353: Orange iMac in My Orange Office


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:08   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 353. Today's show is brought to you by Squarespace,

00:00:15   DoorDash and Ooni Pizza Ovens. My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by the one and only Jason Snow. Hi Jason Snow.

00:00:21   I'm Myke Hurley, how are you? I'm fine my friend. Big show today, lots of stuff happening, lots of stuff going on.

00:00:27   But we must stick to format and begin with a #snowtalk question. This one comes from Stitch and

00:00:33   Stitch asks, "Jason, how many apps are currently installed on your phone and do you think that it is more or less than Myke's number?"

00:00:41   I can tell you the answer but even before I looked because I really don't know, I'm going to assume

00:00:48   that there's more apps on your phone because that seems like something you would do.

00:00:52   Okay. I just have more apps than me. If people want to find this out for themselves rather than

00:00:57   counting every app which could take a long time, you go to Settings, General and About and there's

00:01:01   a bunch of information there. I actually thought it might be fun to compare some of these stats anyway.

00:01:06   But how many applications do you have installed on your phone, Jason Snow? 186. Yes, okay.

00:01:15   408. I don't know why I have 408 apps on my phone. I don't know why I have 186 apps but the fact

00:01:23   that you have more than twice as many as me, that part, I do understand. You're a little more free

00:01:29   and easy with the apps also that you do a podcast with Federico so he's feeding you apps all the time.

00:01:35   I just let it ride, baby. Do you have any of the app offloading stuff turned on?

00:01:44   I don't think so. I don't know. I honestly don't know. Okay, so let's look at some other stuff

00:01:52   then. How many songs do you have on your phone? 892. Okay, I have 746. I did come to realize a

00:02:00   couple of days ago I was trying to listen to some music and I went into an area that had no

00:02:04   cell coverage and I realized that I hadn't downloaded a bunch of music onto this phone

00:02:10   because I got this phone during COVID and I usually only need to download music when I'm

00:02:17   on planes and stuff. This also is one of the things that I really hate that you can't

00:02:21   make Apple Music download a bunch of songs and then always download those songs when you

00:02:26   get a next phone. You have to do it manually. It clears it every time. I hate that.

00:02:29   Videos. What are these? I don't know. I assume it's every kind of video, right? I'm assuming it's

00:02:39   more the videos that you've taken with your phone but maybe also if you have stuff in the TV app.

00:02:45   That must be it. It says I have 2,413 videos. I don't have any movies downloaded.

00:02:54   My guess is that that's every video in my photos library. I'm assuming. Mine's 580.

00:03:02   Yeah, I don't know what those are but there you go. Photos. This has got to be bananas. Photos.

00:03:08   How many you got? 90,909. 90909. Now this is maybe similar to the apps thing. I knew you'd have more.

00:03:20   I didn't think it would be that many more. I'm at 13,172 photos. Oh, 13,000 photos. That's so cute.

00:03:28   Well, in a couple of years you could cross 100,000 photos. Yeah, and in fact that number is the

00:03:34   number of photos in my photo library. So those are not actually on the device. That's the number that

00:03:39   is in my iCloud photo library. So those videos are, yeah, those are the videos that are in my

00:03:42   various libraries. But yeah, 90,000. So Myke, I do this book about photos every year.

00:03:48   No, no, I know, I know. And every year I have to update the, I think it's in the introduction

00:03:53   where I mentioned how many photos are in my photo library. So every year I'm like,

00:03:57   now it's more than 80,000. Now it's more than 90,000. It keeps on happening.

00:04:01   Take control of photos from take control books.

00:04:04   Go buy it if you want to. I don't know.

00:04:06   If you want to take control of photos.

00:04:08   It's got a lot of things about the photos app.

00:04:10   If you don't want to take control of photos.

00:04:11   Don't ask me, don't yell at me about how dumb the photos app is. Believe me, I know.

00:04:17   I've written a book about it. Sometimes I get those things. It's like, why does it do it this

00:04:21   way? Why do you? And it's like, I don't have anything to do with it. I'm just reporting the

00:04:25   news here, people. I don't have it. Can you do this? No, you can't. Can you do this? No,

00:04:30   of course you can't do anything that you want to do with photos. It's

00:04:33   an obstinate app, but it is what it is.

00:04:37   If you would like to send in a question to help us open the show, you just send out a tweet with

00:04:41   the hashtag snow talk or use question Mark snow talk in the relay FM members discord.

00:04:45   That was a very good one. I enjoyed that.

00:04:47   You know, the thing that really surprises me about this is that I have 256 gigs of capacity

00:04:52   and I have 193 gigs available.

00:04:54   Okay.

00:04:55   So I'm not using any storage on this phone.

00:04:58   I put mine away now, but I'm basically the same, but I have a five 12 phone and I'm halfway

00:05:03   full on that. I don't know why, but probably because I'm using 63 gigs of storage on this,

00:05:07   on this phone. So I don't actually, this is a good tip for everybody out there when you're

00:05:14   buying a new iPhone and you're like, I don't know how much storage I need.

00:05:17   Look and see how much storage you're using. You've got a big 256 storage phone and then

00:05:24   you realize you're only using 50 gigs on it. You you're probably okay.

00:05:28   Well, on last week's episode in an ask upgrade question, we were talking about app clips

00:05:33   and we said that they seem to have not really taken off.

00:05:35   Where are they?

00:05:36   Where are app clips?

00:05:37   Australia.

00:05:38   If you're Australian upgrade ian's, which by the way, Australian upgrade ian is almost

00:05:43   Australian upgrade ian's.

00:05:46   They found the app clips.

00:05:47   We got some great feedback. The most detailed from mongo who wrote in to tell us that

00:05:53   Australia's contact tracing system has just started using app clips as a way to check

00:05:58   into locations. So if you're going to a restaurant or something, so we have it here, you have

00:06:02   to open the NHS app and scan it. And so you've been to that restaurant or you've been to

00:06:08   that venue or whatever, but in Australia now they now have it with the app clips.

00:06:12   And so mongo said, people here are seeing and using the app clips almost daily, even

00:06:16   with the app downloaded, the QR code now triggers the check in action and making the

00:06:20   whole thing seamless. So you no longer need to actually download an app to do the whole

00:06:24   thing because it just uses the little QR code instead.

00:06:27   It's great.

00:06:27   Even if the app is downloaded, the QR code still works to do the action. So either way,

00:06:32   it is like a quick thing. We also heard from a bunch of people in Texas. In Texas, very

00:06:38   specifically get on your cowboy hat in Texas, oil country saying that Exxon is using app

00:06:47   clips at their gas stations. So that may be an interesting test roll out for them, or

00:06:52   that's where they decided to start. But people in Texas reporting Exxon using app clips at

00:06:58   the gas stations. And somebody also sent in a message that they saw one at a Five Guys

00:07:02   burger place that you could do the app clip outside and do an online order and then go

00:07:07   in and pick it up, which seemed reasonable to me. So they're out there. I think what

00:07:12   we said last time is not that they weren't out there, but that this is a long game.

00:07:16   That this is not going to be something that succeeds or fails in year one because it's

00:07:21   all about putting things in an infrastructure. It's about rolling it out. Like the Exxon

00:07:25   example, it's like rolling it out to every gas station in your gas station network. That's

00:07:30   going to take a lot of time. But I do think that app clips will ultimately be all over

00:07:36   the place because it's a, you know, the example I always give is like, you got to pay for

00:07:41   a parking meter in a city that you're visiting and you need to download their app. It's like,

00:07:47   I don't have their app. I don't want their app. And now you'll be able to just like tap,

00:07:51   it opens the app clip, you pay and then you get on with your life and you don't need to

00:07:55   have that city. Like the example I use is I have in my purchased history forever, the

00:08:00   Salt Lake City parking app. Like, okay, I parked in Salt Lake City twice, one on two

00:08:07   days and that's it. Now I've got that app in there forever. I mean, there's, you know,

00:08:12   as we said last time, like the thing that's going on here is that really the opportunities

00:08:19   that people would have had for this haven't arisen because it's, this is a retail and

00:08:25   dining thing primarily. And the last year there just hasn't been a lot of that opportunity

00:08:32   available. But I could tell you about another one in a moment, but before that, let me tell

00:08:38   you about the 2021 Apple Watch Pride Band, which has been unveiled. It is a combination

00:08:44   of a new watch face and there's two watch bands, a braided solo loop and a Nike sport loop.

00:08:51   The design of the watch face and the solo loop are intended to evoke various pride flags now

00:08:57   to represent the broader LGBTQ+ community. And now Apple is trying to incorporate kind of as many

00:09:03   colors of these as possible for the various, like for various parts of the community into one band.

00:09:09   And I think that this band is absolutely stunning. I think that the braided solo loop is gorgeous.

00:09:16   It is beautiful. And I, you know, I've said, I think I've said this before, but like,

00:09:21   I just really appreciate that Apple makes such beautiful watch bands to support these kinds of

00:09:28   causes and, um, like to, for people to be able to express this because also I think it, because

00:09:36   they're so beautiful, it draws other people to them. And I think can help highlight things to

00:09:41   people that otherwise wouldn't be in those communities. So I kind of really liked that.

00:09:45   And as well, this was announced on the international day against homophobia, transphobia

00:09:49   and biphobia. So it's like the perfect time to show it off. The Nike sport loop is the more

00:09:55   traditional pride flag, uh, but it's got some like reflective materials woven into it. So it's good

00:10:00   for like nighttime running or whatever. Um, and Apple is actually using an app clip in the

00:10:06   packaging of the watch band to help customers easily install the matching watch face. So there

00:10:10   you go all ties in. Somebody in the app, it seems like we could use app clips in our packaging.

00:10:16   They're like, all right, okay. It's like, if we have to, here we go, everybody, evidence that

00:10:21   app clips are a thing is that Apple is using them. No, that's evidence of nothing. I'll stick with

00:10:26   the Australian gradients. I absolutely adore this watch band. It's separated solo loop, so I'm not

00:10:33   going to buy one yet. I want to wait until I can try them on. I want to try them on cause I have

00:10:37   no, I don't want to deal with the whole paper sizing thing. So I would pick one of these up

00:10:43   at some point though. Cause I just think it's stunning. If you've got any with the little

00:10:47   notches on them, you can just use those and get your sizing. Oh yeah. It was the whole thing that

00:10:51   Gruber did and it works. I bought multiple bands for me and for Lauren using that technique works

00:10:58   great. Okay. I'll, I'll dig into that then. I'll dig into that, but it's really cool. It's

00:11:02   beautiful too. I think it did a fantastic job. So I want to tell you about something special. It's

00:11:08   membership special time. So it's double special. We, every year around August, we have had extra

00:11:14   bonus episodes for relay FM members. Uh, we are now doing this earlier. So one of the reasons we

00:11:21   are kind of splitting up the time that we have is because we would go straight from our specials

00:11:27   into the podcast. These are two huge projects that we have been doing around the same time of the

00:11:32   year. And we have decided that's a bad idea. Don't do that. Don't do that. So we're now going to

00:11:38   be doing our membership specials earlier in the year, kind of around May time. And here we are.

00:11:43   So on this show, we are going to be teaming up again with CGP Grey of the Cortex podcast

00:11:47   for our annual special that we do, uh, the last, I think four years or so we've been doing text

00:11:53   adventures. Jason has been our text adventure, parser and Mia Grey have been going through

00:11:58   the world, but this time we're doing something different. Yeah. So instead of a text adventure,

00:12:04   we're going to be stepping things up a notch and doing a full RPG adventure instead. Yeah.

00:12:11   It's a full role-playing game. So not a text adventure for something a little more,

00:12:15   it's not Dungeons and dragons, but it's like Dungeons and dragons. And I think the most

00:12:20   important point here is that I am no longer in the safe, comfortable position of being

00:12:27   Snellatron 3000 instead I have joined you and Grey as a player. When we were looking at this,

00:12:36   kind of changing it, I think it was something that we decided that it just felt right for you to be

00:12:41   on our side now rather than playing against us. It's like the shoe was on the other foot on that

00:12:45   way. And then also we're expanding the, expanding the world and expanding the way we do it. So the

00:12:50   logical step would be that now the three of us who've done all of these specials together

00:12:54   would now have to join forces in, you know, in a new adventure. So we're going to be part of the

00:13:00   same team navigating a space-based adventure. And we've brought in our ringer, Tony Cinderella,

00:13:07   who is the dungeon master slash games master of the total party kill podcast to help us.

00:13:12   We needed an experienced game master to create the world for us. And Tony has done an absolutely

00:13:18   superb job. This special is going to be published on May 21st. It's this Friday, if you're listening

00:13:24   this week, it would be for RealAFM members in the crossover feed.

00:13:28   Otherwise it's already published. Otherwise it's already out.

00:13:30   This is where you get all of our annual bonus specials from this year and past years.

00:13:35   If you are already a member, you can log into memberfall and you can get this feed from your

00:13:39   podcast page, but I'll also put a link in the show notes of this episode. So you can just tap it,

00:13:43   log in and subscribe to it straight away. If you haven't signed up yet, go to getupgradeplus.com

00:13:49   right now, and you'll not only get the RPG special, you'll also get access to upgrade plus,

00:13:55   which has longer episodes of upgrade every week with no ads. We really love putting this special

00:14:01   together. Came out great. There's a lot of work from everyone. And I think it's really come,

00:14:06   it's really shows and we hope you enjoy it. We're going to have a trailer at the end of the episode

00:14:10   today, so you can hear what it's going to be all about. Go sign up, getupgradeplus.com and you can

00:14:16   get all of it. Yep. Come for the bathrobe, stay for the squirrels. Indeed. You'll understand what

00:14:21   that means. If you listen. Should we talk about some upstream headlines before we move on today?

00:14:28   Yeah, there's so much going on with Apple, but we need to do a little check in on upstream

00:14:33   because there were, I keep sending you links and things keep happening and we need to talk about

00:14:39   them. But I wanted to start with Jeff Bezos as television development executive because it made

00:14:47   me laugh and laugh. This is Jeff Bezos. This is a tweet we'll put in the show notes from Peter Kafka

00:14:55   talking about Brad Stone's new book, Amazon Unbound, and about why Amazon's original attempts

00:15:03   to launch a TV service were maybe a little bit off kilter because in part it was Jeff Bezos who had

00:15:12   decided that, I'm just going to quote it here. "Look, I know what it takes to make a great show.

00:15:17   This should not be that hard. All of these iconic shows have basic things in common." And then he,

00:15:23   off the top of his head, began rattling off the secret formula to making a successful TV show,

00:15:28   including a heroic protagonist who experiences growth and change, a compelling antagonist,

00:15:33   wish fulfillment, moral choices, diverse world building, urgency to watch next episode,

00:15:38   oh man, I'd love me some urgency, civilization, high stakes, humor, betrayal, and positive

00:15:44   emotions like humans feel, love, joy, hope, et cetera. Boy, Jeff Bezos has solved television.

00:15:52   Anyway, yeah. - It's like, okay, like, yeah, you're right on those things, but it's not like a recipe.

00:15:59   - No. - It's not how it works. - What I love about this is that it's the, like,

00:16:04   an archetypal version of the suit of the studio, like the overseer, giving notes to creative people.

00:16:12   Look, this is simple, people. Why don't you get it? I have a list. I'll just rattle it off off the

00:16:19   top of my head. I'm a guy who runs an online shopping site, but even I know you got to have

00:16:25   those positive emotions and the moral choices and the diverse world, come on, people. This is,

00:16:30   it's easy. So stick those things in there. And then apparently the story goes that

00:16:36   apparently they would be in development meetings for prime video shows and people would be

00:16:43   challenged about, did their thing fulfill all of the checkboxes of Jeff Bezos's map to successful

00:16:51   television. And if it didn't, they had some explaining to do. - Unbelievable. This book

00:16:56   seems like it's probably getting pretty good. - Yeah, yeah. Anyway, so Jeff has got it solved,

00:17:01   everybody. Shut it down. Just listen to Jeff. - Can't wait for "The Lord of the Rings" show.

00:17:06   That's in production now. They've actually started. - Yeah, well, so I'm unclear on the timeline of

00:17:10   this, but what happened is that they actually replaced the development executive, the head

00:17:14   of Prime Video with a new development executive who is much more, well, I don't know more,

00:17:19   but who is very highly thought of, who's Jen Salke, I think is her name. And I suspect that

00:17:27   they have changed their planning a little bit, but still, Jeff wants what he wants. So if he says,

00:17:33   bring back the expanse, they're gonna do it. And they did it. So anyway, it made me laugh.

00:17:38   "Billionaire" has opinions about TV. - Dax Shepard's "Armchair Expert" podcast is going to become a

00:17:44   Spotify exclusive starting July 1st. As well as this, they're gonna be doing a first look

00:17:51   deal with Spotify for, 'cause the "Armchair Expert" podcast is now kind of like they created a whole

00:17:57   network of shows from it. And they're gonna get a first look deal with Spotify. "Armchair Expert"

00:18:03   has an estimated monthly audience of around 20 million. It's a huge show. And it is a show that

00:18:09   I feel I see Apple promoting a lot on the podcast store. 'Cause it's one of these shows that they

00:18:17   talk to lots of famous people. I think the last episode they had Prince Harry as a guest. It is a

00:18:22   huge, huge show. Probably getting up there alongside something like Joe Rogan. And so

00:18:29   Spotify have bought it. - I think you mean it was a huge, huge show. - Yeah. - Now it's going to be,

00:18:36   because just to be clear, this is a Spotify exclusive. It will be available to listen to

00:18:43   for free. You don't have to be a paid Spotify member. But you're not gonna be able to get it in

00:18:47   any podcast app. - Only on Spotify. So there you go. Another one. Another one bites the dust,

00:18:55   I suppose. - Yeah, I mean, it will be interesting to see, as it is with all of these things,

00:19:02   how much of their audience comes with them and how much of their audience is lost. And I think

00:19:06   Spotify, from Spotify's perspective, maybe not from Dax. Okay, how does this work? Dax Shepard and his

00:19:12   people, they get paid by Spotify, right? So what they get out of it is more money from Spotify than

00:19:18   they're getting on the open podcast ecosystem. What Spotify, why is Spotify overpaying? Well,

00:19:23   Spotify knows that they're gonna lose some percentage of the 20 million audience, but

00:19:28   they're going to keep, they're gonna gain a percentage of that, a lot of whom are not

00:19:32   currently using Spotify for podcasts, and they're gonna convert. And so Spotify is really just

00:19:40   spending money to acquire people listening to podcasts in the Spotify app, because then they're

00:19:46   in the Spotify app and then they've got them. That's the idea. And so good for Dax Shepard,

00:19:51   I assume, at least in the short term, because they're gonna, he and his crew are gonna get paid

00:19:58   probably overpaid by Spotify in order for them to do this, because they're gonna give up audience

00:20:02   in order to take money from Spotify. But the danger is that in the long run, Spotify doesn't want them

00:20:10   or they don't want Spotify, and they're gonna have to emerge from the cloak of Spotify and who's left

00:20:16   in their audience at that point. That's the downside of it. So I hope the check is big.

00:20:20   I guess the benefit that they have, as opposed to Gimlet and Joe Rogan, is they're not

00:20:26   selling everything. So they have other shows, right? And they will still have those. They're

00:20:31   still gonna be openly available. They have that first look deal for new shows, but there is still

00:20:37   a collection of things that they can produce on the free and open podcast market. It's just that

00:20:42   one show. - Right, right. If Spotify doesn't want other armchair shows, then they can just put those

00:20:47   out there. That's true. Good point. And it's the whole catalog too. So the whole thing is gonna go

00:20:53   gonna duck back behind the Spotify wall, whatever you want to call it, and not be available in

00:20:57   Apple Podcasts or Overcast or any other podcast player. - And it keeps getting bigger. AT&T is

00:21:04   going to spin off WarnerMedia and merge it with Discovery. So Discovery CEO David Zaslav will

00:21:13   run the combined business according to the announcement. - Hell of a Scrabble word. He's

00:21:17   got a Z and a V in his name. - I apologize. Executives from both companies will be in key leadership roles.

00:21:22   - Jason Kalar, who is the CEO of WarnerMedia, is not mentioned in any of these releases. So he's

00:21:26   out. Although this isn't gonna close until next year sometime, but he's out. And I feel for

00:21:32   all the people who are long-time Warner employees because they just got through this AT&T transition

00:21:38   and a bunch of hard changes. And here they are, they're back in the washing machine again for

00:21:43   another year where they're gonna get buffeted around by who knows what the deal is gonna be.

00:21:48   But this is interesting. This is AT&T saying, "Oops," about what they did when they bought

00:21:55   WarnerMedia. They already got rid of DirecTV. Now they're kind of getting rid of WarnerMedia.

00:22:02   But to be clear, I've already seen people sort of say, "Oh, well, they're selling it at a loss

00:22:07   and that's it." That's not what they're doing. They're actually gonna own like 70 some percent

00:22:13   of this combined company. And I would imagine that over time they can sell that off if they want to,

00:22:18   or it'll... But they're structuring their debt differently and they're getting it kind of off

00:22:22   their books and Discovery Media, which is for those who don't know, that's like the home of

00:22:28   the Discovery Channel and they own the Food Network and they own a bunch of other cable

00:22:32   channels and they have a Discovery Plus streaming service that they just launched. And David Zaslav

00:22:37   is actually fairly highly thought of, I believe, as an executive at this relatively... Trying to

00:22:42   navigate the waters with this relatively small company. And now he's apparently going to have a

00:22:46   much larger company to run. But it's interesting because I think Discovery was too small on its own.

00:22:53   I think Discovery was just kind of floating out there. - Especially Discovery Plus, right? Like,

00:22:57   especially the streaming service. - Yeah. Not that they didn't have some good stuff on it,

00:23:01   but again, it was not gonna be a must-see. And I would think that... I think in the long run,

00:23:09   it's obvious that this is all gonna get mushed together into one streaming service. It's a little

00:23:13   bit like... Honestly, it's a little bit like Disney Plus has National Geographic. They may bundle,

00:23:18   they may do HBO Max and Discovery Plus like Hulu and Disney Plus in the short run, but

00:23:23   they're gonna be combined in some way or other that benefits them. I don't know. It's really

00:23:30   interesting. There's a bunch of behind the scenes stuff here too. Like Jeff Zucker, who runs CNN,

00:23:35   said he was gonna leave at the end of the year, but it sounds like he didn't like Jason Kallar

00:23:42   and... But he's good buddies with the guy who owns Discovery. So is he gonna stick around and what

00:23:50   does that mean? I find CNN being a part of Warner Media and yet not being in any way on HBO Max,

00:23:57   another interesting thing of like, what do they do with their news properties and how does that

00:24:01   connect? I don't know. Already, it was kind of messy and now it's even more messy, but

00:24:08   in the end, this might be a pretty good combination. I think that there's a lot of...

00:24:15   I've seen a lot of speculation about some other company sweeping in and kind of like

00:24:19   eating this company or putting its assets in with this company in order to bulk up to fight Disney.

00:24:26   And I don't really see that. And I say that only... And I'm not a media industry insider.

00:24:32   - Jason, it's Hulu too, that would be a good point, right? - Yeah, electric Hulu, Hula Blue.

00:24:38   The problem is that at some point here, this consolidation can't go on

00:24:44   because you end up with like multiple US TV networks involved. And that's not like...

00:24:51   The competitive issues get bigger and bigger and you have to sell off more stuff. And

00:24:56   I've definitely seen speculation to that effect. But is it possible that this is just a way

00:25:02   to set this thing out there so that NBC Universal or Disney can come in and swallow it all?

00:25:07   I guess anything's possible, but I don't know. Anyway, the streaming wars continue.

00:25:12   And this is another big thing where two big companies are gonna squish their streaming

00:25:20   stuff together. But it also is AT&T sort of saying, "We don't actually wanna run

00:25:26   a media conglomerate." They'll own it, or at least they'll own a big chunk of it.

00:25:32   But they don't actually wanna run it. John Stankey, the CEO of AT&T, doesn't actually wanna run that

00:25:38   business. And David Zaslav wants to run that business. And John Malone, who owns Discovery,

00:25:45   likes that business. So this is an interesting way for AT&T to kind of like push it at arm's length

00:25:50   in the short term and probably sell off chunks of it in the long term in order to get their money

00:25:57   back. Very sad for HBO. This just feels very sad to me. Well, the only positive thing is that I

00:26:03   think Casey Bloys is still at HBO, right? Who is the creative director of HBO and HBO Max.

00:26:09   And I think that maybe is a positive now in the sense that maybe HBO will have a little more

00:26:16   stability with the AT&T guys kind of out of the way. But still, I feel bad. I think overall this

00:26:21   will be better for HBO, but I just feel like HBO has such a good history, track record, pedigree,

00:26:29   to have just been pushed around like this for a few years. That's what makes me sad.

00:26:34   - What's gonna be left when this stabilizes? And is HBO still gonna be HBO? Are they gonna have any

00:26:39   value having done all of this? I also wonder like HBO Max, just 'cause we love talking about the

00:26:45   names of streaming services. I wonder if this will be an opportunity for them to come up with a new

00:26:50   name for that service that does not use the HBO brand and allow HBO to go back to being just HBO.

00:26:57   I don't know. I mean, I don't think Discovery is a great brand either, to be honest. I think it's

00:27:04   kind of confusing, but we'll see what they do. But it's a big change in the streaming world. And

00:27:12   AT&T, for those who care about like getting HBO Max with their AT&T plans, I don't know what's

00:27:19   gonna happen with that in the long run, but AT&T is gonna own most of the company in the short run,

00:27:23   if this all gets approved, which will take a year.

00:27:25   - This episode is brought to you by DoorDash. You're craving Chinese tonight,

00:27:30   your friends want pizza, someone else is craving froyo. There's something for everyone with DoorDash.

00:27:36   DoorDash connects you with the restaurants that you love right now and right to your door.

00:27:40   And you can get the grocery essentials that you need with DoorDash too. You can get drinks,

00:27:44   snacks and other household items delivered in under an hour. Ordering is super easy. You just

00:27:49   open the DoorDash app, choose what you want from where you want and your items will be left safely

00:27:54   outside your door with their contactless delivery drop-off setting. They have over 300,000 partners

00:28:00   in the US, Puerto Rico, Canada and Australia. You can choose to support your neighborhood go-tos

00:28:05   or from some of your favorite national chains as well, like Chipotle, Popeyes and Cheesecake Factory.

00:28:11   I know that you're a big fan of DoorDash, Jason. Can you tell our listeners what they can expect

00:28:16   when they order from DoorDash? - What I like about DoorDash, well,

00:28:19   first off, I like about DoorDash that my daughter drove for DoorDash for a while and that was pretty

00:28:23   cool. And she would sometimes bring us food, which was nice. She's always been our personal DoorDash.

00:28:29   You can pre-order stuff. That's one of the things I really like about it that you can,

00:28:32   when you're not hungry, pre-order. This is my technique. I've told you about it before.

00:28:35   Order when you're not hungry, tell them when to deliver it and then your food will show up

00:28:40   at that time and you will not do what I do sometimes, which is order when you're hungry,

00:28:45   you over order. It doesn't come right away because they're gonna make it and then drive it to you and

00:28:50   that's not as good. So just set your, everybody agree in your family, like, when are we eating?

00:28:56   What are we eating? And then you do that like in the afternoon and then your dinner shows up.

00:29:00   - For a limited time, our listeners can get 25% off and zero delivery fees on their first order

00:29:06   of $15 or more. When you download the DoorDash app and use the code UPGRADE2021 in the US or UPGRADEAUS

00:29:13   if you're in Australia, that's 25% off up to $10 value and zero delivery fees on your first order.

00:29:19   When you download the DoorDash app in the app store and use the code UPGRADE2021,

00:29:23   or for our Australian upgradients, just use UPGRADEAUS. That is UPGRADE2021 for the US,

00:29:29   UPGRADEAUS for the upgraded Australians. For 25% off your first order with DoorDash,

00:29:34   subject to change, terms apply, our thanks to DoorDash for their support of this show and Relay FM.

00:29:40   - Myke, there's something here with me right now.

00:29:42   - Oh, I'm so jealous of you.

00:29:43   - Something I haven't revealed until now. I couldn't reveal until this very moment

00:29:49   that we post this podcast. It's an orange iMac.

00:29:52   - Are you recording on it right now?

00:29:54   - I'm not, it's right next to me.

00:29:55   - It's next to you, okay.

00:29:56   - It's over on the side. It's been watching us as we record this, remaining silent until now.

00:30:02   - How does it look?

00:30:03   - Oh, it looks good. It looks really good.

00:30:05   - The image is a fantastic.

00:30:06   - Orange iMac in my orange office.

00:30:08   - Yeah.

00:30:08   - Oh, it's so good. Yeah. I love the bright colors. They're so great. I appreciate,

00:30:14   we joke about it. I appreciate they're not for everyone. And I'm glad that Apple

00:30:17   makes a silver one. So they've got one that's neutral. That was not an option you had in the

00:30:23   early days of the iMac, right? Remember when Apple turned everything blue? Blue Power Macs and blue

00:30:28   iMacs and all of that. But to give the option to not have it be neutral and have it fit into your

00:30:34   color scheme of your room or just delight you with a color. And it is, it's delightful. The back of

00:30:42   that thing too, because it's flat now, it doesn't have the kind of taper to the bulgy part in the

00:30:48   middle. It's just completely flat. And it's got that big Apple logo on it. It's quite striking

00:30:54   from the back 'cause it's so bright. It's quite a thing to see.

00:30:57   - In your office, you actually would work with this computer 'cause you don't have your desk

00:31:02   to the wall, do you? - I don't. And so I was writing this review that is now up at Six Colors.

00:31:09   I actually plopped it down. I used the arm on my iMac Pro and swung it away and then plopped it down

00:31:14   and attached my keyboard. - Oh, very cute.

00:31:16   - And just sat here and wrote on it. And then, yeah, you get the, from the side and from

00:31:22   different angles, you see the bright. And then you see the bright color also on the stand, right,

00:31:26   on the little foot. It's bright there. Even if you're in front of it, that part of it is bright.

00:31:30   One of the things that I, in terms of just using it, that I hadn't really thought of,

00:31:34   and then as I was using it, I noticed that Apple, I think, had done a really good job with, is this

00:31:39   idea of creating a, it's almost like a gradient where you've got your bright stand and then you've

00:31:49   got that, the lighter, almost in this case peachy part that's above it that's on the chin. And then

00:31:54   you get that neutral gray border and then you get your screen. So that when you're working on it,

00:31:59   you can focus on the screen and not get distracted by the color, but the color is also there, but

00:32:07   it's not in the center of your vision. So I can't imagine that they didn't do a lot of thought and a

00:32:15   lot of testing about creating this kind of a thing that would allow them to bring color to the

00:32:20   experience of using an iMac without having it be so in your face that it became maybe even unpleasant

00:32:28   to use it because it was just screaming at you from all over your vision. You really kind of

00:32:32   lose it when you're focused on what you're working on. Obviously the iMac, it is a screen, right?

00:32:38   Like the whole computer is a screen. Now this screen is 24 inches. How did you feel about this?

00:32:45   Because you're used to 27 on your iMac Pro. What did 24 feel like? You know, it's a little smaller,

00:32:51   but I'm not sure I'm the best user of a 27 inch screen. Like I have had one for a long time now

00:32:59   since the 5k iMac came out, but 24 is nice. It's a four and a half K. So it's more than the

00:33:06   old 21 and a half inch iMac, but less than the 27 inch iMac. So yeah, it's a little bit smaller,

00:33:13   but I didn't find it small at all. It's a very nice, large, bright screen. It's sort of like,

00:33:19   one of the things I was thinking is that Apple gives us these screens now and they've become

00:33:25   almost old hat. Like yeah, they're bright and they've got wide color gamut and night shift and

00:33:31   all that stuff. Yeah, and they're so good that they've got, yeah, it's got true tone, right?

00:33:36   It's like, you know what screen this is. You know what it looks like. It's really good, but unless

00:33:40   you're out there trying to find like third party monitors that do what Apple's displays do, you may

00:33:46   not realize like, no, they're really good. They're very good at what they do. So yeah, I didn't find

00:33:52   the, it's smaller. It's way smaller on my desk. That was one thing that I found really funny about

00:33:58   it, but it's still a really generous screen. You can fit a lot of stuff on it. - What's the

00:34:04   resolution? Is it 4.5? Is that what they said? - 4.5, yeah. - And I assume that that is, gives

00:34:12   you more than enough screen real estate for stuff. - 4480 by 2520 in terms of pixels. It's a lot. And

00:34:18   then you can, you know, you can go to the displays and make it more space if you want to. And it

00:34:22   will shrink everything down a little bit and give you more space if you want that. Like again,

00:34:27   if you're somebody who wants the biggest possible display, this is not the biggest possible display,

00:34:31   but for somebody who is buying the low-end iMac, it's more display than has ever been in the low-end

00:34:37   iMac. And it's a very generous display. It's something that just, you know, not too many

00:34:41   years ago would have been an enormous display, not to mention the fact that it's also retina. So it's

00:34:46   high resolution and enormous. - Like that was TV sizes not too long ago, right? - Yeah. Oh yeah.

00:34:51   - The actual physical size, you know, you mentioned it's smaller. Is it, the thinness of the computer

00:35:01   does that strike you as impressive? Do you really feel much about that when you see it? - I absolutely

00:35:06   think it's impressive. I used it all over my house, right? I used it at a desk, at my wife's

00:35:12   desk. I used it at my desk. I used it at a table in my office and I used it on the bar, actually,

00:35:16   bar top of our kitchen and sat on a bar stool. And a few things I noticed. So like when I was

00:35:24   at the bar, I stood for some of it and sat for some of it. And when I stood, I was higher up

00:35:30   and I would reach and tilt the display up. And anytime I positioned it like that, tilting the

00:35:36   display or something, you can feel, first off, the fact that on an Intel iMac, it's narrow at

00:35:44   the edge, but then it immediately is trailing away and it's curving away. And this is not like that.

00:35:49   This is an absolutely flat surface. It feels nicer to touch it. And then positioning it is like,

00:35:55   I mean, 'cause it's less than 10 pounds. So positioning it is actually really easy.

00:36:02   So I do notice it. I get what people have criticized out before in making iPads,

00:36:08   or not iPads, iMacs thinner and lighter, like it's a big iPad, which is kind of what it is now,

00:36:13   and saying, "Well, you know, you just put it on your desk and then you don't worry about it

00:36:16   anymore. So why do you care if it's big and heavy and stuff?" It's like, "Well, yeah, that's true,

00:36:20   although setting it up is easy." Moving it around is easy. I feel like they've also designed this

00:36:24   thing so that you can move it around. So you can say, "Why don't we put it over here? Why don't we

00:36:29   put it over there in a house?" Something like that, where you can change the context if you

00:36:34   want to. But you can also, when you take it out of the box, like it's less than 10 pounds. It's not

00:36:40   bulky at all. And you lift this thing up and put it on a desk and then tilting it to adjust it.

00:36:45   I imagine that if you put this on a VESA mount and put it on an arm, that it would adjust like

00:36:52   a dream that way too. I like that you moved it around a lot, because it gave you the ability

00:36:59   to see it in those different spaces. Because, I mean, honestly, color-wise, it looks different

00:37:05   in those environments, right? Like it suits different environments differently. And I think

00:37:09   that it was refreshing to see it in different places. And also it's fun because you get to

00:37:12   test out the weight of it. But you mentioned about the VESA arm. What was the viewing height like

00:37:17   in practical terms? Like how do you feel the ergonomics of the machine are having used it?

00:37:21   I think, yeah, I don't know. I mean, it depends on your setting, right? Like, so at my desk here,

00:37:30   it was lower than my screen usually is. So I was using it sort of tilted up a little bit.

00:37:38   I would probably, if it was on an arm, I would probably float it a little bit higher on my desk.

00:37:42   And that's one of the unfortunate things about it not having an adjustable arm,

00:37:46   is that they can tell us that they looked at ergonomics and all of that. And that's great.

00:37:51   But different bodies need different height for good ergonomics on that. And because it's not

00:37:59   adjustable, this beautiful orange thing in some circumstances, or whatever color you choose,

00:38:04   is going to be on a dictionary or something, which is just like, it's not great, but that's what

00:38:09   people do. So it's too bad that it's not adjustable. I think that that's a failing of it. But,

00:38:13   you know, but I used it and it was fine. In the long run, I would have wanted to be higher.

00:38:17   Look, we know there are things you can do. You can put it on books or whatever. You can put it

00:38:23   on a stand thing that you can buy to raise it up, which is what I do with my iMac Pro and I've done

00:38:27   for a long time. So I have something that sits underneath the foot. I think I already said this,

00:38:31   but like 12 South will undoubtedly come out with color matched aluminum stands for every one of

00:38:37   these iMacs, right? And that's fine. It's just Apple could have solved this by building a better

00:38:44   stand and they chose not to. It's the same iMac stand more or less that they've had all along.

00:38:48   I hope that the iMac Pro honestly has some kind of option akin to the Pro display. Not $1,000,

00:38:57   right? Not $1,000. No. But something. Yeah, and an option would be fine, right? Just to say that you

00:39:02   could you can get this with the adjustable height or the standard height or a VESA mount and you

00:39:07   could choose. That would be great and people who care about the height could pay extra for it. I

00:39:11   think that would be fine. I want to read a little quote from your review that I loved. Okay. "At

00:39:16   least for the moment, Apple's essentially selling five different computers that are technically the

00:39:19   same. It just matters if you want a fanless 13-inch laptop, a 13-inch laptop with a fan,

00:39:24   a 12.9-inch touch tablet, a small headless computer, or a computer with a built-in 24-inch

00:39:29   display. They're all basically the same product in slightly different shapes and sizes." If you

00:39:34   read this five years ago, you would assume that the worst had happened. That Apple has put iOS

00:39:42   and everything. You know what I mean? You read this out of time and you would assume something

00:39:46   bad had happened. But in our timeline right now, the M1 is so good. This is actually a very good

00:39:52   thing. Yeah, it is. It is important to keep in mind as we did last fall that the M1, although it has

00:39:59   caused sort of leaps in performance over the computers that it's replacing that were from

00:40:04   Intel, it's a low-end processor. It's Apple's first Mac processor and it's going in low-end

00:40:12   models. This is the low-end iMac. It was going in the Mac Mini, the low-end version. They still

00:40:18   sell the Intel version. It was going in the MacBook Air. It was going in the lesser of the two 13-inch

00:40:24   MacBook Pros. This is the low-end Mac processor. There's more to come, but this is such a leap for

00:40:37   those low-end systems that it's, yeah, it is a good thing. Like all of them, if you compare this,

00:40:44   the performance scores of this to the 21, even the specced out 21 and a half inch iMac that was using

00:40:51   the fastest processor, Intel processor you could put in it, it's faster. Like, it's faster and it's

00:40:56   cooler and I can't get the fan to make noise because it doesn't make noise. It doesn't have

00:41:04   heat problems. It's just, it's the same story you've heard before. If you've read about those

00:41:09   other M1 Macs, this is just that, except the big story here is that they also redesigned the outside,

00:41:15   which they didn't do for the other ones. Let's talk about the peripherals a little bit because

00:41:20   they are very exciting. There are so many. They look so good. Oh my god. They do. They're really

00:41:26   good. Rounded corners and stuff. I'm still mad about the, that they didn't. Every other keyboard

00:41:30   they've introduced in the last two years has brought back the inverted T keys and these

00:41:34   compact keyboards didn't. They still got full-size left and right arrows. I don't understand it,

00:41:39   but the fact that they're color matched even down to the, just the little metal band that's around

00:41:44   the back and the sides of the magic track pad, like that they went to the trouble that that's

00:41:49   color matched aluminum. The underside of the mouse, so when you plug it in by stabbing it

00:41:55   with a lightning port, it's very colorful. Color matched lightning cables. And yeah, it's, it's a,

00:42:03   so it's an orangey, uh, you know, woven cable braided cable cover. Uh, it's clearly the

00:42:12   nicest lightning cable ever made by Apple and it's peach. Mine's peachy. They're going to go for good

00:42:17   money on eBay. Those cables. Well, yeah. And this is, this is, yeah, you wonder about the future and

00:42:22   we have more to say about this later, but we wonder about the future of, of Apple's color plan.

00:42:27   And if they've got, this is going to be rolling out everywhere and this is where it starts. But,

00:42:32   uh, the fact that the, yeah, so the, the, the magic track pad is, uh, it's got more, it's got a

00:42:38   more curved corners and is a little bit lower than the old magic track pad, right? Because it,

00:42:46   they matched the height and the angle of the keyboards. They're all exactly the same. So

00:42:52   if you put the track pad and the keyboard touching each other, they are the same kind of profile now.

00:42:57   Exactly. Are they the same depth? Yeah. Huh? It's like, why, you know, just cause we're Apple,

00:43:04   you know, like that's one of those things. It's like, why did you do that? Looks nice.

00:43:07   Looks nice. I can't imagine that all of the reasons are going to make sizes,

00:43:12   all that kind of stuff would mean that you should have those two things the same. I could imagine

00:43:16   them being different for different reasons. And they had to rebuild the magic track pad,

00:43:19   right? Which hasn't, you know, magic track pad two, which they haven't. And it's, it's largely

00:43:23   the same. You wouldn't really tell the difference. It's just, but they still had to make it different.

00:43:27   And they all have to be in all the different colors. I want to mention the touch ID because

00:43:32   what they do with the touch ID is really clever. We've been speculating for a long time about how

00:43:36   do you do wireless touch ID with a Mac? How would you do that? And the answer is, and there's a tech

00:43:43   note up about it now, but the answer is it says, okay, you want to set up the touch ID. Here's what

00:43:48   you do. Double tap on the power button on the back of the iMac. What? Wait, what? That's what it's

00:43:55   doing. So to do touch ID, what it needs to do is verify it pairs that keyboard with that Mac.

00:44:04   You double tap. Double tap on the power button. And that doesn't turn the computer off? No.

00:44:09   Cause I guess you have to hold it, right? To go off. Yeah, yeah, right. So they built this other

00:44:15   thing in. Weird. So you double tap it and then it pairs it with the touch ID sensor on it. And then

00:44:20   what happens is the touch ID sensor is only sending back what it's reading. It's all processed in the

00:44:26   secure element. So the keyboard doesn't know your fingerprint. The keyboard just knows what it sees

00:44:31   on your finger when you lay it on the touch ID and sends that back to the Mac. Presumably that's

00:44:36   encrypted. And that's why you're doing the double tap is that you're getting them to pair. But the

00:44:41   analysis of it that verifies that it's your fingerprint is happening inside the secure

00:44:46   element inside the M1. I think it's just strange to me that plugging in the cable

00:44:52   wouldn't do the pairing. No, because they, I think the idea there is that it's a Bluetooth keyboard.

00:44:58   So the idea is that it's going to be wireless probably. And they want to have faith that it's

00:45:03   the right keyboard that is for this Mac and that they're connected together. And that they're not

00:45:11   inseparable, but like, this is the thing that verifies that that is my keyboard and that we

00:45:16   are talking to each other and that sets up, I believe, their secure connection to one another

00:45:20   for touch ID purposes. And do you only do this once? Yeah. Okay. I mean, presumably if you added

00:45:25   a different keyboard or maybe if you wiped the drive or something, you'd have to redo it. But

00:45:30   basically, yes. That's wild. That's so wild. Yeah, it's pretty wacky. Also, we talked about the

00:45:35   lightning cable, that braided lightning cable. The setup process has you, which I think they've been

00:45:41   doing for a while now, but it's very much like, why does the lightning cable there? Well, the

00:45:44   lightning cable is there to pair the keyboard and the mouse or the trackpad with the device. So you

00:45:49   boot it and it says, plug in the cable, now plug it into your keyboard. Now you have a keyboard.

00:45:54   Now plug it into the trackpad. Now you have a trackpad. Right? Like that's how that works.

00:45:58   So you need to have that one cable because they want to do the easy pairing with the plug to pair,

00:46:03   but they also made it this very pretty. And then it's yours to charge, right? You've always got it

00:46:07   to charge them up. Yeah. And you do an initial charge and all of that. Yeah, it makes sense.

00:46:11   When you plug it in, it's going to look good while it's charging, which I really genuinely appreciate.

00:46:15   That's right. Cause it's going to be orangey if it's orange or greeny if it's green.

00:46:18   The other braided cable of course is the power cable that goes on the back that attaches

00:46:22   magnetically, which is not mag safe because remember mag safe means it's easy to tear it off.

00:46:28   And this one is hard. It's I would, I would say it's actually harder to pull it out than it is

00:46:33   to pull the power plug out from my iMac Pro. This is mag safe max or mag safe pro. Well,

00:46:38   it's not, it's, it's mag unsafe. It's mag attached. It's super attached. Well, that makes it extra,

00:46:44   it's safe, but in a different way. I guess so. So you pull, so when you, when I've got the little

00:46:48   screen tilted and I pull on that power plug and what happens is the screen comes all the way back

00:46:53   to fully vertical, at which point it can't pivot anymore. And only at that point, if you, if you

00:47:00   pull hard on it, will it disengage the magnet? You really have to give it a real pull to disengage it.

00:47:05   Apple says it's as much, I think it's more force than the friction that's in the standard power

00:47:12   cable and in like my iMac Pro. And I've accidentally pulled out the iMac Pro cable more than once. And

00:47:19   I, I would feel more confident with this cable being robust. It is a very powerful magnet.

00:47:27   >> You try the ethernet? >> Yeah, it's, it's, it, it sped up

00:47:31   all of my transfers when I plugged in ethernet into the power plug. I, I do say in the review,

00:47:36   I love that this is a direction for Apple. I love the idea of getting things off of desks

00:47:42   and making the desk more, especially if you've got this pretty colorful iMac, getting things off your

00:47:46   desk. Like a lot of us nerds do this anyway, where we, where we try to route things off our desk.

00:47:51   I've got a USB hub attached under my desk so that I can reduce the number of cords that are running

00:47:56   from my computer across the desk. And I have a bunch of other stuff hiding under my desk, right?

00:48:02   So I like this idea of getting power and ethernet off the desk and you just have the one cable.

00:48:07   I want them to do more with this. This is the place where like in the long run, I want them to

00:48:12   do data on there too. I really want them to put USB ports on there. They don't have to be Thunderbolt,

00:48:18   they could just be USB. But like if you've got other stuff, if you want to plug, you know,

00:48:23   a keyboard in or something, you run it under the desk. If you want to plug, really, you know,

00:48:28   anything you can think of, a U.S. or a UPS power supply, you could do it that way. You could do my

00:48:36   little podcast microphone. Like there's all sorts of things you could plug in that way. And it would

00:48:40   all happen under the desk because cable management is a thing. And this could be even more than it is.

00:48:46   But what it is, is pretty impressive. And again, I'll say, because it's not magsafe, you're not

00:48:52   unplugging this thing. It stays attached. So I don't think there's the worry about like, if you

00:48:56   have your backup hard drive attached to the power brick, I don't think there's a worry about data

00:49:01   loss because this is, you're not unplugging this. It's different with magsafe, right? If you have a

00:49:07   hard drive attached to a power brick with magsafe, that's bad because magsafe is going to pop off

00:49:14   when there's any force attached to it. That would be the idea. But that's not the idea of this thing.

00:49:19   So I like it. It's pretty nice. It is true. I gave it a try. Depending on exactly how I wire it,

00:49:26   when I put my desk in a standing configuration, it kind of barely touches the ground. It's really

00:49:32   close. And if the cable is kind of off to the right just a little bit, it doesn't touch the

00:49:39   ground. But the truth is, if I were to have an iMac like this on my desk, the power brick would

00:49:46   probably be attached to the underside of my desk, not laying down on the floor. That's the truth.

00:49:54   - We gotta talk about the webcam. How's the quality?

00:49:57   - Well, it's the same webcam as in the 27-inch iMac and my iMac Pro. It's the 1080 webcam.

00:50:06   - Which is the best that they've done.

00:50:07   - Best they've done on the Mac. Best they've done on the Mac. And I want to come back to that point

00:50:12   because I have some complaints here. But I also had them side by side, in the same lighting

00:50:19   conditions, side by side, my iMac Pro and the iMac, 24-inch iMac. Apple talks about how Apple's

00:50:29   image processing helps the image be better. They are not kidding. The image out of the iMac is way

00:50:37   better than the image out of my iMac Pro. It's way better. And that's not because of the camera.

00:50:42   It's the same camera. It's because of the image processing, that they're able to do better things

00:50:46   in terms of dealing with low light conditions and having the tone be more even. It's still a 1080

00:50:53   webcam, but they're doing a lot of smart processing and the quality of it is pretty good.

00:50:58   - But it should be better.

00:50:59   - Well, that's the thing, right? Apple announced this product along with the iPad Pro. And the

00:51:08   iPad Pro has a 12-megapixel ultra-wide camera on the front. And it has center stage, which auto

00:51:18   crops and follows you around and uses that image processing to recognize faces and zoom in and out

00:51:24   and all of those things that we all saw on the demo, right? If ever there was a feature for the

00:51:28   iMac, it's that feature. - What makes you say that?

00:51:31   That's interesting. - The thing is, if you need to adjust

00:51:33   where your iPad is for doing a video conference, you just move it, 'cause it's an iPad. But an iMac,

00:51:42   if it's sitting on a desk or sitting in the corner of a room or something, you're probably not gonna

00:51:47   do zoom with grandma and grandpa. And even though it's relatively easy these days with this light,

00:51:54   you know, less than 10 pounds iMac to do it, you're probably not gonna disconnect all your

00:51:58   peripherals and unplug your iMac and lift it up and move the papers out of the way and then put

00:52:03   it over where the family is sitting and then run an extension cord and boot up the iMac and get into

00:52:09   zoom with grandma and grandpa, right? You're just not gonna do that. The iMac is going to be by its

00:52:14   very nature less mobile than a mobile device. And yet center stage is on the iPad, a mobile device.

00:52:22   And I'm sure center stage is gonna be great, I'm sure, but why is it not on the iMac? And I think

00:52:30   this is just honestly, this is that Apple is not, I don't know whether it's Apple keeping things a

00:52:38   secret or whether Apple is getting its product releases kind of out of step and the iMac was

00:52:44   being built too soon or they prioritize that software on iPad OS, but like it can't be the

00:52:52   camera 'cause this is an iMac. I'm sure they could fit the camera that's in the iPad Pro in

00:53:00   this iMac. I'm sure they could. And it can't be the processor, it's the same processor.

00:53:06   I guess it could be the software, but not only could it be the software, but now the hardware

00:53:12   on these things is locked in, it's a 1080 webcam. It's not the ultra wide thing that allows the iPad

00:53:19   Pro to do all that center stage stuff. So it's kind of a missed opportunity. And maybe we'll see

00:53:24   that camera in the bigger iMac, that would be great, but like, ah, it's such a missed opportunity.

00:53:30   This is a perfect, the low cost iMac put in a family room somewhere and have center stage

00:53:37   as a feature. It would be perfect and it's just not there. So it's a nice webcam. They're probably

00:53:43   right in saying it's the nicest webcam on the Mac ever because of the combination of the hardware

00:53:48   and the software. But it's also, it just strikes me as being a huge missed opportunity. They've

00:53:53   got the technology, it's in the other product that they announced the same day, but it's not

00:53:59   on the Mac, it's on the iPad. And I just think it's bad for the Mac that Apple made that decision.

00:54:05   And it also exposes something about Apple's product development that they had a feature

00:54:11   like that and they either chose not to put it in the Mac or they were so out of sequence that

00:54:16   the Mac just couldn't get it. And it's too bad either way. And it hurts more when you see

00:54:21   these new webcam features going into other products.

00:54:24   Yeah, this continues to be an issue. It's going to continue to be an issue for a while. I expect

00:54:33   that this stuff is going to start improving because they're getting so much pressure from

00:54:36   people about it. We're talking about it here and every reviewer is going to talk about it as well.

00:54:42   This has always been mentioned, but it's not really been much of a thing. It's like,

00:54:46   "Oh, this is what the webcam looks like. Okay, we'll move on." But the last nearly two years,

00:54:51   18 months, I should say, this world has really shown that we need this stuff to just be better

00:55:00   and we want it to be better. It cuts both ways to the M1 by putting the M1 in Macs and iPads.

00:55:08   It does make us, I think, more fairly ask Apple, "Why does this device do this and this other

00:55:14   device doesn't?" And it cuts both ways in the sense that we're doing that a lot with the iPad, right?

00:55:18   When they announced that iPad, we had a lot of conversations about, and really since 2018,

00:55:24   about the stuff that iPadOS doesn't do, that the Mac can do. And it's not the power because

00:55:30   the processor is the same now. But it goes both ways. And here it is cutting the other way,

00:55:36   which is, "Why does the Mac not have this feature that's in the iPad?" It's better for the Mac. It's

00:55:43   a better fit for the Mac than the iPad. The iPad, that's a really whizzy feature, but the iPad,

00:55:48   you can move it and point it in the right direction. You can't really do that with an iMac.

00:55:53   Maybe there's some, I mean, if I was going to argue the other point, maybe people,

00:55:59   those kinds of times when family video calls are more done from mobile computers than fixed

00:56:05   computers and that's why you might want it, I don't know. Nevertheless, this is a feature

00:56:08   that should be everywhere because it's just really good. Yeah, and that brings me to a larger point,

00:56:12   which is just about how Apple views the iMac. And we've been seeing this, and upgrade listeners

00:56:17   have been seeing it, since we talked the first time, since I interviewed Colleen Novielli,

00:56:23   because that was the first time I really noticed Apple trying to put the iMac in a different kind

00:56:30   of context, right? When the iMac was first created, home computers, you would have a computer in your

00:56:36   home. That was the idea. It was still in the era back in '98 where really you wanted a home

00:56:43   computer for everyone in the home and you park it somewhere and that's the computer and everybody

00:56:48   uses it. But today, and even a few years ago when we had that first conversation with Colleen,

00:56:54   everybody's got mobile devices, right? There are tablets maybe, you got your iPads, you got phones,

00:57:02   two-thirds, three-quarters of the Macs Apple sells are laptops. So what's the role of the iMac?

00:57:08   It's obviously very different than it was back in the day. And over the last few years, talking to

00:57:14   Colleen, seeing how Apple puts this in context, you get the idea that Apple really is trying to

00:57:20   show you sort of like the scenarios where the iMac is used or can be used. And so it's tidbits like

00:57:28   in hotels and offices and public spaces where they need a computer. And this is a pretty computer,

00:57:34   now even prettier because you can choose your color, and it goes at the front desk and people

00:57:40   see it and it says, you know, we have a sense of style and we're not a fly-by-night operation

00:57:44   because we could afford a computer, whatever. But in the home, it's like, well, how do we do this?

00:57:52   And I think the answer is, you know, they're pitching it as things like you can have a big

00:58:00   screen because sometimes you want a bigger screen than your laptop or your iPad or your iPhone can

00:58:06   give you. Like, which is weird to think of the reason you buy an iMac is because it's got a big

00:58:12   screen because you can do multitasking, right? But like there is some truth to that. And I think

00:58:16   Apple hopes that the iMac will fill a niche in terms of kids who don't have their own devices

00:58:22   or families that have some other devices, but there's work that is better done on big screen

00:58:28   rather than like a laptop screen. Or there are contacts, contacts where having a home computer,

00:58:36   a desktop computer is a better fit for you than using your laptop or using your iPad.

00:58:43   Some of their examples like a kitchen iMac or something, it's like, I don't know,

00:58:47   like I wouldn't do that. I would use my laptop or my iPad or my phone in the kitchen. I probably

00:58:54   wouldn't put an iMac in the kitchen. But there are other scenarios where I think it makes sense.

00:58:58   And that's where the center stage conversation comes in too is like, if you do have an iMac

00:59:03   in your family room or living room or something like that, it's got the big screen, it may actually

00:59:08   be the best place to do a FaceTime conversation or a Zoom meeting or whatever, because it's got

00:59:13   the big screen, but it doesn't do the center stage part. So I don't know. It's interesting to see

00:59:20   Apple kind of try to find its way of like, what are the, it has to explain what are the scenarios

00:59:24   where you would use an iMac. And that's something that we didn't ever have to do back in the day.

00:59:28   But today it really is like, well, I've got all my mobile devices. Why would I buy an iMac? And

00:59:33   the fact is only a little fraction of the Mac market is the iMac. It's probably, I don't know,

00:59:41   20%, 15% of the Mac market is all the iMac. But that it's still a valuable, as we know from talking

00:59:48   to Colleen, still a very valuable and important part of Apple's business. And with this iMac,

00:59:53   it feels to me like they're leaning into those scenarios. They're like, okay, we know that the

00:59:57   iMac isn't everywhere now, but where is it being used? And how can we make a better iMac for that?

01:00:02   So the fact that it's lighter and the fact that it's colorful, those all kind of factor in. The

01:00:07   fact that it's got a bigger screen, probably too, because it helps differentiate it from your

01:00:11   13 inch or 15 inch laptop screen or 16 inch laptop screen that you're using.

01:00:15   Do you feel like there's anything missing from this iMac?

01:00:18   Well, I mean, it's a first cut at it. So presumably the literate and some of this stuff will come in.

01:00:24   I wish there were the ports on the power plug. I think that would be a fun way to expand the

01:00:29   getting, you know, the cleanliness of the top of your desk.

01:00:32   How do you feel about the IO in general?

01:00:34   Yeah, the port situation on the back is weird. The low end model only has the two Thunderbolt ports,

01:00:39   which is probably fine. It's not great, but it's fine. It's the low end model. The higher end model

01:00:44   has the two additional USB 3, USB C ports, which leads to that weird situation where two ports are

01:00:52   labeled for Thunderbolt with little lightning bolts and two aren't. And Apple generally,

01:00:57   in its history, it's been very rare that you've seen a Mac that has two ports that are identical

01:01:02   that do different things. It happens, but the fact that they have to label them, it's been a long

01:01:07   time, I think, since they've had something like this dramatic, but that's how they had to do it.

01:01:12   It's the M1. The M1 can't do more than two lanes of Thunderbolt. So here we are. I'm glad it's

01:01:19   still got a headphone jack. I'm glad it still supports ethernet, even though it doesn't support

01:01:24   it. By default, on the low end, you can pay for, on the low end model, you can pay for not just a

01:01:30   better keyboard with touch ID, but the low end model, you can also pay to get the brick that's

01:01:34   got ethernet on it if you want that. But, you know, the webcam, while good, I think could be

01:01:40   better. But it's pretty great. Like, it's an M1 computer, and all the great things we said about

01:01:48   the M1 computers last fall is true for this one too. Plus, it's got this new design that it's just

01:01:53   so nice. I know people are skeptical about the gray. It's not white. It is a light gray border

01:02:00   around the screen. But I think they did a pretty good job with it. I will say it is more of a light

01:02:07   mode experience than a dark mode experience. It's fine in dark mode, but in light mode,

01:02:12   it really works having the neutral gray around the border. But again, presumably, there's another

01:02:19   iMac, the high-end iMac that has not been touched yet that is also to come and will perhaps be a

01:02:25   variation on this. But it's, you know, if you're in the market for a desktop Mac, like, and you're

01:02:34   not a pro, obviously this is the product for you. And the fact that it's here and it's got that M1

01:02:40   power that's going to make it so much better, right? Like, it's not designed for spinning hard

01:02:43   drives anymore. So that's out. It's all SSD as it should be. It's quiet. It's light. You know,

01:02:52   I don't know, there's a lot of really great stuff about this computer, even though I can quibble.

01:02:57   The quibbles are good because it gives Apple something to iterate on, right? You're never

01:03:03   going to get everything in there on the first iteration, but it's still a pretty impressive

01:03:07   display. If you think about it, Myke, this is the first Mac redesign we've seen in the Apple

01:03:14   Silicon era. This is the first M1 Mac, if you would think of it that way. That's how I kind

01:03:19   of think of it. Like, the other ones, they were Intel Max and M1 chips. Yeah, this is the first

01:03:23   Mac designed for M1, clearly. This is the first one of this new generation of products. And I

01:03:29   suspect they're all going to be like this from here on out. I don't think we're ever going to see

01:03:33   a retread of an Intel product again. Maybe there'll be a Mac Mini update or something like that,

01:03:39   but it sure feels like from here on out, they're going to be... They could make the Mac Mini

01:03:42   so cool, like, tiny, just like miniscule, like Apple TV size, you know what I mean? Like,

01:03:47   people have wished for something like that for years just because why not? They could. Will

01:03:51   they? Who knows? But it does feel like we've reached the... There was a break point between

01:03:57   last fall and this spring where we've shifted from the first ones get out the door and they look like

01:04:03   the old ones. And now we're going to start seeing those redesigns that it really is the computers

01:04:10   that were made for Apple Silicon. They weren't made for Intel. They wouldn't have worked with

01:04:13   Intel. And they had to wait for those designs to be on M1 or whatever comes next.

01:04:21   Will Barron This episode is brought to you by Squarespace,

01:04:24   the all-in-one platform to build your online presence and run your business. From websites

01:04:29   and online stores to marketing tools and analytics, Squarespace has got you covered.

01:04:34   They combine cutting edge design and world-class engineering, making it easier than ever to

01:04:38   establish your home online and make your ideas a reality. Squarespace has everything you need

01:04:44   to create a beautiful and modern website. You start with a professionally designed template,

01:04:49   and you use drag and drop tools to make it your own. You customize the look and feel, the settings,

01:04:54   even the products you could have on sale in just a few clicks. And all Squarespace websites are

01:04:59   optimized for mobile, so your content automatically adjusts so it's going to look great on every

01:05:03   device. You'll get free unlimited hosting, top of the line security and dependable resources to help

01:05:09   you succeed, like award-winning 24/7 customer support. If you need any help, Squarespace are

01:05:14   on hand. I actually had a question for Squarespace's support team a couple of days ago, sent in an

01:05:19   email, got one back super quick. They asked my question, really easy, fantastic service.

01:05:23   Squarespace have nothing to patch or upgrade. They even let you quickly and easily grab a great and

01:05:28   unique domain name, and they have everything you need for SEO and email marketing as well.

01:05:33   You can use Squarespace to turn your big idea into a new website, showcase your work with

01:05:37   their incredible portfolio designs, publish your next blog post, promote your business,

01:05:41   announce an upcoming event, and so much more. I think I've used Squarespace for basically every

01:05:46   single one of those things. It really is an amazing platform. Go to squarespace.com/upgrade

01:05:52   for a free trial today with no credit card required. And when you're ready to launch,

01:05:56   use the offer code UPGRADE to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

01:06:00   There's squarespace.com/upgrade and then the offer code UPGRADE to get 10% off your first purchase.

01:06:07   Thanks to Squarespace for their support of this show and all of Relay FM.

01:06:12   Oh Myke, there's so much Apple news, so much Apple news!

01:06:15   Music is about to change forever.

01:06:18   Like it did when the Beatles came onto iTunes. That was a day I'll never forget.

01:06:22   A day you'll never forget, Jason.

01:06:24   Never forget it, no.

01:06:25   It has been rumored over the last couple of weeks that there was going to be some kind of

01:06:28   high resolution audio tier or something. And there was, this is kind of strange,

01:06:33   a night before Apple announced it, they put a little teaser in Apple Music saying music is

01:06:39   about to change forever. It was like, oh okay, it's coming, it's coming. And then within,

01:06:44   I don't know, 12 hours or so, we got a press release. But I don't really know what to call

01:06:49   this. They haven't really given it a name.

01:06:51   No, higher quality music tiers or music content available within Apple Music,

01:06:58   because it's not an extra tier, it's not going to cost anything extra. I think what we would say is,

01:07:02   and I wrote a piece about this in Macworld in February and I totally nailed it. I just

01:07:06   want to say that. I got it exactly right. Because Spotify announced the high quality tier and it

01:07:11   left Apple alone as the only one that didn't do a high quality tier. And I thought, well,

01:07:16   that's not going to do it. But then I thought about their spatial audio stuff and I thought,

01:07:20   well, what they really should do is lean into doing some multi-channel spatial audio kind of

01:07:25   audio content, because that's nice. I have some 5.1 albums, I've got like five or six of these

01:07:33   DVDs that are albums mixed in in multi-channel and they sound great. And I thought, well,

01:07:38   with the spatial audio stuff Apple's been doing with movies, they could do that with music too.

01:07:44   And that's exactly what they did. So it's spatial audio with support for Dolby Atmos. My understanding

01:07:50   is, on an Apple TV, if you've got a Dolby Atmos system attached to your Apple TV and you play this

01:07:57   music once this launches, you're going to get full surround music, which I think is really cool.

01:08:04   But they're also doing various levels of lossless, which is interesting. They're going to do

01:08:11   lossless using Apple lossless, which starts at the CD quality, 16-bit, 44.1, but they say up to

01:08:21   24-bit at 48 kilohertz. And you have to opt in because it eats so much bandwidth, but they have

01:08:28   a super high quality 24-bit, 192 kilohertz, and you actually have to attach an external USB DAC,

01:08:35   a digital audio converter, in order to get that, because otherwise you couldn't hear it,

01:08:40   because Apple's DAC doesn't support that level of quality. So if you're Federico, you're fine.

01:08:45   If you're Federico, this is perfect for a high quality audio fan like Federico. I can't wait

01:08:50   for Connected this week. He's going to be so excited. It's going to be Federico mania on

01:08:54   Connected this week. So I think this is cool. Again, I think a lot of people can't tell

01:08:58   the difference between lossless and not, but some people can, and Apple just offering it and saying,

01:09:04   "Yeah, if you want to listen to it that way, you can," I think is really good. There are certain

01:09:07   circumstances. I think the spatial audio, you really can tell, and it's beautiful. It's not

01:09:12   for everybody, and it's a different kind of experience, but I can say for the handful of

01:09:18   5.1 audio DVDs that I have, I don't listen to them that often, unfortunately, because it's just,

01:09:25   the workflow isn't great. I'm hoping all of those will also eventually get in there. Everybody's

01:09:30   rustling through their catalogs of music for anything that's multi-channel so that they can

01:09:34   put it out here, but I love it. Listening in my home theater where I've got stereo speakers,

01:09:39   a center channel, and two rear channels is all I've got. I don't have a whole Dolby Atmos setup,

01:09:43   but you end up with the vocals isolated on the center speaker, and then you've got instruments

01:09:50   left, right, and then you've got more instruments rear, left, and right, and it's like you're inside

01:09:54   the music. Even a familiar album sounds totally different, partly because it's been mixed for

01:10:01   multi-channel, but partly because you can hear things you just couldn't hear before, because now

01:10:05   every speaker is playing a different portion of whatever it is you're listening to. It's really

01:10:10   good. I've got the first Crowded House album, I've got a Glenn Phillips album, I've got the Beatles.

01:10:16   Giles Martin did that 5.1 mix of a bunch of Beatles songs for the Cirque du Soleil show,

01:10:23   Love, and it sounds amazing, and then he's done several other Beatles albums in multi-channel that

01:10:31   sound great. Maybe if we're lucky we'll get that one. Yeah, and it'll be a day we never forget.

01:10:38   So there are some services that have done multi-channel so far, but Apple is going to be

01:10:44   really, I think Apple's weight will really drive this in the music industry and getting these

01:10:52   things into the catalogs, and I'm curious, I actually kind of wonder, I don't know if this

01:10:57   was detailed, all they said was that it'll work with all Beats and Apple devices that have the...

01:11:02   H1 or W1. This is really interesting. So Apple have said in the press release, "Dolby Atmos will

01:11:08   play by default on all devices of a H1 or W1 chip as well as using built-in speakers on other

01:11:14   devices." Right, like the iPad Pro has the four speaker system and all of that, yeah. But right

01:11:19   now, Spatial Audio is only available on AirPods Max and AirPods Pro, so I don't know what that's

01:11:27   going to be like. Is it going to be different quality? Are they going to bring Spatial Audio to

01:11:31   all of the H1 and W1 products? My guess is yes, and my guess is that it's even more than that,

01:11:36   because my understanding, and again, we'll find out more as this rolls out, but my understanding is

01:11:44   that the current Bluetooth implementation for Apple's wireless headphones won't generate lossless

01:11:56   quality audio. It's compressing it. So one question I have is, is Apple going to do a firmware update

01:12:04   for H1 and W1 chip headphones that enables a higher quality audio stream for certain Apple

01:12:11   hardware, right? Have they been holding in their back pocket a lossless or at least less lossy

01:12:19   Bluetooth mode that it's all part of that Apple AirPod secret sauce stuff? I wouldn't put it past

01:12:28   them, but it is also possible that if you're really going to want this, you're going to want it on

01:12:32   wired headphones, and there's an argument that the AirPods aren't going to really benefit from.

01:12:36   And they are using their own codec, and that might be why, right? So they may have done that.

01:12:42   Right. Is there an Apple lossless stream that's possible? Do they have the bandwidth to do that?

01:12:47   I don't know, but this is going to be complex. They're going to be different

01:12:51   things on different devices, but yeah, I would imagine, I'm looking forward to listening to

01:12:59   multi-channel interpreted by AirPods Pro, which I listen with, because I think that'll be kind of a

01:13:06   fun thing. But I think in a lot of cases, you're going to have lossless audio via plug-in, really

01:13:11   high quality plug-in headphones, perhaps depending on the level through an outboard USB DAC, whether

01:13:19   it's on a Mac or an iPad or whatever, just to get the highest quality if you want the super high

01:13:23   quality. And then, like I said, I'm also really thinking that this can be a great thing for music

01:13:27   listening in an Apple TV setup, where you've got really good speakers that do surround, whether it's

01:13:33   a soundbar or a full-on surround system, that's actually a pretty great place to experience music

01:13:38   that is multi-channel. So there's lots of different things here that, this is not one announcement,

01:13:43   right? It's like many different moving parts for different devices. It's two different things.

01:13:48   Yeah. And that is worth remembering. The lossless audio and the spatial audio are two parts of Apple

01:13:54   Music now. And the lossless is three different levels of it, including one you have to opt in

01:13:59   for that is mandatory that you have to have an external DAC to use. So it's, and then you've got

01:14:05   the H1W1 chip thing where, what's that look like and all that. This is obviously going to be in a

01:14:11   release that comes out around WWDC, right? Into the next release of the current version of the OS.

01:14:17   That's what they'll do to roll this out. But I'm excited by it. Yeah, it's 14.6, which will

01:14:24   be coming in June. I guess it will probably be the last major 14 release. So there is a potential

01:14:31   that not too long after this episode comes out, maybe there's a beta that actually has it.

01:14:35   You know, that might not be, that might be something that happens. You know, it's also

01:14:39   worth just again, like the way that they're rolling this out is different. So the lossless audio,

01:14:45   they're putting out millions of tracks and by the end of the year, it will be all 75 million songs

01:14:50   will be, they'll have lossless audio for. The spatial audio is going to be thousands of songs

01:14:56   at launch. They're going to be updating previous tracks and then new stuff's going to be coming in

01:15:00   and they're going to keep rolling it out and also doing like playlists and sections inside of Apple

01:15:05   Music to highlight the best kind of experiences with spatial audio. Ian in the Discord says that

01:15:12   Apple confirmed that Bluetooth streaming streams AC and so, you know, you won't get lossless on that.

01:15:19   I had kind of hoped that they would have a, especially for AirPods Max, they would have a

01:15:23   story for that. This is what they've said right now. I'm still holding out hope. Like you said,

01:15:26   because they could do something. There's like a rabbit that they could pull out of their hat for

01:15:30   some of their devices. It would be really silly if AirPods Max didn't support high quality audio

01:15:35   unless you plugged in a cable. But yeah, I also understand it because the whole infrastructure

01:15:39   of Bluetooth audio streaming is not built around high quality audio because it's, you got to stream

01:15:45   a lot of data and that kills your battery. It may be, and the way that I'm thinking about it,

01:15:50   I think for most people, a really good implementation of spatial audio will be more

01:15:55   of a fun experience than lossless. And I think that that's probably what they're going to bet on.

01:15:59   That the spatial audio experience on AirPods Max is going to be the best one because they have more

01:16:05   control there. And I bet that it's going to sound fantastic. And I would expect that that's probably

01:16:10   what Apple's betting on. The Space Gray peripherals that were introduced with the iMac Pro, so the

01:16:16   Magic Mouse, Magic Trackpad, and Magic Keyboard, they've all been discontinued. They're being sold

01:16:21   in the Apple Store now while supplies last, which is the same as the iMac Pro. However,

01:16:26   I went to the Mac Pro page today and it says that when you buy a Mac Pro, you will still get your

01:16:30   peripherals in silver and black. Yeah, they're kind of different, aren't they? Because they're

01:16:35   silver with the black accents, but the iMac Pro is just all space gray. Yeah, so I guess they're

01:16:40   reducing. This is so transparent, right? Like they're clearing this out of the pipeline because

01:16:45   they've got those seven different colors of, or sorry, six colors and then silver, of the Magic

01:16:54   products from the iMac, right? And those are clearly going to ultimately be available.

01:17:02   I mean, how could they not be? I would think, especially since they've got a Touch ID

01:17:07   thing. So yeah, I would think that they're just turning all of this over. I also would think that

01:17:15   if they do a color scheme that is not the bright color scheme for iMac Pro kind of thing or a high

01:17:22   end iMac, that they would do the color matching for those too. So this feels to me more like

01:17:27   they're just kind of clearing out the old thing and then making way for the new thing. I would be

01:17:32   surprised actually if, like the regular Magic keyboard doesn't look like the one that comes

01:17:37   with the iMac, the low-end iMacs, right? It's got curved edges and stuff that aren't there in the

01:17:43   regular ones. So clearly the keyboards are turning over and this is the first step there, is they're

01:17:48   getting rid of this bespoke space gray one. So if you want a space gray peripheral, get it now.

01:17:53   I just hope it means there's a new iMac Pro coming. That's just like the thing that I'm,

01:17:58   fingers crossed, on there was a report that the MacBook Pros could potentially be delayed to 2022.

01:18:04   I choose to reject this report personally because I just don't want to believe that it's true,

01:18:10   that they're being delayed. So I choose to reject that reality. I'm substituted with my own,

01:18:15   which is that we're going to get new MacBook Pros and iMac Pros in two weeks time or whatever.

01:18:20   That's what I have decided to believe and we will see in the future. While we're on that note about

01:18:26   color, so we spoke about the potential colors coming for the MacBook Air to replicate the iMac.

01:18:33   So Jon Prosser has now released some renders based on the information that he received

01:18:38   and this is also published on MacRumors. So the renders are kind of suggesting that we'll get on

01:18:46   the MacBook Air iMac colors, flat edges as you would obviously expect because that's Apple design

01:18:51   now. No taper, so it's kind of like a thinner MacBook Pro, right? Because the MacBook Pro has

01:18:58   no taper, it's just that kind of like slab basically. The keyboard will be white with

01:19:04   full-sized function keys like the iMac's keyboard. It's been a long time since there were full-sized

01:19:10   function keys on an Apple laptop. So that seems to have squished down the size of the trackpad a

01:19:15   bit, which is a peculiar thing. So I'm not sure about that myself, that part. It does feel like

01:19:20   this is, I think what he said is that they got this from somebody who had seen the aluminum parts

01:19:24   and only only from certain angles. So this is a, there's a lot of extrapolation going on here.

01:19:31   The bottom though, super intriguing to me, instead of the little circular feet in the corners,

01:19:37   two long vertical rubber feet down each side of the device. I think it looks kind of cool.

01:19:44   Looks like the bottom of a Magic Mouse except presumably not meant to slide around,

01:19:48   but actually hold it. You'd hope so. The exact opposite. It's designed similarly,

01:19:53   exact opposite. And then the, obviously the bezel is that white gray color. So from the iMac

01:20:01   24. So yeah, I mean, what we said last week still goes for me, which, and I wrote about this in Mac

01:20:07   World this week or last week too, which is if this is a MacBook replacing the MacBook Air, it's,

01:20:15   you know, I think, and then that's a marketing decision what they call it, but if this is that,

01:20:19   I'm intrigued by it. I think the idea that Apple is going to roll out the color scheme of the 24

01:20:25   inch iMac across other parts of its product line kind of makes sense and to make them sort of

01:20:31   consistent. So it wouldn't, it wouldn't shock me if this is what they're doing. So yeah, more color,

01:20:38   I say. - Yeah. And fingers crossed for this on everything. - I take it. I take an orange MacBook

01:20:45   Air or Mac book or whatever. That'd be really fun. - Oh my God. It's going to be weird when I

01:20:51   think I'll probably start making different purchasing decisions based on the colors

01:20:54   available on the computer, right? Do I go Mac book Air or Mac book Pro because I can get an orange

01:20:59   one? You know what I mean? That's going to be a very weird time, but I consider it a possibility,

01:21:04   honestly. - Yeah. Well, this is the danger. I mean, I have an iPhone 12 mini, um, for similar

01:21:11   reasons though, though, like the danger of having your pro colors be boring or non-existent and your

01:21:19   non-pro colors be fun is that you may be inducing people who might otherwise give you more money,

01:21:24   if you're Apple, to give you less money because they also want the fun. So that's the,

01:21:30   that's the danger there. - Do a good job, please. We'll be very happy. This episode is brought to

01:21:35   you by Ooni Pizza Ovens, the world's number one pizza oven company because they make surprisingly

01:21:40   small ovens that are powered by your choice of either wood, charcoal, or gas, letting you make

01:21:46   restaurant quality pizza in your very own backyard because Ooni Pizza Ovens are not only easy to use,

01:21:52   they're incredibly portable too. They're going to fit into any outside space and they can reach

01:21:57   temperatures of up to 900 degrees Fahrenheit, 500 degrees Celsius. This is going to enable you to

01:22:02   cook restaurant quality pizza in as little as 60 seconds. That high temperature is what separates

01:22:08   an Ooni Pizza Oven from a regular oven to really give you that excellent quality cook.

01:22:13   The most popular models is the, one of the most popular models I should say is the Ooni Coda 16.

01:22:19   This is a gas powered oven that will let you cook up to 16 inch pizzas and has an innovative L-shaped

01:22:24   burner at the back to give you even heat distribution. Ooni Pizza Ovens start at just $299

01:22:31   and they're free shipping to the US, UK, and EU, as well as the Ooni Coda 16, one of their other

01:22:36   most popular models is the Ooni Karu, which can use wood, charcoal, or gas to cook your pizza.

01:22:42   They also have a great app as well to help you perfect your dough recipe and give you loads of

01:22:46   pizza making tips. I will now turn over to resident pizzaiolio, I think that's how you say it, I

01:22:52   probably butchered that word, Jason Snell of the El Creo podcast. Jason, tell our listeners why the

01:22:58   Ooni gives you a really great pizza experience. Well, it is hot in there. It gets very, very hot,

01:23:05   hotter than your oven inside can get, which is why you should do this outside where you're not

01:23:10   going to set anything on fire because it's like 700 degrees Fahrenheit in there. But that means

01:23:16   you get this sort of scorched edges and the bubbly top and the pizza cooks through and gets all

01:23:23   crispy. And it's much more like what you would get in a wood-fired pizza oven at an actual pizza maker,

01:23:30   except at home. And that's what I like about it. So you should go check it out for yourself right

01:23:35   now and listeners to this show can get 10% off their purchase of an Ooni pizza oven. Just go to

01:23:40   Ooni.com that's O-O-N-I.com and use the code Ooniupgrade21 at checkout. While you're there,

01:23:47   you'll also find a great range of accessories from peels to cutters to oven tables. Everyone's

01:23:52   making pizza at home right now or everybody wants to and it's beginning into those warm summer months.

01:23:57   Ooni pizza ovens are the perfect tool for the job and they are incredibly high demand. So if you

01:24:01   want one, go right now. Ooni pizza ovens are the best way to bring restaurant quality pizza to your

01:24:06   own backyard. Go to Ooni.com and use the code Ooniupgrade21 that's O-O-N-I-U-P-G-R-A-D-E to

01:24:13   one for 10% off. Thanks to Ooni pizza ovens for their support of this show and Relay FM.

01:24:18   Let's do some hashtag #askupgradequestions.

01:24:23   First one comes from Anjay who asks, "Based on the early impressions, do you think that the

01:24:28   Brydge 12.9 Max+ will be a better buy than the Apple Magic keyboard?" We have not spoke about

01:24:35   this product at all. Brydge, we've spoken about them many times on the show, have a new type of

01:24:41   keyboard. It's called the Max+. I don't think they had a Max before. I don't know why they now have a

01:24:47   plus for the Max. It's a different kind of layout for them which I actually like. They've basically

01:24:54   made a kind of a laptop without the screen. So they've actually got a back case to it now. So

01:25:01   the iPad Pro sits in it with magnets as opposed to using those little clamps that you would slide it

01:25:07   into. And so overall you get this aluminium shell which has got the whole kind of keyboard built

01:25:12   into it. Brydge are now saying that their trackpads are comparable with Apple's trackpad,

01:25:17   with its gestures and stuff. They have new firmware for some of their stuff and they've

01:25:22   got a page on their website which shows all the available gestures.

01:25:26   If they're able to do what they're saying they're able to do with this firmware that they've got

01:25:31   upcoming, then this looks very intriguing as compared to a Magic keyboard. It's $249.

01:25:40   What do you think? Well, we talked about it here before so I'll just say it again. Apple's trackpad

01:25:47   firmware is without compare. They've spent decades refining it on their laptops and then with the

01:25:54   Magic trackpad on desktops as well. And third-party trackpad experiences on iPadOS are not as good.

01:26:07   Brydges is as good as the other third-party cases like Logitech that's got some iPad cases with

01:26:18   trackpad and that Apple has promoted. And I'll just say that even though Apple has promoted

01:26:23   those and mentioned those in press releases, Apple has not given them the Magic firmware.

01:26:26   They are still not quite as good. Their gestures aren't quite as good. I think that there's hope

01:26:34   that they could get better over time as they improve the firmware. But I could not in good

01:26:42   conscience say that any third-party trackpad, not just Brydge, any third-party trackpad is as good

01:26:48   as Apple's. Apple's is best in class. Apple's Magic keyboard also costs a lot of money and

01:26:54   this case is a lot less. So I think that's really the trade-off is you get something that

01:27:01   magnetically attaches. I used a pre-production version of this briefly and it snaps on with

01:27:09   magnets which is really nice. It gives you that full laptop feel that even the Magic trackpad

01:27:16   doesn't quite give you because it's got the little cantilever thing going on. The keyboard's nice,

01:27:21   the trackpad is big and good, but what you're losing is that Apple's trackpad feels exactly

01:27:32   like Apple's trackpad feels on all Mac laptops or with the Magic trackpad on Mac desktops.

01:27:39   It's the same experience. And the third-party trackpads aren't. They're a little bit lesser.

01:27:46   They're not terrible. They're okay. They're fine. But if you're somebody who has completely

01:27:52   internalized Apple's trackpad and uses it that way everywhere you go, like me, it's harder to switch

01:28:00   to this. That said, you can't really beat the price. It's remarkable because the truth is that

01:28:08   the Magic trackpad is for iPad. It's a very pricey accessory. Well, I will say there is only $50

01:28:14   difference now. Yeah, that's true. Like it's cheaper but this bridge is more expensive than

01:28:20   previous bridge keyboards. Yeah, it is. It is. And it's a much larger trackpad which is good. And you

01:28:25   have different function keys and stuff. Actually, you have function keys. Right, there's function

01:28:29   keys. And a lot of people didn't like the clip approach that the old bridge keyboards had which

01:28:33   I liked. I thought it was fine. But this one doesn't have that. Instead, it's snapping in

01:28:37   magnetically. But yeah, you know, honestly, it's about the ergonomics of it but I just have to be

01:28:43   honest and say even though I've supported bridge's products over the years, the trackpad stuff just

01:28:50   isn't as good as Apple's because Apple's trackpad firmware is just the best. That's bottom line.

01:28:58   It's the best. And then every now and then with a bridge trackpad or the Logitech one, I will make

01:29:04   a gesture or something and it will like my click won't be registered or the gesture won't be quite

01:29:08   right. And that's just because I have developed a trackpad using style that works with Apple's

01:29:18   firmware. Right? And then you take that out of the equation and you start asking yourself a lot of

01:29:21   questions about like, where do I put my fingers and when do I click and all of that. I'll also

01:29:26   say you can train yourself to use third-party trackpad firmware and have it work just fine.

01:29:33   And then if you go back to Apple's trackpad with that style, it'll also work just fine. It's just

01:29:38   that in my particular case, there are things that I do on Apple trackpads that do not work on third

01:29:44   party trackpad firmware. And so for me, it was frustrating to have to switch because I had to

01:29:49   be more aware of what I was doing with my fingers in order to get the pointer to go where it needs

01:29:57   to go and the clicks to happen the way I needed them to happen. And also, I think the thing that's

01:30:01   going to be important really is waiting for reviews too. Like this product, I don't think it's been

01:30:07   reviewed anywhere yet. I agree with what you're saying, right? But you want to see how it performs.

01:30:11   - Yeah. Like I said, I used a pre-production model and it seems to perform pretty much like the other

01:30:16   bridge keyboards perform, which is it's a good keyboard. It is Bluetooth, so you have to pair.

01:30:21   So that's different as well. It's not using the smart connector, but it's of a similar quality

01:30:30   to other bridge products. Except it's big and it's got a big trackpad and that's really nice.

01:30:36   It's going to give you a real 13 inch MacBook Pro feel on your iPad Pro. It's just that

01:30:43   the trackpad's not quite the same. So that's a choice that people are going to have to make

01:30:49   between looking at something like this or spending a little bit more money and going for the full-on

01:30:54   first party experience. - Ryan asks, some software like BB Edit is available in both the Mac

01:31:00   App Store for a subscription and is available from the developer directly with paid upgrades.

01:31:05   Which of these scenarios do you prefer for your software? - I'd say it varies. I use them both

01:31:10   in different contexts with different tools and I don't really have a preference. I think that in

01:31:17   the end, I am paying a software developer regularly for the apps that I use regularly. And that's the

01:31:23   most important thing. I don't want to say that people who hate subscriptions are wrong because

01:31:34   I get why they don't like them. That said, I'm not sure that using software that you rely on,

01:31:44   maybe for stuff that you don't care about, but software that you rely on, you probably want to

01:31:49   stay on the current version. And if you don't stay on the current version, you play the game where

01:31:53   you ride one version for three years and then you do an upgrade, first off, the upgrade pricing

01:32:00   gets you away from that. Where it's like, if it's the latest version, your upgrade pricing is less.

01:32:03   So they try to game you there, but also you're not supporting the makers of that software. So I've

01:32:09   seen it both ways. BB Edit, I've seen as like, well, it's just pay for the upgrade. Basically,

01:32:16   you pay when they ask you to. They feel like they've made enough of a change since the last

01:32:21   time they asked that they come to you and say, we would like you to pay again. And it does not

01:32:25   renew and you have to choose to pay. And if you don't pay, you still stay on the old version. So

01:32:30   it still works. Like there's a lot to be said for that. But I also pay for Photoshop and Microsoft

01:32:38   office. I prefer the super model and, and I just know that I always have it and it's always the

01:32:43   latest version and there's a lot to be said for that too. Less of a thing for me to think about,

01:32:48   right? Like I don't have to be like, do I want to buy this version? And then also a lot of apps

01:32:53   that I use that have moved to subscription, they give me more features more frequently

01:32:58   rather than trying to collect them all up and then offer it to me in a package.

01:33:02   Plus as a customer, I mean, I know that like what I say, and I still say this like for people,

01:33:08   you know, it's a shame that I don't think Apple should take 30% of all these developers. I think

01:33:13   it should be less, but nevertheless, as a customer, I like buying things from the Mac app store

01:33:17   because then they're just available on all the machines and don't have to keep codes in one part.

01:33:21   Like I don't have to, you know, it's just easy. Here's the thing you can get Microsoft office

01:33:24   on. And I think, can you get Adobe stuff on there? I don't know if you can, but like,

01:33:28   but I'm not paying Apple for my Photoshop or Microsoft office subscriptions. I'm paying them

01:33:33   directly. So they're, they're getting the money directly from that subscription. I'm not even

01:33:36   using it in Mac apps over that. Um, which if you do it through a Mac app store, it's 30% for the

01:33:41   first year and then it's 15% after that. No, BB edit, you know, they, their software model doesn't

01:33:46   work in the app store and you will pay a premium in the app store for a BB subscription by the way,

01:33:51   like it's, you'll end up spending more money, but for some people, uh, that's fine. They just want

01:33:57   it in the Mac app store and that's fine. Um, I always try to seek out a way to pay the developer

01:34:02   directly if I can. I will say that's a preference, but, um, I don't necessarily have a preference

01:34:07   about subscription versus not. There are a lot of convenient things about, like Myke said,

01:34:10   about having a subscription. There's just an awful, like, am I ever going to stop using

01:34:14   Photoshop? Probably not. Probably not. Am I ever going to stop using Excel? Probably not.

01:34:20   I know there are alternatives. I have the alternatives, but probably not. I'm probably

01:34:23   going to keep spending a hundred bucks a year to each of those giant companies so that their

01:34:27   software always is on my computer and my tablets and my phones and I can always use it and it's

01:34:32   always there. Like I'm just, it's fine. Like I I'm, I'm perfectly happy to do it that way and,

01:34:38   and to have that the convenience and confidence to know that it's just always there. Also,

01:34:43   you could argue that having an ongoing revenue stream is better for software development as well,

01:34:48   because you don't, you don't have like artificial, um, saving a bunch of features for the next big

01:34:53   version because you need to use it to sell copies. It just sort of smooths like the Photoshop

01:34:59   releases are just, they're just releases like every quarter a new release comes out.

01:35:03   They don't save it up for two years and then do a big, you know, amazing marketing feature

01:35:08   late in release in order to sell copies. That was a distortion of software in a lot of ways for

01:35:14   marketing purposes that is a lot less present when you're doing a subscription. Brian asks,

01:35:21   do you think Spotify's more magnanimous podcast description offering could be because they don't

01:35:26   want to give Apple a comeback on the monopoly ruling if they were locking podcasts and forcing

01:35:31   podcasts to give them money for using the Spotify app. This would be exactly what they are arguing

01:35:36   Apple is doing with the app store. I give a bit of background on here to catch people up because

01:35:39   they don't remember is just talking about like the differences between Spotify's podcast subscriptions

01:35:44   where you can pay and Apple's podcast subscriptions where you can pay because Spotify's

01:35:49   whole thing is you can pay and it can be in Spotify and it's easy, but they'll also give

01:35:52   a public RSS feed so you can get them anywhere. And Apple was like, you get them in Apple podcasts

01:35:57   and that's that. So Brian's kind of asking like, is this like a ploy from Spotify in a sense,

01:36:03   like they're doing it this way because then they either can use this as a way to say Apple is being

01:36:09   more controlling or to say like, look how much different we are. My kind of question on this

01:36:14   would be is maybe Spotify just believed that the business should be done this way. Like,

01:36:19   I don't think it has to be a, are they doing this because they're being sneaky.

01:36:24   You know, I feel like that there's like a, I don't know, it's also in the same episode where

01:36:28   we're talking about them buying up another big popular show. So it's kind of complicated.

01:36:33   What do you think? I think podcasting is like, I think it contains multitudes and I think Spotify

01:36:41   knows that. Spotify wants to make money always, right? They want to make money from podcasts that

01:36:46   are open and they want to make money from podcasts that are in Spotify. And so I don't think, I mean,

01:36:53   who knows? It seems unlikely to me that Spotify is launching major business efforts because they

01:36:59   don't want to look a certain way, maybe in a particular court or regulation case. That seems

01:37:06   really like a stretch. And I think it's more likely is the obvious scenario, which is,

01:37:11   this is an additional way for Spotify to make money, which is through ads, through Anchor,

01:37:20   right? Like that kind of thing. It's all about- - Or through the subscriptions through Anchor.

01:37:24   - Or through the subscriptions through Anchor or like, right, sorry, there's two different

01:37:28   things here. There's ad insertion and then there's money that comes in and they get,

01:37:33   it's a way to do money and then it's within. And the other thing is, think about this,

01:37:40   Spotify wants you to use their app, but their app doesn't support your favorite podcast that

01:37:45   has a subscription model. So you can't use Spotify's app. Well, by enabling the ability

01:37:51   to do that, what are you doing? You're reducing the barrier to switching to Spotify as your podcast

01:37:55   app. Benefit to Spotify. Everything Spotify does is because they see a tangible benefit to their

01:38:01   business to do it. I don't think the tangible benefit is kind of trying to game some sort of

01:38:06   image viewed by a, you know, somebody who's making a judgment. I just don't think that's

01:38:16   what they're doing here at all. So no, I guess that's my answer is no, I don't think that.

01:38:20   - If you would like to send in a question for us to answer on the show, just send out a tweet

01:38:24   with the hashtag #AskUpgrade or use question mark #AskUpgrade in the Relay FM members Discord,

01:38:29   which you get access to if you sign up for Upgrade Plus. Go to getupgradeplus.com,

01:38:33   you can sign up right now and you'll also get longer ad-free episodes of Upgrade and access

01:38:40   to our wonderful members crossover special, which we'll be playing in a trailer for right at the

01:38:45   very end of this show today. Before we go, Jason, can you tell our listeners about another show here

01:38:50   on Relay FM? - Sure. This is a change of pace that I think you might like. It's Make Do, which is

01:38:57   about maybe turning your hobbies into something a little bit more. They're ready to be your

01:39:03   cheerleader. This is Tiff Arment and Julia Scott, and they're doing hobbies and maybe putting on art

01:39:09   shows and doing other stuff with the things that they make. It's fun. It is different from a lot of

01:39:14   the Relay FM shows, I think in a good way. Go to relay.fm/makedo, M-A-K-E-D-O, or just search for

01:39:21   Make Do wherever you get your podcasts. - If you'd like to find Jason online, you can go to

01:39:25   sixcolors.com and he is @jsnell on Twitter, J-S-N-E-L-L. I am @imike, I-M-Y-K-E. Thank you so

01:39:33   much to our sponsors this week, Ooni, Squarespace, DoorDash, and thank you for listening. We'll be

01:39:39   back next time. Until then, say goodbye, Jason Snow. - Goodbye, everybody.

01:39:43   Our story begins with three mild-mannered podcasters heading out for a beverage at the

01:39:58   local tavern. Little do these three know that they are not about to enter the familiar doors

01:40:02   of the old badger and thistle, but are about to be whisked across time and space.

01:40:11   Probably going to need to have some ID if you're looking to get far in this world. - Spit,

01:40:15   my friends, they're without proper identification, you know. Where can I help them get some ID?

01:40:20   - Sounds like you need to go to the Department of Misplaced Persons.

01:40:27   So I'm going to apply the Newton Effect, my special shtick, and I'm going to try to make

01:40:32   the infinity of this building drop away to something that would be actually in a building.

01:40:38   - All right, suddenly it is like an earthquake, a great trembling, all the rats look up and giant

01:40:45   kind of steel girders erupt from the ground. The ceiling seems to kind of lower as the girders rise

01:40:52   to meet it. From the horizon, walls start to close in, but it's like a tsunami of architecture.

01:40:59   - Wait a second, everyone, Jason just changed the freaking world.

01:41:05   Like, the whole world rotated around us. Obviously, this is some kind of simulation

01:41:12   that we're living in, and/or Jason is a god. Look, we're not getting anywhere without our phones,

01:41:20   so I'm going to happily insert my phone into the mysterious space slot.

01:41:24   - You insert your phone into the mysterious space slot, and it makes some sounds kind of like a 1960s

01:41:29   computer, and then a panel on the front of the dispensing machine opens up, and a little display

01:41:36   prompts you to put your hand into that slot. - Sure, you know what, we're not getting anywhere

01:41:42   without phones, so yes, I will do whatever the machine wants.

01:41:44   - A little shield drops down with a little circle kind of holding your wrist in place,

01:41:49   and then there's a sound, kind of like a giant stapler. Your hand is warm, your phone seems to

01:41:55   be now somewhat embedded in your hand. Can you just remind the listeners what the John Doe effect

01:42:05   does? - It says that I have one of those faces where people constantly think they recognize me

01:42:10   as an old coworker or long-lost cousin, childhood friend, etc. You may also be mistaken for someone

01:42:17   who owes money/is wanted dead or alive, etc. - Hey, Calvin, it's me!

01:42:24   - Oh, right, hi! - The large orangutan person kind of bolts up

01:42:29   from the bench, sending the bench kind of shifting back. A large orangutan person has grabbed both of

01:42:36   your arms and is attempting to pull them off of your body. Let's just make a quick strength check

01:42:42   here. - I rolled a six, so six plus four is ten, which is not enough.

01:42:46   - I am going to tell you that you are going to take three points of damage. Your arm is

01:42:51   really badly hurt, and you are not feeling great. The horrible orangutan thing is kind of growling

01:42:58   in your face. You are drawing the attention of several rats. When the seam on your voluminous

01:43:06   pocket gives out and cheese starts pouring out of the hole in your jumpsuit onto the floor of

01:43:12   the office, several rats are giving you scandalous looks, Jason. - I pretend like nothing has happened

01:43:18   and continue moving toward the mailroom, oiling my bucket. - Will our heroes ever get the documents

01:43:26   that they need to return to their normal lives? Will Jason stop tormenting space rats? Will Gray's

01:43:31   arm heal? Or do worse things lie ahead for him? Find out by going to getupgradeplus.com

01:43:37   and sign up today.

01:43:43   [MUSIC]

01:43:53   [ Silence ]