Upgrade

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music]

00:00:08 ◼   ► From Relay FM, this is Upgrade episode 134. Today's show is brought to you by Encapsula,

00:00:15 ◼   ► Text Expander from Smile, and Squarespace. My name is Myke Hurley and I am joined by Jason Snell.

00:00:21 ◼   ► Hello, Jason Snell.

00:00:22 ◼   ► Hello, Myke Hurley.

00:00:24 ◼   ► Last week on the show, I decided that I would like to try and introduce a new segment to

00:00:30 ◼   ► open upgrade every week in which we go through a different small talk question with you.

00:00:37 ◼   ► As I mentioned on the show, usually the show opens with you telling me how the weather

00:00:42 ◼   ► is or by telling me that it's Monday.

00:00:45 ◼   ► Or something that happened over the weekend, which I totally have a story about this weekend,

00:00:49 ◼   ► but yes, it tends to be the same thing, which is I say, like today I would say, it's sunny

00:00:53 ◼   ► and the sky is blue, so much better than last week.

00:00:55 ◼   ► But do people wanna hear the local San Francisco forecast

00:00:59 ◼   ► for a day that has already passed

00:01:01 ◼   ► by the time you're listening to this podcast?

00:01:03 ◼   ► - I don't think so. - Maybe, but probably not.

00:01:05 ◼   ► - Unless they're your next-door neighbor.

00:01:07 ◼   ► But anyway, we're veering off course already.

00:01:10 ◼   ► But so we are now going to institute a new segment.

00:01:14 ◼   ► It is a small talk segment,

00:01:15 ◼   ► and so I have decided to call this segment #SNELtalk.

00:01:19 ◼   ► That is the new name of this segment.

00:01:22 ◼   ► - It's just fine.

00:01:23 ◼   ► And so you can send me questions to ask Jason in the Snail Talk segment, which will open

00:01:29 ◼   ► the show with the hashtag SnailTalk, and they will be questions like this, which was submitted

00:01:35 ◼   ► by Bozy.

00:01:36 ◼   ► Jason, what did you have for breakfast today?

00:01:39 ◼   ► Well, not to bring us back to English muffins, which we already talked about on a previous

00:01:44 ◼   ► show, but I had an English muffin with peanut butter and blackberry jelly on it.

00:01:50 ◼   ► I'm sure that would be very nice.

00:01:52 ◼   ► And it was actually, because I put it in the toaster right after my son toasted his toast

00:01:57 ◼   ► for the morning, it kind of burned.

00:02:00 ◼   ► So the whole house smells a little burny.

00:02:02 ◼   ► But it was still good.

00:02:03 ◼   ► It was just extra crunchy.

00:02:06 ◼   ► So if you would like to send in a question for us to open the show, use the hashtag #SnellTalk

00:02:11 ◼   ► on Twitter and it will go into a lovely spreadsheet and then I will be able to ask them to Jason.

00:02:16 ◼   ► And don't spoil me with them.

00:02:18 ◼   ► Don't include me on them.

00:02:19 ◼   ► I don't want to know.

00:02:20 ◼   ► I want it to be a surprise.

00:02:21 ◼   ► tweet them to me or just tweet them into the wild as long as you use the hashtag, I will

00:02:26 ◼   ► find them. Thank you very much to Bozy for suggesting that we would like to know what

00:02:30 ◼   ► Jason had for breakfast. It is follow up time, Mr Snell. You will remember we have been tracking

00:02:35 ◼   ► a story for a while, or at least I have and you've been reluctantly coming along on this

00:02:39 ◼   ► ride with me, which is about Amazon Prime Air, which is Amazon's drone delivery. Well,

00:02:46 ◼   ► During the past couple of days Amazon Prime Air made its first US drone delivery. If you

00:02:52 ◼   ► remember last year they completed the first ever in the UK. And at a conference called

00:02:57 ◼   ► Mars 2017 which stands for Machine Learning, Automation, Robotics and Space Exploration.

00:03:04 ◼   ► I'm sure this has been on your radar because of lift off. It has a fitting name and space

00:03:10 ◼   ► exploration is somehow involved. This drone was set off to deliver a conference goer some

00:03:17 ◼   ► sunscreen to actually make this project a reality in the US outside of the Mars conference.

00:03:25 ◼   ► Amazon still needs FAA approval and regulation stuff. And apparently this demo was completed

00:03:32 ◼   ► with the FAA's assistance. So there has been an Amazon Prime Air drone delivery in the

00:03:37 ◼   ► United States of America.

00:03:39 ◼   ► USA, USA, USA.

00:03:42 ◼   ► - Mm-hmm, something like that.

00:03:44 ◼   ► - Did I do that right?

00:03:45 ◼   ► - I think so, I think, ask Casey, he's good at that.

00:03:48 ◼   ► - All right.

00:03:50 ◼   ► - Last week on the show as well,

00:03:51 ◼   ► we spoke about our home screens.

00:03:53 ◼   ► We have been receiving lots of home screens,

00:03:56 ◼   ► as was predicted, but Seth wanted to know

00:04:00 ◼   ► what widgets we use.

00:04:02 ◼   ► So I said, okay, Seth, well, I'm saying,

00:04:04 ◼   ► okay, Seth, right now, we'll tell Seth and tell the world.

00:04:08 ◼   ► I'll run through my widgets.

00:04:09 ◼   ► I'm going to put some links in the show notes to some of these applications because they

00:04:12 ◼   ► are cool apps and they have cool widgets. I use the workflow widget. I use that to trigger

00:04:18 ◼   ► off a lot of things including my timers. Of course we're going to talk about workflow

00:04:22 ◼   ► a little later on in the show. FantasticOwl for my calendar, I use Todoist as well in

00:04:28 ◼   ► the widgets so I can see what's coming up in the day. I have the Hue widget there. I

00:04:31 ◼   ► tend to use the HomeKit Control Center stuff but I have the Hue widget there in case I

00:04:36 ◼   ► they need it because you can turn on scenes and stuff like that.

00:04:39 ◼   ► Carrot Weather, that's my favorite of all of the weather apps. I love the watch app

00:04:43 ◼   ► and I love the widget in the notification center. It nicely displays information. Clock

00:04:50 ◼   ► with a K, K-L-O-K, which is a time zone converter widget. And then the Apple Notes and Apple

00:05:00 ◼   ► batteries widgets and then canary right in the bottom of my home security needs.

00:05:05 ◼   ► Sure, makes sense. Mine are also workflow. I actually wrote last week it's a slideshow

00:05:13 ◼   ► but it's a good one. It's a content filled slideshow. It's 25 different things that you

00:05:17 ◼   ► can do with workflow and we'll talk about more workflow more soon.

00:05:25 ◼   ► Workflow mo.

00:05:26 ◼   ► Workflow mo.

00:05:27 ◼   ► No workflows mo problem.

00:05:28 ◼   ► - No problem. - No flows.

00:05:29 ◼   ► So that widget is amazing

00:05:34 ◼   ► because the widgets now have the ability to run code

00:05:37 ◼   ► in iOS 10 and workflow takes advantage of that.

00:05:40 ◼   ► Like running workflows from the home screen,

00:05:43 ◼   ► it launches workflow, right?

00:05:45 ◼   ► And like kicks you into a series of things.

00:05:47 ◼   ► There's a lot of stuff that when you run it from the widget,

00:05:49 ◼   ► it just runs in the widget.

00:05:50 ◼   ► It's amazing how it does that.

00:05:53 ◼   ► So. - Yeah.

00:05:54 ◼   ► Yeah, like, so I have like ones that will,

00:05:56 ◼   ► that do Todoist, they launch Todoist templates,

00:05:58 ◼   ► it doesn't even open Todoist.

00:06:00 ◼   ► Like I just hit the thing and then the tasks are in there.

00:06:03 ◼   ► It never even opens the app, it's magic.

00:06:06 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's very good stuff.

00:06:08 ◼   ► I also have on my phone, Weather Underground

00:06:11 ◼   ► and on my iPad, Wonder Station,

00:06:12 ◼   ► because they've split those apps for iPad and iPhone.

00:06:15 ◼   ► And that basically tells me the temperature at my house.

00:06:20 ◼   ► And also if I'm out and about, it will auto,

00:06:24 ◼   ► if I'm in a different city, it will tell me

00:06:25 ◼   ► like the local like temperature and forecast too.

00:06:27 ◼   ► But when I'm at home,

00:06:29 ◼   ► it is my weather station that's feeding it.

00:06:32 ◼   ► And I have dark sky on in the winter on my iPhone.

00:06:37 ◼   ► Overcast because it's the new Overcast widget is helpful.

00:06:43 ◼   ► I can very quickly play Overcast,

00:06:46 ◼   ► which seems like I might as well just run Overcast.

00:06:49 ◼   ► I think the thing with that and also on the watch

00:06:51 ◼   ► is sometimes your phone is not playing a podcast.

00:06:55 ◼   ► It's playing, it just played a video or it played some music

00:06:59 ◼   ► and now when you press play and you want your podcast back,

00:07:02 ◼   ► they don't come back and the widget is one way

00:07:05 ◼   ► to force overcast to start playing.

00:07:07 ◼   ► - That's a really good use case.

00:07:09 ◼   ► 'Cause I have that and it really annoys me.

00:07:12 ◼   ► - My number one, so I now use the overcast watch

00:07:15 ◼   ► complication, which seems stupid, right?

00:07:17 ◼   ► 'Cause it's just the overcast icon.

00:07:20 ◼   ► But I do it because I'll get in the car and music starts playing sometimes.

00:07:25 ◼   ► And it's because I was playing either because I was playing music earlier or because I was

00:07:30 ◼   ► playing something like a YouTube video and now it thinks nothing's playing.

00:07:35 ◼   ► And when you press play on an iPad or on an iPhone when nothing is playing it's like,

00:07:39 ◼   ► "Oh, I'll play you some music," which is not what I want.

00:07:41 ◼   ► I want podcasts.

00:07:42 ◼   ► I want to go back to the podcast I was listening to.

00:07:44 ◼   ► I can tap on the watch complication and tap play and then start driving.

00:07:50 ◼   ► And it will launch overcast, start playing overcast.

00:07:53 ◼   ► And it's great because that's the way to force your phone that doesn't think its current

00:07:59 ◼   ► audio context is overcast back to overcast.

00:08:03 ◼   ► It's great.

00:08:04 ◼   ► And likewise on the widget.

00:08:06 ◼   ► And I have MLB@bat, which has like baseball score on it, which is great.

00:08:11 ◼   ► And Fantastic Hal.

00:08:12 ◼   ► I don't use that a lot, but it's there for like, what's my upcoming event?

00:08:15 ◼   ► What's my next event?

00:08:16 ◼   ► What's going on next in my life?

00:08:18 ◼   ► Lots of things are happening next week.

00:08:19 ◼   ► Myke, things are happening next week.

00:08:21 ◼   ► Oh yeah, we got a really big week next week, so...

00:08:24 ◼   ► Huge week!

00:08:25 ◼   ► Next week's upgrade, we're gonna be recording on Tuesday, and we're gonna be recording it

00:08:30 ◼   ► in person in MegaOffice.

00:08:33 ◼   ► In your office.

00:08:34 ◼   ► And one of the things that we're talking about is Myke at the Movies, and we're gonna be

00:08:38 ◼   ► doing Alien next week.

00:08:40 ◼   ► Yes.

00:08:41 ◼   ► So we're not watching the movie together, it's not the Flothouse.

00:08:44 ◼   ► No.

00:08:45 ◼   ► Although, you know, if you weren't recording another podcast right before that, I would

00:08:48 ◼   ► we'd be sorely tempted to have Myke at the movies

00:08:51 ◼   ► involve us actually watching the movie together,

00:08:52 ◼   ► but you've got to record "Connected" that afternoon.

00:08:54 ◼   ► - If you want to come over in the morning,

00:08:56 ◼   ► like if you want to come over earlier, if you want to.

00:08:59 ◼   ► - No, it's, you live a long way from where I'm staying,

00:09:02 ◼   ► and then I would be there the whole day,

00:09:03 ◼   ► and I'm gonna, that's, I think,

00:09:06 ◼   ► I think that would be too many trips on the train.

00:09:08 ◼   ► So we'll just do it, we'll do it separately,

00:09:10 ◼   ► but we are gonna talk about the movie "Alien",

00:09:13 ◼   ► the original

00:09:15 ◼   ► after after uh...

00:09:17 ◼   ► we finish the regular show

00:09:19 ◼   ► as we do with my communities but within person

00:09:22 ◼   ► indian i'll see the look of terror on mike's face yeah i'm after he's seen

00:09:26 ◼   ► a million i don't know how i feel about this this one

00:09:30 ◼   ► don't like scary movies well i recommend you watch it in the dark

00:09:34 ◼   ► but i think that if if you're terrified person and watch it in the light i'm

00:09:38 ◼   ► gonna watch it in the middle of the afternoon one i i recommend you have a

00:09:41 ◼   ► blankie

00:09:42 ◼   ► and a pillow

00:09:46 ◼   ► we should hide behind me and he did and he did jason

00:09:49 ◼   ► i think

00:09:51 ◼   ► i'm over the afternoon but you do you're doing connected on on tuesday so i

00:09:55 ◼   ► doesn't it doesn't make sense

00:09:57 ◼   ► uh...

00:09:59 ◼   ► just saying it's not that scary idea you need you don't you don't know my you

00:10:04 ◼   ► know my levels of of what is considered scary

00:10:07 ◼   ► we'll see i mean we'll see if i'm a trembling mess next week that one of the

00:10:11 ◼   ► I haven't gone over it.

00:10:13 ◼   ► - Fantastic.

00:10:14 ◼   ► - That's Myke in the movies next week.

00:10:15 ◼   ► He's gonna be alien.

00:10:17 ◼   ► So buckle up I guess for that one.

00:10:20 ◼   ► - Sure.

00:10:21 ◼   ► - All right, we have a quite a big week this week.

00:10:22 ◼   ► Guess all of the unexpected news, honestly.

00:10:25 ◼   ► I don't think this was the news that we're expecting

00:10:27 ◼   ► to be talking about this week, but we'll get to that.

00:10:30 ◼   ► Before we do, let me take a moment to thank our friends

00:10:33 ◼   ► over at Smile for supporting this week's show.

00:10:36 ◼   ► Today's episode is brought to you by TextExpander

00:10:39 ◼   ► from smile. TextExpander for Teams is quite simply a productivity multiplier. You will

00:10:45 ◼   ► get a shared knowledge base with TextExpander for Teams that you can have set up in your

00:10:50 ◼   ► business to ensure that your team communicates quickly and accurately. How do they do this?

00:10:56 ◼   ► Because with TextExpander you will be able to set up some immediately accessible and

00:11:01 ◼   ► searchable text all through simple abbreviations and keyboard shortcuts. The response that

00:11:06 ◼   ► the person in your team needs will be just a couple of keys away. Now type two or three

00:11:11 ◼   ► keys and a whole paragraph will bounce out because you've set it up in TextExpander.

00:11:16 ◼   ► All they need to know is the abbreviations and they're ready to go and with TextExpander

00:11:20 ◼   ► all of these common replies can be worded by your best writers. They should be written

00:11:25 ◼   ► once put into TextExpander and they're shared with everyone no matter what platform they're

00:11:29 ◼   ► on whether they're on Mac, iOS and now Windows. All you need to do is type a couple of keys

00:11:34 ◼   ► and it's ready to go. TextExpander helps customer service teams provide better, faster and more

00:11:39 ◼   ► accurate service. You'll be able to ensure that everybody treats their customers consistently

00:11:45 ◼   ► because everything's worded the same and any change in messaging will be updated seamlessly

00:11:50 ◼   ► and immediately in the background. So you'll be able to change some stuff, you've got a

00:11:54 ◼   ► new campaign, maybe you've got something that wants to be worded slightly differently and

00:11:57 ◼   ► it will all be changed. All your team members need to do is remember the keys that they

00:12:02 ◼   ► need to pull up the information they're looking for or they can just search for it in the

00:12:06 ◼   ► great TextExpander app.

00:12:08 ◼   ► One of my favorite things about TextExpander is to fill in snippets.

00:12:10 ◼   ► So you can do this as well where you can, you know, maybe say you're writing some customer

00:12:14 ◼   ► service email, you know, everyone's got like the main bulk of the email that they need,

00:12:18 ◼   ► but you can be able to change some stuff, you can add some text in of dropdowns and

00:12:21 ◼   ► you're able to do all of this.

00:12:22 ◼   ► You just type in what you need, it jumps the cursor to the appropriate places, you press

00:12:26 ◼   ► return and everything's filled in.

00:12:28 ◼   ► It's really incredible.

00:12:30 ◼   ► of all sizes can harness these productivity benefits. Just go to textexpander.com/upgradefm

00:12:36 ◼   ► and sign up for a free trial. Then you'll see first hand why companies like 1Password,

00:12:41 ◼   ► WordPress, Shopify and You Need a Budget all use TextExpander. Thank you so much to TextExpander

00:12:46 ◼   ► for their support of this very show.

00:12:50 ◼   ► Alright, so the $329 iPad.

00:12:56 ◼   ► News! News! We got news! Everybody news! News happened!

00:13:03 ◼   ► We got some news but it wasn't what we wanted but we got it anyway.

00:13:06 ◼   ► Well, there were press releases released with new things from Apple and I feel like I've

00:13:11 ◼   ► just crawled into an oasis from out of the desert. It's amazing.

00:13:15 ◼   ► So there were press releases. No event. We kind of got tipped off to the fact that the

00:13:19 ◼   ► store was going to be down, right? Like there was like some postings on Apple's internal

00:13:25 ◼   ► or status, not internal, but they're like their status boards,

00:13:28 ◼   ► they're like system status boards.

00:13:31 ◼   ► You know, there was gonna be something happening.

00:13:33 ◼   ► - Yeah, the Apple Store was going to have

00:13:34 ◼   ► some maintenance happen overnight on last Tuesday.

00:13:39 ◼   ► - So we knew that that was going on,

00:13:42 ◼   ► and we were expecting a myriad of things.

00:13:47 ◼   ► We'll talk about that a little later on,

00:13:48 ◼   ► but one of the things that we did actually get was iPad.

00:13:53 ◼   ► This is a continuation of the line that was the iPad Air and iPad Air 2.

00:13:59 ◼   ► So the iPad Air and iPad Air 2 have gone away.

00:14:02 ◼   ► Apple do not make the iPad Air line anymore.

00:14:05 ◼   ► That is not the line that is continuing.

00:14:07 ◼   ► And the new iPad features an A9 processor, most of the features of the Air 2, and a new

00:14:14 ◼   ► lower price of $329.

00:14:16 ◼   ► - $29, right?

00:14:18 ◼   ► - And trapped in the body, most of the features of the Air 2

00:14:20 ◼   ► trapped in the body of an Air 1.

00:14:22 ◼   ► - Yeah, because it is what is thicker, heavier.

00:14:27 ◼   ► - A lot of the new features,

00:14:28 ◼   ► I went back and looked at my review of the iPad Air 2

00:14:31 ◼   ► and it is, you know, when you write a review of a product,

00:14:35 ◼   ► what you do is you say,

00:14:35 ◼   ► "Here's what's different from its predecessor."

00:14:37 ◼   ► And it's true, most people aren't upgrading

00:14:39 ◼   ► from the predecessor, but that's sort of like

00:14:41 ◼   ► everybody's mind about what state of the art.

00:14:43 ◼   ► And so you wanna say, "What's new?

00:14:44 ◼   ► What haven't we seen before in this product?"

00:14:46 ◼   ► And in my review of the Air 2, I listed all these things that are new about it, like the

00:14:50 ◼   ► fact that they have a laminated screen, so there's no air gap, and there's anti-glare

00:14:54 ◼   ► coating, and there are, let's see, what else, so it's thinner and lighter, and the new iPad

00:15:03 ◼   ► is essentially none of that.

00:15:06 ◼   ► It is back to the Air 1.

00:15:08 ◼   ► It is that screen.

00:15:09 ◼   ► So the screen, anyway, and the thickness, they've backed it out to the Air 1, presumably

00:15:15 ◼   ► because it's a lot cheaper to make a screen like that than to have this fancy laminated

00:15:19 ◼   ► screen with an anti-glare coat on it. And when they're trying to get the price down

00:15:23 ◼   ► to $329, that's the stuff that has to go. So it's a little bit, it's fascinating that

00:15:30 ◼   ► they've done this, and I'm sure we can go into this a little bit more, but it's a lot

00:15:33 ◼   ► like the iPhone SE in a way, where it's kind of a new product, but it's got a bunch of

00:15:39 ◼   ► old tech that is being repurposed and then some new tech in it as well. But I

00:15:45 ◼   ► would say the basis of it is basically an upgraded iPad Air 1. What if we

00:15:49 ◼   ► took the iPad Air 1 and upgraded the internals a little bit? It certainly has

00:15:55 ◼   ► none of the iPad Pro features. That's not happening. This is a

00:15:58 ◼   ► base model. It's the equivalent of what if we took the iPad Air 1 and then

00:16:03 ◼   ► upgraded a little bit so that we could sell it in 2017 and beyond for a low

00:16:07 ◼   ► price. I think for me what this iPad is really doing from a product line

00:16:14 ◼   ► perspective is separating the iPad Pro like it's it's helping in a in a way

00:16:20 ◼   ► make the iPad Pro stand out more right because this iPad has kind of taken in

00:16:27 ◼   ► some aspects a step back from it. Right I mean the iPad Airline itself was

00:16:33 ◼   ► impressive and the Air 2 is an impressive upgrade and that was because

00:16:37 ◼   ► they were on the line of what's the state, they were the, the iPad Air and then the iPad

00:16:41 ◼   ► Air 2 were state of the art iPads.

00:16:43 ◼   ► They were, they were the top of the line.

00:16:45 ◼   ► Exactly right, and they were moving on this track and then the iPad Pro was essentially

00:16:50 ◼   ► the iPad Air 3, you know, you could think of it that way. It was the next progression

00:16:54 ◼   ► there. And what Apple's doing now is it's tearing down the Air line, turns out the MacBook

00:16:59 ◼   ► Air has survived the iPad Air, who knew. And they're tearing that all down and they're

00:17:06 ◼   ► going back to the iPad line and they're going back with something that's kind of

00:17:09 ◼   ► like the Air 1 and you're absolutely right by doing that they have iPad and

00:17:14 ◼   ► iPad Pro and there's much bigger gulf between them in price and

00:17:19 ◼   ► functionality because the iPad, this new iPad, is not intended to be the top of

00:17:24 ◼   ► the line of anything like the iPad or like the iPhone SE, kind of. It is that

00:17:29 ◼   ► same kind of thing and and you know the iPad Air 2 was weirder, right?

00:17:34 ◼   ► because it was really just a previous generation top of the line product that was now a year

00:17:38 ◼   ► old and this new iPad is not that at all in any way.

00:17:44 ◼   ► So like I was thinking about this like how are they separating these devices like what

00:17:48 ◼   ► do they look like now? So one of the big things is processor differences right? So whilst

00:17:54 ◼   ► the iPad got a processor bump it's now on the A9 I think it was on the A8 before right?

00:18:01 ◼   ► But the iPad Pros both have in them when they were launched an A9X, right, so it had a more

00:18:09 ◼   ► powerful processor.

00:18:10 ◼   ► And I think a lot of us were kind of assuming that the Air 3 would probably pick up that

00:18:14 ◼   ► processor, right?

00:18:15 ◼   ► Like I think we were all assuming the continuation of the Air line would have seen it get even

00:18:20 ◼   ► closer to the Pro, right, if they didn't rev the Pros, right?

00:18:24 ◼   ► So what they've done is they've separated them.

00:18:26 ◼   ► They're also marketing them significantly differently.

00:18:30 ◼   ► Like you can just see it on Apple's website.

00:18:32 ◼   ► The iPad Pro, the tagline is super computer and the iPad is the tagline is flat out fun.

00:18:39 ◼   ► One of them is all about consuming video and listening to music and playing games, right?

00:18:45 ◼   ► And shopping across the whole page.

00:18:48 ◼   ► The other one is editing photos in Photoshop, creating websites.

00:18:56 ◼   ► It shows the internals.

00:18:57 ◼   ► It shows some CAD program, Excel, Word, very different marketing strategies for these products.

00:19:05 ◼   ► One is an addition to the other products in your home, the other computers.

00:19:10 ◼   ► The other is a replacement for a computer in your home.

00:19:13 ◼   ► That is how I was marketing them.

00:19:14 ◼   ► That makes me very happy to see this maybe a more clear message for the iPad line as

00:19:23 ◼   ► a thing in a way that I actually don't really think that they do for the Mac.

00:19:26 ◼   ► I don't think that there's so much of,

00:19:29 ◼   ► I feel like they just show a lot of the same sort of stuff

00:19:31 ◼   ► and then the pro does more on top, right?

00:19:33 ◼   ► But it's not like they show,

00:19:35 ◼   ► the MacBook isn't the watching Netflix Mac.

00:19:38 ◼   ► Like that's not how they market that.

00:19:41 ◼   ► So I kind of like that 'cause it's like

00:19:43 ◼   ► understanding what the products are,

00:19:44 ◼   ► like the iPad, this iPad is more of a consumption device

00:19:49 ◼   ► and then the pros are more of a working device.

00:19:53 ◼   ► So the marketing differences.

00:19:55 ◼   ► - Trying to differentiate them and the names make sense.

00:19:58 ◼   ► This is the thing of like Air and Pro was weird,

00:20:00 ◼   ► but now it's just iPad and iPad Pro, which is much clearer.

00:20:03 ◼   ► - Like MacBook and MacBook Pro.

00:20:05 ◼   ► - Exactly right.

00:20:06 ◼   ► Like we're getting to the other side

00:20:09 ◼   ► of Apple's weird name transition

00:20:11 ◼   ► when things were really confusing

00:20:12 ◼   ► and people quite rightly pointed out,

00:20:13 ◼   ► boy, this is really confusing.

00:20:15 ◼   ► They're like, they're trying to get it settled.

00:20:17 ◼   ► They're trying to get this clear distinction

00:20:20 ◼   ► that the Air name doesn't help with,

00:20:22 ◼   ► that now they're trying to get,

00:20:24 ◼   ► which is just its high end or its low end,

00:20:26 ◼   ► and then within there, there are the sizes.

00:20:31 ◼   ► I'm a little surprised that the iPad mini 4,

00:20:33 ◼   ► other than that it's not new.

00:20:35 ◼   ► I think if it was new, they would just call it iPad mini.

00:20:38 ◼   ► - So do I.

00:20:39 ◼   ► I would be willing to make a bet

00:20:41 ◼   ► that the next version of the iPad Pro

00:20:43 ◼   ► is just called iPad Pro,

00:20:44 ◼   ► like it doesn't get a number or anything.

00:20:47 ◼   ► - Yeah, and it would be the iPad Pro,

00:20:49 ◼   ► whatever size it is, 2017.

00:20:51 ◼   ► in the same way that I think the unicorn iPhone will just be called iPhone, right? Like, or

00:20:57 ◼   ► it will be called iPhone Pro or something. I really think that Apple is going to get

00:21:00 ◼   ► away from these ever-increasing numbers because I just don't think, I just don't think it

00:21:04 ◼   ► looks very good like in the abstract. I think that you can come up with more interesting

00:21:08 ◼   ► names and maybe just focus on the numbers a little bit less. I don't think that the

00:21:12 ◼   ► numbers are very, they just don't really say much, I don't think. You know, just like,

00:21:16 ◼   ► oh, this is the next one.

00:21:18 ◼   ► I am a believer, now not from a nerd perspective

00:21:21 ◼   ► of we need to define, you know, if you're doing support

00:21:24 ◼   ► or if you're in IT or anything like that,

00:21:26 ◼   ► where, and people like us, where we need to talk about,

00:21:29 ◼   ► well, which one are you talking about?

00:21:30 ◼   ► And that's when we do, like for this one,

00:21:32 ◼   ► that's when we do, it's the new,

00:21:34 ◼   ► it's the iPad, fifth generation.

00:21:37 ◼   ► Like that's not a name that anybody actually wants to say,

00:21:39 ◼   ► but it's like a footnote, but you have to,

00:21:41 ◼   ► for us, we have to say, oh, it's the fifth generation iPad.

00:21:44 ◼   ► It's not the iPad Air or Air 2

00:21:46 ◼   ► or the fourth generation iPad way back when it is this new model. But from a consumer

00:21:51 ◼   ► standpoint I think it's absolutely the right thing to do to say this is the iPad Pro, it's

00:21:57 ◼   ► always the iPad Pro, we have a new model this year, this is the 2017 iPad Pro, but it's

00:22:02 ◼   ► still just the iPad Pro, and this is the iPad, and this is the iMac, right? I mean the iMac

00:22:06 ◼   ► is a good example of that. The iMac is the iMac, the MacBook Pro is the MacBook Pro,

00:22:10 ◼   ► It isn't the MacBook Pro 6, right?

00:22:13 ◼   ► It is the MacBook Pro.

00:22:16 ◼   ► And the argument could be made that the iPhone is the same way, that this should be this

00:22:20 ◼   ► year's iPhone, the new iPhone.

00:22:22 ◼   ► I want the new iPhone.

00:22:24 ◼   ► The challenge is when you're selling the new iPhone and the old iPhone and the older iPhone,

00:22:31 ◼   ► right?

00:22:32 ◼   ► I think that's the issue, is you'd be better off differentiating by having it be iPhone,

00:22:38 ◼   ► Pro iPhone SE, then you would be saying iPhone 7, iPhone 6S, iPhone 6.

00:22:45 ◼   ► Yeah, I think so.

00:22:46 ◼   ► And that may be where they're going. That rumored $1000 plus iPhone 8 that we've been

00:22:53 ◼   ► talking about absolutely could be the iPhone Pro, and it could be followed sometime the

00:22:58 ◼   ► following year by an SE-like revision of the iPhone 6 or 6S that they call iPhone, and

00:23:06 ◼   ► that's the new model, right? Which is top end is cutting edge, and then the lower end

00:23:13 ◼   ► phones are, you know, or devices are much less likely to be dramatically changed. Occasionally

00:23:19 ◼   ► they'll have a revision. Like, I would imagine that the iPhone SE will not stay looking like

00:23:24 ◼   ► an iPhone 5 forever, but it may do it for a long time. I don't know. Oh, I wanted to

00:23:33 ◼   ► mention something about the SE also is that the iPad, the new iPad actually shares the

00:23:38 ◼   ► same processor as the SE. It's an A9. So that's like apples. This is our kind of, it's good,

00:23:43 ◼   ► but it's like the base level of it's good enough for us to sell this in a new model,

00:23:48 ◼   ► but a low cost model. And a lot of arguments can be made that the A8X that was in the iPad

00:23:53 ◼   ► Air 2 is actually a better processor than in the A9 because of all the graphics performance

00:23:59 ◼   ► enhancements that they make in the X models

00:24:02 ◼   ► that aren't necessarily there.

00:24:03 ◼   ► - Oh, interesting.

00:24:04 ◼   ► - But the old iPad Air 1 had an A7.

00:24:08 ◼   ► So that's the, if you wanna think of it that way,

00:24:10 ◼   ► that's the step up here is they wanted to get away

00:24:13 ◼   ► from like an A7 processor.

00:24:14 ◼   ► So they went to an A9, it's in the same family

00:24:17 ◼   ► as the iPhones and the iPad Pros,

00:24:20 ◼   ► but it's not as souped up as that.

00:24:23 ◼   ► And that's a price and differentiation thing

00:24:26 ◼   ► that they're doing there.

00:24:27 ◼   ► - There was one thing I wanted to just touch on

00:24:29 ◼   ► before we wrap up the iPad versus Pro line,

00:24:32 ◼   ► which is the features, right?

00:24:34 ◼   ► I think that they've done a better job now

00:24:36 ◼   ► of pulling the features apart,

00:24:38 ◼   ► by kind of taking a step back on the display.

00:24:41 ◼   ► So it's not a wide color display,

00:24:43 ◼   ► and it's not a laminated display anymore, right?

00:24:46 ◼   ► - Yeah, and basically they're saying,

00:24:48 ◼   ► no, that's too expensive a feature to be in a 329 tablet.

00:24:52 ◼   ► That's our high end, that's our cutting edge, right?

00:24:54 ◼   ► When they were driving to the cutting edge with the Air 2,

00:24:56 ◼   ► it was worth the extra cost to do that.

00:24:59 ◼   ► But as a 329 product, it's not.

00:25:02 ◼   ► - And then it also has speakers, the Pro line

00:25:04 ◼   ► and the ability for the pencil and smart connector, right?

00:25:07 ◼   ► So you can put the cable on it.

00:25:09 ◼   ► - Right, you have your stereo

00:25:09 ◼   ► or your four speakers and all of that.

00:25:11 ◼   ► And that's all not there.

00:25:13 ◼   ► This is, I think, I don't know which,

00:25:16 ◼   ► I was gonna say phase two, but it's maybe not phase two,

00:25:19 ◼   ► but it's a phase of Tim Cook's product management philosophy

00:25:25 ◼   ► like our not like product management, but like what the offerings managing

00:25:31 ◼   ► Apple's offerings and managing how Apple creates different products at different

00:25:36 ◼   ► price points. I feel like we've entered this new phase now and phase one.

00:25:41 ◼   ► We'll, we'll call it.

00:25:43 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:25:43 ◼   ► Again, I don't, I shouldn't be counting phases was what if we keep the old

00:25:48 ◼   ► products around and drop the price.

00:25:50 ◼   ► So instead of making a low end, whatever, we're just going to, we're just going

00:25:53 ◼   ► keep the old products around, the longer we make them, the cheaper they are to make. We

00:25:58 ◼   ► can just keep them around for a while. The downside of that is you sell an iPad Air 2

00:26:03 ◼   ► to somebody, or I mean an iPad 2, second generation iPad, right? iPad 2 to people four years after

00:26:09 ◼   ► it was introduced as a new iPad, which they did. And then you are saddled with these,

00:26:16 ◼   ► you're saddling people with these old processors, your app developers, your operating system

00:26:21 ◼   ► supporting these old devices that really shouldn't be supported. So there are a lot of downsides

00:26:27 ◼   ► to doing it that way, but they're way cheaper to make. You just keep them in the price line.

00:26:30 ◼   ► You don't have to make a new product. You just keep making them. You've gotten really

00:26:34 ◼   ► good at making iPhone 6s. Just keep making them. And they're cheaper to make every month

00:26:38 ◼   ► that goes by. They're cheaper for you to make, so your profit margin goes up, or you can

00:26:42 ◼   ► cut the price. Great. Phase two is saying, "Okay, that's not the best way to do it. The

00:26:50 ◼   ► The best way to do it is to just to have a clear, lower-priced line that we can update

00:26:55 ◼   ► occasionally so that there's clarity, that there's the high-end and the mid-range and

00:26:59 ◼   ► the low-end or however you want to define it, and that there's less confusion at that

00:27:05 ◼   ► point because you don't have last year's model and this year's model and two years ago's

00:27:10 ◼   ► model all on sale, and it lets you take that mid-range model and make some tweaks to it.

00:27:16 ◼   ► They're not going to upgrade the iPhone 6, right?

00:27:19 ◼   ► not going to put a better processor in the iPhone 6. It wouldn't be an iPhone 6 then.

00:27:24 ◼   ► But they could potentially do what they did with the SE and what they did with this new

00:27:28 ◼   ► iPad, which is just refresh it a little, but still keep most of the things that make it

00:27:34 ◼   ► cheap to make. And so that's why I feel like that's the new phase we're in now. It makes

00:27:42 ◼   ► me think that we will see this on the iPhone at some point, just because it makes more

00:27:46 ◼   ► sense to do it this way, given that they clearly have a preference to keep old product designs

00:27:53 ◼   ► around that are cheaper to make. And you could really argue that people are going to be much

00:28:01 ◼   ► more inclined to buy a new iPad than buy a two-year-old iPad that's at a low price. It's

00:28:08 ◼   ► a new iPad at a low price. Even though the specs might be the same or worse, it's new

00:28:15 ◼   ► and it's just in their price range. And that's, you know, if you went to a car lot, if you

00:28:19 ◼   ► went to a car dealership and they said, "Well, I know you want the 2018 model, but I do have

00:28:24 ◼   ► a 2015. Are you trying to sell me a used car? No, no, it's new. It's just the old model."

00:28:29 ◼   ► I don't know. You know, would people be enthusiastic about that instead of just saying, "Well,

00:28:34 ◼   ► you know, it comes in, this year's model comes in two different price variations and one

00:28:38 ◼   ► of them is a little bit less powerful." I was like, "Oh, well, that actually fits my

00:28:41 ◼   ► budget better. I'll just get that one." That, psychologically, that feels like way better

00:28:45 ◼   ► to me to buy today's model than to buy two years ago's model, which is the problem with

00:28:50 ◼   ► the Tim Cook approach of letting your products just kind of keep being sold and aging out

00:28:55 ◼   ► and going down in price until they're finally irrelevant.

00:29:00 ◼   ► So I think one of the key indicators here, I mean I think Apple is making it abundantly

00:29:04 ◼   ► clear that they have done this to the iPad line to sell an iPad for a lower price. I

00:29:09 ◼   ► I think it's clear, right, that the price is lower.

00:29:13 ◼   ► It's lower than any 9.7 inch iPad price has ever been,

00:29:17 ◼   ► right, for a new product.

00:29:19 ◼   ► And they've clearly made some decisions on this product

00:29:22 ◼   ► to make it cheaper, right?

00:29:23 ◼   ► So I think we can see that.

00:29:25 ◼   ► And one of the key reasons that we have done this,

00:29:27 ◼   ► as well as just trying to drive general adoption

00:29:29 ◼   ► in the iPad line, is to target education.

00:29:33 ◼   ► I think education is really clear here.

00:29:36 ◼   ► And you wrote an article on Macworld,

00:29:38 ◼   ► kind of outlining some of this. And one of the things that Apple may be trying to defend

00:29:42 ◼   ► against is Chromebooks.

00:29:44 ◼   ► Sure absolutely because Chromebooks have been incredibly successful in education, especially

00:29:48 ◼   ► in the US.

00:29:49 ◼   ► Yeah and they're selling well just in general, right? I think in the article you cited, another

00:29:55 ◼   ► Macworld article that talks about last May, Chromebook sales surpassed Mac sales just

00:30:00 ◼   ► in general. And education is where a lot of these are being sold into. So the new iPad,

00:30:07 ◼   ► I mean Apple again like Apple is telegraphing their decisions on this one

00:30:11 ◼   ► The new iPad has an education discount that you can get and it's then priced at two hundred ninety nine dollars

00:30:19 ◼   ► which makes it incredibly competitive with good Chromebooks and

00:30:22 ◼   ► Then again, they've worked with Logitech and Logitech have got this bundle that they're selling

00:30:29 ◼   ► Well, like Apple is selling a bundle right with a Logitech case

00:30:31 ◼   ► Which is it's not a good looking case

00:30:36 ◼   ► No, it's not.

00:30:37 ◼   ► It's called, what is it called, the Rugged?

00:30:39 ◼   ► The Rugged.

00:30:40 ◼   ► Rugged Combo, and it's like this really square, like blocky keyboard case, but like, you know,

00:30:46 ◼   ► it looks like that thing would take a beating, hence why you'd put it in schools.

00:30:51 ◼   ► Yeah, and that's all part of their story.

00:30:54 ◼   ► And again, I don't think, I was looking at Fraser Speer's tweets about this, because

00:30:59 ◼   ► he obviously cares a lot about education, he's a teacher, and he's got a school with

00:31:03 ◼   ► an iPad program, and he is observing this and observing what's going on with Chromebooks.

00:31:10 ◼   ► And what this seems to do, and Fraser thinks this, is, you know, it's not going to make

00:31:17 ◼   ► the iPad price equivalent to a Chromebook. You know, the iPad alone doesn't have a keyboard.

00:31:23 ◼   ► The iPad in this case with a keyboard, you're adding even on more the price of the Logitech

00:31:29 ◼   ► stuff, what it does do is get the iPad a little bit closer within hailing distance of the

00:31:35 ◼   ► Chromebook. And once you get close, then you can compete on other issues, right? I think

00:31:42 ◼   ► that's the idea here, is that if they're only going to compete on price, let's be honest,

00:31:47 ◼   ► Apple's never going to win if you only compete on price with anyone.

00:31:51 ◼   ► Because you can get really cheap crap Chromebooks. You're never going to get a really cheap crap

00:31:56 ◼   ► iPad. So Apple's, and this is true across Apple's product line, so Apple's strategy

00:32:01 ◼   ► is always to tell you it is a little bit more expensive but you get more out of it. And

00:32:07 ◼   ► we can argue about whether that's true or not. I find a lot of people immediately want

00:32:11 ◼   ► to jump in and say, "But, but, but, but, but Chromebooks." And it's like, yeah, okay, that's

00:32:15 ◼   ► the argument that the schools have and that's the argument that the salespeople for companies

00:32:20 ◼   ► making Chromebooks and for Apple have to make to education. They have to make their sales

00:32:25 ◼   ► point but the problem is if the price gulf is so wide that you can't even make the arguments

00:32:29 ◼   ► and I look at this product and I say this gets Apple back in the game of being able

00:32:33 ◼   ► to say look I know the Chromebooks are cheap but let me tell you why ours are better and

00:32:38 ◼   ► they'll last longer and they'll be better for your students and they're more versatile

00:32:43 ◼   ► because they're a tablet and you can get it with the keyboard all of those things so and

00:32:48 ◼   ► Fraser Spears has done the math and you know the this could depending on how you deploy

00:32:52 ◼   ► it. These could be, especially if you're not doing a one-to-one but you're doing like a

00:32:57 ◼   ► smaller group, like a one-to-six kind of deployment, the iPad could be very, very cheaply deployed.

00:33:04 ◼   ► And that's all, you know, you have to be part of the conversation if you want to sell your

00:33:08 ◼   ► product and Apple, I think, is, you know, they're closing the gap enough to be part

00:33:14 ◼   ► of the conversation here.

00:33:15 ◼   ► You remember a short time ago when we were discussing kind of the iPad, its place, you

00:33:19 ◼   ► know when we were looking at all that data right about sales figures we were

00:33:23 ◼   ► hearing from a bunch of people that was like in education and they were waiting

00:33:26 ◼   ► right they were waiting for the next iPad air and I think they've gotten

00:33:31 ◼   ► something even better than that right so like there is there is a strong chance

00:33:35 ◼   ► that there are gonna be a bunch of schools that are like awesome we finally

00:33:38 ◼   ► have that machine that we could buy that and get a new one at a great price.

00:33:41 ◼   ► That's the iPad for us exactly right yeah exactly right and I wonder if this if we're

00:33:46 ◼   ► gonna see an impact on unit sales. I think that would be really interesting to see what

00:33:51 ◼   ► the results look like at this quarter.

00:33:53 ◼   ► Well, we haven't even talked about the, I mean, we mentioned it on a previous show,

00:33:56 ◼   ► the average, if you look at the average selling price for the iPad, so when we get the quarterly

00:34:01 ◼   ► results, one of the things you can do, they say how much iPad, how many units they sold

00:34:05 ◼   ► and how much money they made, or money they, revenue they generated, right? Well, you divide

00:34:09 ◼   ► those and what do you get is the average iPad sold for this many dollars and it's very clear

00:34:17 ◼   ► that after a brief bump when the iPad Pro was released the average selling price has gone way

00:34:22 ◼   ► down and it like the last two quarters so the last six months what iPads have been selling the

00:34:28 ◼   ► cheapest iPads the cheapest iPads have been selling the average selling price of the iPad is quite low

00:34:35 ◼   ► And so it is not hard to look at that and say, "Huh, that's maybe a market that Apple

00:34:44 ◼   ► should find a way to serve." And this is the answer, right? This is the answer, is they

00:34:48 ◼   ► built a product for that market. And they're allowing the iPad to be both of these things,

00:34:56 ◼   ► to be a 329 bare bones iPad that's sold to somebody who just wants an iPad or sold to

00:35:01 ◼   ► education at a further discount, you know, because it's an education price they have,

00:35:06 ◼   ► so it would be even less than what a consumer would pay for it. And then up at the high

00:35:09 ◼   ► end you can buy an iPad Pro with cellular, you know, with a lot of storage for more than

00:35:15 ◼   ► $1,000. And then, you know, you can just choose which path to go and the iPad can serve both.

00:35:21 ◼   ► There was, I just said, like, you know, we're focused on education a little bit here, but

00:35:28 ◼   ► But of course this iPad is for anyone, right? Like, it's good. It's a good machine.

00:35:32 ◼   ► It will run kind of any app well, you know. I think it's perfect for the tasks that

00:35:36 ◼   ► most people use their iPads for, like games and browsing and video, like exactly what

00:35:41 ◼   ► Apple is showing on the marketing pages.

00:35:43 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, right? A lot of people—that's why I think the numbers are the way they are—is

00:35:50 ◼   ► for a lot of people, the iPad is not—this is the great argument, right? When you get

00:35:54 ◼   ► in an argument about iPad suitability as a pro device, right? It's like there is a segment

00:36:01 ◼   ► of people who really care about the iPad as a pro device. And then there's another segment

00:36:06 ◼   ► who does not, who looks at the iPad and it's like, yeah, but it's just an iPad. All I really

00:36:10 ◼   ► want to do is watch some videos and play some games and check my email. Like, all right,

00:36:15 ◼   ► here we go. We've got, we've got some clarity here about this, that we've got 329 iPad and

00:36:23 ◼   ► then $599 iPad Pro. And that is pretty clear, right? $270 difference between those two.

00:36:36 ◼   ► So that's what it's like. You can save $270 if you don't care about all that other stuff.

00:36:41 ◼   ► And the reality is that somebody who cares enough about the iPad Pro, I find it actually

00:36:45 ◼   ► a little curious that the iPad Pros still offer a 32 gig version because at some point

00:36:50 ◼   ► you could probably take that away or increase it to 64 and increase the price

00:36:55 ◼   ► a little bit because you're no longer trying to get the iPad Pro down to the

00:36:58 ◼   ► low low price to get people in who don't care about that stuff and if the iPad

00:37:02 ◼   ► Pro is serving a more professional power user specs focused market then you have

00:37:09 ◼   ► the freedom and we may see this in the new generation of iPad Pros you have the

00:37:13 ◼   ► freedom to raise the price and raise the specs because they're paying for those

00:37:18 ◼   ► specs. So does anybody really want a 32 gig 12.9 inch iPad Pro? Probably not. So get it

00:37:25 ◼   ► out of there. You don't need it now. Other iPads serve that market.

00:37:29 ◼   ► A couple of tidbits about this iPad. Jason mentioned fifth generation. So I want to run

00:37:38 ◼   ► through what this product line has been called. If we call this a regular iPad, so the evolution

00:37:45 ◼   ► of the original iPad. This is what it's been called over time. iPad, iPad 2, the new iPad

00:37:50 ◼   ► with Retina display, iPad Air, iPad Air 2, and now iPad. And Apple is calling this the

00:37:57 ◼   ► fifth generation iPad in technical and support documents.

00:38:00 ◼   ► Yeah, it's actually iPad, iPad 2, iPad with Retina display. Well, or the new iPad with

00:38:08 ◼   ► Retina display. iPad with Retina display, right? Did you say that twice?

00:38:13 ◼   ► Oh.

00:38:14 ◼   ► - 'Cause there's the third and the fourth, right?

00:38:16 ◼   ► Because they did the quick turnaround

00:38:17 ◼   ► where the third generation iPad was the first retina iPad.

00:38:20 ◼   ► And they said, this is just the new iPad.

00:38:21 ◼   ► But really what it was is it was an iPad third generation.

00:38:24 ◼   ► And then like not very long, nine months later,

00:38:27 ◼   ► six months later, they came out

00:38:28 ◼   ► with the fourth generation model

00:38:30 ◼   ► because the third generation model,

00:38:31 ◼   ► which we had one of those,

00:38:32 ◼   ► we really struggled to drive all of those pixels.

00:38:36 ◼   ► And then they did an upgrade

00:38:37 ◼   ► and the fourth generation model

00:38:38 ◼   ► was a much more capable retina iPad.

00:38:40 ◼   ► And then they went air and air tube.

00:38:42 ◼   ► So in some ways, this is the seventh iPad, mainstream iPad, or even arguably the eighth,

00:38:50 ◼   ► but they're not counting it that way.

00:38:52 ◼   ► They're counting it as the fifth.

00:38:54 ◼   ► The iPad Air was a divergence.

00:38:56 ◼   ► The iPad Pro was a divergence.

00:38:57 ◼   ► But this is the fifth model to be called just iPad.

00:39:02 ◼   ► iPad 2 got retconned.

00:39:04 ◼   ► It's iPad 2, mean second-generation iPad, apparently, but they steered away from that

00:39:09 ◼   ► pretty quickly on the iPad side.

00:39:11 ◼   ► Mini still has a number. I don't know. It's inconsistent. I get the feeling that they're

00:39:15 ◼   ► calling in all the debts and going to the mattresses and pretty soon all the numbers

00:39:21 ◼   ► are going to be gone.

00:39:22 ◼   ► David: And one last little tidbit. I have to mention it because everyone in the UK will

00:39:26 ◼   ► be super mad if I don't. So this iPad is I think the first product to actually cost more

00:39:34 ◼   ► in pure number value in pounds than dollars. So the £329 iPad is £339. So the actual

00:39:46 ◼   ► currency conversion makes it $429. That's what £339 is. So it's just an interesting

00:39:54 ◼   ► thing to see that not only is it, you know, it's always more expensive, right, just in

00:39:59 ◼   ► like currency conversion, but now just like the actual numbers, it is a £339 iPad. And

00:40:06 ◼   ► that's Brexit. So yeah, I was gonna say just just to put this in perspective, when I last

00:40:12 ◼   ► went to the UK, it was about $1.6 to the pound. And it's $1.26 to the pound now. Yep. And

00:40:26 ◼   ► And we see this a lot in, which is great because I'm going to the UK next week, so yay, the

00:40:30 ◼   ► whole country is cheaper. But thank you for that. Thank you for your economy being potentially

00:40:36 ◼   ► destroyed Myke. It makes it cheaper for American tourists. Anyway, Apple has to deal with this

00:40:42 ◼   ► worldwide right? Because Apple deals in American dollars and so Apple has this challenge overseas

00:40:46 ◼   ► and what they don't want to do is have fluctuating prices where depending on the day you walk

00:40:49 ◼   ► into an Apple store in Australia or in the United Kingdom or anywhere else, that iPad

00:40:55 ◼   ► costs slightly different because of currency, they're not going to do that. But they've

00:40:59 ◼   ► been burned a bunch of times, so I think they want to be competitive, they don't want to

00:41:05 ◼   ► be priced out of markets. We've seen that. Actually, historically Apple has been really

00:41:09 ◼   ► bad in Australia where they've overpriced their systems in Australia because they claim

00:41:14 ◼   ► because of conversions but it ended up being way more expensive than it was to buy it in

00:41:18 ◼   ► the States. And that's still true from place to place, but this is an interesting example

00:41:21 ◼   ► or Apple's just said, "No, we're gonna protect ourselves."

00:41:24 ◼   ► I think this is Apple, to your point,

00:41:27 ◼   ► I think this is Apple protecting against more

00:41:29 ◼   ► drop in the pound.

00:41:31 ◼   ► - 'Cause it's gonna happen.

00:41:32 ◼   ► - From Brexit.

00:41:33 ◼   ► And so they're just pricing it where they think

00:41:35 ◼   ► it's gonna go.

00:41:36 ◼   ► - The end of this week is when we trigger Article 50,

00:41:40 ◼   ► which is the UK saying to the EU,

00:41:44 ◼   ► "Oh, you know, we're definitely going."

00:41:46 ◼   ► So it's very likely that the pound will take another hit

00:41:49 ◼   ► at that point.

00:41:50 ◼   ► Apple, I think, is quite rightly for a business, they are forecasting that it's going to be

00:41:55 ◼   ► more and more expensive for them to sell products here, so they're preparing for it.

00:41:58 ◼   ► Yeah, and Apple would rather not change the price of this product later? That's really

00:42:04 ◼   ► what's going on here. Let's say that something happens in the UK and the strength of the

00:42:09 ◼   ► pound goes way back up. Then, yeah, then maybe in six months or a year Apple goes, "Okay,

00:42:16 ◼   ► we gotta change the price." But right now, they're anticipating it's going to go the

00:42:19 ◼   ► other way and what this sort of placing a bet and this allows them to not change the

00:42:24 ◼   ► price. Whereas on some of their other products if the pound keeps going down they will continue

00:42:30 ◼   ► probably to reprice every so often but I know they hate to do that right you want to be

00:42:35 ◼   ► consistent the last thing you want to do is do a price hike in a country but you know

00:42:41 ◼   ► but those valuations eat into their profit margins you know right because in the end

00:42:45 ◼   ► and they're paying what they're paying and it's a consistent amount and then suddenly

00:42:50 ◼   ► the money that's coming back to them if they bring it back. Of course, they leave a lot

00:42:54 ◼   ► of cash outside of the US but I think that they're thinking in terms of the dollar and

00:43:00 ◼   ► so they want it to be priced consistently around the world. The net result of this is

00:43:06 ◼   ► that if you wanted one of these you would buy it when you're in the US, right?

00:43:11 ◼   ► I'm gonna be reverting to a lot of my decisions that I made a few years ago, which was to

00:43:16 ◼   ► pick up some devices that were not critical when I'm making US trips.

00:43:22 ◼   ► Well, and an iPad you could get…

00:43:25 ◼   ► Of course, and then I will pay the taxes at the border.

00:43:28 ◼   ► The challenge is with… you can't buy a laptop in the US, right? Because you're

00:43:32 ◼   ► gonna get the ridiculous US keyboard.

00:43:35 ◼   ► I've done it.

00:43:37 ◼   ► Can you buy a UK keyboard at the US Apple Store?

00:43:42 ◼   ► Not at the store.

00:43:43 ◼   ► You might be able to buy it online.

00:43:45 ◼   ► Online I mean and then have it shipped to wherever you're going to be.

00:43:48 ◼   ► You can buy US layout keyboards in the UK.

00:43:53 ◼   ► So of course, USA.

00:43:55 ◼   ► I'm sure you could probably do the same in the other way.

00:44:01 ◼   ► Let's just talk real quickly about the missing iPads from last week's announcements.

00:44:05 ◼   ► I think that we are all pretty much expecting an iPad Pro bump.

00:44:10 ◼   ► - Not happening yet.

00:44:13 ◼   ► - So these aren't it, rightly.

00:44:14 ◼   ► These are not that.

00:44:16 ◼   ► - No.

00:44:17 ◼   ► - So where are they, Jason?

00:44:20 ◼   ► Where is the 9.7 and 12.9 inch?

00:44:22 ◼   ► Where are they?

00:44:24 ◼   ► - I have some theories.

00:44:25 ◼   ► One theory is that there's an iOS update

00:44:27 ◼   ► that's required for them that isn't ready.

00:44:29 ◼   ► And so they are saving them for another,

00:44:33 ◼   ► it could be an event in April.

00:44:34 ◼   ► could be another press release in April or May. They could save them for WWDC in June.

00:44:43 ◼   ► They could save them for the fall for iOS 11. There's a lot of things that they could

00:44:46 ◼   ► do that they're getting a little long in the tooth in the sense that the iPad Pro 12.9

00:44:54 ◼   ► was announced in September of '15 but didn't ship until like December of '15, I think,

00:45:00 ◼   ► November of '15. Late, anyway. But still, it's been more than a year, and it's been

00:45:07 ◼   ► about a year for the iPad Pro 9.7 now. So if they're keeping that on a year-ish schedule,

00:45:15 ◼   ► you would think that there would be one soon. And there are rumors out there about them,

00:45:18 ◼   ► but we don't have them yet. I mean, the thing about Apple doing things by press release

00:45:23 ◼   ► is that they—it doesn't take a long time to do a press release. I mean, there's a lot

00:45:29 ◼   ► of work in the background. I had this conversation with Michael Gartenburg on Twitter the other

00:45:32 ◼   ► week because he used to work at Apple. There's work that goes into product launches, right?

00:45:38 ◼   ► It's not like they can flip a switch and launch a product. There's not just the product but

00:45:42 ◼   ► the crafting and all that. But the work to release a product by press release is less

00:45:46 ◼   ► than the work to release a product by event because then you have to set do event planning

00:45:51 ◼   ► and that takes time. If it's not on an on-campus venue, that takes more time and there's more

00:45:57 ◼   ► opportunity for leaks and things like that. So this is, you know, I think it's an open

00:46:04 ◼   ► question. Will Apple even do an event between now and WWDC? It's possible that they won't

00:46:08 ◼   ► and they don't need to, right? We all covered and are still covering those press releases

00:46:13 ◼   ► from last Tuesday. It'd be very easy for Apple to do that or to brief some key journalists

00:46:18 ◼   ► beforehand, although they very rarely brief journalists on unannounced hardware. But they

00:46:23 ◼   ► could try it. Apple's doing a lot of things that they didn't used to do. So, you know.

00:46:27 ◼   ► And not a lot of things that they used to do. And the new iPads, like, those new iPads

00:46:32 ◼   ► that we're talking about are not new, right? They're speed bumps, like we would call them.

00:46:38 ◼   ► They're internals upgrades, right? There's probably not going to be a new... Now, if

00:46:42 ◼   ► a 10.5-inch iPad exists, I think they would want to introduce that in an event. But they

00:46:49 ◼   ► could rev the iPad Pros now if they wanted to, like buy a press release tomorrow or in

00:46:55 ◼   ► two weeks if they wanted to, whenever, and hold that 10.5 for the fall, that's a big

00:47:02 ◼   ► step up for that product line. So maybe that's a fall product or maybe it's a WWDC product.

00:47:08 ◼   ► They could totally do that. I think for me right now, that's my best guess about what

00:47:13 ◼   ► the dividing line is between we need to have an event and not, is if it's an entirely new

00:47:17 ◼   ► product that's a computing device, not like a new trackpad or something like that, an

00:47:23 ◼   ► entirely new product, I think you want to have a stage for it and not just do that by

00:47:28 ◼   ► press release.

00:47:29 ◼   ► So I've been thinking a lot about this, right? About the iPad Pro and I'm thinking that our

00:47:37 ◼   ► expectations of what the next iPad Pros were going to be, if that was what it was, we would

00:47:43 ◼   ► have got them last week which was new processors and like the 12 like in the

00:47:48 ◼   ► 9.7 because we were expecting there to be a 9.7 and then maybe new processors

00:47:54 ◼   ► and the true tone in the 12.9 right so like they basically are the same but

00:47:57 ◼   ► they just have some speed bumps and some slight changes to them but we also had

00:48:01 ◼   ► this rumor right of this magical 10.5 inch iPad Pro so what I'm starting to

00:48:07 ◼   ► think now is that the rumor was always from the supply chain that there were

00:48:11 ◼   ► going to be three iPad Pro sizes, right?

00:48:14 ◼   ► Right.

00:48:15 ◼   ► I don't think there ever was going to be.

00:48:17 ◼   ► I think what now, like, more I've been thinking about this, what the supply chain thought

00:48:22 ◼   ► was the 9.7-inch iPad Pro was the iPad we got.

00:48:26 ◼   ► Is this one.

00:48:27 ◼   ► And that we'll get an iPad Pro announcement in June or, you know, at some point this year.

00:48:32 ◼   ► But there will only be two of them.

00:48:34 ◼   ► The 10.5 and the 12.9.

00:48:36 ◼   ► Yep.

00:48:37 ◼   ► Hopefully, maybe, and I think John Gruber said this in a piece, I haven't actually read

00:48:41 ◼   ► yet, but it's in my queue to read, that he thinks that the 12 9 would get the same kind

00:48:47 ◼   ► of design as the 10 5, and that maybe they wouldn't do any of this until after the next

00:48:53 ◼   ► iPhone is released, because the iPhone will probably go bezel as first.

00:48:58 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:48:59 ◼   ► I mean, I don't know about that, but I do think that they would release two of them together

00:49:04 ◼   ► that look the same, I think.

00:49:06 ◼   ► It could happen that the iPhone gets released first, this rumored bezel-less iPhone, followed

00:49:13 ◼   ► by the iPad.

00:49:14 ◼   ► I don't think I believe that Apple wouldn't release a bezel-reduced iPad in advance of

00:49:20 ◼   ► the iPhone because they're afraid that it will steal its bezel thunder.

00:49:23 ◼   ► Right, yeah, yeah.

00:49:25 ◼   ► I don't think that, right?

00:49:29 ◼   ► I mean, like, well, it stole the True Tone thunder of the iPhone.

00:49:34 ◼   ► The iPad has features the iPhone doesn't have and it's okay, right?

00:49:37 ◼   ► It's okay, they're different.

00:49:38 ◼   ► It has the smart connector, it has True Tone.

00:49:42 ◼   ► I also think that this iPad will not be as bezel-less as the iPhone will be.

00:49:47 ◼   ► I agree with that, right.

00:49:49 ◼   ► And it also won't be an OLED screen, I don't think.

00:49:51 ◼   ► Exactly, right?

00:49:52 ◼   ► So I just don't believe that one.

00:49:54 ◼   ► That's an argument.

00:49:55 ◼   ► It could be true, but I don't see any evidence that Apple is going to withhold, "Oh, we've

00:50:01 ◼   ► got this great new iPad ready to go but it's got kind of really reduced bezels

00:50:06 ◼   ► and we've got another product coming in six months that's got some reduced

00:50:10 ◼   ► bezels too and so we better wait and hold this product back while the other

00:50:16 ◼   ► one premieres. Nah, I mean I just I just don't I I have a hard time believing

00:50:22 ◼   ► that that is reason enough to hold that product back that maybe there are other

00:50:25 ◼   ► reasons but I think they could absolutely release that product and

00:50:29 ◼   ► Maybe it's a, you know, a hint of things to come.

00:50:32 ◼   ► That's, yeah, I think Apple could get away with it easily

00:50:36 ◼   ► and they wouldn't hold it back.

00:50:37 ◼   ► So I'm skeptical about that approach,

00:50:39 ◼   ► that thought about Apple's approach.

00:50:42 ◼   ► - This is where I think we are, right?

00:50:44 ◼   ► I think that there is this new design coming to the pros,

00:50:47 ◼   ► which will even further push the pro line away

00:50:50 ◼   ► from the regular iPad,

00:50:52 ◼   ► and that there was never gonna be a 9.7 inch iPad Pro.

00:50:55 ◼   ► There was always just gonna be this 10.5 and a 12.9.

00:50:58 ◼   ► But they're not ready yet.

00:51:00 ◼   ► And the 9.7 inch iPad Pro was actually an iPad.

00:51:03 ◼   ► And that's what we got.

00:51:04 ◼   ► - Makes a lot of sense if you think about like,

00:51:07 ◼   ► why would we have two iPads that are the same size

00:51:09 ◼   ► but have different screens, right?

00:51:10 ◼   ► Now we know the answer.

00:51:11 ◼   ► - Well, that was always the weirdest part of the rumor.

00:51:13 ◼   ► The only explanation was that it was like

00:51:15 ◼   ► what the iPhones are gonna be like,

00:51:17 ◼   ► where the iPad Pros stay the same,

00:51:18 ◼   ► but the 10.5 is this more expensive model in the middle.

00:51:22 ◼   ► But I don't, you know, even then it was like,

00:51:24 ◼   ► well, that's muddying the iPad Pro line

00:51:26 ◼   ► past the point it needs to be.

00:51:28 ◼   ► So they could just have two of them, you know?

00:51:31 ◼   ► And it makes me feel better about this idea that the 9.7 or the 10.5, in case, that size

00:51:37 ◼   ► is the iPad mini of the 12.9.

00:51:40 ◼   ► That in the end, what are the iPad Pros?

00:51:44 ◼   ► The iPad Pros are this higher resolution.

00:51:47 ◼   ► They're the big screen, and there's a big one and a little one that have the same resolution.

00:51:50 ◼   ► The apps look the same on both of them.

00:51:52 ◼   ► They have the smart connector.

00:51:54 ◼   ► Presumably, they'll both have P3 color gamut.

00:51:56 ◼   ► They'll both have true tone.

00:51:57 ◼   ► that, you know, they will have, we will have finally after a year plus of weirdness, a

00:52:04 ◼   ► rev of the iPad Pros could get them parallel, where the features are the same, like all

00:52:09 ◼   ► the features are the same except the physical size of it. And I think that would be great.

00:52:13 ◼   ► I think that would be really good for the iPad. And as we said earlier, I think you

00:52:18 ◼   ► call them the iPad, the new iPad Pros in these sizes, and you don't call them generation

00:52:23 ◼   ► whatever and you don't age out the old ones for cheaper. You do it like you do a laptop,

00:52:29 ◼   ► which is, the old ones are gone, the new ones are here, and if you want cheaper, get an

00:52:33 ◼   ► iPad. Don't get last year's iPad Pro, get an iPad if you want cheaper. But the iPad

00:52:37 ◼   ► Pro costs what it costs.

00:52:39 ◼   ► Yep.

00:52:40 ◼   ► Which I think is how you have to do it.

00:52:41 ◼   ► And they just did that to the Air, right? Like they've shown that they're willing to

00:52:43 ◼   ► do that in the iPad line. You can't buy an iPad Air anymore. That regular 9.7 inch screen

00:52:50 ◼   ► iPad there's one of them. They just cut out the old ones, put in the new one, job done.

00:52:56 ◼   ► And that's what I think we both think we would hope they'll do with the iPad Pro.

00:53:01 ◼   ► This week's episode is brought to you by Encapsula, the multifunction content delivery network

00:53:06 ◼   ► that boosts the performance of your website, protects it from service attacks and secures

00:53:10 ◼   ► it from bad guys whilst ensuring high availability. Websites of all sizes can be attacked and

00:53:16 ◼   ► this happens every single day. Criminals use giant botnets to scrape website content, they

00:53:21 ◼   ► try and break into databases and bring sites down with denial of service attacks. Encapsular's

00:53:27 ◼   ► network holds 3 terabits per second of on demand scrubbing capacity and can process

00:53:34 ◼   ► 30 billion attacks per second. I like to think of this scrubbing capacity as a really hard

00:53:41 ◼   ► working network. This is why Encapsula's network has successfully defended some of the largest

00:53:48 ◼   ► website attacks on record. And if there's anything bad happening to your website, you

00:53:54 ◼   ► can see it as it happens on the Encapsula dashboard to help you adjust your security

00:53:58 ◼   ► policies on the fly. If you are attacked, Encapsula's powerful CDN ensures that your

00:54:03 ◼   ► content is delivered to your customers fast. You don't want people bailing on your site

00:54:08 ◼   ► And with Encapsula, they would have no idea that anything bad was happening.

00:54:11 ◼   ► As a listener of this show, you can get one whole month of service for free.

00:54:15 ◼   ► All you need to do is go to Encapsula.com/upgrade as

00:54:19 ◼   ► I N C A P S U L A.com/upgrade.

00:54:22 ◼   ► This is where you'll find out more about their service and claim your free month.

00:54:25 ◼   ► Thank you to Encapsula for the continued support of this show and Relay FM.

00:54:29 ◼   ► Breaking, breaking news, breaking news as is tradition on upgrade.

00:54:35 ◼   ► as we record this, Apple has released software updates.

00:54:40 ◼   ► And this time it's worth talking about at least briefly

00:54:43 ◼   ► because they're the final versions.

00:54:46 ◼   ► Woo!

00:54:47 ◼   ► So iOS, we can't tell you about them

00:54:50 ◼   ► 'cause they just came out, but iOS 10.3

00:54:53 ◼   ► and I think Mac OS 10.12.4 should be coming out too

00:54:57 ◼   ► and the watchOS update, they're all out there.

00:55:00 ◼   ► - I think iOS 10.3 is big consumer feature

00:55:03 ◼   ► is find my AirPods, right?

00:55:06 ◼   ► - Right, that's it.

00:55:07 ◼   ► Adding AirPods to find my iPhone.

00:55:09 ◼   ► They say more ways to use Siri with pavement,

00:55:13 ◼   ► ride booking and automaker apps.

00:55:15 ◼   ► And APFS, right?

00:55:18 ◼   ► I think APFS, the new file system happens

00:55:20 ◼   ► in the background too. - Yes, yeah,

00:55:21 ◼   ► the new file system.

00:55:22 ◼   ► - But it's out now, so we'll,

00:55:25 ◼   ► we have nothing to report about it.

00:55:26 ◼   ► These are basically minor updates.

00:55:28 ◼   ► Oh, and the Mac OS update should add Night Shift.

00:55:33 ◼   ► I believe that's a Mac OS. I think that's a Mac OS feature in that update too.

00:55:40 ◼   ► That feels like, funnily enough, it feels like the Mac OS is getting the biggest feature

00:55:44 ◼   ► out of both of these releases.

00:55:46 ◼   ► Yeah, but it's a feature that was already in iOS.

00:55:48 ◼   ► I know, I know.

00:55:49 ◼   ► So they just got it laid.

00:55:50 ◼   ► I know, I know. But you know, that's really cool for the Mac, I think. You know, I'm excited

00:55:55 ◼   ► about that. Not that I'm going to be running Sierra on my iMac because I'm a scared person.

00:56:00 ◼   ► I did just put it on my MacBook though.

00:56:03 ◼   ► - I did, I just, so I'm bringing,

00:56:06 ◼   ► because I'm doing many, many, many, many podcasts

00:56:08 ◼   ► while I'm traveling.

00:56:09 ◼   ► - All the great shows you might say?

00:56:11 ◼   ► - All the great shows, turns out.

00:56:13 ◼   ► So I updated my MacBook Air.

00:56:17 ◼   ► My trusty 11 inch MacBook Air will be joining me in Europe

00:56:22 ◼   ► and, sorry, in Europe and also in the UK.

00:56:26 ◼   ► Oh, look what I did there.

00:56:28 ◼   ► - This is not, I want, you just, I don't,

00:56:33 ◼   ► we're not being thrown out of the continent, you know?

00:56:36 ◼   ► - Well, I think geography kind of threw you

00:56:38 ◼   ► out of the continent, right?

00:56:39 ◼   ► There's some water in the way there,

00:56:40 ◼   ► but I know it's painful.

00:56:42 ◼   ► So MacBook Air is updated to Sierra,

00:56:45 ◼   ► which I didn't do for a long time.

00:56:45 ◼   ► - If you wanna do this, right?

00:56:46 ◼   ► I mean, you're hardly in the best political climate.

00:56:49 ◼   ► - Oh no, I was gonna say that the dark, dark humor,

00:56:53 ◼   ► black humor is the order of the day, Myke.

00:56:56 ◼   ► That's all I can do.

00:56:58 ◼   ► So my MacBook Air, my trusty 11-inch MacBook Air

00:57:00 ◼   ► that I didn't take on my last trip to Europe

00:57:02 ◼   ► because I had a test MacBook Pro, right?

00:57:03 ◼   ► But I'm back to the 11-inch Air

00:57:05 ◼   ► and I'm gonna bring it with me.

00:57:06 ◼   ► It's great for podcast editing and it's a little more

00:57:09 ◼   ► versatile and I don't wanna,

00:57:11 ◼   ► I'm doing a lot of podcast editing when I'm there

00:57:14 ◼   ► because I'm doing OOL radio.

00:57:16 ◼   ► And so I wanna have my, I wanna have logic.

00:57:18 ◼   ► I don't wanna use my iPad for that

00:57:21 ◼   ► because I don't wanna stress it.

00:57:23 ◼   ► I'm concerned that I might let down the good people at OOL

00:57:27 ◼   ► if I have any technical problems and I don't want to do that.

00:57:30 ◼   ► And the MacBook Air is very small,

00:57:32 ◼   ► but I did upgrade it to Sierra finally,

00:57:34 ◼   ► because I just decided now is the time.

00:57:37 ◼   ► I was using it as the compare device of compare.

00:57:42 ◼   ► If I look at something and say, was this in El Capitan?

00:57:45 ◼   ► I could open my laptop and see,

00:57:47 ◼   ► and now I can't check that anymore

00:57:49 ◼   ► because I'm running Sierra everywhere.

00:57:51 ◼   ► But so I'm, yeah.

00:57:53 ◼   ► So I finally did the same thing you did.

00:57:54 ◼   ► It's laptop, laptop is on there,

00:57:56 ◼   ► but my Mac's been on Sierra for almost a year now,

00:58:00 ◼   ► 'cause you know, really since last summer.

00:58:02 ◼   ► - So last Friday, it came out via TechCrunch

00:58:09 ◼   ► that Apple had acquired Workflow,

00:58:12 ◼   ► the application that I use a lot, Federico uses a lot,

00:58:18 ◼   ► and then you use some, and you know,

00:58:20 ◼   ► I know that we spoke about it at the top of the show,

00:58:23 ◼   ► that you use it, I use it.

00:58:25 ◼   ► It's an application that many people use to help them do

00:58:29 ◼   ► additional things on iOS and power user things,

00:58:31 ◼   ► some stuff that otherwise iOS struggles with.

00:58:34 ◼   ► Kind of for anybody that uses iPads or iPhones

00:58:38 ◼   ► to get their work done, Workflow is a really,

00:58:41 ◼   ► really useful tool.

00:58:42 ◼   ► In fact, it's a useful toolbox of little things

00:58:45 ◼   ► that you can do that are made easier on iOS

00:58:49 ◼   ► because Workflow exists.

00:58:51 ◼   ► Apple has bought the app and the team.

00:58:55 ◼   ► So I think the three founders,

00:58:58 ◼   ► and then they had one engineer

00:59:00 ◼   ► who was going to work with them.

00:59:01 ◼   ► So I believe team of four

00:59:03 ◼   ► were all going over to work at the mothership.

00:59:07 ◼   ► And the app is still around.

00:59:10 ◼   ► It's actually free now.

00:59:11 ◼   ► I think it used to be like 2.99 or 4.99,

00:59:13 ◼   ► something like that.

00:59:15 ◼   ► And it is remaining in the store.

00:59:18 ◼   ► We don't know how long for,

00:59:19 ◼   ► but we assume for a significant amount of time

00:59:22 ◼   ► because they changed the business model for it, right?

00:59:24 ◼   ► They made it a free app.

00:59:26 ◼   ► Apple also made, not Apple,

00:59:29 ◼   ► but the workflow team made an update as well,

00:59:32 ◼   ► which removes some features,

00:59:34 ◼   ► change some features, add, fix some bugs, right?

00:59:36 ◼   ► There's some stuff going on.

00:59:38 ◼   ► So I wanted to ask you, Jason,

00:59:39 ◼   ► now you've, I'm sure over time,

00:59:42 ◼   ► have seen Apple acquisitions of services,

00:59:45 ◼   ► of teams, of applications, you know,

00:59:47 ◼   ► You've seen Apple Sherlock things.

00:59:50 ◼   ► - Sherlocking is a little different, but yeah.

00:59:53 ◼   ► I mean, Sherlocking, this is, somebody could argue

00:59:56 ◼   ► that workflow being bought by Apple

00:59:58 ◼   ► is preventing it from being Sherlocked

01:00:00 ◼   ► because Sherlocking is the approach where there's a feature,

01:00:03 ◼   ► we mentioned night shift earlier, right?

01:00:05 ◼   ► There were some like jailbreak apps that did that

01:00:08 ◼   ► and on the Mac, there are apps that do that.

01:00:10 ◼   ► And now Apple with this Mac release,

01:00:12 ◼   ► Apple is Sherlocking the night shift like apps on the Mac.

01:00:17 ◼   ► by building a feature that was previously

01:00:19 ◼   ► in a third party app into the operating system.

01:00:22 ◼   ► And there are extenuating circumstances there

01:00:23 ◼   ► and that's a good example.

01:00:24 ◼   ► But of course the Sherlock app was a great example of that,

01:00:27 ◼   ► where there was an app called Watson

01:00:29 ◼   ► that did a lot of web queries when you typed in search

01:00:31 ◼   ► and then Apple released Sherlock,

01:00:32 ◼   ► which did the exact same thing and did it in the system.

01:00:36 ◼   ► And that was that, you know,

01:00:37 ◼   ► so you could argue that maybe if Apple felt like they needed

01:00:40 ◼   ► to move down the path of doing iOS automation,

01:00:43 ◼   ► that they would have to Sherlock workflow.

01:00:46 ◼   ► They would have to make workflow basically irrelevant

01:00:51 ◼   ► by building their own integrated system level

01:00:55 ◼   ► automation system.

01:00:57 ◼   ► And so you could maybe make the argument

01:00:59 ◼   ► that this purchase saves workflow from being Sherlocked.

01:01:02 ◼   ► - So based on your history,

01:01:05 ◼   ► what do you think is gonna happen to workflow?

01:01:09 ◼   ► - Well, I mean, there's the pessimistic view

01:01:12 ◼   ► and the optimistic view.

01:01:13 ◼   ► I choose to be optimistic, Myke.

01:01:16 ◼   ► I choose to be optimistic.

01:01:17 ◼   ► If you look, and there are examples, you know,

01:01:20 ◼   ► Siri has been brought up that Siri was bought

01:01:22 ◼   ► and integrated into the Core OS.

01:01:24 ◼   ► TestFlight was bought and integrated into the Core OS.

01:01:27 ◼   ► The, or the core workflow of what it was meant to do.

01:01:32 ◼   ► Like TestFlight still does what it did before.

01:01:35 ◼   ► In some ways it does it way better

01:01:36 ◼   ► because it's got the power of Apple behind it now.

01:01:38 ◼   ► So I'm choosing to be optimistic.

01:01:40 ◼   ► I'm choosing to decide that the reason Apple bought Workflow

01:01:42 ◼   ► was not because they thought the workflow engineers

01:01:44 ◼   ► were really brilliant,

01:01:46 ◼   ► and they always are in the market

01:01:48 ◼   ► for more brilliant iOS engineers,

01:01:50 ◼   ► and they don't really want workflow,

01:01:52 ◼   ► but they want the people, and it's an aqua hire, right?

01:01:55 ◼   ► And the people who workflow, like,

01:01:57 ◼   ► couldn't make the business work,

01:01:58 ◼   ► and were seeking an acquisition,

01:02:00 ◼   ► and this was a lifeboat for them.

01:02:02 ◼   ► That's the pessimistic view here.

01:02:03 ◼   ► I choose to be optimistic and think Apple liked workflow,

01:02:07 ◼   ► was well aware of it,

01:02:08 ◼   ► has been working with those guys for quite a while

01:02:11 ◼   ► on getting them approved, right?

01:02:12 ◼   ► 'cause I think it was unclear whether this was

01:02:14 ◼   ► an approvable app to begin with.

01:02:16 ◼   ► - They want an ADA.

01:02:17 ◼   ► - And they want an ADA, right?

01:02:19 ◼   ► All of these ties there.

01:02:21 ◼   ► So I choose to believe that Apple is well aware

01:02:25 ◼   ► of the power of this.

01:02:26 ◼   ► And when you're looking at the iPad Pro

01:02:27 ◼   ► and you're looking at the future of iOS

01:02:29 ◼   ► as an environment that needs to offer more

01:02:33 ◼   ► to people who have more needs, the power users of iOS,

01:02:37 ◼   ► and that may not all be doing automation,

01:02:41 ◼   ► But like, if you've got a product like the iPad Pro

01:02:43 ◼   ► and you're really trying to push people

01:02:44 ◼   ► on what the iPad Pro can do,

01:02:46 ◼   ► and you think it's the future

01:02:48 ◼   ► of your professional computer platform in the long run,

01:02:53 ◼   ► which goes back to something we've talked about before

01:02:55 ◼   ► about like, is the Mac around 10 years from now

01:02:59 ◼   ► as anything but a legacy product?

01:03:01 ◼   ► What is Apple's focus on what the replacement

01:03:03 ◼   ► for the Mac is in five or 10 years?

01:03:05 ◼   ► The answer is probably iOS, because that's their new,

01:03:09 ◼   ► modern next-generation operating system and it's already here, but this is a

01:03:13 ◼   ► missing piece, right? Workflow works within the context of iOS, but it does

01:03:18 ◼   ► this thing that the system should probably do and doesn't. And that they

01:03:22 ◼   ► looked at this and said, "Why would we, you know, if we could buy these guys, we

01:03:27 ◼   ► can integrate this app into the system and give them access to stuff they don't

01:03:31 ◼   ► have access to now, and we can keep it from having access to things that are,

01:03:37 ◼   ► you know, security problems, but we can give them access to things that other apps don't get access to.

01:03:41 ◼   ► And we can use this as the foundation of our automation strategy on iOS, and maybe on macOS too,

01:03:47 ◼   ► but certainly on iOS, that this—it's proven to work, and people love it, and so why not pick it up?

01:03:53 ◼   ► Like how Twitter picked up @replies and hashtags and said, "Oh, that's a great idea, people who are not at Twitter.

01:04:00 ◼   ► Let's do that," that Apple's like, "Oh, workflow, X-callback URL, these are all—look, everybody made it work.

01:04:07 ◼   ► We're gonna authorize it, we're gonna make it official,

01:04:09 ◼   ► we're gonna consecrate that and say,

01:04:11 ◼   ► "Yes, this is how you do that," and then build on it.

01:04:14 ◼   ► So that's my optimistic view,

01:04:16 ◼   ► is that this will turn into something

01:04:18 ◼   ► that will be different and will potentially have limitations

01:04:23 ◼   ► that workflow on the outside didn't have,

01:04:27 ◼   ► but will also have a whole lot of power

01:04:30 ◼   ► that workflow on the outside did not have access to,

01:04:33 ◼   ► and that Apple will have people internally

01:04:37 ◼   ► who are pushing to open,

01:04:39 ◼   ► that's the part that really excites me,

01:04:40 ◼   ► pushing to open stuff that's just been barred,

01:04:42 ◼   ► that like you can't do that, apps can't do that,

01:04:46 ◼   ► but that the system can do,

01:04:48 ◼   ► and that like Apple's apps can do,

01:04:49 ◼   ► that potentially workflow could do,

01:04:51 ◼   ► to make this all better for people

01:04:54 ◼   ► who wanna to connect this stuff together.

01:04:57 ◼   ► And I feel like this is one of the great things

01:04:59 ◼   ► about workflow is that workflow is all about connecting apps

01:05:03 ◼   ► And the apps have been so successful on iOS,

01:05:06 ◼   ► and Workflow fits into Apple's view of the world on iOS,

01:05:10 ◼   ► which is Workflow is a tool that lets your apps

01:05:14 ◼   ► talk to each other and talk to Workflow

01:05:18 ◼   ► and build things out of the power of all of your apps

01:05:21 ◼   ► that the individual apps can't do themselves.

01:05:24 ◼   ► Like it's a good story on top of it.

01:05:26 ◼   ► So that's my optimism,

01:05:28 ◼   ► is that Apple will actually keep doing something

01:05:31 ◼   ► like workflow, maybe even keeping it called workflow

01:05:34 ◼   ► and have it be much more of a central part

01:05:37 ◼   ► in the operating system going forward

01:05:39 ◼   ► because or next to the operating system

01:05:43 ◼   ► like Swift Playgrounds is not quite in,

01:05:46 ◼   ► but it's adjacent and have, you know,

01:05:49 ◼   ► the ability to broaden and have Apple bless their approach

01:05:55 ◼   ► for power user stuff on iOS.

01:05:58 ◼   ► - Do you envision that some of this advancement

01:06:00 ◼   ► will occur if vast mental workflows previously occurred

01:06:03 ◼   ► with updates to the application?

01:06:05 ◼   ► Or do you think it's gonna be all quiet on the Western front

01:06:09 ◼   ► until a version of iOS in which workflow

01:06:12 ◼   ► is part of the system, or is like how you can download

01:06:15 ◼   ► something like iTunes U, but it's all redesigned,

01:06:18 ◼   ► it's part of the Apple system,

01:06:20 ◼   ► and it has more features all in one?

01:06:22 ◼   ► - It could be that workflow is its own thing,

01:06:27 ◼   ► and it could be that workflow sinks beneath the sea,

01:06:30 ◼   ► and it's replaced with some automation settings somewhere.

01:06:35 ◼   ► I feel like, just like with Automator,

01:06:38 ◼   ► there will be an app and it might just be called Workflow.

01:06:41 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:06:42 ◼   ► - It's a good name.

01:06:43 ◼   ► - It's great.

01:06:43 ◼   ► - I think it's a better name than Automator.

01:06:44 ◼   ► - It's way better.

01:06:45 ◼   ► - Maybe it'll get a more boring icon.

01:06:48 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:06:50 ◼   ► - Yeah, it probably will, right?

01:06:52 ◼   ► - But, you know, I think it works.

01:06:56 ◼   ► - All right, so let me ask you a question.

01:06:58 ◼   ► Assuming that Apple bought this app to enhance automation

01:07:02 ◼   ► on iOS and maybe on macOS, right?

01:07:04 ◼   ► They might bring something like this to macOS.

01:07:07 ◼   ► Why was Sal Seguin let go?

01:07:09 ◼   ► - Well, I mean, who knows?

01:07:15 ◼   ► My, who knows?

01:07:16 ◼   ► Sal maybe doesn't even know.

01:07:18 ◼   ► People at Apple know.

01:07:19 ◼   ► I look at this and I think,

01:07:20 ◼   ► Apple wants to change its approach to automation.

01:07:24 ◼   ► that the Apple, that Sal and his team,

01:07:29 ◼   ► somebody could make the argument

01:07:31 ◼   ► they were rooted in Apple script,

01:07:33 ◼   ► which is typing in big scripting language stuff like that,

01:07:38 ◼   ► somebody could make the argument

01:07:40 ◼   ► is a very kind of the '80s and '90s approach

01:07:43 ◼   ► and that they did automator,

01:07:44 ◼   ► but that it's still based on Apple events

01:07:48 ◼   ► and scripting and things like that.

01:07:50 ◼   ► And then maybe Apple has a new approach.

01:07:52 ◼   ► It could be politics.

01:07:53 ◼   ► It could be literally like these guys are gonna fight us

01:07:56 ◼   ► on keeping all this old stuff around

01:07:58 ◼   ► and we just wanna clear the board and do something new.

01:08:00 ◼   ► I don't know, I really don't know.

01:08:03 ◼   ► It doesn't make sense.

01:08:05 ◼   ► The narrative that Apple doesn't care about automation

01:08:09 ◼   ► and that's why they killed the team doesn't really follow

01:08:12 ◼   ► if they buy workflow for automation.

01:08:14 ◼   ► Instead, you have to have a narrative

01:08:15 ◼   ► that either they're not buying workflow for automation

01:08:17 ◼   ► but just take the people,

01:08:19 ◼   ► or the issues with Sal and his team

01:08:23 ◼   ► were not about automation per se,

01:08:26 ◼   ► but about maybe their approach

01:08:28 ◼   ► or their political liabilities in the organization.

01:08:32 ◼   ► I mean, it's entirely possible that there's just groups

01:08:36 ◼   ► within Apple that said, I don't like those guys,

01:08:38 ◼   ► I don't trust those guys.

01:08:40 ◼   ► And clearly they had a, from what I do know,

01:08:43 ◼   ► is that there was a problematic relationship

01:08:46 ◼   ► between that group and other parts of Apple.

01:08:48 ◼   ► and they were frustrated by it.

01:08:51 ◼   ► So I don't know.

01:08:53 ◼   ► That it's all speculation.

01:08:56 ◼   ► That's all I can say is that I don't,

01:08:59 ◼   ► I literally do not know the backstory about why they did it.

01:09:02 ◼   ► But that's my gut feeling

01:09:04 ◼   ► is it has something to do with that.

01:09:05 ◼   ► They either didn't like their approach

01:09:07 ◼   ► or didn't believe them when they said

01:09:09 ◼   ► that they embraced other approaches

01:09:11 ◼   ► or there was some political issue where they're like,

01:09:15 ◼   ► I don't want those guys around anymore.

01:09:18 ◼   ► but I don't know. I can come up with a menu of possibilities,

01:09:22 ◼   ► but that's about it.

01:09:23 ◼   ► - I think the logic is sound though, right?

01:09:24 ◼   ► Like that there was somebody disagreed with someone

01:09:27 ◼   ► when it came to looking at the future of automation

01:09:30 ◼   ► on Apple platforms, right?

01:09:33 ◼   ► Like however it was done, right?

01:09:35 ◼   ► Like whether like it was Apple didn't agree

01:09:39 ◼   ► with where Sal wanted to go,

01:09:40 ◼   ► or Sal didn't agree where Apple wanted to go,

01:09:42 ◼   ► and then maybe the workflow thing was also built into it.

01:09:44 ◼   ► Like it looks like that there was a difference of opinion,

01:09:47 ◼   ► Because as you say, clearly, clearly Apple has not said,

01:09:50 ◼   ► we don't believe in automation

01:09:52 ◼   ► because they just bought an app that does it

01:09:55 ◼   ► and are keeping it around, right?

01:09:57 ◼   ► And for what we've seen so far,

01:10:00 ◼   ► continuing to allow the team to support that application

01:10:03 ◼   ► and have set it up so it can continue, right?

01:10:06 ◼   ► So they clearly are not against automation,

01:10:10 ◼   ► but there was something about maybe the old ways of working

01:10:14 ◼   ► that they didn't want to continue with,

01:10:16 ◼   ► or whatever it might be.

01:10:18 ◼   ► Pure speculation, of course.

01:10:20 ◼   ► I will say that something kind of cool,

01:10:22 ◼   ► I think this is very cool actually,

01:10:24 ◼   ► Sal Seguin was on Mac Power Users this week,

01:10:26 ◼   ► on episode 370.

01:10:27 ◼   ► I'll put a link in the show notes

01:10:28 ◼   ► in case you wanna go and check that.

01:10:30 ◼   ► But I will ask Jason, would you wanna see workflow for Mac?

01:10:34 ◼   ► - Yes, in the long run.

01:10:37 ◼   ► Because, what I try to do is imagine

01:10:41 ◼   ► what that might look like,

01:10:42 ◼   ► and I think what it might look like

01:10:44 ◼   ► is Apple saying, here's what we're gonna do is,

01:10:46 ◼   ► Apple events are gonna be deprecated,

01:10:49 ◼   ► and we're gonna do everything through URLs,

01:10:51 ◼   ► like we do on iOS.

01:10:53 ◼   ► And you register for URLs, custom URLs,

01:10:57 ◼   ► and data gets passed in the URL string.

01:10:59 ◼   ► And you have access to the share buttons in apps,

01:11:04 ◼   ► and you have access via widgets,

01:11:07 ◼   ► and you have access via items in the finder

01:11:11 ◼   ► that basically are running the background workflow service,

01:11:16 ◼   ► and it basically replaces Automator,

01:11:19 ◼   ► and maybe it has hooks in it

01:11:21 ◼   ► for more traditional scripting stuff

01:11:23 ◼   ► like shell scripts or Apple scripts or whatever,

01:11:26 ◼   ► but that really what you're doing is saying,

01:11:29 ◼   ► in the long run, this is how we've decided

01:11:31 ◼   ► across all platforms to connect apps together.

01:11:33 ◼   ► And most modern app developers on iOS have embraced this,

01:11:39 ◼   ► so Mac developers embrace it too.

01:11:41 ◼   ► I don't know whether they would do that or not.

01:11:43 ◼   ► It depends on how much of a legacy they feel,

01:11:45 ◼   ► a legacy system they feel Mac OS is.

01:11:48 ◼   ► They might be like, you know, you got Automator,

01:11:50 ◼   ► you got AppleScript, whatever.

01:11:53 ◼   ► I do wonder if there is another shoe to drop here.

01:11:56 ◼   ► And Swift is what I keep coming back to,

01:11:58 ◼   ► which is it wouldn't surprise me if Apple pushes Swift

01:12:01 ◼   ► as the next generation of user scripting for Mac and iOS.

01:12:06 ◼   ► That they go beyond Swift Playgrounds.

01:12:08 ◼   ► They say, you know, when they talked to Chris Latner on ATP,

01:12:12 ◼   ► I think he mentioned this at one point that, you know,

01:12:15 ◼   ► Swift is designed to be everything from, you know,

01:12:18 ◼   ► server development environment to app development,

01:12:20 ◼   ► to user scripting, to, you know,

01:12:22 ◼   ► to a much simpler sort of scripting approach.

01:12:25 ◼   ► It should be able to do all of those things ultimately.

01:12:29 ◼   ► And so I do wonder about that.

01:12:31 ◼   ► If maybe that's their,

01:12:32 ◼   ► that what they're really doing here is saying, look,

01:12:34 ◼   ► we're gonna kill AppleScript.

01:12:37 ◼   ► we're gonna maybe kill Apple events on the Mac

01:12:42 ◼   ► or deprecate them because every app uses it now.

01:12:46 ◼   ► But in the long run, instead, we're gonna use

01:12:49 ◼   ► this other protocol, or even if they keep it around,

01:12:53 ◼   ► but the story is gonna be swift.

01:12:54 ◼   ► That might happen on both platforms.

01:12:57 ◼   ► Part of me just thinks, are they gonna wanna bring that

01:13:00 ◼   ► to the Mac or are they just gonna let the Mac?

01:13:02 ◼   ► This is a small version of the larger argument,

01:13:04 ◼   ► which is why break things on the Mac?

01:13:06 ◼   ► If the Mac is your legacy platform

01:13:08 ◼   ► and people use things on the Mac

01:13:09 ◼   ► because they have worked that way on the Mac for 20 years,

01:13:12 ◼   ► why break it?

01:13:13 ◼   ► Just leave it there.

01:13:15 ◼   ► Maybe add the new thing.

01:13:16 ◼   ► Maybe don't even add the new thing

01:13:17 ◼   ► and just say that's one of the great things

01:13:19 ◼   ► that's on iOS now and then walk away.

01:13:22 ◼   ► And so I guess we'll see what they're feeling about that.

01:13:25 ◼   ► But I feel like you can do everything you can do

01:13:30 ◼   ► in workflow on the Mac now, so you don't need it there.

01:13:32 ◼   ► It's just a matter of Apple wanted to come in and say,

01:13:34 ◼   ► know from now, you know, now this is the thing everywhere. And I don't know. I would say

01:13:41 ◼   ► if Apple's going to take iOS or Mac OS to a lockdown place in the future, it feels much

01:13:45 ◼   ► more like iOS, where you can't run arbitrary scripts and get to the terminal and things

01:13:52 ◼   ► like that. If they go there, then they have to have something like workflow.

01:13:58 ◼   ► Workflow on iOS is now free and seems to be at least for a while sticking about. So if

01:14:03 ◼   ► haven't tried it you should. As we said earlier in the show in the show notes

01:14:07 ◼   ► Jason put together some of his favorites, some of his favorite workflows. A couple of

01:14:11 ◼   ► weeks ago on Connected me and Federico and Steven shared some of our favorite

01:14:15 ◼   ► workflows. Ironically enough on that episode we spoke about what would happen

01:14:21 ◼   ► if workflow ever went away and I think we came to the conclusion that we didn't

01:14:26 ◼   ► think it would happen and I believe we may have mentioned the possibility of

01:14:29 ◼   ► Apple acquiring them at some point but kind of all roared buzz if it hasn't

01:14:33 ◼   ► happen by now, surely it's not going to happen. And if you want to hear me and Federico especially

01:14:41 ◼   ► I guess commiserate and opt to like and kind of hope, we're going to be talking about this

01:14:46 ◼   ► more on Connected this week as well if you want to kind of hear more on the subject because

01:14:51 ◼   ► it is so important to Federico especially, right? So I'm interested to see how he feels

01:14:56 ◼   ► on this. I feel like I've been going through like the seven stages of the creative process

01:15:03 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

01:15:03 ◼   ► - Yeah, and honestly, I don't even know

01:15:06 ◼   ► how I feel about this right now.

01:15:08 ◼   ► I really don't.

01:15:09 ◼   ► Like, I will say I don't feel very hopeful.

01:15:12 ◼   ► I just don't.

01:15:14 ◼   ► Yeah, that's kind of how I feel about this right now.

01:15:17 ◼   ► Like, I'm kind of using Workflow still every day,

01:15:21 ◼   ► and I'm like thinking about like what,

01:15:23 ◼   ► do I have anything that can do the stuff

01:15:25 ◼   ► that I'm doing here?

01:15:26 ◼   ► Like, what do I have, you know?

01:15:28 ◼   ► And I'm just thinking about it.

01:15:29 ◼   ► I'm preparing because no matter what it's gonna be,

01:15:32 ◼   ► it's not gonna be what it is now.

01:15:36 ◼   ► That could be good or bad,

01:15:39 ◼   ► but it's not gonna be what it is now in two years time.

01:15:42 ◼   ► - That I agree with.

01:15:43 ◼   ► I think it's unlikely.

01:15:44 ◼   ► Although, you know, test flight is not very different

01:15:47 ◼   ► than it was when Apple bought it.

01:15:49 ◼   ► - Yeah, and it's better.

01:15:50 ◼   ► I mean, I'm not saying it's necessarily gonna be worse,

01:15:52 ◼   ► but it's gonna be different.

01:15:54 ◼   ► And I think some of the things that I do right now,

01:15:57 ◼   ► I won't be able to do anymore.

01:15:59 ◼   ► Like I wonder will Apple embrace web APIs, like workflow?

01:16:03 ◼   ► If they take workflow away and say like,

01:16:05 ◼   ► here is our version to go forward?

01:16:07 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:16:08 ◼   ► I don't know, I don't know, I don't know.

01:16:11 ◼   ► But so if you wanna, you know,

01:16:13 ◼   ► I know Federico spent a lot more time

01:16:15 ◼   ► thinking about this than I have,

01:16:16 ◼   ► so I'm sure you have some stuff to say as well.

01:16:19 ◼   ► - Yeah, we'll see.

01:16:21 ◼   ► I choose to be optimistic, but you are right.

01:16:25 ◼   ► Things will be different, almost certainly.

01:16:28 ◼   ► but the trade-off of having an automation utility

01:16:33 ◼   ► that is already right on the edge

01:16:41 ◼   ► of what an app should be able to do,

01:16:44 ◼   ► have access as a blessed Apple app

01:16:50 ◼   ► to potentially do things that no App Store app

01:16:55 ◼   ► would ever be allowed to do.

01:16:58 ◼   ► The upside for that is huge.

01:17:02 ◼   ► And so, you know, would I make the gamble

01:17:07 ◼   ► if I had to choose of like, all right, well,

01:17:10 ◼   ► you can put out, put workflow inside of Apple

01:17:12 ◼   ► and see what happens.

01:17:13 ◼   ► And there's a chance that you're gonna have access

01:17:15 ◼   ► to all this amazing stuff,

01:17:16 ◼   ► but they might also ruin it totally or make it go away.

01:17:20 ◼   ► I don't know if I would take that bet.

01:17:23 ◼   ► You know, I might just choose to say, let's let it ride.

01:17:25 ◼   ► Let's leave it where it is.

01:17:26 ◼   ► It's all good, right?

01:17:27 ◼   ► But the potential for iOS, thinking not just about workflow,

01:17:32 ◼   ► but thinking about doing work on iOS,

01:17:34 ◼   ► the potential there for workflow

01:17:37 ◼   ► or something that is based on workflow

01:17:40 ◼   ► to harness core operating system functionality

01:17:44 ◼   ► that nobody has access to is huge.

01:17:49 ◼   ► It's huge.

01:17:50 ◼   ► Like it could potentially be a game changing feature for iOS

01:17:55 ◼   ► And yeah, it may not be the same, and for certain tasks it may cease to be functional.

01:18:05 ◼   ► But if they do it right, I might be willing to make that trade because of the power that

01:18:12 ◼   ► you can get once you're inside Apple and you're vetted by the people at Apple and you're granted

01:18:18 ◼   ► access to things that nobody outside of Apple can grant access to.

01:18:22 ◼   ► by putting it in Workflow, you're granting access to the users, to those features, and

01:18:27 ◼   ► that makes iOS better. So that's why I choose to be optimistic, is that if done right, this

01:18:32 ◼   ► will make iOS better.

01:18:33 ◼   ► I would love that. I would love that. But like, I just can't get it out on my head that

01:18:37 ◼   ► there's also a bad part. And if that bad part does happen, it seriously affects the way

01:18:41 ◼   ► that I get my work done.

01:18:43 ◼   ► I feel like what I'm telling you, Myke, is Workflow is dead, but it's going to a better

01:18:47 ◼   ► place.

01:18:49 ◼   ► Is it going to the App Farm?

01:18:51 ◼   ► I think it's going to the App Farm upstate. No, I think a better way to do it would be to say,

01:18:56 ◼   ► like, actually, I'm going to take it back to the Segoian family. So, like, Chris Segoian,

01:19:01 ◼   ► Sal's nephew, was at the ACLU. He was their security and technology lead. And he left there

01:19:08 ◼   ► to work in Washington, D.C. at a—it's hard to even explain what it is—but it's like a policy

01:19:14 ◼   ► seminar kind of place. And the idea there is, he is going behind the scenes. He's not going to be

01:19:20 ◼   ► be able to tweet anymore. He's gone behind the scenes. But he is, I'm going to assume,

01:19:27 ◼   ► he's doing good. He is teaching people in Washington about security issues so that we

01:19:33 ◼   ► don't look at politicians and their staffs in Washington, D.C. in a few years and say,

01:19:39 ◼   ► they literally have no idea what they're talking about, which is kind of how they are right

01:19:43 ◼   ► now. And that's the tradeoff. It's like, we lost access to this great voice who has lots

01:19:47 ◼   ► of smart, interesting things to say to the public, but the world may be better off because

01:19:52 ◼   ► of what he's doing now. So, you know, it's a little bit like that, which is workflow

01:19:58 ◼   ► is maybe going to go away or at least change, but it may make iOS a much better place in

01:20:04 ◼   ► the end. And I'm not saying in just that they're going to take the engineers from workflow

01:20:09 ◼   ► and have them work on a new springboard or something like that. That's not what I mean.

01:20:13 ◼   ► That would be a complete failure and a crushing disappointment if that happened. But if workflow,

01:20:17 ◼   ► the spirit of workflow affects iOS to make it far more powerful than it is now, then

01:20:23 ◼   ► that would be awesome. So hold on to that Myke, as you're in your acceptance phase.

01:20:28 ◼   ► Today's show is brought to you by Squarespace. Enter the offer code upgrade at checkout and

01:20:32 ◼   ► you'll get 10% off your first purchase. Hey, make your next move with Squarespace. We have

01:20:37 ◼   ► a unique domain, award-winning templates and more. They let you easily create that website

01:20:42 ◼   ► that you have for your next idea. Maybe you want to create a blog, portfolio, online store,

01:20:48 ◼   ► site for your restaurant. Maybe you want to create something for your local community

01:20:52 ◼   ► group. Maybe you want to make a band for your website. Maybe you want to make a website

01:20:56 ◼   ► for your podcast. It doesn't matter what you want to do, Squarespace is the all-in-one

01:21:01 ◼   ► platform that lets you do just that. You can build their pages really easily, it's all

01:21:04 ◼   ► drag and drop on the web. You can pull in and integrate with a bunch of other services,

01:21:08 ◼   ► you can then drag in these little blocks that they call them so you can have people maybe

01:21:12 ◼   ► sign up to your mailing list or you can have people buy things from you. It is the all

01:21:18 ◼   ► in one platform that lets you do any and all of that. There's nothing to install, no patches

01:21:25 ◼   ► to worry about, no upgrades needed. You don't have to worry about any of that tricky stuff

01:21:29 ◼   ► for Squarespace because they've got you covered. They have award winning 24/7 customer support

01:21:35 ◼   ► if you need any help. Their templates are beautiful. They all feature responsive design

01:21:40 ◼   ► to help you show off your great ideas.

01:21:43 ◼   ► Squarespace plans start at just $12 a month.

01:21:46 ◼   ► You can sign up for a free trial

01:21:48 ◼   ► with no credit card required by going to squarespace.com.

01:21:51 ◼   ► Then when you sign up, use the offer code upgrade

01:21:54 ◼   ► to get 10% off your first purchase

01:21:57 ◼   ► and show your support for this show.

01:21:59 ◼   ► Thanks to Squarespace for sponsoring this week's episode

01:22:02 ◼   ► of Upgrade and Relay FM.

01:22:04 ◼   ► Squarespace, make your next move, make your next website.

01:22:08 ◼   ► So we start the show with #SinnellTalk.

01:22:10 ◼   ► We end the show with #AskUpgrade.

01:22:13 ◼   ► Lucas wants to know,

01:22:15 ◼   ► do you think there will be a new iPad mini?

01:22:17 ◼   ► - Yes.

01:22:21 ◼   ► - You do?

01:22:21 ◼   ► - I do.

01:22:22 ◼   ► I think there will be.

01:22:23 ◼   ► I think it will be the iPad mini without a number,

01:22:26 ◼   ► like we said earlier, fifth generation.

01:22:29 ◼   ► And it will be, you know,

01:22:32 ◼   ► it will be down there in the iPad line.

01:22:36 ◼   ► You know, it's like there'll be the iPad and the iPad mini

01:22:38 ◼   ► and there'll be buddies.

01:22:40 ◼   ► I think that's probably the case.

01:22:41 ◼   ► I think there's still people out there who want small.

01:22:43 ◼   ► iPad minis are great for kids.

01:22:45 ◼   ► Like they're great for kids.

01:22:46 ◼   ► My son still uses an iPad mini and he's 12 now,

01:22:49 ◼   ► but like he has grown up with the iPad mini size

01:22:52 ◼   ► and you know, he has small hands and it works great for him.

01:22:56 ◼   ► So I do think there's a place for the iPad mini.

01:22:59 ◼   ► I'm skeptical about whether there's like a pro iPad mini

01:23:02 ◼   ► that needs to exist,

01:23:03 ◼   ► But now that we've got the iPad back,

01:23:07 ◼   ► I feel like there will still be an iPad mini as well

01:23:10 ◼   ► to run on side it,

01:23:11 ◼   ► but that the next version might be, you know,

01:23:14 ◼   ► might be in the same style of like cheaper

01:23:17 ◼   ► and maybe not as cutting edge.

01:23:21 ◼   ► The iPad mini has kind of already been there,

01:23:23 ◼   ► but also it's very weird, can I say,

01:23:25 ◼   ► that with the new changes,

01:23:27 ◼   ► they're only selling 128 version of the iPad mini 4.

01:23:32 ◼   ► It's weird. That's weird.

01:23:34 ◼   ► - That fact makes me think there might not be

01:23:37 ◼   ► any more after this one.

01:23:39 ◼   ► - They're just trying to get them out the door

01:23:41 ◼   ► and then close it off.

01:23:43 ◼   ► I feel like there's a use case for it.

01:23:44 ◼   ► - Why would you do that?

01:23:45 ◼   ► It seems so strange, like from pricing and stuff.

01:23:48 ◼   ► Like it's just really weird.

01:23:49 ◼   ► - Yeah, I don't know. It is weird.

01:23:51 ◼   ► Yeah, it costs more to get an iPad mini than an iPad.

01:23:54 ◼   ► Although you could argue like it's a specialty thing

01:23:56 ◼   ► and it's like you're paying for the smallness of it.

01:23:59 ◼   ► - You're getting a big story.

01:24:00 ◼   ► there's a reason, but it's like, it's just seems, yeah.

01:24:03 ◼   ► - I would have expected them to have it be like

01:24:06 ◼   ► an iPad mini for 32 only.

01:24:08 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:24:09 ◼   ► - Instead they went 128 only.

01:24:09 ◼   ► But I do, if I had to bet,

01:24:11 ◼   ► I would bet there will be a new iPad mini at some point

01:24:14 ◼   ► that will be maybe drop the number entirely

01:24:16 ◼   ► and we'll just be a buddy to the iPad fifth generation.

01:24:20 ◼   ► - Tim wants to know if we use a VPN

01:24:23 ◼   ► to protect browsing privacy.

01:24:25 ◼   ► Jason, do you?

01:24:26 ◼   ► - I don't, I'm open to the idea

01:24:29 ◼   ► because there's a lot of talk,

01:24:30 ◼   ► especially in the US, that there might be legislation

01:24:34 ◼   ► to change what your internet provider is monitoring

01:24:39 ◼   ► from your browsing information and selling that.

01:24:43 ◼   ► So I've thought about it, although of course,

01:24:47 ◼   ► the VPN provider can look at your traffic too.

01:24:51 ◼   ► So I don't know, I have a VPN.

01:25:00 ◼   ► So I have TunnelBear and one of the features

01:25:02 ◼   ► that TunnelBear has is it's got a Chrome extension.

01:25:05 ◼   ► I don't think it has a Safari extension.

01:25:07 ◼   ► The great thing about the Chrome extension

01:25:08 ◼   ► is I can VPN my web traffic only.

01:25:12 ◼   ► I can just turn on the Chrome extension

01:25:15 ◼   ► and just use TunnelBear to tunnel my web traffic.

01:25:18 ◼   ► - So it would be fine for this Skype call.

01:25:21 ◼   ► - Exactly right.

01:25:23 ◼   ► So there wouldn't be any encryption overhead for Skype.

01:25:26 ◼   ► - That's really cool.

01:25:27 ◼   ► - My Chrome thing has it.

01:25:29 ◼   ► yeah, I don't think they can do that in Safari,

01:25:31 ◼   ► but they can do that in Chrome.

01:25:32 ◼   ► And so I use that not all the time,

01:25:34 ◼   ► 'cause I don't use Chrome all the time,

01:25:35 ◼   ► but I use that sometimes and have it set up

01:25:37 ◼   ► to just go to fastest,

01:25:38 ◼   ► which is, you know, it'll find a Western US VPN

01:25:41 ◼   ► and connect and I do have that.

01:25:43 ◼   ► But, you know, I'm open to this idea.

01:25:49 ◼   ► I feel like we're gonna get to the point

01:25:53 ◼   ► when we might all need more of stuff like this.

01:25:57 ◼   ► But right now, the issues are it does,

01:26:01 ◼   ► it can really slow things down

01:26:02 ◼   ► and I have podcasts and things to do.

01:26:04 ◼   ► And so that makes me, if I could set up my router

01:26:07 ◼   ► to just encrypt everything before it even gets

01:26:09 ◼   ► to the cable modem to like encrypt it out somewhere else,

01:26:13 ◼   ► and then everything on my house would be encrypted,

01:26:15 ◼   ► I would consider it, but you know,

01:26:18 ◼   ► I don't really wanna do that with my Netflix streams

01:26:20 ◼   ► and my podcasts and things like that.

01:26:22 ◼   ► So I feel like the technology is gonna need

01:26:24 ◼   ► to be more sophisticated or at least come down

01:26:26 ◼   ► into products that make it easier for consumers

01:26:29 ◼   ► to tie into a VPN and encrypt their traffic

01:26:34 ◼   ► that's going out past their ISP.

01:26:36 ◼   ► But then if enough people do that,

01:26:37 ◼   ► the scrutiny will just move to the VPN providers

01:26:41 ◼   ► 'cause they become the, you know,

01:26:43 ◼   ► that's where the tunnel ends and they become the people

01:26:46 ◼   ► who have to safeguard your privacy.

01:26:48 ◼   ► - I use Cloak on my laptops.

01:26:52 ◼   ► So like on my MacBook, I have cloak.

01:26:57 ◼   ► And I use that for kind of when I travel

01:26:59 ◼   ► or when I'm on like unsafe wifi,

01:27:02 ◼   ► you know, like wifi that I don't trust.

01:27:05 ◼   ► I also have the app installed on my iOS devices

01:27:07 ◼   ► in case I ever wanna do the same for that.

01:27:09 ◼   ► - Yeah, I have that with TunnelBear.

01:27:10 ◼   ► I have those both set up.

01:27:12 ◼   ► And yes, when I'm out in the world

01:27:13 ◼   ► at some random wifi hotspot,

01:27:15 ◼   ► that is what I generally do is I trust having just

01:27:20 ◼   ► having just, you know, don't trust the free Wi-Fi.

01:27:24 ◼   ► - I've got to say though, I'm super intrigued

01:27:26 ◼   ► about that TunnelBear thing.

01:27:27 ◼   ► I mean, I used TunnelBear a long time ago

01:27:29 ◼   ► before I found Cloak, and then I found Cloak

01:27:31 ◼   ► to be a nicer app, nicer experience.

01:27:33 ◼   ► But that browser extension, that is really intriguing.

01:27:37 ◼   ► If I was ever gonna run something like that at home,

01:27:41 ◼   ► I don't want everything going through it.

01:27:44 ◼   ► I want my browsing history to be hidden

01:27:46 ◼   ► if I'm doing it at home.

01:27:47 ◼   ► like I'm not worried about like the network itself,

01:27:50 ◼   ► but I wouldn't want my streaming services

01:27:54 ◼   ► or my Skype or anything to be going through it

01:27:57 ◼   ► because everything would be slower.

01:27:59 ◼   ► So that's really, really interesting.

01:28:01 ◼   ► It's really interesting.

01:28:02 ◼   ► I might look into that a little bit more.

01:28:04 ◼   ► Mitchell asked, well they said

01:28:08 ◼   ► they're ditching their 15-inch MacBook Pro

01:28:10 ◼   ► because they don't need a real computer anymore.

01:28:12 ◼   ► They wanna know, the age old question,

01:28:13 ◼   ► should I get a 9.7 inch or 12.9 inch iPad Pro

01:28:16 ◼   ► and should I wait for the upgrades?

01:28:18 ◼   ► I'm gonna answer this in two parts.

01:28:20 ◼   ► If you are coming from a 15 inch MacBook Pro,

01:28:22 ◼   ► you should get the 12.9 inch iPad Pro.

01:28:25 ◼   ► Because clearly portability wasn't a thing

01:28:28 ◼   ► that you super cared about in the past, right?

01:28:30 ◼   ► Because there were like multiple screen sizes

01:28:32 ◼   ► smaller than that.

01:28:34 ◼   ► And also I think going from 15 inch to 9.7,

01:28:36 ◼   ► you would feel that.

01:28:37 ◼   ► I think you should go to the 12.9.

01:28:39 ◼   ► Plus as well, if it's gonna be your home machine,

01:28:42 ◼   ► the 12.9 is a nicer machine for the home.

01:28:44 ◼   ► because it's bigger, it's heavier,

01:28:46 ◼   ► but you don't need to carry it around all the time.

01:28:49 ◼   ► Should you wait for the upgrade?

01:28:51 ◼   ► I think probably yeah.

01:28:52 ◼   ► I mean, if you're willing to wait a year,

01:28:54 ◼   ► because we don't know how long it's gonna be,

01:28:56 ◼   ► but I would expect within the next 12 months,

01:28:59 ◼   ► there will be new ones,

01:28:59 ◼   ► 'cause who even knows anymore?

01:29:01 ◼   ► Nobody knows, no one could tell.

01:29:02 ◼   ► I would say that there will be something within the next year

01:29:05 ◼   ► I would say wait, otherwise, 12.9,

01:29:07 ◼   ► I use it every single day.

01:29:08 ◼   ► It's an old machine now based on kind of

01:29:10 ◼   ► iOS device refreshes, but it's still fantastic.

01:29:15 ◼   ► Mine works great and it works great every single day.

01:29:17 ◼   ► You could probably get a decent price on a refurb one now.

01:29:21 ◼   ► That might be a good route to go down.

01:29:24 ◼   ► - Yeah, but we do have hopes

01:29:25 ◼   ► that there would be a new one soon, so.

01:29:28 ◼   ► - I say within the next three to six months.

01:29:31 ◼   ► - So if you can hold out,

01:29:32 ◼   ► if you can hold out, I would hold out for the new one

01:29:35 ◼   ► because the old one is more than a year old now.

01:29:38 ◼   ► - Yep.

01:29:40 ◼   ► Chris asked, "What is Apple doing on the 18th of April?"

01:29:44 ◼   ► Now this sounds like a very peculiar question, unless you know that at WWDC last year there

01:29:49 ◼   ► was this big wall of text, and it had all these little phrases and funny things and

01:29:55 ◼   ► jokes and inside jokes and that kind of stuff.

01:29:57 ◼   ► But one of the kind of small sentences said, "Hello Tuesday, April 18th, 2017."

01:30:04 ◼   ► It was the only reference to any date on this huge wall of code is what Apple called it,

01:30:10 ◼   ► but it was there. Tuesday, April 18th, 2017. I'll put a link in the show notes. Federico

01:30:15 ◼   ► tweeted it. He took a picture of it. Federico has kind of many feelings. I think his one

01:30:21 ◼   ► has been that that is when Campus 2 will officially be declared open. And I think he said that

01:30:26 ◼   ► for a while as well. Like that was one of the big things. Many people think that there

01:30:30 ◼   ► might be an event on that day that Apple was been thinking about or some big product introduction

01:30:36 ◼   ► that they knew about was definitely going to be on that date basically 10 months before.

01:30:41 ◼   ► What do you think? I mean that whatever it is Apple is surely sure about something happening

01:30:47 ◼   ► on that day. I mean why it would be such a like why would you say that day? Why would you not say

01:30:53 ◼   ► the day that it was that WWDC opened or whatever? Tuesday April 18th 2017. What do you think's

01:30:59 ◼   ► happening, Jason? I think it's somebody's birthday or somebody's anniversary and they picked a date

01:31:10 ◼   ► in the future for that phrase. I think it's that simple. I don't think there's anything going on.

01:31:18 ◼   ► You don't think Apple's doing anything? They just picked it?

01:31:21 ◼   ► Yeah, that far in advance. Apple doesn't schedule stuff that far in advance. No way.

01:31:27 ◼   ► So you think that we'll come to April 19th and nothing would have happened on the 18th?

01:31:32 ◼   ► Well, I'll put it this way.

01:31:33 ◼   ► If something happens on April 18th, it is not going to happen because Apple knew that

01:31:37 ◼   ► they had text on the wall at WWDC 2016 that mentioned that date, and boy, they have to

01:31:42 ◼   ► do something that date, or it'll disappoint all of the conspiracy theorists on the internet.

01:31:46 ◼   ► No, but what if it was something that...

01:31:49 ◼   ► It's not impossible that something could have been set a year in advance to happen on that

01:31:54 ◼   ► day.

01:31:55 ◼   ► It's not necessarily a product launch, but it could be anything.

01:31:57 ◼   ► I don't... it could be anything, but what would it be? What would it be that Apple

01:32:03 ◼   ► cared enough about to put in secret text in the "Hello" banner at WWDC that they

01:32:09 ◼   ► knew about months in advance? Ten months in advance?

01:32:14 ◼   ► It could have been the day that they declared Open Compass 2. It's a construction

01:32:19 ◼   ► project. I mean, they could have a pretty... But why would you do that ten months...

01:32:22 ◼   ► No, yeah, construction projects slip. Everything slip.

01:32:26 ◼   ► Okay, well, all right, fine, fine.

01:32:28 ◼   ► I think that it is not impossible

01:32:31 ◼   ► for a company to assume something,

01:32:33 ◼   ► a date of some description, 10 months in advance.

01:32:37 ◼   ► I don't think that is an impossible thing to do.

01:32:39 ◼   ► But we'll find out. - I do.

01:32:42 ◼   ► - Brent asked, "Unlike last week's Brent,

01:32:47 ◼   ► "I have too many podcasts that I listen to."

01:32:49 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:32:51 ◼   ► The Brents are fighting now.

01:32:53 ◼   ► How do you decide which podcasts to drop from your queue?

01:32:57 ◼   ► Now I take this not so much as a podcast to unsubscribe to,

01:33:01 ◼   ► but just like episodes I see

01:33:03 ◼   ► and I don't want to listen to them.

01:33:05 ◼   ► I don't have as much time to listen to podcasts as I used to.

01:33:09 ◼   ► This is something that has started to happen to me

01:33:12 ◼   ► gradually over time.

01:33:13 ◼   ► When I quit my job, I was still listening to lots of stuff,

01:33:16 ◼   ► but I don't know what it is,

01:33:18 ◼   ► but in the last maybe six months or so,

01:33:21 ◼   ► I seem to have less and less time to listen to podcasts and I don't know why or at least

01:33:25 ◼   ► less and less consistent time to listen.

01:33:28 ◼   ► So these days I tend to, I have a small handful of shows that I listen to every single episode

01:33:35 ◼   ► of and then outside of that I just look at the descriptions and choose if I want to add

01:33:39 ◼   ► it to my queue in Overcast queuing feature that I use and really like a lot.

01:33:45 ◼   ► I do pretty much the same thing which is I will take shows, I have a priority playlist

01:33:50 ◼   ► that some shows, and then I have a list of all the episodes,

01:33:53 ◼   ► and I will go in and add things to the queue,

01:33:55 ◼   ► and if somebody says, "This is a great episode,"

01:33:57 ◼   ► I'll add those to the queue, and then eventually,

01:33:59 ◼   ► if there's a podcast that I like episodes of,

01:34:02 ◼   ► but I find that I'm never getting to it

01:34:04 ◼   ► unless there's an extraordinary circumstance,

01:34:06 ◼   ► I will turn that to, you know,

01:34:08 ◼   ► basically don't add new episodes,

01:34:10 ◼   ► but I'll keep it in my overcast list,

01:34:12 ◼   ► and I will occasionally pop in there,

01:34:14 ◼   ► or somebody will say, "Oh, did you hear this episode?"

01:34:16 ◼   ► And then I'll add it in that way manually.

01:34:19 ◼   ► So there's like a set of levels that go down

01:34:23 ◼   ► of like priority one, two, three, four,

01:34:26 ◼   ► in terms of like how I approach them.

01:34:28 ◼   ► But I have way too many shows too.

01:34:29 ◼   ► And I decide, bottom line is how do I decide?

01:34:31 ◼   ► I decide what are the ones that get me excited

01:34:33 ◼   ► when there's a new episode and they go to the top of my queue

01:34:36 ◼   ► and then I put those in as like,

01:34:38 ◼   ► yes, those always go in this queue

01:34:40 ◼   ► and they always go to the top if they're that.

01:34:43 ◼   ► And then everything else is just fighting for

01:34:45 ◼   ► when I look at my queue and nothing is moving me

01:34:48 ◼   ► or there's nothing in it, then what do I go to next?

01:34:51 ◼   ► If you want to find out more about our show notes for this week's episode head on over

01:34:55 ◼   ► to relay.fm/upgrades/134.

01:35:00 ◼   ► Thanks again to our sponsors this week, the fine folk over at TextExpander from Smile,

01:35:04 ◼   ► Encapsular and Squarespace.

01:35:06 ◼   ► If you want to have your question answered on the show you can always tweet with the

01:35:10 ◼   ► hashtag #askupgrade and we'll grab it and if you want to suggest a question for me to

01:35:14 ◼   ► ask Jason in our new Snell Talks segment at the beginning of the show, it can be fun little

01:35:18 ◼   ► questions, esoteric things, just stuff that you want to know about Jason Snell's day or

01:35:22 ◼   ► week or weekend, use the hashtag SnellTalk and I'll pick those up as well. And we appreciate

01:35:28 ◼   ► your participation on the show as always. Any follow up and stuff that you send, we

01:35:32 ◼   ► always love it and thank you for continuing to do that each and every week. If you want

01:35:36 ◼   ► to find Jason online, he's over at sixcolors.com and @jsnell, J-S-N-E-L-L-L. And next week

01:35:42 ◼   ► he'll be in my office. I am @imike and we'll be both back next week in person for the beginning

01:35:51 ◼   ► of our European tour, which we seem to be doing on an almost yearly basis. Until next

01:35:59 ◼   ► time, say goodbye Jason Snow.

01:36:01 ◼   ► Goodbye from sunny and blue sky California.

01:36:04 ◼   ► You had to get the weather in, didn't you?

01:36:06 ◼   ► I did.

01:36:06 ◼   ► [MUSIC PLAYING]

01:36:10 ◼   ► [ Music ]