322: Aux In, Cows Out


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:08   From Real AFM, this is Upgrade episode 322. Today's show is brought to you by Text Expander from SMILE,

00:00:16   ExpressVPN and Pingdom. My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by Jason Snell. Hi Jason Snell.

00:00:23   Hello Myke Hurley. This is my, I don't know why the vocal embodiment of this is an episode full

00:00:31   of follow-up and catch-up came out that way, but that was what I was going for when I said that.

00:00:35   I think it's because you've been watching Taskmaster because that was a very Alex

00:00:38   Morgan kind of intro, was it? Little Jason Snell. Yeah, that's it.

00:00:44   Yep, we'll talk about that at some point and if you have no idea what I'm doing,

00:00:47   go and watch Taskmaster. Yeah. If you're in the US, it's on YouTube. If you're in the UK,

00:00:51   you can get it in UK TV Play for free. Super awesome. It's one of my favorite finds of the

00:00:58   entire year, but through Jason Snell, of course, and Jason's recommendation. It's just a wonderful,

00:01:03   wonderful fun TV show. I have a #SnellTalk question for you from Hunter. Jason, is there

00:01:09   an iPhone color that you wish Apple would have announced last week? Well, blue is my favorite

00:01:16   and so I'm very happy that there are many blues and iPhones. It makes me very happy.

00:01:21   So what's left? Orange. I love that coral iPhone XR. An orange iPhone would be, I guess,

00:01:32   the one that they could have added to the lineup that would have made me happy.

00:01:35   I actually agree. I knew you were going to say orange and orange was also what I wanted too.

00:01:40   I would love a nice orange phone, but like a good orange, like a really good orange.

00:01:44   Yeah. I mean, this is the thing of like, actually, I wouldn't mind it if Apple stopped using all the

00:01:51   materials that they use and like, you know, don't give me good colors in the pro line.

00:01:57   They like that that we get in the regular line. Like they don't have to look like they're made

00:02:02   of metal or whatever it is you do, right? Like let's shake it up a bit, but nevertheless.

00:02:07   So today is an episode full of catch up because I think unlike, this feels like unlike most

00:02:15   iPhone events, there was a lot of information that came out in the days after. And I wanted to

00:02:22   go through it. I think this is akin to one of our posts, like the week after WWDC kind of episodes,

00:02:28   where so much happened like during the event and so much was learned afterward that we spend the

00:02:34   next week kind of like following up all the things that happened the previous week. And that feels

00:02:41   like that's what we need to do this time. And I think this came out in the last episode,

00:02:44   especially for me. I was very confused and found it all very frustrating that there was a bunch of

00:02:48   information that I knew was out there, but I couldn't disseminate quick enough for the show.

00:02:54   But now we've been able to do that and we will provide a service to you, the listener, to give

00:02:58   you all of the information. But even in an episode full of follow-up, we still have a distinct

00:03:04   follow-up section, which we will now begin. PopSockets will be making MagSafe compatible

00:03:09   PopSockets in the future. This was something that came out very quickly. This is obviously taking

00:03:15   advantage of the new MagSafe system. I'm very intrigued to see what they do here. I can't

00:03:21   imagine a PopSocket like how PopSockets currently work, working on this, but I have yet myself to be

00:03:28   able to understand how strong that magnet is. But I'm just pleased that they are exploring it

00:03:34   for some time in the future because that's something that I want.

00:03:38   T-Mobile and Sprint now have equal iPhone pricing with Verizon and AT&T. So you may remember,

00:03:46   we were talking about it was a $30 difference, I think, for the phone there, right?

00:03:49   Yeah, $30. And it was just Verizon and AT&T when they posted the page. But on Friday,

00:03:57   when iPhone pre-orders began, they equalized—this is for the 12 and the 12 mini—they equalized with

00:04:04   AT&T and Verizon, meaning that if you're in the U.S. and on one of the four major carriers,

00:04:10   you get that price that ends in a 99. However, if you want an unlocked SIM-free phone, for example,

00:04:19   if you're using an alternate carrier, guess what? You have to pay a price that ends in a 29,

00:04:26   if you're buying a 12 or 12 mini. So because this is the—we'll talk about iPhone pricing a lot more

00:04:32   later, but this is just the recognition that sometimes a 699 phone is actually a 729 phone.

00:04:40   MATT: Yeah, and I don't know why there was ever a disparity. It doesn't make sense to me.

00:04:47   Like, I don't know why these—like, I can't imagine that these networks would say, "No,

00:04:53   we don't want to do—" Like, it's just weird to me. Like, I don't get it. But nevertheless.

00:04:57   iPad Air pre-orders are finally open, so when the iPhone 12 and 12 Pro went on pre-order on Friday,

00:05:05   the iPad Air also mysteriously went to pre-order as well. This was the device announced in the

00:05:13   September event, and I believe it comes out on Friday this week.

00:05:19   So, yep, that's it. This is the product that was unveiled at its own event in—I mean, shared,

00:05:27   but its own event in September will be taken—the pre-orders were taken, and the shipping will take

00:05:33   place, same time as the October event products, the 12 and 12 Pro. Weird. But that's 2020. Apple

00:05:43   announced the iPad Air last month but wants it to ship alongside its fellow A14-bearing products,

00:05:51   the 12 and the 12 Pro. So, we'll see that iPad Air on Friday.

00:05:54   >> So, my expectation would be that we will see two rounds of reviews drop this week,

00:06:01   if Apple keep to the usual schedules. I don't know if anything will change here. I mean,

00:06:07   obviously, this is the first time that Apple have, I guess, seeded review units of iPhones

00:06:13   without there ever being in-person briefings. So, I'm intrigued to see if and how it changes.

00:06:21   >> Right. But that's happened with other products. I mean, that's happened with other products, too.

00:06:24   >> Yeah, but the iPhone is a different beast. I could imagine—I don't know. I really do not

00:06:28   know the answer to this question. But I could imagine two embargoes this week, like one for

00:06:35   unboxing and first looks and one for reviews. I don't know.

00:06:38   >> Well, they've done that before, and they could do that again. I think I've seen Apple adapt this

00:06:47   year, and I've had multiple examples of Apple shipping me a product, a piece of hardware,

00:06:57   for a review. In the old days, they probably would have insisted on an in-person briefing,

00:07:04   but not always. Sometimes that doesn't happen. You're right, not for the iPhone, but the iPhone

00:07:09   is different. But anyway, it's not that far off the playbook. Like, that iMac that came out,

00:07:17   I mean, I literally was told, "We have a hardware announcement. You will be receiving the hardware.

00:07:23   Essentially, don't open the box until we talk to you." So, they have been changing their thing.

00:07:30   So, I imagine that all of the—and I'm not one of these people—but that all the iPhone 12

00:07:35   reviewers who are in that first wave of embargo drops will have had phones since last week

00:07:43   sometime, and will be writing about them and doing their videos and all those things later on this

00:07:49   week. >> Okay. I mean, that would make sense based on the way that things have gone in the past. But

00:07:56   it's just, you know, and I think it's not wild to wonder if things will be the same this time around.

00:08:03   >> You know, the one that made me laugh was Becky Worley, who used to work at Tech TV. I remember

00:08:10   her from back when she was a producer on Call for Help. She is the tech correspondent for

00:08:17   Good Morning America on the ABC network here in the U.S. And she had iPhone 12 and 12 Pro

00:08:25   units to show on TV last week. >> I saw that.

00:08:29   >> Which I think is really interesting, right? Because it's like, well, nobody

00:08:32   who's got that stuff can admit that they have it. But for TV, they're like, "Yeah, you can,

00:08:37   you know, you can show them. Don't talk about using them, but just you can show them. We'll

00:08:41   let you show them very specifically to her." And that makes me laugh. But they're trying stuff.

00:08:46   They're trying different stuff. Good for them. >> Yeah, that was definitely different. I noticed

00:08:49   she had the wallet. There's a little video. I'll put a link in the show. She had the wallet. And it

00:08:53   was funny because she didn't attach it properly. She's like presenting and it was kind of like

00:09:01   skew with. This is kind of like a funny thing where it's like, you know, someone at Apple's

00:09:05   like, "Ah, God, no." Right? Like it's the first time anyone's ever seen the wallet attached to

00:09:10   the phone. And she just like, she ended up moving it and doing it correctly. But it was just like

00:09:15   one of those fun little things. And also I want to give a shout out, follow out to Federico

00:09:19   Vitticci's iOS 14 review. It is now out. I am multiple chapters in and I'm already still

00:09:27   learning things and getting just as much value out of Federico's incredible work as always. If

00:09:31   you have not checked it out and you have, even a passing interest in iOS and iPadOS is worth going

00:09:37   and perusing. Even if you just jump around to your favorite chapters, Federico has done a fantastic

00:09:42   job as always. So I urge the gradients to go check it out. >> So good. >> Some upstream headlines.

00:09:48   Jason, this is all Apple TV related today. >> Lots of stuff happening. Yeah. >> Bruce Springsteen has

00:09:55   a documentary coming to Apple TV+ in October. It is a behind the scenes of the first performance of

00:10:04   Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band in 35 years. It was a live performance that they did

00:10:09   and they made a documentary about it. And that's going to be on Apple TV+. >> Yeah. I think that's

00:10:15   later this week because he's got a, they're dropping an album and then there's this Apple TV+

00:10:20   thing that goes along with it. It's all part of the rollout. >> And it actually ties in because

00:10:24   now Apple are doing a kind of a celebration of this on the brand new Apple Music TV, which was

00:10:30   announced today. >> Yeah. Why didn't they shorten that to Apple MTV? Oh, they can't. But it is. >> I

00:10:36   want my Apple MTV. >> But I grew up in the 80s. It's MTV. Like they, the classic MTV, they are

00:10:45   streaming a live video channel that is music videos and other stuff like that live, just

00:10:55   streaming. Not on demand music videos. This is, think of that Beats, Beats One or whatever it's

00:11:00   called now, Apple Radio One. This is that for TV, except it's just music videos. >> I don't get this.

00:11:07   >> Interviews and stuff. >> I don't get it. >> It's an interesting idea. >> US only at the moment.

00:11:11   It's available in Apple Music on the, on the app and on the Apple TV. A quote to Variety, Apple

00:11:17   gave this exclusive to Variety. It says, "Exclusive new music videos and premieres, special curated

00:11:23   music video blocks and live shows and events as well as chart countdowns and guests." So there's

00:11:29   some stuff in there that makes sense to me. Live shows, events, chart countdowns even. But you've

00:11:36   got to assume that this kind of content is more focused towards a youth audience, right? Like

00:11:42   that's new music tends to be consumed by the young. Why would anybody put this on to see what

00:11:53   music videos are on when they can just go to YouTube and watch whatever they want? >> I don't

00:11:58   know. >> I don't get this. This is like the Beats One model again. >> Why would anybody do Beats One,

00:12:04   right? Why would anybody do that when they can just choose what music they want to play on demand

00:12:08   and play it? I don't know. >> Yeah, but I'm still not convinced that the let's listen to music part

00:12:13   of Beats One has worked. What worked with Beats One is the radio style shows that they have done

00:12:20   with notable individuals. >> Well, Myke, you've just described the evolution of MTV. >> Yeah. >> Which

00:12:27   is that MTV started as a random assortment of music videos and very quickly became shows

00:12:36   that were shows of music videos. And then it was sort of shows about musical genres. And then it

00:12:43   was shows that appeal to the same people who like music videos. And ultimately, after about 15 years,

00:12:49   literally just shows, just reality shows. But that was the evolution is I could turn on MTV. And

00:12:58   here's an admission. When I was a kid, I didn't have cable. So I, until I was a freshman in high

00:13:02   school, I never, I only saw MTV as recorded on videotape by friends. >> So you wanted your MTV,

00:13:09   then? >> I totally wanted my MTV and I didn't get it. And there were alternate ways to watch music

00:13:14   videos, but they were so sad. NBC had an hour on a Friday night called Friday Night Videos where they

00:13:20   just played music videos. And somebody like me who only had an antenna that was like, "I can see the

00:13:24   music videos now." And I distinctly remember what videos they played actually. Amazing. So MTV,

00:13:33   you'd flip it on and it might be Michael Jackson. It might be Madonna. It might be Chicago. It might

00:13:41   be Rush. It could be it. It could be Van Halen. It could be anybody. And then if you didn't like that

00:13:48   one, well, you just sit there and wait and see what happened next. And that was novel. But again,

00:13:55   I think people very rapidly discovered that, "Oh, what if we made appointment television where we

00:14:01   had a show that ran on Saturday that was just heavy metal and we put that on." And the people

00:14:06   gravitated toward that. So I don't know. This is fascinating to me. And maybe if there's an

00:14:14   audience for it, that's great. I'm not the audience for it, but that's great. I think

00:14:17   it's interesting that Apple is dabbling in live, in streaming channels that are 24/7. I think that's

00:14:26   a cool idea. I think I mentioned this about Peacock. Peacock has a bunch of channels and

00:14:33   the channels are literally just stuff that's on Peacock, but they just play continually.

00:14:39   I think there is something in that. I think there is something in... I think Netflix has tried to do

00:14:47   this with the idea of, can you do a random play or something? It's like, is there a 30 Rock channel?

00:14:52   You could watch just random episodes of 30 Rock and see what comes up. I think maybe there's

00:14:56   something to that. You could do stuff like that, but this isn't that. This is just all music.

00:15:03   That exists. And I clicked play on it today before the show and the music video came up and I was

00:15:09   like, not interested. And then I closed it. And that was my entire experience with Apple.

00:15:14   I think what I like about this announcement, the thing that I do like about it, I think is it

00:15:19   highlights that there is autonomy of some description inside of the Apple Music Group.

00:15:27   Because I don't think Apple Music TV aligns with Apple's current streaming services direction.

00:15:38   It feels like an offshoot. You can definitely draw some lines, some red string to how it makes sense,

00:15:45   but it really is kind of out of left field, even the way they announced it, just like randomly on

00:15:50   a Monday to variety. It feels very much like something that that group wanted to do and they've

00:15:58   been able to go and do it. And I think I kind of like that because that's how good things are found.

00:16:04   I think I would also say this feels a little bit like an industry deal. A little bit where I think

00:16:15   some of the entertainment products that Apple comes out with are not necessarily motivated by

00:16:22   what we would consider classic Apple, let's create a product knowing what people want.

00:16:29   This smells to me like a product that was created because of some deal or relationship or something

00:16:39   that is being negotiated by Apple with music companies. Maybe even a condition of them getting

00:16:49   access to certain video content for Apple Music. That this was either invented by Apple as a

00:16:57   vehicle for that stuff or suggested to Apple by the music industry as something they wanted.

00:17:03   I don't know. That's just my... I could be wrong. And it could be that somebody inside Apple

00:17:07   can say, "Oh no, there's an audience for this and it's going to be successful and I'll tell you why."

00:17:12   And I'd love to hear that. But my gut feeling is that this is probably more about a larger deal,

00:17:20   a larger relationship between entertainment companies and Apple. And by having this,

00:17:26   Apple unlocks things that it actually wants and that it thinks its customers want. And this is

00:17:32   just an adjunct where it needs to exist because they want it to exist. So we'll give it to them,

00:17:40   but what we really want is something else. I don't know.

00:17:42   - The morning show was resumed filming. Even though two episodes were mostly complete,

00:17:48   the show has undergone significant rewrites to reflect COVID. We mentioned this before when they

00:17:53   said they'd stopped shooting. But I believe the report that I read suggests that they start

00:17:59   shooting today again on season two. - Yeah. And just for people who are wondering about

00:18:06   "For All Mankind," my understanding there is that they shot almost everything,

00:18:09   but they had a couple episodes left to go or something like that. And I'm not sure if they've

00:18:14   come back yet. I think they have. Yeah. I think that that happened already where they picked that

00:18:20   stuff up. But we're going to see some interesting... Talk about a challenge for the continuity people.

00:18:23   It's like, what was your hair like? Like trying to get it exactly right so that it doesn't seem

00:18:29   strange from scene to scene? Like this was shot in March and this was shot in October.

00:18:32   - Especially as hair and makeup stuff was a little bit more restricted on film.

00:18:36   - Yeah. So there are some challenges there, but they're putting it all together.

00:18:40   - Season two of "Dickinson" premieres on January 8th. This will be the first show from the original

00:18:47   set to... Well, it's the first to actually have an official launch date for a second season.

00:18:53   Could be the first one that actually broadcasts of a second season. And season three is

00:18:59   now in development after "Consume." - I wanted to mention that I am watching "Long Way Up,"

00:19:05   which we talked about here, which is the Ewan McGregor, Charlie Borman ride electric motorcycles

00:19:11   from the tip of South America to Los Angeles. So this is a documentary series. What's funny,

00:19:19   and we talked about this, what, last week, two weeks ago, that time has no meaning anymore,

00:19:24   but that they picked up the catalog content. So this has got the two previous series that they did

00:19:30   like 15 years ago, "Long Way Round" and "Long Way Down" were picked up and put on Apple TV.

00:19:37   And then this series was there. And I watched both of those series and I liked them. And I thought

00:19:41   they got better as they went because I thought the "Long Way Down" series had a much more of a

00:19:46   travelogue feel, whereas the first one, "Long Way Round" was very much like two guys deal with bad

00:19:51   roads and mechanical problems on their motorcycles. And the fact that they happened to be in Mongolia

00:19:56   was not as important as that their motorcycle broke or that there was a river they had to get

00:20:00   across. But they were shot in 2004 and 2007. And so this is my comment. This is why I wanted to

00:20:06   bring it up. To go from 2007 production values to 2020 production values, they shot this in 2019, but

00:20:14   the idea that like they're not... The first series, the cameras mounted on their motorcycle helmets

00:20:24   and the microphones that were in their helmets and stuff and all the stuff that they used for

00:20:29   shooting, like first off, it's all standard death and it's big. And cameras are so much better now.

00:20:38   If you think about 2006, 2007 to now, this show, "Long Way Up" is 4K HDR and looks amazing.

00:20:52   And it looks amazing. The fact that it follows for me, like literally the next day from watching

00:21:02   the episode that they shot in South Africa in 2007. Wow. I just wanted to say, I've only watched

00:21:10   the first episode of "Long Way Up," but from that, I just took away from it just how much

00:21:15   technology and camera technology in particular has advanced. Also in "Long Way Down," they're

00:21:21   very excited to have this Nokia phone that has GPS in it because it's 2006. And they're like,

00:21:27   "A GPS with a map on it. Let's check the map because Nokia is a sponsor. Let's check the map."

00:21:32   And we're just laughing at it because a couple of years later, that's all gone. The iPhone.

00:21:37   And suffice it to say, the Apple TV+ show, they have iPhones on their motorcycles. Shocker. I

00:21:42   know. Shocker. But I just love how much the tech has improved in terms of cameras that we went from

00:21:49   standard death on their previous show to 4K HDR. And not just like the big cameras that they shoot

00:21:56   from the vans and stuff, but the helmet-mounted stuff is tiny and spectacularly better in terms

00:22:03   of quality. It's amazing to see. So that's been fun to watch. And lastly today, Apple announced

00:22:10   that they have done a new deal with Peanuts, the Charlie Brown people. Peanuts worldwide.

00:22:17   They're going to be bringing some classic Charlie Brown specials to TV+ along with new originals and

00:22:23   another new season of Snoopy in Space. Yeah. And it sounds like they're doing some new holiday-themed

00:22:29   ones because they were always holiday specials. And they've run out of holidays for Peanuts

00:22:34   specials, but they found some. They've unearthed or created some new ones. But one aspect of this

00:22:39   press release that, at least the way I read it, is that even if you're not an Apple TV+ subscriber,

00:22:45   on basically a day or two around the holiday, they are going to make them available for free.

00:22:52   So like the "It's the Great Pumpkin Charlie Brown" will be available October 30th through November

00:22:59   1st for free on Apple TV+. So everybody will be able to watch it, it sounds like.

00:23:05   That's the way I read that. Yeah, I think so. And then likewise for "Charlie Brown Thanksgiving"

00:23:12   and "Charlie Brown Christmas" that they will... We'll see. We will see how they do it, but it

00:23:19   sounds like they're trying to... They want to be the home of Peanuts, basically. So we'll see how

00:23:23   that goes. This episode is brought to you by TextExpander from our friends at Smaal. Take your time

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00:25:04   to learn more about TextExpander today. That's textexpander.com/podcast. Our thanks to TextExpander

00:25:10   for their support of this show and Relay FM. So one week later we have a bunch of things that we

00:25:17   have learned. One of the things that we were confused about so much last time was about the way

00:25:24   that the HomePod and HomePod Mini would work with TV because we thought it would be one thing, then

00:25:29   we read the website which made it seem like it was another thing, and then we changed our minds.

00:25:33   But here's what it is. So we were super confused about if you could use the HomePod Mini in a stereo

00:25:39   pair with the TV and how that would work. So it turns out that two HomePod Minis in a stereo pair

00:25:45   will do almost exactly what the original HomePod can currently do. So what I was talking about,

00:25:53   the setup that I really love at home with my two HomePods, the HomePod Mini will do that. So you

00:25:58   can connect a stereo pair to your TV and you get this immersive stereo experience. But we were

00:26:05   talking about something that said, what was it like Apple TV HD or something like TV audio or

00:26:13   something was on the website. Yeah it was a home theater or something like that. That was it. So

00:26:18   we thought it was a feature that existed but it turns out it's a new feature that was only

00:26:22   announced in the bullet points of the HomePod and it's HomePod only not HomePod Mini supported. And

00:26:30   that is what I guessed it was actually based on that which is it's basically doing with HomePods

00:26:37   what the same thing that happens with AirPods Pro which is it's taking a surround signal and decoding

00:26:46   it to create spatial audio out of two HomePods but that only works on the big HomePods. It's

00:26:55   basically 5.1 and 7.1 surround and Dolby Atmos content will be now played in what is called an

00:27:02   immersive home theater experience when paired with an Apple TV 4K. And this is coming at some point,

00:27:08   presumably this is probably all going to be of iOS 14.2. It was my expectation. I haven't seen

00:27:17   it anywhere. This will be especially useful because with tvOS and iOS 14.2 you'll be able

00:27:23   to finally set the HomePod as the default speaker so you no longer have to change it from no I want

00:27:30   it not to be on the TV I want it to be the HomePod. You can just set it up and be like

00:27:34   for this Apple TV 4K these HomePods are the speakers when anything ever plays it comes to

00:27:40   here no matter what has happened on the HomePod. Because it's always annoying to me that if I

00:27:44   listen to music on my HomePod the next time I go to the TV I then have to set the output again.

00:27:49   So you'll be able to actually set it as no this is where the TV plays audio too. So I am extra

00:27:55   excited about this for two reasons. One I can now restate what I said last time which was if you pay

00:28:02   $200 and get two HomePod minis my expectation is you're going to have a great home theater setup

00:28:08   if you're wanting to use an Apple TV of it. I really recommend this for people that live in

00:28:13   small spaces in apartments and stuff like that. I guarantee you will get even though I have not

00:28:19   used the HomePod mini I can still I think guarantee that you will get a better experience than using

00:28:25   your television speakers. So that's really great because then you can also put them wherever you

00:28:31   want you can put them closer to you super awesome. And then when the new HomePod comes I'm really

00:28:37   excited to try out how this sounds so well not the new HomePod the new update for the HomePod

00:28:43   really excited about that. Yeah I expect that you will download a beta update your HomePods to

00:28:49   version that supports this and add this to your tvOS review. The connected tvOS review yeah this

00:28:54   is yes and in fact I in fact I would say Myke this is such an exciting feature you might want

00:28:58   to hold off on your tvOS review until this feature ships. Yeah unfortunately Apple keeps pushing back

00:29:06   my tvOS review on connected and this is just another reason why I've done it. Yeah the HomePod

00:29:11   mini supports Thread networking this is the first Apple product to do so. I'll give you a quote here

00:29:17   from MacRumors article but I can explain it a little more detail. Thread is a low power IP

00:29:22   based networking technology for connecting internet of things devices offering a secure

00:29:26   mesh based system that makes it easy to build an ecosystem of devices. So this is basically like

00:29:32   I think it's a separate chip in some devices but maybe some like system on a chip support it but

00:29:40   it effectively allows for internet like smart devices to talk to each other in a low power way

00:29:47   and is supported across lots of different device types. Yeah this is an emerging I think that it's

00:29:55   in here just makes me suspect that the connected home working group is perhaps going to standardize

00:30:01   on Thread as their choice. It feels likely doesn't it. But this is in fact I learned about Thread from

00:30:09   when Eero sponsored our podcast. Me too I was going to say that yep that the first devices that I knew about was

00:30:15   Eero's because they're not a sponsor today but they are a sponsor in general. They're beacons

00:30:21   the little extenders they work with Thread networking. Yeah so this is a an interesting thing that I

00:30:27   think like the U1 chip is kind of you raise an eyebrow and you say what does this mean for the

00:30:33   future and maybe nothing but probably something maybe you know this I doubt they would have put

00:30:40   it in here if they didn't have some sort of intent of using it down the road. Yeah I expect all of

00:30:46   Apple's home products will get Thread chips going into the future. So it's just like a it is a

00:30:51   standard Apple is on the standards body for Thread network for Thread so you know this is one of them.

00:30:57   Like his bigger sibling the HomePod mini has a non-detachable cable but this time it ends in a

00:31:05   USB-C connector and there is a 21 adapter in the box. That's nice. So there's the two things about

00:31:13   this story is like one the thing that upset a lot of people and I understand why at first is that

00:31:18   like the HomePod had no way of bringing AUX in right you basically you could only play audio that

00:31:24   it would allow you couldn't plug anything into it right and then the cable the power cable was just

00:31:30   physically attached to it but now with the the HomePod mini it ends in a USB-C which I think is

00:31:37   actually a better choice for this product. I don't know if I would necessarily assume that Apple

00:31:41   should do this for the main HomePod but this device seems small enough that like you might

00:31:45   want to plug it into an outlet that has a USB-C connection on it rather than a like a socket and

00:31:51   I've also seen some people suggest that you know like maybe you could power this thing through

00:31:56   other means like a battery pack right or something like that that has a USB-C attachment to it so

00:32:03   that I'm intrigued to try that out if it's only a 20 watt power adapter I would expect lots of

00:32:08   things would be able to power this thing and then that could become more useful to you as a little

00:32:13   speaker you could take around to different places because it's got USB-C on the end. Yeah you said

00:32:18   AUX in and it sounded like Orks in. You let the Orks in. Like it's a little one does not simply

00:32:24   let the Orks in. Yeah but when you say it it's like you're allowing cows or like ball into it

00:32:29   right you're just letting the AUX in. Here comes the AUX. Uh-huh AUX in. AUX in cow out.

00:32:35   AUX in, AUX out. There you go that's that's our fantasy bar we let the AUX in but the AUX need

00:32:44   to leave. Oh I would prefer the bar that lets the Orks in but not the AUX. AUX in. EarPods and iPhone

00:32:55   price they charge our prices the power adapter prices have been cut by ten dollars so that's the

00:33:02   you know now that now that we have to buy them if we want them they've cut the price a little

00:33:06   bit ten dollars is the amount that Apple's brought them down by. Apple have also removed

00:33:12   EarPods and chargers from all phones the SE and the XR no longer have them in the boxes

00:33:19   they have not amended prices so but so basically the story now is if you can buy a new phone from

00:33:28   Apple you will no longer get EarPods or the power adapters in the box.

00:33:37   So I had an upgrade and actually send in a picture they just bought a XR for a family member

00:33:43   and it's already gone so that's how I knew about the XR because I saw Mark Gorman reporting about

00:33:50   the SE no longer having it but it's also the XR it's all sold separately now. So this is all I mean

00:33:56   it's very clear now that um that worldwide Apple has said we're not gonna put power plugs in and

00:34:05   we're also gonna start not putting headphones in so it's all it's all settling down clear as crystal

00:34:13   right Myke? Yes Jason. Except in France. Oh yes except in France this is hilarious sorry I didn't

00:34:21   know we were moving on. If you live in France you still get EarPods in the box. Vive la France!

00:34:29   Vive la Revolucion! Okay um there is a law in France I would just say France I love all of our

00:34:43   French listeners. I love how you started this story though. Yep there is a law in France.

00:34:49   Sorry I apologize greatly for what I just did. The French have lots of laws that are interesting

00:35:00   um they have lots of laws around content stuff that we've spoken about before right like

00:35:05   certain amounts of music tv uh all have to be in French language and I understand they are trying

00:35:11   to protect French. Yeah they don't want our awful language ruining their language.

00:35:17   Like how their language ruined our language. Anyway one of these interesting laws

00:35:28   is that there is a law in France that every phone must be included with a hands-free kit in the box

00:35:34   so that you know that was back when we used to call them hands-free kits. This is from the era

00:35:40   where it was expected that when you bought a phone you would hold it up to your head all the time

00:35:44   which I feel like we have left that era behind but the law remains. When you hear me say that law

00:35:51   I know that everyone that's listening to this says to themselves oh yeah because of driving right

00:35:56   that's what you assume the law is about that is you include a hands-free kit so people won't

00:36:01   hold the phone up to their ears when they're driving right no wrong this is this law protects

00:36:07   children from the risks of electromagnetic waves. The uh this is the kind of law that was written

00:36:14   when what you did is you took your Nokia candy bar phone and you plugged a weird kind of wide

00:36:21   clicky thing with a bunch of pins into it click and then you had a single little earpiece with

00:36:27   that foam on it and you stuck that in your ear and a little clip on the microphone you that's right

00:36:33   and then you said I'm hands-free look at me and that was the finest uh technology of 2005.

00:36:41   So there we go so I am intrigued and I would like to know listeners out there if we have any French

00:36:49   listeners that are continuing to listen to the show they haven't rage quit. I would like this

00:36:55   earlier pictures of these boxes because I want to know how Apple are handling this. What is it

00:37:03   like tucked in like a secret compartment down at the bottom that like or is there a special

00:37:08   do they bundle it up like they do the watch like what do they do I am very intrigued about this.

00:37:14   Send us your pictures like one of your French iPhones. Oh look at that sort of a reference.

00:37:19   I hope you're proud of yourself. I am unduly proud. iPhone 12 pro features six gigabytes of ram

00:37:26   the 12 and 12 mini have four gigabytes of ram so if you're wondering why some features especially

00:37:33   in the photography department for photo and video are exclusive to the iPhone 12 pro this could be

00:37:39   the technical reason that's doing that if it's not just a we want to differentiate the line reason.

00:37:45   I think personally I think both are acceptable but this could be the reason like there are some like

00:37:52   the the pro raw is on these phones only and that you know maybe ram helps with that and I believe

00:37:58   that there is a different frame rate for the HDR video. I believe this goes up to 60 frames per

00:38:05   second on the pro phones and 30 frames per second on the non-pro phones is that right Jason?

00:38:10   You see the 30 and 60 or 60 and 120 but basically this could be the one of the things that

00:38:17   it's 30 and 60. I think it's 30 and 60. So this could be it who knows but there is a difference

00:38:23   that is one of the differences that exists for these devices 30 and 60 David is confirming in

00:38:30   the discord. All leather cases for the new phones will not be available until November 6th. So this

00:38:38   was an interesting thing it was just it was just the plastic and silicon cases that were available

00:38:45   in the Apple store. I did find this interesting that OtterBox have cases in the Apple store

00:38:52   already so obviously Apple have done some kind of deal with them to allow them to have the actual

00:38:57   specifications in advance so I think that's kind of interesting. Those OtterBox cases look really

00:39:03   nice too they're like a almost tie-dye Jason I think you would like them I know you like tie-dye.

00:39:08   Apple have not yet announced a date for the MagSafe Duo charger which is

00:39:15   funny right because it's like any any charger based solution that Apple introduces that even

00:39:24   looks like it could be air power now maybe they will not talk about when it's coming out in case

00:39:29   it can't but that device has not yet been announced with a date but it's just coming at some point but

00:39:37   all of the leather cases will be available for purchase on or around the time that you can get

00:39:44   your the other round of pre-order phones and cases and MagSafe chargers have begun arriving with

00:39:52   customers so people started receiving them there's been lots of photos of them online. I'm really

00:39:58   intrigued to see how exactly how these cases sit on the new phones obviously that's not a thing that

00:40:05   we've been able to see yet because you know it doesn't look like there's much of a lip on the

00:40:11   the case but like a little bit and I'm really intrigued to see like how far up the case the

00:40:17   phone that these cases go you know like do they do they sit flush with the screens do they overhang

00:40:23   the screens a little bit I'm interested to see that plus just when you look at that MagSafe

00:40:29   charger it looks really weird because it looks like it's a Apple watch charger but then you see

00:40:35   it next to the Apple charger and then it looks weird in proportion it's just like a funny little

00:40:39   thing. Yeah well I'll be used to it though that's the that's the funny thing is in a year it'll be

00:40:45   like old hat but I love this this is one of the quirks about Apple product releases that I really

00:40:49   love which is that Apple is happy to send you all of these accessories in advance of you actually

00:40:56   having the product. Get them out of here we don't even want them you know. Yeah this isn't nobody's

00:41:00   nobody's waiting anticipating this we can just shoot these out now and not worry about it.

00:41:05   I discovered when pre-ordering a phone I'll talk about it later the Apple would only let you order

00:41:12   two MagSafe chargers at once and I tried to order three I think just like what two for home one for

00:41:21   the studio just like kitting out everywhere with these things right and it meant that like the

00:41:26   web the store kept erroring out on me which means that we have to wait a little bit longer for us

00:41:31   but it was just an interesting thing Apple would only let you order two of them at one time.

00:41:35   Just don't want to don't want to run out. I guess. People are going to want them. I guess.

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00:42:53   show and RelayFM. Okay benchmarks for the iPhone 12 Pro have been surfacing. Geekbench scores have

00:43:03   been popping up around the web as they tend to do and it's exactly what we thought right there's

00:43:07   about 20 to 25 speed improvement over the A13 bionic. Yeah it's faster in line with previous

00:43:17   updates. Yeah I really think that the story here is the neural engine which does obviously doesn't

00:43:25   show up at the benchmarks. You know like the increase to the neural engine you know when we

00:43:30   spoke to Tim Millet it really seemed like that was what he was seen to be focused on and then

00:43:36   when I look at all of the stuff that they're doing with camera processing that's where it really

00:43:41   feels like a lot of that time has been spent right it's making the neural stuff and the machine

00:43:46   learning stuff stronger and when you look at how the chip's broken up and how Apple showed it on

00:43:50   on the slides it really feels like that's where they're putting a lot of the emphasis. That was

00:43:57   definitely something that came up talking to Tim Millet right a couple episodes ago that neural

00:44:06   engine is a focus for them right now and it won't be forever right but there is definitely a feeling

00:44:12   now that a lot of features get better when you apply machine learning to them and that they can

00:44:20   gain a lot of extra like they make these incremental speed boosts with CPU and with you know multi-core

00:44:30   performance and things like that and then they can add cores and their their GPU performance

00:44:35   continues to improve which is great and it's not like they stopped but I definitely get the sense

00:44:40   that they've looked at the neural engine stuff and said well the place where we can make enormous

00:44:45   speed boosts is machine learning which is increasingly a part of the the bigger picture

00:44:51   and so that seems to be where they're they're putting a lot of their effort right now in terms

00:44:56   of you know it's a little like talking about Apple's finances where the CPU speed is the iPhone

00:45:04   sales or CPU and GPO it's the iPhone sales like it's the most important thing and you need to have

00:45:10   it but the machine learning stuff is like services revenue or wearables revenue where it's small

00:45:18   but that's where the the big action is right now because that's where there's opportunity for for

00:45:25   growth and who knows what the next big thing will be but I'd imagine that the software side at Apple

00:45:31   is looking at everything they do and saying how could this be done better with machine learning

00:45:35   like could we do this better now that we have access to the neural engine on on modern a series

00:45:42   chips yeah I was thinking about machine learning the other day and neural engines and all that kind

00:45:48   of stuff I know that the you know this is potentially a pie in the sky like thought but

00:45:54   there is so much that can be done in these areas because our computers are so stupid

00:46:01   and if companies really find ways to make them smarter like if that is a if that is an actual

00:46:08   future that companies like Apple can move to like that really does seem like an interesting thing

00:46:14   like you know when I say stupid it's like really Siri can only provide me with answers to basic

00:46:20   things right yeah and just the way that it does them is great but if I want to explain something

00:46:28   to my computer it doesn't want that right like it can't accept that and if we are able to continue

00:46:36   to move towards a future where I can have an actual conversation like as simple as hey

00:46:42   ahoy telephone what is my next event today and it says you have a doctor's appointment at four and

00:46:48   then I say can you change that to three o'clock and they're like okay let me just check with the

00:46:53   you know like actually have a backwards and forwards conversation with a computer like it's

00:46:58   an assistant like that is the future that these companies try to pretend like they have given us

00:47:04   now but it's not even nearly it right but like if that's something that we can move towards

00:47:11   like I want that and that I guess is why companies like Apple are investing so much of their time and

00:47:18   effort into these neural engines because the headroom there from where we are now to where

00:47:24   we could be is maybe higher in in this form of computing than any other type of computing that

00:47:30   we currently work at in the consumer space right if we're looking at speed of chips whatever like

00:47:36   they're faster than we need them to be now like no one's bumping up against the top end of a lot of

00:47:41   this stuff in consumer technology anymore right like graphics engines like seriously like come on

00:47:48   the best graphics that you will find in a computer in in games today typically tends to be in games

00:47:55   consoles well Apple's chips are as fast as Sony's right like all of this stuff is pretty standardized

00:48:02   and we see these big jumps right like there are big jumps in in computer gaming hardware at the

00:48:07   moment and great but like it doesn't really feel like there's much more we can go like much more

00:48:15   further we can go especially when you compare it to the smarts of computing and how much room there

00:48:22   still is left in that so it's just a random thought I had no I think I think it it's interesting to

00:48:28   think of what the empty space is I mean talking about chip design and neural engine I mean let's

00:48:33   talk about software in general one of the open fields where there it feels like there's enormous

00:48:40   room for growth is in these intelligent assistants and you know you got to do them anybody who lived

00:48:47   through the early days of the PC industry like computers were really bad for a really long time

00:48:51   and they eventually got to be pretty good this is the case we where our assistants right now

00:48:58   are varying degrees of bad but I would say they're all bad in the sense that none of them really can

00:49:04   do what we want them to do which is like you imagine Google are the best right and Google do

00:49:09   all of these things that are interesting but they're just gimmicks they're tricks right like

00:49:13   this one that they've they've just shown which I think is clever is you can have the Google Assistant

00:49:18   wait on hold for you on a call and it's detecting when there's music playing and then when a human

00:49:24   comes in you get notified and you can pick up the call that's really clever but that's not like

00:49:29   smart that's a thing that someone made it's not like right it got smarter so it could do that you

00:49:38   know what I mean like somebody was like we want to build this feature let's take the steps to build

00:49:43   that feature they're like little fun tricks and gimmicks that you can do with the powers of

00:49:48   computers but it's not smart it didn't do that and I understand that the people get concerned

00:49:56   about stuff like this but the computer didn't learn to do that and that's what we want to be

00:50:00   moving towards. Something in Federico's review actually to go back to that is about him getting

00:50:09   frustrated that there are all of these Siri intelligence offered things for like shortcuts

00:50:15   and they're never anything he wants to know and I was excited about the Siri widget that basically

00:50:23   is gonna put apps on your home screen but it's going to it's eight apps but it's eight apps that

00:50:30   it's it thinks you might want to see right now and that that lasted like an hour on my home screen

00:50:37   because it was never apps I wanted to see and so this is a case where smarter so machine learning

00:50:46   has proven to be really effective in certain areas right like it is really effective at scanning all

00:50:51   your photos and identifying tagging objects and stuff like that you can train it for stuff like

00:50:56   that but there is this other aspect of it which is you know can it be better at it can can my device

00:51:02   be better at intuiting what I want and what I'm trying to do and can our voice assistants be

00:51:07   better and all these other aspects of it and that that seems to be where it's it's kind of empty so

00:51:13   there there are and whether ultimately it's the neural engine that helps make that better or

00:51:18   whether it's just they need to do a better job in the cloud of programming smart assistants I don't

00:51:23   know but it feels like an empty hole and yes I will grant you that Siri is is deeper in that hole

00:51:31   that's empty I don't know what that means it Siri's further down but they're all bad I was

00:51:38   arguing with my Amazon Echo based product the other day they're all bad and it's a place that

00:51:45   I would like for them to get better and that's not just for voice assistants but it's also for

00:51:49   like on device like I would really like like you know Apple has this feature in the Apple watch

00:51:54   that they introduced a couple years ago that is automatically sensing when you you stop and start

00:52:01   a workout without actually choosing the workout start and stop and I it still doesn't work right

00:52:09   for me like I'll walk up a steep hill for a long time and nothing and then it will suddenly 25

00:52:15   minutes in it'll be like oh are you walking yeah I'm yeah I've been walking for quite a while now

00:52:22   and I've also had it where I've stopped to talk this happened yesterday I stopped on a trail

00:52:27   while we were hiking to talk to a friend and who is running the other way and we stopped there and

00:52:34   chatted for five minutes just standing there and at no point did my watch tap me and say

00:52:42   are you do you want to pause now are you done with your workout so then we continue walking

00:52:47   and five minutes later while we're walking it says oh do you want to pause now like what what are you

00:52:52   seeing now and and it's just one of those things that like that's a feature Apple thought was good

00:52:57   enough to put in the device and it still can't intuit based on what its various sensors are

00:53:04   telling it that I'm doing as a as a human being and like I want all my devices to be way better

00:53:09   at that like way better at intuiting my behavior based on their sensors and this is you know it

00:53:16   goes way beyond telling me whether I've stood or not like it's and this is a this is a place where

00:53:21   we could do some amazing things especially with wearables but with all the sensors we got in our

00:53:24   phones there's a lot of really intelligent deduction that could be done but it's just not there yet

00:53:30   so moving on the junk group wrote great article which I saw you linking to as well I know that you

00:53:38   it was it's full of lots of little interesting details there yeah Gruber does a good job but

00:53:43   this is like I think he outdid himself I think this is a very good useful clear article about

00:53:50   what is up with the iPhones in terms of price and in terms of the especially the camera functionality

00:53:58   yeah and it's worth reading for those two things and we're not going to go too actually really into

00:54:02   detail or about the confounding camera stuff because I know I'm just going to tie myself up

00:54:06   in knots again so it's worth reading this article but there are a couple of things I want to pull

00:54:10   out one is first comparing like-to-like models year over year the regular iPhone 12 is 130

00:54:16   more expensive than the iPhone 11 so something that it didn't really dawn on me until I read this

00:54:21   uh the iPhone starts at the same price that it started out before but that's the mini now

00:54:28   yeah this is this is one of those things that I think we got swept up in the in the details of the

00:54:34   products last week and missed and I really appreciate a Gruber breaking it down and he

00:54:39   also broke it down with the 30 rolled in because he thinks that the 30 discount thing is is bogus

00:54:45   and I think he's right even though most customers in the U.S. will get it with the 30 discount

00:54:50   and you know his point is it's a price increase whether you want to say it's a hundred dollars or

00:54:54   130 this is actually a lot like what happened with the iPhone 10 which is they brought a product line

00:55:01   to OLED and the price went up and it's not necessarily surprising if you think about it

00:55:06   that that way but if you were shopping for an iPhone 11 last year and then you look at the 12

00:55:13   this year it's a hundred dollars more 130 more depending and the mini is the price of of what the

00:55:21   11 was last year and that's just those those products are more expensive so the the price

00:55:28   to buy into the flagship line only went up thirty dollars and if you're on a major carrier it really

00:55:34   didn't go up but that's the mini and if you want the larger phone it's it's a hundred dollars more

00:55:40   so this is this is a a creeping up apple went a couple of years without necessarily doing the

00:55:45   the creeping up in price thing but here we are they they did it this year yeah what they but

00:55:51   what they did do which was they tried to do everything they could to make it look like the

00:55:56   price hadn't changed which is fine like fine i'm not i'm not this isn't a big complaint from me but

00:56:01   that is what they've done here like the prices had to go up clearly for what they were putting in it

00:56:06   we know this from OLED OLED is more expensive okay um but they tried their best to maintain

00:56:12   the price that they had and they did a couple of things to do that they got rid of chargers they

00:56:17   got rid of airpods they made it cheaper to ship these phones because they can ship more of them

00:56:21   in the same containers there is so many things that went into keeping the prices even relatively

00:56:27   consistent right so like the phone still starts the line still starts at 699 which is with the

00:56:32   mini and it also included asking carriers to help them right like they did everything they could to

00:56:40   get it to that price right and another quote not including a power adapter in the box also clearly

00:56:47   nudges people towards spending the 39 for the new magsafe charger in the same way that removing the

00:56:52   headphone jack nudged people towards buying airpods i thought this was really insightful

00:56:57   um that like not that it's the reason but it helps right and it's similar it's like

00:57:02   they got rid of uh the headphone jack for a bunch of reasons i'm sure but one of them was

00:57:08   definitely because they could push people towards um initially beats and then airpods

00:57:14   and it's probably a similar thing here where now they have this new uh charging technology that

00:57:20   they're happy with and they want to push people towards that so by getting rid of the power

00:57:25   adapters people go to the store to buy a power adapter maybe and they maybe pick up this one

00:57:30   instead right even though the magsafe charger doesn't come with a power brick either but

00:57:35   nevertheless um i wanted to ask if you had uh any more thoughts yourself uh on the iphone line i

00:57:43   know that you've been writing a bunch of stuff about it this week have any more kind of considerations

00:57:47   solidified for you well i think the big thing so i wrote a piece at macworld that was about

00:57:52   a dilemma that i think a lot of people are gonna have and i feel it but i think that there are a

00:57:57   bunch of people who feel it more acutely than me and it's the people who have been frustrated at

00:58:01   the size of apple's phones getting creeping up getting bigger over time that the from from the

00:58:06   five line to the six line and then from the six the six family uh six seven eight to the ten and

00:58:15   the screen on the 12 pro is larger than the screen on the 11 pro right so it's this feeling of like

00:58:23   it continues to creep in my macworld column i said it's that you know it's the frog in the in

00:58:29   the pot of water like you you it just keeps getting warmer and warmer but if you don't like

00:58:35   a larger phone and you prefer a smaller phone um how far will apple push you and so i think with

00:58:42   the existence of the mini you now have a flagship phone that is noticeably smaller um smaller in

00:58:49   hand especially because these these screens are now pushed so close to the edges that it's mostly

00:58:55   about uh what you really need to do is think about the size of it holding it in your hand um and

00:59:01   because that's usually what people feel it's in their hand or in their pocket right um and and so

00:59:07   i've been thinking about that what i didn't really think about that i think is also worth noting here

00:59:13   is so first the 12 pro from the 11 pro although the screen is larger the 12 pro is actually not

00:59:22   physically that much larger it's about a tenth of an inch taller and 0.01 inches wider so it's

00:59:30   essentially in your hand the same it's just slightly taller and the screen is bigger because

00:59:37   you measure on the diagonal and so a small change can end up being a larger change on the diagonal

00:59:42   what i neglected to consider is the fact that the iphone 12 is the same physical size as the 12 pro

00:59:56   whereas the 11 was like the 10r it's bigger a bigger phone and so you had if you did a small

01:00:04   medium large it was it was 11 pro and then 11 and then 11 pro max it's not the case this time they're

01:00:12   basically the same phone so the truth is if you're somebody who has a 10 uh class phone and you're

01:00:18   looking to upgrade your phone you have a bunch of choices because you could you have two phones that

01:00:25   are essentially the same size as the phone that you've got the 12 and the 12 pro and they have

01:00:31   different features and the screens aren't exactly identical i think but they're but they are in the

01:00:37   hand they're the same um and then you've got the mini which is way smaller so i just i think that's

01:00:46   really interesting that that um i kept in my mind kind of aligning the 12 with the 11 as a larger

01:00:54   cheaper phone and in truth it is no it is neither right it's what's cheaper but it's more expensive

01:01:00   than the 11 the 12 is and it's smaller than the 11 which i think the price makes it complicated but

01:01:09   the size thing i feel like maybe makes it a little bit more of a mainstream phone that it's about the

01:01:12   same size it's not this kind of inexplicably larger yet cheaper phone because that's a little bit of a

01:01:18   variation for apple but um but the mini then is the obvious small one so i think i think there's

01:01:24   a real question here and that that there's some people are going to leap for the mini because

01:01:26   it's like i i the 10 size is already too large the eight size is too large i want to go down the mini

01:01:32   lets me do that great then there's everybody else who's like either on a you know six seven eight

01:01:38   or went to the 10 10s 11 somewhere in there 11 pro i mean and they look at the 12 and the 12 pro and

01:01:47   say these are essentially the same size so which one do i want and that's an interesting buying

01:01:53   question too which is 12 or 12 pro because the 12 is cheaper um not as cheap as you might think

01:02:03   like at 128 gigs the 12 thank you john gruber for your chart uh at 128 gigs of storage the 12 is

01:02:09   only 120 dollars i guess 150 dollars if you've got the good carrier cheaper than the 12 pro they're

01:02:17   closer it's just that you can cut it back to 64 and get it for even cheaper so i think it's really

01:02:23   i think those are the things that i find the most fascinating you big phone people are just like

01:02:27   well promax it's just promax and like i get it that's actually kind of the easiest decision

01:02:32   but otherwise you've got this very interesting two almost identical phones in terms of size but

01:02:37   one has pro features and one doesn't and then you've got the mini and the question do you go

01:02:42   down in size how much has the ever-increasing flagship iphone size bothered you do you want to

01:02:49   go all the way back or do you pick up that mini and think oh i i guess i got used to the big phone

01:02:55   i'll just stick with the i'll just stick with the 12 or 12 pro one of the things that i think we are

01:03:02   yet to see and i'm really intrigued to see how this feels and shakes out of most people is yes

01:03:08   the physical sizes haven't changed that much but the screens have gotten bigger and what does that

01:03:12   feel like right like i get i totally get i'm completely on board with what you're saying right

01:03:18   like these phones are bigger but they're not bigger um but the screens are bigger and the

01:03:24   screens are proportionally much larger than the physical size changes have been right um and also

01:03:30   the idea of like well the screens are stretching out right because the sides are flat they're not

01:03:36   rounded anymore um and so i think it is a thing to that's worth considering because whilst your phone

01:03:42   might not be physically larger it will be more tricky potentially for you to reach across the

01:03:47   screen so i'm i'm intrigued to see how these screen size changes actually feel in use a lot

01:03:56   of ergonomic issues that we're going to have to explore and and having kind of batted down the

01:04:02   concern about it getting taller the 12 and 12 pro getting taller than the 11 pro and saying well it's

01:04:11   really about how it fits in your hand that's true to a point right but one of the my biggest problem

01:04:17   honestly with iphone ergonomics right now on the 11 pro that i have is not the width of the phone

01:04:23   at all it's the fact that i can't comfortably reach anything that's up at the top of the screen

01:04:27   yeah um and i when i think about the mini i think it's not just going to be narrower it's also going

01:04:36   to be shorter and that is uh interesting to me i wonder how that's gonna that's gonna feel so

01:04:43   i don't know it ergonomics are important and we talk a lot about prices and 5g radios and

01:04:52   processors and neural engines and all of that sort of techy stuff but one of the very important

01:04:59   things when it comes to a lot of these products especially a phone is the ergonomics it's like

01:05:04   how does it feel in your hand and how does it feel tapping on the screen and is it also out there

01:05:11   that we don't really know yet is is it slippery like a bar of soap or does it feel more stable in

01:05:17   your hand which i i have high hopes that it will i am happy to report that my favorite fact about

01:05:23   iphone about ios and ipads and iphone product sizing is still in effect that the 2018 slash

01:05:30   2020 ipad pro is still the thinnest device apple has ever made the all of the phones are 7.4

01:05:41   millimeters thick all of them all four which is interesting to me that even the mini is as thick

01:05:47   as the pro i just find that intriguing it's weird to me that they've decided to keep that thickness

01:05:54   so so consistent and the ipad pro is 5.9 millimeters thick the new ipad air is 6.1 so even

01:06:01   the ipad air is a little bit thicker than the ipad pro it's one of my favorite facts it's one that i

01:06:07   say every now and then and people never believe it and then they have to go check it themselves

01:06:11   because it does seem so uh so surprising really that like you know like the ipad pro is thinner

01:06:18   than the ipod touch ever was even so really really peculiar um for me uh i've been doing some

01:06:26   reflecting on last week i feel like the presentation last week itself left me frustrated but that was

01:06:36   just in the presentation on reflecting about the devices themselves i am actually really excited

01:06:43   about the iphone 12 line i think that overall this is a very good upgrade because the design

01:06:51   looks great and i mean very excited to see what that looks like to hold it um and to see what the

01:06:56   new colors are like i like that there's more choice you know like the inclusion of the mini

01:07:02   really is fantastic because uh apple finally have created a phone which is of top tier quality

01:07:11   and a size that people thought was gone right like when when the se came out and it was it was

01:07:18   the new se and it was just an iphone 8 you know i think we all just thought that that that small

01:07:25   phone could have been gone forever so i'm really pleased to see that apple have made a small

01:07:30   modern phone the leaps in camera performance both in software and hardware are very intriguing to

01:07:36   me especially on the pro max i'm really looking forward to and intrigued about what images look

01:07:45   like from that phone right like what is it actually going to look like and feel like in

01:07:50   in daily use and also just the magsafe stuff is really exciting to me like new options for

01:07:57   accessories people can be creative again um i'm excited about that you know like i coming back

01:08:02   from the beginning of the show i'm excited about the possibility of having a pop socket that i

01:08:07   could just take off and then put my phone on a wireless charger which is just not something

01:08:11   that i've been able to do uh before so i i just wanted to say that like i felt like i was

01:08:17   frustrated after the event because it was short and confusing in some places and some of the way

01:08:23   that apple decided to talk about 5g and stuff was quite frustrating to me um especially because you

01:08:31   know not being in the uk like it so not being in the us it like really irked me um like how american

01:08:40   focused the presentation was so yeah the presentation annoyed me but i'm super excited

01:08:45   about the devices themselves and speaking of which uh i referenced earlier ordering so we ordered a

01:08:53   dnr a 12 pro so i will have a new phone to play around with um i will be kind of stealing it

01:09:03   every now and then to see how it feels and we'll be doing some camera tests and stuff so on next

01:09:07   week's episode uh i will at least i have will have some experience of a 12 pro so i'm excited about

01:09:14   that we're actually picking it up at a store jason so i'll talk about what that process is like to go

01:09:20   to one of the biggest apple stores in the world on iphone launch day in 2020 to pick up a phone

01:09:25   i'm expecting that to be somewhat of an experience in and of itself so there we go excited for next

01:09:33   week you get to brave the apple store and see what that process is like and i'm curious because you

01:09:38   know i went through it for my thing but my thing was buying a watch band so it didn't really matter

01:09:43   so much i haven't ordered anything just to be clear again i haven't ordered anything but i'm

01:09:48   hopeful that i'm going to get to try all this stuff uh for review yeah that'd be cool yeah

01:09:52   hopefully hopefully both of us will have had some experience with the 12 or 12 pro um by our next

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01:12:22   shall we do some hashtag ask upgrade questions jason snell

01:12:27   sure that sounds great all right our first question this time comes from brent oh nice

01:12:33   brent says if you had to replace your 11-inch ipad pro today or i know you have a 12-inch but let's

01:12:40   just imagine a situation in which you have an 11-inch i do would you buy uh another ipad pro

01:12:47   or would you get the new ipad air now i want to answer this question in two different ways jason

01:12:54   if i can okay yes if i was replacing my ipad pro i would get another ipad pro because i am used to

01:13:04   face id if i did not have an ipad pro i would get the ipad air most likely like i would be more

01:13:16   willing to to look at that because i wouldn't be used to something i think i would uh get annoyed

01:13:24   um with uh like when i use my ipad mini that i have here at the studio i always forget that

01:13:30   i need to use touch id on it and it frustrates me a little bit compared to my ipad pro so that would

01:13:36   be that would be difficult for me imagine tapping on the space bar on the keyboard and then realizing

01:13:42   you have to reach up and oh and yeah put your finger on the touch id that see this is the thing

01:13:47   it's like that's just one of those things that i think once you're used to it it would get it would

01:13:50   be too frustrating but if i wasn't used to it then i maybe more would more consider it because the

01:13:56   ipad pro is a super cool device right um and it's really and you're um you're uh losing promotion

01:14:05   you're losing some camera stuff it's it's real close right but the the price also again um is

01:14:15   not as wide a gap as you might expect if you're not looking at the base model with the smallest

01:14:20   amount of storage so i think i think most people who have an ipad pro if they had to replace it

01:14:26   would probably be better off replacing it with an ipad pro um and not missing those features but you

01:14:31   know we're all waiting for the other shoe to drop right and for there to be a new ipad pro yeah

01:14:35   but if you're coming from nothing like from from none of these types of ipads

01:14:39   the ipad here is a very very intriguing prospect yeah tony asks do you think that we will have

01:14:47   s model phones in the future or is that gone now right because we went from 11 to 12.

01:14:53   what do you think yeah i it's a great question because we've always said i don't believe that

01:15:03   the iphone's going to be there's going to be an iphone 19 right and yet here we are at the iphone

01:15:08   12 so that has kept happening also next time is 13 which some people have superstitions about

01:15:16   although there was an ios 13 and it was yeah and look how that went it was a disaster we've made

01:15:21   this i made this exact same joke about three weeks ago i don't know i feel like the future of apple

01:15:27   product names is mysterious um and so perhaps they will i doubt it i wouldn't bet on it

01:15:36   i feel like it's clearer to just increment the numbers but who knows because apple has changed

01:15:46   its its number game a lot and it still does feel like an iphone 19 is unlikely but at the same time

01:15:56   what else are they going to do like they've got they now have product name slots and the number

01:16:00   is essentially just instead of a year they give it a number so that you know which version it is

01:16:05   for which year but it feels like they're settling into a place where there's going to be number

01:16:12   number pro number pro max and number mini now and then you just keep incrementing the number in a way

01:16:18   that kind of doesn't matter it's just the new iphone but you gotta call it something so if i

01:16:22   had to bet money on i mean ever is a is a tough one especially about but i think because it's

01:16:29   so bananas right because they keep changing it but right now i think that apple probably is is uh

01:16:35   happy to just keep incrementing the number for a long time so i think that the pro max name

01:16:45   has removed the ability for them to include s because iphone 12s pro max is too much it's too

01:16:52   much oh my god it's too much right there's too many syllables in there so i think that you're

01:16:58   right right like they now have names and they just did it they just did it right this could easily be

01:17:03   the 11s and it's not it's the 12 and why would you not increment the number and make it seem like a

01:17:07   bigger update to get people more excited the s is almost like a uh half-hearted upgrade in terms of

01:17:15   naming so i wouldn't do it and you're right the pro max makes it even worse napali asks do you know

01:17:23   if the new ceramic glass is more scratch resistant apple just mentions brake resistance and durability

01:17:30   do you think we could end up with more scratches this is an interesting question i i'm

01:17:37   unclear on that because that that definitely is something that has come up before that if you

01:17:42   if you try to prevent shattering you may end up being more uh scratch scratchy i don't know i

01:17:50   mean what i'll say is like i don't know the proper is a ceramic very much but i've been wearing a

01:17:56   ceramic apple watch on and off for over a year and i cannot see a scratch on it anywhere so

01:18:04   i don't know i don't know but i am intrigued uh i'm also intrigued for the people that try to

01:18:13   break their phones you know i i do not condone the destruction of devices no but for scientific

01:18:19   purposes i am interested to know right like if people do side-by-side drop tests um they're

01:18:27   difficult to conduct as well because it's like you can't do it scientifically but i am intrigued to

01:18:32   see teardowns and and durability tests and stuff of this new glass like how much more um resistant

01:18:42   is it actually we'll find out so uh witter charm in the chat says that it's actually more they're

01:18:48   claiming more scratch and brake resistant so i don't know we'll see where did they claim that

01:18:55   like in the in the thing itself they just said it was more durable so i don't know all right i hope

01:19:01   so chris asks if apple had added a fingerprint sensor in the power button to the iphone how would

01:19:08   they manage it given that most people use cases they have a cutout for the kit for the uh for the

01:19:14   button i just i don't think how do they manage it with a home button before with touch id like you

01:19:21   have a cutout for the touch id sensor um my thought was they could just end up with a folio case for

01:19:27   the iphone like a folio case style like they do with the ipad and it and it actually leaves the

01:19:33   sides exposed um to a to a degree yeah i don't know but i think the easiest situations you just

01:19:41   do a cutout like this is how other uh phones that phones do exist in the world with with uh

01:19:49   fingerprint sensors in the lock buttons right this is a very normal thing on android phones

01:19:56   and there's just a cutout in that part of the case simple like it's it's it's done uh last question

01:20:04   today comes from zach zach says i am very tempted by the 12 mini being a person who enjoys smaller

01:20:11   phones but the switch from touch id to face id is giving me some pause i'm currently on the newer se

01:20:17   overall what are your experiences with the speed convenience and usefulness of face id

01:20:22   versus touch id especially during covid so i love face id i do i i prefer it i love having it on my

01:20:30   ipads especially um with wearing a mask outside in public it's terrible it's terrible it's terrible

01:20:37   and so i i don't really know what to say here other than if you're out and about a lot wearing a mask

01:20:46   um it's not a good experience and you probably need to go to a low security password because

01:20:52   you'll you're going to be endlessly locking and unlocking your phone i don't go out a lot so it

01:20:58   doesn't really bother me that much and it's super convenient when i'm unlocking it in the house and

01:21:03   not wearing a mask but when i'm out and i'm trying to like shop and check my shopping list on my

01:21:10   iphone and i'm wearing a mask every single suddenly these invisible interactions that

01:21:16   face id enables that are so great are all gone and i'm and i'm inputting my password every and

01:21:26   it turns out i lock and unlock my phone all the time when i'm at the store and i don't notice it

01:21:32   because it's face id and then you wear a mask and suddenly you see all those interactions and yeah

01:21:39   you can change to a simple password you could turn off uh screen lock and try not to turn off your

01:21:47   phone while you're in the store i've done that it's not great so i i honestly don't know what

01:21:55   to say about this um you are gonna have to adapt if you live in a cold climate you're gonna be

01:22:00   wearing gloves in the winter anyway um which is bad for touch id so i don't know it it all depends

01:22:09   on your circumstance and how you use your device but there is no doubt that if you're out and about

01:22:14   uh in a in a public location where masks are being worn you are gonna have uh have to adapt how you

01:22:23   use your iphone versus um you know using an easily more easily uh available biometric like touch id

01:22:32   or face id without a mask yeah yeah like i like face id in most instances it is faster and like

01:22:43   so basically before covered it was like easy for me like and the only thing that i had an issue with

01:22:48   was when uh it was like more frustrating for me to touch in in public transport but then apple

01:22:56   added the express card thing where you can set a card to your phone and you don't have to use any

01:23:03   authentication for it you just touch it by the reader and it goes it's super easy because it

01:23:07   used to be before you wouldn't even need to bring the the the phone up to your face it's just done

01:23:13   but with me wearing face masks now it is more annoying but

01:23:19   i guess you kind of just have to make that decision right like it's as you said if you

01:23:25   if you do wear gloves in the winter and realize that you're not that doesn't work for you then

01:23:29   you're used to this idea just clothing in some way restricts the biometrics this is not a new thing

01:23:37   but we're focusing on it more now because there's a new way for most people that this is happening so

01:23:44   this isn't a clear answer because really this has to be your own decision but if you are asking for

01:23:50   our experiences these are those i think we both prefer face id to touch id in most situations

01:23:56   but would still like touch id to come back and have both if apple said to me you can replace

01:24:01   touch id with face id i wouldn't do it because when i'm at home or when i'm somewhere where

01:24:06   i'm not wearing a mask or whatever face id is superior to touch id so i wouldn't want to change

01:24:11   so that's where i am a bit if you would like to send in a question to help us close out

01:24:18   the show you can always send out a tweet with the hashtag ask upgrade or in the relay fm members

01:24:24   discord use question mark ask upgrade send me a question that way you can also help us open the

01:24:29   show with a hashtag snow talk question i'm sure you can understand how you need to do that given

01:24:34   what i've just told you if you'd like to find jason online go to sixcolors.com and he is at

01:24:39   jsnell j-s-n-e-double-l i am at i mike i m-y-k-e thank you to smile pingdom and express vpn for

01:24:46   their support of this show and thank you to the people that support us directly our upgrading

01:24:52   members people that subscribe to upgrade plus if you would like to get upgrade with no ads and

01:24:57   with additional content just go to get upgrade plus.com where you can sign up today and thank

01:25:03   you so much if you do that we'll be back next time until then say goodbye jason snow goodbye mike

01:25:09   early