139: Make Money from the Money


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:08   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade episode 139.

00:00:13   Today's show is brought to you by our fine sponsors,

00:00:16   the folk at Encapsula, Casper, and Mac Weldon.

00:00:19   My name is Myke Hurley.

00:00:21   I am joined by Mr. Jason Snell.

00:00:23   Hi, Jason Snell.

00:00:24   - Hi, Myke Hurley.

00:00:26   - How are you today?

00:00:28   - I'm fine.

00:00:29   I would tell you about the weather, but I'm not allowed to do that anymore.

00:00:32   No, today, Jason, you have to tell me in our Snail Talks segment about your favorite peanut

00:00:38   butter as asked by Timocas because they said that you have mentioned this on a couple of

00:00:42   shows recently that you like peanut butter and they want to know what brand of peanut

00:00:46   butter is the Snail Approved brand.

00:00:48   I'm, I, okay, yeah, peanut butter is my favorite food, that's true. I decided this

00:00:54   finally after 40 plus years on this planet I finally realized my favorite food is peanut

00:01:01   butter. You know, you always think of something else and then like a meal or something and

00:01:07   says no, it's peanut butter. I buy the peanut butter I get from Trader Joe's and I prefer

00:01:17   the crunchy to the smooth and I feel like I get really John Syracuse on this and that's

00:01:23   probably not wise, but I will say that generally I prefer the, you know, what, when I was a

00:01:29   kid, we called the 100% natural peanut butter and it's the kind that doesn't have any other

00:01:33   ingredients other than peanuts and salt. So, none of the like stabilized, put it in your

00:01:42   pantry, don't refrigerate it kind of peanut butters that they make where they change the

00:01:46   oil that's in it and take out the peanut oil and none of that stuff. The real deal. The

00:01:50   real stuff and the stuff that I get for my daily use is Trader Joe's.

00:01:55   All right, well. There you go.

00:01:58   I'll never eat it but I'm pleased you like it. Do you know I have a peanut allergy?

00:02:03   Did you, how do you, how are you feeling now that we talked about peanuts? Is that okay?

00:02:07   Are you still, are you having a reaction? Do you need to take some?

00:02:09   Passed out for a moment there but I'm back to it now.

00:02:13   You visualized eating a peanut and then passed out and realized it was just a visualization.

00:02:19   You're more allergic to the idea of peanuts.

00:02:23   I'm allergic to peanuts as a concept as opposed to peanuts as a food, so that's my real problem

00:02:30   in life.

00:02:31   Don't read any Charlie Brown and Snoopy comics.

00:02:34   You could die.

00:02:35   Jason Snell, we have some exciting news to share with the Upgradians.

00:02:39   Do we?

00:02:40   That they now have the opportunity to be Downloadians as well, if they wish to be.

00:02:46   We have a new show on Relay FM and it's called "Download" and this is a show idea that me

00:02:51   and Steven and you have been working on together for quite some time. I am not involved in

00:02:55   the production of the show. You are the host of this show and Steven is your producer.

00:03:02   Would you like to tell the upgradings a little bit about what "Download" is?

00:03:06   Yeah, I mean it is different. It is a different kind of thing for Relay, I would say. In general,

00:03:14   we were in Memphis last summer, we talked about the idea of a show like this for a while,

00:03:20   and the idea was could we do something that covered a broader tech base than just, like,

00:03:27   even like Clockwise, which I do with Dan, is, because of my background and Dan's background,

00:03:32   a little more Apple-focused and it's also very time-constrained for topics in 30 minutes,

00:03:38   we thought, what if we did something that was less Apple-focused, did not have that

00:03:42   kind of a time constraint. You could really discuss sort of the issues of the week. And

00:03:49   in terms of some of the ways it's structured, like Steven is, so I'm hosting it, Steven

00:03:55   is producing it, which is kind of a different thing. He's there on the call, but generally

00:04:00   doesn't participate much. He's more there as our facilitator. We're trying to, you know,

00:04:05   just to have it be a little bit different and then putting it, putting the show together

00:04:11   and having it be. Ideally, it's a recap of its discussion of the stories of the week

00:04:19   in the general tech world for people to listen to at the end of the week. So that's sort

00:04:24   of our part of the conception of it that I remember you and I talked about too, the idea

00:04:28   that you do a week recap and you have it available for people to listen to basically on their

00:04:33   Friday commutes. So we're recording it on Thursdays and releasing sort of Thursday afternoon-ish

00:04:41   And, and so it's on people's devices if they want to listen on Friday, either morning or

00:04:46   afternoon on their commutes as a sort of capper to the week of like what's been going on in

00:04:51   the broader tech field. And then the idea of the guests is that this is a place where

00:04:56   we want to bring in people, some familiar voices, but we also want to bring in new people

00:05:00   who haven't been on relay before at all and introduce people to some new interesting people

00:05:07   and voices talking about technology. That is going to be one of the biggest, I think,

00:05:13   challenges in the show is finding and, you know, uncovering those people and bringing

00:05:19   them on the show and then, you know, there's the logistics of scheduling them to come on

00:05:23   and getting that all working and that, but that's part of the premise of the show is

00:05:27   to have it be. It's not a, it's not the same people every week. It's new people and it's

00:05:33   hopefully from a different and larger pool than maybe we use for Clockwise.

00:05:39   And it's a different JSON to the JSON that we get on Upgrade, isn't it?

00:05:42   Yeah, I mean, I already have a show where I can talk about what topics I want to talk

00:05:48   about every week and that's Upgrade, right?

00:05:50   So in Download, the idea is that I'm the host and that's part of the premise is I am asking

00:05:57   questions and facilitating conversation, but you should hear my voice a lot less on Download

00:06:03   than you do on upgrade. My goal is to use my skills that I built up as an interviewer

00:06:11   and as a podcaster to try and facilitate conversation with the interesting people that we have on

00:06:21   as panelists. So really, I think if I'm doing my job, I'm getting a lot of interesting conversation

00:06:27   out of the guests and not filling it with my own stuff because I have other places that

00:06:34   I can do that and that's not my goal with download.

00:06:37   So it's an ambitious project that you guys are taking on and I really enjoyed listening

00:06:43   to episode one where your guests were surrounded by called Lisa Schmeiser. You talk about a

00:06:47   bunch of really interesting stuff including the Amazon look which it was really interesting

00:06:51   to hear them talk about it especially Lisa because she seems to have quite a background

00:06:54   in retail, like understanding the inner workings of retail. So people can go and find it. It's

00:06:59   at relay.fm/download and there are a bunch of ways that listeners can participate and

00:07:05   you talk about that on the show. But I think another one which is quite interesting, you

00:07:08   know, we talk about and you were speaking about trying to find new and interesting voices.

00:07:13   I mean I think you would very much appreciate people letting you know who they want to hear

00:07:17   on the show as well as the stories, right?

00:07:19   Yeah, and there's people can tweet at underscore download FM, which just fits right in with

00:07:26   all the other relay accounts.

00:07:27   So that's really difficult to get anything with the word download in it on Twitter, right?

00:07:32   Yeah, probably. So there's a funny thing, I had a bunch of people respond saying, "How

00:07:36   am I ever going to find download?" Because if you Google for download podcast, you're

00:07:39   going to get literally how to download a podcast. And the answer is, one, we thought of this,

00:07:46   And two, people don't Google just the name of a podcast, really. They put it into their

00:07:50   podcast player. And I would wager that if you search in most podcast players, even for

00:07:56   just the word "download," you'll probably find it because there aren't, I think there

00:08:01   is not a podcast that we could find that's just called a "download." So it should be

00:08:06   in there. It was, when I did a search in Overcast the day after we launched it, it was the number

00:08:11   one result. So I think that people can, that was our idea was that it's actually a really

00:08:18   bad name if you're trying to do something that has to be done via a Google search, but

00:08:22   I just don't think that's, thinking in the podcast context, I think it's actually a clever

00:08:28   name and it's like upgrade and then there's download and Relay has all these one word

00:08:32   names.

00:08:33   Yes, the fact that you as a listener found the show upgrade means you can probably find

00:08:38   the show download.

00:08:39   I think that's a fair point, very fair point, right?

00:08:42   Right.

00:08:43   That it's just, these are, these are our simple words that it's going to be hard to find.

00:08:47   If you are just doing a broad search, but in a, in your podcast app of choice, not a

00:08:52   problem.

00:08:53   Another part of this premise is that it's the tech stories that are most interesting

00:08:57   of the week.

00:08:58   And it's meant to be a little opinionated.

00:09:00   One of the places where my and Steven's sensibility comes in to the show is the stories we pick.

00:09:05   trying to pick interesting stories from a variety of different angles that we think

00:09:09   have some depth to them that go beyond just "here's a computer that was announced."

00:09:14   I mean that'll happen from time to time, but like the Amazon Echo look, we ended up

00:09:21   talking about Amazon's ambitions for retail and fashion, and also we talked about personalization

00:09:28   and things like that. So it allows us to pick kind of interesting topics. It's not going

00:09:32   to be 15 topics a week. And also, I think we're shooting for like between an hour and

00:09:39   ninety minutes for the show, so we don't want it to be like a very long show, it's not super

00:09:45   constrained like Clockwise either, we're trying to find a happy medium there, but it is opinionated

00:09:49   in the sense that we're picking some topics that we think are going to be really interesting

00:09:53   and varied every week, and that's part of what Steven and I are doing when we put the

00:09:57   show together. We're watching all the headlines all week long and putting links together and

00:10:01   then kind of debating what we want the show's main topics to actually be when we get toward

00:10:06   recording time.

00:10:07   Cool. So people can go get it now, read it at fm/download and they can tune in and I

00:10:14   bet people will enjoy it. But we do have some more traditional follow-up, copyright John

00:10:19   Siracusa. Ryan sent us a link that already 9to5Mac were reporting that I think Bloomberg

00:10:28   had found the first images of somebody finding the self-driving Lexus.

00:10:34   Yeah, we were just talking about this, and here it is, which is with the Apple Car stuff.

00:10:41   I think I said it's only a matter of time before the first shot of a Lexus with stuff

00:10:49   on it is revealed, and here it is.

00:10:53   Yeah, it was like a day or two later.

00:10:54   Yep, there you go. They found it and I think it's very highly expected to be the car that Apple is using because it's like completely

00:11:02   Unbranded has a bunch of tech on it that's expected and is the exact model of Lexus. So there you go

00:11:08   It's there if you want to see what it looks like. It doesn't look very exciting

00:11:11   No, it's it's a Lexus with with bits on it like with just like tech bits tech bits. Yep

00:11:19   That's what they call it

00:11:21   listed as such. Just add the tech bits in the car and drive it.

00:11:24   - Well, it's got a little silver ball here and a little camera pod there. And it's just,

00:11:29   you know, it's a, that's what it is. So I hope everybody's excited that we've seen the

00:11:37   - Tech bits.

00:11:38   - We've seen Apple cars in the wild in this completely irrelevant test form. I did want

00:11:45   to say we were talking about apple car stuff. The Tesla Show podcast was recommended to

00:11:52   us by a couple of different people because they did an episode there, episode number

00:11:56   53, which was called the Apple Car. And it's all about going into great detail about what

00:12:05   would Apple's car strategy be. And I thought it was really good. I having never heard this

00:12:10   podcast before. I thought the guys were very interesting with their analysis. I liked it

00:12:18   a lot, and the thing that they did that I had never really considered in detail before

00:12:23   that they made me think is a serious possibility is that the end game of Apple's car strategy

00:12:28   is not to sell a car to anybody, but to create a car service where you call for a car and

00:12:38   it comes and gets you and takes you where you want to go. And then they don't need a

00:12:43   dealer network or anything. They go straight after, essentially if you can imagine what

00:12:50   Uber would be if they replace, well if, when they replace all of their pesky drivers with

00:12:57   computers, which is I'm sure their goal, right, they've said as much, imagining a world where

00:13:04   don't have to have a even own a car they're just a member of their the

00:13:08   service and they call for a self-driving car and it comes in and picks them up

00:13:12   and takes them where they want to go and that seems kind of wild but if you think

00:13:16   about it you can roll that out in in different cities in different markets

00:13:20   and and given how many people live in urban areas you could cover a pretty

00:13:25   large portion of a population just by serving urban and suburban areas really

00:13:31   interesting argument I think it has a lot of strength to it in the sense that

00:13:34   it gets Apple out of the business of sort of selling people a car and supporting them

00:13:41   and fixing their cars when they're in warranty and things like that and instead makes it

00:13:45   more about how Apple's the owner of all those cars and all you do is sign up for the service

00:13:51   and ask for a car when you need it. It's a couple levels further back in terms of sort

00:13:58   of conceptualizing where the transportation, personal transportation world is going, but

00:14:04   that sounds very Apple to me too.

00:14:05   I mean, and it lines up with that investment they made in the Chinese car hailing service,

00:14:10   which I think is called DD Chuxing.

00:14:12   Yeah, I had that exact thought. They didn t mention that in the Tesla show episode,

00:14:17   but that was my thought too, was it shows Apple gaining some expertise by being a partner

00:14:24   with DD is that they're thinking of car service as a concept, not necessarily like I'm going

00:14:33   to -- right, because if you believe, and this is an open question, but if you believe that

00:14:38   in the long run if you have self-driving cars, and most cars, as people pointed out, most

00:14:42   cars spend -- well, every car spends most of its time unused, right? Unless you're a

00:14:50   a cab, your car sits in a driveway or a parking lot for most of the time. It's only driving

00:14:55   for a small fraction of time. So if you look at that and you think that in the long run

00:15:01   it would be way more efficient for cars to be in operation all the time and you've got

00:15:06   self-driving technology, then for most cases you'd be better off not owning a car and being

00:15:13   a member of a car network as long as they can provide you a car when you need it, either

00:15:17   on demand or by a schedule and get you where you need to go, that actually would be a far

00:15:23   more efficient use of the technology and of space in cities to have the cars moving instead

00:15:30   of parked. Now, not saying that that's absolutely going to happen, but it's certainly a possible

00:15:36   future for transportation. And if that's the case, then that potentially simplifies a lot

00:15:44   of what Apple would have to shoot for, and if you're Apple, do you want to shoot for,

00:15:48   if you believe that that's going to happen in 10 or 15 years, would you do all the work

00:15:54   required to sell cars to people now, knowing that in 5 or 10 or 15 years, you're going

00:15:59   to stop? Now obviously Tesla's doing that, Tesla has to do that right now, but maybe

00:16:04   Apple wouldn't have to do that if they're 5 years out for something like this and they're

00:16:08   just rolling it out in certain markets. I don't know, it's a wild idea but I was intrigued

00:16:15   by it. I think it's an interesting concept and they cover that in some detail in that

00:16:20   podcast so it's worth a listen.

00:16:23   All right, yeah, I don't know if I would have come to that conclusion on my own for quite

00:16:28   some time if at all but that definitely makes way more sense than building a car or even

00:16:36   making a CarPlay Plus type thing.

00:16:38   Yeah, and I think that Google, I mean, I think this is what Google is thinking too. I think

00:16:42   it's a very similar thing to what Google is thinking, which is in the long run or, you

00:16:45   know, alphabet, in that in the long run, you know, transportation becomes more of a service.

00:16:51   And I know that this is what Uber is thinking. Like, Uber absolutely thinks that the future

00:16:57   of Uber is self-driving cars that come when you call. And, and are they, are they wrong

00:17:03   about that? I don't know. I mean, there are always going to be exceptions, right? If you're

00:17:07   in a rural area, you know, you're not going to be able to do that. There are always going

00:17:11   to be people who have to have, even in a world like this, if we accept that this will happen,

00:17:16   there are going to be exceptions. People who have to have their own car because their roads

00:17:23   aren't covered. But, and here's the other part of this that I thought was interesting,

00:17:29   is all of those Apple Maps cars, they talk about this a little bit in the podcast, all

00:17:33   those Apple Maps cars that everybody got excited about but then they thought were Apple self-driving

00:17:37   cars but they're not, they're just Apple Maps cars with all these sensors on them. What

00:17:41   they point out in this podcast is something that again I hadn't really thought about and

00:17:47   I'm kicking myself now which is, well yeah, they say they're Apple Maps cars but what

00:17:52   they're probably is enhanced Apple mapping cars that are getting lots of detail because

00:18:00   for the Apple self-driving car, they need way more detail for their maps, right? So,

00:18:07   you know, Apple's mapping cars that are out there mapping roads are not necessarily just

00:18:13   improving the data of Apple Maps, but they're also building a data set that is much richer

00:18:19   to use with a self-driving system, which makes sense, right? It makes sense. So, anyway,

00:18:26   interesting and maybe enough of a leap to help us make sense of what the end game here

00:18:34   looks like which I have had trouble seeing ever since this Apple Car story came out.

00:18:40   There you go. So go check that show even. I guess they give a lot more color than what

00:18:49   we've spoken about here and it sounds like that they're kind of more exposed in this

00:18:52   than we are. Yeah, it's also funny because it's a podcast

00:18:55   theoretically about Tesla and yet that episode is just about Apple. It's not about Tesla

00:19:00   at all. So it's interesting to get it from that perspective too of people who are enthusiastic

00:19:06   about Tesla and…

00:19:08   David: The future of cars really.

00:19:10   Tim: Yeah, but they're exactly right. But they're taking a break a little bit to talk

00:19:13   about some other potential futures.

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00:20:32   Thank you so much to Encapsular for their support of this show and Relay FM.

00:20:37   Recode this week had a report that apparently Apple is looking to create a peer to peer

00:20:42   money transfer service and that they've been holding talks with payment processors about

00:20:48   creating something like Venmo. Venmo is like a peer-to-peer money transferring thing.

00:20:52   Yeah. I send you five dollars, you know, it's the, uh, Lex Friedman made me sign up for

00:20:58   that. We, when I was visiting him, I forget even what the context was, maybe we were like

00:21:04   splitting our lunch order or something and he was like, oh, just Venmo it to me. And

00:21:08   I'm like, buh-buh, huh? But you know, but it is literally like, oh yeah, here's that

00:21:14   $10 for fantasy football or whatever and you just send money to your friends.

00:21:19   Now obviously this is an add-on to Apple Pay, right? That's how Apple will be doing this.

00:21:25   You would, you know, you would open the Apple Pay app which probably would exist then and

00:21:29   you just say or you go to like your contacts or something and you like just send or even

00:21:33   probably be an iMessage. You know what? It's probably be an iMessage is where it would

00:21:35   be. Probably. And you would say send this contact $5 and you hold your thumb or your

00:21:41   finger over the touch ID and it would go. The idea is Apple will try and launch something

00:21:46   like this this year hopefully and that's one part of this story. They're trying to do this,

00:21:52   this is something that they would work with companies like Visa and Mastercard, like the

00:21:55   payment processors and the banks and it would be good to go. Everyone's going to continue

00:21:59   to get what they get right now, like when somebody uses Apple Pay, pretty much everyone's

00:22:03   happy here. The banks continue to do what they do, the car processors get what they

00:22:08   get. However, this report also says that they are in talks with Visa to create an Apple

00:22:14   branded prepaid card so people could use this transfer of money instantly. So you would

00:22:20   have a card in your wallet that Apple would give you and then you would be able to pay

00:22:25   for things with the money that somebody has sent you.

00:22:29   Right, because the idea here is if you receive, if somebody sends you $10, if you don't, where

00:22:35   does that money go? If you're not hooked up to your bank, if you haven't given Apple your

00:22:40   bank account information or something like that, where does that money go? And it sounds

00:22:44   like the answer is it goes in a prepaid card. Essentially it is a little mini temporary

00:22:52   digital wallet containing the money that people have sent you and you can use that to pay

00:22:57   for things.

00:22:58   Yes, and depending on where you live in the world, it may take time to get the money back.

00:23:02   If you live in the United Kingdom, I would be able to withdraw that money instantly because

00:23:07   we have a payment system between banks that has basically instant transfer.

00:23:13   But from this report, it seems like that does not exist in the United States of America

00:23:16   and it would take multiple days probably before you would see that money if you wanted to

00:23:21   withdraw it to your bank account.

00:23:22   So Apple would then create a prepaid card.

00:23:25   Now I think, personally, that this rumor has been misunderstood.

00:23:31   And what Apple wants to make here is an Apple Pay only card.

00:23:36   I don't think Apple wants to distribute plastic cards to people.

00:23:42   I think that they are working with Visa on prepaid card technology in which there is

00:23:48   no card, you just have it in Apple Pay.

00:23:52   This report talks about a plastic card but I think they've misunderstood that.

00:23:57   Yeah, I think the logic here is that you create a virtual credit card.

00:24:03   Like we've been talking about for three or four weeks.

00:24:05   Exactly.

00:24:06   Well, that's why this is follow-up, right?

00:24:07   Yep, exactly.

00:24:08   It's a virtual credit card, and even that is a—we can't even call it a credit card,

00:24:13   right, because it's a debit card.

00:24:14   The idea is that the money's already there.

00:24:16   But we have a card system with instantaneous transfers of cash.

00:24:22   This is the way to do this, is using the credit card system.

00:24:25   And so rather than having an Apple Venmo-like thing where in order to sign up you have to

00:24:30   put in things with your bank account number and connect it up to your bank and have it

00:24:36   move over time from point A to point B and all this ridiculous stuff, the solution is

00:24:42   use the credit card system.

00:24:43   Well, how do we do that?

00:24:44   We will create a digital card that we will be able to put money on, and then they only

00:24:51   have to deal with Visa.

00:24:52   they don't have to deal with everybody's individual banks because it's just for

00:24:56   that. It's like, the way I was thinking of it is, it's like an Amazon balance. You

00:25:01   know, if you've got, if you've ever had somebody send you an Amazon gift card or

00:25:04   something like that, or even an iTunes balance on an iTunes card, you end up

00:25:07   with this money and it's sitting there on your account. And where is it? It's

00:25:12   kind of nowhere. But, you know, when you pay for things, it's the money that

00:25:15   comes off first. And that's not as convenient in the sense that, you know,

00:25:21   So it's, can you transfer it out?

00:25:25   Can you do that?

00:25:26   Can you take that money now?

00:25:27   If my friend has sent me $10, but they've used Apple Pay,

00:25:30   does that mean I have to just spend it on my virtual card

00:25:33   or can I transfer it back to my bank or something like that?

00:25:35   And I don't know, they probably work it out,

00:25:38   but it wouldn't be instantaneous.

00:25:39   But my guess is that you would be able to just also

00:25:42   just kind of keep it there as a balance,

00:25:44   like an account balance and use that

00:25:46   with your Apple Pay account.

00:25:48   And therefore it's just a digital,

00:25:50   it's a little digital storehouse for this equivalent of cash that's sitting there.

00:25:56   At which point, I'm not sure the banks would be too bent out of shape over it, given that

00:25:59   the bank infrastructure just kind of doesn't support this right now.

00:26:03   - The banks would be upset about this. This is part of the problem.

00:26:07   - Oh, here comes Banking Myke. Banking Myke is gonna tell me. Well, I mean, they're gonna

00:26:11   be upset in the sense that it's Apple and Visa walking away with their customers, but

00:26:16   what's the alternative?

00:26:18   Well, I mean, what you said about it doesn't matter if there's an alternative. They will

00:26:23   be upset because Apple will be walking away with their customers because what this does

00:26:26   is cuts them out. And there is some disruption happening in the banking industry right now,

00:26:32   especially in the UK by a term called "challenger banks". And so these are new banks or new

00:26:40   ways of banking that are popping up. And I have signed up recently for something called

00:26:43   Monzo currently works a lot like this. You get a physical card, they don't work with

00:26:49   Apple Pay yet, you get it because they're not a bank. Apple would be doing some funky

00:26:54   stuff with Visa to get this to work. But you get a physical card and you top it up in Monzo's

00:27:00   app using Apple Pay and then you can spend on this card. The app is amazing and it does

00:27:06   stuff that no other banking app that I've used has ever done. Every purchase you make,

00:27:11   push notification it tells you how much it was. It's fantastic for traveling because

00:27:14   you buy something in a foreign currency and you get a push notification that tells you

00:27:17   how much it actually was in your local currency. Everything is categorized in the app, you

00:27:21   can see things by spending. It's great, you should try it if you live in the UK you should

00:27:25   try it. Now this would be what Apple is looking to build here. Now what happens with this

00:27:30   is the banks lose their customers potentially and they lose the money. So they don't see

00:27:36   any of the money, so they don't make money from the money which is how banks make a lot

00:27:39   money from just interest and doing whatever it is that they do and then when money is

00:27:44   in the banking system people can lend against it etc etc I'm going way too far into the

00:27:48   stack now I apologize but this is...

00:27:50   So they make money from the money is what you're telling me?

00:27:53   Yeah yeah yes.

00:27:55   Interesting what a what a what a genius scheme this is.

00:27:59   It's funny funny and then basically one of the things that the Recode account Recode

00:28:05   story goes into which is something that I used to hear all the time is that banks like

00:28:11   to be what is called in the industry "front of wallet" which basically means the card

00:28:15   that you have, the bank, is the one that people use first and Apple and the banks work hard

00:28:22   together to make sure that this type of thing is maintained, right? So you have an actual

00:28:26   wallet where you see your card in it, right?

00:28:29   And when I double tap on my Apple Watch or my iPhone, the first card that comes up is

00:28:34   my Chase Sapphire, right? And that is front of wallet.

00:28:38   - And you can pretty much guarantee that will change, right? When you have your Apple Pay

00:28:43   card account. - Little mad money card here. Well, yeah.

00:28:46   Yeah, no, I see it. I think the question is if you're Apple and you're trying to launch

00:28:50   this sort of a person-to-person transfer service, the, and again, it won't stop the banks from

00:28:57   being angry, but it's sort of like, what are your options? What are your options here to

00:29:03   make it something that's fairly frictionless. Now it's possible that Apple is using this

00:29:10   as a prod to the banks to maybe there's some other situation, some other solution that

00:29:16   the banks have that could do this but that they're reluctant to implement. Like something

00:29:23   that would let you do that. Because wouldn't it be nice if you could just say, if somebody

00:29:27   sends me money just put it on my, you know, basically send it to my card essentially,

00:29:33   right? Like send it to my credit card account and credit it and do something like that.

00:29:38   But you know, this is the challenge. So I see like Apple's trying for expediency here

00:29:43   to get something in the market, but it goes right against their bank partners and the

00:29:47   banks are partners of Apple with Apple Pay. You can't just tell the banks to go away.

00:29:53   They are key partners in the whole Apple Pay scheme.

00:29:58   This would be a tricky thing for them because it would upset the banks and as you say, upsetting

00:30:03   the banks is bad for Apple because if Apple want to, you know, Apple has seen what happens

00:30:09   when they upset their partners in neighboring industries.

00:30:13   You know, look at the issues that I'm sure they're having trying to launch a TV service.

00:30:18   All of the issues that they had trying to launch a music service because they upset

00:30:23   their partners in the music industry, right, by taking their industry away from them. And

00:30:31   this would be something that Apple's customers would really like, but Apple's partners who

00:30:35   are important to them may not like it so much. And this would be tricky. I mean, the peer-to-peer

00:30:41   payment system, that works. But cutting them out by putting it into Apple Pay, whilst that

00:30:47   would be brilliant would be tricky. It would be tricky for them to maneuver their way through

00:30:54   that, I think. I hope they do it though, because I would like it.

00:30:58   Well, this is, I think, one of the most fascinating places of where Apple is playing right now.

00:31:06   Not banking in general, but thinking of it more broadly. There's Apple trying to drive

00:31:11   forward with things that they think people are interested in, ways people can use technology

00:31:17   to benefit them. But it comes up against partners that Apple needs. Apple can't just build a

00:31:24   thing. They have to build a thing and get the partners on board. And like the TV industry

00:31:30   is reluctant to do that. Banking was not reluctant or was somewhat reluctant with Apple Pay,

00:31:35   but they got them on board. This is a case where Apple's sheer will cannot make this

00:31:39   right? It has to be more and I think that's really frustrating for Apple.

00:31:44   It's got to be because Apple is used to being able to just make something and

00:31:48   everybody else, it doesn't matter if everybody else says, "No, that's a bad idea.

00:31:51   We think you're doomed." Forget it. That Apple can just defy them and do it

00:31:57   anyway and be proven right. But in a lot of these other areas, Apple can't do that.

00:32:02   They can't play that game because they need to get people on board with their

00:32:06   vision in order to make a product a reality. And that's hard because it goes, you know,

00:32:11   because some of Apple's ideas, quite frankly, do go against conventional wisdom and it's

00:32:15   hard to get people on board with it. I mean, you could argue that the iPhone would have

00:32:19   had a very hard time, as revolutionary as that product ended up being, but you know,

00:32:25   they got singular wireless, which became AT&T by the time the phone shipped, to be on board

00:32:32   with the iPhone as we currently conceive of it, without junk on it, with Apple kind of

00:32:36   controlling the customer relationship. And when that deal was announced, I mean, there

00:32:42   were a lot of people in that industry who thought that Singular was taken for a ride

00:32:46   by Steve Jobs. And yet they were fortunate that they had that partner and they made that

00:32:54   deal and it had to be an exclusive in order to do it, but they did that deal. Because

00:32:59   this is the thing, you can have the greatest most innovative idea in the world if you're

00:33:02   Apple and if you can't get the people who need to say yes to say yes to it, it just

00:33:06   won't happen. So this is an interesting way Apple has to kind of like navigate here, where

00:33:13   they don't want to anger the banks but they also want to provide more functionality and

00:33:18   compete in some of these other areas.

00:33:20   Yeah, it's like, you know, when Apple wanted to create a Maps app, it's like, okay, all

00:33:26   doing is fighting against Google. There are just two people in their industry, they don't

00:33:31   need each other anymore. It's not a problem, right? You can burn that bridge and just carry

00:33:36   on going and that will be fine. But as you said, when they need someone for something,

00:33:42   like when the banks say, "Screw it. We're going to pull Apple Pay." That is a big problem

00:33:48   for Apple.

00:33:49   Yeah, this is Joe Steele, our buddy in the chat room pointed out that one of the places,

00:33:54   Dan Morin has written about it on Six Colors a few times, the, um, that in, at a

00:33:59   farmer's market or an art fair or something like that, the idea that instead

00:34:02   like Apple pay are all our devices at Apple pay on them. But you know, you have

00:34:08   to have a square reader when you're doing a transfer like that, because they can't

00:34:12   accept money. They can only pay money and it doesn't, it doesn't really follow.

00:34:15   Right. You should be able to, to put in like the price of something and like tap

00:34:23   your Apple Pay on their Apple Pay, right? You should be able to just go, "boop, here,

00:34:29   here's some money," without having cash. And that's the problem Apple's trying to solve

00:34:34   here. But I see the bank's point too, that that's scary, right? Because then you don't

00:34:41   need a credit card anymore, theoretically. You can just, everything is digital cash now,

00:34:46   and they're out of the equation. At least they're out of the equation until you decide

00:34:51   to transfer some of your extra digital cash back into your bank account, but that's not

00:34:54   quite the same.

00:34:55   Yeah, if you use Apple Pay all the time, that just becomes your Apple Pay credits, you know,

00:35:00   and you just use those credits.

00:35:01   Well, it becomes your wallet. It's cash in your wallet, except digital, but it's the

00:35:05   same thing. It's like if you live a life where you're doing a lot of stuff with cash and

00:35:09   people are giving you cash and you're spending cash, then, you know, that's invisible to

00:35:13   your bank because it's just the cash that's in your wallet until you deposit some of it

00:35:17   if you're somebody who has so much cash that you end up depositing in your bank account.

00:35:21   And if the bank's business model is based on cycling that cash through the credit card

00:35:25   system then that's not so great.

00:35:29   Let me tell you what I would love to see with something like this. The ability to do international

00:35:36   transfers more easily. Being able to then cut out PayPal.

00:35:42   Well, yeah. Wouldn't that be nice?

00:35:45   whilst PayPal is the most convenient way that I've found to send money overseas,

00:35:51   their fees, oh my god, they're so bad, their fees are so high and you know for

00:35:58   someone like me they'll cut me on the transfer fee and then also cut me on the

00:36:03   on the foreign exchange fee. Yep. Because I know what they're doing right like I

00:36:08   know where it works and I feel like Apple's still gonna hit me but they're

00:36:12   going to hit me less I think than PayPal would. And yeah there are a bunch of other ways to

00:36:17   do it, a lot of them take far too long, you know, and I know how the banking industry

00:36:22   works and don't sometimes want my money tied up in these really antiquated money transfer

00:36:26   systems between international banks and I also find that so many of the other services

00:36:36   are a little less reliable, you know, at least while PayPal are expensive I know that they're

00:36:40   likely not going to go away in between the time that the money sent and received. So

00:36:45   I would love to see Apple try and hit that, that would be a great thing for me. It would

00:36:53   also just be easy as a way for me to pay you back for a meal, which there kind of isn't

00:36:57   a good way to do that right now without everybody losing out something. So Apple, find a way

00:37:04   to do the peer to peer thing but tread carefully on the prepaid card thing. I don't know if

00:37:10   that

00:37:32   If for any reason you don't like it, just keep it and they'll refund you no questions

00:37:36   asked.

00:37:37   Why are MacWarden so confident that they will offer this no questions asked return policy?

00:37:42   It is because they know that by pairing premium fabrics with meticulous attention to detail

00:37:48   and combining it with their simple shopping experience that they deliver a new level of

00:37:52   daily comfort direct to you.

00:37:53   They make undershirts that stay tucked, socks that stay up and waistbands that don't roll.

00:37:58   they make is made of premium cotton blended with natural fibers and their website is built

00:38:03   to get you in and out as quickly as possible. They are not interested in wasting your time.

00:38:07   I have been taking a lot of flights recently. Jason Snow can you imagine, can you somehow

00:38:12   conceive of what I was wearing on the flights?

00:38:15   Uh, do you know that I can because I ordered a pair and I have taken receipt of them now.

00:38:23   Oh, the sweatpants?

00:38:24   Yeah.

00:38:25   The ace, the ace right? They're called the ace sweatpants?

00:38:27   They're great, aren't they?

00:38:29   They're like, I got mine this week, I haven't worn them yet, but looking at them, it's great

00:38:37   because I love shorts, I like wearing shorts, but shorts are only appropriate during times

00:38:43   of shorts related weather.

00:38:46   Those ace sweatpants, they're like long shorts.

00:38:50   They're great.

00:38:51   They look great.

00:38:52   I'm very excited by them.

00:38:53   They do also make those in shorts, the ace.

00:38:55   Yeah, well, they're just shorts then. I mean, of course they do. But anyway, I, my thought

00:39:01   process is you were raving about them and then also the idea that the, you know, I work

00:39:08   at home and if it's a cooler kind of day, I, at some point, the pajama, wearing flannel

00:39:16   pajamas around the house makes me feel like I am even more of a stereotypical person who

00:39:21   works at home like I'm in my pajamas all day and I like to feel like some progression that

00:39:26   I'm more advanced so that's what pants are going to give me. I can wear those and then

00:39:32   I feel a little bit more together than if I'm just wearing pajamas. So thanks Myke.

00:39:38   Anytime anything for you. Mac weldon do amazing stuff. Go to macweldon.com and you'll get

00:39:46   20% off when you use the code upgrade. They're good for working out, going to work, traveling,

00:39:51   everyday life, Macworld and stuff is awesome. Macworld and calm the code upgrade to get

00:39:55   20% off. Thank you so much to Macworld and for their support of this show and relay FM.

00:40:00   Maybe I should call them longs longs long shorts or would just be longs right? Yeah,

00:40:06   I guess so. Or like averages regulars. I'm not sure maybe I don't know. All right, so

00:40:14   okay we accidentally walked into a topic that for some reason I still care about more than

00:40:18   I should, which is the way that banks work. I mean, you know, 10 years I worked for a

00:40:23   financial institution, like I can't help myself.

00:40:26   Absolutely.

00:40:27   Now we're going to talk about something else that I really love, which we have been wanting

00:40:30   to talk about for ages. Today's the day. Stickers. Let's talk about stickers.

00:40:35   Let's do it.

00:40:37   Do you have any questions for me about stickers, Jason Snell?

00:40:41   Why?

00:40:42   Why?

00:40:43   Why?

00:40:44   I wish I could tell you why it began. So in case you don't know dear listener, I

00:40:51   cover my Apple devices primarily, my iPads and my MacBook in stickers. I'm not

00:41:00   the only person that does this, like this is a thing. You see this a lot right?

00:41:03   People put stickers on their computers but I have become known for it because I

00:41:08   I don't like to just put stickers on, I like to cover my devices in stickers.

00:41:17   And I know I began with this with what you have stuck on your laptop, which is I covered

00:41:27   an Apple logo on a laptop with the rainbow logo.

00:41:33   I have that on my MacBook Air and on my iPad Pro now, actually. I have a little decal that's

00:41:40   exactly the size of the Apple logo on the device and I covered it with the rainbow Apple

00:41:47   logo.

00:41:48   Yeah, and I don't have a specific place to recommend for these, just Etsy. You just look

00:41:53   for one Etsy. And I remember like a while ago when the iPad Pro, the 12.9 came out,

00:41:59   there wasn't anything that fit it because it was a different size. And there was just

00:42:02   one Etsy person and I just contacted them with a message like can you make

00:42:06   one for this like sure and then they just sent it to me. I got mine from from a

00:42:10   company called Super Together that sells on Etsy and they they have a they had an

00:42:14   iPad Pro 12.9 decal that fit perfectly. For all I know that was the person that

00:42:20   I got it from. Could be. Oh it actually was because I remember this logo just an S

00:42:25   yeah this was. And it's and it's there the UK based yeah. So I'll put that in

00:42:29   the show knows if you want to find it and and this was just like a beginning

00:42:33   for me and then it was just over time as I was doing shows and having stickers

00:42:38   made I kind of wanted a place to put them and a place that made sense to me

00:42:42   was to put them on my laptop and then it just went from there now I have an

00:42:47   entire drawer in my office full of stickers I try and get new and

00:42:53   interesting stickers all the time and I like to do this because it feels like

00:42:58   like some kind of personalisation for me. Like I feel like what I'm doing is making

00:43:05   these devices mine and the things that I tend to stick on to my devices are things that

00:43:12   I enjoy. Like it is an expression of stuff that I like and then when I look at these

00:43:18   devices I every time you know it's like art for me in a way like I just look at them and

00:43:23   I appreciate it right like these are things that I enjoy they're things I find funny or

00:43:27   things that I like the look of or stuff that I have made. Like I make lots of stickers

00:43:32   for shows and like just little jokes, you know, like anybody that came to the upgrade

00:43:37   meetup may have walked away with an upgrade in sticker or a pineapple pizza sticker and

00:43:42   I have those stuck on all my devices now. It's just a thing that I really like and I

00:43:47   kind of treat every new device that I get, these big devices, as like a blank canvas

00:43:51   and it builds over time and I overlap. Or like I'm a sticker overlapper. I'm definitely

00:43:56   not one of these people that places things in a line. I like it to be all higgledy-piggledy

00:44:02   because I like that however you hold the device you kind of get something. It's always in

00:44:08   the right orientation. And my favourite thing to do is to over time try and fill as much

00:44:13   of the device as I can. Now of course this destroys resale value unless you're willing

00:44:18   to get all the stickers off. I haven't yet had to resale a device that has stickers on

00:44:25   them, they usually just get passed down or passed around. The only thing that I have

00:44:30   is I have a 13-inch MacBook Pro that I eventually want to get rid of but it's covered in stickers

00:44:36   right now. I don't know what I'm going to do with it. I just haven't gotten around to

00:44:40   getting rid of it but I have a family member I could probably give it to.

00:44:43   Yeah, well, so I've got two questions here. One is, well, not a question. I think you

00:44:50   can, especially since these are metal shells, I think you can peel them off.

00:44:56   -Yeah, with some elbow grease I could get it off. -With some elbow grease and also there's

00:45:00   stuff you can buy that is, that that's what it does is it takes the sticker adhesive off,

00:45:08   some like that you spray on or put on a rag and that helps kind of melt the sticker adhesive.

00:45:14   So you could do it, it just takes some work. But how do your friends or family who receive

00:45:19   these hand-me-down items. How do they feel about the fact that they're getting a thing

00:45:23   that's covered in stickers?

00:45:24   Well, you know, they kind of can't complain if it's hand-me-down, right? There's a

00:45:29   new device for you, that's on you, right? You know, you're not giving me any money

00:45:33   for this because the things that I hand down or hand around to family for money are phones

00:45:39   and I don't put stickers on phones because I put cases on my phone. So plus the phone

00:45:42   is such a small space. I don't put stickers on there. I don't feel like there's enough

00:45:48   that I can do. I really like the covered in stickers look and the phone doesn't provide

00:45:53   me with that. So you know my iPads nobody has gotten one of those yet because Apple

00:45:59   refuses to update them and I just haven't done anything with my MacBook Pro yet and

00:46:05   I don't know if I have a family member that needs a MacBook Pro but I'm gonna ask around

00:46:09   soon because it's kind of just been sitting here and if they want to keep it this way

00:46:12   they can keep it this way otherwise they can do the work you know that's up to them.

00:46:17   I love, I do really like getting a new device and starting over.

00:46:22   I don't immediately cover them, although I have got a much larger sticker store now than

00:46:28   I ever have before so I can do quite a lot.

00:46:31   The most awkward part is the in between stage, just when you've got a couple, more than 3

00:46:37   or 4 and less than 15 stickers on the surface, because you've got lots of gaps and you kind

00:46:42   of have to be smart about the way that things get placed.

00:46:46   I'm ready for my next device Jason because I have been amassing quite a selection of

00:46:53   stickers over the last few months via the means of a few services. I currently subscribe

00:47:00   to two monthly sticker subscription services. I need to decide on one of them and I just

00:47:08   haven't decided on which one yet. I've been trying these both out because they kind of

00:47:11   both launched around the same time and I wanted to see what I would get. One of them is a

00:47:16   is called slap to stick. I'll put links in the show notes for these. And this one, they

00:47:20   kind of, um, they wouldn't that be slaptastic? Mm. It would definitely be that I've never

00:47:27   thought of it that way. So that out loud slap to stick was always my way of reading this,

00:47:33   but it definitely is pronounced in English, uh, British English. No, no, it should definitely

00:47:40   be slaptastic. I've just never, you know, when you don't read things aloud and like,

00:47:45   you know, and they're just in your head in a certain way. But yeah, Slaptastic is definitely

00:47:49   what they're called. And they seem to like commission stickers, like they'll find some

00:47:55   artists and they commission them around a theme. And then another one that I use called

00:47:58   Sticker Swaps is way more of like a random selection of stuff. This is probably the one

00:48:04   that I would end up dropping, but you get like really interesting random things with

00:48:09   them. And I don't know where their stuff comes from, but it feels like that they might be

00:48:13   like buying them in bulk from somewhere or like picking up stuff that's not used and

00:48:18   also like you can you can trade stickers with them and it's kind of an interesting thing

00:48:24   and you get like you get a lot you get a lot more with this company because they have the

00:48:29   stickers that they're creating or collecting for the month and plus just some really random

00:48:33   stuff like I got this tiny little spider-man sticker that was all like shiny you know like

00:48:39   a holographic sticker which would come from like obviously a sticker book at some point

00:48:42   very strange but I like that little sticker it was funny. And then another one that I use,

00:48:46   Sticker Mule. Now I use Sticker Mule, we use Sticker Mule to print the stickers that we sell

00:48:51   or that we give away. They're fantastic. Sticker Mule can do anything, right? From like just

00:48:58   squares and circles to die cutting, they're brilliant. So if you're ever making stickers

00:49:02   for anything I thoroughly recommend Sticker Mule. They're very high quality vinyl stickers

00:49:07   but they also have a marketplace so you can go in and just buy individual stickers from them.

00:49:12   Some of them are pretty fairly priced and some of them are not so much but they tend to be bigger

00:49:18   but you can just go in just have a scroll through and you'll find some stuff in there and I kind of

00:49:24   bought a bunch of stickers from there before which I like. So that is how I have amassed a huge draw

00:49:30   of stickers which is currently existing awaiting a new device to affix them to.

00:49:36   So that's interesting. So you've reached, you feel like you've reached your saturation point on your

00:49:41   existing devices where you don't want to continue the pile up? Oh no, what I do now is, um,

00:49:46   when I get new stickers, if something, if something works, uh, then I will add to my current devices.

00:49:56   But at the point that I am right now, I feel like, well, I have felt like they have been close to

00:50:01   replacement for a long time, but that's just not been happening. So I haven't been adding new stuff

00:50:06   stuff because when I get a really good sticker now, I want to keep it for the next device,

00:50:10   right? So I get something like, "Oh, this is a good one. Like, I don't want to put it

00:50:13   on something that might be gone soon."

00:50:14   Right, so you want to stock those stickers for your next purchase because you want the

00:50:20   stickers to have more time in the sun.

00:50:22   Exactly. I want to be able to enjoy them for a longer period of time.

00:50:26   Now when you get a new device, will you immediately put on a bunch of stickers or will you roll

00:50:30   them out slowly over time?

00:50:32   In the past, I've rolled it more slowly.

00:50:35   Now I have this huge box, effectively, of stickers.

00:50:38   I will be adding more for my next device

00:50:41   because I've been collecting more

00:50:43   and been waiting for longer.

00:50:44   But I won't cover it because I wanna leave space

00:50:47   for new stuff that comes in.

00:50:48   - It's fascinating.

00:50:51   - Now, lots of people, when I talk about this,

00:50:54   they feel a sense of abject horror.

00:50:58   - Yeah. - I would dare,

00:51:01   dare to cover the beautiful Johnny Ive work in stickers.

00:51:06   I have had people, Jason, who get very angry with me,

00:51:10   and I know those people have already started to write to me

00:51:14   to express their anger. - Yeah, email mic.

00:51:17   - But a few years ago, Apple vindicated me

00:51:19   by releasing an ad for the MacBook,

00:51:24   which featured stickers all over it.

00:51:26   - Stickers, yeah.

00:51:27   - Which was a great feeling,

00:51:28   because now I have something to send to these people when they write to me. It's like,

00:51:33   well Apple, this is approved via Apple, right? But are you someone that has this abject horror

00:51:42   at the amount of stickers that you see? Because you've seen my devices, right?

00:51:46   Yeah. Yeah, I don't have abject horror. I think people should do what makes them feel

00:51:52   happy on their devices. I am somebody, it's not for me. I have some practical issues with

00:52:00   it, but also it's just not for me. The way that I always have phrased this is I prefer

00:52:07   to be unadorned, right? I don't have any tattoos, similar reason, believe it or not. It's like,

00:52:16   know, there's a limit. Like, I kind of like things the way they are. Very specific

00:52:23   changes I can kind of get behind, like the fact that, especially since doing six

00:52:27   colors, I have taken the Apple logos on all of my devices and put six color

00:52:34   Apple rainbow decal on all of them, and that is a bit of customization. Also, I

00:52:38   just had this happen, and it's something I want to point out on the practical side

00:52:42   of stickers. Believe it or not, there is a practical side of stickers. My friend and

00:52:47   former coworker Rob Griffiths was just tweeting the other day about how they went on a—he

00:52:54   made sure to bring his laptop on a trip that they were taking, get to their destination

00:52:58   and discover that it's actually his child's laptop.

00:53:02   Tim Cynova Yep, that makes sense.

00:53:04   Ben Gromick And I said, "Rob, you know, what we did is

00:53:06   I got—I made all the MacBooks in the house to get decals of some sort on them so that

00:53:12   we could tell them all apart because I was endlessly picking up my wife's or my son's

00:53:16   and not mine and now mine has the Apple logo, hers has this knitting pattern on it and he

00:53:22   has a TARDIS from Doctor Who with the Apple, the cut out for the, because it's a MacBook

00:53:27   Air, the cut out for the Apple logo, it goes over the windows so it's like the windows

00:53:31   light up but we can tell them all apart and that's good. Now my daughter has a Chromebook

00:53:36   and her Chromebook is completely covered with stickers so she's, she's doing it the mic,

00:53:41   the mic way. And that's fine. In fact, when we were in Hawaii, I made sure that we got

00:53:47   some stickers or decals, I guess they ended up being as a souvenir and that got put down

00:53:52   on her computer and my son's got his on his DS, his Nintendo DS. It's got stickers on

00:53:59   it. And you know what device I put stickers on, Myke? The iPod Hi-Fi.

00:54:05   Oh, I've seen them. I'm on that.

00:54:09   Yeah, because I'm okay with that. But most of them I'm not, for the same reasons, which

00:54:14   is I think they're kind of messy, and I don't want to go all in with like, you've gone all

00:54:22   in on messy. It's like a quilt. It's just a whole bunch of different stuff piled on

00:54:27   top of each other. I didn't want to do that for a couple reasons. One is tactile. I know

00:54:33   that I will feel the edges on those devices

00:54:36   and I'll just start picking on the edges of them

00:54:37   and it'll drive me crazy.

00:54:39   And that is me,

00:54:41   but that's a thing that I know about myself.

00:54:43   And I also don't like if I put one on or two on,

00:54:46   then it's sort of like this clean sheet

00:54:48   with a couple of things defacing it

00:54:50   and that bothers me too.

00:54:52   - You've got to go all in

00:54:53   if you're gonna put them on in my opinion.

00:54:54   - So I can't do it.

00:54:55   I can't do it.

00:54:56   The iPod Hi-Fi is a fun place

00:54:58   'cause I get all these great stickers

00:54:59   and I have no place to put them.

00:55:00   I've stuck them on there

00:55:02   because quite frankly, I don't really care

00:55:04   if that thing gets covered with stickers, it's just fine.

00:55:07   And then the other thing is the hand me down thing

00:55:08   where I feel like if I stick a bunch of stickers on things,

00:55:11   I'm gonna have to do the work to peel them all off

00:55:14   before I sell or give away the device.

00:55:18   So it's not for me, I did put in honor of Myke Hurley,

00:55:22   I have started putting some stickers

00:55:24   on one of my keyboard cases,

00:55:27   the Logitech 9.7 inch keyboard case.

00:55:32   I put some stickers on there because I figured.

00:55:34   I have stickers on the cases too, right?

00:55:37   So I have them on the devices and on the cases.

00:55:39   Anyway, I don't, you know, it's not,

00:55:43   and stickers just feel so permanent too,

00:55:45   the fact that they don't come off.

00:55:48   It can overlap.

00:55:49   You know? Yeah.

00:55:53   Pump straight over.

00:55:54   Yeah.

00:55:56   I don't know.

00:55:57   Probably add to the thickness over time.

00:56:00   I think you'd have to go many layers deep

00:56:01   You would end up with a very thick layer of stickers over time.

00:56:08   Imagine if John Syracuse loved putting stickers on his computer.

00:56:13   Let's stop there because it could never possibly ever happen.

00:56:18   But imagine now him using that same Mac Pro for eight years.

00:56:23   He wouldn't be able to fit it in the room anymore.

00:56:25   It would be like three inches thick of just stickers.

00:56:29   You'd have to cut through it, right?

00:56:31   It would be a real problem for him.

00:56:34   - It'd be archeology to excavate back

00:56:36   to the bottom layer of the stickers.

00:56:39   - So stickers, they're awesome.

00:56:42   - Yeah, it's kind of your calling card now.

00:56:45   And they're fun, they're fun.

00:56:47   I just, you know, if I could like have an expiration date,

00:56:50   I've said this about tattoos too, it's the same thing,

00:56:51   which is like, if it like disappeared after a period of time,

00:56:57   like just vanished. I would feel much better about it. Like yeah, I got that sticker on

00:57:01   there now but you know in three months that sticker will just be gone and it'll be fine

00:57:05   but that's not how they work.

00:57:07   Speaking of stickers and tattoos, you can buy a sticker of the tattoo I have on my arm.

00:57:12   It's true.

00:57:13   If you want to.

00:57:14   I don't.

00:57:15   So go and do that. You should. This week's episode is brought to you by Casper, the company

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00:58:19   - Yeah, indeed, I spent all day yesterday laying on it.

00:58:22   - Oh no, well, I mean, you know,

00:58:25   if you're gonna lay on something,

00:58:26   let it be a custom mattress.

00:58:28   - And it was a very hot day

00:58:29   and we don't have air conditioning.

00:58:30   And one of the things I appreciate about it is the,

00:58:33   it doesn't sleep hot.

00:58:36   I was able to lay on it and not be kind of hot and miserable

00:58:39   while I was, even though it was a fairly warm day.

00:58:42   - So you were feeling a little under the weather,

00:58:43   you weren't just being noisy.

00:58:44   - I was way under the weather.

00:58:46   The weather, you couldn't even see the weather

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00:59:28   of the show.

00:59:30   It is time for Ask Upgrade.

00:59:35   Brent wants to know Myke have you put stickers on your Nintendo Switch?

00:59:40   I haven't yet but I probably will because it feels like a device that would look good

00:59:46   with some stickers on it.

00:59:47   I know that apparently the plastic does not take too kindly to you taking them off, like

00:59:52   sticker adhesive doesn't work very well with the Nintendo Switch plastic, whatever coating

00:59:59   it is that they use but as I said I don't take stickers off so it wouldn't bother me.

01:00:05   But yeah it is something that, it is a device in my mind that I could put it on if it feels

01:00:08   like it passes the size barrier.

01:00:11   Now the Nintendo Switch plastic coating, that of the actual unit itself, if you lick that

01:00:16   it doesn't taste better, right?

01:00:18   I haven't licked that, I think it's just the cartridges though.

01:00:22   I haven't licked the cartridge.

01:00:23   Maybe that could be the next frontier for materials in tech products would be like a

01:00:29   taste or smell coating.

01:00:32   Yeah, scratch and sniff or a taste test.

01:00:35   I'm going to go to the next one.

01:00:37   I'm going to go to the next one.

01:00:39   I'm going to go to the next one.

01:00:41   I'm going to go to the next one.

01:00:43   I'm going to go to the next one.

01:00:45   I'm going to go to the next one.

01:00:47   I'm going to go to the next one.

01:00:49   I'm going to go to the next one.

01:00:51   I'm going to go to the next one.

01:00:53   I'm going to go to the next one.

01:00:55   I'm going to go to the next one.

01:00:57   I'm going to go to the next one.

01:00:59   I'm going to go to the next one.

01:01:01   I'm going to go to the next one.

01:01:03   little selector underneath and you can select time and it will show you what the time will

01:01:08   be in each of the time zones. It's pretty good, I've been using it for a long time and

01:01:13   I like it a lot. I don't have a good suggestion for a full on application or something more

01:01:19   full featured in the widget if you're looking for that and I wanted to throw this out to

01:01:23   the Upgradients if they have any suggestions for a good time zone management app for Matthias

01:01:29   of these devices.

01:01:33   Hunter has asked, "You're allowed to keep..."

01:01:36   Well, he's not asked, it's more,

01:01:38   "Given us a hypothetical, right,

01:01:40   that we're allowed to keep one iPad or one iPhone

01:01:43   with just two apps on it, which device and which apps?"

01:01:46   I spent a lot of time thinking about this, Jason.

01:01:49   -That's a weird question. -It is.

01:01:52   It's very specific in a couple of ways,

01:01:55   which make me raise an eyebrow.

01:01:57   -Is this the only device we have?

01:01:59   this is

01:02:06   apps on that device. So I decided I'm going to pick with this my 9.7 inch iPad with Slack

01:02:14   and Air Mail. Because if I'm going to be only using one iOS device, I will be doing my work

01:02:22   on it the same that I always have and an iPhone doesn't work. I need the split screen and

01:02:30   I would prefer to have the portability not completely destroyed. So I would go 9.7 over

01:02:35   12.9, right, so I'm picking the middle of the road

01:02:37   on the portability to still get the use,

01:02:40   but so I can still carry it around

01:02:41   without needing a bag all the time.

01:02:44   And I'm assuming that I still have

01:02:46   all of the other stock apps, so I could, for example,

01:02:49   read Twitter on their website, right?

01:02:51   So I would go with Slack, because I don't think

01:02:53   I can use the iOS, on iOS, I don't think

01:02:56   you could Slack in a window, I've never tried,

01:02:58   but I wouldn't want to.

01:02:59   And Air Mail is just the best way for me to manage my email,

01:03:04   And so Slack and AML would be the two things

01:03:06   that I would want the most,

01:03:07   because I could still continue to get my business done

01:03:10   in a world where for some reason,

01:03:12   Hunter's restricted me so heavily.

01:03:14   - Yeah, it's a cruel dystopian future

01:03:16   that Hunter is displaying here

01:03:18   where you're only allowed to have one iOS device

01:03:20   and the App Store only has two apps in it.

01:03:23   - So what have you gone with?

01:03:24   - I'm going to say the, my iPhone 7.

01:03:30   - Okay.

01:03:32   If I am only allowed to have one iOS device, I'm going to have it be the one that I can put in my pocket,

01:03:37   because although I prefer not to go back to the way I lived before, I will do it if I need to,

01:03:44   and I'll just use my MacBook Air or get a MacBook or MacBook Pro, whatever, for the things I use my iPad for now.

01:03:49   But I can't stick... Apple does not yet make a Mac that I can stick in my pocket and go walk the dog and listen to podcasts with,

01:03:56   So I'm going to say that and Overcast and probably Slack for the same reasons that you

01:04:02   did.

01:04:03   Yeah, Overcast would be one that I would miss a lot, but you know, I'm assuming that I have

01:04:07   all the stock apps, so I would have to move to the podcast app in that situation, which

01:04:12   would make me very sad, but there's nothing...

01:04:16   I mean, I guess I could use the regular mail app, right?

01:04:20   But it's...

01:04:21   I really don't like it.

01:04:22   Hmm.

01:04:23   I'll struggle on that one.

01:04:24   I would change to overcast and slack. I'm not sure.

01:04:28   Yeah, and maybe if I, the question is would I prefer to use Twitterific and Apple Podcasts

01:04:34   or overcast and the Twitter website and you know, I guess flip a coin there. But I'd have

01:04:41   to be my phone just so I could have it, the device that's with me when I'm out walking

01:04:45   around and I would just go back to the Mac for the stuff I use the iPad for.

01:04:50   Jimmy wants to know what we expect from the next upgrade to the Apple Watch.

01:04:56   I don't expect huge stuff but this is maybe the things that I would at least want the

01:05:01   most which would be for it to be continue to be faster, continue to have better battery

01:05:06   but to be thinner. I would really like it to be thinner than it is. Thinner and lighter

01:05:12   would be great for me for the next version of the Apple Watch. If I was going to think

01:05:16   of a feature that they may put in, this is something I definitely will think is coming

01:05:21   eventually but it might be like the version after this which would be LTE chip would be

01:05:28   really great.

01:05:31   Just because then you could just, it would always be able to use it and I feel like a

01:05:34   lot like be able to use a connection I feel like that might help a lot of the slowness

01:05:38   because it's not always grabbing stuff from the phone if at all.

01:05:41   An LTE chip might be nice because then you could just use it without the phone ever needing

01:05:44   to be around.

01:05:45   you have a feature that I definitely want but I'll let you go with it.

01:05:51   Yeah, the screen always on. Doesn't always have to be animated, doesn't have to be, you

01:05:57   know, when you're not looking at it, it doesn't have to have a second hand that's sweeping

01:06:00   through or something blinking or anything like that, whatever you need to do to save

01:06:03   power but that if I, to get rid of the thing where you need to actively kind of flip your

01:06:09   wrist in a certain way or the screen doesn't show up and your watch doesn't, is blank,

01:06:15   It's no good. It should be, you know, I've learned to live with it, but it's just, it

01:06:18   should be on. There should be something showing the time on when you look at it all the time.

01:06:25   And then I also agree about a cellular connection being something that they need to add down

01:06:30   the road. I don't even think it necessarily needs to be LTE. A slower connection would

01:06:34   be fine and might be cheaper and, you know, smaller and be able to use less power.

01:06:40   - LTE, I really doubt it needs LTE.

01:06:43   - Right, but even just like 3G,

01:06:45   I think that there's a lot that you could do

01:06:50   if it can rely on having an internet connection

01:06:53   all the time.

01:06:54   And if they now have these things where like

01:06:56   your phone will also ring on other cellular devices

01:07:00   that are on your plan.

01:07:01   So you could have it where you go for a run

01:07:04   and if somebody calls you on your phone,

01:07:06   your watch will ring,

01:07:07   even if you're nowhere near your phone,

01:07:09   that's pretty great.

01:07:10   because that means that you can stay in touch and you don't have to carry your phone with

01:07:13   you at all.

01:07:15   Brent asked, "How often do you use tap backs in iMessage?"

01:07:18   Now in case you don't remember, tap backs is the name that Apple gave to the thing where

01:07:23   you can leave a heart or a thumb up or a thumb down or exclamation mark or a ha ha or a message

01:07:29   in iMessage.

01:07:31   I use them quite a lot actually, especially in group conversations, especially if I come

01:07:35   catching up on a group conversation.

01:07:37   I can kind of just leave something to show that I'd seen it.

01:07:40   I started using it a lot more after I realized the best way to get to this menu is to double

01:07:48   tap the message, not to 3D touch it.

01:07:52   It's way easier to get to it just by double tapping the message and then you're given

01:07:56   a little dialogue to select from.

01:07:57   What I don't like about them is the way the notifications are presented to the other person.

01:08:02   I think it's silly.

01:08:04   that you see a full text notification that says, it's like Federico liked and then the

01:08:10   exact text of the message. I just feel like there needs to be a better way to display

01:08:14   that information than in text. Like it just doesn't work for me.

01:08:17   >> Yeah. >> But do you use them?

01:08:20   >> I will occasionally use them on iOS and I never use them on the Mac because on the

01:08:24   Mac getting to them is kind of ridiculous and you end up like control clicking on a

01:08:31   a message and choosing "tap back" and then choosing... it's no. No. But occasionally

01:08:37   I'll do it on iOS because it is easy there, like you said.

01:08:40   Ben: Final question today comes from Ganon. Ganon wants to know, "What is..." Ganon,

01:08:47   the name Ganon makes me think of Zelda now. That's all I can do. I'm sorry, Ganon. "What

01:08:51   is your go-to pair of everyday sneakers?" For me, currently, it is the Nike Air Max

01:08:59   Flyknit, they're so good. So it is the Air Maxx shape of shoe in the material that Nike

01:09:06   called Flyknit, which is like this nice woven, really light, airy material. I have a pair

01:09:14   and I love them. And whilst looking for this, I have the Air Maxx One Ultra Flyknit. And

01:09:20   whilst looking through their website to get this link, I found a version two in some cool

01:09:25   colours which I may have to treat myself to at some point in the near future.

01:09:31   And it's so exciting. My shoes are New Balance M1340 which has a, actually is made of a similar

01:09:41   material I think. And yeah, that's what my podiatrist told me to get was some control

01:09:51   shoes, stability control shoes. So that's what I've got. And I find it funny the way

01:09:56   that this is, my go-to pair of everyday sneakers it is. These are my shoes. I wear them. Basically,

01:10:03   they're the only shoes that I wear. So, yeah. I'm in those all the time.

01:10:09   I have lots of pairs of sneakers. I'm shocked. Yeah, it's a thing that I actually do like a lot from a fashion perspective.

01:10:20   I'm not as interested in fashion as I used to be as a younger man, but sneakers is a thing that I do still really enjoy.

01:10:27   Alright, that wraps it up for this week's episode of Upgrades.

01:10:31   A few things you can do if you want to submit a question for Snail Talk at the beginning of the show,

01:10:36   and

01:10:55   to

01:11:10   and is the host of the new show, Download on Relay FM,

01:11:12   which is at relay.fm/download.

01:11:14   If you want to find him more, you can do that.

01:11:16   I am @imike, I M Y K E on the Twitter machine.

01:11:21   I want to take a moment to thank our sponsors again, Casper, Mack, Walden

01:11:25   and Encapsular for supporting the show.

01:11:26   But most of all, as always, to you out there, the Upgradients,

01:11:30   thank you for listening, as you always do.

01:11:33   And we'll be back next time.

01:11:34   Until then, say goodbye, Mr.

01:11:35   Sal. Goodbye, everybody.

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