112: What I've Got Going for Me is Apple


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:08   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, Episode 112. Today's show is brought to you by Text Expander from SMILE and Pearl Reversion.

00:00:18   My name is Myke Hurley and I am joined by the one and only, Mr. Jason Snell.

00:00:23   Hi Myke, how are you doing?

00:00:24   I'm very well, Mr. Snell. How are you?

00:00:26   Good! By the way, episode 112 not available in binary.

00:00:33   That's a shame.

00:00:34   I want to make that clear.

00:00:35   We're out of the binary zone now.

00:00:37   We are out of the binary zone.

00:00:38   I'm very excited today actually.

00:00:42   Why is that?

00:00:43   Because a little later on in today's episode, we are going to be drafting the October Mac

00:00:50   event because it has been announced in between last week's show and this week's show there

00:00:56   There will be an event as Jason predicted. Jason was right on October the 27th. So we

00:01:03   should also maybe give a little programming note. So this show is this show. We're not

00:01:08   going to be recording an episode of Upgrade after the event. We will be recording an episode

00:01:12   of Connected after the event. And then me and Jason will be together in person next

00:01:17   week. And we will be in all in Kalani and Islander will record an episode talking about

00:01:23   our thoughts and feelings over the Mac event and who knows what else but yes you can look

00:01:30   forward to that next week.

00:01:31   Yeah probably the quarterly results too because the quarterly results come out this week as

00:01:34   well.

00:01:35   They do we're gonna have a busy episode next week.

00:01:37   There's a lot going on but we'll be that we'll be busy in person which will be a nice change.

00:01:42   But we have a draft later on in the show which I'm very excited about as always.

00:01:46   There was a press release this morning as a part follow-up the Nike Apple Watch the

00:01:52   Nike+ Apple Watch is going to be released on October 28th. So I have two feelings about

00:01:59   this Jason. That suggests other products will be out on October 28th, maybe AirPods. But

00:02:07   the other is they don't have time to say this on stage on Thursday.

00:02:12   I think that you're right. And that's interesting to me because it doesn't

00:02:18   feel like there's, just for what we expect, it doesn't really feel like there's a lot

00:02:23   for like an hour even, right? So why would they not have kind of run over this and said

00:02:29   and it's out tomorrow? I guess we'll see.

00:02:32   My other take on it would be that it's off topic. That this is not, my gut feeling is

00:02:37   this is not going to be one of those events where they walk through every Apple product

00:02:40   in the product line, right? "Yeah, let's give you an update about the Apple Watch." I guess

00:02:43   they could, right? They could do a slide that says, "Hey," and the Nike, um, and the Nike

00:02:47   watch comes out tomorrow. I guess they could do that and they may do some of that but they

00:02:51   may have decided for that reason that it's like you know we let's cut that part we don't

00:02:56   need that part in there. It's also possible that this is a because this is a joint product

00:03:03   it's Apple and Nike that there's something else going on here where you know Nike wants

00:03:09   to push this out sooner and do their own PR around it and that's why they did it on the

00:03:15   early side. That's also a possibility.

00:03:17   Yep, but it's interesting for Apple to do a press release in this way.

00:03:21   If you want to pick a Nike Apple Watch mentioned on stage in the draft, you're welcome to do

00:03:28   that.

00:03:29   I'm planning to win, Snell.

00:03:31   Okay, good. Alright. I'd expect nothing less of you.

00:03:34   A piece of breaking news before we record it today, coming from Recode. The New York

00:03:39   Times has bought the wire cutter for more than $30 million.

00:03:43   - Yeah, it's great.

00:03:45   I like the site a lot.

00:03:46   Brian Lamb founded it and my understanding is,

00:03:50   largely funded it himself and built this business.

00:03:54   - So ch-ching Mr. Lamb, I guess.

00:03:57   - Yeah, I hope so.

00:03:57   I mean, I think he deserves it

00:04:00   and they've built a very interesting business.

00:04:02   And it's funny, I don't know how,

00:04:04   I don't know if it's profitable or not,

00:04:05   but I think one of the things about Wirecutter

00:04:07   is they've been building a process,

00:04:09   they've been building a format.

00:04:10   They've been, and having written,

00:04:12   I've written two pieces for them, I guess, two projects I did for them. And I could see

00:04:19   from the outside, but with the history of being an editor on the inside of a publication,

00:04:26   I could see them struggling in a good way, I would say, but struggling with how does

00:04:30   this work? Like they didn't want to fall back. They're building a new format and they're

00:04:34   building a new process and they're trying to find the most efficient way of doing all

00:04:37   of that. How do you build something? And reviews are very complicated. And they want to be

00:04:43   consistent and they're trying to build something that is essentially the 21st century version

00:04:48   of Consumer Reports. How do you do that? And they've got a dispersed staff. They're pretty

00:04:55   virtual. They've got some offices, but they've got a lot of people who are remote. And I

00:05:01   think that's the thing that the New York Times is buying here, is they're buying the staff

00:05:07   and the process and the idea of a digital only brand. And I've heard people like, "Oh

00:05:13   great, it's a newspaper buying it. They'll ruin it already." I've heard people say that.

00:05:17   And it's like, "No, this is a media company trying to invest in some non-newspaper media."

00:05:25   Also they've worked with Wirecutter for a while now on stories and I think that was

00:05:30   an interesting way for them to see the process close up. And I wish them well with it. I

00:05:36   think the wire cutter could be even better than it is now with a little more

00:05:41   investment in it, which the New York Times may be able to provide. So, you know,

00:05:46   I'm going to view this as good news, and it's also a great story just that this

00:05:49   is something Brian Lamb wanted to build, and he wanted to be very specific. He had

00:05:54   a vision for it about what he wanted it to be. And, you know, $30 million

00:06:00   dollars in a world where we've got billion dollar purchases of tech companies, it doesn't

00:06:07   seem like a lot, but for something that was largely self-funded.

00:06:10   So a lot of money for a website.

00:06:12   Yeah, for one or two websites and something that doesn't come with, you know, didn't have

00:06:19   many millions of dollars of investment in it.

00:06:21   Yeah, I can't imagine there's much, if any, proprietary technology. You're basically buying

00:06:27   staff, a process, and a brand.

00:06:31   Also congratulations to Re/code, which broke this story, and the URL for the story misspells

00:06:37   Brian Lamb's name, but they seem to have fixed it, so congratulations.

00:06:40   Brian!

00:06:41   Brian.

00:06:42   Sure.

00:06:43   Brian Lamb of the Kiowatter.

00:06:45   Congratulations.

00:06:46   But, yeah, it's an interesting story.

00:06:49   Cool story.

00:06:50   Talking about something that's cool, I saw a little video pop my way over the last few

00:06:55   days, which you've made of a game which is sweeping the nation. It's called Mini Metro.

00:07:02   Well more than that too, it all started, you and I both got our first whiff of this game

00:07:10   from an Ask Upgrade. That's where it all started for me, is Jonathan Blevins sent us a tweet

00:07:17   saying "Hey, have y'all played Mini Metro? #XUpgrade" and that was the end of our lives.

00:07:26   I did know about this beforehand and the reason is I've been keeping my eye on this game for a

00:07:31   long time. It's been a Mac and PC game. Sure, yeah. And I've wanted to play it for a long time

00:07:35   and then a friend of the show, John Voorhees of Mac Stories, he sent me a link and was like "How

00:07:42   much time have you put into this game yet?" I was like "Oh my god, I didn't know it was out"

00:07:46   and I immediately downloaded it and I think I stayed awake until 1.30 in the morning.

00:07:51   It is a game where you are- it's a puzzle game, strategy game, where you are building out

00:07:58   railway lines and it's based on many famous systems, railway systems. There is only one

00:08:07   worth playing in my opinion which is the London Underground tube. It's the only map that I've

00:08:14   played so far as you can imagine? Well it's the, well that's too bad because

00:08:19   there's the high-speed train you get in Osaka but it's all

00:08:23   based on the classic sort of London Underground, the influential Harry Beck

00:08:29   London Underground map style. It's beautiful, lots of shapes and lots of

00:08:35   colored lines. Yep. The idea is that you're building a commuter system in

00:08:40   which you are trying to move the people from station to station and the longer

00:08:43   play the more stations appear the more passengers appear and you have to play for as long as you can

00:08:49   until the some what until game over and game over is when a station overloads when you have not got

00:08:55   enough infrastructure in place to pick up the waiting passengers there's a countdown timer

00:08:59   countdown timer ends and the game is over it is really difficult to explain this game in a way

00:09:05   that makes it sound interesting which is why i have no doubt this is why you made a video about it

00:09:10   That's exactly it. I thought that this was a perfect kind of game to make a video for. I've been I've been I made a

00:09:15   Video I did an Altos adventure video I think and I think I did one other one

00:09:19   But I want to do games games are a good subject for this

00:09:24   And I thought that this was a good example of something that you kind of need to see it and understand what it is

00:09:30   And so I made on Friday afternoon. I basically

00:09:33   made a made a little video where I I

00:09:37   walk you through sort of how it looks and what it sounds like and how the

00:09:42   gameplay works and what the some of the underlying strategy is that kind of

00:09:46   takes it up to another another level once you start to understand how the

00:09:49   gameplay works. Yeah it is absolutely fantastic. Cannot recommend it enough. I'm

00:09:55   gonna be spending a lot of time in this game because it feels like one of those

00:10:00   games that's just gonna be pretty timeless in the amount you know the

00:10:05   amount that you'll be able to get out of it. So I recommend going and playing

00:10:10   mini Metro. There'll be some links in the show notes for all of that.

00:10:14   I agree. Well well well worth checking out. And I got to refresh my memory

00:10:19   about how to do keyframes in Final Cut Pro so that was good too. Good to

00:10:24   remember that. Because I don't do that a lot with with when I do the total party

00:10:28   kill videos I do a lot of cropping and placement of video files in the larger

00:10:33   but I don't do sort of movement stuff. It's all just kind of cuts. And with

00:10:41   the mini-metro thing I wanted some zoom in and pan across things to

00:10:46   highlight what I was talking about. And it took me like 10 minutes to remember

00:10:53   how to set keyframes for animation in Final Cut. But Final Cut Pro X, again, I

00:10:59   mean, I think we talked about this a while ago. I wrote a piece about it for

00:11:02   colors based on my usage for Total Party Kill but I realize that if you're

00:11:07   somebody who used the old Final Cut and you are used to the that metaphor that

00:11:11   Final Cut Pro X is can be supremely frustrating I get it I get how that's a

00:11:16   difficult transition but for people like us Myke who are not professional

00:11:21   nonlinear video editors I look at Final Cut Pro X and I am amazed at how easy it

00:11:28   is for me to do. I think to myself, I wonder if I could do this and like 15 minutes later

00:11:35   maybe, maybe it's less than that. I am generally doing that thing that I was wondering about.

00:11:40   Just by trying a couple of things. Sometimes it's the first thing I try. I'm like, I wonder

00:11:45   if I do this, if it does what, oh, it does. Like it's amazing.

00:11:48   Other than that, like I'm in the exact same camp where it's like, I think to myself, is

00:11:52   this possible for me to do? And then I'm able to go out and do it. But if I spend enough

00:11:57   time where I can't work it out, I can Google it and I will get an answer, which is not

00:12:02   the case for all pro applications.

00:12:04   Right?

00:12:05   And nine times out of ten, the article that helps me is an Apple support document, which

00:12:11   is also not very common for a lot of even Apple's pro applications.

00:12:15   I wonder who's working on those.

00:12:17   Somebody is working on them and they are very, very good.

00:12:20   They're very, very good.

00:12:22   So go pay me in Metro, then go learn Final Cut.

00:12:26   Just for fun.

00:12:27   Before we talk about the upcoming Mac event, there is a Mac-related rumour that I would

00:12:33   like to get your opinion on. This came out from a few places, Wall Street Journal had

00:12:37   an article, Macrumours had a little follow-up piece. I put the Macrumours link in because

00:12:42   if you are not a subscriber to the Wall Street Journal then you cannot read their article.

00:12:47   So I have not read their article, all I have read is summaries of it. There is some rumours

00:12:54   going around that Apple is either A) working with or looking to acquire a company called

00:13:01   Sonda who are making a keyboard with e-ink keys. Now Sonda's CEO is currently denying

00:13:08   very specifically worded language that he's met with Tim Cook. I think one of the quotes

00:13:15   was "On Wednesday the 12th of October 2016 he did not meet with Tim Cook."

00:13:20   didn't meet with him that day. So you know make of that what you will but my

00:13:25   eyebrow always raises when it sounds like people being so very specific about

00:13:30   the way that they tell the truth right it's like it's like a child it's like

00:13:34   you know I definitely did not say that one thing it's like okay you're really

00:13:39   dancing around this. Nevertheless sources in the know are confirming too many

00:13:44   outlets that Apple is working to bring the technology that this company makes

00:13:48   to their laptops in 2018.

00:13:50   And what it is is,

00:13:51   Sundar is making and developing a keyboard

00:13:55   that has E Ink screens, individual E Ink screens,

00:13:59   inside of the keycaps.

00:14:02   Now, we spoke about this before,

00:14:04   we spoke about the, I think it's the Optimus Prime keyboard,

00:14:08   that was the thing that everybody was talking about.

00:14:11   Is it Optimus Prime?

00:14:13   Is it something like that?

00:14:14   - I think that's a transformer.

00:14:15   It's the Optimus Maximus, I think.

00:14:18   - Optimus Maximus, there you go.

00:14:19   - Or Optimus Populares, it's Optimus is the name

00:14:22   of the keyboards that are, but from that one company, yeah.

00:14:27   - So everybody was speaking about them

00:14:29   when we heard rumors of the Touch Bar, right?

00:14:31   The function of a Touch Bar.

00:14:33   But one of the things that definitely makes sense

00:14:35   instead of putting tiny little LCD screens in every key

00:14:38   is to put E Ink in the keys

00:14:40   because that's probably cheaper, more battery efficient,

00:14:43   and I would expect easier to work with.

00:14:45   - Well, certainly if you're Apple

00:14:47   and you have professed to many people how great it is to have software keyboards because you can do different things with them,

00:14:54   this would be another way to go, which is, whatever the technology, if e-ink is the right thing,

00:15:00   if it's more like e-paper, which is like an LCD kind of technology that's in the pebble,

00:15:06   if it's OLED, whatever the technology is, the cost is an issue there, but the idea,

00:15:13   It's not far-fetched at all, I think, to look five or ten years out and say, "Well, of course,

00:15:18   if we still have physical keyboards in five or ten years, they probably won't have the letters

00:15:25   engraved on them anymore, because they'll probably be able to change based on context. If you switch

00:15:31   languages, if you toggle from one language to another, having your keyboard change underneath

00:15:36   you. And you know, you won't be able to necessarily change the physical shape of the key, but you'll be

00:15:41   be able to change what those keys mean. And I think that's a cool idea, I really do.

00:15:46   I think that's great.

00:15:47   >> Like, we were just talking about Final Cut. How great would it be to open an application

00:15:52   like that and not have to learn the keyboard shortcuts? Because they're displayed on

00:15:56   the keyboard. Right? Like, you don't need to go to a menu and find out what the keyboard

00:16:01   shortcut is, because you'll just see them in front of you when you open the application.

00:16:05   I really like that idea. It feels like something that is logical. Like, it just seems like

00:16:11   it's like why don't we have that already?

00:16:12   You know, like it just seems like that's the way

00:16:14   that things should have been when in 2007,

00:16:17   Apple decided that they were not gonna put

00:16:19   a physical keyboard on the iPhone, right?

00:16:21   For this reason is that you can then

00:16:23   make the keys anything, right?

00:16:25   They can do anything because they're not fixed in position.

00:16:28   So this seems like a very logical thing to do.

00:16:31   It seems especially logical if we are assuming

00:16:34   that the touchscreen function row is happening.

00:16:38   If that does happen, which I think is just

00:16:40   given at this point that we will expect that's happening on the MacBook Pro. This seems like

00:16:44   a logical next step of even that, right? Okay, so now some of the keys aren't fixed, why

00:16:51   don't we do it with all of them? I think that this sounds really interesting. Whether Apple

00:16:55   goes with this company, buys this company or whatever, it will be interesting to see.

00:17:01   If it is going to be e-ink, I would expect there to be an acquisition in Apple's future

00:17:06   because they do not have any public e-ink technology.

00:17:10   So I wouldn't be surprised if they acquired someone

00:17:13   who could give them that.

00:17:14   - Right, and it's funny, I mean, a lot of this talk

00:17:16   is about the Sonder company from Australia,

00:17:19   which according to the Wall Street Journal

00:17:21   is backed by Foxconn.

00:17:22   So this is one of Apple suppliers.

00:17:24   So it's entirely possible that Apple could do this

00:17:27   on the inside or Apple could say,

00:17:29   "Supply us with these keyboards."

00:17:31   Like, you know, we're placing an order

00:17:35   for millions of these keyboards over time or something like that.

00:17:38   What's interesting about the journal story is that it says

00:17:44   it will be featured on MacBook laptops

00:17:48   according to people familiar with the plans and it's unclear what's going on

00:17:52   here

00:17:53   but it's possible because you hear about this this company and you think is

00:17:58   this a way to improve the

00:18:00   value of this startup and all that it's and that's possible but

00:18:04   I have a hard time thinking that the Wall Street Journal would go with this story if

00:18:09   they didn't have some feeling from within Apple that this was real. But I guess we'll

00:18:15   see. Whether it's Apple acquiring—I heard somebody say, "Well, why couldn't they

00:18:20   just do this themselves? Why would they acquire—" Apple acquires stuff all the time, right? And

00:18:25   this would be the perfect kind of thing where they're like, "Yeah, we want to own that."

00:18:29   And/or uses companies to supply their parts for them. Like, that's very normal.

00:18:33   Yeah, yeah, and presumably Apple would do all the software to drive this, right? But

00:18:38   if somebody else has already built these, you know, built the keycaps, built the controller,

00:18:43   whatever it is, then that might be a way in. But also Apple does not have a problem just

00:18:49   buying out companies and making them wholly owned Apple subsidiaries and they get the

00:18:54   tech and they get the people and they put them to work on Apple stuff. So, but regardless

00:18:59   of this one company, I do think that this is a direction Apple wants to go, and we've

00:19:04   joked before about the inevitable Apple laptop that comes with a touchscreen keyboard on

00:19:11   it.

00:19:12   It's like a Nintendo DS, there's just a second screen on the keyboard part that is a software

00:19:17   keyboard most of the time.

00:19:18   It's like a Lenovo Yoga book, it's already happened, you know?

00:19:21   Well, except that's not a programmable touchscreen, right?

00:19:26   But it's just a flat surface.

00:19:28   just a flat surface, but I don't think Apple would ever do that. I think Apple would always,

00:19:32   part of that change would be, it can be anything. The keys can represent anything. I think this

00:19:40   is another way to go, which is people still want the physical feedback of typing, and

00:19:46   on a traditional computer especially, and they haven't yet gotten to the point where

00:19:51   they can make something that feels like a physical keyboard but is actually not. Maybe

00:19:55   Maybe they'll get there sometime with various technologies.

00:19:57   I know there have been some weird patents and people have speculated about stuff like

00:20:01   that.

00:20:02   But this seems like it's certainly at least a step along that path, which is why have

00:20:06   permanent keycaps on the keyboard?

00:20:08   Why not let software do interesting things with them?

00:20:11   You combine that with what they're probably going to do with this magic toolbar thing

00:20:15   in the MacBook Pro, it all kind of fits together.

00:20:17   Every now and then I feel like there are rumors that become self-fulfilling, and this feels

00:20:23   like one of them.

00:20:24   me it doesn't matter whether Apple is talking to this company or not, it seems like such

00:20:29   a logical thing that people will talk about now over the next year or two, especially

00:20:33   after the function row changes, that it's going to happen anyway, like whether it's

00:20:38   happening now or not. Like it just feels like this is such a logical thing that if they're

00:20:42   not working on it, they will start to work on it because it seems like something that

00:20:45   everybody would want.

00:20:47   Yeah, yeah. I think that's, for me, that's the number one thing about this story is,

00:20:53   this story right or not? I don't know. But I do know that this is the kind of thing that

00:20:59   Apple is going to push toward. And maybe, if this never happens, it's going to be because

00:21:03   Apple is going to look at this and say, "You know what? This is kind of hacky. It's not

00:21:07   really good enough. The user experience isn't good enough. The refresh issues, the contrast

00:21:13   on the keys, it'll be stuff like that." But this is definitely the direction they want

00:21:16   to go with their technology. It's just a question of, is this the right technology? Does it

00:21:21   do it in the way that Apple wants. Maybe, maybe not. I think it's a cool idea. So we

00:21:28   will see. But it's certainly the kind of thing that Apple wants to do.

00:21:35   All right after this break we are going to draft our picks for the October Mac event.

00:21:42   But first let me tell you about our first sponsor for this week's episode and that is

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00:23:23   get a good view as you can kind of touch on the screen and pan around seeing obstacles.

00:23:27   You can even see around corners of this thing because of the great wide angle lenses that

00:23:32   the cameras have on them. You can even get out you also you get a mount for your phone

00:23:37   so they give you a mount so you can easily mount your phone to your dash so you'll be

00:23:41   be able to do everything hands free. Now Jason I know that you have a Pearl

00:23:45   rear vision can you kind of talk me through what it was like to get it set

00:23:48   up and how to install it on the car? So yeah I got one and was installing it

00:23:53   over the weekend and it comes in a very I would say Apple like box I've seen I

00:23:58   got I got an immersion cooker a sous vide machine over the weekend too and I

00:24:03   was I was I was struck with both of these products at the influence of

00:24:08   Apple's packaging. They're both sort of like white box, really good experience of opening

00:24:15   these products. And I just had a moment of like, "This is because of Apple. Apple did

00:24:19   this." Apple made people go, "Oh, people want a nice experience when they buy a product

00:24:24   like this and they want to have a pleasant unboxing experience." And it totally was.

00:24:29   And they've got, there's a setup manual as well as sort of like, because it's a license

00:24:34   plate frame, it's actually also sort of like attached to the frame, so you basically can't

00:24:42   not read the manual. I mean, you can, because you could rip that out too and be like, "I'll

00:24:46   just figure it out." But it's very cleverly done, which if you don't bring the booklet

00:24:50   with you and you just carry the parts out to the car, the instructions come with you

00:24:55   because they are also attached to the product itself. And then, setting up was pretty easy.

00:25:02   I have a little ratchet wrench that let me take the two bolts off of my car that hold

00:25:10   the license plate on, and then what you do is you attach the license plate to a back

00:25:17   plate of the Pearl using two little rubber screws, and then they attach on the bottom,

00:25:24   and then you attach the license plate and the Pearl back plate together with the bolts

00:25:30   that I had just taken off of my car, put it back on. So then I've got my license plate

00:25:34   and the Pearl, sort of, well I guess it's a front plate, but the Pearl, part one, one

00:25:40   of the two parts of the Pearl that go together. And then, and then what you do is you attach

00:25:45   the front portion of the Pearl, which includes the cameras and stuff, to it, and you use

00:25:51   the special tool that they've got to lock it in place, with, you just screw it a few

00:25:57   times with that locking tool at which point you've got your license plate frame that's

00:26:03   got embedded backup cameras and then you plug this little black module into the OBD port

00:26:12   on your car and then it pairs with an iPhone app and then you're up and running.

00:26:20   So super easy to install, they give you everything that you need as Jason said and then you'll

00:26:24   be fit with a great backup camera, it gives you those alerts, you get great picture quality,

00:26:29   it's all streamed to the phone app, couldn't be simpler. To find out more about the rear vision

00:26:34   camera for yourself just go to pearlauto.com/upgrade and if you go there listeners of this show,

00:26:41   so you dear listener, will get free two-day shipping. This will be automatically applied

00:26:45   when you visit pearlauto.com/upgrade that's p-e-a-r-l-a-u-t-o.com/upgrade. Thank you so much

00:26:53   to Pearl with their rear vision camera for supporting the show and relay FM.

00:27:00   And now let me translate that for Americans. Thank you to Pearl rear vision. There are

00:27:04   a lot of R's in there Myke. Pearl.

00:27:06   Pearl. Pearl. There you go.

00:27:11   Rear vision. Pearl rear vision. Is that better?

00:27:13   There you go. Now you sounded a little bit like a Texan there.

00:27:16   Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. At least it's American.

00:27:19   Thank you.

00:27:20   It is time for the third draft of the year.

00:27:25   Yes.

00:27:26   It is the October Mac event draft.

00:27:29   I would like to establish the rules.

00:27:33   It's important to have rules, Myke.

00:27:35   Important.

00:27:36   Five rounds.

00:27:37   So there will be five picks each, ten total picks.

00:27:41   Yes.

00:27:42   The possible picks have all been listed out.

00:27:44   There will be no curveballs thrown in.

00:27:47   me and Jason have both looked at all of the possible options and have agreed upon them.

00:27:52   Yes.

00:27:54   Anything that is picked must be announced on stage or clearly displayed on a slide without

00:28:01   contention to win a point. The reason that I'm so very specific about this is I re-listened

00:28:07   this morning to the September draft because I know that we both thought to ourselves that

00:28:15   we needed better rules. And I would point out the watch band compatibility pick from

00:28:20   the September where we just had to assume that there was watch band compatibility because

00:28:25   it looked like it. Now this is a without contention anything that is picked must be announced

00:28:32   on stage or clearly displayed on the slide.

00:28:35   I'm going to argue that if you display a watch and it contains bands that are exactly like

00:28:39   the bands that everybody's been buying then that it is actually being displayed on the

00:28:43   slide what I will say here is perhaps we can suggest someone maybe Steven Hackett

00:28:49   as the ultimate authority in case of a disagreement between us.

00:28:53   That is the contention part of it. Somewhere Steven Hackett is just like no

00:28:57   no. So there will be an adjudicator in case the contention is brought to fore. Yes and that

00:29:05   that person's ruling is final. The person, this is the most exciting part to me,

00:29:10   because of the scoring the person who wins this draft is draft champion for

00:29:16   the year and I will assume final best two out of three but okay but it is

00:29:23   though we've got one each there's not gonna be a fourth event this year nope

00:29:28   so whoever wins wins all right that was never the plan but it's worked out that

00:29:34   way okay all right first annual we'll say if you win you can be the first

00:29:38   annual champion because I know you like that so much and you'll be the first ever champion

00:29:42   it's not a thing yeah all right I have my list in front of me because I uh as I do I have ranked

00:29:49   what I think are the most likely picks now you were the winner of the previous draft

00:29:53   so as per the previous rules you get to pick first oh that's very nice of you well I when I

00:30:01   I picked first last time because I won the first one so yes and I think you picked the first the

00:30:07   the first time too because I was generous.

00:30:09   - Yep.

00:30:10   - That showed, that was my mistake.

00:30:12   Well, then it's very easy for me to pick,

00:30:14   my first pick is going to be,

00:30:15   there will be a new MacBook Pro.

00:30:16   - Yeah.

00:30:17   - I think they will mention it on stage.

00:30:18   - That was my number one pick as well.

00:30:19   - Yeah, I think they will mention that on stage

00:30:23   and also have some slides.

00:30:25   - Yeah, I think there will be no contention there.

00:30:27   Yeah, I think this is,

00:30:29   I think when we look at this now

00:30:31   with this event just a couple of days away,

00:30:33   I think it's clear to everybody

00:30:35   that this is the MacBook Pro event, first and foremost, right?

00:30:38   Like, we know it's a Mac event.

00:30:40   Apple has made that very clear with like the hello on the,

00:30:43   you know, we get the joke.

00:30:44   And it's obviously it's time for Macs.

00:30:48   But I think irrespective of whatever there may be,

00:30:52   announced at this event,

00:30:53   the MacBook Pro will take center stage.

00:30:55   - Yeah, I think it has to be,

00:30:56   I think the MacBook Pro is the reason for the event, right?

00:30:59   They've got a completely redesigned MacBook Pro.

00:31:02   They didn't get a chance to show it off

00:31:04   a previous event even though they initially that was apparently the plan.

00:31:08   They don't want to put out a brand new MacBook Pro.

00:31:12   Once every three or four years they get to do this where they've got this new technology

00:31:16   they want to show off with the touch bar thing.

00:31:20   And you don't do that by press release.

00:31:22   So they have to have an event.

00:31:23   It's the reason the event happens.

00:31:24   Then you do some other stuff.

00:31:26   But they didn't need an event last year when all they did was they did that 4K iMac and

00:31:33   all of that.

00:31:34   didn't need a big event for that. They just mentioned it at the earlier event. But for

00:31:38   this one, they need to give it its own space, and that's why it has to be there at number

00:31:42   one.

00:31:43   This is quite possibly the biggest change to the MacBook Pro since the retina screen,

00:31:48   which was a very long time ago now.

00:31:50   Yeah, and that's basically the same one.

00:31:53   So based upon your pick, I will go for my number one pick, that the MacBook Pro will

00:31:59   include the touchscreen function row. This has been widely rumored that the function

00:32:05   row, the F and keys, will be replaced with a new touchscreen, which will be adaptable

00:32:11   per application and will feature a bunch of new Apple-included things.

00:32:19   That's a wild pick there. I wonder where you got that idea.

00:32:22   No clue. No clue.

00:32:25   It's going to be interesting to see the details on that, right? Because this is the case where

00:32:29   we know hardware rumors and we know kind of vague,

00:32:34   once you get to the software and how it's gonna be used

00:32:36   and how it's gonna be marketed,

00:32:37   everything gets a little bit hazy

00:32:39   because the sources for that are not quite as good

00:32:44   necessarily or the sources are so good

00:32:47   that they have to kind of cloak what they leak

00:32:51   because they don't wanna be identified.

00:32:54   But that's a part that's all hazy for us.

00:32:56   - Yeah, that stuff is privy to less people.

00:32:57   And I love that about it, right?

00:32:59   'Cause that's your genuine mystery is,

00:33:01   not just what we always say here,

00:33:03   which is what's the story Apple tells,

00:33:04   but like what are the decisions they made?

00:33:06   What are the details with something like this touchscreen?

00:33:09   Like, is there gonna be a moment?

00:33:11   I would imagine there needs to be,

00:33:13   that when they go into these presentations,

00:33:15   they have to have that moment where everybody goes,

00:33:17   oh, like I had no idea.

00:33:19   It never occurred to me that you could do that

00:33:21   with this thing.

00:33:22   What is that?

00:33:23   What's that gonna be?

00:33:24   Very, very interested in the details.

00:33:27   You're up.

00:33:29   - Oh man.

00:33:29   I don't, this, now it's getting a little tough.

00:33:34   It's getting a little scary.

00:33:36   I'm gonna say, I'm gonna go with the Touch ID sensor.

00:33:40   - Yeah, that's a good pick.

00:33:41   - I'm gonna go with the Touch ID sensor

00:33:45   because it just seems, I'm not 100% on this.

00:33:49   You know, I'm not 100%, but it seems to me

00:33:52   that the watch unlock feature in Sierra

00:33:56   is a fallback if you don't have a Touch ID Mac.

00:34:01   And the rumors are that this has Touch ID.

00:34:04   I feel less confident about that

00:34:07   than I do about the touchscreen for some reason.

00:34:09   It's just, it's never, my number two would be

00:34:12   the touchscreen, which you picked.

00:34:14   But I think it's going to happen mostly because,

00:34:17   not only are those rumors out there, but because of Sierra,

00:34:19   that Apple Pay and the WatchUnlock

00:34:23   both feel like fallback features.

00:34:25   well we can use the secure element in your phone or your watch if you don't have a device

00:34:30   that has Touch ID on it. What's that device? This is that device. This is why those features

00:34:36   really exist. So I feel like that gives me the confidence to pick it second.

00:34:41   So this is my next up for the reason of if you took away the reported rumours and gave

00:34:48   me all of this information, so you told me you've got to pick out of these two things.

00:34:53   Either Apple's going to put a Touch ID sensor in the MacBook Pro, or they're going to replace

00:34:57   the function keys of a touch screen bar.

00:35:00   And we are where we are today with Sierra and everything we know about Sierra 100% every

00:35:04   time I pick the Touch ID sensor.

00:35:06   It is a product that already exists, Touch ID, right?

00:35:09   It's something that is on other devices and it enables the Mac to do some interesting

00:35:15   things.

00:35:16   And it's clear from what is in Sierra that they want to put those features into the Mac.

00:35:22   best way to do that is the way Apple already knows how to do it, which is to put a Touch

00:35:26   ID sensor into the Mac. It just seems like a more... I know why you're having an arring

00:35:31   about it, but I think that if you gave me these two things, these two rumors at the

00:35:37   exact same time, both completely cold, I would go Touch ID every time.

00:35:40   Sure. It's more consistent with Apple's product line. It's just not... The touch screen seems

00:35:45   like a much stronger... That rumor has been much clearer than the Touch ID sensor rumor,

00:35:51   whatever reason. And so maybe just because it's more visible in the leaked parts and

00:35:56   things. But I agree with you. Touch ID on the Mac actually is the like very consistent

00:36:02   from Apple's product direction for the last few years.

00:36:05   My next pick, I almost feel bad for doing this because you know, we're expecting this

00:36:09   to be a Mac event, but I believe we're going to get a shipping date announced for the AirPods.

00:36:16   The AirPods were due to be out in October.

00:36:19   We are merely a few days away from the end of October.

00:36:24   I think that they're going to be on stage, they'll say, and they are shipping today.

00:36:29   Remember we spoke about these amazing things and you'll be able to use them with your Mac?

00:36:33   Maybe we don't know yet.

00:36:34   You might have to use them with one of the Macs.

00:36:36   We don't know.

00:36:37   We'll see.

00:36:38   But I think that they're going to give some time to AirPods on stage to refresh the memory

00:36:42   about those because they have everybody in the room.

00:36:46   They will give them out to reviewers, etc., etc., and they'll start pushing from there.

00:36:51   I think that AirPods will have some time in the event on Thursday.

00:36:55   I think this is a likely scenario, and I had it fairly high on my list.

00:37:00   I do have that moment.

00:37:02   It's a little bit like the moment of paranoia when I picked the new MacBook Pro, where I

00:37:05   thought, "What if they changed the name?

00:37:07   Oh, no."

00:37:08   Then we'll get a ruling from Steven Hackett.

00:37:10   No, if they changed the name of the MacBook Pro, if it's clear it's the MacBook Pro, we're

00:37:14   all good.

00:37:15   Yeah, I think so, but again, you know, it is, I had that moment with the AirPods, it's the same thing. It's, it's, uh, it's, will they mention it on stage?

00:37:22   If, if we saw the Nike announcement, right, they didn't do that with AirPods and announced that they're shipping on Friday, which they could have.

00:37:30   I think giving another push to AirPods on stage makes sense. And if they do a 10 minute summary of what else is going on before they get to the Mac, 15 minutes summary, something like that, this would clearly be high on the list.

00:37:44   I also wonder if there might possibly be a Sierra update that they promote that shows the AirPods working and pairing immediately with a Mac, if you start it there, something like that.

00:38:01   Where they might say, "And it works with the Mac too, there could be a Mac angle there," if they wanted to do that.

00:38:07   So I think you're right.

00:38:09   I think that this is a pretty likely pick.

00:38:12   The only reason that it wouldn't happen is

00:38:14   if they felt like they had other things to talk about,

00:38:16   they didn't need to give it another push,

00:38:18   and they just put out a press release saying,

00:38:21   "Shipping by the end of October, we meant it.

00:38:23   It's tomorrow. Enjoy."

00:38:25   But I think it probably will get mentioned.

00:38:27   Oh no, it's my time now. It's my turn.

00:38:30   - It's starting to get a bit tricky now.

00:38:31   I have a few floating around for my next one.

00:38:33   I just can't pick from which.

00:38:35   I'm going to choose that the MacBook Pro will ship without any standard USB ports, without

00:38:40   any traditional USB ports.

00:38:43   This was a rumor that came out as well in the past week, right?

00:38:47   That's my take. It's all going to be USB... if there's USB on it, it's going to be USB-C/Thunderbolt

00:38:56   3 and none of the traditional ports. Now, I know I'm taking a chance here. What I've

00:39:01   got going for me is Apple. Right? I have Apple just being defiant and saying, "Look, this

00:39:09   is the future. Get on board. Get an adapter if you need it and we're moving on because

00:39:16   this is the future. We're not going to do a transitional one that's got some of one

00:39:19   and some of another. This is it. We're on it." And so that makes me want to pick it.

00:39:25   So I'm going to pick it.

00:39:27   I have some feelings about this.

00:39:29   Yeah, sure.

00:39:31   This feels a little, I can see this happening, but it feels a little user hostile for the

00:39:39   MacBook Pro.

00:39:40   Yeah, it sure does.

00:39:44   In a way that I'm kind of uncomfortable with.

00:39:47   Doing this to the MacBook, a new product, I can kind of get it.

00:39:53   In the same way that, you know, when Apple will release new laptops, they will maybe

00:39:57   release one of them and keep the old ones on sale.

00:40:00   Maybe they'll do that here, but I think that this product has been waited on for too long

00:40:04   to do that with.

00:40:05   Like when they released the retina MacBook, it had some things that it took away, but

00:40:09   they kept that, the retina MacBook Pro, they kept that on the line and then kept the old

00:40:13   ones.

00:40:14   Keeping these current old computers around seems like a bit of a slap in the face, right?

00:40:19   To like, oh, if you want to continue using USB without adapters, you've got to keep buying

00:40:24   the ones that are very, very old at this point.

00:40:26   Or just keep using the one you've got.

00:40:28   I think that would be their argument is if you're going to buy a brand new computer with

00:40:31   all this great new technology in it, guess what? You can buy a little adapter so that

00:40:36   your old USB stuff plugs into it. If you're going to spend more than $1,000 on this thing,

00:40:41   spend $1,300 or $1,400 on this thing, you can survive. And maybe, who knows? Maybe there'll

00:40:46   be a little adapter in the box. Apple seems to be doing that these days too.

00:40:50   But I just think on the Pro computer, like even if you want to do this, just give one.

00:40:57   You know, there's just something about it that makes me uncomfortable.

00:41:01   I agree with you, but I think I'm gonna pick it and I'm just gonna, you know, this is me

00:41:06   closing one eye and throwing a dart and I think it just sounds very much like what Apple's

00:41:12   doing in 2016.

00:41:13   Let's be honest, this is not a far-fetched thing, right?

00:41:18   There is lots and lots of established examples of this.

00:41:24   Ample precedent for this sort of behavior.

00:41:27   In the last two months or so, you know, this has happened.

00:41:31   Whilst there are things that I could also pick from our list which fit with that line

00:41:35   of thinking, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that I think that there will be a

00:41:41   13 inch laptop called the MacBook.

00:41:47   Not called MacBook Air.

00:41:49   And that kind of, I see if you agree with me on that, this isn't necessarily a part

00:41:53   of the pick here, but this also signals the end of the 11" MacBook Air's life. There will

00:42:02   be two products in this line, there is the 12" MacBook and the 13" MacBook. I don't know

00:42:08   what that product looks like. I don't know if that is a 13" version of the current 12"

00:42:14   or if it is the current Air with some new stuff inside it called the MacBook. The Apple

00:42:20   we're going to shrink the lineup a little bit.

00:42:22   - And I think I said on this show previously,

00:42:25   but my feeling is that the MacBook versus MacBook Air

00:42:28   distinction comes down to physical design of the hardware.

00:42:31   Maybe I mentioned that on the Six Color Podcast with Dan,

00:42:33   but the idea that if it looks like a MacBook Air,

00:42:36   they'll call it a MacBook Air.

00:42:37   But if it looks like the MacBook,

00:42:38   if they actually changed the style of it,

00:42:40   and maybe it doesn't have a big silver bezel

00:42:41   around the monitor and things like that,

00:42:43   if it looks and it's got color options,

00:42:46   if all of that is true,

00:42:47   even if it's essentially the following onto the MacBook Air in that it's got a fan and

00:42:52   it's got a more powerful processor and all of those things, if it looks like the MacBook,

00:42:57   they'll call it a MacBook.

00:42:58   That's what I think. And I don't even know if it will have a retina screen.

00:43:02   If it's the old styling they're called the MacBook Air, I don't know, I don't think they

00:43:05   can put it in a, they can call it a MacBook and have it not have a retina screen. I think

00:43:09   that's, I don't think they can do that.

00:43:11   I don't know. I mean, you know, maybe I'm showing my hand at the later pics. I do think

00:43:15   that it will. I think the Air dies on Thursday. I think there is no MacBook Air anymore. There

00:43:21   is just the MacBook and it comes in 12 and 13.

00:43:25   I'm 50/50 on this. I think it's just as easy that they do an upgrade to the Air to keep

00:43:31   it around a little bit longer and not change its industrial design with an eye toward eventually

00:43:39   migrating the MacBook. But maybe it's the time now. I think it's as likely as not for

00:43:44   me. So I think that's a pretty good pick. That's how I feel. But I feel like it wouldn't

00:43:48   be a draft if I didn't kind of throw caution to the wind a little bit.

00:43:51   Oh, we gotta take chances, I did the no standard USB ports, right? I think we're taking a chance

00:43:55   there. Alright, I'm gonna take another chance with my next pick, which is, I'm gonna say

00:44:02   that the new MacBook Pro has the wide P3 colour gamut.

00:44:09   Now I wanna just make sure that I understand this. This isn't necessary for the draft part,

00:44:14   just from my understanding. Is that, the P3, is that what the iMac has or is that what

00:44:19   the phone has or is that what they both have?

00:44:21   That's what they both have. It's in the iPhone 7 and 7 Plus and it's in the 2015 model 4K

00:44:29   and 5K iMacs. So this would be now the MacBook Pro will also have the wide color support.

00:44:36   That's my prediction.

00:44:37   I think that's a really strong pick.

00:44:38   I don't think I've seen that actually reported anywhere, but I'm going to pick it anyway

00:44:44   because it just seems logical to me.

00:44:46   Like I feel like that can't come from a supply chain, like who knows?

00:44:49   Well they might know if that panel has that support or not, right?

00:44:53   And maybe it has been reported, but it just, again, what way is the wind blowing here for

00:44:57   Apple?

00:44:58   I feel like they want that wider color gamut and everything.

00:45:01   This is a professional laptop.

00:45:02   They're going to have professional photographers and designers using it.

00:45:05   They want to be able to provide some device that can see those wide color photos that

00:45:10   isn't a huge monitor on your desk or an iPad or a phone.

00:45:14   And that means MacBook Pro.

00:45:15   I think that makes a lot of sense.

00:45:18   Because Pro, right?

00:45:19   You know, like, they spent a lot of time with the iMac talking about photography.

00:45:24   And so I think we may see that here.

00:45:25   I think that's a strong pick.

00:45:27   I'm gonna go for a safe one now.

00:45:30   Okay.

00:45:31   Refreshed iMacs.

00:45:32   Alright.

00:45:33   I don't know what that means. I have no kind of color on it, but that's what I think.

00:45:39   So the last two years, two years ago they did an event and they brought out the new iMac 5K.

00:45:44   Last year they refreshed the iMac 5K, they put in the wide color gamut, and they added the 4K iMac.

00:45:51   So this would logically be a time when Apple would update the iMacs, they'd have faster processors,

00:45:56   they would just be fresh for the fall.

00:46:00   fall. The only thing that gives me any hesitation here is that there was that

00:46:04   report that said that the IMAX aren't ready, but that doesn't necessarily mean

00:46:08   that they wouldn't announce them and then ship them in November if they have

00:46:12   to or later, but this is logically when that's going to happen. So I think

00:46:17   you're taking a little bit of a chance, but it's not a huge chance. And if I was

00:46:20   going to say anything, like what I think could be here, like just to throw it out

00:46:24   there. I think that this will be maybe the first Mac or one of the first Macs

00:46:30   to get True Tone and/or Night Shift. I think the iMac has shown

00:46:39   precedent over the last five years of being the first Mac to get the fancy

00:46:44   screen stuff, right? The color and the 5k and all that. Shabang. It may be the

00:46:50   first to kind of push that a little bit further to take advantage of two pretty cool features

00:46:57   that Apple has only on some iOS devices, which really would do a good job on the Mac, I think.

00:47:04   Especially Night Shift, as I look at my Mac right now, as I'm using Flux and it's starting

00:47:08   to change color. It surprises me that they haven't put this in the Mac yet, and maybe

00:47:12   they were waiting for a product to do it.

00:47:14   Alright, interesting. Very interesting. I am really torn now, because the stuff we've

00:47:21   got left on our possible pick list, I don't love any of it.

00:47:25   Gets a little ropey at this point. It does. It does. Are we going to do five,

00:47:30   or are we going to keep going? What do you think?

00:47:32   It's totally up to you. I think we should do seven, because we have more than enough

00:47:37   here. Let's do it. Let's do it then. Alright, well,

00:47:39   I'm gonna go with a very specific prediction for number five, which is that all the Macs

00:47:46   that are updated, or announced, I suppose it's announced on stage as being updated,

00:47:52   right, because it's on stage, will have USB-C or Thunderbolt 3 ports.

00:47:59   Not necessarily every port, but all of them will have at least one USB-C or Thunderbolt

00:48:06   3 port. Because I think this is the pivot for Apple. I think this is when we start to

00:48:12   see USB-C in the entire product line. And it may, you know, there may be some product

00:48:17   that gets an update that nobody talks about that's not even on a press release and that's

00:48:21   on the Apple Store and they don't talk about it that is a laggard here, but I think any

00:48:25   of the products that they talk about on stage will be getting USB-C/Thunderbolt 3.

00:48:31   So my feeling about that is that prediction hinges on what happens in the MacBook Air.

00:48:37   I think you're right.

00:48:38   I think that's it.

00:48:39   If the MacBook Air sticks around, then that will not come true because they will keep

00:48:46   it exactly the same.

00:48:47   I don't think that they would change the I/O on it, but we'll see.

00:48:50   I'm going to go out on another limb here.

00:48:52   So we have, I think, I think we have three product lines left to talk about a refresh

00:48:56   from the Mac.

00:48:57   And the one that I'm going to go with next, because I think if they're going to do it

00:49:02   any time it will be now, is that Apple will refresh the Mac Pro.

00:49:10   This feels like if they're going to do it, they would do it now to appease the same group

00:49:15   of people that they appeased when they introduced this product.

00:49:19   Now by refresh you really literally mean they mention on stage that there has been a change

00:49:25   of some sort to the Mac Pro in terms of its specs.

00:49:29   It is still the trash can. I think that it will be beefed up processes better.

00:49:33   I mean if they totally redesign it, that counts too as far as I'm concerned.

00:49:37   Sure, I mean that will be the biggest refresh possible.

00:49:39   Shorter than leaving it alone and just cutting the price or not mentioning it all.

00:49:43   But if they change the specs on the Mac Pro and mention that on stage, you get this one.

00:49:48   Some change to the internals, which I think they're going to do. I think we're going to get

00:49:51   better processors, I think we're going to get better graphics cards, and I think we're going

00:49:55   going to see USB-C on it. And I think that there is enough that they can change in the

00:50:00   Mac Pro that I think they are much more likely to talk about this than the other products

00:50:04   that we have left.

00:50:05   Tim Cynova So my concern here, and this is something

00:50:08   that anybody who listens to ATP knows, is that in terms of timing, they're in between

00:50:14   Xeon revisions for the Mac Pro. So if they update it now, they're actually updating

00:50:20   it to chips from six months ago.

00:50:21   Does Apple care about that?

00:50:23   So here's the thing, I get what Marco especially says about how it's like what we want to do is release it when the new ones come out.

00:50:31   I get that. At the same time, it's so old.

00:50:34   Any change is good.

00:50:36   Apple could just change it to the ones that are six months old and change to modern GPUs.

00:50:42   and it's still gonna be better news than what's out there and maybe then maybe

00:50:47   they do slip to the next generation in six or nine months there's nothing

00:50:51   stopping them from doing that but it gets that refreshed for me this hinges

00:50:57   on the external display is there a retina external display or not and if

00:51:01   that's not ready I think they would push off a Mac Pro announcement but if it is

00:51:07   ready then I think it's a natural to say look it works with the new Mac Pro it

00:51:11   it works with the MacBook Pro.

00:51:13   It works with the new iMacs.

00:51:16   They all work with this external display.

00:51:18   Isn't that amazing?

00:51:19   And it's part of that larger story.

00:51:20   And I hope that happens,

00:51:22   but the Mac Pro, that's what,

00:51:24   I'm inclined to agree with you on this because of that,

00:51:27   because of the fact that it's been so long

00:51:30   that maybe Apple doesn't care

00:51:31   if it's a six month old processor,

00:51:33   because it's better than what they've got now by a lot.

00:51:35   - With a six month old processor,

00:51:37   they can draw graphs on stage

00:51:38   where they have 2x, 5x, 10x performance increases.

00:51:42   I think at this point, Apple has shown that they are not,

00:51:46   for whatever reason, they are not completely focused

00:51:48   on keeping all of their Macs up to date

00:51:50   with the latest and greatest CPUs.

00:51:52   This is not something that is at the top of Apple's list

00:51:56   for many different reasons,

00:51:57   some that I would agree with, some that I won't, right?

00:51:59   Like, I can see why they would wanna make sure

00:52:01   that they try and keep it standard,

00:52:02   they wanna make sure that they're maximizing the profit

00:52:04   they can make out of the computers,

00:52:05   and that means keeping them around for a little longer.

00:52:07   I get all of this as a business.

00:52:09   That's why I think they might do it,

00:52:10   even though that they're in between.

00:52:12   I will say about the, I mean,

00:52:13   and so I will pull back the curtain here.

00:52:16   The Retina external display is in our possible picks list.

00:52:19   Neither of us have picked it yet,

00:52:20   but I will say I think that they would still do this

00:52:25   even if the Retina display is six months away

00:52:28   and pre-announce the Retina display.

00:52:31   It's not gonna cannibalize any product

00:52:33   that Apple currently has.

00:52:35   - That's true.

00:52:36   don't sell one and it will placate the people that want it. So that we're working on it,

00:52:42   it's going to have this and it will be out then. And I will say that the trash can Mac

00:52:47   Pro is why they would do that, right? When they first announced that, that thing was

00:52:51   like six months away. But they needed to do it then for whatever reason they needed to

00:52:55   do it. I think that they might do that with the Retina display. If it's not ready, I think

00:52:59   it wouldn't stop them at this point from updating these computers. Because the Mac Book Pro

00:53:05   needs this as well, but they're not going to delay that for it.

00:53:09   We will see. I'm going to go with a wacky one, wackier than we've been up to now even,

00:53:14   which is I think that Apple will mention in some way that developers will get some sort of access

00:53:24   to the Magic Toolbar thing on the MacBook Pro.

00:53:29   I am denied about this one.

00:53:31   I'm, well that's why I'm picking it sixth, but my feeling is that they will make some

00:53:37   sort of promise about how your favorite apps, I mean even if what they say is your favorite

00:53:42   apps will be able to use this, that is enough. That is enough. But this is the question is,

00:53:49   is it only for system right now? Sure it's inevitable that you will have access from

00:53:54   other things I think, but Will they mention it on stage as a part of this, as one of the

00:53:58   the great features is that your favorite apps will be able to access this and do that in

00:54:02   some way, that the developers will have some sort of access to that device. And if they

00:54:07   do that, if they talk about third-party apps being able to use it, then that one is a checkmark.

00:54:14   I'm going to go next up and say that the current 12-inch MacBook, aka MacBook One or

00:54:20   MacBook Adorable, will get a speed bump mentioned on stage. And this is me doubling down.

00:54:27   So this is MacBook Adorable late 2016, a second update in the calendar year.

00:54:33   I am doubling down on my MacBook line here that they will say it's gonna join this one

00:54:42   on in the line which also today gets this which the other one has.

00:54:46   Thunderbolt 3 presumably and maybe.

00:54:49   I think it will be something, if it goes the way I think it might or at least I'm picking

00:54:53   where they say we have this 13 inch MacBook, it looks like this, you can get it in these

00:54:56   colors it has this display it has fun of all three it joins the 12 inch in a

00:55:01   line which as of today also gets this this and this all right trying my best

00:55:05   here to think of how Apple events are run and that that's the way that I think

00:55:09   that that one will work do you think this is gonna be a prime merit this is

00:55:12   not we can put this in the draught I had in the world it seems maybe a primarily

00:55:15   Schiller fest maybe a bit of Federighi it's probably just gonna be the two of

00:55:20   them right I expect yeah I if I had to predict it would be like Tim at the

00:55:24   beginning for an update and then and then Phil and maybe Craig yeah they're

00:55:29   the Mac guys seventh and final pick mr. snow so many to choose from none of them

00:55:35   none of them have a huge confidence in me I put some wacky ones in here yeah

00:55:41   I'm tempted to pick that are pretty pretty wild I'm gonna go I'm gonna well

00:55:47   one of them is Mac Pro mentioned in any way on stage which I like because that

00:55:51   basically is like, "We didn't do anything with the Mac Pro, suckers!" and that would

00:55:55   count, right? Or, "We'll update the Mac Pro next year," or whatever. But I think that

00:56:01   although I like dreaming about Apple mentioning products that are not updating on stage, and

00:56:06   I've picked that in previous drafts, that hasn't happened. So I'm going to go, to counter

00:56:10   your Mac Pro, refresh, I'm going to go with the Retina external display. That some external

00:56:17   display will be shown on stage whether it's preannounced or announced or whatever, the

00:56:24   existence of an Apple branded external display that will connect to the MacBook Pro and presumably

00:56:31   a new version of the Mac Pro or whatever. Let's just put it in there. That will get

00:56:36   some screen time. We're finally going to get a replacement for the old Thunderbolt

00:56:39   display.

00:56:40   For my final pick, I'm going to hedge my own bets with refreshed MacBook Air without retina

00:56:49   display.

00:56:50   Oh, look at that.

00:56:52   It'd be something if you got both of those.

00:56:54   Can you imagine?

00:56:56   Wow.

00:56:57   Yeah, they refresh the MacBook Air and introduce a new MacBook.

00:57:01   Yeah, so that's me hedging my bets.

00:57:03   Okay.

00:57:04   Because something's going to happen to the MacBook Air, whether they rev it or they just

00:57:10   they're done with it. What if nothing happens?

00:57:13   Then it would be very very surprising.

00:57:16   Shall we run through because at least they're worth mentioning.

00:57:20   These are the last five things that were not picked from Unpossible Picks.

00:57:25   I want to mention too, Joe Steele in the chat room picks,

00:57:28   so he'll get a point if he gets this right, he picks

00:57:31   a 4K Apple TV.

00:57:34   That could happen. So it's possible that if we're completely wrong and this is

00:57:38   entirely an Apple TV event that Joe Steele wins the draft. Just possible.

00:57:42   That is a possible swerve product. Yeah, right? It's possible. It's a... it would

00:57:50   be time for that. It's a weird event for that. And... but hey, I think that's a cool...

00:57:56   I think that's a cool pick. So good job, Joe. You get a point. And you would finish third.

00:58:02   So as you mentioned the phrase "it would be time," something we should mention that I

00:58:07   I think we're both pretty much in complete agreement on,

00:58:09   but if we don't mention it, people will ask us.

00:58:11   Even though it would be one year

00:58:14   since the 9.7 inch iPad Pro was introduced,

00:58:17   I think we are both very confident

00:58:19   that there will be no iPads introduced on Thursday.

00:58:23   No refreshes, nothing.

00:58:24   - 'Cause we feel like they're moving that to the spring,

00:58:26   that when the 9.7 got announced--

00:58:31   - Oh yes, it's the 12.9, sorry, not the 9.7.

00:58:33   - The 12.9 will now slide to that new date,

00:58:36   and that there might even be an iOS update that goes along with it that improves some

00:58:41   iPad features. That's the theory. You could have picked it, we could have picked it, but

00:58:45   we didn't, and that's why.

00:58:46   >> Because we're both, I think we're both very confident in the things that we've heard

00:58:50   and just what we assume based on release schedules and stuff. The 12.9 is less important than

00:58:55   9.7.

00:58:57   >> And Joe says that Chromecast is getting 4K Google Play videos come November, so it

00:59:03   would seem that perhaps iTunes would also get that sort of digital catalog of

00:59:06   4k movies and then having a 4k. That is, you know, it's a differentiator on those

00:59:11   boxes that they do 4k. Whether people have the TVs and can tell the

00:59:15   difference and all that is still an argument, but having Apple have a

00:59:18   presence at the top of the line of the Apple TV that was, "Yes, this does 4k,"

00:59:23   it would be another check mark on that product and they could

00:59:28   probably release it with essentially nothing else, right? Just, "And it does."

00:59:31   this is a new Apple TV model that does 4K and otherwise looks exactly like the

00:59:36   other Apple TVs and they're done. I can see them quite easily just saying that

00:59:40   they don't care though as well like that they just don't care. Yeah that's why we

00:59:44   didn't pick it. And then it will come later. But Joe gets that pick. It's a solid pick to think that something might happen with the Apple TV.

00:59:52   I'll tell you what and this is against Joe's will but I'm gonna give all of the

00:59:58   picks we didn't pick to Joe Steele. Oh, very interesting. Okay, well just Joe and other

01:00:06   Upgradients we'll say. It's the Field. That's good. It's the Field picks. So they get 4K

01:00:12   Apple TV. Yep. And so the Upgradients also will get if the MacBook Air is refreshed with

01:00:20   the Retina display. So the current MacBook Air with the big silver bezel, nothing changes.

01:00:24   Well maybe it could get some other things, but it gets the Retina display, but it looks

01:00:27   exactly the same. A USB-C to standard USB adapter or a dock will be mentioned on stage.

01:00:36   Right, and I envision this as one of these things that Phil Schiller would toss off,

01:00:40   basically like, and for your old USB peripherals, there's an adapter in the box, or we'll sell

01:00:45   an adapter, something like that, that they, as part of this USB-C transition, they will

01:00:50   pay lip service to the fact that you can adapt to the old stuff.

01:00:55   They will also get, you are upgrade-ians, led by Justeel, at least one Mac will ship

01:01:02   without a headphone jack.

01:01:05   This is my trolling entry, which is like, can you imagine?

01:01:07   But it could happen.

01:01:09   It could be that MacBook Adorable that you picked with the speed bump.

01:01:14   Could it be that it has two USB-C and no headphone jack?

01:01:18   Could it be?

01:01:19   It could be.

01:01:20   It could be.

01:01:21   Or they replace the headphone jack with a lightning port.

01:01:25   possible. People, we didn't say these were the good ones. These are the ones that were

01:01:29   left over. Don't get excited about winning the draft. That's all we're saying.

01:01:33   Very unlikely that you'll win the draft. Mac Pro mentioned on stage in any way is in there?

01:01:38   Yes. Yeah, that's my, you know, "Hey, we'll update the Mac Pro eventually." Or, "This

01:01:44   also works with the Mac Pro." Or something, just "Existence of Mac Pro acknowledged" is

01:01:49   what that entry is. Refreshed Mac Mini, right there at the bottom.

01:01:55   They, I believe they may do it, but if they do it, they're not putting that on stage.

01:01:59   I think it's very possible.

01:02:01   If they refresh everything, the Mac Mini will get something.

01:02:05   Literally it would have to be like a slide where they show other systems and they say

01:02:09   we also are announcing upgrades, you know, updates to the iMac and Mac Pro and Mac Mini

01:02:14   today.

01:02:15   Next, right?

01:02:16   That would be basically, I think that's the best case scenario for the Mac Mini, is that

01:02:21   it is mentioned in passing or appears on a slide.

01:02:26   So this does mean though that the up gradients only get six, but we get seven.

01:02:32   What should the seventh pick be then?

01:02:34   iPads.

01:02:35   We're gonna give the field iPads?

01:02:37   Yep.

01:02:38   I don't think of anything else.

01:02:40   Oh, how about this?

01:02:42   I got one.

01:02:43   I got one.

01:02:44   iPod touch.

01:02:46   You know what?

01:02:47   That's better than iPads.

01:02:49   Yeah, right?

01:02:50   You never know.

01:02:51   Yeah, I can get on board with that.

01:02:55   So that's the basket of bad that we're giving to Joe and the other Upgradians.

01:03:01   Those are our field picks.

01:03:03   Good luck to you all.

01:03:05   So now if a Mac Mini gets mentioned on stage, all of the Upgradians will cheer, is what

01:03:09   I'm saying.

01:03:12   There may be some things in this list, right, that the Upgradians may get, but they're not

01:03:18   going to beat us.

01:03:19   I think not. If you get any, I think we're more likely to get a few more.

01:03:26   So there you go. That is the draft. Of course there will be a scorecard in the show notes,

01:03:31   so you will be able to play along at home. I would like to make it very clear in advance,

01:03:36   it doesn't matter what you say are the scores, we decide the scores. No giving three points

01:03:43   to Jason for something random because they introduced three MacBook Pros or something.

01:03:50   That's not how it works.

01:03:51   No, that's not how it works.

01:03:54   But you will be able to play along at home. Please send us in your scorecards, but it

01:03:58   will not affect the final score. The only person who can affect the final score outside

01:04:02   of me and Jason is our adjudicator who has not agreed to be adjudicator. This is Steven

01:04:06   Hackett.

01:04:07   And if he can't fulfill the job, then I think it goes to Joe Steele at that point.

01:04:14   No, because Joe might ruin his favor completely.

01:04:17   Well, that would be something to see, right?

01:04:20   He has the opportunity to snatch this.

01:04:24   I think we've done some important work here today.

01:04:27   This has become, quite quickly, my favorite thing about Apple events, is drafting them.

01:04:34   It's just adds a level of excitement.

01:04:36   days we know everything that's gonna happen but what you don't know is who's gonna win.

01:04:40   Okay we'll make, we're gonna make Kathy the uh, Kathy the backup for Steven. Okay. Mrs.

01:04:46   Soup in the chat room, she's the backup. But I think Steven will be able to uh, fulfill

01:04:49   this duty. I think so. He's a level-headed person. Yeah, so uh, this just adds a level

01:04:55   of excitement to the events now. I know, it does, right? It does. I have to, I have to

01:04:59   try and focus on my job and not on who's winning the draft while I was announcing things. I

01:05:04   completely on who's winning the draft. I just deal with everything else later on.

01:05:10   So yeah, we'll be talking, you will find out next week for sure on next week's episode

01:05:14   of Upgrade who has won the draft. And if you're looking for analysis and thoughts following

01:05:19   the keynote, you want to tune in to Connected at Relay FM where me and Steven and Federico

01:05:25   Fattici will be discussing the Mac events. I feel like Federico is going to be very quiet

01:05:31   on this week's episode of Connected, but he will be there to maybe provide some moral

01:05:36   support for me and Steven along the way.

01:05:39   Maybe.

01:05:40   I really feel sorry for Steven in all of this.

01:05:41   This is all heavily on his shoulders.

01:05:44   Because there is a level of apathy about the Mac on Connected, which is like a sliding

01:05:50   scale.

01:05:51   Poor guy.

01:05:52   But he can do it.

01:05:53   And he's very excited.

01:05:54   Steven's very excited.

01:05:55   We've got to put people who care about the Mac on these podcasts.

01:05:58   It's tough to be the person who cares about the Mac when you're surrounded by people who

01:06:01   don't.

01:06:02   I mean, last week's episode would say that you might be moving away, isn't it?

01:06:06   But only when I'm traveling.

01:06:07   I mean, I thought I made it clear, although I did hear from...

01:06:10   There was some peculiar feedback we got about that, but it's like, I sit at my desk in front

01:06:14   of a Mac for like eight or 10 hours a day.

01:06:17   It's pretty much my primary thing that I use.

01:06:20   So I'm not moving away from the Mac at all.

01:06:22   But Connected's got a good mix, right, of Steven, who's almost entirely Mac, and you,

01:06:28   who was Mac for work things and iPad for everything else,

01:06:31   and then Federico who's all iOS.

01:06:32   So it's a good mixture.

01:06:34   - It is a good mix.

01:06:36   All right, this week's episode,

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01:09:32   Mr Jason Snell, it is time for Ask Upgrade, sent with lasers.

01:09:37   Yes, let's do it. It's been a long show, but let's get some quickly in here before

01:09:42   we go.

01:09:43   like to know, I'm looking for over ear wireless headphones to keep my ears warmer in the winter.

01:09:49   Do you think there's any chance that the Beats Studio line will get the W1 chip?

01:09:54   I think that this is likely that more Beats headphones will get the W1 chip in them.

01:10:08   At least it is more likely than any other headphones getting the W1 chip.

01:10:13   right? I think it's more likely that there will be more Beats headphones that get it

01:10:18   than Bose, for example.

01:10:20   Yeah, well of course. I think that's absolutely true. And I imagine that Apple will want this

01:10:25   in the entire Beats line eventually. Beyond that, I don't know because I don't understand

01:10:32   over-ear headphones or winter.

01:10:34   California. Angela wants to know, "Do you guys use apps like Little Snitch or Little

01:10:41   flocker to protect against malware or ransomware?

01:11:09   just too many false positives for stuff like this. And I have backups. If somebody really

01:11:14   were to ransom my data, I would just use the backups. And yeah, but I don't run antivirus

01:11:23   software either. So, you know, I'm not saying that this is for everybody, but I don't use

01:11:29   any of that stuff.

01:11:31   Nathan asked a question that really made my eyebrows raise. I've heard a lot of people

01:11:36   talking about wanting to replace their MacBook Pros. Do you think the MacBook Pros that will

01:11:40   be announced this week will be supply constrained?" I went, "Hmm, that's a very good question."

01:11:47   Probably yes, and it's going, I think, in two ways. Way more people that want them than

01:11:53   they're going to make, and because it is a product which has this new feature, which

01:11:57   seems like it's already been delayed, maybe, there ain't as a strong chance of supply constraints.

01:12:03   Oh Myke, you know I just thought of a great draft pick that we didn't make which was colors

01:12:09   on the MacBook Pro.

01:12:11   Oh!

01:12:12   That would have been a good one because what I was going to say to Nathan is you may be

01:12:16   able to get a MacBook Pro but only in rose gold and you're going to have to decide do

01:12:19   I want a rose gold MacBook Pro or not.

01:12:21   I don't know if they're going to make those in colors or not.

01:12:23   It would be great if they did.

01:12:24   If they make rose gold ones that's the one I am buying.

01:12:27   Either that or the gold one.

01:12:28   I'm going gold or rose gold.

01:12:29   I've had enough of silver computers.

01:12:33   then it's not enough for me, you know? It's just a black one. I want colors in my computers.

01:12:38   Mmm, I know you do. So you can cover them with stickers?

01:12:42   So I can cover them with stickers. Well, you know, then you... but not on the inside,

01:12:45   you know? I want to see something. Anyhow, yeah, I reckon there definitely will be colors,

01:12:50   and I'm interested to think what that could look like from a supply constraint perspective.

01:12:56   All right, Joe and other Upgradients, you get colors on the MacBook Pro. Congratulations.

01:12:59   Which means we need to take one away from them, so let's take the iPod Touch away.

01:13:03   Okay. So that is one that I think they're probably very likely to get. So we've just given you one

01:13:07   there, Upgradients. Aren't we nice? I think there will be a supply constraint, Nathan.

01:13:12   Something to think about. I think that is probably true. Mudkip asked, Mudkip didn't have a name

01:13:17   attached to the Twitter profile. Mudkip is a Pokemon. Anyhow, do either of you change the

01:13:22   icons of folders on your Macs? That's a great question. There was a time back in the day when

01:13:28   this was the most common thing that you did to your Mac.

01:13:32   With Candy Bar?

01:13:33   Custom icons on your folders and on your hard drive and all of that.

01:13:38   And at some point I just stopped. I don't do it anymore. I used to have them.

01:13:43   All of my stuff had custom icons and stuff. But at some point I just stopped. I don't know why.

01:13:51   Here's the thing that was funny for me. I stopped doing any of this when I had good internet access.

01:13:57   And the reason was I had things to do on my computer that were interesting as opposed

01:14:04   to just not really having good internet but I wanted to use the computer so I had to find

01:14:07   things to do. I was very heavy into software customisation stuff when my internet access

01:14:14   was more restricted because I loved doing things on the computer but didn't have much

01:14:18   to do other than just explore what the computer could do. And that's when I used to change

01:14:23   things like icons and really customized stuff. But now, but like when the internet access

01:14:29   got good enough, like it wasn't a case where like I could, why I could use the internet

01:14:33   all the time because it wasn't dial-up or whatever, it was fast enough that I could

01:14:36   actually, you know, do play games or whatever. That was where I stopped doing any of that.

01:14:41   The last time I set a custom icon for something on my Mac was I wanted to put a folder in

01:14:47   my dock with some very specific stuff in it for quick access. And I found an icon and

01:14:54   pasted it into that folder so that in the dock it would show up with that icon instead

01:14:58   of a generic folder icon. That's the last time I did it.

01:15:01   That's a cool thing to do. And continuing this trail, Mark wants to know, "Is your

01:15:07   Mac's desktop a mess? Is there any order to it? How often do you tidy it up?" So my

01:15:12   My Mac's desktop has about 10 folders on it and they're for various projects.

01:15:22   Now those 10 folders are always there, so they're like a specific podcast where I keep

01:15:28   the files on my desktop for a long time or I have a general where all my logic projects

01:15:33   go or where all my videos go, that kind of thing.

01:15:36   My desktop gets filled with various audio files

01:15:40   through the week, but I clear it.

01:15:43   Not on a specific schedule,

01:15:44   but when it looks like there's a lot of them,

01:15:46   I grab all the audio files and I just drag them to the trash

01:15:49   once the episodes have been published.

01:15:52   So I tend to keep a pretty clean desktop

01:15:54   considering I have a 5K iMac, right?

01:15:56   So like those 10 folders,

01:15:58   they don't take up a lot of screen real estate.

01:16:01   - Mm-hmm.

01:16:02   Yeah, for me, it's my to-do list.

01:16:05   so it can be messy, but it's usually not that messy. I tidy it up every so often, I

01:16:10   drag things into my Dropbox and then they're filed away or I drag them into

01:16:14   some other place. But I do leave active projects out there, things that I need to

01:16:20   act on and file or move or whatever. So if I've got a podcast I need to edit this

01:16:26   week, I will pull it out of my work-in-progress folder on my server and

01:16:30   I'll put it on the desktop and then it sits there until I'm done with it and

01:16:33   I file it back away again. So it is for active projects, it's usually not like a hundred

01:16:38   things scattered around, it's nothing like that. I'll also use it to, you know, if I'm

01:16:42   pulling images down and processing them and uploading them and stuff like that, you know,

01:16:47   it's the working location, so there'll be junk out there. If you looked at a random

01:16:52   time, you would see some junk on my desktop, but not a lot of it and it doesn't stay there

01:16:56   very long.

01:16:57   Well that's that. So we'll be back next week and we will be together in Ireland recording

01:17:04   live from all.

01:17:05   Yeah, can you, can you believe that?

01:17:08   It doesn't feel like it would be time.

01:17:10   I don't think it'll be Monday though, right? It'll probably be Tuesday.

01:17:13   It will be next week. We don't know when it will be.

01:17:16   Let's just say we will be back next week in person from Ireland with another, another

01:17:20   upgrade from Ireland. Not the first, even.

01:17:23   It'll be the second, right?

01:17:25   I think so.

01:17:26   I think it is. It's the second time. Yeah, because the first time was not upgrade, but

01:17:30   it was a conversation which we didn't record, which me and you had for a long time without

01:17:34   podcasting.

01:17:35   That's right. That's right. No, and the second time was when we had the various ventilation

01:17:39   systems in the hotel and made it be like there was a ghost.

01:17:42   Yeah, yeah. There was the pilot episode of Upgrade was recorded at all, but not recorded.

01:17:49   Not recorded at all, yeah.

01:17:52   Thank you so much for listening. Thank you to our sponsors this week, Smile with Text

01:17:56   Expander and Pearl with their ReVision backup camera. If you want to find our show notes

01:18:00   go to relay.fm/upgrades/112 that is where you will find the scorecard for the draft

01:18:07   so you'll be able to play along at home. If you want to follow us online there's a couple

01:18:11   places you can do that. You can go to @jsnell, J S N E double L on twitter, you can go to

01:18:16   6colors.com. Jason what type of live coverage if any will you be doing of the October event

01:18:21   on Six Colors. Some kind. Dan will be in the air during it, but I will be at the event,

01:18:28   so I will be doing some sort from there, whether it's tweets or a talk show or something else.

01:18:34   We'll see. I am online. I am @imike. I am YKE. I, along with Jason, host many shows

01:18:41   on Relay FM. You can find this show and many more at relay.fm. I also, in my spare time,

01:18:47   YouTube videos and they are at youtube.com/mikeandearly. Thank you so much for listening to this week's

01:18:53   episode. Upgradians, we'll be back next time. Until then, say goodbye, Jase the Snow.




01:18:59   [ Music ]