275: Remove All of the Holes


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:08   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade Episode 275. Today's show is brought to you by ExpressVPN, Eero, and ID Tech.

00:00:17   My name is Myke Hurley, I'm joined by Jason Snell. Hello, Jason Snell.

00:00:21   Hello, Myke Hurley, how are you?

00:00:22   I'm very well, my friend. I have a #SnellTalk question for you.

00:00:25   Okay, let's do it.

00:00:27   This is from Arthoma, who wants to know, when Jason reads books on his Kindle, does he use page turning or infinite scrolling?

00:00:34   So, yeah, is this, is this Art-Homa, I think, maybe? I don't know.

00:00:38   I don't know. I went with Arthoma.

00:00:40   Arthoma, sure.

00:00:41   It could be Arthoma, Arthom A, I don't know, but that was just one of them.

00:00:45   Yeah, sure. All right, the answer is, this is a trick question, because while infinite scrolling is a feature that's available on the Kindle app for iOS,

00:00:53   where you just keep scrolling like it's a very long webpage, on hardware Kindles, you just turn the page.

00:00:59   I don't think there's anything, the screen doesn't refresh at any rate that would allow you to do that, but that's fine, because I don't like it.

00:01:07   The whole idea is that I keep turning the pages. I'm not interested in scrolling.

00:01:12   And so, when I am reading a Kindle book on my iPhone, which I do occasionally if I'm out somewhere and I've got time where I just have to wait, and I'll read my book,

00:01:23   I use page turning on that too, because I find the infinite scrolling, I end up scrolling up and down, and can I scroll it a little bit and all that, and I just don't like that.

00:01:30   I like the idea of I just turn the page to the next page.

00:01:34   But on the hardware Kindle, there's no infinite scrolling, you just turn the page.

00:01:38   Can I ask you a question with your Kindle?

00:01:40   Sure.

00:01:41   Do you do the thing where it refreshes the page every time, or once every few times?

00:01:45   Because the E Ink can refresh less now, right?

00:01:49   I think I have it set to refresh every few times.

00:01:52   Yeah.

00:01:52   Just because it makes it, the page turns generally faster, but every now and then it needs to blank the screen.

00:01:59   But I don't even notice.

00:02:00   Whatever my setting is, I don't even notice.

00:02:01   I've been reading on an E Ink reader so long now that every now and then somebody will say, "Oh, you know, it does that flash," or whatever.

00:02:09   And I guess, yeah, I don't know.

00:02:12   I don't notice it anymore.

00:02:14   I'm used to it now.

00:02:16   That's how books work.

00:02:19   Thank you so much to Art Homer for the #SnailTalk question.

00:02:24   If you would like to have a question answered to start an episode of Upgrade, just send out a tweet with the #SnailTalk.

00:02:31   And we'll move into some follow-up.

00:02:33   We've got lots of Apple Arcade recommendations.

00:02:35   I selected five that we received multiple nominations for the games that we should be trying out.

00:02:42   I've yet to play any of them, but they are now all downloaded.

00:02:47   Neocab, Sneaky Sasquatch, Tint, Inmost, and Mosaic.

00:02:52   They were the games that people recommended trying out, and I had only heard of two of them.

00:02:58   So it kind of bears the point that there are games in that library that you may have missed.

00:03:03   So there's a selection of them.

00:03:05   People recommended some other games, but they were like the big ones like Oceanhorn, which we didn't mention.

00:03:11   But you couldn't have been on Apple Arcade and not seen Oceanhorn 2 in there.

00:03:15   It was one of the most popular games, so one of the ones that Apple's really promoting.

00:03:20   So I wanted to recommend some from Upgradient that maybe had gone under the radar a little bit.

00:03:24   Yeah, and I have played Tint, and it does have colorblind controls.

00:03:29   We talked about it a while ago, and I think it's pretty good, although I found that it's...

00:03:35   I got confused about what its rules were when it started adding new rules.

00:03:40   I started to realize I don't really understand some of the principles behind the rule changes.

00:03:46   The other thing as I've been playing some of these games that have been recommended,

00:03:50   that I've realized about myself is I don't think I have fully analyzed

00:03:56   what it is that I'm looking for in a game.

00:04:00   Like, I know it when I see it, but I don't think...

00:04:04   And I think this is actually what would help me find more games, is if I had a better idea

00:04:08   of what iPad games, essentially, I want, I would be better at shopping for them.

00:04:16   Because right now, I think I just kind of like...

00:04:18   Maybe I think I know what I want, but I don't really, and I download things, and I try them.

00:04:22   And there's a certain level of commitment that I want to have, and there's a certain level of focus,

00:04:29   and maybe things that are more puzzling, things that are not kind of longer-term commitments.

00:04:34   I don't know.

00:04:35   I haven't figured it out quite yet, but it hit me while I was playing Sneaky Sasquatch,

00:04:40   which is adorable and kind of interesting.

00:04:45   And I played it for about five minutes or 10 minutes, and I thought,

00:04:48   "I don't think I want to play this anymore."

00:04:50   Not that it is a bad game, but I don't think it's what I'm looking for, where I have to

00:04:56   be super focused on moving this guy around and solving levels, and not for me.

00:05:04   And I don't know why, so I need to dwell on that a little bit more.

00:05:07   What makes a game work for me and what doesn't, because I think that's part of my problem.

00:05:13   Well, your favorite games are the Altos games and Mini Metro.

00:05:16   So I would suggest that there is something about being able to pick up and play whenever you want,

00:05:25   because you can dip in and out of those games really easily.

00:05:27   They are both games that feel inherently level-based and endurance-focused.

00:05:33   So I think that there is a link there.

00:05:35   Yeah, there are other games that I also like, though, but you're right.

00:05:39   There is some commonality going on here.

00:05:42   I honestly think that the biggest one is that I don't want to play a game that feels like

00:05:49   it needs to dominate my time, that I need to invest a lot of time,

00:05:55   and I need to sit down for a lengthy stretch in order to go through a level.

00:06:00   Hop in, hop out.

00:06:02   It's the best thing about smartphone games, really.

00:06:04   Because even when I'm sitting at home on my iPad and I want to play a game,

00:06:09   I don't want to play it for a long time.

00:06:11   I certainly don't want to feel like I have to commit to playing it for a long time,

00:06:17   because if I end up loving it and I play it for a long time, that's great.

00:06:21   But what I don't want to do is not tap the icon because I think,

00:06:24   "Do I really want to spend 15 minutes on this?"

00:06:26   Because guess what?

00:06:27   I don't.

00:06:28   I don't.

00:06:30   So keep sending in suggestions if you come across them on Apple Arcade.

00:06:33   We'd love to hear them.

00:06:34   Jason, you remember on last week's episode, I mentioned that we were talking about the HomePod

00:06:39   and I was saying I was having an issue with YouTube and the audio not playing from YouTube

00:06:44   through to the HomePod.

00:06:45   I had a few Upgradients reach out and say, "Is possible."

00:06:48   But what you have to do is you open the YouTube app,

00:06:51   then you long press the TV button to bring up the Control Center.

00:06:58   Go into the audio settings, turn the HomePod, uncheck the HomePod and check it again,

00:07:04   and then you will be able to use the HomePod with the YouTube app and the YouTube video audio

00:07:10   will play through the HomePod.

00:07:11   Totally works, but it's still super buggy.

00:07:14   But at least I know a way to make it work now.

00:07:16   You had some follow out, right?

00:07:18   I do.

00:07:19   I do to a podcast you may be familiar with.

00:07:21   Connected last week.

00:07:25   Great discussion specifically about the awards that Apple gave out

00:07:31   in their award thing that they did and the apps that they chose.

00:07:36   And it's a really good discussion because Federico especially knows so much about the app world.

00:07:42   It's one of his things that he and his site focus on.

00:07:46   It's like all the different apps.

00:07:47   They cover all of these apps.

00:07:49   And then you see the awards and he was frankly baffled by a lot of the choices,

00:07:57   by a lot of the decisions about like highlighting, you know, this is a great iPad game that's just

00:08:02   a port from another platform instead of a game that's more native to the iPad.

00:08:07   And the decisions about like, why would you do one game in this category,

00:08:13   but why not these other games?

00:08:14   Or why would you take this incredibly popular watch app, but not have a watch category

00:08:21   or an Apple TV app category?

00:08:23   Like he knows too much about it.

00:08:27   And so he looks at the, I mean, this is the truth of it.

00:08:32   This, I think he's right in his theory that this was, I mean, I think he said came through

00:08:38   at the last minute.

00:08:39   I'm not sure if that's true, but the idea that it didn't get the amount of consideration

00:08:44   and time that it deserved, I think he's right in some way or another because he's looking

00:08:51   at it and saying-

00:08:52   - We're talking about Apple's best of the year apps and games, by the way.

00:08:56   - Yeah.

00:08:57   So he's not, he doesn't think they make sense because he knows so much about the category

00:09:04   that he looks at it and goes, why would you choose that?

00:09:07   That's not a good example of it.

00:09:09   Why did you not choose in this category?

00:09:11   And of course this isn't the Oscars.

00:09:12   They can make up awards like we did at the Eddy Awards for years.

00:09:16   She's like, just make up.

00:09:17   You just say who you wanna honor and then you honor them.

00:09:20   It's Apple's award thing.

00:09:21   They could make up categories as they want, but they, so Federico says, why did you not

00:09:26   honor this and why did you want this weird choice?

00:09:28   But the one thing that I think went a little unsaid in the conversation that I wanted to

00:09:33   add is the difference between editorial and marketing awards.

00:09:40   Because Federico especially, but all three of you guys, you're editorially driven.

00:09:47   You are looking through the lens of somebody who is an independent observer and saying

00:09:54   in this example, what are the best apps?

00:09:56   What's the most worthy app or game this year?

00:09:59   What is the best representation of the platform and is a real iPad app or whatever your judgment

00:10:06   is and there are different ways to define it that you can choose, but you're really choosing.

00:10:10   When Federico expresses frustration, I think a lot of it is he's looking at this and being

00:10:15   like, well, but this doesn't make any sense because he's thinking what's worthy of an

00:10:20   award, what's the best?

00:10:21   And the truth is that although Apple styles these things as awards, the fact is it's a

00:10:26   marketing exercise.

00:10:28   This is promotion for Apple's platforms.

00:10:30   It is a developer relations promotion to get developers excited because some developers

00:10:35   got honored, but it is also to show off how amazing their platform is and say, look how

00:10:39   great we are, look at these great apps.

00:10:42   Isn't the Apple's ecosystem great?

00:10:44   And although Apple employs in the App Store group editorial people, quote-unquote editorial

00:10:49   people, the fact is that those people, and I know some of those people, it's marketing.

00:10:55   It's a marketing job.

00:10:56   They are marketing apps.

00:10:57   Now, they can do it in a good way.

00:11:00   There's a lot of marketing content that can be useful whether it's how-tos or highlighting

00:11:05   apps that you might not have heard of that are worth looking at, but it's marketing,

00:11:12   and marketing decisions have to do with the face that Apple wants to put forward.

00:11:16   So they're making decisions based on how they want to market themselves, not based on what

00:11:22   the best app is.

00:11:23   And I feel like there are stark differences there, and that was the source.

00:11:28   It made me chuckle.

00:11:29   That was the source of Federico's frustration, but I think it comes from a legitimate place,

00:11:33   which is, let's not forget, Apple is not picking awards because this thing is the best.

00:11:40   They're picking awards based on a more complicated formula that involves things being good, involves

00:11:45   developers that they have relationships with.

00:11:49   I don't know for a fact whether Apple promises awards to developers as part of their deal.

00:11:55   I would guess not, but it could, because this is not some sort of sacrosanct process.

00:12:00   And at the end of it, they're going to pick ones that make Apple look good.

00:12:04   This is not like Apple has gone and found an independent panel to choose awards.

00:12:08   That's not what's going on.

00:12:09   It's a marketing exercise.

00:12:10   So...

00:12:11   I think one of the things that really perplexed Federico was that the Moleskine app Flow,

00:12:15   I think it's called, won an ADA and an app of the year award, which seems a little bit

00:12:21   redundant considering how many apps are available.

00:12:23   Yeah, and I mean, I've seen this from another perspective too, which is like I've gotten

00:12:29   a lot of app marketing over the years and I've always found it to be one of the most

00:12:33   perplexing parts of Apple's PR strategy.

00:12:37   And maybe I'm not sure if they're sending me things anymore.

00:12:40   Maybe they don't like, they know that I don't write about them anymore, but Apple has always

00:12:44   been for a long time anyway, been good at the kind of like, oh, here's a collection

00:12:49   of apps for this holiday.

00:12:50   Maybe you could write about them.

00:12:52   And it's literally, there's no news there.

00:12:54   It's literally, hey, the 4th of July is coming up.

00:12:57   Here are some apps related to the 4th of July.

00:13:00   And this is like that.

00:13:02   This is like that.

00:13:04   It's all about creating a conversation about stuff that's in Apple's ecosystem.

00:13:09   It reflects well on Apple.

00:13:10   It does benefit those developers.

00:13:12   I'm unclear on exactly what the relationship is.

00:13:16   Like the Moleskine stuff, like they also pushed Moleskine stuff at the keynote.

00:13:20   And I saw the Moleskine stuff later and it doesn't mean that it's not good.

00:13:25   It's just that it's also part of a marketing push.

00:13:27   Apple has decided that it's useful for it to be marketed.

00:13:31   So it's just, it was a really good conversation because I thought it perfectly elaborated

00:13:38   like the tension between Apple's goals with this thing as a marketing vehicle that is

00:13:47   dressed in award clothing like a panel or some other kind of independent body made choices.

00:13:56   And that's because it's not, it's marketing.

00:13:58   And Federico looks at it and says, well, these are awards.

00:14:00   They don't make any sense.

00:14:02   And Apple looks at it as not that, I think.

00:14:05   So it was a good conversation and I liked it.

00:14:08   And I really liked, I get excited when I hear somebody who's very knowledgeable kind of

00:14:13   show off about something that doesn't make sense because they know all the details.

00:14:19   And then they look at this thing and they go that I don't, what is happening here?

00:14:22   And that was Federico to a T and that conversation, it was great.

00:14:26   I think it's this week, Max Stories are publishing their selects, which is their awards of the

00:14:31   year.

00:14:32   I think that's coming up this week.

00:14:34   So thinking all of this stuff had been particularly in Federico's mind about thinking about what

00:14:38   the best apps of the year are.

00:14:40   And I'm expecting that none of the apps that Apple wanted be on his list.

00:14:46   This is, I don't know what his list is, but that's my assumption is just like, this doesn't

00:14:50   make any sense to me.

00:14:53   I think it actually might not be this week.

00:14:54   It's sometime over the next couple of weeks that they're doing their Max Story selects.

00:14:59   So I just thought it was funny to hear him talk about that.

00:15:02   And as I said to him on the show, I look forward to critiquing his award selections.

00:15:09   We'll see, we'll see.

00:15:10   Talking about awards, the best awards of the year are upcoming, the upgradees.

00:15:14   You can go to upgradees.vote to cast your nominations for the upgradees who you would

00:15:19   like to win in each category.

00:15:20   I have a piece of information.

00:15:22   I've decided on a closing date, Jason, for nominations this year.

00:15:25   It's going to be December 24th.

00:15:27   That is when the nominations will close for the upgradees this year for the 2019 upgradees.

00:15:32   So go to upgradees.vote and you can make your nominations.

00:15:36   You don't have to make a nomination for every category, none of the questions are required.

00:15:41   So you can just make votes for whatever categories you have answers for.

00:15:46   One of the reasons we ask for your nominations is because me and Jason don't necessarily

00:15:49   have nominations for every category.

00:15:51   So it always helps.

00:15:52   If you want to get some inspiration, if you want to see who's won in the past, you can

00:15:56   go to upgradees.com where we have by year and by category, a list of every winner of

00:16:02   an upgrade award and the runners up in each category for each year as well.

00:16:06   So you can go there and see all of that.

00:16:08   Should we do some upstream news?

00:16:10   Yeah, we should.

00:16:11   It's been quiet in the upstream world lately, but we've got a little bit.

00:16:17   Yeah, I want to wrap up a few things because there just hasn't been a lot of like huge

00:16:22   stuff that I wanted to talk about, either of us wanted to talk about, but there is some

00:16:26   small headlines around Apple TV Plus in general.

00:16:28   Two new shows have launched in the last couple of weeks.

00:16:31   There is Servant, which is the M Night Shyamalan thriller show.

00:16:36   Like it's a thriller horror, I think about a couple who have lost a child and they have

00:16:43   a kind of like a service, like doll.

00:16:47   And I assume creepy things happen.

00:16:49   And then Truth Be Told, which is the podcast, which premise I thought was hilarious, but

00:16:54   then when I watched the trailer, it looked really interesting, which is a, it is a show

00:17:00   about a true crime podcast.

00:17:03   My friend, Aaron Bernhard, who is a TV critic.

00:17:07   He he's been really negative about the Apple TV Plus shows and he thinks that Truth Be

00:17:13   Told is the best one they've done.

00:17:16   I think he phrased it as the first good Apple TV Plus show, which is really mean and I don't

00:17:21   agree with, but I am intrigued.

00:17:23   I am intrigued by that and I'm interested in watching it because yeah, it's a, it's

00:17:28   an anthology show, so every season would be about a different story, but it is, it is

00:17:32   essentially crime story told through lens of true crime podcast.

00:17:36   And apparently it's very good.

00:17:38   So I'm going to look at that maybe over the holiday break.

00:17:41   It features Octavia Spencer, Aaron Paul is in it as well.

00:17:46   Lizzie Kaplan, Octavia Spencer, who plays the podcaster is maybe the only podcaster

00:17:52   ever that uses Beats headphones when they record.

00:17:55   I guess unless you sit down with Apple in the interview spaces, then I'm sure you use

00:17:59   Beats headphones as well.

00:18:01   Apple have also bought the rights to a Billie Eilish documentary.

00:18:05   So Billie Eilish, the musical artist who picked up basically all of Apple's Apple Music Awards.

00:18:11   They have now, they have now picked up a documentary that's been made about her, which will be

00:18:17   showing on TV Plus at some point.

00:18:21   There is a new Oprah Winfrey project announced.

00:18:23   So if you remember, Oprah Winfrey's project spanned far and wide with Apple TV Plus in

00:18:28   the overall deal.

00:18:29   And one of the projects is a documentary about sexual assault in the music industry.

00:18:33   So that's currently begun work.

00:18:36   And Reese Witherspoon and Jennifer Aniston and the morning show itself received Apple's

00:18:40   first Golden Globes nominations.

00:18:43   So luckily for them, they got some.

00:18:44   I mean, they needed really to have at least something and they did.

00:18:48   Yeah.

00:18:49   Well, and you, you couple this with the fact that they are one of their Oscar bait things

00:18:52   was this, this movie that they delayed, which I'm not sure if we talked about that or not.

00:18:57   You didn't talk about this, The Banker, right?

00:18:59   The Banker and it got delayed very weirdly handled because what happened was the week

00:19:04   before the movie was to come out in theaters so that they could screen it in theaters so

00:19:09   that they could potentially get Oscar nominations.

00:19:12   Very, very strange story because it's like the daughter of, it's the granddaughter of

00:19:19   the main character in the book, I think, and in the movie.

00:19:22   And she was, she said that one of the sons who is a character in the movie, but like,

00:19:27   it's not, my understanding is it's not about that.

00:19:30   There was a story in, I think the Washington Post that was like, here's why Apple pulled

00:19:34   the release of this movie.

00:19:35   And the story did not answer the question because it sounds to me like this woman complained

00:19:43   saying that one of the sons of the character in the movie sexually assaulted her, I think,

00:19:51   some form of sexual misconduct and that she is offended that they're telling this story

00:19:57   about her family and that I think there's a complaint about her not being involved and

00:20:03   that they should be able to control their story.

00:20:06   And what's weird about it is I'm unclear if there are any complaints about the content.

00:20:12   No, no.

00:20:13   From my understanding from reading as you have is that the person who's come forward

00:20:18   who is a family member, right, like sexual assault was all in the family and they're

00:20:23   saying that they should not be telling these stories.

00:20:26   It's also based on the overall telling of the family's history.

00:20:31   Right.

00:20:32   And so this is the weird point is it sounds like this person is upset about the fact that

00:20:42   Apple made a deal with a portion of the family to tell this story and that they don't like

00:20:47   that person who made the deal, but it's not really about the story.

00:20:52   There are also some accusations of inaccuracy, but the sexual abuse stuff is the main thing.

00:20:56   This is from Cynthia Garrett, who is Garrett Jr.'s half-sibling.

00:21:01   So this is my feeling about it.

00:21:04   If the movie's inaccurate, then maybe worth taking a pause and dealing with it.

00:21:11   But the first stories about this made it sound like, "Oh, turns out that dumb old Apple,

00:21:18   they bought a movie," because they bought this at a film festival, "they bought a movie

00:21:21   where the main character is now accused of sexual assault.

00:21:25   And so this movie is a disaster and they've lionized this guy."

00:21:28   And he's like, "Well, no, actually that's not true.

00:21:31   It's his son and it's not what the movie's about and it's kind of over here on the side.

00:21:37   So it's a muddy kind of water for this whole thing.

00:21:41   And there are some...

00:21:43   I've seen different takes in various Hollywood industry websites saying things like...

00:21:51   There was a piece, I'm not sure if it was a Hollywood Reporter or Variety, but it was

00:21:53   a piece that said basically some people in Hollywood are like, "Yeah, you got to pull

00:21:59   it.

00:22:00   They should have done better due diligence."

00:22:01   And then there are other people who are like, "Look, stuff like this comes up all the time.

00:22:04   It doesn't directly impact the content of the movie.

00:22:06   You just got to soldier on, otherwise you'll never release anything."

00:22:09   And I think the bigger story here is not who's right there.

00:22:13   I think the bigger story is Apple has not had to deal with this stuff before and is

00:22:18   figuring it out.

00:22:19   - And this stuff is more difficult for Apple.

00:22:22   Because people are always wanting to write stories about this kind of...

00:22:27   Like about Apple doing wrong.

00:22:29   And so they're always going to struggle with this more than maybe some other companies

00:22:33   would.

00:22:34   And the way that they handle these things is going to be very important for them going

00:22:37   forward.

00:22:38   - Right.

00:22:39   So I'm not entirely convinced that they did the right thing here.

00:22:41   Although I think taking a pause and trying to figure out what's going on is probably

00:22:44   not a bad idea.

00:22:45   - I think halting and just waiting was the right thing to do.

00:22:49   That they now have to look into it and deal with it however they want to.

00:22:53   Forging ahead would have been a mistake.

00:22:55   - What they've lost is their Oscar timing, which is what they really wanted to do, is

00:22:58   they wanted to release this in December in theaters so that it would be Oscar-nominate-able

00:23:03   because we've talked about the Golden Globes and that's why I brought it up.

00:23:06   This was supposed to be their Oscar bait.

00:23:09   And they are going to have to wait.

00:23:13   They're going to miss because they're not going to be able to do that.

00:23:16   But it's an interesting story.

00:23:18   It's complicated.

00:23:20   And we didn't report on it here other than sort of like a brief glancing mention of it.

00:23:28   But what I would say is everything I've read about it suggests that this is a complex story

00:23:36   that I think most people have heard of in passing and don't understand.

00:23:40   Just that it's not a very simple, "Oh, look at Apple.

00:23:43   They really screwed this one up."

00:23:44   It's like, "Mm."

00:23:45   You know, first off, they didn't make the movie.

00:23:47   They bought it.

00:23:48   And second off, the accusations are very specific and not necessarily what you think they are.

00:23:55   And that, yeah, maybe Apple is right to have paused it or maybe they overreacted and there

00:24:01   are differing opinions about that.

00:24:03   But regardless, it's something that Apple has to deal with now because they're in this

00:24:06   business that they weren't in before.

00:24:08   David: Yeah.

00:24:09   It's like I don't even know if vetting of this story would have necessarily brought

00:24:16   this out.

00:24:17   It could have been...

00:24:18   You know, I don't know.

00:24:19   It seems like a very difficult thing to try and work out.

00:24:21   NatHAN: This particular controversy seemed to come out very specifically the week before the movie came out.

00:24:26   So were they now...

00:24:28   And I don't know if I've seen anything like were they desperately trying to reach the

00:24:32   producers and reach Apple and warn them and say, "You're making a mistake here," or did

00:24:36   they just lie back until they could sort of maximize the impact of their announcement?

00:24:41   I don't know.

00:24:42   I don't know.

00:24:43   But the bigger...

00:24:44   And again, we're not here to actually render those judgments now, but we are here to say,

00:24:47   "Here's an example of Apple having to navigate something they didn't use to have to navigate

00:24:51   because they're in this business now."

00:24:53   David Tompa Swiss television service Salt haven't launched

00:24:57   an alternative Apple TV remote.

00:24:59   Salt is one of the companies that switched...

00:25:01   It's a cable company, a cable TV provider.

00:25:03   I don't think they have fiber, but it doesn't matter.

00:25:05   That they have switched to issuing Apple TV 4K boxes instead of their own cable boxes.

00:25:09   There's a bunch of companies in Europe that are doing this.

00:25:12   But after an increasing amount of customer complaints about the remote, they have worked

00:25:17   with Apple to create a new remote that has actual buttons on it.

00:25:21   It doesn't require any pairing.

00:25:23   It just works straight out of the box, and it costs around $20, but you can only get

00:25:28   it if you're a customer of Salt in Switzerland.

00:25:32   Tim Cynova And no Siri button because they don't have

00:25:35   Siri.

00:25:36   David Tompa There's no Siri for Apple TV in Switzerland.

00:25:39   Tim Cynova In Switzerland.

00:25:41   Imagine being told by your partner that they're happy to standardize on Apple TV for their

00:25:49   cable box, but you've got to do something about your remote control.

00:25:54   Imagine that.

00:25:55   David Tompa Well, you know, this is the thing I found funny.

00:25:57   If that had come up before the deal, the deal probably never would have been done.

00:26:00   But now it's too late.

00:26:02   Salt got into bird of an apple and then it came back to bite them, so now they have to

00:26:04   make a new remote.

00:26:05   Tim Cynova Yeah, it's kind of fascinating.

00:26:08   I don't know.

00:26:09   I got an Apple or not an Apple TV 4K.

00:26:12   I got a Amazon Fire TV stick 4K version this weekend because it was $25, and I have a 4K

00:26:22   TV that doesn't have an Apple TV attached to it.

00:26:25   My old 4K TV, which is now a video game TV.

00:26:30   Non HDR.

00:26:31   It's got some weird things.

00:26:32   Anyway, it's good for video games.

00:26:33   It's fine.

00:26:36   And that's in my daughter's bedroom, and so when she's home for a break and all of that,

00:26:40   like when she was home at Thanksgiving, she was like, "Can I watch Disney Plus on here?

00:26:43   Can I watch Apple TV on here?"

00:26:45   And I said, "No, I don't have.

00:26:46   I only have like, you could launch the Xbox and download an app there."

00:26:50   And it's like, that wasn't going to happen.

00:26:52   And so $25 put this on there.

00:26:55   And what I was struck by is, yeah, it's got a regular remote with buttons and stuff.

00:27:01   And I've gotten used to the Apple TV remote, but I think the challenge is that it is so

00:27:05   different.

00:27:06   And even if it was good, like it's so different that there's a learning curve there that's

00:27:10   going to bug people.

00:27:11   But we have so many people have been clicking buttons on remotes for so long now that I

00:27:16   think we have to chalk the Apple TV remote up to being another one of these.

00:27:21   It doesn't come up as much as it should, but it's like in this mid 2010s era Apple design

00:27:26   where they decided that they were going to push design forward and drag customers with

00:27:31   them.

00:27:33   And the customers resisted.

00:27:34   So, yeah, I still get frustrated by it.

00:27:37   I know exactly how to use my Apple TV remote and I still get frustrated by it.

00:27:42   Missed accidental swipes, getting the orientation upside down.

00:27:48   And then also apps behaving differently.

00:27:50   Like if I do the hold down on the, you know, move the thumb to the side and then click

00:27:54   to go forward or on the left side to back up.

00:27:58   Some apps honor that in ways others don't.

00:28:01   And apps, when you touch the touch surface will bring up information, but some of them

00:28:07   auto dismiss it.

00:28:08   Some of them don't auto dismiss it and you have to press a button or tap the trackpad

00:28:13   space again to make them go away.

00:28:15   And until you learn what that app does, you're doing things wrong.

00:28:21   Like oh, can I press the menu button to get out of here?

00:28:24   Nope, that just closed the app.

00:28:25   Oh, okay, that's not what I needed to do.

00:28:26   Do I tap?

00:28:27   Do I tap again?

00:28:28   How do I get the Amazon X-ray stuff off the screen?

00:28:31   Like it's just, it's not great is what I'm saying.

00:28:35   Because breaking news, the Apple TV remote, not good.

00:28:40   The CBS Viacom merger is closed.

00:28:43   Yay.

00:28:44   Yay.

00:28:45   Not a lot to say here because this was long in the planning, but CBS and Viacom are now

00:28:50   back to being one company again, which they were, and then they were split apart, but

00:28:54   now they've been put back together.

00:28:55   And so that means your MTV Comedy Central Paramount Pictures kind of wing of Viacom

00:29:03   and CBS and Showtime and the publisher Simon & Schuster, they're all pushed back together

00:29:09   now in one place.

00:29:10   So they'll have the CBS All Access stuff will presumably pick up a bunch of Viacom content

00:29:15   and we'll see what their strategy is going forward.

00:29:17   They got a lot, 2020 is going to be a big year.

00:29:19   They've got a lot of shows.

00:29:21   They've got, I think they're going to have three, two or three Star Trek shows next year

00:29:26   on CBS All Access.

00:29:28   There's a lot going on there.

00:29:29   So we'll keep our eye on it, but it's one company again.

00:29:33   So they're a little bit bigger.

00:29:34   There's still a small fry in the, amid these gigantic conglomerates, but they are bigger

00:29:39   than they used to be.

00:29:40   Let's talk about podcasts.

00:29:42   So there have been more and more podcasts becoming Spotify exclusives or being created

00:29:48   by Spotify.

00:29:49   So this has been a thing that's been going on for a while, but there has been a recent

00:29:54   one which is near and dear to my heart, which is making me very sad.

00:29:58   There is a video game show, was previously, well, it was a Polygon show, which had Justin

00:30:06   McElroy, Griffin McElroy, Chris Plant and Russ Frushstick.

00:30:10   So they all worked at Polygon together before the McElroy brothers left Polygon.

00:30:15   But before that, this was like a show that they did every week.

00:30:18   It was called, it's called The Besties and it was just four best friends talking about

00:30:21   video games.

00:30:22   It's great.

00:30:23   Loved it.

00:30:24   And then they stopped doing the show, but would bring it back every year to do a Game

00:30:27   of the Year episode.

00:30:30   Then a couple of days ago, I was very excited to see the show pop up again as a notification

00:30:35   overcast.

00:30:36   Three episodes were published with new artwork.

00:30:38   I was like, yes, The Besties is back.

00:30:41   Turns out Besties is back, but from January 3rd, not only will it be a weekly show again,

00:30:45   very excited, but it's going to be a Spotify exclusive.

00:30:49   So I'm really upset about this because I'm now not going to listen to the show because

00:30:54   it's not, and this isn't out of a like, uh, how dare you, I would never type thing, but

00:31:01   I don't listen to my podcasts in Spotify, so I'm never going to remember to watch it

00:31:07   and to listen to it.

00:31:08   Yeah, this is, you and I talked about this, um, cause I brought this up in the context

00:31:12   of The Athletic, which is a subscription sports, uh, site and they do a bunch of podcasts and

00:31:19   they have, since we talked, by the way, they have brought some of them out of the, uh,

00:31:24   behind the paywall.

00:31:25   Although it's a weird thing where it's not all of them, including not the one I listened

00:31:28   to.

00:31:30   And it's, uh, some weird thing where they're doing like, I think every other episode is

00:31:34   running outside the paywall.

00:31:35   The point is I pay for it and I don't listen to them even though I want to because they're

00:31:40   not in my podcast app and I'm not going to keep switching apps to listen to different

00:31:44   things in different places.

00:31:45   My podcasts all live in overcast and that's just how it is.

00:31:49   And I know that this is Spotify trying to give leverage, you know, to like, no, no,

00:31:52   move all your podcasts inside, but I'm not going to do that.

00:31:56   Even if I pay for Spotify, I'm not going to move all my podcasts into Spotify.

00:32:00   So some people will, but, um, I saw somebody else was telling me how there's another, um,

00:32:07   another podcast that they liked that was picked up and put inside the paywall.

00:32:12   So this is, this is starting to happen where Spotify is making deals where they are pulling

00:32:16   podcasts.

00:32:17   In, in the case of the besties, it sounds like maybe the reason it's coming back and

00:32:22   going weekly is because they got paid by Spotify.

00:32:25   Right?

00:32:26   So it's a little bit different.

00:32:27   I actually can't tell, and I don't think it is related to Polygon anymore.

00:32:32   It's a video game website owned by Vox because it has none of their branding anywhere and

00:32:37   it was apparently by Spotify studios.

00:32:40   So I expect what's happened here is, well, considering only 50% of these people are employed

00:32:45   by Polygon anymore, that Spotify has offered them a bunch of money and they're doing the

00:32:50   show.

00:32:51   I mean, we've spoken about this in the past.

00:32:52   I don't know that's the case, but I can't find anything that would suggest that this

00:32:56   was a Vox media product anymore.

00:32:59   Their branding is not on it in any way.

00:33:01   Right, right.

00:33:02   So a deal was made here.

00:33:03   So I think it's an important thing to mention that this isn't quite the same as a popular

00:33:08   podcast being taken behind the paywall because it's sort of a dead podcast that is being

00:33:12   revived behind a paywall.

00:33:14   But it's like the middle ground, isn't it?

00:33:16   Yeah, but I have heard of popular podcasts being pulled behind the paywall and, you know,

00:33:22   we talked about it here a while ago.

00:33:23   It's just an interesting thing to ponder is like the business decision of doing that because

00:33:29   what you're going to do is you're going to lose a huge number of your audience, even

00:33:34   if Spotify is huge, which it is, like some percentage of your audience is not going to

00:33:38   follow you behind the paywall.

00:33:39   It's just not going to happen.

00:33:40   Well, this is it, right?

00:33:42   You've got to hope that the deal that you've done is worth more than any advertising that

00:33:47   you may not be able to get now because your audience could potentially be smaller because

00:33:51   you've got to convince people to switch their podcast app, which is difficult.

00:33:55   And if that's a trade that you're willing to make, then you can make it, but it's a

00:33:59   danger and you're also closing yourself off from discovery because, I mean, you can get

00:34:05   Spotify discovery, but the broader world of podcast discovery you're losing out.

00:34:10   So it's a, and if, what percentage of your money is from things like live shows because

00:34:16   live shows are going to not have as much of an audience either because you've lost part

00:34:20   of your audience.

00:34:21   So it's this whole complicated calculation.

00:34:23   I think it's a little bit easier to make it if you're the McElroy's and you look at besties

00:34:27   and you say to yourself, well, you know, we just can't do this.

00:34:31   It's not worth it.

00:34:32   The economics don't work.

00:34:33   And then Spotify says, we'll write you a check and you say, oh, now the economics work, right?

00:34:37   That's easier.

00:34:38   It's more complicated in other situations, but it's also, yeah, it's just, it's unfortunate

00:34:43   you and I agree on this point and it's unfortunate not because we think Spotify is evil.

00:34:48   All that the podcasters are doing bad, get your pay back, right?

00:34:51   Like if it's coming to you, take it.

00:34:53   For sure.

00:34:54   It's unfortunate because it's siloing and from a user experience standpoint, siloing

00:34:58   stinks and you're, you're going, this is the equivalent of saying, Hey everybody, I know

00:35:03   you liked my website, but, um, my website's no longer going to be available.

00:35:08   You need to download an app to read what I write.

00:35:11   That's what this essentially is.

00:35:12   It's I'm taking you out of the open world and putting you in my silo.

00:35:17   And it's the only way, cause like as a, as a newspaper subscriber or the athletic, I

00:35:22   can read that on the web.

00:35:23   I can read that in their app.

00:35:24   But for podcasting, you're saying I'm going to take you out of podcasts and put you in

00:35:27   my little app.

00:35:29   And that's the only way you're going to be able to get it.

00:35:31   It kind of stinks.

00:35:32   It would stink less if Spotify said, Oh, if you use overcast, you just put in your Spotify

00:35:38   username and password and subscribe to it and overcast, but they're not going to do

00:35:41   that because they want you to, they want to force you to use their app.

00:35:45   Spotify and not looking to make money out of podcast advertising.

00:35:48   They are looking to be able to produce content so you will pay for a Spotify subscription.

00:35:53   That's the difference.

00:35:54   Yep.

00:35:55   So, you know, maybe every now and then if there's a game I particularly am interested

00:35:59   in hearing their thoughts on, I will think to myself, Oh, I should go and check out,

00:36:02   see if they spoke about it on besties.

00:36:03   But you know, I just, I don't think it's just a shame, you know, but it is what it is.

00:36:10   All right.

00:36:11   Let's take a break and thank our first sponsor.

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00:38:07   So there was a rumor from Ming-Chi Kuo reporting that Apple will launch an iPhone without a

00:38:12   lightning connector in 2021, saying it will be a quote, "completely wireless experience,"

00:38:18   suggesting that they will skip USB-C on the iPhone completely.

00:38:24   Now this feels like something which has been inevitable.

00:38:27   I think we've always assumed that like it just seems like the most Apple slash Johnny

00:38:31   eye thing ever to just take a phone and remove all of the holes on it.

00:38:37   Right?

00:38:38   That just feels like something we've been expecting for a while that eventually they

00:38:41   would just remove everything.

00:38:42   I think the headphone jack was probably when it really seemed like and then the inclusion

00:38:46   of Qi charging.

00:38:48   But this seems aggressive.

00:38:50   2021?

00:38:51   That feels aggressive to me.

00:38:53   Maybe I'm just not ready because I haven't embraced the Qi lifestyle.

00:38:58   There are a lot of issues here.

00:38:59   I think that's one of the fascinating things about this story.

00:39:01   If it's true, we have to sort of take it on its face and evaluate it for what it is.

00:39:05   Ming-Chi Kuo's track record's pretty good.

00:39:07   Not perfect, but good.

00:39:10   So my first question is, why?

00:39:16   Like I know it seems obvious, but like let's ask that question.

00:39:20   Why do you do this?

00:39:22   Do you do this because ports or as you said holes, eliminate all the holes.

00:39:27   Holes are inherently evil and must be removed as many places as possible.

00:39:31   Donuts are no longer being sold in the Apple cafeteria.

00:39:34   Holes must go.

00:39:35   Okay.

00:39:36   So that's weird and very design driven and not thinking of the consumer experience.

00:39:41   And Johnny Ive doesn't work at the company anymore, by the way.

00:39:45   So I don't think that people would rather have it would be in the end in everybody's

00:39:51   best interest if there were no ports on an iPhone.

00:39:54   That port's really tiny.

00:39:55   It doesn't really matter.

00:39:56   Like I don't think that's sufficient.

00:39:59   So the best I've been able to come up with, and I'd be interested if you've got any ideas

00:40:04   too, the best I've been able to come up with is Apple has been pushing for a while on dust

00:40:10   and water resistance.

00:40:12   And yet, as we know, even though they talk about that IP rating that the phone has, if

00:40:19   you submerge your phone in the water and it dies because of a failure to something in

00:40:26   the internals that allows water to leak in and you take it to the Apple store and say,

00:40:30   "Hey, your waterproof phone died."

00:40:32   They'll say, "Water resistant and water damage isn't covered."

00:40:37   It's not a guarantee.

00:40:40   Maybe the drive toward taking a port off is because as iPhone designers have been pushed

00:40:47   to get more resilient, more rugged, more water resistance in the phone, that what they said

00:40:55   is, "Look, if you want this to happen, that port has to go."

00:40:59   Because the port is the biggest ingress location on the device.

00:41:05   So that at least seems like a plausible reason why they do this rather than just sort of

00:41:12   like the politics of, "We believe there should not be ports."

00:41:16   I don't know if that's enough.

00:41:17   I don't know if that's sufficient for this.

00:41:19   But that's the best I think I've come up with so far is what if this is a truly waterproof

00:41:24   phone that they can stand behind and say, "You can drop this in the toilet or the ocean

00:41:30   or whatever and it's fine."

00:41:31   And we stand by that.

00:41:33   Is complete waterproofing that important that you remove the ability to charge the phone

00:41:39   with a cable?

00:41:40   I mean, a lot of people...

00:41:41   I think there's a question about like how many people have to replace their phones now

00:41:45   versus when they drop them in a puddle or a toilet or whatever versus five years ago.

00:41:51   And how dramatically less is that number than it used to be?

00:41:56   I don't know.

00:41:57   I'm just I'm trying to come up with a reason that is practical for why they would do this.

00:42:02   Do you think you have any other ideas?

00:42:03   No, I don't have a practical reason.

00:42:05   I think the reason that they would do it if they would do it would be, "Look how beautiful

00:42:10   it is."

00:42:11   That's the pure aesthetic argument.

00:42:12   That's the Johnny Ive argument.

00:42:13   Or there is a possibility that by removing other things that don't quote unquote "need

00:42:18   to be there," it gives them more space inside of the phone to do other stuff, right?

00:42:23   Which is the reason they got rid of their headphone jack, which is just so that they

00:42:26   could do whatever it...

00:42:27   Well, is the potential reason they got rid of their headphone jack is so they could use

00:42:31   that space in other places.

00:42:33   And that this would allow them again to do that.

00:42:37   Plus, because it isn't even a thing about proprietary anymore because Qi is not proprietary,

00:42:44   right?

00:42:45   And that's all that would be left would just be Qi charging.

00:42:47   Well, not necessarily.

00:42:48   Okay, so let's talk about charging.

00:42:49   I want to talk about data too, but let's talk about charging.

00:42:54   So charging, everybody's like, "Oh, well, if they do this, there's the Qi chargers."

00:42:58   Okay, a few things.

00:43:00   First off, battery cases and external batteries are...

00:43:07   And people using phones in places where a Qi charging service doesn't make sense.

00:43:14   How do you handle that?

00:43:15   Well, my thing, I always go to planes.

00:43:17   I always think about planes, right?

00:43:20   How do you charge your phone on a plane if there's no cable anymore?

00:43:23   And how do you charge a phone on a plane or anywhere else where you need to charge and

00:43:28   keep using your phone if you have to lay it down on a mat?

00:43:32   Or do you bring a little one of those little angled ones and set it up somewhere?

00:43:37   It doesn't track.

00:43:39   So unless there is a breakthrough in inductive charging, that means that you can now inductively

00:43:47   charge from external batteries and battery packs and when you're sitting on a plane without

00:43:54   any trouble, I think this is going to be an issue.

00:43:57   Now, that is one of my theories, if we're stepping through all the points here to evaluate

00:44:01   this thing.

00:44:02   One of my theories is, what if Apple is not just doing Qi charging on a phone like this?

00:44:09   What if there is another proprietary inductive charging technology, something that's more

00:44:14   like a MagSafe connector?

00:44:17   Or the Apple Watch charger?

00:44:19   Or the Apple Watch charger, where they can be a little bit less... it's more efficient

00:44:26   and therefore makes more sense, because you can plug an Apple Watch charger into a battery

00:44:29   pack and then just snap it on and it'll charge the Apple Watch.

00:44:33   I don't think it solves all of these issues, but something that's more MagSafe-like, where

00:44:37   it's essentially just like a little thing that attaches and it's like a cable, because

00:44:41   it is a cable, it's just an inductive charge kind of thing, or it's a direct connect, but

00:44:47   it's not a port.

00:44:49   You can toss that around a little bit and say, "Okay, well maybe."

00:44:53   But it is a roadblock for something like this, because if all it does is Qi charging, the

00:44:58   technology is just not very good.

00:45:00   Plus, the thing that happens to me all the time, I have Qi chargers at home, and every

00:45:04   now and then I look at my phone and I'm like, "Uh oh, my phone's down at 10% and I'm about

00:45:07   to leave the house."

00:45:09   And plugging it into a cable, it's going to charge way faster than the Qi charging, so

00:45:14   I will charge it that way in order to get it back up in terms of battery before I go.

00:45:20   I haven't even mentioned that when I get in the car, I could also charge it there, because

00:45:23   I have USB in the car, but what if I can't do that?

00:45:26   I also have CarPlay in the car, and my CarPlay is USB only.

00:45:31   So would they go to the point of invalidating all CarPlay models before like a year or two

00:45:38   ago with new iPhones by doing this?

00:45:41   Because that would be another thing, most CarPlay still requires a wire.

00:45:46   Like, what would you put in the box?

00:45:51   What goes in the box to charge your phone?

00:45:52   I mean, maybe one thing that could go, if there is a magnetic thing that is not a Qi

00:45:58   charger, or maybe it is, but let's say it's not, let's say it's a MagSafe connector of

00:46:02   some kind or something like that, that would be what would be in the box, right?

00:46:06   Is there be like a MagSafe to USB-C?

00:46:08   Something like that?

00:46:10   And you just bring the dongle with you everywhere?

00:46:14   Again, not that it couldn't be done, but you start to think about what would be required

00:46:19   to get to that point, and it just starts to get ugly, like really fast.

00:46:25   I feel like this is going to be, because I remember these questions for the removal of

00:46:30   the headphone jack, right?

00:46:32   And there was never a good reason.

00:46:34   It's just something that they did.

00:46:37   Apple had their reasons, but they didn't communicate those with people, like why they did it when

00:46:42   they did, and all that kind of stuff.

00:46:44   And the reason that they did it when they did was because they needed it to be gone

00:46:47   so they could fit the screen in the X.

00:46:50   That is my feeling, right?

00:46:52   The way that they needed space in the iPhone X, so they had to stretch the screen around

00:46:57   or whatever.

00:46:58   So they ditched the headphone jack in the phone before it, so therefore the story of

00:47:03   the iPhone X wasn't they removed the headphone jack.

00:47:06   There was no reason to remove the headphone jack in the iPhone 7 or whatever one it was.

00:47:11   There was no reason, right?

00:47:13   They just did it then.

00:47:15   It was the sacrificial iPhone.

00:47:18   So they could steer the headlines away from what they needed, which is the next year to

00:47:23   have a big bang phone.

00:47:25   And so I'm thinking, is it something like this?

00:47:27   Would they do it in 2021 because there's something in 2022?

00:47:31   But I can't wrap my head around the benefit.

00:47:35   Because you could say, you could make the cynical argument of like, oh, they just want

00:47:38   to charge you more money.

00:47:39   But Apple don't have a cheap charging solution, as we all well know, right?

00:47:44   Air power doesn't exist.

00:47:46   But also they would actually be moving from a closed ecosystem to a open ecosystem if wireless

00:47:54   charging was the primary way that you would charge this phone.

00:47:59   I would expect that even if they included something like a MagSafe connector, there

00:48:04   would probably still be pushing people to use wireless charging because you're not really

00:48:10   making it seem much sexier.

00:48:11   We just always just a different type of connector now that you can plug it into.

00:48:15   But are they going to put a wireless connector like charger in the box?

00:48:19   Or are they going to put a magnetic, you know, we've been calling it MagSafe.

00:48:23   It's probably more accurate.

00:48:25   And this goes to the data part of it too.

00:48:27   Probably more accurate to call this smart connector.

00:48:29   Yes.

00:48:30   V3.

00:48:31   Mm hmm.

00:48:32   And this is the thing, it's like smart connectors pins, you know, it's magnetic connectors.

00:48:39   You're not, it's not a wireless technology, right?

00:48:43   It's just a portless technology because you're making that connection metal to metal and

00:48:48   magnets are being used to guide it.

00:48:51   And that is something they could do.

00:48:53   Like they could have, look at our new smart connector.

00:48:56   It does power, it does data.

00:48:57   And in the box, they've got a smart connector charger that goes to USB-C and they don't

00:49:03   have to put a Qi charger in the box.

00:49:05   And they could do that.

00:49:07   And that would solve potentially another problem, which is why I keep coming back to the idea

00:49:12   that if they did this, they would have to do a smart connector is survivability of a

00:49:20   bricked phone.

00:49:21   Because that's the other piece of the puzzle here, right?

00:49:23   Because one of the ways, I mean, I don't transfer data over USB anymore.

00:49:28   I just use airdrop, but I used to because it was so much faster, but it's close enough

00:49:32   and it's easy.

00:49:33   But like if you have a dead phone that you can bring it back to life by doing an unbrick

00:49:40   that phone by attaching it to a Mac and just completely wiping it and reinstalling the

00:49:47   software.

00:49:48   That's good for betas, especially, right?

00:49:50   Like we do betas and like Apple Watch betas are much more dangerous than other betas because

00:49:54   the Apple Watch can't be attached to a computer and fixed if it dies.

00:50:00   So if you had a data connection over that thing, that would be a way that you could

00:50:06   do it because you got to have something, right?

00:50:07   You got to have something in the iPhone.

00:50:08   You can't just shrug and say, if the iPhone bricks take it to an Apple store.

00:50:13   There are other ways they could maybe do it using wireless technology, but you're opening

00:50:17   even more.

00:50:18   So there'll be security issues, let's put it that way because they would need some way

00:50:22   to put it in a mode where it starts up independent of whatever is causing it to brick and it's

00:50:28   looking for the right kind of wireless connection and then it's doing things.

00:50:31   It's like, okay, now that's a whole new class of things you need to secure.

00:50:35   Seems less likely.

00:50:37   The point is not that Apple couldn't do this because I feel like we need to say that.

00:50:42   Apple could do this.

00:50:43   We're also not saying that Apple will do this.

00:50:45   We're just trying to process this report from a fairly reliable source.

00:50:49   I think though, walking through it, you have to start looking at all of the compromises

00:50:54   that might need to be made and all the work that would need to be done to do it.

00:51:00   And then once again, ask the question, is it worth it?

00:51:05   What is the benefit of this?

00:51:08   And I can't see it.

00:51:11   I don't see what the benefit is.

00:51:13   I don't see it.

00:51:16   If completely waterproofing is it, I just don't think that is enough for most people,

00:51:22   like a completely waterproof phone.

00:51:25   I think the people that need their phones to be completely waterproof already found

00:51:30   other options.

00:51:32   You get a case that does it or whatever.

00:51:35   I don't see it.

00:51:38   How much do we really need that?

00:51:39   I don't think it's that much.

00:51:41   They might have the numbers about it, but you're right.

00:51:44   There is a question, which is, is the pursuit of waterproofing as pointless as the pursuit

00:51:51   of design perfection by not having any holes?

00:51:56   Does this really serve somebody or is it just a goal that you set for yourself?

00:52:01   I think more waterproofing is better.

00:52:05   One of my big criticisms of Apple, and they brought this on themselves, is they boast

00:52:09   about that dust and water ingress protection, but they won't stand by it.

00:52:14   Because again, if your phone gets wet because it got dunked, it's your fault and you have

00:52:20   to pay for it.

00:52:22   Apple won't stand by it.

00:52:24   And so I can see Apple saying, "Look, we need to get to the point where if somebody drops

00:52:27   their phone, we can stand by it.

00:52:29   It needs to be that rugged because phone ruggedness is top priority for Apple."

00:52:36   And I can see that argument, like having it, what would be better than a phone that you

00:52:41   could drop and it wouldn't be hurt, and that you could drop in the water and it wouldn't

00:52:45   be hurt?

00:52:46   I don't think those are admirable, but yeah, if all of us have to pay this price where

00:52:52   we're using even more kind of dongles and adapters for things just to do it, is that

00:52:59   a price worth paying?

00:53:01   That said, most of what we'd use an iPhone for is wireless, right?

00:53:06   We're talking about more edge cases, although plugging into a battery or plugging into CarPlay

00:53:11   is not quite an edge case.

00:53:15   That's like the headphone jack, or actually worse than the headphone jack because a lot

00:53:20   of us have batteries on planes or are charging from a USB port, whether it's safe or not.

00:53:28   And that would all be like, "Nope, this needs a dongle now."

00:53:32   That would be, it would be a big step and what do we get out of it?

00:53:38   I don't think that wireless charging has been around for long enough or is prevalent enough

00:53:45   to switch to this like they did when they went to Bluetooth for headphones.

00:53:51   Bluetooth for headphones, and there were good options for that for a long time before we

00:53:55   moved to this charger thing.

00:53:57   For me personally, again presuming that this does happen, I do not think that the possibility

00:54:03   for me to have my phone covered under a warranty for water damage, right, is enough for me

00:54:10   to every single day have a more frustrating experience about how to charge my phone.

00:54:16   Because for me it is more frustrating, right, because like for various reasons it's much

00:54:21   more comfortable for me to use a pop socket when I use my phone.

00:54:25   That means I cannot use wireless charging without removing the pop socket every day,

00:54:31   which is very frustrating.

00:54:33   So I plug my phone in and I'm very happy to plug my phone in.

00:54:35   I have docks, I have a, my home is full of cables that work with plugging my phone in.

00:54:41   And great, it works great for me.

00:54:42   I don't feel like I need to make the change but anyway.

00:54:46   Minchi Kuo's report also says that 2021 will see a follow up to the iPhone SE after all,

00:54:52   a full screen but no face ID.

00:54:53   There will be touch ID built into the power button.

00:54:57   This also follows along with some other reports that Apple may be moving to releasing phones

00:55:01   at two intervals in the year, cheaper phones in H1 and pro phones in H2.

00:55:09   Which would be interesting, right, like as a model.

00:55:12   I think that some of the rumours would suggest that like there would even like the iPhone,

00:55:17   what would be the iPhone 11, would come out in the first half of the year and then the

00:55:22   more expensive phones come out in the second half of the year.

00:55:25   And this could start as early as 2020 or 2021.

00:55:30   I like the idea of a new SE.

00:55:34   I think it's the full screen thing is interesting because that means it is not a drop, you know,

00:55:42   like a perfect match for the eight.

00:55:46   Right.

00:55:48   It's it's more interesting than that.

00:55:51   I guess it would have no notch either.

00:55:53   Right.

00:55:54   Or would it would have a fake notch but no face ID?

00:55:57   I think it would have a notch because it would have the earpiece and the camera in it might

00:56:00   be smaller but I think it would have a notch.

00:56:02   Yeah, no, you might be right.

00:56:03   And then and then touch ID in a different place.

00:56:07   I don't know.

00:56:08   This is a it's an interesting idea.

00:56:09   Changing the cadence is an interesting idea.

00:56:11   Getting the having two phone releases a year, two marketing events, two different places,

00:56:18   opportunities to market your phone like their competitors do that Samsung doesn't drop all

00:56:23   of the galaxies at once right and Apple is great at marketing itself and drawing attention

00:56:29   to itself.

00:56:30   So the the challenge is just to make it that the phones feel new right like if the iPhone

00:56:37   11 came out before the iPhone 11 Pro.

00:56:43   Would it you know, are you losing something by having them, you know separated where it's

00:56:50   you get two bumps but neither of them is as big as the bump you get if you put them out

00:56:54   together.

00:56:55   I've is interesting marketing question for Apple how they want to do it, but I will say

00:56:59   that they're they're competition has managed to do pretty well separating their product

00:57:06   release leases for phones.

00:57:09   Yeah.

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00:58:52   So Apple have announced via an email the orders for the Mac Pro and Pro Display XDR will be

00:58:57   available on December 10th.

00:58:59   I struggle with XDR.

00:59:01   I keep wanting to say 10DR, which is hilarious, but Apple did this to me.

00:59:05   The Pro Display XDR will be available starting December 10th.

00:59:08   So I would probably expect we'll see reviews this week because the product can be purchased

00:59:15   this week.

00:59:16   So if—

00:59:17   Yeah, we'll see what the reviews are, right?

00:59:18   Because if the iMac Pro is any indication, and this is a higher-end product even than

00:59:24   the iMac Pro, that Apple will not be doing its usual review program because what Apple

00:59:32   learned—and this actually ties into the article I wrote on Mac Pro last week—what Apple

00:59:37   wants to do is make it clear that a product that is for high-end Pros is not mismarketed

00:59:43   and misunderstood by people who don't live in that world.

00:59:48   Like with the iMac Pro, that was definitely the message was, "We don't want regular

00:59:52   reviewers to look at this because this is not a regular computer.

00:59:55   We only want people who really get the needs of the high-end Pros to even touch this thing."

01:00:03   And so, you know, they ceded the iMac Pro to YouTubers.

01:00:08   They also put it in a lot of like Pro workflows and then used like had quotes or did interviews

01:00:13   with you know or set up media interviews with the people who had been using it for a month

01:00:19   in the background in secret like to edit a project or to compose something or whatever

01:00:23   it was.

01:00:24   And they did a very different game plan on how to market that.

01:00:28   I would imagine that's going to happen again.

01:00:29   So will there be reviews this week?

01:00:33   Yeah, but I would not be surprised if it's a lot of like a video editor's blog where

01:00:40   he reviews his time with it and stuff like that with maybe some very hand-picked people

01:00:51   who Apple thinks are trustworthy and understand what the high-end kind of Pro market is.

01:00:57   But I think it's going to be a really different kind of release and I can say that just based

01:01:02   on the iMac Pro.

01:01:04   Like I reviewed the iMac Pro and for Macworld and you know, Phil Schiller tweeted it out,

01:01:12   which was cool.

01:01:13   I think that was the first time I got one of those.

01:01:16   Like Apple didn't give me an iMac Pro.

01:01:17   I bought an iMac Pro because I wanted it and then I reviewed it.

01:01:20   But like they didn't give me one.

01:01:22   They're like, nope, there was no, no, not interested because you know, I'm not a high-end

01:01:27   enough user, which I would argue because of all the audio stuff I do.

01:01:31   It's going to be like that.

01:01:32   So it's going to be an interesting week, but I think it's here.

01:01:34   I think whoever is updating that is at Mac Pro Day yet.

01:01:37   Website, I think it's time, right?

01:01:40   I guess we know now that tomorrow is Mac Pro Day.

01:01:44   - So you wrote an article that you referenced on Macworld urging people to seriously consider

01:01:50   making, no, not making these purchases.

01:01:54   They seriously consider before they buy if they actually should be buying a Mac Pro.

01:02:01   Was this like a public service that you felt like you needed to provide?

01:02:06   - Look, I have to write 52 columns a year for Mac Pro.

01:02:09   - No one knew you were going to say that.

01:02:11   - And I'm like, what?

01:02:13   And then it hit me.

01:02:14   It's like, okay, the Mac Pro is coming out.

01:02:17   Let's have the conversation that is essentially the conversation that I just described Apple

01:02:23   having in its PR planning, which is, they really don't want to target this at regular

01:02:30   people because it's not for them.

01:02:33   And it doesn't do them a service because people will point and laugh at the $100,000 configuration.

01:02:39   People will point and laugh at the $1,000 monitor stand on the $6,000, $5,000 monitor.

01:02:45   It can't be judged in that way because it just looks bad.

01:02:48   It's not for them.

01:02:50   It's an incredibly niche, high-end product.

01:02:53   - Which makes it pointless to give to you.

01:02:57   If the message they want to get out is to like, it's a very specific message that they

01:03:00   want to get out, giving it to you maybe isn't the right choice, right?

01:03:04   - I mean, for me personally, I feel like I'm more qualified than a lot of reviewers to

01:03:09   do it because I do the audio stuff and some video stuff.

01:03:12   And so I actually do max out my eight cores of my iMac Pro, but it still would be overkill.

01:03:18   But at least I have, my writing about computers is not the part of my job that would require

01:03:25   it.

01:03:26   - The vast majority of reviews that we see are by YouTubers, but video professionals,

01:03:30   because they are more in need of it.

01:03:33   - So my point with the article I ended up writing was I hear a lot of Mac Pro desire,

01:03:44   let's say, from people who don't need it, but they want it.

01:03:50   And I don't want to say, and I hope it didn't come across this way because my goal here

01:03:54   is not to say, even if you want it, you shouldn't buy it.

01:03:58   Because what it says in the article is, look, if you want it, get it.

01:04:02   But my point is, don't fool yourself and say you need this for your work because you don't.

01:04:09   You don't.

01:04:10   Like if you need, there was a time when the Apple's high-end tower was for a huge chunk

01:04:18   of the Mac market, that the consumer stuff was really low powered.

01:04:21   Like an iMac was for, it was like a toy.

01:04:24   And everybody else used a power Mac.

01:04:27   And then that became the Mac Pro.

01:04:29   But those days are over.

01:04:30   Like the iMac is incredibly powerful.

01:04:34   The Mac mini can be configured to be quite powerful.

01:04:37   There is an iMac Pro.

01:04:39   There are so many other options there that will get you something for a better price

01:04:43   with better features that will get you what you want.

01:04:47   And so I end up with this idea of like, there's people who want it because it's like it used

01:04:53   to be, it's almost like nostalgia.

01:04:55   Like back in the day, I bought a tower and an external monitor and I don't want to buy

01:04:59   an iMac because it's got its own monitor.

01:05:01   I want an external monitor.

01:05:02   It's like, what monitor are you going to buy for it?

01:05:04   The iMac display is so good.

01:05:06   Like I don't, I wouldn't want to give up my iMac monitor.

01:05:11   And Apple is not making an external monitor that's like the iMac 5K monitor.

01:05:16   They're not.

01:05:17   So like then I'm getting a third party monitor.

01:05:19   It's like, you know, the iMac is a better deal.

01:05:22   I get it, like maybe you absolutely can't have an iMac.

01:05:25   Okay.

01:05:26   But I see a lot of excuses that are like, well, this is like it used to be and I want

01:05:30   to do it again.

01:05:31   And again, if you are buying a beautiful art object, you just want a beautiful Mac and

01:05:36   money is no object and you're never going to use even a fraction of the power of it,

01:05:41   but it's worth it to you because it looks great and it fits your lifestyle.

01:05:45   That's great.

01:05:46   It's like buying a luxury car.

01:05:47   You don't need to buy a luxury car.

01:05:49   Be clear that you don't need it.

01:05:51   You just want it.

01:05:52   And that's the difference.

01:05:53   And I was happy because I was sort of thinking of John Syracuse while I was writing some

01:05:57   of this.

01:05:58   Sort of thinking.

01:05:59   Come on.

01:06:00   I mean, I was, I was thinking of other people too, not just John Syracuse.

01:06:03   But you know, he said on ATP last week, he said, I don't need it.

01:06:06   I don't need it.

01:06:07   I want it.

01:06:08   And it's like, yes, that is the right answer.

01:06:11   Right?

01:06:12   Like just be clear.

01:06:13   And so I thought it was, I thought it was interesting and worth writing about this whole

01:06:16   thing that even Apple is steering this away from most people because it's not for most

01:06:21   people and that, um, that people should give it a, give it a think because you don't want

01:06:28   this.

01:06:29   Like, uh, I, of course there are always exceptions.

01:06:31   And when you say you shouldn't buy it, somebody said, well, actually I need it because I had

01:06:34   a guy who said, I need it because I need to have, I need to attach like 30 USB-C devices

01:06:42   at once and I need card slots to do that because their hubs don't exist.

01:06:46   I'm like, okay, yes, you need to spend $6,000 and then buy a whole bunch of cards that give

01:06:52   you USB-C ports.

01:06:54   Um, that is an edge case.

01:06:56   But yes, I give you, I, I made the hand signs.

01:06:59   I give you the special dispensation.

01:07:00   Go forth and buy a Mac Pro.

01:07:02   You have been granted.

01:07:03   Yes.

01:07:04   Go forth and buy a Mac Pro with my blessings.

01:07:07   But you know, mostly it's silly.

01:07:09   Like this is overkill.

01:07:10   It's just overkill.

01:07:11   And if you want overkill, great, go buy it.

01:07:14   It's your money.

01:07:16   But um, you know, let's just be clear.

01:07:19   This product is not meant, it's not meant for almost anybody and that's not failing

01:07:24   of it.

01:07:25   It's designed that way.

01:07:26   It is the halo car as John Siracusa keeps calling it.

01:07:30   Like it is, it is an important symbol.

01:07:34   This is my larger point in the article.

01:07:36   The Mac Pro is very important because it's a symbol of Apple's commitment to pros of Apple's

01:07:39   commitment to the Mac.

01:07:42   It's I think a symbol of Apple's re-engagement with the Mac after it kind of lost that engagement.

01:07:48   It's this reestablishing of ties.

01:07:50   I think that's all great.

01:07:52   You know, but the symbol, don't buy the symbol, right?

01:07:56   Like you, you, the halo car, you're like, wow, the company X makes a great halo car.

01:08:01   I'm going to buy the cheap sedan that company X makes because I'm not going to buy that.

01:08:05   I'm going to buy this.

01:08:06   Like most people, you can get excited about it because what it means about Apple's commitment

01:08:10   to the Mac is great, but don't buy it.

01:08:13   Like it's not for you.

01:08:14   It's not for you and save your money unless you don't care because you just want it because

01:08:20   it's cool.

01:08:21   And that's fine.

01:08:22   It's fine.

01:08:23   I'm not going to, I'm not, I'm not trying to judge somebody who wants a cool car because

01:08:26   it's cool.

01:08:27   There's nothing wrong with that.

01:08:28   I have seen a little bit of a streak among people of like, well, no, no, I need it.

01:08:32   I need it.

01:08:33   I need the expandability.

01:08:34   Do you?

01:08:35   Most people don't.

01:08:36   Maybe you do.

01:08:37   Maybe you're the guy with the 30 USB-C ports, but most people don't need expandability.

01:08:42   You can expand outside of the case of the computer.

01:08:44   It's not a problem.

01:08:45   Like you can do it.

01:08:46   It's like, it's fine.

01:08:47   And that goes to the nostalgia part of it, which is I do absolutely sense that there

01:08:49   is a group of people who are like, I don't want external.

01:08:52   I want everything in internal.

01:08:54   And John Sirkus is a little bit like this too, where it's like, no, no, external is

01:08:57   bad and internal is the only way to go.

01:08:59   Nobody really like expandability exists on the outside now and on modern computers.

01:09:04   That's just what it is.

01:09:05   And again, there are going to be very specific reasons where putting in a card or something

01:09:10   like that is a better choice.

01:09:11   Absolutely.

01:09:12   There are always going to be exceptions to the rule, but I get a little tired of people

01:09:16   who their argument seems to be, well, we didn't do it in the old days.

01:09:21   So the old ways are best.

01:09:22   It's like, man, the world changed.

01:09:24   The world moved on.

01:09:25   Do you think that there is an element of that in amongst a lot of people who have it, like

01:09:30   they're just used to conditioned in their mind that they need or want to have the most

01:09:36   powerful machine.

01:09:37   So they would always get the Mac Pro, even though now these days, the most powerful machine

01:09:43   that Apple makes is more power than most people will need because the iMac Pro exists.

01:09:50   Yeah.

01:09:51   The root of the whole thing is it used to be that you bought the high end Mac because

01:09:58   you needed that power because the lower end Macs didn't have it.

01:10:03   And we left that era a long time ago.

01:10:06   Like it's not new.

01:10:07   The Mac Pro back when it was a cheese grater the first time was constantly being pushed

01:10:13   upward and upward and upward in terms of specs and price to a narrower and narrower band

01:10:19   of high end users.

01:10:20   That was, this is not new.

01:10:22   This has been going on this whole century, basically.

01:10:28   It, that push upward and with it has come the capability of laptops and iMacs to handle

01:10:37   the load for even pros like iMac Pro, but honestly even the regular iMac is powerful

01:10:43   enough for most people and the MacBook Pro for sure.

01:10:47   So yeah, so I just, I think it's fascinating.

01:10:50   I don't think I'm going to change anybody's minds, but I did.

01:10:52   I did want to kind of snap out of it kind of moment of like, you know what?

01:10:58   You don't need it.

01:10:59   If you want it, that's fine, but you really don't need it.

01:11:02   And somebody who's seriously considering like, should I get the Mac Pro because I can use

01:11:07   that power?

01:11:08   It's like, no.

01:11:10   Like almost certainly no.

01:11:12   The people who are going to buy it know why they're going to buy it.

01:11:15   And for everybody else, it's like save your money unless you really just want it because

01:11:18   it's cool because it is.

01:11:19   It's got stainless steel frame and aluminum skin and it is awesome looking and you can

01:11:26   put wheels on it and roll it around.

01:11:28   You can ride it around, put a small animal on it and push it around the house.

01:11:33   You can do that, but this is a Mac for what would you say?

01:11:40   0.01% of the market, if that.

01:11:44   To quote Kanye West, and I apologize for the single gendering in this quote, "No one man

01:11:49   should have all that power."

01:11:50   It's too much.

01:11:51   It's too much.

01:11:52   That's right.

01:11:53   So Stephen Hackett will get one of these.

01:11:58   He will, I guarantee it.

01:11:59   Oh, I'm convinced he will.

01:12:02   Hopefully not until about 2025.

01:12:04   I don't think he'll be able to win.

01:12:06   Add it to his old Mac collection.

01:12:10   I think this is the perfect thing to talk about today before Mac Pro Hysteria sits in

01:12:15   tomorrow.

01:12:16   I'm pleased that we were able to get the show out before the Mac Pro is like completely

01:12:21   unveiled to the world.

01:12:22   We got to get in first and be like, please, everyone just think about it.

01:12:27   I mean, we're talking about the Mac Pro here, but even amongst Mac Pro buyers, don't buy

01:12:32   the display.

01:12:33   Yeah, well that's, that is also true, right?

01:12:36   I understand it, but that is so much for most people.

01:12:40   I think even if you talk to Apple about it, I think if you talk to Apple people behind

01:12:46   the scenes, they would probably tell you, yeah.

01:12:50   The display is even less applicable than the Mac Pro.

01:12:58   Because the Mac Pro itself, if you do have very specific needs that can be served by

01:13:03   it, you can configure it and build it to be the machine that you want it to be to meet

01:13:08   your needs.

01:13:09   The Pro Display XDR.

01:13:11   Nobody should buy that display.

01:13:12   The shame of it is people are going to buy it because it looks like it.

01:13:16   That's the problem.

01:13:17   It is built to do what it is supposed to do, which is to compete with these incredibly

01:13:22   expensive displays.

01:13:23   It is a $40,000 monitor for $6,000, but you know what?

01:13:27   You don't need a $40,000 monitor.

01:13:30   I know it's not fun.

01:13:31   Like again, if it brings you joy and you have the money, great.

01:13:36   But I, yeah, but it's just, it's a whole lot that's not, I don't know what the last thing

01:13:44   I wrote in the Mac world piece is.

01:13:48   It's a symbol, but it's also a status symbol.

01:13:51   And if you want to buy a status symbol, if it makes you happy to have an expensive computer,

01:13:55   do it.

01:13:56   I'm not saying don't do it, but I am saying, I think it's healthier to just admit that

01:14:03   you're doing it because it's cool and that you don't need it.

01:14:06   And that just let go of the fantasy that you actually need it because you know, nobody

01:14:11   does.

01:14:12   - I can extend this to myself.

01:14:13   I don't need an iMac Pro, like really on a daily basis.

01:14:17   I could be fine with a regular iMac.

01:14:18   I wanted the iMac Pro.

01:14:20   That was what I wanted.

01:14:21   That was the decision that I made to spend more money than I needed to, to get the computer

01:14:24   that I desired rather than the computer that I needed.

01:14:28   But I wanted it, but I don't want it.

01:14:32   Like 15,000 pounds want it, which is what I would probably be in to get myself a Mac

01:14:37   Pro and a display, you know?

01:14:39   Don't want it that much.

01:14:42   So just think about it.

01:14:47   And if anybody buys one in Europe, I want to know where it says it was made.

01:14:55   So I will say to the upgradians out there, if you're not in America and you buy one of

01:14:59   these, take a picture of where it says it's assembled.

01:15:04   'Cause I am convinced that they're not assembled in America.

01:15:06   And I just want to know if that's the answer.

01:15:09   So if any upgradian out there does this and can show me, I will very happily, very happily

01:15:16   do that.

01:15:17   I'm very happy to receive that.

01:15:18   I'm sure I can come up with some kind of bounty, but I just need to know that information.

01:15:24   Myke needs to know.

01:15:25   So see there, now you need it for your work.

01:15:27   Oh, so I have to buy one now 'cause I need it for follow up.

01:15:30   No, somebody else can buy it 'cause they need to help Myke.

01:15:34   It's the most expensive way to get yourself mentioned on upgrade ever.

01:15:37   Yeah.

01:15:38   Yeah.

01:15:39   I guess so.

01:15:40   All right, today's show is also brought to you by Eero.

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01:17:05   Our thanks to Eero for their support of this show and all of Relay FM.

01:17:11   So now we will do some #AskUpgrade questions.

01:17:16   And the first one today comes from Kevin.

01:17:18   The two of you have mentioned that you have stereo home pod setups.

01:17:21   What is their positioning?

01:17:22   Are they arranged near each other or are they on the other sides of the room?

01:17:28   Well, for me, it is on opposite, so my living room/dining room/kitchen is a single long

01:17:37   room.

01:17:38   So I have the speakers sort of in the middle of it on opposite sides of the narrow width.

01:17:44   So there's one on top of the piano and there's one on an end table.

01:17:49   So there's separation, but they're across from each other, which does mean that if you're

01:17:54   on one side of the room, the stereo effect is backward, you're behind the music.

01:18:00   And if you're on the other side, then left is right and right is right.

01:18:04   Left is right and right is left.

01:18:05   The other one left is left and right is right.

01:18:07   So whatever, but I like it.

01:18:08   It's good to fill the room.

01:18:10   But it's fine.

01:18:11   So mine, I have it set up to be like peak positioning for television watching.

01:18:17   So we have our TV in front of us and we have our sofa and I have the home pod set on either

01:18:23   side of the sofa.

01:18:24   We have quite a large sofa and I have them set on either side.

01:18:28   So when we're watching television shows, we get the stereo and we totally do.

01:18:32   Like I was watching the show, I was watching a show last night, I was watching The Crown

01:18:35   and one of the characters called out and it only came out on the left home pod and I turned

01:18:39   around and looked at it.

01:18:40   I was like, oh, so it works.

01:18:42   It's great.

01:18:43   And we love it for that.

01:18:45   Holly Zard asks, how do you quote unquote correctly open and pull out each AirPod from its AirPro

01:18:52   Pro case?

01:18:53   So you want to open the lid, but then do you pull out from the ear tip side, so the little

01:18:58   silicone part or from the plastic bulge opposite of the ear tip?

01:19:04   Well we already determined one at a time and from the bulge.

01:19:08   Yeah, it's from the plastic part.

01:19:10   That's how I go to.

01:19:11   I don't pull out from the silicone part.

01:19:13   That seems way more difficult.

01:19:14   Don't do that.

01:19:15   Don't do that.

01:19:16   Don't do that.

01:19:17   I feel like you should touch that part as little as possible anyway.

01:19:20   I feel like.

01:19:21   I don't know if it's like a crazy jams thing, but just don't touch it.

01:19:24   Jim asks, how do you use Instagram on your iPad Pro?

01:19:28   Because of course there is no app.

01:19:30   I added it to my home screen using because you can Instagram has a pretty good web app

01:19:36   that if you try to you know, when you do that thing, the sweet solution thing where you

01:19:41   can add a web site to your home screen.

01:19:45   Right.

01:19:46   And it will create a little icon.

01:19:47   You can do that.

01:19:48   And with some advances made in iOS 12, it makes those look like apps.

01:19:53   So if you save a web page to your home screen, when you open it, it doesn't have any of the

01:19:58   Safari controls anymore.

01:19:59   So it kind of looks like an app.

01:20:01   But Jim is having problems refreshing the content.

01:20:05   I have noticed this myself.

01:20:06   There are two things you can do.

01:20:07   So if you do use this, this is the way to use Instagram on the iPad, by the way, because

01:20:11   yeah, don't use the iPhone app because it's horrible.

01:20:13   Command R if using a keyboard will refresh the page.

01:20:17   Other than that, just try tapping the Instagram logo, like as if it's like a website.

01:20:23   Other than that, force quitting it should kick it back into into use again.

01:20:27   But I have had this happen to me and I don't understand why that is.

01:20:30   But if you're using a keyboard, Command R will do it for you.

01:20:34   Okay.

01:20:35   Marlin asks, I feel like I'm the only person that I know that dislikes dark mode.

01:20:39   It's difficult for my eyes to adjust and they feel more strained than just using True Tone.

01:20:44   What is the hype?

01:20:45   My question will be more, do you use dark mode, Jason?

01:20:48   Do you like it?

01:20:49   If not, why not?

01:20:50   I use it on iOS and I think I have it set to turn on in in dark conditions.

01:20:58   Okay.

01:20:59   And that's mostly because I think when things are when things are dark and it's nighttime,

01:21:05   it is nicer to have the the black background and the white.

01:21:12   I suspect one of Marlin's reactions here is because, you know, it's not black on white,

01:21:17   right?

01:21:18   Like dark mode is mostly kind of gray on dark gray on light gray.

01:21:24   And I don't love it because I think that the contrast is sometimes not enough and that

01:21:30   the black on white is much higher contrast tends to be than the other way around.

01:21:35   And low contrast is not great, depending on the color choices.

01:21:38   And I think a lot of stuff isn't contrasty enough.

01:21:40   But I do like it.

01:21:41   I have moments where it's a particularly dark morning and I'm looking at an app and there's

01:21:48   not a lot of light in the house yet.

01:21:50   And but it's sunrise.

01:21:52   And so it flips it over into light mode.

01:21:54   And I don't like it.

01:21:56   Like I had that moment where I'm like, ah, it's it's too much because it's still pretty

01:22:00   dark out.

01:22:01   So.

01:22:02   So, yeah, I use it a little bit, but I don't I don't love it.

01:22:04   I am on the Mac.

01:22:05   I don't use it at all.

01:22:07   All dark mode all the time on it.

01:22:09   Oh, boy.

01:22:10   Wow.

01:22:11   I even use my Mac.

01:22:12   Do you need it for your work or is it just a symbol?

01:22:14   It's personal preference.

01:22:15   I just prefer applications with dark modes anyway.

01:22:18   I have for a long time.

01:22:20   And when iOS gave it's like all apps that do it automatically will set it for me.

01:22:25   If I have set it myself, I'll set it myself.

01:22:27   I just prefer dark UI.

01:22:29   I don't I couldn't tell you why it is.

01:22:31   It's not an OLED thing because I do it on my iPad, too.

01:22:34   I do it on my iMac as well.

01:22:36   I just prefer dark UI to bright UI.

01:22:41   I've been and I've been this way for a long time, like from when applications first started

01:22:44   doing dark modes like Twitter applications like Tweetbot and stuff.

01:22:47   I always went to the dark mode.

01:22:49   I just prefer dark with light text than light with dark text.

01:22:53   That's just my personal preference.

01:22:54   All right.

01:22:55   And finally today, Andy asks, Jason, do you have a favorite cookie recipe?

01:23:00   I do.

01:23:01   I will put a link in the show notes to the ginger molasses cookies that I've made the

01:23:05   last few years, which are basically out of a blue bottle of coffee and they are great.

01:23:14   They have a huge amount of ginger in them.

01:23:16   They are definitely better after they've sat for a day.

01:23:19   I'd say for the flavors to kind of fully permeate permeate and for them to cool off entirely.

01:23:28   They are I can't eat them anymore because they use they use flour and I don't get to

01:23:36   have wheat anymore in my life.

01:23:38   I am currently planning on a bottle of ingredients actually workshopping some new ginger cookies

01:23:44   because I love ginger and I love ginger cookies.

01:23:46   But for those of you who can still eat glutenous things, check out the ginger molasses cookies.

01:23:53   They are great.

01:23:55   They're very serious, very serious.

01:23:57   One of the reasons I included this because we've spoken about this cookie before we have

01:24:00   a joint love for this cookie because I love the blue bottle cookie.

01:24:05   They do not make it anymore.

01:24:07   Oh, interesting.

01:24:08   So I think out of respect to you when you went gluten free, they stopped serving your

01:24:14   favorite cookie in blue bottle.

01:24:16   Yeah, I've never actually had it in blue bottle.

01:24:17   I just make it myself.

01:24:18   But yes, but now they don't.

01:24:20   They replaced it with something else, which I don't.

01:24:22   I think it's a chocolate cookie, which is not as good.

01:24:24   It's just not as good.

01:24:25   You will need a lot of ginger.

01:24:27   It is a spectacular amount of grated fresh ginger that goes into these things, but it's

01:24:32   so good.

01:24:33   So good.

01:24:34   I miss them.

01:24:36   If you'd like to, I hope you can work out something for, for, for, for, I'll find a

01:24:40   replacement.

01:24:41   I've got some, I've got some things that I'm going to try.

01:24:43   The ginger is the key thing, right?

01:24:45   Just like, just put a bunch of ginger in something and have that instead, whatever.

01:24:48   It's just the ginger, frankly, stuff it into some gluten free bread.

01:24:51   Oh, that sounds terrible.

01:24:55   If you want to send in a question to finish out the show, you have a question answered,

01:24:59   you need some help.

01:25:00   Maybe you want to get our favorite recipes, hashtag ask upgrade.

01:25:03   You just send out a tweet with that hashtag and it will be included.

01:25:07   Don't forget to submit your nominations for the 2019 upgrade ease by going to upgrade ease

01:25:12   dot vote and filling out the form there.

01:25:14   If you want to find Jason online, six colors.com.

01:25:18   He's at J snell J S N E double L on Twitter.

01:25:21   I am at I Myke I M Y K E.

01:25:24   Thanks again to our sponsors this week.

01:25:26   Eero, ID tech and express VPN, and we'll be back next week until then say goodbye Jason

01:25:32   snow.

01:25:33   Goodbye everybody.

01:25:33   [inaudible]

01:25:38   [Music]

01:25:40   [ Silence ]