149: The Taste of Danger


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:08   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade episode 149. Today's show is brought to you by

00:00:14   Squarespace, Away and Encapsula. My name is Myke Hurley and I am joined

00:00:18   by Jason Snell. Hola, Jason Snell.

00:00:20   Hola, Miguel Hurley.

00:00:23   That was a nice try on the surname there but uh I don't think you nailed it.

00:00:27   I don't know what it would be. I don't know what the Spanish version of Hurley would be, but I don't think it was that.

00:00:32   Or Leo?

00:00:34   We can workshop this later on. Michael would like to know for #snailtalk this week,

00:00:40   "As a 12.9 inch iPad Pro user, I sometimes think that the lunch tray comparison is an apt one, because the iPad is so large.

00:00:48   Jason, have you ever used your 12.9 inch iPad Pro to carry things around the house?"

00:00:54   Only in moments of necessity. Best example, I actually did this this morning, although I admit I did it after I read this, but I think I would have done it anyway,

00:01:06   which is I had a cup of tea and I had a plate with my breakfast on it, and I had my iPad because I was reading while the breakfast was finishing,

00:01:18   and I realized I needed to take these three objects

00:01:21   back to the bedroom.

00:01:22   And so I closed my smart cover

00:01:25   and put my plate on the iPad

00:01:28   and then picked up the mug of tea

00:01:30   and used it as a carrier for that.

00:01:32   But it was a little plate and it barely fit

00:01:34   'cause it seems like a lunch tray,

00:01:37   but let me tell you, a lunch tray is larger.

00:01:40   So, but yes, sure, why not?

00:01:41   If I've only got two arms.

00:01:44   So if I need to carry three things

00:01:46   and one of them is the iPad, it's a flat surface,

00:01:48   you can do it.

00:01:49   By the way, my cat likes to sit on iPads.

00:01:52   It's strange, like on our bed, he will oftentimes sit

00:01:57   or lay down on my iPad or my wife's iPad.

00:02:01   - Other computers too, or just iPads?

00:02:04   - The laptops are very rarely any place

00:02:07   where the cat would be.

00:02:08   I don't know if he sits on laptops, I don't think so.

00:02:13   I don't think I've seen him sit,

00:02:14   My son and my daughter have laptops and I don't think I've seen him sitting on them.

00:02:19   But the iPad, I think it's like the leather case or something that's more comfortable than the metal of a...

00:02:25   Or stickers.

00:02:26   My daughter's laptop is covered with stickers, he must not like sitting on stickers.

00:02:29   You can't cover the wonderful artistry.

00:02:33   Oh yeah, good point. Good point.

00:02:36   So I have some follow-up about peanut butter.

00:02:39   Of course we do.

00:02:40   Snell Talk has erupted into follow-up.

00:02:42   This is Snell Talk follow-up, not regular follow-up.

00:02:44   It is actually.

00:02:45   This is in the chapter markers, Myke.

00:02:47   It's very important that we still remain in the Snell Talk chapter if people haven't seen

00:02:52   there's a chapter of Snell Talk, there's custom art.

00:02:54   We are still ensconced inside the Snell Talk set of parentheses for this follow-up.

00:03:00   Just want to be clear about that.

00:03:02   So the Snell Talk follow-up is around peanut butter.

00:03:05   So last week we were talking about the fact that you love peanut butter more than anything

00:03:12   else that you eat. And I reminded you…

00:03:15   Thank you for that qualifier.

00:03:17   I reminded you. I assume you like your family more than peanut butter. I figured it was

00:03:21   just important to mention that.

00:03:22   I do. Thank you. Well said.

00:03:23   I also reminded you and the rest of the world that I am allergic. And we had lots of upgrade

00:03:28   ends right in, Jason, to tell me about all of the peanut butter flavored things that

00:03:32   I could have that do not actually contain peanuts. So, Gannon and Rob suggested a product

00:03:38   called Sun Butter, which is all one word.

00:03:41   Ted suggested something which is kind of wonderfully named

00:03:44   Get Buzzing Wow Butter Bars,

00:03:46   the Get Buzzing Wow Butter Bars, as I like saying that.

00:03:50   And Phil, Andrew, and another Jason

00:03:52   all suggested something called just Wow Butter.

00:03:55   So I think Wow Butter seems to be the winner here

00:03:58   'cause I assume that the Get Buzzing product

00:03:59   contains something called Wow Butter.

00:04:02   So I do have a thought about this though.

00:04:04   So I was looking at all these products

00:04:06   and thinking, oh, interesting.

00:04:07   I don't like the flavor of peanut butter because in my mind, if I ever eat peanuts or smell

00:04:15   peanuts, I get scared, right? So I appreciate all of this. I appreciate the feedback. But

00:04:24   as I started thinking about this and wondering if I should get some, I decided I didn't want

00:04:28   to do it because it would probably make me feel rather unwell to eat anything peanut

00:04:34   related.

00:04:35   I imagine you'd be like nervous, right?

00:04:38   Like it would set off something in you

00:04:42   because this is normally the taste of danger,

00:04:44   the taste of death and or potential death anyway.

00:04:48   And it's also what your sun butter is,

00:04:50   is sunflower seed butter, I believe.

00:04:53   So it's a replacement that doesn't use nuts

00:04:58   'cause there's also like almond butter

00:04:59   and stuff like that and cashew butter.

00:05:01   - Yeah, I get a bit funny with sunflower seeds as well

00:05:05   because they're a tongue tingly.

00:05:07   - Wow butter seems like it's a completely artificial

00:05:10   substance made to taste like peanut butter,

00:05:12   which is brilliant.

00:05:13   I mean, the label on it says it's safe for schools.

00:05:16   You know, there are a lot of schools have a no nut policy.

00:05:19   So if your kid really loves peanut butter

00:05:20   and jelly sandwiches and the schools have no peanuts

00:05:23   because they've got kids with peanut allergies,

00:05:26   then you buy Wow Butter and use it

00:05:27   and hopefully your kid doesn't know the difference.

00:05:29   I will say as somebody who does love peanut butter,

00:05:31   and I'm gonna bring in our pal Casey Liss,

00:05:34   loves Reese's Peanut Butter Cups to this conversation too. There are two sorts of flavors of peanut

00:05:40   butter. There's actual peanut butter and there's artificial-ish peanut butter-like flavor.

00:05:48   And I wonder which one Wow Butter is because Reese's Peanut Butter Cups taste like peanut

00:05:53   butter but kind of not. We just were traveling last weekend and weekend before last and the

00:06:00   small town we were staying in had a brand new like a fudge shop that opened

00:06:04   and the kids went in there and one of the fudges they bought was this peanut

00:06:08   butter fudge which I tasted and and because I because peanut butter and my

00:06:13   my reaction was oh this is like the filling that goes inside the Reese's

00:06:16   peanut butter cups it's not quite real it's real ish and even things like

00:06:22   frozen yogurt sometimes I went to a frozen yogurt place in Southern

00:06:26   California with my in-laws and they had two different peanut butter flavors on

00:06:31   the menu which was weird and I got tasters of both and one of them

00:06:35   tasted like peanut butter and the other tasted like Reese's Peanut Butter Cup.

00:06:39   Like it was not natural, it tasted kind of weird. So my long point here

00:06:47   is I wonder whether the artificial peanut butter tastes like peanut butter

00:06:51   or if it tastes like what we think peanut butter should taste like, if that makes any

00:06:56   sense. And I don't know, maybe if I see artificial peanut butter sometime, I will buy it and

00:07:01   try it and report back. How about that?

00:07:03   Yeah, I feel like it's like how chocolate-flavored things never actually taste like chocolate.

00:07:08   They taste like the chocolate flavor.

00:07:10   Which is an approximation, and you can see where they're going with it, but it's not

00:07:13   the same as the actual flavor. That happens with a lot of artificial flavors, where they

00:07:17   They are like an analogue, sometimes closer to it, sometimes further away like the purple

00:07:24   flavour that you'll get in a popsicle or something.

00:07:27   Or even orange, right?

00:07:29   Like orange doesn't actually taste like orange.

00:07:32   But the purple flavour, which is supposed to be grape and it kind of is like grape juice

00:07:36   but it's not quite right, or the red flavour that is supposed to be cherry but is kind

00:07:41   of not.

00:07:44   There are degrees of how we can take artificial flavorings and get them close to what the

00:07:48   real flavor is and some of them are close and some of them are far away and I'm saying

00:07:52   with peanut butter I can kind of tell the difference but I'm curious about how good

00:07:57   an analog something like the Wow!

00:07:58   Butter is.

00:07:59   So yeah peanut butter talk here we are.

00:08:01   If you'd like to submit a question to Snell Talk which may later also be included in follow-up

00:08:06   you can tweet with the hashtag Snell Talk they go into a spreadsheet and we can pick

00:08:10   them out for later in the show.

00:08:12   you to Michael for suggesting the question and everybody this week who sent in peanut

00:08:16   butter replacements for me. I appreciate the work that you all did, but I will be sitting

00:08:22   this one out, I think.

00:08:24   Gracias, Miguel.

00:08:25   One of your favorite applications, I believe a previous upgradey award winner, Ferrite

00:08:31   Recording Studio for iOS, which is a podcast editing application. It is actually even on

00:08:38   Woujijous, who's the name of the developer, on their page right at the very bottom. This

00:08:41   is winner of best new iOS app for the upgrade is 2015. They have the badge.

00:08:46   >> Yes. >> One of the only companies that actually

00:08:48   displays the SASH proudly, which they all should. I wanted to mention this because Ferrite

00:08:54   1.6 came out today. And I'll mention this for two reasons. One, it is a huge update.

00:08:59   So Ferrite now has the ability to encode into MP3 and export in MP3 and also add MP3 chapters.

00:09:07   and I'm assuming all of this is available because of those patents that just recently

00:09:10   expired on MP3.

00:09:11   Exactly right.

00:09:12   And also, customizable keyboard shortcuts is one of the new features, allowing you to

00:09:19   change any keyboard shortcut or to choose from templates, which are modeled on desktop

00:09:26   editing applications like Logic.

00:09:27   Now you said that this was a major stumbling block for you in editing, was your frustration

00:09:32   about like using it because you wanted to use this with a keyboard which I only used

00:09:37   when I started and I very rapidly stopped using it with a keyboard and you were frustrated

00:09:41   by the keyboard shortcuts.

00:09:42   Because they weren't the ones that I knew and the reason I wanted to mention this is

00:09:46   because Adam meet up in London, the developer of Ferrite was there and I begged and pleaded

00:09:53   him to add this and he did and I played around with it today and it's great.

00:09:58   I have some some further feedback I'm going to give him.

00:10:00   There's some keyboard commands that are kind of hidden in logic that I would really love.

00:10:06   Like for example, if you, I think it's shift I, again I have all these mapped to a Wacom

00:10:12   thing, it inverts your selection, which is really good.

00:10:15   I like that one a lot.

00:10:18   So there's some additional stuff that I, but like I'm really pleased, because the thing

00:10:22   is an application like this, I think it's really good to be able to, wherever you can,

00:10:27   people moving from other applications. Because I speak for myself, but I don't know the

00:10:34   actual... I mean if you say to me, "What is this action that you do all the time on

00:10:38   the keyboard? What is the actual keyboard command?" Sometimes I can't remember, but

00:10:42   I just do them. My hands know them, right? Like it's muscle memory. So when I sit down

00:10:46   an application, sometimes the idea of trimming something, in my mind, is mapped to the keyboard

00:10:52   command in which you use to trim something, right? So it's when you go somewhere else

00:10:56   and it has different keyboard shortcuts, it can be really disorientating. So I was really

00:11:02   pleased to see that they were able to do this for Ferrite because it's also really interesting

00:11:08   in that, because when we're talking I've never seen an application do this before, like where

00:11:12   you can literally just change the keyboard shortcuts and Apple and like, so when you

00:11:16   bring up, you know, you can hold down the command key on iOS if you have a keyboard

00:11:20   and it shows you that little sheet, like that, you know, that is populated by whatever keyboard

00:11:26   commands you've entered in, like it's really, really powerful.

00:11:29   And it is another example of just a really fantastic application, which is just continuing

00:11:35   to get more and more and more powerful over time.

00:11:37   So I just wanted to give them a shout out for this work.

00:11:40   I appreciate it.

00:11:41   I actually use this, I've been using this beta, obviously, because I'm on the beta list,

00:11:46   And somebody tweeted at me this weekend and said, "Oh, look, there's this update that

00:11:51   does MP3 encoding."

00:11:52   And I said, "Yeah, these three podcasts that I did last weekend were all exported using

00:11:56   the MP3 encoder in Fairlight," which is great because I used to have to export a WAV file

00:12:02   or an AIFF or a high bit rate MP4 and then re-encode that or encode that either on device

00:12:12   or on a web service somewhere.

00:12:14   And with this, I'm actually able to, I haven't done the chapter stuff yet, but exported as

00:12:19   an MP3, put the show art in, which I've got to give him some feedback about it because

00:12:25   I think one of my frustrations now is that with iOS in general is a lot of times apps

00:12:30   just assume that everything image related comes off the camera roll.

00:12:34   And that needs to stop because like the last thing I really want to do is go out to Dropbox,

00:12:39   find the right image, save it to my camera roll, then go back and add it from the camera

00:12:43   roll.

00:12:44   just pick an image from Dropbox and they're still using,

00:12:47   Ferrite still uses the camera roll for your podcast image.

00:12:50   It's like, no, no, I'm not taking a picture

00:12:53   of my podcast logo.

00:12:54   It's stored in a cloud service.

00:12:56   Let me get it from the files app or whatever.

00:12:58   And I'm sure he'll get there.

00:13:00   But I was able to output those directly.

00:13:04   And in fact, using the commands in Ferrite,

00:13:07   I was able to say basically,

00:13:08   export this and open the result in transmit the FTP app.

00:13:13   app and it bounced the file, which is to put all the tracks together, encode it as an MP3

00:13:21   and tagged it properly and all of that, and then just popped it into transmit, which allowed

00:13:26   me to transfer it up to where that file belonged for posting in basically one step.

00:13:35   It's great that like shaves...

00:13:38   This is what I was alluding to when I wrote that piece about how the MP3, long live the

00:13:42   MP3 now that the patents have expired. It's like one of the developers I knew wanted to

00:13:46   do this and couldn't because of the patents was the Ferrite developer. So, you know, here

00:13:51   we are where now Ferrite is like way more useful for podcasters because it goes direct

00:13:57   to the final file and that's because the patents expired.

00:14:00   So yeah, this is just great all around and I want to give Michelle a shout out because

00:14:05   continuing to add really really interesting stuff to the application.

00:14:09   Yeah, yeah, no, and I love it. It's, um, if I, if I had to give up logic,

00:14:14   I would just start editing everything on fair, right on my iPad.

00:14:16   I would not find another Mac editor. I would,

00:14:20   because fair right does everything that logic does for me, essentially.

00:14:23   Wade wrote in Jason to ask your opinion on how the experience of reading comics

00:14:30   in apps like comics ology is, uh, on the 10.5 inch iPad pro.

00:14:35   Does the bigger screen make it better? Um, is, you know,

00:14:38   how does it stack up against the 12.9?

00:14:40   - That's a good question.

00:14:44   It's certainly one of the first things I looked at

00:14:46   when I picked it up.

00:14:47   Yes, the 10.5 screen has more pixels and it's larger

00:14:52   and so therefore it is better than the 9.7.

00:14:54   There's no doubt about it.

00:14:55   It is better.

00:14:56   It's not what I would call

00:14:58   like a full-sized comic reading experience.

00:15:01   Everything is a little bit too small for me.

00:15:04   I think depending on how great your eyesight is,

00:15:07   It might be doable, but like the 12.9 has really spoiled me because I can just read

00:15:14   the pages.

00:15:15   The comic page is full screen on the 12.9 and it's great.

00:15:18   It's the right size.

00:15:22   And it's the physical size.

00:15:23   Like there was a time, I think this isn't true anymore, but there was a time when the

00:15:29   comics apps on the iPad were largely just scaled up 9.7 apps on the 12.9.

00:15:34   So you weren't actually getting any more quality.

00:15:36   I think that's not true anymore, but it doesn't really matter.

00:15:39   The point is the size of it, just the ability to read the text in the panels.

00:15:46   And it's a little harder to do on the 10.5, but it's better than it was.

00:15:49   It's definitely a better comic reading experience than the 12.9.

00:15:52   But if you read a lot of comics on your iPad, 12.9 is always going to be better just because

00:15:56   it's bigger.

00:15:57   And the page format, you know, it's anticipating when they're doing it for print, it's anticipating

00:16:03   a screen size or not a screen size a paper size that is better emulated by the 12.9 than

00:16:09   the 10.5 but you know you can do it and it and it totally is better.

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00:19:08   That yellow case, man. It's a real deal. It's a big old thing.

00:19:14   We'll be traveling with the blue and red cases this weekend, because I bought a second away

00:19:21   case that's red.

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00:19:25   It's not yellow.

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00:19:35   So Jason, I saw you over, I think over the weekend, going through a real, just a real

00:19:41   situation in regards to the Echo Show, which is Amazon's new Echo product which features

00:19:49   their new assistant.

00:19:50   Yeah, late last week.

00:19:51   So before we get into the situation that you were going through, I want to just talk to

00:19:56   you about the Echo Show a little bit and as a refresher for everybody who doesn't know,

00:20:00   the Echo Show is Amazon's new Echo product which has a screen on it.

00:20:03   So rather than it just being a cylinder that you can speak to, it also has a screen which

00:20:07   which enables some new functionality if you're so inclined, and we'll go through what some

00:20:11   of that is, but at its heart it still features the assistant that we're trying our best

00:20:16   not to name so it's not to set off people's devices. But I want to kind of, just before

00:20:21   we talk about some of the foibles that you ran into, I just want to talk about the Echo

00:20:27   Show with you a little bit, because I don't think we've really addressed it on this

00:20:29   show at all actually.

00:20:32   What made you want to get one of these? Was it just a work curiosity or was this a product

00:20:38   that you thought could fill a need that you had?

00:20:41   Uh, yeah, I mean, I like the Echo stuff. We've got one in our home, but the... what's made

00:20:54   me decide to pre-order one is that I felt I needed to know about it and probably would

00:21:00   need to write about it. I could have gotten away with not because Dan Morin likes the

00:21:03   stuff too and he buys the stuff too, but I decided that I like my Echo enough and was

00:21:09   curious enough about bringing in a screen and figuring that, you know, so it's a combination.

00:21:15   It's like everything else being equal, would I buy one? Almost certainly not. But was wanting

00:21:22   it because I like the echo part of the math. Sure, it was. If I hated these things and

00:21:30   never used them, but felt like I might want to get one to write about it, that I probably

00:21:36   would have not bothered because I know that Dan likes them and Dan was going to get one.

00:21:41   But it's a combination.

00:21:42   What do you think about the hardware?

00:21:46   I think it is not bad and that the photos don't do it justice because it make it look

00:21:51   like a giant television set and it's really quite small. It's a small molded piece of

00:21:57   plastic. The styling on it is kind of weird, but it's so small, especially the black one

00:22:03   which where it just kind of fades into the background. It's pretty unobtrusive. It doesn't

00:22:10   bother me. There's some issues with it in a sense that it has a direction now, and the

00:22:14   nice thing about the original Echo cylinder is that it doesn't have a direction. Being,

00:22:18   know, a cylinder, it's sort of facing all directions at once. And this one, because

00:22:23   of the screen and because the speakers seem to be firing forward, you need to, you know,

00:22:28   you're more aware of the position of the hardware. And that was inevitable, I guess, you know,

00:22:35   really when you put a screen on it, then the location is more relevant. And that's an issue.

00:22:42   But I think it gets knocked because of its looks. And I find the looks generally unobtrusive

00:22:48   and I do think it looks much less of a big deal in person than it does in a

00:22:53   photo

00:22:54   where you don't understand the size context and it seems like it's this

00:22:57   laughably large

00:22:58   old eighties kitchen television set kinda thing.

00:23:02   You're saying about the the direction of it. In our house we have

00:23:06   one of the regular echoes, one of the echo dots in another room

00:23:09   and kinda the way that we command

00:23:13   the echo to do things, we just say it wherever we are.

00:23:16   just walking around the house, you know, you just shout things out, whatever. But it doesn't

00:23:21   really, we don't really think about the placement of the device very often unless it's not listening

00:23:25   to us. Have you found that as a change for you? Do you feel like you're talking to the

00:23:29   Echo Show more than the cylinder, or is that not a thing? Like, you know, you say like

00:23:34   it, I think you're maybe more aware of its place in the home because you look at it more

00:23:39   often. Have you found that that's changed your relationship to the device in any way?

00:23:45   - It's still early days.

00:23:47   I think like my daughter just pointed out

00:23:52   how much she likes the lyrics feature.

00:23:55   Like that it'll just play the song lyrics

00:23:57   along with the music.

00:23:58   She loves that.

00:24:00   And I think Lauren already, my wife already

00:24:03   learned a lyric that she didn't, she had wrong.

00:24:07   'Cause it plays along like line by line with the song.

00:24:12   It's great.

00:24:15   And so she, they both have liked that.

00:24:18   You know, the truth is that it's not all there yet.

00:24:22   I mean, that's the truth is that it's kind of,

00:24:25   when the original Echo shipped, it did a few things

00:24:33   and week by week it has gotten better.

00:24:35   Well, this has all of that ability, which is great,

00:24:38   but the screen is brand new and it's just not there.

00:24:42   It does some a few things and then the rest of it is just sort of potential.

00:24:47   And I guess that's my frustration with it is if you consider the screen kind of

00:24:52   an optional thing, I think, I think it's fine because now when I ask it for,

00:24:59   um, my, my morning briefing, I get a visual of the weather forecast and then

00:25:04   it shows me what audio it's playing.

00:25:06   Um, it, is that a big deal?

00:25:09   Not really.

00:25:10   I don't need to look, but it's there if I want.

00:25:12   When you're doing kitchen timers, it will actually show you the timers that are going

00:25:16   and how much time is left, which is kind of nice.

00:25:19   That's a feature I really want.

00:25:20   Yeah, but it's all pretty rudimentary.

00:25:23   It's all, I think there's just way more potential here that is going to have to be unlocked

00:25:29   in the next year because it's just not all there.

00:25:33   You mentioned stuff like the timers and things like that, which is just, you know, enhancing

00:25:37   the functionality you had before.

00:25:39   If you found in your testing or in your, you know, what you can perceive you'd like to

00:25:45   do with a device that the Echo Show does anything for you now that the traditional Echo didn't.

00:25:50   I mean it does, there are, anybody who knows Siri knows that one of Apple's tricks with

00:25:58   Siri is punting to the screen when you can't do it with the voice anymore, right?

00:26:07   "Alright, maybe this will help." And they put something on the screen. And like, I always

00:26:12   consider that a failure, and I know it's not always a failure, but for me, when Siri kicks

00:26:18   something to the screen, it is basically saying, "No, you need your fingers and your eyes on

00:26:23   this. Voice is just not gonna cut it." And I feel like, ultimately, unless I'm asking

00:26:29   like "Show me a picture," like, it should be, the screen should be like annotating the

00:26:35   results not required. And so, and in that context it can be, it can be good to do that.

00:26:43   So I see that with the Echo show already that there are things that, maybe there's some

00:26:50   things that it's punting, but there are also ways where it just gets enhanced by having

00:26:54   that annotation. So like, playing music on the Echo original or the Dot is hit and miss,

00:27:01   I don't know, I assume you've tried this too.

00:27:03   It's like you say play this album and it says,

00:27:05   oh, I can't find that.

00:27:07   And it's 'cause you didn't say it quite right.

00:27:08   - One of the biggest struggles I have is if

00:27:11   there is an album where it also shares the name of a song

00:27:17   and trying to get it to play the album

00:27:19   is basically impossible.

00:27:20   - Yeah, I've had some success in saying play the album

00:27:24   so and so by so and so, but it's hard.

00:27:28   So here's an example that I like,

00:27:30   which is screen is there if you're in a position to interact with the screen you

00:27:33   can say

00:27:34   uh... hey lady

00:27:36   in the plastic box it looks like a t_v_

00:27:39   uh... because of the canister anymore

00:27:41   uh... show me

00:27:43   albums by radio head

00:27:45   uh... okay that's mostly serious and and and it will bring up a list of radio

00:27:49   head albums and you can literally

00:27:52   the from there

00:27:53   if you tap on ok computer

00:27:55   okay computer plays

00:27:57   okay that is where you can say

00:28:00   Hey lady, and it'll be like, they'll be numbered.

00:28:02   Like number one is okay computer.

00:28:03   Number two is the bends.

00:28:04   Number three is in rainbows.

00:28:07   And you can say, hey lady play number one.

00:28:10   And that will also work.

00:28:11   It's the equivalent of the finger tap.

00:28:12   You can do either one. - That is better.

00:28:14   That is better.

00:28:15   - Also you can play Jeopardy.

00:28:16   I should mention that 'cause my kids love it

00:28:18   that if you ask her to play Jeopardy,

00:28:19   Monday through Friday,

00:28:20   it will give you six trivia questions

00:28:22   that are from Jeopardy

00:28:23   with a little blue screen from the TV show Jeopardy.

00:28:25   And you have to answer in the form of a question

00:28:27   like you're playing on Jeopardy.

00:28:28   and occasionally you'll hear Alex Trebek,

00:28:30   the host of Jeopardy's Voice.

00:28:32   That's pretty funny.

00:28:32   There's some room for stuff like that.

00:28:35   It's a good demo

00:28:36   'cause it's like an audio visual experience.

00:28:38   It makes it into something that's not quite a TV,

00:28:40   but not quite a disembodied voice.

00:28:42   - Yeah, and it has the look of something you know as well.

00:28:45   - Exactly, 'cause it puts up the familiar blue card

00:28:48   on the screen, so you feel like you're actually

00:28:50   sort of seeing the show.

00:28:51   So there's a lot of little fun stuff that it's doing.

00:28:54   And that's my point is, I think it's got huge potential,

00:28:57   But the problem is like there's not a lot there right now,

00:28:59   and there's not a lot of customizability right now.

00:29:02   And I can imagine over time,

00:29:05   like the home screen is the great example.

00:29:06   And I wrote about this because it drove me batty.

00:29:09   Like it's very limited what you can do

00:29:11   to customize the home screen.

00:29:12   Basically it's got, the screen is on

00:29:16   and it shows you some stuff

00:29:17   and it'll cycle through some different stuff.

00:29:19   But the amount of control you have over that

00:29:21   is very limited.

00:29:22   There is a setting for the home screen

00:29:25   that's only on the device.

00:29:26   all Amazon Echo users have been trained to do everything through the app on their phone,

00:29:33   right? Everything. You can't do it on the web, really. You have to use the app. And

00:29:36   I look at the app and it has no settings for customizing the home screen. And I write this

00:29:40   article and it's like, "Why can't I customize the home screen?" And somebody says, "Oh,

00:29:44   well there's a different settings menu on the device." What? And it's like, well, you

00:29:49   have to either tell it to show you the settings menu or you can swipe down on the touchscreen

00:29:53   from the top and a little menu comes down and you can tap the gear icon and go to settings

00:29:57   and there's a display options and there are some settings that are in common between the

00:30:01   app and the on-screen settings and then there's some that are different which is so terrible

00:30:07   in so many different ways like you trained us to do the app but now not everything is

00:30:13   in the app so why is everything not in the app still and if you've got a device on device

00:30:19   menu, why not tell people in the app that they need to go to the device to set

00:30:24   their settings, but instead

00:30:26   Amazon has split the difference. So if you go in there and you finally find it,

00:30:29   what you get is a couple switches. You get switches that say, "Do you want to show

00:30:32   calendar events?"

00:30:33   "Do you want to show tips or cues or something like that?"

00:30:38   And you can turn all of them off. Oh, and do you want to cycle through cards,

00:30:43   you know, different items on that screen, or do you want to just

00:30:47   play through them once and then and then stop because that could be distracting. So if you turn all of those off it doesn't really

00:30:54   there's no granularity you you can't as far as I can tell like install like a

00:31:00   skill that puts something cool on the screen and

00:31:05   with everything off it still has stuff on it that is annoying like

00:31:10   with everything off it still will put up it stops saying here's this interesting video of puppies

00:31:17   right, which it does, it's like totally wild car chase video, headlines just kind of appear

00:31:24   by default, it's really annoying, it's like-

00:31:25   So it's just clickbait in your kitchen, basically.

00:31:27   Yeah, it's like spam, yeah, clickbait in your kitchen, exactly right, they're spamming

00:31:30   your kitchen. But you turn all that stuff off and it still will have like, say, "Hey

00:31:37   lady, make me, you know, show me recipes for steak," or something like that. Like, it has

00:31:45   these little hints of like, here's a thing you could say, and they don't go away, and

00:31:48   you can't make them go away. And again, are they helpful? Maybe. If I don't want them,

00:31:54   I should be able to make that go away. I would really like that interface to be really calm

00:31:59   when I'm not using it. I want it to be, I think I want it to be literally the time and

00:32:03   the temperature, right? That's all I want on it. And that's my personal decision. And

00:32:07   I'm sure that at some point I'll be able to do that. But right now, I do not have that

00:32:11   level of control over that thing. I just don't. So you can turn off some of the

00:32:15   garbage but you can't turn it all off and this is an example of it's a brand

00:32:19   new platform it doesn't feel done the software doesn't feel done to me it

00:32:22   feels like Amazon has done what it's done with this product before which is

00:32:25   when the hardware is done they ship it and they say will you know we'll make it

00:32:30   better over time and to their credit the echo has gotten better basically week to

00:32:36   week since they released it it is constantly being updated it is not like

00:32:41   Apple's products that tend to get a revision maybe once a year. This is

00:32:46   kind of constant and that's not just through third-party stuff but the stuff

00:32:50   that Amazon is adding behind the scenes to the service that drives the device.

00:32:55   So this got me thinking right, this is a new type of thing you know for people to

00:33:04   allow a company to create a product that is a persistent screen that is on in

00:33:10   home. I can't think of anything consumer tech wise that is like this. We have these screens

00:33:17   that we have on, but we choose to turn them off. Our computers, our tablets, our phones,

00:33:22   our TVs, we can just turn them off when we don't want them. Or when we're done with them,

00:33:27   perform an action on them and then we stop using the thing. But the Echo Show is always there.

00:33:37   it's always able to show you something, right? The clue is in the name. So I'm wondering,

00:33:42   what level of control should we have of a screen that is always on? And I really feel like,

00:33:52   personally, there should be a million customization options for a product like this.

00:33:57   - I agree.

00:33:58   - Because if I, Amazon, I'm gonna let you come into my home and be on all the time,

00:34:04   This seems to be a two way street.

00:34:06   Like I am going to understand knowing you as a company that you're going to try

00:34:11   and sell me stuff for this screen and that stuff may appear randomly in the home.

00:34:15   Right. Like I get this right.

00:34:16   Like otherwise I wouldn't buy a product from Amazon if I did if you know if I

00:34:20   didn't want that to ever happen to me.

00:34:22   But in exchange I want to be able to be really granular about what is on that

00:34:28   screen. You know like what do I want to be there?

00:34:31   Do I want news or not?

00:34:32   Do I want my calendars or not?

00:34:33   What calendars do I want?

00:34:35   Do I want email to be on this?

00:34:36   I want temperature on there.

00:34:37   Where do I want the temperature to be?

00:34:39   Like I want a million settings for this device

00:34:42   that I can get to.

00:34:44   And again, you can nest them,

00:34:45   you know, you can make them advanced settings,

00:34:47   but I feel like that there should be a two way street.

00:34:50   If I'm gonna let you come in my home

00:34:52   and be a screen that is on 24/7,

00:34:55   then you need to show me what I always wanna see,

00:34:59   not what you think I might wanna see.

00:35:01   Like, this has to be an exchange that it doesn't sound like they're living up to.

00:35:06   There is a tremendous responsibility when you have that screen that's always on

00:35:13   somewhere in the house, I feel.

00:35:14   Tremendous responsibility.

00:35:16   And yes, Amazon does Kindles with special offers and stuff like that.

00:35:20   And I'd actually be okay if they said, well, you can get this for $20 less and

00:35:23   we get to show you things on the screen.

00:35:25   Um, I wouldn't love it, but I could, I, at least there would be a, a, a deal to be

00:35:31   made there and people who don't want to see that stuff could could pay to turn

00:35:35   it off but even then like bill I think billboards in your kitchen and having

00:35:40   this product be viewed as a spamming thing is a is a mistake for Amazon it's

00:35:45   missing the bigger picture because of that responsibility because as accepting

00:35:51   as I am of commerce in many other areas of life to have a device that my family

00:35:56   sees as useful, sitting in the kitchen suddenly be just kind of showing us

00:36:01   distracting garbage on the screen. It's like, I don't want that. And again, every

00:36:06   every family, every person is going to have a different a different take on it,

00:36:10   which is why you have to have that customizability. And hey, if you want to

00:36:13   set it with a certain set of defaults, great. If you want to make it really easy

00:36:17   for people to turn things on and off with voice commands or menus or whatever,

00:36:20   great. But in the end, yes, this product needs to be way more customizable than

00:36:25   it currently is because of the responsibility you have in a situation

00:36:30   like that. I'm happy that in that settings menu that's only available on

00:36:34   the device that I can turn off the the headlines, right, because that makes the

00:36:40   viral videos and clickbait headlines go away and that makes me happy because

00:36:44   those are the ones that really enraged me. In other areas it's like yeah I would

00:36:49   like to say show the weather forecast at all times I would like to say you know

00:36:55   there are things that need to be improved like the calendar support in there right now is really poor

00:36:58   it shows you your next event and if you have an all-day event it just shows you shows it shows

00:37:02   it to you as midnight um and it's it's meaningless and it's like one event it's like i have five

00:37:09   things tomorrow and it's showing me one and it's a thing that just says this is where my son is

00:37:14   going for camp tomorrow it's like because we use all-day events that's that's the thing we use it's

00:37:20   like that needs to be better they need to do a better job of expressing what is coming up uh

00:37:25   if there are multiple events and dealing with all day events better and things like that.

00:37:29   In a way that I really don't understand, like with all of the companies that are currently

00:37:33   making products like this, why they think there's only one person with one set of calendars.

00:37:37   You know, like, if we were going to have this in our home and we want our calendars to be

00:37:42   on it, well, I would want my calendars and Adina's calendars on it and for that to display

00:37:47   that in a clear way, right? And I feel like from what you're explaining to me, it can

00:37:53   can barely even show events correctly, let alone do something which is relatively complex,

00:37:58   you know, as that is to show these multiple people's calendars. But, like, I understand

00:38:02   that, like, families have a family calendar, but, you know, everybody also has their individual

00:38:07   calendars, and it might be nice to show those rather than, you know, just all of Jason's

00:38:11   calendars in the Snell household being the ones that everybody sees rather than their

00:38:15   own individual ones as well.

00:38:16   >> Yeah, we have a shared family calendar, and that's what's on that device. That's what

00:38:20   I have on there so it's not going to show me my stuff but it's going to show the shared

00:38:25   family stuff which seems appropriate so we've got a good calendar for it it just doesn't

00:38:28   display it right and this is again I'm not angry about it I just this is this is just

00:38:33   the facts is that is that this is a product that is you know when you ship the hardware

00:38:37   the hardware is final but the software is never final and the cloud services are never

00:38:41   final and Amazon has chosen to ship it get it out in the world and that's the way they

00:38:46   start building more. There's a basic level that's built in but they start

00:38:50   building more. The more of these they get out there, the early adopters are the

00:38:53   ones who are kind of riding this thing when it's kind of not all there yet and

00:38:58   we're going to figure it out, and their partners who are building the first

00:39:01   video-enabled skills for this, they're part of this journey. And I would

00:39:09   actually bet that in a year that this product is going to be way better than

00:39:13   it is now. But the end, and you know, again, I was just writing on Six Colors about my

00:39:18   frustration with the home screen and I had a bunch of people say, "Wow, here's a really

00:39:20   negative review." And it's like, it's not a review. Everybody thinks everything is a

00:39:23   review. But it's like, it's not a review. It's literally me griping about the home screen

00:39:27   being a mess. But at the end, I do say the home screen is such a mess that you probably

00:39:31   shouldn't buy it yet. Like, it's not going away. Amazon's not going out of business.

00:39:36   They'll keep selling this thing. But right now, be aware that just because the Echo has

00:39:42   become a more sophisticated platform for audio. The video stuff is not. The video

00:39:48   stuff is where the Echo was when it started, which is a few partners, a few

00:39:53   things they're trying, and they'll figure it out as they go. And if you want to

00:39:55   take that ride, great. I think it's kind of fun and interesting. This goes back to

00:40:00   like, I want the Echo in my kitchen because I love it. And then as a writer

00:40:05   and observer of technology, I want the Echo Show in my kitchen because I'm kind

00:40:08   of fascinated about what it does, what it doesn't do, and where their progress is

00:40:12   being made so that's why I am keeping it and am kind of happy to have it even

00:40:18   though it's weird and I don't think I would recommend that most people get one

00:40:24   unless they really are willing to take that journey I mean yeah you can watch

00:40:29   you can watch TV shows and stuff on it too that's the other funny thing through

00:40:33   it's attached to Amazon's video library so if you want to just like watch a TV

00:40:37   show while you're cooking, you could you can do that actually which is

00:40:41   interesting. I think it'll be more interesting when you'll be able to fairly

00:40:45   easily you know maybe tune into like if they if they did integration with your

00:40:50   cable company or something that could be really interesting to say play this

00:40:54   channel and have it just stream that channel in your house. I have Wi-Fi

00:40:58   access through Comcast on my iPad to all live TV in my house right I can stream

00:41:02   all of that when I'm it when I'm at home because Comcast knows I'm on their

00:41:06   network. Like, wouldn't that be interesting if the Echo show also turned into a TV set?

00:41:13   Like it literally is a kitchen TV set. So I could say, "Play this channel," and it would

00:41:17   just stream that live. They're not there yet. Maybe they'll get there sometime and that

00:41:21   would be really interesting, but we'll have to see because, you know, maybe Amazon's like,

00:41:25   "No, we don't want to be a TV. That's not what they want, but we do want you to watch

00:41:28   TV shows on it from Amazon's library." Okay. That would be something. I don't know.

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00:43:50   Jason Snow, I want to talk about expensive smartphones.

00:43:54   Okay, get your checkbook out, Myke.

00:43:57   I don't know, I think I've written three checks in my life.

00:44:02   - Hashtag Myke was right, expensive phones, right?

00:44:07   You always buy more expensive phone than I do.

00:44:09   - I do, I do and we'll see how that ends up shaping up

00:44:12   later this year.

00:44:13   So I wanna set the stage a little bit, Jason Snell,

00:44:15   with some news that had been buzzing around

00:44:17   towards the end of last week.

00:44:19   It's a company called RED, R-E-D, all capital letters.

00:44:23   They make high-end cameras

00:44:26   and they have been for a long time.

00:44:29   My memory of RED, they kind of came out of nowhere

00:44:31   with this product, which was like a HD video camera,

00:44:36   and blew everything else out of the water,

00:44:38   and have continued to do so since they came around.

00:44:41   They make incredible stuff that's used

00:44:44   all over the place now, movies,

00:44:45   technology YouTubers use RED cameras, right?

00:44:49   They are serious, serious hardware.

00:44:52   Well, they have announced out of nowhere

00:44:54   they are making a smartphone. It's an Android device and everything they're saying about this,

00:45:01   if this wasn't a company that had a good track record, I would be screaming vaporware

00:45:11   because it really feels like it. It feels like this is a product that is full of hyperbole

00:45:18   falsification and will never ship. But Red do have a track record of doing things that seem

00:45:28   outside of the realm of technology in the current state. At least that's my feel of them over time,

00:45:35   is that they have always been able to push the envelope past what you think is achievable in the

00:45:42   fields that they're working in, in camera technology. However, saying all of that,

00:45:47   Red are saying that their phone is going to, it's called the Hydrogen. It's going to feature

00:45:52   a 5.7 inch display that can somehow switch between 2D, 3D and what they're calling Holographic

00:45:59   Multi-View Content. It's going to be a modular phone, which is a huge red flag, not like,

00:46:06   this is like a warning flag, to say modular these days is not a good sign. Apparently this phone…

00:46:11   All capital letters red flag.

00:46:13   Yeah, that's what I was trying to avoid. It's shipping in early 2018. They say it's starting at

00:46:19   $1,195 for an aluminium version and $1,595 for a titanium version. There is a ton of stuff about

00:46:28   this which is dubious, but there are people that are excited about it. I'm interested to see if

00:46:35   and what they're able to produce. But I only bring all of this up to set the scene of expensive

00:46:41   smartphones because that is an expensive smartphone. They're making two models and they're both

00:46:47   over $1000. So can Apple do this? Can Apple sell an iPhone that starts at $1000? So I

00:46:59   read a great article on Daring Fireball this week where John Gruber was kind of breaking

00:47:03   down the potential for what the price ranges could be and why they would be that way for

00:47:09   the next three iPhones. So I'm going to try and sum up John's assumptions.

00:47:16   The assumptions are that there will be three iPhones, a 7S, a 7S Plus and an iPhone Pro

00:47:22   we'll call it for the sake of this conversation that will be debuting in September. The iPhone

00:47:28   Pro will be supply constrained because it will be harder to make and the parts will

00:47:32   be more expensive and because of this Apple will charge a higher price for this phone

00:47:38   because they are able to reliably make less of them than usual. It's more expensive to

00:47:44   make, it's harder to make, they can't make as many of them, it's going to be supply constrained.

00:47:48   Charge more money for it. So let's imagine that the iPhone Pro comes in at a similar

00:47:54   price range to this Red phone. Like $1100 for the regular one and then $1300 for the

00:48:00   top of the line one, the iPhone Pro. If this is a price, so I wonder Jason, is this a price?

00:48:07   knowing everything that we think we might know, all the speculation about this phone,

00:48:11   everything we think this phone might have in it, this beautiful edge to edge display,

00:48:15   currently face scanning technology and all of the other bells and whistles, all of the

00:48:20   beautiful materials that an iPhone Pro may hold. Is this a price that you would be willing

00:48:26   to pay for an iPhone? $1100? Would you be willing to pay that?

00:48:32   That was not the question I thought you were going to ask.

00:48:39   I don't know. I mean, amortized over two years, that is $45 a month.

00:48:48   Over three years, that's $30 a month.

00:48:51   We are, although $1,100 for a phone seems ludicrous,

00:48:56   we are currently paying $700, $800 for phones, right?

00:49:01   yep these are these are not despite all of the misconceptions based on carrier subsidies

00:49:09   and contracts this is what phones cost so this is a higher end version of that phone

00:49:14   i would have to think about it again as with so many things that we cover

00:49:20   i would probably need to buy one because i would need to write about it but if i it's kind of hard

00:49:28   hard to imagine, but like if I had no need to do that and I was just a person, I would

00:49:33   consider it, depending on what the details were and how long I thought that I would use

00:49:37   it, two or three years, it might not be unreasonable. This is for a lot of people, as Gruber mentions

00:49:42   in his story, the most important device that they use, right? This is, your iPhone is your

00:49:48   most important device. So would you pay for the best one and then use it for two years?

00:49:54   know, I think it's not unreasonable and I think the fact is what this

00:49:59   conversation is not doing is saying that Apple's gonna make the next iPhone cost

00:50:03   $1,200 and so everybody's gonna have to buy a $1,200 iPhone because what this

00:50:08   seems to be suggesting is that Apple is intending on making an additional model

00:50:13   that is more, I mean, almost aspirational or if you want to put it

00:50:19   this way it's a cutting edge design

00:50:23   that Apple is capable of making,

00:50:27   but not capable of making at their standard price point.

00:50:32   - Or volume, they can't make 80 million of them.

00:50:37   - Yeah, well that too, and it's funny

00:50:39   'cause we talked about that when we were talking

00:50:41   about one of these other devices, the, oh, what was it?

00:50:46   Oh, it was that Andy Rubin phone that still hasn't shipped.

00:50:49   - Yeah, the essential.

00:50:51   - That they admitted that there's no way

00:50:53   they could ship in volume, right?

00:50:56   They were trying to catch people's eyes with their specs

00:50:59   and their cutting edge design,

00:51:01   but all of that was rolled into a phone

00:51:04   that basically can't be made at scale

00:51:06   because it just can't.

00:51:08   And Apple's, one of the Apple's challenges

00:51:10   is everything they do, Gruber mentioned this,

00:51:13   everything they do has to be at scale, right?

00:51:15   This is the most popular single consumer product,

00:51:19   consumer electronics product in the world probably,

00:51:21   or among them, among a handful,

00:51:23   like lots of iPhones get sold every year,

00:51:25   lots and lots and lots.

00:51:27   And so some tech is really cool.

00:51:31   And Apple, I think Apple, there's so much here.

00:51:34   I think Apple's technical people and designers

00:51:38   sometimes get frustrated because they see other people

00:51:42   making cutting edge phone designs

00:51:46   and using cutting edge technology,

00:51:48   like Andy Rubin's phone, maybe like this red phone,

00:51:52   where Apple knows full well how to do all of that.

00:51:57   They've investigated all of that.

00:51:59   And if I'm an Apple,

00:52:00   one of the things that might frustrate me is,

00:52:03   yeah, we can do that too,

00:52:05   if all we wanna do is sell 10,000 of them.

00:52:08   But nothing we do sells 10,000.

00:52:11   Everything we do, if I'm an Apple designer

00:52:13   or a technical person, it's like everything we do,

00:52:15   it's great, everything we do sells millions and millions

00:52:18   and millions of units, but it also means that

00:52:20   we would need millions and millions and millions

00:52:22   of all the parts, which may not be possible.

00:52:25   And then we would need to put them together

00:52:28   at a speed at which we could sell them

00:52:30   as fast as they're being ordered, which is not possible.

00:52:33   So we can't make that.

00:52:35   And that leads to a dangerous perception

00:52:37   that Apple is behind.

00:52:38   And this is one of those like challenges

00:52:42   of being the big dog, is that Apple has to fulfill millions

00:52:47   millions and millions of orders and it's easier in some ways because they get to

00:52:54   buy in bulk, they get big contracts, there are lots of things that play to

00:52:57   their advantage, but if you have technology that is hard to manufacture,

00:53:02   hard to assemble, or not available in volume, and your Apple, it's basically

00:53:10   walled off to you. So I can see the argument that one of the reasons you do

00:53:15   this is because you want to make a phone that shows off what Apple's

00:53:22   capable of,

00:53:25   but it needs to not be the only thing out there because there's no way you can

00:53:29   make enough of them. And you raise the price because it's a premium, it's like

00:53:34   next year's iPhone today, and that cuts down on demand, but it shows you as

00:53:43   being a trailblazer, as being on the cutting edge, and maybe it teaches you

00:53:48   about that technology so that by the time you get to the following fall you

00:53:53   have the ability to sell it in greater volume. I can see that argument, you know,

00:53:59   and the key to it is that you still have regular iPhones at regular prices, right?

00:54:03   That, you know, this is not "let's raise the price on the iPhone $300 or $200 or

00:54:11   whatever this is what if we did this other unicorny kind of product so the

00:54:18   way that I've been thinking about this like what I'd be willing to spend the

00:54:21   money is I think about the last two iPhones that I spent $900 on yeah right

00:54:28   and that kind of weren't really adding much right like really in the grand

00:54:34   scheme of things not a ton you know better processes between that between

00:54:38   the 6 and the 6s and the 6s and the 7.

00:54:41   - Yeah. - Yeah.

00:54:41   - There wasn't really a-- - You had an extra camera.

00:54:44   - Yeah, I mean, so this is the thing, right?

00:54:45   There are things, right, that are nice,

00:54:48   but they're not huge advancements.

00:54:50   They're not like massive leaps, right?

00:54:52   Like the second camera is really great,

00:54:55   but like I don't really use portrait mode that much.

00:54:57   I do use that second camera a lot,

00:54:59   but it's just a nice zoom lens,

00:55:01   but like it doesn't always work, right?

00:55:03   Like I don't actually know that the pictures

00:55:05   are always being taken from that camera

00:55:07   because it doesn't tell you, right?

00:55:09   Like is there enough lighting and all that sort of stuff?

00:55:11   So like it's nice, these are nice advancements,

00:55:15   but are they $900 worth of enhancements?

00:55:17   I don't think so, really, I mean really.

00:55:20   I mean I buy this stuff because I always want

00:55:22   the latest and greatest phone,

00:55:23   which is why I think for a lot of people

00:55:25   listening to this show, people that might be sitting there

00:55:27   saying I'm not gonna pay $1,100 for a phone,

00:55:29   like you know, if you've bought the last two,

00:55:32   then you probably just should,

00:55:35   because how much more of a difference is it?

00:55:37   I guess it depends what phone you're buying, right?

00:55:38   Like I'm buying pluses, so they're approaching a thousand,

00:55:43   if you do the conversion, my phone cost over $1,000, right?

00:55:45   Because I'm buying it in pounds, but like,

00:55:48   I'm already buying the model that's brushing up

00:55:50   against this price anyway.

00:55:52   But like, you know, I am thinking that if this really is

00:55:55   a huge jump forward, then maybe that makes it worth

00:55:59   the additional money.

00:56:00   So there is a thing about this though,

00:56:04   which Gruber points out, which I think is a good argument,

00:56:06   It's an interesting thought experiment.

00:56:09   If Apple do this, there are a lot of people who cannot buy this phone.

00:56:14   It's going to be outside the price range.

00:56:17   If you buy the small phone in the smallest configuration, you're looking at doubling

00:56:23   your price to get this new one.

00:56:27   If there are people that can't afford to buy the new one, would they upgrade to the 7S?

00:56:34   is if they can't buy the best iPhone, why buy a new iPhone at all? Why buy an old iPhone?

00:56:41   It's like, you know, I would imagine for a lot of people it's going to feel like, okay,

00:56:46   so they brought out the new phone, last year's phone got bumped down. That's how the 7S will

00:56:51   feel. It's going to feel like the old phone, even though it's new, because all of the marketing

00:56:56   will be for this new unicorn iPhone Pro. Is this going to be a risk for them? Like, could

00:57:02   Apple end up harming sales of the iPhone line overall because they have this aspirational

00:57:09   phone that some people can't get so they just don't upgrade? They wait until next year?

00:57:14   Do you think that that is a risk?

00:57:15   Yeah, I mean that is, consumer psychology, right, is sometimes more important than, alright,

00:57:24   okay, let me back up. Nerds like to believe, a lot of nerds, that it's all about specs

00:57:32   or it's all about price or it's all about some ratio that can be calculated.

00:57:36   I feel like a lot of people in our atmosphere in our area kind of make

00:57:41   comments like that but you know buying psychology is not always logical and it

00:57:46   had there are lots of unintended consequences of doing things like this

00:57:50   so just the existence of I mean there's so much here just the existence of a

00:57:56   high-end iPhone changes the game because, as Gruber himself has pointed out on many

00:58:04   occasions, the best, you know, everybody drinks the same can of Coke. The President of the

00:58:11   United States and a construction worker drink the same Coke. Everybody has the same iPhone.

00:58:19   You know, everybody gets, there's no Tiffany iPhone, everybody gets the same iPhone. So

00:58:24   So there's a danger in having a higher-end iPhone at all because it makes the other iPhones

00:58:30   seem less special, right?

00:58:34   Even if they're no different, even if the iPhone 7s and 7s Plus are exactly what would

00:58:40   have existed before and would have sold perfectly within expectations before, the existence

00:58:48   of anything above them changes our perception of them. Now they seem older, now they seem

00:58:55   less capable. So there's that. That is an issue. And then there's also this feeling

00:59:01   about the price, that it's like, you know, it's going to make people feel like this is

00:59:06   Apple and this is about perception, not necessarily reality, but it's Apple squeezing more money

00:59:14   out of buyers or it's Apple overpricing its products or it's Apple not caring about the

00:59:19   little guy and going like super premium. There's already this perception that Apple is not

00:59:24   a you know because Apple doesn't play the low-cost game that Apple is already an elitist

00:59:30   company it's it's not make it doesn't make affordable products it's not interested in

00:59:34   those markets and there are lots of reasons why but in the end like if you're somebody

00:59:39   who feels like Apple is kind of gross as a company because it doesn't care about people

00:59:44   who don't have enough money to buy Apple products and it's not interested in exploring those

00:59:49   markets so much, then this fits into that, right? I mean, we know people in our business

00:59:57   who can't let go the gold Apple watch, right? Who can't let go of that and continue to use

01:00:03   it as an example of Apple being out of touch and not making the world a better place. We

01:00:08   We know people who say stuff like that to this day, even though the golden apple watch

01:00:11   is kind of come and gone.

01:00:13   This feeds into that perception, so that's an issue.

01:00:17   So I do think that doing a product like this is risky and could really hurt the iPhone,

01:00:25   but it is a calculation about how you want Apple to be perceived because, like I said

01:00:30   before, on the other hand, you've got other companies making products that have features

01:00:37   that Apple probably wishes they could make but feel like they can't. Then again, that

01:00:41   is not a great excuse for like what Samsung is doing, right? Samsung is kind of advancing

01:00:48   the ball and Samsung has huge volume on their phones. So I don't want to overstep on the

01:00:56   volume thing because if Samsung can do an edge-to-edge OLED display, Apple probably

01:01:02   can too and make it available in high volume. So there is an element of this that is why

01:01:09   can't Apple just make that the new iPhone? Why do they have to make that this high-end

01:01:14   model? And there may be reasons, there may be things that Apple is not willing to do

01:01:19   that Samsung was willing to do in terms of compromise. Who knows? I don't know. We don't

01:01:24   know the details of these phones, but I think it's worth asking that question. What is special

01:01:28   about this phone. Is this phone, if it really does exist, only available at high

01:01:34   prices because of all the things we've detailed here or is it there because

01:01:40   Apple wants to squeeze another year of margin out of the iPhone 6 design family

01:01:48   and doesn't want to give that margin back, the profit margin back on this much

01:01:55   more expensive phone. I think that's a legitimate question. So there's a lot here. But I do

01:02:06   think the buying psychology, they risk devaluing their bread and butter by doing it this way.

01:02:12   So it's a risky move.

01:02:14   It definitely is. It could end up being a big problem for them. It is a gamble. 100%

01:02:19   this is a gamble because they cannot accurately predict the en masse feeling of people. Right?

01:02:25   you can't, you can assume, but like there's no way that they will be able to know what

01:02:29   this would do. But my feeling, my feeling on this, my take on this is that Apple is

01:02:34   trying to protect themselves against the inverse risk, the risk of looking left behind. So

01:02:40   I feel like in a perfect world, there would be two iPhone models and they would both be

01:02:49   next generation, edge to edge, OLED screens, all the bells and whistles, right?

01:02:54   For one, if it's a little bit bigger phone with a much bigger screen, they could even

01:02:59   get away with maybe doing the one and saying we don't even need the Plus anymore.

01:03:03   It's all in here.

01:03:04   I think they will in the future though.

01:03:05   I think that if we get this one model, I think in the future there will be a bigger one,

01:03:10   because then you could put a six inch screen in the size of the Plus.

01:03:14   So you could keep going.

01:03:16   Potentially.

01:03:17   I'm just saying you could extend that argument down to the ultimate simplification, which

01:03:19   is here's our new iPhone.

01:03:21   It's so great we don't even need two of them.

01:03:23   it is for sale. But my question would be, if you're Apple and I come in and say, "Here's

01:03:31   the reality of building this phone," and I'm not saying this is actually what's true, but

01:03:34   let's just do this as a hypothetical. "Here's the reality of what's with this phone." We

01:03:39   can't make it in volume to sell what we sell in the fall. We can't do it because of various

01:03:44   reasons. You can yell at me. I know we've had these conversations before, but, you know,

01:03:49   Mr. Cook, but we can't do it. You know this, it's because of the choice we made about this

01:03:54   screen and it's the choice we made about this sensor and whatever it is, we can't make them

01:03:58   in that volume. You know we can't. We'll get back ordered, they'll be sold out, you're

01:04:02   worried about the numbers being suppressed because people can't get iPhones and they'll

01:04:05   buy something else. So we can't do that. We also, here's how much it's going to cost to

01:04:11   make it, at least at first. And that means that we can't keep our margins and charge

01:04:16   what we charge for the last models or even 50 or $100 more. It has to be more than that

01:04:20   if we're going to do it. So what do we do? Do we not do it? Do we just put it off? We

01:04:25   can give it to you in a year. I know we've been trying for a year to do this phone already,

01:04:29   but we can do it for next year probably. Or we can release it now, but you're going to

01:04:34   have these huge issues. What do you do if you're Tim Cook? And that strikes me as being

01:04:38   the choice, right? Is do you sweep away the old models and release this thing and it's

01:04:46   just not available for a long time and the margins are bad. Do you not do anything and

01:04:52   just not release it and have us push the 7S out there? Or do you compromise and create

01:04:58   this kind of hybrid, which is the rumor that they will ship them both?

01:05:04   This is what I'm getting at, right? Like, this is what I think. Like, in this ideal

01:05:07   world, this is just the new iPhone, but they can't do it now. So what do they do? Do they

01:05:13   wait one more year, but if they do, when people go to the phone stores, you've got this iPhone

01:05:17   which is this way forever, and then around it, all of these Android phones are these

01:05:23   growing screens. And I understand the idea of people being tied to a brand and etc. etc.

01:05:30   But when you're selling 80 million of them, 10% of those people is a significant amount,

01:05:35   right? And if 10% of those people are willing to switch, that's not going to look good for

01:05:39   for the investors.

01:05:41   That's not gonna look good for a company

01:05:43   that's already struggling

01:05:44   because they can't keep their growth going.

01:05:46   You don't wanna start to see a decline

01:05:48   because it looks like the iPhone

01:05:50   is kind of being left in the dust.

01:05:52   So a way that you combat this,

01:05:54   which is the route that I think

01:05:55   that they're going down with this is,

01:05:56   well, we can't do it for everyone,

01:05:58   so let's make this phone that some people are gonna buy,

01:06:01   it's gonna increase our average selling price,

01:06:04   and hopefully we'll still sell

01:06:06   as many iPhones as we would have sold anyway,

01:06:08   and we then keep the perception

01:06:10   that we're doing things well,

01:06:11   we continue to make it for a year over that period of time,

01:06:13   we drive down the cost, and then in 2018,

01:06:16   all of the iPhones that we make can look like this.

01:06:19   This is why I think they're going with this.

01:06:21   I think that in an ideal world,

01:06:24   Apple just has one or two models of the next iPhone

01:06:28   and it's this only one, but they can't.

01:06:31   They just can't do it.

01:06:32   So instead of risking, so they're taking a gamble,

01:06:36   but I think it's the better gamble.

01:06:38   I think this is a better gamble to say,

01:06:41   you know, Apple is making a really expensive phone

01:06:45   is better than Apple can't innovate.

01:06:48   - If you're, I'm gonna agree with you here,

01:06:53   but let me, if this is one year in,

01:06:58   if this is when the six is out,

01:07:01   or if there's two years in and a 6S is out,

01:07:06   I can see the argument of putting it off and letting the existing stuff ride.

01:07:14   But I agree with you that what tilts this approach toward being the right one is this

01:07:22   perception that Apple has not done a whole lot.

01:07:27   Perception, but that it's a real perception exists.

01:07:31   Like perception is, oh, it doesn't look any different.

01:07:33   though we know that the insides get changed and all of those things. The perception that

01:07:36   Apple is going to for four years in a row release basically the same shape phone and

01:07:43   it'll just have some differences on the inside. Like, that is tough, right? And that that

01:07:50   puts on the pressure to show something different. And to get back to that Red phone or the Andy

01:07:55   Ruben phone. I think Apple from a point of pride and a point of

01:08:05   branding does not want to be perceived as making boring phones that because

01:08:12   part of Apple's brand and part of Apple's cache is that they are on the

01:08:15   cutting edge and I think that some of this is probably motivated by, you

01:08:23   know you can call it pride if you want to make it personal or you can call it

01:08:27   branding if you want to make it more technical and business-appropriate but

01:08:32   either way it's the idea that there's cool stuff out there that you can do

01:08:35   with phones and we're not allowed to do it because X because of our market

01:08:39   dominance because of the huge number that we sell which is great but it is

01:08:44   simultaneously eroding our perception in the market as being cool so how do we

01:08:49   make a cool phone and if we have to ship millions of them we can't do it. So what

01:08:54   do we do? And that's that moment where you say, "You know what? We have to make a

01:08:58   cool phone. We have to." Even if it hurts the perception of the other phones, we

01:09:03   have to make the cool phone because at some point they're gonna take...

01:09:06   everybody's just gonna think that Apple's phones are boring. And, you

01:09:10   know, the question is gonna be if it doesn't work everybody will be like, "Well,

01:09:17   why did you throw over your incredibly profitable business out of fear of

01:09:22   boredom but it does seem like it's a very Apple trait going back through you

01:09:27   know in the culture that Steve Jobs instilled in this company to throw out

01:09:31   to risk throwing out the old popular thing in order to do what is clearly the

01:09:37   future but it might be a rough ride if the market doesn't you know the the

01:09:42   buyers don't like the fact that it exists if we assume that this phone is

01:09:45   the future of the iPhone and that in a year or two all iPhones will be like this phone,

01:09:51   I think it's a stronger argument but it is totally a risk. And picking the right time

01:09:56   to do it, last year, this year, next year, that's why they pay the CEOs the big bucks.

01:10:02   There is an argument that you can make, that Apple can make, and they can write this for

01:10:06   one year. Like if they see a dip, you know, you can make the argument of, "We have to

01:10:12   to do this, we have to move forward the iPhone to the next 10 years. You can make that argument

01:10:18   that one time. If you're going to do it, the anniversary is the right time to do it because

01:10:23   you can use the company's history, the product's history, and you can do all of that stuff.

01:10:29   This is the, if you're going to do this, you do it now. I feel that they would potentially

01:10:34   be making the right decision if that's the route that they go through.

01:10:37   Yeah, yeah, I mean that's you've got lots of fig leaves to use to explain why you're taking this gamble and potentially harming your key product.

01:10:45   But, and you say this is for the future. We have to do this now because we, this is Apple and we have to do this now.

01:10:52   But it's a tough one because they're saying that but they're still selling us, you know, if they're still selling a 7S then you're not really entirely embracing the future.

01:11:02   You're just sort of, you know, but that goes back to the problem is whatever design that they have

01:11:07   created here, apparently it's not something that they can they can ship in volume at the right

01:11:11   price. And that maybe, I don't want to take that as a given because I think it's worth saying this

01:11:19   could all be because of a colossal miscalculation on Apple's part in terms of the design.

01:11:23   They may have been, I don't want to say it's like this is just naturally, this is how it

01:11:28   had to happen, it's entirely possible that their reach just exceeded their grasp and

01:11:33   they designed this phone that they're now committed to, that this is the design they've

01:11:37   got for their next generation phone, and they can't ship it in volume. And I would argue

01:11:44   that when you go into a project like this, you're probably going in assuming it's going

01:11:47   to be the next iPhone and you're just going to swap it in for the existing iPhone. And

01:11:51   the fact that they might potentially have to do this third iPhone, we can tell the story

01:11:55   about how Apple wants to be cutting edge,

01:11:57   you could also turn it around and say,

01:11:59   this is because whoever designed this thing

01:12:02   made some decisions that led to it being not shippable.

01:12:07   So they have to make do with this.

01:12:10   And that may also be true.

01:12:12   It's hard to tell because that is incredibly esoteric stuff

01:12:15   that you have to be deep down inside of Apple

01:12:17   and the suppliers and everything else to understand.

01:12:20   But I think it's worth at least considering that,

01:12:22   that Apple would not choose, I think, to do it this way.

01:12:25   This may just be where they are with the hand

01:12:28   that they've been dealt.

01:12:30   Yes, but it's not random.

01:12:33   Like decisions were made to make that card in the hand

01:12:36   that they've been dealt.

01:12:37   And those decisions were made by the people building

01:12:41   the next generation iPhone.

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01:13:55   Ready for Ask Upgrade, Jason?

01:13:56   I am always ready for Ask Upgrade.

01:13:59   Today's first question comes from Benny.

01:14:01   Do you think that the iPad Pro will get improved next year, maybe with better screens, better

01:14:06   processors?

01:14:07   Do we think that in 2018 there will be new iPad Pros?

01:14:14   I don't know.

01:14:18   I'm kind of 50/50 on it.

01:14:19   I feel like there don't need to be I would like to see them because I would like to see

01:14:24   Apple say we love the iPad Pro and we're going to keep it updated but I think they could

01:14:32   go a year and a half if they needed to.

01:14:37   So I don't know I don't know I'd say I'm 50/50 on it like if they've got a next generation

01:14:43   iPad Pro that does other cool stuff that's great but like the problem with the iPad Pro

01:14:47   I feel like the hardware is great. I don't feel like in two years or certainly I don't

01:14:51   feel like in a year everybody's gonna be looking at the iPad Pro saying, "Oh boy, it's getting

01:14:57   old. It needs to be updated." I feel like the hardware is so good, in fact, are arguably

01:15:01   so far ahead of what is even needed on the platform right now that Apple's got other

01:15:06   fish to fry and they may be, you know, if it goes a year and a half or two years, I

01:15:09   think it's okay. So it doesn't mean they won't do an update on it, but I'm not sure they

01:15:14   need to.

01:15:15   Yeah, I'm tracing along that line as well. I think that the iPad Pro line will be a minimum

01:15:22   18 month refresh going forward. Yeah. And I think that's totally fine. There may come

01:15:27   a time when we look at the iPad and go, wow, this iPad's getting slow, where's the new

01:15:31   iPad? But right now that's not the case. Like it's so much more powerful than almost anything

01:15:36   that the platform is actually being asked to do that I don't think it's necessary. I

01:15:41   it's more likely that there'll be some iOS innovation hopefully in the next you

01:15:45   know two years that really requires more RAM or more processor that makes them be

01:15:52   prompted to do an update so that will be the hardware that best runs iOS 12 or

01:15:57   something like that but I doubt that will happen next year.

01:16:02   Michael wants to know do you still give the trip mode app for Mac your

01:16:06   recommendation? Michael's going on the trip soon and may need to use tethering

01:16:11   quite a bit. Yes, two thumbs up indeed. They just came out with a new version,

01:16:16   it's great. I highly recommend it to anybody who's tethering on a Mac because

01:16:20   you can choose, you can toggle it on and choose app by app what gets data and

01:16:26   what does not get data and that is huge because the Mac doesn't really have a

01:16:31   conception of that and so it'll be doing like crazy high bandwidth things in the

01:16:37   background thinking it's on Wi-Fi when it's actually on Wi-Fi attached to a

01:16:41   cellular device. So trip mode lets you shut everything off and selectively

01:16:45   turn things on. You can see how much data everything is using and turn off

01:16:49   apps that are using too much data. Highly recommended. It's great.

01:16:53   And it's not that expensive either. I forget what it is but it's cheap. It's worth it.

01:16:57   There's a Windows version too. There is. I'm looking at the page right now.

01:17:03   Yeah, if that's what you do.

01:17:04   It's $799.

01:17:06   - And you don't need it on iOS

01:17:07   because iOS actually has it built into the operating system.

01:17:09   It knows the, iOS knows the difference

01:17:11   between cellular and Wi-Fi,

01:17:13   which unfortunately the Mac doesn't.

01:17:17   - Jay Mush asked, "Why aren't there a bunch

01:17:20   of uncertified smart connector accessories on eBay,

01:17:23   like how it was with Lightning?"

01:17:24   - Why aren't there, I turn this around and say,

01:17:28   "Why aren't there a lot of smart connector devices

01:17:30   in general?"

01:17:31   suspect they're related. So part of it is there aren't that many iPads out there.

01:17:35   There are iPads out there, but like compared to iPhones, the number of iPad

01:17:40   iPad Pros is small and only the iPad Pro has the smart connector. So it's a

01:17:46   limited market and then I think the reason that we haven't seen smart

01:17:51   connector accessories in general is probably because the smart connector has

01:17:54   some limited use. That it was largely designed for Apple for the smart

01:18:00   keyboard and it's a it's open I think in the sense that Apple maybe had an

01:18:07   argument about internally about other iPad keyboards and somebody agreed that

01:18:12   why not make it open why not work with Logitech to do a smart connector based

01:18:18   keyboard as well which they did they made the the create and so it feels to

01:18:25   me like a thing that was really designed for Apple and then to do keyboards and

01:18:29   and then kind of repurposed to be a little bit broader

01:18:34   but it's a very limited connector

01:18:37   and so I think that's the answer is it's limited in what it can do and it's got a

01:18:42   very limited market

01:18:43   and if you're gonna go to the trouble of making a keyboard that works with a

01:18:46   smart connector

01:18:47   you would want it to be legit

01:18:51   so what are you left with like maybe some weird charger

01:18:54   thing like a Apple pencil charger dongle

01:18:58   I don't know. It's just not worth it.

01:19:01   So I think this goes back to the smart connector being of incredibly narrow, limited use more than anything else.

01:19:07   Oliver asked, "I'm thinking about replacing my dead MacBook Pro with an iPad Pro.

01:19:12   Apart from iCloud Photo Library, what photo backup service would you recommend?"

01:19:17   There are many others. I mean, I use iCloud Photo Library.

01:19:20   You could use Google Photos. You could use Dropbox, which will let you do that.

01:19:24   which will let you do that.

01:19:25   You just have to pay, you know,

01:19:26   you have to pay for storage depending on what you wanna do,

01:19:29   but there are options.

01:19:30   The only, I think, challenge is that the, the iPad,

01:19:34   the iCloud photo library is gonna be the most reliable

01:19:37   because it's integrated into the system.

01:19:39   And sometimes you may need to like launch

01:19:42   the other third-party apps that do backups

01:19:44   so that they can work in packing up your photos.

01:19:47   But there are, from your Mac, I mean,

01:19:51   well, if your MacBook Pro is dead,

01:19:52   then where are your photos right now?

01:19:55   But if you got them off of them,

01:19:57   you could upload them sort of to any service.

01:19:59   And I mean, I don't have a comprehensive review

01:20:04   of all these services.

01:20:06   The Google, people seem to really like the Google service.

01:20:09   I know if you're a Dropbox user

01:20:10   and you've got a lot of Dropbox storage,

01:20:12   Dropbox really wants you to share your photos

01:20:14   and save your photos with them

01:20:16   because that ties you more to their service.

01:20:18   And then iCloud is, I find it very reliable

01:20:21   and the price is actually not bad.

01:20:22   So.

01:20:23   - Wiki asked, "We've heard nothing about the retin monitors

01:20:26   "to replace the cinema display.

01:20:27   "Do you still think they're coming?"

01:20:29   - Apple said they're coming

01:20:31   when they said that they were doing a Mac Pro.

01:20:34   - We won't hear anything about those

01:20:36   until the Mac Pro pops up.

01:20:38   - Yeah, I think that's exactly it,

01:20:39   is that that will be something that gets announced

01:20:41   when the Mac Pro gets announced,

01:20:42   because it probably was a decision

01:20:44   that was made alongside the decision to do the new Mac Pro.

01:20:48   And so I think, I don't think,

01:20:50   even though they could release it

01:20:51   and use it with a MacBook Pro or the iMac Pro

01:20:54   or the iMac even, my gut feeling is they won't.

01:20:58   I hope they do, but I do think they're still coming.

01:21:01   I think it's just not a priority

01:21:04   because it's really perceived at least

01:21:07   as being tied to that new Mac Pro.

01:21:08   So it's gonna be a while.

01:21:09   - Frank asked, what are the chances, do we believe,

01:21:14   of upgraded AirPod hardware this fall

01:21:17   trying to decide if it's worth buying a pair now?

01:21:20   I feel like we talked about this a while ago.

01:21:25   I think the chances are low

01:21:27   because I think the AirPods are fine.

01:21:30   And I think that it's a brand new product

01:21:32   which means they were ahead of their time.

01:21:36   They were kind of pushed into the market.

01:21:38   They're still kind of, I think, struggling to meet demand.

01:21:41   They're a cutting edge product.

01:21:42   So what you wanna do is let that product stay there

01:21:45   for a while and get good at making it

01:21:47   and improve your profit margins on everyone you sell.

01:21:51   It's got some upgradeable software in it.

01:21:54   So like even iOS 11 makes better use of them.

01:21:57   Also, I think it's possible that since it's such a brand new

01:22:01   cutting edge product that Apple may even be doing

01:22:04   hardware tweaks behind the scenes,

01:22:07   but won't disclose them and won't market them.

01:22:12   So it's entirely possible with a product like this

01:22:14   that Apple may make changes to what's in them

01:22:16   and how they work and not say anything

01:22:19   because from the customer's perspective,

01:22:20   they're exactly the same

01:22:22   and they could do a slipstream hardware change

01:22:24   and until somebody took them apart,

01:22:26   nobody would really,

01:22:27   or somebody at the Apple store squealed,

01:22:30   nobody would know the difference

01:22:31   because it wouldn't be about features,

01:22:32   it would just be about functionality.

01:22:35   Now, the hedge I'll put in here is,

01:22:38   I could see them maybe doing something with color,

01:22:43   but that would be it.

01:22:45   I doubt that the hardware is gonna change anytime soon.

01:22:49   - Yeah, if you have the ability to buy AirPods,

01:22:52   get them now.

01:22:53   I mean, really, aside from cosmetic,

01:22:57   I can't imagine there being any changes

01:22:59   that are really gonna make it so much better.

01:23:00   Like, okay, let's say battery life.

01:23:02   Battery is fantastic on these things.

01:23:04   Like, you're good.

01:23:06   Right, like I charge them every time

01:23:08   I think about charging them,

01:23:10   but I've never even hit a battery warning

01:23:11   and I use them all the time.

01:23:14   - Agreed.

01:23:15   You know, they could be smaller,

01:23:18   although the problem is physics, right?

01:23:21   You've gotta have room for the battery

01:23:22   and you've gotta have room to have enough antenna space

01:23:25   that you can receive.

01:23:26   - And to be able to hold them.

01:23:27   You gotta be able to take them out of your ears.

01:23:28   - Well, that's true.

01:23:29   The stems could be shorter, right?

01:23:32   They could be a little bit shorter.

01:23:33   But is that enough of a reason?

01:23:35   I just don't see it.

01:23:36   I feel like this is a product

01:23:38   that Apple's probably pretty happy with

01:23:39   and that nobody's thinking, "Oh, I don't know.

01:23:41   The AirPods are kinda long in the tooth.

01:23:42   I feel like the AirPods are good.

01:23:44   They're good for a while."

01:23:45   and color is the only thing that strikes me

01:23:47   as something they could do fairly easily, right?

01:23:49   Because that's just literally changing the plastic.

01:23:52   And that would be fun.

01:23:54   That would actually be a really fun refresh

01:23:56   for the holidays.

01:23:57   So I will put that out as a small possibility

01:24:01   that we'd get them in black

01:24:03   or maybe even get them in a few different colors

01:24:06   so that you could choose,

01:24:07   even though Apple lately is still pretty monochrome.

01:24:10   - Sounds like a draw off pick to me, Jason.

01:24:12   - I think that's, yeah, that's right.

01:24:14   we may be able to put that on the iPhone event draft.

01:24:17   I think colored AirPods is a good one for that

01:24:19   'cause it might happen, but it might not.

01:24:22   - Finally today, Raphael asked,

01:24:23   "Does Mac OS High Sierra bring some changes

01:24:26   "to the Mac App Store like iOS 11

01:24:28   "has brought to the iPhone App Store?"

01:24:30   Jason, does the App Store look any different on High Sierra?

01:24:35   - I don't even remember.

01:24:38   I gotta be honest. - I'm gonna assume

01:24:39   it's a no, right?

01:24:40   'Cause I feel like we maybe know about it.

01:24:42   Now I know that, I believe it was during the talk show event

01:24:46   that they mentioned that there would be stuff coming to,

01:24:51   like some of the new features would be coming to

01:24:53   the Mac App Store, but if it's going to happen,

01:24:58   I don't think we're seeing it right now.

01:25:01   - I think it's possible that the Mac App Store

01:25:04   will get a makeover, but I think it's less likely

01:25:08   that they're gonna have like expansive feature stories

01:25:12   on the Mac App Store.

01:25:13   It's possible, but it's not,

01:25:16   my guess is it's more like they're gonna roll that out

01:25:18   on iOS and then maybe someday they'll do it on the Mac too.

01:25:21   But I don't know for certain, I'm trying to picture it.

01:25:23   They are bringing that design to other things in macOS,

01:25:27   but I'm not sure it's coming to the Mac App Store or not.

01:25:30   I can't recall.

01:25:31   I haven't spent a lot of time in High Sierra

01:25:33   and especially in the App Store app in High Sierra lately,

01:25:36   although there's new betas.

01:25:38   So everybody can rush out and update to the new betas

01:25:40   and see what's changed.

01:25:41   because that always happens. There's new betas when we do an upgrade, Myke.

01:25:45   Is there new iOS betas?

01:25:47   Yeah, new betas.

01:25:49   Oh, I'm really happy because I've been having some weirdo stuff.

01:25:53   Well, we'll see if this will fix those weirdo things and cause some new weirdo things.

01:25:58   I'll introduce new ones. I like new weird things rather than the same weird things, you know?

01:26:02   It's great. New weird things are the best. Yeah, sure.

01:26:06   Yay, betas! Okay, so that's something to do when we're done today.

01:26:10   Thanks so much for listening to this week's episode of Upgrade.

01:26:13   I want to take a moment again to thank our fine sponsors, the folk over at Squarespace,

01:26:18   Encapsula and Away for supporting this week's episode.

01:26:22   Of course, as always, thank you for listening.

01:26:25   We could not do this show without your kind...

01:26:28   I can't think of...

01:26:30   Listenership?

01:26:31   Patronage isn't the right word.

01:26:33   Just support.

01:26:34   There we go.

01:26:35   We'll go for that.

01:26:36   Your support.

01:26:37   Without your support, this show wouldn't happen.

01:26:38   So thank you so much for listening.

01:26:39   If you enjoy the show, why don't you share it with a friend?

01:26:42   It actually really does make a difference.

01:26:44   If you have somebody in your life that you think might enjoy Upgrade, why don't you tell

01:26:47   them to go check it out because those Jason and Myke guys, they're really fun to listen

01:26:51   to.

01:26:52   If you want to find Jason's work online, he's over at the incomparable.com, sixcolors.com

01:26:56   and he is @jsnell, J S N E double L on Twitter.

01:27:00   I am @imike, I M Y K E. Maybe as well if you listen to Upgrade and don't listen to any

01:27:05   any other relay FM shows, just go to relay.fm/shows and pick something else.

01:27:09   There's going to be something else in there that is for you.

01:27:11   I am sure of it.

01:27:13   We'll be back next time.

01:27:14   Don't forget #AskUpgrade for your Ask Upgrade questions.

01:27:18   #SNELTalk for your SNEL Talk questions.

01:27:20   Until then, take a Bioness's now.

01:27:22   Adios Miguel.

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