221: Dongleton-on-Sea


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:08   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 221. Today's show is brought to you by Simple Contact,

00:00:16   Luna Display, PDF Pen, and Holo. My name is Myke Hurley, I am joined by Jason Snell. Hi, Jason Snell.

00:00:23   From my garage, this is me. Hello, Jason. It's Cyber Monday today, so everyone's gonna get 25%

00:00:31   more upgrade because we're gonna, for the low, low price of regular upgrade, because we're gonna be

00:00:38   doing My Neighbor Totoro at the end of today's episode as we welcome back Myke at the Movies.

00:00:43   Yay, yes, I'm looking forward to that. So it's like one of those plastic bottles that gets a

00:00:49   little bit larger and then they put a thing on the side that says 25% more than other bottles that

00:00:55   are smaller than this one, that kind of thing. That's what we have today. But we do have a

00:01:00   #SnellTalk question and this one comes from Jared, and Jared wants to know, Jason, what is your

00:01:05   opinion on Christmas music? When should it start to be played and do you have some favorites?

00:01:10   I appreciate this question. The opinion about Christmas music, so I believe as a,

00:01:16   as an American, I think that one of the great things about Thanksgiving, which we just had

00:01:21   on Thursday and my kids were out of school all last week and it was a pretty light week,

00:01:26   it was nice and I'm back to work today. I love Thanksgiving not only because I think it's

00:01:31   actually a very nice holiday and the idea that it is about reflection and thinking about what

00:01:36   you're thankful for and it's an opportunity for families to get together and it's also for

00:01:41   everybody in America. It's not based on any particular like religious background or anything

00:01:47   like that, it is for everybody. So I like that. It also is a really good backstop. I mean, it's

00:01:52   leaky. It's leaky these days, I'm not going to lie, but I feel like when I was flying back from

00:01:57   Ool a couple of years ago, I was in the Dublin airport and it was like October 27th or something

00:02:03   and there was Christmas stuff everywhere. And I thought, oh my God, why is all this Christmas

00:02:08   stuff out? And I said, oh, you know, they don't have a Thanksgiving to act as like a wall because

00:02:13   I am a believer in the, like I have some great holiday playlists that I really like, but I don't

00:02:20   listen to them until after Thanksgiving. So like now that it's after Thanksgiving, which is always

00:02:27   what is it, the fourth Thursday in November, now we can break it in. Now we're talking about when

00:02:35   are we going to go get a Christmas tree, get out all the decorations and stuff like that.

00:02:40   So we're getting there. We're getting there. So that's my official policy. Thanks for asking

00:02:46   about when Christmas things start to happen, at least here. In England, do they just break

00:02:51   out the Christmas stuff like November 1st, October 10th? You talking in retail because retail,

00:02:57   it's like it was happening before Halloween in places. Yeah. Just like the Dublin airport.

00:03:03   Yeah. It was getting pretty serious, which is frustrating. I think. I mean, I would prefer to

00:03:10   wait until like we're about a month away. That kind of feels like the way to do it for me, but

00:03:17   you know, retail is going to retail, Jason. Retail is going to retail. What can you do?

00:03:25   They're there. I don't blame them, right? They make a lot of money at it.

00:03:27   So that's what they're going to do. Do you have a favorite?

00:03:30   I will give everybody a link that we can put in the show notes to a piece that I have written

00:03:36   a couple of times once at Macworld, but more recently at Six Colors with this kind of geeky

00:03:42   holiday music playlist that I built. In terms of traditional, you know, I really like the Christmas

00:03:50   song, Chestnuts Roasting on an Open Fire, Nat King Cole. I like that one a lot. O'Tannenbaum is fun,

00:03:57   especially there's a They Might Be Giants version that's in the original German, which is fun.

00:04:01   And yeah, that's been in terms of what I would say kind of old school, I would go with a Christmas

00:04:09   song, which isn't that old school, but that's the one that I think is the favorite.

00:04:14   If you would like to send in a question to open an episode, just send in a tweet with the hashtag

00:04:20   SnellTalk and it may be picked for future use. Thank you to Jared for that great question.

00:04:25   Upgradeyourwardrobe.com is where you can go right now to buy Upgrade merch. We have merch items

00:04:32   available just until December the 4th. I want to thank everybody. We both would like to thank

00:04:37   everybody who has bought one of our wonderful Dongletown t-shirts so far. They seem to have been

00:04:42   received very warmly. So I recommend that people go and get those. We have Dongletown tees in blue

00:04:47   and orange. We have a very limited stock left of the Upgrade logo enamel pin. And then you can also

00:04:54   buy a hoodie or a regular Upgrade logo t-shirt if you would like to. You can also follow @_upgradefm

00:05:02   on Twitter because we've been giving away some free codes, which we're going to keep doing over

00:05:06   the next week. So you might be able to nag yourself a free t-shirt there, but we would love it if you

00:05:12   have the means and desire that you would want to purchase any of our merchandise right now,

00:05:16   that you would go and do that. We would love that. So you can go to upgradeyourwardrobe.com

00:05:24   and you can go ahead and buy some of our wonderful merchandise. Yeah, and you can also go to

00:05:30   the incomparable.com/shirt and I've got a bunch of incomparable and six color stuff available

00:05:37   over there too. Hat, sweatshirt, other good stuff. Wonderful. So you can go and check those out.

00:05:42   Put them in the same shopping cart. Yeah, with pins. Got to get all the great pins.

00:05:46   There's lots of great stuff available right now, but you can go and buy those if you would like.

00:05:52   Talking about dongles, we have some dongle related follow up today. So on the last episode,

00:05:57   we were trying to work out when it was that we first mentioned dongle town and I proposed that

00:06:02   it was on episode 114, but I couldn't find it. Um, good friend of the show, underscore David Smith

00:06:10   did two things. One confirmed that it was on episode 114 was the first time that dongle town

00:06:16   was mentioned on upgrade, but also what's more for a reason that I don't know why he did it,

00:06:21   but I love that he did. David has compiled a super cut of every single time me and you have said the

00:06:29   word dongle over the first 220 episodes of upgrade. It is a five minute audio file that you can go

00:06:38   and get, uh, which I'll put a link in the show notes. Um, so you can listen to it. It includes

00:06:43   a little bit of context every time that we say it, but if you just want to hear me and Jason saying

00:06:47   dongles, dongles, dongles over and over and over again, uh, you can go and check out the, all the

00:06:53   great dongles, uh, link, uh, if you want that. And thank you to underscore for doing that.

00:07:00   So that's there. I also wanted to mention, uh, we got a great, uh, piece of dongle fan art from

00:07:07   Ian on Twitter, which said the UK tourism poster for dongleton on sea, the beautiful seaside town,

00:07:14   which I love so much. It is the British seaside town of dongleton on sea. Um, and it's, it is,

00:07:21   I want, it's a tour tourism poster. So I really love this a lot. Actually. Dongleton on sea is a

00:07:28   much, a much nicer thought for me than just dongleton. It's good. This is a very frequent

00:07:33   thing in British seaside towns. It's something on sea. Well, and it's USB-C right? So it's the

00:07:38   dongleton on sea is perfect. Oh my gosh. I did not get that. Oh yeah. That's the listener. Ian, uh,

00:07:44   yeah, perhaps that should be on, on USB-C. So that's where it is. So if you're, if summering in,

00:07:50   uh, in England, uh, go to dongleton on sea. What a beautiful place it would be. It's the price of

00:07:56   admission is a little high, but yeah. Well, all the hotels have these strange, um, uh, strange

00:08:02   power plugs. So you have to bring an adapter. Yeah. Funnily enough, you even have to bring

00:08:06   your own adapters when you visit dongleton. All right. So do you remember on the last episode,

00:08:12   we were talking about the tragic wildfires and the terrible in California and the terrible air

00:08:18   quality and you, Jason posted the question of, I wonder what Apple parks doing considering they

00:08:22   have the natural ventilation system, right? Where it brings in air to cool the place down instead

00:08:27   of air conditioning. Well, we had an anonymous listener right in to tell us exactly what is

00:08:33   happening. So apparently this is not a practice. What the person told us, the smoke has been rough,

00:08:38   but Apple park is able to shut down the natural ventilation system for just this type of situation.

00:08:43   This also came in handy in the early days of the building being put together when we moved in

00:08:48   because the landscaping meant that the outside smell of manure, uh, yup. This doesn't mean all

00:08:54   of the air inside is clean though. The various entryways feel identical to the outside and

00:08:59   many people have been wearing masks, but the cafeteria air is the cleanest air by far.

00:09:05   Interesting. So I think this is, uh, fascinating. So it's not as bad as maybe it could have been,

00:09:10   but, um, you know, they probably also waited to shut it down and the air quality inside was always

00:09:17   not great. And the entryways that are probably pretty spacious and are letting in a lot of the

00:09:20   polluted air. And I wonder if they are thinking about, uh, uh, air filtration strategy or something

00:09:27   to clean up the air inside if it, if it's dirty, but this is interesting to hear. Uh, I appreciate

00:09:32   our anonymous listener saying that Apple Park does have some sort of strategies for this.

00:09:36   And, uh, the good news is that a, uh, storm front came in on Wednesday in the Bay Area and the air

00:09:43   is clear now. Oh, that is good news. That is good news. And, uh, what is the fire situation?

00:09:51   Fires are, those fires are out. They got, they got con- they're in containment and we also had

00:09:56   a lot of rain, which helped a lot. Yeah. Thank you for the rain, I guess, right? That's,

00:10:01   that's a good thing to have in a situation like that. Uh, the upgrade is, we still, we're still

00:10:06   getting lots and lots and lots of votes. We have set a closing date for upgrade is nominations.

00:10:12   You have until December 24th to get your votes in for the fifth annual upgrade is. So if you want to

00:10:20   get your votes in, this is an unprecedented opportunity to get your votes in over a long

00:10:26   period of time because behind the scenes, we sometimes record the upgrade is early,

00:10:31   but we're going to, we are going to record it early, but, um, it's not going to be, um,

00:10:37   too early. So we have, we have, it's good. It's good. We have until the end of the year for us

00:10:41   to consider our favorites of the year and for you to give your suggestions, which I like a lot.

00:10:47   Yep. Yep. So this, uh, by the way, just, I guess we can say this now, right? To this episode will

00:10:52   be, uh, the, the upgraded episode is going to be the episode that goes out on December 31st. So it's

00:11:00   going to be the last episode of the year. Um, that's when it's going to go up. So you'll be

00:11:05   able to check it out then, but you've got, you've got ample time, uh, to get your votes cast. If you

00:11:11   would like to do so, um, you know, you don't have to have a vote for every category. If you only have

00:11:16   one to submit votes for some that's perfectly valid to do by the way. Uh, so nothing, no,

00:11:20   no categories are actually required categories. So feel free to submit what you would like. Um,

00:11:26   and they will all be calculated and we'll go towards where the upgrade ease are going to be

00:11:30   awarded, uh, in the fifth annual upgrade ease, which is very, very exciting. And again, this is,

00:11:35   uh, as we've said, I think we said last week, this is an exciting way. The Mondays fall in December

00:11:41   where on the, uh, on, on that same day, Christmas Eve, we will have the, uh, upgrade holiday special.

00:11:48   What will be special about it? Wait and see. I can't wait to find out. And on the 31st,

00:11:53   then on new year's Eve, the upgrade ease. So there's lots of great things coming your way

00:11:58   in December, uh, from the upgrade program. Indeed, including next week's episode, which because of,

00:12:04   uh, I believe you are going to be on assignment next week. Yes. As we like to say, you will be

00:12:10   on assignment. I don't even know what that assignment is, but we've assigned you to do

00:12:13   something that is not being on the podcast. And therefore we will have a special guest

00:12:18   host next week. I don't want to tell you who it is, but I will remind you unrelated that

00:12:22   nothing is so perfect that it can't be complained about. I wonder who that could be. I don't know.

00:12:27   Nobody knows. You'll have to find out and check out upgrade next week. Now I was saying to Jason

00:12:32   before the show, I always enjoy listening to upgrade. So don't mind it when I have the time.

00:12:37   I always enjoy making upgrade knowing that Myke is going to hear it and be like,

00:12:41   what are they doing? Why are they ruining my show?

00:12:46   I have one piece of upstream news for you. Uh, this was from a report from the information,

00:12:50   um, via nine to five Mac. The Apple is apparently considering for as much as that can, can truly

00:12:59   mean, uh, a cheaper version, almost in dongle style of the Apple TV, like Chrome cast or the

00:13:07   fire TV sticks. So like a little HDMI dongle that you plug into the back of your television,

00:13:12   um, to, so you'll be able to access Apple TV content. So what you would naturally expect

00:13:18   that the differences between this, if it ever comes out, um, and the Apple TV that we have now

00:13:23   is in power and storage. So this would probably only be streaming stuff and it wouldn't have games

00:13:29   and apps for as useful as they are in the Apple TV. Um, and maybe some, there might be some other

00:13:36   restrictions and we would assume that they would do this. So they're able to get their new content

00:13:41   into as many homes as possible. That's why they would do it if they would ever do it.

00:13:45   Yeah. I wonder about this, um, and how they would do it and would they, part of me wants to say that

00:13:51   Apple would not do something, a product like this and make it super compromised because that doesn't

00:13:57   feel like Apple at the same time. Um, I mean, this report's weird cause it's considering, it's like,

00:14:02   not even that they're working on it. They're just like, somebody is thinking, should we do it? Uh,

00:14:05   I do think that there would be, uh, and a more affordable entry into Apple TV would probably

00:14:10   be good for Apple to have, but Apple hasn't done that yet. I've seen people speculate that it

00:14:14   wouldn't do 4k. I kind of have a hard time believing a brand new product in 2019 wouldn't

00:14:19   do 4k HDR. Like I think they got to do that. Um, but this idea that maybe it wouldn't be as,

00:14:25   as fast a processor, uh, therefore it might not be good as good for games or they might even,

00:14:31   you know, I don't think it sounds like Apple, but it is possible that they could make it a

00:14:36   strip down thing that didn't run the whole app platform, but only parts only could see parts of

00:14:40   the app store, like for video playback. Um, or even, uh, basically just ran the TV app. Uh, I

00:14:47   doubt they would do that because they want to let the third party providers provide their own apps.

00:14:52   Um, you want to be able to run Netflix and all that, but you know, they could bar everything.

00:14:57   It's seeing anything that was not in the, like the video section of the app store. Um, or I think

00:15:02   more likely they would just, you know, it'll be stripped down and it won't have much storage and

00:15:05   it will be, uh, but it'll still be an Apple TV. Um, I don't, I don't know. I mean, I would love

00:15:11   for them to do this because I think the entry price for the Apple TV is still too high given

00:15:15   their competition and given their motivation to get people into their ecosystem. And, you know,

00:15:20   I talked to somebody, a friend of mine this weekend who wanted to buy, um, a couple of these

00:15:26   seasons that are on sale on iTunes, TV seasons. And, but he didn't have an Apple TV and he's like,

00:15:31   I don't, I don't want to watch this on my iPad. And I thought, Oh yeah, you know, that's one of

00:15:35   those things that, you know, by not having the ability to get the iTunes stuff and, and whatever

00:15:40   Apple's going to do on the streaming stuff onto your TV set, uh, even if you're in Apple's

00:15:44   ecosystem a little bit, uh, that kind of stinks. So I think there's something to be said for Apple

00:15:49   to make that more accessible, whether it's a cheaper base model Apple TV, or it's one of these

00:15:54   stick things that's, that's a smaller and cheaper and maybe less functional. I think they do have to

00:15:59   do something. I just don't know what it is. Right? Like, I don't know what the,

00:16:05   the answer would be right. The, the, the regular Apple TV. So you can buy a non 4k Apple TV for

00:16:16   $149. And if you want to get your content into people's homes, I'm not sure that's the best way

00:16:26   to do that. Right. It doesn't feel like offering a $150 entry point before you even start paying

00:16:36   every month when like Amazon, they offer the fire TV stick for $25, right? Like that's

00:16:42   4k version is 35. So yeah. So like, you know, it's like, obviously Amazon have options this

00:16:50   cheap because they want people to see their content. Right. And then when you're looking

00:16:54   at something which is like four to five times more expensive before you start charging them,

00:16:58   I don't know if that's the right way to get people to watch the content that you're investing billions

00:17:04   of dollars into making, but it all depends on what Apple's ultimate strategy is. But I would

00:17:09   naturally think that if you're making a television series, you want people to see it and as many

00:17:14   people as possible. So maybe it's the right thing to do to try and have an option which is cheaper.

00:17:21   And I really don't think washer on your iPhone is the answer. Right. Right. This is the challenge

00:17:28   is what they want to do is get people who have iPhones or iPads or both to get them to start

00:17:36   thinking of Apple as a source for their TV set as well. And you know, again, having that interaction

00:17:43   with my friend over the weekend, I had that moment where I thought, Oh yeah, this is a huge untapped

00:17:49   market for Apple where these, you know, he, he's not even considered getting an Apple TV. And that's

00:17:54   the solution to his issue of, well, I want to buy these seasons, but I don't want to watch them on

00:17:58   my iPad. I want to watch them on my TV, but he's not going to buy the Apple TV at its current

00:18:02   pricing. So what can Apple do? How much money have you saved on buying the office of $35 when you

00:18:08   need to buy $150 item to play them? Right. So they're already in the ecosystem, but they're not

00:18:13   in the TV part of the ecosystem, the TV set part. And, uh, and that's important to Apple and, you

00:18:18   know, airplay is how you get things on there and you need an Apple TV for that too. So like, I, I

00:18:26   think it's an interesting place. The Apple TV isn't as a product, right? Because part,

00:18:31   part of me wants to say this product is not going to make or break your company, right?

00:18:34   It's totally not. It is a minor product. This product exists to be a compliment to your ecosystem.

00:18:40   So maybe you need to start being super aggressive about it as a piece of hardware, because you want

00:18:45   people in your services ecosystem and you want to sell these into every home that's got iPhones in

00:18:50   it because it makes the iPhones that much more capable because you can throw the iPhone content

00:18:54   up onto the TV. Um, so like, you know, it is, it is just one of those things that I think,

00:19:00   uh, Apple needs to change how they're thinking about it. And maybe they will, maybe, maybe this

00:19:05   is part of that. The, the Steve Jobs line, right? That the Apple TV was a hobby. Um, that makes

00:19:11   sense. Still makes sense up until the point that the TV service launches. It's not a hobby anymore.

00:19:16   Like everything that Apple has done, everything that Apple has continued to release, even the

00:19:20   Apple TV 4k that we have today, you can look at it and be like, this is the thing they do on the

00:19:24   side, right? Like it's just, here's a little thing. It's a different way to get this content

00:19:28   and blah, blah, blah. Right? Like it's like, Oh, it looks like maybe a fun project that they like

00:19:32   to work on. But then when you start dropping billions of dollars and signing like a-listers

00:19:37   to create TV shows for you, it's not a hobby anymore. You see it as a temp poll of your

00:19:41   business. And if that's the case, you need to tie up the actual tell the home television strategy

00:19:48   a little bit better than you've got because right now that's not the case, right? Like it's fine

00:19:58   with how it is, but you need something more and the iPhone and the iPad, that is not an answer,

00:20:04   right? Like I don't want to watch every show at home on my iPad. I watched them on my iPad

00:20:09   while I'm on a plane, right? Or I watched them maybe when I'm in bed like at night. But if me

00:20:14   and Idina are watching a new big TV series that we love, we're watching it on the TV on our sofa

00:20:19   comfortably, right? With our two home pods playing the sound for us. Like that's what I want to do.

00:20:25   I don't want to watch it on my iPad. So whilst I have an Apple TV and I like my Apple TV,

00:20:30   I don't think that's the right answer for everyone. So we'll see what they're going to do.

00:20:35   If anything. All right, today's show is brought to you in part by Hello. Hello make insanely

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00:23:07   of this show and Relay FM. So we have been talking a lot over the past couple of weeks about the

00:23:16   possibilities, the great possibilities and dreams and hopes that we have for iOS 13, especially as

00:23:23   it pertains to the iPad, right? Yeah. That's a nice way of saying what's missing on the iPad,

00:23:29   but yes, our hearts turn, a nation's eyes turn to iOS 13 to see what it might offer to make the iPad

00:23:37   Pro more functional. Yes. So you put your fingers where your mouth is? Yeah, I don't even know. So

00:23:44   there was a tweet. The story is there was a tweet. As all good stories begin. They begin with a

00:23:49   tweet. There's a million tweets in the Naked City. This is one of them. The reader Myke R. on Twitter

00:23:54   replied to a tweet that I sent out for my review, my Six Colors review of the iPad. And he said,

00:24:04   and I think this is really funny, can we get a David Letterman top 10 iOS 13 iPad features

00:24:10   you'd like to see list a top 10 list of David Letterman for those who do not know, long time

00:24:14   talk show host in the United States, retired now has a Netflix show. Will it come back? I don't

00:24:20   know. I haven't heard anything about that, but great Netflix show. Really good. So, and one of

00:24:24   my favorites, all time, very formative for me. Been watching it. You know, I watched it when I was,

00:24:29   you know, a kid, I through high school and stuff and college. So, and one of his bits was a top 10

00:24:36   list where it would be like a comedy top 10 list. So you have a premise top 10 things we'd like to

00:24:40   see from, you know, whatever. Right. And then there would be 10, 10 counted down to one. There'd

00:24:45   be drum rolls. And it was jokes because it's just, it's comedy. There were, there were jokes. And the

00:24:50   last one would often be completely absurd. That was not the funniest one. Wasn't number one.

00:24:55   That was usually the most absurd one. And anyway, so listener slash reader, Myke R wanted to know

00:25:00   top 10 iPad features. I'd like to see, I very quickly responded to him on Twitter with a top 10

00:25:06   list. And that got a lot of commentary and I thought, well, I should just write an article

00:25:12   like, and it was the easiest article. I wrote that for Mac roll for my macro column last week,

00:25:16   the easiest article I have ever written because I already had done the thinking about the list. So

00:25:22   all I had to do was explain what was on the list and because there were 10 of them, they didn't

00:25:25   have to be long explanations. And so, yes, that's where it started is what, what about the top 10?

00:25:31   And then that got people talking and posted that and people are like, but what about this? But what

00:25:34   about this? But what about this? And I think it turned into a very interesting exercise of sort of

00:25:38   like, what are those features that are, that are missing that we would really like to see?

00:25:41   And I sort of ranked them. I mean, there's room for improvement. I left a couple out that I think

00:25:46   are probably more important than some of the ones I left in, but it was also a personal list. There

00:25:50   are some features that I think are important for a lot of people that were not as important for me.

00:25:54   So I didn't list them. Uh, but yeah, it was a fun exercise. So we will run through the list as you

00:26:00   wrote it. And then at the end, we will address some of the like common, what do you think abouts?

00:26:05   Um, and maybe some of the stuff that was missed off. Yeah. Yeah. I can't believe you didn't

00:26:09   mention there. I got a few of those, so we will cover those too. Number 10 menu bar mode. What is

00:26:16   a menu bar mode on the iPad? Menu bar mode. I, uh, uh, so my, this is a, this is why it's number

00:26:23   10 is it's kind of a dumb idea, but the idea is that if, uh, if developers are converting their

00:26:29   apps using marzipan next year to run on the Mac, what they're going to have to do is things like

00:26:35   define how they work with menu bars and windows and stuff like that. And it got me thinking,

00:26:40   I wonder since they've got all this great external display support on the iPad pro,

00:26:45   if, uh, those same apps running on the iPad pro, maybe they could take advantage of all that extra

00:26:50   information, the menu bar, uh, Mac menu bar information and keyboard shortcuts and all of

00:26:55   that, and kind of enter a mode. That's not turn it into a Mac, but is something that might be more

00:27:00   drivable on an external display, uh, with, uh, you know, either, either like a keyboard and a trackpad

00:27:07   or even using the iPad as a pointing device. Um, it sort of like converts it into something more

00:27:13   like a desktop when it's attached to an external display. Again, number 10, kind of a wacky one that

00:27:20   I actually don't think Apple will ever do because it feels like a bridge too far, but I think they

00:27:25   totally could. And a lot of the feedback I got was surprising in that it was positive, like Steve

00:27:29   Trout and Smith, I think responded to this one. He's like, yeah, they could do way more than that.

00:27:32   Use those marzipan apps. And there was somebody else who said, why do you say this in context of

00:27:36   the iPad? I want to plug in my iPhone to a big monitor and have it enter menu bar mode. And I

00:27:40   said, well, you could do that. That I said, you know, you're ruining my premise now by

00:27:44   saying the iPhone. That's why I didn't mention the iPhone, but yeah, totally. You could. Um,

00:27:48   I don't know. This is, it feels like it's a bridge too far for Apple because Apple seems to have made

00:27:52   some very, uh, drawn some lines that they seem unwilling to erase about what, uh, iOS looks like.

00:27:59   And I think marzipan is, is actually the proof of that. The idea that rather than bring iOS to a

00:28:05   laptop form factor, they've just decided they're going to make the apps go over to the laptop,

00:28:09   but not call it iOS. They're going to call it Mac OS, but it's going to be iOS apps on Mac OS.

00:28:14   And that may be that, that appears to be where they're drawing the line. But still,

00:28:17   I think about the big external drive or device, uh, support the big external display support 4k,

00:28:22   5k displays. And I think you got to do something with that. That isn't just, it's an, you know,

00:28:28   it's a preview of your media, right? Like there's gotta be something more you could do make to make

00:28:33   that more useful. And one way would be to find a way to drive that interface. Uh, and you know,

00:28:38   you can't do that right now on iOS. It's just a mirror or it's an external preview. So something,

00:28:43   maybe menu bar mode is that. If menu bar mode was, or something like that would exist, like when you

00:28:49   plug it in and the interface changes in some way to allow you to maybe use more powerful applications,

00:28:54   use more of them at one time. There are other things that you need to do that and we will get

00:28:58   to those, right? Cause there's some, there's some different things that you would need. Um, but kind

00:29:02   of just, just going back to this a moment, like maybe, maybe right. Like thinking of it as like

00:29:07   menu bar mode is not the right way to think of it. Cause it might just be that like, what is the next

00:29:15   thing? So like you take the Mac and you take the iOS and you smushed them together and then what

00:29:19   comes out, right? Like how does a computer look like that? Right? Like if now you have a really

00:29:24   big screen, you have a 27 inch screen and you have iOS slash Mac OS apps that can run together in the

00:29:31   same place. What does that user interface look like? Right. And maybe they call it desktop mode

00:29:36   or external display mode. If it was a marketing, marketing name for it, I might call it like

00:29:40   desktop mode or something like that. And just say, this is how do you use iOS on a desktop? Well,

00:29:44   here's one way of attaching to an external display. I also don't think it would have like

00:29:48   Mac windows, right? I think it would have, I think we're assuming iOS 13 is going to have some sort of

00:29:53   a different, uh, some spin on multitasking, uh, in, in including running as we'll get to later,

00:29:59   like tabs maybe. But, but whatever it'll be, I think it'll be a more iOS method of running

00:30:04   things in full screen or split view or slide over or tab views or something like that.

00:30:09   But that idea of could we drive this on an external display. And then number nine,

00:30:14   external touch screen support. What does this mean? This would be even better. Uh, and this

00:30:20   would be what if you plugged an iPad or an iPhone, I suppose, into, uh, one of these 4k or 5k displays

00:30:27   that was a touch screen. And I don't know what the standards are, although, you know, if Apple

00:30:34   built its external display with touch multi-touch on it, they, uh, they could do it however they

00:30:41   liked. But the idea of, uh, we keep talking about what if Apple made a surface studio that, you know,

00:30:48   that that's the iMac like product. I was actually at Twit yesterday and Leo Laporte on the set,

00:30:52   he was using the surface studio. Um, and with the, with the side edges and the, actually the shape

00:30:58   of the buttons on it, it looks like an oversized novelty iPad pro 2018. It legitimately, it looks

00:31:04   like a, a, an enormous iPad pro sitting at his desk. But what if Apple doesn't make that? What

00:31:10   if Apple just makes a display, a 4k or 5k display with touch and says, if you want to use this as an

00:31:17   iPad, just plug in an iPad and boom, now you have an iPad that's that size. Why not? And I liked the

00:31:25   thing that you posed as like, well, we know Apple are making monitors again, right? Like what if one

00:31:31   of them was really expensive and it was this, right? So you could attach it to your Mac pro or

00:31:37   your Mac mini or as an external display for your iMac pro, but you could also attach it to your

00:31:41   iPad pro. Oh, I would love that. Wouldn't that be cool? Now there are, there are ergonomic issues

00:31:47   there because like the surface studio has this kind of drafting table kind of mode where it'll

00:31:52   drop way down. It's not like a iMac. That's what I would want, right? Like I would want them to make

00:31:56   that. You kind of need to do it that way. But you know, Apple is not beyond doing something very

00:32:01   similar. And if it wasn't, the thing about the surface studio is it's got a huge foot because

00:32:06   it's got the computer inside and it's got the thin, it's a little bit like the the gooseneck,

00:32:11   the Chrome arm iMac where there's a computer in the base and, and, and then the display is super

00:32:17   thin and light. So Apple doesn't have to do that. Apple needs weight in the base just to keep it

00:32:23   from tipping over, but Apple doesn't have to build a whole computer into it because it's an external

00:32:28   display and that gives them a little bit more freedom. I'm sure they could develop an adjustable

00:32:33   touch screen external display that would work for Mac users, especially if the Mac gets touch

00:32:39   eventually with, especially with marzipan coming in, but certainly for iOS.

00:32:45   So the next thing that you move on to is keyboard shortcuts for function keys. So, you know,

00:32:55   this includes what we were talking about, right? Like what we were missing from the,

00:33:02   the keyboard folio, right, is being able to, that we, one of the things we had on our beloved

00:33:07   bridge keyboards is the ability to change the brightness, playing poor music. You have home,

00:33:12   like you get buttons for the home, uh, to get home. You can use like Siri buttons,

00:33:16   like they're all there and Apple's keyboards don't have that, but it's more than just that, right?

00:33:24   The smart keyboard folio, um, doesn't have that row. And I said in my, you know, I was listening

00:33:31   to ATP and Marco talking about his briefings. I don't generally talk about what happens in

00:33:34   the briefings because they're sort of on background, but I will say this, that I said to

00:33:38   the people I was talking to very specifically, I said, the problem, I said, I like this keyboard.

00:33:42   It's very nice. You not having the function row. I know nobody cares about the function row,

00:33:47   but the function row is where you put all of your media shortcuts, your brightness and volume

00:33:51   shortcuts. And it kills me that you can't, uh, that you can't set as an alternative, set a keyboard

00:34:01   shortcut of your own, uh, for those things so that I can, when I'm using the smart keyboard folio,

00:34:06   and I want to adjust the volume or pause my song or change the brightness on an external

00:34:11   Bluetooth keyboard, I can do that from a key on the iPad. I have to, to reach up and swipe down

00:34:16   from control center and get the control and do it. And it's not as nice. And I will just say my,

00:34:22   the response was essentially, we hear you like it was not, Oh no, no, no, no. That's dumb. Nobody

00:34:29   does that. Right. It was like, we hear you, which is, I don't think that's an endorsement that

00:34:33   they're going to make a change down the road, but I, I, I was impressed that they didn't give

00:34:37   me an impassioned defense of omitting the function key row. I don't need those keys. I really don't,

00:34:42   I don't care that they're gone on the smart keyboard folio, but Apple itself already

00:34:48   retasked them all with things that were more useful than generic function keys.

00:34:53   And, um, and then they omitted them from this keyboard. I know Apple doesn't love the function

00:34:58   row cause they did the touch bar too, but, uh, it would be nice if I had an alternative to that.

00:35:04   And then you can, you can broaden it out from there, but the whole idea that, um, I want there

00:35:09   to be system-wide keyboard shortcuts like this and there could be others. And at that point,

00:35:13   you probably should have them be at least somewhat customizable. You can do that on the Mac today.

00:35:18   I know that risks collisions with, um, with apps, but you know, the Mac handles that today where

00:35:25   if there's a collision, the app wins and that's it. And it's fine. If you have a, an app that

00:35:31   collides with that keyboard shortcut, change the shortcut and just deal with it. If users can

00:35:36   assign it, then it doesn't matter. I would like to see more of that. This is one that is of great

00:35:42   interest to me and you, but maybe not the world at large, but would be wonderful is mature audio

00:35:47   support. Yeah. Yeah. This is, we beat on this a lot, but, uh, the way I boiled it down in,

00:35:54   in my article, and I think this is the way to think of it is we have apps on iOS that can record

00:36:00   audio. Um, and we can run more than one app at a time. In fact, you can run three apps at once with

00:36:07   slide over, but only one app can attach to your microphone at a time. Also, I mean, it goes beyond

00:36:14   that to things like if you have an app that has microphone access or, uh, you're playing music in

00:36:20   the background and then you tap on a video on Twitter, like lots of weird things happen because

00:36:25   iOS kind of wants to only have one thing playing at one time and one app to hatch the microphone

00:36:30   while another app is playing music, the music just stops, which is frustrating. So it's not just

00:36:35   input, it's just a more mature audio platform for iOS. And, uh, this comes up in a bunch of ways. I,

00:36:43   uh, one we'll mention later, um, is the idea that, um, for video conferencing, it's a similar thing

00:36:49   where you kind of have to do that full screen. Uh, somebody pointed out to me, it's like,

00:36:53   it would be really nice if it, you know, video conferencing, I could pop in picture and picture

00:36:57   or run side by side and run other apps and stuff. And it's like a lot of that stuff in a lot of apps

00:37:03   doesn't quite work right because Apple's, uh, Apple has not focused on making this stuff better,

00:37:10   but yes, I would really like it if I could have multiple input devices supported by iOS,

00:37:14   which doesn't exist right now. It's it switches for you. And yes, if I could run a recorder app

00:37:20   and a, uh, uh, uh, video conferencing or audio conferencing app side by side, and both of them

00:37:26   could see the microphone at once. So I could record myself while I was talking to you. That

00:37:30   would be great. It's just not there. Yeah. I mean, iOS seems to have some basic understanding

00:37:36   of multiple audio, right? Like an, like an AirPlay two has shown that, you know, you can be using

00:37:41   AirPlay two to play something and you can also hear audio, right? Like it, it's a thing that

00:37:48   there, there seems to be something, I mean, and I don't know how related or unrelated those things

00:37:52   are, but it's, it's huge. Yeah. Yeah. It's a big step forward on the input side. They haven't taken

00:37:56   this biggest step forward. Some of the apps still kind of like do weird things to your audio. Um,

00:38:02   they have, they have made advances here, but I would like a little bit more. It just,

00:38:05   it feels very much like this was a decision that was made a long time ago.

00:38:08   And it was in a world where only one app ran at a time and the world has changed and this has not

00:38:18   like, we know that audio bus exists, which is this way in iOS to be able to like move,

00:38:24   appli- move audio between multiple applications. But let's just say audio bus has been around for

00:38:28   years and it hasn't really changed anything on iOS in significant ways. This is something that

00:38:33   I got feedback from somebody about who said there already exist these different interfaces that let

00:38:38   apps share audio. It's just that the apps, all the apps that do this video conferencing and audio

00:38:42   conferencing don't support it. And the implication there is that this is Apple's already solved this

00:38:47   problem. It's just the apps faults for not supporting it. And I'd say, well, I think it's

00:38:51   still false on Apple. This could be way easier. Uh, and whatever they're doing now, it's not

00:38:56   working because these apps aren't supporting it. And, uh, one way to make it way easier is to just

00:39:02   let the apps do what they're doing now and have it work. Yeah. Is that the apps don't need to support

00:39:07   it, right? Because that's not how it works on the Mac. Cause you know, Skype is not going to add

00:39:11   audio bus support. It's just not going to happen. I wish it would, but, uh, so, you know, Apple

00:39:16   needs to do something to get all of these audio apps to actually be able to, to interoperate in

00:39:21   a way that an audio bus also was built for, you know, basically music production stuff. And it's

00:39:25   probably overkill for these other apps to implement. Uh, but anyway, yeah, I just, I don't

00:39:32   care how it's done. I just want it to work. And I don't want to have to hope that one day the maker

00:39:39   of an app decides to finally implement it. I would like it to be, uh, something that Apple can do

00:39:44   with the system level to make this basically a no brainer. And developer tools for iOS. I guess

00:39:51   this is like the showing of maturity on the platform, right? Like a platform, I guess is

00:39:56   mature when you can make apps for it on the thing, right? Like you make Mac apps on a Mac, right?

00:40:01   Make iPad apps on the iPad. I mean, that's, that's the, that's the standard line to be a legitimate

00:40:06   computing platform. You've got to develop software on that platform. A lot of people believe that

00:40:10   those people are all software developers. I don't, I don't believe it. Um, I think it's a legitimate

00:40:18   legitimate computing platform now, but I will say yes, it would make lots of sense for Apple to do

00:40:25   some sort of development tool to on iOS. I wonder if it's not Xcode though. I wonder if Apple is

00:40:31   working on some sort of thing that they'll, you know, that'll be a next generation development

00:40:35   tool that runs on Mac and iOS and they keep Xcode around, but there's this thing in it and they kind

00:40:40   of final cut tenet where it's like, this is new and it's going to grow and Xcode is going to be

00:40:45   still around for a while, but we're also going to invest in this and it runs on both platforms and

00:40:49   it will be limited and they won't be able to bring over all their Mac software to, to run it on iOS

00:40:54   or even their iOS software. It'll be, you know, and there'll be complaints and the whole story,

00:40:58   right? I think that might be the approach they take. I think history has shown that that will 100%

00:41:03   be the route that gets taken and it's not a criticism, right? That's just, that's just the way

00:41:08   a lot of this stuff has been going. Like it's what Adobe is doing with Photoshop. They're doing this

00:41:13   exact thing too, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, and, and that'll make everybody nervous because

00:41:19   people who rely on Xcode, they're like, what do you mean you've got a new development tool? What

00:41:22   about Xcode? And I think the answer will be Xcode's not going anywhere for a very long time on the Mac.

00:41:26   But we're also going to invest in this new thing that is on the Mac and iOS and that is sort of the

00:41:33   future development environment. And it's the, you know, the next generation developer environment.

00:41:39   They could also just do Xcode for iOS, but I just, my gut feeling is that that's an old piece of

00:41:44   software and that may be their solution when they introduce a lot of rumors about them introducing

00:41:48   a bunch of new development features and ways of building apps in a future version of the OS's.

00:41:55   I wonder if this is all connected. I'm trying to connect some dots here. So yes, I am in an

00:41:59   evidence dungeon with a bunch of yarn connecting different scraps of paper and like, let's figure

00:42:04   it out. People let's go through the rabbit hole here, but it does sort of feel like maybe this

00:42:08   is an opportunity for Apple to kind of say, here's a whole story about what we're doing with the

00:42:13   future of Apple platform development. And it includes, and that, that story has to include

00:42:19   iOS as a, as a place where you do your development. It can't just be a target. And, and, uh, uh, so

00:42:26   yes, even though I'm not a developer and kind of don't care from a professional level about like

00:42:32   the ability to develop on my iPad pro, cause I'm not going to do that. I think it does need to

00:42:36   happen at some point. And I would like to see Apple start to move in that direction because it

00:42:40   sends a signal, right? It's like the iPad pro it's so powerful. You can develop software on it. Like

00:42:44   that that's important. Send the message. We're halfway through the top 10 list,

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00:44:55   of this show and Relay FM. So, uh, item number five, external pointing devices.

00:45:04   Yeah, I feel like I've talked about this one a lot, but it's the same thing. I mentioned that I think

00:45:09   external pointing devices have use on iOS and then everybody goes, no iOS, don't you know the rule is

00:45:15   that there are no pointing devices on iOS and there are no cursors. It's different. And it, you know,

00:45:20   not to, well, I already did. I already gave them a little bit of a funny voice there, but not to,

00:45:25   not to repel these complaints, but I feel like, uh, first off it's, it's the worst kind of, uh,

00:45:32   Steve jobs told us what this product was eight years ago and therefore it must always be that

00:45:36   way. It kind of like came down from the mountain top kind of dogma that it's just like, no wrong.

00:45:42   I don't care. I don't care what they thought about this product eight years ago. Let's talk about

00:45:45   2018. Everybody knows Jason, Steve jobs never changed his mind. Yeah. Well, and it kills me

00:45:50   too because I get it from the other side too, where I talk about the Apple pencil and there

00:45:54   are people like, Oh, a stylist. I thought you didn't need those, which is not what Steve

00:45:57   jobs said about that either. But anyway, it wasn't about the iPad and it was about like whatever.

00:46:03   And it was about requiring a stylist instead of making it optional. But anyway, that's not,

00:46:08   that's already in there. That, that support that they said they would never, ever, ever,

00:46:12   ever come to iOS. Of course it did with the Apple pencil. So, um, external point is to what I'm not

00:46:17   asking for. And what I think a lot of people think when I talk about this is a little black

00:46:21   arrow that I can slide around on the screen between windows and turn my iPad into a Mac.

00:46:26   That's not what I want, but first off the genies out of the bottle, the, uh, editing text. There

00:46:31   was a whole raft of stories last week where people were blown away by the fact that you can use a,

00:46:36   uh, text cursor on iOS by 3d touch or, uh, by touch and hold on the, on the space bar. Um,

00:46:43   which is a thing we've talked about a lot, but is not super discoverable and therefore people are

00:46:49   still surprised by it. And it is great. And it's been in there for a while. Like Apple has a cursor

00:46:53   that you can move around on screen. It's already there. So the idea of having a cursor is already

00:47:00   an iOS for text editing where it's very useful. That's why they did it. And I would like that

00:47:05   for an external device that like a track pad that I could keep at the same plane as my keyboard.

00:47:10   So I don't have to reach up to the display to edit text. And the other thing that I use my

00:47:15   Mac's trackpad for that I'd like to on iOS is a multi-touch gestures, because again,

00:47:21   I have them on my iPad, but my iPad is up there and I'm down here on the keyboard. And I'd really

00:47:26   be able to like to be able to reach under or beside my keyboard and swipe to another app or

00:47:32   bring up multitasking with a, um, you know, a multi-finger gesture like I do on my Mac. Um,

00:47:38   and so I could, I could totally use an external device like the Apple pencil. It doesn't need to

00:47:43   be required, but wouldn't it be nice if there was a whole new round of, uh, of, of external

00:47:50   kind of keyboard accessories for iPad that also had a little track pad that you could use to edit

00:47:56   text or swipe between apps or whatever, without leaving your hand. Scrolling stuff all the time,

00:48:04   right? Like when I, when I'm sitting in keyboard mode, it's optimized for my hands on the keys,

00:48:08   but I still have to reach up and like swipe through a webpage. Well, I would love to be

00:48:13   able to just move my hand to the right slightly or down and, and do a two finger scroll and swipe

00:48:18   through that webpage. So I'm not saying it's super easy and there are like lots of complications with

00:48:22   it. And I don't think it would be a mainstream use. I think it would be a, you know, a small

00:48:26   productive subset. Like the keyboard is not a mainstream use, I would say, but I would,

00:48:30   I want it. I want it. Call it a pro user feature. It could be a pro feature. It could be. And then

00:48:36   if you're using, if you're using a video editor or an audio editor or all sorts of other applications,

00:48:41   now you've got this touch surface at the keyboard level that lets you do some swiping and scrolling

00:48:46   that you otherwise have to kind of like go back and forth between the keyboard and the screen.

00:48:49   And that's not as good. I will say like, I know what you mean about saying about the cursor, but

00:48:55   I do think that if there is an ultimate option, like if something that is being encouraged is that

00:49:00   we start plugging our iPads into 4k displays, I do think trying to find a way to, to have a cursor on

00:49:07   screen would be interesting. I think it is not an impossibility. That's menu bar mode, right? That's

00:49:13   maybe a little bit different, but yeah, I think in, in a, in a mode like that, I mean, you almost,

00:49:17   you would have to have this to do menu bar mode. And the cursor doesn't have to be the little black

00:49:22   arrow, right? Like it could be a circle, which is almost the size of a human finger, right? And then

00:49:26   you just use that. And that's just how it works. I guess. I don't love the idea of having a virtual

00:49:31   finger that you move around with a track pad. I don't, I don't love that idea. Um, I'd be okay

00:49:35   with an iOS that, that works with gestures and has cursors in very specific contexts, um, with

00:49:41   external pointing devices. I would love your thing. I'm just saying, I don't think it is a,

00:49:45   it's not the worst thing in the world to, to, to assume some kind of cursor, you know, cause it's

00:49:50   like there are other platforms, right? Like Chromebooks and windows, they find a way to

00:49:54   make these things coexist. I think it is not impossible. It's maybe not the most elegant thing,

00:49:59   but it might be interestingly usable over time. We'll see. And number four, I think, uh, upgrade

00:50:05   listeners, keen upgrade listeners know your feelings on this one, uh, pro apps on iOS.

00:50:11   Yes. I ranted about this last time. So we'll just say, um, Apple one way Apple shows that it's

00:50:18   believes in its own platform as a pro platform. Yes. The developer tools is one way bringing its

00:50:23   other professional tools like final cut and logic to the iPad is another way Adobe's doing it with

00:50:28   Photoshop. I think it is. Yeah. I mean, it's, I already, I already ranted about it, so I won't

00:50:34   rant again other than to say that I think it is, uh, I think that Apple needs to do just to show

00:50:42   that it's taking the pro market on the iPad seriously, even if it's impractical, even if the,

00:50:49   uh, they won't have as many users for it, at least at first, like there are lots of excuses.

00:50:55   I had somebody say, well, you can't use logic on an 11 inch screen. And I thought I used logic on

00:51:00   an 11 inch MacBook air for years. So I know, I think they just need to do it to say, yes,

00:51:05   we are there to pro apps are real and they run great on iPad pro. I think they need to do it.

00:51:11   That's not necessarily an iOS feature, although maybe they need to update iOS to do it. I would

00:51:14   imagine it will come in conjunction with an iOS release, but maybe not, but still it's on my list.

00:51:19   Number three, additions to shortcuts. So I was thinking, you talk about those

00:51:24   keyboard shortcuts earlier. Wouldn't it be lovely to activate shortcuts, shortcuts with

00:51:29   keyboard shortcuts. It would be so great. I want keyboard access for shortcuts everywhere so that

00:51:35   I can run a shortcut without having to open the share menu and tap shortcuts. Um, I also want them

00:51:42   to truly run in the background. So I don't have to see every step running. Um, that happens in

00:51:48   Siri and it haps happens in the, uh, the today view in notification center. Um, they run there

00:51:56   without showing you all the steps. I would like it to run optionally other places without showing

00:52:00   those steps. So I could do a keyboard shortcut and it could say running shortcut, do, do, do, do,

00:52:04   done. Right. I would love to be able to do that. It does tie in with my idea of system wide

00:52:08   shortcuts, although the way the Mac does it, you can also apply shortcuts in particular apps.

00:52:13   Okay. If we want to do that, that's fine. And then the other part of this, uh, and it's something

00:52:17   that you and I have talked about a lot is, um, scheduling shortcuts, having the ability to say,

00:52:22   run the shortcut at 8.00 AM every day, tying it in with an alarm or having it be an alarm.

00:52:27   I was thinking HomeKit, you could tie it into HomeKit automations as well as another option.

00:52:32   Like alarms is great, but like this, it's another one, right? Like you have your good morning

00:52:36   shortcut. Why not just have that trigger with your automation or whatever, you know, like with your,

00:52:41   with your HomeKit automation is it's another way to potentially do it. Um, but it would be great,

00:52:46   right? Like this is, I genuinely feel like these types of things, these additions to shortcuts

00:52:52   are one of the more likely things because shortcuts is super powerful and they hadn't been

00:52:58   working on it for that long, you know, inside of Apple. And they did a lot of really interesting

00:53:02   stuff. This is the integration with iOS that I'm talking about here, but there are lots of other

00:53:06   ways. Um, Etienne Bueno in the chat room said it would be nice if there was an undo, undo gesture

00:53:11   and shortcuts. Yes. You should also be able to copy individual items and whole sets of items

00:53:16   and duplicate them or paste them elsewhere in the shortcuts. And of course, as Federico

00:53:21   Fidici will tell you at the drop of a hat, um, folders for shortcuts so that they're not all in

00:53:26   one giant scrolling list would also be nice. There are app improvements that need to be made with

00:53:31   shortcuts, but I also want it to be better integrated system-wide. Yes. Uh, we don't really

00:53:37   need to talk about number two anymore than we already have, but external storage in the files

00:53:41   app. Like it's such a gimme. My elevator pitch is basically, look, some people in some context

00:53:48   still need to read files off a drive or connect to a file server in their office or home. Um,

00:53:56   and you've got an app called files and you've got a USB-C device. You have a standard connector now.

00:54:04   Just, just make it happen. Just make it happen. Like it is, it is the one that boggles my mind

00:54:09   only because it could think of how much criticism they could have avoided in the arguments of not a

00:54:15   real computer. If they had been able to ship that feature before they shipped the new iPad Pro,

00:54:21   but they didn't, you know, the thing is, so Jason, it would have just been something else.

00:54:25   It would have been, but that would, that was, that was an easy, that was the easiest target

00:54:32   and they could have removed it and they didn't. And as we mentioned earlier, if you're following

00:54:38   along, the David Letterman style lists, the number one always was some kind of joke. So that's worth

00:54:43   bearing in mind. They were all jokes, but the most absurd and not necessarily funny joke was the

00:54:49   number one. And so for my list, I put number one, youmoji. Like we had animoji and we had memoji.

00:54:56   What about youmoji? Would this be that you would replace your friend's face with, with an

00:55:02   animoji because you don't want to see their face? I don't know. Whatever. It's just a joke. I don't

00:55:11   need this one. I'll take the other nine. But there's a bunch we didn't mention. So this is,

00:55:15   so there was one that I put in our document too, which is one we've spoken about in the past,

00:55:19   which I was surprised didn't make it to your list actually, because I know you care about this so

00:55:23   much. A desktop class Safari browser. Yeah, I think this is, it's complicated. This is the

00:55:30   reason that I didn't want to get into it in the article, but it's complicated because some of this

00:55:36   is on the web developers because web developers are sensing an iOS browser and serving a light

00:55:42   version of a page. Some of it is on the complications of the assumptions that you make

00:55:46   as a web developer, that there's a pointing device with hover states and, you know, all mouse click

00:55:51   states that are not ones that exist on a touch screen. And so they have to provide this alternate

00:55:58   view and they're basically doing it for phones. And the iPad is sort of stuck in the middle.

00:56:02   Trackpad mode could do this.

00:56:04   Right. Right. So that's possible. Also, Apple could find other ways. I think Apple could

00:56:11   find ways to make this more palatable. And the reason we want this is because there's some web

00:56:16   apps that should run fine on iPad and they don't because they're broken because they are serving

00:56:23   this weird mobile version. And if Safari was given the charter on iOS, that it should be at least

00:56:29   able to run desktop level stuff. Maybe it's a setting, maybe it's for certain sites. There

00:56:36   are lots of ways you could do it, but a lot of times you run into a situation where you need to

00:56:41   open a webpage on an iOS device and it doesn't work right. And I don't, you know, but why? Like

00:56:49   all the power is there, but it's being served strangely. You know, there are browsers that

00:56:55   will pose as computer browsers and sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't. But I feel like this

00:57:01   is something, this is a problem that Apple needs to try to solve. And if some of that is by making

00:57:07   changes to the software that make it a more complicated world for web developers, so web

00:57:11   developers have to pay attention, or if they just have to fake it and just pretend they're a Mac

00:57:16   running Safari and do some stuff in the background to make it all kind of work right,

00:57:20   or make that mode optional, whatever it is, this is a frustration because sometimes there are apps

00:57:25   that are not as full featured as the web app. So you need to go to the web app or there is no app

00:57:29   for something and you have to use the web app. And when you try, you realize I literally can't

00:57:34   do this thing on my iPad because of the way that the website is built. Which is really annoying.

00:57:42   It's super annoying. Running iPhone apps in landscape.

00:57:46   Somebody tweeted this in and it's totally true. If you run an app that's not universal so it

00:57:51   doesn't support the iPad, it insists on running it in portrait orientation.

00:57:55   And it runs in like some, like iPhone SE mode or something.

00:58:00   Yeah, and then blown up. It's not good. So I know that Apple doesn't want to make iPhone app

00:58:06   compatibility a priority because they want to shame the developers of these apps.

00:58:12   But I have a couple that I have to run and I run them on my iPad and I go, oh,

00:58:18   like it's, they're just so bad. So just, you know, have pity on the poor iPad user. We use our,

00:58:24   our devices in horizontal orientation a lot. Uh, please let that be okay.

00:58:29   So like Instagram is obviously a big one. And I, I was just saying,

00:58:34   I mentioned it because it is something strange. I saw something strange a couple of days ago.

00:58:38   So like Instagram, their app is so bad. Like the iOS app is like, you know,

00:58:43   the iPhone app is so bad on the iPad. Like it's not, it's almost not worth using at all.

00:58:47   Instagram, I don't, I just, I just use the website.

00:58:51   Yeah. Instagram has a not bad website, right? And like you can use the website,

00:58:56   but I was like playing around with it. I was like, what can, what can you do

00:58:59   with the website version? And you can apparently add to your Instagram story. And I was like,

00:59:06   that's strange. So I pressed the button and it said, you have to rotate your device to portrait.

00:59:12   And I was like, this is so weird, but yeah, you rotate your device to portrait and you can take

00:59:17   pictures with the iPhone's camera on the Instagram website. And it's just like these things of like,

00:59:21   why did you make this Instagram, but you don't have an iPad app. Why did you put so much effort

00:59:28   into your website, even allowing you to take pictures from devices on the website,

00:59:35   you don't have an iPad app. It's very peculiar to me, very peculiar.

00:59:40   Better video conferencing support. I mean, I, you kind of referenced this, but I don't really

00:59:45   understand what the issues are here. Cause I guess I don't do a lot of video conferencing.

00:59:49   The impression I, so I heard about this from a reader and, um, I think the idea there is he said,

00:59:54   not just audio, it's video too. I have these video conference apps that insist on being full screen.

00:59:58   And it's, again, it's one of these kind of legacies where they're insisting on being full screen.

01:00:02   Now this is an example where I don't know whether that is just an app that has decided to

01:00:06   ban multitasking, um, or whether they are doing that or are forced to do that because of the way

01:00:12   the video and audio subsystems of iOS work. I don't know, but given the complexities of audio stuff,

01:00:19   it may be that they're like, no, no, no, we don't want other apps running.

01:00:23   But his frustration is he wants to have his office video conferencing app open side by side with like

01:00:28   a document. And he says that at least with the apps that they use, uh, they can't do that. So

01:00:33   I just wanted to kind of throw that in there as yes, this is a thing that, that the iPad needs

01:00:38   to be better at is like, you should be better at doing anything you need to do in multitasking.

01:00:43   You know, if multitasking is good, some people want to do stuff in multitasking,

01:00:48   having an app that forces you out of multitasking is not good.

01:00:51   So then as an advancement to multitasking, we could be looking at tabbed app instances. And this

01:00:59   is like a thing that I keep seeing people like Steve Troutsmith talking about. Um, I think Steve

01:01:04   thinks that this is not only a good way for it to go, but believes that this is the way the iOS 13

01:01:10   will go. So this is like, if you imagine looking at different web pages in Safari or Chrome and you

01:01:15   have tabs, well, imagine that you were using Google docs and you had tabs in Google docs,

01:01:20   and you could mix those instances all up together. And that could be a way that you

01:01:25   will allow applications to have multiple instances running and stuff like that.

01:01:28   What do you think of that? It's complicated to get your head around, I think.

01:01:32   Yeah, I think so the basic version of this is apps should be able to think of it as opening

01:01:39   multiple windows, like on, on a Mac apps can open multiple windows on the iOS. You really can't do

01:01:46   that. Although Safari does it, you can have two Safari windows running side by side. And so the

01:01:53   idea there is let this happen again. Does it mail do it too?

01:01:56   Does it? I think it has a version of split screen in mail on iOS.

01:02:03   I don't know. Or if that's just multiple panes. Anyway, so the point here is let other apps do

01:02:08   it, have this be a system wide function. Um, I think this has the, the assumption everybody's

01:02:12   making here is that that's going to go along with the marzipan stuff. Like you're going to have to

01:02:17   have the ability on the Mac to potentially have multiple windows open. How do you reference that

01:02:21   on iOS? And the answer is you could have tabs or you could have at least a side by side kind of

01:02:27   thing. There are other uses here too. Like the flexibility this gives you. Yes. It means that I

01:02:31   can run Microsoft word with two docs side by side. It also means that I could have like Safari and

01:02:36   another app open in split view, but also have a different Safari view in slide over. Let's say

01:02:42   like that could be cool. Like again, not for every use, but it increases the flexibility of the

01:02:48   OS to have all the apps be able to tap into this. And yes, beyond that, you start to say,

01:02:52   how do you deal with lots of different apps running in different places? Maybe there's a tab

01:02:58   tab interface where the tabs are different apps. Um, I'm not sure Apple wants to go there. That's

01:03:03   a very different interface approach from iOS today, but, uh, you know, but who knows, but

01:03:08   something like that at the very least, we all, I think want to see the ability for apps to have

01:03:13   multiple instances running at once. And something that I hear people talk about quite a lot is,

01:03:20   um, multiple user logins. Yeah. And I heard about this from a bunch of people. Um, it's not a

01:03:27   feature that I care about because I don't share my iPad pro with the rest of my family, but there are

01:03:33   a lot of people who do. I think Apple's argument is like, you know, this is, this is a pro product,

01:03:38   but the reality is people share these devices and at a thousand dollars, uh, people are going to

01:03:42   share these devices. Still, they're not going to just say, no, no, no. Uh, this one's expensive.

01:03:48   Nobody else can use it. A lot of people, these are iPads or shared devices. iPhones are personal

01:03:51   devices. Dan Morin wrote a thing in Mac world last week about it. Um, and he made a point,

01:03:56   like it goes beyond the iPad. Like there are assumptions Apple makes about one device for

01:04:01   one person that work on the iPhone and that start to break down with the iPad and with the home pod

01:04:07   and a little bit with the Apple TV. But I think the home pod is another great example where

01:04:10   it doesn't recognize different people. It will only tie to one Apple ID. If you have one Apple ID

01:04:16   because it doesn't recognize other people and you turn personalized like music suggestions on,

01:04:20   then everything, everybody uses that home pod is now feeding data into your personal account,

01:04:25   which I had to turn that off. Cause I'm like, wait a second. I don't want the random songs

01:04:29   my daughter plays to be influencing my for you data on, on my Apple music. Like I'm not,

01:04:35   I don't want that. I want to keep my data, the, the stuff that I'm playing. Um, and it just,

01:04:40   it has no way of doing that. Um, I, I think this all goes together, which is Apple has to deal with

01:04:45   this idea of devices that are shared and how does it go? We got face ID, can face ID do multiple,

01:04:51   uh, multiple views. Cause that would be the nice way to do it is to have your face ID, like,

01:04:56   like touch ID actually, uh, on max, uh, detect who you are and log you into your user. But that adds

01:05:05   all this complexity of having a logged in and logged out state. But I heard from a lot of people

01:05:10   who say they really, really want this cause they want to be able to use their iPad and then like

01:05:13   flip it into a different mode where their kids can use it. And they only have, you know, they don't

01:05:17   have access to their emails and stuff like that. It's just the kids stuff. And, um, I get it,

01:05:23   I get it. That's a hard problem to solve and Apple has not shown a lot of interest in solving it,

01:05:28   but they have had some sort of version of this in education for a couple of years now. And, uh,

01:05:35   I think it's worth mentioning as, uh, potentially being on the list.

01:05:39   That's some great items in there and I would love to see a big chunk of these.

01:05:44   Let's see what we get in 2019. All right. It's time for some hashtag

01:05:50   Ask upgrade questions. Today's Ask upgrade is brought to you by Simple Contacts.

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01:08:02   to Simple Contacts for their support of this show and really FM. All right, Jason, #askupgrade

01:08:10   questions. Thank you very much. Jacob wants to know, or maybe Jacob. I'm going to go with Jacob,

01:08:16   though. Do you guys set up your iPad just like your iPhone or do you do it completely different?

01:08:22   Jacob Tucker Totally different.

01:08:24   Jason Tucker Totally different, right? Totally different.

01:08:26   Now, Jacob said that he did it differently and now was trying it with his iPhone and it made

01:08:31   more sense to him. And I understand that. You know, if that's your thing, because like consistency,

01:08:35   but like I think of these devices as two completely different things. I mean, even down to the fact

01:08:41   that the dock on the iPhone is four apps. The dock on the iPad is like 12, right? Like that's

01:08:46   completely different at that point. Jacob Tucker

01:08:48   Yeah. Yeah, it's completely different. I have some of the apps on my first page of my home screen are

01:08:53   the same. Most of them are not. Lots of apps. Jason Tucker

01:08:56   Yeah, like I have some devices that I don't like. I have apps on my iPhone. I don't have apps on,

01:09:01   but I don't have the same apps on my iPad and vice versa, right? Like I have the apps that I need on

01:09:06   each device. And I will say that I set both of my iPads up practically identically. You know, I do

01:09:13   it manually and I try and keep those relatively the same. Like for example, the 12.9 inch iPad

01:09:20   Pro I think can have one or two extra apps in the dock than the 11. But I don't put that extra app

01:09:28   in on the 12.9. Jacob Tucker

01:09:28   I think it's really small. I think it gets really small.

01:09:30   Jason Tucker It gets really small, but it would mess up my

01:09:32   brain. I do put basically the minimum minus one in there. And I also have a folder too, where I have

01:09:39   a bunch of little utilities that I frequently use in multitasking. I pop that in there too.

01:09:44   Jim wants to know if Myke is still using Gboard. I am still using Gboard on my iPhone. I'll tell

01:09:52   you why. The two reasons, three reasons I use Gboard and continue to use it. One, emoji search.

01:09:59   You can search for emoji in Gboard. Two, swipe typing. I use swipe typing an awful lot. Helps me

01:10:05   use my phone with one hand. It's really awesome. Three, the dictionary, the auto correction.

01:10:11   That is better for me on Gboard for a couple of reasons. One, I just find that it gives me better

01:10:17   results. And two, I think that they use some Google search stuff. You know, so like if I type in

01:10:22   Pokemon, the options right now come up to say, let's go. They're like the two things I can tap

01:10:28   because I think Google is a little bit aware of the zeitgeisty stuff that's happening.

01:10:32   So they kind of tailor the dictionary for that. It's what I believe is going on because I see

01:10:37   this stuff happen quite a lot. I will recommend if you want to try Gboard on your iPhone,

01:10:43   I don't use it on my iPad because the keyboard is not very good on the iPad. If you want to try it

01:10:48   on your iPhone, you need to get rid of the other keyboard. You have to go all in. So you're used to

01:10:57   it. So you understand all the limitations. You understand that sometimes when you have to enter

01:11:01   passwords, you won't get your auto correct, right? It's going to give you the regular keyboard. You

01:11:06   really need to understand it so you can really try it out. So you add this keyboard and then when you

01:11:11   go back into keyboard settings, once you've added a second keyboard, you can actually delete the,

01:11:17   say like, United Kingdom or American English or whatever keyboard you can remove it. Apple standard

01:11:22   keyboard can go. And then you have just Gboard. So if you want to try it, I really recommend going

01:11:28   all in on it for like a week. And if it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work for you, but

01:11:31   it really works for me. I'm a big fan of it. They've gotten way better updating it as well,

01:11:37   right? Like they have like the new emoji. When there's new emoji, they have it in a couple of

01:11:41   days now. And it used to take a long time, but I think that team is pretty focused. So they seem

01:11:46   to get the updates out quick. Yep. I use it too. Not all the time, but a lot of the time. I have

01:11:52   both now. There were some really weird cases where the, where Gboard was quitting and I was left with

01:11:56   no keyboard. So I totally happens. It crashes sometimes. But I do use it a lot. And there are

01:12:02   moments where for whatever reason, I'm getting very frustrated with typing out things where

01:12:07   I will, I don't, I don't swipe type all the time, but there are, I will go through periods where I

01:12:12   do because I'm frustrated that, you know, or I need to get something out really fast with lots

01:12:17   of words in it. And the swipe typing is much better at that. Yeah. Like this is what I'm

01:12:21   saying about like go all in. So you understand the frustrations. Sometimes the keyboard crashes,

01:12:25   but there's a couple of things, right? So like all of the stuff with the quick type bar. So like the

01:12:29   two factor authentication codes, the new password stuff in iOS 12, you still get all of that. Like

01:12:36   that actually is like a separate thing. It still exists when you have a third party keyboard. So

01:12:40   you don't lose out on that awesome functionality. So it's worth bearing in mind. Um, that's because

01:12:45   by the way, when you go into a password field, uh, iOS flips you out to the standard keyboard.

01:12:52   So you still get all those, that functionality, which is really great. Mattias asks,

01:12:57   it's not really practical for me to use an iPad as a laptop replacement in part because of the

01:13:02   strict requirements of the app store. Do you think Apple will ever let you install unverified apps

01:13:06   on iOS? Do you think they need to, uh, no and no. Yeah, I think that's exactly it. And I would,

01:13:12   I would actually rephrase this question. Um, I don't think that, I mean, unless you're saying

01:13:21   it's not practical for me to use an iPad because I want to run BitTorrent and BitTorrent apps are

01:13:26   banned from the app store or something like that, but like Apple's requirements, like,

01:13:30   I don't think that that's a good enough excuse in most cases. I think that Apple has started,

01:13:35   uh, you know, there's, they have opened up a lot in the app store and the stuff that is not allowed,

01:13:41   you know, I will say this, that if there is a development tool for that runs on the iPad,

01:13:48   that is going to enable people to do what they do now, which is, you know, do on the iPad running

01:13:53   a custom build of something that you download from GitHub and you run it and it's just for you.

01:13:57   There'll be more of that. Perhaps you can do that now with downloading things for Xcode and then

01:14:03   installing them on your device. There, there are ways, but not to distribute them more widely and,

01:14:08   and more easily. And I agree with you, Myke. Um, it's never going to happen. Like a complete

01:14:13   sideloading of iOS apps. No, I just don't think it's ever going to happen. Yeah. They're not going

01:14:18   to do it. And I don't think they need to either. Right. Like, and I think, you know, the best,

01:14:23   the best example of this is like what they've tried to do and kind of, I think mostly failed,

01:14:27   um, on the Mac with like sandboxing stuff, like that was their attempt to trying to

01:14:31   close up that system a little bit more by being able to offer the greatness of the Mac app store,

01:14:38   but turns out just didn't work really well. And what they're trying to do now with the Mac app

01:14:43   store, I think is, is indicative of what they would do with the iOS app store, which is if

01:14:48   there's a need, they will find ways to rather than just let you sideload. They're going to find ways

01:14:53   to create entitlements for apps that are get that grant them more access. And that entitlement has

01:15:01   to be improved. Like the best example that doesn't come people who argue this don't talk about is

01:15:07   CarPlay. Where like, you can't just write a CarPlay app. Apple has to actually approve,

01:15:13   especially your ability to access CarPlay. And they only do it for a very limited number of apps.

01:15:19   There are not very many CarPlay apps. And one of the reasons that that is true is not because

01:15:24   people aren't trying it's because Apple won't let you. And so, you know, if it turns out there's a

01:15:28   real need for a certain kind of access, Apple doesn't have to give that access to everybody.

01:15:33   They can say this is a specific entitlement and only certain apps will be granted it. And every

01:15:37   other app that tries to use it will be rejected. And I think more of that is more likely in the

01:15:42   future across all of Apple's platforms, but including iOS. That if there's a need and

01:15:47   developers are like, we can't make this whole class of apps because of this. I think Apple's

01:15:51   going to be more open to the idea of saying, all right, maybe there's a way for us to do that.

01:15:56   What they're not going to do is say, sure, go ahead. They're going to say, we spent a year and

01:16:00   built this whole structure for this particular entitlement. And now you can ask for it.

01:16:05   - Design Station asks, do you guys do a local backup of iTunes purchases like music,

01:16:11   TV shows and movies? It seems that with iTunes cloud integration, it's no longer necessary.

01:16:17   What are your thoughts on this? - I don't do any local backups,

01:16:20   period. I don't do a local backup of my device in any way. Certainly not for media. And I don't

01:16:25   do local backups of the device. No, it's all in iCloud. I'm not interested in using iTunes. The

01:16:30   only thing I use iTunes for in relation to iOS these days is that I will use it to get to the

01:16:36   file transfer stuff so I can transfer across a wire, big audio files. But that's about it.

01:16:41   Otherwise it's in the cloud. That's it. - So my thing is like, if I have something

01:16:47   downloaded on my iMac, it will be backed up by Time Machine, I guess, but I don't download

01:16:52   anything on my iMac. So like, no. I even treat my iTunes purchases as streaming purchases.

01:17:00   If I buy an iTunes TV series, it very rarely is downloaded anywhere. Like I'm just playing it

01:17:07   whenever I want it. - Unless I'm going on a trip or

01:17:09   something. - Exactly. I understand why people say this because I know that weird rights changes,

01:17:18   which has happened, can remove files. - Yeah, but those stories go around and

01:17:24   they're generally errors. The stories generally turn out to be mistakes because if you buy

01:17:29   something and then it goes off sale in the iTunes store, whether it's an app or a piece of music or

01:17:34   a movie or a TV show, generally you still get it. People who bought it still get it. It stays on the

01:17:41   servers. You can still download it. New people can't buy it. And when you hear those stories,

01:17:46   they're like, "Oh, I bought this thing and then Apple just made it disappear and they didn't care."

01:17:49   That happened a few months ago and it turned out it was a mistake. It was a bug. It was not

01:17:55   Apple trying to take your movie away that you bought.

01:17:57   - I imagine that even, let's say that they did do it, right? Like there was something that got

01:18:03   removed at some point. I don't think having a backup of it is going to help you, right?

01:18:07   - I don't know if it's a DRM. - Because you would have seen

01:18:08   it as DRM check-in. - Yes, yeah. If it's a

01:18:11   DRM-wrapped backup, maybe, but I just don't think that this is...

01:18:15   - No. - Anyway, to answer the question,

01:18:17   I'm not going to guarantee it 100% of the time, but I do not download media from Apple unless I'm

01:18:22   going on a trip and I want it on my iPad on a plane. And I don't backup my devices.

01:18:26   - Most certainly do it as a backup. I just treat Apple's store as my backup.

01:18:32   - Well, it's not even my backup. It's my repository for the media I buy from Apple.

01:18:38   My iCloud backup is a backup, but my media stuff, it's just, that's where that stuff lives.

01:18:44   - But I will also just say, I try everything I can to not buy media now. I prefer to stream,

01:18:52   right? I don't buy music. I stream my music. I only ever buy TV shows and movies when they're

01:19:00   not on a streaming service I pay for. And they're the only types of media that I do buy now.

01:19:04   Because I just prefer to stream and I figure there's always going to be a streaming service

01:19:09   around. And if the streaming service I use goes away, I'll just move to another one.

01:19:13   I don't really think, especially music, and for lots of video content, I just don't really

01:19:21   think of owning it anymore. It's just not really how I think of it. I pay what I consider to be a

01:19:26   relatively small amount of money for the amount of new stuff that I consume. If I bought everything

01:19:32   that I consumed, it would be a lot more money than my streaming bills cost me. Right? Can you

01:19:38   imagine that? If I paid for all the albums that I listen to these days, I'd be paying a lot of money

01:19:48   every month. A lot more than my $10 or whatever that I pay for with Apple Music.

01:19:55   If you have a question that you would like to submit for a later episode, you can just send

01:20:01   them in with the hashtag #AskUpgrade. And thank you to everybody that has done that today.

01:20:07   We do have one more wonderful segment today, and that is going to be our discussion of the movie

01:20:12   My Neighbor Totoro. But before we get to that, let me thank our final sponsor for today's show,

01:20:18   and that is the fine folk over at Luna Display. Have you ever looked at your iPad and wished you

01:20:24   could use it as a second display for your Mac? That's what Luna Display will let you do. Your

01:20:28   iPad is a beautiful display. That's what it is. All iPad screens are wonderful, and everybody

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01:21:36   and promo code UPGRADE at checkout. I say listener of the show Brent sent in a video that he took

01:21:42   showing him using the Luna Display the other day, which I thought was awesome, to airdrop a file

01:21:47   from the Mac to his iPad. It's like, "Oh, that's nice." Right? Because you're able to do that with

01:21:54   the Luna Display. I thought that was really, really cool. Our thanks to Luna Display for

01:21:57   their support of this show and Relay FM. So, my neighbor Totoro. So, why did you choose this

01:22:05   movie for me, Jason? Uh, it is a beloved movie in my house and across the world. It is from the

01:22:12   80s, which is sort of what we try to stick with with our, uh... This movie is as old as me, 1988.

01:22:18   Yes, um, it is, well, I just turned to dust and blew away. Um, and although the, as my daughter

01:22:26   asked me, um, when, uh, because we usually watch the, uh, the dub version, uh, rather than the

01:22:34   Japanese with English subtitles, the dub is from 2006. Right. So, the movie is from '88, but it has

01:22:41   actors in it that are like, "Well, that person wasn't alive in '88." But the mainstream English

01:22:47   dub version that's out there these days is from 2006. The movie's from '88. I first saw it,

01:22:54   I don't know, probably, yeah, 2008, 2010, 2012. It was not that long ago that I... So, it seems

01:23:00   more recent to me than it actually is. And I think for most Americans, that's probably true because

01:23:06   I think our understanding of Hayao Miyazaki, the brilliant Japanese animation director,

01:23:13   uh, in America, he went mainstream a little bit later than, you know, he was a huge star in Japan.

01:23:20   So, um, as I like to do with these movies, to tell you what I knew and thought before

01:23:25   about My Neighbor Totoro, I knew it was a beloved movie. I even wrote beloved movie,

01:23:30   and you said beloved movie, which I think is funny. Um, I'm very familiar with the character

01:23:34   of Totoro, you know, like, I know the character. You've seen the Totoro around.

01:23:38   Seen it, you know, as somebody who loves Pusheen, like, Pusheen and Totoro go together quite nicely.

01:23:44   They're really color, right? Um, I know the Umbrella bus stop image very well, right? Like,

01:23:51   it's just like an iconic image. Um, so I asked, like, a question. Is Totoro an imaginary friend?

01:23:58   That was my thought going into the movie. Like, is Totoro an imaginary friend? Is that what Totoro

01:24:03   is? We'll find out. Interesting question. Um, and then also, just as a note, this is my first

01:24:07   ever Miyazaki movie. I've never seen a Miyazaki movie before. Wow. Well, we're, I realized that,

01:24:12   that depending on how this goes, we may rapidly move on to Kiki's Delivery Service, but, uh,

01:24:17   which is actually my favorite Miyazaki movie. This is my probably second favorite.

01:24:23   So I'm sure- Also from the 80s.

01:24:24   If, if, uh, there is a special guest host of next week's episode listening right now,

01:24:29   they will be upset at the fact that I watched the dubbed movie. I watched the, I'm sure, I'm sure

01:24:34   that would upset that person. I just, there are purists out there, and it's true if you want to

01:24:39   get closest to the Japanese, uh, spirit because the dubs have to match the, the sort of the mouth

01:24:45   movement and what's on screen. And so they don't always impart all the same information that you

01:24:49   would get in the translation of what they're saying in Japanese. And I get that at the same

01:24:54   time for an animated movie. I do have this other feeling, which is it's all dubbed in a way because

01:25:01   there are, there are drawings with somebody's recorded voice underneath them, but I get it.

01:25:06   I have watched it with the subs before, but I didn't watch it with the subs this time either.

01:25:12   I watched the dubbed version. So the movie, I guess, is focused around a young family,

01:25:18   uh, moving from Tokyo to the country, um, because the mom of the family is sick and

01:25:25   they never say what, but it's clearly something very bad. We'll talk about that a little bit more.

01:25:29   Yeah, I think I assume tuberculosis, but yeah. Okay. And that's your villain in the film,

01:25:34   by the way, the villain, the villain in the film is the illness of the mom. There's no

01:25:38   bad person in this. Um, and, uh, so they, they're moving to the country because I guess

01:25:44   it will be better for her. Um, once she hopefully gets better and the movie is focused around the

01:25:51   two girls, uh, Satsuki and Mei. Now I had just assumed that Mei would be the main focus of the

01:25:57   movie and like after the establishing part that, um, Satsuki would, would fade into the background,

01:26:04   but that wasn't the case. Um, no, Satsuki's the main character and Mei is, is just this,

01:26:09   uh, adorable little sister who does. And I liked that. It wasn't what I expected, but, but I,

01:26:14   but I enjoyed that. I will say this movie perfectly captures the relationship of a younger sibling.

01:26:21   Doesn't it? Doesn't I, I, as having, I never had, uh, close aged siblings, but having had two kids

01:26:28   who were three years apart, um, I laugh at that so much because it's so true. Like the just,

01:26:34   there's a scene where they're going through the house and Mei just keeps basically doing exactly

01:26:38   what Satsuki already did. And repeating everything and repeating everything she says and all of that.

01:26:44   And, and she says, I'm going to go do this thing. It's like, oh, can I come too? Like that's the

01:26:48   little sister is just following her around and doing everything she does. It's adorable.

01:26:51   That the dub, the voices are Dakota and Elle Fanning, like actual sisters,

01:26:57   which I really liked and they did a great job. I thought that it was real. Their performance was

01:27:02   excellent. Um, like you could show me that movie and I don't think I would have known it was dubbed.

01:27:06   I guess the only giveaway would have been for me, which is a little bit interesting. You kind of,

01:27:10   I kind of just had to put it to the back of my mind of like, this is clearly Japan and these are

01:27:14   clearly American accents, right? Like I had to like, just try and just forget that. And I was

01:27:19   able to after the first couple of minutes, but like at first it was a bit like, this is very

01:27:24   Japanese, like what I'm seeing here, right? Like we're not even in a city, you know, like, um, but

01:27:30   we're just forget about that. But, um, there were, you know, I, I liked a lot of the little moments,

01:27:38   right? Like the first time that they come into contact with the Sook Gremlins is really funny

01:27:42   to me. You know, like the girls trying to be brave and like, I enjoyed all of that stuff. Like the

01:27:47   way that they were clearly troublemakers, right? But we're all so scared at many points. And I

01:27:53   really enjoyed just how much trouble those sisters would cause. Like when they effectively nearly

01:27:59   bring the whole house down in the beginning, right? Where they're just pulling on that beam

01:28:04   and everything's just starting to crumble around them. Like I just, that was very funny. They're

01:28:08   like, the dad had, he seems to have his work cut out for him a lot of the time. Yeah. But he's a

01:28:13   cool dad, right? He is a cool dude. They come in and they say, they say, this is, uh, the dad,

01:28:18   the house is haunted. And he's like, great. I've always wanted to live in a haunted house.

01:28:23   Yeah. I really like this character. Lauren and I both were watching this and we're like,

01:28:26   he's a good dad. Yeah. He's a very good dad. And like when they're all scared and he starts laughing,

01:28:31   right? Like they look at when they're, when they're bathing and he's just like,

01:28:35   starts laughing at the top of his voice, like get rid of the monsters and the ghosts that way. It

01:28:38   was really cool. Um, I want to ask you something, cause it seemed interesting to me. Um, and I

01:28:43   couldn't quite work it out if I, if it was a different thing to most movies or if I just

01:28:48   wasn't noticing it so much, there are a lot of like panning shots with landscapes and it looked

01:28:55   really different. Like it feels like a thing I don't see in animated movies a lot. I couldn't

01:29:00   work out what it was, but it seemed like there was some interesting like camera moves going on

01:29:06   that seemed to be refreshing in some way or am I like, is there something about that?

01:29:13   I don't know about the camera moves. I will say that Miyazaki loves landscapes. He loves

01:29:19   showing a lush foliage. He loves clouds. I love the way water was shown. It's very impressive.

01:29:26   Yeah. There's that, that thing where the little, something like pops up out of the water and there

01:29:30   you watch the ripples and then it just kind of moves on. He loves that stuff. It's incredibly

01:29:34   detailed. It's beautiful. Most, I would say most films, uh, animated films do not lavish that much

01:29:41   time and effort on the beauty of the surroundings, but something that, that is very clear in all of

01:29:46   Miyazaki's movies, but it's clear in this one is that he, he does a lot of stuff about the

01:29:51   environment and about people interacting with the environment and treating it badly and how we

01:29:56   should treat it better. There's a line in here about how this is, you know, there was a lot of

01:30:00   these things before we started cutting down all the trees or something like that that happens.

01:30:05   And so you also, he shows a lot of his imagery in his movies is kind of like, uh, look at this

01:30:10   beautiful lush environment. This is rural Japan, or this is Japan as it used to be. And that's

01:30:14   definitely a theme that he's trying to get it. His environmentalism, he puts it into the kind

01:30:19   of beautiful scenery of the countryside and it's just, it is beautiful. Every, I put on this movie

01:30:24   and the first thing I say is, oh, look at those clouds. They're great. One thing that was striking

01:30:31   to me was how much silence there is in this movie. It felt very different to a regular animated movie.

01:30:36   Not a lot of like, of soundtrack, right? Like there's not a lot of music playing in the

01:30:43   background in certain scenes. Like sometimes it's just silence. No one's even talking.

01:30:47   And I was, I think that struck me a little bit. It's like, huh, that's, that's, that feels different

01:30:52   to most animated movies that I would see. Like tension being built by silence or there just being

01:30:58   no music. Like there's just none, you know, and it's just like, here is some peace. And it was

01:31:02   like, huh, it just seemed very different to me as, and I think I kind of liked that a lot. Um, it

01:31:08   didn't help my overall feeling of dread about what was going to happen to the mum. Like, ah, right. I

01:31:16   was very, very nervous about, uh, the, what seemed inevitable death of the mum in this family.

01:31:27   One of the funny things about these Miyazaki movies is that we do bring our Western anticipation

01:31:33   of story structure onto the movie. And something that I've learned about, about Miyazaki movies

01:31:40   is, uh, I keep looking. So when I was first watching these movies, I keep looking for

01:31:45   a villain. I keep expecting a traditional linear plot and I keep expecting things that are dramatic

01:31:52   that happen in movies like the mom dying to have act right. And, and, and they, they don't, like I

01:31:58   said, who was the villain in this? Literally the villain in this movie is the illness that the

01:32:02   mother has. There are no people who are antagonists in this film. Um, Kiki's delivery service, uh,

01:32:09   which hopefully we'll watch sometime. The villain in that is the weather. Like that's it. The wind,

01:32:15   the wind is the enemy in that movie. There is no traditional antagonist. And so, yeah, you,

01:32:21   you kind of start expecting stuff that, uh, the movie doesn't just refuse us to deliver. It's not

01:32:26   that kind of movie. And it, I mean, there were, it was pretty heavy, right? Like they're talking

01:32:32   about the mom dying, right? Like that's the thing that happens when the telegram comes.

01:32:36   And when May goes missing later in the movie, they're like searching a pond to see if she

01:32:40   drowned. Right. And they find a shoe and they're like, is this her shoe? And she's like, Nope,

01:32:45   that's not her show. I noticed this time that we see her put on her shoes earlier. So we know

01:32:49   that's not her shoe. But, um, if only if you're paying attention, I only did it the 10th time I

01:32:54   saw it. I was like, Oh yeah, right. That's, that's actually setting us up there. Yep.

01:32:57   All right. I feel like we haven't even mentioned Totoro yet. So, um,

01:33:01   Totoro, uh, does not sound the way I expected Totoro to sound. Totoro screams and shouts and

01:33:08   growls and roars. I was not expecting that. Um, honestly I was expecting Totoro to have a voice.

01:33:14   Well, he doesn't, he doesn't talk. Right. But he's, he's a, uh, they, they, they just make,

01:33:19   they just kind of make roars and stuff. Yeah. Like I, I, I think I was expecting

01:33:24   Totoro to be like as cute as Totoro's appearance is. Right. Where like the sounds that Totoro makes

01:33:33   are scary sounds. Um, yeah, yeah. Oh no. He, he roars really loudly and everything shakes.

01:33:39   Right. He's adorable. But the big Totoro, there is a small, medium and large Totoro, of course,

01:33:43   but the big, the big Totoro. The see-through Totoro, which I initially thought was like a ghost

01:33:48   that was like, it was like, aha, imaginary friend. Aren't they, aren't they? I mean, they're,

01:33:52   they're like wood spirits, I think so, so they can go through things and then they're not always there

01:33:57   and all of those sorts of things. Yeah. Yeah. Like, so like, I don't, I don't have a, uh, feeling on

01:34:03   like a theory of this movie really. Like the imaginary friend thing seems obvious in some

01:34:08   places, but then like, there are parts that I don't have answers for. Like, how does Satsuki get to

01:34:16   Mei? How do they get to the hospital? Right. Like I don't have, except for the horrifying cat bus,

01:34:22   not like that. Do not like the door on the cat bus. No, thank you. That I didn't like that,

01:34:30   Jason. That upset me. I don't, I don't love it. I don't love it. I, I, the sound effect makes me

01:34:35   laugh because it's like a sci-fi sound effect. It's like, oh, it makes it even worse. Like,

01:34:40   why is the cat making that noise? Did not like the cat bus. Thank you very much. That's fair.

01:34:45   But no, I think I, we had this discussion on the incomparable. People can listen to it. Episode 144,

01:34:50   hanging with the totes. Um, it's a great episode. It's me and John Siracusa and Merlin man. And

01:34:55   I'm putting that in my list because now I can listen to it. No, I love that episode.

01:34:59   It's a great episode and we, uh, all of our, uh, Miyazaki episodes are great,

01:35:03   but that's a great one. Um, and, uh, yeah, we, we talked about it there. The fact is

01:35:08   that, yeah, stuff happens in this movie that is not explained any other way. Like Mei

01:35:12   leaves, they leave the corn on the window sill at the hospital at the end. Like they totally,

01:35:19   it is real. So it's not an imaginary friend, although you could think that, but they are

01:35:23   like magical tree spirits basically. Yeah. So it's like, I don't have a, an answer, right?

01:35:29   Because like if they would have just looked at the mom, that would have been one thing.

01:35:32   And if they would have just shown the corn on the window, that would have been another,

01:35:36   but it literally had a message from the girls on it, right? There's no,

01:35:40   there's no way around that other than the fact that they were there, like they were definitely

01:35:46   there. Right. So I found that all very interesting. Like, I really liked this movie a lot. Um,

01:35:55   I liked it more when it was done and when it was happening because nothing horrifying and upsetting

01:36:00   happened. Right. Like that was my concern. So like now, no, having seen this and having you

01:36:06   said it to me, like if other, I think I will approach other Miyazaki movies differently,

01:36:12   right? Not thinking that something like that, there's not a villain or whatever. And

01:36:16   sometimes there is a villain, but it's it because the structure structures are just

01:36:21   very different from what we expect. Not necessarily expecting something that, you know,

01:36:26   and I think that that would make on future viewings. I will probably enjoy this movie

01:36:31   even more because I really like movies where there are no stakes. Sometimes like I like watching

01:36:38   or like no like upsetting high stakes, right? Like an overall thing that must be overcome.

01:36:43   I like watching nice movies where you just get to see like a slice of life.

01:36:48   That's one of the reasons that I love this movie. And one of the reasons I love Kiki's

01:36:53   Delivery Service, which has a little bit more of a plot, but really not really. And this,

01:36:57   this movie is completely, I would say plot free and it is all about these little experiences and

01:37:03   you can just sit there and enjoy it and it's and look at the scenery and I love it. That's,

01:37:07   I want to give this movie a big hug. Yeah, and I feel like it would hug you back like

01:37:12   in a very furry warm. Although it might also say, "Rooooo!"

01:37:15   So much noise Totoro makes, like so much noise. But I, you know, I really loved all of the

01:37:25   characters. Like I loved all of the characters in this, you know, grandma is awesome. Like she's

01:37:29   super nice. I did find it a bit harsh when like, uh, when the, uh, they get the sandal and they're

01:37:36   like that guy's like, "Oh, grandma!" Like, what does he say? So they're like, "Oh, she's making

01:37:42   a mountain and now nothing again." Like, "Oh, she's overreacting." It's like, "All right. All right."

01:37:46   Like she's worried. I just found that kind of funny. Um, what's the name of the little boy?

01:37:53   Oh, uh, what is his name? I don't know. I'm gonna find it now. He's super funny.

01:38:00   Kanta. With the sailor hat. Yeah, and he's grunts.

01:38:03   Kanta. I found him really funny. Well, and he's like super shy around Satsuki,

01:38:11   but he's also very helpful and lends her his umbrella and all of that. And like is really

01:38:16   focused on trying to help find Mei, right? Like, this is a great movie, Jason. I'm really,

01:38:21   really happy I saw this. I'm glad you liked it. I really, really liked it. It makes me want to

01:38:25   watch Kiki's Delivery Service. Oh, yes. Well, we have to do that. We have to do that. That's,

01:38:30   that is, uh, that is great too. That is a very different looking movie, but, um, I love that

01:38:35   even more than this one. And this one is, is, is delightful. Yeah, the Totoro. They are adorable.

01:38:40   I believe the origin is, uh, troll. And you see that in the dub where it's like, "Oh, like the

01:38:45   trolls in your storybooks or whatever." But it says, you know, "Totoro," but that's the idea is

01:38:51   that it's just kind of like a little girl sort of mangling troll. Um, and that's, so it's not,

01:38:57   you know, that's, we call them Totoros, but they're just these little furry, adorable spirits,

01:39:03   um, that float around and are cute. And yes, and that scene, let's just say it, that scene at the

01:39:09   bus stop before the cat bus, I get the cat bus is creepy, but before that, where, uh, suddenly

01:39:16   he's there next to them and then they, then he's got the, the water is just very slowly dripping

01:39:24   onto his nose from his little leaf hat. And then they give him the umbrella and he doesn't really

01:39:29   know how to use it. And then he realizes that the drops are dropping onto it and making a loud

01:39:34   noise, which he really likes the loud noise. And then he decides to jump and have all the water

01:39:39   come out of the trees. It is a classic. I love that. It's a great scene. It all so much. Yeah.

01:39:44   Yeah. And obviously that's, that's like the part where as well, like some of the understanding of

01:39:50   what's going on starts to change because it's like, "Oh, uh, you, you think it might be all

01:39:55   the amazing imagination, but now Satsuki sees it too." Yeah. And it's like, that's where it's like,

01:40:00   "Oh, so what is going on?" And he takes the umbrella away with him on the cat bus. So that's

01:40:05   that. Yeah. What does that mean? Yes. It's very, very good. Very, very good. Love this movie,

01:40:10   Jason. Thank you for recommending it. Hey, that's great. So we have more to watch now in the future.

01:40:15   I want to see more of these. Yeah, they're good. You've made professor Syracuse very happy as well.

01:40:20   I don't know. I don't know how he's going to feel about the dubbing. That's okay. You know,

01:40:24   in advance, more advanced, uh, he's going to treat you like one of his children. He's going to be

01:40:27   like, "Oh, that's okay. Well, we'll start you out easy." But, uh, but yeah, it's a, it's a classic

01:40:32   and, and Miyazaki's movies are, are great, but my two favorite are Totoro and, uh, Kiki's Delivery

01:40:38   Service. So they are just, I, I, I watch them and I say, "Oh, I love more. I would love more

01:40:43   movies like this that are just pleasant to be, to, to be around." Like just, it's just nice to,

01:40:49   to go on the little journey and be in that world for a little while. And when Japan held,

01:40:54   hosted a World's Fair in 2005, they actually built the house that's in this movie. And I had that

01:41:02   thought while I was watching is like, "Wouldn't it be great to walk around that house?" And they built

01:41:06   that house for the World's Fair. It's amazing. That's awesome. That's really cool. All right.

01:41:11   Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of Upgrade. I hope that you have enjoyed

01:41:17   it as much as we have enjoyed putting it together for you. I'm going to put a link in the show notes

01:41:22   to, uh, an article on Kotaku of the Totoro house. Um, it looks like it's something, yeah, it was

01:41:28   built in 2005. They built a full-scale replica and it looks amazing. That looks super, super cool.

01:41:36   I think it's still something that you can maybe go and see. I don't know. I'll have to read up

01:41:40   on that. That looks like that's super amazing. I love that. Um, if you want to submit questions

01:41:46   always, you can send in a hashtag Snell Talk for the opening of the show, hashtag Ask Upgrade for

01:41:51   the end of the show. Um, I'd like to thank our sponsors for this episode, Simple Contacts,

01:41:56   Luna Display, PDF Pan from Smile and Holo for their support. Don't forget to go to upgradeyourwardrobe.com.

01:42:03   You have just until the 4th of December to buy our limited edition merchandise. Um, I'll be back

01:42:10   in two weeks, but Jason will be back with a very special guest next time. Until then, say goodbye,

01:42:17   Jason Snow. To-to-roar!

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