136: My Screen, My Stuff


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:10   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, Episode 136.

00:00:15   Today's show is brought to you by Encapsula, Squarespace, and MacWelder.

00:00:20   My name is Myke Hurley and I am joined across a glass table by Mr. Jason Snow.

00:00:25   Oh, hi Myke, I didn't see you there.

00:00:29   That is podcast comedy, ladies and gentlemen.

00:00:31   - Oh, that's the highest, of the highest caliber.

00:00:34   But look out the window, Myke.

00:00:35   This is the best view we've ever had

00:00:36   for an episode of Upgrade, I think.

00:00:38   - I will put a picture in the show notes

00:00:40   of our view right now.

00:00:41   Me and Jason are sitting in a hotel in Killarney

00:00:45   called The Europe, 'cause we're attending

00:00:47   the All Conference.

00:00:49   I think this is the third episode of Upgrade

00:00:52   recorded at All. - Yes, indeed.

00:00:53   - In this very location. - Yes.

00:00:55   - It's like our second home as a show.

00:00:58   - I guess.

00:00:59   - It's the place we've recorded most frequently.

00:01:01   - Probably, other than our own homes.

00:01:04   - Yeah. - Yeah.

00:01:05   - I think that will work.

00:01:06   This is the place that we're together the most.

00:01:08   So we are here and we're enjoying the All Conference,

00:01:11   but obviously we took time out of the day

00:01:14   to record the show for you.

00:01:15   And we should begin this episode,

00:01:16   as we begin every other episode,

00:01:19   with #SnailTalk, so you send in your questions.

00:01:22   We have the #SnailTalk on Twitter,

00:01:24   and I get them for Jason.

00:01:25   Now Jason, there's been a trend over the last couple of weeks where people are asking me

00:01:30   baseball related questions and I think they're trying to get me to annoy you. They keep like

00:01:37   mentioning other teams. But what I will take a question here that I think is maybe the

00:01:42   most innocuous, which comes from Robert, which is, "What do you think of the Giants chances

00:01:47   this year?"

00:01:48   I think they are, well, they've started the season poorly, but there are hopes that

00:01:56   they will have an okay year.

00:01:58   And in the end, all you can hope for is that they finish strong enough to get a chance

00:02:02   to win at the end.

00:02:04   And they've done that a lot lately.

00:02:06   So I enjoy baseball, is what I'm going to say.

00:02:10   And we've had a lot of success in San Francisco lately.

00:02:13   And if we have more, that's great.

00:02:17   Congratulations to Baseball.

00:02:19   Hooray for Baseball!

00:02:20   Welcome back to Baseball.

00:02:22   Baseball now being played.

00:02:24   We love Baseball, I guess.

00:02:25   Yes, we do.

00:02:27   It's the official sport of Upgrade.

00:02:29   I thought that was Brain Ball.

00:02:30   Uh, okay.

00:02:32   It's the second official sport of Upgrade.

00:02:36   So we, last week in Ask Upgrade, somebody was asking about Dropbox-related media players.

00:02:42   And boy did we get some response.

00:02:44   We got many responses of options.

00:02:46   So if you are somebody who has Dropbox files that you would like to have a media app to

00:02:51   play maybe music or podcasts or audiobooks, I have four suggestions.

00:02:57   Many of these were suggested by multiple people, but I picked out the people that suggested

00:03:00   them first.

00:03:01   James suggested an app called Bound.

00:03:04   Mark suggested an app called Infuse.

00:03:06   Ali suggested Cloudbeats and John suggested Endplayer.

00:03:09   Now full disclosure, I have not tried any of these.

00:03:12   No, me neither.

00:03:13   is not really a thing that I need or that I would use.

00:03:18   So what I'm going to do, I'm going

00:03:20   to put them all in the show notes

00:03:21   so you can go and take a look.

00:03:22   I looked at the screenshots.

00:03:23   They all look like legit applications.

00:03:25   Some are free, some are paid.

00:03:26   So if you out there need this type of application

00:03:29   in your life, you now have some suggestions

00:03:32   in our lovely show notes, which will be in your podcast app

00:03:35   of choice, so relay.fm/upgrades/136.

00:03:39   So you can go and take a look for yourself.

00:03:42   and I don't know, listen to music, I think is the thing?

00:03:46   - From Dropbox?

00:03:46   - From Dropbox, everybody's favorite music storage solution.

00:03:49   - Yeah, that's right.

00:03:51   I'm rocking on Dropbox.

00:03:54   - You know, drop rocks?

00:03:56   - Yeah.

00:03:57   - We have rocks in it?

00:03:57   - Sure.

00:03:58   - Yeah, we could do that.

00:03:59   - Rockbox, rockbox.

00:04:00   - We did it, we did it everyone.

00:04:01   We're on fire today.

00:04:03   We are cooking with gas.

00:04:05   So it was a week ago that we had the Mac Pro announcement,

00:04:10   Apple's recommitment to the professional Mac user.

00:04:13   - And we were surprised, I mean, really,

00:04:16   we recorded last week's upgrade.

00:04:17   - We were on the heels.

00:04:18   - I was visiting your co-host from remaster, Shahid,

00:04:23   at his house, and then he drove me over to your house.

00:04:28   And when I was at his house,

00:04:30   I got the notification that that had happened.

00:04:34   So I had a little car ride to think about it,

00:04:36   and then you were already on Connected,

00:04:38   And so we were, it was hot on the heels.

00:04:40   It could not have been timed any better slash worse

00:04:44   in terms of just sort of having the instant reactions.

00:04:46   So now we had a little bit more time.

00:04:48   The one correction I wanted to make,

00:04:50   although we, it's one of those things

00:04:51   that we said we thought was true,

00:04:53   but then we expressed a lot of skepticism

00:04:56   about whether it was true or not.

00:04:58   So I feel like this isn't necessarily an error

00:05:00   as much as a, I wanna restate that we were right

00:05:04   when we said we had no idea,

00:05:06   which is the specifications for the Mac Pro.

00:05:10   Like within a half an hour after I was done with upgrade,

00:05:14   Marco, Armet, and I had a Twitter exchange

00:05:17   about how the update to the Mac Pro

00:05:20   was literally a pricing change,

00:05:21   and the hardware didn't actually change at all,

00:05:23   and the high-end model is just the high end

00:05:25   of the former bill to order.

00:05:27   So the prices are less, but it's not,

00:05:29   they're not new in any way.

00:05:30   They're just existing configurations that they repriced.

00:05:33   And we thought there might be something new there,

00:05:35   but we didn't know, and the answer is,

00:05:38   we didn't know because there isn't one, there's nothing new.

00:05:41   - Yeah, like the processors aren't new processors, right?

00:05:44   They've just chopped off the lowest end

00:05:47   and brought the more powerful ones down the line, yeah?

00:05:50   And the same with the GPUs as well,

00:05:51   'cause this was something I think we kind of spoke about

00:05:54   on the show, especially with the GPUs,

00:05:57   that we don't, me and you, I think,

00:05:58   don't really follow that stuff so much,

00:06:00   so it was easy for us to kind of, for it to slip by,

00:06:03   'cause it was basically just a lot of numbers

00:06:05   letters really yeah but we knew they were better but that nothing new was

00:06:09   introduced yeah that's exactly right and and it's just a as we said and I think

00:06:14   we've said for a while we've heard from people who buy Mac pros sometimes you

00:06:19   need to buy a Mac Pro because you have a specific need and it fulfills it and you

00:06:23   need to do it and that's the answer to the question who's buying Mac pros is

00:06:27   there Pete there's some people who have to get one doesn't matter that they know

00:06:31   that it's old and hasn't been updated and all of that.

00:06:34   They need that system.

00:06:36   And so that's why Apple's keeping them around.

00:06:38   At least now it's a better value

00:06:40   that they're getting a higher end version

00:06:43   of that old system.

00:06:44   - Yeah, if you have to do it,

00:06:46   you maybe feel a small percentage less ripped off.

00:06:49   - Yeah, that's a good way to put it.

00:06:51   - By the fact that you have to do it

00:06:52   because you're now getting a little bit more

00:06:54   bang for your buck.

00:06:55   - Right, at least you're not paying the same price

00:06:58   that somebody paid for that exact same computer

00:07:00   three years ago. Whilst we're here at all, I did want to mention that I'm merely attending,

00:07:07   but you are participating, you are reincarnating All Radio, which was something that you did

00:07:13   last year, which was a fascinating mini-series of interviews with people that were giving

00:07:19   presentations at all as a way to document what was happening, but also to give people

00:07:24   that can't be here a glimpse into what it was all about.

00:07:30   So you're going to be doing that again this time, right?

00:07:32   Yeah, yeah.

00:07:33   So we're bringing it back.

00:07:34   That's why they asked me back.

00:07:36   There will be more this time because I'm a little more

00:07:38   organized in scheduling my interviews.

00:07:41   So we'll be doing a bunch of interviews tomorrow afternoon

00:07:46   and rolling them out.

00:07:47   I guess as I get a chance, some of them

00:07:51   will roll out after I get home because I'm

00:07:53   doing so many interviews that I'm not going to be able to produce them, but I have a very

00:07:57   long trip home on Wednesday, so I may do some of it then.

00:08:00   But lots of interesting people come here and speak, and the reality is, even though they

00:08:04   do some capturing of the sessions, it's kind of lost if you're not here.

00:08:09   It's kind of lost to history.

00:08:10   And even if you are here, there are oftentimes sort of questions that people have, and that

00:08:15   in this case that I have, about why those people are here and what they're talking

00:08:19   about that I get to follow up.

00:08:20   So they're fun little interviews with interesting people

00:08:22   is sort of the bottom line of it.

00:08:24   And I was happy with how the ones turned out last time,

00:08:26   so I'm glad to be back and do it again.

00:08:28   - So I'm gonna put in the show notes the RSS feed

00:08:30   so people can go and subscribe.

00:08:32   I recommend that you actually go and listen

00:08:34   to episode seven of the previous years.

00:08:37   It was Chadwick Seven's Escape Room,

00:08:39   where we did an escape room,

00:08:41   and you recorded the audio of the escape room.

00:08:43   And it's a really fun episode.

00:08:44   - It's weird but fun.

00:08:45   It's not like the others in that way.

00:08:47   It's not quite representative, but it is kind of fun.

00:08:49   it's a fun little thing just to listen to.

00:08:51   Alright, today's show is brought to you by our friends at Encapsula, the multifunction

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00:09:47   only get a live traffic view of your site to see what's happening, you can also create

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00:09:54   As a listener of this show, you can get one whole month of service for absolutely free.

00:09:59   All you need to do is go to encapsula.com/upgrade.

00:10:06   You'll find out more here about Encapsula and also claim your free month.

00:10:09   Thank you so much to Encapsula for their very much continued support of this show and Relay

00:10:13   FM.

00:10:14   They're a great company, great service, great people.

00:10:16   and check them out. So Mr Jason Snell, I had an entire episode planned last week. I had

00:10:24   taken the time as always, as we always do, to we go through and we think about what do

00:10:28   we want to talk about. And then Apple, every now and then, drops a bombshell on us and

00:10:33   we ended up last week talking about the Mac Pro stuff for even longer than I expected.

00:10:38   So I didn't, when I woke up this morning in Dublin, before we got the train down to Killarney,

00:10:43   we are right now. I didn't, all I needed to do was copy and paste from the previous

00:10:48   document and I have our entire show here.

00:10:52   So this is what Upgrade 135 would have been.

00:10:55   This is a time, this is an episode like a time machine episode.

00:10:59   If we weren't so hungry and exhausted last week we could have just recorded this episode

00:11:02   last week.

00:11:03   We could have.

00:11:04   We wouldn't have had any follow up. But yes, we were planning on things and we would

00:11:07   have come up with something to talk about this time, some new topics, but it was, this

00:11:12   easier, I suppose. And the fact is, last week I was traveling. In some ways, since one of

00:11:17   our topics is travel, this is better because this week you were traveling. You were preparing

00:11:21   to travel last week. That was going to be the idea. And now we are both traveling.

00:11:24   So, we're going to talk about how we travel with technology in 2017. I feel like this

00:11:29   is, along with home screens and stuff like that, this is a topic that me and you have

00:11:33   come back to maybe a couple of times.

00:11:36   It's what we call an evergreen topic. It's something that you just want to revisit every

00:11:40   now and then because the technology changes and your approaches change. And I think it's

00:11:45   not, if somebody said, "What about travel tech?" we could say, "Well, go listen to

00:11:48   when we talked about it at the end of episode 24," or something like that. But the fact

00:11:52   is our travel experience now is different than it was when we started this podcast.

00:11:56   It keeps changing, so why not talk about it a little bit while we're here?

00:11:59   So let's start with the beginning of the trip, the packing. So where does your packing checklist

00:12:05   live and how does that work?

00:12:06   Well, it's a series of calendar events, Myke.

00:12:09   (laughing)

00:12:11   - Do you keep it in Game Center,

00:12:13   or do you write on the back of a postcard

00:12:17   and take a picture of it and save it in iCloud Photo Library?

00:12:20   - Well, I have a copy of Sticky's running in an emulator

00:12:22   that's running Mac OS 9.

00:12:23   - Sticky's, there is a version of it.

00:12:25   - I know, it's still there.

00:12:26   - I was using it for a while to remind me

00:12:28   to press the button on Audio Hijack.

00:12:30   - So, oh nice, that's very nice.

00:12:32   My packing list lives in two places.

00:12:37   You might be able to guess them.

00:12:38   One is in my head in the noggin, and the other is I have a reminders list that is before

00:12:45   I go things to do.

00:12:47   That is essentially where it lives.

00:12:49   And this list, is it just a growing list?

00:12:52   Yeah, I would say that it's not one of those sort of like standard, "I've got a list

00:12:56   of everything I need to take."

00:12:57   We do that for some…

00:12:58   It varies depending on what trip I'm taking.

00:13:00   When we went to camp every summer, we had a camp list that we had compiled as we went

00:13:05   that we knew like every year…

00:13:06   In these specific things that trip.

00:13:07   Yeah, and you forget.

00:13:08   from the year before.

00:13:09   But for most of these sorts of trips,

00:13:12   what I have is, and it's always there,

00:13:15   it's just usually empty, a before-I-go list.

00:13:18   And a before-I-go list, every time I think of something

00:13:20   that I need to do before I go, I need to post this podcast,

00:13:23   I need to record this thing, I need to send this thing,

00:13:25   whatever it is, I put it on the list.

00:13:27   And then before I leave, I make sure

00:13:29   that I've done all of those things.

00:13:30   And that means I don't necessarily do them all

00:13:33   at the same time at the end.

00:13:35   Sometimes I just will remember I need to do that

00:13:38   and I'll go do it and then I'll check it off the list.

00:13:40   But it does ensure that everything gets done.

00:13:43   - So I have a, I use Clear for this,

00:13:46   because Clear is like, for me,

00:13:48   a perfect kind of checklist app.

00:13:50   And I have just a packing checklist in Clear

00:13:53   that nothing ever gets deleted from.

00:13:56   So all of the items I may ever need to pack

00:14:00   for any trip are in Clear.

00:14:02   And what I do is, they're all deactivated.

00:14:05   So I go in and just activate them all,

00:14:07   because you swipe to like check and check off,

00:14:09   but it doesn't delete unless you ask it to do that.

00:14:12   So I'll go in before the trip,

00:14:13   I'll take a look at everything in the list,

00:14:15   I'll activate all those items,

00:14:16   and then as I pack them, I check them off again.

00:14:18   - Oh that's nice.

00:14:19   - So it's just like a list that I add to over time

00:14:22   as things change, but it's for any trip

00:14:24   I may ever need to take,

00:14:25   all of the items should be in that list,

00:14:27   and then I just go in and kind of activate and deactivate,

00:14:31   and then do my packing checklist.

00:14:34   So that's worked pretty well for me over time,

00:14:36   and like I only really use Clear for that.

00:14:41   Clear is a love little application.

00:14:44   It hasn't received any love in the last couple of years.

00:14:46   I think it might just be a kind of feature complete

00:14:50   and it just lives there,

00:14:52   but it's a great little app for stuff like checklists,

00:14:55   like just very simple checklists like shopping lists

00:14:57   and packing lists, so that's kind of how I do it.

00:15:00   - Nice.

00:15:00   - What devices are making your trip today?

00:15:02   What kind of big devices are you bringing?

00:15:05   Well, you know I like to travel just with my iPad.

00:15:09   But for this event, I brought my iPad and my MacBook Air.

00:15:14   The MacBook Air, mostly because I have a lot--

00:15:21   honestly, I had to edit the incomparable last week.

00:15:24   I did it actually on the train from London to Glasgow.

00:15:27   And I used Logic for that on the MacBook Air.

00:15:32   I could have done that in Fairite on my iPad,

00:15:35   but since I had the MacBook Air,

00:15:37   it is a little more efficient to do it there.

00:15:40   Really, for me, as we mentioned, I'm doing All Radio,

00:15:42   and that's a lot of interviews, it's a lot of podcasts,

00:15:47   and what I decided was I probably wanted

00:15:50   to start processing those before I went home,

00:15:53   and they all require some processing.

00:15:55   It's not complicated, but there are a lot of them,

00:15:57   and there will be a lot of processing,

00:15:59   and I just thought it would be more expedient

00:16:01   to do that all on the Mac and also that it is,

00:16:05   the Mac is more flexible and if I have any issues

00:16:08   that come up, if there's a technical issue,

00:16:10   I feel like having a Mac with me is a little bit safer

00:16:13   and since I'm coming all this way to do podcasts,

00:16:18   I felt like it would be irresponsible for me

00:16:21   not to bring it.

00:16:22   So it's one of those things that in another circumstance

00:16:25   I wouldn't have bothered but it is an 11 inch MacBook Air.

00:16:30   it's very small.

00:16:31   It doesn't take up a lot of room, so it's fine.

00:16:34   I had to bring the extra charger for it, but it's fine.

00:16:36   - Yeah, I brought my smaller iPad Pro, the 9.7,

00:16:41   with the, I used the Logitech Create.

00:16:44   Like, that, for me, that combo is like

00:16:46   the perfect travel machine, 'cause it's small

00:16:48   and I got the full keyboard and I can, you know,

00:16:49   that's what I was doing my outline work on this morning.

00:16:52   But I do have my MacBook as well.

00:16:55   The 12-inch MacBook, aka the MacBook Adorable,

00:16:57   because we're recording this show and in the show.

00:17:00   I could have gotten away with it and said like,

00:17:02   oh Jason, can I borrow your MacBook Air?

00:17:03   But like I just, this computer is so small.

00:17:06   Really, for me, the thing that was the most,

00:17:10   that added the most weight and annoyance

00:17:13   was bringing the USB-C charger,

00:17:15   'cause it's just this big thing that you have to bring.

00:17:17   But now I have my Nintendo Switch,

00:17:20   which needs a USB-C to charge.

00:17:23   And also I brought my Android phone with me, my Pixel,

00:17:27   because I'm gonna use it to take some video stuff.

00:17:30   So having a good USB-C charger is just a good thing to have.

00:17:35   So I threw the MacBook in the bag, 'cause it's easy.

00:17:39   - Well, like the 11-inch Air, it's so small

00:17:41   that it's really not that big a deal to bring it.

00:17:43   - It doesn't add so much weight to the already heavy-ish bag

00:17:47   that you would notice.

00:17:48   Like, what it adds, it obviously adds something,

00:17:51   but it's adding so little in proportion to everything else.

00:17:54   I just brought it with me.

00:17:55   And it just makes things easier when I'm doing the shows.

00:17:58   If we weren't recording this show,

00:17:59   this computer wouldn't be here, right?

00:18:01   - Yeah, and like I said, I think if I weren't doing

00:18:02   the old radio thing, I wouldn't have brought it.

00:18:04   And the reality is, I could have just come with my iPad

00:18:08   and made it work, even.

00:18:10   - 'Cause I mean, we're not recording into a computer

00:18:12   right now. - No, right now,

00:18:12   we're recording into the Zoom H6 recorder.

00:18:16   So yeah, it's not necessary, but I think both of you

00:18:21   and I made the, we made the same call,

00:18:23   which was it was a little more efficient

00:18:27   and a little more flexible and a little safer.

00:18:29   - Safer is a good point, right?

00:18:31   Because I like that word.

00:18:34   I feel with some of the things that I do,

00:18:36   I feel safer with the Mac than with iOS

00:18:38   because it's more, it's just got a better lineage

00:18:42   and history of doing certain tasks.

00:18:44   - And if you, there are ways to work around problems

00:18:46   on the Mac and on the iPad.

00:18:48   You know, this is something that we've talked about

00:18:50   many times before.

00:18:51   On iOS, if you hit the brick wall, you can hit it,

00:18:55   and you may not have a solution.

00:18:57   And we're fortunate to be in a place

00:18:58   with lots of people with Macs, so we probably would.

00:19:02   Although it's funny, you and Marco Arment

00:19:05   have both told me that you didn't,

00:19:06   you refrained from bringing podcast equipment,

00:19:09   which is fine 'cause I brought all of it in my suitcase.

00:19:11   But you guys didn't need to.

00:19:12   If you need an emergency podcast at some point,

00:19:15   just let me know, I've got all the microphones.

00:19:17   - Excellent, just always is on the hip.

00:19:19   - Yeah, I'll just pull out the microphones

00:19:21   you can do a podcast.

00:19:22   - We had our upgrade meet up early this week.

00:19:24   Thank you for everybody that attended.

00:19:26   It was excellent.

00:19:27   And I was talking to somebody about

00:19:30   if Apple were to bring really good audio support to iOS.

00:19:34   The kind of audio support that we're looking for,

00:19:36   the ability to record and listen

00:19:38   and basically an audio engine like the Mac has,

00:19:41   which would allow us to have a Skype call

00:19:43   and then use another application to capture that audio.

00:19:47   I still wouldn't trust it immediately 'cause it's new.

00:19:50   this is the trust thing.

00:19:52   I know the Mac will do this because I do it on the Mac

00:19:55   and have been doing it on the Mac for,

00:19:56   actually, seven years today, actually.

00:19:59   I've been podcasting for seven years.

00:20:01   So congratulations to me. - Congratulations, yes.

00:20:03   - But I've been doing it on the Mac for that entire time

00:20:06   and honestly, the failures that I've ever had,

00:20:09   it's not because of the OS.

00:20:11   It's not because of the apps.

00:20:12   It's something I've done that breaks things.

00:20:16   I don't have things that can't be repaired.

00:20:20   Well, I had all the Mac Pro woes,

00:20:22   but we don't have to talk about that right now.

00:20:24   - Yeah, I think comfort is a part of it,

00:20:29   and security is a part of it.

00:20:30   So for me, I'm comfortable in Fairite.

00:20:33   I know that you aren't, but I am comfortable with that app,

00:20:36   and so I'm comfortable editing on iOS.

00:20:38   It's a different experience, but a lot of it is,

00:20:42   again, it's the details, and that's what we would have,

00:20:44   in this scenario of yours, that's what we would get,

00:20:46   is files transferring and being able to do two things

00:20:49   once and all of that. And then, yes, this is what we both do for a living, so there's

00:20:54   a level of being careful and seeing how it goes and trying it out. And let's say, the

00:21:02   first time I try out, if the iPad gets an update, iOS gets an update, and suddenly we

00:21:07   can use it somehow so that I don't need to travel with a Mac to do all of the recording

00:21:12   stuff we do, the first time I do that is not going to be while I'm traveling, certainly

00:21:17   not going to be when I'm 5,000 miles away from home.

00:21:19   I'm going to do it at home so that if it fails,

00:21:22   I can switch to my Mac.

00:21:24   - Yeah, exactly.

00:21:25   - And then after a while of using that,

00:21:26   maybe I feel confident enough to take it on the road.

00:21:29   - Yeah, it's like I bring my Mac on a trip like this

00:21:32   for the same reason I pack an extra set of clothes.

00:21:36   - Right, because it's whatever the computer equivalent is

00:21:39   of spilling something on your pants.

00:21:42   You need another, you need a change of clothes.

00:21:44   - What are you going to do?

00:21:45   You need a change of clothes?

00:21:46   I need to change the computer.

00:21:47   - I only brought one set of pants on this trip,

00:21:50   and Lauren said, "What happens if you spill on your pants?"

00:21:53   And I said, "I guess I go wash them off,

00:21:56   "or everybody gets to see me wearing my pajama pants

00:22:00   "for a little while."

00:22:02   - I'm not gonna say I'm gonna spill any soup on you.

00:22:04   - Don't spill any soup on me.

00:22:07   - I would like to see you walking around in your pajamas.

00:22:09   - I've also got a pair of shorts,

00:22:10   so I might just walk around in the shorts too.

00:22:13   Why not?

00:22:14   I wanted to just, these are the devices,

00:22:17   these are our computing devices,

00:22:18   but they're not the only devices that we bring on a trip.

00:22:20   And I bring something like my Nintendo Switch

00:22:24   on a trip like this.

00:22:25   - Oh, is this your first time traveling

00:22:27   with a Nintendo Switch? - It is, yeah.

00:22:28   It's the first time I've been on a plane with it.

00:22:30   - Did you play with it on the plane?

00:22:31   - Yes, I did.

00:22:32   I only had like a 90 minute plane journey,

00:22:35   but it was incredible.

00:22:36   It was so good.

00:22:37   For when we were taking off and landing,

00:22:40   I just had it in handheld mode, right?

00:22:42   Like I'm just holding it and playing,

00:22:43   it was playing Zelda naturally and then when we were you know just in the air

00:22:47   and the seatbelt sign was off tray table down stand it up and just I disconnected

00:22:51   the controllers and I can have the switch closer to me and my hands around

00:22:55   the back of it Oh out parading the controllers because that's you can kind

00:22:59   of sit however you want and it was it was incredible like I mean I I'm in love

00:23:05   with Zoda I mean I will categorically say now it's the best video game I've

00:23:08   ever played like I think that it's just unbelievable and the switch system is so

00:23:14   great for stuff like this I am very excited as more games come out over the

00:23:19   next week so bringing games out a lot but like big games and the next one is

00:23:23   Mario Kart the end of the month which is a shame because by the end of the month

00:23:27   because I'm traveling basically all of April and Mario Kart comes out on 27th

00:23:31   like the day I can't finish my travel but then I can play it at home yes that's

00:23:36   - That's right. - That's great.

00:23:38   - I've got a Kindle with me as well.

00:23:42   I actually read a book on the plane.

00:23:44   And all my other entertainment is loaded on the iPad.

00:23:47   I've got movies and Netflix shows and things like that.

00:23:51   But I did bring the Kindle Oasis with me.

00:23:53   - Yeah, for a trip like this, for me,

00:23:55   I don't need to worry about movies.

00:23:58   But on the trips that I'm gonna be taking

00:24:00   over the next couple of weeks,

00:24:01   one of them's gonna be a trip to the US,

00:24:04   I'm putting stuff on there as well, like movies and whatever.

00:24:09   I know that there's always stuff on the plane to watch,

00:24:12   but I like to use my own devices.

00:24:14   - Yep, my stuff, my screen.

00:24:15   - I just way prefer that to anything that I get.

00:24:18   'Cause as well, the screens are never that great,

00:24:21   no matter kind of where you are on the plane,

00:24:23   and iPad is always gonna be better.

00:24:26   So that's what I bring there.

00:24:28   Now I can see your backpack, it's right over there,

00:24:31   and you're still using your trusty Brent Haven

00:24:34   that we've spoken about in the book.

00:24:35   - Yeah, indeed, this is the eBay duplicate that I got

00:24:39   that is a duplicate of the other one that's falling apart.

00:24:41   And you'll notice that Mr. James Thompson,

00:24:43   who is all here at the conference,

00:24:45   if you look at his backpack,

00:24:46   you'll find it's identical except in color.

00:24:50   - But this bag is not made anymore.

00:24:52   The Brent Haven bag, right?

00:24:53   They don't make this one?

00:24:54   - No, they don't.

00:24:54   So I ended up, yeah, and I've had it for like 15 years,

00:24:58   and I liked it so much that I realized

00:25:00   that as it was falling apart,

00:25:01   Maybe I could see if somebody was selling them

00:25:04   where they just had an old backpack around

00:25:06   and sure enough on eBay I found a couple.

00:25:08   So for 20 bucks I got a duplicate of it

00:25:11   so I can just never change.

00:25:13   - You better find another one.

00:25:15   - My theory is that by the time these ones fall apart

00:25:18   I will not be well enough to carry things on my back.

00:25:22   - Is that the situation? - Just be an old man.

00:25:24   That's my hope.

00:25:25   - Okay.

00:25:26   I've got a new bag by a company called Manal

00:25:29   and I bought the bag that they make called the Daily Carry bag

00:25:32   and this is the first trip that I've taken it on.

00:25:34   So this is a bag that I use kind of on my back.

00:25:38   We both, I mean they're not a sponsor of this episode,

00:25:41   but we both have our away suitcases.

00:25:43   That's why I got my clothes in.

00:25:45   And this is the first time that I've checked that bag

00:25:47   and it's worked fine for me.

00:25:48   - Me too.

00:25:50   - But I have kind of all of my stuff in my backpack.

00:25:53   And I've been really happy with this bag.

00:25:56   It's made really nicely.

00:25:57   It's got a lot of compartments in it,

00:25:59   which I was looking for.

00:26:00   And also everything opens flat, which I really like.

00:26:03   So I can unzip parts and just open the whole thing up

00:26:06   and I can get to what I need.

00:26:08   And the computer compartment is brilliant.

00:26:10   It has two neoprene slots, so I can put a larger device

00:26:15   and a smaller device in there,

00:26:16   and they're kind of held in by Velcro.

00:26:18   - Nice.

00:26:18   - And they're just suspended in the center of the bag.

00:26:20   So I can put MacBook and iPad into this little compartment

00:26:24   and it's done really well.

00:26:24   The straps are super comfortable.

00:26:26   like some of the most comfortable straps I've used.

00:26:29   And the bag is relatively heavy right now,

00:26:31   but it feels really excellent to put on.

00:26:33   This is a relatively new company,

00:26:35   they're based in New Zealand,

00:26:36   and they had two successful Kickstarters, I think.

00:26:39   One for their original bag,

00:26:40   and then they did one which had two bags,

00:26:42   'cause they do a carry-on bag,

00:26:44   and a daily bag, and I have the daily bag.

00:26:47   So I actually really, really recommend it.

00:26:49   I am very pleased with this bag.

00:26:52   So if that sort of thing interests you,

00:26:55   then it gets a big thumbs up from me.

00:26:57   So a friend of mine, his name's Chase Reeves,

00:27:00   and you've met Chase.

00:27:02   He actually does hilarious and really entertaining

00:27:05   bag reviews, like backpack reviews on YouTube.

00:27:08   I'll put a link in the show notes to his review of this bag

00:27:12   because he is the reason I bought it

00:27:15   because he did a really great job of explaining it

00:27:18   and kind of going through it and reviewing it.

00:27:20   So if you're interested in that, you can go there.

00:27:22   He reviews a bunch of stuff so you can go see

00:27:24   as a bag you're looking for. He's always got good solutions and good suggestions.

00:27:29   So what's going in this carry-on bag? So my cable situation is mostly taken care of by

00:27:37   the Anker USB wall charging hub thing. So I have one of those, you just plug it into

00:27:43   the mains and you have like five cables available to you. So you can just plug a bunch of USB

00:27:49   cables in so you're not searching for plugs all over the room. And they have a new one

00:27:54   now which I don't have but I will at some point upgrade to which has USB type C and

00:28:01   with the power delivery thing so it charges those devices quicker that's going to be something

00:28:06   that I will be getting in the future because that will charge something like this MacBook

00:28:10   on my switch like really quickly or even my iPad because the 12.9 inch iPad has that fast

00:28:16   charging thing if you have USB C power delivery so I'm grabbing you one of those now. The

00:28:21   The reason I like these devices is, like say me and Idina are traveling together, we need

00:28:26   minimum 4 USB cables.

00:28:29   And no hotel room on the planet gives you 4 plug sockets near the bed.

00:28:34   It just doesn't happen.

00:28:35   They just don't do it.

00:28:36   I don't know why, but it doesn't happen.

00:28:38   So these, I really recommend these Anker USB things.

00:28:41   Yeah, I've thought about buying those and I just haven't done it because my approach

00:28:46   has been, I still have a bunch of the, you're using one right now in fact, I have a bunch

00:28:50   of the long cables that I think Apple doesn't even put in the box anymore. That's the

00:28:55   long power cable that clips into the Apple power brick. And then for international travel

00:29:00   I just use a plug adapter. And so what I end up doing is I have, I think I brought three

00:29:05   of those.

00:29:06   You just have these long cables just trailing all over the room.

00:29:09   Right, one of the, one of the ways you can get, what I found is there are outlets around

00:29:14   and they're often inconvenient and I have a long USB cable and I have these long plug

00:29:18   cables and you put those two together and that outlet that's over by the window is

00:29:25   far enough you can get you can get it to so you can put your Apple watch or your by your

00:29:32   bedside or your iPhone by your bedside and not everything needs to be by my bedside I

00:29:37   can you know put the iPad across the room or whatever but and so right now like here

00:29:42   I traveled with three of those.

00:29:45   And that was enough for me.

00:29:46   But I'm intrigued by this because yeah,

00:29:49   the fact is when I travel, if it's all of us,

00:29:53   we have my daughter's phone, my son's iPad,

00:29:57   my wife's phone and iPad, and my phone and iPad,

00:30:00   and at that point we have six USB charge devices.

00:30:04   So right now what we do is everybody brings their own stuff

00:30:07   and it works fine, but this would work better.

00:30:10   - Yeah.

00:30:10   couple of those and you'd be set. You'd need one but like you had two.

00:30:14   I should just get one that's got six on it and I'd probably be done.

00:30:18   Yeah and I think this thing's a really good thing. You just need the one kind of European

00:30:21   adapter or

00:30:22   for me, in my case, a US adapter. Plug it straight into the wall and you're good to go.

00:30:26   Yeah. What about battery packs? Do you bring any batteries with you?

00:30:30   I try to. I actually forgot to bring my little Anker battery this time.

00:30:36   It's in the drawer at home but since I have the away

00:30:38   the away suitcase, which again, not a sponsor this week,

00:30:43   but that has a battery in it, the away carry-on.

00:30:47   And little known fact about the away,

00:30:49   since they're not a sponsor, is for parts of Asia,

00:30:53   you're not allowed to bring the battery,

00:30:56   to check the suitcase with the battery in it.

00:30:59   - They're not.

00:31:00   - In the rest of the world you are, they say,

00:31:01   because it's attached, there's specific regulations,

00:31:03   they've looked them up, because it's attached to the case

00:31:07   and it's below a certain capacity, it's considered safe.

00:31:10   But because in some places you may need to detach it,

00:31:13   it comes with a little screwdriver

00:31:14   that actually you zip inside.

00:31:16   And you can unscrew the case

00:31:20   and the battery charger pops right out.

00:31:23   And I did that because I was curious

00:31:26   and I was looking all this stuff up.

00:31:28   And you can actually slide that out and put it anywhere.

00:31:30   And it's a fully functional battery pack,

00:31:32   even when it's out of the suitcase,

00:31:34   it's just another big custom battery pack.

00:31:37   So I have used that a little bit,

00:31:40   but normally I do have an anchor,

00:31:43   a little black kind of oval cylindrical battery charger

00:31:48   that I keep around for emergencies, right?

00:31:51   It's that moment where your iPhone is about to run out

00:31:53   of gas and you need a little bit more to get to a charger.

00:31:57   - I was thinking about this.

00:31:58   I over pack batteries.

00:32:01   I have a Mophie that I don't think they make anymore.

00:32:06   It's one of their power station ones,

00:32:08   but it has an integrated lightning cable in it.

00:32:11   And I found it in an airport a couple of years ago,

00:32:14   and I don't think they make this exact one,

00:32:16   but they do, you know,

00:32:17   Mophie do make a ton of different solutions.

00:32:19   So I have that, which is just always there,

00:32:21   and it's like I can charge my phone

00:32:24   and put both things in my pocket if I need to, right?

00:32:26   'Cause it's big, but not too big.

00:32:28   So it's smaller than my phone.

00:32:31   I also have a huge Anker battery

00:32:33   called the Anker PowerCore.

00:32:36   This is like one of those batteries

00:32:37   that will charge your phone five times, right?

00:32:40   Like this is a all else fails,

00:32:42   here is the battery that I have.

00:32:44   And then on this trip, I also have my suitcase

00:32:46   which has a battery in it.

00:32:47   And I was thinking, am I--

00:32:50   - You're more battery than man now.

00:32:52   - Is this overkill was my thinking.

00:32:54   And I kind of came down to two things in this.

00:32:56   One, yes it is.

00:32:58   But two, I care about having my devices with me

00:33:02   all times and this is a way to ensure especially when I'm doing long travel that I have access

00:33:08   to those devices. Like if I'm traveling for 12 hours maybe on a plane or like from door

00:33:15   to door like from when I leave sometimes I'm traveling for 18 hours or something like that.

00:33:21   My phone will need to be charged more than once most likely with the amount that I use

00:33:26   it on a trip like that. If I'm playing like games on my Nintendo Switch that's going to

00:33:31   need to get charges or whatever. If there is a solution for a problem when it comes

00:33:39   to travel that can be solved by technology, I will take that road.

00:33:46   I guess my question would be, do you really need it? Because so many planes now have power

00:33:51   plugs or USB chargers.

00:33:53   But they don't always.

00:33:54   They don't always. It's true. It's true. And then, how many times do you need? I can

00:33:59   see, look, you can do as much as you feel you need to to be comfortable, I think, in

00:34:05   the end.

00:34:06   And this is it.

00:34:07   In the end, if this relieves your stress, then that's fine.

00:34:08   For me, I have driven a lot of this stuff out because I realized that it's not—now

00:34:14   it's stressing me out because it's unnecessary and I'm mad that I brought it and that that's

00:34:19   the time when you kind of shed those.

00:34:22   Because I feel like this is less of a worry than it used to be, that battery life has

00:34:25   gotten better, that there are more chargers in more places.

00:34:28   And if you've got a battery that you bring with you, then you've got it for emergencies.

00:34:33   I rarely need it for anything other than—honestly, I rarely need it when I travel.

00:34:38   It's when I'm at my destination and I'm not in my usual sort of charge-all-the-time

00:34:42   mode, and I'm walking around with my iPhone, and then at the end of the day, the iPhone—I've

00:34:46   been using it heavily because I'm not at home and I'm out and about, and that's

00:34:50   when the iPhone battery drains, which is why I like having that anchor battery that I've

00:34:56   that I can keep in my pocket and I can actually charge my phone while I'm walking around just

00:35:01   in my pocket. Back pocket's got the battery, front pocket's got the phone. So that's the

00:35:06   most common place for me, not on an airplane. But it's happened. I've had an international

00:35:10   flight and I was listening to music and doing other stuff and it ended up that my phone

00:35:16   was uncomfortably low for me and I was thinking, "I'm just getting off the plane in another

00:35:20   country and my phone's dying." And I had my battery and I was able to charge it and then

00:35:25   I felt a lot better.

00:35:26   - Yeah, I feel like I just have an increasing amount

00:35:28   of devices in my life that require power.

00:35:31   - Yeah.

00:35:31   - Like my headphones now.

00:35:33   - Yeah, well, so this is the same thing.

00:35:36   We talked last week about how I got an electric car.

00:35:38   - Yeah.

00:35:39   - And despite the fact that 95%, 99% of the time

00:35:44   we drive it, we'll be within about five miles of our house,

00:35:48   10 miles of our house.

00:35:49   We still spent most of our brain power

00:35:52   first week we had it dealing with range anxiety. And range anxiety is not just for cars, it's

00:35:59   for any device with a battery. There is the reality of when it runs out of battery and

00:36:05   if you can survive. And then there is the anxiety part of it. And it is psychological.

00:36:11   It is, "You're trying to plan ahead. You're concerned. But what if this lets me down?

00:36:16   What if I end up in a situation where I can't do this anymore?" And that's true for

00:36:22   a laptop or a phone, just as it's true for an electric car, and you just have to manage

00:36:27   it. And batteries do provide peace of mind. They also weigh, so you have to balance that

00:36:35   out. I feel like when we're traveling with bags and stuff like we are right now, as opposed

00:36:40   to being out in an event where you just have your phone with you, that's one of the nice

00:36:44   things about those little batteries, is that you can just stick them—we can stick them

00:36:48   in these bags, and it's not a big deal to bring them in the bag. And then if we want

00:36:52   to bring them with us out for the night we can do that too.

00:36:55   Alright so when we travel on, when we take these long trips, when people take these long

00:37:00   trips they want to be entertained. So I wanted to kind of touch on some things that we would

00:37:05   recommend or things that we're looking at right now for anybody that's got summer vacations

00:37:08   coming up, how to entertain themselves but before we do that let me take a moment to

00:37:13   thank Squarespace for supporting this week's show. Use the offer code UPGRADE at checkout

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00:37:36   to sell that little thing that you've created

00:37:39   which will help people pack better.

00:37:41   Maybe you have a restaurant, maybe you have a band,

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00:38:51   make your next move, make your next website. Do you watch movies on a airplane?

00:38:57   Yeah, sometimes. Although I do more TV shows than movies only because I feel like it gives

00:39:02   me more options to, I'm not committing to watching the same thing for two hours. I can

00:39:06   watch an hour here and an hour there. I do sometimes watch movies on planes but it's

00:39:11   It's a little more TV.

00:39:12   - And do you choose kind of whatever you're watching

00:39:16   right now, do you have go-tos?

00:39:17   - It's a combination.

00:39:18   I have some comfort food, like Doctor Who's coming back

00:39:22   this next weekend, and I have the, not the last series,

00:39:25   but the previous series, the first Peter Capaldi series.

00:39:29   I want to kind of revisit him before the new season starts,

00:39:31   so I loaded those on using Plex, actually.

00:39:35   I just downloaded them from my Plex server onto my iPad.

00:39:39   So that's some kind of comfort food.

00:39:42   And I also have, there are shows that I want to watch

00:39:46   and that my wife probably doesn't want to watch

00:39:52   that are fair game for a trip like this.

00:39:55   So I've got some of that.

00:39:57   And these days what it is mostly is stuff

00:40:02   from Amazon and Netflix that I can download.

00:40:04   Now that those services both allow you to download videos

00:40:08   to your device and watch them when you're off the internet,

00:40:12   that has made a big difference.

00:40:13   So those are my two techniques right now is,

00:40:17   stuff from streaming services that are not on the queue

00:40:20   to watch at home, and then some favorites

00:40:24   that I can just offload from my Plex server,

00:40:27   because Plex lets you download to a device,

00:40:29   and so that couldn't be easier.

00:40:31   And sometimes, if there's a show that I'm watching

00:40:34   that my wife's not watching that's on our DVR.

00:40:38   The TiVo, TiVo has an app that lets you download

00:40:42   those files too and play with them.

00:40:43   - You can download them locally?

00:40:44   - Yeah.

00:40:45   - That's awesome.

00:40:46   - Yeah, so I can walk away with,

00:40:47   I've got a few episodes on there too.

00:40:49   It's way more than I will ever possibly watch on this trip,

00:40:53   but what it means is on my 13 hours of flights

00:40:57   that I've got back to the US on Wednesday,

00:40:59   I will have a bunch to choose from

00:41:02   and I'll just see what I'm in the mood for.

00:41:03   Now, flying over here, I didn't watch anything

00:41:05   'cause I read a book instead,

00:41:06   but that was because that was what I was in the mood for.

00:41:10   I just didn't feel like, you know,

00:41:12   it's kinda hard to explain, just, I didn't feel like it.

00:41:14   I didn't feel like sitting there and watching a TV show.

00:41:16   I just wanted to put in some music and read a book.

00:41:21   Music, by the way, as I learned the hard way,

00:41:26   I think the last time I traveled,

00:41:28   part of my checklist now, my digital checklist,

00:41:31   is making sure that some of my favorite playlists

00:41:34   are downloaded to my phone,

00:41:36   because now that I am using Apple Music and all of that

00:41:39   and not syncing from iTunes,

00:41:40   I need to make sure that I've got files stored locally.

00:41:44   - Sometimes it feels like,

00:41:45   I mean, I have no way of testing this,

00:41:47   but something I feel like should be downloaded,

00:41:50   like I feel like I would have downloaded this, isn't.

00:41:53   - Well, it's marked as purgeable, just like on the Mac,

00:41:55   and if certain apps in iOS need free space,

00:42:00   the stuff I think can be freed.

00:42:04   Although it tries not to do it with things

00:42:06   you've explicitly downloaded, I'm not sure.

00:42:08   But sometimes I've had that same thing

00:42:10   and I don't know whether it's,

00:42:12   have I not listened to this since the last time

00:42:14   I upgraded my iPhone?

00:42:16   Or is it just that they went away

00:42:18   'cause they were just sitting there for a while

00:42:19   and now I need to get them back?

00:42:20   But I did get stuck on a plane,

00:42:23   I think when I was visiting my mom in Phoenix.

00:42:24   So it was only an hour flight,

00:42:26   but I got stuck on a plane where I looked at my music

00:42:28   and I realized I had no music to listen to.

00:42:30   So I have podcasts and I listen to podcasts some too,

00:42:33   but music was not gonna be an option.

00:42:35   - That's a big thing for me, making sure I download shows,

00:42:37   'cause I just stream everything.

00:42:39   - Oh yeah, yeah, then you have to.

00:42:41   I download 'em all, but I still go back into the archive.

00:42:45   A lot of times I'm listening to a show from way back,

00:42:47   so like for me it's Magic Tavern,

00:42:48   where I'm like 50 episodes back, 40 episodes back,

00:42:51   and so I will go in and I'll just tap,

00:42:54   you know, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo,

00:42:55   download these five, download these six

00:42:58   of whatever podcast I'm listening to,

00:43:00   going through the back catalog,

00:43:02   so I have those on the plane.

00:43:03   - Yeah, my all-time kind of plane show is The Flop House,

00:43:07   and I actually had a couple of episodes

00:43:11   that I was behind on, so I got to listen to.

00:43:13   - That's great.

00:43:15   - But also, I've mentioned this show on this show before,

00:43:20   and it's My Brother and My Brother and Me.

00:43:22   That's my show in which I'm going back, right?

00:43:25   Like you do with Hello. - You're dipping

00:43:26   into the back catalog.

00:43:27   - Yeah. - Yeah.

00:43:28   and it's just a light-hearted fun show,

00:43:30   it works for me on a plane,

00:43:32   'cause that tends to be most of what I can cope with

00:43:35   on planes.

00:43:36   - Yeah, my only problem with podcasts on a plane is it's,

00:43:40   I'm tired, I'm tired of these podcasts on this plane.

00:43:46   Exactly right.

00:43:48   That's a terrible movie, Podcasts on a Plane.

00:43:50   It's just people listening to podcasts.

00:43:52   It's really boring.

00:43:53   - Or recording shows of horrible sound quality.

00:43:56   My problem is that stimulates me auditorily,

00:44:00   but not visually.

00:44:02   So unless I'm staring out the window--

00:44:04   - Oh, would you should be playing an iPhone game

00:44:05   or something?

00:44:06   - That could be.

00:44:07   - Would I do that?

00:44:08   - So I don't do that as much, although I do it some

00:44:11   if I'm not in the mood.

00:44:12   Honestly, a lot of times it's like if I'm tired

00:44:14   and I don't want to use my eyes, I want to close my eyes,

00:44:18   they're dry 'cause they've been in a plane,

00:44:21   I haven't slept well, whatever the reasons,

00:44:24   podcasts are good in those circumstances

00:44:26   where I can kind of close my eyes and zone out

00:44:28   and just listen to the podcast.

00:44:29   - So listen to Close Your Eyes, unless you're driving.

00:44:32   Zone out, listen to our voices.

00:44:34   - Yes, we are. - It's time to rush

00:44:35   your dry eyes.

00:44:36   - Are you on an airplane now?

00:44:37   - We're talking directly to you.

00:44:39   - Airplane people, relax.

00:44:41   Play an iPhone game if you like.

00:44:43   Close your eyes. - Close your eyes.

00:44:44   - If you want to.

00:44:45   If you're driving, pay attention to the road.

00:44:48   - Pay more attention.

00:44:50   I, for movies, for me, and TV,

00:44:55   - I always go with the comfort food route

00:44:57   when it comes to planes.

00:44:58   - Yeah, you know I always have real genius

00:45:00   loaded on my phone.

00:45:00   - Do you?

00:45:01   - On my phone.

00:45:02   - On your phone.

00:45:03   - In case-- - For immediate need.

00:45:04   - In case I'm, it's like carrying,

00:45:06   I carry a bar of chocolate with me

00:45:08   when I go on a long trip, just like,

00:45:10   feeling you need some comfort.

00:45:12   There's a little chocolate for you,

00:45:14   and there's real genius.

00:45:17   - Godfather one and two.

00:45:18   Goodfellas.

00:45:20   - Okay.

00:45:22   - And Glengarry Glen Ross.

00:45:22   - Wow.

00:45:23   - Always on my iPad.

00:45:25   - You need some mob action, mob violence.

00:45:29   - Serious, just serious movies.

00:45:31   I don't know why, they're just movies that I love.

00:45:33   I just absolutely, I could just watch them

00:45:35   over and over and over again. - It's comfort food,

00:45:36   that's what it is.

00:45:37   - And also, I've been very slowly

00:45:40   going through Curb Your Enthusiasm.

00:45:42   It's a show Adina has no interest in watching,

00:45:44   even though she loves Seinfeld,

00:45:45   she just doesn't click for her.

00:45:48   And it's 'cause it is just like 30 minutes of awkward.

00:45:52   - Yeah. - And sometimes

00:45:53   can be painfully awkward and I've just been going through this show very

00:45:58   slowly and of course my another big huge source of entertainment for me right now

00:46:02   is video games. I mean I play a lot of iPhone games like threes and is remained

00:46:08   continuous and Altos adventure is another game that like

00:46:15   that continues to get a lot of play especially in these sort of scenarios

00:46:19   because they're very mindless and easy. And today on the train you were playing

00:46:23   what's it called? - Type Shift?

00:46:26   - Type Shift.

00:46:27   - Which is another great game.

00:46:28   I was playing that today.

00:46:29   That's a great game.

00:46:30   But I don't know if that's gonna be a timeless, right?

00:46:33   Like threes and like Alto's adventure,

00:46:35   but I continue to play those games very frequently,

00:46:38   and especially when I'm traveling.

00:46:39   Like these would be the games that I will play

00:46:41   whilst I'm listening to episodes of The Flop House.

00:46:44   - Nice.

00:46:45   - So I mean, I think, do you,

00:46:47   I mean you've been reading, right?

00:46:49   I mean I'm sure reading continues to be a big thing for you.

00:46:51   I read an entire novel on the flight here. What did you read? It's one of the Nebula

00:46:56   nominees and it's called Borderline. Okay. I wonder if I know who wrote it.

00:47:04   It's a, it's good, it's like a noir story about... It's a book in black and

00:47:12   white, huh? About fairy people who can cross over to Hollywood.

00:47:21   - Okay, this is kicking up a storm.

00:47:24   I'm so lost.

00:47:24   - No, it's interesting, 'cause it is written very noir-ish.

00:47:27   Technically, it's urban fantasy,

00:47:29   which is a genre that's very popular these days,

00:47:32   but I felt like that it doesn't fit

00:47:36   with my conception of urban fantasy,

00:47:37   because it feels more to me like a film noir

00:47:42   where it's about Hollywood,

00:47:45   and there's somebody who's missing,

00:47:48   and they're trying to find somebody,

00:47:50   And the person who's called is a kind of cranky, unpleasant person, like a noir detective.

00:47:58   And she has to find these.

00:48:00   But she's also then revealed to her as the fact that fairies are real and they're problematic

00:48:05   in many ways.

00:48:07   And there are issues and they're the secret creative power that's powering Hollywood.

00:48:11   And so there's a whole other layer of Hollywood over it.

00:48:14   It is Borderline by Michelle Baker.

00:48:16   And that was really great.

00:48:17   So I read that on the plane over here.

00:48:18   And on the way back I will probably read one of the other Nebula nominees, Nine Fox Gambit

00:48:25   or Everfair.

00:48:26   But Borderline.

00:48:27   It was good.

00:48:29   Really good.

00:48:30   Took up the whole plane.

00:48:31   Didn't need to watch a movie.

00:48:32   Had Borderline.

00:48:33   We've been talking quite a lot in the past, and you have, on Six Colors, about flight

00:48:38   tracking apps.

00:48:39   Oh yeah.

00:48:40   Because our favorite app went away, Flight Track.

00:48:44   you made a decision on which app you're using? Well, the one that I'm gravitating

00:48:51   to a lot is is called Flight Update Pro. Okay. It's not pretty, but it has all

00:49:04   the information in it. Okay. And so I like that one. I've tried App in the Air,

00:49:10   and it's a very beautiful full-featured app,

00:49:14   but it's also a subscription app,

00:49:16   and the subscription is priced for people

00:49:18   who basically are business travelers and fly all the time.

00:49:21   And I don't begrudge them that,

00:49:23   but it's not an app that I'm,

00:49:25   I'm not willing to pay the price

00:49:27   that they're asking for it.

00:49:28   So although it's a beautiful app,

00:49:30   I'm not gonna subscribe or,

00:49:34   I think you can unlock all the features forever

00:49:36   for like 50 bucks or something,

00:49:38   and it's just like, I'm not gonna do that.

00:49:40   That's, it's not enough of me.

00:49:42   I am trying some others.

00:49:44   Kayak is okay.

00:49:48   Tripit is okay.

00:49:53   Tripcase is okay.

00:49:54   I've got more work to do here,

00:49:56   and I'll probably, when I get home,

00:49:57   I'll kind of try to wrap it up

00:49:58   and do some more testing too.

00:50:00   But it's funny, the one I've been gravitating to

00:50:03   is FlightAware, or FlightUpdate Pro,

00:50:06   because it's pretty straightforward.

00:50:10   It's got all my whole trip,

00:50:12   even though I'm using two different tickets

00:50:14   on two different airlines

00:50:15   'cause I had a flight in the middle from Glasgow to Dublin,

00:50:18   it's all in there in one place and it's got all my details.

00:50:22   And so I feel like it's the best one so far.

00:50:26   - I'm using App in the Air.

00:50:28   I paid for like, I think you get like six months

00:50:31   or something. - Yeah.

00:50:32   - And it's like $20.

00:50:33   It's not cheap.

00:50:35   I pay for a year, which is like $30 or something.

00:50:40   I like it a lot.

00:50:41   - It's good.

00:50:42   - Because it's a stupid amount of money

00:50:45   to pay for a single app that all it's doing is this,

00:50:48   I mean, it's not, apps can be that price,

00:50:51   but it doesn't really do a ton for what you do.

00:50:55   Like, I'm used to paying that kind of amount of money

00:50:58   for an application that the Omni group make.

00:51:00   - If I was flying all the time,

00:51:02   I would feel different about it.

00:51:03   is because I fly a lot.

00:51:05   And that's who-- and you know what?

00:51:06   The fact is great flight tracking apps are going out

00:51:09   of business because they were bought in the case of Mobiata,

00:51:14   who did Flight Track Pro.

00:51:16   But the business model is a question, right?

00:51:19   They need to develop these things,

00:51:21   and they need to have access to the data,

00:51:22   and they need to do all of the stuff they need to do.

00:51:24   So I don't begrudge them--

00:51:26   and there's a business traveler market for App in the Air.

00:51:28   So it's actually good for them that they're doing it.

00:51:31   And you can see the results.

00:51:32   It looks very good.

00:51:33   they take a lot of care with it. It's just that I don't think I can prioritize it because

00:51:37   I don't fly enough to do that.

00:51:39   Oh, I should mention, because we did get some feedback about this, that I always pooh-poohed

00:51:46   the idea of using airline apps because in the early days the airline apps were awful,

00:51:54   but I have to give it to them. I downloaded some airline apps for this trip and also for

00:52:02   another airline that I use frequently,

00:52:05   and they're a lot better.

00:52:07   If you're on an airline, it probably benefits you,

00:52:11   even if you have another app,

00:52:12   it benefits you to have the airlines app

00:52:15   because they will send you push notifications,

00:52:18   they will send you change information,

00:52:21   and it's often where you can stash your boarding pass

00:52:23   if it's not in wallet.

00:52:25   So I had the United Airlines app on this trip

00:52:27   and it was not bad.

00:52:30   I don't know if I would rely on it on its own, but it was, that was a good tip that

00:52:35   I had just written them all off and they were actually worth downloading.

00:52:40   Yeah, I, the airlines I tend to fly with the most are British Airways, Virgin and Delta,

00:52:48   and all of their apps are, I think they were built on the same platform, honestly.

00:52:53   Yeah.

00:52:54   I think someone's made a platform.

00:52:55   And there's a white label for airlines, yeah.

00:52:58   But it's good.

00:52:59   It's good.

00:53:00   BA's was a good app and Virgin's was terrible and then they changed it and they started

00:53:04   to look very similar. But now they, I find them fine. This is Virgin Atlantic. And yeah

00:53:12   they do what I want them to do. That app in the air, it's expensive app. I want to pay

00:53:17   it because I want the features that it has. Like the real time notifications and just

00:53:23   a lot of the stuff that it does is things that I want and using it on this trip I feel

00:53:28   you have indicated in my decision

00:53:29   'cause it's the app I'm looking for.

00:53:31   - Yeah.

00:53:32   - For me, it's a good replacement

00:53:34   and enhancement on FlightTrack.

00:53:35   'Cause it's doing everything FlightTrack was doing

00:53:37   and it also offers some extras as well

00:53:39   and it has good customization.

00:53:40   It has some tools that I don't want,

00:53:42   like it can automatically check you in for flights,

00:53:44   but I just don't want it to do that.

00:53:46   But it really is focused around people

00:53:49   that take more than one or two trips a year.

00:53:52   And you know, I keep saying this,

00:53:56   But I'm gonna be taking eight or nine airplanes in April.

00:54:00   I'm gonna be taking eight or nine flights in April.

00:54:03   - After your year with it, you'll know.

00:54:04   - Yeah.

00:54:05   - If you look at the price and go,

00:54:08   "Oh, do I really wanna pay again?"

00:54:09   - Exactly. - Or if you say,

00:54:10   "Yeah, got it." - No brainer, right?

00:54:12   - Yeah. - Then I'll know.

00:54:14   But that's the one that I've gravitated towards.

00:54:16   - It looks like it's the best one.

00:54:18   My frustration with it is the price,

00:54:21   and also it seems like I think I have to,

00:54:25   I think I could sign up and it's a trial and then they'll charge me but it's one of those

00:54:28   things where, yeah.

00:54:29   It's the standard Apple 14 day but like the, you know, the cancelling is better but still

00:54:33   not great, you know.

00:54:35   Yeah.

00:54:37   What would you like to see improved upon to kind of make travelling better?

00:54:41   For me, one that jumps out is USB-C. The rising of USB-C for me makes things a lot better

00:54:51   because, you know, I think about most of the technology that I bring with me on a trip.

00:54:56   If USB-C could make it to iOS devices, it'd be the only cable I would ever need. And I

00:55:01   would be, I would like that, to not have to be like, "Did I have such and such cable?

00:55:06   Did I have X cable? Did I have Y cable?" It's just like, bring a bunch of cables,

00:55:10   they're all the same. I like the idea of that.

00:55:13   Yeah, it's going to be a long time before USB-C is common because USB-A is so common.

00:55:19   we still have hotels with dock connector radios and things, right?

00:55:23   The one I'm looking at right now has both a dock connector, a lightning, and micro USB,

00:55:29   so this hotel is with the times.

00:55:31   That's actually pretty impressive, because most of the hotels I stay at still have the

00:55:35   dock connectors. They got burned, they aren't going to reinvest in their hardware, so it'll

00:55:40   be a while. USB-A, the nice thing is, we'll have adapters or converters or something,

00:55:47   and we'll get there eventually.

00:55:50   But I agree with that.

00:55:51   I think that one of the nice things about the fact

00:55:56   that basically all electronic devices charge on USB is

00:56:00   airlines started to add power plugs

00:56:06   and now they seem to have converted

00:56:08   where they are embracing USB, which is better

00:56:12   because especially if you're flying between countries,

00:56:14   everybody's USB plug is the same.

00:56:16   - Yeah, exactly.

00:56:17   - Instead of having to adapt it.

00:56:19   And they're small so that you can put them,

00:56:23   more than one of them in a place.

00:56:25   You know, you put two or three in the same place

00:56:28   that you put one of your enormous UK plugs, right?

00:56:32   - Safe UK plugs.

00:56:33   - Yeah, it's safe and enormous.

00:56:35   - Safe.

00:56:36   - So, and enormous.

00:56:37   Anyway, yes, so that would be,

00:56:42   the more USB the better, I think, in general.

00:56:45   USB-C will get there eventually but just having USB would be everywhere.

00:56:48   Adam: And also as a man who lost his wallet six days before he was going to be taking

00:56:54   international travel.

00:56:55   I had to get all the cards replaced and ID replaced.

00:57:00   I can't believe that our money has died behind these pieces of plastic that could

00:57:05   be lost.

00:57:06   I find it just started to make me think about the fact that we still don't have a real

00:57:13   kind of digital lifestyle in this way like Apple pay is great but it's still

00:57:19   tied to your card it's still tied to a card it still doesn't work everywhere

00:57:23   and it's still limited by price what do you think a bank would one day will do

00:57:28   a like an Apple pay credit card that look they literally never send you a

00:57:32   card there's no reason why they couldn't all they need to do is generate a number

00:57:35   it doesn't need a car but they do yeah like I know that it's tricky because of

00:57:42   of things like the numbers on the back, the CCV numbers and stuff, but you could work

00:57:47   around that.

00:57:48   Sure.

00:57:49   But my thinking is just, why doesn't my bank just have an app which is this payment app

00:57:54   which ties into Apple Pay?

00:57:56   That's all I ever do.

00:57:57   And I know there's so many things about the system that are not built for this, but it's

00:58:02   crazy to me that I can lose my wallet and then I have no money.

00:58:07   But think about it, you could lose your wallet but you still had Apple Pay.

00:58:11   I did, which was great, but then I had to cancel my card and I couldn't use Apple

00:58:15   Pay.

00:58:16   That hasn't happened to me.

00:58:18   When I've done it, they've sent me a new card and my Apple Pay has continued to work.

00:58:22   It is dependent on bank implementation.

00:58:25   So they changed the number of my card.

00:58:27   They don't always do this.

00:58:29   Because I lost it, they changed the number.

00:58:32   And depending on how a bank implements Apple Pay, I'll dig in on this, there's different

00:58:36   ways you can implement it and it can be that if the number is changed on the card, the

00:58:41   long card number, which doesn't usually change when you have a typical renewal, it will cut

00:58:46   the support. So my Apple Pay support was cut when my card was cut so I had no access to

00:58:52   money and it just made me think like, it is just surprising to me that we still have our

00:59:02   money tied behind these little pieces of plastic. It just seems strange.

00:59:08   Time to live the cash only lifestyle, Myke. Just cash, cash, cash.

00:59:11   That's going in the wrong direction, Jason. Cash it in now.

00:59:14   You're not doing this correctly. That's the wrong direction. It was good that we

00:59:19   weren't from cash to cards, but now we need to go from cards to cash.

00:59:23   Back to cash. God, no. I think we have to move on. I think it's

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01:00:28   because I want to feel good when I'm traveling.

01:00:31   I want to feel good on my daily moving around the place.

01:00:34   And Mac Weldon is great for that.

01:00:35   If you were to look at my suitcase, but don't.

01:00:39   I'm not going to.

01:00:39   It's private.

01:00:40   But there's Mac Weldon in there.

01:00:42   Excellent.

01:00:42   I will trust you.

01:00:43   Thank you.

01:00:44   Not only do Mac Weldon's underwear, socks, and shirts

01:00:47   look good, they perform well.

01:00:48   Listeners of this show can get 20% off at macweldon.com.

01:00:52   That's M-A-C-K-W-E-L-D-O-N dot com by using the code

01:00:57   upgrade for that 20% off. Thank you so much to Mack Weldon for their support of this show

01:01:01   and Relay FM.

01:01:02   Time for Ask Upgrade, Jason Snell. Thank you so much for the laser accompaniment. Robert

01:01:07   asks, "What is Jason's preferred Blu-ray ripping method and equipment used?"

01:01:15   Well, I'll reference a post that I wrote a couple of years ago on six colors that maybe

01:01:19   we can put in the show notes.

01:01:20   Of course it will be in the show notes.

01:01:21   is about how I rip Blu-rays and I go into all the details. I bought a Blu-ray USB drive.

01:01:29   The post is quite literally called "How I Rip DVDs and Blu-rays."

01:01:33   Yeah, oh that's it. And it's got a link to the drive that I bought on Amazon for, I don't know,

01:01:39   $50. It's a USB Blu-ray drive and I use MakeMKV as the name of the software that extracts Blu-ray

01:01:47   and turns it into a giant MKV file.

01:01:50   And then you can either use Handbrake at that point,

01:01:53   or you can use Don Melton's transcoding scripts,

01:01:55   which are a little harder to set up.

01:01:57   And if you're afraid of the command line, like Myke--

01:01:59   Hello.

01:02:00   --don't do that.

01:02:01   But Don has done a lot of work with presets

01:02:05   to make the best trade-offs.

01:02:07   But you can also just use Handbrake at that point

01:02:09   and point it at the MKV file and do it.

01:02:12   And I still do it that way.

01:02:14   And then at that point, I put it on my server

01:02:17   and it's on Plex and I can watch it on my TVs or my devices wherever I want.

01:02:22   Yeah, if I have ever ripped a DVD or whatever, I do it via Handbrake.

01:02:28   Yeah, and Handbrake doesn't do Blu-ray directly, basically, so you use MakeMKV, which is not

01:02:35   free, although it may be free to try, but it will do the job of pulling out the video

01:02:42   file and that's what I do because I prefer in general, I'll play a Blu-ray from time

01:02:47   to time but our Blu-ray player is our Xbox and so you know you start up the Xbox and

01:02:53   then you have to launch the player and it's got unconventional controls because it's

01:02:57   a game system and it's not my preferred way. I actually would rather rip that Blu-ray

01:03:01   and then just watch it on Plex. Ben has been looking all over. He's done

01:03:07   "He's done his research and he's coming to you because he cannot find the answer to his

01:03:12   question. Ben wants to put his photos library on multiple Macs without iCloud. Is this possible?"

01:03:21   If you have a server or some device running with like an AFP, like a standard Apple kind

01:03:32   of server connection and I think it's going to be an HFS volume connect by the

01:03:37   AFP maybe SMB will work too. Basically if all those things are right you should be

01:03:43   able to open that library over the network but it's gonna be really slow

01:03:47   unless you're like on a gigabit network and all your computers are wired but if

01:03:51   you're over Wi-Fi and it's a big network or a big library it's gonna be really

01:03:54   slow. So it's not really made to do this outside of iCloud that's sort of the

01:04:00   the point of it. Can you save the location of the library in a cloud storage solution?

01:04:08   The location of the library? Because the library it's pulling from, like, it's a file, isn't

01:04:12   it? It's like a big bundle file. Well, yeah, it's a package with all the files in it. So

01:04:16   you have to put that somewhere where photos can read it and photos want it to be... So

01:04:20   could you put it in Dropbox for instance? No. Okay. It has to be... And I don't, yeah,

01:04:24   that's a bad idea. Okay. Because then it would sync it, but they'd get out of sync and that

01:04:27   That would be incredibly bad.

01:04:29   I don't recommend it.

01:04:30   - Do not follow Myke's advice.

01:04:31   - No, you can't do that.

01:04:33   So I'd say, I hate to say it,

01:04:35   the other solution here is to buy a big hard drive

01:04:37   and put it on the hard drive

01:04:38   and connect it to the computer you want to.

01:04:41   And that'll be the fastest of all these solutions.

01:04:43   Just walk it around.

01:04:45   But Photos, the app, is not made to do this

01:04:48   because they want you to use iCloud.

01:04:52   And if the alternative is to use some other system,

01:04:56   But yeah, so there are ways, but they're not ideal.

01:05:00   OK.

01:05:01   O-Plays asked, do you buy the cellular and Wi-Fi iPads,

01:05:05   or just the Wi-Fi only ones?

01:05:09   My current iPad is a cellular plus Wi-Fi.

01:05:11   I think I wrote a six colors piece about this too.

01:05:14   Of course you did.

01:05:14   Of course you did.

01:05:16   Well, you got to use all the parts of the Buffalo.

01:05:18   So yeah, my rationale was that I wanted it

01:05:22   for kind of flexibility, since this was the iPad Pro,

01:05:25   I expected to use it for a while. And since it's kind of unlocked, it gives me the flexibility

01:05:29   to – I have the T-Mobile deal where I get 250 megs or something of free data every month.

01:05:36   It's not a lot, but there's a little bit there.

01:05:39   I signed up for that actually.

01:05:40   And the reality is I basically never use the cellular features on it. And I have it. It's

01:05:47   like that range anxiety we're talking about. I am almost never in a place where I don't

01:05:52   Wi-Fi and am using an iPad. If I'm at a cafe, they have Wi-Fi. So it very rarely happens.

01:06:03   I thought about it that if I had it, I might use it in places like cafes where the Wi-Fi

01:06:08   is poor. I might use the cellular instead and not bother with the cafe Wi-Fi and not

01:06:14   get frustrated by it. But if that had happened enough, I would have done that by now. It

01:06:19   It would take one call to AT&T and $10 a month to put this on my AT&T plan and I haven't

01:06:25   done that either.

01:06:26   So I've got it and I've got it sort of for safety and comfort but in reality, I don't

01:06:32   use it.

01:06:33   Adam: So my travel iPad, my 9.7 is cellular, my other one isn't.

01:06:40   And the reason I bought the Wi-Fi and the 12.9 is I wasn't sure if I was going to

01:06:44   like that device when I bought it.

01:06:45   I was interested in it but I wasn't in the iPad camp that I'm in now and that's

01:06:52   fine because that device stays at home right so it doesn't need it but the 9.7

01:06:56   it comes out with me and I use it whenever whenever I travel I use the

01:07:00   Celia on that thing because most of the places I go to in the US is faster and

01:07:04   so I get the T-Mobile because I have a T-Mobile account and so I get that right so I

01:07:10   sign up and I have a US T-Mobile account because I have a US T-Mobile SIM for my phone

01:07:14   - And then it's easy to buy more data from T-Mobile,

01:07:18   which is why we give you the free.

01:07:19   - Or anywhere.

01:07:20   I use this all over the world,

01:07:22   because you could just use,

01:07:23   I have an Apple SIM in there,

01:07:25   so I can just buy anything.

01:07:28   Any plan for like a set period of time.

01:07:31   - In fact, I thought about doing that here in Ireland,

01:07:33   and I haven't done it,

01:07:34   but I've thought about the same thing, right?

01:07:36   You just, with the Apple SIM,

01:07:38   you just turn it on and see what you get

01:07:40   and what the deals are. - If you travel,

01:07:41   I think you should get the cellular.

01:07:44   - Yeah, for me it's just that I always have my phone

01:07:46   with me in those circumstances,

01:07:48   and so it's generally not a big deal.

01:07:50   - Tethering is good and I tether a lot,

01:07:53   but I also like having my own connection with the--

01:07:57   - Yeah, I'd use it more. - 'Cause then I'm draining

01:07:59   the batteries of both devices, right?

01:08:01   - Yeah, I see it, and I would use it more.

01:08:03   I mean, I would use it if I had it,

01:08:05   but it just hasn't escalated at the point

01:08:07   where I thought I need to do this.

01:08:09   - Yep, that makes sense.

01:08:11   Dave asked, "Given the success of Amazon's Echo,

01:08:14   "do you think that they would make

01:08:16   "another attempt at a phone?"

01:08:18   If you remember, they made a phone called the Fire Phone.

01:08:21   I don't think that these two things go together.

01:08:24   The Echo's success

01:08:27   is not a story that's easy to tell,

01:08:32   because they may have sold 150,000 of those,

01:08:36   for all we know.

01:08:36   - There's just a chart.

01:08:37   - Because they don't talk about it.

01:08:38   - That's right.

01:08:39   - The success that we refer to is how people that use it

01:08:43   feel about it, and a lot of people that own one

01:08:45   really like it.

01:08:47   Does that translate into other people buying them?

01:08:49   We have literally no idea right now.

01:08:51   - And phones are just entirely different devices.

01:08:54   - It's a completely different thing.

01:08:55   - In fact, you're seeing Android phone makers

01:08:57   talking with Amazon about integrating the Echo technology,

01:09:02   the lady in the canister, into their devices.

01:09:05   - Which makes a lot of sense.

01:09:08   So does Amazon really want to build hardware

01:09:11   that's a vehicle for this?

01:09:13   - They failed so hard with that Fire Phone.

01:09:16   - They could try, they could scale it back, right?

01:09:17   They could do something that was an Amazon phone

01:09:19   that's stock, you know, that's,

01:09:23   'cause Amazon's not out of the Android business, right?

01:09:25   The Fire tablets and the Fire TV are all Android-based.

01:09:30   So they could do a new Fire Phone

01:09:33   that is much more stock Android-like,

01:09:37   much more much less like 3d cameras and super weird and integrate this

01:09:44   technology this voice technology I think it's possible I'm sure they're

01:09:49   prototyping stuff like that all the time because it's not like they have they

01:09:52   have a custom version of Android that has their own App Store it would not be

01:09:57   it would not be a lot for them to do this and now they have their their

01:10:00   voice agent but I would say that it would learn the lessons of the fire

01:10:04   and be a much more understandable normal phone.

01:10:07   And then they would use the power of Amazon, right?

01:10:10   They'd use their ability to, you know,

01:10:12   maybe it's got a, for Prime members,

01:10:15   there are features that it has.

01:10:16   Maybe if you're a Prime member,

01:10:17   you pay very little for your service or something,

01:10:21   and it's a weird reselling.

01:10:23   I don't know.

01:10:24   It's possible, I guess, I would say,

01:10:26   but it's not gonna be, it's not gonna be a Fire phone.

01:10:28   And I do think that they got burned a little bit.

01:10:32   - I think so. - By the Fire Phone.

01:10:35   - Oh. - Yeah.

01:10:36   And so I think they're gonna be a little more careful.

01:10:40   - Finally today, Brent asked,

01:10:41   "Do you think that the new modular Mac Pro

01:10:44   "will be previewed at WWDC or the fall event

01:10:46   "like the trash can was?"

01:10:48   Brent, I think it's too early.

01:10:50   I think WWDC 2018 will be the first time

01:10:53   we see anything about this product.

01:10:55   - Yeah, you may be right, 'cause the idea here,

01:10:57   most people seem to believe that this is a relatively

01:11:01   this is a relatively recent decision on Apple's part.

01:11:04   - Yeah, like it's from everything I'm hearing and seeing,

01:11:08   like it was maybe a matter of weeks

01:11:11   from when this thing became an actual thing

01:11:13   before we found out about it.

01:11:14   - What they said was that they said they made this decision,

01:11:16   they didn't make this decision this year,

01:11:19   but if that's true, I would say it happened in December,

01:11:22   because it has not been very long,

01:11:24   and I've heard that it's been a much more recent decision

01:11:26   than that from some places. - It's like they maybe,

01:11:28   I think Apple's being careful

01:11:30   about the way they're talking about it.

01:11:31   I think they began thinking about if the Mac Pro was going to live again, maybe about four

01:11:37   or five months ago, but the actual, like, "Do we have a product we can make?"

01:11:42   I think that has been a very recent decision.

01:11:43   And it takes a long time to make a new product, so if they only now are discussing what the

01:11:47   new product is going to be, I think we'd all like them to do sort of a crash course

01:11:52   here and get it out quickly, but it's going to be next year, and so, you know what?

01:11:58   I don't see them showing a Mac Pro at the iPhone event, right?

01:12:01   I don't think it's going to happen.

01:12:03   So more likely they will…

01:12:05   You're right.

01:12:06   I think if I had to say what the most likely time that Apple would show a new Mac Pro,

01:12:13   it would be WWDC 2018.

01:12:16   I agree.

01:12:17   I think that's fine.

01:12:18   Yeah.

01:12:19   I mean, Mac Pro buyers want it sooner.

01:12:21   They'll want it January 1st.

01:12:23   But that's not going to happen.

01:12:25   - The iMac, I think the iMac will fill a gap

01:12:28   for a lot of people, but we need to see that soon.

01:12:32   - Yeah, what's that new iMac and what's that iMac Pro style,

01:12:37   the higher end iMac, we'll see.

01:12:38   - What's that gonna look like?

01:12:39   And I think that's gonna help a lot of people.

01:12:41   And at least they may show in this announcement

01:12:44   a renewed commitment that makes Mac Pro owners happy.

01:12:49   They may be show something which is like,

01:12:51   ah, there you go.

01:12:53   that's the type of thing we want to see, right?

01:12:55   And that may help kind of keep the goodwill going

01:12:58   with the idea that Apple knows

01:13:00   and maybe we'll give updates, you know,

01:13:02   to say, "Hey, we're still working on it."

01:13:04   And this is the type of thing we're thinking about.

01:13:06   But I think it would be from a goodwill perspective,

01:13:09   like the biggest bang for your buck,

01:13:11   the place you do this is at WWDC.

01:13:13   You've got all those people in the room,

01:13:15   you got some whooping and some hollering,

01:13:17   'cause that's not gonna happen anywhere else.

01:13:19   But it will happen at WWDC.

01:13:22   And if they can get a product out before then,

01:13:23   I'll be surprised, right?

01:13:25   Like, this stuff takes a long time.

01:13:27   - It takes a long time.

01:13:28   - It's not, this isn't a quick thing,

01:13:30   especially if they are, they are starting from scratch.

01:13:34   - And if you listen to, which people showed

01:13:35   the excellent ATP from last week,

01:13:37   they went through the list of things this needs to do,

01:13:42   and I would say, think back to the Power Mac G5.

01:13:47   The Power Mac G5 enclosure

01:13:50   was also the Mac Pro enclosure until the trash can.

01:13:54   That was a decade long enclosure.

01:13:59   And it varied on the inside.

01:14:02   They did some different things in different models,

01:14:04   but they built something to last

01:14:07   and be a platform for different technologies

01:14:11   to come in and out, to have different kind of airflow

01:14:15   systems all still running sort of front to back.

01:14:20   And they had the water cooling at one point,

01:14:22   and they changed processor architectures

01:14:24   but kept the device the same on the outside.

01:14:28   I would think that if Apple's going

01:14:31   to pay all this attention to the Mac Pro this time, when it

01:14:35   really--

01:14:36   obviously, large parts of Apple don't want it

01:14:39   and don't think that it's going to be the best return

01:14:41   on the investment, but it's something they need to do.

01:14:45   Well, if you're going to design it--

01:14:47   and I'm managing that.

01:14:48   I'm gonna say, "Design me something

01:14:50   "that's gonna last me 10 years

01:14:51   "that is as flexible as possible.

01:14:54   "Put in the work now so we don't ever have to work

01:14:56   "on this thing again in the big picture for a decade.

01:14:58   "And we'll tinker around the margins after this,

01:15:01   "but this is your shot to get something,

01:15:03   "and I want it to not,

01:15:05   "I want you not to come back to me in three years and say,

01:15:07   "Oh, we didn't anticipate this thing.

01:15:10   "Anticipate all the things."

01:15:11   - This is, this should be the last one, right?

01:15:16   Because if you imagine in 10 years time,

01:15:19   it's very likely that technology's moving

01:15:22   in a different direction that we can't anticipate.

01:15:24   - So approach it that way.

01:15:25   Take your time.

01:15:26   And my point is, if you're gonna do that,

01:15:29   you're not gonna slap something together in six months.

01:15:31   - And it's not gonna be a triangle.

01:15:33   - And it's not gonna be a triangle.

01:15:35   Triangles are scary, they'll kill you.

01:15:36   Stay away from triangles, go back to squares.

01:15:38   - You hear what I mean?

01:15:39   I would be very surprised if we get a whiz-bang-dazzle machine.

01:15:44   - No, I think it'll have a sleek case

01:15:47   with some curves and things. - It will look beautiful.

01:15:49   - But in the end, it's gonna be a box

01:15:51   with a computer in it. - You will see that

01:15:52   a lot of function won out of a form

01:15:54   in the overall industrial design.

01:15:56   - I feel like-- - Which is the right way to go.

01:15:59   - In fact, I feel like the story here

01:16:00   is ultimately going to be that story,

01:16:02   which is people who thought even the Mac Pro

01:16:04   should have consumer things applied to it,

01:16:06   which is we're gonna do wacky stuff

01:16:08   that's right at the edge of tolerances

01:16:10   and make this trash can Mac.

01:16:14   They want out over the people who are like, "You know what?"

01:16:16   People like Marco and John who say, "You know what we really want is you to update

01:16:20   the chips every year with the fastest chips possible, and that's all we really care

01:16:23   about."

01:16:24   This decision seems to be finally an understanding within Apple that that is the right approach,

01:16:30   that that is the way to do it, that the pro market doesn't need to follow consumer rules.

01:16:35   It needs to be served.

01:16:36   But it may take some time for them to get that final product out because I do think

01:16:41   they need to do it right, not just do it fast.

01:16:44   Let me do my best Johnny Ive here.

01:16:47   We see designers more than just on the outside.

01:16:51   Design is on the inside too.

01:16:53   And then he opens the case, right?

01:16:55   And they show all the wonder that sits inside of the Mac Pro.

01:16:59   But there'll still be a curved something or a funny something and all that.

01:17:02   And they'll say, "Look, it has flourished."

01:17:05   Yes.

01:17:06   Chamfered cases.

01:17:07   Once you see the rose gold of the new Mac Pro.

01:17:11   Yeah, that's what I want. That's how you get me to buy one. Put it in rose gold.

01:17:16   I think that wraps it up for this week.

01:17:19   I think so. It's been a pleasure to have two upgrades in person with you.

01:17:22   I know. We'll do it again before the end of the year.

01:17:26   Certainly in June, right?

01:17:27   June. Maybe in August.

01:17:29   Maybe if I come to Memphis for Relay Host Con.

01:17:34   Members in Memphis. We'll see. But yeah, thank you so much for listening to this week's episode

01:17:39   of upgrade. If you want to send in Ask Upgrade questions, just tweet at us with #AskUpgrade

01:17:44   and we'll answer your questions at the end of the show. If you have a small talk topic

01:17:49   that you would like me to discuss with Jason, #SNELtalk.

01:17:51   Thank you. Small talk, you're confusing it. They're going to give you a #smalltalk.

01:17:56   Well that's going to go to somebody else. That's nothing to do with me.

01:17:58   Okay, that's to Jason Small. Questions, Ask Upgrade, small talk is SNELtalk.

01:18:02   Okay, good. I see what you're doing there.

01:18:05   I'm phrasing, I'm making sure the questions are diverged.

01:18:08   We're in sync now.

01:18:09   want people to ask me what do you think about the Mac Pro in Snell Talk. That's what that's

01:18:12   for. It's like, you know, how's the baseball season? I'll just say it's good. It's good.

01:18:18   The Mac Pro's doing great. I've seen it, it's lovely, and then we just move on. It's just

01:18:22   small talk, so we're not going to get into details. If you want to find Jason online,

01:18:26   he's at Sixcolors.com. If you want to go to find more of his shows, they're over at The

01:18:31   Incomparable. Of course he has many more, and Relay FM as well. We're going to be recording

01:18:35   - I'm doing Clockwise live at all,

01:18:36   and we'll be doing that in person.

01:18:37   I'm gonna be taking the place of Dan Moran for the day.

01:18:42   If you wanna find Jason in person for the next 48 hours,

01:18:48   he's in the EuroPoto on Killarney in Ireland.

01:18:50   - I hope you're in Killarney, otherwise you won't find me.

01:18:52   - You can find him in, I don't know, after the secret word.

01:18:55   What's the secret word this time?

01:18:58   - Pineapple.

01:18:58   - Pineapple, say pineapple, and we got a sticker for you.

01:19:01   - Oh, nice.

01:19:02   - I got some stickers.

01:19:03   - You got the stickers.

01:19:03   - Pineapple the mic.

01:19:06   - If you're here, if you're at the Europe

01:19:07   and you say pineapple, say pineapple sticker

01:19:10   'cause then I'll remember 'cause last year

01:19:11   we said banana, people keep saying banana to me,

01:19:14   I had no idea why they were saying it to me.

01:19:16   - No, you could do it at home.

01:19:17   - And I will give you some stickers.

01:19:18   And I'm online, I'm @imike, I-M-Y-K-E.

01:19:22   Thanks again to our lovely sponsors of this week's episode,

01:19:25   The Fine Folkover at Encapsular Squarespace and Mac Weldon.

01:19:29   But most of all, thank you for listening

01:19:31   and we'll be back next time.

01:19:33   Say goodbye, Jason Snow. Goodbye, Myke Hurley.

01:19:35   [Music]

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