131: It's Fine, Dude


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:08   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode 131.

00:00:13   Today's show is brought to you by Encapsula, Squarespace, and Casper.

00:00:18   My name is Myke Hurley, I am joined by Jason Snell.

00:00:21   Hi Myke, how are you?

00:00:23   I'm very well, Jason Snell. How are you?

00:00:26   just fine, just fine, waking up, starting my week, doing it right, which is upgrade.

00:00:31   Upgrade is the way that I start my week. Couldn't be better.

00:00:34   "There is no better way to start a week than to follow up upon the previous week."

00:00:39   That's right. "So we would like to do that by conducting

00:00:41   follow up." Old business, you clear the decks, get the

00:00:45   old stuff out and then move on with your week. Exactly right. Or your show, in the case of

00:00:49   this show. "A selection of listeners of Upgradients

00:00:53   wrote in to recommend an iPhone 6/7 bumper.

00:00:58   This was in Ask Upgrade last week,

00:01:02   we were talking about cases,

00:01:03   and I mentioned that Adina was looking for a bumper case

00:01:07   when she originally got her iPhone 6S.

00:01:09   And this one that has been recommended is by,

00:01:13   it's called the RhinoShield bumper.

00:01:15   11 feet drop tested, no bulk shock spread technology,

00:01:19   thin white light weight protection,

00:01:21   slim rugged copper black. I was gonna say it sounds like something you'd you coding

00:01:26   you'd put on your your truck. Rhino shield. Rhino shield protecting you from the heaviest

00:01:34   developments. It's not made of actual Rhino is it? I don't think so. Okay good that's

00:01:39   good because they're endangered. I'm gonna assume it would be more expensive than $24.99

00:01:45   if it was made from real Rhino I'm just gonna go out on a limb and say that. Okay. Nobody

00:01:49   should own a real Rhino case for their fun. It's completely unnecessary and just bad.

00:01:58   Anywho, this case does exist though and I assume it's made of some kind of plastic.

00:02:03   You can get it in a bunch of colours, it exists out there in the world if you're looking for

00:02:08   it. I showed it to Adina and she said that she was happy with her silicone case now because

00:02:12   she likes the colour of it. She's got like one of the muted purple ones that they made

00:02:18   while back so she's happy with that. I'm still very eager to replace mine as the crack which

00:02:24   happened in the side of my case has now exposed some kind of thread which is very peculiar. I

00:02:32   assume that there is some kind of thread that goes through these cases to kind of hold it all into

00:02:38   place or I don't know what it is inside these silicon cases so I am eagerly awaiting new cases

00:02:46   which I assume will be dropping in March if there's an event in March to go along with new watchbands.

00:02:53   That'll be this month, it's March now.

00:02:55   Hooray!

00:02:55   Talking about what could or could not appear in March, MacRumors had an article go up

00:03:03   where they got some quotes from people that were sitting in a room during a Q&A session at Apple's

00:03:10   shareholder meeting that they held last Tuesday and basically there are just a couple of quotes

00:03:17   that came from Tim Cook during this which are interesting because they signify something.

00:03:24   So Cook said a couple of things. "You will see us do more in the pro area," he said.

00:03:31   "The pro area is very important to us. The creative area is very important to us in particular.

00:03:37   think that something we've done or something that we're doing that isn't visible yet is

00:03:41   a signal that our priorities are elsewhere. So this is somebody asked Tim Cook a question

00:03:46   about like Apple's commitment to the pro market which has been a beat and drum recently and

00:03:52   this was their comment that they're working on something right pro Mac hardware of some

00:03:57   description updates to existing pro Mac hardware. We don't know what it is but it is at least

00:04:03   you know you're always looking for that thing where they say that there's something because

00:04:07   something means that it's not nothing?

00:04:09   Yeah, this is very much like that thing where we have the Tim Cook quote in the Apple-wide

00:04:15   Q&A message board internal discussion thingy.

00:04:18   Yep.

00:04:19   And it's sort of then everybody goes and does their Kremlinology on it and say, "What did

00:04:23   he mean when he says the pro area?

00:04:25   Why when he said area, does that signify a particular..."

00:04:31   know, and it goes and it goes and everybody turns about it and I think the result of this

00:04:36   is exactly the same result as of the last one which is the people who believe that he's

00:04:40   sending a signal saying literally we do care and we're working on stuff, we'll believe

00:04:46   it and the people who believe that when Apple says they're committed to pros and the creative

00:04:50   area they don't mean the way that those people want to define it and that everything

00:04:56   is awful and this is just more proof that Apple is doing terrible things. And what's

00:05:01   -- so, you know, again, short of Tim Cook saying, "Yeah, we know the Mac Pro has been

00:05:08   out there for too long and we're working on something to replace it and it will be a Mac

00:05:12   Pro and we will announce that sometime soon but you're going to have to wait." Short of

00:05:17   him saying that, which he's not going to say, maybe -- I mean, if they really wanted to

00:05:23   send that signal, they would have like Phil Schiller do an interview somewhere and he

00:05:26   would drop that somewhere. But they don't want to do it, so they're not going to do

00:05:31   it. And Tim Cook is certainly not going to do it. And so we're left with this sort of

00:05:34   like, everybody's like, "What is happening?" And Apple's like, "No, it's good. It's good.

00:05:39   It's fine, dude. It's good. We're working on it. It's all good." And then you can either

00:05:43   respond without saying, "No, it's not all good, dude." Or you can say, "Cool, man. Cool.

00:05:49   "Alright, cool, I'll wait."

00:05:50   And that's what's happening right now.

00:05:52   - Like my reading of this when I see stuff like this

00:05:54   is that on the face of it, it's true.

00:05:58   I believe that Apple have more professional-focused hardware

00:06:03   for the Mac in the future.

00:06:05   I don't think it necessarily means a Mac Pro,

00:06:08   because there might not ever be another Mac Pro,

00:06:10   but because there's no Mac Pro

00:06:12   doesn't mean there's no professionally-focused Macs.

00:06:15   I think those two things are mutually exclusive.

00:06:17   Sure. And I mean, the analysis of the existence of the Mac Pro and product line even now,

00:06:23   my shorthand version of something we talked about on a previous show is, the reason that

00:06:27   system is there, even though it's very, very, very old, is there's some other product that's

00:06:31   coming that Apple thinks is going to speak to the kinds of customers who buy that product.

00:06:35   Now, it doesn't necessarily mean it's a new Mac Pro that they're working on. It could

00:06:38   mean that it's some other product, people speculate about like a high-end iMac or something

00:06:42   like that, where they can sell that as their Pro system and people might scoff at that.

00:06:47   that that'll be Apple's official take on what they're doing here. We just don't,

00:06:51   you know, again, we don't have any more information other than Apple saying basically

00:06:55   "We're aware of your concerns and we're working on stuff" and just because, you

00:06:59   know, and the last quote is fascinating because that's like, even if you see us doing things

00:07:06   or don't see us not doing things, don't worry about it. Like, alright, I'm okay.

00:07:12   It's a very confusing quote to read. I will read it again.

00:07:17   "Don't think something we've done or something that we're doing that isn't

00:07:21   visible yet is a signal that our priorities are elsewhere."

00:07:24   Yep.

00:07:25   It's quite a humbling of that one.

00:07:28   Things we've done in the past or things that we're now doing but you can't see,

00:07:34   both of those things don't mean anything. All right, okay. Okay, fine. Look over there,

00:07:40   he could have said, "A butterfly," and then ran off the stage.

00:07:44   Cook also answered questions about a possible convergence of the Mac and iPad lines. He

00:07:49   said, "Expect us to do more and more where people will view the iPad as a laptop replacement,

00:07:54   but not a Mac replacement. The Mac does so much more. To merge these worlds, you would

00:07:59   lose the simplicity of one and the power of the other."

00:08:03   This is... so this doesn't say anything new at all, but what it indicates is that at least

00:08:10   publicly, Apple is not backing off at all on its stated, repeatedly, philosophy that

00:08:18   the Mac is going to be the Mac, and iOS is going to be iOS, and they're not creating,

00:08:22   as famously was said, a toaster fridge. That they don't believe that you merge the Mac

00:08:27   and iOS, you put the Mac on a path and iOS on a different path, and they are their own

00:08:32   things. And they've said that for a while. I remember when I interviewed Phil Schiller

00:08:36   and Craig Federighi about the 30th anniversary of the Mac, we talked about that, and they

00:08:40   were very clear, like, the Mac keeps on going and it's going to be its own thing. And honestly,

00:08:45   pretty much Apple's behavior since then has all been, everything we've seen, I would argue,

00:08:51   fits that narrative, fits that philosophy that they've had. Even something like the

00:08:56   Touch Bar, right? Instead of making a touchscreen, they put this new thing on the Mac that's

00:09:00   like a keyboard extension. That is them thinking we're not going to just take iPad features

00:09:05   and put them on the Mac. The danger here, as we've discussed before as well, is that

00:09:10   the future of computing actually is a merged kind of thing, and it's not as extreme as

00:09:15   Apple's two devices. But I think Apple's feeling quite understandably is they've got their

00:09:21   next generation platform, it's iOS, that one will continue to evolve and then the Mac will

00:09:25   continue to be this existing platform that they don't want to transform into something

00:09:31   it's not. So this isn't news other than that it doesn't indicate any change publicly.

00:09:40   They could say this now and then in six months be like, "Aha! But now we've completely

00:09:45   changed." But they've been consistent on this point for a while and this is Cook reinforcing

00:09:49   the existing talking point. So if you're trying to read the tea leaves about Apple

00:09:53   changing its Mac philosophy, there's no T to read here.

00:09:57   And the coded message when Tim says "laptop" he means PC. Right? He says like we see it

00:10:05   as we're going to keep doing things to view it as a laptop replacement but not a Mac replacement.

00:10:10   He doesn't mean laptop Macs, he means laptop PCs, like Windows PCs I think.

00:10:16   I guess, you know, who knows what he means here, because he could, who knows, he could

00:10:22   be referring to users who don't require the complexity and power of a Mac because they

00:10:30   aren't using them for those purposes. That could be part of what he's saying here. Yeah,

00:10:37   I don't know. There is a narrative here that Apple pushes very much, which is like we're

00:10:42   talking about swamping Windows PCs, not the Mac. But the Mac is part of it too.

00:10:50   So we mentioned the Twitterific Kickstarter a few weeks ago. They've got about nine days

00:10:56   left to go on the campaign and they're just under $4,000 shy of hitting their $75,000

00:11:05   goal. So it's looking very likely that the project will fund now.

00:11:10   Yes. Please go support it, by the way, if you haven't. That would be great if you could

00:11:15   support it because I would like to use a new Twitter effect for Mac. But most kickstarters

00:11:21   that get to this point do fund. And in fact, the last few days of a kickstarter are really

00:11:26   weird. Sometimes the funding, it goes way up because there's a psychology of once something

00:11:31   is funded, you're putting money into something that you know is going to happen. And some

00:11:36   people actually really like to jump on board on something that's almost funded or has funded.

00:11:42   So it'll be interesting to see, because they have that big stretch goal where they wanted

00:11:46   to get to 100,000 so they could guarantee this extra set of features instead of having

00:11:52   it be kind of a wait and see.

00:11:56   That's a long ways off, right?

00:11:58   Because that's an extra 25,000.

00:12:00   Then again, Kickstarter psychology is weird, and it may very well be that they have a chance

00:12:07   at that still because once you get close to your goal, things really get strange on Kickstarter

00:12:12   and can be very dynamic. And you have these, that Girl Scouts game project from San Diego,

00:12:19   I thought that was not going to fund at all. And it blew out its funding in the end, in

00:12:26   the last week. So I don't know how Kickstarter works, but they've got a very good chance

00:12:30   to at least meet their goal. And then we'll see about their stretch goal.

00:12:33   Yeah, I think they're definitely gonna meet the goal. I think that that's pretty good at this point.

00:12:39   But I'm not so certain that they're gonna hit the $100,000 range.

00:12:45   I think that just percentage-wise and just how much money that is, I think that that seems unlikely, personally.

00:12:54   Yeah, I don't know. Like I said, I'm not as pessimistic because I have seen lots of Kickstarters

00:13:01   do pretty dramatic things in the last handful of days. So it's definitely not a sure thing

00:13:10   at all but I think that they've still got a shot at it because like I said, not everybody

00:13:15   just kind of hears about it, pledges on day two and then lets it fly. A lot of people

00:13:21   are doing stuff at the last minute or after it's funded.

00:13:25   We'll see. We'll see.

00:13:27   We'll see. We'll see. We'll know because we won't know this time next week. Well we might

00:13:31   I think if they're at like $77,000 a week, now it seems really unlikely.

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00:14:58   this show and Relay FM.

00:15:02   Alright so last week the Wall Street Journal reported the following in an article about

00:15:08   the next iPhone and I will quote from the Wall Street Journal.

00:15:12   The iPhone will use USB-C port for the power cord and other peripheral devices instead

00:15:18   of the company's original lightning connector.

00:15:43   Later in the week, Ming-Chi Kuo of KGI Securities stated that he believes all three new iPhones

00:15:49   launching in 2017 will support fast charging by the adoption of Type-C power delivery technology

00:15:56   while still retaining the lightning port.

00:16:00   So as great as a former fast charging will be for the iPhone, which is awesome because

00:16:05   fast charging is brilliant, that is not what the Wall Street Journal seem to report.

00:16:11   So what's going on here, Jason Snell? Who do you think has gotten this correct? Are

00:16:18   we going to see a USB-C port on the iPhone or are we just going to see a lightning port

00:16:24   with USB-C charging speeds like there is on the 12.9 inch iPad?

00:16:29   Well the problem is that we don't, is the way that that Wall Street Journal article

00:16:34   is written is

00:16:37   really strange and

00:16:41   if you take it at its face and parse it carefully

00:16:44   it seems like USB-C is

00:16:47   going to be used for

00:16:50   the power cord and other peripheral devices instead of the lightning

00:16:55   connector

00:16:55   instead of the lightning connector. Now the way that's phrased you could say

00:16:59   did they really mean that it's gonna be for the power cord

00:17:03   that connects to the Lightning connector but that's not what the article says and

00:17:07   then Ming-Chi Kuo's story says well

00:17:09   it's gonna be Lightning port but they're gonna use presumably they're gonna use

00:17:13   USB C technology, the faster charging stuff and maybe that also means that

00:17:18   the

00:17:18   USB C, it'll be a USB C cord and adapter in the box

00:17:23   that's possible but we've got dueling

00:17:27   reports here. I did an article on Macworld about this

00:17:32   where I basically thought this and it was like the afternoon that this came out that I sat down and

00:17:37   I was like, all right, let's make a list case for case against lightning because that seemed like a

00:17:45   good place to start of like, what are the reasons to keep it and do they feel good enough and what

00:17:51   are the reasons to get rid of it? And how does that feel? How do those feel? That doesn't

00:17:55   necessarily mean who's right, right? That's just more like the exercise that anybody inside Apple

00:18:00   would be making about should we make a change or should we stay with what we've got.

00:18:06   So let's come to that article in a moment.

00:18:08   Okay.

00:18:09   But before we do, I want to kind of lay our thinking on the table here.

00:18:14   Having seen Ming-Ji Kuo's response, where do you think this is going to fall?

00:18:22   Do you think that it's a new port or just new technology within the port?

00:18:26   With the Wall Street Journal report, I viewed it as 50/50.

00:18:30   With Ming-Chi Kuo, I think it's less likely to happen, because Ming-Chi Kuo's response suggests that the weird feeling we all got about the Wall Street Journal report being worded strangely may have had a basis in fact.

00:18:50   that perhaps the journal report was mistaken or badly written or their information was

00:18:58   unclear and then Ming-Chi Kuo is diving in and saying, "Well, no, no, actually, here

00:19:03   are the details of how this works." And it really does lead you to believe that the

00:19:09   weird wording of the Wall Street Journal was because of a misunderstanding on the part

00:19:13   of the source or on the part of the writer to mention the power cord and peripheral devices

00:19:19   that perhaps they were thinking of it in a different way and that Ming-Chi Kuo is specific.

00:19:24   So, I don't know, Ming-Chi Kuo's track record is pretty good, so that makes me feel a lot like this

00:19:31   is a lot less likely because it plays into our worries about how the journal reported it.

00:19:37   >> I don't really understand how that quote got into the report from the journal,

00:19:44   Because whether it's ambiguous or correct or not is one thing but like it barely doesn't make any sense

00:19:50   Yeah, like if you know anything about the iPhone just like the way that's all worded is just so strange

00:19:58   USB-C port for the power cord and other peripheral devices

00:20:02   Instead of the company's original lightning connector. Okay, it's just really strange like port for the power cord

00:20:09   Like, it's... why would you say "for the power cord"?

00:20:12   Well, "port for the power cord and other peripheral devices"

00:20:15   it's something where you're trying to explain to a lay audience about what the...

00:20:19   what the cable is.

00:20:21   And what a phone plug is used for, which is charging and peripherals.

00:20:26   And so the way that the writer phrases it is "port for the power cord and other peripheral devices"

00:20:30   I understand why they phrased it this way.

00:20:32   It's trying to... I feel like it's trying to...

00:20:36   take something we all know and then explain it in a weird way that does

00:20:41   it does kinda make sense right? I mean what is what is a port on a phone for?

00:20:45   It's like for you to plug in the power cord or plug in some other peripheral

00:20:48   device that's what it's for. I get it.

00:20:50   Instead of lightning like it's it's weird but can be read as being perfectly

00:20:55   clear it's the weirdness that makes you go

00:20:57   is that what they really meant to say? And of course we're all a little skeptical of

00:21:00   the idea that Apple would dump lightning

00:21:02   after it seems like it was just yesterday it was five years ago but it

00:21:05   it seems like it was just yesterday that they introduced Lightning. Somebody pointed out,

00:21:09   by the way, that the iPhone had the dock connector for five years and it's had Lightning for

00:21:15   coming up five years, and that was scary. But the reality is, of course, the dock connector

00:21:18   predates the iPhone by quite a lot and the ecosystem was already pretty strong. So I

00:21:24   think it was like 12 years of the original dock connector and only five years of Lightning.

00:21:30   So I am kind of tracking with you on this one that like no matter what it was, you know,

00:21:37   when it came out I thought this makes sense to me and we're going to talk about that and

00:21:41   I still think that it actually does make a bit of sense to move to the USB-C on the iPhone.

00:21:47   I think that the way that this has been reported, you know, as we said, definitely seems to

00:21:52   indicate that there was just a misunderstanding because what KGI are saying makes a ton of

00:21:58   sense which is that they will be fast charging via the Type-C power delivery technology.

00:22:04   That actually makes a lot of sense.

00:22:06   The 12.9 Pro iPad Pro already had that, but you had to go get a USB-C cable and a USB-C

00:22:13   charger to do it, but it was already there.

00:22:15   So that's technology that already exists in the product line that would make sense to

00:22:20   spread everywhere.

00:22:21   And then if you read it all, if you then take that thought and read it back with the Wall

00:22:27   Street Journal then what it probably means is that we're gonna get USB-C and

00:22:32   lightning right on the cables rather than USB-A and lightning because I think

00:22:38   the USB the power delivery technology is dependent on a USB connection USB-C

00:22:43   connection I should say so I think that that's what that meant right is that the

00:22:47   cord is actually what's gonna be different and that might be how it was

00:22:50   misunderstood as far as I'm aware the power delivery stuff is you it's part of

00:22:55   the USBC standard.

00:22:56   So this strikes me--

00:22:59   I've got a question about where this Wall Street Journal

00:23:01   comes from, this report comes from.

00:23:03   Famously, it is generally thought

00:23:05   that Wall Street Journal information is often procured--

00:23:09   is provided by Apple.

00:23:11   Apple leaks to certain respected sites.

00:23:17   New York Times, Wall Street Journal,

00:23:19   leaks to them information that they want out there.

00:23:21   The headphone jack, a lot of people

00:23:22   thought might have been a tactical leak.

00:23:24   But we don't really know if Apple leaks tactically or when they leak tactically and how they

00:23:28   do that.

00:23:30   But this doesn't make sense as a tactical leak because it's so weird and you'd think

00:23:37   they would have gotten it right, unless this is exactly what they're saying.

00:23:41   But it does kind of make sense, if you think about it, if this is a shaky leak, right?

00:23:48   If the Wall Street Journal is cultivating its own sources and it got somebody who knows

00:23:53   a little and in a game of telephone has gotten it wrong. And that is, I think, the best explanation

00:24:01   for what the journal reported if Ming-Chi Kuo was right, is that it was either a source

00:24:08   inside Apple who was not an official leaker and got it wrong, or was so circuitous that

00:24:14   the journal reporter misunderstood, which is bad reporting, right? If you misunderstand

00:24:18   it and go with it anyway, or if you fill in the details of the thing you don't understand,

00:24:23   it's not good, that's not good at all. Or it's a different source outside of Apple,

00:24:26   somewhere in the supply chain, and they got it wrong, or they got it vague enough that

00:24:30   it was misunderstood.

00:24:31   It's weird.

00:24:32   Yeah, it's always been like my thought that the controlled leaks are coming from a part

00:24:38   of Apple where they're supposed to, right?

00:24:40   Yeah, right. Now that's exactly right. Where it's like, let's just leak this and lay the

00:24:45   groundwork out there for people to understand we're going to remove the headphone jack,

00:24:49   and they can all get it out of their systems before we do it.

00:24:53   So my assumption on how something like that would work would be that Apple would see it

00:24:57   before it was published?

00:24:59   I would think so or at least there would be one of those "read it back to me" kind

00:25:04   of things, right?

00:25:05   Can we just get, can everyone just get on the same page about this please?

00:25:08   Can you just confirm this to me?

00:25:09   Let's all get on a call and you can just read this all over the phone to me.

00:25:15   It does feel like that's how it would go, right?

00:25:17   Because you're quite privy at that point to this interesting information.

00:25:22   So this obviously did put about a lot of think pieces, including yours, about what the pros

00:25:32   and cons are of this. So why don't we just have that discussion anyway because I still

00:25:36   think that it is interesting. So, irrespective of what is happening, should Apple adopt a

00:25:44   USB-C port for the iPhone or should they keep lightning? So here are a couple of things

00:25:49   that I pulled out of your article that I thought were interesting. So Apple would lose the

00:25:53   exclusivity afforded by the MFI program if they were to do this, right? So they could

00:26:00   still have a program, you know, like the only way you can be sold on the Apple store or

00:26:04   in the retail store is by going through the program. And there may be some other, you

00:26:08   know, additional benefits that they could get. You could get the little made for iPhone

00:26:12   thing on the box right no matter what but they wouldn't be able to say that everything

00:26:19   had to go through the program which is I think technically how it should be right now of

00:26:23   course there will always be people that try and like reverse engineer the lightning pot

00:26:27   but you know you shouldn't right and I think that Apple could have some legal recourse

00:26:32   for that because they have this program in place so if they were to lose the MFI program

00:26:38   like so by bringing in USB-C they would lose the MFI program as a thing that all Lightning

00:26:45   connected accessories have to go through. They would then lose full ecosystem control

00:26:50   which they currently have and also licensing royalties. They're kind of the two key things

00:26:55   that they would lose. What do you think is more important to Apple in this?

00:27:01   I don't, well, okay, so I don't think the licensing royalties are a big deal to them.

00:27:10   I think it's control.

00:27:11   Yeah, I do too.

00:27:14   I think that the reason that they like it, I mean, Lightning was created in part because

00:27:21   Apple wanted that small reversible thing to replace the big dock connector and USB-C wasn't

00:27:28   going to happen soon, right?

00:27:31   USB-C was predated by Lightning by several years

00:27:34   in terms of being out in the market.

00:27:36   They could do it.

00:27:37   They could make it happen.

00:27:38   And they got to decide what Lightning was

00:27:41   and how it worked.

00:27:42   And everybody had to follow that because it

00:27:44   was only for their devices.

00:27:46   It was built for Apple's needs.

00:27:48   And then Apple has a licensing program

00:27:49   which lets them control it.

00:27:51   It is the playbook.

00:27:52   It's the dock connector playbook.

00:27:53   It's like, we control this.

00:27:54   We control everything about it.

00:27:56   So I think that's the reason.

00:27:57   not, "Oh, you know, imagine the royalties that we won't get." I would actually say

00:28:01   that I, that the whole thing, but especially the royalty part, it feels like a Steve Jobs

00:28:06   thing. I mean, I've talked about it many times. I've seen it, I saw it happen. Steve

00:28:12   Jobs really did believe that everybody who was making third-party accessories for the

00:28:17   iPod and then the iPhone was kind of a parasite and that they were building businesses on

00:28:22   Apple's greatness and so they wanted to control them and take money from them. That

00:28:26   Because Jobs was obsessed with that, I think. He just really believed that. And I think

00:28:31   today's Apple kind of maybe doesn't care so much about any of that. Like, doesn't have

00:28:35   that. I think that was a Jobs quirk that reflected itself in Apple's policies, and I don't, I

00:28:40   just don't think it's as big a deal now. And part of my evidence for that is, you know,

00:28:49   if Apple didn't like USBC, it wouldn't have been, you know, it's already embraced USBC

00:28:55   on the Mac. Thunderbolt is inside USB-C now. USB-C ports are all that are on the MacBook

00:29:02   Pros and on the MacBook. So it's very clear that they like this technology, it just wasn't

00:29:07   ready yet. So, I don't know. I don't think this is a very strong argument. And in fact,

00:29:12   I might argue that it comes under a larger argument, which is the strongest argument

00:29:17   for keeping lightning, which is that it's already there and you can just let it ride.

00:29:22   that's a that's a powerful argument. Inertia is a powerful argument. Just keep

00:29:26   it like it is and don't don't put in any extra effort. Just let it be what it

00:29:31   already is. You don't have to make a transition. You don't have to pay the

00:29:34   cost to make a transition. And this falls into that, which is the program exists.

00:29:38   It's already there. It's something we understand. Let's just keep doing it.

00:29:43   So if Apple were to adopt USB-C, they would also lose the flexibility to enhance or

00:29:48   restrict the connectors they see fit, right? Because USB-C is an open standard, so they

00:29:53   would lose some of that. Which I guess they're losing now with Thunderbolt falling into the

00:29:59   USB-C realm rather than the other way around.

00:30:01   Well, I mean, Thunderbolt was Intel, right? But Apple worked with them on it. But USB-C,

00:30:06   you know, Apple's in the USB-C consortium too. I don't think this is a big deal because

00:30:10   I think lightning's not going to change. I feel like Apple can do what it wants with

00:30:14   but if you ask me, is Apple, if somebody wrote in and said, "Why aren't you guys

00:30:19   talking about just doing Lightning 2?" It's like, they're not going to do Lightning 2.

00:30:23   They've got Lightning, it does what it does, USB-C does some other things, and it's different,

00:30:28   but if they're going to make a change, they're absolutely going to go to USB-C. 100%, right?

00:30:32   But the question is, are they going to make a change? I don't think...

00:30:35   One change would be adding fast charging, though, right? Like, I mean, it's not a big change because

00:30:39   they already have it, but they'd be changing it for the whole line. But that was the thing that

00:30:43   that they added to Lightning afterwards.

00:30:45   That's a change to it, not like a change to the port,

00:30:48   but an adaptation to it.

00:30:50   - Things get added to the specs all the time,

00:30:51   and that has to do with the individual implementation

00:30:53   on the devices, though.

00:30:54   And that's not, you know, Apple still controls that,

00:30:57   because Apple controls what the iPhone does,

00:30:59   and can say, "This is how this works."

00:31:01   And that doesn't change if they go to USB-C.

00:31:02   So I don't think this is an issue.

00:31:04   - Do you think transition costs would stop Apple

00:31:07   from doing this?

00:31:07   You know, like the transition that we had

00:31:10   from the 30-pin to the Lightning,

00:31:12   would Apple want to do that again?

00:31:15   Like so, well, I say so soon,

00:31:17   but you know what I'm getting at.

00:31:20   - Well, I think what I would say is,

00:31:23   I don't think, I'm not sure Apple cares.

00:31:25   If Apple has, I think if Apple has other good reasons

00:31:29   to make a change, Apple's just gonna make the change.

00:31:31   I think we saw that with the headphone jack thing.

00:31:34   It's like, if Apple wants to do it,

00:31:35   they don't really care if people scream about,

00:31:36   oh, but my thing is incompatible.

00:31:39   Because as far as Apple's concerned,

00:31:41   in the end it's about making the best iPhone possible and keeping things around, keeping

00:31:48   old accessories around but in return your iPhone isn't as good as it could be.

00:31:53   I'm just saying this is the Apple approach here.

00:31:55   It's like not an option.

00:31:58   Making the best iPhone is the most important thing, not avoiding rocking the boat of other

00:32:03   things.

00:32:04   Keeping in mind also that they would be going to not another Apple designed proprietary

00:32:09   accessory but to an accessory that is going to increase in acceptance and is already out

00:32:18   there in a lot of devices and will lead to a world where presumably everything is plug

00:32:25   compatible in that hotel room accessory kind of world. I don't think it's going to be a

00:32:31   pain to make a transition and people are going to complain would ever stop Apple.

00:32:37   So Apple are adopting USB-C and their other products now, like even for and as the only

00:32:43   means of power, right? So the MacBook and the MacBook Pro, like it wasn't just so much

00:32:48   that they added this as a new version of the USB, like the new version of USB, right? They

00:32:53   didn't replace just like A with C and then kept MagSafe. They're like, "Nope, we're going

00:32:58   all in. Like this is the power cable now too."

00:33:01   Everybody talks about the headphone jack. Nobody talks about the other cable transition

00:33:04   that happened last year, which is Apple killed MagSafe.

00:33:07   MagSafe was owned by Apple, created by Apple,

00:33:10   defined by Apple.

00:33:11   They redefined the spec at one point

00:33:12   to make it thinner and lighter, and they just killed it.

00:33:14   They're like, nope, it's gone.

00:33:15   We're just gonna use USB-C now.

00:33:17   That was an Apple-designed spec that was made unnecessary

00:33:21   by this standard that they embraced.

00:33:23   - And it would be pretty great, right,

00:33:24   to have just one charger needed

00:33:27   for all of your Apple accessories,

00:33:28   like all of your Apple products, your phone,

00:33:31   maybe your iPad, right, 'cause that's another one

00:33:33   in this argument, would they move on the iPad?

00:33:35   I think that there's still a possibility for that

00:33:38   before the iPhone anyway.

00:33:40   I think me and you have spoken about that a bunch

00:33:42   on this show, about the possibility of Apple

00:33:45   either adding a USB-C port or replacing on the iPad line.

00:33:49   - Right, 'cause if the iPad Pro is truly

00:33:50   a computer level device, why doesn't it have USB on it?

00:33:53   Right, because then it could take advantage

00:33:55   of all those things.

00:33:55   I think this is high on my list of reasons

00:33:57   why Apple would kill lightning, if not now, then soon.

00:34:01   then you know at some point here why it might be inevitable

00:34:04   is how envision

00:34:07   an Apple product line, not just a Mac or iOS product line, but an Apple product line

00:34:12   where you know in this year or next year or whatever

00:34:16   whenever this happened every port is the same.

00:34:20   Like every port is the same. Some of them are faster, some of them have

00:34:23   Thunderbolt 3 and some of them don't and it varies device by device. But

00:34:28   Imagine if like you had one power plug for any laptop or iOS device.

00:34:35   You know, you had one, you buy one adapter, a video adapter, and it works on your iPad

00:34:40   and your iPhone and your Mac.

00:34:42   Imagine that.

00:34:43   Like, USB-C can make that happen.

00:34:45   That's pretty great, right?

00:34:47   But to get there, you've got to dump USB-A and Thunderbolt and MagSafe and Lightning.

00:34:55   But the end result would be good.

00:34:56   It would be great.

00:34:57   The end result would be nice.

00:34:58   to just have just the one charger, right?

00:35:01   It could be for anything.

00:35:02   - Yeah.

00:35:03   - So you would just never have to worry about it.

00:35:04   You've always just got this one.

00:35:06   - I just did that.

00:35:06   I did an event this weekend where I was presenting

00:35:10   and I had to have a Mac and an iPad to present with.

00:35:13   And I had one charger with two cables,

00:35:16   but I brought the USB-C charger

00:35:18   and it was a MacBook with Touch Bar and an iPad Pro

00:35:21   and I just changed the cables.

00:35:22   And I was like, "Oh, this is great.

00:35:24   I only need one charger.

00:35:25   I need two cables still,

00:35:27   but I only need the one charger because the USB-C works on either.

00:35:30   But even better would be just popping one cable.

00:35:33   That would be even nicer, right? One cable.

00:35:37   I think that's a big case for Apple

00:35:41   going to USB-C. So what would you prefer Apple to do? Like, the choice is yours, right?

00:35:47   They come to you and they're like, "Jason, we just cannot

00:35:50   weigh this up. The only person

00:35:53   Who can answer this for us is you and we will do whatever you say?

00:35:58   What would you what would you tell Apple to do I think Apple should do it, honestly

00:36:04   I think they should do it because when I talk about reading that article the afternoon that this came out. I

00:36:09   I

00:36:11   thought the article would be I

00:36:13   Was gonna do case for K's against I thought at the end I would come out and say hmm see

00:36:21   Don't do this Apple. It makes much more sense to stay and instead I got to the end

00:36:26   I'm like, oh it makes much more sense to go to USB C

00:36:28   Like the I find the arguments because I tried to make both arguments

00:36:32   I find the arguments far more persuasive to go to USB C than to stay with lightning far more persuasive

00:36:38   So maybe they won't do it now. Maybe they'll do it later. Maybe they'll never do it

00:36:43   But like once their product line is in motion

00:36:45   Once the Mac is moving to USB C

00:36:47   It kind of makes sense for their iOS devices to do it certainly makes sense on the iPad Pro

00:36:51   and there's just a lot of benefits. So I tell them to do it and I know, you know,

00:36:56   again, nobody likes being yelled at, nobody says, "I've got all these

00:36:59   lightning adapters that I'm going to have to throw away." I get it, it stinks,

00:37:02   right? But we move through it and if you step back further and say, "What

00:37:08   would Apple do?" It's like, did Apple care? I mean, Apple didn't care about the

00:37:12   headphone jack, right? And we all survived, but also let's just take it to that

00:37:15   point where Apple didn't care. Apple just eliminated the headphone jack from the

00:37:19   iPhone. They just did it. And that sounds like a company that would do something like

00:37:23   this, no problem. Like, I don't think they would even hesitate to do it if they felt

00:37:26   that it was the right time to do it. And I'm actually a little surprised by Ming-Chi Kuo's

00:37:32   report because it suggests that Apple doesn't think it's the right time to do it, but I

00:37:35   don't know a lot about Apple's hardware design time horizons. It's possible that even if

00:37:40   Apple decided last fall that USB-C was the future and they should just make the move,

00:37:45   might not mean the 2017 fall iPhone has time to be made as a USB-C device.

00:37:53   Yeah, I bet they could make that decision on the MacBook Pro later than they could on

00:37:57   the iPhone.

00:37:58   Yeah, and they might have initially gone down that path with the Mac, but then it takes

00:38:02   them a long time to design those iPhones and they have to do them in volume and they're

00:38:07   in a very small space.

00:38:09   So I don't know.

00:38:10   But it makes sense.

00:38:12   So if I were at Apple and making the call here, I would say, "Yes, absolutely. If not

00:38:17   in 2017, then what is our master plan to get to a point where USB-C is what we use everywhere,

00:38:23   because we should get there?" And if, you know, you can make an argument like, "Oh,

00:38:26   they just took out the headphone jack, they just got rid of MagSafe." It's like, "Yeah."

00:38:29   I mean, if you want to wait, you could wait, but at some point, you can stand on the edge

00:38:35   of the pool forever. At some point, you just have to jump. And I feel like that's basically

00:38:40   where Apple is with USB-C. So I would say, I don't know when they would be capable of

00:38:46   making the change, but I think it's probably the right change to make.

00:38:49   I would like it to. And if Apple asked me, because you were busy that day, I would tell

00:38:55   them to do the same thing. And I know that, again, as you exactly said, it's frustrating

00:39:00   to replace stuff, but I feel like replacing cables this time would be better than when

00:39:05   we did it last time. Because all we did was replace lightning cables for our iPhones and

00:39:11   then later on we, our keyboard and mice would charge with these things too, and for our

00:39:15   iPads, right? But this time you'd be making the change for like all future devices, for

00:39:22   like of all manufacturers. Think of how many things in your life are charged by a form

00:39:27   of USB. They will all go to this.

00:39:31   Android phone is going to have USB-C. Eventually I think every laptop and PC will have it.

00:39:38   Everybody's going to this, right? And I think there's something to be said for the fact

00:39:41   that I know Apple likes having the power a little bit of like, "Oh, well, hotels have

00:39:48   lightning plugs in them. Isn't that great?" But if every phone is on USB-C, it makes stuff

00:39:55   like what accessories people buy for libraries and community centers and phones a lot easier

00:40:00   too. That's not a business decision for Apple, although it does help, I think, because it

00:40:03   gets a lot of the weird adapter problems out of the way.

00:40:07   And you know what hotels have in, Jason? Hotels have 30-pin dock connectors is what they have.

00:40:12   They do. It's so true. They bought those, they all bought those iHome clock radios like

00:40:17   the year before the dock connector was killed. And I would like it if they just jumped.

00:40:22   This weekend I found in my drawer a bunch of dock connector adapters. I'm like, "Oh,

00:40:28   I've spent money on those, I've got to put those away somewhere where I don't keep picking

00:40:33   them up and being like, "Whoop, I can't use that."

00:40:35   But it happens.

00:40:37   I had to actually run to the Apple Store on Friday night and buy a USB-C to VGA adapter

00:40:42   because I realised that I was going to do this presentation on the Touch Bar MacBook

00:40:46   Pro and I didn't have an adapter for it.

00:40:50   So with all of this talk about this USB-C thing, just to wrap up, we'd both like it

00:40:57   but don't think it's happening this year. I think it's probably the bow to put on that right now,

00:41:03   right? I'd say it's more like I went from 50/50 to thinking it's like 75/25 in favor of it not

00:41:11   happening because Ming-Chi Kuo's sources tend to be pretty good and this seemed like a very specific

00:41:15   bat down of that report and yeah so I don't know. And the reporting was shaky at best for it.

00:41:22   the writing certainly was. Yeah, that's a bad way of putting it. But there has been,

00:41:27   amongst all of this, the Wall Street Journal thing and many rumors that we've seen recently,

00:41:32   and we haven't addressed it on this show, this third iPhone. So the rumor is that there will be

00:41:39   the 7S and the 7S Plus as normal, and it may be in a different color. And now I guess they're

00:41:45   going to have faster charging. But there may also be a third model of phone that sits on the very

00:41:51   top from a price perspective and from a build quality perspective that it will be an iPhone

00:41:59   with an edge to edge display, it will be about the size of the iPhone 6 but the OLED screen

00:42:05   that it will have will be about as large as the plus with no physical home button but

00:42:12   what's being referred to as a function row at the bottom which I guess will probably

00:42:16   be something like a cross between Android's on-screen buttons and the touch bar. What

00:42:22   do you think about this iPhone, which I am going to continue to call the iPhone Pro for

00:42:28   the time being?

00:42:29   Okay, it's an interesting idea. We've heard buzzing about the idea that there would be

00:42:34   this new model that's a super fancy OLED edge-to-edge, packing a lot of pixels into a fairly small

00:42:41   space. Right, isn't it the idea that it's like the size of an iPhone 7 but with the

00:42:46   the pixels of an iPhone 7 Plus. Yeah, and it's about the pixels, like it would be the

00:42:51   3x, right, is the idea. It would be the 3x, but like the screen will be mostly as large

00:42:57   as a Plus, but the bottom is kind of cut off to be reserved for a function row. Right.

00:43:04   I don't know, it's interesting, it sounds like something Apple would do, there's a lot

00:43:08   talk about it. I think it's inevitable that Apple will try. It's kind of funny

00:43:16   when you see Apple's priorities, like you are seeing other phone makers push

00:43:21   really hard at getting as much bezel out of the equation as possible. And Apple

00:43:26   has done some of that but it has not pushed it necessarily as far as some of

00:43:31   its competitors and I'm sure they had their reasons in terms of product design

00:43:36   and usability, but it does seem inevitable, right? Just as it's inevitable that Apple

00:43:40   wants phones to be thinner, that Apple also would want to maximize screen space. We know

00:43:46   that they've been thinking about it for years. We've seen them file patents about, could

00:43:50   we put sensors and cameras underneath a display, how would that work, right? Just because,

00:43:55   why would you do that? The answer is, well, if you get rid of the Touch ID sensor and

00:43:59   you get rid of the front-facing camera or hide them under the display, you can make

00:44:04   the display bigger. So it seems like this is a direction that they've wanted to go,

00:44:10   it's an inevitable direction for the iPhone for them to go in that, go there. The question

00:44:14   is just where's the tech? Is the tech far enough along now that Apple feels confident

00:44:19   that they can do it at iPhone volumes for a price that they feel like they can sell

00:44:24   the iPhone for? Even if it's a thousand dollars or whatever because that is that is actually

00:44:28   not that much more than an iPhone 7 Plus is today. It's just another step up, right? So

00:44:35   it's not, it seems perfectly reasonable to me and then the question to me just becomes,

00:44:42   is Apple capable of making that device yet? And I don't have any way to judge that. And

00:44:48   these reports suggest that they do, or at least they're trying to. And that would be

00:44:52   a cool product. It would be, it would be, my thinking about it when I heard, I was listening

00:44:57   to ATP talk about it last week and I've read a bunch of stuff that people have written

00:45:00   about it. I keep coming back to the idea that one of Apple's great value propositions is

00:45:06   you're buying the future today. Like, we've got it before other people do. This is cooler.

00:45:12   Everybody's going to have this in two years, but right now we've got it and it's cooler

00:45:15   than any phone you've used before and you'll love it and you'll pay to get it, but it's

00:45:20   going to be great. And I think that this phone is that perfectly written, right? That this

00:45:26   is that device which is yeah it's more expensive than even the 7 plus but it's

00:45:33   this amazing awesome new thing so that that feels very Apple in a way if they

00:45:39   can if they can pull it off I think that's the real question is how do you

00:45:41   pull it off where do you put the touch ID sensor where do you put the speaker

00:45:44   where do you put the front facing camera how do you get all of those in a bezel

00:45:48   list device and does that hurt the you know hurt the perceived quality of the

00:45:54   phone to the point where it's not worth it. If you're like, oh well we don't have

00:45:57   touch ID anymore or touch ID is hiding on the back but if you mount this in your

00:46:00   car you can't reach the touch ID sensor anymore or you know whatever the

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00:48:51   So Myke, I have to ask you.

00:48:53   Yes.

00:48:54   Would you want this iPhone that is the size of a 7 but with the pixels of a 7 plus or

00:49:06   would you turn your back on it because it is not big enough?

00:49:10   I would be upset that it wouldn't be big enough, honestly.

00:49:13   Straight up, like it would,

00:49:14   I've been thinking about it, right?

00:49:16   Like it will be a smaller screen than what I'm used to

00:49:19   and that would frustrate me,

00:49:20   but I would want the best iPhone

00:49:23   and that would be the best iPhone.

00:49:25   Like I have thought that, and I believe honestly,

00:49:28   that the Plus is the better of the two iPhones.

00:49:30   Like it is the better one for me.

00:49:31   And this one will be, it will be better looking,

00:49:34   it will have more technology in it,

00:49:36   and it will be close enough from a screen size perspective

00:49:39   to give me what I want. It will be a downgrade, but it won't be as far a downgrade as it

00:49:44   would be for me to go to the regular size model. Or like an SE or something. It would

00:49:50   be a shame. It would be a shame. I would lose screen space. But I think that it would be

00:49:54   a net win overall.

00:49:56   Oh man, I'm trying to imagine you using an iPhone SE now. Oh, it just makes me smile.

00:50:00   I would be...

00:50:01   You'd be like a giant holding a little tiny iPhone in your hand is what I'm kind of picturing.

00:50:06   I would like type all of the keys at once when I use the keyboard.

00:50:12   Here is some news that I found interesting and I'm a little bit sad that it's probably

00:50:17   going to be US only probably forever.

00:50:19   YouTube TV!

00:50:22   Coming soon, YouTube will be offering a new package.

00:50:25   You'll be able to stream a bundle of approximately 40 channels including ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC,

00:50:31   ESPN, FX, Disney Channel, National Geographic and obviously many more.

00:50:35   also includes YouTube Red content, some that are missing, some channels that are missing,

00:50:41   HBO, CNN, TBS, Comedy Central, MTV and Discovery are some of the bigger missing packages. There

00:50:46   is an infinite cloud DVR, you can just choose anything to be recorded, and you get 6 user

00:50:53   accounts for one price, it's $35 a month, cancel anytime. Initially YouTube TV will

00:51:00   be supported over Chromecast with the YouTube app and smart TVs to follow. What do you think

00:51:06   of this?

00:51:07   It is the… I'm a little surprised that Apple hasn't done a deal like this yet,

00:51:12   and I suspect they will at some point. It is another one of these…

00:51:15   I think Apple haven't been able to, not that Apple haven't wanted to, right?

00:51:19   Well, I don't know. I think that Apple probably has a particular level of service that it

00:51:24   once and a bundle that it wants to get that maybe it can't get and it's decided

00:51:29   to... it wouldn't surprise me if they have like been able to do a bundle but they

00:51:33   thought it was dumb like a bad product and so they just didn't put it out. It is

00:51:37   also possible that everybody's afraid of Apple and now they'll make a deal with

00:51:40   Google and then Apple will be like, "Okay, give us the same deal you gave to Google

00:51:44   because you've already done this so we might as well get going." But it's a

00:51:49   skinny bundle it's like Sling and DirecTV Now or whatever it's called, DirecTV

00:51:54   something or other. Skinny Bundle means it's just not all the channels, right?

00:51:57   Yeah, that's the idea. It's still a bundle because cord cutters a lot of times

00:52:01   have the vision is like I only want to buy the shows I want or the channels

00:52:05   that I want and that's not what you get because what happens is one of these big

00:52:08   entertainment companies owns 15 different cable channels and the reason

00:52:12   that ESPN and Disney Channel you know are on there and ABC is because that is

00:52:18   the deal that Disney has made which owns all of those things, right? And the reason

00:52:23   that Comedy Central and MTV aren't on there is that Viacom has not made that

00:52:29   deal with them and those are their channels and a lot of times they

00:52:34   make money because what they do is instead of selling you ESPN for a price

00:52:38   they sell you these or like TBS and TNT and CNN for a price they sell you

00:52:45   ten channels for a price and they want you to take all ten and pay

00:52:52   for all ten. And if you don't get all ten, you don't get any of them. And that's a way

00:52:56   for them to bundle those things together and make money. And that's just sort of how the

00:52:59   TV world works, at least right now. So it's a challenge to assemble something that has

00:53:04   all the channels people want that doesn't cost what your cable costs. And that's what's

00:53:09   going on here. Now what's interesting about YouTube TV is that they've got the major broadcast

00:53:13   networks on board and they've got this Cloud DVR thing, which basically means that you,

00:53:17   even though you don't have a DVR at all, it's a streaming service, you have what behaves

00:53:23   like a DVR, which I think some of the other streaming services with the skinny bundles

00:53:27   don't have, which is like, if you miss the show, you can just back it up, you can pause

00:53:31   it, you can play it back, like, it works like a DVR where you have kind of infinite playback

00:53:36   of anything. And that's a cool feature. For people in Chicago, San Francisco, and one

00:53:43   other market, maybe Philadelphia, one of the big stories about this is that it includes

00:53:47   the local regional sports channels, which in this case, you know, it's owned by Comcast

00:53:52   actually, but Comcast has signed on to this plan, so cord cutters, potential cord cutters

00:54:00   in the Bay Area who wouldn't cut the cord because they didn't want to miss like baseball

00:54:04   games or football games, you could actually do it. This is a kind of a big deal that this

00:54:11   gives you access to the Giants games without having a traditional cable TV package.

00:54:17   But is this the first one that's done that? Is this the first time that that's been able

00:54:20   to be done?

00:54:21   I believe this is the first time that any of these has offered the local regional cable

00:54:25   channels. I might be wrong, but it's a big, for me, like in the Bay Area, I believe it's

00:54:29   the first streaming service to do that for here. And that means that anybody who's like,

00:54:33   "Well, I still have cable because I want to watch the Giants games." Well, now you don't.

00:54:37   YouTube TV will actually supply you with all of the Giants baseball games. And that's a

00:54:41   big, that's a big deal. Now you're getting, you know, you're getting their commercials

00:54:44   and all that and your fee is going in part to Comcast for that channel. So they're

00:54:50   getting their money one way or the other. So it'll be interesting to see what Apple

00:54:53   does with this. It's an intriguing service but it's missing a lot of channels as all

00:54:57   of these services are. And it goes back to that same thing that I've said time and

00:55:01   again which is they want their money. They're going to get their money one way or another.

00:55:05   So if you want all the channels that you love that you pay for cable for, to get them streaming

00:55:11   you will have to pay probably pretty much the same thing. And it feels like ultimately

00:55:15   this is where this is going. Ultimately everything is going to go into TVs. You're not going

00:55:21   to need a traditional cable box to watch all the same channels. You'll just need to pay

00:55:27   for the channels. But the dream of being a cable cutter and saving a lot of money while

00:55:33   keeping all the channels you want to watch, I think that was always just a fantasy.

00:55:38   Yeah, it's like the cable cutting thing is just, do you want to have your DVR be software?

00:55:44   Because that's basically going to be the only difference, right?

00:55:47   Yeah, I mean pretty much.

00:55:48   Like I've got that Comcast Xfinity app on my iPad that gives me, other than the DVR

00:55:54   which it doesn't currently give me, but it gives me access to every single channel and

00:55:57   on demand that I have from, so I don't even, you know, at that point do I need a TV even?

00:56:05   that I have to have their TV service in order to get that. So it's close.

00:56:09   I really do hate the idea of cloud DVR. Like it really annoys me. Why does that even need

00:56:16   to be a thing? Why can't I just choose anything of anything always? Why do I have to like

00:56:23   implicitly say record this?

00:56:25   I don't think you do. I'm not sure that that's actually the case. I think that this infinite

00:56:30   cloud DVR may mean that if you missed that show that was on CBS last night, you can just

00:56:35   go watch it. You can just be like back the clock and watch it. I think that's what this

00:56:39   means. Which is that, and that's what some of the other services don't have, which means

00:56:43   they're recording everything, of course, as they stream it, and then they're giving you

00:56:46   access to it. Which is big, right? Because then, then if you hear, "Oh well, there was

00:56:50   that show on Fox yesterday," you'll be like, "Okay," and you just wind it back, and then

00:56:55   you got it.

00:56:56   That's the Google model, right? They wouldn't be recording things for people individually.

00:57:01   They record it once and then deliver it to everybody else.

00:57:04   This is like Google Reader, that's what it did.

00:57:08   - Yeah, you don't record the same video stream

00:57:10   9,000 times, right?

00:57:11   You record it once and then you make it available

00:57:13   to 9,000 people.

00:57:15   And that's the idea here.

00:57:16   So I think, it looks like a pretty good service.

00:57:19   I mean, it's $35 a month, so it's not,

00:57:22   again, you're not getting away with something

00:57:24   in a lot of ways, but it's got a pretty good package.

00:57:27   I'm telling you, for sports fans in the Bay Area,

00:57:31   this is a big deal because that would allow them to cut the cord if they wanted to and

00:57:37   still have their baseball games or football games. And more than that, if they already

00:57:43   are a cord cutter and are lamenting the fact that they can't get those sporting events,

00:57:48   here they are. And the sports stuff being locked away has been one of the real defenses

00:57:54   that the traditional cable TV industry has had against streaming. And those walls are

00:58:00   starting to come down like it's not all the way down yet but those walls are

00:58:04   starting to come down with with this realization that there's a large

00:58:07   audience that wants to stream them and will pay you for them and at some point

00:58:13   you just as a business I think they just have to give in and say okay if you want

00:58:17   to stream it and you'll pay us will let you do that too but the problem is that

00:58:21   a lot of sports rights fees especially are they they exist as a defense against

00:58:28   cable cutting and so the people who spent a lot of money for those rights are not going

00:58:33   to open up streaming because they paid the money so that you have to keep giving them

00:58:38   cash for their cable company. So it's in flux. It's going to take probably a decade at least

00:58:47   to sort all this out, maybe more. So you are a sports fan in the Bay Area. Yeah. Is you

00:58:52   true TV in your future? No, absolutely not. Because we watch TV. I have a TiVo. I have

00:59:00   a DVR. I'm not interested in cutting the cord because the cost of putting back everything

00:59:06   that I want to see would be not much different and not as an inferior environment to that,

00:59:16   to what I've got now, where I've got it all on my TiVo.

00:59:19   So, no, I'm not interested.

00:59:22   - So the idea of this cloud DVR,

00:59:25   it's not necessary for you, you're just used to setting it.

00:59:28   - I have a DVR, right?

00:59:29   And it's got all the channels.

00:59:31   - Right, you have to set it though, right?

00:59:33   But you're cool with that.

00:59:35   - Yeah, I'm cool with that.

00:59:36   And also I'm cool with the channels

00:59:37   that they don't show that I get, right?

00:59:39   Because that's the other part of this deal

00:59:41   is they don't have deals with everybody.

00:59:42   And so there's a whole bunch of stuff missing.

00:59:44   So, yeah, for me, it's, I've got, you know, I've got all the channels that I want to get

00:59:51   and I've got them going through a DVR.

00:59:53   And yeah, the Cloud DVR is great.

00:59:54   It's a great idea.

00:59:55   I'm a little surprised that Comcast hasn't just offered that yet.

01:00:01   And it may be that on Comcast DVR you might even get something like that.

01:00:04   I know that Dish Network did that for their DVR, the idea that it just records prime time

01:00:11   TV and doesn't tell you and you don't know it's there but if you go back and

01:00:16   it's got like the last few days and if you go back and say oh I missed that

01:00:18   show that DVR will be like oh yeah I actually have that here it is and you

01:00:24   can watch it. I'm a little surprised that that more I'm surprised TiVo doesn't do

01:00:28   that too if I've got free space if it doesn't just secretly record prime time

01:00:33   TV and make it available to me later if I am sad that I missed something but I

01:00:39   I think that's all coming, right?

01:00:40   I mean, 'cause why would you not?

01:00:42   Again, this is where it's all going, right?

01:00:44   Eventually, if you pay, you should get access

01:00:47   to the show you paid for.

01:00:51   And we're getting there, right?

01:00:53   It's just not all, not all the pieces aren't there yet.

01:00:55   - It's funny to me, like,

01:00:56   with the way that people describe TiVo,

01:00:58   that they couldn't just record it

01:00:59   and then just let you just download it from them.

01:01:02   Like, you know, if you want it,

01:01:04   you could just go in and download it from TiVo,

01:01:07   as opposed to recording it if you missed it.

01:01:10   - Yeah, that would be the infrastructure though.

01:01:13   Like if you've got free space,

01:01:14   the best thing to do is just record it.

01:01:16   And their rights, at that point,

01:01:17   they don't have streaming rights.

01:01:19   They just, they have the rights to record your TV.

01:01:22   They don't have like,

01:01:23   'cause streaming rights are different, right?

01:01:24   So the easiest way to do it is just record it

01:01:27   and leave it there,

01:01:27   which is what the Dish Network DVR does.

01:01:30   So there's a lot of different moving parts here

01:01:33   and everybody's needs are gonna be different.

01:01:34   I know that if I was somebody who was in a place where I desperately wanted to cut the cable

01:01:39   and I couldn't do it because I'm a Giants fan and I want to watch their baseball games,

01:01:43   I would look at YouTube TV and say, "There it is. That's the solution. Now I can do it."

01:01:48   But I'm not that person.

01:01:49   This does feel like Google's strongest play in TV so far, I think.

01:01:54   It's a good start, right? Google services are such a mess and the YouTube services are such a mess.

01:02:01   I don't really know, you know, with the music and YouTube Red and all of that, it's just,

01:02:05   I hope that they will become more coherent over time, but this is an interesting option.

01:02:11   It looks more impressive than, at a glance, than something like Sling or the DirecTV offering,

01:02:16   but who knows, it's all in the details and how they implement it.

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01:04:10   It is time for Ask Upgrade.

01:04:16   Stephen asked, "Knowing that Myke likes to play games, does Myke prefer gaming on a TV

01:04:22   of a dedicated console or on an iPad and why. So for me I tend to be more interested in physical

01:04:31   controllers than TVs as the thing that makes a game console preferable. So I'm more interested

01:04:39   in having buttons, real buttons to press because for most of the games that I like to play,

01:04:44   buttons are better. I've never really enjoyed a traditional platformer on iOS that has

01:04:52   digital analogue sticks. These sticks that you drag around on the screen or these buttons

01:05:00   that are in fixed places on the screen that you can't press but you have to know where

01:05:04   they are at all times and must make sure that you're hitting them even though you're not

01:05:07   looking at them. I don't like that. Plus as well, console games tend to be bigger and

01:05:13   richer than the average iOS game. I have a place in my gaming life for both, like the

01:05:20   more casual or strange or experimental touch screen iOS games and also for big console

01:05:26   games as well.

01:05:27   And it's not about necessarily which of those experiences are better because I have a place

01:05:32   for them at different times but just like in all I prefer to have physical controls

01:05:38   for my games and I have one of those Bluetooth controllers for iOS and there have been some

01:05:45   iOS games that I've only played on iOS because I had that controller but I still prefer the

01:05:50   the controllers that come with consoles because they also tend to be designed better and better

01:05:55   supported.

01:05:56   There are a lot of games that are designed for physical controls and game genres that

01:05:59   are designed for physical controls and the touch interface doesn't work.

01:06:04   Something like Stagehand, which is a great game, is designed for touch.

01:06:07   It echoes the classic console games or arcade games, but it's designed for touch.

01:06:13   It has touch movements in mind.

01:06:15   That's what it's made for.

01:06:16   And it wouldn't work with physical buttons.

01:06:17   You couldn't use a controller with that game.

01:06:19   Exactly right.

01:06:20   many games that just, when I use them on the iPad, I think this is not the right experience

01:06:28   for this game. I was just playing, because I enjoyed playing Inside so much, I was playing

01:06:36   Limbo but I was playing it on my iPad, and it's a good game, but it doesn't feel right.

01:06:43   Like the controls are kind of a mess because it's all swiping and stuff, and it's just

01:06:47   This is not I think this is not the way that I should play this game. And and so yeah, I I hear you

01:06:53   my son has been playing um, Breath of the Wild all weekend, but

01:06:56   All weekend. It's so good. I didn't know did you get it for Wii U? Yeah

01:07:01   Oh

01:07:04   it's I

01:07:05   haven't put enough time into it to definitively say it but I can see how this is

01:07:12   one of the best games of all time like a lot of people were saying that and I can see how

01:07:17   because it is

01:07:20   stupendous and

01:07:22   That game needs controllers. It needs it

01:07:26   aw stern asked would non developers or

01:07:30   Non-industry people have fun at or around tech conferences as a tech fan and podcast fan. Would it be fun? I

01:07:38   I say yes because I started attending these conferences, you know, conferences like OOL

01:07:44   and conferences like WWDC before I really knew a lot of like people, right? Like I maybe had

01:07:51   like a couple of friends like OOL, I went on my own to OOL for the first time. I think that there

01:07:57   is a lot of things there for you to enjoy if you just have an interest. Like I don't think you have

01:08:05   have to be in any industry. Just like if you're a fan, then yeah, you will get a lot out of

01:08:12   these things.

01:08:13   Tim Cynova Yeah, I would say there are a few different

01:08:15   kinds of conferences. If you go to a conference that is meant to be very technical and it's

01:08:20   not something you want to learn, then those conferences are probably not for you. But

01:08:25   a lot of the conferences we go to are about big ideas and personal stories and about going

01:08:33   out on your own or about being more productive. And then there's a lot of the social aspect

01:08:39   of them of you meeting people and talking to people and all of that. So I think it can

01:08:44   be fun, but you've also got to put yourself out there a little bit. You've got to talk

01:08:47   to people, say hello to people, because I think it would not be as good a time if you

01:08:52   were not meeting people and if you were just kind of sitting on the side on your own. And

01:08:59   And I find the people at these conferences very welcoming and friendly.

01:09:03   So yeah, I agree with you Myke.

01:09:07   Zach asked, "Is there anywhere that you would buy a refurbished MacBook Pro that's not direct

01:09:12   from Apple's refurbished store?"

01:09:14   Jason?

01:09:15   I don't know.

01:09:19   I have never, I've bought refurbished from the Apple store.

01:09:21   I don't think I've ever bought refurbished anywhere else.

01:09:24   Neither have I.

01:09:25   And that's used, right?

01:09:26   That's not refurbished really, it's used at that point, which you could do.

01:09:31   I've sold a refurbished MacBook Pro, but I have not bought one.

01:09:37   I've only ever bought one from Apple too, and everybody that I know as well that buys

01:09:41   refurbished machines or used machines has bought them there.

01:09:47   If you're buying a used machine, that's a different thing, right?

01:09:49   You go buy them on eBay or whatever, right?

01:09:52   Like if you're looking for something that is taken back to a good level of repair and

01:09:58   can be certified as such, Apple's your bet.

01:10:01   That's where you want to buy it from because they put a new warranty on the thing when

01:10:05   they sell it to you, that's what you want.

01:10:07   You should go with the Apple refurb store.

01:10:09   I know that they tend to be more expensive, that's why.

01:10:12   Because they put a new warranty on the thing and they make sure that it's all working fine

01:10:16   before they send it out to you.

01:10:18   You want that if you're going to buy refurb.

01:10:20   You don't get as much of a discount but you still get a discount but you also get peace

01:10:24   of mind.

01:10:27   Lexi asks, I need a cheap small word processing laptop that doesn't need to be online all

01:10:31   the time to be useful.

01:10:32   What should I look at?

01:10:34   So I think that what Lexi is saying here is that they're looking for something that isn't

01:10:39   a Chromebook but I actually think a Chromebook is fine because my understanding is that you

01:10:44   can use Chromebooks offline now.

01:10:46   You can use Docs offline.

01:10:48   built into it so because you're looking for a cheap small word processing

01:10:52   laptop you should get a Chromebook like I don't think there's anything else

01:10:56   yeah I think so I I have not used Chrome a Chromebook offline recently but I

01:11:03   believe that's all meant to do that this that stuff gets stored locally and you

01:11:09   can still work on all of that stuff offline because there is storage on the

01:11:14   device and they do cache the you know the web apps and all of that so I would

01:11:18   say look into that but that might be there are also some cheap you know there

01:11:22   are some cheap windows laptops out there too but if you want a cheap if cheap is

01:11:27   what you're going for and small I think I feel like yeah a Chromebook is a is a

01:11:33   great option and then there are some cheap small that I think HP makes a

01:11:37   cheap small windows laptop there are a few of those out there that are designed

01:11:41   with you know again word processing is not the most labor or processor

01:11:46   intensive task. So, but Chromebooks, I mean, yeah, as long as they can work offline, they're

01:11:53   cheap and the Google suite is fine.

01:11:56   I did just check Google's technical support documents and we were right. You can use Docs

01:12:05   and you can use spreadsheets and stuff like that offline. You can do it all offline now.

01:12:09   Hashtag we were right.

01:12:10   There you go. And finally today Brent asked, "Will Apple refresh the AirPods anytime soon

01:12:16   and what kind of feature changes would you expect to see?" So I think that we

01:12:21   may see a version two in September. I don't know about that yet. I don't think we, well I

01:12:28   definitely don't think we'd see one anytime before the thing is a year old, right? Like

01:12:32   it's being announced so maybe they would ship again for the holidays.

01:12:36   and I only expect to see that if they find a way to add more gestures to the thing really as

01:12:42   what they would be adding, you know, the ability to control volume, skip forward and back and I

01:12:47   think it would take new hardware to do that reliably. So if Apple are able to make a product

01:12:53   within a year that will do this then I think we'll see it. Otherwise I don't think we will.

01:12:59   Other than maybe, maybe a black version. Even then I think you'd still wait for a year before

01:13:06   you won't fail that. I think the only thing we'll get is possibly color

01:13:12   variation otherwise I think it'll be a 2018 thing. Yeah, I mean I don't

01:13:18   necessarily think that they would have the ability to put this the new gestures

01:13:22   in but they're the only thing that I can imagine you would improve upon the

01:13:25   original design with right is is the ability to have more complex gestures

01:13:29   that would work. Well you know more I don't know better battery life whatever

01:13:35   I'm sure there's a whole list of things that they want to do and better connectivity and

01:13:38   all those things. I just, I am doubtful that that's a product that turns around in a year.

01:13:44   Me too. Me too. Yeah. All right. If you want to find our show notes for this week, head

01:13:49   on over to relay.fm/upgrades/131. If you want to find Jason online, he's over at sixcolors.com

01:13:57   and he is @jsnell on twitter, J S N E double L. I am @imike, I M Y K E. Thanks again to

01:14:05   Squarespace, Casper and Encapsular for supporting the show, but most of all thank you for listening.

01:14:10   We'll be back next week. Until then, say goodbye Jason Snow.

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