227: Twenty Nine TeeVee


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:08   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 227. Today's episode is brought to you by FreshBooks,

00:00:16   Holo, and Luna Display. I am very excited that we were back to normal. My name is Myke Hurley,

00:00:21   I am joined by Jason Snow. Hi, Jason Snow, happy new year. I like-- happy new year. I like the-- the

00:00:27   usual upgrade theme. I like the special themes too, but it's nice to have the regular upgrade

00:00:33   theme back and back to a regular show. Segmented beautifully episode that we have for you today.

00:00:39   That's right, there's no-- there's no awards being handed out, no ghosts will visit,

00:00:43   probably. It's all for the best. So we do have some follow-up actually about our special episodes,

00:00:48   which we'll get to in a moment, but we must institute regular format rules here. So we have

00:00:54   a hashtag Snow Talk question that comes from Steve. Steve wants to know, "Jason, what is your

00:00:58   favorite taco?" Taco. They are-- I didn't think about the fact that this is a word I cannot say,

00:01:04   but what is your favorite-- Say it again.

00:01:06   Taco? Taco. Taco. There's no good way for me to say it because if I say it-- Taco. It's like--

00:01:13   it's like talk-o. Yeah, but the thing is, if I say it like a British person, it sounds ridiculous.

00:01:18   If I say it like an American, I sound ridiculous too. Would you like a taco? Taco. Taco.

00:01:24   No, it's taco. Taco. I-- well, this is a-- this is an interesting question. I-- congratulations,

00:01:32   Steve. I don't know if I have a favorite taco. I like-- I grew up with the most,

00:01:38   as is typical of the stuff made by my mom, the most midwestern of Mexican food, which is a hard shell

00:01:47   with ground beef and a little bit of quote-unquote Mexican sauce in it with some like cheese

00:01:53   and lettuce on top. And you know what? That is comfort food. I still like that, and we have that

00:01:59   occasionally here at home. But we also have soft tacos a lot. I don't love corn tortillas. I prefer

00:02:06   flour tortillas. I know that that's-- that's heresy, but it's just the way it is. I prefer

00:02:10   the flavor of flour to corn. Yeah, that's it. It's about the flavor. I don't love the corn

00:02:16   tortilla flavor in a soft taco. The hard tacos are-- are corn too, but it's different there.

00:02:22   And there's a place in Mill Valley called Joe's Taco Lounge that is good, and they make these

00:02:30   shrimp tacos that are little fried shrimps. So they're like little prawn, little breaded shrimps,

00:02:36   and they're really-- it's really good. So I think I might say that.

00:02:40   Is that the place you took me to? Joe's Taco Lounge-- no, no, you went to the fancy-- we took

00:02:45   you to the fancy Mexican restaurant that we never go to because it's too expensive. No, Joe's Taco

00:02:50   Lounge is a dive. It's great, but it's a dive. So yeah, that-- that's-- I'm going to say that--

00:02:56   I'm going to say the shrimp-- shrimp tacos from Joe's Taco Lounge, but, you know, honestly,

00:03:01   all tacos are my favorite. That's my answer. All tacos are my favorite. I love all tacos.

00:03:07   I am a native Californian. If you'd like to send in a question to open a future episode of Upgrade,

00:03:13   just send in a tweet with the hashtag #snowtalk, and you may be picked. Thank you to Steve for

00:03:17   Steve's submission today. We get to follow up. So the holiday special was great. We were really

00:03:23   pleased with how it came out. People seemed to really enjoy it, which was awesome, but I wanted

00:03:26   to direct people to a YouTube video created by H.M. Boutet, who is responsible for Cortex Animated.

00:03:33   He does some animations for Cortex. They did an incredible animation of the introduction of the

00:03:40   episode. It is well worth your one minute and 18 seconds to watch. I agree. I was very impressed.

00:03:47   I did have that moment where I looked at it and said, "I look nothing like the animated Jason in

00:03:51   this." And then I looked at the animated mic, which is the same animated mic from Cortex Animated,

00:03:55   and I said, "But Myke looks nothing like the animated Myke either, so it's fair."

00:03:59   Actually, Steven Hackett looked the most like his animation of all three of us,

00:04:03   and he was in a doorknob. So the way that I understand it is that this individual,

00:04:08   they kind of create their own versions. So like, yeah, they're very, they're a very talented

00:04:13   individual, but they basically create versions of us based upon how we sound as opposed to how

00:04:18   we look, but with influences. It's a style, and I love it, and this video is amazing.

00:04:22   Yeah, that's really what I was getting at. I had that moment of like, "Wow, I don't look like this."

00:04:26   And then I looked at Myke, which I've seen in countless Cortex Animated videos before,

00:04:30   and said, "Oh yeah, Myke doesn't look like that either. It's fine. These are characters in an

00:04:33   animated thing." And it was really cool. I've never had anything like that for anything that

00:04:38   I've done before, so that was awesome. Also, I wanted to just recommend again,

00:04:42   in case people didn't go to upgradeys.com, because there were spoilers if you hadn't listened,

00:04:48   if you hadn't listened to the episode and then gone to the site. I'm very proud of this project

00:04:53   that me and Zach worked on, and I think it's worth going, checking out. We have all of the

00:04:59   answers for every winner, every runner-up of every upgradey in all time is now on this website,

00:05:06   and it will be continued to be updated in the future. So that is a resource that is there for

00:05:11   you in case you were wondering, "Who did win Best Mac App in 2015 as the upgradeys?" Well,

00:05:17   you will now know, because it's there for you at upgradeys.com.

00:05:20   And if they find any errors, who do they email? Do they email you,

00:05:23   they tweet at Upgrade FM, what happens? Just let me know. Just somehow let me know,

00:05:28   and we'll get it taken care of. Because we had to compile from all the history this year, so yeah.

00:05:34   It was a tricky thing, but yeah, if anybody does have any things that don't look right,

00:05:38   just let me know and we'll get them fixed. And whilst we're mentioning the upgradeys,

00:05:43   the upgradey award winner for the best movie of the year was Spider-Man Into the Spider-Verse,

00:05:48   which I saw yesterday. I told you just to trust me on this one.

00:05:52   Yeah, you were right, Jason Snell. Oh my god. Oh my god. No spoilers, I'm not going to talk

00:05:58   about the movie, but I loved it. It was my favorite movie of the year, even though I saw it in 2019,

00:06:03   but whatever, it's a 2018 movie. I can't believe how good that movie is, Jason.

00:06:08   It is unfathomable how good it actually is. It is. I feel like I have to, once again,

00:06:13   explain to people, because I was deeply skeptical, and I love Spider-Man, it's one of my favorites,

00:06:17   I was deeply skeptical when they announced this, but it is the best animated movie of 2018. It is

00:06:24   maybe the best Spider-Man movie ever. It is one of the best superhero movies ever made.

00:06:29   It is all of these things. It is a really great movie. In fact, if you don't usually watch

00:06:34   animated stuff, or maybe you say, "Well, I might watch the Pixars," but that's it, you should watch

00:06:41   this, because this is going to beat out the Pixars for the Oscar for best animated feature, and

00:06:47   deservedly so. It is an astounding achievement, and also a crowd-pleaser. So it looks great. It's

00:06:55   got a great story. So I know you're skeptical, but if you get a chance to see Spider-Man into

00:06:59   the Spider-Verse in theaters especially, do so. I'm glad you liked it.

00:07:04   I absolutely adored it. I cannot wait to see it again. I hope it's not too long before it comes

00:07:09   out on video. I also wanted to give a shout-out, some follow-out, Jason, to MacPowerUsers464,

00:07:18   because I am very proud of my co-founder, Steven Hackett, as he has taken the reins from Katie

00:07:22   Floyd, who decided that she wanted to move on to different projects, and Steven has taken the reins

00:07:29   at request of the host of the show. They wanted Steven to take over, and he did his first episode

00:07:35   yesterday, and it's really, really good. I miss Katie already, but I'm also really happy that

00:07:40   Steven's taken over the role, because I think he's perfect for it, and the episode's really good,

00:07:44   and you should go listen to it. All right. See, I thought you were going to say you should

00:07:47   listen to MPU-462, which has got a really great guest, who is me. But no, it's Steven's at first

00:07:54   episode. I guess that's important in the great history of MacPowerUsers, but there's a new co-host.

00:07:58   Yeah, whatever. You're very important, too, Jason. I'll make sure to put your link in the show notes

00:08:03   also. In the great annals of MPU history. They had to come up with a new name, because it's my

00:08:09   third time, so they can't even call it Jason Snell Returns anymore. I think there's something

00:08:13   about the Snell Zone in there. Yep, Return to the Snell Zone, which I loved when I saw that episode.

00:08:18   I blame you. Oh, I was so excited. It's great. Anyway, congratulations, Steven. Steven's now in

00:08:26   the Spark Zone. So, Jason, we made a promise in our Upgrades episode that we were going to talk about

00:08:32   the upcoming new keyboard from Bridge, the new iPad Pro keyboard, because you got a world exclusive,

00:08:41   hands-on. I did. I did. I realized I should probably have put, like, an all capital letters

00:08:46   exclusive, and I didn't. I didn't do that. Can you explain to me how this happened? Because there is

00:08:51   a kind of fun story about this exact model. Well, they contacted me and said, "We're going to be

00:08:58   showing it at CES, which is this week, but our CEO, you know, we have a test unit. It's not a

00:09:06   final production run, but we have a test unit, and we can send it to you over the holidays, which is

00:09:11   not the most ideal time, but we can let you have it for a week, and you could be the first one to

00:09:16   write about it, and then, you know, we'll let some people get their hands on it at CES." And I said,

00:09:22   "Sure. Like, yeah, I'm not going to turn down an exclusive." You had a lot of pressure not to break

00:09:26   it, right? Well, I didn't, you know, I was actually really concerned because the FedEx guy didn't come

00:09:32   until late in the afternoon on the day that I was sending it back to them, which was the day we

00:09:35   agreed I would send it back, so they got it back in time and all of that, and I started to get a

00:09:39   little nervous, like, "Oh, no, what if I ruin their CES plans by not having, by the FedEx guy not

00:09:45   coming, and then the FedEx guy came?" It was fine. But yeah, so I got my hands on it. I got the

00:09:49   Bridge 12.9 Pro, which is their new version of their keyboard for the iPad Pros from 2018,

00:09:56   and I got to spend, I did spend a week with it, and then I had to take it and put it in box and

00:10:02   send it back and go back to my other keyboards, and that made me sad. Yeah, so tell me why did it

00:10:07   make you sad? Like, what was your overall kind of impression about this new model? The bottom line

00:10:14   is that it is, this was already my favorite keyboard for the iPad Pro for the last generation.

00:10:19   They had a bunch of production issues with their first-generation version. They did a second

00:10:23   generation version of the old model that changed the keyboard slightly. It's still a good keyboard.

00:10:29   It's still better than the keyboards that Apple ships. They're, you know, they move, they're

00:10:33   clicky. I guess they're less stable, so if key stability is your number one thing, but they're

00:10:40   good. It's a good keyboard. I recommend it to people. That second gen seems to have been reliable.

00:10:45   Everybody who I know who's picked one up has been happy with it. You know, this is that keyboard

00:10:50   where it's got little, it's like, it turns your iPad into a laptop temporarily. You slide it into

00:10:55   these two little clips, and at that point, you've got your iPad as the screen, and the keyboard deck

00:11:00   is the Bridge keyboard, and they're connected, and you can, you know, put it at any angle and put it

00:11:05   in your lap, and it's like you're using a laptop. But the great thing, of course, is you're using

00:11:10   an iPad, and the moment you don't want to use it as a laptop anymore, you just pull it off,

00:11:14   and it's an iPad again. That's always the question we get, right, is, "Why won't you just use a

00:11:20   laptop?" And the answer is, "Well, I can't pull the screen off my MacBook and have it work."

00:11:24   I really like that argument, by the way. You have given a very nice succinct argument,

00:11:28   like, to that point now, which is just simply like, "Well, can you rip the screen off?"

00:11:34   Yeah, right. I mean, it's like, I will agree. If you spend all of your time with a Bridge keyboard,

00:11:40   then there is at least a little more relevant question about why wouldn't you just use a

00:11:45   MacBook. The answer is probably that you prefer iOS at that point. But for me, the reason I love

00:11:52   using my iPad Pro is because I can use it as a laptop when I want and as a tablet when I want,

00:11:58   because it's truly convertible, and Apple doesn't make a convertible laptop. That's not what they,

00:12:02   that they don't do that. So the Bridge keyboard does this for me for the iPad. They also have

00:12:08   them for like the Surface and for the, I think they're doing one for the Pixelbook.

00:12:12   And the big question with the iPad Pro 2018 was the clips. The bezels, the clips go on the corners

00:12:19   at the bezels, and of course, the bezels are much smaller on the new iPad. So there was a question

00:12:24   like, "Are they going to be able to make this work?" And in my week with it, the answer is yes.

00:12:27   These clips, which are kind of rubber padded so they don't harm the iPad, and they hold it in

00:12:34   place, and it seems very solid, and I can tilt it and put it in and take it out and all of these

00:12:42   things, and it just worked fine. I wrote this thing and posted it on Twitter, and I had a bunch

00:12:48   of people asking, and a lot of them were very concerned about like, "Will this scratch my iPad?

00:12:51   Will it break my iPad? Will it do weird things to my iPad screen?" And I don't see any of that.

00:12:57   Just as I didn't see it with the last model. It works like the old model does. There's a little

00:13:03   more precision maybe required to slide it into the clips, but I actually don't think there's that

00:13:08   much more precision because you always want to be precise sliding this thing in. It takes a couple of

00:13:14   tries before you figure out the right approach for it, because what you want to do is get it lined up

00:13:19   perfectly anyway so that when you close it, it just is like a laptop. And if you do it haphazardly,

00:13:25   you'll get it where the top is shifted off a little bit from the bottom, which is not great.

00:13:29   So you have to learn the right way to make it all fit together. But a couple attempts of that,

00:13:37   and then you figure it out. So day one, I figured out this is my approach to get it in there,

00:13:43   and then it's just kind of second nature after that. And then at that point, yeah, I took this

00:13:47   to the local cafe to write some of my columns, and I'm carrying a laptop in my hands essentially,

00:13:54   and it's designed to match the style. That was the challenge for them, because I think internally,

00:13:59   it's basically their last keyboard. The difference is that it's got those straight edges with the

00:14:06   flat edges with the curved sides at the corners. - It's physically smaller too, right?

00:14:11   - Yeah, yeah. So they're losing a lot of side space just because they lose the same size.

00:14:16   It's an exact match for the screen, and on the 12.9, the bezels all shrunk in,

00:14:22   so now the keyboard shrunk in. It's almost exactly the same size as the iPad. It's almost exactly the

00:14:28   same weight as the iPad, which means, yes, it's double the weight of the iPad alone,

00:14:33   if you have it in this case. It's still a little bit less weight than the MacBook Pro.

00:14:39   So it's actually lighter than the MacBook Pro, and of course, you can take half of that weight

00:14:43   off whenever you want. But it looks really great when it's closed, because you know that iPad looks

00:14:48   very laptop-y styling already, and then you put the keyboard on, and then it's that styling in a

00:14:56   laptop configuration, which it looks pretty nice. They actually put a little divot in down by where

00:15:02   the trackpad would be if it had a trackpad. - That's a really nice addition.

00:15:05   - Yeah, because that was one of the challenges, is how do you get your fingers around it to open

00:15:09   it up? And now there's that little divot. You just peel it open there, and it opens up into laptop

00:15:14   mode. - Let me ask you a question. I don't know if you have the answer to this, but I know

00:15:18   it's that the divot is in the exact place where the induction charger is for the pencil. I assume

00:15:22   it's pretty fiddly if you have the pencil attached and open it now, right? - Yeah, absolutely. I

00:15:30   think the nice thing about the pencil is when it's open, it's hanging out up there. When it's closed,

00:15:37   it can hang out there, and it's not a problem. When you want to open the laptop and you've got

00:15:42   the pencil attached, you should probably take the pencil off. But it's okay. You really put it in

00:15:47   your hand, open it up, and snap it back on. So there is that. But that's just sort of... I mean,

00:15:52   there's no other... Apple designed that pencil location as the surface that's not attached to

00:15:56   anything, and then you close a laptop and that's what you get. So I don't think it's a big deal.

00:16:00   - I mean, maybe they would do this in the future. They don't need to put that divot in the middle.

00:16:05   It could be on the edges or at the corners or something, right? - I suppose. - But it's not

00:16:13   the end of the world, but it's just something I know that like, "Ah, that's gonna bug me.

00:16:17   I can see it." - Yeah, if your pencil is riding with your... I don't use the pencil in laptop

00:16:22   mode, so it's not a big issue for me. But if your pencil is riding with your iPad all the time,

00:16:26   it will be... I mean, I would say you can also just open it from the sides like you do the

00:16:32   previous generation in that case. - Which is probably what I'll do. - But you're not using

00:16:35   the advantage of that little divot thing there. You may also be able to find that with the right

00:16:41   finger, kind of like with your thumb hooking under or something, you can do it and keep the pencil,

00:16:46   like a little magic trick, keeps the pencil secure as you open it. I don't know. - I will say,

00:16:50   just from a visual design perspective, like from the pictures that you've taken,

00:16:53   it looks like that the hardware, they have done a much better job at keeping up with the iPad.

00:17:00   One of the great things about this iPad is how incredible the hardware looks, and it looks like

00:17:04   Bridge have done their absolute best to match it. And I think that that is quite an achievement

00:17:09   from them. - Yeah, they did a good job. It's not shipping until what they say is early spring,

00:17:15   which is a long time. And I had a guy who said that, "Oh, that's terrible. It should be shipping

00:17:21   now." And I'm like, "Well, it's so easy to do. It's one of those things where it's like,

00:17:25   'Oh, this is very simple to do,' says the person who doesn't do it." And I talked to the CEO about

00:17:30   it and they're like, "To do this, they really did need to see it. They needed to match the materials

00:17:35   because they wanna match all the colors." And the colors changed by the way, like they wanna match

00:17:39   all the colors. Well, the color, right? They didn't the gold, is there a gold for this one? I mean,

00:17:46   no, not on the iPad Pro, right? I don't even remember. I live in a space gray world. Is it

00:17:50   just space gray and silver? Anyway, they have to match the colors. They wanna match the anodization.

00:17:54   They wanna match the edges. And somebody was like, "Well, there were leaks beforehand for cases and

00:18:00   stuff." It's like, I don't know, would I want to finalize and start building stuff on a product

00:18:05   I'd never seen? This is a very small company. There's no way they're gonna do that. And as a

00:18:10   result, we're not gonna get them until early spring. But I'd say for people who are using the

00:18:17   or have used the most recent Brydge keyboard on the other iPad, the previous iPad, this is

00:18:25   basically that except in the shape and size of this new version. Still Bluetooth because

00:18:33   the guy who was armchair quarterbacking Brydge also said, "Well, why not just use the smart

00:18:37   connector?" And the answer is, then you have to build like a little thing that climbs up to the

00:18:42   smart connector. And it's just like Bluetooth is fine. - This also has the benefit this time.

00:18:48   They said this, I mean, I know you didn't get to test this, but you can plug it in via USB-C now

00:18:52   to charge it, which is amazing, and to use it. So that addition, by the way, I'm really pleased

00:18:59   that they did that. It's 'cause now I never have to think about charging it, 'cause I'll always

00:19:04   have a USB-C cable around, and if you charge the keyboard, and I think I charge it more often than

00:19:09   you do because I use backlighting and you don't. But now I can just plug it in and keep using it

00:19:14   while it's charging, which is, that is really cool. I'm pleased that they've made that addition.

00:19:18   I can't wait to get my hands on this. And thank you to Brydge for sending it to Jason. So we got

00:19:24   to talk about it early. - Yeah, and when the final comes out, we'll check that out too. And yes,

00:19:29   I can officially say before everybody writes in, yes, silver and space gray are the only options

00:19:33   here, but Brydge does this color matching stuff. So they wanna make sure that they've got all that

00:19:39   right too. - Space gray changes.

00:19:40   Like there is no real space gray. - It's not an international standard, no. So anyway, yeah,

00:19:47   I liked it. It's good. It will become my go-to keyboard again when it ships. And in the meantime,

00:19:53   you know, I'm back to having the smart keyboard folio for some stuff and external Bluetooth or

00:20:01   USB keyboards for other situations. And I'll just, you know, I'll muddle through somehow,

00:20:07   but I'm looking forward to getting the real. - I'm gonna get both of them.

00:20:11   'Cause I wanna use the small one just when I'm traveling.

00:20:15   - I didn't get a chance to see the 11 inch model. And I imagine it's gonna be, you know,

00:20:21   it'll be better than the old 10.5 inch 'cause it'll be a little bit larger. No, it's the same

00:20:26   footprint, right? With a bigger screen. So it'll be the same as the 10.5 except with some different

00:20:32   clips and stuff, but that should be good too. That 10.5 one was a good device too. And oh,

00:20:38   by the way, cheaper than the smart keyboard folio. - Really?

00:20:41   - Not a lot. It's about $20 more expensive than the last version of these keyboards,

00:20:46   but it's also still cheaper than buying a smart keyboard folio because the smart keyboard folio

00:20:51   is really expensive. - Yeah.

00:20:52   Okay. Can't wait. Today's show is brought to you by Hullo who make insanely comfortable buckwheat

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00:21:09   I, as I was going to sleep last night, Jason, I was like moving my pillow around and I kind of like

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00:23:09   out. Thanks to hollow for their support of this show and relay FM. Time for some upstream news,

00:23:16   but upstream this week is one very big, very important topic. So CES is going on right now.

00:23:24   And CES, one of the big things, one of the big things that remains at CES is television news,

00:23:30   like actual TVs. Lots of companies have pulled out of CES over the years, right? Because they

00:23:34   want to have their own events and stuff. And lots of different types of technology are mostly

00:23:39   ignored, but CES is where the TVs get shown off. And this year, Apple is all over the news in a

00:23:47   way that I don't think we would have ever expected. There's two different things going on here.

00:23:51   The most important of these is what Samsung is doing. So Samsung announced that beginning this

00:23:58   spring, all of their 2019, 2019 TVs that go on sale, the 2019 TVs, that's an interestingly

00:24:06   difficult thing to say. Let's just say it's 29 TV. There you go. I love it. And all of their

00:24:12   2018 models will get an update to add AirPlay 2 and apps for the iTunes movies and TV store.

00:24:20   You can watch your past purchases and buy new iTunes content on your Samsung TV.

00:24:28   All of this content is integrated into the TV. You'll see in the universal search and Bixby for

00:24:34   some reason. This is wild. That's our story, people. The big news of the day, bigger than

00:24:41   any news ever, is finally iTunes is coming to Bixby. It's what we've all been waiting for the

00:24:45   day and here it is. Man. Yeah. I mean, just like who I'm pinching myself now. I cannot believe

00:24:51   iTunes is coming to Bixby at last. Wow. But the thing is, we make a joke. That sentence doesn't

00:24:57   make any sense, right? Like, oh, you'll be able to ask Bixby for your iTunes content. That's wild.

00:25:03   I mean, the idea that Samsung TVs and it's the 2019 TVs and the 2018 models with a firmware

00:25:13   update, right? So this is the platform that Samsung is using, which is what Tizen. They

00:25:19   are, they have an app, whoever, you know, they build it. I didn't realize this. I saw

00:25:24   Dieter Bohn kind of reference. It's like, hang on a second. This is a Tizen app, right?

00:25:30   Yeah. I mean, who knows? But it's, yeah. So this is fascinating because it's AirPlay 2,

00:25:38   which means that if you've got any Apple device, you can shoot basically anything over to your

00:25:42   Samsung TV. But the app thing is also interesting because that's more complex, right? Because now

00:25:48   they're having to build in something and it's this iTunes app for movies and TV. Although,

00:25:53   as we're going to talk about, very strongly hovering in the background is Apple's forthcoming

00:26:00   video service, right? Like that's like, it's yeah, it's great. You can rent a movie on iTunes on your

00:26:04   Samsung TV and also Apple's video service will play on it. So there's a quote from Eddy Cue in

00:26:10   Samsung's press release. Um, it says, "We look forward to bringing the iTunes and AirPlay 2

00:26:15   experience to even more customers around the world through Samsung smart TVs. So iPhone, iPad, and

00:26:20   Mac users have yet another way to enjoy all their favorite content on the biggest screen in their

00:26:25   home." Um, I just love that Eddy was in that press release. It just made me smile. So I thought that

00:26:30   I kind of had this news all locked down, right? It's like, okay, so some TVs are going to get all

00:26:35   of this stuff easy, easy peasy, right? But then today more stuff started happening. So Apple

00:26:41   updated the AirPlay 2 page to focus on some additional features coming soon to AirPlay 2

00:26:46   that ties in with all of this. They mentioned leading manufacturers getting AirPlay 2,

00:26:51   and then more news has come out. Vizio and LG have both announced TVs, but their TVs just have AirPlay

00:26:59   and HomeKit support. They don't have the iTunes app that Samsung has. Which, that adds some

00:27:06   complexity to all of this. Cause I thought, ah, we've got to unlock, right? Like it's exactly what

00:27:11   we thought was going to happen. Apple's going to have an app on all of these providers, smart TVs,

00:27:16   and it's going to come to Fire TV and that's how they get their content out there. And that may

00:27:20   still happen, but for some reason, maybe Samsung has some exclusivity or whatever, but it's added

00:27:26   like a wrinkle in all of this. So it's amazing to see that AirPlay 2 is getting on all of these TVs,

00:27:32   because that way it doesn't matter whether Apple has an app on them or not. You can just

00:27:36   throw the content over to the TV and you'll be able to do, you'll be able to use Siri on your phone.

00:27:41   So you'll say like, ahoy telephone, send this on my TV or whatever. Watch this on my TV.

00:27:47   Yeah, play, play, play the play Jennifer Aniston and Reese Witherspoon's TV show on my TV set. Yes.

00:27:52   And then also there's going to be what Apple calling new convenient built-in controls to

00:27:58   let you control media and the volume of the TV. It's kind of unclear, like the way that this like

00:28:03   is red, it might be new UI that appears somewhere. I took, I took that as being that it may be in a

00:28:09   lock screen or in the video, in the TV app that there'll be some controls that will also talk to

00:28:17   the, you know, the TV and let them, let them, you know, control the volume and all that. It may just

00:28:22   be a UI update to existing functionality, but it is, it is very interesting to see these two things

00:28:27   split apart. I think it's hard to tell from the outside whether this is something that is

00:28:33   contractual, something like Samsung gets a period of exclusivity. Clearly Samsung got to be first

00:28:39   out of the gate. That was part of the deal. And it might be that, I mean, maybe it's like Samsung

00:28:44   said, we'll build your app if you give us, you know, the, the first drop on this or something

00:28:49   like that. And that's because, because I was thinking about Apple in terms of like,

00:28:53   major league baseball, when I went to see their offices, you know, they have to, they, they have

00:28:58   this whole development group and they have to build the MLB app for like smart TVs and

00:29:04   PlayStations and iOS and Apple TV and Xbox, right? Like all of these platforms, they have to build

00:29:13   it and Roku, right? And Fire TV. And it is interesting to think about like, well, what's

00:29:20   Apple going to do? And like Apple could totally do that, but a different, I think, I don't know

00:29:24   enough about these boxes. Like I think there are different models. Some of the models are,

00:29:29   you write the app. Some of the models are the vendor writes the app. Sometimes it's sort of like,

00:29:34   like the old Apple TV. I get the impression that you can do like a generic thing where you're

00:29:39   basically like filling out a bunch of configuration files and there's just a generic media player app.

00:29:43   Although that doesn't sound like something Apple would want to do, but it might get them on more

00:29:47   platforms. So I'm not clear. Yeah. And there hasn't been a demo of this by the way. So like

00:29:52   Samsung's TVs, they're showing that are in CES right now for as much as I've been able to work

00:29:57   out, they are showing like a placeholder, but there is no app to actually go into yet.

00:30:02   Well, and there's a question about when this all happens and when this update happens, because

00:30:06   one possibility is that this is all being announced, but by the time it ships,

00:30:11   it will be something different, right? If the Apple TV launch happens, then this may be all

00:30:19   designed to that app may be designed to just flip over and become the Apple TV.

00:30:23   Like that actually would never be an iTunes app.

00:30:25   Yeah. Like singular never shipped on the iPhone, right? Because it was rebranded as AT&T by the

00:30:30   time that it shipped, even though it was singular when they announced it. Yeah. And so I would be

00:30:36   surprised if there aren't iTunes slash Apple TV apps on other boxes or TVs down the road,

00:30:43   but there is a question of like, can they do it? What goes into that? Like what goes into building

00:30:50   an app for Vizio or LG and can you add it after the fact or can you not, you know, and I don't

00:30:56   know. It's possible that Apple is only bothering to do this with bigger players. So like Samsung

00:31:00   will get it. Amazon will get it. You know, maybe Roku, like an actual app, everybody else you

00:31:06   Airplay. Yeah, it may be. And in the end, if, if what you're saying is, Hey, you've got one of

00:31:11   these TVs and you've got an iPhone, you start playing it and say, go to the TV. And then your

00:31:17   iPhone, uh, the Airplay 2 experience, your iPhone just looks like your iPhone. It's like, not like

00:31:21   your iPhone. It has to sit there and mirror the video playback or anything like that. You kind of

00:31:25   like send it over there and then it's gone and that's good. Like that's, that's a, you can keep

00:31:30   using your phone and it's also streaming video to your TV and it's all fine. So I think it's good.

00:31:36   I think it's a, uh, it gets Apple content on all of these TVs without people having to buy an Apple

00:31:42   TV. And that's really the big deal here. I've heard, you know, uh, there are definitely a lot

00:31:46   of people who are like, well, why is this a big deal? iTunes is on windows and all that. It's like,

00:31:50   yeah, Apple has kept the crown jewels of their video stuff locked down to playback on Apple

00:31:57   devices. And if you want to play it back on a TV, you need to use Apple TV or like an adapter out

00:32:03   of your iOS device. Right? Those are the ways that you do it. And with this, Apple is in, in the

00:32:10   prelude to launching their TV service, Apple is opening the flood gates, which is like, Nope, we

00:32:14   want Apple TV, Apple video content to be available on as many devices as possible. And you don't need

00:32:21   to buy an Apple TV box to do it. Which is, uh, something we've talked about. I feel like

00:32:27   Upgradients are very prepared for this sort of story because we've been talking about this for

00:32:31   a while now. And the idea that as with the Amazon echo story where it's like, well, what does that

00:32:38   mean for the HomePod? And the answer is, well, the HomePod will continue to be a premium hardware

00:32:42   product with high margins. That's got that Apple, uh, you know, stamp of approval for people who

00:32:48   want to buy all Apple stuff, but you can also now get Apple music on, uh, the echo. And this is like

00:32:53   the same thing, right? Which is like, I think the Apple TV is still going to exist as this high-end

00:32:58   product that is all Apple through and through, but that's not enough. Like Apple wants their

00:33:04   video stuff to be available more broadly. And it seems like they've got people out there really

00:33:08   pushing all the TV manufacturers so that all these modern TVs and presumably video box platforms too,

00:33:16   are going to be able to play Apple stuff either via AirPlay or an app, uh, because they want to

00:33:21   be everywhere. They want the video service to not just be for people who have Apple devices,

00:33:25   especially since a lot of people still want to watch TV on a TV set. And Apple, that has been a

00:33:31   huge barrier. Like even if you've got an iPhone, like I don't want to watch TV shows on my iPhone,

00:33:36   unless I'm really desperate, right? Especially if I'm at home and I've got a 65 inch TV,

00:33:41   I won't watch it up there. How do we get it there? And up to now Apple's been, well, you pay us a lot

00:33:45   of money for an Apple TV. And as of 2019, Apple is saying, Nope, we want every TV and every box that

00:33:52   we can think of. Presumably there'll be more announcements to come. I'm kind of assuming

00:33:56   that this will be true to play our video stuff because they're going to be charging people and

00:34:01   getting people to sample and then pay for their new video service. And they want that to be the

00:34:06   broadest audience possible. Yeah. I mean, we're seeing these announcements now, but like, I really

00:34:12   feel like it is a lock that it gets on fire TVs. Like that, that just feels like a lock to me

00:34:17   because of Apple Music on Echo. Yeah. I, you get, you get the sense that Apple and Amazon last year

00:34:24   came to an agreement about a lot of things. Right. Which was again, as we spoke about on this show

00:34:31   was like, it was probably, you know, they, they, they settled all family business on that day.

00:34:37   Everything was taken care of, you know, now we'll sell your products and you'll give us your music

00:34:42   and TV and we'll, and then we'll give you the app that you want for your Apple TV and like fun,

00:34:48   fun, fun. We're all good again. This is super interesting to me. I mean, I've been trying,

00:34:54   I've been like running this idea around in my head and I feel like it seems pretty clear to me

00:34:59   at this point that that the company that we know is, is changing in some very significant ways.

00:35:06   You know, like Apple is making some very big changes and like whether or not this is something

00:35:12   that you like or whether you feel it's in their best interest or not. Like at this point, it kind

00:35:17   of doesn't matter because the train has left the station. Like they have spent and are spending

00:35:23   billions of dollars on creative television shows and I totally understand a lot of people's position

00:35:29   that this is not the company that they know. I get it. It's super weird. This is why this segment

00:35:35   exists because we find it interesting but also super weird and we like to talk about it, right?

00:35:40   Like Apple is doing all this stuff, which doesn't make sense. Also, I saw a lot of people arguing

00:35:46   that they just don't think it'll be successful and they think it's a bad move and that is a

00:35:51   perfectly reasonable opinion to hold. I don't know if I agree with it but I'm not convinced

00:35:57   it's going to be successful either. I'm not sure what how this is going to go but like you said,

00:36:04   Apple has already gone down this path. I looked it up. They made their big thing where they released

00:36:10   a whole appendix to their quarterly earnings report talking about services revenue. That

00:36:15   was their blowing the horn of like watch services revenue. It's growing. That's our next big thing.

00:36:20   You know when that was? That was January of 2016. That was three years ago. Apple has been on this

00:36:29   track for three years publicly and probably for longer privately and this is just and you know the

00:36:37   the TV execs have been there for a year and a half. It'll be almost two years by the time they

00:36:42   launch this thing probably and this is Apple changing what it's doing to be more because

00:36:51   they believe that there's an opportunity here for revenue growth and they believe that in this era

00:36:58   that if you're a tech company that doesn't own a piece of this kind of content stream

00:37:04   then you lose some power and again they're looking for places where they can move the needle in terms

00:37:14   of revenue growth and you know a lot of skepticism about whether Apple can be a true Netflix or

00:37:21   Amazon Prime Video competitor or a competitor to Disney plus and I think those that skepticism is

00:37:26   valid but if you look at the bigger picture here we are entering as Tim Goodman says on the TV talk

00:37:34   machine podcast that I do with him times of confusion right where there's so many shows out

00:37:42   there and there's so many services and there are more streaming services and we're entering this

00:37:45   period where everybody is doing a streaming service and most of them will probably fail

00:37:52   because it's a gold rush right now yes but as with the iPhone right where if you are one of the

00:38:00   few left standing that has a very profitable business in five years as a video streaming

00:38:07   provider you have valuable real estate that is impossible to you know that will be worth far

00:38:15   more than what you spent on it and that's we're in the land rush territory here and Apple may not

00:38:20   make it but that's why Apple's doing this is there is a huge opportunity because if they're one of the

00:38:26   four or five if they can if they can spend a few billion dollars a year and create the next

00:38:30   HBO it doesn't even need to be the next Netflix per se but it could be or the next Hulu if Apple

00:38:37   can do that and become one of the ones that sticks that will be a profitable long-term business that

00:38:47   will provide them revenue growth over the next five years and that's what that's why they're

00:38:50   taking their shot and they've got lots of cash and when you've got hundred more than a hundred

00:38:55   billion dollars of cash you can spend a few billion dollars on a bet in an area that seems

00:39:02   like there's a chance of a big payoff if you end up being one of the services that's left standing

00:39:08   in a few years and that's what they're doing and it may not work but they've been on this path for

00:39:13   quite a while now and I think again not to toot our own horn too much but like I think Upgradians

00:39:19   have heard us talk about this I think everybody listening to this podcast knows that this has been

00:39:23   a path that they've been on so at least it has you can disagree with it but at least it hasn't taken

00:39:28   you by surprise they've been on this path for a while like this is a even if this is an absolute

00:39:33   failure this is like a three-year thing we're going to go through even if they stop because

00:39:39   they're in agreements they've got stuff and you know they've got all this stuff they're signing

00:39:43   all these shows there's multiple years of content that they've currently got signed because it takes

00:39:48   a long time to make this stuff this is going to become a thing they talk about all the time

00:39:54   and every presentation that they do every keynote is going to include something to do with this

00:40:00   there's going to be lots of celebrities coming out on stage we're going to see Steve Corral

00:40:03   he's going to come out and talk about his show right like this is a this is a new thing for them

00:40:08   like if you really didn't like when you saw a bunch of celebrities with the Apple Music thing

00:40:13   get used to it friends because it's going to happen this is this is about to become a very

00:40:18   big part of Apple's strategy and again I don't know if it's right or wrong but I my personal

00:40:25   belief is this is the thing they need to do this is the thing that they should have done a couple

00:40:30   of years ago this way right because the carpool karaoke thing the planet the apps thing was a

00:40:35   dumb idea they did it badly and they put a bad taste in everyone's mouth that is what happens

00:40:40   when when tech guys try to program content because that's what that was right like yeah it was it was

00:40:47   people from inside of Apple and some of the people from Apple Music who were not tv people but music

00:40:52   music people and they tried to make some shows they they tried to like buy in on carpool karaoke

00:40:58   but did it in the complete wrong way because it should have had James Corden if they were going to

00:41:01   do that tv show right like they messed it up so what did they do they spent a lot of money hiring

00:41:07   really credible people we don't know what these shows are going to look like right like we've

00:41:12   heard we spoke about and I've seen this Christina Warren made a really good point on twitter to us

00:41:16   about this right about like are are these are they going to have too much influence on it are

00:41:21   they going to stop any explicit content yeah maybe but that also doesn't mean it's going to fail it

00:41:26   just means it might be not what you expect the big question is uh and she's Christina's comment was

00:41:32   she's a little worried about like meddling from the tech guys like okay they hired the pros to do this

00:41:37   but what if Tim or Eddie or somebody else at Apple is like I've got notes about this is Tim

00:41:45   I have notes about the what Reese Witherspoon is doing right like what uh I think that's a problem

00:41:51   I'm not sure the uh no explicit content expensive NBC kind of stuff is necessarily the kiss of death

00:41:59   I don't think it is I really don't think it is because there are levels that you can program at

00:42:04   and you know Disney Plus is not going to be programming at HBO level or Netflix kind of hard

00:42:11   you know rated R kind of stuff there there is an audience for it that is different um so if it's

00:42:17   done well then it could be a interesting brand position for them here's why I think it's not an

00:42:24   issue about like this the explicit content stuff is I don't watch completely all explicit content 24/7

00:42:32   right like this is not a thing that I do yeah you know like I don't not all of my tv shows have sex

00:42:38   in them like this is not a thing but I'm not saying that I'm going to just be watching Apple's

00:42:46   tv content right like yeah these will just be the programs I watch on Apple's service

00:42:51   might not be explicit but then there are other shows like your Game of Thrones which are not

00:42:58   there anyway they're somewhere else like currently we go to places and watch content but like people

00:43:03   still watch content on NBC right people still watch content on network television that they

00:43:07   really enjoy like Brooklyn Nine-Nine one of my favorite tv shows it's on NBC there's very little

00:43:13   hardcore sex and nudity in Brooklyn Nine-Nine so it's like I I don't I understand why people think

00:43:19   this but I don't think that it means they won't make good stuff they'll just make good stuff that

00:43:25   meets certain guidelines of maturity so there's still good content to be in that area maybe I

00:43:31   think it's a question because of whether it is something that the tv guys are running based on

00:43:36   a premise and they accepted that premise when they came and they're like here's what we're going to do

00:43:40   because we don't know what this what the brand promise of Apple tv is going to be right and who

00:43:44   their target audience is we don't know anything about it we are we are making guesses and it's

00:43:48   very easy to say it's going to be Netflix or it's going to be HBO but it's probably not it's probably

00:43:52   going to be a little bit different and they're going to position it as something that is great

00:43:55   for families great for people who've got kids and also for adults but it's not going to be you know

00:44:00   it's not going to it's cross a certain line they'll have some kind of standards there

00:44:03   there is also the argument that again full credit to Christina for pointing this out we we've talked

00:44:08   about it before in the expensive NBC conversation which is sometimes we hear from a lot of people

00:44:13   who are like well wait a second I don't like those shows that have like really brutal violence and

00:44:18   nudity and sex I prefer stuff that that is not quite as hard core as that right and and and why

00:44:28   are you saying that if it doesn't have violence and sex it's not any good and that's not what we're

00:44:33   saying I think there's an audience for it but there are other audiences what the concern is

00:44:37   is that a lot of the best tv creators want complete freedom and when you're recruiting somebody to

00:44:47   to do a show for you and you may think well I'm writing them a check shouldn't they be happy the

00:44:53   challenge is that Netflix and Amazon and others are also bidding for their work if they are a

00:44:58   a-list creator and if Netflix says we won't give you any content notes make what you want

00:45:06   that is different and better than Apple saying we have we have a level of standard that you need to

00:45:13   know about we're not going to allow nudity and we're not going to allow violence beyond a certain

00:45:18   point and sex beyond a certain point and you have to be okay with that and if you're an a-list

00:45:22   creator and you look at these offers and they're very similar you're probably going to take the

00:45:26   one that gives you complete freedom because then you just don't have to hassle you you you can do

00:45:29   whatever you want not necessarily even that you're planning or that your show needs gratuitous nudity

00:45:36   but that you like the idea that you've got in Netflix or Amazon a partner with a track record

00:45:41   of letting people do the kind of stuff they want to do and with Apple you're like ah they're going

00:45:46   to give me a hassle so we're in this but nothing succeeds like success right so Apple right now has

00:45:52   got a lot of people who basically saw the size of the check and are taking them on faith so it's

00:45:57   money and a little bit of faith but it's it's mostly the money right at some point if Apple

00:46:03   launches this and the content is good and it's a successful thing then it will be known what you do

00:46:09   when you make an Apple show and you'll look at it and you'll look at the money but you'll also look

00:46:13   at oh I have now heard positive things from colleagues and I've seen the content and now I can

00:46:20   I can go in there and I can trust them on the flip side if you if they launch the stuff and it's not

00:46:26   very good and it's really generic and it's like warmed over network TV and there are lots of

00:46:30   stories about people getting stuff taken out because Apple said it was not appropriate for

00:46:34   their audience then it will be that much harder for Apple to sign top level talent so that's I

00:46:39   think that's the issue that is just outstanding and we're going to have to find out about because

00:46:44   it's not that they can't make this work it's just how they approach it and how they execute and and

00:46:49   as I said to Christina on Twitter in the end the the argument here is Apple might might be bad might

00:46:55   do this badly and then it'll be bad and then it'll be a failure and it's like that is that is

00:47:00   absolutely a possibility yeah but that's true of anything right like you have to execute in the end

00:47:05   and we don't know how they're executing so we'll have to see like if the shows are bad

00:47:08   and the the creative people behind them had a terrible experience then very clearly they will

00:47:14   have blown it but we just don't know now we have some guesses but in the end you know it could go

00:47:20   either way yeah and I think that this is changing a lot of our perceptions of how they operate and

00:47:26   it's going to continue to because this is like a totally very very different world and yeah people

00:47:31   have a hard time wrapping their head around the idea that Apple is Apple is doing this and and

00:47:35   again you get the you get the carpool karaoke and planet of the apps things a lot from people who

00:47:39   are who are basically saying you know Apple already tried tv and it was a disaster it's a very

00:47:44   different story this time but I get the idea that it's very hard to shake the perception that these

00:47:49   are computer people making tv yeah I mean a lot of the time all you've got is what you've seen

00:47:53   right and if that's what you've seen I mean Netflix was a logistics company they basically

00:47:58   they they were a tech company in that they could build a website and a logistics company in that

00:48:02   they had warehouses with DVDs right and they became Netflix as we know today they are essentially a

00:48:09   tech and logistics company that turned the corner into producing original content and then a

00:48:14   streaming technology company right when they went to streaming originally but then they started

00:48:17   creating all their own originals and they became Netflix they did it Amazon again is a tech and

00:48:23   logistics company who hired a bunch of people to run a studio to make stuff and now they have

00:48:29   successfully done that so it's not like this hasn't happened before and the reality is the

00:48:34   tech companies have the money Sony just their CEO just announced to some surprise this didn't even

00:48:40   make it in our headlines but to some surprise at CES that Sony he the new CEO is like wanting to

00:48:46   double down on Sony as an entertainment company as a maker of video games and streaming services

00:48:52   and as a movie studio and that is people everybody thought that they would just sell it off and get

00:48:57   out of the business but again you know Sony is tech company they they see the value of being in

00:49:04   the entertainment industry so this is not the only time a company has tried to do this what Apple is

00:49:09   doing right now it's very different for Apple and they may not succeed at it but if you think of

00:49:15   Apple as a company that only can make good hardware that's fair but they also have a lot

00:49:22   of cash in which they can set up entirely new businesses and take a shot and that's what they're

00:49:27   doing so we'll see how it goes but it is it's not it's not Apple you know Apple took the name

00:49:32   computer off of their company more than 10 years ago they're a different company now and they

00:49:39   continue to grow and change and do things in the last two years you and I have done a lot of shows

00:49:43   where we've said here's what we expect from Apple because they've done it the same way the last few

00:49:47   years and been surprised when they did something different Apple's not playing by their old rule

00:49:51   book anymore they're and I think that's good because I think complacency is will be the death

00:49:57   of any company especially a company that's been as massively successful and profitable as Apple so I

00:50:02   like that they're trying other stuff I we also yes should we also still be critical of how they're

00:50:08   handling the Mac and iOS and things like that sure but when you've got hundreds hundreds of or

00:50:14   a hundred billion dollars in the bank you know the people who are programming Apple TV are not

00:50:19   designing keyboards for laptops these are separate businesses and yeah and people have a hard time

00:50:24   keeping those things apart right people are like oh why are they doing a TV thing when they should

00:50:28   be making better laptops it's like well you know those are different things they should be making

00:50:34   a TV thing and making better laptops and one part of their group is over here doing a and the other

00:50:39   part is doing b and you know your criticism of b really doesn't have anything to do with a I don't

00:50:44   think Tim Cook is skipping the meeting about the the MacBook keyboard in order to watch his screeners

00:50:51   of the new Ron Moore space drama right well that's that is what we expect anyway I think Tim was

00:50:59   watching his screeners when he's on his uh his stationary bike at 5 a.m I think that's probably

00:51:04   what he's doing oh and he's flying to Europe for to meet people yeah um we we stated this I want

00:51:10   to reiterate it because it's a lead into the next part even though we'll take a break because like

00:51:14   the reason they are doing this my primary reason they are doing this is to appease Wall Street

00:51:22   so Apple need to show growth and one of the ways they will show revenue growth is in getting their

00:51:30   existing customers to give them more money right it's very important for the game that Apple has

00:51:35   played and I mean it wasn't Tim, Tim didn't decide to put uh to make Apple public but this is where

00:51:41   they are they have to appease Wall Street it's kind of his job to do that so one of the ways

00:51:45   they're going to do it is they're saying we're going to increase the services revenue and part

00:51:48   of the services revenue is making people pay them more money for more stuff and this way especially

00:51:53   by doing what they're doing now they can make their existing customers pay but isn't it also

00:51:57   nice that now you don't need to be an Apple customer to watch their content you just need

00:52:01   a Samsung TV and probably a Fire TV box so they can get Android customers to pay for their content

00:52:06   too so this is a way for Apple to get more money and viewed a certain way Apple launching a TV

00:52:14   service is literally no different than Apple doing research into AR glasses or cars or anything else

00:52:23   they're doing what happened three years ago when they announced that thing about services revenue

00:52:27   that shows you that Apple internally has been talking because of Wall Street because they're

00:52:32   a public company and Wall Street is concerned with growth about the obvious end of the road for

00:52:39   massive iPhone revenue growth and sales growth right the end of the ride I wrote a whole thing

00:52:45   at Tom's Guide and we'll talk about it in our next segment I suspect about Apple and the iPhone

00:52:50   but like it's been very clear for a long time that Apple knows that their massive engine for

00:52:56   revenue growth that Wall Street has loved is going to stop and it's going to be profitable but it's

00:53:02   not going to be growth like they're used to and so they have been placing lots of long-term bets

00:53:08   on other ways they could raise revenue to grow revenue beyond the iPhone and this is one of those

00:53:14   bets but those all the money that they spent on Project Titan whether or not there's ever anything

00:53:20   that comes out of it that was one of those bets too this is just more visible because they're

00:53:23   spending money and paying Hollywood people and making deals with TV manufacturers but it's all

00:53:28   the same in the end which is how do we find new ways to grow Apple because you know the fact is

00:53:34   although a lot of Apple fans would like Apple to just sort of stick to its knitting and focus on

00:53:41   making computers and maybe phones and iPads forever the fact is as a public company they

00:53:48   basically can't they basically can't the pressure to continue showing revenue growth is enormous and

00:53:54   you know we could argue about whether that is healthy for any company who's incredibly profitable

00:53:59   to be forced to show revenue growth but that's just how the welcome to capitalism this is where

00:54:04   we are so they're going to take that cash hoard that they've got and invest in a whole bunch of

00:54:08   stuff and hope that some of that stuff hits it doesn't all have to hit but hope that some of that

00:54:13   stuff hits and continues to be the engine that fuels revenue growth even as the iPhone is just

00:54:19   throwing off profits you could think of it that way in fact and we'll talk about this more in the

00:54:22   next segment that you know the cash generated by the stable profitable iPhone business is the thing

00:54:28   that you use to fund whatever is next. Today's show is brought to you by our friends at Luna Display

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00:55:28   much I'll tell you something for me Jason that I did just yesterday actually I'm preparing for

00:55:33   this show I write out my notes for this show in Apple Notes that's tip because I'm collecting

00:55:37   links in there and I'm writing my notes out some stuff I write like big chunks of our outline which

00:55:42   I will drop in something that drives me crazy on iOS is rich text is not observed well for between

00:55:49   applications so if I copy a lovely bulleted list in my notes and drop it into Google Docs

00:55:55   it doesn't observe the bullets it just puts a bunch of asterisks in and I have to go through

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00:57:22   Luna Display for their support of this show and Relay FM. So this is I didn't realize until we

00:57:31   started talking about this how perfectly these two topics that we're talking about today go together

00:57:35   yeah I just kind of flowed into it in the last segment I was like oh uh we're talking about the

00:57:40   next thing now aren't we we should take a break so Apple need to continue to show an increase in

00:57:46   services revenue and they knew this because they knew eventually the iPhone would either flatten or

00:57:52   start to go down and I think to everybody's surprise it's happening right now on Wednesday

00:57:59   Tim Cook posted a letter to investors on apple.com that highlighted they would not meet their revenue

00:58:05   guidance for the holiday quarter which is the financial quarter Q1 and that they were now going

00:58:10   to adjust their figures Apple had previously set their revenue guidance at somewhere between 89

00:58:16   to 93 billion dollars for the quarter it has now been adjusted to 84 billion dollars in overall

00:58:22   revenue for the quarter so we're looking at a change a miscalculation of somewhere in the range

00:58:28   of five to nine billion dollars right that's kind of like where we're looking at they're saying it

00:58:33   will be 84 roundabout but they were previously projecting somewhere between 89 to 93. I'll give

00:58:39   some more follow-up there was a great discussion on ATP this week about this very topic luckily for

00:58:44   them it happened like an hour before they recorded so like yeah that was that was very pleased that

00:58:49   they got that interest under the wire there so let's talk about why did this happen so I should

00:58:54   just say like the the letter is very complex and we're trying our best to break it down right

00:59:00   because it is written for investors and I think as you would probably imagine and as I believe

00:59:05   a lot of it is written in such a way to try and hide a little bit about what might actually be

00:59:10   happening like Apple can talk about and I believe everything they're saying but I'm sure there's

00:59:15   there's a little bit in there where they're just trying to like make things look a little better

00:59:19   than maybe they are because this is how companies operate right like you're not gonna be completely

00:59:23   honest that's no there there's the um yeah the idea here is that they are trying to put the best

00:59:30   face on it they can yes um because although I also oh right exactly but they also have to disclose

00:59:36   and I think what's interesting is that even though the bulk of it is about China shortfall they if it

00:59:44   was really all about China's shortfall and they had no other concerns it that's what the statement

00:59:50   would say and it wasn't that was it took we took a header in China oh also that was the biggest that

00:59:55   was primarily why oh also here's a whole bunch of other things and like that is my when I first saw

01:00:01   it I thought well this is interesting because it sounds to me like Apple had a problem in China

01:00:05   with iPhone and they're using this moment to have the China thing kind of overshadow all of these

01:00:13   other underlying things that are going on with the iPhone and I feel like that is probably what's

01:00:18   going on here is right like there is weakness in the iPhone elsewhere they made some mistakes

01:00:22   about the iPhone elsewhere and they're they're not I think maybe even legally not allowed to just

01:00:27   completely sweep that stuff under the rug they need to get it out there they want your attention

01:00:31   on China they want your attention on the big thing and not all the other underlying things but it's

01:00:36   hard not to look at all the fact that they went to the trouble of mentioning them and say you know

01:00:41   you know yes this is a big China miss that's the primary driver here but they're also owning up to

01:00:47   having a lot of other issues largely regarding the iPhone more worldwide and it's so it's important

01:00:52   not to not to let that override the fact that there is a big miss in China but also not to

01:00:57   ignore the rest of it yeah because there was more right like that's what's so interesting about this

01:01:01   so like why why did this happen why did they meet why did they miss this so as you say China's what

01:01:07   they're saying is the big thing tariffs economic deceleration rising tensions with the U.S. they

01:01:12   give every possible reason right that that there could be a thing there's great free peace that Ben

01:01:18   Thompson just posted about Apple's errors he calls it his weekly piece at Stratechery and he makes the

01:01:24   very strong point that they should have seen this coming for a few reasons and that's actually my

01:01:29   biggest concern about this is at the time I remember they did this forecast I'm like wow

01:01:35   okay like everybody's like really great like because we trust Apple's forecasting they have

01:01:40   they have very rarely steered anyone wrong and as Ben Thompson wrote like number one on the agenda

01:01:47   should be the last time Apple followed up a super fancy new phone that brought a lot of new features

01:01:54   with an S series model sales tanked in China that that just you know that was the six

01:02:02   six s with the bigger phone so they did the 10 and they're like oh no no no no everybody in China is

01:02:10   going to rush out and get the 10s like no they didn't and and I think that makes a good point

01:02:16   like this is not just necessarily about economic weakness in China although it's this is complicated

01:02:20   it's about a lot of different things but Ben's point I think is a good one which is also the

01:02:25   Chinese market has shown a lack of receptivity to the S model of something when they bought the

01:02:31   original model the previous year and that drove sales up and I think the iPhone 10 was a hit in

01:02:35   China but that you know what the the iPhone 6 was a hit in China and then nobody bought the 6s

01:02:40   because it was just the 6 with slight differences and the Chinese market seems to want more demand

01:02:46   more from a new iPhone if they're going to buy a new iPhone. Yeah allow me to read these two quotes

01:02:51   so this is one I like these two back to back because I think it shows what we're what we're

01:02:56   trying to say here so lower than anticipated iPhone revenue primarily in greater China accounts for

01:03:01   all of our revenue shortfall to our guidance and for much more than our entire year-over-year

01:03:06   revenue decline that is written in such a way that I don't fully understand it and I think that's kind

01:03:11   of the point because if that's all it was then why does it why is it then followed up by this

01:03:17   statement while greater China and other emerging markets accounted for the vast majority of year

01:03:22   over year iPhone revenue decline in some developed markets iPhone upgrades also were not as strong as

01:03:28   we thought they would be so what I my takeaway from this Jason with absolutely no real expertise

01:03:34   is that if you look at everything overall right if you the the with what happened in China

01:03:42   there are other parts of this that brought it down but then there are other parts in other

01:03:47   countries that brought it back up again so it's like that these these two things are true but the

01:03:53   real picture is they lost money everywhere in China they made money in other places in in other

01:03:59   markets that brought it back up again which is why they still have to point out the fact that there

01:04:04   was still enough iPhone revenue decline outside of China which made the iPhone down year over year

01:04:10   that's my read on this so like while greater China and other emerging markets accounted for the vast

01:04:15   majority of the year-over-year iPhone revenue decline in some developed markets iPhone upgrades

01:04:21   also were not as strong as we thought they would be now I am going to take that to mean the United

01:04:26   States of America and the reason I will take that is because later on when they talk about

01:04:32   developed markets they specifically name some but they don't specifically name any here so

01:04:39   why did this happen why in some developed markets did Apple sell less iPhones Apple say

01:04:46   macroeconomic challenges fewer carrier subsidies iPhone battery replacements these are wild to me

01:04:54   by the way like those last two yeah because the carrier subsidies is not a 2019 or 2018 new thing

01:05:01   this has been a thing that's been going on for a long time right their ongoing narrative in the in

01:05:05   the in the calls that they do with analysts quarterly has been that the carrier subsidies

01:05:10   going away has changed buyer behavior and I think that's what they're saying here I think again you

01:05:15   and I would probably say why did it take them quite so much by surprise I do agree with the idea that

01:05:24   they're trying to figure out what the new buying cycle is and the old rules don't apply and in his

01:05:30   CNBC interview Tim Cook did the day of this one of the things that he talked about was Apple being

01:05:36   more aggressive not only in those trade-in programs that you and I talked about where it's the 10r

01:05:40   with the trade-in and all of that that they're trying to push but also in more being more active

01:05:46   in pushing you know monthly plan monthly plan payments because it was really good for Apple

01:05:52   when the perception was that the iPhone will cost you know $300 instead of a thousand dollars even

01:05:59   though you were paying for it monthly for two years it was really good for Apple because it

01:06:04   lowered the the perceived price and so I think in the future you will regardless of what Apple does

01:06:09   in terms of the actual price of these iPhones I think you will see Apple be even more aggressive

01:06:15   in terms of having the the trade-in programs and and a and a price with a monthly fee basically like

01:06:25   a monthly installment plan kind of thing I think they're going to do even more of that because

01:06:30   their feeling is you know we can sell a lot more iPhones over time if people feel that they're

01:06:34   cheaper than they are by putting them on a plan like back in the subsidy days so I agree with

01:06:39   that the question is did they not factor that in already I guess maybe they were more optimistic

01:06:44   about being able to convert people it just seems like a surprise that is that somehow caught them

01:06:49   it comes back to what I was saying before which is I think my number one takeaway about all of

01:06:52   this is not like oh no the sky is falling iPhone sales are flat and and below expectation and it

01:06:58   was only the second most profitable Apple quarter ever right like there are problems and then there

01:07:03   are problems my problem with this is that Apple blew it which means that either they had no idea

01:07:10   and they were taken completely by surprise which is you know like did they take their eye off the

01:07:17   ball or they are delusional and they believe their own press releases and they think that app that

01:07:22   they can never go down they can only go up either way I think that's the fundamentally worst part of

01:07:28   this is there are lots of things that are listed in this story that they should have anticipated

01:07:34   and they either didn't believe it because of some delusion or they didn't see it and either way that

01:07:44   is concerning right that is it actually reminds me of when they released the iPhone SE and they

01:07:49   were like whoa we sold more of these than we thought that was a good that was a good story

01:07:55   but at the same time it's like how it shows you guys are out of touch with your customers because

01:08:01   you should have anticipated that this phone would have demand and even though you released it you

01:08:05   didn't believe in it so I'm having one of those moments here which is why did you miss this because

01:08:12   a lot of this stuff does not seem unforeseeable the iPhone battery replacement program is a similar

01:08:18   thing it's like that's been going on for like a year guys you should know how it's been going

01:08:25   yeah this should not have been a surprise this in the last two years I think this is bull uh

01:08:31   here's my thinking on this right okay one how many could it really have been now let's imagine

01:08:37   it's hundreds of millions right it's not going to affect revenue growth the fact that the batteries

01:08:42   were replaced or that apple may have been doing the battery replacements at a loss that's an

01:08:46   operating cost it's not a revenue thing right you don't subtract the amount of money that it costs

01:08:50   them to replace these batteries from iphone revenue right like I feel I've seen a lot of

01:08:54   people talking about that these are not the same thing right like Tim is not saying we were taking

01:08:59   a loss in all these batteries so it's it's decreased our revenue what they seem to be

01:09:05   saying with this is like people replacing their batteries means that they didn't buy new phones

01:09:12   now there are a bunch of issues in that right which is like one so you were coasting for years

01:09:18   on the idea that people needed new phones because their batteries were bad right but the other part

01:09:25   is if somebody decides that they're going to put a new battery in their old phone and this is better

01:09:31   for them than the new phone does that say something about the new phone like what does that say like

01:09:38   my feeling is the phones are too expensive and that's what's happened here yeah I think it's

01:09:43   I think it's all those things I think this is it's really funny to think that this uh this new story

01:09:51   about battery so let's let's even rephrase this a decision made in iphone engineering in power

01:09:57   management to solve the problem of of old iphone batteries not being able to hold the charge and

01:10:04   causing spontaneous shutdowns which was really annoying and their response was we can fix this

01:10:10   by throttling and then everybody has a better experience because while their phone is slow and

01:10:16   that's not great at least it stays functional and it doesn't you flip open the camera and it dies

01:10:22   which was the most common thing is a flip open the camera or video and it dies because now it's got a

01:10:28   spike it needs more battery more power than the battery can give it and it shuts itself down

01:10:34   that decision had potentially incredible consequences because it led to that battery

01:10:42   gate story which led to apple changing its ui and and getting lots of bad press but it also led to

01:10:51   apple doing a very i would say very steve jobsian thing which is like fine fine get have another

01:10:57   bat have a cheap battery and and that may have been at a loss yeah that had a lot of fallout

01:11:03   because um i've talked to people who work in the apple retail stores and since that battery program

01:11:08   was announced the whole year they were completely swamped with battery replacements like it is it

01:11:15   like it completely changed the complexion of at least the people i've talked to of their stores

01:11:20   where they have people frantically working on this massive influx of people who are bringing in things

01:11:26   and keeping on keep in mind this is this is retail employees being uh focused not on people who are

01:11:32   buying phones but on people who are uh doing something that apple's taking a loss on possibly

01:11:38   so there's there's a lot of loss going on because of this program and in the end what and i you know

01:11:45   i don't know about you but i kept hearing people from people in december who are like oh yeah i'm

01:11:49   i gotta take my phone in before december 31st yep for the battery replacement like i knew many

01:11:55   people who did that and so like what we've done here apple you have inadvertently educated the

01:12:03   market that the when your iphone is old uh get a new battery and i do think um that in a tech bubble

01:12:13   we miss how people really use their iphones and i think the the i saw a thread about this on twitter

01:12:21   that i thought was really good which is if you if you look at uh my friends who are not in the tech

01:12:25   bubble do this too like so many of them have broken iphones that they still use you know iphones with

01:12:32   shattered screens that they still use this idea that you know you you just replace your iphone

01:12:38   every year or two like in the real world a lot of people try to stretch their iphone as long as they

01:12:44   can because they will like the new phone when they get it but they the old one works fine and they

01:12:49   just want to keep using it for as long as possible and the battery replacement program is like a shot

01:12:54   in the arm right it's like oh i didn't even know i could just get the battery replaced and now it's

01:12:58   faster and it lasts longer i'm never going to need a new iphone right and and so there has been this

01:13:04   uh interesting educational process where apple inadvertently has educated everybody who's

01:13:09   interested in getting the longest life out of their iphones that they can do that by paying

01:13:13   you know 29 or 59 or whatever the the final you know new 2019 rate is it's still a pretty good

01:13:18   deal and way better than buying a new iphone and they burden their retail store in the process which

01:13:23   is really great so so yeah and then the more you raise the price of the iphone the more the weight

01:13:32   goes toward putting off an upgrade so it's both of those things i see a lot of this as like they

01:13:38   inadvertently dug their own grave on this situation because i saw steve trout and smith

01:13:46   mentioned this this is the same year where ios 12 made old phones run better uh-huh at the same time

01:13:54   they're giving you batteries to make them last longer people aren't buying as many new phones

01:13:59   it's like if you think about it right now i don't like i'm not trying to build a conspiracy theory

01:14:03   here but like there is this idea of like this planned obsolescence right like people have a

01:14:07   belief that their phones are only supposed to last an amount of time then they get a new one

01:14:11   so what that actually translated into is people's phones would would get slow they would start dying

01:14:16   so they buy a new phone right but like so what was actually happening is that was happening people's

01:14:22   phones were were crapping out on them so they buy a new one but now there are these two things

01:14:27   which mean their i older iphones run better so they're not buying the new phones especially when

01:14:33   the new iphones are really expensive so it's one of these things you mentioned earlier about apple

01:14:38   knowing their customers maybe this means they didn't know why people they thought everyone was

01:14:43   buying these new phones every year because they were amazing and new and they loved them so much

01:14:48   what it actually turned out was they were only lasting them two years so they had to buy a new

01:14:52   one yeah yeah that's i think there is some truth in that um i do think you mentioned the ios 12 stuff

01:14:59   you know based on what they said on stage i i kind of feel like this is actually apple's long game

01:15:06   apple's long game is we we are going to i mean they set it on stage we want you to be able to use

01:15:13   use the iphone as long as possible we want to extend that life because we want you to feel good

01:15:18   about having that but unsaid there are a couple of things one is we want to keep the resale value high

01:15:23   because we want to get you in a new iphone and if the old iphone value stays up because it continues

01:15:32   to be useful that trade-in will give you some trading value you're more motivated to buy and

01:15:36   then we will take that and we will we will do something else with it that that makes us more

01:15:40   money so that's number one and then number two is um oh you only want to buy an iphone every four or

01:15:46   five years well we're going to start making thousand dollar iphones like and so instead of

01:15:53   you buying a 500 dollar iphone every two years you're going to buy a thousand dollar iphone every

01:15:57   four years the problem with that is sticker shock it's easier to do if you're on a program if you

01:16:03   literally just pay apple monthly for four years or three years or two years to get a new iphone

01:16:09   but when you have to write a check for a thousand dollars it's a lot harder to buy that phone and

01:16:16   and so those two things work so like i get what they're doing which is if this is if phones are

01:16:21   not disposable and they need to be kept for many years why don't we make them better and

01:16:27   nicer and that way we keep our revenue and you keep having a great phone that can last a long

01:16:32   time and everybody wins and the problem is i think consumers are saying yeah but that's still too

01:16:38   much money i'll just hang on to my phone for a little bit longer and the and the cycle gets

01:16:43   longer and it seems to me like maybe apple's calculation about that either hit them too soon

01:16:48   or like you know like this was the plan but they didn't expect it to be this year or whatever right

01:16:53   you know because i do feel like underlying all of this i mean we've been talking about it here but

01:16:57   underlying all of this is i get the sense that amid all of these other things they probably

01:17:04   made a mistake on pricing they probably pushed it a little too far i uncategorically now believe

01:17:11   that like i i thought it and like you know it's like because here's the thing and again this is

01:17:15   super anecdotal but everyone that i know outside of the tech bubble that i've spoken to about this

01:17:20   week i've gone yeah of course because the phones are too expensive yeah exactly every and this

01:17:24   isn't like a perception thing those phones are way too expensive like we all knew this we knew this

01:17:31   and it's like this idea of like oh well they're made out of stainless steel yeah but you chose

01:17:35   to make them out of stainless steel right like that didn't happen exactly well and the iphone 10

01:17:39   and this is the other piece and something that ben thompson mentioned is like you talk about the 10r

01:17:43   which is like it's nice that they made a cheaper phone although again it's not really cheaper

01:17:47   because it's the cost of the old iphone 7 plus right it's not cheaper it's like multiple hundreds

01:17:53   of dollars more than the phone was in its place previously exactly 750 for that but there's the

01:17:59   other piece which is apple has cultivated uh an audience of people who want the best that's why

01:18:03   they go with apple is they want the best and the 10r isn't the best the 10s is the best so a lot of

01:18:09   people even though the 10r is a really great phone i think there's some buying psychology there where

01:18:12   people look at the 10 and they're like yeah but no i'm gonna get the 10 or 10s or the 10s max so

01:18:17   that's going on too that adds complication um their decision to release the 10 10 the 10 and then the

01:18:26   10s and 10s max was a decision to build this ultra premium phone at a high price and i actually i

01:18:34   think i i understand that maybe that phone is super expensive to make and as a result they want

01:18:40   to price it high the problem is that if your audience only wants the best iphone and you've

01:18:44   made a super best iphone that costs too much for a lot of your audience you lose your audience right

01:18:49   like the idea that you can create an edition right a watch edition but if the only people who will

01:18:55   buy your product always want the best and the best is now overpriced it's priced out of their price

01:19:01   range then they just don't buy right i think there's some maybe some psychology here that they

01:19:06   that they missed i don't know i mean we're all speculating about this on the outside but that's

01:19:10   that that is my gut feeling is that is that they've been look let me take you back two years

01:19:17   remember when we heard the first rumors about the iphone 10 and the idea that they were going to

01:19:23   release two phones they were going to release or three phones a 10 and an 8 basically um and you

01:19:29   and i had a long conversation on this show about how risky it was that apple was tinkering with the

01:19:36   iphone because it's their it's their most important product and it's like super risky to change

01:19:41   pricing and confuse the market with like two different models and are people going to buy the

01:19:46   eight if there's a 10 or are they going to buy the 10 if there's an eight and all of this stuff

01:19:51   and this goes back to our previous segment too like why why risk it and the answer is because

01:19:58   they they knew that all these factors that they just said in this report that they were

01:20:05   surprised by they knew all of this stuff was happening they knew that the that the carrier

01:20:09   subsidies were going away and that uh that the the lifespan of your iphone was going to be longer

01:20:16   because people weren't going to want to uh buy on a two-year uh contract anymore like they did with

01:20:21   their cellular plans and they knew all of these things and so this was all part of their strategy

01:20:25   to change the iphone pricing and get more revenue out of it so that they could keep growing revenue

01:20:30   even when sales were flattening they like knew all of this that's why they made these huge risks and

01:20:37   with this this year's models i think it might be fair to say this is what we kind of were worried

01:20:42   about the previous year which is they made a bunch of changes to how they market and sell iphone

01:20:47   models and they they got some it looks like they got some things wrong and uh what will be most

01:20:56   interesting in 2019 is to see if they recalibrate because as several people enjoy pointing out apple

01:21:04   does plan these things years in advance so like at this point if they really did get taken by

01:21:09   surprise and released this statement saying they did like can they change their plans for 2019

01:21:16   are they locked into a bad plan and if they can how do they do that that it's going to be really

01:21:20   interesting to see because i think you and i both agree that they they made some very interesting

01:21:26   moves this year and some of the feedback they got from the market is you know the consumers is they

01:21:33   pushed it too far so they did give some indication about something that they're going to be trying

01:21:39   as kind of like a let's try and put a happy face on this but before we get to that let me thank

01:21:46   our final sponsor for this episode and that is fresh books fresh books is incredibly important

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01:23:50   all right so a couple of quotes how are they going to fix this we are undertaking and accelerating

01:23:57   other initiatives to improve our results is point one and then the only thing that tim gives us is

01:24:05   one such initiative is making it simple to trade in a phone in our stores finance the purchase over

01:24:10   time and get help transferring the data from the current to the new phone this is not only great

01:24:14   for the environment it's great for the customer their existing phone acts as a subsidy for their

01:24:18   new phone and it's great for developers as it can help grow our install base that developer's point

01:24:22   i don't even get it it's like whatever like you're just throwing something in there for funsies at

01:24:25   this point jason can i say some follow-up from previous weeks when we were talking about all

01:24:30   those banners and we tried to to position it as like maybe the iphone isn't in trouble but it's

01:24:35   this this and this i think we can say now they were there because the sales weren't good right

01:24:39   like i feel like we can say that now like they were struggling they knew they were struggling

01:24:44   and they were trying to juice the sales going into the holiday season by selling more phones

01:24:47   right it's probably true it's probably true i mean i i do feel like there's still this

01:24:52   overarching thing which is part of the idea of pricing a phone that high is that then you have

01:24:57   to start getting trade-ins but would they have had the giant price with the asterisk in it if

01:25:01   they weren't needing to boost the moving of phones i think this says that that's that's exactly right

01:25:06   right is that they they had that moment where like wow we need to be way more aggressive at finding

01:25:10   a way to sell people this phone for not the full price because they're not buying it at full price

01:25:15   and you know that's that's the truth of it i think the the yeah pricing it that high like if they've

01:25:23   got room to room to discount it that's good like i feel like when you see uh like target or best

01:25:30   buy or something have an apple device for a hundred dollars off one of that's one of the

01:25:34   advantages of the high prices that they're setting is that they can do discounts that they couldn't

01:25:38   do before but in this case being this aggressive about it somebody saw the numbers in november and

01:25:43   was like oh no and then they're like what can we do what can we do and i would imagine by this time

01:25:48   by by the fall when they launch new iphones again that we're going to see this we're we're going to

01:25:54   see apple's marketing and their in-store experience and all of it be based around

01:25:59   something like a price with a monthly or a monthly price with no down no money down or

01:26:09   and and trading offers and they're going to be super aggressive about it's like a it's like a

01:26:14   buying a car right they're going to be like what can i do to get you to leave here today with an

01:26:18   iphone what can i do to get you a new iphone today exactly right so so it'll be like well you've got

01:26:24   what phone do you have now oh you have an eight or you have a seven well uh you can get this for

01:26:29   this price and uh or you could get this for with you trading your seven for twenty dollars a month

01:26:38   for two years and we'll set you up right here like and if i'm apple and apple retail right i am

01:26:45   investing huge amounts of time and money right now in a strategy that will let you know the

01:26:52   upgrade experience the apple has done you and i did that show a long time ago about how

01:26:58   frustrating it was to buy a new iphone on the on the back side because you had to transfer your

01:27:02   data and all of that and it's echoed here a little bit which is the buying it at the apple store

01:27:07   can still be frustrating especially with the sticker shock that's there now so this is the next

01:27:12   way to make the getting a new iphone experience to be uh be better and it serves apple because it

01:27:19   sells more new iphones which is can we make it super easy that if you walk into the store and

01:27:24   say i want a new iphone for them to be like do do do uh you know you're signed up for this thing

01:27:29   we'll bill you every month uh we transferred your data and here's your phone and you walk out like

01:27:35   the the slicker they can make that the better that'll that'll be for them and the better that

01:27:39   they'll be able to make a sale whether they can do that all without also cutting the the retail price

01:27:44   is interesting i will say i never thought apple would stop reporting sales figures and they did

01:27:51   that so it wouldn't surprise me if apple starts not marketing the full price anymore if apple

01:27:57   just stops talking about 999 right get a new iphone from 499 right yeah 349 with the standard 20

01:28:06   also i'll say if they do an apple prime subscription service um does that fit in here where you can just

01:28:13   say you know apple prime customers can come in and get it for and that built into apple prime is a

01:28:19   two-year iphone thing i mean there's lots of things that they could do but i i do wonder if at the very

01:28:25   least that you're just not going to see apple market the full price of their phones anymore

01:28:29   like like back in the day when there were carrier subsidies and you could buy an unlocked phone

01:28:33   for 699 but who does that that's crazy um you know we're we've entered this era where that

01:28:41   unlocked price is the price everybody sees and it's really bad for apple we should actually do

01:28:47   some ask upgrade questions to finish out today's episode and and i think of this mainly because we

01:28:53   have a question from ted here and ted says if apple would introduce apple prime during the next

01:28:58   iphone launch including like you get an iphone you get apple care apple music and apple tv the video

01:29:04   service and news for say like a couple hundred dollars a month do you think that this is something

01:29:09   that would entice people i'll also include in the links uh an article from mg seagull where mg wrote

01:29:15   about all of this sort of stuff a while back and kind of followed it up recently with this stuff

01:29:20   one do you think this is something that will exist and two is it something that would interest you

01:29:24   i think they should do it i think there's a question about how do you make that bundle

01:29:29   something that is worth it what what you really want to do is make a bundle that has things in

01:29:33   it that people want and then they get some other stuff that they didn't want but maybe they use

01:29:38   out of it um and you know so like for me i look at this and like well what would i use and what

01:29:46   would i not use out of it and i'm i am paying for apple music i am going to pay for apple video i

01:29:50   am paying for icloud storage i don't generally pay for apple care but if i could pay apple monthly

01:29:59   a fee that seemed reasonable and get all of that and potentially yeah potentially get uh you you

01:30:06   would probably have to add in devices right because there's so different many different device levels

01:30:10   so the price would change what you would pay as a monthly but the idea is that all the other apple

01:30:15   services it's basically the iphone plan upgrade plan with apple services rolled into it on top

01:30:22   and i could do that for my ipad and they would just add in another monthly fee for that and there'd be

01:30:26   a predictable thing i'd think about it i'd think about it just services alone i would think about

01:30:32   it because i i kind of don't love the fact that i get you know a bunch of individual charges

01:30:37   apple invoices every week from different parts of apple it seems like a waste i would really like to

01:30:43   just sort of know what i'm paying them and what i'm getting out of it but i i get that there's a

01:30:47   lot of complexity here um and i think also if you're somebody who is not comfortable putting

01:30:53   down a credit card for a thousand dollar piece of hardware the idea that you have an understandable

01:31:00   expense that you know you're going to be paying x per month for two years instead of having that

01:31:05   giant expense up front that for a lot of people that that is something that they're a lot more

01:31:10   comfortable with so i think i i i feel like apple at some point has to bundle their services

01:31:15   together in some way um i don't know what way that would be but you know when they add video and they

01:31:21   add the the news stuff that they're doing it starts to feel like they have so many different services

01:31:27   that surely one way you make people tied even more tightly to your ecosystem in a services

01:31:32   oriented way is by building a a club a bundle some sort of thing like amazon has done

01:31:40   i i'm starting to look at stuff like this and i feel like it seems inevitable now as a way to

01:31:45   solve the two issues that they have right like you get people on these plans and they'll just keep

01:31:50   getting new phones every time rather you can they just keep rolling up to a new one um and then so

01:31:55   then you have even more phones in the chain to sell at cheaper prices when they roll out of those

01:32:00   year or two year long contracts and it also puts more money into your services because people get

01:32:06   in the services because the only way to get the phones on these rolling contracts is to do them

01:32:10   in the bundles like i see all of that together as like a yeah okay i think i can see all that

01:32:16   happening our next question comes from adam adam wants to know jason when you're editing

01:32:22   ferrite what is the best way to get large audio files onto your ipad so i used to use usb all the

01:32:28   time um you know you attach your ipad to your mac via usb you open itunes you go to the ipad you go

01:32:33   to file sharing you pick ferrite and then you drag the files in which is a terrible interface

01:32:41   and i wish apple would would change it however now i'm starting to think apple will never change it

01:32:45   because uh i have stopped doing that i airdrop the files i bring my ipad over to my my iMac and

01:32:54   i use airdrop and airdrop will if i if they're all the same file type so if i've got waves of

01:33:00   waves of every file that is going in the podcast i can select them all and drag them over to my iMac

01:33:06   or my ipad with airdrop from my iMac and airdrop goes really fast when it's it's a dedicated direct

01:33:13   connection it goes really fast it's not quite as fast as the wired connection but it's really fast

01:33:18   and the nicest part is that ios is much better at accepting airdrops than it used to be so when i

01:33:24   get those files over a dialog box pops up and says what app would you like these files in and it knows

01:33:32   that the last time i used it i selected ferrite so that one's highlighted i tap ferrite ferrite

01:33:37   opens and all the files appear and they went straight into ferrite and that's it so um i

01:33:44   since i have tried that it's super easy to do and that's what i do now and if you have different file

01:33:49   types you have to do them separately otherwise airdrop gets confused so if i have a an aiff

01:33:54   along with the waves aiff has to get loaded separately by a separate airdrop but otherwise

01:34:00   it's a it's really straightforward and um and so yeah i'm using that now i don't want to use like

01:34:05   icloud drive or anything like that because what ends up happening is that i have to upload those

01:34:09   files all the way up to the cloud even in my house and then download them back from the cloud in my

01:34:13   house and it's stupid that's just a waste of time and i don't need them then then i can delete them

01:34:18   from them there's no point in doing that so airdrop uh you would be surprised what stuff you can

01:34:22   airdrop to ios if you haven't tried it in a while it's uh it's pretty versatile in accepting files

01:34:28   via airdrop so that's what i use now and finally today richard says i'm trying to make a shortcut

01:34:34   that can add text to an existing note in the notes app and i'm sure that i'm sharing with other

01:34:38   people do you know a way this is really i this is a great frustration for me um apple notes does not

01:34:44   let you append to notes right i have a note shortcut so what i'll do is like if i want to

01:34:51   add something like a url or whatever um i will open the shortcut and take the url then i have

01:34:58   a little menu pop up that says what note do you want this to go into and tap it and it just opens

01:35:03   the note and then i have to paste it it's not great this is based on something that federico

01:35:07   built like it's not the perfect way to do it but for now that's all it can be i really hope that

01:35:12   a shortcut gets added in the future to append to a note that i would love that because i'm doing this

01:35:16   stuff all the time but i will make some recommendations there are some apps that will

01:35:21   let you do it so bear and evernote both have shortcuts to append to existing notes so i know

01:35:28   that you were saying that you share with people evernote has sharing functions it's up to you if

01:35:33   it's that important that you would move to it but they are some options but i really do hope that

01:35:39   apple will add and append to uh notes shortcut in the future because that would be so great yeah

01:35:44   yeah i agree i think there's a way to append text to a file in icloud drive there again but that's

01:35:51   not work for apple notes notes which is just text file yeah because that that append to that came

01:35:57   from workflow the one that lets you append to a file in dropbox or whatever so that's like a

01:36:02   grandfather in workflow uh action so uh fingers crossed for something on notes there in the future

01:36:09   that would be lovely all right so that wraps up this episode of upgrade if you want to find our

01:36:14   show notes go to relay.fm/upgrade/227 but they should also be in your app of choice if you want

01:36:20   to send in a question for us to answer at the end of the show hashtag ask upgrade would really

01:36:25   appreciate that thank you to everybody that does um you can open the show with a hashtag snow talk

01:36:30   question which can be about pretty much anything by and large not tech stuff i think is my is my

01:36:35   preferable in most cases because we can answer those questions in ask upgrade which is why i asked

01:36:41   jason about mexican food today i'm not saying the word because i just can't do it if you'd like to

01:36:46   send in some feedback for the show you can send tweets to us or to the @_upgradefm account

01:36:52   but we are on twitter i am @imike jason is @jsnell j s n e double l sixcolors.com and the

01:36:59   incomparable.com are two places you can go to for more snail content but we both host many other

01:37:04   shows here at relay fm uh go to relay.fm/shows i bet that jason is gonna have all of the ces

01:37:11   coverage you're hoping for and download this week uh yes it's gonna be good i think we i i i

01:37:18   i'll promote this if you haven't looked at download this is what i did i want you to tell

01:37:22   people about this i think we're gonna draft yeah you are ces

01:37:29   relay.fm/download i think it's mica sargent and flow ion who are gonna come and join stephen

01:37:34   and me and we're gonna draft things from ces so people should check it out very much looking

01:37:38   forward to that one so if you want it if you want a draft and you want it to be about ces

01:37:42   the only place you can go to get it is not going to be my assumption um thank you so much to our

01:37:47   sponsors this week to find people at freshbooks hollow and lunar display and most of all thank

01:37:52   you for listening we'll be back next time until then say goodbye jason snow goodbye everybody

01:37:59   you

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