153: Three Ficuses


00:00:00   [

00:00:08   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 153. Today's show is brought to you by Squarespace,

00:00:15   Freshbooks and Encapsula. My name is Myke Hurley, I am joined by Mr. Jason Snell. Hello

00:00:20   Jason Snell.

00:00:21   Hello, as always, although behind the scenes peek behind the curtain recording a little

00:00:26   bit different a time and that is mostly because you are recording in a different place. I'm

00:00:30   just sitting in my chair in my office at home. Where are you?

00:00:34   I am in New York City, Jason, but nobody cares about this because it's time for #SnailTalk.

00:00:40   Joel wrote this this week and Joel said, "What was the most exciting baseball game that Jason

00:00:46   has ever attended?"

00:00:48   Boy, I'm gonna say in terms of the excitement of the event, it is definitely game five of the, wow, you know, of the World Series maybe?

00:01:04   I've been to two World Series games, both of which were very exciting, both of which were game five of 2002 and 2014.

00:01:12   Both of them won by my team, the San Francisco Giants. I would say the most

00:01:21   exciting was probably the 2014 World Series, game five. They won, it was a

00:01:27   shutout, a complete game shutout by Madison Bumgarner. That was very exciting. In terms of the

00:01:32   most actual, like, excitement during a game ever of a baseball game, I would

00:01:36   have to say it was game two of the 2000 Divisional Series with the Giants

00:01:43   against the Mets where the single most exciting baseball moment I've ever seen

00:01:48   in person happen which is a dramatic bottom of the ninth home run by J.T. Snow

00:01:54   off of the Mets closer Armando Benitez. There was only one problem it tied the

00:01:59   game it felt like it won the game like it really felt like morally that was it

00:02:05   and the game was over, but it actually only tied the game. Giants lost the next inning,

00:02:09   and that was it. So, but boy, that moment was amazing. The whole stadium shook, and

00:02:14   it was amazing. So I have a few postseason baseball choices from AT&T Park in San Francisco

00:02:19   to pick from. Welcome to the talk show. My name is…

00:02:24   I know, right? Let's talk about keyboards now. Can we talk about keyboards?

00:02:27   Yeah, okay. Baseball keyboards. Because that's, you know, when I'm on the talk show,

00:02:31   we try to scare away everybody in the first 30 minutes.

00:02:34   it's time to talk about publishing Jason Snell.

00:02:36   - You nailed it.

00:02:37   (laughing)

00:02:39   - That was a Snell Talk submitted by Joel.

00:02:42   If you would like to have your question answered

00:02:44   at the top of the show, you can send in tweets

00:02:46   with the hashtag SnellTalk and that will open our episodes.

00:02:50   So I will go back, 'cause my favorite thing,

00:02:53   it's my new little catchphrase,

00:02:55   there's nobody cares about that.

00:02:56   I don't know if anyone's noticed it,

00:02:57   but I think it's really funny every single time.

00:03:00   But yeah, I am in New York.

00:03:01   I'm in New York City, which is part of,

00:03:04   well, which began last week.

00:03:06   I'm spending the entire month of August in the US

00:03:10   in various places.

00:03:11   And I'm beginning with this show in New York.

00:03:15   And I'm going to a baseball game myself next week,

00:03:18   which was why I picked the baseball question.

00:03:21   I'm going with a couple of friends

00:03:22   to see the New York Mets versus the Miami Marlins.

00:03:26   So that's in a week or two, I think.

00:03:28   So I wanted to know if you had any tips for me

00:03:31   for enjoying the baseball game?

00:03:33   It's not gonna probably be like when we went to that baseball game in Memphis.

00:03:38   You probably won't get a foul ball.

00:03:40   Okay.

00:03:41   I would say enjoy the atmosphere and soak in the crowd and if it's a sunny day, you know, enjoy the sun.

00:03:51   Have a hot dog.

00:03:53   Will they throw hot dogs at me? Is that a thing that happens?

00:03:57   No.

00:03:58   No? Okay.

00:03:59   No.

00:04:00   That's a shame.

00:04:00   but I can shout to the guy or the girl and be like "hot dog here" or something?

00:04:05   Uh, maybe if there's a hot dog person. Okay.

00:04:07   I would recommend you just go buy a hot dog at a hot dog stand in the stadium rather than

00:04:12   waiting for a vendor to come by. Yeah, but you see, the thing is though,

00:04:15   like if I have the ability to say one here please, right? Like it's-

00:04:19   Oh, you don't- but yeah, but you don't want like a- you don't want a hot dog that some guy is like

00:04:24   kept in his pocket and is now gonna sell to you. Like you don't want like a hot dog out of a sack

00:04:29   full of hot dogs that are all... no, don't, no.

00:04:32   So here's the thing, I agree with you, that's not the type of hot dog that I want to eat.

00:04:36   But like, this is one of those things that like, I'm not sure if American people get

00:04:40   this right, about us non-Americans, is we see this stuff on TV and movies right, like

00:04:46   the person walking down the stairs and they have the hot dog and you just, they send the

00:04:52   hot dog, you know it's like a whole little thing right, and it seems to happen and every

00:04:56   time anybody ever goes to a baseball game.

00:04:58   what I would suggest, get the hot dog yourself at a stand, but yes, when a vendor comes by

00:05:05   with a lemonade or a soda or a beer or a cotton candy or a Peanuts, Peanuts, that's a classic,

00:05:13   Peanuts, oh no, it'll kill you. You should buy them anyway and then just give them away.

00:05:18   Anyway, something like that, because Peanuts is a classic, right? Peanuts, Peanuts, get

00:05:22   your Peanuts here, and then you'll die, so don't do that.

00:05:25   so I don't want to get those peanuts there.

00:05:27   - That's what you should do.

00:05:28   Get something that's not a hot dog from a vendor.

00:05:32   That's my advice to you.

00:05:33   - All right, so we do have some real follow-up.

00:05:37   We spoke last week in Ask Upgrade

00:05:38   about having two Dropbox accounts

00:05:41   potentially signed in on files in iOS 11

00:05:44   and what the possibilities of that be,

00:05:46   and we threw about some theories

00:05:48   of how we thought that it could maybe be hacked together

00:05:50   to be done, but a couple of people wrote in,

00:05:52   including Ryan, who said that,

00:05:54   This is actually a feature.

00:05:55   Like if you have a business account with Dropbox,

00:05:58   you can actually use two accounts in the iOS app

00:06:02   and switch between them.

00:06:03   So you can switch between a personal account

00:06:04   and a business account.

00:06:06   So again, this doesn't really confirm anything,

00:06:09   but maybe it lends some credence to a possibility

00:06:12   that this functionality could be maintained

00:06:14   within the Files app because Dropbox has made a point

00:06:17   of having it in the iOS app for some time.

00:06:20   So that is an important information.

00:06:22   unclear on exactly how the whole files interaction thing works and whether Dropbox can put two

00:06:30   different, you know, will it in this scenario basically have two mount points and is that

00:06:36   allowed or do they only have one, you know, file system that they can generate there or

00:06:41   not. But there's at least some hope if you have a business account. I think we also heard

00:06:44   from somebody who maybe actually works at Dropbox who basically said beyond that there

00:06:49   are no, you know, they know of no plans to support this, you know, just having several

00:06:55   Dropbox accounts. And some of that makes sense because you can get a free amount of space

00:06:59   from Dropbox and I think that they don't want to make it easy to switch because then you

00:07:03   could just have a chain of Dropbox accounts each with five gigabytes and move between

00:07:07   them and…

00:07:08   Yeah, it'd be unlimited, right? If you had it all in a root directory inside of an application.

00:07:12   Exactly. Unlimited but inconvenient, right? But they don't want to do that. So unless

00:07:17   you're in a situation where you've got a business account and a personal account,

00:07:20   that might work, although, you know, that's the real question is how does that interact

00:07:25   with files and will that work.

00:07:28   So there have been some new emoji proposals and I just wanted to run through some of these

00:07:32   real quick because emoji seems to be some part of our beat on this show, at least I

00:07:38   think I forced it in over time at least.

00:07:40   I saw Jeremy Bird like, what, a little more than a week ago and Jeremy and I were talking

00:07:46   about from Emojipedia we were talking about. We were on the new screensavers on

00:07:50   twit and we were talking about emoji. It was nice to see Jeremy. Yeah, me and

00:07:54   Jeremy have a thing where we cross paths. So he's been in the US for a month, he

00:07:58   came home and now we've reversed over. Right. I also said his name totally wrong

00:08:03   because it's Berg, right? Berg? Not Burj? Oh, I always call him Burj.

00:08:07   I'd like to use his face. Not Berg like iceberg? Ice Burj. I said Burj and then I

00:08:15   immediately was worried about it. So we'll see. Ice purge, not an emoji. But I think

00:08:23   breaking news for those who've wondered why is the pile of poo so happy is one of the

00:08:30   proposals and Jeremy was actually swinging up to Seattle for a meeting about this, for

00:08:37   an emoji subcommittee meeting. One of the proposals is indeed a frowning pile of poo.

00:08:43   Yep, so this news has come out because there has been a Unicode Consortium meeting where

00:08:49   they discuss and look at proposals for new emoji and one of the contenders this time

00:08:55   is a frowning pile of poo, which I honestly don't want. I don't really like the poop emoji.

00:09:00   I'm just going to say this. I'm not being squeamish or whatever. I just don't understand

00:09:06   why people want a poop with a face on it,

00:09:10   like so now I don't really want more of them?

00:09:13   - It's weird. - It is weird.

00:09:15   - It's weird and also the way it's generally drawn,

00:09:18   it's just soft serve.

00:09:20   It's like, it's chocolate soft serve.

00:09:24   It's not even poop.

00:09:26   - I'm gonna say though, Jason,

00:09:27   there's no other way I would wanna say it.

00:09:29   I don't want it represented any other way.

00:09:30   - No, I think it should be,

00:09:32   did you know, Jeremy pointed this out to me,

00:09:34   there used to be flies buzzing around it.

00:09:37   And those went away.

00:09:38   It's like, I think like if you're gonna have poop,

00:09:40   just go have it be real poop.

00:09:42   Like if you wanna send poop to somebody, do it.

00:09:45   But don't give me this like an anthropomorphic pile

00:09:48   of soft serve who might be happy, but might be sad.

00:09:51   And we don't, and nobody knows why.

00:09:53   Are we gonna have to have all the smileys have an option

00:09:55   where they could be poo instead of a yellow circle?

00:09:58   Is that gonna happen?

00:10:00   - I hope not.

00:10:01   (laughing)

00:10:03   - You said that like you're just comprehending

00:10:05   that maybe that's a serious possibility.

00:10:07   - I mean, you know.

00:10:07   - Boy, I hope not, that would be bad.

00:10:10   - This is like opening the jar.

00:10:11   There are some, there are 67 new emoji

00:10:14   that have been listed as draft candidates

00:10:16   for the 2018 emoji set.

00:10:18   And I wanted to just mention a couple

00:10:20   that I think might be kind of cool.

00:10:22   Bagel and cupcake in food.

00:10:24   A test tube, I think a test tube could be a good one.

00:10:27   Redheads, and I feel sorry for redheads

00:10:29   because there are gonna be, I think in the 2017 set,

00:10:33   there's gonna be new hair modifiers

00:10:34   and this would indicate that redheads

00:10:36   did not make the cut of the original hair modifiers,

00:10:39   which I feel sad about considering

00:10:41   that there is a lot of a large redhead population

00:10:44   in my own family.

00:10:45   There is a face with smiling eyes

00:10:47   and a party horn and party hat,

00:10:49   so basically a party face emoji.

00:10:52   And then there is a red face with tongue sticking out

00:10:54   with bead of sweat and a blue face

00:10:56   with clenched teeth and icicles.

00:10:58   I like those two to show hot and cold.

00:11:00   So there's some good ones in there.

00:11:02   And as you can imagine, there are also a bunch

00:11:05   of just like really boring, useless, rubbish ones

00:11:07   that I don't even know why they're putting in.

00:11:09   But there are lots of people that want lots of things.

00:11:12   And this is some of the new emoji that we may see in 2018.

00:11:15   So like probably like iOS 12.

00:11:18   - iOS 12, that's exactly right.

00:11:20   But it's good, you know.

00:11:23   There's some good ones in there.

00:11:25   There's some new animals that are nice.

00:11:27   there's a raccoon and a parrot and a hippo and a llama.

00:11:31   You know, if you're in the Andes

00:11:33   and you need to say, check out this llama, got it.

00:11:36   You're gonna be there, nailed it, yeah.

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00:12:48   So over the last few weeks we have both been discussing the potential of a new Apple Watch

00:12:54   right?

00:12:55   It started in Ask Upgrade two weeks ago.

00:12:56   Two weeks ago yeah.

00:12:57   Then there was I think a Ming-Chi Kuo story where we were talking about it last week.

00:13:01   Now this week we have a Mark Gurman report from Bloomberg.

00:13:04   Gurman is saying that Apple is planning to release a new Apple Watch this year which

00:13:10   will include a cell radio and he's confirmed that it will be an LTE chip.

00:13:15   Because this isn't something we've discussed but something that I've maybe considered

00:13:18   is they might just go with 3G first, but it looks like it will be LTE. Intel are said

00:13:24   to be the supplier of this new radio, which is different for Apple, but it does make sense

00:13:29   considering Apple's currently going through all this brouhaha with Qualcomm, right?

00:13:34   So, and I think Intel provides some of the radios on the current iPhones and Qualcomm

00:13:39   the others, so Intel definitely wants Apple's business here.

00:13:42   Oh, I'm sure Intel want Apple's business.

00:13:46   Yeah, and this is like a good thing for everybody in this regard, right?

00:13:50   Intel get to push in, Apple get to make Qualcomm feel nervous, right?

00:13:56   And then everybody can try and, well, everybody except Qualcomm can try and

00:14:00   get some of what they want. So this is a power move as well, I think, from Apple.

00:14:05   Do I think that Qualcomm chips will be in the next iPhone? Yes, I do. Do I think that Apple

00:14:12   would maybe try and squeeze them out on the Apple Watch as a sign that things might be

00:14:16   changing. Yeah. Like, I can't imagine the next iPhone would go all Intel, right? Because

00:14:22   it feels like, "Mmm, just in case. Just in case these chips aren't as good. Maybe

00:14:26   don't go that route." But we'll see. I mean, we'll see just how bad their situation

00:14:30   is come September. And it may, I mean, it may be, it may have

00:14:34   nothing to do with that. It may be that Intel, it has a radio here that is superior in some

00:14:40   some way that makes Apple choose it at these volumes for an Apple watch that they like

00:14:45   what they're getting out of Intel for this. It may not be political at all or it may be.

00:14:51   Who knows?

00:14:52   Apparently, Apple reportedly in talks with carriers in the US and Europe about getting

00:14:56   this kind of ready to be set up. I wonder about this, like how this would work.

00:15:01   Yeah, so there are some carriers in the US that are doing this now because there are

00:15:04   smart watches, there are Android smart watches that have cellular connections. And of course,

00:15:08   One of the things they say about them is that their battery life is generally bad.

00:15:11   So that's a question.

00:15:13   Is Apple going to be able to do this?

00:15:15   Presumably Apple wouldn't do this.

00:15:16   This is a little bit like what we've said about some other Apple features that have

00:15:19   been rumored.

00:15:20   Like if they're going to do this, presumably it means they can get through the day, through

00:15:25   a full day with a cellular radio turned on at least when it needs to be turned on.

00:15:31   And however, they do energy efficiency there.

00:15:33   those Android smartwatches, Android Wear watches, it sounds like what has happened is that carriers

00:15:44   have set up plans for these devices just like they've got plans for your iPad, where you're

00:15:51   paying a fee to put it on your account. But it also sounds like there's a feature that

00:15:55   is now enabled that some of the carriers are offering that, last time I checked I looked

00:16:01   this up that you can actually set it up so that it rings that device as well as your

00:16:09   phone and the idea there is it's not just like adding a sim to an iPad where you are

00:16:16   paying you know I'm paying $10 a month to put my iPad on my cellular plan but it's a

00:16:21   little more than that where in a world where you had a cellular Apple watch and you went

00:16:27   for a run, and somebody sent you a text to your phone or somebody called you on your

00:16:34   iPhone, your watch would ring. Because the way this works is that that other device,

00:16:42   that watch, is connected to the network and the network knows that's the same number,

00:16:47   essentially, as your phone.

00:16:48   Yeah, so it's not like call folding, but like call duplication kind of thing, right?

00:16:54   No, it's, it's, and it's exactly what you would want.

00:16:56   Yeah, exactly.

00:16:57   is I want it to ring my watch and my phone.

00:17:00   And this is something that can't happen at the Apple level,

00:17:02   it has to happen at the carrier level,

00:17:04   but it sounds like that's exactly

00:17:06   what has already been built in.

00:17:08   So, you know, the carriers know, right,

00:17:11   that this is an inevitable direction.

00:17:13   There are already some smartwatches out there that do it.

00:17:15   And it's some, but there's money to be made.

00:17:18   So that would be my guess is that it will be that simple,

00:17:21   that you will be able to add it to your, you know,

00:17:23   in the US, like to your AT&T account

00:17:25   or whatever the other carriers are,

00:17:28   and it will, you'll add to your bill,

00:17:31   but it will just work.

00:17:33   - Yes, 'cause when you're at home, right,

00:17:36   and you get a phone call or a text message,

00:17:38   your Apple Watch gets it,

00:17:40   but it's because it's connected to the iPhone.

00:17:44   But the point of this is that it won't be always.

00:17:47   - Right, the UI is the same,

00:17:48   but the difference would be

00:17:50   in where the phone is coming from,

00:17:52   because if you're running several miles

00:17:54   or riding a bike or whatever

00:17:55   without your iPhone and you're several miles away. And to me, that's like the number one

00:17:58   reason you have a cellular Apple watch is that you can leave the phone at home and not

00:18:02   be out of touch, which is great. Then, you know, the cell network would say, you've got

00:18:08   a call and your phone is ringing at home and your phone is ringing on your watch. And if

00:18:12   you answer on your watch, your watch picks up and that's where you have the phone call.

00:18:16   And that's just perfectly like part of the system. It's perfectly normal.

00:18:21   When you hear this, what do you think? Do you think that you would want to leave your

00:18:26   phone at home and just have a watch? Like, what scenarios in your life can you imagine

00:18:33   wanting to do this?

00:18:34   Well, yeah. I mean, I think we went over it a few times, but number one for me is running,

00:18:38   because when I'm running, I bring my phone with me and, you know, the phone is in my

00:18:42   pocket, weighing down my pocket, and it's not... I would love to not have it with me.

00:18:50   would love to not have it with me. If I can have, if I can load music on my watch, which

00:18:57   I can, and on my AirPods, like I don't need the phone anymore except that the phone is

00:19:01   the thing that contains all the data that is pushing out through, you know, into my

00:19:07   AirPods basically. So if I could run without that and have a playlist playing, I mean ideally

00:19:13   I'd like a podcast, but the Apple Watch has proven so far to be kind of really terrible

00:19:18   at podcasting, but even if just a music playlist, that would be a big deal because it would

00:19:22   mean that I wouldn't have to take the phone, because the phone's big. I mean, this is like

00:19:25   people strap phones to their arms and things like that, right, when they're running. Like,

00:19:31   to get that, to make it optional, I think it would be huge.

00:19:36   That is definitely a really good use case, but I'm trying to think of more. You know,

00:19:40   like, running is the obvious use case, but what other ones could we assume?

00:19:46   for a device that's got a lot of fitness uses, if you've got the ability when you're swimming

00:19:51   or running or biking or anything like that to leave the phone at home because you literally

00:19:58   don't need it. And I was thinking, even when I take walks, when we walk the dog over to

00:20:02   the school by my house in the evenings and all that, I don't need to bring my phone with

00:20:08   me because I'm really bringing it so that if I get a message or something like that,

00:20:12   yeah, if I'm going to do more intense work in apps on my phone, that's one thing, but

00:20:16   when I'm walking the dog, I'm not. When I'm walking the dog, I just want to remain in

00:20:20   touch. If my mom sends me a text, I can reply to her right on my watch. I can't do that

00:20:25   without my phone right now, but I would be able to do that. I even have Apple Pay on

00:20:29   my watch, so I don't need the phone to do Apple Pay. So I feel like there is a bunch

00:20:36   of stuff that is in the universe of "I need to bring my phone with me," that we just,

00:20:41   by default we do that, that maybe if we had a cellular enabled watch on our wrists, some

00:20:48   portion of that would fall out as being like, "I don't really need that." We don't think

00:20:52   of that today because there's no option. You're chained to our phones, right? Like, you know,

00:20:58   that's how we are. Because this is what I'm saying, right? Like, I totally agree, like

00:21:00   the fitness stuff makes so much sense, and I think the answer is simply just we can't

00:21:05   conceive of it yet because we don't have it, but like I'm trying to think of like, is there

00:21:09   like a threshold that would become in my life where I would then take my phone. You know

00:21:14   what I mean? Like if it works well enough that it's like, well maybe if I'm out all

00:21:19   day I would take it. But like let's say that me and Adina are going to be together somewhere

00:21:23   and we're going to be going out shopping or whatever. Like maybe I just don't need my

00:21:26   phone at all because I wouldn't use it, right? But I can still get all the contact that I

00:21:31   need because my watch is there.

00:21:33   And right now there's no question because right now it's just like, well of course I

00:21:36   I bring my phone everywhere.

00:21:37   But this would allow you to,

00:21:39   in every one of those scenarios,

00:21:40   say, do I need to bring this or not?

00:21:42   Because just if all I'm doing is the baseline of,

00:21:45   I wanna be there if somebody sends me an important message

00:21:49   or a call comes in that I need to have,

00:21:53   that I might not need the phone for that

00:21:56   if that's literally all I'm doing.

00:21:58   Obviously, above a certain point,

00:22:01   you're like, oh yeah, okay,

00:22:02   of course I need my phone for this.

00:22:03   But I do think some amount would come out.

00:22:05   And in the fitness area, you'd see it a lot.

00:22:08   And that's a major focus of the Apple Watch.

00:22:12   Obviously, the more independent the watch is,

00:22:15   the better the OS also needs to get

00:22:17   in terms of the apps being better

00:22:19   and being more self-sufficient.

00:22:22   And I hope we get there, 'cause that would be great

00:22:27   if the apps were more, like,

00:22:30   if I wanna check Slack,

00:22:34   I can't do it on my Apple Watch because the Slack app for Apple Watch is terrible.

00:22:39   But some of the other apps are better than that.

00:22:41   So that would be something that would be kind of on Apple as a developer of the App Platform

00:22:45   and the third-party app developers as well to say, "Okay, in this next generation of

00:22:50   Apple Watch, you now actually really need to think about having a fully featured app

00:22:56   that is loading data off the internet."

00:22:58   Because while they can do that now with Wi-Fi, so Apple's already laid the groundwork there,

00:23:03   going to be a much more common experience once Apple Watch with LTE,

00:23:07   you know, series 3 or whatever they call it, ships. Right, because like here's one

00:23:12   thing, right, like I would want to have podcasts on my Apple Watch so I

00:23:15   could go out for a walk in the neighborhood and listen to my next

00:23:20   episode of The Adventure Zone, right? But, I mean, look at, you know, I'll put a link

00:23:25   in the show notes to Under the Radar episode 91, which has a nice succinct

00:23:30   kind of discussion between Marco and David about Marco's current issues with Overcast

00:23:37   on the Apple Watch and how there are changes I think with watchOS 4 maybe where it's just

00:23:43   not going to be possible anymore to do what he has been doing. So like well, let's assume

00:23:49   that this thing is going to have a cellular radio in it, well currently watchOS 4 doesn't

00:23:53   have a good way for people to build these apps. So unless a new Apple Watch comes with

00:23:58   some significant changes, just having an LTE in the watch is not going to be able to allow

00:24:04   me to uncouple myself from it.

00:24:06   Exactly.

00:24:07   I'm baffled that there is no podcast app on the Apple Watch and that they're not

00:24:10   allowing podcast syncing, but it is hard, as Marco has discovered, it is hard because

00:24:14   you have to basically triage what goes on the watch.

00:24:18   Depending on what load it puts on, like loading data is probably going to kill the battery

00:24:24   on it, so you're going to want to keep the data load low.

00:24:26   what you probably wouldn't want to do is write a client that just streams

00:24:32   podcasts on the fly but you could, right? Where you know...

00:24:38   Yeah, I guess so.

00:24:39   Right? But then it sounds like there are a lot of problems with like

00:24:41   background audio and things like that that Marco has found that are

00:24:45   fundamental problems that have to be addressed by Apple

00:24:50   basically. So I do think that's a real question mark about the Apple

00:24:54   watch in general is why is there no podcast story if if independence of

00:24:58   device independence is the goal and and yet people who are trying like market

00:25:03   who are trying to build device independent apps you know phone

00:25:07   independent watch only all acting by itself independent right and they and

00:25:13   they're hitting these walls that sounds like you know Apple's got a lot more

00:25:16   work to do because they can they can ship this independent device and it's

00:25:20   not going to matter if the third-party apps to take advantage of it are not, you

00:25:25   know, able to be built. So also in Germin's report he says that to enable this

00:25:31   Apple have been working on continued battery life improvements for the watch

00:25:34   which makes sense. Gotta be, right? And so my wonder is I assume that the LTE chip

00:25:41   would not be constantly connected like it would just switch on when they

00:25:44   couldn't detect the iPhone anymore. Yeah that's that's what I was kind of

00:25:48   assuming is that this would be something that only activates when it loses touch with either

00:25:55   an open Wi-Fi network or its buddy iPhone, right? That if it doesn't have either of those,

00:26:01   then the cellular radio would spin up. But otherwise, you know, but that's, I mean, that's

00:26:06   not surprising. That's energy-saving features. Like you want to be as efficient as possible.

00:26:12   And since it knows it's got a buddy, especially like when it's connected to the phone, it

00:26:17   knows it doesn't need it because it's buddy is there. The big brother is there.

00:26:21   So uh, John Gerber and Darren Fireball linked to this and in his kind of link post he mentioned

00:26:27   that he's been hearing from, from a source that there is an all new form factor coming

00:26:34   for the new watches. Yeah, I wonder what that means.

00:26:39   Because it doesn't make sense to me, you know, like we were talking about it and I think

00:26:44   it was last week and I was saying that if they want to maximize battery life

00:26:47   just keep keep it looking the same right because you can probably pack more stuff

00:26:51   in there but who knows I mean that could mean a new form factor could literally

00:26:54   mean anything really yeah it could just mean new corners do you know what I mean

00:26:58   like it could be the same thickness could be thicker right for all we know

00:27:02   right could be bigger but it's not impossible it's not an impossible thought

00:27:06   that they would change it but unless a change that they made was clearly

00:27:12   obvious, you know, like you look at it and you're like "oh yeah they had to do that

00:27:16   because of the LTE chip" I don't know, I'm not sure if they need to. A little antenna

00:27:22   sticking out of it, you pull the antenna out. Well I'm thinking more something for

00:27:27   antenna bands or something like that, right, like there might be, you know, that

00:27:31   there might be a visual change in some way that's like "oh okay that makes

00:27:35   sense now" right, like there's some kind of change to it that way because it's

00:27:39   to need those, you know, and it doesn't seem to have any clear path for the radios. I don't

00:27:48   really know enough about how that works, but, you know, it's just like a mini iPhone, and

00:27:52   the iPhone still needs the antenna band, so maybe the watch would too, so that might make

00:27:57   some kind of change.

00:27:59   Yeah, well, we'll see. We'll see if that's this year's. John's not betting the house

00:28:05   on it and doesn't think we should either which is probably a good idea but it's

00:28:11   funny you know two weeks ago we got asked what about a new Apple watch and

00:28:15   we were both like maybe you know it's not like not not the I think you said

00:28:21   that you thought they they would and I thought you know they might but they

00:28:24   might not and now with this it's it's heating up it's feeling it's feeling

00:28:31   stronger now is the thing you know there seems to be more stuff coming and there's

00:28:35   in the gift that keeps on giving as people continue to I think kind of

00:28:40   amazingly find out more and more tidbits of information from the incredible like

00:28:48   just incredible home pod leak story from from a week or two ago it had been

00:28:56   corroborated potentially in saying that there's like a string of text which was

00:29:00   found by a Twitter user via the name of RealAntonioM that there seems to be some kind of reference

00:29:10   to an Apple Watch with a SIM in it. So there's a line that talks about Gizmo and SIM. And

00:29:16   apparently Gizmo is an Apple Watch code name. And if we see that reference is SIM, well,

00:29:24   that's the cell radio, right? So there's more--it just continues to go, this HomePod stuff.

00:29:30   and it's just continuing to find more and more and more information.

00:29:34   Yeah, it's uh...

00:29:38   Yeah, I, so last week on download, um, I had Michael Gartenberg on who used to work at Apple

00:29:44   and his, I mean, he said what I figured is the case, which is, in the end, is this going to affect Apple sales?

00:29:50   No. It's going to make a bunch of people sad and angry and embarrassed and all of those things.

00:29:54   all of those things. But he did say, "Boy, whoever did this, I feel really bad for them

00:30:00   because this is the kind of thing where..." I think he even said, "This is the kind of

00:30:04   thing where you get taken out behind the shed and shot." It's just this is an executable

00:30:10   offense. It was almost certainly a mistake, but it's also probably a mistake that was,

00:30:16   "Put this in here before you do this," and they didn't do that. So then all this data

00:30:22   gets leaked because it's not just that the firmware got posted, it's also that all the

00:30:26   stuff that's supposed to be hidden was not hidden in the firmware build. So yeah, yeah,

00:30:34   it's tough with all the security and secrecy stuff that Apple's been doing that in the

00:30:38   end they, you know, they released this firmware blob that gives away just huge amounts of

00:30:45   information and the more you look at it, the more you glean from it apparently.

00:30:48   Yeah, I wanted to just call reference to a couple of, like just a trio of things that

00:30:54   have come out since that I thought were kind of interesting.

00:30:57   So these are all in reference to the next iPhone, so some stuff that will come to iOS

00:31:02   11 post the next iPhone release.

00:31:05   There are references made to something called attention detection, which could potentially,

00:31:12   what people are theorizing that by looking at some of this code, that the phone could

00:31:16   know if you're looking at it and make changes based upon that. One of them being something

00:31:20   like silencing notifications. So not making notification noises if you're looking at your

00:31:25   phone because it knows you can see the banners. So that's really interesting. There are references

00:31:31   to many references to many many many facial expressions that the system should be able

00:31:37   to detect. I have no idea what that could mean but right like if you think about it

00:31:42   the photo stuff should be helping them understand if I'm smiling and if I'm sad and that kind

00:31:48   of stuff and there is code that references all of these facial expressions. I don't know

00:31:53   what they would do with that honestly, I have no idea but that's there, that's the thing.

00:31:59   And also the ability to double tap on the home screen to wake the screen. Now this is

00:32:05   interesting to me because I can't work out why they would add this. Now my thinking would

00:32:10   be that maybe because there's no button to press to wake the screen, like you know if

00:32:15   your phone's on the desk right now, you can just press the button and wake the screen

00:32:19   up, you know, if you just want to wake the screen up. But you can't do that if there's

00:32:24   no button, right? So just double tapping anywhere on the screen will wake the phone, which I

00:32:29   would quite like actually.

00:32:30   Yeah, if it knows that you're there and it recognizes you, you just tap and it opens,

00:32:35   or double tap and it opens. That's very interesting. The faces I have a couple dumb

00:32:40   dumb theories which is if it knows what your expression is that it might first off it might

00:32:45   actually change like an icon which is a silly thing but it's like if you're smiling it's

00:32:51   the icon smiles and if you're not smiling it doesn't smile i also thought about some

00:32:55   messages feature where like you can send an emoji and it's whatever your current facial

00:33:00   expression is if they could find that somehow to work that would be beautifully stupid right

00:33:06   Like it would just be so brilliant and so dumb, but like a great thing to show someone.

00:33:11   It would be a great demo.

00:33:13   Yeah, exactly.

00:33:15   And that sounds like something Apple would do.

00:33:17   It does.

00:33:18   That's a real-- I actually like the Emoji One a lot.

00:33:22   I can see that being an iMessage app, you know, that they make.

00:33:26   I actually think that-- I don't think anyone really use it, but it's-- or at least any

00:33:31   more than-- what is that called?

00:33:34   the digital touch.

00:33:39   But it would at least be funny.

00:33:40   And as Joe says, what is the facial expression for a frowning pile of poo?

00:33:44   Nobody knows.

00:33:45   We'll find out, maybe, come September.

00:33:49   I hope not.

00:33:50   Today's show is also brought to you by our friends over at FreshBooks.

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00:35:29   Q3 results time, Jason.

00:35:31   It's results time.

00:35:32   - Oh boy, get out your charts.

00:35:34   - Everybody get your charts ready.

00:35:35   Okay, I'm gonna give a quick,

00:35:37   I'm gonna give some numbers

00:35:38   and some statistics breakdowns now,

00:35:40   in case anybody wasn't following along last week.

00:35:43   So Apple reported in Q3 2017,

00:35:47   $45.4 billion in revenue,

00:35:50   which is up from $42.4 billion year on year.

00:35:54   So an increase from Q3 2016 to Q3 2017

00:35:58   for $3 billion. They're forecasting their Q4 revenue guidance between $49 billion to

00:36:05   $52 billion. So it's somewhere between $49 and $52. There's a lot of money, Q4 2016,

00:36:13   Apple brought in $46.9. So they're probably around going to, I mean looking at where they're

00:36:19   forecasting they're probably going to be around the $50 mark, which is a lot of money. I expect

00:36:24   that they're thinking the next iPhone's gonna get off

00:36:26   to a real strong start.

00:36:28   Now, Q4 obviously does not include the holiday season.

00:36:33   That's all the Q1 stuff, right?

00:36:34   That, am I following that correctly?

00:36:36   So Q1 is the holiday season results.

00:36:39   But Q4 would include the next iPhone release.

00:36:43   So it looks like Apple's thinking

00:36:46   that they've got a hit on their hands.

00:36:48   I guess that's what we would assume

00:36:49   from looking at this forecasting guidance, right?

00:36:52   Yeah, I think it implies that the first, you know, week or weekend or week and a half,

00:37:04   it really depends on where the new iPhones come out, but that there's some burst of iPhone

00:37:09   sales that will happen in this quarter.

00:37:12   I think this quarter ends like, I think this quarter ends maybe the 24th of September,

00:37:21   something like that. I'm trying to do some quick calculations here. So I think that's

00:37:28   right. Maybe it ends the 30th of September. Maybe it is straight up July, August, September.

00:37:36   It depends on when the--because the quarter isn't clear month by month, it's a set of

00:37:42   weeks. But yeah, if this is a 12-week quarter for these months, that's--yeah, that's about

00:37:50   right. So yeah, Apple's basically saying in that first week or two, they're going to see enough

00:37:56   iPhone sales to book that they have to roll those into their guidance. And so their guidance is up

00:38:01   from what they said their guidance was. And as we've talked about before, when you're confused

00:38:05   about what Apple stock is doing, it's because anticipation of the future is already built into

00:38:10   the current price of the Apple stock. So when Apple posts guidance for next quarter, that's

00:38:16   higher than Wall Street expected, then the stock goes up because Apple's basically said,

00:38:24   "You undervalued us. We're actually worth more than you even thought next quarter."

00:38:28   And so then everything rises with that. And Apple tends to be fairly conservative on that,

00:38:31   although lately they've been more kind of just accurate about it. And so they're definitely

00:38:37   saying they're going to be up quarter over quarter from year on year from last year as

00:38:42   well as quarter over quarter, and that they're going to be probably, you know, probably above

00:38:47   or at 50 billion.

00:38:50   So as you would probably expect, iPhone, Mac, and services sales were all up, but most notably,

00:38:59   I think, iPad sales were up as well. It's finally happened. iPad sales are up year on

00:39:06   year.

00:39:07   Yeah, I had that thought when that came out, like, "What are we seeing here?"

00:39:13   And it, you know, maybe it's just one quarter, who knows what will happen next quarter?

00:39:18   So I don't want to be premature and say, "Alright, it's turned it around."

00:39:22   But this is literally the first time sales units have gone up year over year in a quarter for three years.

00:39:33   So even if it is, let's just jump ahead for a moment and we'll try and dig into why we

00:39:38   think this has happened. But even if this is just a one-time thing, what it's done is

00:39:44   prove that it can be done. And that is pretty important, I think. What Apple have done here

00:39:53   is prove that year on year, they can make an effect. So I think that this is something

00:40:00   that they really need, right? Like these iPad sales going up, that is really important. Like,

00:40:07   that is a very important thing. Yeah, I think, maybe. I mean, what it seems to me is that the,

00:40:13   um, in this, there's an education cycle going on here where education is selling and they said that

00:40:19   Apple education sales in the US were up a lot. Um, the low cost fifth generation iPad seems to

00:40:25   have driven a lot of sales. Average selling price of the iPad is down, which

00:40:30   means that more of the mix of iPad sold was the fifth-generation iPad, the cheap

00:40:37   iPad, and not the new iPad Pros as much that came out. But in the end, you know, in

00:40:44   the end it's more iPad sold and if you're wondering whether the iPad is

00:40:49   just going to keep declining or whether it's going to flatten out or turn around,

00:40:53   And this is the first sign of reversing the downward trend really in three years.

00:41:04   So there were 11.4 million iPads sold, which is up from 10 million from the Q3 previous,

00:41:13   with revenue up 1.9% at 4.87 billion.

00:41:20   This is ending, as we mentioned, the 13 quarter sales decline.

00:41:23   So as you pointed out, right, like that even though units were up, the average sales price

00:41:29   decreased so it would probably indicate that sales of the $329 iPad have been doing really

00:41:37   well and that maybe this is the product that turned the tide, not the pro models.

00:41:44   And this jives with feedback that we were getting earlier this year when, remember when

00:41:51   I went on my tear about iPad sales numbers for a couple of weeks. Well we were getting

00:41:58   lots of people from schools and school districts writing in to say that they were waiting for

00:42:03   a revision for the non-pro iPad line because they didn't want an iPad Pro. It was too expensive

00:42:08   and they didn't have features they wouldn't need. They wanted a new Air and that's what

00:42:12   Apple gave them in this past quarter. So it could be that this is part of that, right?

00:42:17   that there's been a lot of people waiting for this product.

00:42:20   But again, like, I don't, for me personally,

00:42:24   like, I don't think it matters what it was,

00:42:27   just the fact that it happened.

00:42:30   Because it happening means there are ways to do this,

00:42:35   that there are ways to have the growth curve change.

00:42:40   So Apple need to focus on what those will be, right?

00:42:43   Like, I think about the Mac line,

00:42:46   because I think it's closest to compare the Mac and the iPad lines together.

00:42:51   And I'm sure, right, you know, again, we've seen this, we've heard the arguments that

00:42:57   Apple posed at the roundtable about the Pro thing.

00:43:01   The Pro line does not take up the majority of Mac sales.

00:43:07   But the Pro line is where a lot of the work is going on.

00:43:09   It's where a lot of the advancement is going on.

00:43:11   the sales of a cheaper model, the sales of the more regular consumer models, they help

00:43:17   prop up the development of the entire product line, allowing the pro line, so the pro desktops

00:43:22   and therefore the pro iPads, to continue pushing the product forward and then the advancements

00:43:29   can trickle down to the rest of the line. So you see improvement on the top end which

00:43:33   can trickle down to the lower end products. If the iPad can work this way, that's fantastic,

00:43:39   Like this is what it needs to do.

00:43:42   Well, it needs to show signs of life, that's for sure, right?

00:43:47   And if this is the way that it works, if this is the ecosystem for it, I think that's

00:43:52   fine, right?

00:43:53   The idea that the iPad is going to have a volume seller that is down a lot lower and

00:44:00   some less volume but really awesome sellers at the high end than the iPad Pro, I agree,

00:44:08   fine, that's fine. And it seems like Apple, this has been Apple's strategy all along,

00:44:12   is we're going to split the line and we're going to push part of it up and the other

00:44:16   part down. And how is that working? And the answer is now the iPad is simultaneously cheaper

00:44:23   and more powerful, depending on which one you want. And it worked this time. Let's see

00:44:30   how it keeps working, right? Is there going to be an upswing here or is this more about

00:44:35   kind of finding a new level that-- keeping in mind that if the iPad were to grow slightly,

00:44:40   it would be the size of the Mac in terms of revenue. So, you know, maybe that's fine.

00:44:48   Like maybe that's the level, but as long as it was going down, we didn't know. So that's

00:44:53   the thing that I take from it that I think you take from it too is this is a sign that

00:44:57   we're going to get an answer about what an iPad business looks like that we maybe didn't

00:45:02   know before because we were like, are they just going to keep selling fewer of them until

00:45:05   they're none? Or where does it stop? What's the size of this market? How do we start to

00:45:11   understand what the iPad market is? And now maybe we can.

00:45:15   And also, you know, as a part of it for me, which is, I mean, this is obvious, this is

00:45:19   clear, this is how it should be, but the fact that they have been able to make this change

00:45:24   shows to me that Apple understands how to do it, right? They've worked it out. Like,

00:45:28   somebody had a thought that they were like, "Oh, what we should do is also make a cheap

00:45:33   9-inch iPad, which is going to take a regression in some ways so we can bring the price down.

00:45:40   Why do we do this? Because we think it might help us sell more iPads in general." And they

00:45:43   did it and it worked. Right, like somebody had that idea and was able to convince whoever

00:45:49   was needed to be convinced that this was the thing that had to happen, which is just another

00:45:54   thing as an iPad user which makes me happy because it proves that they're willing to

00:45:59   try something rather than just be like "No, we're going to keep doing what we've been

00:46:04   doing for the last four years and just hope that it will work." That's what we're going

00:46:08   to do.

00:46:09   Sure, it'll work out.

00:46:10   Right?

00:46:11   Sure.

00:46:12   And that's not what they did and it's changed. And you know, we've also got these fantastic

00:46:16   new iPads as well which I'm sure have helped, right? I can't imagine that it didn't help.

00:46:20   I'm sure that they helped, but then it's been bolstered by this other stuff.

00:46:24   And I'm wondering, Jason, do you think that iOS 11 will help?

00:46:29   Yes, I do.

00:46:33   I think that although we can all, as nerds, get excited about what iOS 11 has in terms

00:46:38   of transforming the iPad and making especially the iPad Pro amazing and way better than it's

00:46:43   been, you know, regular people, Apple needs to give that message to regular people once

00:46:49   it's got it in hand, which means that once iOS 11 ships in the fall, thus kicking off

00:46:55   the fall and holiday sales period, they're going to be able to use iOS 11 as part of

00:47:01   that message and I think it will be effective.

00:47:03   I think that will be helpful because I don't think iPad sales moved this past quarter because

00:47:09   of iOS 11 being in the offing, right?

00:47:11   I don't think that consumer markets work like that.

00:47:13   Wall Street might work like that where they've been on the future, but you know, outside

00:47:17   of our circles where there are betas being passed around, right, by, you know,

00:47:22   public betas and developer betas and all of that. Outside of this circle, iOS 11 is

00:47:27   just kind of a promise. It's an IOU right now. When it's real, it could make a real

00:47:31   difference. I mean, in some ways it's still an IOU to us because there are

00:47:36   features we can't use yet, features that are probably going to change a lot of the

00:47:39   way that we work for a lot of good reasons. Like drag and drop and files,

00:47:43   probably the two biggest parts of iOS 11, we can't really use everywhere and...

00:47:49   Right, because the apps haven't been updated to support them yet and that'll come this fall.

00:47:53   Mm-hmm.

00:47:54   So even then, like, there's gonna be more and more of it and my hope is that there is

00:47:58   gonna be a really strong marketing campaign around the iPad Pro at that point because

00:48:04   the holiday season's coming and the holiday season could see movement in the Pro market

00:48:09   but there could also be movement even further in this $329 iPad

00:48:14   because it's going to be able to do a lot of this stuff, right? It'd be able to do basically all of it, I think.

00:48:18   It just doesn't have a keyboard, but it's going to be able to do all the multitasking,

00:48:22   it's going to have the dock and all that sort of stuff, right? Like it's not being left behind.

00:48:26   So I think that there is a strong case

00:48:30   to be made for the Q4 results as well. Now I'm trying to let myself get

00:48:36   get ahead of myself, right? Like, right now I'm just trying to focus on the fact that

00:48:41   finally I don't have to live in fear of the results every time because it's provable

00:48:48   that this will end. You know, this is what we always spoke about every single time. This

00:48:52   will end at some point and it's ended. And it's actually ended with an increase. It's

00:48:57   not ended with a complete stall, right? Like it's just been declined, declined, declined.

00:49:03   I always thought it was just going to level out, but it's actually gone up a little

00:49:06   bit, which is, I think, is very positive news. So I'm feeling like Tim, I'm feeling

00:49:13   bullish right now. They didn't say that this time, did they?

00:49:18   Nobody asked him anything about the iPad because the numbers were good, and he didn't feel

00:49:22   the need to offer other than, you know, he said it did well here and it did well here.

00:49:26   But there was no, basically once your numbers go up, they stop asking, you know, and he

00:49:31   stops offering like, "No, no, it's going to be fine," because the numbers were fine.

00:49:34   So everybody's like, "All right, good, great, let's move on." And so he didn't have to give

00:49:39   the iPad another vote of approval, feeling good about it, think it's going to be great

00:49:43   in the end. He didn't have to do that this time.

00:49:46   And he did cite that as well, the US education market did play into this, right, which I

00:49:51   think lends the idea of the 329, just reaffirms that, but also said that Apple saw iPad growth

00:49:57   in China and Japan with more than half of these users being new to iPad. That's always

00:50:02   good.

00:50:03   Yeah, that is a sign. One of the challenges is what's the market for this and are new

00:50:09   people coming into this market? Is there room for growth, not just selling new models to

00:50:14   people who have old models, but actual growth in the market? And they saw that in China

00:50:18   and Japan.

00:50:20   So outside of this iPad stuff, was there anything else in the earnings call that interested

00:50:26   you, was there any things that Tim was saying or any questions that were being thrown that

00:50:29   really kind of piqued your interest?

00:50:31   Well, you know, Tim is excited about augmented reality and keeps on talking about it, which

00:50:39   is great. He's very excited. He's not downplaying it, right? He's not trying to say, "You know,

00:50:45   we'll see how it goes." He's very much like, "It's going to be huge. iOS 11 is going to

00:50:52   make Apple the world's biggest augmented reality platform when it ships. He thinks it's big

00:50:58   and profound and one of those huge things he said that we'll look back at and marvel

00:51:02   at the start of it. So he is all the way in on the AR hype and I think that's interesting.

00:51:09   We got an Apple Watch check-in because remember they don't actually reveal results of the

00:51:13   Apple Watch but they did say that sales were up 50% presumably over the year ago quarter.

00:51:18   That also means it was probably not like the record that they set earlier, but it is, you

00:51:24   know, the top selling smartwatch in the world by a very wide margin, and then we make our

00:51:28   guesses about what that might actually mean.

00:51:32   The other two things that I think he mentioned that were worth at least citing, he's been

00:51:38   trying to, he's been asked several times about whether the statement by the President of

00:51:43   United States that Apple's making three big beautiful plants in the US was true and he

00:51:49   keeps trying to kind of like turn those around and say well let me explain we're investing

00:51:52   in in US manufacturing and we have a billion dollar fund and we already spent 200 billion

00:51:57   or 200 we have a billion dollar fund and we spent 200 million in Kentucky on Corning their

00:52:02   glass factory and we'll make some other investments and basically doesn't want to answer this

00:52:07   question about the statement about three big plants because it sounds like that was a misunderstanding

00:52:11   but he's not going to say, "President doesn't know what he's talking about." So instead

00:52:15   he's like, "Look, I think this is where this is coming from. We are making investments

00:52:19   in US manufacturing and that's all we're going to say."

00:52:26   It's just three really big trees in Apple Park.

00:52:29   It's just in his office. It's three ficuses.

00:52:31   Three huge plants.

00:52:32   Beautiful in Tim's office. That's totally what it is. And then the last thing I wanted

00:52:36   to mention about the about the analyst call because I thought that I could transcribe

00:52:40   it again is there was a an analyst who actually there's always one who says should we believe

00:52:51   blogs and component suppliers about the possible delays of the new iPhone given that you're

00:52:58   forecasting your revenue so strongly for next quarter to which Tim Cook said we have no

00:53:03   comment on anything that's not announced and the analyst replied, "Fair enough, I thought

00:53:10   it was worth a shot." And then, seriously, when he says that, the entire room in Cupertino

00:53:16   just starts laughing for a few, for like five seconds.

00:53:19   Oh really? That's amazing.

00:53:20   Yeah, oh yeah. "I figured it's worth a shot," he said, and then there was lots of laughter

00:53:24   and then they moved on to the next question. It was pretty funny, but like, they, they,

00:53:28   there's always one, somebody's gonna give it a shot.

00:53:30   Someone has to ask it. At least they're self-aware, right? That they know that they're never gonna get the answer.

00:53:36   But you've got to ask.

00:53:38   They're never gonna get the answer. I liked how he phrased it.

00:53:41   Yeah.

00:53:41   I like how he phrased it as like, "Well, we're looking at your guidance, so what does that say?"

00:53:45   And then he's trying to negate it like, "That certainly doesn't seem like you think that there are gonna be delays."

00:53:51   And they're like, "Yeah, nice try."

00:53:52   Yeah. You got so close. Good work.

00:53:55   Yeah.

00:53:56   Wasn't there some kind of reference to the HomePod thing as well? Didn't it make some

00:53:59   kind of joke about it?

00:54:00   I don't know.

00:54:01   I might have just read somebody making a Twitter joke by themselves. You know what these things

00:54:08   could be like if you're not following along. Well you don't because you have to listen

00:54:10   to everything. But there's lots of jokey-mo-jokes during these types of situations.

00:54:14   There are. It's true.

00:54:15   So I may have misread something. So I'm really happy about these numbers.

00:54:21   I can tell.

00:54:22   It's just a sigh of relief really.

00:54:24   It's just, you know, look, me and you

00:54:27   and a few other people, many other people,

00:54:29   we try and do our best to tell the story of the iPad

00:54:32   because we believe in the product, right?

00:54:34   But it can be really hard that every time we talk about it,

00:54:37   people just like, "Wow, but none of them are selling."

00:54:39   It's just a difficult thing to have to deal with, right?

00:54:44   Because it's undermining every point that I make

00:54:48   because Apple aren't selling them.

00:54:50   Well, they are again, and that's good news I think.

00:54:53   - Definitely.

00:54:54   - All right, today's show is also brought to you

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00:56:28   Alright Jason it is time for a USA version of #AskUpgrade.

00:56:33   So this probably would mean fireworks this time, right?

00:56:36   Rather than lasers?

00:56:37   Yep, that's right.

00:56:38   Chomp, chomp, chomp, chomp, chomp.

00:56:41   Those fireworks sounded specific, like kind of suspiciously laser-like, but we don't have

00:56:45   to worry about that.

00:56:46   The lasers ignited the fireworks, you missed that nuance there.

00:56:49   Wow.

00:56:50   To start off with Frank today who asked if we think that iMessage syncing could bring

00:56:54   iMessage to iCloud.com.

00:56:56   So, couple of things on this.

00:56:58   iMessage syncing is where Apple is storing iMessages

00:57:02   in the cloud and will be delivering them

00:57:05   to all of your devices.

00:57:06   It keeps kind of everything in check,

00:57:07   stops the reordering and all of the random stuff.

00:57:09   I don't know if you ever get this,

00:57:11   but like if I open a computer I haven't seen in a while,

00:57:14   they all download one by one

00:57:15   and they're all in really weird orders and stuff like that.

00:57:17   - Yep, terrible.

00:57:18   - This tool, this feature is being made

00:57:22   to stop some of this and to help some of this.

00:57:24   However, I will also mention that iOS 11 Beta 5 came out today and in the release notes

00:57:30   they mentioned that this feature is going to, has been removed and will be added later.

00:57:35   This isn't the first time I've done this.

00:57:37   This happens.

00:57:38   It might come in 1.1, sorry 11.1 or something like that.

00:57:44   They just, I assume feel like they haven't got this right.

00:57:46   This does seem like an incredibly tricky thing to do correctly and to do safely and securely.

00:57:50   So I guess they're just holding until they get all the bugs worked out.

00:57:53   Right, I mean imagine iOS 11 launching and every single iPhone user and iPad user basically

00:57:59   at that moment is suddenly using a brand new cloud service which means they're hitting

00:58:03   Apple servers and if they don't have that down cold, right, everybody's going to complain

00:58:11   and the whole story of the iOS 11 update is going to be that all of their message histories

00:58:15   got messed up.

00:58:17   So I'm going to give them some credit here.

00:58:19   At some point, somebody said, "Nope, we're not going to ship it.

00:58:23   We'll ship it with 11.1, 11.0.1," whatever it is.

00:58:27   We'll ship it in October, November, December, whatever, but not at launch because we need

00:58:34   to get it right.

00:58:36   Good for them.

00:58:37   Yeah, I was thinking about this.

00:58:39   I wonder if they did anything to try and test under the conditions of what happens when

00:58:44   new iPhones are sold, right, and what happens to Apple servers.

00:58:48   were like, "Oh, well if this happens, iMessage is really dead, like super dead, so why don't

00:58:53   we just try and stagger all this out a little bit, you know, like let's just chill everything

00:58:56   down." But back to Frank's question, do we think that this iMessage syncing could bring

00:59:01   iMessage to the web, iCloud.com? I don't think they're going to do that. I don't think that's

00:59:06   what they will want to do.

00:59:08   It looks like Frank said could, and I will say, "Yeah, sure, it could." Like, I'm unclear

00:59:13   on what Apple is prioritizing in terms of what goes on iCloud.com, but once it's up

00:59:21   there and you put in your password so that you can decrypt your data, which is what happens

00:59:26   when you're on iCloud.com, it could, but I'm not sure whether I can see the use case that

00:59:34   would make them prioritize that.

00:59:37   Do you think that in that scenario could the same question be made for like an Android

00:59:42   app? Would that become more possible with this?

00:59:48   I don't know. I guess. I mean, I think it makes bringing iMessage anywhere now that

00:59:55   there's a canonical cloud record of the entire library. I think it could. But I think the

01:00:05   goal here is to free up space on devices, right? I think the goal here is to get things

01:00:11   into order so that you don't have weird things where your devices are out of sync and to

01:00:16   have the ability to mark that stuff as purgeable because it's stored in the cloud so that you

01:00:21   don't have, because what happens is people have years of iMessage history sitting on

01:00:25   their devices and if you can sync that to the cloud that means that once it's in the

01:00:29   cloud you can delete it from the devices which is helpful. So I think those are the reasons.

01:00:33   Yeah I haven't done this yet but I was digging around the storage settings before the trip

01:00:38   on beta 4 and there's this the the you know where you go into about you go into

01:00:43   storage and usage

01:00:44   um that whole screen is really fantastically designed

01:00:47   now it's it's really nicely broken out one of them was just like hey you can

01:00:51   get eight

01:00:52   bytes of data back if you let us delete these messages from your device but it was

01:00:56   saved in the cloud

01:00:57   I was like that's really good as soon as this becomes an official

01:01:00   supported feature like as soon as it's released I'm gonna do that because

01:01:04   they'll be there I'll trust that they'll be there and I'll get them if I need them

01:01:07   you know, it's all like the attachments and stuff of years and years and years and years

01:01:11   of messages. But that screen is good now, like it says like, "Hey, why don't you delete

01:01:15   some of these iTunes movies you've watched?" And it's really nicely designed screen now,

01:01:19   rather than just being a list of apps. And then it has all the app offloading and all

01:01:23   that sort of stuff as opposed to deleting. There's a lot of really interesting stuff

01:01:26   in there now, which I think is kind of cool. Okay, Panagiotis asked, "Is the need to run

01:01:33   Windows in Parallels on a Mac a reason enough to stay away from the 12-inch

01:01:38   MacBook that seems pretty demanding is that demanding I feel like that would be

01:01:42   a pretty demanding thing well you know it's running on the Intel processor so

01:01:49   it could do it I feel like the bigger issues with running Parallels or any VM

01:01:55   on a device on a Mac is RAM and storage because you got to have enough memory to

01:02:03   hold the PC memory in memory which is a lot and you've got to have storage for a

01:02:10   PC hard drive image and have you done you know have you maxed out your MacBook

01:02:17   at that point the process is going to be a little bit slower but yeah I don't

01:02:22   know um parallels and VMware stuff work okay on slower processors I was able to

01:02:28   use them with, you know, my MacBook Air, in fact. So it's pushing it, but I think the

01:02:35   bigger issue is not going to be the processor being pokey. I think you got RAM and storage

01:02:39   issues you have to deal with too. So that's the thing is if you undervalue any of those

01:02:45   things or especially if you undervalue all of those things, you will run out of speed

01:02:49   and it will get slower. Or you won't have space to install Windows on your drive, which

01:02:54   can also happen.

01:02:56   Andrew asked, "What is the over-under on an iTunes overhaul this fall?"

01:03:04   Well we haven't seen it in any of the discussion of High Sierra, so I have to say I don't

01:03:11   see how they would do it if not.

01:03:13   Like, I'm starting to think, I don't think this is going to happen.

01:03:18   Because at least I don't think it's happening any sooner.

01:03:22   I don't think and because people are pointing to like the the iPod going away

01:03:26   It's like oh and it's gonna happen quicker now

01:03:28   but I don't think that that is really meaning that like the iPod touch still needs iTunes like and

01:03:34   Apple would still want to give people the way to do this stuff of older iPods

01:03:38   I don't think that this is something that is imminent

01:03:41   I feel like iTunes has still got a lot of life left in it yet

01:03:45   And we won't see an iTunes overhaul in my opinion until there's already an Apple music app

01:03:50   I don't think that this is like a one and done like pulling the tablecloth out from underneath the table like I

01:03:57   Feel like the Apple music will appear on the Mac and iTunes will still live for a while and then they'll slowly

01:04:03   Kind of put some more component pieces in but I don't but definitely not seeing it in 2017. I would say

01:04:10   Maybe 2018 we see like Apple music on the Mac or something and then starts to move on from there, but I

01:04:16   Really don't think that this is an imminent thing

01:04:19   anymore. I just I feel like they would have announced it if they were doing it

01:04:24   this fall. Yeah I agree with you. Yeah. Hi Sierra because this is a this is this

01:04:28   strikes me as being an OS feature. Hi Sierra. This strikes me as being an OS

01:04:33   feature so the fact that they didn't announcement didn't announce it at WWDC

01:04:38   that was the moment where I thought oh okay not gonna happen this year moving

01:04:42   on doesn't mean they couldn't do it along the way they did photos right in

01:04:46   the spring and had that be in an OS update that came out in the spring, photos appeared.

01:04:53   But, I don't know. I think we've seen their story for the Mac, and I would be surprised

01:05:01   if they kept something like that hidden and then dropped it in the fall. It could happen,

01:05:06   but it goes against everything in their playbook about the Mac.

01:05:13   James wanted to know how many apps can be placed in the dock on iOS 11 and I looked

01:05:19   into this. It is 13 apps plus the three recent apps on the 10.5 and 9.7 and it is 15 apps

01:05:29   plus the three recent apps on the 12.9. So the three recent apps is like three apps on

01:05:34   the right hand side, like three apps you've recently used so you can just quickly access

01:05:38   them again. So it's slightly different between the two sizes but it's still quite a lot in

01:05:43   in there. And of course you can put folders in there too. So you can have everything if

01:05:49   you want, but you can put folders in there. Do you have any folders in your doc as it

01:05:54   is right now? I have one where it just has like Google Docs stuff and things like that.

01:05:58   No, no. I tried it and I hated it. Honestly, I hated having the folder there and I hated

01:06:04   the extra step of having to open it up in order to get the apps in there. And I'm also,

01:06:09   I've heard Fraser and Federico talk about the issues with, you know, multitasking and

01:06:14   how things have to be in the dock.

01:06:15   I don't have apps, I don't have so many apps that I use occasionally in split-screen multitasking

01:06:24   that I can't put them in the dock, which I know they do, but like I don't, I have on

01:06:29   the 12.9, I've got 15 apps there, I don't have 15 apps in my dock because I just don't.

01:06:35   And I don't want to put a folder in there, even for organizational purposes, because

01:06:39   it's an extra tap then every single time I want to bring up that

01:06:42   that app so I don't. Josh asked should Apple consider an iPad upgrade program

01:06:49   mimicking what Microsoft is now doing with Surface?

01:06:52   So a week or two ago Microsoft announced that there is a

01:06:57   a new Surface program in which you can sign up and you'll get a new Surface

01:07:03   every year like it's called Surface Plus and Surface Plus for business

01:07:08   and you're effectively on a 24 month contract, but after the 18 month point has passed you can

01:07:16   return the previous contracts and sign up again and get a new Surface device. So I was thinking

01:07:22   about this, like this is another way to move iPads right? Like if that's a thing that you want to

01:07:27   do, I don't know but I feel like this is maybe a little bit more of a last ditch attempt.

01:07:37   I don't know, it's financing is what it is.

01:07:40   It's financing.

01:07:41   - Yeah.

01:07:42   - It's financing and also trying to create a scenario of

01:07:46   sort of forced upgrade.

01:07:51   It's not quite forced, but like creating an upgrade cycle

01:07:54   where there isn't one.

01:07:55   Saying you like the latest and greatest

01:07:57   so you can just pay us monthly

01:07:58   and every 18 months you can get the latest and greatest.

01:08:01   I would think that, I don't know,

01:08:04   the people who want the latest and greatest

01:08:05   are just gonna go out and buy it

01:08:06   day that it's available. So we come back to what is this and it's sort of like, well,

01:08:12   somebody who wants to pay a flat amount every month not have these occasional large purchases.

01:08:19   I can see some value in that. Apple has offered sort of financing programs in the past. Maybe

01:08:25   this is the future. Maybe the future is subscription services for our technology. But I don't know.

01:08:31   The fact that Apple hasn't done it so far suggests that Apple's not super motivated

01:08:35   to do this. I will say cellular carriers do this with iPads now. They will do this with

01:08:44   a cellular iPad. They will do this. And I have a friend who is still, who is impatiently

01:08:49   waiting for his, I think, T-Mobile iPad payment period to end so that he can get a new iPad.

01:09:00   So they are out there.

01:09:03   Those are more traditional, like cellular-based reimbursement kind of things.

01:09:10   But it's all sort of similar.

01:09:11   It's all just a matter of what...

01:09:15   As a company, you just want to say, "What can I do to make people give me money?"

01:09:19   And if it's offer them a monthly plan where they get to turn in their thing and get a

01:09:24   new one every 18 months, great.

01:09:26   Let's do that.

01:09:27   And if they think that that'll make a big difference, but there's overhead there.

01:09:30   I think Apple is so focused on the iPhone, I think maybe the iPad will just take care

01:09:33   of itself.

01:09:37   And finally today, Jeff asked whether the iPad iOS 11 keyboard is coming to the iPhone

01:09:44   as well.

01:09:45   So I assume that what Jeff is referencing here is the new iPad keyboard, which you can

01:09:52   swipe on the keys to access punctuation and additional characters and numbers and stuff

01:09:57   like that.

01:09:59   So I wanted to just kind of, my thinking on this, I don't think that this is going to

01:10:04   come to the iPhone because it's currently different on each iPad.

01:10:08   So the smaller size gets the swiping keys for all punctuation, so the entire keyboard

01:10:13   has these little glyphs on it which is every key has another function that you can do if

01:10:18   you swipe down on it.

01:10:20   But the 12.9 will only allow you to do this for the number row, you still have to click

01:10:24   in to a button to bring up these additional keys.

01:10:28   So my thinking is on the account that they've already decided that this isn't something

01:10:32   that they need to mimic for both iPads, I don't think that we're going to see it for

01:10:38   the iPhone either.

01:10:40   Plus it would really be an iOS 11, so.

01:10:43   Yeah exactly right.

01:10:44   I mean technically the iOS 11 keyboard is coming to the iPhone because iPhones run iOS

01:10:50   11 and the keyboard that's on the iPhone and iOS 11 is the iOS 11 keyboard for the iPhone,

01:10:54   but yes you're right I think he means the little swipe downy thing and that is, yeah

01:10:57   Yeah, just on the 9 7 and the 10 5 iPad Pros, they're not even on the, or, and iPads, they're

01:11:02   not even on the 12 9, sadly. I guess, sadly, I don't know. It's a full screen on the 12

01:11:08   9, so, full-size keyboard, we're doing good on the 12 9. We don't need it. I don't even

01:11:13   want it.

01:11:14   It is nice to not have to hit the other button, though, right? Like, so you hit a button and

01:11:18   then you have to hit another button.

01:11:19   It is, it's really nice. I like it a lot. I think there are a lot, I think there's a

01:11:24   lot to be said for it. Yeah, it's a pretty cool thing. I think, I don't know, I think

01:11:29   the ergonomics of the phone and the iPad are so different that going that direction where

01:11:34   you've got a lot of things that kind of get triggered on pull down, where would you, you

01:11:38   can't label them, right? Because there's no room on an iPhone keyboard.

01:11:41   Yeah, yeah, that's a really good point. For that secondary character labeling, so

01:11:46   then they would be kind of a secret and then if you're just moving fast and you swipe your

01:11:49   finger a little bit and then you get a weird character and I bet you they mocked something

01:11:53   up and we're like, "No, forget it. This is not something that will work on the iPhone,

01:11:56   but we could do it on the iPad."

01:11:57   I mean, even if you could fit the labels, right, the labels would be so... They'd be

01:12:01   too small, I think. I think it would end up being pretty small, especially on the smaller

01:12:06   phones, right? Like, yeah, maybe you could do it on the Plus, right? But like, you can't

01:12:12   continue to have this weird monster keyboard thing, right? Like on some... It just gets

01:12:17   too messy. And it really works great on the 105 and the 97 iPads. The only thing I'll

01:12:23   say on is whilst I really like it I feel like I'm hunting for the punctuation too

01:12:27   much right like I because obviously the well don't but they don't seem to be in

01:12:34   cases where I would specifically expect them to be because that's not actually

01:12:37   how a keyboard works right like the the semicolon is not actually behind the K

01:12:45   key right on my keyboard so it's like there isn't like a muscle memory that

01:12:50   I've built up yet. Eventually maybe, but I will say the numbers, I've gotten really used

01:12:54   to doing it with the numbers and I like that a lot. So that one's pretty sweet. So yeah,

01:12:59   that's it. I think that it is a good feature, but it requires a little bit more work before

01:13:08   maybe moving it to other devices if they ever would. I think it would be a bit tricky.

01:13:13   Alright, so that wraps it up for this week's episode. If you want to find our show notes,

01:13:16   you can head on over to relay.fm/upgrades/153.

01:13:20   If you want to find Jason online,

01:13:21   he's over at sixcolors.com.

01:13:23   He is at the incomparable.com,

01:13:25   he's @jsnell on Twitter, J-S-N-E-L-L.

01:13:28   And I am @imike, I-M-Y-K-E.

01:13:32   I want to take one moment to thank our sponsors again,

01:13:34   The Fine Folk at Encapsula, FreshBooks, and Squarespace.

01:13:39   Will we both be back next time?

01:13:42   - So I think the way we should put it is,

01:13:44   now enters a series of special episodes of Upgrade. So we'll have a special episode next

01:13:51   week that Myke won't be on, a special episode the week after that that Myke will be on with

01:13:56   special guests, and then there will be, I think the week after that there's another

01:14:00   episode with a guest star, although that'll be a more normal episode, and then finally

01:14:04   Myke will be back. So I think you're only on one of the next three.

01:14:09   So I hope that you'll miss me. But we have some great stuff.

01:14:12   How could they not?

01:14:13   some great stuff planned. I'm very excited for the episode that will be coming out on the 21st,

01:14:19   which is our special with guests. So yeah, look out for that. We've had an idea and the idea

01:14:28   spiraled out of control into new and amazing things. So there you go, look out for that one.

01:14:35   Thanks so much for listening. Until next time, say goodbye, Jesus.

01:14:39   Bye everybody.

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