196: Workflow Siren


00:00:00   (beep)

00:00:00   (upbeat music)

00:00:03   - From Relay FM, this is Upgrade episode 196.

00:00:12   Today's show is brought to you by Away, Eero and Timing.

00:00:16   My name is Myke Hurley.

00:00:18   I am joined across this lovely table,

00:00:20   somewhere in a secret location in San Jose, California

00:00:24   by Mr. Jason Snell.

00:00:25   Hi, Jason Snell.

00:00:26   - Hi, Myke Hurley.

00:00:26   From high above San Jose, California.

00:00:28   - Yes, looking down upon the beautiful developers below,

00:00:32   the migration of developers that is occurring

00:00:35   from the WWDC Convention Center

00:00:37   to many various lunch and coffee places around

00:00:39   as it is lunch time.

00:00:40   Because we have just seen the end of the keynote,

00:00:42   the WWDC keynote for this year,

00:00:45   and we've got a ton to talk about,

00:00:47   but of course we must start every episode,

00:00:49   as we always do, of a #snowtalk question.

00:00:52   And this one comes from me to you, Jason,

00:00:53   because I wanted to ask a follow-up question

00:00:56   based upon last week's question of your seating

00:00:58   in the keynote. How was your C at the keynote this year?

00:01:02   - Really good.

00:01:03   - Oh, look at you.

00:01:04   - Really good. Usually what's happened at WWDC

00:01:08   is they bring in the media and they take us

00:01:11   all the way off to the side and put us kind of like

00:01:13   way in the back on the side.

00:01:15   And I fully expected that this time

00:01:17   and they led us to basically right in the front.

00:01:20   So we were center.

00:01:22   - So what we know in is that somebody,

00:01:24   this person in charge of seeing,

00:01:26   listened to last week's episode and they were like,

00:01:28   "Oh, we cannot have Jason Snow in a bad position.

00:01:31   "We must give him a great seat."

00:01:33   - They decided to take us media type people

00:01:36   and put us in the center, which was very nice.

00:01:40   It was a much nicer view than we've had lately.

00:01:42   I could see the people on stage a little bit

00:01:45   and that was good.

00:01:46   And I was sitting with Serenity Caldwell to my right

00:01:49   and Renee Ritchie to my left.

00:01:51   Jim Dalrymple was a couple people down.

00:01:53   Ena Fried from Recode was a couple people down.

00:01:56   I'm just a lot-- - That's a must group.

00:01:58   lot going on yeah so should we do the draft results yeah let's do it so I

00:02:05   believe if memory serves I won last year's WWDC draft right because we tied

00:02:09   for the year where I won WWDC and you won the September event right I don't

00:02:14   want to speak to you soon Jason but I think I think I might have think I might

00:02:18   have won this one too so let's I have I have us scored at five points for you

00:02:23   and either six or seven points for me would you like me to read how I've

00:02:27   scored this. I would like to see that. So I've given you a point for new parental

00:02:31   controls, new animoji, ARKit updates, HomeKit on Mac OS, which was the biggest

00:02:37   surprise to me of your points, and a HomePod mention. HomePod was mentioned a

00:02:42   couple of times, especially with the Siri shortcuts. Like, you can activate

00:02:46   Siri shortcuts from your HomePod. Oh. That's a mention. That is. That's all I

00:02:50   was looking for. Well that's great because I only scored four because I

00:02:53   I totally missed that mention.

00:02:54   So five for me, hooray.

00:02:57   - My, the one that I think I'm the most proud of

00:03:00   was digital wellbeing overarching concept.

00:03:02   So it was, they didn't give it a name,

00:03:04   but they were like here,

00:03:05   and it was exactly what I said, right?

00:03:07   Parental controls and notifications

00:03:09   and do not disturb will be called out as a thing

00:03:12   and they're gonna talk about them.

00:03:13   And they did exactly that.

00:03:15   So then with that, I got notifications overhaul,

00:03:17   focus on bug fixes, performance improvements and stability,

00:03:21   Animoji integration in FaceTime,

00:03:23   Do Not Disturb overhaul,

00:03:25   and a mention of user-automational workflow.

00:03:28   The one that I'm not sure about is,

00:03:30   'cause we'll get to this later on,

00:03:32   I was a little bit distracted during the Apple Watch part,

00:03:34   and the overhaul for app developer APIs.

00:03:38   I mean, there were new ones,

00:03:39   but it didn't really feel overhauled

00:03:40   in the way I was expecting.

00:03:42   - I didn't score it that way.

00:03:43   If that is indeed there,

00:03:45   it's not something that they will reveal later.

00:03:48   - They definitely introduced a bunch of new additions,

00:03:51   that it didn't feel like an overhaul

00:03:52   in the way that I was imagining it anyway.

00:03:54   - No, I agree, I agree.

00:03:55   - So I would score this a five to you and six to me,

00:03:59   which means I picked up the draft win.

00:04:00   - Yeah, I think I'm gonna go with that.

00:04:02   I could probably quibble.

00:04:06   You know the thing that won it for you?

00:04:08   'Cause I will concede that you won.

00:04:10   The thing that won it for me,

00:04:13   well, there's a couple of things here.

00:04:14   I am amazed and we'll get into it.

00:04:16   I'm amazed at mention of user automation/workflow.

00:04:20   And technically they didn't mention Workflow, but that's because they released a new app that is Workflow with a different name.

00:04:27   Automator.

00:04:28   And also Automator was mentioned on stage.

00:04:31   Okay, the one that won it for you though is you said focus on bug fixes/performance improvements/stability.

00:04:39   And my reason of not taking that was because I thought Apple's not gonna do, they're not gonna have, they're gonna have too much pride.

00:04:48   to say, "Mea culpa, stability bug fixes."

00:04:51   But performance improvements, Myke.

00:04:53   Performance improvements.

00:04:54   - That's the way you say it, right?

00:04:56   But even then though, like-

00:04:58   - But the whole section was labeled performance.

00:05:01   So that's absolutely what it was.

00:05:03   So I tip my hat to you, six, five, hard fought, close.

00:05:07   I didn't embarrass myself like you did in Chicago.

00:05:09   And we're tied.

00:05:10   - I would say one of the funny,

00:05:14   But this one, I scored all of my points really soon.

00:05:18   And I thought I was gonna like just--

00:05:20   - Run away with it. - Completely wipe the floor.

00:05:22   And you pulled back, especially 'cause the,

00:05:23   that when we were coming down to it,

00:05:25   I was like, there's no way it's getting home kit.

00:05:26   Like that, I was like, no, there's no way.

00:05:28   And I was really surprised that it did that.

00:05:29   There was a very good reason for it

00:05:31   that we'll get into a little later on.

00:05:33   So we're gonna talk about iOS 12

00:05:35   and macOS and watchOS today.

00:05:37   Before we do, I kind of wanted to talk about WWDC as a whole

00:05:40   because being here in San Jose,

00:05:42   everyone over the last 24 to 48 hours has been talking about one thing and that one

00:05:48   thing is it's gonna be boring, right? Like there's no leaks. We're gonna have a boring

00:05:53   year. So my question to you, was this a quiet year or was this a secretive year?

00:06:00   Well, I think a little bit of both. I think it's a quiet year. Sometimes they do hardware

00:06:07   and we mentioned hardware in our draft picks.

00:06:09   - Zero hardware.

00:06:10   - I love the expectation setting.

00:06:13   Actually at the beginning and end of the keynote,

00:06:14   there were a couple of moments

00:06:15   that I thought were very smart,

00:06:17   where Apple could have gone another way,

00:06:19   and they chose at the beginning to say,

00:06:21   it's all about software.

00:06:22   And the message there was very clear, which is--

00:06:25   - Don't expect this.

00:06:26   - There will be no hardware in this keynote.

00:06:28   Just forget it.

00:06:28   Remember, they used to do that,

00:06:30   that at least one year,

00:06:31   they actually like leaked to the New York Times or something,

00:06:33   a story saying, there will not be hardware at the keynote

00:06:37   because they wanted to get that out there

00:06:38   and set the expectations.

00:06:40   So they did that right at the beginning.

00:06:42   That said, there's a lot going on here

00:06:45   in terms of the operating systems,

00:06:46   which is what this thing is about.

00:06:48   That is what WWDC is about.

00:06:50   It is about making, you know,

00:06:53   it's the new year for Apple to start the clock,

00:06:56   start the summer working on the OSs

00:06:58   that will drop in the fall with the iPhone releases

00:07:00   and on we go.

00:07:01   And so they can keep a lot of that stuff secret

00:07:04   and they did.

00:07:06   Some of it leaked, but the details didn't.

00:07:10   If you define this as no hardware, so it's boring,

00:07:13   then yeah, okay, I guess.

00:07:15   But they did make a bunch of statements

00:07:16   about where they're taking their platforms,

00:07:18   which is why we're here.

00:07:20   - Yeah, see, I was thinking that,

00:07:21   and I think we were both assuming there would be hardware

00:07:23   'cause we didn't think there was gonna be

00:07:24   a lot of software stuff.

00:07:25   And I would say that on the whole, there was.

00:07:28   I'm actually quite surprised at just how much there was,

00:07:32   especially there was some strange pacing moments

00:07:34   during the keynote where they would start talking

00:07:35   about news and stocks and iBooks or Apple Books.

00:07:40   And it's like, okay, where are we going with this?

00:07:42   And then they would come in with another huge feature.

00:07:44   And it was really, it was a really interesting balance

00:07:47   in this one to the point where I'm pretty surprised

00:07:50   just how much we got.

00:07:51   And I think that I would agree with you

00:07:52   that there are definitely some elements where it was quiet,

00:07:56   but I think that overall,

00:07:58   the reason we didn't know anything beforehand

00:08:00   is nobody was talking beforehand.

00:08:02   Like this was a year where clearly

00:08:05   the secrecy has worked because there was some really key parts of this like a lot of the

00:08:09   Siri improvements and stuff like that. A lot of the details stuff like Memoji, a lot of

00:08:16   the ARKit stuff, some of it got out but not all of it and I think that that was really

00:08:21   really interesting. The videos are really fun too I think. The videos to open and close

00:08:28   were really good. I liked those a lot.

00:08:30   Yeah they did a good job.

00:08:31   they did a good job of showing the people that were there that they cared because they were kind

00:08:37   of like important people in the indie Apple development community were very clearly called out

00:08:43   in comedic ways as like a we get this we're in this with you and I think that that really set a

00:08:49   good tone for the day. Yeah visible appearances by people we know who are who are fairly visible

00:08:57   in the community that was nice, and to set the tone of like, "We know, we get you."

00:09:03   And genuinely funny, too. I loved that idea of the migration, and it was like, whilst making fun,

00:09:11   it was in a harmless way, like ways that we all make fun of ourselves.

00:09:14   Yeah, it was, "We're with you in the sun, oh no."

00:09:18   And like the guys with their passes joining up, and everyone's so awkward around, it worked.

00:09:22   And I think they've really walked a line

00:09:25   that could have been like they're making fun of us,

00:09:27   but I think they absolutely perfectly nailed the tone

00:09:30   of those videos.

00:09:31   And obviously they had a big emotional video at the end,

00:09:33   right, like as you do with an event like this.

00:09:35   So I was really impressed with that.

00:09:37   And just as a very quick kind of wrap up,

00:09:40   like some of the, I guess the key messages

00:09:41   like the app store's turning 10 soon.

00:09:43   That's probably gonna be a really big deal

00:09:45   from a press release thing.

00:09:46   I think that's pretty soon, right?

00:09:48   Is the next few weeks or something?

00:09:50   The app store turns 10.

00:09:51   That was what Tim Cook was pointing out at the beginning.

00:09:54   So all of that stuff is really interesting.

00:09:57   I think that I've come away from this being,

00:10:00   I was pretty surprised that I'm pretty happy

00:10:04   with the amount that was announced.

00:10:07   I think that we got a lot of really good stuff.

00:10:10   So we should probably get into some of those.

00:10:12   - We probably should.

00:10:13   - Let me take our first break first

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00:12:18   - Yeah.

00:12:19   iOS 12, should we start with iOS 12?

00:12:22   - Yeah, let's do it.

00:12:23   - So what are the iOS features

00:12:26   that you are the most interested in

00:12:28   if everything announced today?

00:12:29   Like what were the things that really have got you

00:12:32   either feeling kind of surprised or interested?

00:12:35   Like what is the stuff that's going on

00:12:37   that you're the most engaged with?

00:12:39   - Really, I mean, the idea that they're doing

00:12:43   all of this sort of managing your distractions

00:12:46   is interesting to me.

00:12:48   but I am very particularly interested in the fact

00:12:51   that they're letting you do notifications.

00:12:53   I didn't think it was super realistic

00:12:57   that Apple was gonna provide you with tools

00:12:59   to control notifications directly

00:13:02   from within the notification.

00:13:02   - This is exactly what you asked for, Laswell.

00:13:04   - It is exactly.

00:13:06   Literally, make this only go to the screen and not pop up,

00:13:11   or make it go away forever,

00:13:13   or give me specific options

00:13:15   about what to do with this thing.

00:13:16   - And even they said that Siri can recommend to you

00:13:19   to just say like, "Stop getting notifications

00:13:22   from this app, you never use it."

00:13:24   Right, like stuff like that.

00:13:25   It's like, "Yeah, please, that's what I need."

00:13:28   And I loved that they called out grouped notifications.

00:13:31   And it was so fun as introducing it.

00:13:33   You also had it before you removed it.

00:13:35   I mean, this is smarter, the groupings,

00:13:37   that are grouping not just by app, but also by like topics.

00:13:41   And I'm interested to see what that's actually gonna mean.

00:13:43   Like maybe social applications all get grouped together

00:13:46   or something like that.

00:13:48   I'm keen to see what that actually looks like.

00:13:50   - Looks like they're using App Store.

00:13:52   In a few places in their announcements today,

00:13:55   they're using, I think, App Store classifications

00:13:57   or something in order to organize apps together

00:14:00   in groupings.

00:14:01   But it sounds like you can also break out by app, app name.

00:14:06   - And I'm just, I'm excited about that.

00:14:07   I think that those changes to notifications

00:14:10   are gonna be really big for me

00:14:12   in the way that I manage my devices, you know?

00:14:15   And then kind of, I guess, hand in hand with that

00:14:18   is do not disturb stuff.

00:14:20   I really liked that, 'cause I mean,

00:14:21   I had it this morning, right?

00:14:23   So I'm jet lagged right now.

00:14:25   So I woke up at like 4.30 this morning.

00:14:29   And while I grabbed my phone to look at the time,

00:14:32   and there were a bunch of notifications there,

00:14:34   I kind of got a little bit distracted

00:14:36   by the notifications that popped up.

00:14:38   And this do not disturb,

00:14:40   is it called do not disturb during bedtime?

00:14:43   It like just, it just hides it.

00:14:44   and you have to forcibly check it.

00:14:46   So you can look at the time on your phone,

00:14:49   but not necessarily get drawn in by all the notifications.

00:14:52   - There's no like, "Oh God, the world is ending."

00:14:54   - Exactly.

00:14:55   - Right below it.

00:14:56   - Or just like, "Hey, Myke, check out this great offer

00:14:58   "waiting for you."

00:14:59   And I'm like, "Oh, I wanna know about great offers."

00:15:01   So I open my email.

00:15:03   I like that.

00:15:04   And then in the morning they show you the weather,

00:15:06   and you have to say, "I'm ready for my day."

00:15:08   These are really smart things

00:15:12   that are not based upon this incredible machine learning.

00:15:15   You know what I mean?

00:15:16   Like this is something that you could be like,

00:15:17   "Well, it's bedtime, so just stop showing notifications.

00:15:20   "We know what time it wakes up

00:15:21   "'cause it's got an alarm.

00:15:23   "We'll change it then."

00:15:24   Like that is very simple stuff that comes with thought.

00:15:27   And I can see a lot of thought has gone into this

00:15:29   and I think it's really cool.

00:15:30   - Yeah, and it seems simple in one way,

00:15:32   but in many ways these are the kind of features

00:15:35   that will have the biggest impact on people's lives.

00:15:37   So many people use iPhones

00:15:39   and it is such a personal device.

00:15:41   it is integrated into your life.

00:15:43   That really every interaction that they modify,

00:15:47   think of it this way,

00:15:50   every iOS user out there, every iPhone user,

00:15:53   if you save them five seconds a day,

00:15:58   you saved what, thousands of years of human lives

00:16:02   with one feature change?

00:16:04   Like the impact is great for something as simple as

00:16:08   you get back to sleep because you don't see

00:16:10   all your notifications, or it keeps things simple in the morning until you're ready for

00:16:16   it.

00:16:17   Like that is going, and the fun thing about being at these events and thinking about this

00:16:20   stuff is we're talking about it now, but in the fall when people update their OS on their

00:16:27   iPhone that's when it's going to start like hitting regular people and it's going to change

00:16:32   their lives too, in little ways but important ways in some cases when they update to cloth.

00:16:37   I kind of like the way that Apple pitched it as well,

00:16:40   'cause without implicitly saying it,

00:16:42   it's kind of like, well, we kind of created a problem here.

00:16:45   Like we know, we can see what's going on,

00:16:47   we understand how people were using these things

00:16:50   and we're going for it.

00:16:51   And again, like a lot of this stuff

00:16:52   was in the next version of Android MP,

00:16:56   but that made me want them even more.

00:17:01   So like seeing Apple do something like screen time,

00:17:04   which was kind of like the third leg of this stool.

00:17:07   That's exactly what I wanted.

00:17:08   And it's very similar to what Android are doing.

00:17:11   I don't know, I didn't catch this.

00:17:12   I'm not sure if it's like, if this is part of settings

00:17:15   or if it's a separate app.

00:17:16   I wasn't completely clear about how that's gonna work.

00:17:19   - I'm not clear on that.

00:17:20   I'm sure somebody has already looked at the webpage

00:17:22   and downloaded the data and installed it

00:17:24   and broken their phone and all that.

00:17:25   - There are people in the chat room

00:17:26   that have literally already stored the bear on their iPads.

00:17:28   More power to you.

00:17:29   I love the idea of being able to,

00:17:32   I mean, I'm a time tracker, right?

00:17:33   That's a big thing that I do.

00:17:35   Being able to go into my iPad and see,

00:17:38   and it syncs across all of my devices,

00:17:40   which is even better, and be like,

00:17:42   oh, I spent, oh, I've spent like 20 hours

00:17:45   this week on Twitter.

00:17:46   - Yeah. - Like maybe I should

00:17:48   not do that anymore. - Maybe I should set

00:17:49   a little lower level and try to cut back a little bit.

00:17:51   - And I love that the limits thing is really clever.

00:17:54   Because, and I like it, they were kind of like,

00:17:56   look, we can set these limits, you can override them.

00:17:58   - You know, I was struck by that

00:18:01   about how Apple's recent, especially with the Apple Watch,

00:18:06   more than the iPhone, their focus on health

00:18:10   feeds into this feature.

00:18:13   A lot of the stats stuff, it looks like the health app.

00:18:19   It looks like the exact same things that we see stats on

00:18:22   for our health, except here it's about usage.

00:18:25   And I can feel that history of dealing with health

00:18:30   dealing with that stuff feeding into the way that they handle this stuff right

00:18:34   down to the fact that they're providing the realization that they're providing

00:18:38   motivation unless it's parental controls where there's actually a lockout somebody

00:18:43   else has the permission to override it but for you personally yeah you can just

00:18:47   dismiss it but the idea is that they're providing a motivator for you and that's

00:18:51   very much something that comes out of the health side plus all the charts and

00:18:54   everything feel very much like it.

00:18:56   This is mental health stuff.

00:18:58   Yeah it is.

00:18:58   - It is. - This stuff has big impacts

00:19:00   on the way that people live their lives.

00:19:02   And I am very happy to see Google and Apple

00:19:07   standing up at the same time

00:19:09   and trying to do something about this.

00:19:11   - Yeah, I was on the radio this morning.

00:19:15   And if you don't know what the radio is,

00:19:16   radio is a thing that they made before they made podcasts.

00:19:18   - It's like podcasting.

00:19:20   - Except it's linear, it's just I was on and then I was gone.

00:19:22   - Yeah.

00:19:23   - And then that was it. - And that's it.

00:19:25   - Where's Jason, can I get him back?

00:19:26   No, you can't, he's gone.

00:19:27   - It's like remember when podcasts were just on iPods?

00:19:29   It's like that, but there are these things called radios.

00:19:31   - Yes.

00:19:32   Anyway, I was on the radio and they said,

00:19:34   what's Apple's motivation for doing something like this?

00:19:37   Because this was a rumored feature and I mentioned it.

00:19:40   And the implication was, if you're the drug pusher,

00:19:44   don't you always want to keep them addicted?

00:19:48   And I think first off we could say,

00:19:51   either positively or negatively,

00:19:54   smartphones aren't going away, right?

00:19:55   Like either we could say we're all addicted

00:19:57   them it's too late. Or we could say they are too valuable and too important for

00:20:01   them to ever go away. Either way, it is the time to deal with the fallout of

00:20:07   their existence and how much they dominate our lives. And in that way, yes,

00:20:13   it is time. You know, they didn't realize when they built this stuff quite how

00:20:17   human behavior was going to change. And now we all know. And the next step is to

00:20:22   factor that in to your design. Like good design is not just how do I get people

00:20:29   evil apps, evil apps like games that make you they're trying to get you addicted.

00:20:35   They're like you they have a lot of gaming apps they'll have like

00:20:38   psychologists on staff and it's all about like how do we... The best way to

00:20:42   trick. Yeah how do we promote promote this and get it so that people keep

00:20:46   using it. But the right way to do it is to look at it and say okay turns out we

00:20:51   built this thing just because we thought it would be cool and it has this

00:20:53   predictive behavior. Where do we go from here? How do we get this to where we

00:20:58   want it to be? Where we want it to give people a little more empowerment to

00:21:02   understand what they're doing with their lives and how to make changes.

00:21:06   And that's not, to get back to the radio thing, like I don't think that's

00:21:10   antithetical to the values of Apple or Google for that matter in terms of

00:21:14   building these tools because they know how indispensable smartphones are. This

00:21:18   This is not about trying to tell you not to use your smartphone, because they know you're

00:21:23   going to use your smartphone.

00:21:24   It's just about using it better.

00:21:25   And they do want you to still use it, right?

00:21:27   Yeah, sure.

00:21:28   Because they still need you to.

00:21:29   It's important that you use it, but it is about time now, after having these things

00:21:34   for nearly 15 years, 10, 15 years, that we have got into these bad habits as smartphone

00:21:42   users and it's time.

00:21:44   The only people that can change it are the people that are feeding it.

00:21:47   And that's the platform.

00:21:49   And giving you tools to do it yourself is, you know, the first step is accepting sort

00:21:56   of like the premise and then you need to, as a developer or, you know, in this case

00:22:02   Apple, the developer of the system software is to say, "What do we want this to be?"

00:22:08   And the answer is, "Let's give people tools so that they can manage their own usage."

00:22:12   - And this also trickles down to parents too as well.

00:22:14   So I guess if you're in an iCloud family sharing thing,

00:22:17   you can enforce all of these restrictions.

00:22:19   - Yeah, it's like the reverse of,

00:22:21   a lot of times this stuff comes out of parental controls.

00:22:24   This feels like it's almost the reverse

00:22:26   where it's knowledge of how your usage is

00:22:30   and you can set your own levels,

00:22:32   but if you're a parent, you can lock it down for children.

00:22:36   Which I'm gonna, I will be fascinated to see

00:22:40   what the time profile is of my kids using their devices.

00:22:44   - YouTube, Netflix.

00:22:46   - Well yeah, and there is that question like,

00:22:47   with my daughter, do I say,

00:22:49   all right, you need to cut back on the Instagram time, right?

00:22:53   But this was something that Apple was under fire for,

00:22:55   of not providing better parental controls on iOS devices.

00:22:58   So here it is.

00:22:59   - But I am really happy

00:23:00   that this isn't just parental controls.

00:23:02   - Yes, yeah.

00:23:02   - Because I want all of this stuff for me.

00:23:04   'Cause I think this data can be very helpful.

00:23:07   - For, yeah, for everybody.

00:23:08   And that's why I like that it's put in this larger story

00:23:11   of everybody kind of paying more attention

00:23:14   to how they use stuff and be more aware of it.

00:23:16   As we've talked about before,

00:23:18   whenever you do time tracking,

00:23:19   you have that moment where you think,

00:23:21   oh really, what happened for that hour?

00:23:23   Where did that hour go?

00:23:24   And sometimes you aren't aware.

00:23:26   So having the stats can make a big difference

00:23:28   in self-realization.

00:23:30   - In the chat room, Triscoll has said

00:23:32   that Control Center was moved on the iPad.

00:23:35   The gesture is moved.

00:23:36   Apparently, all I know right now is that it's closer to the iPhone.

00:23:41   - Well, I will say that we, although all judgments are final,

00:23:48   if somebody can point out that the control center moving on the iPad appeared

00:23:52   in that slide of all the features, then we would be tied, but it didn't.

00:23:56   - I don't even think there was a...

00:23:57   - There wasn't.

00:23:57   - But this is not as a draft point, but just as something that we are

00:24:00   probably very excited about the possibility of.

00:24:01   - No, I'm excited. I'm moving control center. That's good.

00:24:04   There are a couple of other items that I was pretty excited about.

00:24:08   Okay.

00:24:09   I've really...

00:24:11   So when the ARKit demo begun, I was a bit like, "Ah, I don't know."

00:24:15   Like, "Fine, okay, I get it."

00:24:17   Tim's very excited about it. We gotta get it on stage. We gotta show it.

00:24:20   But by the end of that LEGO demo, which was long...

00:24:23   Long.

00:24:24   Very long demo, but I came away from it being pretty impressed by what they showed.

00:24:31   I was impressed by the technology.

00:24:33   I had a problem with the fundamentals of the LEGO people showing us AR characters jumping around

00:24:40   when you could just get out your minifigs and have them jump around. But instead what they were

00:24:45   showing was basically like your LEGO thing that you built unlocks a video game. And I think that's

00:24:54   cool because you know it depends on how you come to it but the play of the LEGO may be in the

00:25:01   building and then the game helps fuel the imagination.

00:25:05   Again, it just depends on what your personal preference is about yourself or your children

00:25:09   at video games.

00:25:10   But I thought that that whole little segment was pretty cool.

00:25:13   I liked a lot of the stuff.

00:25:15   I liked that two people can be in some kind of AR instance at the same time.

00:25:21   I thought that was pretty cool.

00:25:23   I liked that stuff and I'm interested to see where it goes.

00:25:26   I was really surprised to see Apple create this measure app,

00:25:31   because they have, at this point,

00:25:33   kind of Sherlocked every good utility

00:25:38   that I've seen in ARKit,

00:25:42   which is all this measuring stuff.

00:25:43   I don't know why they felt the need to do it now.

00:25:48   They should have done this last year.

00:25:50   I find that very peculiar.

00:25:51   - They must just feel that it's a fundamental utility

00:25:54   and that they could do it.

00:25:55   It may also be that they were not impressed

00:25:57   with any of those apps and they thought,

00:25:59   well, we'll show you how to do an AR app right

00:26:01   and we'll ship it on the device.

00:26:03   And it's like the compass app.

00:26:05   It's not gonna set the world on fire, but--

00:26:07   - But it's something that everyone should have

00:26:09   because the software is, the hardware is so tuned

00:26:13   to being able to give you this information.

00:26:15   We'll give you it.

00:26:16   But I feel bad for the people that make that stuff.

00:26:19   Memoji.

00:26:22   - Yeah, new Animoji character is not surprising.

00:26:27   - Not surprising.

00:26:28   - Memoji though, the custom character based on you,

00:26:32   and I was immediately taken back to the Wii.

00:26:37   We had the Wii for a long time

00:26:40   and we played a lot of games on it and my kids loved it,

00:26:43   but the one thing that they loved more than anything else,

00:26:45   more than any single game, to the point that to this day,

00:26:49   I will sometimes walk into the room

00:26:50   and find them on the Wii U in Wii mode just making Miis.

00:26:55   And the Miis on the Nintendo is, you know,

00:27:00   make a character, give them a skin color,

00:27:02   give them a haircut, give them a body shape,

00:27:04   give them eyebrows, all of those things.

00:27:06   They loved it, they made an entire,

00:27:08   literally there is like a mob of Miis on my Wii U.

00:27:13   You go in there and you're like,

00:27:15   oh my God, there's like 80 of them,

00:27:17   because my kids and their friends just kept on making them.

00:27:19   Well, Memoji allows iOS users to build a little person

00:27:24   and have it look whatever you want it to look like

00:27:29   and then use it as an Animoji.

00:27:32   - Yep, I use Bitmoji a lot.

00:27:35   Me and Adino use them together a lot.

00:27:37   And there is that element of like building

00:27:39   your own little character, right?

00:27:40   But these characters are so, it's so visually impressive

00:27:44   and the tools, it looks so cool to build them.

00:27:47   And I was really surprised how many places

00:27:49   keynote it kept popping up. They clearly see this as an important thing which I

00:27:54   think is great because I think we were talking about this like Animoji should

00:27:57   be in more parts of the system it shouldn't just be confined to the

00:28:01   messages app so showing up in FaceTime all that FaceTime stuff is gonna be

00:28:04   really fun I think putting effects in FaceTime and having these large groups

00:28:08   maybe we switch for podcasting finally. How about the idea that just as an

00:28:15   aside that I think we were talking about maybe you have FaceTime with two people

00:28:20   or maybe you have FaceTime with like five people and Apple was like how about

00:28:25   32 people so here's my question on this how do you go from zero to that many and

00:28:32   then why 32 they must have just decided they wanted to spend and set an upper

00:28:37   limit and I think the rationale is that if you've got a messages group right of

00:28:42   family or friends or whatever that you open it up and not everybody's gonna be

00:28:47   there and not everybody's gonna be on so that you may have people coming and

00:28:51   going and stuff. There is an app called a service called Houseparty which is

00:28:55   pretty popular with young people and it is this idea of it is persistent video

00:29:00   chat that you have these groups called rooms in the house and you can just drop

00:29:06   in at any point and some of your friends might be there and some won't be and you

00:29:10   can leave. This is what Apple has clearly been inspired by to build because you

00:29:14   can set them up with these group text groups and you just go in and you're

00:29:18   there and you can leave. I think this is really fun. I think this would be a good

00:29:22   feature. I'm it's just like I'm really pleased that it's here. It's just so

00:29:25   surprising that you would go from like two for how many years of FaceTime have been around.

00:29:30   And they're like, "Oh, well now, everyone? Everyone in your desk?"

00:29:33   Yeah, literally everybody you know just get them all on a FaceTime together and I did like that

00:29:37   the

00:29:38   They have it where they're trying to dynamically scale like who's been talking lately and yes hanging back

00:29:45   So for the video side of it, what are they going off? They're going off the hangouts. Like what is this?

00:29:49   Do you think I think this is I would say this is not targeted in anything in particular

00:29:55   But it's more like Apple is building a whole

00:29:58   social network inside of messages

00:30:01   - Mm, yeah, I like that. - Right?

00:30:03   Where it's like, instead of building a website

00:30:05   where you interact with other people,

00:30:08   you like, it's all ad hoc, it's all on messages,

00:30:10   it puts more pressure on people who don't have iPhones,

00:30:13   and in there, you can chat, you can send files,

00:30:17   you can send pictures, and you can do video chat

00:30:20   or audio chat or whatever,

00:30:22   like it's all just poured into messages.

00:30:24   Because they know people like messages

00:30:26   and use messages all the time.

00:30:28   So just load even more in there.

00:30:31   - It's interesting.

00:30:32   - And I think it's--

00:30:33   - And you could be a Memoji if you want to be.

00:30:35   - And I'm just-- - Oh yeah.

00:30:36   - They look really good. - They look really good.

00:30:38   - Like the way that the presenter was showing it

00:30:41   was so cool 'cause they were just showing her screen

00:30:44   like to us, all we could see was just her creation screen.

00:30:47   But as she's talking, her character is animating everything.

00:30:50   - You start as like a bald blob

00:30:52   and then you evolve from there, that's weird, weird.

00:30:54   - But I'm really excited to play around with that

00:30:57   and I'm super excited to see where they take that.

00:31:00   as a thing because that is like,

00:31:04   that is a really, really exciting way

00:31:06   to move emoji forward, I think,

00:31:07   and is gonna be cool for Apple to kind of,

00:31:10   'cause look, as soon as they showed this,

00:31:12   I was like, oh no, 'cause Samsung did that AR emoji thing.

00:31:15   - Right, right. - It was horrifying.

00:31:16   - Super horrific and weird.

00:31:17   - For whatever reason, I mean, I guess it's the cute,

00:31:20   the cute animation and the better technology

00:31:24   means it looks way better.

00:31:25   - And how many, thinking bigger picture,

00:31:30   'cause the iPhone 10's out, right?

00:31:32   How many face ID,

00:31:36   true depth devices are they gonna sell this fall?

00:31:41   'Cause you know there'll be an iPhone 10

00:31:45   and an iPhone 10 Plus,

00:31:46   and that iPhone 9 or whatever that's rumored

00:31:49   that will also have the forward cameras

00:31:51   that will support Animoji.

00:31:52   And presumably the iPads too.

00:31:55   So they're gonna have all these devices

00:31:58   because this is the thing,

00:31:59   is like people are gonna want Memoji.

00:32:02   - Their own emoji. - And Animoji.

00:32:03   - It's like the reason that we use Bitmoji, right?

00:32:06   - Exactly. - It's fun.

00:32:07   - And Apple looks like they're gonna,

00:32:09   sure, if you got these models, these new models,

00:32:13   you get that feature,

00:32:15   and that's gonna help them sell products as well.

00:32:17   - And tongue detection.

00:32:18   - And tongue detection. - I know that sounds silly,

00:32:20   but I still do this.

00:32:22   I still stick my tongue out with Animoji,

00:32:24   'cause I don't know, it's just like a thing.

00:32:26   Like it makes, you know.

00:32:27   - It's part of making a funny face.

00:32:28   And so, you know, and it's like, it's great to be a koala

00:32:31   or a T-Rex or whatever, but I wanna be me.

00:32:33   - Yeah.

00:32:34   - 'Cause everyone tries to find an emoji

00:32:36   that they feel sums them up as a person.

00:32:38   Well now I don't need to do that 'cause I could just be me.

00:32:40   Or I could make you and I could be you.

00:32:43   I might make a little Jason.

00:32:44   - Now Steven Hackett though,

00:32:46   he needs to just remain the lion.

00:32:47   - 'Cause he is a lion.

00:32:48   - He is the lion emoji. - He is a lion.

00:32:49   - But there's a tiger now.

00:32:51   - There is a tiger.

00:32:52   I could be the tiger, he could be the lion.

00:32:54   - And I would be a monkey, I think, in that scenario.

00:32:57   There's still a few more things.

00:32:59   - There's still a gigantic mind blowing thing

00:33:02   we haven't talked about about iOS

00:33:03   and a little thing I wanna talk about about photos.

00:33:05   - A little thing that you're excited about

00:33:06   and one which is like I cannot even begin

00:33:08   to fathom the ramifications of something like this.

00:33:10   - I'll walk you through it.

00:33:11   The sinking feeling I had as I realized what I was seeing

00:33:14   and before it got to the big denouement

00:33:17   at the end of that demo, it was amazing.

00:33:19   I was like elbowing Renee in serenity

00:33:21   and I was like, you see what that is, you see what that is.

00:33:24   But we'll get there, we'll get there.

00:33:25   This episode is also brought to you by our friends over at Timing.

00:33:30   We love Timing.

00:33:31   Timing have actually, they're doing a great thing for us right now.

00:33:34   They're sponsoring this show.

00:33:35   They're sponsoring a bunch of our shows over at WWDC.

00:33:38   They're really helping us this week, and we really love them for that.

00:33:41   And with all this new stuff coming up, we've just been talking about it.

00:33:44   How great it is to know how we spend our time using technology

00:33:47   and how we can get more productive using it.

00:33:50   Instead of making you just start and stop timers all the time,

00:33:52   and timing automatically tracks how much time you're spending on each app, document, and

00:33:57   website on your Mac.

00:33:58   And it shows you exactly when you were working on what, when you slacked off, and how productive

00:34:02   you've been, so you know how to improve your productivity.

00:34:05   It's a lot like this new screen time feature on iOS 12, but for the Mac.

00:34:09   And it was, that was one of the things when I saw this, I was like, oh, I remember the

00:34:13   first time I saw timing on the Mac.

00:34:15   And I was like, oh man, I would love something like this on iOS too.

00:34:18   to be able to just go into your devices and see exactly how you're using them is super,

00:34:23   super powerful. And timing is also very beautiful. Make fantastic charts, really great graphs,

00:34:28   breaks everything down so neatly and it does all categorization stuff for you too. It's

00:34:33   really, really awesome. But work doesn't just happen at your Mac and timing know this, so

00:34:37   they automatically make suggestions for filling gaps in your timeline as well. That way you'll

00:34:41   never again forget to enter that meeting that you were on. Timing is so confident that you're

00:34:46   going to love their fuss-free approach. They offer a totally free trial. You can download

00:34:50   the 14-day trial today by going to timingapp.com/upgrade and save 10% when you purchase. That is timingapp.com/upgrade

00:35:00   for a 14-day trial and 10% off when you purchase. Stop guessing how you spend your time and

00:35:05   focus on doing what you're good at. We thank Timing for their support of this show and

00:35:11   Relay FM and our live shows this year.

00:35:13   Really appreciate it with that.

00:35:15   So you got us, I think, a little surprise.

00:35:18   Some photos enhancements.

00:35:20   I don't even think we were expecting anything there, really.

00:35:23   - Well, there's always something with photos.

00:35:25   And this is a really quick thing,

00:35:26   but the best thing that Apple has had in photos

00:35:29   the last few years has been search.

00:35:31   The search stuff is amazing, and they made it better,

00:35:35   including the one that you're gonna think is obvious

00:35:37   because it was obvious, but they just didn't do it yet,

00:35:39   which is searching for multiple items at once.

00:35:42   So basically--

00:35:44   - I didn't know you should do that.

00:35:45   - Show me a photo of cars--

00:35:48   - Horses. - With horses.

00:35:50   - And mountains.

00:35:51   - Yeah, and mountains. - There's a mountain out there.

00:35:52   Where's the horse?

00:35:53   - And you can do that now, so that's great.

00:35:55   And they broadened it out and they added a whole bunch

00:35:57   of more places that they're floating it up.

00:35:59   One of the things that I've said before is

00:36:02   that photos should be more fun.

00:36:04   They need to do a better job of floating

00:36:07   all of this material they've got.

00:36:08   and they've got a new tab that's going to say on this date, there was this photo, a

00:36:12   lot of that stuff.

00:36:14   And sharing, and speaking of messages as a social network, rather than doing, it appears,

00:36:23   the sharing that I wanted, which is some direct library sharing so that my wife and I can

00:36:27   have the same library, they are doing this thing where they're sharing full resolution

00:36:31   photos with other people and doing face recognition to realize, oh, this person's in your photo,

00:36:38   You should share with this group, and then you use messages to share it at full resolution.

00:36:44   And then what happens on the other side is that it scans their library and says, "You

00:36:49   also have photos from this event.

00:36:50   Would you like to throw them in the pot?"

00:36:53   And that's very clever.

00:36:55   And it's all based on messages, again, which is interesting.

00:36:58   That's the hub.

00:37:00   It's the linchpin of their communications.

00:37:02   But that, to me, just shows they know how people use their devices.

00:37:05   I think that's right.

00:37:06   Right?

00:37:07   know that you have a close-front group, you probably have a thread with them.

00:37:10   Yeah. Right? Or like there is a bunch of chains or whatever that link all these

00:37:15   people together. And then they don't have to worry about like, because they control

00:37:18   messages, they don't have to worry about like formats and putting it in places

00:37:21   where you're going in email or like that. It stays in messages and then messages

00:37:27   can be hooked back into photos to say you just got this group photo set. I'm

00:37:31   gonna go back in the background and ask photos do I have photos from the same

00:37:34   event and throw them in the pile. That's something that they couldn't do with some outside service,

00:37:39   at least not easily, and they can do it with their own.

00:37:42   I like that Apple are giving me reasons to spend the time to do the face recognition

00:37:47   stuff in photos. You know, like for me to say, "This is Jason."

00:37:50   Right, because then it's going to...

00:37:52   Now it's worth it. Because previously it was like, "This isn't worth it to me, to actually

00:37:55   say this is this person, this is this person." But that's the kind of stuff that's going

00:37:59   to be helpful.

00:38:00   Alright, so, Siri shortcuts.

00:38:04   Yeah, so Siri shortcuts is mind blowing,

00:38:07   and it seems, I can't believe we're, you know,

00:38:10   saying anything is mind blowing that relates to Siri,

00:38:13   but so the idea here is, it's something we've talked about,

00:38:18   like how do you get apps more integrated with Siri?

00:38:22   And the way they do it is they say,

00:38:24   any app can expose some quick actions to Siri.

00:38:27   Very clearly, there's a little tile

00:38:30   that shows up in your app that says,

00:38:32   you know, you can add this to Siri.

00:38:33   And once you do that, you can assign a phrase and say,

00:38:39   hey, Siri, do this thing in this app.

00:38:41   And it knows what that app can do.

00:38:43   And it does it. - It's very clever.

00:38:44   - And then from there, you can also do suggestions

00:38:49   because Siri Suggestions Engine that already knew things

00:38:52   about how you use your device on a,

00:38:54   at a time or at a place.

00:38:56   - It showed one like you order a coffee

00:38:57   in the Philz app every morning.

00:38:59   Well, it just starts popping up and saying,

00:39:01   do you want to make that order?

00:39:02   And it's from a notification, you just say, yeah.

00:39:03   - Right, so it used to be all kind of Apple-based stuff.

00:39:07   And now what it's saying is, if an app developer,

00:39:09   and you have to read between the lines here,

00:39:11   but if an app developer has a defined function in their app

00:39:16   and say, this is the ordering part,

00:39:18   there's now a methodology to connect

00:39:22   where Siri knows that that app can do that.

00:39:24   You can give it a name and Siri will kick it off

00:39:27   and not even open the app in the foreground

00:39:29   and we'll do that.

00:39:30   And that it will then be part of Siri suggestions.

00:39:34   This is the moment where I thought to myself,

00:39:36   wait a second, once you're having apps identify,

00:39:41   here's a function and here's how you can access it

00:39:44   from outside, it's basically automation,

00:39:49   it's basically scriptability or for iOS purposes,

00:39:54   it's workflow.

00:39:55   because the whole way that things like Workflow work

00:39:58   is it's an app saying, "Here are the things I can do."

00:40:02   And then somebody else can say, "Do that thing,"

00:40:05   or, "Here's some information, process this thing."

00:40:08   And knowing what we know,

00:40:10   which is that the Workflow app team was bought

00:40:14   by not just Apple, but by the Siri group at Apple,

00:40:18   not widely known, but we mentioned it at least once or twice,

00:40:21   this was that sinking feeling where I'm like,

00:40:25   "Oh," I started elbowing like Renee next to me.

00:40:28   And I said, "This is what the workflow people

00:40:30   "have been working on."

00:40:30   Because this is very clearly, subtly,

00:40:34   the underlying technology that they used

00:40:36   being applied to individual actions kicked off by Siri.

00:40:40   How clever, what a great idea.

00:40:42   And then they said, "Oh, also we have an app

00:40:44   "called Shortcuts and it's totally workflow."

00:40:47   Yeah.

00:40:49   Which you can just build, look at this,

00:40:50   you can build a thing and it will do all these things

00:40:53   for you and then you trigger it with Siri.

00:40:54   and I'm like, okay, not subtle anymore, that's workflow.

00:40:58   - This workflow's probably going away now,

00:41:01   I'm gonna assume.

00:41:02   - The real question is, how functional is

00:41:06   shortcuts versus workflow?

00:41:07   It shortcuts everything that workflow is.

00:41:09   - Am I still gonna get my web API stuff?

00:41:11   Or is that gonna go away?

00:41:12   - Or is it really dumbed down?

00:41:13   - But then, I'm thinking, okay, so let's say I lose

00:41:16   my web API stuff, which would suck, right,

00:41:19   if that was to go, but, if this becomes a thing

00:41:23   that's part of Siri, but part of the OS,

00:41:26   I will probably end up getting more utility out of it

00:41:29   in the long run because more applications

00:41:31   will be able to talk to this system

00:41:34   and I will be able to chain stuff together.

00:41:35   - When you're using a web API for like--

00:41:38   - Toggle for time tracking.

00:41:39   - Right, so what'll happen is toggle--

00:41:41   - Toggle can just integrate with shortcuts.

00:41:43   - We'll just build it in our app.

00:41:45   - So this is my hope that we may lose some stuff,

00:41:48   but this system is the system we always wanted.

00:41:53   Yeah, my fear is that it will be really limited

00:41:56   and workflow will also die.

00:41:58   And we'll end up with this kind of like light version.

00:42:02   I hope that doesn't happen.

00:42:04   I hope it's more full feature than that.

00:42:05   It is really excited though, that on stage at WWDC,

00:42:10   they demoed a user feature that is essentially automator,

00:42:15   right, 'cause that's what workflow is for iOS,

00:42:18   where a bunch of unrelated steps

00:42:21   are being applied together, assigned to a Siri shortcut.

00:42:25   - Like a morning thing, right?

00:42:26   - Yeah.

00:42:27   - Like playing a different radio station,

00:42:28   ordering the coffee, like that is amazing, right?

00:42:31   Because these are things like that stuff,

00:42:33   I can't do that stuff with workflow right now.

00:42:36   So it's like, I might lose some stuff, but I want all that.

00:42:41   - Well, and it motivates more apps,

00:42:43   including really mainstream apps.

00:42:45   That I think is maybe the biggest difference is,

00:42:48   Is Starbucks ever going to make an effort

00:42:51   to build something in to support workflow?

00:42:54   Maybe they do, but maybe,

00:42:58   'cause I don't know the background,

00:42:59   but my guess is no, and if they did, then somebody else,

00:43:02   like is a big mainstream app

00:43:04   that is not a nerdy iOS productivity app

00:43:07   going to go to the trouble

00:43:08   of like building in workflow support?

00:43:10   No, but you look at the Siri thing and you're like,

00:43:13   oh yeah, we gotta do that,

00:43:14   'cause we gotta be able to say,

00:43:16   just tell Siri to order Starbucks and it automatically orders your drink and then

00:43:21   you go pick it up like that that's so cool and that's the power of the

00:43:25   platform owner putting it on every single iPhone. I'm just gonna say right

00:43:29   so I've been talking a lot about this over the last week right why one of my

00:43:33   biggest dreams of WWDC this year one of my biggest hopes is that we would see

00:43:37   why why did Apple do this yeah and what they shown on stage would have been a

00:43:42   great draft pick. An explanation for why Apple bot works well.

00:43:46   I kind of got it in there. You just sneak it in there, it turns out.

00:43:49   But I didn't want to be so specific like that in the draft, right? So that was just like,

00:43:54   give me automation. Automation for 10. But this reason is, for me, the best possible

00:44:04   reason for them to buy that company. Yes, this is the best case scenario in that

00:44:09   integration with the entire operating system and every app within it. Because the thing

00:44:16   is like app developers will want to tie into the Siri shortcuts thing where you can say

00:44:20   ask Siri to do this and then just as a user we also then get the shortcuts app when we

00:44:27   can then chain all this stuff together.

00:44:29   What I like about it, so when I heard, there's sirens going on in the background.

00:44:33   I was so excited.

00:44:35   That's right, that's the workflow, Siren.

00:44:38   They did it, everybody, they did it.

00:44:39   When I found out, somebody,

00:44:44   and I don't even remember when it happened,

00:44:45   but somebody came up to me and said,

00:44:46   "You know who bought Workflow, right?"

00:44:48   This was like two years ago.

00:44:49   "It was Siri."

00:44:52   I was like, "What?"

00:44:53   Like, I assumed it would be the core OS group,

00:44:55   and it wasn't, it was Siri.

00:44:56   I'm like, "That's really weird."

00:44:58   But over the intervening time, what I thought is,

00:45:01   "Well, you know what?

00:45:02   "Best case scenario is, what's the modern way

00:45:05   on a modern operating system, especially on a handheld device, that you would do, you know,

00:45:11   run scripts, run workflows, do keyboard shortcut combinations. The answer is Siri, right? The

00:45:18   answer is you build your shortcut and then you just tell it to execute it. And that's what they

00:45:25   built, which is pretty great. I'm excited. And you can trigger them from the HomePod. That was your

00:45:29   you mentioned and that's awesome.

00:45:31   - Right. - Right.

00:45:32   - I'm really excited.

00:45:34   I cannot, like--

00:45:35   - There's gonna be the letdown, right?

00:45:36   There's gonna be a letdown where we realize,

00:45:37   oh, but it doesn't do this. - And I'm prepared for it.

00:45:39   I'm prepared for it.

00:45:40   And the thing is, here's the thing.

00:45:42   - Okay. - The workflow app

00:45:43   is a third-party app.

00:45:44   They can't delete it from my phone.

00:45:47   I can hang on to it for a while

00:45:49   and then hope that they put in the features that I want

00:45:52   and/or wait for all of the third-party developers

00:45:55   to receive pressure.

00:45:56   So like, you know, I'm gonna be emailing Toggle

00:45:59   and saying, I really hope as a user, please look at this,

00:46:03   please, please integrate this.

00:46:05   This is so powerful for your system.

00:46:07   And I'm sure that the toggle developers have seen that today

00:46:09   and they're like, yes, like that is perfect

00:46:11   because I've always wanted to be able to,

00:46:14   with my voice, start at a toggle timer

00:46:19   and haven't had a way to do it.

00:46:20   - Also, and this just occurs to me now,

00:46:22   the way Workflow worked,

00:46:25   you needed an app to support Workflow

00:46:28   and do an app update, and then workflow needed to be updated to add that app to the directory.

00:46:33   Whereas this, Siri shortcuts, presumably, and we'll go to the conference and the developers

00:46:39   will learn this, there's presumably a Siri shortcuts API session, but there's an API,

00:46:43   right? Which means if you add it to your app, I think it just shows up as an option.

00:46:49   That would be my assumption.

00:46:50   Right? So it's system-wide.

00:46:52   There's some call that you make to the system and then it just shows up, because I would expect that

00:46:56   you see all of the stuff, what I wanna see is you see all the stuff you have, and then there's,

00:47:00   they have the, it looks just like workflow. The home screen looks like workflow, the workflow

00:47:05   list looks like workflow. I'm really excited about this. I am so, so happy to see that this is the

00:47:14   result. Yeah. Like that I'm really, really excited. But should we talk about the Mac?

00:47:19   We should. There's so much that we're not gonna cover all today. We're just gonna try and hit

00:47:23   a lot of big things. I want to talk about the Mac App Store.

00:47:27   Yeah. So we have Mojave, right, and you've got your Dark Mode.

00:47:31   Dark Mode's really cool. All that stuff. Yes, Mojave. Mojave.

00:47:36   Mojave. Which, of course, now we're going to have to spend,

00:47:39   as we did with Yosemite, a year where people...

00:47:44   Mojave. Call it Mojave.

00:47:45   Mojave. But it's Mojave.

00:47:48   And there is some stuff there. There's little features or whatever, right? There's little

00:47:53   features right here's something you find a start. Yeah dark mode is good that was however many years

00:47:58   ago four years ago when they did the dark menu bar. I think that there's refinement needed.

00:48:04   Oh and they just looked inverted is what it looked to me. They did another thing which is a

00:48:10   Sherlocking which is for years now people have been making these motion backdrop things where

00:48:17   over time like it's based on nature photos for the whole day and it changes your background and

00:48:22   and that's built in, which I think is intriguing because that means that presumably somebody

00:48:26   will figure out where that's coming from and will be able to build new ones so maybe other

00:48:31   people will build in cool rotating things around there.

00:48:35   But yeah, the dark mode I think is good because it means that app developers...

00:48:39   Well, not every app.

00:48:41   Many writing apps that I use have themes, but you have to turn them all on and off on

00:48:47   their own.

00:48:48   the nice thing about this dark mode is that you could say,

00:48:51   when I'm in dark mode,

00:48:53   I want white text in a black background.

00:48:55   And when I'm in not dark mode,

00:48:57   I want black text in a white background.

00:48:59   And that's, and then I just flip a switch

00:49:01   or do a keyboard shortcut and it just changes.

00:49:03   It's like, yes, thank you.

00:49:04   That's, that is exactly what I want.

00:49:06   So nothing, nothing earth shattering there,

00:49:09   but you know, a bunch of little stuff

00:49:12   that I think is encouraging.

00:49:13   A bunch of finder before we get to the,

00:49:17   the App Store. A bunch of Finder changes. And by the way, when I was at Macworld, we

00:49:23   always had this debate about whether it would be referred to as "the Finder" or as just

00:49:27   "Finder." And I like that they put up a slide that said "Finder," and then Craig said, "Let's

00:49:33   talk about the Finder."

00:49:36   No answer.

00:49:37   Because that is how... Well, no, that's the answer. The name of it is "Finder," but it

00:49:41   is always "the Finder."

00:49:42   Because it's not like iPad and "the iPad."

00:49:44   No, no, no, no.

00:49:45   They just call it "iPad" and "iPad."

00:49:46   - It's the finder, it's the finder, 'cause it finds things.

00:49:49   So in there, they did a whole bunch of,

00:49:51   they did a new view, and they did a whole bunch

00:49:53   of quick look improvements, and this is where Automator

00:49:55   came in to mention, which was kind of fascinating,

00:49:58   that one of the things you can do is,

00:50:01   it's basically, I think, services,

00:50:03   which has been there forever, and it's another

00:50:06   expansion of where that is, where you can,

00:50:11   and I use those all the time, actually,

00:50:14   where you can set off an automated action

00:50:18   on something that's in the Finder.

00:50:19   And they've kind of like extended that to their,

00:50:23   you know, rotating photos from within Quick Look

00:50:26   and things like that, which are natural,

00:50:28   or dragging things out.

00:50:30   The desktop changes with desktop stacks

00:50:36   is an example of a designer realizing

00:50:41   that the way that they intend people to use their computer

00:50:44   not how they use their computer. And that is a very adult way of approaching a problem,

00:50:51   which is, you know what? Okay. The users aren't going to do it the way I think they should.

00:50:57   So let me give them a good looking way. How do I make it better with the fact that everybody's

00:51:02   going to throw their crap on their desktop? And so they tried to do that. And as a veteran

00:51:07   desktop crap thrower, I am interested to see whether that is a feature I like or hate.

00:51:14   - Mac App Store.

00:51:14   - Mac App Store.

00:51:15   - So it got the stuff that we, I guess, would have expected.

00:51:19   It got a redesign, it's gonna have stories,

00:51:21   it's gonna have categories.

00:51:22   - Yeah, they're gonna have some content on it

00:51:23   like they do on the iOS App Store.

00:51:24   - There's three tabs, Work, Play, and Develop,

00:51:27   which I thought were kind of cool.

00:51:28   So they're like three little category tabs

00:51:30   that are in the sidebar.

00:51:31   - Yeah, and acknowledging that a big part

00:51:32   of their professional audience on the Mac

00:51:34   is the developer audience,

00:51:35   which I think is really interesting.

00:51:36   - Which is important, which is very important

00:51:37   to acknowledge that.

00:51:40   But then they started talking about some developers that were returning or debuting on the App

00:51:49   Store.

00:51:50   Office 365, Adobe Lightroom, Transmit from Panic, and BB Edit from Bearbones.

00:51:57   Now, you put that up on the slides and it's great and amazing that they were mentioned,

00:52:02   but the notable thing is BB Edit and Transmit left.

00:52:08   That's right, the subtext there for why they mentioned those apps is that they both were

00:52:13   high profile abandonments of the Mac App Store.

00:52:16   As we are recording this, the State of the Union is starting pretty soon, right?

00:52:20   If not already?

00:52:21   No, it's in like, yeah, about 45 minutes from now they're going to start the State of the

00:52:25   Union.

00:52:26   I can only assume that during the State of the Union, they're going to give some kind

00:52:30   of explanation as to how those apps can return.

00:52:32   Because those apps left, I believe both of them because of sandboxing rules.

00:52:36   I think so.

00:52:37   And so how can these apps come back?

00:52:41   So the big question, and this was my question going in, is if Apple wants to redo the Mac

00:52:47   App Store, putting new App Store editorial content is not enough.

00:52:52   No, because there's not enough apps to write about.

00:52:54   That's right, because of the restrictions.

00:52:56   And what's funny is that in all of Phil Schiller's time being back in charge of the stores, the

00:53:01   Mac App Store hasn't changed very much.

00:53:04   So the message seems to be with Transmit and BBEdit going back to the Mac App Store that

00:53:11   Apple is changing somehow the terms of getting your app on the Mac App Store.

00:53:19   I'm unclear on what that means.

00:53:21   It is smart of them because that has been the problem with the Mac App Store.

00:53:27   There are lots of apps that are very useful and they have to create a broken version to

00:53:31   to get it inside sandboxing.

00:53:33   Because of the way that the security model worked,

00:53:36   it just didn't work right with a lot of what they do.

00:53:38   And of course, Apple's own apps often would never be allowed

00:53:41   in the Mac App Store if Apple didn't build them.

00:53:42   - We also don't know the details for these.

00:53:45   We don't know what these apps are gonna look like

00:53:47   in the Mac App Store. - We literally know nothing

00:53:49   about this other than the fact that this is suspicious

00:53:53   to me that they have made changes to the rules.

00:53:56   Now, one thing that they did mention

00:53:58   is that they've changed a lot of the secure,

00:54:00   default security and privacy settings, where like on iOS, you're going to have to ask permission

00:54:06   before you get access to very specific kinds of information, including the camera and the

00:54:10   microphone and a bunch of other stuff. And I had somebody suggest to me that maybe part

00:54:17   of that is that now that there are kind of these broad rules and there's the ability

00:54:21   to ask permission, that maybe that opens things up for more Mac apps because now they have

00:54:27   the ability to ask permission and maybe that works better. By the way, extending the microphone

00:54:34   protections means that every single app that podcasters use is going to have to have a

00:54:39   "I'm going to use your microphone, is that okay?" on it the first time you launch it.

00:54:44   So be it.

00:54:45   Let's hope that all the apps that we use that are old...

00:54:47   Actually get updated to support that. That would be nice. So whether it's that or whether

00:54:53   it's something else, or whether, I have to be fair, whether it's non-technical, whether

00:54:58   it's a change in the terms, a change in the revenue percentage, something that got Transmit

00:55:06   and barebones.

00:55:07   And Microsoft and Adobe.

00:55:09   Right, Microsoft and Adobe, I can see, it's a little bit different of a thing, but like

00:55:13   the two high-profile, long-time Mac apps that went off the store, like obviously Rich Siegel

00:55:22   and Cable Sasser are probably already explaining themselves outside right now.

00:55:28   These conversations are occurring because they're being mobbed.

00:55:30   So we'll talk about it next week.

00:55:31   But I'm intrigued by that because that suggests to me that Apple realizes, and they're not

00:55:36   dumb, Apple realizes that you can put really nice content promoting the apps that are in

00:55:41   the App Store up five days a week on the Mac App Store like you do on iOS.

00:55:46   And it doesn't matter if there are no apps in the store because it's a two-tiered problem.

00:55:51   like yes you're not promoting them maybe as well as you could but your rules preclude

00:55:57   great apps from being in the store that exist on the platform.

00:56:03   I'm really intrigued to see how this ends up going in the long run. Like is this gonna

00:56:10   bring Sketch back to the Mac App Store? Like what is this gonna be? Because I think Apple

00:56:16   have done this now, they put these, you know, really all they needed to do for the majority

00:56:22   of people there was to show Office and Adobe, right? Like they have taken great steps to

00:56:26   show to indie Mac developers who make very specific applications, right, that like nobody

00:56:32   I don't think that is watching this is sitting there going like, well, I'm just not going

00:56:35   to get transmitted because it's not in the App Store. Like I'm just not going to get

00:56:38   it. Like I need it, but I'm not going to get it. Like that isn't a situation that's occurring.

00:56:42   They're making a statement and I wonder what this what this statement means, how it's going

00:56:46   to play out. If they make these changes, let's assume, because what we can do right now is

00:56:51   assume that let's say that it's a mix of both technical and some kind of businessy change,

00:56:55   which has meant that these developers will want to come back or join in the first place.

00:56:59   Does that make Apple look strong? Or does that make Apple look not strong? Because they

00:57:04   made a decision about the way the Mac App Store was going to be. And that decision was

00:57:10   based upon what they felt was the right thing to do. And they've now changed, potentially

00:57:16   changed that decision. And what does that look like?

00:57:21   I think it makes Apple... I don't think it makes Apple look strong or not strong. Because

00:57:28   the end result is positive for Apple. The end result is that they get those things on

00:57:34   the platform. Yeah, that's right. That's really what it is about, is making the platform stronger

00:57:40   The reality is that the last announcement of the day is the thing

00:57:47   that's going to make the Mac App Store more viable.

00:57:50   Yes. Do you want to talk about anything else with the Mac App Store before we

00:57:56   get into the sneak peek?

00:57:57   No. Alright, so let me take our final break and we'll talk about the sneak peek.

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00:59:16   I saw there was some Wi-Fi connection problems today.

00:59:19   The developer event, the developers get on the Wi-Fi and destroy it immediately, so it's

00:59:23   -- yeah, you just have to -- thank goodness for my cellular devices in those cases.

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01:00:15   and Relay FM. Before we go on, I want to mention my favorite Easter egg of the entire keynote,

01:00:24   which is that one of the labels in the finder on the Mojave demo was titled "It's Road Trip"

01:00:30   which, okay, at the iPad Air 2 keynote in in October of 2014, they did a demo of an app that

01:00:41   like built a whole fancy video for you and they there was a typo on stage. Oh, I remember that!

01:00:47   Which was instead of "Utah Road Trip" it was "It's Road Trip" which is this weird like "It's

01:00:52   "It's Road Trip, everybody!"

01:00:54   - Because what's amazing is, if you watch that video now,

01:00:57   - Oh yeah, they fixed it. - It changed it.

01:00:59   - They changed it like they used video from a rehearsal

01:01:01   or they obscured it and they replaced it

01:01:05   with the right thing.

01:01:06   Anyway, but "It's Road Trip" was like,

01:01:08   it was a little joke we made four years ago

01:01:10   about like, "Oh, it's road trip."

01:01:12   They, you know, it just, "Everybody, it's road trip!"

01:01:15   Well, today, in the Finder, - It was road trip.

01:01:18   - That one of the tags was literally, "It's road trip."

01:01:21   - That's very good.

01:01:22   Did anyone notice it in me? I don't know, but it made me giggle in the seats.

01:01:26   That's excellent. I really like that.

01:01:28   It's road trip. It's, oh, I remember. Good times. Good times.

01:01:32   At the end of the Mac OS demo, Craig takes the stage and he's like,

01:01:37   "People ask me the question all the time, 'Are we merging iOS and Mac OS?'

01:01:40   and he says, 'No.'"

01:01:42   Of course not.

01:01:43   Why would we do that? That's crazy.

01:01:45   We love the Mac.

01:01:46   We love the Mac. They loved the Mac a lot today. Everybody loves the Mac.

01:01:49   Tim loved a Mac. Everyone was loving the Mac.

01:01:52   But what they did announce was a sneak peak.

01:01:56   A sneak peak of bringing UIKit to the Mac.

01:02:00   - Yeah, and this is another example of kind of

01:02:04   agenda setting where at the beginning--

01:02:06   - Multi-year project.

01:02:07   - Yeah, at the beginning they said,

01:02:10   "It's all about software."

01:02:11   And at the end, very impressively, they said,

01:02:13   "Okay, let's talk about iOS and macOS."

01:02:16   - That's some real talk.

01:02:18   - Craig turned the chair around,

01:02:21   sat on it backward, you know, put on his hat.

01:02:23   Tied it backwards. Everything went backwards.

01:02:26   Everything's turned backward. He's like, let's, let's do some straight talk. Um,

01:02:30   they, here's the thing they knew. This is,

01:02:34   this is the impact of people like, um,

01:02:36   Steve Trouton Smith and Guillermo Rambo who take apart all the pieces of

01:02:42   software that Apple releases to get evidence of what the heck Apple is doing.

01:02:47   Like they knew that when they shipped the beta

01:02:50   and people saw stocks, news, voice recorder,

01:02:54   and the home app,

01:02:56   that Apple was building them using new technology

01:03:01   that was allowing them to bring their iOS apps to the Mac.

01:03:04   And Apple also is at the point where

01:03:08   they know that everybody's talking about this

01:03:10   and there have been rumors about this for months,

01:03:12   but they don't have anything for developers right now.

01:03:16   So what do you do?

01:03:18   And I would argue the old Apple would just pretend

01:03:20   it wasn't happening and never admit to it.

01:03:23   But instead they said, here's what's going on.

01:03:27   It's commitment to the Mac, we think the Mac is great.

01:03:29   And he gave some specifics which I liked.

01:03:32   The specifics of Mac hardware, he said,

01:03:35   are why the Mac exists.

01:03:37   Ergonomic input devices, or the ergonomics around

01:03:41   the machines and the input devices,

01:03:43   the flexibility of the displays.

01:03:46   They're like, "I'm gonna go back and write down

01:03:49   "exactly what he said because--"

01:03:50   - Yeah, I think I kinda missed some of this.

01:03:52   - "Because that's the most information we've gotten

01:03:54   "of what makes the Mac the Mac."

01:03:58   I think that was interesting.

01:04:00   But that all said, we do wanna bring iOS

01:04:05   and the app ecosystem from iOS to the Mac.

01:04:08   And so they're gonna take key frameworks from UIKit

01:04:14   and put it on the Mac, especially involving,

01:04:17   and again, there was a whole list,

01:04:18   trackpad and mouse input, window resizing,

01:04:20   scroll bars, copy and paste,

01:04:22   and then they said, "We're dogfooding it."

01:04:24   Phase one is we are going to use it ourselves

01:04:27   for apps that are gonna ship with Mojave, use it.

01:04:31   It turns out it's great.

01:04:34   Turns out it didn't work.

01:04:36   Sorry, everybody, back to the drawing board.

01:04:38   It's not something he was ever gonna say,

01:04:40   but he said, "It was great.

01:04:41   "We were able to do it.

01:04:42   You guys will get to do this next year.

01:04:44   But in the meantime, enjoy these apps

01:04:46   that we took from iOS and put on the Mac.

01:04:48   - Like, I have a couple of specifics

01:04:50   about what this stuff will do.

01:04:53   You know, he said like, taking your iPad apps

01:04:55   and making them work with some key conventions of the Mac.

01:04:59   So resizing, to have them be able, you know,

01:05:01   to have the window controls, pointing devices.

01:05:05   Like, these are the things that they will,

01:05:08   what this is enabling.

01:05:09   So that's kind of how it's gonna be.

01:05:11   stuff that doesn't exist on iOS that needs to exist or doesn't exist like it

01:05:14   exists on the Mac. So here's my thing multi-year project is that just one way?

01:05:20   I don't know. Right because that's my feeling is like well let's go both ways.

01:05:27   Once you've got iOS apps that are capable of doing windowing could you

01:05:30   have on large screen iOS devices could you have windowing or a trackpad? Sure.

01:05:35   Right so I think that this was really smart because if they wouldn't have done

01:05:39   this today, we would have spent a significant amount of time on this show

01:05:42   talking about the fact that there was no discussion of this. And more to the point,

01:05:48   hours over the next year talking about whether Apple was doing this. So we go

01:05:54   from all they did is spent 10 minutes doing something that's not really going to

01:05:57   affect anything. The most it's going to affect is people might not redesign their

01:06:00   Mac apps. That is gonna be a-okay. Like everyone's gonna be fine with that, right?

01:06:06   because what happens now is we spend the next year

01:06:10   talking positively about what 2019 is gonna bring.

01:06:15   Imagining all of the possibilities of iOS apps on the Mac.

01:06:19   What are they gonna look like?

01:06:20   iOS developers get to look at their applications now

01:06:23   and be like, hmm, let me think,

01:06:25   how would I want this to look?

01:06:27   And spend time thinking positively about this

01:06:31   rather than for the, like in three weeks time,

01:06:34   we come back to this conversation of,

01:06:36   why didn't they do that?

01:06:38   - Yeah, and I think it shows you one of the things

01:06:43   that Apple kind of abdicated when it went super secret

01:06:49   about literally everything.

01:06:52   Apple's still got a lot of secrecy, right?

01:06:53   But there's smart secrecy,

01:06:55   and then there's like dumb secrecy.

01:06:57   Apple gets to set the agenda for discussions

01:07:01   of its platforms and what developers are planning

01:07:05   and talking about, you can set the agenda.

01:07:07   And one of the ways you set the agenda is say,

01:07:09   this is where we're going.

01:07:11   And if you're so committed to secrecy

01:07:12   that you can't say where you're going,

01:07:14   you can't set the agenda.

01:07:16   And by doing this, they did.

01:07:17   They said, here's where we're going, 2019,

01:07:19   you're gonna get it, you're not gonna get it before then,

01:07:21   and 2019 developers will get access to this.

01:07:24   It also opens the door, by the way,

01:07:26   for Apple to roll some version of this out

01:07:28   before WWDC next year, even, and say,

01:07:30   here's some tools for developers to start working on this in a late version of Mojave

01:07:35   or something like that. Or most likely it's next year's macOS release, but not necessarily.

01:07:41   And now everybody knows it, everybody is aware of it, and we can all move on. And Apple has

01:07:47   set what the conversation is going to be about by disclosing that. So, you know, good. Right

01:07:52   move. The right move, I think.

01:07:53   MATT: I'm really excited about it. I'm really pleased that they've done it.

01:07:55   Well, it is, as we've said in all our discussions about all of these related topics, it's a

01:08:00   big deal because Apple has this incredibly engaged world of iOS developers and they all

01:08:07   use Macs to develop their software, yet they can't really make Mac software, not easily,

01:08:13   because it's so foreign.

01:08:15   It's a completely different UI kit, app kit, like they're very different.

01:08:21   You can, and some people are more comfortable with it than others, but this is sort of saying,

01:08:27   you've already got an iOS app, it's great.

01:08:29   How can we let you take that to the Mac without it being too much work?

01:08:33   This is going to be so good.

01:08:34   And it will lead, I think, when you talk about the blowback on iOS, I have a hard time believing

01:08:39   that it'll be up to Apple to decide if they're going to let you have Windows and pointing

01:08:45   devices on large screen iOS devices.

01:08:47   But like keyboard shortcuts is a good example where it will probably lead to iOS devices

01:08:53   having way better keyboard shortcuts or iOS apps having way better keyboard shortcuts.

01:08:56   There are some really cool practicalities that are going to come out of this that will

01:09:00   help the iPad.

01:09:01   And I have, I 100% believe that Apple are incredibly aware of this and part of this

01:09:07   process is to push the iPad forward as much as they're pushing the Mac forward.

01:09:11   I genuinely believe this because most of the apps will be iPad size.

01:09:17   Yes, that is something that came up a few times where they talked about, well, we, in

01:09:22   fact, Myke, we have proof of this, which is those apps that they talked about, a bunch

01:09:27   of them were like stocks first time on the iPad, voice recorder first time on the iPad.

01:09:34   Why is that?

01:09:35   Well, because they rewrote them and made those changes to make them work on the Mac and they're

01:09:40   are also on the iPad now. Apple themselves believe that an application

01:09:44   that they put on the Mac can be as powerful as the application they put on

01:09:48   the iPad. Right? That is I think... Bold statement. And I hope that I

01:09:54   genuinely see this as being one of the first real things that stops this war

01:10:03   between the iPad and the Mac and like the iPads gonna kill the Mac you know

01:10:08   all that kind of stuff, because now they can move together.

01:10:11   - They can move together, and then it's a matter

01:10:12   of what you want to use.

01:10:13   You want to use this device that has this hardware,

01:10:15   this device that has this hardware,

01:10:17   but they're all gonna be capable.

01:10:19   I would also say that once iOS apps are being brought

01:10:24   to the Mac with support for pointing devices

01:10:26   and things like that, they also have support for touch.

01:10:29   - They most certainly do.

01:10:31   - They also have support for touch.

01:10:32   - I keep going off on little roads like this,

01:10:35   and like, well then, doesn't it make an arm transition

01:10:38   a little bit easier in the future?

01:10:39   - Yes, and yep, exactly right.

01:10:42   - All of this multi-year, this is the next five to 10 years

01:10:47   and it's starting now with news, stocks, home,

01:10:52   and voice memos.

01:10:54   - Voice memos, yeah.

01:10:56   - Should we talk about watchOS?

01:10:57   - Sure.

01:10:58   - I wanna say super quick, if I'm a little hoarse today,

01:11:01   it's because of-- - Re-whooping.

01:11:03   - It was the watchOS segment.

01:11:04   So I can't get into this too much right now

01:11:07   because I'm a little bit too emotional about it.

01:11:09   - Oh yeah, yeah, you see now you're,

01:11:11   it's just 'cause you love the Apple Watch so much

01:11:13   and you were so excited by the features that they announced.

01:11:16   - So podcasts were debuted for the Apple Watch today

01:11:19   and they used connected as the,

01:11:22   as the on stage, all promo on stage was connected.

01:11:27   They had like little Siri text

01:11:28   to play the connected podcast.

01:11:30   I was screaming and then kinda crying.

01:11:33   I had a real moment today, it was incredible,

01:11:38   and I'm very excited to share with Steven and Federico

01:11:43   that moment on Wednesday.

01:11:45   So yeah, that was, I achieved today a life goal

01:11:49   that I've had that I never thought would have been possible.

01:11:52   - Which is that you got in the keynote.

01:11:54   - To be forever immortalized in that,

01:11:58   like I can't believe it, and I'm absolutely blown away.

01:12:01   I had no idea this was gonna happen.

01:12:04   It was an incredible feeling.

01:12:06   But that's all I'm gonna say on it for now.

01:12:08   Let's talk about it.

01:12:09   So it was broken down into kind of two prongs,

01:12:10   health and fitness and being connected.

01:12:13   It's kind of funny.

01:12:14   I thought that was pretty funny.

01:12:16   Health and fitness stuff looks really cool.

01:12:18   So adding challenges in I think is really smart.

01:12:20   So me and you could set a seven day challenge.

01:12:24   - Right, who can do the least?

01:12:25   - Who can?

01:12:25   (laughing)

01:12:27   I think that that's what they're going for,

01:12:29   but yes, it's probably what would happen.

01:12:31   - Okay, low score, who got the low score?

01:12:33   Myke, I need to go get to the refrigerator,

01:12:36   but I can't, 'cause it would give me a move.

01:12:38   - I'm gonna take my watch off.

01:12:39   - Yeah, yeah, that's why we're gonna leave it here,

01:12:41   'cause I don't want a move ring.

01:12:42   - On the last episode in our "Bring Out A Dead,"

01:12:45   I said yoga tracking.

01:12:46   We had a bunch of people send us tweets

01:12:48   and say, "Oh, they already do yoga tracking."

01:12:49   - And then, you know, Serenity Caldwell said,

01:12:52   "Ah, but it doesn't do it right, it's a generic."

01:12:56   - All it's doing is saying, "I started a workout,

01:12:58   "I ended a workout."

01:12:59   not actually tracking yoga in the same way that like Craig Hockenberry was swimming with

01:13:05   like a series two.

01:13:06   Yeah, but it wasn't, it wasn't measuring his swimming.

01:13:08   Starting a workout and going on a workout.

01:13:10   So now there's a real yoga workout type and a real, I wasn't expecting this, hiking workout

01:13:15   type, which is a thing that I do all the time because I live next to a mountain and I will

01:13:20   take our dog and we will hike up the side of the mountain.

01:13:25   And I do that as a walk, which always seems really dumb, because it's like, "Hey, you're

01:13:31   walking, why is your heart rate at 160?"

01:13:34   Because I'm walking up the side of a mountain.

01:13:36   It's like, "Oh, you're walking slowly."

01:13:37   Yeah, you're very slow now.

01:13:39   Why is your heart rate so much?

01:13:40   So there's a hiking workout type that was pretty cool too.

01:13:45   And they're tuning the running stuff.

01:13:47   And automatic workout detection, starting and stopping.

01:13:51   Automatic workout detection.

01:13:53   And an alert when, this happens to me all the time, when I get home and the last thing

01:13:58   I am going to remember to do is swipe and tap and turn off my workout. And then I'm

01:14:02   wandering around the house with my, you know, the Apple Watch draining its battery because

01:14:06   it's got the heart rate monitor on all the time. And I'm like, no, it's going to, it'll

01:14:10   tap you and be like, looks like you're done.

01:14:12   Yeah, I like that.

01:14:13   Very excited.

01:14:14   And then they had, like, the other side of it was the being connected part. And they

01:14:17   added, they said, oh, you know, there's all these great ways to talk and we've added a

01:14:20   I was like, "Oh no, not again."

01:14:22   Like I'm taken back to digital touch.

01:14:25   - Right, yeah, that's right.

01:14:26   - But they added one that I think makes a lot of sense,

01:14:29   a walkie talkie mode.

01:14:31   How fun.

01:14:31   - Was this not, I think this was something that was--

01:14:36   - So it must have been off.

01:14:37   - I think this was rumored that this was ready to go

01:14:39   like a couple years ago and then they just never--

01:14:43   - It may have been like a hardware thing,

01:14:45   like the quality of the microphones

01:14:46   and the speakers and stuff.

01:14:47   and is it useful without cellular as much?

01:14:51   You know, like all these things.

01:14:52   I think that's really cool.

01:14:53   Like, so again, me and you, I would say,

01:14:55   do you want to be a walkie talkie buddy?

01:14:56   And you'd say, yeah, and then I could send you messages.

01:14:58   You could send it back to me.

01:14:59   I think that's cute.

01:15:00   I think it's nice.

01:15:01   - It'll work for some people and not work for others.

01:15:03   And you can just, if you don't like that kind of thing,

01:15:05   you can just turn it off.

01:15:06   - I think it's a fun little feature

01:15:07   and it makes a lot of sense.

01:15:09   Siri Watch Face got all of the improvements I wanted.

01:15:11   - Yep, third party apps.

01:15:13   - It got more stuff of their own.

01:15:14   - Yeah.

01:15:15   - Support for Siri shortcuts.

01:15:16   You can launch a Siri shortcut

01:15:17   from the Siri watch face because it would recommend what it thinks you need at that time.

01:15:21   Well of course they could because there's workflow for watchOS.

01:15:24   So why not?

01:15:24   And then the third-party app support which is fantastic.

01:15:27   Right and seems very much like again built on this idea of apps providing,

01:15:34   "here's a thing I can do, here's a thing I know."

01:15:37   So they showed this and they showed more interactive notifications,

01:15:43   you can do more notifications.

01:15:45   And I thought to myself, "Oh, that's the OS now."

01:15:49   Going into the future, my belief is that the Siri watch face

01:15:53   and more interactive notifications

01:15:55   is kind of what watchOS is gonna be.

01:15:58   And that like straight up apps will be much less so.

01:16:01   - That could be much less important anyway.

01:16:04   - Much, much less important.

01:16:05   - Because you can get access to the pieces that you need.

01:16:07   - Because it should be showing you what you need at that time.

01:16:10   You know, Siri's gonna be becoming more and more functional

01:16:14   and it's kind of this is just pushing towards new UI.

01:16:19   They're really, I've got to hand it to Apple.

01:16:22   Every year they are like tearing huge parts of watchOS down

01:16:26   and starting again with them.

01:16:28   Like they are not like ashamed

01:16:31   or like trying to hide with this.

01:16:34   They keep trying new things to find the things that work.

01:16:39   And I think I applaud them for that.

01:16:41   Here's one I don't understand.

01:16:43   the removal of the Ahoy telephone.

01:16:45   - Yeah, well I think the idea there is that

01:16:49   if you're raising your wrist to talk to it,

01:16:53   you don't necessarily, it's listening.

01:16:57   - But like what is a raising of a wrist though?

01:16:59   That's the issue, right?

01:17:00   Like if I do put my arm on the table and I say,

01:17:03   oh hey Jason, blah, blah, blah, blah,

01:17:06   like is Siri gonna start just like making some commands?

01:17:10   - We'll have to see, they must, they must have--

01:17:12   They must feel very confident in this one.

01:17:13   - Have recognized that there's a certain gesture

01:17:15   that you use when you're triggering that catchphrase

01:17:18   by picking it up and talking right at it.

01:17:21   - I'm really keen to see what this one looks like

01:17:22   'cause I'm very skeptical of like how,

01:17:25   how that will not misfire all the time.

01:17:27   - Yeah, it's hard to believe

01:17:28   that they would have announced that feature

01:17:29   if they haven't already tested it

01:17:31   and figured out that they just don't need

01:17:32   the trigger phrase anymore.

01:17:33   - I mean, obviously that is why they've done it, right?

01:17:35   But like, I'm just really keen to see how it ends up looking

01:17:38   'cause that one seems like,

01:17:40   It just seems dubious to me that you would get that to work

01:17:43   the way you would always want it to.

01:17:44   - Right, because instead of going a hoy timepiece,

01:17:47   begin an outdoor walk,

01:17:48   you would literally just raise your wrist and say,

01:17:51   begin outdoor walk.

01:17:52   And that's, and it's like, yep, I know what it is.

01:17:55   Set a timer for five minutes. - And if that works,

01:17:57   that is awesome.

01:17:58   - If it works.

01:17:59   - I kind of hate having to do that all the time.

01:18:01   - Yeah. - You know?

01:18:02   Like, hey tube. - It's just no.

01:18:03   - Hey little stubby guy, like do the thing.

01:18:05   Like, you know, I just, you know,

01:18:07   I find it mostly frustrating really.

01:18:10   So I'm excited about that, if that does work,

01:18:12   but I'm also very dubious of it.

01:18:14   Web content is cool.

01:18:16   So somebody sends you a link,

01:18:17   you can kind of get a little preview of it.

01:18:19   That's super useful. - Yeah, and it'll go

01:18:20   into reader mode.

01:18:21   That was one of those things where they're like,

01:18:22   "No, no, no, no web on the Apple Watch.

01:18:24   No, nobody ever wants to do it."

01:18:26   And then somebody sends you an attachment or--

01:18:29   - I don't want a web browser.

01:18:30   You're right, I don't.

01:18:31   But if you text me, "Oh, here's,"

01:18:33   and they use the menu, right?

01:18:34   "This is where we're gonna go for dinner tonight.

01:18:36   What do you think?"

01:18:37   And I'm out.

01:18:38   - And it's just a sorry, I'm unable to--

01:18:39   - 'Cause this is like one of the things

01:18:41   that I've found frustrating about the LTE watch

01:18:43   is that it just never delivered on the promise

01:18:48   of you don't need your phone anymore.

01:18:50   You know like this idea, I mean, yes you can go out

01:18:52   and do it, but like for very specific use cases, you know?

01:18:56   Like I think the dream with this LTE watch

01:18:59   is like ultimately you're good, you just don't need to.

01:19:03   And so having stuff like this is just another kind of,

01:19:06   another way that they're chipping away

01:19:08   the basics of what a smart device needs to have.

01:19:12   And then again, podcasts and background audio they're adding.

01:19:15   So that's going to be really good for third-party apps.

01:19:18   Marco seemed excited about that.

01:19:19   - So the native podcast play support on the watch,

01:19:23   which should have been there ages ago, but is there now,

01:19:26   and support for background audio for other apps.

01:19:29   So it's like the good news and bad news for somebody

01:19:32   like Marco Arment is the bad news is there's a podcast app

01:19:36   on the device now.

01:19:38   The good news is he can also write his podcast app

01:19:41   on the device now and play things in the background.

01:19:44   - I'm assuming by streaming,

01:19:45   like I'm not a hundred percent sure

01:19:46   what that actually means he can do.

01:19:48   - Or he can sideload,

01:19:48   but it means that he can keep his audio going,

01:19:51   which he currently isn't allowed to do basically.

01:19:53   So we'll see, you know,

01:19:55   they'll be recording a podcast later.

01:19:57   I'm sure he's digging into the details of this already,

01:19:59   because there was a funny tweet that he sent

01:20:02   right before the event, which was like,

01:20:03   "Looking forward to seeing how I spend my summer,"

01:20:05   and put off a list of things that it might be.

01:20:07   And one of them is this, so maybe it'll be this.

01:20:11   - So I think, I mean Apple TV, new screensavers.

01:20:15   - It remains a product in their lineup.

01:20:18   - I'm sure you love the space screensaver,

01:20:20   the Earth screensaver from the International Space Station.

01:20:22   - It's funny that that is a feature,

01:20:25   is those aerial screensavers.

01:20:27   - That's what I really want though.

01:20:28   - But people really like those.

01:20:29   - And to be able to see the names of the places.

01:20:30   - Yeah, I know.

01:20:31   - Thankful, like all the time.

01:20:32   - Is that Dubai again?

01:20:33   I think that's Dubai.

01:20:34   - I'm trying to work it out.

01:20:35   and cycle through them and there's new ones.

01:20:36   Honestly, I saw a lot of it.

01:20:37   - People actually love those.

01:20:39   It's silly, but they do.

01:20:39   - You know when I saw that,

01:20:41   this is a criticism that people have made

01:20:43   of Google IO keynotes of like,

01:20:45   Google gives time to everyone.

01:20:47   Apple did that for the tvOS team today.

01:20:50   They kind of just gave them time in the keynote

01:20:51   because every other platform got time.

01:20:55   - How do you not talk about the Apple TV in this scenario?

01:20:57   - You've got to give them something.

01:20:59   'Cause like, probably two thirds,

01:21:01   you got Dolby Atmos too,

01:21:02   and something called ZeroSign on that,

01:21:03   I don't understand 'cause this isn't a thing for me.

01:21:06   But so much of the stuff that the presenter was talking

01:21:09   about was stuff that we already knew about.

01:21:12   - Yeah.

01:21:12   - I spoke about Canal Plus, which I know is plus, not plus.

01:21:15   - Whatever, I'm not French.

01:21:16   - But we knew all of this stuff.

01:21:19   - No, I felt really proud at that moment.

01:21:20   It's like upgrade listeners already know about the deal

01:21:22   that they made with Canal Plus.

01:21:24   - So like, yeah, and it was like, there wasn't,

01:21:27   and then they were like, oh, and this is what the TV app

01:21:29   does, like no new features.

01:21:30   - Zero sign on is interesting.

01:21:33   I have that in my web browser for my cable company where basically if I go to my web

01:21:39   browser for my cable company while I'm on my home network and I say, "Show me TV," it

01:21:44   knows who I am.

01:21:48   That's what that zero sign-on thing is.

01:21:51   If I'm on Comcast, if they use Comcast as a partner, I'm at home, I'm on my home cable

01:21:58   network, I shouldn't even need to log in.

01:22:01   it should know who I am and what I am paying for.

01:22:05   And that's what this should let you do theoretically.

01:22:08   'Cause it is dumb.

01:22:09   Like I think about that every time I log into something

01:22:12   that is from my cable company to verify your cable ID.

01:22:15   It's like I'm literally at home on the cable modem.

01:22:17   You should know who I am.

01:22:19   And so that's what that is.

01:22:20   So yeah, but yeah, it's a,

01:22:22   it was important to have it there

01:22:25   because it's one of their platforms

01:22:27   but they didn't have anything really to speak of this year.

01:22:31   So, keynote's done, but there's a whole week of sessions,

01:22:35   and there's gonna be so much more information coming out.

01:22:37   Like, I can't wait to start looking at Apple's website

01:22:40   and finding all those little details

01:22:42   that I know are just like little treasure chests

01:22:43   for me waiting in there and talking to developers this week.

01:22:46   - 100% guarantee that there's something that we said,

01:22:47   "Oh, I wonder about this that has been answered."

01:22:50   - Yeah, there's so many things.

01:22:51   - 'Cause you just can't track it all.

01:22:54   - And we're gonna be touching on some of these things

01:22:56   on Wednesday, so we're doing a live episode of Connected.

01:23:00   Jason's gonna be a part of that with Serenity Caldwell.

01:23:02   So I think Stephen's gonna be talking to you

01:23:05   about this exact thing, right?

01:23:06   We're a couple of days removed.

01:23:08   What do we know now that we didn't know Monday?

01:23:10   So look out for that on Wednesday in the Connected feed.

01:23:15   - You've heard about Connected, right?

01:23:16   As seen on the keynote?

01:23:17   - As seen on the keynote featured Connected podcast.

01:23:21   - Yes.

01:23:22   - I wanna thank our sponsors for their support today,

01:23:25   Eero, Timing and Away.

01:23:27   They help make this show possible.

01:23:28   Thank you to you for listening.

01:23:30   If you are in WWC, you see me and Jason around,

01:23:33   give us some high fives, we'd love to say hi.

01:23:36   If not, you can tweet us a high five emoji if you want,

01:23:40   we'll appreciate that.

01:23:42   You can find Jason in and around San Jose

01:23:44   for the next couple of days, but over at SixCarlos.com,

01:23:47   I'm sure you've got a heck of a lot to write and say.

01:23:50   - I haven't even thought that far ahead,

01:23:51   'cause you know, upgrade comes first.

01:23:53   But yes, there'll be something.

01:23:54   - And Jason is @JasonL on Twitter, J-S-N-E-L-L.

01:23:57   I am at iMyke, I am YKE, and I am the WWDC draft champion.

01:24:02   Two years in a row.

01:24:04   - Yeah, look at that. - Draft champion.

01:24:06   So, it's still all to play for, September.

01:24:09   - That's right, it's all to play for.

01:24:11   - It's all to play for, assuming there's one event,

01:24:12   which I think we can just assume for now,

01:24:15   all to play for.

01:24:15   - Yep, the tiebreaker.

01:24:16   - I'm very excited about that now, all to play for.

01:24:19   We love doing this episode.

01:24:21   It's one of my favorite episodes of the year.

01:24:23   I really hope that you've enjoyed it.

01:24:25   Thank you so much for tuning in

01:24:26   and giving us your time during what is an incredibly busy week,

01:24:29   especially to the hundreds of people in the chat room,

01:24:32   which I thank you so much for hanging out with us.

01:24:34   I think this is the largest chat room live listening audience

01:24:36   we've ever had on the show.

01:24:37   So I know people are excited about this.

01:24:39   So thank you to all of you tuning in.

01:24:41   We'll be back next week, and we'll have so much to talk about.

01:24:45   - So much. - So much.

01:24:46   Until then, say goodbye, Jason Snell.

01:24:47   - Goodbye, Myke Hurley from San Jose.

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