269: A Beep Beep from Far Away


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:08   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 269. Today's show is brought to you by Linode, Kensington, and Tax Expander from Smile.

00:00:17   My name is Myke Hurley and I have the absolute pleasure of being joined by Mr. Jason Snell. Hi, Jason Snell.

00:00:24   Hi, Myke Hurley, how are you?

00:00:25   I'm fine and dandy, my friend. How are you?

00:00:28   Um, I'm fine.

00:00:31   We're gonna talk about the weather in Snell Talk this week because Jason's been dealing with quite a situation,

00:00:37   which is why we're recording a day later than usual. People usually think that we have something exciting to talk about, right?

00:00:44   That like there's some embargo, but no, we were embargoed by power outages.

00:00:50   Yes, yes, we were personally, I was personally embargoed. My house has been embargoed for a while now.

00:00:56   What's going on in California, Jason Snell?

00:00:58   Oh, there's so much going on in California, Myke Hurley. Really, so yeah, there, this is the, this is like a season that we have that doesn't exist in most parts of the world, but exists in California.

00:01:12   And it's a season where there are high winds that blow, they blow offshore, so they're blowing toward the ocean from out in the deserts that are over the mountains in like Nevada and Arizona and places like that.

00:01:27   And the, so this time of year, this happens and there are these immense pressure gradients between, you know, out in Nevada in the desert and on the coast and as a result, the air moves toward the coast and you end up getting these incredibly high winds.

00:01:46   They're dry, they're warm, and what ends up happening is this is, and another thing about our climate is that it doesn't rain between like April or May and November generally, which I know is mind boggling for a lot of people, but it just, we are a dry summer climate.

00:02:05   It doesn't rain in the summer, it only rains in the winter. And so everything's dry and the hot winds are blowing and there are fires. And a lot of those fires get started because electrical towers are in, forests are in tree areas that are very dry and the wind blows really hard and there's a spark or something falls or fails and explodes.

00:02:29   And once the trees are on fire, the wind whips the flames and we've had some pretty major fire catastrophes in California the last few years and it always happens around now.

00:02:41   So our local power company, or regional power company, decided that rather than being sued into oblivion by all of the people whose houses burned down the last few years, it would try to save people from that fate by turning off the power in regions where the winds were happening.

00:03:05   That turns out to have not entirely worked because a couple fires still got started and they were still the fault apparently of the electric company, but what it has meant is that several million people in California have had their power shut off in the last week.

00:03:19   Our power went out Saturday evening. We got plenty of warning. We did all our laundry, we charged all our batteries, but our power went off Saturday evening.

00:03:27   And as of this recording, which I'm doing in an undisclosed location that does have power in the Bay Area, we don't have power.

00:03:35   It's Tuesday by the way.

00:03:37   It's Tuesday as we record this. We may not get power back until Thursday or Friday. It's entirely possible.

00:03:43   And at one point, I think this is not true at the moment, but at one point over the weekend, essentially our entire county had no power.

00:03:51   So everybody in Marin County was shut down, as well as other parts of the Bay Area, and this has also happened a little bit in Southern California.

00:03:57   So it's a mess and I have no power and I just, you know, I'm at a friend's place now where there's power.

00:04:05   I honestly cannot fathom this. Like I will say that like, okay, this is obviously a very terrible thing and it is hopefully protecting you against something horrific.

00:04:16   And these wildfires have been devastating over the last couple of years in California.

00:04:22   Out of interest, Jason, do you have any suggestion of where like, if the people wanted to donate money to relief funds, like is there...

00:04:29   I don't. I don't. If they exist, I'm not aware of them. But there's a lot. This is going to be a great episode, Myke, because this is going to be the episode where you and I talk and you tell me what's happened.

00:04:41   Because I haven't mentioned the best part. So we prepared, we charged all our batteries, we did all our laundry, we did all those things.

00:04:48   You know, the one thing though that I really hadn't anticipated is most of the cell towers went out and lost their connections to the internet.

00:04:59   And so we have had no internet or cell phone service.

00:05:05   Now our local Whole Foods that I famously bought, you know, peanut butter and...

00:05:11   Manchago!

00:05:12   Manchago with Apple Pay, they have a gigantic generator that they had installed last week and they have internet and they have Wi-Fi and they're open.

00:05:21   And it's been a zoo over there, but we have several times a day gone over and gotten on the Wi-Fi and checked in, you know, very briefly, but it's really not a solution to this.

00:05:29   I'm aware that there's been some news and I'm looking forward to talking about it and you may be able to tell me more about it.

00:05:36   But before we did that, I actually wanted to give a tech angle to this story, which is how we have, you know, the positive and negative about how we've weathered this extended power outage.

00:05:48   And one of them is I am very happy that we have some large, large batteries, the kind of which you take on a plane with you.

00:05:56   It's actually the two largest batteries we have are the ones from our Away suitcases.

00:06:00   Away is sometimes a sponsor here, but you know, it's a really big battery.

00:06:04   It can charge a phone multiple times.

00:06:06   And so we have those and I have a couple other little batteries and that's been really helpful in sort of keeping our phones topped up.

00:06:13   Yes, if it came down to it, we could just go, we could like go into the car and turn on the car and do it that way.

00:06:19   But we haven't had to resort to anything like that.

00:06:22   And so having those batteries has been great.

00:06:24   I bought a few months ago in anticipation of this, actually, I bought a solar charger, which we can put a link in the show notes.

00:06:30   It's basically I think it's mostly for camping, but it's this little thing that you unfold and it's got three big solar panels and it's got USB ports and you hang it on.

00:06:40   I hang I was hanging it on my my fence yesterday afternoon and charging one of the batteries.

00:06:46   And I'd say, you know, in a day it will charge one of those away batteries.

00:06:51   That's not bad, though.

00:06:52   It's not bad.

00:06:53   And you can put your devices out there, too.

00:06:55   But, you know, then you then you're laying your phone out there and and it's just sitting out there.

00:07:00   And I thought, why not just charge up the battery and then give us that battery again so that I did that.

00:07:06   That's worked. OK.

00:07:08   You know, the funniest thing, though, is I had this realization on day two, which was I've been using the time productively.

00:07:15   I've been putting my office.

00:07:17   I've been redoing stuff in my office and moving furniture around.

00:07:20   I painted and it's the whole you know, I got a new desk and the whole thing is like setting up my office after five years in it as a temporary office space to embrace the fact that it's mine and make it nicer.

00:07:30   So I've been doing a lot of those tasks involved, like rewiring and moving things around.

00:07:35   And you'd have to unplug everything anyway.

00:07:37   And that's not a problem.

00:07:39   So I did a lot of that.

00:07:42   And I realized I have two UPS's.

00:07:43   I have two uninterruptible power system devices, which are basically power strips with a giant battery.

00:07:49   And the idea is that your computer, if the power goes out, you can keep using your computer for a little while.

00:07:53   And I just thought I was like, wait a second.

00:07:57   I could use that now.

00:07:59   I shut them off.

00:08:01   I could use that.

00:08:02   We could use that power.

00:08:03   I could drain those batteries.

00:08:04   And so my first thought was, well, this will be great.

00:08:06   I will attach an Eero and my cable modem and turn it on and then we'll have Wi-Fi.

00:08:14   Well, my cable company, there's no internet on the cable lines.

00:08:19   The whole thing is down.

00:08:21   That didn't work.

00:08:22   I mean, I got it up and running and I got on the Wi-Fi, but boy, there was nothing on the other end of the line.

00:08:26   Yes, but the cable modem never synced up with that.

00:08:31   So that was a failure.

00:08:32   However, what this made me realize is that at night when it got dark and you couldn't see anything except with a flashlight,

00:08:40   I actually took a floor lamp from my office, put it out in our living room,

00:08:45   ran an extension cord into the garage to one of these UPSs and turned it on.

00:08:51   And that's actually given us a lamp and some light in a neighborhood that is, by the way, completely dark.

00:08:58   Every now and then you can hear somebody running a generator for a little while.

00:09:01   There was one house up on the hill that had lights last night and we're like, show off.

00:09:05   You have a generator.

00:09:06   You're showing off.

00:09:07   But I didn't want to buy a gas generator.

00:09:10   They're expensive and then you've got to have a gasoline tank and keep refilling it.

00:09:13   And I really didn't want to do that.

00:09:15   But the UPS gave us power.

00:09:16   Now the reason, it doesn't need to be plugged in because there's no power.

00:09:20   I could have just brought it into the living room.

00:09:22   And so you might be wondering, well, why have a big extension cord on it?

00:09:26   And the answer is, Myke, that UPSs are emergency equipment that is intended to alert you that the power is out

00:09:35   and that you need to shut down your computer.

00:09:37   And so as a result, when they are not on power and they're supplying power via their battery, they beep loudly.

00:09:44   So I put it far back in the garage, ran this long extension cord, closed the door, had the lamp,

00:09:53   and still, you know, you're sitting there reading and every 30 seconds there's a beep, beep from far away.

00:10:01   But actually those things have been great because it was really nice to have something that wasn't like a flashlight

00:10:09   or a little battery operated lantern but was an actual kind of like, you know, floor lamp that was not super bright

00:10:17   but we've had that the last few nights and that's actually been pretty nice.

00:10:21   So if you're ever in a situation like that, don't forget that you have, if you've got an interruptible power saving device,

00:10:27   power system device, one of these UPSs for computers, that's a battery and it's got outlets on it

00:10:34   and you can put it to work until it dies, you know, you can put it to work for you.

00:10:38   And I have two, so I killed one. The one that actually beeps the most aggressively has four beeps every 30 seconds.

00:10:44   It's super annoying. The one with only two beeps, which is the CyberPower CP685, we'll put it in the show notes

00:10:50   because it was less annoying to me, it beeps, but that worked.

00:10:53   And so the other funny thing that happened is they told us on the text messages we got and everything,

00:11:03   it was like, well, stay tuned to the radio for updates, listen to the local news station,

00:11:07   we'll give you updates about if there are evacuations and where the power is and all of those sort of things.

00:11:12   And I thought, well, you know, hopefully we'll have the internet, which we didn't have.

00:11:16   And I thought, do I have a radio? And the answer is I do have a radio in my house.

00:11:22   I thought about this before the power went out. I thought, no, I do have a radio.

00:11:26   It is, I have kept, since my high school years, I have kept the, it's not a Walkman because it's not from Sony,

00:11:34   but I've kept my fake Walkman cassette player that I used when I was in high school to play music.

00:11:40   And it's also a radio, an AM/FM radio. And one of the reasons I've kept it is because I have some tapes,

00:11:46   like when I did a high school radio station and stuff like that,

00:11:50   I have some tapes from them that are not music that you can get on Apple Music.

00:11:54   They're like souvenir kind of things that I've been meaning to,

00:11:57   and I have now mostly digitized that stuff and recorded it into a format that is not a cassette tape.

00:12:03   But that's why, mostly why I kept it around. But it's also useful if I need to listen to tune in the radio.

00:12:09   And so I want to praise the fake Walkman from the '80s because, you know what hasn't changed in all of this time,

00:12:19   Myke, is batteries are the same. It takes two AA batteries. They haven't changed battery formats.

00:12:27   And it's got a headphone jack. And you just plug in, I plugged in a pair of old headphone jack earpods to it.

00:12:35   And it worked fine. So let's hear it for the headphone jack. Apple's trying to kill it,

00:12:41   but I still had headphone jack headphones around and my Walkman uses that.

00:12:45   So I listened to news updates, I listened to a World Series game, I listened to a football game.

00:12:50   I've been reading my Kindle a lot because in airplane mode those things hold a charge for a very long time.

00:12:55   And we have been eating like kings because we have a lot of frozen stuff that's slowly thawing,

00:13:02   frozen meat in the freezer that's slowly thawing. So we've just been thawing that and having steak every night

00:13:08   because it's either that or the steak is going to be rotten.

00:13:11   So that's, yeah, anyway, but we haven't been in any fire danger, which is good.

00:13:15   And hopefully our power will come back soon. And thanks to my good friends,

00:13:20   Phil Michaels and Lisa Schmeiser, who are providing our studio space today

00:13:24   and letting us charge and also take warm showers, which is a nice thing.

00:13:28   Yeah, thank you to them for their help in helping this show get together.

00:13:32   And thank you, Jason, for working against all of that to be here today. It's much appreciated.

00:13:37   Yeah, well, we were all hoping that maybe the power would be back on today, but that didn't happen.

00:13:42   So this is plan B, maybe C or D.

00:13:46   I think it's plan C at this point. I don't think this is B.

00:13:49   Plan A was doing upgrade at home on Monday. Plan B was doing upgrade at home on Tuesday.

00:13:53   This is plan C, which is doing upgrade elsewhere.

00:13:56   And fortunately there are other parts of our region that have power and are not in this situation.

00:14:01   So that's where I am.

00:14:03   We do have some follow up. We have a lot to talk about today, but we do have some follow up to begin.

00:14:08   So should we do that, Jason Snell?

00:14:11   Yeah, let's do it.

00:14:12   Earnings call is coming this week. Whether you like it or not, you probably not, I'm assuming, right now.

00:14:18   Yeah, it's Wednesday.

00:14:21   I will, we're going to talk about it in a little bit, but I will be not doing my usual coverage for probably a few reasons,

00:14:29   including the fact that I have no power at my house.

00:14:32   But we will, you know, we'll look at the numbers and we can talk about it next week about what's going on.

00:14:38   As always, with Apple's business, we get this little peek into it. It's Wednesday that they're doing that.

00:14:43   So there's something to look out for. It's been an interesting week so far and there's still a lot to go this week.

00:14:49   Your updated photos book is now out. So take control of photos version 2?

00:14:56   Yep, second edition of this because it was, it had a different title before it was the tech control crash course and now it's just take control of photos.

00:15:03   Big update. It covers Mac and iPhone and iPad. And if you already bought it, I think there's a cheap upgrade price. I think it's $5.

00:15:14   It's also, there's a bundle that they have for $20. You can get that book and Jeff Carlson's book about digital photography.

00:15:21   And yes, this is how I spent my summer going through every feature of both photos apps for the iOS photos app and the Mac photos app.

00:15:30   And a bunch of changes, a bunch of new editing tools on the iPhone and iPad this year.

00:15:36   And there's actually a, the book making tool that came out last year for the Mac is actually, one of them is on iOS now too.

00:15:44   So you can actually use iPad to build photo books if you want to.

00:15:49   So that's all in the book and you should go check it out if you want to know more about photos.

00:15:52   And last piece of follow up, many upgrade ients, including Glenn, who was first to tell me this, wrote in to say that the disappearing photos bug that I was talking about, how I was watching photos, deleting from my library and didn't know why, is actually a bug with VSCO, the editing app that I use.

00:16:07   If you add photos to VSCO from their photos extension, this happens. But if you import directly into the app, it doesn't.

00:16:14   I don't know why. I don't know why it hasn't been fixed. Maybe it's one of those things that they can't fix it. I don't know.

00:16:20   But that's what's going on there. So it isn't an iOS 13 thing. It was a VSCO problem.

00:16:25   Upstream, Jason Snell. This is a big week because the end of this week on Friday is when Apple TV+ launches.

00:16:35   So there's a lot of content going around about TV+ right now. And we'll hopefully next week we'll be able to give our opinions on the first kind of crop of Apple TV shows.

00:16:45   But the reviews are out. Yeah, we'll see. I might be able to. Well, I will be able to. Who knows if Jason will have power. Fingers crossed.

00:16:53   But there's been, I'm going to put a link in the show notes to an article on MaxLerys where Ryan Christoffel has done a bit of a roundup with some quotes of the reviews from media outlets that have been publishing, who have watched the Apple TV+ shows.

00:17:08   Apparently there is some confusion and head scratching about the fact that Apple have only provided the first three episodes of their shows.

00:17:17   Apparently this is a peculiar thing to do. Well, critics like more episodes. And critics have gotten used to getting, like for HBO's Watchmen they got the first six episodes out of nine.

00:17:29   They like, because there's this problem of saying, you know, is the show any good? And it's like, well, I only saw the first one or I saw the first three.

00:17:35   So you can't necessarily judge the whole thing. But, you know, there's lots of weird things that Apple has done with the screening of these shows.

00:17:43   And of course, with any type of media criticism, the views on all of the shows are mixed and across the entire spectrum of whether people like it or don't like it.

00:17:53   But there are some general trends. And overall, it seems that For All Mankind and Dickinson are the most well praised shows.

00:18:01   For All Mankind is the show about what if the Cold War and Space Race never ended and Dickinson is the kind of modern/classic retelling of Emily Dickinson's life.

00:18:15   I can't really explain that show. I feel like I haven't got my head around it about what it actually is. But it's getting very well praised.

00:18:25   The majority of the criticism, the negative criticism, is aimed towards The Morning Show and See, which are arguably the most hyped shows.

00:18:36   And that could be why people are looking at these more critically. There is definitely a possibility for that.

00:18:44   It seems that there is a belief that The Morning Show gets off to a slow start, but things pick up in the third episode.

00:18:50   And See, a lot of the criticism is around the pacing of the show and that maybe they just spent too much money on it for the sake of it.

00:18:59   It's kind of like the criticism towards See right now. And it seems that some reviewers don't really feel like they get it.

00:19:06   So we'll see. But apparently there is, as we thought, a lot of gore and violence in See. And also just other types of adult-oriented content in the show.

00:19:25   And the criticism I saw in one of my times huddled near the Wi-Fi at Whole Foods was that The Morning Show, I saw one review that said they spent a lot of money on a show that looks like it just could have been on NBC ten years ago.

00:19:38   And again, I don't know how much of that is playing into the narrative where this is Apple, they're new, the knives are new to entertainment, the knives may be out for them a little bit.

00:19:48   There was that story about the expensive NBC kind of thing. And I will point out that saying it could have been on NBC ten years ago, it seems really like a burn and really damning.

00:19:58   But if the review was it's like the West Wing, people would be like, "Wow, that's great!" And that was, guess what, a show that was on NBC like fifteen years ago.

00:20:09   So, you know, I think in the end this was inevitable because it's TV, they're not all liked by, right?

00:20:19   Like this is, Apple's gonna take its lumps and they're gonna have failures and they're gonna have successes.

00:20:24   They're gonna have critical failures and then what will be interesting is what the viewers think too.

00:20:29   Because there are also shows that critics love that fail and shows that critics hate that succeed.

00:20:34   And Apple's gonna have to go through all of that. But I, for one, after talking about this for two years, am looking forward to actually seeing the shows.

00:20:42   Because as my pal Tim Goodman likes to say, "In the end, you just gotta watch the show."

00:20:49   That's the only real way to judge it. You can't judge the trailers, you can't judge the hype, you can't judge the deals, you can't judge the marketing.

00:20:56   It is the show. So I'm looking forward to finally crossing that line where they're gonna launch this thing and we can actually see this stuff.

00:21:03   Yeah, and I'm personally, like, I've read summaries and stuff. I'm not reading reviews and details because I don't want to have my judgement skewed.

00:21:12   Because I want to reserve my own judgement for these shows. Like, I'm not surprised that they are not a universal home run because this kind of content is always to somebody's personal taste.

00:21:23   I have no interest in anything I've seen in Game of Thrones I didn't like. Now, Game of Thrones is considered to be one of the greatest TV shows ever by a lot of people. Or at least most of it.

00:21:35   Certainly one of the most successful TV shows ever.

00:21:38   Yeah, right, but it's just like people's tastes are different and I want to make my own judgement about Apple's content.

00:21:45   But hey, you know what though? And I think this is why they've done this. It's free right now. So it doesn't matter.

00:21:51   The more I'm seeing it's like, ah, clever. I feel like that's why they did this. They only have a smaller selection of shows. I saw some reports today that they're going to be launching new shows every week, every month for the entire year.

00:22:05   They've just got content just pumping in. I mean, we know what's there, maybe six or seven shows at launch. We already know a bunch, right?

00:22:12   That we've seen amazing stories. There's the Kamal Nanjiani show. There's so much content that's not here yet and it will roll out.

00:22:21   But if it's free because you bought an iPhone, or it's free because you bought an iPad or a Mac in the last year or whatever, what difference does it make?

00:22:31   It doesn't matter how good it is. It's free. And maybe you find a few things you like. That's the point, right? They hedge their bets against the content maybe not being a home run for everybody.

00:22:43   Still more news though, Lee Pace and Jared Harris have been cast to star in Apple's Foundation series. So it's a couple of great actors there.

00:22:52   Lee Pace you may know from, what did he play? Ronan in Guardians of the Galaxy?

00:22:59   Yeah, you may know him from Pushing Daisies. He was the lead in that TV show. Jared Harris. He was in Chernobyl.

00:23:06   Mad Men.

00:23:07   And yes, and also The Expanse.

00:23:10   So a couple of great TV/movie actors there. They've signed up for what could be a very big show for Apple. This is the Isaac Asimov adaptation of Foundation.

00:23:23   And if you haven't read Asimov's Foundation, which was a bunch of short stories turned into a book written in the, I want to say '50s, I will just say that it basically doesn't even have characters.

00:23:35   It's not by a modern standards. We did an incomparable episode about it. It's a weird series of books. But I would say that gives huge latitude to the producers.

00:23:46   I think we talked about this when they announced they were picking this up. Huge latitude because you could do whatever. Like you're putting your own take on this idea as outline sketched by Asimov.

00:23:59   But there's so much room to maneuver in there. So I'm looking forward to it. It could be very interesting.

00:24:06   And in advance of Friday, the Apple TV app has launched on Amazon's Fire TV. So that is now available now if you are a Fire TV customer.

00:24:16   So I think at this point, it's everywhere they said it would be. We haven't seen it on the web yet, but I guess that will come Friday.

00:24:24   Yeah, I took this opportunity to install the Roku app on my TV because my TV is a Roku TV. And it is weird, right? When you open one of these apps, suddenly it's like you're using an Apple TV in that one app.

00:24:38   It's very strange. It's because it is like the TV app on the Apple TV and it's all the Apple TV interface conventions except in a different device. It's very strange.

00:24:51   But it's everywhere.

00:24:54   I'm pretty excited, right? Because I feel like we spent the last two years focusing on this when maybe, well, definitely other tech podcasts have not been.

00:25:04   At this point, it is both a joke and a serious thing that we focus on this on this show. It's like something that we have devoted time every single week to for like two years now.

00:25:16   And it's about to happen.

00:25:18   Great run. And this is the end of Upstream. Goodbye, everybody.

00:25:21   There'll never be any more news about streaming media and Apple.

00:25:26   I don't know how we're actually going to structure the reviews. It might be that next week we just spend some time giving some overall feelings on them.

00:25:35   We're going to work it out, right? Depending on how much we have to say and also depending on how the next week goes. Maybe we want to stretch it out a little bit. I don't know.

00:25:42   But we'll work it out. But next week we will be giving our hopefully Jason Wilbur, at least I will be giving my kind of first impressions on Apple's big, big shows.

00:25:51   So see the morning show and for all mankind. There you go. It's a man on fire.

00:25:58   I don't know what I was going to do that make any sense. And Dickinson, they're kind of the big shows.

00:26:02   Maybe I'll check in. I think you got some kids stuff launching as well. I'm going to poke around and watch some of that over the weekend, which I'm very excited about.

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00:27:53   So Jason, yesterday as we record this, out of the blue, out of nowhere, AirPods Pro appeared.

00:28:02   Yeah, well, I mean, the rumors, it's not quite out of nowhere, right? The rumors were out there for a long time.

00:28:08   In the sense of, you know, we spoke about this last week. Is there going to be an event, right? Like, they put out a press release.

00:28:14   They put out a press release. So when I say out of nowhere, I purely mean there was no event. There was, uh, there wasn't an embargo at that time.

00:28:23   Yeah, there are no, so there haven't been any reviews of it either.

00:28:25   There have been today, uh, there have been some YouTubers that have posted first impressions videos and unboxings, um, that seem to be embargoed.

00:28:34   So I'd assume they got their AirPods Pro in the last 24 hours. They made their videos. They all went up at the same time this morning.

00:28:41   So I'm going to put a video from MKBHD and from iJustine, both in the show notes.

00:28:47   MKBHD is mostly kind of first impressions and unboxing and iJustine also goes through the whole setup process so you can see how that all looks.

00:28:56   There's some interesting features in there. So they'll both be in the show notes if you haven't seen them.

00:29:01   But they feature a lot of things that we're expecting. Some stuff that we're expecting isn't there.

00:29:09   But by and large, this is the product that we have been expecting Apple to be making for kind of about a year, I think, since the first time we heard about what this product could have been.

00:29:18   It was in a Mark Gorman report quite some time ago, talking about AirPods of active noise cancellation and kind of water resistance.

00:29:26   And they're kind of two of the big things that this product has.

00:29:29   So the active noise cancellation also comes with something called transparency mode.

00:29:33   These are two different settings for how you can have additional sound or reduced sound with the AirPods.

00:29:42   You effectively have three states that the AirPods Pro can be in.

00:29:46   It can be everything off. So it's effectively just like a regular AirPod as we have them now, even though they go in the ears.

00:29:53   But it's not doing anything special. You can have noise cancellation, right?

00:29:57   It's using a bunch of microphones to measure the outside sound. And also this is wild.

00:30:03   There's a microphone inside so it can hear what your ear is hearing to try and listen to your ear more, like to try and reduce it even more.

00:30:10   Right. So that's the noise cancellation. Then there is transparency mode, which is something you can toggle on and off or leave on completely, which is effectively bringing in more sound from the outside.

00:30:22   So, you know, transparency mode could be really useful if you were, say, on a bicycle, right, in the street.

00:30:29   So you were having actual sound coming in as well as your podcast, maybe to balance that out.

00:30:34   I'm keen to see what that's like, the transparency mode just on all the time.

00:30:38   But another great usage of something like this is if you're using noise cancellation, you're on a plane, you want to hear the announcement, you quickly toggle transparency mode on.

00:30:48   So you get that coming in and then you go back to noise cancellation.

00:30:51   Yeah, I have used this because other, you know, headphones have all this.

00:30:54   This is not like my Sony noise canceling headphones have an active noise canceling mode, a not noise canceling mode and a transparency mode.

00:31:05   So, you know, it's all in the user interface. This may actually be a lot easier to control with this weird control scheme that they've got.

00:31:12   You're no longer, Myke, I think you'll be happy about this, right?

00:31:15   You're apparently no longer having to just punch a hole into your ear drum in order to play.

00:31:20   This is, without a shadow of a doubt, my favorite thing about this.

00:31:24   I've spoken time and time again how I hate the physical tapping of AirPods to try and get them to do something.

00:31:30   This has all been replaced now by something called the Force sensor, which is hilarious to me.

00:31:35   It's like that finally moved away from Force touch and now they've just brought it back again to the Force sensor.

00:31:41   It's like a little indentation in the stalk of the AirPod, which is now smaller by the way.

00:31:48   So the stalks are way smaller, like the AirPods themselves are overall physically much smaller than the previous AirPods, the regular AirPods.

00:31:57   But you squeeze it so you can tap it to pause, you can double tap it to skip, triple tap to go back.

00:32:03   It is, I can't find out right now how customizable they are.

00:32:07   I'm not sure about like if you can trigger one for the Ahoy! telephone.

00:32:12   I haven't got complete confirmation of that because it doesn't have like those double tapping or anything like that to trigger that anymore.

00:32:21   And the Apple website doesn't say that there is a pre-built one to do that.

00:32:25   You just use the Ahoy! telephone, you know, like the actual audible trigger word.

00:32:29   But you can also press and hold the Force sensor to toggle transparency mode on at any time.

00:32:37   So if you want to be able to bring noise in.

00:32:40   And you may even if you have active noise cancellation off, you still may want to do that because these, they go in the ears, right?

00:32:47   They have the silicone tips. So there's three sizes of silicone tips included and you can find the one that fits for you.

00:32:53   Apple actually have something called the Ear Fit Tip Test, where you put them in and you run it in the Settings app.

00:33:01   And it's using those microphones, right, the inside and outside microphones to make sure you have a good seal,

00:33:07   that there isn't too much sound leakage or whatever, which is a very Apple feature, right?

00:33:12   Like this little, this little extra little thing that they're doing to make the experience nice.

00:33:17   And the way the case is built, it looks like, you know, basically they leave enough space in the case for the largest ear tips.

00:33:24   Yes. Case is very different. It's now kind of more wide.

00:33:29   It's kind of like if you turn the current one on its side and just like stretched out a little bit, shrunk it down a little bit.

00:33:36   It's a very, very different shape. And as you say, they're doing that because they want kind of to be able to spread the, the, the kind of the AirPods further away from each other.

00:33:45   So you can allow room for different tips. This will definitely mean that you will see third party ones as well, um, because it would be easier to store them.

00:33:54   Yeah, but it won't fit, you know, that's the thing is like if you wanted to do custom ear tips, you could do it,

00:34:00   but you have to take them off every time you put them in the case because the case will only fit those sizes.

00:34:05   Or you could do them in like foam rather than silicon. Right. So there would still be similar sizes.

00:34:10   As long as they fit in the case.

00:34:12   Yeah. So I think we'll see some of that, but we'll have to wait and see.

00:34:15   Because I personally would have preferred foam to silicon. I've never, this is the thing, I'm very, I'm very conflicted about this, this product.

00:34:22   I have ordered them. They're arriving tomorrow. I previously have not enjoyed using noise cancellation at all, but Apple have said like they're doing some, uh,

00:34:32   they say I have an innovative vent system to equalize pressure, minimizing the discomfort common in other in-ear designs.

00:34:39   So I'm keen to see what that feels like because that is the problem I've had. Like the pressure makes me feel nauseous.

00:34:45   Like I don't like it. Um, it's like that vacuum feeling. Um, and the, the kind of the MKBHD saying that like it's more comfortable for him than other headphones like that.

00:34:55   The vacuum feeling isn't there as much. So I'm keen to see if that makes it better for me.

00:34:59   The other is that in-ear headphones have never really worked for me. They fall out. And, but I'm wondering, these are so light, right?

00:35:07   That maybe it won't be a problem for me. We'll wait and see. So I'm keen to see what that's going to be like.

00:35:12   Uh, they're IPX4 water resistant. I looked this up, Jason, cause I didn't know what that meant.

00:35:17   Um, and apparently IPX4 means resistant to water splashes from any direction.

00:35:22   These are not waterproof like an iPhone, right? Like you can't dunk these, right? Like you would an iPhone.

00:35:29   The idea is that sweat or rain or something isn't going to ruin them.

00:35:33   Yeah. And it's probably rain resistance is the, is the best thing here, uh, than anything else.

00:35:39   But don't like, I don't know, you can't swim in them anyway, but don't swim with them.

00:35:43   Don't swim with them, yeah.

00:35:44   Uh, you get up to four and a half hours of listening time of a single charge, up to five hours of active noise cancellation and transparency off.

00:35:51   The case gives 24 hours more battery. This is pretty much exactly the same as the current AirPods, which is great.

00:35:56   I would not have expected that they're smaller and you have the active noise cancellation, you still get four and a half hours.

00:36:02   It's pretty impressive. They obviously feature the H1 chip, the newest chip that's in AirPods and the new Beats Solo.

00:36:10   Um, the case is wireless charging, lightning charging. It comes with a lightning to USB-C cable.

00:36:17   Um, when I originally saw that, I thought it meant it charged by USB-C, but no, that's not how that works.

00:36:22   And, uh, that's kind of where we are. Like, have you, do you have interest in ordering this product? Like, have you?

00:36:29   I am interested in it. Well, no, I haven't because I haven't had the internet.

00:36:33   Um, I, my, uh, I should get a pair. I, I, I'm not going to go into great details, but yeah, I think I'm going to get a review pair of this this week.

00:36:42   Okay.

00:36:43   Um, we can check in next week. That's a, that's an email I got while standing outside Whole Foods.

00:36:47   Oh, nice.

00:36:48   Would you like to come down and see us and the new AirPods, uh, Pro? So great. I, I will, uh, I'll do that later this week so we can talk about it next week.

00:36:56   Yep.

00:36:57   And I am excited. I, I use custom, uh, I have been using custom, but also like the silicone, uh, silicone ear tips for a long time now.

00:37:05   Um, I, the AirPods actually fit my ears okay, but I prefer this. I prefer having a little more noise isolation. I treat the AirPods as sort of, um, the, you know, I can listen to them in certain circumstances, but like I can't take them.

00:37:20   I can't use them with a lawnmower, for example, because it's too loud. And, um, after spending so much time with custom fit ear, earphones, um, in my ears, people, people are like, oh, you know, are you comfortable walking around with AirPods?

00:37:34   Because you can't hear anything. It's like, are you kidding? I can hear everything because there's no seal. So how are these feel? I, I'm, I'm very interested in that.

00:37:44   I'm keen to see if they pass lawnmower test.

00:37:46   Yeah, well that's okay. Uh, it's a deal. We'll find out.

00:37:50   No colors. We were expecting colors. Those are the rumors and it made sense that they would do colors, but they're all white.

00:37:56   I feel bad about that only because I mean, I get it. White, white headphones is an Apple thing going back 20 years now or 18 years now. But, um, and I, I, and I get that at the same time, giving people other options is nice.

00:38:10   And I think people would like other colors even. Yeah. Even if it was just a couple other colors, I think this is just a running thing for us on this show, which is, Hey, Apple people love, uh, personalizing their tech.

00:38:22   And one way they do it is by choosing a color and it works for the iPhone. Let's do it everywhere.

00:38:30   Um, there was a, so this was part of what we were wondering if, uh, Apple would have press releases and we were thinking back to when did they do all those product announcements day after day?

00:38:43   It was like much earlier in the year, right? Yeah. I don't remember, but yeah, I think the initial initial rumors of this were earlier this year.

00:38:50   So it's clearly something that they really, um, maybe they had trouble with, but they wanted it out by the holidays obviously, cause this is a great product to have for the holidays.

00:39:00   But we were wondering if they would reduce release these products, these products along with other products this week, you know, maybe there's, there's, there's still things we want to see.

00:39:08   The Apple tag tag as it's now called, um, get me Rambo found in 13.2 because that came out as well. We'll talk about that in a bit. Uh, air tag is something that is referenced in 13.2.

00:39:20   So this is Apple's, uh, Bluetooth tracking device. So there's more smoke around that fire. We're expecting that maybe new MacBook pros and the kind of the wonder was, Oh, are they going to do this thing again?

00:39:32   Where they have like multiple product releases coming on at different times. Um, and, uh, that was in March, uh, according to David in the chat room that Apple did this before where they had, uh, shots over the shoulder of Tim being posted to Twitter. Right.

00:39:47   It'd have like different products and stuff that just kept happening. He had like an iPad, then he was drawing things on the iPad and, uh, Tim Cook's Twitter avatar changed yesterday to him wearing AirPods Pro.

00:39:57   That just did that silently. So I was like, Oh, is this going to be a trend? But we're here on Tuesday. There have been nothing else announced tomorrow. We have earnings. So it seems unlikely Friday is Apple TV plus. So maybe Thursday for other stuff.

00:40:12   Uh, there is a new version of Catalina, which has just come out today. 10.15.1 as it stands right now, there isn't a, any, uh, I haven't seen anything before we recorded about any more smoke around the MacBook profile, but we have AirPods Pro now.

00:40:29   So there, as Jason knows, they're going to be out before the holidays. We can follow up next week, uh, about what we think about those, but there was also a bunch of software that came out this week. It'll also point revisions to Apple software.

00:40:43   And we'll talk about that in a second. But before we do, let's thank our second sponsor, which is Kensington. So Kensington, they're the people who make universal docking stations designed to increase productivity.

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00:41:47   iOS 13.2, Jason. It is here.

00:41:52   Oh, did that come out?

00:41:53   That came out.

00:41:54   I had the beta on a phone because I tried out Deep Fusion, but I haven't been in any situation to update my iPhone.

00:42:03   So there's been a bunch of software updates and all these software updates were needed to support the AirPods Pro.

00:42:10   So 10.15.1 is out, 13.2 is out, Apple Watch 6.1 is out.

00:42:16   There it is. I'm going to install this on my phone right now.

00:42:19   Great. Go for it. Let me run through. This includes the new emoji, so they're all available.

00:42:25   Deep Fusion. Jason, I've been trying to take some photos. I was taking some photos with a...

00:42:30   Did you put on your sweater?

00:42:31   I did. I put on a sweater, but it didn't have an intricate pattern. So that was useless.

00:42:38   But I was trying, I was taking photos of a woven blanket that we have with a 13.2 device and a 13.1 device.

00:42:45   I don't know if anything's happening.

00:42:48   That was my experience when I had a 13.2 and a 13.1, both iPhone 11 Pros, and taking photos simultaneously,

00:42:56   and then looking at them and saying, "Did it work? Did it fire?"

00:42:59   I can't tell.

00:43:00   I couldn't even tell if it was triggered or not because there's no indicator.

00:43:06   So this is kind of just one of those things where I'm like, "I will trust that in some situations,

00:43:11   I am now getting a better photo, but I'm going to stop looking for it."

00:43:17   Along with 13.2, with camera stuff, you can change video settings in the camera app, right?

00:43:22   So if you want to change from 30 to 60 frames a second, you can do that.

00:43:27   And it also brought some features of iOS 13 that had yet kind of not arrived.

00:43:34   Announce messages for AirPods.

00:43:36   So this is like you get a message when you re-airpods.

00:43:38   It can let you know.

00:43:40   And also the AirPods audio sharing came with iOS 13.2.

00:43:45   So this is where you can use multiple pairs of AirPods to listen to things on one device.

00:43:49   HomeKit secure video and HomeKit routers.

00:43:53   That is now in 13.2 and in Catalina.

00:43:57   I am keen to see what products become available for this.

00:44:01   Yeah, here's one of these things I've been meaning to mention.

00:44:04   It is that I, as somebody who pays a lot of money for iCloud storage for photos,

00:44:09   I really like the HomeKit secure video announcement.

00:44:14   But that's all we heard about it.

00:44:18   I'm ready to buy some home cameras that use HomeKit secure video.

00:44:24   But where are they?

00:44:27   This is the idea that rather than streaming to a camera maker,

00:44:31   all your video from your house into your camera maker's cloud service

00:44:36   that you're getting for free or paying them extra for or whatever,

00:44:39   if you're an iCloud user, you just use Apple.

00:44:41   And Apple is the one that stores that video.

00:44:44   If you trust Apple and not the makers of various video cameras, it's a great idea.

00:44:50   But where is it?

00:44:53   Yeah, I have not yet found any product that is available to buy right now that does this.

00:45:03   Yeah, I mean, I don't think they exist.

00:45:05   No, and it's the same as the routers as well.

00:45:08   So I know that there are companies, I know Eero, I think Netgear were on the slide,

00:45:14   but is it new products? Is it current products?

00:45:17   And what will this even do?

00:45:19   So the support is there, and I think it's going to be interesting to keep an eye on what becomes available there.

00:45:26   The Siri privacy settings stuff, right?

00:45:29   So the audio sharing. I have denied this on all my devices.

00:45:32   Good. Excellent.

00:45:34   I'm just angry about it.

00:45:36   Shortcuts can be triggered on HomePod and Apple Watch and stuff like that.

00:45:40   Apple Watch 6.1 brings WatchOS 6 to Series 1 and 2, so that's available now.

00:45:45   So if you have an older watch, you can now get WatchOS 6.

00:45:48   Also, there have been people that are on the beta saying that this improves battery life for some people.

00:45:54   So we'll see about that.

00:45:56   And I want to talk about the HomePod update.

00:45:58   So there was the...

00:46:00   Oh, boy, everything.

00:46:02   I look forward to my devices having power so that they can get these updates.

00:46:06   Well, you might not get the HomePod update, because there's reports that it's been pulled by Apple now.

00:46:11   Oh.

00:46:12   Because some HomePods were getting bricked during this process.

00:46:16   And I had a problem.

00:46:18   I had a very frustrating evening last night to trying to get multiple voice support to work.

00:46:25   So this is the idea that multiple people in a home, if they're in an Apple home,

00:46:31   so they're both multiple people in one home, can use personal requests independently on HomePod.

00:46:39   Yeah, I'm excited for this feature.

00:46:41   I can say, "Add something to my reminders," and it will put it into mine.

00:46:45   Adina could say, "Add something to my reminders," it will put it into hers.

00:46:48   So I was like, "I want to try this out."

00:46:50   This was one of the most painful experiences I've had with an Apple product in years.

00:46:54   So I want to talk through how this went.

00:46:56   So I opened up the Home app.

00:46:58   It said, "Do you want to transfer your Siri profile to the HomePod

00:47:02   and use personal requests for multiple voice?"

00:47:04   I was like, "Great, yeah, let's go for it."

00:47:06   So I did that, turned it all on, and to Adina's phone, did the same.

00:47:10   So then I was like, "Oh, you know, ahoy, telephone, add milk to my reminders."

00:47:14   Done.

00:47:15   It added it to my reminders.

00:47:16   Perfect.

00:47:18   So I said to Adina, "Let's try it for you.

00:47:20   So ahoy, telephone, add milk to my reminders."

00:47:24   It sat for a second and said, "Who is this?"

00:47:27   Adina and me burst out laughing because it was like new phone, who dis type thing.

00:47:33   Because it said it so strange, it was like, "Who is this?"

00:47:36   And then when we stopped laughing, she said, "Adina, did nothing."

00:47:41   Then it went, "Who is this?"

00:47:43   Again, said, "Adina, nothing."

00:47:45   I was like, "Halt, who goes there?"

00:47:47   It was very strange. That was kind of what it was like.

00:47:49   So then we were like, "All right, let's try it again."

00:47:53   So like, "Ahoy, telephone, add milk to my reminders."

00:47:56   Nothing.

00:47:57   The HomePod said nothing.

00:47:59   Didn't confirm.

00:48:00   Nothing.

00:48:02   We kept trying this, and then it wasn't even, so when Adina would speak, it wouldn't,

00:48:07   if she asked for the weather, it just ignored her.

00:48:09   The HomePod would just then not respond to any requests of hers,

00:48:12   but would continue to respond to requests of mine.

00:48:15   I went into Home, toggled everything on and off,

00:48:19   we went through the whole thing again, and we got after like multiple tries,

00:48:23   it once again said, "Who is this?"

00:48:25   She said, "Adina, nothing."

00:48:28   "Who is this?"

00:48:30   I said, "Adina, nothing."

00:48:32   Went through this whole thing again, turning off and on, off and on.

00:48:37   So like, if you have a slightly unrecognisable name,

00:48:40   can it not work out who you are?

00:48:43   Like I didn't understand what was going on,

00:48:45   and then in this state, Siri would not work with any of her devices,

00:48:49   because when she would say something, her phone would pick it up,

00:48:52   pass it off to the HomePod,

00:48:54   and the HomePod would refuse to take any requests from her.

00:48:57   It would not give anything.

00:48:59   It wasn't just a personal request thing.

00:49:01   She couldn't turn on lights, she couldn't ask for the weather,

00:49:04   every time she spoke, the HomePod just went off.

00:49:07   After lots of toggling,

00:49:10   I ended up having Adina redo the whole, oh, hi telephone,

00:49:15   thing on her iPhone,

00:49:18   like reset that whole thing up,

00:49:20   to try and retrain her voice to her phone,

00:49:22   in the hopes that it would then push something over to the HomePod.

00:49:25   That still didn't work, so she would say something and it would ignore her.

00:49:28   Then I thought, well, let me try something else.

00:49:30   So I went and held down on the HomePod,

00:49:33   you know, like where you can press and hold, rather than use the trigger word?

00:49:36   That's how I've been using my HomePod for the last couple of months.

00:49:39   There you go. And then for some reason, this then worked.

00:49:42   So then when she said, "Who is this?"

00:49:44   When it said, "Who is this?" she said it was Adina.

00:49:46   For some reason, this made it work.

00:49:48   Now it works.

00:49:50   So if she says to us, put something to remind us, it will do that.

00:49:53   But this process probably took me about half an hour.

00:49:56   And I don't know exactly what it is that I did that I got to make it work.

00:50:02   But it was absolutely infuriating.

00:50:05   And I was talking to some friends about this,

00:50:07   somebody else tried to do it, went into the exact same process.

00:50:10   So this might be another reason why the HomePod got pulled.

00:50:13   But this feature is not ready.

00:50:16   And I don't know why they put it out there.

00:50:18   Because it just did not work.

00:50:21   It completely failed.

00:50:24   And the idea that during this process, if it doesn't recognize a voice,

00:50:28   it then just ignores that voice is madness.

00:50:32   It was just really, really just very frustrating.

00:50:35   It's like you got caught in a strange bureaucracy.

00:50:39   Except Siri is the bureaucrat.

00:50:42   That seems to be what happened.

00:50:44   It's like, "I'm sorry, you don't have the right form.

00:50:45   Is this the right form? I'm sorry. Who is this?"

00:50:47   "Is this the right form?"

00:50:49   "But how do I get out of this thing?"

00:50:51   And the answer is, "Siri can't help you there."

00:50:53   This is just one of those things where, because I'm a nerd,

00:50:56   I know that there are certain steps of troubleshooting to go through.

00:50:59   Because I know how these products work, I can try different things.

00:51:04   If you don't know that maybe some way to trick Siri

00:51:09   without using the trigger word is to hold down on the HomePod

00:51:13   and have it force the request,

00:51:16   your HomePod and then just Siri in general is rendered useless

00:51:22   because now all your devices are passing over to the HomePod

00:51:24   and the HomePod refuses to listen to you.

00:51:26   So that was really frustrating, but now we got it to work.

00:51:29   It's a great feature.

00:51:30   Handoff of audio is really nice.

00:51:32   This is where you can be listening to any audio

00:51:34   and you go up to the HomePod

00:51:36   and you kind of hold your phone onto the HomePod

00:51:38   like you're scanning an NFC sticker and then using AirPlay,

00:51:41   it transfers it over with a little notification.

00:51:43   I wonder if it actually has a little NFC thing in it.

00:51:47   It really feels like that.

00:51:49   Because if I wasn't putting it super close to it, it wasn't working.

00:51:52   So I don't know how exactly it's doing it,

00:51:55   but it really did feel like it was an NFC-based thing.

00:51:58   So I'd be keen to know if anyone actually knows the answer to that.

00:52:01   And also the HomePod now does, quote,

00:52:04   "Relaxing high-quality soundtracks of ambient sounds."

00:52:06   So you can ask it to play you waterfall noises or rainforest sounds

00:52:09   and stuff like that.

00:52:11   So that's all the software updates.

00:52:14   The HomePod stuff, great if it works for you.

00:52:19   Okay, well, I...

00:52:21   But it's gotten pulled.

00:52:23   As far as I can tell, the HomePod update has been pulled, yes.

00:52:27   Huh.

00:52:29   For maybe this and other issues.

00:52:33   So yeah, there's some reports today.

00:52:35   Apple is having a heck of a fall, aren't they?

00:52:37   Yeah.

00:52:38   So Apple, they've got a support document

00:52:42   that there is a potential issue with the HomePod,

00:52:48   and it being bricked, so they've pulled the software update.

00:52:51   They just...

00:52:54   Because now it feels like the HomePod update got rushed out

00:52:57   because of the AirPods Pro, right?

00:53:01   To support all of that.

00:53:03   So all you've done is proven your problem again,

00:53:06   that you pushed out a software update that wasn't ready

00:53:09   to support hardware that you had to get out for whatever reason.

00:53:13   It's the same as the iPhone.

00:53:15   I don't know what's going on over there.

00:53:17   It's been a bad year.

00:53:18   It's been a tough few months for them.

00:53:21   Apple, apparently, according to Mark Gurman,

00:53:24   is hiring a new team to work on smart home software and hardware.

00:53:29   Apparently, Apple is looking to revamp HomeKit

00:53:32   to encourage more third-party adoption

00:53:34   and may include them building more smart home products

00:53:38   of their own again.

00:53:40   I don't know what to think about this.

00:53:44   I feel like we did a show earlier this year

00:53:51   based on some rumor, because they hired somebody, right?

00:53:55   Didn't they hire a guy to be in charge of this?

00:53:58   Yes, they did.

00:53:59   They hired...

00:54:01   I have to sign into Bloomberg to now read this article.

00:54:05   RIP.

00:54:06   Who are you? It's us.

00:54:08   Who are you? Who is this?

00:54:10   So I don't know whether the story is that...

00:54:12   Is it that guy is hiring a team?

00:54:15   Did that not work out?

00:54:16   So we had a conversation about this,

00:54:18   about how Apple, obviously, with things like changing their stance

00:54:21   on allowing HomeKit based on software

00:54:25   rather than having to have the HomeKit security chip in it,

00:54:29   that Apple has been loosening its stance on this,

00:54:33   and we were talking in that episode,

00:54:35   whenever it was, earlier this year,

00:54:37   about how I like this idea, I think,

00:54:41   just because I think that Apple needs to be more involved

00:54:46   to make HomeKit more successful,

00:54:48   and that I buy a bunch of HomeKit stuff,

00:54:50   and I think it's good,

00:54:52   and I think that it adds somewhat to the ecosystem,

00:54:55   but there's also just this feeling

00:54:57   that the competitors are focused on this

00:54:59   on a level that Apple just isn't.

00:55:02   So maybe this is the fallout.

00:55:04   So I've signed in now.

00:55:06   Okay, good. Congratulations.

00:55:07   It was Andreas Gao, who ran a company called Silk Labs,

00:55:10   and Apple acquired them in 2018,

00:55:13   and they are an AI company,

00:55:15   and Andreas is running this team

00:55:18   and reporting to Craig Federighi,

00:55:23   and then they're looking to do, definitely,

00:55:26   revamping of software

00:55:28   and maybe looking at hardware as well.

00:55:31   Yeah. I mean, hey, might I suggest a Wi-Fi router?

00:55:35   That'd be nice, right?

00:55:36   Like, Google just did the update to their Wi-Fi system,

00:55:39   where they've made each one of them a little Nest Home Mini,

00:55:43   which is a very clever idea, I think.

00:55:45   Right. I mean, that is the argument

00:55:47   that I think people had when the HomePod came out,

00:55:49   which is, why is this not a Wi-Fi distribution device?

00:55:51   And you assume now that Amazon owns Eero,

00:55:54   they surely will put Echo into Eero.

00:55:58   Yeah, Echo -- Ooh. Put Echo into Eero.

00:56:01   Eke-ero. That's weird.

00:56:02   Yeah, I figure, like, that's the next step of this, right,

00:56:05   is that all of your smart home devices

00:56:07   ought to be making their own mesh network

00:56:09   and relaying your Wi-Fi.

00:56:11   I think it's a good idea, right?

00:56:12   Like, if I'm already putting this little thing around the house,

00:56:15   why not also make it my smart assistant, too?

00:56:17   I just think it's a smart idea.

00:56:19   Having taken my office apart

00:56:20   and put it back together over the weekend,

00:56:22   the number of redundant,

00:56:24   or at least potentially redundant, little plastic boxes,

00:56:28   it's like I have, like, four Eero plastic boxes.

00:56:32   I have a Hue plastic box.

00:56:34   I have a Lutron plastic box.

00:56:36   I have two Apple TVs.

00:56:38   I have so many of these devices that are redundant

00:56:41   for various smart home things or for Wi-Fi,

00:56:44   and I think to myself, if my Apple TV and my --

00:56:50   I have two of those, and I have two HomePods.

00:56:53   Like, I could cover most of my house with those

00:56:56   if they also did Wi-Fi and talked to each other,

00:56:59   and it just -- that's got to be a goal, right,

00:57:02   is to make this stuff a little more unified,

00:57:06   and if your Apple, like -- Apple's abdication of Wi-Fi,

00:57:10   I understand it from the perspective of the, like,

00:57:12   "Do we want to make a router

00:57:14   and compete with the Linksyses of the world?"

00:57:16   But the answer is no.

00:57:17   You want to compete with the Eros of the world,

00:57:19   which Amazon now owns, by the way, your competitor.

00:57:22   You want to create a system of easy Wi-Fi.

00:57:26   -Right, but do they, though?

00:57:28   -Well, I mean, I think you look at this, and you say you do,

00:57:30   because if you want to have a home network,

00:57:33   not just for your smart home devices

00:57:35   but for your iPhones and iPads and Macs,

00:57:39   and you want to spread devices throughout the house,

00:57:41   there's a real argument to be made

00:57:43   that Apple already has those devices

00:57:46   embedded in a lot of houses,

00:57:48   and they don't do enough, and that this would be a way,

00:57:51   instead of having Amazon suddenly be the ones who rush in

00:57:54   to provide your Wi-Fi for a house or Google,

00:57:58   then have it be Apple.

00:58:00   -So, but, like, this is going back

00:58:01   to what we were talking about earlier, right?

00:58:03   Like, they've got HomeKit for routers.

00:58:06   -It's true.

00:58:07   -And is that not maybe what they want to do?

00:58:10   I mean, I don't know.

00:58:11   Like, I was talking to Adina about this earlier on.

00:58:13   Like, I mean, I'm intrigued to see what the HomeKit for routers

00:58:16   and the HomeKit security camera stuff does

00:58:18   because I would like to include

00:58:21   both of those product types into HomeKit, right?

00:58:24   Like, we have a Canary, and our router,

00:58:28   we have -- doesn't have any kind of smart stuff,

00:58:32   and I want to be able to integrate all of that

00:58:34   into one system.

00:58:36   And so I would like to see Apple trying more aggressively

00:58:42   to make companies want to put their products

00:58:44   into HomeKit, right?

00:58:46   Because I would like to be able to move to a future

00:58:50   where all of my smart home devices are integrated via one system,

00:58:54   and I don't need all these boxes and bridges

00:58:56   and all that nonsense to make it all work

00:58:59   because it makes things tiring and frustrating, ultimately, right?

00:59:03   And you want to adopt this stuff less, I think, because of that.

00:59:07   Like, I just saw -- I'm pretty excited about this --

00:59:09   Eero launched in the U.K. today.

00:59:12   So -- and then I'm hoping that maybe if I --

00:59:15   I want to see, like, how does that stuff work

00:59:18   with the HomeKit stuff and all that.

00:59:20   Like, I'm really intrigued about it.

00:59:22   Right? Right? And I could view it --

00:59:24   I could view the HomeKit stuff

00:59:26   that Apple's rolling out for routers

00:59:29   as Apple abdicating responsibility

00:59:33   and saying, "We'll just work with router manufacturers

00:59:36   who don't want to be swallowed by Google or Amazon."

00:59:39   I could also view it as the start of a program

00:59:42   that ultimately includes Apple playing in that game,

00:59:46   but it's -- basically, it's your Apple ecosystem compatibility thing

00:59:50   that they're allowing routers to support.

00:59:54   I don't know. The other thing about this is

00:59:57   we live in a funny world

00:59:59   where all of these companies want to do everything.

01:00:06   And was it on ATP, I think, maybe last week?

01:00:09   -Yeah, that was one of the topics.

01:00:11   -Which fortunately they recorded early before my power went out.

01:00:15   The ATP -- yeah, everybody wants to do everything.

01:00:19   And it is -- you know, these big tech companies

01:00:22   have their resources, and they feel like,

01:00:24   "Well, if we don't go into this area, our competitors will,

01:00:26   and so we have to, too."

01:00:28   And so you see so many products that are being done

01:00:30   by Google and Microsoft and Facebook and Apple,

01:00:34   and the list goes on and Amazon, and you -- it's competition,

01:00:41   but it's also they feel they can't let it go

01:00:44   because it's a crack in the wall

01:00:46   that they're building for their ecosystem.

01:00:48   And I get it. I really do get it.

01:00:53   One of the problems is, can you do it well?

01:00:57   And if you're Apple and part of your brand is supposed to be,

01:01:01   "These are good products, and they just work,"

01:01:07   doesn't it feel like Apple's already stretched way too thin

01:01:10   to take on a whole home networking thing?

01:01:12   Like, they've got the money,

01:01:13   and maybe they can hire the people to do it.

01:01:15   But I do get a larger sense that, like, Apple has --

01:01:19   Apple culturally, at least, up to now,

01:01:21   has proven to be a company that has had a hard time scaling

01:01:26   in a lot of ways across a product line.

01:01:28   -And that is why I would be more keen to see them

01:01:33   making HomeKit stuff than new airport products.

01:01:40   I would prefer to see them building a system

01:01:43   to allow other companies to --

01:01:46   that all they want to do is make that stuff,

01:01:48   to make that stuff. -Yeah.

01:01:50   -And integrate with all of my iOS devices.

01:01:53   -It could also be somewhere in between,

01:01:55   where Apple comes up with a spec for HomeKit networking

01:01:58   or something that is using something off the shelf

01:02:01   or something they invent themselves or whatever,

01:02:04   that, you know, an Apple TV or a HomePod --

01:02:08   Like, an Apple TV has got an Ethernet connection on the back.

01:02:10   So, like, an Apple TV could be a hub of that.

01:02:13   But if you build it, you know,

01:02:15   and sell one of these other HomeKit-enabled devices,

01:02:17   it can also be a mesh relay

01:02:20   for Apple's Wi-Fi network in people's houses.

01:02:23   And Apple doesn't necessarily have to make that device

01:02:26   if they get the, you know,

01:02:28   the third parties to build it for them.

01:02:30   It's possible. It's interesting.

01:02:32   But this is, you know, very much like Apple

01:02:34   realizing that they couldn't just say,

01:02:36   "Well, you want to be in our ecosystem.

01:02:38   Here are the rules. Go for it."

01:02:40   Because the ecosystem is not as broad

01:02:43   as Apple would like it to be.

01:02:45   I would argue that the best stuff is probably there,

01:02:48   but -- 'cause people say there are, like,

01:02:51   HomeKit devices and 400 Alexa -- works with Alexa devices.

01:02:54   I would wager that most of those

01:02:56   that are not on Apple's platform but are on Alexa

01:02:59   are probably not very good.

01:03:01   They're probably a bunch of the same chipset.

01:03:03   -Oh, and they probably also work with skills,

01:03:05   which suck most of the time.

01:03:07   -And skills are no good, right? -Yeah.

01:03:09   -So, you know, there are different ways to play this,

01:03:11   but I do think it's interesting that Apple has realized

01:03:14   over the course of several years now

01:03:16   that they really do need to revamp this.

01:03:18   And it would be fascinating if they end up --

01:03:20   You know, what do they partner with other companies about?

01:03:23   What do they decide they just have to make it themselves?

01:03:27   -We'll find out, but it looks like they might be doing something.

01:03:29   But this could also be, like, the car product project

01:03:32   and just disappear. -And go nowhere.

01:03:34   Yeah, could be.

01:03:35   -All right, let's do some #AskUpgrade

01:03:37   before we round out today's episode.

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01:05:34   It is time for #AskUpgrade.

01:05:38   Were the lasers affected by the power outage, Jason?

01:05:40   -There's no power for the lasers, Myke.

01:05:42   -Oh, what a shame. What a shame.

01:05:44   You know, Jason, I was having a thought the other day.

01:05:46   This is -- We're going on a tangent.

01:05:48   I was thinking about doing, like,

01:05:49   I was thinking about upgrade live shows and stuff.

01:05:51   One day, we need to get an actual laser system.

01:05:54   -Oh, my God. -For a live show?

01:05:56   -We do. Yeah, and then we do #AskUpgrade in the laser fire.

01:05:59   -Mm-hmm. Wouldn't that be great?

01:06:02   -That would be amazing.

01:06:04   -But we'd need a laser system that would also make noise.

01:06:07   So -- 'Cause our lasers are very loud.

01:06:10   -They are. They are. Yeah, we could do that.

01:06:13   I'm sure we could do that.

01:06:14   -First question comes from Johan this week.

01:06:16   Thank you very much.

01:06:17   Oh, they got on the generator. They're on the generator.

01:06:20   -Yeah. Mm-hmm.

01:06:21   -Could you survive on an iPhone 11, not an iPhone 11 Pro?

01:06:24   Survive, yes. And I think it would be fine.

01:06:27   -Sure. -I mean, I would miss

01:06:28   the telephoto lens camera, but --

01:06:29   -I would miss the telephoto lens,

01:06:31   and I don't want a phone that big, honestly.

01:06:33   -Oh, yes. -I prefer the smaller size.

01:06:35   -'Cause it's bigger, isn't it,

01:06:36   than the small-size iPhone 11 Pro?

01:06:39   -Yeah. -But I think, like, you know,

01:06:41   especially this year, like, that product is, like, wonderful.

01:06:45   Right? Like, I would be more than happy, I think,

01:06:47   on an iPhone 11. -I agree. I agree.

01:06:49   I mean, I bought the Pro, but I would be fine with the 11.

01:06:52   I would be sad at the Zoom thing.

01:06:54   -I want three cameras. I want the more battery,

01:06:56   and I want the bigger screen, but I would think

01:06:59   that I could more than happily survive

01:07:01   on just a regular iPhone 11.

01:07:04   -For sure. -Elly wants to know,

01:07:06   "Does the TV app in Catalina support home videos

01:07:10   the way that iTunes does?"

01:07:12   Do you know the answer to this, Jason?

01:07:15   -I don't think so.

01:07:18   -So there's -- 'Cause in iTunes,

01:07:20   you could have your own movies, right, which could be,

01:07:23   of course, home videos legally found in some places.

01:07:26   -Yeah. -You could put them in.

01:07:28   So you could, like, load your own videos into iTunes.

01:07:31   And then one of the reasons you would do that

01:07:33   is then to put them onto an iOS device, as well.

01:07:36   -I think it doesn't.

01:07:39   In fact, my recollection in writing my photos book,

01:07:42   there's actually a "send to" -- I think it's "send" --

01:07:46   If you make a video to export it,

01:07:48   one of your options is to send it to the music app,

01:07:50   which is hilarious, 'cause I think they just search

01:07:53   and replaced for iTunes.

01:07:55   And then it opens it in the music app, except nothing opens,

01:07:57   because the music app doesn't do videos anymore.

01:07:59   -Great, great. -Like, what just happened there?

01:08:02   So I don't know if the TV app in Catalina --

01:08:05   It's possible, but, um, hmm, I haven't checked that.

01:08:10   I feel like that is a feature that is just gonna disappear.

01:08:14   -'Cause one of -- As I said, one of the things you'd have for that

01:08:16   is so you could put them onto iOS devices,

01:08:18   but you can probably do that in Finder now.

01:08:20   -Yeah, you can just sync them. Sync them over, yeah.

01:08:21   -So I bet it's not there.

01:08:22   I mean, I can't look, 'cause I'm on Mojave,

01:08:24   but, like, my expectation is that's gone.

01:08:27   Todd asks, "Is there a benefit

01:08:29   to using the iPhone camera's digital zoom

01:08:32   versus cropping a photo?"

01:08:34   -I don't think there is, right?

01:08:36   You can just take a photo and crop it.

01:08:38   -I don't think there is, either.

01:08:39   -Because you're gonna -- You're always losing fidelity.

01:08:42   I mean...

01:08:43   -Yeah, that's what a digital zoom is.

01:08:45   It's literally you're just cropping around the edges.

01:08:47   And I don't know if they're doing things

01:08:49   to try and refine the digitally zoomed image

01:08:51   to make it look higher quality. It's possible.

01:08:53   -I mean, like, I know Google have an actual feature for this,

01:08:56   right? So, like... -Of course they do.

01:08:58   -If you're -- You know, they call, like, Super Zoom

01:09:00   or whatever, like, so that is, like, a thing.

01:09:02   Apple doesn't have, like, a thing, right?

01:09:04   They don't talk about this on stage.

01:09:06   Like, "Oh, and if you zoom in, we use all this machine learning."

01:09:08   I never zoom more than the 2x lens.

01:09:11   If I ever want to -- I would just crop an image, right?

01:09:14   That's what I do. I crop an image that I've taken

01:09:16   to see if I want to zoom in more.

01:09:18   I was talking about VSCO last week,

01:09:21   and Tony has written in to ask,

01:09:23   "What are my favorite VSCO filters?"

01:09:25   So I thought -- People ask me this quite a lot,

01:09:27   so I will now share it here,

01:09:29   and then for the future, I can say,

01:09:31   "Listen to episode 256 of Upgrade,"

01:09:34   in the Ask Upgrade section, and you will find out that

01:09:37   I like the C and A filters mostly.

01:09:40   They're chromatic and analog.

01:09:42   That's what they stand for.

01:09:44   Primarily, the filters I use are --

01:09:46   Get a pen and paper -- A1, A2, A8, A10,

01:09:50   C3, C6, C7, and C9.

01:09:52   They're my favorites.

01:09:54   They're the ones I use most, but I never just use

01:09:56   what a filter gives me.

01:09:58   I always go in and tweak the saturation.

01:10:00   I tweak colors, sharpness, vignette, grain,

01:10:04   all that kind of stuff, so I will always adjust from those.

01:10:07   So there you go. That is what I use.

01:10:10   Jim asks, "Is there a way to trick photos on Catalina

01:10:14   into scanning for faces more aggressively?

01:10:17   I've left it running in the background for almost two weeks,

01:10:20   and it only seems to make progress very intermittently."

01:10:23   Do you know, Jason? -Nope.

01:10:24   -Really? -There is no way to do this.

01:10:25   You just have to.

01:10:27   I think the best thing you can do is go in

01:10:31   and tag your stuff aggressively, is to say,

01:10:38   go into photos that have people in them and scroll up

01:10:41   and find the faces and tap on them,

01:10:44   or, you know, if you're on the Mac,

01:10:47   they just show up when you go to a single view.

01:10:49   It puts little labels on all the faces.

01:10:51   And start naming people and saying, "This is this person."

01:10:54   You go into the photos or the people album in photos on,

01:10:59   again, iOS or Mac, and go into individual people,

01:11:03   and it'll often ask you, you know,

01:11:06   "Can you verify some more faces?"

01:11:09   You can actually scroll down

01:11:10   and force some more manual verification of faces

01:11:13   if there's more that are possible.

01:11:15   The more you feed that engine, I think the better it does

01:11:17   and the more stuff aggregates,

01:11:19   but you do kind of just have to wait,

01:11:21   and you're kind of at the mercy of the software

01:11:25   to run in the background and do it.

01:11:27   I will say, on the Mac, you got to quit the app.

01:11:29   You can't leave it open.

01:11:30   You quit it, and you let your Mac run.

01:11:32   And if you don't usually let your Mac run overnight

01:11:36   or you have it go to sleep, don't do that.

01:11:38   Have it stay awake, and that's all you can really do.

01:11:42   And then beyond that, it's kind of a mystery what happens.

01:11:48   Rajeev asks, "What is the advantage or point

01:11:51   of using profiles in tvOS 13?"

01:11:54   So this is where you can have multiple users support, right?

01:11:56   So you can have multiple people on a TV.

01:11:58   As far as I'm aware, as apparently the tvOS guy,

01:12:02   which is a connected joke,

01:12:04   you have access to your own purchase content,

01:12:06   and the TV app is personalized to your preferences,

01:12:09   so it's not mixing with anybody else's.

01:12:11   So if you like a certain type of TV show,

01:12:13   but somebody else in your house doesn't,

01:12:15   they're not going to get that recommended in Up Next,

01:12:17   nor are they going to even see it suggested

01:12:19   as complete this show, right?

01:12:20   So if you're watching TV shows in an app

01:12:24   that supports the TV app and it's in your Up Next,

01:12:27   it will maybe then suggest, "Oh, hey, maybe you want to watch this,

01:12:29   maybe you want to watch that."

01:12:31   So it's not all going to get mixed up.

01:12:32   You can have it separated.

01:12:34   We just have the one thing here

01:12:36   because me and Adina watch TV together.

01:12:39   We're watching stuff on the TV, so we don't need it split apart.

01:12:43   I think apps can support the API maybe?

01:12:46   No one's doing it, though.

01:12:48   But no one's doing it because no one wants to share that information.

01:12:51   So this would be, for example, if Netflix supported it,

01:12:54   you wouldn't need to choose, "Hey, who's watching it, Netflix?"

01:12:57   It would know, but it doesn't seem like there is any app using that

01:13:02   or any of the major apps that need to be using it right now.

01:13:05   Last question from Bart today.

01:13:08   "When you use Luna Display of a Mac Mini in headless mode..."

01:13:12   So this is no monitor, just using Luna Display,

01:13:14   as I do with my iPad.

01:13:15   "Can you use any of the Mac gestures like Mission Control?

01:13:18   Can you use Command Tab in some fashion,

01:13:20   or does that just control the iPad app switching?"

01:13:22   So, yes, if you open Luna Display and press Command Tab,

01:13:26   you will cycle to the next app on your iOS device.

01:13:29   So what I did was map --

01:13:31   because you can change keyboard shortcuts on the Mac --

01:13:34   I remapped them all.

01:13:35   So when I'm using Luna Display on my Mac Mini,

01:13:39   I've changed them all to Control.

01:13:41   So Control Tab does the Mac's switching.

01:13:45   Control Space does spotlight searching.

01:13:48   So you can just remap them.

01:13:50   So I just remapped them all to Control.

01:13:51   So that's how that works, because that does nothing on iOS.

01:13:56   So top tip for you there.

01:13:58   Good tip. I love it.

01:14:00   All right, if you would like to send in a question

01:14:02   for a future episode,

01:14:03   just send out a tweet with the hashtag #AskUpgrade,

01:14:06   or if you want to hear us not talk about weather,

01:14:08   as we did today, a tweet with the hashtag #SNELtalk,

01:14:12   and we'll bring that in.

01:14:14   But that was a much-needed

01:14:16   and interesting weather update today from Jason.

01:14:20   Mm-hmm.

01:14:21   Thanks to our sponsors this week,

01:14:23   the fine folk at Linode, Kensington, and TextExpander.

01:14:26   If you want to find Jason, he's online at @jsnell

01:14:29   and at sixcolors.com.

01:14:30   Now, you mentioned about the Apple earnings,

01:14:34   and you said you would say

01:14:36   that you're going to be changing your coverage.

01:14:37   So what can people expect

01:14:38   on "Six Colors" this week for Apple earnings?

01:14:41   It's a mystery to me, too.

01:14:43   I'll do some charts.

01:14:44   I will probably not do a full --

01:14:45   The charts will exist.

01:14:46   I will do some charts.

01:14:47   They may not happen immediately,

01:14:49   and I will probably not do a transcript of "This is Tim,"

01:14:54   because I won't have the wherewithal to do that.

01:14:57   And Dan Morin will do some coverage on Twitter

01:15:00   at @sixcolorsevent,

01:15:01   which is our live tweeting event account.

01:15:06   So, yeah, you can follow along there if you want to.

01:15:10   But we will be talking about that.

01:15:12   If anything else happens this week,

01:15:14   maybe there'll be some Mac news.

01:15:16   Who knows?

01:15:17   We'll talk about that next week,

01:15:18   along with our first impressions of the Apple TV+ shows.

01:15:23   Big episode on deck for next week.

01:15:25   I'm very excited.

01:15:26   Yeah, I hope I have power for it.

01:15:28   Let's hope so, shall we?

01:15:30   If you ever wonder, "Hey, there's no upgrade today,"

01:15:33   do you know how you can find out

01:15:35   when there's gonna be an upgrade?

01:15:37   You can follow --

01:15:38   Is it tweet directly at us with #AskUpgrade

01:15:41   and say, "Is there no episode of upgrade this week?"

01:15:44   By the way, there's never not been

01:15:46   an episode of upgrade in a week.

01:15:48   That's never happened.

01:15:49   We don't take weeks off.

01:15:51   And also, here's the other thing.

01:15:53   Jason doesn't take the time off.

01:15:54   Sometimes I'm not here, right?

01:15:56   So, like, you know, the wonderful friend of the show,

01:15:59   Dan Morin, sent me a message to Slack today and said,

01:16:01   "Hey, if you and Jason are struggling,

01:16:04   I'm just waiting to let you know.

01:16:05   Like, I'm more than happy to fill in."

01:16:07   And I said to Dan, "Thanks. I'll let you know if I need it."

01:16:09   What I didn't say to Dan was, "Jason would not allow that

01:16:13   because Jason doesn't miss upgrade."

01:16:15   It would take a very serious --

01:16:18   I mean, this is almost that case,

01:16:20   but it's like the idea here is that I'm on every episode.

01:16:22   That's the plan.

01:16:24   That's why I'm here.

01:16:25   But, like, we would find a way, right?

01:16:27   So, like, it could even be --

01:16:28   Oh, yeah.

01:16:29   'Cause we've done stuff like this before.

01:16:30   I would call in on the phone and record

01:16:31   and send you the file from Whole Foods

01:16:33   if I had to.

01:16:34   -There would be a way because I love it.

01:16:36   You never miss the show, right?

01:16:38   -But if you're curious about why it isn't showing up

01:16:41   at the usual time, instead of tweeting at us

01:16:44   and #AskUpgrade, follow the #upgrade Twitter account

01:16:49   because that's where we tell you if we're gonna be late.

01:16:52   It tells you when we're recording live,

01:16:54   all of that stuff, and that is @_upgradefm.

01:16:59   And that's a great place to go.

01:17:00   And if you don't use Twitter, you know what?

01:17:02   Twitter.com/_upgradefm will show you what we're tweeting.

01:17:06   And that account essentially only does -- it's live.

01:17:10   You know, we're live on Twitter.

01:17:12   The episode's been posted and any schedule announcements.

01:17:15   That's why it's there.

01:17:16   -And if there's much, we'll post it.

01:17:18   -Sure, that's true.

01:17:19   Or if we ever did a Twitter poll,

01:17:21   I guess that would be it, but we don't.

01:17:23   -So, a couple of tweets a week.

01:17:25   So, it's a low-volume Twitter account to follow.

01:17:27   But you will also get scheduling updates,

01:17:30   and that can be very useful.

01:17:31   Plus, every now and then, we change the avatar

01:17:34   when it's in a new season, right?

01:17:36   So, we've dropped season.

01:17:37   There's a new avatar.

01:17:39   If it's summer of fun, holidays, you know, summer of fun.

01:17:43   -It's gone. -It's a good place.

01:17:44   -It's not fun now. There's no fun now.

01:17:46   -Well, it's like the fall of fire.

01:17:50   -Of darkness. -Fall of darkness.

01:17:52   There you go.

01:17:53   You know, we did say it would be like the winter of discontent,

01:17:56   like that was where we were going.

01:17:58   But, you know, there it goes.

01:18:01   Okay, thanks so much for listening to this week's episode.

01:18:04   We'll be back next time.

01:18:05   Until then, say goodbye, Jason Snow.

01:18:08   -I'll leave the light on for you.

01:18:09   Or I would, but I can't, 'cause I don't have any light.

01:18:12   ♪♪

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