157: The 2017 iPhone Event Draft


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00:00:00   (upbeat music)

00:00:03   - From Relay FM, this is Upgrade,

00:00:11   episode 157, the iPhone keynote draft.

00:00:16   This episode is brought to you by Casper,

00:00:18   FreshBooks, and Encapsula.

00:00:20   My name is Myke Hurley, and I am back, baby,

00:00:22   and I am joined by Mr. Jason Snell.

00:00:26   - Hey, Myke, welcome back.

00:00:27   - Thank you. - It seems like

00:00:28   you were only gone a week if you're a listener,

00:00:31   but you were gone much longer.

00:00:33   - Much longer, many, many, many weeks.

00:00:35   It's been three and a half weeks,

00:00:38   I think since I've recorded Upgrade of You.

00:00:41   - Yeah, we did a week where we recorded,

00:00:43   and I'm not kidding about this, three episodes of Upgrade.

00:00:46   (laughing)

00:00:47   And then two weeks where there was no upgrade

00:00:49   and then the one last week with Merlin.

00:00:52   So I'm glad you're back.

00:00:53   - Do you know what though, Jason?

00:00:55   Jason, do you know what? - Nobody cares about that.

00:00:56   - Nobody cares about this. - Nobody cares about this.

00:00:58   #snelltalk this week comes in from Brent and Brent wants to know, "Jason, do you use any

00:01:04   podcast playlists in your app of choice and if so, what are they?"

00:01:09   I only have one. I have the priority playlist, the defining playlist, which is the stuff

00:01:16   that I… Some podcasts get automatically added to it and others I add manually from

00:01:23   overcast and put them in the queue. And so that's sort of how I do it, is that I've got

00:01:28   a queue of things that I'm manually adding and then the podcast that I've deemed strong

00:01:36   enough that I want to just every new episode goes in there. And that's my, which means

00:01:43   that a lot of times it's the ATP and Flophouse podcast with other podcasts also appearing.

00:01:51   But just the one, I don't have a separate podcast for a different mood.

00:01:57   Maybe I should try that sometime to when I want to listen to Dragon Friends or the Adventure

00:02:02   Zone or any of those Dungeons and Dragons podcasts or something like Hello from the

00:02:06   Magic Tavern.

00:02:07   I can put that in its own thing, but I don't.

00:02:09   I just sort of keep a collection of them teed up in the one playlist.

00:02:15   So I assume that you have all episodes, right?

00:02:19   in all unlisted episodes, and then the queue that you can get set up at Wovercast where

00:02:23   you pick, like, reorder things that you want to listen to, but then you also have the priority

00:02:28   list, and if anything's in there, it gets listened to first.

00:02:30   Yeah, so the priority list is the list, and then everything else I'll go into a podcast

00:02:36   and say, "Oh yeah, here's this episode." Like, Cortex is a good example, where -- and

00:02:42   And "Reconsolable Differences" is also a good example where I am, depending on who, how

00:02:49   you define it, I'm either way behind or I just pick and choose episodes.

00:02:52   Don't listen to every one, but I do listen to some.

00:02:55   And in both cases, I basically, I think I both have them set to not add to the priority

00:03:00   list and I will, every so often I'll be like, "Oh yeah, I want to listen to that episode

00:03:07   of Cortex," and I'll go in and add an episode or two of Cortex or Rec.

00:03:10   and I'll put them in there and then they're in there,

00:03:12   but they're not always in there.

00:03:14   - So for me, - Just as examples.

00:03:16   - I just have an all unfinished,

00:03:18   so every unfinished episode,

00:03:20   like every unlistened to episode,

00:03:21   and then a queue, and then I just go through the unlistened

00:03:26   and I add things to my queue, that's how I do things.

00:03:28   - Okay, I mean, that's basically what I have,

00:03:30   except I don't use the all unlistened.

00:03:33   Instead, I actually like look at the,

00:03:35   I very rarely use the all unlistened,

00:03:36   I just look at the podcasts,

00:03:38   and I'm generally driven by thinking like,

00:03:40   Oh, I haven't listened to Rec. Diffs for a little while and I'll add a couple episodes

00:03:44   and but rather than looking at that, you know, giant stack of every unlistened episode of

00:03:49   every podcast I subscribe to.

00:03:51   You're a picker and a chooser.

00:03:53   Guess so.

00:03:54   All right, I want to talk about the Summer of Fun real quick.

00:03:58   Summer of Fun!

00:03:59   Summer of Fun is over now.

00:04:03   I feel like considering this is the inaugural Summer of Fun, we have to set some parameters

00:04:08   I feel like the summer of fun ends with the iPhone keynote. That's when the summer of

00:04:14   fun ends.

00:04:15   I think you're right. I think you're right. So as we go into the draft today, we'll

00:04:18   be leaving the summer of fun behind. But the nice thing about the summer of fun, and again

00:04:22   just to peek behind the curtain here, is you can hear Myke invent the summer of fun in

00:04:29   the – which episode was that? In the –

00:04:32   It was the keynote draft. No, no, it was the one after that. Wait.

00:04:35   It was the –

00:04:36   No, it wasn't. Okay.

00:04:38   - It was the automation episode.

00:04:41   We invented, is that what we invented the summer of fun

00:04:45   in the automation episode or did we invent it in the draft

00:04:48   and then back? - No.

00:04:49   - So it's a complicated thing.

00:04:50   We invented it and then we had to go back.

00:04:52   That's what it was.

00:04:54   We invented it in the automation episode.

00:04:56   But then the next episode was the hardware draft.

00:05:01   - Which had already been recorded before.

00:05:05   - Which had already been recorded.

00:05:06   So we had to go back and rerecord the very beginning

00:05:09   of that episode to incorporate the Summer of Fun.

00:05:11   What I'm saying is we stumbled on the Summer of Fun.

00:05:14   You invented it.

00:05:15   You can hear me say, "Boy, you've got a real knack

00:05:17   for this branding, the Summer of Fun."

00:05:19   Thank goodness you didn't call it

00:05:20   the first annual Summer of Fun.

00:05:21   I would have gotten very angry with you.

00:05:23   But this all happened basically in August.

00:05:25   So what I'm saying is next year,

00:05:29   we will have to figure out what starts the Summer of Fun.

00:05:32   - Well, I actually know what it is,

00:05:34   but we can't talk about it right now.

00:05:36   but I know what begins the Summer of Fun

00:05:38   and the Summer of Fun may be longer next year.

00:05:40   - Is the Summer of Fun after WWDC?

00:05:44   - I believe it will start around then, yeah.

00:05:47   - Okay, so it's like draft to draft

00:05:49   from WWDC keynote to iPhone event is the Summer of Fun?

00:05:53   - Yeah, that's a good way of putting it.

00:05:54   Yeah, I like that.

00:05:55   So from, yeah, well, I know it's three months.

00:05:59   It might get a bit tiring

00:06:00   to shout Summer of Fun every episode.

00:06:02   That wasn't my thinking. - I don't think so.

00:06:03   - But okay, but we'll see.

00:06:05   We have plans. I'm thinking more on the Summer of Fun now as a thing to occur every

00:06:10   year because typically, unless firmware leaks, as we know, summer in technology news can

00:06:17   be tough. So it's about us coming up with some fun things to do over the summer.

00:06:22   Sure. And we travel a lot, right, which is one of the reasons the Summer of Fun actually

00:06:27   exists is we travel a lot. And we're sort of forced to be creative in order to have

00:06:33   Upgrade happen every week, which is why we had, I mean, the Summer of Fun this year was

00:06:38   essentially all these kind of unusual episodes because of travel.

00:06:42   Yep.

00:06:43   Talking about unusual things, we do Myke at the Movies every now and then, where we watch

00:06:49   a movie at the end of an episode of Upgrade.

00:06:51   We have the next Myke at the Movies movie picked.

00:06:54   We're going to be watching this for the episode on the 25th of September, so right at the

00:07:00   the end of this month and it is going to be Terminator 2. So this is your forewarning,

00:07:06   if you watch Terminator 2, it will be discussed on the episode on the 25th of September.

00:07:13   But today's episode, because it is the iPhone keynote draft, is all about the draft. And

00:07:19   we're going to get into the draft in just a moment, but before we do, let's talk about

00:07:24   the iPhone event itself. Because the reason we are doing our keynote draft today is because

00:07:28   there is going to be an iPhone keynote next Tuesday. But this iPhone keynote is slightly

00:07:32   different to other keynotes because of where it's taking place.

00:07:36   Yes. Which is in the Steve Jobs Theatre on Apple

00:07:40   Park. And it is the first time that the press at large, I believe, will be going to Apple

00:07:45   Park. And it's the first time that an event is going to be happening at the new campus

00:07:52   theatre. That's right. That's right. It's, uh, they

00:07:56   They sent out the RSVPs and they were all like in Apple Wallet and stuff.

00:08:00   You click and say "I'm coming" and then it adds a barcode to your Apple Wallet.

00:08:03   Which is funny.

00:08:04   And this is different?

00:08:05   Doesn't usually do that when you sign up for these events?

00:08:08   Usually it just says "Reply to RSVP whatever at Apple.com" and tell them you're coming.

00:08:15   And then usually you get an email from a PR person saying "Did you get the invitation?"

00:08:22   And you get another one saying "It's great that you're coming."

00:08:24   And what I'm saying is it was really super low-tech, not a system before.

00:08:32   And they actually have put in a system this time, which is kind of cool.

00:08:36   So new venue, new system, the whole works.

00:08:40   So I was wondering what you're expecting from the venue and what Apple could do to make

00:08:47   it accommodating to the journalists that we'll be visiting.

00:08:52   So Apple's history with these events, it's really changed.

00:08:55   Originally, these Apple events were very kind of Spartan for the most part.

00:09:03   And as the PR team has evolved, they've changed it around a lot to make it more friendly.

00:09:11   I think the unkind way to put it would be to say that when Steve and Katie Cotton were

00:09:19   charge and ruling over the world, they figure that the media would come and do what they

00:09:26   say and it wasn't a big deal. They would just have them wait and then come in. And then

00:09:30   they started adding amenities to make it more comfortable, like to be gracious hosts and

00:09:34   things, which again, it's inside baseball. It's well known that journalists will eat

00:09:41   whatever free food you provide for them. That's how it works. So it'll be interesting to see

00:09:48   how far this goes. Will there be... They're gonna be shaking out the bugs. So it'll be

00:09:54   interesting to also see how it changes the next time from this time, what they learn

00:09:57   from this. We have all these questions about like, you know, you're supposed to park at

00:10:00   the visitor center and I'm sure they'll have people there to sort of like wave us in and

00:10:04   all of that. And then you got to walk over to the event. Will there be, you know, are

00:10:08   we gonna wait outside? We're gonna wait inside. How big is the waiting area? I don't know.

00:10:14   I mean, in the end, it doesn't really matter. They're gonna have a big theater and they're

00:10:16   going to fill it with people. But I am kind of curious about how it's going to work. They

00:10:21   did very clearly specify in this invitation where we're supposed to go. There's a specific

00:10:25   street address, which is basically the visitor's center that they're built for Apple Park,

00:10:33   where people can come and buy stuff. And I don't know what else they're going to do with

00:10:37   the visitor's center. But that seems to be the parking lot that we're going to use. And

00:10:42   then presumably people will lead us, you know, or will point the way to get to the Steve

00:10:48   Jobs Theater. And that'll be most of us, you know, with a couple exceptions, it'll be our

00:10:52   first time on the Apple Park campus. So that's pretty exciting, even though it's Steve Jobs

00:10:58   Theater is sort of, you know, at the bottom corner of the campus. It's not, you know,

00:11:05   it's not the big ring itself.

00:11:07   You'll still see it though, right? Which will be a wonderful thing, you know.

00:11:10   You can't miss it. Yeah.

00:11:11   Yeah, you can't. Yeah, you can't miss it at all.

00:11:13   It's this, if you look at a map, it's just this enormous structure right next to this little theater.

00:11:18   One thing that I thought was really cool, The Verge had a post that they put up a couple of

00:11:26   days ago where they embed an Instagram kind of gallery from a site called Mac Museum,

00:11:34   a Mac magazine, sorry, and it's showing, I assume, some books, a construction worker

00:11:40   has leaked images or sent images of the current state of construction, presumably a week ago.

00:11:46   So you kind of get a flavor for what they're going for look wise, and it all looks like

00:11:50   the kind of birch or the light wood that Apple have been using in Apple stores. It doesn't look

00:11:56   like your conventional theater by any stretch of the imagination. So I'm really keen to see how

00:12:02   it's presented on the video. And what I also found funny, I realized this when we were

00:12:06   doing Connected, like, we're gonna have one of the most packed episodes next week talking

00:12:12   about this, but we have to still just devote some time to talking about the room you were

00:12:17   in, right? Because that's gonna be interesting.

00:12:19   And there are a lot of reports, like, uh, Bloomberg has a report talking about, like,

00:12:25   how they've got a, the demo space is built in and it, like, there's a sliding door that

00:12:29   that opens up and reveals the demo space.

00:12:32   - Wow, okay, wow.

00:12:34   - Because the most important thing to remember about this

00:12:37   is this is what this venue was built for.

00:12:39   Like this venue is purpose built for Apple media events

00:12:44   like the iPhone launch.

00:12:45   This is why they made it.

00:12:47   So they made it based on all of Apple's needs

00:12:50   in doing a product launch,

00:12:51   because while they will use it for corporate events,

00:12:55   company meetings and things like that,

00:12:58   The reason this thing exists is for Apple to do its events on its campus in a space

00:13:02   it controls and it's built it in order to do that.

00:13:07   The last thing you do is build this theater and then realize, oh, and it isn't suitable

00:13:11   for this need that we've got in every one of our events.

00:13:14   And one of those needs is the hands-on area, right, after an event.

00:13:17   So it sounds like they have built a hands-on area, which is unsurprising, but that it may

00:13:21   actually be a little more dramatic than that.

00:13:24   That there's a...

00:13:25   - That there's an open space that kind of like retracts according to Bloomberg to reveal

00:13:31   the the demonstration room that you can that you can then go in which is would not surprise

00:13:37   me at all right that makes that makes sense because that's why this thing exists is for

00:13:40   this stuff.

00:13:41   - I hope that they keep the cameras rolling if that happens just to see the room that's

00:13:45   right at the end because it might be kind of cool but this is the thing right we can

00:13:49   expect next week's episode to last seven hours or something I don't know how we're gonna

00:13:54   be doing it as soon as we can after the event as always so you could look out for that next

00:14:00   Tuesday. That was going to be our iPhone episode.

00:14:04   Yeah. And I'm not going to do it in the car. I think

00:14:07   we've decided that I'm going to use the car time to reflect and ponder and then I'll get

00:14:11   back here and we'll do a podcast. Yep. Which is the way it should be, I think.

00:14:17   Give everybody some time because as well in taking that break time I get to find out all

00:14:22   of the little details that come out after the events. So I'll be armed with as much

00:14:27   information as possible. I'm really excited about this event, Jason. I'm really, really

00:14:32   very excited about it.

00:14:33   JASON LEWKOWICZ Great.

00:14:34   PETER LUBBERS Are you?

00:14:35   JASON LEWKOWICZ Yeah. I mean, it's busy, right? So it's

00:14:40   tempered with, it's excitement tempered with the, just the feeling of how much, you know,

00:14:46   how much work there's going to be the next couple of weeks. It's a lot. There's a lot

00:14:49   to digest, a lot to figure out because in addition to the hardware presumably we're

00:14:53   going to get OS launches. It's just, you know, this is it. This is peak Apple for the year.

00:15:00   Is this this next couple of weeks.

00:15:02   All right, we should get into the draft. Before we do, let's take a break and thank our first

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00:16:29   I do, I was just sleeping on it earlier today.

00:16:32   And how was it? Was it upsetting to leave your Casper mattress this morning, Jason?

00:16:37   It's always upsetting to leave my Casper mattress. I try to remain on it as long as I can, which

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00:17:25   upgrade at checkout terms and conditions apply thank you so much to casper for their support

00:17:30   of this show.

00:17:34   Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the second annual iPhone keynote draft. Can you believe,

00:17:40   Jason, this is only the second time we've done the keynote draft? I looked meticulously

00:17:44   through our back catalogue and we have done many drafts, but this is actually just the

00:17:49   second iPhone draft.

00:17:50   Uh, yeah, you said the second keynote draft. That's not true. This is the, what, third

00:17:54   or fourth?

00:17:55   Yeah, it's the second iPhone keynote draft. It's like maybe the third or fourth keynote

00:18:00   draft.

00:18:01   Okay. All right. Yes, but no, we only started this madness last year.

00:18:05   Hey, I think you should refer to it as this wonderful tradition.

00:18:09   Okay. Second annual, though. You finally get to use that. That's good. I approve of second

00:18:14   annual.

00:18:15   Second annual iPhone keynote draft. So these are the rules. The rules have been established

00:18:20   over many, many drafts now. On this draft, we are going to do six rounds, which is 12

00:18:26   overall picks. Jason, did I finally get that right?

00:18:29   You did. Yes, okay. As you know, me and Jason have amassed a possible pick list that we

00:18:37   have between the two of us where we will be picking from, so no curveballs thrown in,

00:18:41   but Jason always finds a way to do that anyway. The winner of the previous draft gets the

00:18:46   first pick, and as the WWDC keynote champion, I get the first pick. For an item to count,

00:18:54   It must either be clearly announced on stage or presented on a slide during the presentation.

00:19:01   Yes, nothing sliding by in a press release released simultaneously or a change on Apple's

00:19:06   website that is not mentioned.

00:19:07   It must be in the video feed.

00:19:10   Or a pre-announce this week of stuff that they're clearing the agenda in order to not

00:19:15   talk about it doesn't count.

00:19:16   Unless that stuff is then also mentioned, right?

00:19:19   I think we've agreed on that in the past.

00:19:22   Yes.

00:19:23   Basically, the draft is scored by myself and Jason when we come to an agreement with our

00:19:27   score on the episode, but in case of a scoring stalemate, Stephen Hackett will adjudicate.

00:19:34   There will be no half points awarded, it is full points only.

00:19:38   There are no points awarded, so therefore no picks for any ridiculously obvious items.

00:19:43   Like if we were to say, "A new iPhone" doesn't count.

00:19:47   That does not count.

00:19:48   Gotta be a little bit more specific than that.

00:19:51   Now there can be other products, like for example there is a pick in here which is new

00:19:56   Apple Watch.

00:19:57   Now that is not as obvious as new iPhone, right?

00:19:59   I think we can all agree on that.

00:20:01   The points will be awarded on the episode next week and they are final.

00:20:06   There is no back-sees on this one.

00:20:09   No follow-up with point changes.

00:20:12   That's not how the draft works, Jason Snell.

00:20:14   Not at all.

00:20:16   Today we are going to do something a little bit different to previous drafts, where at

00:20:20   the very end because I liked this from the hardware draft, what do I bring out

00:20:24   you're dead segment where the things that we think could happen but didn't

00:20:28   make it into our draft we also can get to talk about them but we will not be

00:20:31   awarded points for any of those. Right. So pick number one I get to go first and

00:20:37   this is the closest to obvious but I think not completely a done deal my

00:20:44   first pick is that there will be three iPhones announced during the keynote

00:20:50   Now, I will start with a couple of things that could make this risky, right?

00:20:56   There could be just two, or there could be four.

00:20:59   The iPhone SE could appear at this event.

00:21:02   We don't know if the iPhone SE does pop up, then on the stage, then I do not get this.

00:21:07   These are the three iPhones, and obviously what we're expecting here is a revision to

00:21:12   the current iPhones, plus a more fancy iPhone.

00:21:16   Did you agree with that?

00:21:17   I think that's where we're both coming from, predictions.

00:21:19   That's exactly right. That's the idea, is that there will be stepped up versions of

00:21:23   the iPhone 7 and 7 Plus and the OLED high-end fancy phone.

00:21:31   Now, a couple of things on this, just while we're talking about it. From a naming perspective,

00:21:37   we enjoy talking about product naming, what do you think the two iPhones will be called?

00:21:42   Do you think there will be the 7S or do you think they're going to go to 8?

00:21:47   I've seen reports of both, but that's one of those things

00:21:50   that's, you know, it's held close to Apple's heart.

00:21:52   You know, that's something that is hard to get out of them

00:21:54   because it's in Phil Schiller's group, right?

00:21:56   They're making decisions about that

00:21:58   and have made decisions about that.

00:22:00   I don't know.

00:22:01   I could go either way.

00:22:04   Like logically, they are the 7S and 7S Plus,

00:22:09   but I could see with this third phone hanging over

00:22:13   the product line that they might prefer to refer them all

00:22:16   is like iPhone 8 or something like that.

00:22:17   iPhone 8, iPhone 8 Plus, and iPhone 8 Pro

00:22:22   or iPhone Pro or iPhone edition

00:22:24   or whatever we wanna call it

00:22:26   that they might wanna have them all.

00:22:28   It's an easy way to make the other models seem newer

00:22:32   because it's eight instead of seven.

00:22:38   Also, can I just say, once you add plus to the line,

00:22:43   The S thing gets really complicated, right?

00:22:47   We already have the 6S Plus and the 6S,

00:22:49   but the 7S Plus, again, it's not a great name.

00:22:54   It's this, there's a lot of modifiers there.

00:22:57   8 Plus makes more sense.

00:22:59   So that might, if I had to pick,

00:23:02   I'd say that they're just gonna go ahead

00:23:03   and call them iPhone 8.

00:23:05   But that would be a change

00:23:07   from all the S models that we've had.

00:23:10   The extra syllable in 7S+ to 6S+ really does make it more clunky to say.

00:23:16   I agree.

00:23:17   It makes it more clear.

00:23:18   It's clunkier to say and then you've got that new phone up top.

00:23:22   So maybe you just move them all along and potentially even call them all iPhone 8 something.

00:23:28   Yeah.

00:23:29   So you know I hadn't considered, because I've heard people say about calling them

00:23:33   the iPhone 8, but I hadn't considered that the fancy OLED phone would be included in

00:23:39   in that naming structure, that's interesting to me.

00:23:41   That's really interesting because then

00:23:44   they're not calling it,

00:23:45   it's not gonna be called the 7 Pro.

00:23:47   Like that doesn't make sense, right?

00:23:49   Or the 7S edition, like that's weird, right?

00:23:53   So I'd always just assumed that that iPhone

00:23:55   would just get called like iPhone plus modifier name

00:23:58   without any number.

00:24:01   But if they wanna put a number in there,

00:24:03   which they may want to depending on what they think

00:24:06   the roadmap's gonna be like,

00:24:07   Like if they can't make two of these OLED phones next year,

00:24:11   then they may just call it like the iPhone 9,

00:24:15   iPhone 9 Pro, iPhone 9 Plus.

00:24:18   Do you know what I mean?

00:24:19   So that could be a big thing around it.

00:24:21   'Cause I had originally thought

00:24:23   that they would maybe keep them on the,

00:24:25   the other two on the 7 range

00:24:26   so they could differentiate them even further

00:24:29   from whatever the other phone's gonna be called,

00:24:32   but they might not wanna do that

00:24:33   'cause they still have to sell the other ones.

00:24:35   This is this is a real I'm really, really interested to see how they name these

00:24:40   products. I mean, I always have an interest in it because I think it's kind of

00:24:43   fascinating, the product marketing anyway.

00:24:45   But this one is really interesting because they're doing something new and it will

00:24:49   set a precedent.

00:24:51   I mean, I think that there is still a possibility that they just drop all the

00:24:54   numbers and it's just iPhone, iPhone Plus, iPhone edition, and then they just deal

00:24:59   with it, you know, like, yeah.

00:25:01   And then numbers either come back or don't, but they just get rid of those numbers.

00:25:05   All of that is draftable too, I'll just point out all name predictions.

00:25:09   Yep, all of that's still up for drafting.

00:25:13   So I guess we should go straight into what is your first pick.

00:25:16   Alright, I decided to go with the idea, much rumored, but I'm going to put it out there,

00:25:22   that the new iPhone comes with a biometric feature that allows it to unlock based on seeing you,

00:25:31   your smiling face or your frowning face or your

00:25:35   expressionless face doesn't matter that

00:25:38   it's real and that on at least one

00:25:42   of these models the high-end model there will be

00:25:45   face unlock so that instead of having to touch your finger to a touch ID sensor

00:25:49   somewhere

00:25:50   you can just be present and your iPhone will

00:25:54   unlock. It's a strong pick. It's a very strong pick.

00:25:57   I mean it is heavily rumored

00:26:01   just as the existence of three iPhones is, but I'm gonna put my

00:26:05   my flag in that. I think that that is a

00:26:08   strong rumor, it makes sense to me, and it also makes sense philosophically that

00:26:12   Apple would go that way.

00:26:13   That in the end, in the ultimate phone, in the perfect phone,

00:26:19   you shouldn't have to fiddle with a button or a sensor.

00:26:22   You should just be able to pick up your phone and use it. And the way you get

00:26:25   there is by having something like this. And I can see how that has driven Apple

00:26:29   to this point where

00:26:30   They want it to be that the act of picking up your phone or looking at your phone is enough to unlock the phone.

00:26:38   You don't need to do something else fiddly with it, whether it's putting in a passcode or resting your finger on a particular sensor.

00:26:47   Just, it knows it's you and you can use it and somebody else tries that, it knows it's not them and they can't.

00:26:53   I think that there's some real elegance and simplicity in there that sounds very Apple and face unlock is how you get there.

00:26:59   get there. So I hope they did it.

00:27:01   If you want people to secure their phones, like if that is something that Apple

00:27:06   wants people to do, which they will for many reasons philosophically and also

00:27:11   business wise, because Apple Pay, not ever having to do anything is fantastic.

00:27:18   Like all you do is look at your phone, which you will do every time you want to

00:27:23   use your phone. That is what unlocks it.

00:27:25   Like that's that's it.

00:27:27   Right. Like that's the dream.

00:27:28   I mean, it would be amazing if that's what they're able to pull off, even in like a revision

00:27:33   or two, like it's perfect.

00:27:34   I don't expect it to be that flawless.

00:27:38   I do expect it to work really great, better than any biometric stuff we've used before

00:27:43   like this, like where you use eye scanning or anything like that.

00:27:46   I expect it to be good because otherwise, why else would they be shipping it?

00:27:49   I mean, that's that's, you know, you and Merlin were talking about this and you know, this

00:27:53   is this is part of like my my feeling of trying to be optimistic about what Apple is

00:27:58   doing this year, that I believe that if they're shipping this, if they're taking away Touch

00:28:03   ID and putting in a biometric scanner, like some kind of face scanner, some kind of eye

00:28:07   scanner, whatever it is, I expect it to be better than anything else I've used before.

00:28:13   IE, it works great.

00:28:15   They can't ship it. They can't ship it if it doesn't work. Like, you can't ship an iPhone

00:28:20   without a biometric sensor. You can't do it.

00:28:23   They can ship it if it's slightly slower or slightly clunkier than Touch ID. That's fine.

00:28:29   And I don't, and I'd be fine with that because I would like the coolness factor of the face

00:28:34   unlock. But yeah, they have to ship it and it be accurate. They have to because the payment

00:28:39   stuff is tied to it.

00:28:40   There has to be at least a Touch ID level of quality, I think. But if you think about

00:28:44   Touch ID, especially first gen Touch ID, as we said last week, Touch ID is not perfect.

00:28:50   I have failures to read my thumbprint on Touch ID all the time because I'm washing the dishes

00:28:55   or whatever and it's a little frustrating but it works most of the time and I don't

00:29:00   think we're asking for this feature to be perfect.

00:29:02   It just needs to be in the ballpark of Touch ID quality.

00:29:05   And if you think, until very recently, both me and you were using first-gen Touch ID every

00:29:10   single day on our iPad Pros and I never really felt like, "Oh, this is so slow."

00:29:16   It didn't really register for me too much.

00:29:18   like oh it just unlocks. Okay you know Touch ID 2 is so much quicker but Touch ID 1 wasn't

00:29:24   like laboriously slow. So yeah I would like to see the face unlock stuff. I think this

00:29:30   is a this has a very strong chance because there is not just rumors but the elements

00:29:35   of hard evidence that such a feature exists in some point at some stage right like there

00:29:41   is some kind of face something in the in the firmware that was in the home pod so there

00:29:47   There is good evidence there.

00:29:48   All right, pick number two.

00:29:51   I am gonna go back to the iPhone again,

00:29:55   and I'm gonna say that the OLED iPhone,

00:29:57   the top of the line iPhone starts at $1,000 or higher.

00:30:02   So I-- - Wow.

00:30:06   - Yeah, I know, this is where I think it's going.

00:30:08   I think it's gonna be $1,000 or higher,

00:30:10   and I could be potentially setting myself up for a problem

00:30:13   because it could be $999. - If it's $999,

00:30:14   you don't get this.

00:30:15   I don't get it, but I think that this is where this phone is gonna start.

00:30:22   As I'm saying this, I think I should have said 900, but it's too late now because I've

00:30:27   said it.

00:30:29   I think this is gonna be a really premium priced phone.

00:30:32   So let's just ignore my pick for a second.

00:30:34   Let's say it's 900, right?

00:30:35   Whatever it is, I think it's in that ballpark.

00:30:37   It's more than 900.

00:30:39   I think it's at least 999, so yeah.

00:30:42   probably right and I will be very upset when that is the definite price. My gosh, why didn't

00:30:46   I think of that? Anyway, my point is that the phone that people will end up buying is

00:30:53   going to be $1000, right? Or more. Whatever people end up getting will probably end up

00:30:58   being over $1000 and I think it's because this is what this product is going to cost

00:31:04   to make or this is what they have to price it at to stop it from selling too many of

00:31:08   them. Whatever the reason that ends up being.

00:31:11   The Galaxy Note is basically $1000. It's $9 something, $940, $9 something like that.

00:31:18   And I think that it's fine to have phones that exist in this point of the market. This

00:31:22   is consumer choice. And if you want to get the best of the best, this is what it costs

00:31:28   you. I think the essential phone is around this level of money too. And these are incredibly

00:31:34   expensive but for a lot of people, if you don't want to, you don't have to pay, you

00:31:39   you don't have to walk into an Apple store

00:31:40   and give them $1,000 cash, right?

00:31:43   There are many ways to still get phones

00:31:45   and you pay every month for them.

00:31:47   That is still a thing.

00:31:48   In the US, in the UK, it's still a thing.

00:31:51   Even though things are kind of split up now

00:31:53   and you pay part for the phone, part for the contract,

00:31:56   you can still do that.

00:31:57   So it's not like with the iPad Pros

00:32:00   where if you want one of those things,

00:32:02   you're taking $1,000 and putting it on a table

00:32:04   and saying to Apple, debit me or here's all my cash.

00:32:08   So I think that there is still room for the market

00:32:11   for this stuff and I think that Apple wants a piece of that.

00:32:14   And they can't start charging $1,000 for the current iPhone,

00:32:19   but they can for the new one.

00:32:20   - Yeah, yeah, I think that this all makes sense.

00:32:24   Apple is not a company that is hesitant to price things high.

00:32:29   Like that's part of their story,

00:32:31   is they want you to give them money.

00:32:33   That's why they make money.

00:32:34   That's why they make money on their products

00:32:35   that they focus on a market that is spending more money and they have high-end products

00:32:42   where they are reaping profits, great profits from them and they have built by all accounts

00:32:48   a high-end expensive phone. They've spared no expense as they say and so it's not unreasonable

00:32:56   to think this. I think there's questions about some of the details, what comes in the box,

00:33:00   the opening storage level? Are they going to use $999 or $1000 as a starting point but

00:33:07   have meager storage, you know, have $64 on there and then that's an open draft pick about

00:33:12   how much storage if somebody wants to take it. It's a question, are they, is it going

00:33:18   to be a really nice product at $1000 or is it going to be in their usual method, you

00:33:22   really want the one that is $1,100. But that's Apple. And that is the gamble here, is that

00:33:31   you're going to have people who don't want the lower-end models, they really do want

00:33:34   the high-end model, and are turned off by the price.

00:33:36   - Yep, and go elsewhere. That's the risk.

00:33:39   - But as we talked about, you know, this is, will the market bear that kind of a price?

00:33:45   I guess they'll find out, but I have a hard time believing that a hot, new, super high-tech

00:33:49   iPhone that costs $1,000 is not going to sell well. In fact, my guess would be, and this

00:33:55   is not a prediction because it's not keynote based, or it's a prediction but it's not a

00:33:58   draft pick, my guess would be that no matter how they price this thing, they're not going

00:34:03   to be able to make them fast enough. That it's going to be a hard-to-get item throughout

00:34:08   the rest of the year, even with the high price.

00:34:12   I'm very concerned about either A) whether I'm going to be able to get one in time, or

00:34:17   be how much money I have to spend to do that. Do you know what I mean? Right? Like, am I

00:34:22   going to have to spend $1500 to get the phone because the ones at the entry price are all

00:34:29   gone? Right? And so we'll see what that ends up being like. Jason, what is your second

00:34:36   pick? My second pick is going to be about ARKit. I think Apple had huge press at WWDC

00:34:47   for ARKit. Apple has spent the summer crowing about how Apple's platform, iOS, will be the

00:34:54   premier augmented reality platform as soon as iOS 11 ships. They have taken great delight

00:35:00   in all the demos of apps that have been showing you how to do a virtual yardstick or whatever

00:35:06   using augmented reality on existing iPhones. You've got new iPhone hardware that's presumably

00:35:11   even better tuned for ARKit. You've got iOS 11 shipping and you've got an

00:35:16   opportunity to find some amazing vendor, amazing software company that is working

00:35:23   on an amazing app that takes advantage of ARKit. And so even though this isn't

00:35:27   the developer conference, it is going into the holiday season which is why it

00:35:31   will probably be a game, but I'm going to predict there will be an augmented

00:35:36   reality demo on stage not just a video that would be a different pick but on

00:35:42   stage somebody will demonstrate augmented reality because I just think

00:35:48   Apple wants to keep beating this drum it's a they perceive it as an advantage

00:35:52   Google came out with an announcement about about ARCore which is very much

00:35:58   mean they've been working on it for a long time too but obviously at some

00:36:01   point somebody at Google was like we need to be part of this conversation

00:36:04   Apple is making so much hay with their AR kit, and we've got this thing. So they announced

00:36:11   it and it'll be on some Android devices, but again, they want to be in the game. This is

00:36:16   an advantage that Apple has. Google knows it. Google's trying to blunt it. Apple will

00:36:21   put its foot on the gas. Plus, they're crowd pleasers. Those AR demos that we've seen videos

00:36:27   of are kind of amazing. So I think there will be, you know, we're gonna get more AR because

00:36:33   Apple really wants to make that one of the buzz worthy things about the new software

00:36:38   and the new hardware.

00:36:39   This was my next pick. I agree with 100% of everything you said. All we have seen that

00:36:45   ARKit can do from Apple was a tech demo that they put together and was it something from

00:36:50   Epic Games? Like just kind of like a mostly non interactive demo of like a...

00:36:56   There was the games on the table.

00:36:57   Yeah, the person jumped off the table.

00:37:00   Yeah.

00:37:01   That's all it's been and since then there have been so many amazing things and I've

00:37:04   got a couple of betas that I've been trying out that use ARKit and it's amazing.

00:37:10   And you know I think Apple should really just have someone on stage to measure some stuff.

00:37:14   Because it's like a killer feature of this.

00:37:18   And I expect it will be IKEA, right?

00:37:20   Like IKEA will be there I reckon to show off their stuff because IKEA is perfect for this

00:37:26   And I know that there's been some stuff in the last couple of weeks where Apple have been

00:37:31   doing some releases with these companies to show off some of the AR stuff that they've been doing,

00:37:37   which may be some demos that got cut, right? Like there may be something there.

00:37:44   But yeah, there looks like there's going to be some fantastic things. And this is one of the

00:37:50   things that I'm most excited about for iOS 11, because these things don't exist yet. And I expect

00:37:55   back

00:38:14   And I think Apple is very aware of what they have done here. Yeah

00:38:19   All right, so that's the first two picks so we have four more picks to go

00:38:25   Which seems like a perfect time to take a break and thank our sponsor one of our sponsors for this week's and that is

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00:40:47   support of Upgrade and Relay FM. Alright pick number three, I'm going to go with here, now

00:40:56   this is a pick that's in the list and it's close to a pick that we already went with

00:41:02   and I'm going to say that there will be no touch ID on the high end iPhone.

00:41:08   So there is some contention, I think even still, about whether some kind of touch ID

00:41:13   sensor will remain, right? That there will maybe be some kind of fallback, maybe it's

00:41:17   in what is considered to be a larger home button, sorry a lock button that's going to

00:41:23   be on the side of the phone, maybe there will still be something that can read through the

00:41:27   the glass. There are many different theories about this. I don't think that Touch ID is

00:41:32   going to exist if the face unlock system exists. I think that they will go one or the other

00:41:37   because it won't be a great demo or at least an introduction for the face unlocking system

00:41:44   if they're like, "Oh, by the way, there's Touch ID." Because it makes you immediately

00:41:48   think that the face unlock won't work.

00:41:50   Yeah, you can bail out.

00:41:51   It's like, "Oh, you don't have to do this if you don't want to. There's Touch ID." No,

00:41:55   The other option will be put in a passcode, which nobody wants to do.

00:41:59   So I do not believe that there will be touch ID on the high-end iPhone.

00:42:03   I think that this is a swan song for the touch ID on the iPhone, as over time now, the key

00:42:11   will be for Apple to find ways to remove it from the entire line.

00:42:15   So I think that's a thing.

00:42:16   I think that that is a real thing.

00:42:18   Yeah, I think so.

00:42:20   I wrote a piece that I think is gonna go up on Macworld this week that is about the obvious

00:42:27   in hindsight aspect of some of Apple's moves where later moves make you realize that previous

00:42:35   moves they made were part of a pattern that you didn't see, or maybe you did see, that

00:42:41   it's like, "Oh, those were connected."

00:42:42   And so one of the rumors that Mark Gurman wrote about at Bloomberg last week is this

00:42:47   idea that the buttonless new iPhone, one of the ways that you get around to multitasking

00:42:55   or a home screen is through swiping up from a bar at the bottom of the screen.

00:43:00   And what he describes is basically iOS 11 multitasking on the iPad.

00:43:04   And it's one of those moments where you're like, "Oh!"

00:43:07   Like it's a bigger move that they're making.

00:43:09   And I think it's true.

00:43:10   I think that when we see this product, we're seeing the future of iOS hardware.

00:43:16   not as much on the iPad as the iPhone, but even there I feel like this is where Apple's

00:43:20   going. Apple wants everything to be face unlock, I think. I think that's where they want to

00:43:23   go, and I think Apple wants to get rid of the home button and replace it with gestures.

00:43:28   I really think that that's where they are headed and that this is going to be fascinating

00:43:32   because it's going to be the first product out with some of these things that really

00:43:37   change fundamental interactions of iOS. So yeah, I feel like they could put Touch ID

00:43:42   on the back. I have a Nexus 5X that has such ID on the, you know, a fingerprint scanner

00:43:47   on the back. It's fine, but you're right. It does send the message of like, you can

00:43:51   bail out of our face ID thing and just use your fingerprint like you usually do. And

00:43:55   I just, I can't see them doing, having these two different ways of doing it unless, unless

00:44:01   it's like, Oh, but Apple pay requires that you have a fingerprint or something. But everything

00:44:05   I've read says that the banks are big are gearing up to support other forms of biometric

00:44:10   ID, not just a fingerprint.

00:44:12   - Yeah, there are banks that already support

00:44:14   like vocal authentication and stuff like that.

00:44:18   - Yeah, so if Apple wanted to do this,

00:44:19   they'd just get, 'cause people have said that

00:44:22   as an example of why there must be touch ID on it.

00:44:24   And it's like, it could be a reason why they keep touch ID

00:44:26   on it, but it's just as likely that Apple went

00:44:28   to all of their Apple Pay partners and said,

00:44:30   here's a new form of biometrics we want you to endorse.

00:44:34   And my guess is they were probably all like, all right,

00:44:37   you know, Apple Pay is really great for them, let's do it.

00:44:40   And so, yeah, I would be surprised if it was there.

00:44:43   I think that's a pretty good pick.

00:44:44   I think there's a chance, there's a little bit of a risk

00:44:46   because it would be something like Apple Pay

00:44:48   or something that maybe, right,

00:44:51   not technological constraint,

00:44:54   but like a partner or contract constraint

00:44:56   that makes them like hedge.

00:44:58   But Apple doesn't sound like a company that hedges, right?

00:45:02   They don't do that.

00:45:03   - I would expect, I don't know this,

00:45:04   I could just be completely wrong

00:45:06   'cause I'm kind of just speaking.

00:45:08   I would expect that even something like Touch ID isn't necessarily endorsed by Apple Pay

00:45:15   providers but that there is some kind of agreed upon security standard that Touch ID meets

00:45:21   and that this face unlock will meet.

00:45:23   So they don't need to go to Visa and MasterCard and all the banks and say, "Hey, endorse this

00:45:28   new thing."

00:45:29   But Apple just need to meet the security standards required.

00:45:34   That's how I would imagine it to be.

00:45:36   a biometric clause about like how you do authentication and biometric things and they probably add

00:45:43   to it and amend it and it probably has some, it's probably broader than just you must have

00:45:48   a fingerprint sensor, right? Because there are lots of different ways to validate biometrically.

00:45:52   This level of encryption, this must do this, must do this, must do this, you know, like

00:45:56   and have this kind of fail-safe and this kind of check and etc, etc, etc. That's how I

00:46:01   imagine this stuff works. I mean, heck, you know, these contactless payments, a lot of

00:46:06   what Apple Pay is doing, most of the time they're performed without any biometrics

00:46:12   of any kind. It's just tapping a plastic card, which is in somebody's wallet. So I

00:46:17   can't imagine that this is the most stringent of things. And I know Apple Pay can go higher

00:46:22   than that, but I'm just trying to make a point of like, if I want to spend £15 in

00:46:28   a store, I can just put my piece of plastic against it. That's all it is. So, you know,

00:46:35   I assume that Apple was able to meet whatever security practices are required.

00:46:40   Otherwise, they again, I don't think that they would move to the face unlock thing.

00:46:43   Apple pays so important to them now.

00:46:46   Yeah. That I really imagine that any type of biometric,

00:46:50   whatever it is, has to be able to support it.

00:46:52   And one last thing for the face unlocking thing.

00:46:55   I was talking to Marco Arment about this last week.

00:46:59   There is a higher like, or maybe Steven Hackett, someone.

00:47:03   I've seen lots of people and they're all merging into one now.

00:47:07   If you want to bring biometrics to the Mac, it's probably easier to do it through a camera

00:47:12   than to try and put some kind of Touch ID on a keyboard.

00:47:15   Oh yeah, yeah, I have that same thought that it would be nice to add a Touch ID sensor

00:47:20   like they did the MacBook Pro, but if Apple's already passed Touch ID, it also does make

00:47:25   sense for things like Macs, iMacs and Mac laptops and all of that.

00:47:32   I mean, the laptop you can integrate a Touch ID sensor if you want to, but it's a much

00:47:36   more--every Mac, basically, other than the Mac Pro, has a camera, and the Mac Pro will

00:47:40   come--the new one will come with an Apple monitor that presumably could also have that

00:47:45   sensor built into it, and isn't that a better way to do it?

00:47:47   And isn't it curious that Apple decided to get back into the standalone monitor game

00:47:52   again?

00:47:54   Makes even more sense if they put a camera in it for face unlocking.

00:47:57   Yeah.

00:47:58   Jason, your third pick.

00:47:59   Alright, with my third pick, I'm gonna go again, something that's highly rumored, doesn't

00:48:03   necessarily mean it's gonna come out, especially since Apple sometimes kicks things out of

00:48:06   September and makes October announcements, but it's way overdue, and so I think it's

00:48:11   finally going to happen, and it makes a lot of sense in terms of where the entertainment

00:48:15   industry is right now, which is a new version of the Apple TV that supports both 4K, which

00:48:21   is, of course, 2160 lines of resolution. It's twice the horizontal resolution, four times

00:48:28   the pixels of a 1080 picture, the standard sort of like high definition picture we think

00:48:34   of today, and high dynamic range HDR, which allows on 4K HDR TVs blacker blacks and brighter

00:48:42   whites, and it's just a broader dynamic range of a picture. It's more, it's a higher picture

00:48:48   quality, and it's hard to describe, but I think it's going to impress people. I think

00:48:54   HDR is actually more noticeable than going from 1080 to 4K because dynamic range is a

00:49:02   thing that's hard to describe, but then you're like, "Oh, it looks so much better!" It's

00:49:05   like, "Yes, it does. It looks much better." So, Apple's competitors have had 4K and some

00:49:12   HDR support for a while now, especially Amazon and Roku. Apple has been behind here. We were

00:49:18   kind of all hoping for a 4K Apple TV, I think, last year, and it didn't happen. I think the

00:49:21   time is right, it's beyond right, it's got to happen, and I think it's going to come

00:49:25   with partnerships. Not only does Netflix have 4K content that will presumably be playable

00:49:30   on this Apple TV, but Amazon does, and Amazon does have an app coming out for the Apple

00:49:35   TV. It makes me actually wonder if this is one of the reasons it got delayed. They just

00:49:40   want to release it with their 4K content on Amazon Prime Video as well, and I think there's

00:49:46   an iTunes portion of this announcement too, which is Apple wants to start renting and

00:49:50   selling people movies in 4k and HDR on iTunes so that you can attach this

00:49:56   Apple TV to your 4k HDR TV and get one of those new to home

00:50:02   video rentals for six bucks or seven bucks or whatever it is and have that be

00:50:07   beautiful. And then of course 4k and HDR also is using HEVC, the new codec that's

00:50:12   also on iOS 11 in order to save bandwidth. They don't, like Netflix and

00:50:17   Amazon, they don't stream, I know Netflix doesn't, I think Amazon doesn't either,

00:50:20   they're not streaming 4K using H.264 video, they're using the new codec because

00:50:25   4K is a lot more information to pass along and so it's only natural, right?

00:50:31   This seems to all be of a, again, it's one story that Apple's going to,

00:50:36   but we haven't seen all the pieces yet. Apple also mentioned that you can do

00:50:40   something HDR-like with the iPad displays and there's also, you know,

00:50:46   the OLED display on this rumored high-end iPhone.

00:50:50   So I think Apple may have a broader story

00:50:52   about like the quality of movies on other devices

00:50:56   also being enhanced by these features,

00:50:59   not just on your 4K HDR television with the new Apple TV.

00:51:04   So I think all the pieces are there, I think it's time.

00:51:06   - I would expect maybe something to do with the wide collar

00:51:09   on the iOS devices might help with the HDR, right?

00:51:12   And yet of course, the OLED phone is gonna make it look

00:51:15   even even better when the blacks are true black right because of the OLED.

00:51:19   So yeah, I think that this one makes perfect sense

00:51:22   and it's something I actually do want.

00:51:24   This would be the only reason that I could foresee wanting to upgrade an Apple TV

00:51:29   because I have a 4K HDR television, which was bought with all this stuff in mind

00:51:35   because this is where games consoles are going.

00:51:37   It's where TV content is going.

00:51:38   So that was why I bought the TV that I bought.

00:51:41   I have a Panasonic 4K HDR TV.

00:51:44   The product names are just too hard.

00:51:45   Just search for that and you'll find the series that I have if you're looking for

00:51:48   it. Um, and it's great. And we're kind of,

00:51:52   I think we're in a good viewing range for this stuff because I really do notice

00:51:55   the difference. Um, but the HDR is wonderful.

00:51:59   Just really like I scream when I see how good the picture looks.

00:52:03   There was like a,

00:52:04   a BBC demo where they used some nature footage and it was just unreal,

00:52:09   absolutely unreal. So I'm excited for more,

00:52:13   more of this stuff, especially because I have a good internet connection now so I can watch

00:52:17   it as well so that all works out for me.

00:52:21   Pick four, for some of the same reasons I'm going to go with dual cameras on all iPhones.

00:52:29   Now the reason I say this is looking at iOS 11, iOS 11 has a really robust depth API.

00:52:38   Like it is if you are not aware of this

00:52:41   So this is the depth API is the portrait mode stuff and they are adding a lot of really interesting things to this

00:52:48   So like for example

00:52:50   Somebody with the new who maybe builds an app with the depth API you could use

00:52:54   Portrait mode to change the color of a background

00:52:58   So I could take a picture of Jason and make it black and white behind him

00:53:04   Or I could use it as some kind of pseudo green screen type thing.

00:53:09   And with a depth API, I could put a background in.

00:53:12   And all of this stuff can be done to already taken portrait mode photos.

00:53:17   There is a lot of really interesting stuff that can be done.

00:53:20   The layers can all be pulled apart and edited individually.

00:53:24   They're really really enhancing this and making it available to developers.

00:53:28   I think that they won't want to keep that for just the big phone and then this new edition,

00:53:35   pro, whatever we're going to call it phone.

00:53:38   And also because that phone is going to be smaller than the plus, I think it makes it

00:53:42   harder to argue why the regular phone shouldn't get it.

00:53:46   Plus the regular phone needs some new features.

00:53:49   One of those could be dual cameras.

00:53:52   I will as well say like I am a I love my my plus phone and the dual camera is fantastic

00:53:58   and I use it all the time and I love being able to do that two time zoom. Sometimes I

00:54:04   test to make sure I'm using the two time zoom because you can do that because something

00:54:07   you may not know this the second camera will only work in good lighting conditions. So

00:54:13   the way I do this if I'm if I'm unsure I just put my finger over the second lens and press

00:54:17   the button to change and if it doesn't go black then I just go back to the one times

00:54:21   and just take regular pictures and can crop them later if I want to. But when it, you

00:54:26   know, when it works, which most of the time when I want it, it does work. I love the I

00:54:30   love what I get. I love the photos that I get from it because I can zoom in way more

00:54:34   on stuff. So yeah, I love that camera. I don't use portrait mode a ton, but I would use it

00:54:40   way more with all of these cool apps features that I could maybe get a hold of. So that's

00:54:44   why I think there's going to be dual cameras on all iPhones.

00:54:48   I think it's a great pick.

00:54:51   I have floated this idea, and I think there's some concern

00:54:56   that what Apple's not going to do

00:54:59   is do enough of a redesign work on the iPhone 7

00:55:04   to add the second camera to it.

00:55:06   But I feel the same way you do, which is they should,

00:55:11   unless their eye is completely off the ball,

00:55:13   it would actually be a notable upgrade for the iPhone 7.

00:55:18   iPhone 7 for that size and model whatever they call it 7s or 8 or

00:55:23   whatever to get that second camera that currently is only on the plus. I think

00:55:28   there may be there always camera upgrades and I think our eyes are off

00:55:32   the ball a little bit with this new high-end iPhone where we aren't really

00:55:35   talking about more of the details of the cameras because there are always camera

00:55:40   upgrades and I imagine there will be more but adding that feature to the plus

00:55:44   last time, it would be really great if they could have figured out a way to get the dual

00:55:49   camera into the whole line now and make it, you know, extol the virtues of having the

00:55:55   two cameras set up even more. So I'm hopeful, I hope you're right on that, despite our fiercely

00:56:02   competitive draft that we're doing. I hope you're right, because I think that that phone

00:56:06   that I have, the iPhone 7, that's the thing that makes me sad about it, is I like the

00:56:10   size I wouldn't use the 7 plus but but that camera on the 7 plus hmm you know

00:56:17   it's really nice really nice it would be nice that that was on the 7 too.

00:56:22   Every year Apple likes to like excel the virtues of the new camera thing that

00:56:27   they've added and I think with the last one they kind of coupled it with with a

00:56:32   lot of the cut wide color stuff right as being one of the things that you'd

00:56:35   really get when they weren't talking about the second camera, right? So I think that

00:56:45   this is the big thing. This is the big thing that's happening in smartphone cameras right

00:56:49   now is to have a second one for whatever purpose you use it for. I think this would be the

00:56:53   big win for them and I expect it's the one that they are going to push for with the whole

00:56:58   line.

00:56:59   And I'm going to give you, if there is magically an iPhone SE update, I'm going to give it

00:57:05   to you that, if it's not on that one.

00:57:07   I appreciate that a lot actually, because that would be really unfair.

00:57:11   That would be what a technicality to lose on.

00:57:14   I know.

00:57:15   Yeah, that would be really unfair.

00:57:16   Thank you for that one, Jason.

00:57:17   All right, what's your pick?

00:57:20   I'm going to go, I'm surprised it's still here and that we haven't gone to it.

00:57:23   And I'm going to make a very particular Apple Watch.

00:57:25   I'm not just going to say there's a new Apple Watch, because that's kind of boring.

00:57:28   I'm gonna say there's a new Apple Watch with cellular connectivity.

00:57:32   That's what I'm gonna go with.

00:57:33   I think this is something that has to come to the Apple Watch.

00:57:36   We started to get rumors that it's gonna happen soon, and this is going to be the third anniversary

00:57:41   of the announcement of the Apple Watch.

00:57:43   And with GPS added last time in the Series 2, that leaves this one clear feature missing,

00:57:52   which is cellular.

00:57:53   are Android smartwatches that have cellular connectivity and some people

00:57:59   poo-poo it but I think we've talked about it on this show before. The fact is

00:58:02   once your watch can get your text and get data updates and get phone calls if

00:58:08   you need it then there are lots of situations where you might not actually

00:58:12   need to bring your phone with you. If all you're concerned about is getting a text

00:58:16   or getting a phone call you can do that without your phone around and there are

00:58:21   circumstances, whether it's active circumstances, you're going for a run or

00:58:25   a bike ride or something like that, or even, the example I gave I think last

00:58:28   week was when I'm walking my dog over to the field that's over at the school by

00:58:33   my house in the evening. Like, I bring my phone with me, why do I do that really in

00:58:38   case somebody needs to get in touch with me?

00:58:40   It's basically there for emergency purposes. I'm not going to be sitting

00:58:43   there checking Twitter while I'm talking to people and watching my dog run around.

00:58:47   that's not going to happen. And this would free me from having to bring my phone with

00:58:52   me because I would still have access to all the data stuff. It gets the Apple Watch platform

00:58:57   which still needs to grow, but it would allow it to become a little more independent as

00:59:03   well and count on having a connection. And so I feel like this is a necessary place for

00:59:08   the Apple Watch to go and I hope it goes there this month.

00:59:12   Yeah, I buy this. I think this is happening. I'm pretty sure it's happening next week.

00:59:23   It could not be, right? But it feels like this is Apple Watch season. Why would you

00:59:26   not talk about the Apple Watch now? This is when the big Apple Watch announcements have

00:59:32   happened is this time of year. Now, they skipped a year, right? They went from the initial

00:59:38   announcement and then two years later they announced the series too. So there's a question

00:59:42   about like, would they do it? Is it too soon? But once the rumors started up, and this goes

00:59:48   back to that Ask Upgrade question we had at the beginning of the summer, right? The moment

00:59:51   that we said, "Eh, there's probably not a new Apple Watch," that there were rumors that

00:59:54   there would be. But I'm gonna pick it. I feel like Apple wants to be aggressive here and

01:00:00   keep its lead. And I think with the Apple Watch, the way that they've done it, where

01:00:05   they keep another model around that's cheaper, I think that that's a good approach for them

01:00:09   because that means that they can have this be a little more pricey and still have a more

01:00:13   accessible watch for people who just want to get something for fitness tracking and

01:00:17   you know don't want to spend the extra $100 or $200 to get the model that's got cellular

01:00:22   data.

01:00:23   So here's my question on this about the timing. The Apple Watch I think has proven to be a

01:00:29   pretty successful holiday product. I think that's been a thing for them. They found it

01:00:33   to be successful during the holiday season. Especially if they can continue to offer good

01:00:37   Apple Watch is lower on the price line right by bumping them down. There is already enough

01:00:44   products in the pipeline for the end of the year with Apple right. iMac Pro and the HomePod

01:00:50   which we know are coming out at the end of the year, they might want something else if

01:00:55   they want to maybe do an event and that could also include a new Apple Watch in that event.

01:01:00   So they do an event maybe in October which could include an Apple Watch HomePod update

01:01:05   and iMac Pro update potentially. I mean if I was going to put my chips on the table,

01:01:10   I say the Apple Watch comes out next week. It was actually going to be one of my next

01:01:15   picks probably. But I think that there is a question there.

01:01:20   My gut feeling is Apple has done so much product announcement this year. It's refreshed the

01:01:24   whole Mac line that it cares about and made pre-announcements about products that are

01:01:29   in the Mac line. And it's already announced the HomePod and the HomePod is going to ship

01:01:34   by the end of the year, but they've already announced it that if I had to put money down,

01:01:39   and again, it's outside of the keynote, so I can't do it, but I think there won't be

01:01:43   any more Apple events this year. I think this is it. I think that they will announce the

01:01:48   release of the HomePod and schedule with media to, you know, review it and things like that.

01:01:53   I think they will announce the shipment of the iMac Pro and have reviews of it. And that

01:02:00   may be one of those ships on December 31st kind of things, but I think that they'll do

01:02:04   that. But otherwise I think they're going to be done. But it's possible, depending on

01:02:10   how they're feeling, that they could do it. They own the theater, right? They can call

01:02:15   everybody back in six weeks, and that's fine. But the iPhone is the big spotlight. So if

01:02:20   you want to push other products that will benefit from being in the same spotlight as

01:02:25   the iPhone, now would be a good time to do that, if you believe that. So if I had to

01:02:30   put money down, I'd say this is it for them for this year.

01:02:32   The weird part of it for me, I completely agree, is why I predicted the original iPad

01:02:39   Pro would be with an iPhone, because it's where everybody's looking.

01:02:43   But this time the iPhone is being used to introduce an iPhone, which is something that

01:02:48   they've maybe not done before.

01:02:51   And that makes it this one.

01:02:53   There's just a lot of question marks for me around what's actually going to get shown.

01:02:59   The other way to go is to make this all about the iPhone and then just like push everything

01:03:02   off into another event because the argument is the iPhone blinds everybody to everything

01:03:06   else, right? Like the iPhone shines so bright that you're like, you know, and also there

01:03:10   was an Apple TV like you miss you miss it, but at the same time more people are paying

01:03:15   attention during the iPhone event. So it's a tricky balance, I think, but I think they've

01:03:21   generally shown that they are inclined to launch, um, launch Apple Watch and Apple TV

01:03:28   and stuff in this event.

01:03:30   Cuz I do feel that, like, the HomePod does not yet warrant its own event or an event

01:03:36   that's mostly dedicated to it because I think if Apple's being realistic they should know

01:03:40   this is an enthusiast product at best right now.

01:03:42   Yeah, well, and they already announced it, so I think they're just gonna ship it. I think

01:03:47   the HomePod, they're just gonna ship it.

01:03:50   All right, pick five. I am gonna go with a slightly meta one. I'm gonna go with picture

01:03:58   of Steve Jobs on a slide on stage.

01:04:00   Oh, that was gonna be my next pick. Well done, well done. I put that in our list.

01:04:05   There is just no way they start this event without mentioning Steve. It will be mentioned

01:04:12   because they will mention the fact that they're at Apple Park and it's the first time at Apple

01:04:16   Park and they'll say where they are because it's a thing and if they talk about Steve

01:04:21   in any way they will show a picture of him and I would be very surprised if none of those

01:04:27   things happened.

01:04:28   Well, I put it in our list so you know that I approve of this. I think it is chancy because

01:04:35   again it could they could mention him because Steve Jobs theater it's undoubtedly true that

01:04:41   they're going to mention him, but I feel like they won't let the inaugural event at Apple

01:04:46   Park at the Steve Jobs Theatre pass without honoring Steve, and that probably means a

01:04:53   picture of Steve in a slide on screen or a video, whatever. And so yeah, I think that's

01:05:00   a good choice. How could we not have some, I mean, just as Tim stood on the stage at

01:05:07   at Town Hall and said we had a lot of great events here at Town Hall and this is probably

01:05:11   the last one and it wasn't, there was another one. But I imagine they will note that they

01:05:17   are at their new home and mention Steve.

01:05:20   David: But there is a risk of course which I understand of, I mean you've got to get

01:05:24   out of the shadow at some point and I know they didn't make it any easier on themselves

01:05:28   by naming the theatre the Steve Jobs Theatre. It was a fitting tribute, the right thing

01:05:32   to do, but I understand the risk and the issue of always referring to Steve Jobs. You know,

01:05:40   like it's a tricky thing, so I can understand a balance to it, but I think at least this

01:05:46   time he will be called out.

01:05:50   I think that's right. I think that's a good pick. Very good pick.

01:05:54   Pick five for you, Jason.

01:05:57   Well, since you took my next pick, you sniped me.

01:06:01   I'm gonna make what seems like an obvious thing, but I actually think it's a risky pick.

01:06:09   But I'm going to make it.

01:06:12   I'm going to say that they are going to mention Mac OS or the Mac on stage at some point.

01:06:20   I know.

01:06:22   This was...

01:06:23   We have a total of like...

01:06:24   I almost did.

01:06:25   I went the other way.

01:06:26   not mentioned on stage.

01:06:27   We have a list of something like 25, 26 items or something like that because I've been

01:06:31   removing mine as we've been talking about them, maybe even more. This was my penultimate

01:06:35   item in the ranking on this list. I think it's not happening at all.

01:06:42   I think we need to set some parameters for this one as well, Jason. I think we need to

01:06:45   like, what are we, what are we classing as a mention?

01:06:50   So I think they have to mention a Mac model or the Mac, or they have to mention High Sierra.

01:06:59   Right? I think the existence of the Mac is what I'm saying is that the existence of the

01:07:04   Mac as a product or operating system will happen at some point. And the funny thing

01:07:09   is I think it's risky, but I thought about picking Mac not mentioned on stage because

01:07:15   I think it's entirely possible that they don't even mention Hi Sierra and they

01:07:21   may not even release it at the same time. I mean anything is possible.

01:07:26   Anything is possible here with Mac OS but I feel like in the context of iOS

01:07:33   and watchOS and all that and the fact that there's a new Mac OS as well that

01:07:38   it will probably be mentioned there. I'm more skeptical about Mac hardware

01:07:42   although again I think it's possible that they will point out that in High Sierra using

01:07:47   Mac hardware you can build VR or AR and it could be in that context as well. But I think

01:07:53   what is what's interesting about this is that it should be a thing that Apple mentions the

01:07:58   Mac when it because it's one of its key products right and I think that's not I think it's

01:08:04   an open question but I'm going to go with it I'm going to say the Mac somehow will wedge

01:08:08   at least a little bit of a mention into the iPhone keynote somewhere,

01:08:12   somewhere. So that's a bingo. That is a true bingo moment, right?

01:08:16   Wow. Alright, I want to make sure that we're just making sure we set our parameters on this

01:08:21   as well as we can. So like, let's say for example they're demoing

01:08:24   the 4K Apple TV and they talk about iTunes movies

01:08:28   and they say that they will of course run on your iPhone and your Mac.

01:08:32   Does that count? Yeah, absolutely. If they specifically mention that 4K

01:08:37   iTunes movies play on the 4 and 5k iMacs, I think that that counts.

01:08:42   So the word Mac or Mac OS, that's what we're looking for here. Now I'm perfectly happy

01:08:47   with this, or Hi Sierra, I'm perfectly happy with this because I see it as possible that

01:08:56   it might not happen. Right? And this is, I think your parameters you're looking for is,

01:09:02   imagine that you aren't aware that the Mac exists and you go to this event. Will there

01:09:07   be a mention that would make you go, "The Mac?"

01:09:10   What is that? What is that? That's what I'm looking for here. We'll see.

01:09:17   I mean, if you would have said this to me a year ago, I'd be like, "There's no way

01:09:22   that's too obvious. We're not putting that in today." I'm like, "Yeah, okay." I can

01:09:28   totally see it. I can totally see them, just never. Because if they talk about the Apple

01:09:33   TV, Apple Watch, and iPhone, the Mac doesn't need to be mentioned at any point.

01:09:39   What I'm hoping is that it's going to be mentioned in very much like if we had done

01:09:43   a draft of that event that the journalists were invited to, which we didn't know was

01:09:49   happening so we didn't do it. And somebody had said like, "Okay, the Mac Mini is going

01:09:52   to be mentioned." And the mention was, "The Mac Mini is also a product in our product

01:09:56   line, right? The most innocuous, pointless lack of endorsement mention ever, but it was

01:10:03   there. You'd be like, see, they did it. That's, I think the delight in this is will they do

01:10:07   it? Will they completely ignore the Mac or will they acknowledge it somewhere? And I

01:10:11   think actually the way they acknowledge the Mac will be telling about what Apple thinks

01:10:16   is important with the Mac right now. Like, is it the iMac Pro or is it like the VR stuff?

01:10:21   Or is it the existence of High Sierra?

01:10:24   Or is it playing back 4K movies on an iMac?

01:10:27   All of those things are like up for grabs.

01:10:29   They could mention the Mac.

01:10:31   Where do they choose to do it?

01:10:32   Or do they not?

01:10:33   - Or do they effectively give the version of, "The Mac is one of our product lines."

01:10:39   - It's also a product that's doing great.

01:10:42   - That we produce.

01:10:43   - Yeah, also they've done away with their, you know, they used to do like, "Let's do

01:10:48   do a retail update, let's do a product line update, and they've done away with that in

01:10:53   recent events too, so you can't even count on that anymore.

01:10:57   So a presenter, either on stage or in one of the videos has to say one of the following

01:11:04   three words/phrases. Mac, Mac OS, Hi Sierra.

01:11:10   Right iMac or Mac Pro or something like that would count too, but yeah, exactly.

01:11:16   doesn't count I'm gonna say like if there's a Mac in in in the background of

01:11:20   something that doesn't count it has to be the picture of Steve Jobs has the original Mac

01:11:25   next to him doesn't count you see why I just wanted to make sure we set that

01:11:31   although I will say if they mention that there's a Mac in that picture it does

01:11:36   totally does count I would say it totally counts yeah if they say like

01:11:40   there he is with the original Mac that's a point for you that's it for you okay

01:11:44   I'm glad we agree on this.

01:11:46   Today's--that's gonna be--you know that's gonna be the one with the contention. I just know it. I know it.

01:11:50   Today's show, we're gonna need loads of action replays or something.

01:11:54   Wow, okay, here we go.

01:11:58   You know as well, like, I'm gonna have to be the one that's honest, because I will be able to pay,

01:12:02   I think, more attention to the words than you will, because you'll be dazzled by the bright lights.

01:12:06   I don't know. I'm gonna have my Mac radar turned up all the way now.

01:12:10   To 11.

01:12:12   Mmm, maybe Spinal Tap will be there.

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01:13:50   All right, Jason Snell, sixth and final pick time.

01:13:56   Now, I have my in my document here. I have two I have two things that are incredibly similar and

01:14:04   I need to make a decision as to where I'm gonna go with this and it's another iPhone one. Hmm. And

01:14:12   it's the name the name of the high-end iPhone. I want to make a pic here as to what what it's

01:14:18   going to be called and I'm going to make a last minute change and I'm going to say that

01:14:25   they're going to call this, no I'm sticking to my guns, iPhone Pro, they're going to call

01:14:32   it the iPhone Pro, that is my pick. Just to let people know, you may pick this, but the

01:14:39   choices really were, well there's three of them, iPhone Pro, iPhone Edition and iPhone

01:14:45   8. They're the names that me and you have settled on as what this phone could be called.

01:14:51   I was going to change my mind to "Edition" but I spent some time thinking about that

01:14:56   in over the five seconds and think that maybe "Edition" has kind of got a bit of a bad rep

01:15:02   for them. Like I don't think that the Apple Watch Edition was really met very kindly and

01:15:09   Pro is part of the product lines across all of the product lines so maybe there should

01:15:13   to be an iPhone Pro as well.

01:15:14   So I'm gonna go with iPhone Pro as the ending name.

01:15:19   If they call it the iPhone 8 Pro, would that count?

01:15:24   - Yes.

01:15:25   - Okay, so Pro is my kind of like new naming thing.

01:15:29   - I think that's fine.

01:15:33   I think that's a good possibility.

01:15:35   I hope it's true.

01:15:37   There's that too.

01:15:38   I hope it's true.

01:15:39   I think Pro-- - You like Pro the most?

01:15:41   - You know, I don't like the meaning of it

01:15:42   because a professional phone user,

01:15:44   and yet I feel like in this context,

01:15:47   what it really means is that it's the high-end thing.

01:15:50   I don't like Addition at all.

01:15:52   Like, I don't like that name.

01:15:54   I think it's a luxury brand context

01:15:58   and like a jewelry kind of thing.

01:16:01   And I think that that's a mistake for this product.

01:16:04   So I don't like it so much.

01:16:05   - Yeah, they had a shot at that name

01:16:07   and kind of blew it, really.

01:16:09   - Yeah.

01:16:11   Yep.

01:16:12   - So I think that's good.

01:16:13   I don't know.

01:16:15   I think that's probably what I think

01:16:17   the most likely name for it is,

01:16:19   is the iPhone Pro or iPhone 8 Pro.

01:16:21   - All right.

01:16:23   - All right, I've got a bunch of funny ones here.

01:16:29   I don't like any of these. - I know.

01:16:30   Are you gonna throw one away?

01:16:32   - Yeah, I mean, really, I could mention Spinal Tap again.

01:16:40   iOS 11.

01:16:42   I'm just going to say like, I mean, I want to win because I want to win something other

01:16:46   than just a WWDC one, but I don't think Spinal Tap's going to be on stage.

01:16:52   I don't think they're going to be, I actually am tempted and this is going to reveal one

01:16:55   of my Bring Out Your Dads. I'm tempted to pick a musical guest will perform because

01:17:02   Sia performed last year at this event. So I think a musical guest performing, despite

01:17:10   there being a lack of any reason why is something that seems to happen now and so they could do that

01:17:17   that would be possible but instead i'm gonna go with this which i think is gonna happen

01:17:25   and it'll be fun to see when we get to that point i i think and you can tell me how we're

01:17:31   we're gonna judge this.

01:17:33   I think we're going to get a,

01:17:35   more than just a throwaway line

01:17:40   about the OLED screen on the high-end iPhone.

01:17:44   I think we're gonna get an explanation,

01:17:47   perhaps even with some technical jargon

01:17:50   about why OLED is a superior screen.

01:17:55   Now, even though OLED phones have been out there

01:17:58   for a while now, I think Apple in its own way

01:18:01   is going to explain how now that Apple has embraced OLED with this screen on this device,

01:18:06   now OLED is great. So that's what I'm going to go with is a more than just a passing,

01:18:13   oh and it's an OLED screen, but some description of why OLED is good. I think they're going

01:18:22   to sell it. They're going to sell it. The selling feature of that phone is the screen

01:18:29   because that's all the phone is now.

01:18:33   So I expect them to go into painstaking detail

01:18:37   about how difficult it was to make that screen

01:18:40   and why they knew that the only technology

01:18:43   that could go into a screen like this would be OLED.

01:18:46   Right, like I know that's gonna be their big thing.

01:18:48   - OLED gives you blacker blacks and brighter colors.

01:18:51   The color gamut on this OLED screen

01:18:54   is the best we've ever done

01:18:56   and you'll really see the difference, right?

01:18:58   There will be a pitch for that screen and the OLED tech behind it.

01:19:02   But there is a risk for the screen in trying to talk about OLED too much, right?

01:19:09   The OLED is the best and only screen now when they are still going to be making LCD screens.

01:19:15   Two other phones and all their other devices.

01:19:18   There could literally be just a thing about why this screen is great.

01:19:23   but what we're looking for here is OLED being spoken about

01:19:27   and why OLED.

01:19:29   Okay, that's cool.

01:19:31   I think that this is a very strong one,

01:19:33   but for that reason, I would maybe not pick it

01:19:36   because I think that there are a lot of risks here

01:19:39   about what Apple is gonna do

01:19:40   to the rest of the iPhone line

01:19:42   and they don't wanna make those phones look just junk.

01:19:45   Like junk.

01:19:46   - I think it would be unfair for me to pick.

01:19:50   Apple will talk about how great the screen is, right?

01:19:53   - Yeah, yeah.

01:19:54   - Like that's, I might as well pick like faster processors.

01:19:58   - This iPhone will be rectangular.

01:20:00   Like, you know, it's, it's yeah.

01:20:02   - Faster processors than last year, you know?

01:20:04   Yeah, sure, probably.

01:20:07   But here, I feel like there's enough specificity here

01:20:10   that it's, while I think it's still a likely thing,

01:20:13   it allows us to have that question of like,

01:20:15   are they really gonna pump the OLED?

01:20:16   But I think they are.

01:20:17   I think they're gonna,

01:20:18   I think this is gonna be that typical Apple thing

01:20:20   where there's a thing they haven't integrated before

01:20:22   and now they do and it's like they just found it

01:20:24   and it's the greatest thing ever,

01:20:25   even though it's been around that, no, no, no,

01:20:27   now it's the greatest thing ever.

01:20:29   And this screen is the reason that OLED

01:20:31   is now the greatest thing ever.

01:20:33   They may also throw old OLED under the bus.

01:20:36   It's entirely possible.

01:20:37   Like, you know, there've been OLED screens before, but.

01:20:39   - Yeah, you've never seen an OLED like this OLED.

01:20:42   - This screen, and I think that's all part

01:20:45   of the conversation, but yeah.

01:20:46   All right, so that's it.

01:20:48   - That's the six picks.

01:20:50   And of course, you will find in our show notes

01:20:52   a link to a scorecard, a bingo card, a scoring card

01:20:57   so you at home, whilst you're watching the event,

01:20:59   can score along with us.

01:21:02   Let us know how you score us, but just bear in mind,

01:21:05   it does not bear weight on the picks.

01:21:07   But I love to, one of my favorite things now

01:21:09   during an Apple keynote is to get people playing along

01:21:12   and tweeting at us and sending us this.

01:21:14   It's fantastic.

01:21:15   It really is great because I don't keep up to date

01:21:18   with my Twitter timeline during the events,

01:21:20   but I do keep up to date with my mentions.

01:21:22   So I like to see people scoring along with us

01:21:25   and yeah, that's a lot of fun.

01:21:27   - Yep.

01:21:28   - But yeah, so there are six picks.

01:21:30   Let's talk about some things that we think

01:21:31   are gonna happen, but didn't make our picks.

01:21:34   This is the bring out your dead section.

01:21:36   So I think the wireless or inductive charging

01:21:39   will be on the high-end iPhone.

01:21:43   But I also don't think that it's something

01:21:44   that ships in the box and I don't think

01:21:47   it will be something that's immediately available.

01:21:49   - Yeah, I think that's right.

01:21:52   I think there's a chance it won't exist, right?

01:21:54   I think there's a chance--

01:21:55   - They don't need it.

01:21:56   - I'm a little skeptical about this.

01:21:58   Yeah, 'cause this feels like something that's like,

01:22:00   what's the story around this?

01:22:02   At the same time, if they do it,

01:22:04   they can have a whole bunch of awesome accessories

01:22:06   and they can make a battery pack for it

01:22:08   and they can do, you know,

01:22:09   who knows what else they can do with it.

01:22:12   - There's a bunch of fun stuff you can do if you have it,

01:22:15   but there's already gonna be just so much in this phone

01:22:17   that's new anyway that you can hold it.

01:22:20   - That it's definitely not gonna come in the box, right?

01:22:24   It's gonna be like, you can, it's now, you know,

01:22:26   and it's got this great inductive charging thing

01:22:28   that you can go, you can buy for $200 or whatever, right?

01:22:31   It's yeah, yeah.

01:22:32   Let's see, what do I have that I didn't wanna mention?

01:22:37   Well, I mentioned musical guests, so I'll put that in there.

01:22:42   I think there will probably be a musical guest

01:22:44   only because there was before. I don't know who it's going to be and it probably won't

01:22:47   be Spinal Tap. We did get a Spinal Tap reference at WWDC, so I feel like I'm satisfied there

01:22:51   and that was the right audience for it. But I'm going to say again in the round that doesn't

01:22:57   count, probably be a musical guest that will be baffling and they'll say something about

01:23:02   how well, you know, we like to have musical guests now. Like when they had Bono and The

01:23:06   Edge come out on stage and when they had Sia last year and they do this from time to time.

01:23:11   So I thought about picking that, but I didn't.

01:23:15   I think they're going to change the AirPods pricing.

01:23:18   Oh, you do?

01:23:20   Interesting.

01:23:21   Yeah.

01:23:22   The reason I think this is because I've been, when I was in New York, I was seeing them

01:23:25   everywhere.

01:23:26   They're becoming really popular.

01:23:28   And I think one of the best ways to capitalize on the popularity should bring that price

01:23:32   down a little bit.

01:23:33   What are they, 150 now?

01:23:35   Sell them for like 120, 130?

01:23:38   Not a big change, but a change.

01:23:40   they've got the 160 160.

01:23:42   Yeah.

01:23:42   So bringing them down to like 130,

01:23:44   you may as well just do that

01:23:47   so you can put them on stage again

01:23:49   and also mention how great they'll be

01:23:52   with the new iPhone.

01:23:54   And I think bringing the price down

01:23:56   a little bit if they've worked out

01:23:57   the kinks in production

01:23:58   would be smart

01:23:59   because this is clearly

01:24:01   a very desirable product.

01:24:02   Bringing the barrier

01:24:03   to entry down a little bit is it

01:24:05   I think would be a good thing.

01:24:07   And I understand about like, oh, yeah,

01:24:08   you want to sell them for as much money

01:24:10   you can, blah blah blah blah blah. But really I think the closer they can get this to impulse

01:24:14   buy the better it will be. They can get this to closer to a hundred dollars, they will

01:24:19   sell them with basically every single iPhone, right? Like they will sell a massive amount

01:24:24   if they can get it to $99.99 at some point and this is a way to get there.

01:24:30   I have a couple AirPod related ones that I'll mention now since we're bringing out our

01:24:34   dead which is, one is new colors. I think that's a possibility that they'll be, even

01:24:38   if it's just they're also in black now. I think that now that they've been shipping

01:24:42   for a year, that offering some variety is something that I would imagine they will do

01:24:50   at some point. You want to start with the classic white earbuds, but offering them in

01:24:56   a different color or colors I think is something they could do and will probably do at some

01:25:00   point. Maybe it will happen for this holiday season, maybe not. And then the other speculation,

01:25:05   which I think is not likely to happen, but it was on the list and I thought about it,

01:25:10   is that the high-end iPhone will come with them.

01:25:15   Not necessary.

01:25:17   I think that's exactly right, which is why throw a $160 product in the box when you can

01:25:23   get people to spend $160 on it in addition to the $1000 phone.

01:25:27   If I'm Apple, that's how I'm thinking.

01:25:29   Apple are not going to apologize to you for making you spend $1000 on a phone.

01:25:34   thousand dollars but look at the value we packed into it is probably not something that they're

01:25:38   going to say. Including AirPods in the box is a $150 discount. They ain't giving you that. They

01:25:44   want that $150 also. I think that's right. Yeah I don't see it happening. I see a future where

01:25:51   AirPods come with iPhones but that future is many years into the future. I think we're many many

01:25:57   years down the line. I think we're gonna get more HomeKit details, more HomeKit stuff. There's a lot

01:26:04   of HomeKit stuff in iOS 11. And I think that since Apple was announced their software

01:26:11   certification stuff, we may see some many more partners coming on board and they may want to

01:26:17   show that. Because I do expect iOS 11 to get some time specifically at this event, because it always

01:26:24   does. And I think HomeKit will be a big part of that where they say, "And with iOS 11 comes all

01:26:30   this new stuff with HomeKit and we now have all of these partners that are going to have HomeKit

01:26:34   products in the next few months and I, fingers crossed, hope that my lovely Canary will get

01:26:40   HomeKit support because there is this thing now, and I think I understand it at this point, where

01:26:45   you can get your software that you've written for your product certified by Apple. By doing that,

01:26:54   you can then get HomeKit certification and your product can be updated to support HomeKit.

01:26:59   That's how this software thing works is my understanding now.

01:27:02   Rather than what you needed before which is to physically include a chip into a device.

01:27:07   So it is possible for existing home products, home automation products,

01:27:14   to get software updates that include HomeKit support.

01:27:18   So I think that we're going to see a lot more companies doing this now.

01:27:25   I think that's good. I think that's a good one.

01:27:28   I was trying to pick what the starting storage price is for the fancy new iPhone,

01:27:33   and I went back and forth between 64 and 128.

01:27:36   You can't buy a jet black iPhone in 64, or in 32.

01:27:41   You have to get 128, and I don't think they're offering 64.

01:27:45   And so what I want to say, and what Michael Gartenberg said on download a few weeks ago,

01:27:49   is that it'll start at 128.

01:27:52   - Yeah, I don't think Apple, again,

01:27:54   like the AirPod argument,

01:27:56   I don't think Apple is gonna pack stuff in

01:27:57   and say, look at the value.

01:27:59   So I think it's more likely that it'll start at like 64,

01:28:02   32 or 64 and not 128, even though it's a thousand dollar

01:28:06   phone, because what they wanna do is have you buy

01:28:09   the $1,100 phone, which has 128.

01:28:12   Maybe it's 128, 256, 512 or something like that.

01:28:17   Maybe they do it that way, but I just--

01:28:18   - I think they'll only do two storage options.

01:28:21   You think so? And what will they be? 128 and 512?

01:28:25   Yeah, I think so.

01:28:28   Okay. Well, we'll see. I have...

01:28:32   I would love for it to be 128, which is why I think that it won't be.

01:28:36   You know what, though? They could literally say,

01:28:40   "And you only need 64 because of our amazing image compression!"

01:28:45   And our incredible app removal feature in iOS 11.

01:28:49   Although they probably wouldn't say anything if they did do it, but like, if they were

01:28:53   questioned by someone afterwards, that could be an answer. It's like, well, you don't need

01:28:57   it anymore because we've done so much to reduce the space that your phone needs. Yeah. Can

01:29:02   I just throw one more in?

01:29:04   Yeah, I've got two or three more too. Yeah, go ahead. What else do you have?

01:29:08   I think if any person not from Apple is going to be on stage, it will be an entertainment

01:29:14   industry executive.

01:29:15   Yes, I had that in my list and I almost picked up, I decided I did the Apple TV thing.

01:29:22   And I think this goes hand in hand.

01:29:24   I think having a movie person probably, although it could be Netflix or Amazon, but having

01:29:31   an entertainment industry person on to say, "It's so great, the 4K stuff is amazing,

01:29:37   and HDR stuff is amazing and you're going to love it."

01:29:40   I think it's a distinct possibility.

01:29:42   They like to do that.

01:29:43   Wonder if they could go big had Miyamoto right for Super Mario run. What if they brought out Bezos?

01:29:50   Yeah, I guess they could

01:29:54   But it's not impossible

01:29:56   right, but like I guess you know, they could also get like they've had him on before like Richard Plepler from

01:30:02   HBO come out and say, you know the first

01:30:06   HDR 4k release of Game of Thrones and Westworld ever is on iTunes or something like that.

01:30:12   Which is actually probably a really good pick that exact thing you just said.

01:30:17   Something like that? Maybe? I don't know. I don't know. But something like that. I think

01:30:22   there's a good chance. The couple others that I wanted to mention. I had in my pocket in

01:30:26   case I really needed during the draft, Johnny Ive narrating a White Room video because I

01:30:31   I think we're gonna get a lavish hardware focused video

01:30:36   about this design and why this spacious all screen design

01:30:45   is going to be something we're going to get.

01:30:49   I think we have to, and it'll probably be Johnny.

01:30:51   It could be somebody else, could be a great job.

01:30:54   - It will be Johnny. - Another product margin.

01:30:55   But I think Johnny will be there because-

01:30:56   - Johnny's gonna be involved in this one.

01:30:58   - This is a super designy phone.

01:31:00   And so I feel like calling the White Room video is important.

01:31:05   And then the other one that I,

01:31:08   is there another one I wanted to mention?

01:31:12   I don't know, maybe that's it.

01:31:13   Maybe that's it.

01:31:14   I had some that I don't think are likely to happen,

01:31:18   like an iCloud expansion,

01:31:22   what the new Apple Watch is called,

01:31:24   I'm assuming series three, but it might not be.

01:31:27   - I think it will be.

01:31:27   I like the name.

01:31:29   The one I wanted to mention was the Apple TV. I would like to believe, and I think for

01:31:34   competitive reasons it'll happen, I would like to believe that the 4K Apple TV is going

01:31:39   to come in at one of the existing Apple TV price points and that they may down price

01:31:43   one of the existing Apple TVs to get it closer. Because for people who don't know, who only

01:31:48   follow Apple products, the 4K HDR products, the premium 4K HDR products from Roku and

01:31:54   Amazon are a hundred bucks and the existing Apple TV is 150 basically.

01:31:59   Yeah I think they need an Apple TV that starts under $100.

01:32:03   Yeah. And also is an option for people that don't have a 4k TV.

01:32:08   Right so I think the existing Apple TV what I would like to predict is that the

01:32:11   existing Apple TV will be repriced at 99 and then this

01:32:16   one will be 139 or 149. It'll still be more expensive than the 4k

01:32:19   HDR boxes from Roku and Amazon. Of course it will, it's Apple.

01:32:23   but it will be, but there will be something down in the sub hundred price

01:32:28   for Apple TV. And it may be, another prediction I was not willing to make in

01:32:32   a draft context but I'll make here, is it may be that it doesn't come with a fancy

01:32:36   Siri remote, you know, the cheap one. You may be stuck with the Siri remote on

01:32:41   the high-end one, but it could be that they go back to a more traditional

01:32:45   clicky remote on the $99 model. I don't know. I don't know about that.

01:32:50   I don't know about that. Joe Steele, well, I think we've got an interesting thing to watch

01:32:55   about the Siri remote and how much Apple really likes it, because, you know, generally people

01:33:01   don't seem to like it. At least a lot of people don't seem to like it. I would be more inclined

01:33:04   to say that the 4K Apple TV gets a new remote, which includes Siri, and that the current one

01:33:12   keeps the one that nobody likes. That's possible. I think that there could be a new remote that

01:33:17   that goes along with this new Apple TV.

01:33:19   That isn't necessarily like an apology remote,

01:33:23   but it's just new, it's just designed differently.

01:33:25   But I expect we'll feature all of the same functions.

01:33:28   So it will have a touch pad,

01:33:30   it will have all of that stuff,

01:33:31   but it would just be designed differently.

01:33:33   That's what I think we'll see.

01:33:33   - It'll be triangular, it'll be--

01:33:35   - Yeah, it could be a puck.

01:33:38   They go in the exact opposite

01:33:39   for what you'd expect an apology remote to be

01:33:41   and they make it circular.

01:33:42   - Yep, all right.

01:33:45   But we didn't pick any of those

01:33:46   and we get no credit for those.

01:33:47   But they're just in there. They're just in there.

01:33:49   Just because we want to talk about them.

01:33:52   Alright, so that's it. That's the draft.

01:33:54   No ask upgrade this week, no ask upgrade last week, no ask upgrade next week, most likely.

01:33:59   You know why? You know why?

01:34:01   Summer of luck!

01:34:03   No, no, it's because ATP stole our thing.

01:34:06   If you want to find our show notes for this week, head on over to relay.fm/upgrade/157.

01:34:14   I have no problem with it. Actually, honestly, here's the thing. I like that they did it.

01:34:20   No, I'm very happy that they did it too. I think it's a mistake for them to put Ask ATP

01:34:27   and Follow Up at the beginning of the show because that means the show goes on for an

01:34:30   hour. There's a reason Ask Upgrade is at the end of Upgrade, people. But I do enjoy that

01:34:36   they do it and I love their answers to their questions. I think it's all really good. So

01:34:39   it just so happens that Ask Upgrade hasn't happened for a while.

01:34:43   that creator of follow-up, John Siracusa, is using the thing we made. And I don't

01:34:50   know which one of us coined the phrase. Someone can tell us.

01:34:54   It's a cross-licensing arrangement that obviously has happened here. Anyway, we've

01:34:57   had questions from people like John, Kyle, Jay, Justin, and Rob in our notes for Ask

01:35:02   Upgrade for a while now, and there they will sit for probably another couple of weeks.

01:35:08   But, you know, we'll get back to it. Maybe after the Summer of Fun is gone and the Apple

01:35:12   event has blown through, maybe it will be time for a jumbo Ask Upgrade Edition.

01:35:17   Yeah, I think that will be fun. Plus we get so many of them over this period of time anyway.

01:35:22   So please keep sending, if you have things, keep sending them in because I always need

01:35:27   stuff. There's always stuff that we need for the documents. So please continue to send

01:35:31   them in, but just know that we're not going to do them over the next couple of weeks.

01:35:34   So asking us now what you think, what we think the iPhone's going to be, it's probably not

01:35:39   worth doing because it will be out by then. But yeah, we'll be back to Ask Upgrade in

01:35:44   a couple of weeks. This is just the tail end of the summer of fun is no Ask Upgrade. So

01:35:51   yeah, that will be back. But yes, ATP, I really appreciate it actually, but I think it might

01:35:58   be good to put it at the end. I like it at the end. I like the bookends, the follow-up

01:36:04   on Ask Upgrade.

01:36:05   They have a post show which we don't have which is also very confusing but I just feel

01:36:09   like you know as a listener who loves it that's a lot of material before they get to the meaty

01:36:15   you know whatever the hot topic is so that's the reason we put it at the end anyway but

01:36:19   I love that they're doing it.

01:36:20   Me too.

01:36:21   I'm very happy about it.

01:36:22   I just find it funny that as I've been listening to them doing it that we haven't been but

01:36:27   it's completely coincidental.

01:36:30   Completely coincidental.

01:36:31   They didn't steal our cheese.

01:36:33   We didn't stop getting questions. It's coincidental.

01:36:35   Sorry, it's like everyone directed their questions to ATP instead.

01:36:40   Just email Marco.

01:36:41   Do you know what I've just realized? Do you know what we have on the PanAddict?

01:36:46   What?

01:36:47   AskTPA.

01:36:48   Of course you do, because it's such a good idea.

01:36:53   No, but it's TPA and they have ATP.

01:36:55   ATP?

01:36:56   I wonder at what point they start getting fountain pen questions. When is that going

01:37:00   to begin?

01:37:01   What about Ask Pat and Who is Pat and Why Does Pat Have Answers?

01:37:05   The podcast against technology.

01:37:08   Tyranny!

01:37:09   The podcast against tyranny.

01:37:12   With your host, Pat.

01:37:14   It's a rebel podcast.

01:37:16   Anyway.

01:37:17   Pat!

01:37:18   It's just the coincidence.

01:37:19   Pat is the host!

01:37:20   That's amazing!

01:37:21   Pat is the host of Podcast Against Tyranny.

01:37:23   How did that...

01:37:24   Well, it's Pat's that clever.

01:37:26   Pat likes to come up with acronyms for what Pat's name is.

01:37:29   He doesn't even really care about Tyranny that much but his name was so obvious, you

01:37:32   know, it's just the first thing that came to his head.

01:37:35   Anyway, relay.fm/upgrade/157 for this week's show notes.

01:37:39   Thanks again to our sponsors, The Fine Folk, Casper, Freshbooks and Encapsular.

01:37:43   Next week Jason will be at the Apple event so we will be recording and releasing after

01:37:48   next week's Apple event.

01:37:49   So the next episode of Upgrade will be out on Tuesday the 12th of September.

01:37:55   Look out for that because it will be coming to you as quick as we can possibly put it

01:37:59   out.

01:38:00   So you will have it for the evening or the morning whenever you want it and it's going

01:38:03   to be a big one.

01:38:05   We're really excited about it.

01:38:06   I know I am.

01:38:07   I know Jason is too.

01:38:08   Jason, where can people follow the coverage that you'll be putting together for the Apple

01:38:12   event next week?

01:38:13   It's a great question.

01:38:15   Let's say sixcolors.com will have all the details of where our coverage will be.

01:38:18   So keep your eyes peeled to sixcolors.com and @jasonel on Twitter, J-S-N-E-L-L.

01:38:24   I am @imike, I-M-Y-K-E. Don't forget in the show notes will be your scorecard so you can

01:38:29   score along with our six draft picks.

01:38:33   Bring out your dead is not going to be on the scorecard, that's not necessary.

01:38:36   And that's it for this week.

01:38:38   Thanks for listening.

01:38:39   We'll be back next time.

01:38:40   Until then, say goodbye to Jason Snow.

01:38:42   Goodbye everybody.

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