0:00:00[Music]
0:00:08From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 184. Today's show is brought to you by Squarespace,
0:00:14Fresh Books, and Eero. My name is Myke Curley. I'm joined by the wonderful Mr. Jason Snell.
0:00:20Hello, wonderful Myke Curley. How are you?
0:00:22I'm very well. We're recording earlier today because it's Daylight Savings Time's time.
0:00:25Nope. I don't know what you're talking about. It's exactly the same time as always.
0:00:29Why am I so tired?
0:00:30We're in that two week span until my time changes.
0:00:33Your time's changed, my time will change later.
0:00:36But Myke, nobody wants to hear about the curvature of the Earth, it's time for Snell Talk.
0:00:40Our question this week, I really like the lore of this question, it comes from Myke.
0:00:45Myke asks, "Jason, if you were the focus of a police manhunt, which of your tech products
0:00:51should the bloodhounds smell to make sure that they can track you down?"
0:00:56Why am I helping the police, Myke?
0:00:57Why?
0:00:58helping them in advance? Yeah, you should be very--maybe you want to throw the bloodhounds
0:01:02off the scent with this answer, I don't know. It's one of my favorite Snell Talk questions
0:01:07because it's thrown all kind of just like preconceived notion out of the window and
0:01:13has created this world that we now live in. So I guess really, the question that Myke
0:01:20is actually asking is which of your technology products do you have with you the most, like
0:01:25would be my expectation. But I don't know, I feel like there's a whole angle here which
0:01:29is what, what he's actually asking is, "What tech products do you own that most carry your
0:01:37scent?" And I have an answer. Although I think maybe the Apple Watch is the answer, my guess
0:01:45is that I'm going to be wearing my Apple Watch during the manhunt.
0:01:49Yes, during the fugitive runaway.
0:01:52so they're not going to be able to see it, but it's highly unlikely that I would leave
0:01:57home with my AirPods because, I mean, first off, you gotta be on your toes when you're
0:02:06the subject of a police manhunt, and the last thing you need is to put in headphones, unless
0:02:11you're, you know, talking to a collaborator or something, but I think you'd want to be
0:02:14in airplane mode, you wouldn't want to be tracked, and you certainly wouldn't want to
0:02:17cut yourself off from sounds that might allow you to evade capture. So I would probably
0:02:22leave my AirPods at home and you know what? They get stuck in my ears when I listen to
0:02:28them and I would bet you that there is on my AirPods enough of a residue for the Bloodhounds
0:02:34to follow me and find my ears, which hopefully would be attached to my body during the manhunt.
0:02:43Although you never know. Who knows what might happen. So I'm going to say AirPods. That's
0:02:46my answer. Final answer, Myke.
0:02:48>> Thank you so much to Myke for sending this question in. I encourage people to take a
0:02:54lesson from Myke's wonderful question to try and build out the lore of Snell Talk a little
0:03:00bit more.
0:03:01>> Oh, God.
0:03:02>> We've got a whole thing going on. So you could just send in a tweet with the hashtag
0:03:05Snell Talk that get dropped into a document for me to pick up at a later date. Thank you
0:03:09to Myke for that suggestion.
0:03:11>> Some real-time follow-up, Joe Steele in the chat room did suggest that you could also
0:03:14use my mechanical keyboard as a place to get my smell and then they would find my fingers.
0:03:20That's not a bad idea, not a bad idea, thank you, don't relay that to the police.
0:03:23I bet there were some crumbs in there, you know?
0:03:25Yes, so they might, the bloodhounds might be attracted to my pantry instead if they
0:03:31smell the crumbs, I don't know, but yeah, anyway, I'm gonna say, the crumbs don't carry
0:03:37my DNA, do they? I don't know.
0:03:40That's how that works.
0:03:41Maybe if they fell out of your mouth, who knows, I don't know how you eat.
0:03:43I like how you said that, you said "I don't know, DNA?" Like that's a magic wand that
0:03:49police use to find people. Maybe it is. Maybe it is. Alright.
0:03:52The DNA magicians. Let's start with some follow up. In regards to Apple's laptop lineup, I
0:03:58had a couple of questions that I wanted to ask you. We were talking about the Air last
0:04:02week and its kind of failed attempts to replace, well the MacBook, its failed attempts to replace
0:04:08the Air, right? And that the MacBook Air is sticking around. The MacBook has not kind
0:04:12have done a job in getting rid of it. So we had Omar ask, "Isn't the MacBook Pro, the
0:04:19non-touch bar, what is lovingly known as the MacBook escape, the actual spiritual successor
0:04:25to the Air, not the MacBook?"
0:04:28Yeah, I think he makes a great point. It depends on how you view it. I actually wrote, after
0:04:35our conversation last week, I wrote a piece for Macworld that we can put in the show notes.
0:04:40called MacBook Air, why won't it die? This is the grand cycle. We've talked about it
0:04:44before the grand cycle. I write something, we talk about it, I write something else that
0:04:47just it just keeps on going, which is not I got an angry email from one person who's
0:04:54like why are you advocating the death of the MacBook Air? It's great. I said no, no, no,
0:04:57I'm not. I'm just wondering why Apple has gotten to this point and we talked about that.
0:05:01So I think Omar makes a good point. I think there are two successors to the MacBook Air.
0:05:06I think the MacBook is its successor in the sense of
0:05:09let's make a thin and light laptop for people.
0:05:12That is like thin and light laptop is part of the charter
0:05:15of the MacBook Air.
0:05:16If you look at tech specs, the MacBook escape,
0:05:20which is this weird, let's also mention weird computer
0:05:24in terms of where it's positioned,
0:05:26'cause it's like the other 13 inch MacBook Pro,
0:05:30which has always been strange.
0:05:33But if you look at its specs,
0:05:35it's using the what 15 watt Intel core processors
0:05:39that are, that's the equivalent of what's in the MacBook Air.
0:05:42The MacBook Air is using the fifth generation,
0:05:44whereas the MacBook Pro is using the current generation,
0:05:46which is I think the seventh generation,
0:05:48but they are using those processors and it weighs,
0:05:53and I did, I looked it up for my article,
0:05:57it weighs less than an ounce more
0:06:00than the MacBook Air 13 inch.
0:06:02And I believe the MacBook Air's thickest point is the consistent thickness of the MacBook
0:06:07Pro. They're kind of around the same size and width at that point.
0:06:11I think the MacBook Escape is actually thinner than the thickest point of the MacBook Air.
0:06:18But obviously the MacBook Air has that wedge shape, which the MacBook Pro does not. But
0:06:22still it's three pounds. It's a three pound laptop that weighs the same. And since they
0:06:28cut its price by $200 it also cost $1299. So I think they are dual successors and it
0:06:35depends on what you're looking for in a MacBook Air that leads you down the path of the thin
0:06:40and light laptop or the one that's got comparable processors and comparable weight than a light
0:06:45laptop. Say a pound, it goes from three to two if you get the MacBook. But I think Omer
0:06:50is absolutely right that that MacBook Escape is also a successor to the MacBook Air and
0:06:56That makes it even weirder that it's called a MacBook Pro.
0:07:01And yet there's also another 13 inch MacBook Pro
0:07:04with touch bar that has completely different features
0:07:06and different port configurations and all of that.
0:07:08And it's just something happened.
0:07:11So a series of things clearly happened
0:07:13in product development at Apple
0:07:15that led that product to be labeled the way it is
0:07:18and yet designed the way it is
0:07:20that has led to the MacBook Air lasting suspiciously longer
0:07:24than Apple, I think, intended it to. I got a good piece of feedback from somebody after
0:07:30I talked about this with Jon Gruber on the talk show last week, who said, you know, Apple
0:07:34sold old laptops several times before. And my response to him was something like, "Yeah,
0:07:41but they sold the old laptop." To--if this rumor is true, like, to continue updating
0:07:47the old laptop and, like, keeping it alive and updating it, that's the part where it
0:07:52gets really weird. Instead of it being like, also old laptop is available, but they like,
0:07:57they gave it a processor boost last year. And now this rumor is that they're, and it's
0:08:01a rumor, but that they're updating it again and maybe cutting its price. Like, that's
0:08:05the weird part about it. Keeping an old product around just available is not the same as-
0:08:10Right. It's not just the hanger on, is it, at this point?
0:08:12Right, well, and that's the speculation part of this, but that's the thought, is it doesn't
0:08:17seem like a dead product, because there's some stirrings there, and that's the weird
0:08:22part is like that they can't get rid of it and in fact they may be forced to update it
0:08:27and that's a weird thing too. But I think I have recommended that MacBook escape to
0:08:33people because it is the 13-inch MacBook Air successor in many ways and it's the same price
0:08:38as the MacBook. So literally you can say which do you prioritize? Do you want a little more
0:08:43powerful laptop but it's a pound heavier? It's the same as the 13-inch Air and it's
0:08:48got two ports, or do you want the one port but one pound lighter thin and light MacBook,
0:08:54and then you have to choose your priority there. But in a parallel universe, in an alternate
0:09:03world, I think that MacBook escape is the all-new MacBook Air, and the MacBook is the
0:09:09MacBook, but I think Apple decided that the MacBook Air was a weird name, and that the
0:09:16if there was a MacBook Air it would be the MacBook, but then they called the
0:09:19MacBook the MacBook. Maybe they should have called that the MacBook Air and the
0:09:22Mac Escape should have been called the MacBook. Well this is the problem.
0:09:26And I suspect that this is what happened in a meeting at Apple. This exact, it's like
0:09:32"Well, wait, what? Huh? This is way too complicated." And somebody probably said
0:09:36"This is way too complicated. Let's just sell two MacBook Pro 13 inches with
0:09:40completely different specs." That's much less complicated and the answer is it's
0:09:44it's not less complicated. But anyway, Omer's point is well taken, it's a weird situation.
0:09:50I am positive that somebody at Apple really views the MacBook line as some place where
0:09:54they're getting their product line in order and their naming refined and it's gonna be
0:09:59clear eventually and they're probably frustrated that because of the way the product line has
0:10:05gone it hasn't gotten there yet. Unlike the iPad which is resolving itself, the MacBook
0:10:11line is still confused. So maybe this year, we'll see.
0:10:15It is worth noting as well that they are not comparable in price, but the 13-inch MacBook
0:10:22Pro starts at like $1300, but it has some specs that kind of sit in between the two
0:10:28current MacBook Airs, right? Like I think it has like a 128GB SSD where the 1200 MacBook
0:10:36Air has a 256, so obviously it's a more powerful, more modern, and better in a bunch of ways
0:10:41machine, like it has a retina screen and stuff like that. I don't know if you could really
0:10:46think of it as just a flat out replacement because the bottom of the line one is like
0:10:51$300 more expensive.
0:10:54Exactly, exactly, and if they were to take it down to $999, let's say, and get rid of
0:11:02the MacBook Air, one of the things they would probably have to do is reduce the specs further,
0:11:05if you look at the MacBook escape at 128 SSD, it's like I'm not sure they really want to
0:11:11go down below that to like a 64 SSD. So it's fascinating to see like what, you know, Apple
0:11:20is trying to balance out what's available with their profit margins, which we don't
0:11:26get to see, and make the best guesses, I think, in terms of the most profitability to grind
0:11:33out of these things. Plus, I think there is, unstated on this episode, but we mentioned
0:11:38it last week, the real reason the MacBook Air survives is because there are probably
0:11:43some huge industries or sectors into which Apple sells where they've realized they can't
0:11:50get away with saying our laptops start at $12.99. And education is a good example of
0:11:55that. Apple's having a tough time in education anyway because Chromebooks are doing so well,
0:11:58the iPad is doing less well in education because Chromebooks have been so successful, and then
0:12:02Macbooks which probably aren't great but I know a lot especially in individual students
0:12:07in higher ed and even in high school do like Apple laptops and so they sell some there
0:12:12and they're you know and they're probably other industries too and there may be even
0:12:15a general sense that at $9.99 they will get people in the door and at $12.99 they won't.
0:12:22So they're grappling with that part too which is just how you know how do we set the base
0:12:28price for getting into the Mac ecosystem and the Apple ecosystem with a laptop and clearly
0:12:34if they thought $12.99 would do it the MacBook Air wouldn't exist anymore but it does so
0:12:39obviously it matters.
0:12:41And I also want to talk about this wonderful piece of follow-up from Mac who I am dubbing
0:12:47a super upgrade in for Mac's work that you will find out in a moment just what makes
0:12:52Mac a super upgrade in.
0:12:54But we got this email from Mac and Mac says "On episode 29 of Upgrade in March 2015,
0:13:01during a discussion of the iPad mini continuing to be sold with outdated internals, Jason
0:13:06says the following "This is a ghost product.
0:13:09In 3 or 4 years there'll probably still be a 13-inch MacBook Air in the product line
0:13:14and will say the same thing, which is why is it still there?
0:13:18And the answer is they can sell that for $799, but it's cheap and it's old and it's fine.
0:13:24Now that is unbelievable. What makes Mac a super upgradient is Mac heard this, then set
0:13:30a calendar event and that's for three years, three years time. And that's how this came
0:13:36up. So bravo, Mr. Snell, you did it.
0:13:41What I replied to Mac and I said, if if if the cutting the price rumor is true and it
0:13:46it ends up just being the same old 13 inch air, but now it's $799, then I am going to
0:13:51take a victory lap. But you know, it is, look, Apple does this stuff, so it's not super surprising
0:13:58that I would extrapolate something like that. You know, and it felt at the time when the
0:14:03MacBook came out, right? Like, wow, that's $1299 and the air still exists. That's quite
0:14:08a gap for them to close. So here we are. I just, I think it's amazing and a little disquieting
0:14:13that the stupid things we say on podcasts, somebody's out there going, "Oh yes, in four
0:14:17years I will ask you about this." It's the claim chowder secret society.
0:14:24Well, I would like to, you're not going to like this, I would like to propose a name
0:14:29for this. I follow up this way as "Fortune Snailing." That is what I would like to call
0:14:36when you make claims for the future, "Fortune Snailing." So there you go, that's what we're
0:14:42going to attempt to roll with against Jason's absolute disdain.
0:14:47As usual, I've filled my names with things.
0:14:49But you know, history has shown that I can wear you down over time.
0:14:55Let's take a break and thank FreshBooks for supporting this week's show.
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0:16:44show and relay FM.
0:16:47So last week we spoke about the sequel to Alien, Aliens, and I had two little pieces
0:16:52of funny follow up that I wanted to talk about that we got sent in.
0:16:56The first came from Vincent about the way that James Cameron actually pitched Aliens
0:17:00to the studio.
0:17:03Apparently this comes from an article in Cinema Blend.
0:17:07James Cameron took a pen and wrote on a whiteboard the word Alien.
0:17:12Then he put an S next to it, then he drew a vertical line down the S, turning it into
0:17:18a dollar sign.
0:17:19So it was "Alien Dollar."
0:17:21And that was how he sold Aliens to the studio, and it seems like that ended up working out
0:17:27pretty well for everyone involved.
0:17:29Yep.
0:17:30And we got an email this very morning from listener Douglas, Upgrading Douglas, who is
0:17:37from London and said his first job out of college he was at Pinewood Studios and wandering
0:17:44around the film lot at lunchtime he stumbled on the full-size aliens tank which is mostly
0:17:50made of plywood because they made a full-sized one for the people to be but then when you
0:17:54draw saw it driving around it was a remote controlled one so and he said he saw also
0:17:59various Marines from aliens walking around in their costume but full metal jacket was
0:18:04also being made at the same time, so there were various eras of soldiers wandering around
0:18:09Pinewood Studios, which is a pretty cool story from Douglas.
0:18:13I saw this article on The Verge about an Apple patent. Now, patents are patents are patents,
0:18:19right? They're going to be what they're going to be. But I found it interesting to show
0:18:22some potential future product development from Apple in the keyboard department. So
0:18:26this patent was filed in 2016, so it is not in kind of, it is not a thing that has been
0:18:32done because of complaints about current keyboard reliability. This is probably just something
0:18:38Apple was maybe aware of and were thinking about. This is about creating a keyboard that
0:18:43could resist debris. And there are two possible methods that Apple have outlined in this pattern.
0:18:49One is pretty boring and one is more interesting. The boring one is just sealing off gaps and
0:18:54my expectation is they would maybe try and do something more akin to a smart keyboard.
0:18:59are no gaps because there are no gaps and the key switches are all kind of hidden. But
0:19:04the better one that I thought was kind of hilarious is by using some kind of membrane
0:19:09underneath the key switch that when you press would force air to blow out anything hidden
0:19:15in the keyboard every single time that a key is pressed.
0:19:18Every time you type you compress the air that blows out the dust from your keyboard. Yeah
0:19:24- Yeah, it's funny.
0:19:25I don't see how sealing off a keyboard
0:19:27so that nothing can get into it is patentable.
0:19:32Isn't that something that people have been doing for ages?
0:19:36Like, back decades?
0:19:37- There are these, obviously with all patents,
0:19:39it is like, if you do it in this one very specific way.
0:19:43- In this one way.
0:19:44I think it's funny that there was also that patent
0:19:46that was reported recently,
0:19:47which was, which made everybody freak out,
0:19:49which was, what if instead of a keyboard,
0:19:52just had a screen and you typed on that and that was the keyboard and everyone's no zero
0:19:59travel keyboard. What I like about this is that Apple has somebody in their input devices
0:20:07group who is thinking about innovation in input devices including keyboards. What I
0:20:13don't like about this is that I worry that Apple is going to get really excited about
0:20:19a new keyboard innovation that just makes a lousy keyboard. Now, some of you will say,
0:20:24"They've already done that!" Maybe they have, maybe they haven't. I do worry a little bit
0:20:30about that, but I like the fact that Apple doesn't look at something like the keyboard
0:20:35and say, "Oh, that's a solved problem. We just are just going to use the same keyboard
0:20:40forever and it could never get any better." The downside of that is if they do something
0:20:44they think is better and that we don't think is better.
0:20:48- Yeah, 'cause what this patent could have come from
0:20:51was a directive of, we need to make these keyboards
0:20:54thinner and thinner and just find ways to do that
0:20:58and then they come up with stuff like this
0:20:59as opposed to like, we need to make
0:21:01the thin keyboard better.
0:21:02Do you know what I mean?
0:21:03It's like, not necessarily trying to improve the keyboard,
0:21:05but just to stop them from going wrong in the future.
0:21:09- And while this might not be about people's complaints
0:21:11about the MacBook keyboard and the new keyboards
0:21:13and the MacBook Pros too. It's also possible that in their work on those keyboards, they
0:21:18noticed that there were issues with that the thinner you get it, that smaller amounts of
0:21:25debris can cause problems. And this may be the result of them saying, "Okay, how do we
0:21:32solve those problems so that they don't affect us?" And that they are related. It wouldn't
0:21:37be related to the complaints, but it might be related to the awareness that it could
0:21:40be a problem. I told Casey Liss that he should take this article and hold it at a 70 degree
0:21:47angle and blow compressed air on it in order to clean out the patent. Yeah. Interesting.
0:21:53Like I said, it's kind of a two-edged sword, but I like that Apple is trying this stuff.
0:21:59I'm not entirely convinced that the touch screen keyboard idea is a worse idea than
0:22:08an increasingly thin physical keyboard.
0:22:10I think at some point-- - I think it's wild
0:22:12to even assume that that is not an inevitable future.
0:22:17Like, because everyone growing up now types more on glass.
0:22:22- Yeah, and there are haptics, and if it's a large space
0:22:27and you can find a way to set your fingers,
0:22:30and I mean, that's the challenge is like,
0:22:33and touch bar fails at this, right?
0:22:34So this is one of the challenges,
0:22:36is having a touch screen where you have to look down to orient
0:22:40because you can't do it on feel
0:22:41because your feel will activate it, right?
0:22:43So I think that,
0:22:46and I don't know if they filed patents on this,
0:22:48but that's the kind of stuff you need to think about
0:22:50in patent, which is, okay, a touch screen
0:22:53that you can type on, yeah, we can do that.
0:22:56But like, how do you do,
0:22:58how do you design a touch interface
0:23:00that allows you to touch it in order to orient?
0:23:04And that means like by feel and not visually,
0:23:07because that's what is the great thing about physical keys
0:23:10is you can orient.
0:23:11So if they can figure out ways to give you feedback,
0:23:14not just while you're typing, although that's useful,
0:23:16but also while you're looking at a screen
0:23:18while your hands are laying down on a surface,
0:23:21if you can provide a way
0:23:23to get those things oriented properly,
0:23:25and I don't know, it may be,
0:23:27this is just, I'm throwing this out there,
0:23:28I'm not patenting this idea,
0:23:29but it may be that the future is not
0:23:33finding a way to create some sort of surface that you can activate to make it have a texture
0:23:38in certain points so you can put your hands on it. It may be like the sensor in the camera
0:23:43above the screen sees the position of your hands and knows what the home position is. So wherever
0:23:52you put your hands on it is right. Like, right? I mean, they could do that. That actually is not
0:23:59an impossible thing. Somebody may write in and say, "Well, they've already shown that somewhere.
0:24:03somebody has demoed that, but like there are ways to do it. And so I don't think it's outlandish.
0:24:07- Or that predictive texting just gets so good that nothing needs to know, they just
0:24:14work it out, right? It just ends up getting better and better.
0:24:18- Source spot right now, but you're right. It could be, and the other thing is then you
0:24:22also have alternative input methods like keyboards have alternative methods like cording keyboards
0:24:27or Dvorak keyboards or, you know, ones with different shapes. But once it's a plane of
0:24:31glass you can do things like swipe keyboards as an example but there are
0:24:35all sorts of things you can do with that space plus you can use it as an
0:24:38interface space you could use it as a drawing space but as a person who types
0:24:43words for me that would be the biggest issue is I can type pretty fast on an
0:24:48ipad pro 12.9 keyboard but there's this issue of like having to look down at it
0:24:53because I don't know where my fingers are exactly on the keyboard and most of
0:24:57my typing errors on an iPhone or an iPad come because I just didn't press the
0:25:03right spot. I was slightly off, and part of that is it's small enough on the
0:25:07iPhone that a small error will get you the wrong key, but part of it is that I
0:25:12don't know where my fingers are on the screen because I can't orient by touch,
0:25:16because if I touch, I'm setting off an interaction. That's another thing where
0:25:19you think about 3D touch. That's another possibility with something like this is
0:25:23you could have a surface that is not instantly activated by touch in all modes, and then
0:25:30like for typing you might actually need to apply slightly more pressure to an area, and
0:25:35that way you could actually do some kind of touch orientation, get a little haptic or
0:25:39something and then start typing and with a little extra force. I mean there are lots
0:25:44of things. Yes, I guess what I'm saying is in an alternate life I was apparently a keyboard
0:25:50researcher somewhere because I think it's fascinating. I've talked to people who work
0:25:55in the input device group at Apple and like they're really into it and I and bless them
0:26:00because I think I want them to investigate other ways of input because this is not the
0:26:05be all end all. The keyboard which was invented not too long ago is not the be all end all
0:26:10of input.
0:26:11I mean there is an argument to be made that having a physical keyboard and a laptop is
0:26:16as wild as having a physical keyboard and an iPhone, right, as you go into the future.
0:26:21The fact that you have this whole space where it's just one fixed input method is potentially
0:26:27not the best thing going into the future, right? Like, yes, you may have a worse typing
0:26:32experience by traditional standards, by traditional means, but what if it enables new ways of
0:26:38manipulating software and computing that we don't have right now in the way that we didn't
0:26:42before the iPhone. The iPhone not having a fixed keyboard has enabled so much innovation
0:26:49that could potentially happen in a laptop form factor if there were two screens instead
0:26:53of one.
0:26:54Yep.
0:26:55Should we do some upstream news?
0:26:57Sure, let's do it.
0:26:59Barack Obama is reportedly in talks to create content for Netflix. According to a report
0:27:04from the New York Times, Netflix is currently negotiating with the Obama family to produce
0:27:10a series of exclusive shows for their platform. It is said that they are not planning to use
0:27:15this as a political platform per se against the current administration, but to highlight
0:27:20inspirational stories that could have an angle on them which carry some of what Barack Obama
0:27:24was attempting to do in office. So giving the Obama family a platform to talk about
0:27:29their views and opinions on immigration, nutrition, foreign policy, climate change and healthcare
0:27:34are some that the New York Times report outlined. Apparently, both Amazon and Apple have also,
0:27:41as you can imagine, voiced similar interest in talking with the Obama family about this
0:27:46project.
0:27:47Yeah, second acts for former presidents is always a, you know, it's a challenge. Like,
0:27:53what do you do? They do speaking things, they do...
0:27:55Books, loads of books.
0:27:57The books and things like that. I think this is interesting. In the New York Times story,
0:28:01it up against sort of like the idea of the speaking tour. That what if in the 21st century
0:28:08one of the ways that presidents have their post-presidency career is instead of having
0:28:16the big speaking tours where they get paid a lot of money, they have a media platform.
0:28:22And Obama seems like the kind of person who would be good at that. And I don't think we're
0:28:26we're going to get like the Obama show. I don't think that's going to happen, but I
0:28:31think the idea that this might be where he makes his money and also feels like he's influencing
0:28:39conversation. I don't think that what this is going to end up being is something like
0:28:44the Obama news network, right? Where it's like instead of Fox News, there's Obama news.
0:28:49Like a series of documentaries about life in America or something.
0:28:54Yeah you look at what I'm gonna, it's a funny parallel, but if you look at what David Letterman
0:28:59has done, and actually the David Letterman Barack Obama interview is funny because Obama
0:29:04himself draws some parallels between them which is, "Hey, we both had jobs for a long
0:29:08time and we don't have those jobs anymore and now what do we do?"
0:29:11I guarantee you that that special is what led to this conversation.
0:29:14I wouldn't, it would not surprise me if they were looking at what Letterman was doing because
0:29:19he signed his deal for his show for a lot of money.
0:29:22- I love that Letterman show, by the way.
0:29:24It's so good.
0:29:26I wish there were more and more and more.
0:29:28I love it.
0:29:29- I love it.
0:29:30That's good, especially since David Letterman
0:29:31is not a name in the rest of the world
0:29:35like he is in America.
0:29:36I think it's great.
0:29:37The first episode, okay,
0:29:38we're gonna take a little sidebar here.
0:29:39The first episode, I was really disappointed.
0:29:41We talked about it.
0:29:42I was really disappointed
0:29:42in some of the production values of it.
0:29:44I thought the sound wasn't very good.
0:29:46I thought the way it was shot was a little bit weird,
0:29:48but the George Clooney episode and the Malala episode,
0:29:53both were shot in different venues
0:29:56and both of them had great audio
0:29:58and both of them looked really good.
0:29:59And it's like you're watching a movie of an interview,
0:30:03which is like the way it's shot
0:30:05and it's got the interstitial things
0:30:07where he's out in the world
0:30:08visiting like George Clooney's family
0:30:10in his hometown in Kentucky,
0:30:11or he goes to Oxford with Malala.
0:30:15- I haven't seen the Malala episode yet.
0:30:17- Oh yeah, it's really good. - Because the show seems
0:30:18to be on such a really weird schedule, I just like, catch it when I want to watch something.
0:30:22- I think it's like the first of the month. Basically it's like a first Friday of the
0:30:26month is when they're dropping them. - I feel like I don't have a concept of it,
0:30:29you know? - Yeah, I only noticed the new episode was
0:30:31out, I mean this is the challenge with Netflix, is they're like, how do we do something that
0:30:34doesn't drop in a binge, but drops weekly or monthly? They're doing this with the Joel
0:30:38McHale show is a weekly that is, um, but they want to get into this, right? They want to
0:30:43have the John Oliver style weekly comedy commentary thing. They've signed a bunch of deals for
0:30:50that, so Netflix is going to have to figure out how they promote things that don't drop
0:30:55in a binge and how do they do that. But to back up, I think Obama looked at the Letterman
0:31:02thing and also Letterman, like the first thing he did when he retired is he did like a National
0:31:06Geographic documentary about going to India and talking about climate change and talking
0:31:12about solar power and all sorts of things in India, but it was also sort of his, he
0:31:17went to India and it s kind of interesting to see him interacting with people in India
0:31:21and also learning about what s going on in India and he talked to the Prime Minister
0:31:24and all of that. And I looked at that and thought, you know, I think this is the kind
0:31:29of thing that Obama might look at and say, That s actually not a bad analog for what
0:31:35I might want to do and why not do that? So, I think it s a fascinating fact.
0:31:38And he is young enough and entertaining enough that it could work?
0:31:44Yeah, that's exactly it. He's a relatively young person, especially for an ex-president,
0:31:50and he's good at that stuff. He's good at media. Even the people who don't like him
0:31:54would have to admit he's great at speaking, he's an interesting personality, he's got
0:32:01that going for him. And Michelle does too, right? She's really great at communicating
0:32:06and expressing herself and she's a very interesting person and I think just judging them as media
0:32:11personalities I think it's an interesting it's very interesting so the fact that Amazon
0:32:17and Apple and Netflix are talking to them like 21st century man all the rules are different
0:32:23so it's fascinating.
0:32:25S1 22 Kenneth Lonergan signs a first look deal with
0:32:28Amazon. Lonergan is the writer and director of the Oscar award-winning Manchester by the
0:32:33Sea
0:32:34films production that won an Oscar. Then they put it in theaters and then they showed it
0:32:38on Amazon but Amazon was the releasing studio for that film.
0:32:42-Lonnigan also wrote, analyzed this and co-wrote the screenplay of Gangs of New York. What
0:32:49is a first look deal? -Sounds like they pay him to let Amazon get
0:32:55the first chance to buy anything he does. -Right, they get right at first refusal then
0:32:59on any project that Lonnigan's doing. Okay. -Right, so that says we want to be in the
0:33:04Kenneth Lonergan business but we're not going to agree to buy everything you do. That's
0:33:09probably what the conversation was. But this is something we're seeing a lot where you've
0:33:14got Netflix and other companies making deals with creative people. It's not just buying
0:33:19shows, but like Netflix made their deals with Ryan Murphy and Shonda Rhimes. And you know,
0:33:25Amazon making a deal with a director, writer. This is all like, let me get good creative
0:33:32people on our team and and studios do this studios have deals with people and now we're
0:33:38seeing streaming services make those deals too and that's part of this arms race almost
0:33:43creative arms race that's happening.
0:33:46And Jon Favreau is going to executive produce and write a live-action Star Wars series for
0:33:52Disney's upcoming streaming platform. Does this get you excited?
0:33:55Um no.
0:33:56There's too much Star Wars I'm starting to think now.
0:34:01Well, there was always going to be a live-action Star Wars series, and that was going to happen.
0:34:06It was inevitable. It's funny. It's never happened before. It's going to be on Disney's
0:34:11new streaming service. I was talking to somebody about Disney streaming services, and they're
0:34:15like, "How many are they going to have?" And the answer is, so far as we know, three. They're
0:34:20going to have Disney streaming service, which is going to have Marvel and Star Wars content
0:34:23on it, and Disney movies and stuff like that. They're going to have an ESPN service, and
0:34:27gonna own most of Hulu, which is probably where all of the adult content, the FX shows
0:34:33and things will live, is my guess. But that's this. Jean-Fevreux, it's interesting. Definitely
0:34:42heard from a lot of people who are disappointed because it is a, to put it bluntly, it's another
0:34:47white guy being handed the keys to Star Wars and at a time when I think a lot of people
0:34:52are hoping that there would be more diversity in the people who are making Star Wars.
0:34:56Yeah, because it seems like every multi-year future project that Star Wars related has
0:35:03got a man behind it right now.
0:35:05A middle-aged white guy, yeah. Well, Rian Johnson's pretty young. So here's the thing.
0:35:12What's interesting about this to me is that Jon Favreau is, you know, he's got like two
0:35:17writing credits, substantial writing credits to his name, so they say he's executive producing
0:35:22and writing. My guess is that this is going to be like Joss Whedon with Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.
0:35:27where Jon Favreau is going to come in and maybe write or co-write and direct the pilot,
0:35:35but I'm skeptical that he will even be the showrunner. My guess is that he's going to
0:35:40be more like J.J. Abrams with Lost is a good example. There are other examples of this
0:35:46where it's like he's gonna be overseeing it to a certain degree, but my guess is that
0:35:52he's gonna hire a showrunner or showrunners to do this show and do the heavy lifting day-to-day
0:35:58beyond setting the initial concept. He may be involved in the initial casting and concept
0:36:04and character development and writing the pilot episode and all of that and building
0:36:08the writers room and hiring all the writers, but I have a hard time imagining Jon Favreau
0:36:15saying, "Oh yeah, this is gonna be my job day-to-day, super intense, as a showrunner."
0:36:20Like, that's a huge job, and he's like a film director/actor with some writing background.
0:36:28That doesn't seem like a showrunner job. I could be wrong, because that's not--all the
0:36:31report says is he's gonna write and execute to produce this series. But I don't believe
0:36:37that he's going to be the showrunner, per se. I think that there will be somebody else
0:36:43who is in there day to day. And yeah, so I hope that perhaps that is an opportunity for
0:36:50him to hire some more diverse faces and voices to create some different takes on Star Wars.
0:37:02Because I think we saw with the success of Black Panther especially that different perspectives
0:37:07bring different creative work and it's exciting when there's something that feels different
0:37:13and that is coming from a different perspective and I think that that would be good for Star
0:37:17Wars but he's a he seems like a very you know solid guy creatively and he's also a company
0:37:21man which we have to say he directed Jungle Book he is directing the Lion King live-action
0:37:27movie another reason why I don't believe that he's gonna just become suddenly become a TV
0:37:31showrunner even for a Star Wars show yeah when like he's he's in a position right now
0:37:36where they are handing him every single big movie they've ever had. Right, like, do you
0:37:42want to just do them? You can just do them if you want to.
0:37:45Yeah, all of these new live-action versions of animated Disney classics that he's done,
0:37:51and then before that, what did he do? Well, he directed Iron Man 1 and 2, and basically
0:37:57has-- he could take a lot of credit, not all the credit, Kevin Feige is the guy who's
0:38:03mind the whole thing, but like he's an integral part of the launching of the Marvel Cinematic
0:38:09Universe.
0:38:10Jared: He made superhero movies legit movies.
0:38:12Chris A many-million dollar business for, as it turns out now, Disney, right? So he
0:38:17is a company man in those ways, so to have him be involved in this other leg of Disney's
0:38:23empire is not surprising, but I'm going to apply a little skepticism. I think there's
0:38:28still opportunity here for some other interesting creative announcements, and I'm hopeful of
0:38:33that for the live action series because running a TV series is a really tough job and I I
0:38:38I'm if I I if he ends up being the showrunner and and is going to put the whole thing together
0:38:43then bless him but I have a hard time seeing that that is that's a weird career choice
0:38:47for him given his career arc right now.
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0:40:17So there was every now and then on Twitter there were like these kind of quote tweet
0:40:22memes that go around kind of just for an evening and they disappear. And one of the ones that
0:40:28happened yesterday was people naming their top five Apple products of the last five years.
0:40:34And I thought, what a great topic for a podcast. So here we are. This is not draft rules. We're
0:40:40not doing a draft. We're going to save the draft because we're probably not that far
0:40:44away from a draft really. It's either going to be a few months, but we've got to save
0:40:49them drafts for the heavy hitting. But I saw this flying around and I thought we should
0:40:55do this. So we'll go from five to one, our personal favorite Apple products of the last
0:41:01five years. Jason, do you want to go first with pick number five?
0:41:05Yeah, I and I misunderstood when when this was this was in there the first time and I
0:41:10didn't realize you were counting down and so I had these in a different order and then
0:41:12I flipped them and it was that was kind of fascinating because I wasn't even though I
0:41:17I saw your pics in our shared document, I was trying to ignore them and then it turns
0:41:22out that was great because I had also misread them. I misread the rankings. So then I had
0:41:26to flip everything around. So this was going to be my like capper like weird bottom pic
0:41:31and instead it s going to go first but here it is. I m going to say, get ready for it
0:41:35people, the MacBook. Yeah, I know people are like, Oh, it s got a weird keyboard. It s
0:41:40got only one port. It s two pounds. My daughter, I bought when her Chromebook was finally
0:41:46dying. I bought her a MacBook. A refurb 2017, I think, MacBook. And it's great. It's great.
0:41:57It's — I admit at $12.99, like, it would be nice if it were cheaper, which is why I
0:42:01bought a refurb, because I wanted to save a little bit of money. But as somebody who
0:42:07always loved the MacBook Air, and I like thin and light laptops, I love the MacBook. Now,
0:42:11I'll grant you, I wish it had two ports. I think it's silly that you can't charge and
0:42:16plug-in USB on it, but she doesn't care. And she loves it, and I can see why. I like the
0:42:24screen. The keyboard isn't great, although the new keyboard is better than the original
0:42:30keyboard, and it's two pounds. And yeah, it's not super duper speedy in terms of the processor,
0:42:37but for most uses it doesn't matter. And if I were buying a new Mac laptop today, I would
0:42:45be really torn between the MacBook escape and the MacBook, but I would be leaning toward
0:42:51the MacBook. And I like that this is Apple saying we can push what we did with the MacBook
0:42:55Air even further and also have the Retina display. So I want to give Apple credit for
0:42:59that. I think it's a really fun product. I'm going to go with the Apple Watch Series 3
0:43:06as my number 5 pick. I wouldn't say that I'm smitten with the Apple Watch. I really like
0:43:14it as a product, it has a long way to go. For a product that I like as much as this,
0:43:20I can't think of anything that I can still say it's not good enough. If I think about
0:43:28the HomePod, I know the HomePod isn't good enough, but I don't have affection for the HomePod in the
0:43:34same way that I do my Apple Watch. It is a product that I really, really appreciate and it has made a
0:43:39a big difference to some of the way that I interact and work and use my technology.
0:43:44But it has a long way to go still.
0:43:47But I believe in the product's ability going into the future, because what they've done
0:43:51so far, I've enjoyed a lot and I've gotten a lot of use out of it.
0:43:56The software has gotten a lot better.
0:43:58And the inclusion of LTE holds a lot of promise for what I really honestly want to be as a
0:44:04mini computer on my wrist is ultimately what I want.
0:44:07And I think the LTE watch has shown me that in a way that no other watch did before. An
0:44:14Apple watch's ability to be an independent computer is a very interesting and powerful
0:44:19thing. But the current way that the software and the product is built does not easily enable
0:44:24or enforce that with developers, even with Apple themselves in some places. So I see
0:44:32the Series 3 as the first step towards what I think this product could eventually become,
0:44:36Which I think could be really interesting. I do not ever believe that they will replace
0:44:40what we consider to be our main devices. Smartphones and smartphone replacements will be a whole
0:44:46different thing and I don't believe that a wrist computer will do that. But it can be
0:44:51a very interesting and compelling secondary device and I really really like my Apple Watch
0:44:58for what it provides me on a daily basis. Which is like notifications, basic tasks,
0:45:03timers, all that kind of stuff, having a little computer on your body can be really useful.
0:45:08And it's not there yet, but with Siri and let's say AirPods, a cellular Apple Watch can be not
0:45:19maybe your primary device, but can do a whole lot potentially more than you might think in terms of
0:45:26just kind of wandering around and doing stuff. I agree, this is not, I didn't put it on my list
0:45:32because this is not a list of my,
0:45:36like the most, Apple products that have made the most impact
0:45:39on my life in the last five years,
0:45:41that would be a different list.
0:45:42And we gave, we talked about this in terms
0:45:44of the life changing product and the upgrade is last year.
0:45:47- Yeah, and I think my take on that is gonna become clear
0:45:52as we go on, I'm kind of in the same boat
0:45:54that this is the products I think are the best,
0:45:57not necessarily what's made the best impact on me
0:45:59because I think that they would be different.
0:46:02And we can talk about that as we go through it actually.
0:46:04So do you wanna go with your number four?
0:46:06- Yeah, it is AirPods, which I mentioned before.
0:46:11I think this product was maybe the origin
0:46:14of this entire thing, which is how great the AirPods are.
0:46:19And some people are like, "Oh, well, the AirPods are great."
0:46:21But think of all these other amazing products
0:46:23that Apple has done.
0:46:24But yeah, AirPods is a quintessential Apple product, right?
0:46:29It is this amazing thing that you kind of can't believe
0:46:32exists and it packs so much tech into such a small space.
0:46:36And I think it, not only do I love them
0:46:39and I did not expect to love them,
0:46:40but I think it's in many ways like the perfect example
0:46:45of what kind of products Apple is best at making.
0:46:48- So my number four is the iPad Pro 12.9 inch.
0:46:54And for me, I'm kind of like both of them.
0:46:58they're in the same here.
0:46:59I'm not really pulling out a specific model
0:47:02'cause they both kind of serve the same purpose.
0:47:04Because honestly, like the iPad Pro 12.9 inch
0:47:07is probably the Apple product
0:47:09that's made the biggest significant change in my life
0:47:11in the last five years.
0:47:12- Yeah, me too.
0:47:14- Because it was the product that upended
0:47:18how I think and use computers.
0:47:20Like that is wild that it did that.
0:47:24I was kind of, you know, throughout my history of the iPad,
0:47:27would go in and out. Sometimes I didn't use them for long periods of time,
0:47:31sometimes I had like bursts of time where I used them, but from the day the
0:47:3512.9 inch iPad Pro came out to today, the iPad has been my most consistent computer
0:47:41device and I think that the 12.9 inch iPad allowed Apple to think about the
0:47:47iPad differently, it allowed customers to think about the iPad differently as a
0:47:51device. Whatever it was, going to a basically a 13 inch screen allowed
0:47:56people to seriously think about an iPad as a device to do work on and I think that the
0:48:02significance of this product will continue into the future as like this was a turning
0:48:07point for computing like that that one specific iPad the iPad Pro the big iPad Pro will be
0:48:14I believe considered a big turning point.
0:48:17Yeah, it's not the what's funny about it is it's not the product for everyone right? It
0:48:21not the mainstream product, but it's the one that has the most impact on me personally.
0:48:28And so even though I just said this isn't a personal list, like, I think it's a big
0:48:31— I'm going to mention it later, but the thing that ticked it over for me is that I
0:48:38— even though it's not for everyone and the 10.5 is more for everyone than the 12.9,
0:48:46what makes me put it on the list is that it's a large iOS device, and I think there are
0:48:50going to be more. I think that pushing iOS forward into new places, including things
0:48:56like laptops or desktops, like bigger screens, is the future of iOS. I think that Apple will
0:49:03go there eventually. And so that's one of the—making an iOS—the first iOS device
0:49:09to be kind of in the space where a computer belongs is why I put it on my list, too. So
0:49:15we'll get there.
0:49:16What's your number three?
0:49:17- I decided that I was gonna put the iMac Pro on my list.
0:49:24The one I'm sitting in front of right now.
0:49:26I, for many reasons, it's a really good computer.
0:49:31Like, Stephen Hackett and I talk about this now
0:49:34and I hear Marco talk about it every now and then
0:49:36and like, I see other people talk about their iMac Pros.
0:49:39It's like, it's been a little while now.
0:49:41It's really good.
0:49:42It's fast.
0:49:43First off, I love the 5K iMac
0:49:44and I would have said the 5K iMac were it not for the MacBook Pro or the iMac Pro.
0:49:48Um, because I love that.
0:49:51I love the screen and it's a great machine to work on.
0:49:55And then the iMac Pro does all of that and has this incredible power that
0:50:00even the powerful 5K iMac didn't have.
0:50:02And I know it's, it's pricey, but it's a heck of a computer.
0:50:06And it also represents Apple paying attention to pro level needs and pro
0:50:14level hardware, which hopefully is a beginning of this kind of Renaissance that will continue
0:50:19with the Mac Pro. And I wanted to make sure that I had some Macs on my list. So that's
0:50:24another reason that I put it here, but I love it. I keep loving it more the more I use it.
0:50:30It's funny, you have that buyer's remorse moment where you spend $5,000 in computer
0:50:35and think, "Should I have done that?" And I don't have that anymore at all. Like that
0:50:41evaporated quickly and has not returned because it's pretty great.
0:50:45I had to really spend some time thinking about my number five, whether it was going to be
0:50:49the Apple Watch or the 5K iMac.
0:50:54Which would have been a great pick.
0:50:55And the 5K iMac is awesome. I love my iMac.
0:50:58It is.
0:50:59But a product that I choose to put on every day and that many people choose to put on
0:51:03their bodies every day, I don't know, it kind of felt like it just maybe a bit more different
0:51:08to me.
0:51:09That's fair.
0:51:10the last five years the Apple watch was a brand new product category whilst the 5k iMac was a
0:51:16very good advancement of an existing thing so that was why I kind of considered it maybe to be a
0:51:22little bit more important in the grand scheme but I will you know whilst I've never used an iMac Pro
0:51:27and probably I don't expect will I can definitely say that like the iMac line that ended up leading
0:51:33to the iMac Pro is a just a fantastic computer more computer than I need which is it's already
0:51:39saying something considering there's something even more powerful out there.
0:51:44I'm going to go with AirPods for my number three.
0:51:46There you go.
0:51:47Purely because they are, you know when people say like you said it right, they are like
0:51:52this this quintessential Apple product and for me it is the of course factor when you
0:51:57use them.
0:51:58It's like of course, of course this is what headphones should be.
0:52:03Of course like they are independent little things that you keep in a tiny case so they
0:52:07They stay away from lint or whatever in your pocket and they don't get tangled up.
0:52:13You don't have to spend five minutes untangling the cord before you start listening to your
0:52:16music and all you do is just pop them in your ears and most of the time, depending on how
0:52:22you use them and how many devices, it's just ready to go immediately.
0:52:25Or like, okay, you're playing something on your iPhone through the speaker whilst you're
0:52:28getting ready to leave the house.
0:52:30You put your AirPods in and then the audio transfers over onto your AirPods and you just
0:52:35put your phone in your pocket.
0:52:36There are so many of course moments with the AirPods, like for example, that the battery
0:52:42basically never dies because you charge them pretty infrequently.
0:52:46I mean I've never had a battery die on mine, because it just never gets to that point.
0:52:52Like at some point between those two charges, I've just decided to plug it in again for
0:52:56no particular reason really because the battery lasts a really long time on these things.
0:53:02It is a great product and I think will only continue to get better especially when the
0:53:06case gets Qi charging because you then like all you do is just put it down.
0:53:10You never even have to think about plugging a lightning cable in anymore, right?
0:53:13Like they become even more of course as time goes on and as a 1.0 product there is very
0:53:21little wrong with them.
0:53:22Like really there's kind of nothing wrong.
0:53:26I mean, I have one thing that I want, which is like more fine gesture control, but that's
0:53:32it, right? Like they are an incredibly good 1.0 in a quintessentially Apple style. The
0:53:39AirPods are a fantastic product. And if you're skeptical of them, I recommend if you have
0:53:45the means to just give them a try because I think they make fans of users very quickly.
0:53:51Yeah, and I was not expecting to like them as much as I do because I'm finicky about
0:53:58headphones and they're great. They're great.
0:54:00What is your number two?
0:54:02My number two is the iPad Pro 12.9, which we already talked about, so we don't need
0:54:07to talk about it again, but it has dramatically changed how I work and I like how it points
0:54:11to the future for what's possible with iOS. Do you have an iPad Pro you'd like to talk
0:54:15about now, Myke?
0:54:16Yeah the 10.5 inch. It is not the iPad Pro that I use every day, it is the iPad Pro I
0:54:21use when I travel. But the 10.5 inch iPad Pro is the closest thing to a perfect iPad
0:54:26that Apple have ever made. Because the 12.9 is great for people that are sitting and using
0:54:32their devices all day every day. But the 10.5 gets close enough in so many areas. You know
0:54:38like it is a just good big enough screen and the screen is fantastic. And it's thin and
0:54:46light and very portable and very powerful. It is so much better than the 9.7" iPads
0:54:55and not that much worse than the 12.9". I really think of it as like, this is the best
0:55:03iPad and I think that it makes fans of lots of people and the 10.5 still sits in the place
0:55:10of entertainment and people that want to do a little bit of work and stuff on their iPads
0:55:16because the 12.9 is difficult to deal with at times because it is a big thing and it's
0:55:23heavy for a mobile computing device. So the 10.5 is basically nothing. When you pick it
0:55:32up, you can, you know.
0:55:33My wife has the 10.5 and every now and then I pick it up. I pick it up to move it somewhere
0:55:38or whatever and it's so light. It's gotten to the point now where I pick it up and I
0:55:43I think maybe next time I should really consider the 10.5 because it's got all the power of
0:55:48the 12.9 and just the smaller screen and maybe it would be enough for me. Do I really use
0:55:52the screen in split screen with a bunch of apps moving around enough to make it worth
0:55:58the weight of the 12.9? And the answer is probably yes, but every time I pick it up
0:56:03I think about it.
0:56:06It is an absolutely wonderful machine. And I think we go into our number one and it's
0:56:10pretty obvious where we're gonna go because neither of us have spoken about an iPhone
0:56:15yet, right? So I feel like you've got, you know, the iPhone is the product and what is
0:56:20the best iPhone of the last five years? The most recent one, right? It's probably the
0:56:25way that it tends to go with this stuff. And we're both going with the iPhone X for what
0:56:31we consider to be the best product that Apple's made in the last five years. And I'm intrigued,
0:56:35Jason, to understand why you feel that way.
0:56:37Well, I mean, a lot of what I said for the AirPods actually goes for the iPhone X. It's
0:56:43got a bunch of new tech in it. The new tech in it, we all lifted our eyebrows and said,
0:56:47"Is it really going to work?" And it really works. Like, it really works. Face ID works.
0:56:55The OLED screen is beautiful. As a non-Plus user, the dual cameras on the back and the
0:57:01quality of that camera is spectacular, the front-facing camera is good. I love it. I
0:57:09think it's great. It is my favorite iPhone. It's so good. And the fact that we all kind
0:57:14of looked at the possibilities and the specs and were like, "Wow, this is a really weird
0:57:18decision on their part to do this and bifurcate the line," and all of the things that they
0:57:22did, and they nailed it. And I like to see that kind of execution from Apple that says
0:57:29something when they took their most important product and really challenged
0:57:33themselves in terms of the technology and they stuck the landing.
0:57:36I consider technology impressive when multiple months after using it every
0:57:42single day there are still times where I pick it up and I'm like wow look at you
0:57:46and I still get that with the iPhone 10 you know I'm just like look at this
0:57:52thing like it is beautiful and it does wonderful things and smart things and it
0:57:57it has technology that I couldn't have expected. It is just a superb Apple-y design thing.
0:58:06They really have made the best possible iPhone in a way that I'm so intrigued to see what
0:58:13comes next from it. Because this was such a big jump based upon what iPhones have been
0:58:17previously and there's a lot of technology in here which is Apple's first attempt at
0:58:22doing it and I'm really really intrigued to see what this year's iPhone lineup looks like
0:58:27I've been thinking a lot about what a bigger iPhone X could be and I'm very very intrigued
0:58:35and excited about the prospect of an even bigger version of this which I know is a me
0:58:41thing and it's not a you thing and I get that but the idea of what is version 2 of this
0:58:47even I'm really really intrigued to see what the iPhone 11 or whatever it's going to be
0:58:53ends up looking like.
0:58:56So we've been, like this list is really heavy on iOS devices from both of us, you know,
0:59:00all things in the iOS ecosystem.
0:59:03I don't know, I mean I've got two Macs, a desktop and a laptop, I've got an iPhone and
0:59:07an iPad, and then I've got an accessory.
0:59:10I feel pretty good about the spread of mine.
0:59:12Fair enough.
0:59:13And you, I'm not surprised for you that it tilts toward iOS, that makes sense.
0:59:17And also, you know, my thinking is that's where the majority of Apple's product focus
0:59:21has been, right?
0:59:22Like, that's kind of where that goes to.
0:59:25So if that's where they're put in most of their efforts, it's probably where a lot of
0:59:29the most exciting stuff is going to be.
0:59:31So yeah, that was a fun exercise.
0:59:32I'm keen to know from our Upgradients what they think of our lists and what their lists
0:59:37are as well.
0:59:38You can send them to us over Twitter and be interested to see what people think.
0:59:43Today's show is brought to you by Eero.
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1:00:39So you have the one Eero main device and then you take the beacons and the beacons can be
1:00:43just plug straight into the wall and they will expand the coverage throughout your home.
1:00:49You can have as many Eero beacons as you want so long as you have the one main device and
1:00:53they even include a built in LED nightlight with ambient light sensor. The Eero app lets
1:01:00you manage your network from the palm of your hand and you can also easily create and share
1:01:04a guest network too. I'm wondering Jason, do you use the Eero app? I know that you have
1:01:09aero devices at home and I wonder kind of what information you get from it.
1:01:13I mostly just use it to do administrative stuff like do the software updates or do a
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1:01:32I like the idea of not having to get up and go and flick some switches to restart the
1:01:36the Hero, right? Because like, I don't have any Hero here because I'm in the UK and they're
1:01:40in the US and Canada right now. And if I have a problem, I have to like leave the office
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1:01:49That's not good. I want to do it from an app instead. The Hero system starts at $399 for
1:01:54a second gen Hero and two beacons, which should be everything that you need to get started.
1:01:59But the Hero system is flexible and you can expand and contract as you need to. Listeners
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1:02:07that is Eero.com and use the promo code upgrade that is Eero.com with the promo code upgrade
1:02:14for free overnight shipping. Our thanks to Eero for their support of this show. So it's
1:02:20already started in the chat room and I've just realized like how many questions we're
1:02:24going to get about like why not this one. So I want to just address the first one. Pura
1:02:30for
1:02:46think about the iPad Pro, I personally think about with the smart keyboard and
1:02:51the Apple pencil but I don't want to dictate that on top of people. But for me
1:02:55the iPad Pro is all three of those things together as like a system. So
1:03:00that's kind of my thought on that but I didn't want to prescribe that to
1:03:04everybody. Should we do some Ask Upgrades, Jason? Let's do it! Our first question
1:03:09comes from Francois. Francois says "I'm stumped. How can I save files locally to
1:03:15the files app without having a third party document provider installed. Surely this should
1:03:21be possible. I think you can from the share sheet you can save to your iPad and you can
1:03:29also save to iCloud and I know that iCloud this frustrates me because you should have
1:03:36more access to on my iPad I think is what they call it or on my iPhone in files because
1:03:42that the difference there is what you're saying is save this in a place that I can get to
1:03:47it but don't sync it over the internet. I don't need this in iCloud, I just need it
1:03:52saved on my device for later. Some apps are better than others at doing that, but you
1:03:57can also save it to iCloud and iCloud Drive is also your local file system.
1:04:04David Pembroke You can save locally to the iPad if the application
1:04:07that you're using has a container folder that it sets up, but not all apps do this. Some
1:04:12Some apps will do this in iCloud drive or some apps just won't do this at all.
1:04:17But obviously I don't know what your connection situation is like and maybe you're tethering
1:04:23or whatever so don't want things syncing.
1:04:25But if you do have no problem about that, my advice is to basically just think of iCloud
1:04:30as the local file system and just save everything there.
1:04:33That's what I do.
1:04:34If I have something I don't need to go into Dropbox, like I'm just maybe taking something
1:04:39and doing something to it and sending it somewhere else, I just save it into iCloud Drive as
1:04:43basically the local file system.
1:04:45But yeah, it would be great if you could save things directly to the iPad itself without
1:04:50needing to have these container folders.
1:04:52Let me set up my own file structure in there which you cannot do right now.
1:04:56James wants to know, "Why wouldn't or hasn't Apple bought a cellular network like Verizon
1:05:02or AT&T?
1:05:04Surely there'd be many benefits for iPhone buyers and it seems characteristic of Tim
1:05:08Cook's Apple. Jason, what are the problems with Apple maybe trying to buy a cellular
1:05:13network that may have stopped them from doing that so far?
1:05:16I mean, number one is that it closes them off from presumably from all the other cellular
1:05:22networks who they're now competing with.
1:05:23Yep.
1:05:24And the also it would be in the it would be a US only play. Are they going to do this
1:05:30in other countries too? Can they can they run a cellular network better than the existing
1:05:35maybe? Is that in their core competency? Probably not. I think Apple likes having-- I get what this is about, it's what you can control, but I think Apple in this case likes the fact that it's got multiple players. I think if there was one dominant cellular carrier and they were putting the squeeze on Apple and Apple felt like that carrier was or could potentially
1:06:04actually threaten Apple's business. I think they might behave differently, but as it is,
1:06:11you know, there's competition to a certain degree in the US in terms of the providers,
1:06:17and that works for Apple. That works in Apple's favor because they all want Apple stuff and
1:06:21they're all going to play ball with Apple because they all, you know, nobody wants to
1:06:24be the carrier that doesn't have the iPhone. It's very popular and Apple's customers are
1:06:29people with money and are willing to pay for data and use a lot of data and all of these
1:06:34are reasons. So I think they don't need to buy anything.
1:06:37I don't think Apple has anything but great relationships with these phone networks.
1:06:42I think yes, I think it's a mutually beneficial partnership, right? Like Apple customers are
1:06:49great customers for these companies. And that means that Apple gets to do what it wants
1:06:55to do. We're never going back to the days where they've got to put junk on phones and
1:07:00put silk screens of the carrier label on the back of the phone or the front of the phone.
1:07:06Apple's never going to have to do any of that stuff. They broke that. Everybody wants Apple
1:07:12and Apple benefits from that and I think it's going to be fine. I don't see any benefit
1:07:17in getting in the mire there. Plus, even if they did that and even if it got approved
1:07:22by regulators, that would be for the US, then what do they do for the rest of the world?
1:07:25So I just don't, I don't think it's necessary. And it's way too complicated.
1:07:29And you jumped over a point that I think is super important. I don't think any regulatory
1:07:32body in the world would permit this sale. Like, probably no one, no one is going to
1:07:37let Apple restrict the market like that lobbying groups for the other cell carriers would just
1:07:44have would go wild, they're going to overdrive. Theo has a question which is good relate to
1:07:49to our iPad topic from earlier on when we were talking about the differences between
1:07:52the 10.5 and 12.9. How do you feel about multitasking in split view compared to the 10.5 inch iPad
1:07:59Pro vs the 12.9? Doesn't the 12.9 inch have two full iPad apps and the 10.5 have two iPhone
1:08:06apps? Okay so there's a bit of a yes and no in this. The 10.5 inch has two apps side by
1:08:14by side which sometimes look like iPhone apps, it depends on how the app has been developed,
1:08:19depending on what view sizes it has, what are they called, the screen size things, compact
1:08:25mode and stuff like that, I don't remember the actual term from the top of my head, but
1:08:30the size classes, that's the one. So there are a bunch of different size classes and
1:08:34sometimes you get something that's smaller than others but honestly, in using both of
1:08:39them. After a little while, it actually kind of doesn't really matter that much because
1:08:44two iPhone apps side by side in a lot of cases is perfectly fine, even if that's what it
1:08:49is. It works really well. I've worked for very long stretches, like an entire month
1:08:54where I moved from the 12.9 to the 10.5 when I was in America last year. You get used to
1:09:01it really quickly because it still works very, very well.
1:09:03And the most common use case I have on the 12.9 is to have a second app open. I mean,
1:09:09the most common use is that I don't use multitasking. Like that's the most commonly I'm still not
1:09:13using it all the time. When I do use it, my most common use case is to have an app in
1:09:18the narrow view on the side, not to split side by side.
1:09:22>> It's like the third and two thirds or something.
1:09:25>> Yeah, yeah. It's like a little sidekick buddy app that is living over there. And so,
1:09:31you know, it's an iPhone app at that point. And the other one still has lots of space,
1:09:35is really nice. And on the modern, you know, iPad Pros, the latest generation, you can
1:09:39also have a slide over app that runs and it's great, right? Like you slide over some too.
1:09:44But mostly it's that two thirds, one third or whatever. And, uh, and so yeah, one of
1:09:49them is already in kind of like mini view mode and that's okay. It's, it's fine. Like
1:09:53I think you give something up, um, for sure, but I think it's fair to say that maybe it's,
1:09:59it shouldn't be overstated. You do give something up, but it's not like the multitasking goes
1:10:03from great to garbage when you go from 12 9 to 10 5 because that's not true.
1:10:08You still get the ability to have three apps on screen.
1:10:11That would be one thing.
1:10:12Exactly.
1:10:13They take away one.
1:10:14But no, it isn't that.
1:10:15There are trade-offs, but there are trade-offs on both sides.
1:10:18You still get very competent multitasking in a much smaller device.
1:10:24There are benefits.
1:10:26Bozi asks, "Does an SSD have any significant benefits to a non-power user over a fusion
1:10:32drive?
1:10:33plan to follow Jason's previous advice about maximizing the RAM in my future Retina 5K
1:10:38iMac, but I haven't yet decided on the internal drive.
1:10:43You know, Fusion Drive, first off, the big question is, Fusion Drive or not? And the
1:10:48answer is yes. Yes, get the Fusion Drive, because SSDs are so much faster than spinning
1:10:55disks and the Fusion Drive, that's the whole premise of it, is how do we make something
1:10:58that's not as expensive as a pure SSD, but still lets the files you use most of the time
1:11:05move quickly because they're kind of cached on the SSD rather than living on the spinning
1:11:13disk. So that's the first thing. For a regular user, Fusion Drive might be enough, although
1:11:19I have not used a Fusion Drive system enough to have explored, like, when it breaks down,
1:11:27when you suddenly are like, "Oh boy, this is slow," because it's a big file or whatever
1:11:32and it's not on the SSD portion, it's on the spinning disk portion. Ideally, you would
1:11:41always feel like you're using an SSD, and then in the background stuff's getting moved
1:11:44back and forth across the devices. The real significant benefit is that SSDs aren't going
1:11:54to die like Fusion Drives, which is not to say that SSDs don't have a lifespan, but spinning
1:12:01disks crash, spinning disks break. They are a fundamentally unreliable technology and
1:12:06you might skate away for one year or two years or four years or five years, but it will die,
1:12:12guaranteed. And SSDs don't really, certainly not in the way that spinning disks do. And
1:12:21for me, I'm going to prioritize SSD because it's a hundred percent speed, not speed except
1:12:29when the fusion drive software system lets you down and the reliability issue is there.
1:12:35But you know fusion drive that's the nice thing about fusion drive existing is Apple is trying to
1:12:39make the speed of SSD more affordable for people who don't want to spend on the pure SSD.
1:12:43And Michael asked if you've never owned a smartwatch would you buy an Apple watch series
1:12:503 today or wait until the next release? And I'm assuming Michael is asking for us to make
1:12:55make a recommendation for them about that. So what do you think, Jason?
1:13:02I don't have a good answer here. I mean, I guess if the question is, "Should I wait because
1:13:11the next watch is going to be totally different?" I have a hard time believing that if Apple
1:13:16does a major revision to the software that it's not going to run on the Series 3, right?
1:13:21Like that's not going to happen. It's possible that Apple will redesign the hardware and
1:13:25that the bands might not be compatible, that might happen at some point, and that would
1:13:28be sad if they come up with a totally new-looking Apple Watch in the fall and you're on the
1:13:32older model. But I think the older models are good, they're solid, and that the most
1:13:37of the progression that needs to happen on that platform is the OS and enabling third-party
1:13:43apps too. It's not the hardware. We've said it before, the hardware is great. The software
1:13:47needs work. So I don't think waiting is gonna buy you much. I mean it'll buy you
1:13:54something because there's always a new model with new stuff in it but like the
1:13:58place where you're going to see the biggest improvement is on the
1:14:01software side I think. So it comes down to a personal decision which is can you
1:14:06wait?
1:14:07Can you bear to wait? Because there will almost certainly be a new Apple Watch
1:14:10this fall and if you can wait, you've waited this long,
1:14:13Can you wait further? If you can, you can get the latest and greatest for probably
1:14:17the same price that you pay for the Apple Watch Series 3 right now. Or if you
1:14:23really, really want it and you've waited long enough, then go ahead and buy it
1:14:26because I think that it's going to serve you well and you will, you know, you will
1:14:30have been... you will get that thing that you wanted. So I could go either way.
1:14:35Really, not to be wishy-washy about it, but I do think it comes down to that. That
1:14:40it really is like can you wait or not because I don't think you will be, I'm not waving
1:14:45you off from buying an Apple Watch today. Like I think it would be fine if you bought
1:14:49one today. But if you can wait because you've waited this long then you know there will
1:14:55be another Apple Watch.
1:14:57All right if you want to send in a question for us to answer at the end of the show you
1:15:02can send in a tweet with the hashtag #AskUpgrade and they get collected into a document so
1:15:06you can have your questions answered by me and Jason at the end of every episode.
1:15:11I want to thank everyone that has sent in submissions for Ask Upgrade and Snail Talk.
1:15:16We love those submissions every single week.
1:15:19Our thanks again to Eero, Squarespace and Freshbooks for supporting the show.
1:15:24If you want to find Jason online, you can go to SixColors.com.
1:15:28He is @JSNEL on Twitter and Jason hosts a selection of shows at TheIncomparable.com
1:15:33and here at Relay.fm.
1:15:35me I host many shows at Relay FM and you can find them at relay.fm/shows
1:15:40I am @imike_I-M-Y-K-E on Twitter and we'll be back next week with another
1:15:46episode of Upgrade. Until then, say goodbye Jason Snow.
1:15:51Show over man, show over!
1:15:55[ Music ]