0:00:00[Music]
0:00:08From Relay FM, this is Upgrade Episode 238, and today's show is brought to you by Text Expander from Smile,
0:00:16Luna Display, Bombass, and Simple Contact. My name is Myke Hurley, and I am joined by Mr. Jason Snell. Hi, Jason Snell.
0:00:24Hello, Mr. Myke Hurley.
0:00:26Big show today.
0:00:27Big show, Apple Event. You know, it doesn't get any bigger.
0:00:31It doesn't get... Well, the September event is a little bit bigger, but this one has a lot of information which we're gonna do our best.
0:00:37I mean, the sort of genre of the type of show that it is doesn't get any bigger, but yeah, you're right, you're right.
0:00:41We're gonna do our very best to break down the information today, but it must start...
0:00:46We don't even have time for Snell Talk this week because we must start with our draft results. Draft results.
0:00:52Yes.
0:00:53They get rid of Snell Talk in a week like this.
0:00:55Okay.
0:00:55So in case you didn't hear on our last episode, which by the way, I was really proud of the way our last episode came out,
0:01:02and I hope that we have some new upgrade-ians out there in the audience who may have come from last week's episode.
0:01:07That'd be great.
0:01:08But if you did miss it, then we did a draft in which we tried to pick what we thought was gonna happen during the event.
0:01:15And I've scored it, you have scored it. I think it's pretty clear-cut that you took this one.
0:01:20Yeah.
0:01:21But I still want to go through it anyway.
0:01:25Mm-hmm.
0:01:26So the video streaming service, neither of us got the name. You thought Apple TV, I thought Apple Video. You were close.
0:01:33Yeah, I left this unscored because I thought that if it was a very, very, very close thing, I would make an argument that, you know,
0:01:41really I just missed a bit of punctuation. But I don't need the point, so fine.
0:01:47What would a services bundle be called? Let's just skip that one for the moment.
0:01:51I wonder.
0:01:51[laughter]
0:01:52Imagine.
0:01:53I'm still wondering.
0:01:54Then you pick the four following things. News launches by the end of April. You get a point.
0:02:00Apple will offer subscriptions to other video services. You get a point. Video game service unveiled. You get a point.
0:02:06Video service costs more than $10 a month. Again, we'll come back to that in a minute because we don't know.
0:02:11We don't know.
0:02:11And then we move over to mine. Services bundle unveiled. Womp womp.
0:02:15Apple to have video content that they did not make available for free to subscribers. Again, we just don't know.
0:02:21But we didn't get that information today. Video service launches in the US only. That was not true.
0:02:27And Apple credit card. I got that point.
0:02:30Yay!
0:02:31Then I think, personally, we should give a round of applause to each other for the full point-scoring celebrity round.
0:02:39Yeah, we got all the celebrities right.
0:02:41All the great celebrities. Oprah, Spielberg, Sara Barry Alice, and Reese the Littlest Spoon, J.J. Abrams,
0:02:47Sesame Workshop. That is a full point-scoring round.
0:02:51I realize now that I should have made you choose a Muppet, but I didn't.
0:02:55I would have gone with Big Bird anyway because it's like the only real one that I know.
0:02:58Fine, fine, yes. But you get that. You get that. You know, we, it turns out we could have done more rounds of that
0:03:02because there were lots of celebrities on stage, but we got, we got it. We got all of them.
0:03:07I would say, though, we applied the same thinking to the trailers round and that ended up also doing a pretty decent job.
0:03:13So for you, you definitely got C. We know that much because we could see Jason Momoa.
0:03:19Um, because they showed like a little video package.
0:03:21I'm assuming the one of the more sci-fi series was the space stuff that we saw.
0:03:26Not only the moon landing, but there was like a guy looking at a newspaper that said that, that the Russians landed on the moon,
0:03:32which is, that's the premise of that show is that the space race continues.
0:03:35Um, and there was a quick, uh, Snoopy thing in the sizzle reel too.
0:03:40Yeah, that was like, that was like an image. I mean, I was kind of like willing to get that one, but it was, it was less than,
0:03:45because they had a bunch of photos.
0:03:47Yeah, I almost suggested that we not score the trailer round because none of these individual pieces of content got it their own trailer.
0:03:55They were just in the sizzle reel, but we could also score it. I don't think it changes the overall outcome.
0:03:59We did, we did say that we'd, but anyway, so I know that the Morning Show drama was in there.
0:04:03And again, unfortunately, Little America could have been featured, but it just couldn't be identified.
0:04:07I am certain that Little America is in there. There is a picture of a girl wearing a hijab riding her bike down the street.
0:04:14I am, I cannot imagine that that is not Little America.
0:04:18It could have been that movie they signed at Sundance, but anyway.
0:04:21Could be, but I just, I would, I would give you that one. And there's no Oprah content because, uh, there isn't any.
0:04:25Yeah, then we're gonna go with 9-6 for the score.
0:04:29Uh, the tiebreaker question, um, didn't long leave a white, no, I thought they were black shoes. They look black to me.
0:04:35Well, they might have been. We might need closer, um, analysis from our shoe correspondent.
0:04:40But it was, it was a dark gray or black sneaker with a big white sole all the way around.
0:04:48And I picked white, but you, you know, and you picked dark gray. So I think I would probably go with you in terms of the tiebreaker.
0:04:55Although it's as close to a tie as you could possibly get on that, but it doesn't matter because I won.
0:05:00You did win.
0:05:00So in the end, I got this one.
0:05:02One of those classic situations in the draft for me where I bet heavy on a thing that we all thought was going to happen, but just didn't come true.
0:05:10Mm-hmm.
0:05:11So 9-6 wasn't too bad. I thought for a while it was going to be real bad, but then the celebrity round, uh, paid off for me. So I've got some points in there.
0:05:20So Bravo, Jason, you pick up the first win of the year.
0:05:23Excellent. Excellent. I'm happy about it.
0:05:26Should we just call it right there? This is the most important thing of the episode. Oh, no, it isn't. We're actually going to go...
0:05:30Not even close.
0:05:31...straight into talking about this stuff. Um, I've, I've actually ordered this stuff, I think, in a non-chronological order because I think it would be more interesting to talk about this way.
0:05:42Um, and I want to start with the Apple TV.
0:05:45Okay.
0:05:46The Apple TV app has been completely redesigned, uh, is what they said. It looks very different. There's definitely some different focus in different areas.
0:05:55Um, a lot of the features that we're used to are still there. You know, they kind of pitched them as if they were new, but they weren't. So, like, iTunes content's there.
0:06:03Single sign-on content is there, and content from other streaming providers is there.
0:06:07Uh, but were you surprised about the amount of focus the TV app itself got, including, clearly, some overhaul?
0:06:15I'm not. Um, this is a big part of the strategy here, right? If they're going to roll out a new service and these new channels, which we've been saying are, like, we'll call them channels because they're like Amazon Prime channels. They literally are calling them channels.
0:06:30Yeah, Apple TV channels. We'll get to that.
0:06:32There you go. That's what it is, because they're rebuilding the cable bundle inside the TV app, basically. Um, I'm not surprised because you have, there's work to be done, right? The TV app isn't great.
0:06:41And let's not forget, the TV app comes from the era where the future of TV was apps. And as we learned today, the future of TV is channels inside the Apple TV app, which is a very different take on this.
0:06:53And so while it's going to continue to have, like, external apps show data inside the TV app, like, like some apps do now, like Hulu and Amazon, it's also going to have this scenario where they will sell you a service and it shows up inside the app kind of natively as if it's part of Apple's own stuff.
0:07:16And then they're also rolling in more of the iTunes content because they do, and this has been clear unofficially for the last year or two at least, that this is, the TV app is this big bag that holds all video content for Apple going forward.
0:07:31And so, yeah, they got to redesign it because, and it looked good. But I tried to say when I was live tweeting this, I tried to say it looks good in the demo because of course it does.
0:07:43And it looks like they've addressed some of the issues. At the same time, I did get the sense at one point, like, they were scrolling endlessly down a page.
0:07:51And I thought, is that going to be any good?
0:07:53It's like, oh, look, you've just stumbled upon a new way to have the fundamental issue of the TV app, which is just infinite scrolling, which is not nice to use on that remote.
0:08:02I mean, Netflix does this too. The amount of content in any of these things that's cataloging all the video services is difficult.
0:08:09But I think Apple's vision here is that basically if you're on, any show but Netflix is going to all roll kind of into this TV app, whether it's from Apple or from one of these other providers.
0:08:20And, you know, that's what they're going with. But the truth will be when we actually try to use it because it could be a mess depending on what's in there and what's not.
0:08:28And some of that has to do, like, they were demoing an ideal situation where I think the woman who was doing the demo said something about like, oh, I'm on Charter Cable.
0:08:37So I have this thing. It's like, well, yes, that's a best case scenario while I'm on Xfinity personally.
0:08:42And although they've got a really great iOS app, they won't let it on Apple TV because apparently that's a deal they want to extract something from Apple in order to do.
0:08:51I don't even know. And so, you know, I don't have the best case scenario and lots of people won't have the best case scenario.
0:08:58So we'll have to see.
0:08:59I actually think you've stumbled upon what I actually think that the introduction of Apple TV channels was the weakest part of this presentation.
0:09:07Because it's just what Amazon's doing is what it appears to be.
0:09:13In that you can pay Apple to provide you with content from other providers, content like companies like HBO, CBS, All Access and Showtime.
0:09:22Starz is in there as well. But that's about as good as the lineup gets.
0:09:26The list is not very deep. It's not that massively impressive, in my opinion.
0:09:31They were talking about the ability to offer this stuff outside of the US at some point, but they didn't really give any information on what that's going to look like.
0:09:38Like what kind of channels am I going to get?
0:09:40It's probably not going to be an incredible list, probably similar to what Amazon has.
0:09:45But a lot of the talk again, and this is the thing that me and you've been talking about for a while, where a lot of the reporting on the rumors of this was like the Apple's about to do this amazing thing here.
0:09:55But we have been talking, as many listeners of this show will know, for upstream over months and months in the past.
0:10:02Apple probably wasn't going to do anything that wild here, and they kind of didn't.
0:10:06Like it kind of met what we thought, which was they're not going to have, at least they're not showing right now, this heavily discount.
0:10:15We're not seeing any of that. We're not seeing some way to put your own package together.
0:10:19It's just you pick a channel, you pay for a channel, and that's about it.
0:10:22It's Amazon channels, but within Apple's interface instead, which is not the worst thing in the world.
0:10:27I think the big difference in this is that Apple, because they did offer that API, what, two years ago for the TV app, where they wanted, back when the future of TV was apps,
0:10:40they built this API so that if you've got an app, you can share your watch data with Apple, and it'll become visible in the TV app.
0:10:46And then it will basically go out to that app if it needs to jump to the episode or start playing or whatever.
0:10:54And what that gets Apple is, as they showed quite prominently in a lot of the slides, things like Amazon Prime Video show up in the TV app, even though Prime Video is not a channel inside Apple.
0:11:07Can you imagine? It's like channels within channels within channels.
0:11:10You can't do it.
0:11:11But it doesn't matter if you've got stuff in Prime Video because they're using the API and they are syncing with the TV API on Apple's platforms.
0:11:21Amazon shows show up in the TV app.
0:11:24So that's weird in the sense that there are going to be two ways you could see something in the TV app, from an external app or not.
0:11:30But I think the bigger issue is that it also means Netflix has opted entirely out, and that exacerbates that situation even more.
0:11:43Because now there's even more content in, and Netflix is really out because it's still all the way out.
0:11:48It's not tied in.
0:11:49And you can see why they wouldn't want to be, right?
0:11:50Because they would be, all of their shows would be mixed in with everybody else's shows, and the recommendation engine would be for all sorts of different shows on any of the networks you subscribe to.
0:11:59And Netflix doesn't want that.
0:12:00Netflix wants to be the only place you ever think of going for video.
0:12:04But I think that the Netflix problem, it exacerbates the issue that I find, which is if you're used to going away from the TV app for some of your content, would you not just keep going out of the TV app for all of your content?
0:12:18Right?
0:12:18Like that's kind of been my experience.
0:12:20So like if I look at the stuff that I watch, right?
0:12:22So a lot of Netflix, a lot of Amazon Prime and a lot of YouTube.
0:12:27I never use the TV app for Prime because I'm using, you know, like I never think to do that.
0:12:33Yeah, I would say my experience with Prime channels tells me that this is a good idea.
0:12:39Because Prime channels is really convenient because it's all in one, it's in the Prime app.
0:12:45So doing Apple TV channels similarly, if I've got the, you know, a whole bunch of stuff amalgamated together in one place so that I know I only need to check.
0:12:55In this scenario, basically, I only need to check the TV app and Netflix.
0:13:00And the rest of them I don't need to worry about.
0:13:01I don't need to switch to other apps because the TV app and Netflix are the only two that really contain pretty much everything that I've got.
0:13:08That's the advantage.
0:13:09Well, tell me then about the channels.
0:13:11Do you think that there is enough there to be compelling?
0:13:14Well, I mean, it's just reselling channels.
0:13:16I just don't think that anything is going to rise or fall based on the partnerships.
0:13:20I suspect they have more or less, I mean, by launch time, will they have more or less the same partnerships that Amazon has?
0:13:25Yeah, I imagine so.
0:13:27I imagine they will resell everything that isn't either a giant of streaming or is a direct competition to Apple.
0:13:39And if I were, again, if I were Netflix, I'd probably do exactly what Netflix is doing.
0:13:44But if I'm BritBox or CBS All Access, I would be like, you know, yeah, integrate me, Apple, integrate me fully into your interface where my stuff is in there along with your other stuff.
0:13:58And I'm just, you know, I'm part of the big package of all that content because it's more, you know, it's more subscribers, it's more money, it's easier, and it's providing access to those things.
0:14:09And the channel concept is nice in that way.
0:14:11So I imagine they'll get all of the partners that Amazon gets because those are the kinds of partners who benefit from that business model.
0:14:20And then what they won't get is the ones like, you know, really like Netflix, where it just doesn't work.
0:14:25Probably Disney, right?
0:14:26I'm kind of up in the air about Disney.
0:14:29I'm not sure about Disney, right?
0:14:31Like, I feel like I go backwards and forwards on it because they don't have the competitive advantage that some of the other companies need, right?
0:14:40Like, they don't need to compete in the same way.
0:14:42I'm really intrigued about it.
0:14:43- They're not Netflix.
0:14:44I mean, they're not Netflix, though, right?
0:14:45They're competing with other people.
0:14:47And the argument would be, I think with Disney, it comes completely down to what the terms of the arrangement are, you know, what percentage does Apple take and all of that.
0:14:54Because the great advantage of Disney+ being in Apple TV and on Prime Video is, you know, it's a huge potential audience and these big stores basically are selling your product rather than making everybody go on the outside.
0:15:14The disadvantage is now you're mixing with other stuff and you got to do some revenue sharing and that's not so great.
0:15:20So the question is, you know, what are your designs?
0:15:23Are your designs to be Netflix or not?
0:15:26If you're Disney, think about where you want to be in five years and then think, well, does that Apple deal make sense with where I want to be in five years?
0:15:36And maybe it does.
0:15:37I mean, I'm kind of the opinion that unless you are Netflix, these channel deals are good because it's another place for you to sell your stuff.
0:15:47And the more you're in front of people, the better.
0:15:50Like I use CBS All Access more in Prime than I did when it was its own app.
0:15:57Because I was only purposefully going there for Star Trek before.
0:16:03And this year I see it in my Prime Video with a bunch of other stuff when I'm thinking, oh, I'm going to watch a show, what do I have?
0:16:09And then all the CBS stuff is just integrated in there.
0:16:12And that's really good.
0:16:13So if you can imagine, you talk about that on the Apple TV.
0:16:16Like you throw in CBS, you throw in BritBox, you throw in Showtime, HBO.
0:16:23And yes, you are rebuilding the cable bundle.
0:16:25But you've got the convenience of the fact that all of that content is just kind of there and you can find it and you can see it.
0:16:32And you don't have to worry about where it's coming from.
0:16:35Which I think from a consumer standpoint is the ideal, which is not to worry about what channel a show is on.
0:16:41Just find the show and watch it.
0:16:45So I don't know.
0:16:46I think it's not the ultimate solution, but I think it's good.
0:16:52And I think it's good that Apple is doing it because Amazon is doing it and I think it's a good experience.
0:16:56So I think it's good for Apple to replicate it.
0:16:58Yeah.
0:16:59So we don't have pricing.
0:17:01No.
0:17:02Well, this stuff's all going to be priced the way it's priced on Amazon.
0:17:05I mean, I really think like if you were wondering how Apple TV channels is going to work, just look at Amazon Prime channels.
0:17:10It is the same, literally the same product.
0:17:14So the new TV app is coming in May.
0:17:17I'm assuming that Apple TV channels comes in May as well.
0:17:20Yeah, I assume so.
0:17:23Yeah.
0:17:23That they'll start selling those within the Apple TV app then.
0:17:28Yeah, that sort of makes sense.
0:17:30Crazy speculation time.
0:17:31It's our favorite segment here on Upgrade.
0:17:33Crazy speculation time.
0:17:35So a lot of the advertising copy on Apple's website is referencing to the TV app as the new home for iTunes content.
0:17:43And it's calling it like your movies and your TV shows.
0:17:46It's like the new home for that.
0:17:48And I'm wondering, Jason, are we maybe seeing the breakup of iTunes?
0:17:52And one of the reasons I will say this, that the TV app is coming to the Mac and they say in the fall, Marsapan, which I absolutely love.
0:18:02Oh, in the fall for no reason it will appear on the Mac.
0:18:07So I'm wondering, you know, maybe we have thought of the potential that what it will now take for iTunes to go away is for Apple Music to be its own app built on Marsapan.
0:18:20Now Apple TV being its own Apple Marsapan.
0:18:23That could be it, right?
0:18:24And that iTunes as we know it becomes just the store like we have it on iOS.
0:18:29It's just the name for the store.
0:18:32Well, I think on the Mac the more likely scenario is that iTunes, the app will remain like a QuickTime player for a while in this weird limbo where you can download it or it's there because there's stuff that it does that other apps don't do.
0:18:44And it's actually a really nice escape valve for Apple because they don't need to build something that mirrors all the features of iTunes.
0:18:50They can just build the things that they want and say, well, if you really want to manage an iOS device, just use iTunes.
0:18:57Fine. We don't care.
0:18:59But yes, I think it's a strong implication.
0:19:01It's not impossible that they might try to make it run on previous OS versions too.
0:19:08I don't know quite whether there's some Marsapan stuff that they're going to put in the next version of macOS that they could also kind of package together and do in a Mojave update.
0:19:20Probably not.
0:19:21But I'm going to leave open the possibility of that just because the thing that does strike me as a little bit weird is if they say it's coming to the Mac in the fall.
0:19:27But the only way you can get it is by updating to the new version of macOS.
0:19:31But that may be it because it does feel very much like they're just going to take the TV app in Marsapan and run it on the Mac in the fall.
0:19:38I can't think of any other reason why they'd wait for the fall for it.
0:19:42Right.
0:19:43That is surely got to be to do with something that is released in September, i.e. the next version of macOS.
0:19:47The strong implication is that, yeah.
0:19:50Especially because between now and then, more TVs.
0:19:54So we'd previously heard Samsung was going to be getting the TV app, right?
0:19:57That was clearly like Samsung got an exclusivity period because LG, Vizio and Sony are all getting it.
0:20:03They were all announced with HomeKit support, which is coming out with 12.2 today.
0:20:10But they're also going to get the TV app.
0:20:12And as we have again been talking about over the last few weeks, Roku and Fire TV will be getting the Apple TV app.
0:20:21Yeah, this is big.
0:20:23That's the one that we predicted it.
0:20:25There was a rumor about Roku.
0:20:26I don't think I've heard a rumor about Amazon.
0:20:29But the moment that they said we're going to be on those smart TVs, then I made a couple assumptions.
0:20:38And we talked about it on this show.
0:20:39One is when they said iTunes was going to be on Samsung.
0:20:42I was like, well, that'll be the TV.
0:20:44Yeah, we know what that means.
0:20:45We knew the iTunes app was never going to actually exist on this TV.
0:20:49And a bunch of people said, no, it's just going to be AirPlay.
0:20:52And I was like, no, I don't think so.
0:20:54And then today you heard them say, oh, yeah, the TV app is going to be on the Samsung TVs soon.
0:20:59Because this is the Trojan horse.
0:21:01They were really going to launch with the TV app and not just an Apple Music app or something.
0:21:07And it's going to come to these other TV providers.
0:21:10And I was like, oh, my TV provider isn't on the list.
0:21:14But that's OK, because my TV is a Roku TV.
0:21:15And it was on the next slide, which is the Roku and Amazon Fire TV.
0:21:20Which means, yes, if you're somebody who's intrigued by the TV content that Apple is going to be providing in the fall,
0:21:26you'll be able to get it on an HDTV in your house for under $50.
0:21:31The one I bought, the Roku I bought for my mom does $1080.
0:21:35And it was $29.
0:21:37And I think there's $49.
0:21:38You can get a 4K of the Roku or the Amazon or both.
0:21:42Like, if all you've ever been thinking about are Apple TVs, whoo, well, these other ones are a lot cheaper.
0:21:50The 4K Fire TV stick is $50.
0:21:53Yeah, see?
0:21:54And they do like $30 or $40 for the non-4K one.
0:21:57Yeah, so it's just a done deal.
0:21:59And this is the answer to that question that we thought we knew in January, which is basically,
0:22:03Apple's not investing all this money in all these shows with all these stars
0:22:07in order to sell you an Apple TV.
0:22:09That's not the point.
0:22:10And we have seen it now.
0:22:12The Apple TV will, I think, continue to exist as a product,
0:22:16because it is now like the HomePod, a kind of a premium product.
0:22:20But it's not also a barrier in order to get you to qualify to use a portion of Apple's ecosystem.
0:22:30That's not what it's for.
0:22:31They may have found a new life for the old Apple TV with Apple Arcade,
0:22:35which we'll talk about later on in the show.
0:22:37But they've referenced Apple TV when talking about where these games are going to show up.
0:22:42That's true.
0:22:43That's true.
0:22:43That is like they're actually finally maybe trying to make it more of a gaming box.
0:22:47Yeah, every two years or so, we hear about Apple trying to make the Apple TV do games.
0:22:52So here we are.
0:22:53The old Apple TV is now called the Apple TV HD.
0:22:57Oh, okay.
0:22:59Because the Apple TV is now a product that exists, right?
0:23:03Because it's now available outside of the Apple TV.
0:23:06So they've had to change the name of the old Apple TV to Apple TV HD,
0:23:11because Apple TV, the app, now is like it has top level navigation on the TV page on Apple's website.
0:23:17So it's Apple TV HD and then Apple TV 4K.
0:23:20Yes.
0:23:21And then Apple TV Plus is the product and Apple TV is the app.
0:23:27Yes, that can exist in other places.
0:23:29Yep.
0:23:29Well, I missed the punctuation, but I do feel like this had to be the name of it, right?
0:23:34It's just so straightforward.
0:23:35It's Apple TV.
0:23:36That's what it is.
0:23:37So it's Apple TV.
0:23:37Apple TV is the app, including the channels inside the app.
0:23:41And then TV Plus is the Apple service that is ladled on top,
0:23:44which is nicely parallel with the news service that they announced today too.
0:23:51Yeah.
0:23:51Before we get into Apple TV Plus,
0:23:53is there anything more you wanted to talk about with the TV app?
0:23:56You know, I want to try it.
0:23:58And I dread that because, again, it's all about the details.
0:24:01And it's also unfortunately about some of the partnership stuff.
0:24:05And I think if you've got a cable company that is partnering with Apple on this,
0:24:08you're going to have a better experience.
0:24:09But if your streaming services are either using the TV API or are an Apple TV channel,
0:24:16I think it has the potential to be a pretty decent service.
0:24:20But again, you got to use it, right?
0:24:23Because it could be that you use it and your reaction is, "Oh, no, this is not.
0:24:27This doesn't make sense."
0:24:28And there's just no way to tell from a canned demo.
0:24:32But otherwise, I would say, I think this is what they had to do, right?
0:24:39Like, I think that the Amazon Prime Channels thing is a good idea.
0:24:44If you're a major player and a platform,
0:24:48having the ability to roll these smaller services inside of your ecosystem is a good thing.
0:24:55And I actually think it's a good thing for everybody.
0:24:58I can't speak to the business model between the services that are being resold
0:25:02and the big guys like Apple and Amazon.
0:25:04Maybe it's desperation or maybe it's a good deal for them too.
0:25:07I would like to think it's a good deal for them just because of the promotion
0:25:10they get inside these apps because Apple and Amazon are motivated to sell channels.
0:25:17And for consumers, I think it's actually a great deal because, you know, quite frankly,
0:25:21if I never have to launch the CBS All Access app again,
0:25:27it'll be too soon.
0:25:29It's like, I have loved not having to launch that app or deal with their infrastructure
0:25:34and just deal with Amazon.
0:25:36And Amazon has been rock solid for that.
0:25:38And I love that that service, and when I've had BritBox inside Prime Channels,
0:25:43the same deal, like it's so much nicer to reduce the number of apps
0:25:46that I have to use to find what I want to watch.
0:25:48So I think Apple had to do it, and I think it will ultimately be good for everybody,
0:25:52assuming that they executed right.
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0:27:54Apple TV Plus.
0:27:57Is this why the phones are called Max?
0:27:59Maybe.
0:28:00I think it might be.
0:28:02It reduces some confusion.
0:28:03Right, I feel like it would have been super weird if they would have had like multiple
0:28:07products with plus in the name and some of them are written out P L U S and some of them just
0:28:11have the plus sign.
0:28:12Considering they at least tried to clear up some of the issues of Apple TV, right?
0:28:17Like they don't they don't want too many things named exactly the same anymore.
0:28:21The opening was was really cool.
0:28:24They had like a bunch of like that that we should mention that a really nice kind of
0:28:27opening credit sequence video at the start of the presentation.
0:28:30That was nice, but I did notice something, Jason.
0:28:32I want to see what you think about this when they kind of showed off the Apple TV Plus.
0:28:36They had like this clouds and this little sound played, which sounded like a modified
0:28:40kind of startup sound for like a Mac or something.
0:28:43Do you think this will be Apple's network stinger?
0:28:46I don't know anything about it.
0:28:47I don't know if I even noticed that.
0:28:49So I have no comment on that.
0:28:50I'm going to see if I can try and grab the audio and put it into the show so people can
0:28:54hear it for themselves.
0:28:55But there was like this nice little chime.
0:28:56I was like, oh, I wonder if that's their version of the HBO thing, you know?
0:29:04So they timbrel out Zach van Amburg and Jamie Ehrlich to say, I was pleased about actually
0:29:10because I figured that these should be the people right.
0:29:14They are the TV people.
0:29:15They should be the people that introduced this part of the presentation.
0:29:19Was this a welcome surprise for you?
0:29:20I'm not surprised.
0:29:22I thought that they were the ideal candidates to this because Apple hired them June 2017,
0:29:28by the way.
0:29:29Not quite.
0:29:29It's 21 months ago they hired them.
0:29:31They announced that they hired these guys.
0:29:33So this has been in the works for a very long time.
0:29:37And so for them to be able to push it across the finish line, I think was only appropriate.
0:29:41This is this part of the event is very much this weird hybrid of an Apple event and a
0:29:48television industry, like something like an upfront or a television critic associations
0:29:53tour kind of thing where it's a dog and pony show for networks.
0:29:59And this was kind of that.
0:30:01This was like Apple saying, we can use our power as a company that calls these events
0:30:06to do our own dog and pony show about our new stuff.
0:30:10And these guys have been running it and living it for a year and a half.
0:30:14And so I thought that was, I thought it was only appropriate for them to do it.
0:30:18Now, the way they did it is fascinating because what they didn't do is what we assumed, which
0:30:24was that people would come out and there would be trailers.
0:30:27And instead, what we got is people came out and talked about what the content of their
0:30:32show was and why it was important.
0:30:34And and showed kind of like a, there was like a backdrop and they actually had projectors
0:30:40that were projecting it onto the side.
0:30:42That's how they did that.
0:30:43Theater.
0:30:44Okay.
0:30:45So it was almost like kind of a wraparound thing in the theater itself that up the sides
0:30:51on these little slats of the walls of the interior was from a projection in the back
0:31:00as far as I could tell.
0:31:00But showing like a still.
0:31:03But that was it.
0:31:04And then they talked about it and that was the whole thing.
0:31:08And then we got the brief sizzle reel at the end.
0:31:10And I think partly that was because Apple wanted to show off the people and put the
0:31:16people, you know, who are mostly the stars of these shows at the center.
0:31:20But it is interesting that they that they didn't do anything but a sizzle reel.
0:31:27I have some theories about that.
0:31:28I feel like this isn't coming out until the fall, which was one of the rumors was that
0:31:33it wouldn't the programs wouldn't actually be ready until the fall.
0:31:36And that has proven to be true.
0:31:38They didn't mention a price.
0:31:41We don't have a lot of details about the rollout.
0:31:44And I've seen some disappointment about that.
0:31:45I'm a little disappointed because I always want to know whatever.
0:31:50But I feel like the purpose of this was to was for Apple to explain what this was and
0:31:59give it its branding, explain where it fits and what Apple is doing and show off the people
0:32:05that it and that they value the creative people, right, which is some of these stories that
0:32:09have come out.
0:32:10It's like, oh, what does Apple feel?
0:32:11And this was Apple basically saying and sending a message to the entertainment industry saying,
0:32:15here's what it is.
0:32:16Here's what it's called.
0:32:17We love you.
0:32:19You're storytellers and we think you're the best.
0:32:22The story was starting to get out of control for them for many reasons.
0:32:25One for the rumors and two just because they're continuing to sign more and more content whilst
0:32:30never acknowledging that they were actually doing anything.
0:32:32And the tenor of the industry pieces and some of the larger like Wall Street Journal and
0:32:36New York Times pieces about this has become, well, more negative.
0:32:41But when I read through the line between the lines of them, I kept thinking there's a lot
0:32:45of people in Hollywood who are just frustrated that this is not a this is not a thing that's
0:32:49been announced yet and they want to know more.
0:32:51And that is you can roll your eyes at that.
0:32:55And I certainly did a little bit.
0:32:56But at the same time, those are the people who you have to work with to make these shows.
0:33:00Yeah, you can't completely come in as Apple and do things only your way.
0:33:04Like they have to play ball a little bit with the industry at large.
0:33:08And this is part of that.
0:33:09So this and this so they show their appreciation.
0:33:12They're kind of bending the knee to the greatness of Hollywood storytellers.
0:33:17And it's Zack and Jamie on stage doing that because they're the ones who are making the
0:33:20deals.
0:33:20And it gives them everybody knows what it is now.
0:33:25It's Apple TV Plus.
0:33:26Here are some of the people involved.
0:33:28It's coming this fall.
0:33:29Here's what the interface looks like with the Apple TV shows in it.
0:33:33This is how it's going to work.
0:33:35And yeah, there are details missing.
0:33:38But if I'm a Hollywood person who is frustrated that it's all like I've been working for two
0:33:46years on something that nobody even knows about, you know, maybe you're not Jennifer Aniston.
0:33:51And if you are Hi, Jen.
0:33:52Hi.
0:33:53It was nice to be in the room with you today.
0:33:55If you're not Jennifer Aniston, at least you know the circles in which you're moving the
0:34:00product you're working on.
0:34:01You can tell your friends.
0:34:03Yes, I am working on a thing for that Apple TV Plus thing that launches this fall.
0:34:07It's out the you know, it's it's out in the world now.
0:34:12And and while if you're a an Apple follower and you're frustrated because you were just
0:34:16trying to see what the price was, I hear you.
0:34:19I don't think it was for you.
0:34:21I think this was Apple setting the table.
0:34:22There is a second event coming, which will be the iPhone event when this will all be
0:34:27announced and shut off and they'll talk about pricing and like that's when we'll get our
0:34:30trailers.
0:34:31So OK, so here's the thing.
0:34:32It wouldn't surprise me if they launch this or announce the launch date at the iPhone
0:34:35event.
0:34:36Here's the thing.
0:34:37Now that the sizzle reel is out, now that they've launched, they've unveiled whatever
0:34:42you want to call it, they've announced the name and the stars and some of the names of
0:34:47the shows and all of that.
0:34:48Apple is now free to roll out trailers whenever the heck they want.
0:34:51Yeah.
0:34:51Good point.
0:34:52Good point.
0:34:52So they could drop a Jason Momoa C trailer in May and say, isn't this, you know, everybody
0:35:00get excited about how amazing this is.
0:35:02And in July they could drop a thing with Jennifer Aniston and Reese Witherspoon and Steve Carell
0:35:09and be like, Oh my God, isn't this going to be fun?
0:35:11And they can just keep on promoting that stuff.
0:35:14They don't have to hold it.
0:35:15They could hold it until a little bit closer to air, but they don't have to now.
0:35:18All those rules are out the window because the product is now a real service.
0:35:23Service is now a real thing, whatever it is.
0:35:25It's a service that has been announced instead of being one of these coy, like we're very
0:35:29excited about Oprah and we'll have more to share later.
0:35:33Now it's like, okay, it's called Apple TV+.
0:35:35It exists.
0:35:35It's coming this fall.
0:35:36That opens the door for all sorts of promotion at whatever time Apple wants.
0:35:39You mentioned Jason Momoa.
0:35:44He came out among many stars, came out on stage.
0:35:48He came out with Alfre Woodard and they spoke about See.
0:35:51Now, all we've really known about See is that it was a sci-fi show and it was probably the
0:35:56most expensive TV show ever made.
0:35:57But we found out like we did with many of these shows today, what they actually are.
0:36:04Now I already had read that See was about a post-apocalyptic world where people can't see.
0:36:10I haven't seen that one.
0:36:11But there's, or at least even we, the very most, we had like real top line descriptions
0:36:17for what they are, but the creators were able to talk about it a little bit more.
0:36:20And I thought that this show, I'm excited about the show.
0:36:24I love the idea.
0:36:25I love the premise, right?
0:36:26So the premise is that there was a virus that hit the earth and it killed many people.
0:36:31It left like a few million people left, but all of those people couldn't see anymore.
0:36:35So you're like, oh, that's the show is about them dealing with it.
0:36:37But then they kind of twist it a bit where it's like many generations later, the world
0:36:42is now kind of just adapted to the fact that people can't see.
0:36:45The idea of sight is almost feels like a fable.
0:36:47The show begins and like, I think that that is really interesting sounding.
0:36:52Yeah.
0:36:53It's and the funny thing about TV is this is why you have to do a lot of different shows
0:36:56is that different shows are going to appeal to different people.
0:37:00You know, I'm sure you already have understood that Stephen Hackett and I will both be right
0:37:07there for that Ron Moore.
0:37:08Oh, what's it called?
0:37:10I wrote it down.
0:37:11Anyway, it's the it's the space race one, right?
0:37:13Because it's like, oh, space race, alternate history, space race.
0:37:17It's great.
0:37:17Sounds great to me too, though.
0:37:19Like I will say that, like, especially everything they showed today, I want to watch all that.
0:37:23For All Mankind, by the way, is the name of it.
0:37:25For All Mankind.
0:37:25Okay.
0:37:26But like all of the shows that they that they put on stage today, I'm like, yeah, I would
0:37:30try all of those.
0:37:31Like the pitches for those shows sound exciting to me.
0:37:34And some of them will be good and some of them will be bad.
0:37:36Anthology shows, I have this theory, which is that anthology shows were big in the like
0:37:41the 50s and 60s, but have decreased in popularity as time went by.
0:37:46They basically died on network.
0:37:47And the truth is that Black Mirror made anthology series hot again.
0:37:54Like if I were if I were Steven Spielberg, I would send many notes of thanks to Charlie
0:38:01Brooker for doing Black Mirror because everybody saw Black Mirror and was like, ooh, anthology
0:38:06series, tell me more.
0:38:07And my theory is that most people don't want to watch anthology series.
0:38:11People like watching like shows with with the same actors and the same characters every
0:38:16week.
0:38:17And although with streaming, it's a little different.
0:38:19It's like a bunch of mini movies kind of thing.
0:38:21And Black Mirror has been successful.
0:38:22But there are two of these Apple shows are anthology series, the Kumail Nanjiani Emily
0:38:28Gordon show A Little America.
0:38:31And of course, Amazing Stories with Mr. Spielberg, who doesn't want Netflix to win Oscars.
0:38:36But this is TV, man.
0:38:37This is Apple TV.
0:38:38TV is fine.
0:38:39It's not it's not getting any Oscars.
0:38:41It's fine.
0:38:42It's fine.
0:38:42It can get all the Golden Globes at once or like all the Emmys.
0:38:46Go for it.
0:38:47Yeah, right.
0:38:47So anyway, I think that's funny.
0:38:49And I think that that is something I'm going to watch because I'm skeptical about the appetite
0:38:55for anthology series.
0:38:57And if you look, let's see, the replacement for Black Mirror when it moved networks was
0:39:03the Philip K. Dick's Electric Dreams series that got canceled.
0:39:07Twilight Zone on CBS All Access is Jordan Peele.
0:39:09And that'll be great, except nobody will watch it because this is my prediction is nobody
0:39:13watches anthology shows.
0:39:15And Black Mirror has sold has made a lot of money for a lot of people to make anthology
0:39:18shows that nobody will watch and will eventually fall off the network.
0:39:21Doesn't mean they are not good.
0:39:22And the Apple ones may be good, too.
0:39:25But I feel like you already kind of gave a hint earlier, but being in the room of all
0:39:30those celebrities, were there any like specific that stood out to you as you were just excited
0:39:34to be in the same room as them?
0:39:35Well, I mean, they're all down low in the in the good seats, right?
0:39:40Where the pretty people are.
0:39:41And then the press is up up high and from far away, you know, it's like, is that Tim Robbins?
0:39:46I think it is Tim Robbins talking to Eddie Q.
0:39:48I don't know.
0:39:49Maybe, you know?
0:39:52Yeah.
0:39:52I so it's cool to see people I've seen so many famous people at in theaters at Apple
0:39:58events that it's a it's a ridiculous list.
0:40:01And I got a lot more of them.
0:40:02You know, I don't think I've ever been in a room with JJ Abrams.
0:40:05He did a WWDC thing that I didn't go to.
0:40:07And yes, like I like as I spoke earlier to veteran upgrade Ian Jennifer Aniston.
0:40:14You know, she's about my age.
0:40:16I remember, you know, her being in Friends and all that.
0:40:19And that was kind of fun to see that.
0:40:20And a bunch of other famous people, Steven Spielberg, for Pete's sake.
0:40:24I got to see Steven Spielberg in person.
0:40:26That was pretty cool.
0:40:27But, you know, it's it's fine.
0:40:31I've seen you two a couple of times at Apple events, too.
0:40:33And look how well that went.
0:40:34So I think the overall slate of content is looking pretty interesting that, you know,
0:40:40they they had like this is a real sort of like a bunch of stuff.
0:40:43And it looks like from at least a production standpoint, they have a lot of shows that
0:40:47look very pretty.
0:40:47Oprah came out.
0:40:49She was kind of like the one more thing type situation.
0:40:52Right.
0:40:52And she gave a really touching speech and they actually gave some information about what
0:40:56she's working on.
0:40:57So we knew it was like a big deal with Apple.
0:41:00A lot of things they're working on together.
0:41:02But she's working on two documentaries right now.
0:41:04And it seems like some kind of video, like whether it's going to be in the TV service
0:41:10or it's going to be a podcast, I'm not sure the book club that like the Oprah Book Club,
0:41:14she wants to kind of put that into a billion pockets.
0:41:16So she said, I really enjoyed her speech.
0:41:18I thought it was very touching and very funny.
0:41:19But yeah, so like that we we had assumed Oprah would would come out and Tim seemed very emotional
0:41:26about Oprah.
0:41:27He wiped away a tear.
0:41:28He did.
0:41:29He did.
0:41:30Wiped away a tear for Oprah.
0:41:32We knew.
0:41:33I mean, that was the easiest one to call, right?
0:41:35And in fact, when she wasn't in that original, the guy sitting next to me, I don't even know
0:41:39who he was, was like, Oprah, Oprah, come on, Oprah, Oprah, Oprah.
0:41:43And it was never Oprah, right?
0:41:44It was always somebody else.
0:41:45And then he was big brain.
0:41:48And I'm sitting there going, okay, guy next to me.
0:41:51I'm a little surprised too, that there's no Oprah yet.
0:41:54And then there's like, oh, there's one other person.
0:41:56I'm like, and I began writing my tweet at that point, saying that Oprah was on stage
0:42:01because I knew that that was going to be there.
0:42:03And that was indeed what it was.
0:42:05So, you know, what they're using her for is also interesting because it's the, you know,
0:42:08she's got a bunch of projects in the works that that was a good example of somebody who's
0:42:11got an overall deal with Apple instead of somebody who has got a show on Apple.
0:42:17Although I think Reese Witherspoon's company has sold like three shows, didn't we say last
0:42:21week, three or four shows?
0:42:22Her company, Hello Sunshine, has sold the most kind of like individual shows, but like
0:42:27Oprah has a special deal, which is just like overarching all kinds of content, right?
0:42:32Including like podcast.
0:42:33Oprah's making content.
0:42:34Yeah, just like that Obama deal with Netflix, right?
0:42:37Exactly.
0:42:38Oprah deal with Apple and she's got a documentary and a mini series doc and she's going to do
0:42:44a book club, like with live conversation with the author and stuff, which I actually think
0:42:48because Oprah's book club, for people who don't know, and people don't know Oprah very
0:42:51well, Oprah's book club on her weekday show in the US when that was on was enormous, like
0:42:57one of the greatest ways to sell a book ever.
0:43:00And honestly, I think got people to read a book who'd never read books and it was a phenomenon.
0:43:05And so the fact that she's kind of going to bring that back and use Apple as the platform,
0:43:09I think could be very interesting depending on how they do it because the digital media
0:43:18world might be a better fit for something like that because you could do little bits
0:43:23about the book and talk to people who are reading it and she's going to do this apparently
0:43:28like live conversation with the author, but that'll be available on demand.
0:43:32And I kind of feel like it would be easy to say, oh, well, it's nice.
0:43:37This is prestige stuff, but who's going to actually do it.
0:43:39But I will say Oprah's book club was like an enormous thing.
0:43:44And if they can do that right using the technology at hand for Apple, that could be a big deal.
0:43:51- All right, should we move on to Apple news?
0:43:53- Yeah, I think so.
0:43:55I mean, we will have every opportunity to talk about Apple TV+ in the future since it's not
0:44:00out yet.
0:44:00- Coming later.
0:44:01We don't know how much it costs.
0:44:02We don't know if it's going to cost anything.
0:44:03We don't know anything.
0:44:04- Well, okay.
0:44:05So I want to make a point there.
0:44:07We do know that pricing is going to be announced in the fall and that it is a subscription
0:44:13service, which to me, and again, I don't believe these reports that we've seen that said, oh,
0:44:19they're just going to give it away and make the money up on channels because I don't think
0:44:21that actually makes any sense at all.
0:44:23- No, I don't either.
0:44:23- I think you would have to be really far down a rabbit hole to believe that the press
0:44:29release saying that pricing is going to be announced in the fall and that it's a
0:44:31subscription service could mean that the pricing is nothing and that anybody can subscribe.
0:44:36I just don't know.
0:44:37It will have a price.
0:44:39Pricing will be announced in the fall.
0:44:41They're not going to give this stuff away.
0:44:42- The real price is the bundle.
0:44:43That's the real price.
0:44:44- Probably.
0:44:45If there is a bundle, that's probably it.
0:44:47And then also, we'll see how they want to do the trial period because other stuff, Apple
0:44:55Music had a trial period.
0:44:56Apple News+ has a trial period.
0:44:58So there's opportunity out there.
0:45:00- One thing we do know though is it won't be US only.
0:45:03It will be launching in over 100 countries at launch.
0:45:05- Yeah, and that's because they signed all of their deals to have full worldwide rights
0:45:11to their content.
0:45:12- To which I sincerely thank Apple for making that happen because that was never a dead
0:45:18cert in my mind.
0:45:18So I'm very pleased that that's going to be the case.
0:45:20All right, today's episode is also brought to you by Bombass.
0:45:26Look, you might not think about socks very often.
0:45:29If you're anything like me, busy, busy.
0:45:31It's all busy.
0:45:31Everyone's busy.
0:45:32We're all busy these days.
0:45:33That is, I actually think, a great thing about a lot of us, positive busyness.
0:45:37Taking away things you don't have to worry about anymore.
0:45:39Maybe you don't spend a lot of time thinking what goes on your feet, but let me tell you
0:45:43why you should think about Bombass socks.
0:45:44They're super stylish, super comfortable.
0:45:48They have really great patterns, some of my favorite patterns.
0:45:51- Have you seen the stripes, Myke?
0:45:53- Yes, I've seen lots of stripes.
0:45:54- Have you seen the Man's Nautical Stripe Dress Calf Sock?
0:45:57- I most definitely have.
0:45:57- That is my sock zoom.
0:46:02- Let me tell you, Jason.
0:46:03- Socks Plus.
0:46:04- Sesame Street.
0:46:05- Socks Plus, Myke.
0:46:06- They have a Sesame Street collaboration, which I absolutely adore because they are
0:46:11Sesame Street themed socks.
0:46:13So if you look at them, they're just fun colors or fun patterns, but they are evoking
0:46:18specific Sesame Street characters.
0:46:20For example, they have blue socks with just one little cookie on them.
0:46:24I think that these are really cool and that they, like, Bombass socks are super comfortable.
0:46:28But I think that the patterns, the patterns really sell me.
0:46:31I am a man who enjoys a fancy colorful sock.
0:46:34They have great dress socks and they have socks of all different sizes.
0:46:36So if you want athletic socks or quarter socks, calf socks, they've got them all.
0:46:40Bombass makes the most comfortable socks ever.
0:46:43They're made from super soft natural cotton and every single pair comes with arch support,
0:46:48a seamless toe, a cushioned footbed.
0:46:50These are super comfy without being too thick and that is wonderful.
0:46:55They have so many colors, patterns, lengths and styles.
0:46:58They'll look great in the gym, at the office or out on the town.
0:47:01Your feet, they're dreaming of Bombass socks right now.
0:47:03And for every purchase you make, they donate a pair to someone in need as well.
0:47:08I love that.
0:47:09I think that's awesome.
0:47:10Buy your Bombass socks today at bombass.com.
0:47:13B-O-M-B-A-S.com/upgrade and you will get 20% of your first purchase.
0:47:19That is B-O-M-B-A-S.com/upgrade for 20% off.
0:47:23Go there right now. Your feet will thank you for it.
0:47:26That URL one last time bombass.com/upgrade for that 20% off.
0:47:30Our thanks to Bombass for their support of this show and Relay FM.
0:47:34B-O-M-B-A-S.
0:47:35This is going to be another one of those situations where no one understands what I'm saying
0:47:39because the chat room right now are really struggling.
0:47:42It's B-O-M-B-A-S.com/upgrade.
0:47:45B-O-M-B-A-S bombass.com.
0:47:48That's the American pronunciation.
0:47:50Thanks, Jason. I appreciate that.
0:47:52You're welcome, Myke.
0:47:53All right. So, should we move on to Apple News Plus?
0:47:56Yeah, let's do it. This is the texture thing that Apple bought, which was the magazine service.
0:48:04Now, the big difference here, and I thought very cleverly shown on stage by being demoed
0:48:10on an iPhone, is what they're not trying to do is digital replicas where there's like,
0:48:17"Hey, here's an iPad and we scanned in a page of a magazine and you can read it."
0:48:21That's not what they're doing here.
0:48:23They have worked with all these companies that publish these magazines to try and get
0:48:27the content feeds out and then have them display in an attractive way but using the Apple News
0:48:32format. And so, yes, you can read them on your iPad and they'll look nice, but you can read
0:48:37them on your iPhone. And so, they've taken their deals, the texture made with the publishers,
0:48:41they seem to have rolled those over. So, there's 3,000, I mean, 300 magazines in total.
0:48:46That was a little slip up in the order of magnitude mistake by the presenter.
0:48:51That's... And then also, and it's funny, I was watching my Twitter feed and like I was
0:48:58literally watching people complain about things that hadn't been mentioned yet as they were being
0:49:01mentioned multiple times in this event, including, "But what about newspapers?" And the answer is,
0:49:08well, yes, the LA Times and the Wall Street Journal, so not the Washington Post, not the
0:49:14New York Times, but the LA Times and the Wall Street Journal are in there. There are a bunch
0:49:18of digital premium subscribers, like subscriptions like TechCrunch has their new premium tier,
0:49:23and that's gonna be covered in here and other stuff like that is gonna be covered as a part
0:49:28of this single subscription plan. And unlike so many of the things announced today, this is
0:49:33basically pushing out with the next version of iOS and macOS with an updated news app and will be a
0:49:41one-month free trial and it has a price of $9.99 and is also launching in Canada. And they've got
0:49:48Canadian partners, including magazines and a large newspaper and in English and French. And then
0:49:56we'll be rolling out in the UK and Australia pretty soon, like this fall. So this is a service
0:50:02that is the furthest along of anything announced today, I think.
0:50:05- Yeah, because it's out now, right? Like that makes it just naturally the furthest, right?
0:50:10- It's pretty far along if it's actually been released. Yeah, I think so. But I think this is,
0:50:15I'm fascinated because my guess is that this was not part of their original plan with news.
0:50:21If it was, then good for them for having the foresight. But like the first step with news
0:50:26was to get the news app out and try to make the news reading experience and the web reading
0:50:31experience nicer by letting Apple control the app part of it. And then you just have to generate
0:50:37content in a feed format, in RSS or an Apple News format. And then they hired, they started hiring
0:50:46editorial people to curate and they built recommendation engines, which also I should say,
0:50:51every single presentation today had at least a nod toward privacy, which was very interesting. And
0:50:59that is something that Apple has just all in on now. Every product, it's like the Greenpeace
0:51:04protests leading to the eco-friendly slide on every single product announcement Apple makes.
0:51:11This is like that, where it's like there will always be a privacy mention in a product or
0:51:16service. And so here, they revealed that your personalized news recommendations actually come
0:51:22from a pool of recommendations that is dropped in your device. And then your device uses its
0:51:28on-device analysis of your behavior to select out of that pool and show you stories. So Apple
0:51:34doesn't know what you're reading, only your device does and it doesn't radio that back.
0:51:39That is really interesting. And I didn't know that before. I'm not sure if they've shared that
0:51:43before, but that is something that they kept hitting home about in terms of what their
0:51:49commitment to privacy is. Do you think, I mean, they didn't say, but like, do you think that
0:51:53they're maybe doing some iCloud-based sharing like they do with photo stuff? Because you could end up
0:51:57with completely different recommendations device to device, right? Depending on what you're reading.
0:52:02I don't know. I think I don't use Apple News enough to say, but I think maybe there is some
0:52:07tracking of what you've read in your iCloud account. But I'm not 100% on that. I mean,
0:52:12it would make sense that it is that way. It doesn't mean that they did it, but that would
0:52:16make sense. And that would be something that would be locked to you and it wouldn't be Apple knowing
0:52:21it, right? It would be your data syncing across devices. So it may do that. Anyway, so the next
0:52:26step of this is there's still a lot of paywalled content out there and it's not in Apple News.
0:52:31And they decided to buy the texture service because they wanted to go in this direction.
0:52:36And I got to say, I think this is a pretty cool idea. I think $10 a month to unlock access to all
0:52:43sorts of extra content could potentially be really good. It all comes down to the partners. Although
0:52:48I will say as a Californian, having the LA Times is really good because that's a really good
0:52:56newspaper. And in general, the Wall Street Journal, honestly, like $10 a month for the
0:53:04Wall Street Journal alone is not a bad deal at all if it truly is the bulk of the content from
0:53:09the journal. And there's some kind of question about exactly what is in there. Yeah. It doesn't
0:53:14seem that there's a definitive answer yet. But that and then like Sports Illustrated and like
0:53:18some of the other magazine partners, like it doesn't take a lot if you're somebody who likes
0:53:21to read. It doesn't take a lot for the $10 a month to actually be a pretty good deal. Now,
0:53:27it's not for everybody, obviously, but their point with 300 magazines was to say, there's probably
0:53:33five or 10 magazines on here that speak directly to you. You're not going to, as they said,
0:53:39humorously, now, if you subscribe to all 300 magazines, it would cost you $8,000 a year.
0:53:45Nobody's going to do that. But you can burrow down into something that is like super interesting to
0:53:53you. Maybe Rolling Stone is interesting to you or Sports Illustrated would be interesting to me. I
0:53:57used to subscribe to that. There's a lot of opportunity here for this to be not for everybody,
0:54:02but to be a good deal for a lot of people who like to read. So this felt to me a lot like another
0:54:09attempt at newsstand, right? Like Apple's old service. Yeah, they even said, "Oh, we love a
0:54:15newsstand." And they had a picture of a newsstand with, I looked, MacLife, because MacWorld is not
0:54:20printed anymore, but MacLife is still done in print. And there was a MacLife issue right in
0:54:25front of a Wired edition. I was like, "Yeah, they put a Mac magazine in there. It's great."
0:54:28So they mentioned a newsstand and they showed the newsstand. And, you know, this is what
0:54:34newsstand should have been. That's the tragedy of it is that newsstand should have been this,
0:54:39you know, eight years ago. Newsstand should have been this. Newsstand should have been,
0:54:44and Steve Jobs got carried away with a product demo and went in a totally different direction.
0:54:49Newsstand should have been, "I am providing you with this player, basically, app, and here's a
0:54:59spec. You put your content in this format and it will be viewable." And instead, what newsstand was,
0:55:06was, "Hey, why doesn't everybody write an app, their own custom app?" Which was super expensive,
0:55:12hard to do, led to a lot of bad apps, and ultimately was a failure. So this is very much
0:55:19like newsstand except the right way. As somebody who went through that process with MacWorld,
0:55:25let me tell you, boy, I wish this had been it. Because it would have been so easy to set up a
0:55:30project saying, "We're going to do an Apple News export from MacWorld Magazine." You know, whether
0:55:37our business people would have wanted to do the deal for the premium one, I don't know. But
0:55:42it would have been a conversation and it would have been something that would have been within
0:55:48our area of expertise. And instead, we spent a lot of money on an app developer for an app that was
0:55:55okay. So, you know, it is nice to see Apple finally get there with this. Apple News is a
0:56:00pretty decent vehicle for this. Apple News is not my favorite thing. I don't use it a lot,
0:56:06but it has gotten better over time. And I think that putting custom or putting premium content
0:56:14in it could potentially make it just that much more appealing. Yeah, it reminded me of newsstand
0:56:21in a few ways, right? Like the bold layouts and the interactive elements and moving images and
0:56:25automatic downloading and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, except they did it all with this Apple News
0:56:30format stuff where you don't have to write an app. You just have to, they write the app and say,
0:56:34"Here are the rich elements you can provide me," which is absolutely the right way to do it.
0:56:41Yeah, I guess the other part of it, like, you know, we're not going to know,
0:56:49when thinking about like, "Is this going to be a success?" It's like, "This is great for the
0:56:53customer because you get a lot of option available to you for not a large amount of money, but what
0:56:59is it going to be like for the publisher?" Like, we just, we don't know. And I think that that will
0:57:03be the thing that ends up like, "Will this be newsstand failed attempt three, or is it going to be
0:57:09a better, more long-lasting experience than that for more publishers?" We just don't know.
0:57:15My gut feeling is that because this is something where there are deals happening behind the scenes,
0:57:19that it is much more likely to be successful. There are already a lot of people using Apple News.
0:57:24Because it's installed on every Apple device, there are a lot of people who use it. It's a
0:57:28much friendlier approach than RSS was. As much as nerds love RSS, the fact is, regular people didn't
0:57:35really ever get it. But that is basically what this is, is a glorified RSS kind of reader system.
0:57:43And those deals behind the scenes can be adjusted. So if this, you know, Apple can drop its
0:57:49percentage. Apple, you know, can make new deals based on what publishers are seeing.
0:57:54Maybe some deals will fall out and others will come in. But I feel like it will, they've got
0:58:02much more flexibility with something like this to kind of like keep adjusting it on the fly and
0:58:07making sure that it works pretty well. If nobody ever uses it, then it'll be a flop. But I think
0:58:11it will, I think it's got a good chance of succeeding at some level. Maybe not to the
0:58:16wildest dreams of some of the publishers, but I think it's got a shot. And I am somebody who has
0:58:21kind of been skeptical about this thing. I think it's got a shot at success. Is this a product that
0:58:26Jason Snow wants in his life? I will seriously consider it. I have a lot of things to read,
0:58:31but I would seriously consider it because like I said, I think it's a pretty good deal. Just for
0:58:35the LA Times and Wall Street Journal and, you know, some of those magazines alone, I will
0:58:41seriously consider it. Yeah. Yeah. See, this isn't going to be my thing, right? I don't think,
0:58:46unless, you know, like I pay for the Wall Street Journal because I get great use in my work out of
0:58:52the articles that they write. But if, for example, it was the full Wall Street Journal experience
0:59:00that I currently have available to me and/or it's just the things that I want, which is mostly the
0:59:04tech coverage, then I would switch over to Apple News because it would be saving me money because
0:59:09the Wall Street Journal is already more expensive than $10 a month. It's like $25 or $30 a month.
0:59:14So, you know, there could be something in it there for me, but I don't know. I don't know. I don't
0:59:21know if it's something that I particularly would want in my life. All right. Should we take another
0:59:29break and then move on to Apple Arcade and Apple Card? Fantastic idea. All right. Today's episode
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1:01:39Relay FM. Apple Arcade. This is... This is... Going on down to the Apple Arcade. Let me just say something
1:01:49about the naming of these... Of this whole thing. You know, Apple confuses me with their naming,
1:01:55right? Because like, why is... Why do we have Apple TV Plus? We have Apple News Plus.
1:02:01Why do we have Apple Arcade? Like, how did that happen in the lineup of looking at their services?
1:02:09I prefer the name Apple Arcade to Apple News Plus and Apple TV Plus, but it's like, "Ah, you're going
1:02:15down a route." No, you're not. You've gone off on the left field here and we now have Apple Arcade.
1:02:21What else would they call it? Apple Games Plus? Yeah, why not though? It's called News Plus and
1:02:25TV Plus. Like, they're just as bad names, but there's like a consistency, right?
1:02:30Yeah, well, this is a better name. I like this name. This is adorable.
1:02:34Trust me. Because it's fun, Myke. That's why. No, it's a way better name.
1:02:37Because it's fun. It's a game. It's fun. Okay. TV is serious business, Myke.
1:02:41News is serious business. But games... And Ty, Senior Vice President of the App
1:02:46Store, came out to talk about this and she said a phrase that I loved, "Competing with free is hard."
1:02:51Yeah, this is basically the mea culpa on how distorted... I mean, they didn't say it this way.
1:02:55They're like, "Hey, free-to-play games. Everybody loves them. They make lots of money and they make
1:02:59lots of money for us because we take our cut and you do in-app purchases and it's great. Everybody
1:03:04loves them." But what of the other games? Our system is broken and they are not as successful
1:03:11as they should be. And so Apple has basically created a separate business model that is not
1:03:18purchasing games. It's not free with in-app purchase. It's not purchasing games. It is
1:03:26subscription service where they apparently are helping fund games and publishing them
1:03:36and they're exclusive to this service. Fascinating. So yeah, the publishing part is one of the things
1:03:43that is most important. And I have some stuff that I want to get to about that in a minute.
1:03:47But this is a hundred games that Apple are claiming some level of exclusivity over as part
1:03:54of this game subscription service. Right, mobile exclusivity and service exclusivity. It doesn't
1:03:59mean that they might not sell it on a console. Exactly, because there was a specific game that
1:04:04they showed, which I think is called Overland, which is coming to the Switch. So it was one of
1:04:09the ones that was in their little presentation. But to be honest, Apple just doesn't want these
1:04:15games on Android. That's their big thing, right? Not on Android and not on any other maybe
1:04:21subscription service that will come out. Now we need to say this is a subscription service. It
1:04:25is not a streaming service. I get these names wrong all the time and I will continue to get
1:04:32these names wrong. But like this is a, you pay an amount of money, you can download these games.
1:04:37These games are yours, I'm assuming, until you stop paying. And you can play them offline,
1:04:42you can play them online, etc. Like they are, you're paying an amount of money to get access
1:04:46to playing these games. I think that they have an incredibly exciting selection of games available.
1:04:53There are a lot of really top tier developers working on this. So you have like, Sega,
1:05:01they're bringing Sonic Racing, Lego is building a game for this. Annapurna Interactive, they are like
1:05:08a fantastic publisher. There are some sequels, there was a wonderful RPG called Oceanhorn,
1:05:14Oceanhorn 2 is going to be on this. Us2 Games, the creators of Monument Valley,
1:05:18have a new game called Repair, which is going to be here. There is a bunch of great studios,
1:05:23a bunch of great developers. I am so excited about this because this isn't just a thing that I like,
1:05:32which is iOS games. It's also like they seem to have done a very good job at it,
1:05:38where they're bringing in the right developers to make these games. I was wondering,
1:05:43are we going to see the makers of Clash of Clients here? And we're not because this isn't
1:05:48their business. I'm really excited about the way that they seem to have done this.
1:05:55We mentioned the Apple TV earlier. So these will be on iPhone, iPad, Mac, and the Apple TV.
1:06:01I'm not expecting every game will be, but I bet a lot of games will be and where possible,
1:06:06I'm sure Apple is pushing on that for them to do that.
1:06:09Keep in mind that at this point, if you make a game, at least this fall,
1:06:15when this service is going to arrive, you should be able to make a game that runs on iOS
1:06:21and Apple TV and Mac, right?
1:06:25Miles of Pan wouldn't be a differentiator here because games aren't written in
1:06:29native iOS languages. Like you can, like, so for example, the reason that Altos Adventure
1:06:33and Altos Odyssey are on the Mac is because they're just written in Unreal or whatever,
1:06:37which the Mac supports.
1:06:39But I would imagine that the work that is done to make it work on iOS, that one of Apple's
1:06:44priorities for the fall would be to get it, that you could take a game off of iOS and
1:06:48play it on the Mac. And that would be part of what would be Mars of Pan.
1:06:53Yeah, that makes sense. Along your train of thought, but I don't, I just, I don't know
1:06:58if that does necessarily make it easier.
1:07:01I don't know. Since they have this thing.
1:07:03Game development uses different technologies.
1:07:06Right. But I mean, I guess that's the question is will that stuff, I just, I look at this
1:07:10and I think this is a reason why if you're building Mars of Pan, you prioritize the general
1:07:17concept of game over here should run over there. Right? Like because of this.
1:07:21That makes sense. I'm completely on board with you. That 100% makes sense.
1:07:26Not saying, not saying that, well, of course, Mars of Pan will bring up, but more like Mars
1:07:30of plan. Mars of Pan is a thing that Apple has had to prioritize over this last year and before.
1:07:36And I look at this thing and I go, probably going to prioritize game compatibility.
1:07:41Aren't you? Just because you're going to be charging people for this and it makes them,
1:07:46the game service look better and it makes the Mac look better.
1:07:50So it's like even just fundamentally Apple, I'm sure we'll be pushing because they are
1:07:54trying to be pushing more people to make their stuff cross platform in the future.
1:07:58Anyway, if they're going to be involved in this service, we would like you to do this, right?
1:08:02We want you to have this everywhere. Um, and part of this is I think because, so
1:08:07Apple made like a very quick kind of comment, uh, and I made a quick comment about kind of like
1:08:14helping these studios out. I think Apple is acting as publisher. They are paying an amount of money
1:08:20to these companies to grant this exclusivity and also to help them kind of get along their way here,
1:08:26which makes perfect sense. And this is 100% the way they should do this. This one thing,
1:08:33this idea of Apple being publisher, it's making me rethink the idea of the old adage,
1:08:40Apple doesn't get games. I think this is Apple getting games, Jason, but it's very important
1:08:46that they do it this way. I want to hear from the developers about this. That is the next phase of
1:08:52this. And what we'll hear over the next week is we'll hear from some game developers who are deep
1:08:57down in this and their thoughts about this. But like you, I looked at this and I thought, Oh,
1:09:02like that is such a better approach to say, we want this thing to succeed. Um, and we're gonna,
1:09:09we're gonna not just like scoop up apps that get submitted to the app store and say, say,
1:09:14would you like to have this? And no, they're gonna, you gotta start way before that. And if
1:09:18you're gonna start way before that, you're gonna negotiate a deal. And if you negotiate an exclusive
1:09:22distribution deal, um, part of that is probably, uh, you know, to kick in some money and maybe,
1:09:29you know, you're a publisher at that point. But the idea here is Apple is going to create a
1:09:33service that's going to throw off a lot of cash to developers, but it costs a lot of money to
1:09:38develop these games. And a lot of these developers are small indie developers. So it may change over
1:09:44time, but I like the idea of Apple saying, we want the catalog to be good. We're going to have more
1:09:49than a hundred of these games and we've seen your track record and it's really good. And we're going
1:09:55to be your business partner here. And by business partner, we don't mean you do all the work,
1:10:00upload it to the store, we approve it, and then we take 30%. Right? It's not, that's not the kind of
1:10:05business partner. This is, we're going to sign a deal with you. It's going to be exclusive. Maybe
1:10:09we're going to get you money upfront so that you can actually build this game and then it'll be
1:10:13exclusive in our service. So I want to hear from the game professionals about how they're, they
1:10:18feel about this compared to other kind of competition, but iOS games is a pretty great place
1:10:23to be. And I think there's potential and most of the greatness now is free to play within App Purchase,
1:10:29but I love what they showed on stage. I love that they showed Monument Valley, for example,
1:10:35and they had a screenshot of Alto. And it's like, I love those games. Those are, those are the best
1:10:42games on iOS, right? They're not the most lucrative games, but they're the best games. And if Apple
1:10:47does this right, what they're going to get is this second set of successful games on iOS that are
1:10:54really great. And I'm sure they wouldn't say it because they do make a lot of money with the free
1:10:58to play in App Purchase games, but in a much nicer environment where you don't have to build your
1:11:05game to be a money machine. Instead, you can just make a beautiful game and people will play it and
1:11:10love it and they'll make a lot of money. And I'll tell you, if Alto's Odyssey was in this service,
1:11:14and they paid out based on the amount of time spent, they would have made a lot of money for me.
1:11:20I know that for sure. They would have gotten all the money from my account for a few months,
1:11:25for sure. I'm really excited about this. I'm really, really excited about this because
1:11:29the games that they showed again, like the trailer was great. The stuff that they've got on their
1:11:33website was great. I know so many companies in this that are great companies. Like,
1:11:40I'm very enthused about who Apple's deciding to work with, how they're like at least publicly
1:11:45positioning themselves as like a partner with these companies. And like, I think that this is,
1:11:50this feels as a avid player of iOS games, I'm excited about this. I'm excited that when I open
1:11:57the App Store, I can go to the games tab and I can just get a new game. And it's like, all right,
1:12:01I'll try this next one. And there's like going to be over a hundred and like a hundred of these
1:12:05games at launch is what they're saying, right? I'll try and play as many of them as I can. Why
1:12:10not? Like I go to the App Store every couple of days, see what the game of the day is,
1:12:13see if I'm interested. And you know, maybe I buy a couple a week. Well now, like I'll go to the
1:12:18arcade tab and I'll download one of the new games that's there and I'll play it. Like, why not? Like,
1:12:22I have it available to me. I'm really, really, really excited about this. This is, I think,
1:12:27the thing that speaks the most to me and what I like. The TV stuff is obviously an interest to me,
1:12:34but I like the business of the streaming services more than I like TV, right? Like,
1:12:40I don't know why exactly, but it's the reason upstream, like one of the reasons upstream,
1:12:45well, I think the reason is you, like you are a passionate, avid viewer of television. And for
1:12:50some reason I am interested in the way that TV stream companies work. I don't know why this is,
1:12:56but I just, I find it really interesting. It's a new kind of avenue for technology and technology
1:13:01media. But I am a gamer. Like, I love video games and I love iOS games. And now I'm going to have
1:13:09access to more great ones by great developers. And I am such a big fan of Indie Game Studios
1:13:17and a lot of the companies that they worked with that I really hope that it helps, uh,
1:13:21boom, like be like a big boon to them. And I really hope that there is going to be,
1:13:25I really hope that it's not a problem for the companies that aren't in the service.
1:13:30Uh, but my feeling is kind of like, if you make a game that you have to pay for, you already have
1:13:35such huge market focuses going against you. Is this really going to make it worse than it already
1:13:41is? I don't know about that. I don't know. I think, um, if this is successful, it's basically
1:13:48going to push the app store to be you're either in the subscription or you're free to play with
1:13:53in app purchase. Like that will be the strong incentive if this is successful, but there are
1:13:57two ways you do games on iOS. And if you want to be outside and charge $6 or whatever, you can do
1:14:04that too. But it'll be a lot harder to get there. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It will be. Because if
1:14:11you're a subscriber to this service, you're probably just going to look at that tab,
1:14:13look at the arcade tab and say, here's what's next. And if there's some app that's not in the
1:14:17arcade, are you going to see it? I don't know. But then the, but the question that I would like
1:14:22account of that with right now is are people seeing them anyway? I don't know. Right? Like, and I think
1:14:27that might be why Apple has felt the requirement to move in on this. And this is something that
1:14:32they can have a real positive impact for a lot of companies. And I, and I really hope that it's
1:14:37something that will continue. I'm very intrigued about this one. Um, and it's, it's interesting
1:14:43that they've announced it right now because it's not out for a while, fall again. So it's intriguing,
1:14:49but we'll see. Yeah. Do you want to talk about Apple card? Well, of course. How could we not
1:14:57talk about yet another Apple, some really interested in this Apple are making a credit
1:15:01card. They've partnered with Goldman Sachs. Uh, they've integrated into the Apple wallet. This
1:15:06was stuff we kind of knew about before, right? This was what, this was what the rumors were from
1:15:10Bloomberg, but we didn't really understand what any of that meant, right? Cause that on its own,
1:15:14doesn't really seem to make much sense. As you would expect the credit card can be used online.
1:15:18It can be used in stores worldwide is primarily through Apple pay, but Apple will be mailing
1:15:24their customers a titanium credit card that has no numbers on it, no signature on it,
1:15:30nothing because of course, uh, I kind of love that. Um, one of the bits has a few big things
1:15:37about this. Like one is like quick applications. You just apply and I think like in Apple wallet,
1:15:41and if you get it, you get it and it's immediately available to you. One of their big things is
1:15:45something called daily cash. You get 2% cash back on purchases, 3% if you're purchasing something
1:15:50from Apple and you get this every single day in cash deposited to your Apple pay cash card.
1:15:56It was just, I was like, wow. Okay. So lots of, lots of credit cards do. And I think this is
1:16:02something that's going to come out over the next week. And I tweeted something to the extent that,
1:16:05Oh, well, I'm going to, I guess I'm going to spend some of my time this week doing research about how,
1:16:11um, credit card, like what the best credit cards are and stuff, because people have do a lot of
1:16:16research on this and it really depends on what, how you live your life and what your priorities
1:16:20are about what credit card you should get. Um, it's not bad. Although my, I understand,
1:16:26like somebody was tweeting at me, like Amazon has a credit card that gives you 5% back on Amazon
1:16:30purchases. And so if you buy all your Apple stuff from Amazon, then you get 5% back and that's a
1:16:35better deal. It's like, well, yeah, if you spend a lot on Amazon, that's the right card for you.
1:16:38If you don't, it's not. Um, what's interesting about this is, uh, that these percentage cash
1:16:44back seem decent. Um, and there are immediate, like we have a discover card here and we get like
1:16:50certificates that we have to cash out at various points of the year, uh, for certain stores,
1:16:58or we can get it in cash, but it's actually worth more. If you have a partner store and it's just
1:17:04like, that's nice. But then I look at this and I think this is way better because my application,
1:17:10my Apple pay cash balance, which they called Apple cash. So I feel like maybe Apple pay cash
1:17:16has, is becoming Apple cash now. And then they're going to get rid of that pay part. Um,
1:17:21it just goes in there and it goes in there every day. And, you know, I see the psychological
1:17:29benefit of having that there because some of the companies that do the cash back, put it on your
1:17:36balance. Some of them send you a check. Some of them send you a gift card. Some of them,
1:17:41you have to do some work in order to get the result. And that's not as good. Um, and then
1:17:46again, you know, you may be somebody who flies on Southwest airlines all the time and you've got
1:17:50their card. And by, I read an article that said that was the best credit card deal in the U S if
1:17:55you fly them, because you can earn so many points that you can qualify for their two for one pass.
1:18:00And at which point you get essentially 50% off every single airfare. It's like, it's a great
1:18:05deal. If you fit there for people who listen to this show, I look at this and I think, well,
1:18:11a lot of people who love, who love Apple products, this is probably a pretty decent deal. Even if all
1:18:16you're doing is using it to buy everything you buy from Apple, because you probably buy a lot of
1:18:21stuff from Apple and you'll get 3% cash back, uh, right there. And that's pretty cool. So the
1:18:28physical card is a 1%, which is, which is your let they're not providing a great incentive to
1:18:32use the physical card, but they're like, well, we have to give you one and not every place takes
1:18:37Apple pay. So we're going to do that. But, um, but it really does seem like a product designed
1:18:43for Apple pay first and as a physical card last. So one of the things that I like is clarity. Um,
1:18:50and it's not so much the money, it's like the clarity. And I think there's a lot of clarity
1:18:54throughout the entire product. So the fact that you're seeing the cash back in cash and it's
1:19:00arriving with you on a daily basis, personally, as a consumer, I prefer that the men at the other
1:19:05myriad ways that this stuff can be done, whether you get back like a month later, or as you say,
1:19:09you get it back in this like weird thing that you have to cash in at the end of the year and
1:19:13a certificate. Yeah, it's no, it's, I get like why they do it that way. I don't like it. It's like
1:19:18clipping coupons. It's extra work and they're trying to create a barrier between you and your
1:19:22money. And I don't like you won't get it. And like, so I would give up a percent to have clarity
1:19:29because that's just a decision that I would make as a consumer. Um, and I like a lot of the other
1:19:34stuff that they're talking about. So Apple are targeting low interest rates and they're also
1:19:39doing a lot of stuff that I like about trying to inform you about how much interest you'll pay on a
1:19:43thing. And they're also trying to show you kind of like charts of your spending habits and things like
1:19:47that. They are, there's a lot of the design of the app where there are a lot of kind of like,
1:19:53internet first banks in the UK and in Europe. And I'm noticing a lot of design stuff, how like they
1:19:58said they would break down, they use machine learning on your transactions to try and assign
1:20:03some kind of code to an actual retailer. And then you can kind of see how much was spent,
1:20:08uh, with a specific retailer. There are, there are companies like Monzo and TransferWise and,
1:20:15and, uh, there's a couple of things like, there's Starling. There are a lot of these banks in the UK
1:20:20and in Europe, we would do a lot of this stuff. They have really nice apps and they break all
1:20:24this stuff down for you. I think that kind of stuff's really great. Um, no fees at all for
1:20:29anything, which is for a credit card company, wild. And privacy focused. Like, I think this
1:20:37is amazing. I am super sad that I won't be able to get this. Um, and I don't think I'm ever going
1:20:43to get it. Well, but Jason, like Apple cash, Apple pay cash still is not out of the US.
1:20:49Like, I think that my hope would be that some credit card company attached to a bank in the UK
1:20:56sees this and they're like, we want a piece of that action. So then they might help Apple
1:21:01establish themselves with the card and with Apple pay cash in the UK. That's what I hope will happen
1:21:07with this. Um, and, or I also hope that the credit card is such a success that Apple accelerates its
1:21:13efforts with the pay cash stuff and the credit card outside. Um, we will see, uh, it's launching
1:21:21in the summer in the US, but like I personally, I would be immediately on this. Like, this would be
1:21:26great for me, the way that I spend on credit cards. Like I like pay my credit card off every month.
1:21:31Um, so like, you know, the interest rate stuff is never that much of an issue for me. Cause I,
1:21:35I don't, I just, I had, I went through all this when I was a much younger man. Uh, and, and I
1:21:40don't, I don't like to get into debt in these ways where I can avoid it. Um, and I, I, but I think
1:21:47that this is a very interesting play for Apple. This is, this is something else. Like I tweeted
1:21:53this, like when this happened, like this is not your grandparents, Apple, like this is not, this
1:21:58is a very, very different company. This is a company who wants to take your money and they want
1:22:04your money to flow through them. And then they're going to give you money to spend on their stuff.
1:22:09Like this is again, like if you have a trillion dollars in the bank or like,
1:22:13whatever much money they have in the bank, you're a trillion dollar company.
1:22:16This is what you do because you have so much money. What else are you going to do with it all?
1:22:22By the way, if you have a trillion dollars in the bank, you are literally the bank. Um,
1:22:25the other bank now they, they are kind of the bank now. This is, um, also Apple's Apple's
1:22:33rationale here for this product is not. Um, the rationale that almost anybody else has a credit
1:22:39card for, and that is powerful for them because they have all of this influence that they can,
1:22:45they can do this. And this, you know, we made a deal with Goldman Sachs and all of that. It does
1:22:49have, it feels a little bit like the early days of the, uh, of the iPod and the iTunes store where,
1:22:55um, Apple was coming at it from a different angle and they got a partner to go along with them or
1:23:00even the iPhone and singular to a certain extent, it feels like that where it's sort of like, well,
1:23:03we need a bank to be a partner to do this, but we have all of these priorities that are not,
1:23:08uh, anybody else's priorities in the financial services arena because we're Apple. Our priorities
1:23:13are different. Our priorities are, um, we have a business with lots of devices and we want to take,
1:23:18uh, we'll just take our cut out of all the transactions that are going to pass through.
1:23:24And that works for us. So we don't want, and what we want in exchange is we want the bank we're
1:23:29using to agree not to take any data and sell it, which I don't know if people know this, but like
1:23:35almost every bank will sell resell your personal data. Like they do that. That's part of their
1:23:41business model. So we're not going to let them do that. And Apple's gonna keep stuff on device and
1:23:46not even analyze a whole bunch of stuff that you do. And, and they put up that slide. It's basically
1:23:51like, there are all these things about your transaction that Apple just doesn't even know.
1:23:55And, um, and it's all kept on device and, and yes, they extended the wallet app to do some stuff too,
1:24:01which is nice, but, um, and some of that they could probably do with every card that's an Apple
1:24:07pay. And it's a little disappointing that they're like only our card, but it's their prerogative.
1:24:12But, um, you know, because their priorities are different, their product is a little bit different
1:24:16and it fits in with the story they're trying to tell. And I think for a lot of people,
1:24:22this will be a very good option. Um, especially since, you know, Apple is not trying to necessarily
1:24:28be the best available deal to go back to my coupon clipping metaphor. I'm positive that an expert
1:24:38would show you any number of credit cards or sets of credit cards that you could sign up for,
1:24:44for various things and work out a whole program where you could maximize the amount of savings.
1:24:48And if you take flights on this airline, you should get that card and make these kinds of
1:24:53purchases with it. I have no doubt that if you put a huge amount of effort into it, you can maximize
1:24:58the amount of savings you get from various credit cards and the ones that have fees and the ones that
1:25:03don't and that whole thing. However, Apple's not playing that game, which is not surprising since
1:25:10Apple also doesn't play the low, low price game when it comes to product prices. What Apple wants
1:25:15to do is create something that's simple, that has very clear direct benefits to you, that is a
1:25:22pretty good deal, even if it's maybe not the very, very, very best deal in credit cards and has this
1:25:28whole layer of like features and, uh, in software and security and privacy layered on top. Cause
1:25:34what Apple wants to be is, um, make a good enough product to solve a product that people are like,
1:25:40Oh, I'll just get the Apple thing. That's the easiest thing. And it's good. And it's fine.
1:25:44It's not ripping me off. And like, that's sort of the bar is it's, you know, the experts say you
1:25:49could get some better deals, but it'll be more effort and, and let, and, and you might have to
1:25:54like be a change your buying patterns a little bit. Um, that's fine. Apple, Apple is not, I think,
1:26:01even shooting for that. Apple just wants that the, the credit card equivalent of the app installed
1:26:05on your device. That's what they want to be. It's like you have an iPhone so easy to sign up on your,
1:26:12on your phone for this credit card and use it to buy all your stuff and you get cash back and you
1:26:17can see the cash coming back in a push notification appears saying you just got $8 back for that thing
1:26:23you bought. Like I, I totally see what they're going for here. And, um, it could be very
1:26:29successful for them. Even, even though it's not for everybody, because again, it doesn't have to
1:26:33be for everybody. And I do think we'll be inundated in the next week with a lot of people and a lot of
1:26:37stories about how it's, Oh no, this Apple thing is not for everybody. Now, of course it's not
1:26:42like, you know, I'm interested in it myself, but I've been meaning to research that Southwest
1:26:48airlines credit card too, because I've heard and I use them a lot that that might actually be a
1:26:53great deal because I, you know, since I use them, their big discounts would go further for me. If
1:26:59you're a heavy Amazon user, the Amazon card, which I am a heavy Amazon user, I've never even considered
1:27:05using Amazon's credit card. Right. So, you know, it doesn't have to be for everyone, but I do. It's,
1:27:10it's got a lot of stuff wrapped up in it. This feels for, for a totally weird non-Apple product,
1:27:16cause it's a financial services product. It actually feels like an Apple product to me in
1:27:19some ways. I don't know what it is. There's something very appley about this product.
1:27:22Just dealing the chat says, I think Apple's main incentive is that if people get the Apple card,
1:27:27they will be less likely to transition to another mobile phone vendor. Yes. That's the no, but like,
1:27:32that's all of this. That's what all of this is. Everything we're talking about today, all that,
1:27:36that services, that's what services is for them. It's the lock-in and getting extra money out of
1:27:42their customers. It's not always right. The TV app isn't locked in because it'll be on other devices,
1:27:47but there is this virtuous cycle of being a part of the Apple ecosystem and having access to these
1:27:54nice things. I'd say it's also very similar to their whole privacy thing that they're pushing.
1:27:58Now is sort of like, yeah, Apple stuff's a little more expensive, but it's just nicer. And like,
1:28:03even the credit card is nicer and like that's, that's their core audience, right? That's their
1:28:08core appeal in the end is yeah, all this, all this Apple stuff is nicer. And once you're in the Apple
1:28:14ecosystem using their stuff as nicer and easier and better integrated. So you might as well just
1:28:18use their stuff and use their credit card and all of that. Like that is, we can debate those points,
1:28:23but like that is what they're going for and that they've had a lot of success. And this doesn't
1:28:27have to be a bad thing. And I don't think that Joe is necessarily saying that it is a bad thing,
1:28:32but it is a realistic thing. Like the point of the services stuff is to give Apple another
1:28:39avenue to go down. And it's two things. You want to get more money where you can get it and you
1:28:43want to give your customers more of a reason to want to stay with you. And these are that,
1:28:48like it doesn't have to be like the lock-in idea. I think a lot of the time is met with an idea of,
1:28:53oh, that's a bad thing. It's like, no, it's like lock-in is a phrase that can be used. It's just
1:29:00like it is making you feel better for the choice of phone that you made. Right? Like you decided
1:29:07to get an iPhone and now look at all this stuff you can do and all of this other stuff that you'll
1:29:11be able to do, like good work on your choice. And that's how I feel as a customer of Apple,
1:29:18that like I have a bunch of benefits that I get and all of this stuff when my, when I'm in the
1:29:23right country for it, is available to me. And I think that that is a good thing as a person who
1:29:28decided many years ago that Apple is the right platform for him. And now I'm continuing to reap
1:29:33the benefits of that. Well, when I look at my friends on Android and in other ecosystems,
1:29:39I feel like that the overall that you get in that world sometimes, a lot of the time, isn't as
1:29:45like wholly inclusive of giving you all the services and things that you want for a price
1:29:51that you're happy with in a way that meets your own sensibilities. And I think that this is another
1:29:57example of that. Like I would want this product because I think that it's a cool product and it
1:30:02would tie into the things that I use every single day. Like I think that for me personally, the
1:30:07arcade and the card are the two things that I think resonate with me personally the most out
1:30:13of these as a consumer. I really want to be able to access both of these services. I am very
1:30:20intrigued about the content that Apple is making and I'm looking forward to seeing more and I know
1:30:25that I'm going to be subscribing and watching that. But like I would take the card no question
1:30:29right now and I cannot wait to give Apple my money for Apple Arcade. Fascinating. All right,
1:30:34the Upgradients have been reaching out with their questions and we should definitely try and help
1:30:39them where we can, Jason. But I want to thank our final sponsor for this week's episode and that is
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1:33:07at Real AFM. So good, so good. Myke, I have a segment before we go to Ask Upgrade. Oh a new segment?
1:33:13Yes it is not a recurring segment but something I wanted to put in here which is just a moment to
1:33:18think to pause to consider what didn't get announced at this event that could in the future
1:33:25and what I'm thinking is that plus, that plus Myke, the plus that's not on the arcade but
1:33:31that's on TV, that's on news, where else might it go? And I have a few suggestions that I'm just
1:33:37going to mention here. I'm not saying these are going to happen. Some of them it's probably less
1:33:41likely that they're going to happen but I want to, I think it would be useful for all of us over the
1:33:45next few weeks to consider what else Apple could make a service and slap a plus on and I have a
1:33:50few suggestions. One is Apple Music Plus. I'm not quite sure what they would do but is there
1:33:54something they could do with exclusive? They could do it with quality. They could take
1:33:59exclusives like they did with the iTunes sessions and they could put up a bunch of like live albums
1:34:04and acoustic sessions and stuff like that and brand them as music plus. I mean you're already
1:34:08paying for Apple Music so you probably not but I wonder about that. Apple Books Plus, so Kindle
1:34:16Unlimited and there's Prime Reading. Amazon has got a few different kind of like subscription
1:34:22book reading services. I'm not sure how big that business would be for Apple. I'm not sure how big
1:34:27it is for Amazon but I'm just going to throw it out there. That's an example of a subscription
1:34:31service that provides you with basically free books that you can read and I don't use that
1:34:40service but it's there and I think that's kind of interesting so I'll throw that out there. And the
1:34:44one that put a little chill down my spine but we talked about how so many companies like Spotify
1:34:50are investing in original audio content that they're calling a podcast but is limited to their
1:34:57app and I don't know if Apple has any designs to do this but Apple Podcasts Plus right like what
1:35:04if they did a subscription service for original podcast material. I think what's working against
1:35:10all of these things is Apple has bigger fish to fry and that they would rather focus on these more
1:35:16we've seen the ones that are the biggest opportunities for them but I still have this
1:35:21you know and maybe it wouldn't be in podcast maybe it would be part of music or it would be it would
1:35:25come with music but I keep thinking Apple's position in podcasting is so powerful they are
1:35:30still number one in terms of the playback environment and they haven't made any attempt
1:35:35to make a service out of it yet. I don't know if I can really put my mind to that thought about the
1:35:43podcasting thing right now. Just watch for the pluses keep watching for pluses. Think about the
1:35:47pluses what could get a plus stuck on the end of it because plus means recurring revenue at the
1:35:54services line and they like that. Let's go to #AskUpgrade our first question comes from
1:36:00Wayne. If you bundled all of Apple's services now that you know them all at least how much would it
1:36:05be a reasonable price for you? So how much would you pay? So we know that one of them is $10 a month
1:36:12I'm going to assume that Arcade will probably be $10 a month. I reckon they're all going to be
1:36:18like 10 so I reckon we're going to get like at that point we'll have four of them right including
1:36:23music so it'd be like $40 would be the total price. I would like to see 25 I would pay 30
1:36:34for all four of those. All right so it'll be 35 then.
1:36:41Yeah that's how it works Myke you want it to be 25 you round it up and then it's more than that
1:36:46that's that's how you do it. Do you have numbers do you have different numbers?
1:36:50I don't I haven't had time to think about it if you think of video as being in the in the
1:36:567 to 15 range probably more likely 10. Music is 10 or 15 sort of the family you know one price
1:37:04for families is not something they do for music you have to charge it you they make you pay extra
1:37:08for families but it's you know 10 or 15 you start to add it up and yeah you end up in in 50 a month
1:37:15and is there a what what's the deal that makes you take those services that you don't want because if
1:37:21the average person only buys two of them well that's 20 so a $30 bundle or $25 bundle doesn't
1:37:27really work for them. Everyone in the chat room is saying iCloud yes yes iCloud iCloud could also
1:37:33go in there sure same price economics. Sure if you wanted to so yeah I don't know I don't know
1:37:40exactly but I still think a bundle makes sense and I really and it turned out to be Oprah but for a
1:37:46while I really thought they were leading up to the big last thing being what what how do you bundle
1:37:51this but they don't have prices for these things so they can't bundle them you can't bundle them
1:37:55if you haven't announced prices for them that doesn't matter yeah that's like why would you
1:37:59even bother so and also you can't sell the bundle because they're not available right like the bundle
1:38:03if there's going to be a bundle the bundle will probably come in September which is when TV plus
1:38:09and arcade will be will be available as well. Yeah and so that's that's my guess is that we'll get it
1:38:16and there will be I have a hard time again seeing there not being a bundle there's just it makes too
1:38:21much sense they will get more subscribers into all of these things by offering a little bit of
1:38:26a discount but you know I don't know what that price is it probably more than you want though.
1:38:32Brian asks you know this was a services event there were four services if you count the card
1:38:39in those announced today only one of them is available why did they announce arcade the card
1:38:44and tv plus so far in advance? All right so tv I said earlier I think part of it is just to get it
1:38:50out there they're they're planning a stake in the ground they got their name they know other services
1:38:55are being announced they've set a date to it it means all of the people who are making the shows
1:38:58don't can stop complaining that that nobody has heard anything about what Apple is doing it lets
1:39:03Apple do freeze Apple up to continue to promote them whenever at once because the cat is out of
1:39:09the bag so that's the reason for that one I would say globally by the way it made this there's a
1:39:16coherent presentation I think there's value in that in having a presentation about services that
1:39:22if these services were tacked onto the end of hardware announcements it would be you could do
1:39:28it but I think there's value in Apple having a very straightforward like let's talk about all
1:39:32the services we provide and all the ways that they're similar and if you do that they're not
1:39:36all going to be ready at the same time and they don't want to delay the ones that are ready.
1:39:39Card I don't know other than that it probably financially you know like all the details we're
1:39:48going to leak out at some point anyway and it's part of the services conversation so you might
1:39:51as well get it out now. Arcade is interesting because it could have been a WWDC announcement
1:40:00and I have at least an indication from somewhere that will remain nameless.
1:40:09From a note Jason picked up on the ground.
1:40:11To be fair it was at Apple Park that I found that note so it could be legit.
1:40:18No it's a that this may have originally been intended as an App Store announcement or a WWDC
1:40:25announcement which would make sense because it's developers right but I could see it being in
1:40:30either event it really is appropriate for either event and maybe tipping it over the top is the
1:40:37fact that Google announced a GDC their whole big Stadia initiative which is a Google subscription
1:40:44streaming games service and I wonder if that might you know I don't think that's the only reason
1:40:51because I do think it fits. Very different services. And they are different but I could
1:40:57see how that maybe tipped the balance toward including it in this presentation rather than
1:41:02sitting on it. I think it makes way more sense here because I think it's pretty clear that at
1:41:07least for the time being this is not a thing that anybody can just decide that they want to become
1:41:11a part of with Arcade. Right the developer they're not going to evangelize to WWDC like hey we have
1:41:16this game subscription service don't call us we'll call you. You know even if that's true now it also
1:41:22frees them up at WWDC to answer questions about the subscription gaming service and maybe even say
1:41:27here's you know here's how this works and talk to your if you're a game developer talk to your
1:41:31developer contact or however they want to do it or or forget about it even it lets them communicate
1:41:37that it lets the questions kind of queue up over the course of the next few months instead of it
1:41:41being dropped on developers especially since as you put it you know it this isn't the sort of
1:41:47thing where you just sign up and so to roll that out of WWDC actually would be maybe a little more
1:41:53awkward. Myke wrote in to ask this is not me will Apple cars require approval and I looked through
1:41:59the Apple's website and it will so they spoke about the fact that you can sign up for it and
1:42:04you'll have it in minutes that's true but they are still doing a credit check on you and your approval
1:42:09is subject to a credit check passing. Credit checks can be instantaneous these days it is not a long
1:42:15process so so you can have it in minutes but you will need to pass a credit check to be able to use
1:42:20Apple card. And if you've frozen your credit you may have to unfreeze it and then do the credit
1:42:25check then but they're trying to make it easy but it's still a credit card. Yeah yeah ultimately
1:42:30there's still risk that you know that they're not taking fee that you're gonna have to pass
1:42:34a credit check. We have no idea how stringent Apple's gonna be and your interest rate as
1:42:38normal will be within a range depending on your credit history but yeah also pay off your credit
1:42:44cards don't don't don't the interest rates are too high you get a credit card pay it off pay it off
1:42:50if you can. Colton has written in to ask do you still think that Apple TV+ could be on Android
1:42:56or at least the web? I do not anymore Jason I think we've seen everything we're going to see for it.
1:43:01Well this is the counter argument which is a little bit of a hybrid of the two
1:43:08options we have been given in the past which is Apple wants it to be available on every TV
1:43:15but on other devices it's only on Apple devices and that could be the scenario. Could be is the
1:43:24question here and I'd say yeah I think it still could be I think there is it is still possible
1:43:29that Apple will make this stuff available on the web or on Android or both down the road because
1:43:36they you know it will increase the number of devices that can watch it but I think clearly
1:43:41their number one priority was TV. On an infinite time scale of course but like I think that if
1:43:46we're looking at like within launch period I don't think so I think we've seen I think we've seen
1:43:51what we're going to see there. Yeah presumably if they were going to launch with a web browser
1:43:55they would have done it they would have said so they didn't. They didn't and I think that they
1:43:59have actually made it available to more people in more ways than I expected like no like I'm not
1:44:05saying like you need to buy a new TV right that is one way but the other way is two products from two
1:44:10companies that make relatively inexpensive sticks Amazon and Roku like that is making it very
1:44:18available to a lot of people and really the best way to get this content is going to be on a
1:44:22television right it's going to always be the best way to view this content is on a television and
1:44:27if you don't have access to a television then you probably want an iPad right like that's that's
1:44:32probably what you want to do for this type of stuff. Steve asks is this the weirdest Apple event
1:44:37that you have ever covered? Not even close. This is why I wanted to put this in there because I
1:44:43was hoping Jason that you would be able to provide a bit of context I don't think this is a weird
1:44:46Apple event at all if anything I thought that this was a much more Apple-y feeling Apple event than
1:44:51even I was expecting it to be. Yeah other than the the part where the individual TV people came
1:44:56out on stage and talked like the screen went black the the stage went black and then they they
1:45:01magically appeared right? I think that they handled it really well all of that everyone was
1:45:05interesting and entertaining you know like I actually did an interesting job. Yeah although
1:45:09Camille Nongianno is the very clearly the polished public speaker of the group right? Yeah.
1:45:17Yeah that guy that was did a good job too though I thought that he was pretty good he told a good
1:45:21story. Yeah it's just you know actors like to read their lines so the I'm sorry Jen just saying it
1:45:28as like it is anyway the because she loves you Jen I just still love you glad to be in the room with
1:45:34you. The the there was a like a quick time event back in the pre-jobs time which was one of the
1:45:43most bizarre because it was like we're showing you quick time is like the future dude and it's like
1:45:48VR and and cool you know codex and it was so strange I still have like a note was this the
1:45:55event that you went to where you kind of said please stop inviting us to these events was that
1:46:00the one no there was the one right before the iMac which I don't even remember it was so not memorable
1:46:05but there was something that was like let us tell you about our products that you already know about
1:46:09and we're like okay stop inviting us and then the next event was the iMac and one person went
1:46:14because we're like you fooled me once shame on me fool me twice shame on you and then it was the
1:46:18iMac and we're like oh and I've been to every Apple event since that it was shame on us after all
1:46:23yeah turns out Steve Jobs actually had something but the previous event was nothing and in the jobs
1:46:27era I would say there was that Macworld Expo New York event where they obviously had a product that
1:46:34fell out and so they brought like who was it John Rubenstein maybe Avi Tavanian they brought
1:46:43somebody out to like explain how processors work and like the megahertz myth and why G4s were better
1:46:50than Intel processors and it was like time stopped that was I mean was that weird or just bad I don't
1:46:57know it was super weird that they were doing it there is a part of Jason still in that room I am
1:47:02still at the Javits Center listening to Avi Tavanian talk about the processor cycles or was
1:47:08it John Rubenstein or both or none or a strange fusion of both of them that was inside a processor
1:47:14inside an Intel bunny suit by the way somebody asked if the guy who was demoing Apple News was
1:47:18the first person on stage at an Apple event wearing a jumpsuit and my immediate response was
1:47:26it depends on if you count the Intel bunny suit because I think there was a guy in an
1:47:30Intel bunny suit on stage at some point and then and then the last Macworld Expo keynote which was
1:47:36Phil Schiller I think they didn't have anything to announce specifically and it was weird because
1:47:41it was like a Steve Jobs keynote without Steve Jobs which during that era didn't happen but it
1:47:47was like you know you don't get Steve Jobs you just get Phil here he is and you know Phil's fine
1:47:52but it was very much like nope don't nobody come nobody come we're leaving this show nobody come
1:47:59so there have been other weird Apple events and I agree with you Myke this was actually more normal
1:48:04than I thought it would be and finally today Myke not me asks will I be able to stream iTunes
1:48:10content to my Roku when the TV app launches and I think yes that's the that's the point so like the
1:48:15TV app will have access to your iTunes content because I think that's where it's all going to be
1:48:21they said they were acting they were adding the entire iTunes movie library to the TV app so
1:48:26basically all the iTunes media stuff should be in the TV app because it's all going away
1:48:31iTunes is coming away this is where you're going to buy it from like you you will be at you can buy
1:48:37in the TV app now which you couldn't do before you have to go out to iTunes but that's coming in the
1:48:42tv OS update like this is the screenshots on Apple's website you just buy and rent right in
1:48:46the TV app real-time follow-up from Zach in the chat room it was Rubenstein Jason it was Rubenstein
1:48:53okay Avi Tavaniyan's ghost was walking through the down the down the middle of the aisles trying to
1:49:00Vainian still very much alive well it was his Apple employee ghost is what it was yes John
1:49:06Rubenstein would like to tell you about these there's little animations of little like commands
1:49:12being sent into the processors and parallel and risk and and yeah part of my soul remains there
1:49:20we did it Jason Snow that was the service that was the services event yeah I guess you could
1:49:26say that this podcast is a service that we provide I would agree with you and if you would like to
1:49:32read about those service relay.fm/upgrades/238 for information about this episode including
1:49:38show notes and hopefully your podcast app of choice will have show notes in it
1:49:41I am sure Jason will have many articles that he will be panning about today's information
1:49:45go to sixcolors.com and you'll be able to read those there Jason is also on twitter he's @jsnw
1:49:51J S N E L L I'm @imyke I did this before and I did it again on Instagram I kind of publish what
1:50:01it's like to be Myke on a day like today and I'm going to create like an Instagram highlight so if
1:50:06you want if you are at all interested what it is like to be Myke Hurley on a day like this
1:50:11trying to kind of wrangle all the information and get ready to record upgrade very late in the
1:50:16evening I will have a link in the show notes where you can go and see what that's like on my
1:50:20Instagram page so that's my version of live blogging like what is Myke doing today that's
1:50:26that's kind of all I have Jason Mann's the bleed six colors is that is that is it six colors events
1:50:32right is the six colors event twitter account for life yeah I don't want to pollute everybody's
1:50:36twitter account if they don't want it yeah that's what that's what that's what Jason's doing and I'm
1:50:41just posting on my Instagram stories so you know so to each their own really I think Jason's work
1:50:47is a bit more important than mine but but it's okay we made it we made it through Jason Snell
1:50:52I want to thank everyone Simple Contacts, Bombast, TextExpander and Luna Display for their support of
1:50:57this show and most of all I want to thank you for tuning in and we'll be back next time until then
1:51:02say goodbye Jason Snell goodbye plus Myke goodbye plus