238: The Future of TV Was Apps


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:08   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade Episode 238, and today's show is brought to you by Text Expander from Smile,

00:00:16   Luna Display, Bombass, and Simple Contact. My name is Myke Hurley, and I am joined by Mr. Jason Snell. Hi, Jason Snell.

00:00:24   Hello, Mr. Myke Hurley.

00:00:26   Big show today.

00:00:27   Big show, Apple Event. You know, it doesn't get any bigger.

00:00:31   It doesn't get... Well, the September event is a little bit bigger, but this one has a lot of information which we're gonna do our best.

00:00:37   I mean, the sort of genre of the type of show that it is doesn't get any bigger, but yeah, you're right, you're right.

00:00:41   We're gonna do our very best to break down the information today, but it must start...

00:00:46   We don't even have time for Snell Talk this week because we must start with our draft results. Draft results.

00:00:52   Yes.

00:00:53   They get rid of Snell Talk in a week like this.

00:00:55   Okay.

00:00:55   So in case you didn't hear on our last episode, which by the way, I was really proud of the way our last episode came out,

00:01:02   and I hope that we have some new upgrade-ians out there in the audience who may have come from last week's episode.

00:01:07   That'd be great.

00:01:08   But if you did miss it, then we did a draft in which we tried to pick what we thought was gonna happen during the event.

00:01:15   And I've scored it, you have scored it. I think it's pretty clear-cut that you took this one.

00:01:20   Yeah.

00:01:21   But I still want to go through it anyway.

00:01:25   Mm-hmm.

00:01:26   So the video streaming service, neither of us got the name. You thought Apple TV, I thought Apple Video. You were close.

00:01:33   Yeah, I left this unscored because I thought that if it was a very, very, very close thing, I would make an argument that, you know,

00:01:41   really I just missed a bit of punctuation. But I don't need the point, so fine.

00:01:47   What would a services bundle be called? Let's just skip that one for the moment.

00:01:51   I wonder.

00:01:51   [laughter]

00:01:52   Imagine.

00:01:53   I'm still wondering.

00:01:54   Then you pick the four following things. News launches by the end of April. You get a point.

00:02:00   Apple will offer subscriptions to other video services. You get a point. Video game service unveiled. You get a point.

00:02:06   Video service costs more than $10 a month. Again, we'll come back to that in a minute because we don't know.

00:02:11   We don't know.

00:02:11   And then we move over to mine. Services bundle unveiled. Womp womp.

00:02:15   Apple to have video content that they did not make available for free to subscribers. Again, we just don't know.

00:02:21   But we didn't get that information today. Video service launches in the US only. That was not true.

00:02:27   And Apple credit card. I got that point.

00:02:30   Yay!

00:02:31   Then I think, personally, we should give a round of applause to each other for the full point-scoring celebrity round.

00:02:39   Yeah, we got all the celebrities right.

00:02:41   All the great celebrities. Oprah, Spielberg, Sara Barry Alice, and Reese the Littlest Spoon, J.J. Abrams,

00:02:47   Sesame Workshop. That is a full point-scoring round.

00:02:51   I realize now that I should have made you choose a Muppet, but I didn't.

00:02:55   I would have gone with Big Bird anyway because it's like the only real one that I know.

00:02:58   Fine, fine, yes. But you get that. You get that. You know, we, it turns out we could have done more rounds of that

00:03:02   because there were lots of celebrities on stage, but we got, we got it. We got all of them.

00:03:07   I would say, though, we applied the same thinking to the trailers round and that ended up also doing a pretty decent job.

00:03:13   So for you, you definitely got C. We know that much because we could see Jason Momoa.

00:03:19   Um, because they showed like a little video package.

00:03:21   I'm assuming the one of the more sci-fi series was the space stuff that we saw.

00:03:26   Not only the moon landing, but there was like a guy looking at a newspaper that said that, that the Russians landed on the moon,

00:03:32   which is, that's the premise of that show is that the space race continues.

00:03:35   Um, and there was a quick, uh, Snoopy thing in the sizzle reel too.

00:03:40   Yeah, that was like, that was like an image. I mean, I was kind of like willing to get that one, but it was, it was less than,

00:03:45   because they had a bunch of photos.

00:03:47   Yeah, I almost suggested that we not score the trailer round because none of these individual pieces of content got it their own trailer.

00:03:55   They were just in the sizzle reel, but we could also score it. I don't think it changes the overall outcome.

00:03:59   We did, we did say that we'd, but anyway, so I know that the Morning Show drama was in there.

00:04:03   And again, unfortunately, Little America could have been featured, but it just couldn't be identified.

00:04:07   I am certain that Little America is in there. There is a picture of a girl wearing a hijab riding her bike down the street.

00:04:14   I am, I cannot imagine that that is not Little America.

00:04:18   It could have been that movie they signed at Sundance, but anyway.

00:04:21   Could be, but I just, I would, I would give you that one. And there's no Oprah content because, uh, there isn't any.

00:04:25   Yeah, then we're gonna go with 9-6 for the score.

00:04:29   Uh, the tiebreaker question, um, didn't long leave a white, no, I thought they were black shoes. They look black to me.

00:04:35   Well, they might have been. We might need closer, um, analysis from our shoe correspondent.

00:04:40   But it was, it was a dark gray or black sneaker with a big white sole all the way around.

00:04:48   And I picked white, but you, you know, and you picked dark gray. So I think I would probably go with you in terms of the tiebreaker.

00:04:55   Although it's as close to a tie as you could possibly get on that, but it doesn't matter because I won.

00:05:00   You did win.

00:05:00   So in the end, I got this one.

00:05:02   One of those classic situations in the draft for me where I bet heavy on a thing that we all thought was going to happen, but just didn't come true.

00:05:10   Mm-hmm.

00:05:11   So 9-6 wasn't too bad. I thought for a while it was going to be real bad, but then the celebrity round, uh, paid off for me. So I've got some points in there.

00:05:20   So Bravo, Jason, you pick up the first win of the year.

00:05:23   Excellent. Excellent. I'm happy about it.

00:05:26   Should we just call it right there? This is the most important thing of the episode. Oh, no, it isn't. We're actually going to go...

00:05:30   Not even close.

00:05:31   ...straight into talking about this stuff. Um, I've, I've actually ordered this stuff, I think, in a non-chronological order because I think it would be more interesting to talk about this way.

00:05:42   Um, and I want to start with the Apple TV.

00:05:45   Okay.

00:05:46   The Apple TV app has been completely redesigned, uh, is what they said. It looks very different. There's definitely some different focus in different areas.

00:05:55   Um, a lot of the features that we're used to are still there. You know, they kind of pitched them as if they were new, but they weren't. So, like, iTunes content's there.

00:06:03   Single sign-on content is there, and content from other streaming providers is there.

00:06:07   Uh, but were you surprised about the amount of focus the TV app itself got, including, clearly, some overhaul?

00:06:15   I'm not. Um, this is a big part of the strategy here, right? If they're going to roll out a new service and these new channels, which we've been saying are, like, we'll call them channels because they're like Amazon Prime channels. They literally are calling them channels.

00:06:30   Yeah, Apple TV channels. We'll get to that.

00:06:32   There you go. That's what it is, because they're rebuilding the cable bundle inside the TV app, basically. Um, I'm not surprised because you have, there's work to be done, right? The TV app isn't great.

00:06:41   And let's not forget, the TV app comes from the era where the future of TV was apps. And as we learned today, the future of TV is channels inside the Apple TV app, which is a very different take on this.

00:06:53   And so while it's going to continue to have, like, external apps show data inside the TV app, like, like some apps do now, like Hulu and Amazon, it's also going to have this scenario where they will sell you a service and it shows up inside the app kind of natively as if it's part of Apple's own stuff.

00:07:16   And then they're also rolling in more of the iTunes content because they do, and this has been clear unofficially for the last year or two at least, that this is, the TV app is this big bag that holds all video content for Apple going forward.

00:07:31   And so, yeah, they got to redesign it because, and it looked good. But I tried to say when I was live tweeting this, I tried to say it looks good in the demo because of course it does.

00:07:43   And it looks like they've addressed some of the issues. At the same time, I did get the sense at one point, like, they were scrolling endlessly down a page.

00:07:51   And I thought, is that going to be any good?

00:07:53   It's like, oh, look, you've just stumbled upon a new way to have the fundamental issue of the TV app, which is just infinite scrolling, which is not nice to use on that remote.

00:08:02   I mean, Netflix does this too. The amount of content in any of these things that's cataloging all the video services is difficult.

00:08:09   But I think Apple's vision here is that basically if you're on, any show but Netflix is going to all roll kind of into this TV app, whether it's from Apple or from one of these other providers.

00:08:20   And, you know, that's what they're going with. But the truth will be when we actually try to use it because it could be a mess depending on what's in there and what's not.

00:08:28   And some of that has to do, like, they were demoing an ideal situation where I think the woman who was doing the demo said something about like, oh, I'm on Charter Cable.

00:08:37   So I have this thing. It's like, well, yes, that's a best case scenario while I'm on Xfinity personally.

00:08:42   And although they've got a really great iOS app, they won't let it on Apple TV because apparently that's a deal they want to extract something from Apple in order to do.

00:08:51   I don't even know. And so, you know, I don't have the best case scenario and lots of people won't have the best case scenario.

00:08:58   So we'll have to see.

00:08:59   I actually think you've stumbled upon what I actually think that the introduction of Apple TV channels was the weakest part of this presentation.

00:09:07   Because it's just what Amazon's doing is what it appears to be.

00:09:13   In that you can pay Apple to provide you with content from other providers, content like companies like HBO, CBS, All Access and Showtime.

00:09:22   Starz is in there as well. But that's about as good as the lineup gets.

00:09:26   The list is not very deep. It's not that massively impressive, in my opinion.

00:09:31   They were talking about the ability to offer this stuff outside of the US at some point, but they didn't really give any information on what that's going to look like.

00:09:38   Like what kind of channels am I going to get?

00:09:40   It's probably not going to be an incredible list, probably similar to what Amazon has.

00:09:45   But a lot of the talk again, and this is the thing that me and you've been talking about for a while, where a lot of the reporting on the rumors of this was like the Apple's about to do this amazing thing here.

00:09:55   But we have been talking, as many listeners of this show will know, for upstream over months and months in the past.

00:10:02   Apple probably wasn't going to do anything that wild here, and they kind of didn't.

00:10:06   Like it kind of met what we thought, which was they're not going to have, at least they're not showing right now, this heavily discount.

00:10:15   We're not seeing any of that. We're not seeing some way to put your own package together.

00:10:19   It's just you pick a channel, you pay for a channel, and that's about it.

00:10:22   It's Amazon channels, but within Apple's interface instead, which is not the worst thing in the world.

00:10:27   I think the big difference in this is that Apple, because they did offer that API, what, two years ago for the TV app, where they wanted, back when the future of TV was apps,

00:10:40   they built this API so that if you've got an app, you can share your watch data with Apple, and it'll become visible in the TV app.

00:10:46   And then it will basically go out to that app if it needs to jump to the episode or start playing or whatever.

00:10:54   And what that gets Apple is, as they showed quite prominently in a lot of the slides, things like Amazon Prime Video show up in the TV app, even though Prime Video is not a channel inside Apple.

00:11:07   Can you imagine? It's like channels within channels within channels.

00:11:10   You can't do it.

00:11:11   But it doesn't matter if you've got stuff in Prime Video because they're using the API and they are syncing with the TV API on Apple's platforms.

00:11:21   Amazon shows show up in the TV app.

00:11:24   So that's weird in the sense that there are going to be two ways you could see something in the TV app, from an external app or not.

00:11:30   But I think the bigger issue is that it also means Netflix has opted entirely out, and that exacerbates that situation even more.

00:11:43   Because now there's even more content in, and Netflix is really out because it's still all the way out.

00:11:48   It's not tied in.

00:11:49   And you can see why they wouldn't want to be, right?

00:11:50   Because they would be, all of their shows would be mixed in with everybody else's shows, and the recommendation engine would be for all sorts of different shows on any of the networks you subscribe to.

00:11:59   And Netflix doesn't want that.

00:12:00   Netflix wants to be the only place you ever think of going for video.

00:12:04   But I think that the Netflix problem, it exacerbates the issue that I find, which is if you're used to going away from the TV app for some of your content, would you not just keep going out of the TV app for all of your content?

00:12:18   Right?

00:12:18   Like that's kind of been my experience.

00:12:20   So like if I look at the stuff that I watch, right?

00:12:22   So a lot of Netflix, a lot of Amazon Prime and a lot of YouTube.

00:12:27   I never use the TV app for Prime because I'm using, you know, like I never think to do that.

00:12:33   Yeah, I would say my experience with Prime channels tells me that this is a good idea.

00:12:39   Because Prime channels is really convenient because it's all in one, it's in the Prime app.

00:12:45   So doing Apple TV channels similarly, if I've got the, you know, a whole bunch of stuff amalgamated together in one place so that I know I only need to check.

00:12:55   In this scenario, basically, I only need to check the TV app and Netflix.

00:13:00   And the rest of them I don't need to worry about.

00:13:01   I don't need to switch to other apps because the TV app and Netflix are the only two that really contain pretty much everything that I've got.

00:13:08   That's the advantage.

00:13:09   Well, tell me then about the channels.

00:13:11   Do you think that there is enough there to be compelling?

00:13:14   Well, I mean, it's just reselling channels.

00:13:16   I just don't think that anything is going to rise or fall based on the partnerships.

00:13:20   I suspect they have more or less, I mean, by launch time, will they have more or less the same partnerships that Amazon has?

00:13:25   Yeah, I imagine so.

00:13:27   I imagine they will resell everything that isn't either a giant of streaming or is a direct competition to Apple.

00:13:39   And if I were, again, if I were Netflix, I'd probably do exactly what Netflix is doing.

00:13:44   But if I'm BritBox or CBS All Access, I would be like, you know, yeah, integrate me, Apple, integrate me fully into your interface where my stuff is in there along with your other stuff.

00:13:58   And I'm just, you know, I'm part of the big package of all that content because it's more, you know, it's more subscribers, it's more money, it's easier, and it's providing access to those things.

00:14:09   And the channel concept is nice in that way.

00:14:11   So I imagine they'll get all of the partners that Amazon gets because those are the kinds of partners who benefit from that business model.

00:14:20   And then what they won't get is the ones like, you know, really like Netflix, where it just doesn't work.

00:14:25   Probably Disney, right?

00:14:26   I'm kind of up in the air about Disney.

00:14:29   I'm not sure about Disney, right?

00:14:31   Like, I feel like I go backwards and forwards on it because they don't have the competitive advantage that some of the other companies need, right?

00:14:40   Like, they don't need to compete in the same way.

00:14:42   I'm really intrigued about it.

00:14:43   - They're not Netflix.

00:14:44   I mean, they're not Netflix, though, right?

00:14:45   They're competing with other people.

00:14:47   And the argument would be, I think with Disney, it comes completely down to what the terms of the arrangement are, you know, what percentage does Apple take and all of that.

00:14:54   Because the great advantage of Disney+ being in Apple TV and on Prime Video is, you know, it's a huge potential audience and these big stores basically are selling your product rather than making everybody go on the outside.

00:15:14   The disadvantage is now you're mixing with other stuff and you got to do some revenue sharing and that's not so great.

00:15:20   So the question is, you know, what are your designs?

00:15:23   Are your designs to be Netflix or not?

00:15:26   If you're Disney, think about where you want to be in five years and then think, well, does that Apple deal make sense with where I want to be in five years?

00:15:36   And maybe it does.

00:15:37   I mean, I'm kind of the opinion that unless you are Netflix, these channel deals are good because it's another place for you to sell your stuff.

00:15:47   And the more you're in front of people, the better.

00:15:50   Like I use CBS All Access more in Prime than I did when it was its own app.

00:15:57   Because I was only purposefully going there for Star Trek before.

00:16:03   And this year I see it in my Prime Video with a bunch of other stuff when I'm thinking, oh, I'm going to watch a show, what do I have?

00:16:09   And then all the CBS stuff is just integrated in there.

00:16:12   And that's really good.

00:16:13   So if you can imagine, you talk about that on the Apple TV.

00:16:16   Like you throw in CBS, you throw in BritBox, you throw in Showtime, HBO.

00:16:23   And yes, you are rebuilding the cable bundle.

00:16:25   But you've got the convenience of the fact that all of that content is just kind of there and you can find it and you can see it.

00:16:32   And you don't have to worry about where it's coming from.

00:16:35   Which I think from a consumer standpoint is the ideal, which is not to worry about what channel a show is on.

00:16:41   Just find the show and watch it.

00:16:45   So I don't know.

00:16:46   I think it's not the ultimate solution, but I think it's good.

00:16:52   And I think it's good that Apple is doing it because Amazon is doing it and I think it's a good experience.

00:16:56   So I think it's good for Apple to replicate it.

00:16:58   Yeah.

00:16:59   So we don't have pricing.

00:17:01   No.

00:17:02   Well, this stuff's all going to be priced the way it's priced on Amazon.

00:17:05   I mean, I really think like if you were wondering how Apple TV channels is going to work, just look at Amazon Prime channels.

00:17:10   It is the same, literally the same product.

00:17:14   So the new TV app is coming in May.

00:17:17   I'm assuming that Apple TV channels comes in May as well.

00:17:20   Yeah, I assume so.

00:17:23   Yeah.

00:17:23   That they'll start selling those within the Apple TV app then.

00:17:28   Yeah, that sort of makes sense.

00:17:30   Crazy speculation time.

00:17:31   It's our favorite segment here on Upgrade.

00:17:33   Crazy speculation time.

00:17:35   So a lot of the advertising copy on Apple's website is referencing to the TV app as the new home for iTunes content.

00:17:43   And it's calling it like your movies and your TV shows.

00:17:46   It's like the new home for that.

00:17:48   And I'm wondering, Jason, are we maybe seeing the breakup of iTunes?

00:17:52   And one of the reasons I will say this, that the TV app is coming to the Mac and they say in the fall, Marsapan, which I absolutely love.

00:18:02   Oh, in the fall for no reason it will appear on the Mac.

00:18:07   So I'm wondering, you know, maybe we have thought of the potential that what it will now take for iTunes to go away is for Apple Music to be its own app built on Marsapan.

00:18:20   Now Apple TV being its own Apple Marsapan.

00:18:23   That could be it, right?

00:18:24   And that iTunes as we know it becomes just the store like we have it on iOS.

00:18:29   It's just the name for the store.

00:18:32   Well, I think on the Mac the more likely scenario is that iTunes, the app will remain like a QuickTime player for a while in this weird limbo where you can download it or it's there because there's stuff that it does that other apps don't do.

00:18:44   And it's actually a really nice escape valve for Apple because they don't need to build something that mirrors all the features of iTunes.

00:18:50   They can just build the things that they want and say, well, if you really want to manage an iOS device, just use iTunes.

00:18:57   Fine. We don't care.

00:18:59   But yes, I think it's a strong implication.

00:19:01   It's not impossible that they might try to make it run on previous OS versions too.

00:19:08   I don't know quite whether there's some Marsapan stuff that they're going to put in the next version of macOS that they could also kind of package together and do in a Mojave update.

00:19:20   Probably not.

00:19:21   But I'm going to leave open the possibility of that just because the thing that does strike me as a little bit weird is if they say it's coming to the Mac in the fall.

00:19:27   But the only way you can get it is by updating to the new version of macOS.

00:19:31   But that may be it because it does feel very much like they're just going to take the TV app in Marsapan and run it on the Mac in the fall.

00:19:38   I can't think of any other reason why they'd wait for the fall for it.

00:19:42   Right.

00:19:43   That is surely got to be to do with something that is released in September, i.e. the next version of macOS.

00:19:47   The strong implication is that, yeah.

00:19:50   Especially because between now and then, more TVs.

00:19:54   So we'd previously heard Samsung was going to be getting the TV app, right?

00:19:57   That was clearly like Samsung got an exclusivity period because LG, Vizio and Sony are all getting it.

00:20:03   They were all announced with HomeKit support, which is coming out with 12.2 today.

00:20:10   But they're also going to get the TV app.

00:20:12   And as we have again been talking about over the last few weeks, Roku and Fire TV will be getting the Apple TV app.

00:20:21   Yeah, this is big.

00:20:23   That's the one that we predicted it.

00:20:25   There was a rumor about Roku.

00:20:26   I don't think I've heard a rumor about Amazon.

00:20:29   But the moment that they said we're going to be on those smart TVs, then I made a couple assumptions.

00:20:38   And we talked about it on this show.

00:20:39   One is when they said iTunes was going to be on Samsung.

00:20:42   I was like, well, that'll be the TV.

00:20:44   Yeah, we know what that means.

00:20:45   We knew the iTunes app was never going to actually exist on this TV.

00:20:49   And a bunch of people said, no, it's just going to be AirPlay.

00:20:52   And I was like, no, I don't think so.

00:20:54   And then today you heard them say, oh, yeah, the TV app is going to be on the Samsung TVs soon.

00:20:59   Because this is the Trojan horse.

00:21:01   They were really going to launch with the TV app and not just an Apple Music app or something.

00:21:07   And it's going to come to these other TV providers.

00:21:10   And I was like, oh, my TV provider isn't on the list.

00:21:14   But that's OK, because my TV is a Roku TV.

00:21:15   And it was on the next slide, which is the Roku and Amazon Fire TV.

00:21:20   Which means, yes, if you're somebody who's intrigued by the TV content that Apple is going to be providing in the fall,

00:21:26   you'll be able to get it on an HDTV in your house for under $50.

00:21:31   The one I bought, the Roku I bought for my mom does $1080.

00:21:35   And it was $29.

00:21:37   And I think there's $49.

00:21:38   You can get a 4K of the Roku or the Amazon or both.

00:21:42   Like, if all you've ever been thinking about are Apple TVs, whoo, well, these other ones are a lot cheaper.

00:21:50   The 4K Fire TV stick is $50.

00:21:53   Yeah, see?

00:21:54   And they do like $30 or $40 for the non-4K one.

00:21:57   Yeah, so it's just a done deal.

00:21:59   And this is the answer to that question that we thought we knew in January, which is basically,

00:22:03   Apple's not investing all this money in all these shows with all these stars

00:22:07   in order to sell you an Apple TV.

00:22:09   That's not the point.

00:22:10   And we have seen it now.

00:22:12   The Apple TV will, I think, continue to exist as a product,

00:22:16   because it is now like the HomePod, a kind of a premium product.

00:22:20   But it's not also a barrier in order to get you to qualify to use a portion of Apple's ecosystem.

00:22:30   That's not what it's for.

00:22:31   They may have found a new life for the old Apple TV with Apple Arcade,

00:22:35   which we'll talk about later on in the show.

00:22:37   But they've referenced Apple TV when talking about where these games are going to show up.

00:22:42   That's true.

00:22:43   That's true.

00:22:43   That is like they're actually finally maybe trying to make it more of a gaming box.

00:22:47   Yeah, every two years or so, we hear about Apple trying to make the Apple TV do games.

00:22:52   So here we are.

00:22:53   The old Apple TV is now called the Apple TV HD.

00:22:57   Oh, okay.

00:22:59   Because the Apple TV is now a product that exists, right?

00:23:03   Because it's now available outside of the Apple TV.

00:23:06   So they've had to change the name of the old Apple TV to Apple TV HD,

00:23:11   because Apple TV, the app, now is like it has top level navigation on the TV page on Apple's website.

00:23:17   So it's Apple TV HD and then Apple TV 4K.

00:23:20   Yes.

00:23:21   And then Apple TV Plus is the product and Apple TV is the app.

00:23:27   Yes, that can exist in other places.

00:23:29   Yep.

00:23:29   Well, I missed the punctuation, but I do feel like this had to be the name of it, right?

00:23:34   It's just so straightforward.

00:23:35   It's Apple TV.

00:23:36   That's what it is.

00:23:37   So it's Apple TV.

00:23:37   Apple TV is the app, including the channels inside the app.

00:23:41   And then TV Plus is the Apple service that is ladled on top,

00:23:44   which is nicely parallel with the news service that they announced today too.

00:23:51   Yeah.

00:23:51   Before we get into Apple TV Plus,

00:23:53   is there anything more you wanted to talk about with the TV app?

00:23:56   You know, I want to try it.

00:23:58   And I dread that because, again, it's all about the details.

00:24:01   And it's also unfortunately about some of the partnership stuff.

00:24:05   And I think if you've got a cable company that is partnering with Apple on this,

00:24:08   you're going to have a better experience.

00:24:09   But if your streaming services are either using the TV API or are an Apple TV channel,

00:24:16   I think it has the potential to be a pretty decent service.

00:24:20   But again, you got to use it, right?

00:24:23   Because it could be that you use it and your reaction is, "Oh, no, this is not.

00:24:27   This doesn't make sense."

00:24:28   And there's just no way to tell from a canned demo.

00:24:32   But otherwise, I would say, I think this is what they had to do, right?

00:24:39   Like, I think that the Amazon Prime Channels thing is a good idea.

00:24:44   If you're a major player and a platform,

00:24:48   having the ability to roll these smaller services inside of your ecosystem is a good thing.

00:24:55   And I actually think it's a good thing for everybody.

00:24:58   I can't speak to the business model between the services that are being resold

00:25:02   and the big guys like Apple and Amazon.

00:25:04   Maybe it's desperation or maybe it's a good deal for them too.

00:25:07   I would like to think it's a good deal for them just because of the promotion

00:25:10   they get inside these apps because Apple and Amazon are motivated to sell channels.

00:25:17   And for consumers, I think it's actually a great deal because, you know, quite frankly,

00:25:21   if I never have to launch the CBS All Access app again,

00:25:27   it'll be too soon.

00:25:29   It's like, I have loved not having to launch that app or deal with their infrastructure

00:25:34   and just deal with Amazon.

00:25:36   And Amazon has been rock solid for that.

00:25:38   And I love that that service, and when I've had BritBox inside Prime Channels,

00:25:43   the same deal, like it's so much nicer to reduce the number of apps

00:25:46   that I have to use to find what I want to watch.

00:25:48   So I think Apple had to do it, and I think it will ultimately be good for everybody,

00:25:52   assuming that they executed right.

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00:27:54   Apple TV Plus.

00:27:57   Is this why the phones are called Max?

00:27:59   Maybe.

00:28:00   I think it might be.

00:28:02   It reduces some confusion.

00:28:03   Right, I feel like it would have been super weird if they would have had like multiple

00:28:07   products with plus in the name and some of them are written out P L U S and some of them just

00:28:11   have the plus sign.

00:28:12   Considering they at least tried to clear up some of the issues of Apple TV, right?

00:28:17   Like they don't they don't want too many things named exactly the same anymore.

00:28:21   The opening was was really cool.

00:28:24   They had like a bunch of like that that we should mention that a really nice kind of

00:28:27   opening credit sequence video at the start of the presentation.

00:28:30   That was nice, but I did notice something, Jason.

00:28:32   I want to see what you think about this when they kind of showed off the Apple TV Plus.

00:28:36   They had like this clouds and this little sound played, which sounded like a modified

00:28:40   kind of startup sound for like a Mac or something.

00:28:43   Do you think this will be Apple's network stinger?

00:28:46   I don't know anything about it.

00:28:47   I don't know if I even noticed that.

00:28:49   So I have no comment on that.

00:28:50   I'm going to see if I can try and grab the audio and put it into the show so people can

00:28:54   hear it for themselves.

00:28:55   But there was like this nice little chime.

00:28:56   I was like, oh, I wonder if that's their version of the HBO thing, you know?

00:29:04   So they timbrel out Zach van Amburg and Jamie Ehrlich to say, I was pleased about actually

00:29:10   because I figured that these should be the people right.

00:29:14   They are the TV people.

00:29:15   They should be the people that introduced this part of the presentation.

00:29:19   Was this a welcome surprise for you?

00:29:20   I'm not surprised.

00:29:22   I thought that they were the ideal candidates to this because Apple hired them June 2017,

00:29:28   by the way.

00:29:29   Not quite.

00:29:29   It's 21 months ago they hired them.

00:29:31   They announced that they hired these guys.

00:29:33   So this has been in the works for a very long time.

00:29:37   And so for them to be able to push it across the finish line, I think was only appropriate.

00:29:41   This is this part of the event is very much this weird hybrid of an Apple event and a

00:29:48   television industry, like something like an upfront or a television critic associations

00:29:53   tour kind of thing where it's a dog and pony show for networks.

00:29:59   And this was kind of that.

00:30:01   This was like Apple saying, we can use our power as a company that calls these events

00:30:06   to do our own dog and pony show about our new stuff.

00:30:10   And these guys have been running it and living it for a year and a half.

00:30:14   And so I thought that was, I thought it was only appropriate for them to do it.

00:30:18   Now, the way they did it is fascinating because what they didn't do is what we assumed, which

00:30:24   was that people would come out and there would be trailers.

00:30:27   And instead, what we got is people came out and talked about what the content of their

00:30:32   show was and why it was important.

00:30:34   And and showed kind of like a, there was like a backdrop and they actually had projectors

00:30:40   that were projecting it onto the side.

00:30:42   That's how they did that.

00:30:43   Theater.

00:30:44   Okay.

00:30:45   So it was almost like kind of a wraparound thing in the theater itself that up the sides

00:30:51   on these little slats of the walls of the interior was from a projection in the back

00:31:00   as far as I could tell.

00:31:00   But showing like a still.

00:31:03   But that was it.

00:31:04   And then they talked about it and that was the whole thing.

00:31:08   And then we got the brief sizzle reel at the end.

00:31:10   And I think partly that was because Apple wanted to show off the people and put the

00:31:16   people, you know, who are mostly the stars of these shows at the center.

00:31:20   But it is interesting that they that they didn't do anything but a sizzle reel.

00:31:27   I have some theories about that.

00:31:28   I feel like this isn't coming out until the fall, which was one of the rumors was that

00:31:33   it wouldn't the programs wouldn't actually be ready until the fall.

00:31:36   And that has proven to be true.

00:31:38   They didn't mention a price.

00:31:41   We don't have a lot of details about the rollout.

00:31:44   And I've seen some disappointment about that.

00:31:45   I'm a little disappointed because I always want to know whatever.

00:31:50   But I feel like the purpose of this was to was for Apple to explain what this was and

00:31:59   give it its branding, explain where it fits and what Apple is doing and show off the people

00:32:05   that it and that they value the creative people, right, which is some of these stories that

00:32:09   have come out.

00:32:10   It's like, oh, what does Apple feel?

00:32:11   And this was Apple basically saying and sending a message to the entertainment industry saying,

00:32:15   here's what it is.

00:32:16   Here's what it's called.

00:32:17   We love you.

00:32:19   You're storytellers and we think you're the best.

00:32:22   The story was starting to get out of control for them for many reasons.

00:32:25   One for the rumors and two just because they're continuing to sign more and more content whilst

00:32:30   never acknowledging that they were actually doing anything.

00:32:32   And the tenor of the industry pieces and some of the larger like Wall Street Journal and

00:32:36   New York Times pieces about this has become, well, more negative.

00:32:41   But when I read through the line between the lines of them, I kept thinking there's a lot

00:32:45   of people in Hollywood who are just frustrated that this is not a this is not a thing that's

00:32:49   been announced yet and they want to know more.

00:32:51   And that is you can roll your eyes at that.

00:32:55   And I certainly did a little bit.

00:32:56   But at the same time, those are the people who you have to work with to make these shows.

00:33:00   Yeah, you can't completely come in as Apple and do things only your way.

00:33:04   Like they have to play ball a little bit with the industry at large.

00:33:08   And this is part of that.

00:33:09   So this and this so they show their appreciation.

00:33:12   They're kind of bending the knee to the greatness of Hollywood storytellers.

00:33:17   And it's Zack and Jamie on stage doing that because they're the ones who are making the

00:33:20   deals.

00:33:20   And it gives them everybody knows what it is now.

00:33:25   It's Apple TV Plus.

00:33:26   Here are some of the people involved.

00:33:28   It's coming this fall.

00:33:29   Here's what the interface looks like with the Apple TV shows in it.

00:33:33   This is how it's going to work.

00:33:35   And yeah, there are details missing.

00:33:38   But if I'm a Hollywood person who is frustrated that it's all like I've been working for two

00:33:46   years on something that nobody even knows about, you know, maybe you're not Jennifer Aniston.

00:33:51   And if you are Hi, Jen.

00:33:52   Hi.

00:33:53   It was nice to be in the room with you today.

00:33:55   If you're not Jennifer Aniston, at least you know the circles in which you're moving the

00:34:00   product you're working on.

00:34:01   You can tell your friends.

00:34:03   Yes, I am working on a thing for that Apple TV Plus thing that launches this fall.

00:34:07   It's out the you know, it's it's out in the world now.

00:34:12   And and while if you're a an Apple follower and you're frustrated because you were just

00:34:16   trying to see what the price was, I hear you.

00:34:19   I don't think it was for you.

00:34:21   I think this was Apple setting the table.

00:34:22   There is a second event coming, which will be the iPhone event when this will all be

00:34:27   announced and shut off and they'll talk about pricing and like that's when we'll get our

00:34:30   trailers.

00:34:31   So OK, so here's the thing.

00:34:32   It wouldn't surprise me if they launch this or announce the launch date at the iPhone

00:34:35   event.

00:34:36   Here's the thing.

00:34:37   Now that the sizzle reel is out, now that they've launched, they've unveiled whatever

00:34:42   you want to call it, they've announced the name and the stars and some of the names of

00:34:47   the shows and all of that.

00:34:48   Apple is now free to roll out trailers whenever the heck they want.

00:34:51   Yeah.

00:34:51   Good point.

00:34:52   Good point.

00:34:52   So they could drop a Jason Momoa C trailer in May and say, isn't this, you know, everybody

00:35:00   get excited about how amazing this is.

00:35:02   And in July they could drop a thing with Jennifer Aniston and Reese Witherspoon and Steve Carell

00:35:09   and be like, Oh my God, isn't this going to be fun?

00:35:11   And they can just keep on promoting that stuff.

00:35:14   They don't have to hold it.

00:35:15   They could hold it until a little bit closer to air, but they don't have to now.

00:35:18   All those rules are out the window because the product is now a real service.

00:35:23   Service is now a real thing, whatever it is.

00:35:25   It's a service that has been announced instead of being one of these coy, like we're very

00:35:29   excited about Oprah and we'll have more to share later.

00:35:33   Now it's like, okay, it's called Apple TV+.

00:35:35   It exists.

00:35:35   It's coming this fall.

00:35:36   That opens the door for all sorts of promotion at whatever time Apple wants.

00:35:39   You mentioned Jason Momoa.

00:35:44   He came out among many stars, came out on stage.

00:35:48   He came out with Alfre Woodard and they spoke about See.

00:35:51   Now, all we've really known about See is that it was a sci-fi show and it was probably the

00:35:56   most expensive TV show ever made.

00:35:57   But we found out like we did with many of these shows today, what they actually are.

00:36:04   Now I already had read that See was about a post-apocalyptic world where people can't see.

00:36:10   I haven't seen that one.

00:36:11   But there's, or at least even we, the very most, we had like real top line descriptions

00:36:17   for what they are, but the creators were able to talk about it a little bit more.

00:36:20   And I thought that this show, I'm excited about the show.

00:36:24   I love the idea.

00:36:25   I love the premise, right?

00:36:26   So the premise is that there was a virus that hit the earth and it killed many people.

00:36:31   It left like a few million people left, but all of those people couldn't see anymore.

00:36:35   So you're like, oh, that's the show is about them dealing with it.

00:36:37   But then they kind of twist it a bit where it's like many generations later, the world

00:36:42   is now kind of just adapted to the fact that people can't see.

00:36:45   The idea of sight is almost feels like a fable.

00:36:47   The show begins and like, I think that that is really interesting sounding.

00:36:52   Yeah.

00:36:53   It's and the funny thing about TV is this is why you have to do a lot of different shows

00:36:56   is that different shows are going to appeal to different people.

00:37:00   You know, I'm sure you already have understood that Stephen Hackett and I will both be right

00:37:07   there for that Ron Moore.

00:37:08   Oh, what's it called?

00:37:10   I wrote it down.

00:37:11   Anyway, it's the it's the space race one, right?

00:37:13   Because it's like, oh, space race, alternate history, space race.

00:37:17   It's great.

00:37:17   Sounds great to me too, though.

00:37:19   Like I will say that, like, especially everything they showed today, I want to watch all that.

00:37:23   For All Mankind, by the way, is the name of it.

00:37:25   For All Mankind.

00:37:25   Okay.

00:37:26   But like all of the shows that they that they put on stage today, I'm like, yeah, I would

00:37:30   try all of those.

00:37:31   Like the pitches for those shows sound exciting to me.

00:37:34   And some of them will be good and some of them will be bad.

00:37:36   Anthology shows, I have this theory, which is that anthology shows were big in the like

00:37:41   the 50s and 60s, but have decreased in popularity as time went by.

00:37:46   They basically died on network.

00:37:47   And the truth is that Black Mirror made anthology series hot again.

00:37:54   Like if I were if I were Steven Spielberg, I would send many notes of thanks to Charlie

00:38:01   Brooker for doing Black Mirror because everybody saw Black Mirror and was like, ooh, anthology

00:38:06   series, tell me more.

00:38:07   And my theory is that most people don't want to watch anthology series.

00:38:11   People like watching like shows with with the same actors and the same characters every

00:38:16   week.

00:38:17   And although with streaming, it's a little different.

00:38:19   It's like a bunch of mini movies kind of thing.

00:38:21   And Black Mirror has been successful.

00:38:22   But there are two of these Apple shows are anthology series, the Kumail Nanjiani Emily

00:38:28   Gordon show A Little America.

00:38:31   And of course, Amazing Stories with Mr. Spielberg, who doesn't want Netflix to win Oscars.

00:38:36   But this is TV, man.

00:38:37   This is Apple TV.

00:38:38   TV is fine.

00:38:39   It's not it's not getting any Oscars.

00:38:41   It's fine.

00:38:42   It's fine.

00:38:42   It can get all the Golden Globes at once or like all the Emmys.

00:38:46   Go for it.

00:38:47   Yeah, right.

00:38:47   So anyway, I think that's funny.

00:38:49   And I think that that is something I'm going to watch because I'm skeptical about the appetite

00:38:55   for anthology series.

00:38:57   And if you look, let's see, the replacement for Black Mirror when it moved networks was

00:39:03   the Philip K. Dick's Electric Dreams series that got canceled.

00:39:07   Twilight Zone on CBS All Access is Jordan Peele.

00:39:09   And that'll be great, except nobody will watch it because this is my prediction is nobody

00:39:13   watches anthology shows.

00:39:15   And Black Mirror has sold has made a lot of money for a lot of people to make anthology

00:39:18   shows that nobody will watch and will eventually fall off the network.

00:39:21   Doesn't mean they are not good.

00:39:22   And the Apple ones may be good, too.

00:39:25   But I feel like you already kind of gave a hint earlier, but being in the room of all

00:39:30   those celebrities, were there any like specific that stood out to you as you were just excited

00:39:34   to be in the same room as them?

00:39:35   Well, I mean, they're all down low in the in the good seats, right?

00:39:40   Where the pretty people are.

00:39:41   And then the press is up up high and from far away, you know, it's like, is that Tim Robbins?

00:39:46   I think it is Tim Robbins talking to Eddie Q.

00:39:48   I don't know.

00:39:49   Maybe, you know?

00:39:52   Yeah.

00:39:52   I so it's cool to see people I've seen so many famous people at in theaters at Apple

00:39:58   events that it's a it's a ridiculous list.

00:40:01   And I got a lot more of them.

00:40:02   You know, I don't think I've ever been in a room with JJ Abrams.

00:40:05   He did a WWDC thing that I didn't go to.

00:40:07   And yes, like I like as I spoke earlier to veteran upgrade Ian Jennifer Aniston.

00:40:14   You know, she's about my age.

00:40:16   I remember, you know, her being in Friends and all that.

00:40:19   And that was kind of fun to see that.

00:40:20   And a bunch of other famous people, Steven Spielberg, for Pete's sake.

00:40:24   I got to see Steven Spielberg in person.

00:40:26   That was pretty cool.

00:40:27   But, you know, it's it's fine.

00:40:31   I've seen you two a couple of times at Apple events, too.

00:40:33   And look how well that went.

00:40:34   So I think the overall slate of content is looking pretty interesting that, you know,

00:40:40   they they had like this is a real sort of like a bunch of stuff.

00:40:43   And it looks like from at least a production standpoint, they have a lot of shows that

00:40:47   look very pretty.

00:40:47   Oprah came out.

00:40:49   She was kind of like the one more thing type situation.

00:40:52   Right.

00:40:52   And she gave a really touching speech and they actually gave some information about what

00:40:56   she's working on.

00:40:57   So we knew it was like a big deal with Apple.

00:41:00   A lot of things they're working on together.

00:41:02   But she's working on two documentaries right now.

00:41:04   And it seems like some kind of video, like whether it's going to be in the TV service

00:41:10   or it's going to be a podcast, I'm not sure the book club that like the Oprah Book Club,

00:41:14   she wants to kind of put that into a billion pockets.

00:41:16   So she said, I really enjoyed her speech.

00:41:18   I thought it was very touching and very funny.

00:41:19   But yeah, so like that we we had assumed Oprah would would come out and Tim seemed very emotional

00:41:26   about Oprah.

00:41:27   He wiped away a tear.

00:41:28   He did.

00:41:29   He did.

00:41:30   Wiped away a tear for Oprah.

00:41:32   We knew.

00:41:33   I mean, that was the easiest one to call, right?

00:41:35   And in fact, when she wasn't in that original, the guy sitting next to me, I don't even know

00:41:39   who he was, was like, Oprah, Oprah, come on, Oprah, Oprah, Oprah.

00:41:43   And it was never Oprah, right?

00:41:44   It was always somebody else.

00:41:45   And then he was big brain.

00:41:48   And I'm sitting there going, okay, guy next to me.

00:41:51   I'm a little surprised too, that there's no Oprah yet.

00:41:54   And then there's like, oh, there's one other person.

00:41:56   I'm like, and I began writing my tweet at that point, saying that Oprah was on stage

00:42:01   because I knew that that was going to be there.

00:42:03   And that was indeed what it was.

00:42:05   So, you know, what they're using her for is also interesting because it's the, you know,

00:42:08   she's got a bunch of projects in the works that that was a good example of somebody who's

00:42:11   got an overall deal with Apple instead of somebody who has got a show on Apple.

00:42:17   Although I think Reese Witherspoon's company has sold like three shows, didn't we say last

00:42:21   week, three or four shows?

00:42:22   Her company, Hello Sunshine, has sold the most kind of like individual shows, but like

00:42:27   Oprah has a special deal, which is just like overarching all kinds of content, right?

00:42:32   Including like podcast.

00:42:33   Oprah's making content.

00:42:34   Yeah, just like that Obama deal with Netflix, right?

00:42:37   Exactly.

00:42:38   Oprah deal with Apple and she's got a documentary and a mini series doc and she's going to do

00:42:44   a book club, like with live conversation with the author and stuff, which I actually think

00:42:48   because Oprah's book club, for people who don't know, and people don't know Oprah very

00:42:51   well, Oprah's book club on her weekday show in the US when that was on was enormous, like

00:42:57   one of the greatest ways to sell a book ever.

00:43:00   And honestly, I think got people to read a book who'd never read books and it was a phenomenon.

00:43:05   And so the fact that she's kind of going to bring that back and use Apple as the platform,

00:43:09   I think could be very interesting depending on how they do it because the digital media

00:43:18   world might be a better fit for something like that because you could do little bits

00:43:23   about the book and talk to people who are reading it and she's going to do this apparently

00:43:28   like live conversation with the author, but that'll be available on demand.

00:43:32   And I kind of feel like it would be easy to say, oh, well, it's nice.

00:43:37   This is prestige stuff, but who's going to actually do it.

00:43:39   But I will say Oprah's book club was like an enormous thing.

00:43:44   And if they can do that right using the technology at hand for Apple, that could be a big deal.

00:43:51   - All right, should we move on to Apple news?

00:43:53   - Yeah, I think so.

00:43:55   I mean, we will have every opportunity to talk about Apple TV+ in the future since it's not

00:44:00   out yet.

00:44:00   - Coming later.

00:44:01   We don't know how much it costs.

00:44:02   We don't know if it's going to cost anything.

00:44:03   We don't know anything.

00:44:04   - Well, okay.

00:44:05   So I want to make a point there.

00:44:07   We do know that pricing is going to be announced in the fall and that it is a subscription

00:44:13   service, which to me, and again, I don't believe these reports that we've seen that said, oh,

00:44:19   they're just going to give it away and make the money up on channels because I don't think

00:44:21   that actually makes any sense at all.

00:44:23   - No, I don't either.

00:44:23   - I think you would have to be really far down a rabbit hole to believe that the press

00:44:29   release saying that pricing is going to be announced in the fall and that it's a

00:44:31   subscription service could mean that the pricing is nothing and that anybody can subscribe.

00:44:36   I just don't know.

00:44:37   It will have a price.

00:44:39   Pricing will be announced in the fall.

00:44:41   They're not going to give this stuff away.

00:44:42   - The real price is the bundle.

00:44:43   That's the real price.

00:44:44   - Probably.

00:44:45   If there is a bundle, that's probably it.

00:44:47   And then also, we'll see how they want to do the trial period because other stuff, Apple

00:44:55   Music had a trial period.

00:44:56   Apple News+ has a trial period.

00:44:58   So there's opportunity out there.

00:45:00   - One thing we do know though is it won't be US only.

00:45:03   It will be launching in over 100 countries at launch.

00:45:05   - Yeah, and that's because they signed all of their deals to have full worldwide rights

00:45:11   to their content.

00:45:12   - To which I sincerely thank Apple for making that happen because that was never a dead

00:45:18   cert in my mind.

00:45:18   So I'm very pleased that that's going to be the case.

00:45:20   All right, today's episode is also brought to you by Bombass.

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00:47:50   Thanks, Jason. I appreciate that.

00:47:52   You're welcome, Myke.

00:47:53   All right. So, should we move on to Apple News Plus?

00:47:56   Yeah, let's do it. This is the texture thing that Apple bought, which was the magazine service.

00:48:04   Now, the big difference here, and I thought very cleverly shown on stage by being demoed

00:48:10   on an iPhone, is what they're not trying to do is digital replicas where there's like,

00:48:17   "Hey, here's an iPad and we scanned in a page of a magazine and you can read it."

00:48:21   That's not what they're doing here.

00:48:23   They have worked with all these companies that publish these magazines to try and get

00:48:27   the content feeds out and then have them display in an attractive way but using the Apple News

00:48:32   format. And so, yes, you can read them on your iPad and they'll look nice, but you can read

00:48:37   them on your iPhone. And so, they've taken their deals, the texture made with the publishers,

00:48:41   they seem to have rolled those over. So, there's 3,000, I mean, 300 magazines in total.

00:48:46   That was a little slip up in the order of magnitude mistake by the presenter.

00:48:51   That's... And then also, and it's funny, I was watching my Twitter feed and like I was

00:48:58   literally watching people complain about things that hadn't been mentioned yet as they were being

00:49:01   mentioned multiple times in this event, including, "But what about newspapers?" And the answer is,

00:49:08   well, yes, the LA Times and the Wall Street Journal, so not the Washington Post, not the

00:49:14   New York Times, but the LA Times and the Wall Street Journal are in there. There are a bunch

00:49:18   of digital premium subscribers, like subscriptions like TechCrunch has their new premium tier,

00:49:23   and that's gonna be covered in here and other stuff like that is gonna be covered as a part

00:49:28   of this single subscription plan. And unlike so many of the things announced today, this is

00:49:33   basically pushing out with the next version of iOS and macOS with an updated news app and will be a

00:49:41   one-month free trial and it has a price of $9.99 and is also launching in Canada. And they've got

00:49:48   Canadian partners, including magazines and a large newspaper and in English and French. And then

00:49:56   we'll be rolling out in the UK and Australia pretty soon, like this fall. So this is a service

00:50:02   that is the furthest along of anything announced today, I think.

00:50:05   - Yeah, because it's out now, right? Like that makes it just naturally the furthest, right?

00:50:10   - It's pretty far along if it's actually been released. Yeah, I think so. But I think this is,

00:50:15   I'm fascinated because my guess is that this was not part of their original plan with news.

00:50:21   If it was, then good for them for having the foresight. But like the first step with news

00:50:26   was to get the news app out and try to make the news reading experience and the web reading

00:50:31   experience nicer by letting Apple control the app part of it. And then you just have to generate

00:50:37   content in a feed format, in RSS or an Apple News format. And then they hired, they started hiring

00:50:46   editorial people to curate and they built recommendation engines, which also I should say,

00:50:51   every single presentation today had at least a nod toward privacy, which was very interesting. And

00:50:59   that is something that Apple has just all in on now. Every product, it's like the Greenpeace

00:51:04   protests leading to the eco-friendly slide on every single product announcement Apple makes.

00:51:11   This is like that, where it's like there will always be a privacy mention in a product or

00:51:16   service. And so here, they revealed that your personalized news recommendations actually come

00:51:22   from a pool of recommendations that is dropped in your device. And then your device uses its

00:51:28   on-device analysis of your behavior to select out of that pool and show you stories. So Apple

00:51:34   doesn't know what you're reading, only your device does and it doesn't radio that back.

00:51:39   That is really interesting. And I didn't know that before. I'm not sure if they've shared that

00:51:43   before, but that is something that they kept hitting home about in terms of what their

00:51:49   commitment to privacy is. Do you think, I mean, they didn't say, but like, do you think that

00:51:53   they're maybe doing some iCloud-based sharing like they do with photo stuff? Because you could end up

00:51:57   with completely different recommendations device to device, right? Depending on what you're reading.

00:52:02   I don't know. I think I don't use Apple News enough to say, but I think maybe there is some

00:52:07   tracking of what you've read in your iCloud account. But I'm not 100% on that. I mean,

00:52:12   it would make sense that it is that way. It doesn't mean that they did it, but that would

00:52:16   make sense. And that would be something that would be locked to you and it wouldn't be Apple knowing

00:52:21   it, right? It would be your data syncing across devices. So it may do that. Anyway, so the next

00:52:26   step of this is there's still a lot of paywalled content out there and it's not in Apple News.

00:52:31   And they decided to buy the texture service because they wanted to go in this direction.

00:52:36   And I got to say, I think this is a pretty cool idea. I think $10 a month to unlock access to all

00:52:43   sorts of extra content could potentially be really good. It all comes down to the partners. Although

00:52:48   I will say as a Californian, having the LA Times is really good because that's a really good

00:52:56   newspaper. And in general, the Wall Street Journal, honestly, like $10 a month for the

00:53:04   Wall Street Journal alone is not a bad deal at all if it truly is the bulk of the content from

00:53:09   the journal. And there's some kind of question about exactly what is in there. Yeah. It doesn't

00:53:14   seem that there's a definitive answer yet. But that and then like Sports Illustrated and like

00:53:18   some of the other magazine partners, like it doesn't take a lot if you're somebody who likes

00:53:21   to read. It doesn't take a lot for the $10 a month to actually be a pretty good deal. Now,

00:53:27   it's not for everybody, obviously, but their point with 300 magazines was to say, there's probably

00:53:33   five or 10 magazines on here that speak directly to you. You're not going to, as they said,

00:53:39   humorously, now, if you subscribe to all 300 magazines, it would cost you $8,000 a year.

00:53:45   Nobody's going to do that. But you can burrow down into something that is like super interesting to

00:53:53   you. Maybe Rolling Stone is interesting to you or Sports Illustrated would be interesting to me. I

00:53:57   used to subscribe to that. There's a lot of opportunity here for this to be not for everybody,

00:54:02   but to be a good deal for a lot of people who like to read. So this felt to me a lot like another

00:54:09   attempt at newsstand, right? Like Apple's old service. Yeah, they even said, "Oh, we love a

00:54:15   newsstand." And they had a picture of a newsstand with, I looked, MacLife, because MacWorld is not

00:54:20   printed anymore, but MacLife is still done in print. And there was a MacLife issue right in

00:54:25   front of a Wired edition. I was like, "Yeah, they put a Mac magazine in there. It's great."

00:54:28   So they mentioned a newsstand and they showed the newsstand. And, you know, this is what

00:54:34   newsstand should have been. That's the tragedy of it is that newsstand should have been this,

00:54:39   you know, eight years ago. Newsstand should have been this. Newsstand should have been,

00:54:44   and Steve Jobs got carried away with a product demo and went in a totally different direction.

00:54:49   Newsstand should have been, "I am providing you with this player, basically, app, and here's a

00:54:59   spec. You put your content in this format and it will be viewable." And instead, what newsstand was,

00:55:06   was, "Hey, why doesn't everybody write an app, their own custom app?" Which was super expensive,

00:55:12   hard to do, led to a lot of bad apps, and ultimately was a failure. So this is very much

00:55:19   like newsstand except the right way. As somebody who went through that process with MacWorld,

00:55:25   let me tell you, boy, I wish this had been it. Because it would have been so easy to set up a

00:55:30   project saying, "We're going to do an Apple News export from MacWorld Magazine." You know, whether

00:55:37   our business people would have wanted to do the deal for the premium one, I don't know. But

00:55:42   it would have been a conversation and it would have been something that would have been within

00:55:48   our area of expertise. And instead, we spent a lot of money on an app developer for an app that was

00:55:55   okay. So, you know, it is nice to see Apple finally get there with this. Apple News is a

00:56:00   pretty decent vehicle for this. Apple News is not my favorite thing. I don't use it a lot,

00:56:06   but it has gotten better over time. And I think that putting custom or putting premium content

00:56:14   in it could potentially make it just that much more appealing. Yeah, it reminded me of newsstand

00:56:21   in a few ways, right? Like the bold layouts and the interactive elements and moving images and

00:56:25   automatic downloading and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, except they did it all with this Apple News

00:56:30   format stuff where you don't have to write an app. You just have to, they write the app and say,

00:56:34   "Here are the rich elements you can provide me," which is absolutely the right way to do it.

00:56:41   Yeah, I guess the other part of it, like, you know, we're not going to know,

00:56:49   when thinking about like, "Is this going to be a success?" It's like, "This is great for the

00:56:53   customer because you get a lot of option available to you for not a large amount of money, but what

00:56:59   is it going to be like for the publisher?" Like, we just, we don't know. And I think that that will

00:57:03   be the thing that ends up like, "Will this be newsstand failed attempt three, or is it going to be

00:57:09   a better, more long-lasting experience than that for more publishers?" We just don't know.

00:57:15   My gut feeling is that because this is something where there are deals happening behind the scenes,

00:57:19   that it is much more likely to be successful. There are already a lot of people using Apple News.

00:57:24   Because it's installed on every Apple device, there are a lot of people who use it. It's a

00:57:28   much friendlier approach than RSS was. As much as nerds love RSS, the fact is, regular people didn't

00:57:35   really ever get it. But that is basically what this is, is a glorified RSS kind of reader system.

00:57:43   And those deals behind the scenes can be adjusted. So if this, you know, Apple can drop its

00:57:49   percentage. Apple, you know, can make new deals based on what publishers are seeing.

00:57:54   Maybe some deals will fall out and others will come in. But I feel like it will, they've got

00:58:02   much more flexibility with something like this to kind of like keep adjusting it on the fly and

00:58:07   making sure that it works pretty well. If nobody ever uses it, then it'll be a flop. But I think

00:58:11   it will, I think it's got a good chance of succeeding at some level. Maybe not to the

00:58:16   wildest dreams of some of the publishers, but I think it's got a shot. And I am somebody who has

00:58:21   kind of been skeptical about this thing. I think it's got a shot at success. Is this a product that

00:58:26   Jason Snow wants in his life? I will seriously consider it. I have a lot of things to read,

00:58:31   but I would seriously consider it because like I said, I think it's a pretty good deal. Just for

00:58:35   the LA Times and Wall Street Journal and, you know, some of those magazines alone, I will

00:58:41   seriously consider it. Yeah. Yeah. See, this isn't going to be my thing, right? I don't think,

00:58:46   unless, you know, like I pay for the Wall Street Journal because I get great use in my work out of

00:58:52   the articles that they write. But if, for example, it was the full Wall Street Journal experience

00:59:00   that I currently have available to me and/or it's just the things that I want, which is mostly the

00:59:04   tech coverage, then I would switch over to Apple News because it would be saving me money because

00:59:09   the Wall Street Journal is already more expensive than $10 a month. It's like $25 or $30 a month.

00:59:14   So, you know, there could be something in it there for me, but I don't know. I don't know. I don't

00:59:21   know if it's something that I particularly would want in my life. All right. Should we take another

00:59:29   break and then move on to Apple Arcade and Apple Card? Fantastic idea. All right. Today's episode

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01:01:39   Relay FM. Apple Arcade. This is... This is... Going on down to the Apple Arcade. Let me just say something

01:01:49   about the naming of these... Of this whole thing. You know, Apple confuses me with their naming,

01:01:55   right? Because like, why is... Why do we have Apple TV Plus? We have Apple News Plus.

01:02:01   Why do we have Apple Arcade? Like, how did that happen in the lineup of looking at their services?

01:02:09   I prefer the name Apple Arcade to Apple News Plus and Apple TV Plus, but it's like, "Ah, you're going

01:02:15   down a route." No, you're not. You've gone off on the left field here and we now have Apple Arcade.

01:02:21   What else would they call it? Apple Games Plus? Yeah, why not though? It's called News Plus and

01:02:25   TV Plus. Like, they're just as bad names, but there's like a consistency, right?

01:02:30   Yeah, well, this is a better name. I like this name. This is adorable.

01:02:34   Trust me. Because it's fun, Myke. That's why. No, it's a way better name.

01:02:37   Because it's fun. It's a game. It's fun. Okay. TV is serious business, Myke.

01:02:41   News is serious business. But games... And Ty, Senior Vice President of the App

01:02:46   Store, came out to talk about this and she said a phrase that I loved, "Competing with free is hard."

01:02:51   Yeah, this is basically the mea culpa on how distorted... I mean, they didn't say it this way.

01:02:55   They're like, "Hey, free-to-play games. Everybody loves them. They make lots of money and they make

01:02:59   lots of money for us because we take our cut and you do in-app purchases and it's great. Everybody

01:03:04   loves them." But what of the other games? Our system is broken and they are not as successful

01:03:11   as they should be. And so Apple has basically created a separate business model that is not

01:03:18   purchasing games. It's not free with in-app purchase. It's not purchasing games. It is

01:03:26   subscription service where they apparently are helping fund games and publishing them

01:03:36   and they're exclusive to this service. Fascinating. So yeah, the publishing part is one of the things

01:03:43   that is most important. And I have some stuff that I want to get to about that in a minute.

01:03:47   But this is a hundred games that Apple are claiming some level of exclusivity over as part

01:03:54   of this game subscription service. Right, mobile exclusivity and service exclusivity. It doesn't

01:03:59   mean that they might not sell it on a console. Exactly, because there was a specific game that

01:04:04   they showed, which I think is called Overland, which is coming to the Switch. So it was one of

01:04:09   the ones that was in their little presentation. But to be honest, Apple just doesn't want these

01:04:15   games on Android. That's their big thing, right? Not on Android and not on any other maybe

01:04:21   subscription service that will come out. Now we need to say this is a subscription service. It

01:04:25   is not a streaming service. I get these names wrong all the time and I will continue to get

01:04:32   these names wrong. But like this is a, you pay an amount of money, you can download these games.

01:04:37   These games are yours, I'm assuming, until you stop paying. And you can play them offline,

01:04:42   you can play them online, etc. Like they are, you're paying an amount of money to get access

01:04:46   to playing these games. I think that they have an incredibly exciting selection of games available.

01:04:53   There are a lot of really top tier developers working on this. So you have like, Sega,

01:05:01   they're bringing Sonic Racing, Lego is building a game for this. Annapurna Interactive, they are like

01:05:08   a fantastic publisher. There are some sequels, there was a wonderful RPG called Oceanhorn,

01:05:14   Oceanhorn 2 is going to be on this. Us2 Games, the creators of Monument Valley,

01:05:18   have a new game called Repair, which is going to be here. There is a bunch of great studios,

01:05:23   a bunch of great developers. I am so excited about this because this isn't just a thing that I like,

01:05:32   which is iOS games. It's also like they seem to have done a very good job at it,

01:05:38   where they're bringing in the right developers to make these games. I was wondering,

01:05:43   are we going to see the makers of Clash of Clients here? And we're not because this isn't

01:05:48   their business. I'm really excited about the way that they seem to have done this.

01:05:55   We mentioned the Apple TV earlier. So these will be on iPhone, iPad, Mac, and the Apple TV.

01:06:01   I'm not expecting every game will be, but I bet a lot of games will be and where possible,

01:06:06   I'm sure Apple is pushing on that for them to do that.

01:06:09   Keep in mind that at this point, if you make a game, at least this fall,

01:06:15   when this service is going to arrive, you should be able to make a game that runs on iOS

01:06:21   and Apple TV and Mac, right?

01:06:25   Miles of Pan wouldn't be a differentiator here because games aren't written in

01:06:29   native iOS languages. Like you can, like, so for example, the reason that Altos Adventure

01:06:33   and Altos Odyssey are on the Mac is because they're just written in Unreal or whatever,

01:06:37   which the Mac supports.

01:06:39   But I would imagine that the work that is done to make it work on iOS, that one of Apple's

01:06:44   priorities for the fall would be to get it, that you could take a game off of iOS and

01:06:48   play it on the Mac. And that would be part of what would be Mars of Pan.

01:06:53   Yeah, that makes sense. Along your train of thought, but I don't, I just, I don't know

01:06:58   if that does necessarily make it easier.

01:07:01   I don't know. Since they have this thing.

01:07:03   Game development uses different technologies.

01:07:06   Right. But I mean, I guess that's the question is will that stuff, I just, I look at this

01:07:10   and I think this is a reason why if you're building Mars of Pan, you prioritize the general

01:07:17   concept of game over here should run over there. Right? Like because of this.

01:07:21   That makes sense. I'm completely on board with you. That 100% makes sense.

01:07:26   Not saying, not saying that, well, of course, Mars of Pan will bring up, but more like Mars

01:07:30   of plan. Mars of Pan is a thing that Apple has had to prioritize over this last year and before.

01:07:36   And I look at this thing and I go, probably going to prioritize game compatibility.

01:07:41   Aren't you? Just because you're going to be charging people for this and it makes them,

01:07:46   the game service look better and it makes the Mac look better.

01:07:50   So it's like even just fundamentally Apple, I'm sure we'll be pushing because they are

01:07:54   trying to be pushing more people to make their stuff cross platform in the future.

01:07:58   Anyway, if they're going to be involved in this service, we would like you to do this, right?

01:08:02   We want you to have this everywhere. Um, and part of this is I think because, so

01:08:07   Apple made like a very quick kind of comment, uh, and I made a quick comment about kind of like

01:08:14   helping these studios out. I think Apple is acting as publisher. They are paying an amount of money

01:08:20   to these companies to grant this exclusivity and also to help them kind of get along their way here,

01:08:26   which makes perfect sense. And this is 100% the way they should do this. This one thing,

01:08:33   this idea of Apple being publisher, it's making me rethink the idea of the old adage,

01:08:40   Apple doesn't get games. I think this is Apple getting games, Jason, but it's very important

01:08:46   that they do it this way. I want to hear from the developers about this. That is the next phase of

01:08:52   this. And what we'll hear over the next week is we'll hear from some game developers who are deep

01:08:57   down in this and their thoughts about this. But like you, I looked at this and I thought, Oh,

01:09:02   like that is such a better approach to say, we want this thing to succeed. Um, and we're gonna,

01:09:09   we're gonna not just like scoop up apps that get submitted to the app store and say, say,

01:09:14   would you like to have this? And no, they're gonna, you gotta start way before that. And if

01:09:18   you're gonna start way before that, you're gonna negotiate a deal. And if you negotiate an exclusive

01:09:22   distribution deal, um, part of that is probably, uh, you know, to kick in some money and maybe,

01:09:29   you know, you're a publisher at that point. But the idea here is Apple is going to create a

01:09:33   service that's going to throw off a lot of cash to developers, but it costs a lot of money to

01:09:38   develop these games. And a lot of these developers are small indie developers. So it may change over

01:09:44   time, but I like the idea of Apple saying, we want the catalog to be good. We're going to have more

01:09:49   than a hundred of these games and we've seen your track record and it's really good. And we're going

01:09:55   to be your business partner here. And by business partner, we don't mean you do all the work,

01:10:00   upload it to the store, we approve it, and then we take 30%. Right? It's not, that's not the kind of

01:10:05   business partner. This is, we're going to sign a deal with you. It's going to be exclusive. Maybe

01:10:09   we're going to get you money upfront so that you can actually build this game and then it'll be

01:10:13   exclusive in our service. So I want to hear from the game professionals about how they're, they

01:10:18   feel about this compared to other kind of competition, but iOS games is a pretty great place

01:10:23   to be. And I think there's potential and most of the greatness now is free to play within App Purchase,

01:10:29   but I love what they showed on stage. I love that they showed Monument Valley, for example,

01:10:35   and they had a screenshot of Alto. And it's like, I love those games. Those are, those are the best

01:10:42   games on iOS, right? They're not the most lucrative games, but they're the best games. And if Apple

01:10:47   does this right, what they're going to get is this second set of successful games on iOS that are

01:10:54   really great. And I'm sure they wouldn't say it because they do make a lot of money with the free

01:10:58   to play in App Purchase games, but in a much nicer environment where you don't have to build your

01:11:05   game to be a money machine. Instead, you can just make a beautiful game and people will play it and

01:11:10   love it and they'll make a lot of money. And I'll tell you, if Alto's Odyssey was in this service,

01:11:14   and they paid out based on the amount of time spent, they would have made a lot of money for me.

01:11:20   I know that for sure. They would have gotten all the money from my account for a few months,

01:11:25   for sure. I'm really excited about this. I'm really, really excited about this because

01:11:29   the games that they showed again, like the trailer was great. The stuff that they've got on their

01:11:33   website was great. I know so many companies in this that are great companies. Like,

01:11:40   I'm very enthused about who Apple's deciding to work with, how they're like at least publicly

01:11:45   positioning themselves as like a partner with these companies. And like, I think that this is,

01:11:50   this feels as a avid player of iOS games, I'm excited about this. I'm excited that when I open

01:11:57   the App Store, I can go to the games tab and I can just get a new game. And it's like, all right,

01:12:01   I'll try this next one. And there's like going to be over a hundred and like a hundred of these

01:12:05   games at launch is what they're saying, right? I'll try and play as many of them as I can. Why

01:12:10   not? Like I go to the App Store every couple of days, see what the game of the day is,

01:12:13   see if I'm interested. And you know, maybe I buy a couple a week. Well now, like I'll go to the

01:12:18   arcade tab and I'll download one of the new games that's there and I'll play it. Like, why not? Like,

01:12:22   I have it available to me. I'm really, really, really excited about this. This is, I think,

01:12:27   the thing that speaks the most to me and what I like. The TV stuff is obviously an interest to me,

01:12:34   but I like the business of the streaming services more than I like TV, right? Like,

01:12:40   I don't know why exactly, but it's the reason upstream, like one of the reasons upstream,

01:12:45   well, I think the reason is you, like you are a passionate, avid viewer of television. And for

01:12:50   some reason I am interested in the way that TV stream companies work. I don't know why this is,

01:12:56   but I just, I find it really interesting. It's a new kind of avenue for technology and technology

01:13:01   media. But I am a gamer. Like, I love video games and I love iOS games. And now I'm going to have

01:13:09   access to more great ones by great developers. And I am such a big fan of Indie Game Studios

01:13:17   and a lot of the companies that they worked with that I really hope that it helps, uh,

01:13:21   boom, like be like a big boon to them. And I really hope that there is going to be,

01:13:25   I really hope that it's not a problem for the companies that aren't in the service.

01:13:30   Uh, but my feeling is kind of like, if you make a game that you have to pay for, you already have

01:13:35   such huge market focuses going against you. Is this really going to make it worse than it already

01:13:41   is? I don't know about that. I don't know. I think, um, if this is successful, it's basically

01:13:48   going to push the app store to be you're either in the subscription or you're free to play with

01:13:53   in app purchase. Like that will be the strong incentive if this is successful, but there are

01:13:57   two ways you do games on iOS. And if you want to be outside and charge $6 or whatever, you can do

01:14:04   that too. But it'll be a lot harder to get there. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It will be. Because if

01:14:11   you're a subscriber to this service, you're probably just going to look at that tab,

01:14:13   look at the arcade tab and say, here's what's next. And if there's some app that's not in the

01:14:17   arcade, are you going to see it? I don't know. But then the, but the question that I would like

01:14:22   account of that with right now is are people seeing them anyway? I don't know. Right? Like, and I think

01:14:27   that might be why Apple has felt the requirement to move in on this. And this is something that

01:14:32   they can have a real positive impact for a lot of companies. And I, and I really hope that it's

01:14:37   something that will continue. I'm very intrigued about this one. Um, and it's, it's interesting

01:14:43   that they've announced it right now because it's not out for a while, fall again. So it's intriguing,

01:14:49   but we'll see. Yeah. Do you want to talk about Apple card? Well, of course. How could we not

01:14:57   talk about yet another Apple, some really interested in this Apple are making a credit

01:15:01   card. They've partnered with Goldman Sachs. Uh, they've integrated into the Apple wallet. This

01:15:06   was stuff we kind of knew about before, right? This was what, this was what the rumors were from

01:15:10   Bloomberg, but we didn't really understand what any of that meant, right? Cause that on its own,

01:15:14   doesn't really seem to make much sense. As you would expect the credit card can be used online.

01:15:18   It can be used in stores worldwide is primarily through Apple pay, but Apple will be mailing

01:15:24   their customers a titanium credit card that has no numbers on it, no signature on it,

01:15:30   nothing because of course, uh, I kind of love that. Um, one of the bits has a few big things

01:15:37   about this. Like one is like quick applications. You just apply and I think like in Apple wallet,

01:15:41   and if you get it, you get it and it's immediately available to you. One of their big things is

01:15:45   something called daily cash. You get 2% cash back on purchases, 3% if you're purchasing something

01:15:50   from Apple and you get this every single day in cash deposited to your Apple pay cash card.

01:15:56   It was just, I was like, wow. Okay. So lots of, lots of credit cards do. And I think this is

01:16:02   something that's going to come out over the next week. And I tweeted something to the extent that,

01:16:05   Oh, well, I'm going to, I guess I'm going to spend some of my time this week doing research about how,

01:16:11   um, credit card, like what the best credit cards are and stuff, because people have do a lot of

01:16:16   research on this and it really depends on what, how you live your life and what your priorities

01:16:20   are about what credit card you should get. Um, it's not bad. Although my, I understand,

01:16:26   like somebody was tweeting at me, like Amazon has a credit card that gives you 5% back on Amazon

01:16:30   purchases. And so if you buy all your Apple stuff from Amazon, then you get 5% back and that's a

01:16:35   better deal. It's like, well, yeah, if you spend a lot on Amazon, that's the right card for you.

01:16:38   If you don't, it's not. Um, what's interesting about this is, uh, that these percentage cash

01:16:44   back seem decent. Um, and there are immediate, like we have a discover card here and we get like

01:16:50   certificates that we have to cash out at various points of the year, uh, for certain stores,

01:16:58   or we can get it in cash, but it's actually worth more. If you have a partner store and it's just

01:17:04   like, that's nice. But then I look at this and I think this is way better because my application,

01:17:10   my Apple pay cash balance, which they called Apple cash. So I feel like maybe Apple pay cash

01:17:16   has, is becoming Apple cash now. And then they're going to get rid of that pay part. Um,

01:17:21   it just goes in there and it goes in there every day. And, you know, I see the psychological

01:17:29   benefit of having that there because some of the companies that do the cash back, put it on your

01:17:36   balance. Some of them send you a check. Some of them send you a gift card. Some of them,

01:17:41   you have to do some work in order to get the result. And that's not as good. Um, and then

01:17:46   again, you know, you may be somebody who flies on Southwest airlines all the time and you've got

01:17:50   their card. And by, I read an article that said that was the best credit card deal in the U S if

01:17:55   you fly them, because you can earn so many points that you can qualify for their two for one pass.

01:18:00   And at which point you get essentially 50% off every single airfare. It's like, it's a great

01:18:05   deal. If you fit there for people who listen to this show, I look at this and I think, well,

01:18:11   a lot of people who love, who love Apple products, this is probably a pretty decent deal. Even if all

01:18:16   you're doing is using it to buy everything you buy from Apple, because you probably buy a lot of

01:18:21   stuff from Apple and you'll get 3% cash back, uh, right there. And that's pretty cool. So the

01:18:28   physical card is a 1%, which is, which is your let they're not providing a great incentive to

01:18:32   use the physical card, but they're like, well, we have to give you one and not every place takes

01:18:37   Apple pay. So we're going to do that. But, um, but it really does seem like a product designed

01:18:43   for Apple pay first and as a physical card last. So one of the things that I like is clarity. Um,

01:18:50   and it's not so much the money, it's like the clarity. And I think there's a lot of clarity

01:18:54   throughout the entire product. So the fact that you're seeing the cash back in cash and it's

01:19:00   arriving with you on a daily basis, personally, as a consumer, I prefer that the men at the other

01:19:05   myriad ways that this stuff can be done, whether you get back like a month later, or as you say,

01:19:09   you get it back in this like weird thing that you have to cash in at the end of the year and

01:19:13   a certificate. Yeah, it's no, it's, I get like why they do it that way. I don't like it. It's like

01:19:18   clipping coupons. It's extra work and they're trying to create a barrier between you and your

01:19:22   money. And I don't like you won't get it. And like, so I would give up a percent to have clarity

01:19:29   because that's just a decision that I would make as a consumer. Um, and I like a lot of the other

01:19:34   stuff that they're talking about. So Apple are targeting low interest rates and they're also

01:19:39   doing a lot of stuff that I like about trying to inform you about how much interest you'll pay on a

01:19:43   thing. And they're also trying to show you kind of like charts of your spending habits and things like

01:19:47   that. They are, there's a lot of the design of the app where there are a lot of kind of like,

01:19:53   internet first banks in the UK and in Europe. And I'm noticing a lot of design stuff, how like they

01:19:58   said they would break down, they use machine learning on your transactions to try and assign

01:20:03   some kind of code to an actual retailer. And then you can kind of see how much was spent,

01:20:08   uh, with a specific retailer. There are, there are companies like Monzo and TransferWise and,

01:20:15   and, uh, there's a couple of things like, there's Starling. There are a lot of these banks in the UK

01:20:20   and in Europe, we would do a lot of this stuff. They have really nice apps and they break all

01:20:24   this stuff down for you. I think that kind of stuff's really great. Um, no fees at all for

01:20:29   anything, which is for a credit card company, wild. And privacy focused. Like, I think this

01:20:37   is amazing. I am super sad that I won't be able to get this. Um, and I don't think I'm ever going

01:20:43   to get it. Well, but Jason, like Apple cash, Apple pay cash still is not out of the US.

01:20:49   Like, I think that my hope would be that some credit card company attached to a bank in the UK

01:20:56   sees this and they're like, we want a piece of that action. So then they might help Apple

01:21:01   establish themselves with the card and with Apple pay cash in the UK. That's what I hope will happen

01:21:07   with this. Um, and, or I also hope that the credit card is such a success that Apple accelerates its

01:21:13   efforts with the pay cash stuff and the credit card outside. Um, we will see, uh, it's launching

01:21:21   in the summer in the US, but like I personally, I would be immediately on this. Like, this would be

01:21:26   great for me, the way that I spend on credit cards. Like I like pay my credit card off every month.

01:21:31   Um, so like, you know, the interest rate stuff is never that much of an issue for me. Cause I,

01:21:35   I don't, I just, I had, I went through all this when I was a much younger man. Uh, and, and I

01:21:40   don't, I don't like to get into debt in these ways where I can avoid it. Um, and I, I, but I think

01:21:47   that this is a very interesting play for Apple. This is, this is something else. Like I tweeted

01:21:53   this, like when this happened, like this is not your grandparents, Apple, like this is not, this

01:21:58   is a very, very different company. This is a company who wants to take your money and they want

01:22:04   your money to flow through them. And then they're going to give you money to spend on their stuff.

01:22:09   Like this is again, like if you have a trillion dollars in the bank or like,

01:22:13   whatever much money they have in the bank, you're a trillion dollar company.

01:22:16   This is what you do because you have so much money. What else are you going to do with it all?

01:22:22   By the way, if you have a trillion dollars in the bank, you are literally the bank. Um,

01:22:25   the other bank now they, they are kind of the bank now. This is, um, also Apple's Apple's

01:22:33   rationale here for this product is not. Um, the rationale that almost anybody else has a credit

01:22:39   card for, and that is powerful for them because they have all of this influence that they can,

01:22:45   they can do this. And this, you know, we made a deal with Goldman Sachs and all of that. It does

01:22:49   have, it feels a little bit like the early days of the, uh, of the iPod and the iTunes store where,

01:22:55   um, Apple was coming at it from a different angle and they got a partner to go along with them or

01:23:00   even the iPhone and singular to a certain extent, it feels like that where it's sort of like, well,

01:23:03   we need a bank to be a partner to do this, but we have all of these priorities that are not,

01:23:08   uh, anybody else's priorities in the financial services arena because we're Apple. Our priorities

01:23:13   are different. Our priorities are, um, we have a business with lots of devices and we want to take,

01:23:18   uh, we'll just take our cut out of all the transactions that are going to pass through.

01:23:24   And that works for us. So we don't want, and what we want in exchange is we want the bank we're

01:23:29   using to agree not to take any data and sell it, which I don't know if people know this, but like

01:23:35   almost every bank will sell resell your personal data. Like they do that. That's part of their

01:23:41   business model. So we're not going to let them do that. And Apple's gonna keep stuff on device and

01:23:46   not even analyze a whole bunch of stuff that you do. And, and they put up that slide. It's basically

01:23:51   like, there are all these things about your transaction that Apple just doesn't even know.

01:23:55   And, um, and it's all kept on device and, and yes, they extended the wallet app to do some stuff too,

01:24:01   which is nice, but, um, and some of that they could probably do with every card that's an Apple

01:24:07   pay. And it's a little disappointing that they're like only our card, but it's their prerogative.

01:24:12   But, um, you know, because their priorities are different, their product is a little bit different

01:24:16   and it fits in with the story they're trying to tell. And I think for a lot of people,

01:24:22   this will be a very good option. Um, especially since, you know, Apple is not trying to necessarily

01:24:28   be the best available deal to go back to my coupon clipping metaphor. I'm positive that an expert

01:24:38   would show you any number of credit cards or sets of credit cards that you could sign up for,

01:24:44   for various things and work out a whole program where you could maximize the amount of savings.

01:24:48   And if you take flights on this airline, you should get that card and make these kinds of

01:24:53   purchases with it. I have no doubt that if you put a huge amount of effort into it, you can maximize

01:24:58   the amount of savings you get from various credit cards and the ones that have fees and the ones that

01:25:03   don't and that whole thing. However, Apple's not playing that game, which is not surprising since

01:25:10   Apple also doesn't play the low, low price game when it comes to product prices. What Apple wants

01:25:15   to do is create something that's simple, that has very clear direct benefits to you, that is a

01:25:22   pretty good deal, even if it's maybe not the very, very, very best deal in credit cards and has this

01:25:28   whole layer of like features and, uh, in software and security and privacy layered on top. Cause

01:25:34   what Apple wants to be is, um, make a good enough product to solve a product that people are like,

01:25:40   Oh, I'll just get the Apple thing. That's the easiest thing. And it's good. And it's fine.

01:25:44   It's not ripping me off. And like, that's sort of the bar is it's, you know, the experts say you

01:25:49   could get some better deals, but it'll be more effort and, and let, and, and you might have to

01:25:54   like be a change your buying patterns a little bit. Um, that's fine. Apple, Apple is not, I think,

01:26:01   even shooting for that. Apple just wants that the, the credit card equivalent of the app installed

01:26:05   on your device. That's what they want to be. It's like you have an iPhone so easy to sign up on your,

01:26:12   on your phone for this credit card and use it to buy all your stuff and you get cash back and you

01:26:17   can see the cash coming back in a push notification appears saying you just got $8 back for that thing

01:26:23   you bought. Like I, I totally see what they're going for here. And, um, it could be very

01:26:29   successful for them. Even, even though it's not for everybody, because again, it doesn't have to

01:26:33   be for everybody. And I do think we'll be inundated in the next week with a lot of people and a lot of

01:26:37   stories about how it's, Oh no, this Apple thing is not for everybody. Now, of course it's not

01:26:42   like, you know, I'm interested in it myself, but I've been meaning to research that Southwest

01:26:48   airlines credit card too, because I've heard and I use them a lot that that might actually be a

01:26:53   great deal because I, you know, since I use them, their big discounts would go further for me. If

01:26:59   you're a heavy Amazon user, the Amazon card, which I am a heavy Amazon user, I've never even considered

01:27:05   using Amazon's credit card. Right. So, you know, it doesn't have to be for everyone, but I do. It's,

01:27:10   it's got a lot of stuff wrapped up in it. This feels for, for a totally weird non-Apple product,

01:27:16   cause it's a financial services product. It actually feels like an Apple product to me in

01:27:19   some ways. I don't know what it is. There's something very appley about this product.

01:27:22   Just dealing the chat says, I think Apple's main incentive is that if people get the Apple card,

01:27:27   they will be less likely to transition to another mobile phone vendor. Yes. That's the no, but like,

01:27:32   that's all of this. That's what all of this is. Everything we're talking about today, all that,

01:27:36   that services, that's what services is for them. It's the lock-in and getting extra money out of

01:27:42   their customers. It's not always right. The TV app isn't locked in because it'll be on other devices,

01:27:47   but there is this virtuous cycle of being a part of the Apple ecosystem and having access to these

01:27:54   nice things. I'd say it's also very similar to their whole privacy thing that they're pushing.

01:27:58   Now is sort of like, yeah, Apple stuff's a little more expensive, but it's just nicer. And like,

01:28:03   even the credit card is nicer and like that's, that's their core audience, right? That's their

01:28:08   core appeal in the end is yeah, all this, all this Apple stuff is nicer. And once you're in the Apple

01:28:14   ecosystem using their stuff as nicer and easier and better integrated. So you might as well just

01:28:18   use their stuff and use their credit card and all of that. Like that is, we can debate those points,

01:28:23   but like that is what they're going for and that they've had a lot of success. And this doesn't

01:28:27   have to be a bad thing. And I don't think that Joe is necessarily saying that it is a bad thing,

01:28:32   but it is a realistic thing. Like the point of the services stuff is to give Apple another

01:28:39   avenue to go down. And it's two things. You want to get more money where you can get it and you

01:28:43   want to give your customers more of a reason to want to stay with you. And these are that,

01:28:48   like it doesn't have to be like the lock-in idea. I think a lot of the time is met with an idea of,

01:28:53   oh, that's a bad thing. It's like, no, it's like lock-in is a phrase that can be used. It's just

01:29:00   like it is making you feel better for the choice of phone that you made. Right? Like you decided

01:29:07   to get an iPhone and now look at all this stuff you can do and all of this other stuff that you'll

01:29:11   be able to do, like good work on your choice. And that's how I feel as a customer of Apple,

01:29:18   that like I have a bunch of benefits that I get and all of this stuff when my, when I'm in the

01:29:23   right country for it, is available to me. And I think that that is a good thing as a person who

01:29:28   decided many years ago that Apple is the right platform for him. And now I'm continuing to reap

01:29:33   the benefits of that. Well, when I look at my friends on Android and in other ecosystems,

01:29:39   I feel like that the overall that you get in that world sometimes, a lot of the time, isn't as

01:29:45   like wholly inclusive of giving you all the services and things that you want for a price

01:29:51   that you're happy with in a way that meets your own sensibilities. And I think that this is another

01:29:57   example of that. Like I would want this product because I think that it's a cool product and it

01:30:02   would tie into the things that I use every single day. Like I think that for me personally, the

01:30:07   arcade and the card are the two things that I think resonate with me personally the most out

01:30:13   of these as a consumer. I really want to be able to access both of these services. I am very

01:30:20   intrigued about the content that Apple is making and I'm looking forward to seeing more and I know

01:30:25   that I'm going to be subscribing and watching that. But like I would take the card no question

01:30:29   right now and I cannot wait to give Apple my money for Apple Arcade. Fascinating. All right,

01:30:34   the Upgradients have been reaching out with their questions and we should definitely try and help

01:30:39   them where we can, Jason. But I want to thank our final sponsor for this week's episode and that is

01:30:44   Luna Display. I love Luna Display. I love that with my Luna Display I can have extra screen space

01:30:50   whenever I want it. And that is what when I'm on my Mac and that is what it does. So it takes your

01:30:54   iPad and your Mac and it puts them together in a glorious harmony. I love Luna Display. I have been

01:31:00   such a happy customer of theirs. Having extra screen space when you're working at your Mac is

01:31:05   so useful. It can make tiresome tasks more enjoyable. It can remove the requirement to be

01:31:09   switching spaces or even if like I know that Stephen Hackett, your and my co-host and co-founder

01:31:16   of Relay event does this where he has audio hijack when he's recording a show on his iPad on Luna

01:31:21   Display. So it's just off at the side and it's just like well it's there. It's just like a thing

01:31:25   that you can see it when you need it. And I think that's a really clever way of using it. It's just

01:31:28   like have a thing that needs to, you need to sometimes glance up but you don't need right in

01:31:32   front of you and it's a way you can't accidentally click it. Like it's just simple. It's off on the

01:31:36   side right like it's brilliant and I think Luna Display is great for stuff like that.

01:31:41   Our iPads have such wonderful displays. Wouldn't it be great to be able to take advantage of all

01:31:46   of that beautiful screen real estate when you're sitting down and working at your Mac. Whether you

01:31:50   have a Wi-Fi connection or not you can connect with USB. It's super simple. The Luna Display

01:31:54   provides crystal clear image quality, reliable performance and wireless flexibility. You just

01:31:59   pop a little piece of hardware, a lovely little dongle from straight from the great area of dongle

01:32:03   town into your Mac and you're good to go. It makes your setup so portable. Like if you are using a

01:32:09   laptop and you have your iPad with you, maybe you're traveling, maybe you're at the office,

01:32:12   maybe you're in a coffee shop. This way you can have multiple screens without having to lug around

01:32:17   an extra display. There's no way you would want to do that right? Like you just take like a thunderbolt

01:32:21   display and your MacBook down to the coffee shop. You don't need to be one of those people if you

01:32:25   have a Luna Display. It's also a complete extension of your Mac. It will support your external keyboard,

01:32:30   it will support Apple Pencil, touch interactions. With a swipe of a finger you can be using your

01:32:34   Mac and you can be tapping around with your pencil. It's super super awesome and they've

01:32:37   just updated the Liquid Video Engine which brings significantly reduced latency and a faster screen

01:32:43   refresh rate as well. Listeners of Upgrade can get an exclusive 10% discount on Luna Display. Just

01:32:49   go to lunadisplay.com and enter the promo code upgrade at checkout. That is L-U-N-A-D-I-S-P-L-A-Y.com

01:32:57   promo code upgrade at checkout. Don't put this off any longer. Go there right now. lunadisplay.com

01:33:02   promo code upgrade 10% off. Our thanks to Luna Display for their support of this show and all

01:33:07   at Real AFM. So good, so good. Myke, I have a segment before we go to Ask Upgrade. Oh a new segment?

01:33:13   Yes it is not a recurring segment but something I wanted to put in here which is just a moment to

01:33:18   think to pause to consider what didn't get announced at this event that could in the future

01:33:25   and what I'm thinking is that plus, that plus Myke, the plus that's not on the arcade but

01:33:31   that's on TV, that's on news, where else might it go? And I have a few suggestions that I'm just

01:33:37   going to mention here. I'm not saying these are going to happen. Some of them it's probably less

01:33:41   likely that they're going to happen but I want to, I think it would be useful for all of us over the

01:33:45   next few weeks to consider what else Apple could make a service and slap a plus on and I have a

01:33:50   few suggestions. One is Apple Music Plus. I'm not quite sure what they would do but is there

01:33:54   something they could do with exclusive? They could do it with quality. They could take

01:33:59   exclusives like they did with the iTunes sessions and they could put up a bunch of like live albums

01:34:04   and acoustic sessions and stuff like that and brand them as music plus. I mean you're already

01:34:08   paying for Apple Music so you probably not but I wonder about that. Apple Books Plus, so Kindle

01:34:16   Unlimited and there's Prime Reading. Amazon has got a few different kind of like subscription

01:34:22   book reading services. I'm not sure how big that business would be for Apple. I'm not sure how big

01:34:27   it is for Amazon but I'm just going to throw it out there. That's an example of a subscription

01:34:31   service that provides you with basically free books that you can read and I don't use that

01:34:40   service but it's there and I think that's kind of interesting so I'll throw that out there. And the

01:34:44   one that put a little chill down my spine but we talked about how so many companies like Spotify

01:34:50   are investing in original audio content that they're calling a podcast but is limited to their

01:34:57   app and I don't know if Apple has any designs to do this but Apple Podcasts Plus right like what

01:35:04   if they did a subscription service for original podcast material. I think what's working against

01:35:10   all of these things is Apple has bigger fish to fry and that they would rather focus on these more

01:35:16   we've seen the ones that are the biggest opportunities for them but I still have this

01:35:21   you know and maybe it wouldn't be in podcast maybe it would be part of music or it would be it would

01:35:25   come with music but I keep thinking Apple's position in podcasting is so powerful they are

01:35:30   still number one in terms of the playback environment and they haven't made any attempt

01:35:35   to make a service out of it yet. I don't know if I can really put my mind to that thought about the

01:35:43   podcasting thing right now. Just watch for the pluses keep watching for pluses. Think about the

01:35:47   pluses what could get a plus stuck on the end of it because plus means recurring revenue at the

01:35:54   services line and they like that. Let's go to #AskUpgrade our first question comes from

01:36:00   Wayne. If you bundled all of Apple's services now that you know them all at least how much would it

01:36:05   be a reasonable price for you? So how much would you pay? So we know that one of them is $10 a month

01:36:12   I'm going to assume that Arcade will probably be $10 a month. I reckon they're all going to be

01:36:18   like 10 so I reckon we're going to get like at that point we'll have four of them right including

01:36:23   music so it'd be like $40 would be the total price. I would like to see 25 I would pay 30

01:36:34   for all four of those. All right so it'll be 35 then.

01:36:41   Yeah that's how it works Myke you want it to be 25 you round it up and then it's more than that

01:36:46   that's that's how you do it. Do you have numbers do you have different numbers?

01:36:50   I don't I haven't had time to think about it if you think of video as being in the in the

01:36:56   7 to 15 range probably more likely 10. Music is 10 or 15 sort of the family you know one price

01:37:04   for families is not something they do for music you have to charge it you they make you pay extra

01:37:08   for families but it's you know 10 or 15 you start to add it up and yeah you end up in in 50 a month

01:37:15   and is there a what what's the deal that makes you take those services that you don't want because if

01:37:21   the average person only buys two of them well that's 20 so a $30 bundle or $25 bundle doesn't

01:37:27   really work for them. Everyone in the chat room is saying iCloud yes yes iCloud iCloud could also

01:37:33   go in there sure same price economics. Sure if you wanted to so yeah I don't know I don't know

01:37:40   exactly but I still think a bundle makes sense and I really and it turned out to be Oprah but for a

01:37:46   while I really thought they were leading up to the big last thing being what what how do you bundle

01:37:51   this but they don't have prices for these things so they can't bundle them you can't bundle them

01:37:55   if you haven't announced prices for them that doesn't matter yeah that's like why would you

01:37:59   even bother so and also you can't sell the bundle because they're not available right like the bundle

01:38:03   if there's going to be a bundle the bundle will probably come in September which is when TV plus

01:38:09   and arcade will be will be available as well. Yeah and so that's that's my guess is that we'll get it

01:38:16   and there will be I have a hard time again seeing there not being a bundle there's just it makes too

01:38:21   much sense they will get more subscribers into all of these things by offering a little bit of

01:38:26   a discount but you know I don't know what that price is it probably more than you want though.

01:38:32   Brian asks you know this was a services event there were four services if you count the card

01:38:39   in those announced today only one of them is available why did they announce arcade the card

01:38:44   and tv plus so far in advance? All right so tv I said earlier I think part of it is just to get it

01:38:50   out there they're they're planning a stake in the ground they got their name they know other services

01:38:55   are being announced they've set a date to it it means all of the people who are making the shows

01:38:58   don't can stop complaining that that nobody has heard anything about what Apple is doing it lets

01:39:03   Apple do freeze Apple up to continue to promote them whenever at once because the cat is out of

01:39:09   the bag so that's the reason for that one I would say globally by the way it made this there's a

01:39:16   coherent presentation I think there's value in that in having a presentation about services that

01:39:22   if these services were tacked onto the end of hardware announcements it would be you could do

01:39:28   it but I think there's value in Apple having a very straightforward like let's talk about all

01:39:32   the services we provide and all the ways that they're similar and if you do that they're not

01:39:36   all going to be ready at the same time and they don't want to delay the ones that are ready.

01:39:39   Card I don't know other than that it probably financially you know like all the details we're

01:39:48   going to leak out at some point anyway and it's part of the services conversation so you might

01:39:51   as well get it out now. Arcade is interesting because it could have been a WWDC announcement

01:40:00   and I have at least an indication from somewhere that will remain nameless.

01:40:09   From a note Jason picked up on the ground.

01:40:11   To be fair it was at Apple Park that I found that note so it could be legit.

01:40:18   No it's a that this may have originally been intended as an App Store announcement or a WWDC

01:40:25   announcement which would make sense because it's developers right but I could see it being in

01:40:30   either event it really is appropriate for either event and maybe tipping it over the top is the

01:40:37   fact that Google announced a GDC their whole big Stadia initiative which is a Google subscription

01:40:44   streaming games service and I wonder if that might you know I don't think that's the only reason

01:40:51   because I do think it fits. Very different services. And they are different but I could

01:40:57   see how that maybe tipped the balance toward including it in this presentation rather than

01:41:02   sitting on it. I think it makes way more sense here because I think it's pretty clear that at

01:41:07   least for the time being this is not a thing that anybody can just decide that they want to become

01:41:11   a part of with Arcade. Right the developer they're not going to evangelize to WWDC like hey we have

01:41:16   this game subscription service don't call us we'll call you. You know even if that's true now it also

01:41:22   frees them up at WWDC to answer questions about the subscription gaming service and maybe even say

01:41:27   here's you know here's how this works and talk to your if you're a game developer talk to your

01:41:31   developer contact or however they want to do it or or forget about it even it lets them communicate

01:41:37   that it lets the questions kind of queue up over the course of the next few months instead of it

01:41:41   being dropped on developers especially since as you put it you know it this isn't the sort of

01:41:47   thing where you just sign up and so to roll that out of WWDC actually would be maybe a little more

01:41:53   awkward. Myke wrote in to ask this is not me will Apple cars require approval and I looked through

01:41:59   the Apple's website and it will so they spoke about the fact that you can sign up for it and

01:42:04   you'll have it in minutes that's true but they are still doing a credit check on you and your approval

01:42:09   is subject to a credit check passing. Credit checks can be instantaneous these days it is not a long

01:42:15   process so so you can have it in minutes but you will need to pass a credit check to be able to use

01:42:20   Apple card. And if you've frozen your credit you may have to unfreeze it and then do the credit

01:42:25   check then but they're trying to make it easy but it's still a credit card. Yeah yeah ultimately

01:42:30   there's still risk that you know that they're not taking fee that you're gonna have to pass

01:42:34   a credit check. We have no idea how stringent Apple's gonna be and your interest rate as

01:42:38   normal will be within a range depending on your credit history but yeah also pay off your credit

01:42:44   cards don't don't don't the interest rates are too high you get a credit card pay it off pay it off

01:42:50   if you can. Colton has written in to ask do you still think that Apple TV+ could be on Android

01:42:56   or at least the web? I do not anymore Jason I think we've seen everything we're going to see for it.

01:43:01   Well this is the counter argument which is a little bit of a hybrid of the two

01:43:08   options we have been given in the past which is Apple wants it to be available on every TV

01:43:15   but on other devices it's only on Apple devices and that could be the scenario. Could be is the

01:43:24   question here and I'd say yeah I think it still could be I think there is it is still possible

01:43:29   that Apple will make this stuff available on the web or on Android or both down the road because

01:43:36   they you know it will increase the number of devices that can watch it but I think clearly

01:43:41   their number one priority was TV. On an infinite time scale of course but like I think that if

01:43:46   we're looking at like within launch period I don't think so I think we've seen I think we've seen

01:43:51   what we're going to see there. Yeah presumably if they were going to launch with a web browser

01:43:55   they would have done it they would have said so they didn't. They didn't and I think that they

01:43:59   have actually made it available to more people in more ways than I expected like no like I'm not

01:44:05   saying like you need to buy a new TV right that is one way but the other way is two products from two

01:44:10   companies that make relatively inexpensive sticks Amazon and Roku like that is making it very

01:44:18   available to a lot of people and really the best way to get this content is going to be on a

01:44:22   television right it's going to always be the best way to view this content is on a television and

01:44:27   if you don't have access to a television then you probably want an iPad right like that's that's

01:44:32   probably what you want to do for this type of stuff. Steve asks is this the weirdest Apple event

01:44:37   that you have ever covered? Not even close. This is why I wanted to put this in there because I

01:44:43   was hoping Jason that you would be able to provide a bit of context I don't think this is a weird

01:44:46   Apple event at all if anything I thought that this was a much more Apple-y feeling Apple event than

01:44:51   even I was expecting it to be. Yeah other than the the part where the individual TV people came

01:44:56   out on stage and talked like the screen went black the the stage went black and then they they

01:45:01   magically appeared right? I think that they handled it really well all of that everyone was

01:45:05   interesting and entertaining you know like I actually did an interesting job. Yeah although

01:45:09   Camille Nongianno is the very clearly the polished public speaker of the group right? Yeah.

01:45:17   Yeah that guy that was did a good job too though I thought that he was pretty good he told a good

01:45:21   story. Yeah it's just you know actors like to read their lines so the I'm sorry Jen just saying it

01:45:28   as like it is anyway the because she loves you Jen I just still love you glad to be in the room with

01:45:34   you. The the there was a like a quick time event back in the pre-jobs time which was one of the

01:45:43   most bizarre because it was like we're showing you quick time is like the future dude and it's like

01:45:48   VR and and cool you know codex and it was so strange I still have like a note was this the

01:45:55   event that you went to where you kind of said please stop inviting us to these events was that

01:46:00   the one no there was the one right before the iMac which I don't even remember it was so not memorable

01:46:05   but there was something that was like let us tell you about our products that you already know about

01:46:09   and we're like okay stop inviting us and then the next event was the iMac and one person went

01:46:14   because we're like you fooled me once shame on me fool me twice shame on you and then it was the

01:46:18   iMac and we're like oh and I've been to every Apple event since that it was shame on us after all

01:46:23   yeah turns out Steve Jobs actually had something but the previous event was nothing and in the jobs

01:46:27   era I would say there was that Macworld Expo New York event where they obviously had a product that

01:46:34   fell out and so they brought like who was it John Rubenstein maybe Avi Tavanian they brought

01:46:43   somebody out to like explain how processors work and like the megahertz myth and why G4s were better

01:46:50   than Intel processors and it was like time stopped that was I mean was that weird or just bad I don't

01:46:57   know it was super weird that they were doing it there is a part of Jason still in that room I am

01:47:02   still at the Javits Center listening to Avi Tavanian talk about the processor cycles or was

01:47:08   it John Rubenstein or both or none or a strange fusion of both of them that was inside a processor

01:47:14   inside an Intel bunny suit by the way somebody asked if the guy who was demoing Apple News was

01:47:18   the first person on stage at an Apple event wearing a jumpsuit and my immediate response was

01:47:26   it depends on if you count the Intel bunny suit because I think there was a guy in an

01:47:30   Intel bunny suit on stage at some point and then and then the last Macworld Expo keynote which was

01:47:36   Phil Schiller I think they didn't have anything to announce specifically and it was weird because

01:47:41   it was like a Steve Jobs keynote without Steve Jobs which during that era didn't happen but it

01:47:47   was like you know you don't get Steve Jobs you just get Phil here he is and you know Phil's fine

01:47:52   but it was very much like nope don't nobody come nobody come we're leaving this show nobody come

01:47:59   so there have been other weird Apple events and I agree with you Myke this was actually more normal

01:48:04   than I thought it would be and finally today Myke not me asks will I be able to stream iTunes

01:48:10   content to my Roku when the TV app launches and I think yes that's the that's the point so like the

01:48:15   TV app will have access to your iTunes content because I think that's where it's all going to be

01:48:21   they said they were acting they were adding the entire iTunes movie library to the TV app so

01:48:26   basically all the iTunes media stuff should be in the TV app because it's all going away

01:48:31   iTunes is coming away this is where you're going to buy it from like you you will be at you can buy

01:48:37   in the TV app now which you couldn't do before you have to go out to iTunes but that's coming in the

01:48:42   tv OS update like this is the screenshots on Apple's website you just buy and rent right in

01:48:46   the TV app real-time follow-up from Zach in the chat room it was Rubenstein Jason it was Rubenstein

01:48:53   okay Avi Tavaniyan's ghost was walking through the down the down the middle of the aisles trying to

01:49:00   Vainian still very much alive well it was his Apple employee ghost is what it was yes John

01:49:06   Rubenstein would like to tell you about these there's little animations of little like commands

01:49:12   being sent into the processors and parallel and risk and and yeah part of my soul remains there

01:49:20   we did it Jason Snow that was the service that was the services event yeah I guess you could

01:49:26   say that this podcast is a service that we provide I would agree with you and if you would like to

01:49:32   read about those service relay.fm/upgrades/238 for information about this episode including

01:49:38   show notes and hopefully your podcast app of choice will have show notes in it

01:49:41   I am sure Jason will have many articles that he will be panning about today's information

01:49:45   go to sixcolors.com and you'll be able to read those there Jason is also on twitter he's @jsnw

01:49:51   J S N E L L I'm @imyke I did this before and I did it again on Instagram I kind of publish what

01:50:01   it's like to be Myke on a day like today and I'm going to create like an Instagram highlight so if

01:50:06   you want if you are at all interested what it is like to be Myke Hurley on a day like this

01:50:11   trying to kind of wrangle all the information and get ready to record upgrade very late in the

01:50:16   evening I will have a link in the show notes where you can go and see what that's like on my

01:50:20   Instagram page so that's my version of live blogging like what is Myke doing today that's

01:50:26   that's kind of all I have Jason Mann's the bleed six colors is that is that is it six colors events

01:50:32   right is the six colors event twitter account for life yeah I don't want to pollute everybody's

01:50:36   twitter account if they don't want it yeah that's what that's what that's what Jason's doing and I'm

01:50:41   just posting on my Instagram stories so you know so to each their own really I think Jason's work

01:50:47   is a bit more important than mine but but it's okay we made it we made it through Jason Snell

01:50:52   I want to thank everyone Simple Contacts, Bombast, TextExpander and Luna Display for their support of

01:50:57   this show and most of all I want to thank you for tuning in and we'll be back next time until then

01:51:02   say goodbye Jason Snell goodbye plus Myke goodbye plus