248: Seven Layer Burrito of Innovation


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:08   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 248.

00:00:13   Today's show is brought to you by Lunar Display, Squarespace, and ExpressVPN.

00:00:19   My name is Myke Hurley, and I am joined across this podcasting table in San Jose, California by Jason Snell. Hi, Jason Snell.

00:00:26   Myke, I love it when we do Upgrades live and in person. It's the best.

00:00:29   And there's no better live and in person upgrade than WWDC Upgrade.

00:00:34   We are like two hours removed from the keynote, and there was a good reason for that,

00:00:40   because you actually got to spend a little bit of time with the brand new Mac Pro.

00:00:45   I touched a Mac Pro.

00:00:46   But we're going to talk about that a little later on in the episode.

00:00:49   We are issuing most of our usual format today because there's way too much to talk about.

00:00:53   However, let's talk about the draft.

00:00:55   So in our last episode, in case you knew around here, we did a predictions draft,

00:01:00   where we will go through a list of things and score them, and then it comes out on the other end and we see who won.

00:01:05   I don't think we need to dive into this one, because we have done a lot of adjudication in the background.

00:01:10   I will say, first off, I've got a few statements, opening statements about the draft.

00:01:14   One is, this was—I'm a little worried that we are a little too predictable.

00:01:19   I know that you on Connected last week did the Ricky pics,

00:01:24   where you made things that are extra special risky.

00:01:27   I want to consider possibly forcing us to make some riskier pics in some of our pics down the road,

00:01:33   because I feel like part of it is this was packed,

00:01:36   and all of these things that we thought would happen basically happened.

00:01:41   And so our scores, I think this was the best performance we've ever done on a draft.

00:01:44   Yes, this was the best performance.

00:01:45   I understand what you're saying, but I just think that we picked well,

00:01:49   because we had a lot of things available to us and a lot of things that felt possible.

00:01:54   I just wonder if maybe there's one or two pics that should be forced out of our comfort zones,

00:01:57   just to make it more interesting.

00:01:59   I'm always up for adapting the rules.

00:02:01   Because the score, as we agreed on in the end after some adjudication,

00:02:05   we did have to call in Stephen Hackett to make a judgment.

00:02:09   The scores ended up 9-9.

00:02:10   9-9. So the things that the two of us did not get,

00:02:14   Jason, we did not score a new TV-related partnership.

00:02:17   The BBC, I could say something about the BBC taking pictures of fish,

00:02:21   but that was not what I meant.

00:02:23   No, and Apple Arcade being shown off.

00:02:26   So there was a moment in the presentation where Tim spoke about Apple Arcade,

00:02:31   and there was a moment in the TV demo where they showed an Apple Arcade game,

00:02:36   but I think really, honestly, even though I really wanted the point,

00:02:40   that was not what I was talking about.

00:02:41   I was expecting there to be much more about Apple Arcade in the overall presentation,

00:02:45   which there wasn't.

00:02:47   So that one, we lost in that.

00:02:49   So we went to...

00:02:50   I sent an overcast clip to Stephen Hackett.

00:02:52   You did.

00:02:52   And he said, "That's not a pick."

00:02:54   So we didn't have to get into it.

00:02:56   But that means that we were tied.

00:02:57   We were tied.

00:02:58   And so that means we went to the tiebreaker.

00:03:01   How many times did Tim Cook appear on stage?

00:03:03   I think we both counted four, but it definitely wasn't more than five.

00:03:06   I got five.

00:03:07   Okay, but it wasn't more than five.

00:03:07   Which is the same as last year, and I got up to five.

00:03:10   Yep.

00:03:10   And I think in the end, Myke,

00:03:14   me winning on a tiebreak instead of you came down to the fact that Tim presented

00:03:18   TVOS instead of handing it off to someone else.

00:03:21   If he had handed it off to someone else, it would have been fine.

00:03:24   So TVOS is my nemesis, basically.

00:03:25   But he just said, "Look, I'm not going to even bother bringing somebody out for TVOS.

00:03:29   We're going to just move on."

00:03:30   That's a shame.

00:03:31   But anyway, I will say, congratulations on your first WWDC win.

00:03:35   Thank you.

00:03:36   Yes, a long time coming.

00:03:36   Congratulations on your second draft win this year.

00:03:39   It's not looking good for me.

00:03:40   Yeah, but this is the closest.

00:03:42   There's an asterisk next to this one because it was with a tiebreak,

00:03:46   and it was disputed and adjudicated and all of that.

00:03:48   As I say, if I'm going to lose...

00:03:49   Together, we did a pretty good...

00:03:50   Also, we totally messed up the name of macOS, but that was a bonus point.

00:03:54   Who cares?

00:03:55   Catalina wasn't even on all this.

00:03:57   Catalina Wine Mixer.

00:03:58   That keeps popping into my head.

00:04:00   I looked it up.

00:04:00   It's a joke from the movie Step Brothers.

00:04:03   So my theory, by the way, Catalina is because the thing formerly known as

00:04:07   marzipan is called catalyst.

00:04:10   So it's catalyst in Catalina.

00:04:12   So more cats with OS.

00:04:13   Okay, I can see that.

00:04:15   I did notice that there was a bunch of cat sounds.

00:04:18   Uh-oh, they've returned to cats.

00:04:20   Yes.

00:04:20   It's now just the word cat.

00:04:22   There are other words that come after it.

00:04:24   So cataract, catapults, catamaran, macOS catamaran.

00:04:28   Here we go.

00:04:29   We're doing it, everyone.

00:04:30   No, let's do this.

00:04:31   Let's talk about the keynote.

00:04:32   We're not going to necessarily go in time all that.

00:04:36   There's actually massive sections that we're not going to talk about today.

00:04:39   It's too much.

00:04:39   We're not going to talk about watchOS.

00:04:41   We're not going to talk about tvOS.

00:04:42   But I did want to talk about the intro with you because it's kind of upstreamy.

00:04:47   One, Tim came out and spoke a bunch about services, which seemed like a complete

00:04:51   waste of time after a really wonderful video, which I think was a...

00:04:55   I liked the video.

00:04:56   It was showing a connection with developers.

00:04:59   We understand your struggle.

00:05:02   And you go setting it up like that, and you're like, "Oh, now I'm going to talk

00:05:06   for 15 minutes about something you cannot participate in.

00:05:09   And here's a trailer of a TV show Ron Moore made."

00:05:11   Right.

00:05:11   So it reminded me of, I think, last year or the year before where they did that

00:05:17   trailer, the one that Craig Hockenberry and Jim Dalrymple were in.

00:05:21   Was that last year?

00:05:22   Or two years ago?

00:05:23   I think that was two years ago.

00:05:24   All right.

00:05:24   So what struck me about the intro video this year is that I think they were much

00:05:30   more careful about the tone of it than they were two years ago, where they had kind of

00:05:35   a jokey tone with kind of like people who've been in the community a long time

00:05:39   that you recognize.

00:05:40   Pushing each other over.

00:05:41   And this time what they tried to do is, like, they showed a lot of people in

00:05:44   different countries.

00:05:46   They showed men and women.

00:05:47   They showed people of different races.

00:05:48   Ages?

00:05:49   They did different ages.

00:05:50   They didn't make nerd jokes.

00:05:53   They didn't show...

00:05:54   I know that they showed people working late into the night sometimes, but I felt that

00:05:58   it was delicate and they were not saying, "You have no work-life balance."

00:06:02   In fact, showing the one guy holding the baby and all of that.

00:06:06   Like, I think this was something that was discussed at a deeper level than maybe

00:06:11   previous videos were.

00:06:12   And it had a beautiful tagline, which was, "While the world sleeps, you dream."

00:06:16   Yeah.

00:06:17   Which is just so wonderful.

00:06:18   And I like it.

00:06:18   That's better.

00:06:19   I understand the thought of, like, "Oh, they're showing people working late and

00:06:23   crunching."

00:06:24   What they're showing is people that want to make something happen for themselves.

00:06:27   These are probably people that have, like, day jobs and they want to make an app.

00:06:30   Like, I...

00:06:31   It's meant to be inspirational.

00:06:32   And I think they did a better job of making it inclusive.

00:06:33   I guess somebody who lived a life like that, right?

00:06:35   To try and get to where I wanted to go, I like the message.

00:06:39   But I think it was kind of crazy to then just segue into the trailer.

00:06:44   The trailer, though, does look really good.

00:06:46   Yeah, I think that's why they showed it.

00:06:48   It looks really good.

00:06:49   I think they got some stick from people about not showing anything at their

00:06:53   services event.

00:06:54   And they figured a sci-fi series from Ron Moore, from Battlestar Galactica.

00:06:58   And I like how they mentioned Star Trek because he was a producer on Next

00:07:01   Generation and Deep Space Nine and Voyager, maybe, briefly.

00:07:05   And so they wanted to, like, use Star Trek as a little imprimatur.

00:07:08   Although, in the Tim Cook voice, it became Star Trek, which I don't think is Star

00:07:13   Trek.

00:07:13   I think that's just how he says Star Trek.

00:07:15   He likes Star Trek.

00:07:17   So I thought it looked great.

00:07:19   And Stephen Hackett was, like, five seats down from me, so I didn't get to exchange

00:07:22   a view from him.

00:07:23   But as somebody who's a space fan, it sounds like they're going hard into the

00:07:27   history of, like, the people you know and the NASA you know, but they got beat to the

00:07:30   moon and what happens next.

00:07:31   It looks really good.

00:07:32   It is cool.

00:07:32   It looks very carefully designed, like, the spacecraft look right and all that.

00:07:36   It looks great.

00:07:36   It looks really good.

00:07:37   But I think ultimately Tim saw it and was like, this is great.

00:07:40   Let's show it to developers.

00:07:41   Yeah.

00:07:42   So they did.

00:07:43   It's kind of like, oh, we're going to give them the Mac Pro later on.

00:07:47   Like, oh, it won't be a problem.

00:07:49   They'll be fine with it then.

00:07:50   Yeah.

00:07:52   OK.

00:07:52   Let's just jump into iOS.

00:07:54   Let's jump in.

00:07:56   iOS.

00:07:56   You mean the operating system that runs iPhone and iPod Touch?

00:08:00   Yeah.

00:08:00   Yeah.

00:08:01   Let's pause that for a minute.

00:08:03   So look, we all knew that dark mode was pretty on schedule for this year.

00:08:07   That was my first pick in the draft.

00:08:08   Right.

00:08:09   That was.

00:08:09   Yeah.

00:08:09   Because it felt like it was late anyway.

00:08:12   Right.

00:08:12   Like, it feels like we should have had it for years and years and years.

00:08:17   But we've got, I don't know, we got it now.

00:08:19   I'm really intrigued to see more information from developers.

00:08:23   You know, like, once all the sessions start happening, how hard, how easy is it

00:08:27   going to be to implement as a third party developer to make your app look that way?

00:08:34   Right.

00:08:34   We don't know any of that information yet.

00:08:36   The State of the Union is happening right now as we record.

00:08:38   So I'm sure that some of that information is getting out there.

00:08:41   As always, you know, we're getting this out as quick as we can.

00:08:43   But they'll need to do some work.

00:08:44   However, I was taking notes in an app in a dark mode while also tweeting from an app

00:08:49   with a dark mode in iOS.

00:08:51   So I feel like a lot of app developers have already done the work to build their own

00:08:55   dark mode and now they're going to be able to just flip that over.

00:08:58   But yes, there will also have to be some...

00:08:59   I am going to be dark mode probably all the time.

00:09:02   All of the system stuff looked way nicer, you know, like the kind of, like,

00:09:06   dark frosted as opposed to, like, I think it looked fantastic.

00:09:09   I'm not a fan of dark mode in Mojave, but I think on my iPhone and maybe my iPad,

00:09:15   but certainly on my iPhone, I will give it a try.

00:09:18   You can schedule it too.

00:09:19   That's great.

00:09:20   That's actually one of the big things because that was, I actually flipped all my

00:09:23   stuff into dark mode during the keynote when they dropped the lights because the

00:09:27   white screens were too much.

00:09:29   So being able to schedule that and also presumably flip it over on control center.

00:09:33   It's a system toggle in control center, yes.

00:09:35   But I like the toggle part of it too.

00:09:37   I think that's really great.

00:09:38   But yes, so dark mode looks fantastic, but I don't think there's much more to say

00:09:43   about it.

00:09:43   Let's just keep moving on.

00:09:44   What did you think about the improvements to photos?

00:09:47   Well, you know, when you write a book about photos and you see massive changes to

00:09:51   photos, I literally sat there going, well, there's my summer.

00:09:55   Oh boy.

00:09:55   No, it's great.

00:09:57   It's great.

00:09:57   Photos hasn't been reconceived since it was made.

00:10:00   I really liked the UI, like the floating kind of selection bar that you would tap on.

00:10:06   And they're trying really hard to find ways to apply that machine learning stuff to

00:10:11   get garbage out of the way because it's totally true.

00:10:15   You see too many duplicates.

00:10:18   You take eight shots of people posing together.

00:10:20   You don't need to see all eight shots.

00:10:22   You know, by default, when you're just kind of scanning through, you only need to see

00:10:25   one and having it throw out screenshots and stuff like that.

00:10:28   I have a lot of those because I write about this stuff, but people take screenshots and

00:10:31   you don't want to do that.

00:10:32   So it's good.

00:10:33   I'm keen to see what this actually means though.

00:10:34   Like, are they deleting them?

00:10:36   Are they just hiding them from general view?

00:10:38   No, they're hiding.

00:10:38   So there's an all photos tab, but if you're in any of the other tabs, it doesn't show

00:10:42   all photos by default.

00:10:43   It's showing you kind of like the ones that it's selected as highlights.

00:10:46   Right.

00:10:46   Okay.

00:10:47   It's it doesn't, I really am looking forward to digging into it because it strikes me as

00:10:51   being an extension of what they've been doing with the last couple of versions of photos

00:10:55   where they're trying to rethink.

00:10:57   No, they're really just trying to, you know, in the end, what the deal is with photos is

00:11:01   everybody's got too many photos.

00:11:03   And the goal is to try to find ways with machine learning to float up things that you want

00:11:09   to see that you would otherwise never see.

00:11:10   And they've been doing that for a while now.

00:11:12   And I think this version, they got to do an interface refresh to kind of like push that

00:11:17   more forward than the old interface allowed them to do.

00:11:22   And do editing tools, which are great.

00:11:25   You know, there's more, more functions with video.

00:11:28   Yeah.

00:11:28   The iOS version was behind the Mac version on editing tools.

00:11:33   You could do a lot of stuff, but there was still stuff that was missing.

00:11:35   And then the video thing, I mean, one of the things I like about Craig Federighi's on stage

00:11:40   presence is that he's jokey in a way where he put, he's allowed to poke fun at Apple

00:11:46   in a way that Apple doesn't do a lot.

00:11:49   Yeah.

00:11:50   But he, I think he has the personality that he can carry off in a way that some of the

00:11:55   other presenters I don't think would be able to.

00:11:57   I agree.

00:11:58   I agree.

00:11:59   He has, he has got that fun loving guy persona and they've used him as a vehicle for jokes

00:12:03   for years now.

00:12:04   You could look at it and be like, oh, that lovable scamp, like he's doing it on his own

00:12:07   and no one sees his presentation.

00:12:09   Exactly.

00:12:10   And also I think with WWDC especially, he connects with developers.

00:12:15   They not only do they cheer him because he's like their guy, but he gets them on a level

00:12:19   that maybe some of the other people don't because they're in product marketing or something

00:12:24   like that.

00:12:25   But he's a, he's a computer nerd.

00:12:27   Exactly.

00:12:28   And so that allows him to do things like talk about the fact, like later he talked about

00:12:34   some other things that we'll get to.

00:12:36   But here, you know, the ability to rotate video where he was sort of like, oh, you can

00:12:40   rotate a video now.

00:12:42   That's nice.

00:12:43   Right.

00:12:44   I thought that they messed up the presentation, right?

00:12:45   Because they started showing video and the video's in the wrong orientation.

00:12:48   I was like, oh, that doesn't look very good.

00:12:49   Although I see that all the time.

00:12:51   Right.

00:12:52   And then they rotated and then you apply different filters and stuff to it.

00:12:55   It's great.

00:12:56   So I'm glad I will dig in.

00:12:57   There will probably be like 50 other things they didn't mention.

00:13:00   One theme of this keynote, and you saw it on the live stream.

00:13:03   We saw it when we were there.

00:13:04   It never stopped.

00:13:06   It was a ridiculous pace.

00:13:08   And I will say, I think it's the densest keynote from Apple I've ever seen.

00:13:14   It reminded me of two years ago when they, when they showed off the new iPad stuff, right,

00:13:21   in 11 and they showed off the iMac Pro.

00:13:23   That was two years ago, right?

00:13:25   Yeah.

00:13:26   It reminded me of that one because it was like that year, the kind of the phrase that

00:13:29   the joke was, this was the year everybody got what they wanted.

00:13:33   And it feels like that was the case again this year, but it was more of it.

00:13:36   And they, they just didn't stop.

00:13:38   There were multiple features that I thought they could have spent 20 minutes on that they

00:13:42   spent less than five.

00:13:43   Reminders.

00:13:44   I feel like I know nothing about a brand new big application.

00:13:49   They showed off a bunch of features that were really exciting.

00:13:50   Kind of like a bullet point, right?

00:13:52   But I haven't gotten my head around it all yet.

00:13:54   So like I still need to dig in about reminders because I can see something's changed.

00:13:57   I can see it's huge, but they just blasted through.

00:14:01   Which was a, that was a big surprise to me.

00:14:03   One that they did spend a lot of time on because it lent in with privacy was sign in with Apple.

00:14:08   This is kind of fascinating.

00:14:09   Yeah, it's definitely a middle finger at Facebook and Google who they put on the slide.

00:14:15   But it's the idea that they know app developers.

00:14:19   I think of it, I mean, this is going to be on the web too, but they're thinking of it

00:14:23   from the perspective of like app developers want to set up an account and they're using

00:14:29   these easy setup techniques that basically authorize you through someone else's thing.

00:14:33   But then it's a privacy hole.

00:14:35   And the reason you do that is because then you are not responsible, right?

00:14:38   So like as a developer, you don't want to be the one responsible for dealing with the

00:14:42   user creation, the account creation, all of the data, and then potentially any risks,

00:14:47   security or otherwise of holding that information, right?

00:14:50   So you hand over the ability for the login to be held by a Google or a Facebook and then

00:14:57   you can build on their tools.

00:14:59   But now Apple's doing it instead and it gives people more of an option and what looks like

00:15:04   a much more private and more secure way of doing it, the fake email address thing is

00:15:10   genius.

00:15:11   Yeah, so you're getting Facebook and Google out of the game of being able to use their

00:15:17   easy login in exchange for data points for users.

00:15:21   And the email thing, Dan Morin was sitting next to me and he actually wrote a piece about

00:15:25   this, I think earlier this year, about how this was a way for Apple to have its commitment

00:15:30   to privacy kind of redoubled in terms of email.

00:15:34   So Apple, you know, saying if you don't want to give these people your email, your actual

00:15:39   email address, you can give them a routing email address that's randomly generated.

00:15:44   And if you're tired of seeing the emails from them, you just turn that off and it's gone.

00:15:49   And so if they want to use it or resell it or whatever, it doesn't matter.

00:15:52   It's been thrown into a black hole basically at Apple and it's gone.

00:15:57   I mean, what a great way to find out what companies are selling your data.

00:16:01   If you see, like, I don't know if they expose the email address that it's sent to, right?

00:16:06   Like, I don't know if you as a user will get to see it if it's forwarded to you.

00:16:10   But I think that it's absolutely fascinating as a thing to do.

00:16:15   And I'm really keen to see if it's something that catches on.

00:16:19   I'm keen to see what happens there.

00:16:21   I figure if you are a developer who already offers these systems, then why not do it?

00:16:26   And as a user, I have some questions about, like, so do I lose all of the ability to manage

00:16:35   that account at that point?

00:16:37   Like does it just all go to Apple?

00:16:39   Like I'm not so sure.

00:16:40   I'm keen to see how that ends up.

00:16:41   Yeah, I don't know.

00:16:42   But I mean, it makes sense, especially on apps.

00:16:44   I do, they mentioned that it also work on any device and on the web.

00:16:49   That is really interesting because that's also Apple saying we will guard your privacy

00:16:56   even on the web if websites want to use this as the way for you not to have to register

00:17:01   for an account and put in your new password and all of that.

00:17:04   The websites implement this, we're not tracking you.

00:17:08   And that's going to be a bonus over using Facebook or Google.

00:17:12   Definitely.

00:17:13   I was concerned before this event about shortcuts that I thought shortcuts would not make it

00:17:20   into the keynote this year.

00:17:21   It kind of did.

00:17:22   Kind of.

00:17:23   It got kind of conflated into Siri a little bit.

00:17:26   But what it got, I mean, what makes sense, I think it's in the Siri organization, right?

00:17:30   Yeah, it is.

00:17:31   But what shortcuts got was very interesting is that it's built in now.

00:17:36   Yes.

00:17:37   That's fascinating to me.

00:17:39   I really wonder what made that change.

00:17:42   I got a theory.

00:17:43   Go for it.

00:17:44   Which is that they added triggers.

00:17:49   They added shortcut automation with things like times.

00:17:53   There is automation in shortcuts but I do not know the extent of it yet.

00:17:57   Our friend Jammers in the chat room says automations include time location, opening specific apps

00:18:01   and NFC tags.

00:18:03   Oh my God.

00:18:04   Opening specific apps?

00:18:06   My guess is that once shortcuts ascends to a higher level like that, they need to just

00:18:14   sort of ride with the system.

00:18:15   Because it's like HomeKit.

00:18:17   I think the theory is once an app is so tied into the system that individual system updates

00:18:22   could potentially cause changes in the app, they want to keep them in sync.

00:18:26   They don't want the app and the system to ride separately.

00:18:28   That's the concern though.

00:18:30   The shortcuts app has been updated a lot.

00:18:33   Yeah, and it's not going to get updates except dot revisions.

00:18:35   Dot revisions of iOS updates.

00:18:37   But those dot updates happen.

00:18:40   And they can keep sneaking them in there.

00:18:43   That would be the hope.

00:18:44   But the exchange is power.

00:18:47   Time of day, alarm, Apple watch workout, arrive, leave location, connect to carplay, airplane

00:18:53   mode.

00:18:54   This is all stuff that was not in the demo but is on the website.

00:18:55   Because again we're in the bubble here where we have not been able.

00:18:57   And by the way, the Apple websites you showed me before we started, even the Apple websites

00:19:03   it's hard to get through because there's so much detail.

00:19:05   I've never seen the amount of detail.

00:19:08   So when you go to the preview pages for iOS or whatever, you have your kind of overview

00:19:14   but then there is a tab called all new features.

00:19:18   And it lists everything.

00:19:20   And it's enormous.

00:19:23   Which is exciting though because I will be digging through more of that.

00:19:26   But there's also a reference to more conversational in shortcuts.

00:19:32   I'm intrigued to see what that means.

00:19:34   Yeah, it sounds like there's some interaction that's possible in terms of like a follow-up

00:19:38   question where you give an answer.

00:19:41   I don't know exactly but it's the people on the shortcuts Reddit have gone mad with details

00:19:49   and digging in.

00:19:50   And this is one of those things that we'll bookmark in next week's episode.

00:19:54   We will be losing our minds over this stuff in detail.

00:19:57   Memoji no more.

00:19:59   It's clearly muhmoji.

00:20:00   Did you notice that?

00:20:02   No.

00:20:03   Everyone was calling it muhmoji.

00:20:04   Not memoji.

00:20:05   Everybody's just gotten over it.

00:20:07   Memoji is the name.

00:20:08   So Casey wins.

00:20:10   Casey called it memoji.

00:20:12   Everyone laughed at him.

00:20:13   Yep.

00:20:14   You can use memoji on your poly book or your MacBook mini pro.

00:20:19   I wondered if it was a slip up but everyone called it memoji.

00:20:22   So that's what it's called now.

00:20:24   I've really enjoyed the opening video that they had by the two fashion and beauty YouTubers.

00:20:29   That was hilarious.

00:20:31   When it started I was like oh I don't know but they killed it.

00:20:35   Adding AirPods in as an accessory.

00:20:38   Yeah.

00:20:39   That's hilarious.

00:20:40   No I think it's really good.

00:20:41   I was also thinking I had two thoughts during that.

00:20:43   One is when they were talking about makeup because these are beauty and fashion vloggers

00:20:48   basically those my daughter loves those and I thought oh you know this is so great but

00:20:55   she's not going to be able to use these makeup and accessories because and then they said

00:21:01   which is logical but you know Apple doesn't need to extend features back to old hardware

00:21:05   right like they talk about having the phones that are three years old run okay and they

00:21:12   did focus the first thing they did on iOS was talk about speed again which I think is

00:21:15   really great like face ID is faster and apps launch faster and apps are smaller when they

00:21:22   download like they clearly are also focused on that but what they don't usually do is

00:21:26   extend features backward several years but with Memoji because you don't need a face

00:21:34   ID scanner to put a character in those poses they've extended Memoji building back to older

00:21:43   devices which means my daughter even though she doesn't have an iPhone 10 or an iPad Pro

00:21:49   she can now build a Memoji and use the stickers if she wants to and that's really cool because

00:21:55   that's a thing that of course a lot of times it happens that we look at a feature and we're

00:22:00   like Apple could totally have rolled that back two versions but they chose not to there's

00:22:04   no technical reason why and here we see Apple doing it and rolling that feature backward

00:22:11   so that devices that couldn't support Memoji now can that's cool and I got exactly what

00:22:16   I wanted which was pre-made Memoji stickers Memoji stickers with all of the faces in there

00:22:24   I'm something I'm a little bit unclear on right now it made it look like they were going

00:22:28   to be in the emoji keyboard and could be used anywhere yeah that's what Tim said is that

00:22:33   is that those poses can be in the emoji keyboard on the website it says that Memoji automatically

00:22:39   becomes sticker packs that live in your keyboard so you can use them in messages mail and third-party

00:22:43   apps I'm not sure what it means I don't know what the details are but I desperately want

00:22:48   emoji with my face right that's what I want now so if they haven't given me that that's

00:22:54   what I want but it looked like it was in the keyboard so I need to see exactly what's going

00:22:59   on with this but the idea that if I could send all emoji now with my own face oh boy

00:23:05   yeah watch oh boy watch out everyone yes I'm gonna need a new feature where you can upload

00:23:10   a Memoji pack and then your emojis are all you okay I'm very excited I'm very excited

00:23:17   about this but I think from a pure like iOS on the iPhone perspective I think those are

00:23:24   the big things yeah right I think so like I said the the the focus on speed and performance

00:23:32   of you know they didn't mention older systems but I think it's there I think that this that

00:23:38   was their message that they wanted to restate again that they have that ability to to try

00:23:45   and get this thing to keep running faster that they haven't given up on that and I thought

00:23:49   that was I thought that was good other things swipe keyboard yep that that was good it's

00:23:57   you know a long time coming but I'm glad they finally you know basically accepted that yes

00:24:01   you can do that and as much as I like the Google Gboard keyboard I keep going back to

00:24:07   the Apple keyboard because Gboard fails in a bunch of other ways that have to do more

00:24:11   with the fact that it's not the primary system keyboard and so to have swiping on the primary

00:24:15   system keyboard is great the only thing that I miss is that Gboard has emoji search and

00:24:22   I can't believe they haven't added emoji search I it seems like such an easy thing to have

00:24:28   like it feels like it's not a particularly difficult feature because they've already

00:24:32   tagged all the emoji with words I have no idea that seems so wild to me and and some

00:24:39   of the stuff is like giving trying to catch up to Google like the map stuff with look

00:24:44   around is Street View basically but it's stuff that was missing that they're adding so that's

00:24:50   good it looked really good to the animation it did like it has nice fit and finish nice

00:24:55   touch from from Apple's perspective they did just as they had the message about performance

00:25:00   they had the message about privacy they they want to have a privacy message whenever they

00:25:04   talk about a new product and so in this case we got like there's this you know you can

00:25:09   share location once you can set that for an app just this one time they give you a report

00:25:15   about background tracking which is interesting because this week there was that New York

00:25:18   Times story about how these apps still wake up in the middle of the night and report your

00:25:22   location so you can you can be aware of what they're doing blocking apps from using Wi-Fi

00:25:28   or Bluetooth to scan around you in order to infer your location I thought that was very

00:25:33   clever and building a 10-day recording buffer for free with your iCloud account of security

00:25:40   cameras so many of those security cameras try to sell you on these you know video storage

00:25:45   things and then you're trusting your video to some random company and this is Apple saying

00:25:49   we will do it and not look and you get 10 days of recording for free that that is I

00:25:54   think bigger than it seems because of somebody who has bought some of these cameras I'm would

00:25:59   be much more comfortable not only I'm already paying Apple for storage so the fact that

00:26:04   I just get 10 days of storage is great but the fact that it's sort of an Apple who has

00:26:08   no desire or need to look through my video footage I really I like that and then the

00:26:15   it came in the Mac but it covers these other products too it's the find my update where

00:26:20   they're doing thing that's kind of like some of these other tracker devices but the difference

00:26:26   being that they're sending out a little ping saying I exist and other Apple devices see

00:26:31   that and it's all private and anonymized and encrypted.

00:26:34   Apple have just created the best tracking system available on the planet.

00:26:39   And they have solved the problem of oh no my thing wasn't on Wi-Fi and so I can't find

00:26:46   it now it's like it doesn't need to be on Wi-Fi if it's lost somewhere and you know

00:26:50   in a couch cushion and it wasn't on Wi-Fi as long as it had a battery and was pinging at some point

00:26:57   and there was an Apple device around which is pretty much everywhere it will be on a

00:27:02   map and you can find it that's gonna save people so much hassle.

00:27:07   Like it's unbelievable as a feature to add.

00:27:10   And it's not new idea and we talked about this a few months ago when this rumor happened

00:27:13   it's not a new idea but the difference is that if you're a third-party app hope and

00:27:18   you're hoping to sell a few thousand of this the chances that anybody's gonna see your

00:27:23   whatever is very low but if you can literally have every single Apple device or whatever

00:27:30   eighty five percent that are running the current OS see your thing and report back if they

00:27:35   spotted that's what makes a difference.

00:27:38   Most definitely.

00:27:39   Alright let's take our first break and we'll thank our friends over at Luna Display for

00:27:43   their support of this show.

00:27:44   They are the mic makers of the only hardware solution that will turn your iPad into a wireless

00:27:48   display for your Mac meaning you will have a second display that is super portable with

00:27:52   basically zero lag and stunning image quality.

00:27:55   I've been a huge fan of Luna Display I've been using mine for months and months now

00:27:59   I have it plugged into my Mac Mini and then I can access my Mac from wherever I am at

00:28:03   home I absolutely love it I get to use my Apple pencil I get to use my smart keyboard

00:28:08   on my bridge keyboard to interact with the Mac Mini really is just a wonderful solution

00:28:12   to be able to access my Mac whenever I want to.

00:28:15   So setting up extra screens is a fiddly affair but Luna Display makes it so easy to do you

00:28:19   just plug the dongle into your Mac and you're ready to go everything works over Wi-Fi or

00:28:23   it can also work over USB as well if you're in a situation without a connection.

00:28:27   Luna Display is a complete extension for your Mac and the all new liquid video engine brings

00:28:32   wonderful significantly reduced latency and a faster screen refresh rate.

00:28:36   Listeners of this show can get an exclusive 10% off at a wonderful discount at Luna Display.

00:28:43   Just go to L-U-N-A-D-I-S-P-L-A-Y.com and enter the promo code upgrade at checkout that is

00:28:49   Luna Display dot com promo code upgrade at checkout for 10% off your own Luna Display.

00:28:55   Go there right now and upgrade your setup you're going to love it Luna Display dot com

00:28:59   promo code upgrade for 10% off our thanks to Luna Display for their support of this

00:29:02   show and all of Relay FM.

00:29:05   The surprise of all surprises I was blown away I think I screamed at this moment as

00:29:12   I was told that in the keynote area many other people did too.

00:29:16   iPad OS.

00:29:18   Yeah so it broke 10 minutes before the keynote.

00:29:23   Really I didn't see it.

00:29:24   Here's the thing so we talk about where the leaks come from right they come from images

00:29:29   that are updated too quickly or you know at a guessable URL and we always say come on

00:29:35   Apple the fact is Apple is so big Federico and I kind of were talking about this Apple

00:29:40   so big that a leak you plug one leak another leak springs out so minutes before the keynote

00:29:47   Apple updated its terms and conditions so it's the lawyers one of the things that the

00:29:52   terms and conditions said is tv OS watch OS iOS iPad OS and Mac OS and somebody has a

00:30:01   script that just runs a diff on the terms and conditions every time they change and

00:30:06   they're like oh iPad OS and so it's too bad because that would have been an amazing surprise.

00:30:11   It was for me because I didn't see that leak.

00:30:14   But we saw that just before it got started and Federico and I were both like yeah makes

00:30:18   sense and actually before we get into the details of it I think when Apple's got a shared

00:30:25   app platform right where you're going to be able to write these apps on and they're going

00:30:29   to deploy on iPhone and iPad and Mac now and iPad in many ways is getting closer to the

00:30:36   Mac there comes a point when iPad and iPhone can't really hang together exactly anymore

00:30:43   and there's no point you know you differentiate Mac why don't you differentiate iPad when

00:30:48   they're different and I think where the rubber meets the road here is when you start introducing

00:30:53   these multi-fingered gestures that make sense on a big screen but don't make sense on a

00:30:59   little iPhone screen I mean you could argue that drag-and-drop started to strain this

00:31:05   where Apple felt like drag-and-drop wasn't good enough for the iPhone I disagree I think

00:31:08   that you should be able to drag and drop between apps on the iPhone but the more I wonder internally

00:31:13   at Apple if there came a point where somebody was like we need to do these you know you

00:31:18   can do a three finger pinch and and do a copy and a paste they're like oh but you know that

00:31:24   changes the copy and paste behavior and on an iPhone do you really want to do that and

00:31:28   you start to say how many features do we have that we have to say this is on the iPad this

00:31:33   is on the iPhone before you have to break them apart and say you know what big screens

00:31:37   are different from little screens and I when I saw the copy and paste gesture I thought

00:31:42   that is the kind of thing maybe that wasn't the straw that broke the camel's back but

00:31:46   that's the kind of thing that means you should separate these two yeah so these new gestures

00:31:55   well it comes with a bunch of stuff around text selection so no more magnifying glass

00:32:00   when you're trying to select text you can drag the cursor around by tapping on it and

00:32:03   dragging it yeah I want to see what that's like because I've gotten so used to tapping

00:32:07   somewhere where I want to place the cursor and if that's gone and I have to like hunt

00:32:12   for the cursor well what they want is like a quick tap but what they don't want you to

00:32:15   do is like tap and hold it too long because then that's going to start a selection so

00:32:20   and that feels like one of those things that they may tweak over the summer right where

00:32:23   they turn it out to people and it turns out oh this this interaction doesn't work quite

00:32:27   right and they'll they'll tweak it a little bit it wasn't good to see the present a struggle

00:32:31   in yeah like because again if I have to find the blinking text cursor and then go grab

00:32:35   it and move it somewhere else I'm not sure that's a better experience I'm just intrigued

00:32:40   right like happening the the text selection stuff I think the jury's out on but the copy

00:32:46   cut copy and paste gestures I think fantastic yeah and and having I've used those text selection

00:32:50   gestures in that like the Kindle app all the time and they actually are incredibly intuitive

00:32:55   and I know why copy and paste was done the way it was where you've got the contextual

00:33:01   menus and all of that but I I hope that this is a better system and will you gotta try

00:33:07   it out because this is going to be one of those things where I'm sure they went through

00:33:10   50 different iterations of it and once you get the feel for it you might say oh yes this

00:33:14   makes perfect sense I'm excited that they're trying something different rather than just

00:33:17   sort of sticking what we got with iOS 3 or whatever slide over on steroids yes slide

00:33:24   over is banned from baseball Hall of Fame now it's incredible yeah the that was an interesting

00:33:29   idea that that how do you deal with slide overcoming and going which has been a problem

00:33:34   with slide over for a while now and the answer is slide overs like an iPhone it's yeah slow

00:33:40   so so with slide over you can bring up a multitasking view in the slide over or you can just swipe

00:33:47   like using that right it's just like using an iPhone it's like you've got a little iPhone

00:33:50   floating over your iPad it even had its own home indicator yeah yeah it's literally a

00:33:58   an iPhone what a genius way to deal with that right isn't that smart right like we have

00:34:04   this system in the iPhone that people are used to now so we'll just build it in as a

00:34:09   window on the iPad now as well and like right this is just like now now that apps can exist

00:34:15   in multiple places it's like that is just a great way to deal with it you know you can

00:34:19   have notes and slide over and you can have a bunch of notes windows open and you can

00:34:22   just use them all and just swipe between them and I'm so excited about the split view stuff

00:34:28   the multiple spaces you know being able to split an app in half and use it side by side

00:34:32   on each other or take one of those views and put it with something else and then app expose

00:34:36   that actually went further than I thought they would go I didn't think they would commit

00:34:41   to the idea that that an app can run essentially as many windows as you want not just in split

00:34:49   view but in different sets of split views or different windows where you could essentially

00:34:55   have multiple iterations of the app open at once and then because and my thought was well

00:35:00   that gets really confusing and what do you do when you want to switch between them and

00:35:05   the answer is they also build app expose so that you can get between them again devils

00:35:10   in the details I was kind of expecting they were going to say you can tap and hold on

00:35:12   the notes icon in the dock and it'll show you options but instead it's sort of like

00:35:17   what you do is you end up in multitasking view for notes and you can pick them which

00:35:22   we'll see how that works but you need to be able to you can't be chasing windows of an

00:35:28   app across different spaces right that gets really weird really fast so I'm impressed

00:35:33   that they went there because I thought that they were going to keep it simpler than that

00:35:36   where it's like well you can have to open at once but you can't have to open at once

00:35:40   and it opens somewhere else and they said sure you can you absolutely can so it looks

00:35:46   like the overall design of widgets the notification center lock screen widgets whatever you call

00:35:51   them these days I can never remember the actual name for them now there there are widgets

00:35:55   yeah but they have today view but they're with you but the the overall design of them

00:36:01   has been simplified like in general a local cleaner and that's really nice because now

00:36:04   they'll be able to be pinned to your home screen yeah so the way they did this is very

00:36:09   smart they tighten up the home screen a little bit but when we all tried to imagine we tried

00:36:13   to imagine like what would it be like and there was a lot of like well you know are

00:36:18   you gonna do free placement of icons is it gonna be like Android you know Android widgets

00:36:23   are not great I whenever I use Android I'm like oh I get to use widgets and I put the

00:36:27   widgets on like they're too big in there and so you use the space of the iPad screen and

00:36:33   you basically say if you want to if you want to keep those widgets are great they're actually

00:36:37   incredibly powerful and they're out of sight and you forget that they're there so you can

00:36:41   just swipe and have them live next to your icons and all the icons just get a little

00:36:47   closer together they're kind of like buddying up they're staying warm huddling together

00:36:50   for warmth and then you have widgets and the time you know that like hanging on the screen

00:36:55   there that's great because that makes those widgets just having them in your face I think

00:37:01   is a is a powerful thing. New Apple pencil tools so there's a palette that's in you know

00:37:07   it's in some apps like notes and stuff that can be freely moved around which is really

00:37:10   nice right like there's like a kind of a window that can be moved around but and there's a

00:37:14   new mock-up feature which is really great so using the Apple pencil you swipe up and

00:37:18   you can take a effectively a screenshot you can mark it up but you can also look at let's

00:37:22   say you're on a web page it will capture the entire web page right so you don't have to

00:37:26   scroll. Yeah that's so good I mean that's like a utility on the Mac to do something

00:37:30   like that they're like no just let's have the idea of a whole document or a partial document

00:37:34   and you can mark up either. Yep and then you can and developers can implement this now

00:37:42   there's like an Apple pencil kit effectively I don't remember the exact name of it. That's

00:37:45   a big deal too because that solves the problem of everybody having to try and reinvent the

00:37:50   wheel in terms of pencil input. It will allow more applications to put Apple pencil support

00:37:53   in where they otherwise wouldn't have. Right because they're not going to build it themselves.

00:37:56   Exactly if you're an application that is a note-taking app well that's part of your job

00:38:01   maybe to do it on your own up until now maybe you'd still want to because you can have different

00:38:05   features yeah I think it's called pencil kit G Gannley in the chat is mentioning but now

00:38:12   you can imagine many other types of applications be like it would be nice to have this mode

00:38:16   in well let's just use Apple's tools and it's done which is wonderful. Sidecar so we just

00:38:21   read an ad for Luna display this is Apple's version of Luna display. Yeah I don't it's

00:38:27   all about the details I wonder how this works I wonder what its limitations are I wonder

00:38:31   if it's just Luna display. It looked like it I mean honestly the way they described

00:38:35   it. So what I always say about this is that when something gets Sherlock'd generally Apple

00:38:42   leaves it doesn't always happen didn't happen with Sherlock generally and Watson I guess

00:38:48   was the name of the app that got Sherlock'd ironically the generally what happens is Apple

00:38:53   hits something in the middle and there's stuff at the edges that is not worth Apple doing

00:38:59   and so for a company like Luna display those guys are going to have to find the edges like

00:39:08   what is Apple's thing not do and that's what they're going to need to support also they'll

00:39:14   have support of everything that predates Mac OS Catalina right but I bet they'll find some

00:39:23   things at the edges that these will see right like Apple's thing could be great it could

00:39:27   have some limitations I mean it certainly seemed like the way that they pitched it like

00:39:30   it's got everything. Honestly the thing that I guess is going to be in that's going to

00:39:35   still work great for Luna display and not work for Sidecar is initiating a mirrored

00:39:42   view from the iPad which is how all of us are using who are using our iPad to control

00:39:47   a Mac Mini that's hiding somewhere I'm not sure that's going to work. You're right we'll

00:39:52   see right because the way Apple pitches it is you're on your Mac because they put this

00:39:55   in the Mac section they didn't put in the iOS section right or the iPad OS section put

00:40:00   in the Mac section like it is considered like on Apple's website as a feature of iPad OS

00:40:03   but yes but you start on the Mac and then you push it to the iPad and so will you be

00:40:08   able to pull a Mac from your iPad or not maybe not and that would actually be ironically

00:40:14   the feature that Luna display did not intend to be big that everybody kind of started getting

00:40:20   excited about which is kicking off a Mac session in an app on your iPad might be a thing that

00:40:26   Apple doesn't serve. It becomes a selling point for them. Yeah maybe. Tiny floating

00:40:30   keyboard I can't believe it's taken them this long to do it. I thought of you for that.

00:40:35   This is perfect. I got a little keyboard I got a lot of screen real estate sometimes

00:40:39   you just want to pack with a little keyboard. Sometimes I'm holding my iPad and I need to

00:40:43   type with one hand yeah and you're holding it one hand and you're typing and it's wild

00:40:47   especially on 12/9 but now you could you shrink it down and you can just you could hold it

00:40:51   and you could do the swipe typing with your thumb in the corner I think it's just a nice

00:40:54   thing that you can have and that's wonderful. Custom fonts in the App Store. Yeah that's

00:41:01   an interesting choice. That was the second shoe to drop like that I wasn't expecting

00:41:05   so if I have custom font licenses that I've bought on the Mac I can't bring them in they

00:41:10   have to be on the App Store is what it seems like right that's where you get your fonts

00:41:14   you buy them on the App Store. I'm really intrigued to see what the pricing is like

00:41:18   for fonts what the availability is like for fonts that is kind of fascinating to me is

00:41:24   the way to deal with this problem. Yeah I'm I'm curious about the details because it what

00:41:31   it doesn't cover is if you get fonts from some other means and so that's kind of my

00:41:36   question is is there also an API for apps to add fonts to the system or not and we'll

00:41:41   find out it's like when you buy Microsoft Office you get fonts when you buy Adobe like

00:41:47   I have the Adobe bundle you get access to all these fonts that you can install on the

00:41:50   Mac but you can't install on iOS so my guess is that yes my guess is that for the general

00:41:58   public you'll just be able to buy fonts on the App Store but that there'll be some

00:42:01   other way to add apps from other sources too that won't be as nice but like because Adobe

00:42:10   should really be able if you you know buy a software package that comes bundled with

00:42:14   twenty fonts they should be able to say hey system here are the fonts and just have them

00:42:19   appear we'll see. Files. Myke, Federico and I whooped Marco took a picture of me after

00:42:32   they announced external storage support I guess because he figured I would be beaming

00:42:36   which I kind of was I clapped at that I I think I was the first person you probably

00:42:41   can't hear me because I was I was way back but I think I was the first person to exclaim

00:42:46   and I made a sound and I started to clap when they mentioned external storage support I

00:42:51   got I got out of the gate faster there honestly never thought I'd see the day. So external

00:42:56   storage support so you can plug in a thumb drive you can plug in some kind of SD card

00:43:00   reader. This is all the stuff that got beat up about when the iMac Pro came out and it's

00:43:04   again one of those things where it's Apple's vision of the future versus reality which

00:43:08   is you know what people and businesses who are supposed to be using these iPad Pros they

00:43:11   got friends with thumb drives colleagues with thumb drives who bring a presentation that

00:43:15   you can open on your iPad but you literally can't plug it into the iPad. Well you can

00:43:19   but it doesn't do anything and that's out the window and then on top of that people

00:43:23   in offices have servers that are shared in the office and they put the SMB support in

00:43:28   there for the same reason. So this means that the iPad Pro now is as trustworthy more or

00:43:34   less as any laptop in a business scenario where you need to connect to the server and

00:43:40   you need to share you connect to the server you could have used a third-party app before

00:43:44   there are some good third-party apps that do that that will now be kind of Sherlock

00:43:48   but you know this needed to be in the files app and then the USB thing you have you basically

00:43:53   have to have the system support that and so this is enormous. And it's more than just

00:43:56   files too so an app like Lightroom you can import directly in. Right another huge thing

00:44:01   because it used to be that all that stuff had to go into the photos database and then

00:44:05   move to Lightroom. Yeah well like the idea of it going into iCloud and it's the same

00:44:09   problem you're then going to upload all those things to iCloud when you don't want to because

00:44:12   all you really want to do is put them into Lightroom. And I don't know the details matter

00:44:17   but I like if I'm ferrite and I'm an audio app can I look at external storage and say

00:44:23   I can import these files and actually just import right off I would expect that it should

00:44:28   be able to do what Lightroom can do which is you know a third-party app instead of having

00:44:33   to bring it on to the files app even local storage which they had a local storage up

00:44:38   there presumably they're they're making it a little bit more powerful to save files on

00:44:43   your iPad that you don't want to sync. So on my iPad is now user saveable. Yeah. You

00:44:47   can create folders and save your own stuff in on my iPad. Because sometimes you don't

00:44:50   want to sync an enormous file in the cloud you just want to save it on your iPad. So

00:44:54   yeah I don't even know that they zip and archives are all in there. Yep you can zip and unzip.

00:45:02   It is like the people. Column view. Yeah column view which I've never I've never liked the

00:45:08   column view but it's like. The column view boy over there. Yeah Federico was excited

00:45:12   about it too and you know that was Steve Jobs' favorite view. He loved the column view all

00:45:16   the way from Next. So having that quick actions which is a Mac concept that they brought to

00:45:21   iPad OS where you can select an image or whatever and say let's rotate this image or whatever

00:45:27   do something very quickly about it. They're interesting way where they're sort of having

00:45:31   the interfaces parallel them each other which that's pretty cool. So that was essentially

00:45:37   somebody gave the people in charge of the files app on iPad OS finally the time and the authorization

00:45:43   to go down the wish list. Talk about wish list. The item on the Jason Snow wish list.

00:45:50   Desktop Safari. How bad are the Google Docs iOS apps that Apple made a point of saying

00:45:58   hey you can just load Google Docs in Safari now in desktop mode and it's not just so what

00:46:06   they didn't the answer is they're bad by the way the answer is those Google apps on an

00:46:09   iPad are really bad. The details here matter because a lot of the a lot of times when we

00:46:17   talked about doing a desktop class version of Safari on iPad what we got is people saying

00:46:23   oh well you can't do that because they assume that you have a mouse all of these things

00:46:29   and my answer was always well yeah but Apple's pretty clever they can you know they can know

00:46:36   that you're on an iPad and do things to make it still work and that's what they said. That's

00:46:42   what they said. They are doing things to make stuff that might have not worked right without

00:46:49   a mouse work and that might be you know I'm sure that WebKit there are going to be details

00:46:54   about this but it's probably doing things with like JavaScript like drop-down menus

00:46:58   and things like that where you know a tap is a rollover and you know and then the next

00:47:04   tap is a click or something like that where they where they are trying to do the right

00:47:08   thing but I love this because that was one of my great frustrations on the iPad is that

00:47:13   sometimes you just couldn't use a web page because it was trying to treat it like a baby

00:47:18   browser and also per site settings which I think means that you will be able to per site

00:47:23   say load this as a desktop site. Yeah and they also had like text size and stuff like

00:47:28   that so that you can set those per site. Right. So and there's like a bunch of other little

00:47:33   settings as well. And a download manager so if you want to download a zip file from band

00:47:38   camp of an album you just bought you can save it in files and then you can unzip those files

00:47:42   and then. Mail attachments go there now too. Wow. So mail and Safari both pushed to a downloads

00:47:48   folder which lives in files. Amazing. This iPad OS so this is a brand new operating system

00:47:57   by and large surely this means a frequency an increased frequency in iPad enhancements

00:48:06   because they now have another operating system to talk about right like whenever they come

00:48:10   up with WWDC in theory now they have five operating systems to give an update on every

00:48:15   year and iPad is one of them. The fact that they have done this must mean that they are

00:48:22   going to continue to push the iPad. The jumps that they have taken this year some of the

00:48:26   steps that they have made are huge and I can only imagine this being a good thing right

00:48:33   for people like me and you. Yeah I honestly one of the things that I hadn't really thought

00:48:40   about before about it being iPad OS is there's nowhere to hide and that's exciting because

00:48:51   what that means is next year what Apple can't do is say another year more great iOS features

00:48:58   here all these features and they're all iPhone features by having iPad OS be its own thing.

00:49:03   iOS is iPhone OS and then iPad. I mean but this is still gets them all it's really interesting.

00:49:09   Well yeah because they move in sync but they're not the same exact iteration but I guess what

00:49:14   I'm saying is next year if they don't if they do this thing where every two years the iPad

00:49:20   gets updates next year if they say iPad OS doesn't really have anything except what's

00:49:26   an iPhone OS it's going to be way more obvious than it has been before because I think saying

00:49:34   that iPhone OS is its own thing implies it's going to be handled as its own thing and get

00:49:42   their iPad OS on its own not its own time frame because these all come out the same time every year

00:49:50   but with its own set of priorities that you can't it seems to me that it makes it harder

00:49:56   for them to get away with doing an empty update to the iPhone or to the iPad OS. Yeah so it

00:50:03   sounds like as Federico reported there is a mouse support in assisted touch in accessibility.

00:50:12   Wow Steve Trout Smith has found it. It works with a magic trackpad plugged in. Yeah what's

00:50:18   weird is that it seems to not work with Bluetooth which I don't really understand. I am going

00:50:22   to use the absolute loving freak out of this feature Jason when I put it in my stand and

00:50:28   I'm going to be trackpad in it oh my god this is amazing. I'm so excited about this. Yeah

00:50:34   it means that if bridge wants to do a trackpad version of the bridge keyboard they're going

00:50:38   to have to have a little like a USB cable. That's not the worst thing in the world. Yeah

00:50:42   it's not it's not great but it's better than nothing I don't know why they wouldn't support

00:50:47   Bluetooth devices but there it is. This is version one right and but like I desperately wanted this

00:50:52   feature I don't care how I have to have it yeah I really want it because for accessibility for

00:50:58   myself right like it's genuine it's for my posture yeah I really desperately need to be able to use

00:51:05   my iPad in a stand because when I'm sitting at my desk it's not good for me to be looking down so

00:51:10   much and now being able to use a trackpad along with my keyboard that's going to be a huge deal.

00:51:14   Looks like Bluetooth mice work with it but not the magic trackpad over Bluetooth right now that's

00:51:19   weird then again it's a beta - maybe it'll all be there later on or maybe they'll take things out

00:51:23   but but pointing device and we'll see what the details are and if it really feels good or if it

00:51:27   feels weird but if I can use that to do text selection that'll be great. All right so is that

00:51:35   it for iPad OS? You know I'm sure it's not but I feel like that's probably most of the highlights

00:51:42   like there was so much going on on iPad OS I just you know. I'm so excited about this I cannot wait

00:51:51   to try one. Me too I brought an iPad to WWDC boy I hate saying that. Dub dub DC. What's dubbed up

00:51:59   now is the Apple's ordained it. Well it's www.DC.apple. It's dubbed up now I hate it but they wrote it on the wall. Yeah it's true anyway I brought an iPad to San Jose a sacrificial

00:52:12   iPad Pro 10.5 and it's gonna get it and we'll see what happens there but I'm looking forward to it.

00:52:19   Today's episode is also brought to you by Express VPN. Now sometimes I'm not some how cybercrime

00:52:27   right this is something it seems like it happens in the movies it's hard to imagine someone wanting

00:52:31   to try and get hold of your information but stealing data using public Wi-Fi is an easy

00:52:35   way for bad guys to make money and it happens to normal people. Yeah it's not what like there's a

00:52:40   whole Batman movie about cybercrime I feel like Batman no Batman's a cyber criminal isn't it and

00:52:45   in the dark night he yeah they like use all of everybody's phones to give him echolocation

00:52:50   like you don't want Batman looking at your phone. You don't want that and that's why you need to Express

00:52:54   VPN because if you leave your internet connection unencrypted your passwords and credit card numbers

00:52:58   could be vulnerable to bad people or Batman but there is something that you can do to protect

00:53:02   yourself you can start using Express VPN right now don't wait go and sign up for it right now

00:53:07   Express VPN works by securing and analyzing your internet browsing encrypting your data and hiding

00:53:12   your public IP address with easy to use apps that run seamlessly in the background of your device

00:53:17   you can turn on Express VPN protection with just one click and you're free to safely surf on public

00:53:23   Wi-Fi without being snooped on or having your personal data stolen Express VPN is rated the

00:53:28   number one VPN service by Tech Radar and comes with a 30-day money-back guarantee I am sitting

00:53:32   in a hotel room right now which means I turn on Express VPN as soon as I get here and connect to

00:53:37   the Wi-Fi and then I feel safe and secure about what I'm gonna be doing on my devices so for

00:53:42   less than seven dollars a month you can get the same Express VPN protection that I have if you

00:53:46   ever use public Wi-Fi and you want to keep the bad guys away from your data you need to be using

00:53:51   Express VPN so go to Express VPN comm slash upgrade right now and you can sign up today so go to once

00:54:00   and you can get three months for free actually if you go to Express VPN comm slash upgrade and you

00:54:05   can find out more there exp re s s VPN comm slash upgrade for three months free one year package

00:54:11   our thanks to Express VPN for their support of this show and relay FM whoo all right Jason Snell

00:54:19   Mac Pro Mac Pro display XDR now can we just give a shout out to friend of the show Colleen Novielli

00:54:29   yes made her her public speaking debut on she was amazing and she made her stage debut today she was

00:54:36   absolutely wonderful she was showing off the pro display XDR one of my favorite honestly one of my

00:54:40   favorite presentations of the whole day because she seemed so excited about it I especially liked

00:54:46   when she started wooing it was brilliant like it was a great it was a great thing but wow okay Mac

00:54:53   Pro this wasn't what I expected on the six colors secret podcast on Friday I made a prediction of I

00:55:00   decided I I hadn't put it anywhere and I thought I had a moment where I thought oh you know I think

00:55:06   I was listening to ATP it's like I know what the next Mac Pro is gonna be I said they're gonna go

00:55:10   back it's gonna be a modern version of the cheese grater Mac because that one worked it you need the

00:55:15   space for slots you need the ventilation it is you know clad in metal and they'll do some new

00:55:25   aluminum stuff with it and whatever but that it's basically a tower so they're just gonna do a tower

00:55:31   with an Apple spin on it and that's exactly what they did in fact it looks more like a box grater

00:55:36   than the old one did holds our little Lodge for my my liking so it's gonna take yeah we'll see it's

00:55:44   gonna take some getting used to it actually reminded me the new TARDIS interior on Doctor

00:55:49   Who has these has these circles with these kind of shapes inside them that are this kind of scalloped

00:55:54   look and it looks a little bit like that so I guess BBC set designers get a time to time for a

00:56:00   Mac Pro for you Jason now we're the first I think first podcast in our in relay and in the wider

00:56:08   expanded universe to talk about the Mac Pro yes so I think we need to address the most important

00:56:13   thing okay Jason is this an ugly computer I think it might be I I think it is I'm gonna leave it to

00:56:25   others to decide but I would say it is kind of a piece of industrial furniture because it's meant

00:56:32   to be used in serious workplace environments I think it looks good but I think it's kind of

00:56:43   brutal yet it brutal is a great word to describe it it is it is harsh on the eyes this one I think

00:56:51   I think it looks better in person and I think you might get used to it but it is it is aggressive

00:56:56   and brutal but let me say why like I don't think it is a particularly good-looking computer but I

00:57:03   actually think that that is a good thing I think Apple very clearly put function of a form with

00:57:09   this device yes for sure and that's why they went back to the cheese grater we wanted because the

00:57:14   they put form over function right and I will tell you I would tell you in my in my discussions with

00:57:21   people at Apple today they don't talk about the trash can that pro they talk about the cheese

00:57:27   grater but they won't talk about the trash can but when they talk about this new one the box

00:57:33   grater whatever we want to call it the new Mac Pro what they talk about all the time is overhead

00:57:38   how much overhead they built into this and if you recall the reason that the trash can Mac Pro died

00:57:45   is because it turned out it was not built with any overhead and they couldn't put faster hotter

00:57:52   things in it because they couldn't cool them and this one by going back to this other design they've

00:57:59   got two different it's three fans in a blower two different isolated thermal I'm worried if you get

00:58:05   too close to this thing it will pull you through to the other side no so so it no they say that at

00:58:11   sort of standard use it's quieter than the iMac Pro this is three very large fans in the front so

00:58:19   they're you know they don't have to rotate quite as fast and one of the things they've done is

00:58:23   they've built this this ventilation path and if you look at the the cards these modules these

00:58:31   MPX modules this is the graphics card system that well so so all of these modules so so whether you

00:58:38   look at if you look at the the processor if you look at the graphics card module if you look at

00:58:44   that video encoding module off the bone and then there are others like promise is announcing like

00:58:50   a raid that you can stick in it with like four spinning discs and there's also a two disc thing

00:58:55   that you can stick in that but the design that they've got in common in addition to like the

00:58:59   black you know metal and all that is what Apple wants people to do is build these cards with huge

00:59:05   heat sinks and and then use the ventilation of the chamber of the Mac Pro to do the blowing because

00:59:14   what they don't want is eight fans inside of it blowing on their individual cards so the what the

00:59:20   stuff that Apple has designed those cards don't have fans they have huge heat sinks and then the

00:59:25   Mac Pro has the fans and the Mac Pro does the the blowing through the case and out the back so you

00:59:33   know what they kept telling me is it's about headroom it's about the fact that this thing is

00:59:37   not just built to handle what's currently in there but that it's built to handle way more power than

00:59:44   the stuff that's in there actually needs which the implication is very strong that when new stuff

00:59:51   comes out that has higher you know requirements they will be able to just slide those in and those

00:59:58   will work too so you know they learned clearly they learned the hard lesson of the trashcan Mac

01:00:04   Pro and have gone the other way because it has to be functional they've heard from a lot of angry

01:00:10   pros I think I actually had somebody from Apple make mention of a site that they visited and said

01:00:16   that they were all still on the cheese grater Mac Pros and that's an interesting admission because

01:00:21   that's an admission that the last Mac Pro generation that customer didn't bother buying them

01:00:27   and that's telling so it's why that they have a raid version too right if I could not raid version

01:00:32   a rack version oh yeah yeah and I didn't get any details on that but like it's it's rackable they

01:00:38   there's a variation that you can put on its side and you can slide it in and it can put wheels on

01:00:44   it and well that's what I mean about industrial furniture right like there's something to that

01:00:48   the and the way it's built it's like a it's this it's a stainless steel frame so it's almost like

01:00:56   a piece of Ikea furniture or like a or like its own storage rack or its own equipment rack where

01:01:04   the stainless frame and everything's kind of hanging off of that and then there's this aluminum

01:01:11   shell the way it works is that when it looks like a normal computer there's this little circular

01:01:15   thing on the top and and it's like a handle and you flip it up and turn it and then lift it off

01:01:20   and the whole thing lifts off so instead of a door the whole chassis lifts off and you're left with

01:01:25   this stainless steel frame inside that everything's hanging off of also means that when you pick it up

01:01:29   to move it around you're not picking up like things that are screwed to the top you're actually

01:01:33   picking up the entire frame it's uh yeah it's they look they screwed up the last one yeah and

01:01:41   they know it and when they did that thing two years ago where they said we know we blew it and

01:01:46   we are gonna do a new Mac Pro this is this is them and they formed that whole pro group right

01:01:54   where they're like talking to their customers this is them saying yeah we know we blew it we've

01:02:00   listened and we want to give you everything that you asked for and some stuff that you didn't

01:02:05   expect because we you know we want to build this so we can do an update to it in a year or two years

01:02:10   or three years and have it still work so we don't have to build I mean like they don't want to build

01:02:15   a new Mac Pro chassis for another ten years right they don't want to do that so they built this

01:02:20   thing to handle it I mean a lot of the technical specifications of this machine are but so

01:02:26   discussed on ATP which I'm really we're going to see that tonight and I'm excited to see what Mac Pro Live

01:02:30   it's a podcast about the Mac Pro but there's a bunch of stuff like the amount of ports that this

01:02:37   thing has and can have more of because of expansion you can have up to 12 Thunderbolt ports if you

01:02:42   just keep putting on different IO cards and you can drive six of those new displays and it's

01:02:48   bananas yeah let's talk about that display so Apple's created extreme dynamic range XDR yeah I

01:02:57   saw that in person that was pretty it's pretty wild they have done thing is also complicated to look

01:03:04   at so they did they did a before we get to the the is it is it pretty I think from the front front

01:03:10   it's pretty and if you don't like that lattice then you won't like it from the back because it

01:03:14   has a fan which I know is gonna freak John Syracuse out but they said it that the fan is less than

01:03:20   seven decibels so it's like below room noise so it's basically inaudible okay but it is there but

01:03:27   there is a fan because they're doing so much with it and what and they put us in a room with a couple

01:03:34   of existing displays that are considered sort of like pro level computer displays that are like

01:03:40   ones two thousand and ones like six thousand dollars and then also reference monitor monitors

01:03:46   for Sony professional reference monitors that are in the 20s of thousands of dollars and and

01:03:52   they and these new displays and Apple's message is essentially none of those displays can do

01:03:59   everything that the Apple displays can do but at their pinnacle because like the the Sony displays

01:04:04   although they look as good as the Apple displays if you go off to the side they don't look good

01:04:09   they they they really have to be viewing them front on but the larger point that Apple's trying to

01:04:15   make unusual for them because they usually will say we have the best but they were sort of saying

01:04:19   as well we have the best but also from the front we look like that Sony display that costs twenty

01:04:28   six thousand dollars and ours doesn't cost twenty six thousand dollars so it's not twenty six forty

01:04:34   six thousand so this is this is Apple's this is sort of Apple's pitch here is that this is the

01:04:40   best computer monitor that you can buy better than anything that's out there from Dell or ISO and

01:04:47   it's essentially the same quality you would get in a forty eight thousand dollar Sony monitor

01:04:54   especially since it can maintain that that hundred nits of brightness whereas some of the other

01:05:00   displays they either after a while they auto dim because they can't keep up that the the heat

01:05:07   that's involved or in the case of the ISO monitor it can it can it can't display the range so when

01:05:16   you get when it gets really bright you can see all the blacks lift up and become gray and that

01:05:20   just doesn't happen on this display so on that level it's pretty amazing they've they've

01:05:24   engineered five hundred and seventy six independent LEDs that are doing backlighting they've got all

01:05:30   these different layers it's it's a it's a seven layer burrito of innovation they've got seven

01:05:36   layers that are doing these things with the blue backlights so that they're steering them you know

01:05:41   like it is funny because this is really Apple saying okay we can take this panel how do we make

01:05:46   this panel great and the answer is they take the panel and then they built this huge system behind

01:05:50   the panel which is great I mean if you look at the price it's not cheap but at the same time for what

01:05:55   it is it you know if you it's comparable to what you get in a 40 first off it's comparable to what

01:06:01   you get in a forty thousand dollar reference monitor but I think the other point is that

01:06:04   that ISO display that people are currently buying the cost six thousand dollars and this thing costs

01:06:11   six thousand dollars yeah but you can't really do anything with it with six thousand well it

01:06:16   costs five thousand and then if you want to stand it's another thousand and that's a one of these

01:06:20   amount and it's 400 yeah it's it's 199 for the visa amount I think isn't it 999 for the stand

01:06:26   but then you have to mount it somewhere yes and then there's the nano texture version which is

01:06:31   another thousand which I didn't get to see up close where they're trying to do a matte version

01:06:36   that is just etched glass yeah well this is do I get that on it it's like well yeah right well I

01:06:44   mean if it's an extra thousand dollars is maybe the chance this is like Marco putting a screen

01:06:48   protector on his iPad I did it to the antichloro right oh yes that's why I want it on my I said

01:06:52   they're no good right because they do that weird rainbow in thing that's right the shimmer or

01:06:56   whatever they called it so it's not cheap but this is their argument is that is that rather

01:07:02   than make they didn't engineer this product to be cheap they and they engineered to be good and then

01:07:08   they're pricing it where actually compared to not only is it cheaper than the $43,000 currently

01:07:16   available Sony monitor or the $48,000 formerly available Sony monitor but if you take that

01:07:22   ISO monitor that's six grand it's way better than that and that's their argument is basically like

01:07:28   you don't need a reference monitor in your video pro space instead by this one by five of these and

01:07:35   put them on people's desks and then instead of having a chain or you have to pass things off

01:07:39   until you get to the reference monitor everybody can just have a reference monitor on their desk

01:07:44   and again will a regular person need this monitor no and the good thing is like if it matters even

01:07:55   if you buy a Mac Pro you can just use another Thunderbolt display for sure right you can and

01:07:59   you can still buy those you can still go with that are the I love that the on the stand it goes into

01:08:05   portrait orientation as well that stand that's done anyone the stand is a bit awkward look in

01:08:13   it's kind of it's at the height that it needs to be because the iMac stand in my opinion and

01:08:19   I know you feel the same because you're a basic guy it's too low I have my iMac sitting up on

01:08:23   this little metal you can adjust it 120 millimeters in height so there's some there's some room to

01:08:30   adjust it up generally is higher up and you can and it is higher up and you can tilt it from 25

01:08:34   degrees to minus 5 so there's some there's 30 degrees of tilt 100 millimeters of height

01:08:38   adjustment it is also that stand is also kind of kind of brutal right it's like a right angle it's

01:08:46   not super curvy or anything but it fits in with the kind of design language they're going for for

01:08:51   this thing and it's meant for you know it's meant for serious business also has to be high enough so

01:08:56   that you can rotate it that's part of the trick of yeah having it be really able is is if it's too

01:09:01   low down you have to I used to have a rotatable monitor like that I think was an NEC monitor and

01:09:07   in order to rotate it you had to slide it up it went up and then you turn it because it couldn't

01:09:13   rotate at its base level which is dumb but that's yeah that is kind of weird right because you just

01:09:19   like turn it and hit the corner of it I do find myself wondering about John Syracuse we'll just

01:09:23   promote ATP live which is which is coming up you know they're recording that in a few hours yeah

01:09:28   you know I can't wait to find this one of those things where John Syracuse it doesn't need a

01:09:32   hundred nits or and doesn't need a million to one HDR ratio or anything like that it's like I just

01:09:38   don't know about I just can't fathom but six grand you can get an Apple monitor for six grand six

01:09:44   grand it does by the way it doesn't have a webcam on it but I think Logitech is announced they've

01:09:50   partnered with Logitech and Logitech's got a thing for it that is a web a 4k webcam that sits on top

01:09:57   and is designed to blend in six grand I would have liked face ID for six grand so I think what they

01:10:03   said was the where the where these things go I don't care there are issues with if you put a

01:10:10   camera in it you're making the bezels bigger and they want them all like next to each other and

01:10:13   they all they said that the six grand I want to count I want I not only do I want a webcam in it

01:10:18   I won't face that yeah and I'll say it's a thousand it's I don't know how many nits it is I haven't you

01:10:22   know my kids my kids had lice when they were a little but since then I don't know how many

01:10:26   nits are in I'll take 900 nits if I can have a if I can't face okay you can't have that though

01:10:31   because the pro customers don't want face ID I I'm with you and they should do that on an iMac but

01:10:36   for this display I am okay with it yeah the next iMac should have it definitely definitely I agree

01:10:43   yeah definitely but I will say that it's a very expensive piece of equipment I would really like

01:10:50   to see a little bit more from it like I really would 32 inches which is cool that's kind of what

01:10:57   kind of stuff that we thought 6k retina 40% larger than the iMac screen 20 million pixels

01:11:03   I I'm excited to see what this thing looks like yeah I'm also a little bit scared the screen is

01:11:10   gorgeous I will tell you I am potentially in the market for an upgrade to my computer I am also

01:11:16   expecting the iMac Pro will get bumped around the same time this comes out which is later in the

01:11:20   year I'm expecting they will they will because the iMac Pro has not been revved yet and it might get

01:11:26   some of the chips that the Mac Pro has it yeah and I think this answers the question to the Mac

01:11:30   Pro starts at 6,000 I was actually surprised they laid out all the pricing here iMac Pro starts at

01:11:36   6,000 and that to me it seems like they're trying to find a place for the iMac Pro versus the Mac Pro

01:11:46   so iMac Pro at 5 Mac Pro at 6 and you've got this obviously they both go up from there the advantage

01:11:54   of the iMac Pro is it's all-in-one it's great screen it's got that power most people don't need

01:11:59   a Mac Pro right like they didn't design this to be the Mac Mini they designed it to be if I ever

01:12:08   want to have 1,000 people on a podcast I can do that in logic yes you can that'll sound great

01:12:13   I'm sure there's cross talk on that wow wow wow all right we should talk about Mac OS Catalina

01:12:19   before we wrap up today but before we do let me thank our final sponsor of this week's episode

01:12:24   and that is Squarespace you can make your next move with Squarespace they will let you easily

01:12:28   create a website for your next idea or project and with the ability to grab a unique domain name take

01:12:33   advantage of award-winning templates and so much more they will be the home for your next website

01:12:38   whether you want to create a blog or a portfolio an online store a site for your restaurant so if

01:12:43   your business site for an event I made my wedding website on Squarespace no matter what type of site

01:12:47   you want to make Squarespace is the all-in-one platform that gives you all of the tools that

01:12:51   you need to do it there is nothing to install or patch or upgrade they have got you covered

01:12:56   they have award-winning 24/7 customer support so if you need any help Squarespace is right there

01:13:01   I love their templates the templates it's not just about design it's really customizable and you can

01:13:06   change the templates around and like really kind of just make it your own but it's also a great way

01:13:10   to get a kind of page structure for a website so we use one of their wedding templates last year

01:13:17   and it had like all of the little pieces of information you would typically need to give

01:13:21   wedding guests and we just needed to change them and amend them to fit our needs it was really

01:13:25   awesome Squarespace plans start at just $12 a month but you can sign up for a free trial right now

01:13:31   just by going to squarespace.com/upgrade then when you sign up use the offer code upgrade to get 10%

01:13:38   of your first purchase of a website or domain and show your support for this show once again that is

01:13:43   squarespace.com/upgrade and the code upgrade for 10% off your first purchase our thanks to Squarespace

01:13:48   for their continued support of this show and all of Relay FM Squarespace make your next move make

01:13:53   your next website we did not get this name MacOS Catalina we did not get that Catalina they have

01:13:59   left the desert behind that's fine because otherwise it would have been Death Valley and

01:14:03   also marzipan moment of silence for marzipan pour one out it is now catalyst catalyst so easy to

01:14:11   remember catalyst Catalina Catalina I like catalyst catalyst to change yes yes I mean they're sending

01:14:19   messages also who I don't like marzipan I don't like marzipan I like a name yes this is a better

01:14:25   name I'm glad that it's not just I mean the way they phrase is like well we call it internally

01:14:30   you know project catalyst but we've got a different name it gives us something to call it other than

01:14:37   marzipan or you know UI kit Mac or whatever let's come back to catalyst yes Catalina we'll start on

01:14:45   Catalina we'll start in Catalina I love the way they got rid of the iTunes thing where they were

01:14:51   making fun of iTunes this is back to Craig Federighi as the guy who can skewer Apple in a calendar and

01:14:56   then we need a doc we can put a doc in there that allows him to make the joke without saying you know

01:15:02   we stuff too much stuff in in iTunes he doesn't he never he never said that because he didn't need

01:15:07   to instead he made a joke about how yeah there's a lot of stuff in there and now there's not music

01:15:12   podcasts Apple TV that's it and well and finder finder gets the iPhone it's like a drive now I

01:15:20   guess yeah I wouldn't have expected that the only thing that the question I've got is about like

01:15:25   file transfer stuff and if that if that's in there too what about local music libraries is it in the

01:15:31   music app I felt like I wasn't completely sure about that yeah I'm unclear on the details I

01:15:37   assume so but I don't see if I can try and find that out while we're still talking today but yeah

01:15:42   I mean it makes perfect sense to have these applications right they are what they are oh

01:15:47   can we just talk a minute about that voice control feature that they showed off that was also for the

01:15:53   iPhone that video they did was was unbelievable this is the ability to be able to control Apple

01:15:58   devices just by using voice and you and you can have this system put up all these numbers on the

01:16:03   screen which is where you would want the tabs you know we don't we don't need to sit here and like

01:16:10   applaud Apple for everything that they do but I look at something like that and I see the amount

01:16:17   of work that it must have taken for the amount of people that will actually use that feature they

01:16:22   don't need to do this stuff they don't need to do that but they do it yep because there are companies

01:16:28   that make products right that can help you with this type of stuff so there are options that are

01:16:33   available for people who are unable to interact with devices to be able to use their voice to do

01:16:38   it instead like my understanding right like there are things that you can use but this this really

01:16:45   it was a very touching video and it blew me away because it was such a clever system and you know

01:16:53   these things it's just like the amount of time and effort and money that was put into creating that

01:16:58   system for the amount of people that will actually use it but the effect that it will have on those

01:17:02   people's lives exactly worth it and it's unbelievable also as we have said time again I saw Steven a

01:17:08   keynote who writes about these issues he was at the keynote not only is it important for tech

01:17:15   companies to think about accessibility but the truth is an accessible product is a better product

01:17:23   for everybody and when we talk about mouse support in an iPad OS or iOS because it turns out according

01:17:29   to Steve Trudn Smith it's on an iPhone too well why not that's an accessibility feature that

01:17:37   benefits us and you could say well yes but you actually need accessibility and that's it there's

01:17:42   a fuzzy line there right where it's like everybody has their own accessibility requirements and and

01:17:47   some of that has to do with accessibility but the a system that's more accessible is more flexible

01:17:54   and so for me I look at that and anybody who's got RSI stuff this is a good thing like you used

01:18:02   to be able so so David Pogue who used to write for Macworld and then went on to whatever the New York

01:18:09   Times whatever was he didn't know he does like something well he had anyone who and now I saw

01:18:14   his byline in the New York Times yeah and so I don't know maybe he's freelancing for them but

01:18:18   anyway David was I was his editor for a while at Macworld when he did the back page column and one

01:18:23   of our editors Shali McFarland also severe RSI and they both use dragon which they had to use a PC for

01:18:30   because the Mac version was never very good and then and then Mac speech dictate came out and then

01:18:34   it got bought by nuance and basically killed and it's one of those things where one of the reasons

01:18:39   you need to go with more than just sort of like this standard dictation is standard dictation has

01:18:45   its limits it doesn't run forever it'll turn itself off and you can't do things like edit

01:18:51   text which means that you can save your hands from writing but the moment you make a mistake

01:18:57   you either have to let it go or you have to stop and pick up your mouse and start to do those things

01:19:02   and what they demoed in that video was editing by voice which is enormous if you're somebody who

01:19:10   actually wants to write at length with your voice because you have to be able to say you know forget

01:19:16   that go back replace that correct this word and yeah it takes a while for your brains to do that

01:19:22   but Shali and and David both did that and I really want to play around with it that so that that could

01:19:29   be huge for people who just don't want to type as much like again like I don't really want to hop on

01:19:35   about it because I'm clearly not in a position where I require severe accessibility needs but I

01:19:43   do struggle with lots of different things and it's all kind of related to posture and RSI stuff and

01:19:48   there are times when I'm having really bad flare-ups where I would prefer to not have to

01:19:55   use my hands where I don't need to to make the money that I need for my living and you know so

01:20:00   if I was able to be able to use my iPad like without touching it that could be a big help to

01:20:07   me at times so I'm really interested to look at what this feature really is all about but more

01:20:13   than anything I'm just happy that they made it I want to provide a follow-up real-time follow-up

01:20:18   from Kate in the chat room from the music app you explore a library of 50 million songs blah blah

01:20:25   blah blah blah or listen to all the music you've collected over the years yeah and there is other

01:20:30   copy on the page talking about the iTunes store still being available so the music app is effectively

01:20:35   all of the music features of iTunes it would seem so what else do we have we already spoke

01:20:44   about sidecar which is the second display yeah for the Mac and then I guess really and we talked

01:20:50   about find my and screen time is coming to the Mac too which is what I really wanted that that's

01:20:55   fantastic yeah that was a draft pick and that's a good one I'm really excited about that because I

01:20:59   don't want to manage my kids devices all of them activation lock is worth mentioning as another

01:21:04   feature where if you've got a t2 Mac you can now do the same thing where it's locked to your Apple ID

01:21:07   and people can't get into it it's great but let's talk about catalyst project catalyst more you cannot

01:21:14   spend as much time on this in the presentation is what I meant catalyst I expected them to spend 30

01:21:20   minutes now maybe in the developer no why then because they had the Swift UI stuff now we're not

01:21:25   going to talk about this because again I think this is a little bit over our pay grade yeah but

01:21:28   the Swift UI stuff that seems like they're moving on to the next generation of things this is much

01:21:34   further down the line and they're trying to sell people on it now to get them this is this is the

01:21:39   carrot for the Swift stick right people can see how useful it would be because now if you use the

01:21:45   Swift UI stuff you can build to the watch independently of its own UI right there was a

01:21:51   lot of stuff going on in here which again I am very interested to hear how it's broken down on

01:21:56   shows that like under the radar and how it's broken on ATP right yeah I want to hear our friends who

01:22:01   are developers talk about that because I don't know although I will say and I'm not alone in

01:22:05   this I talked to a bunch of people who are like computer nerds but not developers when they were

01:22:09   showing the Swift UI stuff which came later and that was when that when it's sort of like they

01:22:15   went to two hours and then they're like all right now we're gonna do 30 minutes of nerdy

01:22:18   developers show some code but I looked at that and thought oh my god maybe I should write not an app

01:22:24   well because it seemed possible right right right because they had a visual building system and it

01:22:31   sweeps away because one of the problems with when you think about building an app is that oh my god

01:22:35   I'm going to need to learn I'm gonna have to go back through a decade of knowledge in order to

01:22:41   get where I need to go and this looks a little more appealing and I realize it was a demo and

01:22:47   a keynote but I think that's really interesting but thing is though yes it was a demo in a keynote

01:22:52   but I'm gonna try it and I wouldn't right yeah but I will open it up and play with it and it's

01:22:58   an extension of Swift playgrounds but it's it you know what they said is it's designed for app

01:23:03   building and this is the other piece of the puzzle there was all that talk of a couple years ago

01:23:08   there was like all the marzipan talk and there was also all this like amber I think stuff where

01:23:12   where like Gruber had this and then German had had marzipan it was like a fight of who was right

01:23:17   but it turned out they were both right it was just different yeah and that's what what's what because

01:23:21   these things seem to work in conflict to each other because they are two different systems to

01:23:27   build applications that can run on multiple platforms yeah but they're like that I think

01:23:32   that's why everything got so confusing and it's why it's so interesting to see it and it's like

01:23:36   you look at the the Swift UI stuff and you're like aha that that is the one app everywhere system

01:23:43   yeah but what we have right now is there's multiple ways and we're gonna allow you to start

01:23:46   pointing them until we can convince you all to use Swift right and then when we're there it's

01:23:51   gonna be one of them and it seems like they are the carrot is really what they're using here which

01:23:56   is it's easier and if you want and if you want watch apps right like if you want apps if native

01:24:02   you I do this is what you got to do you gonna learn it so again with I feel like I'm talking

01:24:06   out of school a little bit but catalyst could have been a half an hour I was so surprised

01:24:11   and how much honestly I think they said we don't even need to evangelize this because every

01:24:16   iOS developer is a Mac user and they they're gonna get it and and the way they handled it I thought

01:24:21   was very clever they said Mojave was version one now we're here time they said they said you've got

01:24:28   a hundred million Mac users waiting for you which is a great way to put it it's just like look you

01:24:32   this opens a new market for you what did they add from Mojave improved sidebar better text

01:24:37   interaction smoother scrolling a single process model which means that if an app crashes it

01:24:42   doesn't take down all the marzipan sorry catalyst apps so it means that it's because before it was

01:24:46   like it's all running as one you like that process and now they're gonna run as their own things

01:24:50   available now they said and then this is the thing and that they did the phrasing was a very

01:24:56   particular they said you check the Mac checkbox and it builds in the fundamental features but and

01:25:02   this is the key bit of language they used the finishing touches are up to you and that's the

01:25:08   way they're saying it is I love that is is you get we will take you all this way and it will work

01:25:14   and then what we want you to do is your due diligence as a developer which is add the finishing

01:25:20   touches add the key the menu bar add the touch bar support add the keyboard shortcuts add all

01:25:26   of this other stuff that makes it a truly good Mac app and then they brought out a couple of developers

01:25:32   the Jira people because what I really like to play so because of the work we have done on our iPad

01:25:36   app like keyboard shortcuts and split view we're ready to go and it's like yeah because what that

01:25:42   means is people that don't support this please power user features on the iPad will want to

01:25:47   support them on the Mac and then the iPad will get them to ya know I thought I thought it was good

01:25:52   for what it was I was surprised it wasn't longer but I think they're coming from a position of

01:25:56   confidence and feeling like they don't know need to make a bigger deal about it than they did and

01:26:01   that they will end in the finishing touches are what it's all about and I'm sure they are spending

01:26:07   a lot of time in sessions throughout this week talking about how you make great Mac apps using

01:26:14   the finishing touches but that's all they needed to talk about on stage I thought I thought that

01:26:20   was pretty good because they they acted very confident about how well this is going to work

01:26:24   and we'll see the details but I think that says a lot that they act there is coming back to the

01:26:32   Mac how hilarious I thought about that a few months ago which is like well I mean this is

01:26:36   obviously the solution it sounds like Apple like called them up and said okay you abandon the Mac

01:26:40   yeah come down and make your iOS app work on the Mac and they said great and we know iOS developers

01:26:46   who've said much the same thing which is of course I'm gonna look at this because I don't want to

01:26:50   make two apps I mean that's that's the bottom line Apple doesn't want to make two apps so what we

01:26:54   don't know although maybe Steve Tranton Smith already knows but what we don't know is like

01:26:58   a hint what apps are it seemed like they were saying reminders and notes I assume so they

01:27:04   brought them up yeah right when they said oh we have these we also have the it looked like maybe

01:27:10   because we were talking about this like reminders and notes could move over they didn't do what I

01:27:13   thought they were gonna do which was to surprise everyone yeah a big one it's like they almost got

01:27:17   there and then they didn't I think that this is it's I'm very excited I will say like I know this

01:27:23   maybe sounds a bit silly but I'm finding myself more and more excited about the Mac again right

01:27:29   because it's it's getting of new software like it's gonna be getting the stuff that I want yeah

01:27:35   again right there are so many iOS apps that I love and one of the reasons I use iOS so much is

01:27:41   because it's got the apps those great Mac doesn't have them but now it might get them and that is

01:27:46   very exciting to me and the app developers at Apple and the third-party app developers will be

01:27:52   so happy to put focus on building a great app instead of building two versions of a pretty good

01:27:56   app and like Twitter is a good example where Twitter is never obviously they never prioritize

01:28:03   their Mac app but they've gotten iPad app so now they've got a Mac app like that's all they had to

01:28:08   do they might make their iPad app better now because they're gonna put it on the Mac almost

01:28:11   certainly they will homes in it or whatever and so I think this is wonderful I am so excited for

01:28:17   the rest of this week now to start seeing people posting tweets I'm sure I think I saw it already

01:28:25   James Thompson's probably already got it running yeah I'm sure he does and that's James is a good

01:28:30   example where it's one it he's one person writing an app that he's written since college but he is

01:28:36   currently developing two versions of it and you know at some point and I don't know if it'll be

01:28:43   this fall but at some point by doing using catalyst James will no longer have to maintain

01:28:51   the shared code but like two different apps he will be able to 784 build one thing he will you

01:28:59   know eventually he will be able to do what he's finally dreamed of which is build a multi-user

01:29:04   racing game inside his calculator and there's no about screen as well because it's using some stuff

01:29:09   that's not supported but like the idea is so your apps will get this this is the thing that's like

01:29:15   well what does it matter for me as a regular user there's a few things one is a lot of great there's

01:29:20   been a lot of great iPad apps that have I want built that was the only miss calzone so my Mac

01:29:26   yeah so so a lot of great Mac apps are longer at iOS apps that have been built that don't run on

01:29:30   the Mac that will now be able to run on the Mac that's one so you'll get calzone sure you get

01:29:34   overcast right the second thing is your apps will theoretically again we need to see what the

01:29:41   limitations are but your apps have a good chance of getting better because these wasted cycles that

01:29:49   your developers have to spend building the iOS version and then the Mac version will now all be

01:29:55   put into one version that will get better faster and James is a good example of that with peak alc

01:30:00   where if James builds peak alc with new features everywhere at once instead of having to build it

01:30:07   twice peak alc gets better faster so even if it's not about like you're getting new apps it's about

01:30:16   your existing apps getting better faster that's the dream of this and now we'll see what the

01:30:21   limitations are because the fear is that somebody's gonna go if you remember when all the iWork apps

01:30:27   got updated to be in sync with a code base from iOS it wasn't it wasn't catalyst back then but it

01:30:34   was still kind of like that they were they wanted to get those things in lockstep yeah there were a

01:30:40   lot of feature regression so that's the one thing to watch here is like are there things that are

01:30:44   going it is somebody who's going to be the first person to step on that landmine of releasing a new

01:30:49   version in the fall that's based on catalyst and their app loses features on the Mac that would

01:30:57   probably be a mistake but it will probably happen someone's gonna do it yeah yeah that's a really

01:31:02   good point so we'll see because nobody's you know those existing Mac apps are going away so I think

01:31:08   James is a responsible developer is a great example James Thompson is not going to regress

01:31:13   pcalc just to put it into catalyst but he is going I would imagine not to speak for James he is going

01:31:22   to try to make it so it doesn't regress and if you listen to these developers and that's what you

01:31:30   know and so I would also say I bet you this is the most important part about this summer and this

01:31:35   beta cycle is Apple hearing from developers about what works and what doesn't with catalyst I think

01:31:41   this cycle has the potential to have the most impact on a Mac OS release in years because

01:31:47   turning these third-party developers loose is going to shake out all sorts of weird things that

01:31:53   hopefully Apple will address and fix in Catalina by the time it ships or maybe shortly thereafter

01:31:58   so that's that's the one caveat here is like I worry about apps that that rush to support this

01:32:04   and end up sort of taking features away from Mac users but I just hope they don't have to because

01:32:09   that's not what this is about this is about making everybody's apps better over time what a day

01:32:16   enormous and we have only scratched the surface fortunately there's another week's worth of

01:32:21   podcasts for everybody to listen to and we'll be back with more but next week I guess we will

01:32:28   probably talk about some stuff we haven't been able to cover yeah I want to talk about Apple

01:32:31   watch and we'll be able to talk about the things that we totally missed this time that is excited

01:32:35   ultimately going to find out about having used these betas which we will be yeah yeah things get

01:32:41   more you know more nitty-gritty then but it is again like when they announced like iOS 7 I was

01:32:48   kind of blown away because the visual changes were so enormous that it was just like just hard

01:32:54   to even comprehend but this it's the it's the litany of like the technical details of all these

01:32:59   things that they're doing and and you might ask yourself why this year were they able to do this

01:33:05   when other years they aren't able to do this and it's sort of like we're kicking it slow and we're

01:33:09   looking at stability and speed of older versions the answer is Apple's been working for this day

01:33:16   for years yeah right that's the truth of it is Apple has see this is the coming catalyst and

01:33:23   Swift UI have been in the works with large teams at Apple for years I suspect we know people who

01:33:32   have been working on them for years and they couldn't tell us and so this is not Apple finally

01:33:40   doing something this is Apple having done something in the background for a long time finally being

01:33:46   able to take the wrapper off of it and show it to us and that happened today but as a result it was

01:33:51   incredibly plus on the hardware side the Mac Pro is the same kind of thing that's a that's a few

01:33:56   years of work a couple years of work at least so and we know the process we know the timeline of

01:34:00   that one yeah yeah pretty pretty clearly so that means today was enormous and that's great it's a

01:34:09   lot to process but Federico and I did a little high-five like you know the advantage of waiting

01:34:17   an extra year and watching iPad features be deferred is when they arrive it is really sweet

01:34:22   and iOS 11 was really sweet and iOS 9 was really sweet and iPad OS 13 is really sweet and I can't

01:34:29   wait to install it on my sacrificial iPad Pro and see what happens so we will be back next week with

01:34:38   more of this you can find show notes for today's episode at relay.fm/upgrade/248 you should keep

01:34:44   your eye on sixcolors.com because I'm sure that Jason will have a lot of interesting things going

01:34:49   on over there Jason is @jsnell on Twitter as well J S N E double L I am @imike I M Y K E thanks to

01:34:56   Squarespace, ExpressVPN and Luna Display for their support of this show if you are still in San Jose

01:35:02   we hope that we'll see you around this week and don't forget that we're gonna be recording

01:35:07   Connected live in front of a wonderful audience at the Hammer Theatre later on this week very

01:35:13   excited about the episode there's a lot of the closer we get to it the more wild it seems like

01:35:17   it's gonna be so I'm very excited I hope that you'll be tuning in to that we'll probably we

01:35:22   will be trying to stream that live and that should be 6 p.m. Pacific and there's my understanding is

01:35:28   the one of Stephen Hackett will be trying to get the episode out yes as soon as he possibly can from

01:35:31   when we're recording when we finish recording so I hope that we see you around for that if not

01:35:35   tuning in live or checking out the episode will be great but Jason Sowell congratulations on your

01:35:41   draft win thank you Myke I think and thanks to the judges for going my way and thanks to cook for not

01:35:47   appearing on stage one more time and we'll be back of a more regular episode next week Snell talk and

01:35:51   ask upgrade will return but today we had to talk send us your questions I think next week may just

01:35:56   be a breakdown of all this stuff all follow-up #askupgrade if you've got questions for us about

01:36:01   stuff that you've seen stuff you haven't seen stuff you want our opinions on for next week's

01:36:05   episode will be wonderful #askupgrade for those until then we'll be back next time say goodbye

01:36:10   Jason Snell goodbye Myke Hurley

01:36:12   you

01:36:12   you

01:36:13   you

01:36:13   you

01:36:14   you

01:36:14   you

01:36:15   you

01:36:15   [MUSIC PLAYING]

01:36:18   [BLANK_AUDIO]