254: Downgrade


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:08   Goodbye I hope you've enjoyed Downgrade, this episode of Upgrade in reverse. You can find me

00:00:13   online as I like Jason is @jsnell J S N E O O L L and you can find Jason's work at sixcolors.com.

00:00:19   I want to thank our sponsors Linode, Butcherbox and Holo. Our show notes are at relay.fm/upgrade/254.

00:00:27   So let's finish up every episode of Upgrade as we always do Jason with some #askupgrade questions.

00:00:33   Goodbye Jason Snell.

00:00:34   Goodbye Jason Snell. Our first question in Downgrade today in the #askupgrade segment

00:00:42   comes from James. This is also a follow-up which is interesting to have at the end of the show,

00:00:47   but here we are anyway. If your favorite podcast moved to a service like Luminary,

00:00:53   would you subscribe?

00:00:55   I think the challenge is going to be what's the exchange of money for content and that's how I

00:01:04   always feel about this. So if I had, if the money I would spend is worth it then I would do it,

00:01:11   but that's what it would require is it would be something that I felt like, and my hesitation

00:01:16   here is that Luminary really wants to be like Netflix, so they want to charge you a larger

00:01:20   amount of money to give you a range of premium exclusive audio shows. And so my gut feeling is

00:01:28   if a podcast went that way, but it was priced that it only made sense if you want lots of them,

00:01:36   I wouldn't do it. I would be frustrated by that, but it's one of those things if that makes any

00:01:43   sense. Like I pay the Flophouse $5 a month on MaxFun because I like that show and I want to give

00:01:48   them money. But if they turned around and said, well, the Flophouse is now $10 or $15 a month as

00:01:53   a part of Luminary, I'd be like, is there anything else I listened to on Luminary that would make it

00:01:57   worth it? Because I'm not, you know, then suddenly they're pricing it to pay for a whole service.

00:02:04   It's the dilemma everybody has when you have a show you're interested in. It's the Star Trek

00:02:08   dilemma for people in the US where it's like, do I want to pay for CBS All Access for one TV show?

00:02:13   Like ideally that service is priced as a service, not as a stream for a single thing. And if only

00:02:21   one thing on that service interests you, I'm not sure the economics work. So that's my challenge

00:02:26   with something like Luminary is they really want me in their ecosystem. And if they move a show I

00:02:31   like into their ecosystem, that alone is probably not enough to make it a good deal unless I really,

00:02:37   really, really love that show. At which point I guess I should be giving more money to the Flophouse.

00:02:42   >> I think my problem in this would be if I then couldn't listen to it in my podcast app of choice,

00:02:49   because that's going to break my model of listening to the show. Like I'm going to forget,

00:02:55   right? So like if, for example, My Brother, My Brother and Me became a paid show on a

00:03:02   walled off platform or if they had their own app or whatever, and it wasn't in Overcast anymore,

00:03:09   I would struggle to remember to listen to the show because when I want to listen to a podcast,

00:03:14   I open Overcast and I look at what's in there and I choose what I want, right? But if then that show

00:03:20   is not in there anymore. >> And I have playlists.

00:03:22   >> Yeah, exactly. >> I just put my priority shows in my playlist and I listen to my priority

00:03:26   playlist and that's it. That's like, that's my podcast world. >> So it would be super strange to

00:03:31   me to then have something living outside of that. I think that would be my biggest kind of pause

00:03:37   would be well, I'm not sure if this works in my model of what a podcast would be for me anymore.

00:03:42   And that might make me- >> I actually have this right now. I subscribe to The Athletic,

00:03:46   which is a sports, it's an app and a website and it's a subscription content service. It's like a

00:03:54   sports page, sports website, and you pay. And I like it. I think it's really good content. I'm

00:04:01   happy to pay for it. It is doing a better job most of the time covering sports than my other sports

00:04:07   outlets are. Even my local paper is sort of like neck and neck with it really. And so I want to do

00:04:12   that. Well, they started doing podcasts and they're only listenable within their app. And I actually

00:04:17   filed a bug ticket with them and I said, guys, you need to be able to let me log in with my username

00:04:25   and password in Overcast to a feed URL and get this podcast because I want to listen to it.

00:04:32   I'm paying for it. >> They have a lot of shows too. >> They do. I will never listen to a podcast.

00:04:39   I have listened to a couple, but it has to be like literally I've got my phone. I think of it

00:04:47   or they push a notification to me and I think, oh, I have time to listen to a podcast right now

00:04:53   while I go do an errand or whatever. So it's happened once or twice, but I would listen to

00:04:58   those podcasts regularly if they were in Overcast. And Overcast and most podcast players have this

00:05:04   facility for an authenticated feed where you can put in a username and password and they verify

00:05:09   you and then you get to see the feed. And so, I mean, I've already complained to them about it,

00:05:14   but that proves my point, which is I am paying for a service that provides podcasts that I'm

00:05:19   interested in listening to. And I don't listen to them because I have to use their app and I

00:05:24   don't want to. >> John asks, what is your current robot vacuum recommendation? >> Oh boy, I only

00:05:33   have, I have a Roomba 680, I want to say, and it's running right now. I like it, but I, if I were

00:05:45   buying, I bought it because I thought on a lark, I was like, I really want a robot, this will be

00:05:50   great. I don't know if it'll work or not. I got a deal on the kind of cut rate Roomba, I'm gonna,

00:05:56   I'm gonna use it. And I really like it to the point that now I actually regret buying the cheap one

00:06:03   because I would love the more expensive one with the mapping and stuff like that. And this one is

00:06:07   just one of the dumb ones that just bumps around. >> So I have a Roomba 960, which we got them

00:06:14   around. I got mine about a year ago. You got yours quite recently, right? It was a, yeah. >> Christmas

00:06:20   basically. >> Yeah. And I really like it a lot. Um, it's, it's great. And I, and I, yeah, but now

00:06:26   they have this new one, the, well, they have a couple of new ones, how they're the I series,

00:06:31   which is the one that not only maps, cause mine kind of maps around, but it doesn't remember

00:06:35   where like the certain rooms are, but with the I series ones, you can say, oh, hey, go clean

00:06:42   this specific room. >> Yeah. And that's the killer feature. Cause, and I would totally use that if I

00:06:47   could say now go clean that room. >> And this is also the one where they introduced the, like the

00:06:53   base where it can suck up the stuff for you. So you don't have to empty it as often. >> Yeah. It

00:06:59   comes with a little home and you run it a couple of times and you've got to empty out the dust tray.

00:07:02   So they, they made like a mega home. That's like a tower and built a system where it empties the,

00:07:10   the dirt tray into a big bin, which is brilliant. I mean, it's a lot more money to do that, but it

00:07:15   is kind of brilliant if you're somebody who doesn't want to clean out the Roomba. So yeah. >> I found

00:07:20   out today, Jason, there is also a brand new series, the S series, which is better at edges,

00:07:26   like dealing with edges and corners. >> Oh interesting. >> Cause the Roomba kind of doesn't

00:07:32   do a great job with the very edge of like a, of a wall or something, but they've kind of refined

00:07:38   the design to make it better for that. And it has all the new stuff and they were very expensive,

00:07:43   but I love my Roomba. Uh, I think it's, I think it's a really nice little thing to have at home.

00:07:49   And I will say, if you're listening to this at the right time, it is prime day

00:07:52   and there are always deals on Roombas. There are deals on Roombas right now. >> Yeah. I will also

00:07:58   say that, that, uh, we have somebody in the chat room who's pointing out that, uh, that they,

00:08:03   they have a, a, a Nito that does the mapping and stuff like that. And I will say Nito is a

00:08:08   competitor to iRobot, um, and Wirecutter really likes their stuff. So I haven't used that cause

00:08:14   I've only ever used one robot, but there are other robot vacuums available. If you're curious about

00:08:18   this, you should go and investigate and maybe look at the Wirecutter's reviews and all of that.

00:08:22   But I will say again, that as somebody who'd never had one and I bought one in December,

00:08:28   I have discovered that I actually really like it and I set it up to go almost every day and it

00:08:35   picks up a lot of stuff. We have two pets and you know, it, it, it really does a good job with dust

00:08:40   and pet hair and stuff like that. And now I regret not splurging on a higher featured model because,

00:08:46   um, because it's really good. And, uh, I'm a little sad that I've just got the one that just kind of

00:08:52   bumps around until it's done, but, uh, it's still pretty great. >> Yeah. When we bought us, they

00:08:57   didn't have the room remembering technology. Cause I would have bought that. That's the one I would

00:09:02   have got. Cause I know that I would have wanted it. Right. I just didn't have it. >> Yeah. Cause I

00:09:05   had that all the time where I want to, I want to, I wanted to clean the hallway and in front of where

00:09:09   the cat box is and stuff like that. And instead I have to pick it up and carry it over there and

00:09:13   press a button and have it bump around over there for a while. And it's dumb. So, yeah. >> Robert

00:09:18   asks, do I still need iTunes match? >> If you have Apple music, you have iTunes match and you don't

00:09:25   need it. Now it used to be that they were different. It used to be that iTunes match,

00:09:29   let you upload your library and then download it again, DRM free and the Apple music version

00:09:35   matched your library, but all your downloads would still have the Apple music DRM on them. And if you

00:09:40   canceled Apple music, your downloads would go away. That's what it used to be. It's not true

00:09:44   anymore. It hasn't been true for a couple of years. Serenity Caldwell wrote about this when it

00:09:48   happened. And this was quite a bit before she left. I'm more to go to Apple. And that was a year ago.

00:09:54   So it's been a while now that this, I want to say two years now. So you don't need iTunes match. If

00:09:59   you're an Apple music subscriber, if you're an Apple music subscriber, you, uh, you know,

00:10:04   iTunes will scan your iTunes library, or I guess the music app come this fall will scan your

00:10:09   library and it will do the matching and it'll upload things that don't match and it'll make

00:10:13   it all available. And if you were to lose your files, I don't recommend that you delete your

00:10:17   files, but if you were to lose your files and you downloaded the ones that had matched, they would

00:10:23   be DRM free. That's my understanding. So you don't need iTunes match in addition to Apple music.

00:10:30   It's sort of an either or iTunes match is a separate purchase. If you're not an Apple music

00:10:36   subscriber to just get your library synced to all of your devices, and it's a great product,

00:10:41   but if you're using Apple music, you don't need it. Kevin asks, do you have a system for taking

00:10:46   notes while recording each episode about what kind of edits you want to make? Like say, for example,

00:10:50   somebody comes in and interrupts you. So you write down the time that it happened. Yes, Kevin,

00:10:54   that is exactly what I have. I have a notebook in front of me. Um, it's the Pano book by Studio

00:10:58   Neat, which is my favorite notebook for this type of stuff, because it sits very nicely underneath

00:11:03   my keyboard. And every time either I talk over Jason or Jason talks over me, I write down a

00:11:08   little time code. Except this time, because this is just an example. Thank you. I knew you were

00:11:13   going to do that. I was waiting for the moment that you were going to, uh, and then I will go

00:11:18   back in later on and fix that. And that is a, this is a specific way of editing. It's not necessarily

00:11:24   the best way, but for me, I find it gives the best edit to account for speed, which is what we're

00:11:30   going for. Like I, I could sit like I do with some other shows and listen to this entire show and

00:11:35   edit carefully like that, but then upgrade will take at least a day or two more to be released.

00:11:40   And that's not what I want. Um, that's not what we want. I like this show is news focused and for us,

00:11:46   we like to be faster with it. So over time, we've just gotten better at the way that we work

00:11:51   together like that. And I've developed my own little system and I'll take notes, not even just

00:11:55   like little times of when we talk over each other, but sometimes during the show, me and Jason will

00:11:59   make a decision about things. Maybe we want to cut out or change and I just write down a note and

00:12:04   I'll go back in and fix it later on. So that's the system. I do the same. And, um, I, this is

00:12:10   actually why for those who have read me, uh, you know, my pieces about using logic, this is why I

00:12:16   use the remove silence feature and logic, which basically takes all the parts where there's no

00:12:21   sound and makes them disappear. So all that's left with our little blocks that each represent a noise

00:12:27   being made in a particular audio track. And the number one reason that's valuable is you can very

00:12:33   quickly see when somebody talks and then, which is a long block of audio. And then in the middle of

00:12:39   it, there's a block of audio on another person's track and you go, Oh, that's probably not good.

00:12:45   I mean, it may be just a, Oh yeah, you know, an interjection. And when people are having

00:12:49   a conversation and they're going back and forth and you suddenly see a bunch of overlap,

00:12:53   that's the stuff that I I'm visually drawn to. And, and in most of the podcasts I do that, like,

00:13:00   like Myke, that is what I'm trying to really clean up is I want to make it seem like we're completely

00:13:06   simpatico and not in California and England and with Skype lag and occasionally having a false

00:13:13   start, I want to make it seem, and I know you are the same way, make it seem like you, you stop and

00:13:19   I start and then I stop and then you start and we're in perfect harmony because I think it's a

00:13:23   better listening experience and a monologue like this one where I've talked for a long time,

00:13:28   that's really easy because you look and you're just like, Oh, Jason talked for a while and you

00:13:31   go to the end of it. And Andreas asks, as independent workers, do you have specific

00:13:36   working hours? Do you plan your day in this way or do you work on holidays and weekends?

00:13:40   Well, my boss is a jerk and makes me work on holidays. Well, we do the show on a Monday,

00:13:46   which is often a holiday, but we usually still do this show on the Monday. Um, I was talking to

00:13:51   somebody over the weekend and I said, the nice thing about, about, uh, being an independent

00:13:57   worker is I can set my own hours there and they responded, but you work every day. And I said,

00:14:02   there is some truth to that. I can make choices about when I work and when I don't,

00:14:07   but it's also true that it does, it does bleed over sometimes. Like I still edit, and this is

00:14:13   a vestige of when I worked on a Monday to Friday job, but I still edit the incomparable on Saturday

00:14:18   morning. I just, I do that. That's just a thing that I do. And sometimes podcasts get recorded

00:14:23   over the weekend because that's when people are available to do them. Um, I try to be at my desk

00:14:29   at a certain time and leave my desk at a certain time, but there are, I do have the flexibility

00:14:35   to step away and go do something else during the day. And the exchange for that is that I'm also

00:14:40   sometimes recording a podcast at night or on a weekend or doing some other work, um, in what

00:14:45   would traditionally be downtime. Being in the situation that I am in with the type of business

00:14:50   that I run, I do work every single day. Like it's just, even when I'm on holidays, there will be

00:14:55   things that people need, but that's a choice that I make, right? Like I'm fine with that,

00:14:59   uh, because I get to pick when I work, I get to choose that. So yeah, that's the trade-off is you,

00:15:04   you can, I was having this realization because so, so my wife does not have a lot of vacation time

00:15:11   and it just, it strikes me when we are choosing travel together that, uh, her priorities, you know,

00:15:19   have to, we have to start calculating out like when's she going to work and what's she going to

00:15:22   take off and all of that. And it is funny because then I go, uh, I look at it and I'm like, whatever,

00:15:28   like literally I have to move things around and schedule things, but I can go if I want. I can,

00:15:32   I can be gone for this day and I'll just make it work. And, and that is big, that's great. And that

00:15:39   is the payoff. But the other side of it is that you probably have to work times where you might

00:15:44   not otherwise. Yeah. But it's like, I want to spend an extra couple of days on a vacation. I'm

00:15:49   planning fine. I just know I need to keep my phone on me. Like, and then, and then maybe nobody will

00:15:53   bother me that day. Like, or maybe nothing will come up and sometimes that's the case. And then

00:15:57   they just get to enjoy the day. So there, there, that's the thing you work every day, but you don't

00:16:02   have to work all day. Yeah. All right. So that was hashtag ask upgrade. Well, that is hashtag

00:16:09   ask upgrade. It's just beginning. I'm not sure. Uh, this episode is brought to you by our friends

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00:17:58   Our thanks to hollow for their support of this show and relay FM. So we should talk about our

00:18:03   second topic. Our main topic, uh, for this week's episode, the big one, new laptops. That's

00:18:08   hilarious considering last week's episode, talking about laptop rumors with they weren't they, uh,

00:18:14   turns out they did with some of them didn't with some others. We have, uh, an interesting couple

00:18:20   of revisions. We have new, two new laptops and the departure of another, uh, or two new additions,

00:18:26   two new, uh, types of things going on with the MacBook Air. The MacBook Air now starts at $999.

00:18:33   If you're a student, it's 10 99 otherwise, uh, they put a true tone display in it and they updated

00:18:38   the keyboards to have the new quote, new keyboard materials. Um, still the butterfly keyboard,

00:18:45   but with the new materials that came in the MacBook Pro a few months ago. Um, and then the

00:18:49   MacBook Pro, the, the, what has been dubbed the escape, the MacBook Pro with the physical keys

00:18:56   that MacBook Pro is basically half gone, half upgraded the product that now sits in that

00:19:03   line in that space in the line has a touch bar. Now there is no more MacBook Pro with actual, uh,

00:19:09   physical, uh, function keys on it anymore. It has true tone display comes with a T2 chip. And of

00:19:15   course, because it has a touch bar touch ID, um, and also the MacBook, the 12 inch MacBook with the

00:19:21   one USB-C port is gone. It is Gonzo. We'll talk about the MacBook in a minute. Uh, but I want to

00:19:28   kind of get your feeling on the updates to the laptop line. Um, I would expect Jason that you

00:19:34   were only further, uh, recommending the air to people. Uh, but I wonder as well what you think

00:19:39   about the consolidation of the MacBook pro line in that they've really kind of made it all one now

00:19:47   with the touch bar and stuff like that. Yeah. So two things going on here, the air is not much of

00:19:53   an update. It really is a tweak. The best thing was the price went down, honestly, like that's,

00:19:57   that's, that's actually the feature. $100 for re for everyone except, uh, education and $150

00:20:05   for education. And that's probably why they did this, right? So they could get it in before back

00:20:10   to school and at the price point that everybody kind of wants it to be. And I had already done,

00:20:16   I mean, we've got a story on that. I update on six colors. That's like the right laptop,

00:20:20   Mac laptop to buy for a student. I already said it's the MacBook air. The truth is the $999 price.

00:20:28   I mean, and that is the, that is the right price. And we always said that the old non retina air

00:20:32   existed at $999 essentially for education. And here we are education. It's $999 is now the education

00:20:38   price. Let's be, uh, open here. Apple has been making the air available aggressively in specials

00:20:47   at various online retailers for $999 for a long time now, almost since it came out. This is the

00:20:54   new one you're talking about. The new retina air. So, so saying that it, you know, it got cut in

00:20:59   price, um, is good. Um, but I will say that $999, you've been able to get a MacBook air,

00:21:06   the base model for $999 for a while now, if you look for the, look for the deal,

00:21:10   maybe you get it for $899 somewhere now, who knows maybe, or maybe they've just, they're there. They

00:21:15   were doing that as a way to keep the price up. And now they're sort of like, no, no, we're going to

00:21:18   actually sell it. But my guess is that you'll still find it for $999. Um, but now the base

00:21:22   price is $1099. Um, other big thing, and this is the Steven Hackett, um, thing you guys talk about

00:21:28   this on connected a lot is the, the, uh, the storage upgrades, which used to be kind of

00:21:32   laughable. Like you had to go up to one and a half terabytes or something like that and pay a fortune

00:21:37   for it. And they, the storage updates seem to be a little more granular and a little more reasonable,

00:21:41   reasonably priced, which is another nice tweak that they're making that I think is more education

00:21:45   friendly. If you are buying a Mac, a Mac laptop for a student this summer, uh, which I may be,

00:21:52   because my daughter's going off to college, I have to see how she feels about her three-year-old

00:21:55   MacBook, 12 inch MacBook, uh, the MacBook air. It's, it's great. I mean, the keyboard,

00:22:00   it's unclear whether the new materials keyboard is going to be, um, more reliable. And a lot of

00:22:07   people don't like it for lots of reasons that have been detailed, the travel, the arrow keys,

00:22:12   there's lots of reasons, but it's got touch ID. It's got a beautiful display. Now that it's got

00:22:17   true tone. In addition to that, it's a good, it's a good laptop. And that's the one that I would

00:22:21   recommend that both of these have been put into the keyboard replacement program. They're both in

00:22:25   there. So, you know, if there is a problem, there's a reliability problem for this new materials model.

00:22:31   Um, you've got four years, at least of coverage of it. I know there are a lot of people are going to

00:22:35   say, no, I'm not going to buy a Mac laptop until they change the keyboard. Fair enough. Sometimes,

00:22:39   sometimes people, um, sometimes you don't have that choice. Sometimes you, your kids going to

00:22:44   college and you need to give them a laptop. So what you're going to do, right? And yeah,

00:22:49   so the keyboard might suck. Buy them a PC laptop, if then they'll hate you forever,

00:22:53   or you could, uh, just buy the MacBook air and it's nice. And wait, like I said, I bought two,

00:22:57   we have two of these in my house now. And, uh, and they're pretty great. Actually, they're pretty,

00:23:02   pretty great. Uh, the MacBook pro the MacBook escape thing, like I know from a computer nerd

00:23:10   standpoint, the MacBook escape didn't go away. It just got, uh, it got a processor update and

00:23:17   a touch bar, uh, because it's still the lower power processor, but it is a quad core now,

00:23:22   which it was a dual core before it's got the touch bar. Um, it's only got the two ports,

00:23:28   the two Thunderbolt three ports, whereas the higher end 13 has four. So there's still two

00:23:33   distinct levels of 13 inch Mac pro. That said, I think from a regular person's standpoint,

00:23:44   and even from a product line product marketing standpoint, I feel like it's much more logical.

00:23:52   Now there's clarity. The MacBook pro has touch bar period. The air is not even that much lighter or

00:23:59   thinner than the MacBook pro anymore. So that wasn't a differentiator. Yeah. So here it is

00:24:04   now. Now, yes, there's the one with two and there's the one with four and there's variation

00:24:09   within what the 13 inch Mac book pro is, but they both look pretty much the same and have a touch

00:24:16   bar and a discerning person will know the differences between the top and the bottom of

00:24:22   the line models. But honestly, lots of computer models have differences between the low end and

00:24:28   the high end configurations. These are a little more extreme, but at least it feels, it feels like

00:24:35   the same product. Whereas before it really felt like there were two completely separate 13 inch

00:24:40   Mac book pros. Now it feels like there's one with some variation, even though behind the scenes,

00:24:46   it, you know, it is the evolution of the Mac book escape into something that, but I feel like the,

00:24:52   the touch bar is such a defining characteristic of that product line right now that to have one

00:24:56   without it was super strange. And now, and now it's got it, which is, which is great. But the,

00:25:02   for me, Myke, the big story, and I wrote about this at Mac world last week is this is Apple

00:25:08   finally saying this is like the last shoe to drop in this several year drama of the replacement for

00:25:16   the Mac book air. Cause they came out with a Mac book and it was like, yeah, this is obviously the

00:25:20   future. This is going to be the computer that replaces the Mac book air. And then when they

00:25:24   came out with the Mac book pro line and that escape model, we all remember I think Phil Schiller

00:25:30   standing on stage and saying, you know, this is a great replacement for the Mac book air except

00:25:34   to cost like four or $500 more, but it was the same kind of process or class in terms of power.

00:25:40   And it's got a fan and it's about the same weight and it's about the same size. So you're like,

00:25:44   Oh, this is like a Mac book air, except it was way more expensive. And so there it is. Apple's

00:25:50   got two products that it's basically put out over the course of about a year that are theoretically

00:25:56   Mac book air replacements, and then the air can fade away and they didn't even name the Mac book

00:26:00   air because they're going to let that name fade away. And we know the story, which is

00:26:04   the Mac book air wouldn't die. And as of last week, those two products that really were kind

00:26:09   of like claiming to be basically a Mac book air replacement are dead. It's like the Mac book air

00:26:16   took them out. Like they were the, they were the pretenders. They were going to try to take

00:26:19   the Mac book air's place in Apple's product line and they're both gone. And the Mac book air is

00:26:25   here. Who would have bet on that two years ago? That's amazing, but that's the power of the Mac

00:26:30   book air. And it shows you what a miscalculation they made with those two products. I would say

00:26:37   probably what's happened here is Apple maybe didn't realize how powerful a brand they had

00:26:42   in the Mac book air. I think that that branding has resonated with people for long enough

00:26:47   that it was just strong enough, right? Like it just, it just, it hit just about right. But I

00:26:53   think it's also, there's something, something bad happened with the Mac book, right? Like I feel

00:26:57   like, you know, I said this on connected, but I feel like this product didn't get the moment it

00:27:04   was owed. Like it didn't get its place in the plan that they had for whatever reason. You know,

00:27:10   like it feels like this was a product that was supposed to get better, but it never really did.

00:27:15   It didn't have its jump. So this is the thing I, and I was on Twitter, I was talking to Marco

00:27:20   about this on Twitter last week. What other product has that exact same description? It's

00:27:26   trashcan Mac, Mac pro. Right. And I think that, that that may be the source of this is that they

00:27:31   wanted to make the iPad laptop, right? They wanted to make the ultimate super small, super thin,

00:27:37   no fan Mac laptop. And they did. And I, and, and the story of the 12 inch Mac book, at least so far,

00:27:44   maybe it will come back in some form down the road. There are lots of conspiracy theories about

00:27:47   that, about this being a future arm laptop design, but the story of the Mac Mac book 12 inch Mac book

00:27:54   right now is it never got better. And we expect these Apple products to come out and then to see

00:28:01   Apple iterate on them and the Mac pro we expected that. And the Mac book, we expected that and the

00:28:07   Mac book never got better. I would have bet money and I would have lost it that in a matter of a

00:28:13   year or two, the Mac book would have gained ports and probably gained Thunderbolt three

00:28:17   and would have just kind of continually gotten better from its, its, you know, shaky in a way,

00:28:24   very limited start, it would keep improving. And it never did like the air. Exactly, exactly. And

00:28:31   it never did. And my, um, my theory as a person on the outside who is not a computer engineer is

00:28:39   not that fanless design, right? Is that a thermal corner thing where like the parts from Intel

00:28:44   and the heat issues, like the way the whole thing, the whole premise of that product was based on

00:28:49   this particular set of stuff from Intel that is super limited and didn't get better. And

00:28:55   they end up with this product that they're just kind of stuck with a low end processor. That's

00:28:59   not very good. And they, and, and the USB-C port. And, and at some point they're like, look, we,

00:29:04   we should, we should not even, it's, this is a sunk cost. We should just cut it loose and build

00:29:09   a new Mac book air. And I look at it now and I think that's exactly what they did a couple

00:29:13   years ago. Probably. They looked at the Mac book after it being out on the market for a couple

00:29:18   years and said, this is a mistake. We just need to do a Mac book air and we need to cut the Mac book

00:29:22   loose and the Mac book hasn't gotten any updates. And now we've got a Mac book air and then the Mac

00:29:26   book is gone. So I think they just looked at it and realized we made a mistake. This, we made

00:29:31   assumptions with this product. And it turns out that not only is it really limited, but it doesn't

00:29:35   have any room to grow. And they made the Mac book air, which is not, you know, not as advanced in a

00:29:40   lot of ways as the old Mac book air, because a lot of the, so again, the same class of processor is

00:29:46   really in that bottom of the line Mac book pro, but it has a fan. It has touch ID. It has multiple

00:29:55   Thunderbolt three ports. It's, you know, it's better in every way than the Mac book other than

00:30:00   size and weight. So it is fascinating that, that they ended up, this is very clearly like

00:30:06   very quickly too. I think if you think about the timeline, Apple realizing that the Mac book was

00:30:10   a mistake and that they needed to do the Mac book air again. So a bit of lots of refinements to the

00:30:16   laptop line this year, I think like a bunch of speed bumps and stuff like that. I don't think

00:30:20   we were expecting to see anything change on the air for a bit. Um, even on last week's episode,

00:30:26   we were talking about like, Oh, well the escape is probably dead. Right? Like that was, yeah,

00:30:30   except Marco said he heard that there was going to get updated, which it sort of did, but in a

00:30:34   weird way. And yeah. So is this encouraging to you? This continues to be like a, something that

00:30:40   you, you like to see Apple doing. I think it is. I think that Mac book sort of head fake and then

00:30:48   going to the Mac book air is maybe a good example of Apple realizing that its priorities with the

00:30:52   Mac were out of whack also continually updating these, uh, these systems. These were the two

00:30:58   and the Mac book and the Mac book escape were the ones who hadn't gotten an update and everybody was

00:31:01   sort of like, well, what's going to happen. And the answer is one of them became a more of a Mac

00:31:05   book pro and the other one got dropped. And that's the, that's your answer. But Apple has done a

00:31:09   pretty good job of updating the laptops. They seem to have realized that the Mac book itself was just

00:31:14   a bridge too far. Um, they have with the air I'm encouraged. They are pushing the price down on

00:31:20   that retina air, which was the biggest complaint all of us had about it was that it looked really

00:31:24   great, but it was $200 more than the base model of the old Mac book air. And that was, and now it's

00:31:31   a hundred more. Uh, and, and it's, uh, so it's, it's closer. And again, with a deal, you can get

00:31:37   it for nine 99 and that's a pretty good deal. That's a great price for that laptop. So I'm

00:31:42   encouraged that they have a plan and that they have some clarity about what the Mac is now that

00:31:49   maybe they didn't have back when they released that Mac book and, and that keyboard, by the way,

00:31:55   in 2015. Right? Like I think maybe we are starting to see the fruits of that, uh, that change in

00:32:02   attitude toward the Mac that we saw starting a couple of years ago. So what about this 2019

00:32:08   Mac book here with the new keyboard that our friend Roger predicted? Oh, now what do you think?

00:32:15   Sometimes I wonder if maybe what we're hearing is some confusion based on what the parts are.

00:32:21   So it sounds like there's a new keyboard, but what, what model is it? And I've heard,

00:32:25   I think on ATP, I think Marco said, well, they could just do a new, a new Mac book air with a

00:32:29   new keyboard this fall. It seems like they would not bother with this update, but it is a super

00:32:34   minor update. That's just for back to school. So if they had a new Mac book air with a new

00:32:38   keyboard shipping in November, that would be too late for back to school. So maybe they, they rush,

00:32:43   they swap in the new keyboard, which the old Mac book air could get, can get that keyboard if it's

00:32:48   repaired. Right. So that's not a change at all. They added the true tone thing, but it's like,

00:32:52   it may, it may be that the Mac book air mid 2019 is, is replaced with a Mac book air late 2019.

00:33:01   That's one of the reasons they do those early mid late is sometimes models change during a year.

00:33:08   And that could happen. But I think it's fascinating. Like we've had all these laptop

00:33:13   updates, so Apple theoretically doesn't need to update Mac laptops again until next year.

00:33:18   But they often will do Mac updates in the fall. So I don't know. I think it's, I think it's,

00:33:25   I think it's fun that it's mysterious about what they're doing. I think we all anticipate

00:33:29   that we're going to see a new generation of Mac laptops. It's unclear what they will be.

00:33:36   The Mac book pro is the one that probably needs a new, I mean, the Mac book air is essentially

00:33:40   a new generation last year. So I doubt that it would be radically changed even if they

00:33:46   swapped in a new keyboard for it, but the Mac book pro is crying out for that. So I think the

00:33:51   most likely scenario is probably that it's the, it is that 16 inch Mac book pro that is replacing

00:33:57   the 15 inch Mac book pro and that that design could come this fall or it could come next spring.

00:34:03   Because I feel like the Mac book pro needs it the most and that's your high end thing. It's going to

00:34:10   pros who are going to be more finicky about this stuff. Like that's the logical place to roll all

00:34:15   this stuff out and you got the Mac book air ready to go for back to school. Like, do you need more

00:34:20   than that? I don't know. I still think it's possible that we see them. If, you know, I just,

00:34:28   I don't think that this update to the Mac book air precludes them from putting a new keyboard in

00:34:33   towards the end of the year. It doesn't. Like I really see this as like, they wanted to get

00:34:40   that price down. They had a way to do it. And if they did it, they could also change the screen

00:34:45   over, which may have been some other economical reason that they would want to do that. Adding

00:34:49   a feature doesn't necessarily mean it's more expensive, right? Also, you know, conspiracy

00:34:54   theory wise, and I think I mentioned this last week, I don't, I mean, it's possible that the

00:35:00   keyboard place in the Mac book air is a new keyboard size because, you know, the last year's

00:35:11   model and this year's model can be, they can swap in that keyboard, the new keyboard for the old

00:35:15   keyboard. They're the same size. It's possible that that size is the size and shape and all the

00:35:22   dimensions, all the specs that is necessary for this keyboard and the next keyboard. I'm not

00:35:28   saying that that's true. It may require a complete redesign, but I think if they're going to

00:35:31   completely redesign the Mac book air case, it's not going to happen a year after they already did

00:35:37   it. It seems very unlikely that they would do it, but it is possible that they already did it. And

00:35:42   we just don't know, cause they're still using, cause the new keyboard's not ready, but they,

00:35:46   when it is ready, they've got a place to put it. I don't know. I don't know. It's, what's great

00:35:51   about this, if you like mystery, is all of it is possible. Like we could see anything. We could see

00:35:59   an ARM Mac book return to the lineup this fall or next spring too. I mean, there's all of these

00:36:05   things are out there now that Apple is, has kind of cleared the decks of some of our long-standing

00:36:11   Mac laptop questions, like what happens to the Mac book escape and what happens to the 12 inch Mac

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00:37:59   Relay FM. So shall we continue Jason with our second of two kind of mini follow-uppy topics?

00:38:06   Sure let's do that. I love the mini topics. Let's do some. There were some changes in Apple retail

00:38:12   that I wanted to point out because we were talking about this a lot when Angela Ahrens left and we've

00:38:17   been talking about it before like when looking at the way that Apple is selling their products in

00:38:22   Apple stores. So some Apple stores have gotten new signage so there are these new display tables that

00:38:28   have like integrated stands that show the three iPhones next to each other and has a bunch of like

00:38:34   key details to show the differentiation between them. The glass cases on the Apple Watch stand

00:38:40   has been removed allowing you to easily try them on and there is something called Express Checkout

00:38:45   being tried out in a bunch of Apple stores as well where it's basically a checkout desk for

00:38:50   accessories. And I just wanted to kind of get your feeling on this like this seems like a refinement

00:38:56   to the look at our stores that is places of beauty and that maybe trying to make them a little bit

00:39:02   more functional again. Yeah this seems to be in line with what we've talked about since Angela

00:39:11   Ahrens was was leaving which is and for those who don't know our theory is basically that she was

00:39:18   brought in under the assumption that Apple was going to be able to continue selling iPhones

00:39:24   without trying to sell them essentially. Yeah that like the iPhones were selling themselves

00:39:28   effectively. Yeah and that Apple stores were basically brand extensions incredibly popular

00:39:34   profitable brand extensions because really. Beautiful buildings that just happen to have

00:39:39   iPhones in them right that you could walk out with. And throw off enormous amounts of money

00:39:44   while you're focused on brand extension instead of sales which is a great problem to have right.

00:39:50   And what happened is the iPhone sales stalled and they realized they needed to start pushing those

00:39:58   buttons and we did an episode where we talked about that a lot and I leaned on my you know

00:40:02   Apple retail sources people in the trenches who say this is absolutely true that starting last

00:40:07   fall especially the focus has really been on pushing people toward sales like not necessarily

00:40:15   like sleazy sales tactics but like if we do training sessions and education sessions in

00:40:21   the store which they do a lot of let people try the new hardware you know basically like

00:40:27   how how do we expose people to this stuff so that we are going to increase our chance of selling a

00:40:33   new product to them and that is something that they didn't have to do so much of before. So I

00:40:37   look at this and I think this is this is all part of that change which Angela Ahrens wasn't brought

00:40:43   in to really do she was brought in to do the pretty beautiful brand extension thing and this

00:40:47   is much more back to basics retail of we need to make our stores clearer and it easier for people

00:40:54   to give us money because you know any friction in the process used to be not a problem because

00:40:58   people were beating down our doors to buy our iPhones and now we need to coax them in and

00:41:03   convince them to do it and that's a you know Apple still got one of the most powerful retail

00:41:07   operations in the world perhaps the most powerful but they have to work harder than they used to and

00:41:13   this seems to be right in line with that. One of the other big complaints that is levied towards

00:41:19   Apple stores is that it's so difficult to get repairs scheduled right so Apple released their

00:41:26   press release about this and I didn't really see many people talking about it I only found it by

00:41:30   accident that Apple have partnered with Best Buy so there are now 1000 stores across the US

00:41:37   that can do service and repairs for Apple products and so this is going to significantly reduce the

00:41:42   load on the genius growth and also like Apple calls out in their press release that they now have

00:41:49   service for places where they don't have stores and they have no plans for stores so they can do

00:41:55   same-day iPhone repairs and they can do basically everything that an Apple store can do when it

00:42:01   comes to fixing iPhones and stuff like that and I just think that this is a very interesting

00:42:06   partnership as a way to kind of give Apple a bit of a release valve on their technical support.

00:42:12   Kyle: Yeah and it solves the problem of people not being close to an Apple store they talk about how

00:42:19   so much percentage of the US population is near an Apple store but the truth is they don't cover

00:42:24   and a lot of those people are it's a long drive and you're driving there to hopefully get your

00:42:29   computer fixed and then you have to drive back another day and it's a lot of driving and it's

00:42:34   really bad and if you've got a Best Buy you add another thousand centers of repair that's going

00:42:39   to be better and honestly they're trying to grapple with something that we talked about

00:42:43   when we talked about this a few months ago which is the dual purpose of a retail store because it's

00:42:50   not just a beautiful place to come and be part of the community and browse products but it is a

00:42:57   support center for people with broken products and boy if you've ever brought a broken product into

00:43:04   one of those shiny Apple stores it is not a good feeling because they are not it is neither job one

00:43:13   nor job two when you walk in right it's people talking and having a good time and being at the

00:43:18   Apple store and it's people buying products and then you're there you know lugging in your broken

00:43:23   computer wanting support these stores are not designed for one of their primary functions

00:43:29   no in fact I would I would argue that in the long run what Apple needs to do is focus on finding a

00:43:35   way to do and maybe this Best Buy partnership is part of that but like even in the main retail

00:43:39   stores find a way to have the repair and support experience be clearer and more defined and I don't

00:43:49   know whether they should experiment with things like having a support center room on the side in

00:43:54   the back something like that so that you're not any noisy everybody you know doing sessions and

00:44:00   playing with the stuff versus you trying to explain your problem your broken computer like I don't

00:44:07   know how you address that but it feels to me like the at least in the stores that I've been in

00:44:13   they are wildly inappropriate in terms of tone for somebody who has a broken computer in their hands

00:44:19   that they're desperately trying to fix and I'm not saying that they don't give good service I'm saying

00:44:25   I don't ever feel when I bring something in for service that I am that I belong in the store

00:44:32   really a bit fundamentally that I belong in the store I feel at least my gut feeling is like they

00:44:37   ought to have like a side door for the broken computers because I don't belong here I'm not one

00:44:42   of these smiling happy people who's saying oh maybe I'll be an iMac I'm I'll buy an iMac I'm

00:44:47   the kind of person who's sad and caring and iMac that is that has a spider in it

00:44:51   you know and it's it's a it's not a fun experience or you've got a laptop that won't boot or whatever

00:44:58   it is and I just I think it's a challenge that again was not on the radar I know that they have

00:45:05   they do it but like Angela Ahrendts was not brought in to make an amazing broken computer

00:45:10   experience or broken phone experience that was really not why she was there it's not her fault

00:45:15   that was you know that was not what they were thinking about and I'm encouraged by this because

00:45:19   maybe they it's certainly a way that they could be better is by figuring out how to do that because

00:45:25   this means there's just two things you can have your cake and eat it you can keep making your

00:45:29   stores these beautiful things that are not built for repairs but also make it easier for people to

00:45:33   get repairs by partnering with companies that can and do who provide a different experience

00:45:41   the problem I have with the Best Buy thing is that Apple has also had a whole like they used to have

00:45:47   a very large Apple certified repair you know dealers and things like that and those businesses

00:45:53   have been decimated by the success of the Apple store there are 1,800 authorized service providers

00:46:01   in the US yeah so this is my this is my larger point which is if I was Apple and Apple retail

00:46:08   I think and I'm just gonna throw this out there this is just a wacky idea I would invest in all

00:46:17   of those certified Apple repair people and try to make an effort to make them stronger and to refer

00:46:28   people to them so that these repairs are happening somewhere that is not my beautiful Apple store

00:46:34   at least yeah to a larger degree especially for things like maybe like Macs versus things like

00:46:40   iPhones that are that are super small and complicated and you need specialized equipment

00:46:44   for them but even them maybe like that would be one solution here is to let the independent

00:46:51   certified repair centers handle this stuff and get it out of the Apple store and say no what you

00:46:57   should do is you know you go and you click on a genius appointment I have a broken Mac and maybe

00:47:01   what they say is you have a repair center next to you near you you should go to them not to us and

00:47:08   they could just push some of that stuff aside because one of the problems here is I think the

00:47:12   fundamental idea Apple wants to control everything and so they say well we got retail stores and we're

00:47:17   going to do all our support in there and we're going to get everybody else out and we're going

00:47:20   to do it all ourselves which is fine if you do it but the problem is if you are if you're not

00:47:27   focused on it so you've taken somebody else's stuff and then because you're Apple and then you

00:47:34   don't pay it enough attention that's the most maddening thing that Apple can do is or anybody

00:47:39   who wants to have complete control over something is okay take complete control but then you need

00:47:43   to own it and and instead these people who are independent Apple retailers and repair centers

00:47:50   and things like that that's just that business has been brutal because Apple stores are so successful

00:47:56   so I don't know I again it's not like Apple stores don't do repairs and that Apple doesn't you get in

00:48:01   it's nice to take it into the Apple store and sometimes it's convenient if you live close to one

00:48:06   it's more that it really doesn't feel like the Apple store as it's defined today is built for it

00:48:12   like they used to have genius bars in the back of the store right they don't even have those anymore

00:48:16   so you you just hold your broken computer and stand there or sit on a bench somewhere until

00:48:20   someone comes to take it away it is very sad it is by yeah you prop your broken iMac against a tree

00:48:26   and wait for a magical Apple genius to appear it's not not there's more work to do here but I I'm

00:48:32   encouraged it these moves make me feel like they know that there's something wrong yeah there's one

00:48:37   little thing it's one like one last little thing it's all coming from a press release so it's the

00:48:41   squeakiest loveliest version it can be but when they say about the 1800 Apple authorized service

00:48:47   providers that's tripled over the last three years that's good so that I mean you would assume I mean

00:48:52   that means they didn't have a lot so when you talk about decimation that's what the decimation was

00:48:56   right there were not many three years ago yeah they they all yeah I mean the rise of the Apple

00:49:00   store killed all that I mean you used to go buy a Mac at your local computer shop right I think a

00:49:05   lot of people did that some people went to Best Buy or wherever but a lot of people or your Mac

00:49:10   breaks and you take it to your local Mac repair shop and now you take it to the Apple store and

00:49:15   they they lost so much of their business and a lot of those companies are hurting or gone and so uh

00:49:21   yeah yeah more maybe that was maybe just a little bit of a mistake on Apple's part I don't know

00:49:27   and our first little follow-up mini topic today uh publishers are unhappy with Apple news plus

00:49:33   according to a report from business insider many publishers are not seeing good revenue from Apple

00:49:40   news plus in some cases there have been reports from publications that they are seeing one twentieth

00:49:46   of what Apple told them they would likely receive or that it is about equal with the money that they

00:49:51   received from texture which is not good if that's the case yeah um I was gonna say the um in

00:49:59   journalism Myke we call this dog bites man okay the most common and obvious of stories of course

00:50:07   everybody said this before of course this was going to happen Apple was not going to be able

00:50:11   to live up to their promise how many people do we know who tried it out on the trial period and then

00:50:16   cancelled it and don't use Apple news plus I'm you know it's I am not surprised it's not a great

00:50:21   experience uh it's and the terms were never great for publishers so how how unsurprising is this

00:50:28   uh the report from business insider sites that Apple is encouraging feedback from publishers um

00:50:35   who apparently seem ultimately unhappy with the magazine format like that that isn't what a lot

00:50:41   of companies want to do which again is is not surprising um and it also seems that users are

00:50:48   confused with the offering like what is free what is paid uh-huh I don't think Apple did a very good

00:50:54   job of communicating I don't think they've done a very good job of pushing it um yeah this as you

00:51:01   say this is not a surprise to anybody who was paying attention because when it was announced

00:51:07   it was very much a huh okay right like it it wasn't much and and it doesn't seem like it's

00:51:12   taken off at all I don't know why this got launched in in just thinking about it now

00:51:20   I don't know why they launched this when all their other service stuff that they were doing is

00:51:24   basically like this fall why did this have to launch now it was very clearly not ready

00:51:30   the the app is a mess do you remember when it launched and you could just like

00:51:34   on the mac version you could just get all the pdfs if you hadn't downloaded all the pdfs yeah yeah

00:51:39   yeah and and it's not a good experience like I used it and and in a an hour using it it was very

00:51:46   clear that it was a complete disaster that I I want to sign up for these things you know you want

00:51:52   to sign up for the uh favorites of the things you want you want to be able to browse them directly

00:51:57   or have them integrated in your news feed they should probably be tagged as being part of news

00:52:00   plus you should be able like the whole app needs to be better and then news plus needs to be better

00:52:05   integrated into it plus there's this whole thing that it's coming from texture so there's a lot of

00:52:10   magazine pdfs and that is not what apple news is about apple news is about reading individual

00:52:15   articles and uh it did a bad job of that and uh also it's using a lot of magazine publishers when

00:52:23   probably news publishers were better but they couldn't make deals with many of them other

00:52:27   than the wall street journal and the la times so it's a mess it should never have launched

00:52:32   it's not good i will revisit it at some point maybe in the fall but like unless they make major

00:52:38   changes to the news app which we haven't seen in any of the betas right like it is uh you know wow

00:52:46   it feels like some senior person at apple really believed the pr about how great apple news was

00:52:53   and that how um and that they were going to just be able to to march on in here and solve

00:52:58   everybody's problem with their amazing product and all of us are like no apple news isn't that good

00:53:03   and you're bolting to to it something that doesn't work right and doesn't fit and the terms are bad

00:53:10   and publishers shouldn't agree to them like wow so i i wonder about this thing because

00:53:20   what i would say is if apple is committed to making apple news plus better and making the

00:53:24   apple news app better and making and working better with publishers i think they could fix

00:53:29   this and i think it could be a good product however i have seen zero evidence that apple

00:53:36   is actually committed to making news better and making better deals for publishers and making it

00:53:41   a more usable app zero effort and my apologies to those who use apple news i think it's not very good

00:53:47   and i think any and it's too complicated and any added complexity like a set of premium feeds

00:53:54   just makes it unusable so i i think it's a flop and i'd like to believe that apple

00:54:01   recognizes that it's a flop and that they need to completely reconceive it

00:54:04   but um they're gonna have to show it to me because i see no evidence that they get it

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00:57:07   sub stream time here we go hbo max who's max you say max is a new streaming service that's who they

00:57:14   are this is the streaming service that hbo was created to try and compete against disney plus

00:57:20   and netflix and you may say to yourself but mike what about hbo now and go well you need to already

00:57:27   be a hbo customer right to get now and go well not to get go now is over the top and i i think

00:57:36   it's gonna die yeah it probably will i think this is literally going to replace it that if you want

00:57:43   to get hbo content you need to subscribe to hbo max and the hbo now product i would not be surprised

00:57:48   if this is literally going to be hbo now that it's literally they're going to take the tech they use

00:57:53   to build it convert everybody's subscriptions and say it's all of hbo plus now you get friends

00:58:00   reruns yay yeah but so they will also have and this is one thing that none of their services have

00:58:06   right now um but max is going to have original content that will live in the streaming service so

00:58:14   they have announced a bunch of deals with a bunch of big names people like reese witherspoon she's

00:58:19   got two project projects with a hello sunshine company she is a powerhouse in this age uh anna

00:58:25   kendrick nicole kibman many more there's a i'm going to put a link in the show notes to a variety

00:58:30   article where they break down all the original content they've got lots of tv shows lots of

00:58:34   movies lots of original stuff uh is coming to hbo max um again we don't know what it's going to be

00:58:41   like uh of course as well a vast array of warner content for example friends this will be the place

00:58:47   that you will have to watch friends if you're in the us there is some question about international

00:58:52   rights which is like a whole other thing so we talked about this at length on the tv talk machine

00:58:58   podcast that i do with tim goodman uh episode 225 we'll put a link in the show notes last week

00:59:03   and we had a nice letter on that episode from joe steel our friend and uh one of his points is

00:59:10   that yeah all the international rights are sold in in various markets for a long time so that's

00:59:15   going to stall their international rollout for a long time they also made a lot of bad mistakes or

00:59:20   at least they lacked foresight for what they were going to do so like harry potter is sold to nbc

00:59:25   universal until 2025 or something like that so they can't get the harry potter stuff that they

00:59:30   it's their product but they can't put it on their service until the mid mid 2020s like it is

00:59:37   uh kind of a mess but this is what happens when you change direction uh rapidly in a year

00:59:45   basically with a new owner and that's okay prepared for it that's the key one media had a plan

00:59:51   at and t do not want one immediate plan no they want a new plan and i i'm gonna say too uh and

00:59:57   i talked about this with tim um i do believe that hbo now will just be retired or turned into hbo

01:00:04   max um the differentiator there hbo now is actually really a bold move it was the idea that you could

01:00:09   get you could not subscribe to any traditional cable service and you could still stream hbo

01:00:14   so hbo go is you know for people who have cable and have an hbo subscription and you get hbo go

01:00:21   so you can stream it too like me hbo now you're a cord cutter you don't need anything you just

01:00:26   pay them directly and you get hbo's content as a stream which is great it was a bold move on their

01:00:31   part because it's a it's saying you don't need to pay our our big source of money cable companies

01:00:37   and satellite companies you can just pay us and we'll give you our shows and like it was a big

01:00:41   move the problem is you know disney comes out they say they're going to be cheap at launch with their

01:00:45   streaming service they need a warner media streaming service but how do you price it if

01:00:50   you already have an over top over the top streaming service all it is is hbo and it costs way more than

01:00:56   any of your competitors already i think the answer is going to be you don't offer that anymore you

01:01:02   turn that into this hbo max that's got even more content in it for that price or maybe even an

01:01:09   introductory price that's lower than that and if all you want is hbo you can get that through

01:01:16   cable but if you want to do it over the top stream you need hbo max and you'll pay for that and you'll

01:01:23   get all of this extra stuff i think that's where there's there has not been any reporting but i

01:01:27   cannot it seems by far the most logical thing for them to do and honestly i think this is the right

01:01:34   move i think they've got a lot going against them because they're saddled with bad contracts

01:01:38   bad deals bad international like this is going to be really rough for a while but i think it's the

01:01:44   right thing to do because hbo is a good brand warner is not warner is an old brand if you're

01:01:52   80 or 100 years old or really like looney tunes warner is a great brand but honestly

01:01:56   yeah but honestly it's a bad brand like hbo game we have the height of game of thrones right like

01:02:04   hbo is a brand that means good tv and i think that it's the best piece of of branding they've got so

01:02:13   they ought to ride it and they've got this group at hbo and again this is that story that we talked

01:02:17   about where it's you know the they get on stage and they tell the people at hbo thanks for being

01:02:21   very profitable and winning lots of awards you've got a double or triple or quadruple your output

01:02:26   because we live in a different world now and that at&t executive was kind of a jerk um you know the

01:02:32   the uh president of hbo who's been who was so successful tried to spin it he ended up quitting

01:02:38   or being shown the door regardless but he's out they've got new people in there the way they did

01:02:44   it just like with their current position with all their contracts the way they did it not great i

01:02:47   think that's hbo or that's at&t uh maybe being more abrasive than they need to be but were they

01:02:52   right i think they were i think you you look at hbo and say thank you for winning at this game

01:02:58   that was the way to win 10 years ago it's not your fault that the world has changed but the world has

01:03:04   changed i mean i went through this when i talked to people who are doing print journalism and i

01:03:08   said you got to do the web it's the same thing it's like you're not doing a bad job but the job

01:03:13   you're doing can't exist anymore the world is changing around you yeah we need to do something

01:03:18   new so taking the hbo development engine and also pouring in turner and and the stuff they've got

01:03:23   there like adult swim and they've got a bunch of comedy stuff on on tbs and they've got uh you know

01:03:28   they've got conor o'brien's over there and samantha b is over there and then they got john oliver over

01:03:33   here like there's some good stuff there right but like hbo you're really good at making great stuff

01:03:37   that people like and people like your brand and your new task is you're gonna have to make a lot

01:03:42   more of it because we need to program a giant streaming service and so it's been ugly it's

01:03:46   gonna be ugly and i think they're doing exactly the right thing it's just gonna be hard because

01:03:51   of all the decisions that have been made over the last 10 years by people who are probably not even

01:03:56   there anymore certainly the old owners and probably old management and they're gonna have

01:04:01   to unwind all that stuff because they didn't have those people did not have the foresight

01:04:06   to realize like disney did um a lot sooner that they have to go direct a consumer with a streaming

01:04:13   service so it'll be interesting to watch i think they've got a great library even so it is going

01:04:17   to be messy but i do think that they've got a lot of compelling stuff and um and we'll see how it

01:04:22   goes but like i i think it'll be um i think it'll be a player i'm i'm intrigued by it even though

01:04:28   it's yeah yeah there's hey we're the company that brought you harry potter we don't have harry potter

01:04:34   ouch but we got a game of thrones spin-off how about that have they the yeah there's a game of

01:04:40   thrones spin-off in the works the question is i assume that will run on hbo but of course i

01:04:45   imagine that hbo max will be a superset it will be literally everything that's on hbo plus originals

01:04:53   and catalog content uh and and so um the hbo or the game of thrones spin-off will presumably

01:05:00   premiere on hbo and also be on hbo max so they'll be able to promote it that way it's interesting

01:05:04   that they have gone with the hbo brand right like that they're rolling all of warner media stuff

01:05:08   under hbo like they know where they're where they're it's the best it's the best name they

01:05:12   they own right i mean i are they going to call it like the turner or the warner or the those are

01:05:16   corporate names like tbs tnt like it's not going to be the hbo we know but it is a name that people

01:05:23   recognize and it has positive associations it is a symbol of quality they win lots of awards

01:05:29   i it's the best they got and i think better that than they invent a new a new name for it some

01:05:34   weird hulu kind of name for it like don't even just hbo max max is it's a weird name i guess they

01:05:42   didn't want to be hbo plus because everybody else is a plus but maybe that meant they should have

01:05:47   been but but using hbo as the brand it's the right way to go i don't know if it'll work but i think

01:05:53   it's the best of the the best hand for them to play let's put it that way based on the cards

01:05:57   they've been dealt by the previous regime yep set to debut in spring 2020 um no word about

01:06:03   international availability which is a surprise i mean but as we said right if they they might not

01:06:08   want to do it until they can unwind some of those deals so it might be like 2021 2022 i thought i

01:06:12   read somewhere they're going to put it in beta this fall and i don't know what that means other

01:06:17   than maybe what they'll be doing again if my theory holds they'll just start adding some

01:06:20   catalog content to hbo now but it is funny that like friends will leave netflix at the end of the

01:06:27   year but most people might not even be able to watch it for a few months yeah well my guess my

01:06:32   guess is that's an example if they do this beta thing is that friends will just show up on hbo

01:06:36   now yeah at that point and and and they'll be transitioning it to hbo max or they'll call it

01:06:40   hbo max but it won't all be there it won't be originals it'll just be the the stuff that was

01:06:45   in hbo now that's my guess but we'll see apple tv plus's c s ee is as expensive as we thought it was

01:06:52   rumored to be one of the most expensive tv shows of all time and the wall shoot journal is reporting

01:06:57   that apple has spent nearly 15 million dollars per episode on the jason mamoa sci-fi drama

01:07:02   i'd put this into context house of cards cost 4.5 million dollars an episode so huge massive yeah

01:07:10   altered altered carbon i know um cost a lot of money that was i think previously had been

01:07:16   discussed as possibly being the most expensive tv show ever made per episode um and game of

01:07:21   thrones obviously has cost a fortune so it might be but we we had heard and we said and people were

01:07:26   like where did you hear that and it's like uh places i am not able to reveal my sources but

01:07:30   definitely heard through the grapevine that it was incredibly expensive and so it was fun to see this

01:07:34   story that it's like yeah it's 15 million per episode that's what it cost yeah so whoever is

01:07:39   the most expensive or not it kind of doesn't matter it's in the very very top top tippy top

01:07:44   tier which is bold for a company that doesn't have any track record uh we're producing content

01:07:52   um you know because like the reason i bring out house of cards that was the breakout for netflix

01:07:57   yeah that was their first major original and it was costing them a third of the cost

01:08:03   by the end now i know sci-fi is obviously more expensive to make if you want to do it properly

01:08:09   um but it is just a very interesting thing and also this report talks about and it rounds up

01:08:14   some other stuff so the morning show so jennifer aniston reese with the spoon steve corral they

01:08:20   are all earning over a million dollars each for appearing in it per episode uh so that's another

01:08:26   thing to think about the reason i bring that up you'd couple that in with the 15 million dollar

01:08:31   cost per episode or something like see i think apple just don't care about that 1 billion dollar

01:08:35   budget anymore like that that budget that number that we heard about 1 billion dollars i don't

01:08:41   think that that is a thing because they are pouring money into this like i it seems like at this point

01:08:47   you just got to ignore that billion they're putting in as much as they want to put in now i think

01:08:51   that's a lot of money being thrown around you gotta you know you gotta make a you got the money you

01:08:57   gotta make a strong impression you gotta have stuff that you feel like how does apple this is

01:09:02   a good question we've been debating how does apple differentiate apple tv plus because it's just more

01:09:08   shows like hey we got shows but they can't do what they do with apple products right where it's like

01:09:14   we we have made something that nobody else could make they're literally just working with tv

01:09:17   producers to make tv shows so how do you do it i gotta say one way you do it just spend more money

01:09:23   because you're apple and then you say we are we are making tv at a level that no one else can

01:09:28   because they can't afford it like netflix can afford it but netflix has to do a lot of shows

01:09:32   and they're they're being a little more ruthless with it and they can afford it and they will but

01:09:36   like that's one way to play with the big boys well and also there's like a different economy

01:09:39   right like netflix has to make their money by making good tv right so like they have to make

01:09:45   good stuff to make the money that they need to make more stuff well apple has a literal press

01:09:52   like money printing press so they can just keep pouring money in and it won't be a problem because

01:09:58   they make so much of it that they've just got it sitting around right like they could just keep

01:10:03   doing this every single show could be a flop but it doesn't matter because they can just keep

01:10:08   putting more money into it if they want to right like if netflix all of their shows for a year flop

01:10:14   that's going to harm them for the next year but for apple it doesn't matter it just doesn't matter

01:10:21   they can just keep doing it and that is what makes them a threat but they still may fail

01:10:27   spectacularly we just don't know yet right but it's like they could just the money doesn't matter

01:10:31   we'll just keep putting more money into it until until it works or completely flames out

01:10:36   yep should we do some follow-up it's a good thing for the show yeah yeah let's do some follow-up um

01:10:44   i have as of today put the ipad os beta on my ipad congratulations you know i've been talking

01:10:51   about it i haven't done it i've finally done it i'm very excited about it i like a lot of it a lot

01:10:59   it's buggy like a beta is right like it's just stuff's weird in places using a mouse is as

01:11:06   incredible as i wanted it to be i think it's fantastic it makes me very happy i love the new

01:11:12   home screen and the window stuff is it's taking some time i'm trying to get used to it it's it's

01:11:18   difficult because the apps that i would want to use i can't right like i can't use google docs

01:11:23   and google sheets yet because they don't support that the window windowing feature um but i like

01:11:29   although you could although you can load it in a safari desktop view well uh kind of works

01:11:34   i would say that the google differently doesn't work the google docs stuff is is good in a browser

01:11:40   window it is not perfect like trying to select text and copy and paste is is not good right now

01:11:46   and i i don't know what apple can do to try and fix that but i would like to see them do that um

01:11:52   somehow it's basically the system and google docs on the web are fighting against each other as to

01:11:57   who owns the cursor talking about that i'm struggling to get used to the cursor placement

01:12:03   stuff and the copy and paste things um because the the little tips the little tool tips you ever

01:12:09   call them they still pop up and i wasn't expecting that so i'm still trying to get my head around

01:12:15   a lot of the text stuff uh i've been like looking at apple's website and trying to get trying to

01:12:20   like understand the gestures like i can't do that i cannot seem to do the one where you can just

01:12:26   tap and select like just drag and select a block of text i'm struggling with that one so i'm still

01:12:33   trying to get used to it uh but a lot of what's in here is really great dark mode is awesome i

01:12:38   think it looks fantastic uh so yeah i'm i'm i am looking forward to seeing more of what's going on

01:12:48   so i'm very excited about it yeah it really is the the typical beta thing where there are apps that

01:12:53   you should be a lot better but they've got to be updated to support it and unless you're on a beta

01:12:58   of something test flight beta you're not going to see that stuff and google you know it's google

01:13:02   will do it six months later that'll be great when they do it but they're going to do it six months

01:13:06   later because they always do um a couple of apps just launch and then quit which is fine like

01:13:11   fair enough it's a beta and uh the files app is one that is funny because there's so much

01:13:17   work in progress on the files app in terms of adding um external device support and server

01:13:23   support and stuff like that and it's i found like from beta to beta features come and go

01:13:30   again that's that's beta life but i have had it on my ipad for quite a while now and um

01:13:37   and i'm still using it and it's still fine i've managed to get by so that's that's good

01:13:42   hashtag snow talk question to open the show as we always do you can send in a tweet with the

01:13:46   hashtag snow talk and it can be included in a future episode uh a question this time comes

01:13:52   from scott scott wants to know is it acceptable to wear air pods in the bathroom

01:13:58   um um okay this is a funny question i would say

01:14:04   if you're on the phone with somebody you should not be talking to them from the bathroom it depends

01:14:11   how close you are but i would say i would mostly agree with you i don't think there's anybody in

01:14:16   the world i would want to talk to when i'm in the bathroom but i know that that's the thing for some

01:14:20   people yeah i guess i i would i would caution against it um if you're just listening to stuff

01:14:25   i don't think i have a problem with it in terms of acceptability i will warn you you are at risk of

01:14:30   dropping your air pods uh down the drain or in the toilet or wherever a place that it should not go

01:14:37   because then you would have to put it back in your ear afterward and that's not a good idea so i think

01:14:42   if you're going to use any technology in the bathroom the air pods are in the level of it's

01:14:47   okay because you're touching the other technology right like you're touching your phone or whatever

01:14:53   when you're in the bathroom at least the air pods that go in the ears and they stay there so in

01:14:58   theory they're more acceptable well i mean i i bring my phone into the bathroom just to press

01:15:03   play and you know and put it on a speaker and listen to it in the shower that's not the same as

01:15:09   um you know yeah again hygiene is important this is what i'm going to say hygiene is important you

01:15:15   got to be wear dropping your air pods in a place that you um are not going to be able to retrieve

01:15:19   them or won't want to retrieve them and there's some social issues in terms of um nobody wants

01:15:25   to be on a conference call where you're talking to them and then they hear a flush that's a bad idea

01:15:28   that's not good so i would say watch out for those but more broadly if you're you wander into the

01:15:34   bathroom and you've got your air pods in um sure i find that acceptable that's not my devices in

01:15:42   the bathroom i've i i see no shame in this i will be that person that's fair i will be that person

01:15:48   that's fair hey mike did you know that it's um i was in boston over the weekend and i got to

01:15:54   experience a really nice kind of like a warm like a hot summer which is fun yeah back here in san

01:15:58   francisco we don't get that a lot from relay fm this is upgrade episode 254 today's show is brought

01:16:05   to you by linode butcher box and hello my name is mike hurley i am joined by mr jason snell hi jason

01:16:11   snow hello mike hurley