Upgrade

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music]

00:00:08 ◼   ► From Relay FM, this is Upgrade episode 335, and today's show is brought to you by Hover and Devanthink.

00:00:17 ◼   ► My name is Myke Hurley, and I am joined by Jason Snell. Hello, Jason Snell.

00:00:21 ◼   ► Hello, Myke Hurley.

00:00:23 ◼   ► How are you today?

00:00:24 ◼   ► I'm doing okay, how are you?

00:00:26 ◼   ► I'm very well, my friend.

00:00:27 ◼   ► It's a holiday here in America, you know, it's a holiday.

00:00:31 ◼   ► But my boss doesn't give me those holidays often.

00:00:34 ◼   ► Neither does yours because we got to do Upgrade.

00:00:37 ◼   ► We have to, why wouldn't we?

00:00:39 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:00:40 ◼   ► I have a #Snartalk question for you that comes from Stitch, who says,

00:00:45 ◼   ► "You often mention, Jason, that Upgrade signifies the start of your week.

00:00:49 ◼   ► Do you have anything specific to signify the end of your week?"

00:00:53 ◼   ► Oh, man, I used to, and I don't anymore. That's my answer.

00:00:58 ◼   ► The, uh, I used to end my week Friday afternoon doing a podcast called TV Talk Machine

00:01:07 ◼   ► with my friend Tim Goodman, who was the chief TV critic at The Hollywood Reporter.

00:01:12 ◼   ► However, Tim has retired as a TV critic, which makes it impossible to do a show

00:01:18 ◼   ► talking about the shows Tim has seen because he's like not watching TV anymore.

00:01:26 ◼   ► And so we had to park that show and it's sad because that was a fun show to do.

00:01:29 ◼   ► And that was my Friday afternoon.

00:01:31 ◼   ► The Upgrade and TV Talk Machine were my bookends of my week, but now I don't.

00:01:34 ◼   ► Now it's just Friday afternoon.

00:01:36 ◼   ► And like last Friday afternoon, I wrote a big article and I did a bunch of other stuff.

00:01:40 ◼   ► And I shipped out a bunch of things that had been sitting in my office for months.

00:01:45 ◼   ► I shipped them all out and took them to the post office and all of that.

00:01:48 ◼   ► And it got to be about three or four in the afternoon.

00:01:50 ◼   ► And I had that moment where I thought, "Yeah, I'm done.

00:01:54 ◼   ► Done for the week. I'm calling it."

00:01:57 ◼   ► But it was not as ceremonious as it used to be.

00:02:02 ◼   ► There isn't something on the calendar anymore that signifies.

00:02:05 ◼   ► Exactly. That's the important thing is you got to have that.

00:02:07 ◼   ► Well, the TV Talk Machine also, we would have it on the calendar at like one o'clock.

00:02:10 ◼   ► But really one o'clock on Friday was when I would email Tim and say, "When do you want to do it?"

00:02:18 ◼   ► And sometimes we would do it at one.

00:02:19 ◼   ► Sometimes it'd be three.

00:02:20 ◼   ► Sometimes it'd be four.

00:02:21 ◼   ► Sometimes it would be perfectly timed.

00:02:24 ◼   ► Well, I found the email more reliable to reach him than texting.

00:02:28 ◼   ► Look, I love Tim, but he is not a super technical person.

00:02:34 ◼   ► He's got his own way of using technology.

00:02:37 ◼   ► When he was a TV critic, at least, email was the best way to reach him

00:02:40 ◼   ► because he was always on his laptop writing his articles and stuff.

00:02:44 ◼   ► And I also used one of these web services, Cast, to record our podcast

00:02:50 ◼   ► because I could not rely on him, I felt, to actually record his audio

00:02:56 ◼   ► and send it to me in some way.

00:02:58 ◼   ► So I was like, "Let's not even bother.

00:02:59 ◼   ► We're just going to use the website to do it."

00:03:02 ◼   ► And you've worked with a bunch of people.

00:03:05 ◼   ► You've collaborated with a bunch of people.

00:03:06 ◼   ► You come to know their particular quirks.

00:03:09 ◼   ► And then you fit into that particular quirk.

00:03:14 ◼   ► So yes, we would get to Friday afternoon and it'd be like, "What do you think?

00:03:18 ◼   ► One?"

00:03:18 ◼   ► And he'd be like, "How about two?"

00:03:20 ◼   ► Or, "How about three?"

00:03:21 ◼   ► Or whatever.

00:03:22 ◼   ► And sometimes it would be like four or five, and it would be much later in the

00:03:25 ◼   ► afternoon, but I knew that once we had recorded and I had posted TVTM that the

00:03:32 ◼   ► weekend was here.

00:03:34 ◼   ► That was a good feeling.

00:03:36 ◼   ► If you would like to send in a question to help us open an episode of Upgrade, just

00:03:40 ◼   ► send out a tweet with the hashtag #snowtalk or use question mark #snowtalk in the

00:03:44 ◼   ► Relay FM members Discord.

00:03:46 ◼   ► Please send in any of those.

00:03:48 ◼   ► It would be wonderful.

00:03:49 ◼   ► I have some follow-up for you, Jason.

00:03:50 ◼   ► A couple of things.

00:03:51 ◼   ► Apple has extended the free trial of Apple TV+ until July 2021.

00:03:58 ◼   ► So this is the original free trial.

00:04:01 ◼   ► It's continuing to be extended.

00:04:03 ◼   ► So now at this point, it's going all the way up until July.

00:04:10 ◼   ► Interesting, right?

00:04:11 ◼   ► Well, I guess they got a...

00:04:15 ◼   ► I'm fascinated by the continued extensions here.

00:04:17 ◼   ► Like, "Well, no, no, we need to do it a little bit more."

00:04:20 ◼   ► But we've talked about it in Upstream a lot.

00:04:23 ◼   ► The COVID...we are now entering, I feel like, the period where a lot of TV is...that

00:04:31 ◼   ► was made pre-COVID is out and the stuff that's being made during COVID is only

00:04:37 ◼   ► starting to ramp up, and so all their schedules got thrown out of whack.

00:04:42 ◼   ► And we all know that they wanted to have everything, a really strong fall in order

00:04:47 ◼   ► to get people to convert to paid, and then their stuff got delayed.

00:04:52 ◼   ► And so here we are where they want to extend, they're going to do this again.

00:04:56 ◼   ► Right?

00:04:57 ◼   ► They're going to give people more free stuff and then say, "No, no, now.

00:05:00 ◼   ► Really now."

00:05:01 ◼   ► And it helps them build up a catalog too.

00:05:03 ◼   ► I think one of the things about having Apple TV+ have been out for a while is

00:05:08 ◼   ► you start to build up that catalog.

00:05:09 ◼   ► You start to have...they're going to have two seasons of "For All Mankind" and

00:05:16 ◼   ► "The Morning Show," and they have two seasons of "Dickinson."

00:05:20 ◼   ► And then you can say, "Well, look, here's the value is not only do you get the new

00:05:24 ◼   ► stuff that's just rolling out, but you get all these movies that we did, and you get

00:05:27 ◼   ► these TV shows that we did," and that makes it...they're spending this time not

00:05:31 ◼   ► only just giving this away for free, but they're also building up a catalog to make

00:05:34 ◼   ► it a more interesting service.

00:05:36 ◼   ► And that's important because there's still not a lot of breakthrough, I think,

00:05:41 ◼   ► with stuff that we know because it's on Apple TV+, but that the general public

00:05:46 ◼   ► doesn't know exists.

00:05:47 ◼   ► And I say this because I was watching "Jeopardy" last week.

00:05:52 ◼   ► "Jeopardy," Myke, is a game show.

00:05:54 ◼   ► - I know what "Jeopardy" is.

00:05:55 ◼   ► - Do you have a different word for that?

00:05:57 ◼   ► Is it a quiz show?

00:05:59 ◼   ► Is it...you call talk shows "chat shows," so I don't know what you call game shows.

00:06:03 ◼   ► Are they game shows?

00:06:04 ◼   ► - They're game shows, unless they're quiz shows, then they're quiz shows.

00:06:06 ◼   ► I would say that it's more of a quiz show than a game show.

00:06:09 ◼   ► - It is a quiz show.

00:06:10 ◼   ► Anyway, they had a category that was television.

00:06:15 ◼   ► Television titles, I think, is what it was.

00:06:18 ◼   ► And it was Jason Sudeikis stars as a football coach who goes to England to

00:06:24 ◼   ► coach a soccer team.

00:06:26 ◼   ► And you cut, as you do in "Jeopardy," to the three contestants,

00:06:30 ◼   ► and they're all staring into space.

00:06:33 ◼   ► Nobody knew it was Ted Lasso.

00:06:38 ◼   ► And I thought, "There you go.

00:06:41 ◼   ► These people don't know anything about Apple TV+."

00:06:44 ◼   ► And right there, I was like, "That is Apple's challenge, is Apple's got to get

00:06:49 ◼   ► above the noise," because I feel like Ted Lasso is one of the shows that's got great

00:06:54 ◼   ► word of mouth.

00:06:54 ◼   ► Everybody's talking about it.

00:06:56 ◼   ► And yet those three "Jeopardy" contestants, at least, never heard of it.

00:06:59 ◼   ► No idea.

00:07:00 ◼   ► - I feel like that Ted Lasso is maybe the only show that's really broken out.

00:07:05 ◼   ► But yes, it's still not enough yet.

00:07:09 ◼   ► Ted Lasso season two is officially in production now as well.

00:07:12 ◼   ► This is another announcement that Apple...

00:07:14 ◼   ► - It is.

00:07:15 ◼   ► Hooray.

00:07:16 ◼   ► That's great to hear that they've done that.

00:07:19 ◼   ► And I should say that I think they recorded that "Jeopardy" episode.

00:07:22 ◼   ► It's the first batch after Alex Trebek died, so it's probably November that they

00:07:27 ◼   ► recorded those.

00:07:28 ◼   ► So I feel like the Ted Lasso conversation continues to build and spread.

00:07:34 ◼   ► So, you know.

00:07:36 ◼   ► But again, adding to the catalog and doing a second season, they'll do second season

00:07:39 ◼   ► promotion when it comes out and tell everybody to go back and binge the first

00:07:43 ◼   ► season, which is what the new promo for "For All Mankind" season two came out.

00:07:47 ◼   ► And at the end of it, it doesn't just say February.

00:07:50 ◼   ► It says, "Binge the first season now."

00:07:53 ◼   ► I'm like, "Oh, yeah, you should...

00:07:55 ◼   ► Yeah, that's the right way to promote a season two of a show on Apple TV Plus

00:08:00 ◼   ► because maybe you've never even heard of it."

00:08:02 ◼   ► - All right.

00:08:02 ◼   ► We have a bunch of reports to talk about today that have come from various sites.

00:08:08 ◼   ► And the first one comes from the information with a secondary report from

00:08:13 ◼   ► Bloomberg about Apple apparently planning on adding a paid podcast subscription

00:08:20 ◼   ► service to its current roster of services.

00:08:23 ◼   ► The thinking behind this is that the space is heating up now and Apple sees this as

00:08:27 ◼   ► an option for them as well, along with companies like Spotify, Sirius, Amazon,

00:08:33 ◼   ► and many more.

00:08:34 ◼   ► And the thinking is that if they want to get into this, they have to get into this

00:08:37 ◼   ► now before too many shows go platform exclusive to platforms that aren't Apple

00:08:42 ◼   ► podcasts.

00:08:43 ◼   ► And then the overall usage of Apple's platform is diminished.

00:08:48 ◼   ► Like a lot of people will say, and they're right, that Spotify is growing and kind of

00:08:54 ◼   ► like fighting down Apple's overall market share of the podcast industry.

00:08:58 ◼   ► So far, it has kind of been proven that really Spotify is adding to the pie, but

00:09:03 ◼   ► unless Apple does something, is the thinking, and I can understand it to a

00:09:06 ◼   ► point, Spotify is going to start eating in to Apple's share.

00:09:12 ◼   ► If they care about that, they should do something with it.

00:09:15 ◼   ► The current plan is apparently for them to purchase original content and create

00:09:19 ◼   ► spin-offs of their own, with some of this content tying in with the stuff that they

00:09:25 ◼   ► produce for TV Plus, and they're talking to production companies now.

00:09:29 ◼   ► Honestly, we've reported and spoken about reports on this many times, like all of

00:09:34 ◼   ► these things in the past, but it kind of feels like the wagons are circling a

00:09:38 ◼   ► little bit more around this than it has been before.

00:09:43 ◼   ► Yeah, I think circling the wagons is meant to be like assuming a defensive

00:09:48 ◼   ► posture, but whatever it is, whatever metaphor you want.

00:09:51 ◼   ► Yeah, it kind of is assuming a defensive posture.

00:09:52 ◼   ► Yeah, I guess so.

00:09:53 ◼   ► I was thinking more like they're kind of cranking up their machine or whatever,

00:09:56 ◼   ► but whatever metaphor you want.

00:09:58 ◼   ► This is a thing that has been rumored for a long time, and I don't like it, but it

00:10:03 ◼   ► seems like this is just the way the game is played right now.

00:10:06 ◼   ► Like there are so many different exclusive things now, exclusive audio

00:10:12 ◼   ► former podcasts, podcasts put behind a paywall, kind of stuff like that.

00:10:17 ◼   ► And Apple's got its services business, right?

00:10:21 ◼   ► So the rumor is that they would add this probably as another $5 a month

00:10:27 ◼   ► kind of service, but also just roll it into Apple One.

00:10:30 ◼   ► And at some point, I think that's an interesting bit of analysis is does

00:10:36 ◼   ► Apple really want people to pay for it so much as, or does Apple just

00:10:41 ◼   ► want to sweeten the bundle, right?

00:10:43 ◼   ► Like the, that the $5 a month, they don't really expect anybody

00:10:46 ◼   ► to pay it for $5 a month.

00:10:48 ◼   ► They really just expect to make the Apple One bundle look better.

00:10:51 ◼   ► Um, and there's a lot of fascinating kind of buying psychology behind that one.

00:10:58 ◼   ► Um, I don't know.

00:11:00 ◼   ► It's, uh, I don't like the idea of walling off, uh, walling off podcasts, but I also

00:11:07 ◼   ► get that Spotify is, is, uh, playing hard ball here and that Apple's position

00:11:14 ◼   ► as a controlling force, a commanding force in podcasts is a little bit under siege.

00:11:20 ◼   ► So I get why they would want to do something.

00:11:22 ◼   ► The sleeping giant as Apple have very frequently referred to.

00:11:25 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:11:25 ◼   ► I feel like Apple could like make it available, not as a service, but just an

00:11:31 ◼   ► exclusive to the podcast app if they wanted to, which they've done already,

00:11:35 ◼   ► or tried to do already with Apple news today.

00:11:38 ◼   ► Yeah, exactly.

00:11:39 ◼   ► Just to, just to create more weight to like, why, why not?

00:11:42 ◼   ► Why listen to everything in Spotify?

00:11:44 ◼   ► Some stuff you need to be, but we're going to end up in a fractured, we're already

00:11:47 ◼   ► there, a fractured system where you've got podcasts that you can listen to

00:11:50 ◼   ► anywhere, and then you've got some that you can only listen to here or there,

00:11:53 ◼   ► whatever, and that's kind of unfortunate, but I'm not surprised if Apple.

00:11:58 ◼   ► We've been hearing this for a long time that Apple was going down this direction.

00:12:02 ◼   ► Wasn't there a, uh, uh, there was a pick on connected.

00:12:05 ◼   ► One of, one of the annual picks was about this and I think it was Steven and he got

00:12:09 ◼   ► it right because of the news podcast that Apple is doing, but this would be a whole

00:12:12 ◼   ► other level if they do things that are like behind a, uh, uh, uh, a service wall,

00:12:18 ◼   ► a paywall, that would be, that'd be a new, a new step for Apple.

00:12:23 ◼   ► Yeah, I think the service itself, I imagine will be more like TV plus than

00:12:31 ◼   ► news plus.

00:12:33 ◼   ► I don't think there's going to be like, support your favorite current show

00:12:39 ◼   ► by paying us and we'll pay them.

00:12:40 ◼   ► I think it's going to be very much like, Hey, look at all this content we have,

00:12:44 ◼   ► uh, from people that you may know from producers that you may know, don't

00:12:49 ◼   ► you want this, give us money.

00:12:50 ◼   ► I think that it's going to be more of option B and option A.

00:12:55 ◼   ► Is that, you know, you see, I think I see a lot of people comparing it to one or

00:12:59 ◼   ► the other or saying like, Oh, this is going to be like news plus.

00:13:02 ◼   ► Um, I don't think it's going to be like that.

00:13:04 ◼   ► I really don't.

00:13:05 ◼   ► I don't think Apple's going to get into the business of collecting up membership

00:13:09 ◼   ► money on behalf of other producers.

00:13:11 ◼   ► Uh, and honestly, I think that, that they would have an even harder time getting

00:13:16 ◼   ► companies to agree to that than they do with news plus.

00:13:19 ◼   ► Um, yeah, cause it's, you know, at this point it's, it's almost trivial for

00:13:25 ◼   ► producers to create their own membership programs, like, like the one we have.

00:13:29 ◼   ► I don't, Apple can't really offer anything.

00:13:33 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:13:33 ◼   ► That's, that's one of the parts about this report that I thought was interesting is

00:13:36 ◼   ► the idea that they're trying to do like extensions, which, you know, you could do,

00:13:41 ◼   ► but you make a good point, which is, um, what's, what cut are you getting?

00:13:47 ◼   ► And would you be better off just doing it yourself as a podcast creator?

00:13:50 ◼   ► Cause I remember like, uh, hello from the magic tavern when they went on ear Wolf.

00:13:54 ◼   ► One of the things that they did is for the premium ear Wolf subscription is they

00:14:00 ◼   ► built, they did a spinoff that was not the core magic tavern, but they did their

00:14:06 ◼   ► spinoff.

00:14:07 ◼   ► There was some stuff for this on luminary too.

00:14:09 ◼   ► There was some spinoffs of popular shows on luminary.

00:14:11 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:14:12 ◼   ► So, so that's a strategy, but again, it's sort of like, it, I think it only

00:14:19 ◼   ► probably works if you are so high profile that Apple is going to guarantee you

00:14:24 ◼   ► money.

00:14:24 ◼   ► Um, that right.

00:14:27 ◼   ► That it's not going to be like, well, you'll get, you know, a percentage based

00:14:30 ◼   ► on how many people listen to your thing and all that and much more like we're

00:14:34 ◼   ► trying to build something here.

00:14:35 ◼   ► And so we're going to pay you more than, than you're going to earn for us in order

00:14:39 ◼   ► to build off our service.

00:14:41 ◼   ► And, and maybe Apple will do that, but I think that's the only way you're going to

00:14:44 ◼   ► get most, uh, anybody who's got a following big enough to have it be a

00:14:49 ◼   ► motivator to listen on Apple podcasts is you're going to have to, if you're Apple,

00:14:54 ◼   ► you're going to have to write them a check and, and, and admit that a maker of

00:14:59 ◼   ► podcast X that is very popular doing spinoff or bonus version or something for

00:15:03 ◼   ► you.

00:15:04 ◼   ► Also, you've got to find somebody who doesn't have that strategy already, which

00:15:10 ◼   ► I think most very popular podcasts probably already have a Patreon or

00:15:15 ◼   ► membership of some kind, but you've got to come in there as if you're Apple in

00:15:19 ◼   ► that scenario and say, uh, we're going to pay you 50 grand, a hundred grand,

00:15:26 ◼   ► 250,000, whatever it is, we're going to pay you just a check to do this for us.

00:15:32 ◼   ► Because we need to build our service on the back of people like you and all that

00:15:37 ◼   ► value accumulates to us.

00:15:39 ◼   ► And we know that, so here's some money to help us do that.

00:15:42 ◼   ► And it has to be more than what they just make doing it themselves.

00:15:46 ◼   ► So I, I don't know.

00:15:49 ◼   ► It'll be interesting to see what they, what they do.

00:15:50 ◼   ► And I'm not entirely convinced that it will do anything, but this is an

00:15:55 ◼   ► interesting thing.

00:15:56 ◼   ► I read a report, um, that analysts are starting to question Spotify's move here

00:16:05 ◼   ► because there is no indication right now that they're seeing any growth in

00:16:13 ◼   ► subscriptions because of podcasts that they've brought in, right.

00:16:18 ◼   ► They're doing a great job of increasing podcasts, listening on their platforms.

00:16:21 ◼   ► And there may be some benefits from that, including something that we talked about

00:16:25 ◼   ► when they started this, which is the more time people on Spotify are listening to

00:16:28 ◼   ► podcasts, which are free more or less than, uh, music, which they have to pay

00:16:32 ◼   ► rights to, uh, you know, rights fees.

00:16:34 ◼   ► Then that's, that's sort of good for Spotify, but I think, I think that's the

00:16:39 ◼   ► risk, right?

00:16:40 ◼   ► Is that Spotify is making this big move that Apple is going to have to answer for

00:16:44 ◼   ► in order to get control of this, a little subset of an industry called podcasting

00:16:50 ◼   ► that has no value to them.

00:16:53 ◼   ► Right.

00:16:54 ◼   ► And that we didn't even mention, like another story that is related to this is,

00:16:59 ◼   ► uh, the, the public radio consortium that bought pocket casts a couple of years ago.

00:17:03 ◼   ► They put that up for sale.

00:17:05 ◼   ► And, and, and I looked at that story and I thought this, this feels to me a little

00:17:10 ◼   ► bit similar.

00:17:12 ◼   ► I don't know the details of that at all, other than, but it just gives me this

00:17:15 ◼   ► vibe that maybe there was a brief idea that podcast infrastructure was a gold

00:17:23 ◼   ► rush.

00:17:24 ◼   ► And maybe it's not, maybe everybody who rushed there is now like, why are we doing

00:17:30 ◼   ► this?

00:17:30 ◼   ► Like, this is not, which is not to say that podcasters aren't making money, but

00:17:35 ◼   ► like, is Spotify really benefiting by all the money that they put into podcasting?

00:17:39 ◼   ► Is that really going to lift them or are they now a major player in a space that

00:17:44 ◼   ► doesn't help them because you could, being a major player is great.

00:17:49 ◼   ► It's great.

00:17:49 ◼   ► But if all it is is pride and like nickels and dimes, but you spent a lot of money

00:17:59 ◼   ► and you're spending a lot of effort and potentially diluting your brand and

00:18:03 ◼   ► diverting your audience from, I always thought that there was an issue with

00:18:07 ◼   ► Spotify that you were going to get people hooked on podcasts and they were going to

00:18:09 ◼   ► realize they didn't need to pay for Spotify anymore.

00:18:11 ◼   ► So I don't know.

00:18:13 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:18:14 ◼   ► It's, it'll be interesting to see what happens here, but, um, I think those

00:18:18 ◼   ► analysts comments are, are fascinating.

00:18:20 ◼   ► Like what if Spotify has done a good job here and has, has, and then looks at the

00:18:25 ◼   ► results and says, Oh, it didn't really do anything like important.

00:18:29 ◼   ► All right.

00:18:29 ◼   ► It's like people were just still, I mean, they might be signing up, they're signing

00:18:33 ◼   ► up for the free accounts.

00:18:34 ◼   ► It's like, it's not moving the needle and they spent $800 million on it.

00:18:38 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:18:39 ◼   ► And it's like, okay, you may have done a decent job bringing, making some money

00:18:46 ◼   ► here or whatever, but it isn't worth that close to a billion dollars you've spent on

00:18:50 ◼   ► this.

00:18:51 ◼   ► Um, we've conquered Greenland everybody.

00:18:53 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:18:54 ◼   ► Well, great.

00:18:54 ◼   ► What can we do in Greenland?

00:18:55 ◼   ► Hmm.

00:18:56 ◼   ► Not much.

00:18:58 ◼   ► It's like, okay, why did we do it then?

00:19:01 ◼   ► Well, because we could like, that's, that's the question, right?

00:19:04 ◼   ► And maybe, maybe they've got a good answer and maybe they're happy with it.

00:19:07 ◼   ► I don't know, but, uh, I do wonder.

00:19:10 ◼   ► I do wonder.

00:19:11 ◼   ► This episode is brought to you by hover.

00:19:15 ◼   ► One of our longest running sponsors here at relay FM and on this show, when you

00:19:19 ◼   ► have that one big idea, where do you go?

00:19:21 ◼   ► Well, your business starts with a great domain name for so many entrepreneurs.

00:19:25 ◼   ► Hover is that first big leap.

00:19:27 ◼   ► It's that first step hover has over 300 domain name extensions to choose from,

00:19:33 ◼   ► because no matter what you want to build, there's a great domain name waiting for

00:19:36 ◼   ► it and hover can give you that.

00:19:38 ◼   ► And what I love about hover is how easy it is to search for that domain name.

00:19:42 ◼   ► You go there, you can search for the domain in entirety.

00:19:45 ◼   ► If you know exactly what you're looking for and if it's available, they'll tell

00:19:47 ◼   ► you, you can register it super quick, or you can just type in some words and it

00:19:51 ◼   ► will give you suggestions and you can scroll through and take a look at all of

00:19:54 ◼   ► the domain extensions and all the domain options you might find something there.

00:19:58 ◼   ► Which is great for you.

00:20:00 ◼   ► Like I had no idea that dot live domains existed until I found out on hover and I

00:20:06 ◼   ► registered one and created like a whole little brand around it because I thought

00:20:08 ◼   ► it sounded super cool for live streaming, but you can get any type of domain that

00:20:12 ◼   ► you want hover.

00:20:13 ◼   ► They have them available to you.

00:20:15 ◼   ► They have excellent technical support to answer any questions you may have.

00:20:18 ◼   ► They are dedicated to getting you online, not upselling you.

00:20:22 ◼   ► Hover has free who is privacy and all of the domains that support it.

00:20:26 ◼   ► So bad guys won't get your information.

00:20:28 ◼   ► They have great user experience talking about how quick it is to register.

00:20:32 ◼   ► You can go from search to like check out and done in like a minute.

00:20:37 ◼   ► It's so fast.

00:20:38 ◼   ► It's almost dangerous how fast it is because of the amount of

00:20:40 ◼   ► domains that I've registered.

00:20:42 ◼   ► They also have monthly sales on popular top level domains as well.

00:20:46 ◼   ► It's so easy to see why hover is the popular choice for people

00:20:49 ◼   ► starting their businesses.

00:20:51 ◼   ► I want you to go and check it out.

00:20:53 ◼   ► It's so awesome.

00:20:54 ◼   ► It's so simple.

00:20:55 ◼   ► It's if you have used any domain registrar in the past, I guarantee

00:20:59 ◼   ► you you're going to get a better experience with hover.

00:21:02 ◼   ► So go and buy your domain and start using it today.

00:21:05 ◼   ► Go to hover.com/upgrade and you will get a 10% discount on all new purchases.

00:21:11 ◼   ► That URL one more time is hover.com/upgrade.

00:21:16 ◼   ► Make a name for yourself with hover.

00:21:18 ◼   ► Our thanks to hover for their support of this show and relay FM.

00:21:22 ◼   ► So the one of two Bloomberg reports that we're going to talk about in

00:21:26 ◼   ► detail today have come from friend of the show, actual real friend of the show.

00:21:30 ◼   ► Mark Gurman.

00:21:31 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:21:32 ◼   ► He was busy, busy, busy boy, busy boy last week.

00:21:35 ◼   ► All right.

00:21:35 ◼   ► Let's talk about just like 50,000 feet thing here.

00:21:37 ◼   ► Uh huh.

00:21:39 ◼   ► Well, there's, there's, I think one more report that we're not going to talk about

00:21:42 ◼   ► today.

00:21:43 ◼   ► We might talk about it next time.

00:21:44 ◼   ► But it seemed like, I don't know what happened, but like Mark had a bunch of

00:21:49 ◼   ► things and just released them all at once.

00:21:52 ◼   ► It's really interesting.

00:21:53 ◼   ► It was weird too, cause it was, it was Friday, right?

00:21:57 ◼   ► So it was almost like the Friday afternoon news drop, which is weird because you

00:22:01 ◼   ► try to hide things on Fridays and, and, and they were all separate articles as

00:22:05 ◼   ► well on vacation.

00:22:07 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:22:08 ◼   ► Interesting.

00:22:09 ◼   ► I'd love to know why, but so the first one we're going to talk about is a report

00:22:12 ◼   ► on the new Mac book pros.

00:22:14 ◼   ► So I'll go through this.

00:22:15 ◼   ► We can stop and talk about all of the features as they, as they go.

00:22:19 ◼   ► Uh, we're looking at 14 and 16 inch models going to be available in the Mac book

00:22:25 ◼   ► pro line.

00:22:26 ◼   ► Um, this makes sense.

00:22:29 ◼   ► I think we'd expected that, right?

00:22:30 ◼   ► Like you, you spoke about it in your predictions that it was the year for the

00:22:34 ◼   ► 14 inch right.

00:22:36 ◼   ► Uh, next generation versions of Apple silicone chips with quote more cause and

00:22:41 ◼   ► enhanced graphics.

00:22:43 ◼   ► Now, yeah, the thing I need to mention is coming mid year, right?

00:22:48 ◼   ► So this is suggesting that June this year we'll see something.

00:22:51 ◼   ► So let's talk about this then.

00:22:53 ◼   ► Um, are we looking at.

00:22:56 ◼   ► An enhanced M one, or are we talking like whatever the next class of chip is?

00:23:03 ◼   ► What do you think it could be either one, right?

00:23:05 ◼   ► Like this could be an M two or it could be an M one X, but the fact that it's only

00:23:10 ◼   ► six months out makes me think it's more likely to be for lack of a better word,

00:23:14 ◼   ► the M one X that it's an M one with more cores and it's more, you know, it's the

00:23:23 ◼   ► M one pro essentially that, that the, but it's up to them.

00:23:27 ◼   ► They can number these however they want, right?

00:23:29 ◼   ► They could number every single one in sequence, or they could say like each chip

00:23:32 ◼   ► generation, like on the, a series is a number.

00:23:37 ◼   ► And then the variants have letters at the end of them.

00:23:39 ◼   ► My guess is that six months in, you know, they're not going to be doing something

00:23:42 ◼   ► that's based on the next chip generation.

00:23:44 ◼   ► They're going to be based on this chip generation.

00:23:47 ◼   ► So I would say maybe M one X is the thing and having it be mid year WWDC,

00:23:53 ◼   ► essentially, um, that would make sense, right?

00:23:56 ◼   ► You, you got, you can't put just the same M one in a Mac book pro.

00:23:59 ◼   ► That's why it's only in the Mac book air and the low end Mac book pro now.

00:24:03 ◼   ► So what do you do to make those other systems more high end?

00:24:07 ◼   ► And the answer is, yeah, it is a, is a better chip, right?

00:24:10 ◼   ► So they would have to do that.

00:24:12 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:24:12 ◼   ► Um, so having it in these models, the Mac book pro models make sense to me.

00:24:15 ◼   ► Here's the thing that I will just follow as a possibility.

00:24:18 ◼   ► Uh, what if it's like M one, M two, M three, and then like next year's is

00:24:23 ◼   ► M one X, M two X, M three X, and they have different chips at different levels

00:24:29 ◼   ► of the product line and they're called different things, you know?

00:24:33 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:24:33 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:24:34 ◼   ► I mean, they, they, so many of the things we talk about here end up coming back to

00:24:39 ◼   ► what's Apple's marketing decision.

00:24:40 ◼   ► Yep.

00:24:41 ◼   ► Because they got a strategy technically that they're executing.

00:24:44 ◼   ► This is our, this is our iMac pro argument, right?

00:24:46 ◼   ► Will there be an iMac pro?

00:24:47 ◼   ► And I think we all kind of settled on the idea that, well, there could be,

00:24:52 ◼   ► but it's really just up to Apple.

00:24:54 ◼   ► If they want to call it, none of us seems to really believe that there's going to

00:24:57 ◼   ► be an iMac pro that's totally different from the iMac that keeps kicking around.

00:25:01 ◼   ► That seems unlikely, but that isn't stopping them from calling something iMac

00:25:07 ◼   ► pro and, you know, they chose to call this chip the M one they could call.

00:25:13 ◼   ► They could give it a name.

00:25:15 ◼   ► They could call it like M one Eagle, or they could call it M one ultra M one pro

00:25:22 ◼   ► like the Mac book pro has the M one pro, or they could just stick with what

00:25:26 ◼   ► they're doing and call it the M one X and like they did with the iPad chips.

00:25:29 ◼   ► And maybe they'll do that.

00:25:30 ◼   ► I, we, who knows, or they'll just call it the M one and say, this is a new version

00:25:34 ◼   ► of the M one it's a, it's the this many cores M one.

00:25:38 ◼   ► They it's that their choice, but it doesn't change fundamentally what

00:25:41 ◼   ► they're doing here, which is probably taking the same chip as the M one,

00:25:45 ◼   ► but a variant that's got more cores and, uh, and enhanced graphics as

00:25:49 ◼   ► Mark Herman said, a variant on the M one.

00:25:52 ◼   ► There isn't a talk in this, uh, Mac book pro, uh, rumor, at least a report,

00:25:59 ◼   ► at least of dedicated GPUs.

00:26:06 ◼   ► Do you think that that is something we would see in a Mac book pro, or do you

00:26:10 ◼   ► think they're all just going to be system on a chip integrated GPUs

00:26:13 ◼   ► and there'll be powerful enough?

00:26:15 ◼   ► My feeling is that that'll be on the chip for now.

00:26:22 ◼   ► And it will probably be enough, right?

00:26:24 ◼   ► And it could, the power that they're looking at.

00:26:26 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:26:28 ◼   ► And that they'll, they'll add GPU cores.

00:26:30 ◼   ► And, um, I think Apple probably wants to get somewhere.

00:26:34 ◼   ► You look at the Mac pro and think Apple probably wants to get somewhere

00:26:39 ◼   ► where it can use external GPUs, but.

00:26:42 ◼   ► Does it have to get there in 2021?

00:26:45 ◼   ► Eh, I don't think, you know, mid year, 2021 with a Mac book pro.

00:26:50 ◼   ► Does it really need that?

00:26:51 ◼   ► Can it have enough graphics superpowers with, with its own GPU that it needs?

00:26:56 ◼   ► It doesn't need to do that.

00:26:57 ◼   ► Um, my guess is that, that it'll keep it simple for this first generation of chips.

00:27:05 ◼   ► So we said coming mid year, this feels like a very, very sweet WWDC announcement,

00:27:11 ◼   ► right?

00:27:11 ◼   ► Like here's your new MacBook pros.

00:27:13 ◼   ► That's a perfect audience for it.

00:27:14 ◼   ► Like that feels just about right.

00:27:16 ◼   ► Like here they are, they're available now.

00:27:19 ◼   ► Right?

00:27:19 ◼   ► Like I can see, I could have really imagined this.

00:27:23 ◼   ► Uh, you know, the, the, the Mac pro is for many people, their computer, but

00:27:28 ◼   ► for developers, it's like the computer.

00:27:30 ◼   ► Um, I could really imagine that.

00:27:31 ◼   ► Right.

00:27:32 ◼   ► It feels like it fits in quite nicely.

00:27:33 ◼   ► Higher contrast displays.

00:27:38 ◼   ► So we have to wait and see what exactly what that looks like, but better display

00:27:44 ◼   ► technology in some form or fashion, uh, allowing for better color reproduction,

00:27:48 ◼   ► reproduction, and apparently they, these MacBook pros will look similar

00:27:54 ◼   ► with minor design changes.

00:27:56 ◼   ► So you'd expect, uh, the 14 inch will look most like the 16 inch

00:28:01 ◼   ► rather than the 13 inch now.

00:28:03 ◼   ► Right.

00:28:03 ◼   ► So like the 14 will change the most.

00:28:06 ◼   ► It will start to look like the newer generation, but that overall doesn't

00:28:10 ◼   ► seem like from Mark Gurman's report that they're going to look that different.

00:28:13 ◼   ► Um, I will add that Ming-Chi Kuo also had a report about these, which

00:28:19 ◼   ► detailed just a couple of things extra.

00:28:20 ◼   ► One of the things that Kuo says is that they will get a flat edged design,

00:28:24 ◼   ► which makes logical sense.

00:28:27 ◼   ► Right.

00:28:27 ◼   ► That's the Apple 2020, 2021 design language.

00:28:31 ◼   ► Right.

00:28:33 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:28:33 ◼   ► That'll look more like a, uh, two ply, uh, iPad pro kind of thing.

00:28:39 ◼   ► Right.

00:28:39 ◼   ► That's the way to put it, but yes.

00:28:41 ◼   ► Yep.

00:28:41 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:28:42 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:28:43 ◼   ► I I'm, that's why I'm in marketing, right?

00:28:45 ◼   ► That's why I'm not in marketing.

00:28:46 ◼   ► It's a marketing decision.

00:28:47 ◼   ► They can call it what they want.

00:28:48 ◼   ► We know what it looks like.

00:28:49 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:28:50 ◼   ► I, I, this is interesting.

00:28:52 ◼   ► Cause Gurman sort of saying, man, it'll look more or less the same and Ming-Chi

00:28:55 ◼   ► Kuo saying, well, no, it's going to be a little bit flat edge.

00:28:58 ◼   ► These, this may be just the opinion of people who've seen it.

00:29:02 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:29:03 ◼   ► And that they're actually describing the same thing.

00:29:05 ◼   ► It's the parable of the blind man and the elephant, right?

00:29:07 ◼   ► Like they're, they're actually the same, but coming at it from different

00:29:11 ◼   ► directions, but it does seem contradictory on the surface, just it's more or less

00:29:16 ◼   ► like the old design and Ming-Chi Kuo saying, no, it's really not.

00:29:19 ◼   ► So the way I've, I mean, cause you know, like MacBook pros have science.

00:29:25 ◼   ► My imagination for what is being described here.

00:29:29 ◼   ► Um, is that they will, they will be flat on the bottom because the MacBook

00:29:37 ◼   ► pro kind of has that taper out and it's a bit chunkier at the bottom, right?

00:29:40 ◼   ► I imagine them kind of basically making it a all flat box kind of design.

00:29:47 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:29:47 ◼   ► Well, well, yeah, the, the idea that it isn't going to have the sides that are

00:29:51 ◼   ► like the sort of sort of sweepy curved, but are instead more like a flat edge.

00:29:55 ◼   ► And then, and then a very quick kind of like right angle.

00:29:59 ◼   ► To another flat.

00:29:59 ◼   ► Be nice if they made them even thinner to make that happen.

00:30:02 ◼   ► That'd be fun.

00:30:03 ◼   ► Just for, you know, why not?

00:30:04 ◼   ► If they were thinner, lighter, I would love thinner and lighter.

00:30:07 ◼   ► There's nothing about that in any of these reports, but I'm just always

00:30:11 ◼   ► laptops thinner and lighter as long as they keep the power.

00:30:13 ◼   ► Of course.

00:30:15 ◼   ► Um, okay.

00:30:16 ◼   ► MagSafe is apparently coming back again because it already came back,

00:30:20 ◼   ► but it's coming back again.

00:30:22 ◼   ► Well, yeah, this is more like coming back though.

00:30:25 ◼   ► So Mark Gurman is saying that MagSafe on the new MacBook Pros is going to be

00:30:30 ◼   ► more like the old version of the MagSafe design, almost like a pill shaped kind

00:30:35 ◼   ► of connector, not what we've seen for iPhones, which I think is confusing.

00:30:42 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:30:43 ◼   ► You know, it's again, it's just how they market it.

00:30:46 ◼   ► They're like, we use MagSafe technology in a bunch of different ways and a

00:30:48 ◼   ► bunch of different places on the Mac.

00:30:50 ◼   ► MagSafe is like this and on the iPhone MagSafe is like this.

00:30:52 ◼   ► And then I think they could, they could get away with it.

00:30:56 ◼   ► It is interesting though.

00:30:57 ◼   ► One of the things that most frustrates me about a person who talks about Apple

00:31:03 ◼   ► products in an audio medium for a living is having to qualify everything.

00:31:08 ◼   ► I know.

00:31:09 ◼   ► And this would be just another qualification.

00:31:11 ◼   ► MagSafe for MacBook Pro, MagSafe for iPhone, right?

00:31:15 ◼   ► Like which one?

00:31:16 ◼   ► The old, no, no, the old MagSafe.

00:31:18 ◼   ► No, not that one.

00:31:18 ◼   ► The second generation MagSafe.

00:31:20 ◼   ► No, no, not that one.

00:31:21 ◼   ► The right angle connector, not the, yeah.

00:31:23 ◼   ► Yeah, I know it's that for us, it's going to be extra confusing if it happens.

00:31:27 ◼   ► Isn't this fascinating though, the idea that, um, this is an undo, right?

00:31:34 ◼   ► This is, this is an undo of a design decision that Apple made mid last decade,

00:31:40 ◼   ► where they said, we're going to introduce USB-C and we're just going to drop MagSafe

00:31:44 ◼   ► and we're just going to focus on USB-C charging and it sounds like according to

00:31:48 ◼   ► Gurman, they're, they're tossing that and they're going to, I wonder if they'll

00:31:53 ◼   ► also allow USB-C charging?

00:31:55 ◼   ► I'm convinced they will.

00:31:57 ◼   ► Cause that would be madness to not have that as an option.

00:32:01 ◼   ► Well, and, and like docking, you know, docking to a monitor and stuff like that,

00:32:04 ◼   ► you know, to be able to charge that way rather than having a second thing.

00:32:08 ◼   ► It would be really annoying to both have to, uh, plug in a USB-C cable and a MagSafe

00:32:16 ◼   ► when technically there's no reason that you would need to do that.

00:32:19 ◼   ► Right.

00:32:20 ◼   ► Right.

00:32:21 ◼   ► Um, yeah, I, I mean, Apple's really annoyed people before, but I think you're

00:32:25 ◼   ► probably right that why would you backtrack offering a little MagSafe, um,

00:32:30 ◼   ► thing, a little MagSafe pill.

00:32:32 ◼   ► And also of course, yes, if you plug into the Thunderbolt port, it's

00:32:36 ◼   ► going to charge and it's fine.

00:32:37 ◼   ► Like that, that would be the best way to do it.

00:32:40 ◼   ► So I think it's great news because I, I like MagSafe and I miss it.

00:32:45 ◼   ► And having just bought a new Mac book air and you know, I didn't use my old

00:32:50 ◼   ► Mac book air that much anymore, but like it was still a MagSafe Mac book air.

00:32:53 ◼   ► And then the new one I'm like, I'm going to put this down.

00:32:55 ◼   ► Oh, I need to plug it in now.

00:32:57 ◼   ► Here's the plug.

00:32:59 ◼   ► Right.

00:32:59 ◼   ► Uh, yeah, it's not as good.

00:33:01 ◼   ► It's just not as good.

00:33:02 ◼   ► I know this is like news from 2017 for most people, but it's still,

00:33:07 ◼   ► yeah, MagSafe still good.

00:33:08 ◼   ► This one puzzles me though, a little bit because I can't really imagine that

00:33:13 ◼   ► the technology has advanced and will provide me with any different functionality.

00:33:18 ◼   ► Right.

00:33:19 ◼   ► Like it's going to be a little connected as a magnet and it

00:33:22 ◼   ► connects to my laptop and charges it.

00:33:24 ◼   ► And so the story of it coming back is going to be really weird.

00:33:30 ◼   ► Like at best I can imagine they were like, once we brought MagSafe to the

00:33:34 ◼   ► iPhone, we were like, wow, we should bring it to like, you know what I mean?

00:33:37 ◼   ► Like the, I I'm, I'm really kind of struggling to wrap my head around.

00:33:40 ◼   ► Like why?

00:33:43 ◼   ► Like, why did you get rid of it?

00:33:45 ◼   ► Now?

00:33:45 ◼   ► Why is it here again?

00:33:46 ◼   ► Again, here I am not the marketing professional, but I would imagine

00:33:50 ◼   ► looking at Apple's history, that what they'll do is a classic Apple move

00:33:53 ◼   ► where they do something to right or wrong caused by Apple and sort of say,

00:33:59 ◼   ► aren't we heroes look what we did.

00:34:02 ◼   ► So the idea that they'll come out and say, and you know, we're bringing

00:34:06 ◼   ► MagSafe back because people love it.

00:34:08 ◼   ► Like let's not mention that, you know, we also killed it, but we brought it back.

00:34:12 ◼   ► Aren't you happy?

00:34:13 ◼   ► Aren't you grateful that we brought it back?

00:34:14 ◼   ► Yay.

00:34:15 ◼   ► It's like we made a keyboard.

00:34:16 ◼   ► That's good.

00:34:17 ◼   ► Yay.

00:34:18 ◼   ► And everybody's like, well, you made the bad keyboard too.

00:34:20 ◼   ► It's like, but the keyboard is good now.

00:34:22 ◼   ► You hurry.

00:34:23 ◼   ► So I think, I think it'll be like that.

00:34:25 ◼   ► All right.

00:34:25 ◼   ► Well, let's try your new found market and prowess on this next one.

00:34:29 ◼   ► Apple is apparently testing the removal of the touch bar.

00:34:33 ◼   ► People like people like the function keys.

00:34:36 ◼   ► We brought them back.

00:34:36 ◼   ► Yay.

00:34:38 ◼   ► It's got a complete keyboard.

00:34:39 ◼   ► You know, this is not just our magic keyboard, but it's doing something

00:34:42 ◼   ► that the MacBook pro hasn't done for a while now, which is we've added an

00:34:46 ◼   ► extra row of function keys because people love function keys.

00:34:51 ◼   ► Yay.

00:34:52 ◼   ► Hooray.

00:34:53 ◼   ► This one's even weirder than me.

00:34:56 ◼   ► Well, I mean, talk about reverting to.

00:35:00 ◼   ► Oh, if this is true, I am fascinated to know what happened behind the scenes

00:35:08 ◼   ► where at some point somebody in Mac product design was like, Getting rid of

00:35:14 ◼   ► magsafe was a mistake, putting the touch bar on was a mistake.

00:35:16 ◼   ► I want them.

00:35:17 ◼   ► I want them dead.

00:35:18 ◼   ► I want them gone.

00:35:19 ◼   ► Um, we need to backtrack our laptops and you know, people say this stuff

00:35:25 ◼   ► outside of Apple all the time, but to hear it from inside Apple would be

00:35:28 ◼   ► fascinating because it is essentially Apple saying, you know what, our, our

00:35:34 ◼   ► laptops were better in 2015 than they are today that we went backward and now

00:35:41 ◼   ► we're going to go back to the future, whatever it is.

00:35:45 ◼   ► Right.

00:35:45 ◼   ► And that it's, although, although Myke, the magic keyboard is also an example

00:35:54 ◼   ► of that where they're like, remember that keyboard that people liked.

00:35:58 ◼   ► We're bringing it back.

00:35:59 ◼   ► And the Mac book air is that, which is, Oh yeah, we made these other Mac

00:36:05 ◼   ► books that people didn't buy, but, uh, the Mac book air.

00:36:07 ◼   ► So we're bringing it back.

00:36:09 ◼   ► We're going to do a new version of that too.

00:36:10 ◼   ► So you could argue that Apple has already been spending the last couple

00:36:14 ◼   ► of years trying to undo all their bad decisions from mid decade on their

00:36:17 ◼   ► laptops, but this would be pretty.

00:36:19 ◼   ► A pretty major repudiation of every attempt that they made.

00:36:25 ◼   ► Like the touch bar is like literally the only innovative Mac thing that

00:36:29 ◼   ► they did in between, I don't know when between sometime early and what I

00:36:35 ◼   ► want to say is between the introduction of the second generation MacBook air

00:36:38 ◼   ► and the M one, perhaps the most innovative, I mean, they did the

00:36:42 ◼   ► trashcan, which didn't work out the trashcan Mac pro and they did the

00:36:45 ◼   ► touch bar and if they take the touch bar away, they already killed the

00:36:49 ◼   ► trashcan Mac pro, but if they take the touch bar away, it is kind of a

00:36:53 ◼   ► repudiation of a decade of, of.

00:36:56 ◼   ► Uh, or, or maybe it just puts a little cherry on top of a decade where not a

00:37:00 ◼   ► lot of stuff happened on the Mac that the stuff that they did try didn't even

00:37:03 ◼   ► work very well and they had to dump it.

00:37:05 ◼   ► I mean, combining this with another thing from Ming Chi Kuo that more

00:37:09 ◼   ► ports are coming through the laptops.

00:37:11 ◼   ► I, I have no idea what's what's going on here.

00:37:15 ◼   ► Right?

00:37:16 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:37:16 ◼   ► Is there an SD card in there too?

00:37:18 ◼   ► Is there an HDMI?

00:37:19 ◼   ► Maybe.

00:37:20 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:37:21 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:37:22 ◼   ► I mean, this is, so when we talked about Apple Silicon unlocking a future for the

00:37:27 ◼   ► Mac, I'm not sure what I expected is that the future would actually be undoing

00:37:32 ◼   ► everything that's happened in the last six years.

00:37:35 ◼   ► The future is the past.

00:37:37 ◼   ► That's what we've learned here.

00:37:38 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:37:39 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:37:39 ◼   ► Everything goes around.

00:37:41 ◼   ► Rainbow logo.

00:37:42 ◼   ► It's going to be in beige.

00:37:43 ◼   ► It's going to be, let's just go all the way back people all the way back.

00:37:47 ◼   ► I don't know what to make of this.

00:37:49 ◼   ► Look, let me just say, sounds like an incredible product.

00:37:52 ◼   ► And everyone's going to lose their collective mind when, when, if they

00:37:55 ◼   ► announce all of this stuff, but they didn't even mention whether there's face ID,

00:37:59 ◼   ► which I would hope that if they redesign these products, they would put the, the

00:38:03 ◼   ► sensors on to do face ID too, right?

00:38:07 ◼   ► And I think that, that I think Apple will consider that acceptable for the laptop

00:38:12 ◼   ► line for quite a while.

00:38:13 ◼   ► It's probably, it's probably fine, but I still had that when I was docked when I

00:38:18 ◼   ► had my laptop.

00:38:19 ◼   ► Well, yeah, I mean, it's fine.

00:38:20 ◼   ► Cause you put it in clamshell mode and it can't see you anyway, right?

00:38:23 ◼   ► For face ID.

00:38:24 ◼   ► So it's fine.

00:38:25 ◼   ► Uh, we'll save that for the iMac.

00:38:26 ◼   ► Maybe they'll do it there, but I don't know.

00:38:28 ◼   ► This is, um, you're right from a product introduction standpoint, it will be very

00:38:34 ◼   ► interesting to see how Apple addresses or chooses just not to address the fact that

00:38:40 ◼   ► it's undone a bunch of the things that it, it had done in the past.

00:38:44 ◼   ► This is the, you know, swallowing its pride kind of thing.

00:38:48 ◼   ► But my guess is that based on their previous behavior, they'll just touted as a

00:38:52 ◼   ► great new thing.

00:38:53 ◼   ► And when you ask them about it, um, on the record, if they say anything, it'll, it'll

00:38:59 ◼   ► just be sort of like, but this is, it's one louder, isn't it?

00:39:03 ◼   ► But this is new, but this is good.

00:39:06 ◼   ► Like, well, yeah, but what about the touch bar?

00:39:07 ◼   ► It's like, well, we think that, uh, we think people will use this.

00:39:11 ◼   ► Like, I, my guess is that they won't even talk about it.

00:39:13 ◼   ► I could imagine a, we listened to our customers.

00:39:18 ◼   ► For the touch bar.

00:39:18 ◼   ► Yeah, that's a, that's a good one that they, that they do a lot, which is we

00:39:22 ◼   ► listened and although we think that the touch bar was innovative, you know, the

00:39:26 ◼   ► fact is that it wasn't being as used as much as we'd hoped and that people really

00:39:30 ◼   ► liked the physical keys, they, they could lean into that and say, um, it, it, it

00:39:36 ◼   ► turns out that adding a touch surface on that plane didn't actually work or they

00:39:41 ◼   ► could just say, we, you know, people wanted this, so we're going to give them what

00:39:45 ◼   ► they want.

00:39:45 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:39:46 ◼   ► This isn't in, this is, I mean, look, we have more, but like, this is the beginning

00:39:51 ◼   ► of what seems to be a very clearly interesting and exciting year for the Mac.

00:39:58 ◼   ► Oh yeah.

00:40:00 ◼   ► If they do this stuff and let's just say, right, like when it comes to things like

00:40:04 ◼   ► this, Mark Gurman has a very, very good track record, right.

00:40:09 ◼   ► With like hardware.

00:40:11 ◼   ► Right.

00:40:12 ◼   ► I think that's pretty fair to say.

00:40:14 ◼   ► Um, either they just do all the things that's in Mark Gurman's article here.

00:40:19 ◼   ► That is a unpredictable computer from a year ago, 18 months ago.

00:40:27 ◼   ► Right.

00:40:29 ◼   ► Like tell me, uh, long time user of the Mac.

00:40:34 ◼   ► What are all of the things that are wrong with the current crop of Macbook pros and

00:40:38 ◼   ► what do you want them to do?

00:40:39 ◼   ► And then you go through and list all the things and then then Apple says, here you

00:40:44 ◼   ► go then, and that doesn't seem right.

00:40:47 ◼   ► It's like, oh, okay.

00:40:49 ◼   ► We're going to get bigger screens, uh, better chips, better displays, uh,

00:40:54 ◼   ► mag safe, more ports, uh, and a removal of the touch bar.

00:40:58 ◼   ► Well, so I, a couple of weeks ago I wrote a Mac world piece where I said, um, Apple,

00:41:05 ◼   ► it was keyed off of this, uh, Twitter comment that somebody made where the only

00:41:08 ◼   ► Intel Mac that was in 20 max for 2020 was the first generation or the second

00:41:13 ◼   ► generation Mac book air.

00:41:14 ◼   ► And I said, I didn't realize that, which is funny.

00:41:19 ◼   ► And then there were some other ones that were kind of on my list, but I, I, the

00:41:23 ◼   ► piece in Mac world that I wrote was basically that Apple sort of had a Mac

00:41:28 ◼   ► stasis for most of the 2010s.

00:41:30 ◼   ► It was just sort of on a combination, I would say of a mid decade, sort of not

00:41:37 ◼   ► focusing on the Mac.

00:41:38 ◼   ► And also I, I think a perception that they got it right with the Mac and that

00:41:43 ◼   ► flurry of creative activity that they did between, you know, 98 and 2010,

00:41:49 ◼   ► that they kind of got it right.

00:41:51 ◼   ► And now the Mac is shaped up and they obviously were moving on to worrying

00:41:56 ◼   ► about the iPhone and the iPad and the Apple watch and like the Mac is doing

00:41:59 ◼   ► great because they did spend, they, they, they threw so much at the wall in that

00:42:04 ◼   ► period of 12 years in terms of the Mac.

00:42:08 ◼   ► And completely transformed it.

00:42:09 ◼   ► So that's great, but that was a long time ago.

00:42:12 ◼   ► Now that was more than a decade ago and the 2010s didn't really

00:42:16 ◼   ► have a lot that was successful.

00:42:18 ◼   ► And so while I'm excited about the idea that in 2021, they might be undoing

00:42:23 ◼   ► some of the things that they tried to make the Mac different that weren't

00:42:27 ◼   ► successful, I, I have to ask.

00:42:35 ◼   ► Does Apple think that the MacBook pro is perfect?

00:42:38 ◼   ► Like, do they think that the, do they really think that other than chip

00:42:43 ◼   ► speed and some spec updates and maybe some thinness and lightness, that the

00:42:49 ◼   ► thing that they designed that the retina MacBook pro of 2014 or whatever was

00:42:55 ◼   ► perfect and that there's nothing more to be done with a laptop that a laptop

00:42:59 ◼   ► that's sort of silvery metallic with a regular keyboard with a magic keyboard

00:43:04 ◼   ► with function keys and a big track pad and a non touch screen and some ports

00:43:12 ◼   ► on it is literally all a laptop should ever be or could ever be?

00:43:15 ◼   ► Um, cause I'm not sure I believe that I'm not, I think maybe they designed

00:43:22 ◼   ► to the perfect laptop for a decade, but that was a decade ago.

00:43:26 ◼   ► What's next?

00:43:28 ◼   ► And you see the PC laptop makers struggling, trying all sorts of different

00:43:32 ◼   ► things.

00:43:33 ◼   ► Some of them are successful.

00:43:34 ◼   ► Maybe some of them are not.

00:43:35 ◼   ► Apple doesn't do that in public.

00:43:38 ◼   ► Apple does that behind the scenes and perhaps they've tried a whole bunch of

00:43:41 ◼   ► different things and none of them are good, but I am increasingly skeptical

00:43:45 ◼   ► that the solution in the long run to making a great Mac book pro is to have

00:43:51 ◼   ► it, you know, be a blast from the past.

00:43:53 ◼   ► It's just, it's a step getting rid of the bad stuff and not holding onto

00:43:58 ◼   ► it when you decided it doesn't work.

00:44:00 ◼   ► Sorry, people who like the touch bar, but like, I feel like in general, it,

00:44:04 ◼   ► it was, it was a cul-de-sac for them.

00:44:08 ◼   ► So I like the touch bar in theory and I like what I use of it, but it is a

00:44:14 ◼   ► failure because nothing's changed on it since it came about.

00:44:17 ◼   ► That's I think that's exactly right.

00:44:19 ◼   ► Which is even if you like the touch bar, what I would say is Apple doesn't

00:44:23 ◼   ► clearly doesn't like the touch bar because Apple has made almost no attempt

00:44:27 ◼   ► to make it better.

00:44:27 ◼   ► And it's been years now.

00:44:29 ◼   ► And it's not any better.

00:44:31 ◼   ► And there were so many clear things that if they had like iterated and the

00:44:34 ◼   ► next version of Mac OS added a whole bunch of touch bar stuff and all that.

00:44:37 ◼   ► Sure.

00:44:38 ◼   ► But they never did it, which suggests to me that whoever championed the touch

00:44:43 ◼   ► bar, nobody else inside Apple believed it and, and went along with it.

00:44:47 ◼   ► So.

00:44:48 ◼   ► So don't get me wrong undoing failures or like eliminating mag safe or bad

00:44:56 ◼   ► product decisions, like conceiving of a touch bar and shipping it.

00:44:59 ◼   ► And then, and then realizing that you got it wrong or not getting the, you

00:45:03 ◼   ► know, not putting effort into making it a success, whatever that story is.

00:45:07 ◼   ► That's all good, but I still am left.

00:45:10 ◼   ► If, if we look at the, the Mac book pro line at the end of this year, or maybe

00:45:16 ◼   ► in a couple of years, and it looks the same more or less as the Mac book pro

00:45:23 ◼   ► from mid last decade, and the message is really like, oh, we're sorry.

00:45:26 ◼   ► It turns out the Mac book pro of 2015 was the best Mac book pro.

00:45:30 ◼   ► So we're going back to that.

00:45:32 ◼   ► That's okay.

00:45:35 ◼   ► It's pragmatic, but I would say it's also disappointing because I feel like.

00:45:40 ◼   ► Apple should be pushing what a laptop is a little bit more than they are.

00:45:47 ◼   ► Cause I don't, I mean, I can see the argument that maybe the laptop has a

00:45:51 ◼   ► perfect shape and maybe they found it and that they defined it and that's what it

00:45:55 ◼   ► is, but that sounds a lot like an end of history argument to me, it sounds a lot

00:45:59 ◼   ► like, well, now that the Soviet union has fallen and the cold war is over, there

00:46:03 ◼   ► will never be anything more that will happen and everything will stay the same

00:46:06 ◼   ► forever, which is what people legitimately said in the nineties.

00:46:09 ◼   ► They were completely wrong history.

00:46:11 ◼   ► It never ends right.

00:46:13 ◼   ► As Dr.

00:46:14 ◼   ► Manhattan said in watchmen, it never ends right.

00:46:17 ◼   ► You always, you, if you get complacent and you say, oh, well, we solved it,

00:46:20 ◼   ► we're done, like, I, I don't think that inside Apple, people are complacent

00:46:26 ◼   ► about it, but I do wonder if Apple has, has just decided that there's never

00:46:29 ◼   ► going to be anything better than the MacBook pro in the shape that it's that

00:46:34 ◼   ► we know it and that it should just stay that way forever.

00:46:36 ◼   ► And I think that's a mistake.

00:46:38 ◼   ► I think, I think they will regret that eventually if they aren't trying to push

00:46:42 ◼   ► it so great, you know, great first step, but reverting to previous version is

00:46:48 ◼   ► hard to, it's hard to cheer at that as like a great victory, because it's

00:46:52 ◼   ► not moving anything ahead.

00:46:54 ◼   ► It's just fixing problems and fixing problems is probably step one of

00:46:58 ◼   ► moving ahead, but what's step two.

00:47:00 ◼   ► This feels more like it needs to be, uh, a reversion to a new baseline.

00:47:08 ◼   ► And then they push forward.

00:47:11 ◼   ► And then forward.

00:47:12 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:47:12 ◼   ► I hope so.

00:47:13 ◼   ► I hope so.

00:47:14 ◼   ► They're like, we got, like I said about the touch bar being a cul-de-sac it's

00:47:17 ◼   ► like, okay, we're backing out of here and then we can get on the freeway.

00:47:22 ◼   ► Then we can, then we can, then we can go.

00:47:24 ◼   ► And I hope that's the case.

00:47:26 ◼   ► I hope that's the case.

00:47:26 ◼   ► There's no, no rumors about that sort of thing.

00:47:28 ◼   ► Now, you know, one great way to explain the disappearance of the touch

00:47:32 ◼   ► bar would be to add a touch screen.

00:47:33 ◼   ► Just saying, you know, I thought that, but I, I was imagining that like,

00:47:38 ◼   ► we don't need a touch bar if all of those actions are now on the screen.

00:47:43 ◼   ► Right.

00:47:43 ◼   ► And it's, but my thought was that I'm sure, I'm sure if it did

00:47:49 ◼   ► go and would have known that.

00:47:50 ◼   ► Yep.

00:47:51 ◼   ► I'm convinced.

00:47:53 ◼   ► And Quo too, honestly, I think they would both know.

00:47:56 ◼   ► One of them would have, one of them would have reported that and they didn't.

00:47:59 ◼   ► Um, but I still don't think that that, that that means I am very much in the

00:48:04 ◼   ► camp of there will be a touch screen on a Mac, I think it's going to happen.

00:48:08 ◼   ► I think it could happen this year.

00:48:09 ◼   ► Um, but I think it will be over in the next couple of years.

00:48:12 ◼   ► And, uh, I will not accept that just because they haven't done

00:48:16 ◼   ► it means they will not do it.

00:48:17 ◼   ► You know, like I think a lot of people go like, ha ha, see, there's

00:48:21 ◼   ► no touch screens on these laptops.

00:48:22 ◼   ► It's like, I don't think that that means anything.

00:48:24 ◼   ► It just means there's no touch screens on these laptops.

00:48:27 ◼   ► Um, I did want to just circle back to, to the fact that the MacBook

00:48:32 ◼   ► Air being the only Mac and the modern Mac in 20 for 2020, I think if you

00:48:37 ◼   ► were doing 30 for 2030, uh, the iMac Pro would be in it, I think it's

00:48:42 ◼   ► too soon to it, but the iMac Pro feels like a very good candidate

00:48:46 ◼   ► for what was 20 max for 2020.

00:48:49 ◼   ► I mean, I wrote, I wrote a thing on six colors about the sort of what

00:48:52 ◼   ► was on the cutting room floor and yeah, there are, there are definitely

00:48:55 ◼   ► part of the challenge is you want to tell the story of the sweep of history.

00:48:59 ◼   ► And the truth is a lot of the recent stuff, everybody knows that story.

00:49:04 ◼   ► Cause we just, it just happened and you don't know, and you don't know how it

00:49:08 ◼   ► ended like the, I, I would argue the iMac Pro story still hasn't been

00:49:12 ◼   ► told because it's still being sold.

00:49:13 ◼   ► We need, yeah, so this is exactly it.

00:49:15 ◼   ► It needs more time.

00:49:16 ◼   ► And when it goes away and we find out what replaces it, which is just fast

00:49:21 ◼   ► iMacs that run in Apple Silicon, then you can be like, Oh, I know what that

00:49:26 ◼   ► article is, right?

00:49:26 ◼   ► That article is, is all about that moment where they thought they were

00:49:29 ◼   ► going to kill the Mac Pro and just have an iMac and that they realized they

00:49:33 ◼   ► had to change, but they shipped the iMac Pro anyway, and like, there's

00:49:36 ◼   ► a whole story there and there are other stories like that with some other

00:49:39 ◼   ► models, I think the Mac 12 inch Mac book is probably a great story,

00:49:43 ◼   ► but is that story over?

00:49:45 ◼   ► Maybe, maybe not.

00:49:46 ◼   ► I think the thing about the iMac Pro is that it's also an excellent computer,

00:49:50 ◼   ► which makes the story even more fun to tell.

00:49:52 ◼   ► Right.

00:49:52 ◼   ► It's like, because where the MacBook Air was like, not great in a lot of

00:49:57 ◼   ► ways, sorry, the 12 inch Mac book, you know, like the story would have

00:50:00 ◼   ► been very different.

00:50:01 ◼   ► A lot of the pieces that I wrote were about Macs that weren't weren't great.

00:50:05 ◼   ► Sure.

00:50:05 ◼   ► But I mean, sometimes they're good.

00:50:07 ◼   ► Sometimes they're bad, but yeah.

00:50:08 ◼   ► But there's a, there's a super cool story in the fact that it is this weird Mac Pro,

00:50:13 ◼   ► which is from an alternate timeline, but they released it anyway, the iMac Pro.

00:50:17 ◼   ► So they released it anyway.

00:50:18 ◼   ► They released it anyway, and it was really good.

00:50:21 ◼   ► And there was only ever one of them.

00:50:22 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:50:23 ◼   ► Oh, I, I think, I think there's truth to that, that, uh, it's not just that

00:50:27 ◼   ► 2010s was a wasteland, but it's also that we know what the 2010s is in a way.

00:50:31 ◼   ► We saw those stories, so I'm not really unearthing them.

00:50:34 ◼   ► And also we don't know how it all ends yet.

00:50:36 ◼   ► Right.

00:50:36 ◼   ► Like you do need time.

00:50:38 ◼   ► I had a bunch of people write me during the course of that series who said, what

00:50:41 ◼   ► about this current Mac and what about this current Mac?

00:50:43 ◼   ► And I said to a lot of them, there's a reason like the, that like sports hall

00:50:49 ◼   ► of fame's have a waiting period.

00:50:51 ◼   ► Like.

00:50:52 ◼   ► I think you need some perspective about some of these things and exactly where

00:50:57 ◼   ► they fit and the iMac Pro is a great example of a product that, uh, undoubtedly

00:51:02 ◼   ► there is a story to tell there, but we still don't quite know the end of it.

00:51:06 ◼   ► And I want to, I want to see that.

00:51:09 ◼   ► So that that's part of it too.

00:51:10 ◼   ► You're right.

00:51:11 ◼   ► That needs a bit of time.

00:51:13 ◼   ► Isn't there really?

00:51:13 ◼   ► Cause it's like, it's that idea of like, what is the best Mac of all time?

00:51:17 ◼   ► Well, you can make arguments that it's always the most recent one, but

00:51:21 ◼   ► maybe except for some people, the Mac Pro, but we'll see about that.

00:51:25 ◼   ► All right.

00:51:27 ◼   ► This episode is also brought to you by Dev and Think the flagship product

00:51:32 ◼   ► from Devon Technologies.

00:51:33 ◼   ► Devon Think is the most professional document and information management

00:51:37 ◼   ► application for the Mac.

00:51:39 ◼   ► It is the one place for storing all of your documents, snippets or

00:51:43 ◼   ► bookmarks and working with them.

00:51:45 ◼   ► The integrated AI assists you with filing and searching while the extensive

00:51:50 ◼   ► search language of advanced Boolean operators can help you find exactly

00:51:54 ◼   ► what you're looking for.

00:51:56 ◼   ► Devon Think features a flexible sync system that supports many cloud services

00:52:01 ◼   ► or lets you synchronize over the local network too, with

00:52:04 ◼   ► everything securely encrypted.

00:52:06 ◼   ► This gives you the choice for however syncing works best for you.

00:52:10 ◼   ► It has smart rules and flexible reminders that you automate all

00:52:14 ◼   ► parts of your workflow and delegate boring repeating tasks.

00:52:17 ◼   ► You can let Devon Think automatically organize your data

00:52:20 ◼   ► with rules that you define.

00:52:22 ◼   ► Devon Think's Apple script dictionary is one of the largest on the Mac.

00:52:25 ◼   ► There is no part of Devon Think that can't be automated.

00:52:29 ◼   ► Extend Devon Think's functionality with your own commands by adding

00:52:32 ◼   ► them to its script menu.

00:52:33 ◼   ► Even templates can have scripts inside and you can set up new documents

00:52:38 ◼   ► with data from placeholders or inserted by your own Apple script code.

00:52:41 ◼   ► And of course there is so much more from an iOS companion app to email

00:52:45 ◼   ► archiving scanning or even an embedded web server for sharing your data

00:52:50 ◼   ► securely with your team.

00:52:51 ◼   ► One of the things that I started using Devon Think for recently is to create

00:52:56 ◼   ► a searchable database of my show notes of published podcasts.

00:52:59 ◼   ► Because you can use RSS feeds of Devon Think.

00:53:01 ◼   ► So I put all the RSS feeds in for my shows, including the member versions,

00:53:06 ◼   ► so I can search for them super fast because we don't have a public web

00:53:11 ◼   ► pages for the member versions of our shows.

00:53:13 ◼   ► But sometimes I'm like, where did we talk about that thing?

00:53:15 ◼   ► It's now all in Devon Think.

00:53:17 ◼   ► So I can just search for anything and Devon Think will find it for me.

00:53:20 ◼   ► Super cool.

00:53:21 ◼   ► I really love that feature.

00:53:22 ◼   ► So you can just have all this data pulled in without you ever needing to do

00:53:26 ◼   ► anything because it's all with an RSS feed.

00:53:27 ◼   ► It's really cool.

00:53:28 ◼   ► You can get 10% off Devon Think 3 or upgrade to it right now.

00:53:32 ◼   ► Just go to devontechnologies.com/upgrade.

00:53:36 ◼   ► That's devontechnologies.com/upgrade for 10% off.

00:53:40 ◼   ► Our thanks to Devon Technologies for their support of this show and all of

00:53:44 ◼   ► Relay FM.

00:53:45 ◼   ► So Mark Gurman has also published a report about the future of Apple's

00:53:49 ◼   ► desktop Macs too.

00:53:51 ◼   ► First up, new iMac.

00:53:53 ◼   ► Slimmer bezels, no more chin.

00:53:55 ◼   ► Overall, the design will be similar to the Pro Display XDR with a flat back,

00:54:00 ◼   ► no more like bulge like the iMacs have had.

00:54:03 ◼   ► And it will quote be one of the biggest visual updates to any Apple product this

00:54:09 ◼   ► year.

00:54:09 ◼   ► One of.

00:54:10 ◼   ► I like that.

00:54:11 ◼   ► Like what a hedge that is, right?

00:54:14 ◼   ► Well, it might not be the only, and it might not be the biggest, but it's among

00:54:18 ◼   ► the biggest that will probably happen.

00:54:20 ◼   ► Well, I mean, there's something else coming, which is a little bit weird and

00:54:22 ◼   ► wonderful, but I reckon this is probably going to be the biggest, uh, like redesign

00:54:28 ◼   ► of anything that they have in the next year.

00:54:31 ◼   ► Yeah, I would say depending on how you count the, uh, 2007, I think iMac or

00:54:38 ◼   ► 2012, when they did the one that was thinner at the edges, but bulged in the

00:54:43 ◼   ► back is the last time the iMac got an update at all.

00:54:47 ◼   ► I have a 2007 iMac that looks exactly like my iMac Pro, except for the color of

00:54:51 ◼   ► the silver and the fact that it's got flat sides instead of the little curved

00:54:56 ◼   ► sides.

00:54:56 ◼   ► Yep.

00:54:57 ◼   ► Um, it really, I mean, the iMac has looked since they, they went from plastic to

00:55:02 ◼   ► aluminum.

00:55:03 ◼   ► It hasn't really changed.

00:55:04 ◼   ► So this is big and you and I have been begging for this for several years now,

00:55:11 ◼   ► because it feels like shrinking the bezels and getting rid of the chin and all of

00:55:14 ◼   ► that is obvious.

00:55:17 ◼   ► Like do that.

00:55:19 ◼   ► Why would you not do that?

00:55:21 ◼   ► But, um, it sounds like maybe it's finally going to happen.

00:55:23 ◼   ► Having an iMac that looks like it's just a computer monitor.

00:55:28 ◼   ► Like that's the dream.

00:55:30 ◼   ► That's been the dream for years and it's been close, right?

00:55:34 ◼   ► Like it's just, this looks like it's just a monitor, but ha ha, there's a computer

00:55:37 ◼   ► in there.

00:55:38 ◼   ► Like it feels like we may get to that now.

00:55:41 ◼   ► That's what this is going to be.

00:55:43 ◼   ► Like, it's not going to have space for a big Apple logo on the bottom because they

00:55:47 ◼   ► don't need that space anymore and they'll squeeze it all into what is

00:55:51 ◼   ► ostensibly just a monitor.

00:55:53 ◼   ► Yeah, that is, that's been the dream since they went with the G5 iMac to the flat

00:56:00 ◼   ► pane on a little foot is it's just a, the computer is gone.

00:56:05 ◼   ► The computer has vanished.

00:56:06 ◼   ► So, um, it's just that, you know, again, in the last decade, things have moved

00:56:11 ◼   ► along and Apple has pulled the bezels in on almost every other product that they've

00:56:15 ◼   ► made and the iMac has remained as it is.

00:56:18 ◼   ► And I, for a product that's as popular as the iMac.

00:56:21 ◼   ► And you know, when we, um, we did that episode where I talked to, uh, the product

00:56:28 ◼   ► manager for the iMac.

00:56:29 ◼   ► Um, she said, you know, it's a hugely important product.

00:56:34 ◼   ► Like we, we lose sight of it because of the laptops are more popular, but like iMac

00:56:39 ◼   ► is a huge business for Apple.

00:56:41 ◼   ► And I think that, um, it's, you probably got to lay it to down to Apple being

00:56:48 ◼   ► distracted with other stuff and deciding that the Mac was fine.

00:56:51 ◼   ► Like I said, in our last segment, like we got it, it's fine.

00:56:54 ◼   ► We'll just leave it there because it feels like the iMac should have been.

00:56:58 ◼   ► Redesigned a few years ago and they just didn't get to it.

00:57:03 ◼   ► So, hooray, cause yeah, this is a long time coming and I think it is really deserved.

00:57:08 ◼   ► And again, I'll throw out there that this is where much better webcam, uh, face ID

00:57:14 ◼   ► would be great on the iMac because you don't have a keyboard attached with a

00:57:18 ◼   ► touch ID sensor on it.

00:57:19 ◼   ► This would be a good use for something like that.

00:57:22 ◼   ► Um, obviously there's going to be a replacement for the larger one and the

00:57:25 ◼   ► smaller one.

00:57:26 ◼   ► There have been some rumors that the smaller one will come first, which

00:57:29 ◼   ► wouldn't surprise me if they did that.

00:57:31 ◼   ► Um, although Gherman's report here is about next year, they're going to do it to,

00:57:35 ◼   ► to, to, to both of them.

00:57:38 ◼   ► And so that's a question of would they release them both at the same time or not?

00:57:42 ◼   ► Uh, cause he says next generation chips, you know, the rumors that were going

00:57:46 ◼   ► around was that it might be, uh, uh, the smaller one might just be an M1 and in

00:57:50 ◼   ► the, in the spring and then that the other one would have a next generation

00:57:56 ◼   ► chip and be later on.

00:57:58 ◼   ► And I, I, that Gherman's report doesn't say that.

00:58:01 ◼   ► I'm a little surprised by that.

00:58:02 ◼   ► I would think that they would want to roll something out this spring, but maybe

00:58:05 ◼   ► not, maybe they've decided that the iMac also needs to wait and they'll do it,

00:58:08 ◼   ► uh, in a bunch.

00:58:10 ◼   ► I am very intrigued about this.

00:58:13 ◼   ► I'm very intrigued about timing.

00:58:15 ◼   ► Um, I don't think Mark gave timing for this.

00:58:19 ◼   ► It's just like this year.

00:58:20 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:58:21 ◼   ► The next generation chips is the thing that makes me think, are they going to

00:58:25 ◼   ► have a new variation on the M1 sooner than mid year?

00:58:29 ◼   ► And maybe they are, I would be a little surprised by that, but maybe, maybe so.

00:58:35 ◼   ► And it will be interesting, I think, to see what the sizes are, because it

00:58:41 ◼   ► doesn't say about the sizes, like, will they say 21 and 27 or will it go to like

00:58:45 ◼   ► 23 and 30 or something, which we've seen rumors suggesting.

00:58:49 ◼   ► Um, and you know, we spoke about wanting to have face ID and stuff that's not in

00:58:54 ◼   ► here, but it doesn't mean it's not happening.

00:58:56 ◼   ► Right.

00:58:56 ◼   ► Um, at the very least, there has to be a better webcam in all of these products.

00:59:01 ◼   ► Honestly, Apple will get eviscerated.

00:59:05 ◼   ► If they don't do that.

00:59:06 ◼   ► Uh, this is, but as exciting as all that is, it's not the most exciting thing that

00:59:11 ◼   ► was in this article, a pair of new Mac pros, a pair, a pair of Mac, new, new in

00:59:19 ◼   ► quotes.

00:59:19 ◼   ► One of these Mac pros is going to be a direct update to the current Mac pro same

00:59:26 ◼   ► design and get this potentially still using an Intel processor.

00:59:31 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:59:32 ◼   ► I'm not sure this is what I would call new.

00:59:34 ◼   ► I think this is Gurman saying they may just update.

00:59:37 ◼   ► They may do an Intel update on the Mac pro that currently exists, which I kinda,

00:59:45 ◼   ► I kinda understand why, like it allows them to keep selling this Mac pro that has

00:59:52 ◼   ► the Intel stuff and that has expansion cards and all the things we know to the

00:59:55 ◼   ► people who have a bunch of them and they're, they're institutional or they're

01:00:00 ◼   ► high-end clients and they've got lots of cards and you know, lots of very specific

01:00:04 ◼   ► needs and they aren't going to go off of Intel anytime soon.

01:00:07 ◼   ► So it kind of makes sense to keep it kicking around to do an update on it would

01:00:14 ◼   ► be surprising to me, but they could do it.

01:00:17 ◼   ► I guess if Intel has better processors, they could put them in there.

01:00:21 ◼   ► Are there new Zions?

01:00:22 ◼   ► I don't even know, but they could do that.

01:00:24 ◼   ► Or they could just keep it kicking around sort of as it is.

01:00:28 ◼   ► And that would be another way to go.

01:00:29 ◼   ► Just keep it kicking around.

01:00:31 ◼   ► I think it's interesting that he says potentially still using an Intel processor,

01:00:33 ◼   ► which also makes me wonder, are they planning to update the Mac pro with Apple

01:00:38 ◼   ► Silicon in the long run, but in the short run, they may do another, you know,

01:00:42 ◼   ► Intel update or not.

01:00:43 ◼   ► This is, this is unclear to me about whether the Mac pro full-size Mac pro is

01:00:48 ◼   ► sticking around for the long run or not.

01:00:49 ◼   ► If it's going to get an Intel update or just kick around with Intel for a while

01:00:54 ◼   ► until it gets an Apple Silicon update, still a little mysterious to me.

01:00:58 ◼   ► And I think this is very intriguing.

01:01:01 ◼   ► I could imagine it being a case of you say, as you say, if just like making the

01:01:06 ◼   ► current customers of the Mac pro feel a bit more comfortable too, like, don't

01:01:10 ◼   ► worry, like we're keeping this one around, uh, this, and this will be the very

01:01:15 ◼   ► last product that will update if they do have a actually update this one, but it

01:01:19 ◼   ► will, they'll leave it for like the full two year that they said they would, that

01:01:23 ◼   ► it was a two year transition.

01:01:24 ◼   ► They'll leave that one for the longest, and this is the update that they always

01:01:27 ◼   ► would have done to this Mac pro of like, all right, we have some new stuff to put

01:01:31 ◼   ► in here.

01:01:31 ◼   ► So we're going to do that.

01:01:32 ◼   ► Um, but like, you know, making it pretty clear, I reckon if they do this at the

01:01:37 ◼   ► same time that they do this other one, that this is probably going to be the

01:01:40 ◼   ► last one, but if you still need it, this is available to you.

01:01:45 ◼   ► Um, but it's like just a.

01:01:47 ◼   ► This is why the trash can Mac pro stayed on the price list so long.

01:01:53 ◼   ► It may be why the iMac pro stays on the price list for a while, right?

01:01:57 ◼   ► They could do that.

01:01:58 ◼   ► And it really is like, we don't want you to buy this, but you, cause they, they're

01:02:04 ◼   ► going to have people who don't want to go to apple silicon because there's a very

01:02:09 ◼   ► specific reason why they can't, or they won't because they want to stay, stay

01:02:13 ◼   ► back and they want to be, you know, all their computers are the same.

01:02:17 ◼   ► And in two years we'll buy apple silicon, but not yet.

01:02:19 ◼   ► Like I get it.

01:02:21 ◼   ► I get that they would do that.

01:02:22 ◼   ► And Mac pro is a very particular kind of high-end user that just wants it the way

01:02:29 ◼   ► they want it.

01:02:30 ◼   ► That's fine.

01:02:31 ◼   ► I get it.

01:02:31 ◼   ► Now the next one is a half sized Mac pro.

01:02:40 ◼   ► So it's similar design, half the size, apparently being called reminiscent at

01:02:47 ◼   ► the G four cube, still made of aluminium.

01:02:52 ◼   ► This is, I guess it's the mini tower.

01:02:56 ◼   ► I guess this is the Mac pro you would make if you were making all of the

01:03:03 ◼   ► internals yourself, I suppose.

01:03:06 ◼   ► I don't really know what this computer means to be honest.

01:03:09 ◼   ► Towers back in the day, mini towers, the whole idea there was that not everybody

01:03:13 ◼   ► needs to have a giant space full of cards and that you could slim it down and

01:03:17 ◼   ► create a smaller model that's cheaper, that has some expansion in it, but is

01:03:22 ◼   ► not, uh, you know, not the huge one like that.

01:03:26 ◼   ► That was a common product for a very long time on the Mac.

01:03:29 ◼   ► Idea is very popular in PCs.

01:03:33 ◼   ► My next PC that I'm building is a smaller form factor that I can put on my desk.

01:03:37 ◼   ► I don't have to put under my desk.

01:03:38 ◼   ► Exactly.

01:03:39 ◼   ► You don't, you don't need, a lot of people don't need, you know, a whole big

01:03:42 ◼   ► stack of cards, but they want like a card.

01:03:45 ◼   ► They want their video card in there or whatever they need, or they want more

01:03:49 ◼   ► internal storage, but they don't need the whole giant thing.

01:03:52 ◼   ► Apple has resisted this product for a very long time.

01:03:57 ◼   ► There hasn't been a product like this available for a long time.

01:04:03 ◼   ► Would you count the trashcan Mac pro?

01:04:07 ◼   ► No, cause it wasn't expandable.

01:04:09 ◼   ► Ah, well, there's nothing to suggest that this is expandable either.

01:04:14 ◼   ► Well, but it's a Mac pro.

01:04:17 ◼   ► So I would think that maybe it is to a certain degree, but maybe not.

01:04:21 ◼   ► In which case, I don't know what this is.

01:04:23 ◼   ► Then it is G4 cube.

01:04:24 ◼   ► The thing I was going to say is there is nothing that suggests that this is a Mac

01:04:28 ◼   ► pro right now.

01:04:29 ◼   ► M2 cube.

01:04:31 ◼   ► Well, except that he says that it's a Mac pro.

01:04:33 ◼   ► His report says it's a Mac pro.

01:04:35 ◼   ► Well, they're thinking of it as a Mac pro.

01:04:37 ◼   ► That's what Mark Gurman has said.

01:04:38 ◼   ► Yes.

01:04:38 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:04:39 ◼   ► So if we're going to take him on, I feel like that there is weight in this being described

01:04:45 ◼   ► as a Mac pro and not as a different system.

01:04:47 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:04:47 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:04:48 ◼   ► Um, a half height Mac pro and not, and that, that may be how it's pitched internally is

01:04:53 ◼   ► that even though it's a mini tower, you know, we don't think this is a mainstream system

01:04:56 ◼   ► and it's going to be very expensive, but it'll be cheaper than the Mac pro.

01:04:59 ◼   ► And it's for all those people.

01:05:00 ◼   ► We know all of us, all of us who are like, well, I'd love a pro system, but the Mac pro

01:05:05 ◼   ► is a bridge too far.

01:05:08 ◼   ► Do you imagine they would, they would have a product and call it the Mac pro mini?

01:05:11 ◼   ► Like, what is this?

01:05:13 ◼   ► Yeah, unless the, the new Mac pro becomes the Mac pro max.

01:05:19 ◼   ► Oh my God.

01:05:21 ◼   ► Do you, can Apple break the curse of small Macs?

01:05:26 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:05:29 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:05:29 ◼   ► Is there, is there room for this product?

01:05:31 ◼   ► Is there an audience for this product?

01:05:33 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:05:34 ◼   ► The G4 Cube, beautiful, failed.

01:05:37 ◼   ► Trash can Mac pro beautiful failed.

01:05:42 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:05:42 ◼   ► Mac mini successful product, but like what makes this different than a Mac mini?

01:05:46 ◼   ► Was the G4 Cube considered a professional grade product?

01:05:50 ◼   ► Power Mac G4 Cube.

01:05:53 ◼   ► Yes.

01:05:54 ◼   ► Right.

01:05:54 ◼   ► So we'll say that that is the, this is essentially a pro Mac.

01:05:59 ◼   ► The Mac pro was a pro Mac.

01:06:02 ◼   ► This would be a pro Mac.

01:06:04 ◼   ► And they have third time's a charm.

01:06:07 ◼   ► But they used to do these products all the time.

01:06:10 ◼   ► I, I, I think it's an interesting idea.

01:06:13 ◼   ► It's pitched that it's a Mac pro.

01:06:15 ◼   ► Um, it is the thing that all the, I don't know.

01:06:20 ◼   ► I, I I'm fascinated by this because they've resisted this idea for so long, but then again,

01:06:26 ◼   ► they seem to be undoing a lot of the assumptions that they made over the last decade.

01:06:30 ◼   ► I wonder about this too, a pair of new Mac pros report in general, like, is this a Mac

01:06:35 ◼   ► pro?

01:06:35 ◼   ► Cause he says it is, is the old Mac pro going to be replaced by this eventually, but not

01:06:43 ◼   ► yet.

01:06:43 ◼   ► In which case is this the new Mac pro or I don't, I don't know.

01:06:49 ◼   ► Is the old Mac pro going to be replaced with an Apple Silicon version of its current form?

01:06:57 ◼   ► It's all out there, right?

01:06:59 ◼   ► That's the question.

01:07:01 ◼   ► I, you know, as an old school Mac user, I like this idea.

01:07:05 ◼   ► And I know that there are a bunch of people who are super into the Mac and they use it

01:07:11 ◼   ► and they're power users and they have all migrated from what they used to use, which

01:07:16 ◼   ► was power max to IMAX because IMAX are pretty powerful.

01:07:19 ◼   ► And the, the Mac pro became so expensive and so high end that it was ridiculous for most

01:07:28 ◼   ► use.

01:07:29 ◼   ► I look at this product and I think that's the kind of product I would buy.

01:07:33 ◼   ► That's the kind of product where it's like, I want the power, but I'm not going to buy

01:07:40 ◼   ► the Mac pro because it's overkill.

01:07:43 ◼   ► It's too much, but this one it's intriguing.

01:07:47 ◼   ► Also intriguing because I could open it up and put more storage in it.

01:07:50 ◼   ► Possibly I would be able to buy presumably a really nice monitor.

01:07:54 ◼   ► And then if I wanted to replace the computer, I could just use that same monitor again.

01:07:58 ◼   ► If only Myke, if only Apple made a monitor that was more affordable than the pro display

01:08:05 ◼   ► XDR, this product would be perfect for it.

01:08:07 ◼   ► What?

01:08:07 ◼   ► Focused on consumer use to be sold alongside the new iMac and new iMac pro.

01:08:14 ◼   ► Can I just say, I predicted this in my predictions column, I predicted this and you were like,

01:08:21 ◼   ► Oh, I don't know, Jason.

01:08:22 ◼   ► Then again, he isn't, he says they're beginning to work on it.

01:08:25 ◼   ► So it may not actually happen in 2021, but I think it's interesting that Mark Gurman is

01:08:30 ◼   ► reporting that Apple is finally working on making a consumer level monitor, which I don't

01:08:37 ◼   ► know why it doesn't already exist.

01:08:38 ◼   ► I've ranted about here before, so I won't rant about it again, other than to say, you've

01:08:42 ◼   ► got these laptops that can drive big, beautiful screens.

01:08:45 ◼   ► You've got the Mac mini that can drive a big, beautiful screen.

01:08:47 ◼   ► You've got the Mac pro, but not everybody who wants the Mac pro wants is doing needs

01:08:53 ◼   ► a pro display XDR.

01:08:55 ◼   ► Why is there not another option?

01:08:57 ◼   ► And it sounds like finally, once again, backtracking on something that was decided a few years

01:09:04 ◼   ► ago about Apple and the Mac, which was, they weren't going to make monitors anymore.

01:09:08 ◼   ► And then they made the pro display XDR, but just that one, they seem to have finally said,

01:09:13 ◼   ► yeah, okay.

01:09:14 ◼   ► Well, all right, we'll make you a nice monitor.

01:09:18 ◼   ► And my, my guess is that it will be like a really nice iMac, except it'll just be a monitor.

01:09:24 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:09:25 ◼   ► It's like, that'll be it.

01:09:25 ◼   ► The iMac is going to look like the pro display, which is just a monitor.

01:09:30 ◼   ► So the monitor is just going to look like the new iMac, the monitor, the basic, the

01:09:32 ◼   ► monitor will be a new iMac with no computer in it.

01:09:35 ◼   ► Not going to make different panels.

01:09:37 ◼   ► It's going to be the same panel.

01:09:38 ◼   ► And I would imagine it'd just be thinner, I guess.

01:09:41 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:09:42 ◼   ► And maybe they'll be do two models for the two panels that are in the two different sizes.

01:09:46 ◼   ► And I will tell you right now.

01:09:49 ◼   ► Great.

01:09:49 ◼   ► I'll buy it.

01:09:51 ◼   ► Small Mac pro very exciting to me as the replacement for my iMac pro.

01:09:59 ◼   ► I have been assuming all along that what I would end up with is just an iMac.

01:10:03 ◼   ► Me too.

01:10:04 ◼   ► But I see this report and I think, oh, maybe a desktop Apple Silicon pro Mac with a nice

01:10:16 ◼   ► Apple monitor is where I'll end up.

01:10:19 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:10:19 ◼   ► I, I feel like in the, the, the sphere of podcasters and writers and listeners to Mac

01:10:25 ◼   ► podcasts and all that, like if this is what we think it might be, which again, there's

01:10:30 ◼   ► wish casting there.

01:10:31 ◼   ► It probably will disappoint us in some way, such as the way of the world.

01:10:33 ◼   ► But this seems like what a huge cross section of our audience has been asking for for a

01:10:39 ◼   ► decade.

01:10:39 ◼   ► So I hope so.

01:10:42 ◼   ► All I hope is there isn't a long time between the new iMacs and this.

01:10:48 ◼   ► Well, that's the thing, right?

01:10:50 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:10:53 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:10:53 ◼   ► I think, I think the truth is I'm going to buy like an awesome iMac and then six months

01:10:57 ◼   ► later, this will come out and they'll be like, oh, I got to sell this iMac.

01:11:01 ◼   ► Cause I don't even, I don't even want to think about the fact that I bought the 13 inch MacBook

01:11:05 ◼   ► pro because of that 14 inch MacBook pro.

01:11:09 ◼   ► Oh, right.

01:11:10 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:11:11 ◼   ► That's already enough.

01:11:12 ◼   ► That's why I'm happy that I bought my 9 99 MacBook air.

01:11:16 ◼   ► It's like, I got it.

01:11:17 ◼   ► I got it.

01:11:17 ◼   ► It's fine.

01:11:18 ◼   ► I'm confident the resale value of this MacBook pro though.

01:11:20 ◼   ► Like, uh, you know, I don't, I think I'll only have to pay a few hundred dollars to,

01:11:25 ◼   ► to get the new one really like indifference.

01:11:27 ◼   ► Um, but yeah, it will, it will hurt if these new iMacs come out and they're really incredible

01:11:35 ◼   ► as you'd imagine, look really good.

01:11:37 ◼   ► And then it's like, do I get one of these and hope that the little Mac pro isn't what

01:11:44 ◼   ► I want it to be?

01:11:45 ◼   ► Like, you know, like that's gonna, Ooh, that's gonna, that's gonna be a few months of conversation.

01:11:48 ◼   ► Oh, Jason, I'm so excited about the Mac.

01:11:53 ◼   ► Who would have thought it?

01:11:54 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:11:55 ◼   ► It's really funny that these reports that are kind of about like Apple going back to

01:12:00 ◼   ► basics with some decisions that they are undoing ends up being exciting.

01:12:04 ◼   ► Um, and, and maybe some new products that are reminiscent of back in the, back in the day

01:12:09 ◼   ► kind of products.

01:12:10 ◼   ► I think what it says is if these Gurman reports are true and Mark Gurman's track record is

01:12:14 ◼   ► very good.

01:12:15 ◼   ► What it says is whoever has their hand at the, on the wheel of where the Mac is going.

01:12:22 ◼   ► And again, this has probably been for a while and we're only now kind of seeing that it's

01:12:26 ◼   ► coming to fruition, but like clearly this wasn't just a, Oh yes, we're going to pay

01:12:30 ◼   ► attention to the Mac.

01:12:32 ◼   ► Clearly this was, uh, whoever has their hand on the wheel is like put in reverse, like

01:12:38 ◼   ► we said, and get on the, get on the road, like realizing that they needed to back up,

01:12:44 ◼   ► undo some mistakes and then, you know, peel out and floor it, go to new places.

01:12:52 ◼   ► It's very exciting.

01:12:53 ◼   ► The thing for me is though, is it's not necessarily so much the detail of the changes.

01:13:01 ◼   ► It's that there's so many things happening.

01:13:04 ◼   ► That's what excites me more.

01:13:06 ◼   ► Like we can talk about the detail and forever, right?

01:13:10 ◼   ► But I don't remember a time when I've been able to like, let me fill up an entire episode

01:13:15 ◼   ► of upgrade with announced potential announcement for new Mac hardware.

01:13:19 ◼   ► That's like that we're talking about excitedly.

01:13:22 ◼   ► And that we're excited about.

01:13:23 ◼   ► And not just like, Oh man, are they really not going to put the keyboard in this one?

01:13:27 ◼   ► I think that's a side effect of the whole thing of, you know, what I was saying about

01:13:35 ◼   ► the kind of malaise of the mid decade Mac, right?

01:13:39 ◼   ► Where it was just like, everything was just kind of like, you know, whatever.

01:13:43 ◼   ► There was excitement elsewhere in Apple.

01:13:45 ◼   ► And I'm not saying they were lazy.

01:13:46 ◼   ► I'm saying they were, their focus was somewhere else.

01:13:48 ◼   ► And they, I really believe they thought that Mac was going to be just sort of like kept

01:13:53 ◼   ► going as it was.

01:13:55 ◼   ► And then at some point they said, no, let's, no, we're not going to do that.

01:13:58 ◼   ► We're going to, we're going to put effort into the Mac.

01:14:02 ◼   ► Like we put it into the iPad.

01:14:03 ◼   ► And, um, this is that happening.

01:14:06 ◼   ► This is another step there.

01:14:08 ◼   ► The M1 Macs were a good step.

01:14:12 ◼   ► The Mac Pro was a good step.

01:14:13 ◼   ► This is another step in, in what I would say is the right direction, even if it is sort

01:14:17 ◼   ► of a step back and then a pivot and then a step forward.

01:14:20 ◼   ► >> Upgradients, if you no longer want to hear ads on this very program, whilst also getting

01:14:26 ◼   ► extra bonus upgrade content, you should sign up for upgrade plus it's just $5 a month.

01:14:33 ◼   ► Or $50 a year.

01:14:34 ◼   ► And you'll get tons of other benefits for being a relay FM member like annual bonus

01:14:39 ◼   ► crossover shows, including the text adventures that we do with C2PGray every year.

01:14:43 ◼   ► Extra monthly shows like backstage and fusion access to the relay FM members,

01:14:48 ◼   ► discord, and so much more.

01:14:50 ◼   ► Just go to getupgradeplus.com to sign up.

01:14:53 ◼   ► We love making the additional content for upgrade plus subscribers.

01:14:57 ◼   ► We get to share some interesting stories, talk about what's going on behind the scenes

01:15:01 ◼   ► of the show, and we get deep into some nerdy topics.

01:15:04 ◼   ► Like for example, in today's upgrade plus segment, you will get to hear how Jason was

01:15:11 ◼   ► able to watch 3D movies at home with hardware he already owns.

01:15:16 ◼   ► >> And here's my tease, which is the Microsoft Surface Go on my desk says that it's got three

01:15:27 ◼   ► hours to go.

01:15:28 ◼   ► What?

01:15:29 ◼   ► >> What could it mean?

01:15:31 ◼   ► Go to getupgradeplus.com right now.

01:15:35 ◼   ► You can sign up to become a member, support the show, and you can find out exactly what

01:15:40 ◼   ► that is all about.

01:15:40 ◼   ► Thank you so much if you check it out.

01:15:43 ◼   ► We really appreciate it.

01:15:44 ◼   ► Let's finish off today's episode with some hashtag #askupgrade questions.

01:15:50 ◼   ► Jerry asks, how many of your podcasts are video calls versus audio calls when you're

01:15:56 ◼   ► recording them?

01:15:56 ◼   ► >> None.

01:15:58 ◼   ► >> What about TPK?

01:15:59 ◼   ► >> Well, so the footnote is if there's a video version, it's a video call, otherwise it's

01:16:08 ◼   ► not.

01:16:08 ◼   ► So total party kill, where we play Dungeons and Dragons on the internet for your amusement,

01:16:13 ◼   ► that's a video call because you see our faces and you see the map.

01:16:17 ◼   ► And we have to see the map to see where our characters are and stuff like that and move

01:16:21 ◼   ► around and stuff.

01:16:22 ◼   ► But I realized that it was confusing.

01:16:25 ◼   ► I mean, a lot of people just listen to the audio version.

01:16:28 ◼   ► Most people, I think, listen to the audio version, and it's fine.

01:16:30 ◼   ► It's theater of the mind.

01:16:31 ◼   ► We try not to do it.

01:16:32 ◼   ► But I realized showing us and the map would be kind of a fun video version.

01:16:38 ◼   ► So we do that on video.

01:16:40 ◼   ► That's it.

01:16:41 ◼   ► Everything else we do, like upgrade, there's no video.

01:16:45 ◼   ► And I think, and Myke has talked about this before, he'll back me up here, I think it's

01:16:50 ◼   ► super important that you don't do video because not only is it distracting, but you end up

01:16:55 ◼   ► communicating things visually and the listeners can't see you.

01:17:01 ◼   ► So you communicate things visually and they're lost on the listenership.

01:17:06 ◼   ► So I think the quality of the conversation goes down because you're no longer having

01:17:11 ◼   ► an audio conversation.

01:17:13 ◼   ► That is all that the podcast listener gets.

01:17:15 ◼   ► You're having this video conversation that the podcast listeners are missing.

01:17:19 ◼   ► So none other than the TPK, where we also do a video version, none of the podcasts I do

01:17:24 ◼   ► have video.

01:17:25 ◼   ► Exactly.

01:17:27 ◼   ► Tim asks, would you use a waterproof HomePod mini shower edition?

01:17:33 ◼   ► No.

01:17:37 ◼   ► No.

01:17:38 ◼   ► I have a Bluetooth speaker that I use in the shower and it's fine.

01:17:43 ◼   ► I guess, I don't think I need voice control in the shower or anything like that.

01:17:51 ◼   ► My little suction cup thing works fine and yeah, I don't think I would.

01:17:59 ◼   ► It's possible, but I think that's an unnecessary thing.

01:18:03 ◼   ► Also, it's going to be battery operated and I'm going to have to charge it and stuff like

01:18:06 ◼   ► that because I don't have, you know, I'm not going to, there's nothing to plug in in the

01:18:09 ◼   ► shower.

01:18:09 ◼   ► That would be very dangerous.

01:18:10 ◼   ► So my phone's waterproof and the speakers are loud enough that works just for me.

01:18:16 ◼   ► Honestly, my iPhone, I pop it.

01:18:18 ◼   ► Well, I'm not, it's not in a case, you know, the one that I'm using right now, like you

01:18:22 ◼   ► can just, I just take it in the shower.

01:18:24 ◼   ► In fact, when my Bluetooth speaker starts beeping every 30 seconds to tell me that it's

01:18:29 ◼   ► running out of battery, which I hate so much, I just turn it off and bring my phone in the

01:18:35 ◼   ► shower and put it down.

01:18:37 ◼   ► So it's reflecting against the wall and it's fine.

01:18:40 ◼   ► Ian asks, what are your favorite mouse alternatives when working?

01:18:46 ◼   ► I'm a video editor and love my MX master three, but really need an alternative like a trackball

01:18:51 ◼   ► or a stylus.

01:18:52 ◼   ► Since I started noticing some wrist forearm strain over the past week or so.

01:18:56 ◼   ► Do you have any recommend?

01:18:58 ◼   ► It's all made great.

01:18:59 ◼   ► One, I use a Magic Trackpad and that's it.

01:19:02 ◼   ► Get a Magic Trackpad.

01:19:03 ◼   ► And this is my, it's my favorite thing that I love.

01:19:07 ◼   ► Put it on the other side of your desk and you can use one hand for zooming and panning

01:19:11 ◼   ► and then the other hand for your mouse or your whatever you're using for more fine motor

01:19:15 ◼   ► control.

01:19:15 ◼   ► So you're using both hands that will help reduce the amount of strain you're putting

01:19:20 ◼   ► on one arm.

01:19:21 ◼   ► If you're looking for other like mouse like products, you said you like MX master three

01:19:28 ◼   ► from Logitech.

01:19:29 ◼   ► Logitech also make a trackball mouse called the MX master Ergo, which you might like.

01:19:34 ◼   ► It's got a lot of the features that the MX master three has not all, but there's enough

01:19:39 ◼   ► and it's nice.

01:19:40 ◼   ► It has some tilting that you can do it too and do not sleep on getting a Wacom tablet.

01:19:47 ◼   ► I use a Wacom Intuos Pro.

01:19:49 ◼   ► It takes a while to get used to this because it's a completely different way of doing

01:19:54 ◼   ► things.

01:19:54 ◼   ► But I have found without a shadow of a doubt, the thing that is makes my life so much easier

01:20:01 ◼   ► is using a Wacom tablet because it's much more comfortable.

01:20:06 ◼   ► You're holding a pen in your hand, which you're really used to doing.

01:20:09 ◼   ► I really, really, really recommend looking into getting one of these.

01:20:13 ◼   ► I find it to be a much nicer experience.

01:20:17 ◼   ► Make sure that you select the screen area as full and tablet area as full.

01:20:23 ◼   ► And this basically means that when you're on the top left of the tablet, you're on the

01:20:31 ◼   ► top left of the Mac screen, bottom right, you're on the bottom right of the Mac screen

01:20:34 ◼   ► and you move your arm and it moves like the cursor exactly where you want it to be.

01:20:39 ◼   ► They do this thing where they try and scale it by default.

01:20:42 ◼   ► Don't do that.

01:20:43 ◼   ► But trust me, Wacom is the way to go because you can especially, I mean, especially good

01:20:50 ◼   ► for me because I'm left handed with using a pen and right handed of using a mouse.

01:20:55 ◼   ► So great.

01:20:57 ◼   ► But otherwise, just get a trackpad, put it on the other side.

01:20:59 ◼   ► Really good.

01:21:00 ◼   ► I use the medium Wacom Intuos Pro.

01:21:04 ◼   ► Really, really thoroughly recommend.

01:21:06 ◼   ► Take some practice, but I've gotten a few people on this train with me over the years.

01:21:11 ◼   ► CGP Grey got me on this train and I have convinced others.

01:21:14 ◼   ► And I typically have only ever heard good things from people.

01:21:18 ◼   ► It really, really can help a lot because it's a completely different arm movement as well

01:21:23 ◼   ► than the mouse because you kind of move your entire arm, which you don't really do with

01:21:27 ◼   ► the mouse or over trackpad.

01:21:29 ◼   ► You tend to just move your wrist and your forearm a lot more.

01:21:31 ◼   ► Really thoroughly recommended.

01:21:33 ◼   ► John says, I held out a year for the M1s like the Apple Silicon Macs, but they cannot support

01:21:43 ◼   ► two external displays, which is a huge disappointment for me and something I really want to be able

01:21:47 ◼   ► to do.

01:21:48 ◼   ► Do I grab the last Intel MacBook Air or hold out longer for Macs that can handle this?

01:21:53 ◼   ► I'm invested in a dock or monitors and need it to run logic occasionally.

01:21:59 ◼   ► I'd say keep holding out because we just talked about new MacBook Pros.

01:22:03 ◼   ► I bet they can do it.

01:22:04 ◼   ► I bet money that they will support more monitors.

01:22:07 ◼   ► Yeah, I wouldn't buy an Intel Mac now.

01:22:10 ◼   ► I would keep waiting.

01:22:11 ◼   ► You maybe only need to wait six more months.

01:22:13 ◼   ► I'm in complete agreement with Jason.

01:22:16 ◼   ► I bet those new MacBook Pros can do it.

01:22:18 ◼   ► I would say if you're really desperate, what I would do is I would, if you're desperate,

01:22:22 ◼   ► I would buy an M1.

01:22:26 ◼   ► And I think there's some ways you can bridge with a USB adapter to display port and support

01:22:34 ◼   ► two external monitors.

01:22:35 ◼   ► It's probably going to be hinky, but you could probably do it.

01:22:40 ◼   ► And then because it's an Apple Silicon Mac, it'll probably hold its value pretty decently

01:22:46 ◼   ► and you would just sell that and buy it.

01:22:47 ◼   ► But if you can just wait, I just wait, just wait because we have on good authority friend

01:22:52 ◼   ► of the show, Mark Gurman, that mid year there'll be MacBook Pros and those I would I can't

01:23:00 ◼   ► believe that they'll have the limitations of the current models.

01:23:03 ◼   ► So I would wait if you can.

01:23:05 ◼   ► Sarah in the Discord just put a link to a workaround, which I'll put in the show notes

01:23:11 ◼   ► in case you want to try out for yourself.

01:23:13 ◼   ► There are ways to do it.

01:23:15 ◼   ► You could also like get a Mac Mini and hook it up an M1 Mac Mini, but the same deal where

01:23:20 ◼   ► you'd end up selling it and getting if you are desperate, that would be the way to go.

01:23:25 ◼   ► Steve asks, do you frequently use message effects in messages on iOS?

01:23:31 ◼   ► And how do you feel about this feature?

01:23:34 ◼   ► I don't.

01:23:37 ◼   ► I did have someone do you I had somebody say happy new year to me in text the other day

01:23:44 ◼   ► and we laughed because then it's all the fireworks.

01:23:47 ◼   ► Yeah, it's very exciting.

01:23:49 ◼   ► I use tap backs a lot.

01:23:51 ◼   ► I don't use the message effects so much, but I use tap backs all the time.

01:23:54 ◼   ► And I think I'm on record as saying that I wish there were more tap backs or that I could

01:23:58 ◼   ► tap back with any emoji.

01:24:00 ◼   ► But I do use tap backs all the time.

01:24:02 ◼   ► So I would love there to be an emoji option for tap back.

01:24:06 ◼   ► You could just press it and select whatever like you can get emoji reactions in Discord

01:24:10 ◼   ► and Slack or whatever.

01:24:11 ◼   ► Similarly to the tap backs, there should be more.

01:24:14 ◼   ► They should have added more message effects.

01:24:16 ◼   ► I only ever added one more, I think, which is called celebration.

01:24:18 ◼   ► I really like them.

01:24:20 ◼   ► I use the lasers one.

01:24:21 ◼   ► I use the spinning word tornado thing all the time.

01:24:25 ◼   ► I do want to just say one thing in case people don't know.

01:24:28 ◼   ► I saw this on Twitter a while ago, and it's amazing that it messages on the Mac.

01:24:31 ◼   ► There's a keyboard shortcut for the tap backs.

01:24:34 ◼   ► Yeah, command T.

01:24:36 ◼   ► And then you just do one, two, three, four or five.

01:24:38 ◼   ► Really great.

01:24:39 ◼   ► Like I I'm so happy to find that because doing the right click and selecting it kind of sucks.

01:24:45 ◼   ► On the Mac.

01:24:47 ◼   ► Jason just sent me a message with lasers.

01:24:49 ◼   ► And now that I am using Mac OS Big Sur on my Mac Pro, which I upgraded to, I can now

01:24:55 ◼   ► see it happening.

01:24:56 ◼   ► Messages was one of the reasons that I upgraded my Mac Pro.

01:24:59 ◼   ► So I really wanted to get the full experience.

01:25:03 ◼   ► If you would like to send in a question to help us close out an episode of upgrade, if

01:25:08 ◼   ► you've got something that you think we can help you with, just send out a tweet with

01:25:11 ◼   ► the hashtag Ask upgrade or use question mark Ask upgrade in the Relay FM members Discord,

01:25:17 ◼   ► which you can become a member and support the show at get upgrade plus dot com.

01:25:20 ◼   ► Thank you if you do.

01:25:21 ◼   ► Thank you so much to our sponsors, which are Devon Technologies and Hover.

01:25:25 ◼   ► If this week's episode, if you want to find Jason online, you can go to sixcolors.com

01:25:30 ◼   ► and he is at Jason L. J S N E double L.

01:25:33 ◼   ► I am at I'm like I am Y K E.

01:25:35 ◼   ► You can find this show and many more over at relay.fm.

01:25:41 ◼   ► I'm sure that there is another program for you.

01:25:43 ◼   ► If you don't listen to if you're I bet you can find another one.

01:25:46 ◼   ► You got to relay.fm/shows.

01:25:48 ◼   ► I bet you can find something else in there that you're going to enjoy.

01:25:50 ◼   ► Thanks so much for listening to episode 335 of upgrade and we'll be back next time.

01:25:57 ◼   ► Until then, say goodbye to yourself.

01:25:59 ◼   ► Goodbye, Myke Hurley.