262: The Skyscrapers of Camera Bump City


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:08   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 262. Today's show is brought to you by

00:00:14   Pingdom, Mail Route and Moo. My name is Myke Hurley and I am joined by Jason Snell,

00:00:20   fresh from the Steve Jobs Theatre at Apple Park. Hi Jason Snell. Hi, I still have a cloud of, uh,

00:00:26   Cupertino pollen, I don't know, dust, something all around me. I'm back from the lovely Apple Park

00:00:35   campus and the Steve Jobs Theatre. And I'm here at Mega Office HQ. I've been digesting all the

00:00:41   information possible. Yes, you probably know way more than me. That's how it tends to be. We're

00:00:46   going to do our best to break down the news of today, which was the 2019 iPhone and more

00:00:54   keynote. But I want to start off with a #SnellTalk question. I want to hijack Snell Talk again,

00:01:02   because I just have a very quick question that I want to ask you to get it out of the way.

00:01:06   Overall, what were your thoughts on this event? The general consensus from people that I pay

00:01:12   attention to online is that it was a bad or disappointing event and I want to know what

00:01:16   you think. I think, well, first off, we knew this was going to be an iterative product cycle for

00:01:23   Apple. So I think disappointing. I don't know. I think it was weird that it ended with 20 minutes

00:01:28   to go and I really was expecting there to be kind of a one more thing at the end that they were.

00:01:33   They had saved something because we were so far ahead on time and I just thought there's got to

00:01:37   be something that's not in this. We're in the iPhone already. Like there's got to be something

00:01:41   and it wasn't anything that was the end. So that was that was weird. Um, I was legitimately

00:01:46   surprised by some of the things that happened in the event, which I think is rare and good. And

00:01:53   you know, a lot of it wasn't a surprise though. The bottom line is we know a lot of this stuff.

00:01:58   The main event is the iPhone and the iPhone was in many ways the least interesting update to the

00:02:04   iPhone. Although I think there are interesting aspects to it as a product. It's just it's yet

00:02:07   another in the line of the iPhone 10 essentially. Um, but so for me, I guess what I would say is

00:02:16   I'm intrigued by the idea of getting Apple Arcade out of the way first in that one of the things

00:02:20   that I like the least about any Apple event is interminable game demos. And they I thought it

00:02:25   was interesting that they put them up front instead of in the iPhone section. And I thought,

00:02:29   well, I don't like game demos. And there are three of them here. And it feels like filler. And I find

00:02:35   them boring. I understand why they do them. And they get two reasons to do them now because they

00:02:40   want to show off iOS as a gaming platform and show off their new service. But they are like death.

00:02:47   Uh, the second one is kind of like death. The third one is always just come on, please. And then

00:02:54   in the midst of the iPhone presentation, they did another game demo.

00:02:57   Which was the worst one. It was the most boring game.

00:03:00   Yeah. And that was the moment when my soul briefly left my body. But I don't know. It's an Apple,

00:03:05   it's an Apple product event. The, they aren't the most explosive products. I don't know if I would

00:03:11   go so far as to say it was bad, but it was, I mean, for your iPhone event and Tim was like,

00:03:18   I'm going to dispense with my updates, but then they did a retail update at the end,

00:03:21   which was weird in terms of the sequencing, but I understand why they did it, did it because it

00:03:25   has something to do with Apple watch series five, but that was a little bit strange.

00:03:29   And so you kind of end ended the shape of it was kind of weird. So there's a lot of good stuff in

00:03:34   it. I thought, but it was short surprisingly, which made me feel like you know, when you

00:03:41   think what all got announced, it's more than we expected, but it still felt kind of light

00:03:47   for probably some good reasons. So I don't know. I thought it is not, it was not their best event,

00:03:54   but you know, in the end, Apple is not in the business of putting on a great show every

00:03:59   September for everybody to watch live and be excited about they're in the business of

00:04:03   selling lots of iPhones. So, you know, that's what it's for.

00:04:06   - I actually really enjoyed this event. Like you, I was surprised in a bunch of places. I

00:04:11   thought it was well paced. I liked the variants of the people they had on stage. It brought

00:04:15   different energies. I thought it exceeded my expectations for what this event could have been.

00:04:23   - Well, that's probably true. Other than that, I was hoping that we would get that like a

00:04:29   tile, the tile like tracker as a one more thing. And that would have been a fun new product. And

00:04:34   there was no fun new product, right? It was all just iterations on existing products.

00:04:38   - I would have been kind of annoyed if they would have burst out the one more thing line for a

00:04:42   product like that. - Yeah. Yeah, I suppose so. But I just,

00:04:46   I would have liked to have seen something like that. I'll tell you though, I think this is

00:04:50   telling Myke, when you say it was, it was kind of surprising and that is a good thing. I, we'll go

00:04:57   into our draft results here in a minute, but I wasn't keeping score while I was watching, other

00:05:02   than, other than being crestfallen that we weren't going to get a shot of an Apple store on a slide.

00:05:07   - You shut up. - And, and at the end, I was quite

00:05:12   surprised to see how many things I had gotten right because draft, draft aside, leaving that

00:05:19   aside, my mental model, my, that virtual keynote I built in my head did not conform to this at all.

00:05:25   - No, no. - Also, Johnny Ive was smiling,

00:05:28   but not standing up in my mental keynote and that didn't happen.

00:05:31   - The, the, the big thing that you were talking about the Apple watch, like your big kind of

00:05:36   idea for the Apple watch this year was, I mean, couldn't have been more wrong, but we'll get to

00:05:41   that later on. - Could not have been more wrong.

00:05:43   - Later on. - And I feel like, I feel like one,

00:05:45   one of the things that happens when we predict these things is after a while, we get tired of

00:05:48   predicting things that are favorite features of ours. Cause we're like, you know what? I must just

00:05:52   be wish, wish casting this thing. And then you get down on yourself and you're like, that's never

00:05:56   going to happen. And guess what? One of those things happened this time.

00:06:00   - We quite literally said on the last episode, we give, have given up on that feature,

00:06:05   but we'll get to that later on because we should address the scoring of the draft.

00:06:10   So on our previous episode, in case you didn't catch it, me and Jason, we make our predictions

00:06:16   for Apple keynotes in the forms of drafts. So, you know, we could each make our predictions,

00:06:21   we do it as a competition and only one of us can get a point for, for a specific thing.

00:06:25   Now you beat me again. So you have won the year now unless Apple does three more events between now.

00:06:34   - Seems unlikely. - Yeah, did a year.

00:06:35   Congratulations to you. - Thank you.

00:06:38   - You, you, as is usual with me, I doubled down on a specific area that I thought Apple TV

00:06:44   and Apple TV+ was going to get more time than it did. So, and that kind of destroyed me because

00:06:51   I lost three points on that basically. So in essence, this is how I scored you. I scored you

00:06:56   as either 8.5 on 9.6, a new range of iPhone colors, no 3D touch, Haptic Touch mentioned,

00:07:02   new Apple Watch materials. iPhone XR has a second camera, Apple TV+ clearer launch timeframe,

00:07:10   new iOS features coming later this year, new Apple Watch faces shown, an Apple retail slide

00:07:15   of a photo of a newly opened flagship store. You got all of those points right for me.

00:07:19   - You didn't get a Spinal Tap reference. - Can I, can I drill down on a couple of those now?

00:07:23   - Let me just say what I, what I've struggled to score, which is updated TrueDepth hardware.

00:07:28   Now that was what we, in the interactive scorecard that Zach put in, he's put camera in,

00:07:34   and technically the camera was changed, but we weren't talking about the camera, right?

00:07:38   We were talking about Face ID sensors. - No, okay. So, so first off, that's not

00:07:43   true. I was picking the TrueDepth system, which includes the face, it includes all of that stuff.

00:07:48   - Some kind. - It's the sensor bar. And what they did was

00:07:51   they made a wider angle selfie camera, which totally counts.

00:07:56   - Okay, well this was the point that I didn't score you on, because I figured you'd say that,

00:08:01   and then you'd get your point, so. - So, I wanted to ask you though,

00:08:04   what new iOS feature is coming, quote, later this year?

00:08:08   - The sneak peek deep fusion photo thing. - Oh, was that a later this year? I missed that.

00:08:14   - Yes. - Oh, okay, wow.

00:08:17   - And I think a lot of people wouldn't have scored you that point, but it is an iOS feature. All

00:08:22   right, it wasn't an iOS 13 feature, but that wasn't the pick you made. So, it was just that.

00:08:26   - It was just something will be deferred. And then you're gonna give me the, I mean,

00:08:32   Steven Hackett made the point that the newly opened flagship store, that Apple Fifth Avenue is not a

00:08:38   new store, but it was closed for a long time. - It will be newly opened.

00:08:42   - And they're reopening it. - And it is.

00:08:43   - And it's a photo of a store. - The flagshipy of all flagships.

00:08:46   I give you that one. I give you that one. - All right. And then the tiebreaker was,

00:08:50   there were 10 total color options, so I would have won the tiebreaker too.

00:08:53   - I don't think we, I wouldn't have gone for 10. But anyway, I gave myself wide angle lens on the

00:09:00   iPhone, Apple Arcade pricing and clear a launch timeframe, iPhone XR replacement, what the naming,

00:09:06   iPhone 11 and iPhone Pro, low light mode for photography, iPhone XR keeps its LCD.

00:09:12   I missed out on a demo of the Apple Watch App Store, Disney Plus being mentioned, new Apple TV

00:09:18   Plus content deals being announced and the Apple TV app being mentioned on the platforms.

00:09:22   Didn't score myself a demo of Apple Arcade. I don't think I got it, but everybody else is telling me

00:09:26   that I should have got it. - I think you got it. I had you down for that one.

00:09:29   - All right. So let's say that the official score to the end is 9-6 to you.

00:09:34   - Yep. - Congratulations. You did

00:09:36   really good in this one. - Thank you. Like I said, I had no expectation

00:09:41   of that when I left the room. - We never do.

00:09:43   - I was like, oh no. - We never do.

00:09:44   - Well, not when I left the room, I will be honest because there's usually a really big backup

00:09:48   at the tables where everybody's demoing stuff. And last year I got caught up in the backup and I had

00:09:55   to wait for a little while and all of that. This time when it was all over and the lights were up,

00:10:00   the first thing I did, I loaded Zach's interactive scorecard and scored myself.

00:10:04   - I'm pleased. - And I could not believe,

00:10:06   could not believe that I did as well as I did. Because like I said, my impression was this did

00:10:11   not go at all as I expected. - Once again, I made some bets

00:10:15   on something we thought would be a lock, right? That Apple TV+ would get a ton of time and it kind

00:10:20   of didn't, which is a surprise. But all right. So before we move on, this September, you can join

00:10:25   Real AFM in support of St. Jude's Children's Research Hospital during September in honor

00:10:30   of Childhood Cancer Awareness Month. Worldwide, more than 90% of children with cancer live in

00:10:36   low and middle income countries, many lacking access to adequate diagnosis and treatment,

00:10:40   causing many of them to die before reaching adulthood. Help St. Jude continue to provide

00:10:45   care to kids all over the world by donating today. Go to stjude.org/pineapple. Once again,

00:10:53   that is stjude.org/pineapple. I want to extend my most heartfelt thank you to every Real AFM listener

00:11:02   who has gotten us to 68% of our funding goal already. We have raised over $51,000 for St. Jude,

00:11:10   which is an incredible number. We want to reach $75,000 at least. We are about to spend

00:11:17   about two hours now talking about products that begin at $699 and up into four figures.

00:11:26   If you are going to buy any of those products, throw a little money towards St. Jude. They do

00:11:31   an incredible thing there. Please, I ask you to do that. StJude.org/pineapple and you can do that.

00:11:38   I hope that we hit our goal of $75,000 before September 20th, which is New iPhone Day.

00:11:47   Me and Steven Hackett are going to be streaming live on Twitch, a six-hour podcast-a-thon from

00:11:53   4 to 10 p.m. Eastern from St. Jude's campus in Memphis, Tennessee. Jason's going to be involved.

00:12:00   A new iPhone Day of all things. I will be involved in some way to be determined. I will be

00:12:06   videoing in and who knows what will happen. I think that's the question we're all asking

00:12:13   ourselves is what will happen during this six-hour podcast-a-thon.

00:12:16   Me and Steven have a bunch of ideas of things we want to do. We needed to wait for today to happen

00:12:21   to know exactly what we can and can't do because now it's an iPhone Day. Well, that has opened us

00:12:26   up to having iPhones to unbox on the stream. There's going to be a bunch of stuff. We have

00:12:30   a ton of really wild things. The St. Jude team who we're working with directly, the fundraising arm,

00:12:36   have been really amazing and they have some fantastic ideas. They are indulging me in my

00:12:41   insanity and stupidity. I am very excited. You can find a link in the show notes to a

00:12:46   Twitch event page where you can sign up to be informed about when the event is going live and

00:12:52   also to find out when this event is happening in your local time zone. So we're really excited

00:12:57   about that September 20th. You can't forget that date if you're a fan of Apple and now you have

00:13:02   another reason. I would say an even more important reason to be paying attention on that day.

00:13:06   Depending where you are, you can watch us while you're waiting for your iPhone to come in.

00:13:10   That's right.

00:13:10   We also, a couple of weeks ago, we had a big live show to celebrate Relay FM's fifth anniversary

00:13:17   where we played Family Feud. This event was actually video recorded and a video version of

00:13:22   this podcast has now been posted to the Relay FM YouTube channel. There is a link in the show notes

00:13:27   for that as well. Even if you have heard the Relay FM Family Feud, I recommend going back to watch it.

00:13:32   So it's a lot of fun. Yes, and who knows, perhaps if we had any survey questions left over from that

00:13:39   event, we might find some use for them. Imagine if there was a whole fourth round. What if it was

00:13:46   a six hour block to fill? Perhaps even something as dumb as that might be used. Who knows? Who knows?

00:13:52   Jason, I want to talk about this event by first talking about what was missing. Oh, nice. And I

00:13:59   have broken this down into two categories, the Bloomberg category and the 9to5Mac category.

00:14:03   Rumors that I think a lot of us have considered were definitely true, but are not true because of

00:14:11   either the way that they were being reported or how much they were being reported or who they were

00:14:15   being reported by. So a couple of Bloomberg rumors that we've spoken about in depth. And of course,

00:14:21   both Bloomberg and 9to5 got a lot of things right, but there were things that they got wrong as well.

00:14:25   There was no software feature for altering images after the fact that we have seen. If Apple has it,

00:14:32   they've not demoed it, which seems weird. And this is the idea of taking a photo and then being able

00:14:37   to pan around and bring somebody else in or change the aspect ratio in some way from the regular

00:14:45   wide angle lens to the ultra wide. Right. You remember talking about that?

00:14:49   Yeah, that's sort of true actually. Oh.

00:14:54   If you, it's off by default, but you can turn it on. If you take a picture with the,

00:15:00   what they call the wide angle lens, and then you edit it in the photos app,

00:15:07   well, you have the ability to crop and crop outside and it's actually using data from the ultra wide.

00:15:14   So you can do that. And after a while it gets discarded. If you don't edit it, if you edit it

00:15:18   at all, that data will ride along with the rest of the photos. I think forever.

00:15:23   Thank you very much for that information. Cause that must've been something that I

00:15:26   assume you found out in the hands-on area. It is. I got a lot of information about that.

00:15:31   The camera app. So let me tell you, as somebody who writes a book about photos,

00:15:35   I have that moment where I'm like, I can't write any more about this because they're going to

00:15:38   release new iPhones and there's going to be new photo features and it's going to break everything

00:15:42   that I've already written. And that totally happened because that camera app has all sorts

00:15:47   of things in it that weren't in it before. And some little tweaks in the, in the photos app as

00:15:52   well. But that's one of the examples where by default, I think it shoots the video at both wide

00:15:59   and ultra wide so that you can crop it wider and you can turn on that feature for stills.

00:16:06   It's pretty wacky. That seems like something to demo, but the only thing, I guess the thing that

00:16:13   is the indicator of it is that you do have the, sometimes you see what's on the wide angle,

00:16:19   the ultra wide in the camera app on the sides of the viewfinder, but yes, you can actually get,

00:16:25   you can actually use that stuff and it's, it's compositing it on the fly so that you can pull

00:16:30   in data from outside and crop outside the, uh, the photo area. Then I would like to apologize

00:16:35   to Bloomberg for that, but one that I will bring them out on and Ming-Chi Kuo is in this is too,

00:16:40   no reverse wireless charging. Yeah. So the idea of being able to charge your AirPods from the back of

00:16:44   the phone, not there. This popped up on Twitter yesterday or the day before, and it sounds like

00:16:50   their, their feeling is that this was a late removal, that it didn't work to Apple's, um,

00:16:56   satisfaction. And I wonder if there will be any tear down investigation to see if that there's

00:17:03   actually hardware that was intended to do that in here, but they weren't happy with it. So they

00:17:07   turned it off or like a space where that hardware would have been, you know, like clearly they're

00:17:12   supposed to put a coil here. It sounds like a late, a late removal of that feature. And this

00:17:16   makes me bring the question of what is wrong with Apple and wireless charging. Like they can't get

00:17:24   it right. Like what is going on? Harder than it seems or their standards in this case, it may

00:17:29   simply be that their standards are higher. Yeah. Harder for Apple. Other companies do it. And then

00:17:34   nine to five Mac, no Apple watch sleep tracking. This is a big report from them last week.

00:17:40   That surprises me. That surprises me. And also there is no tile like device. So this idea of

00:17:47   something you would drop in a bag and we'll be able to track track. However, however, there's

00:17:52   probably another, uh, event coming down the road. And, um, so here's, here's the thing that we know

00:18:00   about these new iPhones and you may seem, you may think that's a weird feature. Why are they even

00:18:05   talking about that? There's this new U one chip, which did not come up in the keynote, right? Which

00:18:10   is ultra wide band, which is this new, uh, it's like better than Bluetooth. LE is basically what

00:18:17   it is. And it's got very specific location finding within 10 centimeters, which is what, four inches.

00:18:23   You can find an object directionally, which goes with all those rumors about how fine my

00:18:28   will be able to put like a little balloon right where your lost object is. And that's because

00:18:33   ultra wide band, among other things, like possibly being the future of NFC of possibly being, you

00:18:39   know, how cars, you know, future FOB, uh, you know, a little key fob, uh, car lock things work

00:18:44   like ultra wide band has a lot of interesting uses. Um, and part of the reason is that it allows you

00:18:49   to do this directionality. So like your car doesn't unlock unless you are physically right outside the

00:18:54   door, because it can tell that you are in a particular location within four inches. Um, so

00:19:02   this is in the new iPhones and, and, and what they say is like, Oh, it means that you can do airdrop

00:19:08   and you can see somebody who's closer to you or who you're pointing your phone at. And they become

00:19:13   like your default airdrop. And, and it's like, this is great because the iPhone 11 can find

00:19:18   another iPhone 11 and nothing else. And I will tell you, the secret is, uh, ultra wide band is

00:19:26   going to be in that tracker whenever they ship it. And that's why it's in there. That's, that's why

00:19:31   at least the first, I think there are lots of uses coming up in the future for ultra wide band.

00:19:35   I do think that it's got a, it's a tech with a lot of potential. The problem is it's kind of not for

00:19:40   anything right now. Is they're going to use it for airdrop. That's what Apple have announced so far

00:19:45   on the, on the product pages. It's like a waste of time, but it's going to be, it's also going to be,

00:19:50   uh, for, uh, that tracker if it ever happens. And I would say it's also presumably going to be

00:19:55   for Find My so that if you've got an iPhone that's lost, um, it will work similarly where you will,

00:20:01   you know, people, people will see it. I'm sure it'll find its way into AirPods too. Yeah. I,

00:20:06   I think if this, if this ultra wide band stuff really works as well as it sounds like it does,

00:20:10   I think eventually it'll go anywhere, everywhere because imagine having that level of precision

00:20:15   that any Apple device that's, um, within, you know, a few yards, if not more, you know, 50

00:20:22   feet or something like that. And you can get precise information about where that object is.

00:20:26   So I, I think the U1 chip is the suggestion that there is probably an Apple tracker coming,

00:20:32   but not today. Yep. Not to say it won't happen, but these were the things that I think everybody

00:20:36   had decided were happening today and some of them didn't happen. So there we go. All right. Let's

00:20:42   take our first break and then we're going to talk about the iPhone because we do things in our own

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00:23:01   for their support of this show and Relay FM. All right, let's talk about the iPhone. We have

00:23:07   the tale of two iPhones here, Jason, is the way that I've been thinking about this. And there's

00:23:12   kind of two, two big questions that I want to ask you. And we're going to talk about them and see if

00:23:17   we can try and answer them by the end. These two questions are, is the iPhone 11 truly the

00:23:22   phone for most people? And is the iPhone 11 Pro really pro enough? How much pro

00:23:31   could it be, Myke? Any more pro than that? How much more pro? So these are the two questions

00:23:35   that I have to ask. And we're going to keep those in mind as we go through some stuff here.

00:23:40   I think we have to start with a name though. They did it, Pro Max. iPhone 11 Pro and iPhone 11 Pro Max.

00:23:47   Get pumped with Pro Max. They really did it, didn't they? They did it. And Shilla said,

00:23:53   it's a device pros can count on to get their work done. I wrote that down myself. I don't know what

00:23:59   that means. Yeah, well, I do. I do. It's all right. I think the pro name, like I'm surprised

00:24:09   that they spent as much time on it, that Shiller spent as much time on it as he did. Like he

00:24:13   acknowledged on stage that this is the first iPhone that they've had a pro name on and what

00:24:18   does it mean and what are pros? I think what they showed in their demos is that they, at least one

00:24:25   pro example here is that you can give this to professional photographers and you can get this

00:24:32   to directors and cinematographers and they can do their work on this device. Here's my question

00:24:36   that I have. If you remove what the actual lenses give, how far could those same people have gotten

00:24:44   with the XS Max? Well, I think the argument is that the XS Max was a pro in everything but name

00:24:51   and the X was a pro in everything but name. I think what's really happening here is that

00:24:57   we can overanalyze this. Pro is a word Apple uses to mean high end. And what the marketing pivot

00:25:10   that Shiller is doing on stage there is saying essentially this is a phone so powerful with so

00:25:18   many great features that the pros can use it to do these amazing things and you can have it.

00:25:24   That's the marketing move that's happening there. It's for people who want to pay to get the very

00:25:31   best to feel like you could shoot a movie on this. I'm not personally going to shoot a movie on this

00:25:38   a feature film but you could because it's the best. And that's really the appeal of pro in a

00:25:45   lot of categories is it's code for the best because the pros of course would buy the best. They're

00:25:51   going to pay for the best. We used to have this term that has fallen out of vogue which is fine

00:25:56   called prosumer but the idea of the prosumer is literally it's somebody who's not a pro

00:26:01   but wants to use pro stuff because they want the best and they're willing to pay more than they

00:26:08   probably need to because they want the best that's available. And that's what's going on with the pro

00:26:12   name. Not only is it just coded in everything Apple does that pro means high-end but it's got this

00:26:18   underlying meaning which is that the pros can use this stuff. It's like the best you can buy

00:26:24   and you're not a pro but you can still buy it and feel good that you've got that awesome camera too

00:26:30   even if you never download Filmic Pro and shoot you know in from a steady cam rig a feature film

00:26:39   because you're never going to do that but you could because it's pro hardware.

00:26:43   Will Barron And I don't mean I'm not trying to like

00:26:46   take shots here but like there is also a part of me that thinks like it is also maybe in a way

00:26:54   kind of accepting that the only people that can really easily afford this device at least to buy

00:26:59   it outright are those that can write it off as a tax expense.

00:27:03   David Tompa Maybe but it's again it's it's there's a lot of stuff going on there is it a business

00:27:08   expense is this that this is how you prioritize your income is I want to I want to get the new

00:27:14   hot iPhone every year every other year whatever it is like whoever those buyers are who are coming

00:27:19   for that but you know what I like about this is that it places one of the challenges with the

00:27:25   iPhone 10 is that it placed the spotlight on the thousand dollar and up phone as the definitive

00:27:33   iPhone and the most work Apple did in this event by far was repositioning the cheaper phone.

00:27:45   Will Barron Yes.

00:27:46   David Tompa As the iPhone.

00:27:47   Will Barron Yes.

00:27:47   David Tompa That's what they're doing so so what they what they do is it's two things it's first

00:27:52   off this is the iPhone 11 this is this thing that they never said is the 10 like the 10 R

00:27:59   even though we know that it's basically an updated 10 R no this is the iPhone 11 and it's 699 which

00:28:07   is $50 down from what the 10 R cost. Will Barron They never should have called the iPhone 10 the

00:28:12   iPhone 10 they never should have called it that it should have had a different name and they would

00:28:17   have made things way easier for themselves. David Tompa Should have been the iPhone iPhone Pro even

00:28:20   back then right but I think they just couldn't resist the X. Will Barron They tried to do it in

00:28:23   giving it the Roman numeral. David Tompa You can't resist the X.

00:28:24   Will Barron They tried to I think they were trying to differentiate it in some way by giving it that

00:28:28   Roman numeral but then by calling it 10 they should have just called it iPhone X right like

00:28:33   and then just I think a lot of this stuff would have been easier for them I think a lot of the

00:28:38   anyway but this is it's too much tea reading at that point what you've said there has made me

00:28:44   think like as I've been thinking I think the 11 and the pro they are closer than I would have

00:28:51   thought they would be yeah I mean I was maybe expecting for them to I mean really the screen is

00:28:56   the is can remains the biggest difference between the two because a lot of the internals are the

00:29:01   same yeah I mean the materials are a little different the screen is different and the

00:29:06   third camera which which is the telephoto not the ultra wide huh well that was a big surprise that

00:29:14   was a big is there so but but anyway the the heavy in terms of like overall marketing this is the

00:29:21   heavy lifting that they're doing is they want to say you know the iPhone is not a thousand dollar

00:29:25   phone the iPhone is a seven hundred dollar phone and then it goes up from there and there's a pro

00:29:30   model where you're paying for I wrote it down for our customers who want the most sophisticated tech

00:29:37   that really pushes the limits that's how they're positioning the 11 pro and and then within that

00:29:45   they're they're talking about cameras at the center of all the positioning of it which I think is also

00:29:49   interesting but this is their this is their thing this is their message that they want out there

00:29:54   is these colorful two camera powerful 699 phones are the iPhone and then there's also the high-end

00:30:05   phone Apple's website will tell you it's 399 dollars of a trade-in that's what it says right now

00:30:09   yes and in the retail segment there was a little bit of that like watch the prices go down as you

00:30:14   trade in a phone kind of animation stuff going on but yeah it's uh you know this is what they're

00:30:20   trying to do is redefine what we thought of as the 10r as the mainstream iPhone which I think is a

00:30:26   good move because like people are gonna love that thousand dollar phone and want to buy it but I

00:30:32   think Apple is better served by rewarding them by saying yes it is pro it is very important it's

00:30:38   worth that thousand dollars and by saying oh if you don't want a thousand dollar phone that's fine

00:30:42   the real iPhone 699 yeah you don't need it because this one's yeah brilliant because like a lot of the

00:30:46   internal is the same we'll get to that in a minute I want to talk about how these things look and how

00:30:49   they feel because you have both touched and seen them we are in camera bump city because not only

00:30:57   is the bump bigger on both phones there's multiple levels of bump now even camera bump city has

00:31:02   skyscrapers mike yeah hey here we go camera camera bump city is just off the highway from dongle town

00:31:09   yeah it is it's uh it's so yes it is two levels if you if you run your finger over that camera bump

00:31:17   which don't do it because you've just smudged the lens everything of your camera but um they are

00:31:21   they are slightly up from the glass of the bump they they rise a little bit because I think

00:31:29   there's like a lens that is in there that is not part of the um the glass and and that's why it's

00:31:34   like that in the end you know does it does it matter I think that what they're trying to do

00:31:39   is just sort of say yep that's a bump but yes there there's texture on the on the bump now and

00:31:44   the bump is the big square and it's they've decided I think this is an interesting example

00:31:49   of problem solving on the part of apple's industrial designers which is you know big

00:31:53   sigh like you want to do what three cameras and a flash and a sensor on the back really

00:31:59   okay how do we do and then they're like all right how do we do this and they said you know what we

00:32:05   do it by calling it out we're not going to scatter a bunch of little bumps around the back we're going

00:32:08   to put a big square in the corner and it's going to be part of the identity of these phones and

00:32:13   that's what they've uh that's what they've done and you can like it or not like it but I think

00:32:17   the truth is that when you've got all these kinds of cameras on the back of these phones

00:32:20   the bumps are going to happen and this is how they chose to do it it's an interesting interestingly

00:32:25   the the big square that the the first level of bump is just glass right like it's just a raised

00:32:32   piece of glass it's not it's not like a a different piece or anything like that it's it's just like a

00:32:38   an extra piece of glass that they've it's not and it's not even an extra piece it is the continuing

00:32:43   of the of the glass the glass is obviously coming off with the with the bump there yeah so um the

00:32:50   pro phones is my understanding they have a different feel to the regular phone right because

00:32:56   they pvd coated the glass um I want to know what they feel like how what is the difference in this

00:33:02   texture so they're they're matte and they have a matte feel on the back because it's this it's this

00:33:08   coated glass so it they're they they have a texture it's a you know I don't even know how to describe

00:33:14   it it is you could you could say it's kind of kind of paper-like or slightly tacky I'm not sure

00:33:19   tacky is the word I would use but it is it is a rough texture and the colors are uh are it's

00:33:27   it's a matte finish um the sides are still the same I would say the same as the 10s they're the

00:33:35   stainless steel side so if you're one thinking like oh well maybe this phone will be more uh

00:33:41   able to be held in the hand without it feeling slippery I don't think so because the stainless

00:33:48   ring around it is the same essentially as the 10s it's it's really just the back that has got this

00:33:54   other other thing and I think what you'll see with both of these models is part of what Apple's doing

00:34:01   is learning the lesson we talked about it last week we've talked about it a bunch

00:34:04   learning the lesson honestly oddly of Apple watch bands which is how do you refresh your product

00:34:12   that doesn't actually refresh that often the answer is change the colors why not and so Apple

00:34:18   is is very much saying we're going to change the colors and the look even though the the base model

00:34:24   is not that different from the 10s except for that camera it's it looks totally different like because

00:34:30   you've got the matte back and you've got a different color option and on the 11 you've got

00:34:36   a completely different look with different colors and that is one way you get people to reconsider

00:34:43   if they didn't buy or think about getting a new phone like just like people buying Apple watch

00:34:48   bands more expensive than Apple watch bands and you probably won't do it as often but it's the

00:34:51   same idea it's like oh I sat out I didn't like the 10r colors and then you see the 11 colors you're

00:34:56   like oh you know maybe you like those colors and then you come back in or you want to you want to

00:35:00   change it up I think that's all kind of part of the buying psychology that Apple's preying on here

00:35:05   so let's talk about the colors the 11 comes in white and black green and yellow purple and

00:35:12   product red uh product red white and black they're probably much and much the same I would expect as

00:35:18   the 10r but the green and the yellow they seem to be different shades um and purple yes is new

00:35:26   yeah and I would say that they seem it wasn't green I don't think there was green before because

00:35:31   blue and orange we had before and they've been replaced and and they've been replaced I would

00:35:35   say that um I only I have an orange 10r here um coral best color coral yeah fire we both agree

00:35:43   on that one the the um these colors are more again color is not my best thing but I would say more

00:35:50   more pastel kind of colors they're they're lighter colors they're not the super glary bright colors

00:35:56   of the 10r and again I think that was a choice I think they wanted to provide a little variety

00:36:03   because they went really aggressive with the colors last time yeah but I think it's a shame

00:36:09   the colors of these phones don't excite me in the same way that the 10r's colors did because I felt

00:36:16   like they were making stronger statements the red the red is is a is a bright red because it's a

00:36:21   product red but but yeah the purple and the green and the yellow are a more of a you know easter egg

00:36:26   color yes these are the easter phones yeah then the uh like the 10r that coral 10r which is just

00:36:33   you know orange very orange in a way that these are not so again I think they're just they're

00:36:40   just switching it up in fact so so Jamie my daughter is going off to college in a week

00:36:45   after the new iphones come out is her move-in day and we got to get her a new iphone and I

00:36:49   I anticipated getting her an 11 and what I told her was look at the 11 colors and make a decision

00:36:55   and then and then after the slide came up that said we're also going to keep selling the 10r

00:37:00   I texted her again I said they're also going to keep selling the 10r so if you like those colors

00:37:04   better we can get you a 10r instead and we'll see what she says but I think that's interesting and

00:37:10   actually provides uh I do think some people might choose a 10r over an 11 specifically because they

00:37:16   like the color better the 10r and the 8 are staying around in the lineup yeah interesting

00:37:21   midnight green midnight green now I feel like this is one of those things where a lot of people

00:37:29   going to disagree with me but what what why of every color available to you apple did you choose

00:37:38   this specific color I don't get it I mean you can tell me if I'm wrong can you tell me if I'm wrong

00:37:45   I don't like this uh I don't like the color very much and I don't I cannot get my head around why

00:37:52   of every color this is the color that the apple have chosen to to add I don't know I think they

00:37:58   wanted dark colors a nice navy blue navy blue yeah I know I think I agree my uh I mean you're talking

00:38:08   to a guy whose iphone 10s is in a midnight blue uh leather case right like I really like that dark

00:38:15   blue they must somebody want an argument here and they decided they weren't going to do more than

00:38:19   four it's like we have 10 iphone colors people 10 iphone colors um the they somebody said this is

00:38:26   this is something that we can consider pro uh and we can go with it and that that it's still super

00:38:32   subtle because clearly what they don't want is for the iphone pro models to be um garish I get that I

00:38:40   understand that but I just think that they chose of just to me like a weirder option I will be

00:38:46   sticking with good old gold my good friend gold is a new gold color I don't know what that will mean

00:38:51   but I really like the gold iphone and clear cases which I'm so excited about yeah that came up on I

00:38:57   think ATP uh somebody made just as an aside was like why don't they just they make these beautiful

00:39:02   phones they should offer clear cases for all of them let me tell you Jason it was actually uh it

00:39:07   was on connected because I said it oh was it you yeah like oh I thought it was on last week's

00:39:11   episode well maybe they said it in ATP too I think an ATP ATP the episode you can't listen to because

00:39:16   it's already been spoiled by actual events well I hadn't heard that episode at that point and I also

00:39:21   said it both of you did and I think that that was good and literally that was what was said on stage

00:39:26   it's like you can get clear cases for all of them it's like yeah good job apple yes about time yes

00:39:30   because people want to see your phones yeah I've actually been asking for this for a while like

00:39:34   when I remember when there was the 10r rumor um and they were talking about clear cases like why

00:39:39   can't I get a clear case for my regular iphone because I had this beautiful gold iphone and I

00:39:44   never get to see it never get to see it me too never get to see it so I'm happy about that yeah

00:39:49   um let's talk about the cameras because that is the the big thing that that's the story that's

00:39:55   always is and and in some revisions it's more than others and this is one of the more than others

00:40:01   because it is an s effectively yeah which is a strange thing to think about but that's kind of

00:40:06   where we are um it's another s year uh the it is that it was we mentioned it already big surprise

00:40:14   that they went all in on ultra wide and didn't put telephoto on the 11. I was I honestly hadn't even

00:40:21   considered that they would put anything other than a telephoto lens on this yeah which must mean that

00:40:28   apple are very confident and comfortable with the performance of software portrait photos yeah I

00:40:34   wonder I wonder too so well I don't know because you do have two lenses which means you do have

00:40:40   parallax so I think in fact no they said didn't they they said that you can now do uh portrait

00:40:48   mode for other stuff on the 11 and it's because they still have the parallax even though you're

00:40:52   taking it with the one camera you can use the other camera's data for true depth perception

00:40:58   parallax which means that instead of using machine learning to find a face and say oh this is a person

00:41:03   and I'm going to blur the background they can actually use depth so you can take pictures of

00:41:06   pets and objects and stuff like that so they get and that's interesting right so they they get

00:41:11   the portrait mode feature without needing to do what they do on all these other what they've done

00:41:17   up to now which is use the zoomed camera as your parallax instead they're like no I can actually

00:41:22   just use I can use the wide and and but what I said last week you know when among other things

00:41:30   when I said like you know you you will never go wrong betting on more photo features on new iPhones

00:41:36   because they're important but what I said was the thing that makes me sad when I use the 10r is that

00:41:41   I can't zoom in and I was thinking about that because you still can't on the 11 like zoom in

00:41:47   no it's not there instead they want to go wide and I wonder if there's some thought process there

00:41:51   about how these they know how their phones are used and they may have realized that people

00:41:58   either they made a guess or they have data to suggest that what people really want to do

00:42:04   is back off of photos and take wider shots not zoom in and that if you had to pick one

00:42:12   you pick the wide angle and that gives you a bunch of extra stuff because they've got

00:42:15   a bunch of features that use that ultra wide camera which uh Phil Schiller called super wide

00:42:21   at one point which made me laugh because it's like master of marketing and he got the phrase wrong

00:42:25   one time but ultra wide camera lens you get to do things like you know uh the zooms in uh especially

00:42:34   in the three camera system but even in the two camera system when you're doing video and you

00:42:37   switch between those lenses it it has a whole like zoom back effect and it's all like see there's no

00:42:44   like jerky switching to the other camera it's like you just zoomed out which is wild also do the

00:42:51   smooth effect when going in like going using the telephoto on the pro I think so I think that I

00:42:57   think that's all yes yes I did see that would be nice because I've that's always been a frustration

00:43:02   when trying to use those and it had like that zoom wheel in the camera app which is cool yep it's all

00:43:07   uh they're using software there to sort of smooth out all of those all of those zoom movements so

00:43:13   that's all you know that's all good and then there are also some features with that ultra wide like

00:43:17   on stills and I think this is turned off by default but you know you can do that thing that I said

00:43:22   earlier at the top of the show that was not wrong by Bloomberg which is you can use the ultra wide

00:43:27   data to expand your crop area on a regular photo using the wide camera and that also is just kind

00:43:36   of a magic feature that's hidden in the background we are finally getting an upgrade to the selfie

00:43:42   camera it's going from a seven megapixel lens to 12 megapixels and brings with it 4k video and slow

00:43:49   mo so you can do slow mo selfies apple is going to do their best here to try and create something

00:43:55   called don't even say it don't say it don't say it I'm gonna do it I will be the person to take

00:44:00   that bullet for all of us slofies that's what they want they're gonna create they're gonna they're

00:44:05   gonna put a lot of money and time into this because they're gonna try and make it a thing

00:44:08   fine I think the ad that they've made was very funny I enjoyed that a lot so that's the thing

00:44:15   that they're doing but I am actually just genuinely really happy to finally get a upgrade to the front

00:44:21   facing camera I use the front facing camera a lot and over time become frustrated by it and also

00:44:27   it's a wide angle too right so you can you can zoom in yeah that's that's the big thing is that

00:44:32   by default if you're holding it in vertical it's cropped basically on the sides but if you turn it

00:44:41   to horizontal then it expands and you and now you're using kind of wide mode can I change it

00:44:47   myself if I want to yeah there's also a zoom button on it so if you're holding in portrait

00:44:50   and you just tap the zoom button it zooms back out it's just it's zoomed into sort of classic

00:44:55   width of selfie by default but you can just tap and now you're shooting a wide selfie

00:45:02   night mode yeah they did it they had to do it what two years since google did it

00:45:10   I have nothing to say about this yet other than the images they showed look good the proof is in

00:45:17   the pudding on this one and I will absolutely not give Apple a buy on their ability to just make

00:45:21   this work like I want to wait and see right is that fair like I just feel like this is a

00:45:27   difficult thing to do and I want to see the I want to see the results myself they seem to have put a

00:45:34   lot of effort into it like they did they said we're going to do this we're going to do it right

00:45:38   when you're in a dark environment you actually get like um an icon comes up it actually will show you

00:45:47   how long your exposure is going to be which is really interesting so like you're you're in a

00:45:53   dark environment and it says three seconds and so you know that's like hold the camera for three

00:45:59   seconds and it's going to do a three second exposure so it's giving you feedback right away

00:46:03   I was told that this goes beyond that which is really cool like if you put this on a tripod

00:46:10   like you're shooting a nature shot it knows you're on a tripod because you're not jiggling with your

00:46:16   hands and it will let you roll that shot out for long amounts of time to gather lots of light which

00:46:24   is pretty cool so this is also a I don't know if you ever did that but I would sometimes take shot

00:46:30   night shots where you put a camera on a tripod and you crank it up to 30 seconds or a minute

00:46:34   to open the shutter and you you trigger the shutter and you walk away and it just opens

00:46:38   and sits there drinking in the the light in the in the night this can do that this feature can do

00:46:45   that okay and it knows because of its motion sensors that it's in a stable environment it

00:46:50   knows it's stable and if it's not stable it doesn't offer that feature because you're a

00:46:55   human and you're shaky and you if you can hold it together for three seconds and then obviously

00:47:00   it's it's bracketing with a whole bunch of different photos that it's taking before and

00:47:04   after and it's doing a bunch of for for this night mode to presumably knit that all together

00:47:11   and using machine learning and all those things that google talks about I assume all of that is

00:47:15   happening in this night mode too but it's uh apple it feels very much like somebody in the photo team

00:47:21   at apple is like all right if we're gonna do long exposures in the darkness we're gonna do this

00:47:25   right so there's a lot of of depth okay going on here which I think is interesting like I have a

00:47:30   lot of hope now in what you're telling me but like I still know that there is especially for the

00:47:35   quick shots like there's a lot of machine learning that has to go on and for sure to get that right

00:47:41   and to get it to their samples look great yeah but then you do it yourself and you're

00:47:45   and you say oh no this is terrible right like the face there's you can see the room but the person

00:47:49   is all smudged in the face or whatever and you know they they are trying very hard I actually

00:47:54   really like that when they were showing off the pro sample images which were all credited by name

00:47:59   and that stuff which I thought was an interesting thing after all that brouhaha when they held the

00:48:03   shot on iphone campaign and now they're creating people by name also reinforces the pro thing right

00:48:07   like these are these are the pros we had the pros shoot because it had all like the iso and all that

00:48:12   in the corner it's like okay yeah stop yes we get it we get it um but uh what I liked is that that

00:48:18   Phil kind of said like and this is what you can get if you put it in the hands of a professional

00:48:22   and I actually kind of liked that because it was like look you can it is possible to do this but

00:48:27   you're not going to get this right like it needs you can get close to it you have a better chance

00:48:34   than ever getting an image that looks like this but it takes someone knows what they're doing to

00:48:39   really get it get out of it we can yeah right cinematic stabilization so better stabilization

00:48:45   in video um I'm I'm all of this sounds amazing for me personally I would I am willing to upgrade my

00:48:54   phone to get this camera stuff because it is a lot of really interesting stuff the ultra wide

00:48:59   lens is something I've wanted for a while night mode is something I wanted for a while a better

00:49:03   uh selfie camera like so for me like I will be happy with this phone upgrade for all of this

00:49:09   but what I'm wondering is can apple take back the crown as the camera phone or are they just

00:49:15   going to get to parity now that's the question and it takes time to see yeah yeah we'll have to see

00:49:21   because it really is literally going to be what is the what do these look like when they're put in

00:49:26   side by side all the reviewers will be doing that right they'll be taking the other great smartphone

00:49:32   cameras and comparing them because again it's like one of those things where I will pay attention to

00:49:37   the people that I know that review these things that are in the apple world and they'll say like

00:49:41   this is the best iphone camera ever and I'll be like I'll be like for me personally brilliant

00:49:44   I'm happy with that but then I'll pay attention to the people that are in the android world as well

00:49:48   and see like okay so this is the best iphone but how does it stack up against xyz especially

00:49:55   considering there's a pixel on the horizon and they're putting multiple lenses in it

00:50:00   so right so like I'm intrigued what can google do so we'll see yeah and the other question is

00:50:06   is there anybody out there who realistically is going to buy a smartphone based entirely on camera

00:50:11   quality I would say no but if there's somebody out there who it it's not the only thing I guess what

00:50:21   I'm saying is apple doesn't really have to have the best night mode and the best photos but it

00:50:27   needs to have among the best because if it's seen it's seen if it's seen as a laggard as you know

00:50:34   well you can get an iphone but your photos aren't going to be as good that's bad so I feel like

00:50:40   they are setting themselves up to not be seen as that and then the question is going to be

00:50:45   are they going to go in the lead and then you know are they going to be caught but are they going to

00:50:50   be in the conversation I think that's all they really need to do I'm sure they would like to win

00:50:54   but I think all they really need to do is be in the conversation with some of the photo stuff

00:50:57   that's rolled out over the last year year and a half they have been kind of put to shame and so

00:51:03   this is this is major in them probably for the last year and a half making a real if not longer

00:51:11   making a real effort to invest in this stuff so that they could be back in that conversation as

00:51:17   among the best cameras and there was this whole thing right this deep fusion thing we'll get

00:51:25   that's like something else that's coming I don't I didn't really understand what they were showing me

00:51:32   but for sure they seemed excited yes he did he told me I couldn't take that picture before I mean

00:51:38   I don't know what that was I don't know what I was seeing uh I think that I you know what I'm

00:51:44   gonna wait for I'm gonna wait for Matthew Panzareno to tell me because I'm sure he will be the person

00:51:48   to get this story sure I will wait for for Panzer to tell me why this is good uh and then we'll find

00:51:55   it later on face ID is 30 faster and usable at more angles two thumbs up great to hear that um

00:52:02   I haven't been able to find out yet Jason if you can use it in multiple orientations yeah I don't

00:52:08   know my guess is not because you can't really you don't really unlock the phone in multiple

00:52:13   orientations so my guess is not but I don't know more battery all around one hour extra for the 11

00:52:21   which already had the best battery of any iPhone yeah four hours for the pro five hours for the

00:52:28   pro max yeah wow yeah this is um this is the single largest increase in battery life in the

00:52:36   history of the iPhone really I mean for the iPhone was always like a you know the the amount of time

00:52:45   now you're making me question myself but not like to go up four hours like Apple's never been like

00:52:50   yeah this one's four hours more battery than the last one of the of its kind it's like no no that's

00:52:55   never because usually the the life of these things was measured in four hours or eight hours or 10

00:52:59   hours or something like that so to take this four or five hour jump in the same shape and size um

00:53:05   and what that says to me is processor right what that says to me is the even though they they had

00:53:13   their usual uh 20 faster performance cores 20 faster efficiency cores 20 faster gpu

00:53:21   in the a13 bionic um what it says to me is that efficiency low power design and they talked about

00:53:30   it briefly in a I thought was characterized very good on twitter by um Matthew Panzareno he did he

00:53:38   did a good job uh characterize it very well which is nobody cares about 8.5 billion transistors

00:53:43   that's just Apple dunking on their competition in chip design and they wanted to say seven

00:53:48   nanomere they wanted to say it so they could say yeah because no one else has said it so they want

00:53:52   to say it and and consumers don't care but the people who watch chip design that was Apple

00:53:57   dunking on them because the truth is and they put it up there I've written about it a bunch

00:54:01   and some of my tom's guide pieces about it like the whole wave of android phones that comes out

00:54:06   after the iphone none of them measure up to the current iphone's processor in fact we the last two

00:54:12   years it's been very clear like by the time the new iphone is about to come out there's still no

00:54:17   android phone that's faster than the iphone from last year and then they do a new iphone and it

00:54:23   puts the bar even higher and Apple did the slides this year but it's it's absolutely been true the

00:54:28   last couple of years that Apple is so far ahead on the power of their chips and here what we're

00:54:34   seeing is not only did they keep raising the bar in terms of speed but they seem to have focused a

00:54:40   lot on doing the low power design stuff and so you may not care about the 8.5 billion transistors and

00:54:47   tailoring them on their seven nanometer processes etc etc I think what you really care about is

00:54:53   the pro the iphone 11 pro is four hours more battery life than the 10s and that the pro max

00:55:01   has five hours more battery life than the 10s max that is what you care about and that's that's big

00:55:09   and even at the 11 which was already you know the 10r like you said and they they set it on stage

00:55:16   the most battery life in an iphone ever and this one is an hour again more

00:55:21   I was as someone who's recently started using the battery case more and more I was concerned because

00:55:28   they never had the battery cases available immediately I'm not concerned anymore five

00:55:32   hours will probably do me um so I asked you the question about is like what makes it a pro so the

00:55:40   camera system right the three in total there being a new ui in the camera app for the pros and one of

00:55:45   those things but they've also called the screen now the super retina xdr so they're borrowing from

00:55:51   the pro display right um yeah and one of the interesting choice one of the reasons that apple

00:55:56   saying this is because of the fact that they have um the kind of like adaptive brightness like stuff

00:56:02   so the screen will go up to 800 nits for uh in harsh light so in like the sunlight and 1200 for

00:56:09   hdr content so they can boost it when needed I don't know how nits compares to my usage of the

00:56:17   phone honestly but that sounds interesting I think that they might be pushing it a little bit to call

00:56:22   it the xdr but they're doing that um and it has a 458 ppi uh which is the highest in any apple

00:56:30   product so there's some other things that make it pro I guess uh the 11 starts at 699 the pro

00:56:38   at 999 and the pro max at 1099 and pre-orders start on friday at a new time which is 5 a.m pacific

00:56:44   so I want to go back to my initial questions for you I'll ask you the second one first in your mind

00:56:51   is the iphone 11 pro pro enough yeah I mean well I would I would turn that around and say

00:56:58   um that's the wrong question and what really the question is is um is it positioning it properly as

00:57:07   a high-end model and making the 11 the standard model and in that I say uh yes that's what that's

00:57:15   what they set out to do and they added some features on the pro models including the oled

00:57:21   screen with the pro display xdr oled whatever you know like there's stuff there to explain why it's

00:57:28   at the cutting edge and why it costs more and and the third camera and that's you know that they

00:57:34   differentiate they continue to be differentiated in a way that makes you feel like this is the pro

00:57:39   model but they also kind of got it clear of the idea that that's the real iphone and that they're

00:57:44   saying no this one down here is the real iphone I think you've answered both of my questions really

00:57:50   and I am in agreement with you right I think that the 11 the 11 really does feel like much more of

00:57:56   the position of this is the phone that most people should buy than the 10r was because it was still a

00:58:01   little bit like there was a bit of a question around that still I think it's like all right

00:58:04   yeah but they released it at a different time and all that kind of stuff I want to follow up with

00:58:09   uh really quickly with something that happened in the chat room that it makes a good point that was

00:58:13   not something I did not have my calipers with me at apple park so I wasn't able to measure the phones

00:58:18   but the iphone 11 pro is thicker by four tenths of a millimeter which means there's probably more

00:58:30   battery in there too and that's another reason that they were able to go up four or five hours

00:58:34   on battery is that they are actually a little bit thicker do you know why it's thicker oh do you

00:58:39   have any sense of why that is interesting interesting I mean obviously they wouldn't

00:58:46   say that on the stage unless I mean I assume that's not measuring the the bump housing

00:58:51   you would assume that they're not measuring the bump but who knows who knows yeah the iphone 10s max

00:58:56   was 0.3 inches thick and the uh pro max is 0.32 inches thick yeah yep just a little bit but you

00:59:07   know on that surface area that can matter a lot and that explains why the 10r sorry the 11 doesn't

00:59:13   have as much of a boost over the 10r even though it also got that power saving processor is because

00:59:19   it didn't I don't believe it got thicker yeah so we ended the iphone with the retail update

00:59:25   which seemed strange initially it's like why is this happening now it's like oh because they can

00:59:31   show you how cheap the phone can be if you trade in I see I had I had Deidre O'Brien on my uh on

00:59:37   stage on our draft list and we didn't pick it and then there it was and I was kind of kicking myself

00:59:41   I was like ah she did make it on stage um and that was uh and you know they staffed these events with

00:59:47   apple retail people and that's that was a funny thing I saw her going through the hands-on area

00:59:52   afterward and she's stopping by every single one of those people in the bright colored shirts who

00:59:56   are there from her group from retail and thanking them and saying hi and remembering some of them

01:00:01   from her visiting their stores and stuff which I thought was actually pretty cool to see afterward

01:00:06   but um I think the real yeah yeah the real reasons the retail update had to come at the end is one

01:00:11   they used it to show off those trade-in prices and two they did a thing with the apple watch that's

01:00:16   a little different and so they they had to wait for the products to be announced before they could

01:00:20   talk about how they would be done in stores all right today's episode is also brought to you in

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01:02:11   moo for their support of this show and all of relay fm all right let's talk about services

01:02:18   before we get onto the apple watch apple arcade and apple tv plus so I think we can move through

01:02:25   these pretty quickly actually so apple arcade they brought out three large publishers to talk

01:02:31   about games that they're working on capcom konami and anapuna interactive they had some interesting

01:02:37   demos they had a big slide at the end with loads of companies that I know in the video gaming

01:02:42   industry so it's really exciting to see that 100 games are coming to the service at first

01:02:47   I don't know if it's 100 like immediately but like there will be 100 and this is quote the largest

01:02:55   launch catalog of any game service which was this was presented by an my tie who she was at wwdc she

01:03:04   presented um for apple arcade as well she's a good person to follow on twitter because she retweets a

01:03:10   lot of the games a lot so good person to follow um it is coming to the iphone on the 19th the ipad

01:03:18   on the 30th and october for the mac the reason is because that's when ios 13 is hitting each of those

01:03:24   products well that's when the next software updates are hitting each of those products

01:03:28   so the iphone's the 19th ipad os is the 30th of september and then the mac is in october

01:03:35   it is 4.99 a month of a one month free trial i will stand by what i said before um that the

01:03:41   pricing of apple arcade feels like the best value for money on any apple service lol apple news

01:03:48   apple arcade to me is the best new service that apple is introducing with the best chance of

01:03:54   success because it is going to a position where they're strong and it makes them stronger and in

01:04:02   terms of a value for for people i think five dollars a month is a pretty good value for 100

01:04:07   games and we'll see how many are good and we'll see how many they roll on i had somebody on

01:04:12   twitter say i can i can get uh i can get a humble bundle for ten dollars and play a couple of good

01:04:18   games it's like good games really good games but i mean the truth is are the games going to be good

01:04:23   we'll see i think they got to have variety because different people will have different opinions

01:04:27   about what the good games are but five dollars a month to get a whole bunch of exclusive games

01:04:32   that do not nickel and dime you for gems or coins or anything like that i think like sign me up sign

01:04:39   me up because uh that that is yes i want that that is this is the solution to the problem of all the

01:04:45   crappy games that are in the app store which is if somebody had come to you and said i gave you

01:04:50   five dollars a month if i took five dollars a month from you but in exchange i made it the

01:04:55   games in the app store were no longer crappy well yes yes let's do that how does that work and the

01:05:02   answer is it's apple arcade so i'm looking forward to trying it i hope the games are good because

01:05:06   that is how it will ever die but i'm very positive about it um and uh and the demos although game

01:05:13   demos make me want to go to sleep um they were they were good as demos go uh apple tv plus we

01:05:21   got to see the first trailer of sea what did you think of the sea trailer i think what i said on

01:05:26   twitter which is just what was passing through my mind at the time was boy this is a high concept

01:05:35   show like the highest of high concepts right the high concept is you know super easy big picture

01:05:42   idea and it's in the future after an apocalypse no human being can see but then two children are

01:05:52   born who can see and thus begins a battle a conflict between various warring factions over

01:05:59   the possession of these children with this amazing power of sight and i thought and there's then

01:06:04   things blow up and jason mimoa is there and you know it looked like a million bucks which is good

01:06:10   because it cost way more than a million bucks yeah it looked like 12 million an episode um and

01:06:18   my inner tv critic slash watcher person said this premise is so far out and the way it's described

01:06:33   it's like is this show really gonna be all but two actors acting blind all the time because that

01:06:44   could get really weird really fast and i think tim cook was like we've consulted with uh blind

01:06:50   people about this and you know it's it's not going to be offensive it's like okay great it's still

01:06:54   we'll we'll see i think it's a i think it's a uh it's a it's a high concept it's an interesting

01:07:02   choice um my odds of them pulling it off i would say are not not not increased by seeing the

01:07:11   trailer it actually makes me a little more skeptical the money is clearly there on screen

01:07:15   but the premise itself is so kind of uh wacky even more wacky than i thought that um i'm yeah i'm

01:07:25   skeptical i guess i would say i think i'm a little bit more positive than you i thought it looked

01:07:29   really cool um i'm excited about it it looks cool i just i'm not sure that the story possibilities

01:07:35   are going to be as solid but yeah like i said the money is on the screen it looks amazing

01:07:39   i mean if what they're going for is we want to make something that looks a little bit like game

01:07:46   of thrones i guess they did that right like visually right it's like big and bold and there's

01:07:53   lots of people running each other yep um apple tv plus unveils on november 1st i found out some

01:08:01   details um there will be more shows added every month after the initial slate which is the shows

01:08:07   that they put on on screen most shows will be launching with the first three episodes and then

01:08:13   there will be one episode a week after that some will launch at the entire season but the way that

01:08:19   they're going to do most of their stuff is with three episodes and then one episode a week so you

01:08:23   can do a little a little binge to see if you like it and then and then you can uh keep coming back

01:08:28   for more yeah and i like that they said um available in over 100 countries so however they roll it out

01:08:34   and you know we've seen various reports about how they would roll that out the the goal is that

01:08:39   unlike disney which is going to do a slower rollout that apple they want this available so

01:08:45   over 100 countries and uh that's uh that's good november 1st you know i'm a little disappointed

01:08:51   i was hoping that they would be this was the great debate of by november and um mark german

01:08:57   i think saying november and the answer is yeah pretty much those two things agreed on the one

01:09:01   date the venn diagram there is november 1st that's when it is so i was hoping for sooner than that

01:09:07   but uh we'll get a november 1st fair enough that's not none of this is the most interesting thing to

01:09:12   be announced about apple tv plus today 499 a month yeah i mean disney disney kind of made that

01:09:22   necessary um and

01:09:26   so they did it and and good i think they had to do that i think the moment in the keynote that

01:09:33   i'm sitting there watching is that they said 499 a month and it says below family subscription i

01:09:38   thought what does that mean what other kind of subscription could there be which leads us to

01:09:43   the wacky thing that i did not expect partially because we go back and forth about this what if

01:09:52   apple gave certain things away with purchases of hardware because it's a way to roll your services

01:09:57   revenue into hardware sales and it blah blah blah um and they did it they finally did it for this

01:10:03   product of all the products so if you buy a device any apple device a phone an ipad a mac a mac or

01:10:11   an apple tv you get a year of apple tv plus for free this has answered the question that i have

01:10:20   been posing right for months is there's no way they could just charge for this

01:10:25   and get around it because yep so many of their customers will not pay for it for a year now i

01:10:33   will get i will guess that that will be on the apple id that's associated with the purchase

01:10:41   yeah that'll get come to that which is why there's this family thing it's probably for a single user

01:10:46   a single stream so it's probably got a lot of limits that are going to make people who've got

01:10:52   a bunch of different watchers in their household choose to pay for 499 for it because then you get

01:11:00   the family plan which is multiple streams etc etc but it does fulfill that need um for all devices

01:11:07   which i get why it's all devices i think that's i think that's good um i had been thinking for a

01:11:12   while that one of the possibilities was that apple tv would come bundled with it that you'd get it

01:11:18   with an apple tv purchase and that totally did happen but it turns out you can just buy anything

01:11:23   and you'll get it i i did have that moment where i thought what if they make it like

01:11:27   you get it for this device so it's like hey you bought a new iphone you can watch our tv shows on

01:11:32   that iphone if you want and it on any other device but they won't do that they'll tie it to the apple

01:11:37   id so from apple's uh website one subscription per family sharing group offer is valid for three

01:11:45   months after eligible device activation from the first of november plan automatically renews until

01:11:51   cancelled uh-huh okay so there we go so that so the free plan is for the family group too

01:11:57   one subscription per family sharing group that's i don't know what that means that's what it says

01:12:03   okay interesting well i guess we'll find out more details about it it probably means that

01:12:10   you can't you know keep buying devices and get more years of it that it's really just the one

01:12:16   and then it auto renews and it'll be interesting to see if they turn that off if that's really just

01:12:21   for this year's models and that next year that's no longer an offer and they want you to pay

01:12:25   or maybe it's maybe it's a single time right maybe it's a single thing for an apple id so you can get

01:12:30   it this year but then you don't get it next year because you already got their one year

01:12:33   bonus who knows i think this is one time this year only that's how i reckon it's going to work

01:12:39   we'll see let's talk about the apple watch because this was a shocker we were thinking

01:12:44   small revision small revision always on retina display yeah wow okay yes this this is the thing

01:12:51   that was beaten out of us it was like well we could keep on talking about the always on display

01:12:55   but it's never going to happen so we're not going to even pick it we're going to stop looking foolish

01:13:00   by picking an always on display feature that's never going to happen and here it is so tell me

01:13:07   how does it look how does it work uh you know well you saw it in the screen i don't have anything

01:13:13   more beyond what you saw they had the watches around but they're all they're they look like

01:13:17   watches it it the way it works is that this new it's almost it's going to sound weird but it's

01:13:23   basically a pro motion display on the apple watch in the sense that it has a variable frame rate

01:13:29   and what they do when it's not active so if you if you think about when the apple watch currently

01:13:37   lights up and then goes dark lights up mode is the same as it was goes dark is now this other mode

01:13:45   and what they do is they crank down the brightness of the display which since it's oled saves a lot of

01:13:52   power and it's got a light sensor so it will crank it down even more when it's dark if you're outside

01:14:00   they won't crank it down quite as much because you are supposed to be able to see it that's the point

01:14:03   of the always on display and they crank down the frame rate the refresh rate on the on the display

01:14:11   to as low they said as one hertz so one update a second um i i'd imagine i don't i don't know this

01:14:21   one um whether the second hands are gone in this mode or whether the second hands move like tick

01:14:31   by the second instead of smoothly animate but um it does mean that at one refresh a second

01:14:39   they can still update your complications and things like that the apple website shows some

01:14:44   demos of it working right and one of the uh what is the infograph modular that's got the watch face

01:14:51   on it yep when it's in the dimmed version there is no second hand on that watch face

01:14:58   yeah and that's that's a reasonable way to do it and i always thought when we were complaining

01:15:02   about this feature over the last three years mike uh that was one of the things that i would always

01:15:06   sacrifice is like just make the second hand disappear i don't need the second hand i just

01:15:11   want it to display and you know what they didn't do is implement this as a um you know really crappy

01:15:17   non-animated thing and then when you turn it it blinks to life with this much more uh

01:15:26   with a different watch face that's not what it is it's the same it's your watch face but it's

01:15:30   tweaked somehow it's it can drop some stuff out like something that's live and animating like a

01:15:36   second hand sweeping across um but you know i went so here's a funny thing this is the one where i

01:15:43   speculated i don't know if they're even going to do a series five i mean they'll probably will

01:15:47   because why not but what are they going to do like and again part of that is is both of us saying

01:15:52   well i mean they're not going to give us anything big like always on watch face so what are they

01:15:57   going to do and the answer is that's exactly what they did it took the apple watch for me for being

01:16:02   like a footnote of this event to being legitimately i think the biggest upgrade of any product in this

01:16:08   event and makes me as a series 4 user go oh i really really want the always on watch face i

01:16:16   really do this is this is like the cellular connectivity this is one of those things that from

01:16:24   moment one of the apple watch being announced five years ago we had on the list of well eventually

01:16:30   it has to do this and i didn't expect them to check it off this year after the last two years

01:16:35   them not checking it off but they finally they finally did it and it turns out what they felt

01:16:40   they needed to do in order to do this was design a screen that could be cranked down to one frame

01:16:45   per second and you know do all this other stuff to maximize that battery life so that they could they

01:16:51   could keep it running but i think it's huge i think i think having they they elaborated on it

01:16:57   very well i thought i don't know what you think about this i know your your relationship with the

01:17:01   apple watch is kind of complicated but i thought that little bit where they explained all the

01:17:05   reasons you might actually want an always on watch face that up till now for the last five years we

01:17:10   haven't needed but now we totally need it right because it's apple that's what they do but i

01:17:13   thought that was very good in them because i've thought about this too how do you describe like

01:17:18   why you would want an always on watch face and they said you know you're in a meeting and you

01:17:22   don't want to make a big thing about shaking your wrist or you're working out and you can't you know

01:17:28   rotating around all of these reasons why you don't want to be shaking your your your apple watch in

01:17:33   order to wake it up and they're absolutely right that has always been the issue with the apple

01:17:39   watch and and this my um we had dinner with some friends not too long ago and and my wife uh made

01:17:48   this point too she was she she said it's dumb like i wanna i wanna just have it on like for her that

01:17:55   was like always the feature that was missing from the apple watch and it's it's true so now it's not

01:18:00   and you gotta buy a new apple watch to get it unfortunately but i'm glad that they did it turns

01:18:06   out there wasn't a compass in the apple watch it's one of those things where it's like oh

01:18:10   yeah i know now you're telling me i know that there wasn't one but i'm surprised by that they

01:18:16   literally put boy scouts in their in their video that made me laugh like of course who needs a

01:18:22   compass boy scouts but being able to use that when when using the map for walking directions

01:18:27   is really useful sure i thought they spent too much time on compass they did they did

01:18:32   you know compass whatever compass titanium and ceramic have been added as expected um did you

01:18:38   see these they're both edition i did not get a good look at either i think it's interesting the

01:18:42   titanium is basically priced the same as the fancier stainless and not priced like the ceramic

01:18:49   ceramic is is an addition priced as such it's like 1200 or 1400 or something like that but the um the

01:18:55   titanium is in that seven or eight hundred dollar range of of just a a pricey stainless model um

01:19:00   which i was a little surprised by and that's that's nice but i did not get to see those close-up

01:19:04   and uh there is an s5 chip inside wasn't mentioned on stage but apparently is for power saving stuff

01:19:11   and like to help make this always on render display works it does have a different chip inside but

01:19:17   there isn't enough difference that they called it out and uh you can now choose whatever case

01:19:23   and strap you want so like the the apple watch case being what it's made out of certain material

01:19:28   and something called apple watch studio yeah and this is why the retail stuff got pushed to the

01:19:33   end is really this and i don't know the details of how it'll work in the stores but i will tell you

01:19:38   on on um the website what it really means is you can go into apple watch studio and rather than

01:19:45   trying to sell you like this watch that comes with this band and this watch that comes with this band

01:19:50   you can also just say pick your watch body material and color pick your band

01:19:57   buy which is i think a much better way to sell the apple watch is to is to pick any band and any

01:20:06   watch and then get it and i imagine what this means practically in the store and may even mean

01:20:12   practically for all online orders i don't know if they're going to do any bundles but my gut feeling

01:20:17   is what this means is the apple watch is going to ship in a box without a band and then you'll also

01:20:21   get a band that's how the last one shipped remember you would get that little package

01:20:26   that you opened and it had the it was like two different boxes and they were like right together

01:20:31   with some paper but that was just how they shipped and i guess that was a test for this yeah and i

01:20:37   like it um i don't know whether they'll let you buy an apple watch without any band which if you've

01:20:42   already got bands you could save a little bit of money but i think i think you need to buy it with

01:20:45   a band they do want that but they're what they seem to have done is broken apart the idea that

01:20:51   you're gonna have a bundle and that that's good because sometimes you get you get this watch and

01:20:55   you're like i guess i'll just pick this cheap band that i don't like because you've got another band

01:20:59   that you want um and you may still have to do that but what's better is if you're like oh i can just

01:21:04   buy the watch with the band i want and not buy the watch with a dumb band and buy the band you want

01:21:09   that's dumb so uh they seem this is more complexity in probably in apple watch distribution but a way

01:21:18   better experience so i think that's i think it's really smart watch os 6 is coming on september

01:21:24   19th for series 3 and above later this fall for older devices i wonder if they'll start doing this

01:21:31   for other products too who knows i mean i guess they already did it for the i the iphone and the

01:21:36   ipad right it's ios 13 is coming uh on the september 19th for the iphone yeah there's a there's a later

01:21:45   maybe for next week about yeah what on earth is going on uh with apple software releases this

01:21:53   year because they are all over the place um but yeah that's that's when it's coming out and they're

01:21:59   keeping the series 3 around series 4 is gone series 3 is sticking around yeah it's another

01:22:04   decision that they have made once before at least which is you know you kind of go two back to the

01:22:09   one that not only does that give you your differentiation but it lets them take that one and really

01:22:14   aggressively price it and the the new um the new price is really good so i think that's great yep

01:22:23   all right let's take our final break we'll talk about ipad and then do some hashtag ask upgrade

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01:23:38   of this show and relay fm so that was an ipad segment which was a surprise i think there have

01:23:47   been rumors of a new ipad but i don't think realistically anyone really considered that it

01:23:53   was going to be a part of this event that they would shuffle it off to an october event but the

01:23:57   9.7 inch ipad has been replaced with a 10.2 inch ipad that has a smart connector it's 329 dollars

01:24:05   299 dollars for education yeah it's the it's the it's filling that same price and it's very similar

01:24:11   to the old one the big change being it's got a slightly bit larger screen it's physically more

01:24:16   or less the size of the ipad air now which means that it's got a smart connector on it for the

01:24:21   first time which means it can use the same keyboard that the ipad air uses which is which one is that

01:24:30   is that the is that the old 10.5 inch ipad pro keyboard as well so i i believe that there is

01:24:42   a listing yeah so it says it's a new product but it is the smart keyboard for ipad seventh generation

01:24:49   and ipad air third generation but it is listed as new on the website but i don't think it is new i

01:24:55   think that it's been updated to just change the name right right so the idea here is they made it

01:25:00   a shape because they wanted to put smart connector on it but there were no smart keyboards being made

01:25:04   that fit it so this one is the shape and size of the ipad air more or less with a smart connector

01:25:11   on the side so it can use the previous generation smart keyboard just like the ipad air can it can

01:25:17   use the apple pencil which the previous ipad could also use that first generation apple pencil so they

01:25:22   just rolled the keyboard feature in there which i thought was interesting because then they talked

01:25:25   about like comparing it to to pc laptops and stuff like that so even the 329 ipad now can do that

01:25:32   whole story that we used to consider the ipad pro a few years ago of a smart keyboard and apple

01:25:38   pencil yeah there's some questions about the ipad line now but the good thing is uh it's good this

01:25:46   is good for the ipad line prime placement in the best keynote and 329 for that that 329 model which

01:25:51   they set on stages their best-selling ipad which i don't doubt for that price and it's and it's

01:25:57   got you know it's got a good screen and it's got apple pencil support and it's going to keep it like

01:26:01   i think there's a real question of like why the ipad air exists because it's better for a little

01:26:08   bit more but it's just so weird because it's they're now the same size i don't know whether

01:26:13   that means they're going to reposition the ipad air or whether it's just going to vanish at some

01:26:17   point but um there's some weird things still going on with the ipad line but uh but it's good like

01:26:23   this is their most important thing they last updated this product at that chicago event last

01:26:29   year right so i think this is uh to do this seventh generation version like it's great it is

01:26:35   it's the most popular product for a reason and they revved it going into the holidays and they've

01:26:40   got a keyboard story for it that's great having that smart keyboard as an option is fantastic i

01:26:45   mean as a percentage of the price of the ipad that smart keyboard is expensive but uh it's good that

01:26:53   they've got that smart connector and they can tell that story if they want what what else what else

01:26:58   is there i mean ipad os is coming late we should mention that like oh yes again it's coming late

01:27:03   um end of the month it's going to be 13.1 yeah it's coming at the end of the month yeah that's

01:27:11   fine that's fine it's just funny that like if you're an ipad user and you want to get those

01:27:15   updates the answer is you can just get get on the beta and get it but if you want to wait for the

01:27:19   final final you will have to wait later than iphone users and that's just how it has to be i think

01:27:24   that's a good move because yeah the betas it's like yeah take your time it's good good more betas

01:27:32   good keep taking your time apple joe wants to know do you believe that apple's next event thank you

01:27:39   for the lasers will be all pro focus given that the mac pro is still due to come out later this year

01:27:44   the consumer ipad is now out of the way and all of the rumors of macbook pros and new ipad pros

01:27:50   joe 100 that's what i think the next event will be i think that there will be an event in october

01:27:56   i think they may actually use it to launch um catalina in fact but it makes sense we got this

01:28:03   rumor of the impending 16 inch macbook pro they could do an ipad pro update that is minor but

01:28:11   still like throw on an a13x processor to keep it up to speed with the latest chips yeah it might be

01:28:19   like pretty much the same week that ipad os ships yeah it could be i mean they just said october or

01:28:26   well no they that's the ipad os is shipping late september it ships monday september 30th for all

01:28:32   we know they could be doing an event like in three or four weeks last last year that's that's awfully

01:28:38   fast last year they did uh right before halloween so but sometime in october i feel like that kind

01:28:43   of makes sense um throw in the mac pro like they could ship it or they could give a ship date and

01:28:51   final pricing and more details and there there is more than enough stuff that is rumored or seems

01:28:58   logical that they would have in the pipeline for them to do that event so i would say i think that

01:29:06   apple's next event will be a pro focused thing here's here's the problem um you could argue that

01:29:15   the ipad today is a weird placement because if they have other ipads why would they not have

01:29:21   announced them together the argument would be this is the mainstream consumer product launch

01:29:25   and that product is ready to go and why not give it a give it a kick um and then the other thing

01:29:30   i would say is joe's question was apple's next event and i think that apple's next event maybe

01:29:36   it happens in october maybe it doesn't maybe happens in march maybe happens in february it

01:29:41   doesn't necessarily happen have to happen in october however if i had to guess today i would

01:29:45   guess that that is there will be a pro hardware event and it will be in october and it will be

01:29:52   new mac laptop more mac pro details ipad pro updates and uh probably catalina maybe a display

01:30:01   and display yeah well i mean yes there's that display with a thousand dollar uh stand and a

01:30:09   different one that doesn't have a maybe stand maybe who knows that maybe is a thousand dollars

01:30:16   on its own whole display don't worry about stand chris says i'm disappointed that the apple watch

01:30:22   4 is out of the lineup i was hoping to buy a cheap one is the apple watch 3 worth it the 4 seemed like

01:30:28   such a jump forward so i will say if you wanted to buy a cheap series 4 they will exist in places

01:30:34   like check best buys and stuff like that right like some places are going to be discounting that

01:30:40   but yeah maybe so and i would say there'll also be people who want to get a series 5 who will

01:30:46   sell their series 4 uh there may be some refurb series 4 on apple's website so you have some

01:30:52   options to get it um i think it depends on your commitment to the apple watch like the bigger

01:30:57   screen on the 4 is a lot better than the 3 3 is a nice nice watch but the 4 is a pretty big jump

01:31:04   forward so if you're serious about apple watch i would do bargain hunting for a 4 rather than

01:31:11   go back to the 3 if you really are just taking a flyer on it and you don't think you're going to be

01:31:15   using it heavily but you want to see what it's all about and maybe use it for fitness stuff

01:31:19   then the 3 is a it's a great deal because it's cheap but um if you have any kind of

01:31:25   interest in getting that 4 i would do some some bargain shopping and see if you can find a

01:31:31   used or discounted 4. Do you think this comes from Daniel do you think that apple tv plus pricing

01:31:38   and the bundle with purchase of new products is a fair deal and does that make it now a true

01:31:43   challenger to disney plus and other streaming services they are not a challenger now no won't

01:31:50   be even after the content launches they could have incredible tv shows but their catalog is way too

01:31:55   small way too small it's not you know not with not the game they're playing not the game they're

01:32:00   playing i think i think the bundle with purchase of a new product is brilliant because it's going

01:32:04   to get this service in the in the face of apple users that's perfectly fair like it's a free

01:32:09   year of content great and then i can make my own mind up afterwards but i don't have to give apple

01:32:13   money like specifically to to try it so yeah well you do you do but right but not for that yeah

01:32:21   also accounting accounting wise and this is going to be interesting accounting wise i imagine they're

01:32:27   going to account some pro-rated portion of those device sales as services revenue because of the

01:32:36   value of apple tv plus being bundled in with the sale of the hardware couldn't that be a risk

01:32:42   though for the amount of people that might not renew yeah but it's services revenue right i

01:32:46   think i think legally they probably have to do that because legally they they are including that

01:32:52   service as part of the value of the device so i think they actually have to do they already do

01:32:55   that with some other stuff where they actually consider its services now um and it's a portion

01:33:01   of the value of the of the hardware so i think they'll do some more of that but i i think

01:33:05   there's a question of what is the renewal can you just keep buying apple hardware and getting apple

01:33:08   tv plus forever or is this going to be something that really only happens year one um but the whole

01:33:14   first ones free idea applies here which is they're getting this thing up and running they want as

01:33:19   many eyeballs in front of it as possible they're going to get that and uh that might mean mean

01:33:25   forgoing some incremental revenue now it's fine like disney disney is forgoing a lot of revenue by

01:33:30   aggressively pricing disney plus the point is you want to get it up and running and have people in

01:33:35   your system as subscribers and then um you're looking at their lifetime amount of money they're

01:33:43   spending on your service right like you get them in you get them loyal and then they stay with you

01:33:47   for 10 years 15 years at that price and that's what they want so um i think that that this is

01:33:55   an interesting way of apple doing it rather than bundling it with their other services to just say

01:34:00   try year one try it out you can buy a new iphone you're going to get it anyway so just watch it

01:34:05   and then a year or two from now we'll come to you and say you need to pay us to keep watching your

01:34:09   favorite shows joe asks is mike coming back to the apple watch now so i have said for a long time one

01:34:16   of the main reasons i don't want to wear an apple watch is because i don't want to have to lift my

01:34:21   wrist to look at the time still very true i'm very tempted i was very tempted by the series four

01:34:27   because i think it looks great i'm very tempted by the new cases i really want to see what titanium

01:34:33   and ceramic look like um would i wear an apple watch every day no may i consider one again maybe

01:34:41   i'm not ordering anything now i want to go and look at them but i want to see how these new case

01:34:45   finishings look um i really like i loved the white ceramic when they first did it i love it again i

01:34:53   wished that the crown wasn't black i don't know why they've done that it's black of a red ring

01:34:59   that should be all white in my mind i would have liked to have seen that i thought the image i saw

01:35:03   was white ceramic with a white crown all of the imagery that i have seen shows a black crown so i

01:35:11   i would love to see something if you've seen it but everything on apple's website shows a black

01:35:17   crown i think the slide on the presentation was with a white crown okay so the crown is white but

01:35:23   the circle in inside of the red ring is black does that make sense yeah yeah so that's everything i'm

01:35:32   looking at the website now and it's okay it's black i can't so uh but i want to go look at it

01:35:37   in person maybe it wouldn't look so bad because there's still a black ring around the screen so

01:35:40   who knows maybe it will match up i am also intrigued by the uh the uncolored titanium

01:35:46   just like the regular titanium that maybe look cool i want to go and look at them because

01:35:50   visually they are more appealing to me um maybe i maybe i'll add it into my watch rotation again

01:35:57   who knows but i'm not putting any bets on it yet fusana asks what is your opinion on titanium

01:36:04   versus ceramic versus stainless steel as a watch material i'm having a tough time deciding which

01:36:09   one would be ideal for my needs um all i know is what i've heard marco say which is that both

01:36:16   titanium and ceramic are stronger than stainless steel uh ceramic can shatter but i don't know if

01:36:23   or what apple will do about that do you know anything more than that no i just listened to

01:36:29   marco about this stuff too i i i don't have any i don't have any opinion i think uh also the wisdom

01:36:35   of marco about watches which is if you get a chance to see them in person at your apple store

01:36:39   you should do that you should 100 go and try them on especially if you're trying to try and decide

01:36:44   i mean if you are worried about a watch material then i think at that point you you are upgraded

01:36:51   to the level where you need to go and see it in person if you are somebody who's like i don't care

01:36:56   i just want i just want an apple watch well you know what get the aluminum one then because it's

01:37:00   the cheapest one and you don't care but if you do care you should probably care enough to go look at

01:37:05   them in person if at all possible and i know that means you know inconvenience of finding an apple

01:37:11   store to go see these things but that is the best uh best option i know there are weight differences

01:37:17   too but i don't know what the weight differences are exactly but i know that there are weight

01:37:23   differences between those materials and that will make an effect when it's on your wrist even if

01:37:27   it's only small you will notice it and chris asks final question today is the iphone 11 an upgrade

01:37:34   from the 10s in our opinion uh because chris is considering upgrading and reducing the monthly

01:37:40   upgrade program payment what do you think about that is the iphone 11 an upgrade from the iphone

01:37:46   10s well we didn't even mention it but like one thing is that uh 3d touch is gone 3d touch is gone

01:37:55   haptic touch which i got a point i think i got a point for because they mentioned haptic touch

01:37:59   and they just said hey it's great it's got haptic touch and i thought uh okay that that answers that

01:38:06   question um so you're gonna lose that regardless of what you do i'd say if you're on the 10s that

01:38:13   might not be a problem if which is what we believe that they just replace like you can still do all

01:38:19   of the same things right it feels in ios 13 which is for as much as we know is the case because the

01:38:24   ipad can do everything right so i guess what i would say is do you like a larger phone and

01:38:30   and what to save money because in that case yeah i mean you're going to get an upgraded processor

01:38:36   you're going to get two um two cameras if you use the zoom feature the telephoto feature a lot you're

01:38:43   going to be sad because it doesn't have that lens it's got the ultra wide lens so uh but if you if

01:38:50   it's literally an upgrade that will save you money and you don't mind losing uh the 3d touch and

01:38:58   having a larger phone you know i think the i think the 10r and so presumably the 11 is a pretty great

01:39:05   phone so you could do it i i i don't know i mean if you've got a 10s i i think most people with a

01:39:12   tennis should just wait because they've got a one-year-old phone and you don't need to replace

01:39:15   a one-year-old phone all right that wraps it up for this week's episode of upgrade if you want to

01:39:19   ask questions for future episodes hashtag ask upgrade to do that and we try and answer as many

01:39:24   as we can every show and if you want to help us open an episode of the show hashtag snow talk

01:39:29   next week upstream we're making a return because jason there's been a ton of news about even just

01:39:34   apple's programs a bunch of shows are being cancelled left right and center we're going to

01:39:38   talk about that on next week's show as well as i guess ios stuff is ios out yeah ios is out no it

01:39:48   won't be out will it next week's episode that will be the week after but i'm sure there will still be

01:39:52   a bunch of stuff about the iphone that we want to talk about there's going to be lots of wonderful

01:39:56   news still to cover again st jude.org slash pineapple to donate to st jude um we're actually

01:40:03   raised more money just through the episode we're at fifty two thousand six hundred and forty seven

01:40:07   dollars to somebody or multiple people have gotten us up a thousand dollars more than when we started

01:40:12   how wonderful is that and as i will say again if you pre-order an iphone this friday or you buy an

01:40:17   apple watch now because you can buy those now which is something we didn't mention the apple

01:40:21   watch you could just buy it now you can order it pre-order it now um if you do that please give

01:40:26   st jude some money as well i think that that's it feels like a nice thing to do then you can feel

01:40:30   even better about the purchase that you made because you'll be helping uh st jew's children's

01:40:35   research hospital which is a wonderful institution sixcolors.com i'm sure jason will have lots of

01:40:41   posts and lots of words being written there over the next few days yeah you can follow jason he's

01:40:47   at j snell i am at i mike i m y k e thanks to mayorout moo and pingdom for their support of

01:40:54   this week's episode and most of all thank you for listening we'll be back next time until then say

01:40:59   goodbye jason snell here's looking at you slo-fi