290: You Are The Button


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:08   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 290. Upgrade today is brought to you by Indeed.

00:00:15   My name is Myke Hurley. I am joined as always by Mr Jason Snell. Hi Jason Snell.

00:00:20   Hello Myke Hurley, how are you? I'm very well, very well indeed. Today's sponsors are Pingdom, ExpressVPN, TextExpander and Ooni.

00:00:27   Jason, I have a #SnellTalk question to begin today's episode that has come from myself because every now and then...

00:00:34   What?

00:00:34   I want a question, can't find an example of it...

00:00:36   This is outrageous.

00:00:38   ...and just ask it on my own. And I want to know, because I think this is going to be important for today's episode,

00:00:43   Jason, what are your preferred computer input devices for controlling a cursor?

00:00:47   So, when I was in college and stuff, I used a mouse, like a regular old Mac mouse,

00:00:56   and I got to... I got a trackball in my powerbook when I... when the first powerbooks came out,

00:01:03   the pointing device wasn't a trackpad, it was actually a trackball. And I liked that.

00:01:06   And so when I got to Mac User, my first... actually it was my internship,

00:01:10   there was an editor there who had a Kensington trackball and I really liked that. And when she

00:01:16   left, she left the trackball behind. I was like, "I want that, I want that." And that was my trackball.

00:01:21   And I used a trackball after that. I really liked the control and the kind of big arm gestures and

00:01:28   not the fine, like, tense movements of gripping a mouse that I was just kind of like rolling the

00:01:33   ball around on the screen. And then the trackpads happened and the magic trackpad happened. And that

00:01:40   was basically converted me to using a trackpad because it gave me a lot of the same kind of feel

00:01:44   as the trackball did. And trackballs were not as good, they got weirder and worse over time.

00:01:50   The last one I had had like a bunch of buttons and I had a weird like wheel on it separately for a

00:01:56   scroll wheel because the concept of a scroll wheel didn't really work with a trackball. And then I

00:02:01   made the switch. And so I've been using magic trackpads since the first magic trackpad came out

00:02:06   and I use the magic trackpad too today. So I'm all in on those. I've never... I've not regularly

00:02:12   used a mouse since like 19... since the early 90s let's say. A long, a very long time since

00:02:21   I've used a mouse. It was a trackball and then a trackpad. Interesting. Obviously, I mean,

00:02:27   I rotate quite a lot with my devices but my absolute favorite is a Wacom tablet. So I use

00:02:33   the Wacom Intuos Pro. For similar things that you were saying about like big arm movements,

00:02:39   less fine motor control is one of the reasons I really like using a Wacom. RSI aside, like

00:02:47   and there is RSI, but aside from that I found the mouse, you know, that gripping that mouse,

00:02:55   and maybe it's the way I did it, but like gripping that mouse and doing fine movements and all of

00:02:59   that was really fatiguing. Even as a teenager or somebody in my early 20s it was fatigue. It'd be

00:03:06   devastating now as somebody who's in my 40s, but back at the time it was still fatiguing to just

00:03:13   tense those muscles and I felt like, yeah, like it was something about like bigger movements and

00:03:19   not requiring that fine detail and it was just kind of more pleasant to do. So, yeah.

00:03:25   So if you would like to send in a question to help us open an episode of Upgrade just send out

00:03:31   a tweet with the hashtag #snotalk and it will be included. And if Myke doesn't have a question

00:03:35   that he wants to ask me he might ask your question. It's typically the other way around,

00:03:40   but I take your point. Obviously we have a lot of new Apple products to talk about today and a lot

00:03:44   of new interesting things happening with Apple products, but we should talk about Coronavirus

00:03:52   because you can't get away from it. COVID-19 is affecting the entire planet right now. We hope

00:03:57   that you out there, listener, are staying away from people and washing your hands. They are the

00:04:03   two pieces of advice we will give you. So do that as much as absolutely possible. Remain indoors.

00:04:07   Remain indoors if you can. And we're sure that we have many of our listeners working from home.

00:04:14   So again, if you want to get any tips from us when working at home, if you've got any questions,

00:04:17   you can always send those in to us as well. But we have a couple of technology-related

00:04:22   things that I want to talk about in regards to COVID-19 today. So we had mentioned on our last

00:04:27   episode that Apple was closing its retail stores until the end of March. This has now been updated

00:04:33   to "until further notice", which makes sense. So they don't have to issue another note at the end

00:04:39   of March because it's not going to be okay by next week. I think we can all agree on that. So they

00:04:46   have now closed their stores until further notice. Google I/O is now completely cancelled. So Google

00:04:55   I/O was cancelled in the sense of having a physical event before WWDC. But Google have

00:05:01   now announced that they will be doing no Google I/O of any kind. This includes online, there will

00:05:07   be no keynotes, there will be nothing. This is because Google are saying that they're not able

00:05:14   to produce this content because people are staying at home and instead they're going to be making all

00:05:20   of their announcements separately via Google's blogs, PR channels and in their forums. I guess

00:05:27   really the question here when again looking towards WWDC is how do you make good quality

00:05:32   videos if nobody is supposed to be together in offices? How do you make session videos? How do

00:05:37   you make presentation keynote videos? How are you supposed to do them? I think Google has decided

00:05:43   that they think the best route for them is to probably just present everything via text.

00:05:49   So, yeah, I wonder about Apple's presentations here and there was definitely speculation about

00:05:54   that going around in the past week. I feel like the same way about this as I do about

00:06:00   talk show hosts actually, which is the technology exists to do this stuff and do it pretty well,

00:06:09   even though it's not what you're used to. So when I see Stephen Colbert, who is a late night talk

00:06:14   show host here in the United States, do a monologue with AirPods in his ears sitting on his deck, I

00:06:22   think surely there is somebody somewhere who has access to a microphone or something that they

00:06:30   could ship to him and leave it outside his door and then he could remove it and wash his hands and

00:06:37   all those things. But the equipment exists. So my first thought was for Apple sessions,

00:06:44   you could just put microphones, like send them microphones. And if that fails, maybe what you do

00:06:49   is you create like a studio space and have them bring in their laptop and you disinfect it and

00:06:55   it's just that one person in there and they come in and record it. There are ways to do it, but

00:06:59   like I feel like you could do those presentations, especially if you're not doing video and it's just

00:07:04   their slides and audio, you can do that fairly easily. I also think that people will accept

00:07:10   at least a little bit degraded quality given that we all know what the context is of all of this.

00:07:15   Apple did some video stuff last week about product releases that we're going to get into here in a

00:07:22   minute and it was a little bit different, right? Like some of the stuff was different, but we all

00:07:28   know why and it's fine. So I do think that it's an open question. How do you do WWDC content if

00:07:38   you're Apple? What does it look like? What does it sound like? We're all figuring this out and

00:07:47   I would imagine they're figuring it out too, but they do have resources and there is equipment

00:07:52   that will make it better for people who are working at home. So I feel like it's a problem

00:07:58   that can be solved. - Yeah, we are doing what we are doing right now from our homes. It is possible

00:08:08   to do. It can be difficult to do for some people if you're not aware of what you're doing, of course.

00:08:13   - Yeah, if you're starting from nothing. This is our livelihood and already was. And so that is one

00:08:18   of the great ironies of this. And I know that we have a, I think we have a question coming at the

00:08:22   end of Ask Upgrade about this maybe even, but one of the funny things about this is that there are

00:08:29   professionals who are used to working in studios who now are trying to do what we do. And it's

00:08:35   interesting to see them struggling with it because they didn't have to do this before. They would go

00:08:40   into the office and then there was a studio there. - It was set up for them. - Yeah, exactly. And we

00:08:46   have built this stuff. So I've answered questions from some people about this because podcasters had

00:08:53   to figure this out and now a lot of these professional people have to figure it out too.

00:08:58   And there's a radio sports guy here in the Bay Area who I think found his best quality

00:09:05   recording studio is in his car with like blankets and stuff. It's bananas, but again, you got to do

00:09:11   what you got to do. So the technology exists. People will figure it out. And Apple certainly,

00:09:18   yeah, has the resources to make this work if they wanted to. - And finally, Bloomberg is stating

00:09:26   that the 2020 iPhone is still on schedule. This is partly because production is not expected to

00:09:32   start until May. So it's still a big question. But I think this is going to be an interesting story to

00:09:39   just keep track of like what is going to happen with the iPhone. Clearly Apple believe products

00:09:43   can be made because they are releasing new ones. But it's going to be interesting to see how things

00:09:51   continue to unfold as the year goes on. - Right, right. Yeah, we'll keep an eye on it because

00:09:56   nobody knows, right? We're in uncharted territory here. - Yep. If we look at some interesting news

00:10:03   in parallel in the streaming industry, Disney have put their new Pixar movie Onward out for

00:10:10   sale early. So it's out for sale, I think now and is going to be on Disney+ next weekend.

00:10:15   - And keep in mind this movie was in the theaters like a few weeks ago and would still be.

00:10:20   And it didn't do well for I think some obvious reasons. And they have decided to cut their

00:10:26   losses essentially. And they think that there is, I think rightly so, a greater demand for things

00:10:32   at home right now. So maybe we could just flip that switch and they'll see what happens. Now,

00:10:37   they did it in a curious way where they said it would be on Disney+ and then put it on for

00:10:42   sale, which is a funny way. It's like a different version of the rental window. So if you want to

00:10:48   buy it, you can buy it now for $20. But if you wait a couple of weeks, it'll just be on Disney+.

00:10:52   And if you're a Disney+ subscriber, you can just watch it there. But I think it's an opportunity

00:10:57   for them to experiment with something that they're making the best. They're making lemonade at this

00:11:02   point. That's all they can do. - Disney+ is launching in more countries this week. So we're

00:11:07   going to have it in the UK. But there's going to be reduced streaming quality in the UK and Europe.

00:11:12   Disney+ is joining a large selection of countries that have been asked by the European Union to

00:11:18   degrade their streaming quality to ease the stress on infrastructure, online infrastructure.

00:11:25   - Right. I've definitely had internet slowdowns. I don't know if you've seen them.

00:11:28   - I haven't seen them. - They've come and gone, but there were a couple of days where the internet

00:11:33   got really slow for me. And then it's sort of been, it's sprung back up. I wonder if they're

00:11:39   doing some network management things because they're presumably the network traffic is greater

00:11:45   and also it's in different places than it used to be. But reducing quality in order to

00:11:50   keep bandwidth available in the internet and in Europe makes a lot of sense. And then the big

00:11:57   thing that you and I have talked about, I think here and there for a while, which is, what would

00:12:02   you do if you're taking a movie that's in theaters and putting it at home too, Universal out of,

00:12:09   basically they've been forced to do this, has done this with a bunch of movies that they had

00:12:14   in theaters or were about to be in theaters. They took, I think it's four movies, including Emma,

00:12:21   which just came out, and they're putting them on as $20 rentals, which if you think about it,

00:12:26   is about the cost of two people going out to see a movie. So they can recoup more of the cost than

00:12:31   they would from like a $5 rental and they're gonna try it. And, again, it's interesting,

00:12:38   it's because of extreme circumstances, but I wonder, sometimes these things really work

00:12:45   and sometimes they fail. So we'll see which one it is. But I think it's an interesting

00:12:49   attempt by Universal to kind of say, well, the theatrical exhibitions aren't happening. So we're

00:12:57   gonna try to do at home new releases where you pay $20 and your whole family can sit there,

00:13:04   where you've been sitting all day and watch a movie. But a lot of the movies are just being

00:13:10   outright delayed because there are big budgets and they haven't spent their marketing budget

00:13:15   and they're not... The "Fast and Furious" movie got delayed a year and the "Marvel" delayed their

00:13:21   movie. And all the big movies are not just going to a $20 rental yet at this point. They're all

00:13:28   just kind of being pushed into the future instead. Yeah. And I guess if you're a company like

00:13:32   Universal, you're just like, well, we can't push everything. So let's try and make the best of what

00:13:39   we can. And a movie like "Trolls," now "Trolls" would have done big money in cinemas, but they

00:13:46   have made, I think, the right decision in that, well, it's probably gonna do big money on home

00:13:51   rental or buying as well. Well, "World Tour" is coming out as one of these $20 rentals. And I

00:13:57   think, yeah, the idea there is that parents and kids are home and this is a new movie. And instead

00:14:03   of taking them to the theater, they'll pay 20 bucks and they'll all sit there and watch it.

00:14:07   It's a 48-hour rental for 20 bucks. But again, if you think about how much that family, a family of

00:14:12   four would pay, let's say, to go to see that movie in the theater, it's a lot more than 20 bucks.

00:14:18   Mm-hmm. And how much did Universal get though?

00:14:21   Yeah. Well, I guess that's a question, right? They would get even less.

00:14:25   So, but it's a good, from a consumer angle, like it seems like the $20 rental is expensive until

00:14:32   you think about how much you spend going out and then you realize it's actually not unless you're

00:14:36   just there alone. But even with one other person, you're in the ballpark. And if it's a family film,

00:14:41   like Trolls World Tour, it's even more so. So we'll see. We'll see how it goes. I'm not saying

00:14:46   that this is going to destroy the movie theaters, although it might and the virus might. But it's

00:14:54   going to give people more data points, both consumers about like, how do I feel paying for

00:14:59   a new release that costs $20 instead of a rental that comes later for six. And from the studio's

00:15:05   perspective, like how did this work and what did we learn? And did some movies work better than

00:15:09   others? And I don't know how it's going to shake out, but I think the one thing I will make a bet

00:15:15   about is that the relationship and the decision-making about what movies get released,

00:15:21   when and where and how, when we come back from all of this, it's going to be different. I don't know

00:15:25   how it's going to be different, but it's going to be different. Yes. Especially over the next few

00:15:30   years, as all of these companies continue to see the benefits of owning their own platforms.

00:15:35   Right. I think that there's going to be different decisions made about what is quote unquote,

00:15:39   direct to video and what isn't. Well, and, and what, what do people want to go to a movie theater

00:15:45   for? Let's, let's assume that this whole thing ends, but still everybody will have gone through

00:15:51   this and through social distancing and all of that. People, some people are going to not want

00:15:56   to be in crowds. So that's going to hurt theatrical. Are there certain kinds of movies that play well

00:16:03   in movie theaters? Are some movie theaters going to go under because they realize they just can't

00:16:06   make it in the new world? We don't know any of that dynamic yet, but you got to think that just

00:16:14   by, by doing this and trying this and people being at home that something will change, whether it's

00:16:22   the behavior of consumers or whether it's the assumptions that corporations were happy to make

00:16:28   in normal times that when forced to make a different decision, they discover interesting

00:16:34   results, right? That shake them out of their complacency. Something will change. Will be

00:16:38   interesting to see exactly what and exactly how. But I, again, I will note that the big budget

00:16:44   movies that they're really banking on that they need hundreds of millions of dollars.

00:16:48   Those aren't coming out on home video right now. Those are just getting delayed. Like, please, no,

00:16:53   fast and furious. See you next year, right? Like just, we're not going to do it. So, um,

00:16:59   it's more like movies that are, that are already out or their marketing budget was already spent

00:17:03   and this is the best time, uh, or they're just cutting their losses. Those are the ones that

00:17:07   we're seeing right now. All right. Today's episode is brought to you in part by our friends over at

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00:18:57   Our thanks to text expand for their support of this show and relay FM. The 2020 iPad pro.

00:19:04   Yes. You have one? I have it. That's why the show got posted on Tuesday.

00:19:08   Yeah. Instead of Monday. I can admit that I have it right in front of me right now. It's here.

00:19:13   I don't think there's a ton to talk about here, but we wanted to talk about it with the knowledge

00:19:18   and when we could talk about it with somebody who has one rather than just reading spec pages,

00:19:22   because I guess it's even more difficult to understand with just spec pages how this thing

00:19:27   works. But I guess one of the key things here is power differences. There are some. They're not

00:19:33   huge, but they're there, right? It's okay. Now, are they there? Basically not. So here's the thing.

00:19:41   The new processor in this is the A12Z. So it goes from A to Z. The old, the 2018 model had the A12X.

00:19:53   And you know, Apple, what Apple has told me is limited. I have asked, but the thing is like,

00:20:01   it's an eight core processor, just like the old one. It's got four high speed cores and

00:20:06   four efficiency cores, just like the old one. It has a graphics processor with eight

00:20:12   cores instead of seven. And Apple says that the thermals are better on this, that they did some

00:20:19   changing to the thermals. And the idea there is that it dissipates heat a little bit better than

00:20:23   the older iPad. And that means it can run a little bit hotter, which means that for extended work at

00:20:28   high performance, it won't have to throttle down as quickly. So that is potentially good,

00:20:32   harder to test. I did run the usual Geekbench series of benchmarks on it, and it looks exactly

00:20:40   like what I just said, which is it's basically the same. Like single core and multi-core, basically

00:20:46   the same, and graphics, slightly better. So if you want a faster iPad, you didn't get one. So that's

00:20:55   not a reason to buy this if you've got a 2018, is the faster. The big differences are the one terabyte

00:21:02   model on the old 2018 had six gigs of RAM, and the other ones had four. It's not something Apple

00:21:08   talks about, but it was widely known. And my understanding is that all of these have six gigs

00:21:13   of RAM. And I believe all of the 2020 iPads have the U1 chip in them, although Apple didn't talk

00:21:18   about that either, but that seems to be the case. So if there are, you know, other ultra wide band

00:21:24   features that happen, and in the meantime the smart AirDrop, I think that this device will get those.

00:21:31   And there's like Wi-Fi 6 support if you have a brand new Wi-Fi something, which nobody has.

00:21:36   So it's minor stuff. Like this is the really the thing that changed in the hardware is the camera.

00:21:45   Like the camera is different. Before we talk about camera, can we do wild conspiracy theory time with

00:21:51   Myke and Jason? Okay, sure. The six gigabyte of RAM everywhere is weird, right? Like that's just

00:21:57   strange. Like why did they do that without really changing anything else? I mean, it might just be a

00:22:02   price thing, but you're going to say there's a wild conspiracy behind it. So let's talk about it.

00:22:07   Which is, you know, like we remember, everyone remembers the good old iPad Air 2, the way too

00:22:14   powerful iPad for when it was released. But one of the reasons is because iPad multitasking needed it

00:22:22   when they, but they iPad multitasking didn't exist yet. So I'm wondering if the six gigabytes of RAM

00:22:28   is needed for something coming at WWDC, potentially that thing is the ARM device that we've been

00:22:37   wondering, right? Like, oh, like if this can boot Mac OS for ARM for developers. Yeah. I don't know.

00:22:44   I don't know either, but I just like, you know, I just see that it's like, that's weird that they

00:22:48   put that in there. I think they saw the difference in performance between the four and the six and

00:22:51   they could afford to put the six in this time since they're keeping the price the same, but it's

00:22:56   all the components are presumably cheaper 18 months later. But this is, this is the most,

00:23:01   sorry, sorry for people who are excited about this, the most minor of speed bumps. Like this

00:23:06   is not, it's not even a speed bump. It is a camera bump and literally the camera bump bumped out.

00:23:11   And that's the story. Like they're, they say that they are, they changed the architecture of the

00:23:18   microphones. Like the iPad pro had five microphones before and it still does,

00:23:23   but they say now it's using the architecture that the 16 inch MacBook pro has. It might sound better.

00:23:29   It doesn't sound any different to me. Okay. So that I, you know, if, if it sounds better, like

00:23:35   I looked, I compared the reviewers guide that Apple gives you as a product reviewer from the

00:23:41   2018 one to the current one. It's like almost nothing is different. It's basically the same iPad.

00:23:47   They, they refreshed it and they added the camera. So we should talk about the camera.

00:23:52   And then even when we talk about the accessories, which we're very excited about, and we'll talk

00:23:55   about in a little bit, those also work on the 2018 models. So, you know, it's, it's, it's minor.

00:24:02   It's a, this is a really minor update. It's great. I love the iPad. And if you, you know,

00:24:07   I can jump into who it's for in a little bit, but you know, before we get there,

00:24:12   let's talk about the camera. Okay. So we have a 12 megapixel main camera. It's seems the same camera

00:24:18   that was in the 2018, as far as I can tell, but it gains the ultra wide from the iPhone 11. Like,

00:24:23   this is actually the iPhone 11 system ish, not the iPhone 11 pro it is. It's a 10 megapixel ultra

00:24:30   wide. And I think the 11 is a 12 megapixel ultra wide. So it's actually a little bit less, but yeah,

00:24:35   it's the same idea. It's got a second camera. It's an ultra wide, like on the 11. It's not a

00:24:40   telephoto like on the earlier iPhones. It's like the iPhone 11. It's got an ultra wide. So if you

00:24:45   want to take further, further back shots, which I think on an iPad is actually a pretty good use case,

00:24:51   you can do that. And then they have this LIDAR sensor, which is a pretty wild thing. It is

00:24:58   basically doing light based range finding of objects in order to build a better depth map

00:25:06   of the scene so that it can do augmented reality. And how much of a difference does the LIDAR make

00:25:13   over the current system? So here's the thing, and I don't know whether this is related to

00:25:17   everybody scrambling because we're working out of our homes now and people at Apple are scrambling

00:25:21   as well. Usually there are examples and they have some demos in like their, in their promo videos

00:25:28   and stuff, but like I haven't been able to test this thing with anything, any app that's out there

00:25:35   that explicitly supports it, but it does sound like the system in general is, is in the background,

00:25:41   just using the LIDAR to build a better depth map. And it is better. The example I can give you is

00:25:48   when I opened, so I use Safari because Safari is built into the system and Apple has a bunch of AR

00:25:54   models on their website. So that's what I used to try this feature out. You open the, open up the

00:26:00   iPad Pro 2018 model and you go to an AR model and it says, wave the iPad around, basically. It needs

00:26:07   to like look around and try to build a depth map based on your movements and the parallax and all

00:26:13   of these things that are going on. On the 2020 model, it just knows. It's impressive. Like,

00:26:22   it knows the composition of the scene. And if you drag that model off the floor and onto a desk,

00:26:28   it just hops up onto the desk and it gets it right. And I was, I was impressed at that because

00:26:35   that is, that is what is supposed to happen is it now just knows the depth. And you can see how

00:26:41   all the rumors are that this will be on the new iPhones this fall as well, how it's much better

00:26:45   for AR because you're building a much more comprehensive depth map. What I find weird is

00:26:50   that it's not using the two cameras or the LIDAR to do a portrait mode. Portrait mode is still only

00:26:57   on the forward facing camera. I'm a little surprised that they don't offer a portrait mode

00:27:01   since they have all that depth data on the back, but for whatever reason they don't.

00:27:04   So maybe that'll be a software update down the road, but it is again, is this a feature you're

00:27:10   going to buy unless you're an AR developer? Are you going to buy this new iPad because the LIDAR?

00:27:14   I don't think so. And that gets us to the real crux of this, which is who is this for? Who is the

00:27:20   2020 iPad for? And the answer is it's actually kind of like when we talk about iPhones and we say,

00:27:25   you're probably not going to upgrade from last year's iPhone to this year's iPhone. You're

00:27:29   probably upgrading from two or three years ago's iPhone to this one. That's who the 2020 iPad

00:27:34   is for. It's for the people who didn't buy the 2018 iPad Pro. It's for everybody who's back on

00:27:39   an earlier iPad Pro or doesn't have an iPad Pro and is thinking of going because maybe they're

00:27:44   tempted by some of the accessories that we'll talk about in a minute, but that's who it's for.

00:27:48   If you have a 2018 iPad Pro, I don't, I mean, again, unless you're like an AR developer or

00:27:55   really, really, really into high performance of augmented reality, like there's no real reason.

00:28:01   It is basically the same iPad as it was before. And the A12Z, like, I think that says it all.

00:28:07   Like this is just a slightly recast A12X. It isn't an A13 or an A14. It is, you know,

00:28:16   you want to get conspiratorial. I do wonder, there are some rumors about like 5G iPads in the fall.

00:28:22   I have a hard time believing they would release a new iPad six months after releasing an iPad. I

00:28:29   feel like it's going to be another 18 months, but I do wonder about the 5G and wonder if they might

00:28:33   have a new processor at that point. But my guess is that they figure the iPad Pro, talk about that

00:28:38   iPad Air being way too powerful. When the iPad Pro came out in 2018, it was way too powerful, like

00:28:44   way more power than the iPad could really use. And I would argue that's still the case. And so I don't

00:28:50   think I was feeling like the iPad Pro was getting slow and needed a speed boost, not even remotely.

00:28:56   So that's good because it didn't. It's the bottom line here. It didn't. The excitement about this

00:29:02   product is that they pushed it forward in a couple of areas. It's basically just a refresh,

00:29:09   and it's an opportunity to launch their new accessories and make software changes. And

00:29:15   those are by far the most exciting part of this. Unfortunately, the most exciting accessory

00:29:20   is not going to be available until May. So in the meantime, we have the iPad Pro, which is great.

00:29:27   I love the iPad Pro. You love the iPad Pro. These are great. However, if you already have a 2018,

00:29:33   you would be hard-pressed to tell the difference. I do think that there is a potential for iOS 14

00:29:39   to maybe have some doubling down on AR stuff, right? That like maybe they then want to have

00:29:46   LIDAR available in all their products. And if you think about LIDAR and Ultra Wideband,

00:29:51   this is another example where like, what about these AirTags? We had all these rumors that Apple

00:29:56   is going to do these smart tags so that if you lose something, you can find it. The U1 chip does

00:30:00   nothing. Right now it does nothing. It doesn't make sense. So if that product comes out, that

00:30:05   makes this iPad Pro more interesting, right? Because it would support that presumably at that

00:30:10   level of precision, just like the iPhone 11s would, and the 2018 iPad Pros wouldn't. But right now,

00:30:16   it does nothing other than like smart AirDrop pointer thing, which is not even a feature.

00:30:21   I have never gotten that to work. I don't even know what I'm supposed to do.

00:30:25   So again, that might be a thing that becomes something, but right now it seems like it's

00:30:30   nothing. So there's, it's, again, it's nice that they updated it a little bit, but it's really

00:30:38   marginal. And the story here is really the accessories and the accessories can be used

00:30:41   with the 2018 models. So it's, they're not a reason to force people to upgrade. And I,

00:30:46   you know, I applaud Apple for bringing those features to the older model, but they're

00:30:53   definitely not doing the thing where the iPad is almost exactly the same, but you have to buy it

00:30:57   again because it's shaped slightly differently so that you can get the hot new accessory. They

00:31:01   didn't do that. They refrained. I think maybe for good reason. I think so. It would have been a bit

00:31:06   spiteful considering the fact that the iPad did not get meaningful upgrades to it. Yeah, right.

00:31:11   So this is fine. I'm not disappointed by it because I didn't feel like desperate for updates that

00:31:17   didn't happen. The iPad 2018 is very capable and remains way ahead of the competition in so many

00:31:25   different ways. But it is not a must. If you love the 2018 iPad Pro, you have to update to the 2020

00:31:33   iPad Pro. That's not the case at all. So maybe even more exciting, I think definitely more exciting

00:31:40   than our friend, the 2020 iPad Pro is the Magic Keyboard. Oh boy, the Magic Keyboard. Jason Snell,

00:31:48   it came down from high to us. I am so excited about this. It was cantilevered down, cantilevered

00:31:56   slowly lowered, keeping its weight forward until it reached us here standing on the number row of our

00:32:04   giant keyboard. So you've probably seen the Magic Keyboard by now. It's coming in May. You know,

00:32:11   I've seen a lot of people say and I understand that like potentially coronavirus has delayed

00:32:15   things, but I think it's worth remembering that the Smart Keyboard and the Apple Pencil,

00:32:20   when they were both debuted, they came really late and supply constrained. So there is a history to

00:32:24   iPad Pro peripherals coming late. I actually don't really think it's anything to do with coronavirus

00:32:31   at all. No, probably not. I mean, it might be a factor, but it is interesting that they're

00:32:36   announcing this product. So they announced the iPad Pro and they announced the new Magic Keyboard

00:32:41   for the iPad Pro and, you know, see you in May, right? Two months out, the iPad Pro this week,

00:32:50   the keyboard, May, like, and probably hard to get in May, but they, you know, they want to tell that

00:32:58   story together, even though this new keyboard with Trackpad, it's kind of even hard to believe it,

00:33:05   will work with the 2018 iPad Pro. It will work with that model. So it's backward compatible.

00:33:14   So you do not have one of these, nor have you seen one, right?

00:33:17   No, I have not. Only the bizarre augmented reality version that Apple has on their website. But no,

00:33:27   this is not a thing that anybody has right now, it seems. I have it on good authority that there are a

00:33:34   very small number of these even at Apple. So like, it's not out yet.

00:33:39   - Yeah, May is a way away. - They didn't make it yet.

00:33:40   - Right, like, so it's not surprising. - It is.

00:33:42   You know, these things are probably starting to be made now, right? Like, that might be a thing.

00:33:48   And for all we know, Apple may have wanted to stage this out a little bit. I mean,

00:33:52   we're going to get into this, but I think there's lots of potential reasons why this product isn't

00:33:56   for sale right now. But I think one of them might have purely been not wanting to tip their hat

00:34:01   earlier than, because this was a big surprise. Like, not just this product, which is absolutely

00:34:09   fascinating and bizarre, but also that we have cursor support, which we're going to talk about

00:34:14   separately in a little bit. But those were big things, and maybe they didn't want to necessarily

00:34:20   tip their hat on it. I don't know. - Yeah, see, you say tip their hat,

00:34:23   but I think you mean tip their hand, which is like a poker metaphor. Tip their hat would be like,

00:34:28   I recognize you, Ming-Chi Kuo, you found out about our keyboard. I tip my hat to you.

00:34:32   - Hats and hands, Jason. - I've worked it out,

00:34:35   Myke. It makes total sense now. We salute you. Game recognize game. Yeah, so here we are with

00:34:42   an super surprising product. It took us by surprise. Lots of rumors about it. We spent

00:34:50   a while a few weeks ago talking about would they do one or both, and they did the both thing in a

00:34:57   really unexpected way where they're keeping the smart keyboard. And I feel like we did call that

00:35:02   a little bit, that you keep the smart keyboard and then you make an even more expensive, smarter

00:35:06   keyboard, and that's what we have here. This is not cheap. We're talking about $300-plus

00:35:12   for this thing. - Because we were talking,

00:35:15   you know, we've been talking a lot about what we imagined our best-case scenario would be.

00:35:19   And for us to get that best-case scenario, which I think we have actually gotten,

00:35:23   we knew it would be an expensive thing for Apple to do in the way that Apple would want to do it.

00:35:30   Like, you can make a cheap version of this product, but it's not going to have a cantilevered hinge,

00:35:35   right? Like, it's going to be a very, very different thing. And I think a lot of the

00:35:40   expense of this product is in the design, the mechanism. So can you help explain

00:35:48   the cantilevered hinge, what it's doing? - So the effect here, and I am not,

00:35:56   actually Dr. Drang, our friend who is an engineer, actually posted a thing on his blog that we can

00:36:01   link to that is about the weight and how it gets distributed, which I think is very clever. But

00:36:10   it's all about putting the weight in the right place, because you don't want it too far in the

00:36:16   back because it'll flip over backward. Now, I suspect that this case is heavy. Maybe not as

00:36:23   heavy as a bridge keyboard, but I suspect it's heavy. I'll also note that nowhere does Apple

00:36:29   talk about what they weigh. Like, nowhere. It is not announced. I'm sure they know what it weighs.

00:36:35   They're not talking about it. - Someone knows. It has to be heavy. It has to be heavy.

00:36:39   - Otherwise it would flip over backward. Although, the clever thing about it is, with this design,

00:36:44   so there's a hinge down at the base behind the keyboard, and that's got a USB-C charging port in

00:36:51   it. It's kind of bananas. So that's there. And then up from that comes a folding part of the back.

00:36:58   And then at an angle back behind that is the larger part of the back that's attached via the magnets

00:37:05   on the back, and it's attached to the smart connector. And so you end up, by doing that

00:37:10   and having that fold and the hinge, you end up being able to apply enough pressure that it's

00:37:15   kind of floating over the back part of the case, which moves its center of gravity forward a little

00:37:22   bit, which is good for stability. So, yeah, this is surprising because I think nobody imagined a

00:37:31   floating iPad above a keyboard with a big hinge. - Because it seems too complex. It seems too...

00:37:38   - Complex, thick, potentially heavy, potentially and expensive. And I think what we've seen is,

00:37:45   Apple didn't care about those. Apple wanted to make this thing happen. The instruction here seems

00:37:52   to have been, we wanna make a smart keyboard essentially, or a magic keyboard for an iPad with

00:37:57   a track pad. How do we get that to work and not have it look like the bridge keyboard or have to

00:38:03   build a kickstand on the back of the iPad, like the Surface? And this is what they came up with.

00:38:08   And it seems really inspired. I mean, nobody's actually seen it. We don't know how wobbly it is.

00:38:13   We don't know how solid it is. It's a bit of a mystery. But if it works like we hope it does,

00:38:19   this is, albeit expensive, like pretty amazing bit of engineering. - It is kind of, I mean, honestly,

00:38:30   like I'm blown away by it. Like I'm so excited about it because it is so bizarre and it is so

00:38:36   bold. As a devout iPad user, I love to see something like this. You love to see it,

00:38:45   Jason. - You love to see it. As people who clip on big heavy keyboards onto our iPads from time

00:38:51   to time, it's also to see Apple say, "Yes, not only are we gonna give you cursor support,

00:38:57   which we have to talk about, but we're gonna give you cursor support and a device for an iPad that

00:39:04   has a keyboard and a track pad built into it. Like we are gonna go to the trouble. We think this is

00:39:09   not so strange a thing that we're gonna leave it to third parties. We are gonna build one of these

00:39:15   ourselves." And that's quite a stamp, right? 'Cause that's Apple saying, "This is not a third-party

00:39:22   opportunity," which is code for Apple doesn't care 'cause nobody cares about this except you

00:39:26   weirdos out there. This is, "No, people want to buy this. People are gonna wanna use it this way.

00:39:31   People are gonna wanna use a cursor on their iPad, so we're gonna build one with a track pad on it."

00:39:35   That is like beyond just the engineering of it, the statement that makes that like,

00:39:41   the cursor on an iPad is going to be so mainstream that there needs to be a track pad keyboard

00:39:48   version for the iPad Pro. - 'Cause one of the things that I love about this

00:39:56   is that the smart keyboard, the keyboard was kind of solved, right? You can be super thin,

00:40:06   you can have butterfly switches, and you just cover them with fabric. We can call it done.

00:40:11   And I mean, I don't know about you, but when I was imagining what Apple was going to do,

00:40:18   I figured that they would find a way to build on that keyboard. Like even when knowing about

00:40:24   backlighting, I was like, "Well, they will have some kind of," I didn't ever say it,

00:40:28   but my mind was just like, "Well, they have some kind of semi-transparent fabric

00:40:31   that will allow the light to come through." But to actually put what seems to be essentially the

00:40:39   same keyboard that you can find on Apple's laptops, the Magic Keyboard with the inverted

00:40:45   T arrows and the whole shebang, that's amazing, right? Again, it's like an additional step

00:40:52   making me as a professional user using the iPad feel like my needs are being catered to.

00:40:59   - Yeah. And what they're saying is, "We realize that you are willing to trade some weight and

00:41:09   some thickness for better keys." Like, because the smart keyboard, and I like the smart keyboard,

00:41:15   I think the smart keyboard, Folio or whatever version it is, the fabric keyboard, I think it's

00:41:20   good. I think it's actually kind of a pleasant typing experience, but it is also a solution to

00:41:28   the problem of how do we make this thing as thin and light as possible? And with this keyboard,

00:41:33   it's Apple saying, "Okay, we get it. You want a better keyboard and it doesn't need to be as thin

00:41:39   and light in order to do this for you. So we're gonna make that." And then on top of that, there's,

00:41:44   we also need to move the keyboard up because keep in mind on the smart keyboard, the bottom row of

00:41:49   keys is at the bottom of the device and they have to slide it all up, which is why that thing has to

00:41:54   hang over the keyboard a little bit in this design so that we can put a trackpad. Now, it's not like

00:42:00   a magic trackpad or even a MacBook trackpad-sized thing. It's gonna be much smaller than what modern

00:42:06   Mac users are used to for a trackpad, but they are doing a multi-touch trackpad there. And so that,

00:42:13   you know, that makes it even more of an engineering challenge.

00:42:16   - I would argue that trackpads have maybe gotten too big. And like, I'm not saying that, like,

00:42:21   we should all go to small trackpads, but I have a magic trackpad here. It's much bigger than I need

00:42:26   it to be. - You don't, yeah. Well,

00:42:27   that's what I was gonna say is you don't need it to be big. The value of it being big is that you

00:42:31   don't have to be precise, right? You can put your fingers anywhere on it and just gesture and it

00:42:35   works. Whereas in a small one, the target is smaller and you've got to be more precise and

00:42:40   you've got to fit it inside the boundaries of it. But they don't have that room on this. So they did

00:42:47   what they could. - But like, you know, for me,

00:42:50   I obviously am very excited about this product and I imagine it becoming something that we use a lot,

00:42:55   but it's probably still not going to be the primary way that I use input on my 12.9-inch

00:43:03   iPad Pro. Like, it will be for when I'm not at my desk because it's still a laptop, right? Like,

00:43:09   in that form factor. I'm not going to put a laptop form factor down on my desk and it'd be permanent,

00:43:14   you know? Like, it will be when I would, in theory, be using a laptop, right? So, like,

00:43:20   in different working environments, maybe in different places in the home or the office,

00:43:25   but not like at my permanent desk, which is why I am so happy that they are continuing to expand

00:43:32   the iPad to support so many different input methods because it allows for that flexibility.

00:43:37   - Yeah, this is the thing about the iPad that really is its greatest strength is that it's

00:43:42   what you want when you want it. So if you want a tablet, just a touchscreen tablet with nothing

00:43:47   attached to it, it is that. That's its bare center. That's what it is. It's the naked robotic core,

00:43:54   as John Syracuse would say. And then, like, you want a pencil? Great. You want to attach

00:43:59   a Bluetooth keyboard? Fine. You want to put it in a stand with a keyboard and a trackpad or a mouse?

00:44:03   Yeah, you can do that. You want to make it laptop-y with a keyboard? We got one of those. You want to

00:44:08   make it laptop-y with a keyboard and a trackpad? We got one of those, right? Like, it could be.

00:44:12   So, of course, you aren't going to use it unless you're in a laptop sort of shaped context. But the

00:44:19   beauty of it being not a laptop is that then you move to a different context and it becomes a

00:44:24   different device at that point. You just pull it off the keyboard and now it's something different.

00:44:30   And that's one of the things I love about the iPad is that it is so flexible to be able to do that.

00:44:35   And this just changes that. And yes, it is the classic Apple story, right, which is they make

00:44:40   a first-party accessory that requires software updates to enable something like a cursor.

00:44:46   And it has this side benefit of finally blessing that interaction type for everything else. So,

00:44:53   like, everybody else who's got other iPad accessories or just mice and keyboards and

00:44:59   trackpads that are out there, like, it makes all that stuff better, too. Like,

00:45:03   we can use—and we'll talk about this more in a little bit—but, like, the cursor stuff is there

00:45:08   in beta already and shortly this week, you know, as a final 13.4 iOS release. Like, it's just there.

00:45:17   We don't have to wait till May to use the cursor. It's there now. And everybody who's got a pointing

00:45:23   device they want to attach to their iPad can benefit from that today. And then Apple will have

00:45:28   its hardware in May. - I know we're both dying to talk about the cursor support, so let's just round

00:45:33   up the final thoughts on the Magic Keyboard. A nice touch is that it has the horizontal Apple logo,

00:45:38   which is great. - And the Smart Keyboard Folio, too. The idea that if you're using this iPad

00:45:44   in that configuration, those cases didn't have logos on them before, but they put—they've

00:45:48   a little embossed, like, a little logo on it, and it's in horizontal, which, yes, I had a moment of,

00:45:55   like, I almost took a victory lap around my living room when I saw that, because how long have we

00:46:01   talked about how Apple's branding on the iPad still considers it a portrait device when we tend

00:46:08   to use it, you know, and not everybody does, but I certainly tend to use it almost all the time in

00:46:13   landscape, and you put it in a keyboard case and you're using it in landscape, and then you, you

00:46:17   know, but you turn it on and the Apple is still portrait. Well, a crack in Apple's view of the

00:46:25   iPad is that both of these cases have an Apple logo on the back, and it's pointing the right

00:46:31   direction. It's great. - Yeah, I mean, other stuff is the same, right? Like, the Apple logo on the

00:46:37   iPad itself is still in portrait, but, you know, when it's in those keyboard situations, it's

00:46:44   considered landscape. - Oh, and I should mention, while we're on the accessory front, a complaint

00:46:51   that I've had, it's been on my wish list for a while, the case, the without keyboard smart case,

00:46:59   smart cover, whatever it is, whatever they call it, smart folio, I don't even know what they call

00:47:03   it, the folio case for the iPad Pro, the one that has nothing, it's just magnets on the back,

00:47:08   covers your case in the front, comes in colors. It had one color before, it was like, you know,

00:47:14   remember, originally it was sort of like you could get it in gray or white, and now you can get it in,

00:47:20   like, black or pink or blue or green. Like, there was a long period where Apple seemed to think that

00:47:29   the iPad Pro should never have color on it and it should be as boring as possible, and it was,

00:47:34   a lot of their accessories were super boring, and the keyboard cases are still kind of boring,

00:47:40   although they're a darker gray than they used to be, which I think is good, but there are color

00:47:46   options now that weren't there before. So I, like, immediately went out and ordered a blue case

00:47:50   because I'm very happy to have something that is not boring. - I never use those cases. - I use them

00:48:00   a lot. I actually, that's my primary case for my iPad, is one that has nothing on it,

00:48:05   because if I want to use a keyboard, I'll go get a keyboard and attach it.

00:48:09   I'm, we've already mentioned this, but I want to just, before we move on, like, completely, like,

00:48:17   underscore this point, that this product is available for the 2018 iPad Pro, both sizes,

00:48:26   as well as the 2020 iPad Pro, which is really great if you have a 2018 iPad Pro, because there

00:48:32   may not be that much reason for you to upgrade to a 2020, but I also think it's very clever on

00:48:37   Apple's part, because lots of people are going to buy this that wouldn't have necessarily bought

00:48:43   a new iPad, so they are creating a pretty much $400 device that can be purchased as an upgrade

00:48:52   to a product. Now, that is one of the interesting things you can focus on with iPads as compared to

00:49:02   MacBooks. You can sell people additional things, new things, to attach to their product.

00:49:09   You can't really do that so much with a MacBook Air. - If you're, I mean, and you can do the math

00:49:14   of, like, how many people would update from the 2018 to the 2020 iPad Pro, and again, my gut

00:49:21   feeling is maybe not as many as you would think. It's not that big a change, but you are going to

00:49:28   be able to generate more revenue out of all of those iPad Pro buyers from 2018 and 2019

00:49:34   who are interested in one of these cases, and all of them are compatible with all of the iPad Pros

00:49:40   of this generation, the third and fourth, the second, the one, like, 2018 and 2020. All of them

00:49:46   are. It's just, you know, it's magnets connecting. There's going to be a little more open space

00:49:50   because the camera cutout is bigger, right? So it's not, you can't take your 2018 case to 2020

00:49:55   because it won't fit on the camera bump, but you can go the other direction. And, yeah, they will

00:50:01   be generating more revenue, in the case of a 12.9, you know, a lot more revenue from somebody

00:50:09   without them actually buying a new iPad. - It is the price of a regular iPad. - Yeah, yeah. - And I'm,

00:50:15   look, do not get me wrong. I am not complaining about that. There are options. You don't have to

00:50:20   buy this. Like, you do not need this to use an iPad. Like, I'm happy there are options,

00:50:26   and I want this product. Yes, it's expensive, but it's something that I want in its exact

00:50:32   configuration. If I wanted less, I could go to the smart keyboard, or I could go to Bridge,

00:50:38   or I could go to any company making a keyboard, or I could just not get one at all and just connect

00:50:44   a Magic Keyboard via Bluetooth and use that, right? Like, there are tons of options. - Or a USB

00:50:50   keyboard. - Yeah, and I do. - There are so many options, yes. - I do, right? Like, I connect my

00:50:56   Digma Raise split ergonomic mechanical keyboard via USB. Like, that is what I am typically doing,

00:51:03   because I don't have it in a stand, and I use the keyboard that I want to use. There are many

00:51:08   options available to you, and I am happy that this option is now available. This is a professional

00:51:14   product for a professional user, and I am very excited about that. - Just to be clear, because I

00:51:22   know there was a conversation, there was one you guys had on Connected last week about the room for

00:51:26   third parties here. It's so often that Apple comes out with a product and everybody says, "Well,

00:51:30   all the third parties are dead." And that generally is not the case, because the third parties can

00:51:34   differentiate from Apple and reach the edges, and yes, they're reaching the edge cases instead of

00:51:41   being the primary. So, like, Bridge, with its keyboards, is no longer kind of the primary

00:51:47   purveyor of a laptop-like keyboard for the iPad, because it's going to be Apple for these two

00:51:54   models. But just as a point of reference, they're still going to differentiate. They're a more

00:52:00   expensive keyboard with Trackpad that Bridge is shipping next month, they say. 120 bucks cheaper

00:52:08   for the 12.9. - And, I mean, I have spent some time thinking about this, because at first I was

00:52:13   like, "Oh, they're done, and I'm going to cancel my order." But I have spent more time thinking

00:52:17   about this since, and I feel like I overreacted to that on Connected for that reason. But also,

00:52:22   this is a very different form factor, what Bridge are making compared to what Apple are making,

00:52:29   and that laptop form factor, I know that works in the situation that it works.

00:52:34   The magic keyboard for iPad, I don't know how it's going to work in every situation yet,

00:52:40   because it's a very different design. - We don't know. There may be some very clear

00:52:45   differences in how they work versus something like the Bridge, which makes it into a more traditional

00:52:49   laptop shape, and we just, we don't know what it weighs, we don't know how stable it is, who knows?

00:52:54   - Which is better, on a tray table or on an airplane? I don't know yet. So one thing,

00:52:59   I actually have, I'm keeping my order of my Bridge Pro Plus, because I want to be able to compare

00:53:06   them to inform our listeners about such things. - Right, yeah, we'll find out what the differences

00:53:11   are as these products roll out, but I do think there's going to be a place for third-party stuff.

00:53:14   Plus, keep in mind, there's also a lot of iPads that don't work with this keyboard. It's only for

00:53:21   these iPad Pros in 2018 and 2020, and we saw that Apple and Logitech made an announcement about a

00:53:27   case for other iPads, but the door is open for all iPads to have keyboard and trackpad support.

00:53:35   The keyboard support's been there, but now there's cursor support. So there are lots of different

00:53:39   options that are going to be out there. Apple is going to be the most commonly chosen one,

00:53:44   because it's right there, but there's going to be some other stuff going on that is at the edges

00:53:50   that is not what Apple is doing. And price is a great example. Like, seriously, people look at

00:53:55   that Bridge keyboard and they think, "Wow, that must be really expensive," but it's always been

00:53:59   cheaper than the smart keyboard. And this one, the Pro Plus with the trackpad, is going to be

00:54:05   100-plus dollars cheaper than Apple's keyboard with trackpad. So I'm sure it'll be heavier and

00:54:11   thicker too, but it's cheaper. So, you know, there's room, and we'll see what the market does,

00:54:18   but there's room. Sometimes when Apple swoops in with a new product and that's bad for third

00:54:22   parties, but they're also blessing that concept, right, if that makes any sense. So, like,

00:54:27   it's bad that Apple's making a keyboard and trackpad for the iPad for Bridge, because they

00:54:32   were making it, and they were probably the most recommended one, and now Apple's going to take a

00:54:37   lot of the oxygen out of the room with their product. However, Bridge no longer has to make

00:54:42   the case that it makes sense to have a trackpad and a keyboard on an iPad, because Apple has

00:54:47   basically made that case. Apple has blessed the concept, and that makes a difference. So that's

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00:57:41   iOS 13.4 cursor support. So you may not be able to get the Magic Trackpad keyboard.

00:57:50   I'm never going to get that name right. But you can get cursor support with probably products,

00:57:56   existing things that you already own, shipping this week. Probably by the time you're hearing

00:58:01   this, you will be able to update to iOS 13.4. I downloaded the developer beta and updated.

00:58:08   So I was able to check that out. And so I've been playing with it for best part of four or five

00:58:16   days. The best support for this cursor mode is in the Magic Trackpad 2. Any mouse will work great.

00:58:23   We could talk about that a little bit more. But the Magic Trackpad 2, the original Magic Trackpad,

00:58:30   not so much. But the Magic Trackpad 2, as well as supporting the cursor, also has

00:58:34   tons of gestures. There was a demo video from Craig Federighi at Apple Park, which I've seen

00:58:41   put on the Six Colors YouTube channel, which has seen great success in viewer numbers, Jason. I'm

00:58:46   sure you're very excited about that. Yeah, well, they didn't post it on their YouTube channel. I

00:58:50   don't know why. And then everybody was like, "Oh, hey, The Verge has this exclusive video with Craig

00:58:54   Federighi." And I'm like, "That's in the press kit. That's not exclusive." And so I just posted

00:58:58   it on YouTube and put it in my story. And yeah, whatever. People are like, "Why is this on this

00:59:05   random YouTube channel?" It's like, "Ask Apple. I don't know. They just gave me the video. So I

00:59:09   posted it." Thank you, 800,000 viewers. Yeah. I mean, and this is clearly a video that is ripped

00:59:17   from a presentation that would have been given. Yeah, it's his on-stage demo. Yeah. And I really

00:59:24   do. So leading up to these potential products being announced, there was a lot of conversation,

00:59:30   right, about are they going to have an event? Is there enough to have an event? I really do think

00:59:35   that the Magic Keyboard was event-worthy, as well as the trackpad and cursor support in general. But

00:59:41   this whole thing, I think, would have been a very, very big story to tell about the continued

00:59:46   advancement of the iPad Pro. But you do get to see the gestures in this video. You also get glimpses

00:59:52   of the Magic Keyboard. Jason, will you allow me a few minutes to talk about how excited I am about

00:59:57   the cursor support having used it now for a few days? Yes, I will allow it. Go ahead. So we have

01:00:02   spent a lot of time talking about this. And I think what Apple have given us is the literal

01:00:06   best case scenario that we could have ever asked for. We were talking about like, "Oh,

01:00:11   will we maybe just get support for editing text, but down the line, we'll get everything."

01:00:18   Maybe they'll just say, "Oh, hey, use accessibility and you'll be fine." But no,

01:00:23   out of nowhere, Apple dropped in 13.4 an absolute complete overhaul of the cursor support and beefing

01:00:32   it up to places that I don't think we could have imagined. So the cursor is now a tiny little

01:00:38   semi-transparent circle, which is really, really cool. Much smaller than the Assistive Touch circle.

01:00:45   Way smaller. Way smaller. I don't know what you think, but it's just the size of a cursor,

01:00:51   like the regular arrow cursor, which is a different shape.

01:00:53   No, we're going to talk about this a lot, but I will say it is... What they did, there were the

01:01:01   rumors about like, "Oh, they're going to have an arrow cursor and a watch cursor or whatever."

01:01:04   Just like the Mac. That's not what it is. This is a modern

01:01:11   reconception of what a cursor should behave like. This is a new take on a cursor that Apple is doing

01:01:17   here. It starts with the circle and it goes from there. I will mention my favorite feature of the

01:01:22   circle, if you haven't tried this yet, is you get this semi-transparent circle, you get this thing.

01:01:27   It's like, "Okay, well, I've got this darkish circle and then I move over a dark area. Do I

01:01:32   lose it? Do I lose track of it?" Sometimes that even happens on the Mac is that you lose track of

01:01:35   it. That's why the arrow has the white around it, the white outline. That's not what they do.

01:01:42   The system detects when you're over dark things and makes the cursor light. When they're over

01:01:50   light things, it makes the cursor dark. The cursor changes based on what it's over.

01:01:57   There are a bunch of animations when it changes to different things. The level of detail

01:02:05   that went into creating this cursor is bananas. They sweated some cursor details that they

01:02:15   probably didn't need to sweat. As a Mac user, of course, you move the pointer over text and it just

01:02:22   turns into an I-beam. It just clicks. It's now a different kind of cursor.

01:02:29   On iOS, every cursor change that I could see is animated. There are in-between states. It animates

01:02:36   into morphs into a different cursor. It's just like, "They didn't need to do that."

01:02:41   But it's beautiful. But it's so great. I agree. If you were creating a cursor from scratch today,

01:02:48   this is what you would end up with. Something like this. Where you're not using these what

01:02:54   are now decades-old interpretations of how these things should look. They don't need to look like

01:03:01   that. It doesn't need to be a pointing arrow. It's just not necessary. It can be whatever you want it

01:03:07   to be. What Apple's done is it adapts in different scenarios. As you are scrolling across, scroll the

01:03:15   cursor across an app icon, it snaps to it a little bit and will let you easily click the app icon.

01:03:21   It's got this behavior that's interesting that is taken from tvOS, where when the cursor is over

01:03:28   something, a button, an app icon, whatever, the cursor disappears, but the whole item lifts up.

01:03:36   And then as you move your pointing device, it gets that parallax effect like you're moving it.

01:03:42   And then if you keep moving, it breaks out and then the cursor reappears.

01:03:48   Which some people are like, "Well, I'm really confused by that." I actually think most people

01:03:53   will totally get it, but there is actually a setting. I think it's an accessibility.

01:03:58   There is actually a setting where you can just say, "Always show me the cursor," even when I'm

01:04:02   highlighting an item. So for people who are distracted by that, but it's such a nice touch

01:04:07   of saying, "You're not just hovering over this button. You are the button."

01:04:11   >> And it also will attach itself to buttons inside of applications, which is nice. So if you,

01:04:20   for example, got a plus button to open a new tab in Safari, as you hover over it, it attaches to it,

01:04:26   so you can click it really easily. But it also does this for system things. So the little pill,

01:04:31   which is in the middle of two split-screen applications, it will attach to that.

01:04:36   It will attach to the home indicator. What I like about this kind of magnetic attaching of the cursor

01:04:42   is it doesn't require as much precision. You can kind of just be in the area and you'll get what

01:04:49   you need. >> Exactly. Exactly. Because they've definitely given this a lot of thought.

01:04:53   >> The way that text selection works has changed. And I almost at this point can see why Apple made

01:05:02   so many changes to text selection in iOS 13, which on the whole made it way harder to deal

01:05:09   with text selection on the iPad by touch, but has made it way nicer now for the for trackpad stuff.

01:05:18   >> Yeah, they just need to watch it, right? They need to make sure that you shouldn't sacrifice

01:05:23   touch usability for pointer usability, right? So I think that's something that they need to watch and

01:05:28   revisit how it works. >> For sure. In iOS 14. But this basically what happens is you hover over

01:05:36   text, it just turns into a little I-beam and you can just click and select the text. And I love it.

01:05:41   And it's at the moment is a very inconsistent experience on iOS. This is one that, you know,

01:05:47   they say like the cursor stuff works pretty much everywhere. But we have a lot of applications

01:05:53   that text selection is going to need to be tweaked and adopted by developers. Like for example, in

01:05:59   Google Docs, it does not work. And I will give you a tip right now. If you are not finding that

01:06:05   the cursor is changing here, think of your cursor as your finger. So double click on a word and then

01:06:11   you can drag the little typical blue highlighter. >> Yeah, it's not great. It's actually very

01:06:17   similar to the experience was that I hated using a system touch to edit text where you get a cursor

01:06:22   that's not, you want the text editing behavior and the text editing cursor. And it does seem to

01:06:27   be like the more custom your text editor is on iOS, the less it will be supported by this. So like,

01:06:36   I use one writer, it has pretty standard text editing support. It works fine. Pages has to be

01:06:42   updated. And, you know, it's nice because the pages developers presumably knew that this was coming.

01:06:48   Whereas if you're the developer of a different text editor that you're going to have to scramble

01:06:52   to try and get it, do an update to support this cursor. But a lot of apps will pick it up

01:06:59   just automatically. >> There are lots of swiping gestures throughout the system now. So you can

01:07:06   swipe up to go home. You can swipe up further to enter app expose. You can swipe left and right

01:07:14   between apps as well. >> Yeah. And if you're using the Magic Trackpad too, it's just completely

01:07:21   natural. Like all of the multi-touch gestures and including the iPad version of them, like you said,

01:07:27   where it's sort of like you start up, if you flip up, it goes to the home screen. If you slowly go

01:07:32   up, it will pop into multitasking view just as if your finger was on the iPad doing that same

01:07:37   gesture. It's just, they really did a good idea or did a good job. And then swiping back and forth

01:07:42   between apps is a really natural gesture. Again, a gesture I make on the screen all the time that I

01:07:48   can make on the trackpad and it does the same thing. So with Assistive Touch and MICE support,

01:07:53   you were able to kind of assign buttons to do different actions, you know, like maybe to open

01:08:01   the multitasking or to bring up the dock. This is not a function in the new iOS 13.4 kind of top

01:08:09   level trackpad and mouse options. But you can actually go back into accessibility and turn on

01:08:16   Assistive Touch and assign these buttons to MICE as you would have before and doesn't change anything.

01:08:22   You don't then get an Assistive Touch cursor. It just keeps the mouse cursor as it was. So

01:08:27   if you're deciding, if you want to use a mouse with this and want to be able to, for example,

01:08:32   I don't know, click in the scroll wheel and go home, you can still turn those buttons on and

01:08:36   it doesn't actually change your experience in any way, which I really like. You can also then,

01:08:41   there's another thing like throwing the cursor, the screen edges will do things. So you can kind

01:08:46   of like throw it down to the bottom to bring up the dock, throw it up to the top and get notification

01:08:51   center, top right for control center and the right-hand side for slide over. And there's a

01:08:55   very particular behavior here that I really like, which is this idea of pushing further. So what

01:09:01   they don't want to have happen is that if you move your cursor to the right side of the screen,

01:09:08   you know, you slide it over there and slide over pops out. You're like, no, no, no, I don't want

01:09:13   to do that. I just wanted to move, click on something over on the right side of the screen.

01:09:16   So it's trying to sense what your intent is. And one way you express your intent that you want to

01:09:23   bring up control center or notification center or the dock or slide over is you move your cursor

01:09:27   to that side or that corner, and then you push through, right? So you move it over there and then

01:09:33   you push further out. It's like almost like a second gesture and it does exactly what you would

01:09:41   expect it to do. Now, in some instances, you're also highlighting an item like the home indicator

01:09:46   or items up in the status bar that you can just click on that will bring those things down.

01:09:53   But you can also just kind of push further, push your cursor out beyond the edge of the screen.

01:10:00   And that functions as a gesture. And one of my personal favorite things here, Jason, is that you

01:10:05   can have multiple pointing devices paired to an iPad and use them both. So I can and have been,

01:10:13   which I love, I can use a mouse in my right hand, trackpad on my left hand, and you can use them

01:10:18   both at the exact same time. Yeah, I'm not a dual wielder like that, but it's a big deal for you.

01:10:25   And it's great that you can do that. So I'm very, very excited about being able to do that because

01:10:30   it helps with my with my RSI to be able to rotate things quickly and not like, you know, to be able

01:10:37   to like, I don't know, I can do the swiping with my left hand and the point of control my right hand.

01:10:42   And it's been a great help for me with my Mac over the years. Right now I have a Wacom tablet,

01:10:47   a trackpad and a mouse where I'm sitting here at my iPad Pro. And now when I my iMac Pro, I should

01:10:54   say, and then when I go to my iPad Pro, now I have another trackpad and another mouse. And that works

01:10:58   great for me. And I'm really happy that I have that flexibility again with one of my, if not my

01:11:03   most important computer. So this whole thing is absolutely fantastic. I am so excited about it.

01:11:12   It is completely changing the way that I use my iPad all over again. And I am so enthused by this.

01:11:18   I'm so happy that Apple have done it. Like, my heart goes out to the people behind this

01:11:25   project at Apple because I cannot imagine that it was an easy one to get to fruition. And

01:11:32   I am so thankful for it. Because, you know, I consider myself a big professional user of the

01:11:40   iPad, right? Like I am on the thin end of the wedge here. And this is something I want. And

01:11:47   it seems like lots of people now who use the iPad to the level that I use it, right, you and Federico

01:11:54   and many more want that flexibility of being able to have an iPad at a desk. Because once you get

01:11:59   used to a thing, you want to be able to use it more and more with all of the tools that you want

01:12:04   at your disposal. And adding this into the system is going to be a big kick. And like, it's such a

01:12:10   good reason to have iPad OS exist in the first place. And I'm so pleased that they've not waited

01:12:16   until iOS 14 for this. Like they had it, they were ready, they were done, they shipped it. And I think

01:12:22   it's awesome. I'm so happy. Yep, same. And this could maybe open up some different use cases for

01:12:29   iPad OS apps in general. Like I'm really keen to see if or what changes could come of iOS 14 and

01:12:37   how it could maybe change development, like what it could mean for the future of the iPad in general.

01:12:43   And talking to some developers about this, you know, there are going to be new APIs that aren't

01:12:49   out yet, which is annoying because the OS is going to ship. But like, when you've got a cursor,

01:12:55   you can have what's called a hover state, which is that software knows that there's a cursor hanging

01:12:59   over it. And you don't have that with a finger, right? The finger is either touching the screen

01:13:02   or it's not. And you see it in places like Safari with its desktop browsing. Like web pages often

01:13:11   have a mouseover state or a hover state. Well, you could support that now when a cursor is present.

01:13:17   Apps can do that too. So they can put up like little tool tips and stuff. They can behave

01:13:23   differently. And my understanding is that some of the same stuff that you would do to make a

01:13:27   catalyst app on the Mac will be able to be used by this in cursor mode on an iPad. So it's all kind

01:13:34   of like coming together. So apps can be a lot smarter about this in this mode. Again, the base

01:13:40   mode of an iPad is that it's a touch tablet. So that should not, you should never download an app

01:13:45   and have it say, "You really need a keyboard and a mouse for this app on an iPad." Like that should

01:13:51   not happen. And those apps should be rejected from the app store probably, unless there's a very good

01:13:56   use case that requires them. But I'm even more excited about what this means for hardware, right?

01:14:02   Like this is potentially like Federico uses an external monitor for his iPad. And iPadOS 13.4

01:14:14   does not change external monitor support on the iPad. He's using a mirrored view of his iPad

01:14:21   screen. But you can see how you don't need to do that anymore, right? Like how an iPad could now

01:14:28   have either run in lid closed mode or have a second display with apps on it. Because when

01:14:35   you're driving with a keyboard and a mouse, you don't need a touch screen. You don't need anything.

01:14:39   It also means that Apple could make a Surface Studio-like device. It means Apple could make a

01:14:44   laptop or a big iPad of some kind. And you've got options now in how you build those things

01:14:51   running iPadOS. - You know, I don't like to say the future of computing, but I'm just going to

01:14:57   invoke it here for this period. Like this feels more to me like a future computer because it can

01:15:05   be so many different things. - Yeah, and I would say because Apple's trying to do things differently

01:15:11   still, like the give up would have been just to put the old Mac Aero cursor on it, right? But

01:15:16   they spent the time to reconceive of what a cursor would be like on a device like this.

01:15:21   - Or to make a keyboard that had, you know, one side of it was a case and you just slot your iPad

01:15:28   into the case and now it's a laptop, right? That was the easy way to make the Magic Keyboard,

01:15:33   but they didn't do that. They tried to do something different. - Yeah, so it is exciting and,

01:15:39   you know, we'll see where it goes from here. I've talked about this before, but I just want to

01:15:44   mention one of the things that happened in a bunch of stories that I saw when this happened was

01:15:48   Apple admits, the headlines go, that Microsoft was right and the Surface was right and the iPad was

01:15:54   wrong. And like some of those stories, The Verge has a story like that that's by Tom Warren that's

01:15:59   actually really good. The headline is kind of click-baity garbage. The story is actually quite

01:16:04   good. Talking about the different challenges that Apple and Microsoft have had trying to get to these

01:16:09   new devices. And like, of course, Surface was all about you need to have a keyboard and a mouse

01:16:17   because Microsoft's entire strength was in traditional PC operating systems and apps.

01:16:21   And they were trying to build a next generation touch tablet computer from a position of strength

01:16:27   in traditional non-touch, non-tablet computers. Apple, because of its success with the iPhone,

01:16:35   came at it from the other perspective, which was, we have a thing we designed to be little and have

01:16:39   touch and not have any computer things at all. And now we've got a bigger one and it probably

01:16:44   should be more PC-like, but it has nothing to do that. So we're going to have to sort of

01:16:50   start from way over here on the touch tablet side and try to push back in terms of functionality to

01:16:56   something that, like more PC power. Microsoft has been struggling with the other direction,

01:17:01   which is they've got some good hardware and they've got the PC side, but how do you make

01:17:09   the Surface a good touch first tablet? And the truth is that they have tried again and again

01:17:15   and again because their user base just wants to use a PC. They're like, I use Microsoft stuff

01:17:21   because I have PC apps and I want a keyboard and a mouse, and it's been hard. So they're both

01:17:26   — I think Microsoft and Apple are both trying to reach this promised land and they're both

01:17:30   handicapped by their success, if that makes any sense. They are limited by the thing that makes

01:17:36   them strong because it prevents them from moving as quickly to the center. And they're both headed

01:17:44   for the same place, I would argue. I think where it's right in saying Microsoft was ahead of Apple

01:17:50   in knowing where it wanted to go, I think there's some truth in the sense that I think Apple got

01:17:55   caught up in its propaganda maybe a little bit in a cultural thing about what the iPad was not.

01:18:04   And like, oh, we shouldn't do X on the iPad, files on the iPad, because we've decided that we're

01:18:10   elevated. We shouldn't do external USB storage on the iPad because we've evolved to not need files

01:18:18   anymore and not need USB keychain drives anymore. It's just like, it wasn't true. And they had to

01:18:22   get past a lot of that, and I think they gave up years of lead over Microsoft by getting caught

01:18:29   up in that. But that said, and if you read Tom Warren's story in The Verge, he basically makes

01:18:35   the same point, that said, Apple's still the one to beat here because Apple is getting momentum

01:18:41   on the iPad now, and it is coming from a purer, clearer place because they started with the next

01:18:49   generation device and are now adding functionality to it. And Microsoft has shown repeatedly over

01:18:55   more than a decade that although the people at Microsoft who build this stuff know exactly what

01:19:00   they want to do and have done some really great work, the challenge is that their customers

01:19:08   don't want to go with them. And it's happened time and again, and so that's a real challenge for them.

01:19:15   So, I think it's way more complicated than just, oh well, once you see a pencil, then Surface was

01:19:21   right. Once you see a mouse, Surface was right. It's not quite right. Of course, Surface wanted

01:19:28   to do those things. That was their strength. Apple was coming from a totally different world where

01:19:33   there were no files or devices or anything. It was a big iPhone world, and they've been struggling,

01:19:39   and anyone who uses the iPad knows they've been struggling for years. And I think somebody tweeted

01:19:45   to me this week, they're like, "Do you think Apple finally has realized what the iPad is?"

01:19:48   And it's like, well, I think they realized it a while ago because we've seen the smart keyboard

01:19:52   and the Apple Pencil and files app and all of these things. We're seeing it. There was that

01:20:00   five years before that where they just refused to do anything. -

01:20:06   And I also think that, like, you know, it's like in the same way that you wouldn't have said just

01:20:11   because the Surface existed that Apple were right, you know, just because Microsoft decided to make

01:20:18   another tablet product. I mean, they've been doing tablet PC for longer, right? - For years. Yeah,

01:20:23   Bill Gates knew that a tablet was a really interesting thing in 2000. It's just that

01:20:27   the world and the technology and users, nobody was ready for it back then.

01:20:32   - Where are Apple's Pro apps? Give me logic. - Yep. Xcode, logic, Final Cut Pro.

01:20:40   This MKBHD did a tweet this last week that was dead on, which is like, "Okay, great, Apple.

01:20:46   Where's Final Cut for the iPad?" It's like, this is a Pro iPad. It's like, you can buy,

01:20:51   kit it out, $1,300. It's the cost of a MacBook Pro. It's got incredible performance,

01:20:58   faster than most PCs, most mobile PCs. And where are the apps? Like, I think it's just,

01:21:05   there's the question. Where is Xcode? Where's Final Cut? Where is logic? If this is a Pro system,

01:21:12   why is Apple's own Pro software support non-existent? You know, I think we just got a name

01:21:18   and shame every now and then when they do something like this. It's like, it's great. You know, one

01:21:22   major Pro software vendor that isn't supporting the iPad? It's Apple. There's no excuse.

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01:22:48   Pingdom from Soloins for their support of this show and Relay FM. So you spent some time with

01:22:54   the brand new MacBook Air. I did. I did. I've got one right here and I wrote a review and everything.

01:23:00   I think that your headline to the review "No news is good news" tells a really good story of what's

01:23:06   going on here because you know everything was great about the 2018 Air except for you know

01:23:12   there could have been it could have been a bit cheaper should have had a different keyboard

01:23:16   maybe could have had more options for expanding it and they did all of that in 2020 right?

01:23:22   Steve McLaughlin Yeah I mean I titled my review "No news is good news" and that's basically

01:23:26   it which is "Hey you know that old MacBook Air? Hey you know that keyboard from the 2016 MacBook

01:23:31   Pro?" Well there you go. The MacBook Air was already the laptop that I recommended to people

01:23:38   who wanted a Mac laptop. It was already like this is the Mac everybody should get and Apple said

01:23:41   it's the best-selling Mac model. It's issues where it's price and it's keyboard and now it starts at

01:23:50   $999 and it's got the magic keyboard and then in addition to that it remember it only had the one

01:23:56   processor and they've changed to offer three different processors and you can get them in

01:24:00   any configuration you don't have to like buy the high-end one with lots and lots of SSD in order

01:24:05   to get the expensive processor. It's all to play for. You can get any with any configuration.

01:24:11   But they have a an i3 that's a dual core and that's the base model and so you could argue that

01:24:17   the hundred dollar price cut is basically a lower speed processor. It's an i3 dual core

01:24:24   so they've sort of made a tier below the 1099 which is fine. That's how Microsoft got theirs

01:24:31   under their MacBook Air equivalent under a thousand was that it was really underpowered

01:24:35   and under understoraged and that's actually kind of funny because the MacBook Air now starts at $256

01:24:41   instead of $128 which is great. It's much more usable at $256 in terms of storage but add on

01:24:47   another hundred bucks and you get a quad core the first time quad core i5 in the MacBook Air and then

01:24:55   you can if you add on $250 you get a quad core i7 and both of the quad core processors also have more

01:25:04   graphics. I forget what they call it's like graphics units or something like that so the

01:25:07   graphics performance is also improved on those models not just the CPU performance. So it's I

01:25:13   mean they're all Intel on board graphics they're not going to be spectacular but they're okay.

01:25:16   And so yeah I mean like really it on the outside it looks almost no different it's it's so thin

01:25:24   it's thicker in a way that you cannot tell and it's heavier in a way that you cannot feel.

01:25:29   So it's essentially exactly the same. But you would never notice them in daily use right?

01:25:35   It's it's it's minute minute and the battery quote of battery life is actually down a little bit

01:25:39   but again I think they are trading for power and it's a is it exciting? No I mean the excitement

01:25:49   was when they did the MacBook Air in 2018 18 months ago same time they did those iPad pros

01:25:53   they did the MacBook Air and it was that Brooklyn event and that was exciting because that new

01:25:58   product existed. This is just a bump but in a lot of good ways like it fixes you know it addresses

01:26:06   all the issues and then some with that older model. So now I would unequivocally recommend this

01:26:13   laptop as the Mac that people should buy if they're looking for a Mac to buy. We have two

01:26:17   of the old one in the house right now but like and I like it but all of its issues have basically

01:26:24   been fixed with this that I think are relevant. We can you know plenty of other podcasts can debate

01:26:29   whether laptops should have SD card slots or not. I'm not going to do that I think two USB-C ports

01:26:34   is is good enough for a 999 laptop and it's a nice laptop I like it a lot. Happy with I mean

01:26:42   the keyboard it's the same keyboard does it I assume it feels just the same as it does on a 16

01:26:48   inch? Yeah yeah it's doesn't have as much travel as on the old MacBook Air non-retina MacBook Airs

01:26:52   and I still have one of those and that feels a little bit better but it's good it's good it's

01:26:56   just like the 16 inch MacBook Pro it's a real keyboard with a millimeter of travel and after

01:27:02   the butterfly keyboard you know and some people don't care I asked my wife to try them both

01:27:06   because she uses the butterfly keyboard on there and she's like well whatever like some people do

01:27:10   not care but if you do care the point is some people do care and yeah what you want to do is

01:27:15   make something that everybody kind of like is fine with on your Apple laptops and they seem to have

01:27:20   done that. But I guess the important part I think is even if you don't care reliability improvements

01:27:29   if they are there and they are significant and I think at this point it seems like the 16 inch

01:27:35   MacBook Pro keyboard has been an improvement there on reliability. Whether you notice or not the

01:27:42   difference in your keyboard the absence of requiring to take it back into the Apple store

01:27:49   every six months will be a much better feeling overall right like you don't know that your

01:27:54   keyboard is more reliable if you're not paying attention but you'll really know if it isn't right

01:28:00   and and so I think that there's a good thing in that where it's like well you go back to that

01:28:04   keyboard so then people can have the reliability that they were used to and I think that's a big

01:28:09   win for everybody right? Yeah for sure. Now the yeah we said 999 is the start it also starts with

01:28:19   double the storage 256 gigabytes you can get it for 899 in education and you can go all the way

01:28:24   up to a two terabyte SSD and four core CPU stuff as you said now. I think all that's really great

01:28:28   it's still not as powerful as the iPad Pro and Geekbench scores which is funny. It continues to

01:28:34   be promising for a potential ARM future and so I think that's interesting and you already mentioned

01:28:40   right like this is an easy recommendation to people now as a machine right like this is easily

01:28:47   slot back in there as like there isn't a caveat now it's just like yeah you should get that one.

01:28:53   Yeah it's this is the one to get I mean it's that simple like I no longer have to say well you know

01:28:59   does the keyboard bother you or maybe there'll be a new keyboard it's like no this is the one get

01:29:02   this one it's gonna please everybody well not everybody maybe not everybody out there listening

01:29:07   but it's it's a crowd pleaser this is a this is the center of the Mac world even more than it was

01:29:12   last time. Are you surprised that this came before the 14-inch MacBook Pro? So my feeling on this to

01:29:24   answer the question I asked is yes but in hindsight no. Yeah well it is the most popular Mac right so

01:29:30   getting it turned over makes sense but we were all worried that Apple was gonna be like shady

01:29:34   and do something weird like you know oh no you have to wait MacBook Air you just you get the cheap

01:29:39   lousy keyboard and everybody in the MacBook Pro gets the expensive nice keyboard and that didn't

01:29:44   happen. Exactly right like we were all expecting the 14-inch MacBook Pro or a different MacBook

01:29:50   Pro because the 16 was already done so we're like oh obviously that's next but it does make more

01:29:56   sense for many reasons to to make the to improve the Air first because it is the most selling and

01:30:04   for all we know the 13-inch MacBook Pro actually sells less than the other two we I mean we don't

01:30:09   know and we assume Apple's putting its resources behind the decisions that makes the most sense.

01:30:15   I still expect we will see it an update to that MacBook Pro I don't know when now like I really

01:30:21   can't put my money on when I would expect that to be because a window has closed now but I'm happy

01:30:29   to see the MacBook Air get this treatment because it has now reasserted itself as the easy

01:30:35   recommendation for a laptop where you know like it was it's been a while right without caveats

01:30:42   like the MacBook Air was amazing and then it became old then it got refreshed but it was too

01:30:47   expensive and was lacking some updates that it still required but now it has slotted itself back

01:30:52   into the price that it should be at with all of the features that you want and has made it just

01:30:57   like a very very cool machine and so yeah I expect at least one of those will find its way into our

01:31:04   home before the end of the year for sure. Speaking of laptops though Jason I have been using a 16-inch

01:31:12   MacBook Pro for a little bit because Apple lent me to try out and I wanted to talk about my

01:31:18   experiences having used that machine for a while because I think I may have some opinions about

01:31:26   this computer that most people would not have and I thought it might be interesting to share.

01:31:31   Yeah go ahead. So it's massive uh of which you know I have not used a laptop of this size in a

01:31:38   while if ever I don't think I've ever owned no I've never owned a 15 I've always been 13 so

01:31:43   it's a very very big machine the screen is huge and great and honestly like I feel like ergonomics

01:31:50   aside a 16-inch laptop screen I could use that as my only computer like it's enough right like

01:31:58   it definitely isn't if things are more cramped but like I could get by with that like it's

01:32:03   I think kind of at the point where it's usable as your only screen so all of that's great

01:32:10   keyboards great speakers are amazing they do produce a really rich sound I think if you

01:32:16   have me walk into a room with my eyes closed and told me it was a home pod I would believe you

01:32:22   like we have a large office where I was playing in right like a 600 feet square room

01:32:29   and it was filling that space comfortably not at full volume it's like really great

01:32:35   but the main thing that I wanted to talk about Jason was my feeling about the touch bar so

01:32:43   this is the first time I've ever used the touch bar outside of just seeing somebody else's or

01:32:50   going to an apple store and I kind of had some some feelings about it that and some things I

01:32:57   noticed on it that I didn't expect and I wanted to share them for people that also may have never

01:33:01   used one so there were things that the touch bar was doing that I hadn't expected it to do so like

01:33:06   for example when you get a dialogue box pop up with like you know like okay or cancel the buttons

01:33:12   the okay and cancel buttons show on the touch bar right and I actually kind of liked this because

01:33:20   my hands are on the keyboard they're there I could just hit those buttons rather than use the track

01:33:24   pad for that like that felt kind of natural to me and as an iPad user I'm kind of always reaching

01:33:33   up for a screen at times and this was like a nice thing where like you know like maybe if I'm using

01:33:38   the track pad my I could kind of just hit the button with my other hand like that kind of worked

01:33:44   quite nicely for me I like the the shortcut buttons that you see in apps like notes you know

01:33:50   like the the shortcut buttons that I'm used to seeing on the quick type bar right like the bold

01:33:56   and italics and stuff like that like all of those were there and I could use them the same as having

01:34:00   an emoji picker was really useful you recommended better touch tool to me uh-huh as as something to

01:34:07   to be able to really tinker around with to make the uh the the touch bar even better and oh boys

01:34:15   there are a lot of interesting stuff in there like I was able to replicate all of my doc in there and

01:34:20   set up a bunch of macros and stuff that I could trigger so like I have one for like recording

01:34:26   which would open a bunch of applications press record an audio hijack right and you could just

01:34:30   have that button permanently there for me to tap whenever I want I was like oh that's really

01:34:36   interesting right like you can do some some very very powerful things with the touch bar by using

01:34:42   an app like the touch tool and and I really like that I thought that was really cool yeah my

01:34:47   question remains why apple hasn't done more with it but it is nice that something like better touch

01:34:51   tool is there to make it much better um I really liked audio scrubbing that was nice to have I

01:34:58   scrub audio a lot and being able to use the touch bar for that felt much more natural than trying to

01:35:04   like hover a cursor over a a button and then use a trackpad like it felt much more natural for me

01:35:11   to be able to just scrub the audio with my finger but it wasn't perf it was not a perfect experience

01:35:17   by any stretch of the imagination I found myself accidentally triggering notification center a lot

01:35:23   because it was on the top right and I found out that in what I was doing very frequently instead

01:35:28   of pressing delete I was hitting that area and it would just swipe the notification center in

01:35:33   or just resting my hands on the keyboard I would hit something that I didn't mean to

01:35:37   and I did also have the key control strip area become completely unresponsive like the top right

01:35:43   area where you kind of have your brightness or your volume and I had to google and use terminal

01:35:50   commands to to kind of reboot it which was not great that's not very user-friendly by any stretch

01:35:57   of the imagination but I would say overall like I really enjoyed having this feature on a laptop

01:36:06   now if I was buying a laptop to use as a laptop and I'll get into why I say that in a moment

01:36:14   I think I would want a MacBook Pro over a MacBook Air for the touch bar like huh I for me

01:36:22   it definitely had frustrations but it adds way more than it took away like I was able to have

01:36:30   more functionality available to me like even just something like the emoji picker and audio scrubbing

01:36:37   and being able to hit the occasional confirm dialogue button I really liked those things like

01:36:43   they were not taking away they were adding to my experience I did not find myself getting

01:36:48   distracted by it like I know some people do because I am not a touch typist I look at the

01:36:55   keyboard when I type and so for me it wasn't taking like wasn't like in my peripheral vision

01:37:01   like if I but like if I was going to be buying a laptop to use on a desk or to use around like I

01:37:07   would definitely consider buying a MacBook Pro for this feature now the problem is my next laptop

01:37:16   I am planning to get as a machine that will be used when traveling like I currently do

01:37:24   like for editing and for recording but also to power my editing area my editing desk and

01:37:30   workstation in my new studio and then to have my iMac Pro on a separate desk which doesn't have all

01:37:37   of the sound like the extreme sound isolation that I am working on around the recording desk and then

01:37:42   I will edit on my iMac Pro using all of its power but I don't need that much power or flexibility on

01:37:49   a recording area so it's on a laptop so this machine will actually be elevated in an evasive

01:37:56   stand like it's not going to be on the desk with me so that at least that's the plan so it's like

01:38:02   well maybe I but I don't need the touch bar in that instance so I haven't completely decided

01:38:06   where I'll go yet but I just wanted to kind of say that I was super surprised about how much I

01:38:13   enjoyed the touch bar like it made the MacBook Pro a more pleasant device to use for me because of its

01:38:20   because of its existence which is not what I would have expected because everybody that I know

01:38:25   doesn't like it but I really did like it so I wanted to kind of share that because it's different

01:38:33   and it's you know these things are different strokes for different folks and for me like

01:38:37   just the base functionality of that was really nice I also have used Catalina for the first time Jason

01:38:43   uh-huh there's lots of dialogue boxes in Catalina didn't like it did not like it things weird things

01:38:50   are happening like I got a prompt in 1Password for 1Password wants to record my screen which I'm

01:38:55   sure it doesn't but like what did it actually want to do it does want to record your screen because

01:39:00   it wants to be able to put that little thing over a barcode on the screen to record a one two-step

01:39:05   uh two-step authorization thing but like this is the thing I would love more information in those

01:39:12   dialogue boxes because that dialogue box didn't tell me anything just that it wanted to record my

01:39:18   screen and I think a developer should be able to customize the text to say why like why do you want

01:39:24   to do that um yeah I wasn't did not like all of that stuff like setting up a new app is so much

01:39:30   well complicated now um but I did like having catalyst apps being able to have a twitter app

01:39:37   rather than using tweetbot it was nice or using the website like I like that but so that is my

01:39:43   complete review of Catalina it's just like I don't really have much to say about it I found it more

01:39:48   annoying but I liked having more applications that I don't typically have so I'm going to be

01:39:54   continuing to use this MacBook Pro for a bit so I might have more to say on it but that was kind of

01:39:58   just what I wanted to wanted to talk about today all right should we do some hashtag ask upgrade

01:40:03   to wrap up today sounds like a good idea all right first let me thank ExpressVPN for the support of

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01:40:49   money-back guarantee ExpressVPN is super easy to install it's super easy to turn on it keeps

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01:41:19   thanks to ExpressVPN for their support of this show and all of RelayFN. So let's do some #AskUpgrade

01:41:27   questions the first comes from Neat Freak Geek and they say are there any Apple services that you do

01:41:34   not subscribe to do you consider them a business expense the ones that you do subscribe to since

01:41:39   you cover Apple if you didn't cover Apple professionally would it be any different for you?

01:41:47   I definitely don't subscribe to Apple News because I didn't find it valuable although I did for

01:41:53   you know I used the trial and I will sometimes go on and off of Apple services in order to

01:41:57   try them like that's a good example of like every now and then I'm going to need to look at Apple

01:42:02   News again but it's not worth paying for I'm on most of their services some of them I do actually

01:42:09   consider a business expense because or at least a portion of them because I write about them and

01:42:14   I need to have them and that's true of some other services too like streaming services and all where

01:42:19   I consider it part of my job to write about those so there's some amount of that that that goes to

01:42:24   there but you know that's that's Apple News I suppose is the biggest example Apple Care

01:42:31   I don't do any I'm not on the iPhone program I don't know that's about it yeah I didn't even

01:42:38   think about the upgrade program but yeah I also don't subscribe to Apple News because I just have

01:42:42   no interest in it but I would pay for all of the subscriptions that I do pay for regardless of

01:42:48   whether I was covering Apple and actually all of them I pay for myself they're not business

01:42:52   expenses it would be too difficult for me to try and split all that up and decouple it like

01:42:57   everything that I buy digitally through Apple I just pay for myself like then I don't pay for

01:43:02   my business but like TV+ and Apple Arcade Apple Care the uh I pay for additional iCloud I just

01:43:12   want all of those things um I'm sure that there could be something in the future that Apple launch

01:43:18   that I would just pay for to check out so I could talk about it and then cancel it but Apple and

01:43:23   Apple News could have been that thing but Apple News wasn't exciting or interesting enough to

01:43:27   really cover in detail about the content anyway so I didn't bother. Chris asks why are podcasters

01:43:34   from major news organizations who are now working from home instead of in their fancy recording

01:43:39   studios telling us how they are recording from under blankets is that really necessary?

01:43:43   Well they have high standards because they used to work in studios and now they're trying to get

01:43:47   that same audio quality in their homes and they're not getting it and that's because they haven't

01:43:52   needed to record from home before and they haven't created a home report recording studio and houses

01:43:56   are noisy and there are big glass windows and and bare walls and other things like that that

01:44:02   reflect audio and make it everything really echoey or there's street noise or there's noise from other

01:44:07   rooms because everybody else in their family is also home and so they try to like Leo LaPorte

01:44:12   tells a story about how he did a bunch of ad reads from a hotel in New York City and he basically just

01:44:16   went into the closet and did his ad reads in the closet and then they sounded perfect. I have

01:44:21   recorded from inside of closets when we were in San Francisco in the summer. I recorded I think

01:44:27   an episode of analog and connected from inside of a closet because it was we were in like a just a

01:44:33   our hotel room which didn't have a desk in it and it anyway but it was just like a big box so I

01:44:39   set up the ironing board in the closet as a desk and recorded in there it was great like it did

01:44:46   the job perfectly. Yeah so why are they telling you? I don't know I mean because they think it's

01:44:50   interesting or they're sharing or they're apologizing for how weird it sounds. The telling

01:44:56   you is not necessary. The audio quality like it is distracting if the audio quality dramatically

01:45:02   drops you're listening to a radio station and you're used to it sounding a certain way and now

01:45:06   it sounds very different and that can be disconcerting but it's mostly that you know

01:45:11   these poor people are used to having a studio to go to and they haven't had years like we have to

01:45:17   make our home our studio and you'll find the people who have home studios they sound fine.

01:45:22   It's the people who don't who have to scramble to try and figure out what we all had to figure out

01:45:27   when we started doing podcasting so I feel for them and it is hard and yes you can depending

01:45:33   on your equipment and your location it can sound really terrible and you try to make it sound

01:45:37   better so hiding under blankets in closets is actually a way to do it and it may be your best

01:45:43   bet or as I mentioned earlier the guy Steve Baker from KCBS in San Francisco who has been doing his

01:45:50   sports reports from the car. There is something kind of kind of funny about like some podcasters

01:45:56   realizing podcasts can't be recorded at home and but I do wonder about this like if we're

01:46:02   going to spend the next six months to a year with a lot of people doing this kind of stuff potentially

01:46:08   are these studios going to need to continue having studio like you know you can record

01:46:15   really good sounding podcasts from home with just the right equipment. You don't need a soundproofed

01:46:21   booth. Yeah that's how I feel about like Stephen Colbert and Jimmy Fallon and people like that too

01:46:26   is that I get that this whole caught everybody by surprise but surely your network can send you some

01:46:33   stuff and you and like facetime call with somebody who will tell you how to set it up at home

01:46:38   and then you will have a setup that is pretty good. Our tech for mobile video and audio it's

01:46:43   pretty good it's actually pretty good and I know that everybody was caught flat-footed by this but

01:46:47   like you figure it out you can figure it out and and people will. Like as a technology podcast that

01:46:54   I really love I will not name names they would stay record in person and they were like hopefully

01:47:01   we can find out a way to do this. It's like you can. Yeah it has been done. Technology podcasts

01:47:08   right like look at your contemporaries like you're going to be fine like it's very easy it's actually

01:47:15   much easier to do this way but it is it's just like a funny thing I get it like I sympathize

01:47:22   with people trust me I am I've been trying to soundproof a big room for a while right like it

01:47:28   can be very difficult to do but it's definitely possible and luckily like audio it is much easier

01:47:35   to fix podcasting from home than recording television shows from home like that's the

01:47:42   one thing we have going for us. Astro Phoenix asks if the Apple pencil has any additional

01:47:49   functionality in iOS 13.4 like can you use it to control any of the system stuff right can you

01:47:59   bring down control center with a notification center can you bring up the dock no the Apple

01:48:03   pencil is not considered a cursor or pointing device nothing has changed there unfortunately.

01:48:09   You use it the way you use it now. There's no change and finally today Andrew asks are there

01:48:14   any good family-friendly board games that can be played across the internet so families that can't

01:48:20   get together can still have a game night. There are a few Dan wrote a piece at Six Colors about

01:48:25   streaming some games with your friends which you can do depending I mean he's describing a very

01:48:29   particular situation but there are ways to screen share if you want to do a jackbox game where only

01:48:35   one person has to buy the game and then everybody else just logs into jackbox.tv and plays and

01:48:40   if you can if you can share your jackbox game using skype or whatever you're using you could

01:48:45   do that there are online games I'll put a link in there's you go to horsepaste.com and it's a

01:48:50   it's a game code names which you can play on the web which is fun for D&D we use Roll 20 which is

01:48:57   basically a common game board so you could play with that though that's about all I've got is

01:49:03   like the text adventures Jason. Sure anything that anything that just requires audio you could you

01:49:11   could absolutely do just using you know facetime or any other voice over IP kind of thing you can

01:49:16   do but if you can screen share or you can see a common game board or something it gets more

01:49:22   interesting. And I wanted to say like upgradients if you have suggestions for good games that can

01:49:27   be played online you know maybe iOS games, Mac games, games that you know like that you're playing

01:49:32   with family and friends send them in to us you can tweet them at us and we can record we can kind of

01:49:38   suggest some on a future episode. Sounds good. Big show today if you want to find show notes you can

01:49:44   go to relay.fm/upgrades/290 or you can find them in your app of choice you can find Jason

01:49:52   online and all this coverage over these new products at sixcolors.com. Jason is @jsnew I am

01:50:00   @imike thanks to all of our sponsors this week the Five Folk Express VPN, Pingdom, Uni and Smile and

01:50:09   I would also like to thank Indeed for supporting this episode and if you want to tune in live don't

01:50:18   forget we record the show live if you working from home and you want to hear us every week instead of

01:50:24   waiting for the show to come out you can do that we record live at 9am pacific time every week on

01:50:30   monday over at relay.fm/live and you can also find a schedule there for any of shows that you

01:50:37   want to listen to. Thank you for continuing to listen to the show under any circumstance that you

01:50:43   might find yourself in right now don't forget wash your hands and stay away from people stay inside

01:50:51   that's and then we're all going to get through this together take care of yourself find ways to

01:50:57   distract yourself listen to your favorite podcasts you know we're all in this together until next time

01:51:03   say goodbye Jason Snow. Bye everybody.

01:51:07   [Music]