285: Mac Pros for Mac Pros


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:08   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 285. Today's show is brought to you by Direct Mail, Bombus, and DoorDash.

00:00:16   My name is Myke Hurley and I am joined on assignment by Mr. Jason Snell. Hello, Jason Snell.

00:00:21   Well, wait, assignment means that I'm not here, but I am here. So I'm just from a remote location, I don't know. You can't...

00:00:27   No one knows where I am. It's a hotel room. But I'm here. I'm here and I'm present.

00:00:31   Usually, Jason, when you're in hotel rooms, we have new Apple Harbor to talk about, but that's not happening today.

00:00:37   This is merely a vacation that you are on.

00:00:39   Yeah, I'm just on my way from one place to another.

00:00:42   But as we all well know, as is told by the Upgrade lore, Jason will never miss an episode, so here he is.

00:00:49   That's right. And also, nobody wants to talk about this, Myke, because we should do our Snell Talk question.

00:00:52   Thomas wants to know for the #SnellTalk question, "Jason, how is your phone oriented in your pocket? Is the screen facing you, away from you? Is it upside down or right side up?

00:01:03   Do you think about this or does it just go in any way it happens to be?"

00:01:07   I feel like we really... Every couple of years, we have one of these things where we talk about dock orientation and where you put your phone and all of these other things that are just personal preference.

00:01:17   And they all come out and everybody gets to share their opinion, but to please Thomas, I will say, I put my phone in my pocket with the screen facing inward,

00:01:29   because then if something hits me in the thigh, it is less likely to break the screen.

00:01:35   And with the top of the phone going in first, so that if I pull the phone out, it's in my hand in the right orientation.

00:01:46   There is absolutely no other way to put your phone in your pocket. This is the way to do it.

00:01:51   There are three other ways, plus I guess sideways if you have very large pockets, but don't do those other ways.

00:01:56   You put top of the phone facing down, screen towards you.

00:02:02   Because very rightly said, you do not want to break the screen, so bump it into something, you might break the screen.

00:02:09   And the other, with the phone facing down, as you say, when you take it out of your pocket, you don't have to do anything.

00:02:15   Right? Your phone, when you look at it, is in the correct orientation.

00:02:18   I cannot imagine, although I'm sure I'm going to find out, why anybody would want to do it any other way.

00:02:25   It is the only way.

00:02:26   Also, there's a legacy issue from when the headphone jack was on the bottom.

00:02:32   And if you're Alex Cox and you have a battery, you plug it in to the lightning port.

00:02:39   And so again, you would need it that way.

00:02:40   But it is true that it used to be that the headphone jack was on the top.

00:02:44   The first one.

00:02:45   And it was recessed in such a way that not all headphones would go, would fit.

00:02:51   So you needed an adapter if you were using some sort of headphones.

00:02:55   But it was only on the first iPhone that they did that.

00:02:58   It was a bad idea.

00:03:00   Yes.

00:03:01   Thank you so much to Thomas for that wonderful Snell Talk question.

00:03:04   You can, I nearly called it Hell Talk, which is like a different, that's a different thing.

00:03:08   Maybe we could do that for Halloween.

00:03:09   Summer of fun, send in your Hell Talk question for then.

00:03:13   #SnellTalk to get your question in to help us start a future episode.

00:03:19   Jason, would you permit me to do some follow out to a new project that I'm working on?

00:03:23   Plug away, Myke.

00:03:24   Plug away.

00:03:25   Thank you so much.

00:03:26   I have a brand new show here at Relay FM.

00:03:28   It's called The Test Drivers.

00:03:30   And it's myself and the amazing tech YouTuber, Austin Evans.

00:03:34   And on The Test Drivers, we dive in deep to tech of all kinds.

00:03:38   We put it through its paces.

00:03:39   New stuff, old stuff, weird stuff, good stuff.

00:03:42   We want to help you decide what your next daily driver should be.

00:03:45   That's the whole idea of the show is we want to take products, we want to use them,

00:03:48   we want to understand them across all technology, no matter who makes the product,

00:03:52   whether it's Google or Apple or Microsoft, Samsung, the whole tech landscape.

00:03:59   We want to go software, hardware, it doesn't matter if it's interesting, we want to talk about it.

00:04:02   We released episode one so far, which focuses on Samsung's new phones,

00:04:06   like the new S20, S20 Plus and S20 Ultra, because Austin got to spend some time with them.

00:04:11   So we talk about those.

00:04:12   And on episode two, we're going to be doing something that I'm really excited to talk about,

00:04:17   which is to basically how to try and understand how are you supposed to choose

00:04:22   what Android phone you want to buy if you want to buy an Android phone.

00:04:24   Like there's so much choice, they change so often.

00:04:27   How are you supposed to choose?

00:04:28   So that's going to be our second episode, along with some other stuff as well.

00:04:32   I also want to talk about whether folding phones really can be daily drivers right now.

00:04:36   So we'll talk about that on episode two, which is going to be out probably next week.

00:04:41   And recording every couple of weeks, so it'll be an episode every couple of weeks.

00:04:45   This is basically because I've wanted to do a show like this for a long time,

00:04:49   and Austin is like the perfect person to collaborate with on a project like this,

00:04:53   because I care about all of technology,

00:04:55   and I don't get to talk about all of technology everywhere, right?

00:04:59   Because like most of the shows that I do, we're mostly focused on Apple

00:05:02   and talking about the latest Android phones doesn't fit.

00:05:05   Plus, Jason doesn't want to talk about folding phones, so I had to find something that would--

00:05:07   I don't want to talk about folding phones. I don't.

00:05:09   - So-- - It's true.

00:05:10   Go to relay.fm/thetestdrivers,

00:05:12   or you can search for the test drivers in Apple Podcasts,

00:05:15   we're overcast, Pocketcast, everywhere.

00:05:18   We have tons of awesome stuff in the works for this show.

00:05:21   We have lots of grand ideas and big, big, big thoughts.

00:05:24   So it would mean a lot to me if you checked it out.

00:05:26   I think me and Austin have a great chemistry together, so I think you may enjoy it.

00:05:29   So go to relay.fm/testdrivers or the test drivers, whichever one you prefer.

00:05:34   They both work because it's impossible to remember URLs sometimes.

00:05:38   So go check it out.

00:05:40   I have some long-term follow-up, very long-term follow-up.

00:05:43   This follow-up was so long-term that I read it and was like, "That's interesting."

00:05:47   And then Jason sent me an email demanding we put it in the show.

00:05:50   So this follow-up comes from ATDL.

00:05:55   That was the name on the email, so that's the name that we will go with.

00:05:59   Would you like-- I'm just going to read it.

00:06:01   I'm going to read it out. Let me talk about it.

00:06:04   This is follow-up from episode 35 of Upgrade.

00:06:08   At 14 minutes and 26 seconds, you addressed my question

00:06:12   as to whether you could imagine T9 input on the Apple Watch.

00:06:16   T9 input-- we'll break it away from the email for a moment.

00:06:19   T9 input is if you've ever used a phone like this or maybe you're just not aware of it,

00:06:24   where you would have a number pad, right?

00:06:26   One to nine when phones have physical buttons.

00:06:28   But characters two to zero or two to nine could be used for letters,

00:06:34   but they would be assigned in a weird order.

00:06:36   So for example, if you wanted to type the letter C,

00:06:39   you would have to press the number two three times, A, B, C.

00:06:43   And they had a little printing on them.

00:06:44   I remember this letter.

00:06:45   That's one of my reasons for wanting this in.

00:06:48   I really do remember this question because it took me aback.

00:06:51   It seemed like such a strange request, right?

00:06:53   Because it's kind of old-school text input.

00:06:55   But anyway, continue, continue.

00:06:57   The letter--

00:06:58   The reason you would maybe want to do it is because it allows you to put a somewhat functional

00:07:03   keyboard into a very small space, right?

00:07:06   Exactly.

00:07:07   So you can imagine.

00:07:08   This episode, which is a great title, is called "Where the Fluoroelastomer Meets the Road."

00:07:13   I don't know what that was about, but that was a good title for episode 35.

00:07:18   I guess we were talking about some kind of rubber.

00:07:20   The Apple Watch bands are fluoroelastomer.

00:07:22   That's what Apple wants to call them instead of rubber bands.

00:07:25   "Where the Rubber Meets the Road" is not rubber anymore.

00:07:28   It's fluoroelastomer.

00:07:29   Good times.

00:07:30   Episode 35.

00:07:31   Classic.

00:07:32   Classic, clearly.

00:07:33   We're still talking about it.

00:07:35   Two hundred and fifty episodes.

00:07:37   Literally 250 episodes later.

00:07:39   This is where this--

00:07:40   It's the grand episode 35 250th anniversary episode today.

00:07:45   That's what we're going with.

00:07:47   So anyway.

00:07:48   Yeah.

00:07:49   This is also a follow-out to "Connected 280 at 1 hour 22 minutes and 40 seconds."

00:07:54   Where Stephen Hackett mentioned he used the scribble function on the Apple Watch a fair

00:07:59   amount, which is where you can scribble with your fingers to type-- to put in characters.

00:08:05   And "Connected 281 at 1 minute and 33 seconds," where Federico discussed--

00:08:09   I love the time growth.

00:08:10   A popular-- I like keeping those in, because I love that they put them in there.

00:08:13   Where Federico discussed a popular new watch app called Flick Type, which is essentially

00:08:17   a swipe keyboard on the Apple Watch.

00:08:19   On episode 35 of Upgrade, Jason gave some good-natured ribbing about whether T9 made

00:08:24   sense.

00:08:25   I get it.

00:08:26   It's almost like asking if Apple should release a slide rule app in addition to its calculator

00:08:29   app.

00:08:30   But now that the Apple Watch has been around for almost exactly five years, I'm wondering

00:08:34   if you changed your mind.

00:08:35   Does Siri and Scribble really work well enough for Apple to cut the watch's tether to the

00:08:40   iPhone?

00:08:41   How often do you actually use the watch to compose messages?

00:08:44   And how much more often would you use it if there was some other key entry option available?

00:08:49   Steven seems to share Jason's view in 2015 that Apple has probably committed to Siri

00:08:54   and Scribble, and is unlikely to offer another option.

00:08:57   Myke seems to think that Apple should offer a native swipe keyboard.

00:09:00   That is true.

00:09:01   Myke does think that.

00:09:02   I personally find Siri and Scribble to be quite cumbersome to compose messages, and

00:09:06   I don't know how independent the watch can be about some other kind of text entry.

00:09:10   When I asked you about T9 in 2015, I thought I was being pretty modest.

00:09:14   I didn't dare to dream for a full-size swipe keyboard on that tiny, tiny screen.

00:09:18   So Jason, do you still stand by T9 being ludicrous for the Apple Watch?

00:09:23   How do you type or put entry text into the Apple Watch, and do you think there could

00:09:27   be a better way?

00:09:28   I think the T9 stuff is ludicrous only, and I'm glad that this letter writer thinks it

00:09:32   was good-natured, only because Apple, from Apple's perspective, it's like, why would

00:09:36   we provide compatibility with muscle memory from really old phones, even if it was effective?

00:09:41   But I think asking the question is, how do I do better text input?

00:09:44   And that's an important question.

00:09:46   Was Scribble there at the beginning?

00:09:48   I thought Apple added Scribble.

00:09:49   That's new.

00:09:50   Like in 2015, that wasn't a thing.

00:09:52   Maybe in the last couple of years.

00:09:54   Yeah, so that's part of it.

00:09:56   So Scribble is better, and in that Connected episode, Steven points out a really great

00:10:01   thing that you may not have noticed, which is if you start writing something in Scribble,

00:10:04   these little arrows come up, and you can actually either tap on that or you can use the crown,

00:10:08   and it's guessing what you're typing.

00:10:10   So there is autocomplete.

00:10:12   It's just super subtle.

00:10:13   Yeah, that blew my mind.

00:10:14   I had no idea that was a feature.

00:10:15   They should make a bigger point of that because that makes it even more useful.

00:10:19   Yeah, me too.

00:10:20   So I think I don't love Scribble.

00:10:24   It is frustrating to write something so slowly with your fingertip.

00:10:28   I found, and it's not really, you know, we call it Siri, it's dictation.

00:10:32   I think dictation, when it works on the Apple Watch, is pretty good.

00:10:35   There are still moments where I tap it and start to talk and it just doesn't register.

00:10:40   I don't know what that is and why that happens.

00:10:42   But sometimes whatever I do, whether it's a Siri input or whether it's just dictation,

00:10:48   it just can't talk to the server and it fails.

00:10:52   And that's frustrating.

00:10:53   But when it works, it actually works really well once you get the hang of saying, you

00:10:57   know, "Great!"

00:10:59   Wait a second, comma, let me think about it, question mark, right?

00:11:03   Once you learn to talk like that, you can do pretty well.

00:11:07   But I would say this Flick-type thing, it's a great idea.

00:11:12   And I agree with Steven that it's less likely that Apple will put it on there because Apple

00:11:17   is maybe too proud to do something like that on the Apple Watch and be ridiculed for it.

00:11:23   But I think it should be an option.

00:11:25   I think that app proves that it's doable and that for some people, they would rather kind

00:11:31   of have a keyboard analog.

00:11:33   And it is doing exactly what the original iPhone keyboard did, which is making a lot

00:11:38   of guesses about what word you're actually trying to type because your finger is big

00:11:41   and the keyboard is small and you're going to miss letters.

00:11:45   So I think it would be great if they would do it because this app is a great proof of

00:11:50   concept that they could.

00:11:53   But like Steven, I am skeptical that they actually will.

00:11:56   But I think it's a good point.

00:12:00   Your watch is not a phone, but a text input needs to happen from time to time.

00:12:08   I think the dictation is the right thing to do.

00:12:10   It's just that it is still not as reliable as it should be.

00:12:14   And Scribble is too slow for me anyway, which is why if I had the choice between Scribble

00:12:19   and Flick Type, I would choose Flick Type for sure.

00:12:22   It is a nicer way to input text.

00:12:24   Plus we're getting a lot of people are now starting to get used to it because Apple implemented

00:12:29   this method of typing into the iPhone keyboard.

00:12:32   So that's why I think they will do it because they have already worked on a system and they've

00:12:36   got it on one platform.

00:12:37   And I actually think it makes even more sense to have something like this on the Apple Watch

00:12:41   and the iPhone because it's a much more, in my opinion, forgiving typing system provided

00:12:48   it works correctly.

00:12:49   I think actually, and when I talk about Apple's pride, I think you've got the exact line in

00:12:53   there, which is it's not about putting a keyboard on the Apple Watch.

00:12:58   It's about putting swiping to type on the Apple Watch.

00:13:01   And then they can say, look, we did this on the iPhone and it worked really well.

00:13:04   So now we're adding it to the Apple Watch.

00:13:05   And it's not a commentary on scribble or dictation failing.

00:13:12   It's more an exciting new feature.

00:13:14   And honestly, Apple wants to do it that way.

00:13:17   Yeah.

00:13:18   It does not work in the idea of you meaning to hunt and peck.

00:13:22   That's ridiculous on the Apple Watch screen.

00:13:23   It's too small.

00:13:24   But having a keyboard as a way to allow you to do swipe typing, that makes a lot more

00:13:29   sense.

00:13:30   But TDL, thank you for this wonderful follow up.

00:13:33   I personally enjoyed the detail of it.

00:13:36   I really loved that you put timestamps in there.

00:13:38   That was just so wonderful.

00:13:39   And we'll check back with you in 250 episodes.

00:13:42   What for?

00:13:43   I don't know.

00:13:44   I don't know whether the brainwave interface into the Apple Watch is good enough.

00:13:48   Okay.

00:13:49   Who can say what the future brings, Myke?

00:13:50   But I'm sure there'll be something.

00:13:52   Jason, we also received another anonymous email from an Apple employee stating that, and I

00:13:58   quote, "Dongletown is a real place.

00:13:59   At Apple Park, we have a room where any employee can go to get whatever dongle they need.

00:14:04   This person sent us photographic evidence of these dongles wearing a dongletown t-shirt."

00:14:10   This was too good to not include in today's episode.

00:14:12   It was incredible.

00:14:13   Obviously, we can't share the image, but you can rest assured that me and Jason can attest

00:14:17   to its realness.

00:14:18   I have heard from many, multiple I should say, multiple Apple employees that the dongletown

00:14:25   t-shirt is a very popular t-shirt at Apple Park.

00:14:29   Evan is a place on earth and dongletown is a place in Cupertino.

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00:16:19   It's a wonderful thing when we have a sock sponsor, Myke.

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00:16:35   That's where we talked about socks for 30 minutes.

00:16:37   Jason, I want to talk to you about Mac Pros used by Mac Pros today.

00:16:42   Okay.

00:16:43   Is this the Mac Power users now?

00:16:45   Um, sure.

00:16:47   Kind of, actually.

00:16:48   It's a little cross over here.

00:16:49   I want to talk about the Mac Pro specifically used by Macintosh professionals.

00:16:55   Because recently Apple brought me into contact with a number of creative professionals to

00:17:01   demonstrate how the Mac Pro and the Pro Display XDR, especially at helping them evolve and

00:17:07   like expand their workflows into ways that they couldn't before.

00:17:11   So I have a bunch of stuff that I want to talk about.

00:17:13   But overall, what I actually really enjoyed about this experience is seeing how these

00:17:17   products are being used by the people that really need them.

00:17:21   And also the people that I think it's clear to see Apple are targeting with the Mac Pro.

00:17:25   Like real creative professionals.

00:17:27   To give you an idea of what I'm talking about here, I got to speak to Thomas Carter of Trim

00:17:32   Editing, who was actually previously on Mac Power Users when the Mac Pro came out.

00:17:37   He'd had one for a bit.

00:17:38   Luna Animation, an animation company who did some work on the recently released Jumanji

00:17:43   film.

00:17:44   Jason Hawkes, who is an aerial photographer who straps a Mac Pro into a helicopter and

00:17:49   hangs out the side of it and takes pictures.

00:17:51   One of the coolest people I've met in my entire life.

00:17:54   And also music producer Estelle Rubio, who uses a Mac Pro to record and master music.

00:17:59   And Estelle was doing something which was really surprising that I'll talk about in

00:18:03   a little bit.

00:18:04   But I want to talk about the Mac Pro first.

00:18:05   Because that was like, I think the whole reason that they wanted ideally to have people talking

00:18:11   to people like me to talk about why the Mac Pro is great for them.

00:18:14   This actually answers, I think, one of the underlying questions that we've had about

00:18:18   the Mac Pro since it was announced, which is, who exactly is the Mac Pro for?

00:18:25   Who did Apple design this product for?

00:18:28   Because it's probably not me and probably not you.

00:18:31   But you met them.

00:18:32   Thomas Carter I genuinely feel like, I mean I have a lot

00:18:34   to say on this now, but I genuinely feel like I have now met the people that this product

00:18:38   was made for.

00:18:40   So obviously we had like two people working in the video field.

00:18:45   And then they were really the ones who were making the most of the Mac Pro itself.

00:18:51   Estelle and Jonathan, the photographer and the music producer, they were mostly focused

00:18:54   on the Pro Display XDR and how that helps them, but also the MacBook Pro.

00:18:59   But the Mac Pro was clearly very focused around what you can do with it when looking at video,

00:19:05   whether it's editing or animation.

00:19:08   Obviously we know this, that the Mac Pro helps these people get their stuff done faster.

00:19:13   So everybody was talking about significant performance gains, whether it's exporting

00:19:17   and rendering or seeing more video feeds on the screen at once.

00:19:21   The more power you pack into a system, the more you're going to get out of it.

00:19:25   And that's what's going on.

00:19:27   We've heard people talk about this already, being able to use the actual 8K files rather

00:19:32   than reference files.

00:19:33   You can use this stuff in Final Cut because the machine can handle it.

00:19:38   And the time stuff is really good because if you imagine a render time being taken down,

00:19:43   it means that people can deliver their projects faster because it can handle more, there's

00:19:48   less back and forth.

00:19:50   So I watched this one demo from Luna Animation and they were showing this video that they'd

00:19:57   made for an iPhone game.

00:19:58   It was an animated video.

00:20:01   And they were showing me the animation app, Maya.

00:20:06   And what they were doing, they had this final footage of these skeletons coming out of the

00:20:11   ground.

00:20:12   And they had five skeletons coming out of the ground and running towards the screen.

00:20:16   Now when they were working on an iMac Pro on this, they couldn't in real time watch

00:20:21   and animate and adapt all five skeletons.

00:20:24   They'd have to do two at a time.

00:20:27   So you would animate two of them.

00:20:29   Then you'd go in and animate another two.

00:20:31   Then the last one.

00:20:32   Then you would have to render it down to a video file and make sure that they're not

00:20:36   accidentally colliding with each other.

00:20:38   Because you can't see all of them at the same time because the iMac Pro just couldn't handle

00:20:44   it.

00:20:46   But with the Mac Pro, they can do all of them at the same time.

00:20:50   So what was happening before is an animator would be animating part of a scene, rendering

00:20:56   it out, watching the video playback, taking notes, being like, "Oh, okay, so this timestamp,

00:21:02   one of them crosses over the other one.

00:21:03   I don't want that."

00:21:04   Then having to go back, make those adjustments, watch it again, make sure you see what I mean.

00:21:08   So there's like, it's not just you're saving time because it's faster and it can render

00:21:12   more at the end.

00:21:14   You're also having more capability during the work time.

00:21:18   So you're saving people's time by meaning they don't have to go back around and around

00:21:24   and around.

00:21:25   Sure.

00:21:26   So what I liked about this demo specifically is Maya is not an application made by Apple,

00:21:31   right?

00:21:32   So it is not as well optimized for the Mac Pro.

00:21:36   Like apparently they have been doing some optimizations, but it's not like final cut,

00:21:41   right?

00:21:42   So even applications that are not made by Apple and tuned specifically to work well

00:21:46   with the hardware, you can see benefits from it.

00:21:49   So I thought that was like a very interesting thing to see, that dropping this machine into

00:21:55   already existing setups will make substantial differences, right?

00:22:00   Which is what you would want because having to wait for the software to all just be updated,

00:22:04   I mean, it's not going to get you what you want, right?

00:22:08   Because then it's like that whole idea of buying hardware in the hope that software

00:22:12   will someday become better for it, which is like a terrible thing to do.

00:22:15   But because this machine can handle it, you're good.

00:22:20   So I really got a sense for why looking at stuff like this, that the Mac Pro can exist.

00:22:26   They were also showing how they could have multiple applications rendering things in

00:22:31   the background and they were using multiple screens, you know, like the, what is, it's

00:22:35   not Windows, the desktops, multiple desktops that have different apps running at a time.

00:22:40   So they'd have like this animation app rendering this thing, this animation app rendering this

00:22:44   thing and they were saying they just couldn't, you can't do that on the Mac Pro, it would

00:22:47   just slow down and sputter.

00:22:49   And they had a kind of, I don't remember the exact specs, but they had like a, what they

00:22:54   were showing all of this on was like one of the middle of the road ones, when it was like

00:22:57   13 or 15 grand, this Mac Pro.

00:22:59   So expensive, but they weren't showing me this on like the highest end machine, right?

00:23:04   It was like kind of the, what people seem to say is like, oh, this is the kind of amount

00:23:09   of money you'd want to spend on one of these things, right?

00:23:11   In the kind of 13 to 15,000 level to get that machine that's like the best of everything

00:23:17   that can be given without going into crazy territory.

00:23:22   So I really got the sense from all of this as to why the Mac Pro exists, like it feels

00:23:25   like Apple are making machines, like this machine specifically.

00:23:31   You know, I feel like in general, Apple computers now, the Mac especially, they are made with

00:23:37   the capability to serve people's needs at different levels, right?

00:23:41   So for most work, an iMac and a MacBook Air is what you need, right?

00:23:46   Because you're answering email, you're doing web browsing, right?

00:23:50   The consumer laptops can and do work for even people in working scenarios.

00:23:55   But then you have the MacBook Pro and the iMac Pro for more heavy tasks.

00:24:00   It's super sufficient, right?

00:24:01   So for me and you editing our shows, the iMac Pro can do it, right?

00:24:05   For app developers, MacBook Pro, iMac Pro, they can do it.

00:24:09   They can deal with it, right?

00:24:10   Like that, they, Apple kind of have that world covered now.

00:24:14   And I think it's become more clear to me having seen these very different, much more demanding

00:24:22   workflows and creative people that I can see that the Mac Pro, it was made for that type

00:24:27   of work.

00:24:28   It's a type of work that could not be delivered well enough on what Apple was offering, right?

00:24:35   And I feel like we can see that now.

00:24:37   Like people in these types of creative fields, which we can clearly see that Apple was positioned

00:24:42   in this line of products towards, they needed this more than anybody else because they couldn't

00:24:49   get their needs serviced by Apple because it just, the raw power or the expandability

00:24:54   was just not there.

00:24:57   And I understand, like trust me, I understand that there are people that want that hardware

00:25:01   like the Mac Pro.

00:25:03   The more time I spent looking at that thing, the more I want one because I think it's super

00:25:06   futuristic and cool looking.

00:25:09   But I know it's not for me.

00:25:11   It is out of my budget range to get it configured the way that I want.

00:25:16   And I'm cool with that because the hardware was not made for me.

00:25:20   Like I feel like I now have a better sense of why they designed it the way that they

00:25:25   did and have positioned it the way that they have because the type of people that needed

00:25:30   a machine like this, Apple just wasn't making it.

00:25:36   Modern animation were also kind of talking about how, they worked on the credit scene

00:25:41   for Jumanji, like the end credit scene, and they got like very, very short timelines.

00:25:47   This project came to them like super soon before it needed to be finished effectively,

00:25:53   which was an interesting thing to me.

00:25:55   I don't know why I didn't really ask because like I don't want to, I wonder why exactly

00:26:00   the movie studios do things the way that they do.

00:26:02   But they were saying that because they had the Mac Pro and the Pro Display, they could

00:26:05   accept this job.

00:26:06   If they didn't have it, they probably couldn't have accepted the job because they wouldn't

00:26:10   have had enough time to get like a reference monitor in the studio.

00:26:13   Like having the Pro Display meant that they didn't need to get that type of monitor, they

00:26:17   don't have one because we all know now they're really expensive.

00:26:21   And also there was just like large set of assets.

00:26:23   There's like this big wonderfully textured map which goes in the background of the credits

00:26:28   thing.

00:26:29   You've seen these kind of credit scenes, right?

00:26:30   Like it's the one where all the big stars are at the end and they've got all this animation

00:26:33   that's referring back to things you've seen in the movie.

00:26:36   And the iMac Pro would have taken too long for it to render and they wouldn't have been

00:26:40   able to see everything in real time but the Mac Pro let them do that.

00:26:44   Oh, the cost.

00:26:45   So this is super fascinating to me.

00:26:48   Cost is not a factor for some of these companies when the hardware is so powerful because, so

00:26:55   like this is like a thing, like how can X company afford for these $15,000 Mac Pros?

00:27:01   Well they lease them over multiple years so they're just paying an amount of money and

00:27:07   then at the end of the lease they'll decide whether they want to pay the rest or they'll

00:27:11   get a new machine.

00:27:12   That's how they've been doing it for years so they're still just leasing.

00:27:14   Maybe the lease is a little more expensive but they don't need to plop down $45,000 to

00:27:18   buy three of them, right?

00:27:19   They're just maybe making their lease a bit more expensive.

00:27:22   But they're saying like at the end of the lease now if they buy that machine the expandability

00:27:26   of the Mac Pro means they probably don't need to get a new computer next year, just new

00:27:30   parts.

00:27:31   So on the long term these could be way better for them, right?

00:27:36   But the thing that opened my eyes the most was so a company like Lunar Animation who

00:27:40   are making animation that they make stuff like for iPhone games, they make stuff for

00:27:46   movie studios, right?

00:27:48   The software licenses they need per animator is $16,000 a year.

00:27:53   A year.

00:27:55   Right?

00:27:56   So they showed me this chart of hardware, there's like three graphs, hardware, software,

00:28:03   animator and the lowest portion even when buying these Mac Pros is hardware is the least

00:28:07   expensive, software is the middle and the animator is the most expensive part.

00:28:12   So if you're paying that much for software you want it to run on the best hardware you

00:28:16   can get it on and also animators are so expensive that if you can make their time more productive

00:28:23   by having them wait around for less stuff you're making money back, right?

00:28:28   That's the calculation that I think is the most important for a lot of this Pro stuff

00:28:31   is you've got a hopefully highly paid professional person using that as their tool and if you

00:28:41   pay money to make them more productive you're saving money.

00:28:46   It's actually a fairly simple math calculation that if you can make them more productive

00:28:50   because they're no longer waiting around for some period of time then it's worth spending

00:28:55   the money to do it just because in the end you're paying them to not work when they're

00:29:00   waiting because your tech isn't good enough.

00:29:03   And I feel like I knew that before but I always just thought like oh they'll save a few

00:29:10   minutes here and there because the render's faster but the thing that really opened my

00:29:14   eyes was to this idea of multiple applications can be worked on in the same time so while

00:29:19   you're waiting for one thing to render you can go to the other and previous machines

00:29:22   just couldn't cope with the load of a lot of different types of applications being run

00:29:27   at the same time.

00:29:28   But also that idea of being able to see more assets in real time on a screen because it

00:29:34   can be powered is a big difference because that means that you're not having to go back

00:29:40   over the same thing multiple times.

00:29:43   That's where the time savings are where before my expectation was like yeah but if it's faster

00:29:49   rendering like yeah maybe you can do it in a third at a time but really how much is that

00:29:53   but it's way more than that it's throughout the entire production process the time it's

00:29:58   being saved and for a small company that is massively important because they're probably

00:30:03   paying a lot of their animators by the hour and so you know right like it helps.

00:30:12   Proteus Play XDR like that was something that everyone was talking about like stuff we already

00:30:15   knew right that oh I got to see the nano texture it's beautiful oh my god Jason.

00:30:22   I've seen it.

00:30:23   Oh my god oh my god I love it I absolutely love it that is a beautiful screen and I was

00:30:28   seeing some HDR stuff so Thomas was showing me a commercial that he'd been working on

00:30:36   and it was like a dark room but there was some lights in it and the lights were so bright

00:30:41   in this dark room it kind of looked like someone just cut a hole in the monitor and the light

00:30:45   was coming through it it was bananas like super super awesome I want one of those displays

00:30:51   so bad but have nothing to use for that right like I did but you know obviously the reference

00:30:58   mode they're a big deal for cinematic work right because if you're working on something

00:31:02   that's meant to be seen in a specific way you can see it right and this is what I was

00:31:06   saying earlier about how this like Jumanji project could be taken on because you know

00:31:11   the client the studio needed it to be seen in a certain way in a certain reference mode

00:31:16   that is built into the protos play XDR so they can just do the work in the modes that

00:31:21   they like and then flick over and see how it looks in this cinematic mode and they're

00:31:24   good and I mentioned earlier the music producer Estelle she was using the 16-inch MacBook

00:31:29   Pro to do things I didn't even never even thought could be done in logic right like

00:31:34   these hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of tracks like I use like four tracks in logic

00:31:39   but the thing that was wild to me is she had used the new microphone system to record an

00:31:44   acoustic guitar just and she was just like oh what can it do and she was so happy with

00:31:49   the result and I heard it it sounded fantastic when it overlaid with a bunch of other stuff

00:31:53   in a track she's releasing music that has been she has used the microphone in the 16-inch

00:32:00   MacBook Pro to record so like she loves the way that sounds so much and it did sound great

00:32:06   that she can now just record in a hotel room or whatever and can just put that into a track

00:32:10   that she's releasing and it was just like alright like I you know we know from this

00:32:15   show we tested it right like in spoken word in podcasting it's okay but I wouldn't want

00:32:21   to use it right like in a pinch I could but when used in a situation like music where

00:32:28   you've got like a bunch of things happening at once the downsides of it are taken away

00:32:33   like because it's it's over overall smoothed out by everything else that's happening around

00:32:38   so I just thought it sounded super cool but so yeah that was some stuff that I just wanted

00:32:42   to share because I feel like having spoken to these people that work in these fields

00:32:48   my mindset has been shifted a little bit on what these who these who these products have

00:32:53   been made for in a way that I think Apple wanted to communicate so I wanted to share

00:33:00   it. For sure it's interesting because like I mean this is really just sort of explaining

00:33:05   like why why did they make the choice they made in terms of who they're targeting with

00:33:09   the with the Mac Pro and the Pro Display and this is this is the people that they're trying

00:33:16   to reach with this which is you know it doesn't I think really address the other part of this

00:33:22   which is is there a is there a hole in the market that's not really being served by Apple

00:33:26   that this product doesn't fill and that that's why people are unhappy with the choices they

00:33:31   made but it does point to these people and say this is you know this is why we built

00:33:37   this product is these people had a need that was not being fulfilled by any existing Mac.

00:33:41   Yeah like I think the whole is like there there are people that want a machine like this

00:33:46   right but don't need a lot of the power that Apple built into it but I think it's up to

00:33:52   them if they want to make that like I don't think the need is there in the same way that

00:33:59   it was for these types of people right where like the need is otherwise I can't use a Macintosh

00:34:04   anymore right which is like a very different thing and I don't know how much of Apple's

00:34:10   priority is in the idea of like people want a specific type of computer because it's the

00:34:15   type of computer they want I don't know I don't I can't tell how much they would care

00:34:21   about that right maybe they would a lot maybe they wouldn't maybe they kind of would I don't

00:34:26   know I know that I personally think that it would be super cool to own a machine like that

00:34:32   right that like if the Mac Pro was a thing that started at much cheaper prices right

00:34:39   like if it started at $2500 and you could get something like the iMac Pro for like $6000

00:34:45   $5000 maybe that's a machine that I would own right but because I like the aesthetics

00:34:51   of it and I like the I really genuinely do like the idea of being able to upgrade that

00:34:55   machine myself like having seen I mean I've been watching just lots of YouTube videos

00:35:02   about because I like watching the iMac Pro the Mac Pro being taken apart I can't explain

00:35:06   why I just think it's beautiful inside like I would be able to update that on my own and

00:35:10   that is like a super appealing thing and I know why people would want to do that but

00:35:15   I just don't know if like that is a machine that Apple particularly wants to make and

00:35:19   we're kind of referring to this idea of like a budget tower the x Mac as it's been called

00:35:26   for so many years right I think I think John Syracusa coined that phrase right I don't

00:35:31   know it's been around a long time I'm just gonna say John claimed it in case he did and

00:35:35   then would be upset at me and provide follow-up and it's way better to have the follow-up

00:35:39   be no it wasn't me then it was me and how dare you disrespect me so I'm just gonna say

00:35:44   that John Syracusa came up with the term x Mac but this idea of like a smaller tower

00:35:49   right like and I know why people would want it but now I feel like I understand why much

00:35:53   more the the Mac Pro exists good all right should we take a break and talk about malware

00:35:59   everyone's favorite subject oh yes let's do that I love it today's show is brought to

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00:37:23   and relay FM so Jason you wrote a post on six colors about malware and the Mac.

00:37:31   Can you explain to me why we're talking about this?

00:37:36   So there's this company called Malwarebytes that is a maker of anti-malware software cross-platform

00:37:44   and they do a report every year that's sort of like the state of malware as they see it

00:37:50   because they've obviously got to do malware software you have to have basically researchers

00:37:56   who are seeing what stuff is spreading and how it works and updating your system to fight

00:38:04   it but it's also a marketing exercise that's the truth of it is they are trying to promote

00:38:11   themselves as experts and they sell product that stops malware and those go together so

00:38:18   they release their report for the state of malware in 2019 and one of the things because

00:38:23   the way that they define their terms one of the things that got picked up by a lot of

00:38:28   tech news outlets and spread around was that they made this kind of extraordinary claim

00:38:34   that essentially there was more malware on the Mac than on Windows and that there was

00:38:39   a huge growth in Mac malware which is funny because as a Mac user you're probably sitting

00:38:45   there thinking wait a second I thought there wasn't any malware on the Mac and the truth

00:38:49   is they are using some pretty shaky definitions they have defined malware to include apps

00:39:00   that don't do anything or are misleading in what they do and sort of adware stuff that

00:39:06   hijacks your browser to put up like pop-ups and things so you know the Mac keeper kind

00:39:14   of stuff where somebody gets a you know you speed up your Mac if you download this and

00:39:18   then it kind of infests your Mac and it's hard to remove it all and it keeps coming

00:39:21   back and stuff like that it's not quite the same as leaking your you know scanning your

00:39:26   hard drive and leaking your personal information or destroying your computer or encrypting

00:39:31   your hard drive and demanding ransom those are like traditional malware versus this other

00:39:37   category of malware.

00:39:39   Will Barron Make your machine and turning it into something

00:39:42   for something else right?

00:39:43   Yeah a botnet that you're now a Bitcoin farmer and you don't even know about it.

00:39:48   Exactly, exactly. So I think that the coverage was the coverage that some outlets had was

00:39:56   kind of misguided because it was oh my god Mac malware which is exactly I think what

00:40:01   Malwarebytes wants because they want people to buy their software so just you know I think

00:40:08   there is so I'm balancing that saying that I think that they went too far and that they

00:40:14   made this a little too alarmist with the real bit of I think interesting information in

00:40:20   this report which is it's definitely the case that these sort of sleazy groups that have

00:40:28   these apps that they want to convince you to download with a link on a website somewhere

00:40:33   and you download it thinking you have a problem and then they install and again they're

00:40:38   not they're not really malware but they are going to redirect your you know your web pages

00:40:44   and your ad requests on web pages and they're going to do all this other kind of gross stuff

00:40:49   and they're going to make it hard for you to remove it that that is on the rise that

00:40:54   stuff is on the rise there are more of those there were new ones and there's a lot more

00:40:58   of it than there used to be and that seems to be accurate that in 2019 there were many

00:41:04   more attempts to get this stuff out there on the Mac so I think that's interesting the

00:41:12   other point that didn't come across in a lot of stories about this report that I think

00:41:16   is interesting is that in November Apple kind of quietly clarified their rules for being

00:41:25   on the platform and this is not there's a tech note I linked to it in my story we can

00:41:30   link to it in the show notes there's a tech note that basically says here's what we don't

00:41:35   allow on the platform and this is not allowing the Mac App Store like this stuff is not allowed

00:41:40   in the Mac App Store so you basically unless there's a horrible mistake that they have

00:41:44   to correct which I guess happens occasionally but basically this is not stuff you get in

00:41:48   the Mac App Store this is stuff that you download from somewhere on the internet but Apple Apple's

00:41:55   control of the Mac as a platform is not limited to the Mac App Store right like they have

00:42:01   these other mechanisms and by redefining their rules or clarifying their rules they are also

00:42:08   you know they're pointing out that they have a couple of big hammers that they can use

00:42:12   to smash things on the Mac if they want like every new version of Mac software after I

00:42:18   think June of last year has to be notarized which means you have to upload it every piece

00:42:25   of software you have to upload it to an Apple server and then they scan it and then they

00:42:30   wrap it in a cryptographic signature and send it back to you so every Mac App that is by

00:42:36   default kind of runnable you can get around it if you really want to but by default that

00:42:41   is runnable has to have this signature it means it won't be tampered with it also means

00:42:47   that it has passed some tests and it also means that Apple has that ID and if they find

00:42:51   that you are in violation that your app does something sleazy they can kill it they just

00:42:58   kill it and it stops working.

00:43:00   So is this they can only do this for apps that have been notarized?

00:43:05   No they can I mean they can so there are different kinds they have a they have a an anti-virus

00:43:12   and malware protection scheme where they can basically target anything but they also have

00:43:17   this other option which is targeting the signature of an app prevents it from being launchable.

00:43:22   Right so if I remember rightly this is what they did to that BitTorrent app transmission

00:43:28   that got that got kind of man in the middle attack right?

00:43:32   Yeah so so there are my and my point here is that even if you're not in the Mac App

00:43:37   App Store Apple has ways of killing your software if they really want to and by clarifying their

00:43:44   rules what they did is their rules always said kind of like yes we mean malware we mean

00:43:50   things that affect your computer or send your personal information in ways you aren't aware

00:43:55   of like those those are there but also it's things like making it hard to remove it changing

00:44:01   its name so that you can't find it trying to get you to pay to remove it redirecting

00:44:07   requests doing like there's a whole list of things that that fall into this category and

00:44:12   my understanding is that when Malwarebytes came up with this list of all of these adware

00:44:16   things making it seem like the Mac is infested with all of this adware stuff that you can

00:44:23   probably make a pretty good link there that the rise of the adware is why Apple probably

00:44:27   clarified its rules and I think most of that stuff has been smashed has been you know whacked

00:44:33   by Apple like they got the hammer so so it was worth having that conversation that it

00:44:40   looks like there is something that went on where the Mac is a higher profile target for

00:44:46   some of this garbage software than it used to be but that Apple then has seemingly responded

00:44:52   to that rise with a clarification of its own policies and it's got a bunch of levers it

00:44:57   can pull to have that stuff just die if they feel like it crosses the line now there are

00:45:04   some exceptions to this like we've we talked about there are apps that we look at and say

00:45:08   I don't know why that app exists where it's like oh it'll clean up your logs and remove

00:45:13   files and make your Mac work faster and you look at it and you say I don't think that's

00:45:17   necessary or right.

00:45:19   Can I just take a quick, very just a quick thing because like people get these types

00:45:23   of applications confused right like Mackeeper is this I don't know just not great but there

00:45:28   are applications that help you like look at what's on your hard drive and delete stuff

00:45:32   and I think and I have used those right so applications like CleanMyMac and DaisyDisk.

00:45:38   This is my point is I can provide some skepticism about some of those apps you know and whether

00:45:45   that category needs to exist.

00:45:47   What I like them for and what I've used those apps for is like I just don't know where the

00:45:53   if I need if I if I'm running low on storage space sometimes I just need to see where the

00:46:00   large files and those applications have always helped me find things that I wouldn't have

00:46:03   known and some Mac users will know for example where to go to remove the old backup files

00:46:09   of old iPhones but I don't and it helps me for that.

00:46:13   So this is my point which is Apple is not they're making this a light touch right like

00:46:22   you really need to be doing something misleading to get in trouble.

00:46:29   It's not saying we've decided that this kind of app you shouldn't use it and so we're going

00:46:35   to kill it.

00:46:36   That's not what they're doing so and I liken it in my story to how the Food and Drug Administration

00:46:42   in the US doesn't evaluate herbal supplements for whether they work or not right they're

00:46:49   like look some people like them some people don't think they're worth it.

00:46:53   We're not making a judgment.

00:46:54   It's a little like that which is right.

00:46:56   We want Apple to take a light touch.

00:46:57   If it's not harmful then don't do anything about it if people are happy with it.

00:47:03   Yeah so and we don't want an Apple that's an activist Apple that's coming in and shutting

00:47:08   down apps that people feel are legitimate just because Apple doesn't like them or the

00:47:11   Apple has an alternative that they built that they want you to use right that's no good

00:47:15   but that's not what they're doing here so anyway it's a it's kind of a fascinating issue.

00:47:21   The thing that kind of got me mad was reading a recode story that quoted the guy who is

00:47:26   basically the Mac guy at Malwarebytes and he made the statement that's like you know

00:47:35   Mac users say that Macs don't need anti-malware software and it's just an illusion because

00:47:41   you can see all the bad stuff that's out there and you know that's why my story ends with

00:47:45   me saying no you don't need anti-malware software.

00:47:48   This is because I think it is a quote that shows that he's trying to scare people because

00:47:54   it benefits his company but I think there is also some truth in it that is worth discussing

00:47:59   which is I think it's possible that some Mac users make bad decisions because they think

00:48:06   they're invulnerable and they're not.

00:48:10   There are bad things that can happen to you on the Mac if you download random software

00:48:15   from random places that you don't know who did it and it asks you for permission to install

00:48:20   a bunch of things and then your Mac starts acting really weird like that can happen and

00:48:28   Apple may not save you from that or they may not save you for a while from that.

00:48:32   So I do think that the perception that Macs can't get malware is potentially culturally

00:48:38   bad in that it makes Mac users not behave kind of carefully on the internet when they're

00:48:44   running software but that said I don't run malware software.

00:48:47   I never have and as John Saracusa mentioned on ATP last week in many ways it is just as

00:48:55   bad as some bad software in terms of kind of wrecking your Mac experience and slowing

00:49:00   everything down.

00:49:01   So yeah.

00:49:02   I think that it's like it is an often said thing right?

00:49:07   Macs don't get viruses.

00:49:10   Completely accurate but there is a big difference between like people's mindset of like the way

00:49:16   that Windows devices would get viruses and that's gotten way better on Windows now but

00:49:20   like you know back in the day just going to some websites was a problem right?

00:49:26   And that was like a thing and that didn't happen to the Mac like that's true but like

00:49:32   it is possible to see that if you are a irresponsible or oblivious Mac user just clicking on anything

00:49:41   and doing whatever you want yeah you can get malware and there is as you mentioned earlier

00:49:48   like companies, not companies, bad actors who make this stuff are now targeting the

00:49:54   Mac more than they have before.

00:49:56   There's a reason why I mean most of the bad malware that we've seen on the Mac is actually

00:50:01   stuff that's come from pirated software where it's in a shady place of the internet and

00:50:07   then they take real software and they kind of put it up as a pirate download but they've

00:50:12   actually altered it to be a malware installer and like there are yes you can do specifically

00:50:20   dumb things to endanger your Mac and so I think it's always good to be wary and I think

00:50:25   what Apple always says is download from the Mac App Store or other trusted sources like

00:50:30   yes if you download that from Microsoft or Adobe or you know bare bones or whoever like

00:50:36   okay you can do that and this is why Apple has you know changed the defaults about what

00:50:43   apps can run and built Gatekeeper which originally looked at your app the first time it launched

00:50:50   and now looks at your app not just the first time it launches but thereafter to make sure

00:50:55   that it passes some tests and it's why they've got their anti-malware software that isn't

00:50:59   totally invisible but runs in the background and auto updates and will kill anything that

00:51:05   Apple has flagged as being bad so Apple has continued to step up their game this is why

00:51:10   they ask for permission so that as annoying as it is in Catalina the motivation there is

00:51:15   that if some app that you downloaded that's supposed to be a calendar asks to read your

00:51:19   entire hard drive that you were able to look at that and go well wait a second why would

00:51:24   I let it do that why is it doing that like that is an alert to say this app may be doing

00:51:30   things you are not aware of or why is it reading what does it want to read my address book

00:51:34   if it's not address book related it's not contacts list related that's why they put

00:51:39   all of those in it does give me pause there's a line in the malware byte story or report

00:51:44   about how a lot of the vectors that are on the Mac now are based on shell scripts you

00:51:49   know command line terminal stuff and I use that stuff all the time but it makes me think

00:51:54   that if that's the latest vector for this stuff probably in future versions of Mac OS

00:52:00   we're going to see Apple lock that stuff down even more and another thing that Dan Morin

00:52:07   brought up last week when I was talking to him on the podcast I do with him for six colors

00:52:11   members is I think one of the great danger points on the Mac to this day is installers

00:52:21   that ask you for your password when they install stuff because they have to install special

00:52:26   components and you know most apps don't do that but every now and then there's an app

00:52:30   that's like I need you to put in your password so I can put some stuff in some various places

00:52:34   and that's an invisible process right and I feel like if I were doing a to-do list of

00:52:40   security at Apple I'd actually put that on my list as any app that wants to ask you for

00:52:46   your password in order to install stuff has to go through a system where they list everything

00:52:51   that they're putting everywhere and why and then let you you know let you undo it later

00:52:58   with a couple of clicks because that's that's where I get kind of creeped out of like well

00:53:04   I what are you putting where and why and it's kind of invisible so you know there's more

00:53:09   Apple's going to do and I think we need to have that conversation and had it when Catalina

00:53:13   came out that sometimes Apple is getting in the way of user desire in places that it shouldn't

00:53:20   and I think like demanding approval for access to the desktop and documents folders is a

00:53:24   great example of like that's I think it's really silly and annoying and that's not how

00:53:27   apps should work but at the same time they are trying to protect us from stuff like this

00:53:31   and try to anticipate the next vector of people doing bad stuff to your Mac

00:53:36   it's a super difficult line to have to walk right right because people like me and you

00:53:47   get frustrated by the security dialogues and some of the things that get locked down but

00:53:52   they're not necessarily doing it for me or you but then there is this question of like

00:53:55   how much is too much and how much ends up just making your experience so much worse

00:54:03   that you accept all the dialogues anyway right like it's a real it's a real line to walk

00:54:07   but it is helpful for a lot of people I guess I guess if it's stopping them from their machines

00:54:13   being taken over or slowed down or worse yeah I think the danger is if you you think you're

00:54:22   you act with confidence but you don't actually know like you think oh well I can just say

00:54:26   yes because everything's fine and that's what I was saying sort of about cultural issues

00:54:29   like if you believe you can just agree to anything because it's the Mac and your Mac

00:54:33   is impervious that's not great you know a lot of advanced users are going to install

00:54:38   all sorts of wacky stuff and do all sorts of things that are probably not safe but they

00:54:45   are better equipped to determine sort of like what a trusted resources but an average user

00:54:52   who is not really equipped to determine what a trusted resource is and in fact doesn't

00:54:57   even care because they just think that the Mac is impervious that's where you get into

00:55:00   a danger zone and I know that that's why Apple wants to kind of intercept that stuff which

00:55:05   is why Apple has said in public that they're not going to make it impossible for you to

00:55:08   run software you want to run on your Mac what they're going to do is they're going to get

00:55:12   in your way and say you sure you want to do this or go turn that setting off if you want

00:55:17   to do this because they want to stop the people who don't understand what it is they're about

00:55:23   to agree to and they've been talked into doing it by some web page somewhere and that's what

00:55:30   they're trying to intercept.

00:55:31   I want to talk about the iPad in 2020 because there are some reports that are interesting

00:55:37   somewhat conflicting and I just want to see what you think so Digitimes is reporting that

00:55:44   Apple will be releasing its first 5G products in the second half of 2020 this will be for

00:55:50   at least some models of the iPhone and also the iPad Pro with the A14 and A14X chips respectively

00:55:58   for those products but there are also many rumors suggesting Apple will upgrade the iPad

00:56:04   Pro line in March to include the triple lens camera system with a time of flight sensor

00:56:08   for AR so the question posed by these two things is could we see two iPad Pro refreshes

00:56:15   in 2020 or at some point in 2020 there will be like an additional model of the iPad Pro

00:56:23   which has 5G as well as its other features what do you think about this?

00:56:29   Well when I look at the first wave of 5G products from other phone makers it looks like what

00:56:38   everybody did is just take their product and then do a 5G variant so if Apple is going

00:56:45   to come out with new iPads in the spring and they want to do a 5G capable iPad my guess

00:56:51   is that it's just going to be we'll get the whatever it is fourth generation iPad Pro

00:56:55   in the spring and then there will be a fourth generation iPad Pro with 5G option in the

00:57:00   fall and that it might even be as simple as it's literally the same iPad but now there

00:57:05   is a 5G option you can buy for an extra however many dollars it is and that's my guess is

00:57:12   I don't think Apple wants to delay the iPad out of its 18 month cycle and put it in when

00:57:19   the phones are coming out just to delay for 5G and 5G you know again it's nice to have

00:57:26   it I wouldn't be surprised if Apple just didn't do it like just it's like no iPad doesn't

00:57:31   even need 5G but if they really feel like they want their entire product line to inherit

00:57:36   that has cellular to inherit 5G at some point I could just see them sliding that out at

00:57:41   some point in the fall and saying oh by the way the iPad Pro now does 5G too whether it's

00:57:45   a you know additional fee or whether they just sort of slipstream it and the old cellular

00:57:51   iPad Pro is replaced by a new one that is a 5G instead but because that's a real question

00:57:58   right is like the cost of a 5G modem the cost of that 5G being integrated do they charge

00:58:06   extra money for that or is it just sort of like well we've now changed the cellular version

00:58:11   to be 5G I don't know the answer to that but that's my guess is just it's gonna be that

00:58:15   simple of like oh yeah it does 5G now we drop that in it's not a new product it's the same

00:58:20   product but now there's a 5G variant and that's it.

00:58:23   Yeah I think that's kind of where I'm leaning to where like we do still get some new iPad

00:58:30   Pros in the spring because I think that there's a lot of smoke around that right we're just

00:58:33   talking about it last week right like these new hardware keyboard things right like it's

00:58:37   just stuff happening which doesn't make any other sense as to why it would maybe happen

00:58:41   now like except for new hardware plus there's just you know it's time for the iPad Pro to

00:58:46   be refreshed I think leaving it until September would would be two years which feels like too

00:58:51   long they might want to have more power in the iPad Pro before WWDC we'll see who knows

00:58:59   but then there could I think if they I do think if the iPhone goes 5G this year which

00:59:03   I think it will I think that they would also want to have the iPad Pro go 5G and if I was

00:59:09   going to put money on the table I would say that they would say oh you know the LTE iPad

00:59:14   you can't get that anymore it's now a 5G iPad and they just slot that in in its place for

00:59:18   both sizes that's what I think they'll do and then you know make a big thing about Apple

00:59:23   going like all in on 5G so there was also some reports that I saw that Apple might use

00:59:29   their own antennas for 5G they will not use the Qualcomm ones in the 2020 phones which

00:59:36   is surprising and kind of counter to what we thought but that kind of seems like that's

00:59:43   that they're where they're going with it or at least they will do you know how for years

00:59:48   Apple would used different companies for the antennas right like some phones would be Intel's

00:59:53   do you mean the modems? is that what the antennas yeah modem sorry the modem but you know how

00:59:59   like Myke versus the modems again there you go they're very it's a very specific antenna

01:00:04   band there was a report from fast company indicating that Apple would look to limit

01:00:09   its reliance on Qualcomm this is a quote from the verge with the iPhone maker said to be

01:00:13   exploring designing its own 5G they say antenna in that in the article.

01:00:18   Okay well I mean you could design an antenna and for your hardware and then have the modem

01:00:24   attached to it but it's I mean clearly they don't want to ultimately rely on Qualcomm

01:00:30   for anything but my impression is that they're going to for now I don't know I don't know

01:00:36   about that report to say.

01:00:37   Oh you know what sorry Jason I actually think it is an antenna thing right like there are

01:00:40   antennas as well as modems and that Apple is looking to develop its own antennas because

01:00:44   it's not happy with Qualcomm's.

01:00:46   I'm not okay I mean that that's a really weird specific inside baseball story but are we

01:00:50   surprised that Apple would choose to take control of some part of the hardware design

01:00:54   that they don't need to rely on Qualcomm for I'm not.

01:00:57   Not surprising.

01:00:58   No.

01:00:59   No I would expect it I mean I do think I mean I've made picks on this on connected I do

01:01:04   think this is the year that Apple goes in on 5G just because I agree I think it would

01:01:10   be it would be the thing if they didn't do it right that would be the thing of this iPhone

01:01:15   that everyone will write their articles about right like oh Apple being left behind right

01:01:20   like that's I'm not saying that's why they're doing it there's good reason to do it right

01:01:25   like 5G rollout is becoming a thing right like in in the in Europe in America like it's

01:01:30   becoming a thing and they would be being left behind because you know you mentioned about

01:01:35   like phone makers last year had like in a more expensive 5G variant of their phones

01:01:41   but this year you know like Samsung's devices and devices come out from other manufacturers

01:01:45   they just come with 5G antennas in them like yeah it's not an additional thing anymore.

01:01:49   Antennas and modems.

01:01:50   And modems my word I one day I'll get those right but yeah they're coming with 5G some

01:01:55   support.

01:01:56   There you go.

01:01:57   And my guess is I think I'm with you I think Apple's just going to release phones that

01:02:06   have 5G.

01:02:07   Oh I don't think there will be like the the only the Mac supports it or whatever like

01:02:12   that seems wild.

01:02:13   Yeah or a 5G variant right like they skipped that era that year they're like no we're not

01:02:18   going to do that and then this year when everything it's much more of a mainstream just like all

01:02:22   the phones have it which is why I actually kind of lead to lean to the idea that if they're

01:02:26   going to do a 5G iPad update it would probably just be replacing the cellular in the cellular

01:02:35   iPad with a different one on the iPad Pro but who knows who knows the the processor

01:02:41   stuff would be right like if they if they do an iPad in the fall they could have the

01:02:45   A14X instead of the like an A13X but if you look at the speed of the current iPad Pro

01:02:51   it's still kind of spectacular.

01:02:54   So does the iPad Pro really need to you know go to the 14 because the A13X we'll call it

01:03:02   that but it's really a you know an iPad Pro variant of that processor it's made it's a

01:03:07   new processor made for the iPad Pro for 2020 and they only need to do that once.

01:03:14   Right right they might not have to bump it to A14X like it's just not not necessary.

01:03:20   My guess would be that if they're not planning to release new iPads in the fall that that's

01:03:26   you know this is part of the roadmap is that this is going to be the most advanced chip

01:03:30   that they can make now and is it a A14 or an A13 well they'll probably call it an A13X

01:03:36   but does it have technology that is that is more advanced than the regular A13 probably

01:03:43   right probably and that so you know there's some reality there and there's some marketing

01:03:48   there.

01:03:49   All right let's finish up today's episode with some hashtag #askupgradequestions but

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01:04:50   Let me tell you that is a common thing that happens at this at this event that I'm going

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01:05:16   David: Jason I know what we're going to do for WWDC lunch next year.

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01:06:02   Thanks to DoorDash for their support of this show and Relay FM and Jason now is time for

01:06:08   some hashtag ask upgrade questions to round out episode 285 of this here program.

01:06:14   Let me start with Andrew and Andrew says could it be that the Apple TV is just hanging around

01:06:19   as the lowest price home kit hub?

01:06:23   I mean it does it right but anything can be a home kit hub.

01:06:26   An iPad can be a home kit hub.

01:06:29   Is it just iPads and Apple TVs?

01:06:33   So I feel like I don't I mean so here's the thing Andrew like technically yeah like it

01:06:39   does do that but I don't think that's why Apple are keeping it like that I think the

01:06:45   reason the iPad and the home and the home pod can be used as a home kit hub is because

01:06:51   they know they need to spread that out unlike the Apple TV isn't it because it used to be

01:06:55   the Apple TV was the only thing right as a hub for your home kits like something that

01:07:01   could control your home kit devices when you're outside of the home right but now there's

01:07:07   multiple products that can do that.

01:07:09   It's a fine reason to have one if you've already got one I don't think it's a reason to buy

01:07:15   one.

01:07:16   Right I mean and I've heard from some people are like oh well you you guys didn't mention

01:07:19   that Apple TV is important from a privacy standpoint because I don't trust Amazon or

01:07:24   Roku to watch what I'm doing and sell my information all that it's like fair enough.

01:07:29   My understanding though is that like your TV can just tell what's on the screen sometimes

01:07:33   so and you can turn that stuff off too but is it is it working and keep your TV off the

01:07:38   network and all that my point is we're we're really not saying why does Apple make the

01:07:42   Apple TV as much as we're saying why is the Apple TV the way that it is and what role

01:07:49   does it serve when the competition has you know I bought a 4K Amazon fire stick for 25

01:07:55   bucks and that Apple costs Apple TV cost seven times that and that seems a bit much so like

01:08:01   what what role does it serve and as a premium streamer that has better privacy and all that

01:08:07   that makes sense to me I still feel like the price is just way out of whack with the rest

01:08:11   of the world but we'll see what they do.

01:08:14   Isaac wants to know how many times a day do you accidentally take a screenshot on your iPhone? Isaac's about two a day. I would say at least once a week I go to my photo roll and find a screenshot of my morning alarm.

01:08:25   I do it on my iPad all the time actually. Oh really? Because I'm grabbing the edge of my iPad to pick it up and it takes a screenshot because it's it's the buttons are right on the corner there so if you if you had it have your fingers just right you'll take a screenshot of your iPad as you're picking it up.

01:08:41   It's great for me like because I have my iPhone in one of the studio neat material docs and it's like on my night table and so I'll just reach out to like press the side of my phone to stop the alarm and a lot of the times I'm doing that I'm like grabbing the whole side of the phone taking the taking the screenshot so that's why that happens to me. I've never really gotten used to that press all the buttons take the screenshot thing.

01:09:04   You know what I'd really like is that the floating window has a shortcut to delete the screenshot but it doesn't. Oh right just like so as soon as it's there. If I flick it across the screen or if I take it all the way up to the top or something like that I can be like no just go away and have like a little trash icon or something appear and I can drag it in there. I'd like that because sometimes I do take them.

01:09:25   You know like a little sf icon next to the yeah there's a share sheet that comes out if you tap and hold but even that doesn't really satisfy me so like I think I'd like that to be better.

01:09:38   Tim asks what do you think they'll call this year's iPhones my favorite question will they really make us say the iPhone 11s Pro Max or just go to 12 or something crazy like iPhone 5G.

01:09:47   I think they're going to 12 personally I think it's going to be 12. Okay just quick question lots of phone makers this year making big jumps like Samsung just went to 20 because like 2020 Apple wouldn't do that would they just go to 12.

01:10:04   I don't know like I feel like I've been saying for years that Apple doesn't want to end up in a situation where it's like ladies and gentlemen the iPhone 24 right like they could call it the iPhone 5G I mean they call it the iPhone 3G.

01:10:19   So here's the thing so so I keep thinking how do they get out away from the increments and I'm not sure that they have found a way to do that but this would be an opportunity for them to brand if they truly have their whole line as 5G to bring it that way it's just to call the iPhone 5G and ride on the fact that everybody is talking about 5G this year.

01:10:39   And then next year they could still make the iPhone you know 12 or 13 or make it something else but if I had to if I had to put money down on one thing it would be 12 not 11s because I agree that with this new wide array of different variant names like you know Pro Max 11s Pro Max is a mouthful it's not like there wasn't a 10s Pro Max so they might do it but.

01:11:06   But if I had to guess one but I do think that 5G is a possibility.

01:11:10   Don't forget there's still those rumors of like more and more phones this year so like naming could get bananas.

01:11:16   It could.

01:11:17   We could end up with iPhone 12 iPhone 12 Max iPhone 12 Pro iPhone 12 Pro Max with 5G I actually kind of like iPhone 5G and iPhone 5G Pro that's that feels good to me rather than the number and I agree with you like you have the ability to do it this year for a good reason.

01:11:36   So why not give it a go and then next then next year just do something completely different rather than saying oh it's the 12 or the 13 now.

01:11:43   Sounds great to me.

01:11:45   Jonathan asks when Apple switches the Mac to ARM what upgrades do you think you'll be able to make in the configurator do you like I Jonathan says I guess there just be one processor choice we still be able to choose RAM what do you think that do you think it's going to be so when if and when Apple switches to Mac the Mac to the ARM processors do you think it will be like.

01:12:05   An iPhone and iPad where you basically don't get any configuration options or do you think Apple will still allow you to make choices.

01:12:13   I wrote a Mac world column about this awhile ago because when I was looking at the MacBook Air.

01:12:22   And the fact that it basically has no options for processor.

01:12:27   I this moment where I thought oh it's going to be like this isn't it I do think that there will still be options on Macs.

01:12:38   Some but I think it's going to be less it would not surprise me if.

01:12:44   If we really are end up in a world where there's an arm let's say MacBook Air and an arm MacBook Pro 13 and an arm MacBook Pro 16 which there might not be it's possible arm will only come to consumer and not to.

01:12:58   Pro laptops it's also possible that it will come to all laptops but my point is in that scenario it would not surprise me if computer a came with processor type a and computer B came with processor type B.

01:13:13   And computer C came with processor type C and that's it.

01:13:18   And then maybe you can maybe you would adjust the storage and and maybe maybe the ram.

01:13:24   Maybe not but that I think Apple wants to make.

01:13:28   Ideally Apple would like to live in a world like the iPad and the iPhone where your choices are very limited like you don't buy an iPad and choose what processor goes in it.

01:13:37   You can choose your storage you don't even choose your ram all over the iPad you can choose the most expensive one that has a little more ram but Apple doesn't talk about it so.

01:13:49   That's I think that's that's what Apple wants to do whether they'll be able to get away with it in all the details of what it's like to move a platform to arm and have a PC platform on arm will see but I think if given their druthers that would be what they would choose.

01:14:05   Stephen asks if you could make one third party device or an iPad or iOS feature exist to make podcasting from those devices better what would it be.

01:14:17   Oh this is easy I want iOS iPad OS to support.

01:14:24   Apps being able to capture audio in the background I essentially I want audio hijack for iOS I want to be able on the on my Mac I can say record my microphone to a file record the sound coming out of Skype to a different file even like route the audio to different places for different tasks.

01:14:44   And that's all that I mean that to me that's the last piece that's missing is what I should be able to do is plug any USB microphone or audio interface into an iOS device or iPad OS device and press record and do what I do on my Mac and instead I have like a second recorder.

01:15:03   That's external that I'm using right now to do this so for me it's it's essentially that is I want the OS to provide that additional recording thing so that I can have you know audio hijack essentially on my iPad.

01:15:18   Alright if you I agree actually by the way like that's what I want just multiple streams of audio in software that they're being controlled sent and recorded just like you do on the Mac then we can do it that's the last thing that's it.

01:15:32   Alright if you'd like to send in a question for a future episode of the show just send out a tweet with the hashtag ask upgrade please send those in we'd love to get those questions and try and provide you with the answers or the opinions that you're looking for.

01:15:54   He is at JSNEL JSNEL and social media I am @imike please go check out the test drivers that's my new show with Austin Evans where we talk about all things technology and try and work out what the best products are for you.

01:16:08   We'll be back next week and Jason will be who knows where probably back in six colors land.

01:16:16   Until then thanks so much for listening say goodbye Jason Snell.

01:16:20   Goodbye from Los Angeles dude.

01:16:24   Hollywood Jason Snell.

01:16:26   You know.