144: Don't Call It the Finder


00:00:00   (

00:00:00   *Ding!*

00:00:00   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade Episode 144, recorded live in San Jose, California.

00:00:17   Today's show is brought to you by Encapsula Squarespace Mail Route.

00:00:20   My name is Myke Hurley. I am joined by...

00:00:23   Mr. Jason Snell!

00:00:25   Hey over there!

00:00:25   Hey Jason Snell!

00:00:26   Why did you say San Jose?

00:00:29   - Because I nearly said Francisco.

00:00:31   - Oh, I see.

00:00:32   - Still getting used to that.

00:00:33   - All right, yeah, it just seems strangely aggressive.

00:00:35   It's just the name, San Jose.

00:00:37   - It's currently 1 p.m. on Monday.

00:00:39   We have just finished watching the keynote.

00:00:43   You booked it.

00:00:44   - I was at the keynote an hour ago,

00:00:46   and now I'm here with you.

00:00:47   - So we are here to talk about what has just gone down.

00:00:50   - At WWDC 2017 keynote.

00:00:53   Now, here's an important point,

00:00:55   we've made it before, we're gonna make it again.

00:00:57   we are in the keynote bubble.

00:00:59   Which means there are probably people out there

00:01:01   somewhere else who know more than we do about some things

00:01:05   that have just been announced because they're the ones

00:01:07   who are freeze-framing those slides

00:01:09   that they showed for like half a second

00:01:10   and then flipped away.

00:01:11   They're the ones who are looking at the tech notes,

00:01:14   who are trawling through the product pages on apple.com.

00:01:17   And we haven't done any of that.

00:01:18   We watched the keynote and now we're gonna talk about it.

00:01:21   What this means is it's a great opportunity

00:01:22   for us to discuss the finer details,

00:01:25   the things you might have missed

00:01:27   in next week's show.

00:01:28   - Yep, and the week's following.

00:01:29   So yeah, we are basically, we know what you know

00:01:32   if you watch the video, if you know anything more,

00:01:34   we probably don't know it.

00:01:36   But the most, I think the most important thing

00:01:38   that we need to get to today is the draft.

00:01:42   - Oh yes, that is the most important thing.

00:01:43   I believe we can say now that you are the two time

00:01:46   defending WWDC keynote draft champion.

00:01:49   - I'm pleased that we didn't even need to argue

00:01:52   about it this time.

00:01:54   I think it is clear.

00:01:55   I scored you at four points.

00:01:58   - That seems to be the consensus.

00:01:59   - I scored me at six points.

00:02:01   - Yeah. - We have a possible seventh,

00:02:02   but I don't think it works enough,

00:02:05   which is improved 3D touch support.

00:02:07   I think we saw some extra things,

00:02:08   especially in Control Center,

00:02:09   but I don't think it was enough to warrant a point.

00:02:11   - Yeah, the way I interpreted your statement

00:02:13   was that there were going to be new aspects of the feature

00:02:16   and not just-- - That was the way I meant it.

00:02:18   - Yeah, and not just, oh, look,

00:02:19   there's new things that you can 3D touch on.

00:02:21   - I mean, 'cause honestly, they are like--

00:02:22   - So 6.4 seems right to me.

00:02:23   - The things that they showed

00:02:25   things that we already could do in other parts of the OS.

00:02:27   - Yeah.

00:02:28   - But the way that it went, so Jason got photo metadata

00:02:30   across all devices, iPad drag and drop,

00:02:33   improved dual camera support and enhanced Siri kit.

00:02:38   I got split view, iPad Pro, Amazon prime, MacBook Pro,

00:02:42   spinal tap reference, debut of the Siri speaker

00:02:45   or just what, you know, I think we'll say

00:02:48   it's the Siri speaker, but we'll get to that.

00:02:50   - That totally counts.

00:02:51   No, and you're betting on hardware.

00:02:54   - Paid off, big time.

00:02:55   - And that they would prominently display Amazon,

00:02:57   which I was skeptical about that, totally paid off.

00:02:59   And in fact, right after, I'm gonna give,

00:03:02   we didn't say this like we've done in past ones,

00:03:04   but I'm going to give a credit to the Upgradians/Joe Steele,

00:03:08   although Joe wasn't involved,

00:03:10   but he's part of the team now, he stuck with us.

00:03:12   - He's the head of the Upgradians.

00:03:13   - For the number one thing that everybody mentioned

00:03:16   after our show last week, which was the iMac Pro,

00:03:20   which was much rumored and even hinted at,

00:03:24   but we didn't pick it because we forgot about it.

00:03:26   We picked it because we thought--

00:03:27   - It wasn't happening.

00:03:28   - It wasn't gonna happen.

00:03:29   There were no rumors about it.

00:03:30   Now, of course, the answer is,

00:03:31   it's not gonna ship till the end of the year,

00:03:32   and that's why there were no rumors about it.

00:03:34   - 'Cause there's nothing, right?

00:03:35   The people that would be able to leak can't,

00:03:37   'cause it's not being made.

00:03:38   - It's not in the supply chain, yeah.

00:03:39   - So it seems like a bit of a concept still at this point.

00:03:43   - Before we go to the details of what was announced,

00:03:48   one other point that's not quite draft-related,

00:03:50   but it is sort of draft-related,

00:03:51   which is the state of rumors.

00:03:55   - Yeah.

00:03:56   - So I was chatting with some people before the keynote.

00:03:59   You may have read the piece that John Gruber wrote last week

00:04:03   about Mark Gurman's latest report

00:04:05   about what we now know as the HomePod.

00:04:10   And the larger point here is currently

00:04:15   the state of Apple rumors is bad.

00:04:17   - Yep.

00:04:18   They kept the OS stuff locked up tight.

00:04:22   Some things leaked, but mostly it was supply chain stuff, and the supply chain has some

00:04:30   issues with what you can tell from the supply chain, and the OS stuff being tied up really

00:04:36   changes the tenor of the rumors because you don't know what the software is that's running

00:04:39   on the hardware.

00:04:41   And the reason this is draft related is only for me to say that if I have one regret about

00:04:45   our draft. It's not that I lost. It's that I felt like we lacked, we were being driven

00:04:55   not only by competitiveness, which is fine, but by the being trained by Apple rumors to

00:05:04   view what was rumored as the set of things to choose from instead of our sort of dreams.

00:05:11   And I think what we saw today in the keynote was the rumors were weak enough that we should

00:05:18   have gone with our dreams.

00:05:20   Because I think our dreams might have scored better than tying into the rumors.

00:05:24   So I think that's something to keep in mind as we look at future Apple events that we

00:05:29   may end up being in an environment now where the iPhone is going to leak because of the

00:05:32   huge supply chain involved, but that Apple may have made some internal changes.

00:05:37   And I, in line today, I talked to some people who had some interesting speculation about

00:05:42   internal changes that Apple has made to ferret out some of these sources of leaked information

00:05:47   and that we may not be able to just sort of look at a list of rumors and pick from them.

00:05:52   We may really need to use, like we used to do back in the olden days, of just using our

00:05:57   imagination.

00:05:58   I think that would actually be better.

00:05:59   I think it's better for all.

00:06:00   I think a hearty combination of both, because I don't think that either of us would have

00:06:05   have picked like the MacBook stuff today.

00:06:08   - No, oh yeah. - Right, without those rumors.

00:06:09   - The rumors that we got were,

00:06:11   a lot of them were right and they were important.

00:06:13   It's just that they didn't tell the whole story.

00:06:15   - I agree, yeah, I agree.

00:06:16   So I think that's just something for me

00:06:18   and you to bear in mind, right?

00:06:19   Like as we do more and more of these

00:06:20   because we will do them forever and ever and ever,

00:06:23   that we maybe try and incorporate a little more

00:06:26   of what we hope and think as opposed to just

00:06:28   what MacRumors is telling us, right?

00:06:30   Which I think is what at least I know I focused on

00:06:32   quite a lot when putting together

00:06:33   the rumor list to pick from.

00:06:35   Yeah, I also have some theories about the, our next draft involving like having some categories and forcing us to pick some, uh, some wild ideas instead of just kind of going for the safe ones. And we'll, uh, we'll discuss it for the next event.

00:06:49   But I won the draft.

00:06:51   Yeah, six to four. I think we can, we can, we can officially put that up there with the only caveat being if somebody analyzes a slide and sees something that was on one of those slides, those slides that they don't read out loud, but they show on screen.

00:07:04   I don't know.

00:07:04   they do count. I agree. But we didn't see them and I think that whatever we decide right

00:07:09   now it's binding. Like as we said last time what we say on the show is the binding result.

00:07:13   I think the binding result is that you win. I think the score is open to possible adjustment

00:07:18   later but I'm gonna even if you win 6-6 you still win. Thank you very much. I think I

00:07:26   won actually pretty early on because the tvos and the mac went real quick through these

00:07:33   six big announcements is the weight of the keynote was pictures here like you remember

00:07:38   last year it was we have these four platforms and they went through it that way this year

00:07:42   the overriding theme the overarching theme was six big announcements which was great

00:07:47   because I mean we got to one point it's like okay we're up to four and there's no iPad

00:07:51   no Siri speaker so come on five and six yeah that was how I was watching the keynote today

00:07:58   - TV OS, so TV OS, all there was was just the information

00:08:03   about Prime now and Apple TV.

00:08:04   Now my feeling on this, especially everything that Tim said

00:08:09   gave a real sales pitch for Prime.

00:08:12   I think, well, I said last time I stand by,

00:08:15   like this was contractual.

00:08:16   - It was part of the deal. - They wanted stage time

00:08:18   because Tim is talking about all the great content available,

00:08:21   you know, that it's available on all these devices

00:08:23   and now on the app.

00:08:24   Like it was a real thing that he doesn't normally do

00:08:27   for anyone.

00:08:28   - Yeah.

00:08:29   - Like didn't do it for Netflix, didn't,

00:08:31   like for HBO, someone from HBO came out and did it.

00:08:33   - Yeah, whether contractual or not,

00:08:35   clearly there was an agreement made

00:08:37   that they would plug the Amazon stuff in the keynote.

00:08:40   - Exactly, so, you know,

00:08:42   that was interesting, I think.

00:08:46   I think it was pretty telling.

00:08:47   And I'm pleased to see that it's gonna happen.

00:08:50   Did they announce when?

00:08:51   - For Amazon?

00:08:54   I don't remember.

00:08:55   It's coming to Apple TV.

00:08:57   So I feel like there was nothing for tv OS probably because there's not a new TV box

00:09:02   yet and when there's a new TV box later in the year there may be some other stuff that

00:09:08   they show right so things that we were talking about like 4k and picture in picture and stuff

00:09:12   like that you don't need to show any of that.

00:09:13   They're gonna ship a new box in the fall probably.

00:09:15   Yeah when it will have some stuff in it.

00:09:17   We can draft it then.

00:09:18   Watch OS 4 so I was expecting with the way that tv OS went I thought watch OS 4 was gonna

00:09:24   at no time. Right? Like I thought it was going to be a very similar thing. But Kevin Lynch

00:09:28   sporting a new look, uh, came out on stage. Oh, real time follow up from the chat room.

00:09:32   Amazon prime support, uh, this fall. Okay. This fall probably with the new Apple TV,

00:09:38   right? They'd be with the iPhone. And there's a bunch of new watch faces. One of them is

00:09:42   a proactive Siri assistant. And I like the idea of this, you know, the Apple watch kind

00:09:50   of showing you what's going on. You know what it reminds me of? The Pebble interface.

00:09:55   Oh, I was going to say the Google Assistant. It reminds me of the Google Assistant.

00:09:58   That too.

00:09:59   It's a list of, here's some, here's what's coming up.

00:10:01   But I think it was Pebble 2.

00:10:03   Right.

00:10:04   When they created an interface that was just like this, where it was a historic like scrolling

00:10:09   list of things that I think you needed to know with the most important at the top.

00:10:12   Mm-hmm.

00:10:13   So it's trying to use the Proactive Series stuff to be like, we know you've got an appointment

00:10:16   here's what the weather is and trying to learn about you.

00:10:19   So I like the idea of this.

00:10:22   I just feel like personally, like it's not bad,

00:10:25   but I've never really gotten a lot out

00:10:26   of the proactive serious system stuff.

00:10:28   - Yeah, I think it needs to be better.

00:10:29   The stuff that I've seen, at one point they popped up a,

00:10:33   your ride to your office will be an hour or whatever.

00:10:37   It was one of those.

00:10:38   And I thought to myself, oh yeah,

00:10:39   those announcements I get from time to time

00:10:41   that I ignore because they're not relevant, right?

00:10:44   So they need to be better.

00:10:45   They need to be more relevant.

00:10:46   but if they could do that right, then it's not bad.

00:10:48   - It'd be fantastic, right?

00:10:49   - It can intuit what you need to see.

00:10:50   - Because if it works, like I said,

00:10:51   if it all works properly, like that might be

00:10:54   all you ever need to look at on the Apple Watch, right?

00:10:57   Like it's all there, you don't need to open any apps anymore

00:10:59   because all the stuff you need

00:11:01   should be the thing that is on top, right?

00:11:03   Like in theory, you know, if the theory plays out.

00:11:05   So I'm interested to try it

00:11:08   and I'm interested to see how it works.

00:11:10   But I'm gonna keep my eye on that one, right?

00:11:13   Like I think that that could be something fun.

00:11:15   gonna try it out. The kaleidoscope face seemed just like a nightmare. Yeah,

00:11:20   whatever, I mean, my excitement about new Apple Watch faces is at a low ebb now, to

00:11:26   be honest. The kaleidoscope face is another one of those kind of... It's one of those

00:11:30   things, well I feel that way about some other faces too that I don't understand

00:11:34   but they're not for me apparently. And then they have the Disney... The beginning

00:11:37   of all Pixar characters starting to come to the Apple Watch over editions. Yeah, all Disney and

00:11:42   Pixar characters coming to the Apple Watch. Toy Story, so Buzz and Jesse and Woody. With

00:11:46   like animated scenes when you when you lift your hand again. Which Kevin Lynch found very

00:11:51   funny. I thought it was great that he said oh people love Minnie and Mickey it's like

00:11:56   I'm sure they do. I'm sure they do. I hate those watch faces I don't see why they exist

00:12:00   for I'm glad other people like them I would never consider using them. No so they're not

00:12:05   for me and you. They're not for us. Honestly I don't really know who they're for but I

00:12:09   - I had a Mickey Mouse watch when I was a kid,

00:12:11   but I don't need it now.

00:12:12   - You're not a kid anymore.

00:12:13   - No. - You're a big boy.

00:12:14   - Thanks, Myke. - Activity,

00:12:16   I liked some of the activity stuff,

00:12:18   the personalized activity notifications.

00:12:20   So learning about your activity data

00:12:23   and the way that you work out

00:12:24   and giving you tailored notifications

00:12:28   based upon your typical activity, I really like.

00:12:32   Right, because it's not,

00:12:33   saying to everyone you should be doing 1,000 sit-ups today,

00:12:38   because that's demoralizing, right?

00:12:41   But for someone like me who sits at home all the time,

00:12:44   just telling me that like, oh hey,

00:12:46   you should go and take a 10 minute walk or something, right?

00:12:48   To get what could be your move goal for the day,

00:12:51   that kind of stuff.

00:12:53   I like a lot of that, I think that that's good.

00:12:54   I think it's a good idea to tailor these things

00:12:58   to meet that person's individual activity,

00:13:01   not just their goals,

00:13:02   but the way that they actually move around.

00:13:05   I think that's good.

00:13:05   - I like the notification that said,

00:13:07   you need to go take a 15 minute walk to close your ring.

00:13:11   I thought that was a nice bit of motivation there.

00:13:14   - New animations which look really good

00:13:15   and personal challenges, so if you say go take a walk,

00:13:18   they look really good too.

00:13:19   And the workout app looked really nice,

00:13:21   new animations, refresh UI.

00:13:22   There was an ability, I don't think I work out in this way,

00:13:27   but I'm sure that people do,

00:13:29   that you can start one workout

00:13:31   whilst you're doing another one,

00:13:34   like if you're doing interval training and stuff like that.

00:13:35   I guess that's really good. - For show-offs, yeah.

00:13:37   people look, I'm sure that's good for people.

00:13:40   I like the UI change though,

00:13:41   because the workout app is really not very good.

00:13:44   Like it's just these like small yellow boxes.

00:13:47   So I was happy to see some rethinking in the UI there

00:13:50   as well.

00:13:51   And they showed off something which I'm sure

00:13:53   that Apple Park is full of these new exercise machines

00:13:56   with the NFC enabled thing.

00:13:58   It's probably, honestly,

00:13:59   I think it's why they built the feature

00:14:01   because they have all these exercise machines

00:14:02   that are going into Apple Park with NFC chips.

00:14:04   so you can now sync the data between the watch

00:14:07   and the gym equipment, which I think is clever.

00:14:09   - Sure.

00:14:11   - Oh, and then music.

00:14:12   The music stuff is pretty good too.

00:14:13   So it automatically syncs music to your Apple Watch now.

00:14:17   I think that's good, like why not?

00:14:18   - Yeah. - The space is there,

00:14:19   fill it up, it reminds me of like the iPod Shuffle.

00:14:21   Right, where it would just fill up

00:14:22   your most recent music for you.

00:14:24   I think that's a good idea,

00:14:25   like what else is going on this device?

00:14:27   Like there's nothing on here.

00:14:29   It has storage space in it.

00:14:30   Put some music in it, and they say,

00:14:32   you know, it's a perfect pairing with that and the AirPods.

00:14:34   I think that's really good, I think that's a good idea.

00:14:37   So that's watchOS and tvOS.

00:14:40   I mean, they were really,

00:14:43   they sped through those, I think, quite a lot.

00:14:46   Just to get them out of the way.

00:14:47   - Yeah, and I think that's fine.

00:14:48   I think, I think that's fine.

00:14:50   - I think it was a good thing to give them some time

00:14:52   to talk about something, but not to waste time.

00:14:53   - The only bit of analysis I have

00:14:55   about the Apple Watch announcements

00:14:57   is that it struck me watching it

00:14:59   that this is the first watchOS release

00:15:02   that seems like it's a measured forward movement

00:15:06   of the design, like where do we go?

00:15:10   Because there was the original release of the hardware

00:15:13   and then they did a watchOS 2 update that was--

00:15:17   - Stability. - That was, yeah, right.

00:15:19   - Defentious. - And watchOS 3 was

00:15:20   literally let's just do this again,

00:15:22   let's take it from scratch, let's fix a lot of things.

00:15:24   It was a rethinking of huge parts of the OS.

00:15:26   So this to me feels like, oh, this is a platform now

00:15:30   that they're gonna iterate on,

00:15:31   - Yeah, and they use this timeline style interface

00:15:35   in a couple of apps that we saw, right?

00:15:36   Like that is the, it's not a rethinking of the design,

00:15:39   it is an evolution of watchOS 3.

00:15:42   - Yeah, and the timeline thing is really

00:15:44   sort of an extension of Siri, that they consider that,

00:15:47   that Siri proactive assistant, whatever you wanna call it,

00:15:51   is, which is the thing that reminded me

00:15:53   of the Google Assistant.

00:15:55   - Yeah, all right, Jason, let's take a break

00:15:57   and then we can talk about the Mac.

00:15:58   - Sounds great.

00:15:59   - Sounds great.

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00:17:06   support of this show and Relay FM. Mac OS Hi Sierra. Hi Sierra. I literally thought that that was a joke.

00:17:16   Hey Sierra, how you doing? Yeah. That's all I think of every time. It just sounds so strange to me as a name.

00:17:21   Hi, Sierra. Well, obviously that it's named in parallel with

00:17:26   mountain lion and no snow leopard as a

00:17:31   Sort of don't get too excited kind of thing. Yeah, they started it was like Yosemite El Capitan. Yeah

00:17:37   So this this was very great Sierra Sierra is really great. We're just gonna keep doing that

00:17:41   There wasn't really I mean, okay. So a few things I've no I think Safari autoplay video blocking was good

00:17:49   Yeah, I'm waiting for the think pieces from publishers about why is Apple so hostile to

00:17:54   our autoplay videos and our intelligent tracking of people and serving tracker ads everywhere

00:18:00   on the web.

00:18:01   Why is Apple so mean to us?

00:18:02   Why are they trying to destroy us?

00:18:04   Those are already being written.

00:18:06   Oh yeah, they were written before the keynote was done.

00:18:09   But you know, could either of us deny that some of the most annoying stuff, I've actually

00:18:12   noticed this recently on my iPad that there are sites now that are aggressively autoplaying

00:18:16   video and when you pause them as soon as you start scrolling the page the video starts

00:18:20   to play again. It's so evil.

00:18:22   Yeah, I'll be happy to see a lot of that stuff go away. I mean, again, I have no problem

00:18:26   with advertising but autoplay videos, it's just like we're not in the context of expecting

00:18:31   audio to start blurring out of the machine. Photos, there's stuff for photos, I mean,

00:18:37   this doesn't just affect the Mac but they brought it up here first.

00:18:39   Yeah, I think it's important and obviously I care about photos having written about it

00:18:44   so much that there's so many features that they put up on a slide, but they did add a

00:18:50   bunch of filtering in view, the improve the faces stuff. They used the phrase to describe

00:18:57   how faces are detected. I wrote it down. It's an advanced convolutional neural network.

00:19:01   Of course, I knew that. But they synchronized that data across all the devices because‚Ķ

00:19:06   Which is exactly what we want.

00:19:07   Exactly. You train them and then you go to another device and it doesn't know who those

00:19:10   people are so that's great a bunch of new editing stuff curves selective

00:19:14   color some other things like that for people who complain that they want more

00:19:17   editing tools there's also a round tripping with external editors which is

00:19:23   something that was in I believe both iPhoto and aperture but never was in

00:19:28   photos before this round tripping where you edit it in an external tool and it

00:19:33   sinks back to the photo library so that's really big and in a year when

00:19:37   When Google announced that they were adding printed books to Google Photos, Apple announced

00:19:41   that they're opening up the printing of photo books and things from photos to a bunch of

00:19:49   third party products, a bunch of third party photo printers including Shutterfly which

00:19:54   I've been using to print photo posters and books for a while now.

00:19:59   I found it weird that Google started doing it themselves as well.

00:20:03   I felt like this was something that we don't, I don't know how people are using this so

00:20:07   much anymore, like it felt like a thing of maybe a bygone era, but obviously I'm wrong.

00:20:11   People want it.

00:20:12   Obviously this is a big, maybe it's more in the keepsakes and all of that because my family

00:20:16   stopped doing those things.

00:20:17   And maybe I'm just not in that stage in my life.

00:20:19   I think when people have kids they become more attached to having these sorts of things,

00:20:23   so maybe I'm just not there yet.

00:20:26   APFS is going to be the new default, so I assume we're going to get the APFS switchover,

00:20:30   APFS switch over the same way as we do with the iPhone.

00:20:33   - Yeah, it's unclear to me.

00:20:35   - There's a lot of detail to come to this.

00:20:36   - This is one of those things that will probably

00:20:38   be discussed in the subsequent sessions at WWDC

00:20:41   and it'll all filter out and we'll understand it better.

00:20:44   But the idea that as a new default,

00:20:46   I would imagine that's new systems will ship with it once.

00:20:49   Hi Sierra ships and that--

00:20:51   - Hi Sierra.

00:20:52   - And then at that default, when you format a drive,

00:20:56   it'll be, well, you wanna use APFS.

00:20:58   But I don't read into that necessarily

00:21:00   that it's going to automatically convert

00:21:04   your boot drive in place, that may be an option.

00:21:07   It may let you choose to do that.

00:21:10   But more to be heard about.

00:21:13   Again, this is one of those keynote bubble things.

00:21:16   - The thing that I am most excited about,

00:21:18   the thing I found the most impressive and most surprising,

00:21:22   actually maybe in the entire keynote,

00:21:25   is Apple embracing VR.

00:21:28   So we talked about this, I think on a few previous shows

00:21:32   and the possibility that Apple would,

00:21:35   especially with AR, which we can talk about,

00:21:37   like AR, I had a good feeling about for this.

00:21:41   - 'Cause Tim talks about it whenever he can.

00:21:43   - And you have an iPhone with a camera

00:21:45   and an iPad with a camera.

00:21:47   So you can build that stuff onto those devices now.

00:21:49   - And we've seen it.

00:21:50   - And deal with AR hardware later.

00:21:51   - We've played all Pokemon Go, right?

00:21:53   - Exactly, but the embrace of VR, I was surprised by

00:21:56   And I kept thinking about people I've talked to who do VR development,

00:22:00   and we know some of them.

00:22:02   We know more than one person who's talked to us about this,

00:22:04   and about the utter unsuitability of the Mac as a VR development environment.

00:22:10   There's that great quote from Hama Luckett,

00:22:12   I remember exactly right when he was the head of Oculus,

00:22:15   that just like, it's never going to come to the Mac

00:22:16   until they make some serious changes.

00:22:18   Until, yeah, until they're serious about this.

00:22:20   And we've heard it, I think you and I have heard it from Shahid

00:22:23   about having to use a PC and Brianna Wu has talked about how the Mac hardware just hasn't

00:22:29   been good enough. And this was the message here to a development audience is Apple is

00:22:35   now at least paying lip service to VR. They showed some impressive stuff. I'll wait

00:22:41   for the pros to say sort of what's the current state of affairs in their mind and whether

00:22:45   this solves all the issues or not. But certainly Apple's making a public commitment to VR

00:22:51   development as well as AR.

00:22:52   I was just blown away by it. Like, I'm so excited about that.

00:22:55   Um, I don't want to buy a PC.

00:22:58   And...

00:22:59   But I do want to get a really good VR headset.

00:23:03   Like, within... at some point within the next year.

00:23:05   I... am skeptical that the Mac will ever be a VR...

00:23:11   environment for playing VR.

00:23:14   What do you mean?

00:23:17   I'm skeptical. I would be... I mean, yeah, if Oculus...

00:23:21   If these systems are powerful enough that you can attach an Oculus Rift to them, then great.

00:23:25   But I feel like the point is more development.

00:23:29   This was a development message.

00:23:30   The ILM demo was a developer.

00:23:32   We're going to place these things in the scene and then play them back.

00:23:35   And in the long run, I just feel like even if you could in the short term,

00:23:38   that it's going to be mobile devices that drive VR in the future.

00:23:44   >> I mean, they were doing the demo with a Vive, a HTC Vive.

00:23:47   >> Yeah.

00:23:48   >> Like that's a serious, serious equipment.

00:23:50   But it was a development demo.

00:23:51   Are they are they really?

00:23:53   And if the Mac can play VR games, is it really going to be anything?

00:23:56   Steam is bringing the VR kit to the Mac.

00:24:01   Yeah, OK. Like, so that's it.

00:24:02   All right. That's it.

00:24:03   That's where the VR games are.

00:24:04   All right. So if Steam are bringing that, like

00:24:07   like when Steam came to the Mac the first time, right?

00:24:09   If they bring the VR stuff to the Mac, that's it's done.

00:24:13   Well, and then they have to bring those games.

00:24:15   Yeah. Count me as a skeptic about games on the Mac.

00:24:19   I think people often in cycles get excited about gaming using the Mac and they are they have generally been disappointed

00:24:26   Oh, I am a disappointed so gamer which is why I'm excited gonna focus about the fact that they are making a development case here that

00:24:35   developers can

00:24:37   Build their stuff on a Mac and not get some sort of box from them if you're a developer, right?

00:24:41   Like there was this it's an external GPU, right?

00:24:45   Developer and that's what basically you have to use that for any of their current hardware, right?

00:24:50   If you want to play but like it looks like stuff like the future maybe the iMac Pro the next Mac Pro

00:24:55   That will be powerful enough. I'm unclear. I think that that's related to the fact that just with Thunderbolt 3 you can outboard

00:25:02   Excuse me. You can outboard your GPUs. And so this is the this is the test of that

00:25:07   I'm unclear how that's gonna work in in reality. There was a bunch of updates to the iMac line

00:25:14   Which is unexpected right now. Yeah. Well, we certainly didn't expect it like I mean

00:25:19   I think that most of the people that were contacting us were assuming the iMac Pro right which we got

00:25:24   Yeah, but I said just these updates to the iMac line is great

00:25:29   But I was only kind of thought would happen last fall or this spring and instead they happened to

00:25:33   WWDC because it just felt like

00:25:35   It was not needed. I mean, okay

00:25:39   So the way that Tim kind of started this segment off,

00:25:43   it was lip service.

00:25:44   It was the lip service we were talking about.

00:25:46   You know, he was saying the Mac is at the heart

00:25:48   of our company, the core of our company.

00:25:50   It's so important to us.

00:25:51   So then they spent some time just showing up

00:25:53   a bunch of our hardware revisions

00:25:55   as a way to prove a point, I think.

00:25:57   Because the iMac stuff, I don't know, it's like,

00:26:03   well, it's new specs.

00:26:06   These are the products, timing is a little bit weird,

00:26:11   but these are the products that we've expected.

00:26:13   The iMac and the notebooks, that this is the next.

00:26:17   The iMac, this is the let's step into USB-C Thunderbolt 3.

00:26:22   And they've got the Kaby Lake processors in them.

00:26:26   They've got two USB-C and four standard USB.

00:26:30   So they got all the ports on the back.

00:26:32   - Yeah, and the USB-C are Thunderbolt 3 enabled.

00:26:36   They've got higher memory capacity,

00:26:38   better graphics cards, better display.

00:26:40   - Yeah, it's a full on update.

00:26:42   - Across the line. - Full on update,

00:26:43   including the ports going to USB-C

00:26:45   in addition to USB standard.

00:26:47   And--

00:26:49   - I don't think they got rid of--

00:26:50   - And improved display again.

00:26:52   They improved the display in the second round.

00:26:55   It's again improved from that in terms of

00:26:57   one billion color support through 10-bit dithering,

00:27:02   and it's brighter, so.

00:27:04   - They mentioned like for the 27,

00:27:06   it starts with a fusion drive, like the lowest 27,

00:27:09   but I think the 21 still has a spinner.

00:27:11   - Well, the low end 21, which is not retina,

00:27:15   still has a spinner.

00:27:16   But it sounds to me like if you buy a retina iMac,

00:27:21   you get a fusion drive as the base,

00:27:23   which, you know, it's progress.

00:27:26   I still don't love that there are spinning drives

00:27:30   in these things, but I understand the cost considerations.

00:27:33   but getting the basic configuration

00:27:37   to just be a spinning drive with no SSD at all,

00:27:39   getting that out for the Retina iMacs

00:27:41   is the right thing to do.

00:27:42   And that low-end iMac,

00:27:43   I mean, that's like a school iMac, basically.

00:27:44   That is, they wanna, it doesn't have Retina,

00:27:47   they are pricing it to get it to be as cheap

00:27:49   as they possibly can.

00:27:51   And the price cut too, that the 4K iMac now starts

00:27:54   $100 cheaper at $1,299.

00:27:55   - Yeah, it's great.

00:27:56   - That's, yeah, it's all good.

00:27:58   - Laptop's exactly what we thought, right?

00:28:00   New processors across the line,

00:28:02   faster SSDs and the MacBook graphics update and the MacBook Pro and even the

00:28:07   little MacBook Air got a processor update. Yeah although they just said increase in

00:28:11   megahertz so it sounds like maybe it's an older processor but they're

00:28:15   they're using the faster one. Which is probably just like the ones that they were using maybe aren't

00:28:18   being made anymore. Exactly right. So if they want to keep selling that product

00:28:21   they have to do something. But they mentioned that on stage which I would not have bet on. They didn't need to do that did they really.

00:28:26   It's like and even the MacBook Air has an increase in megahertz on there. So you could just put it on the store I don't know if that was necessary.

00:28:32   Also notable here I would say is that the MacBook escape,

00:28:36   the touch bar list 13 inch is now 1299,

00:28:39   the same price as the MacBook,

00:28:41   which really I think hammers the point home

00:28:44   that there are two replacements for the MacBook Air

00:28:47   that are retina.

00:28:47   - And they serve different purposes.

00:28:49   - And you can get your one that's less powerful

00:28:51   but ultra light or you can get the one

00:28:53   that's heavier and thicker but is more powerful.

00:28:55   - Yep.

00:28:56   I'm Mac Pro, man.

00:28:59   Wow.

00:28:59   Wow.

00:29:00   - I took some pictures of it in the hands-on area afterward.

00:29:04   You know, yeah, they had one in the corner lit weirdly

00:29:07   like it was from space.

00:29:09   - All space gray, including the peripherals.

00:29:12   - Yeah, there's a lot of vents on the back,

00:29:14   let me tell you that.

00:29:15   - Oh yeah, I bet. - A lot of vents

00:29:15   under the little hinge on the back and a lot of ports.

00:29:20   It's, yeah.

00:29:21   - Most powerful Mac ever made.

00:29:23   - Yeah, that's absolutely true.

00:29:25   I mean, you could already argue that the existing iMacs

00:29:29   are more powerful in many ways,

00:29:30   but this is in more powerful in every way than the Mac Pro.

00:29:33   - Raw power.

00:29:34   - And price, I mean, this is priced like a Mac Pro.

00:29:37   It is no wonder that the rumor is that these products were,

00:29:42   that the iMac Pro was designed for a world without a Mac Pro

00:29:47   that the initial conception was they were gonna kill

00:29:49   the Mac Pro entirely and this was the replacement.

00:29:51   - Yeah.

00:29:52   - And then they shifted gears there,

00:29:54   but this feels like that product because, you know,

00:29:57   it starts at $5,000.

00:29:59   it starts at $5,000 and goes up from there

00:30:02   all the way up to the 18 core.

00:30:05   I do think it'll be interesting to see

00:30:07   what the differentiator is.

00:30:08   If we look at a year, what's the differentiator

00:30:11   between the iMac Pro and the Mac Pro?

00:30:13   - I mean, just looking at what you can put in this machine,

00:30:17   you know, that you can get it up to 128 gigabytes of RAM,

00:30:21   a four terabyte SSD, and an 18 core Xeon processor.

00:30:26   Why are they making the Mac Pro?

00:30:28   Like isn't this all you would need?

00:30:30   - Well that would have been the argument

00:30:32   of the people behind the iMac Pro.

00:30:34   Is we don't need to make a Mac Pro anymore.

00:30:36   - Like it's very peculiar thing.

00:30:37   - And I think the argument is that they,

00:30:41   the alternative to this, let me put it this way.

00:30:45   If this product exists, it defines in a strange way,

00:30:50   sort of negatively defines what the Mac Pro needs to be.

00:30:55   Because what the Mac Pro needs to be,

00:30:57   when it comes out in 2018, is what the iMac Pro is not.

00:31:02   Right?

00:31:03   What is it not?

00:31:05   And that's a different thing than if there was no iMac Pro,

00:31:07   then the Mac Pro needs to be all these different things.

00:31:10   But now it doesn't need to be all the things

00:31:12   the iMac Pro is.

00:31:13   It needs to be expandable.

00:31:16   Right?

00:31:17   It needs to be, I mean, again, it's headless.

00:31:18   You can buy an external monitor or a bunch of monitors.

00:31:21   Some people care about that.

00:31:23   But the expandability thing, I think, has to be a huge part.

00:31:25   expandable, swappable parts, all sorts of custom configurations.

00:31:29   It has to be that, right? Because otherwise, why bother?

00:31:32   That's it, exactly. Why even have a Mac Pro if you've got a Mac Pro that comes with a 5K Retina display like the iMac Pro?

00:31:40   And the answer has to be because it's providing something other than that it's not a screen.

00:31:46   They could have got everyone in that room a month to a month ago and just said, "We're not doing it anymore, but hey, let me tell you about this iMac that we're working on."

00:31:54   and everyone will go, yeah, okay.

00:31:57   Right, like some people are gonna be unhappy still,

00:31:59   but it's like you would see that and be like,

00:32:00   yeah, that sounds like a really good machine.

00:32:02   - So I would say, yeah, I would say expandability,

00:32:05   configurability, these are the stories.

00:32:08   The, and there are gonna be people who always say,

00:32:11   I don't wanna buy a screen, I wanna bring my own screen.

00:32:15   That's an argument that's been going on

00:32:18   since the iMac first was released.

00:32:19   - I mean, if you don't want it,

00:32:20   just put it under the desk.

00:32:22   (laughing)

00:32:23   But anyway, so it's interesting to think of the new Mac Pro

00:32:28   in that way that like it now I feel like has to be defined

00:32:32   by what, how it's different than the iMac Pro.

00:32:37   - The iMac Pro, we always knew was coming, right?

00:32:41   But it was unclear.

00:32:43   But the iMac Pro that they have defined today

00:32:46   raises more interesting questions

00:32:48   about what the Mac Pro is, right?

00:32:49   Like as you say, like--

00:32:51   - If all it is is this--

00:32:52   then why? Without a screen, is that enough of a justification? There'll be somebody out there

00:32:57   who's like, "Yes, I don't want a computer with a screen. I'll bring my own screen. I want to put it

00:33:00   on under the desk or something." That's fine. I'm not sure there are enough of those people to

00:33:04   justify that. There's got to be more. Like, there's got to be more to the argument and that will be

00:33:10   interesting to see because this is an iMac that is a Mac Pro. It seems like not even a little bit.

00:33:18   it

00:33:25   not my big, it's not my number one platform but like that iMac is a very exciting machine.

00:33:32   You know like we do, both of us, we do some things that are intensive on the processes

00:33:37   and having more cores is better right for some of the stuff that we do. Now I don't

00:33:41   think even me or you are going to be buying this machine if ever, anytime soon or at all

00:33:47   but I am pleased to see it. I think this is good, I think this is really good. You know

00:33:52   potentially like the the Mac Pro could be something that fills more price

00:33:56   points right so it could well in fact I was I was talking to some people about

00:34:00   how the iMac Pro you know it packs a lot in but sometimes you look at it and you

00:34:06   think yeah but I don't need all those things I only need a little grand right

00:34:09   so if the Mac if the Mac Pro is ultimately configurable and bring your

00:34:14   think about the Mac Mini I'm not saying the Mac Pro is gonna be the Mac Mini but

00:34:18   think about the Mac mini which was bring your own display keyboard and mouse

00:34:21   The Mac Pro could be more things to more people and I know that seems counterintuitive.

00:34:26   The Mac Pro might start a lot cheaper than the iMac Pro.

00:34:29   But you might only get half of it.

00:34:31   But I think that's it, right?

00:34:33   It may start cheaper and go up to way more expensive because it will be supremely configurable.

00:34:40   So if you want a lot of cores but don't care about GPU, you could configure it that

00:34:45   way.

00:34:46   And if you do want a lot of GPU and don't care so much about CPU cores, you could configure

00:34:51   it that way. It's possible that that will be an approach they take. It's the, you

00:34:57   know, basically our other offerings don't do it for you? Well, configure this thing

00:35:01   and stick a monitor on it.

00:35:03   Today's show is brought to you by Squarespace. Use the offer code upgrade at checkout and

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00:36:43   iOS, iOS has broken down into two really big categories

00:36:50   with many features.

00:36:52   iPhone and iPad and then iPad on its own, right?

00:36:55   Because like with iOS 10, everything we see in the iPhone,

00:36:59   the iPad will benefit from,

00:37:00   but what we didn't get with iOS 10

00:37:02   was what we got in iOS 9,

00:37:03   which is any specific iPad features.

00:37:05   Now I will say, spoiler alert, they blew my mind today.

00:37:09   - Yes they did. - I am so freaking excited

00:37:11   to talk about it, but we have to talk about the iPhone first

00:37:13   because we must observe the order of the keynote.

00:37:16   - We must.

00:37:17   So--

00:37:18   - Messages, redesigned, app draw,

00:37:20   making it easier to get to stickers, brilliant.

00:37:23   Like that looked great to me.

00:37:24   It looks so much nicer. - That's one of those things

00:37:25   that's the, would they follow up the major feature

00:37:29   that they announced last year with some fixes to make it?

00:37:32   - Yeah they did. - And they did.

00:37:34   Messages in iCloud, this is something that I always forget.

00:37:38   I think it exists.

00:37:39   It doesn't exist, which is hilarious.

00:37:41   - Yeah, that your devices are out of sync

00:37:43   when it comes to messages, which is infuriating.

00:37:45   - Yep.

00:37:46   - Also, old messages full of photos and videos

00:37:51   stick around and load down your phone.

00:37:54   So with messages syncing in iCloud,

00:37:57   basically your message histories will be stored in iCloud,

00:38:01   which means that they're purgeable,

00:38:02   which means that older ones can be removed on the device

00:38:07   and they'll still be there if you need them in the cloud.

00:38:10   - I have like eight gigabytes of messages on my phone.

00:38:11   - Yeah, and your devices will sync

00:38:13   so that the conversations will stay in sync across.

00:38:15   It's something that should have,

00:38:16   it's one of those things that should have been there

00:38:18   a long time ago probably, but it's good to see it.

00:38:20   - Apple have nailed something with iCloud because--

00:38:24   - They're just pouring things into iCloud now, aren't they?

00:38:26   - With the photo stuff, right?

00:38:27   They found a way to sync that data.

00:38:28   They found a way to get the messages off your devices

00:38:31   is

00:38:51   a few weeks ago completely nailed it and I did not expect, I mean we spoke at the time,

00:38:57   we both believed that this would happen and it, I believe it happened quicker than I expected.

00:39:03   I thought this would just be a September thing, talk about it when the new friend comes out.

00:39:07   Like you know, but they're talking about it now.

00:39:09   And it's just a messages app, then you just send, you send people Apple Pay money.

00:39:14   And then you have the little virtual card which we were talking about which stays in

00:39:17   the wallet, you can use it to pay or you can use it to transfer to your bank account, it's

00:39:20   is going to be fantastic. This is great. And also, what a great use of Messages app.

00:39:23   Right. More people are going to learn about Messages apps now.

00:39:26   It's a little bit of a proof of concept, isn't it?

00:39:29   Siri? New voices? Sounded good! I like the way that they sounded.

00:39:34   You know what it would be like sunny? Sunny and sunny. I like that.

00:39:37   I am surprised. I thought this would be a keynote about Siri.

00:39:44   It was not. And it was not. Which...

00:39:48   I thought that they were starting it here, right?

00:39:50   The hot takes will come about Apple's confidence in Siri, but I thought this was an opportunity

00:39:59   for Apple to tell a big story about how Siri is great and now it's everywhere.

00:40:04   And they did not tell that story, which suggests to me that maybe there is a little bit of

00:40:09   a lack of confidence in making Siri the central part of a product and the recognition that

00:40:14   there needs to be more work done there, more progress made. So what we got was new voices,

00:40:23   which are great. I liked how they discussed there's a male and female voice, but there

00:40:26   are a lot of Americans who don't even know that Siri is not always a female voice.

00:40:31   Really? Siri's a man to me, because that's the default.

00:40:34   Because he's got the top hat.

00:40:35   Of course, I love that.

00:40:36   And he's your butler. But we get, you know, they've got a new visual interface for Siri,

00:40:42   they've got a translation.

00:40:43   - Translation's awesome.

00:40:45   Right, it's like English into like five languages right now,

00:40:47   but it's expanding.

00:40:48   But the idea that you could just say like,

00:40:51   what's the way to the train station,

00:40:52   and then you'll be able to hold the phone to someone

00:40:55   and it will speak it to them.

00:40:56   That's brilliant.

00:40:57   - Yeah, exactly right. - I really like that.

00:40:58   I'm excited about that.

00:40:59   - And they added more stuff to SiriKit, which is good.

00:41:01   - But not a lot.

00:41:02   Now I didn't, I don't know, I only got caught a couple,

00:41:05   'cause this is-- - That was so fast.

00:41:06   - They were like flicking through these slides so quickly,

00:41:09   but like I saw stuff like tasks, notes, and QR codes.

00:41:12   There's stuff, but it wasn't quite as much as I had hoped.

00:41:17   And I didn't see anything about audio,

00:41:25   about podcasts and music play and stuff like that,

00:41:28   which is a real shame if those haven't been added.

00:41:31   - Talking about podcasts, one of the slides,

00:41:33   redesign podcast app for iPhone.

00:41:36   - Whatever that means.

00:41:37   - Camera, you called this and I said at the time

00:41:40   I did not think that they would update the camera

00:41:43   for WWDC and software.

00:41:45   - That's right.

00:41:46   - I thought later it will come with the next iPhone.

00:41:47   - I had to get something right.

00:41:48   - Jason, #jasonwasright.

00:41:51   Better compression of videos and images,

00:41:52   they're using H.265 now on this new image format.

00:41:56   Half the size of previous, good stuff.

00:42:00   - Yeah, I think it's funny that now,

00:42:01   and we'll see how they had to reassure people,

00:42:03   your sharing will be fine,

00:42:05   but that they're actually storing internally

00:42:08   They're in the lossy still image format they're using is based on the same,

00:42:15   you know, HEVC kind of thing for stills.

00:42:18   And that's the like native version and it's smaller than a JPEG.

00:42:24   But, uh, in the end, you know, nobody's using that in their apps.

00:42:29   So if you want to share out something, it'll convert it to a JPEG with the

00:42:34   whatever size it needs to be for that.

00:42:36   So there's some potential for some interesting wrinkles

00:42:41   and confusion and weirdness there that we'll have to watch.

00:42:45   But then, and they did, this is one of my point totals,

00:42:47   right, is the expanded support for dual camera photos

00:42:50   and doing HDR stuff and a depth API.

00:42:55   Yeah, absolutely.

00:42:55   - The thing that I was so happy about,

00:42:56   'cause I feel like I talk to people about this in person,

00:43:00   but never talk about it on shows,

00:43:02   which is my love of live photos

00:43:04   and how I think it's one of the best features Apple has introduced to iOS in the last few

00:43:08   years. I love live photos, they're fantastic, they add so much to some images, like you

00:43:14   can take it, you can have an image which might not be a great image but the live photo has

00:43:18   this fantastic really funny animation in it and they made a, they look, like the live

00:43:23   photos that they were showing, like a much higher quality capture which I guess by doing

00:43:27   this new compression they can capture more high quality video when they're taking the

00:43:31   photos. I really like that you can choose the key image now from the video because you

00:43:37   don't always get the moment that you remember.

00:43:39   Yeah, your high quality still isn't always the right exact moment.

00:43:43   And then using a bunch of really cool machine learning stuff, they got some looping and

00:43:50   all this type of stuff, fun effects that you can do. They did that long exposure thing,

00:43:54   right, where like they caught the water that was moving as if it was a long camera exposure

00:44:00   so it has that weird interesting effect to it which I can't explain but camera people

00:44:03   can but it looks really cool and I'm happy to see them doing more stuff there because

00:44:08   I really love Live Photos and I'm happy that it hasn't become a forgotten feature like

00:44:11   that there is more and more added to it in this version of iOS. And then Control Center

00:44:17   so this was like step one that we didn't see right like why is Control Center look the

00:44:21   way it does well it looks that way because of the iPad ultimately and what they're doing

00:44:25   but there I think. But Control Center is one pain now and it's got a bunch of switches,

00:44:31   it looks nicer, not customizable.

00:44:33   I think Control Center, one of Control Center's problems was the idea that it had grown to

00:44:39   be three pages in size.

00:44:41   It's crazy. And now it's wall one and it looks nicer and you can use 3D touch on them to

00:44:45   expand them to the bigger sizes. But it has like quick actions right there. I think that

00:44:49   looks really great and I'm excited about that. Something I do not understand at all, Jason,

00:44:54   is that the lock screen notification center

00:44:56   are the same thing now.

00:44:57   I don't know what that means.

00:44:59   The demo didn't help me.

00:45:01   I don't get it.

00:45:02   - I guess we'll have to see it.

00:45:03   What I would say is I am frequently frustrated

00:45:08   that I get a notification,

00:45:10   I pick up my phone to see what it is,

00:45:13   touch ID, reads my thumbprint,

00:45:17   and I'm whisked away to the home screen,

00:45:20   and I can't get back to that notification.

00:45:23   and I swipe down Notification Center

00:45:24   and hope that it's the top one there.

00:45:26   And I wonder if that's what's going on here,

00:45:29   is the idea that that is a permanent feature,

00:45:31   that the time and your latest notifications stay there

00:45:36   and then you can go back and view other ones.

00:45:38   But we'll have to see how it works in practice.

00:45:40   - From the chat room, Control Center is customizable.

00:45:44   So this is something from the iOS 11 page.

00:45:46   iOS 11 lets you customize the redesigned Control Center

00:45:49   so you can change the settings for the things you do most.

00:45:51   Want to be ready when inspiration hits

00:45:53   out of voice memos control.

00:45:55   Want to dim the lights in the dining room

00:45:56   with a tap at home controls.

00:45:58   Or use 3D Touch and Control Center

00:45:59   to unlock even more commands.

00:46:01   - Great, nice.

00:46:02   - Customizable.

00:46:03   Do not disturb when driving was cool.

00:46:05   - Yeah, that's a feature that is a long time coming

00:46:09   and need to be there.

00:46:11   I think it's good.

00:46:12   I think it's actually also good

00:46:14   because it lets the phone explicitly know

00:46:18   that it's in a no visuals mode

00:46:22   and there are ways to override and stuff like that.

00:46:25   But what I like about that is that I wonder

00:46:28   if that potentially means that that's an extra cue

00:46:30   for Siri to be more verbose.

00:46:32   - Possibly. - Which it should be.

00:46:33   Right, and say I'm not going to,

00:46:35   I'm going to speak to you now

00:46:37   and I'm not going to even try

00:46:39   to throw things up on the screen.

00:46:40   - My favorite part about it is the fact that

00:46:43   you as the driver are unable to break,

00:46:45   let things break through.

00:46:47   you put it in the hands of the person

00:46:49   communicating with you.

00:46:50   - Yeah.

00:46:51   - I think that's a really smart way of doing it.

00:46:52   Like it's the inverse of the way

00:46:54   that Do Not Disturb works right now.

00:46:56   Like if they would have just said,

00:46:57   "Oh, have it light up every time my wife texts me."

00:47:00   Well, that's not gonna be any good, right?

00:47:02   But the fact that you, if you sent something to me

00:47:05   while I was driving, the phone, my phone kind of

00:47:08   sends you a message back, it's like,

00:47:09   "Hey, I'm driving, if this is urgent,

00:47:11   reply with urgent and we'll ping the phone."

00:47:13   Reminds me of Slack.

00:47:15   Slacks do not disturb.

00:47:16   I feel like maybe there was some inspiration taken there

00:47:19   because that was something I hadn't seen before, right?

00:47:21   The idea of like, this person has do not disturb set,

00:47:24   but you can break it if you send the message again.

00:47:26   Like, I like that.

00:47:28   And so I'm pleased to see that there.

00:47:29   And I like the idea of when the driving idea

00:47:32   of putting it in the other person's hands,

00:47:34   I think makes a lot more sense

00:47:35   than having to confuse the driver or complicate the driver

00:47:38   when they're attempting to drive the car, right?

00:47:41   The App Store, Jason.

00:47:44   Now, we have the Apple Musification.

00:47:48   Yes, the App Store has Apple Music.

00:47:49   It's a new look, we'll have to see how it works.

00:47:52   I think developers are really curious to see how it works.

00:47:55   The one thing I walked away from that demo thinking about was, it looks to me like Apple's

00:48:00   App Store editors who traditionally never really get seen.

00:48:05   They pick featured apps and might write a very short blurb.

00:48:10   They showed off some like feature stories about apps that I think are written by App

00:48:17   Store content people.

00:48:18   So it is my understanding that Apple has been aggressively hiring for App Store editorial

00:48:25   teams recently.

00:48:28   And this would be why.

00:48:29   And they were talking about showing, in the tab, the homepage tab showing, well they have

00:48:35   Monument Valley 2, surprise.

00:48:37   Hello!

00:48:38   that's available today by the way just go to the App Store and search Monument Valley 2.

00:48:42   It's $5. I have it. I cannot wait to play it. That is going to be my airplane. I'm keeping it for the plane home.

00:48:48   But they have a whole feature story and they talk to the guy from Monument Valley and all that, right?

00:48:52   And so that's interesting. When I've talked to people about Apple's editorial things,

00:48:58   it was very much like, you know, you're picking apps. That's what you're doing.

00:49:02   And that is, this is one of those Phil Schiller things, I think. Which is, why can't we,

00:49:07   hire some good writers and write little pieces about these great apps to feature

00:49:14   them and make people excited about them so they did apparently. And Apple has

00:49:19   acknowledged that there are two types of software available. Games and apps. Yes and

00:49:25   they have split it out there's dedicated tabs, dedicated charts. I think this is a

00:49:29   really good thing for independent app development. Yeah it's great for everybody who is not a

00:49:32   game developer. I think this is good I think this is really good and also the

00:49:36   - The pages are richer, more videos and stuff like that.

00:49:39   It looks really great.

00:49:39   - Yeah.

00:49:41   - Machine learning, there's Core ML, Core Machine Learning.

00:49:44   Okay, Sprinkler and everything.

00:49:46   - Yep.

00:49:47   - I haven't really got anything to say about that,

00:49:48   but it exists.

00:49:49   ARKit looked awesome.

00:49:52   The demos they were showing. - Some great demos.

00:49:53   - Wow, that demo from the Wingnut people

00:49:56   when the little guy jumps off the table at the end.

00:49:59   I think it's gonna be really fun for games, Jason.

00:50:01   I'm really excited about this for games.

00:50:03   I think for the phone, like this makes more sense.

00:50:06   than VR because phone VR is not that good.

00:50:09   - Well, and as someone who's played Pokemon Go,

00:50:12   their little quick demo of like,

00:50:14   here's what Pokemon Go looks like with their AR kit.

00:50:18   And the ball like skitters past

00:50:19   and kind of like rolls up into the grass and all that.

00:50:21   It's like, there's a lot of potential here for everybody

00:50:24   to be able to take advantage of that.

00:50:25   - And you know what I really liked?

00:50:26   The Apple were like, here are the tools.

00:50:28   They had nothing to show.

00:50:29   I thought that was awesome.

00:50:30   There wasn't like a, here's what we can do in maps, right?

00:50:33   Which is the obvious one.

00:50:35   They're just like, look, this is some stuff we built.

00:50:37   Here's a couple of people who came in that built some stuff.

00:50:39   Here's the tools, go and make something awesome.

00:50:42   I'm really excited to see what happens come September

00:50:46   for when this comes out,

00:50:48   to see what kinds of AR games are existing.

00:50:50   I think this could be really, really, really fun.

00:50:52   And I'm very excited about this.

00:50:54   - All right, we should talk about the iPad.

00:50:56   - We should.

00:50:57   - But before we do that. - But before we do that.

00:50:59   - Oh, look at that, we're in the same room.

00:51:00   We both know what-- - Can I just say

00:51:01   before we do that? - We're reading minds here.

00:51:02   - I'm so excited about this, Jason Snow.

00:51:04   the iPad? Yeah. And not just that I'm about to tell you about mail route and we can say

00:51:08   mail bagging in person? I'm really excited about mail bagging. But I'm really excited

00:51:11   about the iPad. Alright well this, you're going to have to wait because this episode

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00:53:20   Jason Snell my gosh I I was on tenterhooks right I was really nervous

00:53:27   for a couple of reasons so so usually these things go two hours we're about an

00:53:33   hour and 40 minutes in the iPad has not been mentioned so I had some hope in

00:53:38   that there were iPads sitting on the table where they did the AR demo yes I

00:53:42   noticed that too that gave me hope yeah now tell you what I was worried about

00:53:46   - Obviously I was worried about the software.

00:53:48   I was also worried about Apple only doing a 10.5 inch.

00:53:53   I really didn't want that to happen.

00:53:58   Now, my plan here, by the way,

00:54:01   is to, I'm gonna get the 10.5.

00:54:04   I'm not gonna upgrade my 12.9.

00:54:06   I wanna see if the 10.5 is right for me,

00:54:09   because my assumption, again, we don't know this yet,

00:54:12   is if you can run two apps side by side in full

00:54:16   on the 10.5 like you can on the 12.9,

00:54:19   if the resolution is the same.

00:54:21   If it is, I wonder if that best of both worlds approach

00:54:25   will mean I don't want the 12.9 anymore.

00:54:27   - It's possible.

00:54:29   - But I want the 12.9 to exist for the line.

00:54:33   - Right, well, and it does.

00:54:35   - But I was worried that they were my two worries,

00:54:37   especially as they began the presentation as well.

00:54:39   It seemed like, you know, they started with like,

00:54:41   the 9.7 inch is our most popular model.

00:54:43   I was like, oh no.

00:54:44   - Like the 12.9's going away. - I was there too.

00:54:46   I was there too.

00:54:47   And they also at one point said,

00:54:48   "Oh, this is the thing that everybody's gonna love."

00:54:51   And I was like, and also the 12.9 is available

00:54:54   for those who love it, which I also do.

00:54:56   - It looks like the 12.9 is maybe not getting

00:54:58   100% of the features the 9.7 is getting,

00:55:01   but it is-- - Really?

00:55:02   - It was difficult to tell for me, I think.

00:55:04   - I think in the presentation it was clear

00:55:06   that everything was going everywhere.

00:55:07   And in fact, the reason that I thought that

00:55:09   was because they announced as new some features

00:55:12   that aren't new to one of them.

00:55:15   - Right, okay. - Right?

00:55:16   'Cause they announced like USB 3 is new.

00:55:17   It's not new.

00:55:19   The 12.9 has USB 3 already.

00:55:23   - Yeah, I mean, you're right.

00:55:23   I'm looking through it right now.

00:55:25   - They announced the refresh. - And they both get the chips

00:55:26   and all that sort of stuff. - That ProMotion thing

00:55:28   with 120 megahertz refresh,

00:55:29   I think the 9.7 iPad Pro did that.

00:55:33   I think it did 120.

00:55:36   Maybe it only did 60.

00:55:38   - I don't think it did 120.

00:55:39   - But it did variable refresh, I can tell you that.

00:55:42   - Yeah, yeah, we know that.

00:55:42   - It did variable refresh.

00:55:43   - I don't think it was at 120.

00:55:45   - So the way I read this was that now they all do all of it.

00:55:49   - I'm looking through the product page right now

00:55:51   and I think you're right, it looks like that,

00:55:53   but it was just, it was weirdly placed in the keynote,

00:55:56   like where they were showing one and not the other,

00:55:58   but you know, it's the 10.5 looks great,

00:56:02   screen's 20% larger, it still only weighs a pound.

00:56:05   - Yeah, looks like it is that math.

00:56:06   - Full-size on-screen keyboard, whatever that means.

00:56:08   - That's pretty neat math that it's essentially,

00:56:11   this is basically the 10.5 is the iPad mini

00:56:14   of the iPad Pro 12.9.

00:56:16   It's a shrunken down iPad Pro 12.9 screen.

00:56:20   So higher pixel density.

00:56:21   - And they're bringing out what looks like

00:56:22   a new smart keyboard for that one.

00:56:24   - Yeah, well, 'cause the dimensions are different.

00:56:25   So the smart keyboards are different.

00:56:27   It means that that keyboard is going to have bigger keys

00:56:30   than the 9.7, which they said allows it

00:56:32   to be declared as full size.

00:56:33   - In 30 languages.

00:56:35   - Yeah, which is huge as we remember from--

00:56:38   months. Lots of people being frustrated by the fact that that original smart

00:56:41   keyword was just US only forever. A10X is in this. Think of the A10X Fusion chip.

00:56:48   Six cores in an iPad. Yeah. Three high performance, three low power. Yeah.

00:56:54   40% faster graphics. Still 10 hour battery. That's a classic 10 hour battery.

00:57:00   Monster machine. No, it's serious. If only... iPhone 7 camera. Yeah, front and back.

00:57:07   iPhone 7 camera. Myke, if only there were... if only iOS could be adapted to be more

00:57:14   powerful, to allow a device this powerful to behave a little bit more

00:57:20   like a traditional computer in terms of productivity features.

00:57:24   The very first thing they showed I started screaming. The dock. When they put that

00:57:30   dock on there I just I just screamed because I didn't think they were gonna

00:57:37   do anything to the home screen and they kind of didn't but yeah but this is

00:57:41   something like you take an app it goes into the dock and it lives there the dock

00:57:46   can be brought up from anywhere yeah that's the I don't know how you do that

00:57:49   I mean that before the dock was literally like well these are the apps

00:57:52   that you see on any page of the home screen but now the dock is much more

00:57:56   than that there are they look like there are more apps packed in there you can

00:57:59   swipe up. It looks like a little bit like what Federico was imagining with the

00:58:03   shelf. Right, like there is there is elements of it in there. That was more for data but this is a place that you put your most

00:58:08   important apps and there's a predictive area off on the right side. And you can get recent stuff

00:58:12   from the files app. Looks a lot and it's got a contextual pop-up basically for at

00:58:18   least some of them so it's very much reminiscent of the Mac stock and not the

00:58:23   traditional iOS stock. And the multitasking is better than I ever

00:58:29   ever could have imagined that you just can just drag an app out and it just

00:58:33   hovers there yeah you can put it wherever you want so slide over seems to

00:58:38   now be well no it's still he still called it slide over right slide over

00:58:43   now doesn't mean you slide it over from the right slide over now anywhere you

00:58:47   can slide it over to the left or the right it's a picture in picture did you

00:58:50   notice that it's floating on top of the other app it's beautiful you actually

00:58:53   can sort of see the the edge there so it just kind of floats there when you're

00:58:56   using it and then you can tap the edge and then it pops into place if you want

00:59:00   to have it be split view otherwise it'll just pop back down so the control center

00:59:04   is gone because now control center is how you invoke multitasking one swipe up

00:59:10   and it goes to this beautiful expose like view right so you swipe up one you

00:59:16   swipe up a little bit to bring up the dock and all the way to bring up it's

00:59:21   every day it's mission control control center spaces basically the thing that I

00:59:25   I mean, we spoke about this, I know I've mentioned this in the past, the ability to pair apps together.

00:59:31   I wrote a whole article about that at one point that I wanted to be able to do that, and I kept thinking of the mechanisms for it.

00:59:37   And it's funny, we've talked about this so long now, because it's been two years, that we've hit on a lot of this, along with all the things we didn't hit on.

00:59:46   Because I feel like, oh, at some point we talked about spaces as a way to do this.

00:59:52   And here it is.

00:59:53   - It was when we were talking about windowing.

00:59:55   - Yeah.

00:59:56   - Right, so when we were having that big discussion

00:59:57   about whether the iPad should get windows,

01:00:00   we were talking about the idea of there being spaces

01:00:03   and paired applications is the way we prefer it.

01:00:06   I'm just, I'm smitten.

01:00:09   I really am, I'm so excited about this.

01:00:12   - Yeah, you know, it's gonna be in the details,

01:00:13   but it looks great.

01:00:15   - Drag and drop looks fantastic.

01:00:16   - Drag and drop looks exactly--

01:00:17   - Oh, the multi-selection thing.

01:00:19   - See, and that's, you talk about Federico's mock-up

01:00:21   of the doc and I remember seeing it at the time

01:00:24   of that shelf and thinking, what you really wanna do

01:00:28   is be able to drag something from an app

01:00:30   to another app that's running that isn't currently visible.

01:00:34   And that's what they did.

01:00:36   So now you can drag and then drag it

01:00:39   into one of those other apps and it'll come forward

01:00:43   and then you drop it.

01:00:45   - Images, text, URL, attachments from files.

01:00:49   files my okay son this application yet it's it's all I'm so I was sitting next

01:00:56   to Dave Hamilton who's been writing about the Mac for a very long time and

01:00:59   he turned to me and he said it's not right for us to be this excited about

01:01:01   this because it is just a file browser and yet it is also the final crumbling

01:01:09   but imagine you're in a totalitarian state where files are outlawed then a

01:01:14   file browser is the great addition is over it is over this is the final

01:01:19   crumbling it started with the iCloud Drive app this is the final crumbling

01:01:22   where the the people who bring you iOS are saying you know what yeah you

01:01:26   probably have files maybe we should let you use those files and and I will point

01:01:31   out to another little crumble is Mac style it's got in that sidebar which is

01:01:38   very much like a finder window in the Mac don't call it the finder it's files

01:01:41   but it's a little bit like the finder one of the things it's got its iCloud

01:01:46   iCloud drive has been the fake file system in the iPad for a while now right?

01:01:50   it's like oh well you do have a file system it's iCloud drive and it syncs

01:01:54   but it's still you know it's still files and folders now if you look at the

01:01:57   locations it's got it's got iCloud drive it's got Dropbox box other things that

01:02:01   use that third-party just real quick on that

01:02:03   yeah I should finish your point and it's got a thing they didn't show it other

01:02:08   than just in the sidebar called on my iPad

01:02:12   Oh. Well what's that? That's local storage. That is unsynced, it's gotta be right? Unsynced

01:02:20   local storage on my iPad, like on my Mac. It's not in iCloud Drive, it's on my iPad.

01:02:26   Oh, I don't know what that means. I don't know either. Photos? I was thinking it could

01:02:33   be, it could even be files. Or maybe it's even, it's like by app. In the little app

01:02:38   storage areas right? Here's the thing what I'm so excited about that they did. What they could

01:02:44   have done was just say and document providers will be able to integrate with this but no what did they

01:02:48   do? They went to the companies and they've done it in advance and then they put their logos on

01:02:55   the slide and name check them. This is the commitment from them. So what we got today was

01:03:03   was what Mac users got a couple of months ago.

01:03:06   This was a reaffirmed commitment.

01:03:08   Doing stuff like that and name checking these companies,

01:03:12   that is because they know that this has to work

01:03:14   and it only works with the buy-in.

01:03:16   So getting that in advance is huge, it's huge.

01:03:21   Like, I don't care that Finder is on the Mac.

01:03:26   I don't care, right, you can make your jokes, right?

01:03:30   Go for it.

01:03:31   But for iPad users, this is amazing, right?

01:03:34   Because what they've done is, look at all of this stuff.

01:03:37   They have reimagined macOS for iOS.

01:03:41   - And that's the key point.

01:03:42   I saw somebody sort of cynically tweet about how,

01:03:46   oh great, finder on the iPad, that's not what you want.

01:03:50   You don't wanna bring the Mac to the iPad.

01:03:53   It's like they didn't bring the Mac to the iPad.

01:03:54   - They took the ideas.

01:03:56   - They created an iOS file browser.

01:03:58   We'll see how good it is, right?

01:03:59   And we gotta use it.

01:04:00   - Expos√© and Finder, they took the iPad,

01:04:02   what those things are supposed to provide,

01:04:05   and then they made the iPad versions of them.

01:04:08   Because like the dock, when you don't,

01:04:11   when you can click an app and it'll open it,

01:04:13   but if you drag something on the Mac,

01:04:16   it just gets rid of it from the dock.

01:04:18   It doesn't open it in a pop-up window, right?

01:04:21   Like this is different.

01:04:23   And I'm so excited, I'm so excited.

01:04:25   Now, I did a lot of stuff with a pencil,

01:04:28   which looks really good.

01:04:30   I think that I might begin to lose my ability

01:04:33   to navigate my interface with the pencil

01:04:35   because it looks like that they're doing more here.

01:04:37   But I said this, I was watching the keynote

01:04:40   with Grey this morning.

01:04:41   And we were both proponents of the ability

01:04:45   to use the Apple Pencil for UI.

01:04:47   And when it was taken away in like a iOS 10 or nine

01:04:50   something, we were really upset about that.

01:04:53   But my problem with it at the time was

01:04:55   it seemed like it was just taken away to give nothing

01:04:57   because I took it away and there was no new features

01:04:59   in the beta.

01:05:01   But here is like, if I can't do that anymore, okay.

01:05:04   I now have all these amazing features that I can do

01:05:06   with this like system wide markup,

01:05:09   inline drawing and notes of mail.

01:05:11   Like if you're gonna take away a feature,

01:05:13   give me something else in return and this is it.

01:05:16   With the most awesome one of these being,

01:05:18   if you take a screenshot,

01:05:20   it like minimizes down to the bottom left,

01:05:22   so you can tap it, mark it up and send it off.

01:05:26   We do have a Twitter verification that in the developer release one of iOS 11, pencil

01:05:33   still does work for you.

01:05:34   I'm so excited.

01:05:35   So you don't need to make that Faustian bargain.

01:05:38   They gave me everything.

01:05:39   They give me everything I want.

01:05:40   I am just...

01:05:41   I wanted to mention a couple of features that people were really happy about that I think

01:05:45   are nice features, but I want to point out that they're also features that have been

01:05:48   around a long time, just not from Apple.

01:05:51   One of those is the document scanner, which you've been able to do in things like ScannerPro

01:05:55   for a long time. - Like people freaking out,

01:05:56   but like who doesn't have one of those apps that needs it?

01:05:58   - Exactly, well, the answer is there are people

01:06:00   who don't know they exist and now it'll just work in photos

01:06:03   and that's great, you know, or camera app, great.

01:06:05   - Handwriting search, the OCR of handwriting.

01:06:07   - And that was the other thing I was gonna say,

01:06:09   which is that's also a feature that's been out there

01:06:11   in a million things, but now it's in notes and that's good.

01:06:14   It's good, let's just get, we'll give them Apple credit

01:06:16   for implementing those things that have been elsewhere

01:06:21   that they should have implemented

01:06:23   because they have implemented them now. Good for them.

01:06:26   They give me everything I want. I'm thrilled. I'm genuinely thrilled about this. I am counting

01:06:35   down the days now.

01:06:36   I sat there, positively giddy, typing onto my iPad because of course I used my iPad today.

01:06:44   I can't wait to see Federico. I haven't seen him.

01:06:47   I saw a picture of him. He was looking pretty happy.

01:06:49   I saw a picture of him almost praying, but I think I'm just going to hug him because

01:06:55   I know this is everything that we want and I'm so excited about it. I can't wait. Now.

01:07:04   I don't know if we call this the main event. I think we were expecting it to be the Siri

01:07:10   speaker called HomePod. HomePod. I don't like the way that sounds. I think it's a good name.

01:07:18   I don't like the way it sounds.

01:07:19   I think you'll get used to it.

01:07:20   But I think it's a good name.

01:07:21   I was thinking just the other day about how, um, I like the iPod name has been

01:07:27   brought back with things like, like AirPods and AirPods.

01:07:33   And so I think it's good.

01:07:35   I think it's a good name.

01:07:36   I need it used to it.

01:07:38   Um, because it's so far away from any of the names I would have

01:07:42   expected them to call this product.

01:07:43   I kicked myself when I, when I heard it, I was like, of course it's HomePod.

01:07:46   Of course it is.

01:07:48   And it for a while seemed like this was literally just an Apple Music speaker.

01:07:52   It took them a long time to talk about Siri in this thing.

01:07:55   So we talked about Siri before.

01:07:57   It's worth talking about it again.

01:07:59   This is where Apple chose not to focus this product.

01:08:02   This product is an Apple Music product, not a Siri product.

01:08:05   And I think that's maybe a good choice.

01:08:07   Well, it's a good choice if they didn't have all the Siri capabilities

01:08:12   that we were hoping they would have, right?

01:08:13   Yeah, I think they have their...

01:08:15   It's a good choice then.

01:08:15   their confidence in Siri versus their confidence in Apple Music, right?

01:08:21   It is still, you know, driven by Siri, but it's a music product first and foremost

01:08:27   with those speakers and access to Apple Music and presumably, you know, multi-speaker sync

01:08:35   because they showed that in that one example of you could have two of them.

01:08:39   But yeah, so it's interesting.

01:08:42   It's the Apple's first venture into the home speaker market since the iPod Hi-Fi.

01:08:47   It's cheaper than the iPod Hi-Fi was.

01:08:49   That's good.

01:08:50   349, you called that?

01:08:52   I called it.

01:08:53   I did.

01:08:54   I got something right.

01:08:55   Dan Morin was really excited when the price was announced because you got it.

01:08:57   Yeah.

01:08:58   I'm happy UK, US, Australia is when it comes out December.

01:09:03   It really is an Apple Music focused device and they spoke so much about the filling the

01:09:07   room sound and analyzing the room and all that sort of stuff.

01:09:11   It looks kind of nice.

01:09:12   I'm not sold on the design.

01:09:14   I was hoping a little for a little bit more.

01:09:16   I don't know what, but I think I was hoping

01:09:18   for a little bit more.

01:09:19   I really thought it was gonna have a screen on it.

01:09:21   I'm very surprised that it doesn't.

01:09:23   - I fully support that because I've been, you know,

01:09:26   I've been happy with my Echo.

01:09:27   - Me too, but I thought--

01:09:28   - Not having a screen.

01:09:29   And my fear was that if Apple put a screen in it,

01:09:32   they did it because they weren't confident enough

01:09:34   in their voice controls.

01:09:36   And they were gonna punt things to the screen

01:09:37   like they do sometimes on the iPhone.

01:09:39   And this way they don't have that excuse.

01:09:42   - One of the things we were talking about last week,

01:09:43   and we were talking about it when we were saying

01:09:45   about what Siri can do on the Mac, right,

01:09:48   is that Siri is this weird thing

01:09:52   which is just subsets of functionality by device,

01:09:56   and it's happening again.

01:09:57   They said, "We're bringing some aspects of Siri over.

01:10:01   "We're working hard at that."

01:10:03   And they spoke about ones that are relevant, right?

01:10:05   HomeKit, it will do all the HomeKit stuff,

01:10:07   it will play your podcasts, but it's not everything.

01:10:10   I assume it'll play podcasts sort of ideally synced with the same syncing engine that they're

01:10:15   used on the podcast app on iOS and iTunes.

01:10:17   Yeah, and it's going to use the podcast app on iOS.

01:10:19   So I'm not going to get what I want, which would be to play with other cars because it

01:10:22   doesn't look like that is part of SiriKit still.

01:10:25   Right.

01:10:27   Except you may be able to like airplay to it.

01:10:30   Sure, but that's not what I want to do.

01:10:35   I mean, I can connect my phone to Bluetooth with my Echo and play it fine.

01:10:39   I'm not really not sold on this.

01:10:41   I'm actually a little bit down on it compared to what I was hoping it would be.

01:10:45   It looks nice.

01:10:47   It looks like it would do some good stuff.

01:10:49   The hardware looks great.

01:10:50   But you know what, though?

01:10:51   I don't really play a lot of music at home.

01:10:53   Like just out in the house, we don't we're not really a family

01:10:58   that very frequently plays music.

01:11:01   We do. We do.

01:11:03   And we have company.

01:11:04   But like when me and Adina are home, there isn't unless we're like

01:11:08   doing a thing, like if we're just like hanging out, there's not really music playing.

01:11:12   So I don't know if this like

01:11:15   purely focused on music product is the right one for us. I want to see more about

01:11:20   what Siri can do with it. That's what I want to see.

01:11:23   Yeah, the way it's engineered and the way it's priced, I feel like if you don't

01:11:28   want to use it as a nice set of,

01:11:30   as a nice speaker for music playback, it may not be the product for you.

01:11:34   This is what this product is for, primarily.

01:11:37   its music. That's what they're going on. And it does HomeKit. I think that was logical.

01:11:41   That was something that I think we all expected.

01:11:43   I would have been crazy.

01:11:44   Because it's the perfect thing, in fact, to have that, to have a permanent resident HomeKit

01:11:49   server basically running. Apple TV will also do that. And an iPad can do it. But to have

01:11:55   it in this device, in the HomePod, makes sense. And Home's in the name, right? So it's got

01:12:01   to do HomeKit. And so it does. I don't know. I'm looking forward to hearing how it sounds.

01:12:06   I'm hearing how it sounds and all that. I'm an Apple Music subscriber and one of my

01:12:10   frustrations with with uh... the Echo is that it doesn't have access to my

01:12:14   Apple Music library.

01:12:16   My Sonos does.

01:12:18   When they put Sonos and the Echo on the screen

01:12:21   they're like shots fired. I like the directness of that because that was not

01:12:24   wiby koi. That's exactly what they're talking about. They're talking about sound

01:12:28   quality, they mean Sonos and they're talking about

01:12:30   lady in a can, they mean Alexa. So let's put the Echo and the Sonos up there.

01:12:35   Let's, you know, game on.

01:12:36   They announced that there would be Sonos integration

01:12:40   with the Echo at some point, probably this year.

01:12:43   And I'm looking forward to seeing that too,

01:12:45   because I have Sonos equipment and I have the Echo.

01:12:47   So, you know, if I can tell the lady to play music

01:12:52   on the Sonos, I might not need a HomePod.

01:12:56   - This is like the audio equipment,

01:12:58   like these array of seven beam forming tweeters

01:13:01   and an Apple designed woofer.

01:13:03   Like if you like, if music is really your thing,

01:13:05   like this is a product for you.

01:13:07   I mean, I wanna see more, like I said,

01:13:10   I think what I wanted, Jason,

01:13:12   was Apple's version of the Amazon Echo.

01:13:14   And I think that right now they haven't necessarily

01:13:17   shown me that, right?

01:13:19   They've shown me like it is a speaker

01:13:22   that can also do some stuff.

01:13:24   - Well, I don't know.

01:13:26   I would say it is Apple's version of the Amazon Echo,

01:13:29   but what they've decided to do

01:13:30   is pick a primary purpose for it.

01:13:33   - Okay. - And that's music.

01:13:35   - Yeah, I feel like they haven't shown me

01:13:35   the other stuff, yeah. - And the Amazon Echo,

01:13:37   I would actually argue the Amazon Echo when it came out

01:13:39   was a little bit like what the criticism we had

01:13:41   about the Apple Watch when it was announced,

01:13:43   which is, what's it for?

01:13:44   Oh, it's for everything. - Oh, everything.

01:13:45   - It's for everything.

01:13:46   It's got speakers and you can talk to it

01:13:47   and it'll do stuff.

01:13:48   And so I kind of appreciate Apple's,

01:13:51   I'm gonna say it again, Apple's kind of perspective here.

01:13:55   It's opinionated design.

01:13:57   It's like, Apple didn't make a,

01:13:59   it can be everything home product.

01:14:01   It made a connected speaker with other stuff.

01:14:06   And some of that is marketing,

01:14:07   but some of that is product design.

01:14:10   - Yeah, okay.

01:14:11   - And we'll see.

01:14:13   I mean, those decisions will steer it towards some users

01:14:17   and away from others.

01:14:18   And I wonder where this product line goes from here.

01:14:23   Easy to say, it's not gonna ship till the end of the year,

01:14:25   But is this it or is this the beginning of some other connected home devices from Apple

01:14:31   that they nestle in other parts of our lives?

01:14:34   Because that's where Amazon is now with its history with the Echo is now starting to iterate

01:14:39   on all these different variations of the Echo in different little niches inside the home.

01:14:45   Maybe Apple will do that.

01:14:47   Maybe this is the only one that Apple cares about.

01:14:49   What I'm expecting and hoping is that in six months time when they do like what they did

01:14:53   with the Apple Watch, right? They show it off six months time, they show it again and

01:14:56   they show how much further they've gotten. I'm hoping to see a more full demo. There

01:15:01   wasn't really a demo of this at all in any way.

01:15:04   No, and they were in the hands-on area as sort of like you could look at them. They

01:15:09   were not listing in "Do Not Touch", no. So I'm excited to see that.

01:15:13   They were little Kleenex boxes. Last week we touched upon WWDC being the start

01:15:19   of the year for Apple, right? This is the start of the year.

01:15:22   the firing, the opening gun has been fired, the clock is running.

01:15:27   The theme of the last year, iOS 10 to iOS 11, it's been a bad year, it's been full of pessimism.

01:15:35   I feel like the theme of the year has been "we're all disappointed in Apple", right?

01:15:40   To varying degrees across different product lines.

01:15:46   I'm hoping for optimism now.

01:15:49   I feel like they've got their house in order a little bit more.

01:15:53   They are showing Mac users products, right?

01:15:57   Because I don't know if Mac users really, really are like aching

01:16:01   for Mac OS stuff so much, right?

01:16:04   Like how we are with iOS, right?

01:16:07   Like, I don't think they're looking for that feature

01:16:08   that they really need to get their work done.

01:16:10   No, they're just looking for the hardware to be updated.

01:16:12   And the hardware has now been updated.

01:16:14   It was updated in October.

01:16:15   that same hardware has been updated again.

01:16:17   - Yep. - And more hardware

01:16:18   and hardware you didn't even expect

01:16:19   and previews of more and you know there's still more coming.

01:16:22   The iPad, this is, like they said it

01:16:26   and I believe this is the biggest iPad update

01:16:29   Apple have ever done.

01:16:31   - Yeah, no, this is the moment

01:16:32   where the iPad Pro becomes a computer.

01:16:34   - The iPad now has significantly diverged from the iPhone.

01:16:39   - Absolutely.

01:16:40   - And it never has really,

01:16:41   I mean, like split screen was the start of that

01:16:43   but this is like, the home screen's not the same anymore.

01:16:47   Right, like this is big.

01:16:49   Like I am feeling right now really excited

01:16:53   in a way that I didn't feel last year.

01:16:56   Like last year was a bit of a plumber.

01:17:00   - As an iPad user last year was a huge letdown.

01:17:02   - But then like even on the iPhone it was like,

01:17:05   stickers and messages, like messaging was the big thing.

01:17:09   And it was great if you, you know,

01:17:10   I was excited about stickers, I still love them.

01:17:12   But that wasn't a huge thing.

01:17:15   - You excited about stickers?

01:17:17   - I still use them, I really like them, I do.

01:17:20   A lot of people still don't, but I do all the time.

01:17:23   But this is, I'm telling you man,

01:17:26   I'm really excited for the next six months.

01:17:30   - So the next step is people are gonna install these betas

01:17:34   and we're gonna get a better sense of it,

01:17:36   of how they work and...

01:17:39   - I guess within the next week,

01:17:41   people are going to have the iPads, right?

01:17:43   'Cause they're coming out next week,

01:17:44   so I'm sure we'll start to see reviews in the coming days.

01:17:46   - I hope so.

01:17:47   - I'm really excited, Jason.

01:17:50   This is great, I'm pumped.

01:17:53   'Cause I will say, I feel like, you know,

01:17:55   the way that it's been, it's been frustrating.

01:17:59   We've spoke about this on the show,

01:18:00   it's frustrating to talk about Apple App

01:18:00   It's frustrating to talk about Apple points this year.

01:18:02   - Yeah, sure.

01:18:03   - But this is like, yeah, okay.

01:18:06   - And for iPad people who did not get the vote of confidence

01:18:10   where people were called into a room at Apple somewhere

01:18:13   to be told that there's a pro strategy coming.

01:18:15   - We just got it.

01:18:16   - We just got it after not really feeling like

01:18:20   we had heard anything since last spring

01:18:22   when the 9.7 iPad Pro came out.

01:18:25   And the promise of the iPad Pro line,

01:18:29   which has been sort of laying there since late,

01:18:33   the previous year when iOS 9 had come out

01:18:36   and it looked like, oh, we're going places

01:18:39   and we didn't really go anywhere.

01:18:42   But today we got the suggestion

01:18:44   that we are now headed somewhere with iOS 11

01:18:46   and the iPad Pro and I'm excited.

01:18:48   - I feel like there is the possibility for the iPad

01:18:51   to go further than it's ever been.

01:18:54   And I was talking to David Sparks this morning

01:18:56   and he said the best thing to happen to the iPad

01:18:59   was sales declining because it is the sales declining which has forced them to do something.

01:19:06   To not just take it for granted that if they make a tablet with an iPhone interface on

01:19:10   it. The sales declining has forced them to put this amazing software effort in. I would

01:19:15   argue that this is an existential problem for Apple in the sense of outside of the iPhone

01:19:20   what is their compute core computing future. Like there are two scenarios there's one scenario

01:19:26   where Apple in the long run is just an iPhone company.

01:19:29   And there's a scenario where Apple in the long run

01:19:31   is an iPhone company and a larger scale

01:19:34   kind of device company as they are now.

01:19:38   And for them to do that,

01:19:40   they need to have a next generation device strategy for that.

01:19:45   Microsoft's strategy is, oh God, we have no phones,

01:19:48   we better make this good, everybody's using Windows,

01:19:51   let's just turn Windows into something

01:19:53   that can be convertible and be on a touchscreen

01:19:55   and we'll do a different interface overlay and all of these things.

01:19:58   Apple's approach up to now has been, well, we've got the Mac over here,

01:20:01   which we're not going to change much, not going to make it a touchscreen, that's silly.

01:20:06   And we've got the iPad over here, which is all great, but in the end,

01:20:11   one of those tools needs to evolve.

01:20:13   And today, we saw the iPad evolve.

01:20:16   I'm excited about that because I think that says something

01:20:19   about Apple investing a little bit more in the fact that it's going

01:20:22   to have professional products in its touch operating system.

01:20:27   And that means it's building for the future there.

01:20:31   And that's good, 'cause I was starting to wonder.

01:20:33   - I'm gonna buy my 10.5 inch iPad.

01:20:39   Did I tell you something?

01:20:40   I was just looking at the store.

01:20:41   I'm very surprised about it.

01:20:42   Do you know what's not available anymore?

01:20:44   The 9.7 inch iPad, bro.

01:20:46   You can't buy it. - Yeah, it's gone.

01:20:47   No, the 10.5 is the replacement for the 9.7,

01:20:49   Which means now the 9.7 is the iPad.

01:20:54   - Yeah.

01:20:56   - And then the 10.5 and the 12.9 are iPad Pro

01:20:59   and that's a much clearer division now.

01:21:03   - 512 gigabytes it goes up to.

01:21:05   That's a lot of space for an iPad, huh?

01:21:08   So yeah, it wraps it up.

01:21:10   This has been a great day.

01:21:12   I'm really excited.

01:21:13   Obviously we're gonna know so much more.

01:21:15   So within the next 24 hours,

01:21:17   so I recommend tuning into connector tomorrow.

01:21:19   It's gonna be the first time we're ever recording the show as a three people three person just the show cuz last year

01:21:25   We did the whole relaycon event. Oh, right, right

01:21:28   We had everyone come on a stage

01:21:29   It's the first time three of us are actually recording the show together in like the whole time that we've been doing

01:21:33   Working together over his life like four years. It's awesome. So we're gonna be doing that

01:21:37   I cannot basically I assume Steven just gets up and leaves up. Yeah point because me and Federico are crying Steven

01:21:44   We'll talk about max for a while and then you'll go get him talk. We'll be so excited

01:21:47   So he'll get himself a beverage.

01:21:48   We've got a ton more content coming across the whole network this week.

01:21:51   There are live shows on under the radar.

01:21:53   There's so much stuff.

01:21:54   So go to relay.fm.

01:21:56   You'll find more there.

01:21:57   Thanks again to Encapture the Squarespace and Mail Route.

01:22:00   Of course, Jason has a ton more coverage coming up this week at SixColors.com

01:22:04   and you can find him.

01:22:05   He's @jasonel on Twitter, JSNELL.

01:22:08   I am @imike, I M Y K E.

01:22:10   If you are in town, please come up and say hi.

01:22:13   We would love that.

01:22:14   And until then, we'll be back next time.

01:22:16   Until next time, Mr. Jason Snow. Say goodbye.

01:22:19   Goodbye Myke.

01:22:20   [ Music ]

01:22:26   [ Silence ]