0:00:00It's good to get out of the house. I know, right?
0:00:09Well, I mean, you sit inside for so long and you're at your desk, you're talking into
0:00:13a microphone. It's good to get out in the outdoor spaces and move around.
0:00:18Mmhmm. I mean, we've been stuck inside for a while. It's nice to spend some time together.
0:00:22I figure, you know, while we're actually just here together anyway, I guess we could basically
0:00:28pretty much just do something like upgrade anyway.
0:00:31Yeah, I mean, if you and I go somewhere and we have a chat for an hour and a half.
0:00:36It's always upgrade.
0:00:37Isn't that really just an episode of upgrade?
0:00:39It always is. It doesn't matter. From Relay FM. Upgrade 312. This is a weekend outdoor
0:00:47edition.
0:00:48Sure. I hope there aren't any breaking, you know, news items over the weekend while we're
0:00:54out here.
0:00:55Could you imagine that? All right. Should we see what's on the radio? We'll get this
0:00:59thing started.
0:01:00Yeah, let's let's we'll get some tunes. Look at some tunes.
0:01:02[Music]
0:01:30[Music]
0:01:42Every conversation that we have seems to start with a Snell Talk question now anyway. So
0:01:46I guess I'll just ask you one. I saw a question from Peter who wanted to know what your favorite
0:01:51board game was.
0:01:53I mean, anytime you ask me a question, is it a Snell Talk question?
0:01:57Mmhmm.
0:01:59If Jason answers the question in the woods.
0:02:03Mmmhmm. Wow. That's a strange way to think of it. I do have, I guess, a favorite board
0:02:11game. This is a hard question. I really like Carcassonne, which isn't quite a board game
0:02:15because it's like a tile laying game. But it's, you know, you're basically making a
0:02:20board on a tabletop.
0:02:22A tabletop game. That's the better phrase now, isn't it? Rather than board game, tabletop
0:02:27game.
0:02:28Yeah.
0:02:29Because it encompasses all that stuff.
0:02:31We have a bunch in rotation with my family Ticket to Ride, still pretty popular. Love
0:02:38that one where you've got to make like trains, chains of like railroad routes across the
0:02:43country. I don't know what else. We've had a lot of good ones over the years. But, you
0:02:50know, Carcassonne is the one that I always want to play and that nobody else wants to
0:02:52play with me. And that, it probably suggests that it's my favorite. So I'm going to say
0:02:57that one. But there are lots of great board games. We've been playing Cryptid a little
0:03:03bit, which is a really, really fun game that's kind of like Mastermind, except way more complicated.
0:03:10It's a deduction game where basically there's a map and everybody's been given information
0:03:15about a piece of unique information. And if you put the pieces together, you can find
0:03:22out where the Cryptid is on the map. There's a hidden monster or animal or something that
0:03:28can only be in one space on the map. And there are different solutions every time. They give
0:03:33you a whole set of these solutions. And so what you have to do is by observing the answers
0:03:39that all the other players give to your questions, you have to start to deduce what they know,
0:03:44what the rule is that they know. And then if you put the rules together, you know where
0:03:49the Cryptid is. And it takes a little bit to understand how the game works, but once
0:03:54it works, it works really well. Because you can figure it out. And it's one of those games
0:03:59that as you start playing it, you're like, "I don't even know what I'm doing here." And
0:04:02then there's a moment where suddenly you're like, "Oh, I'm starting to figure it out."
0:04:07And then somebody figures it out and they win. So Cryptid is a good one that's in rotation
0:04:11right now.
0:04:12I always feel like I would enjoy more board games but never play board games or tabletop
0:04:17games.
0:04:18Yeah. Yeah. I'm surprised we haven't done more of it during the pandemic here since
0:04:23we have all four people at our house. But it just has not happened as often. I think
0:04:30part of it, it's nice to do it, but also everybody's just kind of stressed out and sad and it doesn't
0:04:38always. We get together for dinner and then usually the only other family activity that
0:04:43we engage in is watching episodes of Taskmaster, which is good, or an occasional movie. But
0:04:51the board game doesn't happen as often as maybe I wish it did.
0:04:53Because I guess with the kids, most people these days, they're just looking to try and
0:05:00have interactions with the people they would normally be interacting with, right?
0:05:03Yeah.
0:05:04But we're all over-socializing digitally to try and make up for the in-person.
0:05:08Yeah. Yeah. They've got stuff to do. My daughter is a college... I mean, it's summer, she would
0:05:17be home, but she's a college student and she's had this six-month period where she can't
0:05:22be a college student essentially and is living in a house with her parents, which is the
0:05:27worst. So I don't know. It's definitely a challenge. We should talk about that maybe
0:05:31a little bit later about our pandemic lives and what's been going on with that. That's
0:05:37worth talking about on the trek. We'll have time to talk. Just going to be two guys walking
0:05:43around.
0:05:44Are we nearly there yet?
0:05:47Yep. All right. Well, let's get going.
0:05:51Have you got any more thoughts on Epic and Apple?
0:05:56Is this like follow-up, Myke? Is that where we are?
0:05:59Sure.
0:06:00Are we still doing up right here? Is that what's happening?
0:06:02We're in like follow-up Grove or something right now, right?
0:06:06All right. I like this idea. I like this idea. It's outdoor podcast.
0:06:10But again, this is why every conversation between us is an episode of Upgrade because
0:06:15what else would we be talking about, right? Of course, this is what we're talking about.
0:06:19Well, so what's funny is that on the last episode, you started editing the show. I went
0:06:28for a run. I came back drenched in sweat to find...
0:06:32Like 20 minutes from me.
0:06:34Breaking news that Apple has threatened Epic with kicking them off of the platform entirely
0:06:44and invalidating their developer accounts and stuff like that. And I think that's where
0:06:51we are. We'll see. Hopefully nothing breaks over the weekend.
0:06:53But we're not going to know anyway.
0:06:55We won't know. We're going to be secluded. We're going to be out here in the middle of
0:06:58nowhere. We won't know. But I don't know. I don't consider this... I feel like this
0:07:07is the logical next move for Apple to make. And I wonder if Epic... I assume Epic kind
0:07:12of... kind of knew. I'm curious to see how Epic responds because I think Apple's move
0:07:18is basically to say, "Take the bad version. Revert your app. Revert your app and take
0:07:27the bypassing of the in-app purchase system out of the store. And then you're fine."
0:07:36I know that... For me, I look at that and I think there is a fairly straightforward way
0:07:43for this to move forward, which is for Epic, now that it's sort of made its point to revert
0:07:50its app and continue its lawsuit and say, "Look, we tried to do this. They prevented
0:07:55it. They told us that they were going to invalidate all of our stuff. So we took it off. The lawsuit
0:08:00proceeds and they get to have their day in court and they get to have this conversation
0:08:04and it continues on." We'll see if Epic does that, right? I don't know. They are... They're
0:08:12certainly going to make hay while they can, right? Because they've got this whole... They're
0:08:17going to do this whole free Fortnite thing, which is like... I've been saying up to now
0:08:22that this has all been publicity. Now it's becoming marketing. Yeah. They've got a whole
0:08:28thing going on and have been doing it the weekend that we're going into now. They've
0:08:35got... It's called the Free Fortnite Cup because it's basically... I think it's next week sometime.
0:08:39They're going to have the new season of Fortnite, which won't come to iOS because they won't
0:08:45need to update the app for the new season. So they're treating this as a last hurrah
0:08:52for iOS players is the way that they're kind of treating it. Because it's like, "Well, because
0:08:57of Apple, you're not going to get the next season. So we're going to do this big competition."
0:09:02And they're doing #FreeFortnite merch. And they have the Tim Cook Apple head guy, right?
0:09:12Tart Tycoon, which is a fantastic name, by the way. I think that's very funny. So that's
0:09:18like a skin that you can get in the game to participate in. I think Apple is going to
0:09:27hold them to "We're going to kick you out," in a week. But I think Epic will go to the
0:09:3611th hour before they make the update because they are using this still as a tactic in trying
0:09:48to turn public opinion. I mean, we spoke about it last time, and the thing that is irresponsible
0:09:54on Epic's part is the ramifications or the nervousness that could be felt by their development
0:10:01community for the Unreal Engine. And so you've got to assume, because you're right in what
0:10:06you said, right? This is the obvious move for Apple. So you have to assume that Epic
0:10:12has guessed that this would happen, right? We have to make that assumption because otherwise
0:10:17they were not thinking enough steps ahead when it seemed like they were thinking steps
0:10:22ahead for themselves. They should have planned the whole thing out. So my hope would be that
0:10:27they have an update, that they are ready to submit, but they're going to wait until the
0:10:32final moment so they keep everything in the store. And then you're right, at that point,
0:10:36they have another thing where they can go, "Oh, look, and they forced us to do this because
0:10:41we care about our community," that kind of thing.
0:10:43But the fight goes on in the courts. Also, they're trying to get a restraining order,
0:10:49right? So you want to have that play out because if you don't have to do it, if the court forces
0:10:53Apple to keep their developer accounts alive in some fashion—
0:10:58And that's like wins all around for Epic because they keep making more money, which they are.
0:11:02I think they said like half of their transactions over the last little while have gone through
0:11:07their own system and not the iOS system. So they're making a ton of money out of this.
0:11:12And then it's like more fuel for the fire, right? Because a court stepped in and said,
0:11:16"That's not fair, Apple." That's what they want to happen, right?
0:11:19And if the court doesn't step in, then the question is, what will they do? Because they've
0:11:26made the fact that they're marketing that this is the end, basically. But again, that
0:11:31may be completely disingenuous. I don't believe anything Epic says, right? Because they are
0:11:36playing a game here. And their marketing is part of the game. So I don't actually believe
0:11:40when they say, "Oh, this is the end." I don't believe them. It may be, and that may be their
0:11:44strategy, but I certainly don't lend it any extra credence. So they think, you know, I
0:11:56don't know. The risk to them is pretty great. And I don't believe them relenting changes
0:12:03their argument at all in terms of their court case, which is, "We tried to do this. They
0:12:08forced us to back out of it." All of these things still apply. I don't actually think
0:12:14it makes an appreciable difference to the case that they're trying to make. In fact,
0:12:18it may strengthen their case to say that we had to relent because Apple threatened all
0:12:24of these other things if we went through to it. But I also think it's the only card Apple
0:12:29has to play is what they did. And this is a bad analogy, but if I own a chain of grocery
0:12:39stores and you shoplift in one of my grocery stores, I don't just ban you from the one
0:12:45store, right? I ban you from all my stores. If I have jewelry stores and you rob one of
0:12:51my stores, you don't get to come back in the other stores. And I know this is an imperfect
0:12:56analogy, but what is Apple supposed to do? One of their developers specifically, antagonistically,
0:13:05knowingly broke the rules. As the rulemaker, and again, Apple hides behind its rules a
0:13:13lot, and I think it's often very disingenuous because it says, "Well, we're just enforcing
0:13:17the rules," but they make the rules. They're responsible for the rules. But to have somebody
0:13:20roll in and say, "We're just going to ignore your rules. Try to stop us," I think you have
0:13:25to respond. I think you have to say, "No," because it's not just even epic. It's literally
0:13:31everybody else if they don't do it. And so this is the only move Apple can make is say,
0:13:38"Look, if you are going to ignore our rules, we're going to lower the boom," but I think
0:13:43it's really important that Apple said, "All you have to do to solve this is turn, is revert.
0:13:49You don't have to drop your lawsuit. You don't have to do any of these other things. You
0:13:51need to revert to the version that doesn't break the rules." That's it. That's all. And
0:13:58I think that's Apple's essentially last move, and then it's either up to the courts or Epic
0:14:04to make the next move.
0:14:05Well, actually, I think it's not great, right? Because, you know, we spoke about this. My
0:14:10point still stands. I think Apple should make changes, and it should look like it's coming
0:14:18from them rather than them being forced one way or another. But I actually, I agree. Like,
0:14:22this is what they should do, because what you can't have other developers see, that
0:14:28if you break the rules, you can get what you want. That's not how rules work. You can't
0:14:36do that. And again, I fundamentally disagree with the rules. Like, the rules need to change
0:14:43now. But for as long as the rules are what they are, well, Apple will have to make a
0:14:49point of anybody that willingly, openly, and fragrantly—is it "fragrantly" or "fragrantly"?
0:14:56I can't say that word, though. I can't say it with the "L." I just found that one out.
0:15:02Interesting. It's good no one can hear me say this. We're all the one in the woods.
0:15:05Yeah, if Myke says a word in the woods, does it actually—does anyone hear it?
0:15:10Nobody, luckily, except you, and you won't make fun of me.
0:15:12No, I am making surreptitious title suggestions on this tree over here.
0:15:17Just chiseling them in.
0:15:19Asclimation point, "S."
0:15:22So, like, because they aren't breaking them so publicly?
0:15:27Yeah.
0:15:29So fragrantly?
0:15:30Yeah, what are you supposed to do? Again, I don't love Apple's rules, and I do think
0:15:34Apple needs to change. I'm not on Apple's side in the sense of everything Apple does
0:15:38good, but if you're the rulemaker and you've got all these people and somebody breaks your
0:15:42rules, if you ignore the rules, why do we even have the rules at that point? And it's
0:15:48either you're selectively enforcing the rules, which is really bad, or there are no rules,
0:15:53which is also bad. So I think they had to respond, and I think that the reason it's
0:15:57worded the way it is, which is just revert your app to before you had the in-app purchase
0:16:03thing that breaks the rules, that's in there for them to say, "We're not asking you
0:16:08to do anything else. We're not asking you to stop suing us." Right? Like, they could
0:16:13have said, "Drop all lawsuits and we'll..." But, you know, they didn't. So is it a threat?
0:16:21Yes, it is. Is it... You know, they were saying that this is retaliation. And I don't think
0:16:30it is. I don't think it's retaliation. I think it's cause and effect. And that's the difference.
0:16:34Like, I don't think Apple is retaliating in the sense that, "Oh, boy, because you sued
0:16:41us, we're coming to get you." I think Apple is trying to look like they are following
0:16:47what would happen in any situation like this, even though it's not the case.
0:16:51I think the problem is, I can't remember any "case law" of this. Because developers have
0:17:01broken the rules. You remember all those, like the Facebook thing?
0:17:04Oh, yeah. Facebook, Uber.
0:17:06Uber. And Apple's never publicly said, "We're going to kick you out of the App Store."
0:17:12I think with Uber, maybe that did happen.
0:17:15I think there was a report of stuff that Tim Cook said on the phone, right? The issue,
0:17:22the difference is, Apple gave this as a press quote to press outlets, right?
0:17:29Because this is all happening publicly. But I think the hammer is back there, and I would
0:17:33be unsurprised if it has not been wielded at times in those phone calls, those unpleasant
0:17:40phone calls that you get from somebody high up at Apple who says, "Look, you gotta cut
0:17:44this out." Because Apple does hold the hammer. It's not like Uber won't work on the iPhone
0:17:52through a web browser, but you don't want to use the web browser, you want to use the
0:17:55app. Or maybe it doesn't work. I don't know. Facebook will work on a web browser if it
0:17:58comes to that. But you gotta have rules, right? You gotta put your foot down if you're Apple
0:18:02at some point and say, "We can and should debate the rules." Because you and I both
0:18:09said, "I don't like the rules. I think Apple's rules are too restrictive." And I think that
0:18:15Apple's visibility here and their PR visibility is really bad. At the same time, the system
0:18:24is what it is right now, and I think Apple has to say, "Look, you're violating the rules."
0:18:32And that's not an unreasonable thing for them to do, to say, "You're violating the rules."
0:18:37And, essentially, stop violating the rules and continue to sue us, essentially, right?
0:18:43Because I do think that the lawsuit should continue regardless because, essentially,
0:18:47Epic has been prevented from doing the thing they wanted to do by Apple. And, potentially,
0:18:52Apple's response with bringing the hammer has given them more fodder for their lawsuit.
0:18:58And I think that's fine. But at the same time, Epic is putting... I don't really care if
0:19:02Fortnite comes back in the store or not. That's up to Epic. But it is putting its development
0:19:06partners at risk. And as several people have pointed out in the last week, the possibility
0:19:13that Unreal Engine is compromised in terms of Apple's platforms is going to cause a chilling
0:19:23effect among some developers. So the longer this goes on, the more harm is done to part
0:19:31of Epic's business. I do wonder, since Epic seems to be very sneaky and has lots of different
0:19:35plans and ploys, I do wonder if they have a plan to spin off Unreal Engine in a separate
0:19:43company or something in order to separate it from what Epic is doing.
0:19:47Yeah, they could do that. They could totally do that.
0:19:49I'm surprised they... Right? And just say, "No, no, they're separate. They're not related
0:19:52to this." Because, again, if I was a client of theirs and relied on them for my business
0:19:56and I cared about Apple's platforms, I would be really mad at them right now.
0:20:01There's blood on the water, though. And this is something Apple doesn't want, right?
0:20:06I think this is one of the reasons that they're lashing out.
0:20:08And as somebody who wants change, I'm glad that this is happening, because this is the
0:20:13only way you're going to get Apple to change anything, is either force them through laws
0:20:17or regulations or make it so bad that they have to change to save face. And so that part
0:20:23of it, I'm actually kind of great about, because this is the only way it's ever going to happen,
0:20:27it seems.
0:20:29There's many reports of companies getting disgruntled, but one of the ones that at least
0:20:35has been public is there's a trade group of newspapers that are saying that they want
0:20:42the cut to be 15%, like they want the Amazon deal. And it's funny because the Wall Street
0:20:49Journal is in there, which is just a funny parallel from, I think we were talking a week
0:20:54or so ago, about them being apparently really super happy with Apple News+, even though
0:20:59the Apple News+ cut is like 50%. But this is about these newspaper developers not wanting
0:21:07to pay 30% on their subscriptions that they get with their users in their own apps, right?
0:21:13They want 15% all the time, not just after the first year. And they're saying Apple is
0:21:20like, "preventing them from investing in quality journalism."
0:21:26Well, I mean, if you've got a payment dispute with Apple, now is the time to get it out there.
0:21:30Yeah, now's the time. Because it maybe is the only time in recent memory where the average
0:21:40person would even be aware of the fact that Apple takes a cut from developers, you know?
0:21:46Because Fortnite's big enough that it may have gotten into more people's purview.
0:21:52Right.
0:21:53So, every great walk, in my opinion, deserves breaks. You know, like I like to take a break
0:22:00every now and again.
0:22:02Yeah, I think we're getting up to the creek here, which is where I wanted to stop instead
0:22:06of camp. So, yeah, we're getting close. We're getting close. We take a break.
0:22:11Okay, then I'll talk to you about ExpressVPN.
0:22:13Oh, good!
0:22:14Just for you, Jason. ExpressVPN lets you access the internet as if you're from a different
0:22:19country. Lots of different streaming services and websites have content that are only available
0:22:24depending on where you are. And with ExpressVPN, you can unlock thousands of new shows and
0:22:29movies from streaming libraries around the globe. There are hundreds of VPNs out there,
0:22:33but ExpressVPN is incredibly fast, so you can stream everything in HD quality with zero
0:22:38buffering. ExpressVPN is available on every device, your phone, your laptop, your tablet,
0:22:43and even on smart TVs as well. ExpressVPN also works with all the streaming services
0:22:48you're going to want to use. Netflix, Amazon Prime, iPlayer, YouTube, many more. And you
0:22:52can choose from over a hundred, from almost, I should say, a hundred different countries.
0:22:56Super simple to use. You just fire up the ExpressVPN app, change your location, hit
0:23:00connect, and refresh the page and the show or the movie that you want to watch will magically
0:23:05appear. As well as video content. I've also found this useful for written content. Being
0:23:11in Europe, there are some websites that never bothered to comply with GDPR, so you try and
0:23:17visit them from a European country and they're like, "Nah, you can't do that." And so
0:23:22you can turn on ExpressVPN and read what you want to read. I've also done this to get
0:23:26Japanese Netflix as well, to watch a show that I wanted to watch. So yeah, it's out
0:23:30there. This is something that you can do. It's very easy to do. And you can try it out
0:23:34for yourself right now. Just go to expressvpn.com/upgrade and you can get an extra three months of Express
0:23:40VPN for free. That's expressvpn.com/upgrade. Thanks to ExpressVPN for their support of
0:23:47Upgrade and Relay FM.
0:23:49Hey Myke, I'm not actually here anymore. I've used a VPN to put me over there by that
0:23:54tree.
0:23:55Oh, sorry. It's very clever. Look at that.
0:23:57I can get tree Netflix now.
0:23:59I wish that you had a better pun than tree Netflix, you know, like some kind of like,
0:24:05maybe like fishing Netflix?
0:24:06Fishing Netflix, yes.
0:24:08There you go. Look at that same brain. We are at the stream.
0:24:12We're at the stream now, right? Okay, we, um, while we're setting up camp, we might
0:24:17as well, you know, talk, but we'll get the tent out. Like, let's do this.
0:24:22Alright.
0:24:23We'll do some fishing Netflix.
0:24:25And we are.
0:24:27Later. Later.
0:24:28Stream. So let me tell you about some stuff that I've been reading, Jason.
0:24:33Sure.
0:24:34There's a couple of Apple TV+ things. They've picked up a movie from Idris Elba. It's a
0:24:39spy movie. This is a, even though this is kind of, this is kind of a strange one because
0:24:45Apple have a first look deal with Idris Elba, but this wasn't that. They won this movie
0:24:51in a bidding war. It's being produced by Elba and Simon Kinberg and Audrey Chun. It's not
0:24:59really anything known about this movie right now, except that Idris Elba's in it and it's
0:25:03a spy movie.
0:25:04A spy movie with romance.
0:25:06Ooh. What a peculiar mix.
0:25:10What a twist.
0:25:12So, you know, I think this is like, you know.
0:25:14Finally. Finally a spy movie with romance.
0:25:16Finally.
0:25:17At long last.
0:25:18This is what we can count on with Apple, some real innovation. I haven't watched it yet,
0:25:21by the way, but I've seen lots of people saying that Ted Lasso's really good.
0:25:26It's so good.
0:25:27Are you seeing some of it?
0:25:28I've watched the first three episodes. And if we weren't out here, I'd be watching episode
0:25:32four right now. It's so good. It's really good. It is. I think everybody's surprised.
0:25:37Looking at the trailer, I thought maybe it would be right in my wheelhouse because it
0:25:41is, you know, it's funny, but it seems like it's got heart and they're kind of headed
0:25:47for the uplifting story about sports team coming together kind of thing. But it's also
0:25:52really kind of warm and genuine. And it's got a lot of the great kind of culture clash
0:25:57things between the American and all the English people. And then it's also like American
0:26:02sports versus English sports culture clash. It's funny. It's sweet. It's yeah, it's really
0:26:09good. If you haven't tried it because you thought, why would I ever watch a show that's
0:26:13based on a commercial? Although to be fair, those commercials were based on a character
0:26:18that they had come up with beforehand, just as a comedy kind of character. And then NBC
0:26:25was like, we have this idea for these promo bits. And they said, well, we could use this
0:26:28character that we've joked about. And that was where it came from. But, you know, in
0:26:33the end, it's a bunch of very talented comedy producers and writers. And they made this
0:26:3910 episode Apple TV, which has now been picked up for a second season. Yeah. Yeah. Apple
0:26:45already picked it up. I feel like those are almost a fait accompli that those Apple TV
0:26:50shows are going to get a second season. But they did after like a week of "Tetlasso" being
0:26:56out there. And the reviews have all been really good, including from some sports related places
0:27:02that would generally, you know, probably frown on fictional sports shows that are silly.
0:27:08But it's good. I like it. "Tetlasso." Yeah. People should check it out.
0:27:12I have a conspiracy theory for you. Oh, OK. So an Upgrading tweeted it was both and said
0:27:20they liked it. And Jason Stedek has faved the tweet, like the tweet. Oh. But this isn't
0:27:26the first time that I've seen this. So I believe it was Karen Pittman who played Mia Jordan
0:27:34on "The Morning Show." I think it was I think it was a similar thing happened. Somebody
0:27:39tweeted or I tweeted about it and she faved it. I wonder if Apple has some kind of like
0:27:48like some kind of like like thing going on here where either they recommend people do
0:27:52this or they get people to do it because I then went to Jason Stedek's Twitter account.
0:28:00Jason Stedek's doesn't tweet at all. There's no tweets on Jason Stedek's Twitter account.
0:28:07But there are lots of likes that don't mention Jason Stedek because they just mentioned Ted
0:28:12Lasso. Hmm. So I wonder if this is like a guerrilla market and campaign type thing or
0:28:20they these people could also just be super pleased about the fact that people like the
0:28:25show. But it's it's a funny thing to me because I've noticed it happen multiple times now
0:28:30where because it is a similar thing for me the last time, which is I didn't mention anybody
0:28:36in the tweet. I think I just tweeted about how good "The Morning Show" was and saw people
0:28:41that were on the show saving the tweet. So I don't know. But I think it's a funny little
0:28:47thing that happened. Yeah, something's going on there. Yep. But I'm looking forward to
0:28:52that one. Oh, production has resumed on for all mankind. There were two episodes left
0:28:56and they're finishing them off now. I think it started last week or something. And this
0:28:59is shot in the U.S. It's shot in Culver City on the Sony lot. So they are apparently again
0:29:06my theory is just everybody stay in space suits the whole time. When I see this stuff
0:29:13about TV and movies, my feeling on it is just like it is a close our eyes, cross our fingers.
0:29:21Yeah, I think there's some truth to that. Although I read an article about it that said
0:29:25that this is a lot of it's what you used to think of as a closed set, which is like for
0:29:30love scenes and things like that. They would do that. Right. Essential personality. So
0:29:36yeah, just like with with sports, actually, they've kind of grouped everybody together.
0:29:40I get the impression that in Hollywood everybody wants to be on the set. And like if you can
0:29:47get near the set, you get on the set. And so what they've done is they've said, OK,
0:29:51we know we have a culture of allowing people to go various places, but now that's going
0:29:55to change. And so there's like the people who need access to the set and the people
0:29:58who need access to the set, like when it's shooting and the people who are going to be
0:30:01here and, you know, we're going to handle the food this way and we're going to handle
0:30:05the makeup this way and the wardrobe this way, like in order to make it safer. So whether
0:30:11it's safe or not is anybody's guess. But I think it's interesting that by all accounts,
0:30:16they are trying really hard to change the way that this stuff is done to minimize the
0:30:20number of people who are in any particular environment. Presumably everybody who is not
0:30:24on camera is masked as well and that there's way fewer people than there used to be around
0:30:29the sets. And I've seen some actors say it's actually a little bit eerie that there are
0:30:33so few people around because you're used to this kind of like a big bustling set. But
0:30:39that's the whole idea here is to minimize the exposure and all that. But you're right.
0:30:42I think there's an aspect of this which is really crossing your fingers and hoping for
0:30:46the best. But that's true. I mean, true of everything. That's true of sports too, right?
0:30:50Where it's like, well, let's see. Let's see how this works. And nobody really knows the
0:30:54answer. But I suppose somebody has to go first and somebody has to give it a try. And this
0:30:58is an interesting one because it's not even a long shoot. They like literally they have
0:31:02two episodes left and then they can wrap the season. So I can see that especially as wanting
0:31:08to get over the finish line. I'm expecting we're going to get this show within kind of
0:31:13the timeframe we would have expected. I think so if they can cap off because presumably
0:31:18they have edited and probably edited and done the effects for the rest of the eight, right?
0:31:25Or at least are on schedule to do that because that was all before it shut down in March.
0:31:29They've had since March to continue post-production on that stuff. And some of the post-production
0:31:34stuff is slower. Like music especially is slower because if you used an orchestra to
0:31:38do your music before, you can't get the musicians together. So they are doing virtual
0:31:42orchestras where everybody's recording their parts separately and then they have to edit
0:31:45it all together, which is really hard. But still they've got time to produce it. So now
0:31:50with these last two episodes, I wonder if they're going to be able to fairly easily
0:31:55kind of start rolling them out remembering that it's also Apple TV. So it's weekly.
0:32:01So they even if they drop the first three episodes, they've got another seven weeks.
0:32:06So they've got another whatever five weeks six weeks before they get to these these
0:32:11two episodes. So if they're lucky enough that these episodes are late in the season
0:32:16gives them more pattern. I bet they don't for the second season. I would be surprised
0:32:22if they if they dropped multiple ones. I think they might have done that just at the
0:32:26start because the service was new. Yeah, except that they still have done it like Ted
0:32:31Lasso dropped three episodes. Oh really? But for a season two, I think you're right.
0:32:35Like that's the question is for season two. Do you need three episodes? And we haven't
0:32:40had a season two on Apple TV. Have we really nothing? So there hasn't been one yet. So
0:32:45I think that's the question is will they drop one episode if I were them I would because
0:32:50I want to ration these, you know live-action episodes that I don't have that many of I
0:32:55don't if I if it's going to be weekly, I don't need the first three now, you know,
0:32:59we watched the first three Ted Lassos over the course of three or four days and then
0:33:03I was queuing up episode 4 and oh, it's not there yet because it drops on Friday and this
0:33:09was like we watched by Monday Tuesday Wednesday and then Thursday comes around and like that
0:33:16episode isn't there like oh, right. This is a weekly show. So they trained me into watching
0:33:20it on demand whenever I wanted and then they had to retrain me into watching it weekly.
0:33:24So I will say I really actually ended up enjoying a lot the waiting for all mankind and from
0:33:30the morning show. I love it. I think I think I know that some people like to watch in a
0:33:35binge, but the beauty is if you wait you can watch it in a binge, but I love the idea of
0:33:39rolling something out initially with that week between episodes because you get to build
0:33:45suspense and talk about it. I couldn't have watched and you can space it. The last half
0:33:50of that season in a binge. It would have been too much. I liked having the room to breathe.
0:33:55So that was good. Reese Witherspoon's next project for Apple TV+ is a music competition
0:34:04show called My Kind of Country. Wow, reality TV, huh? That sentence is like was a surprise
0:34:13to me when I read it. I don't really know enough about Reese Witherspoon. I guess that
0:34:18she's a big fan of country music would be my assumption here. And again, if you're confused
0:34:23about why Reese Witherspoon is attached to this, this is all through her production company
0:34:27Hello Sunshine, which has multiple projects in the works with Apple TV+ by now. She's
0:34:33from Nashville. So you know, that's Music City USA. Didn't know that, but that makes
0:34:40sense. But yeah, so I mean, Witherspoon has been doing just great work here, right? But
0:34:46like the amount of things that she's been able to get going with Apple and others. So
0:34:51like, I'm intrigued about this. It's a, you know, like we talk about this a lot, like
0:34:56having a breath in your catalogue to meet lots of people where they are. And this kind
0:35:04of reality show is something that people love, right? Like music reality shows. I don't
0:35:11know of there being a popular country music focused reality show. So maybe this is a niche
0:35:17to get into. And I guess it makes sense in a way for Apple to want to have content like
0:35:25this. But I guess it would just be remained to be seen if it will work out for them. This
0:35:32kind of show feels like a big investment to do, right?
0:35:35Yeah, and whether this kind of show works on Apple TV+, right? This is, it's a funny
0:35:42thing. Hasan Minhaj's show got cancelled on Netflix. Yeah. And a lot of people, I saw
0:35:52some stories that were like, why doesn't, why doesn't the timely talk show work on Netflix?
0:36:00Because they tried it a bunch and they've all kind of flopped. And I think the answer
0:36:05is that it doesn't fit with Netflix's algorithm or with its audience, or it's not what people
0:36:11want from Netflix. And I think that there's some truth in that. Like, just because there's
0:36:18a kind of TV show that is successful doesn't mean it'll be successful everywhere. Like,
0:36:25you know, John Oliver's show is very successful on HBO as far as I can tell. And people talk
0:36:30about it and like it and I like it a lot. If that was a Netflix show, I think they would
0:36:37have cancelled it after two years or a year and a half. And I don't think, I think it's
0:36:42that simple. It's like Netflix is programming to maximize Netflix's subscriptions and Netflix's
0:36:49audience. And what Netflix looks for is not necessarily what other places look for. Netflix
0:36:55viewers not only are a different group of people, but they're looking for something
0:37:00in particular from Netflix. I don't think people go on Netflix thinking, I want to see
0:37:05this week's episode of a news comedy show. I just, I don't think they do. I don't think
0:37:11people think of next week's anything on Netflix. And that has to do with Netflix and who, what
0:37:18we want out of it. So I say this to say that Apple doing a reality competition show of
0:37:25a kind with my kind of country, it's going to be interesting to see, is that what Apple
0:37:33TV's viewers want from Apple TV Plus? I don't know. And at this point it may be so
0:37:40early in the lifespan of this service that nobody knows or that they're cultivating an
0:37:46audience and they're trying to bring in an audience that's going to watch this. But I
0:37:49think it's a question of what works and what doesn't work on Apple TV Plus in the long
0:37:53haul. Because I do think that the same show put on a network, put on a cable channel,
0:38:00put on HBO, put on Peacock, put on Apple TV Plus, put on CBS All Access, like we'll have
0:38:08a different outcome on every single one of those and it'll be a spectrum.
0:38:13It's dependent on the content that you have that surrounds those shows, right? So I never
0:38:19even really think about going to Netflix to watch a movie. I don't really think about
0:38:24that. For me, Netflix is seasons of stuff that I can watch all of right now.
0:38:32Yeah, and that's the part that I think doesn't get considered enough, which is it's
0:38:36not even necessarily that Netflix doesn't like these kinds of shows because they keep
0:38:41trying them. I think Netflix would love one of them to be successful, but that Netflix
0:38:46is fighting against its own brand identity. Like that Netflix is not the best vehicle
0:38:52for a weekly news-based comedy/satire show.
0:38:59It seems like Patriot Act has probably been their best one so far because they've kept
0:39:04it around. They kept renewing it. What, it was like six seasons, I think?
0:39:08Well, it's six batches, but they only went eight episodes past the initial order. They
0:39:12ordered like 32 episodes and then at some point, like six months ago, they added eight
0:39:17more and then they dropped it. So they made a big commitment up front, but they really
0:39:23didn't fulfill much beyond the initial commitment. And that is actually what happened
0:39:27with the Jill McHale show, which is a very different kind of show and yet also kind of
0:39:32timely. That was his revival of the soup that he used to do, which is basically picking
0:39:37up like reality TV shows of the week and making fun of them. And I love that show. I thought
0:39:42it was hilarious, but they picked it up for one little season.
0:39:45That's a huge show to me.
0:39:46Yeah, well, I mean, essentially, except on Netflix. And it didn't work for Netflix.
0:39:50Clearly, they did order six more episodes, drop them as a binge, which was very weird,
0:39:55I think as an experiment of like, what if we did it and it wasn't timely and we dropped
0:39:58a whole season of it? And then they're like, yeah, that didn't work either. And then
0:40:01they walked away. So I think Netflix would love for something like this to work. I think
0:40:05they would love to have something like a John Oliver or a or a daily show where people came
0:40:12because they wanted to see and it was buzz worthy and all of that. And I think I think
0:40:17this is a case of Netflix maybe of being a victim of its own success, where it's so good
0:40:21at binge watching TV seasons that that's what people come to Netflix for now. And there
0:40:28are turns out there are limits to that and that there's some things that you don't people
0:40:31don't want to get from Netflix. So it's kind of funny because Netflix is the is the death
0:40:36star of TV right now. But this is an interesting example where maybe they just, you know, they
0:40:42can't do it. They can't they can't fit this one into their brand.
0:40:46Has some exciting news for you, Jason. Oh, a text adventure is ready. It's done. The
0:40:52cool text upgrade text adventure. Oh, yeah, we did that. We did the text adventure a little
0:40:56while ago. And it is complete. I've been working on it. Yeah, I know you keep sending me versions
0:41:01of it. Here's the latest. Yep. So it's completed. I listened to the final one today. It's ready
0:41:07to go. August twenty ninth. We're going to have it available for really if our members
0:41:12so this coming weekend to six weekend next weekend, which is a great way for people to
0:41:18if they haven't given upgrade plus a shot yet, but they love to text adventures every
0:41:22year, you can sign up the upgrade plus member and you'll get both upgrade plus and the crossover
0:41:28feed, which is where there's the which is where the text adventure will be found. So
0:41:33we have like this feed is called relay FM crossover and it includes tons of great content
0:41:40from over the years where we've done these specials every year. If you don't know what
0:41:44the Texas venture specials are, then you can find out. I'm also going to play a trailer
0:41:49at the end of this episode that doesn't exist. Oh good. Is that a is why do you I was wondering
0:41:55why you brought the cassette player out? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'll play you a trailer back hanging
0:42:00off your backpack like that, but it's got the text adventure on I get it. So the text
0:42:04adventure is available in the crossover feed where there's lots of other wonderful content
0:42:08and I'm already a member Myke. Why do you keep telling me these things? Well, if you're
0:42:12not and if you don't know where to get it, we got one you go to get upgrade plus dot
0:42:15com Jason you can do that right now if you want to hear that birds get upgrade plus dot
0:42:21com and if you've signed up and you already a member and you wonder where the crossover
0:42:26feed is, there'll be a link in the show notes where you can just tap that sign in and you
0:42:30can immediately subscribe to crossover. I put that link in the in carved on the bark
0:42:35of this tree over here, which is good. Good. Good. The show notes this jury we call show
0:42:40notes. It's really fun. There'll be a trailer at the end of the episode and if you want
0:42:45it, go to get upgrade plus dot com and sign up if you're already really a member, you
0:42:49can get it too. And thank you so much for your support. Also, I know you're really excited
0:42:52about fishing Netflix, but I've got a better idea now. Okay. tree pn it's a tree based
0:42:58VPN. Right. I'd prefer fishing Netflix. Okay, fine. That was funny. Not that tree pn wasn't
0:43:06funny to of course, Jason. Sorry. Sorry. No, three pn was great. It was the best. I don't
0:43:12need your pity. I have one other thing, Jason. I'm really excited about right now. You may
0:43:17remember we raised a ton of money last year for St. Jude Children's Cancer Research Hospital.
0:43:22Mm hmm. I do. We're doing it again. Doing it again. We're partnering with St. Jude once
0:43:26again. We're going to be raising money now and throughout September. So as we get into
0:43:31September, you can expect to hear much more about that and like about St. Jude's mission
0:43:35and the cause because that's something that's near and dear to all of us. And September
0:43:40is childhood cancer awareness month. But you can donate or people could donate now. So
0:43:45you might want to carve into another tree. Jason st. Jude dot org slash relay. I have
0:43:49written that down here already as you were talking with pebbles. I've just spelled it
0:43:54out here along the bank. That's a good one. Creek. People can see it. So the next people
0:43:57who come by will see see the pebbles that say St. Jude dot org slash the slash is a is
0:44:02a stick is really you'd be efficient. St. Jude slash relay. And we're doing the podcast
0:44:08on again on Friday, September 18th from 2 to 8 p.m. Eastern at twitch dot TV slash relay
0:44:13FM. It's a virtual podcast. Yeah. Because you aren't allowed to travel. And that's the
0:44:19only difference is me and Steven in the same place. Everybody else was virtual last time.
0:44:24So it's actually allowing us to do some new and very fun things. We we had already been
0:44:30working on the podcast on. I'm not even kidding. Like from before covered. Right. We started
0:44:36working on it then. So it but we hadn't started too much. So we didn't have to like been a
0:44:42bunch of plans. We were able to adapt a bunch of stuff and we're able to still do things
0:44:46this year that we'd hoped to do last year but couldn't get together in time. We're doing
0:44:50them this year, even though it's all virtual. So I think it's going to be really fun. And
0:44:54what I also like about doing the podcast with on now is I think people will have more time
0:44:59to spend with us to watch it. Right. It's true. So I made a little bit earlier in the day
0:45:05because I'm going to be in London. I didn't want it to go into what would have been I think
0:45:103 or 4 in the morning for me. So we're doing 2 to 8 p.m. Eastern time which ends at 1 in the
0:45:14morning. Yeah. But one I can do three would have been that would have would have gone a
0:45:19little bit loopy towards the end. And are you going to dress up. Of course I am. OK.
0:45:24Me and Adina were talking today about what we were going to wear. Got to dress up. Got to
0:45:30dress up. No it doesn't take that away. But anyway stju.org/relay. We're going to talk about
0:45:35this a bunch. But please go there now. Donate what you can. We want to do it again. We want
0:45:40to raise three hundred and fifteen thousand dollars which I know is a huge amount of money.
0:45:44But we did it last year. So let's do it again. Just tap on the on the stick tap on the stick
0:45:49on the bank of the creek and you'll go there. Do you see that over there. What looks like a little
0:45:56cave or something. Oh yeah. Well we could we could check it out. Let's let's I mean it's a bit
0:46:02of a hike. We're going to walk I think down there and then cross over the stream. But we could do
0:46:07that. I think we should do that. All right. I mean it's it's not nightfall yet. You know we got
0:46:12time before before we have to turn in. So sure. You know thinking about that like going into a
0:46:17cave after having been inside my own little cave. Oh there's a new cave. It's a new cave. New
0:46:24caves are exciting right. Outdoor cave. Yeah because I am in a new cave most of the week now
0:46:30back like I say back. I mean and recording from mega studio like four days a week. I'm working
0:46:36and recording from there now. The only day I don't record from mega studio is is or work from
0:46:42mega studio is Mondays because I'm still working out how I'll do this show from there. Because
0:46:50because we record. I mean I have a couple of shows that I record around the same time in the day
0:46:55that I record upgrade which is like around five or six p.m. But I don't edit them. So like I'm
0:47:01still trying to work out that process because like I'm usually done with upgrade around
0:47:09sometime between nine and 10 p.m. which would then be difficult for coming home and having dinner.
0:47:16It's a tad late. Yes. So I'm still working out. We've we've got some ideas like that could just
0:47:22be a night of the week where we get takeout because we have great takeout options at the studio.
0:47:26Would you do something like record upgrade and then just take the files home? I thought about
0:47:31that but eventually at some point I don't want to have any gear at home for like properly
0:47:38sitting down and recording. So I want to work out the process. Yeah I guess I'm just saying
0:47:43if you could if you could just take the files home and edit at home after dinner instead. I don't
0:47:48know. Yeah I mean that would work. I've already told you I'm not getting up any earlier though.
0:47:52No this is it was never a thing to move it earlier. I would never have asked that wasn't the
0:47:57thing. It was just about me working out my process because I know there's a way to do it. I just
0:48:02sure I've got a couple of options and I just haven't yet worked out which one I want to take.
0:48:09But there isn't like an immediate need because it's like my original plan for the studio
0:48:16is that like we would have been by now all moved in. I would have no gear here except like
0:48:22emergency travel gear. I'd have like a laptop a microphone an XLR cable and a zoom recorder
0:48:28which is just what I would put in my bags whenever I would go away and would record from outside
0:48:34of home. But I never got to do that. I mean it was kind of funny right where like now
0:48:41I can look back on it. I think we'd had the studio lease for like three or four weeks and then
0:48:46went into lockdown. So just you know we've only been I've been recording from there for a couple
0:48:52of weeks now right like and going there like three or four days a week and I'm trying to stick
0:48:57with at least four days a week now. So that's nice. So how's it going to get out and have
0:49:03a place outside because this isn't just the lockdown. I mean before the lockdown before the
0:49:08pandemic you could go out and do things but your work was constrained in your house in
0:49:17Mega office which it seems less Mega now I would imagine.
0:49:25It's like mini office. So you know leaving the pandemic kind of aside for a minute believe it or not
0:49:32and just looking at your work routine you're going for the first time in a long time you're
0:49:38leaving your home for you know several hours several days a week to go somewhere else and
0:49:45work. That's a big change. Because that was it was the thing right like my out of home studio
0:49:51was not informed by lockdown. I made the decision way before then and it was because I wanted
0:49:59I had been I had been working from home for five years and I have come to realize that
0:50:07was all awesome but I want a bit more structure again like I've done it for long enough now
0:50:13where I wanted to change it up and it may be that like in another five years I want to work
0:50:19from home again but will be in a different in a larger home maybe in a larger home right so it
0:50:24will be easier like we only have three main rooms in this house we have like our living room
0:50:32and kitchen which is one room then we have two bedrooms and one of the bedrooms is occupied
0:50:38by the studio and so that means that like all I am in is one of those three rooms all the
0:50:46time basically right and I felt like I needed more room to breathe plus Adina is working
0:50:56with me now like so I have a UK company as well which is like a whole thing and but I
0:51:03walk on up a project through my UK based company and we run that together and it was
0:51:10becoming trickier and trickier for us to both be able to have enough space to work so we
0:51:16had made the decision that we would get an out of home studio so we would have more space
0:51:22to expand and I wanted it to also be like a comfortable place to be because if we were
0:51:28going to do it I mean some of my work days will begin at 10 in the morning and end at
0:51:3410 at night so I wanted it to be a space where we could be comfortable in for long periods
0:51:39of time as well because I have like these weird holes in the middle of my day sometimes
0:51:44right where like I've got all the stuff I need done for the morning but I'm not recording
0:51:49anything for like another three hours so having somewhere comfortable to be during that waiting
0:51:55period of time would also be good.
0:51:57You have like I assume like coffee or tea making things and I don't know do you have
0:52:01a little refrigerator or something in there?
0:52:03We don't yeah but that's the plan we just haven't gotten that yet.
0:52:06We're now like even though we've had the lease on this place for six months we're back
0:52:12to like week seven.
0:52:14Right.
0:52:15Right so the main thing was before we could start really filling it out of everything
0:52:20else we needed is it had to be recording ready and it is now.
0:52:23Hey that is a big cave.
0:52:26That is a big cave this is bigger than mega studio.
0:52:29Oh yeah hey hello!
0:52:31Oh wow.
0:52:34We could explore this cave a little.
0:52:36I mean let's walk into the cave while we're talking I mean it's huge it's like it's
0:52:41barely even a cave this far out this is spectacular all right no you were saying sorry.
0:52:46But yeah so it's been we're still kind of filling it out still working out what we need
0:52:51but like it's been a great change for me mentally now to have this place it's given
0:52:58me renewed energy for work and putting more activity into my day like which I think is
0:53:03helping with my energy right and it's forcing structure for me in a different way and I'm
0:53:10having way more of a feeling of like being home which I haven't had in a long time in
0:53:18the idea of like I'll do that tomorrow I'm home now.
0:53:23Oh yeah yeah.
0:53:25Right and I I'd lost that like I really lost that and so I like having that feeling.
0:53:32Having that feeling again that that's nice.
0:53:35This is one of the reasons believe it or not this is one of the reasons why I shut down
0:53:39my computer when I'm done for the day and then I can close the garage door.
0:53:44Yeah.
0:53:45The door you know not the big rolling garage door but the door to the to the rest of the
0:53:49house in the garage and on a weekend depending on what I'm doing like there are weekends
0:53:55where the computer never comes on and people send me things and I'm like I'll do that
0:54:01when I'm back at the computer and it's just it's not as as dramatic as having it be home
0:54:06and office but putting any barrier between the one and the other can really pay off mentally
0:54:13I think in in forcing you to section your time and and say that's that goes in the other
0:54:19bucket I'm not going to deal with that right now it's just going to wait until later.
0:54:24Yeah I don't know exactly why or how but like I just got not good at separating all
0:54:30that stuff apart you know.
0:54:32Yeah it's hard it's hard when it all mixes together and you're not leaving the house
0:54:36and it's all just kind of running together and it's it's you know kind of more efficient
0:54:40in many ways to just be able to ping pong back and forth but I think that it takes a
0:54:44toll mentally.
0:54:46I mean you mentioned having everyone at home again.
0:54:51Is that changing your work?
0:54:55You know I'd say as much as I talk about my home office and you know being out here
0:55:02in the garage and having this be my my place my domain I used the rest of the house more
0:55:11than I thought and that has been the biggest change for me is I used to do you know to
0:55:21take a break like I talked about that iPad setup I have right where I've got this iPad
0:55:25stand and the keyboard and all of that that's not something I do in the garage that's
0:55:29something I do in the house I take it into the house to the by the kitchen and I stand
0:55:33at the bar and I do it.
0:55:35Well I can't do that because there's people all the time there's always somebody around
0:55:42whereas I used to be able to do that and there was nobody else in the house but me.
0:55:46So that that has been a challenge in the in the summer months when it's a nice day I can
0:55:51go in the backyard and work and that is still you know that's still a great kind of like
0:55:55play shift for me when I'm capable of doing that.
0:55:58So that's been nice when I when I can do that but I've realized that yeah I definitely
0:56:02took advantage of the emptiness of the house to expand my my workspace and different
0:56:09options.
0:56:10Also the pandemic has closed down another one of my place shifting tricks which was
0:56:15going to Starbucks and writing my column which I did a lot just to get you gets me out of
0:56:24the house and puts me in an environment.
0:56:26I think I knew you did that.
0:56:27Oh yeah yeah I've been I've been writing it a you know writing the Macworld column
0:56:31especially at Starbucks not every week but but I was doing that a lot that we used to
0:56:35have a Starbucks within walking distance and it was great and I would just walk over
0:56:38there and then they closed it and I was very sad but I still went maybe every other week
0:56:43ish to one that I could drive to.
0:56:47But obviously pandemic is the end of that.
0:56:50The good thing about that is that you're there and it's like well I'm here.
0:56:53I went to all the effort to come here.
0:56:55It would be awfully stupid if I didn't do what I came here to do which is write my column
0:56:58and it sort of like forces me to focus on doing the job which I find that I find that
0:57:04very not only am I a different place and I'm there's kind of like the hubbub of people
0:57:09and I've also kind of like forced my own hand of saying you know you'll feel really stupid
0:57:15if you leave here having spent an hour sitting here and done nothing and it totally works
0:57:20like I would sit down.
0:57:21That's definitely part of the effect that I'm getting in the studio.
0:57:24Yeah.
0:57:25So I would sit down like I'm not going to waste the time that I'm here because otherwise
0:57:28why am I here and so I would sit down and I would write you know thousand words or whatever
0:57:32in a fairly short amount of time.
0:57:33It was great.
0:57:34Finish my hot chocolate leave maybe pop into the supermarket and then go home and I've
0:57:38lost that.
0:57:39Yeah.
0:57:40Paying a rent on a room really gives you that feeling.
0:57:44More than a hot chocolate at Starbucks.
0:57:46Yeah for sure.
0:57:47Yeah.
0:57:48Yeah.
0:57:49Yeah.
0:57:50No but it is that is one of the effects of that.
0:57:52So anyway that's one of the ways that it's affected me is I'm largely unaffected by this
0:57:56because I work at home but that and I feel very lucky to have my setup here and be very
0:58:03comfortable in it.
0:58:05But there are definitely you know having a lot of people in the house has definitely
0:58:11added added some some complications to that.
0:58:14It's great.
0:58:15It's great having my daughter home.
0:58:18You know it's tough because my son is now doing online classes every day.
0:58:22He is.
0:58:23That's not we bought him a new chair but you know he's sitting at a desk watching Zoom
0:58:29lectures.
0:58:31Yeah.
0:58:33Yeah.
0:58:35But you know that that sounds kind of terrible for him but better than being in school maybe.
0:58:41I think so.
0:58:42I think so.
0:58:43Yeah.
0:58:44I know this is a very different situation for lots of different people but I can imagine
0:58:50that for many parents if they have the choice available to them that's the choice that they
0:58:54would want to be able to take.
0:58:56Right.
0:58:57Right.
0:58:58Well I'm really glad that you're using your you're using your studio because I mean you
0:59:03got up right to the precipice and then everything locked down.
0:59:07And I it's got to be I mean you're you're essentially going to another space that you
0:59:11control.
0:59:12So it's got a lot less stress than if you were going into an office with lots of people
0:59:16it really is your space.
0:59:18And it gives you you know you you've essentially expanded your house in a way right.
0:59:24That is what it feels like.
0:59:28But it's another another home another workspace however you want to describe it.
0:59:32It's a place that you both can go.
0:59:35And it's not the place that you've been.
0:59:39And it probably puts you in a context that is you know more of a even when you're in
0:59:44one of those holes in your schedule you're still at at work right.
0:59:50It's incredibly difficult to buy office furniture right now though.
0:59:55I bet you try and buy a chair right like a good chair or a good desk.
1:00:01Super difficult to do.
1:00:03Really very very difficult to do.
1:00:06Huh.
1:00:07Hey what is that.
1:00:09Do you see that.
1:00:12Over there in the corner.
1:00:13Do you see that.
1:00:14It's kind of dark over there.
1:00:16I just saw something shining like it looks like a door.
1:00:21Let me turn on my flashlight.
1:00:24I didn't know you would have been useful if you could.
1:00:26Well it's my phone.
1:00:28Oh right yeah.
1:00:30Torch sorry torch.
1:00:31Who would want an actual flashlight.
1:00:32Am I right.
1:00:34I think Casey Liss.
1:00:39But yeah I think that it is super super rusty.
1:00:44But is it. How could there be a door in the back of a cave.
1:00:47That's crazy. What is.
1:00:50I feel like we should dash over to that door.
1:00:52Oh let's let's let's do it.
1:00:55Let's dash to the door and while we dashed to the door let me tell you about door dash.
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1:01:34Jason can you tell me a little bit about your door dash experiences.
1:01:37Just to me of course I personally want to know.
1:01:40Well I mean you know that my daughter's done some driving for door dash.
1:01:43Yes.
1:01:44Hilarious and she goes to all these places and gets great food from some of the great restaurants here that it can't serve people more or less anymore in inside.
1:01:53So they instead people order out and we've definitely done that for we did that for Indian food we did that for Chinese food.
1:02:01We did that for a local Mexican restaurant and then it just comes to your door.
1:02:07There is a happy driver that might be my daughter my baby and also it's changed the context of asking my daughter to go out and pick up a takeout order for us is that we say Jamie it's you're going to do or dash for us.
1:02:20Appreciate that does not appreciate she doesn't.
1:02:22But yeah it is it is if you if you are wanting food and you want somebody to literally bring it to your door from a nearby restaurant like that's what it's all about.
1:02:30It's great.
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1:03:01Yeah it is a door.
1:03:03All right.
1:03:04It's like a it's like a ring or something.
1:03:06Let me pull let me pull.
1:03:07Yes stand back.
1:03:08I'm going to hold the hold the hold the light on me.
1:03:10Let me.
1:03:13What is this in a cave.
1:03:18I mean this is finished that that was that's just a rough cave but this is just a like a.
1:03:25Why would there be like a storage room in inside it.
1:03:30I mean I guess I'm going to go once does need storage rooms to let's just don't even say cave monsters.
1:03:35Okay sorry sorry sorry cave.
1:03:38Although this is more like a basement monster would be in here check this out.
1:03:43There's a layer of dust no one's been here in a long time.
1:03:48Oh man.
1:03:49Now look at this old computer.
1:03:51Can you imagine.
1:03:54How much faster an Apple Silicon Mac could be from this computer.
1:03:58It's mind boggling.
1:04:00I mean even a new chart maybe maybe.
1:04:03I've got a whiteboard over here right.
1:04:05I want to draw for you Jason a chart that I saw on on your Verifying website.
1:04:13Do those pens do those dry erase pens even work.
1:04:16That's good enough.
1:04:18All right let's say I mean I suppose it could be a permanent marker and they're not going to know we're here but yeah sure.
1:04:22Draw me a map.
1:04:23Draw me a chart.
1:04:24So I've got an x axis for you here which is power consumption and a y axis is just performance.
1:04:28This was a graph that was shown at a WWDC session.
1:04:33And so we have typical desktops we're going to put in a box here and typical notebooks we're going to put in a box here.
1:04:40And basically the way that I outline this on the graph is saying that a typical desktop is going to consume more power and perform better right.
1:04:48And typical notebooks will have less performance and consume less power.
1:04:51We know this already right.
1:04:53Yes.
1:04:54This is this is the way like this is the two computer classes they are displayed on a graph in this way.
1:04:59Yeah you're doing you're doing that the Apple WWDC slide.
1:05:03Yeah.
1:05:04But on that now I'm just going to take a big big pen and I'm just going to draw a big like hazy area up the top left.
1:05:11Oh least power consumption most performance.
1:05:14And we're just going to label that max of Apple Silicon.
1:05:18OK.
1:05:18Right.
1:05:19Just right.
1:05:20Let's see what you're doing here.
1:05:21In this top corner here.
1:05:23Right.
1:05:24So this is what Apple was trying to show people.
1:05:27They're trying to say that like I guess every Mac of Apple Silicon will perform well and not consume a lot of power.
1:05:34Like what is going on here.
1:05:36Do you think.
1:05:38Well it's it's a Bezos chart in a way.
1:05:43It is a Bezos chart.
1:05:45It is.
1:05:46It's just oh it's good is here and good is here and bad is here.
1:05:54Yeah.
1:05:56I what I find fascinating is that Apple Apple seems to be suggesting that the max with Apple Silicon are going to be faster than existing notebooks but that some will also offer lower power consumption.
1:06:12It's a it's a whole like there's a lot unsaid here and I'm sure it's based on reality but it's also like like you like rub that rub that little upper left thing to make it even more kind of hazy right.
1:06:24Like just take off some of the some of the pen there.
1:06:28But it's intriguing right because it's all positioned above notebooks in terms of performance and it's all positioned to the left of desktops in terms of power consumption.
1:06:39So this is Apple not making any promises while also promising that they're going to have this whole line that's going to use less power than all their desktops and that is going to be more powerful than almost all their notebooks.
1:06:52Yeah, like what they're basically trying to show with this is what our hopes and dreams are which is every chip is better than the one it replaces for what it's supposed to be.
1:07:02Right.
1:07:03Okay, let me draw you a chart that okay.
1:07:04How about that?
1:07:05I'm going to use this part of I'm going to erase this setup skull.
1:07:09I don't know.
1:07:10I'm just going to erase it.
1:07:11I don't know what they're drawn here.
1:07:12Okay.
1:07:13Let's okay, I'm going to draw you a chart of Apple processor performance.
1:07:22So we're going to start here bottom left.
1:07:23I like that you have this all in your brain.
1:07:25Well, of course I do.
1:07:27This is pretty simple.
1:07:29It's like just the processors the A10 and the A11 and the A12 and the A13 right basically a straight line tracking up and to the right.
1:07:39So we can assume from that that like an A14 would just kind of consider continue up.
1:07:46Yeah, so the A14 will be the next chip that we'd find in say the next iPhone the next iPad maybe.
1:07:51Yeah, and maybe that chip is faster than we expect that it's gotten faster the pace of speed boosts have gotten faster maybe but let's just assume it's kind of on on pace.
1:08:04Now I'm going to draw a little circle here under the A13 which is the processor that's in the iPhone 11.
1:08:11Okay, what's that right?
1:08:14Or is that or is it the iPhone 12?
1:08:17I can't I can't read my own writing sometimes.
1:08:19It's the iPhone 11 because iPhone 12 is the next one.
1:08:23Yeah, I think so is the next one that will have the A14 in it.
1:08:26Right.
1:08:27So A13 iPhone 11 this little circle below it.
1:08:29That is that is the top of the line iMac from last year.
1:08:37Okay.
1:08:38So I can draw another little circle above it and it would probably be the top of the line iMac for this year.
1:08:44Right.
1:08:45They're in the ballpark.
1:08:45Hovering around on what is this single core?
1:08:48Single core, right?
1:08:51Well, okay.
1:08:53So first off let's just call it what it is. The fastest iMac is basically as fast as the fastest iPhone.
1:08:59Okay.
1:09:00At single core, which is ridiculous, but that's where we are.
1:09:04Okay.
1:09:05So first thing I'm going to do is say if the A14 is in, you know, maybe the A14 is the basis of not only the iPhone 12 but the new iPads and whenever they come, a new iPad Pro.
1:09:21And they have a certain number of processor cores and there's also a speed boost.
1:09:26We'll get to the processor cores in a second.
1:09:28But like is it is it unreasonable to think that there would be a Mac variant of this that would be faster because that presumably the Macs are going to have cooling in a way that an iPhone and iPad couldn't.
1:09:40So potentially here in single core, you could have like I'm going to draw another big circle up here way above the A14 for the M14.
1:09:49I'm going to call it that.
1:09:50Don't try to stop me.
1:09:52Like, okay, so already even if the even if the new Apple Silicon Macs only have an A14, which they won't.
1:10:01It's already faster than the fastest iMac.
1:10:06Just the just the trend line of a single core.
1:10:09But let's throw in let's throw in multiple cores because, you know, these these iOS processors that Apple's doing are multi core.
1:10:20And probably one of the ways that Apple will make them more conducive to the Mac is at least at the high end is adding more cores to them.
1:10:26Yeah.
1:10:26So if I if I move, you know, we keep that line kind of more or less the same.
1:10:31But we say that it's multi processor performance now, multi core performance.
1:10:34And I can draw in like the Mac Pro is going to be way up here, like the macro 28 core Mac Pro is going to be the king of the hill.
1:10:40OK, but the like an eight core iMac, 10 core iMac, eight core MacBook Pro 16.
1:10:46You know, they're all faster than the A13 because they have more cores, more performance cores.
1:10:54So, OK, fair enough.
1:10:56But I think if you if I draw a line through from like the iPad and iPad Pro with the number of cores in an A14X, let's say on an iPad Pro.
1:11:07Yeah, it's in the ballpark.
1:11:09It's like faster than the MacBook Pro.
1:11:10Yeah, because the current iPad Pros are running the A12Z, which is faster than the A13, though.
1:11:18Right. But a generation behind.
1:11:20Exactly.
1:11:21So we assume that I mean, if you follow those trend lines to an A13Z, if that ever is made, we don't know.
1:11:29Or X.
1:11:30Or X would probably be in the region of that MacBook Pro.
1:11:35Of the MacBook Pro.
1:11:37Right. And then you do if you take it to 14 and use that as the basis and add cores and call the A14X, it's going to be even faster.
1:11:44And again, and here's here's the possibility is imagine now that Apple, what makes it a Mac processor instead of an iPad processor is that they add more cores.
1:11:56Once you start adding more cores, it's very easy to kind of conservatively extrapolate that a Mac and 8 performance core Mac M14 processor is faster than all but the very fastest build to order Mac Pros and iMac Pros.
1:12:20Right. And that's the chip that could go in an iMac.
1:12:25Yeah.
1:12:26Or even a MacBook Pro.
1:12:27Yeah.
1:12:28So so, you know, when you look at my imaginary charts and and Apple's imaginary charts, I think it's just we we everything we do about Apple Silicon is speculative.
1:12:41But if you look at the trends of Apple's processor speed growth over time and then you consider that a Mac variant would probably have more cores.
1:12:50It's really hard to imagine that the Apple Silicon Macs won't be way faster than Intel Max.
1:12:59And I think that's interesting.
1:13:00Like, again, it's all made up.
1:13:02We're making a lot of it's back of an envelope.
1:13:05I mean, I'm doing on a whiteboard here, but it's essentially the back of a napkin kind of calculation.
1:13:08But once I did this calculation, it became apparent to me that, like, we should expect spectacular performance from these systems.
1:13:20I think especially the desktops, because, yes, the laptops will still, I reckon, and I'm sure you do, too, follow the high efficiency and the performance core model that we see in the mobile devices.
1:13:37Right. Although if it's if they do, if one of the first Apple Silicon Macs is a MacBook Pro, that'll have a cooling system in it that I think I think you could put in an iMac and a MacBook Pro.
1:13:48You could put in the same processor, which is which is one that's got more cores, maybe than is in the iPad Pro.
1:13:54Whereas something like a MacBook or a MacBook Air might might have the iPad class processor in it.
1:13:59I don't know. But yes, so you're definitely right there. We have scaled it because laptops, they can put fans in, they can put more performance cores in.
1:14:07But computers that are permanently plugged in, they can put even more in.
1:14:12And if we like we can't even fathom what they might be able to do.
1:14:18We can imagine and we can draw these charts.
1:14:20But like I think until I saw some of these trend lines that you've been putting on this board here for me to see, it didn't really it hadn't clicked for me about the fact that like, well, this is this is this kind of performance that they are getting are from chips that would not be taken and dropped into these new computers.
1:14:44Because we're looking at different types of architectures, right? Like you are looking at fans, you are looking at permanent power.
1:14:51I mean, and in the case of a laptop, a product that people used to plug in in so you can ramp up and ramp down if you need to.
1:15:00You can end up with very different speeds like this. These charts, these trend lines can be blown out of the water.
1:15:08And it's important to remember the developer transition kit that's out there that's that Mac Mini with Apple Silicon in it.
1:15:15I believe that is the A12Z that's in there.
1:15:18So let's just keep in mind that is essentially again, the X and the Z. The difference is one GPU core is turned on that wasn't before.
1:15:26It's essentially the A12 from 2018.
1:15:33It's not even last year's A13. It's an A12.
1:15:38So the developer transition kit is not a great guide to what performance is going to be, other than to say that's what performance is in a computer that essentially we would think of as being almost two years old.
1:15:51So I would imagine that Apple Silicon in Macs is going to be based on the A14 architecture and get all of the benefits of that.
1:16:04So it's going to be way, way more probably than we expect.
1:16:08Now, you know, Apple is going to balance it. You've got to balance battery life and power consumption, all that.
1:16:13But because they've got their efficiency cores and because they've got their performance cores, and that's not something that Intel processors have, that leads to some really interesting potential for them to add a lot of power and use it when it's plugged in, you know, or has a fan going.
1:16:33But also drop away down and get the battery life when you're in other situations.
1:16:38And that's, I don't know, I just I think when you extrapolate out what the growth of the speed of the processors on the iOS side has been and then imagine that it's going to be that and then probably a little bit more on the Mac side.
1:16:54It gets really exciting, like, like almost every I would imagine that every Apple Silicon Mac will be faster by a lot than the model it replaces.
1:17:05But I think it might also be safe to say all of them will be faster than all but a handful of existing Intel Macs.
1:17:14And all at the highest end, right? I think they'll all be faster than everything but the iMac Pro and Mac Pro and maybe the highest end iMacs.
1:17:24But as we know, like, but at some point they will have something to replace that as well.
1:17:30Right. Well, and they say there's a two year transition. I think that's exactly it is that probably the idea of building, they put off the ability, the idea of building a multi multi multi multi core monster processor until later.
1:17:45Right? Like, get the reasonable eight core, eight performance core processor out the door.
1:17:50And then down the road, build your 18 core, whatever it is, monster that goes in the Mac Pro.
1:17:58Just like a bag full of arm chips. Just put them in there. There you go.
1:18:03Speaking of monsters, did you hear that?
1:18:07I don't want to. Yeah, I did hear that. And I don't want to talk about monsters.
1:18:11It could just be an animal or something. I mean, it's not like this is clearly a some sort of abandoned research station.
1:18:16I mean, they're probably it's just an animal, right? Something that opened the door from the cave.
1:18:23No, don't like to sound. Oh, wait, look, hold on a second.
1:18:27There's a there's another door over there. Looks like stairs.
1:18:31I like that. And that is an exit sign that's not lit up. It's right above it. Yeah.
1:18:35Why don't we let's see where the stairs go, maybe and close the door behind us.
1:18:40Yeah. I want to get out of hero and talk about hero.
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1:20:43Eero.com/ahoy, code AHOY. A thanks to Eero for their support of this show and all of Relay FM.
1:20:52Did you hear there's something mechanical going on? Get down, Myke!
1:20:59Whoa! Wow!
1:21:01I guess it's time for Ask A Frank.
1:21:03I guess, what else would we do?
1:21:05I mean...
1:21:06Make fun of lasers again!
1:21:07I guess you never should. You've blown the hard way.
1:21:10Kenneth! Kenneth might be able to help us. Kenneth has a great question actually.
1:21:14People that have listened from episode one, would we consider them to give them the title of "Founding Upgradients"?
1:21:21I don't know. What do you think?
1:21:24I like the idea of a distinction for people that have been here since the very beginning.
1:21:31Sure.
1:21:32But the problem is, how do you prove it?
1:21:35Maybe if you were, yeah, you were mentioned on an early episode.
1:21:38So on the TV Talk Machine, which we did for, Tim Goodman and I did for years, and he did for years before that,
1:21:45we would have what we just called the OG listeners who had been there.
1:21:51And the reason we knew that they were OG listeners is because they had been on an early episode.
1:21:56Like they had a letter read or something. And that helps if you can tie it back to that.
1:22:02Like if you invented the word "upgradient," then you're definitely an original upgradian.
1:22:08I'd say original. I'd say original upgradients.
1:22:10Original's good.
1:22:11I like it. More than founding.
1:22:12We are the founding upgradients.
1:22:14We founded, yeah, Upgrade, and then you were original upgradients, maybe? I don't know.
1:22:18Yeah, I like that.
1:22:19Yeah, if you can, if people can prove to us that they've been around since the beginning, or very close to the beginning,
1:22:26they can get the title "Original Upgradient."
1:22:28All right, we're going to go to the next stairwell. There's a break. There's a pattern in the lasers. There's a break in it.
1:22:34Okay.
1:22:35On my signal. Ready?
1:22:36Yep.
1:22:37Now!
1:22:38Okay.
1:22:39Okay, while we're sitting here, I'm ready for another question.
1:22:45Ian says, "When reviewing videos and films, like media basically, for podcasts, do you do it in your office, or do you watch in your lounge?"
1:22:56I don't know what a lounge is. I don't have one of those.
1:22:59Okay. What do you call the room where you have your TV and your...
1:23:03The living room.
1:23:04Living room? Okay, living room. Do you not lounge in the living room?
1:23:08I lounge wherever I am.
1:23:11Wherever I lay my hat is my lounge.
1:23:14Mostly it is in the living room. Sometimes not. And sometimes I will force it on my family. Well, I rarely force the homework on my family. I sometimes force it on my wife.
1:23:27But usually it's good stuff. The bad stuff I sort of have to watch by myself. And that was an advantage when there was nobody in the house speaking of,
1:23:36where I would just come out at lunchtime and I'd watch the thing that I needed to watch.
1:23:41Sometimes these days we'll do... Like I watched an episode of a TV show in the backyard the other day.
1:23:49Because that's where I was and the other spaces in the house were being taken up by other people. And that's fine too.
1:23:56But I'm mostly, when I'm reviewing stuff for a podcast, when I'm doing the homework, it's mostly in the living room on the big TV.
1:24:06Same for me. I still want to be able to relax to watch the program so I can actually watch it properly.
1:24:16I want to be able to relax and watch it so I'm in the right frame of mind. Even though I might be taking notes or have a different thought process while watching the show or the movie,
1:24:26I still want to be comfortable with the best sound system, with the best TV. To get the best experience out of the proper areas.
1:24:35Yeah. I always joke about like, "Oh, I watched this movie as the director intended on an iPhone."
1:24:40No. They don't want that at all and you should try to get it in the ideal kind of circumstance.
1:24:46Okay, we're going to the next level now. Ready, Myke?
1:24:49Ready.
1:24:50Now!
1:24:51Okay, what's the next question?
1:24:55Luke says, "What features would you like to see in a consumer Apple display and what kind of price point do you think it should sit at?"
1:25:04Oh, wow. I want, I mean, features. I want it to be a 5K or above display. I want it to have a camera, a good camera in it.
1:25:21Yes. iPhone level or higher. No lower.
1:25:24I want it to be a Thunderbolt or whatever is the state of the art when it comes out hub so that you can connect a device to it and then connect a bunch of things to the back of the display and have them be connected like with the old Thunderbolt display.
1:25:42Face ID?
1:25:43I would love it if that camera also was a Face ID capable kind of sensor. That would be spectacular if that was the case.
1:25:52And I would like pro display kind of design, right? Or whatever the future Apple design is, right? But like really modern looking.
1:26:04It should look like what the redesigned iMac looks like, whatever that is.
1:26:07Yeah, that's a good point.
1:26:08Yeah.
1:26:09VESA mounting?
1:26:10Sure, optional to VESA mount it, for sure.
1:26:14And then nano texture option.
1:26:17Nano texture option is great. And then in terms of the price point, I would say find a comparable monitor of that size and have it be a bit more than that, but not too much because it's never going to be the cheapest option because it would be an Apple display.
1:26:35But I'd like it to not be too overpriced. That's always my dream with Apple products is please don't overprice it so much that it's impossible for me to buy.
1:26:44Well, it's got to be cheaper than an iMac.
1:26:48That's true.
1:26:49Right. So, I mean, I guess the ideal price point is $1300 to $1500. Like when I say ideal, it's like what do we think they would charge and how much can they charge? And the iMac starts at $1800.
1:27:06Yeah, I mean the LG Ultrafine 27 5K is $1299.
1:27:14So it's got to be around there. Like $1400 maybe? $1500?
1:27:18Yeah.
1:27:19That's about as much as you could get from it because it gets ludicrous, right? Like if you have a display that costs more than a computer when it's consumer grade, right? Like obviously the Pro Display costs more than everything depending on what you're buying.
1:27:34Apple's argument might be that most people should just buy an iMac and that this is for everyone else.
1:27:40You also have to be real. Like there's got to be some kind of realisticness to it still.
1:27:46I would also argue that if it's got an integrated hub and all of that, like they could make it and a good camera and all of that, that it would be like the competition but more expensive but also better in some ways. I don't know. I hope they do one, but I'm still not convinced that they are.
1:28:03Alright, should we go up another floor? We're nearly at the top of the staircase. Maybe we can finally get out of the way from those lasers.
1:28:09Yeah, before we do that, I want to say if touch is supported on the Mac, I want touch on that display and I want it to also connect iOS devices so that I could also attach an iPad to it and it would do touch.
1:28:21Yes, yes and yes.
1:28:23Alright, let's go. Now!
1:28:28James asked, "What's your typical setup for video calls? Which camera do you use? Which microphone do you use?"
1:28:34Wow, I'm using my iMac Pro FaceTime camera because it's 1080 and it looks pretty good and in fact I've got the Logitech external camera and I don't think it looks as good. I don't think the framing is as good. I don't think the metering, the white balance, I don't think any of it is as good.
1:28:52Which one?
1:28:53I'm not really using it anymore.
1:28:54Do you know which Logitech camera you have?
1:28:55It's an old one, old 1080p one that I bought like five years ago and used with my other devices but I started using it with this iMac Pro but I just don't as much anymore unless I need something that I can point in a different direction or mount in a different way.
1:29:09Right.
1:29:10Yeah, and mic, I use my mic that I use for podcasts and my headphones that I use for podcasts. So in my case, that's a Shure SM7B.
1:29:20So when I'm at my desk, I use my microphone which is a Neumann KMS 105. I love that thing. I now have a webcam, the Logitech Brio. There's a bunch of different models of the Brio but it's a 4K webcam. It looks really good.
1:29:44It really helps to have a bit of light if you can get a bit of light on you but that's pretty much the same with all cameras but if you can get a bit of external light it really helps but I do like that camera. That one does a good job and I use that.
1:29:58Or I also will take video calls on my iPad Pro with its camera and using my AirPods. They're like the two different ways that I'll take video calls.
1:30:06I actually did an experiment and I used Camo.
1:30:10I've heard about this.
1:30:12Camo Studio?
1:30:13Yeah.
1:30:14I did a podcast where my iPhone camera was my camera.
1:30:20And that's Reincubate has this app called Camo Studio.
1:30:25And you plug your iPhone in to your Mac and you run Camo Studio on your Mac and now you have a webcam that is your iPhone.
1:30:34It doesn't work with all apps but it works with Zoom and I used it on Zoom and it totally worked and I was able to do some stuff that you can manually zoom it to the right zoom level and all that.
1:30:48And because you're using such a high quality camera you can zoom in a little bit and it doesn't have any impact on the quality of the image.
1:30:56I was pretty impressed with that.
1:30:58It's a bit to set it up.
1:30:59I actually bought a little clip. It's like an iPhone stand clip. So it's clipped back behind my iMac and then I can have it.
1:31:06I can clip the phone into it and kind of hang it over the edge of my iMac and use it as a webcam.
1:31:12And I have used that and that's actually pretty cool.
1:31:14It looks great.
1:31:15It's fiddly and it's a bit of work but it does actually look really good because that's a way better camera than any other camera you're going to get.
1:31:22Oh, definitely.
1:31:23Especially if you use the back camera.
1:31:25Alright, we're almost at the top here.
1:31:27Alright, one more level, right?
1:31:28One more dash.
1:31:29Are you ready?
1:31:30Go!
1:31:31Alright, Lonnie asked, and then we'll get out of here.
1:31:38How do you organize windows on your Mac?
1:31:41Do you use an app like Better Touch Tool or something like that for snapping them?
1:31:44Or do you let them all overlap?
1:31:46Lonnie, I use my windows as Apple intended. I just use them.
1:31:51I don't know what to say.
1:31:53Do you move stuff around to specific places though, like in your mind, do you have your own model of where the windows go?
1:32:00Yeah, Slack goes in the upper left and Audio Hijack in the lower right.
1:32:03And yeah, I have places for some of this stuff to go but I just put it there and I don't have any app to move.
1:32:11I mean, I've got the apps, I just never use them to move things around or snap them.
1:32:15Do you use multiple desktops?
1:32:18I do not.
1:32:20Okay.
1:32:21I am opposed to multiple desktops. They're great for other people but I'm not interested in them at all.
1:32:27Okay, interesting.
1:32:29Two desktops I use.
1:32:31Huh.
1:32:32I have all of my recording stuff on one.
1:32:35So I have Audio Hijack, I have Discord, when we're live I have Safari and Skype.
1:32:42And then on the other one is all my other apps.
1:32:45So like, if I was doing work on the Mac, if it wasn't in a web browser or else.
1:32:49So like all my communication apps are here, so like Messages is here, Slack is here, Email is here, I have Notes, I have OmniFocus, I have Todoist.
1:32:57I have Toggle, sorry.
1:32:59They all live on the other desktop.
1:33:01And they all overlap and I hate it.
1:33:05I don't like Windows.
1:33:11Right, like I like, it's one of my favorite things about iOS.
1:33:16Like I really like the simplicity of iOS.
1:33:19Like I can either be in one app, I can be in two apps.
1:33:22Sometimes one can come in from the side or I just go to the other apps.
1:33:26Like I actually really like that.
1:33:28I like that model.
1:33:29I don't like the way that split screen and full screen work on the Mac.
1:33:33The app is too big.
1:33:35So I will use Windows, windowing.
1:33:39But it looks messy to me and I don't like it.
1:33:42I don't like all these things overlapping.
1:33:44And yeah, it's not my favorite thing about the Mac to be honest.
1:33:48Yeah, I can see that.
1:33:51I think this is one of those cases where I'm just going to admit to being an old school Mac user.
1:33:55And I like multitasking.
1:33:56I like having a bunch of different apps because I use a bunch of different apps.
1:33:59On the iPad I feel differently about it, obviously.
1:34:02That's just how, but on the Mac I like having my different things.
1:34:06Also I've got this huge 27 inch screen.
1:34:08I might think differently about it if I had a smaller screen.
1:34:12But the screen is so huge and there's almost nothing I do that uses the whole screen.
1:34:17So instead I've sort of put different things in different places.
1:34:20And then the dead center is my work space basically.
1:34:25I know you don't like Windows but that's a window right there.
1:34:29I think we can go out of it and get out of here.
1:34:32Well I don't like this window so much I want to get away from this window.
1:34:35Okay well.
1:34:36And on the other side of it.
1:34:39Alright, mine the glass and step on out.
1:34:42It's fine out here, Myke. It's fine. Come on out.
1:34:45Well we didn't get eaten by a monster.
1:34:49We didn't get killed by lasers.
1:34:51So that's a plus in my book.
1:34:53Yeah. Mine are vandalism. We wrote on their whiteboard whatever that was for and broke a window.
1:34:58Oh this window opens. I didn't need to break it at all.
1:35:00Oh well.
1:35:01Send me a bill whoever you are.
1:35:03Sometimes you can't be stopped.
1:35:04Government research facility.
1:35:05Yeah well at least we're out.
1:35:06And there's still some light out. It's not totally dark yet.
1:35:09I bet we can orient back to the campsite from here.
1:35:11Yeah I reckon so.
1:35:12While we're on our way I guess I could play you that text adventure trailer right? On my cassette player.
1:35:19Oh yeah. Press play. Press play on the cassette player.
1:35:23Myke. Gray. Welcome to Z-War.
1:35:33Uh oh. Oh no. It's a zombie. Oh no.
1:35:40You're at the hospital entrance.
1:35:42You're outside the hospital where your sister was admitted nine weeks ago.
1:35:46You may enter to the north. The hospital grounds continue east.
1:35:51Okay I've already got to redo my map. Okay wait a second.
1:35:54That didn't last very long.
1:35:57You read the poorly spelled email you received this morning from your sister.
1:36:03Halp. Zombie. Apocalypse. XOXO. Francis.
1:36:08Looks like you right Myke? It's zombie time.
1:36:11The only real piece of information that we need is what kind of zombies are we dealing with here?
1:36:16Are they like zombie zombies or are they 28 days later zombies?
1:36:21If they're zombie zombies, zombie zombies aren't that big of a problem.
1:36:25I'm hoping it's zombie zombies.
1:36:27You have a fire extinguisher.
1:36:31If we have to use this fire extinguisher to extinguish a fire I'm going to be very disappointed.
1:36:35It turns out this is just a lesson in fire safety this whole adventure.
1:36:40I guess typical style we check this floor right? Like let's not leave the floor.
1:36:45Myke you and I we're like a SWAT team here. We're going to cover our corners and we're going to take it floor by floor.
1:36:51We've got a fire extinguisher just like a good SWAT team.
1:36:55The theater is filled with the shuffling bodies of zombified patients and staff members.
1:37:00There are too many zombies here to fight. Upon seeing you they become agitated and start to close in.
1:37:07Get out. Close the door. Close the door. Don't dead open inside.
1:37:11Reference acknowledged. Zombies begin to enter the kitchen.
1:37:15We're f***ing this round. We shouldn't have opened that door huh?
1:37:18The zombies attack you and bite you and kill you and you die. The end.
1:37:21You open the heavy door and find a chef.
1:37:27Say hello.
1:37:28She says, "You didn't eat anything did you? The chief of staff told me to add vitamin Z to the meatloaf.
1:37:34After that everything just went to hell."
1:37:36No, no. I'm going to turn the dial. Okay?
1:37:41But what I'm saying is we need to do that right now.
1:37:43You have no sense of exploration Myke.
1:37:46You guys may not remember the past text adventures but we've had this conversation before.
1:37:50Set dial to high.
1:37:53The machine hums and the zombie thrashes around.
1:37:56But something goes wrong. The machine starts to smoke and the electrodes catch fire.
1:38:00The zombies eyes burst from their sockets and the power goes out.
1:38:03Are we in darkness now?
1:38:05I can't see anything. It's dark.
1:38:07I guess this is where we use the bullet on ourselves and start over.
1:38:14Or you could just load your save.
1:38:16You manage to escape Z-ward with your life but you'll never forgive yourself for the loss of your sister.
1:38:24The end.
1:38:25Boo!
1:38:26Okay. Okay. Alright.
1:38:28Reload save slot two.
1:38:30I think that's the most judged we've been by the eletron.
1:38:40If you want this text adventure it's available for all Relay FM members in the crossover feed.
1:38:45You can become a member today at GetUpgradePlus.com
1:38:49This is the world's most ambitious text adventure crossover event.
1:39:02Yes. It's not that ambitious but still.
1:39:05Oh that was pretty good.
1:39:06Sounds good right?
1:39:07That's the end of the tape I guess. Can you flip it over? What's on the other side? Anything good on the other side?
1:39:11Oh it is something grey on the other side.
1:39:13Oh I see what you did there.
1:39:16It's the song of the summer.
1:39:17It is.
1:39:18Summer of fun!
1:39:20You hear that bears?
1:39:36Yes.
1:39:38That's the end of the tape.
1:39:40[BLANK_AUDIO]