00:00:08 ◼ ► From Real AFM, this is Upgrade episode 322. Today's show is brought to you by Text Expander from SMILE,
00:00:16 ◼ ► ExpressVPN and Pingdom. My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by Jason Snell. Hi Jason Snell.
00:00:23 ◼ ► Hello Myke Hurley. This is my, I don't know why the vocal embodiment of this is an episode full
00:00:31 ◼ ► of follow-up and catch-up came out that way, but that was what I was going for when I said that.
00:00:47 ◼ ► go and watch Taskmaster. Yeah. If you're in the US, it's on YouTube. If you're in the UK,
00:00:51 ◼ ► you can get it in UK TV Play for free. Super awesome. It's one of my favorite finds of the
00:00:58 ◼ ► entire year, but through Jason Snell, of course, and Jason's recommendation. It's just a wonderful,
00:01:03 ◼ ► wonderful fun TV show. I have a #SnellTalk question for you from Hunter. Jason, is there
00:01:09 ◼ ► an iPhone color that you wish Apple would have announced last week? Well, blue is my favorite
00:01:21 ◼ ► So what's left? Orange. I love that coral iPhone XR. An orange iPhone would be, I guess,
00:01:35 ◼ ► I actually agree. I knew you were going to say orange and orange was also what I wanted too.
00:01:44 ◼ ► Yeah. I mean, this is the thing of like, actually, I wouldn't mind it if Apple stopped using all the
00:01:57 ◼ ► They like that that we get in the regular line. Like they don't have to look like they're made
00:02:02 ◼ ► of metal or whatever it is you do, right? Like let's shake it up a bit, but nevertheless.
00:02:07 ◼ ► So today is an episode full of catch up because I think unlike, this feels like unlike most
00:02:15 ◼ ► iPhone events, there was a lot of information that came out in the days after. And I wanted to
00:02:22 ◼ ► go through it. I think this is akin to one of our posts, like the week after WWDC kind of episodes,
00:02:28 ◼ ► where so much happened like during the event and so much was learned afterward that we spend the
00:02:34 ◼ ► next week kind of like following up all the things that happened the previous week. And that feels
00:02:41 ◼ ► like that's what we need to do this time. And I think this came out in the last episode,
00:02:44 ◼ ► especially for me. I was very confused and found it all very frustrating that there was a bunch of
00:02:48 ◼ ► information that I knew was out there, but I couldn't disseminate quick enough for the show.
00:02:54 ◼ ► But now we've been able to do that and we will provide a service to you, the listener, to give
00:02:58 ◼ ► you all of the information. But even in an episode full of follow-up, we still have a distinct
00:03:04 ◼ ► follow-up section, which we will now begin. PopSockets will be making MagSafe compatible
00:03:09 ◼ ► PopSockets in the future. This was something that came out very quickly. This is obviously taking
00:03:15 ◼ ► advantage of the new MagSafe system. I'm very intrigued to see what they do here. I can't
00:03:21 ◼ ► imagine a PopSocket like how PopSockets currently work, working on this, but I have yet myself to be
00:03:28 ◼ ► able to understand how strong that magnet is. But I'm just pleased that they are exploring it
00:03:38 ◼ ► T-Mobile and Sprint now have equal iPhone pricing with Verizon and AT&T. So you may remember,
00:03:57 ◼ ► when iPhone pre-orders began, they equalized—this is for the 12 and the 12 mini—they equalized with
00:04:04 ◼ ► AT&T and Verizon, meaning that if you're in the U.S. and on one of the four major carriers,
00:04:10 ◼ ► you get that price that ends in a 99. However, if you want an unlocked SIM-free phone, for example,
00:04:19 ◼ ► if you're using an alternate carrier, guess what? You have to pay a price that ends in a 29,
00:04:26 ◼ ► if you're buying a 12 or 12 mini. So because this is the—we'll talk about iPhone pricing a lot more
00:04:32 ◼ ► later, but this is just the recognition that sometimes a 699 phone is actually a 729 phone.
00:04:40 ◼ ► MATT: Yeah, and I don't know why there was ever a disparity. It doesn't make sense to me.
00:04:53 ◼ ► we don't want to do—" Like, it's just weird to me. Like, I don't get it. But nevertheless.
00:04:57 ◼ ► iPad Air pre-orders are finally open, so when the iPhone 12 and 12 Pro went on pre-order on Friday,
00:05:05 ◼ ► the iPad Air also mysteriously went to pre-order as well. This was the device announced in the
00:05:19 ◼ ► So, yep, that's it. This is the product that was unveiled at its own event in—I mean, shared,
00:05:27 ◼ ► but its own event in September will be taken—the pre-orders were taken, and the shipping will take
00:05:33 ◼ ► place, same time as the October event products, the 12 and 12 Pro. Weird. But that's 2020. Apple
00:05:43 ◼ ► announced the iPad Air last month but wants it to ship alongside its fellow A14-bearing products,
00:06:01 ◼ ► if Apple keep to the usual schedules. I don't know if anything will change here. I mean,
00:06:07 ◼ ► obviously, this is the first time that Apple have, I guess, seeded review units of iPhones
00:06:13 ◼ ► without there ever being in-person briefings. So, I'm intrigued to see if and how it changes.
00:06:21 ◼ ► >> Right. But that's happened with other products. I mean, that's happened with other products, too.
00:06:24 ◼ ► >> Yeah, but the iPhone is a different beast. I could imagine—I don't know. I really do not
00:06:28 ◼ ► know the answer to this question. But I could imagine two embargoes this week, like one for
00:06:38 ◼ ► >> Well, they've done that before, and they could do that again. I think I've seen Apple adapt this
00:06:47 ◼ ► year, and I've had multiple examples of Apple shipping me a product, a piece of hardware,
00:06:57 ◼ ► for a review. In the old days, they probably would have insisted on an in-person briefing,
00:07:04 ◼ ► but not always. Sometimes that doesn't happen. You're right, not for the iPhone, but the iPhone
00:07:09 ◼ ► is different. But anyway, it's not that far off the playbook. Like, that iMac that came out,
00:07:17 ◼ ► I mean, I literally was told, "We have a hardware announcement. You will be receiving the hardware.
00:07:23 ◼ ► Essentially, don't open the box until we talk to you." So, they have been changing their thing.
00:07:30 ◼ ► So, I imagine that all of the—and I'm not one of these people—but that all the iPhone 12
00:07:35 ◼ ► reviewers who are in that first wave of embargo drops will have had phones since last week
00:07:43 ◼ ► sometime, and will be writing about them and doing their videos and all those things later on this
00:07:49 ◼ ► week. >> Okay. I mean, that would make sense based on the way that things have gone in the past. But
00:07:56 ◼ ► it's just, you know, and I think it's not wild to wonder if things will be the same this time around.
00:08:03 ◼ ► >> You know, the one that made me laugh was Becky Worley, who used to work at Tech TV. I remember
00:08:10 ◼ ► her from back when she was a producer on Call for Help. She is the tech correspondent for
00:08:17 ◼ ► Good Morning America on the ABC network here in the U.S. And she had iPhone 12 and 12 Pro
00:08:32 ◼ ► who's got that stuff can admit that they have it. But for TV, they're like, "Yeah, you can,
00:08:37 ◼ ► you know, you can show them. Don't talk about using them, but just you can show them. We'll
00:08:41 ◼ ► let you show them very specifically to her." And that makes me laugh. But they're trying stuff.
00:08:46 ◼ ► They're trying different stuff. Good for them. >> Yeah, that was definitely different. I noticed
00:08:49 ◼ ► she had the wallet. There's a little video. I'll put a link in the show. She had the wallet. And it
00:08:53 ◼ ► was funny because she didn't attach it properly. She's like presenting and it was kind of like
00:09:01 ◼ ► skew with. This is kind of like a funny thing where it's like, you know, someone at Apple's
00:09:05 ◼ ► like, "Ah, God, no." Right? Like it's the first time anyone's ever seen the wallet attached to
00:09:10 ◼ ► the phone. And she just like, she ended up moving it and doing it correctly. But it was just like
00:09:15 ◼ ► one of those fun little things. And also I want to give a shout out, follow out to Federico
00:09:19 ◼ ► Vitticci's iOS 14 review. It is now out. I am multiple chapters in and I'm already still
00:09:27 ◼ ► learning things and getting just as much value out of Federico's incredible work as always. If
00:09:31 ◼ ► you have not checked it out and you have, even a passing interest in iOS and iPadOS is worth going
00:09:37 ◼ ► and perusing. Even if you just jump around to your favorite chapters, Federico has done a fantastic
00:09:42 ◼ ► job as always. So I urge the gradients to go check it out. >> So good. >> Some upstream headlines.
00:09:48 ◼ ► Jason, this is all Apple TV related today. >> Lots of stuff happening. Yeah. >> Bruce Springsteen has
00:09:55 ◼ ► a documentary coming to Apple TV+ in October. It is a behind the scenes of the first performance of
00:10:04 ◼ ► Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band in 35 years. It was a live performance that they did
00:10:09 ◼ ► and they made a documentary about it. And that's going to be on Apple TV+. >> Yeah. I think that's
00:10:15 ◼ ► later this week because he's got a, they're dropping an album and then there's this Apple TV+
00:10:20 ◼ ► thing that goes along with it. It's all part of the rollout. >> And it actually ties in because
00:10:24 ◼ ► now Apple are doing a kind of a celebration of this on the brand new Apple Music TV, which was
00:10:30 ◼ ► announced today. >> Yeah. Why didn't they shorten that to Apple MTV? Oh, they can't. But it is. >> I
00:10:36 ◼ ► want my Apple MTV. >> But I grew up in the 80s. It's MTV. Like they, the classic MTV, they are
00:10:45 ◼ ► streaming a live video channel that is music videos and other stuff like that live, just
00:10:55 ◼ ► streaming. Not on demand music videos. This is, think of that Beats, Beats One or whatever it's
00:11:00 ◼ ► called now, Apple Radio One. This is that for TV, except it's just music videos. >> I don't get this.
00:11:07 ◼ ► >> Interviews and stuff. >> I don't get it. >> It's an interesting idea. >> US only at the moment.
00:11:11 ◼ ► It's available in Apple Music on the, on the app and on the Apple TV. A quote to Variety, Apple
00:11:17 ◼ ► gave this exclusive to Variety. It says, "Exclusive new music videos and premieres, special curated
00:11:23 ◼ ► music video blocks and live shows and events as well as chart countdowns and guests." So there's
00:11:29 ◼ ► some stuff in there that makes sense to me. Live shows, events, chart countdowns even. But you've
00:11:36 ◼ ► got to assume that this kind of content is more focused towards a youth audience, right? Like
00:11:42 ◼ ► that's new music tends to be consumed by the young. Why would anybody put this on to see what
00:11:53 ◼ ► music videos are on when they can just go to YouTube and watch whatever they want? >> I don't
00:11:58 ◼ ► know. >> I don't get this. This is like the Beats One model again. >> Why would anybody do Beats One,
00:12:04 ◼ ► right? Why would anybody do that when they can just choose what music they want to play on demand
00:12:08 ◼ ► and play it? I don't know. >> Yeah, but I'm still not convinced that the let's listen to music part
00:12:13 ◼ ► of Beats One has worked. What worked with Beats One is the radio style shows that they have done
00:12:20 ◼ ► with notable individuals. >> Well, Myke, you've just described the evolution of MTV. >> Yeah. >> Which
00:12:27 ◼ ► is that MTV started as a random assortment of music videos and very quickly became shows
00:12:36 ◼ ► that were shows of music videos. And then it was sort of shows about musical genres. And then it
00:12:43 ◼ ► was shows that appeal to the same people who like music videos. And ultimately, after about 15 years,
00:12:49 ◼ ► literally just shows, just reality shows. But that was the evolution is I could turn on MTV. And
00:12:58 ◼ ► here's an admission. When I was a kid, I didn't have cable. So I, until I was a freshman in high
00:13:02 ◼ ► school, I never, I only saw MTV as recorded on videotape by friends. >> So you wanted your MTV,
00:13:09 ◼ ► then? >> I totally wanted my MTV and I didn't get it. And there were alternate ways to watch music
00:13:14 ◼ ► videos, but they were so sad. NBC had an hour on a Friday night called Friday Night Videos where they
00:13:20 ◼ ► just played music videos. And somebody like me who only had an antenna that was like, "I can see the
00:13:24 ◼ ► music videos now." And I distinctly remember what videos they played actually. Amazing. So MTV,
00:13:33 ◼ ► you'd flip it on and it might be Michael Jackson. It might be Madonna. It might be Chicago. It might
00:13:41 ◼ ► be Rush. It could be it. It could be Van Halen. It could be anybody. And then if you didn't like that
00:13:48 ◼ ► one, well, you just sit there and wait and see what happened next. And that was novel. But again,
00:13:55 ◼ ► I think people very rapidly discovered that, "Oh, what if we made appointment television where we
00:14:01 ◼ ► had a show that ran on Saturday that was just heavy metal and we put that on." And the people
00:14:06 ◼ ► gravitated toward that. So I don't know. This is fascinating to me. And maybe if there's an
00:14:17 ◼ ► it's interesting that Apple is dabbling in live, in streaming channels that are 24/7. I think that's
00:14:26 ◼ ► a cool idea. I think I mentioned this about Peacock. Peacock has a bunch of channels and
00:14:33 ◼ ► the channels are literally just stuff that's on Peacock, but they just play continually.
00:14:39 ◼ ► I think there is something in that. I think there is something in... I think Netflix has tried to do
00:14:47 ◼ ► this with the idea of, can you do a random play or something? It's like, is there a 30 Rock channel?
00:14:52 ◼ ► You could watch just random episodes of 30 Rock and see what comes up. I think maybe there's
00:14:56 ◼ ► something to that. You could do stuff like that, but this isn't that. This is just all music.
00:15:03 ◼ ► That exists. And I clicked play on it today before the show and the music video came up and I was
00:15:09 ◼ ► like, not interested. And then I closed it. And that was my entire experience with Apple.
00:15:14 ◼ ► I think what I like about this announcement, the thing that I do like about it, I think is it
00:15:27 ◼ ► Because I don't think Apple Music TV aligns with Apple's current streaming services direction.
00:15:38 ◼ ► It feels like an offshoot. You can definitely draw some lines, some red string to how it makes sense,
00:15:45 ◼ ► but it really is kind of out of left field, even the way they announced it, just like randomly on
00:15:50 ◼ ► a Monday to variety. It feels very much like something that that group wanted to do and they've
00:15:58 ◼ ► been able to go and do it. And I think I kind of like that because that's how good things are found.
00:16:04 ◼ ► I think I would also say this feels a little bit like an industry deal. A little bit where I think
00:16:15 ◼ ► some of the entertainment products that Apple comes out with are not necessarily motivated by
00:16:29 ◼ ► This smells to me like a product that was created because of some deal or relationship or something
00:16:39 ◼ ► that is being negotiated by Apple with music companies. Maybe even a condition of them getting
00:16:49 ◼ ► access to certain video content for Apple Music. That this was either invented by Apple as a
00:16:57 ◼ ► vehicle for that stuff or suggested to Apple by the music industry as something they wanted.
00:17:03 ◼ ► I don't know. That's just my... I could be wrong. And it could be that somebody inside Apple
00:17:07 ◼ ► can say, "Oh no, there's an audience for this and it's going to be successful and I'll tell you why."
00:17:12 ◼ ► And I'd love to hear that. But my gut feeling is that this is probably more about a larger deal,
00:17:26 ◼ ► Apple unlocks things that it actually wants and that it thinks its customers want. And this is
00:17:32 ◼ ► just an adjunct where it needs to exist because they want it to exist. So we'll give it to them,
00:17:48 ◼ ► the show has undergone significant rewrites to reflect COVID. We mentioned this before when they
00:17:53 ◼ ► said they'd stopped shooting. But I believe the report that I read suggests that they start
00:17:59 ◼ ► shooting today again on season two. - Yeah. And just for people who are wondering about
00:18:09 ◼ ► but they had a couple episodes left to go or something like that. And I'm not sure if they've
00:18:14 ◼ ► come back yet. I think they have. Yeah. I think that that happened already where they picked that
00:18:20 ◼ ► stuff up. But we're going to see some interesting... Talk about a challenge for the continuity people.
00:18:23 ◼ ► It's like, what was your hair like? Like trying to get it exactly right so that it doesn't seem
00:18:40 ◼ ► - Season two of "Dickinson" premieres on January 8th. This will be the first show from the original
00:18:47 ◼ ► set to... Well, it's the first to actually have an official launch date for a second season.
00:18:53 ◼ ► Could be the first one that actually broadcasts of a second season. And season three is
00:18:59 ◼ ► now in development after "Consume." - I wanted to mention that I am watching "Long Way Up,"
00:19:05 ◼ ► which we talked about here, which is the Ewan McGregor, Charlie Borman ride electric motorcycles
00:19:11 ◼ ► from the tip of South America to Los Angeles. So this is a documentary series. What's funny,
00:19:19 ◼ ► and we talked about this, what, last week, two weeks ago, that time has no meaning anymore,
00:19:24 ◼ ► but that they picked up the catalog content. So this has got the two previous series that they did
00:19:30 ◼ ► like 15 years ago, "Long Way Round" and "Long Way Down" were picked up and put on Apple TV.
00:19:37 ◼ ► And then this series was there. And I watched both of those series and I liked them. And I thought
00:19:41 ◼ ► they got better as they went because I thought the "Long Way Down" series had a much more of a
00:19:46 ◼ ► travelogue feel, whereas the first one, "Long Way Round" was very much like two guys deal with bad
00:19:51 ◼ ► roads and mechanical problems on their motorcycles. And the fact that they happened to be in Mongolia
00:19:56 ◼ ► was not as important as that their motorcycle broke or that there was a river they had to get
00:20:00 ◼ ► across. But they were shot in 2004 and 2007. And so this is my comment. This is why I wanted to
00:20:06 ◼ ► bring it up. To go from 2007 production values to 2020 production values, they shot this in 2019, but
00:20:14 ◼ ► the idea that like they're not... The first series, the cameras mounted on their motorcycle helmets
00:20:24 ◼ ► and the microphones that were in their helmets and stuff and all the stuff that they used for
00:20:29 ◼ ► shooting, like first off, it's all standard death and it's big. And cameras are so much better now.
00:20:38 ◼ ► If you think about 2006, 2007 to now, this show, "Long Way Up" is 4K HDR and looks amazing.
00:20:52 ◼ ► And it looks amazing. The fact that it follows for me, like literally the next day from watching
00:21:02 ◼ ► the episode that they shot in South Africa in 2007. Wow. I just wanted to say, I've only watched
00:21:10 ◼ ► the first episode of "Long Way Up," but from that, I just took away from it just how much
00:21:15 ◼ ► technology and camera technology in particular has advanced. Also in "Long Way Down," they're
00:21:21 ◼ ► very excited to have this Nokia phone that has GPS in it because it's 2006. And they're like,
00:21:27 ◼ ► "A GPS with a map on it. Let's check the map because Nokia is a sponsor. Let's check the map."
00:21:32 ◼ ► And we're just laughing at it because a couple of years later, that's all gone. The iPhone.
00:21:37 ◼ ► And suffice it to say, the Apple TV+ show, they have iPhones on their motorcycles. Shocker. I
00:21:42 ◼ ► know. Shocker. But I just love how much the tech has improved in terms of cameras that we went from
00:21:49 ◼ ► standard death on their previous show to 4K HDR. And not just like the big cameras that they shoot
00:21:56 ◼ ► from the vans and stuff, but the helmet-mounted stuff is tiny and spectacularly better in terms
00:22:03 ◼ ► of quality. It's amazing to see. So that's been fun to watch. And lastly today, Apple announced
00:22:10 ◼ ► that they have done a new deal with Peanuts, the Charlie Brown people. Peanuts worldwide.
00:22:17 ◼ ► They're going to be bringing some classic Charlie Brown specials to TV+ along with new originals and
00:22:23 ◼ ► another new season of Snoopy in Space. Yeah. And it sounds like they're doing some new holiday-themed
00:22:29 ◼ ► ones because they were always holiday specials. And they've run out of holidays for Peanuts
00:22:34 ◼ ► specials, but they found some. They've unearthed or created some new ones. But one aspect of this
00:22:39 ◼ ► press release that, at least the way I read it, is that even if you're not an Apple TV+ subscriber,
00:22:45 ◼ ► on basically a day or two around the holiday, they are going to make them available for free.
00:22:52 ◼ ► So like the "It's the Great Pumpkin Charlie Brown" will be available October 30th through November
00:23:05 ◼ ► That's the way I read that. Yeah, I think so. And then likewise for "Charlie Brown Thanksgiving"
00:23:12 ◼ ► and "Charlie Brown Christmas" that they will... We'll see. We will see how they do it, but it
00:23:19 ◼ ► sounds like they're trying to... They want to be the home of Peanuts, basically. So we'll see how
00:23:23 ◼ ► that goes. This episode is brought to you by TextExpander from our friends at Smaal. Take your time
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00:25:04 ◼ ► to learn more about TextExpander today. That's textexpander.com/podcast. Our thanks to TextExpander
00:25:10 ◼ ► for their support of this show and Relay FM. So one week later we have a bunch of things that we
00:25:17 ◼ ► have learned. One of the things that we were confused about so much last time was about the way
00:25:24 ◼ ► that the HomePod and HomePod Mini would work with TV because we thought it would be one thing, then
00:25:29 ◼ ► we read the website which made it seem like it was another thing, and then we changed our minds.
00:25:33 ◼ ► But here's what it is. So we were super confused about if you could use the HomePod Mini in a stereo
00:25:39 ◼ ► pair with the TV and how that would work. So it turns out that two HomePod Minis in a stereo pair
00:25:45 ◼ ► will do almost exactly what the original HomePod can currently do. So what I was talking about,
00:25:53 ◼ ► the setup that I really love at home with my two HomePods, the HomePod Mini will do that. So you
00:25:58 ◼ ► can connect a stereo pair to your TV and you get this immersive stereo experience. But we were
00:26:05 ◼ ► talking about something that said, what was it like Apple TV HD or something like TV audio or
00:26:13 ◼ ► something was on the website. Yeah it was a home theater or something like that. That was it. So
00:26:18 ◼ ► we thought it was a feature that existed but it turns out it's a new feature that was only
00:26:22 ◼ ► announced in the bullet points of the HomePod and it's HomePod only not HomePod Mini supported. And
00:26:30 ◼ ► that is what I guessed it was actually based on that which is it's basically doing with HomePods
00:26:37 ◼ ► what the same thing that happens with AirPods Pro which is it's taking a surround signal and decoding
00:26:46 ◼ ► it to create spatial audio out of two HomePods but that only works on the big HomePods. It's
00:26:55 ◼ ► basically 5.1 and 7.1 surround and Dolby Atmos content will be now played in what is called an
00:27:02 ◼ ► immersive home theater experience when paired with an Apple TV 4K. And this is coming at some point,
00:27:08 ◼ ► presumably this is probably all going to be of iOS 14.2. It was my expectation. I haven't seen
00:27:17 ◼ ► it anywhere. This will be especially useful because with tvOS and iOS 14.2 you'll be able
00:27:23 ◼ ► to finally set the HomePod as the default speaker so you no longer have to change it from no I want
00:27:34 ◼ ► for this Apple TV 4K these HomePods are the speakers when anything ever plays it comes to
00:27:40 ◼ ► here no matter what has happened on the HomePod. Because it's always annoying to me that if I
00:27:44 ◼ ► listen to music on my HomePod the next time I go to the TV I then have to set the output again.
00:27:49 ◼ ► So you'll be able to actually set it as no this is where the TV plays audio too. So I am extra
00:27:55 ◼ ► excited about this for two reasons. One I can now restate what I said last time which was if you pay
00:28:02 ◼ ► $200 and get two HomePod minis my expectation is you're going to have a great home theater setup
00:28:08 ◼ ► if you're wanting to use an Apple TV of it. I really recommend this for people that live in
00:28:13 ◼ ► small spaces in apartments and stuff like that. I guarantee you will get even though I have not
00:28:19 ◼ ► used the HomePod mini I can still I think guarantee that you will get a better experience than using
00:28:25 ◼ ► your television speakers. So that's really great because then you can also put them wherever you
00:28:31 ◼ ► want you can put them closer to you super awesome. And then when the new HomePod comes I'm really
00:28:37 ◼ ► excited to try out how this sounds so well not the new HomePod the new update for the HomePod
00:28:43 ◼ ► really excited about that. Yeah I expect that you will download a beta update your HomePods to
00:28:49 ◼ ► version that supports this and add this to your tvOS review. The connected tvOS review yeah this
00:28:54 ◼ ► is yes and in fact I in fact I would say Myke this is such an exciting feature you might want
00:28:58 ◼ ► to hold off on your tvOS review until this feature ships. Yeah unfortunately Apple keeps pushing back
00:29:06 ◼ ► my tvOS review on connected and this is just another reason why I've done it. Yeah the HomePod
00:29:11 ◼ ► mini supports Thread networking this is the first Apple product to do so. I'll give you a quote here
00:29:17 ◼ ► from MacRumors article but I can explain it a little more detail. Thread is a low power IP
00:29:22 ◼ ► based networking technology for connecting internet of things devices offering a secure
00:29:26 ◼ ► mesh based system that makes it easy to build an ecosystem of devices. So this is basically like
00:29:32 ◼ ► I think it's a separate chip in some devices but maybe some like system on a chip support it but
00:29:40 ◼ ► it effectively allows for internet like smart devices to talk to each other in a low power way
00:29:47 ◼ ► and is supported across lots of different device types. Yeah this is an emerging I think that it's
00:29:55 ◼ ► in here just makes me suspect that the connected home working group is perhaps going to standardize
00:30:01 ◼ ► on Thread as their choice. It feels likely doesn't it. But this is in fact I learned about Thread from
00:30:09 ◼ ► when Eero sponsored our podcast. Me too I was going to say that yep that the first devices that I knew about was
00:30:15 ◼ ► Eero's because they're not a sponsor today but they are a sponsor in general. They're beacons
00:30:21 ◼ ► the little extenders they work with Thread networking. Yeah so this is a an interesting thing that I
00:30:27 ◼ ► think like the U1 chip is kind of you raise an eyebrow and you say what does this mean for the
00:30:33 ◼ ► future and maybe nothing but probably something maybe you know this I doubt they would have put
00:30:40 ◼ ► it in here if they didn't have some sort of intent of using it down the road. Yeah I expect all of
00:30:46 ◼ ► Apple's home products will get Thread chips going into the future. So it's just like a it is a
00:30:51 ◼ ► standard Apple is on the standards body for Thread network for Thread so you know this is one of them.
00:30:57 ◼ ► Like his bigger sibling the HomePod mini has a non-detachable cable but this time it ends in a
00:31:05 ◼ ► USB-C connector and there is a 21 adapter in the box. That's nice. So there's the two things about
00:31:13 ◼ ► this story is like one the thing that upset a lot of people and I understand why at first is that
00:31:18 ◼ ► like the HomePod had no way of bringing AUX in right you basically you could only play audio that
00:31:24 ◼ ► it would allow you couldn't plug anything into it right and then the cable the power cable was just
00:31:30 ◼ ► physically attached to it but now with the the HomePod mini it ends in a USB-C which I think is
00:31:37 ◼ ► actually a better choice for this product. I don't know if I would necessarily assume that Apple
00:31:41 ◼ ► should do this for the main HomePod but this device seems small enough that like you might
00:31:45 ◼ ► want to plug it into an outlet that has a USB-C connection on it rather than a like a socket and
00:31:51 ◼ ► I've also seen some people suggest that you know like maybe you could power this thing through
00:31:56 ◼ ► other means like a battery pack right or something like that that has a USB-C attachment to it so
00:32:03 ◼ ► that I'm intrigued to try that out if it's only a 20 watt power adapter I would expect lots of
00:32:08 ◼ ► things would be able to power this thing and then that could become more useful to you as a little
00:32:13 ◼ ► speaker you could take around to different places because it's got USB-C on the end. Yeah you said
00:32:18 ◼ ► AUX in and it sounded like Orks in. You let the Orks in. Like it's a little one does not simply
00:32:24 ◼ ► let the Orks in. Yeah but when you say it it's like you're allowing cows or like ball into it
00:32:29 ◼ ► right you're just letting the AUX in. Here comes the AUX. Uh-huh AUX in. AUX in cow out.
00:32:35 ◼ ► AUX in, AUX out. There you go that's that's our fantasy bar we let the AUX in but the AUX need
00:32:44 ◼ ► to leave. Oh I would prefer the bar that lets the Orks in but not the AUX. AUX in. EarPods and iPhone
00:32:55 ◼ ► price they charge our prices the power adapter prices have been cut by ten dollars so that's the
00:33:02 ◼ ► you know now that now that we have to buy them if we want them they've cut the price a little
00:33:06 ◼ ► bit ten dollars is the amount that Apple's brought them down by. Apple have also removed
00:33:12 ◼ ► EarPods and chargers from all phones the SE and the XR no longer have them in the boxes
00:33:19 ◼ ► they have not amended prices so but so basically the story now is if you can buy a new phone from
00:33:37 ◼ ► So I had an upgrade and actually send in a picture they just bought a XR for a family member
00:33:43 ◼ ► and it's already gone so that's how I knew about the XR because I saw Mark Gorman reporting about
00:33:50 ◼ ► the SE no longer having it but it's also the XR it's all sold separately now. So this is all I mean
00:33:56 ◼ ► it's very clear now that um that worldwide Apple has said we're not gonna put power plugs in and
00:34:05 ◼ ► we're also gonna start not putting headphones in so it's all it's all settling down clear as crystal
00:34:13 ◼ ► right Myke? Yes Jason. Except in France. Oh yes except in France this is hilarious sorry I didn't
00:34:21 ◼ ► know we were moving on. If you live in France you still get EarPods in the box. Vive la France!
00:34:29 ◼ ► Vive la Revolucion! Okay um there is a law in France I would just say France I love all of our
00:34:43 ◼ ► French listeners. I love how you started this story though. Yep there is a law in France.
00:34:49 ◼ ► Sorry I apologize greatly for what I just did. The French have lots of laws that are interesting
00:35:00 ◼ ► um they have lots of laws around content stuff that we've spoken about before right like
00:35:05 ◼ ► certain amounts of music tv uh all have to be in French language and I understand they are trying
00:35:28 ◼ ► is that there is a law in France that every phone must be included with a hands-free kit in the box
00:35:34 ◼ ► so that you know that was back when we used to call them hands-free kits. This is from the era
00:35:40 ◼ ► where it was expected that when you bought a phone you would hold it up to your head all the time
00:35:44 ◼ ► which I feel like we have left that era behind but the law remains. When you hear me say that law
00:35:51 ◼ ► I know that everyone that's listening to this says to themselves oh yeah because of driving right
00:35:56 ◼ ► that's what you assume the law is about that is you include a hands-free kit so people won't
00:36:01 ◼ ► hold the phone up to their ears when they're driving right no wrong this is this law protects
00:36:07 ◼ ► children from the risks of electromagnetic waves. The uh this is the kind of law that was written
00:36:14 ◼ ► when what you did is you took your Nokia candy bar phone and you plugged a weird kind of wide
00:36:21 ◼ ► clicky thing with a bunch of pins into it click and then you had a single little earpiece with
00:36:27 ◼ ► that foam on it and you stuck that in your ear and a little clip on the microphone you that's right
00:36:33 ◼ ► and then you said I'm hands-free look at me and that was the finest uh technology of 2005.
00:36:41 ◼ ► So there we go so I am intrigued and I would like to know listeners out there if we have any French
00:36:49 ◼ ► listeners that are continuing to listen to the show they haven't rage quit. I would like this
00:36:55 ◼ ► earlier pictures of these boxes because I want to know how Apple are handling this. What is it
00:37:03 ◼ ► like tucked in like a secret compartment down at the bottom that like or is there a special
00:37:08 ◼ ► do they bundle it up like they do the watch like what do they do I am very intrigued about this.
00:37:14 ◼ ► Send us your pictures like one of your French iPhones. Oh look at that sort of a reference.
00:37:19 ◼ ► I hope you're proud of yourself. I am unduly proud. iPhone 12 pro features six gigabytes of ram
00:37:26 ◼ ► the 12 and 12 mini have four gigabytes of ram so if you're wondering why some features especially
00:37:33 ◼ ► in the photography department for photo and video are exclusive to the iPhone 12 pro this could be
00:37:39 ◼ ► the technical reason that's doing that if it's not just a we want to differentiate the line reason.
00:37:45 ◼ ► I think personally I think both are acceptable but this could be the reason like there are some like
00:37:52 ◼ ► the the pro raw is on these phones only and that you know maybe ram helps with that and I believe
00:37:58 ◼ ► that there is a different frame rate for the HDR video. I believe this goes up to 60 frames per
00:38:05 ◼ ► second on the pro phones and 30 frames per second on the non-pro phones is that right Jason?
00:38:10 ◼ ► You see the 30 and 60 or 60 and 120 but basically this could be the one of the things that
00:38:17 ◼ ► it's 30 and 60. I think it's 30 and 60. So this could be it who knows but there is a difference
00:38:23 ◼ ► that is one of the differences that exists for these devices 30 and 60 David is confirming in
00:38:30 ◼ ► the discord. All leather cases for the new phones will not be available until November 6th. So this
00:38:38 ◼ ► was an interesting thing it was just it was just the plastic and silicon cases that were available
00:38:45 ◼ ► in the Apple store. I did find this interesting that OtterBox have cases in the Apple store
00:38:52 ◼ ► already so obviously Apple have done some kind of deal with them to allow them to have the actual
00:38:57 ◼ ► specifications in advance so I think that's kind of interesting. Those OtterBox cases look really
00:39:03 ◼ ► nice too they're like a almost tie-dye Jason I think you would like them I know you like tie-dye.
00:39:15 ◼ ► funny right because it's like any any charger based solution that Apple introduces that even
00:39:24 ◼ ► looks like it could be air power now maybe they will not talk about when it's coming out in case
00:39:29 ◼ ► it can't but that device has not yet been announced with a date but it's just coming at some point but
00:39:37 ◼ ► all of the leather cases will be available for purchase on or around the time that you can get
00:39:44 ◼ ► your the other round of pre-order phones and cases and MagSafe chargers have begun arriving with
00:39:52 ◼ ► customers so people started receiving them there's been lots of photos of them online. I'm really
00:39:58 ◼ ► intrigued to see how exactly how these cases sit on the new phones obviously that's not a thing that
00:40:05 ◼ ► we've been able to see yet because you know it doesn't look like there's much of a lip on the
00:40:11 ◼ ► the case but like a little bit and I'm really intrigued to see like how far up the case the
00:40:17 ◼ ► phone that these cases go you know like do they do they sit flush with the screens do they overhang
00:40:23 ◼ ► the screens a little bit I'm interested to see that plus just when you look at that MagSafe
00:40:29 ◼ ► charger it looks really weird because it looks like it's a Apple watch charger but then you see
00:40:35 ◼ ► it next to the Apple charger and then it looks weird in proportion it's just like a funny little
00:40:39 ◼ ► thing. Yeah well I'll be used to it though that's the that's the funny thing is in a year it'll be
00:40:45 ◼ ► like old hat but I love this this is one of the quirks about Apple product releases that I really
00:40:49 ◼ ► love which is that Apple is happy to send you all of these accessories in advance of you actually
00:40:56 ◼ ► having the product. Get them out of here we don't even want them you know. Yeah this isn't nobody's
00:41:00 ◼ ► nobody's waiting anticipating this we can just shoot these out now and not worry about it.
00:41:05 ◼ ► I discovered when pre-ordering a phone I'll talk about it later the Apple would only let you order
00:41:12 ◼ ► two MagSafe chargers at once and I tried to order three I think just like what two for home one for
00:41:21 ◼ ► the studio just like kitting out everywhere with these things right and it meant that like the
00:41:26 ◼ ► web the store kept erroring out on me which means that we have to wait a little bit longer for us
00:41:31 ◼ ► but it was just an interesting thing Apple would only let you order two of them at one time.
00:41:35 ◼ ► Just don't want to don't want to run out. I guess. People are going to want them. I guess.
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00:42:53 ◼ ► show and RelayFM. Okay benchmarks for the iPhone 12 Pro have been surfacing. Geekbench scores have
00:43:03 ◼ ► been popping up around the web as they tend to do and it's exactly what we thought right there's
00:43:07 ◼ ► about 20 to 25 speed improvement over the A13 bionic. Yeah it's faster in line with previous
00:43:17 ◼ ► updates. Yeah I really think that the story here is the neural engine which does obviously doesn't
00:43:25 ◼ ► show up at the benchmarks. You know like the increase to the neural engine you know when we
00:43:30 ◼ ► spoke to Tim Millet it really seemed like that was what he was seen to be focused on and then
00:43:36 ◼ ► when I look at all of the stuff that they're doing with camera processing that's where it really
00:43:41 ◼ ► feels like a lot of that time has been spent right it's making the neural stuff and the machine
00:43:46 ◼ ► learning stuff stronger and when you look at how the chip's broken up and how Apple showed it on
00:43:50 ◼ ► on the slides it really feels like that's where they're putting a lot of the emphasis. That was
00:43:57 ◼ ► definitely something that came up talking to Tim Millet right a couple episodes ago that neural
00:44:06 ◼ ► engine is a focus for them right now and it won't be forever right but there is definitely a feeling
00:44:12 ◼ ► now that a lot of features get better when you apply machine learning to them and that they can
00:44:20 ◼ ► gain a lot of extra like they make these incremental speed boosts with CPU and with you know multi-core
00:44:30 ◼ ► performance and things like that and then they can add cores and their their GPU performance
00:44:35 ◼ ► continues to improve which is great and it's not like they stopped but I definitely get the sense
00:44:40 ◼ ► that they've looked at the neural engine stuff and said well the place where we can make enormous
00:44:45 ◼ ► speed boosts is machine learning which is increasingly a part of the the bigger picture
00:44:51 ◼ ► and so that seems to be where they're they're putting a lot of their effort right now in terms
00:44:56 ◼ ► of you know it's a little like talking about Apple's finances where the CPU speed is the iPhone
00:45:04 ◼ ► sales or CPU and GPO it's the iPhone sales like it's the most important thing and you need to have
00:45:10 ◼ ► it but the machine learning stuff is like services revenue or wearables revenue where it's small
00:45:18 ◼ ► but that's where the the big action is right now because that's where there's opportunity for for
00:45:25 ◼ ► growth and who knows what the next big thing will be but I'd imagine that the software side at Apple
00:45:31 ◼ ► is looking at everything they do and saying how could this be done better with machine learning
00:45:35 ◼ ► like could we do this better now that we have access to the neural engine on on modern a series
00:45:42 ◼ ► chips yeah I was thinking about machine learning the other day and neural engines and all that kind
00:45:48 ◼ ► of stuff I know that the you know this is potentially a pie in the sky like thought but
00:46:01 ◼ ► and if companies really find ways to make them smarter like if that is a if that is an actual
00:46:08 ◼ ► future that companies like Apple can move to like that really does seem like an interesting thing
00:46:14 ◼ ► like you know when I say stupid it's like really Siri can only provide me with answers to basic
00:46:20 ◼ ► things right yeah and just the way that it does them is great but if I want to explain something
00:46:28 ◼ ► to my computer it doesn't want that right like it can't accept that and if we are able to continue
00:46:42 ◼ ► ahoy telephone what is my next event today and it says you have a doctor's appointment at four and
00:46:48 ◼ ► then I say can you change that to three o'clock and they're like okay let me just check with the
00:46:53 ◼ ► you know like actually have a backwards and forwards conversation with a computer like it's
00:46:58 ◼ ► an assistant like that is the future that these companies try to pretend like they have given us
00:47:04 ◼ ► now but it's not even nearly it right but like if that's something that we can move towards
00:47:11 ◼ ► like I want that and that I guess is why companies like Apple are investing so much of their time and
00:47:18 ◼ ► effort into these neural engines because the headroom there from where we are now to where
00:47:24 ◼ ► we could be is maybe higher in in this form of computing than any other type of computing that
00:47:30 ◼ ► we currently work at in the consumer space right if we're looking at speed of chips whatever like
00:47:36 ◼ ► they're faster than we need them to be now like no one's bumping up against the top end of a lot of
00:47:41 ◼ ► this stuff in consumer technology anymore right like graphics engines like seriously like come on
00:47:48 ◼ ► the best graphics that you will find in a computer in in games today typically tends to be in games
00:47:55 ◼ ► consoles well Apple's chips are as fast as Sony's right like all of this stuff is pretty standardized
00:48:02 ◼ ► and we see these big jumps right like there are big jumps in in computer gaming hardware at the
00:48:07 ◼ ► moment and great but like it doesn't really feel like there's much more we can go like much more
00:48:15 ◼ ► further we can go especially when you compare it to the smarts of computing and how much room there
00:48:22 ◼ ► still is left in that so it's just a random thought I had no I think I think it it's interesting to
00:48:28 ◼ ► think of what the empty space is I mean talking about chip design and neural engine I mean let's
00:48:33 ◼ ► talk about software in general one of the open fields where there it feels like there's enormous
00:48:40 ◼ ► room for growth is in these intelligent assistants and you know you got to do them anybody who lived
00:48:47 ◼ ► through the early days of the PC industry like computers were really bad for a really long time
00:48:51 ◼ ► and they eventually got to be pretty good this is the case we where our assistants right now
00:48:58 ◼ ► are varying degrees of bad but I would say they're all bad in the sense that none of them really can
00:49:04 ◼ ► do what we want them to do which is like you imagine Google are the best right and Google do
00:49:09 ◼ ► all of these things that are interesting but they're just gimmicks they're tricks right like
00:49:13 ◼ ► this one that they've they've just shown which I think is clever is you can have the Google Assistant
00:49:18 ◼ ► wait on hold for you on a call and it's detecting when there's music playing and then when a human
00:49:24 ◼ ► comes in you get notified and you can pick up the call that's really clever but that's not like
00:49:29 ◼ ► smart that's a thing that someone made it's not like right it got smarter so it could do that you
00:49:38 ◼ ► know what I mean like somebody was like we want to build this feature let's take the steps to build
00:49:43 ◼ ► that feature they're like little fun tricks and gimmicks that you can do with the powers of
00:49:48 ◼ ► computers but it's not smart it didn't do that and I understand that the people get concerned
00:49:56 ◼ ► about stuff like this but the computer didn't learn to do that and that's what we want to be
00:50:00 ◼ ► moving towards. Something in Federico's review actually to go back to that is about him getting
00:50:09 ◼ ► frustrated that there are all of these Siri intelligence offered things for like shortcuts
00:50:15 ◼ ► and they're never anything he wants to know and I was excited about the Siri widget that basically
00:50:23 ◼ ► is gonna put apps on your home screen but it's going to it's eight apps but it's eight apps that
00:50:30 ◼ ► it's it thinks you might want to see right now and that that lasted like an hour on my home screen
00:50:37 ◼ ► because it was never apps I wanted to see and so this is a case where smarter so machine learning
00:50:46 ◼ ► has proven to be really effective in certain areas right like it is really effective at scanning all
00:50:51 ◼ ► your photos and identifying tagging objects and stuff like that you can train it for stuff like
00:50:56 ◼ ► that but there is this other aspect of it which is you know can it be better at it can can my device
00:51:02 ◼ ► be better at intuiting what I want and what I'm trying to do and can our voice assistants be
00:51:07 ◼ ► better and all these other aspects of it and that that seems to be where it's it's kind of empty so
00:51:13 ◼ ► there there are and whether ultimately it's the neural engine that helps make that better or
00:51:18 ◼ ► whether it's just they need to do a better job in the cloud of programming smart assistants I don't
00:51:23 ◼ ► know but it feels like an empty hole and yes I will grant you that Siri is is deeper in that hole
00:51:31 ◼ ► that's empty I don't know what that means it Siri's further down but they're all bad I was
00:51:38 ◼ ► arguing with my Amazon Echo based product the other day they're all bad and it's a place that
00:51:45 ◼ ► I would like for them to get better and that's not just for voice assistants but it's also for
00:51:49 ◼ ► like on device like I would really like like you know Apple has this feature in the Apple watch
00:51:54 ◼ ► that they introduced a couple years ago that is automatically sensing when you you stop and start
00:52:01 ◼ ► a workout without actually choosing the workout start and stop and I it still doesn't work right
00:52:09 ◼ ► for me like I'll walk up a steep hill for a long time and nothing and then it will suddenly 25
00:52:15 ◼ ► minutes in it'll be like oh are you walking yeah I'm yeah I've been walking for quite a while now
00:52:22 ◼ ► and I've also had it where I've stopped to talk this happened yesterday I stopped on a trail
00:52:27 ◼ ► while we were hiking to talk to a friend and who is running the other way and we stopped there and
00:52:34 ◼ ► chatted for five minutes just standing there and at no point did my watch tap me and say
00:52:42 ◼ ► are you do you want to pause now are you done with your workout so then we continue walking
00:52:47 ◼ ► and five minutes later while we're walking it says oh do you want to pause now like what what are you
00:52:52 ◼ ► seeing now and and it's just one of those things that like that's a feature Apple thought was good
00:52:57 ◼ ► enough to put in the device and it still can't intuit based on what its various sensors are
00:53:04 ◼ ► telling it that I'm doing as a as a human being and like I want all my devices to be way better
00:53:09 ◼ ► at that like way better at intuiting my behavior based on their sensors and this is you know it
00:53:16 ◼ ► goes way beyond telling me whether I've stood or not like it's and this is a this is a place where
00:53:21 ◼ ► we could do some amazing things especially with wearables but with all the sensors we got in our
00:53:24 ◼ ► phones there's a lot of really intelligent deduction that could be done but it's just not there yet
00:53:30 ◼ ► so moving on the junk group wrote great article which I saw you linking to as well I know that you
00:53:38 ◼ ► it was it's full of lots of little interesting details there yeah Gruber does a good job but
00:53:43 ◼ ► this is like I think he outdid himself I think this is a very good useful clear article about
00:53:50 ◼ ► what is up with the iPhones in terms of price and in terms of the especially the camera functionality
00:53:58 ◼ ► yeah and it's worth reading for those two things and we're not going to go too actually really into
00:54:02 ◼ ► detail or about the confounding camera stuff because I know I'm just going to tie myself up
00:54:06 ◼ ► in knots again so it's worth reading this article but there are a couple of things I want to pull
00:54:10 ◼ ► out one is first comparing like-to-like models year over year the regular iPhone 12 is 130
00:54:16 ◼ ► more expensive than the iPhone 11 so something that it didn't really dawn on me until I read this
00:54:21 ◼ ► uh the iPhone starts at the same price that it started out before but that's the mini now
00:54:28 ◼ ► yeah this is this is one of those things that I think we got swept up in the in the details of the
00:54:39 ◼ ► also broke it down with the 30 rolled in because he thinks that the 30 discount thing is is bogus
00:54:45 ◼ ► and I think he's right even though most customers in the U.S. will get it with the 30 discount
00:54:50 ◼ ► and you know his point is it's a price increase whether you want to say it's a hundred dollars or
00:54:54 ◼ ► 130 this is actually a lot like what happened with the iPhone 10 which is they brought a product line
00:55:01 ◼ ► to OLED and the price went up and it's not necessarily surprising if you think about it
00:55:06 ◼ ► that that way but if you were shopping for an iPhone 11 last year and then you look at the 12
00:55:13 ◼ ► this year it's a hundred dollars more 130 more depending and the mini is the price of of what the
00:55:21 ◼ ► 11 was last year and that's just those those products are more expensive so the the price
00:55:28 ◼ ► to buy into the flagship line only went up thirty dollars and if you're on a major carrier it really
00:55:34 ◼ ► didn't go up but that's the mini and if you want the larger phone it's it's a hundred dollars more
00:55:40 ◼ ► so this is this is a a creeping up apple went a couple of years without necessarily doing the
00:55:45 ◼ ► the creeping up in price thing but here we are they they did it this year yeah what they but
00:55:51 ◼ ► what they did do which was they tried to do everything they could to make it look like the
00:55:56 ◼ ► price hadn't changed which is fine like fine i'm not i'm not this isn't a big complaint from me but
00:56:01 ◼ ► that is what they've done here like the prices had to go up clearly for what they were putting in it
00:56:06 ◼ ► we know this from OLED OLED is more expensive okay um but they tried their best to maintain
00:56:12 ◼ ► the price that they had and they did a couple of things to do that they got rid of chargers they
00:56:17 ◼ ► got rid of airpods they made it cheaper to ship these phones because they can ship more of them
00:56:21 ◼ ► in the same containers there is so many things that went into keeping the prices even relatively
00:56:27 ◼ ► consistent right so like the phone still starts the line still starts at 699 which is with the
00:56:32 ◼ ► mini and it also included asking carriers to help them right like they did everything they could to
00:56:40 ◼ ► get it to that price right and another quote not including a power adapter in the box also clearly
00:56:47 ◼ ► nudges people towards spending the 39 for the new magsafe charger in the same way that removing the
00:56:52 ◼ ► headphone jack nudged people towards buying airpods i thought this was really insightful
00:57:02 ◼ ► they got rid of uh the headphone jack for a bunch of reasons i'm sure but one of them was
00:57:14 ◼ ► and it's probably a similar thing here where now they have this new uh charging technology that
00:57:20 ◼ ► they're happy with and they want to push people towards that so by getting rid of the power
00:57:25 ◼ ► adapters people go to the store to buy a power adapter maybe and they maybe pick up this one
00:57:30 ◼ ► instead right even though the magsafe charger doesn't come with a power brick either but
00:57:35 ◼ ► nevertheless um i wanted to ask if you had uh any more thoughts yourself uh on the iphone line i
00:57:43 ◼ ► know that you've been writing a bunch of stuff about it this week have any more kind of considerations
00:57:47 ◼ ► solidified for you well i think the big thing so i wrote a piece at macworld that was about
00:57:52 ◼ ► a dilemma that i think a lot of people are gonna have and i feel it but i think that there are a
00:57:57 ◼ ► bunch of people who feel it more acutely than me and it's the people who have been frustrated at
00:58:01 ◼ ► the size of apple's phones getting creeping up getting bigger over time that the from from the
00:58:06 ◼ ► five line to the six line and then from the six the six family uh six seven eight to the ten and
00:58:15 ◼ ► the screen on the 12 pro is larger than the screen on the 11 pro right so it's this feeling of like
00:58:23 ◼ ► it continues to creep in my macworld column i said it's that you know it's the frog in the in
00:58:29 ◼ ► the pot of water like you you it just keeps getting warmer and warmer but if you don't like
00:58:35 ◼ ► a larger phone and you prefer a smaller phone um how far will apple push you and so i think with
00:58:42 ◼ ► the existence of the mini you now have a flagship phone that is noticeably smaller um smaller in
00:58:49 ◼ ► hand especially because these these screens are now pushed so close to the edges that it's mostly
00:58:55 ◼ ► about uh what you really need to do is think about the size of it holding it in your hand um and
00:59:01 ◼ ► because that's usually what people feel it's in their hand or in their pocket right um and and so
00:59:07 ◼ ► i've been thinking about that what i didn't really think about that i think is also worth noting here
00:59:13 ◼ ► is so first the 12 pro from the 11 pro although the screen is larger the 12 pro is actually not
00:59:22 ◼ ► physically that much larger it's about a tenth of an inch taller and 0.01 inches wider so it's
00:59:30 ◼ ► essentially in your hand the same it's just slightly taller and the screen is bigger because
00:59:37 ◼ ► you measure on the diagonal and so a small change can end up being a larger change on the diagonal
00:59:42 ◼ ► what i neglected to consider is the fact that the iphone 12 is the same physical size as the 12 pro
00:59:56 ◼ ► whereas the 11 was like the 10r it's bigger a bigger phone and so you had if you did a small
01:00:04 ◼ ► medium large it was it was 11 pro and then 11 and then 11 pro max it's not the case this time they're
01:00:12 ◼ ► basically the same phone so the truth is if you're somebody who has a 10 uh class phone and you're
01:00:18 ◼ ► looking to upgrade your phone you have a bunch of choices because you could you have two phones that
01:00:25 ◼ ► are essentially the same size as the phone that you've got the 12 and the 12 pro and they have
01:00:31 ◼ ► different features and the screens aren't exactly identical i think but they're but they are in the
01:00:37 ◼ ► hand they're the same um and then you've got the mini which is way smaller so i just i think that's
01:00:46 ◼ ► really interesting that that um i kept in my mind kind of aligning the 12 with the 11 as a larger
01:00:54 ◼ ► cheaper phone and in truth it is no it is neither right it's what's cheaper but it's more expensive
01:01:00 ◼ ► than the 11 the 12 is and it's smaller than the 11 which i think the price makes it complicated but
01:01:09 ◼ ► the size thing i feel like maybe makes it a little bit more of a mainstream phone that it's about the
01:01:12 ◼ ► same size it's not this kind of inexplicably larger yet cheaper phone because that's a little bit of a
01:01:18 ◼ ► variation for apple but um but the mini then is the obvious small one so i think i think there's
01:01:24 ◼ ► a real question here and that that there's some people are going to leap for the mini because
01:01:26 ◼ ► it's like i i the 10 size is already too large the eight size is too large i want to go down the mini
01:01:32 ◼ ► lets me do that great then there's everybody else who's like either on a you know six seven eight
01:01:38 ◼ ► or went to the 10 10s 11 somewhere in there 11 pro i mean and they look at the 12 and the 12 pro and
01:01:47 ◼ ► say these are essentially the same size so which one do i want and that's an interesting buying
01:01:53 ◼ ► question too which is 12 or 12 pro because the 12 is cheaper um not as cheap as you might think
01:02:03 ◼ ► like at 128 gigs the 12 thank you john gruber for your chart uh at 128 gigs of storage the 12 is
01:02:09 ◼ ► only 120 dollars i guess 150 dollars if you've got the good carrier cheaper than the 12 pro they're
01:02:17 ◼ ► closer it's just that you can cut it back to 64 and get it for even cheaper so i think it's really
01:02:23 ◼ ► i think those are the things that i find the most fascinating you big phone people are just like
01:02:27 ◼ ► well promax it's just promax and like i get it that's actually kind of the easiest decision
01:02:32 ◼ ► but otherwise you've got this very interesting two almost identical phones in terms of size but
01:02:37 ◼ ► one has pro features and one doesn't and then you've got the mini and the question do you go
01:02:42 ◼ ► down in size how much has the ever-increasing flagship iphone size bothered you do you want to
01:02:49 ◼ ► go all the way back or do you pick up that mini and think oh i i guess i got used to the big phone
01:02:55 ◼ ► i'll just stick with the i'll just stick with the 12 or 12 pro one of the things that i think we are
01:03:02 ◼ ► yet to see and i'm really intrigued to see how this feels and shakes out of most people is yes
01:03:08 ◼ ► the physical sizes haven't changed that much but the screens have gotten bigger and what does that
01:03:12 ◼ ► feel like right like i get i totally get i'm completely on board with what you're saying right
01:03:18 ◼ ► like these phones are bigger but they're not bigger um but the screens are bigger and the
01:03:24 ◼ ► screens are proportionally much larger than the physical size changes have been right um and also
01:03:30 ◼ ► the idea of like well the screens are stretching out right because the sides are flat they're not
01:03:36 ◼ ► rounded anymore um and so i think it is a thing to that's worth considering because whilst your phone
01:03:42 ◼ ► might not be physically larger it will be more tricky potentially for you to reach across the
01:03:47 ◼ ► screen so i'm i'm intrigued to see how these screen size changes actually feel in use a lot
01:03:56 ◼ ► of ergonomic issues that we're going to have to explore and and having kind of batted down the
01:04:02 ◼ ► concern about it getting taller the 12 and 12 pro getting taller than the 11 pro and saying well it's
01:04:11 ◼ ► really about how it fits in your hand that's true to a point right but one of the my biggest problem
01:04:17 ◼ ► honestly with iphone ergonomics right now on the 11 pro that i have is not the width of the phone
01:04:23 ◼ ► at all it's the fact that i can't comfortably reach anything that's up at the top of the screen
01:04:27 ◼ ► yeah um and i when i think about the mini i think it's not just going to be narrower it's also going
01:04:36 ◼ ► to be shorter and that is uh interesting to me i wonder how that's gonna that's gonna feel so
01:04:43 ◼ ► i don't know it ergonomics are important and we talk a lot about prices and 5g radios and
01:04:52 ◼ ► processors and neural engines and all of that sort of techy stuff but one of the very important
01:04:59 ◼ ► things when it comes to a lot of these products especially a phone is the ergonomics it's like
01:05:04 ◼ ► how does it feel in your hand and how does it feel tapping on the screen and is it also out there
01:05:11 ◼ ► that we don't really know yet is is it slippery like a bar of soap or does it feel more stable in
01:05:17 ◼ ► your hand which i i have high hopes that it will i am happy to report that my favorite fact about
01:05:23 ◼ ► iphone about ios and ipads and iphone product sizing is still in effect that the 2018 slash
01:05:30 ◼ ► 2020 ipad pro is still the thinnest device apple has ever made the all of the phones are 7.4
01:05:41 ◼ ► millimeters thick all of them all four which is interesting to me that even the mini is as thick
01:05:47 ◼ ► as the pro i just find that intriguing it's weird to me that they've decided to keep that thickness
01:05:54 ◼ ► so so consistent and the ipad pro is 5.9 millimeters thick the new ipad air is 6.1 so even
01:06:01 ◼ ► the ipad air is a little bit thicker than the ipad pro it's one of my favorite facts it's one that i
01:06:07 ◼ ► say every now and then and people never believe it and then they have to go check it themselves
01:06:11 ◼ ► because it does seem so uh so surprising really that like you know like the ipad pro is thinner
01:06:18 ◼ ► than the ipod touch ever was even so really really peculiar um for me uh i've been doing some
01:06:26 ◼ ► reflecting on last week i feel like the presentation last week itself left me frustrated but that was
01:06:36 ◼ ► just in the presentation on reflecting about the devices themselves i am actually really excited
01:06:43 ◼ ► about the iphone 12 line i think that overall this is a very good upgrade because the design
01:06:51 ◼ ► looks great and i mean very excited to see what that looks like to hold it um and to see what the
01:06:56 ◼ ► new colors are like i like that there's more choice you know like the inclusion of the mini
01:07:02 ◼ ► really is fantastic because uh apple finally have created a phone which is of top tier quality
01:07:11 ◼ ► and a size that people thought was gone right like when when the se came out and it was it was
01:07:18 ◼ ► the new se and it was just an iphone 8 you know i think we all just thought that that that small
01:07:25 ◼ ► phone could have been gone forever so i'm really pleased to see that apple have made a small
01:07:30 ◼ ► modern phone the leaps in camera performance both in software and hardware are very intriguing to
01:07:36 ◼ ► me especially on the pro max i'm really looking forward to and intrigued about what images look
01:07:45 ◼ ► like from that phone right like what is it actually going to look like and feel like in
01:07:50 ◼ ► in daily use and also just the magsafe stuff is really exciting to me like new options for
01:07:57 ◼ ► accessories people can be creative again um i'm excited about that you know like i coming back
01:08:02 ◼ ► from the beginning of the show i'm excited about the possibility of having a pop socket that i
01:08:07 ◼ ► could just take off and then put my phone on a wireless charger which is just not something
01:08:11 ◼ ► that i've been able to do uh before so i i just wanted to say that like i felt like i was
01:08:17 ◼ ► frustrated after the event because it was short and confusing in some places and some of the way
01:08:23 ◼ ► that apple decided to talk about 5g and stuff was quite frustrating to me um especially because you
01:08:31 ◼ ► know not being in the uk like it so not being in the us it like really irked me um like how american
01:08:45 ◼ ► about the devices themselves and speaking of which uh i referenced earlier ordering so we ordered a
01:08:53 ◼ ► dnr a 12 pro so i will have a new phone to play around with um i will be kind of stealing it
01:09:03 ◼ ► every now and then to see how it feels and we'll be doing some camera tests and stuff so on next
01:09:07 ◼ ► week's episode uh i will at least i have will have some experience of a 12 pro so i'm excited about
01:09:14 ◼ ► that we're actually picking it up at a store jason so i'll talk about what that process is like to go
01:09:20 ◼ ► to one of the biggest apple stores in the world on iphone launch day in 2020 to pick up a phone
01:09:25 ◼ ► i'm expecting that to be somewhat of an experience in and of itself so there we go excited for next
01:09:33 ◼ ► week you get to brave the apple store and see what that process is like and i'm curious because you
01:09:38 ◼ ► know i went through it for my thing but my thing was buying a watch band so it didn't really matter
01:09:43 ◼ ► so much i haven't ordered anything just to be clear again i haven't ordered anything but i'm
01:09:48 ◼ ► hopeful that i'm going to get to try all this stuff uh for review yeah that'd be cool yeah
01:09:52 ◼ ► hopefully hopefully both of us will have had some experience with the 12 or 12 pro um by our next
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01:12:33 ◼ ► brent says if you had to replace your 11-inch ipad pro today or i know you have a 12-inch but let's
01:12:40 ◼ ► just imagine a situation in which you have an 11-inch i do would you buy uh another ipad pro
01:12:47 ◼ ► or would you get the new ipad air now i want to answer this question in two different ways jason
01:12:54 ◼ ► if i can okay yes if i was replacing my ipad pro i would get another ipad pro because i am used to
01:13:04 ◼ ► face id if i did not have an ipad pro i would get the ipad air most likely like i would be more
01:13:16 ◼ ► willing to to look at that because i wouldn't be used to something i think i would uh get annoyed
01:13:24 ◼ ► um with uh like when i use my ipad mini that i have here at the studio i always forget that
01:13:30 ◼ ► i need to use touch id on it and it frustrates me a little bit compared to my ipad pro so that would
01:13:36 ◼ ► be that would be difficult for me imagine tapping on the space bar on the keyboard and then realizing
01:13:42 ◼ ► you have to reach up and oh and yeah put your finger on the touch id that see this is the thing
01:13:47 ◼ ► it's like that's just one of those things that i think once you're used to it it would get it would
01:13:50 ◼ ► be too frustrating but if i wasn't used to it then i maybe more would more consider it because the
01:13:56 ◼ ► ipad pro is a super cool device right um and it's really and you're um you're uh losing promotion
01:14:05 ◼ ► you're losing some camera stuff it's it's real close right but the the price also again um is
01:14:15 ◼ ► not as wide a gap as you might expect if you're not looking at the base model with the smallest
01:14:20 ◼ ► amount of storage so i think i think most people who have an ipad pro if they had to replace it
01:14:26 ◼ ► would probably be better off replacing it with an ipad pro um and not missing those features but you
01:14:31 ◼ ► know we're all waiting for the other shoe to drop right and for there to be a new ipad pro yeah
01:14:39 ◼ ► the ipad here is a very very intriguing prospect yeah tony asks do you think that we will have
01:14:53 ◼ ► what do you think yeah i it's a great question because we've always said i don't believe that
01:15:03 ◼ ► the iphone's going to be there's going to be an iphone 19 right and yet here we are at the iphone
01:15:08 ◼ ► 12 so that has kept happening also next time is 13 which some people have superstitions about
01:15:16 ◼ ► although there was an ios 13 and it was yeah and look how that went it was a disaster we've made
01:15:21 ◼ ► this i made this exact same joke about three weeks ago i don't know i feel like the future of apple
01:15:27 ◼ ► product names is mysterious um and so perhaps they will i doubt it i wouldn't bet on it
01:15:36 ◼ ► i feel like it's clearer to just increment the numbers but who knows because apple has changed
01:15:46 ◼ ► its its number game a lot and it still does feel like an iphone 19 is unlikely but at the same time
01:15:56 ◼ ► what else are they going to do like they've got they now have product name slots and the number
01:16:00 ◼ ► is essentially just instead of a year they give it a number so that you know which version it is
01:16:05 ◼ ► for which year but it feels like they're settling into a place where there's going to be number
01:16:12 ◼ ► number pro number pro max and number mini now and then you just keep incrementing the number in a way
01:16:18 ◼ ► that kind of doesn't matter it's just the new iphone but you gotta call it something so if i
01:16:22 ◼ ► had to bet money on i mean ever is a is a tough one especially about but i think because it's
01:16:29 ◼ ► so bananas right because they keep changing it but right now i think that apple probably is is uh
01:16:35 ◼ ► happy to just keep incrementing the number for a long time so i think that the pro max name
01:16:45 ◼ ► has removed the ability for them to include s because iphone 12s pro max is too much it's too
01:16:52 ◼ ► much oh my god it's too much right there's too many syllables in there so i think that you're
01:16:58 ◼ ► right right like they now have names and they just did it they just did it right this could easily be
01:17:03 ◼ ► the 11s and it's not it's the 12 and why would you not increment the number and make it seem like a
01:17:07 ◼ ► bigger update to get people more excited the s is almost like a uh half-hearted upgrade in terms of
01:17:15 ◼ ► naming so i wouldn't do it and you're right the pro max makes it even worse napali asks do you know
01:17:23 ◼ ► if the new ceramic glass is more scratch resistant apple just mentions brake resistance and durability
01:17:37 ◼ ► unclear on that because that that definitely is something that has come up before that if you
01:17:42 ◼ ► if you try to prevent shattering you may end up being more uh scratch scratchy i don't know i
01:17:50 ◼ ► mean what i'll say is like i don't know the proper is a ceramic very much but i've been wearing a
01:17:56 ◼ ► ceramic apple watch on and off for over a year and i cannot see a scratch on it anywhere so
01:18:04 ◼ ► i don't know i don't know but i am intrigued uh i'm also intrigued for the people that try to
01:18:13 ◼ ► break their phones you know i i do not condone the destruction of devices no but for scientific
01:18:19 ◼ ► purposes i am interested to know right like if people do side-by-side drop tests um they're
01:18:27 ◼ ► difficult to conduct as well because it's like you can't do it scientifically but i am intrigued to
01:18:32 ◼ ► see teardowns and and durability tests and stuff of this new glass like how much more um resistant
01:18:42 ◼ ► is it actually we'll find out so uh witter charm in the chat says that it's actually more they're
01:18:48 ◼ ► claiming more scratch and brake resistant so i don't know we'll see where did they claim that
01:18:55 ◼ ► like in the in the thing itself they just said it was more durable so i don't know all right i hope
01:19:01 ◼ ► so chris asks if apple had added a fingerprint sensor in the power button to the iphone how would
01:19:08 ◼ ► they manage it given that most people use cases they have a cutout for the kit for the uh for the
01:19:14 ◼ ► button i just i don't think how do they manage it with a home button before with touch id like you
01:19:21 ◼ ► have a cutout for the touch id sensor um my thought was they could just end up with a folio case for
01:19:27 ◼ ► the iphone like a folio case style like they do with the ipad and it and it actually leaves the
01:19:33 ◼ ► sides exposed um to a to a degree yeah i don't know but i think the easiest situations you just
01:19:41 ◼ ► do a cutout like this is how other uh phones that phones do exist in the world with with uh
01:19:49 ◼ ► fingerprint sensors in the lock buttons right this is a very normal thing on android phones
01:19:56 ◼ ► and there's just a cutout in that part of the case simple like it's it's it's done uh last question
01:20:04 ◼ ► today comes from zach zach says i am very tempted by the 12 mini being a person who enjoys smaller
01:20:11 ◼ ► phones but the switch from touch id to face id is giving me some pause i'm currently on the newer se
01:20:22 ◼ ► versus touch id especially during covid so i love face id i do i i prefer it i love having it on my
01:20:30 ◼ ► ipads especially um with wearing a mask outside in public it's terrible it's terrible it's terrible
01:20:37 ◼ ► and so i i don't really know what to say here other than if you're out and about a lot wearing a mask
01:20:46 ◼ ► um it's not a good experience and you probably need to go to a low security password because
01:20:52 ◼ ► you'll you're going to be endlessly locking and unlocking your phone i don't go out a lot so it
01:20:58 ◼ ► doesn't really bother me that much and it's super convenient when i'm unlocking it in the house and
01:21:03 ◼ ► not wearing a mask but when i'm out and i'm trying to like shop and check my shopping list on my
01:21:16 ◼ ► face id enables that are so great are all gone and i'm and i'm inputting my password every and
01:21:26 ◼ ► it turns out i lock and unlock my phone all the time when i'm at the store and i don't notice it
01:21:32 ◼ ► because it's face id and then you wear a mask and suddenly you see all those interactions and yeah
01:21:39 ◼ ► you can change to a simple password you could turn off uh screen lock and try not to turn off your
01:21:47 ◼ ► phone while you're in the store i've done that it's not great so i i honestly don't know what
01:21:55 ◼ ► to say about this um you are gonna have to adapt if you live in a cold climate you're gonna be
01:22:00 ◼ ► wearing gloves in the winter anyway um which is bad for touch id so i don't know it it all depends
01:22:09 ◼ ► on your circumstance and how you use your device but there is no doubt that if you're out and about
01:22:14 ◼ ► uh in a in a public location where masks are being worn you are gonna have uh have to adapt how you
01:22:23 ◼ ► use your iphone versus um you know using an easily more easily uh available biometric like touch id
01:22:32 ◼ ► or face id without a mask yeah yeah like i like face id in most instances it is faster and like
01:22:43 ◼ ► so basically before covered it was like easy for me like and the only thing that i had an issue with
01:22:48 ◼ ► was when uh it was like more frustrating for me to touch in in public transport but then apple
01:22:56 ◼ ► added the express card thing where you can set a card to your phone and you don't have to use any
01:23:03 ◼ ► authentication for it you just touch it by the reader and it goes it's super easy because it
01:23:07 ◼ ► used to be before you wouldn't even need to bring the the the phone up to your face it's just done
01:23:25 ◼ ► if you do wear gloves in the winter and realize that you're not that doesn't work for you then
01:23:29 ◼ ► you're used to this idea just clothing in some way restricts the biometrics this is not a new thing
01:23:37 ◼ ► but we're focusing on it more now because there's a new way for most people that this is happening so
01:23:44 ◼ ► this isn't a clear answer because really this has to be your own decision but if you are asking for
01:23:50 ◼ ► our experiences these are those i think we both prefer face id to touch id in most situations
01:23:56 ◼ ► but would still like touch id to come back and have both if apple said to me you can replace
01:24:01 ◼ ► touch id with face id i wouldn't do it because when i'm at home or when i'm somewhere where
01:24:06 ◼ ► i'm not wearing a mask or whatever face id is superior to touch id so i wouldn't want to change
01:24:11 ◼ ► so that's where i am a bit if you would like to send in a question to help us close out
01:24:18 ◼ ► the show you can always send out a tweet with the hashtag ask upgrade or in the relay fm members
01:24:24 ◼ ► discord use question mark ask upgrade send me a question that way you can also help us open the
01:24:29 ◼ ► show with a hashtag snow talk question i'm sure you can understand how you need to do that given
01:24:34 ◼ ► what i've just told you if you'd like to find jason online go to sixcolors.com and he is at
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