344: Let's Call It 'Motorcycle'


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:08   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 344, and today's show is brought to you by Squarespace,

00:00:15   LinkedIn Jobs, and Literati Kids.

00:00:18   My name is Myke Hurley, and I am joined by Jason Snell.

00:00:21   Hi, Jason Snell.

00:00:22   Hi, Myke Hurley.

00:00:23   I have a #SnellTalk question for you, and it comes from Landon.

00:00:26   Great.

00:00:27   So, Landon wants to know, to help us start this episode today, do you stream or download

00:00:32   your podcasts in your podcast app?

00:00:34   Well, I have bad news for the dynamically insertion of ad people, but I download all

00:00:41   my podcasts.

00:00:42   So, if I downloaded that podcast, I actually was just listening to some episodes of Dragon

00:00:49   Friends, which is this D&D podcast that I listen to sometimes, although only when I've

00:00:52   got extended driving or something to do, which I have not for a year.

00:00:57   I was listening to some of those episodes, and literally, I downloaded them.

00:01:01   I guess I re-downloaded them when I got a new phone.

00:01:03   I don't know if they migrated, but basically, they've been sitting there ready to go for

00:01:07   ages now.

00:01:08   So, yeah, I guess I'm old school in that way.

00:01:10   I download my podcasts mostly because there are occasionally moments, especially, I would

00:01:15   say back in the travel times, when you find yourself in a place with no internet, like

00:01:20   on an airplane, and you go, "Oh, no!"

00:01:24   And so, I have a couple of playlists and Apple Music that I download, and I just have my

00:01:29   podcasts auto-download to me.

00:01:30   I have unlimited data, so it doesn't matter.

00:01:35   And occasionally, I suppose it will stream on my Apple Watch, but even there, Overcast

00:01:39   tries to preload stuff onto the Apple Watch instead of having me stream it.

00:01:45   But again, I have unlimited data, so it wouldn't matter.

00:01:47   It's really just a hedge against losing your data connection because you're on an airplane

00:01:52   or something.

00:01:53   I am a stream person, purely because of the way that--

00:01:57   You're a streamer?

00:01:58   Yeah, only--

00:01:59   A streamer?

00:02:00   Like a leaker?

00:02:01   I am a streamer.

00:02:02   You're a streamer?

00:02:03   I am a streamer.

00:02:04   Only because of the way that Overcast handles streaming.

00:02:05   So, you might--people might not know this, but with Overcast, once you press play on

00:02:08   an episode to stream it, it downloads it.

00:02:10   So--

00:02:11   Yeah, in the background, right.

00:02:12   I'm not always streaming.

00:02:13   Like, as soon as you start listening, it just downloads.

00:02:15   And the reason I do it--I mean, that works really great for me.

00:02:18   I have some back catalogs of shows downloaded, and if I was going to get on a plane, I would

00:02:23   download things, and I would always do that because it's super quick.

00:02:27   I always have fast internet because I have good LTE coverage, and I have fast internet

00:02:33   at home and at the studio, so I never feel like I am ever waiting for any podcast that

00:02:38   I want to listen to.

00:02:40   And I just don't want the storage space taken up, so I just stream everything.

00:02:45   But it's not streaming in the sense of, like, it's not downloading.

00:02:48   They do download, but I don't download in advance or automatically, my catalog of shows.

00:02:54   Think back to when you were flying on airplanes.

00:02:57   Did you, for those purposes, did you preload some podcasts to listen to on the plane?

00:03:02   Oh, yeah.

00:03:03   Yeah, yeah.

00:03:04   I would just, like, open up Overcast at one point during the--

00:03:06   The flophouse, download, download, download time.

00:03:07   Yeah.

00:03:08   And I'd just be like, "Okay, here's the ten new episodes of, like, shows.

00:03:10   I'll just download all of those."

00:03:12   And then I have, you know, like, all of the Adventure Zone is downloaded just always.

00:03:17   You know, like, I have a few shows where I have, like, large catalogs that I just download

00:03:21   and leave them there.

00:03:23   And so that's just how I work.

00:03:25   And it's really, it's like a storage space thing, and just because I just don't really

00:03:28   feel like I need to have them all downloaded.

00:03:31   Talking about the ad insertion stuff, so I'm still listening to the West Wing Weekly.

00:03:35   I'm halfway through.

00:03:37   It's basically the only podcast I'm listening to right now.

00:03:40   I'm just keeping that West Wing dream alive after watching it for all for the first time.

00:03:44   And every single episode, they say, "Okay, now we'll take a break."

00:03:48   And they play the music.

00:03:49   And then the music starts again.

00:03:50   Like, and we're back.

00:03:51   Every episode?

00:03:52   And there's never an ad.

00:03:53   I don't know why.

00:03:54   I don't know if it's they don't have ads for me or they're just not putting ads in the

00:03:58   show anymore.

00:03:59   But I just find it frustrating.

00:04:01   I don't know why the little music part can't also be in the dynamically inserted portion.

00:04:08   So then I don't have to hear that, right?

00:04:12   I just find that to be just so annoying.

00:04:14   It's like, "Okay, we'll take a break.

00:04:16   And we're back."

00:04:17   It's like this is wasting my time.

00:04:18   I have this.

00:04:19   So I have a 60 Minutes update.

00:04:20   Oh, great.

00:04:21   Please do.

00:04:22   I can't tell you, because I didn't look, I was actually started watching some 60 Minutes

00:04:27   stuff when it was still airing on the West Coast, which means that I can't tell you if

00:04:30   we are now at 27, 27, 27, 27, 26, 26, 26, 26 or not, or whether they fixed it.

00:04:36   I didn't check.

00:04:37   However, good news, in the extras, they have started putting their clips again, which is

00:04:42   the idea that they don't just post, it's a show with segments.

00:04:46   And each segment is its own story.

00:04:47   It's like a mini news reporter documentary, usually three per.

00:04:52   So I, and that's not gonna be the episode title, people.

00:04:57   We did that already.

00:04:58   So first off, it's a laugh because you go in there to extras and it says 3,000 clips.

00:05:04   It's like, "Hmm, so I'm gonna have to scroll through 3,000."

00:05:07   Unfortunately, the latest ones are at the top.

00:05:09   So that's good.

00:05:10   I still think they've got some navigation issues to work out there, but they're at the

00:05:12   top.

00:05:13   And the reason I bring this up is those, again, those posts before the show airs on the West

00:05:19   Coast, which is great.

00:05:20   So if I'm sitting down at like 715 and they're not gonna put the show on Paramount Plus until

00:05:26   after eight, I can just pick and choose the ones that interest me and watch them right

00:05:29   then and then I'm done with 60 Minutes.

00:05:31   And it's fun.

00:05:32   It actually has made me more interested in 60 Minutes as a show than I've been in years

00:05:35   because I can pick and choose and watch it when I want.

00:05:38   It's great.

00:05:39   It's actually a great example of a show that was originated like 50 years ago being made

00:05:43   maybe a little bit more relevant and watchable because it's on the streaming.

00:05:48   Here's the thing though.

00:05:49   So Paramount Plus has like CBS All Access before it has an ad tier as well as an ad-free

00:05:56   tier.

00:05:58   So I pay for the ad-free tier because I'm not interested in the ads.

00:06:01   I don't know, wanna see them.

00:06:04   However, like your podcast, those segments, they're like, "Oh, but it's one segment.

00:06:10   Where are we gonna put the ad break?"

00:06:12   And so what they do is the correspondent introduces the piece as they do on the regular show.

00:06:18   And then before they play the piece, there's an ad break inserted.

00:06:25   And what they've decided to do is on the correspondent piece after they do the introduction, they

00:06:31   insert this standard thing that's on every single one that's at the wrong volume.

00:06:36   It's much louder than the volume of the show.

00:06:39   And it's their announcer with a little logo saying, "That story after this break."

00:06:46   At which point there's no break and the story plays because I'm paying to not see the ads.

00:06:53   So my question, again, this is low on my list of 60 Minutes complaints right now.

00:06:57   Paramount Plus complaints, very low on the list.

00:07:01   But you should probably put that in the ad role, not in the content so that the people

00:07:08   who are paying to not see the ads don't get the thing that says, "We'll be back right

00:07:13   after this," at four times the volume of the rest of the content.

00:07:19   Anyway, that's my...

00:07:22   I hear you.

00:07:23   That's the problem with the dynamic ad insertion.

00:07:25   Among the problems with dynamic ad insertion is it's not particularly artfully done in

00:07:29   terms of how it works with the content.

00:07:32   If you would like to send in a question to help us open an episode of Upgrade, just send

00:07:36   out a tweet with the hashtag SnellTalk or use question mark SnellTalk in the Relay FM

00:07:40   members discord.

00:07:43   We should do that more CBS style though.

00:07:44   It should be like, "For more, send to hashtag SnellTalk right after this."

00:07:52   I got lots of feedback and follow up about soundbars, which was great.

00:07:56   It was what I asked for.

00:07:57   You asked for it.

00:07:58   You asked for it.

00:07:59   You got it.

00:08:00   You got it.

00:08:01   I'm pleased to have gotten it.

00:08:02   The overwhelming feedback, if I'm going to replace my HomePods with another product,

00:08:06   is to go the Sonos route.

00:08:08   That seems to be...

00:08:10   I think for the feedback that I got, the people that seemed happiest with their products owned

00:08:15   Sonos products.

00:08:16   And Sonos have two soundbars.

00:08:18   They have the Arc and the Beam.

00:08:21   Now really, I need to make some decisions, which I haven't made yet, which is like, "What

00:08:26   features do I want?"

00:08:27   I've had some people suggest to me that Atmos, which is in the Beam, is not worth it for

00:08:32   the upgrade in price and size if I'm just going to be going with a smaller system.

00:08:37   Atmos has some very particular characteristics about it that it's unclear whether a soundbar

00:08:41   is really going to...

00:08:42   Right?

00:08:43   And I appreciate that.

00:08:44   It's nice that they have it, but it's not necessarily something that you're really going

00:08:48   to be able to take advantage of in that sort of setup.

00:08:53   Especially if I'm not going to go with the whole thing.

00:08:55   Like I don't want a subwoofer, for example, because I live in an apartment building.

00:08:58   And somebody said that to me.

00:09:00   You don't want this if you're in an apartment building.

00:09:02   Right.

00:09:03   Because that's just going to make your neighbors complain.

00:09:05   Yep.

00:09:06   And it's already a thing that I don't like.

00:09:08   Like our TV is on the wall, like it's next to the wall that's next to our next apartment,

00:09:14   right?

00:09:15   Like we have it on an adjoining wall.

00:09:16   Yeah.

00:09:17   Oh, man.

00:09:18   And now we have the audio coming from the TV and it comes from the back.

00:09:21   I'm much more aware of this.

00:09:24   Our home pods were on the opposite wall, which the adjoining wall is my office, so it doesn't

00:09:29   bother anyone.

00:09:30   Right.

00:09:31   So I definitely want something.

00:09:32   And I like the idea of a soundbar because then the audio is back towards us, right?

00:09:37   Like it's being fired towards us.

00:09:40   Right.

00:09:41   It's been a long time since I lived in an apartment building or anything like that.

00:09:45   That is right.

00:09:46   That's part of the issue is you have to worry about the people around you.

00:09:50   And I try to be a good neighbor.

00:09:51   If you lived in a bungalow, it would be different, right?

00:09:53   It would be completely different.

00:09:54   If you want to have any idea why Jason just made a reference to bungalows, go to getupgradeplus.com

00:10:00   where we play bungalow or not for a few minutes.

00:10:03   Getupgradeplus.com after the break.

00:10:06   After this break.

00:10:07   So one of the things that I need to work out is I need to, I haven't measured all these

00:10:11   products up yet because I think that both of these soundbars are going to be taller

00:10:17   than my TV stand, right?

00:10:19   Like the stand on the TV.

00:10:21   Yeah.

00:10:22   And that was another thing that you had in your list of, of, uh, complications was you

00:10:27   don't want it to be too big because you've got the size of your TV stand and the width

00:10:31   of your TV stand and all of that.

00:10:33   And I will, I will note that all the people who came back with Sonos stuff, you know,

00:10:38   well, not all, some of them noted the size, but it was definitely one of those things

00:10:42   where it's like, I don't think that these actually fit in what you really want because

00:10:47   they're a bit too big, but they may be what you're left with regardless.

00:10:52   Yeah.

00:10:53   Which I think is probably going to end up being the case.

00:10:54   And then it might just be, since like I saw some people doing this, you just put the TV

00:10:58   on top of something and like, you know, like, so you buy something to put the TV on top

00:11:02   of, which gives it enough clearance.

00:11:04   So all of this stuff is stuff that I'm going to look into.

00:11:07   It's not the top of my priority list.

00:11:10   Like I want to do something.

00:11:12   Cause also now I've realized that TV audio, it's like, it's just not as good as having

00:11:16   something that's dedicated, right?

00:11:18   Like having something that was splitting the sound out a bit with the two home pods is

00:11:22   fantastic compared to the audio coming from the TV.

00:11:25   So I'm going to wait a little bit longer because I'm not in a big rush here and I want to really

00:11:29   weigh out my options properly.

00:11:31   If I'm going to buy another product, I'm going to go one of the Sonos ones and I'll probably

00:11:34   get the beam, which is like half the price and half the size.

00:11:39   I did have somebody recommend to me that they were having the same issue and they did a

00:11:44   factory reset of their Apple TV as well as their home pods.

00:11:48   And I've never done that.

00:11:49   I've done just the home pods.

00:11:51   So sounds like a pain, but I may just try it out because I am also so people like Eric,

00:12:00   this is the second time Eric's given me this feedback.

00:12:02   He gave it to me earlier and the discord, he's given it to me again to put mountain

00:12:06   above the TV.

00:12:07   I have no interest above the TV.

00:12:09   I have no interest in mounting things on the wall.

00:12:13   I don't want to mount anything on the wall again.

00:12:16   I live in an apartment building, right?

00:12:18   Like we're not going to be here for like that much longer.

00:12:22   Ultimately in our lives.

00:12:23   Oh, see, I was thinking maybe somebody makes a very clever mount where you like attach

00:12:26   it to the visa screws or something on the back of a TV and it actually puts it, this

00:12:31   would be like something 12 South would make it puts a puts a shot above your TV on which

00:12:36   you can lay a sound bar.

00:12:37   Yeah, I don't like it.

00:12:38   I don't like the idea of the, of the sound bar being above just visually.

00:12:43   I think that something looks wrong about that.

00:12:45   Okay.

00:12:46   And that is what Ian is suggesting is, is it's a thing where you actually mounted on

00:12:49   the TV and then it, it attaches and it lives above your TV.

00:12:54   Maybe I'll, maybe I'll look into that then.

00:12:56   Yeah, it's, it's worth it.

00:12:57   It might be better than, than below, but yeah, you can see why some companies including Sonos

00:13:03   have made those sound bars that are like TV stands because they've realized that these

00:13:07   TV designs don't actually fit a sound bar beneath them or even in front of them.

00:13:12   My, my TV is the same way.

00:13:13   I've got a little bit of space under it, but none of these sound bars will fit.

00:13:18   So I'm going to try, I'm going to try re doing everything like resetting everything, right?

00:13:27   And then I'm going to see where I go from there.

00:13:30   All right.

00:13:32   Well, consider the shelf.

00:13:34   Who doesn't like a shelf?

00:13:35   Yeah.

00:13:36   It's also like the perfect objects.

00:13:37   I apologize to Eric.

00:13:38   I hadn't, I hadn't seen these particular products.

00:13:41   They're really quite aggressive looking, but I guess I could give them a go.

00:13:46   I wish, I wish this was easier, but you know, this is the, and soundbars are clever because

00:13:51   they are trying to be cleaner than having a whole thing with a bunch of speakers in

00:13:55   a bunch of places.

00:13:56   Yeah.

00:13:57   But, you know, my, um, my TV, I, so I have a 5.1, uh, set up, so I've got five speakers

00:14:07   and a subwoofer, um, and I've got two bookshelf speakers on the side for the front right and

00:14:12   left, but I will, the reason I mentioned this is that the, um, my, uh, the piece of furniture

00:14:17   that my TV sits on actually in the center, it's got this like secret compartment.

00:14:23   That's where the center channel lives.

00:14:25   But again, it's too small for a soundbar, which is the problem.

00:14:28   It's like a, it's like a little speaker fabric speaker thing and you lift it off and you

00:14:32   can put a speaker back there and, uh, and power strips and other wiring and stuff back

00:14:37   there and then you hide it and it looks perfectly clean, but the sound comes out of that and

00:14:41   it works great.

00:14:42   But again, it doesn't, it's like too small for a soundbar because the soundbars are trying

00:14:48   to spread sound around your whole house.

00:14:50   So they have to be big.

00:14:52   That's the trade off with having them replace all of those other speakers that are, that

00:14:56   otherwise would be in your room.

00:14:58   The other thing is I'm thinking I might just wait a little bit and just, I just want to

00:15:03   double check that Apple's not going to release a new Apple TV.

00:15:05   It's also a soundbar because if they do do that, then like that, that might just be what

00:15:11   I get, right?

00:15:12   Because if it's built in, it's probably going to be less of an issue.

00:15:15   So, but this is on my list of things to do.

00:15:18   I'll look into more at some point, but I just wanted to thank everyone for their follow

00:15:21   up and continued follow up.

00:15:22   Uh, going through today's episode, a couple of things about, uh, upstream, which is where

00:15:26   we'd take a look at some of the news in streaming media and technology companies.

00:15:31   Ted Lasso has won more awards, best comedy series and best new series at the screenwriters

00:15:36   Guild awards.

00:15:38   Uh, so congratulations for more Ted Lasso wins.

00:15:43   I think that's pretty cool that they not only won the best comedy, but they also won the,

00:15:47   uh, just the best new show.

00:15:49   It feels pretty good for them.

00:15:51   Straight up.

00:15:52   This is, this is a good one.

00:15:53   I mean, it's a, uh, it's a writer's show, but like, I feel like that the writers, the

00:15:59   writers have good taste.

00:16:00   This is a really good thing.

00:16:01   Yeah.

00:16:02   And Amazon is going to be buying some NFL rights in the U S big football news.

00:16:09   The NFL announced all of its, uh, rights renewals.

00:16:14   And it's huge.

00:16:16   Like it's huge amount of money, billions of dollars.

00:16:21   Um, the biggest story in terms of streaming is that Amazon, which was previously a partner

00:16:28   of the NFL and for those in the rest of the world, let me just say American football.

00:16:33   It is the number one sport in America and it is often basically the number one TV in

00:16:40   America is American football.

00:16:42   It's a huge driver of ratings.

00:16:44   So this is a big deal.

00:16:45   This is a lot of money, a lot of eyeballs.

00:16:49   This is big for the future of streaming.

00:16:51   And Amazon previously had a deal where they were going to stream games that were on Thursday

00:16:57   nights that were mostly on the NFL network.

00:16:59   And it was sort of a, they were rebroadcasting.

00:17:02   They would occasionally add their own announcers, but they were using an existing telecast being

00:17:06   produced by a different company.

00:17:08   And as a part of this deal, they are getting games that are exclusive Thursday nights football

00:17:13   will be on Amazon prime only prime video only produced by them with their announcers.

00:17:20   And if you don't have prime video, unless you're in the market, the TV market of the

00:17:26   two teams playing, you can't see it.

00:17:29   That's one of the deals that the NFL has always made is that if your team, your local team

00:17:32   is playing and it's on cable or streaming now, it will also be on a local TV broadcast

00:17:38   station because they don't want to make it so exclusive that the home team fans can't

00:17:42   see it.

00:17:43   But everybody else, this is a big deal because this is a streaming only game every week,

00:17:49   which is a huge deal.

00:17:53   But larger than that are the deals that came for the other networks.

00:17:57   So CBS, Fox, and ABC, ESPN.

00:18:01   They also made their new deals and they all include streaming.

00:18:05   So apparently CBS's games will be streamed on Paramount Plus.

00:18:10   Fox's games will be streamed on 2B, which is Fox's streaming platform of choice apparently.

00:18:18   And ABC and ESPN, it's a kind of a complicated thing.

00:18:20   ABC is going to broadcast some games currently.

00:18:23   So Monday Night Football, which was a big thing for many, many years, was on the broadcast

00:18:27   network ABC.

00:18:28   And eventually they moved it to ESPN because they're both owned by Disney.

00:18:32   ABC is going to pick up some games of its own.

00:18:34   ESPN also has games.

00:18:36   They're getting some playoff games.

00:18:37   They're getting a couple of Super Bowls that they haven't had in a while.

00:18:41   And they are getting some ESPN Plus exclusive games.

00:18:47   Plus they're going to have the contents of the ABC and ESPN games also will be on ESPN

00:18:52   Plus.

00:18:54   So it's a lot here.

00:18:56   And what's I'll throw in out there, something else that we've mentioned before, which is

00:18:59   that there's also the NFL Sunday Ticket package, which is about to expire, which is a satellite

00:19:03   only where you get all the football games.

00:19:06   And the question that I've got, the open question is, what's the relevance of that package?

00:19:12   Because if I read this right, CBS is going to offer every game that they're broadcasting

00:19:17   to Paramount Plus subscribers, which is that's half of NFL Sunday Ticket there.

00:19:22   And Fox is the other half.

00:19:24   And if they put all of their games on 2B, then I'm not sure there's a reason to have

00:19:29   NFL Sunday Ticket, but I'm unclear.

00:19:31   If I've got one game on in my local market and I'm a Paramount Plus subscriber, do I

00:19:37   only get that game or do I get all the games?

00:19:39   I'm kind of unclear on that.

00:19:41   But this is where this is going.

00:19:43   And it's an interesting thing to see billions and billions of dollars over 10 years by all

00:19:51   of these broadcasters to get not only broadcast television rights, but to also roll in their

00:19:57   streaming rights, which even two, three years ago was sort of a mystery.

00:20:02   And now it's a core part of all these deals.

00:20:04   So CBS doesn't just want to broadcast the NFL on their local CBS stations.

00:20:09   They want it as part of the value of Paramount Plus.

00:20:13   And I think what this means is the argument is that if you're a fan in a particular market

00:20:19   that's served by either Fox or CBS primarily, you're going to be extra motivated to sign

00:20:23   up for 2B or Paramount Plus just to watch your football games if you're a cord cutter.

00:20:28   If I understood it right, the Amazon games, it's 15 games a season, but they're only shown

00:20:33   on Prime.

00:20:34   Yes, only on Prime.

00:20:36   It used to be rebroadcast on like NFL Network and they would just sort of pick up the feed,

00:20:40   which actually means they have to hire announcers and a production crew and stuff.

00:20:43   They were using, I think, Fox and then before that it was CBS.

00:20:46   So that is going away and they basically have their own little slice of football television

00:20:52   on Thursday nights.

00:20:53   So would you, if your team was one of the teams who had a game on Amazon, you'd also

00:20:58   have to get the Amazon one to get the game?

00:21:00   Unless you're in the local market, because if it's the 49ers and the Arizona Cardinals

00:21:07   playing, it would be on a broadcast station in San Francisco and Phoenix.

00:21:10   But if it was on a broadcast station, would it also be on the stream?

00:21:14   No.

00:21:15   No.

00:21:16   Okay.

00:21:17   No.

00:21:18   So if it's, yeah, if it's on CBS's channel in San Francisco, it's not on Paramount Plus.

00:21:22   It's a local broadcast deal that they make.

00:21:24   And that's just a, honestly, I think it's kind of great.

00:21:26   That's a fan friendly deal where they basically want fans in the local market to be able to

00:21:31   watch the local teams games without having to subscribe to some cable or internet package.

00:21:38   But anyway, streaming like this is this is billions of dollars.

00:21:42   Oh my gosh.

00:21:43   Like as a consumer though, this is just so it's just making things more and more and

00:21:47   more difficult, right?

00:21:48   Like, oh, I want to watch these games, these like 20 games.

00:21:53   So I need to have this service and this service and this one as well.

00:21:57   Okay, great.

00:21:58   Well, that would be the argument, I guess, for NFL Sunday Ticket as a product going forward,

00:22:03   which is rumored to be an Amazon that Amazon is very interested in that and turning that

00:22:07   into a streaming thing instead of a satellite thing.

00:22:11   Because DirecTV used it to sell to sign up people for their satellite TV services.

00:22:15   They were the only ones that had it.

00:22:17   And so lots of people signed up for DirecTV literally.

00:22:20   And that's going to continue even though they're doing it runs out in a year, right?

00:22:25   Or two years.

00:22:26   So they're there.

00:22:27   That negotiation is going to happen.

00:22:29   So what may happen is that Amazon will buy it.

00:22:32   And the idea there is if what if you want to pay once to see every game, you pay Amazon,

00:22:39   or you sign up for Amazon Prime, and you can see every game.

00:22:43   I'm unclear on exactly if that's going to happen and how that's going to work.

00:22:46   Is it every game for a specific team?

00:22:48   No, it's every game.

00:22:49   My gosh, this is confusing, Jason.

00:22:51   Yeah, it is.

00:22:52   It is.

00:22:53   I hope we get some clarity in the next few weeks about it.

00:22:56   But I think it was bound to be confusing because it's the streaming world and the broadcast

00:23:00   world all kind of coming together.

00:23:01   But I think the important point here is you're seeing broadcast companies spend billions

00:23:08   of dollars, but they're not doing it to just put it on broadcast, right?

00:23:15   They're also putting it on their streaming service and using it to build their streaming

00:23:20   service.

00:23:21   And that's important because up to now, most of the money in sports broadcasting has been

00:23:26   about tying people to the cable bundle, right?

00:23:30   That's where the value has been is live sports.

00:23:33   You got to have cable.

00:23:34   If you're a cord cutter, you're going to be sad.

00:23:35   You're going to have to spend money to get it over the top service because live sports

00:23:39   is all about having the cable bundle.

00:23:43   And these deals aren't doing that.

00:23:46   And that I think is really interesting.

00:23:48   And it shows you just how the pendulum has swung to the other side.

00:23:52   And now everybody is in a rush to build value in streaming, which I would argue is going

00:23:58   to accelerate cord cutting because having the NFL be available without having cable

00:24:06   is going to be a big one.

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00:26:04   Okay so if you remember last week we spoke about the iMac Pro being like while supplies

00:26:11   last kind of thing.

00:26:13   It looked like it was on its way out the door.

00:26:14   Yeah, supplies didn't last did they?

00:26:16   They did not last.

00:26:17   The iMac Pro has been removed completely from Apple's website.

00:26:21   So not only is it no longer for sale, the old URL just takes you to the Mac page.

00:26:27   Like it doesn't.

00:26:28   It's gone.

00:26:29   It's gone.

00:26:30   It's completely gone.

00:26:31   So those supplies did not last, did they?

00:26:33   They did not last.

00:26:34   But now the 512GB and 1TB SSD versions of the small iMac, the 21.5 inch, have also been

00:26:42   removed from sale.

00:26:43   So just the 256GB SSD and 1TB Fusion Drive options, i.e. the two worst options are the

00:26:52   only ones that are still available.

00:26:54   See but the small 256GB SSD which is unbelievably small for a computer, right?

00:27:02   Or the Fusion Drive which is less than good because you still got a spinning hard drive

00:27:07   going on in there.

00:27:08   So look we're going to talk a little bit later on in this episode about the possibility of

00:27:13   an Apple event in April.

00:27:15   But I feel like this has got to be tied into something somewhere.

00:27:20   Why are these iMacs?

00:27:21   It sure feels like it.

00:27:22   It's like Tim Cook clicked his fingers and half of the iMacs have disappeared.

00:27:26   What is going on?

00:27:27   My guess is that they were originally planning to roll out new computers.

00:27:31   This is just a guess, best guess, in March.

00:27:34   And you got to think like there's a whole chain of events that has to happen, right?

00:27:38   You got to get your...

00:27:39   You have to start ramping things down.

00:27:40   Yeah, right.

00:27:41   Because you want to stop making, and Tim Cook is the best person to exemplify this philosophy,

00:27:47   right?

00:27:48   You never want to have more Macs than you can sell.

00:27:52   So as you're preparing to open up the new thing, right?

00:27:58   You shut down the old thing.

00:28:00   And that's all about timing, right?

00:28:02   It could be that they're running out of parts.

00:28:04   I think that was the feeling about the iMac Pro was maybe that they were running out of

00:28:08   Xeons or maybe they had bought a certain number of Xeons and they're like, "Well, we've used

00:28:12   them all.

00:28:13   That's it," right?

00:28:14   So there's a lot of manufacturing complexity there.

00:28:17   But I suspect that what happened here is they're like, "We're going to ramp down the iMacs.

00:28:21   We're going to stop building them."

00:28:23   And it isn't necessarily the case that they're going to produce the new thing on the same

00:28:26   production line, but it might very well be, right?

00:28:29   So you shut down, you've made enough Macs to sell until the point where you've got the

00:28:35   new thing coming in, but no further because you don't want thousands of Macs that are

00:28:41   outmoded that you have to sell at a loss or at a big discount.

00:28:46   You want to hit it perfect.

00:28:48   You want the last iMac you sell to be the last one in inventory, and then you move on.

00:28:53   And then what happens is maybe there's a hiccup.

00:28:55   Maybe there's a production line hiccup or there's a limit of supply or something else

00:29:00   is going on.

00:29:01   Who knows what it could be?

00:29:02   And you end up not being ready to ship the new thing.

00:29:07   Or maybe demand is more than you thought it would be.

00:29:09   I don't know.

00:29:10   That's also a possibility.

00:29:11   So that's my best guess about what's going on here is that Apple possibly intended to

00:29:15   actually do an event in March and launch this thing, launch new iMacs, and perfectly timed

00:29:21   it and they don't have the replacement yet.

00:29:25   But it does feel that way, right?

00:29:26   It could be a little hiccup, but given that this product is very strongly rumored to be

00:29:32   going away, it seems like that's the most likely scenario is that this is, you know,

00:29:38   they stopped producing it and now they've run out.

00:29:40   I think this is like the first real, like true sign of some kind of COVID related manufacturing

00:29:49   issue from Apple.

00:29:50   It's hard to tell.

00:29:51   I mean, they've had such a great success producing things.

00:29:54   I mean, it's very hard to tell what the hiccup is here, but that would be my guess is that

00:29:58   there's just been a hiccup, right?

00:29:59   That they have had something happen that was unanticipated.

00:30:03   It would explain the rumors about March events, right?

00:30:07   It would explain it if they were originally intended.

00:30:10   Because they knew that the supply chains were starting to ramp down at that time.

00:30:15   It was like, and I know the iPhones were quote unquote late, but you know, that's one of

00:30:19   those things that they can be like, well, we always intended to, like if all of a sudden

00:30:23   iPhones stopped being available for a month, right?

00:30:25   We'd be like, aha, that was when it was supposed to go on sale.

00:30:28   But this is just isn't a thing that they do, right?

00:30:30   Like Apple are more likely to keep old products around than they are to start just like having

00:30:36   them all slowly start to disappear.

00:30:39   Like it's kind of funny because it completely telegraphs a next move from them, whether

00:30:45   it happens in a couple of weeks or a couple of months.

00:30:48   But it is, you can't deny now that they have new iMacs on the way because they're not selling

00:30:53   half of them.

00:30:54   Every now and then it'll happen though, where a product will go out of stock and people

00:30:58   are like, oh man, products out of stock, there's going to be a new one.

00:31:01   And then the product just goes back in stock.

00:31:03   You're like, oh, but I agree this feels unlikely.

00:31:06   At least with the iMac Pro, they did say it was gone, right?

00:31:09   Like they made that statement.

00:31:11   And so like now you put all this stuff together and it's like, well, for whatever reason,

00:31:15   they stopped doing it.

00:31:16   But they're not replacing the iMac Pro, right?

00:31:19   Like they're not actually replacing it.

00:31:21   And in fact, if the rumors are true, they're really not replacing the 27-inch iMac right

00:31:24   away either.

00:31:25   They're replacing the 21-inch iMac, which is why the 21, 21 and a half being removed

00:31:31   from sale makes you think even more that that's the signal here is that there's a new small

00:31:37   iMac and they're going to start there, right?

00:31:39   This is the story.

00:31:40   New small iMac.

00:31:41   They can use the M1 probably for that, but it'll be a redesign and it'll get that out

00:31:45   now and it'll be adorable.

00:31:47   And it'll probably be larger than 21 and a half, right?

00:31:49   It'll probably be a larger screen.

00:31:51   That's the rumor.

00:31:52   And then the big one is going to hang out for a little while because they're going to

00:31:58   want to put a more high-end processor in it.

00:32:01   And that'll come later this year.

00:32:04   That's the story that we're all kind of anticipating.

00:32:06   And this fits perfectly with it.

00:32:09   So the HomePod mini, there's an interesting story that came out today.

00:32:13   So this is Mark Germin reporting for Bloomberg that Apple seems to have included a humidity

00:32:19   and temperature sensor from Texas Instruments in the HomePod mini.

00:32:23   Germin was reporting that Apple had reportedly discussed using this feature to allow the

00:32:29   HomePod mini to control smart thermostat products and fans and stuff like that.

00:32:33   So it could be part of your home environment.

00:32:36   After learning about this, I think this is actually pretty cool reporting.

00:32:39   After learning about the potential for this thing to exist Bloomberg contacted iFixit to

00:32:45   take apart a HomePod mini and find it.

00:32:48   And this is a quote.

00:32:50   So they found it.

00:32:51   They found this little chip from Texas Instruments.

00:32:53   And the quote is, "The part is situated relatively far from the device's main internal components,

00:32:59   meaning it is designed to measure the external environment rather than the temperature of

00:33:03   the speaker's other electronics."

00:33:05   Because an easy thing to suggest would be like, "Oh, hey, they put it in there in case

00:33:09   you spill water on your HomePod mini or whatever."

00:33:13   That you wouldn't, apparently you wouldn't put this sensor in the place that it is if

00:33:19   you were monitoring things that are internal rather than external.

00:33:23   And I just found this interesting.

00:33:24   There could be a million things here, right?

00:33:25   It could be they wanted to do it and it didn't work out or they put it in there and they're

00:33:30   waiting for a software update.

00:33:32   Or we'll just never know.

00:33:35   But it's just, I found this to be a really fascinating story and I kind of like the reporting

00:33:40   on it.

00:33:41   And the thread radio in there makes me think that there's definitely something going on,

00:33:44   right, where Apple is considering what their home strategy is.

00:33:49   And what's the hard part here is to decide whether this means that they considered it

00:33:54   and thought better of it or whether they actually have a strategy and this is something that's

00:34:00   gonna be turned on.

00:34:01   This looks to me like a feature that you would use in order to have a thermostat be able to

00:34:09   use it as a sensor in a different room, right?

00:34:12   Like a home kit savvy smart thermostat, you'd be able to say, you know, adjust the heat

00:34:17   based on this sensor.

00:34:18   Like I was using, when I was testing ecobee thermostats a few years ago, they had like

00:34:24   a little tag that you could put in another room, a little battery operated tag, and then

00:34:28   you could target that temperature.

00:34:30   And it's a good, it's like a good thing to do because sometimes you don't, the place

00:34:34   where your thermostat is isn't the place that you wanna measure in terms of the temperature

00:34:39   of your house.

00:34:40   And so this is an interesting idea, right?

00:34:42   Like that it just adds that little bit.

00:34:45   Plus you could add other home automations to it.

00:34:47   The idea that you could, I actually had this in my bedroom for the summertime where when

00:34:52   the temperature in the bedroom goes up above a certain point, the fan comes on.

00:34:56   And that's just a very simple thing because I have a temperature sensor in there and I

00:35:00   have a home kit fan in there that I can do that.

00:35:03   So which is hard to do right now with the home app, you have to use, it's a whole story,

00:35:07   but I could see that this is all part of a larger thing that Apple is trying to work

00:35:12   on here.

00:35:13   The question is, is it a part of the thing they were trying and then they like stepped

00:35:15   away from it or is it there, but because it doesn't really have any applicability right

00:35:19   there and they wanna roll it out with some larger strategy, they just got it turned off

00:35:23   for now.

00:35:24   And I don't know the answer to that, but I'm intrigued just because it shows Apple making

00:35:29   another attempt.

00:35:30   The Thread Radio alone intrigues me in terms of them maybe having a bigger plan for the

00:35:36   home with the HomePod mini as the first wave of new products that actually have a better

00:35:41   kind of integration with the home.

00:35:43   But this might be that or this might be a sign that they actually thought of it and

00:35:47   then thought better of it.

00:35:49   - You bought a HomePod mini, didn't you?

00:35:53   - I did.

00:35:54   I bought it.

00:35:55   I got it.

00:35:57   It's really tiny.

00:36:00   Like I thought it was tiny and it's smaller than that.

00:36:07   I got it.

00:36:08   I had a Sonos Play One in our bathroom if you wanna listen to music or whatever, play

00:36:15   podcasts or whatever.

00:36:16   And I thought, well, I could replace that with a HomePod mini and it would get me a

00:36:19   HomePod mini that I could try.

00:36:22   And yeah, it doesn't sound spectacular, but it sounds pretty good.

00:36:26   And it's adorable and tiny and wasn't that expensive.

00:36:31   And it feels like a much more reasonable product than the full-size HomePod did.

00:36:40   - I have been to my studio a couple of times over the last few weeks and I had a HomePod

00:36:46   mini, like I bought one and I put it there and I just never used it.

00:36:50   Because we were just like, oh, here you go HomePod, see you in three months.

00:36:54   And I realized and I've been using it as the speaker for my Mac and it works great for

00:37:00   that because it's just on the desk underneath the monitor that I have.

00:37:04   And it's just a much nicer speaker for listening to music or watching videos or whatever on

00:37:11   my Mac.

00:37:12   It's just like this nice little thing for it.

00:37:13   I got it to be a HomeKit hub basically.

00:37:18   To control lights and stuff at the studio.

00:37:21   But then realized, oh, that's actually really good for that.

00:37:24   The only thing that annoys me is whenever I'm using my phone at my desk, it keeps alerting

00:37:30   me to send the audio to my HomePod when there's no audio.

00:37:33   It's like, hey, hold it here, hold it here.

00:37:35   I assume that I haven't looked into it.

00:37:38   But you know what I'm talking about, right?

00:37:40   When it has the U1 functionality and you can hold it close to it and it will send the audio.

00:37:44   - Yeah, I haven't tried that yet, but yeah.

00:37:46   - It just keeps telling me to do it.

00:37:48   Like it keeps bugging me, right?

00:37:51   And so I assume there's a way to turn this off, but I haven't looked yet.

00:37:54   If there isn't, it's going to be really annoying for me.

00:37:58   Because if I'm just sitting at my desk and using my phone, it's constantly giving that

00:38:02   little notification from the top.

00:38:04   You know like how the HomePod one, it's like that little pill notification.

00:38:09   Where it's, sorry, like the AirPods one when you're using the AirPods device switching.

00:38:14   And it gives you that little notification like, hey, your AirPods are connected or you

00:38:17   can swap them back to the device it was previously on.

00:38:20   It's one of those for the HomePod mini and it's just, it's giving you a tap tick to try

00:38:25   and get you, like tap tick to try and get you to move it.

00:38:28   Like hey, bring it closer and send the audio.

00:38:30   So I need to look into that because it's a little bit frustrating.

00:38:33   But great, great little speaker for a clamshell laptop, right?

00:38:37   Because that's how I use my laptop.

00:38:39   I just plug it into a monitor and it's in clamshell.

00:38:42   So the speakers are okay, but it's even better.

00:38:43   You've got this little speaker ball there and it does a much better job.

00:38:49   Definitely feels like the product they always should have made.

00:38:51   Yeah, it does, doesn't it?

00:38:52   Yeah.

00:38:53   It's a much smarter idea.

00:38:55   Does most of the things that's needed.

00:38:57   It's much more cheaper.

00:38:58   It's just really is the, we can see now main HomePod, bad idea.

00:39:04   I guess in 10 home, 10 audio devices for 30, 10.

00:39:10   Sure.

00:39:11   It can be in that list as a weird one.

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00:41:08   So Mark Gorman also published a report for Bloomberg talking about iPad Pro refresh.

00:41:15   So Apple is planning on announcing some quote new iPads as early as April.

00:41:20   I love that so much.

00:41:21   It always makes me laugh.

00:41:23   The iPad Pro refresh is the biggest one.

00:41:25   So that he also references the regular iPad and the iPad mini, but they seem to be later

00:41:29   in the year.

00:41:30   Um, but the iPad Pro is the one that's most on the horizon.

00:41:33   So a better processor on par with the M1.

00:41:36   I guess we know what that means, right?

00:41:39   Yeah.

00:41:40   It's A14X.

00:41:41   But like it's basically the same chip effectively, which is essentially the same.

00:41:45   Yeah.

00:41:46   Which is, you know, I mean, we had assumed this, it's going to be, I can't wait to see

00:41:50   benchmarks and stuff like that and how these things compare.

00:41:53   Like, I wonder if there's any comparable benchmarks.

00:41:58   I guess maybe Geekbench could be done on an iPad and a Mac and just if there's any differences,

00:42:04   I would just really keen to see if they could perform differently in any way.

00:42:09   I don't know, but that's going to be really fascinating to see how they stack up.

00:42:14   Maybe if there's like some real world things that can be done as well.

00:42:17   Like I don't know.

00:42:18   Um, better cameras, uh, working from home machines, right?

00:42:23   Like that's kind of what this Bloomberg article is pitched around is.

00:42:26   But I mean, it's true though.

00:42:27   The iPad has been pretty successful for Apple, um, during the working from home period.

00:42:33   And I know that, you know, this is going to be a thing that people want from every computer

00:42:37   is better cameras for Zoom calls and the like now, right?

00:42:41   It's like become table stakes, I think for Apple this year is they need to put better

00:42:45   cameras in their devices because you know, like these, the M1 laptops, I think were the

00:42:50   last ones that they could have gotten away with without not upgrading it because also

00:42:54   it became like a story, right?

00:42:57   That the cameras sucked.

00:42:59   And I don't think it's a thing that they're going to be able to keep doing because it's

00:43:03   something that's become more important to people than ever before.

00:43:06   That the front facing cameras are good, right?

00:43:10   Like really good.

00:43:11   So it's, I mean, I know I want them to be oriented a little bit differently, but we'll

00:43:16   see about that.

00:43:17   Uh, the look will be similar to current models.

00:43:20   What do you think about this?

00:43:21   I mean, personally I'm fine with it.

00:43:22   I don't need to design change.

00:43:23   The current look is great.

00:43:25   Yeah.

00:43:26   We got, we got this look.

00:43:27   It's great.

00:43:28   There's no need to change it.

00:43:29   Like I couldn't even tell you what I would want, right?

00:43:31   It's like, it's like the laptops really.

00:43:34   Like I don't particularly want a lot of changes to the laptop line, just a little bit more

00:43:39   modern looking, but it's not like I need a new industrial design.

00:43:44   No, these led the way in, in sort of defining Apple's next wave of designs.

00:43:49   It's a great design and I have no complaints at all.

00:43:52   It's like similarly with the iPhone.

00:43:54   It's like, I don't want any, you know, like the physical industrial design, keep it as

00:43:58   it is.

00:43:59   I don't want anything that I want is to just make the notch smaller or whatever.

00:44:03   Like, but, uh, you know, the look of the thing, I don't, I don't need any changes on that.

00:44:08   Like even with the iPad, I don't think I want the bezels to get any smaller.

00:44:13   I think they're just about right for it to be comfortable to hold.

00:44:17   Um, so, but the, one of the big changes seems to be coming most likely to just the 12.9

00:44:25   inch iPad pro, which is the mini led screen, you know, this is better contrast, better

00:44:31   brightness, that kind of stuff.

00:44:34   I think the jury's out right.

00:44:36   And what that's actually gonna be like from a usability perspective, like how good is

00:44:43   that actually going to be?

00:44:44   We don't know yet.

00:44:45   Right.

00:44:46   Uh, and so it's going to be, it seems, it seems very unlikely that the 11 inch is going

00:44:50   to get it, but the proof will be in the pudding for just how much of a benefit it really is.

00:44:55   Right.

00:44:56   You know, that Apple will make a big deal and say, Oh, it's the first blah, blah, blah

00:44:59   screen with HDR and the dynamic range and blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:45:03   Right.

00:45:04   Like they're gonna, they'll, they'll throw out their buzzwords and their numbers and all

00:45:07   of that.

00:45:08   And then as you put it, uh, let's see it, right.

00:45:11   Let's see how it really is appreciably better than what was there before, because Apple

00:45:16   may make a big deal out of something that in the real world is not that big a deal or

00:45:21   maybe it is.

00:45:22   I don't know.

00:45:23   It, again, it's new technology and so why would you not use that to promote your product?

00:45:28   Assuming that this is a, is what we think it is.

00:45:31   So like the mini LED screen has been the thing that people have been talking about for these

00:45:36   iPad pros is like, this is the big feature, but it only coming to the big one.

00:45:41   I don't think this is it.

00:45:42   Right.

00:45:43   So I'll read you a quote.

00:45:44   I think this is the big feature.

00:45:45   I think we're probably in agreement on this.

00:45:47   So this is a quote from Mark Girma's article.

00:45:49   In testing the new iPad pros have used a Thunderbolt connector, the same port on the latest Macs

00:45:54   of custom Apple processors.

00:45:56   The port doesn't require new charges, but it would enable connectivity of additional

00:46:00   external monitors, hard drives, and other peripherals.

00:46:03   It's also faster at syncing data than the USB-C technology used in the current models.

00:46:08   Now I saw John Gruber suggest that this is probably a USB four connector, which is the

00:46:14   same connectors that are on the M1 max.

00:46:16   Exactly.

00:46:17   That is incorrect in what Marcus said, they're not Thunderbolt connectors.

00:46:20   The USB four, which includes everything that Thunderbolt has and they're USB-C shaped,

00:46:26   but USB four includes all of that.

00:46:29   It's the USB-C shape, but it's also USB four.

00:46:32   Sorry.

00:46:33   Yes.

00:46:34   What is it?

00:46:35   USB four is Thunderbolt four or something like they're basically the same there.

00:46:37   It's the merging of them where they're, they're all the same.

00:46:40   Yeah.

00:46:41   The USB four has everything that Thunderbolt three had just included in the spec.

00:46:48   So you get everything for free.

00:46:51   That's probably what's on these chips because also if we believe that the chip that's going

00:46:57   into these machines is at an underlying level, the same chip as the M1 by and large, the

00:47:04   M1 supports USB four.

00:47:08   So it just makes sense that so would the iPad.

00:47:12   Now if they do this, are they actually going to take advantage of what this technology

00:47:19   could provide?

00:47:20   Well, that's, that's the real question.

00:47:24   I think what, what I see here, cause you know, again, uh, unconnected last week, you were

00:47:31   talking to Federico about that, uh, iPad doc that he reviewed.

00:47:35   And you know, there is a long tradition in covering the iPads and iPad pros to talk about

00:47:42   docs and connectivity.

00:47:44   And the truth is that there are very few cases where you actually need that level of connectivity,

00:47:49   right?

00:47:50   It's a tiny, tiny edge case where it's like, Oh, finally I can have an ethernet Jack and

00:47:54   three things plugged in via USB-C to my iPad, which probably not, probably you're not doing

00:48:00   that.

00:48:01   That seems like not a real big, important use case to have a bunch of devices connected

00:48:05   directly.

00:48:06   Um, and so I was thinking about like what scenarios benefit from having this level of

00:48:12   connectivity and the obvious one is external monitor support, right?

00:48:16   The, the obvious one.

00:48:18   And I know that, you know, they could build that into current models perhaps, but the

00:48:22   idea that they would come out with a new model that would have a new kind of connectivity

00:48:27   and that they would then use it as a driver to roll out a new piece of a new software

00:48:32   update that properly drives external displays via something other than mirroring and supports

00:48:39   a bunch of different displays because now that they introduced the cursor stuff last

00:48:44   year, the little pointer support, um, we are in a place where you could run an iPad and

00:48:49   iPad iOS on a large display with a keyboard and a pointing device and not need the iPad

00:48:55   screen at all.

00:48:57   Um, so that's the scenario that makes the most sense to me.

00:49:01   And then also like if you dock and have a, and have a screen, then you actually do have

00:49:06   a scenario where it makes more sense that you would need some other ports and some other

00:49:10   high speed, uh, peripherals.

00:49:12   But I don't know it on one level.

00:49:15   It's like, yeah, put thunderbolt on there on another level.

00:49:17   It's like, well, yeah, but what are you going to use it for?

00:49:19   Because it's not like iPads do are attached to, you know, raids or other like super high.

00:49:24   Uh, although, you know, I suppose if it's a, an M one, you could make some cases for

00:49:28   like transferring video directly onto it and things like that.

00:49:32   There are things that you could make the case for, but my mind immediately goes to displays.

00:49:38   Also I wanted to mention the Mark Gurman use of in testing because that's an interesting

00:49:42   tell that all he knows from his sources that, well, when there, when his source saw it last,

00:49:48   it was a thunderbolt port, but they don't actually know with any authority if that is

00:49:51   what will ship with the final.

00:49:52   I like that kind of a little insight into where his source is in terms of their level

00:49:58   of knowledge.

00:49:59   But anyway, I'm going to use this to wish cast that we're going to get, uh, with this

00:50:03   release a new feature set on the software side, like we did last year tied to the hardware

00:50:08   and that it may be display related.

00:50:10   I want to believe you.

00:50:13   My concern is that they take the tack that they did when they first put USB-C on the

00:50:23   iPad pro, which is that it couldn't do a lot of the things that USB would do until the

00:50:30   WWDC when they added those features for the next version of the reason I feel more positive

00:50:35   about it is because of what happened last year.

00:50:37   Last year, I had a conversation last week with somebody about this, um, where they were

00:50:41   saying, um, the problem is not the hardware, it's the software.

00:50:45   So why are you wishing for software things with hardware update?

00:50:47   And the answer is look at last year, last year they did, they managed to nail it, which

00:50:52   is they shipped the magic keyboard and an OS update that enabled the features that were

00:50:58   on the magic keyboard, even though that OS update was substantive so much so that we

00:51:04   all just assumed we would have to wait until the fall to get it.

00:51:07   But Apple prioritized it because it was tied to the new hardware they were doing.

00:51:11   And they did a mid year release with a major new iPad OS feature.

00:51:15   And if, if they do it again, that would be in line with it.

00:51:20   Right?

00:51:21   Like, Oh, and this new OS update has support for multiple displays and with it mirroring

00:51:26   off and here's how you manage it.

00:51:27   And here's how you put those apps on those displays and what better way to do that with

00:51:31   the, than with the new iPad pro, which has support for these monitors.

00:51:36   I can see it, right.

00:51:37   But you're right.

00:51:38   Like if, if last year hadn't happened, I'd be like, Oh, well, they'll just, they'll just

00:51:41   put it in there and then we'll have to wait and hope that they add that feature in the

00:51:44   fall.

00:51:45   But they're clearly holding the next version of iOS and iPad OS.

00:51:51   It's like, you know, this holding pattern, it's got all these features, right?

00:51:54   Like the mask thing that might be easy to think that it's just in iOS now, but it's

00:51:58   not right.

00:51:59   Like this it's still in the, what, what does it 13.5 wait, which iOS are we on?

00:52:05   14?

00:52:06   Yeah.

00:52:07   iOS 100.5, whatever the current 0.5 is.

00:52:10   It's 14.5 I think is the one that they're testing right now.

00:52:14   And so that I, I think it's safe to assume that that version of iOS and iPad iOS will

00:52:21   be released to support whatever new products get unveiled if there's going to be an event

00:52:27   soon.

00:52:28   And so they just may be some stuff that's not in that version yet, which supports external

00:52:34   displays and iPad iOS with, with more features available to them.

00:52:39   A couple of weeks ago on connected, we spoke a little bit about what hardware advancements

00:52:44   we'd want to see for a new iPad hardware.

00:52:48   And I wanted to ask you in an ideal scenario, is there anything else you would want to see

00:52:56   from Apple from a hardware perspective for the iPad Pro line?

00:53:01   This gets back to what I was just saying, right?

00:53:03   Which is the challenge with this, it actually reminds me of when we had that ask upgrade

00:53:06   question maybe last week about the Kindle.

00:53:08   What do I want from a new Kindle?

00:53:09   No new Kindles yet, by the way, still waiting on that.

00:53:12   And my answer was, I don't know, I'm pretty happy with it.

00:53:16   The software is the problem.

00:53:18   And that's how I feel about the iPad.

00:53:20   And this isn't news.

00:53:21   We've been saying this for a while now that even as Apple has done some great things in

00:53:25   terms of making the software better, the software is the limitation.

00:53:29   The software is the limitation that the, the, the devices, I almost a computer, but what's

00:53:33   a computer.

00:53:34   The devices have been great for a few years and we're going to get an M1 class iPad, right?

00:53:40   So my answer is, well, what can, what else can I do with it?

00:53:45   Can I dock it to an external display?

00:53:48   Are there going to be Apple Pro apps on it eventually?

00:53:52   Right.

00:53:53   Which still hasn't happened.

00:53:54   iPad Pro has existed for like five years now and Apple's Pro apps don't run on it.

00:54:00   The, you know, I had one wacky idea, which was sidecar in reverse.

00:54:08   Like, could I just throw my iPad up onto my iMac display?

00:54:14   I guess that would be cool.

00:54:15   Motorcycle, right?

00:54:16   Yeah, let's call it motorcycle.

00:54:18   Let's call it motorcycle, right?

00:54:20   Because then I could use my 27 inch display, but put iPad OS on it.

00:54:25   That would, I just like, that gives me a kick to think of the Mac as the sidekick.

00:54:30   To the iPad instead of the other way around.

00:54:33   Um, uh, you know, I think I don't want a larger one.

00:54:37   I think the size of the 12.9 and the fact that they made it smaller while keeping the

00:54:41   screen size the same is it's right on the edge of being too big.

00:54:45   Like I was tempted last time with going down to the smaller iPad and I decided, no, I actually

00:54:50   really like the larger iPad, but if I I'm not interested in a 15 inch iPad Pro, right.

00:54:56   But that doesn't mean that artists aren't and that other video editors aren't and the

00:54:59   people who want a real setup that's computer-like but an iPad wouldn't like it.

00:55:04   And I'd love to see Apple experiment there, but not at the cost of the current 12.9 because

00:55:11   I feel like that is the right size.

00:55:14   Yeah, I would love to see a 15 inch iMac or iPad, 15 inch iPad with, uh, with, uh, you

00:55:21   know, for artists and anyone else who wants a big screen, but I don't want it.

00:55:24   I don't want a 15 inch MacBook Pro either.

00:55:27   Like no, not interested.

00:55:29   So it's just, that's just me.

00:55:31   That's my personal preference, but I'd love to see them experiment there.

00:55:34   And then, you know, my other thought is they could try different stuff, right?

00:55:38   Like I theorized about like do an iPad OS laptop or something like that, but, or a convertible,

00:55:44   although they kind of already make it because of the magic keyboard.

00:55:47   So I'm not really holding my breath at that.

00:55:49   So I don't know.

00:55:50   What do you think?

00:55:51   What, what, what's on your wishlist here?

00:55:52   Well, I mentioned about better webcam and I want in on the horizontal edge.

00:55:56   Um, if I was looking for a hardware thing and I, I just want them to keep making cool

00:56:03   new accessories because the accessories for the iPad pro have always made the iPad pro

00:56:11   the computer I want to use.

00:56:14   Like if I think back, it wasn't just that the iPad got bigger.

00:56:19   I liked that they gave it the Apple pencil.

00:56:22   I liked that they gave it the smart keyboard and then the magic keyboard and the trackpad.

00:56:26   Like for me it is the Federico talks about modularity, right?

00:56:31   And I know John Syracuse has the naked robotic core, like these ideas of a starting device

00:56:36   that you add to.

00:56:37   And it's one of the things I've always loved about the iPad is there are a bunch of accessories

00:56:43   some Apple makes some made by third parties that make it a purpose computer for different

00:56:48   things.

00:56:49   And I want to keep seeing them do more of those.

00:56:51   That's the secret of the iPad for those who don't get it is the iPad is the core unit.

00:57:00   The iPad is a touch tablet.

00:57:04   That's what it is.

00:57:05   And the beauty of it is that it can be more than that if you want and you can hook it

00:57:11   up with all sorts of stuff and then leave it there and it'll be like that permanently.

00:57:14   Or you can do what a lot of us do, which is it's a touch tablet except now it's a laptop

00:57:19   except now it's a desktop.

00:57:22   And it will work in all of those different modes with a pencil, without the pencil, with

00:57:25   a keyboard and mouse, with just a keyboard.

00:57:27   Like all of those things are there.

00:57:29   That's the beauty of it.

00:57:30   I would hate for them to get away from that and I don't think they ever will.

00:57:32   I think that that is really what Apple fundamentally thinks the iPad should be is a lot of options

00:57:38   on top of a touch tablet that's really great.

00:57:40   Yeah, I think that they've found that success because it also I think it helps a product

00:57:46   that has a longer refresh cycle keep adding new things for existing customers to buy.

00:57:55   They did that so fast where they made the magic keyboard available for the older models

00:58:02   way quicker than we would have expected them to do.

00:58:05   Before the end of the year they introduced it, you could put it on older iPads or like

00:58:10   iPads that are lower down the line as well.

00:58:14   And I think that that was a big surprise to us.

00:58:17   But it makes sense that you can sell another device that's nearly the price of the thing

00:58:23   to extend the current thing and give it a longer life.

00:58:29   And they did it with a smart keyboard, they did it with the Apple pencil, they did it

00:58:32   with the magic keyboard.

00:58:34   So it's again like I want to see Apple create, I don't even know what it is, right?

00:58:38   Because I don't think I could have guessed something like the magic keyboard.

00:58:43   Like everyone's doing these docks and stands right now.

00:58:45   Well, what's an Apple version of this?

00:58:47   What does it do?

00:58:48   Like, why would I want that?

00:58:49   Right?

00:58:50   It could be anything, but I want to see them continue to push along that line.

00:58:55   Because for me, that's where genuinely like the true power of the iPad as a device lives

00:59:00   in all of the things that I can do with it, which aren't just I'm reading a comic on it,

00:59:07   you know, because it's so perfectly made for that.

00:59:10   And I do do that.

00:59:11   I read on my iPad, I've actually started reading on my 11 inch more and more, and like making

00:59:16   it better for that.

00:59:17   And I've been using it there.

00:59:19   But I want to keep seeing them do things with these machines that fun, weird accessories

00:59:27   can can make a reality.

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01:01:34   Let's do some hashtag ask upgrade questions.

01:01:38   Nepali asks, do you think there is a possibility that a huge change coming for the iMac could

01:01:43   mean that they drop the i?

01:01:47   It's always possible.

01:01:48   We love talking about names on this show, right?

01:01:51   Yeah, I mean, it's always possible, but that is a brand that has been around for more than

01:01:55   20 years.

01:01:58   Coming up 25 years.

01:01:59   So no, like, I mean, it's always possible.

01:02:03   They could do it, but I don't think they're going to, I mean, iMac and iPhone, the premise

01:02:08   here is that starting your product with an i is, um, you know, is bad.

01:02:14   Like it's cooties, they're allergic to it.

01:02:16   They got to stop it.

01:02:17   They moved it away from all their software and all that.

01:02:19   It's like, that's not true.

01:02:20   It's past a little bit now, right?

01:02:21   Like the i.

01:02:23   It is except in the places where like, I don't think iMovie is going to become movies.

01:02:28   Um, and I don't think iPhone, the iPhone is going to turn into Apple phone, right?

01:02:33   We've had this argument before on here.

01:02:35   Like iPhone is the name.

01:02:36   It's the name.

01:02:37   Everybody knows it.

01:02:38   It's the iPhone.

01:02:39   Like it's too late to change it.

01:02:41   And I think you hurt yourself for no reason, like for no reason, it's not like the heyday

01:02:47   of mocking Apple for having everything start with i because not everything starts with

01:02:51   i anymore, just a few things.

01:02:53   And they are the big hits.

01:02:54   Right.

01:02:55   And the iMac is like that.

01:02:56   The iMac is, I mean, they could call it the Mac.

01:02:59   Is that better?

01:03:00   Now it's confusing because there's the Mac generally and the Mac in particular, or are

01:03:03   they going to call it something else?

01:03:04   Mac studio or something like that.

01:03:06   I just don't think, I think iMac is the name.

01:03:09   Everybody knows it's the clearest that you're going to get.

01:03:13   And so I don't see why you'd change it.

01:03:15   So don't put it, don't put it past them.

01:03:19   Let's just say don't put it past them.

01:03:20   They do lots of weird things like pro max and all of that.

01:03:24   Like there are weird Apple naming things that happen all the time, but this strikes me as

01:03:29   them shooting themselves in the foot.

01:03:30   If they do, if they change the iMac or the iPhone, honestly, it's just like, that's what

01:03:37   the name is.

01:03:38   So it's, it's, it's so old that it's classic, right?

01:03:43   It's moved past, it's moved past the time where it's like, ah, what are they doing with

01:03:49   all these i names?

01:03:50   And now we're just, oh yes, it's the iMac.

01:03:52   It's always been the iMac.

01:03:54   So this before many times at a certain point, the name of the thing just becomes what it

01:03:57   is and you is devoid from what it was originally created for.

01:04:01   It's just what it is.

01:04:02   Right.

01:04:03   Yes.

01:04:04   And cause I was thinking about this the other day, uh, Adina was popping downstairs and

01:04:08   I was like, Hey, you're going to take your phone.

01:04:10   And I just had that moment of like, this isn't a phone, right?

01:04:15   Like all of the, you know, again, this is not an original thought, but all of the things

01:04:18   that it does.

01:04:19   And it made me think if Apple called the iPhone something else, it didn't have the words,

01:04:23   phone in it.

01:04:25   Whatever that word is, I think is the word that we would use to describe these devices.

01:04:29   Like if they had chosen a different word, I think it would have become like the Google

01:04:35   it or like a Kleenex or Hoover type situation.

01:04:39   But because they call it iPhone, I just think the word phone stuck around.

01:04:43   So if Steve Jobs had said, we can't wait to introduce it to you today, here it is the

01:04:49   hose, then we'd all just, you know, don't forget your hose.

01:04:51   You bringing your hose with you?

01:04:52   Are people addicted to their hose?

01:04:54   I mean, I would have maybe suggested something that made more logical sense for a product

01:04:58   name, but that is what I'm saying.

01:05:01   Yes.

01:05:02   If they would have travel, I don't know.

01:05:04   Why, why are we just in garden garden?

01:05:07   Why are we gardening?

01:05:08   I don't know.

01:05:09   Steve jobs loves gardening.

01:05:10   Are you looking outside the window right now?

01:05:12   There's no gardening implements out there, but I am looking outside the window right

01:05:16   now.

01:05:17   Like imagine if it was called like, I don't know, like communicator.

01:05:22   Yeah.

01:05:23   Let's imagine they called it the Apple communicator.

01:05:25   I could imagine that we would just say, Hey, did you get your communicator?

01:05:28   Like it would have been given a different name.

01:05:31   Like, cause as we said before, the word phone, we know it as a certain thing and later generations

01:05:37   are going to know that word is a different thing.

01:05:40   And that is super interesting.

01:05:41   Right?

01:05:42   I know the word phone to me is a home phone, right?

01:05:45   That's what that word means.

01:05:46   Phone at its core.

01:05:48   That's how I remember it.

01:05:49   It's what I grew up with.

01:05:50   But younger people, I mean, do they even have, we don't have a home phone.

01:05:57   We've never had a phone in this house.

01:05:59   So if we have children, our children will only ever know phones as iPhones.

01:06:03   And there's a phone app on the, on the phone, right?

01:06:05   Which is like, what, wait, what, huh?

01:06:08   There's a phone in my phone?

01:06:09   There's a tiny phone inside of the phone.

01:06:12   Just keeps going down.

01:06:14   Kevin asks, are you surprised that Disney plus increased their price, had a price increase

01:06:19   so soon?

01:06:20   Do you think that this is something we'll expect every 18 months?

01:06:23   I don't know about the frequency of it, but we're not surprised.

01:06:30   Look back on upstream from when they announced their pricing and we said it's very aggressive

01:06:34   and they're going to get a lot of subscribers and then they're going to very, very slowly

01:06:38   boil the frog, right?

01:06:39   They're going to keep on raising it up.

01:06:41   And now all the competitors are out there and all their competitors are charging less

01:06:44   than they want to, but more than Disney.

01:06:46   And then Disney's like, all right, now we're going to start to crank up the price and everybody

01:06:50   else will too.

01:06:51   And that's, what's going to happen.

01:06:52   So yeah, that, that was very clearly a price to get lots of people in the door so that

01:06:58   they could then very slowly start raising the prices, um, to where they want them to

01:07:03   be.

01:07:04   And so not surprised at all was obvious from the moment they announced their pricing.

01:07:08   Cause I know like I'm in the exact mindset that Disney want me to be.

01:07:12   What's 6.99 when I was paying 5.99, right?

01:07:16   And like, that's the ball of the front.

01:07:17   They just put out by a pound every couple of years.

01:07:21   And I'm probably going to be fine with it cause it's just like enough a pound, right?

01:07:24   Like I don't really, I, if I use it enough and I'm getting value out of it, I'm fine

01:07:30   with that.

01:07:31   12 pounds a year.

01:07:32   Like I can find that for Disney plus if I enjoy the content.

01:07:34   And in fact, they're raising the price at the moment that they are putting all of this

01:07:38   content on every, almost every week.

01:07:40   Right?

01:07:41   So it's like the originals are rolling out now.

01:07:44   So there is more ongoing value now and this is the time when they start to raise the price.

01:07:49   Yeah.

01:07:50   Like I was paying all of that.

01:07:51   I was paying 5.99 a month when I wasn't really watching a lot of it.

01:07:54   Right.

01:07:55   We watched a bunch of movies when it came out and then didn't watch anything for a while

01:07:59   and then watch one series, didn't watch anything for a while.

01:08:02   And now they've got weekly content that I want.

01:08:04   So like, yeah, I'm making my money back now.

01:08:06   Right.

01:08:07   Like, um, so it's, I have, this is why they would do it and I have no issue with it for

01:08:12   me.

01:08:13   Right.

01:08:14   Chris asks, someone who bought a HomePod two days before it became a quote product in the

01:08:18   lineup, should I return it?

01:08:20   I like the sound, but I'm not as impressed as I thought I would be.

01:08:24   Return it, Chris.

01:08:25   If you don't, if you're not impressed and it's a product that is not going to get updates

01:08:28   at presumably at some point and is discontinued, send it, get it back, send it back, get a

01:08:34   HomePod mini cheaper.

01:08:36   You might like it just the same.

01:08:37   Right.

01:08:38   And if you do, then you're also then have a product that they're going to keep making

01:08:42   or get some other smart speaker.

01:08:43   Yes.

01:08:44   But I would send it back because, uh, you just bought it, you can send it back.

01:08:49   You're not as impressed as you thought you would be.

01:08:51   That's the key to me.

01:08:52   It's like, oh, I love it.

01:08:53   It's great.

01:08:54   Should I send it back?

01:08:55   And like, no, you love it.

01:08:56   You just told me you loved it.

01:08:57   Yeah.

01:08:58   If you're not as impressed as you thought you would be, I'd send it back.

01:09:00   Because you're not even getting the main benefit out of it, which is that it sounds like it's

01:09:03   supposed to sound good.

01:09:04   If you don't think that like it's also not going to get stuff.

01:09:07   Can you imagine it's really like the, um, the old lady who swallowed the fly.

01:09:12   It's like, well, one home pod, you're not even getting your best out of it, which is

01:09:16   to have two home pods.

01:09:17   Oh no.

01:09:18   Now I bought two discontinued home pods.

01:09:20   Well, you could buy another pair for the other end.

01:09:22   It's like, this is how Chris ends up with the last 15 home pods ever made.

01:09:26   I've heard as well from multiple people that, that refer to me as having multiple home pod

01:09:32   pairs in the last few weeks.

01:09:34   Talking about the issues I've had.

01:09:35   I feel sorry for all those people who have invested a lot of money into this product

01:09:40   and now it's gone away.

01:09:42   And Sahar asks, do you remember your first experience with the iPod touch?

01:09:47   And do you feel the second question, maybe we can answer the second question first.

01:09:51   Do you feel that the current iPod touch will be discontinued soon?

01:09:53   So start with that and then tell me if you remember your first iPod touch experience.

01:09:58   Apple seems to find value in having a, an iPod touch around, otherwise it would already

01:10:02   be gone and they have it on a very slow update schedule.

01:10:06   So I don't know.

01:10:07   I mean, I guess my answer would be, I guess they could discontinue it, but they could

01:10:12   have done that years ago and they still haven't.

01:10:14   I think they should make like an iPod at some point.

01:10:20   And it's just because they could make like a product that appeals from a retro perspective.

01:10:26   They could just make like a little iPod, you know, I think it'd be kind of cute.

01:10:29   They made some kind of like iPod mini.

01:10:31   Well, I was thinking you take the iPod touch and there was that guy who did the mock-up

01:10:34   of the, of an app that emulates the front screen of an iPod.

01:10:38   And I thought, well, that's what you should do.

01:10:40   Apple should, okay.

01:10:42   Apple should get, as we've talked about here, get on the high resolution audio bandwagon,

01:10:47   right?

01:10:48   They should, they should do a high quality tier of audio on Apple music.

01:10:54   Then the new iPod or iPod touch, it has support for the high quality audio, including, you

01:11:01   know, sideloading high quality audio files.

01:11:04   So, so play up the audio quality of the device and put that app on it too.

01:11:09   So that it's like full on iPod mode.

01:11:11   Oh man, that's cool.

01:11:12   I would be into it.

01:11:13   And it makes it a kind of like a modern yet also retro music player, but also does everything

01:11:19   an iPhone does device.

01:11:21   That's my pitch.

01:11:22   I would like that.

01:11:23   Do you, do you have any particular fond memories of your first experience?

01:11:26   I do.

01:11:27   I have a very fond memory of my iPod touch experience.

01:11:29   I got the original iPhone and been on the iPhone ever since.

01:11:32   So I have, I, my only fond memories of the iPod touch are that I think we got one for

01:11:36   my kids at one point, but like, no, I don't have any.

01:11:40   So I have a very particular story with the iPod touch because the iPod touch came out

01:11:46   here before the iPhone did.

01:11:50   Because you may not remember this or know this.

01:11:53   Cellular carriers and all.

01:11:54   Yeah.

01:11:55   Yeah.

01:11:56   Like the iPhone was us only for a while.

01:11:58   And the end up coming here, I think it was the next year.

01:12:01   I think it was like February or something of the next year.

01:12:05   So I don't know, maybe six months or something.

01:12:07   The iPhone had been out, but they had the Apple touch follow not too long after.

01:12:12   So it actually debuted outside of the U S before the iPhone could, because it was easier

01:12:19   for Apple to do that.

01:12:20   As you say, because of cellular and all that kind of stuff, needing partners.

01:12:23   And I remember I was in central London one day.

01:12:26   I think I was when I was still working for a bank and I was doing some kind of training

01:12:33   in central London and I was near the Regent Street store and I was just walking past.

01:12:37   There was like this big hubbub in the store and turned out that they had iPod touches

01:12:41   available and was selling them.

01:12:43   This is a few days.

01:12:44   I don't know why this happened.

01:12:45   And I'm pretty sure my memory is this way that they were selling it a couple of days

01:12:49   before it was supposed to debut.

01:12:52   I don't know why this happened.

01:12:54   So I obviously went in and bought one because I cared about this stuff just as much then

01:12:58   as I do now.

01:13:00   And so this ended up being my original experience for what iPhone OS was and what it was going

01:13:09   to be.

01:13:10   Because again, if you cast your mind back, if you were around then or if you could just

01:13:14   think what it would have been like, there was nothing like the iPhone from a visual

01:13:19   design perspective.

01:13:21   Nothing had existed like it before and it was completely new.

01:13:24   Stuff like just the way scrolling worked and like the rubber band scrolling made people

01:13:30   gasp when they saw it.

01:13:32   We hadn't seen something like this before.

01:13:34   It was something truly new.

01:13:36   So just using the operating system in and of itself was a treat.

01:13:41   And I just spent hours with this thing.

01:13:45   I remember we went on a family vacation to Spain and I have this memory of sitting in

01:13:51   the villa while everybody was out in the pool because I was manually editing all of my contact

01:13:57   entries on my iPod Touch and adding in images and changing all the formatting.

01:14:03   And that for me was just fantastic.

01:14:05   So I have very fond memories of using the iPod Touch.

01:14:07   I also jail broke it later on as well because why not?

01:14:10   And I remember that thing getting really, really hot.

01:14:13   So the iPod Touch was a special product to me because it was effectively my first iPhone

01:14:20   really.

01:14:21   So I love that.

01:14:22   Yeah.

01:14:23   And I have all those same memories but of the iPhone.

01:14:26   Yeah.

01:14:27   Exactly.

01:14:28   Because it was something truly special and very, very new.

01:14:31   If you would like to send in a question for us to answer on the show, just send out a

01:14:34   tweet with the hashtag #AskUpgrade or you can use question mark #AskUpgrade in the Relay

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01:14:48   Thank you so much to everybody that signs up.

01:14:50   It really helps support this show and we hope that you enjoy the additional content that

01:14:54   you get from that.

01:14:55   I want to take a moment to talk to you about another show here on Relay FM.

01:14:59   It's called Pictorial.

01:15:00   It is a show about art history for anyone and everyone and you don't need an art degree

01:15:04   to listen.

01:15:05   It's hosted by Quinn Rose and Betty Chen and their next episode of the show is all

01:15:09   NFTs.

01:15:10   So if you've been wondering what an NFT is and how it could be affecting the art world,

01:15:14   this is the show for you.

01:15:16   Go to Relay.fm/pictorial or search for pictorial wherever you listen to podcasts.

01:15:21   I would like to thank our sponsors for this week's episode, Squarespace, Literati and

01:15:26   LinkedIn Jobs.

01:15:27   If you'd like to find Jason online, you can go to SixColors.com and he is @JSnell, JSNEELL.

01:15:33   I am @IMyke and we'll be back next week.

01:15:38   Until then, say goodbye Jason Snow.

01:15:41   Goodbye Myke Early.

01:15:41   [Music]

01:15:47   [Music]