162: The Spider Is a Metaphor


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:08   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 162.

00:00:12   Today's show is brought to you by Encapsula, Flight Logger, and Freshbooks.

00:00:16   My name is Myke Hurley, I'm joined by Jason Snell.

00:00:18   Hi, Jason Snell.

00:00:20   Hi, Myke Hurley, how are you?

00:00:21   I'm very well, how are you?

00:00:23   Well, I am completely out of sorts because my iMac is not in front of me right now.

00:00:30   And I do think people want to hear about that.

00:00:33   Nobody cares about that right now.

00:00:34   Right now.

00:00:35   Later we can care about it.

00:00:36   But right now, nobody cares about what computer you're using because it is time for everybody's

00:00:41   favorite segment of the show, #SnellTalk.

00:00:44   And today's #SnellTalk question has been sent in by Reid, and Reid wants to know, "Jason,

00:00:50   how did you celebrate your birthday?

00:00:52   Happy birthday, Jason."

00:00:53   - Oh, thank you. You know, it is a, it was just a work day. So I didn't work as much

00:01:01   as I would normally. I watched some baseball because my birthday tends to coincide with

00:01:07   baseball playoffs and there are always interesting baseball games on television. So I watched

00:01:13   some of those and had lunch with my wife because she had kind of a weird schedule on that day

00:01:21   too and then we all went out to dinner with her parents actually were in town so we all

00:01:25   went out to dinner to a nice restaurant and she bought a cake that was very nice and that's

00:01:31   the kind of cake that I like from the place that I found a cake that I like because I

00:01:36   don't like a lot of cakes.

00:01:38   Did the wait staff sing happy birthday to you?

00:01:41   No in fact there was a very dicey moment when the guy came with the bill and my mother-in-law

00:01:47   mentioned that it was my birthday and the guy looked at me like it's your birthday do

00:01:50   Do you want a dessert?" and I said, "Well, first off, we already told you we don't want

00:01:54   a dessert because we have a dessert at home, we have the cake. And second, I don't, let's

00:01:58   just..." I shut him down.

00:02:00   They really wanted to put a candle in that dessert for you, Jim.

00:02:02   It was not that kind of restaurant, but like seriously, no. I, um, no. Don't, don't, and

00:02:07   that is a pro tip, by the way. When there are servers around, when your waiter is around

00:02:14   at a restaurant, don't mention that it's somebody's birthday because they will listen and then

00:02:20   It gets weird.

00:02:21   Unless that's what you want to happen.

00:02:23   Unless that's what you want, but I said pro tip, not amateur tip of somebody who's excited

00:02:28   to make the waitstaff at a restaurant sing non-proprietary birthday songs to them. But

00:02:34   you're a pro, you just let it go.

00:02:36   So we're going to be together next week, which we'll talk about in a moment, and I'll do

00:02:40   my level best not to mention to any waitstaff that it's your birthday during that period

00:02:44   of time.

00:02:45   Well, it'll be too late.

00:02:46   But they won't know that, Jason.

00:02:47   You will invest your chance.

00:02:48   They won't know if I say it. They will. They're probably people who go get the birthday thing

00:02:54   every time they go out to dinner because nobody is checking their ID.

00:02:58   Yeah, free cake. So we are going to be together next week, so if you want to send in, you

00:03:02   can bear that in mind of your Snail Talk questions. #SnailTalk if you want to ask a question to

00:03:07   start the show and you have a rare opportunity to ask something that I don't know what we

00:03:11   would do or what difference it would be because we're going to be looking into each other's

00:03:14   of the Zeis when we record the show, but it could open up some opportunities for some

00:03:19   new and exciting Snail Talk questions. We're going to be at the Release Notes conference

00:03:23   next week. So if you're going to be there, it's going to be in Chicago. If you're going

00:03:27   to be there, come say hi. We're doing a couple of event things, but they're like ticketed

00:03:32   events, so that's going to be a, they're already gone. So we're doing a live episode of Connected

00:03:37   and the tickets are already gone for that. But there is going to be one public meetup

00:03:41   that we're going to be a part of which I'm doing as part of the Pan-Addict podcast.

00:03:46   We're going to be having an open house at Field Notes, the notebook company.

00:03:50   We're going to open the house with them.

00:03:53   They have like a Facebook event thing.

00:03:55   I'm going to put that in the show notes because if people do want to come by, this will be

00:03:57   a really cool event to go to.

00:03:59   Then you can come to a high…

00:04:00   That's Friday, right?

00:04:01   That's on Friday.

00:04:02   It's on Friday, October 13th.

00:04:03   Yes, I will not be there.

00:04:05   No.

00:04:06   So don't look for me.

00:04:07   Well, you could look for Jason, but you won't find Jason.

00:04:09   Yeah.

00:04:10   tip, don't look for me, because if you were an amateur tip, then you will look for me

00:04:14   and not find me, and pros don't like to fail.

00:04:16   We're all about pro tips today. Lots of pro tips on this show.

00:04:19   This is the pro tip edition. Pro tip. So yeah, we're going to be at Release Notes,

00:04:23   if you're going to be there, please come and say hi. If you're not, we'll be doing stuff,

00:04:27   if we're going to do any kind of a public event, we'll tweet about it or something,

00:04:30   but we don't have anything on the cards right now for that. But if you're in Chicago, I

00:04:35   hope that we're going to see you next week.

00:04:37   I don't think on the cards is the way that works,

00:04:40   but that's fine.

00:04:42   Maybe there literally are cards that you've got.

00:04:44   It's in the cards.

00:04:45   It's not in the cards.

00:04:46   - You don't know how I set up my calendar.

00:04:50   It could just be very card based.

00:04:51   - You could have an entirely card based planning system.

00:04:54   Maybe that's what they say in England.

00:04:56   It's not on the cards.

00:04:57   - Yeah, it's a card based calendar system right there.

00:05:04   There's been a follow up for watchOS, watchOS 4.0.1 has been out in the last week or so

00:05:10   and it specifically called out fixing the captive Wi-Fi bug that we've been talking

00:05:15   about over the last couple of weeks that a bunch of people are seeing where the Apple

00:05:19   Watch was trying to connect to open Wi-Fi networks that didn't have passwords for.

00:05:24   Apparently Apple has done something to fix this and that's watchOS 4.0.1.

00:05:28   I've never seen this problem myself personally so I can't attest to whether it's been improved

00:05:32   but this is a bug fix that we were waiting for.

00:05:36   Yep, yep, this is the, yeah, you walk by some place that has an open Wi-Fi

00:05:43   but you have to go on the in the browser to log in and it gets confused and it's bad. So this is

00:05:50   good that they put this out there because it's being aggressive at trying to attach to Wi-Fi,

00:05:55   but a little too aggressive.

00:05:58   Upgrading and Rob has sent in an app to us called Half,

00:06:03   that is called the Half App, you can go halfapp.co for this.

00:06:06   It is an application for iOS and Mac OS

00:06:10   to convert your images and videos to HEIF and HEVC.

00:06:15   So we've been talking about, people have been asking us,

00:06:18   we've got a bunch of questions,

00:06:19   ask upgrade questions about this,

00:06:20   like how can I do this?

00:06:21   What's the best way to do this?

00:06:22   This is an application that claims to do this, right?

00:06:25   it claims to be able to take your photos and turn them into the smaller file sizes, the

00:06:30   new compression systems that Apple have. Use of caution, I guess. I haven't tried this.

00:06:36   I'm a little bit wary, personally, of sending my files through this conversion system, but

00:06:42   this is an app that says it does it.

00:06:43   >> Yeah, and it doesn't do batch yet, although they say that that's coming. And something

00:06:48   -- so I said last time, and I'll say it again, that I don't like the idea. I think you should

00:06:54   just keep your old photos the way they are rather than converting them because

00:06:58   when you convert a lossy compressed file to a new lossy format there is some data

00:07:05   loss that happens there. Now of course it's already compressed so there's a

00:07:10   limit to you know it's already lost a lot of data. One thing that I like about

00:07:15   what the half FAQ says is they're using the highest quality setting when they do

00:07:21   this. So they're not. They're trying to not throw away more data on. You still

00:07:25   get a size savings. So if you don't care about this, that's fine. It's just like

00:07:30   my I looked at this and thought, You know what? I just I'll leave my old

00:07:33   J pegs alone. So you'd really need to be in a space crunch. And if you are,

00:07:38   then then so be it. But I feel like the you prefer probably rather just keep

00:07:43   your originals around and you know, cloud storage is getting cheaper and

00:07:47   on device storage is getting cheaper. The long arc of history. It's getting

00:07:51   cheaper, maybe not right at the moment, but in the end, do you want to go through the

00:07:57   trouble and then you've got two sets, so then do you delete your old ones or do they keep

00:08:01   kicking around in a backup? I think it's kind of a mess, but if you really want to do it,

00:08:05   yes, this is an app that will do it and they're going to bring batch processing in and they

00:08:08   seem to be doing the right thing and trying to minimize the data loss that will happen

00:08:13   when you do double lossy compression.

00:08:16   Yeah, I am, it's good that this exists, but I'm definitely in the snow camp of just, I'll

00:08:23   let it go in the future. I mean, I haven't even converted on my iPhone yet. I'm keeping

00:08:29   it as JPEG because I haven't upgraded my Mac to High Sierra. Like I'm just waiting to be

00:08:33   in a position where I've got everything running and I have no intention of upgrading to High

00:08:37   Sierra right now. So I'm going to keep everything in JPEG for the time being. I mean, I have

00:08:41   more than enough space on my devices but in the future I will move to these systems once

00:08:47   all of my devices I'm comfortable to have them all support it because I'm really sure

00:08:51   I really like you know I just can't see myself going back to my archive and trying to convert

00:08:56   it but exactly yeah 100% so it's like I'm just kind of like I know it's there it's going

00:09:00   to be great when it's there I'm not using it at all right now but one day I will you

00:09:04   know that's kind of I feel a lot that way about a lot of the things that are in High

00:09:08   High Sierra like APFS.

00:09:11   Right, like I'm using it on my iPhone, on my iPad

00:09:13   and it's fine, but I'm really kind of hesitant

00:09:16   to put it on my Mac right now.

00:09:18   I'm just a little bit like, I'm just gonna give it some time

00:09:22   because I don't need High Sierra for anything

00:09:25   and considering some of the stuff that High Sierra is doing,

00:09:28   it feels to me personally like a higher risk upgrade

00:09:30   than normal, so I'm kinda just gonna wait for a little bit.

00:09:35   - Yeah, I can see that.

00:09:37   So yeah, we spent a bunch of time talking about Twitterrific for Mac when they were

00:09:43   running their Kickstarter campaign.

00:09:45   And the Kickstarter campaign was funded and they've had Project Phoenix in beta and now

00:09:51   it is going to be available to everybody on Tuesday the 10th, so tomorrow as we record

00:09:57   this, Twitterrific for Mac will be available in the Mac OS app store.

00:10:00   But Kickstarter backers like me and you, we got our copies of the full final version of

00:10:06   terrific mac a few days ago and I wanted to know Jason as a person who loves

00:10:11   terrific used to terrific on all the devices what are you thinking about this

00:10:17   application using it like how do you feel about it I am using it I've been

00:10:22   using it more the last couple of weeks it's it's been in beta for a while but

00:10:26   it's one of those things where it's not it was under construction it was

00:10:31   definitely a beta and so I would use it for a little while but I hadn't gotten

00:10:33   and gone full in.

00:10:34   And there's still some things that it doesn't do

00:10:36   that I miss from the Twitter for Mac app,

00:10:39   because it has access to features

00:10:41   that Twitterrific doesn't have access to,

00:10:43   because it has to use the API.

00:10:45   And Twitter for Mac can use secret Twitter stuff.

00:10:49   But I like a lot of things about it.

00:10:51   It's customizable.

00:10:52   You actually can hold down the option key

00:10:54   when you open the preferences

00:10:55   and you can even build your own custom theme.

00:10:57   It looks good, syncs with the iOS stuff

00:11:03   and looks very much like the iOS app in a lot of ways.

00:11:06   There are things about it that are a little weird

00:11:08   that are gonna either take some getting used to

00:11:09   or some refinement on the icon factories part.

00:11:12   I'm not sure how well some of the interface translates

00:11:18   from iOS in terms of things that like in iOS,

00:11:21   you can get to threads and replies by swiping

00:11:24   and on the Mac, they don't do that, which is fine,

00:11:27   but I end up trying to click on things

00:11:32   and I end up in this weird position where I'm like,

00:11:35   how do I get the thread to show up using my mouse

00:11:40   instead of like my keyboard, I can do it with an arrow key,

00:11:43   but how do I get that with my mouse?

00:11:45   And you know, and you can't swipe it.

00:11:47   I just tried, I didn't even realize it would be nice

00:11:49   if you could just swipe on the track pad over the items

00:11:51   and that would be just like on iOS,

00:11:54   but failing that some sort of a reliable

00:11:57   kind of mouse gesture and it's not quite reliable.

00:12:01   it feels like double clicking, it seems to do a lot of stuff,

00:12:04   but there's something about double clicking,

00:12:07   which feels weird to me.

00:12:08   - Where you double click too, I have a lot of,

00:12:10   sometimes there's a thread button that you can click on,

00:12:12   but sometimes it's sort of like I have to double click

00:12:14   in the margin because if I double click in the tweet,

00:12:17   it doesn't do anything, but if I go out on the margin,

00:12:20   it does, or it doesn't do it as reliably.

00:12:22   And you know, it's a, for all of it's, you know,

00:12:26   it's version 5.0, it really is in many ways version 1.0

00:12:30   of bringing it back, but it's got a lot of stuff

00:12:33   I really like and it's, yeah, it's a good start.

00:12:38   And there are a lot of things I like about it.

00:12:41   So I'm trying to use it, trying to use it more

00:12:44   and we'll see how it goes.

00:12:46   But there, yeah, I'm encouraged.

00:12:50   It also has, it's one of these things that it's funny,

00:12:53   Twitterrific on iOS has a mute and muffle feature

00:12:56   where you can like, just like on Tweetbot,

00:12:58   that you can hide stuff that you don't wanna see.

00:13:00   And that interface doesn't currently exist

00:13:02   on the Mac version, but the feature is there.

00:13:04   So if all the stuff that I have muted and muffled,

00:13:07   just like users of Tweetbot on Mac and iOS

00:13:09   will know this as a feature,

00:13:11   I have lost that when I switched away.

00:13:15   Well, Twitterrific for Mac was so old

00:13:16   and kind of out of sync that it didn't do it.

00:13:18   But now it syncs together.

00:13:20   So all of my mutes and muffles on iOS just work on the Mac,

00:13:25   even though there's no UI for it yet.

00:13:28   - Yeah, like I was playing around of it

00:13:29   and couldn't find a way to do that.

00:13:31   Or like, I was like, oh, where is that feature?

00:13:32   But it's like, it's not here yet.

00:13:34   - Yeah, the UI is not on the Mac side yet.

00:13:36   It's only on the iOS side.

00:13:37   So I'm sure they'll add it.

00:13:39   And there's other stuff that I would like them to add.

00:13:41   There's some, a lot of interface niceties

00:13:46   that they had their list from their Kickstarter

00:13:50   of the features that they needed to do.

00:13:52   And so some of the stuff isn't there that I would like.

00:13:55   Like I have individual lists called out on a sidebar in iOS.

00:14:00   I would love to be able to do something like that,

00:14:02   where I could take one of my lists

00:14:04   and put it in the toolbar of my window

00:14:07   so that I could just flip to a particular list

00:14:09   instead of having to click the list button

00:14:11   and then click the sports button or whatever.

00:14:15   But yeah, it's getting there.

00:14:17   And I guess I should bring up now

00:14:19   the thing that I always bring up

00:14:20   when I am talking about a Twitter client

00:14:24   that is not Tweetbot, which is to say to everybody out there who uses Tweetbot, I have Tweetbot.

00:14:33   I have used Tweetbot on all the platforms. You don't need to remind me that Tweetbot

00:14:38   exists. I am aware of it. Doesn't work for me. Glad it works for you, but I am aware

00:14:44   it exists. You don't need to point out that Tweetbot exists because I have found that

00:14:49   if you discuss any other Twitter client, people who use Tweetbot emerge from the shadows,

00:14:55   from a bush, and they say, "What about Tweetbot? Have you used Tweetbot? Have you heard the

00:14:59   good news about Tweetbot?" And the answer is, "Yep, I heard it. I got it. It's fine.

00:15:03   It's not for me, and that's fine." As a person who uses Chrome on iOS, I understand. I think

00:15:09   that mine's a little bit more extreme, but people are just like, "Why don't you just

00:15:13   use--" I just don't. I just don't. It's not what I want to do. I just don't. Myke, did

00:15:17   Did you know that Safari is a browser that Apple provides?

00:15:20   That's the good news about Safari.

00:15:21   So I'll say, like, I've only really, like, tinkered around with, uh, with Tweetbot on

00:15:26   the Mac a little bit, and I am struck at how much it feels like an iOS app.

00:15:31   Like, it's a very strange feeling.

00:15:34   It is a nice-looking application.

00:15:35   I'm pleased that it exists.

00:15:37   Do you mean Twitterific?

00:15:38   I mean, but I think what you just said is true for Tweetbot is true for Tweetbot on

00:15:42   the Mac, too, actually.

00:15:43   I meant Twitterific, but it's 100% true for Tweetbot, although I will, for me personally,

00:15:47   I feel like the Mac version of Tweetbot feels more like a Mac app than the Mac version of

00:15:52   Twitterrific does.

00:15:53   Oh yeah, well, and that's what I was saying about interface niceties. I think that's part

00:15:57   of it, is that in doing a conversion from iOS to Mac, Twitterrific is still, you know,

00:16:04   there are still a lot of things where, you know, if they were building it for the Mac

00:16:07   or if they had more time to work on it, they would have made it more Mac-y, and there's

00:16:13   some stuff where they obviously just chose to be like, "Well look, this is, we gotta

00:16:16   to ship this first version, so let's just do it." Whereas Tweetbot has had way more

00:16:20   time to be a considered refined Mac app, although there are still things in Tweetbot on the

00:16:25   Mac that I think, "This is a little weird, right?" Because I feel like it's sort of riding

00:16:29   on iOS conventions a little bit.

00:16:31   Yeah, and like, even Tweetbot for the Mac doesn't have all of the same features that

00:16:34   iOS does. Like, the iOS apps are more advanced, right? Like, they have their whole activity

00:16:38   tab stuff, which doesn't exist in the same way on the Mac and things like that.

00:16:41   Yeah, it's a bigger market. Yeah, and the Today feature, which is the equivalent in

00:16:46   Twitterific is not on the Mac at this point.

00:16:48   Maybe someday.

00:16:49   - I hope that the response is good.

00:16:50   I'm interested to see what the response will be like

00:16:52   because calling this version five feels weird

00:16:55   because you say it really feels like version one.

00:16:57   - But it would need to be like what,

00:16:58   Twitterific two version one?

00:17:00   - Exactly.

00:17:01   - Something that's strange.

00:17:01   - This is the only way to do it.

00:17:03   And I reckon probably that if you are a Twitterific user,

00:17:07   you're just gonna be super happy with this

00:17:08   because it exists.

00:17:09   But I can't see them pulling people in

00:17:13   from other Twitter apps right now with this version.

00:17:16   You know, I can't, personally, I don't imagine like Tweetbot users or the official app users

00:17:21   being like, "Great, I'll switch over to Twitrific now."

00:17:25   Because the Mac app, this is a building, like this is a foundation to build upon.

00:17:29   So I hope that it's successful for them, I hope that they can build a business on it,

00:17:33   and most of all I'm pleased because you and John Siracusa finally get an app that you

00:17:37   can use.

00:17:38   - Yeah, it's true.

00:17:39   And John and I were both people who would like dig

00:17:42   into the apps frameworks to customize the look

00:17:47   and feel of the app.

00:17:51   And it's nice that although it's basically unsupported,

00:17:55   it's got that way that you can go in

00:17:57   and build your own theme.

00:17:58   'Cause I've totally done that.

00:17:59   - Wow.

00:18:00   - And well, you know, I don't like their dark theme.

00:18:03   The text is like gray on a,

00:18:07   it's light gray on dark gray background.

00:18:08   It's like, I hate that.

00:18:09   I hate the lack of contrast.

00:18:11   So I, you know, I could change it.

00:18:14   And that's fun too.

00:18:15   And I can change it in a UI instead of having to change it

00:18:18   in a text file like before.

00:18:21   So that's kind of fun too.

00:18:22   - Feels like a good post for six colors

00:18:24   to tell people how to do that 'cause I have no idea.

00:18:27   - Yeah, I suppose so.

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00:20:30   Great app, really really like it.

00:20:34   I would like to talk about your Spider Mac.

00:20:38   So last week before we recorded the show, if you listen live, and you can listen live

00:20:44   to the show every week, go to relay.fm/schedule and you can find out when this show and all

00:20:48   of our shows will be streaming so you can join in with the chatroom if you want, it's

00:20:52   a great time.

00:20:54   The live listeners last week found out that your iMac had a spider in it.

00:21:02   Yep.

00:21:04   This is true.

00:21:05   This was a horrifying realization for me, as I am not a fan of the eight-legged creatures.

00:21:14   Can you explain what happened?

00:21:17   How does a spider even get into a computer?

00:21:19   I can't explain what happened, Myke.

00:21:21   5K iMac, unlike previous iMacs, was sort of,

00:21:26   one of the things mentioned about its build

00:21:29   was that the screen is a single piece.

00:21:32   Like, it used to be you could pop an iMac's glass

00:21:35   off the front with suction cups,

00:21:39   'cause it was held on by powerful magnets,

00:21:40   and then you could access the computer that way.

00:21:42   And the iMac, the 4K iMac is, or 5K iMac, is a single piece.

00:21:49   like the glass and the screen are all attached.

00:21:51   And I think the implication there when we learned that

00:21:53   was that that meant also that it was probably

00:21:55   very tight fit, it's closer to the glass,

00:21:58   there's maybe very little air gap, if any air gap there.

00:22:01   Well, guess what?

00:22:04   - It's big enough.

00:22:05   - There is enough room in there and then somehow somewhere

00:22:09   access in there that a small spider could crawl in there.

00:22:13   And I heard from some, when I posted this on Twitter,

00:22:15   I heard from people who said that they also had a spider

00:22:18   or a fly or a couple people said ants had crawled into the space, the very small space

00:22:26   between the glass and the screen from, you know, obviously had come in a vent and then

00:22:34   crawled around inside my computer and emerged somehow in the screen at which point it died

00:22:42   and sat in the screen.

00:22:46   What I find interesting is that the spider died but it stayed in the same place. It must

00:22:50   have been a real tight fit. Well yeah, I think that's it. It was a very tight fit. Well,

00:22:54   it may have died and then fallen into a position where it stuck. That's possible. This makes

00:23:00   me so uncomfortable to talk about. I didn't check with the medical examiner, the spider

00:23:04   medical examiner about this. Spider Coroner. But whatever it was, it was sort of like,

00:23:08   and you know, it was kind of like, I mean, I'm not going to shake my iMac like a tambourine

00:23:14   or something, but it didn't seem to be movable. It was wedged in that spot.

00:23:22   And as I asked at the time, attempting to poke it with the mouse pointer didn't do anything

00:23:25   either. Just to check.

00:23:26   Not a thing.

00:23:27   Just to check.

00:23:28   Not a thing. I moved my windows underneath it and no effect.

00:23:34   Can I shuffle it down?

00:23:36   It is an X-spider, yeah.

00:23:39   So I mean, I just assumed that the screen was laminated, right? Like that was just,

00:23:43   I mean, I assumed they obviously never said that, but like my mind was like, oh, this

00:23:47   is laminated like the iPhones, right? That's just kind of what my brain had told me these

00:23:52   computers were like, you know, like that there was no gap anymore.

00:23:56   Sure. I, yeah, yeah. That's, uh, I, you're right. They never really said it, but you,

00:24:01   your brain starts to think, oh, well, all of Apple screens now are just the glass and

00:24:05   and the screen are all connected

00:24:06   and that's how it works now.

00:24:08   And nope, let me tell you,

00:24:11   that was my moment when I saw it,

00:24:15   I was like, what is that?

00:24:16   And it's like, can I wipe that?

00:24:17   And it's like, there's nothing there.

00:24:19   That's a spider.

00:24:21   It's under the glass, but over the screen.

00:24:24   How is that possible?

00:24:25   - The spider is coming from inside the glass.

00:24:27   - It's from inside the glass.

00:24:29   - Horrible.

00:24:30   - Yep, it would've been worse if I knocked on the screen

00:24:32   and it knocked back.

00:24:34   That would have been worse.

00:24:35   It would have been significantly worse if you saw it moving around.

00:24:38   I feel like that would have been like just like a horror show.

00:24:42   Anyway.

00:24:43   Well, yeah, but at least then there would have been the hope that I would come back the next day

00:24:46   and it would be gone.

00:24:47   It will have left its screen domain.

00:24:50   I guess so.

00:24:50   And then I could just continue on with my life as normal.

00:24:53   And they said that Max don't get bugs.

00:24:56   Um, you, you...

00:24:59   Spider's not a bug.

00:24:59   Ah, come on.

00:25:01   Give me that one.

00:25:02   Give me that one.

00:25:03   You wrote a post on Six Colors about this because you have to, right?

00:25:06   You got to show the pictures to the world.

00:25:07   But there was a thing in there that really stood out to me that this Mac was one of

00:25:11   the first products that you reviewed on Six Colors.

00:25:13   And I have one of these feelings of that feels like so long ago and not long enough.

00:25:19   You know, like it was this weird like timeline freeze for me, right?

00:25:22   It was like, oh wow.

00:25:23   It feels, because one, it just feels like Jason Snell, he does Six Colors.

00:25:27   That's just how you cemented in that.

00:25:29   Since the beginning of time.

00:25:30   You know, but like the Macworld stuff has mostly disappeared

00:25:33   in my like association of you.

00:25:35   So it's just funny. - That's three years.

00:25:38   - Three years, oh my word.

00:25:39   I guess it's as long as old as the show, right?

00:25:41   Like we started it at the same time.

00:25:43   But it feels like ages ago and not long enough.

00:25:46   So what are you gonna do? - That's two weeks.

00:25:48   - What are you gonna do about this thing?

00:25:51   What's gonna happen?

00:25:52   Are you gonna live with it?

00:25:53   Have you given the spider a name?

00:25:54   - I, no, I've not given the spider a name.

00:25:58   So I could live with it.

00:25:59   Dan Morin pointed out that he had an iMac that he used

00:26:02   that had like a blue line on it for a couple of years

00:26:06   and he just used it.

00:26:07   And the truth is--

00:26:08   - Dan Morin is a monster though.

00:26:10   - Yeah, well, so yeah, I could live with it.

00:26:12   But it's really distracting.

00:26:17   It was driving me up a wall.

00:26:18   - 'Cause it was basically dead in the center as well, right?

00:26:21   Which is like the worst place.

00:26:22   - No, it was sort of in the,

00:26:24   it was not in the center, but it was in my working area.

00:26:28   I mean, that's a big screen,

00:26:29   but it was in my working area.

00:26:30   And it's one of those things where, yeah,

00:26:31   I could have avoided, I thought about things like,

00:26:33   should I just put a sticker on there?

00:26:34   Should I, can I find an app that will just float,

00:26:37   or like block off that part of the screen

00:26:40   and just like pretend that screen isn't there

00:26:42   and just it's gonna emulate a much smaller screen.

00:26:45   - Draw a little white line around the spider.

00:26:48   - Like I've got two different virtual monitors

00:26:50   on that screen, but the spider part is blacked out.

00:26:53   Like I thought about all sorts of things like that.

00:26:56   So yeah, I could deal with it.

00:26:57   The thing is, so my thought process first,

00:27:00   all right, let's walk through the thought process.

00:27:02   'Cause of course I could live with it.

00:27:03   I could live with it.

00:27:04   It would be, it would,

00:27:07   it would very, it would frustrate me

00:27:09   and distract me on a regular basis.

00:27:12   But I could live with it.

00:27:14   I'm not gonna say I could get used to it.

00:27:15   - But you're a grownup, right?

00:27:16   Like you can deal with it.

00:27:17   You're a grownup, right?

00:27:18   - Yeah, but again, I might deal with it

00:27:20   by putting a piece of tape on the screen or something like,

00:27:23   but I could do that.

00:27:26   So then I started to think,

00:27:27   you know, your initial reaction is, you know, burn everything down.

00:27:31   Time to get a new iMac. There's a spider in this one. Like, those are the initial reactions.

00:27:39   And then I thought, well, this is a great computer. So if I, if even if I were to just like,

00:27:47   say, forget it, this, this is, this is giving me a new one. I would want to put this one to use.

00:27:53   and now I'm put in the position where I'm either handing down to one of my children

00:27:57   or selling on the internet or on eBay or whatever a computer with a spider in the screen. So

00:28:04   then it's like, "Here, enjoy this great iMac, why don't you want it?" Well, there's a dead

00:28:08   spider behind the glass. "Oh, thanks for the spider Mac that you've just given me." So

00:28:15   I thought, "Okay, I could live with it for a while, but ultimately I'm gonna want to

00:28:21   get the screen. I'm going to either want to get the screen replaced or I'm going to want

00:28:25   to get somebody to attempt to remove the spider from the screen. Whatever, however that works.

00:28:31   The screen is like a $400 part I think. And getting in there is complicated because there's

00:28:39   like it's all attached with tape now so you have to kind of like knife around the edges

00:28:45   to get in and then you have to replace the tape and all of that stuff.

00:28:49   this has become something that you can't really do anymore, right?

00:28:52   - Yeah, it's not meant to be, I mean, iFixit does it, and it can be done, but it's not

00:28:57   one of those things that is...

00:29:01   IMAX screens are not a thing that you generally want to try to mess with yourself, also because

00:29:05   like even in the old ones that were easier to pop off, the challenge is how do you...

00:29:09   Okay, the spider's bothering you, but if you don't do it right, or if you're in the wrong

00:29:13   environment when you put it together, you're gonna end up with like a dog hair and a fingerprint

00:29:17   and some dust.

00:29:18   You can have more spiders in there than you had before.

00:29:20   - Or more spiders.

00:29:21   Just dump in a tray of ants and then slap the glass back on

00:29:26   and see, and you got an ant farm.

00:29:28   - Well, you gotta send in something bigger

00:29:30   to get the spider out.

00:29:31   That's how that works.

00:29:32   - Oh, that is, that is, that's good.

00:29:35   They should make a song about that.

00:29:36   Anyway, so I decided I would do that

00:29:38   and that I would replace the screen.

00:29:41   So what's ended up happening is I'm gonna get the,

00:29:44   I'm gonna get either the spider remove evicted

00:29:48   from the screen or replace the screen.

00:29:50   And my iMac is gone.

00:29:51   I've already taken it to the nice service people

00:29:54   who are going to attempt a screen replacement on it.

00:29:57   And what I also decided as a part of this whole conversation

00:30:01   about the future of my iMac and whether I should just like

00:30:04   set it on fire 'cause there's spiders,

00:30:06   I have, I think come around to the idea

00:30:11   that I'm gonna buy an iMac Pro.

00:30:12   - Interesting.

00:30:13   - So I'll fix this one and then I can sell it

00:30:16   or pass it down when the iMac Pro comes out.

00:30:20   - There could be some conspiracy theories

00:30:22   brought about here, you know?

00:30:24   Was the spider a plant so you'd buy it,

00:30:26   you have a reason to buy it. - Was Jason Stelzien

00:30:28   with a box of spiders in his garage?

00:30:32   - Shiftily going into his garage.

00:30:34   - For those who haven't been in my garage,

00:30:35   I do not need to supply spiders.

00:30:38   I live, I work in a garage.

00:30:41   We have spiders.

00:30:44   We have spiders in our house sometimes, we have them in our garage, there are a lot of

00:30:49   them outside in the trees, there are spider webs on our car mirrors when we go out in

00:30:54   the morning, there are spiders around.

00:30:55   I don't need to supply spiders.

00:30:58   This is a natural process that brings spiders into my life.

00:31:02   So how did you get to this then?

00:31:06   Why do you think that you want or need an iMac Pro?

00:31:11   Well the short version would be it's Marco Arment's fault, because it's always Marco's

00:31:15   fault because if you mention products around Marco, he will convince you to buy an expensive

00:31:21   product.

00:31:22   I once visited Marco and I think within 25 minutes had bought all new audio equipment,

00:31:28   like new headphones, a new headphone amp and a new microphone.

00:31:32   He has this horrible ability to make you see sense, but sense that is expensive.

00:31:40   viewing it once you get, it's like the reality distortion field with Steve Jobs, it's a little

00:31:45   like that. It's this sort of like once you start to view Marco's perspective, which is

00:31:50   very much a, and it's not unreasonable, right? That's the thing that's dangerous about it.

00:31:55   It's like, well, yeah, but if you look at it this way, you should buy the good thing

00:31:58   because the good thing is good and you will use it. I mean, it comes across sometimes

00:32:04   as him talking you into buying things and spending lots of money, but his perspective

00:32:07   is usually a reasonable one, which is to get something good, you have to pay for it. So

00:32:12   don't cheap out. Get the good thing because you're going to use it. This is not a thing

00:32:16   that you're not going to use. You should get this. And I think that when he's talking to

00:32:22   people he knows about this stuff, as opposed to maybe some of the stuff that he tries out

00:32:26   himself, there's an extra burden when you're talking to somebody you know. And he knows

00:32:32   how you use that audio stuff and that you're going to appreciate it and therefore it has

00:32:37   value and that spending more money on it you're going to get the value out of it and so it's

00:32:42   worth it. So that's basically what happened with me and the iMac Pro. He said, and he's

00:32:46   completely right, he said, "You, me, Jason, use iZotope RX6, which is this audio software

00:32:57   that does noise removal and echo removal and all sorts of other wild things. I've written

00:33:01   about it a couple of times. I do a lot of podcasts with people who are not in ideal

00:33:08   recording environments, and so I get files that are full of background hums from heaters

00:33:12   and air conditioners and computer fans and sometimes in echoey rooms, and I process most

00:33:18   of it to make it sound better, and that, using iZotope, and that is a piece of software that

00:33:25   uses all the cores that you can throw at it, all the processor cores. And Marco is somebody

00:33:31   who really is focused on processor efficiency, like he spent all that time working on multi--and

00:33:39   he talked about it on ATP--working on multi-threading MP3 encoding because he got frustrated that

00:33:44   the MP3 encoders were only using like two cores or one core and he wanted them to efficiently

00:33:50   use all the cores all the time, right? But he's right, the tools that I use to do a lot

00:33:55   of this are multi-core savvy and so I will benefit greatly from having an iMac Pro with

00:34:06   that many many core processor that's very fast because instead of starting a denoise

00:34:11   job and then walking away for 10 minutes, even on my i7 iMac, it takes forever to do

00:34:18   that stuff. That it will happen a lot faster.

00:34:20   faster.

00:34:21   The generation after you, right? Mine is completely maxed out. And if I ever use iZotope, and

00:34:27   I use it every now and then, I don't use it nearly as frequently as you do, I'm always

00:34:32   surprised by how long it takes because everything else is so quick. It's like, "Okay, I'm

00:34:36   going to process this file. Okay, five minutes remaining. What?" Because everything else

00:34:40   I do with audio on my iMac, it happens in seconds.

00:34:43   Yeah. No, this is, and it's like, and if you've got like iStat menus on or activity

00:34:48   monitor open you can see it just it pins the processors at 100 percent the fans spin up and

00:34:55   for five minutes or whatever or longer it is just churning on this stuff it does an amazing job like

00:35:01   that's why it's doing it the way it's doing it but it is incredibly processor intensive so um that

00:35:07   that is uh also your iMac actually because it's the 2015 has the faster uh SSD faster storage

00:35:17   transfer, it's like 2x of mine, and that's another place where I would get a benefit

00:35:23   by getting a new iMac or iMac Pro is once I'm done processing these files, I have to

00:35:29   save them, and the save takes forever. And now keep in mind also these are huge files,

00:35:34   like when I do denoising for a session of Total Party Kill, the Dungeons and Dragons

00:35:40   podcast that we do. So that's got like seven people on it. So I have seven

00:35:46   uncompressed audio files that are probably four hours long each. Wow.

00:35:53   Oh my word. That takes a long time and those are huge files and then you have

00:35:59   to save them. So anyway, you know, Marko's point, he's right. Like I could, an iMac Pro,

00:36:04   even though it would be by far the most expensive computer in terms of a dollar

00:36:09   figure, not necessarily in terms of like actual dollars because of inflation and things like

00:36:14   that, but the largest single amount of money I've ever spent for a computer if I bought

00:36:20   an iMac Pro. I've never bought a $5,000 computer before. Generally, they're $2,500 computers

00:36:25   at most. But would I use it and would it make my job easier and would everything go faster

00:36:33   and would I be more productive? Yeah, actually, yeah, it's true, I would be. So maybe, we'll

00:36:41   see. The good news is, like the 4K or the 5K iMac, sorry, the 5K iMac, my hope is that

00:36:50   I will get to review the iMac Pro. Because that's what happened with the 5K iMac. I wrote

00:36:57   a review of it, Apple sent me one and I used it and I wrote a review of it and I sent it

00:37:00   it back to Apple. And before I had even sent it back to Apple, I had ordered one, right?

00:37:05   So my hope is that it'll be something like that. I'll get to try it out and say, okay,

00:37:08   let's see how this thing works. Another funny thing that actually works in my favor for

00:37:12   the iMac Pro is that it's going to be VESA mountable. Unlike the current generation of

00:37:19   iMacs where you have to order it as either one with a stand or one that's VESA mountable,

00:37:25   which led to me carrying my iMac like a, I don't know, like a box of pizza when I was

00:37:33   taking it in to get it fixed because it was off the arm and just this slab has no stand

00:37:39   or anything. Anyway, the iMac Pro has, apparently it's like the old iMacs where you can pop

00:37:47   off the stand and mount it, and it's just one configuration for both. Because if I do

00:37:55   hand down my existing iMac, I'm gonna have to get basically either wall mounted somewhere

00:37:59   or I'm gonna have to buy a VESA mount computer stand to stand it, because it doesn't have

00:38:06   a stand of its own. It's made to be mounted. So now I'm leaning toward that. We'll see

00:38:11   how it is. If I get to review it, that'll be great, because I'll get to try out the

00:38:15   iMac Pro and see for myself how, if it's something I want to do. So yeah.

00:38:22   That's awesome. I'm very keen to know how you feel about it. I can't see myself buying an iMac Pro. I don't need it. I'm good.

00:38:33   I really do believe that the iMac that I have right now is going to be my computer for the next few years because I very rarely have to do anything like what you do.

00:38:44   what you do because most of the shows that I do are with people that are in

00:38:51   predictable environments, right? So like the amount of times that I have to do

00:38:55   any severe audio processing is very minimal and a lot of the applications

00:38:59   that I use that do require processing power, they're not fully optimized in a

00:39:05   way that maybe iZotope would be, right? To use all of those cores. Yeah exactly.

00:39:09   That's gonna be my argument when we get to the end of the year is, okay,

00:39:13   this is what a $5,000 and I think a lot of a lot of people who are kind of on the

00:39:18   pro side of Mac usage are going to have this moment which is what do I get for

00:39:25   $5,000 with the base model iMac Pro versus what do I get for the build to

00:39:32   order high-end iMac, 5k iMac and what's the difference there and what's the real

00:39:39   difference there right because the true pinned multi processor you know multi

00:39:44   core processor test the iMac Pro will undoubtedly blow away the iMac right

00:39:51   yeah because it's it's it's made to do that but in your everyday life will you

00:39:57   see the benefits and for a certain Steven Hackett about this too because of

00:40:02   video stuff right like I also do for some of the stuff I do I do video stuff

00:40:07   Stephen's doing a lot of video. Encoding 4K video is another place where it's like, "Wow."

00:40:11   When I encode video for Total Party Kill, I often will just leave it overnight. And it doesn't take

00:40:19   all night to finish. It finishes in an hour or two. But I just, at the end of the day, I'm like,

00:40:22   "All right, export the file here." And I walk away because it is a long process. And that's just 1080

00:40:27   video. So that's another... This is a question, do you do stuff that is going to use eight cores?

00:40:35   No, like I don't or are you really just gonna benefit from by having a fast?

00:40:39   i7 and fast storage and is that all you really need because even video I have absolutely no intention of doing 4k

00:40:46   right and I know that like

00:40:48   Stephen has all these problems and of trying to do with things in 4k

00:40:52   Like I've had some people ask me questions about this before like Final Cut can deal with it

00:40:57   But it is really tough and I guess an iMac Pro is built to handle these types of tasks providing the applications of

00:41:04   Develop to take advantage of all of it, but it's more power than I need especially for how little time

00:41:10   I you know in my life sit in front of my iMac like most of my

00:41:15   Working time really is an iOS. So I'm kind of good, you know

00:41:19   But I get why lots of people will look at the iMac pros why the computer should exist in the first place

00:41:25   But I'm also Jason waiting. I'm waiting before I make any choices to see what the Mac Pro is

00:41:32   That I just want to see right like my next computer and maybe two or three years

00:41:36   Is it gonna be an iMac Pro or is it gonna be a Mac Pro? I don't know yet, right?

00:41:42   And so I'm I'm keen to wait it out

00:41:45   It's like another reason like just a way out any kind of upgrade to see

00:41:50   Maybe next year what the Mac Pro looks like because you never know like it might be better for me for my things at that

00:41:56   Point, but I just can't foresee it right now

00:41:58   Yeah, I think

00:42:01   You know pros of the Mac Pro is if a spider gets in your monitor, you can just get a new monitor

00:42:05   Exactly, but I I don't know. I'm I'm I'm not sure that's a that's a path. I need to walk down

00:42:13   But it is I can see how some people are gonna be and that that's Apple's intention was not to have a Mac Pro

00:42:20   Right, so that there's the question of what's that Mac Pro gonna be?

00:42:22   That's why I'm even more intrigued by it because it shouldn't exist. This should be it

00:42:27   It's a product that shouldn't exist. It's true. And the iMac Pro was meant to replace

00:42:31   it and of course now it's not going to replace it, which is a question of like, what's the

00:42:35   iMac Pro versus the Mac Pro? That's going to be really interesting to watch. Yeah, so

00:42:39   we'll see. But I'm now much more also as somebody who runs my own business and we have the way

00:42:45   that the tax and structure of the business work, you know, we try to, this is boring,

00:42:50   but forgive me for a second. We try to have the business be, um, break even basically

00:42:56   because all the profit is then rules into our taxes

00:42:59   and we have to pay our taxes anyway.

00:43:01   So we rather the business break even

00:43:02   and then we just pay the taxes on the money that we make.

00:43:06   What that means, net result is at the end of the year,

00:43:09   I'm seriously considering buying things

00:43:12   because that helps make the,

00:43:15   that's a good time to buy stuff

00:43:17   is at the end of the year where we're wrapping up the books

00:43:19   for the calendar year.

00:43:21   And so buying an iMac or an iMac Pro in December,

00:43:25   It's great. I hope it doesn't. I hope I can buy one in December and it doesn't.

00:43:29   It doesn't get delayed to January cause then that will make me sad. But, uh,

00:43:34   but yeah, so we'll see. We'll, we'll see. Um, but I,

00:43:37   I'm now leaning that way because although the iMac that I have is amazing other

00:43:42   than the spider and I really like it and it's so powerful and it's so great for

00:43:49   so many things.

00:43:49   The truth is that a lot of this stuff that I do does make me sad.

00:43:55   does take a lot of extra power. And although it does it in an amazingly short amount of

00:44:01   time, there now exist computers that could shave that time quite a bit. And, you know,

00:44:08   it's not the stuff, it's not me typing words, right? It's not me looking at pictures. It's

00:44:11   the churning through hundreds of gigabytes of audio and video and stuff like that. So

00:44:20   So maybe, maybe. So this is the path that the spider sent me down, but in the end, the

00:44:28   spider is a separate issue. The spider just sort of made me also think about, do I want

00:44:34   to get a new iMac? Do I want to make sure that this iMac doesn't have a spider in it

00:44:39   so that I can pass it down or sell it and get a new iMac? Because we got to that point,

00:44:46   It's suddenly, it's like, I can't just freely at any point

00:44:49   give this thing away or sell it

00:44:51   because there's now a spider embedded in the screen.

00:44:53   So it was the, it was a,

00:44:56   it just forced me to think of the larger issues

00:44:59   that I had been already thinking about

00:45:00   involving my iMac and whether I want to upgrade

00:45:04   after three years.

00:45:05   - Spider is a metaphor, you know.

00:45:08   - The spider makes, the spider makes us consider our lives.

00:45:13   I think, Myke.

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00:47:17   It is emoji season.

00:47:18   It is.

00:47:20   Apple have previewed more emoji.

00:47:22   So if you remember a few months ago, Apple showed off some of the emoji that they were

00:47:26   going to be doing.

00:47:27   It included some of the elf and stuff like that, all of the mythical beings that they're

00:47:34   putting in along with some of the other faces that they're adding.

00:47:38   While they've now previewed even more emoji that are going to, and they've also said when

00:47:43   we're going to get them, they're going to come in 11.1 which is also going to be in

00:47:47   beta this week.

00:47:49   So I think on public and developer beta they're going to be pushing the emoji out on 11.1

00:47:53   and then 11.1 I reckon will probably come out around iPhone 10 time if not before.

00:48:01   Some of the new emoji that have been shown are face with monocore which I will be using

00:48:06   with abundance. Some gender neutral emoji for children, adult and older adult. Cup with

00:48:12   a straw which is an emoji that I have wanted for a long time. One of the first conversations

00:48:17   I had with Emojipedia maestro, Mr Jeremy Burge is why is there not a cup with a straw emoji

00:48:24   and the reason this frustrated me is because in Apple's picker, you know like they have

00:48:28   like the food picker, it used to have a cup of a straw in it.

00:48:30   So there's actually no emoji for that, so that's coming.

00:48:33   A smiling hedgehog, which is one of the cutest emoji

00:48:37   that has ever existed.

00:48:38   There is the American Sign Language sign for I love you,

00:48:42   which I think is amazing.

00:48:45   And I think will get used a lot, which is a great one.

00:48:48   And there's stuff like sleds, curling stones,

00:48:51   you need for curling. - Curling stone, yeah.

00:48:52   - Which is just a beautiful emoji.

00:48:54   It is beautifully done and just in time for the Winter Olympics.

00:48:59   Yep.

00:48:59   Because that's when people will use it.

00:49:01   It's the only time.

00:49:02   There will be curling.

00:49:03   I will wear the curling emoji out in February.

00:49:08   I'm telling you now.

00:49:09   And also, one I think will also be used a ton

00:49:13   is a shushing face.

00:49:14   So a face with a lip to the mouth to be like shh.

00:49:19   So that's a good one.

00:49:20   That one's going to be used a lot.

00:49:21   There's a lot of great new emoji coming in here.

00:49:23   I'm very excited about it.

00:49:24   - And it's probably-- - Smiley with a monocle.

00:49:26   - Smiley with a monocle. - That kills me.

00:49:27   I think monocles are hilarious

00:49:29   and now there's a smiley with a monocle.

00:49:31   So that one's gonna get used

00:49:33   in all sorts of ironic ways, I think.

00:49:34   That'll be great. - The swearing face,

00:49:36   the stars in eyes, the vomit face,

00:49:37   the mind exploding, the dinosaurs.

00:49:41   This is a really great update.

00:49:42   There's gonna be a lot in there.

00:49:43   And as always, we spoke about this a bunch,

00:49:47   adding new emoji drives iOS adoption

00:49:50   because your friends start sending you emoji

00:49:52   that you can't see.

00:49:53   So you will update to iOS 11 as well.

00:49:56   And there have been reports,

00:49:57   and I'll put a link in the show notes

00:49:59   to an article on MacRumors,

00:50:01   that iOS adoption has been a little bit slower

00:50:04   than usual with iOS 11.

00:50:07   So it's currently installed, as of a couple of weeks ago,

00:50:09   on like 25% of devices,

00:50:11   but this is slower than it's been in the past.

00:50:13   Like iOS 10 was at 34% at the same period of time.

00:50:17   So it's not horrifically slower, but it is slower.

00:50:20   And I will say personally,

00:50:22   I don't know if you've seen this Jason, but this has I have not noticed this personally

00:50:27   but I've been seeing a lot of people talking online and we had a

00:50:30   Family dinner yesterday and every single member of my family was telling me about the battery life problems that they're having on their phones since iOS

00:50:37   11 yeah, this is like after a couple of weeks of updating so that initial

00:50:41   Processing of all the photos and whatever it does should be done by now

00:50:44   But people were showing me you know like it was like one o'clock in the afternoon

00:50:48   And there were like low power warnings happening on people's phones

00:50:51   phones. So something going on in 11 I think for a lot of people.

00:50:55   It's unclear right? I mean it's hard to pin down but I've definitely heard people report

00:50:59   on it. Older models, this seems to have been an update that I've heard from a lot of people

00:51:06   with iPhone 6s who have who say that it is really slow.

00:51:12   Yeah this is predominantly 6 and 6s that are in the family that most of my members of my

00:51:19   family have either an iPhone 6 or an iPhone 6s, and they were all having these problems.

00:51:25   So I hope that, you know, something will happen here with 11.1 maybe to try and address some

00:51:30   of this stuff. Apple has been pushing out a bunch of updates, you know, we've got a

00:51:33   0.01, a 0.02, and I hope that some of that is fixing this.

00:51:37   It does, it's interesting, I mean, you mentioned the emoji thing, and we, it's so easy for

00:51:41   people to say, "I can't believe they're talking about emoji, this isn't particularly important."

00:51:46   I will point out that Apple went to the trouble of doing an entire press release basically.

00:51:49   - Two. They've done two now for this emoji release.

00:51:52   - Yeah, well, right. They did one on World Emoji Day and now they've done a one on Friday.

00:51:57   They did one about the new emojis in iOS 11.1. They know that this is a thing. It's funny

00:52:01   that they come in the point one release and not in the point O release. I don't know what

00:52:06   that is. Maybe that's just to spur people to update who have held out. There may be

00:52:13   a strategy to it, which would be interesting if there's a strategy. Like the early adopters

00:52:17   get the first version and then the laggards start getting, they demand the later version

00:52:24   because their friends aren't sending them. But they know that this drives interest in

00:52:28   the operating systems and it's this purely social way of forcing your peers to update

00:52:35   because you need to update to see the emoji and to use the emoji, which people want to

00:52:40   do once they once once these new if you use emoji it's like oh my god I can use

00:52:44   that emoji now and like it's like the moment when Myke realized he could start

00:52:48   sending the nerd emoji right it was huge so like if you think about it right

00:52:53   let's let you well this the the the understood wisdom is that it does help

00:52:56   push adoption so if you know this like if Apple will notice if you know this

00:53:00   piece of information isn't it better to let the OS out to a small like a smaller

00:53:07   a subset of users to make sure that you iron out any bugs before you push the update that

00:53:12   forces the rest of the user base to update.

00:53:15   I think that there is a logic to that.

00:53:18   It is very, very normal for an OS to go out and there to be widespread problems that didn't

00:53:22   come out in testing.

00:53:23   This is just a normal thing that happens.

00:53:25   It happens with all types of software.

00:53:28   So it maybe would make sense to do the public beta, you find out what you find out, you

00:53:32   push it out to everybody else and then you find out more stuff.

00:53:34   Oh, there's battery life problems.

00:53:36   "Well, let's fix those before we push out the update that makes the rest of our users

00:53:40   update because they want the emoji."

00:53:42   I can see why you would maybe stage this if this is the case, right?

00:53:46   Because the emoji are done.

00:53:47   They're showing them to us.

00:53:48   They're done.

00:53:49   Right, they're clearly done.

00:53:50   It's done.

00:53:51   And I don't think it is an incredibly difficult process of putting these into the OS.

00:53:58   I can't imagine that it needs a team of 50 people to put the code points in.

00:54:04   I wanted to mention, and this is something I find, because I find this emoji stuff fascinating,

00:54:08   because it's like, as much as people kind of roll their eyes out, I feel like this is really

00:54:13   meaningful. Like people are using this as a method of communicating. It solves a lot of problems that

00:54:17   when we went to computer communication and plain text was all we had and you lost a lot of nuance

00:54:23   of speech intonation and body language, right? That emoji is kind of like, become a way of

00:54:31   bringing some of that back and it's got new meetings and I think it's going to be with

00:54:35   us for a very long time to come. And so it constantly fascinates me. One of the things

00:54:42   that I'm also interested in is how software provides access to emoji because one of the

00:54:49   challenges is with all these new emoji, the emoji keyboard is unwieldy, right? And I feel

00:54:54   like Apple still providing you a picker with a million smiley faces in it. It's like I

00:54:59   know that you can now do the smiley face, you know, you type "pizza" and the autocorrect

00:55:05   thing will suggest a pizza emoji to you, which is, that's a start, but I feel like there's

00:55:09   more that needs to happen here in terms of clever ways to get people the emoji that they

00:55:15   want. And I know there are like third-party emoji keyboards, but I want to see Apple,

00:55:21   Apple's investing a lot in emoji art and rolling these things out and publicizing them. I'm

00:55:26   not entirely convinced that the people who build the keyboard are, at least I

00:55:32   haven't seen any evidence that the people who build Apple's keyboard app

00:55:35   have really tried to think about better ways of doing emoji input and then and

00:55:40   forget on the Mac, like on the Mac it's a complete disaster unless you're using

00:55:44   slack basically and that needs to be better too because I, you know, these

00:55:50   these are part of our lexicon and they need to be easier to use. I would say

00:55:54   that the Mac is better because there's a search bar in the picker right at least

00:55:58   has that well that right but you have to bring up the picker yeah which is yes a

00:56:01   terrible you can't search in iOS right if you if you've got a you're just

00:56:05   looking for a particular flag you can't search you you have to have the the auto

00:56:10   correct bar up and then you can type the name of the country and it will do it

00:56:15   it'll show I will say if you're using the messages app there is a software

00:56:18   button for emoji as well which I always forget is there's like a little smiley

00:56:22   face just in the message window but you know we use so many different

00:56:26   applications and it would be better to have you know honestly I would like there

00:56:30   to just be an emoji key on the keyboard right like that would just be great like

00:56:33   just put a hardware emoji key on the keyboard and then I can just bring up a

00:56:36   pic or I'd be very happy with that I use Gboard on iOS and it has when in

00:56:43   their emoji thing it has a search view as a search field you can type in

00:56:46   whatever you want they put in a bunch of different meanings right so like there

00:56:50   are a lot of words attached to each emoji based upon what people actually use them for.

00:56:54   Like there are some interesting ones, like if you search the word "but" a peach comes

00:57:00   up. The peach comes up, yeah. Google understands, right? It's what people use these emojis for.

00:57:05   Not that I ever send these types of emojis. No, you wouldn't do that. You're right about

00:57:09   the smiley button in the text window. It's easy to forget. That's a nice place contextually.

00:57:14   problem is it you know if access to emoji in certain apps right versus

00:57:22   everywhere is yeah that's like slack for me slack has become the default way I

00:57:28   use emoji in slack way more than anywhere else and it's because slack has

00:57:31   built in really easy access to emoji you type a colon and you start to type a

00:57:36   word that you think is an emoji and it and it pops up a little list above it of

00:57:42   suggestions and you can pick one and hit return and you're done right it's so

00:57:46   easy to do and that is a that emoji expression is now a native part of of

00:57:51   slack and I you know I want an experience kind of like that and I don't

00:57:56   know what that is whether there's a system wide keyboard shortcut for emoji

00:58:01   search that inserts something because that's actually what I do on the Mac is

00:58:04   launch bar has an emoji search and so I enter launch bar and type the name of an

00:58:09   emoji and press return and it inserts it. And I do it that way.

00:58:13   I can't let Slack get away from this conversation, though, without saying how terrible they are

00:58:19   at supporting emoji. Emoji is a massive part of their system. It's in all their communication.

00:58:26   Emoji is part of Slack's brand.

00:58:27   They're like a year behind, two years behind, on the new emoji?

00:58:30   They will now be a year behind on releases of emoji. So they haven't yet implemented

00:58:35   the emoji from this time last year.

00:58:38   From last year, yeah.

00:58:39   mind-boggling. What is their problem? Mind-boggling because emoji is such a big

00:58:43   part of their corporate brand. They use it everywhere. Yeah, then again I do use

00:58:48   I do use custom emoji a lot in Slack which is kind of nice and that's not

00:58:52   something that's real like that's not part of the standard but there is that's

00:58:55   an interesting little lab for how people use if people can make their own emoji

00:59:01   what which ones would take off and which ones wouldn't and I'm not yet ready to

00:59:06   to follow in the footsteps of Mark Bramhill of Welcome to Macintosh and

00:59:09   propose my own emoji even though I use the Skeletor emoji, well sorry,

00:59:15   hooded skeleton all the time. Maybe someday we'll get a skeleton emoji.

00:59:23   Maybe we could do a, I mean, I think there might be a skeleton emoji but

00:59:26   it's not the Skeletor emoji, so maybe skeletons need a like a variant for

00:59:34   yellow skeletons with hoods I don't know. Before we leave emoji corner there's two

00:59:40   other things I want to bring up something was fascinating I saw this on the Emojipedia blog.

00:59:45   Last week the whatsapp beta for Android got new emoji. Now just a piece of context which makes

00:59:55   this very interesting. Jeremy Burge is a personal friend and we talk about this a lot when we talk

01:00:02   about emoji. WhatsApp use Apple's emoji artwork on Android.

01:00:08   The Apple emoji artwork on Android because they wanted to have all the emoji and WhatsApp

01:00:14   look the same. And it is unclear if and how Apple allow this,

01:00:21   right? Like, are they cool with this? Are they not? It's unknown. However, in the beta

01:00:26   that was just released last week, WhatsApp have recreated Apple's emoji. They are new icons,

01:00:34   but they are extremely similar to Apple's. Now this isn't in the release version yet,

01:00:41   it's unknown if it will be, it's also unknown if it's also going to find its way to iOS,

01:00:44   but it may look like, I think at this point, whatever was going on, Apple was maybe unhappy

01:00:50   with it now and you know that this is what they have decided to do is to alright we're

01:00:57   going to make our own and they're going to look exactly like yours. So that's the thing

01:01:00   that's out there. It's a very interesting thing to see what's out there to make that

01:01:03   change.

01:01:04   Tim Cynova Yeah that's again fascinating. We've talked

01:01:08   about it before on this show too because we both talked to Jeremy Burge a lot from Emojipedia

01:01:14   about this stuff and he knows we're interested in this stuff and the emoji fragmentation

01:01:18   issue always comes up, which is that every platform shows its own emoji. There's no—Unicode

01:01:24   Consortium doesn't produce an emoji image and hand it out for everyone to use. Everybody

01:01:30   has to produce their own.

01:01:31   They produce a description.

01:01:33   Yeah. And that can lead to interesting things like the cup with the straw, which in some

01:01:36   places is a glass with a—you know, a clear glass with a straw dropped into it. And in

01:01:42   other places it's a—like apples is a—it's like a white takeaway container with a lid

01:01:46   and a red straw inserted in it.

01:01:49   It's very different because they've interpreted it different.

01:01:52   And that happens, the woman and man in the steam room

01:01:57   are very different in some different ones

01:01:59   where it's more of just a face with some steam

01:02:01   versus somebody having like a back scratcher

01:02:03   or something like that,

01:02:04   where it's more like a spa kind of thing.

01:02:07   And that's all up to the interpretation.

01:02:09   But WhatsApp's always been interesting

01:02:10   because they just basically just used Apple's emoji set

01:02:15   on Android in order to keep them in parallel.

01:02:17   And this is the big mystery is, was that allowed?

01:02:20   Was that just a rogue thing that Apple didn't know about

01:02:23   or didn't care about?

01:02:24   Did, you know, did Apple give them a warning and say,

01:02:27   you guys need to make your own emoji set on,

01:02:30   at least for Android?

01:02:32   We don't know, but obviously they have made

01:02:35   their own emoji set.

01:02:36   - Yeah, something's changed, but we don't know.

01:02:38   Before we move on, Joe Steele was very rightly

01:02:42   pointing this out because we've probably already had people

01:02:44   that have sent this link to us.

01:02:47   If you're listening to this show,

01:02:48   there is this Mac app thing called Rocket,

01:02:52   which kind of enables an emoji picker,

01:02:54   which is very similar to Slacks Anywhere on Mac OS.

01:02:59   - I tried it and I couldn't use it because it, yeah,

01:03:04   it didn't, I was very excited about it

01:03:06   and it works in some places.

01:03:07   And then I started to, I can't remember now,

01:03:11   basically at some point I thought,

01:03:12   This is too far the other way.

01:03:15   We're now emojifying is happening in places

01:03:17   where I don't want it to happen.

01:03:18   So, but yeah, it's there.

01:03:20   And the whole goal of it as a Mac app

01:03:22   is to make it way easier to put emoji everywhere

01:03:25   that you put text.

01:03:27   - All right, this week's episode

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01:04:42   Jason, it's time for #AskUpgrade.

01:04:49   First question this week comes from Anton.

01:04:50   Anton wants to know, "What do I have to do to get photos to sync people and their faces

01:04:55   between iOS 11 and High Sierra automagically?"

01:04:58   Well, ideally you have to do nothing, although what you do need to do is train. It should work, but it doesn't always work.

01:05:08   This seems to be the story with photos in iOS 11 and High Sierra right now, is that it should work, but it doesn't always work.

01:05:14   I've seen people get it to work, and I've seen people not get it to work.

01:05:18   The idea is that when you say it doesn't sync the face training data, but it will

01:05:25   if you say this photo is of this person, that rides along with it, which

01:05:31   allows the other device to train its photos more easily because it can use

01:05:37   the data that you provided. So what you need to do is sit down at a Mac or I

01:05:43   mean I guess you could use your iPhone or iPad to do this too, but sit down at a

01:05:46   device and identify a bunch of the faces in your photos and start training it a

01:05:50   little bit and then that should sync. One of the problems that I'm having

01:05:55   and it makes me wonder if some of the battery things might be related to

01:05:58   photos after all is it seems like photos is not indexing the photos

01:06:07   in a reasonable amount of time like it should. I've had that

01:06:15   happen where I've looked at my photo library and it says it's still scanning

01:06:18   photos and it's been a while now and it's still scanning photos. So I wonder

01:06:24   if there's some things going on there that are going to have to be addressed

01:06:27   in an update, but ideally the way it's supposed to work is you train your

01:06:31   faces. You say this is this person and there's a drag and

01:06:37   drop interface. You can actually select a bunch of the same person and drag them

01:06:40   on to the person you've already identified as that person and merge them

01:06:44   all together and that sort of sweeps it up. They threw away the old face scanning

01:06:48   interface and put in this brand new interface for iOS 11 so it's a different

01:06:52   it's a whole different thing but it's very good at finding faces because I

01:06:59   keep seeing people in my people library that are like pictures of people in

01:07:04   screenshots I took and they're like oh there's a person it's like no that's

01:07:07   just a guy in a screenshot or there's somebody who is on the TV in the

01:07:11   background of this picture I took. Do you know this person? No, I don't know that person.

01:07:15   When machine learning gets too powerful. Yeah, well it is like finding all the faces.

01:07:22   So yeah, you're not supposed to do anything, it's supposed to just work. And if you're

01:07:25   having trouble with it, I don't know what to tell you right now other than maybe try

01:07:30   to give it a kick by assigning some faces. But don't expect a one-to-one correlation

01:07:37   'cause that's not how it's set up.

01:07:39   It's not going to,

01:07:40   only the faces that you train are the faces

01:07:43   that it knows are that person.

01:07:47   It has to reprocess everything and get,

01:07:50   ideally get using the same code

01:07:52   to the same point on the devices.

01:07:54   It's dumb, this is one of those things where

01:07:56   I think Apple needs to spend more time

01:07:59   dealing with photos, syncing and metadata across devices.

01:08:04   And they've come some distance

01:08:06   in the last year and a half but they need to go way way further down this path.

01:08:10   I feel like we might be saying this forever.

01:08:12   Steve wants to know is there an impact to picture quality if I select a new key

01:08:16   photo from a live photo in iOS 11?

01:08:19   Yeah I need to test this some more I think so I would like to think that iOS 11

01:08:26   is shooting several photos that are stills and wrapping them up in the

01:08:31   heath file, because remember the heath file can contain multiple images

01:08:37   from like a burst, it can contain a video or just a link to the HEVC video. I need

01:08:42   to take this apart.

01:08:44   My assumption is yes, that if you pick a different key photo, because you don't

01:08:49   have to pick the one that was actually selected, you can slide it around in the

01:08:52   live photo and pick a different one.

01:08:54   My guess is yes, but I don't know that 100%. I need to investigate this more. I'm

01:08:58   planning on updating my book and some of this stuff has just gone by the wayside

01:09:01   because I haven't had a chance with all the other stuff that's come out. So that

01:09:05   one's on my list. I'm unclear what's happening because ideally what's

01:09:10   happening in iOS 11 is when you capture a live photo it should be capturing

01:09:14   video and it should be capturing more than one high-quality still and then

01:09:18   ideally you could you could pick from the high-quality stills, choose a new

01:09:22   key photo and it would still be a good photo instead of choosing a lower

01:09:27   resolution video frame at which point you just got a low res video frame

01:09:32   instead of your pretty picture even if it's a better pose it doesn't help if

01:09:36   it's way lower quality yeah so that's what it does for pre ios 11 photos where

01:09:41   you end up with a low quality image yeah but I would like my my hope is that

01:09:46   Apple is taking advantage of their new file formats and maybe more powerful

01:09:51   powerful hardware in later, in the more recent models of iPhone to pack more stuff in a live

01:10:00   photo. But I don't know, I will, I'll investigate and ask Apple and I'll let everybody know

01:10:07   sometime down the road about this.

01:10:09   Logan wants to know, "What pre-order strategy should I use on the 27th for the best chance

01:10:14   of getting an iPhone X? Multiple devices, use the Apple Store app and the website, just

01:10:21   multiple devices, as many devices as you can get, try and use them all at once

01:10:24   that's what I'll be doing I'm gonna be sitting at my desk with my iMac and my

01:10:29   two iPads and my phone and across the swath of devices I will be attempting to

01:10:35   put my pre-order in for an iPhone 10. Yeah if you had to if you had to choose

01:10:43   one it would be an iOS device running the Apple Store app we we have

01:10:49   discovered that lots of people do this because some enormous percentage of

01:10:53   orders come through the Apple Store app for this stuff and people know it works

01:10:57   but it works too because for whatever reason with Apple systems the app

01:11:01   instead of the whatever web app they've got running on the website the the you

01:11:06   know the app iOS app has access to the same back end stuff but is better

01:11:12   connected apparently in some way or more robust in in connecting to it so but

01:11:19   But yeah, if you really want to do it, be sure you're wide awake and have all your devices

01:11:27   accessing places where you can buy these things and just be quick.

01:11:31   John wants to know, on the Apple Watch, is improved series speed with the Series 3 tied

01:11:35   to the LTE or will the GPS only version be faster also?

01:11:41   I believe it's tied to the new processor.

01:11:43   That's what makes it faster.

01:11:44   Yeah, it's the new processor in the Series 3, it's not the LTE.

01:11:48   Because most of the time the Siri stuff isn't going over LTE anyway, it's just processing

01:11:53   on the device and being able to listen and being able to speak, which it can do. So it

01:11:58   shouldn't be related to the cellular at all.

01:12:01   All of the new Siri features including the speaker and like talking back to you, that

01:12:07   is series 3, not necessarily L2, it's just the series 3.

01:12:12   Kyle wants to know, for your various projects, is there always a specific time for uploading

01:12:16   on a day or posting on a certain time, do we worry about that? Only for my calendar.

01:12:25   I just do things on the day that I do them and I post them on the day that I do them.

01:12:29   I don't spend a lot of time fretting over a perfect upload day and time for my projects.

01:12:35   It's kind of just like when it's done, it goes up.

01:12:37   Tim Cynova Yeah, I mean people will sometimes set their

01:12:40   schedules around our release date and it definitely happens when an episode gets released later,

01:12:46   notice which is great right? Although we feel bad in the moment it also means that we have

01:12:50   an audience that actually expects us to deliver and I think that's great because that's what

01:12:54   we should do and we generally do. We've trained them by being consistent and now they've come

01:12:59   to expect it from us and we need to deliver but there's wiggle room in there. It's very

01:13:05   rare that somebody says, "Oh well, you didn't release upgrade at 11 a.m. Pacific or 12 or

01:13:12   or whatever, what's wrong if we do it at four. Maybe some people will, but it's not as big

01:13:17   a number. I do for a lot of my stuff, it's, I know the release schedule even if nobody else does.

01:13:24   I do, I push a lot of stuff out at eight or nine in the morning, my time, because I want it to be

01:13:29   released that day and it's ready to go in advance. And I just set it to then, because then I'm awake

01:13:33   and I can see that it's going up. Or I'll put, I'll either push it live or on the incomparable,

01:13:38   I can schedule it to go live and I watch and see that it happens. So some of it is like

01:13:43   that. So I will use a time like nine o'clock, just Pacific, just to get it out there. But

01:13:49   other times it's when it's done, it goes out or it's just, I need to get out this day.

01:13:53   With the incomparable, even though it usually releases on Saturday mornings, my time, the

01:13:58   only rule I have there is it comes out on the weekend. I mostly do it Saturdays and

01:14:04   every now and then I release on a Sunday and people say, "Is there no episode this weekend?"

01:14:07   which again is nice that they noticed, but I hold myself to releasing it on the weekend,

01:14:12   which is something that goes back to when I had a regular job and that was the time

01:14:16   I had to work on the side project was on the weekend, but I still sort of do it that way

01:14:21   most of the time. So yeah, it's on the web, my understanding, you know, from back in the

01:14:27   day when I worked at IDG, there is a certain time that is peak web traffic in the US and

01:14:33   It tends to be 11 a.m. Pacific to Eastern. That's the high point, the peak. And if you

01:14:39   want to hit a story at the peak, that's when you put it out there. But there are lots of

01:14:43   philosophies about making things available later for evening commuters or making them

01:14:48   available early in the morning for morning commuters, people on trains and buses and

01:14:52   things to read. Podcast is different because it's when is the download happening for people

01:14:57   to listen? Are they getting it on their ride home? Are they getting it on their ride in?

01:15:01   of theories, everybody's different, I think there's no particular best practices, so in

01:15:05   most cases it's like Myke, we've got a general rule, and then you post it when it's ready.

01:15:09   Yeah.

01:15:10   It's like they go out on the day that they tend to go out on, but I don't really fret

01:15:14   about time.

01:15:15   And for me, if I've got them in advance, then I post them basically first thing in the morning

01:15:18   when I'm up and working, just so that, you know, I wait until the day it's released,

01:15:24   but at that point I just want to get on with my day, so I post all of them at 9am and I

01:15:28   move on.

01:15:29   Yeah.

01:15:30   today Brian asked, "The new App Store today view has made me go from basically never checking

01:15:34   the App Store to looking at it daily. Are you doing the same?" I am. I'm finding myself

01:15:39   going to that today view every day. I have looked at the articles. There tends to be

01:15:43   something I'm interested in. I think that the time has shown for me that this new App

01:15:49   Store redesign is really successful and I'm finding a lot of new apps and games because

01:15:54   of it.

01:15:55   Yeah, I'm using it more. I wouldn't say daily, but I'm using it more as something other than a place where I check the updates.

01:16:02   And that's good. I have definitely read articles there and used it to read about things and find things that I'm interested in.

01:16:12   I also really appreciate, and they used to do this, it's just a little more visible now, that when I think to myself,

01:16:17   "Oh, you know, I want to try out some of the apps that use drag-and-drop or that use ARKit,"

01:16:22   that they've got nice collections of those sitting there for me to try.

01:16:26   Yeah, the collections, as you say, maybe have always existed,

01:16:29   but they're way more visible now than they have been in the past,

01:16:31   and they've done more to make those pages look nicer. I really like the overall look

01:16:36   of the App Store pages. We spoke about that a couple of weeks ago. I think this App Store

01:16:40   redesign, at least for users, has turned out to be great. One thing that I have noticed,

01:16:44   I don't check the newer noteworthy anymore really, but I used to do that, but I don't

01:16:49   really look at the games category and the apps category, I tend to just look at what's

01:16:52   on the today view that they have.

01:16:55   Just as a personal anecdote, but I really do like that, I think that the articles are

01:16:59   well done and I like the variation to the stuff that they pick and most of the time

01:17:04   the things that I look at, whether I would want them or not, I can see that they look

01:17:08   to be really good quality applications, so I think it's been really great and I hope

01:17:12   that Apple can keep it up.

01:17:13   All right, that is it for this week's episode. If you want to find our show notes go to relay.fm/upgrades/162.

01:17:22   Thanks again to our sponsors, the great folk over at Freshbooks, Flightlogger and Encapsula.

01:17:27   If you want to find Jason's work go to sixcolors.com and the incomparable.com and like me, Jason

01:17:32   hosts many shows at relay.fm. Go to relay.fm/shows and you can find a list of all of the shows

01:17:37   that we do there. If you only listen to Upgrade and maybe one or two of our podcasts, there's

01:17:41   a ton more I'm sure that you will be able to pick at least one more to add to your list.

01:17:45   We produce lots of great content at Relay FM and I'd like you to check some of it out

01:17:49   if you haven't already. Jason is @jsnell on Twitter, J S N E double L. I am @imike, I

01:17:56   M Y K E. We'll be back next week where we'll be able to high five at this point in the

01:18:00   show. Until then, say goodbye Jason Snell. Until next week Myke Hurley. Keep those spiders

01:18:08   away from me. Please don't bring any. I don't want any in my computers. Please keep the spiders away.

01:18:12   Yeah, the spiders stay here. This is their home.

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