246: You Can't Fight the Magnets


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:08   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 246. Today's show is brought to you by Borrow,

00:00:15   Luna Display and Squarespace. My name is Myke Hurley and I have the pleasure as always of being

00:00:20   joined by my partner in crime, Mr Jason Snell. Hello, Mr Myke Hurley. Hello, Mr Jason Snell. We

00:00:26   have a #SnellTalk question that comes from Nathan this week and Nathan wants to know,

00:00:30   Jason, when you rotate your iPhone to landscape, which side does the notch go? Well, that's an

00:00:37   interesting way of putting it, but since we generally the notch starts on top,

00:00:44   right? We don't generally hold our phones upside down. Not generally, not generally. Although

00:00:49   Sonos makes you do that when you're tuning a speaker, which is hilarious. They flip the

00:00:53   whole UI upside down because they want you to hold the microphone in the air. That's clever.

00:00:57   And it just seems wrong. So what I'm going to say to Nathan is clockwise. So the notch goes to the

00:01:05   right because I rotate my phone clockwise. Huh? Okay. I thought that everybody turned it to the

00:01:11   left. Au contraire, mon frere. Yeah, most definitely. But I always just figured that

00:01:17   like the home button always goes on the right and that's the holdover, right? Who says the home

00:01:22   button always goes on the right? I don't know why I assume this. Wait, do you do it? Which way do

00:01:27   you turn your iPad? Where do the cameras go left or right? I can't tell anymore, quite frankly.

00:01:32   Well, because the Apple pencil always stays on top, right? Believe it or not, it depends on what

00:01:36   case it's in because the keyboard, the smart keyboard folio opens a different direction than

00:01:41   the smart cover. What? What? No, that's unacceptable. I think that's, I think that's true. I think the

00:01:48   smart keyboard folio opens on the other side. Oh God, no, that would drive me mad. I think so. I

00:01:55   think that's right. Is that correct? I don't know. That seems wild, Jason. Are you putting it on

00:02:00   upside down? I don't have it here. I think it's, well, no, because there's magnets, Myke. You can't

00:02:04   fight the magnets. So I don't know. I don't, I think it's usually, I think the camera's usually

00:02:10   to the left, but sometimes it's to the right. That's the beauty of that new iPad is that I'm

00:02:14   not supposed to have to care about it. I think it's usually to the left because my power cord

00:02:20   comes from the right side. So you typically hold your iPad and your iPhone in different,

00:02:28   like you turn them differently, right? The phone goes to the right and the iPad goes to the left.

00:02:32   I think, I think so. But again, you know, I don't know. There's no notch on the iPad,

00:02:39   so it's much less noticeable. What, you know, what direction? And the things we learned from

00:02:43   Snell Talk questions. Now I'm worried I got this wrong. I'm going to go get my iPad right now.

00:02:48   Hold on. Yep.

00:02:59   Okay. I've got an update. Both of them do attach on the same side. I think one of them is less

00:03:08   comfortable to hold in that orientation because the keyboard one has a fold in the flat back,

00:03:14   whereas the other one folds in the front.

00:03:17   Okay. So yeah, so on the smart cover, camera on the left for the iPad, camera on the right for the

00:03:29   iPhone. Notch on the right. That's wild, Jason. It's a weird world out there, Myke.

00:03:34   Anything could happen. For me, all the cameras go on the left because the home button or where

00:03:38   the home button would have been always went on the right for me. I don't know why that is. I don't

00:03:43   know if there's like some particular reason that I am that way. Let me also say, it's so rare that

00:03:52   I ever rotate my iPhone to landscape. I watch a lot of video on my iPhone. That is a thing that

00:03:58   I do. So then I will do it. I always have my iPad with me, basically. Yeah, I don't always. I never

00:04:06   use an app in landscape unless it's like a game or whatever. I never really take advantage of

00:04:14   landscape orientation on the iPhone. It's always been unsatisfying to me. I feel like the screen

00:04:21   it just doesn't lend itself to that. The aspect ratio, it just doesn't work for me.

00:04:26   I agree. Nathan, thank you for giving us this gift of this wild opening to this week's show.

00:04:35   If you would like to send in a question for #snelltalk, you just send out a tweet

00:04:40   with the hashtag #snelltalk and it may be included for a future episode. I will remind people or will

00:04:46   inform them for the first time in case you maybe new around here. Next week's episode is going to

00:04:52   be our WWDC draft. Me and Jason compete before every Apple event. We will make our picks. We

00:05:01   make our kind of prediction-based picks and then we will score them in the episode which comes after

00:05:07   the event because we are so close to WWDC now. Next week's episode is exactly one week until the WWDC

00:05:14   keynote. So we'll be doing our draft next week. And I mention this because if you have any draft

00:05:18   related #snelltalk questions then you should send those in in the intervening time. But we will be

00:05:23   going through everything draft related next week, all the rules, all the way that it works, before

00:05:28   we make our picks. I am very excited about the draft as I always am. Yeah, I haven't prepared

00:05:34   at all too so I realize I've got some work to do. Well, the preparation begins now. Yeah, it's hard

00:05:40   too, right? This is a tricky one WWDC because you're trying to gauge what they say on stage

00:05:46   and there's so much that is rumored for us to pick through. We have a lot of picks available

00:05:52   this time. It's hard work. I'm basically just going to go through that Mark Gurman bulleted list and

00:05:57   they will be our picks. So thank you for making that a bulleted list Mark, I really appreciate it.

00:06:03   I have some bridge follow-up because the 11-inch version arrived today and I wanted to kind of just,

00:06:13   I don't have a ton to say about this. It's fantastic. I really, I like the 11-inch version

00:06:21   about as much as I thought I would. It makes this iPad feel like a really tiny netbook or something.

00:06:27   Like it just feels like a really tiny computer. I have noticed over the last week of using the

00:06:34   bridge, I feel like I have nearly tweeted this like 20 times but figured it would make people mad,

00:06:40   but if I say it in a podcast, it might not be as bad. The 2018 iPad Pro with the bridge

00:06:48   keyboard is my favorite laptop I've ever owned. I just think it's perfect. I love it.

00:06:54   The either size? Either size?

00:06:56   Either size. I mean, I've only had the 11 for like half an hour, but like just using the

00:07:00   using the bridge keyboard with the iPad Pro, it's, I just look at it and it's like, it's perfect for

00:07:06   me. I love it. I absolutely love it. I know that there's a lot of contention about that. Like I've

00:07:13   had many Mac laptops, but just for me, this makes some, this just makes so much sense. And I love it

00:07:19   very much. And yeah, the 11 is really great. The keys are tiny. It will get, it takes some getting

00:07:23   used to, but I know I could adapt to it. Like there are some of them like the delete keys, like

00:07:28   the size of a regular letter key, right, which is like a strange thing. It is, I think even more so

00:07:35   than on the larger model, you notice that it is significantly chunkier, right, than the smart

00:07:40   folio. It's definitely more heft to it, but it has a substantial feeling and it looks fantastic.

00:07:45   I think that's why, uh, that's one of the reasons why I love this form factor even more now than I

00:07:53   did before, because bridge did such a fantastic job of making it look like a complete package.

00:07:59   So yeah, I really, I think it's really great. Um, I thoroughly recommend this one in the same way

00:08:05   that I will recommend the larger one too. Um, I, I reckon I will be just switching to the 11 inch

00:08:13   on my, uh, on this iPad too, as well. I was, I was wondering like, will I just use it for traveling

00:08:19   or not? And I think, no, I will probably be using it at home too, because the bridge is also,

00:08:23   it's actually really good for watching video too, which is a lot of what I do with this iPad. Like

00:08:28   I'll watch or read in bed, but now I actually don't have to hold it up because it holds itself

00:08:33   up. Right. And, and, and it, because the, the additional angle ability of the bridge compared

00:08:40   to the smart folio is great because I can, you know, I even think about like, you know,

00:08:45   they have the media mode or whatever, you put the keyboard behind it, that would work for the way

00:08:49   that I use this iPad better than the smart folio would, because the smart folio lost its like flip

00:08:56   around and stand up kind of thing that the, the keyboard, I should say that the folio still has.

00:09:01   So I, I, I'm all in on the 11 inch as well. The bridge, I think it's fantastic. This is one I

00:09:07   bought on my own, by the way, I bought this one myself. This was the one that I ordered and bridge

00:09:11   sent me the, the 12 inch. It looks like they are shipping now. I've been seeing a lot of people

00:09:16   getting them, right? So I think that they're, they're in full shipping mode now, but yeah,

00:09:20   I think that the 11 is, is, is really nice. I recommend it. And if you do have a technical

00:09:26   support issue or something with your bridge keyboard that you just received, contact the

00:09:31   company. Don't contact us. We are not the company. I think we've gotten at least two support questions

00:09:37   about bridge keyboards so far. Yeah. Oh, well. We are, I think advocates for it though, at this

00:09:43   point. We are, it's fine. I just, I can't help them with their order, right? Like I can't do that.

00:09:50   Doesn't, I'm not, I don't have that power. I would like to give a bit of follow out,

00:09:54   Jason. We have a new show on relay FM that I think might interest some upgrade listeners.

00:09:58   It's called adapt. Um, it is a brand new show focused on iOS productivity. It's hosted by

00:10:03   Federico Vitici and Ryan Christoffel of Mac stories. Uh, it has a bit of a twist to it in

00:10:08   that every episode they set challenges for each other. Like for example, find an iOS custom

00:10:13   keyboard that you could actually use to get work done or publish a article to look to your website

00:10:19   directly from Apple notes. Um, and then they try and find ways to make these things happen. So

00:10:24   it's a fun show that can help teach you more about using iOS, but in a different format, um, than

00:10:31   what I've seen elsewhere. So I think this is a, this is a really nice mix and we're very, very

00:10:35   happy to have it here on relay FM. So it's iPad by Friday. This is what I've been thinking, right?

00:10:41   Like that's it is do it by iPad. I think I do buy iPad. Sure. That works. It's a weekly challenge

00:10:48   podcast. It's actually fortnightly, um, challenge each other, challenge yourselves. Should we do

00:10:53   some upstream news? Jason Snell we've been holding onto a bit. Anything happened to, uh, yeah, we

00:10:58   should, we should. We said it would happen and it happened. Uh, Disney has assumed full control of

00:11:06   Hulu basically. Um, within five years of now Comcast will be selling at stake of Disney,

00:11:12   to Disney of Hulu for $5.8 billion. At least right. Like there's a minimum amount of money

00:11:18   that they'll get. They may get more as Hulu's valuation is adjusted, but it's, yeah, they're

00:11:23   going to get a big chunk of change from Disney over the next five years. Yeah. It's an interesting

00:11:26   thing for me. I'm not really sure if I've known of a deal to go this way before, but it's like,

00:11:30   we've agreed it. And at some point it's going to, it's like, it's very strange. It's, it is a very

00:11:34   strange deal. It's the unwinding of a joint venture and that's complicated. So it's one of these

00:11:39   things where they're sort of like making these horse it's horse trading to get to the, to get

00:11:43   to the final resolution they've been in talks. And so there's a, you know, there's a valuation set

00:11:48   that is, it can go up, but it can't go down. And there are agreements about sort of like when

00:11:53   content can go off, uh, when content's exclusive and not exclusive because there's a lot of NBC

00:11:59   universal content on Hulu. And obviously eventually they want to make, make their own streaming

00:12:03   service. It's supposed to come early next year and they want to migrate all of their catalog

00:12:08   to that over time. So they had to negotiate sort of like, how does it leave Hulu? And then, um,

00:12:14   what Disney wants is they want to control where Hulu goes next. And so I thought one of the more

00:12:20   interesting parts of this deal is that even though Comcast isn't going to get all that money right

00:12:24   now, Comcast is, I believe, giving up control of Hulu right now. Their, their, uh, seats on the

00:12:30   board are going away. And that was as a founder, uh, cause a bunch of people have asked like, well,

00:12:35   they only own a third, so can't Disney do what they want? And the answer is no, because Comcast

00:12:39   was one of the founders. One of the joint venture agreements was that the founders had, uh, the

00:12:45   ability to veto any substantial change to the business model of Hulu. So Disney had to buy them

00:12:51   out. That was a, that was a provision that, that earned Comcast $6 billion. And, uh, and they're

00:12:58   stepping away from the control part of it now. So they're obviously they're winding down their,

00:13:02   their, um, uh, control of Hulu. Uh, they're going to get paid and their content will sort of slowly

00:13:08   drain off of Hulu, but, uh, they had to make all of those plans and figure out the timing and all

00:13:14   of that, which is what they did last week. Yeah. So it's 20 until 2024, right? Sort of five-year

00:13:19   period, um, NBC universal will continue to have content, but it's not going to be exclusive

00:13:25   necessarily anymore. Yeah. Yeah. So things, and some of it will probably go and be, you know,

00:13:30   it will be, it'll progressively drop off the service and until it's all gone, that's, that's

00:13:34   the goal. And that's fine because what Disney wants to do and people, especially outside the

00:13:38   U S might be saying, you know, what do I care? And the answer is this is another leg in Disney's

00:13:43   worldwide streaming strategy. So Hulu is in the U S and I think maybe in Canada, but Hulu is,

00:13:48   is not a big international streaming service now, but, um, just as Disney is launching Disney plus

00:13:54   in the U S the goal will be to take all of the content they control and put it everywhere in

00:14:00   the world. And a bunch of stuff needs to expire a bunch of, you know, different rights agreements

00:14:03   with different companies, including Netflix. Uh, but that's the ultimate goal. So Hulu,

00:14:09   when Disney changes it into a different streaming service, and it's going to be a streaming service

00:14:13   for the kind of content that doesn't fit in the Disney plus brand because the Disney plus brand

00:14:18   is going to be a bit more of a family friendly brand. It's got the Disney name on it. Hulu,

00:14:24   you know, they do own the best example I can give is they own FX and FX, X John Landgraf, who ran

00:14:30   those networks is now basically in charge of, uh, a content operation within Disney. They're going to

00:14:36   feed Hulu. Like they'll feed, they'll feed those cable channels for as long as cable channels exist,

00:14:40   I suppose, but their strategy there is larger, I think with Landgraf and it is to also make a

00:14:46   bunch of originals that are in that kind of vein, um, for Hulu. And I imagine there will be some

00:14:53   more adult skewing Marvel shows in there like we used to see on Netflix. Um, and who knows what

00:15:00   else from the Disney catalog, um, Disney owns a lot of stuff. Now Disney owns like, um, there was

00:15:06   that talk about doing a reboot or continuation of Buffy the vampire Slayer. That's a 20th century Fox

00:15:11   entertainment property, which means it's now owned by Disney. If they created that they could put it

00:15:15   on Disney plus or they could put it on Hulu and, um, you know, the X files, like there's all of

00:15:20   these catalogs stuff, but not just catalog stuff. Also, you know, new content that they can do based

00:15:26   on those franchises and the intellectual property of them as well as the backlogs of them. And

00:15:31   that's more important for Disney. And honestly, Disney is so huge and they own so much stuff that

00:15:34   one streaming service or two, cause they also have ESPN plus is not enough to fit all the stuff that

00:15:40   they've got. And it allows them to, I think, smartly differentiate between a service that's

00:15:44   going to feel more like an HBO, uh, more like a, a, a service geared toward adults than Disney plus,

00:15:50   which a lot of adults are going to like, but it, there is an implicit, uh, family friendliness there

00:15:55   that I think is also what Apple is going for. So, uh, yeah, we'll see how it plays out, but that's

00:16:00   why Hulu, uh, and Disney buying Hulu is more relevant even if you're outside the U S because

00:16:05   this is part of the overall Disney strategy and it will be coming to whatever country you're in

00:16:10   inevitably some point in the next few years. And a surprise to nobody AT&T CEO Randall

00:16:16   Stevenson has said they will be pulling their marquee back catalog shows from other streaming

00:16:20   services. Once they had their own Warner media offering, they called out friends and ER as

00:16:24   examples of these shows that will be going back to a Warner media. They've also shown strongly hinted

00:16:29   that shows like the office will move away from Netflix as well. This is not a surprise to anyone,

00:16:34   a problem for Netflix. I think, and the, I always, you always see this and we've spoken about this

00:16:39   before, you know, like shows like the office shows like friends because, uh, friends is the top two

00:16:45   shows on Netflix. And so, you know, that's going to be a problem for them because that I really

00:16:52   think that it is something that keeps a lot of people in these services. And I really wonder

00:16:57   what's what it's going to be like in a few years. I think this came up on the TV talk machine podcast

00:17:03   last week that I do with Tim Goodman from the Hollywood reporter. And, uh, it was a listener

00:17:07   question saying, um, is Netflix in trouble when they lose all the other content from all the other

00:17:14   services, all the other studios and his response was no, they have so much content and they've made

00:17:21   so much original content that they will, um, that they will be fine. I do. I, I don't entirely agree.

00:17:30   I think he's right. I think Netflix is so huge now that it would be very hard to, uh, seriously wound

00:17:35   Netflix. I think it's number one, but it will get hurt because people will lose their favorite shows.

00:17:41   It will hurt them. It won't kill them. Yeah. If you, if you get Netflix because you want to

00:17:46   stream the office endlessly, you will not be able to do that at some point. And you're going to need

00:17:51   to get, um, a different service. You're going to need to get, uh, NBC universal service for the

00:17:56   office. And that's just, that's just how it's going to be. If you want to watch friends,

00:18:00   you're going to need to get Warner media service, but Netflix has known this was coming. Netflix

00:18:05   has been planning from the day they started doing original programming. Netflix has been building a

00:18:09   catalog knowing that at some point they're going to lose all the licenses and that's what they've

00:18:14   been working on. Now, I would say that Netflix does still have a problem, which is that it has

00:18:21   not created a, you know, huge franchises. So it's got a big catalog, but there is some strength in

00:18:29   being able like Disney to say, we have star Wars and Marvel and Netflix has bought a bunch of, uh,

00:18:35   like comic book publishers and other things. They are trying to develop stuff like that,

00:18:39   but I don't beyond maybe something like stranger things, which is still just a show and not a

00:18:44   franchise. Like I think they have not been as successful at that part of it, which is why I

00:18:51   keep thinking that they need to be in the mix to buy some other studios. Yeah. There was, um,

00:18:57   there was a report that's not even in our short show notes that I saw the other day

00:19:01   that CBS and Viacom, uh, which are brother and sister companies basically are considering buying

00:19:10   Lionsgate, which is basically stars. And that's an example of saying we're little,

00:19:16   we need more stuff. Um, but that there's going to still be some movement where stuff's going to get

00:19:21   bought out. CBS and Viacom might even get bought out. Um, I do think that that's a possible issue

00:19:25   for Netflix, but I think they, they are supremely confident in their ability to survive, but it's

00:19:30   going to be a different story. And the competition is going to be different. They're going to have to

00:19:33   compete completely on their originals, which they don't have to do now. And I think it will hurt

00:19:38   them, but like you said, it won't kill them. Yeah. It is interesting, right? That like Netflix

00:19:42   have created a bunch of great shows. They have not yet created anything which you could consider

00:19:48   a franchise yet. They may, but they have not done that yet. I mean, it's early days yet. They've

00:19:53   only been creating content for a few years, but what they haven't done is create something.

00:19:56   I, you know, correct me if I'm wrong, but what strikes me is that they've got some licensed

00:20:01   content from franchises and Marvel is a good example of that, but that's all going to be

00:20:05   taken back by the mothership. I'm not sure there's something that is completely owned by Netflix that

00:20:11   is, uh, has a big fan base and that they can generate like multiple TV shows based on it or,

00:20:18   or movies or whatever that is going to be like, if you want this amazing thing, the only place you

00:20:24   can get it is Netflix and Disney can do that for star Wars and Marvel. Yeah. It's like they have

00:20:28   created like house of cards, great TV show, but like there's never going to be a spinoff, right?

00:20:33   Like it's just not like that. It's, it's not a world that they, that they've made. Um, and Amazon

00:20:40   have picked up the international streaming rights for CBS is Jean-Luc Picard, Star Trek show. They

00:20:44   have more than 200 territories outside of the U S and Canada. They will have the episodes to

00:20:49   air with in 24 hours. This is interesting because they have this deal for Star Trek discovery

00:20:54   with Netflix. So, and my understanding is anything that is considered a spinoff of Star Trek discovery

00:21:01   is under that license, which means Netflix gets it outside of the U S and Canada, but Amazon stepped

00:21:06   up and presumably bid more than Netflix for, uh, the, the, uh, continuation of, uh, this character

00:21:16   from Star Trek, the next generation, this Patrick Stewart's captain from Star Trek, the next

00:21:19   generation. And they're doing a, uh, a new series. They're shooting it now, um, for airing later this

00:21:24   year. And, uh, so they're U S Canada deals the same CBS all access and the space channel and the

00:21:29   craze streaming service in Canada. Hi Canada. I learned what your streaming services are called.

00:21:34   Um, but everywhere else will be Amazon and not Netflix. And that, uh, to me that, that shows you

00:21:42   like Amazon has lots of international video ambitions too, and they kind of don't want to get

00:21:46   left out. And at least for now, CBS who has this franchise, doesn't have a product that they can

00:21:54   really roll out everywhere in the world. And so, um, as former CEO of CBS, Les Moonvis said a couple

00:22:01   of years ago, um, basically they got Netflix to fund Star Trek discovery, uh, by paying the

00:22:07   license fee. And then that essentially paid for the show or almost paid for the whole first season

00:22:12   of the show. Uh, which, which meant that they could just use it to launch their own streaming

00:22:16   service on the back of money from Netflix, the downside being that it's only in the U S so, um,

00:22:22   we'll see what happens in the long run there, but this is a big franchise that is willing to sell

00:22:27   its content outside of North America and, um, Netflix and Amazon are both interested.

00:22:32   And my understanding is Netflix has done really well with Star Trek discovery everywhere else in

00:22:35   the world. It's a, it's a Star Trek show that has probably been seen by way more people outside of

00:22:39   North America than in North America because it's, uh, on this niche streaming service here in the

00:22:45   U S and it's on Netflix everywhere else in the world. So anyway, if you want to see Patrick

00:22:50   Stewart, uh, you'll have to be on Amazon prime video instead. That's which is, uh,

00:22:55   frustrating. I think if you're a fan, right? Well, it's a split franchise, right?

00:22:58   I mean, it's a little bit like, it's a little bit like what Disney is, is doing or is going to do

00:23:05   where they're going to have Marvel shows on Disney. Plus if they have Marvel shows on Hulu as well,

00:23:10   they're sort of splitting the franchise. Like you really need both. Uh, but this is the case where,

00:23:14   yeah, yeah. Amazon has decided that they don't want Netflix to be the exclusive worldwide home

00:23:18   of Star Trek. And so they stepped in and, uh, I would be, yes, if I was only paying for one

00:23:24   service and I was a Star Trek fan, I would be frustrated by that. I am a Star Trek fan,

00:23:27   but I'm in the U S so I just have CBS all access. Today's episode is brought to you by a borough.

00:23:34   There is nothing quite like getting home after a long day, collapsing onto the sofa to relax

00:23:38   and probably digging into one of your favorite streaming services to pick some content that you

00:23:43   want to watch. That feeling is even better when you have a borough because it is the luxury couch

00:23:48   for real life. The borough sofa was created by a couple of students who thought that there must be

00:23:52   a better way to buy furniture than having to deal with showrooms and long, long delivery waits,

00:23:56   which is a thing I know all too well. When we bought our sofa a couple of years ago,

00:24:00   you kind of order it, you pay for it. It's like, okay, when's it going to arrive? And they're like,

00:24:04   well, we're not sure yet. We'll call you, which is not really when you need to sit down because

00:24:09   you have no sofa in your home. It's kind of frustrating to be like, well, it will be ready

00:24:13   when it's ready. A borough that you easily customize a high quality sofa online, which

00:24:19   can be shipped for free in one week. Borrow were recently named one of the world's most innovative

00:24:24   companies by Fast Company because they let you build a sofa that suits you. You can choose from

00:24:29   five fabrics, three leg finishes, two armrest styles, and any length. You can even add a

00:24:34   chaise lounge or ottoman. It's scratch and stain resistant so you don't have to worry about spills.

00:24:38   It has a built in USB charger so you can charge your devices right from your sofa. It's made from

00:24:42   high quality materials like sustainably sourced hardwood instead of flimsy particle board. Plus

00:24:47   they offer a curated selection of handwoven pillows to help jumpstart your interior style.

00:24:52   Borrow's sofas are also delivered in pieces, which is wonderful. When we bought that sofa that I

00:24:57   mentioned about, I cannot tell you the horror that I felt as I was not sure if it was going to make

00:25:01   its way through the hallways in our apartment building. You don't have to worry about stuff

00:25:04   like that with Borrow because it can all be really, really easily delivered to you. It's wonderful.

00:25:08   If you're in the market for a new sofa, get your living room and upgrade with Borrow. That's $75

00:25:14   you can get off your new sofa and free one week shipping just by going to Borrow.com/upgrade.

00:25:19   That's B-U-R-R-O-W.com/upgrade for $75 off your order and free one week shipping.

00:25:27   Our thanks to Borrow for their support of upgrade and all of Relay FM.

00:25:31   So we have the draft next week. The draft is where we will pick the things that we think are most

00:25:37   likely going to happen, right? So we're going to get our points. That's what we're going for.

00:25:40   These are the things that we think of everything available. What do we think is most likely?

00:25:45   But something that we never really do on upgrade because of the draft

00:25:49   is wish lists, talking about the things that me and Jason would really love to see.

00:25:54   JAYLEE: Occasionally some wish casting sneaks into the draft, but those people are punished.

00:25:59   Whoever does that is punished, right? Because the draft is all about the possible and the probable,

00:26:05   and you're playing a game where you want to pick the sort of rumored or likely things that are most

00:26:11   likely, which does mean that the draft is all about kind of like what's going to happen next

00:26:18   week when we do it next week. But that doesn't let us, other than when I pick Spinal Tap on stage,

00:26:24   which they performed recently together for the first time in years.

00:26:28   So it's available for next week. Thank you. The gamesmanship is already beginning. Anyway,

00:26:38   I thought that it would be, I thought this might be a fun thing to do the week before the draft,

00:26:42   which is talk a little bit about the stuff that we really, really would like to see in future

00:26:46   versions, if not this year, then, you know, at some point, what we would make us happy about iOS and

00:26:52   macOS that are maybe not the things that we're going to be able to pick next week because of our,

00:26:58   you know, our commitment to beating one another. Yeah. Like I have a, I have a small list of things

00:27:03   that I think are pretty esoteric. Like they're just like really important to me. So like one of

00:27:10   them I think is probably one that we both share is just far, far like a more improved audio support

00:27:20   on iOS. So just the ability to be able to like use an external audio device and have the audio

00:27:27   routed into two places. Right. So the idea being that like on the Mac, we could have a Skype call

00:27:32   and then use another application to record it. I feel like, um, this is something that gets lost

00:27:37   sometimes when we talk about storage stuff. Um, and we should mention that, uh, tomorrow, Tuesday,

00:27:43   I think Federico is posting a big story on Mac stories, uh, which I was doing my thoughts about

00:27:50   my wishlist before I read that story. Although now I feel like we're doing follow forward,

00:27:56   follow future. I don't know what it is where we're sort of like, uh, touching some of the same ground

00:28:02   that he touches, but, but when we talk about storage support, a lot of times what's going

00:28:06   on there is that it's somebody who's trying to record audio who ends up having to use an

00:28:09   external audio recorder because of all the limited iOS support for audio. And, um, and I think left

00:28:16   there on the floor that we need to talk about is iOS audio support is terrible. And by, by that,

00:28:22   what I mean is, um, and it's not just if you're a professional podcaster, but like different apps,

00:28:30   like you can't have two apps running using the microphone at one time. That is, that is really

00:28:35   annoying. Um, and would solve a lot of podcasting problems cause you could record your voice on one

00:28:40   app while also being on Skype on another app. But it's also stuff like I was, um, I was working on a

00:28:47   story or no, I was posting a podcast this weekend and, uh, I was exporting files out of ferrite and

00:28:53   ferrite has a microphone feature and the other apps do this too. The camera app does this if

00:28:58   it's in video mode, right? Where it's going to be recording audio. And if you're working and

00:29:03   listening to music, you basically can't when you're using apps that touch the sound system,

00:29:08   because the moment it touches the sound system, it pauses your audio and it pauses your music.

00:29:12   On my Mac, I can have music playing in a couple of different places and it just, they all play.

00:29:18   I can have different audio in different places. It all plays through and iOS is not, it does not

00:29:24   multitask audio. That's the fundamental thing. So we don't talk about it a lot because we focus on

00:29:28   things like, oh, I want to work, use a workaround, which gets me a file on an SD card, which should

00:29:33   be read by the files app. Yes, absolutely. But let's not leave out the larger thing here, which

00:29:39   is, um, a computing platform this powerful should probably have the ability to route audio better

00:29:45   than iOS does. And, and it's just not been something that Apple has given any attention to,

00:29:49   um, anytime recently. So that's high up on my dream list that will almost certainly not come true.

00:29:56   Yeah. It's like you look at that and it's like, well, we feel like at some point it probably

00:30:01   will happen, but then we think about all of the other things that really are more important,

00:30:05   right? Like, which is most of the stuff that we'll talk about next week for sure. And those things

00:30:11   are going to come first. Like this can't be, I can't imagine this being that high up on anybody's

00:30:17   feature list because it hasn't changed in so long that it doesn't necessarily feel like there's going

00:30:24   to be a pressing reason to change it. Right. But if you've ever like been listening to audio and

00:30:29   then switched to the camera app and video was selected and had your audio stop, it's like,

00:30:34   that's why, why, why does that or garage band or, you know, it's just, that's yeah, it's just,

00:30:41   they need to fix it. And so another one for me is whilst I will re I really want to see some

00:30:48   significant work on shortcuts just like in general, because I don't, I fear for this. I will

00:30:54   consistently fear for it coming to an end. I will feel like it's going to be something I'm always

00:31:00   worried about, but I would like to see the ability to trigger shortcuts without my intervention.

00:31:05   So time, location, you know, like some, some way to have some hooks into that system, which don't

00:31:14   aren't necessarily me pressing a button. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Because then I could have little

00:31:19   things that happen at certain times of the day, right? Like I could have, yeah, without me needing

00:31:25   to, cause there are shortcuts that I trigger every day around the same kind of time. Well,

00:31:30   I don't need to be involved in that process. Right. I mean, this is your, your morning. I mean,

00:31:33   they could get more intelligent too, but like even a morning routine that kicks off at a certain time

00:31:37   and, uh, and starts a whole bunch of tasks or when you get to a certain location or

00:31:43   another version of that would be being able to bind a keyboard shortcut that's available

00:31:48   everywhere or in a particular app that kicks off a shortcut. Um, that would be something that I

00:31:53   would love too, because there are, uh, and I have that on my Mac, right? There are keyboard

00:31:57   shortcuts that work the same everywhere and kick off something on my Mac. And there are other ones

00:32:01   that are for a particular app and you can't have that level of customization on iOS. Give me

00:32:08   something else that you would love to see. Um, I'm trying to, I, this is like a reverse draft. I don't

00:32:12   want to pick something that's, that's, uh, that's super obvious. Um, so let's talk about external

00:32:18   displays. Cause I actually think that this is a case where their Apple's not going to give me what

00:32:21   I want, which is, um, I would like to be able to attach an iPad to an external display and have it

00:32:28   work, not in an app outputting to a second display mode, like a keynote presentation kind of thing,

00:32:35   not mirroring, but apps running on an external display. I would, you know, most particularly like

00:32:41   two things to enable that one is external pointing device support, which may actually happen.

00:32:45   And the other thing is, and this is probably not going to happen, but this is what I want,

00:32:49   which is I want support for external touch screen devices so that I can attach my iPad or phone even

00:32:59   to a, uh, touch screen of whatever size and put apps on it and have it work. This is effectively

00:33:06   the model of attaching a Mac pro to a monitor and having a keyboard and mouse, right? Like it's

00:33:12   that idea of like, all you're doing is you want the same experience, but you want it on a bigger

00:33:18   screen. Right. So like you could have this, basically you would be using a very large iPad,

00:33:25   but it's kind of being like, it's all just running from the small one, but it's in a docked mode or

00:33:32   whatever. And there's lots of issues, right? Because are touch screens made by third parties,

00:33:36   especially, you know, are they good enough? I don't know. Are there external touch screens that

00:33:42   are multi-touch that are going to give you the quality of a touch screen experience? Probably.

00:33:47   I would guess, right? Since Windows has been able to do touch for a long time. I just don't know,

00:33:50   cause I don't have any experience with running an external touch screen on Windows. Right.

00:33:54   Even greater though, like Apple supports this and it makes their own. Well, that's, that's,

00:33:58   that's been my big conspiracy theory all along is, is if Apple adds touch screen,

00:34:04   external touch screen support to iOS and rolls out new monitors, the new monitors could be

00:34:08   touch screens. And then maybe they also add touch screen support to macOS, but even if they don't

00:34:12   initially, it wouldn't matter if you can attach an iOS device to those screens. Now they're touch

00:34:18   screens. That's my, that's my big kind of touch conspiracy theory is you bring touch to the Mac,

00:34:25   you make the external displays touch screens. They're of a quality of touch screen that iPads

00:34:31   are and iOS devices can also drive them and put their apps on them. And then you're using that.

00:34:37   And then, you know, hopefully they're made in a mode where you can like lower them and have

00:34:40   them be in a more ergonomically correct kind of environment. And then separately, you know,

00:34:44   from the touch conspiracy is external pointing device support and external monitor support.

00:34:50   So that if I want to sit at my desk with an iPad, um, I can throw an app up on the screen up there

00:34:58   and still actually be able to use it because I can use a keyboard and a mouse for it in that mode.

00:35:03   And then I can disconnect and it goes back to being on my main iPad screen and uses touch and

00:35:08   that we should be able to do both. The idea of advances to iPad multitasking is one that everyone

00:35:14   is talking about, right? Like it's, we're expecting to see some kind of refinement to that system,

00:35:19   but a very specific thing that I would like, uh, is for more keyboard shortcuts to exist

00:35:24   on multitasking. You know, this is something that gray first talked about it. This was like

00:35:30   when iOS 11 came out the idea of like when you do a spotlight search, which is a keyboard related

00:35:36   thing, and you scroll down to the app that you want, why should there not be a way to then open

00:35:42   that app into like the left view or the right view or into a slide over with a keyboard shortcut

00:35:47   on that option. That would be incredible. It makes it's where my hands already are to perform

00:35:53   the search that I need to perform. Right. So like, especially because if you have a keyboard,

00:35:58   like spotlight is a different experience anyway, because you can't call spotlight from the system

00:36:06   anywhere except with a external keyboard, right? Like you have to go to the home screen to bring

00:36:15   up spotlight, but if you have an external keyboard, you can press command space and you can bring up

00:36:19   that view to do the search. Right. So this is already like its own special additional pro user

00:36:27   feature, but then you still have to make your search and then touch the screen. Like it seems

00:36:33   like this, this weird, like let me just complete this whole interaction using the keyboard, which

00:36:39   is the only way I got here in the first place. Um, so I would love, I would absolutely love to

00:36:44   see that and larger multitasking things that I'm not a hundred percent sure are going to be

00:36:48   corrected, but I'll, I'll throw it in there since we're talking about it now, which is

00:36:52   clearly showing what the focus is, especially because if you're using a keyboard, I cannot

00:36:59   tell you how many times I am in a text editing app and Safari in split view. And I hit command L

00:37:06   because I want to load a new URL in Safari. And instead it kicks off whatever command L is in my

00:37:12   text editor, which is not what I want. Now I have to undo, undo, and then I have to tap over in

00:37:16   Safari and it's like, I want to see at a glance what the, you know, focus pain is or whatever you

00:37:26   want to call it. And ideally have a keyboard shortcut to go to the other one. Yep. So that

00:37:32   then I can issue a keyboard shortcut in that app. And, uh, we can't do that right now. So

00:37:38   I'll talk it about a keyboard shortcut to go to another app, please fix whatever you did with the

00:37:43   command tab switcher, which after two years, I still don't understand. Like when I hit command

00:37:48   tab, Oh yeah. Sometimes apps that should be in there are just not in there. And I can't

00:37:53   apps that are called by other apps. Don't end up in the command tab, which I have that happen all

00:37:58   the time where I'm like, I'm in Safari and then I'm back in a text editor. And then, and, uh,

00:38:03   then I go back into command tab to look for Safari and it's not there. And it's because Safari was

00:38:08   it launched in a way that the command tab apps, which are Danes acceptable. So it's like, Nope,

00:38:15   that didn't happen. Let me tell you that app. I don't see that as acceptable. Like just whatever

00:38:19   it is that you need to do, just do like do it. It should be every app. If an app is in my face,

00:38:25   it should be in the command tab switcher then right. It shouldn't, there should not ever be

00:38:29   an exception to that. No, like that a hundred percent. I, it's like, I know that there is a,

00:38:35   like, like a set kind of rule system as to what goes in there, but I can never remember it.

00:38:40   All I know is in that moment, I'm annoyed. It's not there.

00:38:43   Yeah. Yeah. Let me, um, throw out, you mentioned shortcuts. Let me throw out some other shortcuts,

00:38:50   okay. Things that I want, some of which I think will happen. And some of which I think will

00:38:53   probably not, but I have a whole basket of them. So I might as well mention them now,

00:38:56   um, interactive shortcuts that will take an input, um, from your voice Siri shortcut,

00:39:03   and then we'll take that and translate it and then use it as an input into a shortcut,

00:39:07   which you can't do now to say, you know, um, set my scene to blah, blah, blah, and blah, blah,

00:39:14   blah gets passed to a shortcut for set my scene like that. Right. That's what I want. I want to

00:39:21   be able to put essentially variables in commands using Siri shortcuts. Um, I want shortcuts to run.

00:39:27   You listed a bunch of things. I'm not sure if you mentioned these or not, but I want shortcuts to be

00:39:31   able to run hidden where I don't see them at all. I want them to run with a, or with a minimal

00:39:36   interface where I can see that a shortcut is running. But what I don't want is to keep going

00:39:41   back to the shortcuts app and having essentially the code of the shortcut open and then very

00:39:46   quickly walk through it. It is a really bad experience as a user. I know why it happens.

00:39:52   It's because of the way that these app apps communicate with one another. You have to do it,

00:39:57   but this is now an Apple owned app. It should just be able to run invisibly, essentially,

00:40:02   or backgrounded and just give me some minor interface indication that it's running a shortcut.

00:40:06   I want folders in the shortcuts app. Everybody wants that who uses shortcuts because there's,

00:40:12   it's, uh, we, you and I both know people who have hundreds of shortcuts and there's no organizational

00:40:17   principle to them. It's ridiculous. And if they don't want folders, then filter based on color

00:40:21   or filter based on tag or something, but there's gotta be an organizational principle there

00:40:25   somewhere. And the big thing, and this is a thing that I, again, I think isn't going to happen,

00:40:29   but I want it to happen. And it goes back to some things we've talked about here before

00:40:32   Brent Simmons wrote a post about how great Apple events were. Apple events were invented in

00:40:36   system seven back in like 1990. They're very old and that's the background app communication

00:40:42   standard on the Mac today. Um, I, I don't think Apple events as a thing is ever going to come

00:40:47   to iOS because it is, there's probably a new way of doing that technology that takes into account

00:40:53   what software is like now, instead of in 1990. That said, having a way for apps, both on the Mac

00:41:00   and on iOS to pass information back and forth that doesn't involve embedding them in URL strings,

00:41:05   which is the current method used on iOS is something Apple should prioritize because

00:41:10   it gets to some of these things like shortcuts coming to the foreground when it's running,

00:41:15   other apps that are being asked to do a task coming to the foreground. It makes it a really

00:41:20   ugly experience doing automation on iOS, but it's the only way to do it right now is you call a URL.

00:41:27   It's handled by an app. The URL gets passed to that app. That app launches. It looks at the URL.

00:41:32   It does some stuff. Maybe then it launches a different app. There's an X callback URL or

00:41:36   whatever. And you end up with this just dance of apps. And you know, it's got to stop. And the way

00:41:41   it stops is that there's an official sanctioned way for apps to talk to each other and send each

00:41:45   other commands and get data back from them. And, you know, safe, secure, permissions, all of those

00:41:51   things should be there in a modern version of this. Apple spent time locking down a lot of Apple

00:41:56   script and other automation stuff on the Mac for security reasons. Great. A modern version of this

00:42:01   would take all the security stuff into account. But what's there now, while powerful, is a

00:42:07   ridiculous hack built on top of something that was never meant to be used this way.

00:42:13   And Apple needs to fix it. One thing that I feel like I will ask for forever but will never get is

00:42:18   better rich text support. Like I just, if I just want to be able to take a bulleted list from one

00:42:25   app, copy it and paste it into another app and remain a bulleted list. Sometimes it works. Most

00:42:30   of the time it doesn't. Even amongst Apple's own apps, it's not just a Google Docs thing.

00:42:35   There is rich text frameworks on iOS, but nobody seems to use them for whatever reason. Like,

00:42:42   I just want my text formatting to be as reliable on iOS as it is on the Mac. I feel like this

00:42:49   shouldn't be a hard thing. Right? Like I feel like this shouldn't have to be as hard as it is.

00:42:54   But it is. And I really wish that it wasn't. I've lost count of the amount of time. And I would hate

00:43:04   to know the actual amount of time I have spent converting bulleted lists back to bulleted lists

00:43:10   and other applications. Like I really just, please, somebody, someone out there must be able to

00:43:16   do something about this. Please help me. That's all I want. How about this one, Myke? You'll like

00:43:23   this. I wrote a little piece about this a while ago. Apple Pencil is input mechanism. I want,

00:43:29   and this is another thing I don't think Apple's ever going to do, but Apple Pencil is great.

00:43:34   There are cases, I even have cases, Myke. I was editing a podcast in Fairlight using the Apple

00:43:38   Pencil this weekend and I was adding some chapter markers. And I had this moment where I was like,

00:43:42   I was holding my pencil in my hand, doing the edits. And then I would tap on the

00:43:45   add chapter marker thing. And a little text window came up. Then you know what I did?

00:43:50   I set my Apple Pencil down, lifted up my fingers and typed a word. And I thought,

00:43:55   this is why we need Apple Pencil as an input mechanism for text in iOS, which is I should

00:44:02   be able to write that text. And then it should be able, this is Newton stuff people. And it should

00:44:07   go where I want it to go. I should be able to write text on the screen or whether it's anywhere

00:44:12   on the screen or it's in a kind of quote unquote keyboard, that's actually a text entry area.

00:44:16   I should be able to do that and have it go in the text entry box where the little cursor is

00:44:20   blinking in iOS. And it's ridiculous that I can't do that because that's a mode shift that I

00:44:25   shouldn't have to make. I'm entering text in a text box. I am holding a pencil. We should be

00:44:30   able to connect these two things, but I don't have the opportunity to do that. All I have is

00:44:33   the opportunity to tap on a software keyboard. So I want Apple to say, hey, pencil users, yes,

00:44:41   you can write words and they will be translated into text as you write them, just like on a Palm

00:44:48   Pilot or a Newton. And again, a similar vein. I feel like I know this limitation. I'm not too

00:44:56   bothered about the fact that it exists, but I would love it if they fixed it, which is the fact that

00:45:01   like the Apple pencil cannot interact with system level controls. So you can't use the Apple pencil

00:45:09   to trigger notification center, control center. You can't use it to adjust the size of any

00:45:15   applications in split view, like to move the little chiclet around, right? You can't do any

00:45:21   of that. You've never been able to do it. You can't use it to swipe up to bring the dock up.

00:45:24   I think I would like those things. I feel like I understand that sometimes it could actually make

00:45:30   some collisions. And if that's the reason that they don't do it, like that, you know, you have your

00:45:35   pen and you're accidentally changing the size of your application, then I get it. But if that

00:45:38   isn't the reason and it's just some kind of like methodology, right? Like, oh, you should never be

00:45:44   able to use this. Like, no, I would like to be able to change the size of an application in split

00:45:49   view with the Apple pencil. Like that would be great. I would love that. But that's like a real

00:45:54   small one for me because it's one that doesn't bother me that much, but I wouldn't mind if it

00:45:59   existed. Here's one that I've got, which is, again, it's part of some things that may come true,

00:46:04   but I think there's other stuff that is not going to come true. And it's in that list of

00:46:08   files stuff needs to be better. You know, we may get USB storage support. Boy, I hope we do. We

00:46:14   may get native server support where you can just put in an SMB server and connect to it instead of

00:46:19   having to use a third-party app to do that. But there are some other things that are hanging out

00:46:23   there. Creating folders in various places is something you can't do depending on where you

00:46:29   are and what the folder is. There are places where you literally, you can save a document,

00:46:34   but you can't make a folder and then save the document in it. It's maddening. It makes me not

00:46:39   want to use iCloud drive. It makes me not want to use the files app. I hate it. And then the other

00:46:44   part of this is the on my device folder, the on my iPad, on my iPhone folder, which is a place,

00:46:49   by the way, where you can't make, you can put files and on the Mac, you can make folders,

00:46:54   but you can't do it on iOS. And this is one of those cases where it's so close and they just

00:47:00   need to push it over the line. But because it doesn't quite work right, people think it doesn't

00:47:06   even exist. It's fascinating. There was a conversation in ATP last week where they all

00:47:11   agreed that it would be really good if there was a place for you to save files on your device on iOS

00:47:16   that didn't sync them to the cloud. And I'm just beating my head against the wall while I'm

00:47:20   listening to this because there absolutely is. It's on my iPhone or on my iPad. It's right there in

00:47:26   the files app listed as a provider. The problem is it doesn't behave right. And it's got a list of

00:47:32   apps in it that have decided to make folders there, but you can't make a folder there or just drop a

00:47:37   file in on my device. You have to drop it in a folder in on my device and then remember where

00:47:43   you put it for later. And it's just, it's ridiculous. And that's, that's a case where I feel

00:47:48   like they're very close and maybe they will do this, but I'm so dispirited. It's so bad now that

00:47:55   I'm a little dispirited that they don't understand what they're doing with this one and what people

00:48:01   want from it. But when fairly tech savvy people think you literally have no place to save files

00:48:06   on an iPad that doesn't sync with iCloud drive, you have made a mistake somewhere along the line

00:48:11   with your local storage stuff. And it's there. It just doesn't work right.

00:48:14   - Is there anything else you wanted to call out? - One last thing, which is in the wildest of wild,

00:48:21   which is support for multiple faces using face ID instead of alternate appearances,

00:48:28   actual multiple faces. So you can say, this is my face. This is my child's face. This is my

00:48:34   wife's face, whatever it is. These are other faces in the family. Please let them unlock the phone

00:48:39   without training there. You know, you can do it now, but you're sort of training a face that's an

00:48:47   amalgam of existing faces. And I worry that it leads to complexity and brokenness eventually.

00:48:53   I want explicit support for multiple faces and more wildly, especially of use on iPads,

00:48:59   explicit support for multiple users with those faces so that I can set up an iPad with a couple

00:49:05   of kids or with a kid and an adult and have it work, whether it's a faces or face ID or a touch

00:49:12   ID on older iPads. It still kills me that there isn't any way to set up a shared device on iOS.

00:49:20   And I don't think this is a priority for Apple. They just want you to buy more devices. But there

00:49:24   are so many examples when you throw in a screen time and other parental controls. The fact is that

00:49:30   there are iOS devices that are shared and Apple makes you pretend that they're not. And it's

00:49:36   frustrating. So if you've heard us give these lists and you're like, why didn't they talk about

00:49:41   dark mode or anything like that? That's what we got you next week. This is our like,

00:49:46   we don't think these things are going to happen, but we'd love it if they did. That is what this

00:49:50   wishlist is all about. We should talk about the Mac. But before we do, let's just...

00:49:58   If we have to. Today let me talk about our second sponsor for this episode, and that is

00:50:04   Luna Display. If you have a Mac and an iPad in your life, Luna Display, you want one of these.

00:50:09   Because our friends over at Luna Display save you so much time, effort, money to improve your

00:50:15   workflow. Because you don't need to spend a fortune on extra displays for your Mac because

00:50:20   you already have that beautiful iPad display sitting right there that you can use as a

00:50:24   wireless display for your Mac. All you need to do is plug in the Luna Display dongle,

00:50:28   it's a little dongle, and you can connect over Wi-Fi or USB and have more screen real estate

00:50:33   available to you. You can have multiple screens without needing to spend money on another actual

00:50:38   screen. It's also fantastic when you're traveling, you can use Luna Display to travel with you on

00:50:43   your devices, with your devices. So you could maybe, you know, I imagine someone sitting on a

00:50:48   train and they have their laptop and they have like a big table in front of them, they have their

00:50:52   iPad and they can connect their Luna Display. They can do it over USB so they don't even need

00:50:56   to connect to any kind of like weird Wi-Fi that might be on the train. You can get all your work

00:51:00   done with multiple monitors and have all that screen real estate available to you. I use my

00:51:03   Luna Display all the time and I absolutely love it. It's become a real like indispensable part

00:51:08   of the way that I get work done on iOS especially. It's absolutely fantastic. It has been, you know,

00:51:13   all over the press and people have spoken so great about it. Like for example,

00:51:18   TechCrunch described the visual fidelity as frankly stunning, which I agree with.

00:51:22   It looks so good. Many, many times I've used Luna Display. I kind of forget what I'm doing and just

00:51:28   assume that I'm using the Mac, but I'm not. It's all in an iOS app. It's a wonderful thing.

00:51:32   Believe me when I say that you will be super happy with Luna Display. So go to lunadisplay.com,

00:51:38   L-U-N-A-D-I-S-P-L-A-Y.com and once you're there, use the promo code UPGRADE at checkout and you'll

00:51:44   get 10% off your order. That's lunadisplay.com and promo code UPGRADE at checkout for that 10%

00:51:50   off. Our thanks to our friends over at Luna Display for their support of this show and Relay FM.

00:51:55   So tell me what you got for Mac OS. What is your wishlist for Mac OS?

00:52:01   - Yeah, I mean, it's harder to build this. This is a shorter thing because so much of it is like,

00:52:07   look, obviously Marzipan is gonna happen, right? Marzipan. So some of my stuff is Marzipan related,

00:52:14   but like one of the things they said last year in I think maybe the State of the Union that I keep

00:52:20   mentioning and nobody else seems to mention is Apple made a big deal about how they're

00:52:25   syncing up the low-level stuff between iOS and Mac OS because they had drifted apart.

00:52:29   And Marzipan is obviously the reason why, because you really need the subsystems,

00:52:33   you need the APIs, you need all that stuff to be pretty consistent across Mac OS and iOS if

00:52:38   you're going to have a unified app platform on top of it. I think that has to follow. I think that

00:52:46   they're still doing that. And so maybe there'll be a draft pick in here, who knows? But overall,

00:52:54   I wanna see more syncing up of this. There are still things between the Mac and iOS,

00:52:58   this will make some Mac users unhappy, but there's still things between Mac OS and iOS

00:53:02   that are just like, they're different and I don't know why they're different.

00:53:04   Yes, of course, maybe the rumors are parental controls and screen time stuff syncing up and

00:53:13   getting a new messages app, but what about like support for cellular devices? That's not a thing

00:53:18   that is in Mac OS, but it's an iOS. Does the system preferences app finally become a settings

00:53:24   app? But I think more broadly, what I wanna just say is I want to see more sync ups that we haven't

00:53:31   thought of. I would like somebody at Apple to have gone through Mac OS and iOS and compiled a list of

00:53:36   things that the Mac does one way and iOS does a completely different way and say, how do we make

00:53:41   this that there's one way that our platforms do this? And I think we'll probably see some of that,

00:53:46   but I think that needs to keep happening because as you unify these platforms, the worst thing is

00:53:52   that you go from platform A to platform B and suddenly it's like, well, it just doesn't do that

00:53:56   that way. It does it this other way. Well, why? I don't know. Like if there's a good reason,

00:54:01   there's a good reason. Great. Like if you've got a good reason, well, the Mac is different because

00:54:07   it's got this keyboard and trackpad already there and it's got a menu bar and therefore it has to be

00:54:12   this way. I'm fine with it, but I think a lot of stuff it's gonna be, well, this grew from this

00:54:16   direction and this grew from that direction and therefore they are different. And I guess what

00:54:20   I'd say is I'm kind of over the difference for differences sake. If they do the same thing in

00:54:27   the same way, they should be the same on both platforms. Yeah. I think like as well, it's

00:54:36   important to note, right? Like that they can meet in the middle or go one way or another way, right?

00:54:41   Like I know that what you're not trying to say here is the Mac should do everything like iOS,

00:54:45   like the iOS. iOS in theory could do things that are more like the Mac way of doing them,

00:54:50   right? But it's about like finding a place which makes the most sense. If something's gonna do,

00:54:55   if you're gonna make it look like it should be the same thing, make it work the same way.

00:54:59   Yep. I struggled really to think of Mac OS stuff that I want that isn't like super obvious stuff,

00:55:05   right? Like Mazapan or Screen Time, which are things that I really want. But the one thing that

00:55:12   I did think about that I'm just interested to see how it ends up playing out is the idea of

00:55:18   making the Mac App Store more of an interesting proposition for developers

00:55:26   rather than making it an unavoidable thing. I feel like we are moving towards Apple

00:55:35   basically increasing the amount of developers that they have on the Mac App Store because

00:55:40   if you're not there, it's gonna be a problem for you. Like for example, Mazapan, right? Like I

00:55:46   really, I mean, I reckon that if you want to bring your iOS app to the Mac, you will be putting it

00:55:50   through the Mac App Store. Like that is the way you would do this. And so that makes it for a lot

00:55:56   of developers, right? It's like, well, this, I will have to use the Mac App Store because there's

00:55:59   no other way to do it. I would just be keen to see them try and do something. I don't know what,

00:56:04   to make it more friendly to that community a little bit more as a way instead of just being

00:56:12   like, well, we've got all these great new features, you should be in the Mac App Store if you want to

00:56:17   use them. That's it. The end of that. Do you know what I mean? I think this is a path that they're

00:56:21   going down, right? Like the whole message about panic and bare bones that was on stage last year

00:56:26   is them saying, you know, we are making changes and they have made changes. I think for you,

00:56:33   what you want is for them to say, we're making more, even more changes to what apps are able to

00:56:39   do and still be in the Mac App Store. And I think, I think Apple is doing this two-pronged approach,

00:56:46   right? Where they are building security things that allow apps to ask for more access. And if

00:56:55   they abide by that, they get in the Mac App Store. Things that were previously just not allowed. Now

00:57:00   there's a way to ask and you can ask and you can be approved by the App Store and you ask the user

00:57:06   and the user says yes, and then they get to do their thing. And then the other prong is if you're,

00:57:12   if you can't be in the App Store, they're adding these security features on the outside for being

00:57:18   able to sign apps and notarize apps and things like that. And they are doing both. And I think

00:57:25   they are doing both. And I think that's good because the, I think there will probably always be

00:57:30   a need for Mac apps that are outside the Mac App Store, at least in the near term. But the way you

00:57:38   get more people in the Mac App Store in part is by making it that they don't have to redesign their

00:57:42   app in order to get in there. And that means continuing to add ways that Mac apps can ask

00:57:49   for permission and have it be granted, which they seem to be paying attention to now in a way that

00:57:56   they weren't for the first few years of the Mac App Store, where they really had very limited

00:57:59   permissions you could ask. And then there were a set of rules and you were either in or you were

00:58:04   out. What else do you have for the Mac? Well, so more broadly, I guess I would say, I want,

00:58:13   I'll kind of roll this together into one thing. I want old Mac apps to be able to act like new Mac

00:58:19   apps. And I want new Mac apps to be able to act like old Mac apps. I want them both. I want as

00:58:26   much as possible, and this is the wish casting part because I don't think it's going to be able

00:58:29   to happen. It's certainly not in year one. I want as a user to not feel like I am using app style

00:58:38   A and app style B. I would like developers of old style Mac apps to be able to do stuff that the new

00:58:45   style apps have access to. I want them Siri shortcuts is a good example. If they're going to

00:58:50   be Siri shortcuts on the Mac and they only work in marzipan, as the rumor is, like, I don't like that.

00:58:55   I want bare bones to be able to take BB at it and add something to it that gives it access to

00:59:02   Siri shortcuts, even if it's through a specific mechanism or they have to add something, they have

00:59:06   to learn how to do stuff that previously only iOS developers have to do. I just want a pathway for

00:59:12   them so that they can have their app and actually have it have access to the new features rather

00:59:18   than having it be barred from anything new because that'll only be if you're on the other side of the

00:59:23   fence. And that includes, yeah, so like not just Siri shortcuts, but shortcuts in general. Like,

00:59:30   I want, if they bring shortcuts the app to the Mac, I want old Mac apps to be able to find a way

00:59:35   to support them. Even if, yes, it will take more work and maybe they won't be willing, but maybe

00:59:40   they will. Maybe they want to be a full-fledged Mac citizen and this is now a part of it. This

00:59:44   is the new automation system of the, it's the automation system of the future on the Mac, get

00:59:49   on board now. We can't rewrite our app to be a marzipan app, but what we can do is do the work to

00:59:54   get this supported. I want to see that. On the other side of the fence, I want these marzipan

01:00:01   apps to have as many tools as possible for them to feel like Mac apps and not a weird iOS app that's

01:00:08   stuck in a window. And I know that some of that will happen, but the more the better. And beyond

01:00:15   that, I do, this automation schism that's out there, like I want a way to control those apps.

01:00:23   And that could be a, I don't know what that is. Maybe it's shortcuts and maybe there's a way to

01:00:30   control shortcuts from the other side and that can be the bridge. But it's another one of those

01:00:34   examples where I don't want the marzipan app to feel weird. I know it's going to be a little weird,

01:00:40   but if I'm going to have a wish here, my wish is going to be that old Mac apps are over here and

01:00:48   marzipan apps are over here and I want them to be in the middle. I want the old stuff to be able to

01:00:54   pick up some of the new and I want the new stuff to be able to at least bridge the gap with the old

01:01:00   somehow so that as somebody working on the Mac, I can use them interchangeably and not have it be

01:01:07   really weird because all of a sudden this behavior is different because this must be app type B

01:01:13   instead of app type A, because I think that is going to be a very, very bad user experience on

01:01:18   the Mac. So the more Apple can do to make apps just feel like apps on the Mac, the better.

01:01:25   - Yeah, I don't really think that it helps anybody to make this class of application feel lesser than

01:01:34   in any way. - Either class.

01:01:36   - It's a very good point. Yeah, either class. - I mean, that's how I feel is that it's just users,

01:01:42   fundamentally users should not have to know, "Oh, this is a marzipan app. I use it like this,"

01:01:49   because they're not going to know, right? They're not going to know. And so, and I bring some baggage

01:01:56   here from the OS X transition and from the carbon and cocoa era of apps where they really did behave

01:02:04   differently. Like there was an era in there where like drag and drop wasn't the same and it was

01:02:10   infuriating because you get your muscle memory about how to use your computer and then you do

01:02:15   something and it's like, "Why didn't that work?" And the answer is because of the method by which

01:02:22   that application was developed, which is different from the method by which this other application

01:02:27   was developed. And as a user, I don't care. I just want it to work. So consistency, I think this is

01:02:32   going to be the hardest thing. I don't think they're going to get it right the first time.

01:02:35   I think it's going to take time. I think it's going to take a lot of work on Apple's part.

01:02:38   I think it's going to take a lot of work on developers' parts. But we are wish-casting

01:02:41   here a little bit. That is my big wish cast, which is you got to get the Mac platform to

01:02:46   feel consistent. We can talk about what we would like to see on the Mac. And there are people who've

01:02:53   been using the Mac a long time who said, "I don't want it to look like iOS," or iOS users who are

01:02:57   like, "Yeah, it could look more like iOS." Apple as a platform owner is going to sort of land on

01:03:02   a place of like, "Here's what we want the Mac to look like in five years or three years or whatever."

01:03:08   Apple's going to make some decisions. It's probably going to integrate more iOS concepts

01:03:12   than the Mac currently has. But for me, number one is, can we make it consistent? Because what

01:03:20   I don't want is weird app type A if you're used to app type B or vice versa. I don't want that.

01:03:28   All right, we should move into some #AskUpgrade questions. But before we do,

01:03:33   let's thank our friends over at Squarespace for their support of this week's episode.

01:03:37   No matter what type of website you want to make, you should be making your next move with

01:03:41   Squarespace with the ability to customize beautiful award-winning templates, with the

01:03:45   ability to grab a unique domain name to give your website the brand that it needs, and so much more.

01:03:50   They are the place that you should be going to when you have any type of project that you want

01:03:54   to put online. No matter what type of website you want to make, Squarespace is the all-in-one

01:03:58   platform to let you do it. There is nothing to install or patch or upgrade. Whether you want to

01:04:02   create a store, a blog, a site for a business, a site for an event, maybe a wedding, maybe you

01:04:08   want to create a site for a local group or some kind of social group that you have, Squarespace

01:04:13   has all of the tools and functionality that you're going to need and none of the stuff that you have

01:04:17   to worry about. It's super easy to customize. The templates that they have, they're not just design,

01:04:22   they're also functionality. So you can say like, "Oh hey, I want to build a website for my business

01:04:27   because I have an online store." And they'll set it up with a lot of the page layout that you'll

01:04:32   need as well, which you can turn on and turn off what you need and what you don't. You can add your

01:04:35   own pages in. But it can also just help you think about the way that you should structure the website

01:04:40   that you're looking to build. It's really, really clever stuff. I've been a happy Squarespace

01:04:45   customer for probably 10 years now. I've used them for many projects and I have many more projects

01:04:49   that I will use Squarespace for as well, because I don't want to have to worry about any of the

01:04:53   fiddly bits of getting the website set up. I just want to go in, make it look the way that I want,

01:04:57   put the content that I want there and publish it to the world. And that is exactly what Squarespace

01:05:01   allows you to do. They have 24/7 customer support as well. It's award-winning if you need any help,

01:05:06   they are there to help you. Believe it or not, you can go and try out a free trial right now,

01:05:12   and it's fully featured. So you can go and build your entire website with Squarespace. Just go to

01:05:16   squarespace.com/upgrade and you can do that. And then when you're ready to launch your website out

01:05:21   to the public, you can just sign up for one of their plans. They start at just $12 a month,

01:05:25   but you can get 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain and show your support for this

01:05:31   show just by using the offer code upgrade at checkout. So go to squarespace.com/upgrade and

01:05:36   use the offer code upgrade to get that 10% off your first purchase. Our thanks to Squarespace

01:05:41   for their continued support of this show and all of Relay FM. Squarespace, make your next move,

01:05:46   make your next website. It is time for some #AskUpgrade. Jason, fire the lasers,

01:05:51   thank you very much. And our first question comes from Tim and we got this from a bunch of people,

01:05:55   which is why I'm including it. Now that Apple's built a stage at Apple Park,

01:05:59   what is the likelihood that there will be a WWDC event inside the campus? And so Apple built this

01:06:06   stage. It seems like it's a permanent thing, but I don't know that because they had basically

01:06:13   the combination event, it seemed like, of an appreciation day for Apple employees. The

01:06:18   official opening of the Apple Park campus itself and also a celebration tribute for Steve Jobs,

01:06:25   where they had Lady Gaga perform last week, which looked like to be like quite an event.

01:06:30   And the pictures are incredible because they built this six color Apple rainbow

01:06:34   stage, which looked really amazing. So do you think that this will be purposed for any WWDC event?

01:06:40   I don't. I think it's a temporary thing and they'll take it down and then that'll be it.

01:06:45   That this was for this event and it shows that Apple can do an all company event at the center

01:06:51   of Apple Park. And that's a nice thing, but I doubt that it's their intent. And I also really

01:06:56   doubt that they have any desire to get the attendees of WWDC inside the ring. It would be

01:07:02   amazing. Let me just say it would be amazing, but logistically and security wise, they have a venue

01:07:13   that they can do in San Jose that they've done the last few years that was fine. My guess is that

01:07:18   that's going to be good enough for them, but wouldn't it be? So I would say this is like a

01:07:23   theme of this episode is it could happen and wouldn't that be amazing, but I can't believe

01:07:30   that it would ever happen. I can't imagine Apple wanting to have to deal with all of those people

01:07:38   in their campus. I just can't imagine them wanting to have to go through that. Where it's just like,

01:07:43   now we have all these people that really care and they're all here. We would prefer nobody to ever

01:07:50   be here and now we brought them all here. It just feels like, why? Why would you do it? You can't

01:07:58   visit. No one can visit ever. So why would you bring everybody in? No, I can't imagine it happening.

01:08:05   I also think that even though that looks like an incredibly well-made and beautifully structured

01:08:09   stage, that it will be gone soon. Like, why would they keep it? They could just build it again if

01:08:14   they need it. Yeah, no, the goal of that campus is to have a park in the center of it, not to have

01:08:20   a stage in the center of it. Wylance asks, do you know if subscribing to a channel through the new

01:08:27   TV app in iOS 12.3, so this is like the channels feature of the new TV app, will give you access

01:08:33   to the same service via the web? For example, if you subscribe to HBO Now via the TV app,

01:08:39   can you then log in online on the Mac where there is yet no TV app like on the HBO website

01:08:45   and watch the content? Do you know this? It is up in the air here, so I think this is something

01:08:54   Apple's rolling out slowly. Pretty sure you can't use it on the Mac right now, right? Because there's

01:09:00   no TV app on the Mac yet. There will be, but it's not here yet. There will be, and I saw something

01:09:06   go by where somebody suggested that this is something that HBO is going to connect, but it's

01:09:14   really kind of up for everybody to get their story straight. I will say that I subscribed to CBS All

01:09:20   Access this year for Start of Discovery through Amazon Prime Channels, and for a while I could

01:09:27   log into the CBS website or use the CBS app, and then I couldn't anymore, and it started to act

01:09:32   like I wasn't a subscriber anymore, and I had only used the Amazon app after that. And I think, I

01:09:42   feel like this is where we are right now is it's all kind of fractured. So the way you should be

01:09:46   able to do it is if I sign up for HBO Now through Apple, I should be able to also log into HBO Now

01:09:54   on an app, on a device, or on the web, right? Like, I should be able to do that. I think that

01:09:59   maybe requires a level of connection that doesn't exist yet. If it's a policy decision, it's a bad

01:10:04   policy decision, but I don't think that's what's going on here. I think it's a technical challenge,

01:10:09   and I hope it all gets resolved because ultimately if I buy HBO Now, I should get it wherever I want,

01:10:16   and if I buy it through Apple, I should not only be able to play it on limited Apple devices. That's

01:10:23   not a good experience for anybody, customers of HBO and customers of Apple. So basically, I think

01:10:30   probably the rule of thumb right now is the only thing that you can expect is that you'll be able

01:10:35   to watch any of this type of content wherever you can get to the service you originally purchased

01:10:41   it from. It is not clear to believe that just because you're a HBO Now customer somewhere,

01:10:47   that you can be a HBO Now customer everywhere, even though you should, but you shouldn't assume

01:10:50   that because it's not as simple as that. Robbie says, "I'm looking to get into the

01:10:56   MacBook ecosystem for college in the fall. Should I get the 2018 MacBook Pro 13-inch

01:11:02   because of portability?" That's just a thing for Robbie. "With a 1TB SSD so I can kind of

01:11:07   learn everything about the operating system, or shall I wait for the 2019 MacBook releases?"

01:11:14   So I think what Robbie is saying is like, "I need it for the fall. I want to get it now."

01:11:19   I get you, Robbie. I can tell Robbie wants to buy the first MacBook. Or should they wait to see

01:11:26   what might come later this year kind of around that time period? What do you think?

01:11:31   I think you got to wait. I mean, the rumor is that it's a larger laptop that we might see

01:11:35   sooner, not the smaller one. But I, given everything going on with the Apple laptop line

01:11:44   and the feeling that it may be about to turn over, I would wait if at all possible. I'm not sure

01:11:50   you're going to get what you want by the fall, though, but you might have a better idea of where

01:11:58   it's going if you wait. So, you know, I have bought two MacBook Airs in the last six months,

01:12:05   and so I'm not one of those people who feels like you just can't buy an Apple laptop. We have three

01:12:10   of those keyboards in this house, and we have not had any problems with them yet. Maybe we're just

01:12:15   lucky. I don't know. But I know that a lot of people have had problems with them, so it makes

01:12:20   me hesitate. But I think if you want a small laptop portability factor, right, by the fall,

01:12:30   when you start college, it may be a tough one. You may end up with this, you know, existing

01:12:39   generation if you do that. But I would wait for now. I would wait to see not only what is happening

01:12:44   at WWDC, but really what happens over the summer and what the rumors are. Put it off if you can.

01:12:48   Matt Walter Yeah, put it off if you can. I agree with that

01:12:50   completely. Phil asks, "We hear a lot about TV in the US and Upgrade and all the new streaming

01:12:55   platforms, but how does Myke feel about TV in the UK? We already have a bunch of apps like the BBC

01:13:00   iPlayer, ITV Hub, All 4, SkyGo, Now TV, and many more." I have a complicated set of feelings

01:13:09   about TV in the UK. We have had streaming platforms for like five to ten years. Like,

01:13:19   iPlayer has been around forever. It feels so normal that it exists that I don't even really

01:13:24   think of it in the same way that I think about something like Netflix or Amazon Prime, because

01:13:30   it's like, well, of course iPlayer. Like, iPlayer has been around forever. My main thing is that I

01:13:35   rarely want to watch a lot on British television. I tend to watch the stuff that everybody's watching

01:13:41   on Netflix or whatever, right? Like, there will be a show every now and then that grabs my attention.

01:13:47   Like, we've been watching, actually funnily enough, in the new Apple TV app, it was recommending

01:13:55   content to me from Channel 4, by their All 4 application. It was kind of funny because

01:14:02   I opened up the new TV app and I was complaining about the way that the layout is. I don't like the

01:14:08   tabbed layout where it has like three or four tabs in your libraries right at the very end,

01:14:13   which frustrates me because that's the content that I've already bought, but I have to go through

01:14:18   two stores to get to it now, right? And I was complaining about this while at the same time

01:14:24   they were showing me content from Channel 4 and I saw that there was a new season of Bake Off!

01:14:28   The Professionals, which is British Bake Off! but for like professional pastry chefs. It's amazing,

01:14:36   by the way. I don't know if you can get it in America yet, but look out for it.

01:14:41   I'm sure we will.

01:14:42   It is unbelievable. The first season was out last year, now onto the second season now,

01:14:47   and we just rewatched the first season and we're starting the second season. It's incredible. But

01:14:52   it was kind of funny that like I was complaining but then found a show, so like I'm like, "All

01:14:57   right, maybe it's not as bad as I thought." But the kind of overall these platforms in the UK,

01:15:03   they're all free. So BBC and ITV and Channel 4, they're free and they come with some drawbacks.

01:15:09   Like everything is on limited time, right? You only have a limited time to watch everything.

01:15:13   And currently in the UK, there kind of isn't a way, I've complained about this before,

01:15:16   there isn't a way to then get that content afterwards very easily because there's no

01:15:21   service you can pay for to get old content for a lot of these channels.

01:15:25   And except for the BBC, where they're free, they have lots of ads, lots of ads,

01:15:30   lots of ad breaks for the stuff. And I would like to be able to pay for some of that stuff,

01:15:34   but it's not as simple as that right now. But it feels like the older networks are now like

01:15:40   moving into that, right? Like they've seen now that when they started it, everything was free

01:15:44   and ad supported because there was no model. But now all of the American networks are like,

01:15:48   "We're going to create these platforms and you're going to pay for them." So now some of the UK

01:15:52   networks are moving into that, right? We spoke about BrickBox a while ago. We also do subscribe

01:15:57   to Now TV. This is basically Sky's over the top service. This is how we get HBO content.

01:16:04   Because we can't get HBO Now or HBO Go here, which is wild. And it's because of the deal that Sky has

01:16:12   with them. So like we just watched Veep. Adina has been watching Game of Thrones. And we do that

01:16:18   through Now TV. But Now TV's apps. Oh my God, they are the worst. I've never seen apps so bad.

01:16:24   Like when? This is an example of this, right? You're watching a TV show. You've searched for

01:16:32   Veep. You've selected Veep. You play the show. When the show ends, it just goes black, the screen.

01:16:39   Nothing happens. You press the menu button and it takes you back to the actual home screen of

01:16:44   the application. It doesn't take you back to the previous view. You then have to research for the

01:16:50   show you're watching again. And it will show you season one. You then have to scroll through

01:16:55   every season and then pick the next episode. I've never seen an app like on any like any TVOS app be

01:17:03   this bad for this long. It's like they just they made it once and never bothered with it. But

01:17:07   that is, I think, a general kind of rule of thumb for me with the way a lot of this stuff is in the

01:17:12   UK. A lot of it feels quite old now because it's been around for a while. But as I say,

01:17:18   I tend to watch not a lot of British television. So that's why I don't talk about it too much,

01:17:23   because I am typically more interested in the stuff that comes from the American companies.

01:17:27   USA, USA. Indeed. And Austin asks what I consider to be just a real tale of woe kind of

01:17:35   closing out a thread here. Austin wants to know, how do you get Bluetac out of your AirPods case

01:17:41   hinge? Oh, no. That was last week's advice was to use Bluetac on your AirPods. So if anybody knows

01:17:48   how to get Bluetac out, this feels like, are you familiar with the story of like the lady who

01:17:53   swallowed the fly? Swallowed a fly. Yeah. So how do you get dirt out? You use Bluetac. How do you

01:17:59   get Bluetac out? Maybe we'll find out next week. Maybe you just rub some dirt in there. Rub some

01:18:03   dirt in and then you get more Bluetac out. But good luck to you, Austin. Maybe like a... My answer

01:18:09   is don't put it in there. Yeah. I've never used, as we learned last week, I've never actually used

01:18:15   Bluetac on my AirPods. So I don't know. Neither have I. And that's probably because I figured I

01:18:20   would probably do something terrible with it. And I will just live with the dirty gross AirPods case

01:18:24   that I own. Perhaps she'll die. Next week is the draft. Get excited, everyone. I'm excited. WWDC

01:18:32   draft time. If you want to find show notes for this week, go to relay.fm/upgrade/246.

01:18:38   Thanks to Burrow, Luna Display and Squarespace for their support of this show. If you want to find

01:18:43   Jason on the line, he's at sixcolors.com and go to the incomparable.com as well. He's @jsnell on

01:18:50   Twitter, J-S-N-E-L-L-L. I am i-Myke, I-M-Y-K-E. We'll be back next time. Thanks so much for

01:18:57   listening. Until then, say goodbye, Jason Snow. Two, four, six, eight. Who do we appreciate?

01:19:03   Upgradients, upgradients, go upgradients! It was episode 246. I had to do it. Oh, okay. Thank you.