345: Hovering Over My Desk on New Years Eve


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:08   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 345. Today's show is brought to you by DoorDash,

00:00:15   Uni Pizza Ovens, and Loopback from Rogue Amoeba. My name is Myke Hurley and I am joined by Jason Snell. Hello, Jason Snell!

00:00:23   Six, seven, eight. Are we counting? Is that what we're doing? I love it when you do the numerology. I love it.

00:00:30   Sometimes the episode numbers are just too fun to say in the normal way.

00:00:35   Yeah, that's a good one. I like it.

00:00:37   I have a #SnellTalk question, which is also follow out, and it comes from Ryan, and Ryan wants to know,

00:00:42   "Jason, what is your preferred device appearance, i.e. light mode, dark mode, or automatic switching, on your iPhone, iPad, and Mac?"

00:00:52   Oh boy. So last week on Connected, you fellows discussed your standard device preference options, whatever.

00:01:05   And the response was basically like, you were sort of one person on the dark mode side, one person on the light mode side, and then one person in the middle.

00:01:18   Except that I revealed that I too am also in the middle, but it's a different middle.

00:01:24   So I am dark mode on my iPhone, always. It's an OLED screen, it's beautiful in dark mode.

00:01:31   I am light mode on my Mac, always.

00:01:36   Because, you know, even when you put the Mac in dark mode, so many things are assumed that it's light.

00:01:44   Like, I'm looking at my Google Doc here, and like, it's just, you end up with these squares of just blasting whiteness in the middle of the dark mode.

00:01:52   It's bad, I don't like it.

00:01:56   But on my iPad, I am automatic change with time.

00:02:03   Okay.

00:02:03   So during the day, my iPad's in light mode, and at night, my iPad's in dark mode.

00:02:09   And I have, my apps are pretty great at changing with the mode on my iPad.

00:02:17   Like Twitterific, which I use a lot, it's a dark theme and a light theme, and it changes automatically.

00:02:22   And that works great for me.

00:02:24   So I'm a little mixed up, just here and there, depending on the device.

00:02:29   I choose what's best for the device and how I use it.

00:02:32   That's how it should be.

00:02:34   So we were starting to get a lot of people send in to us their preferences.

00:02:39   So Steven created a survey.

00:02:41   I'll put a link in the show notes if you want to participate in the connected mode survey.

00:02:46   You can tell us if what you use, dark, light or auto, and your three main devices.

00:02:52   And on this week's episode of connected, we're going to reveal the results.

00:02:56   I have access to it.

00:02:58   I'm obviously not going to share, but I am very surprised with the results so far.

00:03:04   They are not at all what I would have expected.

00:03:06   So I recommend that you also submit your preferences.

00:03:10   Links in the show notes.

00:03:12   And thank you to Ryan for that hashtag snow talk question.

00:03:14   If you'd like to send in a question to help us open a future episode of the show, just send out a tweet with the hashtag snow talk.

00:03:20   Or use question mark snow talk in the relay FM members discord.

00:03:24   Last week was 20 years of Mac OS 10 and all of my Mac buddies, which includes you and Steven.

00:03:32   Hello.

00:03:33   Whoop hosting and releasing lots of various things.

00:03:36   You had a selection of articles and things that you were linking to on six colors.

00:03:40   And you also talking to John Gerber about it on the talk show as well.

00:03:44   Mm hmm.

00:03:45   It's true.

00:03:46   Big.

00:03:47   I mean, there are lots of anniversaries from from OS 10 release.

00:03:51   Honestly, but to be honest, it feels like the last couple of years, like last year and this year, it's just like lots of anniversaries in general, like big ones.

00:03:59   It feels like things just keep.

00:04:02   I don't know, maybe it's something that.

00:04:03   No, it is.

00:04:05   Well, so jobs came back to Apple.

00:04:07   Yep.

00:04:08   In 97.

00:04:11   Took charge mid year.

00:04:14   Killed the clones toward the end of the year.

00:04:17   Early 98 the iMac.

00:04:19   And so in that period from like 98 to 2001, what happened was they got their hardware act together on the Mac side.

00:04:28   Started making progress there.

00:04:29   Although it was more like what could they do relatively quickly?

00:04:33   So the iMac and they made the G three towers, you know, colorful plastic instead of boring beige.

00:04:40   And they did a first take on the laptops.

00:04:42   I mean, I went through all of this when I was doing my 2020 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20 research.

00:04:48   2020 for 2020, 20, 21 for 21, 25 for 25, 25, 25, 25.

00:04:54   Anyway, it goes on and on.

00:04:57   So it was an interesting period, but it was really like a getting up to speed period in that first few years.

00:05:03   And keeping in mind, just for people who missed this, this is the 20th anniversary of OS 10 being released.

00:05:12   Apple bought Next in order to integrate OS 10 as their future operating system strategy or the next operating system as their future operating system strategy.

00:05:23   In December of 1996.

00:05:28   So, I mean, it was a long time.

00:05:35   It was essentially four years where they had to get up to speed.

00:05:42   Think about that.

00:05:43   Think about how many years between the purchase of next and the release of OS 10.

00:05:48   And yes, there was Rhapsody and Mac OS 10 server, which was very weird, both very weird.

00:05:54   And then there was the developer preview and developer preview next and next developer preview.

00:05:59   And then there was the public beta and then there was 10.0.

00:06:01   And then by the way, this fall will be the 20th anniversary of 10.1, which is the first version that I felt like you could actually stay booted into and use.

00:06:12   Right.

00:06:12   So it took them years to, to go from next purchase to shipping product years.

00:06:21   Um, so that was what they were doing, right?

00:06:23   They were doing ghetto S 10 out the door and prop up the Mac in the meantime for it to be viable.

00:06:29   And so like the iMac and all the stuff they were doing the next phase though, of the Steve jobs return era was like the stuff that they could.

00:06:39   More strategically work on cause they weren't just trying to stay alive and get the bridge to the future.

00:06:46   And that's where you started to see the silver laptops, right?

00:06:50   Because that was a preference, not, not the black laptops, the silver laptops and they, and they worked on that and the iPod came out and that changed everything obviously.

00:06:58   And they pushed on the iPod for awhile.

00:07:00   And then the background they're working on a tablet that they decide is going to be a phone instead.

00:07:05   And it leads to, um, the iPhone in six years from the release date of OS 10, 10.0.

00:07:15   Six ish years.

00:07:17   Um, so they found another gear in that, in that decade, but also just keep in mind that like, if you really look at it, it was like four or five years where when jobs came back.

00:07:29   Which is, think about that.

00:07:30   That's a long time.

00:07:31   Four years where Apple.

00:07:33   Uh, I think because the iMac came out people that, that gave them something to focus on, but like, oh, it's 10.

00:07:41   It took them a long time.

00:07:43   And then after four ish years, that's when the jobs.

00:07:47   Uh, transformation of Apple and its products really happened.

00:07:51   And that was that next decade.

00:07:52   Right.

00:07:53   So I just think it's funny that.

00:07:55   Oh, it's 10.

00:07:56   You know, it seems like there's this milestone.

00:07:59   It's like aha, that was it.

00:08:00   But like, if you were living through it, it was like three plus years of Apple dithering, trying to find an answer for classic back OS and failing and then them buying next.

00:08:10   And then it was another three or four years before they actually shipped something that people could use.

00:08:15   So, um, it was a weird time.

00:08:17   But we celebrate that time.

00:08:21   Yeah, I know it's, I mean, it's, uh, it's huge, right?

00:08:26   Because when they, when they finally did ship that, that is the foundation for everything on the software side that they've done since more or less other than the iPod.

00:08:35   Yeah.

00:08:36   Everything other than the iPod, right?

00:08:37   The iPod was a licensed operating system, right?

00:08:41   That's weird, but that's what it was.

00:08:43   But like Mac, iPhone, iPod, or Mac, iPhone, iPad, Apple TV, Apple watch, home pod, I guess like, I mean, it's the Apple watch.

00:08:54   It's the basis of all that stuff.

00:08:56   So this week ends March and begins April.

00:08:59   We are still waiting on a couple of things that we spoke about a few weeks ago.

00:09:05   Uh, no WWDC announcement, which makes it the latest that this has ever happened.

00:09:09   That this has happened in recent recorded history for good reason.

00:09:13   Right.

00:09:13   But just funny to me.

00:09:15   Um, makes me wonder when they actually gonna have it.

00:09:18   Like when in June is it in June?

00:09:21   Who knows?

00:09:21   You know, I had this, I had this thought, I was just like walking around and thinking, okay,

00:09:24   I'm thinking about this today.

00:09:26   I was like, what if they just were like, here you go.

00:09:29   Right.

00:09:30   It's like, it was never, it's like, you know, like I'm reminded of when they released, um, iOS 14 within 24 hours, right?

00:09:38   That like just one day all of a sudden it's like, here's everything, right?

00:09:42   Like they don't need to make us all sit down and wait for a certain period of time.

00:09:46   They just drop it all at once with no pre-announcement.

00:09:47   So it's funny to think about it.

00:09:50   They won't do it that way.

00:09:51   And the reason they won't do it that way is they're going to want to crow about whatever is great in their next OS releases.

00:09:56   And they're going to want to control the message, which is why they're going to, they're all, they're going to do like, that's the advantage of the WWDC format is you can.

00:10:05   Uh, sort of tell the big picture to people and make the big announcements, and then you can get into some details for developers and then you can like roll out the sessions and make the downloads available.

00:10:17   And so you can control the rollout of the information and control the message a little bit and they like that.

00:10:24   And so I think the, the format of the conference works even without the conference existing, but you are right.

00:10:31   They can do it whenever they can do it in June, they can do it in July, they can do it, you know, in August, they can do it whenever they want, but it'll probably my guess is it'll probably still be sometime in June.

00:10:41   Unclear whether it'll be back to early June or whether they're like, yeah, late June was fine.

00:10:45   Let's just do late June again.

00:10:47   I don't know, but I think, I think, um, for WWDC, that's what, um, I think it works.

00:10:53   I think it makes sense.

00:10:54   It's, it's the one other than the iPhone, I guess it's the one event on Apple's calendar that really can't be done via a press release or just a quick video that drops on the, on the site.

00:11:05   Yeah.

00:11:05   In the same way that like, you know, I'm, I am just joking around.

00:11:08   Like I don't believe any of that.

00:11:09   Like, cause in the same way that they, you've got to give people some kind of notice because people need to block it into their work calendars and stuff.

00:11:16   You know, a lot of people that they take a big chunk of that week off to get up to speed with the new stuff so they can get working on it straight away.

00:11:24   Right.

00:11:25   Like it's a normal part of the flow and in the same way, uh, Apple need to be able to allocate their engineering resource for that period of time.

00:11:32   So, but you know what, what they do have now is like, they can just work out whenever is best for them.

00:11:38   They don't have any external dependencies right this year.

00:11:41   Um, probably the same as last year.

00:11:44   Maybe last year they, they were struggling a bit, right?

00:11:47   Because they was trying to work it out.

00:11:49   So this year they've had an entire year to plan out when it's best for them, but they don't need to announce it in March because people don't need to plan travel.

00:11:57   And the only reason they announced it in March last year is because everyone was going, what the hell are they going to do?

00:12:02   And so they had to kind of tell everyone.

00:12:03   So we'll find out, I reckon probably sometime in April, um, or maybe early May kind of when the day is and what the format is going to be.

00:12:13   Yeah.

00:12:13   And I think, I think you're right.

00:12:15   I think the most important thing is for them to give people time to anticipate and to mark their calendar because they know their developers are going to be, um, consuming that kind of information.

00:12:29   So I think it's helpful for their developers.

00:12:31   And we are also expecting a event of some description.

00:12:36   I want to ask you actually, do you think that they will have an event or just release products by press release?

00:12:42   I don't know.

00:12:43   I mean, this is, I think going back to what I said about how WWDC and, uh, and I should, this is why people call it dub dub DC is because it's easier to say.

00:12:51   And I always, uh, but I don't want to call it that.

00:12:55   I don't want to call it that Myke, uh, developer conference, you could get away with it.

00:13:01   I can't get away with it.

00:13:02   WWDC, the worldwide developer conference, which by the way, is annoying because worldwide is one word.

00:13:10   So it's really WDC.

00:13:12   There is no second dub in dub dub people.

00:13:14   Well, the funny thing is it's actually faster to say worldwide developer conference.

00:13:21   It's less syllables than WWDC.

00:13:23   Yeah.

00:13:24   Worldwide developer conference, uh, and the iPhone event are the ones that you got to have, right?

00:13:32   Everything else you don't, you don't got to have, right?

00:13:35   Like if let's say Apple has.

00:13:37   Apple Silicon IMAX using the M1 chip.

00:13:42   And let's say Apple has AirTags and let's say Apple has a new, a new iPad pro.

00:13:54   Okay, great.

00:13:56   Well, yeah, they could do a video and say, Hey, we got a Mac and an iPad and these tag things and yay.

00:14:05   Are you getting it yet?

00:14:05   It's all one product.

00:14:06   It's all, oh God.

00:14:08   That's right.

00:14:10   It's an iPad in the shape of an iMac that is trackable.

00:14:14   So if you carry it on your back, people will know where you are.

00:14:17   Cause they'll say, who's the dummy, uh, carrying an iMac on this back.

00:14:22   Uh, so they could do it right.

00:14:26   That's the traditional event thing.

00:14:27   I don't know if I was at Apple, I'd say, don't do it.

00:14:31   I'd say, don't do it.

00:14:33   Don't do it.

00:14:33   These, here's the thing.

00:14:36   If you can't tell a cohesive story about how these products are connected.

00:14:40   So unless like you could do the iPad pro and the iMac together and say, behold, the power of Apple Silicon.

00:14:46   I get that.

00:14:47   But you know, the traditional model where you kind of like do a store update and then throw out a, an accessory product and then throw out a, an iPad and throw out a Mac.

00:14:57   It's like unnecessary, right?

00:14:59   You can do, and it, you can roll them out at different times.

00:15:02   Right?

00:15:03   So if like, you could very easily say, why don't we on, let me open my calendar here.

00:15:08   Why don't we on April 6th, roll out the iPad pro and on April 13th, roll out the Apple Silicon iMac and on April 20th, roll out AirTags or okay, we'll just roll them out in a press release on April 6th.

00:15:21   Then nobody will notice.

00:15:22   Um, why not?

00:15:25   Why not give them their own moment in the sun rather than sticking them together?

00:15:29   It allows you if you're Apple to brief journalists separately, it's separate lists anyway, but brief journalists separately on the two products, you get two product stories.

00:15:37   You get people talking about your products on two separate weeks.

00:15:40   I think there's a lot of value in that.

00:15:42   And if the, in terms of the video production, like literally it's separate videos anyway, right?

00:15:48   They're producing separate.

00:15:48   It means Tim has to record a different intro.

00:15:51   That's literally all it means.

00:15:52   Everything else is going to be its own little segments that were produced separately anyway.

00:15:57   So that that's my counter argument.

00:15:59   That would be my argument that they don't need to do an event.

00:16:01   They could just do an announcement and brief media and all of that.

00:16:05   And, and like, it doesn't have to resemble a physical event at all.

00:16:09   And they've had a year now to reconceptualize what their product rollouts are.

00:16:13   They already were.

00:16:15   Stepping away from having every product have a collected event.

00:16:19   I went to that Mac book 16 inch, uh, uh, event in, well, not event media briefings in general.

00:16:27   It was in New York city.

00:16:28   That was my last, last time traveling for an Apple thing.

00:16:31   Um, you know, they just, they just had people come for a briefing and then they announced the product.

00:16:36   Like they, they have been changing the stuff a while now.

00:16:41   So while it's nice, it gets everybody buzzing about what Apple's going to do.

00:16:46   Um, I don't know if it is better for them to roll out two products as discreet as an iPad pro and an iMac.

00:16:56   At the S at diff at the same time, unless they're part of the same story, unless they they're like, oh, but you don't understand.

00:17:06   They have these things in common now.

00:17:08   And we want to explain like the iPad, but I think it's a stretch for an iPad pro and an iMac to have.

00:17:14   Will just make the, the counter argument that everyone else is making to you of a Twitter right now, which is the Apple watch iPad air event.

00:17:23   Yep.

00:17:25   That they did in September.

00:17:27   I mean, they can do it.

00:17:28   That's that's traditional.

00:17:30   I'm just saying, do they want to do that?

00:17:33   Is that the right move for them to just roll that stuff together?

00:17:36   Maybe it is.

00:17:37   It would be, here's what I'm trying to caution against.

00:17:41   Just because Apple's done it before.

00:17:44   Doesn't mean they're going to do it that way again.

00:17:45   And I think it's worth having a moment to say, does it actually make sense or is it more like the momentum that has them?

00:17:55   Drop a couple of different products together.

00:17:57   Maybe they like it.

00:17:58   Maybe they've decided that it's better to load up an event with announcements and get people buzzing about it and having lots of stuff to set one message that is, oh, Apple is just all over the place doing stuff.

00:18:09   Isn't that great?

00:18:10   Maybe they have decided that marketing wise, that's actually a better fit.

00:18:13   Then, uh, the rolling thunder approach where it's like, whoa, it's a new iPad.

00:18:20   Oh no, now it's a new iMac, uh, across weeks.

00:18:23   I don't know.

00:18:24   I don't know.

00:18:25   Um, I think it comes down to internally their debate about, like, I assume they have debates about this stuff.

00:18:33   Um, the efficacy of a live stream as a product rollout for a product that is not a flagship product.

00:18:39   Cause that's really what it's about.

00:18:40   Right.

00:18:41   Is do you want to do this as a live stream?

00:18:43   Even though, yes, it's all prerecorded, but you put it out live and the whole world tunes in at 10 AM Pacific and watches it.

00:18:53   This product announcement in real time and talks about it on Twitter.

00:18:57   And it's like watching the super bowl.

00:18:59   It's an event.

00:19:00   And if I were arguing for that, that's what I would argue for.

00:19:05   I would say, well, you know, you never get the chance to have the entire eye of the world on you to wonder what you're doing and hang on your every word and talk about it on Twitter.

00:19:17   And it's not the same if we just drop a video.

00:19:20   I, you know, although I, I guess my counter argument would be, why don't we just do two of them?

00:19:25   We'll do one this week and one next week, but the, the, the counter to that, see, I'm arguing with myself here, Myke would be people are going to get tired of it.

00:19:32   There, you can't do that many of them, so let's roll them all together.

00:19:35   So ultimately I think it comes down to the value of that live stream and having it happen in the moment, which is as close as you're ever going to get in COVID era to having people hanging on to the words of an Apple executive on a stage somewhere on a live stream.

00:19:50   It's the closest analog to that.

00:19:52   And if that works for you and you think that's more efficacious for your product rollout, then grabbing the headlines one week and then grabbing them again the next week and focusing it all on individual products, then that's the call.

00:20:06   But I think it's, I don't think it's a, it's a.

00:20:08   A gimme to have it be the traditional way.

00:20:13   I think that you could argue that the rolling thunder approach is, uh, is actually a better one for letting each individual product shine.

00:20:22   Well, I think whatever they're going to do, we're going to find out real soon because iOS 14.5 has been in beta for a while now.

00:20:31   And it includes a lot of stuff that they're surely itching to release, you know, like the mask thing, the app tracking, transparency thing, which I promise we will talk about at some point on this show.

00:20:42   Like it's just something that I wanted to, I want to talk about it with you, but I just haven't found our way in yet.

00:20:49   And I still have a theory that it may also include features we haven't seen, like how they included the pointer support.

00:21:00   New hardware.

00:21:01   So that's what I'm saying.

00:21:03   I think that there is, there is clearly, I feel like a hold on 14.5 for the new hardware coming right.

00:21:12   And last week the most recent betas of iOS and MacOS came out and they both have references to unreleased iPad pro and iMac models.

00:21:21   Yeah.

00:21:22   So I think steam is starting to pick up and they clearly want to get this version of iOS out there, I believe.

00:21:29   But it's waiting for either.

00:21:32   It's waiting for these products, basically, however, they going to choose to do them.

00:21:35   It's waiting for the iPad essentially.

00:21:37   And what is that going to be?

00:21:39   And yeah, I will also say the most important thing is for them to announce and do a live stream of an event so that we can do a draft.

00:21:45   Because if they just drop a product, we can't draft, there's no drafting of like a press release that just got surprise posted.

00:21:53   Like there's no way to game that we don't get to talk that and I enjoy our drafts.

00:21:58   So I mean, like we could, but we don't want to because that would require doing like a draft now.

00:22:03   For us, anything that could happen over the next six months, which I don't want to do that.

00:22:08   It doesn't work, I think.

00:22:09   So that is the second part.

00:22:11   If they announce an event, whenever they do, we will do another emergency draft episode, because the assumption will be that they would stick to the it's happening next week

00:22:23   kind of cadence, which is not what it used to be.

00:22:26   The reason we used to be able to fit the drafts in is they would give two weeks notice because people would have to make plans.

00:22:31   But now people don't need to move anywhere.

00:22:33   Like Apple started last year.

00:22:35   Just it's, hey, there's an event next Tuesday or whatever.

00:22:38   So who knows?

00:22:39   Some point over the next couple of weeks, there might be an additional draft episode as well.

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00:24:34   I'm sure you have something to say.

00:24:35   Yeah, well, you mentioned the Skype thing.

00:24:37   I think it's still true that Skype only will record even if you have a mixer with multiple microphones plugged into it.

00:24:42   It'll only record the first one.

00:24:43   We had to deal with that at Macworld.

00:24:45   It was very unpleasant.

00:24:45   And we had to use like a cord to attach to a plug on the back of an iMac.

00:24:52   It was very bad because it was before Loopback existed.

00:24:54   Yeah, I use this all the time.

00:24:56   Soundboards, you're exactly right.

00:24:58   I use that when I'm doing a soundboard, my microphone in Zoom or Skype becomes a Loopback interface, a Loopback input.

00:25:07   So it's combining my microphone and the output of another Rogomib app, Virago, that is the soundboard app.

00:25:14   But the primary use I have for Loopback is when I'm doing live streams.

00:25:18   So live video streams, especially of Total Party Kill, the tabletop, you know, actual play D&D podcast that I do over the incomparable.

00:25:27   We do live video of those and you end up with a scenario where I'm running OBS, let's say, a video app, right, for the live stream.

00:25:36   And I need to route my microphone and the audio from Zoom into OBS.

00:25:43   And the best way to do that is to use Loopback to do it, because then I mix those two things together and you only do it once.

00:25:50   I create a new thing in my Loopback.

00:25:53   It's called YouTube Stream Source.

00:25:54   And the contents are two things, the audio out of Zoom and the audio out of my microphone.

00:26:01   And that's the input that OBS uses.

00:26:05   And so it gets a nice mix of me and the people I'm talking to.

00:26:08   And that's what goes out over the stream.

00:26:10   And, you know, you can't do it without that.

00:26:14   It would be a really less interesting live stream if all you heard was me.

00:26:17   It would be like one person talking to himself.

00:26:21   It's not so good.

00:26:22   Not so good.

00:26:23   So I use Loopback for all of that.

00:26:24   It's great.

00:26:24   If you ever work for any audio, be it professionally or just for fun, you should check out Loopback.

00:26:29   It is an indispensable tool in your utility belt.

00:26:32   Go and check it out right now at Mac audio dot com slash upgrade 21.

00:26:37   And you'll get 21 percent off when you use the code upgrade 21.

00:26:42   This offer applies to the various bundles that Loopback is a part of, including the Loopback

00:26:46   and Audio Hijack bundle and the Ultimate Podcast bundle.

00:26:49   This is fantastic.

00:26:51   These deals are so good.

00:26:52   And to get that discount is awesome.

00:26:54   Once again, go to Mac audio dot com slash upgrade 21 and use the code upgrade 21 for 21 percent off.

00:27:01   Our thanks to Rogue Amoeba for their support of this show and Relay FM.

00:27:04   Let's do some upstream news.

00:27:06   Upstream is where we touch on some of the goings on in the streaming media landscape.

00:27:11   You have what I hope is the final report of 60 minutes on Paramount Plus.

00:27:17   Yeah, I have a very important update, Myke, which is just that after all my complaining about 25, 25, 25, 25,

00:27:23   24, 24, 24, the Paramount Plus taking 60 minutes, a show that's been on the air for 50 years and sorting all of its

00:27:30   episodes by episode number without including the season to differentiate them has three, four weeks after the

00:27:41   launch of Paramount Plus been fixed and now it displays its seasons.

00:27:47   And so I'm getting on 60 minutes the shocking list 26, 25, 24, 23.

00:27:53   Incredible.

00:27:54   It actually, it actually works.

00:27:57   However, I do have a new Paramount Plus complaint since we're detailing the, uh, the problems of, of this

00:28:05   streaming app, I'll just put it in there.

00:28:07   Uh, we, we, we talked last week about how, um, the commercial break.

00:28:12   In the 60 minutes clips is burned into the video file rather than being part of the ad breaks.

00:28:19   So if you're on the no ad version, you still get the, uh, we'll, we'll more of this story after this.

00:28:26   And then there's nothing there.

00:28:27   Uh, which is dumb and it was there on CBS all access too.

00:28:30   So, so that's no good.

00:28:32   Um, but there's, uh, another issue that they've got that similar we've been watching the stand, which is a

00:28:39   mini series that they released in December, but we just got to it now.

00:28:42   So we're watching it.

00:28:43   We have to pause it.

00:28:44   And we, in fact, we ended up leaving the app and we, uh, we come back later and the app says, oh, you're at.

00:28:52   Eight minutes resume.

00:28:54   Right.

00:28:55   And you think what it's going to do, like every other, literally every other streaming app ever, when you click

00:29:01   resume, it's going to jump into the show.

00:29:04   Oh no, no, no, no, no.

00:29:07   What Paramount plus instead does is play the same video that it plays when you start a show saying that this is a

00:29:16   Paramount plus or CBS or whatever original.

00:29:19   And then it jumps to the point in the show where you're watching it before.

00:29:23   So they've built this bizarre branding pre-roll thing into the, I imagine it's a bug.

00:29:32   I hope it's a bug that even when you resume a show, it does the, you know, ego logo play, uh, before it drops

00:29:41   you back into your show.

00:29:41   So imagine if you were watching a Netflix show and you went away and you came back and you said resume, and

00:29:47   instead of the show resuming, you got the Netflix, uh, vroom thing.

00:29:52   It's not good.

00:29:53   Don't do that.

00:29:54   So I don't know what's going on over there, but, uh, but I think at this point Paramount is just introducing

00:30:02   bugs specifically for you.

00:30:03   So you keep giving them conversation on the episodes.

00:30:06   Well, I think the truth is that they spent, they've spent the last three months rebranding their older technology

00:30:14   and have not been focused on anything but that.

00:30:17   So I hope that they get better in the future.

00:30:19   Cause I actually think that they've got a lot of good content on that service, but.

00:30:22   Um, the Apple TV app is not so hot.

00:30:26   Black Widow and Cruella will be coming to Disney plus and theaters simultaneously Cruella in May and Black

00:30:35   Widow in July.

00:30:36   These will be premier access.

00:30:38   So $30 when they hit Disney plus clearly Disney, uh, they got, they got tired of waiting for Black Widow.

00:30:46   And this is like, they should have done this months ago.

00:30:49   I don't know if this was the route that they were going to take.

00:30:52   I don't know why they didn't do it a long time ago, but they finally saw sense and they're going to be releasing

00:30:59   this movie in multiple ways for people, whoever they want to get it.

00:31:03   I think they were hoping, right?

00:31:07   I think it's the hope.

00:31:08   It's the, what is, what is Ted Lasso learn?

00:31:11   It's the hope that kills you.

00:31:12   Um, I think, and I think I've said it on the show before, but I know I've said it in my personal life a lot,

00:31:18   which is in the last year, what we've learned is that if anybody bets the, um, under on COVID bet the over, like

00:31:26   it's never the under it's never the under.

00:31:28   And here is another example that we're just like, well, maybe, maybe if we pushed it back a little more, push it

00:31:34   back a little more.

00:31:35   And finally they've reached the point, Black Widow, it's like a year out now from, from where they, where they

00:31:45   did it.

00:31:45   They keep pushing it back.

00:31:47   They keep pushing it back and they've got other movies coming.

00:31:49   And so they finally have said, well, we're going to push it back again.

00:31:54   Two more months.

00:31:55   We hope that means that there are more people in movie theaters, but even if they aren't, they aren't, uh, it'll

00:32:01   be on Premiere access and premiere access 30 bucks for Black Widow or Cruella.

00:32:07   Um, this is Disney busting the, the theater model with home viewing for theater prices, which is not what

00:32:19   Warner Brothers did with HBO max.

00:32:21   But, um, but I think it's, I think it's, it's necessary for them to do this.

00:32:29   And, um, you know, a lot of these companies are just trying to figure out how do you deal with the fact that theaters

00:32:37   aren't back and even when they're back, they're not going to really be back.

00:32:40   So I think it's still a big moment because Black Widow, any Marvel franchise, they they're designed to make lots

00:32:49   of money in movie theaters.

00:32:51   And so for them to take it and put it and not as a Disney plus throw in, but to, to, you know, they're going to do

00:32:58   the same thing they did with Milan, but, but still, but still let people have a way to see it.

00:33:04   And I would almost bet you that that's how I'll see it is that my family and I will gather together and we'll pay

00:33:11   $30 and we'll watch Black Widow.

00:33:13   It's just kind of funny in a way that in July, there will be more movie theaters open than any other point in the

00:33:23   last six to nine months, but they're still going to release it in on Disney plus cause they have to, right?

00:33:29   Cause it's, it's not about these places being open even it's what is people want to do.

00:33:33   Right.

00:33:34   What's the percentage of the population that's comfortable going to a movie theater.

00:33:37   And I think that will increase over time, but I think it's going to take time.

00:33:41   Yeah, of course it will.

00:33:42   But it's just funny to me.

00:33:44   It's like Disney.

00:33:44   People would have wanted this more six to nine months ago anyway.

00:33:50   Like, yeah, I I'm looking forward to it.

00:33:52   It's like, you know, I love every Marvel movie, so of course I will do the $30 thing.

00:33:56   Cruella I do want to see, but I don't know if that is a movie that I'll pay the money for rather than just

00:34:03   waiting for it to come on Disney plus, but like I do want to see that movie.

00:34:06   I saw the trailer of it and was really surprised by it.

00:34:09   I thought it looked super cool, but I might just wait for that one.

00:34:11   But, uh, black widow will be paying for and then Pixar's next movie.

00:34:16   Luca is going to be coming to Disney plus without the extra fee in June.

00:34:20   Like they did with soul.

00:34:21   I think what we've learned is no Pixar movie will they make you pay for, right?

00:34:27   But they'll, but everything else, yes, you must pay.

00:34:31   I think there it's interesting, right?

00:34:33   Because I I'm sure Disney would like Pixar to make money in theaters, but I think also what's going on here is Disney

00:34:40   recognizing that one of Disney plus is big advantages over other streaming services is the Disney brand as something

00:34:47   that appeals to families and adding Pixar movies in, uh, to Disney plus just adds to Disney plus is credibility.

00:34:58   As a streaming service with lots of content for, for families with kids and teenagers.

00:35:03   And, um, I think in the long run, Pixar is not going to be a Disney plus only studio, but this is an example where like Pixar,

00:35:11   there's enough added benefit there.

00:35:14   Um, and there are no Pixar TV series properly yet.

00:35:18   There's they're coming like Pixar originals, like there are Marvel TV series.

00:35:23   So, yeah, like I just, you can see the difference here, right?

00:35:28   That, that Pixar movies for now are sort of like, okay, we'll just put those on Disney plus.

00:35:32   And I think, I think it's about the appeal of the family, um, family audience to Disney plus as a service.

00:35:38   I also think it's just been a matter of what Pixar had because the Pixar movies they've released this way.

00:35:45   I think there's been three of them, right?

00:35:47   Was it Outward or out?

00:35:48   I think it was one of them.

00:35:50   Um, if that was what it's called.

00:35:52   And then Soul and Luca.

00:35:55   These are new IP.

00:35:57   They're like completely non tied into other Pixar movies.

00:36:00   If they would have had a new toy story, it would have been a premier access movie.

00:36:05   Right.

00:36:05   You would think so.

00:36:06   Yeah.

00:36:06   I think it's just the case of like, maybe they think people wouldn't necessarily pay for the $30 for something that they're unsure of and maybe more people will watch them and it will maybe we'll get more buzz if it can be seen for free.

00:36:20   I don't know.

00:36:21   But I would expect that any, if they would have had any, um, of these like movies that were of existing successful properties, you would have had to pay for them.

00:36:31   And we mentioned HBO and Warner.

00:36:34   Uh, Warner is coming back to the theater.

00:36:36   They've made a deal with Cineworld and Regal to actually show that 2021 movie slate in places where theaters can open.

00:36:43   Day and date HBO max.

00:36:45   Yeah.

00:36:45   So if you want to see it in a theater or don't have HBO max, you could go see it in a theater.

00:36:49   And then going forward from, uh, 2022 onwards, they're going to be guaranteeing a 45 day exclusivity window.

00:36:56   So this is the case of the cinemas being like, Hey, don't you go get any ideas and one or a set.

00:37:05   Okay.

00:37:05   Yeah, this is, I think this is part of the fallout of the, the complaints about it too, where they were like, well, this is for 21 and not, and we don't know about 22 and they're saying no, no, no, seriously in 22.

00:37:17   Although the fact that it's a 45 day exclusivity window, like this is the, this is where we're headed, right?

00:37:21   Is there still going to be blockbusters.

00:37:23   They're still going to be in theaters, but the window is going to be much more limited, uh, when there's a window and when there's not a window, what it's going to be is like.

00:37:30   The premier access.

00:37:32   I think that's going to be the model is either the movie is in theaters or you can pay $30 to watch it at home, or the movie is going to be in theaters for a short period of time.

00:37:42   And then it will pop up on streaming services.

00:37:44   Like, I feel like that's inevitable, the shortening of the window or perhaps the replacement of the window with like a combination of theater plus expensive at home.

00:37:54   Do you think that this may possibly suggest that HBO max didn't shoot through the roof with their movie thing that they did?

00:38:06   No, I don't think that's what it's about.

00:38:08   I think that my understanding is HBO max has actually done pretty well by having all these premiers in there and will continue to over the course.

00:38:14   I, I think, I think it's a combination of, um, again, it's the, it's the hope that the, that the theater.

00:38:24   Experience is going to be back in 2022 to the point where they can make the money that they expected to make.

00:38:31   And, um, and in 21, I think it's the idea that things have maybe gotten a little bit better with vaccines, especially that they're going to get more people in seats later in 2021.

00:38:40   So you might as well make that deal so that, that theaters need things to show and you want your product to be in those theaters.

00:38:46   Um, so even if it's on HBO max, not everybody has HBO max, not everybody wants a TV experience when they w they can go to a movie theater if they're comfortable with it.

00:38:54   So I think they're just trying to, um, gauge the, uh, the way, I mean, it's a big corporation.

00:39:02   They're trying to gauge the way to maximize revenue and they're hoping that they can maximize revenue again in 2022 by putting things in theaters exclusively.

00:39:09   And we'll, we'll see.

00:39:10   And we'll see what Disney does.

00:39:11   Like I'm, I'm really fascinated about what Disney is going to do with their, their stuff that currently is premiere access release like black widow.

00:39:19   So like the next Marvel movie, what's that going to be?

00:39:23   Are they going to be confident enough in theater for it to just be theater only for awhile?

00:39:28   Are they going to be not confident in theater so that they do premiere access or are they going to split the difference and offer like premiere access three weeks after it's in theaters or something, something that, that really is, um, uh, you know, the next Marvel movie, the next long delayed Marvel movie.

00:39:47   I I'm, I'm really interested to see what Disney does.

00:39:53   And meanwhile, James Bond just waits out there in the wings.

00:39:58   They're going to end up releasing the next James Bond movie before this one is right.

00:40:04   It's just gonna stay there forever.

00:40:06   Oh boy.

00:40:08   Mark Gurman is reporting that Apple has been working on a quote rugged Apple watch for extreme sports and athletes, hikers, and others who've used the device in more extreme environments.

00:40:23   This is a product in consideration for either this year on next year and will be an additional model, but would likely feature better impact resistance and increased protection, possibly rubber and or plastic for the casing.

00:40:39   What do you think of this?

00:40:40   I love the idea.

00:40:43   Um, I love the idea.

00:40:46   I think Apple should do more, more differentiated products, right?

00:40:49   Like Apple watch is going to be Apple watch.

00:40:53   They're not going to really change the functionality of it, but why would you not make more versions available?

00:40:58   This is a little bit like our iPhone conversation.

00:41:00   The idea that originally there was an iPhone and now Apple has a whole range of iPhones for you to choose from, right?

00:41:07   Like having a, uh, a sport Apple watch, you know, that is, that is rugged and padded and it's more, you know, robust than the existing Apple watches.

00:41:21   And that'll be a choice based on people wear it based on usage, but also based on look.

00:41:25   And why not?

00:41:27   Why not do that?

00:41:28   It actually makes a lot of sense.

00:41:29   And I have to assume that they've also heard if this product is real, um, that they've also gotten feedback from Apple watch users who are like, yeah, well, my problem with the Apple watch is I, and then they tell a story about how they destroyed their Apple watch doing something.

00:41:45   And that's when Apple leans forward and says, interesting.

00:41:48   Maybe there is a market for that.

00:41:59   And I, my, my guess is that the people who are, who are either destroying their Apple watches or taking their Apple watches off because they don't want to destroy them is a teeny tiny percentage.

00:42:00   But I think Apple.

00:42:01   Might look at that as like planting.

00:42:03   That's like a little, a little seed.

00:42:05   And then around that seed is other people who don't do that, but aspire to that level of activity.

00:42:12   And then around that is, uh, another slice that is, uh, that's the wrong metaphor, but.

00:42:18   Another layer that is, uh, people who just like the look and like feeling like they got the big, you know, they put the extra big tires on their truck.

00:42:27   Um, and that's how you market a product like that, right?

00:42:30   You, you, you're not just marketing it to the people who actually need it.

00:42:33   You're marketing it to the people who aspire to it, or just like the look of it.

00:42:36   And this makes total sense to me that you wouldn't want every Apple watch to be like that, but the Apple watch is old.

00:42:41   Now the Apple watch is six years old.

00:42:43   It's time for product variation like this.

00:42:46   And this, you know, and it also, yes, it makes more sense than a, a gold, a solid gold Apple watch.

00:42:51   So I like the idea a lot.

00:42:53   I think it's great.

00:42:53   The report on Bloomberg references, the Casio Casio G shock, which I have one of those Steven bought me one for my birthday.

00:43:01   And I just love the look of that watch.

00:43:04   I'm not wearing it because I'm going on a bicycle and flying down the side of a mountain.

00:43:09   It's just a cool look.

00:43:11   Like if you did fly down the side of a mountain, you'd probably wear it.

00:43:15   Yeah.

00:43:15   And I'm sure the watch would survive better than me in a situation like that.

00:43:20   They'd identify you from your watch.

00:43:22   Like, I, I agree with what you're saying that more Apple watches to appeal to more aesthetics is a, I think a very important thing for this.

00:43:32   I think more important than making product variations in their other products.

00:43:38   Like I don't need my iMac to look any different other than color, right?

00:43:43   Like whatever.

00:43:44   But watches, I mean, this is the thing I've said a million times, watches are a style choice and I don't particularly love the look of the Apple watch.

00:43:55   Um, I might actually like it more if it leaned into the fact that it's not this sleek thing.

00:44:00   In my opinion, right?

00:44:02   Like in my opinion, the Apple watch is not a very sleek, um, understated thing.

00:44:07   Right.

00:44:07   Not to begin with.

00:44:08   Right.

00:44:08   So I would like it to lean into the fact that it isn't right and be chunky and bright and all that kind of stuff as a rugged watch.

00:44:17   And I think they, you got to start somewhere and they started by focusing on the core product and by defining the, uh, the core product, but eventually you have to get beyond that.

00:44:29   Right.

00:44:32   I do wonder though, if they actually need to make a specific watch for this, or if it could be an accessory for existing watches, like a little case that you snap on, but I guess if they made it its own thing, they could give it specific features for this type of watch that make it more practical for people that wear it.

00:44:55   It would not surprise me if they, if they made a, uh, a sports watch and had some custom faces or stuff like that.

00:45:04   Right.

00:45:04   Just to be like, aha, and you get this because they've, we've seen them do that with other product variants on Apple watch.

00:45:11   But yeah, I think it's, I think it's a great idea now that they've got the core watch down.

00:45:17   Um, it's, it's probably past time, but like it's definitely time for them to, to do variations on it.

00:45:23   And I feel like Apple of the last few years has really embraced the idea that you provide more options because people don't always want this, you know, core model.

00:45:36   Like it used to be sort of with iPhone is a perfect example, right?

00:45:39   There was the iPhone and there was the iPad.

00:45:42   Um, but now we have options and options are good.

00:45:45   And I know people will often get Apple a hard time and they're like, Oh, remember back when there was four products in a square and now they've got all these different product variations.

00:45:53   It's so confusing.

00:45:54   It's like, yeah, it's also like, and that can be taken too far where you've got.

00:45:59   Kind of ill-defined products, but like there is a lot to be said for saying we have four iPhones and, or five or six, depending, uh, and choose the one that has the price and the features that work for you as somebody who is using a little iPhone right now.

00:46:16   Like, I appreciate that.

00:46:17   And the Apple watch should absolutely do that.

00:46:19   It's perfectly positioned as you said, it's already kind of chunky.

00:46:22   So, you know, go with it.

00:46:24   Yeah.

00:46:26   I think I liked something that John Gruber said too.

00:46:30   You know, we were talking about like who this thing could fit with.

00:46:32   It's like about people that put phones in cases for protection.

00:46:35   Well, they might not want to wear an Apple watch in case they break it.

00:46:39   And this would be a more protected Apple watch.

00:46:41   It's like, there is, I think that there is definitely room for other things.

00:46:46   And going back to what you were saying about the quadrant thing, the reason Apple had to do the quadrant is because they had loads of products and loads of those products were really bad.

00:46:54   That's why they needed to do the quadrant, right?

00:46:57   Like we have a lot of work to do, so let's simplify the amount of products that we offer.

00:47:02   Apple now offer lots of products, but they're all pretty good to excellent.

00:47:07   Right.

00:47:08   And, and clearly defined.

00:47:10   Yeah.

00:47:11   You know, and clearly defined.

00:47:12   Like I can tell you what the difference is between those four iPhone models and really five or six iPhone models.

00:47:18   Like they're, they are clearly different and there is some customer confusion that happens.

00:47:22   There's no doubt about it.

00:47:23   Apple is good at communicating and has all of those retail stores.

00:47:28   And I feel like Apple is pretty good at helping people through the confusion, but the trade-off is even for a little more customer confusion is you create a product that's going to take another slice out of the market and convince them that this is the.

00:47:41   The product they want.

00:47:42   And for Apple watch, I think that this is a really good thing for them to try.

00:47:46   Yeah.

00:47:47   I mean, why not?

00:47:48   Right.

00:47:49   Like they've, as you said, they've had multiple versions of the watch before, but they haven't really been clearly defined.

00:47:56   Uh, I feel like, you know, like if even when you're going back to say, when they have the sport model and the Apple watch model, they had different features, like the glass was different and stuff like that as well as some of the body materials.

00:48:11   Um, but they, it was hard to explain.

00:48:14   Like, do you want the eye, like the ion glass or the Sapphire glass?

00:48:19   It's like, I don't know.

00:48:20   What do I want?

00:48:21   So, you know, bringing back the sport model or I saw some people call it like ref, maybe like the Explorer model, which I also kind of like, I think either of those will work well.

00:48:31   And plus the Apple watch now is so much more built to be used in these environments, like even just having the cell coverage, right?

00:48:42   Like that if you were out in the wilderness and you've got yourself into some trouble, well, you could just call emergency services, right?

00:48:49   Like it's, it really is a very cool product for this and they could add a feature or two that made it make more sense, even still as well as just changing the case.

00:49:00   And then we could have like something that's really kind of a purpose built for a certain type of use case and why not?

00:49:09   So I'm, I'm all on board with this.

00:49:11   I think it's a good idea.

00:49:13   Um, and I could, um, you know, and again, it's like, like you're saying with the iPhone, one of the things they had to do to capture more people was give them more options.

00:49:24   And I think just choosing between some, like the two different sizes and case materials is not really enough or choose the old one.

00:49:35   Like, I don't really think that's necessarily enough to capture a larger slice of the potential Apple watch market.

00:49:42   What you would need to do or you would want to do is actually offer them purpose built products for different types of people.

00:49:48   Right.

00:49:49   And they, you know, they can do that.

00:49:52   That's the beauty of it, right?

00:49:53   Is that the stuff that Apple varies is mostly the software and the insides of the Apple watch, especially right.

00:50:02   Like it's, it's a platform on which you could build a bunch of different watches.

00:50:07   In fact, that's what the series to me, that's what the series nomenclature means is the fundamental technology.

00:50:16   So they could come out with a bunch of variants on the Apple watch series, whatever.

00:50:23   And say, here is, you know, extreme sport and here is diving and, you know, like they could do that.

00:50:31   And for fashion, for utility, like they could do that and, you know, you want to start small maybe, but I do like the idea that they use this as a platform and, and vary it.

00:50:44   Why not?

00:50:46   Why not do that?

00:50:46   Especially since in terms of support, it's all the same, right?

00:50:50   I feel like that's the concern is always, well, we do too many of these, we got to support all these different models, but like if they're all series seven, then you're not, you know, you have to support the different models.

00:51:00   I get it.

00:51:00   They're they're, they're slightly different in terms of their physical shape, but like in terms of what does it work with and all that stuff, it's just series seven or whatever.

00:51:08   And that is the same across all of them.

00:51:12   I think that's.

00:51:13   Uh, yeah, I'm looking forward to it.

00:51:15   I think this is a real important kind of generational step for the Apple watch to branch out.

00:51:20   So I hope they do it.

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00:53:47   So in honor of the 20th anniversary of Mac OS, I thought we could, uh, tackle a little Mac focus topic today.

00:53:56   And I thought that maybe something we could talk about is one of the most exciting things to happen to the Mac in a very long time, which is Apple Silicon.

00:54:04   What kind of, what, how we're enjoying it and how we're using our Apple Silicon powered Macs today, and then kind of looking ahead for 2021, 2022, how we think that could expand in our own personal use cases.

00:54:19   So how often are you using an M1 Mac now and which one?

00:54:26   So I have the MacBook Air and you know, my setup for a long time has been, I use my, I, my iMac pro at my desk.

00:54:35   And then when I'm in the rest of the house, I use my iPad pro and that's still true.

00:54:43   More or less.

00:54:44   Um, there is this little wedge in which the MacBook Air has, has fit itself into my life.

00:54:51   And it's mostly, that's good because it is a little wedge.

00:54:55   It is a little wedge.

00:54:56   Uh, it, it, uh, that's how they get you.

00:54:58   So it, um, some of it's for testing of like, let's see how this works in Apple Silicon.

00:55:03   That still happens.

00:55:04   But also what I found is it's the computer I am now using because I want some want to do something that is way easier to do on the Mac or can only be done on the Mac.

00:55:18   And I don't want to sit at my desk.

00:55:20   And that could be because I, uh, didn't turn it's the weekend and I didn't turn the heater on and it's cold in my office and I don't want to be cold or it's a beautiful day outside and I want to go outside.

00:55:30   Um, so that, you know, and again, this is the luxury of having two Macs is that I have the ability to do that.

00:55:37   What hasn't done is replace my iPad for most things.

00:55:41   It just, it hasn't done that because that's why I use my iPad is I prefer my iPad for those things.

00:55:47   I'd say the other thing that it's done is made me more confident or enthusiastic about bringing it.

00:55:53   Um, at versus my old Mac book air.

00:55:57   So remember what I mentioned earlier, um, when we went, when I went to, to, um, New York for that Apple product launch, the 16 inch Mac book pro, um, the, I had to bring my Mac book air with me because we were going to do podcasting and I, it was like.

00:56:16   Podcasting on a deadline.

00:56:17   Uh, didn't want to mess with it.

00:56:20   Right.

00:56:20   Like didn't want to mess with the, the weird iPad set up.

00:56:22   I would have to set up way easier to just bring the Mac book air for one task, which is recording that podcast.

00:56:28   Um, future versions of that, like when I went to the rental house for a week and we did a, we did a, uh, an upgrade from there.

00:56:37   I just bring the Mac book air now because it's, it's modern and fast and I trust it.

00:56:43   And it's not that big.

00:56:46   And so in a lot of cases, it's sort of like, cause I'm not on airplanes, right?

00:56:50   I I'm generally driving anywhere I go.

00:56:53   Um, and so I don't have any space considerations or bag considerations, and it's just sort of easy to bring this little tiny laptop and know that it's the entire podcast studio in one little space.

00:57:06   So it has done that.

00:57:08   Like my.

00:57:09   Devotion.

00:57:11   It'll be tested when I'm on planes again.

00:57:13   But for now, my devotion to the iPad recording studio where I have to do lots of stuff in order to get the iPad to record.

00:57:22   And even then it's sort of substandard versus what I can do on the Mac for now.

00:57:27   I've just sort of set that aside and I'm using the Mac book air for that because.

00:57:30   It's, you know, it's no longer a, the old Mac book air.

00:57:34   It was old and not updated and not great.

00:57:38   And, and I took it with more reluctance.

00:57:41   And this M one Mac book air it's fun and it's an opportunity to play with the M one Mac book air.

00:57:46   So I don't, um, I don't, I'm not reluctant at all to bring it around.

00:57:50   Were you using.

00:57:53   Like, is this replaced a Mac that you were using before then I replaced that old Mac book air with the new Mac book air.

00:58:01   Okay.

00:58:01   That's, that's what I did.

00:58:02   I, I still had the Mac book air that I brought with me when I left IDG.

00:58:05   Yeah.

00:58:06   So it was an i7, but it was a 2014 i7 early 2014.

00:58:12   So it was getting up there and back several iOS generations.

00:58:15   And every time I opened it, I opened it so rarely that it would have a slew of software updates that had to do and all of those things.

00:58:21   And I'm using this one a little more often, so I'm keeping it more up to date and obviously it's running the latest operating system and all of that.

00:58:27   Um, so yeah, it's a, it's a little different, but what it hasn't done is really wedge itself.

00:58:33   I I'll give one other point, which is when I'm writing about the Mac, it used to be a challenge.

00:58:39   If I want to write on my iPad because I want to change the scenery, I want to go outside or I want to stand in my kitchen and write on my iPad.

00:58:47   Um, the one kind of writing that's not that great on the iPad is when I'm very specifically writing about things that are happening on a Mac because I can't check them because I'm not on a Mac.

00:59:00   Right.

00:59:00   Well, what's the name of that menu?

00:59:01   What's the name of that preference?

00:59:03   Let's take a screenshot.

00:59:04   Can't do any of those things when I'm not on a Mac.

00:59:06   So there are times when I will write on it on the laptop, but they're generally when I'm writing something about the Mac and I'm like, I should just write this on the Mac because I need to reference the Mac.

00:59:17   And I have not so far gone that I bring up my iPad to write and keep the Mac next to me as a reference point.

00:59:23   That seems silly.

00:59:24   It does.

00:59:25   But you weren't doing this before.

00:59:29   No, before I would either, uh, write it and leave a lot of TKs in it saying, oh, you know, what's the name of this menu?

00:59:36   Look that up later, take a screenshot later.

00:59:38   Um, or I would, uh, I would return to my desk and just write it at my desk, even though I didn't want to be there because that was where the Mac was.

00:59:46   See laptops.

00:59:47   It's amazing.

00:59:48   Isn't it?

00:59:48   Like imagine a Mac you can take around with you, but like, I really love my iPad or my, uh, I'm at pro and the big screen.

00:59:55   And I love that mostly my Mac stuff happens at my desk in my office and not in the rest of the house, because it does provide a little, um, mental, uh, separation between.

01:00:05   Work, even though I do some work out in the house.

01:00:08   Um, it, it, it helps to have certain stuff where it's just that lives on the Mac and the Mac, you know, the Mac book air lives in here too.

01:00:17   I don't have it floating around in the house most of the time either.

01:00:22   I mean, I've made reference to it on the show recently, but my M1 MacBook Pro is my main computer now and has been since I bought it.

01:00:35   Lots of changes during lockdowns.

01:00:39   And even before that, I was finding myself drifting towards using the Mac as a larger percentage of my computing.

01:00:48   And then when the MacBook Pro came into my life, I was just in love with it immediately.

01:00:53   It was just so great.

01:00:54   And it's kind of strange in a way because I'm not sure if I can adequately tell you why this Mac makes, I find it such a joy to use.

01:01:07   But it's just really good in every possible way.

01:01:12   You know, like people say, oh, the battery life's so great.

01:01:14   Maybe, but I use mine plugged in all the time.

01:01:17   So, because I use my MacBook Pro in clamshell mode, right.

01:01:24   In multiple locations, either in my home office or in my studio when I can be there.

01:01:30   So I never really use it as a laptop.

01:01:32   Let me tell you, if I had a big retina external display, which I don't, I don't own an external display.

01:01:42   I, well, that's not true.

01:01:43   I have like a 15 inch external display.

01:01:45   That's like 10 years old, 15 years old.

01:01:47   I own an external display, a modern retina external display.

01:01:50   If I had one, it's possible I would use my MacBook Air all the time because it's so close in performance to the iMac Pro.

01:02:00   It's not quite there, but it's really close.

01:02:02   In all the things that I'm doing on my MacBook Pro, it handles it better than my iMac Pro, really.

01:02:08   You know, cause I'm not, you know, I'm still editing and recording and all that sort of stuff on my iMac Pro.

01:02:14   That's the same as it was before.

01:02:16   Um, because this is where all the gear is hooked up to and it's going to stay that way for the foreseeable future.

01:02:21   We'll talk about that in a minute.

01:02:22   And that might change.

01:02:23   But really my, my MacBook Pro is just my computer now.

01:02:27   And I really love it.

01:02:32   It's everything.

01:02:34   It can handle everything I throw at it.

01:02:35   And you know, I, and I'm enjoying using the Mac for what the Mac is good at, you know, like everything's there.

01:02:43   It's all available and I don't, I can multitask more easily.

01:02:48   Um, I do, I have things about multitasking on an iPad OS that I do still prefer to the Mac just visually.

01:02:56   Um, but I'm just, it basically was like there was a sliding scale going on of my iPad and Mac usage once I started working outside of home more.

01:03:08   And then this MacBook Pro just kind of tipped it over the edge.

01:03:12   And maybe we'll talk about this in a minute, but I don't know if it could change again.

01:03:17   Like I'm not so much like, oh, working from the iPad.

01:03:21   That's so stupid.

01:03:23   Right?

01:03:23   Like I'm not in that mode.

01:03:25   I kind of feel that way.

01:03:27   It's just, this is where I am right now.

01:03:29   And there could be something in an iPad Pro or iPad OS, uh, that could completely change this again.

01:03:36   But just for my current working setups, a Mac fits in it really nicely and it just so happened that like probably my favorite Mac that I've ever used came out.

01:03:47   Like the M1 MacBook Pro is as good, if not better than any Mac that I've ever used, not just from a capability perspective, but from my own kind of attachment to it.

01:04:00   You know, it really does remind me of the good 11 inch MacBook Air in how I feel about it, where a lot of the time I can't even, couldn't have even explained what it was that I loved about that computer.

01:04:13   It was just really great and fun to use.

01:04:16   So looking ahead, 2021, 2022, I'm keen to know from you kind of what device changes do you think you're going to go through?

01:04:29   Like what are you looking to replace?

01:04:32   This iMac Pro, it's good and I, and I love it, but there's going to be a time probably later this year where Apple is going to release a high-end iMac with Apple Silicon and it's not going to be an M1.

01:04:50   And it's going to be hard for me to say no to that.

01:04:53   Because it's likely that something's going to come along this year that is going to smoke this computer, like just obliterate it.

01:05:02   And it's, it's coming up four years old, three plus years old now, which, you know, it's gonna, it's got years of life left in it, honestly.

01:05:12   But for the stuff I do where I'm encoding audio and video and stuff like that, and also for being, you know, for using Apple Silicon, you know, I'm going to assume that an M2 or whatever, M1X, whatever it is, the next chip is going to, keeping in mind that this is the low end original.

01:05:34   Because the iMac Pro ended up with like eight and 10 and 12 and like lots of different core counts.

01:05:39   This is the $5,000 eight core cheapest iMac Pro.

01:05:44   So it's already slower than that MacBook Air in some measures.

01:05:51   In other measures, it's not.

01:05:53   And that's because it is an eight core Xeon and it's got a lot of capabilities.

01:05:58   But there are also things that Apple has done in the operating system and in the M1 chip where certain tasks, including like video encoding and stuff, like there's secret.

01:06:08   Special pathways that the Apple Silicon Macs get to do.

01:06:13   And the Xeon doesn't even have some of the secret special pathways that Intel builds in for encoding, right?

01:06:20   Because it's, it's not a consumer chip, it's a pro chip.

01:06:23   And so it's different.

01:06:23   So a lot of the stuff I work on, it is faster, but some of the stuff I do, it's slower than the Air.

01:06:30   So I, I fully anticipate that the next iMac that comes out is going to destroy it in terms of speed.

01:06:38   Because already the high end, the last high end Intel iMacs destroy it in terms of speed.

01:06:42   So I assume that that is going to be the thing that pulls me over and has me replace my iMac Pro.

01:06:52   I am open to the possibility of Apple, if Apple releases a standalone retina display, buying something else.

01:07:02   Well, could that something else be though?

01:07:04   Well, I mean, a standalone retina display.

01:07:08   For one.

01:07:09   Right.

01:07:09   But what does that plug into?

01:07:11   And that, well, and that's the question, right?

01:07:13   Like, like there are the rumors about like the little Mac Pro.

01:07:17   Um, but also there are, you know, the, even, you know, a Mac mini or, uh, or the MacBook Air, like there's possibilities there.

01:07:29   There's some possibilities there that would complicate things.

01:07:33   But right now, my, my gut feeling is, uh, iMac.

01:07:40   But, you know, there are, there are complications.

01:07:44   If there was a standalone retina display, I can maybe get a Mac mini and use that.

01:07:48   And then when there's a fancier standalone, you know, Mac device later on, I could roll that Mac mini in as my, as my new server.

01:07:56   Like I have options, but the one I'm watching as somebody who's using a big iMac is the big iMac.

01:08:03   That the, probably the M one rumored M one iMac is probably not going to be enough for me because I I'm used to the big iMac now.

01:08:13   But, um, but I'm watching it closely.

01:08:16   I don't think my iMac pro is going to survive 2021 as, as my primary Mac it'll, it'll get handed down or sold or donated or something, but I don't think it's going to make it.

01:08:27   Uh, I think I don't think it's going to be hovering over my desk on a new year's eve.

01:08:33   Yeah, I think we're in a similar boat.

01:08:34   Like I, I fully expect that I will have made a purchasing decision at least by the end of 2021 for what is my podcast production machine, you know, the beefiest machine in my lineup.

01:08:52   And I, and like you, I don't know what it's going to be.

01:08:55   I'm certain it's not the first iMacs that's shown off.

01:09:02   Yeah.

01:09:02   Right.

01:09:03   Um, I expect that this will be a product announced in the summer, whether it goes on sale in the summer or not.

01:09:10   I mean, cause really my idea will be that Apple announced the most powerful, uh, iMacs and the Mac pro the same time.

01:09:21   So I can make the decision with all of the information because I might want the little Mac pro.

01:09:32   Just because I think I would think it would be really cool if it's what I want it to be.

01:09:36   But if they release a high-end iMac, like with a new chip generation in it, you know, more powerful, that kind of stuff.

01:09:46   I think it would be really hard for me to resist it.

01:09:50   So, you know, because I love the iMac.

01:09:54   I love everything iMacs about.

01:09:55   I believe the iMacs going to go through a radical design change, which is going to make it desirable.

01:10:01   And if they have some version of it, that is the, the spiritual successor to the iMac pro, because I don't think there will be another iMac pro even in name, like it would just be iMac and just the top of the line iMac will be really powerful.

01:10:16   Um, or you will be able to spec it to be very powerful, right.

01:10:20   With whatever.

01:10:22   I don't know what, what it is you would change, but you know, uh, that's going to be a hard thing to, to resist because.

01:10:31   I know what the M1 can do and the M1 gets scarily close in output, but the thing is though my M1.

01:10:41   It's nicer to use logic.

01:10:44   Logic is more responsive in use on my M1 MacBook pro than it is on my iMac Pro.

01:10:52   But the reason I go with the iMac Pro is because the processing of things is faster.

01:10:58   And so, you know, I can live with the kind of jitteriness of logic, uh, but it frustrates me when I'm waiting around for things to happen.

01:11:07   And so I stick with using the iMac pro for this.

01:11:10   So, but I know that any iMac is going to be a step up in some ways than my current iMac is.

01:11:18   So.

01:11:18   I, whatever the most powerful one is going to be, that's going to be really tempting, but I'm just, I'm just not sure if that's going to be.

01:11:26   The machine that I will most want in the Mac lineup to replace this one.

01:11:30   It depends on what Apple's plans are.

01:11:32   I'm also really interested about what the next Mac pro's could look like, like the replacement for the 13.

01:11:41   I'm very intrigued about that one.

01:11:43   Yeah, there's a lot.

01:11:47   It's just, it feels like for anybody like us who is probably not willing to commit to having their entire Mac workflow today.

01:11:56   Go to an M one we're in that state where we're just waiting for the next thing that will do it.

01:12:05   And it's close, right?

01:12:07   Like again, it's close.

01:12:10   If I had a, a display comparable to my iPad or my iMac pro that I could use with my Mac book air, I might do it.

01:12:20   But, um, if they can increase the, the performance and then, you know, a new iMac and all of those things, then, then it gets really interesting.

01:12:29   So I'm, I'm hoping to, I'm hoping that this is the year I, I'm hoping that I don't get to the end of the year and I'm like, uh, it's none of this stuff is good enough.

01:12:37   I need to wait another year.

01:12:39   I'd really rather not.

01:12:40   It feels like that would be a surprise if that was the case.

01:12:45   Right.

01:12:45   I feel like I'll be surprised, but.

01:12:49   We will wait and see.

01:12:50   I think one of the reasons I am so into the Mac right now is because this is where all the excitement is for me, just like in, in talking about this stuff, looking at this stuff, following it as a fan, as much as as a person who needs to talk about it.

01:13:06   It really does feel like the most exciting prospects and the most exciting potential products that Apple will release over the next couple of years could well be Macs.

01:13:19   And I find that excitement hard to ignore.

01:13:22   Right.

01:13:22   So I am naturally gravitating towards these products more than, than some of the other stuff to do.

01:13:28   I really want the new iPad pros to blow me away because I love the iPad pro and have loved it since it started and I use it all the time, but I gotta be honest.

01:13:39   What's been rumored.

01:13:40   It's not that interesting.

01:13:41   No, it's not.

01:13:43   And for me, it has to be an accessory now because the rumors are, are like, okay, this looks really good, but I'm not like mega into this.

01:13:54   Yeah.

01:13:54   Whereas if they come out and they say, Oh, new iPad pro and it's got Thunderbolt and it supports external displays using this new software update.

01:14:04   And here's an external display that we, that we sell now.

01:14:07   That also works with your M one max.

01:14:10   Now I'm excited.

01:14:10   Right.

01:14:11   Then I would be excited.

01:14:13   And then there would be trouble in the incomparable incorporated bank account.

01:14:17   There would be trouble then, but, uh, you know, failing that it's going to be like, Yay, another year, another kind of minor iPad.

01:14:26   Like, and again, I don't want to, I'm not saying the iPad pro is bad cause it's not, in fact, the problem is that the iPad pro from 2018 was so good.

01:14:33   Fantastic.

01:14:34   That it's still so good.

01:14:37   Yep.

01:14:37   And the 2020 update kind of didn't do anything.

01:14:42   And even Apple admits it because Apple made the magic keyboard, which was the real interesting product work with the old ones, because it was pretty much just as good.

01:14:51   And the rumors about this one are like the big one will have a nicer screen.

01:14:54   Like again, it's not bad stuff and it's a great, great product, but it's also the fact that the 2018 model was so far ahead and they're not seemingly ready to take it.

01:15:05   Another leap forward.

01:15:08   I think in part, perhaps because they've been, they were so far ahead that they could be like, that's good for a while.

01:15:13   Let's focus on something else.

01:15:14   And the job of Apple is not to entertain me with iPad pro updates.

01:15:18   Right?

01:15:18   Like that's not ultimately, and this is where I think some people get angry at Apple for no good reason is their job is not for us to have things to talk about that are interesting.

01:15:26   Like their job is to make good products and sell them.

01:15:28   And the iPad pro 2018 was so good.

01:15:31   That they can, they can kind of coast on it for a while.

01:15:35   They really can.

01:15:36   Um, but on the Mac side, they seem to have focused a lot of attention on turning over that entire product line.

01:15:42   And so, yeah, that is really exciting to think about and talk about.

01:15:44   When it comes to the iPad pro though, I have, or the iPad in general, I have very high hopes for WWDC.

01:15:51   Like not hopes, expectations for a big iPad OS release this year, but that is a story for another day.

01:15:59   I think another day.

01:16:00   Today's episode is also brought to you by our friends at Ooni pizza ovens.

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01:17:16   Jason, do you need pizza making tips or if you got that all down?

01:17:19   I like to believe that I can always learn something new about pizza.

01:17:23   I like to believe that.

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01:18:34   Let's do some hashtag ask upgrade questions to finish off today's show.

01:18:39   The first comes from Fabrice who asks, I tried to use the Homepop mini as my Mac speaker, but found the Airplay two second delay very annoying and making it

01:18:51   unusable for video conferencing.

01:18:53   Is there a way around this?

01:18:54   I looked into this.

01:18:56   I don't think there is.

01:18:57   And it's, I find it really annoying.

01:18:58   I find this really annoying, Jason.

01:19:00   This is it.

01:19:00   This is, this is the Airplay delay is not great and it's made for playback of cash media or via sync.

01:19:08   And it it's yeah, this is the reason or one of the reasons why I'm still using, uh, an iPod Hi-Fi with an aux in plug from my headphone Jack on my.

01:19:18   I are my, uh, my Mac pro my, I'm at pro, sorry.

01:19:22   What am I doing on my Mac pro is, uh, there's no delay and I can use it for everything.

01:19:28   It's better.

01:19:30   Right.

01:19:30   And, and the, all of the Airplay stuff, you know, they, they try to work around it, but if you want instantaneous, it doesn't do it.

01:19:38   It just doesn't do it.

01:19:39   I just don't understand why the company that can give me the AirPods experience can't also give me the same experience with the HomePod mini.

01:19:52   Cause I've been using the HomePod mini when I'm at the studio, I have one of those at the studio and when I'm at the studio, I mean, using it as my speaker for my, uh, MacBook pro just like I'm watching videos or whatever.

01:20:03   And it's just really nice.

01:20:04   Cause it's a nice little speaker for that.

01:20:06   But I don't understand why they can't just do whatever connection they're using via Bluetooth plus the secret source for the HomePod when it's connected to a Mac.

01:20:18   Like it just feels like that makes much more sense because we have AirPods.

01:20:24   I mean, it's all just connected to the same product and it's doing, doing it fine.

01:20:29   Like I know that they want to have it be AirPlay or whatever that, and that's cool, but like there's so much space inside of that little thing.

01:20:36   Just throw a Bluetooth chip in there.

01:20:37   I don't know.

01:20:38   Like it's just a, it's just surprising to me that it really kind of makes it a crummy experience because like if you're watching video and you pause it, the audio keeps playing and then, you know, it's like, it's like a night.

01:20:54   It's a little bit of a nightmare to try and use them.

01:20:56   So it almost feels like you shouldn't be able to use them for Mac, like set it as your Mac.

01:21:04   Or, or that they should have a low latency mode or they should have some sort of a mode where certain stuff comes through the Mac speaker if you want instead, because it's low latency.

01:21:17   Like there, there are other things they could do, but yeah, it's, it's definitely a hole and the Mac.

01:21:22   Mac support of, of AirPlay and HomePods has never been very good and it's, it's still not disappointing.

01:21:32   Sam asks, if a person is deciding between the 11 inch and 12.9 inch iPad Pro, what are the key factors and usage patterns you recommend considering?

01:21:42   I'm thinking about replacing my 10.5 inch iPad Pro at some point and that larger screen is compelling, but will I lose the holdability?

01:21:50   So I want to make my pitch here for why I think the 11 inch iPad Pro is the better iPad Pro for most people.

01:22:00   So for me, in my usage, I think that the larger iPad Pro, its main focus is multiple apps at once.

01:22:10   Like that's its largest benefit because if when you put apps side by side with the bigger iPad, you get like a full, two full app experiences.

01:22:18   So like if you want to be using multitasking and all that kind of stuff, and if you are working on an iPad Pro, you want to be using multitasking.

01:22:27   It's amazing for that.

01:22:29   The keyboards are full size, so use the magic keyboard or the smart keyboard.

01:22:33   They are full size keyboards.

01:22:34   If you're writing a bunch on it, it's great for that.

01:22:35   The larger iPad Pro, I think is, I think it's, it's primary as a work device.

01:22:42   Like if you want to replace your laptop with an iPad, this is what you should go for.

01:22:46   Same for artists as well.

01:22:48   It's a bigger canvas.

01:22:49   So you benefit from that.

01:22:50   The larger iPad though, I think it is bigger.

01:22:55   It is less holdable.

01:22:56   It is heavier.

01:22:57   I think if you are using an iPad primarily for like, this is my secondary device.

01:23:05   This is a device where I maybe, uh, watch some videos.

01:23:09   I read some books, I read some comics, uh, that kind of stuff.

01:23:12   I think that the smaller iPad Pro is, is best for that.

01:23:16   If like, you can still work from the smaller one and I have and do, uh, when I used to travel a lot, that's the one I would take.

01:23:23   I would take the smaller one because it is easier to move around and you can do it.

01:23:27   All the keyboards are perfectly fine, but I was getting the smaller one in those instances for additional portability.

01:23:35   I almost kind of felt for me that the larger iPad was kind of a home device because of its size.

01:23:42   But I think that the larger one is best for working.

01:23:46   The smaller one is best if you want to also work on your iPad Pro, not replace your laptop with it.

01:23:54   That's my, uh, kind of the way that I come down with it too.

01:23:57   Yeah.

01:24:00   And I mean, I think you're reasonable.

01:24:02   Um, I think we've agreed on this podcast that the 11 inch iPad Pro is the better choice for most people.

01:24:10   Um, that said, I don't agree that the, that the larger one is, is about working with multiple apps at once.

01:24:19   I don't multitask that often.

01:24:20   When I do, it's nice to have that space, but, um, I do think typing on it, on the larger one, that software keyboard is way better.

01:24:29   And I think, you know, having apps have more space in general is really nice.

01:24:35   I get used to the size of the large iPad.

01:24:38   I am a surprised.

01:24:40   So, um, Lauren has the smaller iPad Pro and I pick it up and I think that I've picked up a little toy iPad.

01:24:49   And, um, so what I'm saying is you get used to it.

01:24:52   Um, everybody's different.

01:24:53   Everybody's tolerance for this is different.

01:24:55   I think you can use a 12.9 on its own and then you get used to it and you use it and you know, you, you have had both models.

01:25:05   So you go back and forth.

01:25:06   And so the differences are very clear to you, which gives you a unique opportunity to talk about their differences.

01:25:12   But I will say as somebody who committed to the 12.9 inch iPad Pro, um, I don't think about it being large.

01:25:19   I don't think about it being heavy.

01:25:20   I, it is what it is and I, and I love it.

01:25:23   So, um, I would say.

01:25:27   You need to ideally hold it in your hands and make a judgment about it, but it's great.

01:25:34   Um, and one of the reasons I bought it is for things like watching video and reading comics and things like that, where you've got a bigger screen.

01:25:41   It's that much nicer to have the bigger screen, but I will admit that the smaller one is, uh, probably going to be more popular with more people.

01:25:53   And that's fine because you really need to see the benefit in having that larger screen in order to pay more money and carry around a larger object everywhere you go.

01:26:04   Um, and even I am aware of its size in the sense that when there are rumors about larger iPads, my immediate response is, oh no, please no.

01:26:13   Like I really liked it when the 12.9 inch iPad Pro got a little bit smaller by shrinking the bezels rather than making the screen bigger.

01:26:24   That was really nice.

01:26:26   I don't need my iPad to get any bigger than it is, but I do like the larger iPad.

01:26:33   And Todd asks, if Apple brings back MagSafe, this is for the max, obviously, do you think it will be a cable with USB-C on the other end or will they go back to having an integrated power brick?

01:26:47   Well, the integrated power brick was terrible because it meant you couldn't use MagSafe with anything but Apple's brick, which then plugged into a wall.

01:26:56   And also meant that if you were, if you would have to take multiple power bricks, if you were going somewhere.

01:27:03   So, uh, I, I say, no, I think we're past that.

01:27:07   I don't think Apple's going to hardwire anything into a brick anymore.

01:27:10   I think we're in, we live in a world where there are little blocks with USB-C connectors in them and that's what it's going to be.

01:27:16   So I say no.

01:27:17   Um, and in fact, I have a theory, which is that Apple may actually try to put data on it.

01:27:26   So that in addition to plugging it into a power brick for charging, you could plug it in to say a monitor or a hub and it would pass through data as well.

01:27:36   So you use one cable for power and data.

01:27:38   Wouldn't that be nice?

01:27:39   But even failing that, even if it's just power, I feel like they're going to put it on a USB-C because, uh, they want all their power bricks to use USB-C.

01:27:51   If you would like to send in a question to help us close the show and to get the answers that you're looking for, just send out a tweet with the hashtag ask upgrade or use question mark ask upgrade in the relay FM members discord, which you can get access to.

01:28:04   If you support this show, go to get upgrade plus.com and you can sign up.

01:28:08   When you do, you will get not only access to lots of wonderful benefits from relay FM for being a member, but if you sign up at get upgrade plus.com, you will also get longer ad free versions.

01:28:22   Of every single episode of upgrade.

01:28:24   And we talk about lots of wonderful things on today's upgrade plus segment.

01:28:28   We're going to be talking about some suspected working from home changes and how that's going to be in the post pandemic world.

01:28:37   Talk about a little bit more about what we think Apple might do.

01:28:40   So go to get upgrade plus.com to sign up and you will get those awesome benefits for you.

01:28:47   And thank you, by the way, if you have, we really, really appreciate your support.

01:28:51   I would also like to thank uni, doordash and rogue amoeba for the support of this show.

01:28:56   And before we go, let me tell you about one other show here at relay FM clockwise, where hosts Dan Morin and Micah Sargent invite two guests every week from a diverse pool of tech professionals and cover four tech topics in 30 minutes.

01:29:10   Go to relay.fm/clockwise or search for clockwise wherever you get your podcasts.

01:29:15   And I have heard through the whispers in the wind that host emeritus Jason Snow is returning to clockwise this week.

01:29:22   Yes, I'm guest hosting clockwise this week.

01:29:27   Now those were those exact wins that I was talking about.

01:29:30   That was a dramatic re recreation of them.

01:29:33   If you'd like to find Jason online, you can find him at sixcolors.com the incomparable.com.

01:29:39   And Jason hosts many shows here at relay FM as I do to you go to relay.fm/shows to find those.

01:29:45   Jason is at JSNOW, J S N E double L.

01:29:48   I am at I'm Myke.

01:29:49   I am Y K E.

01:29:51   We'll be back next time.

01:29:53   Maybe next Monday, maybe before.

01:29:56   Who knows?

01:29:57   You'll find out if you stay subscribed to the show.

01:30:00   Thanks for listening.

01:30:01   Until then, say goodbye, Jason Snow.

01:30:03   Watch what you say, Myke.

01:30:05   And keep upgrading the show.

01:30:09   That's not how it goes.

01:30:10   Ah, missed it again.

01:30:11   [Music]

01:30:17   [Music]