150: I Worry About You, Jason


00:00:00   [

00:00:12   150. Today's show is brought to you by Blue Apron, Mac Weldon, and Encapsula. My name

00:00:18   is Myke Hurley, and I am joined by Mr. Jason Snell. Congratulations, Jason Snell, on 150

00:00:25   episode of Upgrade.

00:00:26   - Congratulations to you too, Myke. I think this means we've been doing this almost three

00:00:32   years.

00:00:33   - Wow. That's very impressive, isn't it?

00:00:36   - Mm-hmm.

00:00:37   - Time flies when you're having fun.

00:00:39   - Yes.

00:00:40   I couldn't think of a good pun there, so I just went with the actual phrase.

00:00:43   Just the actual thing, sure.

00:00:46   I have a #SnellTalk question that I've been saving for a special occasion, and I have

00:00:51   deemed our 150th episode a special enough occasion.

00:00:55   Jason Snell, Christopher asks you, "Can you do an impression of Myke?"

00:01:01   Oh, I can.

00:01:05   I'm glad he made no value judgments.

00:01:07   Can you do a good impression of Myke?

00:01:09   What I should answer here is yes.

00:01:10   Yes I can. Thank you for asking, Christopher. Yes I can.

00:01:13   Moving on. Come on.

00:01:15   Hello, mate! This is a podcast where I decide whether to use my large iPad or my small iPad.

00:01:22   Very good. Very good. So, congratulations. This is a very good impression of me.

00:01:28   My better impression would be, "From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 150, brought

00:01:35   to you by the good people at..." Sponsor read here.

00:01:38   Was that a better impression? Or was it just a...

00:01:40   It was.

00:01:41   I think it was just different.

00:01:42   You don't have as many accents when you're doing the intro as you do later on.

00:01:46   But hello mate, this is a podcast about iPads and the people who love them.

00:01:51   I have spent the entire day today thinking about if you were going to ask me if I could

00:01:55   do an impression of you and I've can't.

00:01:59   Just FYI, I can't.

00:02:01   I thought about it and I can't make my mouth make the sounds.

00:02:07   I wasn't going to ask.

00:02:08   I'm not very good with any American accents.

00:02:11   The American accent is really difficult for me.

00:02:13   I think because my accent is so in the middle now in so many different ways that

00:02:18   I struggle with that one.

00:02:20   I can do a really good Cockney accent though.

00:02:23   So that's good to know.

00:02:24   Yeah, sure.

00:02:26   If you would like to send in a question for our #snowtalkquestion segment, then

00:02:33   just tweet with the hashtag #snowtalk and we will get them.

00:02:36   and I would like to thank Christopher for his truly excellent quiz task question that

00:02:42   he sent in. #snelltalk. Mr Jason Snell, we have a selection of follow-up today. Our first

00:02:50   piece of follow-up comes in to us courtesy of Kerry. We have been speaking, people have

00:02:54   been asking us questions, do we think that there are going to be AirPods 2? Kerry has

00:02:58   written in with a potential thing that could spark AirPods 2 and that is Bluetooth 5. Could

00:03:06   carriers wrote in to say that Bluetooth 5 could be a good enough reason for Apple to update the AirPods because of some of the

00:03:11   enhancements and the advantages that the fifth version of Bluetooth has over the fourth spec.

00:03:20   So Bluetooth 5 could

00:03:22   significantly increase the range and speed of data transfer for AirPods and it also has built into the spec

00:03:29   more easy pairing of multiple devices and

00:03:33   Something that is in Bluetooth 5 which we spoke about in this show in the past

00:03:36   I believe is the fact that you can actually have one source going to multiple

00:03:42   outputs so you can have like say say you have Bluetooth 5 in an iPhone you could have it going out to two different speakers

00:03:50   I mean that could potentially help with AirPods stuff maybe I guess right because they're these two little different things

00:03:54   So Bluetooth 5 could it be a big improvement? It could increase the range which would be great, right?

00:03:59   So you could have your phone off in the house and you could be out right at the very back of the garden still using

00:04:04   your AirPods

00:04:05   but I

00:04:06   Don't what I think that this will be something that Apple will include in the next version of AirPods

00:04:11   But I don't think that it's gonna be anytime soon

00:04:14   My feeling on this would be that maybe the next iPhones get Bluetooth 5 chips in them

00:04:19   But that they would wait to talk about fantastic new AirPods features that Bluetooth 5 would enable

00:04:26   until maybe Bluetooth 5 has been around in iPhones for a little bit longer, you know, so like maybe we get like another edition of

00:04:33   iPhones with Bluetooth 5 in them before AirPods gain these features as well. What do you think?

00:04:39   I think, so I'm not a Bluetooth expert by any stretch of the imagination, but my gut feeling here, my

00:04:46   my knee-jerk response to this is

00:04:48   although Bluetooth 5 is an improvement, a lot of the improvements are things that Apple

00:04:55   probably doesn't care enough about to quickly turn around a new set of AirPods

00:05:01   and the features that it maybe cares a little more about might be features

00:05:06   Apple has already solved problems with with their overlay on Bluetooth 4 that

00:05:13   they put in with the with their special processor and all that. So like

00:05:18   functions built in to help with more easily pairing devices.

00:05:24   Apple's got that. Apple already built its own functionality for pairing, and it's built

00:05:31   a lot of stuff on top of Bluetooth 4 in order to do that, and they still work as standard

00:05:36   Bluetooth headphones, but they built that extra layer on top. And I'm not sure how much

00:05:42   Apple really cares about significantly increasing the range of AirPods. I mean, would they like

00:05:47   to do that eventually? Sure, why not? I definitely have that where I have my phone plugged in

00:05:53   in the kitchen and I walk to the back bedroom and things start to get a little bit spotty

00:06:01   because the phone is whatever that is 10-20 feet away. But and as for speed of data transfer

00:06:09   I think that's irrelevant so I think what I would say is I agree that eventually Apple

00:06:16   will update the AirPods to support the new standard and they'll take advantage of what's

00:06:22   better in it when they can, although for a while they're going to want it to be a

00:06:26   great experience like it currently is on older phones. I think that's also true.

00:06:31   They're going to not want to regress on the phones that don't have Bluetooth 5.

00:06:35   But I don't see enough here for this to be proof that Apple will be updating

00:06:45   them soon. I feel like they work great. Apple's happy with them. Apple's still, you

00:06:51   know, trying to make them fast enough to sell them now seems like not the time to

00:06:56   go back. I just don't see any need. Bottom line is I don't see a need and we

00:07:01   can throw up all sorts of new tech and say, "But there's new tech available."

00:07:04   Yeah, but what's the need? Does Apple need to update the AirPods right now? And they

00:07:09   don't. Are they working for new AirPods that will be better in

00:07:13   all sorts of ways? Because there are other ways that the AirPods could probably be

00:07:16   better too, not just supporting Bluetooth 5. If you view it from the functionality

00:07:21   side and figure like, "What do we pick up with Bluetooth 5? What could we put in with

00:07:25   our own special processor kind of stuff?" Of course they're working on that, but I have

00:07:31   a hard time seeing that when this product has only been out less than a year that they

00:07:35   would turn it around. So that still feels very much to me like a product for 2018 or

00:07:41   later. It feels like a new product. It feels like a great new product now. There's no need

00:07:46   to turn it around when they're still struggling to build it. Unless they change it because

00:07:50   they can they figured out a better way to build it but even then I think

00:07:53   they're not going to brand it or market it I think they would just do that

00:07:56   silent up update that I mentioned last week where maybe they make some

00:08:00   internal tech tweaks but it's still just air pods and they don't really talk

00:08:03   about that it's slightly different on the inside and unless you crack them

00:08:06   open you might not even be able to tell the difference.

00:08:09   There has been a Galaxy Note 7 fandom edition teardown at iFixit so they got

00:08:16   their hands on the refurbished and re-released Galaxy Note 7 that we spoke about a week or

00:08:25   two ago. And it turns out kind of exactly as we expected. They've torn it apart and

00:08:31   they can confirm and they have confirmed that the biggest difference in this model to the

00:08:34   previous one is that the battery is indeed smaller. It is 9% smaller in both wattage

00:08:41   and physical size, that's the only change. So they just made a small... Well, they also

00:08:47   did this thing for Korean cell networks to enhance the band reception for Korean cell

00:08:53   networks because that's where it's going to be sold mostly. But yeah, they did indeed

00:08:57   make the battery smaller. They used a different battery. It was exactly as we expected that

00:09:01   they would do, but now iFixit has gone ahead and confirmed it for us.

00:09:06   - Yeah, somebody we know was talking about

00:09:09   how they were sorely tempted to try and get one of these

00:09:12   imported in from Korea just because they wanted to have it.

00:09:15   And that's fandom in a nutshell there.

00:09:18   - This is why they did it.

00:09:19   - This is why they did it.

00:09:20   - And they got them.

00:09:21   And if they're confident that they're fine now,

00:09:24   I mean, by all accounts, it was a great phone, right?

00:09:26   So, you know, more power to them.

00:09:28   I look at this and think what might've been,

00:09:31   that this is just such an example

00:09:32   of pushing their product too far.

00:09:34   and that if they had released it as this,

00:09:38   they wouldn't have been able to make

00:09:39   quite the same battery claims, I guess,

00:09:41   but it would have been a safer phone

00:09:42   and they pushed it too hard.

00:09:44   And that will be the cautionary tale

00:09:46   of the Galaxy Note 7 forever in the smartphone business.

00:09:50   And I would imagine every single company

00:09:53   that is making a smartphone now has that on their list

00:09:56   of things not to do is what Samsung did with that product.

00:10:00   - Yeah, even if for a short time or however,

00:10:03   like this phone changed the entire smartphone industry.

00:10:06   Like you might not see it,

00:10:08   but literally every single company

00:10:11   is treating battery tech differently now

00:10:13   on the pure risk that this could happen to them.

00:10:16   - Either they're treating their battery tech different

00:10:18   or they reviewed their battery tech

00:10:20   to make sure that they were already taking standards

00:10:23   that Samsung wasn't, right?

00:10:24   Because it's probably like Apple

00:10:26   didn't look at their battery standards and go,

00:10:28   oh geez, that could have happened to us.

00:10:30   They probably were like, "That's why we don't do X, right?"

00:10:34   Is because of that.

00:10:35   But maybe not, maybe Apple was like,

00:10:37   "Oh yeah, you know, yeah, let's tighten this up."

00:10:40   But I'm sure there are some other companies

00:10:41   that are very much like,

00:10:43   "Yeah, we can't, we're lucky that that didn't happen to us.

00:10:47   "So we gotta step up our standards on that side

00:10:49   "or that's gonna be."

00:10:50   Plus, regulatory bodies are gonna be more aware

00:10:54   and reviewers are gonna be more aware.

00:10:55   Like everybody else is hyper aware of this area

00:10:59   to the point where I would say the next great smartphone tech failure won't be from a battery

00:11:05   almost certainly because everybody is looking at the batteries now. It will be somewhere

00:11:09   else.

00:11:10   I just feel like even if you work for Apple and you're very confident, you might just

00:11:14   go, "Can we just do one review?" You know, like someone sat down and just done a review

00:11:20   of the battery testing procedure just to doubly, doubly make sure that we're doing this the

00:11:24   way that we should be doing it. Because you just don't want to be the company that follows

00:11:31   this, right? You don't want to be the company that does it, you definitely don't want to

00:11:35   be the company that it happens to afterwards. Because there's no excuse now, right? There's

00:11:40   no excuse then, there's no excuse now. Very quick heads up. The very end of this show

00:11:46   we're doing a little bonus mic at the movies because I saw Spider-Man Homecoming this weekend

00:11:51   and I really want to talk about it and Jason is the perfect person to talk about it with.

00:11:56   So the very end of the show after Ask Upgrade this week will be a mic at the movies, Spider-Man

00:12:02   Homecoming and of course it will be full of spoilers. So just to let you know we'll play

00:12:06   the spoiler horn and everything but just so you know right at the very end of the show

00:12:10   today we're going to be talking about Spider-Man. It was World Emoji Day yesterday as we recorded

00:12:16   was July 17th. What a huge day for World Emoji Day. This is a three-year-old event

00:12:23   which was created by a friend of the show and creator of Emojipedia, Jeremy

00:12:28   Burch. He created World Emoji Day in 2014 and this year it picked up steam

00:12:35   incredibly. So many things were happening kind of around the world. It's fun to

00:12:42   follow Jeremy online because you've got to see him in all these different news

00:12:45   outlets for the day. It was huge. And one of the biggest things that happened in the

00:12:50   day is Apple unveiled a selection of the new emoji that will be coming later this year.

00:12:57   And it also seems like in something which is also incredibly impressive that Emojipedia

00:13:02   was given some kind of exclusive on this because I mean I saw it on Emojipedia before I saw

00:13:07   it anywhere else even on Apple's PR newsroom. So that in and of itself is a pretty huge

00:13:14   achievement. I want to put this be some links in the show notes so you can go

00:13:18   and see them. Here's some examples that Apple gave for some of the emoji that

00:13:21   are going to be finding their way into our iPhones. I expect as with iOS 11. So

00:13:28   we're looking at woman with headscarf, bearded person, which I am of course

00:13:31   extremely excited about, breastfeeding, person meditating, elf, zombie and genie

00:13:39   as some of them and I think that there's multiple race and genders for these. Exploding head,

00:13:46   face vomiting, starstruck, crazy face, sandwich, coconut, t-rex and zebra. These are some of

00:13:52   the ones that we saw. Also known as zebra, in case you didn't understand me. I'm sure

00:13:58   you've taken a look at these new emoji, Jason, which really kind of stand out to you. Which

00:14:02   of these are you excited about?

00:14:08   I feel like we talked about this before because this is the new spec here.

00:14:13   We spoke about the spec. When the spec came out that included the names of these, we spoke

00:14:18   about the ones and the ones that Emojipedia had drawn up. But of course, this is Apple

00:14:22   showing off what they're actually going to look like on our iPhones.

00:14:28   So I mean, it's what we, it's basically what we expected. So I don't know if I have, like,

00:14:33   I like some of them better, I like the Elf and the Zombie better maybe than the Genie

00:14:35   a little bit, but it, you know, it's all, it's all more images in the lexicon, which

00:14:40   I think is great. And it's, you know, these are the apple emojis, so they are using apple

00:14:44   style, they are, in that way, they literally are what you would expect them to be, if you

00:14:49   imagined it. I think the bread on the sandwich is a little bit thick, but other than that

00:14:53   I'm okay.

00:14:54   I really like the four faces that they showed off, the smileys. I think they're all great.

00:15:00   These are all four that I wanted and from the designs, these are four that I will use.

00:15:05   Like the stars in eyes and the exploding head and the crazy face and the vomiting face.

00:15:11   I will use all of those and I'm excited about them. Especially the vomiting one and the

00:15:17   mind blown one. These are two that I've wanted anyway and they do a good job. These look

00:15:22   really great. I'm excited and I'm sure it will be a reason to push everybody into upgrading

00:15:28   their to iOS 11 later this year.

00:15:32   Well, as we've said before, emoji is an upgrade motivator. It just is. That's just like you

00:15:39   get the new emoji if you have, you feel left out, you fear of missing out if you get that

00:15:44   box with a question mark in it and realize you have to go up to iOS 11 in order to see

00:15:48   that emoji. It may seem silly that that would be a reason to update, but it doesn't really

00:15:52   matter it is and Apple knows it. I want to share an emoji frustration whilst

00:15:57   we're talking about emoji. Just a quick side. Slack, what are you doing? There are like

00:16:03   so many emojis still not officially supported in Slack. Like even of like the previous emoji

00:16:09   spec, like what was it like four or something. And it's literally a web app, although they

00:16:14   do make their own, do they make their own emoji? They do, they make their own emoji

00:16:20   thicker, right? And it can display emoji if you type them in, but like they are a company

00:16:25   that a massive part of their identity is based around emoji. Like the emoji reactions thing.

00:16:34   I want to be able to use all the new emoji in the emoji reactions thing and I can't.

00:16:39   And it's mind boggling to me that they haven't put this in yet. I can't work out what why

00:16:46   why this isn't there. They're not a small company, a company with a huge engineering

00:16:50   team as far as I'm aware. Come on Slack, put the emoji in. We're nearly to the next set

00:16:57   of emoji and they're still not all in there yet. Sort of that. That's my plea to Slack

00:17:02   right there. I wanted to do a bit of follow out, Jason,

00:17:06   before we move on today. For the Command D conference, which is happening on August 9th

00:17:12   in Santa Clara in the convention center there.

00:17:15   It is a conference focused on automation,

00:17:17   and I wanted to mention it because you're gonna be there.

00:17:20   - Yeah, I will be there.

00:17:22   It is all about automation, macOS and iOS.

00:17:26   There will be a bunch of other people there

00:17:28   who are interesting talking about automation.

00:17:31   It's in Santa Clara.

00:17:32   If people wanna go, they can go to CMDDCONF.com.

00:17:39   This is sort of the South Segoian automation

00:17:42   on Apple platforms, independent conference

00:17:46   and tickets are available.

00:17:47   I will be there.

00:17:48   And in fact, I'm going to give you a little teaser,

00:17:50   which is my role is gonna be at the end of the event.

00:17:55   We're gonna do a live conversation with participants

00:17:59   in the day with some of the speakers about automation

00:18:03   and things like that.

00:18:04   And that is basically a live episode of upgrade

00:18:08   because we talked about our travel schedules

00:18:11   and how we have a lot of things going on this summer

00:18:15   that have made the, our sort of standard,

00:18:17   including this episode,

00:18:18   our standard recording day and time for upgrade

00:18:21   kind of up in the air a lot during the summer.

00:18:24   This is actually gonna be one of those

00:18:26   fill-in episodes of upgrade.

00:18:27   It's gonna be a live episode,

00:18:30   recorded on the ninth that we'll post the next week.

00:18:33   So if you don't get a chance to go to Santa Clara

00:18:36   and see it live, you will get to hear that conversation

00:18:39   I have with some of the people who are there

00:18:42   on upgrade that week, that following week.

00:18:45   - So go check it out.

00:18:46   That's commanddconf.com.

00:18:48   There'll be a link in the show notes

00:18:49   'cause that's a really hard URL to say.

00:18:52   C-M-D-D-C-O-N-F.com.

00:18:55   Today's show is brought to you in part by our friends

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00:20:10   I love my Mac Walden clothing.

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00:20:30   out, going to work, travelling or just for everyday life. Listeners of this show can

00:20:34   get 20% off at mackweldon.com by using the code upgrade. Thank you so much to Mack Weldon

00:20:46   for their continued support of this show and Relay FM.

00:20:50   So Jason, we've been talking about iPads recently and after last week's episode you

00:20:54   said to me, "Oh, I forgot to mention about cellular connectivity on the iPad." So this

00:20:59   is a new thing to you, right?

00:21:01   Well, I mean, I have tried it out in limited, like, sandbox maneuver, like buying a monthly

00:21:07   pass or a weekly pass or a daily pass, because—and I did write a whole article about, well, you

00:21:14   know, the flexibility you get when you buy a cellular iPad is the—you have this ability

00:21:21   to use it or not, tether it. For $130, you're buying yourself a lot of insurance in terms

00:21:28   of where you can use it and the connectivity. Yes, you can tether with a phone. So I had

00:21:37   a cellular iPad. I've had it for quite a while. I've had the cellular 12.9 since the 12.9

00:21:42   Pro came out. And what I didn't have until a few weeks ago was an iPad Pro with a SIM

00:21:52   card in it from my phone carrier. So what happened was our existing cellular plan, we

00:22:00   I think three months in a row, we went over the data limit. And so for a relatively small

00:22:06   amount of money, as it turns out, we switched to a different plan with a much higher data

00:22:10   a limit. And as a part of that, I said, you know, while we're doing this, maybe I should

00:22:15   go on the website and order a SIM card from them and put my iPad on their plan.

00:22:20   So you have one of these pooled plans, right? Yes. My entire family is using a shared pool

00:22:27   of data. And so for $10 a month more, this is an AT&T plan for $10 a month more and don't

00:22:33   email me about carriers. I'm not interested. We use AT&T for some very specific reasons.

00:22:37   in fact, including the fact that no other carrier

00:22:41   essentially works at our house.

00:22:43   So yeah, anyway, so for $10 a month, the iPad,

00:22:47   my iPad is now, I mean, like literally they started,

00:22:51   for free they send me this SIM card in the mail,

00:22:54   it shows up two days later.

00:22:56   For an extra $10 a month charge, my iPad now,

00:22:58   I pop the SIM card in, it's now sharing that pool of data.

00:23:02   And that's very different than saying,

00:23:05   oh geez, I don't have any data right here.

00:23:07   Can I, or I don't have any wifi right here.

00:23:09   Can I tether to my phone?

00:23:11   Can I open up the cellular interface and go to T-Mobile

00:23:16   and buy a chunk of data for today?

00:23:21   Oh, they want me to put in my credit card.

00:23:24   I don't, oh, and it failed.

00:23:27   All right, that's happened to me, right?

00:23:28   Now, it's just literally, it's just working.

00:23:31   So we were driving up to the long weekend

00:23:35   on the 4th of July weekend, and I was in the back seat

00:23:38   and my daughter and my wife were in the front seats.

00:23:41   And this is the kind of time where I would open my iPhone

00:23:44   and like check Slack and Twitter and things like that

00:23:46   and email.

00:23:48   And I thought to myself, oh, let's get out my iPad

00:23:50   like I do when I'm at home,

00:23:51   'cause it's the same data pool.

00:23:53   And I was just sitting there using my iPad.

00:23:55   And at one point my wife noticed and she turned around

00:23:57   and she said, you love having that cellular data

00:24:00   in that iPad, don't you?

00:24:01   I said, "Yes, yes I do, I actually do."

00:24:04   Because again, could I have used my iPad

00:24:05   and tethered to my phone before?

00:24:07   Sure I could have, but did I ever?

00:24:09   No, I didn't because it was like,

00:24:11   "Oh, I'm not gonna get my iPad out

00:24:12   and tether it to the iPhone.

00:24:14   No, forget it, I'm just gonna use the iPhone here."

00:24:16   And that happened over the weekend too,

00:24:18   when we were traveling.

00:24:19   I was at the airport and they didn't have the free wifi,

00:24:24   they had the pay wifi and then we got on the plane,

00:24:27   but they were still boarding people

00:24:28   and I had my iPad would have dropped off a wifi network,

00:24:33   but it was still on the cellular network.

00:24:34   And it just, you know, this is the thing

00:24:39   that I didn't really get to experience before,

00:24:43   which is when all the data is pooled

00:24:45   and it's the same whether it's on your iPad

00:24:47   or on your iPhone, and you prefer the iPad

00:24:50   for certain things and you've got the iPad with you,

00:24:52   then you just don't worry about it anymore.

00:24:54   And I love that about it,

00:24:56   that $10 a month is worth it to me,

00:25:01   I've already seen, just to have that level of flexibility.

00:25:05   If I was paying more or paying as I went

00:25:09   and having to engage every time I wanted to use it

00:25:11   and sign up or buy credits or whatever,

00:25:13   I would feel different about it.

00:25:15   I will say this is not,

00:25:17   even though the iPad has an Apple SIM,

00:25:18   this is not the Apple SIM.

00:25:20   I got AT&T to send me a SIM first

00:25:22   because that was really easy and it was the SIM,

00:25:25   You basically, my carrier, I can just say,

00:25:27   "Send me a SIM for this tablet."

00:25:29   And they're like, "All right."

00:25:30   And then it's already on the account.

00:25:32   Literally all I did was pop it in.

00:25:33   And it goes, "Boop, AT&T, you're ready to go."

00:25:35   It knows who I am, it knows the account, I'm done.

00:25:38   The other thing is AT&T does something in the US

00:25:40   that's terrible, which is if you use an Apple SIM with AT&T,

00:25:44   it's permanently locked to AT&T from then on,

00:25:47   which is not cool.

00:25:49   And it's the only carrier, I believe, that does that.

00:25:52   Which means, yeah, if you've got one of those software SIMs

00:25:55   in the new iPad Pro, you can do it, but at that point, the software Apple SIM is locked

00:26:01   permanently and if you want another carrier, you have to use the SIM tray again, which

00:26:05   is why there's still a SIM card slot, even though there's an Apple SIM, because, yeah,

00:26:10   boo. So, anyway, that's my story.

00:26:12   So, I was going to say, I love Cell Connection on my travel iPad because it has an Apple

00:26:17   SIM in it, right? And for that reason, it makes a lot of sense to me because no matter

00:26:22   or where I am, I can just get a data plan.

00:26:25   So I've used it in Europe, I've used it in the US,

00:26:28   I've used it in the UK.

00:26:29   It takes a little while, it is slow,

00:26:31   that process of signing it up as you say,

00:26:33   and it can be a bit frustrating.

00:26:35   But I only ever get cell connection in the iPad

00:26:39   that I take out with me,

00:26:41   because I then have the flexibility

00:26:43   of being able to get connections wherever I am

00:26:46   without needing to go and buy a SIM card.

00:26:49   So I've been a big fan of it in the smaller of my iPads.

00:26:52   I got it in my 10.5, which is I'm pretty sure the iPad

00:26:56   that I'm gonna take with me on my long trip this year.

00:26:58   And I'll be able to just get as much data as I need

00:27:00   whenever I need it, and I really like it for that.

00:27:03   So it's perfect for me for traveling.

00:27:05   But if I had a situation like yours

00:27:07   where I had this like poor data plan, multiple SIMs,

00:27:09   I would totally have that when I'm at home as well.

00:27:11   Like that's great, like that's a great thing.

00:27:13   But with the amount of international travel I do,

00:27:15   the Apple SIM is perfect.

00:27:17   Like it's fantastic.

00:27:18   I absolutely love it.

00:27:20   And before the Apple SIM,

00:27:22   cellular connection in my iPad

00:27:23   never really made sense for me.

00:27:25   - Right, well in fact, I have on my old 12.9,

00:27:30   I have an Apple SIM,

00:27:31   it shipped with, the 12.9 shipped with a physical Apple SIM.

00:27:35   And on the new models, they have the Apple SIM built in.

00:27:38   And what that means is,

00:27:39   if you're in a situation like mine, on the new models,

00:27:42   you've got an AT&T SIM in the slot,

00:27:45   and you've got the Apple SIM.

00:27:47   and you can travel somewhere and you want a new carrier,

00:27:50   you use the Apple SIM.

00:27:51   - Well, that's interesting. - On the older model,

00:27:53   you would pop in an Apple SIM or somebody else's SIM,

00:27:56   which is a little less fun.

00:27:57   - That's cool though, that you've had the option.

00:28:00   - Yeah, well, and like I said,

00:28:02   I think that's the reason that the SIM card is there

00:28:03   is that they know that some carriers, AT&T,

00:28:07   might lock that Apple SIM never to be unlocked again.

00:28:12   So you gotta have both. - That's so dumb.

00:28:14   - It is, I don't know why they're doing it.

00:28:16   It's so hostile.

00:28:17   So egregious, like how dare you?

00:28:19   And nobody else is doing it.

00:28:20   Like they could say, oh, well, it's a security issue

00:28:22   or whatever, but it's like nobody else does that,

00:28:24   just AT&T as far as I can tell.

00:28:26   So maybe there are other mean carriers in other countries,

00:28:29   but my understanding is in the US that it's AT&T

00:28:31   that locks the Apple SIM.

00:28:32   Makes it forever in AT&T SIM.

00:28:34   Similar thing, I bought an unlocked iPhone

00:28:38   direct from Apple and EE locked that iPhone to them.

00:28:46   My carrier EE locked it, like they locked it to them.

00:28:48   Um, and I didn't know until I was already in America and trying to use another sim

00:28:55   that they'd done that.

00:28:56   And I remember I was, I don't know if I've ever been more mad a company than I was for

00:29:04   this because it was just like, this is my phone that I bought, but yet you think you

00:29:10   can lock it.

00:29:11   Like, I don't understand why you think that that's a thing.

00:29:13   And then I had to wait a week for them to do it.

00:29:15   But by the time I was at home, I made them pay me not a lot of compensation money, but

00:29:22   the over £150 that I did in roaming data, I didn't pay.

00:29:26   I took that complaint like further and further up the chain of command in their customer

00:29:32   service team until they wiped it for me.

00:29:33   Because I was like, there's no way I'm paying this.

00:29:35   I'm not paying this.

00:29:36   Like I had a SIM.

00:29:37   You wouldn't let me use it because for some reason you thought that it was okay to just

00:29:40   lock my phone that I paid for outright with my own money to your network when you have

00:29:45   absolutely no rights to do that in my opinion. Whether they do or they don't they ended up

00:29:51   bending to my angry will. So yeah I think that's incredibly obnoxious of a company to

00:29:59   think that they can do that. So I'm happy that Apple are seeing through this. I mean

00:30:04   honestly, honestly I wish that the iPhone could have an Apple sim. Like I wish they

00:30:09   could find a way to do that, I would be so happy if they could do that.

00:30:15   So as well as your revelations for, I've got such a big smile on my face right now, as

00:30:21   well as your revelations with cell connectivity on your iPad, over this weekend you sent me

00:30:28   a message and you asked me for my recommendations for to-do apps.

00:30:35   Now this has been a long running theme of the show in which I cannot fathom how you

00:30:41   are able to run all the things that you run being the busy man that you are using just

00:30:46   a calendar and the occasional reminder. Like you use no to do application, no like OmniFocus

00:30:53   or Todoist or things or anything like that. And really the reminders list that you have

00:30:57   is not like a huge thing. It's more like just a list of like a checklist of stuff that you

00:31:02   might want to do in the future, right? Like you have an idea for a thing, for an article

00:31:06   and you put it in reminders, if I remember correctly.

00:31:09   >> Yes. >> And so you sent me this message and you

00:31:13   asked about a to-do app. So I guess first off, what made this change in your mind?

00:31:22   >> Well, so I had a moment and some of this has to do with what, you know, what the business

00:31:27   of what we do is we think about how we use technology, right? That's part of what we

00:31:33   do. I don't go through life using my computer. Ideally, I don't go through life using my

00:31:39   computer, using my smartphone, using my tablet, right? And just kind of do my stuff, right?

00:31:45   I'm always working on this other level, which is, why did I do that? Why do I feel this

00:31:52   way? What's the motivating factor for behaving this way? Like, I try to analyze what I'm

00:31:56   doing because behind that is this idea of like, if this is an interesting insight, a

00:32:02   moment of insight, I should file this away because I probably could write about it at

00:32:06   some point. So that happens. That's a meta level on which I use technology that is because

00:32:12   I write about technology. So yeah, like that's impossible for me to get a new device and

00:32:16   just start using it for fun. I also have to open an Apple note and start writing down

00:32:23   all of my thoughts about what it s like to use it, right? Like, you know, if I get a

00:32:27   new phone, the first thing I do is go to Notes and start a new note that says like iPhone

00:32:33   7 impressions and then I just start writing stuff down as it s happening to me, you know?

00:32:37   Yeah. Yeah. I literally have it happen where I do something or I have this moment where

00:32:43   I observe somebody in my family doing something and I m like, let me write that down. In my

00:32:47   reminder story ideas list, that s where I put it because it s like that s kind of an

00:32:51   interesting insight because you're looking for those insights anywhere you can. It's

00:32:55   a little bit like a writer of fiction having an idea and writing down their story idea.

00:33:01   It's very much like that where something will bubble up, you notice something. And if you

00:33:05   don't do this for a living, you don't have to do that, right? But I have to do that.

00:33:09   You have to do that because we talk about this stuff. So I had a moment last week where

00:33:15   I was going away for the weekend and had a bunch of stuff to do as I always do. And I

00:33:23   had a moment where I thought, wow, I have a real collection of things that need to be

00:33:27   done in a certain order. And I thought, you know, I'm not going to use a calendar to track

00:33:35   these things. Like there are some of them were on a calendar because it's like, you

00:33:40   need to post this on this day, or this is when you record this podcast, but there was

00:33:44   a collection of items. And I thought, "This is why people have to-do lists, is because

00:33:49   there's a collection of items." And while sometimes in my life I felt like I don't really

00:33:53   have a collection of items, I just have a series of milestones that happen every week.

00:33:59   In this moment, I felt like I could see the collection of items that needed to be on a

00:34:04   to-do list, which I normally can't see. So that was the moment where I said, "Oh, well,

00:34:10   If I'm ever gonna try a to-do list, this is probably the right time because I have things

00:34:16   to put on a to-do list.

00:34:18   So then I send you a Slack message and I said, "Okay, Myke, what should I use for my to-do

00:34:22   list?"

00:34:23   So are you feeling any increased pressure as well that's making you go down this route,

00:34:31   do you think?

00:34:32   Or...

00:34:33   I think not.

00:34:36   I think this is mostly because, you know, talking, talking about summer again, I think

00:34:43   that my usual schedule is not being, is not consistent right now because it's summer and

00:34:56   there's lots of people taking trips and things.

00:34:59   And so there's many moving parts.

00:35:01   And so things are sliding around on the schedule and there are things that, that in my brain

00:35:05   I could be like, "Oh, it's about the time of the month when I do this," or "On this

00:35:09   day I do this," that suddenly like, "No, you have to do it earlier," or "You can't do it

00:35:13   now, you have to do it later," or things like that, where there's enough stuff that's not

00:35:18   happening like a well-oiled machine that it's starting to get messier. And so for me, that's

00:35:22   sort of the pressure.

00:35:23   And your conception of time changes, which makes it more tricky to use and remember the

00:35:28   calendar, you know, because if you're on vacation or you're traveling, it can mess around with

00:35:33   kind of your internal clock a bit.

00:35:35   we're talking on a Tuesday but I know for the rest of this day I'm gonna think

00:35:39   it's Monday because I talked to you on Monday morning and we're talking on

00:35:42   Tuesday morning because I spent Monday morning in San Diego and that was great

00:35:45   but here we are that's gonna mess me up maybe for the rest of the week right but

00:35:51   certainly today because I'm gonna my brains gonna be thinking it's Monday

00:35:54   when it's not and if I'm internalizing everything based on that I'm gonna be in

00:35:59   trouble so so in to do is I put in a bunch of those things that are like

00:36:03   that collection of things I needed to do last week and put them on dates and all that. And

00:36:11   then I made some recurring events to try and get ahead of some of the things that also

00:36:17   would be a good example of, well, like to plan for download. And this is a good example

00:36:21   where it's sort of day-based, and so I could put that again on a calendar, but it would

00:36:26   seem really dumb. But it's like on Tuesday I want to make sure that we are working on

00:36:31   the guests and make sure we've got guests slotted for download. And on Wednesday, I

00:36:35   want to make sure that we've got the topics ready for download. And Thursday, we record

00:36:39   the show. I'm not so worried about that. There'll be a time in my calendar for when we record.

00:36:44   But there are some milestones, Tuesday and Wednesday, every week to get us to Thursday.

00:36:49   And those aren't really calendar events, right? They're just, "On Tuesday, you should do this

00:36:55   so that you're ready on Thursday." And so I put those in too. And so that's what I'm

00:37:01   trying right now is to get that and see how that works for me.

00:37:07   And so from a system perspective, you're setting up projects and stuff like that?

00:37:13   I have not set up projects yet because that is a premium feature and I'm not yet using

00:37:17   the, I think there's a premium trial that I can try, which I may do now that I'm back

00:37:21   from my long weekend.

00:37:22   I might turn that on because I want to get the most out of that.

00:37:25   I like the idea of the projects because that's something you and I have talked about before

00:37:29   that actually intrigued me.

00:37:30   That was part of my intrigue here was the ability to say, "Here are all the steps

00:37:36   that need to happen when a project happens."

00:37:39   So that when I make a new project, it sort of creates all the items that need to happen

00:37:43   as a part of that project.

00:37:45   And when I need to do that, I will try that.

00:37:48   But I'm not quite there yet.

00:37:49   Your download project could be really interesting, right?

00:37:52   Because there's like a bunch of things that you have to do, and some of them you can't

00:37:54   do until other things are done, right?

00:37:56   there are some interesting parts in that which could be fun.

00:38:00   - It could be, I'm not sure it's that complicated.

00:38:02   Like I said, I feel like in some ways,

00:38:05   these are the milestones, which is get the guests,

00:38:07   get the topics, do the show.

00:38:09   And it's a weekly show, so really it's just

00:38:12   get the guests every week, pick the topics every week,

00:38:15   do the show every week.

00:38:16   It's three weekly to-dos essentially,

00:38:18   or two weekly to-dos and a calendar item

00:38:20   for when we schedule the recording, and that's it.

00:38:22   - Are you doing anything to categorize,

00:38:24   like to put the tasks into buckets?

00:38:27   - So I put, I did some categorization,

00:38:29   but I've gotta be honest,

00:38:30   the categorization feels like busy work to me.

00:38:32   And I sorta regret it,

00:38:34   and I think I'm gonna probably remove the categorization

00:38:37   because it's more work to categorize them.

00:38:39   This is when I used things several years ago,

00:38:41   I felt the same way,

00:38:42   which was it was fun to categorize things,

00:38:44   but I felt it was meaningless

00:38:45   because I'm never saying,

00:38:47   I'm not somebody who's like,

00:38:48   "Okay, I only wanna see what work I'm doing on X."

00:38:51   It's like, I have work to do.

00:38:53   it's comes from a bunch of different buckets.

00:38:54   I've got to do all of it.

00:38:56   So I feel no need to focus in on just show me

00:38:59   the relay stuff or just show me the incomparable stuff

00:39:01   or just show me the writing stuff.

00:39:03   I have to do all of them.

00:39:05   So I don't think that necessarily adds any value for me.

00:39:10   And that's something that I'm being wary of

00:39:11   as we've talked about.

00:39:12   Something I'm being wary of here is adding structure

00:39:15   like what you said about projects, like I can add structure

00:39:19   but if the structure doesn't give me any benefit,

00:39:22   I should not bother with it.

00:39:24   - Because this will be one of the things

00:39:26   that pushes you away from keeping it going.

00:39:29   - Exactly right, because the last thing I want

00:39:32   is to have that,

00:39:36   is to have all that stuff push me over the edge

00:39:41   of feeling like I'm doing more work

00:39:43   on maintaining my to-do list than I am doing the work.

00:39:47   - So I'll say, for as long as I used OmniFocus,

00:39:51   I never used any projects or anything like that.

00:39:53   When I switched to Todoist, I started doing it

00:39:55   and I'm happy that I do it now,

00:39:56   but the rest of my system is so baked in at this point

00:39:59   that adding that little bit of extra was fine for me.

00:40:02   But the reason I didn't do it was because I was concerned

00:40:05   for a long time that it would make it more frustrating

00:40:08   to add stuff in.

00:40:09   And from moving from Only Focus to Todoist,

00:40:12   it's way easier to add this stuff to Todoist,

00:40:14   which is why I started doing it anyway,

00:40:16   'cause you can just add it all in text

00:40:18   and the natural language picks it all up.

00:40:21   Right, there it just like, you put like a little hash symbol

00:40:23   and then you start typing the name of your project

00:40:25   and it's pretty filled for you, right?

00:40:27   So that was why I started doing it there.

00:40:29   And I'm happy I do it for the benefits that I get,

00:40:31   but I wouldn't necessarily recommend it

00:40:33   if you're just starting out.

00:40:35   Like if you think it's gonna be a friction point for you,

00:40:38   then don't do it because it might then stop you

00:40:41   from keeping it going.

00:40:44   So I've recommended you try to do this

00:40:46   because one, it's an app that I use every single day

00:40:48   and I really like it, but also it's free.

00:40:52   Like you originally said to me,

00:40:53   oh, should I try OmniFocus?

00:40:54   And I mean, I can't recommend that you do that

00:40:57   because it's expensive to get in the door

00:41:00   if you're only gonna use it for a week, right?

00:41:02   'Cause it's all paid up front and right.

00:41:04   I don't know if the OmniGroup have trials,

00:41:07   they might have trials now,

00:41:09   like using the subscription system,

00:41:11   but I don't know off the top of my head,

00:41:13   but really like as well,

00:41:14   I think that for the reasons that I switched from OmniFocus to Todoist, I think you would

00:41:19   enjoy all the stuff that you can do with their API, like tying it into stuff like Zapier

00:41:24   and IFTTT. If you get involved in this, I think you would get a lot of use out of that,

00:41:30   even if it is just tying it to your calendar, which you might find really useful. So if

00:41:36   the incomparable event is on your calendar, add a "edit the incomparable task to Todoist".

00:41:44   I can imagine that you might enjoy some of that sort of stuff. So that was why I recommended

00:41:48   Todoist to you.

00:41:49   All right, maybe, but again, I'm going to approach everything with like, I want this

00:41:54   to be as minimal effort as possible. And that goes back to, I feel like this is almost turning

00:41:58   into Cortex at this point, but I will say that, that for me, I'm putting on my maybe

00:42:05   CGP Grey, persnickety hat a little bit right now, which is, there is a level beyond which

00:42:13   it's not worth putting in the effort because it is wasteful

00:42:16   and I'm trying to be really attentive to the idea

00:42:20   that just because I can do something

00:42:22   doesn't mean that it will actually save me any time.

00:42:24   And it may be that my right to do list application

00:42:28   and system is incredibly minimal,

00:42:32   or it may be that I start minimal

00:42:34   and then there's a moment where I realize,

00:42:35   oh, you know what, I'm doing double entry here.

00:42:38   And if I can make this set up to do single entry,

00:42:40   that will actually save me time.

00:42:42   but I'm just very wary of falling down that pit

00:42:45   of becoming somebody who is a person

00:42:49   who maintains a to-do list and gets things done

00:42:52   because they're on the to-do list,

00:42:53   and that's not the point.

00:42:54   The to-do list is meant there to enable me

00:42:57   to do what I need to do, not the other way around.

00:42:59   And I do see that as a hole that people I know

00:43:04   have fallen into, and it doesn't work for me.

00:43:07   - I 100% agree with that.

00:43:08   And again, I'm not suggesting you do any of these things,

00:43:11   But if you're asking me for a recommendation, I would recommend Todoist because I want to

00:43:17   make sure that you are future-proofed if you decide that you want to pursue it further.

00:43:22   This is one of the reasons.

00:43:23   If you decide you want to continue down this route, then I recommend Todoist now because

00:43:29   it has those tools in case you want them in the future.

00:43:32   I have some real-time follow-up from CGP Grey who says, "Start with paper and pen.

00:43:40   You don't know what you need in an app until you've used the most basic of basic systems.

00:43:44   No, take my advice on this one.

00:43:46   [laughter]

00:43:47   Alright, don't listen to him.

00:43:49   Because I know--

00:43:50   Wait, are you steering me away from pens, Myke?

00:43:51   Myke, are you steering me away from using a pen?

00:43:54   I want you to use a to-do system.

00:43:56   I know you don't like paper and pen, so I recommend to-doists to you, right?

00:44:01   Alright.

00:44:02   Now, I know I had a-- because you invoked his name, I had a fear that he was listening

00:44:07   to this right now.

00:44:08   [laughter]

00:44:09   name of the appears. Don't you know what the old stories, the ancient stories about Gray?

00:44:13   Some follow up which he can, I may be out there somewhere in the live world.

00:44:18   Who knows?

00:44:19   Because you said that, you know, putting on your Gray Pusnickety hat, he is as much as

00:44:23   me in the idea of automating this stuff, right? Because the idea being, it's the double entry

00:44:27   thing, if it's on your calendar and your to-do app can actually add it to your list, he's

00:44:33   sending me messages now, I can have it do that.

00:44:35   - I get that.

00:44:36   I just, I had my little internal voice of Gray say,

00:44:40   you know, what you, because when I think of him,

00:44:42   one of the things I think about him and it's trade I like,

00:44:44   is that he's very adamant about certain things.

00:44:47   Like he's the kind of person who's like,

00:44:49   no, if it can't do this, I'm not going to do it.

00:44:52   And I, that's sort of in the back of my mind about this.

00:44:55   It's like, I need to have that kind of hard rule of like,

00:44:58   it needs to serve me, I need to not serve it.

00:45:02   It needs to be as little work as possible

00:45:04   and gain benefit from me.

00:45:06   And I am not one of these, look,

00:45:08   if you're somebody who likes playing with productivity apps,

00:45:11   - I do. - More power to you.

00:45:13   I hate it, I don't want them in my life.

00:45:16   I only wanna use them at a remove

00:45:20   just to do the barest essential for me.

00:45:23   But I agree with you, I think pencil and paper

00:45:25   or pen and paper would not be a great choice for me

00:45:29   because I have so many recurring events

00:45:31   and I wanna be able to cross them off.

00:45:33   and I don't want to keep making a new list where I just write the same things from the

00:45:36   previous week again, right? So for me, having it be digital just so that I can say, look,

00:45:42   here are these steps in doing download and they're weekly and that is something that's

00:45:47   more effectively done on the computer than on paper, I think.

00:45:51   Yeah, I recommend pen and paper for a lot of people that are starting at this point,

00:45:56   but like I just don't think that it is the best way for you personally. I mean, plus

00:46:01   as well, you know, when it's digital it's everywhere, it's on all your devices, right,

00:46:04   you don't have to do anything.

00:46:06   It's true, although I was a little reluctant about that, I have to say, because so much

00:46:09   of what I do is on my Mac that I have put Todoist on my iPhone and my iPad, and that's

00:46:16   good, but I was reluctant because it's sort of like, I kind of want it in the context

00:46:21   of sitting down at my desk and doing work. The reality is I've had a couple, well, the

00:46:25   reality is that I checked a couple final things as done on Friday afternoon and then shut

00:46:31   down my computer and the shutdown preceded the sinking of the data to Todoist. So over

00:46:36   the weekend I get this email from Todoist saying, "You have two things you haven't done!"

00:46:41   Interesting. "Panic!" And I'm like, "I did those things, what are you talking about?"

00:46:45   And then I downloaded Todoist on my iPhone so I could check those boxes again and be

00:46:50   like, "Silence. Be done." I say straight up, "Turn the email reminders off." Yeah, yeah.

00:46:56   But here's the thing that is interesting is that having it on my phone or my iPad does

00:47:00   allow me to go, one, it's like, "Oh yeah, do I need to do that today? Oh, I do." And

00:47:05   it also allows me to be like, "Oh, you know what I need to do?" and put it in right then.

00:47:09   It's the quick entry that makes it really useful.

00:47:11   So I kind of want it not in my life when I'm away from my working, but just like writing

00:47:15   down something to remember it later about like, "Here's an interesting story idea,"

00:47:19   having a thing where you realize you are owed something that you haven't put in your personal

00:47:23   tracker yet, and putting it down so that you can forget about it and know that it's going

00:47:27   pop up when you need it. I think that's good.

00:47:34   You know, my other criticism, and maybe it's something that this thing can do, but my other

00:47:37   criticism of it is that I have internally this concept of things that are due on a certain

00:47:42   day, but need to be addressed. Imagine this, like, you have to turn in your term. My kids

00:47:49   struggle with this. Kids, oh boy. Where it's like, you've got a huge project. It's going

00:47:54   to take, let's say, three full days after school to do. Four full days after school

00:48:00   to do. And what do my kids do? They're like, "Oh, that project is due Friday." And then

00:48:04   Thursday night they're like, "Oh my God, there's so much to do!" And it's like, "Yeah, this

00:48:09   is not the time to start the project. You should have started it sooner." So for me,

00:48:12   I'll have that where I'll like, I have a story to do, but this story's going to take more

00:48:15   time. It's going to take a week to do it. It's going to take several days to do it.

00:48:20   So I need to be reminded earlier that it's due. And that's a challenge that I have had,

00:48:27   at least in starting to use something like Todoist, where what I really want to do is

00:48:29   say this story is due on this day, tell me about it sooner. And its reaction seems to

00:48:36   be like, I'll tell you about it the day it's due. And it's like, okay, well then it's on

00:48:40   me to look ahead and see what's due several days out. You're a computer. You should be

00:48:44   able to tell me a week beforehand or five days beforehand, you have this thing that

00:48:50   needs to be done then that you need to start now. And it doesn't seem to have that conception.

00:48:57   There are ways in which you can set up different types of reminders to occur at different intervals

00:49:03   before but you kind of have to do that to the tasks. And you can also set up defaults

00:49:08   but they're not like multiple days before, it would be like 30 minutes before or an hour

00:49:12   before. Like there's a way to do some of this stuff, but maybe not to the level at which

00:49:17   you would like.

00:49:18   The way, the way, other way to do it is to say this story is due Friday is a reminder

00:49:22   for, is a to-do for Wednesday, which is dumb, but that's a way to do it. It's just, it's

00:49:27   something that I've come into where, where the concept of to-do items doesn't necessarily

00:49:31   follow from some of the stuff I do. Or you're breaking it up into start working on it now

00:49:36   and then finish working on it then, which is not quite the same.

00:49:39   Yeah, like what you can do, there is like a little alarm clock button and you can click that and you

00:49:44   can add reminders to tasks which can be like a week in advance or something and there's probably

00:49:49   ways to do this via their entry system, like their text entry system where you just type a command

00:49:54   something out a week before but yeah there's maybe not the flexibility to to do that automatically.

00:50:00   I mean one thing that I do and I think a lot of people that use these apps do to take advantage

00:50:04   of like the next seven days thing. I mean, so I spend quite, I spend an amount of time

00:50:09   every day. And again, this is very system heavy, I will agree, but I'm just saying like,

00:50:13   just so you know how I work my systems. I spend quite a lot of time in the seven day

00:50:19   thing, reviewing what's coming up, moving things around as necessary, picking off tasks

00:50:23   that can be done in advance, that kind of thing. But this again, this is very, this

00:50:28   is very late into you having a system, I think, before you would start thinking about it in

00:50:33   this way. The best thing for you to be doing right now is just to be putting things in

00:50:37   as they're coming to you, seeing how you're reminded, and refining if you're going to

00:50:41   turn this into a thing that you want to use in the long term.

00:50:44   Well, we'll see how it goes. I don't want to get anybody's hopes up. I have done this

00:50:49   before, and generally they go unused and abandoned in short order.

00:50:53   Which means it's not for you, and that's fine.

00:50:55   Yeah, I'm giving it a go.

00:50:56   I'm just pleased you're trying, honestly.

00:50:58   Yeah.

00:50:59   I worry about you Jason because I just don't understand. As I said it before,

00:51:05   like you're such a busy man, you're only getting busier. I just can't, I just think it can't be

00:51:13   good to keep all that stuff mostly floating out in the world like waiting for you to be like,

00:51:19   "Oh, it's Wednesday, I've got to do..." You know, I have found to have this system which I know has

00:51:27   got the stuff in, it just makes me feel better. And a lot of people I know are this way, you

00:51:31   might not be wired that way. And that's cool, because like, if you can deal with it your

00:51:35   way, like do with it your way. But like, I'm just hoping that this makes your working life

00:51:40   more comfortable in a way that you hadn't imagined yet. And that will make me very happy.

00:51:44   Yeah. And we'll see. I think, like I said, the reason that the calendar thing happens

00:51:51   is not because I am a lunatic who thinks that I can just make a bunch of events in all day

00:51:57   events in my calendar for every single item I need to do. That's not really it, but it

00:52:02   stems from the fact that a lot of the things I need to do are literally "be here at this

00:52:07   time" or "do this thing" I mean again, I do have some of those like "post this thing on

00:52:11   this day" it's calendar related but it's also what to do. So trying to make it, trying to

00:52:16   back out of that a little bit is one of the things that I'm hoping to at least try here

00:52:20   so that instead of looking at my calendar and saying "oh yes that thing is due next

00:52:24   Wednesday because there's an all day event that says it's due next Wednesday because

00:52:28   it's like a posting schedule. I put in something that backs it out and says make sure this

00:52:32   thing is ready to go. And you know that's so it's it's can I get those things to work

00:52:36   in concert with one another and there was something nice about and this is why I was

00:52:40   driven to do this the that next seven days view of being able to say I realize I need

00:52:45   to do this I don't need to do it right now but I do need to do it by this date and putting

00:52:49   it in the list so I can see it's coming up, but not what I have to do today so that I

00:52:54   do get that satisfaction of checking those boxes at the end of the day or as I go through

00:52:59   the day and saying, "I did all the things I needed to do today." But I want to be

00:53:03   wary about it taking too much time because that's not my goal. It's not a video game

00:53:08   that I play. It is just a blunt tool to try and get me to stay on track.

00:53:14   And that is 100% the right attitude to take.

00:53:17   If you have enjoyed this discussion and you do not listen to either Cortex or Free Agents

00:53:22   or Mac Power Users on Relay FM, there may be some shows that you may enjoy adding to

00:53:28   your list because they're shows that approach working and process and tools and the way

00:53:35   that we use them.

00:53:36   So there's a handful of different show suggestions for you if this type of thing is of interest.

00:53:40   All right, I think it's Ask Upgrade time.

00:53:42   But first, let me take a moment.

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00:54:46   This is where you'll find out more and claim your free month.

00:54:49   Thank you so much to Encapsular for the continued support of this show and Relay FM.

00:54:53   Alright, Jason Snell, our first question this week comes from Dave.

00:54:58   Dave asked, with the proposed higher prices for the next iPhone, would it make sense if

00:55:04   AirPods came in the box?

00:55:06   What are your thoughts?

00:55:07   I don't know, I have to say I had never thought about this before, but if you're

00:55:11   gonna make a high-end iPhone that has, that costs a lot more money but is super

00:55:16   awesome and the like the best most cutting-edge thing Apple can provide, if

00:55:22   they, if you got like a jet black iPhone 8 or iPhone Pro with jet black AirPods

00:55:29   in the box, I don't know, that's actually a really fun idea. I'm not sure Apple

00:55:34   would do it just because those people have a lot of money and why would you

00:55:37   take an extra $150 out of their pocket in addition to their iPhone, but it's a fun idea

00:55:43   of saying this is the maxed out, totally awesomest iPhone ever, but they probably won't do it

00:55:50   because if you've got enough money to buy the high end iPhone, you've got enough money

00:55:54   to buy AirPods 2.

00:55:58   I think that this is the only time that it has ever made sense to bundle AirPods, right?

00:56:05   there is a potential high price but I still don't think it's gonna happen.

00:56:10   I think that this idea makes sense right now because we haven't seen the iPhone

00:56:16   so like giving it that high price tag we can justify it in our minds by saying

00:56:23   oh we get AirPods as well. Because I expect that this phone will tell

00:56:29   all these Apple will try to make it tell such a good story that will pay whatever

00:56:33   whatever the price is. And that they won't need to put AirPods in the box because the

00:56:38   phone's going to be so desirable that we'll pay whatever it's going to be. And then they

00:56:42   continue to make extra money. There's a couple of other thoughts I had on this. AirPods are

00:56:46   already hard enough for Apple to make. If they continue to have issues with production

00:56:51   of AirPods, they're not going to start holding up iPhones. And they're also struggling to

00:56:55   just sell enough of them anyway. So to make enough of them to sell, I should say. So why

00:57:00   I cut out like millions and put them right in the box?

00:57:04   - Your item in our, not to read verbatim

00:57:07   from the notes that we use to do the show,

00:57:08   but your item is perfect,

00:57:10   which is Apple doesn't need to put them in the box

00:57:11   so they won't.

00:57:12   That's it, that's exactly it.

00:57:14   Why do it?

00:57:15   And you're right.

00:57:16   Then you mean you have to have enough AirPods

00:57:18   to put in the box, even if people don't want them.

00:57:20   And bottom line, if Apple wants to sell you AirPods

00:57:24   and they want to sell you one.

00:57:26   But it's a fun idea.

00:57:27   I like that.

00:57:28   I like the fun idea. - Oh yeah.

00:57:29   like the super special edition special box iPhone that comes with all of the

00:57:35   goodies but I don't I don't think so. Including AirPods that you can't buy right

00:57:39   like black ones. Like I said the black ones yeah oh yeah no if you're gonna do

00:57:43   it if you're gonna do it you see all that you sell the black it's the black

00:57:47   iPhone Pro it only comes in black it's jet black it's got jet black AirPods

00:57:50   it's got jet black just like AirPods not EarPods but AirPods it's got a jet

00:57:56   black charger, jet black cables and it probably comes with both a USB-C and a

00:58:01   USB-A cable right and you just you just it is the edition right.

00:58:06   It almost reminds me of the original iPhone right the original iPhone came with tons

00:58:10   of stuff in the box. You got like a dock and everything right like it was

00:58:15   just like it felt like more of a big thing and I expect that they might go

00:58:20   down some of this route right with some of those other things that you mentioned

00:58:23   But I I don't think air pods will be one of them

00:58:25   I think we're multiple years away before air pods are included in the box one day

00:58:30   I believe they will but I don't think we're close to that day yet

00:58:32   Okay, no partly asked Jason and I wonder if you have any information about this from

00:58:39   the

00:58:41   the device that you bumped into somewhere in

00:58:43   San Jose well home pods be good for home cinema setups. Do you know anything about this? I?

00:58:52   I know enough to say no based on what my understanding is because it's a mono speaker with some different

00:59:00   speakers that try to separate things out based on frequency in order to feel like it fills

00:59:06   the room.

00:59:07   So if by good you mean can I pair it with an Apple TV over Bluetooth and have it play

00:59:13   my audio from my Apple TV?

00:59:20   maybe but Apple has said nothing about trying to make this into something that

00:59:25   would be considered a home theater or you know TV related thing and it's not

00:59:30   gonna like connect to your other devices I think so I I'm sure somebody will hook

00:59:37   an Apple TV up to a home pod and a TV screen and use it that way but I don't

00:59:44   think this is how Apple intends it to be used and it's not going to be able to

00:59:48   generate, again, could they use those speakers to try to generate some

00:59:52   directionality? They could, but when I asked the sand people, the Jawas who

00:59:58   were standing in the secluded glade on Tatooine about stereo versus mono,

01:00:03   what they said was, you know, basically it's mono. They're not trying to

01:00:09   take the stereo signal and do directionality with it. That might change

01:00:12   because I think it's all happening in the software, and they do have multiple

01:00:15   speakers in that pod, but I don't think that's what they're planning. They could get there.

01:00:20   It wouldn't shock me if down the road there was something that was, if this product does

01:00:26   well, that there was something that was a little bit more like the Sonos Playbar kind

01:00:30   of thing where it was actually intended to integrate the HomePod experience into your

01:00:35   home or the ability to place multiple HomePods in different places for a different sort of

01:00:39   surround effect, but that seems a long way off.

01:00:42   Our next question comes from Todd, last name withheld.

01:00:46   Should I do anything special with my photos.app library or on any of my devices

01:00:53   before turning on iCloud Photo Library for the first time?

01:00:56   Um, I think... Hi Todd. Aloha.

01:01:01   Um, I think you don't need to, although it's always good to have a backup of your photo library,

01:01:08   right? You should have a backup of your photo library.

01:01:11   So if you've got a backup of it, I think you're doing okay.

01:01:13   I don't think iCloud Photo Library is going to destroy your library.

01:01:16   I would say you turn it on and make sure that, um, that it's set to keep all your

01:01:20   photos locally, at least at the start, and then let it sync.

01:01:23   And I think it'll be fine, but I will just say more generally, um, always have a

01:01:28   backup.

01:01:29   Like I always had a backup on an external drive or a different computer in my

01:01:32   photos library, because you don't want to lose those photos.

01:01:35   And, and, you know, you just, you don't ever want to have put yourself in a

01:01:38   a situation where there's only one device that has your photo library on it.

01:01:42   So, but I don't think you need to do anything special. Just make sure you've got a backup

01:01:47   and then flip the switch.

01:01:49   Jim asked, "Should I reformat my external drive I use for Time Machine backups to the

01:01:54   new APFS? Will Time Machine backups run faster?"

01:01:58   I think, I think what we know about High Sierra is that they're not making any of these changes

01:02:07   right now in Time Machine, I would not be surprised if it happens eventually, right?

01:02:14   I would not be surprised if Time Machine backups run are dramatically improved by APFS someday,

01:02:26   and it might not even be in next year's release. It could even be in an interim release where

01:02:33   they turn that on. Like, they don't want to do it now. They're going to get APFS out there

01:02:36   on the Mac now and then they're going to do a Time Machine update that is not

01:02:40   necessarily a part of what comes after High Sierra. So I think it will

01:02:45   happen, it's inevitable, because APFS appears to be basically built for it for

01:02:49   those who don't know and don't listen to Accidental Tech Podcast and haven't

01:02:52   talked about file systems.

01:02:54   Ding! The idea here is that Time Machine does a lot of weird stuff with hard links

01:03:02   on a hard drive in order to reference files that didn't change, and there's a

01:03:05   bunch of stuff in APFS including these instant snapshots that basically let the file system

01:03:11   say these files are the same as these files. They're the same and they don't have to deal

01:03:18   with it so there's not as much churning on the disk for stuff like that. It only tracks

01:03:21   what's changed. So I think it does have some potential advantages there and it has a lot

01:03:28   of potential advantages for on-device time machine that they are building in now where

01:03:32   in terms of tracking changes in your files in the short term. But for running on a backup,

01:03:41   the answer is not yet, but maybe someday. I wouldn't go ahead and jump to APFS on your

01:03:46   backup drive now, because as far as I have heard, it doesn't do anything yet.

01:03:51   Yeah, I don't think you can do it. So on Connected this week, Steven gave a complete overview

01:03:58   of High Sierra, as he's seen it so far.

01:04:01   Hi, Sierra.

01:04:02   Hi, Sierra.

01:04:03   We were talking about Time Machine

01:04:04   and it seems like from what he was saying,

01:04:06   it will back up stuff from APFS drives,

01:04:10   but it will, like from volumes,

01:04:12   but it will back them up to HFS+ still.

01:04:14   Like it won't back them up to APFS,

01:04:16   so I don't actually think you can.

01:04:18   Interesting, yeah.

01:04:19   So this is the thing is, my guess is that yeah,

01:04:22   they're building a version of Time Machine

01:04:24   that takes full advantage of APFS

01:04:26   because it is like APFS was built in part

01:04:29   to do better Time Machine backups, right?

01:04:31   it's very clear that that was one of the ideas behind this whole thing. And they will get

01:04:35   there, but they're not there yet.

01:04:37   I think that's the right move.

01:04:39   So just wait.

01:04:40   Yeah, just wait. There's no time.

01:04:41   They will be -- time machine backups, I think, are going to be awesome once APFS and time

01:04:46   machine work together. I think it's going to be a much more efficient system than the

01:04:49   hack that's in place now where, you know, the time machine backup starts up and you

01:04:52   hear the disks start to go click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click, click,

01:04:55   click, click, click. All right. Not so much anymore. That'll be good.

01:05:00   Michael has asked, I've been wearing a steel Apple Watch since the launch but I've only

01:05:04   ever met one other person with one. Have you seen many in the wild?

01:05:08   So I would say, even at WWDC, only a handful of the steel. I see way more of the various

01:05:16   models of sport. I think it's clear that that one is the most popular, like the aluminium

01:05:21   ones and all the different aluminium colours. And I don't think that it's necessarily just

01:05:25   for price. I expect it's for price for many people. But like for me and for many people

01:05:30   that I know, it's a taste thing. Like, I just prefer the way the aluminium ones look. And

01:05:36   I know a bunch of people that have the steel ones. Steven has one. I think Federico did.

01:05:41   I don't know if he still does.

01:05:43   Lauren has one. Lauren's Apple Watch is a stainless.

01:05:46   And I guess I know it's like a different thing, different taste thing, but I would say that

01:05:49   I definitely see way more of the aluminium than the steel.

01:05:54   Yeah, oh sure, because it's cheaper and it looks great. I mean, mine's aluminum and I

01:06:01   think it's beautiful. I have the aluminum black in my series too, and I love it. I really

01:06:06   love it. Yeah, when I was getting Laura in her Apple watch, I asked her to like, we looked

01:06:11   at the Apple store and like, what did she like in terms of just the look of it, because

01:06:18   it was basically a birthday present for her.

01:06:20   And I wanted to, I knew that if it was just on price,

01:06:26   she would get the aluminum one

01:06:28   because the stainless one costs more.

01:06:31   And, but so I tried to take it out of the equation

01:06:34   and just sort of gauge her feelings about the look of it.

01:06:37   And she really liked the stainless.

01:06:39   I would not have bought the stainless for myself

01:06:42   if price were no object, honestly,

01:06:44   because I don't like how it looks on me

01:06:47   as much as I like the black aluminum. But she liked the stainless so we got the stainless

01:06:52   for her. But I think I would imagine that it's scales, you could probably do a chart

01:06:59   of sales if you were inside Apple in terms of stainless versus aluminum and it's probably

01:07:05   proportional to the price delta.

01:07:10   And finally today, Sana asked, "Would you want a future version of the 12.9 inch iPad

01:07:15   Pro to have a larger screen in the same physical size or a smaller body with the same screen

01:07:23   size. So basically we want the screen to go to the edges with the size being the same

01:07:28   or do we want the bezels to come in around the screen.

01:07:32   Imagine a bezel-less 12.9 iPad Pro. What do you imagine? The existing shape with the bezels

01:07:41   out and replaced by screen or the existing screen with the bezels pushed

01:07:46   in so the iPad is smaller. Mm-hmm. What do you think? Easy answer for me. I want

01:07:52   the dimensions of the iPad to be smaller without sacrificing the screen. A bigger

01:07:56   screen would be nice but my biggest problem with the 12.9 is that it's kind

01:08:01   of a load. It is a big thing and so for me I'm not gonna give up my 12.9

01:08:07   and switch to the 10.5 as nice as the 10.5 is. So I would love it if my 12.9 got a little

01:08:14   bit smaller.

01:08:16   I want the opposite.

01:08:19   I knew you would. I knew it.

01:08:22   I would want my 12.9 to stay the same size, even the same weight, but the screen to get

01:08:27   bigger. This is because I am the multi-pad person. I live the multi-pad lifestyle. I

01:08:33   have a home iPad and an outdoors iPad. So my outdoors iPad is the small one. And if

01:08:38   I'm going to have an iPad at home, I want it to be as big as it can be and still be

01:08:42   movable around the house. And so like a potential like, I don't know, like 14 inch, 15 inch,

01:08:47   maybe screen in the same part size, right, would be, oh my God, I would love it, right?

01:08:53   It would only be better for me. So that's where I would like to go. But if we got the

01:08:57   other version, I would also still be happy, right? Like I would also still be happy with

01:09:01   but my ideal situation would just be a bigger screen, because I would love that.

01:09:06   Yeah, makes sense. And I think that may be the more mainstream opinion, honestly. For me,

01:09:10   I want the bigger screen than the 10.5, but I would like it to be as compact as possible,

01:09:15   because it is a little bit... But I see the appeal of a larger screen. It's just for me,

01:09:19   I think I would go the other way. Okay, so after this break, we are going to talk about

01:09:25   Spider-Man Homecoming with an extra special mic at the movies, but before we do, let me take a

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01:11:41   Blue Apron, a better way to cook. So let the spoiler horn ring out.

01:11:48   We are about to talk about Spider-Man Homecoming, which I saw this weekend.

01:11:52   Jason, of course, has an episode of The Incomparable Up, which will undoubtedly be better than

01:11:58   whatever Spider-Man related nonsense I'm about to spew, because I haven't taken any notes

01:12:05   when watching the movie, as I would usually do during a mic at the movies, so this is

01:12:08   purely based upon me seeing this a couple of days ago.

01:12:11   But I just wanted to talk about some of the things that I was excited about.

01:12:15   I said this before on the show, Spider-Man is and has always been my favorite superhero.

01:12:20   I got Spider-Man fatigue with the Andrew Guy food Spider-Man movies. I just saw the first

01:12:25   one of them and I'd kind of, I'd seen it too many times by then and I was just getting

01:12:31   sad about it honestly because I love Spider-Man and I felt like he wasn't being treated well

01:12:36   enough. Because he's such a great hero, right? And appeals to so many people. One of the

01:12:43   of reasons that Sony picked them up and wouldn't let him go, right? And they kept trying to

01:12:47   do it because, you know, at least those first ones, the first ones with Tobey Maguire, they

01:12:52   were great, right? Like Spider-Man 1 and 2?

01:12:54   Yes. They were.

01:12:55   Really great movies. You know, I think really, you know, set the stage for the ability to

01:12:59   Marvel to do what they've done because these Spider-Man movies were such a success.

01:13:04   Those original Spider-Man movies, because we just did a podcast about, it's not out

01:13:10   about Batman Forever and Batman and Robin. And Batman and Robin came out like three years before

01:13:15   Spider-Man. This is Sam Raimi's Spider-Man. And Batman and Robin is literally like the stake

01:13:19   through the heart of superhero movies. And then Spider-Man is the reinvigoration of superhero

01:13:24   movies. And you could make a strong argument that Sam Raimi's Spider-Man is the movie that set the

01:13:31   template and kicked off a modern wave of good superhero movies that we're still kind of living

01:13:38   in. You could argue it. It's not necessarily something that I would, I think it's debatable

01:13:45   but I think that it's possible, certainly that it did that. Those first two Spider-Man

01:13:49   movies are very good. Spider-Man 2 is frequently cited as one of the very best superhero movies

01:13:55   ever made.

01:13:56   Steve - Yeah, I mean, even Spider-Man 3 which wasn't as good was still, it was still pretty

01:14:01   good. But it was okay. It was definitely the weaker of the three that had some really bad

01:14:07   moments in it but wasn't like an overall disaster but like it just had some some really dumb

01:14:12   parts I think it was an overall disaster.

01:14:15   Okay. Maybe you've seen it more recently than me right like maybe this is what it is and

01:14:20   I'm looking at this with rose-tinted glasses but the number one thing that I was worried

01:14:25   about and probably my number one favorite thing of this movie is they were just like

01:14:29   origin story what origin story there's literally a line where Peter's friend Ned says to him

01:14:37   "Dude, you were bitten by a radioactive spider."

01:14:40   And he's like, "Yeah, I was.

01:14:41   "Well, maybe get me that spider."

01:14:43   And he says, "The spider's dead, dude.

01:14:44   "Like, leave it alone."

01:14:46   - And so is Uncle Ben.

01:14:47   - And there's no Uncle Ben.

01:14:48   There's really literally a line where he says,

01:14:51   "After all that May has been through,

01:14:54   "I don't wanna burden her with this."

01:14:56   And that's it.

01:14:56   That's the, you know, she's there.

01:14:57   There's no uncle, and she's there alone, but that's it.

01:15:00   It's not in there.

01:15:02   And I, as a lifelong, there will be purists who'll be like,

01:15:05   "But that's the core of the character."

01:15:06   Like, as a lifelong Spider-Man fan, good call.

01:15:10   I don't need to see it again. - Yeah, no more, no more.

01:15:12   - We don't need it.

01:15:13   And instead, his origin story is essentially

01:15:17   that he was in "Civil War II," or "Civil War,"

01:15:19   which we all saw, "Captain America Civil War."

01:15:21   - Do you know I haven't seen it?

01:15:22   I don't know why.

01:15:24   I thought I'd seen it.

01:15:26   Right? (laughs)

01:15:28   - The good news is, it's a good movie, I liked it a lot,

01:15:30   but the good news is, Myke,

01:15:31   that the Spider-Man part gets recounted here

01:15:33   at the beginning of "Spider-Man" oncoming.

01:15:34   I mean look I've seen the trailer so like I've also already seen it. I don't honestly

01:15:40   I think because I've seen the trailer. I thought I'd seen the movie. Yeah

01:15:44   I don't know why this had happened to me because I've seen all of them, right? I think it's a movie

01:15:49   I haven't seen Doctor Strange and I haven't seen civil also a good movie

01:15:53   But like they're on my list and so I'm gonna watch time time to get to those. Yes, absolutely

01:15:57   Well something was very exciting to me

01:15:59   This is the first Marvel movie that Idina has seen other than actually I say other than the two Guardians of the Galaxy

01:16:05   All right, and we left this and she was like I would watch some more. I'm like great. There's loads of them

01:16:11   We'll go back to Iron Man right and so yeah, I think we're gonna maybe actually it was out you should watch dr.

01:16:18   Strange with her I think I think she would like that I like that movie a lot. Okay good

01:16:21   Yeah, I know again like I I have only not seen it because I haven't seen it not because I don't want to if that

01:16:26   make sense right and it doesn't require any real knowledge of any Marvel stuff

01:16:31   unlike this totally does this was why I'd taken her to see Guardians of the

01:16:36   Galaxy and took her to see this movie because I figured Guardians of Galaxy

01:16:39   especially because I knew that but also even though I knew there would be some

01:16:42   crossover with spider-man that it wouldn't we weren't gonna see the

01:16:46   Avengers all popping up for the entire movie where I had to explain like 15

01:16:49   characters to her right right she's interested now in seeing the next

01:16:54   Avengers movie because she liked Spider-Man, she liked Guardians of the Galaxy, she likes

01:16:58   the idea of those characters all being in a movie together. Well, I'm like, well, we're

01:17:01   going to have to watch more. Like if you want to go and see that movie next year, you really

01:17:06   need more backstory. So we're considering going through some of them. But so whilst

01:17:10   we didn't get an origin story, we did get really good parts of the movie of him learning

01:17:15   his capabilities of Spider-Man. Because and this is all hidden up in the suit, right?

01:17:20   Like he knows how to be Spider-Man, he knows how to shoot webs, he knows how to climb walls,

01:17:24   what he doesn't know is what this suit can do for him right and I like how

01:17:27   even throughout the whole movie like he's going through this because the suit

01:17:33   continues to get more powerful the suit gets more abilities so he learns more

01:17:38   and it's done in a really great way which I really liked and the whole

01:17:42   Karen voice this is something that's new to me I don't recall well anything that

01:17:48   I any comics that I've read and this may be something that exists in some part of

01:17:53   of the the comic book lore. I don't know of of Spider-Man having a Jarvis-like assistant.

01:18:00   I assume that somewhere throughout the whole Iron Man like thing there is a there is a there is a

01:18:06   brief moment in the comic book lore where where Peter Parker gets a Tony Stark designed suit which

01:18:13   they call the Iron Spider that this is kind of hinting at but not really the same at all. I think

01:18:19   I think the idea here is that movie viewers know that Iron Man has a suit that talks to

01:18:26   him.

01:18:27   And so if you're going to have Spider-Man be given a suit by Tony Stark, there is this

01:18:32   assumption that maybe it's an Iron Man suit essentially, which is what they play with

01:18:36   when the kid hackers, which is a little bit ridiculous, disengage all the safety protocols

01:18:42   and turn on the full span of the suit.

01:18:44   But I don't recall reading a story like this.

01:18:47   Although I really, my favorite thing about them having Tony Stark build him a suit is

01:18:50   it explains how he could get a suit that looks so good because that's never really well explained

01:18:53   in Spider-Man lore.

01:18:55   And it allows that, in Civil War they explain like he's got special, instead of wearing

01:19:00   goggles he's got these eye holes that can telescope and things like that.

01:19:05   But what that does, that little trick, is it allows the movie Spider-Man suit to do

01:19:09   what the comic book Spider-Man suit does, which is his eyes on his mask are expressive.

01:19:15   makes sense in the comics but when you try to do that in real life action it

01:19:22   doesn't work like the physics of it doesn't work it's all about like

01:19:25   comic-book artists adding expressivity to spider-man's mask and so in this they

01:19:31   get it because they say it's a you know it's a special high-tech suit that can

01:19:36   adjust the eyes based on what Peters doing inside the suit which is you know

01:19:41   whatever, it's tech explanation, you know, for magic things that happen, but in the end it allows,

01:19:46   it gives them the freedom to style the face of Spider-Man and have it be expressive even when

01:19:53   he's in the suit, and it looks great. So that's a reason for it. The, yeah, the AI thing is not

01:20:00   really taken from anywhere, but it's good because it shows he's totally out of his depth, and it's

01:20:06   useful in the story because it gives him at several points when he's alone it gives him

01:20:10   someone to talk to. That's one of the reasons I really liked it and you know it I think they added

01:20:16   just a different dimension which I just really enjoyed it I thought it was a really smart

01:20:20   addition. I think the the iron spider suit is what is what Tony has for him at the end of the movie

01:20:27   right like that's what that is. It's like a super souped up um yeah super souped up suit. Because

01:20:36   'cause it's also got the bigger golden spider on it, right?

01:20:39   Which he, in the comics, I believe he gets like,

01:20:42   after Civil War, right, when they kind of align.

01:20:45   - Yes, or during, I think it's maybe even

01:20:47   during the Civil War or right before,

01:20:49   and it's one of the reasons that Peter aligns with him

01:20:51   in the comics. - He gives him

01:20:53   the cool suit.

01:20:54   - So it sounds like that in the previews

01:20:57   for that new Avengers movie, that this is,

01:21:00   that's where they're going with that,

01:21:02   like Tony trying to soup up what Spider-Man does.

01:21:06   But I like that, in fact, at the end of the movie,

01:21:09   one of the great things that happens is

01:21:12   when Peter rejects Tony's,

01:21:14   like we're gonna have you move into the Avengers complex

01:21:16   and just not be a student anymore

01:21:20   and not be living at home with Aunt May

01:21:22   and I'll give you this super high-tech suit

01:21:24   that he leaves.

01:21:26   And I like that because

01:21:28   we haven't even mentioned Michael Keaton yet,

01:21:29   but I like that Michael Keaton, you know,

01:21:33   he gives that speech that's a really great speech

01:21:35   about like, these guys don't care about us,

01:21:37   we're the little guy, and he's not wrong.

01:21:39   He's not wrong, he's a great villain speech

01:21:41   because it is not like you listen to it and go,

01:21:46   he's a madman.

01:21:47   It's like, oh, I see why his worldview

01:21:49   leads him to do what he does, which is a great,

01:21:51   that's what I want from a villain is,

01:21:53   I want a villain who makes sense.

01:21:55   So he says that, and then when Peter turns down Tony,

01:21:57   I cannot help but think of the echo of the vulture speech,

01:22:01   which is, you know, these guys,

01:22:03   you're not like these people, you belong back in Queens.

01:22:08   And I like that he gets his sort of regular suit back

01:22:11   at the end.

01:22:12   So he still gets like what Tony gave him originally,

01:22:14   but not the super high-tech tricked out Avengers thing

01:22:17   that he had on display at the press conference.

01:22:21   - Yeah, he's gonna need that with Thanos, right?

01:22:24   You'll need it, but right now he does.

01:22:25   - Right, not yet.

01:22:26   as Tony I love that Tony did it the friendly neighborhood spider-man like I

01:22:30   like the way they work that in that was real nice I like that a lot

01:22:34   let's touch on Michael Keaton just one I mean amazing right of course the guy

01:22:39   you know everybody knows for a career renaissance right now right which I guess

01:22:43   started with Birdman yeah you know he's got you know he's one of those those

01:22:49   actors that like later in life has found a new level of success every villain is

01:22:53   the hero of their own story and you see it with Michael Keaton. He is a hero. He takes

01:22:58   the injustice of having the government and Tony Stark take away his business and he uses

01:23:04   the alien tech that he scrounged to build a new business and buy a nice house and take

01:23:08   care of his family and then he reacts when the family is threatened. And he gives that

01:23:14   speech. He is the hero of his own story. His motivations are reasonable. He is as realistic

01:23:21   a villain as you're ever going to find in a superhero movie.

01:23:24   And I love it.

01:23:25   Doesn't really feel like an intrinsically bad person.

01:23:29   He's just a guy who does some things that are questionable, but the motives are decent.

01:23:33   He's made some bad decisions in the name of taking care of his family.

01:23:38   He kills someone by accident, right?

01:23:40   Like he kills an guy by accident.

01:23:41   Yeah, he does.

01:23:42   Which is kind of funny.

01:23:43   But he doesn't seem too broken up about it, though, to be honest.

01:23:45   I know, because he's like, "Well, what are you going to do?"

01:23:48   And then like, you know, he, because Peter saved his daughter's life, he won't kill him,

01:23:54   right?

01:23:55   Won't kill him.

01:23:56   He's like, I'm going to let this go.

01:23:57   Just don't come for me.

01:24:01   And you know, he's like, the plane doesn't have any humans on it.

01:24:05   And he knows that, right?

01:24:06   Like the plane that he hijacks.

01:24:08   And then obviously right at the end of the movie, he effectively tries to save Peter's

01:24:12   life because he saved his.

01:24:15   Like, good man put in a bad situation does some bad things.

01:24:19   Right?

01:24:20   And that's what I really loved about the character is this is not normal because even in usual

01:24:25   superhero movies, even if it's a regular person, which is how it tends to be now, that gets

01:24:30   put into some kind of situation or something happens to them, they just become evil.

01:24:34   Right?

01:24:35   And then that's just how they deal with their stuff.

01:24:37   Right?

01:24:38   Liz, I want to talk about Liz because you tweeted something that intrigued me.

01:24:44   I knew it would get you.

01:24:46   You knew it was going to come for me.

01:24:49   You compare Liz to Diane from Say Anything, and I would like you to expand on that a little

01:24:54   bit.

01:24:55   Okay, so the background story is that the people who wrote this movie, including John

01:25:00   Francis Daley, who played Linda Cardellini's little brother in Freaks and Geeks, which is

01:25:04   kind of amazing, and Martin Starr, who is one of the other geeks in Freaks and Geeks,

01:25:09   is in this movie as the science teacher.

01:25:11   And of course, the connections are amazing

01:25:15   'cause of course James Franco was in "Freaks and Geeks"

01:25:17   and he was Harry Osborn in the earlier "Spider-Man" movies.

01:25:19   And Linda Cardellini from "Freaks and Geeks"

01:25:22   is Hawkeye's wife in "Age of Ultron".

01:25:27   Oh, the connections are amazing.

01:25:28   And one of the screenwriters of this movie

01:25:30   is the kid brother.

01:25:32   Anyway, they said that they modeled this movie

01:25:35   after a John Hughes movie, especially "The Breakfast Club".

01:25:39   And you can totally see it.

01:25:40   like the group of kids in the high school,

01:25:43   like the girl who we end up discovering is MJ.

01:25:48   - Where everyone in my screening was like,

01:25:50   "Oh!" when that happened.

01:25:52   - Yeah, but she's so Ally Sheedy kind of,

01:25:55   and you got the popular girl,

01:25:57   and you got the kind of bully,

01:25:59   and I mean, it is very,

01:26:01   they said they were inspired by 80s movies,

01:26:04   and I can feel it.

01:26:05   And in fact, some of the reviews I've read,

01:26:06   I don't entirely agree with this

01:26:07   because I really liked all of it,

01:26:09   but some of the reviews have said it's a fine superhero movie,

01:26:12   but it's a great high school movie.

01:26:15   And I can see where they're coming from

01:26:16   because the high school stuff really lends,

01:26:18   it makes this more than just another superhero movie.

01:26:21   There is this whole other layer

01:26:23   that is exactly what you want out of a Spider-Man movie

01:26:25   in my mind is that other layer of his life

01:26:28   as a regular high school student

01:26:29   and how does he balance them

01:26:31   and how does being Spider-Man kind of mess

01:26:32   with his regular life.

01:26:34   But the movie that I haven't seen cited

01:26:37   because it's not a John Hughes movie and I just suddenly realized when we were

01:26:40   when I was editing The Incomparable, in fact, not even when we were talking about it,

01:26:43   I made a reference to Say Anything in the movie or in the podcast and didn't

01:26:48   take it the next step, which is Liz is like Diane Court in Say Anything

01:26:54   in the sense that Diane in Say Anything loves her dad, her dad takes care of her,

01:26:59   and she doesn't have a mom, in this case Liz has a mom, but loves her dad,

01:27:04   dad takes care of her and everything in Diane's house is less than $10,000 in value because

01:27:11   his dad is a tax cheat and an embezzler and he gets sent to prison. And Liz lives in a

01:27:19   nice house and I made the joke on The Uncomparable that it's a nice house but everything in it

01:27:23   costs less than $10,000 because Michael Keaton is a criminal, right? And gets put in the

01:27:29   pokey at the end of the movie. And that was that moment when I went, "Oh yeah, talk about

01:27:33   another reference intentional or not, but I had that moment where I thought Liz is a

01:27:39   brain, she's not a social outcast like Diane is, but she's a brain, she's the captain of

01:27:44   the academic decathlon team that wins the national championship, right? And it's the

01:27:48   most important thing in her life. So although she's beautiful and looks like she would probably

01:27:53   be the most beautiful person at the Arts and Magnet School, she's still a nerd, really,

01:27:59   And her dad is somebody she loves and who takes care of her, but is actually a criminal

01:28:04   and lets her whole family down while he thinks he's taking care of the family.

01:28:08   And the immediate reference I got was to Diane from Say Anything because it felt like the

01:28:12   same sort of story.

01:28:14   So yeah.

01:28:15   You're right.

01:28:16   And I really, as you can imagine, I love the Liz character, right?

01:28:19   Because in my brain...

01:28:21   It's the sport of the future.

01:28:23   Yeah.

01:28:24   You mentioned character Michelle, who at the end of the movie says she goes by MJ, which

01:28:29   just just so good and also just like the attitude of that character is not Mary Jane and she is not

01:28:36   red hair right like I love that I love all of that I love everything they're doing there.

01:28:40   The message they're sending is you think you know about Spider-Man's stock characters but you don't

01:28:46   we're gonna do some different stuff and don't don't don't expect what you know don't expect a

01:28:52   red-headed girl to walk in and say face it chapter tiger you just hit the jackpot it's not gonna

01:28:57   happen. Mm-hmm. Yeah, and that's great. I like the mix with the Miles Morales story

01:29:03   arc with the inclusion of the Ned character. Yeah, because Ned is basically basically

01:29:08   Gank from Miles Morales' story, which is a slightly portly

01:29:14   Asian teenager who is his friend and confidant and knows that he's Spider-Man.

01:29:18   That is right out of the Miles Morales storyline, and it's a great

01:29:22   character and it's great to give him a confidant. And of course at the end, Aunt

01:29:25   May finds out he's Spider-Man too. And this is, that's, that's all right out of the Ultimate

01:29:28   Spider-Man stories about Peter and Miles. And I think that's great because Peter on

01:29:33   his own only knowing, as the only person who knows he's Spider-Man, is kind of boring.

01:29:37   I don't really want him to be known by everybody, but having a bunch of people who know him

01:29:44   and support him leads to better drama, I would say, and a more modern take on it. If you

01:29:49   think about Ultimate Spider-Man or something like Buffy the Vampire Slayer, having, you

01:29:53   know team spider-man is a I think a better approach to it and the constant

01:29:58   I mean throughout is great right Marisa Tomei fantastic haunt me Donald Glava

01:30:04   played a great role in the movie yeah he's in two scenes and after the first

01:30:08   scene I was really sad that he wasn't coming back and then he came back for a

01:30:11   great scene where he just wants to get home with his groceries and he's been

01:30:14   webbed to his car yeah and and he gives a nice lecture to to spider-man where

01:30:19   he's like you need to be better at this part of your job because he's a kid and

01:30:22   he has no idea what he's doing.

01:30:24   And the Easter egg there is that Donald Glover's character

01:30:28   that he's playing is, and the reason that he's

01:30:30   in the first scene trying to get some sort of like

01:30:34   thieving equipment, he doesn't want weapons,

01:30:37   he wants like things that let you stick to walls and stuff,

01:30:40   is because his character is in the Marvel canon

01:30:43   known as the Prowler.

01:30:44   He's Aaron Douglas, I think I wanna say his name is.

01:30:47   He's the Prowler, and at one point he mentions to Spider-Man

01:30:51   in that second scene. You're from Queens? My nephew lives in Queens. His nephew is Miles

01:30:57   Morales.

01:30:58   That is awesome.

01:30:59   Yeah, a little tidbit. A little Easter egg.

01:31:01   That's really interesting. Do you reckon I'm going to do something with that?

01:31:04   I don't know. Who knows? Some things are just Easter eggs and if they go with them…

01:31:08   I think the interview I read with the screenwriters basically said, they're like, "Did you

01:31:12   have a plan for the second movie?" and putting these things in there and they're like,

01:31:15   "You know what? Is there going to be a second movie? Are we going to work on the second

01:31:20   movie, what do they want from the second movie? I get the impression that you put in that

01:31:24   stuff as potential threads or fun Easter eggs and you just shrug. I don't think there's

01:31:29   a master plan yet. Now, this movie having done very well, maybe they will bring these

01:31:33   writers back and maybe they will pick up some of those threads, but I don't think they wrote

01:31:37   this with a plan for what the second of these Spider-Man movies would be. I don't think

01:31:43   so. I do think that is a fun tip of the cap to Miles Morales and I like that. Plus, they

01:31:49   the Ned character is right out of Miles' story, which is fun.

01:31:53   >>ANDREW Yeah, and I also just thought that Jon Favreau

01:31:55   and Robert Downey Jr. played their parts perfectly without overshadowing Tom Holland. I think

01:32:01   that they fit into the story well.

01:32:02   >>DAVID These are the--how many dads does he have,

01:32:06   since he doesn't have a dad? He has Jon Favreau, who is sort of his babysitter more than a

01:32:12   dad, but he gives--he's the one he's trying to get approval from. Robert Downey Jr. is

01:32:17   this remote dad who he can't get to. And then he's got Michael Keaton, who's his villain

01:32:25   dad who wants to –

01:32:26   -He has a villain dad, he has money dad, he has babysitter dad.

01:32:30   -Yeah, it's interesting.

01:32:31   -Teacher dad.

01:32:32   -And in the end, despite what we've seen from the beginning, which is being starstruck

01:32:37   by Robert Downey Jr., by Tony Stark, he goes back home. And I like that. I like that choice,

01:32:45   maybe not everything is the Avengers even if he will totally be in the next

01:32:49   Avengers movie like the idea that he's not going to be become a Tony Stark's

01:32:54   like superhero university enrollee number one right he's going to go let be

01:33:01   a regular kid and live a normal life and be Spider-Man and he makes that choice I

01:33:05   really like that too but downy is downy is good and it is a funny gag when when

01:33:10   he when when Pepper Potts opens the door and it turns out there was a press

01:33:14   conference and it wasn't a test and that was pretty funny because I assumed it was a test

01:33:19   and just as Peter did but I do think there was maybe a little too much Downey like maybe

01:33:24   the scenes could have been shorter in the last scene where it's just him and Pepper

01:33:28   it was unnecessary we talked about this on the incomparable but and I got a sense from

01:33:32   it that a little bit of insecurity from Sony and and from Marvel frankly that they needed

01:33:39   a lot of Downey in the movie in order to prop it up and make it feel like a Marvel movie

01:33:43   And in the end, they didn't, but they didn't know that.

01:33:46   I can see the feeling of necessity, just to like really drive home the point that this is

01:33:53   a different Spider-Man and Spider-Man is now a part of this world. And like, you know, ideally,

01:33:58   have a few different characters. Why do you think Chris Evans is in it a bunch, right? Like,

01:34:02   just, you know, just do what you can to show that Spider-Man is a part of this world.

01:34:08   And the plot is about garbage left over from the Avengers, Battle of New York,

01:34:11   right? That's in there at the beginning as a fairly easy, like with the Daredevil and

01:34:15   other Netflix TV shows that have that as a backdrop of, "We're down on the ground in

01:34:20   New York City, but remember when there was this thing, remember the fallout from when

01:34:26   they had this battle in the middle of New York." They continue to mine that without

01:34:28   you really needing to know the continuity other than there was a disaster and a bunch

01:34:32   of alien garbage got left everywhere.

01:34:34   Yeah, like I mean there was this one fight one time

01:34:37   That was so many years ago and like the the Iron Man 3 built on it, right?

01:34:43   Like this movies built on it as you say like the dead of us like is all building on it

01:34:46   It's kind of funny in a way that like and I mean I haven't seen it

01:34:49   But I'm only gonna assume that agents of shield is partly based on the fact that there was this fight in New York

01:34:54   like it is kind of funny like when you think about

01:34:56   superhero movies in general about the fact that there are always fights in New York and there was just this one this one time and then

01:35:04   like so many more movies are pulling from it. Like if you think of the DC universe,

01:35:10   New York has been like, destructed like a billion times over by now.

01:35:14   It's not even New York. It's like Metropolis and Gotham and whatever, it's sort of a fictionalized

01:35:19   but yeah.

01:35:20   Oh yeah, of course. But yeah, anyway, I'm thinking like the Superman movies, right?

01:35:23   Like they just keep getting, Metropolis just keeps getting flattened. Which is kind of

01:35:28   funny.

01:35:29   So yeah, this is a quick thing, like when we left the movie and Dina was like, "We

01:35:33   should see Wonder Woman 2. I'm assuming that this is a good choice, right? People seem

01:35:39   to really like that movie. Because I just said to her, you know, I wasn't initially

01:35:44   enthused to see it because everything else I've seen from the DC universe I haven't enjoyed.

01:35:50   Would you recommend Wonder Woman?

01:35:52   Yes. Yes, unabashedly, and you don't need to know anything about... Here's what you

01:35:57   need to know about other DC movies before you see Wonder Woman. Bruce Wayne met Wonder

01:36:02   woman once and she had a picture of people from World War I. That's it. You didn't really

01:36:10   need to know that because it's in the opening sequence but that's it. Literally the one

01:36:14   thing you need to know is immediately recapped and the rest of the movie happens and you

01:36:18   don't need to know.

01:36:20   Yeah because initially I just naturally assumed I wasn't going to enjoy it because I hadn't

01:36:23   enjoyed any of the other post-good Batmans, you know, like past that Batman trilogy, you

01:36:33   know, I didn't like Superman, Man of Steel, yeah, so I just figured I just wouldn't enjoy

01:36:39   it but it seems like that Wonder Woman's at least broken that curse for the time being.

01:36:46   Alright so, I think that wraps up this week's episode, Jason.

01:36:50   I think so. I think so. Little bonus mic of the movies.

01:36:53   I feel like it's a good thing for episode 150.

01:36:56   Yeah, why not?

01:36:58   Because this is just a, you know, it's a big number.

01:37:00   Yes.

01:37:02   I just want to take a moment to thank all of our listeners.

01:37:04   I think that Upgrade, I'm very proud of the show

01:37:08   and the work that we put into it and

01:37:12   it continues to grow and evolve and change in ways that make me happy.

01:37:16   And I'm excited about, you know, as time goes on and

01:37:19   we add more funny segments and we have our recurring annual episodes and stuff like that.

01:37:25   Like I'm really proud of this show and I'm really proud of how it's grown over time and you know,

01:37:29   so whether you've been here since the beginning or you came as part of the show along the way,

01:37:34   thank you for listening to the show. We really couldn't do it without you being here because

01:37:39   otherwise there'd be nobody to listen. And also, you know, thank you to everybody for their

01:37:43   participation every week, you know, the hashtag Snail Talk, hashtag Ask Upgrade. I never have to

01:37:48   like fight to get that stuff through right like it's always there there's always stuff for me

01:37:52   every week um so thank you to everybody that is a part of the show as well by by their participation

01:37:58   and Jason thank you uh for being here with me every week it's it's a real pleasure well

01:38:05   likewise I'm I'm very glad this was the I was telling somebody this story not too long ago that

01:38:09   that was one of the uh decisions I made first when I knew I was leaving my old job was I wanted to do

01:38:16   a podcast in this format and with Relay starting up, it felt like the obvious thing to do would

01:38:25   be to do that podcast with you at Relay and that has been borne out as a very good decision.

01:38:32   So thank you.

01:38:33   Thanks to our sponsors this week, Blue Apron, Mac Weldon, and Encapsula. You can find Jason

01:38:37   online. He is @Jason now on Twitter, JSNELL. He's over at SixColors.com as well and TheIncomparable.com.

01:38:45   I am @imike, I M Y K E. We'll be back next time. Until then, say goodbye, Jsus now. Goodbye!

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