00:00:08 ◼ ► From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 323. Today's show is brought to you by Hover, DoorDash, and Pingdom.
00:00:27 ◼ ► There's gonna be one of many, I think, as we lead up to the rest at the end of the year.
00:00:31 ◼ ► Every year I think Apple has done too much and then the next year they just do it again or they do more
00:00:37 ◼ ► and it just keeps on happening. It's the relentless pace of Apple's fall and we're in it now. We're deep in it.
00:00:50 ◼ ► Oh boy, and the upgrade-ies. Let's just tease everything that happens at the end of the year.
00:00:54 ◼ ► There's a lot of stuff that happens every year, especially towards the end of the year, but we have a whole episode
00:01:01 ◼ ► to get to today and it will begin with a #SnellTalk question from Ty and Ty wants to know,
00:01:11 ◼ ► Unfortunately, this is gonna be a really boring answer because the answer is almost never.
00:01:16 ◼ ► A couple of years ago they came out with those the rainbow Apple logo stripe backgrounds and I thought those were great.
00:01:26 ◼ ► The six-color rainbow Apple logo and I set one of those as my iPhone background and it's still my iPhone background.
00:01:32 ◼ ► So I would say it's a couple of years usually and even my lock screen has basically been the same for two or more years at this point.
00:01:50 ◼ ► Something might change it if something happens or I come across something specific, but it's very unlikely.
00:01:57 ◼ ► If I charted it, it's probably multiple years for me to make those changes before I do.
00:02:04 ◼ ► If you would like to send in a question to help us begin an episode of the show that we can answer,
00:02:10 ◼ ► just send out a tweet with the hashtag #SnellTalk and yours may be included for a future episode.
00:02:23 ◼ ► We were both, you invited me to join a panel on the incomparable to talk about the Apple TV+ television program,
00:02:36 ◼ ► but we didn't get into any detail about it because I knew that I was going to be on this panel
00:02:40 ◼ ► along with James Sansom, Dan Morrow, Kelly Gremont, Elian Sims, Glenn Flashman, and yourself.
00:02:58 ◼ ► I don't know if I had much of that, but I did have what it is to be a Londoner and to live in London.
00:03:09 ◼ ► because like many people, I consider it one of my favorite television shows in a very long time
00:03:23 ◼ ► You should go listen to episode 537 of the incomparable where we spoke about it at length.
00:03:29 ◼ ► Yes, yes. And that's our second Apple TV+ show to get the incomparable treatment after For All Mankind.
00:03:57 ◼ ► Nobody got upset at our accents. Instead, they gave us all the follow-up that we required.
00:04:01 ◼ ► We received this many, many, many, many, many, many, many times, but I believe the first was
00:04:05 ◼ ► from Simon, who sent us in a picture of their own iPhone box that included the EarPods.
00:04:12 ◼ ► We were wondering, how is Apple going to package the particular box for French customers who
00:04:19 ◼ ► require, because of laws which are interesting, that there are EarPods in the box with the new
00:04:25 ◼ ► iPhones, unlike anywhere else in the world? Well, it turns out that they put the EarPods in a box,
00:04:30 ◼ ► and then the iPhone in that box, and it's just a big outside box with the iPhone box inside.
00:04:35 ◼ ► It's a box inside of a box, everybody. That's how they did it. There's a link in the show notes
00:04:39 ◼ ► if you want to see the tweet that Simon sent in, but basically, that's what they're doing.
00:04:45 ◼ ► Simon did also mention that the iPhone is a little bit more expensive in France than it is in Germany.
00:04:58 ◼ ► in France to account for the included EarPods. That's great. I love that there's a box within
00:05:10 ◼ ► Should we do some upstream headlines? I think so. It's been a little while. Let's get into it.
00:05:15 ◼ ► There's a lot going on. There is a lot going on. There always is. We spoke about the possibility
00:05:19 ◼ ► of this, and it has now been announced. The Apple TV app and Apple TV+ content will be available on
00:05:27 ◼ ► the PlayStation 5 at launch. This is something that we'd seen rumored that Apple was trying to
00:05:33 ◼ ► get their streaming services and their applications onto these games consoles, which are, both the
00:05:40 ◼ ► PlayStation and the Xbox, are content boxes. It's very normal. Actually, all of the streaming
00:05:45 ◼ ► services will have an app on the consoles, and Apple is now joining them. I don't think every
00:05:54 ◼ ► content partner gets this, but this is the package of Apple TV+ content. If you want to watch any of
00:06:00 ◼ ► the Apple TV+ shows, you can. But also, any TV show or movie you have bought in the iTunes app
00:06:06 ◼ ► or the movies app, whatever it's called now, will also show as you have bought on your PlayStation 5.
00:06:12 ◼ ► It's another great way for people to get the 4K content, the HDR content, which I expect
00:06:21 ◼ ► will be available because the PlayStation 5 supports all of that. Everybody's streaming
00:06:26 ◼ ► services should be available everywhere. That's how that should work. This was going back a long
00:06:31 ◼ ► time, but we were really concerned that Apple would not do that. I think that they definitely
00:06:37 ◼ ► chose the right path in following the industry conventions here because it allows for their
00:06:43 ◼ ► content to get out. When we look at a show like Ted Lasso, which I think has got a lot of word of
00:06:49 ◼ ► mouth behind it, if the only way to get that was to then buy an Apple TV, it wouldn't work.
00:06:55 ◼ ► But if you already own a Roku or you own a PlayStation 5 when it comes out, and you're like,
00:07:01 ◼ ► "Oh, the Apple app is here. I hear people talking about that Ted Lasso. I'll check it out." That's
00:07:05 ◼ ► the only way that you can build that business. If you enforce it by making people spend hundreds of
00:07:10 ◼ ► dollars to buy a box first, it's just not going to work. Well, this actually came up with the
00:07:15 ◼ ► announcement that Apple, which we mentioned I think last week, signed the distribution deal
00:07:21 ◼ ► with the owners of the Peanuts cartoons. The story in America is that they have been on
00:07:28 ◼ ► broadcast TV on a network, even though they're very old, they're from the late '60s and early '70s,
00:07:35 ◼ ► they are still aired every year on network TV, and it's become a tradition, especially the Christmas
00:07:41 ◼ ► one. It was CBS for the longest time, but it's been ABC the last few years, and their contract
00:07:50 ◼ ► ran out. As far as anyone can tell, I think this has been confirmed unofficially, behind the scenes,
00:07:56 ◼ ► Apple is the only one that has it now. There will be no broadcast of Charlie Brown Christmas
00:08:15 ◼ ► Apple has gone so far with distribution of Apple TV Plus that you can actually just go to,
00:08:20 ◼ ► I think it's tv.apple.com, in a web browser on any platform, essentially, and watch Apple TV Plus.
00:08:29 ◼ ► And of course, they're making those Peanuts holiday specials available for about three days,
00:08:35 ◼ ► four days, around the individual holidays. So even though it's very different because you've got to
00:08:42 ◼ ► have an internet connection that can stream video, as opposed to free over-the-air television, which
00:08:47 ◼ ► reaches different people. So it's not the same, and there are debates to be had about access to
00:08:52 ◼ ► this kind of content. But I will say that Apple, you know, Apple making it free isn't enough.
00:08:59 ◼ ► Apple also has to make it available, and this shows that Apple has built out Apple TV Plus to be
00:09:06 ◼ ► in a whole lot of places, including all the way back to, do you have a web browser? Then you can
00:09:13 ◼ ► see this stuff, including presumably the free thing, but also you could pay for Apple TV Plus,
00:09:25 ◼ ► Apple's partnership with A24 is bringing yet another movie to TV Plus, this time starring
00:09:37 ◼ ► It is a genre-bending movie called Bride. This is a quote from Deadline. The plot follows a woman
00:09:44 ◼ ► created to be an ideal wife, the singular obsession of a brilliant entrepreneur. When she rejects her
00:09:49 ◼ ► creator, she's forced to flee her confined existence, confronting a world that sees her as
00:09:53 ◼ ► a monster. It is on the run that she finds her true identity, a surprising power, and the strength to
00:09:58 ◼ ► remake herself as her own creation. Seems like a kind of Frankenstein. It's Bride of Frankenstein,
00:10:03 ◼ ► yeah. It's Bride of Frankenstein, but modern and interesting. Interesting. Apple has shared the
00:10:10 ◼ ► trailer for Servant season two, so this is the M. Night Shyamalan show. Premieres January 15th,
00:10:17 ◼ ► 10 episodes coming each Friday. See, the two season twos are starting to appear. I did not
00:10:22 ◼ ► watch Servant season one. We can see why they did that extension to February now, can't we?
00:10:26 ◼ ► Because everything's coming out in January. Exactly, exactly. And I think For All Mankind
00:10:32 ◼ ► is gonna premiere at some point probably in that ballpark and the morning show we know is being
00:10:38 ◼ ► shot now. And like, yeah, yeah. This is why we observed the extension, because they need more
00:10:46 ◼ ► time to roll this stuff out. Because you know that, you know, without a pandemic, they would
00:10:49 ◼ ► have had a big fall rollout. We'd be in the midst of it right now. But that's not what happened.
00:10:54 ◼ ► We don't live in that timeline. And it all would have been timed as they're timing it now that
00:10:58 ◼ ► the trials will end, the free year will end halfway through the seasons being aired. Which is,
00:11:04 ◼ ► that's what they should have done the whole time, that's what they're doing now. Yeah, go for it.
00:11:09 ◼ ► Big hubbub over the last couple of days, that Apple and Netflix were rumored to have approached
00:11:15 ◼ ► MGM regarding acquiring rights to the next Bond movie. This has been reported in many places,
00:11:21 ◼ ► in many ways. Some outlets saying that MGM were willing to talk about it, but they wanted $600
00:11:27 ◼ ► million and apparently Apple and Netflix weren't sure about this. No Time to Die is the Bond movie,
00:11:33 ◼ ► it's been heavily delayed at this point, currently postponed to potentially be released in April 2021.
00:11:39 ◼ ► As you noted in our document, the rumor has been shut down by MGM, and they at this point seem
00:11:45 ◼ ► pretty firm on a theatrical release. Personally, I still think that this Bond movie going to a
00:11:51 ◼ ► streaming service is a possibility. I would feel that MGM are testing the waters. I reckon that
00:11:57 ◼ ► there is smoke to this rumor, or smoke where there's fire kind of thing. So I agree to a point
00:12:04 ◼ ► with you, but the point is, the way that I think a lot of people are reading this is that they're
00:12:10 ◼ ► going to come up with, it's going to be a deal where there's an easy exchange of money and then
00:12:15 ◼ ► movies that we don't get to see because they're not going to be in theaters for a long time,
00:12:19 ◼ ► we'll just not be in theaters. And while we're here in the pandemic, we can just watch them on
00:12:23 ◼ ► our TV screens and people wish for that and so they want to see it. And could it happen? Sure.
00:12:29 ◼ ► The problem is that when you abandon theatrical revenue, you take an enormous hit because a Bond
00:12:35 ◼ ► movie in theaters is going to be worth hundreds of millions of dollars, right? And just releasing it,
00:12:41 ◼ ► even if you do a Trolls World Tour kind of thing and you sell it, or a Mulan kind of thing,
00:12:51 ◼ ► and you've got like, oh well, it's $30 or whatever. Very hard even then to come close to
00:12:58 ◼ ► what you'd make in theatrical. Plus, don't forget, you have to subtract what you would have made on
00:13:03 ◼ ► home video because you just did home video, right? And so you're not going to have that window. And
00:13:10 ◼ ► bottom line is, the business model and the money are not going to map from theatrical down into
00:13:20 ◼ ► first run theatrical in your house. They don't map, they're different. And that means in the
00:13:25 ◼ ► long run, that may be what happened. That may happen. And all the budgets for movies are going
00:13:32 ◼ ► to have to change because right now all these are enormous budget movies because they can make huge
00:13:35 ◼ ► money. Remember, we've spent decades now building up that movie theaters are basically only for
00:13:41 ◼ ► blockbusters. They're only for things that are suitable for large screens that you can get huge
00:13:45 ◼ ► amounts of money in. - And that if you have a good one, you'll make a billion dollars. - Exactly,
00:13:58 ◼ ► I didn't know it was that high, I now adjust my thinking. I do think they're going to, personally,
00:14:04 ◼ ► I think they're going to have to do this, but I understand why MGA don't want to. - So this is the
00:14:10 ◼ ► trick. So in the long run, if it turns out that theatrical is just not going to happen anymore,
00:14:15 ◼ ► to the degree that it used to, what will happen is the strategy will change and they'll make movies
00:14:19 ◼ ► that are cheaper. But they've got these movies that they made under the old rules that may still
00:14:23 ◼ ► be the new rules. They may not be, we don't know. Nobody knows when movie theaters will be open
00:14:29 ◼ ► everywhere because there are lots of markets where the virus is ramping up and the movie theaters
00:14:33 ◼ ► are closing, where they're going to be closing. And then when they open, how comfortable are
00:14:37 ◼ ► people going to be sitting in an enclosed space with random people for, especially packed movie
00:14:43 ◼ ► theater on a new release for three hours, two and a half hours, that is going to take a while.
00:14:52 ◼ ► then they'll keep on doing what they're doing. And if it doesn't, they'll change and they'll make
00:15:03 ◼ ► assuming those are true. And if you're MGM, you're like, well, and we've seen everybody do this.
00:15:08 ◼ ► We've got a big tent pole movie and we're going to move it because we have already spent hundreds of
00:15:16 ◼ ► millions of dollars on this thing. And if we wait it out, wait the virus out and put it in a theater,
00:15:22 ◼ ► we'll make our money back and we'll make a profit. If we give up, we're really just cutting our
00:15:27 ◼ ► losses, but we're guaranteeing our losses. And that's a tough one to do, especially if you don't
00:15:35 ◼ ► own the, for example, streaming service to which value can accrue. So like Pixar has a movie that
00:15:43 ◼ ► is by all accounts, a great movie, Soul, which is coming to Disney+. It's going to premiere on
00:15:48 ◼ ► Disney+. It's just not going to go to theaters. - And they're not doing the Mulan thing. It's
00:15:51 ◼ ► just they're doing the Hamilton model. - They're doing the Hamilton thing. And we talked about it
00:15:55 ◼ ► a couple of weeks ago, but like Pixar is owned by Disney. It loses money for Disney, but it also
00:16:02 ◼ ► promotes Disney+ and accrues value to Disney+. And so you can bite the bullet. You can get away with
00:16:07 ◼ ► it. You're like, well, okay, we might as well put on Disney+. We're going to lose some money, but
00:16:11 ◼ ► we gain cash for Disney+. And that's the next best thing. But if you're MGM, you can't do that.
00:16:20 ◼ ► MGM is looking at like, we put all this money into this movie. We need to make the money back. We
00:16:25 ◼ ► need 700 million, 600 million. - MGM is always struggling financially and they need James Bond,
00:16:32 ◼ ► right? James Bond makes MGM is my understanding. - Yeah. - But so like, you know, the way that this
00:16:39 ◼ ► could work is, is Apple going to give MGM a billion dollars for James Bond because that's what they're
00:16:44 ◼ ► going to, you know, that could be what they want. Is it possible? Probably not. - Probably not.
00:16:49 ◼ ► - A good thing to do, but who knows? - But this is, this is the trick is the negotiation isn't pay us
00:16:56 ◼ ► what we would, what we would have made without a pandemic. Cause there's a pandemic. The negotiation
00:17:00 ◼ ► is how much are you willing to pay for exclusivity on your streaming service of this James Bond movie
00:17:11 ◼ ► Um, or, or I don't know what, like maybe there are other models there too, but let's just assume
00:17:18 ◼ ► it's simple and it's like James Bond movie premiers on Netflix or on Apple TV or whatever.
00:17:22 ◼ ► How much are you willing to pay us? And internally as MGM, we're thinking, how are we ever going to
00:17:30 ◼ ► get to release this? - And if, and if and when we do, will we never make the money that they
00:17:34 ◼ ► would have given us because no one's going to go and see it and they'll wait for it to come
00:17:38 ◼ ► to home for cinema. - Right. Cause they delayed Tenet, right? And then they finally released Tenet
00:17:42 ◼ ► and Tenet didn't do well because there were lots of places where in the US where the movie theaters
00:17:46 ◼ ► weren't open and the, the number of people who were going was very small and, and you could wait
00:17:51 ◼ ► it out. But like at one point, are you saying, well, we're not going to release No Time to Die
00:17:55 ◼ ► until, you know, 2022 or something like that. Like at some point you got to release it, I would think.
00:18:02 ◼ ► And you are betting that the, that the theater market theatrical market is going to come back.
00:18:09 ◼ ► But I think if you look at what people thought in April or May, they would have thought that
00:18:13 ◼ ► December would have a theatrical market back and that's not going to happen in a lot of places.
00:18:19 ◼ ► And so that's, that's what's weighing on MGM is, is there, is there an amount of, an amount of money
00:18:25 ◼ ► that allows us to cut our losses, actually get paid for this thing and get it off of our plate
00:18:33 ◼ ► instead of having it just sit there where we just have to wait until hope, because if it was certain
00:18:41 ◼ ► that theaters would be open at a hundred percent box office in August of next year, MGM would just
00:18:47 ◼ ► say, we're coming out in August of next year. And they'd, Warner would move Wonder Woman to August
00:18:53 ◼ ► of next year. Like everybody would be like, great. If we've got to guarantee that the box office is
00:18:57 ◼ ► back that moment, that weekend, when the box office is back, we're there, but nobody knows.
00:19:01 ◼ ► And so that uncertainty means that you have these kind of interesting negotiations. So if I, if I
00:19:06 ◼ ► had to bet, I'd bet that this is not happening, but never say never. Right. Like, I don't know what
00:19:13 ◼ ► motivates MGM. I don't, I don't know. Well, you can say it the one time, just never say it again.
00:19:19 ◼ ► So, uh, we'll see, because the truth is somebody may make MGM an offer that they can't refuse.
00:19:29 ◼ ► That's a Godfather movie. That's totally different. Anyway, uh, it's fascinating to watch this because
00:19:35 ◼ ► this is, this is about like money invested that there's like sunk costs. And you're like, do we
00:19:40 ◼ ► get a little bit back now or do we, do we double down and hope for the best coming up later? But
00:19:44 ◼ ► what I do want to, I just want to re state that. I've seen a lot of people, especially tech people,
00:19:50 ◼ ► people in our sphere saying, Oh, just put it on home video. It's great. Like charge 30 bucks or
00:19:54 ◼ ► whatever. And it'll work out. And the truth is it won't work out because they are not for, if they
00:19:59 ◼ ► do something like that, they're not going to make a hundred million dollars. They're not, they're
00:20:02 ◼ ► going to make less than that. I wish, I wish it were that simple. Trust me, all of these movies
00:20:08 ◼ ► that have been delayed would just get released on home video. If it was a one-to-one equivalent
00:20:13 ◼ ► or even, I don't know, maybe even a two to one equivalent or one to one half equivalent in terms
00:20:19 ◼ ► of money, but it's not like it's not the money and theatrical has been enormous and they really don't
00:20:26 ◼ ► want to bypass that if they can avoid it. I wonder what the whole James Bond back catalog is worth.
00:20:33 ◼ ► You know, like, is there a deal? I don't know what the rights are that MGM have. I don't think
00:20:37 ◼ ► James Bond is available for streaming anywhere. I don't think I don't recall it, but you know,
00:20:42 ◼ ► is there a situation where MGM can wrap it all up to someone and ask for like 2 billion for it?
00:20:49 ◼ ► I mean the entire James Bond back catalog streaming on a streaming service would be very
00:21:02 ◼ ► which is that Viacom CBS owns that. I don't know. The rumor about MGM was always that they were
00:21:10 ◼ ► going to get bought by somebody, that somebody was going to buy them and, you know, and buy out
00:21:14 ◼ ► them and Eon or whoever owns all the rights to James Bond and basically like take it all and just
00:21:20 ◼ ► absorb it into a larger entity. Like one of the tech companies, Netflix, Amazon, Apple.
00:21:31 ◼ ► They're all just pushing them. No, you wait. You just wait. We'll talk about it later on.
00:21:38 ◼ ► Yeah. Check back with me later. It's fascinating to watch this because it's a very difficult
00:21:42 ◼ ► situation that everybody who has spent hundreds of millions of dollars on a movie expecting hundreds
00:21:48 ◼ ► of millions of dollars or a billion dollars back and has been left. Like the music stopped and
00:21:54 ◼ ► there's no chair to sit on. And they're like, uh, uh, what do we do now? So, um, it's, it's
00:22:01 ◼ ► fascinating to watch. We'll see. Last thing we have to talk about at least a little bit.
00:22:06 ◼ ► Uh, Quibi is, is shutting down. Yeah. Quibi. We talked about it a little bit. This is the
00:22:11 ◼ ► quick bites service. The idea that what you really want is not, uh, to watch a movie when you're in
00:22:17 ◼ ► the checkout line or play a video game. You want to watch a very short video. Um, and, uh, this is
00:22:23 ◼ ► the just Jeffrey Katzenberg led service. Couldn't take screenshots. It wasn't available on anything
00:22:30 ◼ ► but phones. It was a bad idea. Somebody wrote in to us a few months ago and said, uh, what,
00:22:34 ◼ ► what about Quibi? And basically we made fun of it and said, it's a disaster waiting to happen.
00:22:38 ◼ ► And that was, you know, I think even before the pandemic, we thought that, but then pandemic
00:22:43 ◼ ► happened, it's like, well, who is out and about where they would watch Quibi things. I, I think
00:22:50 ◼ ► the short version of Quibi is Jeffrey Katzenberg's historic hit, uh, success in the entertainment
00:22:58 ◼ ► industry convinced a lot of overly credulous investors. It bought him some class that they
00:23:06 ◼ ► could invest. They were investing in the confidence and savvy of Jeffrey Katzenberg and he had a plan
00:23:11 ◼ ► and that they didn't understand mobile video or anything that the kids are into, but surely
00:23:17 ◼ ► Jeffrey Katzenberg understands it. And so we're going to invest in him and he's going to figure
00:23:21 ◼ ► this thing out. And I think that, that you could look at it and say, this is essentially,
00:23:27 ◼ ► you know, it's a bad idea by people who didn't really get how people use mobile devices for
00:23:32 ◼ ► entertainment, um, who convinced other people who knew even less than them, that they had the
00:23:37 ◼ ► answers and everybody who knew better looked at it and said, there's no way this makes sense.
00:23:44 ◼ ► And they raised a lot of money and are now shutting down. And my, the only question I've
00:23:49 ◼ ► got is did they spend all that money or did, or did they get to the point where they realized
00:23:56 ◼ ► that they were, that they were not going to make it. And they were going to hand back what,
00:24:01 ◼ ► what portion of the money they hadn't spent in order to exit in order to not burn all of
00:24:06 ◼ ► their bridges with investors for the future. And that part, I don't know, because I don't
00:24:10 ◼ ► understand how they could have spent the billion plus dollars that they spent, but apparently,
00:24:26 ◼ ► those are all very nice restaurants, I'm sure. And, and the, yeah, it's, uh, it's Quibi. It
00:24:36 ◼ ► about Quibi at this point, but like the one thing that I'll say about it is it is actually quite
00:24:40 ◼ ► rare in technology for a hunch that you have to be proven right so fast. You know, I, I never
00:24:58 ◼ ► up into 10 minutes segments, people will want it more than anything else. When you can just
00:25:02 ◼ ► press pause whenever you want. Um, and also all of the content exists for free in other places,
00:25:10 ◼ ► you can get so much content for free. So it just never really made sense to me that this service
00:25:15 ◼ ► had to exist and everything that was a selling point about it just seemed to completely miss
00:25:25 ◼ ► put in their time and effort into making good content that you can consume in whatever way
00:25:29 ◼ ► suits you. They decided that they would focus in areas that didn't make sense. And you know,
00:25:35 ◼ ► we spoke about it and you know, I'm sure people can go back and we'll find times when we said,
00:25:43 ◼ ► Yeah. Well, I mean, credit to Quibi for failing fast, I guess, but, um, also worth mentioning,
00:25:50 ◼ ► Quibi's business model included getting around union restrictions by claiming that they were
00:25:57 ◼ ► doing shorts instead of like TV shows. And they were doing that by basically claiming that each
00:26:01 ◼ ► episode was a short instead of it being like an episode of a TV show, but it was all just kind of
00:26:08 ◼ ► just a hand waving to get away with not having to pay for stuff. And then secondly, the thing we
00:26:15 ◼ ► mentioned a while ago, which is this perception that they wanted big names. And so the big names
00:26:19 ◼ ► didn't really want to be on Quibi, but if their ideas had been rejected everywhere else, they
00:26:24 ◼ ► would go to Quibi and Quibi would pay for it, which meant you got a lot of second rate stuff
00:26:28 ◼ ► on Quibi. It was never seen as a place that you brought your good ideas. It was a place that you
00:26:33 ◼ ► cashed in your bad ideas that previously would have gone in a drawer. And instead Jeffrey
00:26:38 ◼ ► Katzenberg would write you a check. And so you'd say yes. And that was Quibi past tense.
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00:28:34 ◼ ► All right, Jason Snell. Let's talk a little bit about the iPad Air 4. So you have one of these for
00:28:42 ◼ ► review. I really liked the way that you positioned this review in a couple of areas. One was calling
00:28:50 ◼ ► saying almost pro, which I liked a lot. And then also talking about basically this being the
00:28:55 ◼ ► cheapest laptop that you can buy from Apple. So, but you know, to start off, I want to start off
00:29:01 ◼ ► with one of the main things that you began with in the review, which is basically talking about how
00:29:06 ◼ ► this product is almost too good and why that is an interesting thing to see in Apple's confidence,
00:29:14 ◼ ► right? Yeah. So the pro, I mean, we've talked about it here before. The idea is that they brought so
00:29:20 ◼ ► many iPad pro features down. This is basically an iPad pro, a slightly cheaper iPad pro and it's
00:29:27 ◼ ► good. Like it reminded me of all the things that we reacted to it back in 2018 when the iPad pro
00:29:35 ◼ ► sort of second design generation came out where the flat sides and the back and it's just, it's
00:29:41 ◼ ► so nice. It's such a nice design. I think this, you know, flat sides design has legs, Myke. I think
00:29:47 ◼ ► Apple should bring it to other products. Anyway, and then you throw in that it's the, one of the
00:29:55 ◼ ► features that they brought that they pro feature that they brought to it is it's the size of the
00:30:00 ◼ ► 11 inch pro. So it fits the magic keyboard and you throw that in there and yes, it's true. The magic
00:30:06 ◼ ► keyboard is not cheap. It's a very large percentage of the price of the iPad air, but at the base
00:30:14 ◼ ► model of the iPad air, you can now get that in a magic keyboard for 898, which is makes it a
00:30:19 ◼ ► hundred dollars on one dollars cheaper than the cheapest Mac laptop. So I guess this is Apple's
00:30:25 ◼ ► low end laptop sort of right now, lowest end laptop. And then of course you could also buy
00:30:31 ◼ ► a totally different keyboard. You could buy the logitech case there. You know, you, there are lots
00:30:34 ◼ ► of other things you could do to make this into a laptop ish thing for cheaper than that, of course,
00:30:39 ◼ ► but the magic keyboard is the most laptop II, I think of all of the options. So a really interesting
00:30:46 ◼ ► product again, half interesting for what it is because what it is really is sort of a light
00:30:51 ◼ ► version of that iPad pro from 2018. But the other half of it is, you know, what it implies about the
00:30:58 ◼ ► rest of the iPad line, because like, it's so clear, this is so close to the iPad pro. It doesn't make
00:31:07 ◼ ► sense unless the iPad pro is about to become something different. The only place where that
00:31:13 ◼ ► the, cause I love that, like the laptop analogy. Cause I'll just say like the magic keyboard is
00:31:17 ◼ ► amazing. It's probably the best accessory Apple's ever made. Like what it does to the iPad, like
00:31:24 ◼ ► completely changes the product, makes it something else. It really is fantastic, beautifully designed,
00:31:29 ◼ ► so well made. I absolutely love the magic keyboard, the one with the trackpad for the iPad.
00:31:34 ◼ ► But the only place where the analogy of like the cheapest laptop kind of falls down for me is the
00:31:40 ◼ ► storage, which is where the iPad air falls down for me in general. So, you know, like the iPad,
00:31:47 ◼ ► the MacBook air starts at 999 for 256 gigabytes of storage, where the iPad air starts at 64,
00:31:55 ◼ ► which I think is really bad. For an iPad, 64 gigabytes is not enough. This thing should be,
00:32:03 ◼ ► I mean, cause especially when you have to jump up to 256, this should be starting at 128. I know that
00:32:10 ◼ ► it is a trend, it is maybe an annoying trope of Apple focused tech podcasters to complain about
00:32:17 ◼ ► based storage options. But I think that this product with how good it is, it's, you know,
00:32:23 ◼ ► it's so close to a no brainer for me, for people, except for that 64 gigabytes, because
00:32:29 ◼ ► you jump up one more level and then the price difference becomes even closer between that and
00:32:40 ◼ ► it's $150 less than the iPad pro. So you're big, like, Oh, it's way cheaper is gone because then
00:32:53 ◼ ► or go up $50 and get the 128 pro, right? Yes, that is exactly what I would recommend people do.
00:32:58 ◼ ► I'd forgotten about that. Right. Because then you are getting the additional features this lacks,
00:33:08 ◼ ► started at 64, there's a question mark around it. But that's why it doesn't in a way. And I would
00:33:12 ◼ ► say, you know, I get the criticism. I've seen a lot in, we're going to talk about the iPhone
00:33:22 ◼ ► And I like that people are looking. I looked at my iPhone the other day about how much storage,
00:33:28 ◼ ► cause I have a large storage iPhone and I looked and I'm using none of it. I'm using none of it.
00:33:35 ◼ ► I am particularly sensitive to this, especially in my iPhone, because I store all my photos locally,
00:33:40 ◼ ► but I think on an iPad, I know that's not, that's not a common, that's not a common approach,
00:33:46 ◼ ► but that's not what I'm talking about here. Right? Like I'm ignoring that from the situation because
00:33:51 ◼ ► like, I know that I am an edge case there, but I have enough space on my phone to do it. But the
00:33:55 ◼ ► iPad, you know, it is in essence, in many ways, like the best type of consumption device. So
00:34:04 ◼ ► you're going to want to put movies on it, right? You're going to want to put video on it. Once you
00:34:08 ◼ ► start doing that, I mean, very quickly you've lost it. But I think that's only true. I think that's
00:34:14 ◼ ► only true if you don't have, if you're going someplace with movies that you're not going to
00:34:18 ◼ ► have an internet connection. Yep. Which, which if you travel a lot or traveled a lot in the
00:34:22 ◼ ► before time in May again in the future, yes, I hear you like having the inability to store
00:34:28 ◼ ► a handful of movies before you go on a long trip, it stinks. But that's the, I think that's the
00:34:34 ◼ ► decision that everybody is going to have to make. But I do think for a vast number of people, 64
00:34:39 ◼ ► in an iPad is fine because they're using the cloud and they're streaming and it doesn't matter.
00:34:44 ◼ ► But I do, I do agree with you when I think that 64 is becoming what, you know, 16 was and what 32
00:34:51 ◼ ► was like, it is becoming the thing where it's like, really should start at 128. And we've seen
00:34:55 ◼ ► Apple elsewhere make that decision. But you know, the story of the iPad Air fourth generation really
00:35:01 ◼ ► is that right. It is, it is the places that Apple chose to be brave and bring down iPad Pro features.
00:35:07 ◼ ► And it's the choices where Apple chose not to like, and I'm not, not like they're being cowardly,
00:35:12 ◼ ► but more that they're, they're still doing some differentiation. You know, Apple's, Apple's making
00:35:17 ◼ ► these decisions knowing what the next iPad Pro is and we don't. And so we only get half the story
00:35:23 ◼ ► here, but it's still interesting to look at the differences and the similarities and see what
00:35:28 ◼ ► their choices are. Cause they said storage, we're not going to do storage. We're going to keep
00:35:32 ◼ ► at 64 face ID. We're not going to do LIDAR. We're not going to do, but magic keyboard and, and,
00:35:50 ◼ ► we're going to pick up all of the body stuff from the iPad pros and we're, we're just going
00:35:55 ◼ ► to roll those in here. And like the Apple pencil two is so superior to the, the first one having
00:36:01 ◼ ► the, having the screen that doesn't have the home button on the front and the big top and bottom is
00:36:06 ◼ ► such a big deal. Like there's so many things about it that they have rolled in. And then there's some
00:36:10 ◼ ► that they've chosen not to like they chose not to do the, the, uh, uh, true depth sensor bar stuff,
00:36:17 ◼ ► right? It's just not there. There's a, instead they went to the trouble of engineering a new
00:36:32 ◼ ► my iPad pro. Cause I imagine if you were, if you are somebody who's using, uh, an iPad with
00:36:38 ◼ ► the magic keyboard, which I know you were, I can imagine it is more frequently highlighted to you,
00:36:45 ◼ ► how you have to reach up to touch it where if you're using the iPad in your hands a lot,
00:36:54 ◼ ► I, yes, it's true that if you're using it in a keyboard and you're touching the space bar
00:37:01 ◼ ► and then realizing that on the iPad pro, you just touch the space bar and you're in. Whereas on this,
00:37:09 ◼ ► which means that you should really not use that gesture. You should use the gesture where you
00:37:13 ◼ ► reach up and press and let go and let it scan your finger. And that's the gesture you should use on
00:37:20 ◼ ► this because, you know, and I I'm so trained by the iPad pro that I do the other gesture,
00:37:28 ◼ ► And also you're unlikely to have had the iPad pro before having this iPad. So that gesture is
00:37:33 ◼ ► not ingrained for you, right? So it's a different gesture, but it does remind me that it's the
00:37:37 ◼ ► gesture that we all used to use, which is you have to reach up and touch your device somewhere
00:37:43 ◼ ► in order to unlock it. And I've gotten away from that. And so, yeah, it's exacerbated by the
00:37:49 ◼ ► keyboard, but I use my iPads out of the keyboard far more than I use them in the keyboards. And
00:37:56 ◼ ► even then, like you have to adjust your grip or you have to keep, you have to find a grip that
00:38:03 ◼ ► keeps your finger on the home button. That's your other choice, right? But like, it's not terrible,
00:38:10 ◼ ► but like face ID is almost invisible. And I think you train yourself to just sort of forget that
00:38:19 ◼ ► it's even happening. Whereas with touch ID, it's more in your face. It's ironically, it's actually
00:38:25 ◼ ► in your finger. It's more, it's a task you have to perform to unlock your device. The beauty of
00:38:31 ◼ ► face ID when it works is that it's essentially invisible. You don't have to do anything. You may
00:38:36 ◼ ► be aware that you just authenticated, but you don't really have to do anything. You're just
00:38:40 ◼ ► looking at your device and it works. And that's, I find that that works more often than not,
00:38:45 ◼ ► a lot more often than not, but touch ID, I mean, it works. It's great. They did a good job. It's a
00:38:50 ◼ ► good feature. It's nice. I just, it's not as nice as face ID. And that's the story here, right? It's
00:38:57 ◼ ► like those sensors are apparently expensive. And that was a place that Apple chose to skimp
00:39:03 ◼ ► a little bit, but they did put in this nice touch ID. That's perfectly good. So if you're coming
00:39:08 ◼ ► from an iPad experience that doesn't have face ID, then it's not going to matter to you because it's
00:39:13 ◼ ► a nice implementation of touch ID. But I don't think it's as nice. I had forgotten just how
00:39:35 ◼ ► And I'm impressed at how small it is and how it makes this very compact kind of like a writing
00:39:43 ◼ ► machine. Like I'm very impressed. I always think about that. Like if I'm somebody who's a writer
00:39:48 ◼ ► and I need to work from place to place, which right now there's a lot less of that, right? But
00:39:52 ◼ ► having the smallest, a little thing that has all of my writing and gives me everything I need,
00:39:58 ◼ ► the smaller, the better. Made me think about the 11-inch MacBook Air, like that kind of thing.
00:40:03 ◼ ► The first keyboards that you could clip into the first small iPad Pro, right? I was thinking about
00:40:18 ◼ ► alphanumeric keys, I think is good. I was able to type perfectly fast on it. It was all of the
00:40:24 ◼ ► modifiers and especially like the plus minus keys that are all like fractional width. They're weird
00:40:32 ◼ ► widths. That took some getting used to. But you know, if that's your keyboard that you use all
00:40:38 ◼ ► the time, you'd get used to it. The problem is if you switch among keyboards, it's a really weird
00:40:43 ◼ ► keyboard layout because of that. But you know, in the grand scheme of things, I think they made the
00:40:47 ◼ ► right decision to shrink down the modifiers and not to shrink down the alphanumerics. The
00:40:51 ◼ ► alphanumerics felt good. - I use it all the time and I really like it. I think they did a great
00:40:57 ◼ ► job with that small keyboard. I think I use it more than the bigger one these days. - I, you know,
00:41:03 ◼ ► immediately I wrote my review on it, but I immediately then went back to my iPad Pro with
00:41:07 ◼ ► a big keyboard. I was like, oh, it's just because it's more comfortable and it also is a better
00:41:13 ◼ ► match for every other keyboard in my life. But I do think they did a good job. I don't disagree.
00:41:18 ◼ ► It's like the iPad Air itself, right? It's got some trade-offs in order to be what it is,
00:41:24 ◼ ► but what it is, you can see why they made them. And to have that smaller size is really nice.
00:41:40 ◼ ► - Well, it's twofold. First, if you're looking for, I think it's a product for people who don't
00:41:46 ◼ ► want to buy an iPad Pro fundamentally. I think that's what it is, is you look at the iPad Pro
00:42:02 ◼ ► no, not going to buy an $800 iPad. Well, now your choice is a little more stark at the low end,
00:42:09 ◼ ► where you've got the iPad iPad that has the home button on the front and stuff like that.
00:42:14 ◼ ► And then you've got this thing, which is more modern than that. It's got the iPad Pro look,
00:42:21 ◼ ► it's got the modern Apple Pencil, it's got the A14. And I think it is going to appeal to people
00:42:31 ◼ ► who look at those two iPads and say, oh, I want the nice one. But that person is not going to buy
00:42:37 ◼ ► an $800 iPad. They're just not. And so I think that is how Apple has positioned this. I think
00:42:43 ◼ ► hovering all over this is what happens to the iPad Pro, because I've definitely had people say, well,
00:42:49 ◼ ► should I buy an 11-inch iPad Pro or should I buy this? It's like, I don't know how to answer that
00:42:53 ◼ ► question. Because the 11-inch iPad Pro is, if you're buying any amount of storage, you're now
00:42:59 ◼ ► not very far away from the iPad Pro with this thing. So unless you're buying the base model,
00:43:10 ◼ ► two-year-old technology that is very clearly going to be replaced. And so for people like that,
00:43:16 ◼ ► I would say, do you need to buy an iPad right now? Because if you don't, you might want to wait and
00:43:21 ◼ ► see what Apple does with the iPad Pro. And then it'll, I suspect, be much clearer about what your
00:43:27 ◼ ► choices are. And the reason it's hazy right now is because one of them is about to leave us and
00:43:32 ◼ ► be replaced by something different. But in the meantime, they're kind of in the ballpark.
00:43:44 ◼ ► because it's an A14. And in multi-core, the iPad Pro is a little bit faster, because it's
00:43:49 ◼ ► got more cores, even though it's an A12Z. So it's close, though. Yeah, right. So I mean,
00:43:57 ◼ ► that's what it comes back to, is if you're somebody who is shopping for a high-end iPad,
00:44:02 ◼ ► you might want to wait, because there are going to be new high-end iPads soon, I suspect,
00:44:10 ◼ ► If you're somebody who doesn't really care about that, then the iPad Air is a great choice,
00:44:15 ◼ ► because it's got most of the features of the iPad Pro. And it's going to be cheaper. And let me tell
00:44:21 ◼ ► you, nothing, looking at the space between the iPad Pro and the iPad Air, has convinced me that
00:44:30 ◼ ► the next iPad Pros are going to be more expensive. I was just about to ask you this question.
00:44:45 ◼ ► $899? I mean, who knows? Apple does all sorts of things. But if I had to put down money,
00:44:52 ◼ ► I would say that the iPad Pro base price of the cheapest new iPad Pro, maybe they'll sell an old
00:44:59 ◼ ► model or whatever for a while. They do that sometimes. But the new ones that have all of the
00:45:03 ◼ ► new hot stuff for 2021, they're not going to start at $799. Not with the iPad Air here. I just don't
00:45:10 ◼ ► see it. So I think what's going to happen... It's probably one of the reasons that they made
00:45:14 ◼ ► that iPad Air for as good as it is, right? Exactly. I think that's exactly it. The iPad Air
00:45:20 ◼ ► looks strangely close to the 11 Pro, but it won't look close to whatever the next iPad Pro is.
00:45:28 ◼ ► Especially because the rumors are suggesting that the next iPad Pros will be potentially the debut
00:45:35 ◼ ► of new screen technology, right? I think it's micro-LED? And as we've just seen with the iPhones,
00:45:43 ◼ ► screen technology improvements increase the costs, right? So OLED in the 12 has made it more
00:45:50 ◼ ► expensive than the 11 that it replaces. Because, I mean, especially when these things are all screens,
00:45:56 ◼ ► I'm sure that there is a lot of the cost. And so I could imagine that. And if they do go for a new
00:46:03 ◼ ► screen... Because look, we've got to assume... We would just assume that the next iPad Pro is going
00:46:10 ◼ ► to be some big leaps in some places. Because otherwise this iPad Air 4 is just stepping all
00:46:16 ◼ ► over a more expensive product. Well, that's it. We just had a comment in the Discord that basically
00:46:20 ◼ ► said, "Well, why... There's so much power in the iPad Pro now, essentially. Why do you believe
00:46:26 ◼ ► there's a new iPad Pro coming?" And my answer is, "Why does the iPad Air exist otherwise?"
00:46:30 ◼ ► All of the signs point to there being another shoe to drop. And to your point, you just have
00:46:37 ◼ ► to go back to the iPhone 10 or in fact the iPhone 12 this year to see that bringing in a new nice
00:46:43 ◼ ► screen technology is often the point at which Apple says, "Well, the prices have to go up now."
00:46:48 ◼ ► Right? Like OLED did that. And if they have this micro LED that allows them to do a true HDR
00:47:03 ◼ ► >> Because as well, you just got to look at the earnings, right? The iPad was struggling for a
00:47:09 ◼ ► long time. Then the iPad Pro came around and then the more they did on the iPad Pro, the more money
00:47:13 ◼ ► the iPad line made. I think Apple was aware that the iPad Pro is an area where they can do some
00:47:19 ◼ ► wild stuff and people will pay the money for it. Because the people that really want it, they want
00:47:24 ◼ ► it. And I think that that has proven out. The average revenue per user or whatever they call it,
00:47:31 ◼ ► the margins and stuff are good on the iPad Pro line, especially because of all the accessories.
00:47:42 ◼ ► We're going to talk about the new iPhones, but I wanted to give a little bit of follow-up because
00:47:48 ◼ ► we said we'd talk about this. I went to a store to buy an iPhone. So we pre-ordered an iPhone for
00:47:56 ◼ ► Adina. She went up to the 12 Pro in Pacific Blue and we wanted to do an in-store pickup just to see
00:48:05 ◼ ► what that whole situation was like. So my overall review of picking up an iPhone from Apple's Regent
00:48:12 ◼ ► Street store, which is one of the flagship stores in the world, not London's biggest store,
00:48:17 ◼ ► that's Covent Garden, but I believe Regent, my favorite fact, I don't think it's true anymore,
00:48:22 ◼ ► but at a point the Regent Street Apple Store in London made more money per square foot than any
00:48:27 ◼ ► other Apple store in the world and it's a big store. So my kind of overall review of this is
00:48:34 ◼ ► it was fine. It took a long time. We had a pickup window of 12 to 12.15. We got there at 5 to 12 and
00:48:43 ◼ ► they were like, "Please come back at 12.15 because with the lines." And effectively, they just had
00:48:50 ◼ ► lots of lines across lots of sidewalks. So they really extended it out. They had all these stickers
00:48:57 ◼ ► on the ground to keep people two meters apart or whatever. And they also, you know you've got those
00:49:03 ◼ ► kinds of barriers that have what looks like a seat belt that goes in between them? You know what I'm
00:49:07 ◼ ► talking about? Those kind of like you put the barrier out and then there's like a rope, looks
00:49:11 ◼ ► like a seat belt. They positioned those to also be two meters apart. So just stand at the next post
00:49:17 ◼ ► kind of thing which I thought was quite clever. They had like basically lots of little holding
00:49:23 ◼ ► areas. So you would get there and say, "Okay, get in this line." And then you'd walk through this line.
00:49:27 ◼ ► Then you would get to a security person who was monitoring with somebody else who was doing
00:49:33 ◼ ► another line down the street which was the actual line that you wanted to be in, right?
00:49:37 ◼ ► So you'd go through this little line. They'd do their check-in thing, you know? That's like,
00:49:41 ◼ ► "Wanna make sure that you're in your window and all that?" They then send you to the main line
00:49:45 ◼ ► which actually snaked around the store. We was in that line for like 15-20 minutes. I got to the front
00:49:50 ◼ ► of the store line basically and then a guy said, "Hey, have you paid for this already?" I said, "Yes."
00:49:55 ◼ ► They said, "Do you want me to just bring it out to you in the street?" And I was like, "Yes, I do." So that
00:50:00 ◼ ► was what I did. So they just went in. They had a runner go in and then they brought the... I never even
00:50:04 ◼ ► went into the store. That was my experience with the watch band as well because it makes
00:50:08 ◼ ► sense, right? Like, why have more people in the store physically inside if you don't have to?
00:50:15 ◼ ► They did temperature checks. I had to read this thing to say I had no... Everyone in the line
00:50:21 ◼ ► had to wear masks or Apple would provide one. I would say that the staff was super conscious,
00:50:27 ◼ ► I thought, of making sure that people were safe. I really felt like they were paying a lot of
00:50:32 ◼ ► attention and were going above and beyond to try and expedite stuff. So it was a long process, but
00:50:40 ◼ ► I was fine with it. I'm gonna do it again for the Pro Max. I'll do it again. Because it was like,
00:50:45 ◼ ► you know, I liked the idea that if I've already paid for it, I don't want to... I don't need to go
00:50:52 ◼ ► in the store, right? You can just bring it out. They got it in the bag, put it in my bag, and I go.
00:50:57 ◼ ► And I guess you might be somebody who's like, "Well, I really want to shop for a case," or whatever.
00:51:01 ◼ ► But, you know, there are a lot of us... This is what happened with my watch band. It's like, "No, I just
00:51:04 ◼ ► want it. Just give it to me. I'll walk away." And I'm like, "Great. Here it is. Goodbye. And thank
00:51:10 ◼ ► you." That was... Yeah, very orderly. Not... Because it was interesting, right? I had a lot
00:51:16 ◼ ► of people say to me, I mentioned it, "Oh, no. This was better than when I go shop for groceries."
00:51:22 ◼ ► But like a million miles because in the grocery store, no one's doing anything, right? Everyone's
00:51:28 ◼ ► walking past each other all the time. You line up to go in, but once you're in, it's a free-for-all,
00:51:34 ◼ ► right? Or any store, really. Like, this was the best shopping experience I have had so far.
00:51:40 ◼ ► I found out... So, the liquor chain here, BevMo, when in the early days of the pandemic, they
00:51:50 ◼ ► started this thing where you could just order online, and they would basically... They were
00:51:54 ◼ ► in the store, and they would fill your order in the store, and you would show up, and you pay
00:51:59 ◼ ► online, and you'd show up, and they'd basically roll a shopping cart out and say, "Here."
00:52:03 ◼ ► And so, I bought beer that way. And I went in recently, and I actually went into the store,
00:52:09 ◼ ► and I thought to myself, "I think I might prefer... As long as there's offering to fill a shopping
00:52:16 ◼ ► cart with what I want and roll it out to me, I think I might prefer that. I think I might
00:52:22 ◼ ► actually like that approach rather than going into a store where people are randomly walking around,
00:52:27 ◼ ► and I'm wearing a mask, and I'm feeling kind of tense." So, I'm glad you had this experience. I
00:52:33 ◼ ► think it shows that Apple is trying to find ways that make sense to distribute these products in
00:52:40 ◼ ► this way, which is good. - Because I really thought, like, this is the stress test, right?
00:52:46 ◼ ► They haven't had to do this yet. Apple... Like, iPhone day. And I felt like they managed it
00:52:55 ◼ ► about as well as I could have imagined they could have managed it. So, I was happy with
00:53:00 ◼ ► the experience overall. Like, it was frustrating because we were there for a long time, I felt like,
00:53:06 ◼ ► but it was... But that was just kind of like, "Oh, I wish they would hurry up," but not so much in
00:53:11 ◼ ► that, like, I'm like, "Oh, how dare you," you know? - I have a funny story about... On iPhone day,
00:53:16 ◼ ► on Friday, I was running just in my neighborhood. I do... I did a couch-to-5K program, and now I run
00:53:24 ◼ ► three times-ish or a week, a couple of miles. And so, I'm out on iPhone day, and I'm running
00:53:29 ◼ ► through my neighborhood, and there are two delivery vans. There's a UPS van, and there's a white,
00:53:35 ◼ ► unmarked contractor delivery van that's clearly rented. And I think to myself, "Oh, iPhone day."
00:53:42 ◼ ► - Full of iPhones, yep. - And let me tell you, what was really funny about it is I am a very slow
00:53:49 ◼ ► runner, but I was able to spot these vans and ultimately surpass them because they kept stopping.
00:54:00 ◼ ► Like, they'd go down, like, 50 feet, and then they'd stop and then get out and deliver a thing,
00:54:05 ◼ ► because they were loaded down, I think, with iPhones. And so, I had that moment where I ran
00:54:10 ◼ ► past the UPS truck, and the guy was in the back getting something out, because I was going to
00:54:14 ◼ ► shout. I really was going to do it. I was like, "Happy iPhone day!" But then I ran past them,
00:54:20 ◼ ► and it just was a funny moment, because I got to watch, while I was slowly catching up to them,
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00:56:55 ◼ ► and all of Relay FM. So Jason Snell, iPhone 12 and iPhone 12 Pro time. What phones do you have,
00:57:03 ◼ ► and how long have you had them? - I have the iPhone 12 and the iPhone 12 Pro. - What colors? - I have
00:57:09 ◼ ► a black iPhone 12 and a graphite iPhone 12 Pro. I have had them since Tuesday, which is when those
00:57:20 ◼ ► embargo reviews dropped, because if you're not in the embargo set, but you're in the next set
00:57:25 ◼ ► of reviewers, you can tell when the embargoes are going to drop, because that's after that is when
00:57:32 ◼ ► they send you the phones. Yeah, exactly. So I've got those and I've been using them since Tuesday,
00:57:37 ◼ ► or primarily since Wednesday, since Wednesday was when my iPad Air review dropped. So I had
00:57:43 ◼ ► to finish that up. But yeah, so I've had them for a little while, almost a week. - Is there one that
00:57:50 ◼ ► you've been using more than another? Or do you kind of split it nicely? - Yes, I decided to put
00:57:58 ◼ ► my SIM and connect my Apple Watch to the 12. - Okay. Why? - And that was because I got them out of the
00:58:10 ◼ ► box and I spent, you know, a few hours looking at them and holding them, and I thought to myself,
00:58:16 ◼ ► "I like the iPhone 12 better. I'm going to put my thing on the iPhone 12 and carry that around,
00:58:23 ◼ ► because it seems really nice." And also, you know, the iPhone 12 Pro is pretty much a match for my
00:58:30 ◼ ► iPhone 11 Pro, and so I thought, "Let's experience what life is like on the iPhone 12 instead."
00:58:35 ◼ ► - I will say, color-wise, I think you really got the short straw with the Pro. I mean, I saw all
00:58:41 ◼ ► four just through a window. I really don't like the color of the graphite. I think it's, like,
00:58:45 ◼ ► muddy. It's a very strange color to me. - It's, I mean, I'm surprised they're not calling it space
00:58:53 ◼ ► gray. But yes, it's just, it's boring gray. It is the most boring, like, I don't know how to say this.
00:59:08 ◼ ► Apple somehow has managed to create the most boring iPhone, and it's this graphite iPhone 12
00:59:17 ◼ ► Pro. It's just dull. If dull is your thing, then this is the phone for you. But I know,
00:59:23 ◼ ► I know, I see why they talked up the gold and the glam of the gold, because the gold is supposedly,
00:59:29 ◼ ► you know, super shiny and awesome and gorgeous. And I have this, you know, kind of silvery gray,
00:59:36 ◼ ► boring iPhone. But yeah, it's boring. It's fine if you put it in a case or if you're somebody who
00:59:43 ◼ ► doesn't want any kind of personality on the device that you're using, then it's gonna be fine for you.
00:59:48 ◼ ► But I just looked at it and I was like, "Oh boy, this is my..." You know, we've gone on about a year.
00:59:53 ◼ ► - Because the black, I mean, you would assume black is simple and boring, but the black that
00:59:58 ◼ ► they chose for the 12 and the way it's presented, I think it looks really great, right? Like,
01:00:07 ◼ ► one of the things that made me laugh is I picked it up, I picked up the iPhone 12 backward
01:00:10 ◼ ► and the Apple logo was like reflecting a light source. So as my hand moved up, it glinted and
01:00:18 ◼ ► the Apple logo shined and I thought, "Oh no, did my phone reboot?" And I realized, "Oh no,
01:00:25 ◼ ► I'm looking at the back of the phone." But it reminds me of the front of the phone because it's
01:00:30 ◼ ► just this deep shiny black, just like an off iPhone screen would be. And then the metal border around
01:00:36 ◼ ► it is this matte, the aluminum anodized black. It's this matte finish. It reminds me of the black
01:00:45 ◼ ► iPhone 5, which when that came out, I remember being like so impressed with how it looked.
01:00:58 ◼ ► that. I had one, I loved it. It might've gotten dinged up a little bit. I didn't care. I thought
01:01:02 ◼ ► that it still looked cool, but it was the first like, "This is the all black iPhone." And it
01:01:08 ◼ ► looks so good. And this one looks like that. So I love it. I would not pick black. I think I want to
01:01:16 ◼ ► see the colors more because I think I would pick the blue, but let me tell you the black iPhone 12,
01:01:21 ◼ ► it's gorgeous. And you would think it would be boring, but it's not. It's the graphite 12 Pro
01:01:37 ◼ ► as much as I like the midnight green, where it's like, "This is different. I like the way
01:01:43 ◼ ► that this looks." And it's got a... I'm trying to pick the words here because I'm not trying to say
01:01:56 ◼ ► that if you pick another color, this isn't you. But the midnight green and the Pacific blue both
01:02:01 ◼ ► have this kind of like adult fashion forward feel to them, where they are not big, bright and bold
01:02:08 ◼ ► colors, but they are colors. And they go a lot more with other clothing because they're more dull
01:02:15 ◼ ► and you only really catch the color in certain lights. So I think that that blue is really nice.
01:02:20 ◼ ► Adina has a plum case and it looks excellent. So I think with some of these, with the midnight green
01:02:25 ◼ ► and the Pacific blue, more than any other iPhone, you can really make it look good with a case,
01:02:30 ◼ ► in my opinion, where you just see the little pops of color come through because they are...
01:02:52 ◼ ► I've seen images of it. I've seen it, again, through a window. I just think it looks super
01:02:57 ◼ ► good. I'm very into that. But I also do... I really like the blue. If the gold didn't exist,
01:03:03 ◼ ► or if the gold was more like a regular gold, blue is what I would have gone with because I was such
01:03:09 ◼ ► a fan of the midnight green. And I think that the Pacific blue is the blue, what the midnight green
01:03:14 ◼ ► was the green. They are very different to the colors that are on the 12, but I think Apple
01:03:19 ◼ ► chose a very, very good overall look for that. And I think that the rails and the back, they match
01:03:26 ◼ ► really nicely, where maybe on some of the other phones, there is a mismatch to it, good and bad.
01:03:32 ◼ ► I think the gold, for example, the gold rails, the stainless steel rail is way more gold than
01:03:39 ◼ ► the back. But on the blue, they match it very well, actually. And again, similarly to the green,
01:03:45 ◼ ► the stainless steel green that goes around the green 11 Pro matches very nicely. So I think that
01:03:54 ◼ ► the blue is a good call for people that go for it. I've seen people enjoy the silver, and I
01:04:00 ◼ ► completely understand why because it's like any other silver iPhone. I used to be a white and
01:04:05 ◼ ► silver iPhone person for a long time as well. But yeah, I think the blue is a good call.
01:04:10 ◼ ► - And fundamentally, it's a personal choice. I think what's interesting now is that if you like
01:04:15 ◼ ► those kinds of muted colors or not colors, then the Pro is your choice. And if you prefer something
01:04:21 ◼ ► that is a little more eye-popping, then the non-Pro is your choice, which is, I could make
01:04:28 ◼ ► the argument a little unfortunate because you're basically, if you have an aesthetic preference
01:04:33 ◼ ► and a tech spec preference for something like the camera, you have to choose between them.
01:04:39 ◼ ► - Yeah. - I get why Apple wants consistency here. I am, and it's already clear, I am firmly
01:04:48 ◼ ► aesthetically on the side of the iPhone 12. And muted colors, if you're into that, if you want it
01:04:58 ◼ ► to be there or somebody just in the Discord just said, it doesn't shout, "I have a new iPhone,"
01:05:08 ◼ ► people aren't gonna notice anyway, and so it doesn't matter at all what the color of your
01:05:11 ◼ ► phone is because it's hidden in a case. That all said, I find it boring. I find it boring,
01:05:19 ◼ ► and I find Apple's reluctance to put any color or any appreciable color. I know last year there was
01:05:25 ◼ ► the green, now there's the blue, but it's like the subtlest. It's a dark grayish green or blue.
01:05:36 ◼ ► It's super subtle and muted, and this is Apple's belief, apparently, is that a professional product
01:05:42 ◼ ► shouldn't have color. And if it does have color, it should just have a very, very light touch of it.
01:05:46 ◼ ► That's a take. I don't agree, and I think they're kind of boring, and I think the iPhone 12s look
01:05:53 ◼ ► great. And honestly, the stainless steel, so it's shiny, and it's an enormous fingerprint magnet.
01:06:02 ◼ ► It's super gross, and the anodized aluminum on the 12 is matte and holds out against fingerprints
01:06:13 ◼ ► incredibly well. Looks better, I think. The back of the 12 is shiny, which means it's a fingerprint
01:06:19 ◼ ► magnet there, and it's matte on the back of the 12 Pro, so you can't see the fingerprints so much
01:06:27 ◼ ► on the back of the 12 Pro. However, I think the shiny 12 back is more grippy, because your
01:06:33 ◼ ► finger is just kind of like your fingertips just kind of hold on. And here's the funny thing about
01:06:38 ◼ ► my phone, I'm never looking at the back. I'm looking at the sides and the front. I very rarely
01:06:43 ◼ ► look at the back, and when I look at the back and I see fingerprints, I just kind of wipe it off on
01:06:47 ◼ ► my shirt or my pants, and then I move on with my life. I have been using a caseless, by the way.
01:06:52 ◼ ► I haven't used a phone caseless since the 6 came out and was a bar of soap, and I'm loving that,
01:06:58 ◼ ► too. Are you using it caseless because you feel like you can, or is it because you want to? Yes,
01:07:03 ◼ ► because both, both. Because I feel like I can, again, because it feels a little more comfortable
01:07:09 ◼ ► in my hand and less slippy, and because I do prefer it. I prefer seeing it without a case,
01:07:14 ◼ ► and I prefer the weight without a case and the size without a case. That's another thing, by the way.
01:07:19 ◼ ► The 12 Pro is surprisingly noticeably heavier than the 12. It is a heavier phone. So, you know,
01:07:28 ◼ ► so much of this is just personal preference, and it's your personal style choice and aesthetics,
01:07:38 ◼ ► and liked the 12 better. I have come to a conclusion, personally, about the fingerprints
01:07:46 ◼ ► on the sides, because this seems to be something that everyone's talking about right now.
01:07:50 ◼ ► I mean, the 11 Pro is the same, right? There's fingerprints all over the sides of my phone,
01:07:56 ◼ ► because it's still stainless steel. People are maybe noticing it more because it's flat right
01:08:01 ◼ ► now, but like, honestly, this will not be a thing that I or anybody cares about after like two weeks
01:08:06 ◼ ► of owning the phone. Like, yeah, if you're taking a bunch of glamour shots for your phone, of your
01:08:10 ◼ ► phone to put online, you will see the fingerprints. So, I have two responses to that. One is the curved
01:08:18 ◼ ► edge of the previous model hides the fingerprints better. Maybe. Because the light bends around it,
01:08:27 ◼ ► and so you have inconsistent light around it. And second, I've never been tempted to carry my
01:08:33 ◼ ► iPhone 11 Pro without a case. Right, you see, but I have been caseless on my 11 Pro for months now.
01:08:39 ◼ ► So, like, you know, I can look at the side of my phone right now and I can see it's covered
01:08:43 ◼ ► in fingerprints, but I kind of don't care about it, really. All right. We had a question from
01:08:51 ◼ ► Malis in the Discord, one for each of us. Jason, is the millimeter wave window as ugly in person
01:09:09 ◼ ► It's different in the different models, right? Like, on my iPhone 12 Pro, it's this fairly light...
01:09:16 ◼ ► The stainless steel is this fairly light material, and then the millimeter wave cutout is black.
01:09:31 ◼ ► you know, it is not a perfect match for the aluminum, but it's also matte and it's also
01:09:43 ◼ ► black or a very, very dark gray and essentially is a match with the wake/sleep button. Right.
01:09:51 ◼ ► So, aesthetically, I'd say it's fine. On the 12 and on the 12 Pro, I would say aesthetically it is
01:09:59 ◼ ► less attractive. Okay, that makes sense because of the mismatching material, right? Yeah,
01:10:03 ◼ ► and probably every color has a different story to tell there and I don't know because I only
01:10:07 ◼ ► have the two. I've seen pictures and some of them are better than others. Yeah. And Molly's also
01:10:12 ◼ ► asked about, for me in the European Union, the regulatory markings. So, there's like these little
01:10:17 ◼ ► etched regulatory markings on the side. I don't think you'd see them unless you're looking for
01:10:22 ◼ ► them. You can see them if you want to look at them, but like I barely noticed them. I can see
01:10:26 ◼ ► them on Adina's phone because, you know, it's like there they are, but it would not bother me,
01:10:31 ◼ ► personally. What else have we got? I want to jump ahead real quick because we were talking about
01:10:40 ◼ ► comparing these two. There's a lot more to get into, which we will, but there's kind of like
01:10:46 ◼ ► a concluding line that I've been thinking about that I wanted to share with you now, kind of like
01:10:50 ◼ ► how I have interpreted what the reviews that I've seen and from my own usage of the 12 Pro.
01:10:55 ◼ ► These two phones, depending on where you're coming from, there might not be a lot of enhancement for
01:11:04 ◼ ► you. Like if you're coming from the 11 to the 12, you're making a nice jump, right? Or, you know,
01:11:08 ◼ ► because you've got the OLED screen and all that kind of stuff and the new size and new design.
01:11:13 ◼ ► If you're coming from the 11 Pro, it's new design and some small tweaks here and there, right?
01:11:22 ◼ ► This feels like these two phones are the baseline for the reviews of this generation because the
01:11:28 ◼ ► Mini and the Max, that's where the excitement is, right? Because these two phones have different
01:11:34 ◼ ► things. The Mini, who knows what that's going to be like, right? No one has any idea at the moment
01:11:40 ◼ ► how it is going to feel to use an iPhone X size design phone in that size. It could be fantastic
01:11:47 ◼ ► or terrible and I bet it is both depending on your own personal opinions, right? I'm really excited to
01:11:52 ◼ ► see the reviews of that phone because it's going to be all over the map. And then the Max, what is
01:11:58 ◼ ► that camera going to be like, right? Like there is a lot of expectation placed on that because that is
01:12:03 ◼ ► super interesting. It could be a mammoth leap, right? Because of the stuff they're doing with
01:12:10 ◼ ► the sensor. So these are the two poles where the reviews are going to get, I think, really interesting.
01:12:17 ◼ ► And so it's kind of funny that we have a baseline now. All of the phones have these features and
01:12:23 ◼ ► we're going to talk about them and that is your typical year-over-year improvement to the iPhone.
01:12:29 ◼ ► But then on the ends, which are coming in a few weeks time, this is where we're going to start to
01:12:34 ◼ ► see the not normal year-over-year improvement. What we have in the 12 and the 12 Pro, more in the 12
01:12:43 ◼ ► Pro really is an S model phone, right? Because as I said, the 12 from the 11, that's really interesting
01:12:50 ◼ ► as an upgrade. But the 11 Pro to the 12 Pro, I mean, in the sense of you get an OLED screen,
01:13:00 ◼ ► - I guess my complaint about what you're saying, I get what you're saying in the sense that we've
01:13:06 ◼ ► seen the mainstream, but not the edges. And the edges are more interesting because they have some
01:13:14 ◼ ► real differences. Whereas these two mainstream phones are now almost exactly the same, right?
01:13:20 ◼ ► They use the same cases. They're the same size, even if their weight is slightly different and one
01:13:30 ◼ ► differences. But that's the beauty of having these opposite styles on these two models is
01:13:34 ◼ ► they're essentially the same phone. So choose what style you like and how much you want to pay.
01:13:45 ◼ ► from an industrial design standpoint that this is the biggest change in the iPhone in many years,
01:13:54 ◼ ► in like six years. - The design is where my analogy falls apart there. So if we take that
01:14:01 ◼ ► part out where I said about the S line, what I'm really trying to say is it's like these two phones
01:14:07 ◼ ► have set the baseline for all four. And then from there, there's some differences, right? But these
01:14:14 ◼ ► two phones are like, this is the iPhone 12 line this year. All of them have this stuff. And then
01:14:20 ◼ ► on the mini and the max, we're gonna start to see things that are maybe more polarizing, more
01:14:25 ◼ ► interesting. But I agree with you that like a design change is always a good thing. It's
01:14:37 ◼ ► But this is like a design change, which is really great and is wanted. - Yeah. Well, it's funny too,
01:14:45 ◼ ► because in my review, which is not finished yet, I talk about how there have been these eras of
01:14:51 ◼ ► iPhone design and there's like the early era, there's the original iPhone and then the 3G,
01:14:55 ◼ ► 3GS, and then there's the like four and five era where they had the flat sides. And then there's
01:15:01 ◼ ► the six through last year era, six years of that. But this is a new era, but it's also going back
01:15:12 ◼ ► to that four and five era, right? Like these are recognizably the same phone as the iPhone
01:15:18 ◼ ► four and five. They really are. The design is very much the same. And so it's kind of a reversion,
01:15:26 ◼ ► but I love that design and I think it was the best iPhone design. So I'm very happy that it's back.
01:15:29 ◼ ► - I'm in camp five, by the way. I know like a lot of people talk about the four as the best design.
01:15:34 ◼ ► I am definitely in like five and five S is my favorite. - Well, the five is better, but maybe
01:15:44 ◼ ► but it was still the same design language as the four. It was just a taller phone and yeah,
01:15:49 ◼ ► so it was better, but you kind of need to credit the four because the four is where it came in.
01:15:52 ◼ ► But I agree with you about the edge cases. I think it will be interesting to see those reviews.
01:16:01 ◼ ► However, I will say that my bet is that they won't be as interesting as you might think
01:16:11 ◼ ► yep, this is an iPhone 12, but it's kind of small. It's smaller than you think. And so for most
01:16:17 ◼ ► people, you should probably get the 12 and not the mini, which will be true because I think the 12 is
01:16:22 ◼ ► the mainstream model and the mini is kind of an outlier model, but that'll be how those reviews
01:16:26 ◼ ► go. And the max reviews will be like, you know, the camera, yeah, the camera's better, but it's
01:16:31 ◼ ► not as it's not dramatically better. You know, it's a little bit better than on the 12 Pro. So
01:16:38 ◼ ► you could, you know, I just that's my bet is that I don't think that these are going to be revelatory
01:16:44 ◼ ► because I think Apple would have said if they were, I think they're going to be incremental,
01:16:48 ◼ ► you know, the difference being that they're incremental within the same release year instead
01:16:51 ◼ ► of what Apple usually does, which is make those increments from year to year. But that's just my
01:16:57 ◼ ► guess is that these will be, you know, I'm still interested to see them because I think that both
01:17:02 ◼ ► of these phones are fascinating. I think the reaction to the mini is especially going to be
01:17:06 ◼ ► fascinating, but it wouldn't surprise me if the reviews are not quite as interesting as you might
01:17:11 ◼ ► hope they are. But do you see the things that you just said? That's really interesting to me.
01:17:15 ◼ ► Okay. Like even that, because like just people saying the mini is not as great as you might
01:17:21 ◼ ► think it is, it's too small of a knife. I find that like fascinating. Well, we'll see. That's
01:17:25 ◼ ► just my guess. That's my prediction. I've never held one in my hand, but that's my prediction is
01:17:29 ◼ ► that that's what those articles are going to ultimately say is that because they're going
01:17:32 ◼ ► to be written by tech reviewers who've used all the products and they're going to look at the
01:17:35 ◼ ► small phone and be like, yeah, it's nice that it's small, but it's too small. And then there'll be
01:17:42 ◼ ► people who'll be like, how dare you say it's too small tech reviewer. You just don't understand.
01:17:46 ◼ ► I mean, we know how the internet works, right? But I do think it will find a, it will find
01:17:50 ◼ ► a loyal following. And then on the, on the, on the high end with the Pro Max, I was looking at the,
01:17:57 ◼ ► uh, the Austin Mann review of the iPhone 12 Pro camera, which is great and people should check it
01:18:03 ◼ ► out. Um, but what I found interesting is he makes these beautiful images and he shows like off some
01:18:10 ◼ ► of the great features that have been updated, including some of the night mode stuff. But then
01:18:15 ◼ ► there are other features that Apple's like, oh, there's going to be more, um, there's new optics.
01:18:20 ◼ ► There's more detail around the edges of the camera. And he has a one line kind of dismissal of that
01:18:25 ◼ ► where he's like, yeah, not so yeah, maybe, but not so you'd notice. Like, he's just like, well,
01:18:29 ◼ ► that's not so some of the Apple's features. He's like, yes, Apple did this and other features he
01:18:32 ◼ ► kind of shrugs at. And I just, I was thinking about the Pro Max and thinking he might lose his
01:18:39 ◼ ► mind over the different sensor and the image stabilization and the Pro Max. But you know,
01:18:45 ◼ ► my guess is that it will be more measured. My guess is that it will be more like, yeah,
01:18:48 ◼ ► it's better. Like, but I don't think I, I, anyway, I am skeptical that the Pro Max is going to come
01:18:55 ◼ ► in and everybody's going to be like, oh my God, the camera on the Pro Max is so much better than
01:19:00 ◼ ► the camera on the regular pro that any photographer should always should just buy a Pro Max. I, I'm,
01:19:06 ◼ ► I'm dubious of that. I think it's going to be subtler than that. And the real reason you buy
01:19:11 ◼ ► the Pro Max is maybe because, uh, photography matters to you, but also because you want the
01:19:15 ◼ ► big phone, which is fine. Can we talk about the camera a little bit? I have a few thoughts,
01:19:22 ◼ ► you know, like I've taken a bunch of pictures and some video. Um, overall, I would say that
01:19:28 ◼ ► the photos that I've taken, uh, with Adina's phone and the video, um, much more vivid in color in a
01:19:35 ◼ ► way that I really like. Uh, there's more contrast, more color, a little more detail in certain places,
01:19:41 ◼ ► especially in indoors. So like, you know, what Apple is saying about the benefits that they're
01:19:46 ◼ ► seeing there, I completely agree with, uh, the, the HDR video looks fantastic. I, I took just
01:19:55 ◼ ► some video. I basically put both my iPhone and her from side by side and kind of walked around
01:20:00 ◼ ► my studio and played them back on the devices and even like transferred her video to my phone.
01:20:05 ◼ ► You immediately see the difference. You can really see where the HDR is kicking in. Like I take it
01:20:09 ◼ ► near some light sources and you can see where the phone is illuminating. Um, it's really like,
01:20:14 ◼ ► really cool that the HDR video is awesome. My favorite thing though, I'm surprised about is
01:20:20 ◼ ► night mode portraits. So portrait mode and night mode combined. This is a thing that it does now.
01:20:26 ◼ ► They have this really like, there's a great example of this in Austin Mann's, uh, photo review.
01:20:31 ◼ ► And I've been able to produce some of these myself. They have this like dreamy look to them.
01:20:47 ◼ ► But basically like overall, even without like a ton of new hardware, I mean, they've changed
01:20:54 ◼ ► some stuff in the lenses and then they've done a bunch of software stuff. I think that the camera
01:20:58 ◼ ► improvements are exactly what I would want. Um, more detail, more contrast, more color,
01:21:04 ◼ ► like they're the three things that I'm always looking for. Like I do not profess to know a
01:21:08 ◼ ► lot about photography, but over the last couple of years, I have focused more on like using iPhone
01:21:14 ◼ ► apps to edit photos. And my personal tastes are for bright colors. I like color and saturation in
01:21:21 ◼ ► my images. It's just what I like. And I feel like that the iPhone 12 pro for me is more readily
01:21:28 ◼ ► producing images that have more color in them. And so I'm, I'm really happy with it. I think it's a,
01:21:40 ◼ ► I'm and again, so I just remain excited about what the max will have and if and how it will
01:21:54 ◼ ► I've reached the point where I have a very hard time noticing differences between iPhone models.
01:22:00 ◼ ► They, you know, I, it, we've long since left the period. There are still moments. I haven't done
01:22:05 ◼ ► an HDR video test. There's probably something there because I remember when they went to,
01:22:10 ◼ ► when I, when they went to extended dynamic range, which they very specifically didn't call HDR
01:22:15 ◼ ► because it wasn't. And also because they knew they were going to be adding age, true HDR later.
01:22:20 ◼ ► When they went to extended dynamic range, you could see the difference. And I would imagine
01:22:29 ◼ ► bracketing images and doing all sorts of very clever things to expand the dynamic range.
01:22:34 ◼ ► And for people who don't know, essentially our eyes are really good at seeing things in
01:22:39 ◼ ► brightness and darkness simultaneously. And cameras are really bad at that. And so when
01:22:45 ◼ ► they're doing tricks to make the cameras better at approximating what we actually can see with
01:22:51 ◼ ► our eyes. And that especially means things like a scene with bright sunlight and dark shadows,
01:22:56 ◼ ► and being able to get the details in both, which we do naturally as human beings with vision
01:23:02 ◼ ► that cameras are bad at. So I would imagine that they have taken it further, but again,
01:23:09 ◼ ► I have not done a lot of shots of that. And I am kind of at wits end when it comes to iPhone
01:23:15 ◼ ► photography, because I've gotten to the point now where I, I do the sample tests on different models
01:23:21 ◼ ► and I look at them and I can't tell the difference. And then, and so I rely on people like Austin Mann
01:23:27 ◼ ► who are photographers who can actually say, you know, yes. Because the answer is they look good.
01:23:32 ◼ ► And that yes, the things that Apple claims in terms of improved portrait mode, improved night
01:23:39 ◼ ► mode, and night mode, portrait mode for the first time using the LIDAR scanner on the Pro. Yeah,
01:23:45 ◼ ► like all that stuff is there and I'm impressed by it. I was impressed by night mode last year too.
01:23:50 ◼ ► But beyond that, you know, I don't know. I use my iPhone camera now and basically don't use my SLR
01:23:58 ◼ ► because the iPhone camera is so good. But beyond that, I don't, you know, I don't have anything
01:24:03 ◼ ► else to say about like comparing them because it's very hard for me to tell if what I'm seeing is a
01:24:09 ◼ ► difference in the, in the minutia of the moment to moment shots of the two cameras, or if it's
01:24:13 ◼ ► actually something happening. It's just like when we were struggling trying to figure out if deep
01:24:17 ◼ ► fusion was happening. Like it's really hard to tell. It's really hard to tell. Just they look
01:24:22 ◼ ► good and they look better than last year. And most people who are buying this phone are coming from
01:24:27 ◼ ► a camera that's two, three, four years older, and they're going to see a big difference. But,
01:24:31 ◼ ► you know, from year to year, it just gets incrementally better and the increments build up
01:24:35 ◼ ► and most people don't buy a new phone every year. Last thing before we finish up for now on the
01:24:42 ◼ ► iPhone 12 line, how do you feel about MagSafe? I mean, it's, I like it. It seems nice. The
01:24:55 ◼ ► magnet snapping on so you know that you've got a connection is very useful. That said, I had
01:25:02 ◼ ► the MagSafe down on my counter and before I went to bed, I laid the iPhone 12 on it, you know,
01:25:09 ◼ ► kind of old school style like the charging mats and felt like I had gotten the snap and I came
01:25:15 ◼ ► out in the morning and it had not connected. Well, to get that then I suppose. Yeah. But
01:25:22 ◼ ► it's a nice idea. I have a problem with the idea that Apple has not put a plug. I mean, so the plug
01:25:29 ◼ ► charger in the box of all of these, like I get it. It's fine. It is very strange that Apple has done
01:25:33 ◼ ► that at the same time that they put a USB-C cable in the box because you know what we all have a lot
01:25:38 ◼ ► of USB-A charging connectors, not USB-C charging connectors. USB-C charging connectors. I don't
01:25:44 ◼ ► have that many of them and I've got iPad pros that have them like I don't have that many of them.
01:25:49 ◼ ► And so the struggle with the MagSafe is that is a USB-C connector. And unlike the iPhone where you
01:25:56 ◼ ► can just go find your lightning to USB-A connector and use that instead, that thing only will take a
01:26:01 ◼ ► USB-C connector. So I had to pull an adapter that I was using somewhere else out and put it in my
01:26:07 ◼ ► kitchen where I charged my devices and plug it into the wall there. And you know, I don't know,
01:26:14 ◼ ► it's just kind of a pain, but I did it and then it works great. And I like the idea of MagSafe and
01:26:20 ◼ ► having a whole bunch of different accessories come out for it. I think that's all perfectly good,
01:26:25 ◼ ► but I don't know. The power adapter thing kind of annoys me, especially on the MagSafe. Like I get
01:26:33 ◼ ► it, the packaging is much smaller, but like it's USB-C. In the end, it's not going to matter,
01:26:50 ◼ ► - We bought two MagSafe things and I spent like half an hour looking for a spare one of those with
01:27:00 ◼ ► the USB-C end. I just kept coming across USB-A plugs and ended up finding one in a backpack
01:27:07 ◼ ► somewhere. Like similarly, right? Like I have lots of charging adapters, power adapters that have
01:27:13 ◼ ► USB-A ends on them, but not so many with USB-C ends. You know, you want to rip the band out of
01:27:22 ◼ ► at a certain point, but maybe one more year when we got USB-C, but whatever. Like then it's like,
01:27:28 ◼ ► what about the people three years before? It's a thing that's frustrating to lots of people. I
01:27:33 ◼ ► can see why they're doing it, but you know, as we said before, it frustrates me that it's clearly a
01:27:40 ◼ ► cost-saving measure as well, you know? - Yeah, well, I just think that they did it wrong. I
01:27:44 ◼ ► think last year they should have put a USB charger in the box with the USB-C cord, but it wasn't,
01:27:58 ◼ ► the right thing to do is seed the world with USB-C chargers and then take the charger out of the box.
01:28:03 ◼ ► - Yeah, but then the argument would be, which I understand is the year-over-year upgrade is not
01:28:06 ◼ ► necessarily the right place to do that anyway. - It's true. You're right, because they're not,
01:28:15 ◼ ► - The Discord is telling us that the pro lines had USB-C last year, the regular ones had USB-A.
01:28:21 ◼ ► - Okay. Anyway, you're right that most people aren't upgrading from last year's model anyway.
01:28:26 ◼ ► So it's just, it's an unfortunate confluence of things that they put a USB-C cord in the box,
01:28:53 ◼ ► a three-meter MagSafe compatible charger on Amazon or something like that. It may be there already.
01:28:59 ◼ ► - I hope so. Because we really had to do some gymnastics to snake it up the back of the bedside
01:29:06 ◼ ► cabinet, right? It was not easy to do. So that's the iPhone 12. I mean, obviously, we're not done,
01:29:15 ◼ ► right? We'll be talking about the Mini and Max in a few weeks' time, I think. So I'm excited about
01:29:21 ◼ ► that. But yeah, these are interesting phones. The design, I think, is the real king here,
01:29:27 ◼ ► but it depends on what colors you want to go for. I think that's super cool. And I really like flat
01:29:33 ◼ ► sides. I'm looking forward to having my phone every day be like that rather than one that I
01:29:43 ◼ ► to getting my hands on the Mini because I'm still intrigued by the idea of having a smaller iPhone.
01:29:49 ◼ ► Although I will say that I do love the 12. It's really great. And it's going to be harder for the
01:29:57 ◼ ► Mini to sort of dislodge me from the 12, but I am intrigued by it. - This episode is brought to you
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01:31:24 ◼ ► WordPress. That's it. These days, WordPress and custom templates that took me months to build,
01:31:32 ◼ ► I wrote about this on Six Colors. I spent like six months working on custom templates and working
01:31:39 ◼ ► with people at Automattic who helped out. I've got plugins and all sorts of custom stuff inside of
01:31:46 ◼ ► WordPress and I've paid to have a couple custom WordPress plugins written for me put all together
01:31:52 ◼ ► or modifying existing plugins. There's a lot of stuff going on there but we moved from movable
01:31:57 ◼ ► type to WordPress mostly because it allows me to do a whole bunch of membership features and have
01:32:02 ◼ ► people log in if they're supporters and they see different stuff and if you're not logged in,
01:32:06 ◼ ► you see different stuff and it's been great. What app do you use to send the text? Do you just
01:32:14 ◼ ► paste it into the web? Where are you getting from computer to, you know what I'm saying?
01:32:25 ◼ ► Yeah, so on the iPad, I modified all my shortcuts to use the posting API for WordPress which is
01:32:32 ◼ ► essentially the same posting API as for movable type because they're both using this old posting
01:32:38 ◼ ► standard XML RPC. So that was super convenient. I thought I was going to throw away all the work I
01:32:45 ◼ ► did to post for movable type via shortcuts on the iPad and it turns out I didn't. It was a shockingly
01:32:52 ◼ ► simple change to get it all to work on WordPress. On the Mac, I mostly write in bbedit and then I
01:33:00 ◼ ► can paste that in either to the web page CMS for WordPress or I use Mars Edit from Red Sweater
01:33:08 ◼ ► software which works great with WordPress. Works better with WordPress than it did with movable
01:33:12 ◼ ► type honestly because we had hacked movable type to do a bunch of things that Mars Edit was less
01:33:17 ◼ ► happy about whereas it all works just fine with WordPress. It doesn't surprise me as well though
01:33:23 ◼ ► because the version of movable type you were using was a billion years old. Yes, yes, with
01:33:28 ◼ ► modification. The modifications were really the killer. It's like adding custom fields that were
01:33:33 ◼ ► not necessarily seen by Mars Edit but Mars Edit sees all of the custom fields and stuff that we've
01:33:38 ◼ ► got in the WordPress version. So I use Mars Edit some of the time. I think Dan writes mostly in
01:33:42 ◼ ► Mars Edit. I do a lot of bbedit stuff and then just paste it in to the CMS or into Mars Edit but
01:33:48 ◼ ► on the iPad it's great. I have whether I'm writing in drafts or in one writer, I have like a keyboard
01:33:53 ◼ ► shortcut that just pops it right into the CMS and opens the web page in WordPress with it ready to
01:33:58 ◼ ► go out. Nice. Then I can check it out and preview it and do whatever but it's in there kind of
01:34:02 ◼ ► automatically. Got a Kremlinology question from Yitz who wants to know, do you think Apple might
01:34:15 ◼ ► have actually filmed all two or all three Apple events at the same time or at least the parts that
01:34:21 ◼ ► involve the same people? Like do you think they wrapped one and started a whole new one or do you
01:34:26 ◼ ► think there was a continuation? I think they wrapped one and started a new one. Like they
01:34:31 ◼ ► didn't film them at the same time? No and the reason I say that is first off I think it makes
01:34:37 ◼ ► more sense because they're different events with different people involved and some of the same
01:34:41 ◼ ► people but also I would say you would you know you could shoot all of Tim Cook's stuff at once
01:34:48 ◼ ► but you'd need Tim Cook to change his wardrobe and like you'd want it to seem like a different event
01:34:55 ◼ ► not a rerun of the previous event. So that's my guess is that my guess is that they are in
01:35:00 ◼ ► continuous production of these things especially if there's a third one but that they probably
01:35:06 ◼ ► unless there was a very specific scheduling thing but nobody's really traveling much my guess is
01:35:13 ◼ ► that they they probably have a schedule with all the different stuff but that they prioritize sort
01:35:17 ◼ ► of like this is for number one and then as they wrap number one they moved on to number two and
01:35:22 ◼ ► presumably as they wrap number two they moved on to number three that's just a guess. My guess is
01:35:27 ◼ ► that it is if you do it as one production you have to have all the scripts run ahead of time which
01:35:33 ◼ ► means that they would have needed everything for all three events before they started doing event
01:35:37 ◼ ► one. I doubt that they work that way even if they know what the products are that's a huge amount of
01:35:42 ◼ ► work to do in advance of the set whereas you can have it be if you think of it as a an assembly
01:35:48 ◼ ► line or a conveyor belt like the people who are working on the script and then they pass that off
01:35:52 ◼ ► and then it goes to production and they pass that off and they shoot it and then it goes to post
01:35:55 ◼ ► production and then coming right behind that is number two and then presumably coming behind that
01:35:59 ◼ ► is number three just kind of makes sense to do it that way. So my gut feeling is they didn't shoot
01:36:06 ◼ ► all of Tim Cook's introductions for the entire falls event also because like Tim's right over
01:36:11 ◼ ► there in his office and he can just Tim Cook would probably prefer a few shorter photo shoots or video
01:36:17 ◼ ► shoots too. Also keep in mind they have to be familiar with their scripts and stuff so you're
01:36:22 ◼ ► going to give people even more script to record. I think it breaks down so I don't know that for
01:36:27 ◼ ► sure it's possible but my guess would be that they didn't shoot these that way. So I think there's a
01:36:33 ◼ ► few things at play here one stuff changes as well right so like especially with some of these
01:36:39 ◼ ► products I'm sure they were going up to the wire on some of them so you would maybe want to give
01:36:43 ◼ ► yourself as much time as possible. The weather changes too what if it rains one day and then
01:36:47 ◼ ► it's sunny another day and or it's like a the smoke came in one day and then it's clear another
01:36:53 ◼ ► day and you're weird and you're like well wait that was on a smoky day and like I don't think
01:36:57 ◼ ► I think they want to keep I'm not saying they shoot it all in the same day but I'm saying
01:37:00 ◼ ► you know if you shoot in a compressed amount of time it's going to seem a little more unified
01:37:05 ◼ ► without you having to do work to fake it. Yeah and also as well throughout the presentations
01:37:11 ◼ ► you can tell that they got a little bit more relaxed about like social distancing as things
01:37:17 ◼ ► became that's true too a little bit more feasible people could understand what they were able to do
01:37:23 ◼ ► more people were allowed to be actually at apple park because there's there's more scenes where
01:37:28 ◼ ► it seems like people are in the space with each other right and also like those warnings at the
01:37:33 ◼ ► end have changed like the one is that they're doing at the end so there's no way they could
01:37:42 ◼ ► some like time I think between the two most recent events but no way was there anything done from
01:37:47 ◼ ► WWDC1 at the same time like shown later on I don't think for sure. Steve says do you have any interest
01:37:54 ◼ ► in a bumper style case making a comeback now that we have the flat side phones again I love those
01:38:00 ◼ ► and they would make a lot of sense if you wanted to show off your new color and make use of the new
01:38:05 ◼ ► magsafe charging system. It's a good idea. Bumper cases have existed ever since the iPhone 4 right
01:38:12 ◼ ► companies continue to make them and you know I know people have used them there's a few companies
01:38:19 ◼ ► I think one of them that I've seen that I've I think I tried one once and didn't like it
01:38:23 ◼ ► as a company called rhino shield like I just didn't like it on that particular phone and they
01:38:29 ◼ ► are back again with their bumpers but I think maybe now it makes more sense again that people
01:38:35 ◼ ► might want bumper cases but I wondered kind of like is this a is that a case style that still
01:38:41 ◼ ► appeals to you? I'm not sure it ever really appealed to me right so would I get one probably not
01:38:51 ◼ ► like I've said all the things that I love about the anodized aluminum if I felt like I really
01:38:55 ◼ ► needed a little more protection maybe I would get the bumper case but I'm I have no plan on it but
01:38:59 ◼ ► I would imagine that people will make them and that they will be more aesthetically pleasing on
01:39:07 ◼ ► these models especially the on the 12s where they've got the bright colored back like my
01:39:12 ◼ ► daughter has a purple 11 and she's got it in a clear case and like she wants to show off the
01:39:17 ◼ ► color but the clear case is I don't like the clear case so something like this that provides a little
01:39:22 ◼ ► more protection without hiding the color on the back is a good idea but I'm not interested
01:39:30 ◼ ► personally. Yeah I don't know what it is exactly but I kind of just don't particularly feel for
01:39:37 ◼ ► this type of case anymore it's like I don't know why I loved it then but not now but now I'm kind
01:39:42 ◼ ► of just like I'm either gonna go with a full case or no case it's kind of how I feel about the matter
01:39:48 ◼ ► and for my plan is to go no case on the new phone that's the plan we'll see how that goes
01:39:56 ◼ ► I have ordered a new pop socket for it I'm you know I'm keeping the pop socket life going
01:40:03 ◼ ► I'm not changing that for the time being and I'm just waiting to see if or what would be a
01:40:08 ◼ ► possibility for me for magsafe I don't know if I've been actually thinking I'm not sure if pop
01:40:13 ◼ ► socket are actually making a magnetic pop socket or if they are making a pop socket that works with
01:40:18 ◼ ► magsafe right that you still adhese something to your phone but like magsafe will still work I
01:40:23 ◼ ► actually think that is more likely what they're doing than making a pop socket that attaches with
01:40:29 ◼ ► magnets because I don't think it's strong I don't think it's going to be strong enough and I think
01:40:32 ◼ ► maybe they know that. Dave asks I don't record geotag data on photos because I don't want to
01:40:39 ◼ ► risk it remaining when I share photos how do you manage this? Multiple ways. So there's a few things
01:40:47 ◼ ► going on here one when you share a photo with somebody in the share sheet on iOS there is a
01:40:53 ◼ ► little button a text label called options at the top of the share sheet if you tap that it gives
01:40:59 ◼ ► you the option to uncheck location so therefore when you share it it will wipe the location
01:41:06 ◼ ► metadata from the photo for you so you can share it with somebody in a message or however and it
01:41:12 ◼ ► would and it will remove it and I think there's a way to make that the global setting I believe
01:41:16 ◼ ► but I'm not 100% sure on that one but you can turn it off. Many apps like twitter actually remove the
01:41:23 ◼ ► metadata from the image when it's uploaded so if somebody shares an image to twitter and you
01:41:28 ◼ ► download it you don't get the location information even if they didn't do anything. I have also built
01:41:34 ◼ ► a shortcut to do this because sometimes I'll take photos and share them in show notes and stuff at
01:41:40 ◼ ► full resolution I will try to share a link to that shortcut in the show notes for you it's a very
01:41:48 ◼ ► simple one it just removes the metadata and asks where you want to put it so I will try and
01:41:53 ◼ ► generate a link for that shortcut and put it in the show notes. Do you have anything different on
01:41:57 ◼ ► this Jason? Do you ever think about this? No and no you've shown it like you have options to not
01:42:05 ◼ ► share with location that's it. Last question today from Daniel when you get a new phone do you set
01:42:12 ◼ ► it up as new or do you transfer and if you transfer how? I transfer it and I actually did it with iCloud
01:42:20 ◼ ► and with a direct device to device transfer because I had the two phones on Tuesday and the iCloud
01:42:26 ◼ ► transfer went way faster than the device to device transfer but on Friday Dan Morin tried the device
01:42:34 ◼ ► the iCloud backup transfer and it took forever and then he had to quit and then and then he redid it
01:42:39 ◼ ► and it worked fine. I suspect what happens is Apple servers got a peek of people transferring their
01:42:46 ◼ ► iCloud backups and that there was a hiccup and so maybe on iPhone day it's not as good but I had
01:42:52 ◼ ► I had a very good experience with the iCloud backup and weirdly the device to device transfer
01:42:57 ◼ ► seemed to take longer for me but that's what I do and you can even plug in a cable between two
01:43:02 ◼ ► devices and transfer it that way if you want to do it there's lots of different ways to do it
01:43:06 ◼ ► you can do it based on a Mac backup but I generally just use the iCloud backup when I get a new device
01:43:11 ◼ ► and it works great. So with Adina's phone this is super interesting to me. I tried to do the
01:43:18 ◼ ► device to device transfer but it failed and said that there wasn't enough storage but that wasn't
01:43:24 ◼ ► the case. We had it was a 256 gigabyte iPhone going to a 128 gigabyte iPhone and there was 46.7
01:43:32 ◼ ► gigabytes used on the 256 gigabyte iPhone so we were only transferring maximum like 50 gigabytes
01:43:40 ◼ ► of storage so I don't know why it wouldn't allow for it and then the only thing we could do was
01:43:47 ◼ ► reset the new phone to factory settings and start again and then we just did cloud store cloud
01:43:52 ◼ ► refresh and it was super fast and no problem. So I don't know if it's because like because it was
01:43:58 ◼ ► going from 256 to 128 but if that's the case that's madness because we weren't transferring 256
01:44:04 ◼ ► gigabytes of information but the phone only said it was using 46.7 so that was my as there is always
01:44:10 ◼ ► a weird setup problem that I encounter that was this one but so I'm just going to continue doing
01:44:18 ◼ ► the cloud backup because it was super fast. I have good internet right so you know it's I have
01:44:26 ◼ ► gigabit internet so everything was downloading quickly I was doing it on iPhone launch day had
01:44:29 ◼ ► no problems so I think I'll just continue doing the cloud backup which is what I'd done before.
01:44:35 ◼ ► The device to device backup was interesting but it takes a long time as well. Yeah it's
01:44:39 ◼ ► mostly for people who don't have a good internet connection or or are data rate limited in some way
01:44:45 ◼ ► or data capped so if you can if you can be on wi-fi and it's fast and you can do iCloud backup
01:44:51 ◼ ► I highly recommend it. If you'd like to send in a question for an episode of the show just send out
01:44:56 ◼ ► a tweet with the hashtag #askupgrade or use question mark ask upgrade in the Relay FM members
01:45:01 ◼ ► discord. If you'd like to become a Relay FM member and support upgrade directly and get additional
01:45:07 ◼ ► content and the show with no ads just go to getupgradeplus.com so you get upgrade longer
01:45:13 ◼ ► episodes no ads what a great deal five dollars a month go to getupgradeplus.com if you want to find
01:45:19 ◼ ► Jason online go to sixcolors.com Jason will be publishing his more details about his thoughts on
01:45:25 ◼ ► the iPhone and iPhone 12 review probably later on this week I'm going to say. Jason's also @jasonel
01:45:32 ◼ ► on twitter I am @imike thank you to Pingdom, DoorDash and Hover for their support of this
01:45:39 ◼ ► episode and for you for listening we'll be back next time until then say goodbye Jason Stell.