00:00:08 ◼ ► From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 345. Today's show is brought to you by DoorDash,
00:00:15 ◼ ► Uni Pizza Ovens, and Loopback from Rogue Amoeba. My name is Myke Hurley and I am joined by Jason Snell. Hello, Jason Snell!
00:00:23 ◼ ► Six, seven, eight. Are we counting? Is that what we're doing? I love it when you do the numerology. I love it.
00:00:37 ◼ ► I have a #SnellTalk question, which is also follow out, and it comes from Ryan, and Ryan wants to know,
00:00:42 ◼ ► "Jason, what is your preferred device appearance, i.e. light mode, dark mode, or automatic switching, on your iPhone, iPad, and Mac?"
00:00:52 ◼ ► Oh boy. So last week on Connected, you fellows discussed your standard device preference options, whatever.
00:01:05 ◼ ► And the response was basically like, you were sort of one person on the dark mode side, one person on the light mode side, and then one person in the middle.
00:01:24 ◼ ► So I am dark mode on my iPhone, always. It's an OLED screen, it's beautiful in dark mode.
00:01:36 ◼ ► Because, you know, even when you put the Mac in dark mode, so many things are assumed that it's light.
00:01:44 ◼ ► Like, I'm looking at my Google Doc here, and like, it's just, you end up with these squares of just blasting whiteness in the middle of the dark mode.
00:02:17 ◼ ► Like Twitterific, which I use a lot, it's a dark theme and a light theme, and it changes automatically.
00:02:41 ◼ ► I'll put a link in the show notes if you want to participate in the connected mode survey.
00:03:14 ◼ ► If you'd like to send in a question to help us open a future episode of the show, just send out a tweet with the hashtag snow talk.
00:03:24 ◼ ► Last week was 20 years of Mac OS 10 and all of my Mac buddies, which includes you and Steven.
00:03:51 ◼ ► Honestly, but to be honest, it feels like the last couple of years, like last year and this year, it's just like lots of anniversaries in general, like big ones.
00:04:19 ◼ ► And so in that period from like 98 to 2001, what happened was they got their hardware act together on the Mac side.
00:04:33 ◼ ► So the iMac and they made the G three towers, you know, colorful plastic instead of boring beige.
00:04:42 ◼ ► I mean, I went through all of this when I was doing my 2020 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20 research.
00:04:57 ◼ ► So it was an interesting period, but it was really like a getting up to speed period in that first few years.
00:05:03 ◼ ► And keeping in mind, just for people who missed this, this is the 20th anniversary of OS 10 being released.
00:05:12 ◼ ► Apple bought Next in order to integrate OS 10 as their future operating system strategy or the next operating system as their future operating system strategy.
00:05:48 ◼ ► And yes, there was Rhapsody and Mac OS 10 server, which was very weird, both very weird.
00:05:54 ◼ ► And then there was the developer preview and developer preview next and next developer preview.
00:06:01 ◼ ► And then by the way, this fall will be the 20th anniversary of 10.1, which is the first version that I felt like you could actually stay booted into and use.
00:06:23 ◼ ► They were doing ghetto S 10 out the door and prop up the Mac in the meantime for it to be viable.
00:06:29 ◼ ► And so like the iMac and all the stuff they were doing the next phase though, of the Steve jobs return era was like the stuff that they could.
00:06:39 ◼ ► More strategically work on cause they weren't just trying to stay alive and get the bridge to the future.
00:06:50 ◼ ► Because that was a preference, not, not the black laptops, the silver laptops and they, and they worked on that and the iPod came out and that changed everything obviously.
00:07:00 ◼ ► And then the background they're working on a tablet that they decide is going to be a phone instead.
00:07:17 ◼ ► Um, so they found another gear in that, in that decade, but also just keep in mind that like, if you really look at it, it was like four or five years where when jobs came back.
00:07:33 ◼ ► Uh, I think because the iMac came out people that, that gave them something to focus on, but like, oh, it's 10.
00:08:00 ◼ ► But like, if you were living through it, it was like three plus years of Apple dithering, trying to find an answer for classic back OS and failing and then them buying next.
00:08:10 ◼ ► And then it was another three or four years before they actually shipped something that people could use.
00:08:26 ◼ ► Because when they, when they finally did ship that, that is the foundation for everything on the software side that they've done since more or less other than the iPod.
00:08:43 ◼ ► But like Mac, iPhone, iPod, or Mac, iPhone, iPad, Apple TV, Apple watch, home pod, I guess like, I mean, it's the Apple watch.
00:09:21 ◼ ► You know, I had this, I had this thought, I was just like walking around and thinking, okay,
00:09:30 ◼ ► It's like, it was never, it's like, you know, like I'm reminded of when they released, um, iOS 14 within 24 hours, right?
00:09:51 ◼ ► And the reason they won't do it that way is they're going to want to crow about whatever is great in their next OS releases.
00:09:56 ◼ ► And they're going to want to control the message, which is why they're going to, they're all, they're going to do like, that's the advantage of the WWDC format is you can.
00:10:05 ◼ ► Uh, sort of tell the big picture to people and make the big announcements, and then you can get into some details for developers and then you can like roll out the sessions and make the downloads available.
00:10:17 ◼ ► And so you can control the rollout of the information and control the message a little bit and they like that.
00:10:24 ◼ ► And so I think the, the format of the conference works even without the conference existing, but you are right.
00:10:31 ◼ ► They can do it whenever they can do it in June, they can do it in July, they can do it, you know, in August, they can do it whenever they want, but it'll probably my guess is it'll probably still be sometime in June.
00:10:41 ◼ ► Unclear whether it'll be back to early June or whether they're like, yeah, late June was fine.
00:10:54 ◼ ► It's, it's the one other than the iPhone, I guess it's the one event on Apple's calendar that really can't be done via a press release or just a quick video that drops on the, on the site.
00:11:09 ◼ ► Like, cause in the same way that they, you've got to give people some kind of notice because people need to block it into their work calendars and stuff.
00:11:16 ◼ ► You know, a lot of people that they take a big chunk of that week off to get up to speed with the new stuff so they can get working on it straight away.
00:11:25 ◼ ► Like it's a normal part of the flow and in the same way, uh, Apple need to be able to allocate their engineering resource for that period of time.
00:11:32 ◼ ► So, but you know what, what they do have now is like, they can just work out whenever is best for them.
00:11:49 ◼ ► So this year they've had an entire year to plan out when it's best for them, but they don't need to announce it in March because people don't need to plan travel.
00:11:57 ◼ ► And the only reason they announced it in March last year is because everyone was going, what the hell are they going to do?
00:12:03 ◼ ► So we'll find out, I reckon probably sometime in April, um, or maybe early May kind of when the day is and what the format is going to be.
00:12:15 ◼ ► I think the most important thing is for them to give people time to anticipate and to mark their calendar because they know their developers are going to be, um, consuming that kind of information.
00:12:36 ◼ ► I want to ask you actually, do you think that they will have an event or just release products by press release?
00:12:43 ◼ ► I mean, this is, I think going back to what I said about how WWDC and, uh, and I should, this is why people call it dub dub DC is because it's easier to say.
00:12:55 ◼ ► I don't want to call it that Myke, uh, developer conference, you could get away with it.
00:13:02 ◼ ► WWDC, the worldwide developer conference, which by the way, is annoying because worldwide is one word.
00:13:24 ◼ ► Worldwide developer conference, uh, and the iPhone event are the ones that you got to have, right?
00:13:56 ◼ ► Well, yeah, they could do a video and say, Hey, we got a Mac and an iPad and these tag things and yay.
00:14:40 ◼ ► So unless like you could do the iPad pro and the iMac together and say, behold, the power of Apple Silicon.
00:14:47 ◼ ► But you know, the traditional model where you kind of like do a store update and then throw out a, an accessory product and then throw out a, an iPad and throw out a Mac.
00:15:08 ◼ ► Why don't we on April 6th, roll out the iPad pro and on April 13th, roll out the Apple Silicon iMac and on April 20th, roll out AirTags or okay, we'll just roll them out in a press release on April 6th.
00:15:29 ◼ ► It allows you if you're Apple to brief journalists separately, it's separate lists anyway, but brief journalists separately on the two products, you get two product stories.
00:15:42 ◼ ► And if the, in terms of the video production, like literally it's separate videos anyway, right?
00:15:52 ◼ ► Everything else is going to be its own little segments that were produced separately anyway.
00:16:19 ◼ ► I went to that Mac book 16 inch, uh, uh, event in, well, not event media briefings in general.
00:16:31 ◼ ► Um, you know, they just, they just had people come for a briefing and then they announced the product.
00:16:46 ◼ ► Um, I don't know if it is better for them to roll out two products as discreet as an iPad pro and an iMac.
00:16:56 ◼ ► At the S at diff at the same time, unless they're part of the same story, unless they they're like, oh, but you don't understand.
00:17:08 ◼ ► And we want to explain like the iPad, but I think it's a stretch for an iPad pro and an iMac to have.
00:17:14 ◼ ► Will just make the, the counter argument that everyone else is making to you of a Twitter right now, which is the Apple watch iPad air event.
00:17:45 ◼ ► And I think it's worth having a moment to say, does it actually make sense or is it more like the momentum that has them?
00:17:58 ◼ ► Maybe they've decided that it's better to load up an event with announcements and get people buzzing about it and having lots of stuff to set one message that is, oh, Apple is just all over the place doing stuff.
00:18:25 ◼ ► Um, I think it comes down to internally their debate about, like, I assume they have debates about this stuff.
00:18:33 ◼ ► Um, the efficacy of a live stream as a product rollout for a product that is not a flagship product.
00:18:43 ◼ ► Even though, yes, it's all prerecorded, but you put it out live and the whole world tunes in at 10 AM Pacific and watches it.
00:19:05 ◼ ► I would say, well, you know, you never get the chance to have the entire eye of the world on you to wonder what you're doing and hang on your every word and talk about it on Twitter.
00:19:20 ◼ ► I, you know, although I, I guess my counter argument would be, why don't we just do two of them?
00:19:25 ◼ ► We'll do one this week and one next week, but the, the, the counter to that, see, I'm arguing with myself here, Myke would be people are going to get tired of it.
00:19:35 ◼ ► So ultimately I think it comes down to the value of that live stream and having it happen in the moment, which is as close as you're ever going to get in COVID era to having people hanging on to the words of an Apple executive on a stage somewhere on a live stream.
00:19:52 ◼ ► And if that works for you and you think that's more efficacious for your product rollout, then grabbing the headlines one week and then grabbing them again the next week and focusing it all on individual products, then that's the call.
00:20:13 ◼ ► I think that you could argue that the rolling thunder approach is, uh, is actually a better one for letting each individual product shine.
00:20:22 ◼ ► Well, I think whatever they're going to do, we're going to find out real soon because iOS 14.5 has been in beta for a while now.
00:20:31 ◼ ► And it includes a lot of stuff that they're surely itching to release, you know, like the mask thing, the app tracking, transparency thing, which I promise we will talk about at some point on this show.
00:20:42 ◼ ► Like it's just something that I wanted to, I want to talk about it with you, but I just haven't found our way in yet.
00:20:49 ◼ ► And I still have a theory that it may also include features we haven't seen, like how they included the pointer support.
00:21:03 ◼ ► I think that there is, there is clearly, I feel like a hold on 14.5 for the new hardware coming right.
00:21:12 ◼ ► And last week the most recent betas of iOS and MacOS came out and they both have references to unreleased iPad pro and iMac models.
00:21:22 ◼ ► So I think steam is starting to pick up and they clearly want to get this version of iOS out there, I believe.
00:21:39 ◼ ► And yeah, I will also say the most important thing is for them to announce and do a live stream of an event so that we can do a draft.
00:21:45 ◼ ► Because if they just drop a product, we can't draft, there's no drafting of like a press release that just got surprise posted.
00:21:58 ◼ ► So I mean, like we could, but we don't want to because that would require doing like a draft now.
00:22:03 ◼ ► For us, anything that could happen over the next six months, which I don't want to do that.
00:22:11 ◼ ► If they announce an event, whenever they do, we will do another emergency draft episode, because the assumption will be that they would stick to the it's happening next week
00:22:26 ◼ ► The reason we used to be able to fit the drafts in is they would give two weeks notice because people would have to make plans.
00:22:39 ◼ ► Some point over the next couple of weeks, there might be an additional draft episode as well.
00:23:02 ◼ ► Loopback gives you incredible power over how audio flows in your system and replaces hardware that can cost hundreds of dollars.
00:23:10 ◼ ► Honestly, trying to get these kinds of workflows in place before I'd found Loopback was incredibly time consuming and frustrating.
00:23:24 ◼ ► There are many times I have used Loopback myself to bring the audio of two microphones into my Mac, creating a single audio input for Skype, which is basically otherwise impossible.
00:23:35 ◼ ► So if you use a USB interface with microphones, Skype will only ever see one of them, no matter how many you plug in.
00:23:42 ◼ ► It's very frustrating, has caused me many hours of trying to fix things before I understood what the issue was.
00:23:51 ◼ ► And because Loopback is so clever, I can still record the audio separately of both of those microphones in an app like the wonderful Audio Hijack to get the recordings that I need,
00:24:07 ◼ ► And in this era of Zoom calls, Loopback has found incredible popularity being used to add audio to your system.
00:24:14 ◼ ► Like say if you wanted to add sound clips to your next family quiz, as well as improving the sound of your mic by teaming it up with Audio Hijack.
00:24:37 ◼ ► I think it's still true that Skype only will record even if you have a mixer with multiple microphones plugged into it.
00:24:58 ◼ ► I use that when I'm doing a soundboard, my microphone in Zoom or Skype becomes a Loopback interface, a Loopback input.
00:25:07 ◼ ► So it's combining my microphone and the output of another Rogomib app, Virago, that is the soundboard app.
00:25:18 ◼ ► So live video streams, especially of Total Party Kill, the tabletop, you know, actual play D&D podcast that I do over the incomparable.
00:25:27 ◼ ► We do live video of those and you end up with a scenario where I'm running OBS, let's say, a video app, right, for the live stream.
00:25:43 ◼ ► And the best way to do that is to use Loopback to do it, because then I mix those two things together and you only do it once.
00:25:54 ◼ ► And the contents are two things, the audio out of Zoom and the audio out of my microphone.
00:26:24 ◼ ► If you ever work for any audio, be it professionally or just for fun, you should check out Loopback.
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00:26:54 ◼ ► Once again, go to Mac audio dot com slash upgrade 21 and use the code upgrade 21 for 21 percent off.
00:27:17 ◼ ► Yeah, I have a very important update, Myke, which is just that after all my complaining about 25, 25, 25, 25,
00:27:23 ◼ ► 24, 24, 24, the Paramount Plus taking 60 minutes, a show that's been on the air for 50 years and sorting all of its
00:27:30 ◼ ► episodes by episode number without including the season to differentiate them has three, four weeks after the
00:27:57 ◼ ► However, I do have a new Paramount Plus complaint since we're detailing the, uh, the problems of, of this
00:28:12 ◼ ► In the 60 minutes clips is burned into the video file rather than being part of the ad breaks.
00:28:19 ◼ ► So if you're on the no ad version, you still get the, uh, we'll, we'll more of this story after this.
00:28:32 ◼ ► Um, but there's, uh, another issue that they've got that similar we've been watching the stand, which is a
00:28:44 ◼ ► And we, in fact, we ended up leaving the app and we, uh, we come back later and the app says, oh, you're at.
00:28:55 ◼ ► And you think what it's going to do, like every other, literally every other streaming app ever, when you click
00:29:07 ◼ ► What Paramount plus instead does is play the same video that it plays when you start a show saying that this is a
00:29:32 ◼ ► I hope it's a bug that even when you resume a show, it does the, you know, ego logo play, uh, before it drops
00:29:41 ◼ ► So imagine if you were watching a Netflix show and you went away and you came back and you said resume, and
00:29:54 ◼ ► So I don't know what's going on over there, but, uh, but I think at this point Paramount is just introducing
00:30:06 ◼ ► Well, I think the truth is that they spent, they've spent the last three months rebranding their older technology
00:30:26 ◼ ► Black Widow and Cruella will be coming to Disney plus and theaters simultaneously Cruella in May and Black
00:30:38 ◼ ► So $30 when they hit Disney plus clearly Disney, uh, they got, they got tired of waiting for Black Widow.
00:30:52 ◼ ► I don't know why they didn't do it a long time ago, but they finally saw sense and they're going to be releasing
00:31:12 ◼ ► Um, I think, and I think I've said it on the show before, but I know I've said it in my personal life a lot,
00:31:18 ◼ ► which is in the last year, what we've learned is that if anybody bets the, um, under on COVID bet the over, like
00:31:28 ◼ ► And here is another example that we're just like, well, maybe, maybe if we pushed it back a little more, push it
00:31:35 ◼ ► And finally they've reached the point, Black Widow, it's like a year out now from, from where they, where they
00:31:55 ◼ ► We hope that means that there are more people in movie theaters, but even if they aren't, they aren't, uh, it'll
00:32:07 ◼ ► Um, this is Disney busting the, the theater model with home viewing for theater prices, which is not what
00:32:29 ◼ ► And, um, you know, a lot of these companies are just trying to figure out how do you deal with the fact that theaters
00:32:40 ◼ ► So I think it's still a big moment because Black Widow, any Marvel franchise, they they're designed to make lots
00:32:51 ◼ ► And so for them to take it and put it and not as a Disney plus throw in, but to, to, you know, they're going to do
00:32:58 ◼ ► the same thing they did with Milan, but, but still, but still let people have a way to see it.
00:33:04 ◼ ► And I would almost bet you that that's how I'll see it is that my family and I will gather together and we'll pay
00:33:13 ◼ ► It's just kind of funny in a way that in July, there will be more movie theaters open than any other point in the
00:33:23 ◼ ► last six to nine months, but they're still going to release it in on Disney plus cause they have to, right?
00:33:29 ◼ ► Cause it's, it's not about these places being open even it's what is people want to do.
00:33:56 ◼ ► Cruella I do want to see, but I don't know if that is a movie that I'll pay the money for rather than just
00:34:33 ◼ ► Because I I'm sure Disney would like Pixar to make money in theaters, but I think also what's going on here is Disney
00:34:40 ◼ ► recognizing that one of Disney plus is big advantages over other streaming services is the Disney brand as something
00:34:47 ◼ ► that appeals to families and adding Pixar movies in, uh, to Disney plus just adds to Disney plus is credibility.
00:35:03 ◼ ► And, um, I think in the long run, Pixar is not going to be a Disney plus only studio, but this is an example where like Pixar,
00:35:28 ◼ ► That, that Pixar movies for now are sort of like, okay, we'll just put those on Disney plus.
00:35:32 ◼ ► And I think, I think it's about the appeal of the family, um, family audience to Disney plus as a service.
00:35:38 ◼ ► I also think it's just been a matter of what Pixar had because the Pixar movies they've released this way.
00:36:06 ◼ ► I think it's just the case of like, maybe they think people wouldn't necessarily pay for the $30 for something that they're unsure of and maybe more people will watch them and it will maybe we'll get more buzz if it can be seen for free.
00:36:21 ◼ ► But I would expect that any, if they would have had any, um, of these like movies that were of existing successful properties, you would have had to pay for them.
00:36:36 ◼ ► They've made a deal with Cineworld and Regal to actually show that 2021 movie slate in places where theaters can open.
00:36:45 ◼ ► So if you want to see it in a theater or don't have HBO max, you could go see it in a theater.
00:36:49 ◼ ► And then going forward from, uh, 2022 onwards, they're going to be guaranteeing a 45 day exclusivity window.
00:36:56 ◼ ► So this is the case of the cinemas being like, Hey, don't you go get any ideas and one or a set.
00:37:05 ◼ ► Yeah, this is, I think this is part of the fallout of the, the complaints about it too, where they were like, well, this is for 21 and not, and we don't know about 22 and they're saying no, no, no, seriously in 22.
00:37:17 ◼ ► Although the fact that it's a 45 day exclusivity window, like this is the, this is where we're headed, right?
00:37:23 ◼ ► They're still going to be in theaters, but the window is going to be much more limited, uh, when there's a window and when there's not a window, what it's going to be is like.
00:37:32 ◼ ► I think that's going to be the model is either the movie is in theaters or you can pay $30 to watch it at home, or the movie is going to be in theaters for a short period of time.
00:37:44 ◼ ► Like, I feel like that's inevitable, the shortening of the window or perhaps the replacement of the window with like a combination of theater plus expensive at home.
00:37:54 ◼ ► Do you think that this may possibly suggest that HBO max didn't shoot through the roof with their movie thing that they did?
00:38:08 ◼ ► I think that my understanding is HBO max has actually done pretty well by having all these premiers in there and will continue to over the course.
00:38:14 ◼ ► I, I think, I think it's a combination of, um, again, it's the, it's the hope that the, that the theater.
00:38:24 ◼ ► Experience is going to be back in 2022 to the point where they can make the money that they expected to make.
00:38:31 ◼ ► And, um, and in 21, I think it's the idea that things have maybe gotten a little bit better with vaccines, especially that they're going to get more people in seats later in 2021.
00:38:40 ◼ ► So you might as well make that deal so that, that theaters need things to show and you want your product to be in those theaters.
00:38:46 ◼ ► Um, so even if it's on HBO max, not everybody has HBO max, not everybody wants a TV experience when they w they can go to a movie theater if they're comfortable with it.
00:38:54 ◼ ► So I think they're just trying to, um, gauge the, uh, the way, I mean, it's a big corporation.
00:39:02 ◼ ► They're trying to gauge the way to maximize revenue and they're hoping that they can maximize revenue again in 2022 by putting things in theaters exclusively.
00:39:11 ◼ ► Like I'm, I'm really fascinated about what Disney is going to do with their, their stuff that currently is premiere access release like black widow.
00:39:23 ◼ ► Are they going to be confident enough in theater for it to just be theater only for awhile?
00:39:28 ◼ ► Are they going to be not confident in theater so that they do premiere access or are they going to split the difference and offer like premiere access three weeks after it's in theaters or something, something that, that really is, um, uh, you know, the next Marvel movie, the next long delayed Marvel movie.
00:40:08 ◼ ► Mark Gurman is reporting that Apple has been working on a quote rugged Apple watch for extreme sports and athletes, hikers, and others who've used the device in more extreme environments.
00:40:23 ◼ ► This is a product in consideration for either this year on next year and will be an additional model, but would likely feature better impact resistance and increased protection, possibly rubber and or plastic for the casing.
00:40:53 ◼ ► They're not going to really change the functionality of it, but why would you not make more versions available?
00:41:00 ◼ ► The idea that originally there was an iPhone and now Apple has a whole range of iPhones for you to choose from, right?
00:41:07 ◼ ► Like having a, uh, a sport Apple watch, you know, that is, that is rugged and padded and it's more, you know, robust than the existing Apple watches.
00:41:21 ◼ ► And that'll be a choice based on people wear it based on usage, but also based on look.
00:41:29 ◼ ► And I have to assume that they've also heard if this product is real, um, that they've also gotten feedback from Apple watch users who are like, yeah, well, my problem with the Apple watch is I, and then they tell a story about how they destroyed their Apple watch doing something.
00:41:59 ◼ ► And I, my, my guess is that the people who are, who are either destroying their Apple watches or taking their Apple watches off because they don't want to destroy them is a teeny tiny percentage.
00:42:05 ◼ ► And then around that seed is other people who don't do that, but aspire to that level of activity.
00:42:12 ◼ ► And then around that is, uh, another slice that is, uh, that's the wrong metaphor, but.
00:42:18 ◼ ► Another layer that is, uh, people who just like the look and like feeling like they got the big, you know, they put the extra big tires on their truck.
00:42:36 ◼ ► And this makes total sense to me that you wouldn't want every Apple watch to be like that, but the Apple watch is old.
00:42:46 ◼ ► And this, you know, and it also, yes, it makes more sense than a, a gold, a solid gold Apple watch.
00:42:53 ◼ ► The report on Bloomberg references, the Casio Casio G shock, which I have one of those Steven bought me one for my birthday.
00:43:04 ◼ ► I'm not wearing it because I'm going on a bicycle and flying down the side of a mountain.
00:43:22 ◼ ► Like, I, I agree with what you're saying that more Apple watches to appeal to more aesthetics is a, I think a very important thing for this.
00:43:44 ◼ ► But watches, I mean, this is the thing I've said a million times, watches are a style choice and I don't particularly love the look of the Apple watch.
00:43:55 ◼ ► Um, I might actually like it more if it leaned into the fact that it's not this sleek thing.
00:44:08 ◼ ► So I would like it to lean into the fact that it isn't right and be chunky and bright and all that kind of stuff as a rugged watch.
00:44:17 ◼ ► And I think they, you got to start somewhere and they started by focusing on the core product and by defining the, uh, the core product, but eventually you have to get beyond that.
00:44:32 ◼ ► I do wonder though, if they actually need to make a specific watch for this, or if it could be an accessory for existing watches, like a little case that you snap on, but I guess if they made it its own thing, they could give it specific features for this type of watch that make it more practical for people that wear it.
00:44:55 ◼ ► It would not surprise me if they, if they made a, uh, a sports watch and had some custom faces or stuff like that.
00:45:04 ◼ ► Just to be like, aha, and you get this because they've, we've seen them do that with other product variants on Apple watch.
00:45:11 ◼ ► But yeah, I think it's, I think it's a great idea now that they've got the core watch down.
00:45:17 ◼ ► Um, it's, it's probably past time, but like it's definitely time for them to, to do variations on it.
00:45:23 ◼ ► And I feel like Apple of the last few years has really embraced the idea that you provide more options because people don't always want this, you know, core model.
00:45:45 ◼ ► And I know people will often get Apple a hard time and they're like, Oh, remember back when there was four products in a square and now they've got all these different product variations.
00:45:59 ◼ ► Kind of ill-defined products, but like there is a lot to be said for saying we have four iPhones and, or five or six, depending, uh, and choose the one that has the price and the features that work for you as somebody who is using a little iPhone right now.
00:46:46 ◼ ► And going back to what you were saying about the quadrant thing, the reason Apple had to do the quadrant is because they had loads of products and loads of those products were really bad.
00:46:57 ◼ ► Like we have a lot of work to do, so let's simplify the amount of products that we offer.
00:47:12 ◼ ► Like I can tell you what the difference is between those four iPhone models and really five or six iPhone models.
00:47:18 ◼ ► Like they're, they are clearly different and there is some customer confusion that happens.
00:47:28 ◼ ► And I feel like Apple is pretty good at helping people through the confusion, but the trade-off is even for a little more customer confusion is you create a product that's going to take another slice out of the market and convince them that this is the.
00:47:49 ◼ ► Like they've, as you said, they've had multiple versions of the watch before, but they haven't really been clearly defined.
00:47:56 ◼ ► Uh, I feel like, you know, like if even when you're going back to say, when they have the sport model and the Apple watch model, they had different features, like the glass was different and stuff like that as well as some of the body materials.
00:48:21 ◼ ► So, you know, bringing back the sport model or I saw some people call it like ref, maybe like the Explorer model, which I also kind of like, I think either of those will work well.
00:48:31 ◼ ► And plus the Apple watch now is so much more built to be used in these environments, like even just having the cell coverage, right?
00:48:42 ◼ ► Like that if you were out in the wilderness and you've got yourself into some trouble, well, you could just call emergency services, right?
00:48:49 ◼ ► Like it's, it really is a very cool product for this and they could add a feature or two that made it make more sense, even still as well as just changing the case.
00:49:00 ◼ ► And then we could have like something that's really kind of a purpose built for a certain type of use case and why not?
00:49:13 ◼ ► Um, and I could, um, you know, and again, it's like, like you're saying with the iPhone, one of the things they had to do to capture more people was give them more options.
00:49:24 ◼ ► And I think just choosing between some, like the two different sizes and case materials is not really enough or choose the old one.
00:49:35 ◼ ► Like, I don't really think that's necessarily enough to capture a larger slice of the potential Apple watch market.
00:49:42 ◼ ► What you would need to do or you would want to do is actually offer them purpose built products for different types of people.
00:49:53 ◼ ► Is that the stuff that Apple varies is mostly the software and the insides of the Apple watch, especially right.
00:50:07 ◼ ► In fact, that's what the series to me, that's what the series nomenclature means is the fundamental technology.
00:50:23 ◼ ► And say, here is, you know, extreme sport and here is diving and, you know, like they could do that.
00:50:31 ◼ ► And for fashion, for utility, like they could do that and, you know, you want to start small maybe, but I do like the idea that they use this as a platform and, and vary it.
00:50:50 ◼ ► I feel like that's the concern is always, well, we do too many of these, we got to support all these different models, but like if they're all series seven, then you're not, you know, you have to support the different models.
00:51:00 ◼ ► They're they're, they're slightly different in terms of their physical shape, but like in terms of what does it work with and all that stuff, it's just series seven or whatever.
00:51:15 ◼ ► I think this is a real important kind of generational step for the Apple watch to branch out.
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00:53:47 ◼ ► So in honor of the 20th anniversary of Mac OS, I thought we could, uh, tackle a little Mac focus topic today.
00:53:56 ◼ ► And I thought that maybe something we could talk about is one of the most exciting things to happen to the Mac in a very long time, which is Apple Silicon.
00:54:04 ◼ ► What kind of, what, how we're enjoying it and how we're using our Apple Silicon powered Macs today, and then kind of looking ahead for 2021, 2022, how we think that could expand in our own personal use cases.
00:54:26 ◼ ► So I have the MacBook Air and you know, my setup for a long time has been, I use my, I, my iMac pro at my desk.
00:54:44 ◼ ► Um, there is this little wedge in which the MacBook Air has, has fit itself into my life.
00:54:58 ◼ ► So it, um, some of it's for testing of like, let's see how this works in Apple Silicon.
00:55:04 ◼ ► But also what I found is it's the computer I am now using because I want some want to do something that is way easier to do on the Mac or can only be done on the Mac.
00:55:20 ◼ ► And that could be because I, uh, didn't turn it's the weekend and I didn't turn the heater on and it's cold in my office and I don't want to be cold or it's a beautiful day outside and I want to go outside.
00:55:30 ◼ ► Um, so that, you know, and again, this is the luxury of having two Macs is that I have the ability to do that.
00:55:41 ◼ ► It just, it hasn't done that because that's why I use my iPad is I prefer my iPad for those things.
00:55:47 ◼ ► I'd say the other thing that it's done is made me more confident or enthusiastic about bringing it.
00:55:57 ◼ ► So remember what I mentioned earlier, um, when we went, when I went to, to, um, New York for that Apple product launch, the 16 inch Mac book pro, um, the, I had to bring my Mac book air with me because we were going to do podcasting and I, it was like.
00:56:22 ◼ ► I would have to set up way easier to just bring the Mac book air for one task, which is recording that podcast.
00:56:28 ◼ ► Um, future versions of that, like when I went to the rental house for a week and we did a, we did a, uh, an upgrade from there.
00:56:53 ◼ ► Um, and so I don't have any space considerations or bag considerations, and it's just sort of easy to bring this little tiny laptop and know that it's the entire podcast studio in one little space.
00:57:13 ◼ ► But for now, my devotion to the iPad recording studio where I have to do lots of stuff in order to get the iPad to record.
00:57:41 ◼ ► And this M one Mac book air it's fun and it's an opportunity to play with the M one Mac book air.
00:57:53 ◼ ► Like, is this replaced a Mac that you were using before then I replaced that old Mac book air with the new Mac book air.
00:58:15 ◼ ► And every time I opened it, I opened it so rarely that it would have a slew of software updates that had to do and all of those things.
00:58:21 ◼ ► And I'm using this one a little more often, so I'm keeping it more up to date and obviously it's running the latest operating system and all of that.
00:58:27 ◼ ► Um, so yeah, it's a, it's a little different, but what it hasn't done is really wedge itself.
00:58:33 ◼ ► I I'll give one other point, which is when I'm writing about the Mac, it used to be a challenge.
00:58:39 ◼ ► If I want to write on my iPad because I want to change the scenery, I want to go outside or I want to stand in my kitchen and write on my iPad.
00:58:47 ◼ ► Um, the one kind of writing that's not that great on the iPad is when I'm very specifically writing about things that are happening on a Mac because I can't check them because I'm not on a Mac.
00:59:06 ◼ ► So there are times when I will write on it on the laptop, but they're generally when I'm writing something about the Mac and I'm like, I should just write this on the Mac because I need to reference the Mac.
00:59:17 ◼ ► And I have not so far gone that I bring up my iPad to write and keep the Mac next to me as a reference point.
00:59:29 ◼ ► No, before I would either, uh, write it and leave a lot of TKs in it saying, oh, you know, what's the name of this menu?
00:59:38 ◼ ► Um, or I would, uh, I would return to my desk and just write it at my desk, even though I didn't want to be there because that was where the Mac was.
00:59:48 ◼ ► Like imagine a Mac you can take around with you, but like, I really love my iPad or my, uh, I'm at pro and the big screen.
00:59:55 ◼ ► And I love that mostly my Mac stuff happens at my desk in my office and not in the rest of the house, because it does provide a little, um, mental, uh, separation between.
01:00:08 ◼ ► Um, it, it, it helps to have certain stuff where it's just that lives on the Mac and the Mac, you know, the Mac book air lives in here too.
01:00:22 ◼ ► I mean, I've made reference to it on the show recently, but my M1 MacBook Pro is my main computer now and has been since I bought it.
01:00:39 ◼ ► And even before that, I was finding myself drifting towards using the Mac as a larger percentage of my computing.
01:00:48 ◼ ► And then when the MacBook Pro came into my life, I was just in love with it immediately.
01:00:54 ◼ ► And it's kind of strange in a way because I'm not sure if I can adequately tell you why this Mac makes, I find it such a joy to use.
01:01:32 ◼ ► Let me tell you, if I had a big retina external display, which I don't, I don't own an external display.
01:01:50 ◼ ► If I had one, it's possible I would use my MacBook Air all the time because it's so close in performance to the iMac Pro.
01:02:02 ◼ ► In all the things that I'm doing on my MacBook Pro, it handles it better than my iMac Pro, really.
01:02:08 ◼ ► You know, cause I'm not, you know, I'm still editing and recording and all that sort of stuff on my iMac Pro.
01:02:16 ◼ ► Um, because this is where all the gear is hooked up to and it's going to stay that way for the foreseeable future.
01:02:35 ◼ ► And you know, I, and I'm enjoying using the Mac for what the Mac is good at, you know, like everything's there.
01:02:48 ◼ ► Um, I do, I have things about multitasking on an iPad OS that I do still prefer to the Mac just visually.
01:02:56 ◼ ► Um, but I'm just, it basically was like there was a sliding scale going on of my iPad and Mac usage once I started working outside of home more.
01:03:12 ◼ ► And maybe we'll talk about this in a minute, but I don't know if it could change again.
01:03:29 ◼ ► And there could be something in an iPad Pro or iPad OS, uh, that could completely change this again.
01:03:36 ◼ ► But just for my current working setups, a Mac fits in it really nicely and it just so happened that like probably my favorite Mac that I've ever used came out.
01:03:47 ◼ ► Like the M1 MacBook Pro is as good, if not better than any Mac that I've ever used, not just from a capability perspective, but from my own kind of attachment to it.
01:04:00 ◼ ► You know, it really does remind me of the good 11 inch MacBook Air in how I feel about it, where a lot of the time I can't even, couldn't have even explained what it was that I loved about that computer.
01:04:16 ◼ ► So looking ahead, 2021, 2022, I'm keen to know from you kind of what device changes do you think you're going to go through?
01:04:32 ◼ ► This iMac Pro, it's good and I, and I love it, but there's going to be a time probably later this year where Apple is going to release a high-end iMac with Apple Silicon and it's not going to be an M1.
01:04:53 ◼ ► Because it's likely that something's going to come along this year that is going to smoke this computer, like just obliterate it.
01:05:02 ◼ ► And it's, it's coming up four years old, three plus years old now, which, you know, it's gonna, it's got years of life left in it, honestly.
01:05:12 ◼ ► But for the stuff I do where I'm encoding audio and video and stuff like that, and also for being, you know, for using Apple Silicon, you know, I'm going to assume that an M2 or whatever, M1X, whatever it is, the next chip is going to, keeping in mind that this is the low end original.
01:05:34 ◼ ► Because the iMac Pro ended up with like eight and 10 and 12 and like lots of different core counts.
01:05:58 ◼ ► But there are also things that Apple has done in the operating system and in the M1 chip where certain tasks, including like video encoding and stuff, like there's secret.
01:06:13 ◼ ► And the Xeon doesn't even have some of the secret special pathways that Intel builds in for encoding, right?
01:06:23 ◼ ► So a lot of the stuff I work on, it is faster, but some of the stuff I do, it's slower than the Air.
01:06:30 ◼ ► So I, I fully anticipate that the next iMac that comes out is going to destroy it in terms of speed.
01:06:38 ◼ ► Because already the high end, the last high end Intel iMacs destroy it in terms of speed.
01:06:42 ◼ ► So I assume that that is going to be the thing that pulls me over and has me replace my iMac Pro.
01:06:52 ◼ ► I am open to the possibility of Apple, if Apple releases a standalone retina display, buying something else.
01:07:17 ◼ ► Um, but also there are, you know, the, even, you know, a Mac mini or, uh, or the MacBook Air, like there's possibilities there.
01:07:48 ◼ ► And then when there's a fancier standalone, you know, Mac device later on, I could roll that Mac mini in as my, as my new server.
01:07:56 ◼ ► Like I have options, but the one I'm watching as somebody who's using a big iMac is the big iMac.
01:08:03 ◼ ► That the, probably the M one rumored M one iMac is probably not going to be enough for me because I I'm used to the big iMac now.
01:08:16 ◼ ► I don't think my iMac pro is going to survive 2021 as, as my primary Mac it'll, it'll get handed down or sold or donated or something, but I don't think it's going to make it.
01:08:34 ◼ ► Like I, I fully expect that I will have made a purchasing decision at least by the end of 2021 for what is my podcast production machine, you know, the beefiest machine in my lineup.
01:09:03 ◼ ► Um, I expect that this will be a product announced in the summer, whether it goes on sale in the summer or not.
01:09:10 ◼ ► I mean, cause really my idea will be that Apple announced the most powerful, uh, iMacs and the Mac pro the same time.
01:09:21 ◼ ► So I can make the decision with all of the information because I might want the little Mac pro.
01:09:32 ◼ ► Just because I think I would think it would be really cool if it's what I want it to be.
01:09:36 ◼ ► But if they release a high-end iMac, like with a new chip generation in it, you know, more powerful, that kind of stuff.
01:09:55 ◼ ► I believe the iMacs going to go through a radical design change, which is going to make it desirable.
01:10:01 ◼ ► And if they have some version of it, that is the, the spiritual successor to the iMac pro, because I don't think there will be another iMac pro even in name, like it would just be iMac and just the top of the line iMac will be really powerful.
01:10:22 ◼ ► I don't know what, what it is you would change, but you know, uh, that's going to be a hard thing to, to resist because.
01:10:31 ◼ ► I know what the M1 can do and the M1 gets scarily close in output, but the thing is though my M1.
01:10:58 ◼ ► And so, you know, I can live with the kind of jitteriness of logic, uh, but it frustrates me when I'm waiting around for things to happen.
01:11:10 ◼ ► So, but I know that any iMac is going to be a step up in some ways than my current iMac is.
01:11:18 ◼ ► I, whatever the most powerful one is going to be, that's going to be really tempting, but I'm just, I'm just not sure if that's going to be.
01:11:32 ◼ ► I'm also really interested about what the next Mac pro's could look like, like the replacement for the 13.
01:11:47 ◼ ► It's just, it feels like for anybody like us who is probably not willing to commit to having their entire Mac workflow today.
01:11:56 ◼ ► Go to an M one we're in that state where we're just waiting for the next thing that will do it.
01:12:10 ◼ ► If I had a, a display comparable to my iPad or my iMac pro that I could use with my Mac book air, I might do it.
01:12:20 ◼ ► But, um, if they can increase the, the performance and then, you know, a new iMac and all of those things, then, then it gets really interesting.
01:12:29 ◼ ► So I'm, I'm hoping to, I'm hoping that this is the year I, I'm hoping that I don't get to the end of the year and I'm like, uh, it's none of this stuff is good enough.
01:12:50 ◼ ► I think one of the reasons I am so into the Mac right now is because this is where all the excitement is for me, just like in, in talking about this stuff, looking at this stuff, following it as a fan, as much as as a person who needs to talk about it.
01:13:06 ◼ ► It really does feel like the most exciting prospects and the most exciting potential products that Apple will release over the next couple of years could well be Macs.
01:13:22 ◼ ► So I am naturally gravitating towards these products more than, than some of the other stuff to do.
01:13:28 ◼ ► I really want the new iPad pros to blow me away because I love the iPad pro and have loved it since it started and I use it all the time, but I gotta be honest.
01:13:43 ◼ ► And for me, it has to be an accessory now because the rumors are, are like, okay, this looks really good, but I'm not like mega into this.
01:13:54 ◼ ► Whereas if they come out and they say, Oh, new iPad pro and it's got Thunderbolt and it supports external displays using this new software update.
01:14:17 ◼ ► There would be trouble then, but, uh, you know, failing that it's going to be like, Yay, another year, another kind of minor iPad.
01:14:26 ◼ ► Like, and again, I don't want to, I'm not saying the iPad pro is bad cause it's not, in fact, the problem is that the iPad pro from 2018 was so good.
01:14:42 ◼ ► And even Apple admits it because Apple made the magic keyboard, which was the real interesting product work with the old ones, because it was pretty much just as good.
01:14:54 ◼ ► Like again, it's not bad stuff and it's a great, great product, but it's also the fact that the 2018 model was so far ahead and they're not seemingly ready to take it.
01:15:08 ◼ ► I think in part, perhaps because they've been, they were so far ahead that they could be like, that's good for a while.
01:15:18 ◼ ► Like that's not ultimately, and this is where I think some people get angry at Apple for no good reason is their job is not for us to have things to talk about that are interesting.
01:15:36 ◼ ► Um, but on the Mac side, they seem to have focused a lot of attention on turning over that entire product line.
01:15:44 ◼ ► When it comes to the iPad pro though, I have, or the iPad in general, I have very high hopes for WWDC.
01:15:51 ◼ ► Like not hopes, expectations for a big iPad OS release this year, but that is a story for another day.
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01:18:39 ◼ ► The first comes from Fabrice who asks, I tried to use the Homepop mini as my Mac speaker, but found the Airplay two second delay very annoying and making it
01:19:00 ◼ ► This is, this is the Airplay delay is not great and it's made for playback of cash media or via sync.
01:19:08 ◼ ► And it it's yeah, this is the reason or one of the reasons why I'm still using, uh, an iPod Hi-Fi with an aux in plug from my headphone Jack on my.
01:19:22 ◼ ► What am I doing on my Mac pro is, uh, there's no delay and I can use it for everything.
01:19:30 ◼ ► And, and the, all of the Airplay stuff, you know, they, they try to work around it, but if you want instantaneous, it doesn't do it.
01:19:39 ◼ ► I just don't understand why the company that can give me the AirPods experience can't also give me the same experience with the HomePod mini.
01:19:52 ◼ ► Cause I've been using the HomePod mini when I'm at the studio, I have one of those at the studio and when I'm at the studio, I mean, using it as my speaker for my, uh, MacBook pro just like I'm watching videos or whatever.
01:20:06 ◼ ► But I don't understand why they can't just do whatever connection they're using via Bluetooth plus the secret source for the HomePod when it's connected to a Mac.
01:20:29 ◼ ► Like I know that they want to have it be AirPlay or whatever that, and that's cool, but like there's so much space inside of that little thing.
01:20:38 ◼ ► Like it's just a, it's just surprising to me that it really kind of makes it a crummy experience because like if you're watching video and you pause it, the audio keeps playing and then, you know, it's like, it's like a night.
01:20:56 ◼ ► So it almost feels like you shouldn't be able to use them for Mac, like set it as your Mac.
01:21:04 ◼ ► Or, or that they should have a low latency mode or they should have some sort of a mode where certain stuff comes through the Mac speaker if you want instead, because it's low latency.
01:21:17 ◼ ► Like there, there are other things they could do, but yeah, it's, it's definitely a hole and the Mac.
01:21:22 ◼ ► Mac support of, of AirPlay and HomePods has never been very good and it's, it's still not disappointing.
01:21:32 ◼ ► Sam asks, if a person is deciding between the 11 inch and 12.9 inch iPad Pro, what are the key factors and usage patterns you recommend considering?
01:21:42 ◼ ► I'm thinking about replacing my 10.5 inch iPad Pro at some point and that larger screen is compelling, but will I lose the holdability?
01:21:50 ◼ ► So I want to make my pitch here for why I think the 11 inch iPad Pro is the better iPad Pro for most people.
01:22:00 ◼ ► So for me, in my usage, I think that the larger iPad Pro, its main focus is multiple apps at once.
01:22:10 ◼ ► Like that's its largest benefit because if when you put apps side by side with the bigger iPad, you get like a full, two full app experiences.
01:22:18 ◼ ► So like if you want to be using multitasking and all that kind of stuff, and if you are working on an iPad Pro, you want to be using multitasking.
01:23:16 ◼ ► If like, you can still work from the smaller one and I have and do, uh, when I used to travel a lot, that's the one I would take.
01:23:27 ◼ ► All the keyboards are perfectly fine, but I was getting the smaller one in those instances for additional portability.
01:23:35 ◼ ► I almost kind of felt for me that the larger iPad was kind of a home device because of its size.
01:23:46 ◼ ► The smaller one is best if you want to also work on your iPad Pro, not replace your laptop with it.
01:24:02 ◼ ► Um, I think we've agreed on this podcast that the 11 inch iPad Pro is the better choice for most people.
01:24:10 ◼ ► Um, that said, I don't agree that the, that the larger one is, is about working with multiple apps at once.
01:24:20 ◼ ► When I do, it's nice to have that space, but, um, I do think typing on it, on the larger one, that software keyboard is way better.
01:24:40 ◼ ► So, um, Lauren has the smaller iPad Pro and I pick it up and I think that I've picked up a little toy iPad.
01:24:55 ◼ ► I think you can use a 12.9 on its own and then you get used to it and you use it and you know, you, you have had both models.
01:25:06 ◼ ► And so the differences are very clear to you, which gives you a unique opportunity to talk about their differences.
01:25:12 ◼ ► But I will say as somebody who committed to the 12.9 inch iPad Pro, um, I don't think about it being large.
01:25:27 ◼ ► You need to ideally hold it in your hands and make a judgment about it, but it's great.
01:25:34 ◼ ► Um, and one of the reasons I bought it is for things like watching video and reading comics and things like that, where you've got a bigger screen.
01:25:41 ◼ ► It's that much nicer to have the bigger screen, but I will admit that the smaller one is, uh, probably going to be more popular with more people.
01:25:53 ◼ ► And that's fine because you really need to see the benefit in having that larger screen in order to pay more money and carry around a larger object everywhere you go.
01:26:04 ◼ ► Um, and even I am aware of its size in the sense that when there are rumors about larger iPads, my immediate response is, oh no, please no.
01:26:13 ◼ ► Like I really liked it when the 12.9 inch iPad Pro got a little bit smaller by shrinking the bezels rather than making the screen bigger.
01:26:33 ◼ ► And Todd asks, if Apple brings back MagSafe, this is for the max, obviously, do you think it will be a cable with USB-C on the other end or will they go back to having an integrated power brick?
01:26:47 ◼ ► Well, the integrated power brick was terrible because it meant you couldn't use MagSafe with anything but Apple's brick, which then plugged into a wall.
01:26:56 ◼ ► And also meant that if you were, if you would have to take multiple power bricks, if you were going somewhere.
01:27:10 ◼ ► I think we're in, we live in a world where there are little blocks with USB-C connectors in them and that's what it's going to be.
01:27:17 ◼ ► Um, and in fact, I have a theory, which is that Apple may actually try to put data on it.
01:27:26 ◼ ► So that in addition to plugging it into a power brick for charging, you could plug it in to say a monitor or a hub and it would pass through data as well.
01:27:39 ◼ ► But even failing that, even if it's just power, I feel like they're going to put it on a USB-C because, uh, they want all their power bricks to use USB-C.
01:27:51 ◼ ► If you would like to send in a question to help us close the show and to get the answers that you're looking for, just send out a tweet with the hashtag ask upgrade or use question mark ask upgrade in the relay FM members discord, which you can get access to.
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01:28:28 ◼ ► We're going to be talking about some suspected working from home changes and how that's going to be in the post pandemic world.
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01:28:51 ◼ ► I would also like to thank uni, doordash and rogue amoeba for the support of this show.
01:28:56 ◼ ► And before we go, let me tell you about one other show here at relay FM clockwise, where hosts Dan Morin and Micah Sargent invite two guests every week from a diverse pool of tech professionals and cover four tech topics in 30 minutes.
01:29:15 ◼ ► And I have heard through the whispers in the wind that host emeritus Jason Snow is returning to clockwise this week.
01:29:33 ◼ ► If you'd like to find Jason online, you can find him at sixcolors.com the incomparable.com.
01:29:39 ◼ ► And Jason hosts many shows here at relay FM as I do to you go to relay.fm/shows to find those.