359: Hi Everybody... Pineapple


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:13   From relay.fm, this is Upgrade, episode 359. Today's show is brought to you by Bombas,

00:00:20   Instabug, Privacy, and ExpressVPN. My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by Jason Snell. And Jason

00:00:25   Snell, you know what time it is, right? Myke, it's the Summer of Fun! It started. Jason Snell, I'm very aware of the fact that we may have new

00:00:38   Upgradients and they have no idea why we keep shouting that. So, Jason Snell, what is

00:00:43   the Summer of Fun? Oh, it's a special time that happens ideally once a year. I mean,

00:00:56   we've talked about it before, but just as a recap, what happened originally is we got

00:01:03   to the Summer doing Upgrade. We started Upgrade in the Fall. We got to the Summer and there

00:01:07   was a lot of travel going on. Myke was going here and there and here and there and I was

00:01:11   doing a little bit of traveling too. And we ended up in this question of like, what are

00:01:15   we doing for the Summer? Because we end up having to have guests and we're going to have

00:01:21   to pre-record episodes. There's various choices, right? When we're not available on Monday

00:01:26   or Tuesday or like somewhere very close to our recording date, you don't want to record

00:01:30   an episode of Upgrade three weeks early because things change and we talk about current events.

00:01:35   So what we ended up doing was adapting and your choices are get guests or pre-record.

00:01:42   And if you pre-record, you can't do something timely. So you have to come up with a concept

00:01:45   or a topic or something that you can pre-record that is not going to be invalidated by the

00:01:49   events of the next week or two. So we kind of fell into this concept of the Summer of

00:01:55   Fun mostly as a way to explain to listeners why Upgrade in the Summertime gets a little

00:02:03   bit weird, like we're okay weirder than it usually is. And it has taken, sometimes it's

00:02:13   pretty simple. Like it's a, you know, we did like a panel from an event once and I brought

00:02:18   on guest to talk to me when Myke is traveling, we've done like conceptual episodes that we

00:02:24   pre-recorded a bunch of different stuff like that. It's a grab bag. If every week is different,

00:02:31   not every week is going to be a complete rethinking of the podcast format. But we do that occasionally.

00:02:35   We did an episode a couple years ago where we did the entire show backward. We started

00:02:39   with goodbyes, went into Ask Upgrade and then we ended with the Snell Talk question and

00:02:43   hellos and that was the end of the episode and we called that Downgrade because it was

00:02:47   the reverse of Upgrade.

00:02:48   We did Outgrade last year which was high concept.

00:02:52   Because we were all locked in and so we did an episode where Myke and I were like in a

00:02:57   soundscape where we had background noise and we were walking around as if we were out and

00:03:00   about taking a hike. You know, that some people complain they're like, "Why does it not sound

00:03:06   normal?" And the answer is, "Well, we were trying something different." So Summer of

00:03:10   Fun, that's what it's about. It's not always going to be something that blows your mind

00:03:13   that is totally different but it's really us sort of turning on the light that says

00:03:19   things are not going to be your average upgrade for a little while. Also, usually there's

00:03:24   not a lot of, there's not as much news and there's not as much breaking stuff in the

00:03:29   summer. Usually because Apple sort of takes a break after the developer conference and

00:03:35   doesn't really come back until the iPhone event. So there's sort of a natural part

00:03:39   where like the betas are out there and we do talk about them and all that but there's

00:03:42   sort of a slacking off of Apple-related news as well. So that's another motive.

00:03:49   Last year was weird because of the pandemic. There wasn't a break in the sense of like

00:03:54   just news kept happening, things kept happening, which is unlike the other years. I mean, just

00:04:01   say we did start this initially because of how do we explain why we're having so many

00:04:06   weird episodes in the summer.

00:04:08   Because of our vacations, essentially.

00:04:09   Exactly. But then it has actually become a thing of like, "Well, we want to do this

00:04:13   show every single week. That's what we want to do." But we are mostly news-focused and

00:04:18   so when there's no news, we need topics and there's less news during June to September.

00:04:26   And we usually end the Summer of Fun the week before, so the draft episode for the iPhone

00:04:33   event. And again, last year it went all the way to October and it wouldn't stop. And again,

00:04:39   we have no idea when it will stop this year as well. Now on today's episode, we're kicking

00:04:43   off the Summer of Fun with an extended Ask Upgrade of all summer-focused questions.

00:04:48   That's true.

00:04:50   Because I asked for them on Twitter via the Upgrade Twitter account and we got a lot of

00:04:56   questions, so we're going to be doing a bumper episode today. But just because it's the summer,

00:05:02   we don't completely eschew our typical traditions of the show. I have a #SnellTalk question

00:05:06   for you, Jason. This one comes from Tim and Tim wants to know, "Do you still buy movies

00:05:11   and TV shows on physical media?"

00:05:15   I don't very often. I did. So once I got my 4K HDR TV, I got a 4K Blu-ray player and I

00:05:25   have bought some movies on 4K Blu-ray because at the time it was really because that 4K

00:05:35   stuff wasn't really streaming commonly. Now of course, every streaming service has at

00:05:40   least a 4K option, although again, how compressed they are with the bit rates that they're streaming

00:05:45   is up for grabs. But already that was sort of it. Is this a movie that I want to watch

00:05:51   a bunch of times and I think will really benefit from being in glorious kind of like full quality

00:05:58   4K HDR high bandwidth on a disk? And the truth is those all come with digital copies that

00:06:05   are in iTunes at 4K at this point. So I get a convenient kind of portable version as well.

00:06:15   My guess is that I'm not going to do it very often now because the fact is like, do I want

00:06:20   to buy that Marvel movie when I know it'll just be on Disney Plus forever in 4K? And

00:06:25   is that enough? Is that good enough for me? And the answer is for most movies, probably.

00:06:31   So the answer is yes, but it is dramatically decreasing to the point where I may be done

00:06:38   with it at some point. Other than occasionally there's a special example of something that

00:06:43   I think like I bought into the Spider-Verse on 4K Blu-ray and I thought like this movie

00:06:46   is so beautiful and I want to see it as in its absolute best form possible. But it's fading

00:06:54   away. Oh, I should say sometimes things aren't available digitally in any form streaming

00:07:01   or a la carte and you have to go buy the DVD or maybe you have to go buy the DVD if it

00:07:07   isn't pirated on Daily Motion or Vimeo or something. Sometimes we actually did that

00:07:14   for a podcast. We were looking for an episode of a TV show for another podcast I do that

00:07:18   I was thinking I was going to have to buy the DVDs like I did last summer for Murder

00:07:23   She Wrote, I think. We needed an episode of Murder She Wrote for the Magnum PI podcast

00:07:28   because there's a crossover and I ended up finding on Amazon I could like well I can

00:07:32   buy the complete second season of Murder She Wrote for $14 on Amazon and just on DVD and

00:07:37   just have that sent over and so I did that. But this latest...

00:07:41   Now you have that.

00:07:42   I do. I'm going to give it to Scott McNulty who is a Murder She Wrote fan. I keep threatening

00:07:46   to just send it to him. One day a Murder She Wrote DVD set is going to show up in his mail

00:07:50   and he'll probably be happy about it. But this latest one that we're doing I found the

00:07:55   entire episode on Vimeo so it's like oh don't have to buy a DVD of this random show just

00:08:01   for one episode of it. But for the most part you know it's I'm down to just these 4k Blu-rays

00:08:08   where it's like the super high bandwidth high quality and that's pretty much all the stuff

00:08:14   that I'm buying and I'm not even buying much of that anymore.

00:08:17   If you would like to send in a question to help us open an episode of Upgrade just send

00:08:20   out a tweet with the hashtag #SnellTalk or use question mark #SnellTalk in the relayFM

00:08:24   members discord. We have something else for the summer of fun. We have merchandise! We

00:08:30   do. Go to upgradeyourwardrobe.com and you can peruse our line of t-shirt designs. We've

00:08:37   not had any merch on this show since 2019. It's been a while. Now's the time. We are

00:08:42   bringing back two previous designs. The original dongle town t-shirt which has been a big success.

00:08:50   One of the reasons we're bringing this back is I have a hole in mine and want a new one.

00:08:53   So if you want one, thank my shirt for having a hole in it.

00:08:58   It's the truest reason to bring back merch is that the podcasters need a new shirt. Although

00:09:03   I'll say there's a danger there which is every time I do an incomparable robot or a Skeletor

00:09:07   I buy one figuring you know my other one is gonna gonna die but I am kind of infamous

00:09:12   about kind of wearing my shirts beyond their welcome point and I have I have like three

00:09:17   robot shirts waiting to go now that I haven't worn so you know that there is a danger there

00:09:23   too that eventually I'm just only gonna be wearing my own podcast t-shirts.

00:09:27   So we also brought back the dongle town surf club shirt that was our last merchandise that

00:09:34   we released in 2019. It's summery and it's in some new colors. There's a there's a green

00:09:39   and a purple. The purple is beautiful. The purple is amazing for the dongle town surf

00:09:44   club if you're into that sort of thing. Purple shirts and all love it.

00:09:49   So there's those two that come back but we have a brand new summer of fun inspired design.

00:09:56   It is the upgrade summer fun t-shirt designed by Jason Snell. Yeah. It did a very good job.

00:10:02   I hope from the people at cotton Bureau it's based on the summer of fun designed by Simon

00:10:07   our former designer and my friend Anthony Johnston who is sort of he's a he's a video

00:10:14   game writer and novelist and a comic book writer but he used to be a graphic designer

00:10:19   and still does some graphic design work to help out his friends and he he helped me out

00:10:23   with the concept because I was struggling with exactly how to do a kind of limited number

00:10:27   of colors t-shirt design that got across the summary almost 80s vibe summary summer of

00:10:34   fun t-shirt that I wanted to do and he made a very specific suggestion with the with Simon's

00:10:41   artwork that was perfect and so I'm pretty happy with it. It looks pretty good and then

00:10:46   cotton Bureau fixed all of my terrible problems with trying to figure out how to do vector

00:10:52   art properly and clip vector art and affinity designer kind of let me down but cotton Bureau

00:10:58   their pros they took care of it. This shirt is available in a selection of blues beautiful

00:11:04   blues to match with the ocean and also for the boring amongst you a black. Yeah I I like

00:11:11   the irony of somebody wearing a black t-shirt that says summer of fun so it's there if you

00:11:16   want it and you can just picture that the Sun is setting into a backlit silhouetted

00:11:23   ocean honestly darkness I probably will buy one of the black ones because there is something

00:11:29   kind of heavy metal or goth about that in a way that I enjoy. Yeah it's also a tank

00:11:36   top as well of this one there is you know it's summer so if that's your jam we have

00:11:41   that thanks to miss a soup of the chat room Kathy Campbell who suggested that we had to

00:11:48   do it as a tank top and so it is there it is tank top available. So that's three t-shirt

00:11:54   designs they're available for two weeks two weeks 14 days there you go so just two weeks

00:12:00   will remind you next week about the summer of fun and you can get your dongle town t-shirts

00:12:06   and get your summer of fun I love the the summer fun t-shirt I'm really excited about

00:12:10   it it was it was a I had that moment right where you and I were talking and I said I

00:12:15   think we should do a summer of fun t-shirt and you're like okay go go for it and I had

00:12:19   to figure out like what fonts Simon used and where the design was and all those things

00:12:25   but uh I'm happy about it I'm gonna be wearing that one this summer for sure. Yeah I can't

00:12:29   wait I really can't wait to get mine so go to upgradeyourwardrobe.com or you can click

00:12:34   the link in the show notes and you can pick up your merch enjoy it and you'll also be

00:12:38   helping support the show as well so thank you so much. I have my very own 24 inch iMac

00:12:43   now. Yeah so you returned the um the Apple loaner. My review unit yeah. And replaced

00:12:53   it with itself. Yeah I have a yellow I fell in love with this computer you know I think

00:12:59   I said this at the time I'm not surprised if anybody listened to the episode where I

00:13:03   reviewed this thing a few weeks ago it was very I'd already bought it I I fell in love

00:13:09   immediately and I also I found I think some really great uses for this machine so like

00:13:17   right now it is my recording machine and I really love it I have it the monitor that

00:13:21   I was using my mini before I have set off on the side and that's where I put all of

00:13:25   my audio hijack and zoom and all that kind of stuff when I record I think the screen

00:13:31   then what's left is perfect for me size wise for now like if I you know if I have all this

00:13:37   other stuff on the other monitor then I have more than enough space for my web browser

00:13:41   and stuff like that it performs way better for me than any Intel Mac has before when

00:13:50   using programs like logic so like there was a two week period of when I'd returned the

00:13:56   iMac to Apple and mine had arrived and going back to the Mac mini for editing was real

00:14:02   rough like I hated it but it was just not responsive in the way that the M1 Macs are

00:14:08   so I can't imagine that I would be getting another desktop Mac until way later in the

00:14:15   year maybe next year you know when Apple actually releases something that I would want to replace

00:14:21   the iMac Pro that I have at home and then I've decided now my kind of future computing

00:14:27   needs are becoming clearer this machine would then become our home computer and I would

00:14:33   swap in a professional grade quote unquote machine right and then this machine would

00:14:39   become the home machine replacing the iMac Pro which is in kind of like my home office

00:14:46   now which is just not used and so as we move forward you know we're hoping that we could

00:14:52   maybe move home next year we would have a kind of more general room which would have

00:14:57   a home computer in it right and this would be that machine and as I said a few weeks

00:15:02   ago I think that's what this iMac is like perfectly made for to be that kind of like

00:15:07   home computer so that's where I am right now and I am super happy with this and one little

00:15:13   thing that I've done I think I may have mentioned this at the time I love having touch ID right

00:15:19   but I also love using keyboards of my own making so I have used sticky velcro tape and

00:15:27   I have stuck the magic keyboard underneath my desk so I can reach under to use touch

00:15:33   ID you have a little sneaky place that you can put your finger under your desk and magic

00:15:38   happens yep it's really great and only on a couple of occasions I've bumped the button

00:15:43   and unlock my iMac but most of the time it's awesome and I really like this kind of when

00:15:49   I get to when it asks me hey use touch ID I can just reach under the desk you know like

00:15:56   like I'm like a panic button do you have it oriented so it's just the narrow side so it's

00:16:00   like running away from you so it's it's or is it wide it's wide with the like with the

00:16:08   back facing towards me so the button is closest to me physically right interesting I was thinking

00:16:14   you could also mount it you could also mount it with the narrow side on that corner where

00:16:20   the button is and then you'd have to put it on your right I have it on my left you see

00:16:25   yeah that's where I wanted it on my left so yeah this this took some time because what

00:16:30   you need if you're going to do this is the button to be like closest to you physically

00:16:35   so you can easily reach for it otherwise you're pressing all kinds of keys so I have it on

00:16:40   the left side of the desk facing towards me if you had if you had key press problems you

00:16:44   could also probably use something like carabiner and like lock out all the keys on that keyboard

00:16:50   other than the other than the the power button or I mean you could basically lock out all

00:16:55   the keys where it would just be using touch ID I bet I bet you could do that if it but

00:16:59   that would really only happen if you were you know accidentally you you twitched your

00:17:02   leg and you typed a bunch of things on your underside keyboard there's a couple of reasons

00:17:07   I put it on the left side where it is one if I had it on the right there would be more

00:17:11   chance of me doing that just put the way that the desks oriented and also I have height

00:17:17   controls this is the sit stand desk and the height controls are on the right side I would

00:17:21   have naturally wanted this on the right side but there wasn't a way for me to put it and

00:17:26   orient it in a way that was comfortable so I moved it to the left that's uh that makes

00:17:31   sense this is great I have I still have my review unit here it's due back in a couple

00:17:36   of weeks I've been using Mac OS Monterey on it and I will I'm probably going to ask them

00:17:41   if I can extend my loan for a little bit because it's really nice to have a modern Apple silicon

00:17:47   system that is running Mac OS Monterey beta that is not like the laptop that I have to

00:17:54   take when I travel because then I'm on a beta when I travel and I don't like that idea that's

00:17:58   that does not make me comfortable at all so and yeah they're great I my reluctance in

00:18:06   in buying one is just that it is not a suitable replacement for my iMac Pro it's just not

00:18:13   there are too many things that I'm doing with especially isotope the people good people

00:18:17   at isotope make some amazing sound plugins a lot of them are not multi core enabled and

00:18:23   it's really sad or not properly multi threaded and it none of them are running on native

00:18:31   on Apple silicon right now and as a result going from Intel with eight cores down to

00:18:35   a an m1 it for a lot of those plugins it's just terrible like I can't I can't go to the

00:18:44   current m1s and do what I'm doing but it the temptation is is real so I'm just gonna have

00:18:51   to buy my time having the MacBook Air also really helps because I do have an m1 Mac I

00:18:55   can I can do stuff on that and it's delightful but but I I'm just gonna be I'm in the position

00:19:01   of I think a lot of our listeners which is I'm waiting it out because what I really want

00:19:05   is the stuff that's enabled by whatever the next Apple silicon chip is whether it's an

00:19:10   m1 X or an m2 or whatever they call it that kind of more cores more capable for more pro

00:19:15   applications kind of thing and then I just need the maker of these intense sound plugins

00:19:22   that I use to get their button gear and actually release an Apple silicon version because I

00:19:29   don't know what the problem is last week Windows 11 was shown off Microsoft yes it was and

00:19:35   when I was 11 looks really interesting I was give a bit of follow out because so I host

00:19:40   another podcast and relay phone called the test drivers with Austin Evans where I guess

00:19:45   it's kind of like my other shows but not really focused about Apple so much I we talk about

00:19:50   all the technology right so we'll and gaming too is a bit of crossover so but we had the

00:19:55   opportunity to sit down with panels Panay who is Microsoft Microsoft's chief product

00:20:01   officer for Windows and devices like surfaces and stuff if you've seen any of the surface

00:20:07   presentations in the last couple of years you would have seen panels most notably I

00:20:12   think for a lot of people he showed off the windows of the surface duo and neo the folding

00:20:18   devices a couple of years ago I this is one we could sit down with a great interview great

00:20:25   discussion which I was very pleased that we got to talk to Panos so I'll put a link in

00:20:30   the show notes I would really love it if you go and check it out because I'm really proud

00:20:33   of the way the episode came together I would say this is the Microsoft equivalent of what

00:20:38   grouper did getting Craig Joswiak and Craig Federighi like Panos is their demo guy doesn't

00:20:46   really have a demo guy I mean maybe like Phil Schiller or something used to be that but

00:20:51   like he's the guy who demos all the new hardware especially at Microsoft I mean he also ran

00:20:59   the windows 11 presentation I would say like no no he's their demo guy now he's their presentation

00:21:04   guy right like Satya Nadella is not going to do it Panos does it and Panos is so good

00:21:10   at demos like I've said this before I got the chance to speak to him so there's no bias

00:21:17   here I think he is the best in tech right now at giving a presentation because nobody

00:21:26   makes you believe how much they believe something's good then Panos Panay like he like

00:21:34   has the ability to like make you feel genuinely emotional about the things he's talking about

00:21:39   like I'm watching the windows 11 presentation and I'm like yeah man the pandemic was hard

00:21:44   you know Panos it was he's so he's very very good and you know like you were mentioning

00:21:52   like he is very high up at Microsoft I think his boss is the CEO so I was really honored

00:21:58   that we got that Microsoft reached out to have us have that interview and I really wanted

00:22:02   to recommend people go and check it out because if you are wondering hey what's this windows

00:22:05   11 thing about I think this episode will help you understand.

00:22:08   And we're not gonna talk about windows 11 here yet although some are fun you never know

00:22:12   what might happen but I think one of the things that I took away from it like it's interesting

00:22:15   they did a bunch of interesting stuff they're trying to the interface looks good I feel

00:22:20   like maybe they at Microsoft is has reached a point where they're okay with making changes

00:22:25   and and breaking some compatibility in a way that Microsoft has never been before and you

00:22:31   see it in a couple of ways first off is the interface really does look genuinely way better

00:22:35   than it's ever looked before and I you know I think there to be congratulated for that

00:22:41   and then the other thing is that they announced the hardware support for this and they're

00:22:44   requiring essentially this hardware security chip to be present yeah and it's the equivalent

00:22:52   of the t2 essentially on an Intel Mac and they're requiring that to be present and it's

00:22:57   breaking compatibility with all sorts of old hardware in fact I have a surface go from

00:23:02   not too many years ago and it just won't work with a windows 11 because it doesn't have

00:23:07   that stuff in it and it's just like no it won't work so that's a we'll see if they stick

00:23:11   to it because you know traditionally what Microsoft has done is come out with big bold

00:23:14   announcements and then all of their partners and you know and their enormous user base

00:23:20   and all that sort of revolts and then they sort of backslide but I don't know I feel

00:23:24   like this time their answer is going to be yeah just keep using Windows 10 Windows 11

00:23:28   is about the future so I like to see that because that's been the tragedy of Microsoft

00:23:33   for the last decade plus is that they have to hold on to too much stuff yeah they have

00:23:37   great ideas and then they are basically trapped to not really implement them or backtrack

00:23:41   from them because everybody's demanding that they just remain compatible with everything

00:23:46   in the past and I think they've reached a point with Satya Nadella where Windows is

00:23:50   not the it's hard to believe but like Windows is not the point of Microsoft which with Steve

00:23:55   Ballmer Windows was the point of Microsoft and with that Nadella it's not like the Azure

00:24:00   is and Office 365 is but Windows is Windows is important obviously but it's not like the

00:24:07   point of Microsoft and Microsoft doesn't revolve around it and I think that maybe gives them

00:24:11   some freedom to do things like say we're going to build the next generation Windows that

00:24:15   breaks compatibility with a bunch of stuff and Windows 10 is still around for people

00:24:20   who are you know still for those of you still using Windows XP Windows 10 is upgradeable

00:24:26   but Windows 11 is going to be new and different and yeah really interesting what Microsoft

00:24:30   is doing so good for them and I'm glad you got to talk thank you and Austin to Panos

00:24:35   that's great.

00:24:36   Thank you.

00:24:37   Yeah it was the one frustration I have about the interview is we didn't know at this point

00:24:40   about the compatibility thing because we recorded a couple of hours after the Microsoft event

00:24:45   and the tool to check wasn't available so we didn't know about just how many devices

00:24:53   they were going to cut out and so you know it's something I want to dig into in the future

00:24:57   a little bit more as well and I guess the only other thing that I think worth mentioning

00:25:01   because it will be I think helpful context for some of the conversations we're going

00:25:05   to have later on in this episode one of the things Microsoft announced with some pretty

00:25:10   big changes to the business model of the Microsoft store which is that app store basically where

00:25:16   now they are taking a 15% cut from developers that use Microsoft payment platform but you

00:25:23   can also list your app on the Microsoft store use your own payment processing system and

00:25:30   give Microsoft nothing.

00:25:32   Right so it essentially becomes a catalog of available software for Windows which is

00:25:39   a different model right it's interesting because they originally their model was kind of an

00:25:44   app store model and they're backing off of that and I think some of that is reading the

00:25:49   room right and being like aha we can do this but also I think it it's less painful a decision

00:25:57   for them to make there's a lot of stuff that's not in the Microsoft store that now they can

00:26:02   just sort of say yeah you will list you it's fine you can do whatever because the goal

00:26:07   there is just to make it easier for consumers to find software.

00:26:10   Yeah and this is something that you can do if you don't have any apps in your app store

00:26:16   right this is something that you will do I mean but it could be argued that maybe the

00:26:20   Mac app store is in a similar boat so.

00:26:23   Yep.

00:26:24   This episode of upgrade is brought to you by Bombas.

00:26:28   Pride is a time to celebrate all things LGBTQ+ and pride also means a lot of different things

00:26:33   to a lot of different people and that's why this year Bombas is choosing to be proud in

00:26:37   every way of your sexuality, your gender, your culture all things that have shaped your

00:26:42   unique pride and they're doing it with a collection of colorful clothing inspired by all of the

00:26:47   different experiences that make up the LGBTQ+ community there is something for everyone

00:26:53   in this collection do you want socks inspired by different pride flags?

00:26:56   Bombas made some or maybe you're looking for a super soft striped rainbow shirt they have

00:27:01   those as well they even have special pride underwear which is super colorful too I was

00:27:05   looking through the collection earlier on today and some that really caught my eye they

00:27:10   have these tie dye socks that use colors from different pride flags and they look fantastic

00:27:17   but the whole range is awesome the Bombas pride collection is also designed to give

00:27:22   back for every clothing item you purchase another item will be donated to someone affected

00:27:27   by homelessness in the LGBTQ+ community homelessness disproportionately affects the entire LGBTQ+

00:27:35   population but people of color and transgender individuals within the community are even

00:27:39   more at risk that's why each donation will be going to one of three organizations working

00:27:44   specifically with transgender and BIPOC communities to shop the collection and learn more about

00:27:49   the organizations your purchase will be supporting go to bombas.com/upgrade and use the code

00:27:54   upgrade to get 20% off your first order that's bombas.com/upgrade and let me tell you as somebody

00:28:01   who wears Bombas clothing I wear Bombas socks every single day they are incredibly comfortable

00:28:07   really great I love that they stay up they have all the padding that I need they are

00:28:11   the most comfortable socks I have ever worn so not only will you be able to show your

00:28:16   pride you'll be able to support some organizations you're also going to have really comfortable

00:28:20   feet our thanks to Bombas for their support of this show and all of Relay FM

00:28:25   Let's do some upstream headlines. Upstream is where we recap some of the stuff going on in streaming digital media

00:28:31   I have some Ted Lasso related follow-up upstream for you follow-up stream

00:28:36   screentimes.net spoke to someone at Warner regarding international sales of Ted Lasso merch

00:28:43   so you remember last week I was elated that there was Ted Lasso merch and then disappointed

00:28:49   that it was not shipping internationally and Warner said that they are quote looking at

00:28:55   possibilities this means to me it's never going to happen that's I'm very used to these

00:29:00   things by now when big American companies say hey we're looking at possibilities it

00:29:05   means no it's not going to happen and Bill Lawrence has also said that higher quality

00:29:10   jerseys are going to be available in September so if you're unhappy with the t-shirt that

00:29:15   they've got for the like the football jersey shirt they're going to have actual what he

00:29:22   said like professional looking and feeling shirts with personalization available later

00:29:28   on this year.

00:29:30   Yeah it's I don't know what's going on here right like we announced that this was open

00:29:35   but it's not international and we the honestly the the merch is underwhelming there's I saw

00:29:42   somebody say in our chat room last week while we were recording they were going through

00:29:46   they were combing through the Ted Lasso merch site and somebody said it was very much a

00:29:50   design is my passion graphic design is my passion kind of vibe where it felt like I

00:29:54   mean honestly some of the some of the items feel like somebody took a you know mug maker

00:29:59   from zazzle and just put in a Ted Lasso thing and said good enough and it's too bad because

00:30:05   you look at the stuff that fans generated and it's way better and it makes me wonder

00:30:11   I know that there are some sites that do this but like harness the creativity of of fans

00:30:17   to make like to use your IP to make stuff where they get a little tiny kickback from

00:30:23   designing it but you take obviously the bulk of the profit like I you get better merch

00:30:28   that way and this stuff is really uninspired like literally there's better there's vastly

00:30:34   better Ted Lasso merch on Etsy and cotton bureau and red bubble and places like that

00:30:40   where they're unlicensed than this stuff that's in their store and and then you see Bill Lauren

00:30:47   say that they're gonna actually have they apparently have a deal with some like some

00:30:51   somebody to make actual pro style jerseys I also wonder if that some of that delay so

00:30:58   this is a very very very minor season 2 spoiler out of the trailer which is that they they

00:31:03   clearly have changed the club the fictional club has changed its sponsor its kit sponsor

00:31:09   for its next season in the in the in the league so and I kind of assume that's gonna be a

00:31:17   plot point but it might not be either way I wonder if one of the reasons that it's coming

00:31:24   in September and all of that is they actually want to have it be the season 2 kit and they

00:31:29   don't want to spoil the fact that they changed their kit in season 2 so we'll see but but

00:31:36   it's it's a little bit baffling that they've kind of booted this and I give them a little

00:31:42   bit of credit for the fact that nobody expected Ted Lasso to be a merchandise machine but

00:31:49   this is a it's it's not great stuff so oh well there's maybe there's more better stuff

00:31:55   coming the show has also won a 2021 Peabody Award quote for offering the perfect counter

00:32:02   to the enduring prevalence of toxic toxic masculinity both on screen and off in a moment

00:32:07   when the nation truly needs inspiring models of kindness yeah it's great an out of left

00:32:16   field award but an award nonetheless and for everybody's yeah Peabody's do that that's a

00:32:20   that's a very Peabody Peabody Awards are all over the place trying to honor good stuff

00:32:25   I mean like just as if you were imagining as part of Apple TV what your rewards were

00:32:31   going to be for your TV show maybe this isn't what you would have naturally expected but

00:32:36   it's great nonetheless right yep last week Apple sent out an email to subscribers letting

00:32:42   them know that the fact that their free trial period was ending and they also used this

00:32:47   as an opportunity to promote some of their upcoming shows so there's some dates for stuff

00:32:52   that we already know about or reiterations but this email confirmed that the problem

00:32:56   with Jon Stewart will premiere in September as well as foundation and today Apple released

00:33:03   a new trailer for foundation and confirmed that this was going to be premiering on September

00:33:09   24th and I watched the trailer I have never read and kind of honestly know nothing about

00:33:16   the foundation series books by Isaac Asimov and so I don't really understand what is going

00:33:23   on in the trailer like I don't know if you need contacts or it helps to have the context

00:33:29   but it looks beautiful and I'm intrigued honestly it looks like a movie with the quality of

00:33:35   special effects and stuff so so foundation was written like 70 years ago like and I read

00:33:41   it for a podcast a few years ago I read the books there there's an original trilogy and

00:33:46   then he kept writing foundation books they're they're not they're full of interesting ideas

00:33:52   I would say that in in terms of being the basis for a TV show or a movie now it's actually

00:33:57   about the right level which is it's more concerned with the ideas and the big sweep of the plot

00:34:01   than it is with the characters so in some ways I think that might be better because

00:34:05   it allows the modern writers to flesh it out from there and just sort of honor the big

00:34:12   points without having to worry too much about the individual characters but the big idea

00:34:17   of foundation is that there is a galactic empire and there's a guy who's invented this

00:34:24   technology that enables him to accurately predict the future and he says oh the Empire

00:34:31   is going to collapse in fact it's already started it's going to collapse and we have

00:34:36   a choice to make which is do we work to reduce the amount of chaos that comes to the galaxy

00:34:43   do we work so that we recover in 500 years instead of a thousand or a thousand instead

00:34:49   of two thousand get out of the Dark Ages but what he says is the Dark Ages are coming it's

00:34:54   gonna be really bad but are we willing to work and sacrifice now so that future generations

00:35:04   feel less pain and as I was watching that trailer I was thinking oh man this could not

00:35:10   be more applicable to modern society that that's kind of amazing given that this is

00:35:15   a core story from 70 years ago and Jared Harris is that guy is the the visionary guy Harry

00:35:21   Seldon and and this trailer focuses also sort of like on the the Emperor basically who's

00:35:27   a chain of I think cloned emperors and the idea of you've got people in power who are

00:35:33   being threatened and are probably also pretending that their Empire isn't crumbling but it is

00:35:38   crumbling and it looks great very interesting stuff in there so well you know you never

00:35:44   know until you see it but I could see how this is actually a gonna be relevant and a

00:35:50   winner and it certainly looks like they spared no expense like you said it's so we have a

00:35:55   date for it September 24th so not too far away.

00:35:58   Dan Harmon and Nathan Pyle are teaming up to create an animated version of Pyle's Strange

00:36:04   Planet comic for Apple TV Plus this is going to be produced in-house at Apple Studios of

00:36:10   animation production from Shadow Machine who worked on Bojack Horseman.

00:36:14   Yeah I'm I enjoy that comic I think it's very amusing I don't see how this is a series but

00:36:22   that's their problem they'll figure it out or they won't but it seems very much like

00:36:27   a one joke thing and I enjoy the individual jokes but I just as I wouldn't expect it an

00:36:32   animated series based on Alex Norris's webcomic name where every episode I guess ends with

00:36:37   them saying oh no I don't know Strange Planet feels the same way to me but obviously like

00:36:43   you could take the idea of these aliens that come to Earth and understand try to understand

00:36:49   it and like that's the story right yeah I think I think that's what you have to do is

00:36:54   you have to really expand the canvas and yeah and so we'll see I mean Dan Harmon obviously

00:36:59   got this gig because of Rick and Morty and because it's a it's sort of a you know he's

00:37:04   done he's done the animated comedy thing and and knows how to do that knows how to run

00:37:10   shows of course you're in community which is one of my favorite shows of all time and

00:37:14   Nathan Pyle is the cartoonist and they're gonna give it a shot and it's all Apple it's

00:37:18   Apple Studios in-house it's you know it's an Apple TV Plus joint so we'll see how it

00:37:23   goes they actually have a history to the Hollywood report mention this and I was looking it up

00:37:28   today to Abed used to wear like t-shirts on Community the character Abed that we have

00:37:35   some piles designs ah so assuming that these things don't happen you know randomly yeah

00:37:43   that maybe they're familiar with each other from before I I have it's funny I there's

00:37:50   a an official list of Abed shirts like there's an Abed shirts subreddit of course and I I've

00:37:59   I bought a couple of those so yeah it's it's they're good they're good lots of good lots

00:38:06   of good Abed shirts I think they all came from threadless when threadless was the thing

00:38:11   yeah I think that's right so we're outside of upstream now moving on a friend of the

00:38:16   show Mark Gurman has gotten into the newsletter game over at Bloomberg he's round writing

00:38:23   a newsletter or every week called power on and it's a it's focused on technology there's

00:38:29   some basketball thrown in there too the first issue is has been published on Bloomberg's

00:38:35   website I read it today and it's really interesting because it has his personality back into it

00:38:44   where Mark's Bloomberg writing doesn't feel like Mark Gurman is writing it if that makes

00:38:50   it's not in his voice where this is in his voice and for one I just found that good right

00:38:58   I think this is one of the things that is different from say someone like Jason Snell

00:39:04   to if Jason Snell maybe it maybe as well like the stuff that you write for Macworld is less

00:39:10   Jason Snell to a point but I'm a columnist and it's it's not really but yeah you're right

00:39:15   if I wrote at Bloomberg it would be substantially different the people said the people say there

00:39:21   was no the people say in this no article no it's it's super chatty and you know he's gonna

00:39:27   launch it with a with a tidbit right so he did yep so he did and they publish this one

00:39:32   so you know you can go and subscribe I'd subscribed anyway because I was just into it like I like

00:39:37   this idea it's free I think too I don't know what what honestly I don't know what the point

00:39:43   of that is like I'm seeing more companies do this these days they have free newsletters

00:39:48   written by colonists I think the idea here is that they're they're attaching people to

00:39:52   the colonists and then there are links in the article and the idea there is that you're

00:39:55   you're sort of making them find the value from Bloomberg as a source and ultimately

00:40:01   that that will lead to some conversion to maybe there could be ads in those newsletters

00:40:05   in the future too sure but it seems like now there are loads of newsletters that are paid

00:40:11   larger media companies are getting into newsletters that are free it's just really interesting

00:40:17   that we're moving around like this but this is kind of where we are so yeah in this first

00:40:22   issue Mark talks about how much he's using his iPad Pro now and then just casually mentions

00:40:29   that Apple testing larger iPad Pros in the 14 to 16 inch range and if they're released

00:40:36   could be sometime in the next few years yeah not he says sort of they're still working

00:40:41   on it and figuring out what the right size is so this is not a they're planning it for

00:40:44   next year as much as they're testing out larger iPads it's interesting because I've been reading

00:40:51   who was it somebody on Twitter that I saw that said that they've they've said oh here's

00:40:56   Harry McCracken who is a was the editor in chief PC world for many years and he's an

00:41:01   iPad first person and he settled on the iPad 11 inch which is interesting right because

00:41:10   I think he was a 12.9 inch user before and I'm using the 12.9 and he said I think the

00:41:16   11 inch is perfect just like the 11 inch MacBook Air was perfect and I was thinking about that

00:41:21   because on one level I really see the value in going down to a smaller iPad like it's

00:41:25   a especially the m1 version is just it's big and heavy but it would be hard for me to give

00:41:31   up that screen but I also see the other side of it which is for certain tasks you really

00:41:37   do want more and like I think the challenge I'm sure we're going to talk about this a

00:41:42   lot over the next couple of years Myke but I think the challenge of having a very large

00:41:45   iPad a 15 or 16 inch iPad is all ergonomics because you know you're not going to be waving

00:41:55   that thing around with one hand like it's going to be everything that is difficult about

00:41:59   the 12.9 taken up several levels so the question then is where do you use that is it on a desk

00:42:06   is it you know what is that magic keyboard look like if it can even have one you know

00:42:14   what what is it if you're using with Apple pencil how does that work like I'm sure that's

00:42:18   what they're struggling with when they look at this is there like what are the ergonomics

00:42:21   of a great big iPad because we already have the debate about the two iPad Pro sizes really

00:42:29   attracting different people and having issues there so I don't know I don't know what if

00:42:34   you have any thoughts about kind of big iPad or ergonomics yet because again we will revisit

00:42:39   this undoubtedly over the next couple of years as rumors percolate but like I'm fascinated

00:42:43   by that because I'm not sure I mean they're going to need to come up with some new thoughts

00:42:46   about how people hold and use iPads if they're going to try to sell a 16 inch iPad I think

00:42:52   they've already started that it's the magic keyboard like that's the start of that that's

00:42:56   you know because at that point your ergonomics are the same as a laptop you know by and large

00:43:04   it's in this thing and you open it up and you close it again right and better than you

00:43:09   have more adjustability so I think that's the start of this and I think to go further

00:43:16   to go to 14 and 16 inch they need to have another accessory I don't know what it is

00:43:20   right but like another accessory that goes along with it because I really think that

00:43:25   if you have make this iPad you kind of need to say this iPad works great here here and

00:43:30   you can also hold it but that's you know like that's the not like you hold it in your hands

00:43:36   and when you're ready you put it on your keyboard right like that's how we think about them

00:43:39   now it's more like the ads are going to show people like using an Apple pencil at a table

00:43:43   or in their lap or something right not just like holding it up and being like oh a movie

00:43:47   and I'm holding this heavy thing for a movie like you hold it in transit and then you put

00:43:52   it down onto something that it lives on like it's we're now in kind of like a different

00:43:56   space and personally like where I am I would like bigger on the higher end and deal with

00:44:05   the 11 like I think the 11 inch I'm one of these people I think 11 inch iPad pros the

00:44:08   best iPad pro the best iPad just I think it's the best I'm sure and then 12.9 is really

00:44:14   great for certain circumstances but for most people the 11 is the one that you would want

00:44:20   is the one that you should have I always say to people ask like to own a 12.9 inch iPad

00:44:26   pro you kind of need to know you want that first like if you're like hey I would like

00:44:32   an iPad don't know which one to get you probably want the 11 it would be my recommendation

00:44:38   to you the other thing that I'm it because you know this is the I want to believe thing

00:44:43   I actually wrote a piece about this at Macworld this week or last week which is the the continuing

00:44:51   drumbeat of all the reasons why as I've talked about on upgrade before the reasons why I

00:44:56   believe Apple is going to a windowing system or something with iPad OS and I actually did

00:45:05   I did a mock-up of like what a 5k display with iPad stuff on it would look like using

00:45:10   existing for the most part existing iPad user interface stuff from iPad OS 15 and the answer

00:45:15   is it looks kind of kind of good it looks kind of like a Mac but not because it's an

00:45:20   iPad and like I will throw in this idea of a 16 inch iPad like at some point full screen

00:45:29   or even split view apps when the screen becomes large become not just kind of ridiculous but

00:45:36   inefficient in the use of space on the screen and although I know there are people who like

00:45:43   you open Photoshop on your Mac and your 27 inch iMac and you put it in full screen mode

00:45:47   and you just got the content there well that's great but 99.9% of the time I use the Mac

00:45:53   I have multiple apps and multiple windows up and that's how that's how I can be efficient

00:45:58   I think there's some fundamental efficiency to be gained by allowing you to interleave

00:46:03   several apps and have them all visible or partially visible in terms of having it be

00:46:08   a visual way of understanding that multitasking is going on and I think the iPad is going

00:46:12   to have to grapple with this in some way whether it's full-on floating windows or it's a tiling

00:46:17   system like what Microsoft is experimenting with a little bit more with Windows 11 like

00:46:22   whatever it is I think Apple has to do something otherwise there's a point at which the iPad

00:46:28   OS breaks concept breaks down and like the concept came from the iPhone the concept came

00:46:35   from the fact the iPhone screen is so small it can only run one thing at a time but like

00:46:38   they've been over the last five years been hammering away at the idea that the iPad is

00:46:43   different and it's it's got that bigger screen and you can put more information on it but

00:46:48   at some point here they're going to have to go beyond full screen and split view and the

00:46:53   fact that they're experimenting with center floating windows and quick note which is literally

00:46:58   a floating window on top of other content from a different app like it's literally this

00:47:03   one almost Mac window that escaped to the iPad like they're obviously experimenting

00:47:09   with this stuff so when I hear about them experimenting with a 14 to 16 inch iPad Pro

00:47:14   I think that's yet another like challenge for them that could potentially be solved

00:47:19   by the same things that they're hopefully doing to try and solve what happens if you

00:47:23   attach an iPad Pro to a large display and allow apps to just run on it instead of using

00:47:31   it as a secondary because you got to do something because you know I love my iPad apps but I

00:47:35   don't want any of them to be full screen or even split view on a 27 inch monitor that's

00:47:40   ridiculous in this newsletter Mark Gorman also talks about changes to the Apple have

00:47:47   been making to their stellar in existence and working self-driving car team they've

00:47:52   removed some people they've made some changes but one of the key hires that they made recently

00:47:57   is Orick Krantz who helped oversee the i3 and the i8 at BMW and has held key positions

00:48:04   at companies like Faraday Future which is a new electric car company so they're continuing

00:48:08   to do something does this consist up of is this an upshift segment or is it too small

00:48:15   to be an upshift segment I think it's too small to be an upshift segment at some point

00:48:19   that will come back it is going to come back we have a car we have a car segment that we

00:48:23   can do but anyway this guy got hired so you wouldn't hire somebody if you weren't working

00:48:29   on a car so there you go this episode of upgrade is brought to you by instabug building mobile

00:48:36   apps presents some challenges bugs crashes and performance issues can be a nightmare

00:48:41   for developers but what if you could not only detect all of these issues but understand

00:48:45   the quality of your app from your users point of view instabug's lightweight SDK grabs all

00:48:50   of the insights that you need to help you build your quality apps through comprehensive

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00:48:59   SDK with instabug you can continuously monitor and measure the performance of your app as

00:49:05   perceived by your users engage with them by letting them report issues and questions right

00:49:09   from inside the app itself and get all of the information that you need about bugs crashes

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00:49:21   and you don't have to worry about the hassle of switching to new tools it only takes a

00:49:25   minute to integrate instabug into your app and it fits right within your existing workloads

00:49:29   for support for dura slack trello github zendesk or wherever you use to handle your issues

00:49:36   you're going to be able to have instabug right there join over 25 000 top mobile developers

00:49:42   around the world who use instabug to ship high quality apps go to try dot instabug dot

00:49:48   com slash upgrade fm that's try dot instabug dot com slash upgrade fm and check it out

00:49:56   today our thanks to instabug for their support of this show and relay fm breaking news okay

00:50:04   breaking news uh monterrey beta 2 was released just now okay uh and last week late last week

00:50:13   we got beta 2 of ios and ipad os yes you're keeping score so everybody was sort of saying

00:50:19   what where's the mac what happened there i don't know what happened the mac engineers

00:50:23   have to work over the weekend or something but uh that beta is out now so uh the beta

00:50:29   summer of betas summer beta fun has finally reached the mac thank goodness let's talk

00:50:36   about oh boy i i have this i have this titled as apple legislation and side loading and

00:50:47   there's quite a lot of stuff going on here um and i guess we'll kind of just try and

00:50:54   attack of it tack it as much as we can today yeah so there were just a lot of things happening

00:51:00   last week i mean there's been a lot of things happening anyway but it started again last

00:51:05   week so the new york times had a report that states that tim cook has been reaching out

00:51:09   to various members of congress to talk about how the potential antitrust legislation currently

00:51:14   being debated in congress could have serious effects on the way that the company does business

00:51:19   cook is concerned that the legislation was rushed and would crimp innovation the bills

00:51:25   that tim cook is concerned about are pretty wide ranging they came out of that antitrust

00:51:31   commission committee that was bringing all of the tech ceos in over zoom to talk to a

00:51:36   matter of months ago so it's and it's very unlikely that the five bills will all be passed

00:51:42   i mean mostly because uh i learned all this stuff from ben thompson you should you should

00:51:46   read and subscribe to checkery but really these a lot of the bills they overlap in weird

00:51:51   ways um and and it's likely that maybe only one of them will get passed in its entirety

00:51:57   of all but there is a strong possibility that something will get through congress as a result

00:52:02   of this which would likely have an effect on apple's businesses in some ways it could

00:52:07   be stuff like limiting what apps are pre-installed on devices and making users choose it could

00:52:13   limit the types of businesses apple are allowed to get into it could force them to give up

00:52:17   some of the businesses that they're currently in and could require them to make changes

00:52:22   to app store economics or have rival app stores available for the platform it is also worth

00:52:28   noting this isn't just an american thing there's a lot of stuff happening in the european union

00:52:34   as well i mean it's gotten far further in the european union um where really with with

00:52:40   the thing with spotify that i think we touched on a while ago it's just a case of waiting

00:52:44   to see what are they going to say apple has to do it's not you know they've already come

00:52:48   to that conclusion really so this is just another of those things i mean you would assume

00:52:53   naturally apple cares most about what happens in america um so that's kind of where we are

00:53:01   with that part of it my kind of take on this part is if any of these laws do get passed

00:53:08   it kind of feels like apple's greed and or desire for control could result in the iphone

00:53:15   being worse for its users right i think again ben thompson put this really nicely apple's

00:53:22   best feature is its integration in the operating system with the apps and services that it

00:53:26   makes but because they so harshly limit and put in such peculiar and i think wrong seeming

00:53:33   rules and limitations of some parts of their apps or business they actually risk the ability

00:53:38   to keep this integration alive and that could not only make things worse for them actually

00:53:43   ultimately could make things worse for apple's customers as well because they won't let go

00:53:47   a little bit yeah i mean imagine a world where you get an iphone and it has no apps on it

00:53:53   yeah or like you know you look at something um like quick note right apple wouldn't be

00:54:02   allowed to do that because unless they said every other notes app can do this too which

00:54:07   would be kind of great but they're unlikely honestly to even make that feature if that's

00:54:14   what they're told they have to do i think the general idea there is that you need space

00:54:18   to innovate without being told that innovation has to be checked by a court or that you know

00:54:25   or you have a lawyer say no you can't add that feature even though it would make people's

00:54:29   lives better because it we're not allowed to do that and so nobody does it and and you

00:54:35   know i think and this is going to be true when we talk about apple's uh white paper

00:54:40   that they released last week as well but i think there is an argument to be made that

00:54:48   it's not all doom and gloom if we if you end up in a scenario where every time apple announces

00:54:55   so let's let's talk about this um the the feature in ios ipad os 15 and macos monterey

00:55:02   where your messages content gets put in other apps right so when you're in news or safari

00:55:11   or um where else photos anyway it surfaces content that's been shared with you via messages

00:55:19   and we talked about it after the keynote like on one level that's cool on another level

00:55:25   in the context of a developer conference my immediate reaction is why is it only for apple's

00:55:29   apps why is that not an api and so you know you could make an argument that what what

00:55:34   ideally if there was going to be legislation like this it wouldn't be you can't do it it

00:55:39   would be you can do this but you need to let other people you need to build an api that

00:55:45   you use that is public and available to other developers not something that's private and

00:55:50   just for apple so the model changes the model becomes apple has to build this thing with

00:55:57   an api and the goal is to make the platform better but not to make its to lock people

00:56:02   into its apps but to instead make the platform better and all of its competition third-party

00:56:08   add-ons could also take advantage of it that's the that's the ideal and i think is not unreasonable

00:56:15   however the problem is anything like this is going to have huge amounts of fallout that

00:56:19   are unintended and just what immediately comes to mind is apple is less likely to be motivated

00:56:25   to build these things if they have to do more work and also it doesn't benefit their apps

00:56:30   as much as it did before even if the right thing to do is always to open things up also

00:56:36   keep in mind sometimes apple strategy is they build it and then they iterate on it and then

00:56:41   they release the api for other people to use it and they use themselves as a test case

00:56:45   and they use themselves to explore and then they then ideally they then kind of release

00:56:50   it for everybody else and what a law like like that would suggest if they constrain

00:56:55   that would be you can't do it that way you have to sort of go out with the first one

00:57:00   which might delay features or kill features altogether plus they're all we we saw this

00:57:04   with the uh the acts that happened during the clinton administration that were various

00:57:10   sort of like early internet laws that had all sorts of weird spin-off issues that were

00:57:18   not intended but uh and that that's the other concern about something like this so i don't

00:57:23   want to i don't want to poo-poo it entirely because i think there is an argument to be

00:57:26   made but i think that it as with a lot of this legislation it ends up being you're trying

00:57:30   to fix this issue that is not necessarily the right issue to worry about and in doing

00:57:36   so what you're going to have is a whole lot of unintended consequences that are going

00:57:40   to lead to a worse experience for users and that's who you're supposed to be protecting

00:57:48   um right that's the challenge is have you really made life better for third-party app

00:57:54   developers have you really made life better for users um and on a on a macro level the

00:58:01   reason that i think a lot of this stuff is probably not bet on it not changing is i'm

00:58:06   not sure any politician wants to be seen i know they want to be seen as standing up to

00:58:10   big tech at the same time these are american companies that dominate technology and industry

00:58:16   all over the world and i'm not sure any american politician ultimately wants to be seen as

00:58:22   the people who killed america's strongest companies so i'm a little skeptical of it

00:58:31   so you think i mean if you were going to just maybe make a bet you think that some of that

00:58:35   this stuff wouldn't get through congress my my if i had to predict and i'm i'm probably

00:58:40   i don't i'm glad i don't have to uh but my guess is that a lot of it will get watered

00:58:43   down however uh the the because what politicians really want is they want to look good they

00:58:52   don't necessarily want to change the world they just want to look good and get re-elected

00:58:57   and be able to use this as a way of getting re-elected and ultimately you've got democrats

00:59:03   in power who who are uh generally you know the democrats want one thing the republicans

00:59:10   want a different thing the republicans um don't even talk about a lot of this uh business

00:59:15   regulation stuff because they're they're fundamentally they're kind of against it they're really

00:59:18   all talking about like why are conservative voices silenced on facebook and twitter yeah

00:59:22   that's their speech concerns yeah than antitrust whereas democrats are more skeptical of big

00:59:28   business and and to a to a point can they can they find some common ground there's not

00:59:33   a lot of common ground to be found in washington at all and and where they find it uh is a

00:59:39   mystery but but here's the thing that that i that baffles me about this is sure seems

00:59:44   to me like this is at a point now where if you're uh one of the big tech companies you

00:59:51   yes you need to be calling people and expressing your concern um you also need to show a level

00:59:57   of uh of if not contrition then at least a level of understanding that perhaps uh the

01:00:05   way you've done business up to now is not conducive to you know the way that the the

01:00:12   public wants this business to be conducted or that the politicians want this business

01:00:16   to be conducted in the future and um i see very little evidence of that from apple the

01:00:23   fact that apple released a white paper with lots of illustrations and a lot of hypotheticals

01:00:29   that's kind of on point and also kind of really missing the point suggests to me that they're

01:00:36   still not like if we expected apple to come out and be like all right let's let's make

01:00:41   a deal here i don't know i would i don't think i would have expected them to react like this

01:00:45   and that's that's the part that gets me is i think the one way you can guarantee that

01:00:49   they're going to move against you is if you're completely obstinate you know are you going

01:00:52   all in is apple going all in and saying um try to try to change us right like that seems

01:00:58   like the wrong tack to take here but you know maybe they figure it nothing is nothing particular

01:01:04   is going to pass but the the challenge is that uh some legislation could really break

01:01:08   apart like the fundamental secret sauce of apple and that is that's bad that's really

01:01:13   an existential threat to apple so the white paper that jason's talking about it was published

01:01:20   a couple of days after this this new york times report came out or maybe it's even the

01:01:23   same day um this is also last week this white paper is talking about the risks of allowing

01:01:30   side loading of apps on the iphone so this would be having an ability to install apps

01:01:35   from either outside of the app store directly from the web like you can on the mac or from

01:01:41   a secondary store also like you can on the mac like steam or something like that right

01:01:47   and android has these function these functionalities so apple state that this would be a serious

01:01:53   risk to the security of the ios platform they cite malicious software and malware being

01:01:58   15 times higher on android uh quote i'll give a couple of quotes allowing side loading would

01:02:04   spur a flood of new investment into attacks on the platform and users would have to constantly

01:02:10   be on the lookout for scams never knowing who or what to trust and as a result many

01:02:15   users would download fewer apps from fewer developers my initial thinking is like if

01:02:23   apple know that like why don't you just create a secure operating system to account for it

01:02:29   and my thinking is you already do don't you right so like one of the things that they

01:02:33   reference they give all these as jason mentioned these illustrated examples that are like meant

01:02:39   to like scare you i honestly feel like they've written a picture book for me which is really

01:02:44   uh um patronizing they talk about an app being able to hold all of your photos ransom unless

01:02:53   you pay up and that makes sense if an app had free reign of the operating system and

01:02:59   my expectation is photo permissions should stop this otherwise like an app could do this

01:03:06   anyway if i gave it the right permissions on ios right like provided it got through

01:03:11   app review like i don't really you know their their whole this is one of my big complaints

01:03:18   and i i i am wondering what the motivation is for this because also of all the topics

01:03:24   side loading is the one that comes out maybe it's just that they had this thing that they

01:03:27   were working on in the background and they decided that they would add it to the pile

01:03:31   but i part of me say this is the most likely outcome no well so here's the thing part of

01:03:36   me thinks that what they're really doing is building a straw man that is this spooky scary

01:03:45   world of side loading so that then they can offer a counter proposal which involves them

01:03:51   changing some of their policies right okay like so you set up the side loading it's like

01:03:56   who specifically said what we're going to do is for side loading i'm not sure it's really

01:04:03   that it's more like apple wants to raise this monster so that then it can say hey we've

01:04:08   got some other options but in building this straw man yes there's all these questions

01:04:12   of like you know they don't talk about how on mac os they've built in all of these solutions

01:04:18   involving uh notarization and uh developer certificates that have to be signed and it's

01:04:24   not the wild west and in fact you could you could even say that if apple had to do it's

01:04:30   very much like if we were caused oh no if we were told to do side loading it would be

01:04:33   very bad because we would be unable to stop it but the truth is that if apple was mandated

01:04:38   to do side loading but still had some latitude what it would do is do something very much

01:04:44   like what happened on the mac which is they they have built up all sorts of structures

01:04:48   that aren't quite app store approval but do limit what gets approved they do have a kill

01:04:53   switch they could very much say like you can't use these apis we will scan for those those

01:04:58   will be turned off like it's not as scary as they would have you believe and i'll also

01:05:05   point out that um we've seen on android that although it it can happen it happens on the

01:05:14   mac too they talk people into turning off security and installing malware like it can

01:05:21   happen it would be an issue but i don't think it would be necessarily the dystopia that

01:05:25   apple portrays it and this is actually a huge reason why most people would stay in the app

01:05:31   store if side loading was allowed because even epic discovered when they did side loading

01:05:37   for fortnight on the google play store uh initially that it was it wasn't good enough

01:05:44   and they complained about it and they said oh it's all these warnings and they keep reminding

01:05:48   you that it's that it's a it's a danger and it's too much trouble and so they went back

01:05:53   in the google play store with fortnight because it was too much of a problem like that would

01:05:59   probably happen so it's a very peculiar thing where apple is describing something that is

01:06:05   more extreme than i think it would actually be that it's it's assuming that apple wouldn't

01:06:09   take measures against it which i unless they were precluded by the law to take measures

01:06:13   against it they would add a lot of similar security measures to what they have on mac

01:06:18   os and it makes me wonder again if what they're really trying to do here is just throw the

01:06:24   you know make everybody terrified about the um about the the risks of of uh of side loading

01:06:32   so that they can offer an alternative that's an interesting point i mean there is the parallel

01:06:39   of you know this is also i'm sure help is is a thing that they also want to have out

01:06:44   there for the epic case right because this is one of the things that uh tim sweden wants

01:06:48   is not an app store but they are this this this paper is definitely doing multiple jobs

01:06:55   for them i think or at least is their attempt um on this idea of like like they're focused

01:07:00   they focus a lot on uh malware right right but scams is also a part of this and it may

01:07:07   be a bigger part i want to read a quote from john porter at the verge as i thought this

01:07:11   really nicely summed it up critics have pushed back against apple's claims about security

01:07:15   of apps in its store despite apple's assurances that it has a 500 plus strong team reviewing

01:07:21   around 100 000 new apps and updates every week there have been numerous examples of

01:07:25   scam apps slipping through its checks including some that hide casinos and kids apps or others

01:07:31   that charge extortionately high subscription fees it's like this is it right like side

01:07:37   loading sure you make stuff would get through that you wouldn't want but app review doesn't

01:07:43   protect it either so that is there's just yeah there is a a whole line through this

01:07:51   of how some of apple's arguments i feel would be more convincing if apple was behaving differently

01:08:01   in the real world right and this is a good example if apple could point to the app store

01:08:08   and say we have spent a lot of time over the last 10 years ensuring that there's no malware

01:08:15   there are no scams we patrol that app store it is squeaky clean and i know that apple

01:08:21   has put out things john grouber linked to something the other week about like the sheer

01:08:24   volume of uh accounts they disable and apps they kick off the store and the rejections

01:08:30   they do and all that but like it doesn't change the story which is and yet all sorts of scam

01:08:36   apps are on the store so much so that if you make an effort to look for them you can find

01:08:42   them easily right like there's that guy who is out there on twitter basically listing

01:08:46   off scams of the day and it was relatively easy to find them and they don't seem to be

01:08:52   punished probably because they make money for apple but maybe because they're just not

01:08:57   paying attention it doesn't really matter but i think it's a lot harder to make this

01:09:00   case if you're apple if you can't point to what you're doing now and say look how look

01:09:06   how safe it is look how clean it is look look at why you want to stay with us in our app

01:09:12   store model because we're uh squeaky clean and they're not like they're not they haven't

01:09:17   made that enough of an effort to do that um and the same way goes for a lot of um of areas

01:09:28   where it's not about scams it's about apple wanting to protect what it has or make more

01:09:35   money like again most people would stay in the app store they wouldn't go they would

01:09:40   there would be warnings about installing other stuff and they would scare people away and

01:09:44   it's exactly the effect that epic talked about in the google play store most people aren't

01:09:47   going to want to go to the apps outside the app store most people are going to not want

01:09:51   to go outside of uh apple's payment system i think because it's super convenient and

01:09:57   much better than bringing in your credit card and putting it in an app or in a web page

01:10:02   right i feel like apples but they'll have to compete and that might mean they have to

01:10:06   change their terms but they could do it they just choose not to um you put in our show

01:10:11   notes this quote from uh eric new and schwander who is the head of user privacy at apple uh

01:10:18   talking to fast company um saying you know sideloading actually eliminates choice um

01:10:24   because right now you're you you are uh tricked or duped into a dark alley and so then you're

01:10:30   just not going to do what i don't know what you want to do this is one of the the like

01:10:35   the most like you said because right you said because there is no because in this quote

01:10:41   like he doesn't actually ever really like no a bow on that state he just says it and

01:10:46   moves on eliminates choice it's free well freedom is strength and or what is it uh weakness

01:10:51   is strength it's it's we have always been at war it's double double speak it is it is

01:10:55   it is nonsense and in fact what it reminded me of is steve jobs who once said about the

01:10:59   ipad um uh what do you mean we don't offer you freedom we offer you freedom freedom from

01:11:05   programs that steal your data uh freedom from porn uh and you know anybody who tells you

01:11:12   that by preventing you from getting something they're supplying you with freedom um don't

01:11:17   believe them that's that's nonsense that's double speak that's that's that's just bizarre

01:11:23   madness so uh what i want to bring up is uh what apple doesn't really talk about is like

01:11:30   apple just like apple doesn't patrol the app store enough apple also doesn't want to talk

01:11:35   about the fact that they just suppress kinds of apps that they don't want to exist on their

01:11:39   platforms and it you know they can sometimes cloak it in the idea of protection but the

01:11:46   cloak varies in its coverage let's say sometimes the mask slips a little bit more but like

01:11:54   if you think about xbox game pass right apple views streaming games as an existential threat

01:12:01   so they're just not going to allow them on their platform now they can get around it

01:12:04   in the browser but like microsoft one had an app and they were ready to roll that out

01:12:09   on ios they beta tested it in test flight and apple said nope and and their reason they

01:12:14   gave a reason but their reason was ridiculous because the real reason yeah the real reason

01:12:20   is they don't they don't like the idea of uh people playing streamed games on their

01:12:27   hardware because it's going to make it harder for them to have their own you know apple

01:12:32   arcade and their own game library in the app store they don't they don't want it they don't

01:12:36   want it well that i guess is their right as the platform owner right but let's not kid

01:12:41   ourselves one of the reasons that apple doesn't want side loading is because apple wants to

01:12:46   control everything that's on their platform and it's not always for the user's benefit

01:12:51   users would benefit by having xbox game pass on the system users would benefit apple does

01:12:57   not make that decision for users it makes it for its own personal gain whether it's

01:13:03   on hardware sales or whether it's on app they're cut of app money apple makes that decision

01:13:08   that way there are also all sorts of categories of apps that don't exist on on the ios app

01:13:13   store because again not because they don't work but because apple doesn't want them there

01:13:18   it used to be a lot more strict than it is now but there's still like very limited ways

01:13:22   to implement development tools you can't do emulators or there's a very limited set of

01:13:26   emulators that you can do also the developers of those tools that are on the store have

01:13:31   to feel like the the sword of damocles is hanging over their head at all times because

01:13:36   apple can change its mind and say oh we said that was okay but we had a conversation at

01:13:41   a high level about apple's long-term strategy and what benefits apple and we're going to

01:13:45   take it off the store is it because of a user benefit not really not generally it's not

01:13:50   and so that's that's my frustration with this white paper is it's apple saying look we control

01:13:55   everything to protect you but what is true is they control everything to protect you

01:14:00   and to exert whatever control they need to do to make more money for apple yeah and again

01:14:07   if that wasn't the case apple's arguments would be stronger and so i come back to the

01:14:14   fact that i wonder is the goal here to set this up so that apple can then come in and

01:14:20   say well what we propose is a little more opening up of things in the existing app store

01:14:27   structure instead of blowing aside in the app store because that would be bad but like

01:14:32   the i think sometimes about a decade plus of ios development app development and a lot

01:14:37   of great apps out there i love the platform how many apps groundbreaking life-changing

01:14:44   maybe world-changing apps don't exist because either apple wouldn't approve it or it will

01:14:54   require a level of investment not knowing if apple would approve it or kick it out after

01:15:00   they've approved it yeah and so there's a chilling effect and they just don't do it

01:15:05   and that's where we are with the app store being the only path forward and there's there

01:15:12   you know sideloading is not the only solution here the other solution is that apple changes

01:15:16   its policies but apple is very self-interested up to this point in not wanting to bother

01:15:21   changing its policies and and you know the only option is not sideloading the other option

01:15:26   is apple opens up the app store to more kinds of apps i know for me i would argue on apple's

01:15:35   side of sideloading because it does open up potential risks right like there are there

01:15:44   is a potential for things to get into the store that wouldn't get onto people's phones

01:15:49   that wouldn't be good they'll pretend to be something else stuff that would get caught

01:15:53   by app review right i would be on their side if the app store rules were fairer but considering

01:16:00   i don't think the app store rules are fair considering where we are today if apple refuses

01:16:07   to make changes to those rules then i want the ability for that to be sideloading so

01:16:12   there can be increased competition so apple can be can have their feet held to the fire

01:16:17   to do a better job and like so when i talk about fair i took i think 30 is too high considering

01:16:24   what developers get um i think people should be able to use their own payment methods if

01:16:29   they want to why should they not be able to why is apple pay or like apple's payment system

01:16:34   the only way that things can be done basically what we were talking about what microsoft's

01:16:38   doing right um i think app review is mostly fine you know i think there needs to be changes

01:16:45   but you know it's like i agree with everything you said by the way right like i think that

01:16:49   the rules need to be clearer and they need to open up the types of apps that they'll

01:16:54   be let in but honestly so many of the problems that we have of app review are actually not

01:16:59   about the rules of app review for the sake of why apps need to be reviewed the the issues

01:17:04   are the money part it is like the app review rules that are written to ensure that the

01:17:12   in-app purchase is maintained that's my main issue with app review and it is going like

01:17:18   that's the issue with xbox game pass for example yeah right the the whole argument about side

01:17:25   loading like like i appreciate that i can run any app on the mac that i want and i have

01:17:32   to go through some security settings and and all that but i can do it i appreciate that

01:17:37   i wouldn't mind that on the on the ipad and the iphone however i do understand the size

01:17:44   of the market and the fact that it's a lot of even more non-technical users than on the

01:17:49   mac by a lot that you risk having you know thousands or millions of people who will be

01:17:54   taken through similar kind of scams to what we've seen on the mac where they're asked

01:17:58   to lower their security and install a thing and they get talked into it because they don't

01:18:01   understand it and they end up in a place that's bad and that even if apple makes every effort

01:18:06   to stop that that that is going to happen like i get i get it like i think that the

01:18:11   apple's white paper is a little bit is disingenuous but there are serious security issues with

01:18:17   side loading but why are we even talking about side loading we're talking about side loading

01:18:21   because there's no other option and apple's so restrictive on what happens in the store

01:18:28   so you're not left like if you're an ios developer and you want to do something and apple doesn't

01:18:32   want you to do it you literally can't do it and and you could say well you go to another

01:18:36   platform if you're an ios developer and your skill set is on apple's platforms you can't

01:18:40   go to another platform not easily are you gonna you're basically saying retrain like

01:18:44   you need to retrain for a different industry because this industry doesn't exist anymore

01:18:49   or doesn't want you here anymore and that that's the challenge here is that like i think

01:18:54   the standard in a completely closed environment like the app store for flexibility for the

01:19:00   developers who are in it should be higher like one of the other if you don't want to

01:19:05   do side loading that's fine what is your other offer and you you detailed it and i like i

01:19:12   said i think this may be kind of part of a ploy it's an initial gambit for them to ultimately

01:19:16   offer an alternative to side loading that allows them to kind of back off on some of

01:19:21   this stuff it may even be a negotiating tactic with with the legislators to say what you

01:19:27   know basically what can we give you to not do the side loading thing because it's really

01:19:30   bad but i and you know it might change in ways that developers don't like to i want

01:19:38   to make that point like okay well what if they reduce their cut it's like okay well

01:19:43   they could do that but they may do some other they may start okay let's take xcode cloud

01:19:46   for an example xcode cloud is going to be a service that developers have to pay for

01:19:51   they have to pay apple to do their hosted stuff it's a it's not covered in your developer

01:19:56   account as far as we know pricing to be announced later but it's not going to be covered in

01:19:59   your developer account well that's an interesting precedent to set right that is another place

01:20:04   where apple is going to charge its developers we've talked a lot and i know you've talked

01:20:08   about it on connected as well about the idea that apple bought dark sky and they've extended

01:20:13   the dark sky api a year but there's this thought like there are a lot of sleazy weather apps

01:20:18   out there there are a lot of great weather apps out there weather data is complicated

01:20:22   apple uh you know dark sky is buying and data and then offering people access to that data

01:20:28   and there's a business model there and we've talked about what if they offered a weather

01:20:33   kit to app developers and said this is how you do your weather and you use the dark sky

01:20:37   api which is now instead it's weather kit and but as we know and have been reminded by some

01:20:43   upgrade ian's there is a cost to that data it doesn't just appear out of nowhere dark

01:20:48   sky gets it from data providers well i was thinking that's an example where like and

01:20:55   i know this like i know this is going to sound wild but like well maybe apple charges for

01:21:00   it maybe if you're a developer who wants to use weather kit you have to pay apple for

01:21:06   it it's a it's a an os framework that you have to pay for access to could be like there's

01:21:12   all sorts of things they could do that would be radically different that would be ways

01:21:16   that developers might be unhappy but that would be and and that's that that's part of

01:21:21   the unintended consequences of all of this right like it's going to be messier than you

01:21:26   think it's going to be no matter what happens but in the end i can't look at that side loading

01:21:33   paper without rolling my eyes at how extreme its examples are and all the things that it

01:21:39   misses and make myself wonder surely this is part of a larger strategy and the best

01:21:46   i've come up with is they want to make this so scary that they can put in it in the context

01:21:52   of what changes they want to make in order to keep their exclusivity on the app store

01:21:57   and would i be okay if we never had side loading on i on ios and ipad os yeah i mean we've

01:22:03   survived this long um and i am really open to the idea that even if apple did its best

01:22:09   work that they would you're opening to another level of kind of scaminess but it's also a

01:22:15   solution to a problem that apple can solve its own its itself right it's a it's a solution

01:22:21   to a problem that apple causes by its policies and and if apple's proposing that it can't

01:22:28   you can't do the solution and it's not going to change its policies that seems really dumb

01:22:32   so i have to kind of assume that it's it's don't do this because instead let's just modify

01:22:38   our policies but if they really believe that they can keep their control over the app store

01:22:43   the way it is and avoid this side loading as a as a potential threat it's a huge risk

01:22:50   right like they detailed their own fears about it it's a huge risk if they don't change their

01:22:54   policies they're risking making their platform worse at some point you gotta you gotta recalibrate

01:23:00   and say no that's a mistake honestly at this point i don't even know what they're fighting

01:23:05   for anymore i really i can't like the the billions of dollars a year like is that what

01:23:12   you're fighting for like is that amount of money that important you know this whatever

01:23:19   small percentage of the revenue every year like is that the point is it so the services

01:23:26   chart got like what is what's the fight for i don't understand anymore like it's it's

01:23:32   so frustrating because look very clearly we love apple right we love the products that

01:23:37   they make we love so much of what they do but this is like it's so tiring to me like

01:23:45   what are you what is the outcome you're looking for from this like do you think that if you

01:23:50   keep like you keep doing this like people are gonna go oh all right then so i talked

01:23:55   uh last week i think i mentioned michael gardenberg uh the analyst who used to uh work at apple

01:24:00   um i followed him before and i knew him before and then he went inside at apple and and then

01:24:06   he he left apple and he still doesn't talk about the apple stuff too much but something

01:24:10   he said um that struck me this week was apple has within it this culture that is the near-death

01:24:21   near bankruptcy culture of when steve jobs came back right because apple's corporate

01:24:26   culture is almost entirely based on steve jobs changing the culture when he returned

01:24:31   and sweeping people away and inst and we talked about it with their work from home policies

01:24:35   and like all comes from steve jobs and it has benefited them by far more than it has

01:24:40   it has hurt them however apple was about to go out of business and steve jobs instilled

01:24:47   a lot of a combination of apple being in a really rough state and i think steve jobs

01:24:52   his own personality and his own particular quirks apple has a culture which is we take

01:24:58   every last dollar we can every last dollar we can and it's a it's a strategy that maybe

01:25:05   doesn't win a lot of friends but you can understand it when you are the hard scrabble almost went

01:25:11   out of business doesn't dominate any market is you know scraping by for eight percent

01:25:17   market share and they take every dollar like i get it but does somebody need to tell them

01:25:23   who they are so this is this is what i'm saying is is now they're not that and yet that culture

01:25:30   persists the world right so this is now hey changing corporate culture is hard it is i

01:25:38   did it you know i tried i fought that that monster the corporate culture monster at idg

01:25:44   for a long long time it's very hard to change corporate culture and so i that's my diagnosis

01:25:51   from the outside is apple has that in its culture because of its near-death experience

01:25:57   that was again 20 plus years ago and they're now the biggest company around more or less

01:26:07   but it's still in there and my guess is that these are different parts of apple that are

01:26:11   probably fighting each other internally which is there's a part of apple that if you couple

01:26:16   its take every dollar off the table with its kind of also instilled by steve jobs arrogance

01:26:23   that it believes that it creates all value on its platforms and that everybody else is

01:26:27   along for the ride which steve jobs absolutely believed and the source of a lot of developer

01:26:34   disenchantment with apple's attitude toward them can be traced to that which is i think

01:26:38   that to this day there are lots of executives at apple who if you really press them on it

01:26:43   would insist that apple is the one that makes it valuable apple's the one that makes the

01:26:52   iphone valuable you know apple doesn't give 30 of iphone sales to developers right but

01:26:58   i would argue that without third-party apps the iphone would never have succeeded right

01:27:03   but apple can't do it they can't admit that someone other than apple is shares the responsibility

01:27:11   for the success of their products they can't admit it that's also a steve jobs thing so

01:27:16   when i look at this i am really seeing a company that is being pushed and the pressure keeps

01:27:21   increasing to have to give in to accept that one of the illusions of their corporate culture

01:27:30   is no longer valid and what's terrifying about it as somebody who likes their products is

01:27:37   i'm not entirely sure that they won't commit business suicide in order to hold to those

01:27:43   beliefs because that's what it's looking like like it probably won't happen but imagine

01:27:49   a world where apple is forced to break itself apart and ship iphones without built-in software

01:27:54   or split off its os business from its hardware business at which point it's lost all of the

01:27:59   things that make apple and apple's products what they are um so i you know if i could

01:28:05   be a fly on the wall in these meetings i'm really fascinated by this because like you

01:28:09   can see it you can see it in the emails you can see it in that white paper there is really

01:28:13   this belief at apple uh that is that you know they need to control everything and they need

01:28:19   to take every dollar off the table and even in situations where it's clear that they could

01:28:25   have gotten the heat off of them a long time ago they haven't made those decisions like

01:28:30   even when they and even when they make a decision like that like with the small business program

01:28:34   where they cut the cut of app developers who make a million dollars or less uh to 15 from

01:28:40   30 even there it's so riddled with footnotes and you know they didn't just say we're cutting

01:28:48   it to 15 they're like well for the for the people who are under a million we're cutting

01:28:52   it to 15 but if they go over a million then they're out of the program for a year and

01:28:55   they've got to apply to come back in and like they didn't need to do that they could have

01:28:58   said the first million but somebody in there is like oh i can't let epic have the first

01:29:02   million at 15 we we can't do that we got to take that money from them so yeah it's i'm

01:29:10   not saying i i do think apple needs to change i think that if you're somebody who believes

01:29:14   no everything apple's doing is great um the truth is that uh have you seen what's going

01:29:19   on in the legislatures and with the regulators like there is increasing pressure and politicians

01:29:26   do want to win and something's going to have to give and you know i i anyway i think the

01:29:32   challenge really is that there are very closely held beliefs that apple has that were built

01:29:37   up by steve jobs and as much as after steve jobs died they said um you know don't do don't

01:29:44   ask yourself what would steve do um the truth is that apple's corporate culture is steve

01:29:50   jobs's ultimate product and this is a tough one to change so that that's the best i can

01:29:56   come up with about why they're acting this way is that they even in the face of all of

01:30:01   this they just can't bear to give back money and give back a little bit of control because

01:30:10   that's how they got here and so they don't want to change it this episode of upgrade

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01:32:47   for their support of this show and relay fm hey mike that last segment was sure fun wasn't

01:32:52   it let's have some fun let's cleanse our palettes

01:32:55   summer fun fun ask upgrade brian asks oh i don't know what that last part it was a summary

01:33:08   laser i don't know very firing off and it was all pinks and and aquas very cute very

01:33:13   cute i love it all right summer grilling gas or charcoal

01:33:19   how's it going i am a i am a gas griller charcoal is way too much effort and way too much work

01:33:28   like to set up and to clean and all those things i just have give me a gas grill and

01:33:33   let me use that i live in a place where it doesn't get oppressively hot most of the time

01:33:40   and so i don't have to have to resort to cooking outside it's nice to do but i don't have to

01:33:47   as much as other people do but i i get the appeal of of charcoal but uh it's just it's

01:33:53   just way too much work for uh for what i want to do so i'm lazy gas all the way mike do

01:33:59   you grill things have you grilled things i have um charcoal is very much the standard

01:34:05   in the uk i don't know why this is exactly my expectation would be that people don't

01:34:10   typically invest in gas grills because there isn't enough time in the year right so a charcoal

01:34:16   grill is is the cheapest way to get into grilling and is maybe easiest for if you're doing it

01:34:21   infrequently so my personal taste is for charcoal i like that the flavor that that imbues however

01:34:33   i would always prefer to cook on a gas grill because it's so much easier so much easier

01:34:38   so much easier i'm never in a situation where i'm grilling for a large number of people

01:34:42   yeah and the amount of effort to grill and to set up and to start up and all of that

01:34:49   to grill for you know two three four people it's just not like again it was a cookout

01:34:55   or something if i was if i was having like summer parties where i would have eight or

01:35:00   ten people over and i was cooking a lot of steaks or a lot of burgers or hot dogs or

01:35:05   whatever yeah i could see it but i'm never doing that and i do grill stuff all the time

01:35:12   all year round honestly um with the gas grill because it's super easy to use so that's my

01:35:18   answer um we had a giant charcoal grill when i was a kid like i get it i get the appeal

01:35:24   of it um it's just simply too much effort for me favorite summer food asks matt summer

01:35:34   food so i mean going across this line this isn't a summer food but it's a food i will

01:35:40   only eat in the summer which is a burger from a barbecue it's like a totally different thing

01:35:47   right you go to a friend or family member's house and they cook you a burger on the barbecue

01:35:50   oh yeah it's like you've typically got like a bun which is cold and right like a cheese

01:35:56   which is also cold and you put the cheese right it's like a different experience well

01:36:00   you got you got to put the cheese first off they're doing it wrong because you got to

01:36:04   put the cheese on the burger towards the end of the process so there are and you've got

01:36:07   a place to do it buns face down on the grill so that they toast agree with all of this

01:36:13   but like what i'm specifically talking about is a thing that i enjoy is that thing from

01:36:19   a kid being a kid which is this is not the best way to cook the burger right but this

01:36:24   is like that nostalgic flavor yeah and taste and like texture of this type of barbecued

01:36:33   burger from say my uncle's house yeah i think i'm gonna go with that too actually i think

01:36:38   that the the barbecue the grilled burger uh in on a hot day standing outside sitting outside

01:36:46   i think that is as summery as it gets for me too i'm trying to think the only other

01:36:50   answer i would give would be like is not a good answer it would be like a popsicle or

01:36:56   something like that but no it's it's a it's a burger off of a grill i think that's just

01:37:01   right jeremy asks what is your favorite summer beverage iced tea was gonna be my answer but

01:37:08   i'm gonna save that for a future question spoilers um no my my favorite summer beverage

01:37:15   is the generic way to phrase it would probably be a shandy but basically uh and when i was

01:37:23   in in england my friend simon uh taught me at a at a pub that no longer exists across

01:37:29   the street from the emirates stadium my friend simon who lives in highbury lives in in in

01:37:36   that area uh introduced me to the lager top lager top yeah right which is literally a

01:37:42   beer with lemonade on top but again it's british lemonade so it's actually a lemon lime lemon

01:37:47   it's right it's what we call lemonade is closer to sprite is sprite because it's bubbly um

01:37:56   but he introduced that to me and i was like you know beer with citrusy sweet in it is

01:38:01   pretty great now it comes in different varieties i will sometimes get a uh sometimes i just

01:38:08   will have a beer that is citrusy so like uh a belgian white with an orange flavor in it

01:38:15   like uh i get the it's called orange avenue wit from corona brewing company in san diego

01:38:20   that's a great summer beer uh there's a brewery called uh two pitchers that makes a grapefruit

01:38:25   shandy that's really good um they're sometimes i will just take a beer like a wheat beer

01:38:32   and i'll put lemonade in it our lemonade so not the bubbly kind but i'll do that and that's

01:38:36   good and then there are even some citrusy things that are not quite as sweet but are

01:38:40   are still had that citrus feel um there's a corona brewing does an ipa a hazy ipa that's

01:38:45   uh has pineapple hi everybody pineapple and uh and i found a bunch of other kind of hazy

01:38:53   ipa is that are that i don't like ipa's but the hazy ipa's are are uh more citrusy in

01:38:59   feel and that for me and i love dark beer and i still drink dark beer in the summertime

01:39:03   but for me a light citrusy beer on a hot day is perfect is the perfect summer beverage

01:39:11   now mike what is it for you is it a pimm's cup i hear those are big oh yeah we we do

01:39:17   love a pimm's here right um in in london my my wife adina has a weekly comic uh this is

01:39:25   an instagram and she just posted about this we enjoy pimm's very much um in the summer

01:39:31   i also will say that i do enjoy a uh fruity ipa as well in the summer yeah but for me

01:39:41   as well a cold coke yeah that's a good one just like just a cold coke in a glass bottle

01:39:50   like that is like so different it's so different in the summer got a real sense memory thing

01:39:55   about that yeah i i have uh it's coke zero but we have that keep that in the fridge and

01:40:00   i i'm julian is mostly drinking that but i will drink that occasionally on a hot day

01:40:04   and it's just or coming back we came back from a walk we did a three mile hike through

01:40:08   the hills and it was pretty warm day yesterday and i came back and i was like i'm gonna have

01:40:13   one of those cold coke zeros because there's something about it it's a and it's also feels

01:40:19   like childhood a little bit and and it's just got that feeling that sense memory of summer

01:40:23   but in general thank you england for the lager top not the pimm's cup i don't like the pimm's

01:40:27   cup i don't like that at all but the lager top uh which is i'm told not a very manly

01:40:33   thing to do but my friend simon was like who cares it's great and he's right it is

01:40:38   great so i'll put lemonade in beer you make it manly and also what does that even matter

01:40:43   anyway right no no i think it's dumb right this is that's my point is that people judge

01:40:47   you if you put lemonade in your beer and it's like well too bad you're missing out on good

01:40:51   things because you're dumb so there yeah that's right maxell asks do you feel comfortable

01:40:58   taking your devices to the beach i always worry about sand on or in my iphone or ipad

01:41:04   if i use them while i lay down on a beach towel i i'm okay with it it's not great but

01:41:14   i'm okay with it i don't bring my iphone or ipad to the beach generally i bring the iphone

01:41:19   sometimes and i figure i'm not too worried about the sand i think if the sand gets in

01:41:24   it'll probably get out um the i do a lot though with my my watch so uh i'm not worried about

01:41:34   i'm even less worried about it with a watch and i also bring the kindle to the beach a

01:41:38   lot and it's the same thing it's like yeah the kindle might get a little sandy but i

01:41:44   i don't care because that's why i why i have it most of that stuff is pretty waterproof

01:41:48   now so i i don't i don't get too worried about it what about you mike no i don't i don't

01:41:53   think about it i don't really care about it i mean i have apple care like i'll just deal

01:41:56   with it later this is like a general thing for me i think i'm not particularly precious

01:42:03   with my devices because that preciousness means i'm just not going to use them i mean

01:42:08   this is similar to like my watches like i don't get too precious with them like if i

01:42:14   bump them into a wall and i scratched them a little bit like okay like that's what i've

01:42:17   done to that now like that's just part of it now fine right like it's kind of how i

01:42:22   feel about this kind of stuff i try not to worry too much it's going to enjoy your things

01:42:27   you know you buy things to use them yeah and i'll i'll put in a plug kindles or or any

01:42:34   kind of e-ink reader those are like made for the beach or poolside they are made for it

01:42:40   because the no matter how much backlight there is and how much anti-reflective coating apple

01:42:46   puts on an iphone or an ipad like it's still kind of hard to read in the sun and a kindle

01:42:52   or a kobo i have a kobo now um but like those e-ink readers are so good because they're

01:42:58   reflective like paper so you look at them in the sun and they're just crystal clear

01:43:04   and you know you don't want to be bothered with notifications and stuff when you're sitting

01:43:07   poolside you want to just be uh reading your book so definitely worth it instantiate this

01:43:14   asks does jason ever turn to iced tea yes is the answer in fact last week i made some

01:43:21   uh some sun tea where i put a big pitcher out with a bunch of tea bags in it and let

01:43:24   it sit in the sun for a few hours and then when i'm ready to go from the tea to the iced

01:43:29   tea it is available we also have an iced tea maker which is this gadget that basically

01:43:36   makes a lot of tea and dumps it in a pitcher that's full of ice and it's great and so on

01:43:41   a hot day that is absolutely what i will turn to in the uh in the afternoon iced tea is

01:43:48   great also sometimes i make a second pot of tea and it doesn't get uh get finished and

01:43:53   it's the afternoon and i will just pour that into a glass with some ice and you know that's

01:43:57   how you make iced tea can you explain sun tea sun tea it's like you know cold brew coffee

01:44:04   yeah it's like that but it's cold brew it's out in the sun do you add ice to it afterwards

01:44:12   yeah you add ice to it after right unless you like drinking warm tea but the idea is

01:44:16   the sun tea is like cold brew tea except you use the power of the sun to heat it up so

01:44:21   that it brews a little bit faster but it's not it's not brewing in boiling water it's

01:44:25   brewing in warm water and so sun tea is a thing i don't know i grew up with it the idea

01:44:28   that you take a big uh plastic or i mean not plastic a big glass jar usually with like

01:44:36   a little dispenser on the bottom but not necessarily and you put in like a bunch of tea bags and

01:44:42   you just sit it outside and the sun heats it up so it's kind of cold brew tea except

01:44:47   a little faster than that and uh and then you know you bring it in and you drink the

01:44:53   tea it's it's it's pretty simple but it's kind of a fun thing to do i enjoy sweet iced

01:44:58   tea but it's like only a thing i'll have if i'm like in memphis or something right so

01:45:02   get like a sweet iced tea so sweet tea is just you know you're i mean they sweet tea

01:45:07   in the south is they just add they don't ask you have to ask to not have sweet tea they

01:45:13   just they just put uh sugar or syrup in the tea to make it sweet it's not a lot of the

01:45:18   amount too it's i love it but it is it is a ridiculous amount it's so good but it's

01:45:22   too it's also too much i put sweetener in my iced tea i do i want it sweeter i put honey

01:45:29   in my tea in the morning i i sweeten tea i am a tea sweetener but the sweet tea the southern

01:45:35   sweet tea although it is amazing is also i couldn't have that every time because it would

01:45:40   kill me and also it's too much but it's so good it's too much it's so good kim wants

01:45:46   to know what my preferred summer coffee is so i like uh iced lattes um so it's effectively

01:45:53   the entire all of the contents of a latte right but just without any of the heat so

01:45:57   it's like a bunch of milk and stuff it's not firm milk obviously because it adds the heat

01:46:00   so it's just like espresso with milk i do not sweeten coffee hot coffee i do like my

01:46:08   iced like lattes to be sweet i don't know why i mean a lot of the time and especially

01:46:14   for me the way that i do prefer um an iced latte is with cold brew which is stronger

01:46:22   so i like to put a bit of sweetener in that but just in general i prefer to have um sweetener

01:46:28   i don't know if there's something about honestly the i don't know this like the the heating

01:46:33   of the milk which might make it sweeter that when you add hot milk like a hot milk coffee

01:46:40   drink that there is more sweetness in that milk so i don't know if that's the case this

01:46:46   is a theory that i am just creating uh right now top of my head yeah i like an iced latte

01:46:53   marley's asks what is your go-to drink to cool off on a hot day we already answered

01:46:58   this with our favorite some of my beverage i feel like we've already covered this ground

01:47:02   which is it could be a cold coke it could be an iced tea or it could be a a beer with

01:47:07   some sort of citrus flavor like a lager top or i mean i would just also shandy drink a

01:47:11   bunch of water like a bunch of cold water do me nicely just put a 32 ounce a big giant

01:47:18   plastic with ice and water yeah kate wants to know what is your favorite ice cream i

01:47:26   probably say mint chocolate chip although that's how i know we've had this question

01:47:30   before because it's mine too i love mint choc chip as well yeah i also don't sleep on vanilla

01:47:35   like vanilla is great and i know vanilla is a synonym for boring but like literally i

01:47:39   just made some homemade vanilla ice cream last night very nice um if you've got a kitchen

01:47:45   aid mixer by the way a little tip here a little summer a fun tip if you have a kitchen aid

01:47:49   mixer get the ice cream maker attachment it is the best ice cream maker i have ever had

01:47:56   and i've gone through a lot of them but it the bowl just goes where your mixer bowl would

01:48:01   have been and there's like a little paddle thing that goes on it and you let it run on

01:48:06   the low speed for 20 minutes and uh and then put the result in the freezer for like an

01:48:10   hour or two and you got great ice cream so i highly recommend homemade ice cream is the

01:48:16   best it's it's just because it doesn't it not only was it not made in a factory but

01:48:20   it's like also not been transferred in various trucks that may have melted a little and then

01:48:24   re-frozen it a little it's got more air in it so like good homemade ice cream is amazing

01:48:33   so i'll throw that out there and especially if you've got a kitchen aid mixer get the

01:48:36   ice cream maker so good i will also say like so uh mint choc chip is my favorite like going

01:48:42   to like a store and getting a cone or whatever but i also love many ben and jerry's flavors

01:48:47   oh yeah i mean we had uh we had one like i i love peanut butter so peanut butter in um

01:48:53   and and cookie dough is good and chocolate chocolate brownie chocolate fudge brownie

01:48:59   was a go-to ben and jerry's flavor for me for a while when we had a when we lived near

01:49:04   a ben and jerry's uh retail outlet right like that was pretty great and then we have a great

01:49:11   uh ice cream chain that just went out of business during the pandemic called three twins and

01:49:14   they had some really great chocolate flavors especially so i love all ice cream but in

01:49:20   a pinch uh mint chip is just my my go-to my favorite ice cream place in the world though

01:49:28   is salt and straw and i think i've been to three of them now or in like three different

01:49:33   places super good big fan yeah r.i.p three twins so good and then they decided to expand

01:49:40   into like the do you know the ice cream business the retail ice cream shipping to stores not

01:49:45   the having your own store but like shipping to stores that business is super cutthroat

01:49:49   and these guys tried their best um but it turns out that they're uh as nice as they

01:49:56   were as people and as good as their ice cream was you you can't compete in the in the freezer

01:50:00   section it's just it's brutal in there it's hard to compete like ice cream it's good but

01:50:06   boy don't be in the ice cream business it'll get you this episode is also brought to you

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01:51:47   comes from simon do you prefer sand beaches pebble beaches on no beach at all hmm i prefer

01:51:57   sand beaches very traditional like a good sand beach put down a towel put up a little

01:52:02   umbrella or something some other kind of shade uh ideally it's an you know an ocean where

01:52:08   you're getting the kind of the waves pounding a little bit i love it you know there's a

01:52:15   reason i love hawaii mike one of the reasons is that the beaches they're really good so

01:52:20   i like i like that this is where john syracusa would pop in and say something about mud beaches

01:52:25   at lakes like i i don't i don't do that i i i'm i'm a sand beach kind of person i'm gonna

01:52:31   roll this up with david's question he says for a summer vacation lake house lake house

01:52:35   or beach house so i'm assuming your beach house i've never had a lake vacation uh we

01:52:41   don't have lakes here right lake tourism is i have had a lake vacation in the uk i've

01:52:47   had two because i've been to the lake district twice and the lakes there are beautiful and

01:52:51   wonderful and you take a little boat out and it's it's great but i i ultimately choose

01:52:57   i want to be by the beach and and so that would be my choice yeah like the lake district

01:53:02   is like its own thing here right like people don't go to the lake district is my expectation

01:53:08   in a way as if this is kind of like our beach vacation right which is my understanding at

01:53:13   least from people i know in america that that is a thing that you can do right like you

01:53:18   can go to a lake and you're basically at the beach well yeah if you're if you're at um

01:53:25   if you're in like minnesota or something like i have people i know in minnesota and they

01:53:30   go you know they go to their cabin in the lakes and and they're on a lake and it's it's

01:53:35   fine it's great but like what's my preference my preference is definitely uh the beach like

01:53:42   that's just that's just how it is there's nothing wrong with lakes lakes are fine we

01:53:46   go we we used to go to a family camp up in the sierras by a lake and would you know use

01:53:52   a little paddle boat and go hike around the lake and then paddle on the lake and it's

01:53:56   all great that's fun but if i have to choose i'm gonna go i'm gonna go beach i like sand

01:54:01   beaches i don't know who prefers pebble beaches i don't know why you would prefer that i mean

01:54:08   i grew up with pebble beaches very normal in the uk i don't know why you would want

01:54:14   to sit on the pebble beach i read a great story uh i think it was in the new york times

01:54:22   and it was about how british people are vacationing in the uk this year because they have no other

01:54:32   choice and it's all of these towns that used to be very successful um who are now uh not

01:54:46   because everybody in the uk now goes on vacation to spain where they can have a sunny beach

01:54:54   and one of the things that struck me about it was bognor bognor regis was the town that

01:54:58   they went to and it's like oh i love hearing you say that jason that's so fun for me how

01:55:04   do you say it no no no no no it's not that different it's just like bognor regis it's

01:55:09   just like the bognor like the way that i don't know well so bognor used to be bognor and

01:55:13   then the king and then the king came there and they're like oh man the king came here

01:55:17   we're gonna rename the town with regis on the end for king because this is like where

01:55:23   the king's place and there's apparently a rumor that on his deathbed they're like no

01:55:27   no no you'll get better and you'll go to bognor and he and his last words allegedly were i

01:55:33   don't want to go to bognor uh which is they've been trying to live that down the point is

01:55:38   they've got a beach it's pebbly um the whole story is sort of like the people here are

01:55:42   very happy that people are coming but also we can see all the reasons why people don't

01:55:46   go there anymore so there you go bognor enjoy i mean a uk beach holiday is its own like

01:55:54   thing you know because it's how i did all my holidays growing up got a black pool or

01:55:57   something yeah and it's like amusements which is an arcade and very particular types of

01:56:02   donuts boardwalk kind of thing yeah like i love all that kind of stuff um i have a special

01:56:08   it has a special place in my heart you know but i much prefer a real beach in a hot place

01:56:14   yeah um but yeah i'm not an all-day beach person uh i i don't do very well in the sun

01:56:22   right like i i burn very easily right the british people have but i like it and i love

01:56:26   the ocean you know like i like getting in the ocean so anyway the um the headline in

01:56:32   the new york times uh is next year brits will fly abroad but for now it's bogner bingo yep

01:56:40   very good because bingo is also a big thing yes well that's that story starts out with

01:56:45   people playing bingo yeah and uh yeah it's uh i you know everybody's vacations got a

01:56:51   little weird you know because of the pandemic and are still a little bit weird so that's

01:56:55   that's just part of it so good for the people of bogner that they've got you know people

01:57:00   visiting but but i i what what hit me about that story was when they got to the part where

01:57:04   they're like and there's a beach but oh it's really not good i thought oh no the beach

01:57:10   isn't it's a rocky beach that's no good no no who wants to go there patrick wants to

01:57:17   know favorite baseball park food hot dog yeah it's a hot dog there are lots of you know

01:57:24   we have great food at ballparks these days they like the the um food and drink at american

01:57:32   ballparks is generally so much better than it used to be there are some great um food

01:57:38   options i've had a great barbecue sandwich at the at the giant stadium i've had a fantastic

01:57:44   uh there's a they have a rice a hot rice and bean bowl the cha-cha bowl that is uh amazing

01:57:52   but like and then the garlic fries are famous like there are all these all these things

01:57:56   you can get that are good i had shake shack at the met stadium right like there are but

01:58:02   my favorite i mean and that i still get we went to a game a few weeks ago our first game

01:58:06   this year or last year and um in the end what did i have a couple a couple of little beef

01:58:12   hot dogs from the the hot dog stand it's like because it's baseball like a beer and a hot

01:58:16   dog i i sometimes get those fancy uh baseball pretensions and i go get a cha-cha bowl or

01:58:22   a barbecue sandwich or something like that but most of the time just gotta go with the

01:58:27   with the hot dog and beer

01:58:31   brance asks prescription sunglasses sunglasses of contact lenses on those sunglasses

01:58:41   i uh refuse the validity of this question okay i have glasses prescription glasses and

01:58:51   little sunglass things oh you do a clip-on yeah yeah you you do good clip-on your clip-on's

01:58:55   good because i don't want i don't want to have like an extra pair of glasses when it's

01:59:00   bright and then take them off when it when the cloud goes in front of the sun so i just

01:59:04   have the little clips that go on my regular glasses this is so difficult for me like i

01:59:11   would prefer prescription sunglasses but then i also have to carry the glasses yeah it's

01:59:17   so frustrating i don't do contact lenses i don't want to i have no desire um most of

01:59:24   the time i would do no sunglasses uh but like i will never wear sunglasses in the uk because

01:59:31   it's just like i just don't do it but if i'm going on vacation i will take my prescription

01:59:37   sunglasses and we'll just try and get around that um but i much prefer to to have both

01:59:44   but it's annoying maybe i should look into some cool clip-ons too like jason's jason

01:59:48   has cool yeah i mean yeah i had to buy basically i had to shop for if i want clip-ons i have

01:59:54   to shop for glasses that come with clip-ons or that you can buy clip-ons for because otherwise

01:59:58   you're retrofitting it and it never fits right and they don't look right so i i just put

02:00:01   that in my my list because i i don't mind carrying the clips around i mean it is an

02:00:05   extra something to carry around but it's a lot less of a problem than bringing a whole

02:00:10   other pair of glasses with me

02:00:16   people in the discord are upset that i don't as if it doesn't get sunny in the uk look

02:00:20   get sunny in the uk i know that right and lots of people wear sunglasses here but then

02:00:25   i have to also carry my glasses and like i if i'm in the summer i don't want a bag right

02:00:31   because it's hot so i don't want a bag right so i go with just my regular glasses and have

02:00:38   no sunglasses nathan asks in the areas where each of you live how many months does summer

02:00:45   feel like it lasts and is that enough summer not enough or too much wow great question

02:00:53   i think it might be easier for me to answer this go ahead about three months right kind

02:00:58   of starts in june ends in september by and large that can shift but we're looking at

02:01:04   about three months and also like spritish summer varies right like today it's like 18

02:01:11   degrees but that still feels summery to me because it's a little bit rainy in in the

02:01:16   way that summer is rainy which is different to winter rainy fun summer rainy is way worse

02:01:23   it's so much worse uh and um i would say for me here that's enough like just enough verging

02:01:36   on too much yeah um so this is a complicated question because of where i live i would say

02:01:46   that we get summer in in september and october and then interspersed from may through the

02:01:54   end of august which is four months there's a month or two worth of summer in there in

02:02:04   those four months so on one level like on one level honestly from may to the end of

02:02:14   october is the dry season here and it's of a kind but like for for where i live feeling

02:02:22   like it's summer down here by the bay uh only really happens for two months plus a handful

02:02:30   of weeks scattered throughout the rest of the summer and my answer is going to be i

02:02:35   don't think that's enough summer i would like you know i i happen to live with a with a

02:02:40   at a place that has a little too much fog for me i wish i was a little bit warmer here

02:02:45   and my wife disagrees she like she likes this level she doesn't want it hotter i would like

02:02:49   it a little hotter i grew up where it was very hot and we had very hot summers and i

02:02:54   miss having a little bit more warmth oh the good news is just wait around and it gets

02:03:00   hotter so uh and in terms of of the overall health of my state i would say it's it's uh

02:03:07   too much summer in the sense that we need more rain and it doesn't rain here in the

02:03:11   summer so in that way the summer should be shorter but i don't get to control the weather

02:03:17   not yet anyway not give me time though my weather stations are more for measuring than

02:03:22   controlling you're just learning right now yeah dave asks what are your favorite gadgets

02:03:27   or tools that you only use during the summer well for me a lot of the stuff that gets pulled

02:03:33   out of the storage in the in the summer is like the cushions for the the backyard furniture

02:03:41   and the the hammock we do use the the grill all all year long so and then um also we got

02:03:50   string lights over our patio now which is really nice and that's a nice little gadget

02:03:55   that you know in the winter it's less likely that we're going to be hanging out outside

02:03:59   that's more of a summer thing and even then only on summer days where it's not freezing

02:04:03   outside after the sun goes down but uh i would say the string lights the the you know the

02:04:09   backyard furniture the hammock stuff like that is i actually also put a um i have a

02:04:13   sono speaker that i put outside in the summer and it just sits out there so i can airplay

02:04:18   to it when we're out there that's it what about you my dyson fan yeah oh yeah i've got

02:04:25   i've got one of those and i only use that in the summer that's true i mean so like i'm

02:04:29   kind of cheating a little bit we have we have a couple one of them we only use in the summer

02:04:33   uh the other one it's one of the hot cool fans so we do use it in the winter as well

02:04:38   but mine is just a cool only fans they're super good and it sits on my um ever since

02:04:42   i bought it i used to have a floor one and then jamie took that off to college and i

02:04:46   was like all right i gotta get a new fan and i thought i'm gonna get the dyson fan they

02:04:50   really are the best they are expensive but they're so good yeah so it sits on my desk

02:04:56   most of the time although on a really hot day i'll carry it into the living room and

02:04:58   we'll run it in there but it mostly just sits on my desk sort of very quietly circulating

02:05:03   the air in here on a warm day it's nice and kim wants to know jason how's your garden

02:05:08   furniture from ikea holding up the uh the ikea furniture is great i mentioned the cushions

02:05:18   that's all part of frozen quest back in the day one one cover still i know it came from

02:05:24   norway episode 213 of upgrades starting at around 45 minutes for us on the quest but

02:05:33   the it's great um you know i was always reluctant to get um you know it's it's plastic furniture

02:05:40   basically but it's what you know it's woven and it's sort of rattan like and i was never

02:05:44   really a fan of that material but the fact is it's held up really well um the cushions

02:05:50   are great we we take them you know when it's going to rain which really doesn't happen

02:05:53   unless you're really in the sort of beginning of spring um otherwise we put them away for

02:05:59   the winter but uh so they just basically stay out there and i gotta gotta clean them off

02:06:03   and you know occasionally a bird will drop on them or we'll get a bunch of leaves and

02:06:07   stuff and pollen you gotta brush off but basically they're really comfortable it's really nice

02:06:12   having a couch outside essentially and then um we have some uh not from ikea but we have

02:06:19   a a table and and chairs and stuff that we bought a while ago that is falling apart and

02:06:25   i am uh i ordered new uh a new table and chairs and stuff that i'm really looking forward

02:06:33   to because i think that's going to kind of be the final um if anything can be considered

02:06:38   final upgrade to the uh to the backyard ever since we poured the concrete and and really

02:06:43   redid our backyard and so you put the new concrete the string lights the ikea furniture

02:06:48   and then this new table that we're going to get i feel like we'll finally kind of completed

02:06:53   our project to make our backyard nicer because our house isn't very big and so when it's

02:06:59   nice out it is really nice to be able to use the house gets bigger and i'll tell you last

02:07:04   year during the pandemic when we had four people stuck in our house it was really nice

02:07:10   when the weather turned better to be able to spill over out into the outside it was

02:07:15   uh it's good to have that space and i like using it thank you to everybody who sent in

02:07:22   a summer themed ask upgrade question if you would like to send us one in for the future

02:07:26   i mean if you really have some summer question that we haven't asked you can feel free to

02:07:31   send them in but usually they're tech focused just send out a tweet with the hashtag ask

02:07:35   upgrade or use question mark ask upgrade in the relay fm members discord which you get

02:07:39   access to if you sign up for upgrade plus and go to get upgrade plus dot com and you

02:07:43   will get longer ad-free episodes every single week if you need a longer episode than this

02:07:50   one today go for it you can get it we did it uh and that's i salute you uh also go to

02:08:01   upgrade your wardrobe.com where you can pick up a summer of fun t-shirt or a dongle town

02:08:08   t-shirt or a dongle town surf club t-shirt available for just two weeks please go there

02:08:14   right now upgrade your wardrobe.com click the link in the show notes too if you would

02:08:20   like to thank you to express cpn privacy instabug and bombus for their support of this show

02:08:27   if you'd like to find jason online you can go to sixcolors.com and he is @jasenow j s

02:08:32   n e double o on twitter i am @imike i m y k e thank you so much for listening we'll be

02:08:37   back next week until then say goodbye jason snow goodbye mike really

02:08:41   you

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02:08:49   you

02:08:51   you

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