176: Final Cat Pro


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00:00:08   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 176.

00:00:12   Today's show is brought to you by Squarespace, Anchor, and SaneBox.

00:00:17   My name is Myke Hurley, and I am joined by Mr. Jason Snell.

00:00:20   Hello, Jason Snell.

00:00:22   >> Hello, Myke Hurley.

00:00:22   You know, 175, I don't think we even made a big thing of it.

00:00:25   That was a pretty good number last week, but we just blew on past it.

00:00:27   I guess onward to 200.

00:00:29   176 is even nicer because it's one more.

00:00:31   - Okay, sure.

00:00:33   This is the highest number we have ever done.

00:00:36   - That we've ever done.

00:00:38   That is quite a thing to remark upon.

00:00:39   Our Snell Talk question,

00:00:41   our hashtag Snell Talk question this week

00:00:43   comes from friend of the show, Mr. Todd Visserie.

00:00:46   And Todd asks, "Jason, if you are restricted

00:00:50   "to only one Star Wars film for the rest of your life,

00:00:55   "which one would it be, and you can take into account

00:00:58   theatrical and/or special edition for this. So you have to pick a specific movie and if

00:01:04   there are different versions you can pick within that version if you would like to.

00:01:08   Well the good news is this is an easier answer than you would think because I'm a Star Trek fan.

00:01:18   No no it's Star Wars Jason! Star War!

00:01:25   I grew up in, you know, I was born in 1970, so I grew up in the 70s and it's impossible to be a

00:01:32   six, seven, eight year old kid, uh, when star Wars comes out and not be conversant in and a fan of

00:01:39   star Wars. Just it's, it was for those who were younger than me, it was impossible. Like for those

00:01:44   who don't remember life without star Wars being around, trust me, there was that moment when you're

00:01:49   a kid and Star Wars happens and that whole generation is just, I mean, Star Wars is written

00:01:55   on my generation essentially. But I, anyway, I would pick the Empire Strikes Back and I would

00:02:04   pick the theatrical edition, which is of course not available on home video unless the harmies

00:02:11   the specialized edition falls off the back of a truck. And yeah, that one, the Empire Strikes Back,

00:02:18   for various reasons that we don't have to get into here, but you know, short version is,

00:02:22   I like the original Star Wars and the Empire Strikes Back kind of equally, but there's more

00:02:28   to the Empire Strikes Back. It jumps straight into the story because we don't have to introduce

00:02:33   all the characters. It's more of a movie than the original Star Wars is, as much as I love

00:02:44   love the original Star Wars so I would go with Empire Strikes Back.

00:02:47   I don't know if I've ever shared this controversial opinion of mine on a podcast before but I'm

00:02:51   going to. The original Star Wars A New Hope I actually find in places to be quite boring

00:02:59   compared to the other movies. Like I watched the original one and I'm like "oh this is

00:03:05   very slow". I hear that well I mean I think there's truth

00:03:10   to that when I say that the you know it has to establish everything right and so you've

00:03:17   got a lot of parts that are art it's taking its time also it's not a worldwide phenomenon

00:03:24   yet and there's only so much money they can spend and so you know there's like let's just

00:03:28   have the robots walk in the desert for a while yeah and stuff like that and yeah so it's

00:03:33   a different it's a different thing and I do I do love it for a lot of reasons also the

00:03:36   other thing about Star Wars, the original Star Wars, is that it's, I mean, pro or con

00:03:46   is that it's a very simple film, if you think about the plot of it, to the point where I

00:03:50   was talking to my wife about this, like, she would always have trouble remembering what

00:03:54   happened in the original Star Wars. Because you get the feeling like, okay, well, so they

00:03:59   meet up and blow up the Death Star and what else happens in that movie? And the answer

00:04:04   is "Nope, that's it. That's all that happens in that movie." It ends and you're like, "That's

00:04:09   it? That's the end?" It's like, "Yeah, that's it. That's all that happens in this one."

00:04:12   And that can be seen as a positive or a negative. It's definitely not overstuffed, but despite my

00:04:19   love of that one and the nostalgia about that one, Empire Strikes Back made when they no longer had

00:04:25   to worry about justifying their budget and they could pack a lot more stuff in and they had more

00:04:31   ability to do special effects and there's just so many reasons why and I think the script is just

00:04:36   really good. I think the dialogue is great. There's just there's a lot in there. The fact that that I

00:04:43   can watch that now and notice things that I've never noticed before says a lot about that that

00:04:46   film so I pick that one. And maybe for the first time ever I have a secondary snow talk question

00:04:53   related to the first which comes from Joe Steele because Joe asked in reply to Todd's question,

00:04:59   Jason, how cruel is Todd's question?

00:05:01   It's not so bad because I'm not John Syracuse or I'm not Dan Morin. Star Wars is not... I like

00:05:14   Star Wars a lot but I would never put Star Wars fandom at the top of my fandom list and I think

00:05:21   I'm pretty sure it's at the top of Dan's and John's fandom and as a result I could get by

00:05:25   watching only one Star Wars film ever. I would prefer not to, but I could get by because

00:05:29   there's a bunch of other stuff that I love too. So that's, that's, it's not so bad.

00:05:36   So thank you so much to Todd and Joe for their #SNELTalk questions. If you have a question

00:05:41   visual effects industry for sending us questions. If you are in the visual effects industry

00:05:48   or not, it's not important. You can send in a question to open the show with the #SNELTalk.

00:05:55   You got me there Jason Snell, I've got to get through this.

00:05:57   #SnellTalk to get your question in for the beginning of the show.

00:06:02   And we move into follow up.

00:06:03   Last week we had a Ask Upgrade question asking why do Final Cut Pro and Logic not offer free

00:06:12   trials?

00:06:14   And we made, we had a discussion about it, we spoke about the constraints of the App

00:06:18   Store, etc, etc.

00:06:20   We had pointed out to us by many people, but somebody on Twitter via the name @Klesias

00:06:26   was the first to point out that Apple does indeed very peculiarly offer a trial for Final

00:06:33   Cup Pro which is a direct download from Apple's website.

00:06:38   You have to enter in a bunch of information.

00:06:39   30 day free trial.

00:06:40   And you get a 30 day free trial.

00:06:43   And honestly...

00:06:44   That's so, so old school Apple.

00:06:47   Like I can't believe...

00:06:48   I knew that they did this, I just kind of assumed that they didn't do it anymore because

00:06:53   it's so unlike what Apple's current policies are, but obviously somebody's like, "Look,

00:06:58   there's no way we're going to make a go of it with Final Cut if we can't offer a demo,

00:07:02   so let's offer a 30-day trial." So Final Cut has one, logic doesn't, but Final Cut does.

00:07:08   Final Cut does.

00:07:09   I like Final Cat.

00:07:10   Final Cat. Who is the Final Cat? I don't know, but he's a pro.

00:07:15   Wait, what was the last cat name of OS X? That's the final cat. That's Final Cat Pro.

00:07:24   So is that Mountain Lion?

00:07:25   Mountain Lion, yeah, I think that was it. So yeah, you can get it. I'm concerned now

00:07:33   that there are people inside of Apple that don't notice exists and then next week this

00:07:37   page mysteriously disappears because we've mentioned it.

00:07:40   Oh no.

00:07:41   Can you imagine?

00:07:42   You saw nothing. We were never here. You saw nothing. I would say instead, hey, those people

00:07:47   who are listening, Logic Pro trial, please.

00:07:50   Yeah. There was also Matthew pointed out, this is a really good piece of follow up as

00:07:56   well, that you can actually get Logic and Final Cut for $200 of part of Apple's education

00:08:03   bundle, which you buy this on Apple's website, and then they send you a bunch of codes that

00:08:09   redeem on the Mac App Store and it includes Final Cut Pro, Logic Pro, Motion 5, Compressor

00:08:14   4, and Main Stage 3. So that's for $200. I'm sure that you're supposed to be in education,

00:08:22   but it doesn't look like they have any way that you need to prove it. So go at it. $200,

00:08:30   you get all of it. Maybe you do have to prove at some point, but then if you are in education,

00:08:34   this is a great deal for you.

00:08:35   education? Do you have a student in your house? Have you been educated before?

00:08:39   Would you like to learn something that is related to these applications? So yeah,

00:08:44   you can go and you can get that and $200 is a fantastic deal for those

00:08:49   applications. So if that is a thing that you can do then great you should go for

00:08:53   it because that's worth it. So we have this is one of those follow-up things

00:08:58   that we have heard from a bunch this week and thank you to everybody who took

00:09:03   the time to write in to let us know. You can stop telling us now.

00:09:08   We also spoke about our Snell Talk question last week as I asked you if you used the dark

00:09:14   mode in inverted commas on Mac OS. You said no because there was no dark mode. It's just

00:09:20   a menu bar. So Jordan sent in to us a link to a Medium post from a friend of the show,

00:09:26   Guillaume Rambaud, who is @_inside on Twitter, who's a really excellent person to follow

00:09:32   on Twitter. If you don't, you should because they've, like Steve Trout and Smith, find

00:09:37   a bunch of like just fascinating things from digging inside of code on iOS and Mac OS.

00:09:45   And one of the things that Rabo found was a code and mention and UI elements for entire

00:09:54   dark themes for basically every piece of Apple Chrome inside of Mac OS. It is also possible

00:10:01   to enable this but I would probably suggest that you don't but it's possible to do so I think that

00:10:08   this shows that this either is or was being worked on. Yeah I think was is probably the case I think

00:10:17   this goes back to like El Capitan at least I remember when this came out the idea was that

00:10:25   we thought we were going to get a dark mode instead it was the dark menu bar it turned out there were

00:10:29   bits of dark mode in the system, but it wasn't ever put through

00:10:35   and never touched upon later.

00:10:37   So that was the source of some of my grumpiness last week about the fact

00:10:40   that there isn't a dark mode is that we know that the work was done, but what

00:10:45   we got was a dark doc and menu bar.

00:10:48   And like I said, I don't think that's enough.

00:10:50   Um, You know, my example was like, you open a, a safari favorites list and it,

00:10:56   you know, for a new page and it's just a white screen and maybe in dark mode that would be a

00:11:00   black screen with white text, but no, it's not. So yeah, it's there. Maybe they'll revisit this

00:11:07   sometime, although I feel like not very optimistic about it given the fact that they went

00:11:12   pretty far down that path and then decided not to ship it.

00:11:16   So we now have more media news to talk about. So before we do, I want to take a slight sidebar.

00:11:25   Since I have started to want to include this into this show because I think it's important

00:11:31   And I know that I don't hear this type of discussion on any other Apple show that I listen to

00:11:37   But I think we both agree that this is clearly an important thing for Apple. So therefore warrants discussion on this show

00:11:44   Since we had decided to start doing this

00:11:47   Basically every week or every two weeks there has been some news of some description

00:11:51   So, I think that this now warrants its own segment name, but I can't think of one.

00:11:58   So upgradeions, tweet to me and give me suggestions for what we can call this media segment.

00:12:05   And I have a couple of rules here.

00:12:06   I don't want alliteration, so I don't want Myke's Media something.

00:12:11   That's not...

00:12:12   Like if you look, typically our segment names, already in the chat room we have alliteration

00:12:18   with my name. Myke's Media Menagerie as Kate has suggested. So that's the first and last

00:12:24   time you're going to hear that. Kate, it's a great suggestion. I just don't want it.

00:12:29   Because as you may know, our segment names, which we do have, they tend to be hashtags

00:12:34   or they tend to be just one words. That's kind of what I like for this stuff. You can

00:12:38   see it in the naming of basically every show that I'm on. I like things to be nice and

00:12:42   concise. If you have any suggestions, please send them to me. I'm @imike on Twitter.

00:12:52   Apple have signed yet more television shows.

00:13:06   was signed a straight to TV offer from a project by Steven Knight, creator of Peaky Blinders,

00:13:12   and Francis Lawrence, who is the director of some Hunger Games movies. This project

00:13:17   is called CSEE, and is described as, this is from Deadline, "an epic world-building

00:13:23   drama set in the future." This isn't the only future thing they've got, right? We were talking

00:13:30   about science fiction thing. The Ron Moore project is a science fiction project too,

00:13:36   This is also direct to series because Apple is not interested in seeing your pilot because

00:13:41   they don't have enough time to launch this, whatever this service is going to be with

00:13:47   the pilot development process. So they're taking the scripts and the pitch and they're

00:13:50   going straight to series eight episodes, make the eight episodes, you know, because that's

00:13:54   the other way TV development happens is they approve the script, they give you money to

00:13:58   shoot a sample episode called a pilot, and then they look at the pilot and they maybe

00:14:03   test it with audiences or the executives look at it and then they say yes or no. Apple's

00:14:09   just like, "Mm-mm. Here's your money. Eight episodes. Go."

00:14:14   - Just make it good. That's all we ask. Please just make it good. So I think it's clear that

00:14:20   they are working with people that have creds, right? Which is why they're picking specifically

00:14:25   because they're taking gambles on these. This will likely be eight episodes with one season

00:14:31   Order. This is now the fourth scripted show that Apple has ordered. We missed one over

00:14:37   the holiday break.

00:14:38   Oh yeah, okay, so there's Jennifer Aniston and Reese Witherspoon's morning show drama,

00:14:42   there is Ron Moore's alternate space race story where the space race continued past

00:14:47   the 60s and 70s, there's See, the world building drama set in the future, whatever that means.

00:14:54   like saying plot filled story world building drama but okay and uh... and

00:15:00   there is there is well there is the steven spielberg thing as well

00:15:03   oh there's amazing amazing stories that's also scripted so that's that's

00:15:06   that's like a reboot i think it i don't know if if deadline it's a it's a it's

00:15:10   a labor it's an anthology series okay so what else what else are we missing it is

00:15:14   called are you sleeping um it stars oscar winner octavia spencer and has

00:15:19   come from reece witherspoon's hello sunshine production company you may

00:15:23   remember this because the morning show drama also came from Witherspoon's Hello Sunshine

00:15:30   production company and she's starring in it. So I thought that was really interesting that

00:15:35   obviously there is a good relationship here because Apple have ordered two of the shows

00:15:39   that her company is working on. Deadline describes Are You Sleeping as a unique glimpse into

00:15:46   America's obsession with true crime podcasts and challenges its viewers to consider the

00:15:52   consequences when the pursuit of justice is placed on a public stage and even more interestingly

00:16:00   Sarah Koenig the creator of Serial is consulting on the series.

00:16:05   Yeah it's like sort of Serial the television series but sort of like the making of a podcast

00:16:12   like Serial. I like this premise like the idea of like we all seem to like these true

00:16:17   crimey type things but what happens when you put justice to the masses that's kind of the

00:16:22   way that I'm looking at this and I kind of like this. Like if you look at what was happening

00:16:28   during like season one of Serial, it seemed to get a little bit wild for some time.

00:16:35   Right.

00:16:36   Uh, and yeah, so I'm, I'm keen, I'm, I'm kind of keen to see how that plays out.

00:16:41   I'm definitely more interested in this show than in the sitcom about Alex from Gimlet

00:16:49   starring Zach Braff.

00:16:51   Yeah, that just doesn't look good, right?

00:16:54   I would be interested in it in the same way that I was interested in StartUp.

00:16:58   I liked StartUp the original season, but the show just doesn't look like a very high quality

00:17:04   comedy show.

00:17:08   So yeah, they're the ones that we missed.

00:17:09   But then there is also a documentary series called Home.

00:17:14   It is a 10 episode documentary series that takes viewers inside the world's most extraordinary

00:17:18   homes and unveils the boundary pushing imagination of the visionaries who dared to dream and

00:17:24   build them. I don't really have any opinion on that, but it is a documentary series. That

00:17:30   doesn't really seem to push my buttons very much, but that stuff exists, you know, like

00:17:34   these homie type shows.

00:17:35   Well, one of the things that they need to explore is other kinds of content, right?

00:17:39   Yes, definitely.

00:17:40   That is not scripted. And they've hired people who have history and scripted, but I think

00:17:43   they've also hired some people who have a history and unscripted, and they want to,

00:17:46   You know, you don't want, if you're Apple and you want to go out with this, you don't

00:17:49   want everything to be a sci-fi show.

00:17:51   You don't want everything to be the Reese Witherspoon and Jennifer Aniston show.

00:17:56   You want a kind of a variety so you can appeal to a bunch of different people.

00:18:00   And this is interesting because it's a docuseries.

00:18:03   So it's reality in a way, but it's really an unscripted, you know, it's unscripted in

00:18:09   that big thing.

00:18:10   It's not like a reality competition show or something like that, like Planet of the Apps

00:18:13   was.

00:18:14   It is a different kind of thing.

00:18:16   But they'll probably do more of that too because they wanted to have a pretty broad set of

00:18:22   offerings for whatever they launch.

00:18:24   And eventually movies as well, right?

00:18:28   There will be an offering.

00:18:29   I would imagine that that will come next, but it would not surprise me.

00:18:33   So just as I said last year that you will see announcements of names you recognize,

00:18:40   actors and also creators signing with Apple.

00:18:42   and Tim Goodman and I talked about this a lot

00:18:44   on the TV Talk Machine podcast every week.

00:18:46   You will, at some point at a film festival,

00:18:49   you will see Apple make a deal

00:18:51   to buy distribution rights for a film,

00:18:54   like Netflix does, like Amazon does.

00:18:56   You will see that, that's gonna happen.

00:18:58   I'm not sure that will happen for a while, it might,

00:19:02   but my guess is that they're gonna focus

00:19:05   on series development for now,

00:19:07   but I mean, movies is part of it,

00:19:09   and there are prestige reasons for that,

00:19:11   And they're also just sort of like filling out the, you know, filling out the content

00:19:16   catalog of whatever this service is going to be. So that it'll probably happen at some point.

00:19:20   So that's the end of our unnamed media segment for this episode.

00:19:26   Please send in your suggestions. I would like to hear them.

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00:21:09   All right, so it is January and January means wishlist time.

00:21:16   So we are going to do an iOS ecosystem wishlist, including hardware and software.

00:21:24   So dream time, dream time, everybody.

00:21:26   So we're going to break this down into hardware and then into talking about iOS 12.

00:21:31   And this was, uh, like many, many things in the show, so prompted from an article that

00:21:36   you wrote over at Mac world.

00:21:38   So let's break this down.

00:21:40   Let's start with the iPhone.

00:21:42   So what do we want from the iPhone?

00:21:44   More iPhones?

00:21:45   Is that what we want, Jason?

00:21:46   Do we want bigger iPhones?

00:21:47   Do we want smaller iPhones?

00:21:48   What do we want?

00:21:49   Well, I, um, yes.

00:21:53   my list I put in, I think the next step logically is to do an iPhone X Plus if they can manage

00:22:01   to get a bigger OLED screen because I think people have shown boundless enthusiasm for

00:22:07   larger phones and even though I've never been one of those people who's like "Oh, give me

00:22:11   that really big phone, I never really liked the iPhone Plus line," I know people do and

00:22:15   although the X is bigger, the X is a satisfying size for somebody like me, so logically it

00:22:21   would mean that if I'm a small phone person or at least a not big phone person and I like

00:22:27   the iPhone X, that probably means there's room for a larger model that other people

00:22:32   will like that perhaps even you. So I feel like on that side there should probably be

00:22:39   -- and I want to see the iPhone SE get an update because it's been a couple of years

00:22:43   and I think it's time -- but those are sort of like the edges of iPhone hardware where

00:22:47   I think that we could see some progression.

00:22:50   And otherwise with the iPhone 8,

00:22:53   I think it's a real question of like,

00:22:55   will there be an iPhone 8S or maybe just an iPhone 9

00:22:59   that sort of like is the last of the classic iPhone?

00:23:04   Probably, maybe, maybe that's the one that's been rumored.

00:23:08   That's got no OLED screen, but does have face ID

00:23:11   and doesn't have a button anymore for touch ID

00:23:15   or something like that.

00:23:16   I don't know or whether it's simply a faster version of the 8 and doesn't add all those

00:23:21   fancy sensors and stuff like that.

00:23:24   But that's not on my wish list, I'm just kind of curious about that.

00:23:27   I think an SE revision, because there are people who like the small phone, it is popular

00:23:31   and it's great at holding down the lower end of the iPhone price list.

00:23:36   It's a good product to have.

00:23:39   Like the Mac Mini, it is one of these things that's like, it's good to have it around,

00:23:42   I think.

00:23:43   though it's never going to be everybody's favorite, it's going to have a group of people

00:23:48   who like it, it's never going to be your number one seller, but it's good to have it there.

00:23:52   But I'm curious, are you intrigued by the idea of an iPhone X Plus?

00:23:57   If it has the same features as the iPhone X regular size, yes.

00:24:02   Sure. I mean, maybe it'll have like three cameras on the back, Myke. I don't know.

00:24:07   It's not going to happen with a Plus model. So a couple of weeks ago on Connected, we

00:24:12   did our like predictions for the year and one of my predictions is that there

00:24:17   will be a plus-size phone iPhone 10 phone but it won't have an OLED and oh

00:24:23   interesting that would be a a real kind of sticking point for me like I I don't

00:24:32   know how I would feel about that because I really like the OLED screen like the

00:24:36   OLED of the screen is one of my favorite things about the phone because I love

00:24:40   all of the apps that I use that use these true dark, like true black themes. I think

00:24:45   it's wonderful. And if they had an LCD, the reason I think this by the way is that I think

00:24:51   one of the problems for supply and release of the phone was OLED screens and we've seen

00:24:59   the troubles that Google had with their OLED screens.

00:25:02   "Boy, I have a hard time seeing..." I feel like the OLED screen is part of what makes

00:25:10   the iPhone X the iPhone X. I guess you could argue retroactively if you're Apple, you could

00:25:14   argue, "Well, no, it's really the no button and the screen reaches to the edges of the..."

00:25:19   and all of that. Although my understanding is some of that has to do with the nature

00:25:23   of the OLED screen, that it can kind of be folded down at the edges. So I just have a

00:25:27   hard time seeing something they called an iPhone X Plus that didn't have the OLED screen.

00:25:31   Yeah, and then my kind of the secondary part that is me thinking like if it is this hard then there just won't be one

00:25:37   This year. I always thought that like from when the phone first came out

00:25:41   I was like I do not imagine them having a plus-size one one year later

00:25:44   Like I was thought it'd be two years later

00:25:46   But if it could be plus-sized iPhone 10 with an OLED screen came out

00:25:51   I would 100% move to it for the reason that I had a plus phone in the first place

00:25:55   I like the biggest screen that I can have like I think it would be wonderful

00:25:59   So here's here's I actually have something from this weekend where I was

00:26:03   When I say I don't want a larger iPhone

00:26:08   I think it has a lot to do with me and and you know

00:26:11   It's probably some ergonomic things like the size of my hands the way I hold the phone and all that and I could probably adapt

00:26:16   but it definitely has a lot to do with how I use my phone and

00:26:21   I had this so over the weekend. We were in in Southern California visiting family and

00:26:27   And I had at one point we were at like a food hall with a bar

00:26:32   and we're sitting there with a bunch of people

00:26:36   from the family and some friends

00:26:39   and we're drinking beer and talking.

00:26:41   And I get a note saying that one of the podcasts

00:26:44   that got posted on the incomparable was showing as what,

00:26:47   503, which is basically forbidden.

00:26:49   I don't know why this happened.

00:26:52   I still don't know why,

00:26:54   but the permissions were wrong on that file.

00:26:56   And the only way for me to fix the permissions on that file

00:26:58   were to SSH into the Unix server and go to the directory

00:27:03   and do a sudo chmod, you know, plus R to the file,

00:27:08   like all this Unix-y stuff, right?

00:27:12   Oh my God.

00:27:12   And the funny thing is you can do that on an iPhone.

00:27:16   And I did it.

00:27:16   I have prompt, the prompt app from panic, I wanna say.

00:27:21   And it was, I totally did it.

00:27:26   And I showed it to Lauren and I said,

00:27:29   look what I just did.

00:27:29   And she's like, "Oh, that's terrifying."

00:27:31   I said, "It is terrifying, but I did it."

00:27:33   That was that moment where I thought, you know what?

00:27:36   If I'm out and about all the time,

00:27:38   which I'm not, and I'm in situations like that,

00:27:44   let me tell you, I'd rather have a bigger phone.

00:27:47   - Yeah, I mean, that was why. - So what I'm saying is,

00:27:49   I understand the appeal of the bigger phone because if I found myself in those situations

00:27:54   all the time where I'm out somewhere and have to do something that really would benefit

00:27:59   from a larger screen, I get it then. I would get it then. I just don't find myself in that

00:28:04   situation very often.

00:28:05   Yeah, I mean that was my original reason, right? Is that I was trying to like run a

00:28:09   business whilst I had a job and like the reason why I did that was on my iPhone. And whilst

00:28:15   I don't need to do that anymore, like I work at home, I then got used to a bigger screen

00:28:21   phone, right? So I love all of the other things that come with that, so yes, I would love

00:28:25   one. But I do want to ask from you though, what does an iPhone SE2 look like? Like what

00:28:31   does it have? I think it's just the internals of like an iPhone 7 or an iPhone 8, looking

00:28:38   like the iPhone 5, like it still does, like the iPhone, that design, I would imagine it

00:28:44   doesn't have wireless charging or anything like that. I would imagine they will upgrade

00:28:47   the cameras to a more recent iPhone standard. Again, maybe the iPhone 8 cameras, maybe the

00:28:53   iPhone 8 processor or the iPhone 7 processor. So faster and maybe more memory and different

00:29:01   storage options. But I think the way I envision it is they're just going to keep it looking

00:29:07   the way it does. They're not going to invest in a new industrial design. People like that

00:29:10   it has been successful as that, and just upgrade the internals so they can

00:29:14   continue to sell it without having to support the old processor for

00:29:20   two more years, right? I mean, I think that's like one of the number one reasons

00:29:23   you do it is you bring it up to state-of-the-art-ish because you know

00:29:27   people are going to have that phone for three or four years and you're going to

00:29:30   want to roll out iOS updates to them and the current SE is already two years old

00:29:34   and it's really two and a half years old if you look at the processor that's in

00:29:37   it. So that's my that's my thought is is nothing particularly out of the

00:29:42   ordinary just sort of like use the state-of-the-art parts that they use for

00:29:47   the cameras and that they use for the processor and just continue to sell it

00:29:53   as a new iPhone SE at the bottom of the price list. But like if this phone the

00:29:58   SE is considered to be important enough to be in the lineup is it always gonna

00:30:03   look like this? You know, maybe not, but I feel like that design is fine. Like, honestly,

00:30:15   I feel like it's fine. It doesn't look like other iPhones. I'm not sure it needs to look

00:30:20   like other iPhones. It's small. It's the small, chunky, you know, iPhone and the people who

00:30:28   like it continue to like it. So this goes this is similar to our conversations

00:30:33   about the Mac where I say I'm not sure or the Mac Mini or the or the Mac Pro

00:30:40   where it's one of those questions of like how motivated is Apple to invest in

00:30:44   this product because updating the internals is one level of investment.

00:30:49   Redesigning the case is another level of investment and I'm not sure the SE needs

00:30:56   a case redesign and it would cost Apple to do it so maybe they just stick with

00:31:03   this at some point it's possible that that design will be impossible to

00:31:06   continue to make but I'm not sure when that is other than for style reasons and

00:31:11   maybe for style reasons they're just never concerned about it because it's

00:31:14   fine it is what it is it looks like that it is the you know the SE iPhone look so

00:31:19   they don't ever have to change it quite honestly and if they do that'll be a big

00:31:25   moment because they will have to invest in making those decisions. My gut feeling is

00:31:30   that we're not anywhere near there now, that somebody at Apple would say, "No, no, we need

00:31:34   a complete redesign of the SE when we release a new version of it." Because, I mean, they

00:31:38   already released the SE and it's just the iPhone 5 design, so, you know, they've already

00:31:44   passed on that once. I don't see why they wouldn't just keep doing what they're doing.

00:31:50   In regards to the iPhone X, the only hardware improvements that I can think of would maybe

00:31:55   be to making face ID better, if that would even be hardware. You know I would like stuff

00:32:02   like the ability to have more than one face, I would like that eventually. I think it could

00:32:08   do a better job of seeing me in the dark. I definitely have more trouble with it trying

00:32:13   to unlock in low light situations. Whether that should be the case or not, it's true

00:32:19   for me. Um, and I would like it to be able to,

00:32:22   to see me better and in all orientations, sometimes it doesn't.

00:32:27   So I like face ID a lot. Um, I wouldn't want to necessarily,

00:32:32   no, I wouldn't want to go back to touch ID. I like face ID a lot,

00:32:35   but it does really feel sometimes to me like version one touch ID,

00:32:40   like this is really great, but it can be better.

00:32:43   And I'm hoping that face ID two, um,

00:32:46   will be to like touch ID, what touch ID 2 was to touch ID, you know, like huge jumps

00:32:54   because it's out in the world and the algorithm system can get better.

00:32:57   Well, and they may be able to do, you know, things to make, now that it's in the real

00:33:02   world too, they may already, presumably they're already working on what the next thing would

00:33:05   be for that sensor stack in the front of the phone and maybe it's wider field of view or,

00:33:14   know, better able to compensate if you're further away and it's at an angle, or that

00:33:18   your head is tilted, or that the phone is tilted. Like, there are a bunch of things

00:33:22   that I'm sure that the people who are working on that are working on, as well as something

00:33:26   like having additional faces that are capable of being detected and things like that. So,

00:33:32   there's plenty, I mean, as good as it is, and Face ID is really good, it's a 1.0, right?

00:33:38   So there's no doubt that the people who are working on it are finding all sorts of ways

00:33:43   that they can make it better. And when we get to the iPad, there are, it's related there

00:33:48   too, right? When we get there.

00:33:50   So let's move there. Let's talk about iPad hardware. I think first up, do you think we're

00:33:54   going to see iPad hardware in 2018?

00:33:57   I don't know. I don't know. We might not. Like, this is the question is how often, how

00:34:02   often does Apple update the iPad, the iPad Pro? And what we saw is that the, we went

00:34:09   - So what, so we went from the nine seven to the 10 five.

00:34:14   - In 18 months.

00:34:16   - In 18 months, right?

00:34:17   - We went from 12 to 12 in two years.

00:34:21   - In two years.

00:34:21   - Yeah, effectively, it was just under two years.

00:34:23   - Right, and now they're all synced up, right?

00:34:25   So we had new iPads in the fall.

00:34:30   Was it the fall that we got the new iPads?

00:34:32   - We got them in June, we got them in February.

00:34:34   - Oh, we got them in June.

00:34:35   - Yeah.

00:34:35   - Well, so then it really is a coin flip.

00:34:36   Like I think that they could come this fall

00:34:40   or they could come next spring.

00:34:43   And the question is just what pace is Apple on

00:34:45   for the iPad Pro?

00:34:46   Does Apple think that that's a year plus pace

00:34:50   or is that a two year pace or a year and a half pace?

00:34:52   And it could be anywhere between a year and two years.

00:34:55   If I had to guess, my guess is it's most likely

00:34:58   on an early 2019 product.

00:35:01   My hope is that it's a late 2018 product

00:35:03   because I like the iPad Pro

00:35:06   and I'd like to see new models and I'd like to see them to be awesome and

00:35:09   faster. I think it's more likely that we'll get new iPhones in the fall and

00:35:13   then we'll get new iPad Pros based on a processor variation of the new iPhones

00:35:17   in the spring. So I could go either way with the existing iPad Pro

00:35:22   hardware. I would like to see some because I do believe that the next iPad

00:35:27   Pro is likely to be a one that takes its cues from the iPhone 10, not the OLED

00:35:34   screen because that would be bananas. But one day though, ooh, one day. Yes, but I do

00:35:41   think trying to reduce the bezels even more and if they can, going from Touch ID to Face

00:35:47   ID. But this goes back to what we were saying about Face ID a minute ago, which is Face

00:35:51   ID on the iPad is a lot harder because the iPad needs to be held in different orientations,

00:35:56   which means how does that work? Where do they put the sensor? Is the sensor capable of working

00:35:59   in both the orientations? Do they have to do, I don't think they would do two sensors.

00:36:03   seems also way too expensive to do. So I think that's a question is, are they embracing the

00:36:12   new iPhone philosophy in the iPad hardware or not? And if they are, which I hope they

00:36:17   are and I think they would, that even more sounds like a 2019 product than a 2018. As

00:36:23   much as I wish, wish list I wanted at the end, I wanted this fall. But you know, is

00:36:29   that real? Is that realistic? I don't know.

00:36:32   Talking about realistic or maybe unrealistic, what about USB-C?

00:36:39   So I don't know what's going on with... To me, this is one of the biggest questions about

00:36:48   what Apple's doing with the iPad, which is, where does the iPad go? And is Apple aggressively

00:36:54   driving the iPad into a bunch of different places now that it's sort of gotten some traction

00:36:58   with a low cost iPad and it's gotten subtraction

00:37:00   with the iPad Pro, is it gonna kinda keep pushing there?

00:37:04   Or is it gonna just sort of stay back

00:37:08   and we'll see what happens with it?

00:37:10   Because like, if you radically change the iPad Pro

00:37:14   and do things like reduce the bezels

00:37:17   and which might make you like reduce the size

00:37:20   of the 12.9 version, if you update that one,

00:37:22   it could also mean more screen

00:37:25   or it makes the 10.5 even smaller.

00:37:26   there are lots of different ways to go there. Do you also say, well, no, it's really a computer

00:37:31   like to the point where we're going to put a USB-C on it instead of lightning. So don't

00:37:35   even think of lightning for as the iOS connector anymore. It's really, you know, it's for smaller

00:37:40   devices and this thing is more like a computer. So we're going to do USB-C. You won't even

00:37:44   need an adapter, you know, plug in a USB-C ethernet adapter and it'll just work plug

00:37:48   in it, you know, for some of that might require iOS updates if they want to support more USB-C

00:37:54   But I hope they get there. This, though, is the larger question about the iPad, because it happened again this weekend. I wrote about it last year.

00:38:06   Marco Arment tweeted this weekend about how he was retweeting Federico with his bridge keyboard. He got a bridge keyboard like I have for the iPad 12.9.

00:38:17   And he said, maybe Apple needs to make a convertible,

00:38:22   which is that iBook that I wrote about

00:38:26   on Macworld last year.

00:38:28   And again, if this is a wishlist and not a predictions list,

00:38:32   yeah, I'm gonna wish for that.

00:38:34   I'm gonna wish for another iPad, basically, class device

00:38:39   that is something that is more like a PC convertible

00:38:42   or like that Google Pixelbook thing

00:38:46   that is like a convertible laptop tablet

00:38:49   that is primarily a laptop,

00:38:51   but you can turn it into something

00:38:52   that's kind of tablet-ish,

00:38:53   either by, you know,

00:38:55   in some of them it's by disconnecting them,

00:38:57   in others of them it's by flipping them around

00:38:59   so that the keyboard is on the back of the screen.

00:39:03   Would Apple do that?

00:39:04   I don't know.

00:39:05   Or even a more straightforward sort of iOS laptop,

00:39:07   would Apple do that?

00:39:08   I don't know, there are lots of arguments against it.

00:39:10   I think it would be a really interesting product.

00:39:11   I think it would say something

00:39:13   about where Apple is pushing iOS.

00:39:15   I, it would be malpractice for me to predict it,

00:39:19   but I do kind of wish it.

00:39:21   And that is a product that absolutely

00:39:24   should be a USB-C product, right?

00:39:26   So, but in general, I, on the iPad Pro,

00:39:29   I feel like the iPad Pro should go,

00:39:31   should just embrace USB-C.

00:39:33   That Apple should update iOS

00:39:35   to support more peripherals via USB.

00:39:38   It already supports a lot via adapters,

00:39:40   but you could toss in, like I keep on saying,

00:39:43   like Tostin mass storage support so you could theoretically plug in a thumb drive and open

00:39:48   files and see what's on the thumb drive and copy the files and stuff like that. Things

00:39:53   you do on a laptop today. I don't think it's likely but I really kind of want that to happen.

00:40:02   I would like to see Apple take a step in it by making a keyboard that is like the bridge

00:40:07   keyboard. So they make a keyboard that makes your iPad more like a laptop. They've been

00:40:12   making iPad keyboards since the very very first iPad. I don't know why Apple

00:40:19   have to just make one keyboard and that keyboard needs to be a smart cover like

00:40:24   maybe branch out a little bit more like what if you made something that was low

00:40:28   profile and like even if it had like the current keyboard that you have in the

00:40:33   MacBook Pro for all of its faults like why don't we why don't you just make you

00:40:37   know just give yeah let me see what you can do like something that is wonderful

00:40:42   and smart connected and everything.

00:40:44   - Right, there's a design challenge there

00:40:46   and it may be that they've tried that

00:40:48   and they realize what you have to do

00:40:49   is make changes on the iPad hardware

00:40:51   to do it the way they would want it.

00:40:53   And then every iPad has that

00:40:54   and maybe it makes it a less desirable device

00:40:58   when it's not attached to the keyboard

00:41:01   or something like that.

00:41:02   I mean, there are lots of arguments.

00:41:03   - Every iPad has magnets and a smart connector on it

00:41:06   whether you use it or not.

00:41:07   - Right.

00:41:08   Yeah, no, I agree.

00:41:09   I think at the very least, I would like to see Apple

00:41:13   try to make a more, even when Microsoft came out

00:41:16   with the Surface, like they had two keyboards, right?

00:41:21   They had the flimsy keyboard

00:41:22   and then they had the more rugged keyboard

00:41:24   and Apple has basically said,

00:41:25   no, we're not interested in that.

00:41:27   And I get that there are lots of engineering issues there

00:41:28   and that there are things about the bridge keyboard

00:41:31   because it's got those clips

00:41:32   that you have to slide things into and all that.

00:41:33   There's like, I don't think Apple would make that design,

00:41:37   but I would like to see Apple's take on it

00:41:39   because the third party takes are okay,

00:41:42   but if Apple fully committed to that,

00:41:45   I think it would have to be to a higher standard.

00:41:47   That may be why Apple hasn't committed to it.

00:41:49   But yeah, I think,

00:41:51   and that's why I started to think about the laptop thing too

00:41:53   or the convertible thing.

00:41:54   'Cause then, you know, it's Apple saying,

00:41:55   well, this isn't just like an accessory for the iPad Pro.

00:41:59   Maybe it's like, it's another iPad or device of some kind

00:42:04   where the keyboard is more integrated,

00:42:07   even though it doesn't have to be in the shape of a laptop all the time, they

00:42:11   could do that if they wanted to. And maybe that would be a more appley thing

00:42:14   to do, saying, "Well, you know, the existing iPad is meant to be primarily a

00:42:19   tablet. This thing is going to be primarily sort of like a thing where the

00:42:22   keyboard stays attached, but you can flip it over or detach it if you need to."

00:42:27   It might be a better product if it's designed like that. But I would

00:42:31   love to see them try because -- and I've written about this a lot, I've talked

00:42:34   about it a lot, but just the short version of it is I want to see Apple

00:42:38   experiment with taking iOS places that it isn't right now, which is some place

00:42:44   that isn't the phone and the iPad. And because I do think that the future of

00:42:48   iOS needs to be in other devices too, and whether that's a laptop or a convertible

00:42:52   or a desktop or I don't know what else, I would like to see it push the boundaries

00:42:58   a little bit. In two areas that will make Mac users maybe uncomfortable, because

00:43:01   'cause it's like, well, wait a second,

00:43:02   isn't that the max domain?

00:43:04   I feel like there's more gray area there

00:43:05   for Apple to explore if they can get over the fact

00:43:08   that they would end up selling two things

00:43:11   that look like a laptop

00:43:12   and they run different operating systems.

00:43:14   - So, but this is, oh, what about the iPad mini?

00:43:19   - I would like it to continue.

00:43:23   I have some hope and I don't know how likely it is

00:43:27   that they will make a new iPad mini

00:43:28   that is cheap like the iPad is.

00:43:33   I don't think it will be a pro anything,

00:43:35   but I just in defense of the iPad mini,

00:43:38   I used one for a long time and loved it,

00:43:40   and my son still uses one and loves it.

00:43:44   And I think it's great for kids,

00:43:45   and I think for people who want the smallest iPad possible.

00:43:49   And I feel like it's almost like an iPhone SE sort of thing

00:43:53   where every two or three years,

00:43:55   can they just update the iPad mini

00:43:57   and keep it down there in the price list next to the iPad

00:43:59   for people who want a smaller iPad,

00:44:01   essentially same specs, but smaller.

00:44:03   I again would not lay odds on that,

00:44:07   but I would kind of like to see it continue.

00:44:09   Although if I had to make a trade

00:44:10   between the iPad mini existing

00:44:12   and some new iOS slash iPad device appear,

00:44:16   I would choose the new over the iPad mini,

00:44:18   but I'd love to see them maintain the iPad mini.

00:44:20   - All right, this is only part of the whole story, right?

00:44:24   We need to talk about iOS itself.

00:44:26   But before we do, let's take a break and thank SaneBox.

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00:47:07   My biggest wish for iOS 12 is a sign of life for the iPad. I don't need tons and tons of

00:47:16   features. I just want to know we're good.

00:47:20   Yeah, I, uh, well, I think, I don't know. I'm not so desperate that I'm saying, oh,

00:47:27   show us that there's a sign of life.

00:47:28   - I mean, it's not desperation, it's more just like,

00:47:32   iOS 11 was like, we forgot the iPad, like, what iPad, right?

00:47:37   iOS 10 was like, oh, here's some great stuff.

00:47:40   Like, oh, wow, this looks awesome.

00:47:41   And iOS 11 was like, here's some stickers for iMessage.

00:47:45   Right, like that was, and like the iPad just got

00:47:49   enhancements that the iPhone got, but not in a great way.

00:47:53   - I feel like you're bargaining here a little bit.

00:47:55   I want, what I want on my wishlist is I want Apple to show

00:48:00   that they're gonna be iPad improvements every year,

00:48:03   not every other year.

00:48:05   That the iPad is important enough,

00:48:07   and that one of the ways that iOS needs to grow

00:48:10   is more capabilities for things that are being pushed

00:48:13   by the iPad Pro, not by the iPhone.

00:48:15   And so the iPhone's great,

00:48:17   they're gonna add features to the iPhone.

00:48:19   iPhone is a huge driver of Apple's business,

00:48:21   but in terms of moving this platform forward,

00:48:23   The iPad is sort of the frontier

00:48:26   and I want to see them not have that be

00:48:29   in every two years thing.

00:48:30   - Oh, for sure.

00:48:32   I mean, look, I'm on that train,

00:48:34   but like worst comes to worst,

00:48:36   I'm cool with just like a new feature

00:48:37   of some description and a bunch of really good fixes

00:48:40   because I don't have anything in my mind right now,

00:48:44   which is like the real big stuff that I wanna see.

00:48:46   I would like to see some refinements to multitasking.

00:48:50   I wanna see some fixes for files

00:48:52   and I have some lists of that stuff.

00:48:55   But really, you know, just showing me

00:48:58   that continued specific work is happening on the iPad,

00:49:02   is, that's the main thing that I wanna see.

00:49:06   Because really, it honestly didn't even feel like

00:49:08   we got a lot of bug fixes to iPad features in 11 either,

00:49:11   like it kinda just stayed as it was.

00:49:13   So, two big features, or two big focuses for me,

00:49:17   for what I wanna see improved on the iPad in iOS 12.

00:49:21   I want to see some refinements to iPad multitasking.

00:49:24   I think quite a few people have found

00:49:27   the new system confusing.

00:49:28   And I don't want them to start over

00:49:30   because I do believe it is a much better system.

00:49:34   I use it to great effect every day,

00:49:36   but I think clearing it up a little could be nice.

00:49:40   And in your article, Matt Quarles,

00:49:42   you mentioned a couple of things that you wanted to see.

00:49:45   - Yeah, so I don't know,

00:49:49   there's this the app buddy system, which I like and exists,

00:49:54   but I kind of would like apps to be able to be paired

00:49:56   with more than one buddy.

00:49:58   So if you switch, you know, to be able to set up different

00:50:00   pairs and switch between them or a relatively easy way

00:50:05   for an app to be able to display two instances of itself

00:50:09   side by side, like what Safari does would also be nice.

00:50:14   the the mic and CGP Grey official keyboard shortcuts for multitasking so

00:50:22   that you can keep your hands on the keyboard I would like as a part of it

00:50:24   too. I just I would like them to look at what shipped and how people are using it

00:50:30   and make some refinements because what happened last time was they shipped it.

00:50:34   It was apparent from day one that it wasn't very good but it did the job and

00:50:42   then nothing happened for two years now and then they ship something that's a

00:50:46   complete rethink great

00:50:49   I don't want to just sit there for two years because they they've seen how

00:50:53   people use it they probably have ideas I would like that iteration whatever they

00:50:58   choose to do I would really like to see iOS 12 make the stuff that was

00:51:02   introduced in 11 a little bit better with a little more you know a little

00:51:05   more capability for those who want to use it just that I would like to see

00:51:11   that I would like to see some progress instead of it being like look we gave it

00:51:14   to you wait two years and maybe we'll give you something totally different

00:51:17   again I don't think we're in that position now I just think refinement is

00:51:22   a good thing that they can do. I would also like to see clearing up of some

00:51:27   inconsistencies with iPhone 10 gestures like I understand why they differ now

00:51:32   but I would like to see that kind of just just cleared up a little bit you

00:51:37   know just well do some stuff there and that brings up the the whole control

00:51:41   center issue yeah and that and that's on iPad and on iPhone 10 like on iPad you

00:51:50   swipe up and you get multitasking and control center together on iPhone 10 you

00:51:55   swipe up and you get multitasking if you hold and you get the home screen if you

00:52:00   don't and I know why but that's confusing I I still even after all this

00:52:06   this time, swipe the wrong way on these devices, on all of these devices, because

00:52:11   I just haven't internalized it even now. So I think I would like to see if

00:52:17   there's any way to try and get them in the ballpark. I have a suggestion

00:52:22   and I'm sure they tested it and they didn't like it, but I hate the placement

00:52:28   of Control Center on the iPhone X in the upper right corner. I don't use

00:52:32   control center almost ever and when I do I'm always frustrated because it's like I

00:52:36   swipe down oh no that's notification center I gotta be further over to the

00:52:39   right oh there it is it's top right I used to flip up control center from the

00:52:43   bottom all the time and that gesture got repurposed for the home screen fair but

00:52:47   the other problem is swiping up on my iPad and holding gets me multitasking

00:52:52   plus control center and that doesn't happen on the iPhone so I kind of want

00:52:57   swiping up and holding on the iPhone 10 to bring up control center and

00:53:01   multitasking, even if it would be cramped. I kinda want that because I want to be

00:53:07   able to access control center from my thumb at the bottom of the screen. Plus

00:53:11   it would be nice if those gestures were harmonious because right now they're not.

00:53:15   They're kinda all over the place and I don't think, I mean, swipe down from the

00:53:20   top and in some places it's notification center and in other places it's control

00:53:24   center is not, it's just not good. It's not, and it has not gotten better for me

00:53:29   over time. I'm still frustrated by it.

00:53:31   I want to see consistency.

00:53:33   I want to see them do something that brings those two things closer together.

00:53:37   Like, I would love to see something.

00:53:40   Again, I don't know what it is and I agree with you.

00:53:43   I'm sure they tested all of these things, but whether they liked it or they didn't

00:53:47   like it, I don't think that the implementation that they went with is the best one

00:53:50   on the iPhone X. Like, I have also yet to in like, even though I do remember

00:53:55   that it's in the top right, I know it's not the right place for me.

00:53:58   Like it doesn't feel right. I don't like it. Um,

00:54:02   I would like to see them try and find a way to put it all into multitasking

00:54:07   because I think that would help a lot of it. Um, of the, you know,

00:54:10   is they're going to look different, they're going to be different.

00:54:12   But I think that it works best there. Or, you know, as you said, from, uh,

00:54:16   the home screen even like something somehow just like some make it better,

00:54:22   make it just better files. Um, okay.

00:54:26   I am very happy with the Files app and it makes working on iOS a lot better for me.

00:54:33   But I also have a lot of problems with the Files app, which have been exacerbated over

00:54:38   time.

00:54:39   I've been recording some of these.

00:54:42   So here they are.

00:54:43   Frequently I have to restart the device to download files because it gets stuck on a

00:54:48   spinner just saying "waiting to download" and the file never downloads.

00:54:52   And the only way to fix this is to reboot the entire device, which is wild.

00:54:58   I would like better ways to navigate where to save things to from the extension.

00:55:05   It's basically just tapping and scrolling through huge lists right now.

00:55:08   I feel like that that is not the best way of doing things.

00:55:11   For some reason, the Files app sometimes just completely forgets what my favorites are that

00:55:16   I drag into the favorites view.

00:55:19   I drag Dropbox folders into there,

00:55:21   sometimes they're not there anymore.

00:55:24   I would like to be able to save things locally to an iPad.

00:55:27   I don't always need it to be saved to iCloud Drive.

00:55:31   Just let me save it locally to the iPad.

00:55:33   I mean, saving to iCloud Drive

00:55:35   kinda seems to do this anyway,

00:55:37   and if that's the case,

00:55:38   then why do I even have on my iPad as an option?

00:55:42   Just hide that from me, I don't need to see it.

00:55:44   Just a place, sometimes I just need to save a file

00:55:47   to what is effectively the desktop, right?

00:55:49   Like a scratch area.

00:55:51   And also I'm gonna just say this for Jason,

00:55:54   just let us read files from an SD card.

00:55:57   Like just let us do it.

00:55:58   - Yeah, you've got a file browser.

00:56:01   You know, I think SD cards, I think USB hard drives.

00:56:04   And I heard a bunch of people when I wrote about this,

00:56:06   were like, oh, but the security implications.

00:56:08   Oh, is Apple incapable of dealing

00:56:10   with security implications?

00:56:12   Like, yes, they are.

00:56:13   And these are devices,

00:56:16   especially things like the iPad Pro where, you know,

00:56:19   you're the one I always give is you're somewhere

00:56:21   in a remote place and there's no good internet

00:56:23   and somebody has a big spreadsheet

00:56:25   or PowerPoint presentation they need to get to you

00:56:27   and you brought your iPad Pro.

00:56:28   Well, guess what?

00:56:30   You can't have it.

00:56:31   They've got, here it is on a flash drive.

00:56:33   No, we can't sync with the cloud.

00:56:35   How do you get it on there?

00:56:36   You can't, right?

00:56:37   Like it's, this is just a pro,

00:56:39   and I realize it's not for everybody,

00:56:41   but for people in those environments,

00:56:42   they need something like that.

00:56:44   Why not do that?

00:56:45   I'd also say, can you imagine a modern computer shipping

00:56:49   with the inability to attach to a file server in an office?

00:56:54   But iOS, can you connect directly from iOS

00:56:58   to an SMB server in an office?

00:57:00   You can't, you can't,

00:57:01   that should be built into the files app.

00:57:03   I realized that connected to a file server on a network

00:57:06   is different from connecting to a cloud service,

00:57:08   but it's not that different and you should do it.

00:57:11   You should be able to do it.

00:57:12   Now that we have the file browser,

00:57:14   and I know this is a case of like,

00:57:15   oh, we want a file browser.

00:57:16   Well, here you go, but it's limited.

00:57:18   The next thing we say is going to be,

00:57:19   it needs to be less limited,

00:57:21   but that's where we are,

00:57:22   is if you're going to have a file browser

00:57:24   in the operating system,

00:57:25   it needs to do these things, all these things better.

00:57:28   It needs to handle the local storage

00:57:30   that's not iCloud Drive better.

00:57:32   It needs to connect to servers.

00:57:33   It needs to be able to read mass storage devices

00:57:36   that are plugged into it.

00:57:37   And yes, it needs to do that all securely on top of it,

00:57:40   just like theoretically, like a Mac would do,

00:57:43   or better, but because it doesn't, you know,

00:57:45   the Mac has limitations that other operating systems

00:57:49   don't have in terms of mounting and unmounting storage too.

00:57:51   So I don't know, that is, that's a big one for me.

00:57:54   It's like now that Files app is there,

00:57:56   it needs to do more for the people who are using it

00:57:58   because it's frustrating.

00:57:59   It's way better than our old method

00:58:01   of accessing all this stuff.

00:58:02   I can take, I just did this over the weekend

00:58:04   when I was doing a podcast,

00:58:06   I was, I needed to put the art of the podcast

00:58:09   into Ferrite's little window of MP3 metadata

00:58:12   and the art I have is all in a Dropbox folder.

00:58:15   On my Mac, this is not a problem,

00:58:17   but on the iPad, it becomes this thing

00:58:18   where I used to have to save the art to the camera roll

00:58:21   in order to add it later, which is stupid

00:58:23   'cause then I've got podcast logos in my camera roll.

00:58:26   And with files, I can drag and drop out of a Dropbox folder.

00:58:29   I can drag that file out onto the image drop point

00:58:33   in Ferrite, and it downloads the file from Dropbox

00:58:36   and drops it in.

00:58:37   It's beautiful, great.

00:58:39   I'm so happy that we can do that.

00:58:41   I want more now.

00:58:42   - iCloud storage.

00:58:46   - Yeah, they gotta do something.

00:58:49   I mean, the free five gigabytes is rapidly becoming a joke.

00:58:53   And if they're going to,

00:58:57   I am a believer that they need to do something more

00:58:59   and they need to give users more

00:59:01   because you give them that

00:59:04   and use it as a way to show off how great iCloud is

00:59:07   and then they pay you for even more storage.

00:59:09   but I think that the way they're doing it now is a mistake.

00:59:14   Like they haven't changed this in a long time.

00:59:16   I think you wanna show off iCloud to people.

00:59:18   I think it's complex to get people to upgrade.

00:59:21   And then what you wanna do is set the bar

00:59:23   a little bit higher where they can use it for a little bit

00:59:26   and then be like, "Oh, now I need to pay

00:59:28   for this other storage tier where I'm paying $5 a month

00:59:31   or $10 a month or whatever, but it's totally worth it."

00:59:34   But right now you hit that wall so quickly

00:59:37   and it's still five gigs per Apple ID,

00:59:40   which I also think is a mistake.

00:59:41   I feel like, maybe with a device purchase,

00:59:44   you should get more storage

00:59:47   or you should get storage for a year or two

00:59:50   at a certain level.

00:59:51   So it's almost like a trial.

00:59:53   There are lots of different options here.

00:59:56   I hope somebody at Apple keeps kind of game planning

00:59:59   this stuff, but I would like them to see,

01:00:01   to approach iCloud storage in a different way

01:00:03   where it's more useful out of the box without paying

01:00:07   because you did buy an Apple product,

01:00:09   give the new user something for having paid Apple

01:00:13   for this piece of hardware.

01:00:15   And then also make it kind of like a good entry point

01:00:20   into iCloud where people get to the point where they're like,

01:00:23   "Oh yeah, this is great.

01:00:24   "I need to buy more storage."

01:00:25   And use that as the way to sell them.

01:00:27   The fact that Apple does a 99 cents a month tier

01:00:30   of iCloud storage, it's like, why does that exist?

01:00:33   Like that's not good for anyone because it's the barrier of paying.

01:00:36   A lot of people are just going to hit that barrier and bounce right off of it.

01:00:39   And surely a $12 a year iCloud Drive subscription is not a major driver of Apple Cloud revenue.

01:00:49   Like that's a good trade off to make.

01:00:52   Like don't make them pay at that level.

01:00:55   Raise the bar a little bit more.

01:00:56   Let people get involved.

01:00:57   I think it's been proven time and again that giving people a taste for free and having

01:01:05   them become reliable or reliant on it and then wanting more like this is the whole freemium

01:01:11   model like I think I think Apple needs to recalibrate what they're doing with iCloud

01:01:16   storage they've needed to do it for five years they still haven't done it maybe they never

01:01:20   will but I feel like they are making a mistake that hurts the user experience of people who

01:01:25   are getting Apple devices because now they're pushed to sign up for iCloud and they get

01:01:30   almost nothing for it. They try to do a backup, things fall apart, and then they get the upsell.

01:01:35   And I don't think that's a good user experience. And what about iCloud photo library? I'm going

01:01:41   to give you your opportunity to complain about this as you do every year. Yeah, I know every

01:01:48   year I do it and they just don't, they just don't. They don't want to listen to this.

01:01:54   here it is, which is I have photos and my wife has photos that we take that we

01:02:03   want to share with each other at full quality because we don't need two photo

01:02:06   libraries, we need one photo library. Not everybody wants to share all their

01:02:11   photos with other members of their family. That's fine, but there should be

01:02:15   options and my wife should be able to say all of these photos or all my photos

01:02:20   I take or all the photos with certain faces in them or whatever just sink over

01:02:23   the other library. I should be able to say all the photos in the library sync

01:02:26   to my wife's devices. Because right now, if she wants to make a calendar based on

01:02:30   all our pictures we took last year for this year, she has to use my

01:02:34   computer to do it. She can't use her Mac to do it, she can't use her iPad to do it,

01:02:38   she can't use her iPhone to do it. She's got her own Apple ID and her photos that

01:02:42   she takes are on her own Apple ID, which is fine.

01:02:45   Now there is some family sharing in iCloud because every time I complain

01:02:49   somebody mentions, "but there is family sharing in iCloud," it is, you've got

01:02:53   gotta drag the files into a family shared album and they're down res'd.

01:02:57   They're not full quality so you can't use it archivaly, it's not your family

01:03:01   photo library, it's just a place for you to quickly share a file at a lower

01:03:04   resolution with your family. It's not good enough, it's not good enough. So this is not a feature for

01:03:08   everybody but I think it's a feature for a lot of people, especially

01:03:13   married people who, you know, with kids and they take pictures and and then

01:03:17   they're trying to build photo albums and things like that and they don't have

01:03:19   access to the other person's photos. And I always hear people are like, "Oh, well, do

01:03:25   you really want to share all your photos?" You know, like, there can be privacy

01:03:29   issues. And people, yes, some—if this is a feature—some idiot is going to take

01:03:36   terrible photos of something, and their spouse is going to see it, and it's going

01:03:41   to lead to problems in their marriage.

01:03:42   Okay, sure, that is not enough of a reason to keep everybody else from having this

01:03:48   features. So you put some security systems in place, you opt people in, you

01:03:52   can limit it by location or time or faces or whatever you want, but there's

01:03:58   got to be a better way than me taking my wife's phone every three months or six

01:04:02   months and just plugging it into my Mac and importing all her photos into my

01:04:05   library, because that's where we are right now. It's dumb.

01:04:09   So that is our iOS wish list for 2018.

01:04:14   Yeah, I'm not counting on my wish that's being fulfilled, but it's good to get it out. It's

01:04:20   good to get the expectations and the hopes and the dreams out there.

01:04:22   You gotta. You gotta share. So a while back, we spoke about trying to give some of our

01:04:28   knowledge about podcasting on this show in a semi-recurring segment of Podcast Tips.

01:04:34   And I want to do one today, and I want to tackle a question that has made me asked of

01:04:40   me more frequently than any other and for a good reason.

01:04:45   And this question comes from Jay and Jay asked, "How does one market a podcast to grow its

01:04:52   audience?"

01:04:54   Jay says, "We've shown up every day for the past year and our numbers do not see any growth."

01:04:59   Alright so without a doubt this is the question I get asked the most and I guess one of the

01:05:06   problems with this question is that there is no right answer. So I have a story that

01:05:15   I want to tell, which is kind of an abridged version of my story and what I learned from

01:05:19   it. And then Jason, I thought that you could maybe tell an abridged version of your story.

01:05:24   And then we can, I think that I think there is something to take from it, but it is not

01:05:29   the 10 quick steps to podcast success.

01:05:32   So I started podcasting over 10 years ago now,

01:05:37   which is a horrific fault to me

01:05:41   (laughs)

01:05:41   that I've been doing this for 10 years.

01:05:43   And when I started, the landscape is very different

01:05:48   to what it is now.

01:05:49   Even just in tech podcasting,

01:05:52   there were not as many tech shows then as there is now.

01:05:55   And I started my first show

01:05:58   and it was mostly focused around technology

01:06:00   because it was something that I loved.

01:06:02   So I started doing it and it wasn't good for a while,

01:06:05   but I got the practice in.

01:06:06   And then when me and my co-hosts felt that we were better

01:06:10   and knew what we were doing,

01:06:12   we started to get guests on our show.

01:06:14   And the thinking was then that it would give variety

01:06:18   to the show and also help us get promoted

01:06:21   as people would share the episode with their followers.

01:06:24   And I know that this sounds like a super simple tactic

01:06:26   that many shows take now.

01:06:30   But honestly, there were not a lot of people doing this then.

01:06:34   That this wasn't like a thing in technology podcasting

01:06:38   that people would have wonderful guests

01:06:40   like Jason on their show, which I did,

01:06:42   even on my very first show, Jason was a guest,

01:06:45   and it was wonderful, and it was great to have Jason

01:06:47   as a guest on my show, and I was very happy

01:06:49   that he came on the show.

01:06:50   And the reason that this worked for me then

01:06:53   is because people like Jason did not have

01:06:56   their own technology podcasts that they were on every week at that time. It just wasn't

01:07:00   a thing. And so now this doesn't work very well because you get to hear these people

01:07:07   every week. So if you have Jason as a guest on your technology show now, it may not be

01:07:13   so much of a boon for you because people hear Jason talk about this stuff on his show upgraded

01:07:19   every week. So it is less of a thing now, but then it was more of a thing because everybody

01:07:27   didn't have their own show. So this was kind of how I got my break. It is not helpful advice

01:07:34   anymore because I don't think that it is very applicable today. I don't think having guests

01:07:39   on a show specifically will help grow your show because it is a tried and true method

01:07:45   at this point. This is something that lots and lots and lots of people do as a way to

01:07:49   to try and get more attention to their podcast is to have guests. So Jason, before I talk

01:07:55   about what I think can be learned from my method, how did you get your breakthrough

01:07:59   in podcasting?

01:08:00   Jason B

01:08:01   Well, it helps to have an audience, right? And I had an audience with Macworld. I was

01:08:06   writing my column in Macworld every month and would, you know, that promote my Twitter

01:08:12   feed, which I would then say I did this podcast and I did this podcast. And, you know, when

01:08:18   I went out on my own, Six Colors, I post items there when we post podcasts, not

01:08:23   all of them but most of them, and that all helped. Being around

01:08:33   people who are podcasting and have audiences, there are a few ways to do

01:08:40   that. We actually had a thread of people who are members of the

01:08:43   incomparable, we have a discussion area for them. It's a great user benefit. And there

01:08:50   was a conversation there about how people found the incomparable that sprung up. And

01:08:53   it was fascinating to see that because a lot of it was I heard Jason on the talk show.

01:08:59   I saw Jason on twit. Some of it was because I do the show with Tim Goodman. Like I listened

01:09:08   to Tim Goodman's podcast and the new version has Jason and that's where I found the incomparable.

01:09:12   Some of it was from other podcasts I did. There was lots of different ways of leading into it.

01:09:19   When the incomparable went on five by five, it exposed the five by five audience to that podcast.

01:09:24   And that was a way that it grew. So I'd say being adjacent to people with different audiences than

01:09:32   you, like one of the great things about me going on Twitter is I feel like the vast majority of

01:09:36   of the people on the—on Lea LePort's audience don't know who the hell I am. And so every

01:09:44   time I go there, I feel like people discover who I am, and that turns them into maybe upgrade

01:09:48   listeners or download listeners or incomparable listeners or whatever, right? I think that

01:09:52   that—that's nice. Having guests on can be great. Like, one of the things about incomparable

01:09:56   being a panel show is that I end up having John Saracusa saying, "Oh, I was on the incomparable

01:10:00   talking about Star Wars," or John Gruber saying, "I was on talking about The Godfather," and

01:10:04   that all kind of feeds into it. So some of it is just, you know, can you be adjacent

01:10:08   to other people? And I'm not saying like you need to be a remora attached to a famous person.

01:10:13   I'm saying find people who are like you and maybe who like you, who have audiences that

01:10:17   are not your audience. Because the truth is that's kind of how it happens is you get exposed

01:10:24   to a different audience and then some of them follow you back because they like what you

01:10:27   have to say. And a lot of, most of them won't because not, they won't necessarily dislike

01:10:31   you but they just they'll be like okay that was a guest and they move on but some people

01:10:35   might and and so for me it's been you know all of those things rolled together is having

01:10:41   an existing audience being adjacent to people with other audiences and and sort of having

01:10:45   them discover what I'm doing through their audiences whether it's me guessing on their

01:10:49   place or them guessing on on on my place and then the truth is Myke and you know you and

01:10:54   I this may be where you're going with this is a lot of it is luck a lot of his luck you're

01:11:01   in the right place at the right time, I'd say don't get disheartened if your audience

01:11:06   size is flat because, I don't know, I mean my experience is most podcasts spend a long

01:11:14   time with the same audience. I've also seen it that you have a flat audience for a while

01:11:20   and then suddenly you enter a growth phase. And I don't know, and again, why did that

01:11:28   we don't always know. We often have no idea why, "Oh, well, somehow the ball started

01:11:33   rolling and suddenly now we're being listened to by more people." But it totally happens.

01:11:37   So sometimes a podcast reaches its level and that's just what it is, and that's okay. Other

01:11:42   times not. And also I'd say be realistic about the numbers. I mean, you know, I do podcasts

01:11:49   with—some of the podcasts I do are probably only listened to by like 4,000 people, which

01:11:54   to some people is a huge audience and to me is like one of my smaller things. And that's

01:11:59   just how it is. Like some, everything finds its own level. Maybe that's all that it's

01:12:05   ever going to be and that's just how it is and you have to be comfortable with that.

01:12:08   Yeah, so like, you know, like we are kind of coming, we're like conflicting a little

01:12:14   bit in what we're saying because like I was saying that, you know, I don't think that

01:12:17   guests help as much anymore and you were saying that they helped you and I agree with what

01:12:21   what you're saying, I more mean that like going from having a small show to being where

01:12:30   I am now, like my method to starting off was to get guests and to start to meet people.

01:12:36   And it definitely helps, but I don't think it helps to the level that it helped me 10

01:12:40   years ago. But it still can. And I do think your biggest help was the fact that you had

01:12:47   an existing audience of people. There were people there to listen to you. And that is

01:12:53   even harder to get. Like, are you already the editorial director of a magazine? Well,

01:13:01   that helps. But what we're trying to say with this is, the lesson is that there are many

01:13:09   different ways in which you can find success in your creative project. And like with all

01:13:13   creative projects, it is very hard to make it successful. To grow any creative endeavor

01:13:18   takes time and hard work and effort. One of the key things that I recommend to you is

01:13:25   to find the thing that makes your show different and lean into that. If you can't find the

01:13:33   thing that makes your show different, you need to find something that makes it different.

01:13:37   Because otherwise it's gonna be like something that everybody else is already listening to.

01:13:43   So you know, find that thing, lean into that thing, and I think that it might help people

01:13:50   start to share the show because they're gonna find it exciting and interesting.

01:13:54   Yeah, it's no guarantee of success, but I think it will help.

01:13:58   That should always be, do something that is not like everything else, I know easier to

01:14:05   say than do but and be true to yourself and have it be something that you care about and

01:14:09   that you're enthusiastic about and be yourself when you're doing it. Like all of those things

01:14:13   are part of the secret sauce there.

01:14:17   But I want everybody to know this is something that we both still struggle with today. There

01:14:21   are shows that we'll launch and we don't know if they're going to work. It's a gamble every

01:14:25   time and sometimes stuff doesn't work and it doesn't go the way that you want. This

01:14:30   This is a thing that can still happen no matter how long you've been doing this.

01:14:34   So it is hard work.

01:14:37   But as Jason said, if you do something that you really care about, that will help you

01:14:41   get through the times when it's not going anywhere.

01:14:45   I spent seven years not getting where I wanted to be.

01:14:52   So it was a long time.

01:14:54   And I had a lot of great success over that period of time, but it wasn't what I wanted.

01:14:57   I wanted was to be a full time podcaster. It took me seven years to get there. So there's

01:15:03   a lot of ups and downs. If this is something that you truly want to do and it's something

01:15:07   that you think is awesome, then keep working at it and you'll get there eventually.

01:15:12   So please send in, just tweet to me. I'll get lots of tweets this week, lots of segment

01:15:16   ideas and names and questions. Just send me, if you want to hear us talk about a question

01:15:21   that you have about podcasting, just send it to me over on Twitter or via email or something

01:15:26   and we'll try and include it in a later episode.

01:15:30   And thanks again to Jay and good luck Jay with your show.

01:15:35   Today's episode is also brought to you by Squarespace. Use the offer code upgrade at

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01:16:58   It is time for #AskUpgrade.

01:17:03   One laser, so you can do that. Oh, there was more. Okay, delay reaction on the lasers everybody.

01:17:08   The lasers had to, the lasers had some ice on them that they had to like, shift them

01:17:11   around a little bit to break the ice off. It is cold in some places.

01:17:15   Braden asks, "Any suggestions on a solid iOS email app?" I am going to remove the

01:17:22   word solid from Braden's question because there isn't one, in my opinion. Jason, what

01:17:29   is your email app of choice right now?

01:17:33   Mail.app.

01:17:34   Yeah, you're back everything on all platforms?

01:17:37   No, on the Mac I'm using Mailplane, which is just a framing Gmail in a more capable

01:17:44   kind of keyboard shortcut kind of app window. It's like a single site browser sort of for

01:17:49   Gmail. Everywhere else it's Apple Mail.

01:17:53   Okay. I'm still using Air Mail. Air Mail is not perfect, but it has a bunch of features

01:17:59   that I really, really like from it. I find myself getting frustrated at it from time

01:18:03   to time, but it does offer me features that other apps don't and they're features that

01:18:09   I really like so I struggle to move away.

01:18:12   So that's what we're using right now.

01:18:15   Napali asks, says, I love my iPhone 10, but it drives me crazy when I grab it and it lights

01:18:20   up upside down.

01:18:21   Do you think a dot or a line to indicate orientation with the black screen could be useful?

01:18:27   So I would say I also do this a lot.

01:18:30   I pick up my iPhone, it's in the wrong orientation.

01:18:33   I don't think I would want something like always printed on the phone.

01:18:37   What I would like to see is Apple trying to do something which is like always on with

01:18:42   the OLED screen.

01:18:43   Maybe the clock and some notification badges could be there.

01:18:46   So I'll know because I can see.

01:18:48   That might be nice.

01:18:50   Yeah, I agree with you.

01:18:53   The OLED screen should allow us to have some subtle notifications on the iPhone X, right?

01:19:01   And Apple has chosen not to do that.

01:19:03   And I don't really know why, but this is a good,

01:19:07   this is another good reason why you might wanna do that,

01:19:11   is it would also allow for some clearer orientation

01:19:14   in the dark.

01:19:15   - Just anytime, like in pure daylight,

01:19:20   I pick my phone up in the wrong way around.

01:19:22   - But like having, I tap my screen all the time

01:19:26   to see like what the time is.

01:19:27   - Yeah, yeah.

01:19:28   - When I'm sitting at my desk.

01:19:29   I mean, even when I have an Apple Watch,

01:19:31   or yeah, see it or see if there's something going on.

01:19:33   That's fine.

01:19:34   But like if I had a little like readout that also just said,

01:19:36   you know, maybe it was like really super super subtle.

01:19:38   Maybe it just said the time and like how many notifications

01:19:41   were on the screen like to you know to and I could tap

01:19:45   and I could see the notifications that pop up or something

01:19:47   like that.

01:19:47   They I'm interested in the fact that Apple has not done that

01:19:51   even though they've got an OLED screen here.

01:19:53   And yeah, I think that Nepali's suggestion of maybe even

01:19:57   just keeping that really light gray line at the bottom of the screen that's the home indicator

01:20:05   thing. Even something like that that would make it clearer that you could do that or

01:20:11   some version of that. I get there's issues and stuff too, but I would like to see the

01:20:17   line go away in the future. I kind of don't need it. I know why they have it. It makes

01:20:24   sense to have it for now but like eventually it'd be nice if it just didn't work there

01:20:29   anymore.

01:20:30   I agree.

01:20:31   David just got a new MacBook Pro from work.

01:20:34   Any recommendations for a good dongle bag?

01:20:36   Jason do you use a dongle bag?

01:20:38   I have never used the phrase dongle bag before and I don't think I will again.

01:20:42   I don't have anything like that.

01:20:44   I recommend that you go to your sandwich drawer and pull out a ziplock bag.

01:20:49   Ziplock will do it.

01:20:50   Just stick them in there because that's what I do.

01:20:52   I recommend perusing the accessories page at Tom Bihn. They have lots and lots and lots

01:21:00   of options for dongle bags and dongle holders, so they're good.

01:21:04   Jason, this is a good question for you. We were talking about something. When you were

01:21:09   describing your rat nest of cables recently, it popped into my head. Wow, that was a fun

01:21:14   time for everyone. Tim wrote in to ask any suggestions for what to do with old, unused

01:21:21   technology items. Tim has been cleaning out some boxes of old tech and come across some

01:21:26   stuff like iPod docks and mice and cables. Feels wasteful to just throw them out. Jason,

01:21:31   what do you do with this stuff?

01:21:33   What I recommend is if you have a local electronics recycling point, and a lot of places have

01:21:44   this, I have one that it's open, I think it's open five days a week, seven days a week even,

01:21:51   And it's a place where you can drop off old computers,

01:21:53   old hard drives.

01:21:54   I mean, ideally wipe all your information off them first,

01:21:56   but they take them.

01:21:58   And at least my place, it seems like they do some diagnosis

01:22:03   of like, can we refurbish this?

01:22:04   Can we sell this?

01:22:06   Do we dismantle this?

01:22:08   But if there's somewhere where they have old,

01:22:11   where they take old tech,

01:22:13   they may call it electronics recycling

01:22:15   or something like that.

01:22:17   I would say do that.

01:22:19   People don't want you to come in with a rat's nest of cables and say, "Here, I got this for you."

01:22:26   Nobody wants that. But I agree it feels wasteful to just throw it in the garbage.

01:22:30   I would rather give it to somebody who at least might look at them all and be like,

01:22:35   "These are good. I can reuse them, donate them, sell them, or whatever,

01:22:41   but you're probably not going to do that yourself."

01:22:43   So that's my recommendation.

01:22:46   I mean if you've got a lot of spare time you could put those things in dongle bags

01:22:50   or ziplock bags or whatever and go to your local, I don't know where, school

01:22:55   library or some other kind of donation place and say would you

01:23:00   like some USB cables? I've got them in a bag here. But for the most part I

01:23:04   would say I try to find a place where they take old tech and that's where when

01:23:09   I cleaned up my rat's nest of cables that's where most of them went along

01:23:13   with some of the old hardware boxes that I had. Jared asked if not in Evernote what do

01:23:20   you use to organize and store long term data like medical documents or tax documents and

01:23:27   stuff like that? Jason? The yeah Dropbox PDFs and other stuff. Yeah files and folders in

01:23:37   Dropbox is fine because it just seems like the most simple and portable way of doing

01:23:47   it. Like, I put all this stuff in Evernote. Trying to get everything out of Evernote is

01:23:51   a nightmare and that was the indication to me.

01:23:56   I don't need an app to store PDFs. I don't, right? The file system does that. And so Lauren

01:24:06   and I have a shared Dropbox folder that I put stuff in and she put stuff in and we both

01:24:10   can see and that's where that stuff lives.

01:24:12   And then the other great thing about Dropbox is when I'm done with all my tax stuff for

01:24:16   the year I just send a link to my account, right, because it's the easiest way to get

01:24:21   to this stuff.

01:24:23   I just package it all up and I just say here you go and it's taken care of and I'm happy

01:24:29   with that, right, like it's done, taken care of.

01:24:35   And our last question today comes from Justin.

01:24:37   Justin wants to know, "What are your AirPod settings?

01:24:39   Play/Pause, Siri, Next Track, and do we do the same for the left or right AirPods?"

01:24:43   Jason, what do you have set up?

01:24:47   Next Track on the right, and I think Play/Pause on the left.

01:24:54   Although most of the time I just take the earbud out if I want to pause.

01:24:58   I do Play/Pause on both because I just wouldn't remember.

01:25:03   I know I won't and I'll be hitting the wrong side of my head every time and just for the

01:25:08   record he'll say every time I still hate doing that I hate the tapping I hate when it doesn't

01:25:13   work and then you tap your ears six times to get anything to play again just still not

01:25:19   a fan of the of that.

01:25:21   It's very straightforward Myke you tap for the next track on your right ear because it's

01:25:27   to the right and that means next because in our culture we have a left or right it's the

01:25:32   where the next track button is on the interface is also the right side. So it's that ear,

01:25:39   you see. If you want to find out show notes for this

01:25:41   week go to relay.fm/upgrade/176. Thanks again to Squarespace, Anchor and SaneBox for their

01:25:49   support of this show. You can go to sixcolors.com for Jason's work, the incomparable .com or

01:25:56   you can go to relay.fm/shows and you can find many shows that Jason hosts and that I host.

01:26:00   maybe there's something new for you there. Go check it out. Maybe go start listening

01:26:04   to Download or Connected or Clockwise or why don't you go and listen to Roboism or Originality.

01:26:10   Pick something new. There are so many things over at relay.fm. Some would say we have a

01:26:21   portion of all the great shows. Some would say that. Thanks for listening. You can send

01:26:28   in #AskUpgrade or #SnailTalkQuestions as always and we will compile those for a future episode.

01:26:34   Jason is @jsnail on Twitter, I am @imike, I am YKE, and we'll be back next time. Until then,

01:26:40   say goodbye Jason Snail. Live long and prosper everybody.

01:26:44   That was just a troll for the Star Wars.