354: Even Safari Knows It's Yellow


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:08   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 354. Today's show is brought to you by Memberful,

00:00:15   Pingdom, and Public Sector Future from Microsoft. My name is Myke Hurley and I am joined by Jason Snell. Hi Jason Snell.

00:00:22   From my garage, I'm Jason Snell. Hi Myke Hurley.

00:00:26   Hi, I have a #Snellkatalk question for you from Arjun. What's it called?

00:00:30   A Snellkatalk. Snellkatalk?

00:00:32   Yeah, I'm changing it up today. It's #Snellkatalk.

00:00:35   From Arjun. Okkate.

00:00:37   Who asks, "When walking outside in the rain, where do you keep your iPhone?

00:00:41   Trousal pocket inside your coat underneath an iPhone-sized umbrella? What do you do?"

00:00:46   Well, this has got to be for you and not me because it doesn't rain in California anymore.

00:00:50   We don't have that anymore. In fact, this question came in and I thought,

00:00:54   "Oh man, imagine that it rained." Ok.

00:00:57   When it's raining, if I'm outside, it so seldom rains, I would, I just put it in my pocket.

00:01:02   I mean, I just put it in my pocket. And modern iPhones are all kind of waterproof-ish anyway,

00:01:08   and it's in my pocket. And so yeah, it's in my pocket. That's it.

00:01:10   I feel like the two of us don't really worry about that because we are both professed to take the phone in the shower, people.

00:01:18   Right? I feel like at that point, that's way more water than any rainfall would put on the phone.

00:01:24   The problem with taking the phone in the shower is that the touchscreen stops working properly.

00:01:28   But if all you're doing is using it as a speaker because you don't have your speaker

00:01:32   or your speaker has a dead battery or something, then it doesn't matter.

00:01:36   So yeah, in the rain, it doesn't worry me.

00:01:37   The biggest issue is if a water drop gets into the speaker because then it sounds like your phone's on the water.

00:01:42   It doesn't happen very often, but it happens just enough that it can be frustrating.

00:01:46   As a place where there is rain, I mean, I'm more concerned about keeping myself dry than I am the phone.

00:01:53   So like I have an umbrella, right? So then the phone benefits from my umbrella-ness.

00:01:57   Or if you've got a raincoat, then if it's long enough to go over your pocket, then your phone is protected in the pocket.

00:02:04   Even with a raincoat, I will always want to have an umbrella.

00:02:07   I don't like getting the water on me even if I have a coat.

00:02:10   Mmm, interesting.

00:02:11   Because the raincoat doesn't protect your trousers or your shoes or any of that.

00:02:15   No, it doesn't. It's true. I will take an umbrella, but not as often.

00:02:19   I think maybe the difference is that when I'm out, if I'm walking the dog or something like that, I don't bring an umbrella.

00:02:25   And that's mostly if I'm out in the rain.

00:02:28   It used to be I had to go to work and I had to commute and I had to go places in the rain.

00:02:32   But now I don't have to go places in the rain. Plus, there's no rain.

00:02:36   But yes, if I was walking to the bus stop or something like that, I would have a raincoat on and I would have an umbrella.

00:02:41   It's true. It's true. But my phone would still just be in my pocket.

00:02:44   So, we actually have an action-packed show today, so I'm probably not going to end this rain discussion here.

00:02:49   If you would like to help us open an episode of Upgrade, just send out a tweet with the hashtag #snowtalk

00:02:54   and yours may be included in the future.

00:02:57   WWDC draft next week.

00:02:59   I can't believe we actually know when a draft is going to happen, but we know.

00:03:03   Yeah, it's hard to believe that WWDC is in two weeks and that our draft is next week.

00:03:07   And it is hard to believe, because we've been so...it's been a year, basically,

00:03:11   to have enough notice that we can do a draft without it being an emergency draft.

00:03:17   And we can plan it and we can do it with a full week to go.

00:03:19   So, next week.

00:03:21   The problem now, Myke, is that we're going to have to imagine all the possibilities for operating system revisions.

00:03:29   This is the hardest.

00:03:30   And it's one of the harder drafts to do, yeah.

00:03:32   It is the hardest, because, you know, even if we go on the rumors, which we will,

00:03:37   there's always stuff in the software which is going to be a surprise.

00:03:42   I would say, I mean, maybe, you know, maybe I'm tempting fate here,

00:03:46   but I'm surprised about the lack of information or leaks that have come out leading up to this point.

00:03:55   You know, being so close.

00:03:57   That's okay.

00:03:57   Mark Gurman will have a story on, like, Thursday that will reveal everything and ruin many of our draft picks.

00:04:03   So, there's that to look forward to.

00:04:06   But we have to come up with a whole set of stuff for ourselves,

00:04:09   which we and Jason are working on over the next week.

00:04:12   You already created the thing.

00:04:13   So, a bunch of Upgradients have sent me in a note about something called eARC, Jason.

00:04:19   This is something new for the Apple TV.

00:04:21   So, with Apple TV and eARC, if you have all of the right gear,

00:04:26   so if you have HomePods and a TV that supports eARC,

00:04:30   you can now have your HomePods operate as the audio output for anything connected to your television.

00:04:37   So, if you had PlayStation and Xbox or any, like, maybe you had something audio related, you go into the TV,

00:04:44   and then it will be able to stream that out to your HomePods.

00:04:47   Now, this is only the original HomePod, not the HomePod mini, which is funny to me.

00:04:54   I have gotten this set up and I've been playing around with it.

00:05:00   I haven't really had a ton of experience with it yet because I only got it set up yesterday,

00:05:04   so I'll say more about it in the future.

00:05:07   I'm also going to be talking about -- because we don't have time for it in this episode.

00:05:09   We're going to be talking about the Apple TV and connected this week.

00:05:12   So, if you want to hear about my thoughts about the Apple TV and the remote,

00:05:15   I'll be talking about connected.

00:05:17   But this eARC thing is intriguing because it is a new feature for a product that no longer exists,

00:05:22   which is the HomePod.

00:05:23   -Well, and the argument and something that you've mentioned before is if you really like the idea

00:05:28   of using a pair of HomePods as your speakers for Apple TV,

00:05:32   the problem is if you have another device, you can't do this.

00:05:36   And now with eARC, you can do it.

00:05:38   You can route everything into the TV, and then the TV returns down the HDMI cable,

00:05:43   returns to the Apple TV, the audio signal, which then it sends out.

00:05:49   -It's kind of wild.

00:05:50   So, if I was using my PlayStation, I still use the Apple TV remote to turn the volume up or down,

00:05:55   but I don't get any indication on screen about the volume level

00:05:59   because they don't work together like that.

00:06:02   It's really intriguing.

00:06:03   The thing that also intrigues me about this is they label it as a beta feature.

00:06:08   So, look, if you wanted any kind of indication that Apple's not out of this game

00:06:14   of home theater stuff, this is it.

00:06:17   Like, I genuinely think that this is a feature which all but confirms

00:06:22   that they're working on something to replace the HomePod.

00:06:26   -I agree.

00:06:27   I feel like, look, it's possible that this is just a last vestige of work on the old HomePod,

00:06:36   assuming it was gonna be a hit.

00:06:38   But it feels to me more like this is yet another clue that Apple has a new home strategy

00:06:44   that has a bunch of different pieces,

00:06:45   and one of them has something to do with a home theater kind of thing,

00:06:49   whether it's a new big HomePod or revision to HomePod mini

00:06:55   or a soundbar that runs some version of tvOS.

00:06:59   Like, there are lots of options here, but the idea that you might have --

00:07:03   You know, my wild idea about an Apple TV soundbar,

00:07:07   like, when you add eARC to the Apple TV,

00:07:10   it's like you are almost completely there now, right?

00:07:14   Like, it's really interesting.

00:07:16   So, something's going on, I think.

00:07:18   And although it is possible that this is all just the vestiges of a strategy

00:07:22   that basically they've gone in a new direction now and killed the HomePod, I don't know.

00:07:27   I think it's more likely that there's something else going on in the background.

00:07:32   -We'd like to thank everybody that has enjoyed and sent us in comments

00:07:35   about the membership bonus special that we put out last Friday.

00:07:39   I also want to thank everyone who signed up for Upgrade Plus to get it.

00:07:42   If you haven't yet and you want to enjoy our RPG special,

00:07:46   if you go to getupgradeplus.com, you can sign up.

00:07:49   And not only will you get the RPG special with myself and Jason and Gray

00:07:53   and Tony Centolaro, our wonderful game master,

00:07:56   you'll also get access to our Upgrade Plus feed,

00:07:59   which includes longer episodes of Upgrade every single week with no ads.

00:08:02   This is a great deal.

00:08:04   Go to getupgradeplus.com, and thank you to everybody that has.

00:08:07   Yeah.

00:08:08   So, Apple released a press release last week about some new accessibility features

00:08:13   that they've added to various pieces of the OS and their support system and stuff.

00:08:18   I just want to go through some of these really quickly,

00:08:20   and then there's one that I want to touch on a little bit more.

00:08:22   So, the first is Sign Time, which is just a fantastic name,

00:08:27   which is AppleCare support via sign language

00:08:30   in a variety of different territories and languages.

00:08:32   Sign Time is just so good.

00:08:35   iPadOS is going to be supporting eye tracking via third-party devices.

00:08:41   There will be enhancements to VoiceOver to help describe what's happening in images.

00:08:45   So, you could use VoiceOver, and it can tell you, like, in this image,

00:08:48   this person's doing this.

00:08:49   Like, it can describe what people are doing.

00:08:52   There's support for new bi-directional hearing aids,

00:08:55   hearing aids that have microphones in them so people could take calls and stuff.

00:08:58   They're adding background sounds, like white noise type stuff to the OS.

00:09:03   By the way, these OS enhancements, these are coming, quote, "later in the year."

00:09:07   They're clearly iOS 15 things.

00:09:09   The big one, though, is AssistiveTouch for the Apple Watch.

00:09:12   So, in our show notes, there's a link to Apple's press release.

00:09:15   You have to go to watch this video.

00:09:17   It's amazing.

00:09:18   So, if you turn on this feature, you will be able to,

00:09:22   with a few different physical interactions with your hands,

00:09:28   to operate the UI.

00:09:29   So, the two main ones are clenching, so you clench your fist

00:09:32   or pinch your fingers together.

00:09:34   If you clench your fist twice, it will, like, enable this VoiceOver mode,

00:09:38   and then you can use pinching your fingers and clenching

00:09:41   to scroll through UI buttons and press them.

00:09:44   It's unbelievable.

00:09:47   -Yeah, it's really impressive.

00:09:49   It's like AssistiveTouch on the phone,

00:09:53   except it's using, you know, gestures, very broad gestures

00:10:01   to drive the Apple Watch.

00:10:03   It's a pretty wild demo, and it's like, "How does it do it?"

00:10:08   And I think the answer is it's got some very interesting,

00:10:10   clever training about the motions that the Apple Watch senses

00:10:16   that it's interpreting, but it's pretty remarkable.

00:10:20   For somebody who -- Basically, the idea here is,

00:10:23   if you're unable to manipulate the little touch screen

00:10:25   on the Apple Watch

00:10:26   because you can't make those movements or gestures,

00:10:29   you can now use these larger hand gestures,

00:10:33   essentially, to do the same thing.

00:10:35   But, again, this is one of those features that --

00:10:38   Like, this is one of the great things

00:10:39   about a lot of Apple's accessibility stuff.

00:10:41   We've spoken about this in the past.

00:10:43   Anybody can take advantage of the power

00:10:45   that these things unlock, you know?

00:10:47   So, and I think that's super cool,

00:10:49   because they make these things so powerful.

00:10:51   Like, anybody can use this,

00:10:52   and you can have it do wonderful things for you.

00:10:55   And there's also an on-screen pointer, as well,

00:10:57   which, using your wrist --

00:10:58   I just think it's incredibly clever

00:11:00   that they're able to use the sensors in the Apple Watch.

00:11:03   Just the idea of you moving your fingers,

00:11:07   being detectable by the Apple Watch -- so cool.

00:11:10   So they announced all of this to coincide

00:11:12   with Accessibility Awareness Day, which was last week.

00:11:15   It feels like, though, some of these features,

00:11:17   especially the Assistive Touch one,

00:11:20   could have been a big moment in the WWDC keynote.

00:11:23   And I expect that this is a symptom of a packed keynote,

00:11:27   so maybe they wanted to make sure

00:11:28   that these features really got noticed properly.

00:11:31   -I think there's probably some truth to that,

00:11:33   although I think whenever you're rolling out

00:11:35   all your operating systems,

00:11:36   the keynote's always gonna be packed.

00:11:38   I don't think it actually tells us much,

00:11:39   because obviously they can fill a keynote many times over,

00:11:44   and that's why there'll be a State of the Union,

00:11:45   and there'll be all sorts of tidbits that we don't even see,

00:11:49   but they drop in other sessions.

00:11:51   I think what Apple has learned --

00:11:52   and this is a new Apple thing,

00:11:55   relatively, from the last few years --

00:11:57   is that there are other venues that are good

00:12:01   to make certain PR announcements, and they get more pickup.

00:12:03   And this is a great example

00:12:05   where because of Accessibility Awareness Day,

00:12:07   Apple is able to pull these features forward out of iOS 15

00:12:12   and get them noticed on Accessibility Awareness Day.

00:12:16   So it allows Apple to say,

00:12:18   "Look at our great new accessibility features.

00:12:20   They get covered at a level that would probably not get covered

00:12:23   if it was just part of a developer keynote."

00:12:26   The other example I was thinking of is World Emoji Day,

00:12:29   where they use that.

00:12:32   In journalism, we often will call that a news peg.

00:12:35   The idea is you want an angle, and it can't just be like,

00:12:38   "Today, Apple just decided to show you

00:12:40   a feature from the future."

00:12:41   That's not that interesting.

00:12:42   But if they can say, "Oh, it's World Emoji Day,"

00:12:45   that gives us an excuse to do a press release

00:12:48   about all the emoji that are coming in the future to iOS.

00:12:53   And Accessibility Awareness Day gives them something to hang

00:12:56   a story about Apple's support for accessibility.

00:12:59   So I think that Apple likes doing this, and you're right.

00:13:01   They can afford to do it

00:13:03   because it's not as if the keynote isn't going to be packed.

00:13:05   And if they still want to mention it in the keynote,

00:13:07   they can now mention it and have it be kind of an aside,

00:13:10   which is, plus we've got all these amazing

00:13:11   accessibility features that we announced two weeks ago.

00:13:13   So I don't think it's evidence of anything

00:13:16   other than the fact that, sure,

00:13:17   the WWDC keynote will be packed as usual.

00:13:21   But I like it. I actually really like the idea

00:13:23   that Apple doesn't feel like they need to hold

00:13:25   all of their future announcements

00:13:27   until the one moment at one time

00:13:29   when they roll out a developer beta.

00:13:33   -If you want to know more about these kinds of features,

00:13:36   you should check out Parallel here on Relay FM.

00:13:38   So it's hosted by Shadi Brisbane.

00:13:40   Shadi's going to do a better job of talking about

00:13:42   all of this stuff than we will.

00:13:43   So you can go check it out.

00:13:44   Let's set relay.fm/parallel.

00:13:46   -Yep. -Jason, you have some upstream

00:13:49   news that you'd like to share with your gradients.

00:13:51   -I do. I do. I want to give you the upstream update.

00:13:55   A couple of stories this week that I thought

00:13:58   were interesting enough for us to mention,

00:13:59   even though we've got such a packed show.

00:14:01   One of them is there was a "New York Times" story

00:14:03   about Netflix doing this trilogy of films called "Fear Street."

00:14:10   And I just thought it was really funny

00:14:12   because they're selling it as if it's a new idea,

00:14:15   which is they made three movies,

00:14:18   and they're going to release one of them every week

00:14:20   for three Fridays in a row.

00:14:22   It's like binge-watching, but for movies.

00:14:26   And I thought to myself, "How is this any different

00:14:29   from anything else that Netflix does?"

00:14:32   Other than the fact that it's a weekly release

00:14:33   instead of just dropping them all at once,

00:14:35   but, like, at what point is movies just TV?

00:14:38   Like, what makes these movies?

00:14:40   What makes them movies?

00:14:42   It seems to me like three episodes

00:14:44   of a three-episode TV series.

00:14:46   They're made, I would imagine,

00:14:49   the same way that TV shows are made.

00:14:52   I just thought it was really funny that Netflix is like,

00:14:54   "Oh, get this, everybody.

00:14:56   We're going to release this thing weekly."

00:14:59   And everybody's like, "Uh, yeah, that's what TV has done forever

00:15:02   until you came along, Netflix."

00:15:04   -Why not, like, six one-hour --

00:15:06   Like, why three movies?

00:15:07   -Well, apparently, it's set in three different settings.

00:15:10   And so they're interconnected,

00:15:12   but they're set in three different settings,

00:15:13   which I would say, great, that's three episodes.

00:15:16   We call those episodes of a TV show.

00:15:19   But I just -- I point this out --

00:15:22   I mean, I can see the arguments either way.

00:15:23   It's fine.

00:15:24   I just think it's really funny

00:15:26   because the definitions of movies and TV

00:15:29   have become so blurred because of streaming

00:15:31   and because of the way things get made

00:15:33   and the way things get released.

00:15:34   And it just tickled me, the idea that Netflix is sort of like,

00:15:38   "Oh, we've invented something brand-new.

00:15:40   It's weekly releases of new content on our platform."

00:15:44   Like, that's not new at all.

00:15:49   But they've decided that this is a movie, which it's not, right?

00:15:51   It's -- Or is it -- I don't know.

00:15:55   I think it's very funny that this is just --

00:15:57   It's literally -- We're releasing three

00:15:59   two-hour things on a weekly basis.

00:16:02   And it's kind of a stunt, but also, at the same time,

00:16:05   like, it's entirely based on marketing.

00:16:07   Like, they could do this.

00:16:08   They could have released it all on a binge.

00:16:09   They could have released it all across,

00:16:11   you know, six episodes and called it episodes.

00:16:13   They just decided to market it as three movies.

00:16:15   And it's from a long series of books,

00:16:18   so they could do this more.

00:16:20   I guess they could order more episodes of whatever this is.

00:16:22   I'm also curious about how it looks

00:16:23   in the Netflix interface, right?

00:16:26   Have they created a new, like, Fear Street movie series index?

00:16:32   It's like, "Oh, it isn't a TV series.

00:16:33   It's a movie series."

00:16:35   Look at movie one, movie two, and movie three of,

00:16:39   I don't know, release one?

00:16:42   Can we rename seasons and episodes

00:16:43   to sound more movie-like?

00:16:47   Ah, okay, so that's that one.

00:16:50   Netflix, it's gonna Netflix.

00:16:53   There's a story that made me laugh

00:16:56   that I wanted to mention,

00:16:57   which we've been talking here about the plus,

00:16:59   the rise of the plus, so many plus services.

00:17:02   A bunch of streaming services offer ad tiers,

00:17:05   where you pay less and you get ads.

00:17:09   So Paramount Plus does this. Peacock does this.

00:17:12   A lot of the especially traditional

00:17:15   entertainment companies that have,

00:17:17   I think what we were talking about with Peacock Plus

00:17:19   was they've got ad salespeople, right?

00:17:23   And like, well, what do the ad salespeople have to do?

00:17:26   And they're like, "No, no, no, it's okay.

00:17:28   We're gonna have an ad version of our service,

00:17:31   and we'll make money. We'll have more viewers.

00:17:33   They'll pay us a little bit less, but we'll make money

00:17:35   because we'll sell ads and show them the ads."

00:17:39   But WarnerMedia hadn't done that, and HBO famously,

00:17:43   you know, is an ad-free kind of service.

00:17:45   But now they've announced ad-supported tier of HBO Max,

00:17:50   which I don't know what we call that.

00:17:54   Is there, you have a name?

00:17:55   - We were joking around about like HBO Max minus,

00:18:01   plus HBO Max minuscule, Max small, right?

00:18:08   - HBO min.

00:18:11   - Min Max.

00:18:13   - There you go.

00:18:14   - Anyway, for $10 a month, which is cheaper

00:18:17   than the $15 a month for no ads,

00:18:19   you will be able to get a version with ads.

00:18:21   And it's more complicated than that

00:18:23   'cause like HBO shows don't have ad breaks in them,

00:18:25   so how will they do it?

00:18:26   And the answer seems to be that you'll get the HBO shows

00:18:29   with no ads.

00:18:29   Maybe there'll be a pre-roll ad or a post-roll ad

00:18:31   or something like that,

00:18:32   but like they're not gonna be ad breaks in HBO shows.

00:18:34   But all their other stuff that they do,

00:18:36   they're gonna be able to start sticking ads in there.

00:18:39   And you know, the load of streaming ads is not as great

00:18:42   as the load of ads on broadcast TV or anything like that.

00:18:45   And in fact, the head of ad sales,

00:18:47   because of course the head of ad sales is quoted here,

00:18:50   says it will have the lightest ad load in the industry.

00:18:53   So it's not a lot of ads,

00:18:55   but they are going to basically cut you a deal

00:18:57   where if you spend $5 a month less,

00:19:00   you will get access to HBO Max, but you will see some ads.

00:19:03   So HBO Max minus coming soon.

00:19:10   And then one more item,

00:19:15   which is what we predicted sort of has come true.

00:19:19   MGM looks like maybe finally getting snapped up

00:19:24   by a tech giant, reports that Amazon may buy MGM.

00:19:29   And MGM, you know, what it has, it's a studio,

00:19:34   it's got some things that it owns.

00:19:36   The classic MGM films all got sold off a long time ago,

00:19:39   but it does have a film library.

00:19:41   It has James Bond, although that's even complicated

00:19:44   because the Eon Productions actually controls James Bond.

00:19:49   So you can buy MGM and release James Bond movies,

00:19:52   but you still need the, basically the Broccoli family

00:19:55   has to work with you and approve everything that you do.

00:19:59   But so there's, this story is interesting background wise

00:20:03   because MGM has been trying apparently to sell itself

00:20:06   for a long time to a tech giant.

00:20:08   And the feedback has been, they're asking too much,

00:20:11   but maybe Jeff Bezos is now intrigued.

00:20:13   Maybe Jeff Bezos just wants to own James Bond.

00:20:16   I don't know, but we had speculated

00:20:19   that maybe this would be something that Apple could snap up.

00:20:21   And apparently Apple and Amazon and other companies

00:20:24   have sniffed around MGM,

00:20:26   but they've all found the price to just be

00:20:28   more than it's worth because it's not that,

00:20:31   it's not that great.

00:20:33   It's something, but it's not that great.

00:20:35   - Yeah, really what you want is James Bond, right?

00:20:38   Like that's probably what anybody would buy MGM for.

00:20:41   - There's the library of stuff.

00:20:43   You get some content

00:20:45   and there's some franchise possibilities in there,

00:20:47   but James Bond is the big asset for them,

00:20:51   even though it's not entirely theirs,

00:20:52   that's the big asset.

00:20:54   I do wonder though, following the rule,

00:20:56   which is who benefits by having a story leak like this.

00:21:00   I do wonder if this is once again,

00:21:02   somebody at MGM trying to stoke the flames and be like,

00:21:05   look, MGM might actually get bought by somebody

00:21:08   in hopes of either making the deal go along

00:21:12   or making the deal close faster

00:21:13   or making somebody else come to the table and say,

00:21:16   no, no, I wanna buy MGM.

00:21:18   I don't know, but the story seems to be,

00:21:20   the implication is that it's progressed a little bit further

00:21:22   and that Amazon is in serious talks to buy MGM.

00:21:26   But the truth is the Amazon is so huge

00:21:29   and Joe Bezos has so much money on his own

00:21:31   that really they can buy whatever they want.

00:21:35   The question is, is it worth it to them?

00:21:38   And I do sometimes wonder if in the end,

00:21:40   if the world's richest man says,

00:21:42   yeah, but I want James Bond.

00:21:43   They're like, all right, okay, Jeff wants James Bond.

00:21:47   Jeff knows what a good TV show is and he wants James Bond.

00:21:51   - He knows what a good spy movie is too.

00:21:53   - I also wonder just as a sidebar,

00:21:55   because of Eon Productions,

00:21:58   which is the family owned company that is,

00:22:00   Albert Broccoli was one of the original producers

00:22:02   of the Bond movies and MGM does the releasing

00:22:04   and it's kind of this shared thing.

00:22:06   And one of the stories that I read pointed out that,

00:22:10   like one of the challenges with this

00:22:11   is that they control it and they can say yes or no.

00:22:14   And they have been,

00:22:15   they are very conservative in what they do.

00:22:17   And so they have been pretty focused on,

00:22:20   there's just a James Bond movie every three or four years

00:22:22   and they don't do spin-offs

00:22:23   and there's no TV show or anything like that.

00:22:26   And I wonder if that's one of the deals here.

00:22:29   And if one of the delays might be

00:22:31   that anybody who buys MGM

00:22:32   has to go talk to Eon Productions and say,

00:22:35   look, what are you gonna let us do?

00:22:37   Or can we buy you out?

00:22:39   Right?

00:22:40   Is the family willing to sell James Bond after all of this?

00:22:43   And if not that, what does our partnership look like?

00:22:46   Does Amazon go to them and say,

00:22:47   did you see what we did with the Jack Ryan show?

00:22:49   Now imagine what we could do with James Bond.

00:22:51   We could have movies and we could have a TV show spinoff.

00:22:53   We could have a double,

00:22:54   the English agents office double O numbers TV show

00:22:58   and we could do all this stuff.

00:23:00   And it would be like a huge franchise

00:23:02   and would you be amenable?

00:23:03   And if they say, well, no,

00:23:05   we just want one theatrical release every three years.

00:23:08   It's like, oh, well then MGM is less intriguing to us.

00:23:12   So I wonder about all of those kinds of conversations.

00:23:14   I love the idea that you can buy this whole company,

00:23:17   but in the end, there's this other little small company

00:23:19   that's basically family run that can say yes or no

00:23:21   to everything you want to do.

00:23:22   That's hilarious.

00:23:24   So we'll see.

00:23:25   But anyway, there's a little bit of upstream

00:23:27   and that was it.

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00:25:09   Jason Snell, I am talking to you right now

00:25:12   from a yellow iMac.

00:25:14   - What?

00:25:15   - Yep.

00:25:15   So, kind of late last week, I took delivery

00:25:20   of my very first pre-release Apple review hardware.

00:25:24   So, last Thursday, I had an iMac arrive.

00:25:28   - Yeah.

00:25:29   - This was kind of funny because it was originally

00:25:31   supposed to arrive on Wednesday,

00:25:33   but it got delayed in shipping,

00:25:34   and I was so nervous because if it arrived on Friday,

00:25:37   it wasn't pre-release hardware anymore,

00:25:39   it was just the day everybody else had it.

00:25:42   And it was like, I was like, please let it arrive Thursday,

00:25:45   because then I'll actually get what I wanted from it.

00:25:47   'Cause look, just as a quick sidebar,

00:25:49   this just was an important thing to me.

00:25:51   You know, like I've been doing this stuff

00:25:52   for 10 or 11 years now,

00:25:55   and this was always something that I wanted, right?

00:25:57   Like I've had some review hardware in the past,

00:25:59   but it's been of products that were already available,

00:26:01   and this was like, it was 24 hours,

00:26:04   but it was 24 hours where I had this iMac

00:26:06   and nobody else had it, right?

00:26:07   Or like just such a small group of people.

00:26:09   So, it was really cool,

00:26:11   and I was very thankful to get that.

00:26:13   But now let me talk about my experiences of it,

00:26:15   'cause I've been using this iMac

00:26:16   for the best part of half a week now.

00:26:20   And I've been using it quite extensively, actually.

00:26:23   So I have the yellow one.

00:26:24   Apple offered me the choice,

00:26:27   and I said I would like either the orange one

00:26:29   or the yellow one, and I got the yellow one.

00:26:30   And I was actually in the end happy to have the yellow one,

00:26:33   because then I had a different one to you, right?

00:26:36   'Cause you had the orange one, so I have a different one.

00:26:39   And I wanted to try something different.

00:26:41   One of the reasons I asked for yellow

00:26:44   is 'cause I don't think it's one

00:26:45   that I necessarily would have bought myself,

00:26:47   but I wanted to see something different.

00:26:51   And like I think most of these iMacs,

00:26:56   what you see in person is so different looking

00:26:58   to what you see on the website,

00:27:00   'cause these things are hard to photograph, right?

00:27:03   Like this yellow one, it's, and again,

00:27:05   like I've been sharing pictures of mine,

00:27:08   and I feel like I can't get the color in my images

00:27:12   to look how they look in real life.

00:27:14   Did you find that with the images

00:27:15   that you were taking of your orange model?

00:27:18   - It's really hard.

00:27:19   Color, getting color accurate is hard.

00:27:24   And then depending on the setting and the context,

00:27:27   there's a picture I posted, I think on Twitter,

00:27:29   that was literally the orange iMac with an orange iPad case

00:27:33   and a San Francisco Giants baseball cap.

00:27:36   And I was really, and my wall, which is orange,

00:27:38   and I was really just trying to get at,

00:27:40   look at all the different shades of orange, right?

00:27:42   Just to say, it's kind of hard to get it across.

00:27:46   And I think you're right, like Apple has all of its

00:27:51   sort of photography on this very light gray.

00:27:54   It's very much like the border of the iMac screen.

00:27:57   And are they trying to make it look accurate

00:28:00   or are they trying to make it look good?

00:28:02   I don't know, it's very hard to get across

00:28:03   what they actually look like.

00:28:04   And honestly, as lighting changes,

00:28:06   this is an anodized aluminum and it's got a texture.

00:28:11   And so the reflection and the texture

00:28:14   change in different light.

00:28:16   So it's very hard to get across what it looks like

00:28:21   because it looks different in different contexts.

00:28:23   And then you add in different lighting and it's, yeah,

00:28:26   you kind of need to see it in person.

00:28:28   And I hate to say this 'cause it's not practical,

00:28:30   but I think you kind of need to see it

00:28:32   where you're gonna have it,

00:28:34   which means you kind of need to take one home.

00:28:35   - Yeah, that's hot.

00:28:36   - And be willing to take it back, right?

00:28:40   Which is not something that you can do,

00:28:41   but there's truth in that.

00:28:43   Like, depending on what it looks like in the store,

00:28:46   it might not look the same in your house.

00:28:48   - At least I have been hearing from people

00:28:50   and seeing pictures too that Apple stores

00:28:52   seem to have them all.

00:28:54   Like, even though you can't buy all the colors

00:28:56   or maybe whatever, they actually do have them.

00:28:59   So, 'cause I think there's a few colors

00:29:00   you can only get online, if I remember rightly.

00:29:03   Yeah, I think Steven reported on that.

00:29:05   But they have all the colors at the stores.

00:29:07   'Cause I've been having people message me

00:29:10   and say, "Oh, look, I wasn't sure about the yellow one.

00:29:12   "I saw it in person."

00:29:13   Or like, "Oh, actually I want the green one."

00:29:15   That kind of thing.

00:29:16   And so this yellow model, it's like a combination

00:29:18   of like a pastel kind of yellow on the front

00:29:21   and like a kind of like Easter kind of yellow on the front.

00:29:24   And then almost gold, right?

00:29:26   Like the foot and the back of it are gold.

00:29:29   But again, like in the images that I take,

00:29:32   the gold seems way more gold.

00:29:34   Like I can't seem to get it.

00:29:36   Like it looks like it's like a real like gold, gold,

00:29:39   but it's way more on the yellow end.

00:29:42   What it looks like to me, honestly,

00:29:44   is anodized yellow aluminum.

00:29:47   But in the images that I take,

00:29:48   it looks like they've tried to make a gold version

00:29:50   and it isn't as so strong as that color.

00:29:53   The unboxing experience is so good for this product.

00:29:59   They did such a great job with the packaging

00:30:01   that even like the handle is like a woven material.

00:30:06   - Yeah, it's fabric handle that's in the color of the iMac.

00:30:10   - Which again, it's like,

00:30:11   yeah, how hard do they make it for themselves, right?

00:30:14   We're managing these products that now have like

00:30:17   not only seven different boxes,

00:30:18   seven different handle colors for all the boxes.

00:30:21   And also you get colored stickers.

00:30:25   I have colored stickers in two tones.

00:30:26   There's one which is more yellow

00:30:28   and one which is gold, which is fun

00:30:29   'cause they do the color stickers now.

00:30:31   But the actual opening of the whole thing is really nice.

00:30:34   Like you lay the box down,

00:30:35   you open it up, you pull the sides down

00:30:37   and it all kind of presents itself.

00:30:39   And you've got like a big sticker on the screen

00:30:42   and it says, hello again, in the color of the computer.

00:30:46   I don't know.

00:30:46   You spend this kind of money on a product like this,

00:30:49   you want it to be special.

00:30:50   And I feel like, Apple is now I think finding its way

00:30:55   in making special unboxing experiences that are responsible

00:31:03   from a environmental perspective.

00:31:06   - Yeah, it's all cardboard.

00:31:10   And they also, they do things like they have the pull tabs

00:31:12   and stuff now that make it a lot easier to get in and out.

00:31:15   It is, what struck me about it that's funny is first off,

00:31:17   the iMac is shipped upside down.

00:31:19   - Yeah, that took me a minute.

00:31:20   It took me a minute to work out how to open the box.

00:31:23   Oh, you gotta kind of lay it down

00:31:24   and yeah, it's upside down, which is funny.

00:31:27   - Right, and it's also a rectangular box now.

00:31:31   It's no longer kind of angled

00:31:32   where you can't put it anywhere.

00:31:33   The old iMac boxes were all like trapezoid or something,

00:31:37   like thicker at the bottom than at the top.

00:31:39   And it's not like, no.

00:31:41   So it's, and it's really nice packaging.

00:31:44   It's very easy to get the iMac out too.

00:31:47   'Cause obviously when you open up that box,

00:31:49   that's what you wanna do is get your iMac out

00:31:50   and they did a good job for sure.

00:31:52   - The peripherals, I just love the look of them all.

00:31:57   Like the colors and shapes are nice.

00:31:59   Like I like the shapes of everything

00:32:01   and like everything's nice and round and stuff.

00:32:04   The keyboard, okay, so I love the look at the keyboard.

00:32:09   It's too low to the desk, like the profile.

00:32:11   If it's too low for me now,

00:32:13   you know, I'm used to much chunkier keyboards

00:32:15   with bigger typing angles and stuff now.

00:32:17   So using a magic keyboard is so strange feeling.

00:32:22   Touch ID is great.

00:32:24   I've noticed as well,

00:32:25   like it's a little slower than touch ID on other devices,

00:32:27   which I assume is something to do

00:32:29   with needing to send that information wirelessly.

00:32:32   I'm leaving the keyboard on my desk right now.

00:32:36   Like even though I'm using a keyboard,

00:32:38   one of my fancy keyboards,

00:32:41   I have the magic keyboard behind it

00:32:44   so I can get the touch ID.

00:32:45   And I had a friend recommend to me

00:32:47   to mount the keyboard underneath my desk

00:32:50   so I can just reach under and authenticate.

00:32:53   When I have one of my own, I'm going to do this.

00:32:57   It's such a silly little idea, but makes sense.

00:32:59   'Cause all I have this on my desk for right now

00:33:02   is just to get to the touch ID button.

00:33:04   - So somebody on Etsy is going to make

00:33:07   like a magic keyboard touch ID cover thing

00:33:10   that you just snap on and it locks out all the other keys.

00:33:13   - That's a good idea too.

00:33:14   - But it has just the one key and then you can,

00:33:16   and then you mount it or put stuff on it.

00:33:18   And it's just for that one, yeah.

00:33:21   - So the power brick too is big.

00:33:25   It's bigger than I thought, right?

00:33:26   The actual power brick itself.

00:33:28   But having ethernet there is great

00:33:29   because I use ethernet in this machine.

00:33:31   I just plug it in.

00:33:31   It's one less cable that needs to be long, right?

00:33:34   Like everything's down on the ground now.

00:33:36   I like that.

00:33:37   Because as well, something that was happening for me

00:33:39   was my ethernet cable is shorter than the cable

00:33:43   that Apple ships with the power brick.

00:33:45   So I had to like suspend my Eero

00:33:48   on top of some sound dampening foam

00:33:49   because if I would put my desk into standing mode,

00:33:51   my Eero was just like hanging there.

00:33:54   So now I don't need to do that

00:33:55   'cause it just plugs straight into the one on the ground,

00:33:57   which is much nicer.

00:33:59   - Yeah.

00:34:00   - The iMac foot, you know, we knew this to stand.

00:34:03   Like it's not high enough for me.

00:34:05   It has to be raised.

00:34:06   It's too low down to the desk.

00:34:07   - Like are you telling me that all of Apple's

00:34:12   ergonomic consultants and calculations

00:34:14   that calculated that this is exactly the right height

00:34:17   for the iMac did not work for you?

00:34:19   - It did not work for me.

00:34:20   I'm sure, look, I believe that they did

00:34:23   what Nevpreet told us, right?

00:34:24   That they looked at a bunch of data

00:34:26   and they picked the size that they think is best.

00:34:28   Why would you not do that, right?

00:34:30   - But it's like the average size, right?

00:34:31   - And I'm not an average size guy.

00:34:33   - Well, I was gonna say people who are taller or shorter

00:34:37   in whatever length, you know,

00:34:39   maybe it's from the waist up when you're sitting down

00:34:42   and it's different when you're standing,

00:34:43   but like there's gonna be a lot of people

00:34:44   who don't fit in that area,

00:34:45   which is why there should be an adjustable stand

00:34:47   because you get this beautiful thing

00:34:49   that's all color matched.

00:34:50   And then you've got it sitting on top of a Mac mini.

00:34:53   It's sort of, I mean, come on.

00:34:55   - Yeah, mine is sitting on top of my Mac mini

00:34:57   that was on my desk right now.

00:34:59   And I've bought this stand as a company called Grovemade

00:35:01   who make nice but inexpensive products.

00:35:04   And I bought this stand 'cause I like the look of it

00:35:07   and it matches my desk.

00:35:09   And I figured that this stand,

00:35:11   I'm gonna keep around for whatever product comes next.

00:35:15   So I was thinking about like if for my next iMac

00:35:18   to go with VESA, but for me,

00:35:23   I feel like I got an arm.

00:35:24   Put an arm on it.

00:35:25   - Maybe, potentially, but I'm gonna have this stand anyway.

00:35:28   So I have this stand coming.

00:35:29   Also though, I do hope, and we said this before,

00:35:33   that on a higher end iMac,

00:35:37   Apple creates at least an option

00:35:39   for a high adjustable stand like the XDR.

00:35:42   Even if I have to pay extra for it,

00:35:45   as long as it's not $1,000,

00:35:48   I would pay extra for it though.

00:35:49   You know, like if they said like, this is it,

00:35:51   but you can get the Pro stand

00:35:52   and it's like 400 bucks more,

00:35:54   I would think about it, right?

00:35:56   Depending on how much I'm spending on the machine,

00:35:58   I would think about it.

00:35:59   Because I really do want that adjustability

00:36:02   just in a way that this machine doesn't provide.

00:36:04   Similarly, this machine doesn't have enough ports for me.

00:36:09   You know, like the four USB shaped ports,

00:36:11   two Thunderbolt, it's just not enough.

00:36:13   Like what I really need is two regular USB ports as well.

00:36:17   Because I just have stuff that isn't,

00:36:20   like so for example, like I use a Logitech mouse

00:36:22   and I need a little unifying receiver

00:36:24   and they only do those in USB-A.

00:36:26   - The iMac Pro has seven ports on the back.

00:36:29   And I just looked, I have five of them plugged.

00:36:33   So the four on the higher end iMac

00:36:36   would not be enough for me.

00:36:38   What we know about the M1, right?

00:36:42   Is that if you look at the Mac mini,

00:36:44   it's got two Thunderbolt and then two USB-A.

00:36:46   And then we look at this one

00:36:47   and it's got two Thunderbolt and two USB-C.

00:36:50   Clearly the M1 can't do more than that in terms of ports.

00:36:54   So what I wonder is if they do the larger iMac

00:36:57   at some point here, who knows,

00:36:59   Mark Gurman said they stopped for a while.

00:37:00   I don't know what that means.

00:37:01   But if they do a larger iMac,

00:37:03   which is what I would really like to see

00:37:04   and be very interested in buying,

00:37:06   will they then go back to doing what they did?

00:37:10   Especially if we're thinking it's more for,

00:37:11   you know, it's more expensive and it's bigger

00:37:13   and it's more for pro level users

00:37:14   and it's using a different chip,

00:37:17   would they go back to something like what the iMac Pro has,

00:37:19   which is the multiple Thunderbolt and USB-C

00:37:23   and USB-A ports to have a bunch of ports back there?

00:37:26   I don't know what they feel about ports.

00:37:29   And yeah, you can do hubs and stuff, but it's not as good.

00:37:32   It's not as nice if you have to start buying hubs

00:37:34   and hubs are expensive and complicated

00:37:36   and it gets weird really fast.

00:37:39   - Yeah, like I have a seven port USB hub,

00:37:43   which I now have three things plugged into.

00:37:46   You know, and I'm mostly fine with that,

00:37:49   but some stuff just doesn't work as well

00:37:52   when it's plugged into a hub.

00:37:54   And those things I also can't plug into the machine

00:37:57   because the USB-A thing is kind of stuck, right?

00:38:01   Like my hope is that for more professional machines,

00:38:06   they like higher end machines down the line,

00:38:12   they find a way to put more ports on them.

00:38:14   The rumors of the MacBook Pro, you know, getting the HDMI

00:38:17   and the SD card slot do actually fill me with some confidence

00:38:20   because they do feel like for that machine specifically,

00:38:24   that's the best stuff to plug on it.

00:38:26   Like I don't really mind so much about US,

00:38:28   regular USB on the laptops,

00:38:31   because you know, you're probably gonna use a dock

00:38:35   or a hub for those things anyway,

00:38:38   but it feels like they're adding more stuff on.

00:38:40   I would hope to see them continue to do that.

00:38:43   I personally love how thin this iMac is.

00:38:48   It feels like a complete flex from Apple

00:38:50   to make it this thin, right?

00:38:51   It's just like, we're gonna make a thin computer,

00:38:53   that's what we wanna do.

00:38:54   But like, it surprises me,

00:38:56   like when you turn on this machine,

00:38:58   like the first time I turned it on,

00:38:59   like you reach around to the back to press the button,

00:39:02   you know, you put your thumb on the front

00:39:03   and your finger on the back,

00:39:04   I kind of misjudged it based on my iMac Pro.

00:39:08   And it's like, oh, wait, hang on a minute.

00:39:10   Like, it feels like you're kind of just pinching

00:39:12   your fingers together to turn the thing on.

00:39:14   Like it really is very impressive,

00:39:17   just from a technical standpoint,

00:39:19   but adds just this thing is just so beautiful.

00:39:22   Like how thin it is, it's just so incredible to me.

00:39:25   And I, for me, like the thinness

00:39:30   adds to the overall specialness of the design.

00:39:33   And I have more to say on the design in a bit,

00:39:34   but personally, I think they made the right decision

00:39:37   with making this whole thing just so thin

00:39:40   and modern looking.

00:39:41   I love it the way it is.

00:39:42   - Yeah, I agree.

00:39:43   I am not a fan of the school of thought that's like,

00:39:46   well, it's just an iMac,

00:39:47   you should make it as thick as possible.

00:39:49   It's like, well, no, it is in a bunch of spaces

00:39:53   and you want it to look pretty.

00:39:55   It looks much nicer flat than it did

00:39:57   when it kind of had the thickening at the back edge

00:40:00   and sort of trying to fake it at the corners.

00:40:02   And then you're right, like for turning it on or tilting it,

00:40:06   anytime you're reaching out and moving it around,

00:40:08   I imagine this will be true if you put it on an arm as well.

00:40:11   It is, first off, your hands are,

00:40:13   instead of on the sort of slope of the current iMac design

00:40:17   that we have with the iMac Pro,

00:40:19   it's just, it's very easily grabbable.

00:40:22   It's super light 'cause it's less than 10 pounds.

00:40:24   Moving it around is really easy.

00:40:26   Like carrying it around to different locations in your house

00:40:30   is also really easy.

00:40:31   Like I think it's the right thing to do

00:40:33   and it's the right kind of shape.

00:40:37   I just, I don't, I appreciate the fact

00:40:41   that it could be any size

00:40:42   and they could just make it thicker and heavier and bigger.

00:40:45   Like heck, they could just make it the size

00:40:46   of the original iMac if they really wanted to.

00:40:48   Just have it be enormous and weigh 40 pounds.

00:40:51   But I think in general, having it be thin and light

00:40:54   and having that consistent, the flat back

00:40:56   that also looks really good, I do think it matters.

00:40:59   If you're somebody who puts it at a desk

00:41:01   and never adjusts it and never sees the back

00:41:04   because it's facing against a cube wall or something,

00:41:06   well, yeah, you're not really taking advantage

00:41:08   of what this thing is,

00:41:09   but you're not who this design is for.

00:41:11   This design is for people seeing it from the back

00:41:14   and people seeing it from the side

00:41:15   and it being in environments.

00:41:17   That's why the colorful stuff is on the backside too.

00:41:20   That's the whole idea here.

00:41:21   So I think it's, I like that they did this.

00:41:26   I think that this is what the iMac should be.

00:41:28   This is like the ideal.

00:41:29   They're trying to get closer to the,

00:41:31   that little floating monitor that was on top

00:41:33   of the G4 iMac back in the day

00:41:35   that had the giant heavy computer beneath it.

00:41:38   Like the ideal of the iMac is that the computer

00:41:41   starts to disappear.

00:41:42   And I think that this one gets closer to that ideal

00:41:47   in a lot of delightful ways.

00:41:48   - 24 inch screen, I think is fine for me.

00:41:53   I would say that going from 21 to 24,

00:41:56   that's a big difference.

00:41:57   And I think that 24 is fine.

00:42:01   I set the resolution to give me more space

00:42:03   and that gave me kind of just enough real estate

00:42:05   to work with from what I'm used to on say 27 inch monitors

00:42:09   or whatever.

00:42:11   One thing that I immediately noticed,

00:42:13   which I didn't think I would notice but did,

00:42:16   is just how much nicer the screen is on this

00:42:19   than any third party monitor that I have.

00:42:22   - Yep.

00:42:23   - I've been used to recently using third party monitors

00:42:25   more than using my iMac.

00:42:27   And I have a 27 inch Dell that was on this desk

00:42:32   and it was a 4K display.

00:42:34   And I was like, oh, this is just as good

00:42:36   as my iMac screen or whatever, it was fine.

00:42:39   Big difference.

00:42:40   It just looks so much better in every possible way.

00:42:43   I don't know exactly what it is that Apple does

00:42:46   to make their monitors look so good, but they do something.

00:42:49   I know it's like a lot of little things, I'm sure,

00:42:51   but this just is so much nicer,

00:42:53   it's so much crisper as a display.

00:42:56   Like I'd be sad to go back now on this desk from it.

00:43:00   - I think they don't, I mentioned this in my review,

00:43:03   I think that we don't give enough credit to Apple

00:43:05   for its displays because they advance it so much

00:43:09   that you end up sort of just taking it for granted.

00:43:12   Like they've been pushing these iMac displays forward

00:43:14   for the last, what, six years,

00:43:16   since they first came out with a retina iMac.

00:43:18   And they added the wider color gamut

00:43:21   and presumably at some point here,

00:43:23   there's gonna be mini LED in these things

00:43:26   and they'll be even more impressive.

00:43:28   But like they're really good displays.

00:43:29   This is the root of why people complain

00:43:32   that there isn't a non expensive 6K Apple external display.

00:43:37   It's like the iMac display is just better

00:43:40   than any of those third-party displays that are out there.

00:43:43   And you have to have an iMac to get it basically,

00:43:47   or buy the Pro Display XDR, which is ridiculous.

00:43:49   So those are your choices right now

00:43:51   because the third-party displays just aren't as good.

00:43:53   Apple is really good at this.

00:43:55   And that's why it's a little frustrating

00:43:57   if you're somebody who wants a Mac Pro or a Mac Mini

00:44:01   or just an external display for your laptop,

00:44:03   that the third-party choices there aren't great

00:44:05   and Apple is not letting you just buy

00:44:07   essentially an iMac screen and make it your display.

00:44:11   Because like the iMac, imagine a version of that

00:44:14   that was maybe, you know, doesn't have the chin

00:44:16   and it's just a display.

00:44:18   That would be really good.

00:44:20   That would be a really good display.

00:44:21   A lot of people would buy it,

00:44:22   but Apple doesn't wanna make it for some reason.

00:44:24   Not yet, anyway.

00:44:27   So going back to the color,

00:44:29   I really like and I very much enjoy,

00:44:33   it puts a smile on my face to have this hint of color

00:44:36   in my peripheral vision from the chin, from the foot,

00:44:40   just while I'm looking at the Mac.

00:44:41   And also the, again, like those,

00:44:44   I understand what Apple's saying now

00:44:46   about the edges not being white.

00:44:48   It's like white with a mix of light gray.

00:44:53   It's almost as if there was something dark behind it

00:44:56   and the plastic was semi-translucent.

00:44:59   - It's a light gray.

00:45:01   If you hold a piece of paper next to it,

00:45:02   you're like, oh yeah, it's not white.

00:45:04   It's light gray.

00:45:05   But it is very light, light gray, but it's a neutral color.

00:45:10   I mean, my experience in using it,

00:45:12   which we talked about last week,

00:45:14   was that it's almost like a gradient

00:45:15   where there's the bright pop from the foot

00:45:18   and then there's the lighter color on the chin.

00:45:21   And then there's the gray border and then there's the screen.

00:45:24   And I think that, like, as I use it,

00:45:26   I was like, oh, I get why they did this.

00:45:28   Like, you can really focus on the screen

00:45:29   and the rest of it just kind of drops away.

00:45:31   And yet in your peripheral vision,

00:45:33   you still got kind of the color popping there.

00:45:35   And if you lean back a little bit

00:45:37   and then you're looking at your iMac,

00:45:38   you're like, oh, yellow, right?

00:45:39   Or orange.

00:45:41   But you're not like trying to focus on the screen.

00:45:43   And like, look, this yellow is getting in my vision.

00:45:46   I can't see the screen.

00:45:46   I feel like it's a good balance

00:45:48   where it's not overwhelming you.

00:45:50   Like, I think people were worried about.

00:45:52   - And I use my Mac in dark mode

00:45:54   and I don't feel like it's out of place.

00:45:56   Because dark mode on the Mac,

00:45:58   I mean, there's still a lot of color going on.

00:45:59   There's still a lot of brightness going on.

00:46:01   Maybe if you, you know, really were aggressive with it,

00:46:04   but like right now I'm looking at a Google Docs window

00:46:06   and it's white, you know?

00:46:07   So I feel like there's some differences

00:46:10   with dark modes on the Mac than on iOS devices

00:46:12   and stuff like that.

00:46:13   - Yeah.

00:46:14   - But I feel like the design, the color of this Mac,

00:46:17   it sparks joy for me.

00:46:20   Like, and I can't remember the last time

00:46:23   that hardware gave me that kind of joyous feeling,

00:46:25   like it's playfulness.

00:46:28   And Apple designs used to do this for me, right?

00:46:32   I used to feel like there was a playful joy to the hardware.

00:46:37   And it's not that hardware design has been bad.

00:46:41   I just think that Apple had a different priority

00:46:44   for their design.

00:46:45   Like they wanted to create premium,

00:46:47   sleek, stylish looking devices.

00:46:50   And whilst this machine is still premium and sleek,

00:46:54   it's also in big bright colors

00:46:56   and that kind of makes it more joyous.

00:46:58   Like my system tint is yellow and that also makes me smile

00:47:03   because it's like, oh, even Safari knows

00:47:05   that this is a yellow computer, right?

00:47:07   Like I love that little stuff.

00:47:09   Like these are like frequent reminders

00:47:12   that I am using a computer that I find fun

00:47:15   whilst also it is incredibly powerful.

00:47:17   Like I've not even really spoken to me

00:47:19   'cause there isn't really much to say.

00:47:20   I think about the M1 that you haven't heard before,

00:47:24   but it has made me realize something

00:47:26   and using this machine for editing and stuff like that.

00:47:29   One I had noticed about the MacBook Pro

00:47:31   compared to my iMac Pro where the M1 right now

00:47:35   is not as fast in some tasks as my iMac Pro is,

00:47:39   like exporting a project from Logic.

00:47:42   But during the actual editing process,

00:47:45   everything is much more smooth, right?

00:47:48   The M1 in Logic is a much nicer experience.

00:47:51   And I actually think for me, that is more important

00:47:54   than a few seconds on the export

00:47:57   because I'm less frustrated

00:47:58   and have more of an enjoyable experience

00:48:02   actually doing the hard part of the work.

00:48:04   So I think this machine right now

00:48:06   is more tuned to what I need,

00:48:08   but what I expect from M1X or M2 or whatever it's gonna be,

00:48:13   it's both of those things.

00:48:15   All of the performance gains that I see

00:48:17   in these Pro applications because of Apple Silicon,

00:48:21   plus the power to export more fast than the iMac Pro would.

00:48:26   Go back to the design.

00:48:30   I know that a lot of people are like,

00:48:31   "Why is the chin here?

00:48:33   Get rid of the chin.

00:48:35   I just want no bezels."

00:48:37   I say no.

00:48:38   I love, I don't want them to get rid of the chin on the iMac.

00:48:42   I think that it adds personality to this computer.

00:48:46   If it had no chin, it would look like a monitor.

00:48:48   And I don't want my computer to look like a monitor.

00:48:51   I want my computer to look like a computer.

00:48:54   And maybe this is like a nostalgia thing for me,

00:48:57   or there's like some kind of blinkered vision.

00:49:00   I don't know.

00:49:01   But for me, this looks like a computer

00:49:04   and it looks like a fun, beautiful computer.

00:49:07   With my phone, with my iPad, I want no bezels.

00:49:11   Do you know why?

00:49:11   'Cause I have to hold it.

00:49:12   Spaces of a premium in my hands.

00:49:15   I don't have that concern with my computer.

00:49:18   Like it's not a problem for me to have no bezels.

00:49:23   - For 17 years, the iMac's look from the front

00:49:28   has been a screen with a chin below it.

00:49:31   Like that's what an iMac looks like, right?

00:49:34   And although they took the logo off of it,

00:49:36   they have the color accent there.

00:49:38   This is their decision, right?

00:49:41   Is to do it this way because they,

00:49:42   of course they could have put it behind.

00:49:44   It would have been a little bit thicker,

00:49:46   but they could have put it behind the screen

00:49:48   and had like a thicker iMac that didn't have it.

00:49:52   But I think you're exactly right.

00:49:53   Like the chin, and we mentioned this

00:49:55   when we interviewed them,

00:49:57   but like the chin is part of the design language

00:49:58   of the iMac, it has been for a long time.

00:50:00   You could get rid of it, but like,

00:50:02   I don't view the last 17 years of the iMac

00:50:05   as the eternal struggle to get rid of the chin.

00:50:08   Like the chin, it's part of the iMac.

00:50:11   Like you could, yeah, fine, you're right.

00:50:14   You could take it off.

00:50:14   It would look like a monitor at that point,

00:50:16   more than a computer.

00:50:17   And I think that that chin almost signals like,

00:50:20   oh, you're looking at an iMac.

00:50:22   Yeah.

00:50:23   - And I think it's just like one of the,

00:50:24   it's just whatever your tastes are for the design.

00:50:27   'Cause if you got rid of the chin,

00:50:29   it would look more sleek.

00:50:30   But as I said earlier, I kind of want it to be fun.

00:50:33   Like this iMac feels iconic in its design to me, right?

00:50:38   Like, because it is building on all of the design language

00:50:41   of iMacs before, but the color and the thinness,

00:50:45   I think makes it a design that we will look back on.

00:50:49   I feel maybe as fondly as we look back on the G3,

00:50:54   because my hope and my feeling is right now,

00:50:59   this is the beginning of Apple computers

00:51:02   with more personality and fun again,

00:51:06   in a way that they haven't for a while.

00:51:07   You know, this is something you touched on so much

00:51:09   during 20 Macs in 2020.

00:51:11   That the design of a lot of the computers

00:51:13   have been very similar for a long period of time.

00:51:15   - Yeah.

00:51:16   I did a whole rant in that podcast series

00:51:18   about how Apple should put color on the Mac again.

00:51:20   So I'm very happy that this is here.

00:51:21   - We've been asking for this for ages, right?

00:51:23   Like starting with the iPhone

00:51:24   and we want colors on our iPads and colors on our Macs.

00:51:27   Like it's been great for a long time.

00:51:30   Been very happy with the design.

00:51:31   Apple have made beautiful products,

00:51:33   but you gotta change every now and then.

00:51:35   And I think that all this bright and beautiful color,

00:51:38   that is a great change.

00:51:40   And yeah, I don't think I'm gonna get

00:51:42   these wonderful pastel colors on Pro machines,

00:51:44   but I'm expecting like midnight green, Pacific blue,

00:51:49   like, you know, that kind of stuff.

00:51:50   So I can still have something different.

00:51:53   - Right.

00:51:55   - I actually wanna wrap up my thoughts here

00:51:57   by talking about the speakers,

00:51:59   because I had a revelation with the speakers.

00:52:02   So I just put some music on,

00:52:05   'cause I was like, oh yeah, this has speakers in it.

00:52:07   Apple talk about the speakers being good.

00:52:08   And I didn't expect the speakers on this machine

00:52:11   to sound as good as they do,

00:52:13   considering the kind of limited space

00:52:15   that they're dealing with.

00:52:16   And like to my ears, they sounded really great for music.

00:52:20   Like it just sounded like there was some separation

00:52:23   and the bass was good and everything was clear.

00:52:26   And I thought it sounded really great.

00:52:27   And it made me think that,

00:52:30   like I could imagine someone very happily

00:52:32   having this computer in their living room

00:52:35   and using it to play music like a home pod,

00:52:38   as well as you might do other computer style stuff on it.

00:52:42   And then I thought, well,

00:52:44   I think that this is kind of what this iMac is,

00:52:46   like it's where it shines.

00:52:48   It is a computer that becomes a part of your home

00:52:52   in a way that computers, I think for a long time,

00:52:55   they've been like, you put them in the office

00:52:58   or like you get them out of the way.

00:53:00   And I think that this one has more going for it

00:53:04   to be a part of the living room or the family room

00:53:08   than maybe a lot of computers have in a while.

00:53:10   Like it doesn't take up a lot of space.

00:53:12   There's a great screen, which is big.

00:53:14   The touch ID makes it super easy

00:53:16   to switch between family members, which is super cool.

00:53:19   Like anybody, if like,

00:53:20   if me and Jason are both registered as a computer,

00:53:23   if I'm logged in and Jason puts his finger

00:53:25   on the touch ID sensor, it will switch to his account.

00:53:28   It has great, the girl has great speakers.

00:53:29   It has a good camera and mics of video calling and stuff.

00:53:32   Like it feels like it has this vibe

00:53:34   of a kind of general purpose home family computer

00:53:38   in a way that I don't remember for a while.

00:53:41   And I think all of the colors and stuff

00:53:42   really accentuate that.

00:53:45   I think this, for what this machine is

00:53:48   and what it is expected to be used for,

00:53:50   I think it's a slam dunk.

00:53:51   Like I adore it.

00:53:53   I think it's a fantastic computer.

00:53:56   And I didn't think that I would feel so excited

00:53:59   about the 21 inch iMac replacement,

00:54:03   because I feel like I knew what that computer was gonna be,

00:54:07   but I was wrong.

00:54:08   It's a way cooler computer than that one that was in my mind.

00:54:11   I think it's great. I love it.

00:54:12   - Yeah, I more or less agree.

00:54:16   I'm disappointed by the webcam,

00:54:17   even though it's the best Mac webcam ever,

00:54:19   because having seen center stage,

00:54:21   like they should have done that on the iMac

00:54:23   and maybe they will do that in the future.

00:54:25   In fact, I think it's almost certain that they will.

00:54:28   But yeah, I think I agree with you that it's fun.

00:54:31   And most of the criticism I've seen honestly

00:54:34   is from people for whom this is not the Mac that they want.

00:54:37   Like this isn't for you.

00:54:39   And also it's just funny.

00:54:41   A lot of the criticism is very much sort of stuff

00:54:44   that's not an issue.

00:54:45   Like people don't like the colors.

00:54:46   It's like, well, that's why there's the silver one.

00:54:48   So stop talking about the colors.

00:54:50   If we like the colors,

00:54:51   we're not telling you you have to get the colors,

00:54:55   get the silver one.

00:54:56   They make the silver one for a reason,

00:54:57   but we're excited about the colors.

00:54:58   And similarly, it's a low end iMac.

00:55:01   It is the 24 inch, formerly the 21 and a half inch iMac.

00:55:05   There will be more, and it's on an M1.

00:55:08   There will be more powerful, bigger,

00:55:10   probably iMacs in the relatively near future.

00:55:14   But for what this is,

00:55:16   and Apple trying to find a place for it,

00:55:18   where does it belong?

00:55:19   Why do you need a desktop computer at your house now?

00:55:21   Something like this is that's Apple's argument

00:55:24   of like this is pleasant to reside in a house

00:55:28   and you can move it around

00:55:29   and different people can use it.

00:55:31   And it's got the big screen,

00:55:32   which is a lot bigger than any mobile device you're using

00:55:36   for when you wanna use that big screen.

00:55:37   And yeah, yeah.

00:55:39   Also, I agree about the speakers.

00:55:40   I didn't write about it,

00:55:41   but I did write my article

00:55:43   with music playing on the speakers.

00:55:46   And it's good enough that I don't think

00:55:48   that I would need a separate external speaker

00:55:51   most of the time when I'm working,

00:55:53   if I was just editing podcasts

00:55:55   and listening to music when I'm writing.

00:55:58   Yeah, I've been choosing to listen to music

00:56:00   on the speakers where typically even with my iMac Pro,

00:56:03   I would use my headphones instead.

00:56:05   I've been quite surprised at how good they sound.

00:56:09   I just wanted to dovetail

00:56:11   from the beginning of our conversation

00:56:13   and just say that for a memory for me

00:56:16   is like my first experience with pre-release hardware.

00:56:19   I'm really pleased it was this computer

00:56:22   'cause I think this is just gonna be

00:56:25   a memorable computer anyway.

00:56:26   And so, yeah, it's been a fun experience for me.

00:56:29   - Yeah.

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00:57:43   Let's talk about the iPad Pro.

00:57:45   - Yeah, let's do it.

00:57:46   - Wow, so I love this.

00:57:49   I feel like we could sum it up

00:57:51   with this one line from your review.

00:57:54   It's in your introduction.

00:57:55   "A Hall of Fame device

00:57:56   that just can't fulfill its remarkable potential."

00:57:59   It's really great.

00:58:01   We got one on Friday, so I got one for Adina

00:58:05   and I've been poking around with it very much,

00:58:07   but I haven't spent anywhere near as much time as you.

00:58:10   Like I've just been doing the kind of things

00:58:12   you would do, right?

00:58:13   I looked at how dark some UI is in the images

00:58:16   and we played around the center stage.

00:58:19   But you know, I haven't done any of the testing

00:58:20   that you will have done on yours.

00:58:23   Overall, how do you feel about this?

00:58:26   Does this iPad excite you?

00:58:28   Are you gonna get one for yourself?

00:58:30   - Well, it doesn't excite me.

00:58:36   It is very impressive in a lot of ways,

00:58:39   but this is the theme of the whole thing,

00:58:41   which is it's impressive in a lot of ways

00:58:43   and I'm sure that I could use some of the power

00:58:46   doing some of the stuff I do like editing,

00:58:49   but it still feels like I would like there to be more here.

00:58:53   That you could really argue that if you bought an iPad Pro

00:58:57   in 2018, you have no reason to update to this,

00:59:02   unless you really want that screen.

00:59:04   I'm like everybody else hoping that at

00:59:08   the developer conference, we're gonna get iPadOS 15

00:59:11   and it's going to legitimately use the features

00:59:16   of this thing in a way that older devices don't

00:59:20   and it's gonna make you wanna get it.

00:59:21   And I have some theories about that.

00:59:23   I actually wrote about that Six Colors Members post

00:59:26   last week about that.

00:59:28   I have a theory that one of the reasons

00:59:30   that they come with eight and 16 gigs of RAM,

00:59:33   in addition to it just sort of being M1 standard,

00:59:35   is if you're gonna rethink multitasking on the iPad

00:59:38   and potentially allow apps to run in Windows

00:59:43   and have multiple apps running and viewable

00:59:45   at the same time, they need to be in memory.

00:59:49   There's much more memory pressure

00:59:53   if you expand multitasking on iPadOS than there used to be.

00:59:56   And it's one of those things where having eight

00:59:58   or 16 gigs of RAM suddenly becomes really convenient

01:00:02   and not just I can have a lot of browser tabs

01:00:05   or I can launch a bunch of apps and they instantly launch

01:00:08   instead of having to relaunch 'cause they quit

01:00:09   in the background because of memory pressure.

01:00:11   Like I feel like you can definitely invent all sorts

01:00:15   of ways where the specs of this thing are suddenly made

01:00:20   much more necessary by the OS.

01:00:25   But today, for 99% of the people who use the iPad Pro,

01:00:30   you could just, if you're using the 2018 model,

01:00:35   you just go on using it

01:00:36   and it's not gonna be appreciably different.

01:00:39   The, yes, the screen is amazing.

01:00:41   It is beautiful.

01:00:42   I imagine that every Apple display

01:00:45   that is currently using backlight LCD

01:00:49   is going to go to this mini LED backlight

01:00:52   and that's gonna roll out over the next few years

01:00:56   and it's going to dramatically improve everybody's displays.

01:00:58   And that's really exciting 'cause it's gorgeous.

01:01:01   It is a fantastic display.

01:01:02   - I so desperately want it in an 11 inch

01:01:07   'cause just, I was trying to play around.

01:01:09   I was like, okay, let me fill this.

01:01:11   And I was reading some stuff or whatever.

01:01:13   For what I'm using my iPad for most these days,

01:01:16   which is like a lot of reading and entertainment stuff

01:01:18   and just taking some basic notes,

01:01:20   I am using it in my hands more than I'm using it

01:01:23   in the Magic Keyboard.

01:01:24   And it's too big and heavy compared to the 11,

01:01:28   like the 12.9, it's just too big and heavy.

01:01:30   - I mean, and I am a 12.9 user and have been,

01:01:33   and this one is just a little bit bigger,

01:01:36   a little bit heavier.

01:01:38   And as Federico said, and last week on Connected

01:01:41   and as I said in my review and he wrote in his review,

01:01:43   you can tell it's one of those moments I send him a text.

01:01:45   I basically said, I like it when we're working

01:01:48   on these things in parallel and not talking to each other.

01:01:51   And then I read your review and I think,

01:01:52   oh, he said the same thing I did.

01:01:54   And one of them is, yeah, it's noticeably heavier.

01:01:57   It's not a lot heavier, but it's already a device

01:02:00   that's kind of pushing it in terms of how big this thing is

01:02:04   and how heavy it is.

01:02:05   And it's now a little bit heavier.

01:02:07   So what am I going to get out of this?

01:02:09   What am I going to get out of it?

01:02:10   Well, the screen is beautiful, no doubt about it.

01:02:12   Center stage is amazing, no doubt about it.

01:02:14   Yes, 11 inch iPads with this technology

01:02:18   that will come at some point here

01:02:20   will bring this to a lot more people

01:02:23   and they'll love it too.

01:02:24   Center stage is going to go everywhere.

01:02:27   I feel like it's only a matter of time

01:02:28   before every Apple device has center stage.

01:02:32   - It's so cool.

01:02:33   - The whole idea that you'd put an ultra wide camera

01:02:36   in the front facing camera.

01:02:37   And so, yeah, the selfies aren't quite as good

01:02:39   because the selfies by default,

01:02:40   they're basically like cropped and de-skewing

01:02:42   the ultra wide camera to make it look like

01:02:44   the same frame of view, field of view as it was before.

01:02:48   But if you tap or pinch, you can get the ultra wide view,

01:02:51   which is very, very wide and kind of weird,

01:02:55   but you get a 12 megapixel ultra wide view,

01:02:57   and then you can dynamically crop and de-skew

01:03:00   and create that effect of you having

01:03:04   your own personal camera man tracking you

01:03:07   as you move around and somebody comes into frame.

01:03:10   There's in my story, there's a GIF

01:03:12   of an actual family Zoom that we did.

01:03:16   And my son and I sit down next to my wife and my daughter

01:03:20   and the camera pulls out so that all four of us

01:03:23   are in the frame.

01:03:24   And when we leave, it's not in the story,

01:03:26   but like when we leave, I left and it goes down to three

01:03:29   and then my son leaves and it goes down to two.

01:03:31   And it's just, it's magical.

01:03:33   It really does feel magical.

01:03:34   It is a wonderful thing.

01:03:35   So I can't see how Apple isn't gonna be putting

01:03:37   ultra wide forward facing cameras and center stage

01:03:40   into every product that it makes at some point,

01:03:43   especially any product that is likely to be set down

01:03:46   somewhere and not held in a hand.

01:03:47   So maybe the iPhone, maybe not the iPhone,

01:03:50   although maybe the iPhone, but maybe not the iPhone,

01:03:52   but like every Mac and all the iPads.

01:03:55   Like it's such a great feature.

01:03:57   We use this stuff all the time.

01:03:58   It's so natural.

01:03:59   I'm at the point now where if I can do a video,

01:04:02   anything on that iPad Pro, that's where I choose to do it

01:04:05   because it's so nice. - They should put it

01:04:06   on the iPhone.

01:04:07   I mean, the iPhone already has a ultra wide

01:04:10   on the front facing.

01:04:11   - I think the only issue with the iPhone

01:04:13   is that if it's in your hand,

01:04:14   it's gotta fight your own hand movement.

01:04:17   And I wonder if there's stabilization and issues there

01:04:20   where it's trying to focus on your face

01:04:22   and then you're moving it around and how does that work?

01:04:25   And I don't know.

01:04:26   So that's the caveat I'll give there.

01:04:28   But otherwise, yeah, I mean, it's great.

01:04:31   I hate to do the thing that everybody is doing,

01:04:34   but this is what it is, which is it's center stage is great.

01:04:38   The screen is great.

01:04:39   It's an M1.

01:04:41   It's just as fast as all those M1 Macs.

01:04:44   I did the tests.

01:04:45   It's just as fast.

01:04:46   It doesn't boost the speed over the 2020 and 2018 iPad Pros

01:04:52   as much because they already were using Apple Silicon, right?

01:04:56   So it's not, it doesn't have to,

01:04:57   they don't get the leg up on Intel effect, but it's faster.

01:05:00   But again, how often are you pushing against the speed

01:05:04   of the A12 in those models?

01:05:07   How much do you hit the RAM limit,

01:05:11   especially on the 2020 model

01:05:13   that was all at six gigs of RAM?

01:05:14   Thunderbolt is nice,

01:05:17   but unless you're in very particular things

01:05:19   where you're hanging a whole bunch of devices,

01:05:21   probably including a monitor off of it,

01:05:23   then what, you know, you're not gonna see it

01:05:26   because the USB three is, the USB that's on the previous

01:05:31   models is faster than any, you know,

01:05:33   regular hard drive that you would plug in is gonna be.

01:05:36   So Thunderbolt, it's like, it's overkill.

01:05:38   It's all overkill.

01:05:40   And that's great because you could buy this thing

01:05:43   and it's probably gonna work great at full capacity

01:05:46   for a long time because it's such overkill.

01:05:49   But at the same time, first off,

01:05:51   you may already have one that works fine.

01:05:52   So you should wait if it works fine for you,

01:05:55   because, you know, this doesn't really enable

01:05:57   that much that's new.

01:05:59   And two, it's frustrating because I want it,

01:06:03   you know, I want this hardware that's so amazing

01:06:06   to allow me to do more.

01:06:08   And it doesn't because there are missing apps.

01:06:12   Apple's Pro apps aren't there,

01:06:14   and I know there are alternatives,

01:06:15   but you know, if you're, like LumaFusion is great,

01:06:20   but LumaFusion is not Final Cut Pro.

01:06:24   And so you have to learn a different app

01:06:25   that behaves differently.

01:06:27   And then if I wanna work on a project on Final Cut Pro

01:06:30   and then take it to LumaFusion or vice versa,

01:06:32   it's either you can't do it or it's hard to do it.

01:06:36   And you know, this could be better.

01:06:38   Like Apple could have its own Pro apps.

01:06:40   Apple could rethink multitasking.

01:06:43   Apple could do proper external device support

01:06:45   or external display support.

01:06:46   There are lots of things that would make this new iPad Pro

01:06:51   be like, oh yes, look what it enables for me.

01:06:54   But instead, I worry that it ends up being an exercise

01:06:58   of counting specs and saying,

01:07:01   look at all the specs that are big.

01:07:03   And a number without any context,

01:07:05   a feature without any way to really use it is pointless.

01:07:09   So that's where we are with the iPad Pro.

01:07:11   And I'm somebody who loves the iPad,

01:07:12   and I use the iPad a lot, but I look at this thing

01:07:15   and I just think, where's the rest of it?

01:07:18   And I apologize for that not being an original take

01:07:21   'cause it's literally every iPad Pro take

01:07:24   for the last three years.

01:07:25   But that, you know, we're kind of there again,

01:07:27   which is this is an amazing piece of hardware

01:07:29   with some really remarkable technology on it.

01:07:32   And now what?

01:07:34   - At least we can say it is a better buy

01:07:37   than the 2020 iPad Pro

01:07:39   because this one got some real great quality of life features

01:07:44   like center stage, like the display.

01:07:45   - The 2020 iPad Pro had essentially nothing.

01:07:48   It had the LIDAR scanner and the one extra GPU core.

01:07:52   I had somebody ask me like,

01:07:53   I would have liked you to run your benchmark tests

01:07:55   against the 2018 iPad Pro as well.

01:07:57   And I'm like, it's the same,

01:07:59   like except the GPU score would be slightly less

01:08:03   because it would be seven eighths instead of, you know,

01:08:05   a hundred percent of the GPU cores of the Z model.

01:08:08   But like, it's just, they didn't change it.

01:08:11   It was so far ahead that they basically didn't change it.

01:08:13   And they just added a LIDAR scanner.

01:08:15   And this is more than that.

01:08:16   This is appreciably faster.

01:08:18   But again, you know,

01:08:22   like I was talking to the developer of Fairite

01:08:25   and he said, MP3 exports are a lot faster

01:08:27   'cause that's multi-threaded

01:08:29   and they're a lot faster on the M1.

01:08:30   And I edited a podcast this weekend on it.

01:08:32   And yeah, that's great.

01:08:34   That's an example where it's good.

01:08:36   And I'm sure video editing is more responsive.

01:08:38   I exported a two hour almost long video

01:08:42   from LumaFusion over the weekend.

01:08:43   And you know, it was,

01:08:46   it's pretty much the same performance

01:08:48   as my MacBook Air, right?

01:08:49   Like it's, or the 24 inch iMac, it's an M1.

01:08:53   It does what you'd expect.

01:08:55   It's just that in an iPad context,

01:08:58   I just feel all of the,

01:09:00   by calling it an M1, Apple is drawing attention to the fact

01:09:04   that it's just as powerful as the Mac

01:09:06   in terms of the hardware.

01:09:08   And then you start looking around and say,

01:09:10   well, yeah, but all of these things that I do on my Mac

01:09:14   that I can't do on my iPad.

01:09:15   - I was seeing, I think it was Matt Castanelli today

01:09:19   on Twitter was saying that potentially Apple

01:09:23   do a disservice by releasing the hardware

01:09:25   before the software.

01:09:27   And I wonder what you thought about that.

01:09:30   Would it be better to have at least waited until WWDC

01:09:35   to show off the hardware and put the hardware on sale?

01:09:38   'Cause then you could at least say like,

01:09:40   we've seen what iOS 15 can do

01:09:43   and we know how that's gonna take advantage of this.

01:09:45   Like, especially with being so close,

01:09:48   you know, like a few weeks really difference.

01:09:51   I understand the argument of like,

01:09:52   if you've got the hardware, release the hardware,

01:09:55   release the hardware, but there's, you know.

01:10:00   - But the hardware development is going,

01:10:02   it's in its pipeline and you're replacing the old model

01:10:06   with a new model.

01:10:07   And I don't think that the new model like is

01:10:16   harmed in some way by the fact that the software

01:10:18   hasn't changed.

01:10:20   It's more a frustration about the platform,

01:10:22   like holding off on it and not releasing a thing

01:10:25   that you designed, you know, two years ago

01:10:28   and built a year ago and now is ready for production

01:10:30   and then holding it for nine months or six months

01:10:33   or even a month or two in order to reveal your plan

01:10:37   for your next operating system release.

01:10:40   It seems like a silly thing to ask.

01:10:43   It's like, you should just release the hardware

01:10:44   when you release the hardware.

01:10:45   If honestly, part of my, what my heart tells me is,

01:10:49   if this was the case, we'd still be waiting

01:10:51   for the 2018 iPad Pro to come out.

01:10:53   Right, I mean, not really, but like they could have held

01:10:58   that for a while and they could have held this.

01:11:01   Holding the hardware that already exists

01:11:03   and could be mass produced because the software isn't ready

01:11:06   is not only kind of a ridiculous suggestion,

01:11:09   but it shows you just how broken this situation is.

01:11:13   That that's the solution is don't make the software look bad.

01:11:16   Just wait with the hardware.

01:11:17   We know you're way ahead in hardware.

01:11:18   Just sit on your hardware for a year

01:11:20   until the software can catch up.

01:11:22   And you know, that's the truth of it.

01:11:24   So it's an amazing product.

01:11:26   And if you're in the market for an iPad Pro,

01:11:28   if you want that screen, if you want center stage,

01:11:30   there's lots of reasons to get it.

01:11:31   But yeah, we are put back in the position

01:11:36   where we're hoping that the platform advances

01:11:38   to make the more impressive hardware more useful.

01:11:43   And I talk about the screen a lot.

01:11:45   Yes, the 11 is going to give you the M1 in center stage.

01:11:47   It's just not going to give you the screen.

01:11:49   So this goes for the 11 inch model as well.

01:11:52   - Yeah, I think that screen though,

01:11:53   like it's a big feature of this device.

01:11:57   - It's huge.

01:11:58   It's a huge feature.

01:11:59   And it's the future of Apple displays.

01:12:02   Like it very clearly is that this is

01:12:04   where they're going next.

01:12:05   And I would be, I'd actually be surprised

01:12:07   if you don't see it in Apple's next round of laptops.

01:12:11   And probably if they do that higher end iMac,

01:12:14   that it would be there too.

01:12:16   'Cause this really feels like it's a tech intro

01:12:19   of something and center stage actually.

01:12:22   Those are tech intros of things

01:12:23   that are going to go across the platform.

01:12:24   They just happen to be in the iPad Pro first.

01:12:27   - This episode is brought to you by Public Sector Future.

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01:14:41   So usually we would say right now in the show,

01:14:43   it's time for #AskUpgrade, but we have more

01:14:45   because there was a report that we just couldn't let go

01:14:48   because that's the lasers powering down.

01:14:51   They were so ready to go.

01:14:53   Mark Gurman released a report kind of detailing

01:14:56   the future of Apple's Mac hardware last week

01:14:59   and I wanted to touch on it.

01:15:00   We can go through all these things,

01:15:02   we can stop where we want to,

01:15:04   but there was a lot of interesting detail in here

01:15:06   that I was afraid otherwise we wouldn't talk about

01:15:09   for weeks and I didn't want that to be the case

01:15:11   in case we see some of it before now.

01:15:13   MacBook Pro will debut as soon as early summer,

01:15:17   fingers crossed for WWDC.

01:15:19   So stuff we know, 14 and 16 inches mag safe HDMI SD card,

01:15:24   but it will feature new Apple Silicon chips.

01:15:27   These chips will feature eight high performance cores

01:15:30   and two energy efficient cores, 16 or 32 graphics cores

01:15:35   and up to 64 gigabytes of memory.

01:15:38   Now, just to put this into perspective,

01:15:40   the current M1, it's four high performance,

01:15:43   four energy efficiency.

01:15:45   So this will be more high performance cores,

01:15:49   fewer energy efficiency cores with the ability

01:15:51   to now have up to 64 gigabytes of RAM.

01:15:55   Sounds exciting, doesn't it?

01:15:57   - Yeah, so again, it's a mystery

01:16:00   of how they're gonna brand this,

01:16:01   but my guess is that this is the M1X, essentially.

01:16:06   That this is not, 'cause it's coming as soon as early summer,

01:16:11   I'll have the as soon as, could be five years from now,

01:16:14   but it could be this summer, early summer.

01:16:16   So it'd be mid summer, late summer, fall,

01:16:19   those are all, but as soon as early summer.

01:16:21   Anyway. - Late spring, no way.

01:16:22   - So if you think about the A14 core

01:16:27   that is in the iPad Air and then the iPhone,

01:16:31   'cause they had the weird sequencing thing there.

01:16:34   The way I generally view how Apple

01:16:37   does their silicon advancement is

01:16:40   they build a new base core every year.

01:16:42   And then we're in the A14 year.

01:16:46   And the M1 is based on that A14 core.

01:16:48   That's the chip generation, for lack of a better word,

01:16:52   that we're on right now.

01:16:54   And so if there's gonna be a new Apple silicon chip

01:16:57   this summer, it strikes me that it's more likely

01:17:00   that it's based on that A14 core.

01:17:02   And they built a new model that's got a different set

01:17:06   of characteristics, but it's still based on that

01:17:08   kind of fundamental system.

01:17:11   And so you could see a scenario where M1 is essentially,

01:17:16   you know, the A number,

01:17:18   the M processors are the A number minus 13.

01:17:22   And they advance together every year.

01:17:25   So this is, we're in M1 year.

01:17:28   Year one of Apple silicon is M1.

01:17:30   And this would be eight high-performance cores

01:17:33   and two energy-efficient cores.

01:17:35   Those would still be A14 cores essentially, or M1 cores,

01:17:39   but there are more of them.

01:17:40   And so it's M1X.

01:17:41   Or they could call it something else,

01:17:43   but like, let's call it M1X, at least for now.

01:17:45   It's that idea that it's more of the same.

01:17:48   And if that disappoints you, it shouldn't.

01:17:51   Performance of Apple's processors

01:17:54   historically has scaled basically

01:17:56   with the number of high-performance cores.

01:17:58   Energy-efficient cores are really nice,

01:17:59   but obviously if you're measuring peak performance,

01:18:01   it all comes out of the high-performance cores.

01:18:04   This rumored processor would mean that these rumored max

01:18:07   would be literally twice as fast as the previous M1 max,

01:18:12   which were already pretty fast.

01:18:14   So that's pretty great.

01:18:15   - I hadn't thought of it that way.

01:18:17   - And then you throw in 16 or 32 graphics cores

01:18:20   instead of eight, so you're gonna double or triple

01:18:22   your graphics performance.

01:18:24   And now you've got the memory to go up to 64 gigs of RAM.

01:18:27   So yeah, it's a big step up.

01:18:29   - Apparently there's also gonna be potentially

01:18:31   a new Mac mini with these same chips

01:18:35   and four ports on them, which, okay, fine.

01:18:39   Mark also details the potential for a new MacBook Air.

01:18:42   Now this, Mark labels to be a direct successor

01:18:45   to the M1 chips, let's imagine M2.

01:18:47   And it would have the same CPU core count,

01:18:50   but would run faster.

01:18:51   So this is all kind of tying into what you were saying,

01:18:54   right, that this would be based on the A15 core

01:18:59   and there would be the same amount,

01:19:00   but they would run quicker because it's the new generation.

01:19:03   And apparently they would also look to potentially

01:19:05   increase graphics a little bit.

01:19:07   And this new MacBook Air will probably be

01:19:10   what we were talking about over the last couple of weeks

01:19:12   of this new design with new colors.

01:19:14   And we can expect this maybe towards the end of the year,

01:19:16   maybe, or maybe next year.

01:19:18   - That's your A15 generation and it would be the M2

01:19:21   and it would be, yeah, it would be the same CPU count

01:19:24   as you said, and it will be faster because it's an A15

01:19:27   instead of an A14, it's an M2 instead of an M1,

01:19:30   but not as fast as the, let's call it M1X.

01:19:34   And then of course, this sets them up to then do another

01:19:37   wave of high-end updates next year that are M2X,

01:19:41   that are lots of cores of the new hot thing.

01:19:44   And they don't have to do it this way,

01:19:46   and this may not be how they do it.

01:19:48   But if you look at it from this perspective,

01:19:50   it's like exactly their playbook

01:19:52   for the iPad and the iPhone.

01:19:54   And I think that although they can do whatever they want,

01:19:57   the most likely scenario is that they're gonna look

01:20:01   what they did with the iPad and the iPhone and say,

01:20:03   "Yeah, that works, let's do that."

01:20:05   And make an M1 and an M1X and then an M2 and an M2X

01:20:09   and have it essentially be kind of consumer and pro

01:20:14   of chip variants.

01:20:17   And then that leads to the bigger question,

01:20:19   which is, is Apple gonna revise their computers every year?

01:20:22   Maybe.

01:20:24   Now that they control the chips,

01:20:26   I mean, would you just do refresh them every year

01:20:29   because you control the chips,

01:20:30   you just drop in the new chip and move along?

01:20:34   They could, they could.

01:20:35   It'll be interesting to watch that.

01:20:36   If there are, if like the Mac Mini is a great example

01:20:38   where Mark Gurman says, "Maybe, or maybe not."

01:20:42   I think that's like a great question of like,

01:20:45   what is Apple gonna refresh all these models

01:20:47   on a regular basis?

01:20:48   Are they gonna be like, "Yeah, maybe every two years

01:20:50   or every 18 months or something?"

01:20:51   We'll see.

01:20:52   - I think maybe the difference will be they can

01:20:54   if they want to, right?

01:20:56   Where maybe they haven't been able to in the recent,

01:21:00   in recent memory.

01:21:01   If they want to just bump the chip every year

01:21:04   with no change, they can do that.

01:21:06   - Sure, they can.

01:21:06   And the iPad did go, as was just pointed out

01:21:09   in the member Discord, you know, Apple sometimes goes,

01:21:13   you know, the iPad chip only gets updated

01:21:15   every couple of years.

01:21:16   Well, it's like, that's true.

01:21:17   Although now it's the iPad and the Mac, right?

01:21:18   So there's a little more weight behind doing it

01:21:20   on a regular basis, but yeah, there's nothing

01:21:22   that forces Apple to refresh their product line

01:21:24   except when they want to.

01:21:25   I just wonder like, if they get on a cycle

01:21:28   where they're rolling out a couple of chip variations

01:21:32   every year, would they want to keep the old ones around

01:21:37   or would they be, would they rather refresh everything?

01:21:41   'Cause keeping in mind here that most of these updates

01:21:44   won't be redesigns of the products.

01:21:46   It'll be the same product that it looked like before

01:21:48   with a different chip inside.

01:21:50   So it's not, it's still an update.

01:21:52   It still has cost, but it's not quite the same

01:21:55   as a complete rethink.

01:21:57   - And it would make sense that we would get

01:21:58   a new MacBook Air with, you know, a year after the first one

01:22:01   because the current M1 MacBook Air

01:22:03   is just the same MacBook Air as before.

01:22:06   And if they're gonna redesign all of the machines

01:22:08   potentially by that point, or at least, you know,

01:22:10   like we'll have say maybe another new iMac at some point

01:22:15   and we'll have new MacBook Pros

01:22:16   and maybe there's a new Mac Pro.

01:22:18   You know, you want to want a new MacBook Air in there.

01:22:20   You don't want like the most popular computer

01:22:22   to be the only one that hasn't got a new design.

01:22:26   Could be a bit strange.

01:22:27   Now, one of the things that,

01:22:29   actually the main thing I don't understand from this report,

01:22:32   or at least the thing that I wouldn't have expected

01:22:33   is a new low-end MacBook Pro,

01:22:36   which has the same chip as the MacBook Air.

01:22:39   And that's all it says.

01:22:40   Now I expect here, this is like a,

01:22:43   it looks like the current one,

01:22:45   but like how long are they gonna keep that around and why?

01:22:49   - Yeah, that's like,

01:22:51   is that not the existing 13 inch MacBook Pro?

01:22:54   So would they do like an M2 13 inch MacBook Pro

01:22:56   and keep it around?

01:22:58   I mean, they may, because I don't know why.

01:23:00   It would make more sense for them not to do it that way.

01:23:03   But if the rumors are true

01:23:04   that there's gonna be a 14 inch MacBook Pro,

01:23:06   then they would have 13, 14, 16.

01:23:09   But like, why is it a MacBook Pro

01:23:11   if it's basically a MacBook Air?

01:23:13   Like why, how is that a MacBook Pro?

01:23:17   I don't understand it.

01:23:17   - And would that be the- - It's weird.

01:23:20   - With a touch bar then?

01:23:21   - No.

01:23:23   - Right, like what is this computer?

01:23:26   Like I don't understand this one.

01:23:28   It is I think of everything in the report,

01:23:30   the thing that has the least information.

01:23:33   And that might be for a reason.

01:23:34   But like it was just like a really weird addition to me.

01:23:39   Another weird thing, larger iMac, new processor,

01:23:42   but put on hold for Apple to focus on the 24 inch.

01:23:46   - Yeah, I mentioned this earlier.

01:23:47   It is a mysterious bit of the report

01:23:49   and it's unclear whether this is,

01:23:51   again, who's the source?

01:23:54   What were they working on?

01:23:55   - Yeah, who was maybe put on hold?

01:23:57   - Or did they have to pull some people off

01:23:59   in order to ship the 24

01:24:00   and now they're going back to the other one?

01:24:02   But it is a little, has a little chilling effect, right?

01:24:06   Which is like, oh, maybe that larger iMac

01:24:07   isn't coming right this fall.

01:24:10   - For all we know, that was further along

01:24:12   and they put it on, you know, like we don't,

01:24:14   we don't have detail, right, on that one.

01:24:16   - It's true.

01:24:17   Maybe they made some decisions about it.

01:24:19   I would say I'd still bet on it being done by this fall

01:24:23   because I think Apple wants this transition

01:24:25   to happen quickly.

01:24:27   And now that they've got the 24 inch iMac out there,

01:24:30   having that Intel, that big Intel iMac out there

01:24:32   is just not like, no, gotta get rid of it.

01:24:35   Gotta get rid of it.

01:24:36   - And then the new Mac Pro.

01:24:39   How about 20 or 40 cores?

01:24:42   (both laughing)

01:24:43   16 or 32 high performance cores

01:24:46   with four or eight high efficiency cores,

01:24:49   depending on whether you go for the 20 or 40 core option.

01:24:53   64 or 128 core GPU as an option.

01:24:57   On paper being, I guess, two to four times more powerful

01:25:02   than the Intel Mac Pro.

01:25:03   Smaller physical design, but with a similar look.

01:25:07   I can't even fathom this computer, Jason.

01:25:10   I can't imagine what this would be like to use.

01:25:15   Like the 40 core version with 128 graphics cores.

01:25:20   I can't even imagine what that computer would be like.

01:25:24   - Sounds like a Mac Pro, doesn't it?

01:25:25   - It sounds like a very much a Mac Pro.

01:25:28   This sounds more like what I imagine, in my mind,

01:25:32   the Mac Pro of old.

01:25:34   Like when you would go to the configurator

01:25:36   and you'd bump it all the way to the top

01:25:37   and it would be like soap and on

01:25:38   as compared to everything else.

01:25:40   Like, yeah, I really, I'm super intrigued by this machine.

01:25:45   I don't really, it's just like everything about it, right?

01:25:50   Like what is it gonna be like on the inside?

01:25:52   What will it keep of the old one?

01:25:54   How expandable will it be?

01:25:55   - Right.

01:25:56   - Are Apple's GPUs the only GPUs?

01:25:58   - Gurman still believes that it's actually gonna be

01:26:00   kind of like a mini version of the existing tower

01:26:03   that they're gonna shrink it down a little bit.

01:26:05   But still like the idea of an Apple Silicon based Mac

01:26:10   that's got expansion cards or internal storage,

01:26:13   or there's stuff that the Mac Pro has to deal with

01:26:17   beyond just having lots of cores

01:26:19   that are kind of part of what having a big tower computer

01:26:23   means and what do they have to do?

01:26:26   'Cause I do think that they're committed

01:26:28   to building this computer,

01:26:29   but like what do they have to do

01:26:30   to rethink how Apple Silicon works?

01:26:33   Because they've already had to come from iPhone

01:26:35   and iPad to the Mac and that necessitated changes.

01:26:38   And now they're gonna have to make more changes

01:26:40   in order to handle a sort of Mac Pro kind of architecture.

01:26:44   But what is interesting here is we had a thought

01:26:49   for a long time, which is like,

01:26:50   well, what does a Mac Pro running Apple's ARM processors

01:26:53   even look like?

01:26:54   Like what would that even be?

01:26:56   And what Mark Gurman is saying is,

01:26:58   they're gonna take their A14 or A15, probably the A15,

01:27:02   and they're just gonna put 48 A15 cores

01:27:05   and 128 GPU cores in this thing and go to town.

01:27:10   It's like, okay, well, that's one way to do it.

01:27:15   It's just like just all the cores

01:27:18   because Pro workflows are mostly multi-core enabled.

01:27:21   Like I'm trying to imagine one of my multi-core plugins,

01:27:25   audio plugins running on 40 cores.

01:27:29   Like, yeah, that would be pretty good.

01:27:31   That'd be pretty good, pretty fast.

01:27:32   - Yes, super wild.

01:27:33   - And there was a good story that we didn't,

01:27:36   maybe we can find and put in the show notes.

01:27:37   There's a good story about last week that I read

01:27:39   that was basically an ode to the efficiency cores.

01:27:42   And the article essentially said,

01:27:44   one of the reasons that the M1 Macs feel faster

01:27:48   is because now that they've got the efficiency cores

01:27:50   and the performance cores,

01:27:52   what it does is it allows Apple to do a level

01:27:54   of scheduling of tasks that forces your kind of like

01:28:00   regular stuff onto the efficiency cores.

01:28:02   And so that's always going on,

01:28:05   but it doesn't slow down your need for bursts of performance

01:28:08   which go to the performance cores.

01:28:09   And the idea that this architecture

01:28:11   makes your Mac feel faster

01:28:13   because it can prioritize all those different tasks.

01:28:16   And I thought that was really smart.

01:28:17   And I think that that is, when I think of a Mac Pro

01:28:20   with eight efficiency cores and 32 performance cores,

01:28:24   I think, okay, like I can see that, right?

01:28:27   Where it's like you expect a lot of good Mac Pro performance

01:28:30   happening on a baseline,

01:28:33   and then you want the enormous performance

01:28:34   when you really need it.

01:28:36   And so having four or eight efficiency cores,

01:28:38   it's gonna feel like a really fast computer,

01:28:41   but then when you give it a job,

01:28:42   it's gonna crank up those high performance cores

01:28:45   and spin the fans, and it's gonna be very impressive.

01:28:49   - Jason and I have realized if we don't do Ask Upgrade today,

01:28:52   we're probably gonna do it for like two or three weeks

01:28:54   because of the next few episodes.

01:28:55   So let's do a few today.

01:28:56   I'm gonna warm up the lasers.

01:28:58   - #AskUpgradeQuestion, first one from Rajeev.

01:29:01   Would you ever consider releasing a podcast episode

01:29:03   that supported spatial audio?

01:29:05   - Okay.

01:29:05   Total Party Kill is done in stereo with panning.

01:29:08   Incomparable Radio Theater has done that.

01:29:10   I've done stereo podcasts before.

01:29:12   We had some stereo effects in the Outgrade episode

01:29:15   last year for Summer of Fun.

01:29:18   A lot of people listen with one headphone

01:29:21   and they have to turn it to mono

01:29:22   because they don't want any effects.

01:29:26   Any attempts to do stereo panned episodes,

01:29:29   a lot of people don't like it.

01:29:32   And I'm not sure you would like it if you heard it.

01:29:35   Would we consider it?

01:29:37   Maybe, but it would probably be as a joke.

01:29:40   And we'd probably need to release a version

01:29:43   that didn't have it.

01:29:43   I think most people just don't.

01:29:45   They think that this sounds cool

01:29:46   and then they would not want that.

01:29:48   But you never know.

01:29:50   You never know what you might do.

01:29:52   But yeah, I mean, mostly it's not appropriate.

01:29:55   - Yeah, there's no way I would record, say,

01:29:58   release a regular episode of Upgrade in special audio.

01:30:01   But we might, if there was a, as well,

01:30:05   I don't even know how you would do it

01:30:06   and really take advantage of it.

01:30:07   - Right, right, I mean beyond stereo.

01:30:10   If we did a 5.1 episode somehow.

01:30:14   - Then I would maybe consider it

01:30:15   if I was then making something specifically

01:30:18   to take advantage of the fact

01:30:19   that we have that available to us, right?

01:30:22   And I really don't like the mixing

01:30:26   of left and right personally.

01:30:27   Like I've heard it done aggressively

01:30:29   and I don't like it.

01:30:31   I made that mistake way back in the day.

01:30:32   It just doesn't work.

01:30:34   - The truth is that 90, I would say 98%

01:30:37   of your listening audience doesn't want it

01:30:39   and wouldn't notice it and is not interested in it.

01:30:41   So yeah.

01:30:42   - So Aaron asks, after a year of iOS 14 being around,

01:30:47   do you find that you're hiding most apps

01:30:49   from the home screen or have you kept most of them

01:30:52   in folders on the home screen?

01:30:53   So using app library and that kind of stuff.

01:30:55   - I only have one page that's got apps on it

01:30:58   and so I have gone for no folders

01:31:01   and everything beyond page one is in app library.

01:31:03   - Exactly the same.

01:31:04   I have an extra widget page

01:31:06   but there's no other app icons on it.

01:31:08   Everything's gone now.

01:31:09   I'm either searching for it or app library.

01:31:11   - And I look forward to doing that on my iPad.

01:31:14   - Me too, hopefully, oh my God.

01:31:16   Just I have all these folders that just like,

01:31:20   these bins, just put apps in.

01:31:22   Like I don't even, I never look in there, I don't know.

01:31:25   Like I have just one folder called tools

01:31:27   and it's like eight pages

01:31:29   and so everything just gets put in there.

01:31:31   I don't know what's in there.

01:31:33   And Alex asks, having seen assistive touch

01:31:36   on the Apple Watch, which we were talking about earlier,

01:31:37   used to navigate the screen with hand and wrist movements,

01:31:41   what do you think the chances are

01:31:42   that the watch becomes an input or control method

01:31:44   for future AR devices?

01:31:47   I love this question.

01:31:49   I did not consider this.

01:31:51   This is very intriguing to me.

01:31:53   Like Apple's getting good at sensing hand movements.

01:31:56   This could be really interesting

01:31:58   for when you're trying to control computer devices

01:32:01   that are in your eyes.

01:32:03   - Yeah, I don't know if the Apple Watch

01:32:04   actually becomes the input

01:32:06   because you generally, you're also then saying

01:32:08   you only have one arm that is doing input

01:32:11   and the other one has nothing

01:32:12   'cause you're not wearing a watch on it.

01:32:15   But I could see this as being a spinoff technology

01:32:17   of them trying to do hand tracking and stuff.

01:32:20   - Yeah, like that you would put, say,

01:32:22   two little wristbands on and then that's it, right?

01:32:25   - Could be.

01:32:25   - And that could be how you could control

01:32:27   the mixed reality device at home or something like that.

01:32:30   It could start sensing how you would type

01:32:31   on a magical invisible keyboard,

01:32:34   like all that kind of stuff, right?

01:32:36   Very interesting technology

01:32:38   if they can then harness it to do other stuff,

01:32:41   but in its current, like of just helping people

01:32:43   who need additional assistance with their devices

01:32:46   is also an amazing thing.

01:32:47   All right, we'll be back next week

01:32:50   with the draft for WWDC.

01:32:53   - Yeah, get ready. - As we are fast approaching.

01:32:55   If you would like to listen to longer episodes of Upgrade

01:32:58   with no ads, you can go to getupgradeplus.com and sign up.

01:33:01   Thank you so much to every one of you that does.

01:33:03   If you wanna find Jason online,

01:33:05   you can go to sixcolors.com and he is @jsnew, J-S-N-E-L-L-L.

01:33:09   I am @imike, I-M-Y-K-E.

01:33:12   Thank you so much to Memberful, Pingdom,

01:33:14   and Public Sector Future for Microsoft

01:33:16   for the support of this episode.

01:33:17   And thank you for listening.

01:33:20   Until next time, say goodbye Jason Snow.

01:33:22   - Goodbye everybody.

01:33:23   (upbeat music)

01:33:26   (upbeat music)

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