234: The Ideological Folding Wars


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:08   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 2-3-4. Today's show is brought to you by

00:00:14   Luna Display, Squarespace, and Green Chef. My name is

00:00:17   Myke Hurley and I'm joined by Jason Snell. Hi, Jason Snell.

00:00:21   Hello, Myke Hurley. How are you? I'm fine and dandy, my friend. How are you?

00:00:25   Uh, doing great, um, and I'm not going to tell you what the weather's like here.

00:00:29   You're just gonna have to guess. Well, it's probably similar. It's pretty

00:00:32   warm here today, actually, but nobody cares about that because it's time for a

00:00:35   #snowtalk question and today's comes from Tyler and Tyler asks the

00:00:40   simple three-word question, Jason, of "Bagged or loose leaf?"

00:00:45   Hmm, it's referring to groceries, obviously. Yeah, do you loose leaf your groceries?

00:00:49   Because you have a Nissan Leaf. Is that when you just throw the groceries inside?

00:00:53   You just let it roll around? That has happened where I've forgotten to bring

00:00:56   the shopping bags to the store and they're like, "I can charge you

00:01:01   extra and put these in bags," and I say, "You know what? Don't just put them in the

00:01:04   cart." I'm rolling loose leaf today. I'll do loose

00:01:08   leaf, grocery, and then, well, I did that one time

00:01:11   and I didn't bring the bags in the car, in the store, but I had them in the

00:01:14   car and I'm like, "You know what? I'll bag the groceries in the parking lot

00:01:17   and then do it that way." So that was that, it's like a

00:01:21   between loose leaf and bagged. Anyway, this question is actually... Well, it was

00:01:24   that one time when you had loose leaf cans rolling around in the back of the

00:01:27   car while we were recording an episode of Upgrade.

00:01:30   Yeah, sure. #CarCast, that's a deep cut for long-time upgrade listeners.

00:01:34   And if that was in the loose leaf, it would be a loose leaf leaf.

00:01:38   And when Tweedle beetles battle, it's a Tweedle beetle battle. Anyway, this is a

00:01:41   question about tea, and the answer is the tea robot that I

00:01:45   have that I love that's the Breville tea-making thing that

00:01:50   that automatically makes my tea in the morning and is great,

00:01:54   is a loose leaf thing. So you put the tea, you put a couple of scoops of the tea

00:01:58   in the in the little basket, and then it

00:02:01   automatically boils the water and puts the tea down in for three minutes or

00:02:04   whatever time you set, and then it pulls the water back,

00:02:06   or the the basket back out. And then if I'm traveling and stuff, then it's just

00:02:11   it's bagged because it's convenient. It's convenient,

00:02:14   and it's fine. So that's my answer. But I buy

00:02:18   tea, loose leaf tea, in bulk and use it in the tea robot.

00:02:23   The tea robot I have found by searching for your name

00:02:27   and tea robot, and I'll put it in the show notes.

00:02:31   It's very, very easy to find. It is one of my favorite

00:02:35   ridiculous gadgets because I love it because it means... Because making tea is

00:02:39   fussy, because if you leave the tea in the

00:02:41   water too long, it gets bitter and it's bad. And so what this thing will do is

00:02:45   heat up the water to whatever temperature you want, then put the tea

00:02:48   in the water for as long as you want, and then remove the tea from the water. So

00:02:52   you can basically wake up in the morning like I do and put water and

00:02:55   and tea, press a button and walk away, and come back whenever, 20 minutes later, an

00:02:59   hour later, and there's hot tea for you. It's pretty

00:03:02   nice, but you do have to buy a gadget for it.

00:03:05   Jason, I have just a very quick piece of follow-up

00:03:08   and some very quick upstream news as well today. We're just gonna

00:03:12   fire through this. So you were thinking more as is

00:03:15   the way, the upgrade cycle, right, which is either one of...

00:03:19   It typically goes this way. Jason writes something

00:03:22   and I think, "Hmm, that might be interesting to talk about on the show."

00:03:25   So we talk about it on the show and then Jason thinks about something on the show

00:03:28   and then writes another article that comes out of the upgrade.

00:03:31   It's like composting for ideas. Yeah. So you wrote an article on Macworld

00:03:36   kind of fleshing out a little bit more about the thinking behind your

00:03:41   thoughts on Apple moving more into the smart home product

00:03:45   business and a little bit about your great idea

00:03:49   of the Apple TV sound bar as well. So people can go and read that, but

00:03:54   is there anything more that you wanted to expound upon from last week?

00:03:57   No, I mean, it was a good conversation. It was a story that had been

00:04:00   sitting in my to-do list for a long time and

00:04:02   then we talked about on the show and that was enough of an impetus for me to

00:04:05   say, "Why don't I just turn this into an article?"

00:04:08   In writing the article, though, it went from originally as

00:04:11   conceived by me being kind of a pitch for the Apple TV sound bar,

00:04:15   which for those who didn't listen last week is a combination of a HomePod and

00:04:18   an Apple TV because I think there might be actually

00:04:21   a product there and I think that might be

00:04:23   interesting for Apple, but it was the larger point of

00:04:26   as Apple's competitors buy the other products in the

00:04:33   market, you know, that was my larger point was I feel like

00:04:36   we all the same arguments apply that Apple shouldn't get into the

00:04:40   smart home business necessarily because they're focused on bigger

00:04:43   they have bigger fish to fry basically they're focused on these enormous hit

00:04:46   products. That is all still reasonable.

00:04:51   The problem is that if their competitors buy up every other smart home gadget and

00:04:55   infrastructure tool that's out there so that

00:05:00   their customers, Apple's customers, can't get on the internet without passing

00:05:03   through a gateway controlled by their competitors,

00:05:06   that maybe Apple needs to start thinking about strategically

00:05:10   buying companies that are doing home tech

00:05:13   just to keep them, even if they just put them in a subsidiary,

00:05:17   just to keep them out of the clutches of Google

00:05:21   and Amazon especially and maybe Facebook. And I've kind of come around to that

00:05:28   feeling like maybe you need to be present here

00:05:32   because if you're Apple because your competitors are very much present there

00:05:37   and if they snap up every innovative company that's going

00:05:40   in here and like I know you don't want to make a wi-fi router Apple but

00:05:43   what if all the wi-fi routers are owned by the competition they're going to work

00:05:47   less well with your stuff and you know the priority is going to be

00:05:52   on your competition's products and also their business model so that's

00:05:58   the that's the long and short of it. I understand the argument of like bigger

00:06:02   fish to fry but they can fry as many fish as they want.

00:06:05   They can. They could fry a lot of fish. I think Apple is not built that

00:06:10   way historically like they don't hire a lot

00:06:12   of people. We see it right like they could have an enormous operation

00:06:17   but I think they believe that part of the magic of what they do is

00:06:21   that they keep it on the small side but like I said

00:06:23   you know maybe the answer they hired a new person to be in charge of their

00:06:27   smart home efforts right they hired a new person so the question was

00:06:30   what's his charter is his charter to like make a different home pot or

00:06:34   whatever or is it to do something to have a bigger

00:06:37   impact in this area and again does Apple have to make it all

00:06:41   no but Apple has a lot of money so another model would be for Apple to

00:06:46   invest in a bunch of these companies or maybe even buy these companies outright

00:06:50   and then just say no they're going to run out there it's fine. This is a model

00:06:54   Apple already employs let's me not forget

00:06:57   Beats right Beats is a separate company that seems to have its own marketing and

00:07:03   it's all of its own product development and they share with Apple

00:07:07   but there is nothing to stop Apple from having its kind of like alphabet moment

00:07:11   with Nest or you know like that they can have a

00:07:14   separate company that makes technology for the home that is

00:07:19   still owned by them and as Zach in the chat room is pointing out

00:07:22   FileMaker never forget never forget FileMaker but like

00:07:26   Beats is the better example here right if like that is a hardware company with

00:07:30   a different brand that Apple wholly owns but you could very

00:07:34   easily forget that they do and maybe they could do that for smart

00:07:38   home. Yeah I mean I think all options should be on the table but

00:07:40   if the argument is that Apple should never invest strategically

00:07:45   in keeping products that are innovative away from their competition

00:07:49   in the home especially and in the home infrastructure and smart home

00:07:53   markets because Apple culturally can't focus on

00:07:56   that many things at once then I think the answer is Apple's got a

00:08:00   lot of resources Apple doesn't need to focus its people on

00:08:03   it Apple could set a budget and set up a company with somebody in

00:08:07   charge of it to just either make investments or buy

00:08:11   companies and then allow them to run on their own.

00:08:14   There are lots of other models here but I do

00:08:17   just I had that moment where I thought is it really good that

00:08:21   Amazon bought Eero and that that the Google has bought

00:08:24   you know Google bought Nest back in the day and Dropcam and a whole bunch of

00:08:27   other things like is it is it good for Apple if Apple says you

00:08:31   know we're just gonna sit out and do HomeKit and HomeKit's

00:08:34   gonna be great and people are gonna support it

00:08:37   and meanwhile every company that makes something that is part of that

00:08:40   infrastructure gets bought by their competition. I'm not sure

00:08:44   that's a good thing for Apple even if Apple is right in saying

00:08:48   guys we don't you know we don't want to make a smart switch right like I get why

00:08:51   they don't although I think they could make one and

00:08:54   have big margins on it and sell it at the Apple store and make a lot of money

00:08:56   but that's another thing I mentioned in that

00:08:59   article but anyway I just I'm fascinated about where Apple stands currently

00:09:03   in the home smart home market and what that might mean in the long run

00:09:08   now that they've made this new hire what's his role is his role to really

00:09:11   expand what Apple does or is it his role to do what Apple's been doing

00:09:15   up to now which is kind of just I don't know having a lot of remove from

00:09:20   it doing some infrastructure stuff in terms of like HomeKit but otherwise

00:09:24   sort of saying we're not going to play here at all

00:09:27   so we have a quick piece of upstream news it was the Oscars last night

00:09:31   and Netflix have picked up a selection of Oscars

00:09:35   um yeah they did not get best picture for Roma which

00:09:39   they were clearly going for but they got maybe second best they got best uh

00:09:44   Afonso CuarĂ³n the best director Oscar yep uh for for the movie Roma they also

00:09:49   won best foreign language film and best

00:09:52   cinematography three ain't bad for one movie it's not

00:09:56   bad they had I think one previous feature

00:09:59   Oscar before so this is this is they got three this year

00:10:02   they were hoping for best picture I am not an Oscar handicapper but I will say

00:10:07   I'm kind of not surprised like the fact that Roma didn't win

00:10:11   makes me feel like there's a section of the academy

00:10:15   voting group that is just down on a Netflix movie winning

00:10:19   they did not want them to win yeah and it's a ranked choice

00:10:22   they they rank them all from top to bottom and so like it wouldn't surprise

00:10:26   me if there are a bunch of people who are like

00:10:27   I'm not even going to put a Netflix movie there was somebody in the in the

00:10:31   industry um in the last week and I forget who it

00:10:34   was maybe it was a theater owner but somebody actually referred to Roma as

00:10:37   a TV movie which I thought was like come on man come on but that was like there

00:10:41   are people who have that that are that angry about

00:10:45   Netflix playing in the Oscars at all because they feel like it's a

00:10:49   an assault on the livelihood of the of the movie industry

00:10:52   and so um it doesn't surprise me that it that it didn't win uh my gut feeling

00:10:58   being that that's why it didn't win by the way I saw Roma this weekend it's

00:11:02   spectacularly good I will say that is a very very very good

00:11:07   movie so I'm sort of sad that it didn't win

00:11:10   best picture um but uh I'm glad that it won what it did

00:11:13   but yes so Netflix the the Netflix wanting to win awards

00:11:18   uh story continues it's it's progressed but not maybe as far as they hoped

00:11:22   and our favorite spider-man into the spider-verse won

00:11:25   uh best best animation which is yeah that was really isn't that funny

00:11:30   I mean that's such a great story where everybody assumed that the winner would

00:11:33   be one of these other powerhouse animated movies um especially

00:11:37   like Incredibles 2 but there was like so many movies that there's a

00:11:40   prestige animated movie and there's like the winners in the category almost every

00:11:44   year and then into the spider-verse came out

00:11:46   and everybody said oh no this is one of the best movies of the year

00:11:49   uh this should totally win and it did which was which was really great to see

00:11:53   so I was happy about that too and I am I'll just I'll just make a shout

00:11:57   out a uh an elementary school friend of mine a childhood friend of mine

00:12:01   uh was up for best documentary short subject and he lost

00:12:07   but um his name was read on stage and what they do with the people who are in

00:12:12   the awards that are um they don't get a good seat they're

00:12:14   seated far away is they bring all the nominees up

00:12:17   they have these two little rows off to the left you might have seen them during

00:12:20   the show sometimes they didn't even have I saw

00:12:23   somebody tweeting about like why are there empty seats at the front of the

00:12:25   stage and the answer is well they're moving

00:12:27   the old uh nominee group out and the new nominee group in because that's

00:12:31   one way they tried to speed up the show is that you can't have people coming

00:12:35   from 90 rows back um anyway uh my friend sky was in the

00:12:39   front uh on the aisle front row when his category was announced and he

00:12:45   didn't win it but I was like oh that's sky that's great so the kid I played on

00:12:49   the playground at Columbia Elementary School and

00:12:52   in Columbia California was nominated and uh and was there and I got to see him

00:12:58   and they said his name and that was pretty awesome

00:12:59   so his movie was life boat but it didn't win

00:13:03   never mind but that's still great a nomination

00:13:06   that's pretty amazing I think that that'll take you some places

00:13:10   all right today's episode is brought to you in part by our friends

00:13:14   over at Green Chef. Green Chef is a meal delivery service that includes

00:13:19   everything that you're going to need to make delicious gourmet meals at home

00:13:24   that you will be able to cook and feel good about. Green Chef sends a wide

00:13:28   variety of organic ingredients and imaginative new recipes to your home

00:13:32   every week their meal plans include options for paleo

00:13:35   vegan vegetarian keto gluten-free omnivore and carnivore diets this is

00:13:40   what really sets Green Chef apart they are also the first USDA certified

00:13:44   organic meal delivery service every ingredient that Green Chef will

00:13:48   send you is thoughtfully sourced and its journey is tracked from planting to

00:13:52   plating the recipes include pre-made sauces

00:13:54   dressings and spices as well so you can get more flavor in your meals

00:13:58   with less time for you to work on Jason Snell I

00:14:02   understand that our friends at Green Chef sent you a box of lovely

00:14:06   ingredients yes we have been feasting upon the Green

00:14:10   Chef for the last couple of weeks

00:14:14   anyway the yes it's very good and I was I was really impressed

00:14:18   with the packaging one of the things that we noticed about the packaging is

00:14:20   that it's it is kind of uh sanely packaged there's

00:14:25   not a lot of plastic wrapping and stuff it's it's good ingredients

00:14:29   proportioned well and then also um I like that they used a lot of uh they

00:14:33   have like little paper shells and there's a minimum of plastic in the box

00:14:36   and I thought that was all pretty good too so

00:14:38   yeah and good and we've had some several good meals even

00:14:41   complaining children uh did not complain as much

00:14:44   I'm not gonna say didn't complain at all because that never happens but did not

00:14:47   complain as much so that was a win that's a win that's a big

00:14:50   win with Green Chef it's easy to maintain especially your diet and enjoy

00:14:54   exciting new options as well and anybody can be a cook with Green Chef's help for

00:14:58   50 of your first box of Green Chef go to

00:15:02   greenchef.us/upgrade that's g-r-e-e-n-c-h-e-f dot u-s

00:15:09   slash upgrade that's greenchef.us/upgrade for 50 dollars

00:15:13   of your first box of Green Chef our thanks to Green Chef for their support

00:15:17   of this show and relay fm all right Jason Snell

00:15:21   it is mobile world congress right now and we just had

00:15:25   Samsung unpacked which is Samsung's kind of that's the branding for their events

00:15:29   that they do and some of the big trends coming out of

00:15:33   the Samsung event the s10 by the way I think it looks really cool but we're not

00:15:36   going to get into that today we're going to talk about foldables and

00:15:40   I would say at this point that is the name of the category now

00:15:44   foldables I don't think that was a thing that really existed before the last few

00:15:48   days there was like a lot of like oh folding phones foldable phones

00:15:51   they're called foldables now like phablets for phablets we have foldables

00:15:55   and we spoke about this a number of weeks ago as we were building up to

00:15:59   these events as kind of like would apple do this and what that might

00:16:02   look like that was on episode 229 so you can go and check that out there

00:16:08   if you want to get more details but I wanted to talk about the two

00:16:12   big phones that have been announced in the last week which is the Samsung

00:16:15   Galaxy Fold and the Huawei Mate 10 so Jason if you

00:16:19   will permit me I would like to talk about some of the specs

00:16:22   and some of the features of these two phones and then we can kind of compare

00:16:25   them a little bit with our thoughts on how they look and

00:16:27   how they seem to be acting so Samsung Galaxy Fold has two displays

00:16:32   there is a 4.6 inch display on the outside and then you

00:16:36   open it up to see a 7.3 inch display on the inside it has half a

00:16:40   terabyte of storage and 12 gigabytes of ram

00:16:43   12 gigabytes of ram in a thing you're holding your hands

00:16:47   so much it has two batteries of course one in each side

00:16:51   and their hinge system is this like fancy

00:16:54   thing full of gears they showed this animation it looked

00:16:58   bonkers okay the Galaxy Fold has five cameras

00:17:01   it has three cameras on the outside and two cameras on the inside

00:17:06   and Samsung has also been doing some work with some large developers and

00:17:09   they've got some SDK information to enable

00:17:12   three app multitasking in the Galaxy Fold

00:17:15   it's going to be shipping in April April 26th

00:17:18   and it will cost 1980 dollars we'll get to the prices later because

00:17:24   that's like a whole separate discussion and nobody was allowed to touch it or

00:17:27   even see it off of the stage I believe there is which suggests that this is a

00:17:31   product that doesn't really quite exist yet like literally at the Samsung event

00:17:35   nobody saw it the only time people saw it with their

00:17:38   own eyes was basically on stage they have it in a case reminiscent of the

00:17:42   first iPhone on the show floor at Mobile World

00:17:45   Congress there you go there you go it's like the

00:17:49   original iPhone or the Mac Pro right which is

00:17:51   probably for say the same reason as those devices were

00:17:54   encased in glass because it's not done they've got a couple of months left to

00:17:59   finish the software don't touch it yeah and then we've got

00:18:03   the Huawei Mate 10 so this phone is a little thinner than

00:18:05   the Galaxy Fold it has a bigger screen and it folds more flat when closed

00:18:10   so the Galaxy Fold it kind of has like a small gap

00:18:14   towards the hinge when you close it up but it's not it's not as bad as our

00:18:17   friend the Royale Flex Pie of Cheese the biggest difference between the Mate

00:18:21   10 and the Fold and this is where I think the the ideological war will be

00:18:26   waged over the next year or two the Huawei Mate 10 screen folds

00:18:32   outwards not inwards so it has one screen and it folds

00:18:36   outwards so the the Galaxy Fold it's kind of like a book where you open it up

00:18:40   and the screen's inside but the Huawei it folds in the opposite

00:18:43   direction so it's an eight inch OLED display when you fold it up you get a

00:18:48   6.6 inch main display which is the one you're

00:18:52   using and then a 6.4 inch rear display on the back

00:18:55   and there is a grip section kind of reminiscent of the kindle oasis

00:18:59   which is where the cameras are so there's like a chunkier section that you

00:19:02   can hold on to and that's also where the the folded

00:19:05   side clips into it has like a latch it also

00:19:09   features half a terabyte storage only only has eight gigabytes of ram

00:19:13   and the Huawei Mate 10 will start at two thousand six hundred dollars

00:19:18   and shipping quote in the middle of this year

00:19:22   so these are two very different phones kind of in design they're doing the same

00:19:28   thing very very differently um do you have a

00:19:32   favorite of these design wise oh you're gonna set me up

00:19:37   here because i know we disagree on this so uh you're gonna set me up to go first

00:19:40   that's fine that's fine i could do it yeah i think i think no how much should

00:19:44   i overplay this no reasonable person will disagree with

00:19:47   me um that the uh i think the Huawei

00:19:52   one looks way better right but that you are in the consensus from people that

00:19:56   i've been seeing online i think most people prefer

00:19:58   the look of the Huawei phone yeah yeah and i've got lots of reasons why i mean

00:20:02   i think the Galaxy Fold like uh when it's in its folded configuration i

00:20:06   think it looks way stranger than the the Huawei phone does weird that

00:20:10   it's like super skinny and the display is like in the middle and

00:20:14   you can't even call it a bezel because it's so huge like the bezel that goes

00:20:18   around the screen it does look really weird it's very

00:20:20   thick and the way they've engineered it it is um

00:20:24   it's thick and the folding part like it doesn't quite

00:20:27   touch um you know because it can't fold completely flat

00:20:31   and so it's got this kind of space that's like

00:20:35   the hole in the donut yeah that is very strange why has the space but it's way

00:20:40   more uniform and way smaller like the gap in between

00:20:42   what Huawei has done has they've made that grip section which reminded me of

00:20:46   like the grip on my kindle oasis is actually kind of like

00:20:48   this too but what they've done is the grip

00:20:50   is not just a grip and a place where your sensor bar

00:20:54   is but it's also there so that when you fold

00:20:58   the phone back around itself um it the the screen comes level

00:21:03   basically to the grip and so you create this

00:21:07   um like sort of sandwich instead of the donut

00:21:11   that's it i prefer the sandwich to the donut hole is what i'm saying mike

00:21:14   and this is we're gonna have to find better words to describe these products

00:21:18   as the foldable uh ideological wars continue

00:21:23   so i okay i prefer the the design of the fold and i know i'm in the minority

00:21:29   and i have a few things for this i think that the mate 10

00:21:32   looks less premium um if you've seen any pictures of this

00:21:35   the hinge is super weird looking i think compared to the uh folds hinge i think

00:21:42   that the galaxy fold is a more premium looking product in in

00:21:47   general we need to come back to that because i

00:21:49   feel like every single early folding phone is just going to be a game of hide

00:21:53   the hinge right like how do we deal with the fact

00:21:55   that we've got to have this weird superstructure

00:21:58   to make our uh display not crumple exactly and i think that samsung has

00:22:04   done a better job of like building it as part of the design and

00:22:09   making it attractive like they're even allowing customization of the color of

00:22:12   the hinge on the phone where huawei i think it's

00:22:16   more a little bit rough and ready right like it's kind of looks like a

00:22:20   inner tube or something i could see it's like a super strange looking design to

00:22:24   me but the overall product probably does

00:22:27   look better on the huawei but i'm thinking about like if i'm

00:22:30   gonna own one of these i'm thinking about like the long-term usability

00:22:34   and uh i was watching a youtube video from super saff and he pointed out like

00:22:39   how durable are these displays gonna be because they're made of plastic because

00:22:43   glass can't fold yet i don't know if it ever will be able

00:22:46   to or there'll be something in the middle but like if the screen's on the

00:22:49   outside always is it likely to get scratched

00:22:54   i don't know well that that's one of the the things

00:22:58   the market may and long-term use by people will

00:23:02   reveal but you're right like one of the fundamental differences we can talk

00:23:05   about the look and feel here one of the fundamental design choices that samsung

00:23:08   made that huawei did not make is adding a second screen and folding the

00:23:13   big screen in on itself to theoretically protect it from the

00:23:17   environment whereas huawei is completely in on the idea

00:23:21   that your entire phone is going to be exposed to the world as

00:23:25   a screen like the front of the screen like we make a big deal about like oh

00:23:29   apple did glass on the front and back of their phones now you can scratch or

00:23:33   break but like the huawei it's literally your

00:23:35   screen all the way around and that means that you've got twice the surface area

00:23:40   exposed to the world in terms of scratches you can't literally can't lay

00:23:44   it down on a table on its back because it has no

00:23:48   back really it's all screen and you know

00:23:52   samsung i gotta say samsung has a little bit of

00:23:55   home field advantage here right because they've been building these screens

00:23:58   and they uh have experience with them probably that nobody else has

00:24:03   this is why i look at it i'm like oh okay like i know like samsung we're not

00:24:07   gonna we're not gonna open it to the world

00:24:09   right they know samsung knows that so like my other thing on this as

00:24:14   well of like kind of having a preference for the for the

00:24:17   samsung line is i believe if any company is going to make this

00:24:21   work samsung will be the company to make it work

00:24:25   because they have a history of making really weird

00:24:32   phones and turning them into products that make sense down the line

00:24:37   like the note line right when the first note came out it

00:24:41   seemed ridiculous but they eventually not only have made that a great product

00:24:46   but have pushed a lot of smartphone design towards what the original note

00:24:50   did in the first place right like if you just look at screen size as one

00:24:53   of the bigger things right that was the first big phone and now all

00:24:58   phones are that big i would probably i mean i haven't looked

00:25:00   this up but i bet most regular phones now are bigger than the original note

00:25:04   was the screen size yeah probably but so my thinking is

00:25:08   like the fold has some real awkwardness about it which i think is that that

00:25:14   front screen but when they eventually get to like fold two or fold three where

00:25:19   they can tighten the gap up and make that front screen

00:25:22   a more regular looking phone and then have the open screen in the in the middle

00:25:27   i think that it will become a much more compelling product

00:25:30   um i mean let alone the fact that huawei have

00:25:33   significant issues trying to sell their products worldwide worldwide right now

00:25:37   like you will not be able to buy the huawei mate 10 in america like you just

00:25:40   won't be able to do that so that's gonna hold them back a little

00:25:44   bit irrespective of it um one of the bigger one of the big

00:25:47   issues um and one of the things that i'm interested to see how it'll eventually

00:25:51   play out is creases creases in the screens you can see them

00:25:54   like if you look at videos and gifs and images

00:25:57   you can see like the the the galaxy fold has kind of a real thin line that goes

00:26:03   down the middle and the huawei has like a book spine

00:26:07   basically it looks like that goes down the middle

00:26:10   this is just going to be another one of those things that it's going to look

00:26:13   real bad in these first ones but they're gonna they will eventually

00:26:16   get there the same with software you know you mentioned like nobody's

00:26:19   really allowed to touch these devices yet

00:26:22   um huawei are letting people touch it today but they're not really allowed to

00:26:25   use it um the software is going to be an

00:26:27   absolute dumpster fire for a while even when it comes out it's going to be

00:26:31   janky as hell because this is like fundamentally a different experience

00:26:38   to any phone that's come before right and like

00:26:41   again i also have faith in samsung's ability just because of their size and

00:26:46   scale as a company to be able to get more companies on board

00:26:50   and like they they mentioned like whatsapp and office and and like google

00:26:56   working with them on making the kind of they call it app

00:26:59   continuity where you have you're looking at it on the front screen

00:27:03   and you open it up and then it's in a bigger view

00:27:05   and i think it looks really cool i will say jason you can probably tell

00:27:09   i'm really excited about this trend i don't think that either of these phones

00:27:15   are like what this is gonna be oh no no you gotta start somewhere right yeah and

00:27:20   i feel like as well these two devices are a lot better than i expected the

00:27:25   first foldables to be like i was expecting them to look way

00:27:29   more like the royale flex pi than these devices right well i was

00:27:33   gonna say um you i'm glad you mentioned look because

00:27:37   these devices will ship and it's going to be like a disaster right like they're

00:27:41   going to have all sorts of things wrong with them

00:27:42   and that's part of the process i don't think anybody is uh

00:27:45   people who act shocked are silly people that you shouldn't pay attention to when

00:27:49   they when it turns out that there are all sorts of issues with these

00:27:51   first-generation foldables because uh that's going to happen but uh but uh

00:27:55   as you pointed out like they they look they look better than then again in two

00:27:59   years we'll look at these and we'll be like

00:28:00   wow those were terrible yeah like look at those ridiculous hinges can you even

00:28:04   believe they're creases yeah now we have this magic foldable glass

00:28:07   that nobody knew that we existed there's a really nice we put in the show notes

00:28:10   there's a really nice um link to a thread on twitter by

00:28:13   stephen sinofsky who of course worked at microsoft and has lots of very smart

00:28:16   things to say about technology on twitter um and he he links in it to a different

00:28:20   thread he did like i don't know a couple months ago about foldable phones but his

00:28:24   point and it's a point that i made in a in a mac world or no a tom's guide column

00:28:28   a while back too um you know talking about apple in in the

00:28:31   context of this too it's like uh what what sinofsky says is very much

00:28:35   what we've been saying um it's early days these first products are going to be

00:28:38   ridiculous um there's a software issue i mean he

00:28:42   knows this from having been at microsoft uh when they

00:28:45   were trying to put a touch interface in like part of the issue here too is like

00:28:48   what's google going to do with android and where is it going to bend over

00:28:52   backward to help uh its vendors with stuff like this because it does do that

00:28:56   sometimes remember it came out with like ways of doing notches and and and stuff

00:29:00   oh i 100 believe that one of the next that android q

00:29:04   one of its things will be supporting uh flexible displays

00:29:08   like like like they did in in pi with notches

00:29:12   like they built exactly a bunch of notch support exactly so

00:29:15   so but it's still an open question of like where do they throw

00:29:19   do they throw their weight behind what samsung is doing where there's like a

00:29:22   single screen that becomes two screens or do they put effort into something

00:29:26   because if they think that what huawei is doing has merit

00:29:29   um they could for example um build it so that you can more easily

00:29:36   put um you know different status information

00:29:39   on the front and back of the screen when folded or something like that right like

00:29:42   there are things they could do or they could be like no we're not going to

00:29:44   support that like when it's folded we're just going to put status on the front

00:29:46   and there's nothing on the back and forget it right like they could

00:29:49   it's sort of like going to be interesting to see what their

00:29:52   where they place their bets in terms of their resources that they're putting in

00:29:55   and and because again if we don't really know how these foldable phones are going

00:29:59   to work ultimately if you're google you you know you're

00:30:02   probably not going to be able to support every possible configuration

00:30:06   so you may make some bets and that will be interesting to see

00:30:09   and then sinosky's other point that i thought was really good is something

00:30:12   about apple which is you know everybody's gonna say apple's behind but

00:30:15   apple and i i would argue maybe google with their hardware as well had the

00:30:20   great advantage of sitting and watching these other companies spend all this

00:30:23   money and also let's let's be clear is apple

00:30:26   building foldable iphones inside apple as prototypes to try

00:30:30   and figure out what the right way to do it is

00:30:32   they undoubtedly they have been doing that for years now years

00:30:35   they've been they've been doing as soon as they could get like these screens

00:30:38   from samsung for like crazy amounts of money just so they

00:30:42   could prototype with them sure bought them right like yeah every time samsung

00:30:45   comes up with anything you know apple's buying it

00:30:48   right like okay let's just get this screen and see what we can do with it

00:30:51   because you'd be silly not to and apple also has an advantage that

00:30:54   sinosky points out which is apple actually is further along in terms of

00:30:58   dealing with these larger screens because apple has the advantage

00:31:01   of having introduced the ipad nine years ago and having it be successful

00:31:06   and having it have lots of apps that run on it whereas

00:31:10   android has not had as great a success with that and so there's a little more

00:31:15   work to do there so apple's got some advantages as well

00:31:18   because of the ipad to go into a larger foldable device so

00:31:22   i think that um apple's not behind even though pundits will probably say

00:31:27   that that they are watching closely and making and will make

00:31:30   their move and as sinofsky points out like apple is the

00:31:34   ship it when it's ready at volume and uh is the sort of seal of approval on the

00:31:40   market in a sense it's like oh okay mom and dad are here now right like

00:31:44   now we're now it's gotten serious because we've exited the throwing things

00:31:48   against the wall to see what sticks mode now apple can go too early and they can

00:31:53   go too late but they're generally they've generally historically been

00:31:57   pretty good about hitting it pretty close to on the nose

00:32:00   um in fact i think the the large phone thing was a

00:32:04   counter example where their um philosophy

00:32:07   of what made a good iphone got in the way of the reality of the market but we

00:32:10   we've seen through patent filings and things that apple has been

00:32:13   on this idea for a long time um in fact it wouldn't surprise me if they

00:32:19   were prototyping foldable iphone designs before they were foldable screens

00:32:23   ready for them like just as a test of what would we do

00:32:27   with this just to get out in front of it and i

00:32:30   think uh i think this category like look this

00:32:33   category could be a loser you know in the end and this is why i

00:32:37   want to say this as fascinating as this is from just a pure tech enthusiasm

00:32:41   perspective of like oh my god this is like a science fictional product

00:32:44   that's come to be reality i think there is truth in the fact that

00:32:48   this is all being driven by the idea that with

00:32:50   oled technology you have the ability to make flexible

00:32:54   screens and once you're at that point everybody

00:32:57   says oh flexible screens that means we can make

00:33:01   foldable smartphones so let's make those it's not motivated by

00:33:07   a desire necessarily at least not primarily motivated by a desire in the

00:33:12   market for a foldable phone it's more like the technology lets us do

00:33:15   this and this is this is where apple secret sauce comes in honestly and i know

00:33:20   at this point apple's not a secret everybody knows about apple and there

00:33:22   are lots of companies trying to do ways and things in the way

00:33:25   that apple does and that includes huawei and samsung they're trying to figure this

00:33:30   out they do it in public apple does it in

00:33:32   private but i i think the larger point here is

00:33:35   the the magic moment in technology whether you're apple or someone else

00:33:40   is that moment when you can take what technology is possible

00:33:46   and use it to create a product that serves

00:33:50   a need or solves a problem and right now i think we can see that

00:33:56   there is a problem which is that people like bigger screens

00:34:00   but at some point i think the perception is

00:34:04   they won't fit in your pocket like people like bigger screen phones

00:34:08   they might like tablets some people love tablets but a tablet won't fit in your

00:34:12   pocket and maybe that's the thing the problem

00:34:15   this solves i i don't want to leave i don't want to

00:34:19   close off the possibility that that is not a problem and that

00:34:22   nobody wants this because i think it's at least a

00:34:25   possibility so i'm not ready to go 100 and say this is our this is our foldable

00:34:30   future it may be further off than we think

00:34:33   because in the end this may be so costly have so

00:34:36   many issues and solve a problem that is not perceived as a problem by most of

00:34:40   the market that it's just not going to be a big deal

00:34:42   but it might and i think if you're somebody at apple

00:34:46   who's working on this stuff and filing patents for the last three or four years

00:34:49   that's the debate right which is like how can we do this in a way that

00:34:52   makes sense and that people are delighted by because it

00:34:56   makes their experience better because right now a lot of this stuff is very

00:35:00   much like hey i've got a screen that can fold let's

00:35:02   make a phone that can fold around it and that doesn't that doesn't

00:35:06   say anything about the people who want to buy it it just says we have

00:35:09   cool tech let's stick it in a product and

00:35:12   that's the for the the that's the difference between the art and the

00:35:15   science here and that's why i think you and i are so fascinated by this is

00:35:19   like how do you how we don't know how wide the chasm is we

00:35:23   don't know whether somebody's going to be able to jump

00:35:25   across it uh whether it's going to happen i'm going to take this metaphor a

00:35:28   little bit further whether it's going to happen now or

00:35:30   whether or it's going to take years and we're going to have to bring in some

00:35:33   heavy equipment to build a bridge across this chasm or if it's

00:35:36   simply unbridgeable because nobody wants to go over there

00:35:38   and we don't know and samsung and huawei don't know and

00:35:42   apple doesn't know and google doesn't know but

00:35:45   um this tech is here now so everybody's going to give it a shot in

00:35:50   their own way and we'll see and that to me that is one of the most

00:35:54   entertaining things about following technology because this could be

00:35:59   transformative or it could be nothing we don't know we don't know i wanted to

00:36:04   just touch on the price angle real quick before we move on because these

00:36:07   these are expensive right they're starting at 1980

00:36:10   1,980 but like or or the or what is it 2,600 for the other one so yeah

00:36:17   yeah that's i really am intrigued as to why the prices are so different

00:36:21   like are getting samsung willing to take more of a hit on it i don't know

00:36:25   um but it may i mean is anyone surprised like it's two

00:36:32   smartphones stuck together essentially right is what's going on here that

00:36:36   especially when you look at like the samsung they're doubling up a lot of

00:36:39   components and i just wanted to like you know the

00:36:42   cutting edge right there's a lot of uh a lot of like the design and the the

00:36:47   rnd is going into this cost um and it will come down over time but i

00:36:52   just wanted to mention like it's so you got 512 gigabytes of

00:36:56   storage right the 10s max at 512 gigabytes of storage

00:37:01   is 1449 dollars which is 500 cheaper

00:37:06   than the folding phone that doesn't seem like a bit as big a difference as i

00:37:11   would have expected um so you know i just wanted to mention

00:37:15   that like because i i've been talking about this online and people like oh

00:37:19   apple will make it cheaper i don't think they will yeah i think i

00:37:22   think you're right in fact this is if we know anything look at the iphone 10 the

00:37:25   iphone 10 brought in new tech that allowed apple to

00:37:28   charge 300 more than they previously charged for their phones

00:37:32   right that's essentially what they did so it's not at all

00:37:36   far-fetched to look at something like folding phone technology and say well

00:37:39   when apple does make a folding iphone that is one that they're going to charge

00:37:42   500 more for yep because otherwise don't get the folding

00:37:46   phone like you have to pay more there's more tech in here costs more

00:37:49   um i'll also point out early generation stuff that does what no stuff did before

00:37:56   like is expensive the original mac cost 2500 which in today's money is 6200

00:38:04   for that little original mac it was a it was really expensive

00:38:08   and it took a long time for the mac to come down in price

00:38:12   and that's just that's that original tech like you're paying the people who

00:38:16   buy a two thousand dollar folding samsung phone are doing it because they want to

00:38:20   be on the super cutting edge and maybe

00:38:23   don't care about the fact that it's not practical

00:38:26   and are willing to pay for it and you know good luck to those

00:38:30   people but right now like as you say of course it's going to be

00:38:35   massively expensive because as well samsung and huawei do not expect to sell

00:38:39   a lot of these they they don't right like this is probably something that's

00:38:44   really difficult to make and they're probably not going to make

00:38:46   that many of them and they probably don't expect to sell that many of them

00:38:49   but that's not the point of the first one the first one is like let's get it

00:38:53   out there let's see what people think about it

00:38:56   let's actually do something for all of the research and development that we put

00:39:00   into it and then move ahead all right today's show

00:39:04   is brought to you by lunar display now i love my lunar display

00:39:08   it's fun like lunar display is almost like a foldable display for your mac i

00:39:13   guess you could just you know lg did this jason they're

00:39:15   bringing out a case which has a second display

00:39:18   that's the the way they're dealing with the foldable display thing you can just

00:39:21   buy a case for your lg display lg phone and it's just a

00:39:25   second display and i think that's their that's their

00:39:28   answer just solved solved it's all taken care of but lunar

00:39:32   display is the hardware solution it turns your ipad into a wireless display

00:39:35   for your mac meaning you'll have a second display

00:39:38   that is super portable with basically zero lag and stunning image quality

00:39:42   i use my lunar display every single day now

00:39:45   because i am somebody who loves to work on the ipad but i totally understand

00:39:50   that sometimes the apps that i use just won't let me do things the way that i

00:39:53   want to do them so now i can just open my lunar

00:39:56   display which is attached to a mac mini which sits in my office

00:39:59   and i can take care of what i need to take care of and get it done

00:40:02   like sometimes i want to be able to access like a full version of a web

00:40:06   browser like say like youtube or something

00:40:08   the youtube creator app and you trying to use youtube on the ipad is just

00:40:12   a disaster they just won't let it happen so i just open up lunar display and i

00:40:16   can go into the youtube creator studio and get what i need done

00:40:19   what i love about lunar display for me personally is that i basically have mac

00:40:23   os as an app on my ipad but it can be used for way more than

00:40:26   that you can use it for extra screen real estate where you're sitting at your

00:40:30   desk and getting stuff done maybe when you're traveling and you're

00:40:32   using a laptop and you need a second display with you you can even just

00:40:35   plug it in over usb rather than using the wi-fi

00:40:39   connection at home and you can have your lunar display

00:40:42   working and ready to go right there it's so simple to set up

00:40:45   and you're going to love that extra screen real estate lunar display

00:40:49   supports external keyboards it supports the ipad smart keyboard and

00:40:53   apple pencil as well and touch interactions it basically turns

00:40:57   your mac into a touchscreen device and the all-new liquid video engine with

00:41:01   lunar display brings significantly reduced latency

00:41:03   and faster screen refresh rate a faster screen refresh rate than ever before i

00:41:07   absolutely love it listeners of this show can get a 10

00:41:10   exclusive discount on lunar display just go to l-u-n-a-d-i-s-p-l-a-y.com

00:41:17   and use the promo code upgrade at checkout that is lunar display.com promo

00:41:21   code upgrade at checkout to get your 10 off go there right now

00:41:26   upgrade your setup you're gonna love it thanks to lunar display for their

00:41:30   support of this show and all of relay fm all right so uh mark german had a report

00:41:37   about marzipan um do you know what i found interesting

00:41:40   about this report i know it's just german's name

00:41:42   um yes report which is different uh i'm starting to think jason

00:41:46   that there's something about where the information is coming from

00:41:50   and who's writing the reports and then kind of how the reports

00:41:54   feel at bloomberg like i haven't put my finger on it yet but like

00:41:58   this one's pretty concise but anyway uh basically

00:42:01   the thing to take away from this is a timeline

00:42:04   of marzipan and for the refresher marzipan is ios apps running on the mac

00:42:10   this was project sneak peek shown off at wwdc last year

00:42:14   which brought with it the news app and the home app onto the mac

00:42:18   for very ios e apps so this is the timeline

00:42:21   at wwdc 2019 developers will get the tools that they need to help them port

00:42:25   ipad apps to the mac in wwdc 2020 this support will extend for

00:42:30   iphone apps and then wwdc 2021 the ability to merge

00:42:35   iphone ipad and mac apps into a new universal app for customers to buy what

00:42:41   do you think of that timeline jason does that

00:42:42   max does that like pass the sense check for you

00:42:46   yeah i i think so right like obviously apple has said that in 2019 developers

00:42:51   are going to get tools to do this um i'm a little bit baffled by

00:42:57   the iphone in 2020 um you know we only have like two sentences

00:43:03   from mark german on this so everybody is trying to extrapolate here

00:43:06   um best i can come up with because like again i think of iphone apps and i think

00:43:12   well you know i could get a little iphone app in a window on my mac and

00:43:14   that would be fine i think what apple's thinking here

00:43:17   is they're thinking about laptops because that's two-thirds of the mac

00:43:21   are laptops and they're thinking about having something that can fill the

00:43:27   screen not that it has to fill the screen but i

00:43:29   think they're thinking about it that way and the problem with the iphone

00:43:32   as any ipad user knows is that iphone apps don't work right they

00:43:36   are you know they're orientation locked and they're scaled and they're

00:43:40   they're weird and i think maybe that's what apple is

00:43:44   is talking about here but i'm a little bit strange like support would be apple

00:43:48   added for iphone i don't know why apple wouldn't just say

00:43:52   look iphone apps run in a in a little window

00:43:56   and uh if you want to make a universal app you want to make an app that runs on

00:43:59   i ipad and mac you need to add that i'm not quite

00:44:03   sure why there's an interim step where they say

00:44:06   oh now we're going to add support unless it's some other technological

00:44:11   um update that apple is doing that makes iphone

00:44:14   apps scale better like you know what i mean like

00:44:19   tools that make the iphone apps more kind of intelligently

00:44:23   scale or they're thinking about some other kind of multitasking interface

00:44:26   that allows them to be i'm just i'm a little bit i'm a little

00:44:29   bit baffled by that but it may just be like tools to make people who have

00:44:32   iphone apps get them to run on ipad and mac

00:44:35   more quickly more easily than any anything else because so i i that's a

00:44:40   that's a that's a question mark for me like what

00:44:43   is that what 2020 is all going to be about they're going to do presumably

00:44:46   2020 will also be about lots of improvements to the marzipan

00:44:50   stuff that drops in 2019 and maybe they're anticipating that that's going

00:44:53   to be a more painful conversion um also 2020 the suggestion is that

00:44:57   that's when the arm max start to appear so maybe

00:45:00   there's like enough going on in 2020 that they're like this is all we're

00:45:03   going to do for now and then in 2021 we end up with the idea

00:45:08   of you know these these end up getting converged together

00:45:10   where you can build them in a single binary and they can basically be on

00:45:14   on any of the you know on the mac app store the ios app store maybe the app

00:45:18   stores come together in some way um and that makes sense so it's not a lot

00:45:22   of new stuff here it feels a little bit more

00:45:25   like this is kind of apple's um rollout strategy in terms of some

00:45:29   milestones like so that they can constrain what the um

00:45:34   what the work is for 2019 like they know there's going to be more work required

00:45:37   in 2020 and 2021 so they're they're setting their agenda for what's

00:45:42   going to fit into 2020 which 2019 which presumably they have now

00:45:45   right like yeah wwc coming in uh you know kind of soon

00:45:51   at this point i mean i know it's four months away

00:45:54   but uh it's coming soon three it's all yeah it's almost three months away so

00:45:58   um so yeah i i i'm a little bit baffled by some of the details here but

00:46:04   it's not surprising this is going to be we've said it this is a many years

00:46:08   process of trying to unify the application

00:46:10   platforms you know is it three years probably more like five years to get to

00:46:15   a very different place where there's a unified

00:46:18   apple application platform which doesn't necessarily mean that the mac

00:46:21   application uh platform will go away but that they

00:46:25   the the new one is this unified uh thing across ios and mac so if

00:46:33   ipad apps come to the mac there is a question

00:46:37   about if any changes will be made to the mac to make ipad apps feel more

00:46:44   at home and this is an article that you wrote about a couple of weeks ago and

00:46:48   we've been saving this topic and it's kind of

00:46:50   perfectly dovetails with this marzipan uh extension of the marzipan rumors so

00:46:56   you pose the question in a mac wall column

00:46:58   what if apple uses mac os 10.15 to further unify the interfaces of its

00:47:05   platforms so let's not say and what we're not

00:47:09   saying here is this is the unification but what if it

00:47:13   was a little bit more like when apple did that back to the mac event

00:47:17   where they introduced a bunch of ios-like designs to applications on the

00:47:22   mac so like is it a sensible path to

00:47:26   consider that marzipan might work a little bit more easily

00:47:31   if the operating systems share some common design elements at least

00:47:36   yeah and i think marzipan is not necessarily even the reason you do it

00:47:40   but i think the reason you do it is that apple wants consistency across its

00:47:45   product lines and marzipan is a symptom of the fact that apple has

00:47:49   decided that it wants much more

00:47:53   similarity between mac and ios products than maybe it has had

00:47:57   before and you're right the mac to the mac was a great example of like no we

00:48:00   want to make the um the mac have stuff that's going

00:48:05   to be familiar to ios users there are way more ios users than mac

00:48:08   users right so there's a huge advantage for apple

00:48:11   and having max feel more like ios and i know that makes mac

00:48:15   users uncomfortable and i am one of them you know a mac user i'm not super

00:48:19   uncomfortable because i like ios too i think

00:48:21   i think apple's theory is most mac users like ios and

00:48:25   you know and ios users would be more comfortable on the mac if it was more

00:48:28   like ios therefore they should push in that direction and

00:48:32   so marzipan is an example where the app platform comes over but

00:48:35   this article was like do you also at this point start to say

00:48:40   there's stuff in the mac that is not really

00:48:43   anything like um ios and maybe it could be more like ios are there other

00:48:48   features that we could make a little more

00:48:51   you know apple like more like unified across just because

00:48:55   it's better if people don't say well wait a second your apple why is

00:48:59   why do you do it this way on this device and this way on the other device

00:49:02   which i think is a strong argument like oh yeah we shouldn't do that

00:49:05   we should probably be these all these devices should probably be as similar as

00:49:09   possible in terms of the language they use the

00:49:11   interfaces they use to do certain things so i tried to imagine it and this is one

00:49:15   of those things where it's like all the things that will infuriate

00:49:17   long time mac users if they're in the next version of mac os

00:49:21   right like what did you do why is it like this now

00:49:24   but it kind of makes sense to do it that way

00:49:29   okay i keep coming back to something that continues to be a surprise to me it

00:49:33   was even more so this year when we look at the upgradees and we try

00:49:37   and think of mac apps and what makes a mac app mac like and like even

00:49:42   this year we awarded audio hijack the upgrade

00:49:46   because it was the probably the most new uh well like the most mac like app we

00:49:51   could think of and that was pulling from a pretty small

00:49:57   selection for us i think of apps that were even new

00:50:01   or being heavily updated um i feel like that

00:50:04   you know it's unfortunate especially people that care about it

00:50:08   but the time of being a mac like app is is changing and there are just not

00:50:15   many of them anymore no the the we are in an era where um

00:50:19   there are mac apps that are go-to apps for mac users

00:50:23   and they will continue to be made and updated

00:50:26   but there's not a lot of investment into new apps on the platform

00:50:30   there is you know there there are some here and there

00:50:33   but there's not a lot because um you know priority one is ios priority two is

00:50:39   probably android priority three is a web app to get you everywhere else

00:50:43   maybe priority four is windows and there's mac at priority five for a lot of

00:50:47   companies that's the truth of it is mac and windows are not really high

00:50:51   priorities but ios and android are and so you know the mac being

00:50:57   maintenance of the existing rich apps that are out there and then an

00:51:03   influx of new stuff that um that comes over from ios i mean

00:51:06   that's the idea that's the idea plus again i'll point out

00:51:09   like if you love the iphone and the ipad apple should have an in on you as a

00:51:16   customer to get you if you want a laptop or a desktop to buy one of theirs

00:51:20   but the advantage there is that their um their devices on the mac side

00:51:27   are reminiscent of ios so that there's a familiarity there

00:51:30   that kind of doesn't exist right now um and so

00:51:34   that was that was my thought with this list was like you know multitasking

00:51:40   things i've already got full screen and and split view but like could you do a

00:51:43   slide over idea where you you dock an app and you

00:51:46   you can you swipe it out with your trackpad or whatever from the side and

00:51:49   it slides out and you click on something and then you

00:51:51   you slide it away that would be a familiar thing for ipad users or

00:51:55   um like uh making notification center more ios like making control center

00:52:02   uh which is currently what we call icons on the right side of the menu bar

00:52:07   like making that more explicitly control center

00:52:10   and having a different interface for it than is than is currently there now that

00:52:13   will break a lot of long-standing kind of mac

00:52:17   uh you user interface conventions but i kinda i can see it i can see apple

00:52:23   saying actually we're going to change what the

00:52:25   menu bar is and what the status bar is with the icons and we're going to make it

00:52:31   uh more you know refined and more ios like

00:52:35   and then the big one is the touch screen thing which i keep talking about touch

00:52:40   screens and i i don't know for sure that apple

00:52:42   will do them but if again to back up and say i'm an ipad user

00:52:46   and iphone user and now i want to get a laptop or a desktop

00:52:49   and i want to ideally you know apple would be where i would go because i'm

00:52:53   comfortable with apple's platforms but then i see apple's laptop and it doesn't

00:52:56   it's not a touch screen and it doesn't look anything like

00:52:59   anything that i use on on iphone and ipad and in fact the windows

00:53:03   laptops that are out there and the windows desktops that are out there are

00:53:07   more like it in the sense that they have a big you know have a touch interface

00:53:12   that is at least sort of familiar um it's not a completely different

00:53:16   interface to me so i you know again i look at that and i

00:53:20   say adding touch to the mix uh with the marzipan

00:53:24   apps not as the primary interaction method

00:53:26   but as an interaction method i think it's got to be on the table

00:53:31   so i assume this is not in your mind a huge redesign

00:53:35   of mac os or a new operating system this is like

00:53:39   something again i brought it up earlier but something more like when

00:53:44   they brought some ios design to the mac a while ago

00:53:48   i think that's it i think the idea here is to incrementally update mac os

00:53:55   to be more like ios i and when they've said we're not merging them together i

00:54:00   believe them but they are i think you know pushing the

00:54:05   application platform together and perhaps

00:54:08   pushing a lot of the interface conventions together i think what apple

00:54:11   means when it says they're not merging them together is

00:54:14   there is probably not going to be a day it five years from now sometime in the

00:54:18   2020s where apple is going to say i'm sorry you can't run bb edit anymore

00:54:24   right just or or maybe audio hijack right no you can't run a classic

00:54:30   uh mac os app only stuff that comes from ios will run

00:54:35   anymore like i don't think that is where they're going

00:54:39   at least in the medium term maybe in the long i mean long term everything changes

00:54:43   but i i would imagine at that point they

00:54:45   would have provided ways for apps like bb edit to to

00:54:51   adopt new technologies because bb edit was a literally a classic mac os app

00:54:55   and it over the course of a decade plus they you know they very slowly moved

00:55:03   onto the new systems that apple was building and apple provided a way for

00:55:06   them to do it and that was true with a lot of those classic mac apps there were

00:55:09   ways to come across and now bb edits never gone

00:55:13   away it's never been non-functional but it it very slowly evolved to use modern

00:55:18   features so that may happen something like that but

00:55:20   i that's how i read when apple says we're not going to

00:55:24   merge the operating systems is that they're going to make it so that the

00:55:28   operating systems have as much in common as possible

00:55:31   but that they understand that there's a subset of the mac market that wants the

00:55:37   stuff that ios doesn't provide and that their their choices are going to

00:55:40   be to just keep that around or to provide it on ios so it doesn't

00:55:44   matter and you know i think that's a long-term plan long-term goal

00:55:48   but it could also be that they're like yeah you know we're never going to do

00:55:51   the terminal on ios and that's fine because we'll

00:55:54   we'll keep it on the mac and you can use it there but um but i think

00:55:58   likening this to back to the mac is the right way to say it which is

00:56:00   this is a progression of things that will be added to the mac

00:56:04   to make it more in parity with ios and more familiar for people

00:56:12   and like i get it again i think there is a very strong argument maybe the

00:56:16   strongest argument is apple's products should feel like one

00:56:21   another on a certain fundamental level and because of the history of where the

00:56:24   mac came from and where ios came from they don't now apple mentioned last year

00:56:28   at wwdc that one of the things that they've been working on

00:56:32   and continue to work on is this effort that is almost invisible to users

00:56:37   which is to get the subsystems of the mac and ios

00:56:41   back in parity because essentially they forked off of

00:56:45   mac os 10 in 2007 when they built the iphone and they've

00:56:50   been drifting apart and they're trying to push those back

00:56:53   together and i think marzipan is a reason why

00:56:56   but i think also that's the idea like it's better if everything is just more

00:57:00   consistent if the way that all apple's products work is it has

00:57:06   has things in common it also saves them a lot of effort to not be maintaining

00:57:10   you know these completely separate code bases if they can

00:57:14   so it's not it's not a complete merger but it is that

00:57:18   gradual seeping in of more and more ios conventions and you know i think they

00:57:25   could do it badly and they could do it well i don't think it's a fundamentally

00:57:28   bad idea and i think there's some benefit in

00:57:31   saying just like an ipad as an ipad user like having synced up the iphone and

00:57:35   ipad behavior in the last updates i don't love the

00:57:40   control centers in the top right corner everywhere because i don't love that

00:57:42   interaction but i like that it's in the same place on

00:57:46   both my ipad my iphone and it wasn't before

00:57:49   when you mentioned bb edit something popped into my head which was like

00:57:54   huh i don't remember bb edit appearing in the app store and it

00:58:00   was on stage at wwdc right like that was one of the apps

00:58:03   transmit appeared a little while ago office

00:58:06   as well and as of an hour ago there was a software update to bb edit

00:58:12   which sandboxes the app so it's moving to the app store so like

00:58:17   that this is the foot this is the step they needed to go through right it was

00:58:20   to it's progression right sandboxed app but

00:58:22   it was just like oh yeah okay i forgot about that and so yeah it looks like

00:58:26   it's still coming i guess because they've gone through that

00:58:29   my understanding with some of those announcements is that they announced

00:58:31   that they're going to do it but that some of the behind the scenes and then

00:58:34   not just bb edit but also like the panic apps is

00:58:36   um that it requires changes in mac os to allow them to ask for certain

00:58:42   powers that they weren't and this is the this is the effect of

00:58:45   policy change on software which is they had to apple had to say okay we're

00:58:50   gonna allow apps to ask for more permission but then

00:58:53   they have to build in to the operating system the permissions

00:58:57   and the requesting of them it's not just a policy decision it's like a policy

00:59:01   decision that then is an implementation issue in

00:59:04   the os so my understanding about you know panic and bb edit and other apps

00:59:08   like that that were called out in june uh is that some of those features

00:59:13   were in the shipping version of um of uh of mac os 10.14

00:59:20   but some of them were not some of them were in a

00:59:23   a later release and i i was always unclear about whether that meant 10 15

00:59:28   or whether that meant 10 14 2 or 10 14 3 but uh i definitely got the word even

00:59:35   last june that like not all of those apps weren't all going

00:59:38   to be able to go on the app store immediately because it wasn't just an

00:59:40   issue of oh well they'll ship mohavi and then we'll be ready to go it was an

00:59:44   issue of they got to ship these particular things

00:59:47   that we need and then we can be in the app store again so it was kind of a

00:59:50   statement of a principle but that's also a great a

00:59:53   great sign right that and that's a good example of

00:59:55   of what i was saying before about bb edit too which is like the world

00:59:59   may not change overnight it may be a slow progression but i do believe that

01:00:02   apple is kind of committed to allowing these apps that that people

01:00:07   need to continue to exist they may just you

01:00:10   know there may just be continually every year a little

01:00:13   bit of drift that has to happen and that i think that happens in software anyway

01:00:16   right like there's even if it's not a a global thing where

01:00:20   you know that your company is going from point a to point b

01:00:22   your platform vendor you know platform vendors do

01:00:26   still make changes every year that software developers have to

01:00:29   deal with so it's it's a little bit different but not

01:00:33   necessarily enormously different all right we should do some hashtag

01:00:37   ask upgrade questions to finish off today's episode but the

01:00:40   first let me thank our friends over at squarespace with squarespace

01:00:43   you can easily create a website for your next idea you can make your next move

01:00:48   with squarespace no matter what type of website you want

01:00:50   to make squarespace has the tools that you're going to need they have the

01:00:53   functions they have the features and it's all

01:00:55   in one there's nothing to install or patch or upgrade squarespace

01:00:59   is a all in all in one solution it is a thing you can go to squarespace you can

01:01:04   set up a website you can get a domain name you can

01:01:06   customize award-winning templates you can add a store if you want to

01:01:09   you can have everything backed up the 24/7 customer support

01:01:12   it is super easy to get a website started and it's super fun to customize

01:01:16   i've built many squarespace websites over the years i have many more in my

01:01:20   future that i will build for other projects that i want to work on

01:01:23   and i love squarespace with squarespace i've never had to learn

01:01:27   how to make a website from scratch because they have all of the tools that

01:01:30   i need everything is in a way that i

01:01:32   understand and they're always adding new stuff

01:01:35   like when i started using squarespace it didn't have online store functionality

01:01:38   didn't have domain name registration these are things that they've added over

01:01:41   time as they understand what their customers want

01:01:44   i really love squarespace and i recommend it to anybody that needs it we

01:01:47   built our wedding website on squarespace last

01:01:50   year and it's super easy to do and they had

01:01:52   all of the page structure in a way that you want like they have actual wedding

01:01:55   templates and you can choose a wedding template

01:01:58   and enable and disable the pages that you want and customize them

01:02:00   super easy to do you can find out just how fun and simple it is to build your

01:02:04   own website with squarespace by signing up

01:02:06   for their free trial at squarespace.com upgrade there's no credit card required

01:02:11   it's a full trial you can go in and you can customize your heart's content and

01:02:15   build your website out the way that you want and then when you're ready to

01:02:17   launch it to the world their plans start at just 12 dollars a

01:02:20   month but you can get 10 percent off your first purchase of a website or

01:02:24   domain with the offer code upgrade at checkout

01:02:27   once again that is squarespace.com upgrade and the code upgrade to get 10

01:02:31   percent off your first purchase and to support this show our thanks to

01:02:35   squarespace for sponsoring this week's episode of upgrade

01:02:38   squarespace make your next move make your next website

01:02:42   so our first hashtag ask upgrade question

01:02:45   comes from norista who would like to know jason

01:02:49   can they get a two-minute user review of the bedit sleep monitor

01:02:53   sure um i bought one i'm gonna write it up at some point

01:02:56   this is apple owns this company this is an example of apple buying a company and

01:03:00   yet keeping its uh product kind of on the outside

01:03:03   it's not apple branded or anything they just did a new version

01:03:06   you can buy it in the apple store right like you can it's not like one of those

01:03:10   ones where they're like ah we'll just run it down until it's done

01:03:12   like no this is like just a brand that they own it's interesting yeah it's

01:03:17   interesting so i um i bought it because i was kind of

01:03:20   curious and i like the idea of sort of logging

01:03:23   when am i getting a good night's sleep and not and am i getting

01:03:26   am i waking up in the middle of the night and all these things it's a little

01:03:29   pad that you put on your mattress basically and it's got

01:03:33   a usb cord that comes out and you plug that in

01:03:37   and on the on the plug end is basically like a bluetooth thing and then you have

01:03:41   to connect it to a device um what they want you to do is connect it

01:03:44   to your iphone and then it syncs the health data with all of your other

01:03:47   health data and from your apple watch and all of that

01:03:49   and monitors your your uh your sleep and it has to be by your bed

01:03:54   in in range of the the bedit dongle because you're doing

01:03:57   bluetooth le to connect to the sensor and get the data and collect it and it

01:04:03   also actually uses the phone microphone uh to do snoring

01:04:07   monitor so it listens and it logs when there's

01:04:10   snores um so you can see how much snoring you

01:04:13   did in the night as well which i think is pretty clever um i i

01:04:18   i like it i don't love it one of my big problems with it is

01:04:21   speaking of ipad apps and iphone apps it does not work it does not have an ipad

01:04:27   app it really wants you to use your iphone

01:04:29   and you know what that means that means it is making a fundamental assumption

01:04:32   that you sleep with your iphone next to your bed

01:04:35   i i don't i don't and so i paired it with my ipad

01:04:40   but that means that my ipad is not connected to all of my

01:04:43   fancy home data and the health data right to health can it

01:04:47   exactly and yeah that's what i meant and uh and that's not great

01:04:51   and uh and i'm have to use it in the blown up

01:04:54   ipad compatibility mode which is all which is dumb because they don't have a

01:04:57   proper ipad do you have to leave the app open all night well so it it is using a

01:05:03   background task to do the uh snore monitoring and

01:05:08   talk to the l bluetooth le thing so you have to have

01:05:12   run it and not have it be killed which i haven't had a problem with

01:05:16   if you kill the bedded app and go to sleep

01:05:21   it won't log you though it has to it has to have been launched

01:05:24   it's like probably the last thing you do before you go to bed is is open it and

01:05:28   then you like can go back to your home screen and

01:05:30   close it and then it will just run in the back which is not great

01:05:32   it should it should just work and it doesn't and that part that part bugs me

01:05:35   it's a little like it should be more like the apple watch

01:05:38   where it just they they get to talk to each other and i think maybe that is an

01:05:41   effect of it being owned by apple but not apple proper

01:05:44   that they're not allowed to do that um but the the fact that i have to use my

01:05:49   ipad and that my ipad is not part of the great health

01:05:52   database i'd like to be able to sync it across

01:05:55   all my devices and stuff and that's not i think i think you can do so that's

01:05:59   silly if you put the better app on your iphone

01:06:03   and like have an account can then the phone not write the data to health or is

01:06:06   it like has to be where it's performed i don't think yeah i don't think it it

01:06:10   travels that's annoying i haven't tried that but i don't think

01:06:13   that travels and i i think this is just a fundamental problem where like i mean

01:06:16   maybe they discovered most people sleep with their phone next to their bed but i

01:06:19   don't i i have my phone on a charger in the

01:06:21   kitchen because i have an ipad and so i don't need my phone

01:06:25   i have my ipad instead so that's that's weird but anyway that's there's the

01:06:28   short review of the bed-at-sleep monitor it is

01:06:30   i i think it works pretty well and i think it's very clever and i i was just

01:06:34   curious about how it would work in terms of monitoring

01:06:36   my my sleep and when i go to bed and when i wake up and am i getting a good

01:06:40   night's sleep and am i waking up in the middle of the night

01:06:42   and you know all of that seems to work pretty well after a day or two i got

01:06:45   used to the feeling that the pad was there i and now

01:06:49   i just ignore it i don't even notice that it's there

01:06:54   so dominic asks with the rumored wireless charging coming to the airpods

01:06:58   combined with the uh rumor that we spoke about like the

01:07:02   iphone being able to charge like samsung's doing this so the s10 you

01:07:06   can take the galaxy buds and put them on the back of the phone

01:07:09   and they charge up it's like bilateral charging is the phrase so dominic wants

01:07:13   to know do we think that the next airpods could be the first

01:07:16   portless product from apple

01:07:20   i think not this version no but maybe version three i feel like that

01:07:28   the airpods are probably the product i can imagine

01:07:32   going all wireless first i mean let's not include the apple watch because

01:07:36   technically the apple watch doesn't have any ports in it and the

01:07:40   apple pencil yeah i mean i think it's like those are

01:07:45   the apple pencil yes that 100 works but i get dominic's question of like

01:07:50   a product that has a port having it removed i think that's probably a better

01:07:54   way to think about it so you know and again it's like let's the

01:07:58   apple pencil i think we're gonna we're just gonna

01:08:00   pull out from this conversation because like yes it had a lightning port but you

01:08:04   plug it in to something it was it's always been a

01:08:07   little bit of an outlier even though let's just say the next

01:08:10   the next yeah all right there you go thank you so uh the next one but can you

01:08:15   imagine like what can you imagine this happening with the airpods i think it's

01:08:19   it feels inevitable to me but not with the next one

01:08:22   yeah i i it's going to be a while because you're going to need to sell it

01:08:25   you you're going to want to sell it to people who don't have a you know don't

01:08:29   have to buy a wireless charger and don't have a phone like

01:08:32   even if the next generation of iphones can do wireless charging of devices like

01:08:36   the samsung s10 can like that's not your own that's not your whole

01:08:41   market that is slow charging coming from the phones so you wouldn't want to

01:08:47   charge like you'd have to like leave it overnight on the back of the phone it

01:08:50   doesn't make sense oh you leave it on a qi charger like

01:08:52   it's it's uh it's less than ideal but i think that it makes sense for this

01:08:56   product to go that way in the future um but i

01:08:59   don't think we're there yet i think i think the money of people who

01:09:04   don't have wireless chargers is more important to apple

01:09:08   than making a super cool thing without a port that requires

01:09:11   another accessory in order to charge it and they're not going to put a charger

01:09:15   in the box with it so that's yeah i think it's going to be

01:09:18   a while james asks do you think apple will continue to update the imac pro

01:09:23   after the new mac pro is released i do i think the imac pro is going to

01:09:29   stick around i think it won't get an update

01:09:32   you know super often but i think that there's

01:09:35   i mean you could argue that the imac pro is more

01:09:40   uh is what apple wanted to make i was just gonna say this

01:09:44   it is worth remembering the imac pro is the computer that apple will not force

01:09:47   to make that was the one they decided to make

01:09:50   and they were basically forced to make the mac right i mean the argument is

01:09:53   that maybe they have changed direction now and therefore

01:09:55   since they're making a mac pro they don't need an imac pro but

01:09:58   um i think apple will watch the sales figures because i think the argument is

01:10:03   strong that you don't need a mac pro and you could just use an imac pro but if

01:10:09   everybody who's in that market buys a mac pro with an external monitor and the

01:10:13   imac pro sales falter then maybe they could maybe they

01:10:17   would stop doing it i would also argue that um i feel like

01:10:20   the imac pro is also pointing a direction for the future of the imac

01:10:24   in terms of removing all spinning storage space and redesigning the

01:10:28   the fans and all of that so um i i think that there's some

01:10:32   you know it's not impossible that the ipad pro will disappear but or i mean

01:10:35   the uh sorry the uh imac pro will disappear but i think it's

01:10:39   it's less likely and um that it's more likely that apple really

01:10:44   does believe that the imac is the ideal desktop and that they're

01:10:48   uh they'll continue to push it but but you know who knows

01:10:51   who knows but um i think i think in the end the sales will tell

01:10:54   um we don't know whether apple's opinion about this has changed but i do

01:10:58   i do want to point out that yes apple initially

01:11:02   thought the imac pro could just replace the mac pro and they may still feel

01:11:06   that it's the real you know product that's going to sell well

01:11:09   um but imac pro sales will tell

01:11:14   tom asks how do you record and publish the show so quickly do you just get it

01:11:18   in one take with no editing i don't understand the no take question

01:11:22   as such but i do understand why people ask this

01:11:27   because we do publish upgrade pretty quickly upgrades usually published

01:11:31   kind of within 90 minutes of us stopping recording

01:11:35   right and the way that we do that is i edit the show immediately

01:11:39   and the way that i kind of take stock of what needs to be edited is during our

01:11:45   conversation i'm writing down time codes of all of

01:11:48   the things that i need to go back and fix and this includes

01:11:51   when we mess stuff up or when we cross talk over each other quite excessively

01:11:55   um i go back and then go and fix all of that stuff and publish it

01:11:59   um i like upgrade to go out as quickly as possible

01:12:03   i don't know why i feel that way but i always have um

01:12:06   i kind of i pride ourselves on the ability to do it well

01:12:10   it's very timely yeah it is very timely and that that's part of it is that we

01:12:14   can get the we can catch the monday evening commute

01:12:17   in the us um and we're talking about stuff that's going on right now so um

01:12:23   i think there's an advantage in that like anytime like atp

01:12:28   um there tends to be what a day and a little bit gap between episode

01:12:33   recording and release they record on a wednesday night it usually goes out

01:12:36   friday morning i think yeah sounds about right um and you know

01:12:40   that sometimes that bites them sometimes that

01:12:43   bites them because news happens after they record

01:12:46   and before they release and i really like the idea if

01:12:50   at all possible of um of getting the show out

01:12:55   immediately because then it's out and it's of the moment

01:12:58   and it's about what's happening right now and if something happens tomorrow

01:13:01   well of course we didn't cover it because we already released our episode

01:13:05   and then we just have to deal with it um incomparable i record way in advance

01:13:09   and although i don't do a uh a super heavy edit on that most of the

01:13:13   time i do spend you know several hours with it usually

01:13:16   because they're way more people two people

01:13:18   podcasts are also way easier to edit and then sometimes you have shows that are

01:13:21   much more topical and are a heavier edit is more appropriate

01:13:25   and cortex is an example of that where you and gray you know are not super

01:13:28   timely and you guys um sweat that a lot more

01:13:32   plus your session i believe is a lot less

01:13:36   you know free flowing whereas ours is pretty close to the final

01:13:40   yeah it's like atp sounds better i think than our show some of the like a lot of

01:13:46   time because marco is really going in and like fine tuning it

01:13:50   sure they've also got three people so they got more cleanup to do yep

01:13:53   but i do think that this show does sound really good and we take

01:13:56   a lot of efforts in making that work the best that we can but

01:14:00   it's different so like it takes me probably about an hour

01:14:03   an hour an hour a bit depending on the episode to

01:14:07   to edit this and publish it if i edited this show the same way that i edit

01:14:11   cortex which is i think closer to what marco does

01:14:15   we'd be looking at maybe four hours and that's not really

01:14:19   the way that i want to do it because that means i couldn't get it out the

01:14:21   same day because we we start recording at my 5 p.m so and it

01:14:25   changes the um it changes the dynamic of the the show

01:14:28   it becomes a show where you're spending four hours a week on editing instead of

01:14:32   one or one and a half and you know the like i

01:14:34   said the incomparable i put in time like that because i've got a large panel and

01:14:37   because they're often a lot of kind of content decisions that

01:14:40   i've got to make um it varies from show to show i've also got weekly podcasts

01:14:44   that i do where there's almost no editing

01:14:46   and uh you know that it's the it's the choices you make

01:14:49   that because it is it is a cost to go through and part of the

01:14:53   the calculation is how much can i improve this

01:14:57   versus how much time am i spending on it because you could

01:15:01   spend four hours every monday evening not having your dinner and editing

01:15:05   upgrade how much better would it be and the answer is not a lot better

01:15:08   because it's there are only the two of us

01:15:11   and we mostly do it pretty much straight through and there are just

01:15:14   a few little nips and tucks here and there and so you could spend more time

01:15:17   but why yeah most of the differences would get

01:15:20   out of that not many people would notice yes which is the beauty of of fixing

01:15:26   like when i do a podcast with eight people on it and i edit it so it's like

01:15:28   wow nobody ever interrupted everybody and

01:15:31   everyone let everyone finish and it's like yeah that didn't happen

01:15:34   right like i made it seem like that but it wasn't like that but with this

01:15:39   it's not um i i think nobody would notice at all

01:15:42   because it would be little examples of crosstalk or little nips and tucks here

01:15:46   it would be it i think it would not be worth your

01:15:48   time quite frankly now rick allen in the chat

01:15:52   is asking another question uh rick wants to know if i listen to

01:15:55   the final version i don't anymore because

01:15:59   all right so like i feel like i'm dooming myself on this one

01:16:04   i trust my editing now um because i cannot remember the last time

01:16:11   i made a mistake in a show that i had to go back and fix it

01:16:15   because i edit so much that i know my process

01:16:19   and i know how to do it and i've built in enough checks and balances

01:16:24   you know into the way that i edit and like different checks that i'll do to

01:16:27   the file before it goes out um that most people would think that i

01:16:32   i've lost my mind sometimes with some of the checks that i do because i but these

01:16:35   are all checks based upon mistakes i've made in the past sure and

01:16:40   it becomes a uh it becomes a like a safety net like i will check i

01:16:44   don't listen to the shows back that i edit because i again i

01:16:48   don't have that kind of time and i'm fairly confident in my workflow

01:16:53   but do i open the final export and look at the

01:16:56   waveform yes i do because what if there's a big gap or

01:17:00   something weird that exported wrong i can see it and then i can go in and fix

01:17:05   it and that does happen from time to time

01:17:06   um forecast which i use and you use to encode mp3

01:17:10   marco actually built in a uh a silent sensor and it will actually

01:17:16   say warning there's a three second long silence

01:17:19   at 24 minutes in the file and that's a nice little safety net although i would

01:17:23   see that in the in the waveform so there's some of that but

01:17:25   um yeah in a 90-minute podcast i don't spend 90 minutes listening back to it

01:17:29   when you edit it you can listen to some of it enough to spot check it but

01:17:32   it's more of a spot check than it is anything else

01:17:35   yeah so that's that's podcast editing for you folks

01:17:39   uh maybe i tell one last little thing on this because i like talking about it and

01:17:43   then maybe we'll wrap up on this so because of the way that me and jason

01:17:48   edit and because of the way that we both know

01:17:51   i'll edit the show we have this funny little thing that

01:17:53   happens that you'll only notice if you listen to the show live

01:17:57   which i refer to as like the editor's prerogative

01:18:02   uh or like kind of like the the the kind of the fortune of people that edit shows

01:18:07   so both me and jason know that if because we remove crosstalk we'll pick

01:18:13   the best thing that's said so if me and jason are talking over each

01:18:18   other and sometimes you will hear us say i

01:18:21   can make entire points for like maybe five or ten seconds sometimes if

01:18:26   the two of us just talking yeah and we both know that i will go back

01:18:30   and pick the best one of those but this is something that typically

01:18:35   people that edit podcasts do way worse to each other because we are both

01:18:40   safe in the knowledge that i will fix it later on

01:18:43   and i think it's just this funny thing that we do but this is totally how

01:18:49   you get used to the way that a show is edited so

01:18:53   with cortex i very frequently will take another shot at saying something if i

01:18:58   kind of messed it up in a way that doesn't really happen when

01:19:02   i record this show because my brain is like in a different

01:19:05   mode because there's way more of like what i'm saying will be

01:19:10   committed to the audio unless something terrible happens where if i know i have

01:19:13   the safety net of like mike in the future will listen to this

01:19:16   and he'll fix it then i will allow myself to kind of flub

01:19:20   and then be like okay let me redo that and say it again but the funny thing

01:19:23   that happens with this show is me and jason just talk over each other

01:19:28   and then move on knowing that i'll fix it later on which is just kind of fun

01:19:31   you'll pull it apart or you'll find out that one of us

01:19:34   didn't need to make that noise because it was right like you may and that's

01:19:37   editor's prerogative and i do that too i do a lot on the incomparable of like

01:19:40   uncovering jokes and sometimes two people make the same joke and i'm like

01:19:44   that one's better and i'll just make a decision it's like sorry other person

01:19:47   you also made that joke and nobody's going to hear it now

01:19:50   but that's just how it has to be and that's that's also a part of it i did

01:19:53   make a new year's resolution of a sort this year which is if

01:19:58   because i default to what you described about um

01:20:02   our show which is to just let it go it's live for the most part and you fix

01:20:05   egregious things later i did make a little bit of a new year's

01:20:08   resolution to do a little bit more of the can we stop

01:20:13   because that was wrong just because what i was finding is that i

01:20:17   know something was wrong i let it go because i don't want to create an edit

01:20:20   point and make more work for you and then we spend a week having people

01:20:24   complain that we got something wrong so i have tried to do a little bit more of

01:20:27   that because but i still think that there's

01:20:29   value in it being the default because if you don't think of it that way

01:20:32   what happens with cortex is exactly what happens which is suddenly

01:20:35   every five minutes you're stopping to say can i rephrase that let me do that

01:20:38   again and then you've got a whole list of edits

01:20:41   and then you have to be sure that you edit it diligently otherwise you're hey

01:20:45   way wait let me every down on atp someone will

01:20:48   rephrase something and it'll get through the edit and they'll be like oh

01:20:51   you missed that one right and it's like i'd rather not do that but sometimes you

01:20:54   have to sometimes you do all right should we

01:20:57   should we redo that part jason do you want to just read that whole

01:21:01   question it's not gonna get any better so let's just go with that one all right

01:21:05   thanks everybody for submitting their questions this week you can ask

01:21:08   questions of us with the hashtag ask upgrade and then we'll go into a

01:21:12   document for us to pull from later on and if you want to open the show

01:21:16   you can use a hashtag snell talk for that one to ask some some random

01:21:21   question that may find its way into a future episode

01:21:24   and if you want to find jason online you can go to six colors dot com and the

01:21:27   incomparable dot com jason is at j snell on twitter you can

01:21:31   find me on at imike i m y k e and you can find this show

01:21:36   many other shows above me and jason host over at relay.fm

01:21:40   you can maybe find something new there to pick up for your commute for your

01:21:44   dishwashing time your lawnmower time whatever it is that you do

01:21:48   when you listen to podcasts there's something else there for you i'm sure

01:21:51   thanks again to green chef lunar display and squarespace

01:21:55   for their support of this show and we'll be back next time until then

01:21:59   say goodbye jason snow you're gonna edit this part out right yeah 100

01:22:07   [ Music ]