268: Featchas in the Beatas


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:08   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 268. Today's show is brought to you by Pingdom, Zapier, and Fresh Books.

00:00:16   My name is Myke Hurley, I have returned, and I am joined by Mr. Jason Snow. Hi, Jason Snow.

00:00:21   You're not Scottish.

00:00:23   No. But everybody from the United Kingdom is just called English anyway, to the dismay of, uh...

00:00:28   Oh, that's fair.

00:00:30   ...poor people from Scotland. Thanks to James Thompson for filling in last week, it was a very fun episode, I enjoyed it very much.

00:00:37   Yeah.

00:00:37   But I'm back now to wreak my English form of havoc upon this episode.

00:00:43   And #snowtalkquestion comes from David, and David said, and says, "Because I listen to podcasts in the car these days, I've found that I sing a lot less.

00:00:53   If there's no one else in the car, Jason, do you sing along to music, and if so, what is your preferred music to sing along to?"

00:00:59   Um, the music that's playing in the car is the music that I sing along to. If there's music playing in the car, and I'm alone in the car...

00:01:06   So you don't pick specific stuff?

00:01:08   No. No, I'll sing along to anything.

00:01:11   Yeah, me too.

00:01:12   Absolutely.

00:01:12   Me too. And I do sing along, and I love to sing.

00:01:15   You're never in a car alone because you can't drive.

00:01:17   Yeah, but you know, music happens in places other than cars.

00:01:21   Okay, you're right, you're right.

00:01:22   Whether I'm alone or with other people, I will sing because I enjoy singing.

00:01:26   I'll sing along when we were driving Jamie up to college and back, you know, I'm singing along when there's music on the radio. It's fine, yeah, absolutely.

00:01:33   But I don't do it as much as I used to because of podcasts. This is true, David. Absolutely true.

00:01:38   If you would like to send in a Snowtalk question to open a future episode of the show, just send out a tweet with the hashtag #snowtalk, and it will be captured into a spreadsheet, and I will talk about that spreadsheet a little later on in today's episode.

00:01:50   That's a lot of detail.

00:01:51   Mm-hmm. Follow up, lots of follow up, Jason. Lots of follow up today. We have in the past on this show, at least I in the past on this show have spoken about folding phones.

00:02:05   And the first folding phone has become commercially available, which is the Samsung Galaxy Fold.

00:02:10   I own one. And I gave my review of said device on episode 265 of Connected, which I recommend people go and listen to.

00:02:21   It also includes our yearly emoji guessing game, which is a lot of fun.

00:02:26   If you've never listened to Connected, this is a good episode to start with.

00:02:30   It is.

00:02:31   Because it spans the breadth of what we do on that show, and if you do not like that episode, you will never like Connected.

00:02:37   If you like that, you will like the show. So there's two, it's a good two-bit double build.

00:02:42   I mean, I could argue that if you like that episode, you may be disappointed that none of the other episodes is quite as much that as that episode is every year now.

00:02:52   That's true. That's true.

00:02:53   Because it's the Jeremy's now where Federico's guessing emoji, and that is incredibly entertaining.

00:02:58   Mm-hmm.

00:02:59   Also, you talked about the Galaxy Fold, which I listened to some of.

00:03:03   I think I just never finished it. I don't think I got the whole thing.

00:03:09   Because then I listen to ATP and they're like, "Oh, Myke said this." I'm like, "Did I hear that? Oh, maybe I didn't finish that episode."

00:03:14   Because you have such folding, like Steven, you have Folding Phone Apathy, and you just tuned it out.

00:03:20   It seems like if you're interested in space, you do not care about folding phones. That's the only corollary that I've been able to draw.

00:03:26   It's strange, because one day they'll probably use folding phones in space, you would think.

00:03:30   Well, I would think, because I believe them to be the future.

00:03:33   But at least amongst my friends, I'm in the minority of that thought process.

00:03:38   No, I think it's all very interesting, and I'm glad somebody is going through this process of exploring the folding phone, and I'm glad it's not me.

00:03:46   I want to be the person that can help the people inside of our little industry understand this type of technology.

00:03:54   In case it does come for us all, which I believe that it will.

00:03:56   Myke, good old Myke Valley Fold Hurley.

00:04:01   Thank you for remembering that.

00:04:03   Siri Clip Grading. You say, "What are you talking about, Mr Hurley? What is Siri Clip Grading?"

00:04:09   You may remember some weeks ago, we spoke about...

00:04:12   How can I help?

00:04:13   Stop!

00:04:14   I grade that an F.

00:04:17   I grade that Siri Interaction an F.

00:04:19   So, Siri Clip Grading, you may remember, was the report from The Guardian about Apple having contractors listening to Siri interactions.

00:04:31   Well, this and Apple...

00:04:34   Stop!

00:04:35   Ahoy telephone interactions, we'll call them from here on out in the episode, because my technology is refusing to play ball today.

00:04:52   You may remember that this was the thing where Apple was sending misfires like those to contractors to have them listened to,

00:05:01   to grade them as to what type of interactions they were, whether they were right or not, and therefore,

00:05:06   people were having their private conversations, unbeknownst to them, transmitted back to Apple for human beings to listen to.

00:05:13   Apple initially tried to downplay this and then ultimately said, "Yes, we were wrong, we are going to give this as an opt-in."

00:05:21   The iOS 13.2 Beta, which is available in the beta process right now, which brings with it the emoji and other features, also includes this.

00:05:28   It gives you the option to opt-in to making your audio clips of Siri requests available to Apple employees for grading,

00:05:37   but it is worthwhile to remember that text transcripts are still sent no matter what.

00:05:43   Opt-in, opt-out, doesn't matter.

00:05:45   Text transcripts are still sent, and the only way to stop that is to disable Siri on your devices.

00:05:52   I'm still unsatisfied wholly with this response, but at least they are providing an opt-in to the audio portion.

00:06:03   I still think that sensitive information obviously can be transmitted back to Apple,

00:06:08   because text or audio doesn't make a difference, right?

00:06:11   If you're saying something you don't want to have necessarily been heard, it can still be consumed by a human.

00:06:17   But at least again, now these are Apple employees.

00:06:21   As I said at the time, and I still stand by this point, I'm not 100% sure why customers of these products,

00:06:30   no matter what they would like to do, must be included in making these products better.

00:06:37   It's an interesting form of technology, this, where it's like, well, the only way we can do it is to listen or read the communication.

00:06:47   Where my challenge would be, every other form of technology we found ways around this,

00:06:53   right, then forcing the customer to have their information used against them, or used for the benefit of the service.

00:07:03   And I find it wholly peculiar that that seems to be the only way to solve this problem.

00:07:08   We're still waiting for a HomePod update too, right?

00:07:12   Yes, the HomePod has received nothing, and also Apple Watch Series 1 and Series 2 have still not received WatchOS 6.

00:07:22   Right.

00:07:24   These are, let alone the features that have been pulled out of iOS 13 and more, this is it.

00:07:30   Jason, I want to tell you about a weird iOS 13 bug that I've been having.

00:07:33   Oh yeah.

00:07:34   Pictures are deleting.

00:07:35   Oh no.

00:07:35   Yeah.

00:07:36   What pictures are deleting? And where are they going?

00:07:38   I have been, so the main way that I've seen this happening so far is,

00:07:42   so I edit my photos in VSCO, and I save them to my camera roll, and they just delete from the camera roll.

00:07:50   I watch it happen. I open the camera roll, and I watch the images disappear.

00:07:55   So...

00:07:55   That's creepy.

00:07:57   I don't know if photos that I'm taking this is happening to either,

00:08:01   but I'm seeing it happening to images that I'm saving, and I've checked in both places, you know,

00:08:07   like I've checked in like the Photos tab and like the Albums tab in All Photos, right, to see like,

00:08:14   is it assigning dates to them or whatever? Nope, they are just gone. They will just delete.

00:08:19   I used to have a thing that I haven't seen in a while now where I would take some photos while on the lock screen,

00:08:26   and then I would unlock the phone and switch to the Photos app, and the pictures I took wouldn't be there.

00:08:32   I think I have, I mean, I'm doing this by memory, but I believe I have had at least one instance on

00:08:39   iOS 13. I think it was the first time I noticed this where I was trying to take a picture, and it

00:08:43   wouldn't, it just wouldn't save, but now it's, yeah, but now it is these, I've had it multiple

00:08:50   times now, where it's just like, well, so what, am I living in a situation now? Is it even a cloud-based

00:08:55   thing, like where I'm just watching images disappear, right, and I'm not super thrilled

00:09:01   about that one, so I'm going to, I will report back on that, Jason. Okay, there's some advanced

00:09:05   machine learning that's going on that's being analyzed, analyzing those photos, and they're like,

00:09:09   poor edit, Myke, poor edit. Not, I reject your. iOS 13 is just terrible. It's been very bad. It really,

00:09:18   it's just, it doesn't seem to be getting better. They keep pushing out updates, and there are still

00:09:24   so many problems, and so many features that haven't shipped, and I don't like to be that guy, right,

00:09:28   like I try and to be optimistic. I don't think this is the worst version of iOS. I think people

00:09:35   forget iOS 7 when they say that, or iOS 8, which were, for bugs, way worse, and I mean, iOS 13 may

00:09:44   bear itself to be the worst, right, like iOS 7 and 8 have bugs the whole way through the cycle,

00:09:49   and I am like hoping that Apple will somehow iron out 13, but 13 is not good, especially when you

00:09:57   compare it to the stability of iOS 12. It's a shame. More follow-up. Upgrading Jack worked out

00:10:03   that NFC-enabled bank cards can be used to create Siri automations. How awesome is that? Isn't that

00:10:10   great? I just wouldn't have thought about it. So you can scan your bank card, trigger an automation?

00:10:16   Sure. I don't know what you might want to do that for, but go for it. But my thinking on this is,

00:10:21   you may think, why is this important? Well, if you have a bank card that has a contactless chip in it,

00:10:25   and you've just been wondering to yourself, what could I do, like you want to try out NFC triggering

00:10:30   of shortcuts, this would allow you to do that, as opposed to buying stickers or whatever. It's just

00:10:36   like a way to see what that's all about. If you just want to test it, then this is a way to do

00:10:41   that. Also, if you have any of those Nintendo Amiibos, they all have the little chips in them.

00:10:50   Because all it's doing is it's reading these NFC tags, it's just reading a unique serial number,

00:10:57   essentially. And then when it sees that particular serial number, it will run an automation of your

00:11:03   choice. That's how that works. So it's not nothing magical here, but if you have other objects that

00:11:08   have NFC in them, then yeah, you can try it out. You can bring a little Yarn Yoshi with you and

00:11:13   scan it when you need to do something, I guess. Jason, I have an iMac Pro in front of me right now.

00:11:20   Are you on it? Are you using it right now? I'm using it right now. This is the first show I've

00:11:23   recorded on it. And have you ever used Mojave before? No, this is the first time I've been

00:11:27   on Mojave. So that is it, right? So I bought this iMac Pro so I could skip Catalina. I wanted a new

00:11:33   machine. And I've wanted one for a while. I've been using my iMac since 2015. I wanted to upgrade.

00:11:40   I have a family member who's desperately in need of a computer. So it was like the perfect time

00:11:44   for me. And I wanted to get an iMac Pro before I was forced, I should say, to use Catalina because

00:11:53   I know I don't like to be on the most recent version of macOS. I like to be a little bit

00:11:59   behind. I don't want to be the first to encounter a bug, right, on a machine that is purely for

00:12:07   producing podcasts. You want to be the last to encounter that bug. Or the last. But you know

00:12:13   what I mean by being on the cutting edge. It's like, well, here's an edge case you've just

00:12:16   stumbled yourself into. This is the production machine argument, which is that if you've got

00:12:21   something that you're relying on to do your job, then rushing headlong into new software versions

00:12:26   is probably a bad idea. And we always are production machines for our design and copy

00:12:32   editing staff at IDG. We're always a step, at least one step behind because, again, they needed

00:12:42   to be rock solid and working on whatever we were publishing and not toying around with new stuff.

00:12:49   So they upgraded very carefully. So, okay, from Relay FM, this is Myke's iMac Pro review and

00:12:57   Myke's Mojave review. How's it going? Well, I mean, I've been using it for the best part of an hour

00:13:03   at this point. Well, I've set the machine up, right? Like, the machine's been set up. I've been

00:13:07   doing that over the last couple of days, getting it to where I wanted it to be. And this is the

00:13:10   first time I've really sat down to do anything with it. I haven't really put the iMac through

00:13:14   its paces yet. I did want to, I was just wondering, like, how much faster are the typical things that

00:13:19   I'll do? And I've noticed, like, things like forecast, Marco's tool that will encode audio,

00:13:25   runs way quicker. But the biggest thing that I've noticed is that the iMac is completely silent.

00:13:30   Yeah. Right? So things that would make my 5K iMac start screaming, which was forecast,

00:13:38   was definitely one of them. I'm on the iMac Pro, nothing, no noise. I really, genuinely,

00:13:46   this is so stupid, but a space-grade iMac is a significant improvement. It's much nicer to look

00:13:52   at. I think it looks lovely. It's different. I'm using dark mode on Mojave, which I am not sold on,

00:14:00   but I'm trying it out. Dark mode on the Mac is much inferior to dark mode on iOS. Everything

00:14:08   looks weird and ugly, and there are way more apps that don't support it. And it's very strange.

00:14:14   So I'm not sold on that yet either. I used to use increased contrast, which is a setting

00:14:22   in on the Mac, which it kind of just draws some, like, darker lines around elements

00:14:27   inside of Mac OS, which I've enjoyed. I had to turn that off because it's terrible in dark mode.

00:14:34   And I have been, so I want to know if you can help me. I have a persistent badge on settings now.

00:14:45   I have, so you're, it's telling you to upgrade to Catalina, right? Yes. I have just the thing for

00:14:52   you. Who but my good friend Rob Griffiths, who worked at Macworld for many years and does many

00:15:00   tricks now, and of course Mac OS X hints. Who but Rob, who is a cranky guy who does not want to

00:15:08   be told to upgrade and does not want to be bugged, would post a blog post telling you how to remove

00:15:14   the Catalina guilt trip, as he calls it, from Mojave. It's a great post. You got to know Rob

00:15:21   and know that he's just a cranky guy. And he says stuff like, "I have no plans to move my Mac to

00:15:27   Catalina." Right? And it's like, yeah. And it's true. I mean, he's got stuff that will break.

00:15:32   And there's some terminal commands you can put in that will basically say, "Ignore

00:15:37   Catalina updates," and that will go away. And there is still a little persistent flag that

00:15:43   gets generated. And he's got a little script that he also, that if you really want to kill it,

00:15:49   you can put this little script in, and it will always suppress the little alert flag. So we'll

00:15:58   put a link in the show notes to Rob's blog post. I would say for me, the only thing that I find

00:16:01   frustrating is the one on settings, because I have lived throughout the whole of High Sierra

00:16:09   being asked to upgrade to Mojave. Right? So like, I already got that for, like I can get used to my

00:16:15   Mac telling me that there are updates, and then I could just ignore them. Do that every day. But

00:16:21   also just like, "Leave me alone, Macintosh. Just leave me alone, please."

00:16:26   Yeah, that's the part that really bothers me is that there's no user intervention step to just say,

00:16:32   "Do not bug me anymore about this. Like, I'll do it when I want to." And it's just like, "No, no,

00:16:37   no. Update, update, update." But it can be suppressed. So you should probably follow Rob's

00:16:44   various steps and get that flag completely out of there. I'm doing that on my server is the same

00:16:51   story, right? Like, my server is not going to Catalina. It's going to run Mojave forever,

00:16:57   probably. And so I want to turn all that stuff off. And I don't use it, you know, the interface

00:17:02   of it every day, but I want it all to be just gone because I want to park it on Mojave for the

00:17:10   foreseeable future. I love the iMac Pro. Marco loves the iMac Pro. Steven loves the iMac Pro.

00:17:18   Like, welcome to iMac Pro Club. Thank you. Thank you. Congratulations and welcome. And my other

00:17:24   question for you is how many cores did you get? Did you get the base model or did you get a custom

00:17:28   with more cores? I got a custom. I don't know if I got more cores, though. I got the 3.2 gigahertz

00:17:35   Intel Xeon W. How do I know how many cores I have? If you go to the Apple menu, it looks like a

00:17:42   little apple. It's in the corner. You choose about this Mac. Don't do this to me, Jason. I'm looking

00:17:46   at that right now. Don't make it out like I don't know this. I've been using the Mac for, like,

00:17:50   nearly, I don't know how many years, 15 years at this point? I don't know. Yeah, I know. All right.

00:17:55   So now that you've got a window that says Mac OS Mojave and it says iMac Pro 2017 and it says

00:18:02   processor. What does the processor say? That's what I just said. 3.2 gigahertz Intel Xeon W.

00:18:07   It doesn't say how many cores? No. Oh, well, that must be a new feature of Catalina then because

00:18:13   Catalina tells me I have eight cores. I have eight cores. I went into the hardware section on System

00:18:19   Report. Oh, System Report. That's even deeper in there. Now you're a power user. But I got

00:18:25   two terabytes of storage and I upgraded the RAM. I think I got, like, 16 gigabytes of RAM.

00:18:31   No, 64 gigabytes of RAM. Sorry, 16 wasn't a lot. 64 gigabytes of RAM in this machine. That's great.

00:18:37   James Thompson, also a member of the iMac Pro Club. It's just like everybody's doing it.

00:18:42   Everybody finally, finally, you have, so welcome to the iMac Pro and welcome to Mojave, I guess.

00:18:47   This is, you know, 2018 called and congratulates you on your computer. Well, you know, I know,

00:18:53   I know. And I know this machine is at risk of being updated, right? But this is much more

00:18:58   powerful than what I had. I was very happy. I was very happy with what I had. Like, I wasn't feeling

00:19:04   any issues. And you don't want to get boxed into Catalina. Yeah. And I don't want to be on Catalina.

00:19:09   I just, it's just not where I want to be right now because I have always, I've been sketching this for

00:19:15   years, years. It has been since I have updated on day one to Macales. But even amongst my friends

00:19:24   who always do, they're not this time or are advising against it this time. So I definitely

00:19:30   don't want to be on the Catalina train right now. Yeah. I know you don't want to be there.

00:19:36   It's a place you don't want to be, but I'll just say the high temperature today on Catalina, 28C.

00:19:42   Okay. 83F. It's a beautiful, sunny, warm day. So maybe you do want to be there. Catalina is a place,

00:19:48   you know. It is a place. That's what I'm getting at is it's a place. They're not just operating

00:19:52   systems anymore, kids. They're also places. And yet it's still a cat. Why do they do this to us?

00:19:58   After all those cats, they're like, "No more cats." And then they're like, "What's the prize? Catalina,

00:20:01   Catalist!" This cat's called Lena. And it's coming for your 32 bits. And this cat's called List,

00:20:08   Casey List? I don't know. Don't give that to him. He doesn't need something else. I withdraw my

00:20:14   comment. So the last piece of follow-up today, Photoshop for iPad. Remember that? A year ago,

00:20:21   a year ago, I believe we heard about that. There's a report on Bloomberg. The app is nearing launch,

00:20:27   but beta testers are reporting that there are many well-established features that are missing. So I

00:20:33   give a couple of quotes from the article. Users complained about less advanced or missing features

00:20:38   around core functionality like filters, the pen tool, custom paintbrush libraries, vector drawing,

00:20:42   color spaces, raw editing, smart objects, layer styles, and certain options for mask creation.

00:20:48   Some of the missing features. Bloomberg spoke to Scott Belsky of Adobe, who Scott loves to give a

00:20:53   quote. And Scott said, "The beta feature set won't represent..." I know. I was infected by James.

00:21:01   James is making you say beta again. Beta feature.

00:21:03   It's because the word feature was after it. I don't call it "fature." Nobody does.

00:21:08   "The beta feature set won't represent the final version for consumers, and the need to collaborate

00:21:13   with Apple meant that a lot of features are coming in hot ahead of the launch." What does that mean,

00:21:19   Scott Belsky? I don't know what that means. What are you doing? You're doing it again,

00:21:23   aren't you, Scott? Are you saying things you shouldn't be saying?

00:21:26   I feel like Scott's basically saying that iOS 13 is a mess, and so their features are a mess.

00:21:32   That's kind of how it feels to me. Or maybe even that there are things that weren't in the betas

00:21:36   or betas, features in the betas that they couldn't, that they needed to use to make it work,

00:21:44   and they had to wait for Apple to fix the bugs. He's throwing Apple under the bus a little bit

00:21:52   here. Scott Belsky. "At launch," says Scott, "Photoshop will still lack some familiar features

00:21:58   that will only represent version one of the product." I don't really know what to take

00:22:05   away from this. So, the problem is, okay, first off, it's obvious that if they're bringing

00:22:12   Photoshop to iOS and to the iPad, that it's not going to be exactly what's on Mac and Windows,

00:22:21   right? Yeah, because I feel like at the time, we even thought, this is like Final Cut,

00:22:26   when Final Cut changed over, right? From 7 to 10. Right. This is going to be real Photoshop, but

00:22:32   I always assumed real Photoshop would be, you know, we're rebuilding Photoshop for the iPad.

00:22:38   I did not assume every single feature would be there. And also, it's less advanced or missing,

00:22:43   less advanced being a code, I think, sometimes for doesn't do it exactly like I'm used to doing it,

00:22:50   which is not necessarily different, is not necessarily less advanced. Sometimes it is,

00:22:54   sometimes it's not. So, it's not surprising that this Photoshop on iPad is not identical to the

00:23:03   one that people are used to on Macs and PCs. It's not surprising. It's a little disappointing,

00:23:09   because it does sound like they made this announcement, and now it's more than a year later,

00:23:14   and they're still not shipping. I think we all hoped that they would ship it and then iterate

00:23:20   on it, and they still haven't gotten to the point where they can ship it. And, you know, Scott here

00:23:25   is sort of suggesting that's Apple's fault, which is interesting. But he's also, I think, maybe

00:23:30   setting expectations. I think there's a little bit of like, you know, I think important to set

00:23:36   expectations of like, it's not going to be exactly what you know. It's going to be a work in progress.

00:23:41   Adobe has shown actually a lot of ability to iterate rapidly with updates. That's one of

00:23:47   the nice things about them having a subscription service now, and you're in Creative Cloud,

00:23:52   is they just push out new versions with new features, and they just keep doing it. And

00:23:58   there's something kind of nice about that. So, I believe that they can iterate on this. So,

00:24:04   I am disappointed, because, you know, in the broad scheme of things, I think we had hoped that

00:24:11   we would have gotten it sooner, and there would maybe be a little bit more time by now to iterate

00:24:16   on this. But at the same time, I'm not surprised even a little bit, because they are rebuilding

00:24:22   Photoshop for iPad, and it's not going to be every feature there at launch. It's just not. And that

00:24:29   was an unrealistic assumption, I think, that some people made. So, I'm sure. So, beta testers are

00:24:34   complaining. I'm, you know, not surprised in the least about that. I am much more keen, and we

00:24:40   don't have a sense of this yet, I don't think. I want to know what it does, how well does it do it?

00:24:46   That's what I care about more, right? Like, of the features that are in this application,

00:24:52   how good is this app? You know, you see what I'm saying, right? Like, I don't care about what

00:24:56   features aren't in there right now. If they're important enough, they'll find their way into

00:25:00   the software. But what is currently in the product, how well does it do it? And we'll find out.

00:25:06   The good thing is, like, and the way that I see it, is like, it's better than when Final Cut

00:25:11   launched, because this isn't replacing anything. Right. This is brand new. It's brand new.

00:25:16   Nothing's been taken away. And also, it's their intent that Photoshop then lives on iPad, and

00:25:22   they'll continue to iterate it. And that's good for iPad users who like Photoshop. Yep. Because

00:25:26   they will get these things over time. You know what's great about Photoshop, at least from Adobe

00:25:28   standpoint? Like, you pay every month for it, so they can keep iterating on it, right? It's not

00:25:35   like a developer who's like, "Oh, we're gonna make the competitive for Photoshop, it's gonna

00:25:39   cost you $5." And then everyone downloads it, hates it, and then nobody uses it ever again.

00:25:44   You know, it's not like that. So that was a lot of follow-up, but that is the end of the follow-up

00:25:48   today. And we have lots and lots and lots and lots of upstream headlines, and they're basically

00:25:53   all to do with our friends at Apple. Yeah, it's true. It's true. But does that end the beta

00:25:59   segment? Segment? Yeah. Or is it a beta format? I don't know, I'm just trying to think of other

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00:28:38   Upstream time, Jason Snell. Oh boy. Lots of Apple TV+ news. We are hurtling towards November 1st.

00:28:45   Yeah, we're in it now, right? I mean, it's the end of next week is when this all goes down.

00:28:51   Oh, you know what? I wanted to give a little bit of feedback from last week's episode where you

00:28:56   and James were talking about Apple and China. It was all good. And it just reminded me

00:29:02   of... You dodged a bullet there, didn't you? Well, maybe I could just say what I think now so I

00:29:08   could just take the bullet. About the entertainment stuff, it doesn't necessarily bother me because

00:29:18   the entertainment is being made for the world. What is right in one country might not be right

00:29:24   in another country. Apple doesn't necessarily have to make content that only meets the American

00:29:29   standard. It's kind of one of the things I was thinking about anyway. And I say that as someone

00:29:35   coming from the UK. We have different standards around language and what is right and what is

00:29:40   wrong. And I understand that it's mixed up in looking at a very different worldview in China.

00:29:47   An authoritarian state makes things very different. And that is a real mess. But the idea of companies

00:29:57   tailoring content so it performs one of the different markets, that doesn't bother me.

00:30:00   I think people are getting up in arms about that specific thing because of all of the other

00:30:05   terrible things that are happening around China right now. So that was my thinking on that one.

00:30:10   Because as you and James rightly said, this has been happening in Hollywood for a long time now.

00:30:15   Because you've got a billion people there. It would be irresponsible. But anyway,

00:30:22   it doesn't necessarily mean they have to pander to countries. But not offending people isn't

00:30:25   always the worst thing in the world anyway. I don't know. But one of the things that I was

00:30:30   reminded about when listening to that was kind of a thing that I've been saying for a while. When I

00:30:36   first said it, people were really upset at me about Apple as an entertainment company.

00:30:42   Different company. Very different company. This is another example of that. And is just another

00:30:48   example of why Apple is an entertainment company. And we are now all accepting this. Very different

00:30:53   company doing very different things. A lot of it we talk about in the afternoon segment. That was

00:30:57   what I wanted to say. But anyway, there's a lot going on. So Apple have launched their own in-house

00:31:03   studio to create new shows. So they don't have that right now. So all of Apple's content,

00:31:08   they're working with a bunch of partners to create it. They're working with people who write the

00:31:12   scripts. They're working with companies that do the casting. They're working with companies that

00:31:17   will actually create the programming that is not them. But they have now launched their own in-house

00:31:22   studio to create new shows. The first of which is a follow up to HBO's Band of Brothers. Pretty

00:31:27   interesting one to start with. It's called Masters of the Air. It's going to be produced by Steven

00:31:32   Spielberg and Tom Hanks. Van Amburg and Ehrlich, the two people from Sony that Apple hired to

00:31:38   run their Apple TV+ project. They are going to be in charge of this new studio, which will create

00:31:45   this show as its first product. Masters of the Air will be written by John Olaf, who worked on

00:31:52   Band of Brothers. Yeah, it's an interesting story because HBO stopped doing these because they felt

00:31:58   that the price of these expensive things, Band of Brothers and the Pacific, and actually I think

00:32:07   From the Earth to the Moon kind of falls in this category. There's a series of these big

00:32:12   budget HBO miniseries. They were offset, at least in part, by DVD sales. And as DVD sales fell off,

00:32:20   HBO felt like it was no longer as good an investment for them to do them. So this third

00:32:27   World War II related miniseries was pitched and HBO turned it down and it sort of has sat there.

00:32:35   And it's interesting to see that in today's streaming dynamic world, Apple looks at that

00:32:42   and says, "Yeah, I'll have that," and is happy to spend the money because for them, they're not

00:32:50   worried about recouping DVD sales or whatever. They want prestige content for Apple TV+. So

00:32:57   interesting how the sands have shifted there. Because if there's one thing HBO doesn't care

00:33:01   about anymore, it's prestige television. They'll make anything.

00:33:05   Well, this is the funny thing. This is the funny thing, right? I think the situation on the ground

00:33:11   has probably shifted for HBO too, but Apple got back to them about this and maybe HBO has moved

00:33:18   on or maybe I don't know what the story is and maybe they weren't thinking about it. Or maybe

00:33:24   their budget just doesn't fit for something like this, a miniseries like this. But it works for

00:33:30   Apple apparently. So it's definitely prestige stuff with the imprint of the people who brought

00:33:36   you Band of Brothers and the Pacific. And that's Shyamalan's working on a project

00:33:40   and not a lot have been known about it. It now has a name and a premise and a release date.

00:33:46   So it's called Servant. It is a horror show debuting on November 28th. I will read you

00:33:53   the premise taken from a Verge article. Servant follows a couple in Philadelphia as they hire a

00:33:58   nanny to look after a therapy doll they're using to cope with their loss of a child.

00:34:02   Strange things start to happen as the nanny enters their lives. The entire show takes place in one

00:34:08   location, which Shyamalan says is to show a more play-like feel. I have a couple of things about

00:34:13   this. One, this is not a show that I want to watch because, yes, it's too scary. But also,

00:34:19   and we've got a couple of topics that we're going to be talking about today, which go along this

00:34:24   line so we can get into it now or in a minute, that this content is darker, maybe, than people

00:34:35   were expecting. And actually, I will give the second piece of news we're going to talk about

00:34:40   along this line and we can talk about that in a little bit more detail because Apple is also

00:34:44   previewing their shows to the TV industry right now. And I saw this tweet from Stephen Weintraub

00:34:49   of Collider stating that episode 3 of See features "level of violence he was not expecting" from Apple

00:34:57   and goes on to say it was kind of like a "holy poop moment" when Stephen saw how violent this

00:35:04   episode was. So this goes into talking about something we've spoken about so much in the

00:35:11   lead up to this, as there have been many reports about Apple won't accept this, Apple won't accept

00:35:15   that. I think that these two pieces of news show that maybe some of this was wrong. There are

00:35:21   things that Apple won't accept, but violence and gore and adult themes, maybe not so much.

00:35:26   Tim Cynova Yeah, this will play, I think, interestingly with the people who have been

00:35:33   reading about expensive NBC, right, that Apple is sort of a network TV level standards body.

00:35:43   And based on this sort of thing, maybe I think this actually will be beneficial to Apple

00:35:49   potentially when it's making deals for the next round, you know, its next set of deals,

00:35:55   because it's actually one of the impediments Apple has had to doing deals with people is that nobody

00:36:02   knows what Apple TV+ is. Nobody knows what's on it. Nobody knows what it feels like. Nobody

00:36:07   knows the standards of it. And this launch gives Apple a chance to not just impress upon the world,

00:36:14   like here's Apple TV+, but it lets it turn around to people who in Hollywood who are like,

00:36:19   "I don't even know what this thing is, so why would I make a deal with it?" And say, "Here's

00:36:23   what it is. Do you want to be involved?" And depending on how it goes, that could be really

00:36:27   good for them. And this is an example of that where if somebody has a concept and they're like,

00:36:31   "Oh, I can't take this to Apple because they're not going to want it." And then they see that

00:36:34   episode of C or they see the M. Night Shyamalan show, then they might think twice about writing

00:36:41   Apple off. So it will be interesting to see how Apple threads the needle here, how they

00:36:46   communicate it, how they label it, and maybe it was much ado about nothing and sort of grumpy

00:36:51   people who were told to tone something down, but it got generalized beyond what it really was.

00:36:56   We'll see. Because it may have been one of those things where it was like they wanted a specific

00:37:00   project to be different. And I'm thinking of the cancelled Richard Gere project with Vietnam

00:37:07   veterans who were becoming vigilantes, right? Or the Amazing Stories thing, because we've talked

00:37:15   a lot about how all of these streamers want to cover their bases and do kid stuff and appeal to

00:37:22   families and also appeal to adults, and they want to cover it all. And I imagine people who were

00:37:28   involved in that Amazing Stories project, which was originally going somewhere else, and then NBC,

00:37:34   see again, I said it, NBC originally aired it. It was a family-friendly thing.

00:37:39   Apple comes in and looks at what the stories are that the execs running that show want to tell,

00:37:47   and I think basically goes to Steven Spielberg and said, "This isn't the Amazing Stories we wanted

00:37:51   and that we bought. We want the bright, optimistic one like the one that you had back in the '90s."

00:37:57   And those people left. Now, I could see those people saying, "This is exactly NBC, right? They

00:38:04   want NBC at Apple TV Plus." But it doesn't necessarily mean that's true. It means that

00:38:08   Amazing Stories was one that they had tabbed as being more of a family viewing,

00:38:13   and I'm just guessing here, but a family viewing experience. And that may not be true for some

00:38:19   other show, but in the press, those are the people who come out complaining and it becomes this

00:38:24   narrative about it. So the truest response to that narrative from Apple's perspective is probably to

00:38:30   release shows that show that it's not true. - Apple have got some new content and been winning

00:38:35   some bids. The first is for a musical version of A Christmas Carol featuring Will Ferrell and

00:38:40   Ryan Reynolds. - Interesting. And this is a film, unclear whether it will get a premiere in theaters.

00:38:48   I assume they're premiering most things in theaters, but this sounds very much like a

00:38:53   holiday 2020 project. - Yeah, don't expect it this year. - Yeah, and they're producing it,

00:38:59   but also starring in it. And so they would be starring in it, and it's a musical. And I would

00:39:07   imagine if they're going to do a theatrical release, they'll do a small theatrical release

00:39:11   and then also drop it on their service so that people can watch it next Christmas. - So that

00:39:17   seems like some fun, right? Like maybe just like some easy viewing. Let's compare this to

00:39:23   an overall deal that they have scored with Fonso-Koran for a multi-year project to

00:39:32   develop new TV projects. - Yeah, and this is interesting because like J.J. Abrams when we

00:39:37   talked about him and he ended up signing with Warner, J.J. Abrams used to have two deals. He

00:39:43   used to have a movie deal and a TV deal. And this is like that where Alfonso Cuaron, now that he's

00:39:49   in business with Apple, it's possible that Apple will be interested in making deals for individual

00:39:54   movies from him, but he does not have an overall deal with Apple for movies, but he does for TV

00:39:58   development. - And his movie deal is a non-exclusive deal as well. - Right, with anonymous

00:40:05   content. So he can go all over for that, but he gets basically Apple is writing Alfonso Cuaron

00:40:10   a check to say, "Make some shows for us because we like the way you think." And that's also

00:40:16   interesting, right? Because his movies are very stylish and some of them are harder-edged,

00:40:25   but he's a super, super smart guy. And I would imagine that he's surrounded by other really

00:40:30   talented people. And I would love to see some TV from the mind of, you know, Children of Men

00:40:37   and Gravity and Roma, of course, which was a Netflix movie that was beautiful and amazing.

00:40:43   And if people haven't seen it, they should see it. It's gorgeous. - Did Roma win an Oscar? - It did

00:40:49   not. I think it was nominated for many. I'm not sure it won any. I don't recall. It didn't win

00:40:55   Best Picture, but it's really good. And it did get many, many nominations. - Oh, no, it won Best

00:41:00   Foreign Language Film. - Oh, yeah, that's right. But it was also nominated for Best Picture and it

00:41:05   didn't win that. And it won Best Director. Cuaron was Best Director and Best Cinematography, which

00:41:09   he shot it too. So he won both of those. So yeah, it did win some Oscars, just not the big one and

00:41:15   is an amazing movie. So anyway, that guy is now gonna try to come up with some TV shows for Apple.

00:41:22   And again, it will probably be, he will work with collaborators. He will direct maybe the pilot

00:41:27   episode. I doubt it's gonna be one of these things where he directs every episode and writes every

00:41:32   episode and shoots every episode, right? He's gonna be doing that for films. But a lot of times

00:41:36   what happens in these prestige TV projects is you'll get a prestige director, especially if he's

00:41:42   also the producer of it, to do the pilot. And it's not just shooting an episode when you direct a

00:41:49   pilot. It's also defining what the show looks like. And then what they do is they hand that

00:41:54   off to other directors who will presumably be directors that Alfonso Cuaron knows or will

00:42:00   cultivate to, and they'll be excited to work with him. And they hand it off and say, you know,

00:42:05   this is what the show looks like and sort of like shoot it like Alfonso shot episode one. So there's

00:42:12   a lot of creativity that he can pour into the beginning of the process, working with collaborators

00:42:17   without him being like super hands-on on the whole thing. So it's potentially a very interesting deal

00:42:23   for Apple to get him. Again, you just kind of want to have really talented people around you

00:42:27   when you're launching something like Apple TV+. This is a super weird one. Jason Sudeikis will

00:42:33   be reviving his character, Ted Lasso, in a series written by Scrubs creator, Bill Lawrence.

00:42:39   Lasso was a fictional football, British football, soccer coach, that was used to promote NBC's

00:42:47   Premier League coverage in 2013. Yes. They were really great ad spots. They were amazing.

00:42:55   I remember them. A show about this, I don't even know what that is. Like they made a Geico caveman

00:43:00   show. It didn't go well. So who knows? But Jason Sudeikis is really smart. Bill Lawrence is great.

00:43:05   Scrubs, Cougar Town, I think, is also one of his. Really good writer, producer. And the premise is

00:43:15   it's an American football coach who gets hired to manage an English football club, even though he

00:43:21   has no experience with that sport because same name, different sport. And it's funny. So will

00:43:28   they be able to do a show? I don't know. But I really like this. Just follow me here on this

00:43:32   chain. So Apple has, they are creating a show where the character was created on NBC. This show

00:43:42   is being produced for Apple by Warner Brothers. That is a wild ride. There is a lot going on in

00:43:48   there. Can CBS get in there somewhere? Because ABC slide on in there and part of the production

00:43:54   process, can they shoot it? Who owns the IP of this character? It's a good question. Maybe

00:44:00   Sudeikis does? I don't know. Which is just weird, right? Like why doesn't NBC own it?

00:44:06   I don't understand. But there you go. Maybe Jason Sudeikis went to whoever bought this thing and

00:44:12   said, I'd like to develop this into a series and bought, made a deal with them and they get cut in

00:44:17   for some percentage. And so maybe NBC gets a little piece of this too. I would imagine so.

00:44:21   But I really like Sudeikis. I really like the characters. So I'm looking for, I think that

00:44:27   there isn't a lot of comedy on Apple TV+. I agree. And also I love these kinds of shows where it's

00:44:36   a fish out of water kind of thing where you're trying to understand cultural differences. And

00:44:41   that leads to a lot of comedic potential as well. And you see it in a bunch. Lily Hammer on Netflix

00:44:47   was like that. There was an NBC sitcom that was co-produced with a Swedish broadcaster called

00:44:52   Welcome to Sweden that was actually Amy Poehler's brother. That was really funny. I like shows like

00:44:58   that with the collision of cultures and that could potentially be what this is and that would

00:45:02   be funny. So, you know, but then again, it could be the Gecko Caveman show. So no, no, nobody gets

00:45:07   too excited about it. And finally, in Apple TV+ news, For All Mankind has been renewed for a

00:45:12   second season. Jason, can you explain this? Cause it seems peculiar, right? Well, this happens

00:45:19   sometimes where like Apple seen it. Apple seen All For All Mankind, right? Apple knows how they feel

00:45:25   about it and that they want to continue in business with Ron Moore and it wasn't a disaster,

00:45:30   right? Obviously they liked it and they want to do more. I would also say that based on some of

00:45:35   the stuff that I've read, Apple originally planned to launch this a lot sooner, the service, and some

00:45:42   of these shows have to be renewed because generally in these TV contracts, there's a drop dead date

00:45:48   after which the show's actors and stuff get released from their contracts. So you can't

00:45:56   keep them around forever. At some point you need to say, yes, we're ordering more or no,

00:46:00   we're canceling you. And so I'm going to guess that Apple liked it and Apple wanted to proceed.

00:46:07   And also at some point Apple can't wait because they have to give an okay and let them start

00:46:13   production of a second season. Also, if this goes well, they want that second season to be available,

00:46:17   let's say next fall. And if they wait too long, it's going to be two years before they get a

00:46:22   second season of For All Mankind. So this is part of the risk reward calculation here is,

00:46:28   they didn't give it a two season commitment like they did to the morning show where they bought

00:46:34   two seasons upfront. But still, if it's going okay and you like what you're seeing, you really

00:46:41   need to move ahead with a second season as soon as you can because it takes a long time to make TV.

00:46:47   And I still think this is going to be the standout for All Mankind.

00:46:55   I'm very excited about it. And the more I've read about their plan, there was an article,

00:47:00   I forget where it was, that was just this week about how they took reporters behind the scenes

00:47:06   back in the winter to see them shooting some of this stuff and they talked to Ron Moore.

00:47:12   And part of Ron Moore's pitch for this show is that he has seven seasons of it ready to go.

00:47:19   He knows where this story goes. And what's intriguing about that is season one, now we

00:47:23   know from that story, it's the first time I've definitively heard this, that season one takes

00:47:27   place in the late 60s and early 70s. But the idea is that they will continue with the timeline.

00:47:34   So you'll see you start from this one point in history being different and how it changes

00:47:39   everything. And then you just kind of keep going with that story over the course of many seasons.

00:47:44   And then over the course of presumably decades into the future, which is pretty cool. So I'm

00:47:49   looking forward to it. I hope it's good. That's the one that I'm most excited by far to see

00:47:55   because I love the space stuff. So I'm really excited. And the story I read said that they

00:48:00   did a great job of replicating Mission Control, which is cool because Steven Hackett and I were

00:48:05   just at the real one, which was just restored. And apparently while that was going on, they were also

00:48:10   building an identical Mission Control as a set for all mankind. I have two pieces of HBO Max News,

00:48:18   and then we can round out upstream for this week. One, they have scored an exclusive streaming rights

00:48:25   deal for Sesame Street. Five new seasons, 50-year library, all going to HBO Max. This is that

00:48:33   competing for families thing, right? Where Disney+ obviously has all that content. Apple's trying to

00:48:38   do some of that. And here is HBO Max wanting that. And this is huge news. HBO Max has scored

00:48:46   exclusive US streaming rights to the Studio Ghibli movies, the Miyazaki movies, which have never been

00:48:52   anywhere before on streaming and are incredibly hard to get digitally in any form. Yeah, there

00:48:57   are a handful of later ones, like Ponyo is an example somebody brought up where they did get

00:49:03   a run on like, Starz, and there was a Starz deal with Netflix for a while. And so Ponyo was on

00:49:11   Netflix for a little while. So there are some exceptions, but in general, Miyazaki movies have

00:49:17   only been available on home video. And this is the great Japanese animation director, Hayao Miyazaki.

00:49:23   We've done a whole series of episodes about his movies one by one on the incomparable. So great.

00:49:31   And we do these episodes, and John Siracusa and me and a bunch of other people are talking about

00:49:37   these great movies, and then we always hear from people who are like, "Is it really not available?"

00:49:41   digitally, like, you can't buy it or rent it on iTunes. You can't stream it on a streaming

00:49:46   service. It's just not available unless you buy the disc or go to a movie theater and see it,

00:49:51   because they screen them there. And it's true. It's one of the great frustrations that this stuff

00:49:58   has never really been freely available. The library has not been freely available on a

00:50:03   streaming service. So it's going to be on HBO Max. It's kind of gigantic, because those movies are

00:50:10   treasures. And it's also interesting, because they used to have a very close relationship with

00:50:16   Disney. Disney released all of their movies on home video, and that relationship ended.

00:50:23   G-kids took over the disc distribution. And so I heard from several people who were like, "I

00:50:31   thought they were tight with Disney and this would go on Disney Plus." And I was like, "Well, no."

00:50:36   I would say exactly the wrong time that relationship ended. And although I'm sure Disney

00:50:40   could have bid for this and perhaps did bid for this, it went to Warner. So it'll be on HBO Max.

00:50:46   It's a big deal. These are movies that some people have not seen just because they were not available

00:50:50   readily on streaming. And they're so great. So it's amazing that they're going to be on HBO Max.

00:50:56   It's another reason. It's going to be hard. See, this is the thing. Everybody's like, "I don't need

00:51:00   HBO Max or I don't need Disney Plus." And then you see what's on it and you're like, "Oh, no.

00:51:04   Oh, no. The libraries are going to keep getting better. They're going to keep making deals like

00:51:08   this." They're going to make it as hard as possible for you to not subscribe to their service.

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00:52:58   So, October event, Jason? We were expecting one. We're at this point goading Apple to send out

00:53:07   invites, but it feels like it might be a bit late. We're practically daring them to not put an invite

00:53:14   in people's email tomorrow. But even if they do, this conversation will still kind of bear true

00:53:21   because the reason we're expecting an event is because there are lots of products that we're

00:53:28   still expecting. There's lots of smoke around a lot of products. From a high level, we're talking

00:53:35   Mac Pro, MacBook Pro, maybe new iPad Pros. What about AirTile competitor? AirPods? What about

00:53:42   streaming bundles? All of this stuff. There's loads of rumors around this stuff. And there doesn't seem

00:53:48   to be any expected runway of when we're going to see these products because we would have expected

00:53:55   there to be an event next week, which at this point seems incredibly unlikely. Yeah. It's been

00:54:01   a while since they did an event with a week's notice. It'd be very upsetting because we wouldn't

00:54:06   have drafted. But I want to talk about these products, Jason. I want to go through them a

00:54:11   little bit with you. Where are they currently at right now? And then we can maybe talk about

00:54:15   why we may have not seen anything. So the Mac Pro being the first one, this is a product that we know

00:54:20   exists. This is a product that is due out this year. Yes. And we would expect it to be very soon,

00:54:28   right? But there's been nothing since WWDC. Yeah. I mean, if we make the analog the iMac Pro,

00:54:35   the iMac Pro, there was nothing after it was announced at WWDC until it shipped at the very

00:54:43   end of December. Yeah. So that could be the model here. And let's be honest, the Mac Pro,

00:54:49   while our audience, a segment of our audience cares about it a lot, is a low volume product

00:54:55   that is cared about in very specific circles and not broadly, those people are paying attention,

00:55:00   does not need a broad consumer launch. This is one of those when we were talking about doing an

00:55:05   October event that would be like, well, if you're going to do a pro-focused event, of course you

00:55:10   would use that opportunity to talk about the Mac Pro. But they're not worried about getting this

00:55:13   one out before the holidays. Right. Exactly. It's not going to be a big holiday seller.

00:55:18   Stockings stuffer. Maybe by the end of the year, one of the nice things about getting out by the

00:55:22   end of the year is companies that want to load it into their capital budget, especially a big buy

00:55:27   like this. And I have no doubt that's why it's coming before the end of the year in the same way

00:55:30   iMac Pro. But if it comes on like December 20th, it probably doesn't make too much of a difference.

00:55:36   Exactly. And if they put it up for sale on December 1st or something like that,

00:55:40   then and ship them all toward the end of December, it doesn't really matter because it's not part of

00:55:46   the holiday rush. It's just a thing that they need to do in parallel. And so they don't need

00:55:52   to talk about it more on a stage somewhere. They already did that. Right. They already gave it

00:55:56   time that is probably even the time of WWDC is probably not a great use of their time,

00:56:01   given how many of them they'll sell, even though it's an important product and they did it as a

00:56:05   gesture. It's, you know, it's not for the masses. So, yeah. But we have no reason to expect that

00:56:14   anything's changed here, though, right? No, I imagine at this point, I kind of imagine that it

00:56:21   is on that iMac Pro track where it'll just kind of come by the end of the year. And there will be

00:56:27   that moment where they put up the ordering where there are a bunch of stories about, oh, can you

00:56:31   believe that Apple is making a computer that will cost $100,000 or whatever, right? Like, there'll

00:56:37   be those stories. But, you know, it's it. They don't. They can do it just like the iMac Pro if

00:56:44   they want to. So MacBook Pro. So there's been some more stuff going around this over the past couple

00:56:50   of weeks. So there's this is a 16 inch MacBook Pro that we're expecting with a new keyboard,

00:56:55   obviously a bigger screen, 16 inch and potentially some new processors. It is effectively everybody

00:57:01   s wishes just funneled into a computer. This will be an ultimately disappointing computer for many

00:57:07   people because there's way too much writing on it right now. It's gonna have rainbows, like,

00:57:12   literally a rainbow logo. It's gonna have the best touch bar ever and also no touch bar. It's gonna

00:57:18   have the best keyboard ever. It's gonna be like, yes, it is everybody's dream of a MacBook Pro

00:57:28   poured into it. So inevitably disappointing because of unrealistic expectations.

00:57:35   But the rumors for this continue to say that it's coming soon. Yeah, and there is again,

00:57:41   like more kind of stuff happening. So one thing was that somebody it was a I want to find the

00:57:48   website, a French website called Mac generation uncovered icons that appear to be a different

00:57:56   MacBook Pro in the current beta of at least the first couple of betas of Mac OS Catalina.

00:58:02   And it seems to show a when especially when you put it side by side with the current kind of

00:58:09   iconography or like what are these used for? Like somewhere in the system, just like images like of

00:58:15   icons of servers that you connect to or, you know, yeah. And then when you compare the current one to

00:58:23   the updated model, you can see the bezels are slimmer. People, including yourself, zoomed in

00:58:29   and could see maybe it doesn't have a touch bar all the way, right? Maybe there's some like an

00:58:34   escape key and that kind of stuff. But there's stuff continues to appear about this machine.

00:58:39   There Min-Chi Kuo is still saying it's coming and Digitimes published a report today and I'll read

00:58:45   a quote from MacRumors. Apple's widely rumored 16-inch MacBook Pro will be available by the end

00:58:49   of October, suggesting that an announcement is imminent, according to a supply chain sources

00:58:54   cited by hit or miss industry publication Digitimes. Ooh, Digitimes burn! That's why I

00:58:59   wanted to put that one in there in a quote, because like, you know, it's referenced as maybe being not

00:59:04   the most reliable. But there is a anybody who reports on rumors and that kind of stuff,

00:59:12   especially supply chain stuff, will not budge on this machine being out, not just this year,

00:59:17   but by the end of this month. Right. And so this is the I think this is the core of probably a

00:59:25   discussion that Apple had at some point, which is do we have enough to hang an October event off of?

00:59:30   But I think the answer and we'll talk about the iPad. But if if this is the real big hardware

00:59:34   product that's coming, like do you do a whole show just for a laptop, a Mac laptop that, you know,

00:59:41   Apple has shown that they can introduce new hardware without an event. They could do an

00:59:48   event if they wanted to, but they could just as easily do a bunch of briefings for journalists

00:59:52   and make a press release announcement and put up a video and call it a day for a lot less effort.

00:59:59   So it may be that I think you could build an event around this product, but you don't have to,

01:00:08   I guess, because they've managed that. I have analyzed somebody posted a little animation of

01:00:13   the two icons of the current macro pro in this macro pro back to back and like flickering back

01:00:19   and forth. And you can kind of see, like the suggestion that there is a little gap on either

01:00:27   side of what would be the touch bar. Presumably that's the power slash touch ID button on one side

01:00:32   and maybe an actual escape key on the other side. But, you know, it's who knows? Who knows how how

01:00:41   right that is. But I think it's telling that we have not had that big rumor story from somebody

01:00:48   in the supply chain saying, you know, wave it off. It's not going to happen. So it sounds like it is

01:00:52   going to happen whether there's an event or not. I think a potential reason if there is no event,

01:00:57   there will be no event like if they were going to build. So there's other stuff we can talk about,

01:01:01   maybe stuff got moved around. But if they were thinking about, will we build an event around

01:01:04   this machine? I think one of the reasons they wouldn't do this, I think it's going to be a

01:01:08   very expensive computer. Right. Like we've seen those we've seen those reports. I think this thing

01:01:13   will be you will not get one for less than three thousand dollars and it will sit at the top end of

01:01:20   the current macro pro line replacing nothing just being an addition. And I think it would be very

01:01:27   strange for Apple to have an event where I mean, even though it's a pro focused event where like

01:01:31   they're showing off the Mac Pro, which is going to be massively expensive and the Mac Pro, which is

01:01:35   going to be massively expensive. And maybe they don't need to do that, considering that both of

01:01:41   these products will be pretty niche in their ownership. For sure. Anything just because of

01:01:45   how expensive they're going to be. Yep. But then there are some consumer focused products as well.

01:01:53   Well, there was there was rumors of an updated iPad Pro, but this has maybe been pushed to next year.

01:01:58   New cameras, new processes, that kind of thing. But the most recent rumors that I saw was like,

01:02:04   it's going to have a completely different camera module that it has like additional sensors, right.

01:02:09   That like 3D sensing thing camera, right. Like time of flight, I think it's called.

01:02:15   Yeah, that's right. And so that's going to be an iPhone. So they might want to hold off

01:02:20   on that. Right. Because maybe they don't need it right now. Yeah. It strongly suggests that this

01:02:26   is that the iPad Pro is on an 18 month schedule, not a 12 month schedule, which is fine, which kind

01:02:31   of makes sense. And that they'll they'll bump the processors and change this camera technology,

01:02:36   but not until next spring. And that that rumor has circulated recently to the point where I think all

01:02:43   of us who carefully closely follow the iPad kind of nod and go, all right, it's not going to happen

01:02:48   this fall. But there's still this tile competitor, the Apple tag, right? Like the thing that you can

01:02:53   attach and work and find my Yep, everyone's been expecting this. I mean, people have talked about

01:02:59   it. There's a lot of evidence for it. I it didn't get announced when everybody thought it would.

01:03:04   And so I think you have to ask the question just because there's been a lot of smoke around this.

01:03:09   Is there any fire still going on there? I think that's the thing you have to ask is this product

01:03:15   could exist. I'm sure it did exist. Does it still exist? Is it is it not ready? Did it end up not

01:03:23   working? Did they look at it and say this isn't good enough for us or we can't make enough money

01:03:28   with this thing? I don't know. But that is the question because it sounds like a cool product

01:03:36   and a consumer product and when you'd want to roll out and and get people to know about. But if you

01:03:42   really had it ready to go, you would have done it at the iPhone event and they didn't. So I think

01:03:48   it's an open question just because everybody said there's lots of evidence for it. I have no doubt

01:03:52   that they worked on this product and that it exists. But the question is after air power,

01:03:57   especially like let's not discount the possibility that they decided not to release it or it's just

01:04:05   not ready and they decided to kick it into next year. And there's also lots of rumors about new

01:04:11   AirPods. We've been hearing about these for a while. So AirPods with noise canceling in them.

01:04:17   There has been some I wanted to kind of collate a bunch of reports to give a very basic overview.

01:04:23   AirPods Pro is the idea of what these pro probably called. Almost also rumored to launch in October,

01:04:29   probably for $260 is where the rumors are right now. Metal design, water resistant with noise

01:04:37   cancellation. And we've also seen hints in the 13.2 code of a new design. So like having the

01:04:44   little tips that go in the air along with sliders that could be included in control center to adjust

01:04:50   the active noise cancellation. AirPods are a big product for Apple. They're probably a

01:04:57   product to fantastic holiday product. One of I think Apple's most caught one of their most

01:05:03   culturally significant products in a long time, probably the most since since the iPhone.

01:05:09   Right. Just like as an item that has hit mass cultural appeal. Right. Like people know what

01:05:14   they are. It's like a thing that people have on their body. Right. Like in the same way that you

01:05:18   would have the white earbuds. And that was weirdly like it became culturally significant after being

01:05:24   around for like a year. Right. Just kind of like hit like it hit a critical mass and AirPods

01:05:30   exploded and it became a meme for a bit and stuff. I think that this product makes a lot of sense.

01:05:35   Maybe like if they're going to if they're going to have it this year, it would come about now

01:05:42   because you again, you want that for the holidays and the lineup of what this product could be makes

01:05:48   a lot of sense to me. So about metal design, that seems weird. I don't know if they need that.

01:05:53   I guess we'll wait and see. But noise cancellation or active noise cancellation in a product of this

01:06:00   size is something that is beginning to exist more and more. There are some Sony headphones that are

01:06:04   doing this now, some Bose headphones, I think they're doing this now like in-ears. So it would

01:06:08   be a cool product for Apple to have and to have multiple products in an AirPods line. I'm sure

01:06:13   is something Tim would love. So I wouldn't be surprised to see this. I would be very surprised

01:06:20   if this product didn't launch this year, maybe even more so than the MacBook Pro because this

01:06:25   just feels like if they've got something in the hopper right now, this makes a lot of sense, right?

01:06:29   To get out immediately if they can. Absolutely. And you this is another product that would have

01:06:37   had a lot of success in being part of a consumer media event, right? Consumer special event for

01:06:43   them, but they didn't launch it in September. So where are we with it? This is one of those

01:06:50   a little more of a head scratcher. Like Apple can launch anything without an event. It's not

01:06:53   a problem. So they may just do this and put it out there. Also, I have to say, I think it's also

01:06:58   possible that you look at something like the tracking tile or the AirPods and think maybe they

01:07:04   have some production issues where there are only so many of these they're going to make. And maybe

01:07:09   not the worst thing in the world to not stoke up even more demand for a product that they can't

01:07:14   ship enough of for the holidays. So you put out there what you can and you sell every one of them,

01:07:19   but maybe you don't need an enormous launch. Maybe you let the ramp up be slower because you are

01:07:26   still not going to be able to make enough in time. I don't know. Like the original AirPods, right?

01:07:31   Very, very constrained for a while. Exactly. So why go to the trouble of all the extra marketing

01:07:37   and all the extra time of building a media event if you're going to be able to sell every one you

01:07:43   make anyway? And lastly, I think one of the other things we've been expecting this year

01:07:49   has yet to come, may never come, media bundles. But there was a report a few weeks ago from the

01:07:55   Financial Times that they heard from sources that Apple is talking to people in the music industry

01:08:02   about a super bundle. So probably the idea of as well as there are other things like TV and arcade

01:08:09   also including Apple Music into a larger bundle that they will be providing of all of their

01:08:14   services. So I'd kind of maybe thought that the bundle was dead until I heard this. It seems that

01:08:20   Apple is still trying to shake some trees as to whether this is a service they would like to offer.

01:08:25   So this is kind of like as where we stand towards the end of October. These are all of the things

01:08:31   that we're still expecting to see at some point and there's been lots of smoke about all of them.

01:08:35   But maybe, as we said, maybe it's not already. Maybe only some things are ready.

01:08:40   What do you think here though out of this list would Apple most realistically want to launch

01:08:47   by press releases? You know, I remember they did that wild week of press releases.

01:08:52   Sure. Do you think that we could see something like that? And if so, what is most likely in your

01:08:57   opinion to be launched that way without kind of convening the world's media? I think the truth is

01:09:03   all of these products could be launched with a press release and some media coordinated media

01:09:07   coverage. All of them. Every single one of them. And you know, who knows as we sit here today on a

01:09:14   Monday morning as we record this in California, who's to say they could do it this week. They

01:09:19   could do it next week. They could just roll all this stuff out. Announce a price and release day

01:09:24   for the Mac Pro. Announce a new laptop. Announce a tile competitor. Announce new AirPods. And

01:09:30   just drop those off. They could do all of that. Media bundle, who knows? I mean, they can literally,

01:09:36   anytime they could throw that out there. My guess is that will happen later because they're about to

01:09:39   launch Apple TV Plus and they've got the free trial and all of that. So I think they're just

01:09:44   gonna end the year of free if you've got a new device. I think they can go for a while with that.

01:09:50   And I do feel like without the iPad Pro, the idea of doing a pro-focused event loses a little

01:09:57   something. It made sense when it was a new Mac Pro, MacBook Pro, and iPad Pro. But when iPad Pro

01:10:03   gets pulled out, it is a less compelling event. It's more like a couple of, here's a laptop and

01:10:09   a bunch of little gadgets. And that's a less compelling event, I think, which might be one

01:10:15   of the reasons why it appears that they won't do it. But I think they could do all of these,

01:10:19   I think, to varying degrees. Obviously, the MacBook Pro, you wanna have people get their

01:10:25   hands on it under embargo and then talk about it and do some interviews and podcasts. And I know

01:10:34   that this would be a bigger launch event in some ways than that iMac speed bump where we did the

01:10:38   interview and all of that. But again, that was an example of a product launch where there was

01:10:43   coordinated media, but it wasn't an event. And they could absolutely do that with that product.

01:10:50   And some of these other products, even less, I mean, they can do coordinated, like the AirPods,

01:10:54   if there are new AirPods, they probably would wanna do some coordinated media for that because

01:10:58   they want some stories out there saying, "Oh, I used these and they're great," or whatever.

01:11:02   But I think they could do this all by press release and a little bit of behind the scenes

01:11:07   work and not need to call people to an event at a theater somewhere.

01:11:11   - And maybe they will if they're gonna have any of this stuff because it certainly seems like

01:11:15   there will not be an Apple event, another one this year. It seems very unlikely, at least. Apple have

01:11:22   earnings on the 30th. - On the 30th, yeah. It seems like we've run out of time. It's still possible.

01:11:29   I still keep thinking Apple TV+ launches on the first and it makes me wonder, like,

01:11:36   could you do an event, you know, would they do an event that was like an Apple TV+ launch event that

01:11:42   also they threw out some products in? That was something we toyed with. We talked about, like,

01:11:47   doing something in LA on the 29th or something like that and having it be both of those things,

01:11:52   having it be kind of an Apple TV premiere event and then also make some product announcements. But

01:11:56   that's also a little weird crossing of the streams of their different kinds of products. So

01:12:00   maybe there's nothing. Maybe the fact is Apple can get the attention without calling an event.

01:12:04   So maybe that's what they'll do. - All right, let's round out today's episode,

01:12:09   as we always do, with some #AskUpgradeQuestions. But before we do, let me thank our final sponsor,

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01:13:38   So #AskUPGRADE. First question comes from Jamie. "Considering the success of Apple's A series of chips

01:13:47   (so the chips that go into their iOS devices and more), what do you think the new form factors

01:13:52   could be?" "This happened again." "What is going on today?" "What is going on, Jason?" "I don't know.

01:14:06   Maybe you've been hacked." "Why is this happening so much today? Very peculiar." "It was the A

01:14:11   series processors, I think." "But still, though, this doesn't happen to me. I say this stuff all

01:14:15   the time. Jamie's question was, "What do you think that new form factors could be if Apple goes to

01:14:21   ARM processors for the Mac? Could we see the Mac Mini become as small as the Intel NUC?"

01:14:27   "You know, I love that size because it's so tiny, but I think the answer is no, because the fact is

01:14:33   Intel NUC shows that you can do it with Intel. You can put a bunch of ports on it, and it's little,

01:14:40   and it's great. And Apple didn't do it. Apple kept the same size for the Mini. So I think Apple

01:14:48   makes design decisions based on their own choices and priorities and all of that, and they've decided

01:14:56   that they want the Mac Mini to look like that. So I think Intel has products that are capable

01:15:05   of doing all sorts of interesting things. That's not what drives Apple with its decisions."

01:15:11   "Because I even think, like, oh, you could say, oh, maybe they can make the laptops even thinner

01:15:15   and lighter, but I expect when Apple inevitably moves to ARM that they won't do that. They will

01:15:20   want to get their gains for other things, right? So if you keep the laptops around the same kind

01:15:25   of size, imagine how long the battery life could be. And they might go for stuff like that, as

01:15:31   opposed to changing the form factors immediately." Daniel writes in and says, "I am in need of your

01:15:37   help for a solution for system storage issues on my Mac. It's currently taking up 40 gigabytes."

01:15:43   Daniel has a small hard drive. "I tried disutility and cleaning out files, but nothing seems to work.

01:15:48   I am open to any and all thoughts about how to deal with my storage crisis."

01:15:52   What do you think? Do you have any hot tips on this one, Jason? I mean, the thing is,

01:15:58   right, the system storage stuff. So Daniel has a 120 gigabyte SSD as the startup disk,

01:16:06   and it's taking up 40 gigabytes of the system. There's nothing you can really do about a lot

01:16:11   of that, right? Yeah, it's weird because, like, I'm looking at mine and my system is 10 gigabytes.

01:16:18   That's it. Yep. Hmm. I'm thinking something's gone wild here. I mean, could it be...

01:16:27   What is that thing that was introduced? Could it be APFS stuff? Let's do it.

01:16:34   I don't think so. I don't really know what's going on here. It's... There's a tough-ask

01:16:39   upgrade because I don't have an answer. Well, my system storage is 91 gigabytes, so...

01:16:45   Huh. I have a two terabyte hard drive, though. I don't know. So all I would suggest is the

01:16:53   only thing that I could recommend is using an app like CleanMyMac or DaisyDisk to see if it

01:16:58   can maybe give you something. There might be some, like, backup stuff going on. Maybe it's, like,

01:17:03   Time Machine. Could that be in it, right? It's just not dumped at all off onto... I don't know.

01:17:08   I don't know. Also, if you haven't tried it, because he says disk utility and cleaning out

01:17:15   files, if you haven't tried it yet, go to AboutThisMac, click on Storage, and click on

01:17:21   Manage. If you haven't tried that, try that, because that will open the system information app

01:17:25   and it will show you all sorts of stuff that's on your disk that you might be able to delete. But,

01:17:33   you know, when I look at that, the system entry is grayed out, because the system is intended to be

01:17:38   just sort of this thing that you don't touch. And in fact, on Catalina, it's literally a thing you

01:17:44   can't touch. It's mounted read-only. So I don't know. Try that. Try some of those third-party

01:17:51   applications outside of that. I don't know. If any other... If any, uh, upgradians have answers

01:17:58   that they can pass along, please do. Greg Wrightson, "Do you think the Apple Watch

01:18:04   battery would improve from eliminating Force Touch, the Force Touch layer, in a similar way

01:18:10   that the removal of 3D Touch did for the iPhone?" I'm not sure how critical this method is, this

01:18:16   interaction method is, to watch usability. What do you think? My guess is that it won't do much,

01:18:24   because on a very small screen, there is just a very small amount of sensor and, you know,

01:18:31   tension monitoring you need in order to get the sense that something's being depressed. I don't

01:18:35   think it's gonna save you what it would save you on an iPhone screen. But then again, every little

01:18:41   bit counts on an Apple Watch. I'm sure that if they... Like, the truth is that Force Touch on

01:18:48   Apple Watch is kind of pointless. Like, it's very not discoverable. And it's been buried as well.

01:18:55   I mean, really, the place that you use it is on the watch face in order to do custom watch faces.

01:19:01   But again, it's not super discoverable. Could they just turn it into a tap and hold, and would that

01:19:06   be just as discoverable? Probably. So, you know, I think Apple has definitely decided that the

01:19:18   Force Touch dimension is not a useful user interface thing, and that you might as well

01:19:24   just do tap and hold. And so, of course, they're gonna look at that for the Apple Watch. But,

01:19:28   you know, it wouldn't... It actually, because they've gotten rid of it on the iPhone,

01:19:32   I would not be shocked if they got rid of it on the Apple Watch, even if it isn't a great savings,

01:19:37   just because they're feeling like telling people to push harder is not a thing that they wanna do

01:19:42   anymore, that they've kind of, like, decided that didn't work and they're gonna move on.

01:19:46   >> I would say, though, if there is some kind of gain to be made, I think for the Apple Watch,

01:19:54   you take the thickness gain, not the battery gain. Like, make the device a little thinner,

01:19:59   because I think the Apple Watch desperately still needs that.

01:20:01   >> Agreed.

01:20:02   >> It is way too thick. And that they should be doing everything they can to try and make

01:20:06   that thinner and thinner over time. Because I know people have had issues with the always-on

01:20:11   screen, but the battery life is great. Like, it's still great. It's still an all-day device.

01:20:15   It's fine. Matthew says, "After listening to upgrade 252, I was thinking about transitions

01:20:21   in video technology. VHS to DVDs was rough. I lost access to lots of my movies this way.

01:20:26   Do you think owning digital movies, like on iTunes, is a safe bet for future-proofing

01:20:30   my collection going forward?" >> Yes and no. I think

01:20:36   access is probably going to be maintained. Like, if you buy something on iTunes or Amazon,

01:20:43   or you've got it in the Movies Anywhere collection, I bet you that's going to last a long time.

01:20:48   I think what you're not going to get is what you usually get out of a format transition,

01:20:56   which is improved quality. Like, that's the thing where you're going to still need to buy it again

01:21:01   if you want the 4K HDR version and you buy it in HD.

01:21:03   >> Do you think iTunes do that, though? Like, if you -- I mean, I know what you're saying,

01:21:06   you can't always bank on it. But I'm sure that, like, you got upgrades to, like, at least HDR.

01:21:13   >> Apple has updated some things, but a lot of other things not. Like, if you bought a

01:21:20   Standard Def movie, I think you didn't get HD. Although, Movies Anywhere, I believe,

01:21:25   did do some of that. So if you bought it in Standard Def and then it was a movie that synced

01:21:30   to Movies Anywhere, then you got it back in HD. It's weird, some weird stuff in there. But I think

01:21:34   that's the thing that is going to bug you in the future, is that you're just going to have these

01:21:41   things where you're like, "Oh, but now it's 4K HDR," or "Now it's 8K," or whatever,

01:21:45   however many Ks there are. And you're going to have your old 1080 version and just dumb old HD.

01:21:52   That's not good enough. And you'll have to buy it again. It would be nice if you could pay an

01:21:56   upgrade fee and whatever, but -- you know, or just get it upgraded for free because you bought it.

01:22:01   But that will be, I think, what they'll have you do for those purchases where you own it,

01:22:06   you know, own the streaming rights without it being on a streaming service somewhere.

01:22:10   - And of course, you know, the other thing about owning it digitally like that is you

01:22:14   don't necessarily always own it. Like, if it's a DVD, you at least always have the

01:22:17   DVD in your physical possession. - Exactly. If the service goes away,

01:22:23   you know, you're banking on that service continuing on Movies Anywhere or Amazon or

01:22:28   iTunes to continue having that in the library. And those services are so huge that I think that

01:22:35   that's not a bad thing to bet on. But yeah, if you've got the disk, then even if the services

01:22:43   all die, as long as you've got a disk player or can buy another disk player when that one dies,

01:22:49   you will have it. And you can -- if it's a Blu-ray and you can rip it, and then you've got the file,

01:22:54   like, you know, yes, that's still the trade-off. The problem with the really beautiful 4K HDR stuff

01:23:00   is that that stuff is not generally something you can rip today. There are some that you can,

01:23:07   but it's like you don't -- you can't -- those tend to stream only. Then again, you know,

01:23:12   what I've been doing lately is movies that I really want to have, I have been buying the 4K

01:23:19   HDR disk because I have a 4K HDR player and a 4K HDR TV, and that has the highest bit rate,

01:23:26   and they're beautiful, and they generally come with a digital code that will pop the 4K HDR stream

01:23:32   version into my iTunes library and movies anywhere. So, you know, I've been doing that,

01:23:37   but that means I do have that disk, which is the highest quality, and if the world ends and somehow

01:23:43   I still have power and a TV, then I can watch the movie. Alex asks, "Will I be able to watch Apple

01:23:50   TV+ shows on my Mac running Mojave? Not having access to 4K is fine, but I would like to watch

01:23:56   it in 1080p on my desktop." There is a web version. The web, yeah, you'll be able to watch shows on

01:24:02   the web, and they'll be in 1080p probably, and that'll be fine. So, yeah. But you won't get the

01:24:07   TV app because the TV app is Catalina only. Right. You just watch it on the web. Yeah, and only

01:24:13   certain Macs can do 4K anyway, like the latest MacBook Pro and iMacs from 2018 -- or '17 and '18.

01:24:24   It's a limited group of systems that can do full 4K streaming, and the rest of them just show the

01:24:29   HD version, even on Catalina. Finally today, Adrian asks, "Does it bother you that Todoist

01:24:35   isn't updating their app for multiple Windows support for iPadOS anytime soon?" I picked this

01:24:41   question not just because of Todoist. It's to talk -- it's an error grievance that I have, which is

01:24:45   so many applications that I use are not doing anything on a multi-window right now, and it's

01:24:50   frustrating because this is a feature that's not gotten off the ground. It's a very slow start,

01:24:54   and most of the apps that I want to use in multi-window -- nothing. Crickets.

01:25:00   I just got a beta of an app that I use all the time, and the beta enables multi-window,

01:25:05   and I had that moment where I thought, "Well, okay, multi-window, but how am I going to use

01:25:11   that?" And then I immediately realized, "Oh, I can put these two windows side by side and have two

01:25:16   different..." I had that moment where I was like, "Oh, no, that's actually pretty cool. That's kind

01:25:20   of what I want." So, you know, the multi-window stuff, I think there's a real question about how

01:25:26   many people are going to use it. It's a power user feature. I think in the long run, it has a lot of

01:25:31   benefit, but it's a weird feature, and it's limited. But there's also a whole chicken and egg

01:25:36   thing happening here where you need to have the apps for people to discover use cases for them.

01:25:44   You know, I think it all goes back to the iOS 13 betas being rough, and we know developers

01:25:51   who have had to prioritize getting their apps to work right on iOS 13 over any other

01:25:59   priority, right? Next is add features to the iOS version, and then after that you do the catalyst

01:26:07   version. What might have in a perfect world taken place this summer has stretched over

01:26:14   six to nine months of them doing this. So I'm hopeful that we'll get more of those windowed

01:26:20   apps on the iPad soon, but I kind of understand why they aren't all there because, you know,

01:26:25   if you've got to choose to get your app running properly first, you've got to do that first and

01:26:32   then go on from there. So I'm starting to see it. I've got two apps, actually, that I use a lot on

01:26:35   my iPad that both have recently gone into beta with multi-window support. So they're working on

01:26:40   it, and who knows, maybe Todoist is too, but that's why it's happening so slow, and it's

01:26:47   frustrating because there are good uses for that stuff.

01:26:49   If you would like to send in a question for us to answer at the end of the show,

01:26:54   just send out a tweet with the hashtag #AskUpgrade to open the show, #SNLtalk. If you want to find

01:27:00   show notes for this week, you can find them at relay.fm/upgrades/268. Thank you to Zappia,

01:27:06   FreshBooks, and Pingdom for their support of this show. If you want to find Jason online,

01:27:11   he's @jasonl, @imike, @imyke. Jason writes at sixcolors.com and hosts many shows here on relay.fm

01:27:18   and also on The Incomparable as well. And so until next time, say goodbye, Jason Snell.

01:27:24   I draft AirPods.

01:27:26   Okay.

01:27:28   Okay.

01:27:36   [BLANK_AUDIO]