298: Copy Copy Copy, Paste Paste Paste Paste


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:08   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 298. Today's show is brought to you by Pingdom, Linode and ExpressVPN.

00:00:17   My name is Myke Hurley and I am joined by Jason Snell. Hello, Jason Snell.

00:00:21   Hello, Myke Hurley. How are you?

00:00:22   Fine and dandy, my friend. Fine and dandy. I have a #SnellTalk question for you.

00:00:26   It comes from Stuart. Stuart would like to know, "Jason,

00:00:29   do you like it when people point out typos in your articles or your posts?

00:00:34   Some like it so they can correct them, but others seem to not enjoy that feedback.

00:00:39   Where do you fall on this?"

00:00:40   Hmm. Well, I hate making mistakes, but it's inevitable,

00:00:45   especially when you're working more or less alone.

00:00:49   And generally, that's my workflow is I just write the story and post it.

00:00:53   And for Macworld, I write the story and then my editor at Macworld looks it over and posts it.

00:00:59   And so I hate it when mistakes get through, but they do.

00:01:03   It never fails. Sometimes I will send a story, a big story I'm working on to like five or six

00:01:09   people in advance. And then the moment it posts, people will say, "Oh, this is a typo." And I'll

00:01:13   be like, "I showed it to five people and nobody mentioned the typo." It can be very frustrating.

00:01:18   But I like corrections. I like them in the right context. I want them to be fixed. I want mistakes

00:01:23   to be fixed. That said, it is emotionally difficult when you work very hard on something.

00:01:30   And among the first pieces of feedback you get on it is not about the substance of the material,

00:01:35   but that you made a mistake, a minor mistake. Somewhere like a word was misspelled or was...

00:01:41   These days, it's the wrong word. It's not that a word was misspelled because I do actually run

00:01:46   a spell check. I'm a good speller, but spell checks can find mistyped words, but they don't find

00:01:51   words that were either mistyped as another word or corrected to another word. In the early days

00:01:56   of me writing on the iPad, there was a lot of autocorrect happening. It was really bad. That

00:02:02   was actually an impediment to me trusting the iPad as a writing tool for a while. And these days,

00:02:07   I have all of those things turned off on the hardware keyboard. Once I separated the hardware

00:02:11   keyboard setting from the regular keyboard setting, and I could go into hardware keyboard

00:02:14   and turn off all the autocorrection, I felt much better about writing on the iPad because

00:02:19   you'd have a word turned into a different word that was the wrong word after you had typed it,

00:02:25   and it wouldn't show up in a spell check because it was a word. It was just not the right word.

00:02:31   So I guess sometimes a spelling error is better than an autocorrection, right?

00:02:37   Absolutely. I mean, for now, I have that turned off, and that's why. It's because if I just

00:02:43   mistyped it, I want to see that I misspelled it. I don't want it turned into some best-guessed word

00:02:48   that is probably the wrong word, or at least there's a chance it's the wrong word. So anyway,

00:02:52   it is emotionally difficult. You put a lot of effort into writing something, and you want people

00:02:57   to read it and appreciate what it's about. And it's not just like, "Please give me praise." It's

00:03:02   also, "Please read the thing that I worked on." And when somebody says, "Oh, it's this word and

00:03:08   not this word," which is frustrating because, of course, I know it's that word and not that word.

00:03:12   Every now and then, I'll make a big mistake that's like, "Whoa, what was I thinking there,

00:03:16   and I have to fix it?" But mostly, it's just that word got mistyped as a different word,

00:03:22   and it went through. And it's just sad when it's like, "Oh, I worked so hard. This is the response

00:03:27   I get." It's just like, "You misspelled the word. Ha-ha." Also, sometimes I do get corrections from

00:03:32   people that include lots of opinions. Those mostly come via email. There's a lot of, "Well, I would

00:03:38   have phrased it this way." And that's a lot less helpful because I do want to fix mistakes, but I'm

00:03:41   not particularly interested in arguing over my choices that I make as a writer. Those I'm a lot

00:03:47   less interested in. So I kind of tune the people out who decide that what they really want to do

00:03:52   is debate my choices with me. - Right. You want to know if something's wrong,

00:03:57   not if somebody would have done it differently. - Yeah, exactly. I mean, I, believe it or not,

00:04:03   the things that we write in public are not accidents. Like, I make lots of conscious choices.

00:04:10   And so if somebody wants to debate with me, well, what... A lot of times with tech stuff, it's excess

00:04:15   specificity. Gruber and I talked about this the last time I was on the talk show. A lot of times,

00:04:20   it's somebody who has a very technical knowledge of something. And I will simplify something

00:04:25   because it's not worth getting into. And somebody will go, "Well, actually, it's technically this."

00:04:32   And my response, which I don't usually actually send back to them is, "Yes, I'm aware that that's

00:04:37   technically what it is, but it's beside the point of the article. And this is vague on purpose

00:04:44   because I don't want to get into it." But you get a lot of those too. And I just, it's fine. I just

00:04:49   kind of tune that out. What I always plugged when I was at IDG and we never, it never got prioritized,

00:04:54   it never got implemented was a report, a typo, basically, report an error in this story link

00:05:04   because we had comments on stories at IDG. And so people would put typo corrections at the bottom of

00:05:10   the story in a comment thread. And I hated that. And what I really wanted was a link to basically

00:05:17   a collection box. And then somebody would get those flags and fix the mistakes. Somebody on

00:05:24   staff, whoever it was, whether it was the writer or the editor or a copy editor or whatever,

00:05:28   almost like a bug tracker for errors. And I'm not sure that makes sense for Six Colors because it

00:05:32   really is just me and Dan and people can contact us on Twitter and email and whatever to get that

00:05:38   across to us. And we don't have comments, so it's not quite the same, although it still

00:05:43   shows up in my Twitter mentions. And then somebody mentioned Six Colors and I have a search for

00:05:48   @BleedSixColors. And then for the next week, when I look at that saved search, there's a typo

00:05:54   correction on that page. And it's so frustrating because I already fixed it, but it stays there and

00:05:59   I have to see it every time. It's very frustrating. So I thought about that because it would be really

00:06:07   nice. It would be really nice if somebody could even select text and then choose a thing that was

00:06:12   like, "Report this as a mistake." But I don't know what that would be. I don't know how I would

00:06:17   implement that. I thought about even just having a form on a page that's like, "Report an error

00:06:22   here." But I don't actually think it would drive that much traffic. I think people are just pretty

00:06:27   comfortable in whatever place they can find you of just shooting you a note saying that this word

00:06:33   is wrong. And this is a good question. I mean, nobody wants to make mistakes and it never fails

00:06:40   that as many times as you read over a story before you push it live, the moment that you push it live,

00:06:44   you personally will see mistakes in it. Six Colors posts are frequently edited like eight times in

00:06:53   the first two minutes that they're live because I will suddenly see all these things I didn't see

00:06:58   before. And that's just an effect of writing on the internet that as soon as it's live,

00:07:01   you see. And I have the preview template and all that, doesn't matter. As soon as you see it live,

00:07:06   it changes the way you view it. But then there's always gonna be something. That's just the nature

00:07:13   of it. And I used to work in a system where I had multiple copy edit reads of everything that I

00:07:19   wrote. And that was great because the typos didn't get through. And we don't really live in that

00:07:25   world anymore. I spot typos in the New York Times now. Like, yeah, we just don't live in that world

00:07:32   anymore. Alas. So I have actually considered hiring somebody I used to work with as a kind

00:07:39   of on-call copy editor to send the more important stuff that I am writing about to give it a pass

00:07:46   before I post it. And maybe that will happen at some point. But errors are still gonna get

00:07:50   through. And I appreciate people pointing them out, even though sometimes it's really annoying too.

00:07:55   (laughs)

00:07:57   It's more like annoying to yourself. You just annoyed at yourself that you did it.

00:08:01   But I have that if I ever have errors in shows. I'm annoyed that I didn't catch it.

00:08:07   That's always very frustrating to me. Luckily, oh gosh, why am I saying this? I haven't had an

00:08:15   error in a show for a long time. Well, we do say things here that people will correct us on.

00:08:23   And sometimes we're wrong. And edit errors is what I'm talking about.

00:08:26   Oh yeah. But sometimes we'll be wrong. Oh, I'm wrong all the time.

00:08:31   A lot of times we're not wrong. Not that it doesn't bother me, but I don't lose sleep over

00:08:36   that one. What really I hate is editing errors. And I'm pretty good at those now.

00:08:43   I know what you mean. I had one of those a few months ago where somebody's file,

00:08:49   it was literally like the last thing I did before I exported. I misclicked on something and slid it.

00:08:53   And so somebody's file was completely off for half the podcast. And I was like,

00:08:58   oh no, I hate those. That's like the worst.

00:09:00   And you can't rescind a podcast. You're dealing with those errors for a long time because

00:09:05   everybody's podcast player grabs it immediately and sits there. And then a week later they play

00:09:09   it and go, oh, did you know that this is wrong? It's like, yes, I fixed it in the first 10 minutes,

00:09:13   just deleted, downloaded again. It's fine. But you can't, like for their perspective,

00:09:18   they're reporting a mistake. Cause I can't tell Overcast, download this file again. I wish I could,

00:09:26   but I can't do that. So yeah. Yeah. Nobody likes making mistakes and you want to be right.

00:09:34   And one of the things I've learned as a writer is doing a podcast is just a different thing because

00:09:43   speaking extemporaneously on technical subjects is hard. And we will often, the ones that get us

00:09:54   where people write in are always a tangent that we take. That we haven't prepared for. And so

00:10:01   we're searching our own fallible memories for what we think it was. And it'll always be like,

00:10:06   when, when was that product released? 2012? And somebody would be like, well, actually it was 2011.

00:10:13   And we'd be like, okay, we didn't even look it up. We just were trying to guess it from memory,

00:10:18   but that happens. And that's the different standard that a podcast has, I think, than

00:10:22   something written where you can, you know, you can look it up before you press the post button.

00:10:28   Thank you so much to Stuart for that wonderful Snell Talk question. If you would like to submit

00:10:32   a question for the show, just send out a tweet with the hashtag Snell Talk, and it may be included

00:10:36   for a future episode. Jason, I have a couple of items of follow-up that I would like to bring to

00:10:41   the table today. The first is I want to just talk about the Relay FM members Discord again. This is

00:10:46   something we spoke about last week. This is a new perk for Relay FM members. We have a closed and

00:10:53   private to Relay FM members only Discord server now. It's rocking and rolling over there. It's

00:10:58   been a wonderful week and a bit getting this all set up and we're doing more and more to it. And

00:11:03   the reason we're talking about it again is we have two interesting pieces of functionality added to

00:11:09   the Discord server. One is you can now listen to live stream shows and chat with the show bot

00:11:17   all within Discord. So we're actually, as me and Jason are speaking right now, we're doing our

00:11:23   first live streamed episode. So currently, you can listen in the Relay FM app, you can listen

00:11:28   on the website and you can talk in IRC. That's been around forever. It's still sticking around.

00:11:32   But we now also have the live stream of all shows that are live streamed pumped into the Discord. So

00:11:39   the audio is there and we have a live chat going on there all at the same time. It's amazing. This

00:11:45   means that you can easily listen in the Discord app on basically any platform. It's been possible

00:11:52   to listen on the web, but it's not as easy. This is way easier on iOS. It's way easier on Android,

00:11:56   for example, without needing a bunch of applications. So if you're a Relay FM member

00:12:01   and you listen to live shows, in my opinion, this is now the best way to do that. If you do enjoy

00:12:06   listening to live shows, this is a great reason to become a Relay FM member. If you do want to be

00:12:11   a Relay FM member and support upgrade, then you can just tap on the first link in your show notes

00:12:16   and it will go straight to the page to give us some money and you get a ton of wonderful benefits

00:12:21   one of them now being the Relay FM members Discord, which also has a really, I'm really

00:12:28   pleased that we were able to get this hyper running with our mods. They were a great team

00:12:31   of people building these bots for us. We do ask upgrade at the end of every show, right? And we've

00:12:36   always collected these questions over Twitter with the hashtag #askupgrade. Now also, if any message

00:12:44   in any channel in the Relay FM members Discord, if you add question mark ask upgrade, it will be

00:12:50   added to the same sheet as the Twitter questions. So now we will be pulling questions from Twitter

00:12:56   and the Relay FM members Discord. So you use the question mark ask upgrade and you can ask us a

00:13:01   question, which is wonderful. That means that if you don't want to be on Twitter or you quit

00:13:05   Twitter or something and you do want to ask us a question and been frustrated that you're not able

00:13:09   to do that, you can now, if you're a Relay FM member, you can just do it in Discord and we'll

00:13:14   get it that way. There's a couple other things. Questions can be longer and something that I

00:13:19   thought was fun. It's like if there's a conversation happening and they're like,

00:13:22   "I don't know about this." Well, you can just ask the question again, put question mark ask upgrade,

00:13:26   and then we might answer it on the show. So I think it's super cool. Next week, we're doing

00:13:31   a mic at the movies. We got some great feedback about the Star Trek Whale movie because it was a

00:13:38   fun and weird movie to do. So we're going to talk about a movie that we've both seen. Although I've

00:13:45   actually, funnily enough, seen this movie more than Jason. And we picked this movie because it is,

00:13:51   in my opinion, the lowest stakes movie I've ever seen in all of the best ways. It's Ferris Bueller's

00:13:58   Day Off from 1986. It's available, I think it's on Netflix. I know at least it is in the UK. So

00:14:06   I will be watching it on Netflix over the next couple of days. But yeah, on the next episode,

00:14:12   we're going to be doing a mic at the movies, and I guess Jason at the movies as well,

00:14:15   about Ferris Bueller's Day Off, which is just like the best movie.

00:14:19   Yeah, it is on Netflix in the US as well.

00:14:22   Wonderful.

00:14:23   Netflix subscribers, go watch Ferris Bueller, 1986. Get a nice shot of happy silliness from the '80s.

00:14:30   And we'll talk about it next week. I've seen it one time.

00:14:34   Oh, I love this movie. So spoilers, I love this movie.

00:14:37   I've seen it one time. That time was within the last five years. So I never saw it in the '80s.

00:14:42   Or the '90s. Or the 2000s. But it's good. So we'll talk about it.

00:14:46   Apple has acquired the VR company NextVR. So we spoke about this when it was rumored.

00:14:51   But now it is official. Apple have confirmed it.

00:14:54   NextVR buys other companies from time to time, as they always say. Yep.

00:14:59   Yeah, it's like, "Oh, we do it all the time." It's like, "Okay, sure you do." But you don't

00:15:03   always tell us though, do you? NextVR, with a company that broadcasts sport and live events

00:15:08   in virtual reality, NextVR has now shut down. I was thinking, I wonder if, like, I mean,

00:15:16   this is obviously the best time for them to be bought because there's nothing for them to

00:15:20   broadcast right now, which I thought was interesting. Like, I believe that this deal

00:15:26   was occurring for a while. And like, for them, this is like perfect time. Because I can't imagine

00:15:33   how they, I mean, I don't know what their business is like. But I cannot imagine how they would have

00:15:37   gotten through the next 18 months unless they had very favorable contracts, right? Because there are

00:15:45   no sporting events for them to shoot. But anyway, that may have changed. I don't, we don't know.

00:15:50   I can't predict the future. But anyway, the company has now shut down. They, I looked into

00:15:56   this, they hold a ton of patents. Like this was something that we were talking about before. Like,

00:16:00   oh, maybe Apple also wants their intellectual property as well as their technology. And I just

00:16:07   did some cursory googling. And Jason, they have so many patents about VR. Like, it's wild how many

00:16:12   they have. So I believe at this point that this was a, like a one, two punch type deal. Like, they

00:16:19   have, they now own a bunch of patents for VR, which I'm sure could be extended to AR and anything

00:16:24   you wear on your face to project images. And now they also have a team of people that know how to

00:16:29   build software that ties into hardware. Because NextVR didn't have their own hardware of any kind.

00:16:34   They would tie into Oculus, HTC, Vive, that kind of stuff. So this is obviously an area of interest

00:16:41   for Apple, either AR or VR, right? Because I think there's a lot of crossover in the technologies

00:16:47   here. And it's just depending on what element you're working on. I don't think that this means

00:16:54   that Apple necessarily wants to broadcast VR live events. This could be something for TV Plus, but

00:17:01   for me personally, that feels like the least likely outcome of why they did this, right? Which was to

00:17:06   to buy the company that does this thing because they want to do this thing. I think they wanted

00:17:10   to buy this company because they were doing interesting things. Could be wrong, but that

00:17:15   it doesn't really, I just don't believe that Apple was looking to broadcast NBA and WWE in VR.

00:17:22   I don't think that's the reason to motivate this, right? It's like, aha, we finally got this final

00:17:25   piece of the puzzle. But if, as we've discussed on Upstream before, that Apple is doing, at least

00:17:34   considering live sports, that's a possibility. And we know that Amazon is also experimenting with

00:17:42   this. Netflix doesn't seem interested in live events and that's fine. It's not really part of

00:17:46   their brand, but Apple is. And Apple's working on this AR/VR thing. Having this tech so that, one,

00:17:55   they could potentially use it if they do live sports in the future. And two, don't forget that

00:18:01   they also have their Apple TV channels and the Apple TV as a concept itself. And so if they're

00:18:07   hedging against AR and VR video viewing being a thing in the future, having the ability to do a

00:18:15   good job with sports so that they can have a traditional feed that's just on your TV,

00:18:20   but they can also have an AR feed or a VR feed, that's bonus. But yeah, I think it's not probably

00:18:26   the primary use. I wanted to mention, and I mentioned this on Twitter the other day too,

00:18:30   it's funny where my two worlds intersect. A writer named Sarah Pinsker wrote a novel that was

00:18:35   nominated for the Nebula Award this year for best science fiction and fantasy novel called A Song

00:18:40   for a New Day. And it is a little, it's a good book, but it's a little too real because it's

00:18:46   about the after effects of a global pandemic, changing how people work in public spaces. Yeah,

00:18:52   bad timing for Sarah Pinsker to have this book come out right before this. But one of the main

00:18:58   characters in it is a musician and another main character works for this company that's kind of

00:19:03   like a giant live performance VR company. And basically they find musicians and they all

00:19:11   perform in VR because there aren't live performances in the real world anymore because there are no

00:19:16   crowds because of the pandemic. And the novel is sort of arguing about the greatness of live music

00:19:24   and why you, you know, people will go back to live music because it's such a great experience

00:19:29   and it can't be replicated. And there was a post about that from, I think Dave Grohl from

00:19:35   Foo Fighters last week posted about that. So the big company in there, which is called like

00:19:42   Stage Hollow Live or something like that. When this acquisition happened, I was talking to Dan

00:19:47   Morin about this and we're both like, "It's Stage Hollow Live, isn't it?" I mean, it's funny to see

00:19:53   all of these things happening in the real world kind of echoed in some recent sci-fi that we read.

00:19:59   - Last night, we were going through Disney movies right now because Disney+ is amazing.

00:20:04   And we're like, "Oh, I want to watch Tangled," which is one of my favorite Disney animation

00:20:10   movies. It's hilarious. But like you didn't realize, "Oh, it's about being locked away,

00:20:15   can't leave." I was like, "Oh man, I wasn't expecting this. Tangled."

00:20:18   - It's a quarantine movie.

00:20:19   - Yep. So it comes from everywhere. Logic Pro, is it X or X?

00:20:25   - X.

00:20:25   - X. Logic Pro X gets a significant update. You may remember, we spoke about this a few weeks ago,

00:20:31   that there was imagery on an Apple education page of what looked like live loops in Logic,

00:20:37   live loops from GarageBand and iOS. That got added. It's one of the big features that got

00:20:43   added to a new update to Logic Pro X. There's a lot of new cool tools in here for musicians,

00:20:49   and that's the focus of the release, of course, because Logic is a music app.

00:20:54   But the Logic team do publish vast release notes, which is wonderful. And they detail a ton of

00:21:01   performance improvements for all Logic users. So I use Logic, Jason uses Logic, and there are

00:21:07   some fixes in there that will make stuff easier for us as podcast producers, which is great.

00:21:11   - Yeah. I mean, most of the features are music features because it's a music app. I had a back

00:21:15   and forth with somebody on Twitter about this, and it's like, their thesis was, "Wow, this is

00:21:20   a really, you know, kind of a black eye for podcasting that Apple doesn't really care about

00:21:23   it, and all the Logic features are music." But Logic's a music app. It's a music production app.

00:21:28   It's always been, podcasters use a tiny, tiny, tiny fraction of the features. I don't expect them

00:21:34   to cater to me at all. I expect to live in a little, you know, little space between two

00:21:40   rocks, like a little crack. I crawl in there and use Logic and like, just hope that they don't

00:21:46   squash me because I'm not supposed to be there. I'm, you know, and that's true for podcasters.

00:21:52   It's not a spoken word thing. It's not, in fact, the bug that they fixed, one of my big complaints

00:21:57   involves large projects with lots and lots and lots of individual items. And when I'm editing

00:22:04   a four-hour D&D session and I use the silence removal feature to pull silence out, you end up

00:22:12   with thousands of little tiny blobs of audio across four hours of a Logic project. And the fact is,

00:22:18   that is so far out of what you would get in your usual music project in Logic. And I suspect that

00:22:26   I am one of the first people, one of the very few people, to discover a huge slowdown when you

00:22:33   do that. Like, you click on an item, you select a bunch of items, like thousands of items, and you

00:22:37   want to move them a little bit as a part of your podcast edit. And it's really slow. Even on a very

00:22:43   fast Mac, it's incredibly slow. And I mentioned this to somebody on the Pro Apps team, the Pro

00:22:49   Workflows team, actually. And I don't know if that had any effect or not, but I sent a sample project

00:22:55   in. This was like a year ago, but that bug got fixed. It's in the release notes. It's like,

00:23:01   it's much better. And I like that because that's not a feature that people who are making songs in

00:23:09   Logic are going to have to deal with. Now, maybe there are some other extenuating circumstances,

00:23:13   but I kind of feel like that was a good example of them saying, "Oh, yeah, it shouldn't do that.

00:23:18   Why are they, why are people doing it this way? Oh, it's podcasters. All right. Okay, we'll fix

00:23:22   that." And they did. So I'm happy to continue using Logic. I don't use it as much as I used to,

00:23:28   because I am editing so much more on Fairite on the iPad now, but I do use Logic many times a week.

00:23:34   And I'm glad that this update has some nice things in it for us, but it's not a tool for us. And most

00:23:41   of the nice things that are in this update are for the musicians that it should be for.

00:23:45   All right, let's take our first break and thank our friends over at Linode for their support of

00:23:52   this show. Whether you're working on a personal project or managing your enterprise's

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00:24:59   and the promo code UPGRADE2020 for that $20 credit. Thanks to Linode for their support

00:25:04   of this show and all of Relay FM. All right, Jason, let's do some upstream headlines.

00:25:11   In upstream, we take a cursory look at some of the interesting news that is occurring in the

00:25:18   streaming media landscape, something that I think we're both probably very excited about. Out of the

00:25:22   blue, Hamilton is coming to Disney+. This was a movie that was originally slated for a theatrical

00:25:29   release in October 2021, and it's now coming on July 3rd on Disney+. Yeah, I saw a couple of

00:25:36   news stories that said they brought it forward from October, and it's like, no, it was going to

00:25:40   be released in October 2021 in theaters. And they've decided, one of the things that's

00:25:46   happening here is a lot of movies are getting pushed back because nobody really knows when

00:25:50   those, when theaters are going to be up and running at full strength. And this is something

00:25:56   that they already have in hand because it's not a, it's not like a dramatization, like a movie,

00:26:01   it's not a movie version of Hamilton. It is a filmed version of the original Broadway cast.

00:26:08   They took a couple of days and shot it. So it's, you know, it's shot like a movie and there are

00:26:11   closeups and stuff like that, but it's, it's on stage at the theater and on Broadway with the

00:26:18   original cast. And they've had it in the vault. There have been little clips that have come out

00:26:21   here and there, 60 Minutes, the story about Hamilton that had some clips in it. A few things

00:26:25   have leaked out. It looks great, right? Like they, it is the definitive document. Hamilton was so

00:26:29   successful that they were able to spend the money upfront, take a couple of days and shoot the

00:26:35   original Broadway cast and document them. I wish every great musical and every great Broadway show

00:26:42   of all time got this treatment because it is a way to document this thing that is otherwise

00:26:46   completely ephemeral. And it'll be higher quality than that version that somebody shot from their

00:26:53   smartphone from the balcony that went around the internet, right? But it's in a can, it's done.

00:26:58   And it was just waiting for a good time that Disney thought it would be like a good time for

00:27:02   it to come out. And also they didn't want to clash with all the productions that were there

00:27:06   that were, that were running in various cities, but no productions are running.

00:27:09   And the schedule is getting backed up. And I think it's, I think it's great as somebody who likes

00:27:15   Hamilton, but also I think it's a fascinating thing where Disney for this one was like, you know,

00:27:19   we've got it in hand. It's not going to clash with the theaters because there aren't any,

00:27:22   let's just put it on Disney plus and they're doing it July 3rd. It's the 4th of July

00:27:27   Independence Day in America for Hamilton. Super appropriate time to do it. So I'm very excited.

00:27:34   We'll all get to see this thing that we've all known existed for, right? For a few years now,

00:27:40   we've known that this thing existed and it's like, are they ever going to show it? And they finally

00:27:43   announced that it was going to come to theaters, but it was going to be a year and a half until

00:27:46   we saw it. And guess what? It's going to be less than two months now, Myke.

00:27:50   - I am so excited for this. I'm going to watch it like a billion times. I just can't wait. Like,

00:27:56   I've really, I can't wait for it. I'm so excited. Like I have, I obviously massive fan of Hamilton.

00:28:04   I think I've seen it three times now in London and I've listened to the album like a million times

00:28:11   and I've always wanted to see, actually see the original cast, like what I know the most.

00:28:18   - We've heard them. We've heard them.

00:28:19   - Which is the recording. And yeah, so I'm so excited to see this. Like it really,

00:28:24   I'm so pleased. I'm so pleased they're doing this. It makes so much sense. Like why, you know,

00:28:28   it was always a thing of like, why was it always going to come out in October, 2021 anyway? It was

00:28:32   like such a far away time for what seemed like a movie that was already done in, you know, when

00:28:40   Disney originally announced it, they kind of seemed to hint that they were going to be adding more to

00:28:44   it than the original stage recording, but I'm not sure if that's the case or maybe they changed

00:28:49   plans and they're just like, no, let's just release what we have.

00:28:52   - Maybe they can't do it. I don't know where they got like take a,

00:28:55   I was wondering if they were going to take like a cut song and have the original cast sing it and

00:29:01   put it over the end credits or something like that. Right. And who knows, maybe they will,

00:29:04   or maybe they didn't get time to do it and they're just going to go with what they've got.

00:29:07   A little tangent from this is that I've been watching the Disney Plus documentary series

00:29:15   about the Mandalorian, which there are three episodes I think out now and it's fun. It's like,

00:29:19   it's kind of like a DVD extra basically, but it's fun. It's Jon Favreau sitting around a table like

00:29:25   he does. He'd had a whole TV show where he did that with the actors and directors and producers

00:29:31   of the Mandalorian. And it's really a fascinating, that was a fascinating production. And it's fun to

00:29:37   see them talk about it. But I was struck by the fact that, you know, Disney Plus is a good example

00:29:42   of a service that didn't have a big pipeline of originals to begin with. And you have nothing being

00:29:50   shot right now. So Hamilton moving forward and going on Disney Plus is a great example

00:29:57   of getting more value in that service where they can. The Mandalorian season two was shot. And in

00:30:03   fact, there have been a lot of things that have leaked out about people who've been cast in it.

00:30:08   So this brings me to my tangent, which is post-production in Virusland,

00:30:14   that a lot of the shows, see, if a show can't be shot, there was one show, The Blacklist,

00:30:20   that just finished its season on NBC. And they shut down during the filming of their final episode

00:30:25   of the season. So they computer animated the scenes they didn't shot. Doctor Who fans will

00:30:31   recognize this as what happened with Shada, the Douglas Adams written story where they did many

00:30:37   years later animate the scenes that weren't shot so they could release it. It's very strange. But

00:30:43   The Blacklist did it because I guess they just wanted to do it. It's very, very, very strange.

00:30:47   Okay, so like this isn't necessarily a bad idea, but they did it on an incredibly low budget,

00:30:54   because apparently the show would run out of money. And it shows it's bad.

00:30:59   It's super weird and stylized and, you know, but I get what they were trying. I kept watching it

00:31:06   thinking you should probably, when you're able to shoot again, you should probably shoot all these

00:31:12   scenes and replace them and never have this be seen again, right? Like you shouldn't, don't leave

00:31:16   this out there as a historic document. Just erase all memory of it. - This comes out on DVD or

00:31:20   streaming, like just replace it. - Just replace it. - Yeah. - So, but this is, I did a link on

00:31:27   Six Colors about this. Like there's a lot of this. So Mandalorian, I believe, is still going to come

00:31:32   out this year because they shot all of season two. So they have to do post-production. And we've seen

00:31:37   a lot of shots of like people doing work from their houses. You know, ILM is doing special

00:31:45   effects where everybody's in their houses. There was a shot of one of the editors on Star Trek

00:31:51   Discovery season three, which has also completed all of its photography. And they were doing,

00:31:56   you know, there was a great shot a while ago of the, like an old trashcan Mac Pro and some monitors

00:32:02   next, you know, in somebody's house with like the staircase and some pictures on the walls. And

00:32:06   they're just, they're a video editor and they're doing it from home now. And the story I linked to

00:32:11   on Six Colors last week was from Jeff Russo, who is the composer of Star Trek Discovery.

00:32:16   And initially when this all started, he was like, well, I'm not going to be able to do the score

00:32:21   until we come back. But he's realized that that's going to be a while until he can get a whole

00:32:27   orchestra together to play. So they are doing the music for that. And I think he did it for Umbrella

00:32:33   Academy this way too, which is they are recording individual people. They're sending them gear and

00:32:39   telling them how to set it up. Individual players are recording their parts. And then they're using

00:32:44   their, you know, using logic or another digital audio workstation to assemble all the individual

00:32:50   parts together to make it sound like they're playing as an ensemble. But it's entirely individual

00:32:57   recordings from people's houses playing along with the music, which is how they do all these other

00:33:02   group performances, including the Hamilton one that was on John Krasinski's Some Good News show

00:33:08   a few weeks ago. Like that's how you do it is everybody's recording to a sync track and then you

00:33:13   put it all together and you've got something that sounds really good, even though they weren't

00:33:17   together and none of them heard the whole thing when they were recording it. But I'm fascinated

00:33:21   that essentially you're doing an ensemble or a like a small orchestra doing a soundtrack to a TV

00:33:28   show and that's all happening remotely too. So we're going to see some really interesting stuff

00:33:32   in the next few months of things as we finish the stuff that's in the can before the virus hit

00:33:38   and start seeing the stuff that was shot before the virus hit but had to be post-production had

00:33:43   to happen after the fact. And it's kind of fascinating but it is cool that we have the

00:33:46   technology to do all this stuff. Apple have signed a first look TV deal with Ridley Scott's production

00:33:52   company, Scott Free. Scott Free produced a bunch of movies but their TV stuff includes The Good Wife

00:33:58   and The Man in the High Castle as like some of their most successful programs. So this is just

00:34:04   a TV only deal but Apple's going to get first look at any projects coming from Scott Free.

00:34:10   So continuing to sign on big creators which is you know interesting for them. We'll see if the

00:34:16   content exists. Mythic Quest. So this is the video game company TV show that I still haven't seen but

00:34:24   want to see. It's high on my list of things. I've seen one episode and it was funny and I need to

00:34:28   see more. So they're going to be airing a special episode on May 22nd I think it is. They're doing

00:34:35   like a quarantine episode. So it's like how a game company would be dealing with stay at home orders

00:34:44   and working over Zoom. So they're just it's all shot on iPhone. I think it was one of those things

00:34:49   that are like hey we could just do this. So they're doing it. It was a bonus. We're an Apple TV plus

00:34:54   we can get iPhones. Yeah but I think it's one of those things where it's like this makes sense of

00:34:59   in the context of the show which for many shows it won't no matter how much they try but this

00:35:03   makes sense within the context of the show. Could be and I'm sure will be funny in its own way

00:35:09   and is also a PR piece for Apple because look at how good this looks shot on iPhones.

00:35:15   So you know I think it's a clever idea. It's like a one-off but that's something that's going to be

00:35:20   coming out on May 22nd. I want to talk about Apple released a letter yesterday. A kind of a how they're

00:35:27   reopening their stores. So I want to give the rundown of what Apple's going to be doing. This

00:35:32   came from Deidre O'Brien, Apple's people head. They currently have 100 Apple stores opened around the

00:35:38   world and that's changing a lot now. They're opening more. They're opening more in the US

00:35:42   this week. They're opening in Italy this week as well I believe. In the stores that are opening and

00:35:47   in stores that will open these are the measures that Apple are going to take. They're going to be

00:35:51   limiting occupancy to enable social distancing so it'll be keeping people outside. Queues right.

00:35:56   It's going to look like iPhone day every day. They're going to be renewing their focus on

00:36:01   one-on-one service at the Genius Bar. Now here's a question. I feel like I haven't heard the phrase

00:36:06   Genius Bar in a while. Am I wrong? Yeah. Yeah it has not been an emphasized brand name but yeah.

00:36:12   Genius Bar is back baby. So that's the thing. They're going to be requiring face coverings for

00:36:19   anybody going into an Apple store. If you don't have one Apple will be giving you one. Temperature

00:36:24   checks will be required before entry of any stores and they may also ask you health questions. They're

00:36:29   going to have like posters and stuff for symptoms. They may ask you symptoms and they're going to be

00:36:34   doing cleaning, wiping down of devices and surfaces throughout the day. So they're going to be doing

00:36:44   curbside pickup and drop off for this is a thing that Apple haven't done before but it's going to

00:36:49   be an option so you can order online and they'll bring it out to the curb or they'll come and take

00:36:54   something from you if you're bringing it in for repair. Yeah this is going to be this is very

00:37:00   different and a lot of people are going to be very uncomfortable with it. I think at Apple and

00:37:07   outside of Apple it's super strange right to imagine going to a retail store and they're saying

00:37:14   put this over your face and we're going to take your temperature. Yeah like this is going to

00:37:18   redefine redefine what the Apple store does but I think a part of that too is that they we live in

00:37:24   a world where a lot of stuff is going to be redefined at least temporarily and so you know

00:37:28   I had this experience last week I talked about it where my wife's phone you know the battery swelled

00:37:33   and we needed to replace it and in the old days I would have just taken it to the Apple store on

00:37:37   Monday and replaced it and instead I had to wait two days for the box to come and then put it in

00:37:43   the box and then mail it back to them and then they'll get it and then they'll mail one back to

00:37:46   us and that's how it's going to work and they've always offered that but like the convenience of

00:37:50   Apple retail stores is you could just drive one exit up the freeway and do this so that stuff

00:37:55   coming back kind of makes sense to me if you're if you need to buy something to go there and and

00:38:00   I mean you can get it online and they're going to push people there but you could always do in-store

00:38:06   pickup not just kind of wander in but and I think there'll be more of that right a lot of retail

00:38:11   stores when they come back are coming back in a sort of curbside service I'm going to place my order

00:38:16   and then I'm going to go and say I have an order ready to be picked up and they'll bring it out

00:38:20   and that's it right like you're not going to linger in the store my understanding is that the capacity

00:38:24   of stores is way down to like including the employees they're really reducing how many

00:38:28   employees are going to be in so the service is going to be slower it's not just that you're

00:38:32   going to wait in line because there are fewer people in the store but service will also be

00:38:35   slower potentially here but you know this is this is where we are oh they want they're gonna my

00:38:42   understanding is they're not going to do like in-store device setup like they used to do they

00:38:46   like to like take it out of the box and do all that it's too much time right with a person takes

00:38:50   too much time yeah and and of course you're trying to minimize the amount of time anybody's spending

00:38:54   inside an enclosed space anyway so yeah I would imagine that unless you demand to have help setting

00:39:02   up your iPhone that they're just going to give you the phone in a little bag and say goodbye

00:39:05   and and it'll be like that for a while but if you've got a broken piece of equipment and you

00:39:10   haven't been able to take it to an Apple store to get it fixed or something like that at least

00:39:14   that kind of stuff is is hopefully going to come back and but this is an interim state right it's

00:39:21   it's not the Apple store we know it's like a different kind of Apple retail because I mean

00:39:27   I assume something that going to de-emphasize which seems like people shouldn't be doing this

00:39:32   anyway but Apple should also limit it it's like you shouldn't be going in there to browse

00:39:35   yeah like browsing in retail stores needs to stop for now right like that just seems logical to me

00:39:43   because why like why you know like go to the Apple store if you have something to do like you have to

00:39:50   do your computer is broken and you got to work go to the Apple store get it fixed but like if you

00:39:55   want to buy a product just buy it online right like I don't and if you need it today you can

00:40:01   probably buy it for in-store pickup yeah today and then you go there and wait in the line and they

00:40:06   hand it to you when you leave but yeah you're flipping through like watch bands and stuff yes

00:40:11   it's probably not not the best use that that said if you are seriously considering buying a new

00:40:18   laptop and you can't decide between the 13-inch MacBook Pro and the retina MacBook Air and you

00:40:23   want to see them I you know I think you're going to be able to go into the store with a mask on

00:40:29   and look at them and touch them but I see that as different to browsing it's true it's not it's

00:40:34   it's more tactical right yes and everything you touch with your filthy filthy fingers will be

00:40:38   immediately sanitized by an Apple employee but you'll you'll get the opportunity to do that but

00:40:42   yeah it's a different world yeah it's like if you do need to buy a laptop or you need to buy a phone

00:40:46   right you have to and you don't know what you want well that Apple store is there to help you go in

00:40:51   and take a look at it but you shouldn't just be popping to the Apple store like you maybe would

00:40:57   have before to take a look at the new Apple watch band colors like don't you don't do that just don't

00:41:03   just don't buy the band or buy it online and return it if you don't like it like don't go to the store

00:41:09   because like going to an Apple store is gonna suck right like you have to go and stand in a line and

00:41:15   you'll be there for a long time then someone's gonna take your temperature which is just freaking

00:41:20   weird right like it's just weird to have to do that like I'm so pleased they are doing it one

00:41:26   of those little laser scanner thingies where it'd be like but it's just like a very strange thing to

00:41:32   to submit yourself to right like having your temperature taken I want to make it very clear

00:41:37   I'm very pleased they're doing it they should be doing it stores should do this stuff right to

00:41:42   protect their employees but it's a very peculiar thing to go and do so don't just do it for fun

00:41:49   right like very specific reasons that you should be going to these places anywhere now really

00:41:56   um no no browsing just don't go browse I feel so bad for the Apple store employees like I just

00:42:03   I feel so bad for them you know like it just seems like not a great situation to have to be in so

00:42:10   especially when they're working for a company where like everybody else has been told to stay

00:42:15   at home but if you're in retail you've now got to go back to public and there's just something

00:42:23   that's uncomfortable about that right and it's a shame so I don't know if it makes any difference

00:42:29   but I'll just say it like if you're listening to the show just don't go to the Apple store like

00:42:33   unless you have to unless you have to really think about that like really do you have to do you have

00:42:40   to in the sense of like you might jeopardize your own health have to this is the larger story about

00:42:46   like reopening businesses after everything just completely shut down which is the watchword here

00:42:54   still needs to be minimize your chances of exposure right that's the fundamental is just

00:43:00   the more times you go outside the house the more times you get close to other people the more times

00:43:06   especially you are in enclosed spaces with other people around the more chance you have

00:43:12   of potentially spreading or getting this disease so even though things are open now

00:43:18   follow those rules right like do I need to do this and like just like we've been doing that

00:43:27   for shopping right we used to go um Lauren always talks about how she she would go like you go to

00:43:33   Trader Joe's you go to Whole Foods you go to Safeway you go to Costco you get different things

00:43:36   different places and all that the best of all the things you want and now it's like we go to Safeway

00:43:42   once a week and maybe if we're out of something in particular during the week we will do a quick

00:43:48   thing to Whole Foods but it's one of us and it's in and out and that's just about minimizing your

00:43:54   chances of exposure and that goes for the Apple store too if you need to go go once it's open

00:43:59   great but um so much stuff can be done without going to the physical store or if you do need to

00:44:06   go get something like I said same day or next day you can do an online order and they'll bring it

00:44:12   out to you I think so that's the way to do it. All right let's take a break this episode is brought

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00:45:49   show and all of relay FM Taiwan Semiconductor are opening a fabrication factory based in Arizona

00:45:59   Taiwan Semiconductor will begin construction on this new chip factory in 2021 with the first chips

00:46:05   likely to be shipping from 2024 TSMC are the manufacturer of Apple's A series processors

00:46:13   this is very interesting this is very interesting it is I if you're a member of Stratechery Ben

00:46:20   Thompson site I highly recommend a piece that he wrote last week about Taiwan and tech's geopolitical

00:46:26   realities Ben Thompson lives in Taiwan so he has a very good perspective on this and TSMC these the

00:46:34   chip makers they're basically the leader in chip manufacturing now having surpassed Intel but the

00:46:39   difference is that they are a chip maker for hire and Intel insists on making their own stuff and

00:46:46   this is fascinating because Intel has made chips in America for a long time but Ben Thompson's point

00:46:51   is this is a real strategic opportunity to not only broaden the places that make these chips by having

00:47:00   them also make them in the US and not just in Taiwan it potentially has a huge issue for the

00:47:06   international balance of power which is kind of fascinating because Taiwan is the most disputed

00:47:13   place on the planet in terms of China and the US to superpowers and if you think about vulnerabilities

00:47:23   having all of your chips made in Taiwan is potentially one also talking about manufacturing

00:47:29   more things in the US you know Intel has had the opportunity to do chip making for hire for a long

00:47:35   time and always resisted and TSMC building a plant in Arizona it's just really interesting whether

00:47:41   Apple uses it or not although it wouldn't surprise me if Apple is interested in this as part of their

00:47:47   kind of diversification of their of their supply chain maybe they can use that space that that

00:47:52   the glass manufacturer that went out of business was going to use in Arizona I think that this

00:47:59   makes a lot of sense politically for Apple right like it allows them as they move even further

00:48:07   again like one of the reasons I included this in the show today is because it comes back to arm

00:48:11   again right if Apple are going to move to designing their own processes for all of their products

00:48:18   TSMC will be working with them more and more right like because then potentially TSMC will be making

00:48:27   all of the chips that go into Apple's Macs yeah it's all that Intel business moves over to TSMC

00:48:32   so this will allow them to say again right more and more of our products are being made in America

00:48:40   or parts are being made in America plus there are just like logistical benefits right flying

00:48:46   people to Arizona or just setting up a shop in Arizona rather than flying people to Taiwan

00:48:53   right like that has got to be a massive benefit logistically for Apple as well ultimately the

00:49:00   chips need to go from Arizona maybe to somewhere else or this is like another piece of allowing

00:49:08   for more products to be assembled in America right which is again for many reasons something Apple

00:49:16   might want to do there is a diversification angle to this right just in general right like

00:49:21   and I would imagine companies all over the world now no matter where your stuff is made are

00:49:26   thinking about can we diversify right like this is our points of failure right because you can

00:49:34   imagine right as coronavirus hit you could have put more work into the Arizona factory for three

00:49:40   months until the Taiwan factories or the China factories are back online and you can move the

00:49:46   production back there as the Arizona factory shuts down right like that would have been a great

00:49:51   benefit to have these multiple plants available to you so this is like another I mean this is

00:49:58   the reason that TSMC are doing this I'm sure they've gotten a ton of great breaks right and

00:50:05   you don't you don't build a factory you don't commit to building a factory unless you've got

00:50:10   yeah tax breaks and probably customers who will pay you to build the factory to you know with

00:50:17   with their contracts so it's entirely possible and I don't know the the facts that this is you know

00:50:23   Arizona is giving them a break and Apple is saying they're in and other clients are saying they're

00:50:29   in and they're like well yeah okay let's do it let's yeah let's build this because building a

00:50:32   new chip factory is not cheap but there are you know microprocessor this is microprocessors have

00:50:38   been made in the U.S. for a long time this isn't one of those things where it's like well this is

00:50:42   weird this is a whole new class of thing that's being made in the U.S. this is a thing that's been

00:50:46   made you know Intel especially but IBM and others and yeah it's like again I'm struck by Ben Thompson's

00:50:54   read on this which is this is this is kind of TSMC eating out eating Intel's lunch a little bit

00:51:00   where Intel had the opportunity to to take on this kind of work and build these factories or use their

00:51:07   existing factories and TSMC has excelled in saying we'll build whatever you want and now they're going

00:51:13   to be building it on Intel's home turf and that's really interesting. It was a report from Digiday

00:51:18   about from a bunch of sources inside of the media industry that Apple has been contacting existing

00:51:26   Apple News Plus publishers to get permission to produce professional audio versions of their

00:51:32   stories. In this agreement Apple would handle all of the production and the cost for the recordings

00:51:38   compensating publishers the same way that they do now so 50% of the subscription fee to Apple News

00:51:44   Plus based on the amount of time spent with a publisher right so if people are reading your

00:51:50   stuff you get and like I don't know I would assume Apple collect up all of the time and all of the

00:51:57   links consumed over the course of a month work out who had the most people and then splits their cut

00:52:05   up amongst it. It's very complicated and causes lots of frustration for people that are in the

00:52:12   Apple News Plus program but that's the way that they're doing it. This idea of professionally read

00:52:19   versions of news stories is something that exists in the news industry already. Some publishers do

00:52:25   it directly. There are some companies I do not remember the name off the top of my head but there

00:52:29   is a company in the UK which is like a coalition of various newspaper companies. They created a

00:52:36   company together that does this for them right because like I think Good Guardians involved and

00:52:42   I know the financial times has this as well but like so there's just you have a company that's

00:52:46   got a whole bunch of readers and then they distribute the stuff out and they turn it around

00:52:49   and they sit there and they just read articles all day long and then those get published out and

00:52:53   that's how you get a professionally read version of those stories because you have to you have to

00:52:59   turn it around fast. But I wonder how this will look. I saw several people mention this is great

00:53:05   for accessibility right because you're going to have better audio access to this content.

00:53:11   I do wonder if this is going to end up being almost like a podcast where if you're an Apple

00:53:17   News Plus subscriber you have the ability to basically say you know play my top stories and

00:53:22   have it just play a bunch of stories. It's not going to be the same quite as a podcast but it's

00:53:27   kind of like that of just give me an audio feed of whatever the news is and whatever top stories

00:53:32   algorithmically have audio attached it'll just play those until you tell it to stop.

00:53:36   You can do it through the HomePod you can do it obviously on your other devices. It's an interesting

00:53:41   idea. And also as well for people like me who do not enjoy reading especially really long articles

00:53:48   this would be a great way for me to consume that content. So you just mentioned Ben Thompson. I

00:53:54   have long wanted to subscribe to Stratechery because people always talk about how good the

00:53:59   content is but I just wouldn't read a newsletter every day. A few months ago Ben created the

00:54:06   Stratechery Daily Update podcast and I'd listen every single day because it is like a 10 or 15

00:54:13   minute or him reading the email is great for me because that fits my consumption habits and

00:54:21   preferences. So this is a thing where like I would only now be interested in Apple News Plus if they

00:54:29   offered this. It seems like if the price stayed the same good deal for consumers it's like an

00:54:36   additional benefit of the service provided that the content that you want to consume is there

00:54:41   right because one they've got to it's you know the stuff that you want to know has got to be in

00:54:48   Apple News Plus and then two that company that outlet would have had to agree for Apple to do

00:54:54   this for their stories and I guess three the particular stories you're interested in have

00:54:59   to be recorded right because there is like a person at hour in this right like it's a time

00:55:05   to produce because they're not doing this with like a Siri voice is the understanding like it's

00:55:11   actually people reading professional readers yeah in my opinion this should have been part of the

00:55:18   Apple News Plus subscription from the beginning like it would have made it more compelling

00:55:22   it's just like a package but adding it later will still be interesting from the Digiday article as

00:55:30   you can imagine this is being met with some skepticism from publishers which is why Digiday

00:55:35   know about it anyway because people in the media industry are complaining. Apple News Plus is still

00:55:42   continuing to not work out financially for publishers that are on board with it because

00:55:47   there aren't enough subscribers because there isn't enough of a hook for people to sign up and Apple's

00:55:53   taking 50% of a $5 a month subscription but a lot of publishers are worried that audio stories

00:56:00   because they take longer to consume will continue to further skew who gets the payouts so it's like

00:56:07   a chicken and egg problem here if you don't sign up to this you may actually serve to to lose more

00:56:14   money right because someone may read your article for a couple of minutes and then listen to your

00:56:21   competitors for 10 and even though the articles may be the same length people a lot of people

00:56:26   read faster than they can you know then something could be read to them so it's going to further

00:56:30   skew where these payouts are coming from I wonder what's going to happen here but I will say as a

00:56:36   consumer this is an interesting proposition for me what do you think? I'm fascinated by it

00:56:43   it's not my thing it's your thing so I like to hear your perspective about it so I appreciate

00:56:50   that I'm not going to ever choose listening if I was in a car commute or something again I might

00:56:57   listen to something like this but for me Ben's newsletter is always preferred and I don't listen

00:57:02   to his podcast unless it's an interview yeah because I'd rather listen to an interview than

00:57:06   read an interview transcript but I'd rather read a written piece rather than hear the writer read it

00:57:12   out loud but the the idea here is to provide other avenues for it and that's why I think it's super

00:57:17   smart is not everybody wants I think about this all the time as somebody who's a writer also a

00:57:22   podcaster right but I'm also a writer and I think about those pieces and sometimes I feel like I

00:57:29   know there's a lot of overlap but my stories have an audience which is readers and my podcasts have

00:57:34   an audience which is listeners and there is a portion of each audience that is not on the other

00:57:41   side like there are people who listen to this podcast who don't want to read my articles

00:57:45   because they don't want to read and there are people who read my articles who don't listen

00:57:50   to podcasts so it's a smart way to get more people reading your stuff or in consuming I guess

00:57:57   consuming your content in some way so I will ask you as a producer of content right would you

00:58:07   be open to this and I guess point two somebody who already produces audio how would you feel about

00:58:14   someone else reading your stuff so first thing is six colors I have thought about it you know

00:58:21   I'm not sure whether there's great value in reading six colors pieces for members but I thought about

00:58:27   it it's a lot of extra work I would just say like as a six colors subscriber I would love I'm just

00:58:33   telling you right now so you can file this feature request wherever you want but yeah I'll file it

00:58:37   somewhere not of your articles but of the newsletter yeah well that's what I was thinking

00:58:43   is essentially the member members only articles could that be a monthly or even weekly article by

00:58:49   article kind of thing I definitely have thought about it and will continue to think about it

00:58:53   it is people in the discord are pointing out like news on a regular basis it reminds them of

00:59:01   we did subnet on relay yeah it's a daily news podcast and my memory of that is and Stephen

00:59:07   Hackett's memory even more so is it's a lot of work and it's every day kind of work and that's

00:59:13   that's the thing whenever you commit to doing something like that you're not just committing

00:59:16   to doing it once you're committing to doing it the same every single time and that is a big

00:59:21   commitment so it's not one that you take lightly you have to really seriously consider it but that

00:59:26   type of content like you know from the reverse it's much easier to I don't want to use this word

00:59:34   but I have no other way to say it monetize content like this with direct payment than it is of

00:59:39   advertising it's very hard to to advertising on a three time a week 10 minute exactly oh yeah that

00:59:47   doesn't it doesn't make sense it's definitely something that fits better as a as a premium

00:59:51   kind of thing yeah I have a little more hesitation about having somebody else or read my pieces for

00:59:57   me then again it's always that thing where it's like if if Apple's gonna back up a truck full of

01:00:03   money to my house and and say here we want to have all your stories and we're gonna have some

01:00:09   random person read them I would say yes I think the interesting thing about this report is that

01:00:14   the publishers are already a little bit skeptical and these are additional rights and

01:00:20   they're already kind of skeptical so is there a renegotiation here which is okay we're going to

01:00:25   give you this but we want you to reduce your cut or something like that because yeah it's all part

01:00:30   of a negotiation but you know if it's worth it to them also you got to think about Apple News

01:00:35   one of the appeals of Apple News is it's another another revenue generating opportunity for a lot

01:00:43   of publishers without them having to do a lot in terms of building their own technology they're

01:00:48   using apples and this would be more of the same right they don't have to hire readers

01:00:53   and build a subscription audio feed or anything they just say okay apple do it and you know then

01:01:01   again the the flip side of that is if they all have their own subscribers yeah and they look at

01:01:07   this and they think well wait a second why shouldn't we do this and give it to our subscribers or the

01:01:11   publications that do already do it because there are some exactly and it's kind of like oh you know

01:01:17   like you can imagine for them it's like you're now encroaching on another one of our unique points

01:01:22   for why people should give us money directly in many ways this is just more of the same about

01:01:27   Apple News which is it's Apple wanting to build this thing publishers being skeptical this is

01:01:33   another way that Apple can make Apple News plus a better service yeah but it hits all the same

01:01:40   questions that this whole thing hits in terms of why as a publisher you would be a part of this

01:01:48   service when you sell your own you know and it's always interesting to us like this is Apple and

01:01:56   audio production now like hmm right like we have been wondering about this for a while you know

01:02:04   like Apple seem to be making hires in the podcast space right it wouldn't surprise me I mean I said

01:02:11   it would be podcast like it wouldn't surprise me if part of the strategy here is actually to build

01:02:15   a news podcast for Apple News plus subscribers that includes the contents of stories on Apple

01:02:23   News plus but it is not just a dry now I will read a story but something that's a little more produced

01:02:29   that would be a product that would be we talked about like premium podcasts from Apple well what

01:02:35   if it was a premium audio program not a podcast that was just for Apple News plus subscribers

01:02:41   could be could that could be something they could do too that's different but they it could be part

01:02:46   of this you know kind of larger approach to them but it comes back to the the content owners and

01:02:52   whether they're getting you know Apple doesn't have a service if the content owners don't play

01:02:57   ball so Apple has to make it worth their while in the long run like I think the biggest impediment

01:03:02   to the long-term success of Apple News plus isn't really the quality of the services built by Apple

01:03:08   it's whether they have the content sources or not because I think looking at it now I feel like it's

01:03:14   more likely that everybody walks away than that they pick up more people and they add more services

01:03:19   to the to the bundle I think I still am dubious about whether this is a good long-term play for

01:03:25   any publisher so this is it's it'll it'll be fascinating to see how this how this works and

01:03:31   if they negotiate better terms but uh but all the same things come into play which is like great

01:03:36   it's great that Apple's doing this shouldn't you be doing this yourself and and selling it directly

01:03:40   I wonder if we're gonna see departures like I wonder if there are contracts in place for like

01:03:46   term periods that people had to be on Apple News plus for you know like bigger publishers like

01:03:51   agree to do it for like a year 18 months something like that like if that's the case we start seeing

01:03:56   companies leave the platform like everyone's so unhappy about it right surely you're gonna start

01:04:03   to see people leaving it at some point like if they don't think that it's worth it for them

01:04:08   it's gonna be interesting to see how that one plays out I think

01:04:13   yeah but Apple News plus is still unfortunately the ugly duckling of the streaming services like

01:04:18   Apple's like subscription services their their services area it really isn't the one that's

01:04:25   that's making waves people don't necessarily on the whole seem very happy with it on either side

01:04:30   but I'm I'm actually pleased to see that they're appear to be doing something right like they're

01:04:38   not just taking it and just like like taking it lying down basically like they are trying to make

01:04:44   it a better service for everyone involved whether people like it or not I guess yes yeah well put

01:04:52   we're gonna make this better whether you like it or not all right this episode is also brought to

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01:06:06   solarwinds for their support of this show and relay fm hashtag ask upgrade time first question

01:06:14   comes from a discord user who used the question mark ask upgrade tag in discord as latan asks

01:06:20   if you are using screen time how much of a difference are you seeing between your devices

01:06:27   or how much difference are you seeing on your devices now that you are mostly stuck inside so

01:06:32   i actually think it's kind of funny right now when i get the screen time notification kind of like on

01:06:37   a sunday night monday morning whenever it comes through because it is varying wildly for me right

01:06:42   now jason some weeks i'm up like 50 some weeks down 50 and i don't really know why i am varying

01:06:50   the levels that i am but i'm seeing these huge differences right now if you do you use screen

01:06:55   time oh i have completely given up on screen time because i find the information it gives me

01:07:01   completely useless yeah also you know i use my devices i feel like the premise of screen time

01:07:09   is basically you should meter how much you use a device because it's a kind of part it's a part of

01:07:14   your lifestyle that should be less optional and reduced and all those things is like oh this is my

01:07:20   job it's my job i i you know my using my ipad i use my ipad an awful lot some of that is for fun and

01:07:28   a lot of it is for work and the phone i use it a lot less than that but so for me screen time

01:07:34   essentially is useless so i i have noticed some of those push notifications coming in

01:07:38   and during the quarantine and laughed at how it's like oh you used it for last time and i think

01:07:43   really did i how is that possible and i don't it doesn't make any sense to me so i've given up

01:07:48   completely yeah i every now and then i'll pop in there and and take a look at it but like right now

01:07:55   the the the data isn't really useful to me because these are unexpected situations that i'm finding

01:08:04   myself in like i can't compare my device usage to two months ago because it is different and it's

01:08:10   different in different and weird ways so but i do find it funny to get that notification at the

01:08:15   moment to see these huge swings like i was flicking through the the weeks today and like i have 50

01:08:21   up on last week for and then the week before was 40 down on the week before that like it's just

01:08:27   these wild swings at the moment uh neva asks what clipboard managers do you guys use if you use one

01:08:33   i am a launch bar person i use launch bar and it has a clipboard manager in it

01:08:44   so that i can very quickly just hit a keyboard shortcut and it actually launch bar appears with

01:08:49   a list of the last i don't know 10 15 clipboards and so that's how i i use it and it's great by

01:08:56   the way this i feel like we say this every so often it doesn't matter which one you use try

01:09:00   out a clipboard manager because first off if you've ever been somebody who copied something

01:09:04   to put it somewhere else and then something happened along the way and you copied something

01:09:08   else and then you're like oh i lost the thing i was copying clipboard manager it's got a history

01:09:13   that's how i use it and it's great i don't have like it's literally just a history list and that's

01:09:18   all i ever use it for and i can scroll through and find the thing it also is great when you're

01:09:22   in that moment where you've got to copy five different separate things from one place and

01:09:26   paste it somewhere else and you're usually going copy switch paste switch copy switch paste and now

01:09:33   you can just go copy copy copy copy switch paste paste paste paste because you've got all those

01:09:38   copies in your history so it's great the one i use is launch bar i use alfred launch bar and alfred

01:09:45   ostensibly the same thing they're very similar yeah yeah you know they are pretty much just

01:09:51   like they start as launcher applications like basically more powerful different spotlight

01:09:58   replacements um and they do different things and they have different uis and they have some parts

01:10:04   that are different i use alfred and i believe that clipboard management is a part of their power pack

01:10:08   which is like an upgrade that you can use um and i use my uh i use my clipboard manager a lot on my

01:10:15   mac like especially for the stuff that i'm doing when i'm posting shows because like for example

01:10:19   jason writes a title and a description and a short description that we tweet and he sends them to me

01:10:25   in slack before i publish so i just go to slack i copy all three things and then i have them in my

01:10:30   clipboard manager to paste them into all of the different fields that i need to paste them in when

01:10:33   i'm publishing the shows right because i'll put like i'll put it in forecast which is uh marco

01:10:38   armand's tool that we use to uh put our chapters in and stuff while i also put the title and

01:10:43   description in there then i'll put the title description into the cms and then i'll put the the

01:10:47   the short description into the tweet like they go all over the place so i love having that access

01:10:52   like this is one of those things where for a lot of people if they added this to ipad os they

01:10:57   wouldn't care but i would love it oh my god i love a clipboard manager built into ipad os

01:11:02   it's definitely on my wish list for whatever the next like it will always be on my wish list for

01:11:07   ipad until they give it to us i imagine the way it will be implemented is there will be an api to

01:11:13   give apps access to the clipboard um in the background or something and they'll basically

01:11:18   have to ask and they'll be like this app wants to see everything that's on your clipboard or whatever

01:11:22   and you know danger watch out scary but it's like yes please yes please i would like this app to

01:11:27   know everything that's on my clipboard because i want to be able to wind it back it would be even

01:11:32   better if apple just implemented this itself right it could do it more securely that way

01:11:38   but it's such a productivity boost to have multiple clipboards and when i'm on ios it

01:11:43   absolutely happens on my ipad all the time where i copy something and it's like the old days i copy

01:11:47   something and then i copy something else and i move and i go oh i lost my clipboard didn't i

01:11:52   i don't like it i know there are apps that you can use to put parts of your clipboard like you

01:11:58   switch to that app and drop it it's like a shelf for clipboard stuff but that's not what i'm talking

01:12:03   about like i that that's a fun hack but i'm not really interested in constantly switching to my

01:12:10   clipboard helper app in order to have this happen i just want to have it happen like it doesn't

01:12:15   yeah yeah i just want it there and like and if it is a case of like i'm not going to be able to bring

01:12:20   up a ui and paste it in it doesn't matter if i can just have it as an app it's just collecting it and

01:12:26   just slide over that app and just like copy copy copy paste paste paste like would be amazing right

01:12:30   like i would love that um that just seems like one of those things where depending on where apple

01:12:36   wants to go with ipad os and i think i think that they are pushing ipad os into these power user

01:12:42   things i believe that's where they're going with it like the hardware is suggesting that because

01:12:46   the hardware is getting more specific right like here is another keyboard it's 300 and it has a

01:12:53   trackpad and a cantilevered hinge right like do you need this most people know but professionals

01:12:59   you want it right like you know there's like things like that that they're doing which makes me

01:13:03   hopeful and this is one of the like again adding the trackpad support right like the

01:13:09   all the work that they did makes me hopeful for these weird things and interesting things

01:13:13   um but so i hope that this is the kind of stuff that would get added uh kate in the discord

01:13:20   this is interesting i'm genuinely intrigued that both of you both me and jason said copy three

01:13:25   times and paste four times i don't know why i did it i probably internalized what you said and then

01:13:30   just said the same thing well also sometimes you know you you're always pasting more than

01:13:35   you're copying otherwise why did you cop why would you ever copy yeah three things and paste two

01:13:40   things right like why did you copy that third thing what's going to happen to the third thing

01:13:43   so you always have to have it more so you have to and then you paste more than you copy that's just

01:13:48   it's just common sense johan asks do you listen to podcasts on your ipad

01:13:52   rarely i used to much more before airpods pro because i used to use my ipad when around the

01:14:06   house because i would typically have my ipad with me more than my iphone like if i'm doing things or

01:14:11   whatever my iphone tends to stay i like leave it around right but now the airpods i enjoy using

01:14:18   them so much that if i'm listening to anything around the house like even if no one's in i will

01:14:24   use the airpods because they give me additional benefits of like transparency and noise canceling

01:14:28   depending on the thing that i'm doing that it's much nicer than listening on a speaker like i

01:14:37   would some i sometimes use my iphone speaker but it's only when i cannot use my airpods

01:14:41   for some reason right like i like maybe in the shower i was i'm a podcast shower person and i

01:14:47   we can't use airpods there uh no uh and so yeah how would you clean your ears if you imagine

01:14:56   i don't think airpods are that are rated for that right no they're not it's just anybody who's put

01:15:02   them through the washing machine yeah but um i i actually have a um a bluetooth speaker that i use

01:15:08   in the shower um i have airpods that i do a lot um i will sometimes just listen on the iphone speaker

01:15:15   if i'm making a sandwich or something i don't need to pop my headphones in for that my ipad though

01:15:21   it's very rare i have overcast on it and i have it set to stream only and it's usually that i want to

01:15:26   listen to a particular thing or somebody sends me a link it's it's very rare and if i didn't have it

01:15:31   on there i wouldn't miss it are you a podcast download person oh yes yes i don't i download

01:15:38   i download everything i don't stream i don't stream i download i stream i stream just because

01:15:44   i subscribe to so many podcasts that if i downloaded everything my phone would fill up

01:15:49   like because i i subscribe to way more shows than i listen to and leave like huge back catalogs for

01:15:58   me to go and and listen to if i want to but i don't download them interesting interesting yeah

01:16:03   fascinating cory asks i know jason talked about this in the past but do you still read comics on

01:16:08   the 12.9 inch ipad pro i'm in the market for a new ipad i'm wondering if the bigger tablet

01:16:13   is too unwieldy for holding and reading or if it's the right choice to go with

01:16:16   cory i do still read comics on the 12.9 i still use the 12.9 you know an 11 inch ipad the comics

01:16:25   are all going to be a little smaller and if you have good eyesight it won't matter but it's all

01:16:30   the words are going to be smaller all the pictures are going to be smaller it's just not quite full

01:16:35   the full size effect that i feel like the 12.9 gives me um ultimately though it really depends

01:16:43   on how worried you are about the unwieldiness of it i don't mind having a big 12.9 inch ipad for

01:16:50   reading and working and everything else and holding it's fine i'm used to it but it's not

01:16:57   for everybody and i would say whether the comics look good on the screen is gonna you need to weigh

01:17:04   that based on how much comic reading you do because it will be better on the 12.9 but if you

01:17:11   don't do a lot of it and you do lots of other things in your ipad and you're really worried

01:17:14   about the weight then it's probably not reason enough to get the 12.9 but i love the 12.9

01:17:20   and roan asks do you think apple would rather keep a this is a hypothetical and i just thought

01:17:27   this is an interesting question do you think apple would rather keep a product secret or ship it on

01:17:32   time they had to just if people at apple if apple was the the company right just imagine it as one

01:17:39   thing and their way that they work do you think that they would rather keep a product secret or

01:17:44   ship it on time i think secret personally what do you think i don't understand what this means

01:17:52   just in general right like if apple had the choice company apple people apple had so they're either

01:17:57   going to ship it late but it's a perfect secret or they or people know about it but it gets in

01:18:06   advance and it ships on time um i i think ship it on what i think keep it secret keep it secret is

01:18:18   the answer here this is this is like one of those things where it's like i i go to the town and

01:18:21   and there's somebody who only tells a lie and there's somebody who only tells the truth and

01:18:24   what question do you ask them i think there's a trick question that roan's you know because

01:18:29   here's the thing so can you have a trick it is this is it they he's tricked us but i've outwitted

01:18:34   him oh okay the first thing is never get involved in a land war in asia but the second answer

01:18:41   is never go against a sicilian when death is on the line sorry that's the wrong movie

01:18:46   if you keep it secret and then you ship it nobody knows it wasn't on time right but there are

01:18:57   effects to apple right as a company you would imagine in something shipping light like

01:19:04   right i i think i think apple would always i think apple always wants it to be a secret

01:19:11   always always always and i do think and i know sometimes you're like well what if it leaks out

01:19:16   it's like well then it's not a secret right but if it's a secret and then it just ships you don't

01:19:21   even like the iphone was the iphone late when the original iphone shipped they probably wanted to

01:19:24   ship that sooner but they shipped it when they were ready and it was a secret before that it's

01:19:30   like well then it's on time it can't be late if nobody knows it exists until it ships right it

01:19:34   can be i hate that i hate that so much it can't be it can't be late it can because they have a

01:19:40   timeline right internally but the world doesn't know that as far as the world's concerned oh my

01:19:45   god a new apple product just emerged from cupertino and we never heard of it before my mind is blown

01:19:51   and somebody working in the back office is like oh boy we thought we were going to ship this two

01:19:54   years ago but here it is and i i get that internally that that causes trouble the truth is we live in

01:20:01   the other world right where apple generally is really really good at shipping things on their

01:20:04   schedule and everybody knows about it in advance i think apple would probably prefer it the other way

01:20:09   but um you know it's this is a funny mental exercise i also don't think the two are related

01:20:15   at all right like apple's ability to ship things on a schedule is not really related to apple's

01:20:19   ability to keep them a secret but i think deep in apple's bones they want to keep everything

01:20:24   a secret i think so too i think the secrecy part is so important to them for so many reasons

01:20:31   that would always be the preferred thing right like and you know i wonder if if the the shipping

01:20:38   on time thing like thinking about stuff like air power and how that may have changed things

01:20:44   right like that was such a strange little thing that happens true it's true well that's the that's

01:20:50   the other part of it right is they announced air power and couldn't ship it like i think apple has

01:20:54   really learned its lesson there in terms of the air tags are the example right that i think is

01:21:00   the counter which is um that's a product that we've been hearing that they've been ready to

01:21:05   ship for a long time and it's never been announced and that's the exact opposite of what happened with

01:21:14   air power so that you know is air tags late it's not a secret but it's also never been never been

01:21:21   announced and therefore when it ships is it gonna are we gonna say that it's shipped late i don't

01:21:27   know i feel like i feel like it's late we're fast approaching like the time where there's gonna be

01:21:34   a new phone right like that's coming up and like the u1 chip has never been used on the phone

01:21:40   that we came out on because mike that was just for directional airdrop

01:21:44   oh did you see me roll my eyes there across the podcast yeah okay everyone's favorite feature that

01:21:50   works as intended do you ever does that ever i've never worked out what it's supposed to do

01:21:56   that well it's supposed to like point at the person you're like when you're pointing your

01:22:00   phone at the person who you're air dropping it pops that person up and says like yeah that that

01:22:05   one that one is where you no it's it's pointless it's silly if you would like to submit a question

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01:22:53   find jason's work online you can go to six colors.com and the incomparable.com where jason

01:22:58   hosts many wonderful shows about pop culture related topics and also here at relay fm go to

01:23:03   relay.fm slash shows jason and myself are on many podcasts here if you just listen to upgrade or

01:23:08   maybe one other i'm sure that there'll be something there for you uh jason is at j snell on social

01:23:13   media platforms what's your favorite social media platform jason um do i have to choose

01:23:22   how can i choose from all of my children uh and i am i'm mike i m y k e and we'll be back next

01:23:29   time until then say goodbye jason snow goodbye mike early