163: Kindle Bubbles


00:00:00   *BEEP*

00:00:00   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 163.

00:00:12   Today's show is brought to you by Balance, Squarespace, and Macworld.

00:00:16   And my name is Myke Hurley, and I am joined in person across this breakfast counter by Mr. Jason Snow.

00:00:21   Happy breakfast counter, Myke.

00:00:23   Happy breakfast counter to you, Jason Snow.

00:00:24   We're in Chicago right now.

00:00:25   We are.

00:00:26   We even have a tiny, tiny, tiny audience.

00:00:29   But nobody cares about that because it's time for Snell Talk.

00:00:32   That's perfect. Nice. I like that. We actually have a really fun Snell Talk question today

00:00:36   from Josh. Josh misses the old small talk, so how's the weather today?

00:00:40   It's sunny today.

00:00:41   It is sunny. We are in Chicago. We're in Airbnb right now. There's a train that goes by sometimes,

00:00:47   which you may get the pleasure of hearing.

00:00:48   Yeah, just pretend we're Merlin.

00:00:50   Yeah, we've got a streetcar. And we are at Release Notes.

00:00:53   Yes.

00:00:54   So at least that starts today.

00:00:56   We've been doing some stuff in and around.

00:00:58   We had a bunch of live episodes.

00:01:00   We had a live episode of The Pen Addict,

00:01:01   which is coming out later this week at Field Notes.

00:01:04   We had a live episode of Connected,

00:01:06   and a live episode of Ungenius.

00:01:07   Connected's out, Ungenius took me out today as well.

00:01:09   We've been doing some fun stuff, bunch of meetups.

00:01:11   It's been a really, really great week so far.

00:01:13   - And now we have a live episode of Upgrade,

00:01:14   live before a studio audience.

00:01:16   - Of two people, Federico and Steven.

00:01:18   Say hi, guys.

00:01:19   - Hey. - Hey, guys.

00:01:20   - You probably can't hear them, but they're there.

00:01:22   They're there, they're working on their iPads.

00:01:23   They're not imaginary. They're real. Yeah.

00:01:25   You can't work on an iPad, Myke. What are you talking about?

00:01:27   That's very true, actually. That is very true.

00:01:29   So, how's the Spider Mac?

00:01:32   Uhhhhh...

00:01:34   The Spider Mac is... The Spider is gone.

00:01:37   The Mac has returned.

00:01:39   I cannot tell you how relieved I was to get my iMac back.

00:01:43   I was so sad.

00:01:46   I mean, I think I mentioned this last week.

00:01:48   I was so sad to have it gone and have my little monitor arm

00:01:52   Just standing there at attention with nothing on it. It was like but my computer. Where is where did it go?

00:01:58   But it has been returned from its repairs

00:02:01   with

00:02:04   With no spider in the in the glass

00:02:06   They give you the spider back like, you know

00:02:08   If you have some like some kind of medical procedure that like kidney stones or put them in a little jar for you or something

00:02:13   No, this is more like when a pet dies that does not give you your dead pet. They they flushed it

00:02:17   they use a lot of I'm sure a lot of care and and

00:02:22   to see how they did that like just the whole process taking the screen off just to remove

00:02:27   the spider and then put it back again. I assume they pulled off the entire screen and replaced it.

00:02:34   It's the only way to do it right? Yeah and those iMacs are hard to do but anyway it's it's uh

00:02:39   it's done it which allows me to work undistracted and also to sell it or give it away

00:02:47   Handed down when I decide to upgrade upgrade my iMac which I think is gonna happen

00:02:52   I think it's just a matter of whether I'm gonna do the

00:02:56   Latest and greatest iMac this fall or whether I will I really want to see about the iMac Pro

00:03:02   I think this is my decided. I think you've decided this in your brain. You're getting an iMac Pro

00:03:06   I think you've decided I have decided to get an iMac Pro with one exception

00:03:10   Which is I know there's gonna be a moment

00:03:12   When I'm on the shopping page for the iMac Pro once the orders open up where it's gonna say

00:03:17   Here's how much it costs and it's gonna be $5,000 and I'm gonna be like really do I want to do this?

00:03:24   We I mean, I think everybody used to do this you'd go to the old Mac Pro page and you'd price up

00:03:31   How expensive can you make this?

00:03:33   You know like you get it like 10 grand 12 grand this probably gonna be like that

00:03:37   I reckon not that you'll pay that no

00:03:38   But you could if you wanted to it will be the base model if I get one of these let me tell you that base model

00:03:44   Will be very very very good. Yeah, I mean there's no doubt that logically

00:03:49   it would be good for me doing my job to have that but not the writing part, but the

00:03:53   denoising files part

00:03:56   audio files, so yeah, we'll see

00:03:58   Last week we spent some time talking about emoji. Let the eleven point one beta came out

00:04:04   After the after we recorded so you can get the emoji now and they're great. There's a bunch of new great emoji in there

00:04:09   And I got some feedback some follow-up from Mark Bram Hill who is the creator of welcome to Macintosh

00:04:16   And he just did a big emoji series. He has a lot of thoughts about emoji. So I was talking about

00:04:20   that I believe that Apple hold off the emoji releases until after the main release to try and

00:04:27   Spare on adoption and mark said that Unicode finalizes emoji in the summer

00:04:32   Giving a fairly short timeline to illustrate and that Unicode are now switching to an earlier timeline

00:04:38   Finalizing three months after in the spring so we may see next year's new emoji in iOS 12 because vendors have complained to Unicode

00:04:46   Which is why they switched their timeline so it could be the reason for the wait

00:04:50   so we'll see I mean that is a I still believe that they hold it off because

00:04:54   Other vendors like Google have supported them already

00:04:57   But it could be like if they want to spend time really illustrating them and that kind of thing

00:05:01   But it's good to see that it is funny to see how the Unicode consortium which is this big thing

00:05:06   Is basically the emoji house now, right like and that they're making all these changes now

00:05:11   So emoji can be better prepared and stuff like that. But yeah, so that's what they're doing going forward. Yeah

00:05:16   It's it's a funny example of an organization that

00:05:20   Was not made to do this, but they've kind of become fallen into it. So they yeah, they have to deal with this

00:05:26   Is what they do. Yeah, you know

00:05:28   so

00:05:30   when we were in

00:05:32   Chicago we planned to go to the cinema together. Unfortunately, you had a plane that got cancelled so you didn't make it

00:05:37   Yeah, there was a it's sunny now, but over the weekend there were torrential rains

00:05:43   Chicago big thunderstorms for a whole day on Saturday and so my flight got cancelled

00:05:48   So I came in Sunday which meant I didn't get the chance to do Myke at the movies in person

00:05:56   with you on Saturday night.

00:05:57   Because we wanted to talk about, I went to see Blade Runner 2049 which we were going

00:06:01   to talk about together but we can't now so I just want to give some completely no spoilers

00:06:06   opinions of Blade Runner 2049.

00:06:09   Here we go.

00:06:10   I just wanted to say that I really like this movie a lot.

00:06:14   It gave me what I liked about the first one, the visuals and the music are incredible,

00:06:18   just so beautiful.

00:06:20   One of the most visually beautiful films I have ever seen.

00:06:25   It was stunning.

00:06:26   And it also gave me less of what I didn't like about Blade Runner.

00:06:31   So I found the story to be easier to follow and there was more action.

00:06:35   Like there was more stuff going on in the movie.

00:06:37   So you just made Blade Runner fans happy and then like reluctant because they're like,

00:06:42   But wait, Myke is saying that he likes Blade Runner 2049 better than Blade Runner in some

00:06:49   ways because it has more of the things that you like, which is going to be heresy.

00:06:53   I prefer this movie.

00:06:54   But as I mentioned to you I believe last night, there is literally nothing you can say about

00:06:57   Blade Runner now that will not anger somebody.

00:07:00   If you like Blade Runner, you already don't like what me and Jason have to say about anything

00:07:03   to Blade Runner.

00:07:04   Even though, we've got this reputation now, even though we both pretty much came out in

00:07:10   our revision with John Syracuse in being much more favorable to Blade Runner after watching

00:07:15   the final cut. Yeah, but I prefer this movie. I really like Ryan Gosling in general, so

00:07:21   that was a big win for me, like he's great in it. I really re- I recommend it. I know

00:07:25   it hasn't done very well in the box office. Um, which it- in a way, like it doesn't surprise

00:07:32   me. Like I understand that like it's a huge cast, but it is a sequel to a movie that is

00:07:38   kind of a cult movie Blade Runner. I feel like it was not a hit.

00:07:43   So it is not surprising to me that the the sequel to this movie which maybe

00:07:48   never should have been made right like by a lot of people's standards it kind of

00:07:52   has not doing so well but I do recommend it like I actually don't really feel

00:07:58   like you even need to have seen Blade Runner to go and see this movie like

00:08:01   they set things out pretty simply with text and it's like it's kind of like

00:08:05   they have like a crawl at the beginning kind of thing and that's it. But yeah I

00:08:09   really liked it. I'm just ashamed we can't talk about it in more detail. Maybe

00:08:12   one day. Maybe. One last thing. I just wanted to mention because I've been

00:08:17   spending more time with Apple nerds in different locations over the last couple

00:08:22   of days. The iOS 11 Wi-Fi password sharing thing is amazing. So this is when

00:08:27   you're somebody's connected to a Wi-Fi network and you try to connect to the

00:08:31   same network, it gives them a pop-up on any device, Mac or iOS. They can say yes, allow

00:08:37   this person, share the password with them and it just pre-fills on your device and you

00:08:42   just have to be in somebody's contact book. So it's quite funny like if there's a bunch

00:08:44   of people in a room and you try and connect to the Wi-Fi, it pings all of their devices

00:08:50   and someone will just let you on. But it is so much easier to go like, "Hey, what's the

00:08:54   Wi-Fi password?" It's really good. It's a really good feature.

00:08:56   Yeah, and it doesn't need to be secure in that way, right? Because the idea is not,

00:09:03   well, they're not the owner of the Wi-Fi network, so should they be giving that out?

00:09:08   The fact is, once you know the Wi-Fi password, you know it, theoretically, and you can share

00:09:13   it, so why not just share it?

00:09:14   Yeah, these people have to be in your contacts. Like, I like that kind of security. They just

00:09:17   have to be a friend of yours, and you can give them the Wi-Fi password. I think that

00:09:21   works really well. It's a good feature.

00:09:23   That's great. I look forward to using that sometime.

00:09:25   So I didn't say, I want to, because we kind of skip all the way through the Snell Talk

00:09:29   question. Thank you to Josh for submitting his Snell Talk question. If you have a question

00:09:32   you'd like to open the show, #snelltalk and they'll go into a document and we can pull

00:09:37   those out.

00:09:38   That's right. And who knows, maybe there'll be more Snell Talk questions about Small Talk,

00:09:42   about the weather.

00:09:43   Maybe there will be.

00:09:44   Then it'll be directed by the listeners. We'll have to talk about Small Talk because they

00:09:47   demand it.

00:09:48   I think it kind of all is Small Talk.

00:09:49   Yeah, I suppose so.

00:09:50   Why is it called Snell Talk?

00:09:51   It's just directed instead of random. It is a little weird, I have to say, not just,

00:09:57   it's very nice to be across the table from you. We do this really a shocking amount,

00:10:01   given that I live in California and you live in London, we do this two or three times a

00:10:06   year it seems, which is great. So high five. Yeah, there it is. That was good podcasting.

00:10:13   You spit out some water and did a high five. It is a little disconcerting, I realize, as

00:10:18   I'm sitting here because I keep looking up and to my left expecting to see the oak tree

00:10:26   out my window and it's not there. There's no oak tree over there. Where's the oak tree?

00:10:30   Where's the squirrel that is running along the fence? They're not out there.

00:10:34   I can see him at McDonald's.

00:10:35   It is Monday morning though. So that is, that feels, and I'm sitting here kind of unshaved

00:10:40   and in my shirt from yesterday because I haven't taken a shower yet this morning. And in that

00:10:45   way, it feels like upgrade.

00:10:47   There's a lot of information for the listener.

00:10:50   Today's show is brought to you by Mack Weldon.

00:10:52   They make the most comfortable underwear, socks, shirts,

00:10:54   undershirts, hoodies, and sweatpants

00:10:56   that you're ever gonna wear.

00:10:57   Mack Weldon is better than whatever you're wearing

00:10:59   right now unless you've already been smart enough

00:11:01   to buy Mack Weldon clothing.

00:11:02   - Yep.

00:11:03   - You're wearing Mack Weldon right now?

00:11:04   - Speaking of what we said earlier, absolutely.

00:11:06   - Way too much information.

00:11:08   This is just all of the information I've got today.

00:11:09   - Did you wear your Mack Weldon sweatpants on the plane?

00:11:11   - Of course I did.

00:11:12   - Of course you did. - Of course I did.

00:11:13   - It was a little chilly the other day at home

00:11:15   and I put on my Mack Weldon sweatpants

00:11:16   and then I saw that you were flying with Federico

00:11:18   and I thought, oh, we're Mac Walden sweatpants twinsies.

00:11:21   - We were Mac Walden buddies that day.

00:11:24   Mac Walden have a no questions asked return policy.

00:11:26   If you don't like what you buy for them,

00:11:28   like for your first pair, you just keep it

00:11:30   and they'll refund you no questions asked.

00:11:31   That's how confident they are that you're gonna love.

00:11:33   They have fantastic clothes.

00:11:35   They have meticulous attention to detail,

00:11:37   a simple shopping experience, and premium fabrics.

00:11:40   They deliver a new level of daily comfort

00:11:41   straight to your door.

00:11:43   Mac Walden also have a line of silver underwear and shirts

00:11:46   and naturally antimicrobial.

00:11:48   This is some super cool science stuff,

00:11:49   which basically means that they eliminate odor.

00:11:52   Not only do Mac Walden's underwear, socks and shirts

00:11:54   look good, they perform well too.

00:11:56   They're good for working out, going to work, traveling,

00:11:58   especially internationally or for everyday life.

00:12:01   The winners of this show can get $20 off at macwalden.com

00:12:05   with the code upgrade.

00:12:06   I should say I'm also wearing Mac Walden today, Jason.

00:12:08   - Woo!

00:12:09   - Just so you know, some information for me too.

00:12:10   - We are still Mac Walden buddies.

00:12:11   - Thank you so much to Mac Walden

00:12:12   for their support of this show.

00:12:14   And Relay FM, Jason, your favorite topic.

00:12:18   There's a new Kindle.

00:12:20   - What?

00:12:21   A new Kindle?

00:12:22   - A new Kindle.

00:12:23   So this is it.

00:12:24   This is still the Oasis, right?

00:12:26   Which is weird because they seem to come up with names

00:12:29   for new stuff all the time.

00:12:31   - Yeah, they--

00:12:32   - And this seems like a pretty significant update.

00:12:33   - Well, they've revised the Paperwhite.

00:12:35   - Okay.

00:12:36   - So this is, and they've revised the Kindle,

00:12:39   I guess is what they call it. - Paperwhite

00:12:39   is a terrible name.

00:12:41   Like that, for me, is not aged.

00:12:43   That is just a bad product name, Paperweight.

00:12:45   - Well, the idea at the time was that it is

00:12:50   a high contrast screen.

00:12:52   Instead of being a kind of medium gray,

00:12:54   it's a very light gray and it's got the backlighting on it.

00:12:56   And it's actually the best Kindle to get

00:12:59   in terms of being a good buy with the features that it's got.

00:13:02   - Still?

00:13:03   - Well, we'll see how this new one.

00:13:04   So this new Oasis, this is the old Oasis

00:13:06   was more expensive than this one and kind of weird.

00:13:11   It came with a case with a battery on it, and you had to get the case because it was

00:13:16   very small and very thin and had not great battery life, although e-ink, e-book readers

00:13:21   are really good at using battery lightly.

00:13:26   But you could put the case on it and then it would use that battery or recharge its

00:13:31   own internal battery.

00:13:33   So with this, they've kept the kind of wedge shape of that.

00:13:37   It's got a kind of a thick part and a thin part, but the case is gone, the mandatory

00:13:42   battery case.

00:13:43   It's got bigger battery inside and it's heavier than it was because that battery weighs a

00:13:52   couple ounces, so it's heavier.

00:13:55   And it's got a larger screen, it's got a 7-inch screen, so it's kind of going outside of the

00:13:59   previously common 6-inch Kindle screen.

00:14:04   So it's still their premium, most expensive Kindle, but it's no longer their light Kindle

00:14:10   because it's gained that weight.

00:14:12   And it's cheaper, so that's good, it starts at $250.

00:14:17   And we'll see how it goes.

00:14:20   They're doing some interesting things, they're now doing a storage tier, which they didn't

00:14:26   do before, which I think is really funny because ebooks are very small.

00:14:30   I think they're doing this because they've added audible support.

00:14:33   So Amazon owns Audible and you can buy Audible bundles of ebook and audiobook and they've

00:14:41   added to this new Oasis and I think they're rolling it out to a couple of existing models

00:14:45   including the old Oasis and maybe there's one more where they're going to add Bluetooth

00:14:51   support that apparently there's Bluetooth in those devices and it's just turned off.

00:14:55   Bluetooth audio support so that you can also use it, pair it with headphones and listen

00:15:00   to your audiobook if you want to stop reading but keep going. Which is funny because that's

00:15:05   a throwback to the original Kindles. The original Kindles had headphone jacks and you could

00:15:09   put audiobooks on them. So this is like the next generation of that which I think is kind

00:15:13   of interesting. And then the other big thing which has never before been in existence on

00:15:18   a Kindle unless you used a Ziploc bag in the bathtub like Jeff Bezos apparently did. He

00:15:24   doesn't need to anymore because it's waterproof.

00:15:26   Yeah, why would you want a waterproof Kindle?

00:15:29   To read in the bathtub.

00:15:31   Is that the main reason that they've done this?

00:15:33   Yeah.

00:15:34   That's interesting.

00:15:35   Yeah, people, and I know, so I realized, I was talking to Aline Sims actually about this

00:15:40   who is here, and she said she was excited about the bathtub thing, and I realized your

00:15:48   feeling about reading in the bathtub has a lot to do with whether you have a good bathtub,

00:15:52   and I do not.

00:15:53   Our bathtub is uncomfortable.

00:15:54   You can read in the shower.

00:15:55   Is that a thing you want to do?

00:15:56   - No, that's not gonna happen.

00:15:58   When we were in Hawaii, I did read in a,

00:16:01   there was a hot tub at the place we were staying, out back,

00:16:04   and so it's just, you know, it's out there in the fresh air

00:16:05   in a beautiful view in a hot tub, and I did read there,

00:16:08   and I had the Kindle Oasis, the old one,

00:16:11   so I would just, you know, hold it very carefully

00:16:14   so as not to drop it in the water and destroy it.

00:16:16   But I think there are people who read in the bathtub,

00:16:20   including Jeff Bezos, who, I'm not kidding,

00:16:22   famously said that he used a Ziploc bag around his Kindle.

00:16:26   It's funny because it's IPX8 certified for waterproofing, which is just funny to me because

00:16:32   of what this certification means, like what you can do. You can submerge a Kindle for

00:16:38   up to 2 meters for 60 minutes. I don't think that's ever going to happen.

00:16:43   What I was thinking is that's the rating for "Mom, I dropped the Kindle in the pool,

00:16:48   we'll go get it now." How long does it take to fish it out of the bottom of the pool?

00:16:54   This is, I feel like Amazon is shifting their tactics here.

00:16:58   And this is, look, e-book, e-ink readers are a niche product category, but they're actually

00:17:05   popular.

00:17:06   We've talked about this.

00:17:07   Every time we talk about the Kindle, I have to do this disclaimer, which is tech nerds

00:17:09   think it's dumb because it's black and white and you should just get a tablet.

00:17:14   But the fact is, tech nerds are not the main audience for this product.

00:17:18   It is people who are the demographic of Kindle users.

00:17:21   I'm sure if Amazon actually would release this data, which they never will, but I would

00:17:25   say the demographic of Kindle, it's older. There are probably more women than men in

00:17:32   this demographic. It is the book reader demographic, which is a very different demographic than

00:17:39   the tech nerd demographic. And these are great for reading books. That's why I have them,

00:17:43   is they're great for reading text on a page. That's what they're good for. And Amazon

00:17:50   this time is like storage tier, audiobook integration direct, waterproofing, bigger

00:17:57   screen which is new, it probably is going to be, I have the Kobo Aura 1 which is a pretty

00:18:03   good ebook reader and it's like the difference between reading a paperback and reading like

00:18:06   a hard cover book or something where it's like got the bigger screen. I imagine the

00:18:10   Oasis is going to kind of be like that. So it shows that Amazon is still trying stuff

00:18:16   with the Kindle which I like.

00:18:18   - They don't have a color one, right?

00:18:20   - No, I mean the color Kindle was basically

00:18:22   the Fire tablet. - The Fire.

00:18:26   - Right, the Kindle. - It's still black and white.

00:18:28   - Yeah, it's just, I think they make color ink,

00:18:31   but there are issues with it and it's not important.

00:18:34   - You don't need it.

00:18:34   But I think that adds to what you were saying

00:18:37   about who this product is for.

00:18:39   Like if they were making this for the tech audience,

00:18:41   they probably would put color in it

00:18:42   just because it would be fancy.

00:18:43   - Yeah, it would be a checkbox and all that,

00:18:45   But this is an uncool product.

00:18:47   This is not a product that needs to be cool.

00:18:49   - This isn't an echo.

00:18:50   - No.

00:18:51   - You know, it's not cool.

00:18:52   - I have an iPad and I read on my iPad all the time

00:18:54   and when I read novels, I read them on a Kindle.

00:18:57   I prefer to read them on the Kindle.

00:18:58   I prefer the reflective screen.

00:19:00   - It's comfortable.

00:19:02   - It is easier on my eyes.

00:19:04   It's nice to not be distracted.

00:19:09   Just, you know how I say working on the iPad

00:19:11   feels less distracting than working on the Mac

00:19:13   because mostly I'm in one app at a time. Reading on the Kindle is way less distracting

00:19:18   than reading on the iPad because there's no notifications coming in or anything like

00:19:21   that. I'm just reading my book. So it's, yeah, it's not for everyone and I think

00:19:26   that for people who are sort of more vaguely interested in a Kindle, the Paperwhite is

00:19:32   probably still going to be the better buy because it's way cheaper and like if you're

00:19:35   going to buy an e-reader that's kind of disposable and you use it at the beach a

00:19:38   couple of times a year. The Paperwhite is the one I choose because it does have the

00:19:44   lighting so you can read it at night without a light.

00:19:47   Does this have a light?

00:19:48   Yeah. They all do now. This has like eight. It's something like their nine LCD or nine

00:19:54   LED backlights in the Paperwhite and this one's got like 15 or something.

00:19:59   This is bigger, right? It makes sense.

00:20:01   Yeah, and it's more evenly lit when they do it that way. So yeah, I think it's cool.

00:20:06   You want one?

00:20:07   Well, so I like the Oasis, the current Oasis a lot and one of the things I like about it

00:20:12   is you can pop that cover off and it's super light. It's like not, like there's nothing

00:20:17   in your hand. It's just, there's no weight to it. It's great.

00:20:20   But this isn't that.

00:20:21   And this one is, is I think basically the same weight as the one, the current Oasis,

00:20:27   the old Oasis in a case. But without the case, it's way heavier. It's like several ounces

00:20:31   heavier. So when this was announced, I thought to myself, yeah, you know, I think as a user

00:20:36   of the Kindle. I, Oasis, I'm not sure I really want to have this. As somebody who writes

00:20:43   about this and talks about it, I totally ordered it because I decided it was worth it to me

00:20:47   to try it out and talk about it and review it and figure out where it fits in my grand

00:20:51   which Kindle should you buy scheme.

00:20:53   I think the waterproofing might edge out the weight. Like the benefit of the waterproofing

00:20:59   for a lot of people will be like I don't care that it's heavier. Like I really need it to

00:21:02   be waterproof.

00:21:03   If you are somebody who takes your Kindle to the beach or the pool or anything like

00:21:07   that or reads in the bathtub or a hot tub or something like that.

00:21:10   I should have called it the Kindle bubbles or something.

00:21:13   Oasis, I get it.

00:21:16   It is weird to me that they did all of this and didn't give it a new product name.

00:21:23   That is strange to me.

00:21:24   Well I think obviously it was the successor to the Oasis.

00:21:33   when they were developing it, the fact that it's got that kind of wedge shape where the

00:21:36   battery's on one side, so you've got your sort of side you grip that's a little bit

00:21:40   thicker and then there's the other side which doesn't have that which means it makes it

00:21:43   lighter overall and less bulky overall. Obviously it originated from that same idea so it's

00:21:49   they think about it as an evolution. I think there are too many kindles and that there's

00:21:55   probably a kindle in there that they should probably get rid of but that's where we are.

00:22:01   So there's also going on to more kind of entertainment-y news in technology.

00:22:05   There's a few things going on this week that are all relating to movies and how technology

00:22:12   companies are evolving their movie efforts.

00:22:16   The first is a service called Movies Anywhere, which is something that's existed for a while

00:22:20   but wasn't massively useful.

00:22:22   Yeah, Disney Movies Anywhere is what it was.

00:22:24   Yeah, because it is a Disney-owned property and it was you could buy, say you bought a

00:22:29   Disney movie on iTunes or Amazon or Google Play, you could link these

00:22:33   accounts to Disney service and then these movies would be available for you

00:22:37   everywhere both in the Disney movies anywhere app and this is this is the big

00:22:43   part this is the the really mind-boggling part if you bought a

00:22:48   Disney movie on Amazon you could download it on iTunes yes and vice

00:22:53   versa across all of these services this week Disney extended this to other

00:22:59   major studios. It's now called Movies Anywhere, right? They removed the Disney branding from

00:23:03   the name. And it includes Warner Brothers, Universal, Fox, and Sony. I think Paramount

00:23:09   is the big holdout.

00:23:10   Paramount is the big holdout.

00:23:11   But this, so this is wild. So you can buy movies wherever they're cheapest and watch

00:23:17   them wherever you want.

00:23:19   Yeah, I suspect that their, the pricing's going to be the same everywhere.

00:23:23   I'd like to imagine this because you know you can go to to iTunes sometimes and there'll be a

00:23:28   Like a movie of the day. Yeah, that's possible. It's possible, but they'll they'll sink everywhere and and I

00:23:34   had this experience with the Disney stuff where we were visiting my mom in Arizona, and I threw a

00:23:39   fire TV stick in my bag

00:23:42   just for the trip because she doesn't have any Netflix down there and

00:23:47   I thought we might want to watch movies, and I realized that I had Disney movies anywhere

00:23:53   and we brought up the Amazon movie list and in the purchase movies was all the

00:23:59   Marvel movies that I bought on iTunes it was like oh my god that is amazing what

00:24:04   it does is it's really good for so the the background here is that the movie

00:24:09   studios are concerned that with the rise of streaming services people aren't

00:24:13   buying movies anymore because you can just just whatever is on wait wait for

00:24:18   it to be on streaming and they want to so it used to be they were more hostile

00:24:22   to us, but now they want us to, they're motivated to make us happy. And so this is,

00:24:30   I mean, with that motivation out there, this is a consumer friendly feature. It's them

00:24:35   trying to coax us into continuing to buy or resuming buying movies by saying, "Guess

00:24:41   what? We've decided that despite Apple and Amazon fighting over you, if you buy our movie,

00:24:48   You just get it everywhere. You buy a disc with a code, you get it everywhere and it's

00:24:52   not like use the ultraviolet app which links to this voodoo service you've never heard

00:24:57   of. It's like no, no, no. You will get this on all services. If you want it on Google

00:25:03   Play, if you want it on iTunes, if you want it on Amazon, we don't care. We don't care

00:25:06   if you have an Apple TV or an Amazon Fire TV.

00:25:08   Adam: Both, all of them.

00:25:09   Scott: We literally just, you get the movie when you buy the disc or you do a download,

00:25:14   you get the movie. And maybe that'll work. They're trying to make your investment in

00:25:19   buying a movie more valuable because they know that if you're, even if you're not going

00:25:24   to Netflix and watching movies, but you're starting to watch movies on set top boxes,

00:25:28   that stops Blu-ray sales because you can't do anything with the Blu-ray. And if you're

00:25:33   like, you know, us, right? I definitely had this where I will buy an iTunes download.

00:25:38   And one of the reasons is that it's available everywhere on my iPad without me having to

00:25:43   rip the Blu-ray and copy it to Plex and then put it on my iPad. I can literally just go

00:25:48   download in the TV app and it'll download. That is so much more convenient. And so if

00:25:56   you are somebody who might buy a Blu-ray otherwise, this gives you an out, which is no, it's covered

00:26:01   now. No matter what device you want, it's covered. It's super smart. I get why they're

00:26:06   doing it, but it is a really positive, good news for consumers kind of thing. And it works.

00:26:12   a kind of magical and you get some movies when you sign up for it too.

00:26:15   You get Ghostbusters, The Lego Movie and Beaker 06.

00:26:18   Yeah.

00:26:19   Good movies.

00:26:20   Yeah.

00:26:21   And so I signed up and you link your accounts, you sign up to Movies Anywhere.

00:26:25   If you were a Disney Movies Anywhere person you put in that password and stuff at some

00:26:29   point and it like relinks, it copies that data over.

00:26:32   So it's sort of a new service but it'll copy your data from Disney Movies Anywhere.

00:26:36   you log in to iTunes and Amazon and Vudu and Google and like all the services they've got

00:26:43   if you've got accounts there. So if you've got a bunch of ultraviolet movies that are

00:26:47   synced to your Vudu account which I did. I had two. Well, the ultraviolet codes are so

00:26:53   stupid because the app is so bad but there are some digital movies that are over there

00:26:57   and that's actually one of these kind of pro tips is if you've got movies in that stupid

00:27:00   ultraviolet locker and it's linked to Vudu, then you link the Vudu account to movies anywhere

00:27:06   and they all come over. So I've got these ultra violent movies that are suddenly in

00:27:09   my iTunes account.

00:27:10   - I read on the Verge that Apple will give you the 4K HDR versions as well.

00:27:16   - Yeah, it seems like the, one of the things that's happening here is, I think it depends

00:27:24   on every studio's deal, because like, Disney's not on in 4K HDR.

00:27:28   - Disney doesn't have it at all, but like if the movie exists and you bought it somewhere

00:27:31   else.

00:27:32   a resolution blind service.

00:27:37   So like I had some movies that I bought,

00:27:40   not in HD a long time ago, they're all in HD now.

00:27:44   Like that's another thing that the service seems to do

00:27:46   is just grant you like look.

00:27:48   - If you get the best version.

00:27:49   - You bought our movie, you get it in the best version

00:27:52   that's available, yeah.

00:27:54   - How did Disney convince Apple

00:27:59   and Google and Amazon to do this?

00:28:02   - That's a good question.

00:28:03   That's the part that makes me wonder because

00:28:05   - I can't work it out.

00:28:06   - This goes against their business model of erecting walls

00:28:09   that make it harder for people to switch.

00:28:11   - Like I can see how Disney convinced the other studios

00:28:15   because they probably had data that showed

00:28:17   this is good for you, it's been good for us.

00:28:19   - Yeah, and they saw, I mean,

00:28:20   Disney just built this thing, right?

00:28:22   I don't know if Disney built it

00:28:24   and already had talked to the other studios

00:28:26   and they're like, no, no, no, or, but whatever.

00:28:29   Disney built it, they showed that it works

00:28:31   and all the other studios are like, that's good.

00:28:34   And at some point somebody had a conversation

00:28:36   which was, you don't even need to,

00:28:38   don't try to reinvent this.

00:28:40   Let's just do it.

00:28:41   - Let's do it altogether.

00:28:42   - Let's just turn it into something for everyone.

00:28:43   - Yeah, and we'll take our branding off it.

00:28:45   We're gonna make this a consortium deal.

00:28:47   Don't worry about it.

00:28:48   - Yeah, you kick in some money for the development efforts

00:28:49   and we'll turn this into a consortium.

00:28:52   - I just assume that either Disney

00:28:54   or one of the other studios,

00:28:55   when going to these companies for deals,

00:28:57   they're just like, yeah, we're gonna do this,

00:28:58   but you're gonna have to do this now.

00:29:00   - Yeah, 'cause that's the thing is that Amazon and Apple

00:29:05   and Google all had to build in support for this.

00:29:08   - Which is, boggles my mind as well, right?

00:29:10   That it's not just like you have to give us,

00:29:13   you have to give people the movies for free, right?

00:29:15   So you're not getting any money out of it.

00:29:17   You also have to develop hooks

00:29:19   into your existing infrastructure,

00:29:21   which given everything I kind of know about iTunes,

00:29:24   was probably a very difficult thing to do.

00:29:27   - I could see the argument if you're Apple

00:29:30   that it's getting people into your ecosystem too because anything that happens at Google

00:29:40   or Amazon or Voodoo or Ultraviolet or whatever is just kind of swept into iTunes which makes

00:29:48   it super convenient on the Apple TV.

00:29:49   It makes Apple bodies boxes more appealing.

00:29:52   But the argument, the counter argument is all those iTunes movies that people have invested

00:29:56   in that's the only reason that they're still using an Apple TV.

00:29:59   they can get a fire stick. They can just get the fire stick and they're gone. So that's

00:30:04   the risk. It may just be that they're all like, don't forget that the studios have some

00:30:09   leverage here, right? Because they own the content. That's what I assume has happened.

00:30:13   So it may be that just part of the deal here is that the studios have all said, one of

00:30:19   the conditions of us being on your services is that you need to provide this feature that

00:30:25   allows our customers to have the freedom to move among services.

00:30:30   And it is interesting to me, considering Disney is the forerunner of this and Apple don't

00:30:35   get 4K Disney movies, but they've still been able to convince Apple to do this.

00:30:40   It's like it's a weird bargaining thing going on right now.

00:30:44   This may have been a condition of Disney a while ago or even of other studios even before

00:30:48   this got built.

00:30:49   It might have been in the contract.

00:30:51   Which is a provision.

00:30:52   For the 4K stuff.

00:30:53   thinking it's like a provision that says if we bring you a customer for our movie and

00:31:00   say give them this movie you have to do it essentially in the contract. If the contract

00:31:05   is read that way which is we get to arbitrarily designate people as owning a movie for based

00:31:14   on codes or whatever. Which might be like you know you'd buy like a DVD and it would

00:31:19   have an iTunes code in it. Yeah exactly. Something like that. That's like a redemption code but

00:31:22   So it's possible that legally it was in the contract. Yeah.

00:31:25   And the movie studios came to Apple and Amazon and Google and said,

00:31:31   here's how,

00:31:31   here's what we're building to enforce this part of the contract. So we,

00:31:36   you need to do this. So it may be that it wasn't even a negotiation.

00:31:39   It may have already been in the deal and that they decided this is how we want

00:31:43   to implement this. Now here's a date, you know, please. And, and for,

00:31:47   for Apple's part, it sounds like, you know, or any of these companies part,

00:31:52   They have to do some authentication and they have to accept some like movie IDs as being

00:31:59   granted. It's a development project though. Somebody at Apple had to spend time building

00:32:04   this stuff and that allows people to take content out of their ecosystem and likewise

00:32:08   for Amazon and Google.

00:32:09   And as you can imagine, US only.

00:32:12   For now. For now.

00:32:14   But those for now's are infinite.

00:32:16   Well the fact is yeah, we talk about contracts. It's a different contract.

00:32:21   in every single region and so that's a mess. It is a mess. But I think there's hope here

00:32:28   because what this suggests is that the big players in digital distribution and the studios

00:32:36   all feel that this is the way forward or mostly feel that this is the way forward. So it may

00:32:43   end up everywhere over time just because nobody wants to do it the old way.

00:32:49   the old way. This just becomes the way. Yeah, you get a movie, it's got a code inside, you

00:32:55   put that code in at Movies Anywhere and it pops up in your library. Right? You just buy

00:33:01   a movie on iTunes and it's on your Fire Stick. Yeah, I'm interested to see since Blu-rays

00:33:07   are physical objects, they're going to have to print inserts and put them in there, how

00:33:10   long that takes to turn over but I assume every Blu-ray is going to have a code in it

00:33:15   now for this purpose using Movies Anywhere and that'll be an interesting experience too.

00:33:22   But I'm much more inclined to buy a Blu-ray knowing that I get the full HD version on

00:33:28   all the services. The problem is that these guys are also working against themselves if

00:33:33   they really want to sell Blu-rays instead of digital copies because I almost always

00:33:37   buy the digital copy now because it comes out like a month before Blu-ray does. And

00:33:43   And I'm not as obsessive with the Blu-ray quality as John Syracuse is.

00:33:47   I don't want boxes in my house. I don't want more boxes.

00:33:49   Well, and I'm ripping all my Blu-rays and putting them in Plex, right? And so the goal

00:33:54   there is that those Blu-rays are going to end up in a box in the garage. They're not

00:33:58   going to be in my house anymore.

00:34:00   But then it's like, I don't want that. I just want the digital movies.

00:34:02   Yeah. Well, it's a lot less clutter if you do that, which is usually what wins the day

00:34:07   for me. It's like Wonder Woman, Spider-Man Homecoming. I just bought the iTunes version.

00:34:11   And now, I got them everywhere.

00:34:15   Today's episode is brought to you by Squarespace.

00:34:17   Use the offer code upgrade at checkout and you'll get 10% off your first purchase.

00:34:21   Squarespace lets you easily create the website that you have for your next idea or project.

00:34:25   You can make your next move with Squarespace.

00:34:27   They have all of the tools that you need.

00:34:29   You can take advantage of beautiful award winning templates, let your ideas shine.

00:34:33   You can grab a unique domain name for your website so you can give it the brand and identity

00:34:36   that you're looking for.

00:34:37   You have 24/7 customer support in case you need any help.

00:34:41   nothing to install, no patches to worry about, no upgrades needed for Squarespace.

00:34:45   You don't have to worry about it.

00:34:46   They've got it covered.

00:34:47   All of the hosting is taken care of.

00:34:49   They're adding new things to the platform all the time.

00:34:51   You can add a store to your site.

00:34:53   You can have portfolios, blogs.

00:34:54   It doesn't matter what type of website you're looking to build.

00:34:56   Squarespace have the tools to let you do it.

00:34:58   You can sign up for a free trial today with no credit card acquired

00:35:01   just by going to squarespace.com and their plans start at just $12 a month.

00:35:05   When you decide to sign up, use the offer code upgrade

00:35:08   and you'll get 10% off your first purchase and you'll be showing your support for this

00:35:12   show. We thank Squarespace for their support of Relay FM. Squarespace, make your next move,

00:35:16   make your next website. So last week it was announced that Steven Spielberg's Amazing

00:35:22   Stories is to be rebooted for Apple's video efforts project. I don't really know how

00:35:28   to reference that right now but Apple's video thing. Yeah I struggled in writing like

00:35:33   through 4,000 words about this last week to describe it this way but it's Apple's presumably

00:35:39   forthcoming video service or video offering. We're going to talk about it like it's happening

00:35:45   mostly because there's no way it isn't because they hired those two executives and according

00:35:51   to the Wall Street Journal gave them a billion dollar budget and now they're signing on Steven

00:35:57   Spielberg properties like these aren't going to be in we're going to get these just aren't

00:36:01   gonna be in Apple Music anymore. We'll get to that in a minute.

00:36:03   Yeah, Zach von Amberg and Jamie Ehrlich.

00:36:08   Mm-hmm. The Breaking Bad guys, right?

00:36:10   Are the guys, well they're Sony.

00:36:11   Sony.

00:36:12   Which did Breaking Bad, they're not writers, they're, you know,

00:36:16   they're development executives.

00:36:17   They bring the deals in.

00:36:18   And, yeah, exactly. And then they hired somebody from, I think,

00:36:21   WGN America, and they've got a whole...

00:36:25   A serious team.

00:36:25   And apparently in Culver City in LA, so they're like, that's the Apple

00:36:30   Powered

00:36:32   Service office that's got all these TV producers. They're in the industry. This is not

00:36:36   This is not carpool karaoke and Planet of the Apps and it's those are easy jokes to make

00:36:44   But that was like that was literally like Eddie Q and his and the and the beats people

00:36:49   Messing around with that way. That's what Eddie did right? That's what they did. That's what Jimmy Iovine did

00:36:56   Yeah, and then they were like, oh these suck

00:37:00   Yeah, and we need to be serious about this and we're gonna do this that was their test stuff

00:37:05   But we need to be serious. So so it was like version one. Yeah, so people who try to say

00:37:10   Oh, well, they got to do better than carpool karaoke

00:37:12   Yeah, this is all about that

00:37:14   And this is not gonna be like the next one will be amazing stories and then in six months

00:37:19   There will be another Apple video product. That's also not gonna happen

00:37:23   giving these guys that budget is a

00:37:28   Giving these guys that budget is a sign that they're they're gonna make lots of deals lots of deals

00:37:34   So let's talk about this one

00:37:36   What is amazing stories because it's this is a reboot of an existing property right what what is amazing stories

00:37:44   I've never heard of it amazing stories is

00:37:46   an anthology series from the 80s

00:37:50   based on

00:37:53   Basically a the name of a science fiction magazine from the 50s that's still being published

00:37:58   So it was kind of like the Twilight Zone except

00:38:02   Lighter and not as good

00:38:07   I would say there are a lot of people who have who have very fond

00:38:10   Memories of amazing stories my understanding is that those are the people who were sort of 10 years old when it premiered

00:38:15   Yeah, I was 15. I was not impressed

00:38:17   But some people liked it, but the idea is it's an anthology series

00:38:21   So I think Black Mirror except not as dark as Black Mirror because there's nothing as dark as Black Mirror

00:38:26   It's the black, but it's it's a little black so every yeah, so every episode is going to be

00:38:31   different a different story okay, and

00:38:34   It's like that um they say that Brian Fuller is gonna be the showrunner on it

00:38:38   Is it American Horror Story? Is that like that? No that's anthologized across seasons, so you have one story across a season

00:38:44   This is all right the the Iron Mankey show that's that's different things every episode. Yes

00:38:49   I'm Amazon Black Mirror. I think it's like the most

00:38:52   Relevance modern example although there's also a room something or other on HBO. That's like this showtime

00:39:00   I don't want scary things. I don't know so this is this is that this is

00:39:04   genre stories science fiction fantasy horror in

00:39:08   Basically short stories so one episode tells a story and then the week type deal

00:39:14   And that also means director and writer and stars of the week so that presumably they'll have

00:39:19   well-known actors Black Mirror has a lot of very well-known actors in it because they're

00:39:22   not committing to being on a series they're shooting a 60-minute movie and then they're

00:39:28   gone. So it's gonna be like that. That's what that that's what that show is. Brian

00:39:32   Fuller who created Star Trek Discovery who is the showrunner on American Gods. He did

00:39:37   Hannibal he's done a bunch of other stuff. He's apparently the showrunner which is

00:39:42   interesting because he's always sort of said his story for why he left Star Trek Discovery

00:39:49   was that he was too busy running American Gods which always was suspicious but now it's

00:39:53   like extra suspicious. Then again this is an anthology show so Brian Fuller is a good

00:39:59   name.

00:40:00   Steve: He was given a lot of money by Apple.

00:40:01   Chris: Brian Fuller was given a, he's a good name to attach to it creatively and since

00:40:06   it's an anthology series it may be a matter of like let's have Brian Fuller come in and

00:40:11   define what this show is and pick what the stories are. But he doesn't necessarily have

00:40:17   to, maybe he writes the first episode, but otherwise he's finding the writers and the

00:40:21   directors and the stories that they're going to do. And then we'll see. But it's five million

00:40:26   an episode for 10 episodes. That's, that feels like a big budget. Is that big? That's 50

00:40:31   million, but it's out of a billion. So, you know, 20 of those, I mean, you know, obviously

00:40:35   you know, I'd say that's a standard like big budget TV show thing. It's not, it's not cheap

00:40:41   cheap. But I think the Star Trek Discovery episodes cost like 7 million an episode, 8

00:40:46   million an episode. Game of Thrones is probably more like 10 million an episode.

00:40:50   A billion an episode.

00:40:51   So the dragons are really expensive is my understanding.

00:40:54   They eat a lot.

00:40:56   It's been reported as well that Apple are in lots of bidding wars. I mean there's lots

00:41:01   of rumbling about all the bidding wars that they're in.

00:41:03   So they got a billion dollars, right? So they are talking to people and they're bidding

00:41:08   on content. And so the best example, Ryan Murphy who did American Horror, does American

00:41:14   Horror Story has, and Glee and I mean a bunch of stuff.

00:41:19   What a tone shift.

00:41:21   Glee is the outlier for him, I gotta say. Most of his stuff is…

00:41:24   It's like a little dark and then the happiest, happiest ever.

00:41:26   Nip/Tuck was him too, which is a super weird show.

00:41:29   Wow, okay. What an interesting portfolio.

00:41:32   - Yeah, oh yeah, he's an interesting guy.

00:41:34   I don't love his stuff, but he is, he is,

00:41:36   he knows what he is doing and what he's good at.

00:41:41   So he's got a show called "Ratchet," which is based,

00:41:44   it's like, it's a little, you know how they did

00:41:46   the Psycho prequel, which is called "Bates Motel."

00:41:50   This is like evil nurse Ratchet from "One Flew Over

00:41:54   the Cuckoo's Nest," and it's like how she became

00:41:57   - Oh wow.

00:41:57   - Evil nurse Ratchet.

00:41:59   That's the show, bidding wars over it.

00:42:02   Apple was apparently strongly involved

00:42:05   in bidding for that show and didn't get it.

00:42:08   - They lost to Netflix.

00:42:09   - Apparently Netflix got it by packaging together

00:42:14   a super sweet deal for American Horror Story

00:42:17   to continue streaming on Netflix

00:42:19   and a two season commitment to Ratched.

00:42:24   So they put, basically they were like,

00:42:25   we're gonna give you all the money up front.

00:42:27   And Apple kind of was like, no, we're not gonna,

00:42:29   feels rich for Netflix maybe made a deal to push Apple out right like they're

00:42:33   trying to make sure that Apple isn't get that say and we should say Netflix is

00:42:37   content acquisition budget is about seven billion dollars next year so

00:42:41   Apple's only Apple's not leaping to that you can't I mean you can't go from zero

00:42:47   to seven you can't go to the millions that doesn't you can't come through one

00:42:51   billion is stage one of this but the point is they're playing in this game

00:42:54   and they've got money to spend which is why the Spielberg deal is interesting

00:42:58   So on the podcast I do with Tim Goodman on the Uncomfortable TV Talk Machine, we've been

00:43:03   talking about this a while. And in fact, for a couple of weeks we've been saying, "Wait

00:43:07   for it. There will be a big name attached to Apple. They will make a splash." And this

00:43:14   is it, I guess I would say.

00:43:16   Steven Spielberg's a pretty big splash.

00:43:18   But this is the first in a series of deals. Like, there will be another one in a few weeks.

00:43:25   There will be another one after that. They will make with a billion dollars, they could

00:43:28   buy 20 shows. They're not going to do that. They'll probably buy 10 shows and like HBO

00:43:33   has got probably 15 shows going over the course of a year. I think Apple wants to get to maybe

00:43:39   that level. Probably won't get the right off. They'll probably fund some original movies

00:43:44   too. They'll buy some movies. We'll see in the next, I mean I feel like I can tell you

00:43:48   what is going to happen in the next six months. They're going to make a deal with an actor

00:43:51   that you've heard of. They're going to make a deal with the creator of a show that you

00:43:55   It's a Boardwalk Empire type deal, right? Let's find a big movie actor and put them

00:43:59   in a TV show.

00:44:01   Yeah, I mean, and there was a rumor that they're talking to Vince Gilligan who did Breaking

00:44:04   Bad.

00:44:05   Jennifer Aniston apparently as well.

00:44:06   Yeah, well there's a show with Jennifer Aniston and somebody else that has been shopped around

00:44:10   that they've been talking about. Vince Gilligan and Bryan Cranston from Breaking Bad have

00:44:16   both apparently been like talking to them. Apple's also trying to talk to people and

00:44:20   these guys who… these guys have a relationship with the Breaking Bad guys, but they're

00:44:24   also talking to people who they like but they've never worked with before. So, Hollywood Reporter

00:44:30   did a good story about this. So, those are going to pay off. Some of those deals are

00:44:34   going to get made and people are going to be all of a sudden people are going to look

00:44:37   in like six months and they're going to be like, "Oh, Apple's already got five shows

00:44:41   in production." It's still going to take until like the end of next year before they show

00:44:44   up but that's going to happen and because they got a billion dollars to spend and they

00:44:50   will go to film festivals. That's going to happen. They're going to go to a film festival

00:44:53   and they're gonna buy some movies. And people are gonna go like, "Where are those going?"

00:44:57   And the answer is going to be, they're going wherever all this other stuff is going on

00:45:01   Apple's stuff. And they will buy some catalog stuff too. They'll buy streaming rights.

00:45:06   Do you think so?

00:45:07   Yeah, they'll, I feel like, there's a question about what this service is, but I feel like

00:45:14   if it's only these originals, it's gonna feel kinda skimpy. So I would imagine that they

00:45:19   will buy some films and they'll probably play it as, you know, these are some of the most

00:45:28   popular movies on iTunes and now you can stream them for free with your subscription.

00:45:33   Do you think just movies? Do you think they're trying to do TV?

00:45:37   Maybe.

00:45:38   Why, like, you wrote a great piece which came out from like a long Twitter exchange which

00:45:44   I was unfortunately swept off into that you had over the weekend and brought about a lot

00:45:49   stuff and there's one thing you mentioned in here it's like why not just buy Hulu?

00:45:53   Well so Tim Goodman says that he thinks that's what they should do.

00:45:59   Hulu is owned by three TV networks and a cable company.

00:46:05   The TV networks it's a real question whether they want Hulu, they're almost like frenemies

00:46:11   to Hulu like they all probably want to do their own streaming services like ABC Disney

00:46:16   owns part of Hulu. But they're going to launch their own streaming services. So why are they

00:46:22   in Hulu? The idea was Hulu was a thing that networks could do to claim that they were

00:46:28   doing something in streaming video when they weren't.

00:46:30   It was an as well thing. Like we're also here as well.

00:46:33   We also were present, right? It was a tough thing for them to do. They've always had this.

00:46:38   So what Tim has suggested is if Apple buys Hulu, they get Hulu's original content, they

00:46:44   They get Hulu's streaming deals, at least for a while,

00:46:47   'cause those are all renegotiable.

00:46:49   They get Hulu's infrastructure.

00:46:51   If you think about Beats Music,

00:46:53   Apple Music is built on the back of Beats Music,

00:46:55   'cause it's already built.

00:46:56   - That's the example to push.

00:46:58   You'd be like, "Oh, why would they do that?"

00:47:00   Well, they did it already, right?

00:47:01   Apple wanted to launch a streaming music service,

00:47:04   so they bought one, and then changed it into their own.

00:47:07   - And Hulu actually has a live TV service, too,

00:47:09   that could be integrated directly into Apple TV.

00:47:11   Because the real key is like, okay so let's just say this thing costs $10 a month. There

00:47:17   has to be stuff there. You can't start charging $10 a month when you have just one show, right?

00:47:23   Because CBS All Access is charging $5 a month for essentially Star Trek Discovery. Although

00:47:28   they've got, even they have their CBS back catalog.

00:47:31   The stuff.

00:47:32   That's why I think they have to have catalog stuff. So even if they don't buy Hulu, which

00:47:36   would cost them like $25 billion. It would be a very expensive purchase, but Apple might

00:47:42   be actually a better owner for Hulu than the networks and cable companies that own it now.

00:47:48   Counter argument to Hulu, Apple buying Hulu is if they bought Hulu, Hulu's got its own

00:47:51   programming executives and their own original content. They wouldn't necessarily have needed

00:47:55   to hire these guys, but it doesn't preclude them from still buying Hulu.

00:48:00   When I think about buying, they're really buying it for technology if they want to use

00:48:05   it but they're buying out the contracts that's that's the value is yeah he's

00:48:09   buying and they would they would own the Handmaid's Tale which won the Emmy for

00:48:13   Best Drama they would just own it like they want Apple won awards so bad oh oh

00:48:18   sure well that's definitely gonna be part of the part of the story right is

00:48:20   that the Apple wants to is gonna want to win an Emmy Award for something so good

00:48:24   for Amazon yeah it's done really well for Hulu yeah Hulu is on the map now

00:48:27   because of the Handmaid's Tale in a way that they weren't like I think like

00:48:30   transparent and stuff like the amount of awards transparent one it's like it it's

00:48:34   It's legit.

00:48:35   And what's that thing?

00:48:36   Yeah, man, the high castle did that too.

00:48:37   Is that the quote from Bezos?

00:48:38   "Every time we win an Emmy, we sell more shoes" or something like that?

00:48:42   Like it's, you know, I love that quote.

00:48:44   It makes total sense, but like it's funny.

00:48:46   That's the way he thinks too.

00:48:48   So if they don't buy Hulu though, I do think that they need something.

00:48:50   So maybe it's old TV shows.

00:48:53   Old TV shows seems like a weirder fit for them than old movies.

00:48:59   But yeah.

00:49:00   You throw The Office and Parks and Rec and 30 Rock, you know.

00:49:01   They can also buy a lesser streaming service and throw those or a few and throw them all

00:49:07   together so like exists like like acorn is a good example acorn. Well you wouldn't because

00:49:13   you get it in Britain. It's called television. Acorn is a a primarily British TV streaming

00:49:20   service that's got some European TV as well, but it's primarily like British current and

00:49:26   classic British TV and that it's a niche streamer and they could buy some little streamers and

00:49:34   put them together, make some deals for some movies and call it a day and have a better

00:49:40   package of stuff to show. But I do, I agree, if they do ten original series, they're not

00:49:46   going to roll them out at once, right? Because then they'll run for ten weeks and then they'll

00:49:50   be done and then what? Then there's nothing. The crickets are dripping on the surface.

00:49:54   get no push on any of them when there's too many.

00:49:56   So think about HBO's originals, right? HBO's got two or three originals on, maybe four

00:50:01   at a time, and they are staggered across time. That's kind of the level they need to offer.

00:50:06   It would, if that was all, would it be enough? Maybe, but I feel like there's, you know,

00:50:10   I don't want to overstate this, but I think it's important for them to have some catalog

00:50:14   stuff too. And the movies make sense to me from a, like a PR perspective of like, also

00:50:18   we've got these, this great selection of movies that's favorites from the iTunes catalog that

00:50:22   you can watch for free. That's how you spin it, but in reality it's like we made some

00:50:26   content deals for some old movies just like HBO does. Because HBO's got, you know, some

00:50:31   recent releases and then they've got a catalog of old, weird old stuff. Like I watched Batman

00:50:36   Forever on HBO because we were doing it for the incomparable and I went to Fan TV, which

00:50:44   is like a streaming catalog, and they're like, "Oh, it's on HBO Go." I'm like, "Great." And

00:50:48   terrible but it was there so I could watch that so free do you think do you

00:50:53   think this is a separate service this is gonna be Apple music right big question

00:50:57   because it really feels like you put in a billion dollars into this don't call

00:51:00   it music when it's not music well if they if they rolled into Apple music

00:51:04   they'd have to change the name I think that would be bad for everything if I

00:51:08   had to pick I would pick if I had a guess about what's gonna happen I'd say

00:51:12   it's a separate service because music consumers and video consumers are

00:51:16   different. Apple wants more money from consumers. Maybe they offer a bundle or something. But

00:51:21   it's like it's a separate service. Amazon you get video when you get Prime. You still

00:51:25   have to pay extra if you want the full music library. They still have that as a separate

00:51:28   service. Google is talking about rolling Play into YouTube Red. Google Play All Music, All

00:51:37   Access Music.

00:51:38   Geoff - Now they're like saying if you get YouTube Music is what they're really pushing

00:51:43   now.

00:51:44   Well, the Google Play Music is going to get rolled in there too. But it's like $15 a month.

00:51:51   It's not a $9, $7 a month video service at that point. So, my gut feeling is it will

00:51:56   be a, we'll say $10 a month, maybe it's $7 a month or $5 a month with a 90-day trial.

00:52:03   So when you get an Apple TV, you get three months of it for free and all of that is there.

00:52:08   They'll do that and then maybe there's a bundle where you can get the package deal for both

00:52:14   Apple Music and Apple whatever.

00:52:16   Yeah, they already used a good name. So, Apple TV is taken.

00:52:21   I think Apple TV is a good name for it anyway. I think that Apple, why not just, the TV app

00:52:27   is already there, right?

00:52:28   Yeah, it just becomes Apple TV Box and the Apple TV service.

00:52:31   And there's an argument about like, well what about movies? Movies aren't TV. It's

00:52:34   like Apple has, with the TV app, Apple has already said that they consider any video

00:52:39   that you watch on a device that you own TV.

00:52:41   But you're watching it on even the movies you watch them on the TV.

00:52:44   Yeah, right. Or on your iPad but there's a TV app on your iPad so you're either watching

00:52:48   it on your TV via an Apple TV or you're watching it on your iPad or iPhone via the TV app.

00:52:53   It's all TV. So I think the Apple TV as a product you know conflating it with Apple

00:53:00   TV as a service maybe that's I don't know maybe that's been the plan all along but I

00:53:04   feel like…

00:53:05   It's a way to help sell Apple TV.

00:53:06   But I feel like that's the idea and then and then it's only available on the Apple

00:53:10   TV as a streamer box. And so if you want Apple TV, you get an Apple TV and then you get Apple

00:53:16   TV.

00:53:17   Is that a problem? Because like if I want Netflix shows, if I want Amazon shows, I can

00:53:21   get them mostly anywhere. If Apple creates their own TV shows, should they restrict it

00:53:28   on the Apple and iOS devices and TV devices?

00:53:32   Depends on what they want to do, right? I think Apple has this kind of vision of their

00:53:37   revenue as a combination of things. If this was a pure services revenue thing, they would

00:53:46   put it everywhere.

00:53:47   MATT: Make an app for Android.

00:53:48   JASON: But they want…

00:53:50   MATT; Apple Music's on Android.

00:53:52   JASON; Yeah, but is that the legacy of there being beats on Android?

00:53:56   MATT; I don't know. I don't think so.

00:53:58   JASON; They had an existing app…

00:53:59   MATT; They could have just shut that down.

00:54:00   JASON; An existing developer. They could have. It's a good counter argument and I thought

00:54:05   about that and it's possible. My gut feeling is the most likely scenario is Apple wants

00:54:11   this to be a revenue generator for services but their whole services strategy is to get

00:54:16   more revenue out of people who are their customers, not get random services revenue from people

00:54:23   who don't have Apple products. So that they, I think they want to view this as a way to

00:54:27   drive people to buy an Apple TV.

00:54:29   I think that would be a mistake.

00:54:33   I don't know. I could go either way. I mean...

00:54:35   Because the Apple TV is too expensive.

00:54:37   Does Apple... The question is, does Apple want this service,

00:54:41   does Apple want the Apple TV service to be everywhere and...

00:54:47   Or do they want it to be a lever to use to get people to buy an Apple device?

00:54:52   I think if the plan is, which I think it's obvious is more services revenue,

00:54:57   I think the best thing you do is make it available to everybody.

00:55:02   If your goal is we want to get more recurring revenue the easiest way to do that is to put it on Android as well

00:55:09   I think it's a good argument. You open it up to anyone with a device. Yeah, it's a good it's a good argument

00:55:14   I see they're good arguments on either side. Yeah, so I

00:55:17   Don't know what the right thing to do from a business standpoint is

00:55:21   I do know that if I put myself in the mind of Apple. Mm-hmm

00:55:28   Restricting it to Apple hardware seems most likely thing to do

00:55:32   Yeah

00:55:33   But the precedent of Apple music on Android is what puts a question mark over my head because Apple music is the same

00:55:39   strategy it's the strategy of we need recurring revenue so what I would also say is

00:55:44   This is a video service it wouldn't shock me if what they do is they put it on

00:55:51   Android and

00:55:54   They put it in iTunes on Mac and PC

00:55:58   but restricted to Apple TV as a streamer box

00:56:02   and say look if you want our TV service on your TV

00:56:05   - No that's what I think they would do

00:56:06   they put it on Android so you can watch it on the go

00:56:08   but if you want to watch it on the television

00:56:10   the only way to watch it

00:56:11   - Buy our box

00:56:12   - Yeah they won't be on

00:56:13   they won't make an Amazon Fire app

00:56:15   they won't make a Chromecast compatible thing

00:56:17   but I think they would make an Android app

00:56:19   to watch it on the go

00:56:20   - And people will say oh well this is ridiculous

00:56:22   I'm never gonna pay money for this

00:56:23   I'm never gonna buy an Apple TV for it

00:56:25   Okay, but when they announce that fill in the blank creator of your favorite show has

00:56:33   a new show with fill in the blank star that you love.

00:56:37   Breaking Bad 2.

00:56:38   Yeah, from the producers of Breaking Bad starring this amazing set cast that you love and then

00:56:44   there's this other show that also sounds really cool that they're doing and they're only on

00:56:48   Apple TV, then you start to go, "Well, Apple TV also does do Netflix and Amazon. It's a

00:56:55   little expensive but it's the only way I'm going to get to watch the show and will everybody

00:57:00   do that?" No, of course not. There's a lot of arguments in the tech world are, "Well,

00:57:04   everybody won't do it and therefore it will be a failure." And it's like, this is what

00:57:07   I hear about the Star Trek being on CBS All Access instead of Netflix in the US. And they're

00:57:12   like, "Oh, well, not as many people are going to watch it so it's a failure." It's like,

00:57:16   actually, they're going to make…

00:57:18   CBS will make more money this way.

00:57:19   They're building an entire streaming service on the back of this thing. It's probably

00:57:23   going to work for them. They probably don't care that it's going to be 10% of the viewers

00:57:28   that they would get if they put it on television because that's not the point. The point

00:57:32   is the money and the ongoing subscriber revenue and all of those things. So, that's what

00:57:39   I come back to with the Apple thing is, yeah, they're going to suppress viewership. The

00:57:42   The only people who care about the fact that that amazing new show is not going to be seen

00:57:46   potentially by as many people because it requires you to have Apple hardware are the people

00:57:51   who are creating the shows because they want to be seen.

00:57:55   And that's Tim Goodman wrote this piece of the Hollywood Reporter.

00:57:57   It's a really great piece.

00:57:58   Part of the deal here is money talks in Hollywood but they also care about the things they make,

00:58:05   the creators and there is some risk that if Apple's service is perceived as being super

00:58:15   limited then it will make deals go sour.

00:58:25   When do you think we're going to start to see some of this stuff happening?

00:58:31   Next fall.

00:58:32   - Okay.

00:58:33   - I can't--

00:58:34   - So you reckon a couple of shows

00:58:36   will be announced as in development?

00:58:37   Like was this--

00:58:38   - Well no, I think in the next six months,

00:58:42   Apple will make, will close like--

00:58:44   - Lots of deals.

00:58:45   - 10 deals.

00:58:46   - So was this 12, 15 deals? - 12, 15 deals.

00:58:48   - Officially announced or was it--

00:58:50   - Just reported.

00:58:51   Although it's been reported for a while

00:58:53   that they've been talking and talking to Apple,

00:58:56   but this is the Wall Street Journal reported this.

00:58:58   - But like, was this reported as a rumor

00:59:00   or was it like, this is an official release, this is done?

00:59:03   - Both, it was, it was, oh, it hasn't been official.

00:59:05   - Oh, okay, okay.

00:59:06   - It is reported by the Wall Street Journal

00:59:07   as having happened.

00:59:09   - Okay.

00:59:10   - Not as rumored, but as a fact that they made this deal.

00:59:13   - Right.

00:59:14   - Previously in the Hollywood Reporter,

00:59:15   it was rumored that they were talking.

00:59:17   But Wall Street Journal anyway says it happened,

00:59:19   deal is done.

00:59:21   So, but they haven't said anything about it.

00:59:23   And I think that's one of the challenges here

00:59:24   is that Apple probably doesn't want to say anything

00:59:26   about this until they have a service to launch.

00:59:29   So we may just get a lot of leaks from,

00:59:31   Wall Street Journal's a little surprising,

00:59:33   I think we're gonna get a lot of leaks from Variety

00:59:34   and the Hollywood Reporter and Deadline.

00:59:36   - I mean, Wall Street Journal would have been surprising,

00:59:39   but it's technology, it's technology related, right?

00:59:41   They can just do our sources, they're gonna get it.

00:59:42   - At some point-- - But it is better for Apple

00:59:44   to be in Variety and the Hollywood Reporter,

00:59:46   'cause that's where the industry is and cares.

00:59:49   - So the deals are gonna happen over the next six months.

00:59:53   I would say you're gonna see rolling thunder from Apple.

00:59:56   Like it's gonna be-- - It's very serious.

00:59:58   It's going to be a lot of deals. People are going to, it's not going to be just amazing

01:00:02   stories, right? I feel like these guys are there to make deals and they've been given

01:00:07   money according to Wall Street Journal. They've been given a billion dollars to make deals.

01:00:10   They're going to make deals.

01:00:11   And I bet if they needed more money, they'll get it, right?

01:00:13   My guess is that Apple has an idea of like, we want to launch this in the fall. We want

01:00:16   to announce it in June at WWDC and we'll launch it in the fall or we'll announce it. They'll

01:00:22   probably announce it in June and we'll announce the launch date at the iPhone event in the

01:00:27   fall and it will launch sometime in the fall. And that sometime will probably be determined

01:00:31   by when the shows are ready, but that's about how long it takes. Like to go from making

01:00:38   a deal to doing, having a script, doing the casting, setting up the production, shooting

01:00:44   the show, editing the show, that takes time. It takes a lot of time to make a TV show.

01:00:49   So I think it's most likely that it'll be a new Apple TV service next fall.

01:00:57   What do you think about originals versus existing properties?

01:01:07   For Apple launching this now, does it make sense for them to try and create purely original

01:01:13   things or is it more sensible for them to do stuff like buying an old series and rebooting

01:01:17   it?

01:01:18   Well, this is a programming question and it's the same with Netflix. Netflix's strategy

01:01:23   is get something for everyone and Netflix releases so many shows because they're paying

01:01:28   seven times as much as Apple is going to pay.

01:01:29   I can't believe the amount of originals they have. There's so many that I've never heard

01:01:33   of.

01:01:34   Yeah. And it's so easy to miss them. And they will also do, they'll do Fuller House, right?

01:01:40   They'll do a broad sitcom that's not going to appeal necessarily to the same people to

01:01:45   whom Stranger Things appeals.

01:01:47   Or Knuckles or something.

01:01:48   Or yeah, exactly, or Bloodline or Master of None.

01:01:52   - Or BoJack.

01:01:53   - That would be a great game show is like,

01:01:56   we go back and forth trying to name

01:01:58   as many Netflix originals as possible,

01:02:00   but it might be too long, it goes on forever.

01:02:02   - But my favorite thing about Netflix

01:02:05   being outside of the US is all of the deals

01:02:07   that they do with US networks.

01:02:08   So we love Jane the Virgin.

01:02:10   - So, right.

01:02:11   - And now it is streaming weekly on Netflix.

01:02:15   - Which Netflix, and that's counter to Netflix's brand,

01:02:17   because Netflix's brand is about dropping a whole season and binging it, but Netflix

01:02:21   has made a lot of deals. They're doing that with Star Trek Discovery too. And it comes

01:02:26   out every week and there are a lot of US shows that instead of making a deal with a British

01:02:29   TV channel and then a French TV channel and a German TV channel, they just make a deal

01:02:34   with Netflix. Netflix buys it for the whole world and you get it the next day everywhere

01:02:38   in the world and it releases weekly. It's really good. So that's a nice sidebar which

01:02:44   is I expect that Apple will roll this service out if not initially then very rapidly internationally.

01:02:51   This is a thing that Apple has over Amazon and Google which is they really try to play

01:02:57   internationally with their entertainment services and like Amazon is bad at that. Amazon is

01:03:03   in like a handful of countries. So I imagine these deals that they're making, they're going

01:03:07   to make for the originals anyway. They're going to make for worldwide.

01:03:09   Adam: Yeah, because they own the content so they can put it wherever they want, right?

01:03:13   And they already have the distribution method.

01:03:15   Right.

01:03:16   But like if all the original stuff, it would be easy.

01:03:17   There's well, we're making the deals.

01:03:19   So like we'll just decide it's going to be worldwide.

01:03:21   So in terms of what the programming is, I don't think they don't have a $7 billion budget.

01:03:25   I don't think they're going to cast a wide net like Netflix.

01:03:28   I don't think they're going to make Fuller House.

01:03:30   HBO is what I keep coming back to.

01:03:32   You could say Showtime, you could say Stars.

01:03:34   But I feel like Apple, Apple feels like a premium cable to me, like in terms of their

01:03:41   brand.

01:03:42   Yeah, so far they've not done a good job of that, but it's all Apple Music though, right?

01:03:46   So that's a good thing. So they didn't launch the TV service with Carpool Karaoke.

01:03:51   So this is the question is in that meeting with

01:03:54   Eddie Q and maybe Tim Cook and

01:03:56   And Zach and Jamie the TV executives. What did they say about the brand of Apple?

01:04:02   Like what did they say? We want to be family-friendly. Did they say we want to be like HBO?

01:04:06   Did they say we want to be like Netflix? What did they say? My gut feeling is they want to be HBO

01:04:11   They want prestige they want to win awards, but they also want Game of Thrones

01:04:15   Everybody in the TV industry wants Game of Thrones Jeff Bezos wants the names next Game of Thrones

01:04:20   Netflix wants the next Game of Thrones everybody wants that so of course they said that but that's my gut feeling is like HBO is a

01:04:27   Good model because they have huge international hits. They've got prestige

01:04:31   They win awards they got comedies. They got dramas. They got some docu series and

01:04:39   They wrap all that up and that's their service that they sell to cable subscribers or over the top with HBO now

01:04:47   So that's my gut feeling is that is that maybe it'll be a little different

01:04:51   There's a question about like how how gritty will they get if they get like a really grim and gritty thing?

01:04:56   Will Apple be concerned about that being part of the Apple brand?

01:04:59   I think that gets overplayed where people talk about Apple and Disney and Pixar

01:05:02   I think I think it gets overstated sell the movies and TV show will be tea

01:05:06   - Yeah, there will be rated R, TVMA content.

01:05:11   - You can buy Game of Thrones on iTunes.

01:05:14   - Yeah, you can buy the underrated versions

01:05:17   of movies on iTunes.

01:05:18   - Didn't know that.

01:05:19   - So I don't think, but those aren't from Apple, right?

01:05:22   Those are from a studio in Apple's The Reseller.

01:05:24   This is like from Apple, Apple Presents.

01:05:27   But I still think, my gut feeling is,

01:05:29   it's still gonna be stuff like HBO.

01:05:30   - Because the thing is, if the plan is you want the awards,

01:05:34   well, sometimes people are gonna get naked.

01:05:36   'Cause that's what happens in award-winning TV shows.

01:05:39   - It's true.

01:05:40   - You're just gonna have to deal with that.

01:05:41   Like it can't, these two things come together.

01:05:43   - They're not all gonna be like that.

01:05:44   But I think they will push the envelope with some stuff

01:05:46   and then they'll have some other stuff that is less so.

01:05:49   It wouldn't surprise me if they're not quite as aggressive

01:05:51   with the adult content as HBO,

01:05:54   that some of their stuff will be more adult

01:05:56   and some of the stuff will be more kind of like TV level.

01:06:01   - Yeah.

01:06:02   - They'll lose some TV and some cable TV

01:06:03   a balance. Because not everybody wants stuff like that.

01:06:08   But that's my gut feeling is that they'll do that and that the first slate will reflect

01:06:13   that. But we'll see. We'll see what the marching orders are that these execs have been given

01:06:17   because that's part of the deal. That's their magic stuff is they know people but they also

01:06:21   are trying to adhere to what the promise of the brand is. What are they trying to bring

01:06:28   to people because in the end Apple does want to build a service where people know it has

01:06:34   an identity like I know what I get when I subscribe to Apple TV like I know what I get

01:06:39   when I subscribe to HBO or Showtime.

01:06:42   I bet you're so happy about this because this is just like Jason's wheelhouse.

01:06:47   My world's colliding here.

01:06:48   TV and technology.

01:06:49   It is pretty awesome.

01:06:51   Well it's fun.

01:06:52   I mean I love talking about it.

01:06:55   I will say it does frustrate me when I hear the carpool karaoke jokes because they are

01:07:02   justified. Planet of the Apps jokes are the best too because that was not a show I liked.

01:07:09   They are justified to joke about that because Apple's flailing kind of attempts at TV have

01:07:14   been not great. But they hired these guys.

01:07:19   All of this was done before they hired these people.

01:07:21   Right.

01:07:21   Like it was done.

01:07:22   Yeah, they hired these guys in June. That was the day. That day in June. That was the

01:07:29   day that Apple got serious about this.

01:07:30   That was the time that Eddy got taken off the project, right?

01:07:32   Yeah, well I think they report to Eddy, but one of the good things about Eddy Cue, I think,

01:07:38   is that he knows to put the professionals in charge of their business. And this is like,

01:07:44   these guys are set up in Culver City and they're doing Apple TV. And that's what they're doing.

01:07:48   And that was the day that Apple got serious about video.

01:07:50   And all the jokes are totally earned, but if you're analyzing Apple making a deal with

01:07:56   Spielberg using the lens of Planet of the Apps...

01:07:59   You're looking at it wrong.

01:08:01   Yeah, that's malpractice.

01:08:02   You're looking at it wrong.

01:08:03   So the downside of this is I've been paying attention to this long enough that I see those

01:08:08   takes, I've seen those takes in the last week, and they infuriate me.

01:08:12   Because that's somebody who is either willfully misunderstanding or just completely doesn't

01:08:20   get it.

01:08:21   It's just dying to make the joke, right?

01:08:22   Yeah, the joke is more important.

01:08:24   And it's like, hey, we should all laugh at Planet of the Apps.

01:08:26   Do you know what?

01:08:27   I bet there were some really bad Netflix originals, like at the start.

01:08:30   I bet there were some terrible ones.

01:08:32   Sure.

01:08:33   But this is like even before, imagine like Netflix made its own TV series and put it

01:08:37   out on DVDs before they had streaming.

01:08:40   It's like the before time.

01:08:41   is a hard line between when they hired these guys and what came before because that was

01:08:47   the moment that Apple became a Hollywood player and those guys were hired in June but they

01:08:52   didn't start until late August. So now is when this is all going to happen. Now they've

01:08:57   taken, they started taking meetings and planning their attack. They've made one acquisition.

01:09:02   There will be many more. Apple has enough money to buy 20 original series at an average

01:09:07   of 50 million per. I don't think they'll do that and I think that the cost will be

01:09:12   up and down. I think they'll buy some documentaries and I think they'll buy some movies and

01:09:16   I think they'll do some other stuff but it'll be fun to see what they are. That's

01:09:20   the thing that fascinates me about this too is like what is an Apple video service? What

01:09:24   does it mean? Who is it for? What's it going to look like and what big names that are familiar

01:09:30   to us are going to be attached to the Apple brand for the first time? That's kind of

01:09:34   fun right like some matter you love who suddenly is going to be showing up on

01:09:37   stage at an Apple event somewhere to promote their TV show they're all gonna

01:09:40   be on stage oh yeah this is a life now Spielberg with King no bingo man with

01:09:48   art with our keynote draft we're gonna have to start we're gonna have a whole

01:09:50   section of our draft oh they're gonna Apple where they start a big TV shows

01:09:55   they're like oh we have a new show with an in Bryant Cranston comes on the stage

01:09:59   and he's vintage Apple jacket and he spends a few minutes talking about I

01:10:03   I think you stole that from Drake.

01:10:05   Today's show is brought to you by Balance.

01:10:08   Balance have just launched Balance Open.

01:10:10   This is a free open source Mac app for checking Coinbase.

01:10:13   You may be familiar with the Balance team as they made Balance for Mac, which is an app

01:10:17   that can monitor all your bank balances and card transactions.

01:10:20   Coinbase, which is a popular marketplace for cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin and Ethereum,

01:10:25   is what you use when you're looking at Balance Open.

01:10:28   Balance Open is the best open source digital wallet

01:10:31   to help you keep track of all of the cryptocurrency

01:10:34   that you've got your fingers in.

01:10:35   If you don't know anything about all of this stuff,

01:10:37   it's totally fine.

01:10:38   It's totally fine, don't worry about it.

01:10:40   Balance are gonna help you.

01:10:41   They wanna teach you about cryptocurrencies

01:10:43   and they wanna give you a little head start

01:10:44   to get you on your way.

01:10:46   The first 1,000 people that go to bal.money/relay

01:10:49   will get $2 in Ethereum, the Ethereum,

01:10:52   I think it's called Ether,

01:10:53   it's the Ethereum currency called Ether,

01:10:55   for free as a gift from Balance.

01:10:56   Go check it out today, find out more

01:10:58   and try out Balance Open,

01:10:59   and you can dip your toes into the world of cryptocurrency.

01:11:03   Our thanks to Balance for their support of this show.

01:11:06   Jason, it is time for #AskUpgrade.

01:11:09   So people send in their questions every week,

01:11:11   use the #AskUpgrade and they go into a lovely document

01:11:14   which we can pull out.

01:11:15   And today we will start with Andrew.

01:11:16   And Andrew asked, "Mac desktops have the option

01:11:19   "to get a magic mouse and a magic trackpad

01:11:21   "when you buy them.

01:11:22   "Is there a reason to do this?"

01:11:24   - Well, this should be for you, right?

01:11:26   Don't you have two input devices?

01:11:29   So I use a Wacom tablet and a trackpad.

01:11:33   So what I do, and I have and did use a mouse and trackpad,

01:11:37   and I've got some RSI problems.

01:11:37   - Yeah, I know other people who do the same thing

01:11:39   because of RSI.

01:11:40   They use certain movements they use on their off hand,

01:11:43   and then they have another hand for other movements.

01:11:45   - To find movement.

01:11:46   So what you get to do is, by having two input methods,

01:11:49   you get to give dominant hands a break,

01:11:53   which is really good for RSI,

01:11:54   so you're kind of moving around what you're doing.

01:11:57   So say for example, just in general web browsing,

01:12:00   and moving around the machine,

01:12:01   if I'm panning around, I use the trackpad.

01:12:04   If I'm trying to click something, I use my Wacom tablet.

01:12:07   When I'm editing, my trackpad is used

01:12:09   for navigating the timeline of logic, right?

01:12:12   So I zoom around, zoom in,

01:12:13   that's all with gestures with my right hand,

01:12:16   and then my left hand is doing all the important work

01:12:18   with Wacom tablet.

01:12:19   So the reason to do this is that it gives you a way

01:12:22   to kind of mix everything up, and if you get used to it,

01:12:25   it's a really efficient and kind of cool way.

01:12:28   It kind of feels a bit minority report like

01:12:30   to have your hands doing all this stuff at all times.

01:12:33   So yeah, that's probably why they offer it

01:12:35   because it is actually a nice pairing to have.

01:12:38   Josh asked, "Will we ever see mouse pointer support

01:12:41   on iOS or just the iPad?"

01:12:43   Do you think we're ever gonna get a mouse for iOS?

01:12:46   - Oh.

01:12:48   - I feel like it's getting closer all the time.

01:12:49   - I feel like it's getting closer

01:12:50   and that anything that we would assume Apple

01:12:53   would never do on the on iOS we need to throw away because they've done all sorts of things

01:12:58   that we assume they would never do. I you know I posted my friend Chip wrote a story

01:13:03   on six colors a couple years ago about Bluetooth pointing device support in iOS and I agree

01:13:11   with him and I I feel like ever since they did the text insertion cursor thing that I

01:13:18   I wish they would just support Bluetooth pointing devices.

01:13:21   Just like support them for that.

01:13:25   And maybe for some other gestures, right?

01:13:27   Like it doesn't have to be a big thing,

01:13:29   but I don't want a mouse,

01:13:32   or I don't want a cursor on screen all the time

01:13:36   that you click around on.

01:13:37   I don't think that's the right interface for iOS.

01:13:40   But I think that they could do more.

01:13:44   I think that there are cases

01:13:45   where a pointing device is useful.

01:13:47   Selecting text. Let me tell you as somebody who writes all the time

01:13:51   Selecting text that that that I beam cursor that they have where you put two fingers down on the iPad or your 3d touch on

01:13:59   The on the iPhone it's great

01:14:02   It frustrates me that I can't just have a trackpad

01:14:06   When I'm sitting on my iPad sitting at my at a table looking at my iPad

01:14:13   To do that like that would be great. Just the little text selection cursor. Yeah would be enough right? I don't need a

01:14:19   Whole windowing system. That's all I need. So I hope they do it. The other thing is

01:14:25   virtual like like

01:14:28   Consoles like screens and all of that some of those there you can buy

01:14:32   Citrix has a while ago

01:14:36   You have to buy that special mouse Citrix have it and then jump desktop and the Citrix X1 Citrix X1 maps

01:14:42   which I bought to try out and it works really great.

01:14:45   Like, I would love to be able to use a mouse with Google Sheets

01:14:48   because Google Sheets can get real complicated.

01:14:51   Yeah.

01:14:51   And if I could use a trackpad built into it,

01:14:54   like just a trackpad built into the smart keyboard,

01:14:57   I would be very happy with that.

01:14:59   Also as somebody who has, who uses the iPad in a stand with a keyboard all the time.

01:15:04   Yep.

01:15:04   And you do too.

01:15:05   Yep.

01:15:07   I'd really rather when I'm, when all I'm doing is like scrolling and swiping,

01:15:11   I would really love to be able to do that with while keeping my hands down.

01:15:15   Yeah.

01:15:17   I'll wait to score a webpage without scoring the screen.

01:15:19   And this is nice, right? Please don't tell me to buy a laptop. No, no,

01:15:22   don't do it. Don't, don't email Myke. Um, the, the, uh,

01:15:27   the fact is you should not have to buy a Citrix mouse, right?

01:15:33   Yeah. You should be able to use, again,

01:15:37   individual apps could support it.

01:15:39   It doesn't have to be that there's a big black arrow

01:15:41   on the screen all the time.

01:15:43   But like, yeah, if I'm in screens and I have a,

01:15:46   I shouldn't, like screens has a mode

01:15:48   where you use your iPhone as a track pad.

01:15:50   And that's cool, but you know what's better than an iPhone

01:15:53   as a track pad?

01:15:54   - Track pad. - A track pad.

01:15:56   - Funnily enough.

01:15:56   - So if I have to do that, there are certain circumstances

01:15:59   where I think it would be useful.

01:16:01   I think the fear is that you're opening Pandora's box

01:16:04   and turning it back into a Mac,

01:16:05   but that's not what we're saying.

01:16:07   Just like drag and drop and multitasking

01:16:10   and all of these other things

01:16:11   that they brought from the desktop,

01:16:13   don't turn it into a Mac.

01:16:14   It's a different take on it.

01:16:16   I don't think iOS is a platform

01:16:18   that can't take advantage of pointing devices

01:16:23   because we've already seen that in certain cases it can.

01:16:27   So why not just embrace that for the edge cases?

01:16:30   It's not gonna be a fundamental part of the product,

01:16:32   but for the edge cases, why not do that?

01:16:34   Why not let the, here's the crazy ones

01:16:37   who want to pair a trackpad, let's do it.

01:16:38   And I will say, one of my thought exercises

01:16:42   that I like to do is imagining a desktop iPad,

01:16:47   you know, imagining a 24 inch iPad.

01:16:49   Even if it's in a position where you can touch it

01:16:55   and all of that, you're probably gonna have

01:16:57   an external keyboard and a pointing device

01:17:00   would be really good in that scenario too.

01:17:01   - It might be a bit too big to be like

01:17:03   just pulling stuff around on the screen all the time.

01:17:06   - Yeah, but for gestures and flipping around and all that,

01:17:08   yeah, you may not wanna always be touching the screen.

01:17:10   - But like reaching the top right-hand corner of the screen,

01:17:12   you know, if it's 24 inches,

01:17:14   'cause it's probably gonna be suspended

01:17:15   or like on the table or something.

01:17:17   - And again, not asking for a Mac solution here

01:17:19   where it just turns it into a Mac.

01:17:20   I'm saying maybe products like that,

01:17:23   and even an iPad that's sitting upright

01:17:25   with a external keyboard could be improved

01:17:29   by having the ability to add a pointing device.

01:17:32   So Josh, the answer to your question is,

01:17:35   I don't know if we're ever gonna see it,

01:17:37   but I hope we do.

01:17:38   I feel like the genie is out of the bottle

01:17:40   with the iBeam cursor for text selection.

01:17:43   Like if you're gonna allow us to move a cursor

01:17:45   on the screen, Apple,

01:17:47   let me have a device that lets me do it more easily.

01:17:50   - Adam says, you guys both often discuss

01:17:53   your frequent use of Dropbox and Google Docs.

01:17:57   Why not do both files and docs in Google Drive?

01:18:00   So one of the reasons for me is I forget that Google Drive is a storage solution

01:18:07   for anything other than Google documents and photos.

01:18:11   Which aren't really stored there.

01:18:13   No.

01:18:13   Right. It's just a link to the cloud.

01:18:14   So this is why. Because the documents don't really exist in Google Drive,

01:18:18   like the Google Docs stuff, I forget that I can put anything in it.

01:18:22   Right? Because it's just like, well, this is just the place where files that don't exist exist.

01:18:28   Yes, that's right.

01:18:29   And the people that I collaborate with, everybody uses Dropbox.

01:18:33   I'm not going to say to someone, "Hey, use Google Drive instead."

01:18:36   And apps integrate better with the Dropbox API. That's why.

01:18:40   So Google Drive is just where my docs live.

01:18:43   It's not my storage solution.

01:18:46   Yeah, I have not tried to do, like, shared folders and all of that.

01:18:50   You're right, everybody's got Dropbox.

01:18:53   It's the power of freemium too in a way that, like,

01:18:55   even though you can get Google Drive with free space too, it's like,

01:18:58   Everybody's got the Dropbox app installed everybody knows how to how to do that

01:19:02   and so it's sort of like I've already adopted it and

01:19:05   It and I think it's powerful. Also. It has the strength like so many apps do of being what Dropbox does

01:19:13   Whereas Google Drive is not what Google does it's a an adjunct and so I feel like Dropbox is always going to be hungrier at

01:19:22   Building features and reliability for Dropbox then Google is for Google Drive. They're very hungry with the design

01:19:29   Have you seen my concern is that Dropbox is losing focus? Yeah, and now they're saying well, we're a

01:19:35   We're really not a company for storage

01:19:37   We're a place to

01:19:38   Collaborate to collaborate and design and all that with Dropbox paper and all that's like no that's not what you are. Sorry

01:19:44   Adrian wants to know Jason you still using todoist I am

01:19:51   I went through a period I went through about a week where I forgot to open it

01:19:56   But it was a weird week it was a and I was traveling and it was weird

01:20:02   But yes, I am using it is I've got a bunch of monthly tasks in there for the six colors magazine

01:20:08   I've got a bunch of weekly tasks, especially for download having to

01:20:11   schedule

01:20:13   Download podcast guests and make sure that the download topic list is is up and running. How's that going Steven?

01:20:20   He's away doing it now. He's gone already

01:20:23   and I have

01:20:25   Podcast posting to do's in there now where I've got like free agents every other week

01:20:31   There's a post so it's it's still on my calendar, but it's also in my to-do list

01:20:36   My my complaints my issues with to-do lists are still

01:20:40   that I

01:20:43   Keep thinking of things based on that. I need to do them by a certain date, but they take more time and get frustrated

01:20:50   that I can't say like I have this I have to watch so like I have to watch these movies

01:20:57   for an incomparable episode recording on Friday. So I want a thing that says remember you have

01:21:02   to watch two movies by Friday. Todoist doesn't want to do that. Todoist wants me to either

01:21:08   put that on Friday in which case I'm not going to see it until it's too late or I have to

01:21:12   create it earlier which is not the real deadline in order to tell me I could do that and have

01:21:17   So you want like start dates. Yeah, yeah, this is, and we talked about this before,

01:21:21   it's like that's one of the challenges I've got with it is it really thinks of like todoist

01:21:25   as this is a relatively small thing you can check off on a certain day and that's not

01:21:32   quite what I want. I wanted to kind of hover over me and say remember this needs to be

01:21:36   due by Friday and it will take four hours. Due by Friday, D-U-E by Friday. It's totally

01:21:43   different. But yes I am. I am trying to integrate it. I am trying to find ways to, what's

01:21:49   happening now is that I have things that fall out of the Snell filing system which is my

01:21:52   brain and I'm like, "Oh yeah." And I think this is the sort of thing I should

01:21:58   put into Do-It. So we'll see how it goes. But I am sticking with it for now along, you

01:22:03   know, the calendar still is a thing that I use because it is how my brain works but Do-It

01:22:08   is helping out.

01:22:09   It's a compliment.

01:22:10   It's helping me out for now.

01:22:11   Dalton asked, "Why is the Chromecast usually left out when talking about TV Box competition?"

01:22:17   It's true, when we talk about TV Box competition, we just did it, we didn't mention Chromecast

01:22:21   at all.

01:22:22   Now the reason I don't is because it's not a TV Box.

01:22:25   It is not a box that has an interface.

01:22:29   It's like AirPlay.

01:22:30   It's just a way to stream stuff.

01:22:32   I think that's why I leave it out.

01:22:34   It doesn't feel like the same product to me as an Apple TV or Roku or Fire TV.

01:22:40   don't build apps for it. It's like does it do just the support for Chromecast already

01:22:45   exists in other places? If it does you can Chromecast to it, right? You can do the casting

01:22:50   thing and you can watch it on the TV. That's why I leave it out because it doesn't have

01:22:54   that same feeling of like is Google going to do deals for Chromecast? Like it doesn't

01:22:58   feel that way, you know? What do you think?

01:23:01   >> Yeah, you said it. I think that's the, okay, I'm going to be a little impolitic here,

01:23:10   but I feel like this is one of those examples where Google is run by people who don't understand

01:23:17   how people think. And I know there are a lot of tech nerds out there who love Chromecast.

01:23:23   Of course there are. It's a dongle that you attach to your TV and then control everything

01:23:28   from your phone. That's a tech nerdy kind of thing. I think most people, like there's

01:23:35   no there there. There's no home there. It really is. I, I'm a tech nerd. I do not want

01:23:41   to sit down in front of my television and then pop around on my phone looking for an

01:23:47   app to stick on the television and then find the button. I don't do that. I, this is why

01:23:53   I don't like to airplay. Airplay is a last resort. I will airplay if I have to. If there's

01:23:57   an app that lets me airplay that isn't available on the Apple TV, I will do it. But I hate

01:24:02   it. I hate it because now I've got a device that is streaming over my network. Is it going

01:24:06   to be reliable? How's that going to work? I know that Chromecast will pick up the URL

01:24:10   and will go out and find it itself so it's not like that but it's like suddenly my phone

01:24:15   is a remote. And if it works for you that's great but it's not the same as these other

01:24:21   products and that's why. That's right or wrong. That's why.

01:24:25   it doesn't feel like they're doing deals. They just like open this up as a way to

01:24:29   say to developers "oh you can integrate with this?" So it's like a different

01:24:33   strategy and I think that's why we don't bring it up because the Apple TV and the

01:24:37   Fire TV, they are backed by companies that are trying to make original content.

01:24:42   Right? Like that's what makes that interesting is that it's more than just

01:24:47   the thing you plug into the television and I think that's why Google kind of

01:24:51   gets left out of this in places. Yeah, their thing is, um, turn your,

01:24:55   your device is the best remote, they say. And I don't agree.

01:25:00   Promotes are really nice. And in general, and there's, there's no,

01:25:05   they're there. I just, I believe that

01:25:07   I mean, Google Chrome cast, as far as I know, and forgive me,

01:25:13   I'm sure there are exceptions here, but to me,

01:25:15   Chromecast is a wireless video

01:25:19   adapter. Like it's a plug. It's not a place for stuff like the Fire TV and Roku and the

01:25:29   Apple TV. It's, and it, if it works for you, again, I'm not saying you're a bad person

01:25:35   if you like Chromecast. Chromecast has a lot of things going for it, but it's not, one

01:25:39   of these things is not like the other and, and, and that's why, and I, it, it, to me,

01:25:46   It's like one of those things that I point out and I say Google like you're so weird.

01:25:52   Like why is this your strategy that everything is an app, everything is an Android app on

01:25:59   your phone and the Chromecast, well we don't need an interface on it.

01:26:03   We don't need a remote.

01:26:04   Your device is the best remote.

01:26:05   I'm like yeah, I don't agree with that.

01:26:07   Just like I don't agree when Vizio put out those TVs that didn't have remotes because

01:26:13   you're supposed to use your phone.

01:26:14   It's like no, uh-uh, no.

01:26:16   - And lastly today, Simon asked,

01:26:19   "At $199, is the Sonos One the HomePod Killer?"

01:26:23   So the Sonos One was announced a couple weeks ago.

01:26:26   It is the Sonos Play One, which is their little speaker,

01:26:29   but it has Amazon Echo support.

01:26:33   It's going to get Google Home support,

01:26:35   and AirPlay Two, it's $199.

01:26:39   So that's $200 cheaper than the HomePod.

01:26:43   I don't like the phrase "the killer" because it never worked.

01:26:47   Anything that's called the something killer never killed anything?

01:26:49   Yes.

01:26:50   But is the Sonos One serious competition for the HomePod?

01:26:55   Ah, yes, but...

01:27:00   Are people gonna buy it?

01:27:01   My guess, because I've got to play one, which is basically the same,

01:27:04   other than the voice support.

01:27:07   And it sounds good.

01:27:09   The HomePod sounds better.

01:27:13   HomePod sounds better than the Play 3 let alone the Play 1.

01:27:16   The HomePod has Siri integration which is problematic in many ways, but it also is going to let you

01:27:23   voice control Apple music.

01:27:25   So if you're an Apple music subscriber,

01:27:28   you can't do that on the Play 1, whatever it's called, the Sonos One, right? Because the

01:27:33   Amazon Echo stuff, I almost said her name, the Amazon Echo stuff

01:27:37   will let you voice control Amazon's music stuff.

01:27:41   Yeah, and maybe I think Spotify down the road but not we were talking about some connect

01:27:46   It's so confusing is there is a potential that the airplay to integration will let you control Apple music

01:27:52   Via Siri it's but then but then it's from via Siri from your your phone not on the device and it's streaming to the device

01:28:00   yeah, so

01:28:02   so I think I think

01:28:04   My answer here is no because I think the home pod exists in this weird space where?

01:28:09   People are gonna buy it because they love Apple and they've got and they are using Apple music and that they think it's gonna be

01:28:15   A good product and the Sonos one is weirdly complicated by what assistants are on it

01:28:21   It does sound good

01:28:22   I think I guess what I'd say is the real challenge for the home pod is that it has it is expensive and

01:28:28   There are speakers that are cheaper that have similar features

01:28:32   That sound pretty good. Yeah, I mean I I

01:28:36   I still, I think the jury is out on whether the HomePod is even going to be worth it for anybody.

01:28:42   Oh, I agree. I agree. It's a weird product.

01:28:44   It has a real risk to be the iPod Hi-Fi 2, in my opinion. It's a very expensive,

01:28:50   very limited use case device. I think there's a real scenario where next fall there's an all-new

01:28:56   HomePod. Which is $199. That's smaller and cheaper and not, yeah, not what this current HomePod is.

01:29:05   we'll see but I think I think that's the challenge I don't think it's so does

01:29:08   one's entrance is love the jig is up for the home pod because I think it's it's

01:29:13   just another entrant in this in this field that talk that exposes the issues

01:29:19   with the home pod if you like to find a show this week or it really that a fan

01:29:24   such upgrade such 163 thank you to everybody that some questions as always

01:29:28   you can submit snow talk questions with a hashtag snow talk for the beginning of

01:29:31   the show and #AskUpgradeQuestions for the end of the show. If you want to find Jason online,

01:29:37   he's at SixColors.com, TheIncomparable.com, he hosts a bunch of shows over at relay.fm

01:29:42   as well and he's @JSnell on Twitter, I am @imike. We'll be back next week as normal,

01:29:48   we're at the Release Notes Conference, if you are at Release Notes, we're going to be

01:29:51   there for the next few days, so please come say hi, we'd love to speak to you and, I don't

01:29:56   know, talk about pineapple or something. Sure, probably. But we'll be back next time, until

01:30:01   Until then, all thanks to our sponsors this week,

01:30:04   the great folk over at Balance, Squarespace, and Macworld.

01:30:07   We'll be back next week.

01:30:08   Until then, say goodbye, Jason Snow.

01:30:10   Goodbye, everybody.

01:30:11   High five!

01:30:12   Woo!

01:30:13   [BLANK_AUDIO]