218: Previously, on Apple Laptops


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:08   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 218. My name is Myke Hurley, I'm joined by Jason Snell.

00:00:14   Today's show is brought to you by Squarespace, Freshbooks and Luna Display. Hello, Jason Snell.

00:00:21   Hello, Myke Hurley, how are you? I am fine and dandy, my friend, but we have an action-packed

00:00:26   show today, so let's jump straight in to our #SnellTalk question. This question comes from

00:00:31   Reid. It is November, which means it is NaNoWriMo time. Jason, Reid wants to know, are you doing

00:00:38   NaNoWriMo? Are you involved in NaNoWriMo this year? And also, what genres have you written

00:00:43   in past years for NaNoWriMo projects? Well, I am, so I'm not on the board anymore. I spent a

00:00:50   lot of years doing that and finally have termed out of that. I have thought about doing it,

00:00:57   but it's been a busy November so far, as we're about to dive into, thanks to Apple, and so I

00:01:04   haven't. What I'd like to do is devote time to editing the novel that I'm trying to edit and

00:01:10   finish. So more like NaNoEdMo? Yeah, that's right, which is something that people have tried to

00:01:15   make a thing in the past. The genres, I've written three complete novel manuscripts. The first one is

00:01:21   a basically young adult action adventure with superheroes. The second one is a science fiction,

00:01:31   and the third one is a tech industry satire/techno thriller. So different genres for all three.

00:01:39   Oh, wow. Yeah, it sounds great. Unfortunately, they're all first drafts and haven't been

00:01:44   rewritten and aren't ready to be read by a human being. Does it not frustrate you that you have

00:01:49   these kind of like three novels just sitting there? It does. I would have liked my plan when

00:01:56   I was leaving IDG. I was like, "Oh, man, I'm going to finish that novel." But the fact is,

00:02:00   as a freelancer, as an independent, you have to prioritize the paying work. It's very hard to...

00:02:04   I admire Dan Morin, who has just walled off part of his time for his novel stuff, and he has

00:02:10   published novels and has more novels on the way that are being published. And he was able to

00:02:18   commit to use that time. And that's something that it's very hard for me to partition off that time

00:02:24   and not use it for, "Well, I've got this other thing I could do instead for "Six Colors" or this

00:02:28   other thing I could do for "The Uncomparable," and then it ends up not happening. So that's been a

00:02:31   frustration. There's a good cartoon from a webcomic name, which is maybe my favorite webcomic, where

00:02:38   it's the little blob who's in every episode, disappears from this brick building that is

00:02:43   employment and says, "Yes, hooray, I'm out of here," and then it begins throwing bricks around

00:02:49   and saying, "Now I can do anything I want." And the last panel, it's in a new brick building called

00:02:54   "Freelance," and it says, "Oh, no." So that's a little bit like it. So yeah, I would love to

00:03:00   get those rewritten and see if they want to be published somewhere or all that.

00:03:06   And it just is hard with all the other stuff going on. Ironically, when I had a regular job,

00:03:12   it was easier to separate those things and make the time for it than it is now.

00:03:17   - Maybe November is just the wrong time for you. Like if you're gonna do it,

00:03:22   maybe you should do it at a different time of year.

00:03:24   - Yeah, I have rewrites stuff on my calendar all the time, and sometimes... But yeah, this is a

00:03:31   terrible time of year because there are new Apple products. I still have some revisions to make on

00:03:35   my photos book and publish the new version of that. I've got a lot of things stacked up. So

00:03:40   basically, I've been unable to even touch my novel for the last two months. So it's not a great time.

00:03:45   But I'm hoping with what we're gonna talk about today and what we're gonna talk about next week,

00:03:51   that I will have reached the end of the peak Apple cycle, and then we'll be on a little

00:03:57   downward slide into the holidays. - Well, we'll say that so far,

00:04:02   this quarter has shown to be surprising. So we are gonna be talking about reviews of the MacBook Air,

00:04:10   the Mac Mini, and the iPhone XR today. So we've got a lot of stuff. But of course, the iPad Pro

00:04:17   embargo lifted yesterday. So there are lots of reviews out now. And I know that, Jason,

00:04:24   you have an iPad Pro, but we're not gonna talk about that today. We're gonna talk about this

00:04:31   next week because you haven't had enough time to fill out your kind of feelings about the product

00:04:37   yet more than just, I guess, like initial impressions. And plus, I will have one and I

00:04:42   want to review it with you. - Exactly.

00:04:44   - So we're gonna hold this on until next week so we can have a bunch to say about it.

00:04:49   - Right. - There are a bunch of

00:04:50   interesting and informative reviews out now, which I'll put in the show notes.

00:04:53   - Yeah, if it sounds like we're being cruel at withholding it, the reality is that I just got

00:04:58   mine. As we release this, I will have had an iPad Pro for all of a few hours. And so there's not

00:05:08   much more I would be able to say than what I said in New York. So better to spend time with it. It's

00:05:16   very much the conundrum of anybody who gets a review unit after the reviews have come out,

00:05:21   which is I could write about it now, but I'm competing with people who've spent a week with it

00:05:26   and I haven't. So that's pointless. And so instead we will wait and then you will get a chance.

00:05:32   - Exactly. I mean, we would have done it and would have like tried to talk about it in a little bit

00:05:37   more detail if we didn't already have three very interesting products to review on this episode.

00:05:42   - Which I have actually much more time with and much more to say. Yeah.

00:05:46   - So that's what we're gonna devote today's show to. But as I said, we will be talking about the

00:05:51   new iPad Pros. I'm gonna get both as well. So I'm gonna have as much information as I possibly can.

00:05:57   - All the iPad Pros. Yes.

00:05:59   - So if you have questions about the iPad Pro, send in with the hashtag #AskUpgrade next week,

00:06:06   and we'll answer as many of those as we can.

00:06:08   - Yeah. I think that's gonna be an iPad Pro blowout episode where it's just about that.

00:06:11   - Yeah. It's gonna be pretty focused on that next week. So I'm very excited.

00:06:17   - You're gonna need to talk about it on this show because on Connected,

00:06:20   Federico's just gonna talk the whole time. So you're gonna need...

00:06:22   - Well, also on Connected, hopefully mine will have arrived, but I would have had it for, again,

00:06:28   like an hour maybe. So we'll see. So that's why we're gonna have a bunch of time. I'll be spending

00:06:34   as much time as possible using those devices so we can talk about them on next week's show. But

00:06:38   we should get into talking about...

00:06:41   - Let's do it.

00:06:41   - Maybe the most interesting of the three for a variety of reasons, we'll see, is the MacBook Air.

00:06:49   So your review started off with something that I really enjoyed, which was looking at the MacBook

00:06:56   Air's history. And it has had a very interesting history. So it was like a marvel when it announced.

00:07:03   They even evoked back to that in the event last week of the manila envelope, the machine being

00:07:09   pulled out of an envelope. It was then realized that it was full of technical issues and downsides.

00:07:16   My brother had one of those things and it overheated to a state that they had to replace

00:07:24   it twice. It overheated so bad, something just went wrong in the machine, like the logic board,

00:07:31   something went pop basically. He got an actual burn from it at one point. That was a very

00:07:39   interesting but technically flawed machine in a variety of ways. It was then reborn as arguably

00:07:46   the best laptop Apple has ever made to where we are today, where it is a machine that is lovingly

00:07:54   welcomed but then was later on questioned. - Yes, at the beginning of... At the fall of 2010,

00:08:00   beginning of this decade, that new design came out, the 13 and 11-inch models with the wedge

00:08:07   shape. It was the... Unlike that first one with the flip down port door and all of that, which

00:08:12   was super weird. It was a super weird product and it was expensive. The new ones were priced

00:08:17   aggressively. And they rapidly became the favorites. And I argue in my review and we

00:08:24   could debate it. It's fun to debate things, but I think it's arguable. It's possible that you could

00:08:29   say that the definitive Mac, especially since most Mac users use laptops, the definitive Mac of this

00:08:35   decade is the MacBook Air, is that MacBook Air design. And yet the last few years, it's been

00:08:42   just abandoned in favor of... In 2015, when the 12-inch MacBook came out and began this whole

00:08:50   new cycle of design language, new keyboards, new screens, new all sorts of stuff. You could argue

00:08:58   back to the retina MacBook Pros, but those felt right that they were ahead of the Air. But when

00:09:02   the MacBook came out, it felt like, "Okay, what's up with the MacBook Air? It hasn't been left

00:09:06   behind. Is it about to get sent to the cornfield for the last time?" And the answer is probably

00:09:14   that Apple intended that, but that didn't happen. And so in 2018, in late 2018, eight years after

00:09:19   that first or that introduction of the thing we think of as the MacBook Air, Apple has finally

00:09:25   done what it probably should have done three years ago, which is make this refresh.

00:09:29   - So here's a recap of some of the new features. There is a new keyboard, a Retina display. It has

00:09:35   a Force Touch trackpad, an Apple-designed T2 processor. It has two USB-C/Funderbolt 3 ports.

00:09:42   It features the Ahoy telephone functionality that comes along with the T2. It has Touch ID,

00:09:47   but no touch bar, and new processors, and they have higher maximum capacities for storage and

00:09:52   RAM than the previous version. So they're kind of like, "Headline, that's what's in this thing."

00:09:57   - Right. It's very much like previously in Apple laptops because it's a recap,

00:10:04   like at the beginning of a Netflix show where it's new to the MacBook Air, but I'm not sure

00:10:10   there's anybody out there who's like, "Well, I just used the MacBook Air. I don't know what

00:10:13   you're talking about." I mean, I guess they're out there. I guess there are probably a lot of people

00:10:16   out there still using the MacBook Air from previous years and are wondering what's in this

00:10:20   new one. And that's the beauty of it because what Apple's done is just stack on like eight features

00:10:25   that they've added to the MacBook Pro and the MacBook over the last few years that have not

00:10:30   yet come to the MacBook Air. And they just kind of like put them all in and like, "Look, they're new.

00:10:35   They're new to this one model, these things we've been doing for the last five years on the rest of

00:10:39   our laptops." - And I think something that we were expecting was a new design and we didn't exactly

00:10:47   get that. So what do you think of the hardware design? - I love it, but that's because I love

00:10:52   the MacBook Air. And that's the thing about it is Apple could have, in fact, some might say Apple has

00:10:59   done a rethink and redesign of the MacBook Air and it's the MacBook, right? Like you could argue

00:11:04   that the MacBook is Apple's modern take on what the MacBook Air should be, even thinner,

00:11:09   even lighter. - I think it was the point of it. - Even more minimal, right? - That was the point

00:11:13   of that machine. - But it was maybe too extreme. And with this, for whatever reason, you know,

00:11:20   the MacBook Air kept selling. With this, they said, "All right, what if we give people what

00:11:25   they want? What if we give them something that is recognizably a MacBook Air?" And the fact is,

00:11:29   that's what they've done. If you are somebody who loves the MacBook Air, either is currently

00:11:33   using an old MacBook Air or has fondness for it but has moved on to something else,

00:11:38   I gotta say, and that's me, that describes me, I've had every MacBook Air over the years. It's

00:11:44   always been, for a long stretch from 2010 until I left IDG, the MacBook Air was, for most of that,

00:11:52   my primary computer. I would plug it into a monitor and use it at work and then I would

00:11:57   carry it in my backpack home at the end of the day. I lived on the MacBook Air. That was my

00:12:03   computer. Even though it was, yes, it was underpowered and not pro and all those things,

00:12:06   I didn't care. I loved it. I carry it back and forth. And so when I pick this thing up,

00:12:11   when I look at this thing, it is undeniably the MacBook Air. It is recognizable. All the design

00:12:16   beats are MacBook Air. The wedge shape, yes, but also like the way that the top and bottom aluminum,

00:12:24   it's got the curved edges, it bends down over to the edges the same way that the Air does. It's got

00:12:32   those four little flat rounded feet. It's got even all of those little screws that are on the bottom

00:12:40   that you know that Apple doesn't love but are very much like, that's what the MacBook Air is. It's

00:12:46   got all the screws on the bottom. They're all there. So it is the way the hinge works, the way

00:12:53   the hinge works and the look of the hinge, it's all MacBook Air. Now on the inside, on the outside,

00:13:00   in fact, I would say if you don't look at the ports and if it's not space gray or gold, you would

00:13:04   be hard pressed at a glance to say that it's, what it is, whether it's a new or an old MacBook Air,

00:13:12   at a glance. - But it is smaller though, right? But you don't necessarily see that. - Right, right.

00:13:18   I mean, you can tell it's actually residing in a funny in-between space. And this is one of the

00:13:24   things that I actually got out. I got out Lauren's 13-inch MacBook Air and I got out my 11-inch

00:13:30   MacBook Air. And there's some images of that in the story. And it's in between the two. It is

00:13:41   because of the bezel shrinking, what they did was they shrunk the bezel so that old Air has the

00:13:47   silver bezel around the outside. It's the old, the way Apple laptops used to be.

00:13:51   Before they said, "No, we're gonna put a sheet of glass over everything and then the screen will be

00:13:57   behind." And there'll be bezels, but they won't be visible bezels in terms of materials. They'll

00:14:02   just be bezels behind the glass, but the glass will be a single sheet of glass. So they finally

00:14:07   did that with this MacBook Air. But also the actual bezel size is so much less. So the width

00:14:13   of the whole computer is less. And so what they've done is they pushed the whole computer in along

00:14:19   with that bezel size savings. And so you end up with a 13.3-inch screen. It's the same physical

00:14:24   size as the 13-inch MacBook Air. But the computer itself is, in terms of width, it's only slightly

00:14:35   wider than the 11. It's about half an inch deeper than the 11. So it's in between, but it's closer

00:14:45   to the size of the 11-inch Air than you might expect. But of course, full-size keyboard,

00:14:50   the speakers, there's enough room so that they can have a full-size keyboard and speakers on the

00:14:55   sides of the keyboard, which means that the sound is more direct instead of what they had to do with

00:15:00   the Air in the past, which is put the speakers in the hinge and fire them back off the screen

00:15:06   and bounce them to you. Now they actually just come straight at you. And as a result, they do

00:15:11   sound more full. And Apple's doing its same kind of stereo field-widening effect processing stuff

00:15:20   that they do with the iPhones, the modern iPhones, and with the iPad Pro. So they're doing some of

00:15:26   that too. So it feels more stereo when you're watching a movie or something on it.

00:15:30   So it has some iPhone tech in it then as well as others ones like of a Mac tech.

00:15:34   Exactly. Exactly right. So it's... But my point is it's still undeniably a MacBook Air,

00:15:39   which is why I like the look of it. Yeah, it's got the two Thunderbolt 3 ports on the one side

00:15:43   and a headphone jack on the other. That means that it doesn't have a display port. Like the old one

00:15:47   had a separate display and Thunderbolt port, and it doesn't have MagSafe. So when we say it's got

00:15:52   two USB ports, just like the last one does, I'll just point out that they are still literally doing

00:15:57   double duty because on the old system you could plug in a monitor, plug in power, and still have

00:16:04   two USB ports. And on this, if you plug in a monitor and power, you're out. So it's different.

00:16:10   One of the big losses for people will be MagSafe. The keyboard is different if you don't like the

00:16:18   new keyboard, which I think is fine. Issues of... I had never really spent a lot of time with the

00:16:24   third generation butterfly. I used the first and the second. I think the third generation

00:16:29   butterfly is fine. I think it's less crunchy sounding than the second, so I actually like

00:16:33   the sound of it better. It feels okay. I got used to typing on it. I wrote a whole review on it.

00:16:39   I got used to typing on it. The reliability issues are a worry, but it's out there. Are they reliable?

00:16:46   Are they not? But the MagSafe thing, I think, is gonna be the thing that existing MacBook Air users

00:16:50   miss the most because it is really weird to have a MacBook Air and then realize I need to...

00:16:54   I need to plug it in and then I need to remove the plug. And of course, it's taking up a USB-C

00:17:00   port when you do that. Yeah, you see, because that's the frustrating part about this, right?

00:17:04   Like if you're coming from the old 13, where you could also plug in other stuff, even if you had

00:17:12   a mouse and a monitor plugged in, you could still plug in probably something else via USB,

00:17:16   because you could use HDMI, or you could then use your SD card, right? SD card slot, right?

00:17:22   So the 11 inch never got, so I never really had that. But yes, it's absolutely there in the 13.

00:17:27   Right, because that's the one it's going up against, right? Like it's going up against the 13,

00:17:32   because that's the only size that they've made available for this, because effectively the 12

00:17:38   inch fills the 11 spot, I guess is what I was thinking. I feel like if somebody told me today

00:17:44   I'm coming from the 11 inch MacBook Air, what should I get? I'd be like, "Well, the MacBook

00:17:48   is small, but I'm telling you the MacBook Air is almost as small as the 11 inch MacBook Air,

00:17:55   even though it's got 13 inch screen." And you get effectively the same I/O constraints coming from

00:18:00   the 11 inch to the old 11 inch to the 13. It's still not though, because you're still losing

00:18:06   MagSafe and Mini DisplayPort. Oh, I forgot about Mini DisplayPort. Yeah, yeah, oh yeah,

00:18:12   because that was the Thunderbolt port. Now the Thunderbolt port is doubled up on the USB-C,

00:18:16   but there used to be a separate DisplayPort. And now there's just, so you really, if you

00:18:21   put in display and power or think of that as Thunderbolt and power, you are going from four

00:18:26   to two. There's no denying it. Two is better than one. Two is one and one is none. We already know

00:18:30   that lesson. John Syracuse taught us that. But it's way better than the MacBook. And I should

00:18:36   point out again, these are Thunderbolt 3 ports. So they're far more capable than the MacBook,

00:18:42   which has a single USB-C port. There's a lot going for them. They can drive a 4K monitor.

00:18:47   One of them can drive it. You can, well, either one, but you can drive a 4K external display

00:18:53   with them. But it's still not. So if you've got any complex kind of port needs, if you've got a

00:19:01   bunch of external things, like I often would have an external hard drive and ethernet and a monitor

00:19:10   attached to my, and power of course, attached to my laptop when I was at work. And in the end,

00:19:15   they were going through the Thunderbolt display. So it was doing all of that. And all I needed to

00:19:19   do was plug it in, which was good. I imagine that when Apple releases its own monitor, and I would

00:19:25   actually imagine that existing USB-C monitors probably supply power. I'm going to say I've never

00:19:31   used one, but I think they do. So that reduces the amount of pain because you're just plugging in one

00:19:37   thing, whereas with the old MacBook Air, you had to plug in two because your USB couldn't double

00:19:42   or you plug in Thunderbolt and you plug in your power. So there are ways, but I'm just saying

00:19:48   it is more complicated. And for those of you who are inveterate MacBook Air users who are

00:19:54   very excited you can buy a MacBook Air now, I just want to say welcome to dongle town.

00:19:58   You'll probably need one, a dongle to convert something somewhere.

00:20:04   - Or orientation begins at the town hall. - That's right. They're welcoming new visitors

00:20:08   all the time. They're really excited that the MacBook Air people are coming in now. That's a

00:20:12   whole new subdivision they can build at the edge of town. But then again, and I think Apple really

00:20:18   believes this, if you're in the vast majority of people who don't plug stuff in, then it doesn't

00:20:23   matter. So yeah. - The keyboard. You mentioned that you found it okay. So it seems like you are

00:20:33   warming to it because you were one of the most outspoken people. I mean, when they initially

00:20:39   changed to this new butterfly mechanism, you were very, very vocal about it. And I said,

00:20:46   - I don't like it. - We could roll back the tape, but I'm pretty sure the word hate was

00:20:50   thrown out at one point. - Oh yeah. Well, everybody gets to have their own opinion about it,

00:20:54   but I don't think this is the right decision for them to eliminate so much key travel.

00:20:59   I don't understand. I kind of mocked them last week about when they made this announcement,

00:21:06   they talked again about the key stability, how, you know, oh, heaven forbid that if your finger

00:21:10   touches the edge of a key, it slightly bends down, you know, while you're pushing it down.

00:21:15   Like who cares? - It fixed a problem people didn't really have. - Were I Ant-Man and I shrunk down

00:21:20   to very small size and was trying to stand on a key on the keyboard and not want it to be wiggly,

00:21:27   I would be very grateful for the new keyboard. But as I am not, I don't care about key stability.

00:21:32   I just don't. Key travel is way more important than key stability. So no, I don't love the decision

00:21:37   they made to go to this keyboard. And I guess what I would say is I can see that they made progress

00:21:43   from the first generation and the second generation. It sounds better. It feels better.

00:21:49   I'm never gonna like it. The other part of it is this really does kind of close the door on

00:21:58   the old MacBook Air keyboard. I mean, I know they're still selling the 999 model,

00:22:02   but now here's a new MacBook Air. It's got the same keyboard as all of the others.

00:22:06   And if you don't like that keyboard and you wanna use an Apple laptop, you're basically out of luck.

00:22:11   This is where we are. You can either use it or not. Is it usable? Yes, it is. I wrote a,

00:22:18   you know, 2500 plus word review on it yesterday and it was fine. Although then I came back to my

00:22:24   mechanical keyboard and I was like, "Whoa, these keys go down so far." Because I had spent all day

00:22:29   just kind of like batting at these very small travel keys. But, you know, so a lot of things

00:22:36   I don't like about the keyboard, but they've gotten better. It does provide audible feedback

00:22:41   without it being super loud and crunchy like on the second generation. That is helpful. It's okay.

00:22:47   You can use it, but I'm never gonna like it. I'm never gonna love it, but it's fine, right?

00:22:53   You can type on it and it's not, you can type on it unless it breaks. And I can't speak to that

00:22:59   issue 'cause I never used one of these things long enough to have to deal with potentially

00:23:03   issues of blowing compressed air into it or taking it to an Apple store to fix it because a piece of

00:23:09   dust got in it. Yeah, it feels like we're still unsure about just about the long-term

00:23:15   ramifications of the current version, right? Yeah, it seems like there are still issues,

00:23:21   but it's unclear whether those issues have been reduced to a rarity. Yeah. Yeah. We don't know yet.

00:23:29   How much of a difference is the Retina display on this machine? I mean, it's a Retina. It is,

00:23:36   it is, you go from not Retina, I mean, let me put it this way. I would open up my 11-inch air

00:23:44   from time to time because I'm primarily using my iPad Pro now, but I'd open up my 11-inch air every

00:23:48   now and then. And I would immediately go, "Whoa." Like, "Oh, oh." Like, I mean, every time I'd look

00:23:57   at it and be like, "Wow, non-Retina display, where have you been?" Like, it is, yeah, Retina Macs are

00:24:04   great. Like, Retina displays have ruined us on our iPads and our Macs and our iPhones have ruined us

00:24:10   now. And it is, it is rough. I know for some people they don't care and that's fine, but like,

00:24:15   it's so much nicer to have just the crisp text. I love it on web pages when I'm writing, just to

00:24:22   have that clear crisp text. It's beautiful. It's an IPS display, so it's a better quality display.

00:24:28   It doesn't have the 4K color gamut. I mean, one of the reasons they're saving money here, it doesn't

00:24:32   have the fabulous color gamut. It doesn't have a true tone sensor or anything like that, but like,

00:24:38   it's a really nice display. It's way better than the display that was there before.

00:24:43   It's not quite, Apple, Apple said at one point that it was twice the resolution or something,

00:24:49   and that is, I believe, that's not true. It's not. It's like 1.7 times the number horizontally

00:24:56   and then again vertically. - Right, but that's just the magic of rounding up in Market Tank.

00:25:00   - Yeah, exactly. But in practice, it does not matter. Like, it is a high resolution display

00:25:06   and it looks great and it's nice that there's a MacBook Air, a retina MacBook Air at last.

00:25:12   We've been talking about, Myke, we've been talking about the retina MacBook Air since this show has

00:25:17   existed as this mythical beast, like a unicorn. Like, the unicorns use a retina MacBook Air.

00:25:24   - The obvious thing is what we've been talking about. - Of course, right?

00:25:27   - It happening. Because I remember at some point we had a long conversation about the laptop that

00:25:34   Adina wanted to buy because she hates the MacBook Air design because she doesn't like the big

00:25:41   silver bezel that went around it. So she ended up getting a MacBook Pro mostly because of that,

00:25:47   because she just didn't like what she thought was an old-looking computer because of it,

00:25:52   which I completely agreed with. So it's been a very long time we've had this.

00:25:56   I guess what you're saying really is this screen is good because you don't notice it anymore.

00:26:05   Right? You don't notice something's wrong with it. It looks as you would expect.

00:26:10   Yeah. And part of that is just the context of every other Apple product that's been designed

00:26:14   over the last five years. Right? Like, literally this now looks like every other Apple product. And

00:26:19   there was a time when we would have looked at this and said, "Whoa, this is a very different MacBook

00:26:22   Air." But at this point, like, it is just coming in line with the rest of the world.

00:26:27   I guess something that's exciting about this machine for a lot of people, I think,

00:26:31   is that it has Touch ID without the need for the Touch Bar.

00:26:35   Yeah. That's the big new feature. I mean, this is a product that is largely just playing catch-up

00:26:40   with every other product in Apple's lineup. And although the Touch ID on the Mac is not new,

00:26:45   because it has been in the MacBook Pro with Touch Bar all this time, this is the first iteration

00:26:50   where they've just put the Touch ID key in. There's no Touch Bar. There's just to the right

00:26:55   of the F12 key. There's this narrow key, just like the one that's on the Touch Bar next to

00:27:00   the Touch Bar, but it's harder to see there. There's narrow key, basically the power key.

00:27:05   But what it's really for, especially since now if you open up a laptop, it boots, like,

00:27:09   you don't need to press the power key at all. What it's really for, other than holding it down

00:27:15   when you're doing a reset, is Touch ID. You lay your finger on it and it unlocks. And it's fast,

00:27:20   and it works just like the one on the Touch Bar MacBook Pro. And it's super convenient. Like,

00:27:27   while I was using it the last few days, like, every time I flip it open,

00:27:31   like, when I was writing the review yesterday, I was going back and forth and doing a bunch

00:27:35   of other stuff. And then I would open, you know, flip the laptop back open, it would be locked.

00:27:40   And I would just, you know, reach out with my index finger as I was picking it up and,

00:27:44   boop, it's unlocked. No typing. You know, one password works great with Touch ID, where

00:27:50   you open a one password and you don't have to type in your password, just like on your iPhone or your

00:27:55   iPad. You can biometrically authenticate and then you just move on. It's instantaneous.

00:28:00   It's a very nice feature. At this point, I feel like it's probably coming to every Apple laptop

00:28:07   in the next iteration. I would be surprised if the MacBook escape and the MacBook, when they get

00:28:11   updated next, if they get updated next, that they will both get this same thing where there's just

00:28:15   a Touch ID button to the right of the function row, and in the function row, but at the far

00:28:20   right, because it makes a lot of sense. And I know there are a lot of people who are saying, well,

00:28:24   why wouldn't they just jump to Face ID? But the reality is that, although we think of the Mac as

00:28:30   a Mac is thicker than an iPhone, the half of the laptop that's got the display in it is very,

00:28:40   very thin. And there is a general sense that perhaps it will be a while before a Face ID

00:28:47   camera will fit inside a laptop display shell. And so, Touch ID. I guess the thing is,

00:28:56   maybe they don't ever put it in the top. Maybe they do something where it goes in the bottom

00:29:02   and it's angled in some way. Well, the iPad has weird angles and can unlock. So maybe,

00:29:09   maybe. We'll see. But for now, that I think is the reason why Touch ID makes sense on Mac laptops.

00:29:16   I think Face ID makes sense on Mac, on iMacs, and on, if they do an external display, having Face ID

00:29:24   camera in there so you can authenticate that way. Because you've got an external keyboard and it's

00:29:30   kind of a mess to do it some other way. But on the laptops, I think Touch ID works great. And I

00:29:34   suspect that we'll see that for a while. Let's talk about power. There's been a lot of discussion

00:29:40   about what processor is in these machines. What is the situation here? What is going on with the

00:29:48   MacBook Air when it comes to power? Yeah, so it's the same class of processor that's in the MacBook,

00:29:56   not the one that's in the MacBook escape. So it's the, what, 5 watt processor instead of the 15 watt

00:30:01   processor. It's the low power. It's not the processor class that was in the old MacBook Air.

00:30:06   It is a lower power part. There's also only one, which I think is interesting.

00:30:10   You have options with MacBook Air. It's very iPad-like in that sense, where this is the

00:30:16   processor that comes with this computer. I suspect that in the future, especially when Apple is making

00:30:22   processors for its Macs itself, that this is how it's going to be. The iPhone doesn't let you build

00:30:28   to order a version with a faster processor. You just get an iPhone. And some other model might

00:30:33   have a different processor, but that's it. I suspect that may happen across the Mac line

00:30:38   in the future, but especially in the consumer line where Apple would rather, if you want a

00:30:42   faster processor, get the MacBook escape, which is $100 more and has a more powerful processor.

00:30:48   I will say it is a newer processor. And the MacBook Air has a fan, has a whole cooling system

00:30:57   that the MacBook doesn't have. And so I think in practice, the MacBook Air is going to be faster

00:31:03   than the MacBook, if only because it can throttle up and blow the fans and keep things cool on the

00:31:10   inside in a way that the MacBook can't. So if the MacBook gets too hot, I believe it has to

00:31:15   throttle down. And the MacBook Air gets too hot, I believe it gets to just... I heard the fans when

00:31:21   I was setting up Dropbox. It spent about an hour just blowing the fans on the MacBook Air. It was a

00:31:27   very familiar sound. I know what MacBook Air fans sound like. It still can do that. So in terms of

00:31:33   the speed of it, it's fine, I think, for lots of uses. You cannot do the thing where you try to

00:31:43   turn it into a pro system by upgrading it to an i7, which is what we used to be able to do back

00:31:48   in the day. I think they went with a lower power part, maybe for cost in part, also for battery

00:31:55   life concerns. But the thing is, in the modern... That MacBook escape, for as long as it lasts,

00:32:03   like, it's $100 more and it's not much heavier, and it's got the higher rated processor. So if

00:32:14   you are the kind of person who specs up a MacBook Air in order to make it like super pro powerful,

00:32:20   even though it's just an Air, I think Apple has sort of drawn a line and said, "Beyond a certain

00:32:25   point, this thing is just not gonna go, and we make the MacBook Pro for you, and you should use

00:32:31   that instead." - Just a super quick correction. It is a Core i5 processor, which is what we've seen

00:32:38   before, but it is running at seven watts, not five watts, which is the difference. - Oh, okay. Well,

00:32:42   look at that. Watts, wattage. - But that's why it can get a little bit more power than the MacBook

00:32:48   can. And again, it's because, as you said, they have fans in it, so they can eke out a bit more

00:32:53   power than they could in the MacBook. - This is the first computer that's used this part,

00:32:57   which is actually a classic MacBook Move. The original MacBook was the same way, where

00:33:01   Intel worked with Apple to supply a part that nobody else had used before, and it created a

00:33:07   whole category that everybody used that part afterwards. So anyway, it's a low-power processor,

00:33:14   and I know there's been some disappointment out there, because the fact is there are a bunch of

00:33:18   people who are kind of wanting to do pro-level tasks and could get away with the MacBook Air in

00:33:22   the past. And like I said, I think Apple has basically said, "Look, we're not gonna do that

00:33:27   on this one. We have not designed this as a pro. We make three different MacBook Pros. Please use

00:33:33   those if you need more power than the MacBook Air can give you." And I'm okay with that. Even as

00:33:39   somebody who used to get the i7 version of the MacBook Air, I get why they're doing it. I'm okay

00:33:45   with it. It makes this a more power-efficient device, which is good in terms of battery and

00:33:51   stuff like that. And it's still gonna give you more power than something like the MacBook, because

00:33:55   it's got a modern, slightly more powerful processor, but more importantly, it's also got

00:34:00   the thermal stuff, so it can blow that fan if it needs to cool things off and let things still run

00:34:07   at the higher turbo boost kind of speeds. Do you have a sense for like... The MacBook really

00:34:13   struggled with the pro apps, right? Like Logic and Final Cut. Do you have a sense for if the

00:34:19   MacBook Air can handle those any better? You know, my MacBook Air never struggled with Logic. I never

00:34:25   had a problem with it. The MacBook Air was fine. The MacBook. The MacBook. Oh, the MacBook. Yeah.

00:34:29   Oh yeah. I think my guess is that the MacBook Air will probably handle something like Logic fine.

00:34:35   I'm gonna guess that Final Cut is gonna be a harder thing, because video, there's a lot of...

00:34:43   I mean, the disc is fast. The processor is not super fast, although the T2 does HEVC. So if

00:34:52   you're doing HEVC encoding, you get that for free. And it's fast, which is great. But if you're doing

00:34:58   like H.264 encode or something like that... I always thought the video encodes on the MacBook

00:35:04   Air were a disaster. I could edit simple-ish projects on the MacBook Air, and then you get

00:35:11   to the video encoding. It was just like walk away for days and the fan blows really loud,

00:35:15   and you go to another computer that's more capable. So I think it remains to be seen.

00:35:19   I did not edit a big video project on the MacBook Air because I thought that was a

00:35:25   bad idea, right? So that's my gut feeling is that it's gonna be... You're gonna be pushing it,

00:35:32   because it's not a pro laptop. It is not pro in the name, and it is not intended to be.

00:35:38   It is intended to be... And this was one of the questions I had for Apple. It was one of the

00:35:43   questions I was really thinking when I was flying home after the event, which is, "Where does this

00:35:48   product fit in Apple's product line?" There are six Mac laptops currently for sale from Apple.

00:35:52   And I really do believe that this is the default. I think this is the place you start when you're

00:35:59   shopping for a Mac laptop. I think even though there's more complexity in the Mac laptop line

00:36:04   than there was before, and that there are more question marks about what's going on because the

00:36:08   MacBook and the MacBook Escape are still kind of hanging out there and haven't been updated yet,

00:36:11   I think in one way the MacBook Air has simplified what you do when you're looking for a Mac laptop,

00:36:18   because I think it gives you a starting point. I think you start with the Air and you say,

00:36:22   "This is the lowest priced other than the 999 Retina. This is the lowest priced Retina MacBook,

00:36:28   and it's got a pretty good feature set. And does it fit your needs?" And then from there,

00:36:35   you spread out and say, "Well, I like that MacBook because it's thinner and lighter,

00:36:38   and I know I'm losing a port, and I know I'm losing Thunderbolt, and I'm going to spend $100 more,

00:36:44   but it's so nice and light and thin, and that matters more to me," which is a classic MacBook

00:36:49   Air argument too, "then you can go and get the MacBook instead. You'll give up some stuff,

00:36:53   but you'll get some stuff." Or you'll say, "I am going to use Final Cut. I need a little bit more.

00:36:58   And it's like, "Okay, well, you can go up to the MacBook escape or the MacBook Pro with Touch Bar.

00:37:02   MacBook escape's $100 more, so that's not even a huge leap, and you can get a little more power,

00:37:08   and maybe you'll feel... And then you can spec up that processor, pay a little more money,

00:37:11   and maybe you'll feel a lot better. And it's not that much heavier. It's kind of like a mega

00:37:16   MacBook Air. Or you can go way, way up to the MacBook Pro if you're a Pro user and you just

00:37:20   need... I need all the power, but you'll get the Touch Bar. You're okay with that.

00:37:26   So there are still trade-offs at the different computers. It will be much simpler when the

00:37:30   MacBook and MacBook escape presumably get updated with the Touch ID and modern processors,

00:37:36   new generation of processors at some point. Or they go away. That would make it super simple.

00:37:40   I don't think the MacBook's going to go away. I wouldn't... I like the escape. It's actually

00:37:48   a good computer. It's just weirdly marketed, but I'm not as convinced about its long-term

00:37:55   life. But I hope it might stick around. Anyway, but I think the best way to think about the Air is

00:38:00   it's the default, which means that as with the MacBook Air in its decade as the representative

00:38:05   product of the entire Mac product line, I think it's broad appeal. It is a broadly appealing

00:38:12   laptop for somebody who wants to buy a Mac laptop. You can point people at that. And then if they

00:38:16   want to shop around, if they want to make some changes, they can do it. I know that it stinks

00:38:20   that it's $11.99 instead of $9.99. Apple is ratcheting up all the prices everywhere, and this

00:38:26   is another case where they're doing it. It is still the lowest-priced Retina MacBook, and I

00:38:30   think that counts for something. I wish it was $9.99. It's not. At least not yet. Maybe it'll be

00:38:35   $10.99 next year. But I do think functionally it is where you start. And that's where the MacBook

00:38:43   Air belongs, honestly. Not to get all sentimental on you, but we are still in the 2010s, and this

00:38:49   is the decade of the MacBook Air, and the MacBook Air should be the starting point in the conversation.

00:38:53   And then you go from there and say, "No, I have more, you know, I have need for more base and more

00:39:00   power or a smaller device or a lighter device," and then you can go from there. But start with

00:39:06   the MacBook Air. I think that's the right thing to do. Today's episode is brought to you by our

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00:40:32   you, "How did you hear about FreshBooks?" you tell them, "I heard about it on upgrade." Our thanks to

00:40:37   FreshBooks for their support of this show and Relay FM. So it's not the only Mac. Let's talk about the

00:40:43   Mac Mini. So, yes, the Mac Mini. Is it a pro machine in more than just color? What kind of power

00:40:53   are we really talking about here with the Mac Mini? So it's obviously it's in space gray because

00:40:58   that's Apple's code for it's different, I guess. Um, it is, so I only got to test the, the baseline

00:41:06   configuration, which is the 1.6 gigahertz i3. That's what I got. They didn't hand out. It's funny,

00:41:11   yes. Sometimes what Apple will do is give you a, a high level configuration. So it looks better than

00:41:18   it is. And that's very interesting. That's peculiar, I think. Exactly. But in this one,

00:41:22   they're like, man, yeah, okay. Uh, you get the, you get the, uh, you get the i3, but you can,

00:41:28   you can, uh, spend more money on a higher end model, which is a three gigahertz, uh, six core

00:41:34   i5. You can max it out to an i7, uh, if you really want to. Uh, so I think it, you know, we will have

00:41:43   to look at the scores and all of that, but I think it can be really, really impressively fast. If you

00:41:48   want it to be, this is a desktop class, uh, processor, it's not a laptop class. It is,

00:41:54   I think for a lot of people, I mean, it fits, it fills this niche that's slightly different than the

00:42:01   well, it's, it's how it was being used. Maybe not how it was originally intended back in the day.

00:42:06   And that is for all of these uses where you need a screenless Mac and a Mac pro is overkill.

00:42:11   Um, but you find these things in all sorts of places, you know, lighting setups and,

00:42:15   uh, you know, uh, audio setups and in live performances and where we recorded,

00:42:21   as I think I mentioned last week, where we recorded, I recorded, uh, in Manhattan at the

00:42:25   stitcher studios last week in an edit bay that was powered by a Mac mini. Like there are lots

00:42:30   of places where the Mac mini fits and this thing, you know, 3.2 gigahertz, six core I seven, like,

00:42:36   that's a lot of power. It's not a Mac pro, you know, and there will be a Mac pro at some point,

00:42:41   but it's still, you've got a lot of, of, uh, of options here. And I think, so I was listening to,

00:42:48   uh, Steven Hackett last week on a couple of podcasts, talk about the base configuration

00:42:52   and how he was like, you don't want that. Like it's not, it's the seven 99. It's like, it's an

00:42:57   I three, uh, it's, it's just a, you know, it's not good enough. You need to, you need to bump that up.

00:43:02   He is very much down on the, on the seven 99 configuration. And I got to say like, again,

00:43:09   I I'll grant you, I'm coming from like a 2011 Mac mini that I was still using as my server, but,

00:43:14   um, but that's all anyone really had to them anyways. Yeah. I mean, the it's, it's,

00:43:24   having the fastest SD and having the Ram where you can start at eight and then go up from there.

00:43:28   Um, my old server, I upgraded it to have eight and it was, uh, it was amazing, but it was also

00:43:33   kind of like all I felt like I needed. So for my needs running a server in my house, I feel like

00:43:38   the base model is fine. In fact, the one feature, fortunately, everything is configurable in this

00:43:41   thing. I can get in the base model, I believe, um, I can spend an extra a hundred dollars when

00:43:47   I buy it and I can get the 10 gig ethernet, um, which I'm actually tempted to do. I've got one

00:43:53   coming that's the base model, but I think I may return it and get one that is, uh, built to order

00:43:58   with the 10 gig ethernet only because I had this vision of being able just cause I have an iMac pro,

00:44:02   which has 10 gig ethernet in it. I have a vision of like buying an ethernet switch,

00:44:07   a 10 gig ethernet switch and having like my storage on my server be at full speed, like,

00:44:14   like 10 times faster than it is now. Uh, I don't know if I'll actually do that or not,

00:44:20   but you could do that. You know, you can, there's, there's a lot you can, you can max this thing out

00:44:25   and spend a lot of money on it, but you will get a lot of Mac for it. It's not, uh, unreasonable at

00:44:30   all. Like 64 gigs of Ram and a two terabyte SSD. And that's super expensive because two terabytes

00:44:35   of flash storage is super expensive no matter, uh, no matter what. But, uh, you know, yeah, it's,

00:44:42   it's, and what's funny about it is like the MacBook air, even more so than the MacBook air,

00:44:45   it's a Mac mini, like other than the space gray, you would not know unless you looked at the ports

00:44:50   that it was a different computer. It is the exact same computer. So you mentioned the Ram,

00:44:54   you get 64 gigabytes of Ram and the same, can you clear up the question of is the Ram user

00:44:59   replaceable? This has been a big question. So it's replaceable, but not user replaceable is the

00:45:04   answer. And that is accurate. In fact, um, so the, the Mac mini has a little, the little, um, foot

00:45:10   that it sits on, which is this little plastic thing that, um, on the old Mac mini models,

00:45:16   there are like two little, um, divots that were like the finger holes. They're not holes,

00:45:21   but the finger, you can put your fingers in them and push and rotate it and it would pop off.

00:45:25   You're like unscrewing it. Well, the message Apple sending with this one is different in that those

00:45:30   little, those little divots are gone. Like there are no finger holes. Don't, don't open this. Don't

00:45:34   push this open. Now I'm sure it does open. It's still that thing. I mean, maybe you need a suction

00:45:39   cup or something. I don't know, but I'm pretty sure you can get in and that iFixit will get it

00:45:44   and tear it apart. But what's under there is the new cooling system because what they've done is

00:45:49   they've taken the space that the hard drives used to be in and they, they've, I mean, they redesigned

00:45:54   the whole interior, but they got a lot of space back in saying, we're not going to have hard

00:45:58   drives, just SSDs, which is a great call. A modern computer shouldn't have spinning hard drives.

00:46:03   They're bad. Um, and, uh, at least as internal, like if you want to have a raid on the outside,

00:46:08   fine, but like internal, it should be flash storage. So, uh, they've used that space to

00:46:13   build in a cooling system that is capable of, uh, relatively quietly cooling, um, even the 3.2

00:46:19   gigahertz, six core I seven. Right. And, and so it's, it's like a small version of the story of

00:46:25   the iMac pro where they use the extra space to do better cooling and quieter cooling. Um, that is on

00:46:32   the bottom there. So if you open it up, what you're going to have to do is you'll find the,

00:46:37   the ventilation stuff, and then you'll have to do the thing that you used to have to do. If you

00:46:42   wanted to upgrade the hard drive in a Mac mini, which is basically take it apart piece by piece,

00:46:48   removing items out of the hole in the bottom one by one until you get to where the Ram is,

00:46:54   and then you could pop out the S O dims. So, so is it, can you upgrade the Ram after the fact?

00:47:00   Absolutely. It's not soldered on. You can do it. Do you want to do it personally? Well,

00:47:05   the way it was described to me, it's like, well, ideally you'd have somebody at the Apple store do

00:47:10   it, or you'd have an authorized Apple repair person do it. But I, you know, I even got somebody

00:47:18   at Apple as I was, as I was, uh, I think walking out to say, you know, we all know that iFixit is

00:47:25   going to post instructions about how to do this and you could do it. Um, as somebody who has

00:47:34   upgraded the hard drive in a Mac mini before, I don't recommend it unless you're super confident

00:47:40   because it was Dan Morin and I both did this and, uh, it was super stressful. It took a long time

00:47:47   and I broke some stuff. Like my Mac mini, when I got it all in with the new drive,

00:47:52   couldn't make sound anymore. And it did, it was an older model with the infrared port and the

00:47:57   infrared was also broken at that point. I snapped those cables or whatever I did. I did something

00:48:02   very bad. It still worked, but it was not what it used to be. So what I'm saying is, um, the good

00:48:08   news is that the RAM is upgradable after the fact, but I don't really recommend that somebody who

00:48:14   isn't super confident and technical attempt to do it. You can get a, get the pros to do it for you.

00:48:20   If you need that down the road, um, you know, if you start with, start with eight and decide to go

00:48:24   to 32 in four years, you will be able to get somebody to do that for you. I think one of the

00:48:29   biggest things to compare the Mac mini to the new Mac book air is the ports. This thing has all the

00:48:35   great ports, right? It does. It's got, um, let's see, four Thunderbolt three and two USB-A along

00:48:44   with ethernet. That's a lot already. That's six ports. Yeah, it is. Yeah. And then, and then,

00:48:50   yeah, it's got ethernet and a headphone jack and, and HDMI. Um, but, uh, so yeah, it's, it's got,

00:48:57   it's got all of them, all the great ports. So you can, you can, um, stick some of your old USB-A

00:49:02   stuff on there. If you need more, you can use a hub or you can use an adapter, uh, from USB-C to

00:49:07   USB-A. I have, my rate is Thunderbolt two. And so I have a, uh, Apple sells a Thunderbolt three to

00:49:15   Thunderbolt two adapter, which I had, I had a while ago. And, um, and that's how my rate is

00:49:22   attached to the new Mac mini is using that adapter and it works just fine. So, uh, you know, you've

00:49:28   got, you got, and I've got ports open, you know, I've got three Thunderbolt three ports back there,

00:49:34   just hanging out that I haven't added anything to yet. And, uh, so it's super flexible on that

00:49:40   front too. It's got, it's got all of them, including it's the same. They're making the

00:49:44   same decisions they made with the iMac pro, right. Which is this is, or the iMac really it's, it's,

00:49:49   this is complicated enough. Um, and we've got enough space and we let's add the flexibility.

00:49:55   It's not a laptop. Why not give them some of the old USB ports and some of the new USB ports and

00:50:00   let them choose. And I guess for a lot of the purposes that you would use it off, a lot of the

00:50:06   purposes that Apple kind of calling out when talking about this machine ports are key. I

00:50:12   feel like they couldn't have told the story that they wanted to tell without having a bunch of IO

00:50:18   on this thing, because it is not a machine that can fit into many different purposes.

00:50:23   If all it had on it was maybe just the four USB C ports, like that's not, that's not the story that

00:50:29   they're telling. Right. I think versatility is an important feature and they wanted it to be,

00:50:34   uh, as versatile as possible. And it doesn't have, um, it just uses onboard Intel graphics.

00:50:41   And I've heard some grousing about that, but, uh, the beauty of it is, uh, Thunderbolt three,

00:50:47   you can just, you can attach an eGPU and have an external GPU if you want it. And you could do that.

00:50:53   Those aren't cheap, but you can do it. So there's a lot of flexibility in this little thing. It is,

00:50:58   I kind of wanted to say, you know, I hear people, uh, and know people who for years have been

00:51:03   complaining that they wanted a, uh, a mid range, uh, Mac mini tower, the idea of something that's,

00:51:08   uh, more than a Mac mini, but less than a Mac pro. And I think the truth is that at least from

00:51:15   Apple's perspective, this is that, and what you should do is spec this up and then use those many,

00:51:21   many ports on the back, including some very fast Thunderbolt three ports to attach fast external

00:51:28   devices. If you want more. And there's, that is, I know not what they want. Um, but cause they want

00:51:35   like a, an old PC and Apple's not going to give them an old, big PC chassis with a bunch of slots

00:51:41   or something in it. But this is effectively that in the sense that those Thunderbolt three ports

00:51:45   are so capable that you should just be able to hang fast, whatever off of it on the outside

00:51:51   using Thunderbolt three. And that's, that's the closest you're ever going to get. I would say to

00:51:55   that, um, that desire to have a powerful computer. That's not a Mac pro, but still has a lot of

00:52:02   expansion. It's just external expansion via Thunderbolt three. Do you think that this Mac

00:52:07   mini says anything about the Mac pro like what it's going to be? Um, I mean, I think it does in

00:52:13   the sense that you can see how we now know the range of the Mac mini, the dynamic range of the

00:52:19   Mac mini, which is a, a high dynamic range. It is that it goes from a, not super low, but from low

00:52:26   to, uh, to pretty high. And so you would have to imagine that a Mac pro is going to start

00:52:34   somewhere up by where this ends and then go up from there. Um, I don't know exactly what form

00:52:43   that will take, but it does feel like this is what they're, um, you know, this is what they're doing.

00:52:49   I, I, I still think that they're going to have internal, some internal space on the Mac pro,

00:52:54   but you know, I think it's not a given. Um, and I think it'll be more swappable than this is.

00:53:03   Maybe it will be actually use a replaceable stuff as opposed to just replaceable stuff.

00:53:08   I would think that that would be an important part of something like a Mac pro. Cause you're paying,

00:53:12   you're paying for not only the premium for the power of it and that'll have undoubtedly have like

00:53:17   Xeon processors and things, things that are beyond the desktop class.

00:53:20   What is modular? Right. That's what they're talking about. Modular. What is modular?

00:53:23   Right.

00:53:24   Do you think Apple's going to sell a lot of Mac minis?

00:53:28   I think Apple will continue to sell Mac minis like they've been selling Mac minis. I think

00:53:32   they'll sell a lot in the first, uh, first quarter. Um, I've also heard from people who are like,

00:53:39   well, I'll get one eventually when mine dies, but mine's fine right now. So I think,

00:53:42   I feel like the Mac mini will now do what it's been doing, which is continue to bubble along

00:53:47   and people will buy them when they need them. And it's not a very exciting, like, it's not a,

00:53:51   it's not a got to have it product. It's just a product that needs to exist. And so I understand

00:53:56   Apple's, um, reluctance to update it very often because it's never going to be one of those

00:54:01   things that everybody's like beating down the doors. Say like, Oh boy, everybody loves the Mac

00:54:05   mini. We need another Mac mini right now. And everybody goes like, Oh, it's, it's the Mac mini,

00:54:10   it's everywhere. We're, we're so excited. Like it doesn't, it just, it's not that product. It is

00:54:15   more boring than that, but it does need to exist and it does have its followers and it will continue

00:54:21   to sell. But you know, I don't, I don't think it's ever going to be a huge seller because that's not

00:54:25   what it's for. It's really, it's really to fill these, all these different little niches where,

00:54:31   um, where, uh, you need a headless Mac and you don't want to buy a Mac pro. So, and there are

00:54:39   a lot of them and Apple acknowledges that there are a lot of them. And so, you know, it'll just

00:54:44   kind of continue on. And now that it's a modern Mac, it's also possible that they will every

00:54:47   couple of years update the processor inside of it and do that. I would, I would be shocked if

00:54:54   this Mac mini was not designed so that they don't ever have to do a major, you know, engineering

00:55:00   redesign on it for years, but they can fairly easily upgrade the processors or whatever they

00:55:06   need to do. Um, as we go, we'll see. I saw a fun theory online. Uh, I don't know if I subscribed

00:55:14   to it, but, but I kind of want to, cause it's fun. Uh, I saw a few people talking about this,

00:55:19   that one of the reasons they may have kept the Mac mini's size and shape the same is because

00:55:24   Mac stadium have a lot of custom racking hardware and you would expect Mac stadium one of the

00:55:30   biggest purchases of biggest customers. Yep. And that maybe if they were talking to them,

00:55:35   maybe Mac stadium would have said it would be really, really useful for us. If you didn't

00:55:39   change the size of this thing. Yeah. I think that that is part of it. I also think, I think that

00:55:44   would have been a piece of data that they took. Yeah. I don't think it's a reason, but I reckon

00:55:49   it was a reason, but, but you put that on the list and then you say, what do we need to do? Like,

00:55:54   cause obviously they were reluctant to update this product because they didn't for very, very,

00:55:58   very, very many years. Right. They didn't update it at all. And it's got the same enclosure that

00:56:03   it's had for a decade, basically too. So, um, I think they looked at it and it's like, well,

00:56:10   geez, if we don't have to change the outside and there are people saying, please don't change the

00:56:14   outside. Why don't we just not change the outside? Like we already, I mean, literally we have the

00:56:19   molds, we know the shape. Why, why put work into that part of this thing when we're trying to

00:56:26   minimize the amount of work we do. So we sure we'll do a different anodization on it. We'll

00:56:31   change its color, but like it is a lot less work if you don't have to change the enclosure. And so

00:56:37   they didn't like, I think, right. Like, like people will be happy if you don't change the enclosure

00:56:43   and it saves us time. So let's do that. Yeah. And money one time is money, but yeah, I mean,

00:56:49   somebody, so if they, if they made it slightly different, like now they have to do all sorts

00:56:53   of materials testing, like here, they just, it's the same. It's literally the same. I put them,

00:56:58   I put them in a stack. They are exactly the same in terms of the footprint. They're exactly the

00:57:04   same. The Mac mini is a low key machine, but this is a great update. That's going to serve a lot of

00:57:09   people very well. And I applaud Apple for doing it. Finally. This is exactly what Apple should

00:57:14   have done with the Mac mini. And I know there are people out there who are mad because it's, it,

00:57:18   they viewed it as being the low cost entryway into the Mac. And at a time when Apple is raising

00:57:23   prices in a lot of different areas, this is another frustration, but, um, I think the 799

00:57:29   Mac mini is a very capable machine. And I think we don't live in the era of Apple trying to get

00:57:36   desktop switchers in at a low price. I think, uh, we, that was a very different era and today's era.

00:57:43   First off, most people use laptops and not desktops and Apple designed this mini for what it feels is

00:57:49   essentially the market. The mini was already selling into and making it better for that market.

00:57:54   And that market is not families with a PC on a desk that they're unplugging and putting in a 499

00:58:01   model. That's not that that's what it was. And it went when Steve jobs introduced the Mac mini

00:58:07   at the beginning, but it's not, which was before the Intel transition. It was a long time ago now,

00:58:12   but that's not what it is now. So I think it's a pretty good value for what it is. And, uh, that

00:58:16   flexibility is huge for anybody who relies on a Mac mini to do, uh, some aspect of what they do for

00:58:22   a living, which is a lot of people. You mentioned about the, uh, the, the raising prices. Um,

00:58:29   I want to talk about a little bit about why that might be happening. And this is a segue into Apple

00:58:37   results. So we just had some quarterly results come out. Um, let me give you the real quick

00:58:42   headlines and we'll talk about the one big interesting thing that happened, uh, this time.

00:58:46   So headline numbers, $62.9 billion in revenue for this is the, uh, this is the fourth quarter,

00:58:54   right? This is fourth quarter revenue or is it? Yeah, it's the end. It's the end of their fiscal

00:58:57   year. It's the last fiscal quarter of 2018. So $62.9 billion in revenue up from 52.6 billion year

00:59:05   on year, 46.9 million iPhone sold, which is up from 46.7 million. So not a lot more iPhones at

00:59:14   all, really. It's effectively flat, effectively flat, but way up in revenue, but 20 plus percent

00:59:20   up in revenue. Yep. Which we would have expected. And again, we'll get to that 9.7 million iPad

00:59:26   sold down from 10.3 million. It makes perfect sense considering there were new iPads on the way.

00:59:30   I don't think it's funny that the iPads went down for the first time in like six quarters and I

00:59:36   don't care because I know what's happening. Yep. You know, it's perfectly timed 5.3 million max

00:59:43   sold down from 5.4 million. Same deal as the iPads. Everyone knew to a new max on the way.

00:59:48   Yeah. And it's basically flat and services revenue is $9.9, $8 billion up from $8.5 billion.

00:59:55   And the guidance for the next revenue, so for Q1 revenue, the holiday quarter is between $89 and

01:00:01   $93 billion in revenue, which is absolutely bonkers. We're probably like one more year

01:00:09   before they hit a hundred, right? Yeah. And this is the, um, this is holiday quarters, always their

01:00:15   big quarter. Um, this is, uh, this will be their guidance as a record. The stock fell initially

01:00:23   because the Wall Street was hoping to see 92, I think as guidance and they gave this range that's

01:00:28   up to 93. So there's some part of their range that doesn't hit the guidance. And of course,

01:00:32   Wall Street's all about expectations. But, um, what Apple's saying here is yes, next quarter will be

01:00:37   our biggest quarter ever. We will beat our record, which was last holiday quarter.

01:00:42   But the big thing that happened is changes to future reporting. So from now on, so from,

01:00:51   from Q1 onwards, we will no longer get sales numbers of products, just revenue numbers.

01:00:59   So Luca Maestri kind of gave the main reason for this, which is from Apple's perspective,

01:01:05   that the reporting of 90 day unit sales no longer presents an accurate picture of Apple's performance.

01:01:10   It is worth noting just for the record that Google and Samsung, they report in this way. Apple was

01:01:17   kind of the only big company as phone manufacturer that reported unit sales instead of just revenue.

01:01:24   Why have they done this? So I want to give a quote from Shannon Cross, who works for Cross Research.

01:01:31   I found this in a Bloomberg article, which kind of, I think, gives the most synced reason for

01:01:36   why they've done this. Apple is trying to shift the discussion to services and recurring revenue,

01:01:41   because the more recurring revenue, the higher your valuation becomes. It is as simple as that.

01:01:46   Unit sales no longer are good for Apple. And the reason unit sales are no longer good for Apple

01:01:51   is Apple are not selling as many more iPhones as they used to. Yeah, the sales, sales are flat or

01:01:59   just slightly up. And what happens is when, when people see that, their stock falls. And they're

01:02:04   oh no, Apple is doomed. Well, so this is, this is the thing. So there's a bunch of things going on

01:02:08   here. Shannon Cross is great. She is on the call every time she always asks a question. So she's,

01:02:14   she, she is in the, this is Tim club. So this is partly because Apple is not required legally to

01:02:27   do it, right? Like it's kind of funny that Apple discloses what they do, because there are legal

01:02:31   restrictions on a public company where there are things you have to, you have to break out in your

01:02:36   results. But this was good for them when it was good for them, which is why they did it, right?

01:02:42   Like they continue talking about unit sales for as long as they did, probably because it was a good

01:02:46   thing to keep talking about unit sales. Probably there was, and there was a legacy there because

01:02:51   they always did it. They used to break out desktop and laptop Macs too. And they pulled that out

01:02:55   at one point and just went back to a main, a main number. But they don't have to do this and it

01:03:01   doesn't benefit them. And I think if Apple had its druthers, it would, it would, you know, disclose

01:03:05   as little as possible. It's kind of amazing. They went as long as they did, but you're right. There

01:03:09   was not a really real reason. And, and what both Tim and Luca Maestri said on the call is that

01:03:16   they're, the fact is their disclosures are meant for investors and investors, as far as they're

01:03:25   concerned, should only be caring about revenue growth and sweating the sales numbers in a product

01:03:31   roll-up category is not worth it. If you're looking at Apple, they say, what you really

01:03:36   need to do is look at our revenue. And if our iPhone revenue goes up, it doesn't matter what

01:03:40   the sales composition was. He also said, which I thought was a really funny one that he said,

01:03:45   you know, for example, our, our brand new units, our brand new stuff did really well this quarter.

01:03:50   But you, you have, you don't see that because we only give you the total number. To which I

01:03:58   thought, well, you could break it out. But you do that. You make that happen. This isn't a natural

01:04:04   thing that occurs in the world. Like you have the data. So, yeah, so, so that, that I thought

01:04:09   that was really funny, like, well, you know, it's, it's not a great number and we're not going to

01:04:13   supply you with a better number. And so we're just going to give you no number. And so we'll,

01:04:17   we're going to be left with, as with other phone makers and other computer makers, we're going to

01:04:23   be left with IDC and other places guessing about numbers and we'll see how accurate or not accurate

01:04:29   they are and tidbits that get dropped in various Apple events and other appearances by Apple execs,

01:04:35   where they'll mention that they hit some sort of milestone. They will only talk about this now when

01:04:39   there is a benefit to them to do when it serves them. Exactly. Right. Exactly. Right. So if they

01:04:43   have great sales, they'll say much like with the Apple watch up to this point, right. They'll say,

01:04:46   this was really great. We, we had big Apple watch growth 20% year over year, 50% year over year,

01:04:51   whatever. They'll say that. And then the next quarter, they won't mention it. Like they didn't

01:04:54   mention the Apple watch sales at all this time. And there, there had been several quarters in a

01:05:00   row where they had mentioned Apple watch sales and they just did, they didn't even mention it. And

01:05:04   that's probably because the beginning of the quarter, they, it hadn't come out yet and the

01:05:08   sales had stopped. And then they sold them toward the end of the quarter when the new ones came out.

01:05:12   But regardless of it, that like they, they, they didn't characterize it at all. And when they don't,

01:05:16   you just don't get the data point. So that's, that's what they've done. They've changed here

01:05:20   because the fact is the smartphone market is maturing and Apple is cranking up prices. That's

01:05:27   one thing that's happening. They're increasing the services revenue. They're definitely focused on

01:05:34   showing revenue growth because that's what the investors want. That's what the stock market is

01:05:38   want. It's, it's looking for growth and it is looking for revenue growth. And so Apple is going

01:05:44   to show its revenue growth and it's not going to talk about unit sales anymore. And if that, if,

01:05:51   if you want to view that in the context of the fact that every single product that they release

01:05:56   costs more than it used to, then this is what I think that's appropriate.

01:06:01   This is why, like, uh, I know this is a very hot button topic right now. Like if you mentioned

01:06:07   anything currently about any of the new products about why you like them, people want your opinion

01:06:12   on why it's more expensive. The fact, the reason it's more expensive, I mean, Apple are doing more,

01:06:17   they're putting more in this stuff. They're trying their best to show some reasons why things are

01:06:22   more expensive. But the reason more things are more expensive is because Apple needs to grow

01:06:26   their revenue now. And if you don't like that, and I understand why you wouldn't like that. I mean,

01:06:31   nobody loves it, but like if you have a real problem with it, like I hate to say it, but you're

01:06:35   going to have to get used to it because this is going to keep happening now because Apple's growth

01:06:41   now is money. They need to make more money, believe it or not, even though they make so much money,

01:06:47   they have to continue because they are bound by their investors to do so to make their stock price

01:06:55   go up. And the way they make their stock price go up now is by showing more and more increases

01:06:59   in revenues. Why products are more expensive. It's why the iPad line has all these expensive

01:07:04   accessories. It's why there's stainless steel on the iPhones. They need to make products more

01:07:12   expensive. They try and justify it by making them look and feel more expensive. And it's all just to

01:07:18   drive the revenue numbers and they're going to keep doing this. And there's a thought that when

01:07:22   the sales are flat, that means that the buying cycle has lengthened out. And we've talked about

01:07:28   that here before that if you're buying an iPhone every two years, you can charge X. But if

01:07:34   suddenly people are buying it every three years, well, what you can do is charge X and a half

01:07:40   and make it a nicer phone that will last those three years. But also you'll still get your money

01:07:47   over the course of those three years. It's just a larger price paid less often. And that's a

01:07:52   game that they're playing now. I also want to say, I don't, I mean, there's, we'll talk more

01:07:58   about this in another show, undoubtedly, this is going to keep happening. But I don't believe that

01:08:03   Apple has completely abandoned lower price points. One of the things that they do is they still like

01:08:09   the iPhone 8 is still available and is a really good phone and is cheaper than it's than it's ever

01:08:14   been. They will continue to do that. But what we are seeing is Apple saying, if you want the latest

01:08:21   and greatest, you're going to pay for it. That's what they're saying. And I know that that bothers

01:08:26   people because there are, I've seen it in, in talk about lots of Apple products where, where people

01:08:34   are bothered by the fact that this event, especially this most recent event, because everything got

01:08:38   more expensive, you know, we've had stuff where like, okay, the phone's more expensive, but there's

01:08:42   still other phones like, okay, fine, whatever. Like we'll go. But this event, it was like,

01:08:46   here's a bunch of new products. They all cost significantly more than they did before. And

01:08:53   so in my mind, and I get it, look, there's a fundamental here that will never change,

01:08:57   which is we all want great stuff for as low a price as possible. Right. And I want the best

01:09:05   thing ever for nothing, for no money, but that's not the way the world works. And, and it is beyond

01:09:11   the scope of this podcast to discuss capitalism. Sorry, people who would like this to be the

01:09:17   capitalism podcast and I've heard from them, it ain't going to happen. But, but what I will say is

01:09:24   I would point to, yes, the iPhones where they're selling older models, but I would point to the

01:09:28   iPad as like, I would love for Apple to in the end, reach a place where something like what

01:09:34   they're doing with the iPad happens to the other products, which is a stronger differentiation

01:09:39   between pro and consumer, because the fact is that iPad for $350, it is great. It is a really

01:09:47   good product. It's got Apple pencil one support it, right. It is a 9.7 inch screen. It's a good

01:09:56   product and it's $350. And the existence of the iPad allows the iPad pro to cost more money

01:10:02   because those iPad pros, although they're way more expensive than they used to be. And I saw

01:10:06   somebody the other day say, well, I was hoping to get the new iPad pro at the same price,

01:10:10   but now it's $150 more. And that's, that's a bummer. I'm like, I get that at the same time,

01:10:14   if you look at what's in them, I think this is not a story of Apple saying,

01:10:19   Hey, I know what we'll do. We'll just crank up the price. I think what Apple said is,

01:10:22   why don't we make these more expensive and put more stuff into them? I really believe that that

01:10:29   was the charter here was Apple saying, let's go all the way to the wall with the hardware.

01:10:34   Let's make these laptop class products probably because that's the direction they want to take

01:10:39   the iPad pro over the longterm and with the software and all of that. And viewed as laptops,

01:10:46   they're not unreasonable. Right. But I think that was their intent was why don't we design a more

01:10:51   expensive product? Not why don't we take our same old design and raise the price on it. And I know

01:10:56   that's a little, in the end, it doesn't matter if you are just disappointed in the price, but

01:11:00   I do think it's a difference in what Apple's doing and they can do that more because they've got the

01:11:04   iPad. My frustration with them is that the MacBook that we talked about earlier in this episode is

01:11:10   $1,199 because if there was a good solid fine for most uses retina MacBook at $999 and then

01:11:19   everything else, all the other versions you wanted and you want to get more pro like even with the

01:11:23   one processor. Right. So you said, well, it's $999. So you need to spend $300 more to get the

01:11:28   MacBook escape, but that's a pro system. And this is not like that is for me. That's the ideal kind

01:11:34   of setup where they've got a really good general purpose thing that costs a reasonable price. It's

01:11:40   not ever going to be the low price leader because that's not Apple, but a reasonable price. And the

01:11:44   fact is on the iPhone front, they do it with old models and on the Mac front, they haven't gotten

01:11:49   there. And but the iPad on the iPad front they have. And I hope that that's the model in the end

01:11:56   because they do need to make Apple products available for people who can't afford the pro

01:12:02   products to still have Apple products and get into the funnel where they start spending money

01:12:08   on services and all of those things. They can't just turn their back on people who are outside

01:12:13   the Apple ecosystem and not let them in. And for more on this, you can tune into my new podcast

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01:14:07   Our thanks to Luna Display for their support of this show and Relay FM. iPhone XR. Now this one,

01:14:16   you had your review out before the event. We haven't had the time to get to it yet,

01:14:21   but we really should because it is a product that deserves discussion, right?

01:14:26   Yeah, sure. Let's talk about it really quickly. Let's start with the price because this is the

01:14:33   big headline everywhere is cheapest iPhone, budget iPhone, right? It's not cheap. No, it's priced

01:14:40   like the old Plus phones were priced when they were the, you know, which was the step up the

01:14:45   more expensive iPhone. This less expensive iPhone two years ago was the most expensive iPhone.

01:14:50   That is wild. Is it budget? No, it's not budget. Is it worth it? I think yes. And I don't think I

01:14:59   told you this. I have one. Did I tell you this? When I was in Canada, I bought a XR and I bought

01:15:07   it for two reasons. One, I really wanted to try it because I'm fascinated by it. And two, I'm going

01:15:14   to give it to a family member for Christmas. So I got the coral too because I, like you, believe

01:15:21   that it is the ultimate color. I'm a little bit in love with this phone. It's really good. Because

01:15:29   every time I use it, I forget about all of its downsides, except a couple, which I'll get to.

01:15:35   And I kind of feel like I really love the way this thing looks and I kind of wish I could use it as my

01:15:42   phone every day. Because here are the things about it, right? And I know you agree. The bezels are

01:15:48   bigger and it is thicker, but you lose kind of sense of that very quickly. Like it is heavier,

01:15:57   it is thicker, the bezels are bigger, but after like 10 minutes, you kind of forget.

01:16:02   Oh yeah, no, it's a, you forget very quickly. And it does, you know, it's in sort of in between the

01:16:08   XS and the XS Max. It's a big phone. Having used the X for a while, I'm so adapted to having a

01:16:13   slightly larger phone that it's less of a jump to the XR than it used to be. I, you know, I still

01:16:19   prefer the X size, but the XR size is nice. And it is, again, is $749 a budget price? It is not.

01:16:31   However, I will say if you max this thing out, it's still $100 cheaper than the base model XS.

01:16:38   Like, so, so my conversation is with people who are thinking about buying one of these for the

01:16:45   holidays is very much sort of like, um, start with a XR, like go to the store and hold the XR

01:16:52   in your hand and see if you like it because it is not necessarily cheap, but is it the best

01:17:00   deal? Is it the best value of the three new iPhones? And undeniably yes is the answer there.

01:17:09   It is really good. It is a really good phone. It is not. Remember a year ago when we were,

01:17:15   there were these rumors about like the cheap LCD, um, iPhone 10 knockoff thing. It is not that

01:17:22   phone. It is, it is. This is not a cheap plastic iPhone 10 knockoff. This is a really nice phone

01:17:33   that would have, this would have melted people's brains if this had been the iPhone 10 last year.

01:17:38   Yeah. I, this is the iPhone nine, right? Like it really is because this is the iPhone nine.

01:17:45   It is so close to the 10, but like all it maintains is the screen really, right? Like

01:17:51   the screen is the only thing that is holding this back if you would call it that, right?

01:17:56   The screen is fantastic, but it's just the technology. The technology isn't the same

01:18:01   and it was removed 3d touch, right? Which they obviously couldn't get to work with the liquid

01:18:05   retina display for whatever reason. Yeah. There's a lot of work that goes into getting it as close

01:18:09   to the edge as possible because that close to the edge look with the curved edges, that's an

01:18:13   OLED thing. They did it on the 10 because OLED can be done that way. And then they're like, well,

01:18:18   could we do it with an LCD screen? And the answer is yeah, but it's, it's complicated, right? And

01:18:24   one of the things they seem to have given up is the 3d touch because of the added complexity of

01:18:28   getting that as close to the edge as possible with the curved edges and the cutout and all of that

01:18:32   stuff, which is harder to do on an LCD screen than an OLED. And I would say that, I mean, really,

01:18:39   is it, can I see a huge difference between this LCD and the OLED? I will tell you honestly, no.

01:18:47   I'm using apps that have the true black, right? So I use tweetbot in true black. And I will tell

01:18:52   you right now, it is very, very hard. I have to be really, really looking to find a difference.

01:18:59   I mean, you can see if once you know what you're looking for, when you're looking for that shimmer

01:19:04   of a LED backlight on a black background, you can see it. But I would say you have to be educated

01:19:14   enough to look for it and you have to be paying attention. It's a great screen. I didn't, I had

01:19:20   no point and it's a lower resolution screen than the, than the plus was even because remember the

01:19:24   plus was at like a 3x scale and then it was scaled down in hardware because it didn't have that many

01:19:29   pixels. This one is a 2x screen exactly, which I would argue actually makes it a better screen

01:19:35   because it's not scaling. It's, it's native at 2x. I would also argue that since it's an RGB screen

01:19:41   because it's LCD, it is arguably as good a screen as the OLED because the OLED has the pen tile

01:19:48   pixels, which are different. I mean, and you get into a lot of details about how displays are

01:19:54   created, but what I'm saying in the end is this is a really good screen and you're not going to pick

01:19:59   it up and go, "Oh, this is crap." Like it's not going to happen. It is the best. And in fact,

01:20:03   again, if it was released last year and there was no iPhone 10, this was the iPhone 9, it would have

01:20:08   melted people's brains because it would, it is better than any iPhone screen made other than the

01:20:16   10s. And you can see it, like it really is. It's wonderful. Like it is wonderful. The fact that it

01:20:22   can sometimes make me forget that it's not an OLED shows how good of an LCD screen this is.

01:20:28   And it really is. And I'm super excited for the iPad screen, right? Like, because I wonder how

01:20:33   great that's going to look too. I know that the liquid retina isn't necessarily screen technology,

01:20:37   but the, I think the iPad screen is probably better. Well, it is better, right? So like,

01:20:42   I'm super excited for that. So we all know, right? It has most of the same technology as the 10s,

01:20:48   right? The A12 face ID, the primary camera is the same, has smart HDR, wireless charging,

01:20:53   all that sort of stuff. We know that the screen is different. The other things that are different,

01:20:57   we know that it doesn't have a telephoto lens. So I will say I would miss it. I use the 2X lens a

01:21:03   lot. Do you? I do too. Yeah. So I will miss that. Um, it does software portrait mode only on the

01:21:09   main camera. It's mostly fine. Um, it actually has some, some benefits, right? It has better

01:21:15   low light performance in portrait mode. You actually get more of the, uh, more of the

01:21:19   environment in portrait mode because it doesn't have to use the 2X camera. But honestly, I think

01:21:24   I may be, I may be pretty alone in this. I don't think that there are many people like me, but I

01:21:30   would tell you right now, one of the main reasons I could not use this phone is the lack of 3D touch.

01:21:35   I use 3D touch a lot, Jason, and I miss it a lot. And you miss it because the only things I use 3D

01:21:41   touch for, they put the haptic touch stuff in for. So it's like, I only really use 3D touch for

01:21:46   things like, um, turning on the flashlight from the lock screen and the camera from the lock screen.

01:21:51   And those all work with haptic touch. So you're doing things on your iPhone normally using 3D

01:21:56   touch that are not mimicked by haptic touch. Yep. So no notification previews. I use previewing

01:22:02   the notifications with 3D touch that doesn't exist here. You have to do a swiping and then,

01:22:06   and I find it too frustrating to press swipe and then view. I don't like it. Uh, I use

01:22:11   peak and pop a lot on messages on tweets to see threads. Like I use it all the time. And even the,

01:22:17   the, you know, like the, the long press on the space bar for the text cursor, whilst it exists,

01:22:21   it doesn't work as reliably for me and it doesn't feel right. You know, like I'm used to pressing

01:22:28   into a screen of feeling something. And on this phone, a lot of the time I'm reminded that I'm

01:22:33   just pressing into glass that doesn't move. And that is a, it's a big frustration for me. And,

01:22:37   and I believe honestly, that you should know if this would bother you, you shouldn't not get this

01:22:44   phone just because it doesn't have it. I am somebody who uses 3D touch a lot every single day

01:22:50   when I'm using my iPhone. So, you know, cause it's funny because the iPad has a lot of these

01:22:56   features. So like the notification previews, the iPad does this and I can't understand why Apple

01:23:02   did not put that on the XR as well. Um, I find that very peculiar. Like if you long press a

01:23:07   notification on the iPad, you get a preview for it. You don't on the XR. And I find that weird.

01:23:11   Eric Meyer My understanding is that there's some sort of like what they were able to do

01:23:16   that isn't, um, that there isn't already a long press for, but there are also some missing pieces

01:23:22   where I wonder if some of that will get added later. I, my gut feeling is that, um, they're

01:23:28   trying to unify, um, the idea of non 3D touch devices having haptic touch. I'm a little surprised

01:23:37   honestly, that it isn't on the iPad pro because why not? Like just, just every other device can

01:23:44   have haptic touch, can have a touch and hold instead of a 3D touch.

01:23:47   David Tingman Maybe they didn't want to regress yet because as I say, right, there are things

01:23:51   that the iPad does that the XR doesn't. Maybe they'll wait until they can make a phone screen

01:23:56   that can do it all or their software does it all. And then they'll maybe we'll just brand it as

01:24:00   haptic touch everywhere. Maybe that's why, I guess we'll see. So the big question right now is who is

01:24:08   this phone for? And I really believe that unless you have a super compelling reason to go for a

01:24:15   XS, this is the phone you should get. It looks great. It comes in wonderful colors. This is a

01:24:21   really cool phone. Like the XS stuff, it's like, oh, it's real luxury. These are really cool. I

01:24:28   think. Yeah, I think this is a, uh, like the MacBook Air, I would say this is a place to start.

01:24:37   And if it's too big, then you say, well, okay, you can go get the 8 or you can get the XS.

01:24:41   If you have, if you're really sad about 3D touch, you're sad about the telephoto lens,

01:24:46   you can go to XS. David Tingman

01:24:49   Or if you feel like for whatever reason you want luxury or you want the biggest screen,

01:24:54   then go for it. David Tingman

01:24:55   Or you prefer the look of those and all that. But, but yes, I agree. This is, this does not feel,

01:24:59   it's funny. And again, the Air is kind of like this too. This does not feel like a compromise.

01:25:05   This is, this is why one of the reasons why, um, Apple's products are not cheaper than they are.

01:25:13   And this is, I don't mean to say this as an accident. It's a choice that Apple makes,

01:25:17   which is this does not, this XS and the Air is like this too. This is not a cheap product. This

01:25:23   does not like going back to that rumor. This is not the cheap phone. This is a really, really good,

01:25:30   I would say premium quality phone that happens to be way cheaper than the other phones that Apple's

01:25:37   making that are, that are, uh, the, in the thousand dollar and up range. And that's why I keep saying

01:25:44   my standard line for the XR is go to an Apple store and hold it in your hand. You'll, you'll

01:25:48   understand the size. You'll understand the weight. You'll, you'll, um, you'll know if it is

01:25:53   comfortable in your hand. You get to see those colors in person. You need to see the colors in

01:25:57   person to decide what you want to do there. It's hard to choose about seeing them because

01:26:01   there's some weird mismatches. You got to see them. Yeah. Um, because the anodized aluminum

01:26:05   doesn't do the same thing that the glass back does. But, uh, I, I really recommend that if

01:26:11   people are thinking about getting a new iPhone, that they go to the Apple store and they spend

01:26:14   some time there because the 10 AR may not be for you, but I feel like the 10 R is a good,

01:26:21   it's like your best first step is see how you feel about this one, because this one,

01:26:25   you can get at 128 of a, of storage for a hundred dollars less than the 10 S is to start

01:26:32   with minimum storage. So like, if, if you're at all price sensitive, but you want a brand new phone,

01:26:40   you're going to use it for awhile, you know, try it, pick it up. And you may also go like,

01:26:44   Oh, some 49, this is nice, but I'd really rather get this other one. That's cheaper. That's,

01:26:48   that's good too. That's fine too. But, um, I think I feel like it's the starting point and,

01:26:54   um, I wasn't quite expecting that, but as much as I like the 10 S models, I think they're very nice.

01:26:59   The 10 R is really good and it's way, way, way cheaper than they are. And, um, so it's got the

01:27:07   value. It's got the best value for sure. Bringing all those, not all, but almost all of those 10

01:27:12   features down to a lot less than a 10 phone, $250 less. All right. Let's round out this action

01:27:19   packed episode of some hashtag ask upgrade questions before we do, let's thank Squarespace

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01:28:44   this show. Squarespace, make your next move, make your next website. Our first #AskUpgrade

01:28:50   question comes from Tim and Tim wants to know, Jason, with the release of the new Mac Minis,

01:28:56   which desktop Mac would you recommend to a MacBook Pro owner who doesn't already have a monitor,

01:29:02   keyboard and mouse? - You should get an iMac.

01:29:07   - You should get an iMac, right? If you're coming from the MacBook Pro and you would need to buy a

01:29:12   monitor anyway, you've got to get an iMac. I mean, it's difficult because the iMacs should have an

01:29:18   update, but I will say as an owner and daily user of a 2015, late 2015, Retina 5K 27-inch iMac,

01:29:28   this thing is more than powerful enough currently. - Yeah, I would do that rather than, I mean,

01:29:33   because the idea is what desktop Mac. You could get an external monitor and a Mac Mini and then

01:29:38   plug the MacBook Pro into it when you wanted to do that. But I think I'm assuming that since you

01:29:42   want a desktop Mac, you want a desktop Mac. So don't worry about an external monitor or

01:29:46   anything like that. Get an iMac. The iMacs are powerful. You can choose your power that you want.

01:29:52   You can get the 4K, you can get the 5K, you can get the iMac Pro if you really want to, but

01:29:56   that's the best value. That's the best value in buying a desktop Mac because you get the computer

01:30:05   and the monitor all in one. Whereas the Mac Mini is not as good a value. It gives you flexibility.

01:30:11   You can choose your own external display and all of that, but the Apple display,

01:30:14   the Retina Apple displays on the iMacs are fantastic. They are very, very high quality.

01:30:20   So that's the best monitor you're going to get. And it comes with a computer that's really fast.

01:30:24   So I think that's a pretty simple answer. Get an iMac. If all other things are equal,

01:30:30   why not just get an iMac? Nathan wants to know, "When do we think we'll see a Bridge

01:30:36   keyboard for the new iPad Pros?" Not soon enough is my answer. Not soon enough. I'm interested to

01:30:43   see what they're going to do with this, assuming that Bridge tries to make one, because I think

01:30:47   there is still a hole in this market, as Federico talked about on Connected last week, a hole in the

01:30:52   market for a laptop keyboard instead of what Apple is doing, which is still a little bit,

01:31:00   you know, it's not this, it's still a smart keyboard and it's not quite the same as having

01:31:05   that laptop with the infinite adjustability. I imagine that the first thing that the Bridge

01:31:12   people are going to do on November 7th is get one of these and look at the magnets and see how

01:31:17   strong the magnetic hold is, because one thought I had is they could make a shell with magnets,

01:31:24   and that you would lay, basically snap the iPad onto the magnets and it would hold,

01:31:33   and the question is how strong would that hold be? Could that be enough to hold the iPad to the

01:31:38   Bridge keyboard? The problem with the Bridge is it's currently constructed, they've got those clips,

01:31:43   and the clips go over the bezel part, and there's kind of not a bezel part anymore,

01:31:47   so the other way they could redesign it is by creating something that is very narrow and that

01:31:51   maybe clings to the sides a little bit, but I think it would be hard for them to do that,

01:31:56   so, but I hope they are on it on Wednesday and are immediately, you know, going to figure out

01:32:02   how they could build something, because I think there's still a market for something that turns

01:32:06   the iPad Pro into more of a laptop feel than what the smart keyboard can do.

01:32:15   Mickey wants to know, with the 12.9 inch iPad getting a smaller size instead of a bigger screen,

01:32:21   what do you guys think is the upper limit of screen size for an iOS device? Do you think

01:32:25   it will always be 12.9 or is it someday going to get bigger? On an infinite time scale?

01:32:29   I think it'll get bigger. On an infinite time scale, everything will get bigger,

01:32:33   yeah, I think it'll get bigger. I think they're making the right decision for now,

01:32:36   but I think later that those screens are going to get bigger.

01:32:40   Beyond a certain size, you have human interface problems where it's like,

01:32:44   does this need to be on a table, does this need to be on a desk? It's not something you're

01:32:47   necessarily putting in your bag at that point. Although, you know, they make the bezel smaller,

01:32:54   you could argue that the other thing they could do is make a bigger one like the size of the old

01:32:58   12.9. They chose to go the other direction, but I had this wild theory, which I don't think is

01:33:03   accurate, but I'm going to just throw it out there, which is what if Apple made an external display

01:33:09   that was beautiful in retina for the Mac Mini and the Mac Pro, and what if one of the features of it

01:33:17   was that it also did multi-touch, if you attached a multi-touch operating system,

01:33:21   then Apple can make an external display and you just attach it by USB-C to the iPad Pro,

01:33:26   and then you've got an external iPad monitor with UI and multi-touch. Wouldn't that be great?

01:33:33   I don't think we're there. I don't think we're there, but it would not surprise me if the

01:33:37   in the end result is not a Surface Studio, but is a multi-touch display external to an iPad.

01:33:48   Also, I had another wacky thought, which I'll share now because this is Ask Upgrade and it's

01:33:53   the place for wackiness, which is what if you... You've been having a lot of thoughts recently.

01:34:00   I know I got a lot of thoughts, and I share them here on a podcast. I had a vision when I was

01:34:06   waking up from sleep and it was WWDC and they were announcing that they were going to do ARM Macs

01:34:12   and they were going to release them later in the year, but the developers could get access to the

01:34:21   Mac OS version for ARM today. And what they would do is... And you can install it on your iPad Pro.

01:34:29   And everybody's like, "Well, how would that work?" And it's like, what you do is you attach an

01:34:33   external monitor to it and then you lay the iPad Pro down and it turns into a keyboard and trackpad.

01:34:39   So the screen is the screen and then the iPad becomes like a virtual keyboard and trackpad.

01:34:46   And I thought that is a terrible idea and would be hilarious if that happened. I don't think any of

01:34:51   these things are going to happen. The weird thing is we live in a world where they could happen if

01:34:55   Apple wanted to do them, but they're probably terrible ideas and Apple won't do them.

01:34:58   Peter wants to know how he could share a monitor, wireless keyboard and mouse between a new Mac Mini

01:35:03   and a MacBook Pro so they can toggle between them. Is there a software equivalent of the old KVM

01:35:07   switch? I have used a product many years ago, but to some success called Synergy, which is a product

01:35:14   that says it will do just this. I mean, I know it used to. I don't know how good it is today,

01:35:19   but this is something you install it on a couple of machines and you can use your mouse and keyboard

01:35:23   between them all. I don't know anything about KVM switches at all. I think they still make KVM

01:35:30   switches too, but I don't know anything about this. Sorry. I used that product a long time ago.

01:35:37   I cannot vouch for it in 2018, but in like 2012 it was brilliant. Gareth finally wants to know,

01:35:44   not finally as if like Gareth's been trying a lot, but like this is the last question today.

01:35:48   Do you think it's strange that Apple specifically called out the iPad Mini on stage despite

01:35:53   it not having an update since 2015? Do you think it's more likely that Apple will now update the

01:35:59   Mini or does it mean it's more likely it's going to die? I did think it was weird that they on more

01:36:04   than one occasion spoke about the iPad Mini last week. So the bummer about having Ming-Chi Kuo,

01:36:10   or as we like to call him on this show, Roger Kuo, our friend Roger, codename Roger, Ming-Chi Kuo,

01:36:16   like the week before the event said Apple is working in addition to AirPods and other stuff

01:36:23   that was not at this event. Apple is working on an update to the iPad Mini and everybody went,

01:36:28   "What?" But we live in a world where there's a new MacBook Air, so anything is possible,

01:36:33   and a new Mac Mini, anything is possible. The sad thing about that report is if he hadn't done that,

01:36:39   and suddenly the iPad Mini is mentioned in all the product line shots and they mentioned it on

01:36:43   stage a couple of times, we would all be like deep into the theories about like, what does it mean?

01:36:49   Does it mean it's coming back? I think maybe it means it's coming back. Why would they mention it

01:36:53   if they were just intending to have it disappear? All of which I think is accurate. I think

01:36:57   absolutely they mentioned it because it's not going away. I think it would have vanished from

01:37:04   their product shots if it wasn't going to be something going forward. And of course,

01:37:09   Ming-Chi Kuo has already spoiled the fun by saying, yes, they are absolutely going to do an

01:37:13   iPad Mini and release it. And I would imagine it will be like the small counterpart to the existing

01:37:23   iPad and that it'll do like crayon and pencil support and stuff like that and be like down there

01:37:30   next to the iPad and the low end of the product line. So if you would like to send in a question

01:37:37   for us to answer on the show, you can send in a tweet with the hashtag #askupgrade. Remember,

01:37:41   if you have any iPad Pro related questions, send those in because we should both have

01:37:44   products by then. Fingers crossed for delivery companies is all I'm going to say on the matter.

01:37:52   If you want to ask any questions to open the show, #SnellTalk to do that,

01:37:58   you can go to SixColors.com. That's where you can find all of Jason's reviews that we've been

01:38:02   talking about today, including more. I'm sure there's going to be even more wonderful stuff

01:38:06   over at SixColors.com. Jason is @JSnell on Twitter. I am @IMyke, I-M-Y-K-E on Twitter and Instagram.

01:38:14   You can find this show at Relay.fm/shows where you can find many more. Thanks again to Fresh

01:38:20   Books and Luna Display and Squarespace for their support of this show. And we'll be back next time.

01:38:25   Until then, say goodbye Jason Snow. All the great Macs!