231: The Upgrade Cycle Is Extending


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:08   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 231, and today's show is brought to you by TextExpander, Fresh Books, and Eero.

00:00:17   My name is Myke Hurley, and I am joined by Jason Snell. Hi, Jason Snell.

00:00:21   Hi, Myke Hurley.

00:00:23   I have a Snell Talk question for you, Jason Snell, that was delivered to me via audio form

00:00:29   after we recorded Connected last week. Federico Viticci wants to know, "Jason Snell, do you

00:00:34   rename the internal drives on your Mac?"

00:00:38   This is a fascinating philosophical question. I used to, back in the olden days, in the

00:00:46   olden days, when your Mac hard drive was on your desktop like everything else, by default.

00:00:51   You used to say Macintosh HD, right? Like right there on the desktop.

00:00:54   I used to rename it and often get info on it and paste in like an icon that I enjoyed,

00:01:02   like a custom icon, right? That was like how you personalized your Mac, right?

00:01:06   Yeah, I used to do that. This is that thing, like again, like I know I'm a very iOS person,

00:01:10   I've been using Macs for like 15 years at this point, right? Like I'm not, you know,

00:01:15   like I used to do that, right? I used to use a candy bar, right?

00:01:19   Sure, customize all that stuff.

00:01:21   You could customize all the icons and stuff.

00:01:24   So at some point, probably like a decade ago now, a few things. One, I don't actually have

00:01:30   my local hard drive icon on my desktop anymore. I don't do that. OS X, I think by default,

00:01:35   doesn't show it and you can choose to show it or not. I don't show it. I don't see it.

00:01:40   And then also in, when I was at Macworld especially, but it's true even now, but back at Macworld,

00:01:46   I would get, I'd have different computers at different times because I'm reviewing stuff,

00:01:50   so I would like migrate everything to, I cannot tell you how many laptops I used because I

00:01:54   would literally like, here's a new laptop to review, migrate all my stuff to that laptop,

00:02:00   use that for a while, write my review, then migrate back or maybe I keep that and then

00:02:05   there would be a new one and then I'd migrate to that. I did a lot of moving around of data

00:02:09   and I think partly it was that. Also, I started writing like little scripts and stuff where

00:02:15   you had to, we didn't have to. I was bad, because I'm bad at AppleScript, I would often

00:02:21   hard code my scripts to my file path and you don't have to do that. You can actually say

00:02:25   like the home folder. You can get your path and get what the volume is. But the combination

00:02:33   of those two things at some point I just decided, or those three things, the icon on the desktop

00:02:37   too, I just decided it wasn't worth dealing with it, that I would give my computer in

00:02:42   the sharing control panel, I would give my computer a name, but that the internal hard

00:02:46   drive I decided I just didn't want to deal with it, it was the internal hard drive and

00:02:52   as such, for the last decade my internal hard drive has just been Macintosh HD.

00:02:58   I think that makes perfect sense. So I'm over it. I choose to put my personalization schemes

00:03:05   in other places. I have a custom desktop, I name my computer so it isn't just Jason's

00:03:10   iMac, parenthesis, nine, close parenthesis. It's not any of that, but the hard drive is

00:03:18   just Macintosh HD.

00:03:20   Isn't it interesting that they still call it HD?

00:03:26   Isn't it interesting they still call it Macintosh?

00:03:28   Well that's true actually. Yeah, this is going to be one of those things they just, it's

00:03:33   like too much work to change, right?

00:03:36   I think for the same reason that I said, I think it's probably a similar reason which

00:03:40   is like, why would they go into the effort to change it? Maybe changing it changes a

00:03:47   lot of things. What would they call it? Would they have it be different for every model?

00:03:54   Would it just be like Mac OS drive? I think they just decided it's a classic, it's been

00:04:00   there forever, and there's no reason to change it because by default nobody really cares.

00:04:06   And if you want to change it you can. So yeah, maybe it also gives me a little bit of nostalgia

00:04:13   when I do see Macintosh HD that's like, oh yeah right, like every default hard drive

00:04:18   ever on every Mac for ages now.

00:04:22   Yeah I can only assume like some stuff is like hard coded somewhere, right?

00:04:26   It may be, it may be.

00:04:27   It would just break so much stuff if they changed it.

00:04:30   Some summer intern was like, let's not call it Macintosh HD anymore, and then he worked

00:04:35   on that the whole summer and at the end they're like, yeah this breaks everything, sorry Billy,

00:04:39   goodbye.

00:04:40   I would like to thank Federico for his question. If you record a podcast with me and would

00:04:45   like a question asked to Jason, just tell me after our recording on Skype.

00:04:48   I will, I will.

00:04:50   It's probably better for you to send a tweet with the hashtag SnellTalk because that's

00:04:54   how the majority, the vast majority of these questions are provided for us to open the

00:04:58   show. So I wanted to do some follow out because a lot of stuff happened last week but the

00:05:03   news cycle has moved on and nothing really changed so it's not really worth massively

00:05:08   getting into as a full topic, i.e. having to describe the whole thing and then do all

00:05:13   of the follow up for it.

00:05:14   So listen to episode 228 of Connected and episode 89 of Download if you would like to

00:05:21   hear mine and Jason's thoughts about Apple's FaceTime bug and the Facebook Enterprise Certificate

00:05:28   thing. The Facebook thing, basically what happened has happened, right? Like it's resolved

00:05:35   now and the FaceTime bug has yet to be fixed but Apple apologized. That's effectively what's

00:05:39   changed since we spoke about these things.

00:05:42   And they turned off Group FaceTime entirely in the meantime until they fix it, which they're

00:05:46   going to do they say this week, yeah, yeah exactly.

00:05:49   So you know, there's episodes are there and they include most of, if not all of our thoughts

00:05:54   on those subjects but we just didn't think it was worth talking about them specifically

00:05:58   today but we wanted to record that they'd occurred.

00:06:02   That's right, let the record show that these things had occurred. Yeah, my only thing I

00:06:08   wanted to mention about this at all, which is kind of a meta thing, when the Facebook

00:06:13   thing happened where that story came out saying Facebook was distributing, using their Enterprise

00:06:18   Certificate, distributing apps to people outside of Facebook, non-Facebook employees and that

00:06:23   it was this Onavo thing that already got banned from the App Store.

00:06:27   I saw a lot of people on Twitter and in Slack in various places say that Apple wouldn't

00:06:34   do anything about it. And I think that what's interesting about that is that it shows how

00:06:38   I think maybe beaten down a little bit but certainly cynical people are about how Apple

00:06:42   treats big companies like Facebook versus small developers. We all know the stories

00:06:47   about how Apple is incredibly by the book sometimes when it comes to little developers.

00:06:51   They will point at the letter of their rules even though it's not in spirit and demand

00:06:56   changes that are ridiculous. I had a friend who was trying to release an app update and

00:07:01   wanted to mention that it fit the new iPhone sizes and the new iPhones had been announced

00:07:07   but not released yet and his update was rejected because you weren't supposed to mention unreleased

00:07:13   products even though they had been announced. It was like, we hear stories like this all

00:07:18   the time, it's better since Phil Schiller took over control of the App Store but you

00:07:20   still hear them. And I think it's really interesting how it has gotten ingrained in a lot of people's

00:07:25   minds that Apple is going to behave like a jerk when it comes to small developers and

00:07:30   it's going to give big developers with power a pass. And I get that and yet when that was

00:07:37   going on I kept saying, "No, I think they're going to come down on Facebook here." Because

00:07:43   everybody hates Facebook right now. Facebook's in the news for doing bad stuff and it's very

00:07:50   on brand for Apple to say, "No, no, we care about this. You broke the rules and Facebook

00:07:54   is trying to steal people's data and we don't like it and we're going to put you down."

00:07:59   And that is what they did. So, not to say that #Jason was right but I'm reading the

00:08:06   tea leaves there, it's like when? If there was never, when would there be a better time

00:08:12   to come down hard publicly on Facebook for some bad behavior it did? Now seems like the

00:08:17   perfect time and indeed it was and they did. And they also rebuked Google a little bit too.

00:08:23   And they didn't delete their accounts forever and remove Facebook from the App Store or

00:08:27   anything like that but they did do something and I'm not surprised that they did because

00:08:32   again I think it makes Apple look good that they are seen publicly chastising Facebook

00:08:37   for what is perceived as a breach. More information hungry brokering happening by Facebook which

00:08:44   fits that narrative pretty well. Yeah, I think I kind of had two points on what you said

00:08:49   there. One is like, well I understand why people would have felt that way and Apple

00:08:55   only really probably did something here because they had a convenient punishment for them,

00:09:00   right? Like if it wasn't a situation, if the situation was all they could do was remove

00:09:05   Facebook from the App Store there probably would have been no punishment because that

00:09:10   hurts Apple as well as hurting Facebook. I think it would have been very unlikely in

00:09:14   that situation that we would have seen them do anything. And the other is like how much

00:09:20   of a punishment was it really though? It was like two days and then they got their certificate

00:09:23   back? It was a slap on the wrist. It was a don't do this. It was at least a public slap

00:09:27   on the wrist which was a cool thing to do. And also it was sending the message that we're

00:09:30   not going to allow this to continue, right? Like you need to, because it wasn't just like

00:09:35   they slapped them on the wrist and then they turned everything back in two days. They slapped

00:09:38   them on the wrist and said that thing has to go away and it went away. And Google meanwhile

00:09:42   was like, "We have one of those two but it's done. Don't hurt us. Don't hurt us." And they're

00:09:47   like, "Well, we're going to slap you on the wrist too."

00:09:49   I also expect that like in the intervening time with what we didn't see was all of the

00:09:54   very, very high level meetings that occur between Facebook and Apple. I mean I doubt

00:09:59   it was very much a, "Oh, we're going to get rid of this and in two days we're going to

00:10:03   give it back." I assumed that there were conversations that happened.

00:10:06   Yeah. No, I'm sure that they basically said, "You're in violation. It's revoked." And then

00:10:10   at that point somebody at Facebook has to call Apple basically. And they're like, "We're

00:10:14   so sorry. We apologize. It won't happen again. This was a rogue group. We had no knowledge

00:10:19   of it. I'm shocked that there was gambling in this establishment." All of that. And then

00:10:23   that's a reference. And then Phil Schiller gets on the phone probably and is like, "Okay,

00:10:28   here's what's going to happen. We'll give this back to you but we're aware of everything

00:10:33   you register and whatever the conditions are. We'll be watching you. You can't ever do this

00:10:38   again. There are reasons we do this." I'm sure there was some conversation back there.

00:10:43   But it struck me, Facebook has power. And you're right, Apple's not going to shoot itself

00:10:48   in the foot by turning off the Facebook app for everybody who has an iOS device. That

00:10:53   said, even like I feel like Apple had the upper hand here because what's Facebook going

00:10:59   to do? Walk away from iOS? No, they're not going to do that either. They're not going

00:11:04   to do that. Besides which, there's the website. So you can use—I don't have Facebook on

00:11:09   my phone. When I go to a Facebook link, it just loads in my web browser and it's fine.

00:11:14   So there are—I felt like, yeah, Apple ultimately doesn't want to be the phone platform that

00:11:19   doesn't have Facebook. But one, there's the whole web thing. And then two, Facebook also

00:11:25   doesn't want to give all those great high-value Facebook users away. So yeah.

00:11:32   Yeah. What a huge mess. I'm sure Facebook has lost some of the leniency that they may

00:11:39   have had.

00:11:40   Well, I think if we can hope for anything from this entire thing, it's that, right?

00:11:44   Which is Facebook—I think that's what Apple was really trying to do with Facebook and

00:11:49   Google was send a message like, "You need to police your own people." Because if this—I

00:11:54   mean, if it came from the top, it came from the top. But if you've got a group that's

00:11:57   doing this research and they just decided, "We don't care. We'll do whatever," it has

00:12:03   impact on the rest of Facebook, right? Even if the executives were okay with it, every

00:12:08   Facebook employee who couldn't order their meal or get picked up from the bus or whatever

00:12:13   is mad at those people now because they got inconvenienced.

00:12:16   They became acutely aware of the things going on inside of their company because it impacted

00:12:21   them.

00:12:22   Yeah.

00:12:23   So it was a good message, I'm sure. But I doubt literally anything will change for Facebook's

00:12:29   just general ways of doing business. Anyway, let's move on to Upstream. It was the Super

00:12:36   Bowl yesterday.

00:12:37   Super Bowl!

00:12:38   Super Bowl. And of course—

00:12:40   It was the most boring of all Super Bowls.

00:12:43   That was what I saw.

00:12:44   Sorry. As somebody watches football, it was a lousy, lousy, lousy game.

00:12:50   Yeah, I tend to watch the Super Bowl but just didn't this year for no specific reason and

00:12:54   woke up this morning and was very pleased.

00:12:57   You didn't miss anything. Yeah, it was not a good game. And I'm not talking about the

00:13:04   outcome. Both local Bay Area quarterbacks, actually, which is kind of funny. And the

00:13:10   Rams quarterback, Jared Goff, went to Cal. I saw him play all the three years that he

00:13:14   was at Cal and he is from my place. He's from Marin County where I live. He grew up here,

00:13:19   went to Marin Catholic.

00:13:20   So were you rooting for the Rams then?

00:13:24   And their running back, CJ Anderson, also a Cal guy. So yes, although there are two

00:13:27   Cal guys on the page, it's two. We Cal fans have to take victory where we can find it

00:13:31   and it's not in Berkeley. Anyway, but it was a lousy game. At least there were commercials.

00:13:36   I actually thought most of the commercials were kind of lousy too, although I have a

00:13:39   couple of favorites.

00:13:40   Okay. I don't know what they are. I think I've probably seen one of them.

00:13:44   So, Bud Light has this ad campaign, which I hate, which is like a king and a bunch of

00:13:51   soldiers. And they added this character that's like a knight who speaks in this weird process,

00:13:56   deep voice, who is, he's literally like Duffman. He is a laughable kind of character, but you

00:14:02   know, beer marketing in the U S especially with the major brands literally has gotten

00:14:06   to the point where they, they, um, it's all about things that don't matter. And all the

00:14:11   marketing is also becoming like, we know that anybody who really cares about the flavor

00:14:15   of their beer is buying like micro brews. So they're leaning into the whole idea that

00:14:20   their brand is for people who don't want fancy beer, for people who don't care what their

00:14:24   beer tastes like essentially. Right. Like just go with what you got, right? Like if

00:14:28   I was in the CMO of a, uh, of a beer chain, that's probably what I would do. I mean, I

00:14:34   laugh at it cause they're literally, it's like, our beer is crappy, uh, but you don't

00:14:38   care, so drink it. But what they also do, because then how do you differentiate against

00:14:42   your competitors? And so they pick out things. So like famously one, one of these guys, uh,

00:14:48   was it Bud Light? It was somebody, uh, who was doing, um, who was saying, uh, our competitors

00:14:53   are made with corn syrup, but we're not, which is hilarious. Cause one of the competitors

00:14:56   then immediately on Twitter was like, we don't use corn syrup. What are you talking about?

00:15:00   And the corn growers got very angry with them and they're like, that's American corn. You're

00:15:04   I did see that ad though. I found it quite funny. I did find it really funny. And then

00:15:09   my, my favorite is that the Coors Light ads are all about how they keep it cold. Everything

00:15:12   they do is cold. And I asked somebody I know who's involved in beer, does it matter at

00:15:16   all if the beer remains cold in all of these points? And he says, no, that's marketing.

00:15:20   They, they refrigerate this place and do this all just for marketing so that they can say

00:15:25   it, it, it makes, when you think of us think cold, so they've got cold going for them.

00:15:31   Anyway, beer marketing is fascinating, but this, but I, so I hate these Bud Light ads.

00:15:35   They're really annoying. Um, and this, there was a new one and I was just rolling my eyes

00:15:40   and they're like, oh, the Bud Knight, which is the guy, the Duffman, the Bud Knight is

00:15:44   going to do a jousting contest. And I, and I jokingly said, oh, like, uh, like, like

00:15:51   Game of Thrones. Cause there's famously a jousting scene in an early, in the first season,

00:15:55   I think of, of Game of Thrones. And, um, and then he, the joust happens and the Bud Knight

00:16:00   is hit and knocked off his horse onto the ground. And I think, well, that's weird. Why

00:16:05   would he be on the ground? Um, and then a large Knight stands over him and, and Lauren

00:16:11   says, well, that's the mountain. Like this literally, I'm like, they're doing, they're

00:16:14   doing Game of Thrones. That's really funny. And the large Knight leans down and rips the

00:16:20   head off of the Bud Knight. And I'm like, oh my God, they killed their mascot. What

00:16:24   is happening? At which point, uh, the dragon, one of the dragons from Game of Thrones appears

00:16:29   and sets all of the other characters in the annoying Bud Light commercial on fire. And

00:16:34   the text comes up saying, uh, the, the last season of Game of Thrones premiers, whenever

00:16:39   April, whatever. And I laughed and laughed because that required, um, HBO to work with

00:16:45   Budweiser to allow them to basically murder all of their characters and mock them in this

00:16:52   horrible way. But it was brilliant because, um, and my other commercial that I liked was

00:16:58   very similar in that you think you're seeing something, but you're not, you're actually,

00:17:02   you've been fooled into seeing something else. And I was congratulating myself on the fact

00:17:06   that they were making references to Game of Thrones and then it turned out, oh no, it's

00:17:09   actually a Game of Thrones commercial. So it was really good. I was impressed and I,

00:17:13   I hate those commercials. So I think that was part of it is that I enjoyed, um, the

00:17:17   annoying king and soldiers and, and the stupid Bud Knight being killed horribly in their

00:17:22   own commercial. It was great. So I, uh, I saw a quote on the Wall Street

00:17:27   Journal, which I love because obviously HBO and, and, and as a Bush had to get together

00:17:32   to work on this, right? HBO's chief marketing officer, Chris Spadaccini said very clearly

00:17:41   the Bud Knight had to die. Like they were only doing it if the Knight dies. Like, oh,

00:17:46   we just hurt the Knight. Yeah. Like the Knight has to die because they're going up against

00:17:51   one of our characters. Like, and, and again, it's one of those things.

00:17:54   And Game of Thrones is a show where people die. Yeah.

00:17:57   And HBO know that, that they don't need this Bud ad, right? Like they don't need that.

00:18:02   This is Bud's thing, but like HBO will get some headlines for a couple of days out of

00:18:07   it. But so I love the idea of like, no, no, your character dies if we're going to be in

00:18:11   your ad. Yeah, it was good. Uh, and the other one I

00:18:15   liked, which was obviously only in the U S because it's for CBS All Access. So CBS All

00:18:19   Access, um, is doing a, they announced this last year. Um, uh, Jordan Peele is doing a

00:18:27   relaunch of the Twilight zone. And that was a really good ad because it starts as, um,

00:18:35   with the CBS announcers and a shot of the, of the stadium it's as they're coming back

00:18:40   from commercial. And so it's like, we're back here and then it glitches out. Um, and says,

00:18:48   CBS is off the air and then, and you're, and then you hear this narration and you eventually

00:18:54   are on the field of an empty version of the stadium. Um, as Jordan Peele is walking down

00:19:02   the, uh, down the, the, the middle of the field, uh, and it's revealed that he is giving

00:19:07   the narration and there's a, uh, basically a door standing in the middle of the field,

00:19:12   which he opens and steps through and disappears, um, because it's the door to the Twilight

00:19:15   zone. And I thought that was just very well done because people didn't, unless you were

00:19:20   reading the news, people didn't know that CBS All Access was bringing back the Twilight

00:19:24   zone and, uh, that it was Jordan Peele. And it was also, it got your attention because

00:19:29   it acted like they were coming back to the broadcast. So everybody like turns back. I

00:19:34   found that a lot that I am so, um, I am so tuned into ignoring commercials. And then during

00:19:40   the Superbowl, I'm like, no, no, no, no, pay attention, pay attention. The commercials

00:19:43   matter because as soon as they go to commercial, my brain goes somewhere else. Cause I'm like,

00:19:48   I don't care about these commercials and I have to force myself back. But this was the

00:19:51   reverse of that where it's like, Oh, Oh, the, the game's coming back. Oh, it's an ad. So,

00:19:56   so yeah, but I liked that. I liked that ad. I thought that was really appropriate in getting

00:20:00   the message out about them relaunching the Twilight zone.

00:20:05   So according to a report from the Information, Apple has been telling various studios and

00:20:10   networks quote, whose offerings will be available through their service to be ready for launch

00:20:15   by mid April. Now, so this is a report basically stating April is the date or within a few

00:20:23   weeks of April is the date for the launch of Apple's TV streaming service, which I think

00:20:28   is a date that me and you had pegged out like early spring. Um, it's funny because April

00:20:33   is when Disney is going to be demoing their service. So like that, that's kind of fun,

00:20:38   right? Like they're like sticking the knife in a little bit. Ah, here is ours. Now I want

00:20:43   to just that quote specifically because of the way it's written has I think led to a

00:20:47   lot of speculation from different people about what actually is going on here. And we're

00:20:53   going to get to a little bit more of that later on when we talk about Apple's Q1 results.

00:20:57   But so the idea of, um, net studios and networks whose offerings will be a part of this on

00:21:04   the face of it, make it sound like back catalog stuff, right? But that's not necessarily the

00:21:11   case, right? Based upon the kind of the information that we know about how this stuff works from

00:21:15   having followed it for so long that it might not be as clear cut as that. Yeah, I still

00:21:20   feel like the most likely scenario is that they're just going to offer originals. Me

00:21:24   too. But who knows? But networks and studios are producing this content for Apple, right?

00:21:29   Like that. So, you know, it might just be like, here's the question of studios and networks

00:21:33   are different. I mean, even though they're often owned by the same people like studios

00:21:38   make content for clients and networks are the, are the broadcasters and really the studios

00:21:44   own the, own the rights. Although that's where it gets mixed up because a lot of times the

00:21:48   network is the studio and the rights are with both of them. So I think that this is going

00:21:54   down a rabbit hole of like, we don't know, but I'm just going to assume for now that

00:21:59   it's all originals, original movies, original TV shows. We seem to be entering an era where

00:22:04   all the studios have their own owned and operated TV networks and all their owned and operated

00:22:09   streaming services, and they're not licensing content anywhere, but I wouldn't put it past

00:22:13   I think we said this last year at some point to license some additional content that's

00:22:18   related to the material that they're putting on. So like, my example was like Ron Moore,

00:22:24   like would they cut a deal with Universal for Battlestar Galactica or something like

00:22:31   that? So that they could be like, you know, if you like the Ron Moore sci-fi show, check

00:22:36   out that we also have his Battlestar Galactica, something like that might be the case, but

00:22:42   you know, I kind of doubt it. I think it's just going to be originals. It's nice and

00:22:46   simple that way.

00:22:47   All right, today's episode is brought to you by Eero. With Eero, you can build a Wi-Fi

00:22:52   system perfectly tailored to your home. Considering the high bandwidth world that we live in right

00:22:57   now, like for example, you're probably streaming content in many places in your home at the

00:23:01   exact same time always, you need a distributed system that you have at home with you to make

00:23:06   sure that you can get the best speeds available whether you're in the front room, the bedroom,

00:23:10   or maybe out in the backyard or something. And with Eero, you can install an enterprise

00:23:15   grade Wi-Fi system in your home in just a few minutes. It all starts with the second

00:23:19   gen Eero device which has three 5 gigahertz radios which allows for increased speed, range

00:23:24   and capability. It sits flat on any surface and connects either over Ethernet or wirelessly.

00:23:31   Then you can easily expand the coverage throughout your whole home by adding in some Eero beacons.

00:23:37   These are small devices you plug directly into your wall, allowing you to expand and

00:23:40   reach that coverage into every single corner of your home. Eero also has Eero Plus now

00:23:46   which is a new service they've introduced. Eero Plus is designed to provide simple reliable

00:23:51   security to help defend all the devices in your home from malware, phishing and unsuitable

00:23:57   content. Eero Plus can automatically tag sites that contain violent, illegal or adult content

00:24:02   so you have powerful parental controls at your fingertips. It includes ad blocking functionality

00:24:06   to help improve load times for websites full of privacy invading ad tracking. And it's

00:24:11   also possible to have Eero Plus check the sites that you visit against a database of

00:24:15   millions of unknown threats to prevent you from visiting sites that are malicious if

00:24:19   that's something you want. Eero Plus includes descriptions to 1Password for password management,

00:24:24   Malwarebytes for antivirus solutions and encrypt.me as well. So Jason, I know that you are an

00:24:29   Eero customer. Tell me something about using Eero.

00:24:32   JASON: I like to talk about the setup because the setup was easy. It was essentially, if

00:24:38   you can imagine, what if Apple still made airport base stations and they had gotten

00:24:42   into mesh networking. They want to make it as easy as possible to add all of those different

00:24:46   items. And the Eero app is like that. You plug one in and then say, "Okay, set that

00:24:51   up." And then it says, "Do you have more?" And then you plug the next one in and set

00:24:54   that up. And it took no time to convert my entire house from my old Wi-Fi system which

00:25:00   was unreliable to my new one which is solid and it's just not an issue. In fact, I was

00:25:05   just moving them around the other day because I wanted to make sure I had—we had some

00:25:09   storms coming through—I wanted to make sure I had one of my Eeros on a UPS so that if

00:25:14   the power goes out, the Wi-Fi and the cable modem and the router will all still be on

00:25:21   so that our battery devices can last a little bit longer. And I did that too. Super easy.

00:25:26   You should never need to think about Wi-Fi again. Get $100 off the Eero base unit and

00:25:31   two beacons package and one year of Eero Plus by going to Eero.com/ahoy and at checkout

00:25:38   use the promo code AHOY. So that is $100 off the Eero base unit and two beacons package

00:25:44   and one year of Eero Plus. If you have heard ads in the past, you haven't got an Eero

00:25:48   yet, this is a great price. This is a really good discount. Eero doesn't always do discounts

00:25:54   so this is definitely worth jumping on. That's Eero.com/ahoy and the code AHOY to get that

00:26:01   offer for upgrade listeners. Our thanks to Eero for their support of this show and RelayFM.

00:26:08   Apple's dramatic Q1 results. We were expecting them. We knew what they were going to be by

00:26:16   and large in some areas, but I still want to go through some numbers, Jason.

00:26:21   Okay. $84.3 billion in revenue down from $88.3 the year before. This was the stuff that we

00:26:28   kind of had an idea we knew was going to go wrong. But as it's worth pointing out, this

00:26:33   is Apple's second highest revenue quarter in history. They did $20 billion in profit

00:26:40   down from $20.1. Now we have, this is the first quarter as well where we do not have

00:26:45   unit sales anymore, but we do have revenue figures. So services revenue is at $10.9 billion

00:26:54   up from $9.1. Wearable home and accessories, which is a new category, which was previously

00:27:00   called other products, but they've now kind of categorized what other actually means,

00:27:06   which is very useful, is $7.3 billion up from $5.5. Mac revenue is $7.4 up from $6.8.

00:27:15   This was Apple's best quarter for Mac revenue up 9% fueled by new Mac minis and MacBook

00:27:21   Airs. This was a quote from Apple, right? That was where that came from, the Mac mini

00:27:25   and the MacBook Air. We could have guessed it, but it's good to know. iPad revenue was

00:27:29   $6.7 billion up from $5.7 billion. So iPad revenue was up 17% year over year, which is

00:27:37   the highest growth rate in almost six years because of the new iPad Pros, which is fantastic

00:27:42   to see.

00:27:43   So we found out that if you release new products, you make more money. Turns out the Mac and

00:27:49   the iPad taught us that.

00:27:50   I guess the better they are, the more you'll make, right? Because we've seen new iPad Pros

00:27:54   in the past, but these new new iPad Pros are amazing.

00:27:57   So it's more expensive. But they have both of those things going for it. And pent up

00:28:01   demand is also a big part of it. It'll be interesting to see how this resets over time

00:28:05   and whether there's a big spike and then it goes back down a lot or just a little bit

00:28:09   and what the levels are for the Mac. Best quarter ever for Mac revenue is pretty impressive

00:28:15   too, right?

00:28:16   That's wild.

00:28:17   The Mac's been around a long time and they've never sold as many dollars-wise Macs in a

00:28:23   year, which is pretty incredible.

00:28:26   And iPhone revenue is at $52 billion down from $61.1 billion, which is the third highest.

00:28:37   So it's the second highest quarter of revenue ever for Apple. But on iPhone revenue, it's

00:28:44   actually not only down from holiday 17, it's actually down from holiday 16 a little bit.

00:28:52   So definitely a big bump.

00:28:55   Myke, it's really reminding me of the year after the iPhone 6 came out. And I think there's

00:29:05   a lot here about buying cycles that goes beyond just sort of like iPhone up, iPhone down that

00:29:11   has to do with like the iPhone 10, which was a completely new phone after years of the

00:29:16   same phone. And it sold pretty well and enough to keep the sales growing and to have a record

00:29:23   sales year for sales quarter for iPhone last year.

00:29:27   But this year, the 10s is not appreciably different than the 10. It is different. We

00:29:34   know the details, but it looks exactly like it. And what we learned with the 6 and the

00:29:39   6s is that there was pent up demand for the bigger phone, the 6 Plus, and there was pent

00:29:44   up demand for a new looking iPhone after the years of the 4 and 5. And they had a huge

00:29:52   year for both of those things. And then the next year was tough to live down as we lived

00:29:57   through it and talked about it. Like year over year, they just took the hit for three

00:30:01   consecutive quarters because the year two didn't have the pent up demand and the phones

00:30:07   weren't as exciting. And so the 10s very much like that. What's interesting here is I think

00:30:16   that Apple said the 10r was their best selling phone and the 10s Max was their second best

00:30:23   selling phone. And what's most notable about those things is neither of those phones had

00:30:28   an analog last year. So they were both new that probably addressed some pent up demand,

00:30:33   right? The 10s Max had some pent up demand from people who wanted to be Plus Club but

00:30:39   had no choice if they wanted the 10, but the 10s Max fulfilled something that wasn't there

00:30:46   before. And the 10r obviously being not cheap but cheaper, bringing those 10 features down

00:30:54   into this price range that wasn't available last year. And those were the two best selling

00:30:58   phones. So I think, and we don't know for sure, but my read on that was that this is

00:31:05   that effect as well. It's not just the maturing of the smartphone market or they're related.

00:31:09   I think they're interrelated. But there's this idea, I mean, especially in China, but

00:31:13   I think overall that when you have a new iPhone that looks new, that's appreciably new and

00:31:19   different and wasn't on offer last year, more people will buy. And as the life cycle of

00:31:26   a phone lengthens and you hold a phone even longer, you need a reason to get a new phone.

00:31:33   If your phone is still lasting but it's getting old, everybody's playing the do I sit out

00:31:37   this year or not game. And if there's something new like the 10r or the 10s Max, you say,

00:31:44   oh, okay, I'll jump in. If it's just, I can't tell you how many people I've talked to who

00:31:48   are like, yeah, I have a 10. It's fine. I don't need the 10s. And it's like, you know,

00:31:52   buying a new phone every year is not something most people do anyway, of course. But I do

00:31:55   think that there's something more to that, which is also also it's an incremental increase

00:32:00   and therefore less exciting, which doesn't mean people aren't buying the 10s people coming

00:32:03   from the seven success six might be buying the 10s. But in terms of like the big volume

00:32:09   of like, oh, the phones are growing. You need kind of all of the things to align at once.

00:32:16   So my guess, my gut feeling here is that the 10r and the 10s Max actually helped this number

00:32:21   be better than it would otherwise have been. If this was a straight up, you know, what

00:32:28   they used to do, which is just slightly advanced the ball in year two, you know, go from the

00:32:32   seven to the eight. It will, they added the 10 then, but go from the success to the seven,

00:32:36   right? Like if it was one of those years, I think the sales would have been way worse.

00:32:40   It also makes me wonder then if we leap off from that this weird year where Apple had

00:32:45   like the three phones. If that's something that Apple is going to try to keep in mind

00:32:49   where it's always got some model that is fresher so that even if they can't do a completely

00:32:55   refreshed line every year, which I know I'm not sure they're capable of completely refreshing

00:32:59   it where they all like look different and are different sizes. Like I don't think that's

00:33:02   possible. I do wonder if their strategy is going to be like, let's move it around and

00:33:08   you know, make sure that there's something, there's always something intriguing and new

00:33:11   and interesting in the product line for people who are waiting for and looking for a reason

00:33:16   to jump.

00:33:17   Yeah, but as we know, and we're going to talk a little bit about later on today, we're not

00:33:22   going to see that in 2019 because it's too late, right? Like they definitely found this

00:33:26   information out just too late in the iPhone design process. So we were most likely to

00:33:32   expect from 2020 to see differences, if any, from a hardware perspective, right? Like,

00:33:38   because it just feels like it would be way too late in the development of the 2019 iPhone

00:33:42   before they could have made that decision. Like that, that product must have been pretty

00:33:47   much locked down from a hardware design perspective when they found this information out, which

00:33:53   was, you know, like October probably when they found out that this thing wasn't going

00:33:57   the way they wanted. Um, so yeah, but, but super interesting. I hadn't thought about

00:34:02   that about the, um, the 10 R and the max being like a pent up demand type thing, right? Like

00:34:07   even maybe hiding the crimes more, even though it already looks bad, right? But like if they

00:34:13   would have had the 10 R and the max last year that this year could have been a real, real

00:34:19   disaster, right? Like if they, if they only had iterations or if they didn't do the max

00:34:24   and the VR, like they just did the 10 S and like the 8 S or whatever, or like the 9 or

00:34:30   whatever they were at, I can't even remember the numbers anymore. It feels like so long

00:34:33   ago that maybe it would have been even worse for them than it ended up being. Um, at the

00:34:40   end of last week's episode, we, we, we both predicted that they would say more about their

00:34:44   streaming service plans. They did, but not to the level that we thought. So, uh, there

00:34:49   were a couple of quotes of interest. So Apple spoke about working with TV manufacturers

00:34:54   and the reason that they're doing this and integrating AirPlay and or content into these

00:34:59   TVs is because they want to make it easier for their customers to consume the video that

00:35:04   Apple makes available. Like they were being a little bit coy, right? They were kind of

00:35:09   just making it sound like, Oh no, not just our content, like everyone's content. Um,

00:35:14   and on that, the Apple spoke about trying to push more on selling third party TV services.

00:35:19   And I wonder what that means. My read on this, Jason, is either damage control or response

00:35:27   to Netflix pulling out. I wouldn't be surprised to see some kind of business model changes

00:35:33   from Apple for this type of content, um, going forward that maybe they want to try and do

00:35:37   something to bring Netflix back and, and stop other people from wanting to do this type

00:35:42   of stuff to leave the app store for subscriptions. Well, yeah, for subscriptions is the key there.

00:35:47   It's just, it's not leaving the app store. It's just leaving the app store for subscriptions.

00:35:50   And I think, I think what they want to do is make the TV, uh, app the center of the

00:35:55   attention. And at that point it's the Amazon channels model, which is, um, you want to

00:36:02   be in our TV app because this is where, um, this is where everything is going to be. It's,

00:36:08   it's basically saying, forget this app store stuff on Apple TV. Uh, what it's really about

00:36:13   is video stuff channeling into the, uh, in the TV app and you want to be in there and

00:36:18   you want to be in there with all of the other stuff. And, and, uh, you want to let, let

00:36:22   us be a, you be a reseller and sell, uh, your subscriptions there. Um, and maybe there's

00:36:29   a deal that goes with that where it's a dramatically increased percentage of that Apple takes as

00:36:33   a reseller of, uh, of channels. Um, I don't know, I don't know. It, cause when you think

00:36:38   about it, I mean, even if there's an app behind the scenes, um, that's doing it, living in

00:36:43   the TV app is a little bit different than living in the app store and selling a subscription

00:36:46   in the TV app maybe is a little bit different too. So, um, I'm sure that they're going to

00:36:51   do this because of course they are. I, my favorite thing about what Tim Cook talked

00:36:56   about in there was just his, I think, restating of something that he said before, which is

00:37:01   the idea that we are undergoing a shift in how people, um, how, I mean, it's huge changes

00:37:09   in customer behavior. He said that will accelerate as the year goes by to the breakdown of the

00:37:14   cable bundle. That's been talked about for years. And I think that'll very likely take

00:37:18   place at a much faster pace this year. So we're going to participate in that in a variety

00:37:24   of ways through Apple TV, airplay too, as you pointed out, he says to the analyst, we've

00:37:30   got third party TVs and we're excited about that. And third party video subscriptions,

00:37:35   uh, that's going to accelerate in the future, he says, and then original content, we will

00:37:40   participate. I'm not going to extend that conversation beyond that point. We hired some

00:37:43   great people and they're working really hard, which he said before. So, but I like that

00:37:47   he listed them all. And they also called out the Oprah deal again, right? Which is the

00:37:52   one they've done before. Yes. Cause we already mentioned Oprah so that they mentioned Oprah

00:37:56   again cause you gotta just keep mentioning Oprah. Uh, the, uh, but that I like that cause

00:38:00   he sketches out like, like we're doing all of these different things in this area because

00:38:03   we do think that this is a, uh, an opportunity because of the huge changes in customer behavior

00:38:08   and he's not wrong. Whether Apple can ultimately capitalize it on it is a, an open question,

00:38:13   but he's not wrong. This, uh, the customer behavior is changing rapidly. I think it's

00:38:17   interesting that he believes it will accelerate as the year goes by. Uh, I think that's also

00:38:22   accurate how fast it accelerates. The rate of acceleration is the real question, but

00:38:27   since 2019 is the year where all of these streaming services are being announced and

00:38:30   launching or coming, you know, early 2020 for NBC universal, but like it's, it's gonna

00:38:35   happen really fast. So, uh, Apple will participate, but beyond that, they're not talking. Yeah.

00:38:40   I genuinely like if I'm looking at reading the tea leaves here, I think that there are

00:38:44   big changes coming to the Apple TV. Um, and like for example, if there were, if Apple

00:38:49   were going to start saying, you know, be in the TV app, like don't worry about your app

00:38:54   as much and we'll, we will give you a sweet cut. And then they just have a device that

00:38:58   doesn't have apps. It has TV and it has the iTunes store and you can sign up for Netflix,

00:39:04   right? And Netflix is just there in the TV app. Like you don't have to get the Netflix

00:39:08   app anymore and it kind of simplify things. I don't know. But like it feels like that

00:39:11   they're putting a lot more emphasis on the idea of being an over the top cable provider

00:39:18   than an app store, right? Like it feels like there's like a change in the wording that

00:39:24   they're using, like way more focusing on like, we're going to help third party sell their

00:39:29   TV services, which is a very different way of talking about things than what they've

00:39:33   done in the past. So I don't know. I'm keen to see what they do there. Peter Kafka put

00:39:38   it quite nicely. So like, so if you take everything they said, put it all in one place, speed

00:39:43   it up. What you get is we're going to sell a bundle of app of other people's TV shows

00:39:48   and movies. We're going to add our own and make sure you can watch it anywhere you want.

00:39:52   Yep. So, but I'm keen to see what the, the other people part looks like. Cause I don't

00:39:59   feel like I have a great handle on if or what they're going to change in that to make it

00:40:07   more amenable and maybe less about the app store, if anything. So I'm keen to see what

00:40:13   they do there, but we learned a bunch of other stuff from the call. So a couple of things

00:40:18   on pricing, obviously pricing, something that a lot of people thinking about right now.

00:40:23   Pricing is a reason that a lot of people saying Apple maybe missed the mark here in some areas.

00:40:29   So Apple believe the 10 R is priced, right. As it was in the middle of where the entry

00:40:34   iPhone eight and entry iPhone eight plus had been priced. So Tim Cook, this is a Tim Cook

00:40:40   quote says actually a pretty small difference in the United States compared to last year.

00:40:45   Uh, yeah. So, uh, yeah, this is, I, I, I literally asked him, um, point blank in the Q and a,

00:40:55   and there weren't that many questions cause they Apple kind of, I think strategically

00:40:59   took most of the call just reading their statements, their prepared statements. So there was a

00:41:03   very little back and forth in the call, few analysts in the analyst call. Um, I think

00:41:08   that's telling to somebody should chart how much time they take with their prepared statements.

00:41:13   That would be a funny thing to do and correlate it with the earnings with the results. Sure.

00:41:18   Uh, the, or with the stock price move on the after hours. Uh, so what they, they asked

00:41:23   point blank, do you think that the iPhone is priced too high in the U S or a price too

00:41:27   high period? And, and, and Tim Cook given the opportunity to say, yeah, yeah, we did

00:41:34   that. He didn't, he said, no, it's fine. He said, and his re his logic was, uh, poor I'll

00:41:42   say, cause what he said was, well, you know, the tennis is priced the same as the 10. She's

00:41:47   like, okay, the 10 set records. It was the most expensive iPhone ever when you put it

00:41:51   on sale last year. So, uh, you're, you just kicked that back a year, but it's still, let's

00:41:56   ask that question. He said, and you know, the 10 S max is just a hundred dollars more

00:42:00   than that. And then he moved on and I'm like, but okay. So you just said, uh, that doesn't

00:42:06   answer like the pricing. It's like, yes, it's more, it costs even more than the phone you

00:42:09   introduced last year, which was the most expensive iPhone ever. And then on the 10 R he gives

00:42:14   this answer where he's like, well, if you average the price of the eight and the eight

00:42:18   plus it's right in the middle of those. So it's fine, which again, uh, the eight, the

00:42:25   eight itself was more expensive than the seven. And of course the eight was cheaper than the

00:42:32   10 R, uh, because people don't buy an average price. They buy a phone one or the other.

00:42:38   And that was his best way of trying to explain the 10 R being a low price phone is that it

00:42:42   was basically between the eight and the eight plus. And this is a non-answer. It's obviously

00:42:48   a coach non-answer. It is his way of saying, we're not going to change the prices. We think

00:42:53   that they're great. Um, in a, in a way that is just kind of, uh, it's like nonsense marketing

00:42:58   words. And, uh, I was a little disappointed cause I just rolled my eyes. It's like, come

00:43:01   on man. Just, uh, say that they're, they provide value and they, you know, the sales in the

00:43:06   U S were fine and it's fine. Um, he did go on to admit that they've really gotten hit

00:43:13   overseas in a lot of places, a lot of territories with this, because in addition to the high

00:43:16   prices, I will say that he won't say of these phones, uh, there were foreign exchange issues,

00:43:22   which made them even more expensive than they were last year, even by Tim's, uh, comparison

00:43:26   with the iPhone 10 and in a little bit of an announcement, I think, I don't think Apple

00:43:31   had said this somewhere. They were, they were actually undertaking some repricing in different

00:43:35   markets, uh, in January in order to get the prices to be close to, or to match what the

00:43:43   price was last year, which is basically that they were eating into their margin or they're

00:43:47   eating some of that foreign exchange consequence in order to get the phone this year to cost

00:43:52   what the phone cost last year, because it was more expensive because of the dollar was

00:43:58   too strong. I have not been able to find any evidence of price changes. I've spent some

00:44:05   time looking for this today. Um, I don't know if they are available to people yet. It may

00:44:10   not be. Yeah. And Tim's view of what happens in January might be, we agreed to do it, but

00:44:14   who knows if it's actually been done. Cause I can't find it, but that's what they're talking

00:44:18   about. The idea that if you're in some territory where, where, you know, it used to call cost

00:44:23   X of whatever your currency is last year and then like for the 10 and then the 10 S comes

00:44:28   out and it costs X plus some number and you're like, Oh my God, they raised the price and

00:44:32   they did it because of foreign exchange. It might be that they go back to X or close to

00:44:37   X, uh, in the near future. Um, because they do believe that that was a drain. So basically

00:44:44   the U S it's priced fine according to Apple, but it's just everywhere else where you take

00:44:49   Apple's high prices and then you add on foreign exchange that it's too high priced. Apparently

00:44:54   I sincerely doubt that they will, um, give anybody gift cards like they did when they

00:44:59   reduced the original iPhone's price. Uh, remember that? Like if you bought the iPhone, they

00:45:05   gave people gift cards. I don't know if it's the full value or like, no, I don't remember,

00:45:10   but like, no, they cut the price like two or $300 and gave everybody a hundred dollar

00:45:13   gift cards. I sincerely doubt that we're going to get gift cards in Europe for expensive

00:45:18   iPhones. Um, so one of the reasons that they spent talking some time about why iPhone sales

00:45:24   could be slowing is because the phones are lasting longer. So they're trying to take

00:45:29   a negative turn into a positive. I'll read a quote from Tim. Some people hold on to those

00:45:34   for the life of the product and some people trade them in and then that phone is then

00:45:38   there should be redistributed to someone else. The upgrade cycle has extended. There's no

00:45:42   doubt, no doubt about that where it goes in the future. I don't know, but I'm convinced

00:45:46   that making a great product that is high quality is the best thing for the customer and we

00:45:50   work for the user and so that's the way we look at it. Now, whilst this is bad for Apple's

00:45:57   earnings, if they do genuinely believe this, which I believe that they do believe it, and

00:46:01   if they don't change anything because they, you know, because of these results changing,

00:46:07   it feels like a good thing, right? Like make the best thing you can make.

00:46:11   It is, I feel like it's Apple kind of surfing with the conditions or maybe it is, I don't

00:46:18   know, skating where the puck should be. We don't have ice here in California, but if,

00:46:23   look, the upgrade cycle is extending, right? So what does Apple do? And I think the argument

00:46:28   here is that Apple would much prefer if everybody bought a new phone every two years and the

00:46:33   old cellular plans in the US at least, basically when you got to the end of your second year

00:46:38   with your phone, you were throwing money away if you didn't get a new phone. You essentially

00:46:43   were throwing money away because you were still paying a subsidy that was no longer

00:46:46   funding your phone. You were just paying it and it was just profit for the carrier. That

00:46:51   used to be how it worked. It was ridiculous. And as a result, like with all those two-year

00:46:56   cycles, everybody would get a new phone every two years. Well, that's not happening anymore.

00:46:59   There are a bunch of other places with subsidies like Japan where it's going away. It's going

00:47:03   away. And so now Apple is not going to sell as many iPhones, right? It's not, that was

00:47:10   really good for business. So they're going with this new world we live in and saying,

00:47:15   "If the average phone is being used for three or four years or five years, here's what we

00:47:20   need to do. We need to make sure that they last and that they work well for that whole

00:47:26   period of time so that in the end, people have a positive experience, they continue

00:47:30   to be our customer, they stay in our ecosystem, and ultimately they get a new phone when they're

00:47:33   ready." And so it's that combination. It's like when Apple talks about privacy. It is

00:47:38   a combination of a good business decision, a smart business decision, and also I think

00:47:43   the belief that it is the right thing to do, that they didn't come on the line with the

00:47:47   analysts and say, "Well, our goal is to make our phones break after a year and a half so

00:47:52   that people just have to buy a new phone. We're going to make them as poorly as possible

00:47:57   and unreliable so that they'll have to buy a new model." Because the argument is, and

00:48:00   Apple has made it, that if you make the phone really bad and it breaks really soon, why

00:48:04   would they come back to you? Why would they not go to a competitor? So I don't think this

00:48:08   is Apple's great largesse in saying, "Hey, everybody, stop buying iPhones so often. You

00:48:13   don't need to do that. It's wasteful." That's not what they're saying, right? They're saying,

00:48:16   "Oh, you're buying them less often. We need to change our approach here." And that approach

00:48:20   is maybe make them last longer. People know about the battery program, so that's going

00:48:25   to make them last longer. They're going to charge more for them, but they're going to

00:48:29   put more expensive parts into them, and they're going to make the OS survive on old hardware

00:48:35   longer. And that's their strategy now, but I think it's probably fair to say that it's

00:48:40   a strategy borne out of the fact that buying cycles are lengthening and not trying to create

00:48:47   that reality. That reality already exists. They're just going with it.

00:48:51   Part of this new reality is talking about the installed base on earnings calls. Now,

00:48:56   we hear these numbers every now and then thrown out at WWDC. They use a version of these numbers

00:49:01   sometimes, but this is talking about them, and they're being a bit loosey-goosey about

00:49:07   how often we're going to hear about this. This is not a thing we're going to hear about

00:49:11   every time. Apple will tell us this either A, when they need a good news thing, or B,

00:49:17   when it goes up. And so the installed base is how many iPhones and/or iOS devices...

00:49:25   Is it iPhones?

00:49:26   Well, so here's the thing. So they gave a global install base, and I think they've talked

00:49:31   about iOS install base before. They have not talked about iPhone install base on its own

00:49:36   before. This is a new number, and they said we will... This is their throwing a bone to

00:49:41   people who are complaining about not having numbers for iPhones, which is occasionally

00:49:45   will tell you about this number about all iPhones in use, which is, I was going to say

00:49:50   a made-up number. It's probably not a made-up number because they get the... All iPhones

00:49:57   that are activated are passed through the system, and so they actually probably have

00:50:01   a number of active iPhones that they can measure. We always used to estimate the Mac install

00:50:08   base back in the old days at Macworld and MacUser as a way to explain to people what

00:50:13   the size of the market was, and for advertising they would do that. And I always felt like

00:50:19   it was kind of made up because you're basically trying to do some math about, "Well, how long

00:50:22   does a Mac stand service?" And then you age them out and you build it up, and it's the

00:50:25   total number. So it's how many iPhones in this case are being used right now. They're

00:50:32   currently in use, and Apple says it's 900 million, which is a new number, which means

00:50:37   that probably in the next year or two we'll get a press release from Apple saying, "A

00:50:43   billion iPhones in use." That'll probably be the next time we hear about this number.

00:50:46   - Could be longer because it only grew by 75 million in the last year.

00:50:50   - Yeah, well, yeah, next year or two, like I said, I think if it grew 75 million in the

00:50:54   last year, then in 2020 there'll probably be a billion iPhones in use.

00:51:00   - Very true. So they said it's up year over year in all markets, which, I mean, at first

00:51:07   glance I was like, "Huh, really?" But then it's like, "Oh, well, yeah, of course," because

00:51:10   people that have their iPhones are keeping them. So the people that are only buying,

00:51:15   not only, but a larger amount of people that are buying them are probably new iPhone users.

00:51:20   - Yeah, so how do you show growth if your year over year growth isn't going up and your

00:51:25   buying cycle is extending? And the answer is, quote the installed base, because if that

00:51:30   is still growing, then you can quote that. And it's still growing, which means what's

00:51:34   happening is people are keeping their iPhones and then they're selling new iPhones, but

00:51:37   people are also, a lot of people are keeping their iPhones and then they're more net iPhones

00:51:43   in service at any given time. But this is where Apple is now, right? That's where they

00:51:46   need to show install-based growth. It fits into their services narrative because those

00:51:50   people are all theoretically eligible to be paying Apple money for services as well. But

00:51:55   it is also the, maybe not the last refuge, but a refuge of a company that can no longer

00:52:00   point to sales figures or even right now revenue figures and show growth on their most important

00:52:07   product.

00:52:09   - So China, China's a problem for them right now and it's gonna be a problem for a while,

00:52:14   I think. Apple have put so much effort into China, like even in the hardware, they created

00:52:20   the dual SIM for China. They've put, but they're not reaping the rewards right now. It's down

00:52:27   4.8 billion year over year. China is a big reason. It's not the only reason 'cause the

00:52:32   numbers don't add up. I still don't get that idea of where they said in that press release,

00:52:37   like, oh, it counts for the entire revenue drop.

00:52:40   - It counts for the entire shortfall from their estimate.

00:52:44   - But the iPhone still would have been down because the iPhone was down like $9 billion.

00:52:50   So anyway, so yeah, like sure. I feel pretty vindicated in that, right? 'Cause it was like,

00:52:58   it didn't feel right when they said that in that press release. And it's like, yeah, maybe

00:53:03   the overall revenue, but there were lots of things that were up. The iPhone was still

00:53:07   struggling, which means the iPhone's issues extended beyond China, right? This was something

00:53:13   that we believed, and that is confirmed now, that the iPhone's issues were not just a China

00:53:18   problem. It was an issue in many other places. So yeah, we can see that now 'cause we have

00:53:25   those numbers, but that is continuing to be an issue for them. It's probably gonna continue

00:53:30   to be an issue for them, which is I expect why, guidance for Q2, they are gliding another

00:53:36   down quarter. Apple's guidance is 3% down year over year, which is wild, right? That

00:53:45   this is the first time in many, many, many, many, many, many years that they have put

00:53:50   their guidance down, right? Like we had a record loss with this quarter where it's like,

00:53:55   oh, and they had to adjust it. The next one is like, oh, guidance is down. Carolina Milanese,

00:54:00   who is a frequent contributor to the download podcast on Relay FM, predicts that this is

00:54:06   because of, she thinks will be poor sales for Chinese New Year. And if the TV service

00:54:11   is launched, Carolina believes that this might be something saying that it could be US only

00:54:16   because maybe they're not gonna see that.

00:54:18   - I don't think appreciable TV service revenue is gonna happen this quarter regardless of

00:54:21   when they launch it because they'll probably do it with a free trial. So there'll be no

00:54:24   revenue there.

00:54:25   - Good point.

00:54:26   - And the reports are that they're gonna launch it quickly elsewhere, and I tend to believe

00:54:30   that because they're probably, the contracts are probably in place that they own worldwide

00:54:33   rights to all this stuff. And we'll just, it's just a matter of rolling it out and maybe

00:54:36   marketing it in different countries. And also if there are different laws in different countries

00:54:41   about like having local content and things like that, if they've got some European content

00:54:45   coming a little bit later, they might wait to launch it in Europe until that comes out.

00:54:49   There's a bunch of stuff, but I don't think it tells us anything about the TV service.

00:54:54   I do think though that it does mean Apple is battening down the hatches in terms of

00:54:57   iPhone sales and keep in mind also, they're not gonna have a new iPad in this quarter

00:55:05   and they're not gonna have new, probably new Macs in this quarter, maybe new iMacs or something,

00:55:10   but like this quarter is already a month gone. And so those numbers are probably going to

00:55:16   recede a little bit and then the iPhone is gonna stay down and that means they're gonna

00:55:19   be down year over year. So it's not surprising. Of course, from a Wall Street perspective,

00:55:27   the most important thing probably is that they now hit this guidance, right? Like the

00:55:30   guide correctly because then nobody wants to be surprised. So it'll be something to

00:55:35   watch about whether they're sandbagging this a little bit and it actually ends up better

00:55:39   or whether they are really trying to hit what they actually think it's gonna be. It would

00:55:45   be nice if they could be like, "Oh, it's better than expected. Oh, look at that."

00:55:48   I would be shocked if they are guiding this accurately. I mean, they like at least just

00:55:58   eek over that, right? Like they're just on the top end or just above the top end of their

00:56:04   guidance because that's a better story. Like they've at least got to be on the top end

00:56:09   of that guidance, you would hope. But they guided wrong last time. So we'll see, right?

00:56:17   This could hit them even harder than they're expecting for all we know. We don't know.

00:56:22   However, even though this is a quarter full of drama, Apple feel real good, right? They

00:56:27   feel great. Tim feels great.

00:56:29   Tim is bullish as always.

00:56:32   Tim's very bullish that Apple innovates like no company on earth. They're not taking the

00:56:36   foot off the gas. They're confident as ever in the fundamental strength of the business.

00:56:42   Strong pipeline of products and services. There's some exciting announcements coming

00:56:46   later this year.

00:56:48   And the message that he sent about economic instability, which I appreciated, which is

00:56:53   exactly what he should have said, which is we're not taking our foot off the gas. We'll

00:56:57   keep investing through near-term headwinds as we always have and we'll emerge stronger

00:57:01   as a result. And this is the thing that baffled me about all that talk about like, "Oh, Apple

00:57:07   is doing hiring freezes and reducing staff and limiting their hiring because they think

00:57:11   there's going to be a recession." It's like, "No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Apple has all

00:57:14   the money." Apple does exactly what Tim Cook says here is you got the money, you keep investing,

00:57:20   your competitors are getting hit by the headwinds, you get to go push through it. And when the

00:57:25   wind shifts later, "Oh, you've been working on all this stuff in the meantime." And everything

00:57:31   is actually stronger now because you were able to weather the storm.

00:57:35   That's the way to approach it.

00:57:36   You are in the prime position, right? Like when everybody else needs to make cutbacks,

00:57:40   you can go harder and faster than ever before, right? Like this has got to be the way that

00:57:47   they roll, right? Like you can only naturally assume that because otherwise, what are you

00:57:53   doing with the money, right? Like what are you doing with it? If you're not buying companies

00:57:58   with it, like huge companies with it, you're just sitting on it, you've got a war chest.

00:58:02   This is what the war chest is for. It's for war, right? Like war is high austerity. That's

00:58:07   what you're in.

00:58:08   Exactly. There is nobody, I think, demanding that Apple demonstrate for show that they're

00:58:14   concerned about the economy, right? Like you should lay off some people just so it makes

00:58:17   it seem like you care that you're worried or something. It's like, no, no, no, no, no,

00:58:22   no. Hire all the laid off people. Exactly right. And you get them working on your stuff

00:58:26   that's critical because you've got the cash, you can do that. And then you're going to

00:58:31   come out stronger. And that is what Tim Cook went out of his way during the analyst call

00:58:36   to say that. And I thought that was good because that's again, yes, that's what Apple should

00:58:40   be doing here is just keep on you invest through the downturn or as he said, through the near

00:58:45   term headwinds because they love the wind metaphors and that's the right thing to do.

00:58:53   I knew this was going to be a dramatic quarter and it was right. Like as soon as we got that

00:58:58   news and you, it's going to be fun to talk about. And, and I had fun talking about that.

00:59:01   I now can't wait for the next one. I'm really excited now. Uh, what is it? What is it going

00:59:06   to be? We don't know. We've got some, uh, some turbulence now. It's fun. Yes. Today's

00:59:12   episode is also brought to you by TextExpander from our friends at Smile. Copy and paste

00:59:17   is not a good way to keep track of the things that you need to type over and over and over

00:59:20   again because I know if you're anything like me, sometimes I think I have something on

00:59:25   the clipboard that I definitely do not because I've just gone around and done some stuff

00:59:28   and or I have something on my Mac's clipboard, like great, it's on the clipboard and then

00:59:33   I do something on my iPhone. Now my iPhone's clipboard is on the Mac. Don't rely on the

00:59:38   clipboard. Use TextExpander. TextExpander makes you more productive. It takes care of

00:59:43   those words and phrases for you. You can store frequently used phrases into snippets and

00:59:47   they'll expand of a short abbreviation as you're typing. TextExpander works in so many

00:59:52   of your favorite apps. It's integrated. Um, if you're on, on iOS, if you're on the Mac,

00:59:56   it works everywhere, but also on iOS, you can use a keyboard and have TextExpander snippets

01:00:01   wherever you want to use them. Whether you're using Word or Excel, Pages or Numbers, Illustrator,

01:00:06   Pixelmator, it doesn't matter. TextExpander is there with you. You have all your snippets

01:00:10   everywhere. TextExpander instantly updates new and edited snippets between your Mac,

01:00:15   your iPhone, your iPad, or even your Windows PC so you can spend less time typing and more

01:00:20   time doing the things you want to be doing. You can even join free snippet groups for

01:00:24   recruiters and freelancers and maybe airport codes, brand names. I joined some years ago

01:00:30   that like automatically brand like changed some Apple products for me so I get like the

01:00:35   correct capitalization of Apple products, which can be a nightmare sometimes. And if

01:00:40   you don't work alone, you don't have to work alone because TextExpander for Teams lets

01:00:44   you manage and share the snippets that you have in your company, whether that's with

01:00:48   a couple of coworkers or with hundreds. Go to TextExpander.com/podcast right now and

01:00:53   you can get 20% off your first year. That is TextExpander.com/podcast. Get 20% off your

01:00:59   first year and if they ask where you heard about them, tell them it's from upgrade.

01:01:03   Our thanks to TextExpander for their support of this show and Relay FM.

01:01:09   So there was a patent filing today as we recorded this.

01:01:14   Oh patents, patents you say?

01:01:16   Now we very, I mean I kind of make it a policy to not talk about patents in general because

01:01:21   you talk about one, you'll talk about all of them and you'll talk about them forever.

01:01:25   But this one is funny to me. It's keyboard, keyboard patent where either Apple's trying

01:01:32   to A, find a solution or B, flip the bird at everybody by patenting a solid glass keyboard

01:01:42   for laptops. Just a pane of glass with a…

01:01:46   Yeah, it's not, it's not quite, they already, in fact I wrote an article about this last

01:01:50   year I think at Macworld, we can put it in the show notes, about them patenting basically

01:01:56   the touch bar except it's the whole keyboard. And this one is a little different in that

01:02:01   it's, the idea here is that it's a glass panel but that the key areas are all raised

01:02:07   so they feel like keys.

01:02:08   It has a little flexibility to it too apparently and I'm sure uses the force touch technology

01:02:14   and all that kind of stuff, what 3D touch or whatever.

01:02:16   I'm sure that and there was some speculation that ultimately it might be something where

01:02:21   they could put a display underneath it where you know you could remap the keys and they

01:02:25   could change in context and all of those things while still offering kind of physical things.

01:02:28   And this, if you look at that patent too, clearly somebody at Apple and who knows where

01:02:34   and who knows why but clearly somebody at Apple has been investigating ways of taking

01:02:40   essentially touchscreen technology and merging it with keyboards. And the first attempt was

01:02:45   their big touch bar that was a whole keyboard. And this one seems to be well we need to be

01:02:50   more tactile.

01:02:51   People need to be able to feel where the keys are. They need to be able to press down and

01:02:54   feel some sort of feedback. And you know the reason we mentioned patents, because patents

01:02:59   are silly right? Like patents can be totally what Apple's doing and it can be a thing that

01:03:04   Apple's totally not doing but that they invented so they're going to patent it because why

01:03:07   not? That's how patents work. It's not a product rumor. It's something completely different.

01:03:14   But everybody's angry about, well not everybody, but lots of people are angry about keyboards.

01:03:20   Lots of people are already freaking out in the chat room as well. But we're here I think

01:03:24   to put people's minds at rest today.

01:03:28   Are we?

01:03:29   I'm going to. I'm going to try. I'm going to try.

01:03:32   Okay. I'm not. I'm going to ruin this. So you go first and then I'll ruin what you say.

01:03:37   Please everyone calm down. I think that this is a good thing. Now let me tell you why before

01:03:42   you tweet at me and tell me how bad it would be for a touch typist. This patent I believe

01:03:49   is a response to the current laptop keyboard situation because I think that this shows

01:03:55   that people at Apple are getting together and they are trying to work out how to fix

01:04:02   their keyboard problem. And this was one of the wild ideas that they had which they're

01:04:07   not going to do anytime soon if ever. But it shows that conversations are happening

01:04:12   about how can we make our keyboard problems better. Like what can we do to stop dust from

01:04:17   getting it under the keys. Well what if there was no under the keys. That's interesting.

01:04:21   They put they like put it on a board. They filed a patent because someone had the idea

01:04:26   and then they clock it away and they maybe never come to it again. But I think what it's

01:04:29   showing is that they are talking about the keyboard issue. It's better to see stuff like

01:04:35   this for them to go nah it's good. I think that this is a whilst wild idea. It's probably

01:04:43   not going to come to the Mac maybe ever. I think that this is a not Mac product. This

01:04:48   is a future computer product right. Like the idea of this plane. This is I look at this

01:04:54   as like that seems interesting but seems so futuristic in what they would need to build

01:04:59   and probably quite difficult. That is many many many many years into the future before

01:05:03   you'd get something like this which means is probably for some other touch based product

01:05:09   that we may see as a result of the merging of the OS's. That would be my view on this.

01:05:14   It seems like it's probably not anytime soon. But I think what it shows is people are trying

01:05:20   to get together to talk about changing their keyboards. Try and see the silver lining hopefully

01:05:25   maybe in a conversation like this. Uh huh. Okay so you're right in that it shows that

01:05:31   somebody some group at Apple is trying to think about the keyboard and there's no doubt

01:05:37   that Apple has heard that this keyboard is a problem from users. They've seen the issues.

01:05:44   They keep trying to put band-aids on this existing keyboard design. I think it's clear

01:05:48   that they're going in a different direction. What is interesting to me about this is that

01:05:53   there is this fork in the road and I think there are people at Apple who tend toward

01:05:59   one you know do you go left or right. One direction is you know what we got to go backward.

01:06:06   I know that Apple hates going backward but like our old keyboards were pretty good. We've

01:06:11   learned some things about designing this keyboard that we can apply to a new keyboard but what

01:06:16   we what we've learned is people want you know people people are concerned about the the

01:06:21   reliability and we didn't do a great job and it's we're still kind of band-aiding that

01:06:26   and then they're also you know there's this feeling about about travel and sound and we've

01:06:31   done better because I do believe that third generation keyboard actually is way better.

01:06:36   They have improved it a lot in terms of sort of getting the balance of it. It sounds like

01:06:40   things are happening when you press keys but it's also not crackling like like some some

01:06:46   like snap crackle and pop with rice krispies when you which the second generation keyboard

01:06:51   like it was this crazy sound like the third generation was better there. The Ingress stuff

01:06:56   is better but it's not perfect like they made they made advances so they're like all right

01:07:00   we're gonna we're gonna do a new one knowing what we know learning what we've learned and

01:07:04   this one's gonna be better and it's gonna move backward in some ways and forward in

01:07:07   other ways and it's gonna be a more traditional keyboard in a lot of ways because we want

01:07:11   it to be a crowd-pleaser. We want to please everybody as much as possible because it turns

01:07:15   out we made some assumptions that were wrong. I think that's one approach here which is

01:07:18   like we're gonna back up a little bit in some areas and the next keyboard we're gonna we're

01:07:23   gonna do is not going to be more extreme. It's going to be less extreme but with all

01:07:28   of our lessons learned. The other direction is honestly to keep plotting what Apple keeps

01:07:34   doing which is reducing key travel and introducing touch screens to things and that's what I

01:07:39   wrote in that Macworld article which is you know that patent about just having a whole

01:07:43   flat glass touch bar thing that is your keyboard like that is the direction Apple is going

01:07:51   now so what we have to ask ourselves is is there somebody Apple who's like whoa we went

01:07:55   too far or is that person who's like well they didn't like this keyboard because we

01:08:01   didn't go far enough and well as you said right well we can't get dust into the keyboard

01:08:10   if there's no keyboard it's just glass and maybe it's bumpy glass it's just glass now

01:08:17   I I also believe you know that what they would do is they would put in haptics and they would

01:08:24   have textures on the keys so you could feel your way around and when you press it's going

01:08:29   to give a little vibration and it's got this patent suggests maybe even a little bit of

01:08:33   physical movement to to fake it and have them be like no no no this is going to be better

01:08:37   this is gonna be way better it's going to be completely reliable because there's no

01:08:41   way dust can get under there let's do it and that is you know it's possible that they would

01:08:47   do something like that I am my wacky idea that I threw out in the macworld article last

01:08:52   year was that they once they put in like face ID cameras and stuff into laptops when they

01:08:58   gets that stuff there they can just like they can just put nothing down there and they'll

01:09:02   just look at your fingers and know what letters you're typing and just it'll be entirely a

01:09:06   camera based keyboard there's lots of there's lots of right right so so that to me that

01:09:13   is the core of this which is apple is always apple takes pride in reinventing things right

01:09:22   and sometimes and inventing things but reinventing things and and like in their core is this

01:09:27   like why do we have to do it this way this actually came up was it on liftoff last time

01:09:34   I it was in a space context it is the wherever I talked about this it's the idea that like

01:09:40   after the capsules of the of the early part of the space era for the spatial project you're

01:09:44   like we're gonna make a plane it's gonna land like a plane and go up with a rock and it's

01:09:48   gonna be totally different and had lots of issues that came out of that design and all

01:09:53   the modern things that are being designed our capsules again like they were in the 60s

01:09:57   and it's like oh yeah it turns out that there were like there were lots of advantages in

01:10:02   the old way of doing things that we hadn't really thought about and then having explored

01:10:05   this new way of doing things maybe the old ways are best as john syracuse would say as

01:10:11   well as you know a modern take on the old ways apple really doesn't like that right

01:10:16   like apple wants to be new wants to be perceived as like pushing everything forward that's

01:10:20   why the touch bar exists is like how do we use our multi-touch technology on a mac in

01:10:25   a way that you know maybe makes sense maybe doesn't and so i think that is the the real

01:10:31   question with this keyboard is which apple is going to win which apple is going to win

01:10:35   out here is that the practical side of apple it's like you know guys we didn't have these

01:10:40   problems when we just kind of went with the flow and made a really good traditional keyboard

01:10:44   and i like your idea actually mike of why don't we save the really wacky keyboard ideas

01:10:50   for uh an ios keyboard for that next generation ipad where we're going to allow you know we're

01:10:57   going to offer a a new version of a keyboard smart keyboard that's a little more like a

01:11:03   trackpad or a little more like a like a second screen something like that but you know again

01:11:10   there's the other people at apple who are like nah these people are just afraid of the

01:11:14   new let's give them an all glass keyboard and see what they they do anyway we'll see

01:11:20   we'll see all we have to do is is wait and see what apple does but it will require for

01:11:25   them it will require them to swallow if not their pride a little bit of their like corporate

01:11:31   culture of moving forward versus just continuing to push us in this direction they've been

01:11:37   heading all along which is flatter and flatter and flatter until there are no keys left i

01:11:45   am still gonna hold on to my theory all right that we're gonna we live in hope mike we live

01:11:50   in hope all right okay i think that it just shows they're talking about it and i think

01:11:54   that that's fun although i do find it that the thought kind of hilarious that they're

01:11:58   just gonna keep making it until there's no there's just no keys on the board it's just

01:12:03   a board at that point it's just bull it's a war on the war on war on buttons taken to

01:12:07   an extreme why would there be keys anymore yeah who needs keys just bored bored mark

01:12:14   german debbie woo reporting for bloomberg the apple plans to launch iphones with 3d

01:12:21   cameras as soon as next year among other things but let's start with the headline feature

01:12:26   here 3d cameras now it is worth noting that apparently the 3d cameras are a 2020 product

01:12:34   yes um there are some 2019 phone details but the kind of the headline thing here is 2020

01:12:41   iphones to get 3d cameras and i'm sure you may think to yourself oh mike 3d photos we

01:12:47   don't want to go there again no no 3d camera terrible name uh to to give i i really don't

01:12:54   think that they did a good job of explaining what a 3d like the idea like calling it 3d

01:12:59   camera um what it is this is for ar so if you imagine uh the camera scanning your environment

01:13:08   and helping you place things so it gives you a good range rather than what it's doing right

01:13:12   now which is i think mostly using software with ar kit and machine learning to kind of

01:13:17   understand the environment that you're in imagine the technology that's scanning your

01:13:22   face for face id scanning the room instead so face id has a a kind of like a that that

01:13:30   that uses the ir blaster to map your depth and the features of your face this works up

01:13:35   to 50 centimeters but this new 3d camera which would be on the back of the of the 2020 iphones

01:13:42   would have a 15 feet range using laser scanning technology according to bloomberg to scan

01:13:47   your environment so i don't know why anyone will particularly want this i don't think

01:13:54   that ar has gone the length that apple wanted it yet but maybe this would help i think it's

01:13:58   ar accuracy is what they're going for here the idea that that once you can you've got

01:14:02   the power the processor power and you've got the sensor detail you you can start you know

01:14:07   really augmenting that space because you know exactly where the carpet is and where the

01:14:12   table is and where the person is and where you know the and they're turned towards you

01:14:17   or away from you and you can overlay information on all of that and that that to do that in

01:14:22   a way that is real you need accuracy and they're they've decided because i imagine google is

01:14:28   looking at a lot of this and thinking we can just use machine learning to interpret what

01:14:32   we're seeing and apple saying well we can use our hardware skill to get much better

01:14:38   data ultimately probably to put this in a pair of glasses or something right but they're

01:14:42   not there yet so they're also going to put it in in phones where you can hold it up and

01:14:46   and and see what's going on and ipads too because the rumor is this might actually come

01:14:50   to the ipad before it comes to the iphone in 2020 but that yeah i think that's what

01:14:56   they're going for here is that they're not their their goal is not to necessarily do

01:14:59   3d photos although i'm sure that they would take that detail in terms of portrait mode

01:15:06   and things like that that extra detail but it's an interesting idea this is far off but

01:15:10   obviously apple plans hardware far off so you know looking at ways of getting better

01:15:18   depth information and being able to use that for ar which tim cook has said repeatedly

01:15:22   apple thinks is a big future direction i think ar is a curiosity right now but i think apple

01:15:27   is just investing a lot in it because they think that ultimately there will be a payoff

01:15:31   and it will probably be something like glasses more than it will be like like just in holding

01:15:37   our phones up but it's it's early days yet so i think it's an interesting idea that that

01:15:42   they believe in this enough that they're they're working on this 3d camera stuff for 2020 again

01:15:48   for 2020 this is this is the i was excited last week that the 2019 iphone rumors season

01:15:54   is open i guess i'm excited this week because i guess the 2020 iphone rumor season is now

01:15:59   open too i don't know about the ipad thing that seems strange to me like that it would

01:16:04   come that anything would come to the ipad first apple likes doing ar demos on the ipad

01:16:08   because it's got the big screen and there's a big screen and there's a lot of room in

01:16:12   there i don't think it's unreasonable at all that apple i don't think apple would have

01:16:15   a problem unveiling a tech a piece of tech like that in the spring of 2020 on an ipad

01:16:21   pro and then bringing it to the iphone in the fall i don't i don't believe that apple

01:16:25   would be like oh no no it must debut on the iphone i i think it actually would be uh maybe

01:16:30   kind of even makes sense for the ipad because the ipad does have that big screen and they

01:16:34   and they demo those all the time right where you're playing an ar game and you're holding

01:16:37   up an ipad so apple believes that the ipad is a good ar platform too yeah the ipad pro

01:16:44   has only been released in the spring once so that's kind of one thing where i'm like

01:16:49   i don't know maybe that's when they do the device upgrade but like it's mostly in the

01:16:54   fall one time in the spring one time yeah i don't know i mean the argument here may

01:16:58   be that they feel like uh at this point they want to go from a two-year cycle for the ipad

01:17:02   pro to an 18-month cycle and so then it goes in the spring of 2020 that's i i think i i'm

01:17:09   i don't think that's unreasonable i don't expect that we need a new ipad pro this fall

01:17:13   maybe it's always been 18 maybe it's i think it's mostly been 18 months it's complicated

01:17:17   right because the big ipad pro came out in the fall and then the and then in the spring

01:17:21   they did the the little one and then it was i think 18 months after that then the following

01:17:26   june then 18 months later september like october like so yeah maybe like and then should the

01:17:32   18 months just falls into spring so maybe they do do it then um the 2020 iphones could

01:17:38   also have will if there's going to be design changes it will be then um and it may be to

01:17:43   accommodate 5g networking capabilities uh as the 2019 iphones won't have 5g and they

01:17:50   won't um they won't have design changes 5g by the way is not a thing we've covered on

01:17:55   this show yet but at some point we will um kind of like what 5g is and why we think it

01:18:02   might be a while we may yeah we may have a year and a half to talk about that yeah so

01:18:07   at some point we're going to talk about 5g i have it in my notes that we will get to

01:18:12   it at some point um but we haven't yet but we will so if there's a 2020 what's what's

01:18:18   happening in 2019 so according to the report from bloomberg there will be a new 10s and

01:18:24   10s max so i want to i actually want to say this right so follow me here there will be

01:18:28   new 10s and 10s max sized phones they say there will be new phones and then they say

01:18:33   and there will also be an update to the 10r i don't know what that means but they did

01:18:38   separate those two things colors yeah it might not be hardware related we don't know right

01:18:47   right we it's entirely possible that apple is going to treat the 10r like the se then

01:18:52   again as its best-selling phone there is this question of like do you want to keep uh pushing

01:18:58   it forward do you just change the colors do you put in a new processor do you lower the

01:19:01   price what do you do with the 10r because that's something they could do is keep making

01:19:05   the 10r change the colors their margins have gone up on it and they cut the price a little

01:19:09   bit um and keep selling it as their kind of like base model essentially right well because

01:19:14   they might have to scramble because they didn't expect it was going to be the best selling

01:19:18   phone right could be could be and that's something i think they could do in the in this kind

01:19:21   of time frame in a year is what can we do to refresh the 10r uh for for um 2019 i don't

01:19:28   know but it is the idea that there's a um i i would call them iphone 11 and 11 max basically

01:19:37   yep um as uh which again is just going to be kind of uh more of the same right it's

01:19:43   this three-step process it's the the you know what was a four with six six s seven and eight

01:19:49   right where it was just sort of like the same phone not the same but like the same look

01:19:53   for four years yeah the uh 11 max is looking to introduce a third camera which also introduces

01:20:03   again to the oled phone generation a difference between the max and the regular size phone

01:20:09   all the plus club people can lord that third camera over the rest of us and it is most

01:20:13   likely that the third camera would then come in 2020 to the r and the regular or what would

01:20:19   be the 11s at that point which would then probably be the third the 3d camera system

01:20:24   would be the third camera um the new camera system in the max though would give a wider

01:20:30   field of view and enable a better zoom so a quote from the article which i think was

01:20:35   kind of fun it will also capture more pixels so apple software could for example automatically

01:20:40   repair a video or photo to fit in a subject that may have been accidentally cut off from

01:20:45   the initial shot according to people familiar with the plans and it would be a fun demo

01:20:49   right that you take some photos like oh you miss johnny and then you but you can just

01:20:53   bring johnny in because whilst you were taking a regular portrait mode photo the wide camera

01:20:58   was there the whole time so we can just crop it and there you go that's brilliant so that'd

01:21:02   be really fun it's a very happily thing to do yeah that's a lot of clever things that

01:21:06   involve um you know running the running the camera when you haven't run it uh and having

01:21:13   things on the edges that you don't see or that are can be added later in order to fix

01:21:18   you know because we're dumb and we make dumb decisions and if the the phone is smarter

01:21:23   and it's got room to spare to like always shoot video so that when you you know press

01:21:27   record you've always got the option of going back like a second or two before you press

01:21:32   record or a foot or two wider outside the frame that's all it's all very clever stuff

01:21:37   that they could do with a combination of hardware and software which is apple's thing um the

01:21:43   also live photos is looking to see an update uh the video portion will double to six seconds

01:21:49   and it's great i love live photos i'd love to see more i actually could imagine that

01:21:53   idea of being able to bring more people in could be a live photo we like thing right

01:21:58   that seems similar in that you know what live photos is doing is doing more than what you

01:22:02   expect the camera's doing when you take the picture right like it's also taking videos

01:22:06   so maybe there's some kind of like links there with what that's what's happening um of course

01:22:12   we're going to see a faster processor uh and also a better face id sensor i wonder if this

01:22:16   is going to be the actual face id too right that we were hoping for because it appeared

01:22:24   right like the after teardowns and from information that the face id sensor in the uh 10s unchanged

01:22:32   and that any differences were coming from the machine learning capabilities of the chip

01:22:37   of the system on a chip so maybe this will be some updates to the face id sensor to maybe

01:22:42   make face id better in some way apparently apple is testing usb-c for the iphone of course

01:22:48   they are but that's not going to be 2019. the report also confirms rumors we've seen

01:22:54   elsewhere of a 10-inch ipad and a new ipad mini on the way i already have a lot to say

01:22:59   about that um like i don't get the ipad mini though uh i i think when we see it we will

01:23:07   get it because i think it's going to be i think i think apple because the ipad has done

01:23:13   so well and and really defines the tablet market and i think apple made some smart decisions

01:23:18   last year with their low-cost ipad so like doing a new version of the low-cost ipad that

01:23:23   maybe has a a little bit bigger screen um doing a an ipad mini that will also be in

01:23:29   the low-cost category basically like saying here are our uh education or for kids low-cost

01:23:37   ipads we've got the pros and we've got these i think it's fine i think this is like um

01:23:41   doing an iphone se kind of thing where it's like it's good to have the the product line

01:23:45   differentiated and if they do a new ipad mini it's probably because they realize that there

01:23:50   is you know why hasn't it gone away it's because there is a market for it it's not a huge market

01:23:55   but there is a market for it and so keep it alive like why why not do that i i think it's

01:23:59   not going to be an earth-shattering product right it's this is low-end ipads but low-end

01:24:06   ipads are a thing and they do pretty well for apple you know so i think uh i i i think

01:24:12   when they put it in context you'll be like oh yeah okay like what they price it at and

01:24:15   how they describe like what its positioning is i i i'm prepared to understand what they're

01:24:21   doing there i think it's my can when i say like i don't get it it's like why did it wait

01:24:27   so long and then do it you know like that's what just seems so strange to me i mean that

01:24:32   that's like why do they wait so long for the mac mini too i think it wasn't a priority

01:24:35   and then at some point they realized okay if we're gonna we we can't put this off any

01:24:39   longer if we're gonna keep this around we need to write do an update and then even kill

01:24:43   it for another four years if we don't want to kill it we have to do something okay yeah

01:24:47   but that seems like such a i mean okay but it's like really all right but anyway anyway

01:24:52   uh there was some ios stuff that came out in this report um which i expect is just the

01:24:57   beginning of what we will see of a larger report from german later in the year as he

01:25:01   would tend to do leading up to wwc uh but before we get to that let's talk about fresh

01:25:07   books fresh books make my life so much easier because i am a person who sends invoices fresh

01:25:14   books will be able to make your life easier and save you time because they offer great

01:25:19   tools to help simplify big things in your life stuff like invoicing expense tracking

01:25:24   and having the ability to get paid online for the work that you do fresh books has drastically

01:25:29   reduced the time it takes for their over 10 million customers to deal with their paperwork

01:25:34   freelancers small businesses self-employed people if you ever send invoices you should

01:25:41   be trying out fresh books their tools are so simple to use i am barreling up jason on

01:25:47   my 2000th invoice sent in fresh books over the near five-year history of our company

01:25:54   i think i would have lost my mind if i was trying to do all of those in pages or something

01:25:57   uh we i i've sent i'd done that previously with some other stuff and hated it and as

01:26:03   soon as we set up a company we signed up for fresh books immediately and it's one of the

01:26:07   best decisions that our business has ever made fresh books makes it super simple to

01:26:11   send out invoices and to keep track of them uh fresh books can automatically send out

01:26:15   late payment email reminders for you if you don't if you don't want to have to waste time

01:26:20   chasing uh invoices and payments but also every time you log into fresh books you can

01:26:25   see what's changed since the last time you were there so you can take note of something

01:26:30   that's delayed or you can take note of a payment that's come in even fresh books has a ton

01:26:34   of integrations with other services which is amazing i absolutely love fresh books they

01:26:39   are offering an unrestricted 30-day free trial for listeners of this show with no credit

01:26:43   card required all you have to do is go to freshbooks.com/upgrade and enter upgrade in

01:26:49   the how did you hear about us section and you can get your hands on that 30-day free

01:26:54   trial if you're listening to the show and you haven't yet tried fresh books now is the

01:26:58   time to try it out our thanks to fresh books for their support of this show and relay fm

01:27:06   so shall we uh should we talk about ios 13 stuff here so yeah dark mode and improvements

01:27:13   to carplay is what we'll see on the iphone and across everything all right so dark mode

01:27:18   sounds great i've wanted a dark mode for a long time yeah that i think we knew this was

01:27:23   coming when they added it to the mac right like why would you not put that on your other

01:27:27   devices and that means that app developers will be able to you know sense which mode

01:27:31   it's in and all of that and that'll be nice uh improvements to carplay i don't really

01:27:36   i never use carplay but like improvements to that system would be great because it seems

01:27:40   like maybe it's getting long in the tooth now i don't recall apple making a big song

01:27:44   and dance for carplay in quite some time so yeah you know again i don't think either of

01:27:50   us are well versed enough in carplay to say much about it but like great no i have another

01:27:56   rental car with carplay in it two weeks ago that was exciting and uh yeah it it's still

01:28:01   carplay new ipad home screen now this is something i'm very excited for the thought of this just

01:28:08   just something to break up that grid of icons right like you know and i'm sure we're gonna

01:28:12   spend a lot of time over the next few months as we lead up to wwc thinking about what this

01:28:17   is going to look like and i mean hopefully maybe who knows some more details might come

01:28:22   out but uh that is something that definitely needs some work um and i will be very excited

01:28:28   to see what that could look like you know my hope would be and you know shortcuts and

01:28:33   uh widgets and files and everything all living there like this big mix between what ios and

01:28:40   the mac can give you from a desktop would be super fun something i'm really struggling

01:28:45   to get my head around is the ability to tab through multiple versions of a single app

01:28:49   like pages in a web browser i don't really get the i the idea of the tabbed interface

01:28:57   anyway um i don't really i can't conceive much of what this is going to give me other

01:29:02   than multiple instances of like google sheets which would be great but like i feel like

01:29:06   i haven't fully got my head around what this could mean yeah i feel like this might be

01:29:11   their new take on multitasking which is that you have uh you can have multiple items in

01:29:18   tabs and then you can have um tabs in a couple different configurations that's my guess so

01:29:25   you can have like you can have um you know three or four apps together in ta in a tab

01:29:30   set and tab between them you know to to move between different apps that are all up together

01:29:35   but you could also like pull out a tab and put it next and then you've got uh split view

01:29:40   um and that you could do that potentially with multiple instances of an app so that

01:29:47   you could have uh you know a text editor up with a couple of different documents and different

01:29:51   tabs or put them side by side and it's the same app um it's all in the details there

01:29:56   have been so many different ways that you could implement this but that that's kind

01:29:59   of my question is um are they going to do tabs and multitasking or is tab the multitasking

01:30:08   where you have instead of having sort of like two app windows like we have now you instead

01:30:13   have two tabs side by side which would allow them to build into that kind of like chrome

01:30:18   that application chrome i guess it wouldn't be browser chrome the ability to indicate

01:30:22   which one is at the at the front right like all these other issues that we have with the

01:30:26   current ipad multitasking so it may be that which is they've decided to what's the metaphor

01:30:32   we can use that probably they'll extend to the mac at some point too that is uh you know

01:30:38   multiple instances of an app so basically multiple windows as well as uh quick switching

01:30:43   between different apps that you're using and then the ability to have them on the sheer

01:30:47   sheer space on a screen whether that's you know a two up or whether you even have the

01:30:52   ability to you know put three tabs at once or you know a tall tab and two wide tabs on

01:30:57   a on a landscape display or something like that lots of different questions here about

01:31:01   this um tab metaphor stuff but it may be that they just decided like the tab metaphor everybody

01:31:06   gets it everybody loves it and uh we could use that as the metaphor for having different

01:31:11   instances of apps and having apps running together i don't know improvements to file

01:31:16   management as well tantalizing isn't it tantalizing idea improvements to file management continues

01:31:22   to frustrate me greatly every day so i would love some improvements i i use it and i am

01:31:27   amazed at um i have that moment when i use the files app where i'm like it is amazing

01:31:31   that i can finally do this on the ipad and then i have that moment where i step back

01:31:35   again and i think but this is like uh you know a very small cup of water to somebody

01:31:40   who's dying of thirst in the desert like it is way too little for what it should be better

01:31:47   you know it's better than what it was but still i have those moments where i'm like

01:31:50   oh i've got a file somewhere how do i get it here and it's like you know i'll launch

01:31:55   this app and then i go to files and i navigate here and it's just you know it's it's uh it's

01:32:01   better but it needs to be way better and this also encompasses all the other things we talked

01:32:05   about in terms of external storage devices and network storage devices and you know other

01:32:10   stuff like that is just not good enough yet that they're they're down the path but they

01:32:15   need to get way further down so improvements to file management could mean anything but

01:32:20   i'm gonna choose to be optimistic that it means everything for now because it's January

01:32:24   or February it's in June i'll be much more cynical about it but in in winter i will still

01:32:32   dream of a summer with with good file management on iOS.

01:32:36   Should we do some hashtag ask upgrade questions?

01:32:40   Let's do it.

01:32:41   Nepali says HomePod annoys me when i'm using Siri on my phone and HomePod kind of jumps

01:32:48   into request instead of saying ahoy telephone i think it should be like ahoy HomePod to

01:32:53   avoid confusion do you agree?

01:32:57   I think maybe it should be an option because i have this happen too.

01:33:02   I would love the option.

01:33:03   But i know why Apple's doing it this way is Apple is trying to build a system where all

01:33:07   your devices have the same trigger and then based on the context it's choosing the right

01:33:11   device to execute your command and i have to say i've been using it the last few months

01:33:16   and have felt like after initially this not being the case that in my house when i shout

01:33:22   out of command to the HomePod i see my watch fire i see my phone turn like light up every

01:33:29   device lights up in this house and then and then the HomePod answers when i'm talking

01:33:35   to the HomePod and that has in the last couple of months that has worked really reliably

01:33:43   and i don't know what they're doing exactly but they're trying to do what Apple's goal

01:33:47   is they want the lady to be you know the or the British gentleman the assistant to be

01:33:54   everywhere and available from every device and they don't want you to think about the

01:33:58   context they don't want you to have to talk to a specific device for a specific context

01:34:02   they want you to say it in the air and the right device will tell you what to do based

01:34:06   on your body position and where your wrist is and where your phone is laying down and

01:34:11   if it's been used recently and and how you're talking to the HomePod and all of those things

01:34:16   get integrated together it does some very quick judgments about who you're talking to

01:34:22   and then that device picks it up i think that is the right goal for Apple i think it should

01:34:26   be that i think that they need to keep working on it but i think that ultimately you should

01:34:30   just talk to the assistant in the air and it should figure out what it needs to do like

01:34:35   to the point where if i if if the iPhone says oh you want to play music but i'm laying down

01:34:40   and i'm charging and i think maybe it's doing this already it's like you probably don't

01:34:44   want me to play the music right there's a HomePod in this room you're almost certainly

01:34:47   talking to the HomePod right it should be smart enough to do that that said i do think

01:34:53   that putting power in the user's hands to say you know what i just want to address the

01:34:59   HomePod separately from my phone and i want to change the trigger word to be different

01:35:04   like you should be able to do that you should you should because i have a thing sometimes

01:35:09   where it's like i have like a shortcut and i want to run and i know the HomePod is going

01:35:13   to jump in and it's not going to work right or like i have a question i want to ask or

01:35:17   a thing i want to do and the HomePod is going to say you have to do that on your iPhone

01:35:20   it's like well i knew that but i can't right right like i know this right i know this it

01:35:26   should be smart enough to know oh this command isn't for me let's try it out on the iPhone

01:35:30   right and it doesn't always do that i like it's a good goal and maybe they'll get there

01:35:36   eventually but in the meantime yes i think you should be able to just talk to the HomePod

01:35:43   and and say maybe even in addition to maybe it's a maybe it's a specific wake word that

01:35:49   you can demand the HomePod to process instead while it'll also listen to your ahoy telephones

01:35:56   i don't know but i just i feel like being a good friendly device for the human beings

01:36:01   who use it will it would be a nice feature for Apple to add.

01:36:05   So last week Apple and American Airlines announced that you'll be able to listen to Apple Music

01:36:10   for free without paying for their wi-fi when you're in the air so Doug asks do you think

01:36:14   American Airlines will also allow free streaming of Apple's video service?

01:36:19   Absolutely yes because the the the catalog of video is much smaller than the catalog

01:36:25   of music so they can pre-load all of those onto the onto the planes.

01:36:29   Yeah and and the video service is more tantalizing for when you're on a plane than music right

01:36:35   you want video video is what you want so like Apple becomes the in-flight entertainment

01:36:40   for American Airlines that's like you want that because a lot of you see Netflix on a

01:36:45   lot of these too right like i've seen this like you get on i think maybe British Airways

01:36:50   do this like you can just watch Netflix i know i've seen it i've seen or maybe it's

01:36:55   Virgin i've seen this on a on a airline that i've used where like we have wi-fi but you

01:37:00   don't have to pay for the wi-fi if you have a Netflix account to just watch Netflix which

01:37:04   is brilliant right rather than having to just then you have a screen you know is going to

01:37:09   be good right and it's not you know so you could just watch your content would be awesome.

01:37:13   Chris asks do either of you use Apple Pay Cash? I've been hesitant to link my bank account

01:37:18   to it or find another way to fund it and i don't tend to do peer-to-peer payments but

01:37:22   i like the idea of using it as i would cash now i can't because i still it's still not

01:37:27   available here which is still a surprise remains a surprise to me but do you use Apple Pay

01:37:31   Cash?

01:37:32   Steve - Occasionally i haven't used it in a little while it's mostly when i'm around

01:37:35   a bunch of other nerds and like at your bachelor party right where i was sending to people

01:37:40   because it was like super easy to do all i had to do was link it to my debit card at

01:37:45   that point i can move cash on and off of my bank account through the debit card interface

01:37:50   and i find it convenient i wish more people had it but i mean that is um when i'm in a

01:37:56   context when i can use it i love it because i don't it's another way i don't need to use

01:38:01   cash and it's like easier than saying i'm gonna send you a PayPal or something like

01:38:05   that

01:38:06   Chris - Yeah because you don't even need to open an app right you just do it in text messages

01:38:08   which is even which is brilliant right?

01:38:10   Steve - Yeah so it's like Casey List i need to send Casey List 48 dollars and there it

01:38:14   is and it's gone and he's got the money and he can do with it as he pleases and that's

01:38:17   nice i wish you know this is one of those things where it's just like Apple Pay adoption

01:38:22   has gone fairly well in the US because they added that latest round of stores you know

01:38:27   Taco Bell and Target and things like that but it's nothing like it is in the UK and

01:38:32   i would really like it to be something i could i could count on here and then you've got

01:38:36   the Apple Pay cash thing which is like that would be great too but you know it's just

01:38:41   it it is not it's it's a slow it's a slow pickup i think for people so i'm glad it's

01:38:46   there but you know i so i do use it occasionally but only very occasionally

01:38:50   Chris - And finally today Will asks since i got a Kindle Amazon has been trying to sell

01:38:55   me accessories for the Kindle most often the top recommendation from them is a case Jason

01:39:00   do you use any Kindle accessories and if so what would you recommend?

01:39:04   Steve - I um so i have tended to not use a Kindle with a case especially because so many

01:39:12   of the Kindles now are small and light like i've got the second generation Oasis the first

01:39:16   generation Oasis comes with a case so i used it and it was nice because you know it turns

01:39:20   on when you open it and closes when you close it it turns back off and the first generation

01:39:26   Oasis you could actually pull the case off and it's like a battery case and then it was

01:39:30   super thin and light the second generation Oasis doesn't come with a case it's bigger

01:39:34   it's a little bit heavier but it's still thin and light i um i used a slip case for a long

01:39:39   time so when i traveled i would have basically like an iPod sock but for Kindles like neoprene

01:39:44   case that i'd slide the the Kindle into so it wouldn't get beaten up while i was traveling

01:39:48   but i'd just pull it out and read it without a case um i just bought though like three

01:39:54   weeks ago i bought a Kindle Oasis case i think the Amazon Kindle Oasis case which is basically

01:40:00   you snap it into a little plastic shell and it's got a cover on it and um i did that because

01:40:08   my current uh slip case for the Oasis i don't really like it um and i saw the value of maybe

01:40:16   having something that would be really easy to take out of my bag and just flip open the

01:40:20   cover and read it um and then flip it closed and put it back in the bag so i did buy one

01:40:25   and i like it but not enough to keep it on the Kindle most of the time so when i'm at

01:40:30   home i don't use that case i tried it for a while and it's like it makes everything

01:40:33   thicker makes it more awkward to hold i prefer just the uh naked robotic core but uh when

01:40:41   i'm traveling i'll put that case on it so and that's the standard i think it's the Amazon

01:40:45   standard case for the Kindle Oasis so it depends on how you use it if it never leaves home

01:40:49   i don't see why you need a case on it but for travel i would recommend at the very least

01:40:52   some sort of slip case if not a full-on cover for travel so it doesn't get beaten up i want

01:40:59   to recommend pop sockets for Kindles i use pop sockets a lot and love them i use one

01:41:06   on my iphone it's the pop socket is that little little disc that you can pull out and hold

01:41:10   on to right it's got the little like steps that it goes with next you pull it out push

01:41:14   it back in you probably have seen these maybe didn't know what they were uh go to pop sockets

01:41:19   website it'll be in the show notes you can see what they are and you'll be like oh i've

01:41:22   seen those everywhere and now you know what they are this is how i was when i discovered

01:41:25   pop sockets like i feel like i've seen those everywhere i didn't know what they were um

01:41:30   i got a Kindle to to read a book for cortex a while ago and i found i found the Kindle

01:41:40   whilst super thin super light to just not be light enough for one hand like it was it

01:41:46   was so close but like just ah it was just wasn't light enough pop socket like perfectly

01:41:52   solves this for me because it just gives you a better way to hold it you're holding it

01:41:55   like in the middle right like you're just putting it on your hand and you don't really

01:41:59   like grip it you just kind of rest it and it's secure so that is what i recommend that

01:42:04   i put a pop socket on my Kindle and i'm very happy with it so that is what i will recommend

01:42:08   to people to try so pop sockets they're brilliant if you would like to send in a question to

01:42:15   help close out an episode of upgrade all you have to do is send out a tweet with the hashtag

01:42:20   ask upgrade to do that and you and it will be so that may be selected for a future episode

01:42:25   of this show please keep sending them in i have a great backlog of questions here so

01:42:29   we're a little bit behind Jason but we're going to get to him we just have so much good

01:42:32   stuff to talk about i know i know we'll have to do a special expanded ask upgrade at some

01:42:37   points yeah we're gonna have to because i've got some great ones building up hopefully

01:42:41   no news will happen in the next week yeah there'll be nothing nothing will go on mark

01:42:45   german is gonna go on vacation and sit on a beach somewhere and not write about rumors

01:42:50   and apple's not going to announce anything and we're already already through the earnings

01:42:54   and like literally nothing is going to happen in the next week and then we can do our ask

01:42:58   upgrade uh special episode and then maybe tech companies will stop doing terrible things

01:43:03   and then like maybe we can maybe it seems unlikely though check in next week and find

01:43:08   out if you want to find the show notes for this week's episode they should hopefully

01:43:12   be in your podcast app of choice but if they're not there there's always a place you can go

01:43:16   go to relay.fm upgrade slash 231 and you can get those you can go to sixcolors.com for

01:43:23   jason's work you can go to incomparable.com as well for many wonderful shows about lovely

01:43:28   pop culture all the great shows all the great shows some of the great shows also exist at

01:43:32   relay.fm slash shows where you can find stuff that both me and jason do hey follow me on

01:43:37   instagram i am imike i m y k e on instagram i'm also on twitter as well so it's jason

01:43:43   he's at jason l j s n e double l we'll be back next time thanks so much to our sponsors

01:43:49   freshbooks hero and smile say goodbye jason snell goodbye everybody

01:43:53   you

01:43:53   you

01:43:54   you

01:43:54   you

01:43:55   you

01:43:55   you

01:43:56   you

01:43:56   [MUSIC PLAYING]

01:44:00   [BLANK_AUDIO]