286: You Can't Make Me Change My Pocket


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:08   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 286. Today's show is brought to you by Linode, Indeed, and Pingdom.

00:00:15   My name is Myke Hurley and I have the pleasure, as always, of being joined by Jason Snell. Hello, Jason Snell!

00:00:21   Hello, Myke Hurley. It's good to be home.

00:00:23   Do you mean recording Upgrade, like you consider Upgrade like your home?

00:00:28   Upgrade in my garage on a Monday morning is home.

00:00:32   Because technically it's my home that I am recording in.

00:00:35   That works.

00:00:36   #SnellTalkQuestion for you this week comes from Jared and Jared wants to know,

00:00:41   "Jason, do you have any advice for a non-tea drinker who isn't partial to the teas that they've tried before to become a tea drinker?"

00:00:49   Oh boy. I mean everybody's flavor, everybody's taste is different.

00:00:55   So...

00:00:56   Try different categories.

00:00:58   Try different, yeah, I was gonna say like I really like English Breakfast, that's a black tea.

00:01:03   If you haven't tried English Breakfast, try that.

00:01:06   Not like, like Earl Grey people think of as tea, but that has it like extra flavor in it that turns a lot of people off.

00:01:11   I love Earl Grey.

00:01:13   So straight up black tea, English Breakfast, Irish Breakfast is a good thing to start with.

00:01:17   And then I would say if you don't like it, or it seems too bitter or whatever, also, by the way, a little advice for...

00:01:24   Look at the instructions, because like a lot of people who don't know anything about tea like leave the teabag in forever,

00:01:30   and it gets super bitter and awful.

00:01:32   The teabag should be in for like three minutes if you're using a teabag, like three minutes.

00:01:35   It's just don't leave the teabag in too long.

00:01:39   You might like it with honey, you might like it with milk, you might like it with sugar.

00:01:43   Those are things that sort of like with coffee, some people will have it with nothing put in it,

00:01:50   and you may end up there, but you start with kind of diluting it with other things to make it sweeter and nicer.

00:01:55   My daughter started drinking tea, and she's like a hummingbird.

00:02:00   Like it's just got to have all the sugar in it, and she puts milk in it.

00:02:04   My wife just has milk in hers, and I just, I put honey in mine, because I'm also kind of like a hummingbird.

00:02:11   There's also, there are other kinds of teas.

00:02:14   You could try green tea, you could try...

00:02:16   And again, look at the instructions, because the instructions for brewing green tea are different from black tea.

00:02:20   Or you could do like an herbal tea.

00:02:22   I was, my throat was feeling a little funny last night, and I had a lemon herbal tea with some honey, and that was really nice.

00:02:28   So, you know, shop around.

00:02:30   But I would say the key thing is start with something basic like black tea, like English breakfast.

00:02:34   Try, if it doesn't, don't over steep it, and then try some add-ons to see if you can get it to be a flavor that you enjoy.

00:02:42   And if it doesn't work for you, that's fine.

00:02:44   Like, it's not for everybody.

00:02:46   Yep.

00:02:46   I would just like to recommend, for people that are interested, my favorite tea.

00:02:51   It is Fortnum & Mason's Countess Grey, which is an earl grey, and it has some bergamot and orange flavors in it.

00:03:00   Very good tea, Jason.

00:03:02   Yeah, you know, earl grey is a...

00:03:04   I've been having a bunch of different kinds of earl grey, because I have a...

00:03:08   The podcast that I do with Scott McNulty about Star Trek, we're doing the Star Trek Picard show,

00:03:12   and Captain Picard famously liked earl grey, so we have a sponsor who is a tea maker, and so there's lots of tea.

00:03:19   That is just an excellent... What is the phrase on the...

00:03:23   Tea earl grey hot.

00:03:25   What, on 30 Rock?

00:03:26   Yeah, they have like the something integration.

00:03:29   Vertical integration.

00:03:30   Vertical integration. It's a good one.

00:03:31   Yeah, it's pretty good.

00:03:33   Like, Captain Picard drinks tea, so why don't we have a tea sponsor?

00:03:36   It's brilliant.

00:03:37   But anyway, he sent me a package of all of his earl greys, and so I've been going through those, and they're good.

00:03:42   But earl grey is kind of an acquired taste. It can be.

00:03:46   And if you're starting out with something like earl grey, I would caution you to go back to something like English breakfast,

00:03:52   because English breakfast is basically earl grey without those extra weird flavors put in it.

00:03:56   And you might like the weird flavors. You might hate them. Some people hate them.

00:04:00   I drink earl grey with no milk, which is the way that earl grey should be consumed.

00:04:06   With nothing? Just straight up? Just earl grey?

00:04:09   Wow. I don't do that.

00:04:14   I actually have a cream earl grey, and I added a little milk to it, and it's so good.

00:04:18   I've had the cream earl grey from New Mexico Tea Company, and it's fantastic.

00:04:22   Well, there we are. You've seen, they're not sponsoring this this time, but they are sponsoring my other podcast,

00:04:28   which you can listen to at The Incomparable.

00:04:30   But I had it because they were once a sponsor of upgrades.

00:04:33   Yes, they were.

00:04:33   And they sent me a packet, and it was fantastic.

00:04:37   Tea time! Let's do some pocket follow up, which we knew was going to happen.

00:04:42   So on last week's episode, we spoke about how me and Jason believe an iPhone should be put into your pocket,

00:04:48   and we both agreed. Right pocket with the screen towards us, and the lightning port should be facing towards us, basically.

00:04:56   Right? Yes.

00:04:56   This is where we're going with that.

00:04:57   Yes, and screen in.

00:04:59   We knew that we were going to get lots of follow up on this, and we did.

00:05:02   I have a selection of tweets that have been sent to us, which encapsulate the majority of the follow up.

00:05:08   Ben has said, oh, just as a correction, we mentioned that we always had the headphone jack pointing towards the sky,

00:05:15   because that's how it was, and we said all iPhones.

00:05:18   You thought that they switched from the top to the bottom almost immediately,

00:05:23   and being in a hotel room on an iPad, I didn't want to quickly do the research.

00:05:28   It didn't sound right. It was not right.

00:05:29   It was on the bottom for a lot longer, or on the top for a lot longer before it switched to the bottom.

00:05:34   The first iPhone is the one that had the weird cut-in design, where you needed an adapter for most headphones that weren't from Apple,

00:05:42   but it did stay on the top for a while.

00:05:44   Yep. Shelly wrote in, Shelly who is the host of the wonderful parallel-hill and relay of phones.

00:05:49   Oh, listener Shelly, yeah.

00:05:51   To say that there are some variables including handedness.

00:05:55   I agree. I think when we said right pocket, that's just the one that we like, but if you use your phone with your left hand, of course change to the left hand.

00:06:02   I didn't say right pocket, because mine's in my left pocket.

00:06:04   Well, right pocket's the correct pocket, in my opinion.

00:06:07   Whether the phone is in a case that covers the screen and must flop open for use, I can imagine that stuff would, if you did use one of those, would change it.

00:06:14   I can agree with this.

00:06:16   Shelly did say also lack of actual pockets plays a role for some of us.

00:06:19   Yes, I would say that if the question is how do you put it in your pocket,

00:06:24   if the answer is I don't have a pocket, that is a solid answer.

00:06:27   Yeah, and you have to then like disregard everything we said because there is no pocket.

00:06:31   Of course, there must be a pocket for the pocket conversation to be in effect.

00:06:35   Yes.

00:06:36   But Shelly is screen in, which is the correct way, left side pocket, top edge upward.

00:06:43   My main thing on this is screen in.

00:06:45   I do think that having it so basically however you orient the phone to make sure that it is facing towards you when you take it out of the pocket makes a lot of sense.

00:06:58   So, for example, Cliver wrote in to say that if they have a suit on and they will put their phone in their inside suit jacket pocket,

00:07:08   you would then have the screen facing upwards rather than downwards.

00:07:13   And I agree with this, when I wear a suit or a blazer and I put my phone in that pocket, the phone faces up

00:07:20   because the way that you take it out of the pocket, it is then in the correct orientation.

00:07:25   So I agree with this.

00:07:26   Yeah, it's a big day when I'm wearing pants, so I have no suit opinions.

00:07:32   Okay.

00:07:33   I work at home, Myke, I work in a garage.

00:07:36   So do I, Jason, but I like to dress fancy whenever I can.

00:07:39   Vince says, "I face the screen outwards always.

00:07:43   There is a very good reason for this.

00:07:45   A screen replacement is cheaper than replacing the back glass on a new iPhone."

00:07:48   So I would say about four years ago, the screen inwards would be correct, but since the iPhone 8 and 10 generation, not anymore.

00:07:56   I appreciate this feedback, Vince.

00:07:58   I totally disagree with it.

00:07:59   Yeah, me too.

00:08:00   First off, I care a lot more if my screen cracks than if the back glass cracks.

00:08:05   I actually don't care.

00:08:07   And something we maybe didn't mention, you know, I'm using Apple's leather case, which means the rear of my phone has extra protection.

00:08:17   And if it cracked, I wouldn't even see it.

00:08:20   So this is all why I don't do that.

00:08:22   To sacrifice the screen of your phone to protect the back of the phone, you should be putting a case on your phone and then protecting the screen.

00:08:30   Right?

00:08:31   Like that's how I, if you would go to the lengths of like, you will have your screen damaged first, right?

00:08:37   Then I feel like you should just be wearing a case on the phone so then you won't damage the back of the phone.

00:08:42   Right?

00:08:43   Yep.

00:08:44   And Patrick says, "Do you not worry about the little metal grommets on your jeans scratching the screen as you take it in and out of your pocket?"

00:08:50   No.

00:08:51   Well, I can answer this question because the change pocket with the extra rivets on it is on the right pocket.

00:08:56   And I've used my phone in my left pocket and there are no little metal grommets over there.

00:09:00   So I do have this problem because they go right pocket.

00:09:03   And I do have little scratches on my phone, but I don't know if that's where they're coming from.

00:09:08   But my phones have only been scratching in the last couple of years, which is very strange.

00:09:12   But no, I do not worry about that.

00:09:14   But screen in.

00:09:15   Right pocket.

00:09:16   Screen in.

00:09:17   Right pocket.

00:09:18   No, I can't, look, Jason, you can't make me change my pocket, right?

00:09:23   Like I've been doing that for too long.

00:09:25   Pocket is what it is.

00:09:27   But I appreciate all the feedback that we've received.

00:09:31   I think we can refine to say that the official upgrade rule on the way that a phone is put in a pocket is screen in.

00:09:41   Me and Jason are agreed upon this, even after all this feedback.

00:09:43   Screen in.

00:09:44   You should be wearing a case if you're worried about the back.

00:09:47   And that you should be putting your phone into the pocket in the way that when you remove it from the pocket,

00:09:53   the screen is in the correct orientation.

00:09:55   Right.

00:09:56   Right.

00:09:57   Whether, so if you're doing a kind of thing where you put two fingers in and kind of like pull it up and then it's in the right way,

00:10:02   or if you're doing the kind of, I'm going to grab it and then pull it out like I do, and then it's the right orientation.

00:10:07   Yeah, that's right.

00:10:08   I'm glad we solved all of all the problems except for left versus right.

00:10:11   I'm sure we're not going to get any more feedback about this.

00:10:14   Nope.

00:10:14   That's it.

00:10:14   No.

00:10:15   We've done it.

00:10:15   Nope.

00:10:16   We fixed it.

00:10:16   The final high five.

00:10:17   We finally did it.

00:10:18   Malware follow up.

00:10:21   Oh boy.

00:10:21   This is a fun one.

00:10:23   I can't believe we're devoting so much time on this show to talking about malware in the year of 2020.

00:10:27   It's 2020.

00:10:29   Yeah.

00:10:30   A lot of feedback.

00:10:31   We got feedback.

00:10:32   I got feedback at Six Colors.

00:10:34   The boys over at ATP got some feedback because they've covered this a couple of times in the last couple of weeks.

00:10:39   I felt real good about getting all of this feedback, which was mostly the feedback that we were receiving was mostly angry and feeling completely absolved.

00:10:48   Like, because I just feel like I had nothing to say about this really.

00:10:51   So it's kind of just like, not me.

00:10:53   Yeah.

00:10:54   Just pass it on through.

00:10:55   So here's what happened.

00:10:56   So what I said was that Malwarebytes, which is a company that makes anti-malware software and released a report about malware, which was, I feel, kind of exaggerated and inflammatory.

00:11:09   It's also self-serving marketing that I think overstates the extent of the issues of malware on the Mac and makes a lot of things like conflates malware and adware together and that their expert went and was quoted in recode talking about how Macs not getting viruses isn't true.

00:11:29   And I said that that was a scare tactic.

00:11:33   You know, people don't like being criticized, so I'm not surprised that there was pushback from that.

00:11:38   What bugs me is that I said a lot of stuff and I was just somewhat critical of them because the truth is it's not like Malwarebytes can say, no, no, no, it isn't in our best interest for people to buy our software and services.

00:11:51   Like, of course it is.

00:11:51   It is self-serving.

00:11:52   And you need to keep that in mind when somebody tells you something or when there's a news story that's really inflammatory.

00:12:00   And because it's been, the writer has blown it up to be a bigger story than it is.

00:12:04   And then you find out that their source is somebody who works at a company who benefits from people having a perception that they need anti-malware software.

00:12:12   This is where you get.

00:12:13   We said this kind of stuff about like where the Apple leagues come from.

00:12:17   Yes.

00:12:17   You should always consider the source and take it with a grain of salt.

00:12:20   And that means us, that means them.

00:12:23   It means you should always consider the source and what they have to gain or lose by talking about the issue.

00:12:28   But I will also say, I said a lot of stuff that I thought was pointed out by the Malwarebytes report that was good.

00:12:35   Um, which is why I'm kind of annoyed that they're like, oh, you, you, how dare you criticize us?

00:12:40   Like, I thought that the point that about Malwarebytes guy made about the fact that, um, people think the Mac is impervious.

00:12:49   I think that there's a point there, which is people act like the Mac is impervious and do dumb stuff that gets them in trouble because it's not.

00:12:58   And that if there is this perception among regular users that they can do whatever the heck on their Mac, and it's not going to work as Macs quote, Macs don't get viruses.

00:13:06   That, um, that's a problem because you can do dumb stuff with your Mac.

00:13:11   And again, this is another thing that somebody said to me, how dare you call people who, who get viruses dumb?

00:13:16   Like, uh, that's not what I said.

00:13:18   I said, you could do dumb stuff.

00:13:19   You can do stuff that, that you're not super savvy with computer security.

00:13:23   That's.

00:13:24   I do dumb stuff all the time.

00:13:25   That's not saying somebody's dumb.

00:13:26   Fair.

00:13:28   I live my life going from dumb stuff to dumb stuff.

00:13:31   I'm not saying that the people are dumb.

00:13:32   I'm saying that you can make bad decisions, not even knowing what you're doing.

00:13:36   And, um, and if you believe you can do that and suffer no consequences, that's, that's not great.

00:13:43   And, and so I'm not trying to say there aren't issues here.

00:13:47   In fact, I think one of the great things that came out of that report is the, the reality that, um, Mac Malware and adware, especially is on the rise.

00:13:55   The Mac is a big enough target and it's a sitting duck.

00:13:59   For some of these adware and malware companies, they there's just too great an opportunity.

00:14:04   So there's been a huge rise in adware.

00:14:06   Um, this is also, by the way, I think not a coincidence why Catalina has much tighter security settings and why Apple did that thing in November, where they basically clarified.

00:14:18   They're saying their rules for being on the platform that includes a whole bunch of things that are not malware related.

00:14:23   They're adware related, which gives them the latitude to basically kick software off, not just the Mac app store, off the platform using their other tools that they have at their disposal.

00:14:34   And my understanding is that Apple has been more aggressive at that since November.

00:14:38   There's a reason for that, which is there's been a rise in attacks in malware.

00:14:43   And especially, I mean, malware, again, there's some very specific definitions of these things, but the adware stuff, the annoying stuff, the programs that don't really do anything and they make it hard to remove it.

00:14:51   And they stick ads in weird places, all of that kind of stuff.

00:14:55   Um, we did hear from a very interesting person who says that he works, uh, doing support for AppleCare.

00:15:02   Um, and you know, the email was a little overheated, a little, you know, they've been, and they've been emailing, um, all of us.

00:15:11   Uh, I wasn't the only one to receive an email from this person this week.

00:15:16   I do think that there's some good information in there too.

00:15:18   All right. So, uh, this person told us that they spend around eight hours a week removing adware and malware from Macs.

00:15:27   Um, I assume that they're like some AppleCare center and computers are sent into them.

00:15:33   That was the, the, the, what I got.

00:15:35   I don't know. I mean, I read it that they were just spending time on the phone with people trying to walk them through getting it out.

00:15:39   Oh, right. Okay. Yeah, that's very possible. That's very possible.

00:15:42   Um, and they said that most people do not know what is wrong with their computers, but it has stopped working in the way that they want.

00:15:49   And then they eventually come to the conclusion that it's malware or adware.

00:15:53   And I've got a quote, I've got a couple of quotes.

00:15:54   The single most prevalent type of infection involves a convincing looking browser pop-up that warns the user that they need to install or update their version of Adobe Flash Player.

00:16:03   While most people in the upgrade audience wouldn't fall for this, it comes across as plausible for non-techie types.

00:16:07   Right. Most of our audience knows that you shouldn't even have Flash Player on your system.

00:16:11   And I think it gets deprecated like later this year, it's gonna cease entirely.

00:16:16   But it is, a little pop-up ad comes up with a seemingly real dialogue box, except it, you know, a more savvy user might notice it's a browser window, but you know, a less savvy user might not and be like, oh, because, because Flash always did pop up warnings when you tried to load a Flash object saying, which is why they're mock, they're, you know, they're duplicating that they're trying to get, get you to believe that that's one of this is one of those.

00:16:40   So I've got to Jason's no or Michael, you need antivirus antivirus software on the Mac. No. Does an average Mac user in 2020 need third party security software?

00:16:48   Apple Care clearly thinks so as our internal training quietly recommends we instruct customers to install the free version of malware bytes.

00:16:56   In my experience, it has earned its reputation as a reliable and effective adware removal tool.

00:17:01   It can't remove malicious user profiles and system preferences, but it makes quick work of pretty much everything else.

00:17:09   So, you know, I can't, I can't and won't argue with this because like I see this as all making sense.

00:17:17   This is, this is one of the interesting things about the people who push back on this is that sometimes I think they're arguing against things we didn't say.

00:17:24   Although I don't think I would say the average Mac user needs to install third party security software.

00:17:34   Um, I, I think it is probably accurate to say that the average Mac user either needs to install third party security software or have a, you know, have.

00:17:47   An education about what not to do, because I think, I think if you're running Catalina and you know what not to do.

00:17:57   You're probably okay. Like this is not one of those things where you're just going to kind of catch it and you're like, oh no, I caught a virus. I'm glad my software was there to protect me.

00:18:06   You kind of have to do something. You have to be talked into doing something bad.

00:18:10   And so education would work too, but I understand that doesn't always work and that, uh, saying, all right, do whatever, but this software is in there.

00:18:19   Um, you know, and I would say as annoying as Catalina is, and this person, um, said this as well.

00:18:25   Um, as far as this person could tell Catalina's updates and the increased security in Catalina has seemed to make a big difference that, that people running Catalina are not the ones who are calling in and saying I've got malware.

00:18:38   I've got adware on my computer.

00:18:40   So this makes me question, you know, like.

00:18:45   You were very vocal and I understand why about your dislike for the security dialogues in Catalina, right? They were too aggressive and you know, we all saw the meme of like a Mac OS XP or whatever, you know, like Vista Mac OS Vista that was going around.

00:19:03   But I think maybe the reason has been answered now.

00:19:06   Like why did they add all these Catalina security boxes and check marks and all this stuff everywhere? Well, maybe Apple knows that malware and adware was on the rise.

00:19:18   If this is the case that their support staff are dealing with this all the time, they know this is affecting their users.

00:19:24   So they wanted to make some changes.

00:19:26   I mean, you could assume, I think from this information, um, that they wanted to make some changes to the way the system works.

00:19:33   But it's one of these situations where Apple won't tell you, right? Like when they, when they get on stage and they talk about a security updates, if one of the reasons is because they want to protect people against malware and adware, Apple's not going to say that.

00:19:45   For two reasons, right? One, Apple doesn't, Apple benefits from the perception that Apple platforms are free of adware and malware, right?

00:19:52   So they, they, they have a marketing benefit of their own, right? It's kind of bad form and security to, if you're a platform vendor, to do a little dance and say, basically come and get us. Ha ha ha.

00:20:04   You don't do that. Like you don't do that.

00:20:06   So Apple's also not going to go out there and say, look at how amazing we are with our security.

00:20:13   They're going to keep it a little bit on the down low.

00:20:15   So for both of those reasons, Apple is not going to really talk about it.

00:20:19   But, um, I think you're right. As annoying as some of the, like, I don't love that.

00:20:25   There are, there are several features in Catalina that I don't like, but I know why they're doing them.

00:20:28   This is, this was true.

00:20:29   Even we can talk about the implementations and about how they've balanced all of it, but clearly this has been a priority for them is to lock down that security.

00:20:37   And I don't, if there was no need, they wouldn't do it right there.

00:20:41   Clearly there is a need to lock this down and they see the difference in attack vectors on iOS, where basically it has to be a bug where there's, you know, one of these things that like the state actors, like intelligence services and things are using that are bugs in the system versus on the Mac where you can just talk somebody into it.

00:21:01   And that machine is compromised and they don't like that difference.

00:21:05   They want Mac to be as tight as possible.

00:21:07   If it could be as tightly secure as iOS, they would love it.

00:21:11   You know, so in the end, I'm not saying that all the malware companies are lying to you.

00:21:17   I'm not saying they're bad people.

00:21:18   I'm not saying security experts who install malware on people's systems are doing it just to make money and con you out of money.

00:21:27   I'm not saying any of that.

00:21:28   I'm saying anytime you read a scary story about malware, especially on the Mac, check to see the source of information.

00:21:34   Read the original, like read that malware by its report.

00:21:36   Don't just read the inflammatory story that says Macs now get more malware than Windows, which is just bananas.

00:21:43   Go to the source.

00:21:45   Consider what the source is.

00:21:46   One of the problems with malware information is a lot of it comes from companies whose business is selling anti-malware software.

00:21:53   And that means they have something to sell you.

00:21:55   It doesn't mean that they're lying.

00:21:57   It doesn't mean that they aren't legitimately concerned about protecting people, but it does mean it's still marketing.

00:22:03   And you may not be getting the whole picture, and just keep that in mind.

00:22:08   If you're a savvy Mac user, and most of our listeners, I would like to thank are, you probably don't need any of this software.

00:22:15   Because of what I said before, you've got kind of some behavior in you and some education in you about what the issues are about things like only from the Mac App Store and trusted sources.

00:22:27   And if some app has an installer and they want you to type in your admin password, think about why that is happening.

00:22:35   If they want you to disable Mac OS security settings, don't install that software unless you're absolutely sure what you're doing.

00:22:44   And I think most of our listeners probably understand that.

00:22:48   I do think that all of our listeners and us, we have friends and family and coworkers and other people that are near us who maybe look to us for knowledge about this stuff.

00:23:00   And those not particularly savvy people, like I said, I think they would benefit potentially from some anti-malware software and there are some that are free, that are free tier stuff.

00:23:11   I think they would also benefit from a little bit of an education from you about the ground rules of this.

00:23:19   So they're less likely to make those bad choices. I think education can go a long way. It is not, it doesn't always work, but you could try that.

00:23:26   And I think at this point I would say if they can go to Catalina, assuming that they are not using proprietary 32-bit software that has not been updated and they must have for their business, which is probably a lot less likely,

00:23:37   just put them on Catalina because Catalina really does tighten the screws on this stuff and it sounds anecdotally like Catalina users are much less likely to get attacked by this stuff.

00:23:49   But the final point I will make is yes, the Mac is a much bigger target than it ever has been.

00:23:57   Misleading and malicious software on the Mac is on the rise.

00:24:01   This is why, almost certainly, why Apple tightened all those screws in Catalina, why it redefined its malware rules in November so that it has, it can point to the rule book and say I'm going to kill this app.

00:24:13   And that's not Mac App Store rejections, that's putting things in the system that basically prevent those apps from running because they've determined that their malware or otherwise like do not, don't have the approval of the platform owner.

00:24:27   And that's why they have those rules listed so that they can point to them and say this is why we killed your app.

00:24:33   Apple doesn't talk about this stuff, but it is working behind the scenes to do this.

00:24:37   So it's not as if, you know, if there's a question like why isn't Apple doing something?

00:24:41   Well, Apple is doing something.

00:24:42   You can judge how effective that is.

00:24:46   And if, you know, there are a lot of people running old Macs on old versions of the OS that aren't as secure and they're more at risk for stuff like this.

00:24:54   So it's not, you know, it's not true that the Mac is impervious to attack.

00:25:01   And that is important to recognize.

00:25:04   And whether you think installing anti-malware software is the right thing to do or whether you think just you're educated enough that you can sniff out when somebody's trying to attack you and just not install that weird software.

00:25:21   If you're not going to darker places in the internet, a lot of this stuff is never going to reach you because a lot of this stuff gets embedded in piracy and porn.

00:25:29   So if you're not going there, if you mostly are downloading things on the Mac App Store or from, you know, big companies, it's a lot less likely that you're ever going to be affected by stuff like this.

00:25:38   And if you do get something weird that is popping up on your system, you can generally then go download that software, that anti-malware software and scan and see what's going on.

00:25:49   That's it.

00:25:50   This episode of Upgrade is brought to you by Indeed.

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00:27:02   A thanks to Indeed for their support of this show and all of Relay FM.

00:27:06   So should we do some upstream headlines?

00:27:08   Sounds like a great idea.

00:27:10   Apple has shared their first trailer for Amazing Stories.

00:27:12   The show will debut on Friday, March 6th with 10 episodes.

00:27:16   This is the anthology show produced by Steven Spielberg.

00:27:19   What are your opinions Jason?

00:27:21   We'll see in the trailer.

00:27:22   Well, a lot of people have great nostalgia for Amazing Stories.

00:27:24   I think they're a little younger than I am because I remember when it came on and I was disappointed and I didn't like the original Amazing Stories.

00:27:32   I much preferred the new Twilight Zone that aired a few years before.

00:27:35   So I look at this and some of it looks good.

00:27:38   And then the music starts playing and there's like an old airplane flying and I thought, "Oh no, it's Amazing Stories."

00:27:46   Right? Like it, I don't know.

00:27:48   It's an anthology show.

00:27:50   Horowitz and Kitsis, the guys who did this are, they were on Lost.

00:27:56   They wrote for Lost.

00:27:57   I think they've done some other kind of J.J. Abrams TV shows and it could be good.

00:28:04   It's five, it's, they said five stories.

00:28:07   So are they only debuting five of them in the trailer?

00:28:10   It says five.

00:28:11   So it sounds like they're maybe splitting up the release and dropping five on March 6th and then another five a little bit later.

00:28:17   Since it's an anthology, they can probably get away with that.

00:28:19   So I don't know.

00:28:20   It could be good.

00:28:21   It could be bad.

00:28:21   It really is.

00:28:22   It's going to come down to the writing and whether the stories truly are amazing.

00:28:25   And I guess we'll all be the judge of that.

00:28:28   Apple TV Plus production, Shantaram has halted production.

00:28:33   This is an adventure drama starring Charlie Hunnam based on the novel by Gregory Davis Roberts.

00:28:40   There is apparently a writing backlog and because of this, the showrunner Eric Warren Singer is now leaving the show.

00:28:46   So did his dog eat his homework?

00:28:48   Is that what happened?

00:28:48   It kind of seems like that's what happened and now he has basically had to leave or has been fired and that's that.

00:28:56   Yeah, I think that is a sign that your showrunner is not doing their job if they can't keep the scripts coming while you're shooting the show.

00:29:06   That's kind of their job.

00:29:08   That's number one job is actually keep the show running if you're the showrunner.

00:29:12   Yes, that is very important.

00:29:14   If the show stops, you have not done your job as showrunner because you're not the showstopper.

00:29:20   The showrunner became the showstopper and now it's been paused.

00:29:25   HBO has announced that a Friends reunion will happen on HBO Max.

00:29:30   It is going to be a one-off, unscripted special that will kind of debut with like, "Oh, hey, we have Friends here."

00:29:37   Apparently, it costs between $2.5 to $3 million per cast member.

00:29:43   Yeah, I think for years after Friends went off the air, I thought to myself, and there were rumors about this at one point,

00:29:49   like to get them back together in a scripted special like for Thanksgiving or something like that and all the Friends come together and there's a little story about it.

00:29:59   Which is funny because in British TV that happens all the time, right?

00:30:02   Yeah, like the Christmas special.

00:30:04   The reunion special, the Christmas special, the holiday special where like, you know, there are these shows that have been on for 20 years or 30 years,

00:30:13   but really they still only have about 20 episodes because they did two six-episode seasons

00:30:18   and then every three or four years they do another Christmas special and that's it.

00:30:22   And I always thought that Friends would be a great example of that where it's like,

00:30:25   why not just spend the money and they'll get a huge rating and it'll be great.

00:30:28   So you wait long enough and apparently somebody, everybody was like, I wonder if they even floated, like could we do like a special Friends episode?

00:30:39   And very clearly that was not going to happen.

00:30:41   So these actors just get paid several million dollars to like sit in the central perk set or something and reminisce about the show.

00:30:50   That is a promo for HBO Max.

00:30:52   So yeah, I mean it's smart on WarnerMedia's part to, since they've got Friends,

00:30:58   to launch the return of Friends to streaming with this special with the actors and presumably also the writers and producers with lots of like ancillary material,

00:31:08   like a big DVD extra basically promoting the fact that it's on HBO Max.

00:31:15   I mean obviously Jennifer Aniston's deal with Apple doesn't preclude her from doing this, but I am surprised though anyway.

00:31:26   I don't know. It's, I mean it's literally just a reunion like conversation.

00:31:30   It's like an interview. It's like agreeing to do an interview basically.

00:31:34   It's not, or a DVD extra like I said.

00:31:36   It's not that, it's not a big deal. It's a one-off.

00:31:38   Come in on a Wednesday, you know, spend a few hours with Schwimmer and then leave.

00:31:45   Yeah, maybe there's like a thing with a few of them where they couldn't have done a scripted special for those types of reasons.

00:31:52   It's possible. I think they, none of them want to revisit it.

00:31:55   And I've definitely heard the writers say that they like where they left it off and that there are more questions than answers.

00:32:02   If you say what, you know, what is Chandler doing now?

00:32:06   Like do we really want to know what Chandler is doing now? I don't. I don't.

00:32:10   As a big fan of the show, I want there to be it, but I also don't. You know what I mean?

00:32:16   The example would be Will and Grace, which came back after many, many years and they've done a couple seasons of it.

00:32:21   And I don't know how the fans of that show feel about, do they, I mean as an X-Files fan,

00:32:26   I will tell you what I feel about the two seasons that they did of that, you know, decades after the show was on,

00:32:31   which is that I think it was kind of embarrassing and bad and I didn't need to see it.

00:32:35   So, but other people can be thrilled that their favorite, they get to see their favorite characters a little bit more.

00:32:40   And I'm really enjoying Star Trek Picard, which is what's Captain Picard up to now, right?

00:32:45   Like there's a whole show built around that. So I can see it going either way, but clearly the writers and producers and actors and I'll put it this way.

00:32:54   I think they would have offered them a, why don't you come back and do one to eight episodes of Friends 2020 for HBO Max.

00:33:04   And that was not, either not going to happen or would have cost so much money that it was not going to happen.

00:33:09   That was definitely how it started, right? Like I, it would be wild if that was not how they started those conversations,

00:33:16   but I expect at least half of the cast were like, no, we're good.

00:33:20   Like we don't want to do this. We have a pretty good thing going on.

00:33:26   You know, like we don't, Friends, going back to Friends might not be the best thing to do.

00:33:31   So I'm kind of pleased that they are doing it the way that they're doing it.

00:33:36   Apple ever issued a press release stating that they will not meet their quarterly guidance figures due to disruptions caused by coronavirus.

00:33:44   While they are expecting a slower return to normal conditions than had been anticipated. Effectively, iPhone supply is constrained

00:33:53   because their factories, some of them closed down for a while.

00:33:56   Some of them are returning to operation, but with limited staff.

00:34:00   There are lots of reports about the effects of coronavirus on Foxconn and they are varying,

00:34:06   but you can kind of draw a line through all of them that just says it won't be as it was before Lunar New Year.

00:34:13   And also Apple have closed their Chinese Apple stores.

00:34:17   They've been closed and they don't know when they're opening them again.

00:34:20   So this will obviously make an impact.

00:34:23   You know, like, you know, if you are following the news even just a little bit, coronavirus is affecting all manufacturing.

00:34:30   Yeah, this is not just Apple.

00:34:32   In fact, my understanding is that Apple may end up being like the Apple's doing pretty good even though because they're on top of this.

00:34:40   But it's going to cause them, they were doing conservative guidance.

00:34:45   They said because they were concerned about coronavirus and how it was going to impact their operations.

00:34:49   And they have had to restate already.

00:34:56   It's like, no, no, it's going to even be worse than we thought when we gave our conservative guidance.

00:35:00   So, but they're not, they're far from the only company affected by this.

00:35:04   And, you know, this is a world of global supply chains and you have an issue here where there's a disease spreading.

00:35:10   And there are restrictions in travel and it's going to impact the global economy.

00:35:16   And Apple is a part of that.

00:35:18   Yep.

00:35:19   If you are ganking anything in China, it is a problem.

00:35:22   I am a person who is aware of this.

00:35:24   Yeah.

00:35:25   It's difficult.

00:35:26   And it's upsetting too.

00:35:29   And, you know, it seems like people are trying to manage it, but it's something that's spreading.

00:35:34   And could, let's talk about WWDC.

00:35:38   Could affect WWDC this year.

00:35:41   So let's lay the groundwork for this.

00:35:45   So Mobile World Congress in Barcelona was canceled.

00:35:48   There are lots of conferences that are having big companies skip.

00:35:53   So like, I think Sony skipped PAX this year.

00:35:57   GDC, which is the Game Developers Conference in San Francisco, is having a couple of things happening to it.

00:36:03   One is a bunch of companies aren't going to be attending.

00:36:08   And there are also kind of travel restrictions on people from certain countries, right?

00:36:13   So like, if you were coming from China, well, you can't, right?

00:36:17   Because one, most airlines, I don't think any airlines at the moment, are operating flights from, to and from China from certain countries.

00:36:25   I think there are some, but it's very limited.

00:36:27   Very, very limited.

00:36:28   And, you know, as well, like if you are coming to America from China, I mean, at the moment, I think like good luck getting in.

00:36:36   I think it would be very difficult for you right now if that's like a thing that you are trying to do.

00:36:41   Now, we are currently in February.

00:36:45   WWDC is in June and in between now and then, who knows what could happen, right?

00:36:49   Like coronavirus is starting to spread through Europe now.

00:36:53   So what could happen come June?

00:36:58   Yeah, I think it is worth asking the question that's already going around, which is, Apple has a worldwide conference in June.

00:37:06   And it's early yet, but we've seen, they essentially, they canceled Mobile World Congress.

00:37:13   It's worth at least speculating what Apple is thinking about this.

00:37:21   Apple is going to bring people in from all over the world and, you know, would they consider changing or closing down WWDC?

00:37:32   We would expect WWDC information to be released probably within the next three weeks.

00:37:38   It's usually in mid-March is like when we would expect like, "Hey, 2020 is coming!"

00:37:44   Right? Like, "Here are the dates!"

00:37:45   Right? That's kind of the typical time that it gets announced.

00:37:49   So I guess it's between now and then, what is going to occur?

00:37:52   I mean, it might be like, as well, that Apple don't really have a lot of say because it might be that they announce it and everything's fine.

00:37:59   But then come June, a lot of non-US participants might not be allowed to go.

00:38:05   Right? Because of travel restrictions.

00:38:09   And I guess really it's up to Apple right now to decide what are they going to do?

00:38:15   Right? Like, are they talking about it?

00:38:17   I'm sure they are. Like, would they skip it?

00:38:20   Here's the question. Could they skip it, Jason?

00:38:22   Could WWDC be skipped?

00:38:25   Well, of course it could.

00:38:28   In fact, Apple already streams its sessions live to the world and archives them, and that part is all in place.

00:38:35   And they could do that because they reach way more people with that than the people who are able to physically attend.

00:38:44   What it would miss is the point of meeting in person, which is that you get, you know, developers get to talk to Apple engineers directly in a way that they don't any other time.

00:38:53   And they get to talk to, developers get to talk to one another.

00:38:56   And there's, you know, there's all this value in that and we have a great time and it's fun and people learn stuff and it's great.

00:39:03   But the downside is, you know, there's a disease spreading.

00:39:07   It's also very expensive. Not everybody can come.

00:39:09   So there's, it's really kind of a disparity. They have that lottery, but you also have to, it's, you know, be able to afford to come and stay in San Jose, which is very expensive.

00:39:19   So, you know, I, this has been a question for a long time now, which is like, does the 21st century need giant in-person events or are they a dinosaur?

00:39:29   And, you know, a lot of trade shows have faded away, but some of these events still stay because there is, and I don't think it's a mass hallucination.

00:39:37   I think there is some value in having face-to-face conversations.

00:39:40   I could maybe make an argument that Apple, if I was, if I was inside Apple, I could maybe make the case that what we ought to do is different and we roll out stuff via videos and live streams.

00:39:55   And we do kind of regional events where we talk to developers, but so you could re-engineer Apple's developer conference to be different.

00:40:06   But it isn't right, like their whole identity, their software schedule, like everything is based on this big event in June.

00:40:18   So I don't know. I really don't know the answer here, but I think what's really important is that we start to ask the question.

00:40:26   And I'm sure they're doing this inside Apple, which is what is the alternative to a traditional WWDC if in 2020 there are still kind of some pretty serious travel restrictions as this virus is spreading?

00:40:42   I don't know.

00:40:43   It would be a great shame, you know, to not have the event, but they can, they can if they want, I mean, all of the things like setting up the roadmap, like they can do all of that, right?

00:40:55   That they can do that presentation.

00:40:57   They can.

00:40:58   From their campus, right?

00:40:59   Like they can do it from the Steve Jobs Theater and they can do the keynote that they want to do.

00:41:03   Yep.

00:41:04   And then they can, you know, they're a big company.

00:41:06   They can create some kind of system, you know, like if they want to allow for during that week period of time, there's like an online system which could replace the speaking to developers.

00:41:16   You know, like I'm sure there's something they could do there or they could just not do that.

00:41:22   And that WWDC 2020 is we have a bunch of presentations that we're going to do for you that are all going to be online and that's, that's all it's going to be.

00:41:29   Because I can imagine them not wanting to create a precedent of allowing for the type of labs to be done online.

00:41:36   Right.

00:41:37   Because it's unsustainable for them, I would assume, because their engineers need to engineer and, you know.

00:41:44   Yeah, my gut feeling is that they really, you know, want to keep going and figure that after a few months, this is all going to kind of be a moot point.

00:41:53   But, and I do wonder if they have always had a what if plan in place and if they haven't, they really ought to get one.

00:42:01   There has to be one.

00:42:02   There has to be one.

00:42:03   I feel like their fallback plan would probably be to cancel it, do a press event, and probably do some sort of thing where they are sending out engineers into various regions for, you know, a road tour kind of thing.

00:42:22   But, you know, it's possible that we, you know, we live in a world now where there are these virus emergencies that happen and the world goes on lockdown and it's just enough to finally cause that change where people say, hey, maybe flying a lot of people all over is wasteful and expensive and we don't need to do it and we can just use the internet.

00:42:45   Maybe this is the thing that pushes that over the edge.

00:42:47   I don't know.

00:42:49   This episode is brought to you by our friends over at Pingdom from SolarWinds.

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00:44:33   There is a Ming-Chi Kuo report that's breaking as we're recording this show that 2021 will see the first Mac with an ARM processor.

00:44:41   If you will allow me to read this quote, which was republished by MacRumors from Ming-Chi Kuo.

00:44:47   We expect that Apple's new products in the 12 to 18 months will adopt processors made by a 5nm process,

00:44:54   including the new 5G iPhone and iPads equipped with Mini-LED coming in the second half of 2020.

00:45:00   That's an interesting thing there. That's a little tipper.

00:45:03   We're talking about that potential of our iPad.

00:45:06   Maybe there is going to be a new screen technology to it, too.

00:45:09   This is me talking, not Ming-Chi Kuo.

00:45:11   I will go back to what Ming-Chi Kuo said now.

00:45:13   And the new 2021 first half of the year Mac equipped with their own design processor.

00:45:18   We think that iPhone 5G support iPads adoption of innovative midsize panel technology

00:45:24   and Mac's first adoption of their own design processor are Apple's critical product and technology strategies.

00:45:30   So this is something, a few things in here to unpack.

00:45:32   5G iPhone, we figured we knew that.

00:45:35   We knew, we believed there will be iPads this year.

00:45:37   And we were talking about the idea of a second iPad later in the year with 5G support,

00:45:42   while Ming-Chi Kuo is saying that this may also be what has been rumored to be the Mini-LED.

00:45:46   So when you use screen technology, that would be interesting if they did that.

00:45:50   Yeah, maybe that's not on the iPad Pro, though.

00:45:52   Maybe that's on a different model that replaces the kind of mid-range iPad.

00:45:57   Well, now, if that's a better technology, wouldn't it be strange to not see it come to the Pro first?

00:46:03   Mm-hmm.

00:46:04   But we don't know, though.

00:46:05   And also, so the key part of this, though, is 2021, a Mac equipped with Apple's own design processor,

00:46:11   benefiting on the 5nm process coming in the A14 chips.

00:46:17   So what do you think about this?

00:46:18   I mean, this is much more of a timeline than anybody else has been able to provide, I feel like.

00:46:25   And, you know, Ming-Chi Kuo is not always spot on,

00:46:28   but has a very proven track record of getting things within a time period, right?

00:46:35   What do you think about this?

00:46:36   We've been waiting for it.

00:46:37   It'll mean that all of my predictions of 2020 ARM Macs will be wrong again.

00:46:43   Although it's possible—

00:46:44   Well, yes and no, a 2020 shipping Mac doesn't mean you won't find out about it in 2020.

00:46:52   It's possible.

00:46:53   Like, this could be part of the conversation.

00:46:54   They could announce that they're doing this even at WWDC in June if it happens.

00:46:59   So I think, you know, we've been waiting for it.

00:47:04   And I don't think that this necessarily means that all Apple products are going to go right away or all to Apple's own design processors.

00:47:12   I think the Mac has some challenges on the high end in terms of ARM processors,

00:47:18   but it's clearly a direction that they've been going, and they want—look at it.

00:47:22   I did a chart, this weird chart on Six Colors last week about price and performance compared to Geekbench.

00:47:28   And, you know, Mac laptops don't fare very well, is the short version of it.

00:47:36   They don't fare very well because they don't have—like, the iPad processors are more powerful.

00:47:44   And this is a challenge for Apple.

00:47:46   This is a real challenge for Apple.

00:47:52   So, like, we were talking about the AMD potential recently.

00:47:58   Right.

00:47:59   I mean, I was—my thinking is, like, it feels like everything is on the table right now still.

00:48:05   Like, I still see all of these things happening.

00:48:07   Like, I can still imagine a future where some MacBook Pros or Mac Pros or iMacs get processor options that are not Intel processors,

00:48:19   whilst also moving to ARM on the entry-level products.

00:48:25   Right?

00:48:26   It's possible.

00:48:28   I mean, this is the mystery, is what all goes ARM.

00:48:33   I'm really skeptical about the idea that Apple is going to very quickly just go to all ARM,

00:48:38   all Apple-designed processors across all the Macs.

00:48:40   I don't think it's going to happen.

00:48:41   But who knows?

00:48:45   I don't know.

00:48:45   It's fascinating.

00:48:46   We are entering a real era of uncertainty, and it's been clear that it was coming for a long time.

00:48:51   But we don't know what Apple's strategy is going to be.

00:48:53   My gut feeling is that Apple's strategy is going to be focused on consumer models, on mobile,

00:48:59   because you get big power benefits there, and there aren't the needs for the highest of high-end performance.

00:49:05   But what we've seen with the iPad Pro processor, which, keep in mind, is more than a year old now,

00:49:11   is Apple can make a processor that has the power that the laptop market,

00:49:17   that all but the highest end of the laptop market needs.

00:49:21   And so why not?

00:49:24   Like, everything but the high-end MacBook Pro and the Mac Pro, maybe?

00:49:31   There was a report from Mark Gurman at Bloomberg this past week stating that Apple is considering

00:49:38   allowing users to set their own default apps for web browsers and mail apps specifically.

00:49:46   It's worth considering that if they were to allow web browsers like Chrome to become the standard web browser,

00:49:51   they would be using WebKit, because that is something that is in the Apple guidelines for iOS.

00:49:56   Right?

00:49:57   Like, you can't use your own web engine.

00:50:01   You have to use WebKit.

00:50:02   And Chrome, for example, on iOS does use WebKit.

00:50:05   But it comes with features of, for example, of having all of your tabs synced with Chrome on the desktop,

00:50:09   that kind of stuff, right?

00:50:11   Which is how I used it for so long, but now I'm all in on Safari because of iPadOS.

00:50:15   But it was a thing that you could do.

00:50:17   So this seems like a thing that would inevitably happen.

00:50:24   It feels like something we've been asking about for a very long time.

00:50:28   But it kind of feels like there is an increase, again, in talking about antitrust.

00:50:34   Like Spotify, we're going to talk about music in a minute, but Spotify has already come after Apple, right,

00:50:38   for kind of locking down and holding the platform for themselves.

00:50:44   Do you think that this is kind of a, if Apple were to do this, a move against potential legislation coming their way in the future?

00:50:51   - I think Apple sees which way the wind is blowing in terms of people, you know,

00:51:01   regulators and politicians talking about regulating big tech and looking at some of Apple's practices and questioning them.

00:51:12   And while some of the questioning that happens seems weird, like questionable to me, like that doesn't make sense,

00:51:22   I think if you're Apple, you want to have a conversation about like what you are doing and try to, you know,

00:51:27   you want to try and narrow the scrutiny.

00:51:30   So this is an interesting example of Apple, you know, maybe already thinking about doing it, but this is a way to get it prioritized, right?

00:51:37   This is a way to be like, "Well, we could do this, but why?"

00:51:40   And then it's like, "Well, oh, here's why," is that everybody is really scrutinizing us.

00:51:44   And if we do this, we can look all magnanimous and say, "No, no, no, of course, the App Store is a fair competition and you can, you know, we're going to do this."

00:51:53   They may also anticipate that, you know, the EU or something is going to require stuff like this.

00:51:59   You know, they're already dealing with this issue about if the EU is going to require the iPhone to have a USB-C port on it,

00:52:05   which is a very complicated issue about like whether they say that the charger has to be USB-C or whether the phone end has to be USB-C and if an adapter is okay or not.

00:52:15   Like there's all these issues, but like it's an example where a regulator could potentially force Apple to change its designs.

00:52:22   And that's really unpleasant and scary if you're Apple.

00:52:25   So I think they want to get out ahead here on some of this and say, "Look, no, no, no, we're not bad.

00:52:32   We are providing an open platform for people who make alternatives to what we're doing."

00:52:38   And I do think that it's a mixture with Apple of wanting control, but also just not thinking that it's worth spending the effort to open things.

00:52:48   I do think that's a part of it is just why prioritize this?

00:52:53   Not so much, "No, we must fight to keep control," as much as it's like, "Yeah, well, we built it so that we controlled it,

00:52:58   and now we would have to put effort into making it less controlled by us, so we're not going to prioritize that and sort of shrug it off."

00:53:06   And we live now in an environment where they need to not do that.

00:53:11   -Apple is also considering allowing users to choose their own default music streaming service for the HomePod.

00:53:17   This could potentially also be an option on iOS.

00:53:19   So, for example, instead of needing to say to your HomePod, "Play something on Spotify," you would just say, "Play something," and it would start.

00:53:27   This is exactly how the Amazon Echo works.

00:53:30   It comes as default set to Amazon Music, but you can go into the Alexa app and change to, you know, Apple Music, Spotify, and the like.

00:53:39   And then when you ask for music, it will just play it from the service that you have asked it to play it from,

00:53:44   which I would say, as a user, is a much nicer experience.

00:53:50   I use very few of the default Apple apps, you know, and I've kind of got used to it over time.

00:53:57   And I would love when I press the button, a link in Safari, to send an email for it not to open the Mail app.

00:54:04   I want it to open my chosen email app.

00:54:07   When I see a message and I get, you know, it highlights a little date to add to a calendar,

00:54:14   I would like it, when I tap that, to open Fantastic Cal and not Apple's calendar.

00:54:18   So I would love this.

00:54:20   You know, as a company that really champions third-party application development,

00:54:25   this is just a great way to show how great the development platform is, right?

00:54:28   Like, and if you want your apps to be used by your customers, make them as good as they could possibly be.

00:54:36   And my hope would genuinely be, right, that, like, if Apple did have to do this or decides to do this,

00:54:43   it may also have the secondary benefit of Apple's default apps becoming better, which would be lovely.

00:54:50   But my question on this, Jason, is, web browsers and mail apps, that is not enough.

00:54:56   I want to see calendar, messaging, task manager, contacts, camera, and notes as well, just as a start.

00:55:03   - I see what you're saying.

00:55:05   I think web browser and email are the most important,

00:55:11   because they're the most embedded.

00:55:13   Like, the web browser is the big one, because it's like, what do you do with a link?

00:55:17   What do you do with a link?

00:55:19   And there are ways for apps to register for links, and there are links that just go to the web.

00:55:27   And so you've got to have the web browser to be able to say, you know what, no, I want to use Chrome.

00:55:31   I want Chrome to open everything, because I use Chrome on the desktop,

00:55:35   and I want, you know, all the reasons that you have used Chrome in the past.

00:55:39   I want that.

00:55:40   I don't want to have this confusing system.

00:55:41   I don't want to have individual apps have to implement their own ask me what browser I should use thing.

00:55:48   That's stupid.

00:55:48   Like, you should be able to change it, and then they'll go there.

00:55:50   And similarly, email, if I click on an email link, no, maybe you're not going to be able to slide up that email sheet

00:55:57   and have it be there automatically from out of Apple Mail.

00:56:00   But right now, if people aren't using Apple Mail, they get that sheet anyway, and it's bad, because it doesn't work right,

00:56:05   because it's not set up.

00:56:06   So, you know, if the behavior changes so that when you tap on that link, it switches you to the Gmail app or whatever,

00:56:14   or some other third-party app, then that's a better user experience.

00:56:18   And everybody else who doesn't set that can have it be the Apple Mail experience.

00:56:23   I think beyond that, you could set up other apps, but I just, I feel like the default is not as relevant for a lot of them.

00:56:35   Like, there are fewer cases where you tap somewhere and you're swept away to a different Apple app.

00:56:42   But yes, in the long run, any case like that, you would want to be able to have it be taken over.

00:56:48   I think actually what needs to happen is that there needs to be...

00:56:51   This is related to a piece I wrote on Macworld last week, week before,

00:56:57   which is about having choice for files, opening files in iOS in different places.

00:57:04   Like, it's so...

00:57:05   We've got a file manager on the iPad, but it's so stupid compared to the Mac in terms of what it allows you to open.

00:57:12   And it's like user choice.

00:57:14   So letting users choose what apps open what files, and letting users choose what kinds of links open where,

00:57:22   there should just be an interface for that.

00:57:24   And then there should be an API for that.

00:57:25   - It's actually, Android has a really elegant solution for this.

00:57:29   Like, when you open a file, it gives you the applications that can understand it,

00:57:33   which is what Mac, the Mac does, which is what Windows does.

00:57:37   I mean, the way that iOS does it is really ugly right now,

00:57:40   where it just gives you this long list, right?

00:57:43   Which is just terrible.

00:57:44   And a lot of the applications are completely irrelevant.

00:57:47   And then it just says, like, do you want to always open files in this application?

00:57:52   You can just say yes or no.

00:57:54   It's very simple.

00:57:55   And then you can go into Settings and change them.

00:57:57   I would like to see that kind of thing happen on iOS as well, right?

00:58:01   Like, I completely agree with you.

00:58:04   - Some of the ones that I mentioned, right, they aren't completely obvious.

00:58:07   Like, Canada messaging tasks, contacts, camera notes, right?

00:58:11   That was the list.

00:58:11   A lot of them, honestly, it's just setting defaults

00:58:13   so Siri will put things in the right place, right?

00:58:15   - Yeah, sure. - So I don't have to say, like, in Todoist.

00:58:18   Like, if I just say set a task, right, like, it doesn't go to Todoist.

00:58:21   Camera is one of the bigger ones for me.

00:58:22   So, like, basically all of the system built-in shortcuts to bring up a camera, right?

00:58:27   Like, maybe I would want to bring up a different camera application, right?

00:58:30   Like, the home screen thing, the messages app,

00:58:33   like, all that kind of stuff would be kind of nice.

00:58:35   But the majority of these would be just setting, like,

00:58:38   where the system saves things via Siri or whatever.

00:58:41   But I am in agreement with you that web browsers and email apps

00:58:45   should be the start of this because they are the ones

00:58:48   that are the most linked to random places in the system.

00:58:52   - Right. - Right?

00:58:53   So it would be really nice to see this.

00:58:55   It would be really nice to see Apple open this up.

00:58:58   But it also feels like something that potentially inevitably

00:59:01   they're going to have to do anyway.

00:59:03   So they may as well start work on it before they're forced to,

00:59:07   which I think is probably the best thing to do.

00:59:09   All right, let's finish up this episode with some #AskUpgrade questions.

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01:00:41   and all of Relay FM.

01:00:43   We have some #AskUpgrade questions.

01:00:47   First comes from Alexi, who says, Myke, you have said many times

01:00:51   that all email clients are terrible.

01:00:53   What for you makes them terrible and how would you fix them

01:00:56   or what would you add?

01:00:57   So this is my old adage.

01:00:58   I have retweeted this tweet of mine many times, and it's usually because

01:01:02   I'm upset about something, which is quite simply, all email apps are bad.

01:01:07   I don't understand why this occurs, but it does.

01:01:11   Like everybody has their own preferences for email,

01:01:16   how they like to manage email, what they want their email app to do.

01:01:19   And it feels like no email application can answer anybody's specific

01:01:24   requirements, but they could have them solved by two, right?

01:01:27   That you could be like,

01:01:29   I'm this email app works perfectly for me except for this one thing.

01:01:33   And then you find another app.

01:01:34   Oh, this app does that one thing, but it doesn't do the other thing.

01:01:38   You know, there is no email app that is truly good.

01:01:41   I would like to point people to I'll do some follow out and ask upgrade

01:01:45   to episode number

01:01:48   18 of ADAPT here on Relay FM, where Federico dives

01:01:53   into a bunch of third party email apps on iOS and has many struggles

01:01:59   because he has a list of requirements and cannot get them filled.

01:02:02   I basically just feel that like email apps are complicated

01:02:06   and they do require lots of preferences, and that is what it is. Right.

01:02:09   And it's just a case of like.

01:02:12   They won't do everything that you want, therefore making them bad.

01:02:16   That is my feeling on why email apps are bad.

01:02:19   OK. Josh asks, which is your least favorite Apple app icon on iOS?

01:02:26   Do you have one, Jason?

01:02:28   Of all of the apps that Apple ships on the iOS platform.

01:02:31   You go first and I'll think about it.

01:02:34   Mine is remote because it just feels lazy.

01:02:36   It's just like a gray icon with the Apple TV remote on it.

01:02:42   Like it's just not very good.

01:02:44   I do want to give an honorary mention to the camera app icon here.

01:02:48   I feel like more could be done considering how beautiful the photos icon is.

01:02:53   Like I feel like in 2020,

01:02:57   nobody really uses cameras that look like the camera app icon.

01:03:03   Like let's not do to cameras what we did to email, where email icons are letters.

01:03:12   Physical letters, which email never has been.

01:03:15   Right. So why don't we make camera app icons look like cameras on the back

01:03:21   of smartphones instead? Right.

01:03:24   Like they don't need to look like SLR cameras.

01:03:27   That is my that is my request here.

01:03:30   Like I would like the camera app icon to mirror the camera

01:03:34   on the back of my phone because I think that would look super cool.

01:03:37   So that is how I feel on that one.

01:03:40   All right. Let's talk color.

01:03:42   The phone app is, by the way, a picture of an old phone handset.

01:03:47   Which is funny.

01:03:48   It's green.

01:03:49   And so the SMS app on the iPhone originally was also green

01:03:53   because they were kind of linked.

01:03:54   It's now messages.

01:03:56   It's now mostly about iMessage.

01:03:58   iMessages are blue.

01:04:00   Yeah.

01:04:02   So I'm going to answer this question in a creative way, which is Josh.

01:04:06   My least favorite Apple app icon is messages because it should be blue.

01:04:11   I think that's a great answer, Jason.

01:04:13   That's very good.

01:04:14   Johan has a very topical question regarding ARM Macs.

01:04:18   We have a couple about ARM Macs today, actually.

01:04:21   So Johan says, do you think that Apple may have asked Adobe to develop an iOS

01:04:26   version of Photoshop so that it's ready for a potential ARM Mac transition?

01:04:30   I can't imagine Apple launching a Mac that could not run Photoshop.

01:04:34   So the answer is no.

01:04:35   The chip doesn't matter as much as the platform.

01:04:41   That you're developing it for.

01:04:42   Mac apps will be able to be recompiled to run on ARM.

01:04:46   And so I can't imagine Photoshop on an ARM Mac being based on Photoshop for iOS.

01:04:53   It'll be based on Photoshop for Mac OS and it'll be recompiled to run on ARM.

01:04:56   Also, it's worth noting that, you know, Microsoft are working on ARM

01:05:01   processes as well, right?

01:05:02   So like Adobe is very aware of the fact.

01:05:04   Yeah.

01:05:04   There's an ARM version of Windows.

01:05:05   It's that's, that's what's going on.

01:05:07   It's not, I would say not related.

01:05:10   We do have another question about, um, yeah, this comes from Lee.

01:05:13   Lee is confused because Leah says, if my iPhone, a 12 chip is as fast as a

01:05:19   laptop processor already, of all of the extra space and power available in a

01:05:24   laptop body, why wouldn't Apple just now dump two or four of them in a laptop and

01:05:28   give me something that is fast as a rocket ship?

01:05:30   Like what is the, what is the holdup?

01:05:32   Um, well, first off, I don't think you can just stick a bunch of chips in a

01:05:37   laptop and say that it's faster.

01:05:39   I think that's not how it works.

01:05:41   And if you look at the way that the processor and the iPad pro, uh, runs,

01:05:45   it is a custom built for the iPad pro and is different, has more cores

01:05:49   and all, all those sorts of things.

01:05:51   Um, there is some truth in this.

01:05:54   Um, I think the challenge is that you have to build a whole system around it.

01:05:59   And these processors, at least up to now, were not built for Mac OS and you have to

01:06:05   compile it, you do have to compete, recompile the software and there's,

01:06:07   there's a lot that goes into a platform transition and it's a mess and you can't

01:06:11   just sort of like take a chip off the line and stick it in, although I will

01:06:14   bet you that Apple does have iPhone processors in Mac prototypes running Mac

01:06:20   OS in their lab, but when they do this for real, they're going to do it.

01:06:24   It's a big, it's a big endeavor and they want to get it right.

01:06:27   And they want that first processor to be custom built for the Mac.

01:06:31   And my guess is, you know, there's enough of a turnaround time that, you know, they,

01:06:36   they probably have that processor, but it's not ready to roll out

01:06:39   because they can't make it yet.

01:06:41   So it's, it's a, it's a, it's coming, it's coming.

01:06:45   But, um, I would say it's more complicated than maybe your thinking because there

01:06:51   are a lot of moving parts and you can't just sort of throw some iPhone chips in

01:06:55   a Mac and say, it's good enough.

01:06:57   Yeah.

01:06:57   There's a lot of like stuff around all of it, right?

01:07:01   Like that would need to be looked at.

01:07:03   Like for example, what would graphics look like?

01:07:06   Yeah.

01:07:06   Right.

01:07:06   Did Apple have to work on something on their own there?

01:07:09   Like what are they going to do?

01:07:10   Right.

01:07:10   Like there's a lot that goes into it.

01:07:12   It isn't just as simple as like taking an Intel processor out and putting an ARM

01:07:16   processor in, you have to basically start from the beginning as you should.

01:07:20   Right.

01:07:21   Because you want to make sure that if you're going to do this, you, you really

01:07:25   make it worth it.

01:07:26   And if the processes are faster, like how much faster can you make them?

01:07:30   You know, and I think that that's probably what Apple's working on because whenever

01:07:33   they do this, they really want it to seem like a no brainer for people.

01:07:37   And if it's a mobile processor, it's all about balancing the power, you know, with

01:07:42   the power efficiency, with the speed of the processor that you want it to be power

01:07:46   efficient.

01:07:46   You want these to last a long time.

01:07:49   And on the, you know, we've, we've seen them build multiple cores where they've

01:07:53   got the efficiency cores and they've got the power cores and it switches between

01:07:57   them or it runs all of them depending on what you need.

01:07:59   And I imagine all of that is, is part of the consideration, but I, I really do

01:08:03   think that, you know, if you've got an A 13 and an A 13 X, um, you won't have like

01:08:08   the A 13 X or a 13 M in a Mac, it will probably be like, I keep saying this, but

01:08:14   I feel like it'll be like the M one or something like that.

01:08:16   They're going to call it.

01:08:17   It's a Mac processor.

01:08:18   It's a Mac processor.

01:08:19   It's not going to just be something that's off the, you know, it's also the one

01:08:23   that's in the iPad pro.

01:08:24   I mean, maybe possible that they have a completely new integrated system on a chip

01:08:28   anyway.

01:08:29   Right.

01:08:29   Yeah.

01:08:30   Yeah.

01:08:30   And actually I'll take that back.

01:08:31   It could be the same one that's in an iPad pro, uh, possibly I doubt it, but possibly

01:08:36   it's not going to be the same one that's in an iPhone because the that's too far.

01:08:40   It's too much.

01:08:40   Can you imagine like two day battery life?

01:08:45   Can you imagine?

01:08:48   Cause that could be possible, right?

01:08:50   I mean, you could get like 20 hours.

01:08:51   The batteries have so much bigger.

01:08:53   That six colors chart I made where it's sort of like the MacBook air, it's like

01:08:57   $1,100 and it is not that it's not very fast.

01:09:01   And the iPad pro is so much faster and that starts at 7 99.

01:09:05   And you know, a keyboard doesn't cost that much.

01:09:09   Like it's, it's like Apple is giving away power and battery life by not switching to

01:09:15   arm.

01:09:16   Oh man.

01:09:18   Uh, yeah.

01:09:19   I really hope that they do go for battery life over making them super thin.

01:09:25   Sure.

01:09:27   Right.

01:09:27   That's what I want.

01:09:28   Like, I think that's the key thing to do here.

01:09:30   Like if you want maximum portability, go for an iPad, but you can get like crazy

01:09:36   battery life on a Mac laptop running an arm chip.

01:09:38   That that's my hope.

01:09:39   Finally today, Andrew asks, do you think Apple should aggregate the different

01:09:44   volume controls on the iPhone to make it so you can see and change them all in one

01:09:48   place?

01:09:48   I find that my ringtone for instance is unexpectedly high.

01:09:52   I would like this because I don't know if you've ever tried to change ringtone

01:09:57   volume, but when you do that, it immediately plays your ringtone to show you how loud

01:10:02   the volume is.

01:10:03   Like if you go into settings, I typically don't want this to happen.

01:10:07   Like I think it'd be really nice if you just could long press on the volume UI in

01:10:11   control center and get controls for all of this.

01:10:14   Right.

01:10:14   So you could say like, I want my system volume to be like this.

01:10:17   I want my, uh, ringtone volume to be this, my alarm volume to be this.

01:10:22   Like I would quite like that.

01:10:23   Yeah.

01:10:24   I want to know what that would look like, but I do agree.

01:10:28   I've seen both sides, right?

01:10:29   Having a, having a single volume gets really frustrating.

01:10:32   I've, have you had that moment where you're like, I want to adjust the system

01:10:35   volume and not the alert volume.

01:10:36   And so you have to wait until like the voice speaks in Apple maps and then you

01:10:41   quickly change the volume.

01:10:42   Um, it's not great having two and having only one of them accessible at a time, but

01:10:48   at the same time, it's also not great having like multiple volume sliders and like

01:10:52   which one does what and all of that.

01:10:54   So it's a, it's a UI issue.

01:10:56   It's it's I hear you.

01:10:58   I get it, but, um, yeah, it's, it's frustrating.

01:11:02   If you'd like to send in a question for the end of the show, just send out a tweet

01:11:07   with the hashtag ask upgrade, and it may be included for a future episode.

01:11:10   Please send those in.

01:11:11   I'd love to get some loads for next week.

01:11:14   That'd be wonderful.

01:11:14   If you want to find Jason online, you can go to sixcolors.com and he is at Jason.

01:11:19   Now J S N E double L I am I Myke, I am Y K E.

01:11:24   The show is a part relay FM.

01:11:25   Uh, you can find this show many more over at relay.fm/shows.

01:11:29   Uh, thanks to Linode Pingdom and indeed for their support of this episode.

01:11:34   And of course to you.

01:11:35   For listening and thank you to everybody who sent in follow up.

01:11:38   We had a lot of wonderful follow up, a lot of wild follow up this week.

01:11:42   Uh, thank you everybody.

01:11:43   You took the time to do that.

01:11:44   It is greatly appreciated.

01:11:45   Uh, and we'll be back next time until then say goodbye.

01:11:48   Just now.

01:11:49   Goodbye everybody.

01:11:50   [Inaudible]

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