The Incomparable

267: I Read It All


00:00:00   the incontrovertible number 267 October [TS]

00:00:10   welcome back everybody to the [TS]

00:00:12   incomparable i'm your host Jason L we [TS]

00:00:13   are reconvening our book club this [TS]

00:00:16   episode we're going to be talking about [TS]

00:00:18   two books one by paolo bacigalupi it's [TS]

00:00:23   called the water knife and another final [TS]

00:00:26   Stephenson which is called seven Eve's [TS]

00:00:28   these are authors we've talked about [TS]

00:00:30   before in previous episodes you can look [TS]

00:00:32   at poor in the show notes perhaps if i'm [TS]

00:00:34   not too lazy to talk about these two [TS]

00:00:36   novels of the of a science-fiction [TS]

00:00:38   nature i have four human beings who are [TS]

00:00:43   not robots that we know Lisa Schmeisser [TS]

00:00:46   not a robot hi Lisa [TS]

00:00:48   hi how are you I'm doing fine and I'm [TS]

00:00:50   doing fine [TS]

00:00:51   David jail or probably not a mandroid [TS]

00:00:54   possibly possibly that's awesome [TS]

00:00:57   serenity Caldwell good dad good to hear [TS]

00:01:00   your voice your human voice yes I am NOT [TS]

00:01:03   a robot more than I don't believe you [TS]

00:01:06   and the the most of all of the creatures [TS]

00:01:09   I've met in my travels his is the most [TS]

00:01:11   human it is Scott McNulty hello hello [TS]

00:01:16   thanks i got your Star Trek reference in [TS]

00:01:21   there i hope you can appreciate that [TS]

00:01:23   yes I was gonna do the robot voice but [TS]

00:01:25   then rendered it and I was like well I [TS]

00:01:26   don't need to do it now it's always [TS]

00:01:29   being left both of these books are about [TS]

00:01:30   robots nope they're not at all not even [TS]

00:01:32   a little [TS]

00:01:33   they're not even there are a lot of [TS]

00:01:36   robot 30 well there are main room bar or [TS]

00:01:38   not they're not like sent you not think [TS]

00:01:41   yeah then I me Ryan Lee Johnston [TS]

00:01:44   syracuse would probably say that they're [TS]

00:01:46   not robots that is a different podcast [TS]

00:01:49   all right we should start with the water [TS]

00:01:51   knife i think i would like to start [TS]

00:01:53   there and then and then we will whatever [TS]

00:01:55   time we have left will be devoted to the [TS]

00:01:56   eighty thousand pages of the latest you [TS]

00:01:58   know steve is a novel is certain is that [TS]

00:02:01   first third so the water knife is a is a [TS]

00:02:06   shorter book than 70 use i'm told that [TS]

00:02:09   the hard lately is about 370 pages long [TS]

00:02:11   I right yeah Kendall Paul bacigalupi [TS]

00:02:14   we've talked about him before he wrote [TS]

00:02:15   the windup girl which I thought was [TS]

00:02:17   really excellent he wrote a couple of [TS]

00:02:19   really good albeit depressing why a [TS]

00:02:21   novel that we talked about Scott and I [TS]

00:02:23   think maybe we talked about those we did [TS]

00:02:26   the agency together on an episode and [TS]

00:02:29   now I had I had to miss an episode that [TS]

00:02:30   was traveling I was so bummed [TS]

00:02:32   yeah so should bring her in the ground [TS]

00:02:33   cities both III really highly recommend [TS]

00:02:35   ship breaker and and John cities is just [TS]

00:02:38   more depressing but also good just [TS]

00:02:40   depressing very good so yeah so I'm as [TS]

00:02:42   somebody who is a resident of california [TS]

00:02:44   i can tell you especially the water [TS]

00:02:46   knife for portrays a future in which the [TS]

00:02:50   desert southwest of the United States is [TS]

00:02:52   a horribly short on water water has [TS]

00:02:56   become incredibly valuable and [TS]

00:02:58   essentially the US government has [TS]

00:03:00   abdicated a lot of their [TS]

00:03:01   responsibilities over the border [TS]

00:03:03   disputes between the various powers in [TS]

00:03:06   the region that there is a there there [TS]

00:03:08   you know there still is a US government [TS]

00:03:10   and all of that but they're kind of not [TS]

00:03:12   going to get involved in nevada and [TS]

00:03:14   california and arizona and and other [TS]

00:03:17   parts of the Southwest squabbling over [TS]

00:03:20   who gets the water rights and who has [TS]

00:03:23   water and who is going with and what [TS]

00:03:24   cities are going to essentially shut [TS]

00:03:26   down and crumble into dust because they [TS]

00:03:28   don't have enough water and that is the [TS]

00:03:30   that is the the backdrop for the water [TS]

00:03:33   knife power but you're loopy is notable [TS]

00:03:34   for writing about about econ ecology and [TS]

00:03:38   Atmospheric stuff and and climate change [TS]

00:03:41   and stuff like that it's a UH the the [TS]

00:03:44   what-is-it the windup girl takes place [TS]

00:03:47   in a in a mostly drowned Southeast Asia [TS]

00:03:51   with some dykes and stuff and it's a [TS]

00:03:54   similar kind of situation in the in [TS]

00:03:57   those two why a book set in a in a kind [TS]

00:04:00   of post sealevel rise dystopia this is a [TS]

00:04:03   different world [TS]

00:04:04   it's not about sea level rise here but [TS]

00:04:07   it is still about climate change i've [TS]

00:04:08   heard people refer to this as Clive I [TS]

00:04:10   which I do not like do not [TS]

00:04:13   let's let's never say that again i just [TS]

00:04:15   i'm putting it out there and then we're [TS]

00:04:17   going to be to death and it will never [TS]

00:04:19   escape so and I assume this backdrop is [TS]

00:04:22   a story about a guy who is working for [TS]

00:04:25   the head of the water agency in Las [TS]

00:04:27   Vegas he is the titular water knife [TS]

00:04:30   he's basically a thug an assassin in the [TS]

00:04:33   employ of the water agency and then [TS]

00:04:36   there's also a plucky reporter named [TS]

00:04:38   Lucy Monroe who who has sort of [TS]

00:04:42   accidentally found herself in phoenix as [TS]

00:04:44   its in its death throes and and then [TS]

00:04:47   they they may meet along with uh refugee [TS]

00:04:50   from Texas because Texas is basically [TS]

00:04:52   following entirely apart [TS]

00:04:54   Maria and and they fight crime know that [TS]

00:04:56   doesn't happen but this is the this is [TS]

00:05:00   this is your story it is the water knife [TS]

00:05:02   it's all about the terrible things that [TS]

00:05:05   happen in phoenix arizona AZ it's [TS]

00:05:07   basically falling apart because it has [TS]

00:05:09   no water that's my summary of the water [TS]

00:05:12   knife what people think of this one [TS]

00:05:15   Lisa you're a resident of California [TS]

00:05:17   yeah I don't know if this happened for [TS]

00:05:19   anybody else but the first time you got [TS]

00:05:21   up to wash your hands get a drink of [TS]

00:05:22   water while reading after reading this [TS]

00:05:24   book did you think to yourself my god [TS]

00:05:26   what a miracle that we can just turn on [TS]

00:05:27   the tap and the water comes out I should [TS]

00:05:28   have a bowl under the under my want [TS]

00:05:31   Molly wash my hands and then use that to [TS]

00:05:32   water this plant which is what we do [TS]

00:05:35   actually being a cat a fellow [TS]

00:05:36   Californian we all the again as jason [TS]

00:05:41   has said we're both in California it's [TS]

00:05:43   suffering a huge you know once and 500 [TS]

00:05:45   every years type of drought and so in my [TS]

00:05:49   house we already do the thing where we [TS]

00:05:51   use every bit of water we have and and [TS]

00:05:53   I've got a great water system now for [TS]

00:05:54   watering the plants blah blah blah but [TS]

00:05:57   what I when I read this I kept thinking [TS]

00:05:59   well we should send copies of this to [TS]

00:06:02   you know people and people are utilities [TS]

00:06:04   and policymakers because one of the [TS]

00:06:06   things i thought one thing that was [TS]

00:06:08   phenomenal because i read this [TS]

00:06:09   back-to-back with seven Eve's and [TS]

00:06:11   there's a part in seven teams where the [TS]

00:06:13   neil degrasse tyson character who will [TS]

00:06:14   get to later [TS]

00:06:15   is all well you know one thing is a [TS]

00:06:18   tragedy but when entire planet goes [TS]

00:06:20   kablooey you just you can't you can't [TS]

00:06:23   get a your you can't wrap your brain on [TS]

00:06:24   the scope and [TS]

00:06:25   in this case like them the genius of the [TS]

00:06:27   water knife is the closer look because [TS]

00:06:30   you do have Maria who's this teenager [TS]

00:06:32   refugee from California eventually from [TS]

00:06:35   Texas who over the course the entire [TS]

00:06:36   novel she typifies what happens to [TS]

00:06:40   people who become refugees and are in [TS]

00:06:42   and are driven to rely on themselves far [TS]

00:06:44   before they have to and what I really [TS]

00:06:48   loved about the book was the way it [TS]

00:06:50   shows how Lucy gets too close to the [TS]

00:06:53   story and in doing so becomes utterly [TS]

00:06:56   unable to understand and see what would [TS]

00:06:58   drive somebody like Maria because they [TS]

00:07:00   have a climactic confrontation the very [TS]

00:07:02   end I loved on Hell's quasi Redemption [TS]

00:07:06   arc and the reason is a quasi Redemption [TS]

00:07:09   arc is because he's going to hop in a [TS]

00:07:10   helicopter and go back to Catherine case [TS]

00:07:12   who's the the headwater agency in Las [TS]

00:07:15   Vegas yeah i mean of the queen of las [TS]

00:07:17   vegas NV yeah I mean she was briefly [TS]

00:07:19   trying to kill him when she thought he [TS]

00:07:20   was betraying her but like now that [TS]

00:07:21   they've worked out that understanding [TS]

00:07:23   he's gonna talk he's going to toss Maria [TS]

00:07:24   and this helicopter and the last thing [TS]

00:07:26   he says to her in the book is Catherine [TS]

00:07:28   cases going to love you and I felt like [TS]

00:07:30   that book was saying right there okay [TS]

00:07:31   she's gonna be a water knife interesting [TS]

00:07:33   to be great at it because she's looking [TS]

00:07:34   at the world in a way that almost nobody [TS]

00:07:37   else can she doesn't remember a priest [TS]

00:07:38   shortage time and that kinda reminds me [TS]

00:07:41   of the Emily st. John mandals station [TS]

00:07:43   eleven when they're talking about the [TS]

00:07:46   before and the after and one of the [TS]

00:07:47   observations that one of the characters [TS]

00:07:49   makes is if you were a child you really [TS]

00:07:51   don't remember what if you were a child [TS]

00:07:52   in the world you know depopulated you [TS]

00:07:54   really don't remember electricity or [TS]

00:07:56   medicine or anything like that so you [TS]

00:07:57   don't miss it too much and Maria's case [TS]

00:08:00   she's very young she really doesn't [TS]

00:08:01   remember life before like she has these [TS]

00:08:03   big impressions of all the stuff that [TS]

00:08:05   she no longer has but she's like no this [TS]

00:08:08   is the world and she talks a lot about [TS]

00:08:10   old eyes looking at the world and old [TS]

00:08:11   eyes where this is the way the world [TS]

00:08:12   used to be we can get back to versus [TS]

00:08:14   looking at the world as it is now and [TS]

00:08:16   what i thought was the same thing i [TS]

00:08:19   thought at the end of the drowned cities [TS]

00:08:21   which was you know the drowsies explain [TS]

00:08:23   how people become child soldiers in [TS]

00:08:25   effect these are the circumstances that [TS]

00:08:26   lead to this is what happens this is the [TS]

00:08:28   human cost of the way the world is today [TS]

00:08:30   and you know this book is the same thing [TS]

00:08:32   whether water and it was saying this is [TS]

00:08:33   the this is the human cost of the kind [TS]

00:08:35   of consumption patterns we have going on [TS]

00:08:37   this is what are you guys going to pay [TS]

00:08:39   this so i thought it was an intensely [TS]

00:08:40   moral intensely gripping read i [TS]

00:08:43   highlighted a buttload of passages [TS]

00:08:44   because he's got a vivid and economical [TS]

00:08:46   way of describing the complete collapse [TS]

00:08:48   of civilization [TS]

00:08:50   no one of my favorite one of my favorite [TS]

00:08:53   phrases was the odd mix of broken Souls [TS]

00:08:56   bleeding hearts and predators who [TS]

00:08:57   occupied the shattered places of the [TS]

00:08:59   world and that that one sentence is just [TS]

00:09:04   so elegant and so economical and says so [TS]

00:09:07   much and it's just the pros in this book [TS]

00:09:10   is excellent in addition to the story [TS]

00:09:11   and i really love and appreciate when [TS]

00:09:13   you can find something where the story [TS]

00:09:16   and the method of delivery are both [TS]

00:09:17   beautiful i'm going to go next to our [TS]

00:09:20   native a native Californian I believe a [TS]

00:09:23   serenity what do you think of this one [TS]

00:09:26   gosh at this book made me think a lot I [TS]

00:09:30   in well it's funny because this book [TS]

00:09:33   came at a time where I i was talking [TS]

00:09:37   with my boyfriend at the time were like [TS]

00:09:39   well do we want to live in the northeast [TS]

00:09:41   forever and maybe I want to move club [TS]

00:09:44   back closer to my parents and we were [TS]

00:09:46   talking like maybe austin and then [TS]

00:09:49   really nice i'm like yes work of fiction [TS]

00:09:55   but there's definitely there's a lot in [TS]

00:09:57   this book to make you think because it's [TS]

00:10:00   not it's not necessarily yes this is [TS]

00:10:02   happening tomorrow but it's definitely [TS]

00:10:04   this is a version of a future that could [TS]

00:10:06   potentially happen and yes water rates [TS]

00:10:09   are thing which is something that I [TS]

00:10:10   didn't actually realize until after the [TS]

00:10:12   book i went kind of diggin being like is [TS]

00:10:14   this actually yeah he says just the book [TS]

00:10:19   for me again I i love all of how do you [TS]

00:10:24   see that his lesson about you loopy [TS]

00:10:26   bacigalupi i love all of Paolo [TS]

00:10:28   Bacigalupi stuff I think so you must not [TS]

00:10:30   have read the doubt factor even haha no [TS]

00:10:33   sorry [TS]

00:10:34   I the jacket factory the data factory [TS]

00:10:37   was clearly turned out quickly and it's [TS]

00:10:39   not bad book but I I feel like somebody [TS]

00:10:42   whispered in his ear this sort of book [TS]

00:10:43   could sell well yeah we talked about [TS]

00:10:46   that I want to come out and I like [TS]

00:10:47   everything else he's done [TS]

00:10:49   yes I alright so I'm yeah i love i love [TS]

00:10:52   his climate change-related science [TS]

00:10:54   fiction and i'm going to use the long [TS]

00:10:55   version of that because the short [TS]

00:10:57   acronym is terrible [TS]

00:10:59   I really Lisa in that I his prose is [TS]

00:11:03   chilling but i know in a way that it [TS]

00:11:05   doesn't make you feel completely [TS]

00:11:07   discouraged about the the fate of the [TS]

00:11:09   world or the potential fate of the world [TS]

00:11:11   but it definitely it gets in your brain [TS]

00:11:13   and you think about these things long [TS]

00:11:15   after you've closed the book i mean i [TS]

00:11:17   read that but I read it it's a [TS]

00:11:18   page-turner you know I I probably run it [TS]

00:11:20   straight through and 48 hours maybe less [TS]

00:11:22   but it yet but the certain phrases and [TS]

00:11:28   imagery stuck with me a long time after [TS]

00:11:30   the the hyenas the oh yeah oh my gosh [TS]

00:11:35   yes oh the all of the all of the games [TS]

00:11:38   just it's such a well it's such a [TS]

00:11:41   well-built version of apocalypse because [TS]

00:11:45   it doesn't because it's so close to our [TS]

00:11:47   reality that it doesn't feel so removed [TS]

00:11:50   that we can't identify with it and so [TS]

00:11:52   you can it's it's it's just it's like [TS]

00:11:56   turning the knob just one setting over [TS]

00:11:58   so you look at everything and you're [TS]

00:12:00   like yeah I recognize I recognize this [TS]

00:12:02   but without necessarily being too close [TS]

00:12:06   to home or too far away from home that [TS]

00:12:09   you become desensitized I there's a no [TS]

00:12:12   no it's it's a very special balance that [TS]

00:12:15   he's that he's kind of struck and I i [TS]

00:12:17   really enjoy you know the the plus side [TS]

00:12:22   I and i love the world-building i love [TS]

00:12:24   the stuff we get about the ecology is in [TS]

00:12:25   the essentially the living buildings and [TS]

00:12:29   how those sort of come into play in the [TS]

00:12:31   story [TS]

00:12:32   anybody who's played simcity will [TS]

00:12:34   recognize arcologies from if you baby [TS]

00:12:37   simcity 2000 if you built if you last [TS]

00:12:39   long enough they launched into space [TS]

00:12:41   oh yeah [TS]

00:12:42   you know that that was something that [TS]

00:12:44   was that start percolating through [TS]

00:12:46   architecture movements back in the [TS]

00:12:47   sixties and seven days self-contained [TS]

00:12:49   yes there's actually a structure in the [TS]

00:12:52   southwest call dark asante which was [TS]

00:12:54   meant to be a self-contained ecosystem [TS]

00:12:58   the idea was that good architecture [TS]

00:12:59   combined with ecology could create these [TS]

00:13:01   oasis in the desert and Marcus aunties [TS]

00:13:03   an experiment that's been going on the [TS]

00:13:04   southwestern sometime [TS]

00:13:06   David you live near a river but I'm [TS]

00:13:09   gonna have to well you're not about the [TS]

00:13:10   water knife [TS]

00:13:11   well i was gonna say all of the you know [TS]

00:13:13   thinking about the water being a miracle [TS]

00:13:16   as it comes out of these little faucets [TS]

00:13:18   all over my house I I thought of that [TS]

00:13:20   the last time i went to california and [TS]

00:13:21   when [TS]

00:13:22   oh this is what it's like out here and [TS]

00:13:28   I've been much more conscious let's and [TS]

00:13:29   taking home even though quote-unquote I [TS]

00:13:32   don't have to be and so reading this was [TS]

00:13:36   yeah i mean i'll go along and say that i [TS]

00:13:41   have also liked everything he's written [TS]

00:13:43   i like the doubt factory for what it is [TS]

00:13:45   it's not high heart this is high art [TS]

00:13:49   this is I'm not usually a big fan of [TS]

00:13:51   message fiction and and you know you [TS]

00:13:54   know let's let's [TS]

00:13:55   except for Star Trek i guess but one [TS]

00:13:59   thing i love about his work is that it [TS]

00:14:02   does stick with me and it's just a [TS]

00:14:05   really really well written and [TS]

00:14:07   well-plotted story every time out [TS]

00:14:10   it's a mystery said I mean I think the [TS]

00:14:12   one of the things that even in Star Trek [TS]

00:14:14   you could say is that you need to have a [TS]

00:14:16   good story a good plot that goes along [TS]

00:14:17   with your message and a day that could [TS]

00:14:20   you could say that was the sugar coating [TS]

00:14:21   sometimes what what bacigalupi is doing [TS]

00:14:23   here is you know he's telling he's [TS]

00:14:25   telling a an action adventure story in [TS]

00:14:28   this world where he which allows him to [TS]

00:14:32   tell us about it let's imagine a [TS]

00:14:35   Southwest with these crippling water [TS]

00:14:38   deficiencies and what the politics would [TS]

00:14:41   be in what the social ramifications [TS]

00:14:43   would be that's but you know then I'm [TS]

00:14:46   going to tell a story about this guy and [TS]

00:14:49   and these two women and what happens [TS]

00:14:51   with them and [TS]

00:14:52   and there's you know and there's action [TS]

00:14:54   there is and there's adventure and [TS]

00:14:56   there's excitement and there's some [TS]

00:14:57   crazy sci-fi kind of things in there but [TS]

00:15:00   you know but that's it's you know it is [TS]

00:15:03   i think well done in the sense that that [TS]

00:15:05   the the I the message isn't it is the [TS]

00:15:08   plot but it isn't the plot it's more [TS]

00:15:09   than that if it was just a message was [TS]

00:15:11   just discreet about the environment I [TS]

00:15:13   think it wouldn't be that it wouldn't be [TS]

00:15:15   as successful as it is not to tip my [TS]

00:15:17   hand for later but i really i really [TS]

00:15:20   like the the clothes look I don't I [TS]

00:15:23   don't necessarily like the let's see the [TS]

00:15:26   entire you know everything that's going [TS]

00:15:28   on everywhere all over the world hard [TS]

00:15:29   hard to get a lot of perspective when [TS]

00:15:31   you're looking at it from that viewpoint [TS]

00:15:32   and and you don't need it and this this [TS]

00:15:34   is proof that you don't need all of that [TS]

00:15:36   to have an effective story and to end to [TS]

00:15:38   get your points across to get the [TS]

00:15:41   message that you're trying to sell you [TS]

00:15:44   can you can just do it really nicely [TS]

00:15:46   covered entities in Philadelphia he's [TS]

00:15:49   just pouring buckets of water onto the [TS]

00:15:50   street for fun doing that right now like [TS]

00:15:53   about other is set up and i just turned [TS]

00:15:56   on the faucet and throw it out the [TS]

00:15:57   window [TS]

00:15:57   yeah this book has reaffirmed that i [TS]

00:16:00   should stay on the east coast because [TS]

00:16:01   you have plentiful water is usually rain [TS]

00:16:04   in oregon right that there's only in [TS]

00:16:06   fact the scene where they call vancouver [TS]

00:16:08   and they're like its winning [TS]

00:16:10   what is that yes that being said its own [TS]

00:16:13   problems an earthquake land you have [TS]

00:16:15   some ministers maybe we also don't have [TS]

00:16:17   earthquakes over here at the East Coast [TS]

00:16:19   generally of course we'll have one and [TS]

00:16:21   then everyone will die but yeah but to [TS]

00:16:24   philly sports fans i'm really not sure [TS]

00:16:25   that's a true that hurricane hurricane [TS]

00:16:27   only missed you by a little bit so we do [TS]

00:16:29   have her needs we sometimes have too [TS]

00:16:31   much water that is very game learn to [TS]

00:16:32   not mess with us also Eagles fans I feel [TS]

00:16:35   like we can't again about that danger [TS]

00:16:36   index Friedman so so Scott what do you [TS]

00:16:40   think of the water i liked it i read it [TS]

00:16:44   very quickly so that's always a good [TS]

00:16:46   sign [TS]

00:16:46   yeah I enjoyed the fact that it was [TS]

00:16:48   shorter than 70 you soon [TS]

00:16:50   american press that you although it's [TS]

00:16:53   not surprising considering both authors [TS]

00:16:54   I liked all talking about comparing and [TS]

00:16:57   contrasting i like how real the water [TS]

00:17:00   knife felt and plausible and how there [TS]

00:17:03   was so many striking scenes of [TS]

00:17:06   completely different people experiencing [TS]

00:17:10   the same kind of a horrific ecological [TS]

00:17:14   breakdown in so many like the people who [TS]

00:17:15   live in these arcologies it doesn't [TS]

00:17:17   matter because they have a fountain and [TS]

00:17:18   a river and everything's lovely inside [TS]

00:17:21   their little self-contained world but [TS]

00:17:23   then you go outside and there are people [TS]

00:17:24   lining up at a public spigot that they [TS]

00:17:27   have to pay you no money to get their [TS]

00:17:30   water and the prices fluctuate based on [TS]

00:17:33   the market [TS]

00:17:33   yeah there's a scene where now [TS]

00:17:35   malfunctions in advance oh it over Vince [TS]

00:17:37   water and like one of the characters [TS]

00:17:38   feels like she struck it rich because [TS]

00:17:40   she's going to be able to resell this [TS]

00:17:42   water for right Marshall fingers out [TS]

00:17:45   that because it's based on the market so [TS]

00:17:46   there's at 1.22 yeah i was down there is [TS]

00:17:49   nothing [TS]

00:17:50   and so you can quickly she fills up a [TS]

00:17:52   lots of jugs and of course in in this [TS]

00:17:55   book that is a great boon for her but [TS]

00:17:58   immediately it turns into a horrible [TS]

00:17:59   thing because nobody could be happy [TS]

00:18:02   well have you ever seen the wire it's [TS]

00:18:04   pretty much like watching the kids and [TS]

00:18:05   season four of the white attempt [TS]

00:18:07   together terrible situation I mean yeah [TS]

00:18:09   it'sit's uh yeah it was Ursa know that [TS]

00:18:13   that what I enjoyed is I really liked [TS]

00:18:15   what he did to Lucy over the course of [TS]

00:18:17   the book that's our our reporter yeah [TS]

00:18:20   loosies reporter character and there's a [TS]

00:18:23   character who appears very briefly and [TS]

00:18:24   kick starts things off where he tells [TS]

00:18:26   Lucy that her problem is she thinks too [TS]

00:18:27   small and at the end of the book when [TS]

00:18:31   she gets what is essentially the maltese [TS]

00:18:33   falcon of the book the thing everybody [TS]

00:18:35   has been looking for i think everybody [TS]

00:18:36   has been pulling to kill him to die for [TS]

00:18:38   and she gets it she's like with this [TS]

00:18:40   Phoenix can you know control its own [TS]

00:18:42   destiny and like she's all I'm going to [TS]

00:18:45   make sure that Felix isn't hired by this [TS]

00:18:46   and she says this in front of somebody [TS]

00:18:49   who has lost parts of her body her [TS]

00:18:51   parent and her best friend to the way [TS]

00:18:53   Phoenix is now and I thought oh my god [TS]

00:18:56   Lucy you really do like anything it's [TS]

00:18:58   not Lucy thinking small in that case she [TS]

00:19:00   was thinking too big that she missed the [TS]

00:19:01   key details which is that [TS]

00:19:03   there are probably people in Phoenix who [TS]

00:19:04   don't want it to succeed who wants [TS]

00:19:07   desperately to get out of there and will [TS]

00:19:08   do anything to get up there in Lucy lost [TS]

00:19:11   sight of that she was she was chasing [TS]

00:19:12   after the power structures and she kind [TS]

00:19:14   of it was ok to document the desperation [TS]

00:19:16   but I don't think she really realized [TS]

00:19:18   the lengths people would go to to avoid [TS]

00:19:22   prolonging the pain you mentioned the [TS]

00:19:24   MacGuffin here and I it may seem [TS]

00:19:26   ridiculous to people that essentially [TS]

00:19:29   what they're talking about and this [TS]

00:19:30   thing that everybody's fighting and [TS]

00:19:32   dying over is a document about water [TS]

00:19:35   rights from 100 a long time ago and like [TS]

00:19:39   who had the first water rights to [TS]

00:19:40   various watersheds and rivers and that [TS]

00:19:43   may seem ridiculous like will really [TS]

00:19:45   when you've got all these states and [TS]

00:19:46   their national guards and they're [TS]

00:19:47   fighting each other and they're blowing [TS]

00:19:48   up pumping stations and things like that [TS]

00:19:50   what is some quaint old document going [TS]

00:19:52   to mean except if you look at the [TS]

00:19:55   headlines of the mandatory water cuts in [TS]

00:19:57   California right now they're actually [TS]

00:20:00   the age of the water claims is the [TS]

00:20:04   determining factor in whether your farms [TS]

00:20:06   get water or not so this is absolutely [TS]

00:20:08   real as ridiculous as it sounds I think [TS]

00:20:11   it is that ridiculous and yet it is also [TS]

00:20:13   accurate so I thought that was a nice [TS]

00:20:15   touch there that as fact there have been [TS]

00:20:18   reporters who have been documenting the [TS]

00:20:20   Colorado for like the last 15 to 20 [TS]

00:20:21   years and taking a look at who has [TS]

00:20:24   claims where because this is a very real [TS]

00:20:27   thing if you were to cut off the kelp [TS]

00:20:29   that Colorado's water supply [TS]

00:20:31   well above Arizona Utah and Nevada they [TS]

00:20:35   be host and so right now who can draw [TS]

00:20:37   water from calif from the Colorado is a [TS]

00:20:39   really from political process and when [TS]

00:20:41   Arizona starting large-scale spinach [TS]

00:20:43   farming they actually tapped into the [TS]

00:20:45   Colorado to do that and that's about the [TS]

00:20:46   whole political flurry it's a Mike Davis [TS]

00:20:50   wrote a book called city of course which [TS]

00:20:51   is about Los Angeles and how you know it [TS]

00:20:55   the reason it grew is because they stole [TS]

00:20:57   of water rights which you know you can [TS]

00:20:58   learn more about actually much chinatown [TS]

00:21:00   and they talk about how water is life or [TS]

00:21:06   death to the American Southwest and [TS]

00:21:08   there are a lot of people who have a lot [TS]

00:21:10   at stake in making sure that it flows in [TS]

00:21:12   ways that are deeply unnatural for the [TS]

00:21:13   region [TS]

00:21:15   and I I I loved in this book how he had [TS]

00:21:18   clearly done his homework on how the [TS]

00:21:21   battles are fought you know [TS]

00:21:22   bit by bit with ranchers and farmers and [TS]

00:21:25   and where the money flows and how it get [TS]

00:21:27   started it's just such a whole research [TS]

00:21:30   book also we talking about um about this [TS]

00:21:33   being an apocalyptic it is in a way but [TS]

00:21:35   if this is a small apocalypse in the [TS]

00:21:37   sense that it's an apocalypse of a [TS]

00:21:38   region and in fact one of the things [TS]

00:21:40   that he goes to some pains to show is [TS]

00:21:43   that this is a world of haves and [TS]

00:21:45   have-nots and people in the United [TS]

00:21:47   States miss something I think power [TS]

00:21:48   budget hope he does a lot and does very [TS]

00:21:49   well is is a make you understand how [TS]

00:21:53   people in other parts of the world and [TS]

00:21:54   other situations feel by turning the [TS]

00:21:57   tables on on Americans and display and [TS]

00:22:00   showing them in that position because [TS]

00:22:01   you have that this is what you know this [TS]

00:22:03   is what they go [TS]

00:22:04   imagine what it would be like if you did [TS]

00:22:06   this exactly so in this case what we see [TS]

00:22:08   is not only do we see the rain in [TS]

00:22:09   Vancouver and we hear about you know [TS]

00:22:11   things within back east and all that but [TS]

00:22:13   lurking the whole time and we very [TS]

00:22:16   rarely see any instance of it other than [TS]

00:22:18   like people referencing it is the [TS]

00:22:20   monster in the room which is California [TS]

00:22:24   and the implication a California will [TS]

00:22:26   always get what it wants its got the [TS]

00:22:28   people it's got the power it will suck [TS]

00:22:31   you dry if it wants to and everybody in [TS]

00:22:33   this story is scrambling around the [TS]

00:22:36   edges trying not to anger California and [TS]

00:22:38   trying to get enough to survive without [TS]

00:22:40   drawing you know California's I and i [TS]

00:22:42   found that fascinating to that this [TS]

00:22:44   isn't this isn't a you know a story [TS]

00:22:47   about the The you know how California [TS]

00:22:49   steals everybody's water when there's a [TS]

00:22:51   drought this is a story of all the [TS]

00:22:52   people whose water got stolen but and [TS]

00:22:54   how they survive which i think is a [TS]

00:22:56   really nice touch the California is like [TS]

00:22:57   this super scary like the Soviet Union [TS]

00:23:00   and in a spy story in said in the cold [TS]

00:23:03   war where it's like it's just it's out [TS]

00:23:05   there [TS]

00:23:05   Hallie's are ya they are you you know [TS]

00:23:07   the calories are gonna come and then [TS]

00:23:09   it's all the jig is up man it's over [TS]

00:23:10   then I think that's a fascinating little [TS]

00:23:14   touch too and it's funny brought up [TS]

00:23:16   China tent is the first thing I wanted [TS]

00:23:17   to do as soon as they finish was gonna [TS]

00:23:19   watch chinatown [TS]

00:23:20   because it's been you know 15 years [TS]

00:23:21   since i saw it 20 years since i thought [TS]

00:23:23   i was thinking because you talk about [TS]

00:23:25   you Jason you alluded to the gap between [TS]

00:23:26   the rich and the poor and one of the [TS]

00:23:28   things i like about the way mr. B i'm [TS]

00:23:33   just going to one of the things i like [TS]

00:23:36   when mr. B rights is he makes it [TS]

00:23:39   abundantly clear that the technology and [TS]

00:23:41   the g was advances like the arcologies [TS]

00:23:43   have all been developed and designed in [TS]

00:23:46   the service of the from of the elite [TS]

00:23:49   economy and it reminds me a lot of the [TS]

00:23:51   stuff that you seen william gibson novel [TS]

00:23:53   except here there's more of an angry [TS]

00:23:55   activists heart whereas and william [TS]

00:23:57   gibson novels like he can go off for a [TS]

00:23:59   paragraph about somebody's [TS]

00:24:00   super-fantastic flannel shirt and the [TS]

00:24:02   fountain pen they're using and then it's [TS]

00:24:04   like a woman doing jujitsu but here [TS]

00:24:06   instead it's a little eyes fetishized [TS]

00:24:09   and it's definitely more comment on the [TS]

00:24:11   wealth is a lot less fetishize and you [TS]

00:24:13   are aware of the human cost you know [TS]

00:24:15   especially when you've got these these [TS]

00:24:17   these dudes who are supposed to be [TS]

00:24:19   looking for aquifers not finding LOL [TS]

00:24:21   hookers on the company tab and and and [TS]

00:24:23   working that way so it's I like his [TS]

00:24:27   books because i like the angry beating [TS]

00:24:28   heart of them will they feel real [TS]

00:24:30   yeah they don't they don't feel like [TS]

00:24:32   again they don't feel like some fantasy [TS]

00:24:34   world where we're so far removed it's [TS]

00:24:36   like oh that's nice post boxes like Mad [TS]

00:24:38   Max feels like a fantasy world [TS]

00:24:40   yeah it's just like it's so far removed [TS]

00:24:42   from reality that you're like all right [TS]

00:24:44   this is most part how would how would we [TS]

00:24:46   get to that point where it's very clear [TS]

00:24:47   how we get to this point so it did [TS]

00:24:50   everybody had everybody read the [TS]

00:24:52   tamarisk unter which is one of his short [TS]

00:24:54   stories and pump 6i have yeah I cannot [TS]

00:24:57   oh yeah that's a good coat on that's a [TS]

00:24:59   good choice for collection pump six is [TS]

00:25:00   an excellent pump six and other stories [TS]

00:25:02   is an excellent collection all all [TS]

00:25:05   ecosystem and climate change-related I [TS]

00:25:08   believe but that the tamarisk countries [TS]

00:25:11   i believe the short story that kind of [TS]

00:25:12   spurred this this book into action which [TS]

00:25:16   follows basically a a so-called tamarisk [TS]

00:25:19   hunter who basically goes down the [TS]

00:25:21   Colorado striking down tamarisk weeds [TS]

00:25:24   that are sucking the water dried and and [TS]

00:25:28   his interactions [TS]

00:25:29   and his his view or how he sees people [TS]

00:25:33   basically being policed on the wall on [TS]

00:25:35   the Colorado and that that in itself was [TS]

00:25:38   such an interesting snapshot of what [TS]

00:25:42   potential life and then I forget a year [TS]

00:25:45   or two later in the LA Times there was [TS]

00:25:48   something very very similarly mentioning [TS]

00:25:51   you know tamarisks sucking down Colorado [TS]

00:25:54   etc and it was just I don't know I feel [TS]

00:25:56   like he has such a good he has such a [TS]

00:25:59   good eye tap on the sort of the beating [TS]

00:26:03   heart of like what what is vital in [TS]

00:26:05   certain areas and the like the ability [TS]

00:26:09   to just draw out what might be most [TS]

00:26:10   negatively interesting without not [TS]

00:26:12   necessarily saying like this is the [TS]

00:26:14   future [TS]

00:26:15   everything is doomed but if this is the [TS]

00:26:17   worst way that this future could go [TS]

00:26:19   let's dive in deep and look at these [TS]

00:26:22   three people and explode their lives [TS]

00:26:25   basically let's make all of the bad [TS]

00:26:26   things happen and see how humanity [TS]

00:26:28   reacts which is fascinating so i will [TS]

00:26:31   say I another way that this book reminds [TS]

00:26:33   me of william gibson is that after i [TS]

00:26:37   read it i thought i really love the [TS]

00:26:39   world and i really loved the writing and [TS]

00:26:42   as for the plot it is not anything [TS]

00:26:46   special like to me I felt like like [TS]

00:26:49   Gibson and I love Gibson but Gibson's [TS]

00:26:51   plots are pulp crying plots mostly and [TS]

00:26:55   this you know [TS]

00:26:57   yes such they stopped a little better [TS]

00:26:58   something that's exactly and and I want [TS]

00:27:00   and what about with budget loopy I've [TS]

00:27:03   never really felt that way before but [TS]

00:27:05   with this book I felt that way I felt [TS]

00:27:07   like the setting was so rich but like in [TS]

00:27:10   the windup girl the setting is is rich [TS]

00:27:12   but it's also bizarre and in and drowned [TS]

00:27:14   cities i think is setting is as rich and [TS]

00:27:16   it's also super weird [TS]

00:27:18   in some ways water knife I felt like the [TS]

00:27:20   setting was good and then the plot is [TS]

00:27:23   kind of it is a MacGuffin plot it is a [TS]

00:27:26   thug you know and some mysterious like [TS]

00:27:29   people get assassinated and there's a [TS]

00:27:31   the reporter who's on the trail and [TS]

00:27:33   there's the the the poor refugee who's [TS]

00:27:36   put in these terrible situations and [TS]

00:27:37   it's not bad [TS]

00:27:39   but they did I just wanted to say it [TS]

00:27:41   that struck me and I think that's the [TS]

00:27:42   reason that I didn't like it as much as [TS]

00:27:43   some of his other work is not because of [TS]

00:27:45   all the things we've been talking about [TS]

00:27:46   that because I felt like the story [TS]

00:27:49   itself when I got done with it was like [TS]

00:27:51   that part of it yeah you know it's not [TS]

00:27:53   like I've seen that story that's like a [TS]

00:27:55   you know it came off of the plot machine [TS]

00:27:58   I almost like it that what I like I [TS]

00:28:01   almost enjoy the fact that it is [TS]

00:28:03   basically an archetypal story [TS]

00:28:05   I'm shoved into these extraordinary [TS]

00:28:07   circumstances because it a little for me [TS]

00:28:10   at least what I really enjoyed about the [TS]

00:28:12   water knife worthy the small moments in [TS]

00:28:15   there and the the very real humanization [TS]

00:28:18   of these characters whereas the their [TS]

00:28:20   overall arcs may have been fairly [TS]

00:28:21   predictable but the brief it like the [TS]

00:28:24   individual scenes in the way that these [TS]

00:28:26   characters interacted were very very [TS]

00:28:29   interesting on I don't yeah I it is the [TS]

00:28:33   less about the little moments for me in [TS]

00:28:35   this book which I i'm gonna bet you're [TS]

00:28:36   you're you're totally valid and that yes [TS]

00:28:38   it's much more of an archetypal story [TS]

00:28:40   than his other works [TS]

00:28:41   yeah I mean to me it's sort of like that [TS]

00:28:44   lets you focus on the message and the [TS]

00:28:46   character moments and it's the same [TS]

00:28:47   thing with Chinatown where he wanted to [TS]

00:28:50   tell the story about the water rights [TS]

00:28:52   and he came up with this home the war [TS]

00:28:54   storyline to fit into and so that was [TS]

00:28:57   sort of the spoonful of sugar for [TS]

00:28:58   everyone to get the story of the water [TS]

00:29:00   right thing and I think that I think [TS]

00:29:02   that was I almost want to say it's a [TS]

00:29:04   very intentional thing here I'd I think [TS]

00:29:07   that might have been in his brain going [TS]

00:29:09   hey you know I could take that and put [TS]

00:29:11   it into a science-fiction setting with [TS]

00:29:12   these thriller element but he actually [TS]

00:29:15   calls it out [TS]

00:29:16   he calls it out because they talk about [TS]

00:29:17   all the stuff that Lucy reported on and [TS]

00:29:20   got pills for and they point out that [TS]

00:29:22   her most her most dogged and tenacious [TS]

00:29:24   reporting that puts all this together [TS]

00:29:25   was released trafficked work but that's [TS]

00:29:28   not like they make that comment like he [TS]

00:29:30   makes that commentary on the state [TS]

00:29:31   journalism with what gets eyeballs [TS]

00:29:33   versus what gets what should get [TS]

00:29:34   attention when when they talk about the [TS]

00:29:36   most respectable and the best work that [TS]

00:29:38   Lucy did was was unraveling who was [TS]

00:29:40   responsible for drawing out phoenix and [TS]

00:29:42   nobody saw those stories so it's like [TS]

00:29:44   the subtext is text at least one chapter [TS]

00:29:46   there's one other thing i want to [TS]

00:29:47   mention here which is just a funny thing [TS]

00:29:49   that happened a week or two ago Elon [TS]

00:29:52   Musk [TS]

00:29:52   made the the comment about how if [TS]

00:29:56   there's an apocalypse of some sort [TS]

00:29:58   there's no place you want to be other [TS]

00:29:59   than a test love because in the test lab [TS]

00:30:01   there's like super air filters and stuff [TS]

00:30:03   like that and that made me laugh because [TS]

00:30:05   because there is a there are several [TS]

00:30:06   chapters here where we're on how the [TS]

00:30:08   last guys is a is driving around in a [TS]

00:30:11   Tesla and he's got the he goes through a [TS]

00:30:14   dust storm and he's got the filters on [TS]

00:30:16   and all of that and you know that I [TS]

00:30:19   think it's a nice touch because it it [TS]

00:30:21   says it says futuristic while also [TS]

00:30:23   saying not that far in the future [TS]

00:30:25   because it's a test lights recognizable [TS]

00:30:27   and that's kind of funny but then Elon [TS]

00:30:29   Musk comes out and says basically yup [TS]

00:30:31   you wanna you know if there's something [TS]

00:30:33   bad in the air just getting your test [TS]

00:30:34   lights really good for that we just like [TS]

00:30:36   again great i don't have one of those [TS]

00:30:39   are your audience Ilan consider your own [TS]

00:30:42   yeah yeah [TS]

00:30:43   Scott you have anything more to say you [TS]

00:30:45   can you been characteristically quiet [TS]

00:30:48   well I don't want to disappoint my fans [TS]

00:30:50   by actually talking as though made as [TS]

00:30:54   quiet as possible [TS]

00:30:56   well I thought the the book was fairly [TS]

00:30:58   straightforward i enjoyed it i didn't [TS]

00:31:00   think it was high arch as David said but [TS]

00:31:02   I thought it was a fine novel I wouldn't [TS]

00:31:05   read it again because I don't read [TS]

00:31:06   things but uh huh i certainly would read [TS]

00:31:10   another book by paolo bacigalupi but [TS]

00:31:12   apparently not the depth factor don't do [TS]

00:31:13   that one [TS]

00:31:14   no I i would say it's kind of in between [TS]

00:31:16   being the it's not a polemic and it it's [TS]

00:31:21   not like super high art either it's [TS]

00:31:23   summer it's it it's in between it is it [TS]

00:31:25   is it's got a message and it's got a fun [TS]

00:31:27   story and weld them together fairly well [TS]

00:31:29   I didn't react to it like I did when I [TS]

00:31:31   read the windup girl which was wow this [TS]

00:31:33   is amazing i'm going to vote for this [TS]

00:31:34   for the hugo award for best novel which [TS]

00:31:36   I did and it tied for that so it won [TS]

00:31:39   thanks to me I pointed this out [TS]

00:31:41   Paolo Bacigalupi give me a call my votes [TS]

00:31:46   that made the difference anyway if you [TS]

00:31:48   had to reread only one Paolo Bacigalupi [TS]

00:31:50   book i think the window grill is the [TS]

00:31:51   clear choice unless you're a teenager in [TS]

00:31:53   which case it is a ship breaker [TS]

00:31:56   yeah yeah yeahs less depressing in the [TS]

00:31:59   drowned cities [TS]

00:32:00   yeah yeah but you know it comes first [TS]

00:32:02   chronologically in that [TS]

00:32:03   your thoughts here are anything more [TS]

00:32:05   about the water knife before we move on [TS]

00:32:06   to seven Eve's everybody should get all [TS]

00:32:09   right it [TS]

00:32:10   yeah it's fun it's hard it's hard not to [TS]

00:32:12   think about Syrian refugees and he said [TS]

00:32:13   way but yeah it is well set your again [TS]

00:32:15   this is the business the thing in [TS]

00:32:17   drowned cities that he does that he does [TS]

00:32:19   again here is there is nothing that [TS]

00:32:21   makes a stronger point for the plight of [TS]

00:32:23   other people in the world who are in [TS]

00:32:25   terrible situations then reading a story [TS]

00:32:28   where you are the people who are in that [TS]

00:32:30   situation he does that very well and [TS]

00:32:32   it's very last thing the crisis yeah [TS]

00:32:34   alright so we'll move on to seven Eve's [TS]

00:32:40   final Stephenson similar symbols of 800 [TS]

00:32:43   minutes long and internet to the length [TS]

00:32:45   of this seven Eve's is longer in then [TS]

00:32:49   the water knife in that it's 880 pages [TS]

00:32:52   long which for Neal Stephenson is a [TS]

00:32:54   moderately long book it's in novella [TS]

00:32:58   yeah that's as with many long neal [TS]

00:33:01   stephenson books there's a really great [TS]

00:33:03   400-page novel in here that is correct [TS]

00:33:07   so hard Dave day 3 one's Dave once joked [TS]

00:33:12   about tom clancy that that it was [TS]

00:33:13   basically like you know 400 pages of [TS]

00:33:15   submarine porn and you know 50 pages of [TS]

00:33:18   actual of actual story and i have to [TS]

00:33:21   admit that a lot of this book felt that [TS]

00:33:24   way to be too when I thought well if [TS]

00:33:25   I've ever trapped aboard a space station [TS]

00:33:27   and I need to learn how to dhaka module [TS]

00:33:29   in such a way so as I don't below set of [TS]

00:33:31   orbit [TS]

00:33:32   i am now fully equipped to do so it's [TS]

00:33:35   really be like that space station that [TS]

00:33:37   way so i agree with you and we'll come [TS]

00:33:38   back to that but first i will at least [TS]

00:33:40   say what the seventies is seven Eve's is [TS]

00:33:42   a novel in which a mysterious agent that [TS]

00:33:45   is never really describe blows up the [TS]

00:33:47   moon and the moon slowly is coming apart [TS]

00:33:49   and they and scientists realized that [TS]

00:33:51   this isn't just like it's a bummer i [TS]

00:33:53   like the moon it was it was pretty in [TS]

00:33:54   the sky that the man at the moment [TS]

00:33:57   debris is going to fall at similar to [TS]

00:34:00   other apocalypse books that we've read [TS]

00:34:02   perhaps the last policeman is down there [TS]

00:34:04   while this is all going on in a year to [TS]

00:34:08   basically it's going to be what's called [TS]

00:34:10   the white sky which is when all the [TS]

00:34:11   debris is going to basically re-enter or [TS]

00:34:14   interests orbit and [TS]

00:34:16   and the earth is gonna catch on fire and [TS]

00:34:19   it's going to be uninhabitable for [TS]

00:34:20   hundreds of years and I it's the story [TS]

00:34:24   of the people on the International Space [TS]

00:34:27   Station and its successor modules and [TS]

00:34:31   how they try to figure out how to [TS]

00:34:33   survive and keep the human race alive [TS]

00:34:34   even when the earth is going to be [TS]

00:34:36   boiled and that is the premise of 70 [TS]

00:34:40   years it spends most of its time in in [TS]

00:34:43   outer space [TS]

00:34:44   however and we'll get to this there is [TS]

00:34:46   that there is a a a point at which the [TS]

00:34:49   book shifts and then I I've described [TS]

00:34:53   this to several people as being a [TS]

00:34:54   trilogy in one book because it's kind of [TS]

00:34:58   like that there's kind of the what [TS]

00:35:00   happens before humanity is boiled [TS]

00:35:03   there's the we're working in space after [TS]

00:35:05   the earth has boiled in order to try to [TS]

00:35:07   keep everything together and then [TS]

00:35:09   there's the third part which again will [TS]

00:35:10   get to so that 70 was it is widescreen [TS]

00:35:13   there's a lot going on and to lisa's [TS]

00:35:15   point2 just come to that [TS]

00:35:17   yes Neal Stephenson is a very good [TS]

00:35:19   writer and he's very good at making his [TS]

00:35:21   digressions interesting which every time [TS]

00:35:23   he would get me and I'd be like five [TS]

00:35:25   pages and be like damn it Neal [TS]

00:35:26   Stephenson you made this interesting how [TS]

00:35:28   did you do that because this has nothing [TS]

00:35:30   to do with anything [TS]

00:35:31   and why am I reading this you're just [TS]

00:35:32   showing your work but well here's the [TS]

00:35:35   thing but then in this book and I i I'd [TS]

00:35:38   say more than in other books of his [TS]

00:35:40   there were times where I felt like he [TS]

00:35:42   was literally just putting things in [TS]

00:35:44   because he had done the work and those [TS]

00:35:46   were painful [TS]

00:35:47   where was like you know I mean you know [TS]

00:35:49   either he did himself or he hired [TS]

00:35:51   somebody to do the or orbital mechanics [TS]

00:35:52   or to come up with the how the rocket [TS]

00:35:55   needs to fire in order to go in this [TS]

00:35:57   orbit out of the Lagrange point we've [TS]

00:35:59   got a lot about Lagrange points and get [TS]

00:36:01   to the comment that we're going to bring [TS]

00:36:03   back and all of that and that was you [TS]

00:36:05   know those are the bad kind of [TS]

00:36:06   digressions I can support you know [TS]

00:36:08   what's really funny to me is that I [TS]

00:36:10   actually found the digressions in this [TS]

00:36:11   book far less annoying than readii his [TS]

00:36:14   previous novel of although i think what [TS]

00:36:17   I honest [TS]

00:36:17   well do you fuck do you find orbital [TS]

00:36:19   orbital mechanics more interesting than [TS]

00:36:21   the mechanics of guns [TS]

00:36:22   yeah with like I'm going to say that my [TS]

00:36:25   image garden space probably biases b2b [TS]

00:36:29   like i don't i know nothing about [TS]

00:36:30   orbital mechanics and i do not have the [TS]

00:36:32   math to make have orbital mechanics [TS]

00:36:34   makes sense but the digressions although [TS]

00:36:37   again towards third part got a little [TS]

00:36:39   crazy in the first two parts i actually [TS]

00:36:42   didn't mind it because it was very much [TS]

00:36:44   like yeah I want to know how we're gonna [TS]

00:36:46   solve this problem this impossible [TS]

00:36:48   problem that is impossible to solve [TS]

00:36:50   yeah I want to know about the crazy [TS]

00:36:51   lottery process for sending people up [TS]

00:36:53   from every country and going to visit [TS]

00:36:56   some obscure i forget what I think Asian [TS]

00:37:00   country that they go and visit is it [TS]

00:37:03   bhutan yeah baton sorry I'm when you [TS]

00:37:07   know they're picking the visual [TS]

00:37:08   distributes for the Hunger Games I mean [TS]

00:37:10   yeah but rain [TS]

00:37:12   yeah volunteer yeah but no I'm engine [TS]

00:37:17   you this is two very good halves and [TS]

00:37:21   then a third part i wait [TS]

00:37:24   oh very good have so that I liked her [TS]

00:37:27   better [TS]

00:37:27   look man again well she had an accident [TS]

00:37:30   so book axis 4.0 the trillions what [TS]

00:37:34   you're saying there's two weeks the [TS]

00:37:35   trilogy seriously I don't see it as a [TS]

00:37:38   trilogy I see it as one really long book [TS]

00:37:41   and then a weird epilogue that just goes [TS]

00:37:43   on a weird a novel way [TS]

00:37:45   epilogue not even novelist enough fella [TS]

00:37:48   it's just weird and I think that's why [TS]

00:37:50   I'm gonna run come back and tell dave [TS]

00:37:53   and reminders kinda like everyday get to [TS]

00:37:55   know [TS]

00:37:55   and ya know if it so so what we're [TS]

00:37:58   talking about it again if if you don't [TS]

00:38:00   want to be well don't listen to podcast [TS]

00:38:02   with my god what are you doing I'm i [TS]

00:38:04   haven't read all 880 pages yet what is [TS]

00:38:06   good as I'm as i'm reading seven Eve's [TS]

00:38:09   I'm thinking to myself there is no way [TS]

00:38:13   that Neal Stephenson is not going to be [TS]

00:38:15   able to write 5,000 years later there's [TS]

00:38:19   no way you've set up this thing where [TS]

00:38:21   they're going to wait five thousand [TS]

00:38:22   years in order to find out if there's [TS]

00:38:24   anybody left alive on earth no writer [TS]

00:38:26   gets going to set that up and not be [TS]

00:38:27   able to pull the trigger and paying off [TS]

00:38:29   so I was well prepared for that moment [TS]

00:38:31   and then there was and i'm like 'i up [TS]

00:38:34   and then we enter the the final phase of [TS]

00:38:38   the book which is a wholly different set [TS]

00:38:40   of characters but descended from the [TS]

00:38:42   characters we know and they have crazy [TS]

00:38:44   adventures on a repop gradually [TS]

00:38:47   repopulating the earth with its own [TS]

00:38:49   showing the research of like how do we [TS]

00:38:51   get the ring to be there in the city is [TS]

00:38:52   in moving explain how that works [TS]

00:38:54   any thoughts about that part of the bow [TS]

00:38:56   madness the part of the last third that [TS]

00:38:59   I like all the crazy giant machines what [TS]

00:39:02   annoyed me and this is a spoiler is that [TS]

00:39:04   people actually survived on the earth [TS]

00:39:07   and it crazily it's the people that were [TS]

00:39:10   on the earth before that we're talking [TS]

00:39:11   to the people on the face that survived [TS]

00:39:13   what oh my gosh you're not completely [TS]

00:39:15   Telegraph for the whole book I mean it [TS]

00:39:17   was like telling IMA submarine we are [TS]

00:39:20   going deeper [TS]

00:39:21   I can't tell you anymore it's a secret [TS]

00:39:23   Shh but we are going deeper and then [TS]

00:39:25   well it's my selfie we are going in [TS]

00:39:27   caves we will close the door in the [TS]

00:39:29   caves look for us later and then do they [TS]

00:39:32   meet the the descendants of the cave [TS]

00:39:35   people and the submarine people [TS]

00:39:36   yeah yes ok so you know what it's it's [TS]

00:39:41   crazy escape of science fiction and I [TS]

00:39:43   don't you know whatever my the the [TS]

00:39:46   biggest tragedy for me and get mega [TS]

00:39:48   spoiler is that our cave friends are [TS]

00:39:51   theoretically descended from Dinah [TS]

00:39:54   character in the story her father who [TS]

00:39:58   have been basically introduced to and in [TS]

00:40:00   fact one of the motion most emotional [TS]

00:40:02   parts at least for me of a book [TS]

00:40:05   and yeah the the more sources whether [TS]

00:40:07   when they're just saying when they're [TS]

00:40:09   saying yeah cute security of my god i [TS]

00:40:11   was i was doing on that but she sent me [TS]

00:40:14   a little more code messages to her [TS]

00:40:15   father from the space station and the [TS]

00:40:18   earth is slowly accepting fire [TS]

00:40:20   yeah exactly and that was such a [TS]

00:40:22   wonderful moment and they build up Rufus [TS]

00:40:24   to be this wonderful human-like very [TS]

00:40:28   human essence of like old world humanity [TS]

00:40:31   and then 5,000 years later [TS]

00:40:34   yeah his descendants are all the worst [TS]

00:40:36   of old-world humanity and assholes and [TS]

00:40:38   probably rape their children and you [TS]

00:40:41   know do horrible things to their young [TS]

00:40:42   women and men people after the [TS]

00:40:44   encyclopedia [TS]

00:40:44   it was just it it felt so like such a [TS]

00:40:48   betrayal of that of that character and [TS]

00:40:51   that family relationship and what I had [TS]

00:40:53   pictured of that family relationship for [TS]

00:40:55   the first thousand pages of the book [TS]

00:40:58   that I that I almost stopped reading at [TS]

00:41:00   that point because i was just like no [TS]

00:41:02   this is you know what I don't care that [TS]

00:41:04   you're going to bring the bring [TS]

00:41:05   descendants back fine whatever it's the [TS]

00:41:07   it's fantasy but to to ruin that carrot [TS]

00:41:11   I don't know it felt like it felt like [TS]

00:41:12   ruining that that arc it felt like no [TS]

00:41:16   sorry if you go into a cave the bad [TS]

00:41:18   people when the end although he did try [TS]

00:41:21   to explain or mansplain depending on [TS]

00:41:24   your Christmas did try to explain away [TS]

00:41:26   by saying listen when you're in a cave [TS]

00:41:27   with limited resources you have to [TS]

00:41:29   become fanatical about reproduction and [TS]

00:41:31   the only way to do that is to establish [TS]

00:41:32   a totalitarian regime and treat people's [TS]

00:41:35   fertility like a community like the [TS]

00:41:36   communal resource and I thought to [TS]

00:41:39   myself that is one way of doing it yes [TS]

00:41:42   but you don't like serenity I thought [TS]

00:41:45   it's disappointing that humanity on the [TS]

00:41:48   grounds on the ground find you seem to [TS]

00:41:51   devolve to to this the stark patriarchal [TS]

00:41:54   tribalism where was his first ask [TS]

00:41:56   questions later I found myself wishing [TS]

00:41:58   that perhaps instead of like touching [TS]

00:42:01   down in Alaska [TS]

00:42:02   Oh quelle coincidence deines descendants [TS]

00:42:06   like it would have been interesting to [TS]

00:42:08   see if some other miners in other parts [TS]

00:42:10   of the world that are famous for their [TS]

00:42:11   mining industries would have had the [TS]

00:42:12   same idea and then you would have been [TS]

00:42:14   dealing with people who didn't have that [TS]

00:42:16   cultural and genetic connect [TS]

00:42:17   action because a lot what I thought so I [TS]

00:42:21   really just like a lot of part 34 a lot [TS]

00:42:23   of reasons but one of the things I [TS]

00:42:24   thought was fascinating was how they had [TS]

00:42:25   basically made a religion of the seven [TS]

00:42:27   Eve's by ceaselessly looping the footage [TS]

00:42:30   in public places [TS]

00:42:31   Andrea indoctrinating people constantly [TS]

00:42:33   by having them see Stephenson seems to [TS]

00:42:36   labor under the sweet delusion that if [TS]

00:42:38   people only have all the facts they'll [TS]

00:42:40   act reasonably and come to some quarter [TS]

00:42:42   cups or cultural accord and this [TS]

00:42:44   delusion is like on full on display in [TS]

00:42:45   part 3 without sin we can just watch the [TS]

00:42:48   footage we can removal ambiguity and [TS]

00:42:51   everybody comes to some sort of common [TS]

00:42:52   cultural candidates to have these people [TS]

00:42:54   behaved with each other and I I thought [TS]

00:42:57   it was really interesting how facts have [TS]

00:43:00   out how the worship of factual narrative [TS]

00:43:02   has become a religious a religious [TS]

00:43:05   belief system for these people 5,000 [TS]

00:43:07   years hence you know what i find really [TS]

00:43:09   interesting there actually is that I [TS]

00:43:11   think Stephenson is even playing on that [TS]

00:43:14   a little bit because we get a whole we [TS]

00:43:16   get a whole bunch between Dinah and IV [TS]

00:43:18   very early on in the book basically what [TS]

00:43:21   two of the people on the space station [TS]

00:43:22   who become two of the seven Eve's we get [TS]

00:43:27   a whole thing back and forth between [TS]

00:43:28   them about basically being on and have [TS]

00:43:31   it you know there's a there's a [TS]

00:43:32   difference between being on and being [TS]

00:43:34   ourselves and there's a difference then [TS]

00:43:36   when the cameras are on and when the [TS]

00:43:38   station cameras are rolling and when we [TS]

00:43:40   can just talk real talk [TS]

00:43:42   and i love the idea of like I maybe [TS]

00:43:45   maybe it was completely out of his head [TS]

00:43:46   by the time that this was written but to [TS]

00:43:48   me it feels very much like someone [TS]

00:43:50   picking up you know the bachelor a lost [TS]

00:43:55   paradise or something and being like [TS]

00:43:56   this is our religion [TS]

00:43:57   these are our descendants we must listen [TS]

00:43:59   to every single word they say and find [TS]

00:44:02   some meaning i would absolutely read the [TS]

00:44:04   science fiction novel based on that [TS]

00:44:05   premise I would have it would be [TS]

00:44:08   hilarious i would i would read that book [TS]

00:44:11   all I would look at my job doing that [TS]

00:44:13   but wow that sounds phenomenal i want to [TS]

00:44:15   read it now and there are a lot of slide [TS]

00:44:20   touches in there there's a lot of the [TS]

00:44:22   book there are a lot of little things [TS]

00:44:23   that I liked and kinda want to take the [TS]

00:44:24   social but about like I thought it was [TS]

00:44:27   both savage and hilarious when he went [TS]

00:44:30   when the journalist who gets up there [TS]

00:44:33   introduces the idea of quote-unquote [TS]

00:44:34   soft cannibalism because to me that [TS]

00:44:37   seems like exactly the kind of idea that [TS]

00:44:38   gets paddled in vc meetings and startups [TS]

00:44:40   and I thought wow that's a really [TS]

00:44:42   vicious commentary on the whole chatter [TS]

00:44:45   on TV chattering classes thing and and [TS]

00:44:47   the way that poor blockers life ended [TS]

00:44:49   was so that's that is somebody something [TS]

00:44:52   some scores and I mean riveting to read [TS]

00:44:55   don't get me wrong but I'm like I said I [TS]

00:44:58   the big problem I had with part 3 was of [TS]

00:45:02   PTFE is existence of the the deep diving [TS]

00:45:05   species of the pingers that's right and [TS]

00:45:08   that part of its like women are you see [TS]

00:45:10   how how would a bunch of people in a [TS]

00:45:12   submarine have radically altered the [TS]

00:45:13   human genome to the point they would [TS]

00:45:15   have had to over 5,000 years to produce [TS]

00:45:17   what is essentially a race of man seals [TS]

00:45:20   you know God at that guy like that side [TS]

00:45:24   weird [TS]

00:45:25   yeah like the science like I realize [TS]

00:45:27   mind you that you know where this is [TS]

00:45:30   America is a weird thing to snark about [TS]

00:45:32   in in this and especially since genetic [TS]

00:45:35   engineering does play a huge part with [TS]

00:45:38   the the races that have descended from [TS]

00:45:40   the seven Eve's but I was like you know [TS]

00:45:42   I don't feel like this is [TS]

00:45:44   well-researched Aurora's carefully [TS]

00:45:46   thought-out as again all the stuff that [TS]

00:45:48   has to do with the space nerdery like [TS]

00:45:50   the space nerdery that is that is stuff [TS]

00:45:53   for you could probably get a boatload of [TS]

00:45:54   NASA people really like no story checks [TS]

00:45:56   out [TS]

00:45:57   um but when it came to the genetic [TS]

00:45:59   engineering on there's almost no [TS]

00:46:02   explanation for for any of it and that [TS]

00:46:05   kind of bug because i thought you're [TS]

00:46:06   talking about fundamentally altering a [TS]

00:46:08   human genome and you're talking about a [TS]

00:46:10   very small group of of raw material to [TS]

00:46:13   begin with and it's like I can't make it [TS]

00:46:16   work in my head I can't suspend [TS]

00:46:18   disbelief for it i think one of the [TS]

00:46:20   problems with this book is that it's i'm [TS]

00:46:23   not convinced that any of its science is [TS]

00:46:25   anything but ridiculous which makes it a [TS]

00:46:27   lot harder to sit through the downloads [TS]

00:46:29   the fact the idea that we're going to [TS]

00:46:31   take kind of a retrofitted International [TS]

00:46:33   Space Station and just put a bunch of [TS]

00:46:35   stuff up there and people are totally [TS]

00:46:37   going to figure out how to survive in [TS]

00:46:39   space without any contact with earth for [TS]

00:46:41   5,000 years [TS]

00:46:43   no that's not gonna work it's not gonna [TS]

00:46:46   work and and he didn't prove to me [TS]

00:46:48   anything that would suggest that it does [TS]

00:46:49   it would work [TS]

00:46:51   it's sort of like lots of waving of the [TS]

00:46:53   hands like no no we're resourceful we'll [TS]

00:46:55   figure it out like now I don't think [TS]

00:46:57   anything you provided here would really [TS]

00:46:59   legitimately work and then the fact that [TS]

00:47:02   that by the time you get to the midpoint [TS]

00:47:04   of the book almost everybody has died [TS]

00:47:07   already kind of love that actually like [TS]

00:47:10   that's the part that feels very [TS]

00:47:12   realistic sure horrible but then [TS]

00:47:13   everybody does this bien price and yes [TS]

00:47:16   and no you don't get to space to get a [TS]

00:47:18   nice burgundy comes back having died for [TS]

00:47:20   rectal bleeding [TS]

00:47:21   oh yeah that's a little i thought that [TS]

00:47:23   was kind of cool when the Elon Musk [TS]

00:47:24   analog goes to a comet and brings it [TS]

00:47:28   back but I got a lot comment yeah for [TS]

00:47:30   the other grass Tyson gets the space [TS]

00:47:32   cancer [TS]

00:47:33   yeah everybody gets the space cancer [TS]

00:47:35   except for except for the Carly Fiorina [TS]

00:47:37   stand injustice a bolt through the [TS]

00:47:40   tongue so there is any old deGrasse [TS]

00:47:44   Tyson analog yeah in here the daughter [TS]

00:47:47   here's a good kid alright so this is the [TS]

00:47:49   thing that has been bugging me about [TS]

00:47:49   this book ever since I right and can I [TS]

00:47:51   talk about with you like they have they [TS]

00:47:53   have a son i have the summit of the [TS]

00:47:55   seven Eve's the the seven women who are [TS]

00:47:57   literally that the last of the human [TS]

00:47:59   race out in space [TS]

00:48:00   one of them is patently insane [TS]

00:48:03   yes and and one of them is just an evil [TS]

00:48:06   woman who is whoo-hoo-hoo let's face it [TS]

00:48:09   basically precipitated the crisis that [TS]

00:48:12   they find themselves and now thanks to [TS]

00:48:13   her like breaking the crater lake accord [TS]

00:48:15   and causing a cosmic incident and then [TS]

00:48:18   causing the insurrection that causes [TS]

00:48:19   them to lose all their germplasm blah [TS]

00:48:21   why on earth would you let these to [TS]

00:48:23   reproduce like why didn't anyone like [TS]

00:48:25   just without the space gun at that point [TS]

00:48:28   and go right you're out boom boom [TS]

00:48:29   okay we got five of us here let's run [TS]

00:48:31   the numbers like I just do not get the [TS]

00:48:34   point [TS]

00:48:34   why do not kill Peeta and Julia when you [TS]

00:48:37   get the chance what is the point to keep [TS]

00:48:39   him around again wouldn't have a [TS]

00:48:41   palindrome you [TS]

00:48:42   well that's true but also there were [TS]

00:48:44   what their eight there's one person who [TS]

00:48:45   was too old to me yeah i mean he's right [TS]

00:48:48   so that means they think they're the [TS]

00:48:49   last eight humans in the universe and [TS]

00:48:53   even if two of them are not so great a [TS]

00:48:56   that's that's a quarter of the human [TS]

00:48:58   race right that you're just gonna kill [TS]

00:48:59   tonight improving the species [TS]

00:49:02   well yeah I mean that the holistic way [TS]

00:49:05   of looking at it and I do think I do [TS]

00:49:07   think there's a very valid point there [TS]

00:49:08   especially when we do flash 5,000 years [TS]

00:49:11   later it's like oh yeah these guys [TS]

00:49:12   stealing my and everybody more [TS]

00:49:15   interesting with yeah that's right of [TS]

00:49:17   course it's an it's a rice it's a race [TS]

00:49:19   bread of the aggressors and cannibals [TS]

00:49:21   when you expect like I am all for nature [TS]

00:49:24   over nurture over nature and all of that [TS]

00:49:26   but yeah I the only way i can [TS]

00:49:30   rationalize it is Scott's thing where [TS]

00:49:32   it's like these like these women as [TS]

00:49:34   crazy as they are have been through so [TS]

00:49:37   much together that there's just there's [TS]

00:49:39   a at this point and line in the sand I [TS]

00:49:41   mean Dinah's pretty much ready to blow [TS]

00:49:43   everybody up at the end anyway I just be [TS]

00:49:45   like I we don't we don't deserve it [TS]

00:49:48   yeah and that would have been an [TS]

00:49:50   interesting thing if but then what that [TS]

00:49:52   does is 5,000 years later like the [TS]

00:49:54   people come out of there came an Alaskan [TS]

00:49:56   like crap nobody has bothered prepping [TS]

00:49:58   the atmosphere that last two tests and [TS]

00:49:59   here's real steel hose to go back inside [TS]

00:50:03   and your eyes the encyclopedia is my [TS]

00:50:05   love sonar tax law so our tracks Liza [TS]

00:50:08   door so that I anyways he's probably [TS]

00:50:11   been raped by the creepy Bollman yeah [TS]

00:50:13   but she's found true love with ms yeah [TS]

00:50:15   and as and has a companion deep [TS]

00:50:18   knowledge of many subjects between smt [TS]

00:50:21   yeah between sonar in tax on her hand up [TS]

00:50:25   it was interesting how they balanced out [TS]

00:50:27   the devolution from a written culture to [TS]

00:50:29   an oral culture to I thought I thought [TS]

00:50:30   that part was pretty I was like okay [TS]

00:50:32   maybe maybe the acceptance dr. [TS]

00:50:34   communication scholar because they're [TS]

00:50:35   there are significant cognitive [TS]

00:50:37   differences in language differences [TS]

00:50:39   between oral cultures and written [TS]

00:50:41   cultures and how you transmit pass [TS]

00:50:43   information down he got that right part [TS]

00:50:46   of my beef and I i just put this on [TS]

00:50:47   Twitter chatter is Sharia stepper wrote [TS]

00:50:50   this fantastic book back in 1996 called [TS]

00:50:52   Gibbons decline and fall which science [TS]

00:50:56   fiction as with a lot of her books [TS]

00:50:57   reproductive freedom is one of the [TS]

00:50:59   predominant platico through it and at [TS]

00:51:02   the end the protagonist is handed six [TS]

00:51:05   different color vials [TS]

00:51:07   and said ok you can figure out how to [TS]

00:51:09   guarantee the reproduction of the [TS]

00:51:10   species one it's business as usual usual [TS]

00:51:12   to its parthenogenesis three and and the [TS]

00:51:16   ideas that she has to pick the future of [TS]

00:51:18   the species and I I couldn't stop [TS]

00:51:20   thinking about that scene in that book [TS]

00:51:22   during that the summit of the seven [TS]

00:51:24   Eve's plus Louisa because i thought wow [TS]

00:51:26   this was done a lot better by Carrie [TS]

00:51:29   temper 20 years or so and that was [TS]

00:51:33   enough actually points to another [TS]

00:51:35   problem i have with the whole oh and [TS]

00:51:37   here's how we manage to five thousand [TS]

00:51:39   years of culture in our little space [TS]

00:51:40   structures and we now have what amounts [TS]

00:51:43   to the US and Soviet relations and so on [TS]

00:51:45   and so forth is um John Varley who we [TS]

00:51:47   have discussed in earlier apocalypse [TS]

00:51:50   type book clubs back in the seventies [TS]

00:51:53   John Varley what a novel called the OPG [TS]

00:51:55   hotline and the premise was that a bunch [TS]

00:51:59   of aliens watched how humans were [TS]

00:52:01   treating other species and said okay [TS]

00:52:03   right we're on the dolphins and the [TS]

00:52:04   Whale side here and then managed to a [TS]

00:52:07   neutralize all human technology to [TS]

00:52:09   attempt to cleanse the earth of humans [TS]

00:52:11   and the only people who could the only [TS]

00:52:15   the only people who survived four people [TS]

00:52:16   on a space station and they colonize the [TS]

00:52:19   column is the moon and then Charlie has [TS]

00:52:23   a whole host of short stories and a [TS]

00:52:24   couple more novels about Lunar Society [TS]

00:52:27   lunar culture and they are fantastically [TS]

00:52:31   thought out from a sociological [TS]

00:52:32   perspective and it culminates in the [TS]

00:52:34   novel steel Beach which talks about the [TS]

00:52:36   depression that people have when you are [TS]

00:52:39   raised in an environment that you simply [TS]

00:52:41   haven't evolved to and I thought well [TS]

00:52:44   you know if they've already got the [TS]

00:52:45   genetic engineering going on with the [TS]

00:52:46   races at the seven Eve's why don't they [TS]

00:52:49   talk a little bit more explicitly about [TS]

00:52:51   what it would take to evolve us to the [TS]

00:52:54   two of all human beings to the point [TS]

00:52:55   where they're totally okay living in a [TS]

00:52:57   world that that literally does not [TS]

00:52:59   paying any of the Paleolithic cuff [TS]

00:53:00   buttons we had installed like there were [TS]

00:53:02   a few illusions here and there with a [TS]

00:53:04   calf to and how she was suffering from [TS]

00:53:06   sensory overload when she was gliding [TS]

00:53:07   around stuff like that but again it felt [TS]

00:53:10   like this question either didn't [TS]

00:53:11   interest him enough to answer or like he [TS]

00:53:14   didn't even think about it and I just [TS]

00:53:15   kept thinking how Farley did this better [TS]

00:53:16   and early too [TS]

00:53:17   earlier and that's not a good sign when [TS]

00:53:19   you're reading an absorbing 900-page [TS]

00:53:21   epic and you like up [TS]

00:53:22   read it read it read it seen them since [TS]

00:53:24   done it's been done better here you know [TS]

00:53:26   about you suggested that you you liked [TS]

00:53:30   the end part so I'm a big fan of space [TS]

00:53:33   opera and so this is you know when [TS]

00:53:35   they're he's talking about these giant [TS]

00:53:37   space rings and I like reading about the [TS]

00:53:40   the hardware which is why i like [TS]

00:53:43   military science fiction because a lot [TS]

00:53:45   of time is spent lavished on hardware [TS]

00:53:46   right there's a lot of that they're so [TS]

00:53:49   there's a lot of that and the third part [TS]

00:53:51   there's a lot of the first and second [TS]

00:53:52   part but that's more you know like [TS]

00:53:53   current technology plus a lot of chain [TS]

00:53:57   physics which I didn't find all having [TS]

00:53:58   fascinating but I think Neal Stephenson [TS]

00:54:01   really find it interesting [TS]

00:54:02   clearly he does so but i thought i liked [TS]

00:54:06   the the first part the most i think when [TS]

00:54:09   they're you know neil degrasse tyson was [TS]

00:54:11   trying to figure out what what it means [TS]

00:54:13   that the moon has exploded and he [TS]

00:54:15   figures that he's horrified that's your [TS]

00:54:17   disaster story right that's your classic [TS]

00:54:19   disaster story parts portion of this [TS]

00:54:21   book [TS]

00:54:22   yes I thought that was the best part if [TS]

00:54:23   I would have but now i'm going to rank [TS]

00:54:25   the parts i agree with the first part [TS]

00:54:26   was the best part the second part was [TS]

00:54:28   the second best part and the third part [TS]

00:54:30   i was the third best part III the third [TS]

00:54:34   hurts me to 5th or 6th best part really [TS]

00:54:36   come yeah I you know I like to I like [TS]

00:54:39   the third part but i think really that [TS]

00:54:42   renders comments about it are right on [TS]

00:54:45   which is I think it's actually more [TS]

00:54:47   problematic when you're thinking about [TS]

00:54:48   the direction it's pointed from the [TS]

00:54:50   first two parts and thinking about the [TS]

00:54:52   the families of these various people i [TS]

00:54:54   thought it was interesting I thought it [TS]

00:54:55   went on too long and had way too much [TS]

00:54:58   detail on how the various objects that [TS]

00:55:01   have been built around the earth work [TS]

00:55:03   but that's again i feel like i like [TS]

00:55:05   everything you did your email Stephenson [TS]

00:55:06   he's just gonna show his work he is [TS]

00:55:10   going to show his work in a lot of ways [TS]

00:55:11   that you don't yeah he doesn't do a [TS]

00:55:13   grocery store list that going to like a [TS]

00:55:14   two-page digression on the mechanics of [TS]

00:55:16   refrigeration and how grocery stores [TS]

00:55:18   came to be because it's an interesting [TS]

00:55:19   story and i like that in general and I [TS]

00:55:25   also i like he so the chain thing I [TS]

00:55:27   thought was annoying but he did thread [TS]

00:55:29   it through the hole [TS]

00:55:30   every part had a part with the chain you [TS]

00:55:33   know they had weapons that were were [TS]

00:55:34   based on that chain thing and part of [TS]

00:55:36   the whole giant megastructures part [TS]

00:55:38   changed so he put it through which I [TS]

00:55:40   appreciated i did still think it was [TS]

00:55:42   annoying but I appreciate the work you [TS]

00:55:44   did you put in there that that's why I [TS]

00:55:46   usually avoid deal Stevenson was at his [TS]

00:55:49   best [TS]

00:55:50   I find him to be a slog so I didn't [TS]

00:55:53   think this was some of his best now and [TS]

00:55:55   I mean justjust contrasting the two [TS]

00:55:57   books the water knife i read in about [TS]

00:56:00   seventy-two hours and this took me about [TS]

00:56:02   two and a half weeks you know about Izzy [TS]

00:56:04   times longer than the white is 80 so but [TS]

00:56:07   actually sitting down saying i have to [TS]

00:56:11   keep reading this because i'm going to [TS]

00:56:13   talk about it and where is put the other [TS]

00:56:15   one was like I want to find out what [TS]

00:56:17   happens and you know again it was you [TS]

00:56:19   know been there done that read that seem [TS]

00:56:22   that you know and and I kept coming back [TS]

00:56:25   to a julienne may if you want to see [TS]

00:56:27   someone handle while families across [TS]

00:56:31   that was memorizing zip years are you to [TS]

00:56:34   get our dynasty yeah oh my god yeah [TS]

00:56:37   those books yeah yeah that's that's good [TS]

00:56:40   stuff [TS]

00:56:40   so this was sort of like oh you came up [TS]

00:56:43   with a palindrome good job I wife and I [TS]

00:56:47   think you're right there is a really [TS]

00:56:48   good novel hidden inside here it is the [TS]

00:56:50   last policeman ok i enjoyed this book [TS]

00:56:55   and I read a couple of interviews with [TS]

00:56:57   Stephenson and he his goal and I think [TS]

00:57:00   that he has a group of science fiction [TS]

00:57:01   authors that he's buddy-buddy with who [TS]

00:57:03   all think that people have lost sight of [TS]

00:57:06   trying to do big challenges and do big [TS]

00:57:09   science so this was kind of his clarion [TS]

00:57:11   call to have big ideas so he wrote this [TS]

00:57:14   big epic swimming thing which I think [TS]

00:57:16   talk speaks a little bit to the fact [TS]

00:57:18   that he kind of the people don't really [TS]

00:57:20   matter because they are banding together [TS]

00:57:21   to solve this giant problem and it's not [TS]

00:57:24   about individuals and I understand you [TS]

00:57:26   know i agree with you Lisa in that the [TS]

00:57:28   stories are of course the most [TS]

00:57:30   interesting when you have a character [TS]

00:57:32   that you kind of feel invested in and [TS]

00:57:34   can humanize but i don't think i think [TS]

00:57:36   it was a conscious decision on his point [TS]

00:57:38   part not to do that at [TS]

00:57:41   or not that makes it good or bad I won't [TS]

00:57:42   yeah I read some interviews right he [TS]

00:57:44   said the same thing he's all yeah I [TS]

00:57:45   wanted to bring back this commitment to [TS]

00:57:47   ideas that science fiction can inspire [TS]

00:57:49   people to do big ideas and I thought to [TS]

00:57:52   myself yeah characters are important and [TS]

00:57:54   he you know people can unite around an [TS]

00:57:55   idea i thought yeah but you know what [TS]

00:57:56   that was called that one's called the [TS]

00:57:57   Martian when you know where everyone [TS]

00:57:59   United around the idea of bringing home [TS]

00:58:00   those dudes stranded on Mars so maybe [TS]

00:58:03   maybe it is possible to advocate for big [TS]

00:58:06   ideas while remembering that ideas are [TS]

00:58:08   only successful when you can figure out [TS]

00:58:10   how to how to have put humanity into the [TS]

00:58:12   picture because they're the ones execute [TS]

00:58:14   the ideas if you know anyone character [TS]

00:58:16   in the Martian you can you cannot [TS]

00:58:18   potatoes you can you go right now in [TS]

00:58:20   other words that's that are full of [TS]

00:58:21   ideas but you have to have a story that [TS]

00:58:23   makes people want to rally around those [TS]

00:58:25   ideas and I think that's one of the [TS]

00:58:27   places where Stevens and often struggles [TS]

00:58:29   is that that that's when he is i'm going [TS]

00:58:30   to show you how I did all this work and [TS]

00:58:32   again I think he's so talented that he [TS]

00:58:34   can often pull it pull it off but I i [TS]

00:58:37   think that i think it's a challenge in [TS]

00:58:39   and in this case I you know I read it I [TS]

00:58:42   read it all [TS]

00:58:43   I read it relatively quickly these are [TS]

00:58:46   all things go in the back panties are [TS]

00:58:48   coming i read it all home i mean i [TS]

00:58:51   didn't i didn't know how to run it and [TS]

00:58:52   in fact I read it fairly quickly so we [TS]

00:58:54   passed to the test but that all said I i [TS]

00:58:57   found myself kind of squinting and being [TS]

00:59:00   like really deal Stephenson way more [TS]

00:59:03   than I usually do in his book and so [TS]

00:59:05   that for me I have to say I was kind of [TS]

00:59:06   disappointed even though there's a lot [TS]

00:59:07   of great [TS]

00:59:08   there's a lot of great stuff in this [TS]

00:59:09   book it's just a really big book and [TS]

00:59:11   there's a lot of not great stuff in it [TS]

00:59:13   to me did a very good editor which it [TS]

00:59:15   did [TS]

00:59:16   now there's a guy named do i just-i [TS]

00:59:19   can't-- the past do business i wonder if [TS]

00:59:22   Neil deGrasse Tyson's like a total [TS]

00:59:23   stoner as a college they have this side [TS]

00:59:26   joke I can't because I was like whether [TS]

00:59:28   it's a neil degrasse tyson person and [TS]

00:59:30   and then that's a lot mosque and then [TS]

00:59:32   when you get to Julia I was I was going [TS]

00:59:35   through like okay it's not Sarah Palin [TS]

00:59:37   but it's no it's yeah I don't know it [TS]

00:59:41   he's a visa frustrating and and [TS]

00:59:43   fascinating writer and and and it but it [TS]

00:59:46   pulled me along i love i love this stuff [TS]

00:59:48   i mean Lisa we've talked about how many [TS]

00:59:50   times and with many of the people who [TS]

00:59:51   are on this episode about into the world [TS]

00:59:53   stories and and and how they can be [TS]

00:59:54   really interesting it and attracting I [TS]

00:59:56   just you know a lot of the stuff I [TS]

00:59:58   didn't I didn't I didn't but [TS]

00:59:58   didn't I didn't I didn't but [TS]

01:00:00   I had like I love the space stuff and [TS]

01:00:01   the idea of going to the comment and [TS]

01:00:04   they end up dying of horrible like [TS]

01:00:05   radiation poisoning and all that is [TS]

01:00:07   really an interesting story but there's [TS]

01:00:09   a lot of stuff that I just couldn't [TS]

01:00:11   believe like you know this isn't we [TS]

01:00:13   aren't gonna if he's really saying [TS]

01:00:14   here's my big idea we need to be able to [TS]

01:00:17   survive in a rickety space station when [TS]

01:00:18   the earth gets destroyed [TS]

01:00:20   I don't think he I don't think he [TS]

01:00:21   convinced me that that's remotely [TS]

01:00:24   possible that one out [TS]

01:00:26   yeah you know this this is struck us [TS]

01:00:29   hard for me because this is a book that [TS]

01:00:31   opens with one of the best opening lines [TS]

01:00:34   that I've seen in recent years moon blew [TS]

01:00:37   up suddenly and without warning is the [TS]

01:00:39   kind of sentence that just grabs you and [TS]

01:00:42   especially the the first couple of [TS]

01:00:44   chapters I although I have to say [TS]

01:00:46   listening to them an audiobook format [TS]

01:00:48   the second time around when I was [TS]

01:00:51   listening with someone else like this is [TS]

01:00:53   actually a lot more dense than I [TS]

01:00:56   remembered the opening being I remember [TS]

01:00:58   being like movable up suddenly without [TS]

01:01:00   warning a little bit with Dinah and then [TS]

01:01:02   the let's have a star party and look at [TS]

01:01:04   the pieces of the moon [TS]

01:01:06   oh crap we've been focusing on the wrong [TS]

01:01:08   thing yeah it's just like there there is [TS]

01:01:10   these really wonderful moments in the in [TS]

01:01:13   within this book that sort of slice out [TS]

01:01:16   I just what I think the core of the [TS]

01:01:18   story is these one of these seven or [TS]

01:01:20   eight people that we follow throughout [TS]

01:01:23   the throughout the book and there their [TS]

01:01:24   whole their own individual challenges [TS]

01:01:26   but surrounding those from surrounding [TS]

01:01:31   those little bubble habitats are [TS]

01:01:33   infinite areas of space and myspace I [TS]

01:01:37   mean random descriptions about things [TS]

01:01:40   that again we're playing for me at least [TS]

01:01:41   work i was so hooked by the opening [TS]

01:01:44   couple of chapters and then there's just [TS]

01:01:46   bits here and there that would every [TS]

01:01:48   time i would get a little bit weary of [TS]

01:01:50   it would just snag me again like the [TS]

01:01:52   we've been thinking about the wrong [TS]

01:01:53   thing and the you know qrt and like [TS]

01:01:57   little little bits here and there that [TS]

01:02:00   kept me on the the overall train but [TS]

01:02:03   looking at it in retrospective and [TS]

01:02:06   especially going back from mysore [TS]

01:02:08   fast-paced reading to listen [TS]

01:02:11   through it with a friend on a car ride I [TS]

01:02:14   was it made me realize that the book [TS]

01:02:17   wasn't quite as I want to say great [TS]

01:02:20   because i didn't think necessarily the [TS]

01:02:21   book was great but i thought it had [TS]

01:02:23   really fascinating elements and I i [TS]

01:02:28   think going back to it and looking at it [TS]

01:02:30   again it becomes more hollow where [TS]

01:02:33   you're like yeah you have these [TS]

01:02:34   wonderful of these wonderful Owens and [TS]

01:02:36   then you tear them down and then you [TS]

01:02:38   spend 30 pages talking about rockets [TS]

01:02:40   which is still interesting but a really [TS]

01:02:42   good editor could have paired this into [TS]

01:02:45   a really good novel I I i agree with you [TS]

01:02:49   but it seems like once people become [TS]

01:02:52   established novelists they may unless [TS]

01:02:55   they really really trust and want to [TS]

01:02:58   work with an editor they don't get [TS]

01:03:01   edited anymore and we talked about that [TS]

01:03:03   on the show many times bestselling [TS]

01:03:05   author not you [TS]

01:03:06   yeah so so so I'm going to all my words [TS]

01:03:10   are golden I don't know what you're [TS]

01:03:11   talking about people love me and that's [TS]

01:03:12   why are they love my thousand-page books [TS]

01:03:14   and that's why i write thousand-page [TS]

01:03:15   books and nobody stopped to say this [TS]

01:03:18   would be a stronger book or if they did [TS]

01:03:20   they were told you don't say that to him [TS]

01:03:23   you're being reassigned he has a sword [TS]

01:03:26   and I apologize to the editor if this [TS]

01:03:29   was originally 1,200 pages it was [TS]

01:03:31   actually four thousand page letter had [TS]

01:03:34   been like really they're going to let [TS]

01:03:35   Julia live after she violates everything [TS]

01:03:37   that this project stands for like why [TS]

01:03:39   didn't they just have Russian athlete [TS]

01:03:42   whose name I'm blanking on like they [TS]

01:03:44   could have had her just shove Julia an [TS]

01:03:45   airlock again and like a lot of problems [TS]

01:03:48   could have been delayed and I really [TS]

01:03:49   wish and everyone said you know this [TS]

01:03:52   doesn't bear up logically speaking um [TS]

01:03:54   yeah or and Neil Neil we will adjust [TS]

01:03:57   it's going to be an 800-page book but [TS]

01:03:59   the last 10 pages is going to be [TS]

01:04:00   footnotes that and and appendices but [TS]

01:04:04   you know we're not going to let's not [TS]

01:04:06   put them in the actual manuscript no [TS]

01:04:09   it'sit's he's such a talented writer and [TS]

01:04:11   I worry a little bit that he's kind of [TS]

01:04:13   um he's kinda lost his way now where [TS]

01:04:16   he's going to get to do what he wants [TS]

01:04:18   and people are going to go along because [TS]

01:04:19   he's so well known and he is test so [TS]

01:04:21   talented and this is too [TS]

01:04:24   in a row that have been problematic for [TS]

01:04:27   me and although i like the first again I [TS]

01:04:29   like the first whatever it is half of [TS]

01:04:31   remedy before it becomes a a sort of [TS]

01:04:34   like action movie out in the woods which [TS]

01:04:38   was fine for what it was but was not [TS]

01:04:40   what we come to expect from him but you [TS]

01:04:42   know it makes me want to go back and i [TS]

01:04:44   would say reread the baroque cycle but I [TS]

01:04:46   don't have that kind of time but like go [TS]

01:04:47   back and read reread right to nomicon [TS]

01:04:49   cryptonomicon or or even at them frankly [TS]

01:04:53   and jones i was i was thinkin bout [TS]

01:04:55   cryptonomicon in contrast to this [TS]

01:04:57   because there's a very funny passage [TS]

01:04:58   cryptonomicon about how one of the [TS]

01:05:00   characters vengeful ex-girlfriends raise [TS]

01:05:02   an academic paper on beards as a status [TS]

01:05:04   symbol MIT and and I and Stephenson is [TS]

01:05:10   very very funny when he's securing the [TS]

01:05:13   culture around science and engineering [TS]

01:05:18   and I appreciate it there and I saw what [TS]

01:05:21   he was trying to do with it here but [TS]

01:05:23   it's it's so bloated you really had to [TS]

01:05:26   dig through a lot of it and there are a [TS]

01:05:28   lot of times when it wasn't just [TS]

01:05:29   suspending disbelief was like okay I i [TS]

01:05:31   really have to just accept this is going [TS]

01:05:33   to happen there there inexplicably going [TS]

01:05:36   to let Julia live there inexplicably [TS]

01:05:38   going to let all of the storage units [TS]

01:05:41   that have all of the ova and sperm drift [TS]

01:05:43   away with a bunch of demented youngsters [TS]

01:05:45   and Julia they are going to do a fine [TS]

01:05:47   you know it just like getting up in [TS]

01:05:51   space was not the problem i really wish [TS]

01:05:52   he had taken the time to talk to some of [TS]

01:05:54   those those hated and feared non hard [TS]

01:05:56   science types who are you know say [TS]

01:05:57   sociologists and other people who study [TS]

01:06:00   like communities that work in close [TS]

01:06:03   quarters and stressful situations like [TS]

01:06:05   it would've been helpful if you talk to [TS]

01:06:06   somebody who isn't it for god sakes the [TS]

01:06:09   features a submarine like they could [TS]

01:06:11   drop some submarine science with well [TS]

01:06:12   you know the Navy studied how these [TS]

01:06:14   groups work together in these tight [TS]

01:06:16   close quarters which can kill them [TS]

01:06:18   here's maybe we should consider doing [TS]

01:06:20   like there was literally nothing about [TS]

01:06:21   the social human engineering in this and [TS]

01:06:22   I think what you're talking about the [TS]

01:06:23   fate of the human race you kinda have to [TS]

01:06:25   bring that up i did I one thing that I I [TS]

01:06:28   am disappointed that he didn't series we [TS]

01:06:30   sort of made good on all other threads i [TS]

01:06:33   am sorry that at the end he doesn't say [TS]

01:06:35   Oh didn't we tell you what there are [TS]

01:06:37   also people on Mars [TS]

01:06:38   just because people go to Mars some of [TS]

01:06:39   the rebels say we're gonna go to Mars [TS]

01:06:41   and all the other unaccounted for [TS]

01:06:44   survivors of Earth established societies [TS]

01:06:46   that were flourishing 5,000 years later [TS]

01:06:48   but they don't even mention like oh you [TS]

01:06:50   know that they all died or 10 [TS]

01:06:52   miraculously like everyone else they [TS]

01:06:54   survived but there's many have a term is [TS]

01:06:56   equal no word about the Martians yeah [TS]

01:06:59   this is the pingers he doesn't rate [TS]

01:07:01   sequel submarine people [TS]

01:07:03   yes Stevenson's on the record saying [TS]

01:07:04   that he doesn't ever believed in so he [TS]

01:07:06   gets the whole story out of it takes [TS]

01:07:07   some 3,000 pages that's about Jewish [TS]

01:07:10   equals are just extra long it blocks no [TS]

01:07:13   yeah [TS]

01:07:14   any other thoughts about uh about what [TS]

01:07:17   the heck is this book called i can [TS]

01:07:19   remember seventies i'll say downward [TS]

01:07:20   seven Eve's anybody have any any other [TS]

01:07:23   quality i do of course it yeah at least [TS]

01:07:25   you have more thoughts i do besides that [TS]

01:07:28   whole second novella of thoughts [TS]

01:07:30   yeah it's it's 800 pages that part I [TS]

01:07:32   know I'm i said this before saturday [TS]

01:07:34   popped on where I said I really admired [TS]

01:07:36   the book and quality that serenity had [TS]

01:07:38   discerned when she put these two books [TS]

01:07:40   together because with seventies you have [TS]

01:07:43   this space operates grand scale and [TS]

01:07:45   scope and it's suddenly the super [TS]

01:07:48   optimistic book about how science will [TS]

01:07:50   solve all your problems and humidity [TS]

01:07:52   will you know rise to the challenge and [TS]

01:07:54   o things will be wonderful in the future [TS]

01:07:57   they'll be you know hanging out and cool [TS]

01:07:59   bars you drink in grapes farm by the [TS]

01:08:01   andhra Thals and we and then the flip [TS]

01:08:05   side of it is this incredibly intimate [TS]

01:08:06   story in the water knife where it looks [TS]

01:08:09   at how no science and technology only [TS]

01:08:11   solve problems for people whose problems [TS]

01:08:13   extend to have a nicer found in my [TS]

01:08:16   archaeology that nobody else can get [TS]

01:08:17   into or how can my air filter work [TS]

01:08:20   better as I rip through the the [TS]

01:08:22   sandstorm getting ready to put the hurt [TS]

01:08:25   on some of my boss wants me to its it [TS]

01:08:27   was two very able to opposition always [TS]

01:08:30   looking at the at the end of the world [TS]

01:08:32   for somebody and I liked how the [TS]

01:08:35   differences in scope and the differences [TS]

01:08:39   in the way that the two chose to look at [TS]

01:08:41   the human condition and how that affects [TS]

01:08:42   the outcome of of a of a society's [TS]

01:08:44   future they could not have been more [TS]

01:08:46   different and I think that reading them [TS]

01:08:48   back-to-back like I did for this podcast [TS]

01:08:49   real [TS]

01:08:50   we highlighted that for me so you know [TS]

01:08:52   seven years if you read that in context [TS]

01:08:54   with the water knife it's it's just like [TS]

01:08:56   wow this is big big big and scope oh my [TS]

01:08:58   god i just keeps going and getting [TS]

01:09:02   bigger and I've lost track of who all [TS]

01:09:04   the characters are because i've just [TS]

01:09:06   read some more about chains filled with [TS]

01:09:08   robots and from there so many robots so [TS]

01:09:13   many chance now I thought it was I [TS]

01:09:15   thought it was I thought it was some [TS]

01:09:16   helpful to look at it in contrast with a [TS]

01:09:19   very intimate end of the world book [TS]

01:09:21   which is what the water knife isn't a [TS]

01:09:22   lot of ways you know coming up the same [TS]

01:09:25   idea from two very different points of [TS]

01:09:27   view exactly who go read Julian may just [TS]

01:09:30   be Julian ok please you recommend the [TS]

01:09:33   place in soccer would you just go [TS]

01:09:34   straight into the straight into the [TS]

01:09:37   stuff that start to Jeff the body list i [TS]

01:09:40   would i would start with the police in [TS]

01:09:41   saket okay i mean i-i would i first read [TS]

01:09:46   them all in order just in in publishing [TS]

01:09:49   order [TS]

01:09:50   alright we have we have a come to the [TS]

01:09:52   point of the show where I very quickly [TS]

01:09:53   want to go around and ask my panelists [TS]

01:09:56   if there's anything interesting that [TS]

01:09:59   they're reading or have just read other [TS]

01:10:01   than the books we've already talked [TS]

01:10:02   about this is what we like to call what [TS]

01:10:04   are you reading [TS]

01:10:04   David Laura what are you reading well [TS]

01:10:07   i'm back in writing mode so i'm reading [TS]

01:10:09   nonfiction again and i'm reading the [TS]

01:10:11   monopolists obsession fury and the [TS]

01:10:14   scandal behind the world's favorite [TS]

01:10:17   board game by Mary pallone it's about [TS]

01:10:19   the game of life right [TS]

01:10:21   yeah yeah and scrabble and and trivial [TS]

01:10:24   pursuit ok good sits yeah good [TS]

01:10:27   that's as it should be and yes you have [TS]

01:10:30   script you you owe me some scripts so [TS]

01:10:31   keep on reading nonfiction it Lisa what [TS]

01:10:35   are you reading [TS]

01:10:36   oh I'm I'm breathing two things at once [TS]

01:10:38   i'm reading citizen coke the making of [TS]

01:10:40   coca-cola capitalism by bart ojl more [TS]

01:10:43   and i finally got my copy of randleman [TS]

01:10:46   Rose what if serious scientific answers [TS]

01:10:49   yes you too absurd hypothetical [TS]

01:10:51   questions so those are the two that i'm [TS]

01:10:54   reading concur i usually have like two [TS]

01:10:56   or three bucks going into time and I [TS]

01:10:57   just kind of flip through them depending [TS]

01:10:59   on the mood for all right that's that's [TS]

01:11:01   good [TS]

01:11:01   serenity what are you reading [TS]

01:11:03   I'm working my way through allen-bradley [TS]

01:11:05   is Flavian loose series which is the [TS]

01:11:08   side what young adults post-world war [TS]

01:11:14   two story about a young girl in Britain [TS]

01:11:19   who who loves making poisons and it's [TS]

01:11:23   and she sells murder mystery spot for [TS]

01:11:25   watering it's very it's very clever [TS]

01:11:28   training with yes very clever writing [TS]

01:11:30   it's it's delightful English countryside [TS]

01:11:33   it's a nice mashup and then i'm also [TS]

01:11:35   reading the real all Americans which is [TS]

01:11:39   I just started reading at about [TS]

01:11:41   basically about the early days of [TS]

01:11:43   football and the teams who basically [TS]

01:11:46   cheated or cheated and the reverse [TS]

01:11:49   cheating that gave college football it's [TS]

01:11:52   all of its rules and regulations because [TS]

01:11:55   as as as somebody who participates in a [TS]

01:11:57   sport that is only 10 years old and has [TS]

01:11:59   a lot of rules negotiating happening [TS]

01:12:02   live on the track is fascinating to to [TS]

01:12:05   see that from a from another from a [TS]

01:12:07   sport that's now pretty storied in its [TS]

01:12:09   very early days it's got what are you [TS]

01:12:12   reading or have read that is a worthy [TS]

01:12:15   how I've read two novels right after I [TS]

01:12:19   read the seventies and water knife both [TS]

01:12:22   of which I thought were better than [TS]

01:12:23   seven leaves or the water knife one of [TS]

01:12:26   which is by an author that jason has [TS]

01:12:28   sworn off forever so I'm sure he will [TS]

01:12:29   never read it unless nominee for Hugo [TS]

01:12:32   which i think is going and that's Aurora [TS]

01:12:35   by Kim Stanley Robinson which is I've [TS]

01:12:38   heard good things about it but uh yeah [TS]

01:12:40   I'm like I'm reluctant to go back there [TS]

01:12:43   I think I don't want to ruin it because [TS]

01:12:44   it has some fascinating twists to it but [TS]

01:12:47   I thought it was fantastic i'm a fan of [TS]

01:12:50   kim roberts Rakim yeah I am very man the [TS]

01:12:54   KSR that's what the reason fans [TS]

01:12:57   Cartwright so I think it's great that [TS]

01:13:00   her it's basically it follows this [TS]

01:13:02   generation ship that's going off to [TS]

01:13:04   colonize world and some things happen [TS]

01:13:07   and you know it's interesting and there [TS]

01:13:11   is another book that I really liked by [TS]

01:13:13   ian MacDonald who is one of my favorite [TS]

01:13:15   authors [TS]

01:13:15   I wrote the Dervish house which we [TS]

01:13:17   talked about on the previous Hugo [TS]

01:13:19   episode he has the last couple of years [TS]

01:13:23   been writing young adult fiction which [TS]

01:13:25   angers me because I don't like an [TS]

01:13:26   affliction because I am an older adults [TS]

01:13:28   yeah and this ho ho [TS]

01:13:30   but he's come back to normal adult [TS]

01:13:33   fiction and he's written a book called [TS]

01:13:34   Luna new moon which is set on the moon [TS]

01:13:38   and someone is called it the game of [TS]

01:13:40   thrones on the moon which I don't think [TS]

01:13:42   is really accurate but it involves five [TS]

01:13:46   families that are fighting on the moon [TS]

01:13:48   several hundred years in the future and [TS]

01:13:52   it has many nice little touches the the [TS]

01:13:55   characters apparently in the moon [TS]

01:13:57   culture nineteen fifties style has been [TS]

01:14:00   a research and so people print out 50 [TS]

01:14:02   dresses and things and go to cocktail [TS]

01:14:03   parties [TS]

01:14:04   everybody has these contact lenses that [TS]

01:14:08   are implanted in their eyes and they get [TS]

01:14:10   to see how much air they're being [TS]

01:14:12   charged for and if you run out of money [TS]

01:14:14   you suffocate and die because you know [TS]

01:14:16   someone has to pay for the hair they [TS]

01:14:19   call people who come from the earth to [TS]

01:14:20   go to the moon they call him Joe [TS]

01:14:22   moonbeams because they're new and they [TS]

01:14:24   can't figure out how to stuff that's [TS]

01:14:26   just a great book so check out alright [TS]

01:14:28   and for me I i read the end of all [TS]

01:14:31   things by john scalzi which is the [TS]

01:14:33   latest in his old man's war series and I [TS]

01:14:38   I feel like he needs I i believe he is [TS]

01:14:40   taking a little less step away from the [TS]

01:14:42   series because i feel like it was kind [TS]

01:14:43   of wheezing to the finish line [TS]

01:14:45   it's got some familiar characters but i [TS]

01:14:47   think he got caught up in the kind of [TS]

01:14:49   interstellar imaginations at a high [TS]

01:14:51   level of and add this plotline that went [TS]

01:14:54   through these last two books about this [TS]

01:14:56   secret attack on the one human race and [TS]

01:14:59   I don't think it really merited two [TS]

01:15:02   books worth of story and I think these [TS]

01:15:04   series are really the the books in this [TS]

01:15:06   series have been the best when they [TS]

01:15:07   focused on on those individual [TS]

01:15:10   characters and how they make their way [TS]

01:15:12   in this crazy you know space opera world [TS]

01:15:16   that he set up and for the last couple [TS]

01:15:18   we've had a lot of bureaucrats and a lot [TS]

01:15:20   of negotiations and a lot of ambassadors [TS]

01:15:22   and it's fine [TS]

01:15:24   he's a good writer it's entertaining [TS]

01:15:26   it's always kind of breezy and fun [TS]

01:15:28   and yet I feel like at the end of it I [TS]

01:15:30   sort of said yeah okay whatever I [TS]

01:15:33   honestly I don't even remember how it [TS]

01:15:34   ends because it was so insubstantial and [TS]

01:15:37   I just moved on to the to the next thing [TS]

01:15:39   and then I want to put a shout out to [TS]

01:15:41   aftermath by check when day which is the [TS]

01:15:43   star wars novel it's got like one star a [TS]

01:15:46   million one-star reviews on Amazon [TS]

01:15:48   because it doesn't answer all of the [TS]

01:15:50   questions fans have or service fans in [TS]

01:15:53   the way that they expected and i have to [TS]

01:15:55   say is I thought it was fine [TS]

01:15:57   um I don't think I don't think it's bad [TS]

01:15:59   i don't think it's fantastic but I think [TS]

01:16:01   honestly it's I pretty good for a meet a [TS]

01:16:04   a movie franchise tie-in novel and the [TS]

01:16:09   people who are angry about it or not [TS]

01:16:11   angry about it because of the content [TS]

01:16:12   they're angry for personal reasons that [TS]

01:16:15   don't relate to the actual book so you [TS]

01:16:18   know that rage [TS]

01:16:19   yeah it's strong and I understand why [TS]

01:16:22   they might be angry but it's it's not [TS]

01:16:24   because of the book because what the [TS]

01:16:26   book doesn't do which is tell the story [TS]

01:16:28   that they have imagined for 20 years in [TS]

01:16:32   their own minds [TS]

01:16:33   this is what happens when you reboot [TS]

01:16:35   when you reboot a franchise and when you [TS]

01:16:38   destroy years of cut former continuity [TS]

01:16:41   of the Expanded Universe continuity and [TS]

01:16:43   all that stuff so it's totally [TS]

01:16:44   understandable from that perspective I [TS]

01:16:45   just having read the book i can say i [TS]

01:16:47   thought it was fine i didn't again not [TS]

01:16:50   great literature or anything but i [TS]

01:16:51   thought i had some interesting [TS]

01:16:52   characters it played with the star wars [TS]

01:16:54   universe in though in the way you might [TS]

01:16:56   expect our uh novelist to get the chance [TS]

01:16:59   to play in the star wars universe to do [TS]

01:17:00   so it you know it was it was fine it was [TS]

01:17:05   a it was a quick read and and there's [TS]

01:17:09   nothing wrong with being fine and you [TS]

01:17:11   read it all and i read it already and [TS]

01:17:12   that's another great because my was fine [TS]

01:17:15   i read it all [TS]

01:17:16   what more do you want from me people [TS]

01:17:18   only one man put that on your book [TS]

01:17:22   unless you're ksr no take that well this [TS]

01:17:26   has been fun i know we're gonna have to [TS]

01:17:28   figure out what we're going to read next [TS]

01:17:30   maybe we'll see things that sky [TS]

01:17:31   recommends that for marketers I don't [TS]

01:17:33   want to read but that's okay Scott [TS]

01:17:36   Scott's a reduced me to some fantastic [TS]

01:17:38   book so perhaps we will have to go go [TS]

01:17:40   ahead Scott [TS]

01:17:42   and something he is walking pressure [TS]

01:17:45   pressure and it is you yet to recommend [TS]

01:17:48   something to somebody and have them say [TS]

01:17:50   oh I hated that you know that's the [TS]

01:17:51   worst that's true i'd like to thank my [TS]

01:17:55   fellow members of the book club for [TS]

01:17:57   joining us tonight Lisa Schmeisser thank [TS]

01:18:00   you so much for being here [TS]

01:18:01   I had a ball thank you I already called [TS]

01:18:04   well thank you it was a pleasure [TS]

01:18:07   I'm glad we all have water I'm glad we [TS]

01:18:09   have water for now [TS]

01:18:10   some more than others uh-huh David Laura [TS]

01:18:13   thank you thank you i'm going to go get [TS]

01:18:15   some water right now you know i might [TS]

01:18:17   not surprising that is sooo tonight so [TS]

01:18:21   the water dive cut a little close for [TS]

01:18:23   you and Scott McNulty of course I it [TS]

01:18:28   wouldn't be book club without you accept [TS]

01:18:30   those times when you refuse to be on [TS]

01:18:31   that's right when someone has [TS]

01:18:33   recommended a book i will not read [TS]

01:18:35   exactly what I didn't happen this time [TS]

01:18:38   no I thought of that so thank you for [TS]

01:18:39   being here and reading books [TS]

01:18:41   well thank you read for suggesting with [TS]

01:18:44   yes yes full credit around for saying we [TS]

01:18:46   should we should do a book love about [TS]

01:18:47   this and so we did and this is it and [TS]

01:18:50   you just heard it and until next week i [TS]

01:18:52   have been your host Jason's now thank [TS]

01:18:54   you for listening to be uncomfortable [TS]

01:18:55   goodbye [TS]

01:19:02   listen to it all you got to the end in [TS]

01:19:08   comfortable readers said I heard the end [TS]

01:19:11   part where they said I got to the end [TS]

01:19:30   it was a crisp autumn evening in the [TS]

01:19:32   windy city even though it's only the [TS]

01:19:34   middle of June as usual i was in the [TS]

01:19:37   loop down at Falstaff's my guy was [TS]

01:19:39   blowing the sax the bartender came by to [TS]

01:19:41   refresh my drink [TS]

01:19:43   do you think that all the planes a new [TS]

01:19:45   stuff tonight [TS]

01:19:46   not so you'd notice Johnny yeah yeah [TS]

01:19:48   says you [TS]

01:19:49   you get to hear it all the time all i [TS]

01:19:51   knows is digging what their plan that [TS]

01:19:53   doesn't quite work Johnny now with the [TS]

01:19:56   shop [TS]

01:19:56   just then a woman blew into the club [TS]

01:19:59   like an ill wind or maybe a client [TS]

01:20:01   probably both know how these things go [TS]

01:20:04   to help you miss [TS]

01:20:07   i'm looking for a doll tearsheet private [TS]

01:20:10   I investigator down the bar the moment [TS]

01:20:13   all the red hair be starting lips [TS]

01:20:15   you can't miss it hey you dolt a sheet [TS]

01:20:18   that's what it says on the office door [TS]

01:20:20   does it also see private eye because I'm [TS]

01:20:23   being framed for murder and that's how I [TS]

01:20:26   got caught up in the advanced murder [TS]

01:20:28   case it's being comfortable radio [TS]

01:20:33   theatre new episodes through december [TS]

01:20:36   are you not subscribed yet go to the [TS]

01:20:38   incomparable calm / radio [TS]

01:20:40   subscribe now that's an order [TS]