308: The Adventures of Dr. Icon


00:00:00   [Intro music]

00:00:08   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade episode 308. Today's show is brought to you by PDF Pen from Smile and Fully.

00:00:17   My name is Myke Hurley and I am joined by Mr. Jason Snell. Hi, Jason Snell!

00:00:21   I'm Myke Hurley!

00:00:23   Summer of fun, my friend! Summer of fun! Yeah! It's gonna be a fun one today, man. Oh boy. We do.

00:00:28   We have a fun guest later on in the episode. We're gonna be joined by Steven Hackett and we're gonna

00:00:32   be doing a draft of sorts, kind of. We're gonna be talking about, last time we spoke about the sounds

00:00:39   of macOS Big Sur. This time we're gonna talk about the icons of macOS Big Sur.

00:00:44   Hold them in your mind. Think of them. Imagine them as we paint word pictures of what the icons

00:00:48   look like. But we have a #SnellTalk question, comes from Mark and Mark wants to know, Jason,

00:00:52   if you were to cosplay at Comic-Con, who would you cosplay as?

00:00:57   Okay, something you may not know about me is I don't like wearing costumes.

00:01:01   I don't like dressing up for Halloween. I haven't since I was a little kid.

00:01:05   So, not my favorite. Not my favorite thing. But if I did need to wear a costume at Comic-Con,

00:01:11   I thought about this and I don't have any great answers.

00:01:15   My best answer is probably one of the Doctor Whos. I'm not sure which one.

00:01:24   Maybe Patrick Troughton, the second Doctor. His body shape is not a bad fit for mine,

00:01:31   so maybe I would go with that. So that's my Doctor Who fan's answer. The second Doctor is seen in the

00:01:37   episode "The Two Doctors" because he had gray hair then and I have gray hair, so that would be

00:01:41   perfect. That's what I'll do. That's it. Cosmic Hobo, Patrick Troughton, that's me.

00:01:44   If you would like to send in a SnellTalk question to help us open an episode of Upgrade,

00:01:50   just send out a tweet with the hashtag SnellTalk or use the command question mark SnellTalk in

00:01:54   the Relay FM members Discord and it may be included in a future episode.

00:01:58   Some follow up for you, Jason. This one is kind of like follow out for the rest of the week,

00:02:04   but maybe kind of also in the past. We'll see. So there's just a few things happening this week,

00:02:09   which I think could be interesting and I want to mention we may talk about them on our next episode.

00:02:13   So on Wednesday this week, a bunch of CEOs from technology companies are appearing in front of the

00:02:19   Congress in the US virtually to talk about antitrust complaints. I believe this is Sundar Pichai of

00:02:26   Google, Jeff Bezos of Amazon, Mark Zuckerberg of Facebook and Tim Cook of Apple. I think they're

00:02:31   the four that are going to be appearing in front of the... is it the Congressional Committee,

00:02:39   Subcommittee for Antitrust, I believe is who they're going to be talking to. But I'm intrigued

00:02:44   about this because it's either going to be really interesting or an absolute train wreck.

00:02:49   Because previous congressional hearings with tech CEOs usually devolve into this,

00:02:55   like how does my granddaughter send iMessages kind of conversation. But my hope would be

00:03:02   that they're actually going to have intelligent conversations about antitrust. So yeah, I'm keen

00:03:09   to see what happens with this one. So we may touch on that next week, depending on what happens.

00:03:13   I think it's very likely some interesting stuff about Apple will be discussed.

00:03:18   And then on Thursday, Apple will be replying its quarterly earnings. And I'm intrigued to see if

00:03:23   these two play into each other in any way. Yeah, right. Will Tim have... maybe some of his

00:03:30   pre-determined comments will appear in both places. That wouldn't surprise me. Save a little time.

00:03:35   Because everything Tim says, they've gone over it, right? Tim is a very careful, controlled guy who

00:03:41   they've got the message, they'll control the message. But yeah, we'll see what the COVID-19

00:03:46   effect is on Apple's business too. And there's still not been a macOS public beta. So I don't

00:03:51   know whether that's going to come. They originally said it would be by the end of July and that's

00:03:54   this week, but who knows? We live in strange times. Maybe it'll happen, maybe it won't.

00:03:59   Same for watchOS. But the watchOS one, I wouldn't be surprised if it was later. The macOS one,

00:04:05   it's not new to have public beta for macOS. I think understandably, they kind of held off on

00:04:12   this one because Big Sur was such a top to bottom change that they may have wanted to really make

00:04:17   sure they were confident before they put the public beta out. But have you used much of beta...

00:04:22   is it beta 3 or beta 2 of macOS now? Is it 3? It's developer beta 3. And how is it feeling,

00:04:29   developer beta 3? It feels okay. Some apps are... like preview, I couldn't launch in beta 2.

00:04:37   It would just spin and then crash. And it launches in beta 3. So that's a 100% improvement over beta

00:04:43   2. It seems okay, but I'm not doing my primary work on it or anything. It's basically a stock

00:04:48   laptop with the new OS on it. So it seems fine. It looks great. I have some issues with the icons,

00:04:57   but we'll get to that. That's some great news for you, Jason. There will be new emoji after all.

00:05:03   So we'd previously been talking about the fact that... this is ages ago now... that there would

00:05:08   be no new emoji for 2021 because the Unicode consortium was delaying the agreement of Unicode

00:05:14   14 because of COVID-19. They were deciding they're not going to get together and that all of the

00:05:19   individuals on the board probably had things in their companies that they're a part of. Because

00:05:26   the Unicode consortium is made up of people typically that are a part of larger organisations

00:05:32   like Adobe and Apple, Microsoft and Google. And they were like, "Oh no, we'll just leave it for

00:05:38   a year because we have other things to work on." But there is now the announcement of emoji 13.1

00:05:46   that's going to plug the 2021 gap. So from Emojipedia, "Proposed new emojis for this

00:05:52   interim release include facing clouds, mending heart, heart on fire, faces spiralized,

00:05:57   as well as new gender options for the bearded person emoji." It's going to be a much smaller

00:06:02   emoji release if all the technology companies just follow the 13.1 spec. I mean, of course,

00:06:09   they can do whatever they want really. And maybe more gets added to this in the future,

00:06:13   I don't know, but at least there will be some emoji in 2021 after all. Hooray to everybody.

00:06:20   That's good. The world needs more emojis. And so let's go for it. That sounds good to me.

00:06:27   And it means that my favourite episode of Connected will exist next year. So that's good.

00:06:32   Yeah, in a much, much smaller scope, I reckon. It might only be a mini topic, not a full topic.

00:06:38   That's okay. It's fun. For those who have not heard, Myke and Steven quiz Federico on what

00:06:46   each icon image represents. He has to guess what they mean. And if you haven't heard those,

00:06:52   it's amazing and you should. The Jeremy's they're called now. Named immortalized for Jeremy Burge.

00:07:00   I will put in the show notes a link to the Jeremy's from 2019 in case you want to hear.

00:07:08   It's the best. And a shout out to Jeremy who's somewhere on a boat.

00:07:11   Always. He's always on a boat. Always on a boat.

00:07:16   I have some upstream headlines. They're all Apple focused. The trailer for the second season of For

00:07:23   All Mankind has been released, which was a surprise. Seems like a surprise.

00:07:29   What I've heard is that they've shot much of it, but not all of the season. So they were able to

00:07:35   put a trailer together based on what they've already been working on and producing. I've also

00:07:41   heard that they're coming back to the set soon. I don't know where this is shot. It might be in

00:07:48   Vancouver, in which case Canada is in better shape than the US and they might be in better shape to

00:07:52   resume this. But I don't know where. I don't know. I've heard that they're gearing up to continue to

00:07:58   finish shooting for it. So they it's one of these cases where they I'm sure they don't want to

00:08:05   release a partial season, but they're not quite done, but they've been able to do some of the

00:08:09   production and they obviously are confident enough that they put out a trailer. So that's great.

00:08:13   Love this show. Yeah, I'm really looking forward to it. The trailer itself looks good, right?

00:08:20   It's intense, right? Because it's the 80s and there's like Ronald Reagan and there's the

00:08:24   Soviet threat and it's the Cold War, but then there's a shot of astronauts in spacesuits on

00:08:30   the moon with guns, right? Like, "Ooh, how does that work?" And that's not good.

00:08:36   Yeah. So for all mankind, the Cold War, is it going to get hot on the moon where it's very cold

00:08:42   and hot? I don't know. Yeah, I am very much looking forward to that. That's going to be

00:08:48   really cool. Apple have acquired the rights to Fireball, a documentary from Werner Herzog,

00:08:54   which is an interesting pairing. This... No, I can't wait for it. I can't wait for

00:09:00   Werner Herzog to say, "Inside his home in Philadelphia, John Gruber writes articles."

00:09:07   There we go. I mainly included this link in the show notes today because I knew you would want to

00:09:15   do a Werner Herzog impression. Of course. Fireball explores how shooting stars, meteorites, and deep

00:09:22   impacts have focused the human imagination on other realms and worlds and on our past and future.

00:09:28   When humans came out of a cave 80,000 years ago and looked at the stars, what were they thinking?

00:09:34   That's all I got. So this is another movie,

00:09:38   which is of importance because according to a report from Fast Company, Apple is looking to

00:09:44   vastly increase its feature film catalogue due to the success of Greyhound, which we spoke about

00:09:50   last time. They want to increase their movie output to "Netflix-like levels," according to

00:09:56   sources, potentially looking to have a new movie every month with two to four of these being big,

00:10:01   expensive blockbusters. Think your Scorsese movie that they're working on, right?

00:10:06   And then filling out the rest of this slate with documentaries like the Werner Herzog movie

00:10:11   and festival acquisitions as well. So it feels a little bit like... And I think

00:10:17   the pandemic is the reason why, but I wonder if a change has been made now because it used to be

00:10:22   that there were movies on these streaming services, but they were not great mostly.

00:10:26   It's like that story about Quibi that I think we talked about briefly. Quibi, the story is

00:10:36   that they got everybody's rejected ideas pitched to them. Nobody pitched their A-level ideas to

00:10:42   Quibi, but they had stuff that got rejected and they're like, "All right, well, how about Quibi?"

00:10:45   And Quibi's like, "Yes, please, that's great. You're a star. We'll do this idea." And it's

00:10:49   like, "Yeah, this is the idea no one liked, but great. Pay me." I feel like maybe streaming movies

00:10:55   in general, and I'm not saying there weren't good streaming movies, but that a lot of them was sort

00:10:59   of like it was B-list, C-list stuff where it was maybe it was cheap or maybe it was just an idea

00:11:04   that people didn't like. And it was very rare that I saw a movie on streaming, an original film that

00:11:10   I thought was good. Not that it didn't happen, but it was really rare. And during the pandemic,

00:11:15   they brought a bunch of movies sort of out of theaters and onto streaming, and I've found more

00:11:22   movies that I've watched and enjoyed. I probably watched and enjoyed original streaming movies more

00:11:28   in the last two months than ever before put together. And it makes me think, "You got to

00:11:35   keep this up, right? Like this works. Like having good movies on streaming works." And I know that

00:11:40   there's the theater and there's the potential that at some point the theaters are going to come back

00:11:43   and they're going to have a market to them, but it feels like this is a good approach and that they

00:11:49   should do more of these. And they don't all have to even be expensive blockbusters. I really loved

00:11:53   Andy Samberg's movie "Palm Springs," which is on Hulu. They bought it at Sundance Film Festival,

00:12:00   and it got released in like, I don't know, drive-ins or something, but basically its whole

00:12:03   release was on Hulu. And it was cheap. It was like $5 million, supposedly, to make it. And it was

00:12:11   really good and fun. And I would say there's more variety you can do with streaming movies. They

00:12:19   don't have to be huge blockbusters, but you can have a variety of movies that have a broader

00:12:24   appeal and that maybe are in your A-list and your better B-list ideas. And "Greyhound" was good,

00:12:31   but again, "Greyhound" was going to be in theaters and then it was on Apple TV. So I think Apple

00:12:36   doing this is great. They should do more of it. And I would like to see more movies on streaming

00:12:40   in general from all the services that don't feel like they're the ones that weren't good enough

00:12:44   to be in the theater. I would say, like you mentioned "Palm Springs," I haven't seen that yet,

00:12:48   we're going to watch it soon, but I watched the Eurovision movie this weekend, the Wolf

00:12:52   Arrow Eurovision movie. Right. Similar, like that was a good movie. I enjoyed it. Like I had fun.

00:12:57   Like it didn't feel like the streaming service movie, as you're mentioning, right? Right. So

00:13:04   like, you know, it's like a similar thing for me. Like get good people, have them make good movies,

00:13:08   and make the movies that they want to make, not the movies that nobody else would buy.

00:13:11   But this whole approach, if you're going to do it, now is the time to do it. Because there are

00:13:19   movies out there that you can buy. And if you can do it and make a big enough impact and everyone

00:13:23   makes a ton of money, you will change what it means to release a big movie, right? Like this is,

00:13:30   you've got to imagine for the Netflixes, the Amazons, the Apples of the world,

00:13:35   this is like blood in the water time for the movie industry.

00:13:39   This is the time to spring because the theaters are, we've had so much that's been dictated by

00:13:44   tradition, like, well, the theaters, and now it's, now there's this added level of risk for

00:13:49   any gauge of theatrical release, right? Like even if you say, well, the US is bad now,

00:13:54   but the rest of the world is getting better and all that, the pandemic puts a layer on top of

00:14:00   all of your guesses about what the future of theatrical release is going to be. And as an

00:14:06   executive making movies, you've got to make a calculation about where you can get, maximize

00:14:11   the profit and having risk be part of that calculation, you've got to look at it and be like,

00:14:18   wow, do we really want to put, like, I would imagine those executives are thinking, one,

00:14:24   are there movies that we should pull and just put on streaming? If we can sell them, especially if

00:14:27   the streaming services will pay us, or if it's our streaming service and we gauge it to be worth it.

00:14:32   And second, I, if you're like Marvel, do you look at this and say, why don't we change the

00:14:38   balance here and make fewer movies that are destined for the theater and lean more into

00:14:43   the Disney+ stuff? Because that's a good hedge against the box office. Because even if theaters

00:14:53   come back, box office may not come back. People may not want to go to a movie theater.

00:14:58   At the levels that they used to for a while, if ever. So, yeah, I think it's an interesting time.

00:15:05   And if you're Apple or Netflix or anybody who has money to spend on this kind of content,

00:15:11   do you overpay a little bit in order to get, just take the lunch of the movie theaters and change

00:15:18   everybody's minds about watching movies on streaming to the point where you can deal, like,

00:15:23   almost a death blow to movie theaters? I mean, you can't kill, I don't think any of them are going to

00:15:28   kill them, but they could hurt them. They could hurt them and they could really change the public's

00:15:32   perception of movies at home. Because for a lot of movies, it's a really nice experience to watch

00:15:40   them at home. And I think people are learning that even more now. So I don't know. It's maybe,

00:15:45   it may be a risk worth taking. And I wonder, you know, there are a couple of movies out there now

00:15:51   that are getting like indefinite delays. And like, I wonder, could Apple convince Nolan to give them

00:15:56   Tenet? It seems incredibly unlikely because, you know, he really wants the IMAX. Christopher Nolan

00:16:02   wants things like, you know, IMAX and on film, right? So that seems like it's almost an impossible

00:16:06   thing, but there might be others out there. I'm still baffled that, so Disney has a movie that was

00:16:14   developed at Fox called New Mutants, which is an X-Men movie. It's essentially the last X-Men movie

00:16:21   made at Fox. And now they've been sort of sucked into Marvel. That movie has been delayed and

00:16:28   reshot and delayed and delayed and delayed. I don't know why they haven't just put it on Hulu.

00:16:34   I really don't. They can't put it on Disney Plus. It's, I think it's, if it's not an R,

00:16:39   it's a really hard PG-13. Like it's, it's a horror movie kind of superhero horror movie. But that's

00:16:45   the one that kind of baffles me because it's like, they did it with Hamilton's. Like I know this is a

00:16:48   superhero movie, but first off, it's not really a movie that anybody is dying to see. And it's from

00:16:53   the studio you bought and isn't there anymore, essentially. So I'm surprised that something like

00:16:58   that hasn't happened yet. But you are, I think the longer this goes and the longer the people in the

00:17:06   industry realize that the movie theaters in America aren't coming back this fall, the more you have to

00:17:12   think, is there another place we could put this? Yeah. Like I understand this, the argument,

00:17:17   right? Like of people like Nolan who really want their movies to be in cinemas. But you've got to

00:17:21   ask yourself the question of like, how much do you want your movie to not be seen? Like, what is the

00:17:27   length of time you're willing to go? Will you go six months? Will you go a year? I think Christopher

00:17:32   Nolan will say we'll wait a year if we have to. Yeah, I do think that he will say that. But then

00:17:36   I wonder about James Bond. Yep. That's a big movie that exists out in the world. Delayed for a year.

00:17:43   That's what everyone's going to want. And like, you can't keep pushing that James Bond, like

00:17:49   rock up the hill for too long. Because, you know, I think they've typically done well, but like,

00:17:56   has been, you know, the James Bond series has been mired in financial controversy for years now.

00:18:01   That probably cost a lot of money to make. And it just sitting there is not good. And you could have

00:18:07   an apple roll in and be like, you know, we'll give you X amount of money and give us it. And I

00:18:12   wouldn't be surprised to see James Bond go somewhere, honestly. Because... Yeah, weird,

00:18:18   strange times. But sure. I mean, you and I have advocated here for that's a possibility to just

00:18:22   buy James Bond, right? Like Apple. Yeah, buy the license. Buy MGM and EON and just make James Bond

00:18:32   into an Apple property or something. Like, I don't know. I mean, and again, the finances here are

00:18:37   complicated because movie box office is a huge part of the financial calculation of spending

00:18:42   money to make any movie that's intended for theaters. You get your home video, but you also

00:18:47   get your initial run box office. And the other way to go, we should say, is not to put it on your

00:18:53   streaming service. You put it on your streaming service as a way to build your subscriber base,

00:18:58   because over the long run, you make money because those people are paying you every month or every

00:19:01   year. The other way to go is to do pay-per-view, which they did with like Trolls World Tour,

00:19:06   I think, was done that way. And the idea there is you rent the movie using the existing rental

00:19:11   channels, but those initial run movies are super expensive. Think about how much a family of four

00:19:17   would spend going to a movie theater. That might be 30, 40 bucks. So you put the movie on rental

00:19:24   for 30 bucks or 25 bucks and you're like, $25 rental is ridiculous, but it's also sort of like,

00:19:29   well, yeah, but it's the brand new movie everybody wants to see. And then eventually it'll be

00:19:34   available somewhere else, but not for six months or a year. You're going to have to pay 25 if you

00:19:39   want to see it like that could happen. And that's a different way to go from what Disney did, which

00:19:44   is say, we're going to put Hamilton on our streaming service and the, in the end, it's going to be

00:19:49   worth it because it gets people to try Disney Plus. This episode of Upgrade is brought to you by

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00:20:54   and it took like six months and I was like, oh no, this is bad. And then I had to like deal with

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00:22:13   Summer of fun!

00:22:15   Summer of fun!

00:22:17   Go on, Steven, do it.

00:22:18   Summer of fun!

00:22:21   Steven Hackett is joining us today. We're doing more Mac OS content. So last episode,

00:22:28   we judged and evaluated the changes in the system sounds. This time, we're going to be

00:22:35   judging and evaluating the new system icons in Mac OS Big Sur.

00:22:39   Perfect, perfect for a podcast. Like last week, perfect sound on a podcast. And this week, images.

00:22:47   Yeah, not so easy. I'll put links in the show notes.

00:22:50   Check your chapter art, everybody.

00:22:52   Yeah, I'll put links in the show notes too, if you want to get them at a higher resolution,

00:22:57   so you can really zoom in and see these icons in all of their glory. But we've put those together.

00:23:04   So if you do take a look, you'll see we have the new icons on the left and the icons that

00:23:09   they are replacing on the right. So I think, Jason, you put this together for us today.

00:23:13   I spent some time in Photoshop this morning.

00:23:17   So we're going to have all of those for you in case you want to see them.

00:23:21   And of course, this is going to be draft style.

00:23:24   Of course.

00:23:26   Four rounds. First of good icons, then bad icons. Oh, a couple of rules, because there's always

00:23:34   rules. These icons, the only icons we're picking from must be on a stock install of macOS Big Sur.

00:23:42   No new icons for iWork and iLife. They don't count because I think we found out this morning

00:23:49   that they actually are not in the current version of macOS. Is that right?

00:23:52   That's right. They're not there yet. Also, this is one of those drafts where you can't win.

00:23:57   It's just we're assembling a fun list.

00:23:59   I demand prizes.

00:24:01   You win a moral victory for making the best arguments.

00:24:04   I'll take that. That's enough for me.

00:24:06   Okay.

00:24:06   As guest, Steven, you can feel free to pick first.

00:24:12   Okay.

00:24:14   Starting with the good ones now.

00:24:15   And we should clarify, we're looking at the Applications folder and the Utilities folder.

00:24:19   Right. So not stuff in Core Services or other places.

00:24:23   So I spent a long time this morning getting all the Applications icons ready to go. And

00:24:27   then Steven said, "Wow, you should check out the Utilities folder." And I was like, "Oh, no."

00:24:31   So yeah, it's both. We got both.

00:24:32   We got both. So I'm going to go with my first good pick as Automator.

00:24:39   Oh, yeah. Okay.

00:24:41   So the previous version had Otto, the little automation robot with one eye.

00:24:47   He didn't have a background, just on a clear, transparent floating in space.

00:24:53   He's in a formless white void. Yes.

00:24:56   Yes. Transparent void.

00:24:57   He was in Johnny Ive's room, but Johnny Ive rage quit and the room's available.

00:25:02   He took the room with him. That's the thing.

00:25:05   And so now Otto is standing on what looks like some sort of floor with concentric circles coming

00:25:14   out from his feet. Maybe they're ripples of automation. That's how I think about it.

00:25:19   So the power of automation rippling out from his feet. And I think it looks fantastic because we

00:25:25   get some more depth like he's standing on this floor. It looks really nice. And they do a nice

00:25:29   gradient. So the top right-hand corner of the icon sort of fades to white. Yeah. Automator,

00:25:34   my first pick. I like this pick. I thought about putting this on my list. I couldn't help but think

00:25:40   also that when Apple finally decides that it's not going to support Automator and AppleScript

00:25:45   and macOS anymore, that's a trap door. Oh, no. No. Jason.

00:25:51   Yeah. And it's like it opens up from the center, right? And then he just falls in.

00:25:58   Like at first he tries to use his little pipe to hold on.

00:26:01   That's right. Because he won't fit through the first one. The pipe will save him,

00:26:03   but then they just keep dropping the wider circles until he's gone.

00:26:07   Oh. Well, that was fun.

00:26:10   Well, for a minute. And then you brought robot murder into it.

00:26:16   Yeah, I did. I did. Okay. It's my choice now, isn't it?

00:26:18   Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:26:19   I'm going to go with calculator. Oh.

00:26:21   Yeah. Pick?

00:26:23   Okay. So here, follow me here. The new calculator looks a little bit like a cookie, I will admit.

00:26:29   It's a little cookie that's been decorated by a small child with little M&Ms on it.

00:26:33   Selling it so far.

00:26:34   Yeah. But...

00:26:37   Sounds great.

00:26:37   But the point here is what came before, because the old calculator icon is a travesty.

00:26:43   It looks like a napkin with calculator printed on it. It's just this thin flimsy thing.

00:26:50   Or it looks like literally a screenshot that was turned at an angle. And somebody was like,

00:26:56   "Yeah, that's good enough. That's a calculator." It does have Pi on it, which is okay.

00:27:00   But the new one is like a little cute calculator widget, and it's adorable. And the old one is

00:27:05   super dumb, and I hate it. And every time I look at it, I get angry. And that's why I use Pcalc,

00:27:10   is what I'm saying. So I pick the new calculator. It's a cookie. It's adorable. You can pick those

00:27:15   M&Ms off and eat them.

00:27:16   Are you sure it's not cake, Jason? Are we sure that this isn't cake, this one?

00:27:20   Stop. Stop.

00:27:20   I think it might be cake. I think we found the cake. It's this one. Cake-ulator.

00:27:25   Thin, crispy cake that we call a cookie.

00:27:27   Mm-hmm.

00:27:28   Or a biscuit.

00:27:29   Or a biscuit.

00:27:30   In some places.

00:27:30   This was on my bad list.

00:27:32   You prefer that old garbage calculator icon?

00:27:35   I think the new one is even worse than the bad one from before.

00:27:39   Wow.

00:27:39   I agree with you. The one before is flimsy and kind of lame, and I really don't like the new one.

00:27:47   I'm sorry. It looks like a toy.

00:27:49   It is a toy.

00:27:50   I think the new one is worse than the old one.

00:27:52   Have you used Apple's calculator app? It is a toy. That's hard to argue with.

00:27:55   I'm going to upset everybody with my first pick, I think.

00:27:59   Oh, no.

00:28:00   Mail.

00:28:01   Boo.

00:28:02   There you go. See, I knew it. I knew it.

00:28:04   Myke, this is on my list of good apps icons, too. So don't feel bad.

00:28:08   Why is there such a prominent eagle in the email application?

00:28:12   Yep, that was my entire rationale is a stamp with a giant eagle.

00:28:17   Wait, is that what the E in email stands for?

00:28:20   Is it actually eagle mail?

00:28:22   Did we finally find out?

00:28:23   An eagle?

00:28:24   Well, it's skeuomorphic, Myke, because in the past in America, because of our wide open spaces,

00:28:29   the mail was delivered by the mighty American eagle.

00:28:32   Only the US Postal Service.

00:28:33   Other groups could do other things, but the US Postal Service used eagles

00:28:38   and that was the origin of email.

00:28:40   Oh, man.

00:28:41   Honestly, for a minute there, I was completely on board. I thought you were telling me the truth

00:28:46   about the way that mail was delivered in America because I wouldn't know.

00:28:49   Look, I have a problem in general with this weird, especially thinking of younger people,

00:28:59   how we used the floppy disk icon for save.

00:29:01   Right.

00:29:02   Like, I don't know why email is representative of an envelope and it still is and there's

00:29:06   nothing better we could do, but an envelope icon for email is way better than just a stamp.

00:29:12   I agree.

00:29:15   I don't like the eagle.

00:29:17   I don't love the mail icon.

00:29:18   I don't really love the weird kind of depth and the fact that they've written this very,

00:29:22   very small return address on the back that looks like a mistake unless you look very, very close.

00:29:27   I don't like any of those things about it.

00:29:29   And I do think that what we really should have is something like a, you know,

00:29:33   inappropriate reply all button or something to represent the entire genre of email.

00:29:38   Or a spam message, maybe. Like, you know, I don't know. The spam message of the moment,

00:29:44   you can come up with something. But I do agree that in looking at this next to the old one,

00:29:48   it's like, oh yeah, this is a lot better than the giant eagle stamp.

00:29:52   Sorry fans of the classic email system from the 1800s.

00:29:57   Also, I might tip my hand a little bit to some future pics, but I am a big fan of the visual

00:30:04   consistency of icons between Mac OS and iOS. I think that what Apple's doing here is a good thing

00:30:12   in like, you know, we're trying to unify some of the iconography a little bit.

00:30:17   And so I think changing this email icon to the actual what we consider quote unquote email icon

00:30:25   is better. Like there are so many email apps that use envelopes or paper planes, right?

00:30:30   None of them use an eagle stamp. So it's time to move away from the eagle stamp.

00:30:33   Wow. I like to think that my email is majestic and signifies freedom, but whatever.

00:30:40   Let's just put an American flag on that envelope, Steven.

00:30:43   USA. USA.

00:30:46   This is a weird time to be proud. I'm just gonna say.

00:30:51   Oh yeah.

00:30:54   Moving on Steven.

00:30:56   My second good icon. I'm going to go to the utilities folder and I'm going to pick

00:31:03   color sync utility.

00:31:04   Okay.

00:31:06   So the, the main part of the artwork is the same. It's a little wrench and a flathead

00:31:12   screwdriver, and it's got the C color sync logo sort of in the middle, but they've shrunk it down

00:31:18   and put it on like Myke, you said this consistent round rec background. And now that round rec

00:31:24   background has a gradient to it and the gradient matches up with the color inside the sea.

00:31:29   That's nice.

00:31:30   I think it's really nice looking. A lot of color. It's pretty color sync utility. It's

00:31:35   my second choice and I'm very happy with it.

00:31:37   In a world full of in to look ahead to our bad selections in a world full of

00:31:44   nondescript white icon round recs. They didn't do that here. They're like, oh, it's color.

00:31:50   It should be colorful. And they made it this delightfully rainbow kind of thing. And I

00:31:55   agree. I like this one a lot.

00:31:57   It's a party in an icon.

00:31:58   It's a party for your eyes.

00:31:59   Yeah.

00:32:01   And that's what you want from color sync utility and apps that almost nobody will ever open.

00:32:05   What does it do?

00:32:07   Color sync. It's like color management. It will make your like color profiles for your

00:32:13   monitors and your printers and things and make sure that they all it's important technology

00:32:16   for people in professional publishing.

00:32:18   Is it like that stuff I always used to see advertised in like Mac world where you would

00:32:22   put this little thing on your display and it would try and get the color.

00:32:25   Yeah. Yes.

00:32:27   Apple even had a bunch of displays with color sync in the name where they did it from the

00:32:32   factory and it didn't move. And of course it did, which is why those products existed.

00:32:36   But again, most people don't ever open this. People don't know what it is. But I like that

00:32:42   someone took the time to make the icon all colorful and bright. All right. Speaking of

00:32:47   apps no one will ever use, stickies is my choice for a nice icon in Big Sur.

00:32:54   The new stickies icon is a stack of sticky notes with rounded rectangles, but it also

00:32:59   looks like a stack, which I really like. I actually would love a stack of rounded rectangle

00:33:05   sticky notes. I think it looks really cool. Written on it with some sort of a marker are

00:33:12   the to do items, milk, eggs, and bread. I'd like to think that that's a reference to Remember

00:33:17   the Milk, one of the great Steven Hackett apps of history.

00:33:23   All want to know what happened to Lou.

00:33:25   This is so okay, Myke, Myke, don't don't don't jump ahead here. The old icon had eggs and

00:33:30   milk but no bread and a phone number for Lou. I am sorry to report Lou passed away.

00:33:35   No!

00:33:35   So rest in peace, Lou. Don't call 555-7361. He's not there anymore. Anyway, in honor of

00:33:42   Lou, the new stickies icon is my choice.

00:33:45   Is bread. That's the honor. Lou like bread. Maybe Lou is a baker.

00:33:49   They needed some bread for the funeral.

00:33:52   Oh, Jason.

00:33:53   Jason.

00:33:54   Sorry, Lou. We love you.

00:33:57   Dead bodies get crusty, you know.

00:34:00   No, they just they put out a spread at the at the at the wake and there's bread.

00:34:04   Any eggs and milk there?

00:34:06   Stop. We're done.

00:34:07   I like the stickies one too. Stickies is one of those applications that every year I think

00:34:12   it's the year that it's going to go, but it survived.

00:34:16   It doesn't go.

00:34:16   The move to OS X survived 64-bit. Now it is here it is in Big Sur.

00:34:21   I opened it in Big Sur to look at it just to see if like anything had changed at all

00:34:28   or if it still feels incredibly old, which the answer is it does. And I had that thought,

00:34:32   which is, you know, why don't they get like an intern or something to add like because

00:34:38   people use stickies. They do. They use stickies instead of notes, which I think is weird,

00:34:42   but it's like, OK, well, then have an intern like add iCloud support to stickies or something

00:34:48   so that you could like sync your stickies across your devices and like make a modern

00:34:52   version of sticky.

00:34:52   You know what stickies would be good for now? A widget on iOS.

00:34:56   Little stickies, right?

00:34:58   Like I understand why people use stickies because it has some good functionality like

00:35:03   the always on top. Right. You know, like if it still has that. I mean, so you stay to

00:35:08   use it for myself because you could it would effectively work as this different layer to

00:35:14   the rest of the system. Right. So it's pretty much like a sticky note always in your face.

00:35:18   So, you know, it's good for that. I'm happy that it exists, but I agree. I think.

00:35:24   It's not a big opportunity for someone, right, or a big opportunity for Apple,

00:35:29   but there is something that they could do with this, which is missed

00:35:31   or they could add that functionality to notes. But I think it's telling that stickies just

00:35:36   continues to push along because and I know people do use it and maybe get Luda updated.

00:35:43   Well, I think stickies is one of those applications that Apple might be like scared to remove,

00:35:49   right, because they know like they'll be like a really strong vocal minority of people that

00:35:53   would get. Oh, yeah, there's gonna be, you know, there's gonna be a verge article by somebody on

00:35:56   the staff at the verge is like I use stickies every day to track all of my articles and now

00:36:01   Apple has ruined. It's a disaster. I lost my most recent draft because Apple removed stickies.

00:36:06   The outline would have written that article, but unfortunately I don't think they were there

00:36:10   around anymore. Is the outline still around? No. No. No. Okay. I don't think so. If they are,

00:36:15   they fired their staff, but yeah, they're basically not around. Myke, what's your,

00:36:19   see, I'm glad that this is the positive part. Everybody. This is the positive part of the draft.

00:36:23   Myke, what's your next good icon selection? Messages. Similar to my original argument for

00:36:30   mail. What I like about messages is that it's the same application on iOS and finally has the same

00:36:37   icon. I'm not really sure why messages stuck around with its name as messages, but had the

00:36:44   blue icon with the other little dot dot dot icon, which some could argue is maybe a better icon for

00:36:51   messages overall because green is funny because green is the green bubble friend. But nevertheless,

00:36:57   I am happy that messages is now consistent, but I actually also just do like the messages icon

00:37:04   on big Sur. I like the shading that they've done to it to make it really kind of stand out. So I'm

00:37:10   a big fan of the messages icon. I don't know whether I should list all the reasons why I

00:37:15   hate the messages icon here or just save it for the bad draft. Save it for the bad part.

00:37:20   Save it. If you're going to put it in your bad list, then save it for the bad part. If

00:37:24   you're not going to put it in your bad list and do it now, I'll save it. All right. Oh,

00:37:29   wow. Yeah. Little teaser for what's to come. I feel strongly about that one. So yes. Okay.

00:37:34   Back to Steven. Back to me. I am going to go with image capture as my next good pick. It retained

00:37:46   the digital camera. It looks like the same digital camera as before, but before it was sitting on

00:37:53   these black and white photos. It's like, which doesn't make any sense because you're scanning

00:37:57   them. It kind of looks like, is it like, are they emerging from it? Is it like a polaroid?

00:38:02   What is happening there? Oh yeah. And I think most people use image capture to scan as opposed to

00:38:08   inserting an SD card and pulling things off. So the new one does a couple of things. A,

00:38:15   it uses the round rect, but smaller in the background. It has a grid of images with a

00:38:20   red one circled as if you were looking at a sheet of negatives or something that you're scanning

00:38:25   maybe. And the camera's still there and it breaks out of the round rect a little bit.

00:38:29   So it keeps its slightly unusual shape, but I think it looks really nice. I really like what

00:38:35   they did with it. And I'm glad that image capture is still around because I scan stuff all the time.

00:38:40   I use image capture pretty frequently and I'm glad that it looks a little better now. I mean,

00:38:46   the app still looks bad. Like the app didn't change any, but it's got this fancy new icon

00:38:50   and I like the detail on this one a lot. This was on my list. There's something I do not like

00:38:55   about image capture, which is the little red circle around one of the images. What's how you

00:39:01   would like mark up a sheet of negatives? Like, Oh, I want this one in the newspaper today. Right.

00:39:05   But you were saying that this is good because it shows what it actually is rather than what

00:39:10   it is rather than pretending to be something it's not, which is printing. So you wouldn't

00:39:14   draw on your screen, you know, like this is the one I want. Don't like it.

00:39:19   I don't know. It's the metaphor of it because you're selecting one and then you can, you can

00:39:22   import that one using image capture. I, this was on my list, Steven. I agree with you. I thought

00:39:27   this was a really good, not only is the new one pretty good, but the old one, the longer you look

00:39:33   at it, the more questions you have about what's happening. What I do like about this icon,

00:39:39   I don't dislike this icon. I find the red part weird, but I, what I like about this icon is

00:39:43   something I like about a lot of the big Sur icons is that they have the rounded rectangle,

00:39:48   but don't necessarily stay inside of it. I think that that's quite a nice touch for a lot of these

00:39:54   where there is the round rec and then there is some familiar part of it, which pokes out a little

00:39:59   bit. So like, I don't know if we mentioned this for automated, but Otto's head kind of point,

00:40:04   like pokes out at the top of the round right there too. So I like that where it's like,

00:40:08   we have this rounded rectangle, uh, some apps for some reason stay inside it too much, but a lot of

00:40:14   them pop out of the rounded rectangle with some kind of fun element. So that's, that is one of my

00:40:19   favorite things about some of the, the, uh, the icons in big Sur. And that keeps it Mac like where

00:40:26   you have icons of any shape really. And so it does keep it Mac like while bringing it mostly in line

00:40:34   with iOS. So yeah, I like that too. I think they've, they've had a nice distinction there

00:40:38   in this new design. All right. I'm going to make what apparently is a somewhat controversial choice,

00:40:46   but I have to make it, which is music. I'm going to choose the music app. Come on. And here's,

00:40:52   here's why. Yeah. Yeah. I know. I hear you. And here's what I say. The world is full of stupid

00:40:57   neutral background icons. I can't tell one icon from another. Now I know I can look at the red

00:41:04   icon with the big musical note in it. And I have my music app. Whereas before it's like, Oh,

00:41:09   which of the long list of white background or light gray gradient background icons can I choose?

00:41:16   Oh, there's this one. That's got the musical note with the super weird color gradient. And yes,

00:41:20   I can see those colors, uh, be gone, be gone. Uh, very simple, clear outline of the musical note,

00:41:27   uh, red background, instead of being confused with all the other white backgrounds. I like it.

00:41:31   I'm very happy that Apple has finally given us the, what essentially is the iOS nine icon for

00:41:37   music, uh, back. And now it's on the Mac too. It's great. I will save my points about this icon for a

00:41:44   little bit later on. I see what you're doing. It's fair. It's fair. Is it my turn now? It is. Text

00:41:52   edit. Do you know why I'm picking text at it? It has an incredibly detailed mechanical pencil,

00:41:58   uh, on the icon. It does. I was going to ask you separately about to comment cause there are two,

00:42:03   there's a mechanical pencil for text edit and there's a pen on the script editor utility.

00:42:08   And I was, I definitely want your thoughts about these, uh, these, uh, these devices. It didn't

00:42:14   really change much, Myke. I mean, it's, it's a little bit bigger, but like, I feel like out of

00:42:19   all the icons, like this one isn't a huge change. Like why the pencil now? Well, I, I wanted to just

00:42:24   say, uh, Jason, it's a mechanical pencil on both. It's just a different color. Oh, is it? Yeah. Oh,

00:42:29   I thought it was a pen. Oh, is it? Is it the same one? One is dark gray. Yeah. So what I'll say is

00:42:33   I will, I can tell you like definitely yes, the mechanical pencil is basically the same from

00:42:39   the, from version to version, but it has the same thing that I like about some of the other icons

00:42:45   where it's taken, I think a nice interpretation of a line piece of paper and made that the

00:42:51   rounded rack, and then the pencil kind of sticks out from the top and bottom. So I like the way

00:42:56   that this icon looks. I think it's not a huge difference, but an improvement that I like.

00:43:01   But I also just wanted to talk about the mechanical pencil a little bit that is featured

00:43:05   on both of these icons, uh, because I have some good points and I have some questions that I would

00:43:10   love somebody to answer. There's no rule against it, Steven. We have to let him do this. Yep. So

00:43:14   I know the grip is really cool. Clearly the pen is made out of some kind of metal. I'm just going

00:43:19   to assume aluminum because it probably makes the most sense here, although it's quite shiny. So,

00:43:23   you know, it could potentially be something like steel or titanium, but it also could just be

00:43:27   really nicely polished aluminum. So, you know, that's up to, up to them really. What I do like

00:43:32   is it has a knurled grip. So, you know, it has those little bumps. You can see the little bumps

00:43:36   if you zoom in that's called knurling when that, when it sticks out like that. I also really liked

00:43:41   the little detail of the stripes, the kind of strips, like the knurled strips that go down to

00:43:45   the end that would actually be very comfortable to hold. Um, I, I like that the one on a script

00:43:52   editor is black potentially that is a DLC coated like what they did to the Apple watch. That's my

00:43:58   own mental model for that one because it looks pretty nice. Uh, but the question I have is that

00:44:03   this looks like it would be a 0.7 pencil lead, which is a bold choice. That is a quite a thick

00:44:11   pencil lead that they've done there. It wouldn't be very good for writing. Um, so, you know,

00:44:16   either for the scribble that they did in script editing or for the text that are about to write

00:44:21   on text editor, it would be quite, quite chunky for, for a pencil. Uh, it's not necessarily what

00:44:26   I would recommend. I would say maybe 0.3 or 0.5 would have been a much better choice. Are you boys

00:44:31   still here or did you leave? Jason, did you go for tea? I'm regretting my choices, but I actually do

00:44:36   have an important note here that I want to mention, Myke, which is if you look where the clip is

00:44:40   compared to where the knurling is, you can see that Apple is cheating here. They've shrunk the length

00:44:45   of this pencil a lot between the old version and the new version. This is a stubby mechanical

00:44:50   pencil while the old one was a more traditionally sized, I would say, pencil. Do you have a problem

00:44:55   with that or do these exist or are they just cheating here? No, because what they've done,

00:44:59   they've made it smaller, which is fine, right? It's fine to have a smaller pencil, but they've

00:45:04   retained the ergonomics. They've kept the grip section the same size so it would still be

00:45:07   comfortable to hold in the hand. I can't believe I had a follow-up question about the pencil,

00:45:11   but I did. There it was. So text edit. Okay, Steven, you got one more good icon pick.

00:45:17   What is it? I've been sitting here thinking a lot about this when Myke was talking, and I am going

00:45:24   to go, I think it could be kind of between two, one that's controversial and one that's maybe not

00:45:32   as controversial. So which way? I'm going to give you all the choice. Should I go, should I create

00:45:37   controversy or should I play nice? Controversy. Yeah, I think the new preview icon is pretty

00:45:46   sweet. It's on my list too, Steven. I don't think that's controversial at all. I think there were

00:45:52   some tweets and stuff when this first showed up that people didn't like the side view of the

00:45:57   looking glass, a little magnification glass. But I really like it because if you zoom into it,

00:46:04   Apple distorts the image really nicely under it. And previously they were just zooming in,

00:46:10   you know, so you could see the corner of the photo better. It's one photo. It's another example of a

00:46:15   round rec with an item in front of it. And I tend to like that style. Like I like the bootcamp one

00:46:20   too. It's a similar type layout. But I like the new preview icon. I like the detail in it.

00:46:27   I like also that it looks like the same photo as in the old icon. So they brought that history

00:46:33   along with it, but again, have modernized it a bit for Big Sur. I don't know. I like it,

00:46:38   but I got a feeling some people don't. I like it. I like the loop that they're using there.

00:46:43   It does look a little more like a, I don't know, like an upside down shot glass or something than

00:46:48   the old loop, which was more cylindrical. This one kind of is tapered, but that's a perfectly

00:46:51   valid style for a loop to zoom in on something. I agree with you. I've been using, so on my laptop

00:46:59   that I've been using with Big Sur, I've had PDFs open in preview. And every time I look at the icon,

00:47:04   I'm like, "Oh, preview. You're different now." But I like you. I like it. Having lived with it,

00:47:09   I think it's good. I think it's simpler without losing any of the sort of flavor that was there

00:47:16   in the old one. And a stack of photos, again, having that photo be in the round rect with a

00:47:22   border, which is adorable, I think it's good. All right. I feel like this is turning into bad icons

00:47:29   in the last version and then bad icons in the next version, but that's what improvement is.

00:47:33   It's improving on something that was bad before. And so my choices now are, I could go to just sort

00:47:40   of general positivity or I could just, I'm going to slag off a bad old icon that's been put away,

00:47:44   and that's the Bluetooth file exchange icon. I don't know if anybody has looked in the utilities

00:47:52   folder at the Bluetooth file exchange icon, but that is some Bluetooth logo. It's huge.

00:47:59   It's white with a blue bevel or stroke applied to it that's kind of a gradient too. It's darker on

00:48:08   the bottom than the top. It looks like a space invader or something. It's coming to get you.

00:48:13   It's on a square that has been put in a perspective. So it's sort of sitting there.

00:48:18   I looked at it for a while for this segment and I thought, every second I looked at it,

00:48:24   I hated it more and more. And the new one is so restrained. It's still the same. It's literally

00:48:29   the same Bluetooth logo. They didn't change the Bluetooth logo, but the edges of it are curved

00:48:34   now, not sharp. You can put an eye out with that thing. They're curved and they're just on a little

00:48:41   pleasant blue round rect. So blue for Bluetooth. That's great. It's just, it's restrained. It's

00:48:47   subtle. It's nice. And the old one is terrible. So I think just in the net benefit of the new

00:48:55   Bluetooth file exchange icon, another app that almost nobody's ever, ever, ever going to use,

00:48:59   but a thumbs up to the icon designer who smoothed out that awful Bluetooth logo and made it look

00:49:08   decent. The old one looks like it was an icon and the back of it fell off. So like the blue

00:49:14   is still upright, but the color fell back and there's like a shadow behind it. That's the

00:49:18   lore of the new one. They just fixed it. Oh yeah. They pushed it back. Well, yeah, but they smoothed

00:49:23   off. They took some sandpaper and they smoothed off. There was some damage. That Bluetooth icon

00:49:27   is so sharp in the old one that that's like a weapon that a Klingon would use or something.

00:49:31   It's very dangerous. So don't, don't, just don't upgrade. You just, just the safety alone of

00:49:37   upgrading to big Sur that you won't hurt yourself on the Bluetooth file exchange icon. It might be

00:49:41   enough to upgrade just there. I'm not really sure why the Bluetooth logo looks like that. Like,

00:49:48   why isn't it a tooth? Right? It's a bee. Well, it's a stylized bee. Yeah, but it's called Bluetooth.

00:49:54   It should have been a tooth. If you turn it 90 degrees clockwise, it kind of looks like pointy

00:49:59   teeth. Maybe. No. That's King Bluetooth's teeth. That's not enough for me. Some, uh, New Year's Eve,

00:50:06   we should all get little, uh, those, you know, that those, uh, glasses that were like for 2001

00:50:11   and 2009 and all that, we should get some Bluetooth glasses. For like the birthday of Bluetooth. And

00:50:16   be like, yay, happy new year, Bluetooth. Happy Bluetooth. Maybe on like an anniversary of the

00:50:21   Bluetooth creation. Sure. Little cardboard glasses. We'll, uh, send, we'll, we'll text each other

00:50:25   things using Bluetooth file exchange. It'd be great. I'm going to pick a weird one now,

00:50:31   I think, or at least one that most people would find boring, but I think is really good.

00:50:36   Launchpad. What is the, what is the old launchpad logo or icon all about? It's a rocket. All right.

00:50:44   So what do you use that application to take off into space? Use it to apps. Launching is itself

00:50:51   a metaphor for like your apps are going into space. I don't know, but that's the metaphor

00:50:56   is launchpad is a launchpad is where the rockets launch off from. Yeah, but that rocket's not on

00:51:02   the launchpad. That launchpad was a long time ago for that rocket. Just like when you launched an

00:51:07   app, the launchpad fades away. The rocket has pulled away from it. The new one looks like,

00:51:11   makes so much more sense because you know what it looks like a grid of app icons and that's what you

00:51:16   want it to be. Yes. You know what? You know what the Apple's operating systems need most of all is

00:51:22   a white background with a series of rainbow shapes on it. There are less white backgrounds now.

00:51:29   You just said that. No, there's less white backgrounds now. It's like how you loved your

00:51:34   terrible music icon because it got rid of the white background. They've lost their, uh,

00:51:38   there's some whimsy in the, in the metaphor that they've lost here. I see what your point,

00:51:42   the new one fits, I think much better, but it's on my bad list. Especially because launchpad

00:51:46   is surely going to become more important. I would expect like in the future with the, uh, like it

00:51:52   might actually not more important, important. It was never important. I think it might become

00:51:57   important with the, uh, with a lot of the changes that are coming to like with Apple Silicon and

00:52:02   launching iOS apps on the Mac. Like it could make more sense to do something with that. Maybe to like

00:52:09   make it better. Um, I think it's a better icon for what it is than launchpad was, which I think has

00:52:16   been, that has been consistent across my picks here is with the exclusion of text edits. Cause

00:52:23   I wanted to talk about mechanical pencil for a couple of minutes, because as I said at the

00:52:27   beginning, what I like about the changes to many of these icons is that they are adding more

00:52:33   consistency to people moving from device to device for where consistency is needed. So mail and

00:52:40   messages, they look like the mail and messages apps that, you know, launchpad is like, Oh,

00:52:44   that's where I get the apps from. Not this is where I set off a rocket from. It's literally,

00:52:50   it's very similar to the home screen icon that shows when you do command tab switching on the

00:52:56   iPad. It is. Yeah. That's a four by four and not a three by three, but they're very similar.

00:53:01   Therefore proving what I'm trying to say, which is like visual consistency makes sense when so much

00:53:08   of the operating system is visual consistency anyway. So I have a thumbs up for me from launchpad.

00:53:14   We can't stop you. Sorry, everybody. I guess. Upgradients. If you no longer want to hear any

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00:54:42   Get upgrade plus.com. All right, bad icon time. Bad icon time. Bad icon time. So what is the idea

00:54:51   behind bad icons? Is things that have gotten worse? Could it be just things we hate in general? What

00:54:57   is the situation here? What's the rules? Whatever you want it to mean. I think the last one was sort

00:55:01   of motivated by improvements versus the last one. And this one is going to be more on the on the

00:55:06   balance of either it was bad and it stayed bad or more likely it was, you know, it got worse

00:55:14   is sort of what I'm thinking. Okay. I feel like overall the utilities folder got bigger hits. Like

00:55:20   they're more bad ones and utilities in the applications folder. And that's where I'm going

00:55:25   to start. And I'm going to start with keychain access. Like color seek utility, it's the same

00:55:31   artwork as before, but now it's in a round rec background. And I looked at this background for

00:55:36   like 20 minutes trying to work out what it is and what I think it is. It's the role. No, I have

00:55:42   something even more specific. It's like the rolling door on a self storage unit. And it's all your

00:55:48   keys. Oh, that's even better. You know what? I don't keep my passwords in a self storage unit.

00:55:53   I don't want to keep them there. But you kind of do though, if you think about it, it's a storage

00:55:57   unit just for yourself. Like a, like a bed, like an office. I mean, I don't know. I don't, I don't

00:56:03   like it. The orange is weird and I like orange. Uh, I just, I wish they had just done something

00:56:08   a little bit simpler here. Hmm. I, yeah, I don't entirely agree. Um, because I do like that

00:56:15   background. Um, I do. I had the same question as you about why it's textured the way it is,

00:56:20   but they have to add some sort of skeuomorphism. However, I will say just like you said about

00:56:24   automator, I think the trend to take these old Mac OS X icons from the ancient days when it was Mac

00:56:30   OS X and put them on backgrounds, put them on radrecks. I kind of like the trend because you

00:56:35   look at some of these icons long enough and you're like, it's just keys floating in space. And now

00:56:40   it's sort of keys in front of a, you know, a texture and a slightly blurry texture. I feel a

00:56:47   little less, uh, disconnected and like floating in a void and that makes me feel better. So, um,

00:56:53   but, but I, I get your point that that, that texture is maybe questionable. Um, I actually

00:56:59   was going to use your pick as an example of a better option than my pick, which is disc utility.

00:57:05   Where can I begin with disc utility? Uh, let's, let's begin with what they did to it. They, they,

00:57:12   they did redraw the stethoscope because let's remember the disc utility icon is a metal hard

00:57:18   drive with a stethoscope attached to it. So you can listen and see if it's got, you know,

00:57:26   breathing problems, I guess, I don't know. Or if it's pulse is fine. Uh, but that's the metaphor

00:57:30   and we'll go with it. Uh, what did they do? Well, they did redraw it. So the, uh, the little tube

00:57:35   that comes out of the, uh, the stethoscope goes in a different direction, but although I will give

00:57:43   them that, um, they just slapped it on a, on a white background with a metal embossed outline.

00:57:51   It is, it just seems so, I mean, it seems a little lazy and it also seems like they bypassed an

00:57:59   opportunity to do anything to make this icon more interesting because first off when it's small,

00:58:04   it's really hard to scan. The hard drive is not something most people even see and, uh,

00:58:09   they don't put them in most of their computers now. And, uh, and in the new one, the stethoscope

00:58:15   is posed dead center or slightly off center in the, in the round rect, which makes it look more

00:58:20   like, I don't know, a stethoscope, like a, a, a, a health app. I don't know what they're doing here.

00:58:28   And if I were their teacher, I would send them back. I would, I would, I would put a,

00:58:31   see me on the paper and I'd be like, you need to do a better job. You need to do better work.

00:58:35   This isn't going to cut it. You need, I need to see a little more creativity out of you.

00:58:38   I would like to provide some real time follow up from the relay FM members discord.

00:58:43   So the background of the key chain icon is actually the texture from the padlock that appears

00:58:52   in, uh, when you, when you're entering like, you know, you see the look for passwords in macOS,

00:58:58   that's actually a textured background on like, or like the, the, the, the lock itself has that

00:59:04   kind of like orange texture. So if you zoomed in far enough on that, you would actually see

00:59:09   this exact icon. So I love it more. So the keys are really tiny compared to the

00:59:14   lock they go into. I have more questions now. That's currently the case. If you look at any

00:59:19   of the key, like, so the key chain, when you're adding something to the key chain,

00:59:22   the keys are tiny against the lock, like really minuscule keys. So, okay.

00:59:27   I just wanted to say that our, our members of the discord are also theorizing what sort of

00:59:31   medical device that, uh, disc utility round, right. Could be stop. It's D it's none of them.

00:59:36   This is not operation. It is not a tray that you put like

00:59:41   or something. It's not, it's just a bad icon. Okay. Go ahead.

00:59:45   Myke music. Boo.

00:59:49   The music icon is the new one is mind numbingly boring. It is one of the most boring app icons

00:59:59   on the Mac now completely. What did they do? They just made a red icon and put and cut a music note

01:00:04   out of the middle of it. Like the music app has a visual like gradient, the old one, the blue

01:00:13   to pink. Why didn't they at least do the blue to pink? Why is it just all pink? It's so boring.

01:00:19   It's really boring. Like I would say the worst application, the worst icons in MacOS are the

01:00:26   ones where they made them boring. I have one that I'm going to pick shortly. This is one of the

01:00:31   worst offenders. They did it to iOS. They did it to MacOS. Like Apple music is a brand of its own.

01:00:38   And for some reason they've decided our brand is pink now. Like I don't get it. Like having

01:00:43   a gradient to it was so much nicer. If you're going to have like, they've regressed it so many

01:00:48   years. It's so boring. I hate this icon. It's boring and I don't like it. You know what I like

01:00:55   when I, when I'm listening to music is I like finding the app in order to launch it and then

01:00:59   being entertained by the music instead of the icon. Boom. Okay, Steven, go ahead. I don't know

01:01:04   how that argument you just made. It's like, it's good. It's the best one. No, no, no. It's so clear

01:01:13   that it doesn't even need to be an argument. It's destroyed. Whatever your thing is about being

01:01:17   entertained by an icon. Then the entire point of this draft is in question. Like if what we're

01:01:25   doing is just... I'm not entertained by disc utility. Well then we may as well just have all

01:01:29   icons just be the name of a thing. So like, you know, like this utility icon should just say disc

01:01:35   on it. Yeah. Great. Let's do that. That's not a good icon, is it? All right. I am going for now

01:01:43   to stay in the utilities folder and I want to talk about audio MIDI setup. The old icon,

01:01:50   basically a square keyboard, a little drop shadow. The new one is perhaps the laziest redesign in the

01:01:58   entirety of Big Sur. They put a cookie cutter of the new round rect, clipped the edges of the

01:02:04   keyboard to the point where if you zoom in the white keys on the outer side, like touch the edge

01:02:09   of the round rect, what they should have done is done... they could do this but shrink all the

01:02:14   artwork down a little bit so they kept a black border around it. This is one that someone took

01:02:19   eight seconds to do and then moved on. You know what? I've zoomed in on it quite a lot. Enhance!

01:02:24   And what I think makes it worse is it does look like it has been redrawn. Like if you look at the

01:02:30   little window, like the little like readout screen on the inside, they've changed the shadow on it.

01:02:35   The sliders on the left have changed. So that kind of makes it worse that somebody did spend time on

01:02:40   this but the piano keys touch the edges of the icon. That's not good. That is worse. I didn't

01:02:47   want to zoom too closely into it because I didn't want to accidentally punch my display. Okay.

01:02:51   But it's bad. All right, for my pick, I'm going to get a little conceptual here.

01:03:00   I'm picking all of the icons that put a round peg in a square hole, specifically Siri, Safari,

01:03:08   and Time Machine as examples, where you have a concept that is round. The original concept is

01:03:14   something that is round. And then somebody in your... you're an icon designer and you're like,

01:03:19   "I got the round icons down. We're good. We got round icons." And then somebody's like,

01:03:22   "Guess what? Round rects. We're going to do that now. Now everything is a squared circle.

01:03:28   Go." And you're like, "But Time Machine is a circle that moves in a circle. But the Safari is a

01:03:35   compass. They don't make square compasses." But, you know, Siri, we have, in fact, we have the

01:03:43   little Siri circle. And in iOS 14, when you activate Siri, you just see the little circle.

01:03:49   It doesn't matter. Put it in a square. And so you've got a series of these just like really

01:03:55   bad icons that are meant to be circles, and now they're circles inside squares. And it's just

01:04:02   really sad because this is the downside of having this concept is you have things that were naturally

01:04:10   circles and all they can really do. You can see it. Look at Safari and Siri. You can see the

01:04:15   designer be like, "All right, I guess I'll just shrink it down and then put a thing behind it."

01:04:20   And then, I mean, job's done. You can knock off early and go home. They were probably already at

01:04:26   home. Anyway, I don't like it. I think it's a mistake to get the consistency part, but it just

01:04:33   makes these icons seem sad. It is weird. Again, I know Safari now looks like the iOS icon, which

01:04:40   I've said I'm happy with. I'm happy in most instances with that. But it's strange to see

01:04:45   which applications got to do something fun and which didn't. In my mind, the little Safari

01:04:51   compass should live in the bottom right-hand corner and it be in front of something else.

01:04:55   The round rack could be something that looks like a web page or something like that. It's peculiar

01:05:02   to drop some of those things in the way that they are. And then some applications like Image Capture

01:05:08   really get to break the boundaries when Safari is arguably without actually... Safari is a much more

01:05:14   important application, which people will see and click on more often. I get the consistency with

01:05:21   iOS, but I look at it and I think, "Okay, you probably don't want to make a square compass wheel,

01:05:27   right? Because it's a circular item." But you could, I mean, am I wrong in saying maybe it

01:05:33   should be a little skeuomorphic? Maybe the Safari icon, if it has to be in a round-rect, maybe the

01:05:37   idea is that the round-rect is like the thing that the compass wheel goes in and it's part of the

01:05:43   physical object. But here it's just on a white to gray gradient and it's laying there with nothing.

01:05:48   It doesn't even have a shadow or anything. It's got maybe a very light stroke around it.

01:05:54   Extremely subtle. It could have been cool to make it look like a compass, right? Like that's the

01:06:00   part you hold on to or something. Right. But they didn't do that. They punted on this one and they

01:06:07   basically said, "We'll just make it like it is an iOS." And I think if the goal here is to have these,

01:06:11   I mean, they said in their PR richer icons to take advantage of the Mac, I think they missed

01:06:15   an opportunity with a lot of these where they just took a circle and put it on a square and called it

01:06:20   good. And I think they're, I despise all of them just because I think they need to try harder.

01:06:26   System preferences. Now this is a weird one. My problem here, so this is, I actually,

01:06:34   all right, follow me here. I actually like the system preferences icon.

01:06:38   The new one?

01:06:38   The new one at large sizes. When the new system preferences icon is in your dock,

01:06:44   it's way too shadowy. It looks really not good at small sizes. It's too dark. There's like too much

01:06:53   darkness in the middle because they've put so many gears in. Like it's aggressively shadowy.

01:07:00   So at large sizes, you see the detail, but when you shrink it down, you do not see that detail

01:07:05   anymore and it gets kind of muddy. And so that's why I actually think that this icon is a worse

01:07:10   icon because they've put too much detail into it, I think.

01:07:14   Yeah, I agree with you. I like how it looks, but at small sizes, the simple one, I mean,

01:07:24   that's the fact of it is that the old icon on the Mac was designed for smaller sizes and it's very

01:07:29   clear. It's one big gear with a little, it's got a little like a little screw in the center and then

01:07:34   it's got the two gears that are kind of coming in from the side and you get the sense of what it's

01:07:38   doing and you can scan it at a glance. And then the new one, I think is a beautiful icon. Although,

01:07:45   you know, again, the teeth of that outside ring aren't attached to anything, which is kind of

01:07:49   weird. It's just these concentric circles. I'm not sure it works mechanically, but on top of that,

01:07:54   I don't think it scans as well at smaller sizes. And, you know, I don't know about you guys,

01:07:58   but I'm generally not putting the system preferences icon like out on my desktop

01:08:03   at like 256 by 256 pixels, right? It doesn't do that. That's not a thing.

01:08:09   No, I don't know about you, but I do have system preferences in my dock. And so when I've been

01:08:13   using Big Sur, I really don't like how it looks in the dark, which is a shame to me. Because when I

01:08:18   saw it for the first time, I was like, "Oh, that looks like a nice icon." But then as soon as I,

01:08:23   what, like as soon as I started putting other apps in my dock, it got progressively worse.

01:08:27   And now just looks like this tiny little gray abyss that sits in my dock, which I'm not a fan of.

01:08:32   Can I say something about system preferences on the Mac?

01:08:35   Yes. Yes, please.

01:08:37   I agree with you that the new icon isn't as good as the old one. But my big problem with system

01:08:43   preferences, and it's true in Catalina and Big Sur, is that for the software update one,

01:08:47   they use the same icon. So you go to system preferences and it itself uses its own icon

01:08:54   for software update. And the real shame of this, I'm going to put this in the Discord,

01:08:58   it'll be in the show notes too, is that Apple has a better software update icon available to it.

01:09:04   It's still in the system in core services. It's this blue little aqua globe. Apple used to use

01:09:11   this to like signify networking or the internet. And it has twisty arrows around it. And I think

01:09:16   it's a great icon. I think they can modernize it in this way and stick it in system preferences.

01:09:21   Instead, we're stuck with gears on gears on gears. Yo dog. It just, it bothers me.

01:09:28   That is weird. I've never, I don't think, I don't know why I hadn't noticed that before now.

01:09:33   That's just like on the current one, it's just the circular part without the box around it.

01:09:38   Very weird. I'm up next. And I am going to, I'm going to follow in Jason's footsteps. And I'm

01:09:44   going to say book icons are all bad. Font book, books, contacts, and dictionary. Now three of the

01:09:58   four used to use like the slightly angled rectangular books. So dictionary, contacts,

01:10:03   font book, generally looked the same with, you know, kind of their own flavor. Books was in a

01:10:09   circle, whatever. But now they've all been again, hole punched like the midi setup into these round

01:10:16   wrecks. And I don't know about you, but do you have any books? No book is shaped like this.

01:10:21   Yeah, there are no books shaped like this. And then dictionary. So there is some like

01:10:26   font book and contacts have little like tabs on the side, which is not, that's fine. I guess

01:10:33   dictionary has a tiny little bookmark, which looks really stupid. These are bad. They're all bad.

01:10:38   Books are not shaped this way, Apple. Please move on. I have a couple other notes here. One is that

01:10:45   like the dictionary you can see in the old version is actually thick. Whereas the new ones, who knows,

01:10:52   they look like little novelty gifts you'd give at Christmas where it's like, oh, it's a notepad with

01:10:57   like 10 pages in it. It's not, they have no depth. Although the dictionary does get a little bookmark,

01:11:05   which is something. I do want to observe a few things that I do think are positives about this

01:11:12   design. Cause I agree with you. I think books in general are bad. I laugh when I look at the old

01:11:17   dictionary icons. Books are great. Books are the paper. I will say books are bad. All right. Yeah,

01:11:24   the books icons in a big Sur are bad, but I did laugh. Cause if you look at that dictionary icon

01:11:29   again, sometimes you don't look at these icons and not at this level. And then you stare at them and

01:11:34   you think, well, wait a second. So I laugh at the ineptitude of the design of the old dictionary

01:11:39   book itself, because it has big text at the top that says dictionary in case you didn't know from

01:11:46   the label below it that it's the dictionary app. Don't you like it when applications tell you exactly

01:11:51   what they are. Yeah. Um, through song imagery, not through actually writing the words on there.

01:11:59   And the other thing that I will, I will applaud them for is font book. What I like about font book

01:12:04   is that it's got the little, instead of a big F with some circles around it, which is sort of like,

01:12:09   you know, it's a font building kind of Bezier kind of thing going on there. Instead the new font book

01:12:14   has like a sans serif a, and then they've got a seraph a, and I think there's a slab seraph,

01:12:20   and they've got like a little handwriting EA. And so it's four A's of different styles of font. And

01:12:25   I actually think that's a better way to convey what font book is, but it's in this little, uh,

01:12:31   little cake. Well, it's like, I like, I think, agree that like the, the, the A's of font book

01:12:38   are a better way of showing that, but it doesn't look good. Like that's my problem with it. It's

01:12:45   like whatever they've chosen or what, it just doesn't look very nice. Like the four A's stacked

01:12:51   on top of each other like that, while I do agree that it is a better way to show what it is.

01:12:56   Yeah. Oh boy. What am I going to say bad things about the tyranny of the round

01:13:00   rec isn't one that keeps getting to me, but I'm going to go, I'm going to use my time here to,

01:13:05   uh, bag on Myke's messages icon. Um, I, okay. Broadly, I think it's a mistake for Apple to

01:13:16   continue to use green as the messages icon, which I, because I message is blue, blue is good.

01:13:22   Green is bad. You don't want green bubbles. You want blue bubbles and they made green their icon.

01:13:28   So I think that's baked into it with big Sur. Apple is taking the blue messages icon that shows

01:13:34   a speech bubble and then another bubble with the ellipsis in it. Like they're typing, which is

01:13:38   a perfect encapsulation of what messages is. And they're throwing that away and replacing it with

01:13:45   this green round rec with a single speech bubble on it. And then there's the worst part for me,

01:13:52   which is there's a big drop shadow below it. It's it's super rendered, which at high, I mean,

01:13:59   I don't love it. Talk about your hidden cakes, Myke. I think that speech bubble is a cake. Okay.

01:14:04   I think it's a cake. It's so arched and like, uh, so you can see that level of detail when you

01:14:11   zoom in. But when it's living in your doc, what I find is it looks dirty. It looks muddy. The speech

01:14:17   bubble ends up being kind of like hard to pick out. The contrast isn't great. And then the green,

01:14:21   the potentially bright green rec round rec behind it. It's also now muddy because there's a shadow

01:14:27   gradient on the background plus the actual gradient of the round rec. So you get like the

01:14:32   bottom half of the rectangle is muddy and it looks just kind of like, like it's smudged and I want to

01:14:37   clean it up. You know, I do agree with that. I don't. And this is like a similar thing that

01:14:42   is in system preferences. Like the darkness, like the small sizes of these icons is a problem. And

01:14:48   that that problem does exist in messages too. I don't have, I don't disagree with the points

01:14:53   that you're making, but like the original point I was making is messages should be consistent

01:14:58   because it's important. I agree with that. Uh, but, but I think they should have changed iOS

01:15:03   to be blue rather than change Mac to be green. I never really thought about it until I stared

01:15:08   at this icon, but the Mac messages icon in Catalina, it's a good icon. I like having the two

01:15:14   bubbles and the little three dots. It's like, yeah, that's actually what happens in that app.

01:15:19   I like it. I, I, I'm very sad that they've decided to just lift the iOS icon, which is inferior

01:15:26   in concept to rather than taking the Mac icon. So, Oh, well, I wonder if, if part of this sort

01:15:33   of darkness shadow issue is that people, or even by default, the doc icons are pretty big.

01:15:39   And those of us who may use it on the side or have a lot of icons, they do get smaller and maybe

01:15:45   Apple is erring on the side of big doc icons. I have to say that one thing they could do and they

01:15:52   clearly aren't doing is you can make different icons at different sizes that are a little bit

01:15:57   different, right? They could drop some of the shadow off at small sizes to make it more readable,

01:16:01   but they don't do that. So I don't know. I don't know. Myke, it's your choice for a bad one.

01:16:07   Myke: I'm not going to cheat like my friends here and pick like seven applications at once.

01:16:13   I'm just going to continue picking one at a time. Home.

01:16:16   Yes. Yes. You want to talk about lazy also talk about cake icons. This

01:16:22   would be one of them. They took the existing home icon, which is the stacked house effect,

01:16:30   which gets lighter for every stack, which is a fine icon for home. I have no problem with that.

01:16:36   No, no, let me stop you there because I know where you're going with this. And I agree with

01:16:39   everything you're about to say, but I just want to pause for a moment and consider the home icon

01:16:42   in general because it's terrible. I think it's terrible. It is like a home with a bunch of little

01:16:48   raised kind of home-ish shapes that turns into like a home plate at the end for baseball or

01:16:52   something. And it is, it's the gradient going in. I think it's ugly. I don't like it. I think it's

01:16:58   dumb. I don't have a lot of words here other than to say, I think it's a bad ugly icon. And then

01:17:03   what they did with it is nothing. Well, they slightly, it looks like they slightly tilted

01:17:09   it away maybe. Oh, I don't know. Maybe it's just a shadow, but they just took it, shrunk it down,

01:17:14   put it in a white square, put a shadow around it and called it done. Uh, no, I'm not, I'm not up on

01:17:19   this one. Like I don't like this one. It's not good. It's super lazy. Like it might be one of

01:17:26   the laziest icons in macOS. They just shrunk it down and put it in a white round rack. And then

01:17:33   that was it. Like at least with Safari, it looks like they did some work to the compass, right?

01:17:39   Like they changed the compass a bit, you know, like they, they changed the shading and stuff

01:17:44   like that inside of the blue. Like they did some stuff there. They really just did nothing with

01:17:49   home. They're just like, there you go. Now, Myke, it's going to sound like I'm trolling you here

01:17:53   about, about the music's icon, but I'm really not. I, I I'm dead serious. It would be a better

01:17:58   home icon if it, if it had a background of some kind and then cut into it was the silhouette of

01:18:05   a house. I would agree with you in this case, because I don't think a stack of items on top

01:18:10   of a house is necessary to get across that this is the home app, right? The home silhouette does it.

01:18:17   So why don't you use the home silhouette and then maybe this, you know, one of the, one of the

01:18:22   colors from this gradient and say, that's the color of the home app and do it like that and cut that

01:18:27   either cut that out of the white background or have that be the background and have it have a

01:18:30   white cutout rather than this, uh, lazy abomination. Lost picks. I can't believe mine is still here.

01:18:39   I can't either, honestly. QuickTime Player. Now this is one where Apple wasn't playing from a

01:18:46   position of strength. The old QuickTime Player, which I think showed up in, when did they, when

01:18:50   did they go to QuickTime Player 10? Do you remember, Jason? It's a long time ago now. It's been years.

01:18:55   Yeah. And they did this like goofy black to gray gradient with the Q logo. And then there's a blue

01:19:02   gradient, which goes like the opposite direction inside of it. Very strange. And all they did,

01:19:09   this is like the home app. They stuck it in a round rack. There's a slight blue gradient to

01:19:14   the round rack. So we have three gradients. We have the background is dark blue to slightly

01:19:18   lighter blue bottom to top inside the Q it's the background gradient, but all darker going the

01:19:26   other way. And then the Q itself is still gradient. In fact, maybe even a more noticeable gradient.

01:19:32   Now it looks like you're looking texture. It looks like if you put a trashcan Mac pro down inside an

01:19:39   aquarium and look down upon it, that's kind of what it looks like. And it has the same problem.

01:19:46   The mini player has where it's too close to the edges, a little pointy bit at the end of the, the

01:19:51   little part of the queue that comes out. I'm sure that has a name. I'm sorry. It's like almost to

01:19:57   the edge. Many of my problems with these that are set into round Rex is they all need to be a little

01:20:02   bit smaller. Airport utility has the same problem. It's too close to the edges. Cooked on player is

01:20:07   bad. Too many blues pick a blue stick with it. Too many gradients makes me, makes me upset.

01:20:13   I actually have a broader point here, which is this quick time player, which the chat room

01:20:19   says was in snow leopard when they did this. Okay. Remember what they did here was they made a new

01:20:24   quick time thing that didn't use any of the quick time API APIs. And then last year they

01:20:29   deprecated the old quick time and it went away completely. So you couldn't use the old quick

01:20:34   time editor at all. You could only use this new quick time player. So they're saddled with the

01:20:38   old quick time icon, which has been around since before Steve jobs came back. Okay. It's a 90s,

01:20:43   90s. It's a 90s technology that they've deprecated now. And it's a 90s icon. So I'm going to make

01:20:48   a modest proposal maybe for next year. I think Apple needs to get rid of the quick time brand.

01:20:54   It's from the 90s. It's dead. It's gone. There's no quick time left. All it is is a media player.

01:21:00   Why don't they call it something like media player given a new boring, but informative icon and walk

01:21:06   away because as much as I loved quick time and spent lots of hours in the quick time editor and

01:21:11   the quick time player and all of that, it's over. So maybe just embrace that it's over, put it to

01:21:16   bed and you could get a better icon out of it because they are struggling with how to represent

01:21:21   this icon from the 90s in a modern way. And my only other statement here, Steven, is that on top

01:21:27   of all of that, and it does look like a Mac pro a little bit, but I prefer to think of it as a

01:21:30   cookie cutter. It looks like a cookie cutter to me, like at Christmas, you know, you get your Santa

01:21:35   and you get your reindeer and you get your quick time icon cookies and you can, you can make those.

01:21:39   So enjoy who doesn't love Q-shaped. It's the reason for the season. Quick time is, come on.

01:21:45   Oh boy. It's my turn now. Now you've taken a lot of my good ones. I'm going to go with a,

01:21:53   a little, well, they're all nitpicky, nitpicky one, which is terminal. I use terminal all the

01:22:01   time, all the time. Terminal is a great app. And this is one of those cases again, where the it's

01:22:05   the tyranny of the round rect because the old terminal icon, although small and a little bit

01:22:11   squished, it's kind of, it's a terminal prompt in a four by three ish sized window, like an iPad ish

01:22:19   sized window. And the new one it's a terminal prompt in a round rect. Terminals aren't shaped

01:22:26   that way. Like you could do it, but you would be just a bad person to do it that way. Like,

01:22:31   that's not how it works. And it really bothers me every time I launched terminal in big Sur,

01:22:36   I think, no, no, the terminal is not square. The terminal isn't shaped like that. It's got to be

01:22:42   wider. It's got to, that's how people use it. So if you're going to represent a terminal, this feels

01:22:47   like a bad idea. Also, this would be a great opportunity to do something a little more fun

01:22:51   and skeuomorphic where it's a, a more old style compute terminal inside a shape. Like it's a,

01:22:59   almost like it's a, a CRT maybe or something like that where it feels old. I think they've also

01:23:04   missed the opportunity to add some color to this. All my terminals are a bright green on black

01:23:09   background. It's fun. It feels very old and they've lost that here or that they missed the opportunity

01:23:15   for that. And I know that this is a minor thing, but like the bottom line is not everything is a

01:23:21   round rect and by putting it in a round rect, they've, they've disappointed me. That's what

01:23:26   I'm saying. Console I think has the same problem, right? Like the same thing happened. The text is

01:23:33   now a little bit smaller. I will say though, I think this treatment works for activity monitor.

01:23:38   I kind of like activity monitor look going from looking like an iPad to an Apple watch,

01:23:42   like those shapes, but yeah, console and terminal feel like siblings that got the same punishment.

01:23:48   Also in my head Canon for Apple icons, the activity monitor is the readout of what you're

01:23:53   hearing through the stethoscope in disc utility. If your hard drive sounds like a heartbeat,

01:24:00   you've lost all your data. Also, we haven't mentioned it yet, but I'm just as an aside,

01:24:04   since we're talking about medical things, I can't look at digital color meter without thinking that

01:24:09   some kind of CSI and it's a thing full of blood. That's okay. It's blood. There's blood in there

01:24:14   people. That's not a digital color meter. If it is, they're measuring the color of the blood they

01:24:18   found at the crime scene. The gradient on digital color meter is better than the gradient on music.

01:24:23   I agree. Just saying. It's just been mentioned, but my final pick is console for similar reasons

01:24:30   to JSON. So it's basically just, they took the old one and they put it in a round break and

01:24:35   put a silver border around the outside. And it's not as good, right? But the main issue I have is

01:24:40   just like, I don't like that console icon at all. So it says, "Warning" with no G and then A, 736.

01:24:50   That's not nice. Like, I don't want to see an icon that says "Warning" on it. Well,

01:24:56   that's why console's there. It's to read the warnings. But I can't read the warning. It's

01:25:00   cut off. No, it's cut off. Yeah. I don't like this icon. I really don't like it.

01:25:06   It's the icon that says, "This is literally an app where there's a bunch of text in it."

01:25:10   And so we're just going to put a bunch of text in it. Yay. Don't open this. It's full of warnings.

01:25:14   I don't want it. If you keep it closed, the warnings go away and you never have to deal

01:25:19   with it. That's not super true. A, 736. A, 736. A, A. Can we talk about Finder? I know it's not

01:25:28   in these. It's in the migration assistant. I find Finder clipped into a round-frect. A,

01:25:34   sort of upsetting. Like, what do they do to that poor Finder face? I love it.

01:25:37   Do you? What do you think, Jason? It makes me uncomfortable because now the Finder is a cake,

01:25:45   too. It's all cakes. What I like about round-wrecking the Finder is it makes it more

01:25:50   human. Like, people don't have corners. Because humans have rounded rectangles.

01:25:54   Well, people are more round than they are sharp-cornered. It's nice, though. It feels

01:25:59   better to me. It's just like a little friend. It fits. I don't hate it. It's just, it's so,

01:26:05   so this icon, I mean, QuickTime is probably older or I don't know, it's close. This icon

01:26:11   is from the 90s, too. And they've redrawn it. But, like, this has been, the Finder is the old

01:26:16   Mac OS icon going way back. So it's a classic. I'm glad it's still with us. It's actually one of

01:26:24   those ones that I'm surprised Apple hasn't done something terrible to it. And if getting it to

01:26:30   fit by making it a round-rect is what they need to do, I'm okay with it. I don't, I mean, they

01:26:35   didn't put it in with a white background. They didn't put a, like, a silver border around it.

01:26:40   They didn't add a stethoscope. They didn't do any of that. So that's good. While we're here,

01:26:44   the App Store icon's terrible. I had that on my list. That was gonna be, I mean, when you're here,

01:26:49   you're family. Enjoy your unlimited breadsticks because it's the beveled, I mean, I don't like the

01:26:55   App Store icon anyway, 'cause it's the letter A spelled out with what was originally, like,

01:27:00   a pen and stuff because it's for, you know, it's like productivity for applications. And at this

01:27:05   point- Please do not send us the pictures of the three app icons, like, stacked. Like, I get it,

01:27:12   right? Like, it's three app icons on a side, but they'll cut weirdly, which doesn't make any sense.

01:27:18   They wouldn't do that. Like, and it's got too much shadow and it just looks like hot dogs more than

01:27:24   ever. It's not- White hot dogs. White chocolate-covered hot dogs. That's what it is.

01:27:29   Think of it this way. Those are breadsticks that are gonna go into the oven. You've got a little

01:27:33   blue tray and you're gonna pop that into your toaster oven and then, again, when you're here,

01:27:38   you're family. I thought there were no trays. I wouldn't get there from Disk Utility that there's

01:27:43   no trays in any of these. No trays. They left no trays. I think Apple missed an opportunity with

01:27:49   system information. It's the calipers picking up what is a very old-school style chip. Like,

01:27:56   chips don't look like that anymore. I think they could have really redone that and put an Apple

01:28:01   silicon chip in there, but they didn't. And by the way, talk about your lazy icon. That feels

01:28:06   like they didn't even reposition it. They literally just put a round-wreck behind it

01:28:11   with the calipers. But the doctor, fortunately, that is a tool that is in the doctor's- So,

01:28:16   I'm building up the story here, right? So, the doctor comes, he's got a black bag, his stethoscope

01:28:20   is in it. He listens to the hard drive. He gets the activity monitor information out of there,

01:28:24   and then he needs to measure something. So, out of his little leather bag, he pulls the calipers,

01:28:28   his old-timey calipers, to measure, I don't know, how big the hard drive is or something like that.

01:28:33   The story continues, the adventures of Dr. Icon. Oh, and there's blood on the floor,

01:28:37   and he needs to measure the blood with a digital color meter. Wow.

01:28:39   I think that the automator could be the doctor. Because he's a little robot computer doctor.

01:28:46   All the things are in that tube. That tube isn't a metal bar. It's a tube

01:28:49   containing all his medical items. Yeah, Dr. Otto.

01:28:51   And then he has to consult a book, and he takes out a little round-wreck book that is

01:28:55   shaped like no book in history. But that's how robot books are.

01:28:58   That is. Like Kindles.

01:28:59   Story solved. Steven Hackett, thank you so much for joining us. Where can people hear

01:29:05   your fine work, which is sometimes like this and sometimes not?

01:29:09   If you want more wild stuff, you can find me on Connected with Myke and Federico on Wednesdays.

01:29:15   And then every Sunday, I am on Mac Power Users with David Sparks, and every other Tuesday with

01:29:21   Jason on Liftoff. Yeah. And this just in, Dr. Otto is the one who pronounced Lou dead. So,

01:29:27   adding to the legend. We'll miss you, Lou. Thank you, Steven. Thanks, guys.

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01:30:52   and Relay FM. It is time for some #AskUpgrade questions. Back to lasers from our icon sounds.

01:31:01   I've got an icon on the brain now. Too many icons from our Big Sur sounds last week. We have a

01:31:08   question from Jason, which is not you, but Jason, you have the answer. Jason asks, "I'm a cord cutter

01:31:13   and I love MLB TV, but it's completely undercut by local blackouts. What will it take for them to get

01:31:19   rid of the archaic local blackout restrictions?" All right, so let me explain what's happening with

01:31:24   Major League Baseball's streaming service. The idea here is if you're in a local market, you can't see

01:31:30   the games from your team in your local market. And the whole product exists and was built on the idea

01:31:37   that it's letting you see baseball games from other parts of the country, but not your local market.

01:31:42   Why is that? The answer is that Major League Baseball sells the rights to your local team,

01:31:50   or the local team sell those rights, to essentially a channel in your local market that's making a lot

01:31:57   of money by being on a cable or satellite system. And there's a huge amount of money to be made

01:32:01   there. Plus, those contracts have become enormous. Like the one in LA, it's tens of billions of

01:32:07   dollars because the cable companies know that one of the ways to stop people from cutting the cord

01:32:15   is to put live sports on their channels, and then you're kind of stuck. That's why they make the

01:32:22   money they do. And as a result, a lot of people will say, "Well, why can't I just spend $100 or

01:32:26   whatever for MLB TV and skip my local games?" And the fact is, because somebody else paid way more

01:32:32   than that, and you would need to pay way more than that to get your local games. Now, the good news

01:32:37   is if you're a cord cutter, you can get those local games, but you have to use an over-the-top

01:32:41   service. You have to use YouTube TV or Hulu Plus or one of those things. You've got to use a live

01:32:46   TV service, at which point you're paying like $60 a month, which is a lot, even if it's for four,

01:32:52   six months of a normal baseball season. So it stinks, but a lot of people think, "Well,

01:32:59   why can't I just spend $100 and get my local team?" And the answer is because they want you

01:33:03   to spend way more money than that. And the people who sold the rights sold it to somebody who wants

01:33:08   you to spend that money and knows you'll spend that money. So eventually, right now you can do

01:33:14   it, but you have to buy an over-the-top service. Eventually, they might offer it direct, but it's

01:33:18   not going to be part of the main package. It's going to be a very expensive add-on when it

01:33:23   happens. So that's part of it. I think Jason's question is a little more broad because one of

01:33:28   the challenges about these blackouts is that what they define as a local market is bogus and

01:33:34   includes lots of markets that can't actually see the games on traditional TV. There's an area in

01:33:40   Iowa that's got like eight teams that claim it's their local market. When I go to Hawaii,

01:33:46   all the California teams, I think, are the local market in Hawaii, but you can't actually watch

01:33:51   the games in Hawaii. They aren't on in Hawaii, and you can't stream them. So Jason's question is,

01:34:00   "What will it take?" I don't know. I don't know why they haven't changed it already. It would

01:34:03   actually open up a lot of opportunity for Major League Baseball to serve those fans, and I don't

01:34:08   believe it's realistic that the teams are saying, "Well, yeah, but the cable company in Iowa could

01:34:14   put our games on TV." They just don't. It's a little bit silly. I mean, and it's not reasonable

01:34:20   for them to do that. So there needs to be reform for the territories because that will allow fans

01:34:27   who can't see the games any other way to find a way to pay to see them. But the larger issue,

01:34:32   which is, "Why can't I just, as a person who wants to follow my local baseball team, pay $100 a year

01:34:39   or $120 a year to see them?" The answer is, because somebody else paid a lot of money to get you to

01:34:46   buy cable or an over-the-top service. And that's just, it's the money. The money is the answer.

01:34:51   It's not, the MLB TV exists, it was created as a way to get everything else, but not steal the

01:34:59   money from your local team that gets a huge amount of money from the cable company, essentially,

01:35:04   to put their games on cable. So that's where we are. It's a little upstream-esque upgrade.

01:35:09   I don't really know anything about this, but I understand the thinking of, like,

01:35:15   if you're in a local area, you want to watch your team, right? And if there should be a way...

01:35:21   Right, yeah. And wanting to watch your local team, though, has a value that is way beyond

01:35:25   the value of a service that's for superfans like me, who wants to see any other game they want.

01:35:32   Like, the local team has a much greater value. And that's the trick, is people see the,

01:35:38   people see this package for $120 and think, "Oh, that includes my local team," and then they get

01:35:44   disappointed when it doesn't. But I assure you, if it included your local team, it wouldn't be

01:35:50   $120 for six months. It would be $360 or $300, or it would be a lot more. And you know what?

01:35:59   That would be nice if they would offer it, but the fact is, what you do if you are a cord cutter

01:36:05   and you really want your local team is, for the months that your team is in season, get YouTube

01:36:10   TV or Hulu Plus with live TV or one of the other, or Sling, right? You get one of the over-the-top

01:36:16   providers that has your local cable channel that shows those games and then cancel when the season

01:36:21   is over. And I know that that's going to be $50 or $60 a month, and that stinks, but, like,

01:36:25   that's basically the price you would pay anyway if they offered it inside of Major League Baseball's

01:36:30   app. Nepali asks, "With our Macs running iOS apps in the future, do you think that a potential

01:36:37   convertible Mac could show the iOS-only apps within almost springboard-like UI in tablet mode?"

01:36:44   So there's a lot here, right? We spoke in the past about the potential for a convertible Mac,

01:36:52   so the idea of being able to flip a screen around to the back. And if you did that,

01:36:57   can you imagine a world in which macOS kind of only, like, changes to only offer you

01:37:03   the iOS-based applications because you're, you know, not using the keyboard or the mouse

01:37:11   anymore because it's now effectively like a tablet? Depends on how Apple implemented this,

01:37:16   right? I think my gut feeling is you would just tap on that beautiful set of colored squares on

01:37:25   a white background that is the launchpad icon. Exactly. Imagine, right? And then swipe through

01:37:31   those because that essentially is the springboard interface on the Mac. Would they—I think it's an

01:37:37   interesting question of, like, would Apple make some affordances for a touch-only interface if a

01:37:42   Mac that has touch and is convertible, if you fold the keyboard around the back, is it smart enough

01:37:48   to say, "Oh, you know, you don't have another keyboard or mouse attached, and so I'm going to

01:37:53   go into a more touch-friendly mode"? I don't know. It feels like that's not Apple's style, but maybe.

01:37:59   Again, I think it's more likely that Apple would, you know, have some sort of affordance like

01:38:05   launchpad, which does that, and then would it auto-launch launchpad? Probably not,

01:38:10   but you can put it in your dock and tap on it, and then you've got an app launcher that you can use

01:38:14   that you aren't dealing with a finder. I do wonder about, like, multi-touch gestures in a scenario

01:38:19   like that. Would they let me, like, do expose with finger gestures or go to the desktop or

01:38:25   something like that? I don't know. It gets real weird real fast, which is why I think if you bet

01:38:31   on a convertible laptop at all, I think it would take a lot of steps to get something that rich,

01:38:36   and that they would probably start with something much simpler that's basically—it's a Mac,

01:38:40   and you just have to deal with your trying to emulate Mac input as much as possible

01:38:46   using your fingers. Yeah, I think if we do—and I do believe we will get touchscreen Macs at

01:38:51   some point—but if we do, I don't think convertible is the first form factor. I think there's a lot of

01:38:56   steps between now and convertible Mac when it comes to how macOS works and operates that would

01:39:02   need to be considered. You know, like, would you put a software keyboard on the Mac? Right?

01:39:09   Like, don't know. You could. You could. You could. But would you? Yeah. And I think that's—and that

01:39:15   is where we start to get into the stuff that Microsoft has grappled with, right? And I'm not

01:39:19   sure if Apple wants to go there or not, but they could. It could. Like, if I'm in a tablet mode and

01:39:26   I'm running an iOS app, would you not want to slide up a software keyboard at that point?

01:39:30   And Marlies asks, "What upcoming or rumored new technology are you most excited about right now?"

01:39:40   So I'll say for me, Jason, while you get your brain working on some future tech over there,

01:39:46   uh, this isn't necessarily future tech for the phone industry at large, but for an iPhone use

01:39:53   case or for an iPhone user, I'm looking forward to high refresh rate displays. ProMotion display

01:39:58   on my iPhone, I feel like it's got to be this year and I'm very much excited about that. And as you

01:40:04   would expect, I am still quite bullish, as Tim would say, on foldable display technology. I think

01:40:10   we're still at the very beginning of that. I still think that there's interesting things that could

01:40:13   happen. Like, I'm really intrigued to see, like, tablets as an idea. Like, what would you do if you

01:40:20   looked at a tablet being foldable? Yeah, I think there's still some stuff there that I want to see,

01:40:24   and I'm excited for what the future of foldables could look like.

01:40:28   Uh, for me, it's Face ID on Macs and desktop Macs in particular. Like, the more I use, um,

01:40:35   Touch ID on a laptop, the more sad I am that I have to enter my password an awful lot

01:40:41   on, uh, on the Mac because I have an iMac. So I think that Face ID tech, which would also come

01:40:48   with an upgraded webcam, I would love to see that. That's, that's a big one for me.

01:40:52   All right, that is it for this episode of Upgrade. If you would like to send in a question for a

01:40:58   future episode, you can send out a tweet with the hashtag #AskUpgrade or use the question mark

01:41:03   #AskUpgrade command in the Relay FM members Discord. Don't forget, you can go to getupgradeplus.com

01:41:09   to become an Upgrade Plus member and you'll get access to that Discord. If you want to find Jason

01:41:14   online, you can go to sixcolors.com and he is @jsnell, J S N E double L. Uh, Jason, are you

01:41:20   going to be doing any coverage of the earnings report? Oh, you know it charts, charts, charts,

01:41:25   whoo! I love them charts over at sixcolors.com and you'll be tweeting, will you be doing live tweets?

01:41:30   Uh, probably somebody will. Yeah, if you do, or if somebody does, that'll be from the,

01:41:37   is that uh Six Colors Live? Is that the Twitter account? Uh, Six Colors Event. Six Colors Event.

01:41:42   I'll put that in the show notes for people if they want to follow that account. It's a good account to

01:41:47   get all of the great tidbits. I like it for that. I save so many tweets from that account to my notes

01:41:54   application to talk about on the show because you get all the good tidbits from there. Um, if you

01:41:59   want to find me online, I'm @imike, I am Y K E. Thank you so much to Fully and PDFPEM from Smile

01:42:06   for their support of the show and uh we'll be back. Oh, and thanks to Stephen Hackett for

01:42:11   joining us as well. Yeah, that wild segment. I hope that you enjoyed it. Uh, still a summer

01:42:15   of fun around here. We'll be back next time. Until then, say goodbye to Jason Snow. Goodbye Myke Hurley.

01:42:22   [Music]