217: People in Dongletown Want to Dance


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:08   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 217. Today's show is brought to you by Lunar Display,

00:00:16   PDF Pen from Smile and HelloFresh. Today there has been an Apple event, so we've got all of the news

00:00:21   and coverage and analysis of that. My name is Myke Hurley, and of course I am joined by man on the

00:00:28   ground, Mr. Jason Snell. Hello, Jason Snell. I'm actually up in the air, I'm in a skyscraper in

00:00:32   Manhattan, Myke. Look at you, fancy. Yeah. We've got some fancy stuff going on. Now let me talk

00:00:36   about the weather when you're above, no, let's not do that instead. No, Jason Snell, nobody cares

00:00:40   about that. I have a question for you for our #SnellTalk this week. Oh, yes, yes. Hello,

00:00:43   Upgrade Ian Myke, oh, excellent. Upgrade Ian Myke wants to know, how does an East Coast Time event

00:00:50   make Jason feel? Like, do you feel tired? Do you feel excited? Are you more productive,

00:00:57   less productive? What is the feeling of an East Coast event because Apple's event was in New York

00:01:02   today? First off, if I was in California not attending this event, it would make me feel

00:01:06   sleepy because it would have happened at seven in the morning. But I am in New York City, and so

00:01:12   I feel fine, I guess. I mean, it's going to be a long day today because I'm flying home tonight.

00:01:17   That's going to be a very long day, and I got up really early yesterday, so I probably don't have

00:01:21   as much sleep. But what I was saying to some of my fellow attendees who came from the New York area

00:01:29   is that they're experiencing what I experience when there's an Apple event in the Bay Area,

00:01:35   which is you sleep in your own bed, but you have to get out of bed at a weird hour and your family's

00:01:40   still asleep, and you got to drive or take the train or whatever. And I just rolled out of bed

00:01:45   this morning and walked two blocks to the Apple event. You're in a hotel, like it doesn't make a

00:01:50   difference, right? Yeah. So on that level, I mean, yeah, there's all the extra travel and all that,

00:01:54   but actually on the day of the event, it's super convenient. And this is why when they do WWDC down

00:02:00   in San Jose, I don't even... I try to stay in a hotel for a couple of nights because it's

00:02:05   further down there and it's a multiple day thing, so it sort of makes sense. So that's the advantage

00:02:11   of it. The disadvantage is, yeah, I got up at four in the morning and I won't get home until

00:02:16   yesterday and I won't get home till after midnight today. And it's a couple of really long days,

00:02:20   it'd be very tiring. But in terms of this morning, I was kind of ready to go because I got a proper

00:02:29   night's sleep and then just a short walk to the event location, which is really interesting

00:02:33   event location too, which we should talk about at some point because this is, again, Apple is

00:02:39   picking a venue. Anywhere in the world, Apple can pick a venue and stage an event there. And like

00:02:45   the Chicago event earlier this year, they picked an interesting place. So we will talk about that.

00:02:50   But if you want to send in a question for any episode to get us started, you can always tweet

00:02:55   with the hashtag SnailTalk and that goes into a wonderful document that we're able to collect

00:03:00   and pick from in the future. And I thank Upgrading Myke for his great suggestion,

00:03:04   for a question to open this week's show. Jason, we must start these events as we always do,

00:03:10   these event episodes by talking about the draft. So on our last episode, which was in Chicago,

00:03:16   which is a wonderful episode, I'm really pleased that we got to do that. It was wonderful to have

00:03:20   so many Upgradients come out and see the show. That was a really, really great time. Thank you

00:03:24   to everyone who came. Thank you to Steven and Alex again for joining us on the episode. We had a

00:03:28   really, really great time. But we did do a draft. And the draft was foretold that Jason Snail would

00:03:34   obliterate Myke Hurley. This is what everyone believes. This is what you believed. It's never

00:03:39   true because everybody was convinced that you destroyed me in the previous draft. And that did,

00:03:44   that really didn't happen. Exactly. What we have learned is everybody's super confident when they're

00:03:47   making their picks. It's what happens on the day. Oh yeah. What did happen on the day, Jason Snail?

00:03:52   Who took the win today? So my scoring, it's either six to five or five to four based on a very

00:03:58   particular question that we should probably solve. But either way, whether it was six to five or five

00:04:03   to four, it's you with one more point than me. Yes! Myke Hurley is the winner. You didn't think

00:04:10   I could do it Upgradients, but I did it. I won. I won, Jason. I cannot tell you how excited I was

00:04:15   about this because we've now tied. We're tied. We're tied to two each. On the events for the year,

00:04:20   which just makes me feel good because I'm happy the iPad really helped me out, right? Like that

00:04:25   was, I wasn't really much because the way the event was stacked and I had my fingers crossed

00:04:30   and it came through. So let's run through these real quick, right, shall we? Yeah, okay, definitely.

00:04:34   So we'll go on your side first. New iPads to have face ID? Check. Check. Photoshop for iPad? Check.

00:04:41   Yep. So this is one of the ones of contention. New smart connector on the iPad Pro? There is one,

00:04:47   but it wasn't clear. I don't think it was very clear at all during the presentation. They had

00:04:52   images of the thing and where it was and so there was an implication, but they didn't say we have a

00:04:57   new smart connector just as they didn't say they have no headphone jack. Exactly. Which is one that

00:05:04   you picked. So that's the point of contention, which is, and I think it's something for us to

00:05:08   revisit because you could make a strong argument that if a product was introduced and shown off

00:05:14   and one of the features it had was this, that it's, I don't know if it's very fun to have a

00:05:19   draft where if they don't mention it out loud, it doesn't count. Well, we've picked that rule

00:05:24   for very specific reasons because we've had many problems in the past. I actually believe that the

00:05:28   rule should stand as it is because it allows for way less ambiguity when making the picks.

00:05:34   Like if they don't show it or it's not on a slide clearly, I don't think the point should count. So

00:05:38   I don't know. I think if the argument would be, if it's in a product, it's a feature of a product

00:05:43   that is mentioned and that is introduced on stage, but they don't mention that product. You could

00:05:49   maybe make the argument that there's an extension that happens there, but well, this is why we

00:05:52   discuss it though, right? Like I could go either way on these. The danger of going your way is

00:05:58   you've got one of those like, okay, now we need to look at the video that they show. Like you can see,

00:06:03   do we see the absence of a headphone jack? Well, we do, but can you prove an absence? Did we see

00:06:08   all possible places the headphone jack could be? And likewise with the smart connector, like,

00:06:13   do we ever see the smart connector? No, but we see the thing attached on the back where the smart

00:06:18   connector would be. So again, I think you could parse it either way. Fortunately, we have rarely

00:06:24   needed to, I feel like we are really good about resolving our own issues. And in this case,

00:06:29   the answer is you can count them or not. It doesn't, fortunately, it doesn't change the

00:06:32   outcome at all because each of us had one of these. So, you know, if we want to go by the

00:06:37   letter of the law, I would say that makes the score five to four. Yep. So I would say we keep

00:06:45   the rules as they are and we just continue to debate as we have. I mean, because I think that

00:06:49   the rules, it's easier this way than just to say like, we'll just see. So new sub $1,000 laptop

00:06:56   introduced. There was a laptop, it wasn't priced there. I'm going to have more to say about this.

00:07:00   I am very surprised that Apple has basically, I mean, apparently the old MacBook Air is still

00:07:06   for sale, which I think is interesting because the alternative here was for Apple to say,

00:07:10   hey, guess what, everybody? You like that MacBook Air so much, we made a new one that's more

00:07:14   expensive and the old one's gone, but the old one's still there apparently for a while at least.

00:07:19   New AirPods, no new AirPods. Okay. So let's, new AirPods and new iMacs I both picked. And this is

00:07:26   the thing that even as I was picking them on stage, even before I picked them on stage,

00:07:30   I thought to myself, this is risky. And this is the calculation that I made, which is I wanted

00:07:36   to please the audience and not be boring by continuing to pick iPad features and Mac mini

00:07:41   features. And even though we didn't have any good intel about these things being in this event,

00:07:46   I picked them because I wanted my picks to have some variety and I didn't want to bore

00:07:49   the audience. And I knew I was taking a risk. I knew it. And it's absolutely what happened.

00:07:54   Well, that was the trap I fell into for the previous draft.

00:07:58   Right? Yeah. You want to be entertaining and not, and then what happens, Myke, is that we're going

00:08:02   to go back and forth on this because if you win, you're like, okay, I'm a winner. I can be

00:08:06   entertaining next time. And you lose and you're like, I am going to be really boring and win this.

00:08:11   And that's how you go back. That's why we tied the art. It was used in a video. It was the opening

00:08:15   video. Yeah. And 4k external display support. How about 5k? I know. How about 25k is all the k's.

00:08:22   All the k's. So that puts you at four points as we can agree on. I've got new Apple pencil.

00:08:28   There is no headphone jack on the iPad. Again, we will discuss this in detail in a little bit, but

00:08:32   we couldn't really see that as clear in the presentation. So it was not scored.

00:08:37   There is a new Mac mini. The new iPads have USB-C only. The new laptop does not have a USB-A port.

00:08:44   Face ID works both horizontally and vertically. In all orientations. All orientations, which I

00:08:50   didn't expect. There was a jump ahead one. There was no promotion for the iPhone 10 R,

00:08:54   which I was surprised about. It got mentioned, but in a very strange context, which is just that

00:08:58   its screen is like the iPad pro screen in that it's a liquid retina display. And that wasn't at

00:09:03   all what I envisioned. That is not promotion. It was promotion, but that's a different thing.

00:09:08   And the last one is demo of an app, another app, a big app debut from a major company, not a game.

00:09:15   So there were two things here which were, which basically they amount to like half a point each

00:09:21   kind of in the way that I'm thinking. So AutoCAD was shown, which is a brand new app from Autodesk,

00:09:27   but it wasn't demoed by an individual. And then Adobe had a new app that they showed off, which

00:09:33   was turning Photoshop files into AR, but I don't know how big that is. So I don't know about that

00:09:38   one. So I think I could go either way on it. Um, and luckily I don't have to debate it because I

00:09:43   still won with or without it. So yeah. Yeah. And I, I think that's a very clear no-go because

00:09:49   there were only two demos. One was a game and one was Photoshop, which is the another big app debut.

00:09:55   So I feel like, yes, unless you, the, Oh, and we also have this AR project thing that we added on

00:10:00   that we'll take our Photoshop file and put it in AR. I, you know, again, it doesn't matter,

00:10:04   but I don't think you, I don't think you get that point. So we'll, we'll score it at five, four,

00:10:09   five, four just came in there. So we tie, we tie for the year. Yep. It's my favorite way to win.

00:10:16   I consider this a win for me because I don't think anyone expected this. So it's a personal victory

00:10:22   because I've lost every other year. So I will take it. So the Apple event is all wrapped up.

00:10:27   What was the, uh, the environment like today? You were in the Brooklyn Academy of Music. Is

00:10:32   that correct? Uh, yes, that's right. So it's in like a big opera house, uh, auditorium theater,

00:10:38   like environment. What did you think of it all? How does it differ to some of the other places

00:10:43   that you go to? Well, it's, it's a theater, it's a small theater space. Um, the, well, I mean,

00:10:48   it's not small, but it's, it's not, you know, vast, like some of the places that Apple has

00:10:52   used in the past and the seats are tight, tight together and the rows are tight together. So it

00:10:57   was super cramped, but, um, beautiful setting. Um, they closed off multiple streets in Brooklyn.

00:11:03   This is about a block away from the Brooklyn Apple store, which is new, which is beautiful.

00:11:07   It's like a wedge shaped building. Um, it looks really great. And I think Apple is comfortable in

00:11:15   that neighborhood because they know it from the, from the retail store there. And so there's the

00:11:20   theater. They closed off two other streets running past the theater and they closed off, uh, the

00:11:26   street between the theater and some restaurants that are over on the other side of the street

00:11:30   there. And actually when we got there, they had us go into basically like a, a Mexican restaurant

00:11:36   that they had turned into a place where you could, you know, stay warm and get coffee and a breakfast

00:11:41   burrito and whatever before the event. Was it like a business? Like someone's business? Yeah. And

00:11:46   they just took it over for the morning. That's so funny. And, and, you know, obviously paid them off

00:11:51   and all that, but they closed all these streets, NYPD everywhere. They closed all the streets.

00:11:55   What a payday for that restaurant though, right? Some security line stuff. Um, that,

00:12:02   that is a little unusual because we're out on the streets of a big city and the level of control

00:12:07   they wanted to have was a little bit greater. Um, right across the way was the, um, was the venue.

00:12:13   And then the hands-on area was actually built inside a different location that was down the

00:12:18   block. And it looked like it, I think somebody said that's where the Brooklyn flea market is.

00:12:24   And they took that building over and it has a big interior space and they built like a,

00:12:29   a whole like platform level that was clearly built by Apple for the hands-on area. And that's where

00:12:36   the hands-on area was. So it was really interesting in that Apple basically took over a block and

00:12:40   several streets in the middle of Brooklyn. So why do you think even like, cause this seems like a

00:12:47   really big to do, right? Like getting all of this stuff arranged and, and hiring out all these

00:12:53   different places and making all these adaptations. Why do you think Apple held this event in New York?

00:12:58   I think Apple is currently in a place where they like mixing it up and, and taking their events

00:13:05   to different places. And, um, you know, one of the downsides of not doing Mac world expo is that,

00:13:14   you know, you can just end up being Apple events on campus and occasionally down the road a little

00:13:19   bit. And I think maybe they made a decision that while they were going to be at home at the Steve

00:13:24   jobs theater, they were going to be open to doing other events in other places rather than having

00:13:29   every event event be at the Steve jobs theater. So we have now this year, as we know from our draft

00:13:34   scoring, I've had four Apple events, one at the Steve jobs theater, one at the McHenry convention

00:13:40   center for WWDC and then one in Chicago and one in New York. And I'm wondering if this is just

00:13:44   the pattern now is that Apple is going to do some events in other places just because they can. And

00:13:50   because it's interesting, um, to be clear, they had, they get a lot of coverage in their home,

00:13:55   in their home region. Cause there's a lot of people in Silicon Valley and of course,

00:13:58   New York is a great place to go in Chicago is a great place to go. So, you know, but who knows,

00:14:02   they could do an event somewhere else. They could do an event in LA. They could do an event. I mean,

00:14:05   there's any number of places they could, they could go. Um, and they will get some people to

00:14:09   travel and other people won't. And, uh, but I think they like the variety of it. And honestly,

00:14:14   they're so big that they can do this, right? They're so big that they can take over a block

00:14:19   in the middle of Brooklyn and they have one of these events that are organized these things,

00:14:24   right? Like they, I'm sure they have an entire team. They do, you know, but presumably those

00:14:29   people are all in California. So they, they, there's a lot more travel. I mean, there's a

00:14:33   lot more that's going to go into something like this. Although I will say they did. Um, you know,

00:14:37   they staff a lot of it without the Apple retail employees. So, um, which is actually a lot of the

00:14:43   wild kind of cheering that you heard during the event. If you watched it, I think was from retail.

00:14:48   And the reason I say that I say that the retail employees were behind a lot of the,

00:14:52   a lot of the applause and wooing is because when Angela Ahrens went on stage, they got really loud.

00:14:59   Wild. That's the, that's the boss on stage, you know, cause they were literally, it was just like,

00:15:03   Oh, we added this new, um, this new program in the Apple store and people just went nuts. I'm like,

00:15:10   really? In fact, there was a moment when, uh, Lana Del Rey finished her first song and people

00:15:14   applauded. And I thought, well, if she wanted more applause, she should have mentioned, uh,

00:15:18   Apple retail, right? Like, wait a second. World renowned recording artist is on stage. And I think

00:15:24   the, the new today at Apple thing got a louder ovation because the retail people were so excited.

00:15:30   Was there any kind of overall, overall notes that you, you came across from the event,

00:15:36   like any other overriding overarching feelings about what happened? It felt like there was

00:15:41   more heavy lifting from Tim Cook this time than I've, uh, that I've seen in the past than I expected.

00:15:45   He, um, introduced the Mac and he talked a lot about the Mac. Um, and we can get to that, but we,

00:15:53   we all, you know, I was sitting there between. Puerto Rico and, uh, and Casey lists. And we had

00:16:01   a moment where it's like, he, wow, he's just talking about the Mac. And, um, yeah, I'm

00:16:06   wondering, like, we joke about how Tim loves his iPad and he talks about his iPad and there's this

00:16:10   question of like, does Tim even know about the Mac? He says, he's got an iMac on his desk, but

00:16:14   he, you know, he did a whole, a whole thing about the Mac and he talked about Mojave. He basically

00:16:20   did a little Mojave demo and it's exactly the sort of thing that you could imagine. He was like, Hey,

00:16:23   let's get Phil Schiller out here to talk about the Mac. So I don't have to. And that didn't happen.

00:16:27   He did that. He did that work. So I thought that was interesting. We can talk more about the Mac in

00:16:31   a minute. And then the other thing I just wanted to point out is the way that this was handled

00:16:35   was definitely, you know, people are handing off to other people. Um, that, you know, you kind of

00:16:40   burrow down on a product and then you'd have a demo and then, and then you come back out. And so

00:16:43   if you think of it like little, you know, levels of the presentation with Tim at the top. And I

00:16:48   noticed that at one point we went five levels down where like Tim handed it to John for the

00:16:53   iPad demo. And John brought out Sean who's in developer relations and she brought out Jamie

00:16:58   who's from Adobe and she brought it Chantal who is the demo person for Photoshop. And while Chantal

00:17:03   was doing the Photoshop demo, I was thinking to myself, we're five layers into this burrito now.

00:17:08   Like this is where we're way, we're way, we are in the, we're, we have, Tim is the frosting,

00:17:14   but we are down at the, at the, I don't know what is the bottom layer, the pie crust or that

00:17:20   wouldn't be cake then. But anyway, it's a really weird cake. Well, it goes at the bottom of the

00:17:24   cake is more frosting. That's the problem. It's more frosting. It's a cake sandwich. Um, so I

00:17:28   just had that moment because what happened was then Chantal was like, I'll give it back to Jamie

00:17:33   and Jamie's like, well, okay, let me recap everything we just did. I'll give it back to

00:17:36   Sean. And she's like, well, isn't it great that there are apps on the iPad? Let's give it back

00:17:39   to John. And he's like, the iPad, it's awesome. Here's what the price is Tim. And then we like

00:17:43   that they have to do that, right. That they go in and go back out again. So, well, there's no other

00:17:47   way. I can't pass to Tim because then Tim's one level down. How does Tim pass back to Tim? We

00:17:52   can't do that. What, what, what happened to John? If Sean Pruden throws it to Tim, you're like,

00:17:57   Oh my God, what happened to John? Is he still in some other dimension presenting iPad pro until we

00:18:02   pull him out of there? So they got to, you got to close all your parentheses or the entire thing

00:18:07   falls apart. It's a house of cards. There were a lot of new presenters at the event. Um, and I

00:18:12   think everybody did really well. Um, I thought that they had a selection of great people. Uh,

00:18:18   there was the, the lady who showed off the Mac, I think her name was Laura, the Mac book air.

00:18:23   Yeah. She was my favorite. She was awesome. She was really, really good. She told a great story.

00:18:28   I thought that, but in general, I think they introduced a bunch of new people on stage today,

00:18:32   which was really great. I like to see fresh faces. Yeah. She was, um, she was a little nervous in the

00:18:37   like Craig Federighi original appearance kind of nerves where you could tell, you could tell it was

00:18:42   her first huge thing and she trained for it and she was not quite as assured, but you know, that's

00:18:48   what, what happens when you go on stage. I think any of us, if we were on stage at an Apple event

00:18:53   would, would get a little nervous and you know, you might type it's road trip and anything could

00:18:59   happen. Well, I mean, look at me last week, I get super nervous doing our live shows. I can't even

00:19:04   imagine what that would be like. Yeah. So before we get into talking about the Macs and the new iPad

00:19:10   pros, just note that iOS 12.1 has shipped today. Um, it is, uh, includes group FaceTime that is

00:19:17   now out and available to everyone. This was delayed from iOS 12, uh, dual SIM support on the 10R and

00:19:23   the 10S and 17U emoji. I have not yet downloaded iOS 12. It just shipped like, cause we were getting

00:19:31   ready to start, but I cannot wait for those new emoji, Jason. Very excited. Yeah, it's, it's good.

00:19:38   I I've been, I had it on one device and so I've been getting like real new emoji on that device

00:19:44   and not on any other device. So I'm ready for the fragmentation to end. Yeah, I'm ready for that.

00:19:48   And you know, you're in, you're in New York, so you can send loads of bagels to everybody

00:19:52   for like the last day or whatever. That'd be nice. Everyone will enjoy that. I'm sure. Sure.

00:19:56   All right. Today's episode is brought to you by our friends over at HelloFresh,

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00:21:34   HelloFresh.com/upgrade60 and use the promo code upgrade60. Our thanks to HelloFresh for their

00:21:42   support of this show and all of Relay FM. So let's start how it was started by talking about the Mac.

00:21:52   You excited, Jason Snell?

00:21:53   - I, you know, it is, I love the Mac. Like Tim does, Tim loves the Mac.

00:22:00   - Tim loves the Mac.

00:22:01   - Tim thinks the Mac is great. He's got good numbers to share about people who are new to the

00:22:06   Mac, especially in China. He wants to tell us that there are 100 million active Macs in the install

00:22:12   base, which is a milestone, he said. And most importantly, Tim is excited about the Mac and he

00:22:17   loves the Mac because it's number one in customer satisfaction.

00:22:21   - Anything that is number one in customer satisfaction is Tim's favorite product.

00:22:25   - That's what he wants. He wants customer set. He wants it now. And yeah, so it's nice to see Apple

00:22:31   spend some time. It's been a little while since we saw Apple spend some time on Macs. They didn't do

00:22:35   it at the last event at all. So it was nice to get that and to get Tim talking about it because again,

00:22:41   there is this perception that Tim is not really focused on the Mac. And so getting him to say

00:22:46   say things about the Mac on stage, I think was, they were trying to send a good message there.

00:22:50   - So I want to run through some quick stats of the new MacBook Air, and then we can talk about

00:22:57   a little bit of what they mean. So the new MacBook Air, which is just, it feels weird to say. I mean,

00:23:03   I will say it feels weird to say, like, I don't think I was expecting it to be called the MacBook

00:23:09   Air, but here we are anyway. It has a retina display, which is 13.3 inches. It has a brand

00:23:13   new industrial design. So it's got rid of the silver border and it's just a nice border like

00:23:18   the MacBook. It has two Thunderbolt 3 ports, a T2 chip, a third generation butterfly keyboard,

00:23:24   which is four times more stable. - Right, because that's again, they're trying to find ways to

00:23:29   extol the virtues of it. And I don't remember people saying, you know what the problem is with

00:23:35   Apple's keyboards? The keys are unstable. - Oh, my fingers are always sliding off.

00:23:39   - Yeah, my typing is inaccurate and the keys are unstable and it makes, like, again, is this a

00:23:47   solution in search of a problem? I don't really know why they keep talking about this. They've

00:23:52   got to find a reason why it's good. I noticed that, that once again, they're talking about key

00:23:57   stability, which it's true. It's just such a strange thing and I'm not sure anybody really

00:24:04   cares about it. - Does third gen mean different to the ones that were just in the MacBook

00:24:09   Pro or is that the MacBook Pro ones? - It's the MacBook Pro ones, the third gen butterfly. The

00:24:13   first one was the original MacBook. The second gen was the MacBook Pro when it went to that keyboard

00:24:19   and then this is the third gen butterfly keyboard. - So new, more powerful processors, higher RAM and

00:24:24   SSD options. The new MacBook Air is 17% smaller in volume, 10% thinner and a quarter of a pound

00:24:31   lighter. It is made from 100% recycled aluminum. This is really exciting. People are really excited

00:24:37   about this but there is something that is kind of hilarious to me about this because they go through

00:24:43   the presentation talking about this and then the Mac Mini is made from this. And when they get the

00:24:48   iPad, they don't say the iPad is made from the 100% recycled aluminum. They say that the kind of

00:24:56   the offcuts, I guess, or like the parts of the manufacturing process that remove the aluminum to

00:25:03   create the iPad Pros is used in the new MacBooks. So basically what's happening here is they are

00:25:10   using the shavings of iPhones and iPads to make Macs now which is such a great metaphor, I think.

00:25:16   - I know, right? Yeah, it is. And they said it's like as a byproduct of our construction or

00:25:21   you know, our metal process. And then I was like, wait, what? And then they keep going.

00:25:26   - Where is this coming from? - Are you? Because it's not, what they aren't saying is that their

00:25:32   Macs are made from like old aluminum cans, right? That's not what they're saying.

00:25:36   - They're not saying that either. - No, no, it seems like it's a byproduct

00:25:40   of the process that they use for stainless or for aluminum in other products that use aluminum.

00:25:46   - Which is funny. - There's something so funny. It's really

00:25:49   funny to me. Like I wonder if like, you know, at some point by accident you get part of like

00:25:53   an iPhone XR, like just think, oh look, this has got a blob of orange in it. But it's just, it is

00:25:59   a great process. Like it does seem like something that is really important, but there is just that

00:26:04   beauty of that metaphor. I think the last big thing was a big surprise. I would never have

00:26:10   expected Touch ID in the MacBook Air. And it starts at $1,199. Jason, is this the MacBook

00:26:19   Air that we wanted? - Well, feature wise, I would say it is.

00:26:24   I love the MacBook Air. We've been talking a lot about how it was great and it needs to be replaced

00:26:28   and it's dead. - Yeah, this is a fantastic laptop.

00:26:31   - Apple did the other thing, which is having held it, like it's a MacBook Air. It feels like

00:26:37   a MacBook Air. It's shaped like a MacBook Air. It is undeniably a MacBook Air. It is smaller

00:26:42   because they've gotten rid of the huge bezel and all of that. And they've made it feel like a

00:26:46   modern Apple laptop. It is more functional than the MacBook. It is very similarly functional to the

00:26:54   MacBook Escape, right? But it's a MacBook Air with a retina display and with two USB-C ports

00:27:03   and a headphone jack. And it is, so it's, the old MacBook Air has what, two USB-A and mini

00:27:12   display port and HDMI maybe. I don't know if that has that or not. That's my wife's MacBook Air.

00:27:20   I have the 11, which has less stuff on it. - I think the regular MacBook Air, I don't think

00:27:24   has an HDMI on it. - No, okay. So anyway, it's maybe a little bit less functional and it's got

00:27:30   power. I guess that's the other keyboard is it's got a power MagSafe where this only has the two

00:27:35   ports and one of them needs to power it. But that all said, it is, I'm excited about it because I do

00:27:43   love the MacBook Air. I am surprised that Apple decided to revive it in this way. I do not believe

00:27:51   for a minute that when they announced the MacBook a few years ago that they intended to take this

00:27:57   path. I think this was literally Apple looking at people continuing to buy the MacBook Air

00:28:03   and realizing that they needed to just make a MacBook Air update that they just, they need to

00:28:08   go back on. I don't believe this was the plan all along at all. And I think that they would have

00:28:14   come up with something sooner if it was. I think that they had to change direction just as they

00:28:17   changed direction with the Mac Pro where they were just gonna do the iMac Pro and leave it there.

00:28:22   So I think this is a change on their part, but I think it's good. It looks really good.

00:28:26   The disappointment, and I lost a point in the draft for it, is that they couldn't get it. They

00:28:30   still couldn't get it under a thousand dollars, which again, it's not Apple's goal to be cheap.

00:28:36   Like I was reminded at several times during this presentation that Apple is not only not being

00:28:42   cheap, Apple is cranking up the price of everything a bit. And people can make arguments like, well,

00:28:49   it's about inflation and all that, and that might well be true, but Apple is cranking up the price.

00:28:54   They wanna increase the average selling price. And this is an example where even now at this

00:29:00   $1,199, which is the lowest price point Apple has ever had for a retina laptop, it's still $200 more

00:29:06   than the previous generation MacBook Air. And that is if you're somebody who is looking for

00:29:14   a laptop and you see anything above a thousand and you hesitate, that's not gonna stop. Like

00:29:21   the people who are buying the MacBook Air because they like the Air could get this one now, but the

00:29:26   people who are buying MacBook Air because it was $999, then they're gonna be asked to spend a couple

00:29:32   hundred more dollars. So I don't love that about it. I was really, I kind of had bought into the

00:29:36   concept that Apple was going to make it cheaper and they did make it cheaper. It's cheaper than

00:29:43   the MacBook and the MacBook escape. And it's very similar to the MacBook escape by the way. I wonder

00:29:47   if the MacBook escape is going to fade away because I don't know why it needs to exist when this

00:29:53   computer exists that's got most of what it has, if not all of what it has, plus more because it's got

00:30:03   a touch ID sensor. So yeah. Yeah it is weird. It is a weird one that they kept that. I'm not 100%

00:30:11   sure why they have it, but you know I do want to go back to you saying that like, "Oh they had to

00:30:16   make this because lots of people are still buying the MacBook Air right?" Well I think my question

00:30:24   on this is were they buying the MacBook Air because it was $999 or were they buying the

00:30:30   MacBook Air because they love the MacBook Air? I would assume it's the price and we don't know.

00:30:36   Change that. I mean it's an assumption. If that was the reason, I think it's a combination of

00:30:40   factors. I think that some of it is that. Some of it is that people like the MacBook Air. It is a

00:30:43   pretty great machine even though it was lacking the retina display and modern processors. You

00:30:48   could make the argument it was the last Apple laptop using the old keyboard. Maybe some people

00:30:53   bought it because they didn't like the other keyboards. Well that's gone by the wayside. So

00:30:57   we'll see. Obviously Apple has made some judgments about that people like the MacBook Air. And from

00:31:03   the perspective, leaving the price aside and the keyboard aside, it is very much what the MacBook

00:31:09   Escape wasn't. And the MacBook Escape more and more feels like this super strange outlier where

00:31:14   they sort of used the same stuff they used in the Air but more modern. But they called it a pro

00:31:22   with other pros and priced it accordingly. And then they cut the price. But now it feels like

00:31:31   they're like, "Okay, that didn't happen. So we're just going to make one that's pretty much the

00:31:36   shape you expect," which is the MacBook Air. And it is, I mean, having held one, I mean,

00:31:40   it's great it comes in colors now or at least what Apple calls colors, which is dark silver,

00:31:45   light silver and gold. They're all just the three metals that we're used to, but that's

00:31:49   more than it used to. And I will tell you as a person who's been using the MacBook Air since

00:31:54   the very beginning, it's a MacBook Air. Like the bottom, it's got the little feet, it's got the

00:31:59   curve, the way it opens up. It is a MacBook Air. It is not like our new take on what a MacBook Air

00:32:07   is like. No, it is a MacBook Air. Anybody who's used the Air will be able to pick one of these up

00:32:13   and say, "Yep, this is it." I mean, in some ways it's less exciting because it's not like the iPads

00:32:20   we're going to talk about where it's like, "Whoa, it's totally different. It's really weird. We're

00:32:23   going to have to get used to this." This one, it's just like, "Yeah, they did it. They did the

00:32:27   retina Air." In fact, in hindsight, you look at it and you go, "Why didn't you do this two years ago?

00:32:31   Why didn't you do this three years ago?" But they didn't. They're doing it now.

00:32:35   The sore spot on this though is that the old MacBook Air is still around for $999,

00:32:40   so you can still buy it, which is, "Ah, okay." And so my thinking on that is it's kind of strange

00:32:50   because now you've just... There are three laptops in the lineup which are all kind of jockeying for

00:32:56   the same position. And it is interesting to me that you can still get them. Well, maybe four,

00:33:02   right? You've got the old MacBook Air, the new MacBook Air, the MacBook, and the 13-inch MacBook

00:33:07   Pro, the base edition. Those machines are all similar in certain ways. They're priced differently.

00:33:13   When I look at the pricing of this MacBook Air, I'm reminded of the MacBook again because it's

00:33:21   like, "Well, here's a better machine. It's much more desirable. It's got everything you want,

00:33:25   but it's too expensive." It's at a higher price point. That's what happened with the MacBook,

00:33:29   and then they kept the MacBook Air around. And now they've introduced a new MacBook Air,

00:33:33   which has everything you want and more, but it's still more expensive. And I don't know,

00:33:37   I'm keen to see what happens here. I mean, if I was in the market for a laptop, this is the one

00:33:42   that I would buy because it's the best kind of state of everything. I'm happy with my MacBook

00:33:47   Pro. I use it so infrequently that I'm not in the market, but it does seem like a great machine.

00:33:52   It is also a shame that they missed back to school with this. This would have been the perfect laptop

00:33:58   for a lot of students, right? And I can only assume that Apple was frustrated that they couldn't get

00:34:04   it out for whatever reason at that point. But... - And there's the mystery of the MacBook now,

00:34:07   and not just the MacBook Escape, which I don't know why it exists anymore, but the mystery

00:34:11   of the MacBook. - Like, what is it for? - Well, and it's still, this is a cheaper computer that has

00:34:17   two ports and they're both Thunderbolt 3. - Yeah. - I like the MacBook. And I think that who is

00:34:22   it for is people who want a lighter, a two pound computer instead of a 2.75 pound computer. I get

00:34:28   it. I get it. But the one port and it's still just USB-C, like that's the part where I feel like,

00:34:35   you know, what's going on there that hasn't gotten an update now and still hasn't gotten an update.

00:34:39   And what does that mean? Is Apple not sure it wants to stick around with that or is it just not

00:34:43   going to update it right now and it'll do it later? So those are things that we're going to have to

00:34:47   watch. - They got rid of the rose gold in the MacBook. - Oh, interesting. - So that's just

00:34:52   gold, silver and space grey. - Yeah, Apple seems to be down on rose gold now. - Yeah, it's past

00:34:57   se. I think Touch ID is great. You know what it tells me though? And I look at it and I'm like,

00:35:03   because that was a surprise. I think it says that this MacBook Air is going to be around for a while.

00:35:08   Like they're kind of future proofing it. Eventually all of the Macs are going to get either Face ID or

00:35:12   Touch ID and they've maybe put the Touch ID in this machine faster than we would expect because

00:35:19   they've kind of made it and now they're going to leave it for a bit. - Well, yeah, that's right.

00:35:23   Even if they update the processors in it every so often. - It's not as much work as like doing

00:35:29   everything. - Oh, now we've got to put in, I mean, this is their opportunity to redo this product and

00:35:33   put in the T2 and put in Touch ID. - Oh, T2, yeah, of course. I mean, that's a big deal, right? - So

00:35:37   this is their opportunity. Well, and it makes that computer much more capable in what it's doing.

00:35:43   You're seeing the T2 and I think by extension only, no more spinning hard drives extend to

00:35:49   everywhere in the line and presumably the iMacs will be next. But this is like basically all new

00:35:56   Macs it seems at this point will have a T2 or similar processor in it and will have, if it's

00:36:02   a laptop, it's going to have Touch ID unless they go to Face ID at some point and which they might

00:36:06   with iMacs, right? Because you can't have a touch sensor on the iMac, really. - Unless they do the

00:36:12   keyboard that everybody wants, right? Like they make a keyboard that has a built-in. - Which I just

00:36:15   don't think they're going to do. I think it's much more likely that their iMacs will just do Face ID

00:36:19   and their 5K display will do Face ID with the Mac Pro. - I agree with you because plus as well,

00:36:26   Face ID is the future anyway. Like Touch ID is old technology, but it's taken its time to get into

00:36:31   the Macs. It's new for the Mac. - So do that now on the MacBook Air and then we'll, and then, you know,

00:36:35   and then, because then it'll go for four years, you know, four or five years looking exactly like

00:36:40   it looks now with some new processor updates every so often. - New Mac Mini. They made a bit of fun

00:36:47   of this, I think. There was a, you know, you could definitely read this as like they were kind of like

00:36:51   a wink-wink nudge-nudge. Like Tim kind of made a lighthearted joke like, you know, we know that our

00:36:56   customers really want this and then they made this like really bold video of it looking like it's

00:37:00   coming from space. But it's here. It's space gray now, which means it's for professionals.

00:37:06   It's also powerful. It starts with a four core i3, but can go up to six core i7.

00:37:12   Drat, there are 60% faster graphics, up to 64 gigabytes of RAM and two terabyte SSD.

00:37:18   No spinning disk option. There are images on the website that seem to indicate that the RAM is user

00:37:23   upgradeable, which is a big surprise. - Yeah, that was the strong implication in the event as well,

00:37:29   is like pros care that these things, about these things and so they've got the... - Which is,

00:37:34   I will say that is a good sign for the Mac Pro, right? If the Mac Mini is going to be user

00:37:41   upgradeable again, that is a very good sign for a modular Mac Pro, whatever that might mean.

00:37:46   The Mac Mini gains T2. It has four Thunderbolt 3 ports, two USB-A ports, and you can get,

00:37:53   it has an ethernet port, which can go up to 10 gigabytes, which is great. That's great.

00:37:57   - So it's gigabit internet, but can do 10 gigabit internet or ethernet if you,

00:38:03   it's like a custom config. - Yes, you have to buy it that way. - Ultra super fast, which is like the

00:38:07   iMac Pro has that built in. So it's an option here and all those ports, like they said the right

00:38:13   things, which is we know that pros like ports and we know that this is a computer that is used by a

00:38:18   lot of professional people to do all sorts of stuff. So we're just gonna throw them all on there.

00:38:22   Four Thunderbolt 3, two USB-A, go HDMI. - And a 3.5 millimeter headphone jack. - Yeah, just go for it.

00:38:29   - Because that's, of course, that's the machine that needs, anyway, we'll get into that later on.

00:38:33   The Mac Mini, that's the one that needs the headphone jack. Oh yeah, don't keep it on the

00:38:37   portable products. It's a space gray made from the old iPads and iPhones. The enclosure is mostly

00:38:44   unchanged. $799. So I'll ask you this question again. Is this the Mac Mini update that we've

00:38:50   been waiting for? Is this what we wanted? - Yeah, I'm surprised that they did not redesign the

00:38:56   outside. I figured that when they were going to bother redoing the Mac Mini, they would do

00:39:02   something to make it look different. And instead they made a video with a UFO and then made it space

00:39:07   gray. Which I guess that's the pro focus. If we had done the old pro focus, like how do we define

00:39:14   whether this has a pro focus or not? The answer is it's space gray. In the demo room afterward,

00:39:19   it was paired with a space gray keyboard and a space gray track pad. - And they set the word

00:39:23   professional a bunch. And do you know what they did? Which I really appreciated? They showed a

00:39:27   bunch of edge cases. - They did. - And that's what this machine is all about. - They showed Mac

00:39:31   Stadium, right? They showed all of these examples, including like a slide and a whole spiel about

00:39:37   the existence of Mac Stadium. The guy from Mac Stadium was there. Mac Mini-Colo guy. He was in

00:39:43   the audience. And apparently they told him, "Don't tell anybody you're in New York." Because it gives

00:39:49   it away, right? What else would give it away more than that? So he kept it quiet. But it is great,

00:39:56   right? Like that is, I like, I thought it was the perfect way to talk about the Mac Mini, which is

00:40:01   it's got, what doesn't it do? It's got lots of uses. It's really flexible. We found that a lot

00:40:08   of these uses are, they want more advanced stuff. They care about that stuff. It is, it fits

00:40:14   perfectly in the thing that I've been saying for a long time about the Mini, which is that it is

00:40:18   the escape valve for the Mac that Apple can be as opinionated as they want to be in other areas,

00:40:26   especially like on the iMac, right? But then there's like, or just get a Mac Mini and it's

00:40:31   got all the ports and do whatever. - Yeah. Just like shut up and leave us alone. Go buy that thing.

00:40:35   - It's useful to have that 'cause they can just say, "Look, just get that. Just get that." And

00:40:40   that's why people have been cranky about the Mac Mini. It's not like the Mac Mini is the super

00:40:44   important Mac product, but it fills a niche and has not, or like a million tiny niches, and

00:40:51   those have not been maintained for the last few years. So it is legitimately the first good

00:40:59   upgrade to the Mac Mini in like a decade. Because remember the last upgrade, which was a long time

00:41:04   ago, was a downgrade 'cause you lost the four core processor. And now you can't get it without four

00:41:10   cores and you can upgrade it to six cores. So people should be happy about it. It also

00:41:15   means you can spend a lot of money on a Mac Mini if you really want to, but you'll get,

00:41:18   I would argue like the high level Mac Mini, that's the mythical mid range mini tower that people have

00:41:25   been talking about. It doesn't have the expansion. You'll have to do USPC expansion, but you could do

00:41:30   that. You could put a, you can hang an external GPU on it if you want to. - Yeah. This is an

00:41:37   interesting machine. Like I don't know what my next computer will be, right? Ideally what I want,

00:41:45   and I've mentioned this before, like my next Mac to be something that I can expand and maybe just

00:41:51   expanding the RAM will be enough for me. And then maybe I'll go to a Mac Mini. Like I'm waiting,

00:41:57   right? Like I'm waiting for the Mac Pro, wait to see what it's like next year. And then I'll make

00:42:01   my decision there. - And no doubt the Mac Pro and the Mac Mini will both work with that 5K Apple

00:42:05   display when it does come. - Yep. So I'm kind of in a wait and see moment, but like that Mac Mini

00:42:10   looks really great. Like I've been toying with the idea recently of getting, like just building my own

00:42:15   little home server for a bunch of reasons. I'm going to talk about one of them in a minute,

00:42:18   actually. But, and I think that I will, I will pick one of these up at some, at some point pretty

00:42:23   soon. I haven't ordered one immediately because I didn't think it was completely necessary that I

00:42:28   needed to order one immediately. Because, but basically all of these products are available

00:42:32   for pre-order today and the shipping next Wednesday, which is a super weird day. But great.

00:42:38   I'm like, please, I want them as soon as possible. I don't want to wait till Friday for the iPad. So

00:42:42   yeah, I'll take them Wednesday. So, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm probably going to get one of these as

00:42:47   well at some point, but you mentioned iMacs. It was one of your picks. So no new iMacs,

00:42:51   no Mac Pro teaser. I think no new iMacs, even just an update for processors is more surprising.

00:42:58   It's, it's not the first time that they blown past a year and not updated them. They, they do seem to

00:43:04   update them a little bit irregularly. So after I picked that last week, I was like, maybe not,

00:43:10   but it was too late. And, and yeah, so I think it's fine because I don't think they're going to

00:43:16   go year. I think they'll probably update them next spring and it may have something to do with what

00:43:21   Intel processors they want to put in there. It may be a simple, and I know this is hard to believe,

00:43:25   but this is how Apple operates. It may be as simple as they can't make that many ship that

00:43:30   many new Mac models all at once because they've got a limited number of people who work on this

00:43:35   stuff and you think, well, they're Apple, they're huge. They are, but they don't have a huge staff.

00:43:39   They've got a lot of people, but it's not like, I mean, there is a limit to how many products that

00:43:43   they can, they can turn out at one time. And it may be that in the Mac group, like they prioritize

00:43:48   the MacBook air and the Mac mini. And like, we finally are going to give them some air,

00:43:53   you know, some oxygen, right? We're finally going to, finally, you're going to get it.

00:43:57   The price of that is that Mac that iMac launch that we could have done this fall. We're going

00:44:01   to do next spring instead. Like, and that's, that's not a bad trade-off I would say because

00:44:05   the iMac is okay. The iMac is okay. It's, it's only a year old. It's fine. So I guess we're

00:44:11   expecting the Mac Pro in June, right? I mean, it was a very outside chance that we'd get a teaser

00:44:16   today. It really does make the most sense that they either tease it or have like release, like

00:44:21   release information available at WWDC next year. I think we're, I'm still on the late 2019, early

00:44:27   2020 kind of train. I, if I had to put money down, it would be that they will announce it at WWDC and

00:44:33   ship it in like December. Just like they did with the iMac Pro. Yeah. Like there's a precedent for

00:44:38   it. It makes sense. You know, I understand what you're saying about the spring. I could also see

00:44:42   them updating the iMacs at the same time, um, which would be a long time, but it feels like

00:44:47   a possibility to me as well. Yeah. They can't, I mean, if you got them and they're ready to go,

00:44:51   then you might as well put them out the door and move on to the next thing, I guess, but we'll see.

00:44:54   All right. Today's episode is also brought to you by Luna Display. Have you ever looked at your iPad

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00:46:07   as well. So you can interact with your Mac with a swipe of a finger or a tap of that beautiful

00:46:12   pencil. I am, this is what I was talking about, about getting a Mac Mini. This is one of the

00:46:16   reasons that I'm thinking about doing it. So I can set up a Mac Mini at home and plug in the Luna

00:46:20   Display. I've been using it, I've been playing around with it on my iMac, but I turn my iMac off

00:46:24   every day because it has a bunch of audio equipment that I don't want to leave on. So I want to get a

00:46:29   Mac Mini, put it somewhere in my home, plug the Luna Display in and then if I ever need to do

00:46:33   anything Mac related, because there are some things where it's like, oh, now I have to go to the

00:46:36   office to do this one little thing. I won't have to do that with Luna Display. Just open up my iPad

00:46:41   and I'm ready to go. That is a wonderful future. Listeners of this show can get an amazing exclusive

00:46:48   10% discount on Luna Display. Just go to Lunadisplay.com, that is L-U-N-A-D-I-S-P-L-A-Y.com,

00:46:57   enter the promo code upgrade at checkout. That is Lunadisplay.com, promo code upgrade at checkout

00:47:02   to get 10% off our thanks to Luna Display for their support of this show and Relay FM.

00:47:07   - I was a Kickstarter backer of this project and I have tried it and it works really well.

00:47:12   And they've got two versions too, 'cause they've got the USB-C version and a mini DisplayPort

00:47:16   version. So, you know, take your pick and it looks great. It works better than any external

00:47:21   iPad display thing I've ever tried. And it is nice. Put that 12.9 inch iPad Pro that you might

00:47:30   not be using anymore because you bought a new one to use as a second display.

00:47:35   - What a great idea. I didn't even think of that. Well, I can't use my 12.9 because this

00:47:38   is all smashed to pieces. - Yours needs to get recycled.

00:47:40   - But I do have a 10.5 which would need somewhere to go. That's a great idea.

00:47:43   - Yeah, mount it. - Let's talk about new iPads.

00:47:46   - New iPads. Why are we shouting? - I'm so excited.

00:47:49   - It is exciting. - You know, I was thinking today,

00:47:51   and this might, this is probably a recency thing, but who knows? I think I'm more excited for these

00:47:55   iPads than I was for the iPhone 10. - Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Totally.

00:47:59   - I am very excited. I am very excited. You've held them, which I want to hear all about in a

00:48:03   minute. Let's do like a super quick rundown of what we've got. It's two sizes. They have

00:48:07   edge to edge displays. They are liquid retina displays.

00:48:10   - Yeah. So just like the 10R, they're liquid retina. So it's an LCD display. It's got a LED

00:48:17   backlighting. It is kind of, they're cutting around the edges to get the rounded corners

00:48:22   and then doing like sub pixel anti-aliasing masking and all sorts of other tricks to do this

00:48:28   curved look that they like from OLED that LCD screens just can't do. So they make them look

00:48:34   that way, which is super tricky. So it's basically the same approach that they took in the 10R,

00:48:39   but on an iPad. And they've got all the, you know, true tone promotion. They've got all the same kind

00:48:45   of like wizzy display technologies that they had in the previous ones. You mentioned the two sizes.

00:48:50   I think that, I think they did exactly the right thing with those two iPads, which is what they

00:48:55   said on stage was perfect. They said, the 10.5 iPad, everybody likes that size. It's basically,

00:49:02   you know, it's almost the size of the 9.7. It's a little bit bigger, but it's everybody likes the

00:49:06   size. So we're keeping the size and just making the screen bigger. And with 12.9 and you and I

00:49:12   can both testify to this. Everybody likes that screen, but it's big. It's a big iPad. And so

00:49:18   on the 12.9, we're going to keep the screen the same size and make the iPad smaller. And that's

00:49:25   absolutely the right decisions in both. So now we've got an 11 inch iPad Pro and another 12.9

00:49:32   with the bezels all pulled in and the home button gone. There was a delightfully quirky little video

00:49:38   as they toss the home button away. - With Sheila doing like the most expert narration.

00:49:45   It was so good. - They did a good job with it. I always wanted, I really liked the idea that when

00:49:50   you're making something smaller, like Apple always does, you have a video where you can use special

00:49:54   effects to like have a hand kind of like just shove it in and now it's smaller. Like I really

00:50:00   liked it. It really illustrates that really well that they're doing that. And I think both really

00:50:06   great decisions. And of course that means there's face ID instead of touch ID, the home button is

00:50:11   gone. And as a 12.9 user, I had been thinking that I might try the smaller iPad just because the 12.9

00:50:20   is a bit of a load. And then I look at this, I'm like, oh, I don't need to, I can just use the 12.9

00:50:26   and it'll be smaller. That's like even better. Cause I love that screen. It's so great to have

00:50:30   the big screen and run multiple apps. And now the whole thing's just going to be less ungainly than

00:50:36   it currently is. So tell me you've held them. You've been in the demo room, you've seen them

00:50:41   both. I want to know how different do they feel from each other? The two, the two models. Yeah,

00:50:48   because the screen sizes and the body sizes they're closer together than they've ever been.

00:50:53   Do they feel distinctly different still? I think so. I think so. Although I might argue that it's

00:50:58   a little bit like the 10 S and the 10 S max where if you use one for a while and then you use the

00:51:03   other one, you go, oh, this is different. But then you get used to the one size. I do think it is a

00:51:10   case where the screen of the one has grown and the size of the other one has shrunk. And as a result,

00:51:14   they're more similar than they've ever been. Remembering that originally it was a 9.7 and

00:51:19   a 12.9 and then went to 10.5. Now it's 11. Like it's the small iPad pro keeps wanting to be like

00:51:24   its big brother. It's like, I want to be like you. And it's like, easy, buddy, easy. You're,

00:51:30   you're now only like 1.9 inches away. You can't get too close to where the same product in a couple

00:51:35   of years, it will be a 15 inch iPad pro. It's like, there you go. It's going to run away. It's

00:51:40   going to beat this little guy. Now I'm at 15 inches. Like, oh no, I there's a cartoon to be

00:51:45   drawn about this probably by a listener. Uh, anyway, so, but they're different. I mean, like I,

00:51:51   I picked up the 11 and held that for awhile. And then I went and sought out a 12.9 and yeah,

00:52:00   it's bigger. It's, I mean, it is the thing we all talk about, which is that it's, it's the big,

00:52:06   it's the big brother. It's you want a 11 inch screen or a 13 inch screen, like with a MacBook

00:52:11   Air would say the classic kind of 11 or 13. And you have to make, you have to make the decision,

00:52:16   but they feel, they feel so different, Myke. I mean, that's the big thing for me about it is

00:52:22   the, if I had to describe the difference and I know it's only at the edges, not the back,

00:52:27   the back of the current iPad pro is flat, but the way I would describe these new IMAX or iPads is

00:52:34   flat. Like, and it's because of the edges, because it's got flat edges instead of curved edges.

00:52:40   It, it feels so it's more kind of boxy like the original iPad, by the way, the original iPad had

00:52:46   the edges. And so it's got the flat back completely flat, and then it goes to the edge. And I really

00:52:53   like it. It's going to take some getting used to holding, you know, we already had to get used to

00:52:58   holding an iPad with narrower bezels than before when they redesigned it to have the, the one side

00:53:04   be narrower and now all the sides are, are much narrower. And so, you know, there, there are those

00:53:09   moments of like, am I, am I touching the side of the display and messing it up? I know they do,

00:53:15   they do all sorts of palm detection and other kind of like rejection of gestures on the side

00:53:20   that they think are probably you holding it, but there's going to be some adaptation there,

00:53:25   but it is Tim Cook said something super weird, which is you're essentially holding a light.

00:53:31   It's like, I don't know what that is. I don't know. There was like far out, man. And it was just,

00:53:37   it was like a bit much, but I get the point, which is the whole goal of this product is that your,

00:53:44   it's just a display and that everything just disappears. And what they really hammered home

00:53:48   during the app demos is it is the iPad is a screen that you can make be what you want it to be.

00:53:56   And they definitely follow, follow through with that base ID in every orientation, every

00:54:02   orientation. Yeah. In fact, when you speaking of holding the thing if you try to unlock it and your

00:54:08   fingers over the camera, because you may not be paying attention to which direction you're holding

00:54:12   it. And the camera is kind of in the middle of that, the, the, one of the narrow sides.

00:54:17   Yeah. It puts up a little thing that says camera covered and a little arrow pointing at where the

00:54:26   camera is on the screen. There's like a little arrow pointing at your, your thumb, basically,

00:54:31   and saying that move it. And then you move it and it looks at your face and it unlocks and you can,

00:54:37   yeah, they, they demoed it for us. You know, it was trained to the face of the demo person.

00:54:41   So they demoed it for us and you know, they, they unlocked it upside down where the camera's at the

00:54:46   bottom. Okay. So there's kind of a distance and a weird angle up to the face of the guy who was

00:54:50   demoing it. It was fine. So we'll see how it is in practice, but it looked like it worked great and

00:54:56   they figured out a way to make that camera. Um, and those detectors work at various angles,

00:55:03   left, right, up and down. So that, that is a big surprise. I think, I don't think I was expecting

00:55:09   that. And they said that this was along with many other things possible because of the A12X

00:55:15   bionic chip. Um, so this is an increase on what's in the current iPhone models. It is,

00:55:22   as they refer to it as a super powerful eight core CPU. So it has the high efficiency cores and like

00:55:27   the power, like the performance cores. Yeah. And it'll run all eight if, if it needs to. Yeah.

00:55:31   Very much like the A12. It is 35% faster on single core processes in the previous iPad,

00:55:37   90% faster on multi-core as a seven core GPU, which is two times faster and super weirdly,

00:55:43   they showed us a slide, which has an Xbox on it. And they said the graphics are comparable to an

00:55:48   Xbox one S and I was like, okay. Like it was, it was really strange to see that comparison.

00:55:55   Yeah. But, but they, when they brought out the 2k, the, the, the, the NBA 2k people,

00:56:02   right. Those graphics were incredible. Now that game, I don't know how you play it because like,

00:56:06   it's not control league, it's like tapping on stuff as a basketball game. I don't know where

00:56:09   it works, irrespective of that. The graphics quality was, it was comparable to consoles.

00:56:16   Now Xbox one S is the lower powered version of the Xbox. There is an Xbox one X, which is 4k one.

00:56:22   That's all we have. Nevertheless, these graphics are console, like they, they look like a console's

00:56:29   graphics. Like that is very impressive what they've been able to do. And the A12X brings

00:56:35   over the neural engine, which is the first time that this has been available, uh, on an iPad.

00:56:40   Right. So that's probably what is helping. Well, it's definitely what's helping the face

00:56:45   ID, but I'm sure there'll be many other things that will be enhanced because of that,

00:56:49   which is really exciting. Anything using the machine learning stuff will, will pick up that

00:56:54   neural engine in the A12X. All day battery life. Yeah. Yeah. This is something that they said,

00:57:00   again, it's great, right? The concept, but this is an interesting example where Apple has decided

00:57:05   to back away from specifics. And they said multiple times during the event, uh, about

00:57:10   the MacBook air, about the iPad pro, uh, it, uh, of course it offers all day battery life. And this,

00:57:16   I feel like is Apple's code word for like, you know, remember when, uh, Stephen Hackett and I

00:57:22   were talking about this and I made a chart about like quoted battery life in, uh, on the iPad over

00:57:28   the, over time and how it's always 10 hours. And it's varied a little bit. I feel like they've just

00:57:34   decided their philosophy is we want you to be able to get through the day of normal, a day of

00:57:38   normal use with this device. And so we're going to stop saying, well, on this device, we consider 10

00:57:43   hours normal use. And on this device, we consider six hours, normal use. They've just backed all the

00:57:48   way off to say it lasts all day and that's it. That's all they want to say. I'm sure there are

00:57:53   specs and at times quoted in, uh, you know, on, on a site somewhere in a reviewer's guide or

00:57:58   something like that. But in the presentation, they didn't talk about how many hours of battery life,

00:58:02   because it gets complicated. Like what were the tests and all that they just said it has all day

00:58:06   battery life. We are confident and they walk away at that point. There is no headphone jack,

00:58:11   um, on this iPad. The headphone jack is gone. Uh, there's no included dongle. Apple makes one. There

00:58:18   is a USB-C to 3.5 millimeter headphone jack, a dongle that you can buy. Remember no lightning

00:58:23   anymore. It's got USB-C. And so that means the lightning adapter you've got won't work with it.

00:58:28   You need a USB-C headphone adapter if you want to use wired headphones with the iPad. I've already

00:58:34   seen a million headlines about this and this is going to be the thing that people talk about.

00:58:39   And I'll just say it is annoying. I didn't want it to happen. I mentioned it, but I'm going to

00:58:44   get by like, Oh, if I want to use my 3.5 millimeter headphones, I will get a USB-C dongle and put it

00:58:50   on there and keep it. Or maybe I'll, maybe I'll buy USB-C headphones or maybe Bluetooth headphones

00:58:55   and probably get some dongle that has two USB ports on it so I can power it. Like, sure,

00:59:00   it's going to be annoying, but I'm not going to let this thing taint my feelings about what looks

00:59:05   to be an incredible product. Like I am frustrated to see that Mac Mini keeps its 3.5 millimeter

00:59:10   headphone jack because that feels almost silly. And the MacBook Air and the iPad doesn't, but

00:59:17   this is not going to be a thing that I'm going to get all bent out of shape about over a long

00:59:21   period of time because I'll get used to it. Like there are other options. It is a frustration. It's

00:59:27   a shame, but this product looks so incredible in every other way. It's just like, okay, like that's

00:59:33   what, that's my trade off. That's what I lose. Fine. Yeah. I, I agree with you that in the end,

00:59:38   it's not going to diminish my enthusiasm for the product very much. That said, it bugs me because

00:59:44   it's a pro product. Yes. And one of the pro uses of a pro product is going to be audio. Yeah. And

00:59:52   wireless headphones have latency issues. And if you're doing something that requires precision

00:59:58   audio, you either will have to get a new set of headphones that are wireless that are using a

01:00:07   version of Bluetooth that has completely eliminated latency. Do those exist? Maybe they do. I don't

01:00:14   know. Or you will have to buy an adapter and use your wired headphones because like the only time

01:00:20   I ever plug in, well, that's not true. Sometimes if I'm on a plane or something, I'll watch a movie

01:00:27   and then I'll plug in headphones. But the primary reason I plug in headphones on the iPad pro is to

01:00:33   edit usually audio and I can't have latency, right? I can't press play and then wait and it starts to

01:00:43   roll. And then eventually the, you know, the audio appears and then I can hear it and I pause it and,

01:00:48   you know, and there's a delay that you can't do that. And wired headphones, there's no delay. So

01:00:53   it frustrates me because that strikes me as a pro use. They showed all of the like DJ software

01:01:00   running on it. Like I guess the DJ will have a dongle to do audio out because they're not going

01:01:05   to do like Bluetooth to their giant DJ system, right? There are lots of very popular and

01:01:10   successful DJs in dongle town. You know, they're there too. You know, the DJs, the DJs of dongle

01:01:15   town, the people in, in dongle town want to dance, Myke, they want to dance. They do. And they should,

01:01:20   they should be allowed to because they can't let anybody stop them. It's like, look, we're going

01:01:24   to talk about it. This probably this one time and it's just like, we'll, we'll might bring it up

01:01:27   later on when we get other frustrations, but like, what are you going to do? Right? Like,

01:01:31   this is just how it is and it will be this way and we'll get used to it. Uh, my hope is that

01:01:36   adding USB-C will be overall a huge benefit and I don't, they didn't go into tons about what it can

01:01:46   do. There are a few things which are interesting, right? Like they show connecting cameras,

01:01:49   they show connecting it to a display. One thing that is super cool is you can charge your iPhone

01:01:54   from your iPad, which is great. Like it's just like, okay, great. Like that is a, yeah, that's

01:01:58   the thing where it's like, well now I have a benefit that I didn't have before. And that is

01:02:02   one, my iPad always has battery. My iPhone doesn't always, you know, so that's like a great thing

01:02:07   that it can do it. The battery is way bigger. Um, and I'm just hoping that the potential

01:02:13   future of USB-C is going to be a good one for the iPad that makes all this worth it.

01:02:18   I will say that like, they didn't really show off a lot that I didn't see anything about external

01:02:24   storage. I don't know if it can do it yet. We're going to have to wait and see how that,

01:02:27   all that sort of stuff works, but if it doesn't now, I'm confident they will add it in the next

01:02:32   version of iOS. Like I believe there was a, there was a really good reason that they've done this

01:02:36   and it's going to show over time and it will make up for any of the disadvantages of adding USB-C,

01:02:42   you know, like I think it's a overall really good thing. I, you know, never, you never assume,

01:02:48   but it feels like the, the popular conspiracy theory is there were originally going to be a

01:02:53   lot of iPad features in iOS 12 and they got kicked out to iOS 13. That was reported. Um,

01:03:00   and you build your hardware over a long period of time. So presumably the move to USB-C on the iPad

01:03:07   Pro predated kicking features out of iOS 12. And therefore the way that this, this theory goes,

01:03:18   there are probably a whole bunch of things that will be in iOS 13 where we'll get the beta in June

01:03:22   that will improve the iPad Pro and perhaps specifically USB-C. I had to laugh. Um, again,

01:03:30   you know, marketing is you put your best foot forward and you're trying to make everybody

01:03:33   feel like this is the natural right thing to do. And isn't it great. And sometimes if you know a

01:03:38   lot about a subject, you see marketing and you're like, what are they doing there? And I had that

01:03:43   moment where they were extolling the virtues of USB-C by showing somebody like you could be

01:03:47   attached to an external monitor and plug in a digital SLR. And I thought, well, yeah,

01:03:53   cause that's like all you can do. That's literally all iOS will let you do. They're using like the

01:03:58   two use cases there. They might as well also plug in a keyboard, like you could also plug in a

01:04:02   keyboard and you can charge your phone. You can do all, what can it do? And the answer is everything

01:04:07   else. Plug in a hard drive. No, you can't do that. Uh, so we'll, we'll, we'll see. We'll see what

01:04:13   they, what they do and if they change it. Cause that's, that's my particular bugaboo about iOS

01:04:19   support of USB-C is iOS doesn't support, um, you know, storage that you can't plug in a flash drive

01:04:26   or a hard drive and see what's on it in files app, which you should be able to do. And you can't. And

01:04:32   I think it being USB, it's even more of an expectation that USB devices will work with it

01:04:38   and out of the box, it looks like a lot of the USB devices will just not just like they don't really

01:04:43   work with, uh, the current versions via adapter. So, Oh, well it is, uh, in some cases it's going

01:04:50   to be trading one set of dongles for another. And in other cases you'll have USB-C devices and

01:04:54   you'll just be able to plug them or get a cable and then you won't need an adapter for your iPad

01:04:58   anymore. And that's nice. So these iPads come in 64 gigabytes, 256 gigabytes, 512 and one terabyte.

01:05:05   The one terabyte is also enabled by A12X and you can do that for the A12X Bionic chip. Bionic chip?

01:05:12   Not the A1210 Bionic chip. No, it's not that. The 10.5 inch starts at $799. The 12.9 inch starts at

01:05:20   $999. They are both more expensive than the previous versions. Um, but that makes sense to me.

01:05:27   Uh, I know that this stuff is, can be frustrating for people, but I can look at these products and

01:05:33   feel like, yeah, they do look like more expensive than the other ones. So I think I kind of get it.

01:05:38   The 10.5 is sticking around at a cheaper price point. Um, ordering today, shipping next Wednesday.

01:05:45   Who doesn't like a Wednesday? Everyone loves Wednesdays now. But that's not the whole story.

01:05:50   Yes. Myke, you got an Apple pencil too. And I got about 75% of what I wanted and I can't believe I

01:05:57   got that much. So it has magnets in it. Well, there's magnets all over the place. There's

01:06:02   magnets for the Apple pencil and the smart keyboard now. Yeah. Yeah. They said there are 102 magnets.

01:06:08   It's a lot of magnets. It's good we don't use VCR tapes anymore because they'd all be wiped.

01:06:15   Don't put your old floppy disks against the iPad pro. Uh, the new pencil attaches magnetically to

01:06:22   the top of the iPad, which means it has a flat edge. Oh my gosh. So happy about that. I did not

01:06:29   expect them to do this, but a flat edge means it can stick to the iPad, but also means it won't

01:06:34   roll anymore. It has a flat edge to put down a flat edge by the way that you can get engraved.

01:06:39   If you want to Federico was ordering his and he was like, I'm going to put teaching on it.

01:06:44   I was thinking, so here's the thing I want to get them engraved, but I was thinking,

01:06:48   does that make the shipping slower? I don't know. I didn't want to risk it because I really want it

01:06:53   all on the same time. So, uh, I didn't do it. Uh, I did see a tweet earlier on today that Marco,

01:06:59   uh, posted. It says Myke was right on an Apple pencil, which I'll probably will have to do at

01:07:04   some point. Right. Like probably going to have to do that. So, so the it's not so magnet magnet to

01:07:10   hold it. So it's like they have a plan of how you're going to hold this thing against your iPad.

01:07:14   It's great. And it was, it's, it's not a, uh, it's a solid hold. It's not a falls off when you

01:07:20   shake the iPad kind of hold. It's a solid hold. There's a little strip. You can actually see it.

01:07:24   There's a little thing on the side and that's the magnet spot where the, uh, pencil goes. And

01:07:30   it's not just a magnet spot. It's an induction charging spot. I did not expect them to do this.

01:07:37   This is perfect and incredible and I can't believe they've done it. So they said like,

01:07:41   it will always be with you and it's always charged. It's like, yeah, that's what we want.

01:07:46   And now there's no little thing to pop off and lose. Like they have done. So like I wanted other

01:07:51   things, right? Like I wanted it to be made of a different material, but what they have done is

01:07:55   they've made it a matte finish. So I'm like, I'm interested to see how that feels, but stuff like

01:08:00   wireless induction, like wireless induction charging of some kind. I don't, I don't think

01:08:03   it's cheap. I didn't say, but it's just, it charges in wirelessly somehow. That is something

01:08:09   that I wouldn't have expected for the second version. So that is a real exciting thing.

01:08:13   I wanted a button. They've given me the Apple version of a button. It, you, you double tap on

01:08:18   the pencil on the touch sensitive area that exists to change tools. Yeah. Apple doesn't want to give

01:08:24   you buttons, but Apple is happy to give you, I don't know this and I don't know what it says

01:08:28   on the website because again, I'm in that cone of silence, but it looked to me awfully like what it

01:08:32   is as an accelerometer where the, the, that makes sense where, where the pencil is, is just feeling

01:08:38   that you're tapping on it. Cause it's not swipe or anything. It's you tap on the, on the thing,

01:08:42   think on the AirPods. That's just like the AirPods. So you tap and then there's a system

01:08:48   setting. You can say like, do you want this to be tapped to go between a racer and not, or tap to go

01:08:54   to the previous tool or not? Yeah. Well it's better to say it is an app setting, not a system setting.

01:09:00   So no, there is a system setting, although I think it may be for the notes though. Yeah,

01:09:04   that's the notes. That's notes. The setting. So you can, you can double tap and change tools and,

01:09:08   and those can be programmed to do different things. So I'm interested to see how developers

01:09:13   do this. When they showed a Photoshop, the double tap was zooming in and out. Um, I'm excited to see

01:09:18   what this could be. Like what, what I asked for, right? You should press a button and you can use

01:09:21   an eraser. This is the Apple version of doing that. It wasn't that I specifically wanted a button.

01:09:26   I wanted what a button provides, which was for YouTube without having to tap in the interface,

01:09:31   have quick actions to get to another function. I think this is wonderful. Um, weirdly, there is a

01:09:37   two pencil maximum for online ordering. Um, I ordered two Apple pencils. I'll get to why later

01:09:43   on. I accidentally put three in the cart and it wouldn't let me check out. Interesting. Well,

01:09:47   that's people are hoarding Apple pencils now. Yeah, I think that might be what it was. I, by the way,

01:09:51   I have lots of original Apple pencils for cheap now. Lots. Why do you have lots? Uh, every time

01:10:00   I review an iPad, I get an Apple pencil and it's like, I don't, I have an Apple pencil and they're

01:10:05   like, no, here's another Apple pencil. I'm like, I don't. Okay. Yes. Like, no, no, you don't

01:10:09   understand. Here's another one. It's like, I have so many. Come on. There's so, so many smart keyboard

01:10:15   folio. Oh boy. Okay. So we got sort of what we were looking for, but sort of not. So it's

01:10:21   not a bridge keyboard where it is a metallic, inflatable laptop thing. Exactly. What we got is

01:10:29   a, so it is that theory of what was going on in the back there was absolutely right. There is a

01:10:34   magnetic smart connector that's on the back. And I said last week, the only, you know, the only way

01:10:40   that makes sense for the smart keyboard is if it's going to be a, with a back cover like the old smart

01:10:45   cover was. And that's exactly what it is. It looks absolutely nothing like the roommate images,

01:10:51   right? No, it looks nice. It just looks like a smart connected with three prongs instead of five.

01:10:55   It's literally just three metallic dots on the back surface. That's all it is. There's no inset,

01:11:00   you know, nothing like that. It's just nothing. No, just three of the same place, right? Like

01:11:05   all of the, the, the, the, the leak temperatures are having at the top, but it's at the bottom.

01:11:09   Yeah. So it's, um, so that's interesting. It does mean that you're the way they reading between the

01:11:16   lines. I think what they're saying is, um, it was a little fiddly to get the smart connector right on

01:11:25   the edge of the iPad. And, uh, this way is much less fiddly because you're, you're snapping it on

01:11:33   the back. And I think the magnets are super strong, right? 106 magnets. There are lots of

01:11:37   magnets back there. All the great magnets and all the great magnets. They align it and hold it steady.

01:11:45   So it's providing some level of rigidity that is necessary stability for this thing. Cause we

01:11:50   always complain about how, um, it's a little bit flimsy. And then, uh, the front, when you fold it

01:11:56   out, um, you get these two above. It still doesn't have a function row, which I know there are no

01:12:01   function keys on the iPad, but there are, uh, media playback controls. Yeah. All third party

01:12:06   keyboards have some kind of function thing. Like you can do it, but right. So they still,

01:12:10   they still don't have that, which frustrates me because when I'm listening to music on my iPad,

01:12:14   for example, having a keyboard shortcut to make it pause is nice. And I don't, they still don't

01:12:19   do that. So, Oh, well, but they do have these two. So it used to be the way it worked was your, um,

01:12:26   the, the folding triangle thing happened. And that as part of that, you know, you get it set up

01:12:33   in that would be the angle. Um, and now when you open it up, you get this part that's, that's

01:12:39   behind where the keys are, that there are two little ridges or little divots. Um, and you can

01:12:45   put the iPad in either one. So it's essentially giving you two angles, which they say is sort of

01:12:50   like one is for your lap and one is on a table or whatever, but it's two angles. And, uh, you know,

01:12:56   I got to try it on a table, but my hope is that it's more, um, usable in a lap than the smart

01:13:06   keyboard is because it's not because it's a flat surface. Um, and then the iPad is up and the iPad

01:13:14   is resting on the flat surface instead of like a kickstand. It's so that whole rigid flat surface

01:13:20   of the keyboard is what goes on your lap. And then held by magnets, the iPad is an angle resting on

01:13:27   it. And so it should be much more stable than the smart cover keyboard smart. It's called the smart

01:13:34   keeper, you know, the one that was like a cover and this one is like a folio. And so it's different.

01:13:38   So, you know, I'm excited about that. I like that keyboard. I like the key style of it. It's going

01:13:42   to be way better on the 12.9 because this 1.9 dimensions are smaller. And that was the problem

01:13:47   with the 12.9 smart keyboard is just, it was such a load because it had to be the same size

01:13:52   as the whole iPad. Um, and so to shave off, you're not just shaving off size from the iPad,

01:13:57   you're shaving off size from the keyboard cover, which is really, that's good. So I'm,

01:14:02   I'm really optimistic about that. I am a little bit down on the fact that the 12.9 of this folio

01:14:07   keyboard thing is going to cost 200 bucks. Apple, Apple is not again, never bet on Apple charging

01:14:16   you less when they can charge you more. I'll point out that the bridge keyboard that you and I both

01:14:20   have and that Federico has that only costs 150 bucks. So, so this is, this is more expensive than

01:14:27   the metal external Bluetooth keyboard thing. Um, and you know, I don't know what bridge is going

01:14:33   to do because, uh, they have little clips that attached to the bezels. So I'm really not quite

01:14:37   sure what they're gonna, what they're going to do if they're going to be able to make a version of

01:14:40   their keyboard for these things. I guess we can assume it won't fit, right? Especially the 12.9 one.

01:14:45   12.9 I don't see. I mean, short, short of the maybe making like a little bracket that goes in

01:14:50   there that you then rest the iPad in or something like that. But I don't know how they're going to

01:14:54   do it. I'm sure there's a way for them to figure it out and they will figure it out. Maybe they'll

01:14:57   even make a version of the keyboard that's got the little, you know, uh, yeah, who knows magnets,

01:15:04   magnets can fix things, right? The folio looks really great. I love the back and front cover.

01:15:08   I think it's going to look real nice. Things can feel real nice, but here's something that I'm a

01:15:12   bit bummed about. It doesn't have, it doesn't seem to do the thing where you can flip the keyboard

01:15:17   around and stand it up. It's like watch videos and stuff. You've always got to have the keyboard in

01:15:21   front of you. Like you can't, it doesn't look like this keyboard or this one could be flipped right

01:15:25   round again. And that's the bummer for me because it's probably going to mean that I end up buying

01:15:31   another thing like the cover because there's a good, the regular cover and one of those as well,

01:15:37   which is like another $80 because when I'm on planes and stuff, I like to be able to stand it

01:15:43   up and you can stand it up and you can still have tons of space on the tray in front of you.

01:15:46   So we'll see. I'll see how that goes. I mean, it's a little bit frustrating, but

01:15:50   the, the, I would expect the benefit of the adjustable angle is going to really be good

01:15:55   for me in the long run. So I'm excited. I'm just excited to see some innovation there

01:16:00   that Apple's doing some different stuff. I'm also very happy that you can buy the British English

01:16:05   version immediately. You don't have to wait for six months, uh, like they have done in the past.

01:16:09   Yay! You get your weird return key and everything. Great return key, all the great return keys. Um,

01:16:17   this is just such an amazing looking device. I'm so excited. I'm really excited for this whole thing.

01:16:23   Yeah. Uh, this is the, the one I, you know, I, during the Mac segment, I was like,

01:16:29   I'm very excited. I love the Mac. I'm so glad they're giving the Mac some love.

01:16:32   And then we got to the iPad Pro and I was like, Oh boy. Like, it was, cause this is, cause honestly,

01:16:39   like I bought my Mac also, my Mac thirst is quenched. I bought an iMac Pro last December.

01:16:46   So I've got a really awesome Mac and I'm also using a first-generation 12.9 inch iPad Pro.

01:16:53   I'm ready for a new iPad Pro. I'm ready for what this is. So I'm, you know, that, that takes it up

01:16:58   a level too. Like I, I, this is my travel and in the house device, I use this when I'm not at my

01:17:04   desk and I'm going to get a new one that looks great. So have we covered everything? Do you feel

01:17:09   good about everything? And like we've gone through all the products that we wanted to talk about?

01:17:14   Yeah, I feel like it. I feel like, uh, I mean, I'm sure there's more to pick apart. I'm sure that

01:17:18   over the next week, there are going to be details coming out, not only just on the web

01:17:22   and interviews with Apple execs that maybe are happening now with people in the press who

01:17:27   they'll drop tidbits. And presumably at some point they'll be, you know, people doing product

01:17:32   previews or reviews or YouTube clips or who knows what Apple is going to do this time for the product

01:17:37   rollout, but we'll get, we'll get more. The reviews are going to come very quickly,

01:17:40   would be my expectation because we've got a week. So at least maybe not reviews, but like,

01:17:45   what would be the embargoed stuff? I mean, it's probably going to come on Monday or Tuesday of

01:17:49   next week. Um, so that'd be fun. So we're not going long to wait for these things.

01:17:52   Yeah. So more, more to talk about certainly. But I think for now, I think we've covered a lot of it.

01:17:57   I bought all of it, Jason. Yeah. You know, I, it's the same old story,

01:18:01   Myke, which is I have the luxury of, um, of getting the review units oftentimes. And when

01:18:09   that happens, I, I get to try them, like get an extended trial period before I got to, I'm going

01:18:15   to buy it. I'm certainly going to buy an iPad pro. If you had asked me going into this event,

01:18:19   I would have said, I might try the smaller one, depending on how it feels. Now I feel almost

01:18:24   certain that I will buy the 12.9 because it's smaller and still has that beautiful big screen.

01:18:29   Oh, I didn't even mention the T the, so the 11 inch that's a different because they just

01:18:34   kept the same size and made the screen taller. It's a different aspect ratio.

01:18:38   It's not four by three. Exactly. Oh, and as a result, software for all these things,

01:18:44   cause they've got like, uh, uh, like content safe areas and all that apps need to be updated.

01:18:50   So on one of the iPads, I, I saw a, uh, uh, I saw, uh, shortcuts, an Apple app launch

01:18:57   on the iPad 11 and it had black bars on the sides. And I was like, Hmm, aha, interesting. So there

01:19:03   will be a period of adjustment for app developers too. But there's a frustrating thing that was

01:19:08   pointed out to me by John Voorhees cause he's been watching some of the developer videos that

01:19:12   they've been showing. If you have an updated app with 12.1 SDK and a non updated app running

01:19:18   side by side, it forces them both into a like site like non updated mode. So they both go into

01:19:25   compatibility mode. So they level out. So like Google's going to ruin everything for a while.

01:19:30   Yeah. Yeah. So, um, I will undoubtedly buy, uh, an iPad pro probably the 12.9. I will,

01:19:38   certainly buy a Mac mini because my Mac mini has the spontaneous question mark that happens where

01:19:43   it, I have to turn it off. I have to turn it off and on cause it's like, Oh, I forgot what I am.

01:19:48   Like your computer. Hello, wake up. And then you, you, you flip the power off and on and it comes,

01:19:53   what is a computer? Tim Cook says the iPad is a computer. So I don't even know what's going on

01:19:57   there. Um, so, uh, I'm going to get those and, um, Mac book air, you know, I don't use a Mac

01:20:06   laptop very much anymore. I do have an old Mac book air. My son who is a freshman in high school is

01:20:12   using a very old Mac book air of mine. Um, I hand me down from many, many, many years before, uh,

01:20:20   11 inch and it's a miracle. The thing still works and that it runs anything quite honestly. So is it

01:20:28   possible that I might end up getting him this Mac book air at some point? Um, yes, it is possible.

01:20:35   It is possible. So I may end up buying all of it. Myke is what I'm saying. And that is terrifying,

01:20:40   but Hey, uh, it happens. I haven't bought any of those things in a long time. Uh, I've ordered

01:20:45   both iPad pros to smart keyboards and two Apple pencils. Whew. Wow. Yeah. I've been, I've been

01:20:51   saving for this. Like I've been waiting for this since June, right? Like I've been, I've been

01:20:55   putting the money aside and these are my computers and I don't know if I will keep both. I expect

01:21:02   that I will honestly, um, because I use them both for the very distinct purposes. Like my 10.5 is

01:21:07   with me now. My 12.9 is at home when I get home, I'll be using the 12.9 and I've been starting to

01:21:12   use the 10.5 for reading and looking at stuff in bed and stuff like that. So I have like real

01:21:18   distinct uses for both of these machines. Um, and I am absolutely thrilled to be able to get my hands

01:21:24   on them. I love doing in-store pickup and you can't order them for in-store pickup right now.

01:21:30   So I've had to order them for home, which I hate because then they never delivers and it's just

01:21:35   like a whole big thing. So, you know, yeah. Fingers crossed, I guess for me. Yeah. I'm,

01:21:41   I'm, I'm looking forward to trying it out, uh, and seeing about the sizes too. Cause that's really,

01:21:45   that we, we, we have our gut feeling here, but it is like the ones getting bigger and the ones

01:21:49   getting smaller. And so how different are they? Uh, in the end, I think there will still be some

01:21:54   distinct differences, but we'll just have to see. Yeah. I'm really, really, really excited. And I'm

01:21:58   so excited to play around with that Apple Pencil. Boy. Oh boy. I can't wait to get my hands on that

01:22:02   thing. It looks to be honestly, Jason, this is going to change how I use the Apple Pencil,

01:22:07   like significantly. I'm going to use it more. It being charged all the time, you know,

01:22:12   that will be great. You know, the best pencil is the one you have with you. That's not, I mean,

01:22:16   yeah. See, maybe. Anyway, this episode is brought to you by PDF Pen, the ultimate tool for editing

01:22:25   PDFs from our friends at Smile talking about using the Apple Pencil. I'm so excited to be able to sign

01:22:31   PDFs with my new Apple Pencil on my new iPad. Cause I do this all the time. I use PDF Pen on my iPad

01:22:36   pretty much every day, especially right now as we're getting to go into a new year, lots and lots

01:22:40   of contracts going backwards and forwards for me right now with my job. And I use PDF Pen to open

01:22:47   those contracts, to sign them, to take horrifically formatted word documents and turn them into

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01:24:00   at Smilesoftware.com/podcast. That is Smilesoftware.com/podcast to find out more.

01:24:05   Thanks to Smiles and PDF Pen for their support of this show and all of Relay FM.

01:24:11   - I have an item that we can put in the show notes, which is a tweet from my friend Andy Anotko.

01:24:17   If you'd like a picture of me trying out the 12.9, you may see it there. That is literally

01:24:26   what I'm doing. And I did notice that the waiting line was right below me and I was like, okay,

01:24:30   I better make this step here. But yeah, the lady to the left there is like trying to do an AR demo.

01:24:37   And I'm literally like, yes, why don't you let me hold it and look at the AR image? Because I don't

01:24:42   care about your AR demo at all. I care about holding this thing in my hands.

01:24:46   - Look at that smile. Look at that smile. - And look what's on the top of it, Myke.

01:24:51   There's a little pencil. There's a little pencil just pushed up there.

01:24:55   - Is that like a Lego set next to you? - Yeah. The Lego, that was also an AR thing.

01:25:02   - No one wants to do the AR demo, right? So you just rush in.

01:25:05   - That's well, so we were waiting for a standard 12.9 demo and I had somebody come up to me and say,

01:25:11   an Apple person say, there are 12.9s back here with the AR demos. You could look at those. And

01:25:17   we're like, that was great because there was nobody over there. But at the same time,

01:25:20   those people had been trained to do their spiel about AR and it was like, I really don't care.

01:25:26   And I didn't say this. I was like, yeah, could I try it? And then it was like, yeah, let me,

01:25:29   whoa, look, I'm moving it around while also holding it and feeling what it was like. So

01:25:35   like, yep, that's a fun, fun thing. Thank you to Andy for spotting me having fun while he was just

01:25:41   waiting in a line. I feel bad about that part. - We have some hashtag ask upgrade to get to.

01:25:48   - New York lasers. - John asks, am I right in assuming that the

01:25:52   new iPads have tapped to raise to wake? Like you can tap on the screen or pick them up to wake them

01:25:57   now that there's no home button. They do. I don't know if you saw this, but I read it in the

01:26:02   documents. - I didn't do the tap to like raise to wake, but I did the tap. Just, I did it completely

01:26:10   instinctually because it's an iPhone 10 gesture and I went tap and it was like, aha, yes, that

01:26:16   totally worked. That was, yeah, absolutely. It is, these are like big, I would say big iPhone 10,

01:26:22   tens, but it's like probably like really giant iPhone 10 hours kind of, right? Because it's the

01:26:27   LCD screen and there's no notch, but there is like all those kinds of iPad, all the iPhone 10

01:26:32   gestures that we complained were kind of like inconsistent between that and the iPad. They're

01:26:36   all consistent now. - That's really great. That's just gonna make it easier to move between devices,

01:26:42   I think. And the tap to wake one is just, it's just a really great gesture that I enjoy anyway.

01:26:48   So I'm super happy to see that come to the iPad. Frank asks, Jason, since the new iPad

01:26:53   Pro hasn't made the jump to OLED yet, does it look noticeably different than your OLED phone?

01:26:58   - No, I mean, you could read my iPhone 10R review, which just posted yesterday.

01:27:02   - I'll talk about that next week, by the way, just so people know, like the iPhone 10R,

01:27:06   Jason has one and has reviewed it. And I think that's gonna be a real good topic for next week,

01:27:12   but yeah, we can talk about it a little now too. - Yeah, it just, I wanted to point out that,

01:27:17   you know, until last year, all the iPhones were just LCD displays, not OLEDs. And it was fine.

01:27:28   Right. And so, no, that's my answer is, will I notice that the blacks aren't as black as on

01:27:33   my iPhone? Yes, but I don't use my iPhone for the same things I use my iPad for. And I don't really

01:27:40   notice it that much now when I have the current, you know, the last generation iPad and the iPhone

01:27:46   10. So I don't think it's a big deal. - Our next question comes from Alex and Alex wants to know,

01:27:51   is the new Apple Pencil and or its new features compatible with older iPad Pros or the current

01:27:56   iPad? The answer is no. I looked this up earlier. This new Apple Pencil is just for the third

01:28:03   generation iPad Pros and Apple are still selling the previous version of the Apple Pencil for

01:28:10   the 10.5 inch and the regular iPad. So there's two different Apple pencils available right now.

01:28:14   - And they didn't say anything. I am assuming that the Logitech Crayon doesn't work with these

01:28:18   either, but I don't know. - Yeah, 'cause this is the thing, they haven't really said how they pair.

01:28:23   They just said they pair automatically. - Well, they pair when you attach it magnetically. That's

01:28:28   how they pair. - That's how it's doing. - It's that simple. You literally snap it on and if it

01:28:31   hasn't been paired yet, it slides down a thing that says, oh, here's a new Apple Pencil. Would

01:28:35   you like to pair it? And you say yes and that's it. - But like what is the underlying technology?

01:28:39   - I don't know. - Is it Bluetooth? Is it something more? 'Cause again, it's like,

01:28:42   will that automatically switch between iPads? Like this is stuff we don't know yet. So that would be

01:28:49   like, oh, well, that's not the Bluetooth anymore probably. I don't like something else. So we'll

01:28:52   wait and see on that one. Christopher wants to know, Jason, what are your thoughts on the squared

01:28:55   off edges of the new iPad? Like, is it comfortable for you to hold? Are you excited about balancing

01:29:00   it on tables? Like what do you think? - I love it. I love the feel of it. Like I said, going from

01:29:05   curved to flat, it is, they feel good. I like the flat edges. I like the look of it. I think they

01:29:13   look really good. It does hearken back to the original iPad, which had the flat edges. It

01:29:16   hearkens back to the iPhone 5 style design, which is a good design, I think. And yeah, I just, I

01:29:23   mean, everybody can have their own opinion about it. It's kind of purely aesthetic, I guess, unless

01:29:28   you, they felt good to hold. Like they look good. They felt good. I liked them. I liked that it's,

01:29:34   you know, it's good for me. I'm quite happy with it. Then again, I also only held them for

01:29:41   short periods of time. So if there's an issue where it's not as good when you hold it for,

01:29:46   you know, an hour, then I don't know that part yet. - Yeah. We'll wait and see. So I like the

01:29:54   design. I like it. I think it looks really fancy. I like when you have something you use all the

01:30:00   time and then it changes ever so slightly. So it feels new, right? Like, and that's going to make

01:30:05   it feel and look really new is these new edges. I think it's going to be really cool. Giles wants

01:30:10   to know what the MacBook Air keyboard feels like. I don't know if you'd had much time with the third

01:30:16   generation one on, I don't remember. - I typed on this and I typed on, I used the third. I don't

01:30:23   know if I've used the third. I used the second generation, which my understanding is pretty

01:30:27   similar. And of course the first generation on the original MacBook. And the answer is, you know,

01:30:32   that's what it is. It's, you know, these keyboards, these butterfly keyboards, that's what it is

01:30:37   that, you know, love it or hate it. That's what it is. - Nick wants to know, how do you feel about

01:30:43   the camera bump on the iPad? So the camera, we didn't even mention this by the way, it's a really

01:30:48   good camera. It has like smart HDR. It has everything. So it's a pretty powerful camera

01:30:53   system going into this, but it has introduced an iPhone 10R like bump on the back, right? They look

01:30:59   very similar actually. How do you feel about it? - Wasn't there a camera bump on the iPad before?

01:31:06   - There is, but I think it's a little bit, I think it looks a little bit more pronounced if it is or

01:31:11   it isn't, but I just wondered if you had any thoughts about it. - I have no opinion about it really.

01:31:15   I don't think it's a big deal. I very rarely am using my iPad flat on a table. And I usually have

01:31:24   it in a case anyway, but I very rarely have it flat on the table. So I don't really think I care.

01:31:29   I will tell you sometimes I am sitting somewhere with my iPad and I want to take a photo immediately

01:31:34   and I am always disappointed with how bad the iPad camera is. So I'm excited that the iPad camera

01:31:40   got such a big update. And by the way, on the front facing camera, since it's got the whole

01:31:46   touch ID stuff, face ID, I mean not touch ID, the whole face ID stuff in that sensor bar,

01:31:52   there's a portrait mode. There's a portrait selfie mode that you can enter in the camera app. And

01:31:59   it's a little bit different because it's only on the front. It's not on the rear.

01:32:04   - Okay. - I believe. And so yeah,

01:32:06   if you want to do a portrait selfie on the iPad Pro, you can do that too. Yeah.

01:32:10   - And we're assuming it has me emoji. They didn't show it, but I'm assuming it has it.

01:32:14   - I don't know why it wouldn't, right? Have Animoji and Memoji because it's got all the stuff. Yeah.

01:32:19   Yeah. I mean, unless there's some quirk where it can do face ID in every orientation,

01:32:24   but it can't do Animoji in every orientation or something like that. They definitely didn't

01:32:28   mention it, but I can't imagine that it doesn't given that it's got that sensor.

01:32:33   - I saw Matthew Panzorino on Twitter because somebody asked him and he posted a little video

01:32:38   of like, if you put the iPad flat and using a pencil, does it rock? And it doesn't. It seems

01:32:44   to stay pretty stable. One of the other things is honestly, I'm going to use it with the folio on

01:32:49   and the folio cancels out the bump because it goes all the way around the back now. So

01:32:53   if you use it like that, which I think is really the primary way to use the iPad Pros are in with

01:32:59   the keyboard. I know it's more expensive, but it really does feel like the way the device is

01:33:04   designed to be used, you never even notice the bump. And lastly today, Eugene wants to know,

01:33:09   do we think that there are enough magnets to actually attach and hold an iPad Pro to a fridge?

01:33:13   - I don't know. I guess it depends whether it's positive or negative, right? But.

01:33:19   - Eugene, you buy one and try it yourself and let us know.

01:33:22   - Yeah.

01:33:23   - We may not experiment with that ourselves. I do wonder if we will see some accessories

01:33:31   that are all sort of like trying to take advantage of that magnet array.

01:33:36   - My expectation is the new smart connector placement and all these magnets in theory will

01:33:42   make it easier to make stuff for it. But I guess we will have to just wait and see if anybody bothers

01:33:47   again. Because we still don't know if the reason there hasn't been smart connector accessories were

01:33:54   a problem with the smart connector or just a lack of interest from manufacturers.

01:33:57   - I think the bottom line is that in the grand scheme of things, there aren't that many iPad Pros

01:34:03   sold. And there are two different sizes of them now. They're even newer sizes of them now.

01:34:09   - Making it harder.

01:34:09   - And yeah, you make an iPhone case and you can sell a million of them. You make an iPad Pro 12.9

01:34:17   case, how many of those can you sell? So I think that's a big part of the problem.

01:34:20   - Well, this was an unexpected in some instances event. There were absolutely no concrete

01:34:27   information going into it. There was no leaks of any parts or anything like that.

01:34:31   - No leaks. We talked to an Apple PR person. We're like, no leaks. And they're like, yeah,

01:34:34   that's right. That's right. They did it. They managed to do it. Yeah. No, it's surprising.

01:34:42   And Myke, if you had made a bet with me earlier this year.

01:34:46   - Mm-hmm.

01:34:47   - That Apple would do an event where two of the three featured products on stage

01:34:56   at a special media event where the MacBook Air and the Mac mini.

01:35:00   - I would have made some money, I think.

01:35:02   - Oh my goodness. I would have just laughed and said that the odds of that happening are zero.

01:35:08   So you never know with what Apple is gonna do. Sometimes Apple really surprises you.

01:35:14   As we were surprised by the rumor that Ming-Chi Kuo suggests that there might be an update to

01:35:21   the iPad mini. - The iPad mini got multiple

01:35:23   shout outs on stage today. I mean, nothing happened to it, but they referenced its existence.

01:35:28   - I think that's really telling that they included it in the product lineup

01:35:32   and acknowledge that it exists. Because remember-

01:35:35   - Now the iPad mini is a product in the lineup.

01:35:37   - That's right. Once the Mac mini was just a product that remained in the lineup and

01:35:41   now there's a new Mac mini, now the iPad mini remains in the lineup.

01:35:44   - So Jason, thank you so much to calling in from New York City.

01:35:51   - I wanna thank Lex Friedman at Stitcher for setting us up in the-

01:35:55   - Thank you, Lex. - High above Midtown

01:35:57   Manhattan, the Stitcher and Midroll Studio complex, the Lex Friedman empire. So thanks to them for

01:36:06   hosting me today. I needed somewhere to go and there was like, will I go back to my hotel room,

01:36:12   which I've checked out of or like, how's it gonna work? And this, and Lex swept in and said,

01:36:16   I've got a space for you. So thanks to Lex and everybody at Stitcher for being very nice and

01:36:21   letting me sit in one of their studios. - I'll extend a thanks to myself for

01:36:25   staying in Toronto for an extra day. - Thanks to Myke for delaying his flight by a day.

01:36:29   - That was a funny thing to have to go through last week. So I'm leaving.

01:36:36   - For home tomorrow. Actually recording connected before I check out of my hotel.

01:36:41   Federico Vitigi is gonna fly home and it's gonna be super weird. He's gonna get home. He'll be

01:36:47   there a couple of hours. I'm still in Canada. We're all over the place right now. Apple is

01:36:51   disrupting all of our travel plans, but for a very, very good reason. This is a very,

01:36:56   very exciting event. I loved it and I love the products that were announced. There's a lot of

01:37:00   really, really great stuff that I'm very excited to talk about over the next few weeks. We will be

01:37:06   back next week and we're excited for that. Probably you can expect some iPhone XR discussion

01:37:11   next week along with I guess some more fallout of the event where we learn more as we always do over

01:37:17   the next few days. You can find show notes for this episode in your podcast player of choice or

01:37:22   over at relay.fm/upgrade/217. I want to extend our thanks again to Luna Display, PDF Pen and

01:37:29   HelloFresh for supporting this episode. You can find Jason online at sixcolors.com. I'm sure you

01:37:34   can expect lots of great words to be written there, which will supplement the stuff that

01:37:39   we've spoken about today. So go check that out. Jason is also on Twitter. He's @Jsonel.

01:37:44   I am @imike. You can follow me on Twitter and on Instagram. I would love it if you would. And we'll

01:37:51   be back next time. Don't forget #soneltalk, #askupgrade to get involved with the show.

01:37:58   And we'll be back next week. Until then, say goodbye, Jason Sonnell.

01:38:02   [ Jason ] Forget about it. [ Jason ] He's walking here.

01:38:05   [ Jason ] Are you talking to me? [ Jason ] I think I was, yeah.

01:38:09   [ Jason ] That's how it works.