298: Copy Copy Copy, Paste Paste Paste Paste

0:00:00[Music]

0:00:08From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 298. Today's show is brought to you by Pingdom, Linode and ExpressVPN.

0:00:17My name is Myke Hurley and I am joined by Jason Snell. Hello, Jason Snell.

0:00:21Hello, Myke Hurley. How are you?

0:00:22Fine and dandy, my friend. Fine and dandy. I have a #SnellTalk question for you.

0:00:26It comes from Stuart. Stuart would like to know, "Jason,

0:00:29do you like it when people point out typos in your articles or your posts?

0:00:34Some like it so they can correct them, but others seem to not enjoy that feedback.

0:00:39Where do you fall on this?"

0:00:40Hmm. Well, I hate making mistakes, but it's inevitable,

0:00:45especially when you're working more or less alone.

0:00:49And generally, that's my workflow is I just write the story and post it.

0:00:53And for Macworld, I write the story and then my editor at Macworld looks it over and posts it.

0:00:59And so I hate it when mistakes get through, but they do.

0:01:03It never fails. Sometimes I will send a story, a big story I'm working on to like five or six

0:01:09people in advance. And then the moment it posts, people will say, "Oh, this is a typo." And I'll

0:01:13be like, "I showed it to five people and nobody mentioned the typo." It can be very frustrating.

0:01:18But I like corrections. I like them in the right context. I want them to be fixed. I want mistakes

0:01:23to be fixed. That said, it is emotionally difficult when you work very hard on something.

0:01:30And among the first pieces of feedback you get on it is not about the substance of the material,

0:01:35but that you made a mistake, a minor mistake. Somewhere like a word was misspelled or was...

0:01:41These days, it's the wrong word. It's not that a word was misspelled because I do actually run

0:01:46a spell check. I'm a good speller, but spell checks can find mistyped words, but they don't find

0:01:51words that were either mistyped as another word or corrected to another word. In the early days

0:01:56of me writing on the iPad, there was a lot of autocorrect happening. It was really bad. That

0:02:02was actually an impediment to me trusting the iPad as a writing tool for a while. And these days,

0:02:07I have all of those things turned off on the hardware keyboard. Once I separated the hardware

0:02:11keyboard setting from the regular keyboard setting, and I could go into hardware keyboard

0:02:14and turn off all the autocorrection, I felt much better about writing on the iPad because

0:02:19you'd have a word turned into a different word that was the wrong word after you had typed it,

0:02:25and it wouldn't show up in a spell check because it was a word. It was just not the right word.

0:02:31So I guess sometimes a spelling error is better than an autocorrection, right?

0:02:37Absolutely. I mean, for now, I have that turned off, and that's why. It's because if I just

0:02:43mistyped it, I want to see that I misspelled it. I don't want it turned into some best-guessed word

0:02:48that is probably the wrong word, or at least there's a chance it's the wrong word. So anyway,

0:02:52it is emotionally difficult. You put a lot of effort into writing something, and you want people

0:02:57to read it and appreciate what it's about. And it's not just like, "Please give me praise." It's

0:03:02also, "Please read the thing that I worked on." And when somebody says, "Oh, it's this word and

0:03:08not this word," which is frustrating because, of course, I know it's that word and not that word.

0:03:12Every now and then, I'll make a big mistake that's like, "Whoa, what was I thinking there,

0:03:16and I have to fix it?" But mostly, it's just that word got mistyped as a different word,

0:03:22and it went through. And it's just sad when it's like, "Oh, I worked so hard. This is the response

0:03:27I get." It's just like, "You misspelled the word. Ha-ha." Also, sometimes I do get corrections from

0:03:32people that include lots of opinions. Those mostly come via email. There's a lot of, "Well, I would

0:03:38have phrased it this way." And that's a lot less helpful because I do want to fix mistakes, but I'm

0:03:41not particularly interested in arguing over my choices that I make as a writer. Those I'm a lot

0:03:47less interested in. So I kind of tune the people out who decide that what they really want to do

0:03:52is debate my choices with me. - Right. You want to know if something's wrong,

0:03:57not if somebody would have done it differently. - Yeah, exactly. I mean, I, believe it or not,

0:04:03the things that we write in public are not accidents. Like, I make lots of conscious choices.

0:04:10And so if somebody wants to debate with me, well, what... A lot of times with tech stuff, it's excess

0:04:15specificity. Gruber and I talked about this the last time I was on the talk show. A lot of times,

0:04:20it's somebody who has a very technical knowledge of something. And I will simplify something

0:04:25because it's not worth getting into. And somebody will go, "Well, actually, it's technically this."

0:04:32And my response, which I don't usually actually send back to them is, "Yes, I'm aware that that's

0:04:37technically what it is, but it's beside the point of the article. And this is vague on purpose

0:04:44because I don't want to get into it." But you get a lot of those too. And I just, it's fine. I just

0:04:49kind of tune that out. What I always plugged when I was at IDG and we never, it never got prioritized,

0:04:54it never got implemented was a report, a typo, basically, report an error in this story link

0:05:04because we had comments on stories at IDG. And so people would put typo corrections at the bottom of

0:05:10the story in a comment thread. And I hated that. And what I really wanted was a link to basically

0:05:17a collection box. And then somebody would get those flags and fix the mistakes. Somebody on

0:05:24staff, whoever it was, whether it was the writer or the editor or a copy editor or whatever,

0:05:28almost like a bug tracker for errors. And I'm not sure that makes sense for Six Colors because it

0:05:32really is just me and Dan and people can contact us on Twitter and email and whatever to get that

0:05:38across to us. And we don't have comments, so it's not quite the same, although it still

0:05:43shows up in my Twitter mentions. And then somebody mentioned Six Colors and I have a search for

0:05:48@BleedSixColors. And then for the next week, when I look at that saved search, there's a typo

0:05:54correction on that page. And it's so frustrating because I already fixed it, but it stays there and

0:05:59I have to see it every time. It's very frustrating. So I thought about that because it would be really

0:06:07nice. It would be really nice if somebody could even select text and then choose a thing that was

0:06:12like, "Report this as a mistake." But I don't know what that would be. I don't know how I would

0:06:17implement that. I thought about even just having a form on a page that's like, "Report an error

0:06:22here." But I don't actually think it would drive that much traffic. I think people are just pretty

0:06:27comfortable in whatever place they can find you of just shooting you a note saying that this word

0:06:33is wrong. And this is a good question. I mean, nobody wants to make mistakes and it never fails

0:06:40that as many times as you read over a story before you push it live, the moment that you push it live,

0:06:44you personally will see mistakes in it. Six Colors posts are frequently edited like eight times in

0:06:53the first two minutes that they're live because I will suddenly see all these things I didn't see

0:06:58before. And that's just an effect of writing on the internet that as soon as it's live,

0:07:01you see. And I have the preview template and all that, doesn't matter. As soon as you see it live,

0:07:06it changes the way you view it. But then there's always gonna be something. That's just the nature

0:07:13of it. And I used to work in a system where I had multiple copy edit reads of everything that I

0:07:19wrote. And that was great because the typos didn't get through. And we don't really live in that

0:07:25world anymore. I spot typos in the New York Times now. Like, yeah, we just don't live in that world

0:07:32anymore. Alas. So I have actually considered hiring somebody I used to work with as a kind

0:07:39of on-call copy editor to send the more important stuff that I am writing about to give it a pass

0:07:46before I post it. And maybe that will happen at some point. But errors are still gonna get

0:07:50through. And I appreciate people pointing them out, even though sometimes it's really annoying too.

0:07:55(laughs)

0:07:57It's more like annoying to yourself. You just annoyed at yourself that you did it.

0:08:01But I have that if I ever have errors in shows. I'm annoyed that I didn't catch it.

0:08:07That's always very frustrating to me. Luckily, oh gosh, why am I saying this? I haven't had an

0:08:15error in a show for a long time. Well, we do say things here that people will correct us on.

0:08:23And sometimes we're wrong. And edit errors is what I'm talking about.

0:08:26Oh yeah. But sometimes we'll be wrong. Oh, I'm wrong all the time.

0:08:31A lot of times we're not wrong. Not that it doesn't bother me, but I don't lose sleep over

0:08:36that one. What really I hate is editing errors. And I'm pretty good at those now.

0:08:43I know what you mean. I had one of those a few months ago where somebody's file,

0:08:49it was literally like the last thing I did before I exported. I misclicked on something and slid it.

0:08:53And so somebody's file was completely off for half the podcast. And I was like,

0:08:58oh no, I hate those. That's like the worst.

0:09:00And you can't rescind a podcast. You're dealing with those errors for a long time because

0:09:05everybody's podcast player grabs it immediately and sits there. And then a week later they play

0:09:09it and go, oh, did you know that this is wrong? It's like, yes, I fixed it in the first 10 minutes,

0:09:13just deleted, downloaded again. It's fine. But you can't, like for their perspective,

0:09:18they're reporting a mistake. Cause I can't tell Overcast, download this file again. I wish I could,

0:09:26but I can't do that. So yeah. Yeah. Nobody likes making mistakes and you want to be right.

0:09:34And one of the things I've learned as a writer is doing a podcast is just a different thing because

0:09:43speaking extemporaneously on technical subjects is hard. And we will often, the ones that get us

0:09:54where people write in are always a tangent that we take. That we haven't prepared for. And so

0:10:01we're searching our own fallible memories for what we think it was. And it'll always be like,

0:10:06when, when was that product released? 2012? And somebody would be like, well, actually it was 2011.

0:10:13And we'd be like, okay, we didn't even look it up. We just were trying to guess it from memory,

0:10:18but that happens. And that's the different standard that a podcast has, I think, than

0:10:22something written where you can, you know, you can look it up before you press the post button.

0:10:28Thank you so much to Stuart for that wonderful Snell Talk question. If you would like to submit

0:10:32a question for the show, just send out a tweet with the hashtag Snell Talk, and it may be included

0:10:36for a future episode. Jason, I have a couple of items of follow-up that I would like to bring to

0:10:41the table today. The first is I want to just talk about the Relay FM members Discord again. This is

0:10:46something we spoke about last week. This is a new perk for Relay FM members. We have a closed and

0:10:53private to Relay FM members only Discord server now. It's rocking and rolling over there. It's

0:10:58been a wonderful week and a bit getting this all set up and we're doing more and more to it. And

0:11:03the reason we're talking about it again is we have two interesting pieces of functionality added to

0:11:09the Discord server. One is you can now listen to live stream shows and chat with the show bot

0:11:17all within Discord. So we're actually, as me and Jason are speaking right now, we're doing our

0:11:23first live streamed episode. So currently, you can listen in the Relay FM app, you can listen

0:11:28on the website and you can talk in IRC. That's been around forever. It's still sticking around.

0:11:32But we now also have the live stream of all shows that are live streamed pumped into the Discord. So

0:11:39the audio is there and we have a live chat going on there all at the same time. It's amazing. This

0:11:45means that you can easily listen in the Discord app on basically any platform. It's been possible

0:11:52to listen on the web, but it's not as easy. This is way easier on iOS. It's way easier on Android,

0:11:56for example, without needing a bunch of applications. So if you're a Relay FM member

0:12:01and you listen to live shows, in my opinion, this is now the best way to do that. If you do enjoy

0:12:06listening to live shows, this is a great reason to become a Relay FM member. If you do want to be

0:12:11a Relay FM member and support upgrade, then you can just tap on the first link in your show notes

0:12:16and it will go straight to the page to give us some money and you get a ton of wonderful benefits

0:12:21one of them now being the Relay FM members Discord, which also has a really, I'm really

0:12:28pleased that we were able to get this hyper running with our mods. They were a great team

0:12:31of people building these bots for us. We do ask upgrade at the end of every show, right? And we've

0:12:36always collected these questions over Twitter with the hashtag #askupgrade. Now also, if any message

0:12:44in any channel in the Relay FM members Discord, if you add question mark ask upgrade, it will be

0:12:50added to the same sheet as the Twitter questions. So now we will be pulling questions from Twitter

0:12:56and the Relay FM members Discord. So you use the question mark ask upgrade and you can ask us a

0:13:01question, which is wonderful. That means that if you don't want to be on Twitter or you quit

0:13:05Twitter or something and you do want to ask us a question and been frustrated that you're not able

0:13:09to do that, you can now, if you're a Relay FM member, you can just do it in Discord and we'll

0:13:14get it that way. There's a couple other things. Questions can be longer and something that I

0:13:19thought was fun. It's like if there's a conversation happening and they're like,

0:13:22"I don't know about this." Well, you can just ask the question again, put question mark ask upgrade,

0:13:26and then we might answer it on the show. So I think it's super cool. Next week, we're doing

0:13:31a mic at the movies. We got some great feedback about the Star Trek Whale movie because it was a

0:13:38fun and weird movie to do. So we're going to talk about a movie that we've both seen. Although I've

0:13:45actually, funnily enough, seen this movie more than Jason. And we picked this movie because it is,

0:13:51in my opinion, the lowest stakes movie I've ever seen in all of the best ways. It's Ferris Bueller's

0:13:58Day Off from 1986. It's available, I think it's on Netflix. I know at least it is in the UK. So

0:14:06I will be watching it on Netflix over the next couple of days. But yeah, on the next episode,

0:14:12we're going to be doing a mic at the movies, and I guess Jason at the movies as well,

0:14:15about Ferris Bueller's Day Off, which is just like the best movie.

0:14:19Yeah, it is on Netflix in the US as well.

0:14:22Wonderful.

0:14:23Netflix subscribers, go watch Ferris Bueller, 1986. Get a nice shot of happy silliness from the '80s.

0:14:30And we'll talk about it next week. I've seen it one time.

0:14:34Oh, I love this movie. So spoilers, I love this movie.

0:14:37I've seen it one time. That time was within the last five years. So I never saw it in the '80s.

0:14:42Or the '90s. Or the 2000s. But it's good. So we'll talk about it.

0:14:46Apple has acquired the VR company NextVR. So we spoke about this when it was rumored.

0:14:51But now it is official. Apple have confirmed it.

0:14:54NextVR buys other companies from time to time, as they always say. Yep.

0:14:59Yeah, it's like, "Oh, we do it all the time." It's like, "Okay, sure you do." But you don't

0:15:03always tell us though, do you? NextVR, with a company that broadcasts sport and live events

0:15:08in virtual reality, NextVR has now shut down. I was thinking, I wonder if, like, I mean,

0:15:16this is obviously the best time for them to be bought because there's nothing for them to

0:15:20broadcast right now, which I thought was interesting. Like, I believe that this deal

0:15:26was occurring for a while. And like, for them, this is like perfect time. Because I can't imagine

0:15:33how they, I mean, I don't know what their business is like. But I cannot imagine how they would have

0:15:37gotten through the next 18 months unless they had very favorable contracts, right? Because there are

0:15:45no sporting events for them to shoot. But anyway, that may have changed. I don't, we don't know.

0:15:50I can't predict the future. But anyway, the company has now shut down. They, I looked into

0:15:56this, they hold a ton of patents. Like this was something that we were talking about before. Like,

0:16:00oh, maybe Apple also wants their intellectual property as well as their technology. And I just

0:16:07did some cursory googling. And Jason, they have so many patents about VR. Like, it's wild how many

0:16:12they have. So I believe at this point that this was a, like a one, two punch type deal. Like, they

0:16:19have, they now own a bunch of patents for VR, which I'm sure could be extended to AR and anything

0:16:24you wear on your face to project images. And now they also have a team of people that know how to

0:16:29build software that ties into hardware. Because NextVR didn't have their own hardware of any kind.

0:16:34They would tie into Oculus, HTC, Vive, that kind of stuff. So this is obviously an area of interest

0:16:41for Apple, either AR or VR, right? Because I think there's a lot of crossover in the technologies

0:16:47here. And it's just depending on what element you're working on. I don't think that this means

0:16:54that Apple necessarily wants to broadcast VR live events. This could be something for TV Plus, but

0:17:01for me personally, that feels like the least likely outcome of why they did this, right? Which was to

0:17:06to buy the company that does this thing because they want to do this thing. I think they wanted

0:17:10to buy this company because they were doing interesting things. Could be wrong, but that

0:17:15it doesn't really, I just don't believe that Apple was looking to broadcast NBA and WWE in VR.

0:17:22I don't think that's the reason to motivate this, right? It's like, aha, we finally got this final

0:17:25piece of the puzzle. But if, as we've discussed on Upstream before, that Apple is doing, at least

0:17:34considering live sports, that's a possibility. And we know that Amazon is also experimenting with

0:17:42this. Netflix doesn't seem interested in live events and that's fine. It's not really part of

0:17:46their brand, but Apple is. And Apple's working on this AR/VR thing. Having this tech so that, one,

0:17:55they could potentially use it if they do live sports in the future. And two, don't forget that

0:18:01they also have their Apple TV channels and the Apple TV as a concept itself. And so if they're

0:18:07hedging against AR and VR video viewing being a thing in the future, having the ability to do a

0:18:15good job with sports so that they can have a traditional feed that's just on your TV,

0:18:20but they can also have an AR feed or a VR feed, that's bonus. But yeah, I think it's not probably

0:18:26the primary use. I wanted to mention, and I mentioned this on Twitter the other day too,

0:18:30it's funny where my two worlds intersect. A writer named Sarah Pinsker wrote a novel that was

0:18:35nominated for the Nebula Award this year for best science fiction and fantasy novel called A Song

0:18:40for a New Day. And it is a little, it's a good book, but it's a little too real because it's

0:18:46about the after effects of a global pandemic, changing how people work in public spaces. Yeah,

0:18:52bad timing for Sarah Pinsker to have this book come out right before this. But one of the main

0:18:58characters in it is a musician and another main character works for this company that's kind of

0:19:03like a giant live performance VR company. And basically they find musicians and they all

0:19:11perform in VR because there aren't live performances in the real world anymore because there are no

0:19:16crowds because of the pandemic. And the novel is sort of arguing about the greatness of live music

0:19:24and why you, you know, people will go back to live music because it's such a great experience

0:19:29and it can't be replicated. And there was a post about that from, I think Dave Grohl from

0:19:35Foo Fighters last week posted about that. So the big company in there, which is called like

0:19:42Stage Hollow Live or something like that. When this acquisition happened, I was talking to Dan

0:19:47Morin about this and we're both like, "It's Stage Hollow Live, isn't it?" I mean, it's funny to see

0:19:53all of these things happening in the real world kind of echoed in some recent sci-fi that we read.

0:19:59- Last night, we were going through Disney movies right now because Disney+ is amazing.

0:20:04And we're like, "Oh, I want to watch Tangled," which is one of my favorite Disney animation

0:20:10movies. It's hilarious. But like you didn't realize, "Oh, it's about being locked away,

0:20:15can't leave." I was like, "Oh man, I wasn't expecting this. Tangled."

0:20:18- It's a quarantine movie.

0:20:19- Yep. So it comes from everywhere. Logic Pro, is it X or X?

0:20:25- X.

0:20:25- X. Logic Pro X gets a significant update. You may remember, we spoke about this a few weeks ago,

0:20:31that there was imagery on an Apple education page of what looked like live loops in Logic,

0:20:37live loops from GarageBand and iOS. That got added. It's one of the big features that got

0:20:43added to a new update to Logic Pro X. There's a lot of new cool tools in here for musicians,

0:20:49and that's the focus of the release, of course, because Logic is a music app.

0:20:54But the Logic team do publish vast release notes, which is wonderful. And they detail a ton of

0:21:01performance improvements for all Logic users. So I use Logic, Jason uses Logic, and there are

0:21:07some fixes in there that will make stuff easier for us as podcast producers, which is great.

0:21:11- Yeah. I mean, most of the features are music features because it's a music app. I had a back

0:21:15and forth with somebody on Twitter about this, and it's like, their thesis was, "Wow, this is

0:21:20a really, you know, kind of a black eye for podcasting that Apple doesn't really care about

0:21:23it, and all the Logic features are music." But Logic's a music app. It's a music production app.

0:21:28It's always been, podcasters use a tiny, tiny, tiny fraction of the features. I don't expect them

0:21:34to cater to me at all. I expect to live in a little, you know, little space between two

0:21:40rocks, like a little crack. I crawl in there and use Logic and like, just hope that they don't

0:21:46squash me because I'm not supposed to be there. I'm, you know, and that's true for podcasters.

0:21:52It's not a spoken word thing. It's not, in fact, the bug that they fixed, one of my big complaints

0:21:57involves large projects with lots and lots and lots of individual items. And when I'm editing

0:22:04a four-hour D&D session and I use the silence removal feature to pull silence out, you end up

0:22:12with thousands of little tiny blobs of audio across four hours of a Logic project. And the fact is,

0:22:18that is so far out of what you would get in your usual music project in Logic. And I suspect that

0:22:26I am one of the first people, one of the very few people, to discover a huge slowdown when you

0:22:33do that. Like, you click on an item, you select a bunch of items, like thousands of items, and you

0:22:37want to move them a little bit as a part of your podcast edit. And it's really slow. Even on a very

0:22:43fast Mac, it's incredibly slow. And I mentioned this to somebody on the Pro Apps team, the Pro

0:22:49Workflows team, actually. And I don't know if that had any effect or not, but I sent a sample project

0:22:55in. This was like a year ago, but that bug got fixed. It's in the release notes. It's like,

0:23:01it's much better. And I like that because that's not a feature that people who are making songs in

0:23:09Logic are going to have to deal with. Now, maybe there are some other extenuating circumstances,

0:23:13but I kind of feel like that was a good example of them saying, "Oh, yeah, it shouldn't do that.

0:23:18Why are they, why are people doing it this way? Oh, it's podcasters. All right. Okay, we'll fix

0:23:22that." And they did. So I'm happy to continue using Logic. I don't use it as much as I used to,

0:23:28because I am editing so much more on Fairite on the iPad now, but I do use Logic many times a week.

0:23:34And I'm glad that this update has some nice things in it for us, but it's not a tool for us. And most

0:23:41of the nice things that are in this update are for the musicians that it should be for.

0:23:45All right, let's take our first break and thank our friends over at Linode for their support of

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0:24:59and the promo code UPGRADE2020 for that $20 credit. Thanks to Linode for their support

0:25:04of this show and all of Relay FM. All right, Jason, let's do some upstream headlines.

0:25:11In upstream, we take a cursory look at some of the interesting news that is occurring in the

0:25:18streaming media landscape, something that I think we're both probably very excited about. Out of the

0:25:22blue, Hamilton is coming to Disney+. This was a movie that was originally slated for a theatrical

0:25:29release in October 2021, and it's now coming on July 3rd on Disney+. Yeah, I saw a couple of

0:25:36news stories that said they brought it forward from October, and it's like, no, it was going to

0:25:40be released in October 2021 in theaters. And they've decided, one of the things that's

0:25:46happening here is a lot of movies are getting pushed back because nobody really knows when

0:25:50those, when theaters are going to be up and running at full strength. And this is something

0:25:56that they already have in hand because it's not a, it's not like a dramatization, like a movie,

0:26:01it's not a movie version of Hamilton. It is a filmed version of the original Broadway cast.

0:26:08They took a couple of days and shot it. So it's, you know, it's shot like a movie and there are

0:26:11closeups and stuff like that, but it's, it's on stage at the theater and on Broadway with the

0:26:18original cast. And they've had it in the vault. There have been little clips that have come out

0:26:21here and there, 60 Minutes, the story about Hamilton that had some clips in it. A few things

0:26:25have leaked out. It looks great, right? Like they, it is the definitive document. Hamilton was so

0:26:29successful that they were able to spend the money upfront, take a couple of days and shoot the

0:26:35original Broadway cast and document them. I wish every great musical and every great Broadway show

0:26:42of all time got this treatment because it is a way to document this thing that is otherwise

0:26:46completely ephemeral. And it'll be higher quality than that version that somebody shot from their

0:26:53smartphone from the balcony that went around the internet, right? But it's in a can, it's done.

0:26:58And it was just waiting for a good time that Disney thought it would be like a good time for

0:27:02it to come out. And also they didn't want to clash with all the productions that were there

0:27:06that were, that were running in various cities, but no productions are running.

0:27:09And the schedule is getting backed up. And I think it's, I think it's great as somebody who likes

0:27:15Hamilton, but also I think it's a fascinating thing where Disney for this one was like, you know,

0:27:19we've got it in hand. It's not going to clash with the theaters because there aren't any,

0:27:22let's just put it on Disney plus and they're doing it July 3rd. It's the 4th of July

0:27:27Independence Day in America for Hamilton. Super appropriate time to do it. So I'm very excited.

0:27:34We'll all get to see this thing that we've all known existed for, right? For a few years now,

0:27:40we've known that this thing existed and it's like, are they ever going to show it? And they finally

0:27:43announced that it was going to come to theaters, but it was going to be a year and a half until

0:27:46we saw it. And guess what? It's going to be less than two months now, Myke.

0:27:50- I am so excited for this. I'm going to watch it like a billion times. I just can't wait. Like,

0:27:56I've really, I can't wait for it. I'm so excited. Like I have, I obviously massive fan of Hamilton.

0:28:04I think I've seen it three times now in London and I've listened to the album like a million times

0:28:11and I've always wanted to see, actually see the original cast, like what I know the most.

0:28:18- We've heard them. We've heard them.

0:28:19- Which is the recording. And yeah, so I'm so excited to see this. Like it really,

0:28:24I'm so pleased. I'm so pleased they're doing this. It makes so much sense. Like why, you know,

0:28:28it was always a thing of like, why was it always going to come out in October, 2021 anyway? It was

0:28:32like such a far away time for what seemed like a movie that was already done in, you know, when

0:28:40Disney originally announced it, they kind of seemed to hint that they were going to be adding more to

0:28:44it than the original stage recording, but I'm not sure if that's the case or maybe they changed

0:28:49plans and they're just like, no, let's just release what we have.

0:28:52- Maybe they can't do it. I don't know where they got like take a,

0:28:55I was wondering if they were going to take like a cut song and have the original cast sing it and

0:29:01put it over the end credits or something like that. Right. And who knows, maybe they will,

0:29:04or maybe they didn't get time to do it and they're just going to go with what they've got.

0:29:07A little tangent from this is that I've been watching the Disney Plus documentary series

0:29:15about the Mandalorian, which there are three episodes I think out now and it's fun. It's like,

0:29:19it's kind of like a DVD extra basically, but it's fun. It's Jon Favreau sitting around a table like

0:29:25he does. He'd had a whole TV show where he did that with the actors and directors and producers

0:29:31of the Mandalorian. And it's really a fascinating, that was a fascinating production. And it's fun to

0:29:37see them talk about it. But I was struck by the fact that, you know, Disney Plus is a good example

0:29:42of a service that didn't have a big pipeline of originals to begin with. And you have nothing being

0:29:50shot right now. So Hamilton moving forward and going on Disney Plus is a great example

0:29:57of getting more value in that service where they can. The Mandalorian season two was shot. And in

0:30:03fact, there have been a lot of things that have leaked out about people who've been cast in it.

0:30:08So this brings me to my tangent, which is post-production in Virusland,

0:30:14that a lot of the shows, see, if a show can't be shot, there was one show, The Blacklist,

0:30:20that just finished its season on NBC. And they shut down during the filming of their final episode

0:30:25of the season. So they computer animated the scenes they didn't shot. Doctor Who fans will

0:30:31recognize this as what happened with Shada, the Douglas Adams written story where they did many

0:30:37years later animate the scenes that weren't shot so they could release it. It's very strange. But

0:30:43The Blacklist did it because I guess they just wanted to do it. It's very, very, very strange.

0:30:47Okay, so like this isn't necessarily a bad idea, but they did it on an incredibly low budget,

0:30:54because apparently the show would run out of money. And it shows it's bad.

0:30:59It's super weird and stylized and, you know, but I get what they were trying. I kept watching it

0:31:06thinking you should probably, when you're able to shoot again, you should probably shoot all these

0:31:12scenes and replace them and never have this be seen again, right? Like you shouldn't, don't leave

0:31:16this out there as a historic document. Just erase all memory of it. - This comes out on DVD or

0:31:20streaming, like just replace it. - Just replace it. - Yeah. - So, but this is, I did a link on

0:31:27Six Colors about this. Like there's a lot of this. So Mandalorian, I believe, is still going to come

0:31:32out this year because they shot all of season two. So they have to do post-production. And we've seen

0:31:37a lot of shots of like people doing work from their houses. You know, ILM is doing special

0:31:45effects where everybody's in their houses. There was a shot of one of the editors on Star Trek

0:31:51Discovery season three, which has also completed all of its photography. And they were doing,

0:31:56you know, there was a great shot a while ago of the, like an old trashcan Mac Pro and some monitors

0:32:02next, you know, in somebody's house with like the staircase and some pictures on the walls. And

0:32:06they're just, they're a video editor and they're doing it from home now. And the story I linked to

0:32:11on Six Colors last week was from Jeff Russo, who is the composer of Star Trek Discovery.

0:32:16And initially when this all started, he was like, well, I'm not going to be able to do the score

0:32:21until we come back. But he's realized that that's going to be a while until he can get a whole

0:32:27orchestra together to play. So they are doing the music for that. And I think he did it for Umbrella

0:32:33Academy this way too, which is they are recording individual people. They're sending them gear and

0:32:39telling them how to set it up. Individual players are recording their parts. And then they're using

0:32:44their, you know, using logic or another digital audio workstation to assemble all the individual

0:32:50parts together to make it sound like they're playing as an ensemble. But it's entirely individual

0:32:57recordings from people's houses playing along with the music, which is how they do all these other

0:33:02group performances, including the Hamilton one that was on John Krasinski's Some Good News show

0:33:08a few weeks ago. Like that's how you do it is everybody's recording to a sync track and then you

0:33:13put it all together and you've got something that sounds really good, even though they weren't

0:33:17together and none of them heard the whole thing when they were recording it. But I'm fascinated

0:33:21that essentially you're doing an ensemble or a like a small orchestra doing a soundtrack to a TV

0:33:28show and that's all happening remotely too. So we're going to see some really interesting stuff

0:33:32in the next few months of things as we finish the stuff that's in the can before the virus hit

0:33:38and start seeing the stuff that was shot before the virus hit but had to be post-production had

0:33:43to happen after the fact. And it's kind of fascinating but it is cool that we have the

0:33:46technology to do all this stuff. Apple have signed a first look TV deal with Ridley Scott's production

0:33:52company, Scott Free. Scott Free produced a bunch of movies but their TV stuff includes The Good Wife

0:33:58and The Man in the High Castle as like some of their most successful programs. So this is just

0:34:04a TV only deal but Apple's going to get first look at any projects coming from Scott Free.

0:34:10So continuing to sign on big creators which is you know interesting for them. We'll see if the

0:34:16content exists. Mythic Quest. So this is the video game company TV show that I still haven't seen but

0:34:24want to see. It's high on my list of things. I've seen one episode and it was funny and I need to

0:34:28see more. So they're going to be airing a special episode on May 22nd I think it is. They're doing

0:34:35like a quarantine episode. So it's like how a game company would be dealing with stay at home orders

0:34:44and working over Zoom. So they're just it's all shot on iPhone. I think it was one of those things

0:34:49that are like hey we could just do this. So they're doing it. It was a bonus. We're an Apple TV plus

0:34:54we can get iPhones. Yeah but I think it's one of those things where it's like this makes sense of

0:34:59in the context of the show which for many shows it won't no matter how much they try but this

0:35:03makes sense within the context of the show. Could be and I'm sure will be funny in its own way

0:35:09and is also a PR piece for Apple because look at how good this looks shot on iPhones.

0:35:15So you know I think it's a clever idea. It's like a one-off but that's something that's going to be

0:35:20coming out on May 22nd. I want to talk about Apple released a letter yesterday. A kind of a how they're

0:35:27reopening their stores. So I want to give the rundown of what Apple's going to be doing. This

0:35:32came from Deidre O'Brien, Apple's people head. They currently have 100 Apple stores opened around the

0:35:38world and that's changing a lot now. They're opening more. They're opening more in the US

0:35:42this week. They're opening in Italy this week as well I believe. In the stores that are opening and

0:35:47in stores that will open these are the measures that Apple are going to take. They're going to be

0:35:51limiting occupancy to enable social distancing so it'll be keeping people outside. Queues right.

0:35:56It's going to look like iPhone day every day. They're going to be renewing their focus on

0:36:01one-on-one service at the Genius Bar. Now here's a question. I feel like I haven't heard the phrase

0:36:06Genius Bar in a while. Am I wrong? Yeah. Yeah it has not been an emphasized brand name but yeah.

0:36:12Genius Bar is back baby. So that's the thing. They're going to be requiring face coverings for

0:36:19anybody going into an Apple store. If you don't have one Apple will be giving you one. Temperature

0:36:24checks will be required before entry of any stores and they may also ask you health questions. They're

0:36:29going to have like posters and stuff for symptoms. They may ask you symptoms and they're going to be

0:36:34doing cleaning, wiping down of devices and surfaces throughout the day. So they're going to be doing

0:36:44curbside pickup and drop off for this is a thing that Apple haven't done before but it's going to

0:36:49be an option so you can order online and they'll bring it out to the curb or they'll come and take

0:36:54something from you if you're bringing it in for repair. Yeah this is going to be this is very

0:37:00different and a lot of people are going to be very uncomfortable with it. I think at Apple and

0:37:07outside of Apple it's super strange right to imagine going to a retail store and they're saying

0:37:14put this over your face and we're going to take your temperature. Yeah like this is going to

0:37:18redefine redefine what the Apple store does but I think a part of that too is that they we live in

0:37:24a world where a lot of stuff is going to be redefined at least temporarily and so you know

0:37:28I had this experience last week I talked about it where my wife's phone you know the battery swelled

0:37:33and we needed to replace it and in the old days I would have just taken it to the Apple store on

0:37:37Monday and replaced it and instead I had to wait two days for the box to come and then put it in

0:37:43the box and then mail it back to them and then they'll get it and then they'll mail one back to

0:37:46us and that's how it's going to work and they've always offered that but like the convenience of

0:37:50Apple retail stores is you could just drive one exit up the freeway and do this so that stuff

0:37:55coming back kind of makes sense to me if you're if you need to buy something to go there and and

0:38:00I mean you can get it online and they're going to push people there but you could always do in-store

0:38:06pickup not just kind of wander in but and I think there'll be more of that right a lot of retail

0:38:11stores when they come back are coming back in a sort of curbside service I'm going to place my order

0:38:16and then I'm going to go and say I have an order ready to be picked up and they'll bring it out

0:38:20and that's it right like you're not going to linger in the store my understanding is that the capacity

0:38:24of stores is way down to like including the employees they're really reducing how many

0:38:28employees are going to be in so the service is going to be slower it's not just that you're

0:38:32going to wait in line because there are fewer people in the store but service will also be

0:38:35slower potentially here but you know this is this is where we are oh they want they're gonna my

0:38:42understanding is they're not going to do like in-store device setup like they used to do they

0:38:46like to like take it out of the box and do all that it's too much time right with a person takes

0:38:50too much time yeah and and of course you're trying to minimize the amount of time anybody's spending

0:38:54inside an enclosed space anyway so yeah I would imagine that unless you demand to have help setting

0:39:02up your iPhone that they're just going to give you the phone in a little bag and say goodbye

0:39:05and and it'll be like that for a while but if you've got a broken piece of equipment and you

0:39:10haven't been able to take it to an Apple store to get it fixed or something like that at least

0:39:14that kind of stuff is is hopefully going to come back and but this is an interim state right it's

0:39:21it's not the Apple store we know it's like a different kind of Apple retail because I mean

0:39:27I assume something that going to de-emphasize which seems like people shouldn't be doing this

0:39:32anyway but Apple should also limit it it's like you shouldn't be going in there to browse

0:39:35yeah like browsing in retail stores needs to stop for now right like that just seems logical to me

0:39:43because why like why you know like go to the Apple store if you have something to do like you have to

0:39:50do your computer is broken and you got to work go to the Apple store get it fixed but like if you

0:39:55want to buy a product just buy it online right like I don't and if you need it today you can

0:40:01probably buy it for in-store pickup yeah today and then you go there and wait in the line and they

0:40:06hand it to you when you leave but yeah you're flipping through like watch bands and stuff yes

0:40:11it's probably not not the best use that that said if you are seriously considering buying a new

0:40:18laptop and you can't decide between the 13-inch MacBook Pro and the retina MacBook Air and you

0:40:23want to see them I you know I think you're going to be able to go into the store with a mask on

0:40:29and look at them and touch them but I see that as different to browsing it's true it's not it's

0:40:34it's more tactical right yes and everything you touch with your filthy filthy fingers will be

0:40:38immediately sanitized by an Apple employee but you'll you'll get the opportunity to do that but

0:40:42yeah it's a different world yeah it's like if you do need to buy a laptop or you need to buy a phone

0:40:46right you have to and you don't know what you want well that Apple store is there to help you go in

0:40:51and take a look at it but you shouldn't just be popping to the Apple store like you maybe would

0:40:57have before to take a look at the new Apple watch band colors like don't you don't do that just don't

0:41:03just don't buy the band or buy it online and return it if you don't like it like don't go to the store

0:41:09because like going to an Apple store is gonna suck right like you have to go and stand in a line and

0:41:15you'll be there for a long time then someone's gonna take your temperature which is just freaking

0:41:20weird right like it's just weird to have to do that like I'm so pleased they are doing it one

0:41:26of those little laser scanner thingies where it'd be like but it's just like a very strange thing to

0:41:32to submit yourself to right like having your temperature taken I want to make it very clear

0:41:37I'm very pleased they're doing it they should be doing it stores should do this stuff right to

0:41:42protect their employees but it's a very peculiar thing to go and do so don't just do it for fun

0:41:49right like very specific reasons that you should be going to these places anywhere now really

0:41:56um no no browsing just don't go browse I feel so bad for the Apple store employees like I just

0:42:03I feel so bad for them you know like it just seems like not a great situation to have to be in so

0:42:10especially when they're working for a company where like everybody else has been told to stay

0:42:15at home but if you're in retail you've now got to go back to public and there's just something

0:42:23that's uncomfortable about that right and it's a shame so I don't know if it makes any difference

0:42:29but I'll just say it like if you're listening to the show just don't go to the Apple store like

0:42:33unless you have to unless you have to really think about that like really do you have to do you have

0:42:40to in the sense of like you might jeopardize your own health have to this is the larger story about

0:42:46like reopening businesses after everything just completely shut down which is the watchword here

0:42:54still needs to be minimize your chances of exposure right that's the fundamental is just

0:43:00the more times you go outside the house the more times you get close to other people the more times

0:43:06especially you are in enclosed spaces with other people around the more chance you have

0:43:12of potentially spreading or getting this disease so even though things are open now

0:43:18follow those rules right like do I need to do this and like just like we've been doing that

0:43:27for shopping right we used to go um Lauren always talks about how she she would go like you go to

0:43:33Trader Joe's you go to Whole Foods you go to Safeway you go to Costco you get different things

0:43:36different places and all that the best of all the things you want and now it's like we go to Safeway

0:43:42once a week and maybe if we're out of something in particular during the week we will do a quick

0:43:48thing to Whole Foods but it's one of us and it's in and out and that's just about minimizing your

0:43:54chances of exposure and that goes for the Apple store too if you need to go go once it's open

0:43:59great but um so much stuff can be done without going to the physical store or if you do need to

0:44:06go get something like I said same day or next day you can do an online order and they'll bring it

0:44:12out to you I think so that's the way to do it. All right let's take a break this episode is brought

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0:45:49show and all of relay FM Taiwan Semiconductor are opening a fabrication factory based in Arizona

0:45:59Taiwan Semiconductor will begin construction on this new chip factory in 2021 with the first chips

0:46:05likely to be shipping from 2024 TSMC are the manufacturer of Apple's A series processors

0:46:13this is very interesting this is very interesting it is I if you're a member of Stratechery Ben

0:46:20Thompson site I highly recommend a piece that he wrote last week about Taiwan and tech's geopolitical

0:46:26realities Ben Thompson lives in Taiwan so he has a very good perspective on this and TSMC these the

0:46:34chip makers they're basically the leader in chip manufacturing now having surpassed Intel but the

0:46:39difference is that they are a chip maker for hire and Intel insists on making their own stuff and

0:46:46this is fascinating because Intel has made chips in America for a long time but Ben Thompson's point

0:46:51is this is a real strategic opportunity to not only broaden the places that make these chips by having

0:47:00them also make them in the US and not just in Taiwan it potentially has a huge issue for the

0:47:06international balance of power which is kind of fascinating because Taiwan is the most disputed

0:47:13place on the planet in terms of China and the US to superpowers and if you think about vulnerabilities

0:47:23having all of your chips made in Taiwan is potentially one also talking about manufacturing

0:47:29more things in the US you know Intel has had the opportunity to do chip making for hire for a long

0:47:35time and always resisted and TSMC building a plant in Arizona it's just really interesting whether

0:47:41Apple uses it or not although it wouldn't surprise me if Apple is interested in this as part of their

0:47:47kind of diversification of their of their supply chain maybe they can use that space that that

0:47:52the glass manufacturer that went out of business was going to use in Arizona I think that this

0:47:59makes a lot of sense politically for Apple right like it allows them as they move even further

0:48:07again like one of the reasons I included this in the show today is because it comes back to arm

0:48:11again right if Apple are going to move to designing their own processes for all of their products

0:48:18TSMC will be working with them more and more right like because then potentially TSMC will be making

0:48:27all of the chips that go into Apple's Macs yeah it's all that Intel business moves over to TSMC

0:48:32so this will allow them to say again right more and more of our products are being made in America

0:48:40or parts are being made in America plus there are just like logistical benefits right flying

0:48:46people to Arizona or just setting up a shop in Arizona rather than flying people to Taiwan

0:48:53right like that has got to be a massive benefit logistically for Apple as well ultimately the

0:49:00chips need to go from Arizona maybe to somewhere else or this is like another piece of allowing

0:49:08for more products to be assembled in America right which is again for many reasons something Apple

0:49:16might want to do there is a diversification angle to this right just in general right like

0:49:21and I would imagine companies all over the world now no matter where your stuff is made are

0:49:26thinking about can we diversify right like this is our points of failure right because you can

0:49:34imagine right as coronavirus hit you could have put more work into the Arizona factory for three

0:49:40months until the Taiwan factories or the China factories are back online and you can move the

0:49:46production back there as the Arizona factory shuts down right like that would have been a great

0:49:51benefit to have these multiple plants available to you so this is like another I mean this is

0:49:58the reason that TSMC are doing this I'm sure they've gotten a ton of great breaks right and

0:50:05you don't you don't build a factory you don't commit to building a factory unless you've got

0:50:10yeah tax breaks and probably customers who will pay you to build the factory to you know with

0:50:17with their contracts so it's entirely possible and I don't know the the facts that this is you know

0:50:23Arizona is giving them a break and Apple is saying they're in and other clients are saying they're

0:50:29in and they're like well yeah okay let's do it let's yeah let's build this because building a

0:50:32new chip factory is not cheap but there are you know microprocessor this is microprocessors have

0:50:38been made in the U.S. for a long time this isn't one of those things where it's like well this is

0:50:42weird this is a whole new class of thing that's being made in the U.S. this is a thing that's been

0:50:46made you know Intel especially but IBM and others and yeah it's like again I'm struck by Ben Thompson's

0:50:54read on this which is this is this is kind of TSMC eating out eating Intel's lunch a little bit

0:51:00where Intel had the opportunity to to take on this kind of work and build these factories or use their

0:51:07existing factories and TSMC has excelled in saying we'll build whatever you want and now they're going

0:51:13to be building it on Intel's home turf and that's really interesting. It was a report from Digiday

0:51:18about from a bunch of sources inside of the media industry that Apple has been contacting existing

0:51:26Apple News Plus publishers to get permission to produce professional audio versions of their

0:51:32stories. In this agreement Apple would handle all of the production and the cost for the recordings

0:51:38compensating publishers the same way that they do now so 50% of the subscription fee to Apple News

0:51:44Plus based on the amount of time spent with a publisher right so if people are reading your

0:51:50stuff you get and like I don't know I would assume Apple collect up all of the time and all of the

0:51:57links consumed over the course of a month work out who had the most people and then splits their cut

0:52:05up amongst it. It's very complicated and causes lots of frustration for people that are in the

0:52:12Apple News Plus program but that's the way that they're doing it. This idea of professionally read

0:52:19versions of news stories is something that exists in the news industry already. Some publishers do

0:52:25it directly. There are some companies I do not remember the name off the top of my head but there

0:52:29is a company in the UK which is like a coalition of various newspaper companies. They created a

0:52:36company together that does this for them right because like I think Good Guardians involved and

0:52:42I know the financial times has this as well but like so there's just you have a company that's

0:52:46got a whole bunch of readers and then they distribute the stuff out and they turn it around

0:52:49and they sit there and they just read articles all day long and then those get published out and

0:52:53that's how you get a professionally read version of those stories because you have to you have to

0:52:59turn it around fast. But I wonder how this will look. I saw several people mention this is great

0:53:05for accessibility right because you're going to have better audio access to this content.

0:53:11I do wonder if this is going to end up being almost like a podcast where if you're an Apple

0:53:17News Plus subscriber you have the ability to basically say you know play my top stories and

0:53:22have it just play a bunch of stories. It's not going to be the same quite as a podcast but it's

0:53:27kind of like that of just give me an audio feed of whatever the news is and whatever top stories

0:53:32algorithmically have audio attached it'll just play those until you tell it to stop.

0:53:36You can do it through the HomePod you can do it obviously on your other devices. It's an interesting

0:53:41idea. And also as well for people like me who do not enjoy reading especially really long articles

0:53:48this would be a great way for me to consume that content. So you just mentioned Ben Thompson. I

0:53:54have long wanted to subscribe to Stratechery because people always talk about how good the

0:53:59content is but I just wouldn't read a newsletter every day. A few months ago Ben created the

0:54:06Stratechery Daily Update podcast and I'd listen every single day because it is like a 10 or 15

0:54:13minute or him reading the email is great for me because that fits my consumption habits and

0:54:21preferences. So this is a thing where like I would only now be interested in Apple News Plus if they

0:54:29offered this. It seems like if the price stayed the same good deal for consumers it's like an

0:54:36additional benefit of the service provided that the content that you want to consume is there

0:54:41right because one they've got to it's you know the stuff that you want to know has got to be in

0:54:48Apple News Plus and then two that company that outlet would have had to agree for Apple to do

0:54:54this for their stories and I guess three the particular stories you're interested in have

0:54:59to be recorded right because there is like a person at hour in this right like it's a time

0:55:05to produce because they're not doing this with like a Siri voice is the understanding like it's

0:55:11actually people reading professional readers yeah in my opinion this should have been part of the

0:55:18Apple News Plus subscription from the beginning like it would have made it more compelling

0:55:22it's just like a package but adding it later will still be interesting from the Digiday article as

0:55:30you can imagine this is being met with some skepticism from publishers which is why Digiday

0:55:35know about it anyway because people in the media industry are complaining. Apple News Plus is still

0:55:42continuing to not work out financially for publishers that are on board with it because

0:55:47there aren't enough subscribers because there isn't enough of a hook for people to sign up and Apple's

0:55:53taking 50% of a $5 a month subscription but a lot of publishers are worried that audio stories

0:56:00because they take longer to consume will continue to further skew who gets the payouts so it's like

0:56:07a chicken and egg problem here if you don't sign up to this you may actually serve to to lose more

0:56:14money right because someone may read your article for a couple of minutes and then listen to your

0:56:21competitors for 10 and even though the articles may be the same length people a lot of people

0:56:26read faster than they can you know then something could be read to them so it's going to further

0:56:30skew where these payouts are coming from I wonder what's going to happen here but I will say as a

0:56:36consumer this is an interesting proposition for me what do you think? I'm fascinated by it

0:56:43it's not my thing it's your thing so I like to hear your perspective about it so I appreciate

0:56:50that I'm not going to ever choose listening if I was in a car commute or something again I might

0:56:57listen to something like this but for me Ben's newsletter is always preferred and I don't listen

0:57:02to his podcast unless it's an interview yeah because I'd rather listen to an interview than

0:57:06read an interview transcript but I'd rather read a written piece rather than hear the writer read it

0:57:12out loud but the the idea here is to provide other avenues for it and that's why I think it's super

0:57:17smart is not everybody wants I think about this all the time as somebody who's a writer also a

0:57:22podcaster right but I'm also a writer and I think about those pieces and sometimes I feel like I

0:57:29know there's a lot of overlap but my stories have an audience which is readers and my podcasts have

0:57:34an audience which is listeners and there is a portion of each audience that is not on the other

0:57:41side like there are people who listen to this podcast who don't want to read my articles

0:57:45because they don't want to read and there are people who read my articles who don't listen

0:57:50to podcasts so it's a smart way to get more people reading your stuff or in consuming I guess

0:57:57consuming your content in some way so I will ask you as a producer of content right would you

0:58:07be open to this and I guess point two somebody who already produces audio how would you feel about

0:58:14someone else reading your stuff so first thing is six colors I have thought about it you know

0:58:21I'm not sure whether there's great value in reading six colors pieces for members but I thought about

0:58:27it it's a lot of extra work I would just say like as a six colors subscriber I would love I'm just

0:58:33telling you right now so you can file this feature request wherever you want but yeah I'll file it

0:58:37somewhere not of your articles but of the newsletter yeah well that's what I was thinking

0:58:43is essentially the member members only articles could that be a monthly or even weekly article by

0:58:49article kind of thing I definitely have thought about it and will continue to think about it

0:58:53it is people in the discord are pointing out like news on a regular basis it reminds them of

0:59:01we did subnet on relay yeah it's a daily news podcast and my memory of that is and Stephen

0:59:07Hackett's memory even more so is it's a lot of work and it's every day kind of work and that's

0:59:13that's the thing whenever you commit to doing something like that you're not just committing

0:59:16to doing it once you're committing to doing it the same every single time and that is a big

0:59:21commitment so it's not one that you take lightly you have to really seriously consider it but that

0:59:26type of content like you know from the reverse it's much easier to I don't want to use this word

0:59:34but I have no other way to say it monetize content like this with direct payment than it is of

0:59:39advertising it's very hard to to advertising on a three time a week 10 minute exactly oh yeah that

0:59:47doesn't it doesn't make sense it's definitely something that fits better as a as a premium

0:59:51kind of thing yeah I have a little more hesitation about having somebody else or read my pieces for

0:59:57me then again it's always that thing where it's like if if Apple's gonna back up a truck full of

1:00:03money to my house and and say here we want to have all your stories and we're gonna have some

1:00:09random person read them I would say yes I think the interesting thing about this report is that

1:00:14the publishers are already a little bit skeptical and these are additional rights and

1:00:20they're already kind of skeptical so is there a renegotiation here which is okay we're going to

1:00:25give you this but we want you to reduce your cut or something like that because yeah it's all part

1:00:30of a negotiation but you know if it's worth it to them also you got to think about Apple News

1:00:35one of the appeals of Apple News is it's another another revenue generating opportunity for a lot

1:00:43of publishers without them having to do a lot in terms of building their own technology they're

1:00:48using apples and this would be more of the same right they don't have to hire readers

1:00:53and build a subscription audio feed or anything they just say okay apple do it and you know then

1:01:01again the the flip side of that is if they all have their own subscribers yeah and they look at

1:01:07this and they think well wait a second why shouldn't we do this and give it to our subscribers or the

1:01:11publications that do already do it because there are some exactly and it's kind of like oh you know

1:01:17like you can imagine for them it's like you're now encroaching on another one of our unique points

1:01:22for why people should give us money directly in many ways this is just more of the same about

1:01:27Apple News which is it's Apple wanting to build this thing publishers being skeptical this is

1:01:33another way that Apple can make Apple News plus a better service yeah but it hits all the same

1:01:40questions that this whole thing hits in terms of why as a publisher you would be a part of this

1:01:48service when you sell your own you know and it's always interesting to us like this is Apple and

1:01:56audio production now like hmm right like we have been wondering about this for a while you know

1:02:04like Apple seem to be making hires in the podcast space right it wouldn't surprise me I mean I said

1:02:11it would be podcast like it wouldn't surprise me if part of the strategy here is actually to build

1:02:15a news podcast for Apple News plus subscribers that includes the contents of stories on Apple

1:02:23News plus but it is not just a dry now I will read a story but something that's a little more produced

1:02:29that would be a product that would be we talked about like premium podcasts from Apple well what

1:02:35if it was a premium audio program not a podcast that was just for Apple News plus subscribers

1:02:41could be could that could be something they could do too that's different but they it could be part

1:02:46of this you know kind of larger approach to them but it comes back to the the content owners and

1:02:52whether they're getting you know Apple doesn't have a service if the content owners don't play

1:02:57ball so Apple has to make it worth their while in the long run like I think the biggest impediment

1:03:02to the long-term success of Apple News plus isn't really the quality of the services built by Apple

1:03:08it's whether they have the content sources or not because I think looking at it now I feel like it's

1:03:14more likely that everybody walks away than that they pick up more people and they add more services

1:03:19to the to the bundle I think I still am dubious about whether this is a good long-term play for

1:03:25any publisher so this is it's it'll it'll be fascinating to see how this how this works and

1:03:31if they negotiate better terms but uh but all the same things come into play which is like great

1:03:36it's great that Apple's doing this shouldn't you be doing this yourself and and selling it directly

1:03:40I wonder if we're gonna see departures like I wonder if there are contracts in place for like

1:03:46term periods that people had to be on Apple News plus for you know like bigger publishers like

1:03:51agree to do it for like a year 18 months something like that like if that's the case we start seeing

1:03:56companies leave the platform like everyone's so unhappy about it right surely you're gonna start

1:04:03to see people leaving it at some point like if they don't think that it's worth it for them

1:04:08it's gonna be interesting to see how that one plays out I think

1:04:13yeah but Apple News plus is still unfortunately the ugly duckling of the streaming services like

1:04:18Apple's like subscription services their their services area it really isn't the one that's

1:04:25that's making waves people don't necessarily on the whole seem very happy with it on either side

1:04:30but I'm I'm actually pleased to see that they're appear to be doing something right like they're

1:04:38not just taking it and just like like taking it lying down basically like they are trying to make

1:04:44it a better service for everyone involved whether people like it or not I guess yes yeah well put

1:04:52we're gonna make this better whether you like it or not all right this episode is also brought to

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1:06:06solarwinds for their support of this show and relay fm hashtag ask upgrade time first question

1:06:14comes from a discord user who used the question mark ask upgrade tag in discord as latan asks

1:06:20if you are using screen time how much of a difference are you seeing between your devices

1:06:27or how much difference are you seeing on your devices now that you are mostly stuck inside so

1:06:32i actually think it's kind of funny right now when i get the screen time notification kind of like on

1:06:37a sunday night monday morning whenever it comes through because it is varying wildly for me right

1:06:42now jason some weeks i'm up like 50 some weeks down 50 and i don't really know why i am varying

1:06:50the levels that i am but i'm seeing these huge differences right now if you do you use screen

1:06:55time oh i have completely given up on screen time because i find the information it gives me

1:07:01completely useless yeah also you know i use my devices i feel like the premise of screen time

1:07:09is basically you should meter how much you use a device because it's a kind of part it's a part of

1:07:14your lifestyle that should be less optional and reduced and all those things is like oh this is my

1:07:20job it's my job i i you know my using my ipad i use my ipad an awful lot some of that is for fun and

1:07:28a lot of it is for work and the phone i use it a lot less than that but so for me screen time

1:07:34essentially is useless so i i have noticed some of those push notifications coming in

1:07:38and during the quarantine and laughed at how it's like oh you used it for last time and i think

1:07:43really did i how is that possible and i don't it doesn't make any sense to me so i've given up

1:07:48completely yeah i every now and then i'll pop in there and and take a look at it but like right now

1:07:55the the the data isn't really useful to me because these are unexpected situations that i'm finding

1:08:04myself in like i can't compare my device usage to two months ago because it is different and it's

1:08:10different in different and weird ways so but i do find it funny to get that notification at the

1:08:15moment to see these huge swings like i was flicking through the the weeks today and like i have 50

1:08:21up on last week for and then the week before was 40 down on the week before that like it's just

1:08:27these wild swings at the moment uh neva asks what clipboard managers do you guys use if you use one

1:08:33i am a launch bar person i use launch bar and it has a clipboard manager in it

1:08:44so that i can very quickly just hit a keyboard shortcut and it actually launch bar appears with

1:08:49a list of the last i don't know 10 15 clipboards and so that's how i i use it and it's great by

1:08:56the way this i feel like we say this every so often it doesn't matter which one you use try

1:09:00out a clipboard manager because first off if you've ever been somebody who copied something

1:09:04to put it somewhere else and then something happened along the way and you copied something

1:09:08else and then you're like oh i lost the thing i was copying clipboard manager it's got a history

1:09:13that's how i use it and it's great i don't have like it's literally just a history list and that's

1:09:18all i ever use it for and i can scroll through and find the thing it also is great when you're

1:09:22in that moment where you've got to copy five different separate things from one place and

1:09:26paste it somewhere else and you're usually going copy switch paste switch copy switch paste and now

1:09:33you can just go copy copy copy copy switch paste paste paste paste because you've got all those

1:09:38copies in your history so it's great the one i use is launch bar i use alfred launch bar and alfred

1:09:45ostensibly the same thing they're very similar yeah yeah you know they are pretty much just

1:09:51like they start as launcher applications like basically more powerful different spotlight

1:09:58replacements um and they do different things and they have different uis and they have some parts

1:10:04that are different i use alfred and i believe that clipboard management is a part of their power pack

1:10:08which is like an upgrade that you can use um and i use my uh i use my clipboard manager a lot on my

1:10:15mac like especially for the stuff that i'm doing when i'm posting shows because like for example

1:10:19jason writes a title and a description and a short description that we tweet and he sends them to me

1:10:25in slack before i publish so i just go to slack i copy all three things and then i have them in my

1:10:30clipboard manager to paste them into all of the different fields that i need to paste them in when

1:10:33i'm publishing the shows right because i'll put like i'll put it in forecast which is uh marco

1:10:38armand's tool that we use to uh put our chapters in and stuff while i also put the title and

1:10:43description in there then i'll put the title description into the cms and then i'll put the the

1:10:47the short description into the tweet like they go all over the place so i love having that access

1:10:52like this is one of those things where for a lot of people if they added this to ipad os they

1:10:57wouldn't care but i would love it oh my god i love a clipboard manager built into ipad os

1:11:02it's definitely on my wish list for whatever the next like it will always be on my wish list for

1:11:07ipad until they give it to us i imagine the way it will be implemented is there will be an api to

1:11:13give apps access to the clipboard um in the background or something and they'll basically

1:11:18have to ask and they'll be like this app wants to see everything that's on your clipboard or whatever

1:11:22and you know danger watch out scary but it's like yes please yes please i would like this app to

1:11:27know everything that's on my clipboard because i want to be able to wind it back it would be even

1:11:32better if apple just implemented this itself right it could do it more securely that way

1:11:38but it's such a productivity boost to have multiple clipboards and when i'm on ios it

1:11:43absolutely happens on my ipad all the time where i copy something and it's like the old days i copy

1:11:47something and then i copy something else and i move and i go oh i lost my clipboard didn't i

1:11:52i don't like it i know there are apps that you can use to put parts of your clipboard like you

1:11:58switch to that app and drop it it's like a shelf for clipboard stuff but that's not what i'm talking

1:12:03about like i that that's a fun hack but i'm not really interested in constantly switching to my

1:12:10clipboard helper app in order to have this happen i just want to have it happen like it doesn't

1:12:15yeah yeah i just want it there and like and if it is a case of like i'm not going to be able to bring

1:12:20up a ui and paste it in it doesn't matter if i can just have it as an app it's just collecting it and

1:12:26just slide over that app and just like copy copy copy paste paste paste like would be amazing right

1:12:30like i would love that um that just seems like one of those things where depending on where apple

1:12:36wants to go with ipad os and i think i think that they are pushing ipad os into these power user

1:12:42things i believe that's where they're going with it like the hardware is suggesting that because

1:12:46the hardware is getting more specific right like here is another keyboard it's 300 and it has a

1:12:53trackpad and a cantilevered hinge right like do you need this most people know but professionals

1:12:59you want it right like you know there's like things like that that they're doing which makes me

1:13:03hopeful and this is one of the like again adding the trackpad support right like the

1:13:09all the work that they did makes me hopeful for these weird things and interesting things

1:13:13um but so i hope that this is the kind of stuff that would get added uh kate in the discord

1:13:20this is interesting i'm genuinely intrigued that both of you both me and jason said copy three

1:13:25times and paste four times i don't know why i did it i probably internalized what you said and then

1:13:30just said the same thing well also sometimes you know you you're always pasting more than

1:13:35you're copying otherwise why did you cop why would you ever copy yeah three things and paste two

1:13:40things right like why did you copy that third thing what's going to happen to the third thing

1:13:43so you always have to have it more so you have to and then you paste more than you copy that's just

1:13:48it's just common sense johan asks do you listen to podcasts on your ipad

1:13:52rarely i used to much more before airpods pro because i used to use my ipad when around the

1:14:06house because i would typically have my ipad with me more than my iphone like if i'm doing things or

1:14:11whatever my iphone tends to stay i like leave it around right but now the airpods i enjoy using

1:14:18them so much that if i'm listening to anything around the house like even if no one's in i will

1:14:24use the airpods because they give me additional benefits of like transparency and noise canceling

1:14:28depending on the thing that i'm doing that it's much nicer than listening on a speaker like i

1:14:37would some i sometimes use my iphone speaker but it's only when i cannot use my airpods

1:14:41for some reason right like i like maybe in the shower i was i'm a podcast shower person and i

1:14:47we can't use airpods there uh no uh and so yeah how would you clean your ears if you imagine

1:14:56i don't think airpods are that are rated for that right no they're not it's just anybody who's put

1:15:02them through the washing machine yeah but um i i actually have a um a bluetooth speaker that i use

1:15:08in the shower um i have airpods that i do a lot um i will sometimes just listen on the iphone speaker

1:15:15if i'm making a sandwich or something i don't need to pop my headphones in for that my ipad though

1:15:21it's very rare i have overcast on it and i have it set to stream only and it's usually that i want to

1:15:26listen to a particular thing or somebody sends me a link it's it's very rare and if i didn't have it

1:15:31on there i wouldn't miss it are you a podcast download person oh yes yes i don't i download

1:15:38i download everything i don't stream i don't stream i download i stream i stream just because

1:15:44i subscribe to so many podcasts that if i downloaded everything my phone would fill up

1:15:49like because i i subscribe to way more shows than i listen to and leave like huge back catalogs for

1:15:58me to go and and listen to if i want to but i don't download them interesting interesting yeah

1:16:03fascinating cory asks i know jason talked about this in the past but do you still read comics on

1:16:08the 12.9 inch ipad pro i'm in the market for a new ipad i'm wondering if the bigger tablet

1:16:13is too unwieldy for holding and reading or if it's the right choice to go with

1:16:16cory i do still read comics on the 12.9 i still use the 12.9 you know an 11 inch ipad the comics

1:16:25are all going to be a little smaller and if you have good eyesight it won't matter but it's all

1:16:30the words are going to be smaller all the pictures are going to be smaller it's just not quite full

1:16:35the full size effect that i feel like the 12.9 gives me um ultimately though it really depends

1:16:43on how worried you are about the unwieldiness of it i don't mind having a big 12.9 inch ipad for

1:16:50reading and working and everything else and holding it's fine i'm used to it but it's not

1:16:57for everybody and i would say whether the comics look good on the screen is gonna you need to weigh

1:17:04that based on how much comic reading you do because it will be better on the 12.9 but if you

1:17:11don't do a lot of it and you do lots of other things in your ipad and you're really worried

1:17:14about the weight then it's probably not reason enough to get the 12.9 but i love the 12.9

1:17:20and roan asks do you think apple would rather keep a this is a hypothetical and i just thought

1:17:27this is an interesting question do you think apple would rather keep a product secret or ship it on

1:17:32time they had to just if people at apple if apple was the the company right just imagine it as one

1:17:39thing and their way that they work do you think that they would rather keep a product secret or

1:17:44ship it on time i think secret personally what do you think i don't understand what this means

1:17:52just in general right like if apple had the choice company apple people apple had so they're either

1:17:57going to ship it late but it's a perfect secret or they or people know about it but it gets in

1:18:06advance and it ships on time um i i think ship it on what i think keep it secret keep it secret is

1:18:18the answer here this is this is like one of those things where it's like i i go to the town and

1:18:21and there's somebody who only tells a lie and there's somebody who only tells the truth and

1:18:24what question do you ask them i think there's a trick question that roan's you know because

1:18:29here's the thing so can you have a trick it is this is it they he's tricked us but i've outwitted

1:18:34him oh okay the first thing is never get involved in a land war in asia but the second answer

1:18:41is never go against a sicilian when death is on the line sorry that's the wrong movie

1:18:46if you keep it secret and then you ship it nobody knows it wasn't on time right but there are

1:18:57effects to apple right as a company you would imagine in something shipping light like

1:19:04right i i think i think apple would always i think apple always wants it to be a secret

1:19:11always always always and i do think and i know sometimes you're like well what if it leaks out

1:19:16it's like well then it's not a secret right but if it's a secret and then it just ships you don't

1:19:21even like the iphone was the iphone late when the original iphone shipped they probably wanted to

1:19:24ship that sooner but they shipped it when they were ready and it was a secret before that it's

1:19:30like well then it's on time it can't be late if nobody knows it exists until it ships right it

1:19:34can be i hate that i hate that so much it can't be it can't be late it can because they have a

1:19:40timeline right internally but the world doesn't know that as far as the world's concerned oh my

1:19:45god a new apple product just emerged from cupertino and we never heard of it before my mind is blown

1:19:51and somebody working in the back office is like oh boy we thought we were going to ship this two

1:19:54years ago but here it is and i i get that internally that that causes trouble the truth is we live in

1:20:01the other world right where apple generally is really really good at shipping things on their

1:20:04schedule and everybody knows about it in advance i think apple would probably prefer it the other way

1:20:09but um you know it's this is a funny mental exercise i also don't think the two are related

1:20:15at all right like apple's ability to ship things on a schedule is not really related to apple's

1:20:19ability to keep them a secret but i think deep in apple's bones they want to keep everything

1:20:24a secret i think so too i think the secrecy part is so important to them for so many reasons

1:20:31that would always be the preferred thing right like and you know i wonder if if the the shipping

1:20:38on time thing like thinking about stuff like air power and how that may have changed things

1:20:44right like that was such a strange little thing that happens true it's true well that's the that's

1:20:50the other part of it right is they announced air power and couldn't ship it like i think apple has

1:20:54really learned its lesson there in terms of the air tags are the example right that i think is

1:21:00the counter which is um that's a product that we've been hearing that they've been ready to

1:21:05ship for a long time and it's never been announced and that's the exact opposite of what happened with

1:21:14air power so that you know is air tags late it's not a secret but it's also never been never been

1:21:21announced and therefore when it ships is it gonna are we gonna say that it's shipped late i don't

1:21:27know i feel like i feel like it's late we're fast approaching like the time where there's gonna be

1:21:34a new phone right like that's coming up and like the u1 chip has never been used on the phone

1:21:40that we came out on because mike that was just for directional airdrop

1:21:44oh did you see me roll my eyes there across the podcast yeah okay everyone's favorite feature that

1:21:50works as intended do you ever does that ever i've never worked out what it's supposed to do

1:21:56that well it's supposed to like point at the person you're like when you're pointing your

1:22:00phone at the person who you're air dropping it pops that person up and says like yeah that that

1:22:05one that one is where you no it's it's pointless it's silly if you would like to submit a question

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1:22:48week's episode pingdom express ppn and linode and as always thank you for listening if you want to

1:22:53find jason's work online you can go to six colors.com and the incomparable.com where jason

1:22:58hosts many wonderful shows about pop culture related topics and also here at relay fm go to

1:23:03relay.fm slash shows jason and myself are on many podcasts here if you just listen to upgrade or

1:23:08maybe one other i'm sure that there'll be something there for you uh jason is at j snell on social

1:23:13media platforms what's your favorite social media platform jason um do i have to choose

1:23:22how can i choose from all of my children uh and i am i'm mike i m y k e and we'll be back next

1:23:29time until then say goodbye jason snow goodbye mike early