00:00:20 ◼ ► Instabug, Privacy, and ExpressVPN. My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by Jason Snell. And Jason
00:00:25 ◼ ► Snell, you know what time it is, right? Myke, it's the Summer of Fun! It started. Jason Snell, I'm very aware of the fact that we may have new
00:01:03 ◼ ► to the Summer doing Upgrade. We started Upgrade in the Fall. We got to the Summer and there
00:01:07 ◼ ► was a lot of travel going on. Myke was going here and there and here and there and I was
00:01:11 ◼ ► doing a little bit of traveling too. And we ended up in this question of like, what are
00:01:15 ◼ ► we doing for the Summer? Because we end up having to have guests and we're going to have
00:01:21 ◼ ► to pre-record episodes. There's various choices, right? When we're not available on Monday
00:01:26 ◼ ► or Tuesday or like somewhere very close to our recording date, you don't want to record
00:01:30 ◼ ► an episode of Upgrade three weeks early because things change and we talk about current events.
00:01:42 ◼ ► And if you pre-record, you can't do something timely. So you have to come up with a concept
00:01:45 ◼ ► or a topic or something that you can pre-record that is not going to be invalidated by the
00:01:55 ◼ ► Fun mostly as a way to explain to listeners why Upgrade in the Summertime gets a little
00:02:03 ◼ ► bit weird, like we're okay weirder than it usually is. And it has taken, sometimes it's
00:02:13 ◼ ► pretty simple. Like it's a, you know, we did like a panel from an event once and I brought
00:02:18 ◼ ► on guest to talk to me when Myke is traveling, we've done like conceptual episodes that we
00:02:24 ◼ ► pre-recorded a bunch of different stuff like that. It's a grab bag. If every week is different,
00:02:31 ◼ ► not every week is going to be a complete rethinking of the podcast format. But we do that occasionally.
00:02:39 ◼ ► with goodbyes, went into Ask Upgrade and then we ended with the Snell Talk question and
00:02:57 ◼ ► soundscape where we had background noise and we were walking around as if we were out and
00:03:00 ◼ ► about taking a hike. You know, that some people complain they're like, "Why does it not sound
00:03:10 ◼ ► Fun, that's what it's about. It's not always going to be something that blows your mind
00:03:19 ◼ ► things are not going to be your average upgrade for a little while. Also, usually there's
00:03:54 ◼ ► just news kept happening, things kept happening, which is unlike the other years. I mean, just
00:04:18 ◼ ► so when there's no news, we need topics and there's less news during June to September.
00:04:26 ◼ ► And we usually end the Summer of Fun the week before, so the draft episode for the iPhone
00:04:33 ◼ ► event. And again, last year it went all the way to October and it wouldn't stop. And again,
00:04:39 ◼ ► we have no idea when it will stop this year as well. Now on today's episode, we're kicking
00:04:50 ◼ ► Because I asked for them on Twitter via the Upgrade Twitter account and we got a lot of
00:04:56 ◼ ► questions, so we're going to be doing a bumper episode today. But just because it's the summer,
00:05:02 ◼ ► we don't completely eschew our typical traditions of the show. I have a #SnellTalk question
00:05:06 ◼ ► for you, Jason. This one comes from Tim and Tim wants to know, "Do you still buy movies
00:05:25 ◼ ► have bought some movies on 4K Blu-ray because at the time it was really because that 4K
00:05:40 ◼ ► least a 4K option, although again, how compressed they are with the bit rates that they're streaming
00:05:51 ◼ ► a bunch of times and I think will really benefit from being in glorious kind of like full quality
00:05:58 ◼ ► 4K HDR high bandwidth on a disk? And the truth is those all come with digital copies that
00:06:05 ◼ ► are in iTunes at 4K at this point. So I get a convenient kind of portable version as well.
00:06:15 ◼ ► My guess is that I'm not going to do it very often now because the fact is like, do I want
00:06:25 ◼ ► is that enough? Is that good enough for me? And the answer is for most movies, probably.
00:06:31 ◼ ► So the answer is yes, but it is dramatically decreasing to the point where I may be done
00:06:38 ◼ ► with it at some point. Other than occasionally there's a special example of something that
00:06:43 ◼ ► I think like I bought into the Spider-Verse on 4K Blu-ray and I thought like this movie
00:06:46 ◼ ► is so beautiful and I want to see it as in its absolute best form possible. But it's fading
00:06:54 ◼ ► away. Oh, I should say sometimes things aren't available digitally in any form streaming
00:07:14 ◼ ► for a podcast. We were looking for an episode of a TV show for another podcast I do that
00:07:32 ◼ ► buy the complete second season of Murder She Wrote for $14 on Amazon and just on DVD and
00:07:42 ◼ ► I do. I'm going to give it to Scott McNulty who is a Murder She Wrote fan. I keep threatening
00:07:46 ◼ ► to just send it to him. One day a Murder She Wrote DVD set is going to show up in his mail
00:07:55 ◼ ► entire episode on Vimeo so it's like oh don't have to buy a DVD of this random show just
00:08:01 ◼ ► for one episode of it. But for the most part you know it's I'm down to just these 4k Blu-rays
00:08:08 ◼ ► where it's like the super high bandwidth high quality and that's pretty much all the stuff
00:08:17 ◼ ► If you would like to send in a question to help us open an episode of Upgrade just send
00:08:30 ◼ ► do. Go to upgradeyourwardrobe.com and you can peruse our line of t-shirt designs. We've
00:08:42 ◼ ► bringing back two previous designs. The original dongle town t-shirt which has been a big success.
00:08:50 ◼ ► One of the reasons we're bringing this back is I have a hole in mine and want a new one.
00:08:58 ◼ ► It's the truest reason to bring back merch is that the podcasters need a new shirt. Although
00:09:03 ◼ ► I'll say there's a danger there which is every time I do an incomparable robot or a Skeletor
00:09:12 ◼ ► about kind of wearing my shirts beyond their welcome point and I have I have like three
00:09:17 ◼ ► robot shirts waiting to go now that I haven't worn so you know that there is a danger there
00:09:27 ◼ ► So we also brought back the dongle town surf club shirt that was our last merchandise that
00:09:34 ◼ ► we released in 2019. It's summery and it's in some new colors. There's a there's a green
00:09:49 ◼ ► So there's those two that come back but we have a brand new summer of fun inspired design.
00:09:56 ◼ ► It is the upgrade summer fun t-shirt designed by Jason Snell. Yeah. It did a very good job.
00:10:02 ◼ ► I hope from the people at cotton Bureau it's based on the summer of fun designed by Simon
00:10:19 ◼ ► and still does some graphic design work to help out his friends and he he helped me out
00:10:23 ◼ ► with the concept because I was struggling with exactly how to do a kind of limited number
00:10:34 ◼ ► fun t-shirt that I wanted to do and he made a very specific suggestion with the with Simon's
00:10:41 ◼ ► artwork that was perfect and so I'm pretty happy with it. It looks pretty good and then
00:10:46 ◼ ► cotton Bureau fixed all of my terrible problems with trying to figure out how to do vector
00:10:52 ◼ ► art properly and clip vector art and affinity designer kind of let me down but cotton Bureau
00:10:58 ◼ ► their pros they took care of it. This shirt is available in a selection of blues beautiful
00:11:04 ◼ ► blues to match with the ocean and also for the boring amongst you a black. Yeah I I like
00:11:11 ◼ ► the irony of somebody wearing a black t-shirt that says summer of fun so it's there if you
00:11:23 ◼ ► ocean honestly darkness I probably will buy one of the black ones because there is something
00:11:41 ◼ ► that thanks to miss a soup of the chat room Kathy Campbell who suggested that we had to
00:11:48 ◼ ► do it as a tank top and so it is there it is tank top available. So that's three t-shirt
00:11:54 ◼ ► designs they're available for two weeks two weeks 14 days there you go so just two weeks
00:12:00 ◼ ► will remind you next week about the summer of fun and you can get your dongle town t-shirts
00:12:25 ◼ ► but uh I'm happy about it I'm gonna be wearing that one this summer for sure. Yeah I can't
00:12:53 ◼ ► it with itself. Yeah I have a yellow I fell in love with this computer you know I think
00:13:31 ◼ ► then what's left is perfect for me size wise for now like if I you know if I have all this
00:14:15 ◼ ► year maybe next year you know when Apple actually releases something that I would want to replace
00:14:27 ◼ ► needs are becoming clearer this machine would then become our home computer and I would
00:14:46 ◼ ► now which is just not used and so as we move forward you know we're hoping that we could
00:15:07 ◼ ► home computer so that's where I am right now and I am super happy with this and one little
00:15:13 ◼ ► thing that I've done I think I may have mentioned this at the time I love having touch ID right
00:15:33 ◼ ► ID you have a little sneaky place that you can put your finger under your desk and magic
00:15:43 ◼ ► and unlock my iMac but most of the time it's awesome and I really like this kind of when
00:15:49 ◼ ► I get to when it asks me hey use touch ID I can just reach under the desk you know like
00:15:56 ◼ ► like I'm like a panic button do you have it oriented so it's just the narrow side so it's
00:16:08 ◼ ► back facing towards me so the button is closest to me physically right interesting I was thinking
00:16:14 ◼ ► you could also mount it you could also mount it with the narrow side on that corner where
00:16:35 ◼ ► so you can easily reach for it otherwise you're pressing all kinds of keys so I have it on
00:16:40 ◼ ► the left side of the desk facing towards me if you had if you had key press problems you
00:16:44 ◼ ► could also probably use something like carabiner and like lock out all the keys on that keyboard
00:16:50 ◼ ► other than the other than the the power button or I mean you could basically lock out all
00:17:02 ◼ ► leg and you typed a bunch of things on your underside keyboard there's a couple of reasons
00:17:11 ◼ ► chance of me doing that just put the way that the desks oriented and also I have height
00:17:17 ◼ ► controls this is the sit stand desk and the height controls are on the right side I would
00:17:21 ◼ ► have naturally wanted this on the right side but there wasn't a way for me to put it and
00:17:36 ◼ ► of weeks I've been using Mac OS Monterey on it and I will I'm probably going to ask them
00:17:41 ◼ ► if I can extend my loan for a little bit because it's really nice to have a modern Apple silicon
00:17:54 ◼ ► take when I travel because then I'm on a beta when I travel and I don't like that idea that's
00:18:06 ◼ ► in buying one is just that it is not a suitable replacement for my iMac Pro it's just not
00:18:13 ◼ ► there are too many things that I'm doing with especially isotope the people good people
00:18:17 ◼ ► at isotope make some amazing sound plugins a lot of them are not multi core enabled and
00:18:23 ◼ ► it's really sad or not properly multi threaded and it none of them are running on native
00:18:35 ◼ ► a an m1 it for a lot of those plugins it's just terrible like I can't I can't go to the
00:18:44 ◼ ► current m1s and do what I'm doing but it the temptation is is real so I'm just gonna have
00:18:55 ◼ ► can I can do stuff on that and it's delightful but but I I'm just gonna be I'm in the position
00:19:01 ◼ ► of I think a lot of our listeners which is I'm waiting it out because what I really want
00:19:10 ◼ ► m1 X or an m2 or whatever they call it that kind of more cores more capable for more pro
00:19:15 ◼ ► applications kind of thing and then I just need the maker of these intense sound plugins
00:19:22 ◼ ► that I use to get their button gear and actually release an Apple silicon version because I
00:19:29 ◼ ► don't know what the problem is last week Windows 11 was shown off Microsoft yes it was and
00:19:35 ◼ ► when I was 11 looks really interesting I was give a bit of follow out because so I host
00:19:40 ◼ ► another podcast and relay phone called the test drivers with Austin Evans where I guess
00:19:45 ◼ ► it's kind of like my other shows but not really focused about Apple so much I we talk about
00:19:50 ◼ ► all the technology right so we'll and gaming too is a bit of crossover so but we had the
00:20:01 ◼ ► officer for Windows and devices like surfaces and stuff if you've seen any of the surface
00:20:12 ◼ ► think for a lot of people he showed off the windows of the surface duo and neo the folding
00:20:18 ◼ ► devices a couple of years ago I this is one we could sit down with a great interview great
00:20:30 ◼ ► the show notes I would really love it if you go and check it out because I'm really proud
00:20:33 ◼ ► of the way the episode came together I would say this is the Microsoft equivalent of what
00:20:38 ◼ ► grouper did getting Craig Joswiak and Craig Federighi like Panos is their demo guy doesn't
00:20:46 ◼ ► really have a demo guy I mean maybe like Phil Schiller or something used to be that but
00:20:51 ◼ ► like he's the guy who demos all the new hardware especially at Microsoft I mean he also ran
00:20:59 ◼ ► the windows 11 presentation I would say like no no he's their demo guy now he's their presentation
00:21:10 ◼ ► at demos like I've said this before I got the chance to speak to him so there's no bias
00:21:34 ◼ ► has the ability to like make you feel genuinely emotional about the things he's talking about
00:21:39 ◼ ► like I'm watching the windows 11 presentation and I'm like yeah man the pandemic was hard
00:21:44 ◼ ► you know Panos it was he's so he's very very good and you know like you were mentioning
00:21:52 ◼ ► like he is very high up at Microsoft I think his boss is the CEO so I was really honored
00:21:58 ◼ ► that we got that Microsoft reached out to have us have that interview and I really wanted
00:22:02 ◼ ► to recommend people go and check it out because if you are wondering hey what's this windows
00:22:08 ◼ ► And we're not gonna talk about windows 11 here yet although some are fun you never know
00:22:12 ◼ ► what might happen but I think one of the things that I took away from it like it's interesting
00:22:15 ◼ ► they did a bunch of interesting stuff they're trying to the interface looks good I feel
00:22:20 ◼ ► like maybe they at Microsoft is has reached a point where they're okay with making changes
00:22:25 ◼ ► and and breaking some compatibility in a way that Microsoft has never been before and you
00:22:31 ◼ ► see it in a couple of ways first off is the interface really does look genuinely way better
00:22:41 ◼ ► and then the other thing is that they announced the hardware support for this and they're
00:22:44 ◼ ► requiring essentially this hardware security chip to be present yeah and it's the equivalent
00:22:52 ◼ ► of the t2 essentially on an Intel Mac and they're requiring that to be present and it's
00:23:02 ◼ ► not too many years ago and it just won't work with a windows 11 because it doesn't have
00:23:07 ◼ ► that stuff in it and it's just like no it won't work so that's a we'll see if they stick
00:23:37 ◼ ► great ideas and then they are basically trapped to not really implement them or backtrack
00:23:41 ◼ ► from them because everybody's demanding that they just remain compatible with everything
00:23:50 ◼ ► not the it's hard to believe but like Windows is not the point of Microsoft which with Steve
00:23:55 ◼ ► Ballmer Windows was the point of Microsoft and with that Nadella it's not like the Azure
00:24:00 ◼ ► is and Office 365 is but Windows is Windows is important obviously but it's not like the
00:24:07 ◼ ► point of Microsoft and Microsoft doesn't revolve around it and I think that maybe gives them
00:24:11 ◼ ► some freedom to do things like say we're going to build the next generation Windows that
00:24:20 ◼ ► who are you know still for those of you still using Windows XP Windows 10 is upgradeable
00:24:26 ◼ ► but Windows 11 is going to be new and different and yeah really interesting what Microsoft
00:24:37 ◼ ► Yeah it was the one frustration I have about the interview is we didn't know at this point
00:24:40 ◼ ► about the compatibility thing because we recorded a couple of hours after the Microsoft event
00:24:53 ◼ ► they were going to cut out and so you know it's something I want to dig into in the future
00:24:57 ◼ ► a little bit more as well and I guess the only other thing that I think worth mentioning
00:25:05 ◼ ► to have later on in this episode one of the things Microsoft announced with some pretty
00:25:10 ◼ ► big changes to the business model of the Microsoft store which is that app store basically where
00:25:16 ◼ ► now they are taking a 15% cut from developers that use Microsoft payment platform but you
00:25:23 ◼ ► can also list your app on the Microsoft store use your own payment processing system and
00:25:39 ◼ ► a different model right it's interesting because they originally their model was kind of an
00:25:44 ◼ ► app store model and they're backing off of that and I think some of that is reading the
00:25:49 ◼ ► room right and being like aha we can do this but also I think it it's less painful a decision
00:25:57 ◼ ► for them to make there's a lot of stuff that's not in the Microsoft store that now they can
00:26:10 ◼ ► Yeah and this is something that you can do if you don't have any apps in your app store
00:26:28 ◼ ► Pride is a time to celebrate all things LGBTQ+ and pride also means a lot of different things
00:26:33 ◼ ► to a lot of different people and that's why this year Bombas is choosing to be proud in
00:26:37 ◼ ► every way of your sexuality, your gender, your culture all things that have shaped your
00:26:42 ◼ ► unique pride and they're doing it with a collection of colorful clothing inspired by all of the
00:26:47 ◼ ► different experiences that make up the LGBTQ+ community there is something for everyone
00:26:56 ◼ ► Bombas made some or maybe you're looking for a super soft striped rainbow shirt they have
00:27:05 ◼ ► looking through the collection earlier on today and some that really caught my eye they
00:27:10 ◼ ► have these tie dye socks that use colors from different pride flags and they look fantastic
00:27:22 ◼ ► back for every clothing item you purchase another item will be donated to someone affected
00:27:27 ◼ ► by homelessness in the LGBTQ+ community homelessness disproportionately affects the entire LGBTQ+
00:27:35 ◼ ► population but people of color and transgender individuals within the community are even
00:27:39 ◼ ► more at risk that's why each donation will be going to one of three organizations working
00:27:44 ◼ ► specifically with transgender and BIPOC communities to shop the collection and learn more about
00:27:49 ◼ ► the organizations your purchase will be supporting go to bombas.com/upgrade and use the code
00:27:54 ◼ ► upgrade to get 20% off your first order that's bombas.com/upgrade and let me tell you as somebody
00:28:01 ◼ ► who wears Bombas clothing I wear Bombas socks every single day they are incredibly comfortable
00:28:16 ◼ ► pride you'll be able to support some organizations you're also going to have really comfortable
00:28:25 ◼ ► Let's do some upstream headlines. Upstream is where we recap some of the stuff going on in streaming digital media
00:28:36 ◼ ► screentimes.net spoke to someone at Warner regarding international sales of Ted Lasso merch
00:28:43 ◼ ► so you remember last week I was elated that there was Ted Lasso merch and then disappointed
00:28:49 ◼ ► that it was not shipping internationally and Warner said that they are quote looking at
00:28:55 ◼ ► possibilities this means to me it's never going to happen that's I'm very used to these
00:29:10 ◼ ► jerseys are going to be available in September so if you're unhappy with the t-shirt that
00:29:15 ◼ ► they've got for the like the football jersey shirt they're going to have actual what he
00:29:35 ◼ ► but it's not international and we the honestly the the merch is underwhelming there's I saw
00:29:42 ◼ ► somebody say in our chat room last week while we were recording they were going through
00:29:46 ◼ ► they were combing through the Ted Lasso merch site and somebody said it was very much a
00:29:54 ◼ ► mean honestly some of the some of the items feel like somebody took a you know mug maker
00:29:59 ◼ ► from zazzle and just put in a Ted Lasso thing and said good enough and it's too bad because
00:30:11 ◼ ► I know that there are some sites that do this but like harness the creativity of of fans
00:30:28 ◼ ► that way and this stuff is really uninspired like literally there's better there's vastly
00:30:40 ◼ ► where they're unlicensed than this stuff that's in their store and and then you see Bill Lauren
00:30:58 ◼ ► this is a very very very minor season 2 spoiler out of the trailer which is that they they
00:31:03 ◼ ► clearly have changed the club the fictional club has changed its sponsor its kit sponsor
00:31:09 ◼ ► for its next season in the in the in the league so and I kind of assume that's gonna be a
00:31:17 ◼ ► plot point but it might not be either way I wonder if one of the reasons that it's coming
00:31:24 ◼ ► in September and all of that is they actually want to have it be the season 2 kit and they
00:31:29 ◼ ► don't want to spoil the fact that they changed their kit in season 2 so we'll see but but
00:31:36 ◼ ► it's it's a little bit baffling that they've kind of booted this and I give them a little
00:31:42 ◼ ► bit of credit for the fact that nobody expected Ted Lasso to be a merchandise machine but
00:31:55 ◼ ► coming the show has also won a 2021 Peabody Award quote for offering the perfect counter
00:32:02 ◼ ► to the enduring prevalence of toxic toxic masculinity both on screen and off in a moment
00:32:07 ◼ ► when the nation truly needs inspiring models of kindness yeah it's great an out of left
00:32:16 ◼ ► field award but an award nonetheless and for everybody's yeah Peabody's do that that's a
00:32:31 ◼ ► going to be for your TV show maybe this isn't what you would have naturally expected but
00:32:36 ◼ ► it's great nonetheless right yep last week Apple sent out an email to subscribers letting
00:32:42 ◼ ► them know that the fact that their free trial period was ending and they also used this
00:32:47 ◼ ► as an opportunity to promote some of their upcoming shows so there's some dates for stuff
00:32:56 ◼ ► with Jon Stewart will premiere in September as well as foundation and today Apple released
00:33:03 ◼ ► a new trailer for foundation and confirmed that this was going to be premiering on September
00:33:09 ◼ ► 24th and I watched the trailer I have never read and kind of honestly know nothing about
00:33:16 ◼ ► the foundation series books by Isaac Asimov and so I don't really understand what is going
00:33:23 ◼ ► on in the trailer like I don't know if you need contacts or it helps to have the context
00:33:29 ◼ ► but it looks beautiful and I'm intrigued honestly it looks like a movie with the quality of
00:33:35 ◼ ► special effects and stuff so so foundation was written like 70 years ago like and I read
00:33:41 ◼ ► it for a podcast a few years ago I read the books there there's an original trilogy and
00:33:46 ◼ ► then he kept writing foundation books they're they're not they're full of interesting ideas
00:33:52 ◼ ► I would say that in in terms of being the basis for a TV show or a movie now it's actually
00:33:57 ◼ ► about the right level which is it's more concerned with the ideas and the big sweep of the plot
00:34:12 ◼ ► points without having to worry too much about the individual characters but the big idea
00:34:36 ◼ ► a choice to make which is do we work to reduce the amount of chaos that comes to the galaxy
00:34:49 ◼ ► of two thousand get out of the Dark Ages but what he says is the Dark Ages are coming it's
00:34:54 ◼ ► gonna be really bad but are we willing to work and sacrifice now so that future generations
00:35:15 ◼ ► a core story from 70 years ago and Jared Harris is that guy is the the visionary guy Harry
00:35:21 ◼ ► Seldon and and this trailer focuses also sort of like on the the Emperor basically who's
00:35:33 ◼ ► being threatened and are probably also pretending that their Empire isn't crumbling but it is
00:35:38 ◼ ► crumbling and it looks great very interesting stuff in there so well you know you never
00:35:50 ◼ ► winner and it certainly looks like they spared no expense like you said it's so we have a
00:35:58 ◼ ► Dan Harmon and Nathan Pyle are teaming up to create an animated version of Pyle's Strange
00:36:04 ◼ ► Planet comic for Apple TV Plus this is going to be produced in-house at Apple Studios of
00:36:14 ◼ ► Yeah I'm I enjoy that comic I think it's very amusing I don't see how this is a series but
00:36:27 ◼ ► a one joke thing and I enjoy the individual jokes but I just as I wouldn't expect it an
00:36:32 ◼ ► animated series based on Alex Norris's webcomic name where every episode I guess ends with
00:36:37 ◼ ► them saying oh no I don't know Strange Planet feels the same way to me but obviously like
00:36:43 ◼ ► you could take the idea of these aliens that come to Earth and understand try to understand
00:36:54 ◼ ► you have to really expand the canvas and yeah and so we'll see I mean Dan Harmon obviously
00:37:23 ◼ ► goes they actually have a history to the Hollywood report mention this and I was looking it up
00:37:35 ◼ ► some piles designs ah so assuming that these things don't happen you know randomly yeah
00:37:50 ◼ ► a an official list of Abed shirts like there's an Abed shirts subreddit of course and I I've
00:37:59 ◼ ► I bought a couple of those so yeah it's it's they're good they're good lots of good lots
00:38:06 ◼ ► of good Abed shirts I think they all came from threadless when threadless was the thing
00:38:16 ◼ ► show Mark Gurman has gotten into the newsletter game over at Bloomberg he's round writing
00:38:23 ◼ ► a newsletter or every week called power on and it's a it's focused on technology there's
00:38:29 ◼ ► some basketball thrown in there too the first issue is has been published on Bloomberg's
00:38:35 ◼ ► website I read it today and it's really interesting because it has his personality back into it
00:38:44 ◼ ► where Mark's Bloomberg writing doesn't feel like Mark Gurman is writing it if that makes
00:38:50 ◼ ► it's not in his voice where this is in his voice and for one I just found that good right
00:39:04 ◼ ► to if Jason Snell maybe it maybe as well like the stuff that you write for Macworld is less
00:39:10 ◼ ► Jason Snell to a point but I'm a columnist and it's it's not really but yeah you're right
00:39:15 ◼ ► if I wrote at Bloomberg it would be substantially different the people said the people say there
00:39:21 ◼ ► was no the people say in this no article no it's it's super chatty and you know he's gonna
00:39:32 ◼ ► so you know you can go and subscribe I'd subscribed anyway because I was just into it like I like
00:39:37 ◼ ► this idea it's free I think too I don't know what what honestly I don't know what the point
00:39:43 ◼ ► of that is like I'm seeing more companies do this these days they have free newsletters
00:39:52 ◼ ► the colonists and then there are links in the article and the idea there is that you're
00:40:01 ◼ ► that that will lead to some conversion to maybe there could be ads in those newsletters
00:40:05 ◼ ► in the future too sure but it seems like now there are loads of newsletters that are paid
00:40:11 ◼ ► larger media companies are getting into newsletters that are free it's just really interesting
00:40:17 ◼ ► that we're moving around like this but this is kind of where we are so yeah in this first
00:40:22 ◼ ► issue Mark talks about how much he's using his iPad Pro now and then just casually mentions
00:40:44 ◼ ► next year as much as they're testing out larger iPads it's interesting because I've been reading
00:40:51 ◼ ► who was it somebody on Twitter that I saw that said that they've they've said oh here's
00:41:01 ◼ ► iPad first person and he settled on the iPad 11 inch which is interesting right because
00:41:16 ◼ ► 11 inch is perfect just like the 11 inch MacBook Air was perfect and I was thinking about that
00:41:25 ◼ ► a especially the m1 version is just it's big and heavy but it would be hard for me to give
00:41:31 ◼ ► up that screen but I also see the other side of it which is for certain tasks you really
00:41:42 ◼ ► lot over the next couple of years Myke but I think the challenge of having a very large
00:41:45 ◼ ► iPad a 15 or 16 inch iPad is all ergonomics because you know you're not going to be waving
00:41:55 ◼ ► that thing around with one hand like it's going to be everything that is difficult about
00:41:59 ◼ ► the 12.9 taken up several levels so the question then is where do you use that is it on a desk
00:42:14 ◼ ► what what is it if you're using with Apple pencil how does that work like I'm sure that's
00:42:18 ◼ ► what they're struggling with when they look at this is there like what are the ergonomics
00:42:21 ◼ ► of a great big iPad because we already have the debate about the two iPad Pro sizes really
00:42:29 ◼ ► attracting different people and having issues there so I don't know I don't know what if
00:42:34 ◼ ► you have any thoughts about kind of big iPad or ergonomics yet because again we will revisit
00:42:39 ◼ ► this undoubtedly over the next couple of years as rumors percolate but like I'm fascinated
00:42:43 ◼ ► by that because I'm not sure I mean they're going to need to come up with some new thoughts
00:42:46 ◼ ► about how people hold and use iPads if they're going to try to sell a 16 inch iPad I think
00:42:52 ◼ ► they've already started that it's the magic keyboard like that's the start of that that's
00:42:56 ◼ ► you know because at that point your ergonomics are the same as a laptop you know by and large
00:43:30 ◼ ► you can also hold it but that's you know like that's the not like you hold it in your hands
00:43:36 ◼ ► and when you're ready you put it on your keyboard right like that's how we think about them
00:43:39 ◼ ► now it's more like the ads are going to show people like using an Apple pencil at a table
00:43:43 ◼ ► or in their lap or something right not just like holding it up and being like oh a movie
00:43:47 ◼ ► and I'm holding this heavy thing for a movie like you hold it in transit and then you put
00:43:52 ◼ ► it down onto something that it lives on like it's we're now in kind of like a different
00:43:56 ◼ ► space and personally like where I am I would like bigger on the higher end and deal with
00:44:08 ◼ ► best iPad pro the best iPad just I think it's the best I'm sure and then 12.9 is really
00:44:14 ◼ ► great for certain circumstances but for most people the 11 is the one that you would want
00:44:20 ◼ ► is the one that you should have I always say to people ask like to own a 12.9 inch iPad
00:44:32 ◼ ► an iPad don't know which one to get you probably want the 11 it would be my recommendation
00:44:38 ◼ ► to you the other thing that I'm it because you know this is the I want to believe thing
00:44:43 ◼ ► I actually wrote a piece about this at Macworld this week or last week which is the the continuing
00:44:51 ◼ ► drumbeat of all the reasons why as I've talked about on upgrade before the reasons why I
00:44:56 ◼ ► believe Apple is going to a windowing system or something with iPad OS and I actually did
00:45:10 ◼ ► existing for the most part existing iPad user interface stuff from iPad OS 15 and the answer
00:45:20 ◼ ► iPad and like I will throw in this idea of a 16 inch iPad like at some point full screen
00:45:29 ◼ ► or even split view apps when the screen becomes large become not just kind of ridiculous but
00:45:36 ◼ ► inefficient in the use of space on the screen and although I know there are people who like
00:45:43 ◼ ► you open Photoshop on your Mac and your 27 inch iMac and you put it in full screen mode
00:45:47 ◼ ► and you just got the content there well that's great but 99.9% of the time I use the Mac
00:45:53 ◼ ► I have multiple apps and multiple windows up and that's how that's how I can be efficient
00:46:08 ◼ ► a visual way of understanding that multitasking is going on and I think the iPad is going
00:46:12 ◼ ► to have to grapple with this in some way whether it's full-on floating windows or it's a tiling
00:46:17 ◼ ► system like what Microsoft is experimenting with a little bit more with Windows 11 like
00:46:22 ◼ ► whatever it is I think Apple has to do something otherwise there's a point at which the iPad
00:46:28 ◼ ► OS breaks concept breaks down and like the concept came from the iPhone the concept came
00:46:35 ◼ ► from the fact the iPhone screen is so small it can only run one thing at a time but like
00:46:43 ◼ ► different and it's it's got that bigger screen and you can put more information on it but
00:46:48 ◼ ► at some point here they're going to have to go beyond full screen and split view and the
00:46:53 ◼ ► fact that they're experimenting with center floating windows and quick note which is literally
00:46:58 ◼ ► a floating window on top of other content from a different app like it's literally this
00:47:23 ◼ ► attach an iPad Pro to a large display and allow apps to just run on it instead of using
00:47:31 ◼ ► it as a secondary because you got to do something because you know I love my iPad apps but I
00:47:35 ◼ ► don't want any of them to be full screen or even split view on a 27 inch monitor that's
00:47:52 ◼ ► removed some people they've made some changes but one of the key hires that they made recently
00:48:04 ◼ ► at companies like Faraday Future which is a new electric car company so they're continuing
00:48:19 ◼ ► that will come back it is going to come back we have a car we have a car segment that we
00:48:23 ◼ ► can do but anyway this guy got hired so you wouldn't hire somebody if you weren't working
00:48:29 ◼ ► on a car so there you go this episode of upgrade is brought to you by instabug building mobile
00:48:41 ◼ ► for developers but what if you could not only detect all of these issues but understand
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00:49:56 ◼ ► today our thanks to instabug for their support of this show and relay fm breaking news okay
00:50:04 ◼ ► breaking news uh monterrey beta 2 was released just now okay uh and last week late last week
00:50:13 ◼ ► we got beta 2 of ios and ipad os yes you're keeping score so everybody was sort of saying
00:50:36 ◼ ► about oh boy i i have this i have this titled as apple legislation and side loading and
00:50:54 ◼ ► attack of it tack it as much as we can today yeah so there were just a lot of things happening
00:51:00 ◼ ► last week i mean there's been a lot of things happening anyway but it started again last
00:51:05 ◼ ► week so the new york times had a report that states that tim cook has been reaching out
00:51:09 ◼ ► to various members of congress to talk about how the potential antitrust legislation currently
00:51:14 ◼ ► being debated in congress could have serious effects on the way that the company does business
00:51:25 ◼ ► that tim cook is concerned about are pretty wide ranging they came out of that antitrust
00:51:36 ◼ ► matter of months ago so it's and it's very unlikely that the five bills will all be passed
00:51:42 ◼ ► i mean mostly because uh i learned all this stuff from ben thompson you should you should
00:51:46 ◼ ► read and subscribe to checkery but really these a lot of the bills they overlap in weird
00:51:51 ◼ ► ways um and and it's likely that maybe only one of them will get passed in its entirety
00:51:57 ◼ ► of all but there is a strong possibility that something will get through congress as a result
00:52:07 ◼ ► be stuff like limiting what apps are pre-installed on devices and making users choose it could
00:52:13 ◼ ► limit the types of businesses apple are allowed to get into it could force them to give up
00:52:17 ◼ ► some of the businesses that they're currently in and could require them to make changes
00:52:22 ◼ ► to app store economics or have rival app stores available for the platform it is also worth
00:52:28 ◼ ► noting this isn't just an american thing there's a lot of stuff happening in the european union
00:52:40 ◼ ► the thing with spotify that i think we touched on a while ago it's just a case of waiting
00:52:44 ◼ ► to see what are they going to say apple has to do it's not you know they've already come
00:52:48 ◼ ► to that conclusion really so this is just another of those things i mean you would assume
00:52:53 ◼ ► naturally apple cares most about what happens in america um so that's kind of where we are
00:53:01 ◼ ► with that part of it my kind of take on this part is if any of these laws do get passed
00:53:08 ◼ ► it kind of feels like apple's greed and or desire for control could result in the iphone
00:53:15 ◼ ► being worse for its users right i think again ben thompson put this really nicely apple's
00:53:22 ◼ ► best feature is its integration in the operating system with the apps and services that it
00:53:26 ◼ ► makes but because they so harshly limit and put in such peculiar and i think wrong seeming
00:53:33 ◼ ► rules and limitations of some parts of their apps or business they actually risk the ability
00:53:38 ◼ ► to keep this integration alive and that could not only make things worse for them actually
00:53:43 ◼ ► ultimately could make things worse for apple's customers as well because they won't let go
00:53:47 ◼ ► a little bit yeah i mean imagine a world where you get an iphone and it has no apps on it
00:54:02 ◼ ► allowed to do that because unless they said every other notes app can do this too which
00:54:07 ◼ ► would be kind of great but they're unlikely honestly to even make that feature if that's
00:54:14 ◼ ► what they're told they have to do i think the general idea there is that you need space
00:54:18 ◼ ► to innovate without being told that innovation has to be checked by a court or that you know
00:54:25 ◼ ► or you have a lawyer say no you can't add that feature even though it would make people's
00:54:48 ◼ ► it's not all doom and gloom if we if you end up in a scenario where every time apple announces
00:55:02 ◼ ► where your messages content gets put in other apps right so when you're in news or safari
00:55:11 ◼ ► or um where else photos anyway it surfaces content that's been shared with you via messages
00:55:19 ◼ ► and we talked about it after the keynote like on one level that's cool on another level
00:55:25 ◼ ► in the context of a developer conference my immediate reaction is why is it only for apple's
00:55:34 ◼ ► ideally if there was going to be legislation like this it wouldn't be you can't do it it
00:55:39 ◼ ► would be you can do this but you need to let other people you need to build an api that
00:55:45 ◼ ► you use that is public and available to other developers not something that's private and
00:55:50 ◼ ► just for apple so the model changes the model becomes apple has to build this thing with
00:56:02 ◼ ► into its apps but to instead make the platform better and all of its competition third-party
00:56:08 ◼ ► add-ons could also take advantage of it that's the that's the ideal and i think is not unreasonable
00:56:15 ◼ ► however the problem is anything like this is going to have huge amounts of fallout that
00:56:19 ◼ ► are unintended and just what immediately comes to mind is apple is less likely to be motivated
00:56:25 ◼ ► to build these things if they have to do more work and also it doesn't benefit their apps
00:56:30 ◼ ► as much as it did before even if the right thing to do is always to open things up also
00:56:36 ◼ ► keep in mind sometimes apple strategy is they build it and then they iterate on it and then
00:56:45 ◼ ► and they use themselves to explore and then they then ideally they then kind of release
00:57:18 ◼ ► not intended but uh and that that's the other concern about something like this so i don't
00:57:26 ◼ ► made but i think that it as with a lot of this legislation it ends up being you're trying
00:57:40 ◼ ► to lead to a worse experience for users and that's who you're supposed to be protecting
00:58:10 ◼ ► big tech at the same time these are american companies that dominate technology and industry
00:58:16 ◼ ► all over the world and i'm not sure any american politician ultimately wants to be seen as
00:58:31 ◼ ► so you think i mean if you were going to just maybe make a bet you think that some of that
00:58:35 ◼ ► this stuff wouldn't get through congress my my if i had to predict and i'm i'm probably
00:58:43 ◼ ► down however uh the the because what politicians really want is they want to look good they
00:58:52 ◼ ► don't necessarily want to change the world they just want to look good and get re-elected
00:58:57 ◼ ► and be able to use this as a way of getting re-elected and ultimately you've got democrats
00:59:03 ◼ ► in power who who are uh generally you know the democrats want one thing the republicans
00:59:10 ◼ ► want a different thing the republicans um don't even talk about a lot of this uh business
00:59:15 ◼ ► regulation stuff because they're they're fundamentally they're kind of against it they're really
00:59:18 ◼ ► all talking about like why are conservative voices silenced on facebook and twitter yeah
00:59:22 ◼ ► that's their speech concerns yeah than antitrust whereas democrats are more skeptical of big
00:59:33 ◼ ► a lot of common ground to be found in washington at all and and where they find it uh is a
00:59:51 ◼ ► yes you need to be calling people and expressing your concern um you also need to show a level
01:00:23 ◼ ► fact that apple released a white paper with lots of illustrations and a lot of hypotheticals
01:00:29 ◼ ► that's kind of on point and also kind of really missing the point suggests to me that they're
01:00:41 ◼ ► a deal here i don't know i would i don't think i would have expected them to react like this
01:00:49 ◼ ► they're going to move against you is if you're completely obstinate you know are you going
01:00:52 ◼ ► all in is apple going all in and saying um try to try to change us right like that seems
01:00:58 ◼ ► like the wrong tack to take here but you know maybe they figure it nothing is nothing particular
01:01:13 ◼ ► an existential threat to apple so the white paper that jason's talking about it was published
01:01:23 ◼ ► same day um this is also last week this white paper is talking about the risks of allowing
01:01:35 ◼ ► from either outside of the app store directly from the web like you can on the mac or from
01:01:47 ◼ ► and android has these function these functionalities so apple state that this would be a serious
01:01:53 ◼ ► risk to the security of the ios platform they cite malicious software and malware being
01:01:58 ◼ ► 15 times higher on android uh quote i'll give a couple of quotes allowing side loading would
01:02:04 ◼ ► spur a flood of new investment into attacks on the platform and users would have to constantly
01:02:23 ◼ ► apple know that like why don't you just create a secure operating system to account for it
01:02:33 ◼ ► reference they give all these as jason mentioned these illustrated examples that are like meant
01:02:39 ◼ ► to like scare you i honestly feel like they've written a picture book for me which is really
01:02:44 ◼ ► uh um patronizing they talk about an app being able to hold all of your photos ransom unless
01:02:59 ◼ ► my expectation is photo permissions should stop this otherwise like an app could do this
01:03:11 ◼ ► app review like i don't really you know their their whole this is one of my big complaints
01:03:24 ◼ ► side loading is the one that comes out maybe it's just that they had this thing that they
01:03:31 ◼ ► but i part of me say this is the most likely outcome no well so here's the thing part of
01:03:36 ◼ ► me thinks that what they're really doing is building a straw man that is this spooky scary
01:03:45 ◼ ► world of side loading so that then they can offer a counter proposal which involves them
01:03:51 ◼ ► changing some of their policies right okay like so you set up the side loading it's like
01:03:56 ◼ ► who specifically said what we're going to do is for side loading i'm not sure it's really
01:04:03 ◼ ► that it's more like apple wants to raise this monster so that then it can say hey we've
01:04:12 ◼ ► of like you know they don't talk about how on mac os they've built in all of these solutions
01:04:18 ◼ ► involving uh notarization and uh developer certificates that have to be signed and it's
01:04:24 ◼ ► not the wild west and in fact you could you could even say that if apple had to do it's
01:04:33 ◼ ► very bad because we would be unable to stop it but the truth is that if apple was mandated
01:04:38 ◼ ► to do side loading but still had some latitude what it would do is do something very much
01:04:48 ◼ ► that aren't quite app store approval but do limit what gets approved they do have a kill
01:04:53 ◼ ► switch they could very much say like you can't use these apis we will scan for those those
01:05:05 ◼ ► point out that um we've seen on android that although it it can happen it happens on the
01:05:21 ◼ ► happen it would be an issue but i don't think it would be necessarily the dystopia that
01:05:25 ◼ ► apple portrays it and this is actually a huge reason why most people would stay in the app
01:05:31 ◼ ► store if side loading was allowed because even epic discovered when they did side loading
01:05:44 ◼ ► and they complained about it and they said oh it's all these warnings and they keep reminding
01:05:48 ◼ ► you that it's that it's a it's a danger and it's too much trouble and so they went back
01:05:53 ◼ ► in the google play store with fortnight because it was too much of a problem like that would
01:05:59 ◼ ► probably happen so it's a very peculiar thing where apple is describing something that is
01:06:05 ◼ ► more extreme than i think it would actually be that it's it's assuming that apple wouldn't
01:06:09 ◼ ► take measures against it which i unless they were precluded by the law to take measures
01:06:18 ◼ ► os and it makes me wonder again if what they're really trying to do here is just throw the
01:06:24 ◼ ► you know make everybody terrified about the um about the the risks of of uh of side loading
01:06:32 ◼ ► so that they can offer an alternative that's an interesting point i mean there is the parallel
01:06:44 ◼ ► there for the epic case right because this is one of the things that uh tim sweden wants
01:06:48 ◼ ► is not an app store but they are this this this paper is definitely doing multiple jobs
01:06:55 ◼ ► for them i think or at least is their attempt um on this idea of like like they're focused
01:07:07 ◼ ► be a bigger part i want to read a quote from john porter at the verge as i thought this
01:07:11 ◼ ► really nicely summed it up critics have pushed back against apple's claims about security
01:07:15 ◼ ► of apps in its store despite apple's assurances that it has a 500 plus strong team reviewing
01:07:25 ◼ ► scam apps slipping through its checks including some that hide casinos and kids apps or others
01:07:37 ◼ ► loading sure you make stuff would get through that you wouldn't want but app review doesn't
01:07:51 ◼ ► of how some of apple's arguments i feel would be more convincing if apple was behaving differently
01:08:01 ◼ ► in the real world right and this is a good example if apple could point to the app store
01:08:08 ◼ ► and say we have spent a lot of time over the last 10 years ensuring that there's no malware
01:08:21 ◼ ► has put out things john grouber linked to something the other week about like the sheer
01:08:30 ◼ ► they do and all that but like it doesn't change the story which is and yet all sorts of scam
01:08:36 ◼ ► apps are on the store so much so that if you make an effort to look for them you can find
01:09:06 ◼ ► how safe it is look how clean it is look look at why you want to stay with us in our app
01:09:12 ◼ ► store model because we're uh squeaky clean and they're not like they're not they haven't
01:09:17 ◼ ► made that enough of an effort to do that um and the same way goes for a lot of um of areas
01:09:28 ◼ ► where it's not about scams it's about apple wanting to protect what it has or make more
01:09:40 ◼ ► there would be warnings about installing other stuff and they would scare people away and
01:09:44 ◼ ► it's exactly the effect that epic talked about in the google play store most people aren't
01:09:47 ◼ ► going to want to go to the apps outside the app store most people are going to not want
01:09:57 ◼ ► much better than bringing in your credit card and putting it in an app or in a web page
01:10:11 ◼ ► notes this quote from uh eric new and schwander who is the head of user privacy at apple uh
01:10:24 ◼ ► because right now you're you you are uh tricked or duped into a dark alley and so then you're
01:10:35 ◼ ► the most like you said because right you said because there is no because in this quote
01:10:46 ◼ ► moves on eliminates choice it's free well freedom is strength and or what is it uh weakness
01:10:55 ◼ ► it is nonsense and in fact what it reminded me of is steve jobs who once said about the
01:10:59 ◼ ► ipad um uh what do you mean we don't offer you freedom we offer you freedom freedom from
01:11:05 ◼ ► programs that steal your data uh freedom from porn uh and you know anybody who tells you
01:11:12 ◼ ► that by preventing you from getting something they're supplying you with freedom um don't
01:11:17 ◼ ► believe them that's that's nonsense that's double speak that's that's that's just bizarre
01:11:23 ◼ ► madness so uh what i want to bring up is uh what apple doesn't really talk about is like
01:11:30 ◼ ► apple just like apple doesn't patrol the app store enough apple also doesn't want to talk
01:11:35 ◼ ► about the fact that they just suppress kinds of apps that they don't want to exist on their
01:11:39 ◼ ► platforms and it you know they can sometimes cloak it in the idea of protection but the
01:11:46 ◼ ► cloak varies in its coverage let's say sometimes the mask slips a little bit more but like
01:11:54 ◼ ► if you think about xbox game pass right apple views streaming games as an existential threat
01:12:09 ◼ ► on ios they beta tested it in test flight and apple said nope and and their reason they
01:12:14 ◼ ► gave a reason but their reason was ridiculous because the real reason yeah the real reason
01:12:27 ◼ ► hardware because it's going to make it harder for them to have their own you know apple
01:12:32 ◼ ► arcade and their own game library in the app store they don't they don't want it they don't
01:12:41 ◼ ► ourselves one of the reasons that apple doesn't want side loading is because apple wants to
01:12:51 ◼ ► users would benefit by having xbox game pass on the system users would benefit apple does
01:13:03 ◼ ► on hardware sales or whether it's on app they're cut of app money apple makes that decision
01:13:08 ◼ ► that way there are also all sorts of categories of apps that don't exist on on the ios app
01:13:13 ◼ ► store because again not because they don't work but because apple doesn't want them there
01:13:18 ◼ ► it used to be a lot more strict than it is now but there's still like very limited ways
01:13:26 ◼ ► emulators that you can do also the developers of those tools that are on the store have
01:13:36 ◼ ► apple can change its mind and say oh we said that was okay but we had a conversation at
01:13:41 ◼ ► a high level about apple's long-term strategy and what benefits apple and we're going to
01:13:45 ◼ ► take it off the store is it because of a user benefit not really not generally it's not
01:13:50 ◼ ► and so that's that's my frustration with this white paper is it's apple saying look we control
01:14:00 ◼ ► and to exert whatever control they need to do to make more money for apple yeah and again
01:14:20 ◼ ► say well what we propose is a little more opening up of things in the existing app store
01:14:44 ◼ ► maybe world-changing apps don't exist because either apple wouldn't approve it or it will
01:14:54 ◼ ► require a level of investment not knowing if apple would approve it or kick it out after
01:15:05 ◼ ► and that's where we are with the app store being the only path forward and there's there
01:15:12 ◼ ► you know sideloading is not the only solution here the other solution is that apple changes
01:15:16 ◼ ► its policies but apple is very self-interested up to this point in not wanting to bother
01:15:21 ◼ ► changing its policies and and you know the only option is not sideloading the other option
01:15:26 ◼ ► is apple opens up the app store to more kinds of apps i know for me i would argue on apple's
01:15:53 ◼ ► by app review right i would be on their side if the app store rules were fairer but considering
01:16:00 ◼ ► i don't think the app store rules are fair considering where we are today if apple refuses
01:16:12 ◼ ► there can be increased competition so apple can be can have their feet held to the fire
01:16:17 ◼ ► to do a better job and like so when i talk about fair i took i think 30 is too high considering
01:16:24 ◼ ► what developers get um i think people should be able to use their own payment methods if
01:16:29 ◼ ► they want to why should they not be able to why is apple pay or like apple's payment system
01:16:34 ◼ ► the only way that things can be done basically what we were talking about what microsoft's
01:16:38 ◼ ► doing right um i think app review is mostly fine you know i think there needs to be changes
01:16:45 ◼ ► but you know it's like i agree with everything you said by the way right like i think that
01:16:54 ◼ ► be let in but honestly so many of the problems that we have of app review are actually not
01:16:59 ◼ ► about the rules of app review for the sake of why apps need to be reviewed the the issues
01:17:12 ◼ ► in-app purchase is maintained that's my main issue with app review and it is going like
01:17:18 ◼ ► that's the issue with xbox game pass for example yeah right the the whole argument about side
01:17:25 ◼ ► loading like like i appreciate that i can run any app on the mac that i want and i have
01:17:32 ◼ ► to go through some security settings and and all that but i can do it i appreciate that
01:17:37 ◼ ► i wouldn't mind that on the on the ipad and the iphone however i do understand the size
01:17:44 ◼ ► of the market and the fact that it's a lot of even more non-technical users than on the
01:17:58 ◼ ► to lower their security and install a thing and they get talked into it because they don't
01:18:01 ◼ ► understand it and they end up in a place that's bad and that even if apple makes every effort
01:18:11 ◼ ► apple's white paper is a little bit is disingenuous but there are serious security issues with
01:18:17 ◼ ► side loading but why are we even talking about side loading we're talking about side loading
01:18:21 ◼ ► because there's no other option and apple's so restrictive on what happens in the store
01:18:28 ◼ ► so you're not left like if you're an ios developer and you want to do something and apple doesn't
01:18:32 ◼ ► want you to do it you literally can't do it and and you could say well you go to another
01:18:36 ◼ ► platform if you're an ios developer and your skill set is on apple's platforms you can't
01:18:44 ◼ ► you need to retrain for a different industry because this industry doesn't exist anymore
01:18:49 ◼ ► or doesn't want you here anymore and that that's the challenge here is that like i think
01:18:54 ◼ ► the standard in a completely closed environment like the app store for flexibility for the
01:19:05 ◼ ► do side loading that's fine what is your other offer and you you detailed it and i like i
01:19:12 ◼ ► said i think this may be kind of part of a ploy it's an initial gambit for them to ultimately
01:19:21 ◼ ► this stuff it may even be a negotiating tactic with with the legislators to say what you
01:19:27 ◼ ► know basically what can we give you to not do the side loading thing because it's really
01:19:43 ◼ ► they could do that but they may do some other they may start okay let's take xcode cloud
01:19:51 ◼ ► they have to pay apple to do their hosted stuff it's a it's not covered in your developer
01:19:56 ◼ ► account as far as we know pricing to be announced later but it's not going to be covered in
01:19:59 ◼ ► your developer account well that's an interesting precedent to set right that is another place
01:20:04 ◼ ► where apple is going to charge its developers we've talked a lot and i know you've talked
01:20:08 ◼ ► about it on connected as well about the idea that apple bought dark sky and they've extended
01:20:13 ◼ ► the dark sky api a year but there's this thought like there are a lot of sleazy weather apps
01:20:22 ◼ ► apple uh you know dark sky is buying and data and then offering people access to that data
01:20:28 ◼ ► and there's a business model there and we've talked about what if they offered a weather
01:20:33 ◼ ► kit to app developers and said this is how you do your weather and you use the dark sky
01:20:37 ◼ ► api which is now instead it's weather kit and but as we know and have been reminded by some
01:20:55 ◼ ► i know this like i know this is going to sound wild but like well maybe apple charges for
01:21:06 ◼ ► it it's a it's a an os framework that you have to pay for access to could be like there's
01:21:21 ◼ ► the unintended consequences of all of this right like it's going to be messier than you
01:21:26 ◼ ► think it's going to be no matter what happens but in the end i can't look at that side loading
01:21:33 ◼ ► paper without rolling my eyes at how extreme its examples are and all the things that it
01:21:46 ◼ ► i've come up with is they want to make this so scary that they can put in it in the context
01:21:57 ◼ ► and would i be okay if we never had side loading on i on ios and ipad os yeah i mean we've
01:22:09 ◼ ► work that they would you're opening to another level of kind of scaminess but it's also a
01:22:15 ◼ ► solution to a problem that apple can solve its own its itself right it's a it's a solution
01:22:21 ◼ ► to a problem that apple causes by its policies and and if apple's proposing that it can't
01:22:28 ◼ ► you can't do the solution and it's not going to change its policies that seems really dumb
01:22:32 ◼ ► so i have to kind of assume that it's it's don't do this because instead let's just modify
01:22:38 ◼ ► our policies but if they really believe that they can keep their control over the app store
01:22:50 ◼ ► right like they detailed their own fears about it it's a huge risk if they don't change their
01:22:54 ◼ ► policies they're risking making their platform worse at some point you gotta you gotta recalibrate
01:23:00 ◼ ► and say no that's a mistake honestly at this point i don't even know what they're fighting
01:23:19 ◼ ► small percentage of the revenue every year like is that the point is it so the services
01:23:45 ◼ ► what are you what is the outcome you're looking for from this like do you think that if you
01:23:55 ◼ ► uh last week i think i mentioned michael gardenberg uh the analyst who used to uh work at apple
01:24:00 ◼ ► um i followed him before and i knew him before and then he went inside at apple and and then
01:24:06 ◼ ► he he left apple and he still doesn't talk about the apple stuff too much but something
01:24:10 ◼ ► he said um that struck me this week was apple has within it this culture that is the near-death
01:24:31 ◼ ► and sweeping people away and inst and we talked about it with their work from home policies
01:24:40 ◼ ► it has hurt them however apple was about to go out of business and steve jobs instilled
01:24:58 ◼ ► every last dollar we can every last dollar we can and it's a it's a strategy that maybe
01:25:05 ◼ ► doesn't win a lot of friends but you can understand it when you are the hard scrabble almost went
01:25:17 ◼ ► market share and they take every dollar like i get it but does somebody need to tell them
01:25:23 ◼ ► who they are so this is this is what i'm saying is is now they're not that and yet that culture
01:25:38 ◼ ► did it you know i tried i fought that that monster the corporate culture monster at idg
01:25:44 ◼ ► for a long long time it's very hard to change corporate culture and so i that's my diagnosis
01:25:57 ◼ ► that was again 20 plus years ago and they're now the biggest company around more or less
01:26:07 ◼ ► but it's still in there and my guess is that these are different parts of apple that are
01:26:11 ◼ ► probably fighting each other internally which is there's a part of apple that if you couple
01:26:16 ◼ ► its take every dollar off the table with its kind of also instilled by steve jobs arrogance
01:26:27 ◼ ► along for the ride which steve jobs absolutely believed and the source of a lot of developer
01:26:34 ◼ ► disenchantment with apple's attitude toward them can be traced to that which is i think
01:26:38 ◼ ► that to this day there are lots of executives at apple who if you really press them on it
01:26:43 ◼ ► would insist that apple is the one that makes it valuable apple's the one that makes the
01:26:58 ◼ ► i would argue that without third-party apps the iphone would never have succeeded right
01:27:03 ◼ ► but apple can't do it they can't admit that someone other than apple is shares the responsibility
01:27:11 ◼ ► for the success of their products they can't admit it that's also a steve jobs thing so
01:27:16 ◼ ► when i look at this i am really seeing a company that is being pushed and the pressure keeps
01:27:21 ◼ ► increasing to have to give in to accept that one of the illusions of their corporate culture
01:27:30 ◼ ► is no longer valid and what's terrifying about it as somebody who likes their products is
01:27:37 ◼ ► i'm not entirely sure that they won't commit business suicide in order to hold to those
01:27:43 ◼ ► beliefs because that's what it's looking like like it probably won't happen but imagine
01:27:49 ◼ ► a world where apple is forced to break itself apart and ship iphones without built-in software
01:27:54 ◼ ► or split off its os business from its hardware business at which point it's lost all of the
01:28:09 ◼ ► can see it you can see it in the emails you can see it in that white paper there is really
01:28:13 ◼ ► this belief at apple uh that is that you know they need to control everything and they need
01:28:19 ◼ ► to take every dollar off the table and even in situations where it's clear that they could
01:28:25 ◼ ► have gotten the heat off of them a long time ago they haven't made those decisions like
01:28:30 ◼ ► even when they and even when they make a decision like that like with the small business program
01:28:34 ◼ ► where they cut the cut of app developers who make a million dollars or less uh to 15 from
01:28:40 ◼ ► 30 even there it's so riddled with footnotes and you know they didn't just say we're cutting
01:28:48 ◼ ► it to 15 they're like well for the for the people who are under a million we're cutting
01:28:55 ◼ ► they've got to apply to come back in and like they didn't need to do that they could have
01:28:58 ◼ ► said the first million but somebody in there is like oh i can't let epic have the first
01:29:10 ◼ ► not saying i i do think apple needs to change i think that if you're somebody who believes
01:29:14 ◼ ► no everything apple's doing is great um the truth is that uh have you seen what's going
01:29:19 ◼ ► on in the legislatures and with the regulators like there is increasing pressure and politicians
01:29:26 ◼ ► do want to win and something's going to have to give and you know i i anyway i think the
01:29:32 ◼ ► challenge really is that there are very closely held beliefs that apple has that were built
01:29:37 ◼ ► up by steve jobs and as much as after steve jobs died they said um you know don't do don't
01:29:44 ◼ ► ask yourself what would steve do um the truth is that apple's corporate culture is steve
01:29:50 ◼ ► jobs's ultimate product and this is a tough one to change so that that's the best i can
01:30:01 ◼ ► this they just can't bear to give back money and give back a little bit of control because
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01:32:47 ◼ ► for their support of this show and relay fm hey mike that last segment was sure fun wasn't
01:32:55 ◼ ► summer fun fun ask upgrade brian asks oh i don't know what that last part it was a summary
01:33:19 ◼ ► how's it going i am a i am a gas griller charcoal is way too much effort and way too much work
01:33:33 ◼ ► let me use that i live in a place where it doesn't get oppressively hot most of the time
01:33:40 ◼ ► and so i don't have to have to resort to cooking outside it's nice to do but i don't have to
01:33:53 ◼ ► just way too much work for uh for what i want to do so i'm lazy gas all the way mike do
01:34:10 ◼ ► typically invest in gas grills because there isn't enough time in the year right so a charcoal
01:34:16 ◼ ► grill is is the cheapest way to get into grilling and is maybe easiest for if you're doing it
01:34:21 ◼ ► infrequently so my personal taste is for charcoal i like that the flavor that that imbues however
01:34:33 ◼ ► i would always prefer to cook on a gas grill because it's so much easier so much easier
01:34:38 ◼ ► so much easier i'm never in a situation where i'm grilling for a large number of people
01:35:05 ◼ ► whatever yeah i could see it but i'm never doing that and i do grill stuff all the time
01:35:12 ◼ ► all year round honestly um with the gas grill because it's super easy to use so that's my
01:35:18 ◼ ► answer um we had a giant charcoal grill when i was a kid like i get it i get the appeal
01:35:40 ◼ ► only eat in the summer which is a burger from a barbecue it's like a totally different thing
01:35:47 ◼ ► right you go to a friend or family member's house and they cook you a burger on the barbecue
01:35:50 ◼ ► oh yeah it's like you've typically got like a bun which is cold and right like a cheese
01:36:04 ◼ ► put the cheese on the burger towards the end of the process so there are and you've got
01:36:13 ◼ ► but like what i'm specifically talking about is a thing that i enjoy is that thing from
01:36:24 ◼ ► is like that nostalgic flavor yeah and taste and like texture of this type of barbecued
01:36:33 ◼ ► burger from say my uncle's house yeah i think i'm gonna go with that too actually i think
01:36:38 ◼ ► that the the barbecue the grilled burger uh in on a hot day standing outside sitting outside
01:36:56 ◼ ► something like that but no it's it's a it's a burger off of a grill i think that's just
01:37:01 ◼ ► right jeremy asks what is your favorite summer beverage iced tea was gonna be my answer but
01:37:08 ◼ ► i'm gonna save that for a future question spoilers um no my my favorite summer beverage
01:37:15 ◼ ► is the generic way to phrase it would probably be a shandy but basically uh and when i was
01:37:29 ◼ ► the street from the emirates stadium my friend simon who lives in highbury lives in in in
01:37:42 ◼ ► beer with lemonade on top but again it's british lemonade so it's actually a lemon lime lemon
01:37:47 ◼ ► it's right it's what we call lemonade is closer to sprite is sprite because it's bubbly um
01:38:01 ◼ ► pretty great now it comes in different varieties i will sometimes get a uh sometimes i just
01:38:08 ◼ ► will have a beer that is citrusy so like uh a belgian white with an orange flavor in it
01:38:15 ◼ ► like uh i get the it's called orange avenue wit from corona brewing company in san diego
01:38:20 ◼ ► that's a great summer beer uh there's a brewery called uh two pitchers that makes a grapefruit
01:38:25 ◼ ► shandy that's really good um they're sometimes i will just take a beer like a wheat beer
01:38:32 ◼ ► and i'll put lemonade in it our lemonade so not the bubbly kind but i'll do that and that's
01:38:40 ◼ ► are still had that citrus feel um there's a corona brewing does an ipa a hazy ipa that's
01:38:45 ◼ ► uh has pineapple hi everybody pineapple and uh and i found a bunch of other kind of hazy
01:38:59 ◼ ► feel and that for me and i love dark beer and i still drink dark beer in the summertime
01:39:17 ◼ ► love a pimm's here right um in in london my my wife adina has a weekly comic uh this is
01:39:41 ◼ ► as well a cold coke yeah that's a good one just like just a cold coke in a glass bottle
01:39:50 ◼ ► like that is like so different it's so different in the summer got a real sense memory thing
01:39:55 ◼ ► about that yeah i i have uh it's coke zero but we have that keep that in the fridge and
01:40:08 ◼ ► the hills and it was pretty warm day yesterday and i came back and i was like i'm gonna have
01:40:13 ◼ ► one of those cold coke zeros because there's something about it it's a and it's also feels
01:40:19 ◼ ► like childhood a little bit and and it's just got that feeling that sense memory of summer
01:40:23 ◼ ► but in general thank you england for the lager top not the pimm's cup i don't like the pimm's
01:40:38 ◼ ► great so i'll put lemonade in beer you make it manly and also what does that even matter
01:40:43 ◼ ► anyway right no no i think it's dumb right this is that's my point is that people judge
01:40:47 ◼ ► you if you put lemonade in your beer and it's like well too bad you're missing out on good
01:40:51 ◼ ► things because you're dumb so there yeah that's right maxell asks do you feel comfortable
01:41:14 ◼ ► i'm okay with it i don't bring my iphone or ipad to the beach generally i bring the iphone
01:41:24 ◼ ► it'll probably get out um the i do a lot though with my my watch so uh i'm not worried about
01:41:44 ◼ ► i don't care because that's why i why i have it most of that stuff is pretty waterproof
01:41:48 ◼ ► now so i i don't i don't get too worried about it what about you mike no i don't i don't
01:41:53 ◼ ► think about it i don't really care about it i mean i have apple care like i'll just deal
01:41:56 ◼ ► with it later this is like a general thing for me i think i'm not particularly precious
01:42:14 ◼ ► bump them into a wall and i scratched them a little bit like okay like that's what i've
01:42:22 ◼ ► feel about this kind of stuff i try not to worry too much it's going to enjoy your things
01:42:34 ◼ ► kind of e-ink reader those are like made for the beach or poolside they are made for it
01:42:40 ◼ ► because the no matter how much backlight there is and how much anti-reflective coating apple
01:42:46 ◼ ► puts on an iphone or an ipad like it's still kind of hard to read in the sun and a kindle
01:42:52 ◼ ► or a kobo i have a kobo now um but like those e-ink readers are so good because they're
01:43:04 ◼ ► and you know you don't want to be bothered with notifications and stuff when you're sitting
01:43:07 ◼ ► poolside you want to just be uh reading your book so definitely worth it instantiate this
01:43:24 ◼ ► it sit in the sun for a few hours and then when i'm ready to go from the tea to the iced
01:43:36 ◼ ► makes a lot of tea and dumps it in a pitcher that's full of ice and it's great and so on
01:43:41 ◼ ► a hot day that is absolutely what i will turn to in the uh in the afternoon iced tea is
01:43:53 ◼ ► it's the afternoon and i will just pour that into a glass with some ice and you know that's
01:43:57 ◼ ► how you make iced tea can you explain sun tea sun tea it's like you know cold brew coffee
01:44:04 ◼ ► yeah it's like that but it's cold brew it's out in the sun do you add ice to it afterwards
01:44:25 ◼ ► brewing in warm water and so sun tea is a thing i don't know i grew up with it the idea
01:44:36 ◼ ► a little dispenser on the bottom but not necessarily and you put in like a bunch of tea bags and
01:45:07 ◼ ► in the south is they just add they don't ask you have to ask to not have sweet tea they
01:45:22 ◼ ► too it's also too much i put sweetener in my iced tea i do i want it sweeter i put honey
01:45:29 ◼ ► in my tea in the morning i i sweeten tea i am a tea sweetener but the sweet tea the southern
01:45:35 ◼ ► sweet tea although it is amazing is also i couldn't have that every time because it would
01:45:46 ◼ ► to know what my preferred summer coffee is so i like uh iced lattes um so it's effectively
01:45:57 ◼ ► it's like a bunch of milk and stuff it's not firm milk obviously because it adds the heat
01:46:22 ◼ ► so i like to put a bit of sweetener in that but just in general i prefer to have um sweetener
01:46:28 ◼ ► i don't know if there's something about honestly the i don't know this like the the heating
01:46:33 ◼ ► of the milk which might make it sweeter that when you add hot milk like a hot milk coffee
01:46:40 ◼ ► drink that there is more sweetness in that milk so i don't know if that's the case this
01:46:46 ◼ ► is a theory that i am just creating uh right now top of my head yeah i like an iced latte
01:46:58 ◼ ► this with our favorite some of my beverage i feel like we've already covered this ground
01:47:30 ◼ ► before because it's mine too i love mint choc chip as well yeah i also don't sleep on vanilla
01:47:39 ◼ ► just made some homemade vanilla ice cream last night very nice um if you've got a kitchen
01:47:45 ◼ ► aid mixer by the way a little tip here a little summer a fun tip if you have a kitchen aid
01:47:49 ◼ ► mixer get the ice cream maker attachment it is the best ice cream maker i have ever had
01:47:56 ◼ ► and i've gone through a lot of them but it the bowl just goes where your mixer bowl would
01:48:10 ◼ ► hour or two and you got great ice cream so i highly recommend homemade ice cream is the
01:48:20 ◼ ► it's like also not been transferred in various trucks that may have melted a little and then
01:48:24 ◼ ► re-frozen it a little it's got more air in it so like good homemade ice cream is amazing
01:48:36 ◼ ► ice cream maker so good i will also say like so uh mint choc chip is my favorite like going
01:48:42 ◼ ► to like a store and getting a cone or whatever but i also love many ben and jerry's flavors
01:49:04 ◼ ► a ben and jerry's uh retail outlet right like that was pretty great and then we have a great
01:49:11 ◼ ► uh ice cream chain that just went out of business during the pandemic called three twins and
01:49:20 ◼ ► a pinch uh mint chip is just my my go-to my favorite ice cream place in the world though
01:49:28 ◼ ► is salt and straw and i think i've been to three of them now or in like three different
01:49:33 ◼ ► places super good big fan yeah r.i.p three twins so good and then they decided to expand
01:49:40 ◼ ► into like the do you know the ice cream business the retail ice cream shipping to stores not
01:49:56 ◼ ► were as people and as good as their ice cream was you you can't compete in the in the freezer
01:50:00 ◼ ► section it's just it's brutal in there it's hard to compete like ice cream it's good but
01:50:06 ◼ ► boy don't be in the ice cream business it'll get you this episode is also brought to you
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01:51:40 ◼ ► to learn more thanks to expressvpn for the support of this show and relay fm next question
01:51:47 ◼ ► comes from simon do you prefer sand beaches pebble beaches on no beach at all hmm i prefer
01:52:02 ◼ ► umbrella or something some other kind of shade uh ideally it's an you know an ocean where
01:52:08 ◼ ► you're getting the kind of the waves pounding a little bit i love it you know there's a
01:52:15 ◼ ► reason i love hawaii mike one of the reasons is that the beaches they're really good so
01:52:20 ◼ ► i like i like that this is where john syracusa would pop in and say something about mud beaches
01:52:25 ◼ ► at lakes like i i don't i don't do that i i i'm i'm a sand beach kind of person i'm gonna
01:52:47 ◼ ► had two because i've been to the lake district twice and the lakes there are beautiful and
01:52:57 ◼ ► i want to be by the beach and and so that would be my choice yeah like the lake district
01:53:02 ◼ ► is like its own thing here right like people don't go to the lake district is my expectation
01:53:08 ◼ ► in a way as if this is kind of like our beach vacation right which is my understanding at
01:53:13 ◼ ► least from people i know in america that that is a thing that you can do right like you
01:53:25 ◼ ► if you're in like minnesota or something like i have people i know in minnesota and they
01:53:30 ◼ ► go you know they go to their cabin in the lakes and and they're on a lake and it's it's
01:53:35 ◼ ► fine it's great but like what's my preference my preference is definitely uh the beach like
01:53:46 ◼ ► go we we used to go to a family camp up in the sierras by a lake and would you know use
01:53:56 ◼ ► all great that's fun but if i have to choose i'm gonna go i'm gonna go beach i like sand
01:54:01 ◼ ► beaches i don't know who prefers pebble beaches i don't know why you would prefer that i mean
01:54:14 ◼ ► to sit on the pebble beach i read a great story uh i think it was in the new york times
01:54:22 ◼ ► and it was about how british people are vacationing in the uk this year because they have no other
01:54:32 ◼ ► choice and it's all of these towns that used to be very successful um who are now uh not
01:54:46 ◼ ► because everybody in the uk now goes on vacation to spain where they can have a sunny beach
01:54:54 ◼ ► and one of the things that struck me about it was bognor bognor regis was the town that
01:54:58 ◼ ► they went to and it's like oh i love hearing you say that jason that's so fun for me how
01:55:09 ◼ ► just like the bognor like the way that i don't know well so bognor used to be bognor and
01:55:27 ◼ ► no no you'll get better and you'll go to bognor and he and his last words allegedly were i
01:55:33 ◼ ► don't want to go to bognor uh which is they've been trying to live that down the point is
01:55:46 ◼ ► go there anymore so there you go bognor enjoy i mean a uk beach holiday is its own like
01:55:57 ◼ ► something yeah and it's like amusements which is an arcade and very particular types of
01:56:02 ◼ ► donuts boardwalk kind of thing yeah like i love all that kind of stuff um i have a special
01:56:08 ◼ ► it has a special place in my heart you know but i much prefer a real beach in a hot place
01:56:32 ◼ ► the new york times uh is next year brits will fly abroad but for now it's bogner bingo yep
01:56:51 ◼ ► little weird you know because of the pandemic and are still a little bit weird so that's
01:56:55 ◼ ► that's just part of it so good for the people of bogner that they've got you know people
01:57:00 ◼ ► visiting but but i i what what hit me about that story was when they got to the part where
01:57:17 ◼ ► know favorite baseball park food hot dog yeah it's a hot dog there are lots of you know
01:57:24 ◼ ► we have great food at ballparks these days they like the the um food and drink at american
01:57:38 ◼ ► options i've had a great barbecue sandwich at the at the giant stadium i've had a fantastic
01:57:44 ◼ ► uh there's a they have a rice a hot rice and bean bowl the cha-cha bowl that is uh amazing
01:57:52 ◼ ► but like and then the garlic fries are famous like there are all these all these things
01:57:56 ◼ ► you can get that are good i had shake shack at the met stadium right like there are but
01:58:02 ◼ ► my favorite i mean and that i still get we went to a game a few weeks ago our first game
01:58:06 ◼ ► this year or last year and um in the end what did i have a couple a couple of little beef
01:58:12 ◼ ► hot dogs from the the hot dog stand it's like because it's baseball like a beer and a hot
01:58:16 ◼ ► dog i i sometimes get those fancy uh baseball pretensions and i go get a cha-cha bowl or
01:58:51 ◼ ► little sunglass things oh you do a clip-on yeah yeah you you do good clip-on your clip-on's
01:59:00 ◼ ► bright and then take them off when it when the cloud goes in front of the sun so i just
01:59:11 ◼ ► would prefer prescription sunglasses but then i also have to carry the glasses yeah it's
01:59:24 ◼ ► the time i would do no sunglasses uh but like i will never wear sunglasses in the uk because
01:59:31 ◼ ► it's just like i just don't do it but if i'm going on vacation i will take my prescription
01:59:48 ◼ ► has cool yeah i mean yeah i had to buy basically i had to shop for if i want clip-ons i have
01:59:54 ◼ ► to shop for glasses that come with clip-ons or that you can buy clip-ons for because otherwise
01:59:58 ◼ ► you're retrofitting it and it never fits right and they don't look right so i i just put
02:00:25 ◼ ► i have to also carry my glasses and like i if i'm in the summer i don't want a bag right
02:00:31 ◼ ► because it's hot so i don't want a bag right so i go with just my regular glasses and have
02:00:38 ◼ ► no sunglasses nathan asks in the areas where each of you live how many months does summer
02:00:53 ◼ ► i think it might be easier for me to answer this go ahead about three months right kind
02:01:16 ◼ ► way that summer is rainy which is different to winter rainy fun summer rainy is way worse
02:01:23 ◼ ► it's so much worse uh and um i would say for me here that's enough like just enough verging
02:01:36 ◼ ► on too much yeah um so this is a complicated question because of where i live i would say
02:01:46 ◼ ► that we get summer in in september and october and then interspersed from may through the
02:02:14 ◼ ► october is the dry season here and it's of a kind but like for for where i live feeling
02:02:22 ◼ ► like it's summer down here by the bay uh only really happens for two months plus a handful
02:02:35 ◼ ► don't think that's enough summer i would like you know i i happen to live with a with a
02:02:45 ◼ ► and my wife disagrees she like she likes this level she doesn't want it hotter i would like
02:03:00 ◼ ► hotter so uh and in terms of of the overall health of my state i would say it's it's uh
02:03:11 ◼ ► summer so in that way the summer should be shorter but i don't get to control the weather
02:03:22 ◼ ► controlling you're just learning right now yeah dave asks what are your favorite gadgets
02:03:27 ◼ ► or tools that you only use during the summer well for me a lot of the stuff that gets pulled
02:03:33 ◼ ► out of the storage in the in the summer is like the cushions for the the backyard furniture
02:03:41 ◼ ► and the the hammock we do use the the grill all all year long so and then um also we got
02:03:55 ◼ ► that you know in the winter it's less likely that we're going to be hanging out outside
02:03:59 ◼ ► that's more of a summer thing and even then only on summer days where it's not freezing
02:04:03 ◼ ► outside after the sun goes down but uh i would say the string lights the the you know the
02:04:13 ◼ ► sono speaker that i put outside in the summer and it just sits out there so i can airplay
02:04:29 ◼ ► kind of cheating a little bit we have we have a couple one of them we only use in the summer
02:04:46 ◼ ► was like all right i gotta get a new fan and i thought i'm gonna get the dyson fan they
02:04:58 ◼ ► we'll run it in there but it mostly just sits on my desk sort of very quietly circulating
02:05:08 ◼ ► furniture from ikea holding up the uh the ikea furniture is great i mentioned the cushions
02:05:18 ◼ ► that's all part of frozen quest back in the day one one cover still i know it came from
02:05:33 ◼ ► the it's great um you know i was always reluctant to get um you know it's it's plastic furniture
02:05:40 ◼ ► basically but it's what you know it's woven and it's sort of rattan like and i was never
02:05:53 ◼ ► unless you're really in the sort of beginning of spring um otherwise we put them away for
02:05:59 ◼ ► the winter but uh so they just basically stay out there and i gotta gotta clean them off
02:06:07 ◼ ► stuff and pollen you gotta brush off but basically they're really comfortable it's really nice
02:06:12 ◼ ► having a couch outside essentially and then um we have some uh not from ikea but we have
02:06:19 ◼ ► a a table and and chairs and stuff that we bought a while ago that is falling apart and
02:06:25 ◼ ► i am uh i ordered new uh a new table and chairs and stuff that i'm really looking forward
02:06:33 ◼ ► to because i think that's going to kind of be the final um if anything can be considered
02:06:38 ◼ ► final upgrade to the uh to the backyard ever since we poured the concrete and and really
02:06:43 ◼ ► redid our backyard and so you put the new concrete the string lights the ikea furniture
02:06:48 ◼ ► and then this new table that we're going to get i feel like we'll finally kind of completed
02:06:53 ◼ ► our project to make our backyard nicer because our house isn't very big and so when it's
02:06:59 ◼ ► nice out it is really nice to be able to use the house gets bigger and i'll tell you last
02:07:22 ◼ ► a summer themed ask upgrade question if you would like to send us one in for the future
02:07:26 ◼ ► i mean if you really have some summer question that we haven't asked you can feel free to
02:07:31 ◼ ► send them in but usually they're tech focused just send out a tweet with the hashtag ask
02:07:43 ◼ ► will get longer ad-free episodes every single week if you need a longer episode than this
02:08:01 ◼ ► upgrade your wardrobe.com where you can pick up a summer of fun t-shirt or a dongle town
02:08:08 ◼ ► t-shirt or a dongle town surf club t-shirt available for just two weeks please go there