148: I Think I Think What You Think


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:08   From relay FM, this is Upgrade episode 148. Today's show is brought to you by Casper,

00:00:15   Freshbooks, and Encapsula. My name is Myke Hurley, I'm joined by Jason Snell.

00:00:19   Hi Myke Hurley, how are you?

00:00:21   I'm very well Jason Snell, how are you?

00:00:23   I'm enjoying um, patriotic holidays. That's what I'm doing.

00:00:29   doing. It is the Independence Day long weekend in the United States. It was just the 150th

00:00:38   Canada Day in Canada. So North America is just one big, festive, red, white, and sometimes

00:00:44   blue party.

00:00:46   MATT PORTER, JAYSUN, "Frank would like to know for #SnellTalk this week, what is your

00:00:51   favorite snack?"

00:00:52   I will refer Frank to episode 108 of the Robot or Not podcast, which was just posted last

00:01:01   week, in which I declare my love for peanut butter in all its forms. It is my favorite

00:01:08   food. It is absolutely my favorite snack. So peanut butter, that's it, right out of

00:01:14   the jar? Yeah, uh-huh. Yeah, I'll do that. Right out of the jar.

00:01:17   Yeah, see I'm pretty sure we've actually had a "what is your favorite food" question

00:01:21   somewhere.

00:01:22   I think we have, because it was clear at that point that my favorite food would kill you.

00:01:29   So you know.

00:01:30   But it's interesting that not only is your favorite food peanut butter, your favorite

00:01:34   snack is peanut butter.

00:01:35   I wonder what else peanut butter fills.

00:01:37   I wonder what other categories in your life, favorite thing to buy of Apple Pay?

00:01:42   Peanut butter, right?

00:01:43   Like the list goes on.

00:01:45   it, I once had a, despite peanut butter being my favorite food, I went to this restaurant

00:01:51   when I was visiting family in Pennsylvania and they brought the dessert menu out and

00:01:55   it had peanut butter pie on it, which is a thing that exists, but I had literally never

00:01:59   heard of peanut butter pie before and I said, "Well, bring that to me now." And it's pretty

00:02:05   great. So peanut butter, you know, is it my favorite dessert? I don't know. I really like

00:02:09   peanut butter frozen yogurt. If I go to a frozen yogurt place, I will get the peanut

00:02:12   butter flavor if it's there. There are good ones, there are bad ones, but they're all

00:02:17   peanut butter, so they're all okay. Yeah. Love it. I'll have it for breakfast, I'll

00:02:21   have it for lunch.

00:02:23   Maybe one day I'll buy some EpiPens and I'll come over to California and you can give me

00:02:31   a taste of the amazing peanut butter that you like.

00:02:34   I'm sure there's a peanut butter flavor that is entirely devoid of actual peanuts.

00:02:39   I wonder.

00:02:40   They probably make that.

00:02:41   If anybody knows of such a thing that exists, let me know.

00:02:45   It won't taste like peanuts at all, but you know, maybe it exists. I'm totally artificial

00:02:50   peanut flavoring. Talking about things that shouldn't exist at all.

00:02:54   Haha, yeah, oh boy. The Galaxy Note 7 FE, which is actually known

00:03:01   as the Galaxy Note 7 Fandom Edition, that is what the FE stands for, is going on sale

00:03:07   July 7th in Korea, this is a refurbished version of the Galaxy Note 7s that were recalled.

00:03:17   So Samsung is trying to put back into the market all of the handsets that they had to

00:03:23   bring back. They're saying that it's featuring different components to the original. I don't

00:03:28   get this.

00:03:29   These are also, I just want to be clear, these are the ones that didn't explode. They didn't

00:03:35   refurbish the ones that blew up.

00:03:37   the ones that didn't explode. At this point I wouldn't have put it past them. You had

00:03:40   to bring them back in and now they're selling them for fans, for the fans. The fandom. For

00:03:46   the people who just, they wish they had that Galaxy Note 7 and they didn't get it and now

00:03:49   they're gonna finally get it with a battery that is apparently much less capable than

00:03:56   the one because that seemed to be the source of the problem. You calling your contacts

00:04:00   in Korea now, Myke? Trying to get a Galaxy Note 7 FE? Oh, you know me. FE stands for

00:04:05   For phones explode. Phones explode. Phones explode. I like that Jason. Phones explode.

00:04:11   Yep. We're just months away from the Galaxy Note 8. Because it debuts before the iPhone.

00:04:20   This is such a strange thing. I mean I can obviously see why they're doing this because

00:04:25   they have a warehouse full of Galaxy Note 7s and they're just trying to get some out

00:04:31   there like just just get rid of some of these but it's like just don't like I

00:04:37   know why you're doing it Samsung but just just don't this is why people look

00:04:41   at your company and say silly things about your company it's why you get

00:04:45   weird headlines right like these are the bad decisions that you make and this is

00:04:49   just one of them. I look at this and think there's a manager somewhere who is looking at the

00:05:00   cost of these things that are in the warehouse and is making a case, right, making a claim

00:05:06   saying, "You know, we could sell these maybe in certain markets like our home market of

00:05:16   Korea and make some money out of these things because they're perfectly good with the battery

00:05:24   replaced and if we do that we'll cut our losses and we'll limit it to these

00:05:31   markets so you know where we're impervious and maybe not put it

00:05:35   elsewhere but we'll sell some here and we'll make some money and look at

00:05:38   how the budget will be improved by this. I imagine there's someone made a

00:05:43   business argument somewhere and how yeah I mean I get it like on one level you

00:05:50   want to sweep it under the rug on the other level it's an opportunity for them

00:05:54   to make some of the money back that they lost in this thing. I don't know. From an optics

00:06:00   perspective you'd kind of want to just let it be. Fandom Edition is also such a weird

00:06:07   name. I do wonder if it's literally the way this is being marketed is people who love

00:06:11   Samsung and buy all the Galaxy Note models are really sad that they can't have a Galaxy

00:06:16   Note in their collection.

00:06:17   Well, and also like people loved that phone, right? And like were unwilling to give it

00:06:23   back to the point that Samsung had to brick the phones to make people send them in, right?

00:06:28   So this is them saying, "Alright, if you really want it, you can have it." But it's

00:06:34   uh, yeah, it's weird. You'd think that you'd want to move on, but Samsung does

00:06:37   lots of things we don't understand. And uh, yeah, that's, that's uh, it's weird.

00:06:44   it's really weird. By all accounts it was a good phone other than the exploding so I

00:06:48   guess I can see that but the Galaxy Note 8 is going to come out so yeah it's weird. We

00:06:55   don't understand Samsung.

00:06:56   "Last week Bloomberg posted a big article claiming that Apple is working with Hertz,

00:07:04   the rental car company, to manage its self-driving fleet. That is the headline. Apple is working

00:07:10   of Hertz to manage its self-driving fleet. In the article they note that Apple is leasing

00:07:15   a small fleet from Hertz for their cars and compares it to the deal that Alphabet and

00:07:21   Avis have together for working on self-driving technology. This is a collaboration between

00:07:26   these two companies to try and work on self-driving cars. Because of this news, as you can imagine,

00:07:32   the shares for Hertz skyrocketed. But it came out a little bit later on in the week that

00:07:39   There is no story here, and that Apple are literally just leasing six cars from Hertz

00:07:45   that they are outfitting with their technology, and there is no special deal. Apple later

00:07:50   told CNBC that they are, like, categorically, we are not partnering with Hertz. What is

00:07:57   going on here?

00:07:59   I really like this, Myke. I think that this is something that we should take up in our

00:08:02   daily lives, and just stick with me here for a moment. Like, I got an Amazon package yesterday,

00:08:06   so I'd like to announce I'm partnering with Amazon.

00:08:08   - Oh, congratulations.

00:08:10   - Thank you.

00:08:11   I've got a new relationship with Amazon

00:08:12   that involves branding and e-commerce.

00:08:15   That is the incomparable incorporated sixcolors.com

00:08:18   and me personally, Jason Snell.

00:08:19   I have that deal with Amazon now.

00:08:22   So we've extended that relationship.

00:08:23   The details of the relationship are kind of,

00:08:25   I'm gonna keep it under wraps,

00:08:26   but it mostly involves me giving them money

00:08:28   and then putting cardboard boxes in front of my door.

00:08:31   But we'll see where it goes from there.

00:08:32   So I hope my investors are excited about that.

00:08:36   I'm also happy to announce that I have a relationship, I'm partnering with Comcast. That relationship

00:08:44   is they are providing me, they're the exclusive provider of internet access in my house, in

00:08:49   the, sorry, in the headquarters of the Incomparable Incorporated, exclusive access. Also, we cut

00:08:55   an entertainment deal on the side. They're also my entertainment provider partnership.

00:08:59   So I think that's going to be big. I think it's going to be really big.

00:09:02   I have some late-breaking news, Jason Snapp, some late-breaking news straight from the

00:09:08   market floor that both Comcast and Amazon shares have skyrocketed upon the news of a

00:09:15   very recent and sudden and strong partnership collaboration effort. This is ridiculous,

00:09:22   right? This is just… I don't know what Bloomberg was doing here. I don't know if

00:09:28   they heard something and misinterpreted it or they're just trying to make a story out

00:09:35   of nothing. But it's like they wrote this entire article which had just one sentence

00:09:44   that was of any interest and they spun this one sentence into this entire piece which

00:09:51   which then created this effect. And I've got to say, this is the start of a... Not start,

00:09:58   this is indicative of a trend at Bloomberg right now, which we have spoken about. We

00:10:03   had spoken about it last week with the, talking about the Apple rumors and stuff. It seems

00:10:10   like that they have a habit right now of finding out one little thing and then making a huge

00:10:16   big story out of it.

00:10:20   The fact is that this happens in journalism a lot, where you get a source, and especially

00:10:31   in modern web journalism, you get a source and you get a tidbit of info, and what you

00:10:40   do is you write a whole story around it. And I mean, I've seen this, and this happens not

00:10:44   even when you're doing reporting, but this is also how reblogging goes, where I read

00:10:51   a story the other day that was based on an interview on another website, and to their

00:10:55   – no, sorry, it was based on three different interviews on another website, and this story

00:11:00   wove those three interviews together with background information. It was very expertly

00:11:06   done, but contained no new information. It was literally just strip mining other people's

00:11:13   stories and organizing it into a new way. So that's just a thing that we deal with on

00:11:17   the web these days and the Bloomberg stories are a little bit like that where, you know,

00:11:21   they got a tidbit, an original reported tidbit from someone and then you build your narrative

00:11:27   around it. And so like literally you could have a story with one piece of information

00:11:33   which is you know a guy at Apple or at Hertz or somewhere in between who says, "Hey, did

00:11:41   you know, I'm just giving you a tip here, that Apple is getting into bed with Hertz.

00:11:47   They've got a small fleet of cars that they have leased involved, and it's the self-driving

00:11:52   stuff. So they're making a deal. Apple's making a deal with Hertz on this, and so it's big

00:11:57   news you should report on that. And it's gonna be, and so they've got the details, it's like

00:12:03   their Lexuses, they're leased from Hertz's fleet management unit, and then what do you

00:12:11   do with that story? And the answer is you write a story with a big headline that

00:12:14   says "Apple's working with Hertz" and then your lead is "Apple's leasing a

00:12:20   small fleet, they're going to lease this model, Apple declined to comment" and then

00:12:28   you throw in like background. So it's "Here's what's Hertz stock performance is"

00:12:32   and "Alphabets deal with AVIS" and that draws a parallel and then you

00:12:38   You throw in a paragraph of background, which is here's what's happened with the Apple car

00:12:42   project in the past, and Tim Cook said, you know, last month that they are working on

00:12:47   something. And you end up with this big story, it's not that big, but it's like a six, seven

00:12:50   paragraph story, that's really based, you could really summarize in one sentence in

00:12:54   terms of the initial information, which is Apple is leasing some cars from Hertz related

00:13:00   to their self-driving fleet, and it's small and there may only be a half dozen of them.

00:13:05   Okay, it's not much of a story then, so you build it up in the narrative.

00:13:09   And that happens sometimes, we've seen it with Mark Gurman's stories, which at 9to5Mac

00:13:14   were pretty no-nonsense of here's what I've heard and here's the background.

00:13:19   And since he's been to Bloomberg, one of the things that happened is you've seen more co-buy

00:13:23   lines where he's put on with someone else, and you've seen these kind of more fluffed

00:13:29   up expansive stories where more narrative is put into it, wrapping around what the actual

00:13:37   nuggets of information are. And that just seems to be the approach Bloomberg is taking

00:13:41   to this sort of thing. And not just Bloomberg, I think a lot of news organizations do this

00:13:46   sort of thing when you've got scraps and you're trying to make something out of the scraps.

00:13:50   It's just a silly story. The other thing that I think is kind of funny is that why aren't

00:13:56   Apple just buying six cars. Why are they leasing and then like drilling holes in these cars?

00:14:01   Like just buy the cars. It's really weird. It does seem a little weird. I wonder if there's

00:14:06   something about like them, there's a reason why it's a better thing legally or in some

00:14:13   other way to lease cars rather than buy them for a part of this project. I don't know,

00:14:18   but it does seem like they could write it. It feels like an accounting thing to me, honestly.

00:14:21   go down to the Lexus dealer, buy some cars, have them sent over. Also, I will say, this

00:14:30   is an interesting example when Apple actually told CNBC that there's no special deal there.

00:14:38   Like, there's an Apple decline to comment in the Bloomberg story. So, what seems to

00:14:45   have happened here is Apple has done its reflexive "we're not talking about this, we're just

00:14:50   gonna keep everything quiet. And then they saw this story take off and they

00:14:56   saw Hertz shares go up and somebody at Apple saw all of this and said "no no no

00:15:02   no no no we got to get out there." Now I would like I'm gonna say that Apple PR

00:15:12   should maybe look at this as an example of how you don't... your old classic

00:15:20   decades-long policy of reflexively declining to comment or occasionally

00:15:25   saying you'll get back to somebody and then never doing it, this is a good

00:15:30   example why maybe that's not a great standard policy. Maybe you should process

00:15:34   these requests a little bit more, knowing that Bloomberg is going to write a big

00:15:37   story about your connections to Hertz, which maybe as a PR person you don't

00:15:41   know anything about, maybe do a little research and find out what's going on there and give

00:15:46   an actual reply to Bloomberg that says, "No, no, no. This is overstated. We have rented

00:15:53   at least six cars for this project that we're working on. It's not a big deal." At which

00:15:58   point Bloomberg actually might not run the story, right? But instead they're just like,

00:16:03   "No, we have nothing to say." Bloomberg runs the story, Hertz stock goes up, and then somebody

00:16:06   had Apple decides to put their foot down and tell CNBC that it's overblown. It's weird.

00:16:15   In other words, Apple could have nipped this story in the bud because really if Apple had

00:16:19   come back to these writers and said, "No, you got it wrong. We're not commenting you

00:16:26   here guys. Literally, you got it wrong. If you think that a half dozen cars that we're

00:16:32   like six cars is newsworthy than go to town, but it's just part of our everyday operations

00:16:40   when we're working on projects. And then they could run that story if they wanted to, but

00:16:44   it certainly would have been a lot less interesting. Then again, I'll take it from the reporter's

00:16:49   side, you kind of don't want Apple to get back to you, right? Because they might pop

00:16:54   your balloon. So you almost want them to decline comment, or if they don't get back to you

00:16:59   you right away be like, "Oh, they didn't respond," which is what Hertz did. Hertz just didn't

00:17:02   respond in time for them to post the article. It's like, "Well, that's good because then

00:17:05   they have an article. Otherwise, they don't have an article." I don't know. It's just

00:17:09   weird that Apple declined comment and then felt the need later to burst the bubble.

00:17:14   Yeah, I wonder what decline to comment means. Like, if it means that they were like, "We're

00:17:19   not talking about this," or they just didn't bother to reply because it was a stupid thing.

00:17:24   Decline to comment means that they said that they didn't have any statement about it.

00:17:31   So what would they say, like Apple didn't reply to requests or whatever?

00:17:35   Well here's the sentence in the story, "An Apple spokesman declined to comment while

00:17:38   a representative for Hertz didn't immediately respond to a request for comment." And that's

00:17:43   the difference.

00:17:44   Immediately. You have 20 seconds.

00:17:48   Yeah my guess is they called Hertz and said, "So we got this story, you got any comment?"

00:17:52   and they're like, "Let me get back to you," and you wait.

00:17:54   And I will say, yes, maybe you wait a minute

00:17:58   and then you post the article.

00:17:59   But I will say I have written articles

00:18:02   where I've really wanted an Apple comment

00:18:04   and I called Apple and said, "I got this article.

00:18:08   "I would like a comment."

00:18:10   And they've said, instead of,

00:18:11   "We don't have a comment on that,"

00:18:12   they've said, "I get what you're saying.

00:18:15   "Let me go get, let me talk to some people

00:18:17   "and I will get you a comment."

00:18:18   And I've held the story.

00:18:20   In one case, we held it for a couple of days.

00:18:23   They never responded.

00:18:25   And at some point, as a journalist, at some point,

00:18:27   you've got to be like, I'm not just going to wait around.

00:18:29   Because I definitely have felt played in the past by sources

00:18:32   where they're just trying to put you off the story.

00:18:35   And they're never going to get back to you.

00:18:37   Yeah.

00:18:37   And you don't want to sit on it for too long,

00:18:39   because then somebody else is going to post it.

00:18:41   Exactly.

00:18:42   And it's like, yeah, I mean, I'm doing you a courtesy

00:18:45   by letting you go on the record about what I'm writing about.

00:18:48   but I'm not gonna let you delay my story for three days.

00:18:52   So get back to me in a reasonable amount of time.

00:18:54   So that could be the case here, or it could literally be.

00:18:56   They said, because they said immediate,

00:18:58   I wonder Bloomberg must have a policy

00:19:00   of what immediate means.

00:19:01   Like if it's less than a day,

00:19:03   or if it's less than six hours,

00:19:04   or if it's less than an hour,

00:19:05   I don't know what the policy is,

00:19:07   but it wouldn't surprise me if they actually have a policy

00:19:10   about what makes it an immediate,

00:19:13   didn't immediately respond,

00:19:14   because you could see how a source might get frustrated

00:19:17   they respond in an hour, and it doesn't matter because they, you know, "Hey, could you help

00:19:21   me out? I need you to clarify this thing about your car leases." Okay, well, I'm going to

00:19:24   have to talk to people who I'm not even sure who knows about this, but I will try to get

00:19:28   back to you as soon as I can, and then you turn around and you start finding that person

00:19:31   in your organization and, oh, meanwhile Bloomberg already posted the story. Like, I can understand

00:19:35   how that would be really frustrating if you're the person trying to get the comment and they

00:19:39   just are going through the motions, but we don't know what the background news gathering

00:19:46   here is. But in the end it ends up being the story that boosts the stock. The story has

00:19:50   been updated to reflect the boosting of the stock, which I think is interesting. And then,

00:19:58   but not updated with the statement that they gave to CNBC.

00:20:00   Yeah, I noticed that too. Like, why didn't they put the Apple comment back in? Because

00:20:07   the answer to the story has been given. Like, yeah, it was given to CNBC, but like, just

00:20:11   link to CNBC now.

00:20:14   I think if you asked the editors at Bloomberg, what they'd say is their story is not factually

00:20:18   inaccurate. They say it's a small fleet. They say it's testing self-driving technology.

00:20:25   Their suggestion in the lead that it echoes a larger deal is the problem, right? Because

00:20:30   that is providing a linkage to the Alphabet and Avis deal.

00:20:34   And the fact that in the copy, in the story, they literally call out that deal. They refer

00:20:40   to it.

00:20:41   Right.

00:20:42   And it's like, "Oh no, we just mentioned it."

00:20:43   - Paul said no.

00:20:44   - Yeah.

00:20:45   (laughing)

00:20:46   - Like, you know, we're just bringing it up.

00:20:47   But like, no, you bring it up

00:20:48   because then it makes it look like

00:20:50   it's a bigger thing, I guess.

00:20:51   Anyway, this isn't much of a story

00:20:55   other than it's, I think it is just an interesting indication

00:21:00   about where a lot of these stories live now,

00:21:04   like the kind of the world that they're operating in

00:21:07   with like any piece of information

00:21:09   and you'll post it and it becomes a big deal,

00:21:11   big enough that it literally affects the value of another company.

00:21:16   Myke, this is Justin. I'm happy to report that I now have a strategic relationship with

00:21:22   the peanut butter producers of America.

00:21:24   Oh, congratulations. That must mean a lot to you.

00:21:27   It does mean a lot to me. I'm going to be purchasing peanut butter, American-made peanut

00:21:32   butter, and eating it. So that's a strategic partnership where they make peanut butter,

00:21:38   And that's their strategy, and I buy it and eat it, and that's my strategy.

00:21:41   So I think this is going to be great news for the peanut butter industry.

00:21:46   I just had the peanut butter industry get in contact with me, Jason, to say that this

00:21:51   is merely just a one tub a month deal.

00:21:54   It's not like a big, big partnership.

00:21:58   Well, I think, Myke, I think what you'll find is that it parallels your deal with the ice

00:22:04   cream producers of the UK.

00:22:05   Mm-hmm.

00:22:06   I'm pretty sure.

00:22:08   It mirrors, it echoes, well it echoes that deal. It's not quite the same, but it echoes

00:22:13   it, I think you'll find.

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00:24:26   So Jason, I saw an article that you wrote on Macworld, when you're extolling the virtues

00:24:33   of the keyboard on the 10.5 inch iPad Pro.

00:24:36   Yes. I did write that article. I'm glad you found it. I'm glad you read it.

00:24:40   I'm always looking. I'm always looking. Like, what's Jason up to now? I have tabs on it.

00:24:44   The 10.5, look, it's, I mean, I did the measurements. It's a few millimeters wider. It's like, it's

00:24:50   not that much wider than the 9.7 was, but for making a full-size keyboard by the way

00:25:02   the definition Apple has chosen, it is wider enough that there's that much, if you think

00:25:09   about it, the wider the iPad is, the wider the Smart Cover is, because the Smart Cover

00:25:16   is the exact dimensions of the screen of the iPad and of the whole thing, screen plus bezel.

00:25:24   And they've redesigned the smart cover a little bit, or the smart keyboard I guess, not smart

00:25:28   cover, smart keyboard, the keyboard that lives inside a cover. And it means that those letter

00:25:32   keys are now what they would call full size. There's actually an ISO standard which is

00:25:38   basically 17 to 19 millimeters between the centers of the key caps is what's considered

00:25:44   a full-size keyboard. And these are 17 millimeters, they are the smallest keycaps you can have

00:25:53   and call it full-size. But they are, and they actually shrunk some other keys to do that.

00:25:59   And the result is that, yeah, I think typing on the 10.5 is even better than typing on

00:26:03   the 9.7 was, and I liked the 9.7 smart keyboard. And the 10.5 smart keyboard is that much better.

00:26:10   Plus, you get the wider screen, right? So the on-screen keyboard is also better because

00:26:16   it's bigger. They just scaled it up. It's literally just stretched wider. I checked.

00:26:22   I checked. They didn't reformat, it seems, anything, at least so far, unless they change

00:26:29   it in iOS 11 at some point. It's just every keycap is a little bit wider, which means,

00:26:34   again, it's not quite the size of the 12.9, which has the full-size keyboard on-screen

00:26:39   with a number row at the top, but it's way better. And so that's one of those things.

00:26:45   It's like we've talked about the screen being better on the 10.5 than the 9.7, and that's

00:26:50   true, but don't miss the other part of it, which is that the keyboard is better. And

00:26:55   on iOS 11, you also get that Flick keyboard, which is even better once you get used to

00:26:59   it because then you've got quick access to the secondary keys, secondary symbols without

00:27:05   having to toggle into another mode. So the typing story on the 10.5 I think is way better

00:27:12   than the 9.7. And not to say the 9.7 is bad, but if you're a 9.7 iPad Pro user and you're

00:27:17   looking to upgrade and find a reason to upgrade to the 10.5, I would say typing is a thing

00:27:22   to keep in mind. Now it's true you have to buy all your accessories again because you

00:27:25   can't really, you shouldn't really use the smart keyboard from one on the other and the

00:27:30   whole point is that you want the bigger keys. But yeah, I think it's pretty good. I don't

00:27:34   do you have all of this, right? You have a smart keyboard on a 10.5. Have you found it

00:27:39   to be?

00:27:40   >> It feels more comfortable. I mean, I noticed it almost immediately just by looking at it,

00:27:45   which is kind of weird. Like, the first time that I saw one of the keyboards, I couldn't--when

00:27:49   I looked at the iPad, I couldn't tell that the iPad was physically bigger. But as soon

00:27:53   as I saw the keyboard, I was like, "That's bigger." I don't know why, but it was just

00:27:56   something in my brain where I was like, "Yep, I know that." And I've been happy with it.

00:28:00   I will say last week I was working out of the house for a day or two and I was kind

00:28:08   of like around London and just like finding different places that I needed to go and in

00:28:13   between meetings and stuff we're just going to coffee shops and just setting up and I

00:28:16   was using the 10.5 for it and that is such a great, my god it's such a great iPad to

00:28:23   work on.

00:28:25   It doesn't, as we said before, it doesn't have all of the benefits of the 12.9 but that

00:28:30   kind of middle ground of the full-size keyboard, the 10.5 inch screen, which is bigger, so

00:28:36   it's nicer just because everything's bigger because the screen's bigger.

00:28:39   So you get, you know, you can kind of, whilst you don't get the ability to, you know, have

00:28:45   the full-sized applications side by side, you can like zoom out on them more and stuff

00:28:49   like that.

00:28:50   Like I'm able to zoom out more on spreadsheets and things like that because I have more physical

00:28:54   space to deal with.

00:28:56   And I've been really, really impressed with it.

00:28:58   like everything is more comfortable, the keyboard is great, the screen is fantastic, like that

00:29:03   is an absolutely fantastic iPad.

00:29:08   It is even more like an iPad that I'm even more happy to use when traveling.

00:29:13   So like I'm going to be traveling a lot over the summer and I've been deliberating or was

00:29:19   deliberating right.

00:29:20   Do I take the 12.9 or the 10.5?

00:29:22   I wasn't sure.

00:29:23   And whilst I still haven't come to my complete decision, it isn't a case now of like, oh

00:29:28   the screen's too small, that's not gonna be the reason. So I'm really, really impressed

00:29:34   with the 10.5. And I've been using it just more and more at home and stuff like that.

00:29:38   It really is just an absolutely fantastic iPad.

00:29:42   I've been trying to travel with both of them, so I'm taking a couple of short trips over

00:29:49   the last couple of weeks. And it's because I want to try both of them out. And yeah,

00:29:54   I'm still trying to write my final statement about the iPad Pro because I haven't gotten

00:29:59   to that because there's been so much else going on. But I agree with you. I think the

00:30:03   10.5 is excellent. As a 12.9 user, I love the 12.9. I really do. It is huge, but I love

00:30:11   it. And iOS 11 on it, which we can talk about a little bit more, makes it that much better.

00:30:16   The apps are big. It's great. When I use the 10.5, I still feel like, wow, this is small.

00:30:24   there's less room for everything than I'm used to on the 12.9, but it's better than

00:30:28   the 9.5 or the 9.8, right? It's better, it's bigger without feeling bigger or heavier,

00:30:36   really. And I think I've reached the same conclusion you have, which is I would probably

00:30:45   enjoy my experience more on the 12.9, just because I do love that big screen, but could

00:30:52   I travel without any hesitation about, like, "I really need to be the 12.9 because..."

00:31:00   with this 10.5, it's like, "Yeah, I would. I would travel." It's the same processor,

00:31:04   you know, it does everything that the 12.9 does. The screen's just a little bit smaller,

00:31:09   and it's lighter. And yeah, I could do what I do on the 12.9 just fine on the 10.5. It

00:31:16   wouldn't be... it would feel a little more cramped, and I might have to do a little more

00:31:20   kind of moving things around on screen than I have to do on the 12.9, but it's an incredibly

00:31:25   capable device to the point where I would say like there's like a pie chart of appropriate

00:31:31   users for the 12.9 and the 9.7 and now we update that pie chart for appropriate users

00:31:38   for the 12.9 and the 10.5. I feel like the already majority of the pie chart that was

00:31:43   the 9.7 gets a little bit bigger because I feel like this will push a few more people

00:31:50   over to saying, you know, I don't need the bigger iPad. And that's fine. I still love

00:31:55   that 12.9 and I'm glad it exists. I would have been very sad if it had been eliminated,

00:31:59   but yeah, I think the 10.5 is appreciably better than the 9.7 in a bunch of different

00:32:05   ways that make it a more usable device. I am very sad, as you are, that Logitech has,

00:32:13   so far at least, chosen not to make a create keyboard for it.

00:32:16   I chose to make a terrible keyboard. It's not just so much that they didn't make a create,

00:32:20   they made a decision instead to make one of the worst keyboards I've ever used, which is the...

00:32:25   - Not that you're bitter. - Not that I'm bitter at all.

00:32:28   What is it called? The Slim something or other?

00:32:32   - Yeah. - Oh, it's so bad.

00:32:33   Just, I hate it. I really, I really, really hate it.

00:32:37   Slim Combo. That's it. The Slim Combo.

00:32:39   We like the 9.7 create.

00:32:43   And so, where's the 10.5? There's a larger

00:32:46   issue that I'm going to write about at some point, which is, again, what is the deal with

00:32:51   the smart keyboard or the smart connector? Just like so few products with the smart connector.

00:32:59   Obviously it's got some issues, but I like the idea of creating keyboards for the iPad,

00:33:06   and maybe it's just the size of the market. Maybe people are concerned that they can't

00:33:10   make enough money on an iPad keyboard that only works on the iPad Pro, one model of the

00:33:15   the iPad Pro but that create keyboard was really good for the 9.7 it would be you know

00:33:23   you use it all the time imagine that but a little bit bigger on the 10.5 not the giant

00:33:29   shell the MacBook Air shell that's the 12.9 create keyboard but the 9.7 so good a 10.5

00:33:36   would be that much better and for whatever reason Logitech seems to just not again they

00:33:43   might be working on it and there's something going on and they can't announce it. But the

00:33:48   lack of any comment about it makes me concerned that it's just not going to happen. And it's

00:33:53   too bad. Not to say that the smart keyboard isn't good. The smart keyboard is good and

00:33:57   you can use it in all sorts of circumstances. It's a good keyboard. But the create keyboard

00:34:04   was, for people who really want to use a keyboard, was that much better.

00:34:08   I think that annoyed me is like they made a product called the slim folio for the iPad

00:34:15   the current standard 329 iPad which is the create without the loo with Bluetooth with

00:34:24   Bluetooth but they didn't make a version of the create or haven't made a version of the

00:34:30   create for the new iPads but I don't know whatever come on Logitech or like anybody

00:34:36   really? Like, why is it just Logitech? It's not called the Logitech smart connector, right?

00:34:42   Like, come on. What's going on here? Someone needs to do some digging on this to find out

00:34:47   what is happening with the smart connector.

00:34:49   I agree. Yeah, and if there's anybody out there, we don't do this often, but I'll say

00:34:55   if there's anybody out there who knows what the deal is with the smart connector and why

00:35:00   accessory vendors are kind of hesitant to do it, if they're technical issues or if it's

00:35:03   literally just like the market's not big enough. You would think that there would be some sort

00:35:10   of market here, but maybe not. I don't know. I would love to hear about it. I know Myke

00:35:16   would love to hear about it because where are they? The iPad Pro is--Apple, I'll put

00:35:24   it this way, Apple is providing an opening here. Apple has not yet made a more traditional

00:35:30   laptop style keyboard for the iPad Pro. Apple has declined to do that and I'm a

00:35:35   little bit baffled by that. I know the smart keyboard is their thing and it's

00:35:41   where the first product to do this at all and maybe they think this

00:35:47   is enough or maybe they have to start somewhere but like there are

00:35:50   opportunities to get in on the ground with this iPad Pro and say we've got a

00:35:57   better solution than Apple for you people who are doing your work and your

00:36:01   those fortune 500 companies that are embracing the iPad and like we can get

00:36:04   you something that's that's more a little more keyboard than what you get

00:36:09   with a smart keyboard and yet there are very few that do that it's a little bit

00:36:15   it's disappointing I'll say that so let's talk about iOS 11 I have been

00:36:22   been holding off installing iOS 11 onto my iPads for a couple of reasons. I mean, one,

00:36:29   you know, people say don't put betas on your work devices. Well, these are my primary work

00:36:35   devices, both of my iPads, right? The 10.5, the 12.9. That is where if I'm not recording

00:36:40   and editing a podcast, all of the other work that comes with running my business is done

00:36:45   from those machines. So I've been a bit hesitant. This hesitance came from the fact that beta

00:36:50   and bricked both of my iPads and I had to restore them.

00:36:54   But then the temptation got to me and I installed the developer beta 2 on my 12.9 inch iPad

00:37:04   this morning.

00:37:05   This was mostly because this was in our document today and I woke up to a message from Jason,

00:37:11   two messages, I think something to the effect of like, "Come on, just install it now."

00:37:16   Do it!

00:37:17   Do it!

00:37:18   So at that point, Jason pushed me over the edge and I installed Beta 2 this morning and

00:37:23   it went fine and I can tell there is a massive difference between Beta 1 and Beta 2 and just

00:37:29   general reliability.

00:37:31   I was having a lot of problems with Beta 1, just like everything was like shaking around

00:37:35   all over the place, like it was not good.

00:37:38   And Beta 2 is way better.

00:37:40   Which I think is the public beta.

00:37:41   I think the second developer beta is basically the public beta.

00:37:44   So that's the one that anybody can sign up for.

00:37:46   Yep.

00:37:47   You've been running the betas since WWDC, right?

00:37:51   - Yeah, I would say, yeah.

00:37:54   So I installed it on a secondary iPad

00:37:56   when developer beta one came out.

00:38:01   But when I got the new iPads,

00:38:03   I didn't wait too long before I installed.

00:38:07   So I got a 12.9 and the 10.5.

00:38:10   And so I installed the beta on the 12.9 almost right away,

00:38:14   figuring that it was based on a backup of my personal 12.9,

00:38:19   and this is the one I got for the review.

00:38:22   And so if there was a problem,

00:38:26   I would just pick up the real 12.9 and use that,

00:38:30   my previous one.

00:38:31   But I then went, after a few days,

00:38:38   I went and installed it on the 10.5,

00:38:41   because really it is night and day.

00:38:45   Like again, if you absolutely have to rely

00:38:48   on everything working right on your iPad,

00:38:51   you shouldn't install a beta, especially in early beta,

00:38:53   because things are broken.

00:38:56   There are things that I try to do.

00:38:57   Like I have it where occasionally command tab

00:39:00   just stops working.

00:39:01   Or if you use the four finger gesture to move between apps

00:39:06   in beta two, I have apps that just freeze

00:39:10   when you try to do that. That you switch to the other app and then they freeze and you've

00:39:14   got to kind of go to the lock screen and unlock it and then wait for it to quit before you

00:39:18   can move on with your life.

00:39:20   And there's stuff like in Tweetbot for example, if you paste the link into the compose box

00:39:25   it immediately crashes every single time.

00:39:28   Yeah.

00:39:29   By the way there is a workaround for this. If you paste the link before you write any

00:39:33   other text it won't crash. Just a quick FYI for anyone.

00:39:38   In Twitterific there's a weird bug where when you paste a link in at the end of a tweet,

00:39:43   it shows it pasted into the beginning of the tweet and then it moves to the right place.

00:39:50   It's super weird.

00:39:51   I think there's something to do with the drag and drop stuff is messing around with copy

00:39:57   paste.

00:39:58   Yeah, and then another one that gets me, and this is actually a workflow issue that I did

00:40:02   have to deal with, which is literally because I have these workflows in

00:40:07   workflow that resize photos and upload them to my server for six colors and

00:40:14   using transmit the FTP app and they don't work. It gets to the transmit

00:40:19   step and just stops. And so I let panic know and I let workflow know. Um, and

00:40:27   it's fine because it's a beta. Like I'm not going to get mad at anybody

00:40:30   about it other than myself maybe. That's what happens. But this is what I'm saying is you

00:40:36   gotta pay right now. If you want to get the benefits of the multitasking stuff now, you

00:40:42   gotta pay now. Now for us, we talk about this stuff, I think it's worth taking that as part

00:40:49   of our jobs, taking that risk a little bit. I have found that you can work with them and

00:40:55   bugs are not horrible, you can deal with them, and the trade-off I get is that I get to experience

00:41:01   and think about and write about these features, and maybe even, Dan and I were talking about

00:41:07   this the other day on the Six Colors podcast, maybe even influence it a little bit, because

00:41:12   I've seen, like Matthew Panzareno had a really nice Twitter thread that, you know, I hope

00:41:18   he filed some radars too, but he had a really nice Twitter thread about some of the UI things

00:41:23   that are in these early betas of iOS 11 that just seem like misguided or wrong. And now

00:41:28   is the time for those of us who use this stuff a lot to write articles and post tweets and

00:41:35   file radars and say don't let this ship to stuff that isn't quite right. Because there's

00:41:43   definitely stuff in there that is new interface stuff that doesn't work right. That like you

00:41:51   you shouldn't do it this way. And some of that stuff, it may be stuff we get used to

00:41:55   and we deal with it and we move on, but some of it feels like it's just misguided and the

00:42:00   more people who say, "Why is it like this?" the more somebody inside Apple has ammunition

00:42:05   to say, "See, I told you we shouldn't do it this way," and maybe change it.

00:42:11   So what are some of the things for you right now that are sticking out, good and bad?

00:42:19   Well, on the good, and I haven't even put it on my iPhone because I don't see the point,

00:42:24   because really I installed it for the iPad stuff. I'm looking forward to using drag and

00:42:30   drop, but drag and drop right now is kind of, until there are betas of third-party apps

00:42:35   I use that support drag and drop more explicitly right now, it's really hit and miss, so I

00:42:39   kind of don't bother a lot of the time. So for me, it is the multitasking stuff, primarily,

00:42:44   fact that I can have two windows open in split view and a slide-over window

00:42:50   running and the slide-over window can be left or right, the fact that I can have

00:42:55   those two windows live together so that I can have Twitter and Slack open side

00:43:00   by side in one and my text editor and Safari open in another and I can command

00:43:06   tab between them, that's great. That's that moment where I'm like, "Oh yeah!" and

00:43:10   the command tab is fast, it basically just does a dissolve, a really fast

00:43:14   dissolve and you've gone from your these two apps to these other two apps and

00:43:18   they get to sit there in the configuration you set them in because

00:43:21   remember in iOS 10 you can only have one sort of secondary app that you set and

00:43:26   if you switch command tab to a different app the the left app changes but the

00:43:31   right app just stays there and in iOS 11 that concept is gone which is great

00:43:36   which is not to say that it couldn't be better but it's so much better than what

00:43:39   was there before. So for me, that's the number one.

00:43:44   That's an interesting thing to point out because I know for a lot of people, that change has

00:43:49   been a problem and I thought that it was going to be a problem for me, right? Because I would

00:43:54   do so much work where I would have, I would basically be using three applications and

00:44:00   the way that I would do it is so like I'll give the biggest one for me is when I'm preparing

00:44:04   for shows. I would have Google Docs on the right hand side, so it's in the non-moving

00:44:09   side, and then on the left hand side I would have Notes. And what would happen is I would

00:44:15   be going through my Notes document where I've been saving links and stuff throughout the

00:44:18   week, I would tap on a link, it would switch out to Safari, I would read the articles that

00:44:23   I need to read, copy and paste the things that I need, and then just Command Tab, and

00:44:27   that Command Tab would swap me right back to Notes again. And this is just something

00:44:32   that I've really gotten to use and that is the way that I work, right? And I do it for

00:44:37   like when we're sending out invoices and stuff, then I'll have like a web browser, I have

00:44:42   two web browsers, don't ask, and Google Sheets and would like I'll be swapping between Safari

00:44:47   and Google Sheets with Chrome on the right hand side. Like, what? Great, right? That's

00:44:51   how I would do it. And I've realized quite quickly, ah, can't do that anymore, right?

00:44:59   that doesn't work. If you command tab, it takes you to a complete full screen app or

00:45:04   another pair or something like that. But the way that I was doing it this morning, because

00:45:09   I prepared for this show using iOS 11, I waited until I'd update it before I did it so I could

00:45:13   try and work it out. It's just a case of changing things around. So one thing that I was, the

00:45:17   way I was doing it this morning, is I would have Google Docs and a web browser open. So

00:45:24   I'd have Google Docs and Safari open,

00:45:26   and then I would have notes in that little slide over app.

00:45:29   So I would just slide it over, click the link,

00:45:32   it would open in Safari, slide it away again,

00:45:34   and then I can use the two and bring it back when I need it.

00:45:37   So it's just a case for me of adapting to the new method,

00:45:42   and while it feels weird right now,

00:45:45   it's because I've had two years of muscle memory

00:45:49   to build these workflows that I currently have,

00:45:51   like the way that I'm currently working on my iPad,

00:45:54   it's been that way forever,

00:45:56   but it doesn't mean that that was better.

00:45:58   Like for example, I spent, I'm not kidding,

00:46:01   45 seconds yesterday trying to find an app

00:46:05   in the current split view picker on iOS 10.

00:46:08   So I was just swiping through the list,

00:46:09   I was like I know it's here somewhere,

00:46:11   and I'm doing it the whole time,

00:46:12   and then I realized if I was on iOS 11,

00:46:15   I would just swipe up from the dock and just drag it up.

00:46:19   And just for an hour today of doing this, I'm like,

00:46:23   oh, this is really, I'm zipping around the system.

00:46:27   You just gotta lock into it, but it's like,

00:46:30   okay, so I can just bring up this app

00:46:32   and then I can swap it around with this one,

00:46:33   and then I can search for this app

00:46:35   and it brings open a full screen,

00:46:36   and then I just bring up the doc

00:46:37   and just drag another app in.

00:46:38   And I was doing something earlier,

00:46:40   I was watching a YouTube video in the YouTube app, right?

00:46:43   And then I needed to respond to a message

00:46:47   and I needed to copy something out of an email,

00:46:49   so I brought up the two applications, did that, right, did the work that I needed, swiped

00:46:53   up from the dock, and then the recent thing was the YouTube app. I just pressed it and

00:46:56   it pulled the YouTube video back again. And like, iOS 11, me and you are gonna be real

00:47:00   good friends.

00:47:01   Yeah, you talk about the muscle memory, I think that's one of the challenges when you're

00:47:06   using a beta is, and you're evaluating it and you're writing or talking about it, is

00:47:12   trying to keep in mind that everything is different, and different doesn't necessarily

00:47:19   mean bad, because the danger is that everything you see that's different, you go, "Oh, this

00:47:28   is bad, they should go back to the way it was," and then you complain about it or you

00:47:31   file a bug or whatever. And that's one of the tricks I've found, is like, you gotta

00:47:37   really think about it like, "Do I react to this because it's different or because there

00:47:42   are reasons why it doesn't work for me?" And that's just a challenge. So when, you know,

00:47:49   some of the stuff that comes up in a new system I end up embracing and being like, "Oh yeah,

00:47:55   okay, I see why they did it. I just need to live with it for a while." And other things,

00:47:59   if you go through that process and try to say, "Now why am I reacting this way to this?

00:48:03   was I doing before? Is there another way to do this now? Or is this a mistake? Because

00:48:08   it's just so easy to just have that knee-jerk reaction of, "Oh, it's different. I don't

00:48:11   like it. Make it back to the way it was." And sometimes changes can be bad, but sometimes

00:48:16   it's just change and you're reacting to it. So I will give you an example of something

00:48:21   that somebody came up with. Was it Federico? Somebody mentioned, maybe Steve John Smith,

00:48:27   But it was a really good point, which is, to your old workflow, one thing you can't

00:48:35   do is pair two apps together and then pair another app with one of those previous apps.

00:48:43   Like, they only have one buddy, and I get why that would be a thing that you would do

00:48:51   if you're Apple, because it sort of simplifies the whole process not to have different instances

00:48:56   of the app displaying in the app switcher and all of that, but I can see how in different

00:49:01   workflows you might want to have the same app recur, like I want this app in Safari,

00:49:06   but I also want this app in Safari. And in iOS 11, at least so far, that's not something

00:49:11   you're allowed to do. And that's, and slide over might be a workaround there, but I could

00:49:16   see like the argument that that's a case where is there a workaround like slide over and

00:49:22   is that enough or is this something that really it should be able to do it but I also feel

00:49:26   a little bit ungrateful even talking about it because it's like it's so much better than

00:49:30   it was yeah and like I said it could be better there are some things that I don't entirely

00:49:36   endorse but it's so much better than it was so yeah that's that's the challenge the multitasking

00:49:42   I mean I gotta say I think they I think they kind of nailed it searching is another thing

00:49:46   right we in a multitasking context you you still can't like search for an app and then

00:49:51   drop it in. It has to be in the dock or in the recent part of the dock.

00:49:56   Well you can search through Spotlight and then pull it in. So for someone like me who's

00:50:01   a keyboard user, right, like I'm a persistent keyboard user with my iPad, that works fine

00:50:07   because I can Spotlight search and then drag and drop from the Spotlight results. But I

00:50:11   know that it's not as easy to do this if you don't have a keyboard all the time. But that

00:50:16   works great for me.

00:50:17   And I imagine that's that's the thing making that more searchable. I imagine is something that is going to happen

00:50:23   In fact, I was finding that I wanted the command tab switcher to allow me to just touch on one of them and say drag

00:50:32   It over here and is like nope that

00:50:34   Not allowed I'll be nice. I tried to do that too where I was like, oh, why do I need to?

00:50:39   I just need to bring it in. Let me just drag it straight out

00:50:41   Yeah, I you know you touch on something there that I do feel it's like I feel like I feel like I can't criticize

00:50:46   criticize, I'm scared they're gonna take it away from me. Right? Like, you asked for

00:50:51   this, don't start saying we're doing it wrong now because we'll take it away.

00:50:55   Multitasking has been removed in public beta 2. You ungrateful people.

00:50:59   How dare you. There is one thing though, Jason, where I completely agree with you, right?

00:51:03   Sometimes, don't just say something bad or worse, get used to it first and then see how

00:51:08   you feel. I agree with that. However, the notification center is a disaster right now.

00:51:16   There are a ton of different things that are wrong with it.

00:51:19   Now the idea of merging the lock screen

00:51:22   and notification center, I know why that's problematic

00:51:27   and some people don't like it, right?

00:51:29   'Cause it's like what is the lock state or whatever,

00:51:31   but from a functional perspective,

00:51:33   that doesn't bother me too much, right?

00:51:36   Like whatever, right?

00:51:38   I've just got the time there now instead.

00:51:39   I mean admittedly I'm not using this on an iPhone.

00:51:42   I don't know how it is on an iPhone,

00:51:43   if it's different in any way or if it's trickier

00:51:45   or more confusing, but it's like, okay, whatever.

00:51:48   My problem is, so I'm coming at this from the iPad,

00:51:51   one, you have just a single column,

00:51:54   which is such a waste of space

00:51:56   on this huge screen that you've given me,

00:51:58   especially now you have reverted

00:52:00   to a single column widget layout,

00:52:02   where we had a dual column widget layout before,

00:52:04   but the biggest problem is just the way

00:52:06   you interact with notifications is a nightmare.

00:52:10   So currently, even on the iPad,

00:52:12   you have to do like a mock 3D touch

00:52:14   to do any interaction at all with notifications.

00:52:18   Where in the past, you used to be able to swipe them

00:52:20   and perform some quick actions, which is way quicker

00:52:22   because on the iPad, you're waiting for an animation.

00:52:25   Because on the iPhone, you are instigating the 3D touch

00:52:29   so you can make that happen immediately.

00:52:31   But on the iPad, you have to press and hold

00:52:33   and wait for it to open. - It's a tap and hold, yeah.

00:52:35   - Because it's-- - There's a lot

00:52:36   of tap and hold now. - Exactly.

00:52:37   I mean, and tap and hold for the drag and drop,

00:52:39   like I'm fine with, but for the notifications,

00:52:43   it's not great.

00:52:44   Also, I can't find a way to-- you can't just tap on the notification and it opens the app

00:52:50   anymore.

00:52:51   All the notification stuff seems like a bit of a nightmare to me right now.

00:52:56   That is the one area that-- well, one, I'm seeing a lot of people who are using the public

00:53:00   beta now start to complain about this.

00:53:02   I'm hoping that this is a thing that will get refined as we go through because right

00:53:08   now it is a bit of a mess, I think.

00:53:10   Right.

00:53:11   We don't know.

00:53:12   of the other things that's tricky when you talk about betas is we can talk about them

00:53:17   like it's a done deal, but we actually don't know whether…

00:53:20   Yeah, they just, they literally may have not gotten to it yet. Like, we're making some

00:53:23   changes to the notification stuff. It's not finished, right? Like, you know…

00:53:27   Or they, or they, they, they said, "Well, let's try this and see what the reaction

00:53:31   is," right? Because they know that they have a public beta process now. So let's try

00:53:34   it and see what the reaction is. "Oh, wow, people really hated that. Let's go back,"

00:53:37   because we've seen that, right? We've seen that in previous betas, where they made

00:53:40   changes and everybody screamed and they went back. Even sometimes things that we kind of

00:53:44   like the changes but other people are like, "Oh no, I can't believe it!" and they're like,

00:53:47   "Alright, we're going to turn that off."

00:53:48   Yeah, so I have faith that if there's something here that categorically people are not happy

00:53:53   with and people are raising feedback and stuff like that, that they will change it because

00:53:58   they're not silly and we've seen it happen before. But like I was saying, if there's

00:54:01   one thing that I don't like, it's that. That's kind of the thing that I'm not too keen on.

00:54:07   I feel like it's not fully baked. I agree with you there. I was going to point out,

00:54:14   I actually don't like control center on the iPad. I think that, I think again, I think

00:54:19   it needs to be refined.

00:54:20   I like it a lot. What do you not like about it?

00:54:23   I don't love, um, I understand that they kind of wanted to have a single gesture for the

00:54:30   multitasking and control center. So you've got this and the doc, right? So you've got

00:54:35   the, you got to take the big swipe up. Um, but there are a few things. So like I needed

00:54:40   to airplay a video last weekend and for the life of me, I couldn't figure out how to do

00:54:49   it because there was no airplay command visible in the video player in the app. And I ended

00:54:57   up figuring it out with help, but what I had to do was I had to swipe up to control center.

00:55:02   I had to tap and hold on the "Now Playing" icon, at which point it expanded to show the

00:55:12   – because the screen mirroring is visible on Control Center.

00:55:15   But that's not what you wanted to do.

00:55:18   But I wanted to AirPlay a video and not mirror my screen, and I had to tap and hold on "Now

00:55:23   Playing" to bring up the AirPlay submenu, which then I could tap on and choose an Apple

00:55:27   TV.

00:55:28   then, so I'm out of the app, I'm in Control Center, I'm in a modal pop-up in Control Center,

00:55:35   and then I bring up another modal, I guess it changes the modal pop-up to be a list view,

00:55:42   and then you pick where you want to play, and then it plays. And that's wrong for a

00:55:47   few ways. First is we want to play video, and it's very much like a music interface

00:55:53   that's happening here. So that was not good. I don't like the fact that I can't tap and

00:55:59   hold on the Bluetooth and the Wi-Fi and get a picker to pick a new thing. I have to go

00:56:07   to the settings app. I feel like that should be covered. I think you should be able to

00:56:12   add and remove items from Control Center by tapping and holding and having them jiggle

00:56:17   and move them around on the screen or remove them.

00:56:19   - Yeah, I'll have to be able to move stuff too.

00:56:22   - It's editable from a list in the settings app,

00:56:24   which just seems completely wrong to me.

00:56:26   And again, it's a new feature,

00:56:28   maybe it's on their list

00:56:29   and they just couldn't make it happen.

00:56:30   That's frustrating to me.

00:56:32   And then my number one complaint actually

00:56:35   is about the brightness control.

00:56:36   Because, so I'm sitting in bed and it's morning or night,

00:56:41   I'm reading something on my iPad and it's, you know,

00:56:45   it's black text on a white background, it's really bright.

00:56:48   And I decide I need to make this screen a little bit darker

00:56:52   so that this white text on a black text on a white background

00:56:56   is not as harsh in my eyes.

00:56:59   In iOS 10, you flip up Control Center

00:57:02   and you grab the brightness slider, right?

00:57:05   And the Control Center is only

00:57:06   on the bottom part of the screen.

00:57:07   As you slide the brightness slider, what happens?

00:57:10   It actually drops out the opacity on the app behind you

00:57:13   so that you can see the actual effect

00:57:16   of the brightness change on the app you're using

00:57:19   and get it to like there, there, I'm comfortable with that.

00:57:21   Well, in iOS 11, it takes your app,

00:57:24   throws it into a thumbnail

00:57:26   and then you slide a little slider,

00:57:27   which means you can't see the context,

00:57:29   not really, of brightness.

00:57:31   So then now you're guessing like, well, is that enough?

00:57:34   Tap on the app.

00:57:35   Nope, it's still too bright.

00:57:36   Bring it back up, make it down a little bit.

00:57:37   Oh, that's a little too dark.

00:57:39   Tap it again, bring it a little bit up.

00:57:41   It's just, it's a mistake.

00:57:42   Like it's bad user experience.

00:57:44   I want to adjust, they had it right before.

00:57:47   I want to adjust the brightness in context

00:57:49   of what I'm viewing so that I can see

00:57:52   whether it's too bright or too dark.

00:57:53   And with this approach, you can't do that.

00:57:55   You just have to guess.

00:57:56   And, you know, again, I'll get used to it, I suppose,

00:58:00   but that's one where I can tell now,

00:58:02   like, that is not the right effect.

00:58:06   That is, you are losing usability by doing that.

00:58:09   So what I'm saying is control center.

00:58:11   There are a lot of things I like about it,

00:58:14   but that is not, I've got some complaints.

00:58:16   - Yeah, I can agree with you

00:58:17   that there are definitely some issues,

00:58:19   especially the brightness one, 'cause I do the same.

00:58:21   But on the whole, I really prefer

00:58:24   the control center layout and design,

00:58:26   because even, you know, the thing with the brightness thing,

00:58:29   what I'm, I'm willing to make the trade-off

00:58:32   based on the fact that now I can swipe it up

00:58:34   and brightness is always in the same place

00:58:35   where I expect it to be.

00:58:36   Like-- - I agree.

00:58:37   - That has annoyed me every day for a year.

00:58:41   and I think I would prefer to just like,

00:58:45   maybe have to do a little bit more fiddling

00:58:46   or eventually just work out what the brightness will be.

00:58:50   Right, like there will always be like in the morning

00:58:52   or at night there's gonna be a level that I'm gonna like

00:58:54   and I'll be able to tell visually, right,

00:58:56   like on the little slider, maybe.

00:58:58   But the fact of me knowing where everything's gonna be,

00:59:01   I'm way happy with that.

00:59:02   And also, I am maybe in the minority here

00:59:05   but I think it looks really cool.

00:59:06   I like the way it looks.

00:59:09   and I'm also a big fan of the additional functions.

00:59:12   It's been really fun, right,

00:59:13   like to watch people sharing things about the beta

00:59:16   'cause everyone's just using screen recording.

00:59:19   - Yeah, absolutely. - It's been really fun

00:59:20   to see that, and I'm like, yeah, this is great.

00:59:22   Like, this is a great step.

00:59:24   So this is just the beginning of our iOS 11 thoughts,

00:59:29   I guess.

00:59:31   There is a lot to like, there is a lot to,

00:59:34   clearly that needs some refinement,

00:59:36   And honestly, we're so early in the process right now,

00:59:39   I believe a lot of it will be refined.

00:59:41   But overall, I am very, very, very positive about iOS 11,

00:59:47   and I'm really excited to see what happens

00:59:51   come September, October, as all of the applications

00:59:54   that I use are updated and enhanced, right?

00:59:57   Like drag and drop.

00:59:59   - I'm excited that TestFlight, which is the source of,

01:00:02   that's how you get beta versions of apps,

01:00:04   Like Apple has already apparently turned on the spigot

01:00:07   where apps built for iOS 11 can be put in TestFlight,

01:00:11   which it used to be that that took a while,

01:00:14   like that was late in the game.

01:00:15   And so we would have these summer experiences with iOS 11,

01:00:18   but it was iOS 11 from Apple.

01:00:21   And then all of our apps were iOS 10 apps.

01:00:23   And this summer I have hope that for the apps

01:00:26   that if you're fortunate enough to be using betas of apps,

01:00:30   you've talked to the developer,

01:00:32   you've gotten on their TestFlight list.

01:00:33   And I would say that if you are somebody who makes the move to iOS 11 and has an

01:00:38   app that you love on iOS 11, that whether it works properly or not, if you love it

01:00:46   and you use it and you know, you're going to use it a lot under iOS 11 this summer,

01:00:50   send an email to the developer and offer and say, Hey, I'm using iOS 11 and I love

01:00:58   your app.

01:00:59   I don't know if you're doing a test flight for iOS 11, but I'm, you know, I,

01:01:05   I would, I would use it heavily if you want to, if, if you want me to test it,

01:01:08   they may say, no, be polite, don't demand it and don't feel like you're entitled

01:01:14   to it.

01:01:14   But, um, I would say that that can certainly make the beta experience better.

01:01:19   And I would think that getting good feedback from committed users of a

01:01:24   product is helpful to developers as part of the beta process, but you're really

01:01:28   in deep now because then you're using beta software on beta software. So you

01:01:32   gotta be prepared. But I'm excited about it because I've got apps that I use and

01:01:36   that I like that are going to be updating in TestFlight for iOS 11 and

01:01:39   that's exciting because I'm not gonna have to wait until the day that iOS 11

01:01:43   ships and then the update hits the App Store because I want to use it. I want to

01:01:49   use that stuff now. I have apps in my TestFlight that are built for iOS 11 but

01:01:55   TestFlight is not working on my iPad.

01:01:58   - I've heard, yeah, so TestFlight didn't work at all

01:02:00   in beta one for me.

01:02:01   In beta two, it's working on some of my iPads

01:02:05   and not on others.

01:02:06   And we've had friends who've said the same thing,

01:02:09   that they can't get, the first beta,

01:02:14   I just kept tapping the link

01:02:16   and it never would click, basically.

01:02:21   - I am trying to log in and it's telling me

01:02:23   that TestFlight is unavailable.

01:02:25   - Yes, so I have three iPads right now running iOS 11,

01:02:29   the old 9.7, the 10.5, and the 12.9.

01:02:33   And two of them have access to TestFlight,

01:02:36   and the other says it's not available.

01:02:38   - If anybody knows how to fix this,

01:02:40   please let me know, please let me know.

01:02:42   I really wanna use TestFlight.

01:02:44   There is one application in there that I really wanna use,

01:02:49   and I can't, and it's making me upset.

01:02:51   Also, I'm gonna run into some problems

01:02:52   of some of the apps that I used.

01:02:54   (laughing)

01:02:55   That I'm on the base for anyway,

01:02:56   so we'll see how that goes.

01:02:58   I was 11 kids, it's real.

01:03:00   - It's real.

01:03:00   - All right, today's show is also brought to you

01:03:02   by FreshBooks.

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01:05:12   of this show. Small giant mic. That's me. That is me. So, uh,

01:05:19   the Mac OS High Sierra public beta. I don't, I don't, thank you. I don't know

01:05:28   if there's as much to say with this one. I have you, I'm sure you've probably played with the

01:05:38   the-- hi, Sierra Beta a little bit. Do you have any-- what is here, Jason? What is here

01:05:44   for people?


01:05:46   Well, it's, there's stuff. Photos, I wrote a whole thing about photos.

01:05:54   But we're gonna get into photos in a minute, right? We're pulling photos out of this initial discussion.

01:05:58   I'm letting you get away with it that easy, because we have a whole discussion about the new photos.

01:06:02   But I wanna know...

01:06:04   Apple file system, which I haven't tried yet, but people are excited about.

01:06:10   So when you sign up for High Sierra, does the does APFS begin immediately like with iOS 10.3?

01:06:18   Like does it just move you over or do you does it like say hey do you want to do this?

01:06:22   No, I think you have the option to upgrade a drive.

01:06:26   I feel like that's better for the Mac.

01:06:27   If you because you can boot different storage devices on Macs, right?

01:06:32   It's not like iOS and so you could be in a situation where you convert that and then you boot into another OS

01:06:38   an earlier OS and it doesn't like see the drive.

01:06:41   It's like, I don't even know what that is.

01:06:43   And that's bad because then your data is only visible

01:06:46   from versions that can see APFS.

01:06:49   So, but I haven't tried it out.

01:06:51   And, you know, they talked about it a lot

01:06:54   on accidental tech podcasts.

01:06:56   So I'd refer people there.

01:06:58   I think there's some stuff that's existing now

01:07:02   that's exciting, like quick copies.

01:07:04   Like if you duplicate a file,

01:07:05   it just basically marks it as a duplicate.

01:07:07   It's instant, treats it, does the right thing.

01:07:10   If you edit it later, it'll write that new edit out to disk

01:07:13   while keeping the original in its place.

01:07:15   It's all good.

01:07:18   Time machine in a long run will be better,

01:07:20   but not in the short run using this technology.

01:07:23   I'm interested in how it works on fusion drives,

01:07:27   'cause it sounds like since it was built

01:07:29   with a fusion drive in mind,

01:07:31   that fusion drives will be better.

01:07:35   that Apple has said that it's gonna place data

01:07:40   on the flash and hard drives on a profile basis

01:07:43   using hints on optimal file location for different apps

01:07:48   for increased performance.

01:07:50   So it sounds like they're trying,

01:07:52   APFS is trying to do the right thing

01:07:57   and be very optimized for Fusion Drive.

01:08:00   Also it's a file system built with the idea for SSDs.

01:08:05   So I'm intrigued by that as somebody who's got a computer

01:08:09   that has an SSD on it,

01:08:10   that this might be a much better experience

01:08:13   in terms of my disks than the file system

01:08:19   that was built for spinning disks.

01:08:21   But again, this is esoteric stuff.

01:08:23   It's gonna be like, this is step one of a long process

01:08:26   where this is coming in and then changes will start to happen

01:08:31   that will make it more relevant as time goes on.

01:08:37   What else is in here?

01:08:40   All the HEVC stuff, high efficiency video coding

01:08:44   that is in iOS 11 is in here too.

01:08:47   So support for those higher quality,

01:08:51   more compressed videos, H.265,

01:08:56   is in High Sierra too.

01:08:59   So you wanna have that compatibility thing.

01:09:02   I mean, it's still gonna be incompatible.

01:09:04   This stuff is gonna be, unless it's converted,

01:09:06   it's gonna be incompatible with older operating systems,

01:09:08   but it will be the two most recent Apple operating systems

01:09:13   will have compatibility for those files.

01:09:17   What else?

01:09:18   Metal 2, but again, it's a developer feature.

01:09:23   So the idea there is that you should be able

01:09:26   to see apps take advantage of a better

01:09:31   and more efficient graphics pipeline.

01:09:33   That includes their VR support that they've got,

01:09:37   the HTC Vive for headsets.

01:09:39   It remains to be seen if they're gonna be like,

01:09:42   if we're actually gonna see HTC Vives attached

01:09:45   to Macs playing VR games,

01:09:50   if that's gonna be a thing that happens or not,

01:09:52   and which Macs would that be?

01:09:55   Is it just the new iMacs?

01:09:57   Is it other models?

01:09:58   We don't really know.

01:09:59   Safari update stuff is in there,

01:10:03   although that'll come to older operating systems,

01:10:06   'cause I think they update Safari

01:10:08   a couple of versions back when they do it,

01:10:11   including WebRTC, which we talked about,

01:10:13   that will mean that a lot of these web podcast tools

01:10:16   will start to work on Safari at some point, probably.

01:10:19   There's some work that the developers need to do

01:10:21   to support it, but it should be supportable.

01:10:24   So tell me what's going on with the photos then.

01:10:27   You don't want to hear about the improved full screen mode in Mail?

01:10:31   No, not really, Jason.

01:10:34   Or a Safari reader on a per domain basis.

01:10:39   That's actually kind of nice.

01:10:40   Sure.

01:10:41   I get all these complaints when I link to stories that I write on sites that have autoplay

01:10:44   video and it's like, well now you just mark it as always turn on Safari reader.

01:10:48   Well also, autoplay video is being killed in Safari, right?

01:10:52   true too. That's the story, although I haven't seen that work, but that's the idea, is that you can just turn off

01:10:58   autoplay of everything. Which is, that's pretty cool. So yeah, the big one I would say is photos. There's a lot of changes in photos, which is,

01:11:10   I wrote a book about it, so I care about that. There's new editing views, there's some new editing tools, they finally have committed to the sidebar for the UI for it, which previously you could have it as tabs or as a sidebar,

01:11:21   tabs or as a sidebar felt like there was a little war going on there where some people

01:11:25   were like, no tabs and other people are like, come on sidebar. And they're like, oh no,

01:11:30   sidebar is like iPhoto. It's old and boring. We don't want that. And the sidebar people

01:11:33   won. So the sidebar is just there all the time, which is fine. And they've got, you

01:11:38   know, your photos organized into different media types. So like you can quickly jump

01:11:42   to all the live photos and all the screenshots and that's in this albums area along with

01:11:47   with your own albums that you make.

01:11:49   And then there's like a library view

01:11:50   where there's all your imports you can actually see now.

01:11:54   Like when did I import that file?

01:11:56   It was back here and you can find it that way.

01:11:58   It's got a persistent import history view of your library,

01:12:02   which is kind of interesting.

01:12:03   And they improved memories and people,

01:12:09   the people got better.

01:12:11   The people are better.

01:12:12   Yeah, your friends are gonna be better now.

01:12:13   people stuff is, the interface is a little nicer, but they've actually improved the face

01:12:19   recognition engine. They actually look at context of what people are in what photos.

01:12:24   The example that I gave, I think, in my story about this is if you've got two people that

01:12:29   you have photos of who never appear together and it finds a photo of people, it thinks

01:12:38   it's those two people, it's going to be more skeptical of that because they're never supposed

01:12:42   to be together, or if you've got photos of two people

01:12:43   who are commonly together, and it's got,

01:12:46   I know this person is in this photo,

01:12:48   and this might be that person,

01:12:49   it's going to be more aggressive about saying,

01:12:52   "No, that's that person," because it understands

01:12:55   the context of when people are together or not,

01:12:58   and uses that as a hint.

01:12:59   So that's kind of interesting.

01:13:02   And then when you say, "This is this person,"

01:13:07   that metadata gets synced in the cloud,

01:13:09   So your other devices can use that as part of the hinting

01:13:13   when they're doing their facial processing of your photos,

01:13:16   which is not the same as syncing all your metadata.

01:13:18   I wrote the story and I had a bunch of people say,

01:13:20   "Wait a second, I thought that it synced all the metadata."

01:13:22   And it's like, "Well, yeah, we thought that too

01:13:24   when it got announced on stage,

01:13:26   but it turns out that that's not the case

01:13:27   and that it scans everything."

01:13:30   But on every device, I don't know.

01:13:33   But this is a bit of metadata that does get synced,

01:13:37   which is if you said this photo contains this person,

01:13:40   that rides along with that photo.

01:13:41   And that the other devices can look at that and say,

01:13:44   "Oh, that's that person."

01:13:46   And that helps keep your faces in sync across.

01:13:51   And that's good because that's the one place

01:13:53   where there's human interaction with training.

01:13:55   That's probably why they did it.

01:13:57   Is like, this is the one place where there is,

01:14:00   like you have to do work to train faces.

01:14:03   You don't do work to say, this is a cow, this is a cow,

01:14:05   This is a cat, this is a dog, this is also a cow, right?

01:14:10   This is a mountain, this is a horse, this is a lake.

01:14:13   With people though, you have to do that.

01:14:15   This is Julian, this is Lauren, this is Jamie,

01:14:18   this is Myke, this is Steven, right?

01:14:20   You have to do that.

01:14:22   And it's really annoying if you have to do that

01:14:24   on every device that you own.

01:14:26   So they put that in, they sync that.

01:14:29   So at least that part is better.

01:14:31   And then on the memory side,

01:14:33   it's more of this machine learning stuff

01:14:34   where it's like memories are these auto-generated albums.

01:14:36   It's actually very clever that they introduced last time

01:14:39   and they've created more context now.

01:14:42   Basically it's looking for things it recognizes

01:14:46   and building albums based on those.

01:14:48   And those are memories.

01:14:49   And now there are more of those things it's looking for.

01:14:51   So like pets as an example where it'll see animals

01:14:54   and maybe like even like at your house and it'll say,

01:14:58   oh, here's a gallery of pet photos.

01:15:01   or like recognizing food and saying,

01:15:04   oh, there's a gallery of your meal photos.

01:15:08   So there's like a half dozen new things

01:15:11   it's trying to mine out of your photo metadata

01:15:15   and float up so that you can see them,

01:15:18   which is, it's interesting

01:15:20   'cause this is what they're trying to do

01:15:22   is they're trying to take your library

01:15:23   of tens of thousands of photos

01:15:24   and use some intelligence based on those scans

01:15:27   that it's done and the objects it's recognized,

01:15:29   do a second level which is now that I know what's in all these photos and when they were

01:15:34   taken and where they were taken, can I make albums based on that? And so it's trying to

01:15:39   get better there.

01:15:40   What do you think, is there anything else other than the machine learning data which

01:15:45   isn't synced, which should be, which we all thought was going to be, but turns out it

01:15:48   isn't. Is there anything else from that, in that sort of vein that you would like to see

01:15:54   added? Are there any other big missing features for you?

01:15:56   I don't know, I think some of it is just that it all needs to get better. And that's like,

01:16:02   the memories thing is a good example of that, where they just need to keep pushing on that,

01:16:06   because the ultimate goal is that you should not, not only should you not have to tag your

01:16:10   family in every photo, you should not have to make albums, right? Like, you take a trip,

01:16:15   you take a road trip for the summer, it should figure that out, right? It should be like,

01:16:19   "Oh, you know, these, this, if I look at this time stream, I can see you moving, you know,

01:16:24   in this direction and then coming home again and being in all these places you aren't usually,

01:16:28   and it's these people, and like, I can make a photo highlight of your vacation with all

01:16:34   the different locations included, right? All of it's there. It just needs to be intelligent

01:16:39   enough to be able to do that, and for a birthday party, and for a trip to the beach, like whatever,

01:16:44   it should be able to do all that stuff. So the more that Apple can push that, the better,

01:16:49   because not only is Google giving them a lot of competition there, but I think that's one

01:16:52   of the great advantages of having this stuff. It's like, I don't just want a repository

01:16:56   for my photos anymore. I do want it to start doing my organization for me because I'm not

01:17:01   going to take the time. I'm not going to build a lot of albums. I might build some, but if

01:17:06   it can float up something and say, "Hey, here's all of your trips to Seattle in this little

01:17:11   gallery." It's like, "Wow, that's really great. You know, I just took a trip to Seattle and

01:17:15   then I've taken trips there before and now you've put this whole thing together with

01:17:18   some of the same people across 10 years, 15 years, that's really great, right? More like

01:17:24   that and better recognition, better metadata fits into that, better realization like they've

01:17:29   added of the relationship between different people where these people appear in photos

01:17:33   together and these people don't. So these are work people and these are home, you know,

01:17:37   family people and that, you know, these are these kinds of family people and these kind.

01:17:41   The more that all of these photos things do with that, the better. Also, I will say, we

01:17:47   we get a calendar every year that's based on the previous year. So like January will

01:17:51   be pictures from January and February will be pictures from February. And one thing that

01:17:55   they haven't done that frustrates me a little that I'd like them to do is like if I order

01:17:59   a calendar from Apple, it should like figure out what I might want in the calendar like

01:18:05   before I start working on it. That would be great. It's like we've already done it. We've

01:18:10   already you know we've already picked the best photos from this year and put it on a

01:18:14   a calendar for you that would be great but on the account that they are still

01:18:17   the ones making these things it is interesting that they've not applied the

01:18:20   machine learning to make in the products yeah Google do that now right that was

01:18:24   one thing that Google photos now does yeah third-party apps actually can hook

01:18:30   into photos now for the first time so like Shutterfly can build an app that

01:18:34   basically lives inside of photos and lets you build and order stuff through

01:18:37   Shutterfly so they've opened that to third parties it's no longer just sort

01:18:40   of via Apple. And these are going to be like Mac App Store apps, right? Yeah, yeah, there's

01:18:46   going to be a special section in the Mac App Store that is going to be for apps that have

01:18:50   this feature and you download them in the Mac App Store and then they basically get

01:18:54   inserted into Photos and then you can use them within Photos to build these things and

01:19:00   that actually passes through some memories data, which is interesting, but I don't think

01:19:05   that Apple is using it. Turns out there is something happening with the Mac App Store.

01:19:11   A very little bit, a very little bit. I should say two years after introducing live photos

01:19:17   they actually put live photo editing into photos which is nice. You can set the crop,

01:19:22   you can set the animation effect if you wanted to bounce or just be a standard animation.

01:19:26   They've got this wild like, it's a long duration exposure thing where I had these live photos

01:19:33   at a waterfall and I flipped it into long duration exposure mode and it turns into this

01:19:37   kind of like beautiful like long exposure of the waterfall but it was built out of a

01:19:41   live photo which is pretty cool and you can choose the representative image, the picture

01:19:48   frame image basically from your live photo. I think that's going to be better over time

01:19:51   because I suspect newer iPhones running iOS 7 are going to get better or iOS 11 are going

01:19:57   to get better at what they capture with the live photo will be higher quality I think

01:20:03   over time. And so that's good because that allows you to pick a fairly high quality representative

01:20:11   image so like when you look at that live photo you missed it by a half a second but you can

01:20:16   actually like tick it over and have that be the image that displays in your library which

01:20:20   is kind of neat.

01:20:21   I'm excited about the live photo changes. We're going to get to this in a minute actually.

01:20:26   I won't spill the beans. We've got an Ask Upgrade just about this too. Great. Speaking

01:20:31   of which, should we move on to Ask Upgrade?

01:20:34   Sounds good.

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01:21:52   So let's do this question that we have here from Chris, where Chris is asking us about

01:21:56   photos and Chris wants to know if we still use bursts at all.

01:22:02   But Chris says that he used to use burst photos all the time when they came out, but then

01:22:07   when live photos came along, he stopped using bursts.

01:22:11   What do you do, Jason?

01:22:12   Do you still use bursts and have live photos maybe kind of taken a lot of that away from

01:22:16   you or what?

01:22:17   I only ever used bursts in very specific circumstances where I felt like it was something happening

01:22:23   so fast that I just wanted to just grab all the photos and deal with it later and pick

01:22:28   the ones that I liked. But I never used them very often. I generally leave live photo turned

01:22:34   on because it's kind of fun. And so you end up with these things that you never really

01:22:40   thought about being good live photos that are good live photos. But it's still kind

01:22:45   of a curiosity for me. I'm not using the live photos as much as I maybe hoped, but it is.

01:22:52   Basically for me, the live photo is this really cool thing where you find a photo that you

01:22:55   like and realize that if you tap and hold on it or 3D touch on it, that it plays a little

01:23:00   tidbit of the surrounding action. And sometimes that's really great. Like I had a picture

01:23:04   of my dog at the dog park and when I opened up the live photo, it shows her like spinning

01:23:10   around or running around and that was cool. I get the extra time there. It's fun, which

01:23:17   is why I leave it on, but that's kind of about it. I think we'll get to the point where the

01:23:21   live photo stuff is more valuable because they will up the quality of the live photo

01:23:27   content to the point where it's approaching the quality of the still. And that's really

01:23:31   great because the closer you get to that, then you get to the ability of picking your

01:23:36   moment and then it's like a burst where I don't know whether it's doing this now, but

01:23:41   you know theoretically when you're doing a live photo you could take not just the one

01:23:45   full quality photo in the middle, but you could bracket it you could have a full quality

01:23:48   photo every 10th of a second 20th of a second half of a second whatever and that would allow

01:23:57   you after the fact like every photo is a burst and a video basically and that's great because

01:24:01   then you could go back and say oh, I just missed the moment and then slide it back a

01:24:04   little and be like, "No, actually I got it because the moment was slightly earlier."

01:24:08   I know that there's file size issues and all that, but that's one of the reasons Apple

01:24:11   is doing this higher quality video and photo formats, is I think to give them the ability

01:24:18   to capture more data when you capture a photo. Because by all rights, when you capture a

01:24:23   photo, if you had enough space and the technology allowed it, I would want it to capture lots

01:24:27   of data around the photo because I might not have pressed the button at the right time.

01:24:32   But if it captures slightly earlier than that and slightly later, if I miss the moment by

01:24:37   half a second, if it's always capturing and buffering that, you know, a second before

01:24:42   or three seconds before, then I'm going to get the shot after all. That's pretty great.

01:24:46   Like that, that, uh, that should, we need more of that. And I feel like live photos

01:24:51   is, is, is taking us in that direction.

01:24:55   I'm a huge life photos fan. Um, I love it. I don't really use bursts very much anymore.

01:25:01   I really enjoy live photos. I leave them on all the time.

01:25:05   There was a time recently where I realized I had them off for a while by accident

01:25:09   when I was really sad about that because the live photo is just gone, right, if it's not taking it.

01:25:14   But I love when I'm flicking through my library and the photos are moving a little bit.

01:25:19   I love that. I mean, I really do like the fun that they add and I'm really excited about some of the changes.

01:25:25   Like, I have some live photos which are terrible photos, but the live photo is awesome.

01:25:31   But the image is bad

01:25:32   So I love that you can now change the image the representative image

01:25:36   So you'll know what the live photo is and then also some of the loop stuff like I've been playing with that a little bit

01:25:41   The way that it's looping and all that little fun effects you can do now

01:25:44   They are really good and you can sometimes get some really funny stuff happening with them. So

01:25:50   I'm very excited to see

01:25:53   The more that's gonna happen here and I'm looking forward to just playing around with live photos more with these new effects

01:26:00   I'm really excited about it. It's one of my favorite things about iOS honestly.

01:26:03   Like I really love live photos.

01:26:06   Brian is looking for a decent iPad Pro 10.5 sleeve.

01:26:10   Ideally that can hold the smart cover, keyboard and pencil. Any suggestions?

01:26:14   I think there's only one suggestion which is the one that Apple makes, the leather sleeve.

01:26:20   I haven't seen anything else. I don't know if you have Jason, but this fits the bill perfectly.

01:26:25   Apple made it. It's perfect with the keyboard on it rather. It all fits in there.

01:26:29   and it's got a nice little slot for the pencil. This is on my like someday list

01:26:33   like I like the look of this I just don't have a reason to buy it right now

01:26:38   but like I might put this on like my holiday list you know like if somebody

01:26:42   wants to get me a nice gift for the holidays like this could be something

01:26:45   for that right I just like the way it looks and when I'm traveling and stuff

01:26:49   it might be nice to just put it all in and you know if I'm working out then

01:26:53   I've got this nice little lever thing to put down I can put my notepad on it or

01:26:56   whatever. I really love the way this case looks. I think it's a nice accessory, but

01:27:01   I just haven't got a reason right now to pick one up. But I think if you want a sleeve,

01:27:08   like this is right now the one to get, I assume.

01:27:12   That's all I know. That's all I know, too. It's not cheap, but it's very nice. It's very

01:27:17   well done. And there will be more iPad 10.5 accessories as time goes on if you can wait

01:27:24   you want to wait to see if there's something else out there. I'm sure they will arrive

01:27:27   at some point.

01:27:28   Oh, by the way, just something on photos that I forgot to mention. The Photos app on iOS

01:27:34   now shows animated GIFs. There is like, also like, there is an auto-created folder in the

01:27:43   Photos app, it's called animated, and when you open a GIF now, when you open it up, it

01:27:48   starts to animate. Finally.

01:27:51   Yes.

01:27:52   So, I'm excited.

01:27:53   Congratulations, you get your animated GIFs at last.

01:27:57   Oh, I noticed what you did there.

01:27:59   We won't talk about that today.

01:28:00   Dave wants to know if either of us

01:28:04   use Apple's two-factor authentication.

01:28:08   I will include a link in the show notes

01:28:10   to Dan Morin's excellent article on six colors last year,

01:28:14   where he went into this in detail,

01:28:17   and helped me set it up.

01:28:19   I do use Apple's two-factor authentication,

01:28:22   and it works great. - Me too.

01:28:24   - I'm happy with it. - Yep.

01:28:25   - Like it does exactly what I need.

01:28:28   - Yeah, I like it a lot the way they do it

01:28:29   where you log in and it pops up the little thing

01:28:32   on all your devices and you just need one of your devices

01:28:34   to get the code and you put it in and it's a,

01:28:37   I've got two factor on lots of stuff now,

01:28:39   but I am using it.

01:28:40   I have heard that in iOS 11 and macOS,

01:28:45   hi Sierra, that the, you don't have to do the two step,

01:28:49   that Dan describes, that there's a more direct way

01:28:52   to upgrade from one to the other from the old two factor to the new two step because

01:28:57   there was a or two step to two two factor, whatever there was an old one and there's

01:29:00   a new one and it used to be very complicated, but it's about to be less complicated. But

01:29:05   I think people should do it. Like I know it's a pain because every time you log in on a

01:29:08   new device, it's going to ask you to put in a six digit code. But it means that if somebody

01:29:14   doesn't have one of your devices, they can't get into your account, which means that if

01:29:18   If somebody random somewhere on the internet is trying to break into your account, they

01:29:23   can't do it unless they also have one of your devices, which is going to be less likely.

01:29:28   Yeah. I, uh, the only thing that frustrates me with the two factor is the app specific

01:29:34   passwords were like apps that use my iCloud information. I have to go to the Apple website

01:29:40   and create a specific password for them every single time. It's just like an, and it like

01:29:45   It's just a frustration.

01:29:46   It's just, it's not, you know,

01:29:48   I only ever have to really do it one time,

01:29:49   but like when I'm setting up a new device,

01:29:52   I have to generate all these different passwords

01:29:54   and you literally have to use a different password

01:29:57   for every instance of an application

01:29:59   on all of your machines.

01:30:00   And it's just, it's just a frustration.

01:30:02   I wish there was an easier way to set it up.

01:30:04   I wish there was like an iOS app that could do this,

01:30:07   that Apple made, instead of having to go

01:30:10   to the Apple account page every time

01:30:14   and setting it up in this weird way

01:30:15   and

01:30:31   kit and increased access to the Plus's sensor data in iOS 11 with the depth API, what do

01:30:37   you think the likelihood is of dual cameras on all of the iPhone line coming in September?

01:30:44   What do you think, Jason?

01:30:46   I think I think what you think, which is that if the scenario where there's a 7S and an

01:30:52   8 both released, which is unclear, but that's the rumor, I would imagine that the 8 would

01:30:58   have dual camera. The high-end, sort of in between the size of the 7 and the 7 Plus,

01:31:07   if that phone exists, I have a hard time thinking that they wouldn't put the best stuff in it,

01:31:13   including the depth-effect stuff from the two cameras. So that's going to be, you know,

01:31:18   that's my guess. If they also do a 7S and 7S Plus, I think it would not be as likely

01:31:25   in the 7S that they would just sort of that's a you know no don't change it too much kind

01:31:30   of update that they're doing in the background while they're also releasing an iPhone 8 if

01:31:34   that's the case I think that the smaller phone wouldn't get it but the newfangled awesome

01:31:38   phone would probably pick up the second camera because why would you not mean you want that

01:31:44   to be like the phone that has everything the best of everything in it so it would mean

01:31:48   two cameras for sure because it's gonna cost like a million dollars but yeah that's what

01:31:54   should be doing right this this iPhone whatever it's gonna be is is like the

01:32:01   next generation I think that's how I see it as being like set up is like

01:32:06   whatever this iPhone is it is like the past ten years of iPhones look this way

01:32:11   and then this is the future of the iPhone that's how I think they're gonna

01:32:14   they're gonna talk about that this iPhone 8 or iPhone Pro whatever it's

01:32:17   gonna be and I think that it will have all of the features right that the

01:32:22   previous iPhones have had plus these new ones. So I can't see them being like "oh

01:32:27   it still has one camera if you want two cameras you have to get 7s+" like I

01:32:31   just don't think that's gonna happen. And then in 2018 they'll all have two

01:32:37   cameras right like all of the phones that Apple release will have two cameras

01:32:40   on is what I think it will happen but we're still going to be in this in

01:32:43   between in 2017. And finally today Boze asked "is it stupid to get a high-end

01:32:51   end retina 5k iMac for future proofing I'm mostly concerned about the hundreds

01:32:56   of tabs that I keep open. So my feeling on this is it depends how far into the

01:33:01   future you're expecting to keep this machine like if this is gonna be your

01:33:05   computer for the next five years ten years I think future proofing is a great

01:33:11   reason like if you're buying a computer now and you're wondering if you should

01:33:15   spend a little bit extra to get some some more beefy specs because you're

01:33:19   looking to keep this machine around for a while. I think that's a good part of

01:33:22   the purchasing process honestly because you do want to future-proof yourself.

01:33:27   Like if you're planning to buy this computer and keep it around for say five

01:33:32   years you want to make sure that in five years it's still gonna be running well.

01:33:36   Look at John Siracusa. Yeah he's going for the, he's shooting the moon, going for

01:33:41   ten years. But do you agree with this? Yeah I think if it's within your means I

01:33:47   I think the best way to buy a Mac is probably to spend a little money on higher-end models

01:33:54   because they'll last longer and then run them into the ground. But everybody's different.

01:33:58   I know people who buy a stock model, run it for a couple years, sell it, and get a new

01:34:05   model. And that's what they do. But I will say this is kind of how I use cars. I will

01:34:14   oftentimes buy a new car and then just drive it for a very, very long time until

01:34:19   it is old and that not everybody wants to do that. But there is something to be

01:34:23   said for that, that you can buy a high-end model and I would say technology

01:34:28   right now like it used to be like the difference between the computer now and

01:34:32   two years ago was dramatic. But these days it's not so dramatic. It's not so

01:34:39   dramatic and that's how John Siracusa has been able to run a Mac Pro for

01:34:43   almost 10 years. The changes are not as dramatic as they used to be. So I think a

01:34:48   higher-end retina iMac that is going to last you for many years is probably a

01:34:54   good thing if you have the means, if you can afford to buy it at that high price

01:34:58   because it is a high price. That was my rationale when I bought my 5k iMac was I

01:35:03   wanted it to last and I wanted the

01:35:07   fastest one because I knew that over time you know it becomes less impressive

01:35:11   and less fast. And the fact is that although I don't have the fancy screen

01:35:16   that the new iMacs have, that processor, that i7 processor I have in my iMac,

01:35:21   still pretty fast. Still pretty darn good. I'm not worried about its

01:35:26   performance. So it's not stupid, but it depends on what your priorities are.

01:35:32   I did this when I bought my iMac and this iMac would last me with my current

01:35:37   tasks years more because I went for the top of the line. My only thing is

01:35:43   the VR. If VR games come to the Mac then I might have to ask some

01:35:49   questions about what I want to do, but under the current things that I'm

01:35:53   doing, I bought the best so it would last the longest. Also hundreds of

01:35:58   tabs I'll just point out what you need to do is max out your RAM. That's

01:36:01   what you need to do if you've got hundreds of tabs open. More than anything

01:36:04   else more than processor, disk, or anything, it's RAM. Max out your RAM. And you can do

01:36:10   that through third parties. You don't actually need to max it out at Apple if you buy the

01:36:16   27 because it's got the door on the back for RAM and you can have it to be the minimum

01:36:20   amount of RAM sold on that model and then buy the max from a third party and install

01:36:26   it. You can do that, but if you've got lots of tabs, you want as much RAM as possible.

01:36:32   On that note we will wrap up today. Thank you so much to our sponsors for this week's

01:36:36   show, Casper Freshbooks and Encapsula. If you want to grab our show notes they are at

01:36:39   relay.fm/upgrade/148. I will mention at this point if you haven't yet checked out Jason

01:36:45   Snell's new show on relay.fm, Download just reached episode 10 last week. Go check it

01:36:51   out it's a great show I think that you'll enjoy it. There's a lot of people on there

01:36:54   that you may have heard of and a lot of people that you may have not and you're going to

01:36:57   be introduced to some new awesome voices so go check out download that's at relay.fm/download

01:37:03   because you upgrade at the start of your week and you download at the end of it. Isn't that

01:37:07   right Jason? That's right. Mmhmm you know it. You know it. If you want to find Jason's

01:37:11   work online he's over at sixcolors.com and he's @jasonel on twitter J S N E double L.

01:37:17   I am @imike I M Y K E. I want to thank you all for listening as always and we'll be back

01:37:23   next time enjoy your independence day over there Americans I hope that you

01:37:28   have lots of hot dogs and fireworks until then say goodbye Jason snow

01:37:34   fireworks wait hang on that sounds like lasers how do we do fire similar like

01:37:40   maybe there we go perfect fireworks nailed it

01:37:48   (Music)

01:37:50   *sneezes* Hot dogs!