106: I've Reached Acceptance


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:08   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode number 106.

00:00:12   Today's show is brought to you by Hover, Ring, and Mack Weldon.

00:00:17   My name is Myke Hurley, I am joined by Mr. Jason Snell.

00:00:20   Hello, Jason Snell.

00:00:21   Hello, Mr. Myke Hurley, it's good to see you.

00:00:24   Again, and yeah, we are live in Portland.

00:00:26   We're here for the XOXO Festival.

00:00:28   So because we're in person, we are joined by Mr. Steven Hackett.

00:00:32   Hey boys. Hey Steven Hackett.

00:00:34   We were remarking earlier, this is my third live upgrade this year,

00:00:38   but the first two I was sick, so I was in the hallway.

00:00:42   Yeah, we banned you last time. Quarantined. But now I'm here and we're sitting around

00:00:46   table together and we're going to talk about web objects.

00:00:49   What?

00:00:50   And old acts. Okay, we're going to end this episode now. Thanks so much for listening, everyone.

00:00:55   Open doc? I have a lot of notes on open doc.

00:00:57   Stephen and I are going to talk about the Mac SE, Myke, so just sit on back and...

00:01:00   Oh, that happened that time, didn't it?

00:01:02   So let's pull back the curtain a little bit. I'm sure everyone remembers our iMac special.

00:01:08   I have vivid memories of sitting, looking out of my window,

00:01:12   [laughter]

00:01:14   as you two were just talking about iMacs.

00:01:16   It's like, well, I have nothing to say, so I'll just enjoy this. I'll just listen.

00:01:20   Now you know how I feel when I'm connected when we're talking about workflow.

00:01:22   Yep, or music streaming services.

00:01:24   services. Especially that. So we are at the XOXO festival in Portland, Oregon. This is

00:01:30   just a really nice kind of getaway festival. It's very relaxed so we're kind of just enjoying

00:01:34   each other's company for a few days. We were playing some board games today. We recorded

00:01:39   a top four special that's going to be out at some point in the next couple of days where

00:01:43   we just ate cereal from a cereal van. So that's XOXO. That's a thing. That's Portland for

00:01:50   This is just a fun thing. I think this is the last one, but if they ever do it again

00:01:55   and you have the means and the desire I recommend it.

00:01:59   So we do have some follow up today. This is from a couple of weeks ago but I didn't think

00:02:03   it was worth talking about last week. Which was, if you remember, we spoke about the idea

00:02:08   of maybe doing a, I said Myke at the magazine rack for comics.

00:02:13   Terrible name.

00:02:14   What do you want? You got a better one?

00:02:16   The follow up does.

00:02:17   Do you have a better one?

00:02:18   No.

00:02:19   So we were gonna do a comic segment at some point in the future and we have a couple of

00:02:25   suggestions. Ryan suggested Hurley and the Heroes, because what we're going for here

00:02:30   is alliteration, I don't know if I made that clear. But like you know, Myke at the movies,

00:02:35   right, it works, Casey at the cinema, dude thanks, that's how they go. But I like Ian's

00:02:40   suggestion the most, where he said "com Myke time". Now I am a fan of puns in such a way

00:02:47   that I like this. Now Jason, I don't know what, actually quite a few people suggested

00:02:51   Comike Time. Now I'm willing to break the alliteration for the incredible pun that has

00:02:57   been suggested. Jason, do you have any thoughts, any further considerations for our segment?

00:03:04   I'll take all of these great ideas under advisement and get back to you.

00:03:07   Oh so we're not deciding on a name today. So if you have any other ideas, please continue

00:03:13   to send them in with the hashtag #AskUpgrade, because that's a great way for us to collect

00:03:16   that stuff. Clearly, Ryan and Ian, you have not won the prize of naming the segment.

00:03:21   Not yet. Not yet.

00:03:23   Jason, I understand you have some follow up in regards to Apple announcing hardware features

00:03:28   and software features they haven't shipped.

00:03:30   Yeah, I complained last time in the aftermath of the Apple event about how Apple... it struck

00:03:36   me how Apple had a major feature tied to brand new hardware that it was essentially saying

00:03:42   this isn't going to be ready when it ships, but we'll do an update later in this case,

00:03:47   the bokeh feature, the, uh, on the, on the six on the seven plus. And I heard from a

00:03:53   lot of people about that, um, who mentioned Apple pay and it is accurate to say that Apple

00:03:59   pay, which was a major feature, uh, adding the NFC to, to, uh, to the iPhone six and

00:04:07   it didn't work on day one. And then there was a moment where they flipped the switch

00:04:11   and turned it on. I think that's a fair point. I guess the difference, the reason I didn't,

00:04:17   I was well aware of that fact. The reason I didn't mention it is, I've always kind of

00:04:21   ascribed that to the needs of getting, you know, hooks into a new payment system up and

00:04:28   running and working with all the payment partners and having a date where it's like, as of this

00:04:31   date Apple Pay is turned on. More than Apple's inability to ship it. I don't have, I think,

00:04:37   facts to bring to bear there about that this was totally ready to go by Apple and it was

00:04:43   just being delayed by the partnership.

00:04:46   It may be that the software wasn't ready, in which case this is an exact analog.

00:04:52   So that's a fair point, but my larger point was more just that I was surprised that this

00:04:57   is something that Apple could have prioritized potentially and shipped with the phone, and

00:05:05   I'm surprised that they didn't.

00:05:07   But for all we know, something happened. And somebody said, "This isn't good enough to

00:05:12   ship. Let's not ship it."

00:05:13   I think it's clear that it wasn't a decision that, "Oh, we'll create this feature and we'll

00:05:17   just ship it later." Like, it obviously was meant to be included. The invites were all

00:05:24   about it, right?

00:05:25   About it.

00:05:26   The extra credit. And that's what was kind of rivaling me, is the idea that this is just

00:05:29   an extra credit problem. This is just a bonus.

00:05:31   It's a nice spin, but it's not... I don't believe it.

00:05:34   It can't be accurate.

00:05:35   - It is code for we couldn't get this done in time.

00:05:38   - Yeah, exactly.

00:05:39   - There was one thing that I was thinking about,

00:05:41   like with the Apple Pay stuff,

00:05:42   I don't recall them ever saying this is coming later.

00:05:46   Like this is the difference here.

00:05:47   Things have been late, right?

00:05:49   And like weird things happen.

00:05:50   So like cross-platform features between iOS and the Mac

00:05:54   don't work when they don't release the operating systems

00:05:57   at the same time.

00:05:58   - Right.

00:05:59   - Right, but they don't ever really mention

00:05:59   that sort of stuff.

00:06:00   Like Handoff, Handoff was released in iOS

00:06:03   and I think Mac OS was like a little bit later

00:06:05   like it is this time.

00:06:06   - Right.

00:06:07   - Well that feature didn't work, right?

00:06:08   'Cause you couldn't do it.

00:06:09   So there are things like that where the timing slip,

00:06:11   but I think this is an unprecedented thing in recent years

00:06:15   that Apple had a thing that they're talking about

00:06:17   which isn't yet available, where they did it on stage.

00:06:20   'Cause you've got like 9.3, iOS 9.3 and stuff like that,

00:06:23   but it's the idea of like, hey, here's this product,

00:06:25   it's gonna do this great thing later.

00:06:28   - Well, I think the reason it's so strange

00:06:31   is that it is on their flagship device.

00:06:34   And I would argue the biggest new thing

00:06:38   in their flagship device this year.

00:06:39   - It's the reason for two cameras.

00:06:41   - Right, it is definitely strange.

00:06:44   And I know going back to the Apple Pay thing for a second,

00:06:46   they're still rolling banks out to Apple Pay.

00:06:48   I mean, how's it been a year, a year and a half later?

00:06:50   So that's a-- - Two years.

00:06:53   - Yeah, I think that's a--

00:06:54   - Apple Pay is a good point to bring up,

00:06:56   but I think it's the differences in nuance.

00:06:59   I think it is a good call for like, yeah, this is a thing that wasn't immediately available.

00:07:04   But the difference that we're looking at is like, this is the thing that Apple is pre-announcing

00:07:08   because they haven't finished yet.

00:07:09   Right.

00:07:10   It's a feature versus a service, like kind of a different field.

00:07:12   But yeah, it's just really weird that, I mean, I was trying to think about an analog even

00:07:17   like historically, and I can't really come up with one.

00:07:20   And I'm not trying to say what's wrong with Apple or anything like that when I say it.

00:07:24   It just struck me as being not something that I think I've seen Apple do where I thought

00:07:29   it was really interesting.

00:07:30   There's probably more to the story.

00:07:32   Like I said, I think they didn't want to do it this way.

00:07:35   Several people wrote in, I think quite rightly saying, the alternative is don't say that

00:07:40   this feature exists, but if somebody decides not to buy the iPhone 7 Plus and just goes

00:07:47   for the 7 because they're not impressed with the 2X zoom, and then two months from now

00:07:51   now you announce that you've got this other amazing feature

00:07:53   and they say, "God, I would have gotten the bigger phone

00:07:55   "if I had only known."

00:07:56   - This is a-- - That's a problem.

00:07:57   So you need to say, this is our intention,

00:07:59   we are going to ship this.

00:08:00   - Whatever they're calling it, portrait mode I think,

00:08:02   this is a landmark feature of that device.

00:08:05   Like, you have to talk about this.

00:08:07   Like, there's no way they could have just said like,

00:08:10   "Hey, 10.1, it's not like a small enhancement,

00:08:13   "it's like adding new emoji."

00:08:15   - Right.

00:08:16   - This is like a big checklist feature

00:08:18   that Apple wants to push.

00:08:20   Like this is a big thing for them.

00:08:21   - And I just didn't want to let, so I'm not saying,

00:08:24   oh, this is the show's doom for Apple or anything like that.

00:08:27   That's not the case.

00:08:28   But I also felt like just taking it at face value

00:08:32   and saying, oh, it's extra credit.

00:08:33   It's not that important.

00:08:34   It'll be there later and won't it be cool,

00:08:36   but it's just a bonus feature.

00:08:37   And I heard some people say that.

00:08:39   I'm sorry, that I don't buy.

00:08:41   That is Spin.

00:08:42   This is a feature that is key to this product

00:08:44   and it wasn't ready.

00:08:45   And I think that's what really kind of made me

00:08:47   want to talk about it a little bit more

00:08:48   than you might expect is that, because this is important,

00:08:52   and I am a little surprised that they didn't have it ready,

00:08:54   but I will say again, if somebody was brave enough,

00:08:58   let's use courage.

00:09:00   - Too soon, dude, too soon.

00:09:04   - To say, I know this is a banner feature,

00:09:06   but in the shape it's in right now, we should not ship it.

00:09:09   We should say that it's coming and ship it later.

00:09:11   If that's what happened here,

00:09:13   you actually have to kind of give them some credit,

00:09:16   Because they could have shipped it

00:09:17   and had it been terrible, right?

00:09:19   And just like fix it later.

00:09:21   And that's not what happened.

00:09:23   - The traditional Apple thing of holding the feature

00:09:25   for later, right?

00:09:26   That's like the traditional thing is

00:09:28   don't talk about anything you're doing.

00:09:29   Just surprise everyone.

00:09:31   - Yeah, I think the reason they had to talk about it

00:09:33   is they want to move people to the Plus.

00:09:35   It's a more expensive device.

00:09:37   They make more money from it.

00:09:38   And--

00:09:39   - They're able to do more with it.

00:09:40   - They're able to do more with it.

00:09:41   So I think it's part of the pitch.

00:09:44   - It's the biggest change in the whole product line too.

00:09:46   So that's the balance, right? And I agree with you, Jason, that if it is true that it

00:09:51   wasn't as good and someone had to say, "Hey, look, this needs a little more time," then

00:09:55   that's the sort of decision-making at Apple that I want to see. I want to see, "Hey, even

00:09:59   though this is awkward and even though this is going to be uncomfortable for us from a

00:10:03   press perspective, it's the right thing to do for the product," I can get behind that

00:10:07   sort of decision-making at the company.

00:10:11   So since the last episode between then and now the iPhones have gone on sale so I'm going

00:10:17   to talk about what we bought.

00:10:18   So I was going into this to get a Matt Black was what I was going to get.

00:10:24   The Black.

00:10:25   The Matt Black.

00:10:26   Black.

00:10:27   Matt Black.

00:10:28   Matt Black and Jet Black.

00:10:29   That's how I think of them.

00:10:30   I know it's called Black.

00:10:31   I like Matt Black.

00:10:32   Matt had nothing to do with it.

00:10:33   He did everything.

00:10:34   So I was going to get Black 128 Plus.

00:10:39   I opened the Apple Store app in the UK, absolutely no black of any kind, black or jet black available

00:10:49   on launch day for delivery or pickup at any size tier, they had none of them. So I decided

00:10:57   I then went back to my second pick, my original choice before they even showed the black which

00:11:02   was 128 gold plus which is what I've got for pick up. The reason I did this is I don't

00:11:09   care too much about the colour because I'm putting it in a case and for me personally

00:11:15   having the phone on day one is more important than the colour when I won't even pay attention

00:11:19   to that in a couple of weeks time. The reason I wanted the black one is because the back

00:11:25   of it was so nice but I'm never going to see that and I really like the accents that the

00:11:30   the gold and the rose gold have, like with the touch ID.

00:11:34   So I'm happy with the gold, that's what I went with,

00:11:37   because I want to be able to get it on day one,

00:11:39   'cause I like to have this stuff so I can talk about it.

00:11:43   I'm waiting until like October or November,

00:11:46   that doesn't work for me.

00:11:47   Like I want to be able to have the device

00:11:48   so I'm able to come on this show

00:11:50   and talk intelligently about it,

00:11:52   so that's why I always go for day one.

00:11:54   So that's what I did, and I'm happy with my decision,

00:11:56   'cause I was gonna get the gold anyway,

00:11:57   I have my gold iPad Pro, and I love it.

00:11:59   I love the gold, so that's what I went for.

00:12:02   Jason, did you buy anything?

00:12:05   - No, I am in the unique privilege position

00:12:07   of being a reviewer.

00:12:09   - Yep.

00:12:10   - And so that gives me the opportunity to review the phones

00:12:13   and try them out and then make a decision.

00:12:15   So I just decided to defer and I'll figure out

00:12:17   which one I'm gonna buy later on.

00:12:19   My guess is it will be something in black

00:12:21   and it will be a seven.

00:12:23   - With the hope that you'll get a unit at some point.

00:12:26   - Yeah, that I'll get a review in from Apple

00:12:28   and be able to use that and write about it

00:12:29   the launch and then I'll have those and from those lessons decide if do I want to buy one

00:12:35   and which one do I want to buy.

00:12:36   So, I mean you were on the fence about Plus. You're not going to go Plus? It was something

00:12:41   you were considering at least.

00:12:42   Yeah I think I mentioned this last time but that was a long show and it was very busy

00:12:48   and you were very sleepy.

00:12:50   I wasn't sleepy, it's just been a long day.

00:12:52   It's been a long day.

00:12:53   I'll say that.

00:12:55   So what has been described about the Plus where it's just, you've got the 2x camera

00:13:02   along with the 1x camera and this bokeh feature.

00:13:06   And a bit more battery life.

00:13:07   And a bit more battery life.

00:13:09   And it's enormous.

00:13:10   But that's a good thing.

00:13:13   The size is a good thing if it's what you're looking for.

00:13:16   You have a really big iPad.

00:13:17   Did you know about that?

00:13:18   I did know that.

00:13:19   I don't put it in my pocket.

00:13:20   And a big iPad.

00:13:21   I don't run with it.

00:13:22   You put it in a bag.

00:13:23   But it's the same idea, right?

00:13:24   It's like you're having the size for the utility of it.

00:13:27   That's what a lot of people like about it.

00:13:29   - Right, and my, unusually my iPhone

00:13:32   is not really my primary device

00:13:33   because I spend much more time on my iPad

00:13:35   because I, you know, an independent worker

00:13:38   or as you like to call it sometimes maybe a shut-in.

00:13:40   - A free agent.

00:13:41   - A shut-in, I was gonna say.

00:13:42   I never leave the house.

00:13:44   I rarely leave the house.

00:13:45   And so I'm leaning away from the plus for the same reason

00:13:48   which is it's very large and that means like

00:13:50   when I go running it's a much larger phone

00:13:52   wiggling in my pocket and all of those all of those reasons for it so it's and the camera on the seven is catching up

00:13:59   Okay, the seven camera is getting better too, even though it's not gonna have that now

00:14:03   I would love that I would love that 2x camera, but there's not enough of those features

00:14:07   I if I had been blown away with we're doing

00:14:10   Math to do amazing quality of that, but it really is just sort of like look we have two cameras

00:14:15   So you can go 1x and 2x and what I said last week was I got kind of caught up in the fantasy of what?

00:14:20   what a two camera set up could do. And the reality is it's camera one, camera two, one

00:14:25   x two x and that's cool and I like that feature but I'm not sure that is enough for me to

00:14:31   switch to a larger phone this year. So, but we'll see. I mean, my hope is that I will

00:14:35   get both models from Apple to try and that allows me to spend some time with both sizes

00:14:40   and see if my opinions changed at all about the bigger size.

00:14:44   Steven?

00:14:45   staying in the Plus Club, as one does.

00:14:48   So that was really a no brainer for me.

00:14:51   I like the size, I wanted the camera.

00:14:53   Doing the 128 gig, I was going to go up this year

00:14:57   from the 6S Plus, so I was happy to see

00:15:01   that they doubled that storage tier.

00:15:03   - Me too.

00:15:04   - So 128 gig and I did the regular black.

00:15:07   I was tempted by the jet black and they were still,

00:15:11   I think they were slipping by the time I got in to order.

00:15:14   there now the dates are a little for day one but I have a regular black for day

00:15:19   one for day one you see I think that well I think it's pretty obvious and I

00:15:24   think Apple even kind of hinted towards this that the black models are supply

00:15:28   constrained because they're new and you new manufacturing processes I think that

00:15:33   maybe they just didn't have they just didn't send and it's not sending them so

00:15:38   okay this isn't the first time there's another angle to that so last week

00:15:42   the news broke that Apple is not going to be sharing weekend launch weekend sales numbers

00:15:48   and reading the tea leaves I don't think it's hard to say that their number they can sell

00:15:54   is going to be limited by the number they have yielded.

00:15:57   Because one of the lines in that release was we're gonna sell out anyway.

00:16:01   Right and so if that number they've been able to produce is lower than whatever they sold

00:16:05   last time that number looks bad.

00:16:07   Like they would sell out no matter what it was but they actually can't make enough so

00:16:11   so it's gonna look like they've had a dip in sales,

00:16:13   which right now Apple does not need that.

00:16:16   - Right. - Right?

00:16:17   - And so my guess is that maybe that is the Jet Black

00:16:19   for some reason, they're harder to make.

00:16:21   - And maybe they're regular black as well,

00:16:22   'cause they said that they're both like immediately--

00:16:25   - They're both new.

00:16:26   - Late October, right? - Yeah.

00:16:27   - In the UK, so and this is normal

00:16:29   that they fill the US first.

00:16:32   - Sure. - As they would.

00:16:33   And then the rest of the world will wait.

00:16:36   - But yeah, but I got a little scared off

00:16:38   from the Jet Black about talk about micro abrasions

00:16:41   and whatnot. I do carry my phone without a case. So I want to see how the Jet Black phones

00:16:46   hold up and if that color sticks around and I end up liking it and they seem to wear okay

00:16:51   then I may do it next time but for now the regular black will sue me.

00:16:54   I want to play around with one. There's been a lot of people writing their impressions

00:16:58   and saying it's kind of tacky feeling.

00:17:00   It's a groupers said.

00:17:01   Yeah, a couple of people have said that. I know that you kind of felt like it was just...

00:17:06   I didn't get... I picked it up and put it down.

00:17:09   Maybe there has a sweater than yours. Maybe that's what it is.

00:17:12   But I want to see, I just want to see, because it's new as well, I just want to see what it looks like.

00:17:17   I'm hoping they will at least have display models in a store on Friday.

00:17:21   But yeah, I'm going in to pick it up at like 8.30 in the morning on Friday.

00:17:25   And then I'll have it all day to play around with them. We'll be able to talk about them on the show next week, which I'm really excited about.

00:17:30   Because I'm actually, we'll get into this a little later on, but I'm really excited for this phone.

00:17:35   I think there's a lot of interesting stuff there.

00:17:37   Unfortunately, and again, we're gonna talk about it

00:17:39   again today, some of the things that have been taken away

00:17:42   from it overshadowing the news of what it's got.

00:17:45   - That's true, that's a fair point.

00:17:46   - But the headlines and the things that are interesting

00:17:48   to think about is what's been taken away.

00:17:50   - And this is what, everything's happening, right?

00:17:53   This is the high season in many ways

00:17:56   for talking about what Apple's doing.

00:17:59   And so this week we're going to get new iPhones,

00:18:02   We're going to get a new version of iOS released to everybody.

00:18:05   And then coming down the pipe, we've also got the new, you know, Mac OS Sierra release.

00:18:09   So there's a lot going on.

00:18:10   The new watches are going to come.

00:18:12   - Hopefully new Macs.

00:18:13   - The AirPods will appear at some point, right?

00:18:16   I mean, all of that is happening in the next few weeks and that's exciting.

00:18:20   - All right, let's take a break.

00:18:21   This week's episode is brought to you by Mac World.

00:18:24   And now I want to tell you, if you're not wearing Mac World,

00:18:27   then whatever you are wearing is not good enough right now.

00:18:31   Macworlden believes in smart design, premium fabrics and simple shopping.

00:18:36   It's so easy to go to their website and just take a look at all the beautiful products

00:18:40   that they have and you can buy them.

00:18:42   I heard Stephen talk about this on Connected.

00:18:45   I love this too.

00:18:46   When you add things to your cart, there's this little bar that goes across the top which

00:18:50   adds all the savings.

00:18:51   So when I was buying some stuff, I got saving more money and I was buying more things to

00:18:54   save more money.

00:18:55   But I'm happy with everything that I got.

00:18:57   I traveled here with my Mac Weldon sweatpants

00:19:01   and I love those things so much.

00:19:03   They are now my traveling pants.

00:19:06   - Wow.

00:19:06   - See how I call them pants as well?

00:19:08   It makes me feel very uncomfortable.

00:19:09   - Yeah, I also am using my traveling pants for Mac Weldon,

00:19:13   but I mean--

00:19:14   - My pants.

00:19:14   - My underpants.

00:19:16   And Steven's wearing a nice Mac Weldon undershirt right now.

00:19:18   - I am.

00:19:19   - You can't see my underpants,

00:19:20   but you can see Steven's shirt.

00:19:21   - So they, like many of our sponsors do,

00:19:23   Mac Weldon kicked us out with some stuff,

00:19:26   but I am going to be buying more of their stuff

00:19:29   because it is really good.

00:19:32   Like the stuff looks good, the socks are great,

00:19:34   they're long socks, which is really interesting

00:19:36   and they have great colors.

00:19:37   Jason is pulling up his trousers to show me his socks.

00:19:40   I assume they're Mack Weldon socks.

00:19:42   - They are.

00:19:43   - I really, really like their stuff.

00:19:45   They make comfortable underwear, socks, shirts, undershirts,

00:19:48   hoodies, sweatpants.

00:19:49   I wanna try one of their hoodies as well

00:19:50   'cause the sweatpants are like a really interesting material

00:19:54   and they're super comfortable, they have great pockets.

00:19:56   They have pockets with zips,

00:19:58   and considering I'm traveling, I want pockets with zips.

00:20:01   It's like my passport and stuff,

00:20:03   like they're absolutely fantastic.

00:20:04   They have a line of silver underwear and shirts

00:20:07   that are naturally anti-microbial.

00:20:09   - Yeah, means they aren't gonna get all smelly.

00:20:11   - Yep, which is brilliant, some cool science stuff.

00:20:14   Maccawdon, I want you to be comfortable.

00:20:15   If you don't like your first pair of whatever you buy,

00:20:17   keep it and they'll refund you, no questions asked.

00:20:20   They do not want your underpants sent back to them.

00:20:25   - No they don't.

00:20:25   - You keep them.

00:20:26   - Give them to a friend.

00:20:27   - Do whatever you want.

00:20:28   - Wear them, don't wear them.

00:20:30   They don't want them back.

00:20:31   - But you should because it's great.

00:20:32   And they look good, they perform good,

00:20:34   you're gonna feel good.

00:20:35   Listeners of this show can get 20% off at Mac Weldon,

00:20:38   that's M-A-C-K-W-E-L-D-O-N dot com.

00:20:42   Just use the code upgrade to get 20% off at Mac Weldon dot com.

00:20:47   Thank you so much to Mac Weldon

00:20:48   for their support of this show and Relay FM.

00:20:51   So I'm trying so hard.

00:20:53   - Not to say Mac Worlding?

00:20:54   - Mac World On or Mac Welding.

00:20:56   (laughing)

00:20:57   When you weld a Mac together, it's Mac Welding.

00:21:00   - You don't wanna do that.

00:21:01   - No, you've probably tried it.

00:21:03   - The aluminum gets sort of burny.

00:21:06   - Melty.

00:21:08   iPhone upgrade program.

00:21:09   So we spoke about this last week.

00:21:11   It came to the UK and I was considering it,

00:21:13   but I took a look at it and I wasn't,

00:21:17   I don't know why, but I wasn't that keen.

00:21:19   I took a look at how much it would cost.

00:21:20   It was like 45 pounds a month

00:21:24   to get the iPhone unlocked that I wanted.

00:21:27   And for some reason, I was turned off by that.

00:21:30   Now, over the course of the product's life,

00:21:34   I wouldn't pay that much more,

00:21:35   'cause I mean, it was very expensive.

00:21:37   I think my phone was over 800 pounds.

00:21:39   It was incredibly expensive.

00:21:41   But the way that I've been dealing with that in the past

00:21:43   is by saving up through the year.

00:21:45   So I'm gonna, I personally am gonna keep doing it that way

00:21:48   because now I can sell my current phone

00:21:51   and make a little bit of money back.

00:21:53   - That's the math here is the iPhone upgrade program,

00:21:57   you're paying essentially the cost of the phone

00:22:02   divided out over 24 months,

00:22:04   but after 12 months you hand it back in,

00:22:07   the remaining 12 months is basically bought out

00:22:09   and you get a new phone and begin a new 24 month payoff.

00:22:12   So if you want to buy the phone yourself, like you did,

00:22:16   and you can sell it back or sell it to someone else

00:22:19   or give it to a friend who, however you wanna do that

00:22:23   and buy a new one then, if what you're getting back

00:22:27   after a year, let's say, is half the value of that phone,

00:22:31   you're in.

00:22:33   You've got exactly how much you had.

00:22:35   And if you can sell it for more than that,

00:22:37   which it probably is worth, you actually will be ahead,

00:22:40   but you have to have that money upfront.

00:22:41   - Exactly, so it's like I think that it is a good program

00:22:44   for people that haven't saved the money.

00:22:46   'Cause you're just doing it the other way around.

00:22:49   But because I had been to--

00:22:50   - Or don't want their phone back.

00:22:51   Like every year they have no interest in selling it

00:22:53   or giving it to a friend or handing it down

00:22:55   to a family member.

00:22:56   - You just don't wanna deal with that.

00:22:57   - They just wanna hand it in at the end of the year

00:22:59   and get the new iPhone and walk away.

00:23:01   - But from what I can see, it looks like,

00:23:04   so this is the first year where people have tried

00:23:06   to renew their phones.

00:23:07   It doesn't seem like it went very well.

00:23:09   No, there's been, it sounds like Apple was taken by surprise because it looks, what I've,

00:23:16   the reports I've been seeing the last few days are that Apple realizes this is a problem

00:23:20   and they started to change.

00:23:21   Like some of the notes used to say, you know, sorry we can't help you now, call us on September

00:23:26   16th or September 18th.

00:23:28   Like call us after the phone's been out a couple of days and we'll try to work with

00:23:31   you.

00:23:32   And that's changed to call our 800 number and tell them that you're with the upgrade

00:23:37   program and we will you know we'll try to help you out because the complaints are you

00:23:42   have to go to the store to pick it up which is for some people is problematic because

00:23:46   the stores can be far away.

00:23:48   Oh and you work.

00:23:50   And well all of those things they're open other hours but yeah you've got your life

00:23:53   and so you've got to get you've got to make a physical appearance at the store it sort

00:23:57   of makes sense because you do need to turn in your old phone.

00:24:00   It is the best thing for Apple to do rather than having to deal with people mailing their

00:24:05   phones in. Like I understand why they want you to go to a store but it's not always easy.

00:24:10   Right. They do need to be in good condition. I mean essentially what you're doing is leasing

00:24:14   your phone here because if you bring a phone back, just like if you lease a car and then

00:24:19   you bring it back and it's got a huge dent in it, they're going to charge you something

00:24:22   for that. If your phone is not in great condition when you bring it back, you actually will

00:24:27   be assessed an AppleCare fee and so that'll be money out of your pocket. That's all probably

00:24:34   was all specified in the documents that people signed up front but it's still not everybody

00:24:39   reads everything. On stage they just said you'll get a new phone. Yay! It's raining

00:24:43   from the sky. Exactly. But still it does feel strange that when a bunch of people who are

00:24:51   the most loyal excited iPhone buyers out there who say yes give me a new iPhone every year

00:24:56   I just want the latest iPhone. That when they went to finally do their first little swap

00:25:02   What they got was, well, you're not going to be able to get one for a while

00:25:07   because we don't have them, we don't have them in stock.

00:25:10   So even if you come in here, you're not going to be able to do that.

00:25:12   And on one level, I kind of understand that in terms of Apple

00:25:17   wanting to have stock for the people who are coming in to buy them.

00:25:19   On another level, those are the most loyal iPhone buyers.

00:25:22   This is the new customer, existing customer problem.

00:25:25   Right.

00:25:26   You know, like you have financial institutions, you get a better deal

00:25:29   if you're new and this is like the way you start to upset people because it's really

00:25:33   difficult to understand what's best but really they should be taking care of these people,

00:25:38   the existing customers. I think because these, if you're looking at your customer sat, this

00:25:43   is where you want these people to be happy. But this is another reason why I didn't go

00:25:49   with it because I started thinking to myself, it seems really uncertain as to how you get

00:25:54   the phone. It's completely out of your hands. I do pick up now because I can't stand what

00:25:58   waiting for delivery.

00:26:00   Like I want the idea of me clicking this phone

00:26:03   to be in my hands as much as possible.

00:26:05   - Instead of waiting for the person to come to your house

00:26:07   at 7 p.m. with a box.

00:26:09   - I'm just gonna go and I'm gonna get it

00:26:11   and I know it's mine.

00:26:13   And that's the problem with the iPhone upgrade program

00:26:15   is you may or may not get it,

00:26:17   who knows when you're gonna get it.

00:26:19   - I kind of expected it to work

00:26:20   that when they announced it,

00:26:21   the people would get their email that day that said,

00:26:25   new iPhone is here, you got one last year,

00:26:28   you're eligible on this date, make your choice,

00:26:32   and we will get you, and I know they're supply constrained,

00:26:36   but you would think that if they're eligible

00:26:39   on a particular date for their new iPhone,

00:26:42   that Apple would walk them through that process immediately

00:26:44   and say, we will get it to you, or come to this store,

00:26:48   or something like that.

00:26:49   And I know it's complex situation,

00:26:51   but it does feel like maybe these people

00:26:53   weren't taken care of as well as they should be.

00:26:55   - Maybe I walk through a land of lollipops and rainbows,

00:26:57   but like in my head, 'cause I'd never looked into this.

00:26:59   - Is that what England's like?

00:27:00   - It's what it's like.

00:27:02   Because I never really looked into this.

00:27:03   In my mind, it was always just,

00:27:05   they just send you a new one.

00:27:06   But the iPhones are announced and they're like,

00:27:07   hey, your new iPhone's on the way.

00:27:08   Like you don't do anything, they just send you it.

00:27:10   - We'll send you a new one, swap the SIM card out

00:27:12   and put the old one in the box and send it back to us.

00:27:14   - That was how I thought it went.

00:27:15   Like that you didn't even really need to do anything

00:27:17   and you were definitely getting one.

00:27:19   - You subscribed to the iPhone, right?

00:27:21   New iPhone comes, you get one. - So I'm pretty sure

00:27:22   that a lot of people thought

00:27:24   that this was the way it was gonna go.

00:27:26   Wonder what they could do to change this. I think there were people who leave the program right again the most enthusiastic

00:27:32   owners are now kind of

00:27:35   Left and left in the cold a little bit

00:27:38   I do like the idea that these people there's some sort of roped off inventory for the upgrade program and

00:27:46   Maybe on that that day of the announcement you say this is my preference and then it gets pulled out of the main channel

00:27:52   that the rest of us buy from.

00:27:54   But if the yields are really low,

00:27:56   then maybe it was just a decision that had to be made.

00:27:59   But I would think either way

00:28:02   that the way this works next year will be different.

00:28:05   I think they're going to hopefully learn their lesson.

00:28:08   'Cause there are a lot of vocal people about this

00:28:12   that just aren't happy.

00:28:13   And these are the customers you really wanna keep happy.

00:28:15   - And I understand why you would be unhappy as well.

00:28:17   - Yeah.

00:28:18   - 'Cause you've paid them a lot of money.

00:28:19   - And you've expected it, right?

00:28:20   For the whole year you've been told,

00:28:22   I can walk in and get a new iPhone and just trade this one in and maybe that's not the

00:28:25   case.

00:28:26   You know, I kind of don't understand why they can't.

00:28:29   I mean with the exception of the black models, you know, like the silver and the two golds,

00:28:36   if you have one of those, they could have just put that aside for you.

00:28:40   Like you know, they knew how many they needed to make.

00:28:43   Like I understand there's a problem with the black models because they're new and blah

00:28:47   blah blah blah.

00:28:48   But you know, it kind of just feels a little

00:28:50   upsetting for these people,

00:28:53   because, you know, we're all excited about this stuff, right?

00:28:55   Like we all want to get it.

00:28:56   It's all like Christmas morning, you know, like this is what we wait for

00:28:59   every year is the new iPhone that we get really excited about.

00:29:02   And it's a shame that there's these people that have had this expectation,

00:29:05   have been given a check to Apple every month,

00:29:07   and now they have to kind of wait.

00:29:10   And like the thing is, even worse than that, let's say you wait

00:29:12   for like a month or two, you're still paying the old one, right?

00:29:15   Like you don't have a new one.

00:29:16   And it's a shame.

00:29:17   And I get like, again, like it's like

00:29:20   with what we were just talking about a moment ago, this is a new thing.

00:29:24   They're trying to understand it and they're trying to work forward from it.

00:29:27   And I hope that we're going to see some change in the program going forward.

00:29:30   We'll see.

00:29:31   So I mentioned talking about things which have gone away.

00:29:36   I wanted to talk about the headphone jack a little bit more, because

00:29:40   at least for me, I have had some time now to

00:29:46   Assess my usage based on the facts that I have. Uh-huh because previously we didn't really know what they were gonna do

00:29:54   Right. Are they gonna go all Bluetooth? Are they gonna be lightning? Is there gonna be an adapter?

00:29:59   We didn't know any of this right sure, but now I know the realities. So I just took a trip and

00:30:04   My trip days are very long because of all the travel that I need to do like I

00:30:12   I'm awake and

00:30:15   traveling when I come to the US five hours before I got on my plane.

00:30:19   Those five hours include lots of phone time, listening to podcasts while I'm

00:30:24   traveling, checking documents, reading Twitter like I'm traveling with it.

00:30:28   So I arrived at the airport, got on the plane, sat down on the plane.

00:30:33   We took off and I had 17% battery life on my phone in power saving mode.

00:30:39   So like, OK.

00:30:41   And I was listening to ATP.

00:30:44   atp was three and a half hours long yep so I wasn't gonna get through that I only have

00:30:48   podcast downloaded on my phone right this is just how it was, this is how I've been

00:30:52   and I was listening with my headphones my my flight headphones I have some like Bose

00:30:57   headphones that I use and I grabbed a lightning cable plugged it into the power in the seat

00:31:03   plugged into my phone continued on my trip the next trip that I do with the exact same

00:31:12   hardware that I have now with no changes I can't do this my phone would have died

00:31:17   listening to that show or I had to stop listening and wait for my phone to

00:31:21   charge. This is just a thing. Just take an iPod with you. Please don't. But

00:31:27   that's the idea right there are there are and this is the thing the way around

00:31:31   this is there's gonna need to be changes that I make but it was just interesting

00:31:36   to me to finally really come across something that was an issue for me

00:31:41   Because I travel a lot and whenever I travel it's 20 hours of travel by the time I've reached

00:31:49   my destination.

00:31:51   My iPhone's not lasting that.

00:31:53   And it was just an interesting thing for me to think, okay, so now I have established

00:31:59   an area which needs to change.

00:32:02   So there are a bunch of different things that I can do.

00:32:04   I can go to Bluetooth now.

00:32:06   Get new headphones.

00:32:08   I can get new headphones.

00:32:10   I can use adapters.

00:32:12   There's this new crazy Belkin thing,

00:32:14   which has two lightning adapters, right?

00:32:16   The lightning splitter, so I could charge and listen.

00:32:19   There are a lot of different things I can do,

00:32:21   but for me it was more, ah, there is change needed.

00:32:25   And that's the thing that's interesting about this,

00:32:27   and I think it's the reason that people are upset,

00:32:29   is because this has been the way

00:32:33   that we've done it for 10 years,

00:32:35   and now we need to think differently, ding.

00:32:39   - So to speak. - So to speak,

00:32:40   about how we do these things.

00:32:42   So there's a couple of things I'm gonna put in the show notes.

00:32:44   One is to that Belkin thing.

00:32:46   And again, this is the other part.

00:32:47   No matter what I do here, it's more money.

00:32:50   It's costing me more money.

00:32:51   This Belkin adapter is 40 bucks.

00:32:52   - Yeah, Belkin adapter is two Lightnings.

00:32:54   I'm hoping that somebody will make one

00:32:56   that is a Lightning and a Mini Jack,

00:32:58   where it's like you charge, it passes through the charge

00:33:02   and it's taking analog audio out.

00:33:04   But that one, I don't think we've seen.

00:33:07   - I haven't seen anything now.

00:33:08   - 'Cause I saw this--

00:33:09   - It's what the Apple doc does, right?

00:33:11   The iPhone doc does.

00:33:12   - Carry it around in a doc all day.

00:33:14   Get your air tray in the airplane, open it up.

00:33:18   iPhone doc, iPhone.

00:33:20   Be very formal, be nice.

00:33:21   - Yeah, no, I wrote about this on Twitter.

00:33:24   A couple of weekends ago, I was in,

00:33:27   or no, last weekend, I was,

00:33:29   we took a family trip up into the mountains

00:33:31   and I was, we were GPS navigating.

00:33:35   And so that uses a lot of batteries.

00:33:36   So I had my phone plugged in and we were also listening.

00:33:39   to audio and my, it's the car my wife usually drives.

00:33:44   So her phone's in the car,

00:33:45   she's the one who's paired to Bluetooth,

00:33:47   I'm not paired to the Bluetooth.

00:33:48   And, but there's an aux plug.

00:33:51   And so I was using the aux out,

00:33:53   the analog headphone jack and charging simultaneously.

00:33:57   And I thought, well, I'm not gonna be able to do this

00:33:59   on the next iPhone.

00:34:00   I'm gonna have to make some changes there.

00:34:02   Which is not an argument.

00:34:04   - Change happens.

00:34:05   - Yeah, it's not an argument that,

00:34:06   oh, this means Apple shouldn't have done this.

00:34:08   - No, I'm past this now. - Right?

00:34:10   But it is thinking about how does this change affect me

00:34:15   and what's my strategy going to be

00:34:17   to deal with this change that has come upon me?

00:34:20   What am I gonna do differently?

00:34:21   What am I gonna have to buy?

00:34:23   New headphones, new adapters,

00:34:25   what are the changes going to be?

00:34:27   - Like I'm used to this now.

00:34:28   Controlled leaks work, right?

00:34:30   Like I've come to accept this as a thing.

00:34:32   - Although you saw me write the story

00:34:34   about the stages of grief when we were in Tennessee.

00:34:36   It's I'm at acceptance.

00:34:37   We've all reached acceptance.

00:34:39   There's still some angry people out there,

00:34:41   but I've reached acceptance.

00:34:42   - And I don't even think that like,

00:34:44   I'm not really upset about this anymore.

00:34:47   It's like.

00:34:49   - It's like a fact of nature.

00:34:50   - Yeah, do what you gotta do.

00:34:51   - It's like this is what happened.

00:34:52   - Yeah.

00:34:53   - We can argue about whether they should have done it or not,

00:34:54   but I feel like we spent the last eight months

00:34:56   arguing about this.

00:34:57   And now we're at just the point where it's one of the facts

00:35:00   on the ground is there's no headphone jack in the new iPhone.

00:35:03   So what you gonna do?

00:35:05   So one of the things that I saw this go by on Twitter,

00:35:07   it really made me laugh, and I'm gonna put in the show notes.

00:35:10   It's kind of a jokey image tweet,

00:35:14   but it makes a lot of sense, right?

00:35:17   As a lady called Alana Levinson,

00:35:19   she tweeted an image of how you would listen

00:35:23   in my scenario with my existing headphones and charge.

00:35:28   You would need to plug the Belkin charger in.

00:35:31   You would then plug a power cable

00:35:33   into one of the lightning cables of the Belkin charger,

00:35:36   you would then plug in the 3.5 to lightning adapter

00:35:40   and then your headphones into the 3.5 to lightning adapter.

00:35:42   - That's why I said there needs to be another adapter.

00:35:44   - There has to be something else.

00:35:45   But this was just really funny to me

00:35:47   because given the tools we have now, as of right today,

00:35:50   this is what you would do.

00:35:51   And there probably will be more tools.

00:35:53   'Cause like originally when I hit this problem

00:35:56   on the flight here, Belkin hadn't even announced

00:35:58   this thing yet, so there was no option.

00:36:01   So basically the reason that I'm thinking about this

00:36:04   and we're talking about this is this app

00:36:07   always ahead of the curve.

00:36:09   The rest of the world, the rest of the technology

00:36:12   is not at this point yet.

00:36:14   So we're in a transition period

00:36:17   and transition periods are typically a little bit ugly

00:36:20   and it will mean adapters and protocols

00:36:23   and or new technology.

00:36:24   And the thing is there are solutions.

00:36:28   I don't see things, I don't have any wireless headphones.

00:36:30   like that I want to use.

00:36:31   I have this one little pair of Bluetooth ones

00:36:33   that don't last very long and they're fine,

00:36:35   but they're not the ones I want to use every single day.

00:36:38   So I have to think about this.

00:36:41   We all have to think about it.

00:36:41   What do you want to do?

00:36:42   Like usually I use ear pods.

00:36:44   I use ear pods the majority of the time.

00:36:46   I have them in my pocket all day when I'm out.

00:36:48   They're the ones that I listen to when I'm out and about.

00:36:50   They're great.

00:36:51   And I'm going to be able to continue doing that

00:36:52   because Apple are going to ship a pair of ear pods

00:36:54   that I can use.

00:36:56   Great.

00:36:57   But then there are little things

00:36:58   that when I need to charge it, what do you do?

00:36:59   And it's just about thinking about that now,

00:37:02   that this is where we are and we need to kind of accept that.

00:37:06   - I would argue a little bit with the ahead of the curve

00:37:10   idea, I've seen this a couple places and I don't know

00:37:13   if removing the headphone jack was so inevitable so soon.

00:37:18   - No, it's the curve that Apple has set for themselves.

00:37:22   - Right, they are defining that.

00:37:24   We're saying other--

00:37:25   - It's Apple's curve.

00:37:26   - Right, okay.

00:37:27   - We're just all on it.

00:37:28   - Right, but you know, I agree with you.

00:37:29   It is something else to think about and have to process,

00:37:34   but I think at the end of the day,

00:37:35   and I'm not in favor of the decision,

00:37:37   but I understand that it's the reality.

00:37:39   I can't argue with it.

00:37:40   I'm still gonna buy a phone, right?

00:37:41   Some people are saying they're not gonna buy a phone.

00:37:42   That's fine, it's your decision.

00:37:44   - But you're stuck now,

00:37:45   because they're not gonna put it back.

00:37:47   - Right, yeah, they're not putting it back.

00:37:48   But the reality is I think we'll end up with,

00:37:52   you know, most, it seems like every 12 months or so,

00:37:55   I have to buy another pair of ear pods

00:37:57   because they go through the dryer or I lose them.

00:38:00   And so I figured, you know,

00:38:01   I'll pick up another pair of lightning

00:38:02   and keep them in my gym bag

00:38:04   and keep the adapter in my travel bag

00:38:07   and it'll mostly be okay.

00:38:09   But--

00:38:09   - But here's the thing though about that.

00:38:12   The headphones that we're buying now

00:38:14   are on average more expensive

00:38:17   because they're gonna be stuff like Bluetooth, right?

00:38:19   Like infomercial cases. - Well, we don't know.

00:38:20   I mean, I'm just talking about the lightning earbuds.

00:38:22   - No, I know, I know.

00:38:23   - But I agree with you because,

00:38:24   I mean, and I got into it the other day

00:38:26   on Twitter with some people saying, like, the idea that Bluetooth is or isn't an open

00:38:31   standard and what Apple's doing is a super set kind of on top of Bluetooth, but to your

00:38:36   point they are more expensive and the cheap ones are way worse than cheap headphones are,

00:38:42   wired headphones are.

00:38:43   You can pick up a pair of wired headphones for $5 and they'd be absolutely fine. You

00:38:50   can't get a pair of $5 Bluetooth headphones.

00:38:52   Exactly.

00:38:53   If I'm going on a trip and I've forgotten my headphones and I go to the airport store

00:38:59   And I want to buy Bluetooth headphones

00:39:01   I'm like

00:39:04   70 80 dollars if I'm lucky and you're still beats. Yeah. Well, I mean maybe

00:39:10   It's like, you know, we were talking about the affordable thing right like affordable 150 dollars affordable

00:39:17   Apple called those new Beats on stage. The affordable ones. And it's like affordable

00:39:22   for Beats, yes. But that's what you're paying for decent Bluetooth headphones.

00:39:28   There are $25 Bluetooth headphones. They're not very good. But they do exist. You also

00:39:33   have to wonder if eventually this will, there will be lightning headphones in all of those

00:39:38   kiosks at the airport because eventually because there will be enough iPhone people who don't

00:39:43   have a pair of headphones that they'll desperately need them.

00:39:45   See I don't know about this yet.

00:39:46   I think in the long run there will be just because there will be some demand for it

00:39:49   But in the short term in the short term you're gonna go there and you realize you forgot your headphones

00:39:53   And you're gonna go to the kiosk and there will literally be no wired headphones

00:39:57   You can buy because you don't have your adapter with you

00:39:59   And they don't they don't sell lightning headphones

00:40:02   And then now you're looking at do I pay a hundred and fifty dollars for a set of headphones here

00:40:06   Or do I just sit on my plane trip across the ocean without listening to podcasts or music thing is about the cheap headphones

00:40:13   I mean, I don't know enough about how the MFI program works

00:40:15   But, you know, what if there can't be really cheap headphones anymore because the MFI program

00:40:22   is too expensive?

00:40:23   Well, any Lightning headphones have to, since there's no analog out, it's all digital, Lightning

00:40:30   headphones have to have a DAC built into them, which means even if it's a cheap one, digital

00:40:34   analog converter, you know, it's like so much of the stuff with Lightning and with Thunderbolt

00:40:40   too, where these are intelligent connectors and there's hardware that you have to build

00:40:45   into them. So they can't be really cheap and crappy. And if they are cheap and crappy,

00:40:51   they're going to be extra cheap and crappy because they are now, if they're in there

00:40:59   with a really bad DAC, then they're going to sound bad. Because it used to be you plug

00:41:03   in cheap headphones, but at least the high quality audio converter in the iPhone is driving

00:41:08   them. But that won't be the case now.

00:41:10   So this is the thing, right? I'm past judgment stage. I don't think this is a good idea or

00:41:17   a bad idea. Like this is just what they're doing. I'm reserving judgment for actually

00:41:24   living in this world.

00:41:25   Yeah, yeah. What does it mean? And what are the ramifications of it, right? You turn around,

00:41:30   you live your life as you've been doing in traveling. You live your life and then you

00:41:33   realize, oh, here's something that's going to change in the near future.

00:41:38   But it might be okay.

00:41:40   In the end it will be okay eventually.

00:41:42   Yeah, but I don't know what it's going to look like yet.

00:41:46   We should talk about what Apple considers the solution a little bit more, which is AirPods.

00:41:52   Before we do that, let me take a moment to thank Hover for sponsoring this week's episode.

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00:43:34   Thank you so much to Hobba for their support of this show

00:43:37   and Relay FM.

00:43:38   Now Jason, I know that you wrote a little piece

00:43:42   on Six Colors talking about your experience with AirPods

00:43:47   in a little bit more detail.

00:43:50   - Yeah, I realized that what I wanted to do

00:43:51   was talk a little bit more about the hands-on experience

00:43:54   because that's one of those things

00:43:55   where if you were in the room, you got to use them.

00:43:59   And I thought that as much as I have complained about things like the headphone jack and if

00:44:04   it was really necessary to remove it, and I'm not a big fan, unlike you who carries

00:44:09   them around with you, and you apparently carry them around, I don't really like ear pods.

00:44:12   They work fine for me.

00:44:13   They, well this thing, they work fine for most people.

00:44:16   By far...

00:44:17   Do you remember all the ears they tested?

00:44:21   I have nightmares about all that.

00:44:24   This is what people do with their iPhone, right?

00:44:26   They get headphones in the box and they use them and that's basically, I would guess it's

00:44:30   something like 95% of iPhone users just use the headphones in the box.

00:44:35   It's not our listeners.

00:44:36   Our listeners is probably a much smaller percentage than that, but we're the nerds in the group

00:44:42   here.

00:44:43   Most people just use what's in the box.

00:44:45   I don't love them though.

00:44:47   But what I did love, what I did really, I was impressed, I mentioned it to you last

00:44:51   week is some of the details of how the AirPods work and that Apple did a very good job building

00:44:59   in the technology and being very careful with it.

00:45:01   And so I wanted to describe what they had to offer because not a lot of people have

00:45:05   had a chance to use the net.

00:45:06   And I can't talk about how they sound because it was a really loud room and there's just

00:45:10   no way for me to really tell.

00:45:12   But at least I got to experience some of the thoughtfulness that Apple put into this product.

00:45:16   Now the product's not for everyone.

00:45:17   In fact, it's going to be for a tiny fraction of Apple.

00:45:20   buyers themselves because like we said most people are just going to use the lightning

00:45:24   the lightning ear pods but I do think there's going to be a nice number of people who are

00:45:30   going to get these and I think be happy with them based on the fact that people seem to

00:45:34   like the ear pod design to begin with and that they have been very thoughtful with how

00:45:41   they've applied a lot of different technology and connected it to their software so that's

00:45:46   what my story was about.

00:45:49   So looking at these, I just have some kind of observations from the photos on what I've

00:45:53   taken a look at.

00:45:54   Like, one thing is that the case is really small looking.

00:45:58   The case that you keep the things in.

00:45:59   It's like floss.

00:46:00   It's like a little case for floss.

00:46:02   It was really hard to see that until I saw a lot of the hands-on photos.

00:46:05   Because, you know, in the images it's as big as a house.

00:46:08   They're just floating in a white room, you can tell.

00:46:09   It's just a giant box with giant earbuds in them.

00:46:13   And you know, it's clever, but it lasts for five hours, which is good, and then you can

00:46:16   get another 24 hours of charge.

00:46:18   And something I didn't know to I read your article is it takes just 15 minutes to get three hours of battery life

00:46:22   which is I

00:46:25   Was asking for that rather quick charge mechanism and I mean ideally what I wanted to see was something

00:46:30   I just plug straight into my phone rice and may have been just plug into the phone and it charges them

00:46:34   But this is a good thing right my battery dies and my case is already in my pocket

00:46:39   All I need to do is pocket in there for 15 minutes, and I've got another three hours of battery life. That's great

00:46:44   That's the type of thing that I'm looking for

00:46:46   But one of the things I find really weird in a way is like the way that you control the earpods

00:46:52   Yeah, so because they have no clicker right? There's no there's no cord to have a clicker on it. So there's no clicker and

00:46:58   I think that

00:47:01   I'm sure they tried every possible mechanism of controlling these things, but the fact that I can only

00:47:08   Like turn up volume and skip track and if I don't want to take them out my ears pause them

00:47:15   by talking to Siri is

00:47:17   No good. Yeah, it's that's their compromise right? I was wondering if they would have sort of

00:47:25   Double tap to do this triple tap to do this

00:47:29   Sort of like gestures or done spin around in the circle to shuffle double tap on your right ear pull your left ear

00:47:37   You know if you had like all of the Siri stuff in one and all of the playback controls in the other

00:47:43   It's not maybe the most elegant, but maybe I'm really talk about it like say you can do it with Siri

00:47:48   You know what? This reminds me of I'm a little shuffle. I know the buttonless

00:47:52   Shuffle. Yeah, that's they've just they just can't let that go right like here. We are back again

00:47:56   the problem is

00:47:59   For so many people you're commuting. Yeah, that's all we're gonna do. You want to turn your music up bleep. Hey, sorry

00:48:06   I'm sorry everybody

00:48:08   Please turn up

00:48:10   The music yeah, like that's really a tab turn up the music. It's I think that louder

00:48:16   Yeah, everyone's gonna be standing there talking to themselves now

00:48:19   Again, this isn't that one of those things right? I'm so used to the way that I've been doing it

00:48:24   Yeah, I use my little clicker turn it up and down, but there are other options

00:48:28   Yeah, one thing I always I always did especially when I was commuting I for a long time

00:48:32   I had because I had some really good headphones

00:48:35   but they didn't have the microphone and remote control on it and

00:48:38   And what I would do is I got really good at reaching in, I'm doing it now,

00:48:42   reaching in on the outside of my jeans, I can feel the iPhone in my pocket

00:48:48   and I can feel the volume buttons and I just squeeze in my pocket to make the volume go up and down.

00:48:53   And it totally worked. So you could do that, you could take your phone out.

00:48:57   If you've got an Apple Watch, maybe you use the Apple Watch to change the volume.

00:49:02   When I'm running, I do that. I will actually open the, well, in WatchOS 2,

00:49:06   you could flip up the little control center and now in watchOS 3 you have to have an app

00:49:11   that you open but which is a complaint I have about watchOS 3.

00:49:14   Is that a now playing app or is that just gone away?

00:49:16   Yeah well I think there's a music app but the problem is if you're playing a podcast

00:49:20   you can't use the music app for the podcast you could use the overcast app or something.

00:49:23   So they've taken away what I thought was my solution which was just using control center

00:49:27   and the watch.

00:49:28   Yeah I filed a radar saying that music app needs to actually be a now playing app and

00:49:34   they said it's a dupe so apparently people have complained.

00:49:36   You know what, you're a dupe.

00:49:37   Yeah, that's right.

00:49:38   Dupe this.

00:49:39   But anyway, you could do that, right?

00:49:41   And play, pause, skip, change volume on your Apple watch.

00:49:45   Or you could do it through Siri or you could do it by taking your phone out of your pocket

00:49:49   or even just squeezing your phone in.

00:49:51   I mean, I know that one way that you can pause these things, which is smart, is by taking

00:49:55   one of the earphones out of your ear.

00:49:57   But that isn't what I always want to do.

00:49:59   Right, you may actually want to pause because you're busy with something and you don't want

00:50:03   to miss what the podcast is talking about.

00:50:05   - Like I'm on the train and I wanna see,

00:50:08   like listen to the announcement that the guy's got

00:50:11   going over the Tanay, I just wanna pause it.

00:50:13   Like I don't have to take it out of my ear.

00:50:15   And I think it's cool, like that's cool technology.

00:50:18   I mean it makes a nice demo.

00:50:19   - And it's a, well I think it's an interesting gesture too.

00:50:21   The idea that if somebody's talking to you

00:50:22   or there's something you need to hear,

00:50:24   if you take one out, you can hear it better

00:50:26   and it pauses the music and then you pop it back in

00:50:28   and it starts again.

00:50:29   - I like that, I think it's really smart, right?

00:50:31   But there's there's there's more that I want here.

00:50:35   Right. But this is another exactly thing I'm going back to from earlier.

00:50:38   This is I just have to find a new way.

00:50:41   Like I'm ingrained in my ways of dealing with this stuff.

00:50:45   Now there are new ways.

00:50:46   Like I remember I was using some beats for a while and my cable broke

00:50:50   and the cable that I had had the playback controls on them. Right.

00:50:53   So I had to get a new cable and I got the cable sent

00:50:56   and they sent me on without the playback controls.

00:50:58   So for a few months I was using headphones with just the cable and I got used to it.

00:51:03   Sure.

00:51:04   Because you just do.

00:51:05   I mean, so.

00:51:06   You find a way to make it work.

00:51:07   Exactly.

00:51:08   You squeeze the phone when it's in your pocket.

00:51:09   Check it out on my phone to pause it.

00:51:10   Like, you know, that was just the things that I would do, how I would do with it.

00:51:14   And so it's the same kind of idea.

00:51:16   But I actually, I was, the more I've read and the more I thought about these AirPods,

00:51:20   I want to get a pair to play with them because I think they could be really cool.

00:51:25   and I love this one little thing that you mentioned,

00:51:27   which is like the Apple magic.

00:51:29   If you've got audio playing on an iPhone

00:51:31   and then you pop in an AirPod into one ear,

00:51:33   the iPhone automatically switches the audio input

00:51:36   to that AirPod in mono.

00:51:38   - Yeah.

00:51:39   - Put an AirPod in the other ear

00:51:41   and now you're hearing everything in stereo.

00:51:42   - Yeah.

00:51:43   - That's awesome.

00:51:44   - And when you take them both out,

00:51:46   it starts, basically the audio output goes back to the phone

00:51:51   so you don't have to do what most Bluetooth headphones,

00:51:53   you have to turn them off.

00:51:54   You just take them out and it knows you're not listening to them anymore clarification on that. Yeah, so I take them both out

00:51:59   Does the music automatically start playing? I don't think so

00:52:02   I think it I think it you you're back with a play button

00:52:05   But I press play it plays it out of the phone speakers. Yeah, so this is the thing

00:52:09   I want to try these because they have some things that aren't so great like some things that I consider a step back like

00:52:15   Poor access to playback controls. Yeah, but they have some things that are significant step forwards

00:52:21   which is like the understanding of the context

00:52:24   of where and how I'm listening to something.

00:52:27   Like very frequently, when I'm getting ready

00:52:29   to leave the house, I will start playing a podcast

00:52:32   on a speaker and I will then plug my earphones in

00:52:36   and keep listening as I leave.

00:52:38   But wouldn't it be great if all I did

00:52:40   was just put my earphones in and I don't have to,

00:52:42   like it's just a more fluid type of thing, right?

00:52:45   Where I'm not actually plugging anything in,

00:52:47   all I'm doing is putting them in my ears.

00:52:49   That is the kind of like devices working together

00:52:53   that Apple does so well.

00:52:55   So I'm interested to see where they go.

00:52:56   Personally, AirPods 2, I think will have

00:52:59   a different mechanism for playback controls.

00:53:01   - Yeah, I wonder-- - I think they will do it.

00:53:03   - I actually wonder, and we had a listener, Dale,

00:53:05   wrote in and asked if they're capable of a software update

00:53:08   for adding features later.

00:53:09   I don't know, I imagine they probably have some firmware

00:53:12   that could get updated, although I suspect

00:53:14   that most of the support changes,

00:53:16   Like could Apple TV have that same sort of iCloud sync pairing thing that you have with

00:53:22   Max and I think it's quite possible that it might down the road.

00:53:27   But this is an example where I do wonder if maybe the AirPods could even be updated for

00:53:34   things like this.

00:53:35   Like we added a triple tap gesture because people really wanted a triple tap to mean

00:53:38   whatever.

00:53:39   Because it's an accelerometer in there or a couple accelerometers.

00:53:43   They could add gestures.

00:53:45   They could, you know, the gestures are never going to be what we think of as, you know,

00:53:48   it's not going to be swiping or anything, but they can tell when you're tapping on them

00:53:51   and when you take them in and out of your ears.

00:53:53   So there may be some ways for them to learn or they'll spend a year or two with this hardware

00:53:59   and then they'll see how their customers are using it and what the complaints are and make

00:54:03   changes that way too, which may happen.

00:54:05   Because you're right, the problem is where do you put that?

00:54:09   I think the idea of having it be just doing a little tap is super smart.

00:54:15   Because you don't have a thing dangling down that you can click on, so you've got to find

00:54:19   other ways to do it, but right now the fact that there's only one gesture, and it's the

00:54:24   double tap, which will answer your phone if you get a phone call, and it will kick off

00:54:27   Siri if you don't.

00:54:29   And that's the only one right now.

00:54:30   It feels like to me that the hardware isn't capable of anything more.

00:54:34   It may be.

00:54:35   It may be.

00:54:36   Because it's a weird choice to make, I think.

00:54:38   I don't know, I think the problem is that you could triple tap doesn't necessarily mean like,

00:54:44   it's not necessarily a bad idea, but you're not going to do a quadruple tap,

00:54:48   so what do you make the triple tap mean? Is that forward? Is that back?

00:54:53   Maybe taps don't work, maybe they only have a couple of things, like maybe volume up and down,

00:54:58   just find a way to do with it, but things like playing and skipping,

00:55:03   like we're used to clicking with these things, there are things they could do,

00:55:07   It just seems really strange to me to ask Siri to do this stuff.

00:55:11   Yeah, I mean the alternative is something like putting buttons on them.

00:55:14   Yeah.

00:55:16   And that's not great, but...

00:55:18   They're too small for it.

00:55:20   It would be uncomfortable.

00:55:20   So just say, "I want to try them. I'm gonna get them."

00:55:23   They're coming in October, right?

00:55:25   Like, another issue with production.

00:55:27   They couldn't get these things made in time, I assume.

00:55:29   Too busy making iPhones.

00:55:30   Maybe some FCC filings they didn't want to file until, you know, so they didn't get leaked.

00:55:34   I don't know but they're coming later. I'm looking forward to trying them out. Not cheap

00:55:39   Talk about looking forward this week. It's coming week

00:55:43   IOS 10 is gonna be released and I want to just touch on very quickly a few things that we're excited about now. I

00:55:49   Primarily am excited to have iOS 10 on my phone. I have not put iOS 10 any of the betas on my iPhone

00:55:56   I have iOS 10 running on my iPads, but not on my phone a

00:55:59   Couple of reasons first bunch of travel

00:56:01   I just wanted to make sure I was gonna have

00:56:03   the most stable phone that I could have

00:56:04   during the travel that I've been doing this summer.

00:56:06   And also, I kinda wanted to experience it

00:56:11   when it was done with all of the apps.

00:56:14   Because like on my iPad, there are a bunch of apps

00:56:16   that just do weird things.

00:56:17   Like the widgets look weird, right?

00:56:19   Because they're not formatted in the right way.

00:56:21   So I wanted to see what all that was gonna look like

00:56:23   on the iPhone, you know, the primary device for this stuff.

00:56:26   So I was been waiting to see a little bit.

00:56:28   But I'm looking forward to Sticker Pack being released.

00:56:31   I've played with a couple and the ones that I've played with are awesome.

00:56:34   Uh, people that I know that are on betas have been sending me stickers and they

00:56:37   look fantastic. I can't wait to try out more of this stuff. Uh,

00:56:41   the interactive notifications and all the 3d touch stuff.

00:56:44   I've not tried any of that, right? Because I'm on an iPad.

00:56:47   So I'm looking forward to seeing what these things are like. And I've, I, again,

00:56:50   I've played with a couple of betas of iMessage apps and there is some really,

00:56:54   really interesting stuff.

00:56:56   The iMessage apps are something that I didn't think I'd be particularly

00:57:00   interested in but what it really it really changes the way that I think about sharing stuff with messages so before

00:57:07   messages was just a

00:57:10   Sort of a dumping ground for the share sheet, so I'm in an app

00:57:13   I'm in tweet botters far your evercast I want to send you something

00:57:16   I go to the share sheet select messages select your name and send it we're

00:57:20   with the apps it feels like I can be within

00:57:26   messages and we can be having a conversation and instead of

00:57:28   Going to an app and pushing content into messages. I can pull it in from these various sources into our conversation and

00:57:36   What that has led to is already in the beta just with friends on the beta

00:57:40   sharing more

00:57:43   Stuff and messages than I would have so the example. I think I told somebody earlier in person was

00:57:48   Gifts as I use an app called gift wrapped keeps like a Dropbox library of gifts on my phone

00:57:53   I used to have to go to the app, find the GIF of whatever I wanted to send to Myke,

00:57:58   and then share it out to you.

00:58:01   Well, if that app had an iMessage app, I could pull it in into our conversation.

00:58:07   That makes sharing faster, and it makes me more likely to add things to our messages,

00:58:14   to enrich them.

00:58:15   So that was a surprise to me.

00:58:16   I kind of rolled my eyes at a lot of the messages stuff.

00:58:18   Many people did.

00:58:19   There's still a lot of stuff in there that I don't care for, but the apps, I think, are

00:58:23   going to be a really interesting place.

00:58:26   You know, unlike iOS 9, you know, with the iPad, multitasking and apps

00:58:31   works basically the same in all of them, but iOS 10, there's so many things that

00:58:36   developers can implement in different ways.

00:58:39   So a developer could do stickers or they could do a fuller iMessage app, or they

00:58:43   could do new fancy things with notifications.

00:58:47   And so I'm excited to see what developers do to improve their apps.

00:58:52   and the space that they work in

00:58:55   through these different tools.

00:58:56   And I think we're gonna see a wide variety of stuff.

00:58:58   And I think that'll be exciting.

00:59:00   - What about you, Jason?

00:59:02   - Well, I have been living with it for a while now.

00:59:04   So I have to keep on searching back through my mind

00:59:08   of like, well, what's new?

00:59:10   Like as somebody who uses the iPad to do writing,

00:59:12   I'm still just the only iPad feature really,

00:59:15   but I love it is that I can turn off auto-correct

00:59:18   for all my hardware keyboards.

00:59:20   so it stops trying to rewrite all my words.

00:59:24   - Like I'm also excited for watchOS 3,

00:59:26   like I haven't tried that at all either.

00:59:28   - And it's great, yeah, I'm very happy with that.

00:59:31   I'm looking forward to having the apps

00:59:33   that are built to the watchOS 3 SDK

00:59:35   because those are the ones that are gonna be able

00:59:36   to stay in the foreground if they're fitness apps

00:59:39   and they're going to be much more useful

00:59:43   than the existing ones, so I'm looking forward to that.

00:59:45   The revamped notification center

00:59:47   has a lot of things going for it.

00:59:49   So, that's nice, the messages stuff is really good.

00:59:54   There's a lot of nice stuff in iOS 10, it's just funny because I've been living with it

00:59:57   over the summer, so now for me it's normal, that's what the iPhone is, but everybody else

01:00:02   gets to use it.

01:00:03   Yeah, I'm pretty happy with my decision to not upgrade my phone.

01:00:06   Because I've played around with some iOS 10 stuff, but now I'll get to experience it.

01:00:11   Yes.

01:00:12   As it should be.

01:00:13   Yeah.

01:00:14   I think that's the way to do it.

01:00:15   I think it was the right move for me.

01:00:16   I'd say it's a pretty gentle update though, and I feel this way about Sierra too.

01:00:20   I agree with that, but I think it's because it's calm before the storm.

01:00:24   A lot of the stuff that is in there,

01:00:27   we can't really play around with too much because the apps aren't out.

01:00:31   It's true. Something like the Messages apps, it's going to be a big difference.

01:00:34   Siri stuff, maps, things,

01:00:37   all the little things that Apple have added for developers,

01:00:40   that's all going to start coming on Tuesday. Exactly.

01:00:43   I like those kind of updates personally.

01:00:45   When they've given tools to developers to go out and make new and exciting things.

01:00:51   I love the line, it's an off-use phrase, but I really like it.

01:00:55   It's like, imagine the things developers could do with this.

01:00:58   We can't even imagine the types of things that we might see.

01:01:01   And honestly, I've been that way with some of the stuff that I've seen

01:01:05   with the iMessage apps that I've played with and see if I've ever played with.

01:01:08   So I'm really excited for it.

01:01:09   Just sent a bunch of stuff to Steven like I sent some stickers and I and some some animated gifs and some stuff from apps

01:01:16   I'm gonna make was her

01:01:18   Jeff's I don't know what you talk about. Oh, yeah, it's these animations. They're like JPEGs except it's pronounced Jeff

01:01:23   Oh, this is the JPEG version. It's like a gif but like a JPEG, but it doesn't know which is why it's soft

01:01:27   It's not like I don't know what a gif is that kind of giraffe?

01:01:30   Gir, giraffe send your feedback to at Casey lists. Yes, see as you I'll ISS

01:01:38   That's Casey-less.

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01:03:59   Emryley FM

01:04:02   It's time for some ask upgrade gentlemen

01:04:05   That was some Portland style lasers right there

01:04:09   Jason what do you think?

01:04:12   The galaxy note fiasco might do for iPhone sales people that don't know the galaxy note 7 has had

01:04:20   Unfortunate time right now

01:04:24   with setting fire. Yeah some battery problems. Apple had that with laptops

01:04:31   you know 15 years ago. PowerBook 5300. Yeah so this is what I consider to be

01:04:37   kind of a little bit upsetting about this. Sad. I feel really bad for Samsung

01:04:42   because it could happen to anyone. Like on Friday the phones that we pick up the

01:04:47   batteries might go wrong and they might start catching fire. Like this can just

01:04:50   happen. Right? Like it's not necessarily that they're doing something bad but they just

01:04:55   may have a batch of bad batteries and they're catching fire. This is like battery technology

01:04:59   is crazy, it's difficult and it's flammable materials. So this stuff could happen to anyone.

01:05:05   I feel kind of bad for them that they're in this situation right now. All the air agencies

01:05:09   like the FAA and I think it's the EASA are saying please don't turn these phones on or

01:05:15   charge them when you're on airplanes. Like it's and now they're having to recall them

01:05:19   it's a real unfortunate thing. So one, what do you think about that? Two, do you think

01:05:22   it's going to have an effect on iPhone sales?

01:05:26   It might have a minor effect. I feel like most people are going to get a new phone,

01:05:29   they're going to get a loaner and then they're going to get a new phone from Samsung.

01:05:32   They're not going to like, say like, no, now I'm going to go buy an iPhone and be like

01:05:35   $600 in the hole.

01:05:37   It really seems unlikely that that would, I mean I'm sure you're going to get your money

01:05:40   back if you don't want to keep your exploding Galaxy Note. You can probably find a way to

01:05:44   just demand a refund, but it seems unlikely. I mean the people who bought the Galaxy Note

01:05:48   have reasons to buy a giant Android phone, that's what they want, and they made a choice.

01:05:53   It seems unlikely that most of them are going to want to suddenly go to a, you know, maybe

01:05:57   similarly giant Apple phone, because, yeah, they've made a choice already. So, yeah, I

01:06:04   feel bad, I mean, I don't feel too bad. It's Samsung. They're not my favorite.

01:06:08   >> Come on.

01:06:09   >> But it could happen to anyone, you're absolutely right.

01:06:12   >> And it's just a shame. I think, I genuinely think it's a shame, because it looks like

01:06:16   great phone and they're in a really unfortunate situation. Yeah and it's a

01:06:22   case where one of their suppliers gave them a bad product and the fact is

01:06:24   that's happened before Apple had the bad power adapters in the US that they have

01:06:29   that's why we all have little green dots on our power adapters now. Yep. The little

01:06:33   tiny square adapters that came with iPhones. They've had you know recalls and

01:06:37   well not recalls but repair extension programs on Macs over the years right

01:06:40   now there's one for MacBook Pros with the GPU basically just... Do you remember when they

01:06:43   I did it on the iPod like not too long ago.

01:06:46   It was like the iPod Nano.

01:06:47   Yeah, the first Nintendo had a problem.

01:06:49   So I mean it happens, you know, I think the tribalism of poking fun of it is pretty boring,

01:06:54   but…

01:06:55   This is not proof of the fact that Samsung sucks and Apple is great, right?

01:06:59   No, that's ridiculous.

01:07:00   This is a company who had a manufacturing flaw in their product and the supply chains

01:07:06   are complicated and in this case they're getting two different batteries from two different

01:07:09   manufacturers and one of them, this is why it's not a problem in Asia,

01:07:13   apparently is that Samsung's using Samsung's batteries in Asia from another

01:07:17   part of Samsung and those are fine.

01:07:18   And this other one that is being used to supply the third

01:07:21   parties in the U S is, is some other company. And those have the problem.

01:07:25   It's, you know, Honda is going through this right now with airbags in the U S

01:07:28   where the airbags for certain, um, early two thousands models of Honda cars are

01:07:33   potentially explosive, like dangerously explosive.

01:07:36   They may just explode while you're driving your car.

01:07:39   That sounds like a good feature.

01:07:40   Yeah, it's a safety feature.

01:07:42   It's a surprise.

01:07:43   That has turned horribly wrong.

01:07:44   And it's just, you know, they had a third party

01:07:46   and the third party it turned out was the story I read.

01:07:50   I didn't report this myself,

01:07:52   but they were like cutting corners

01:07:54   and there were issues with them.

01:07:55   And as a result, they have to do this massive recall

01:07:58   of those products too.

01:07:59   So it's terrible when something happens

01:08:01   because this is, yeah, it's ugly.

01:08:04   And I feel bad, the people I really feel bad for

01:08:06   are the people who are very excited

01:08:07   they got the brand new Samsung Galaxy Note and now they've got to live with the prospect

01:08:11   of like they got to go back, talk about going back to a store where you bought something,

01:08:14   they've got to go back with this thing that they're not supposed to use, they've probably

01:08:18   migrated all their data to it, they might, yeah, they're supposedly getting like loaner

01:08:22   phones that you then have to restore and then you have to wait and then you'll get another

01:08:25   one and it's really lousy to be one of their customers so I hope they take, I hope they

01:08:30   take other, they take care of the people basically.

01:08:35   But they take care of the customers and make them feel better and maybe give them some

01:08:39   free stuff because I feel really bad for them that they invested their money in a premium

01:08:44   product.

01:08:45   And they had this terrible experience.

01:08:49   Myke wants to know, "Any mention of a headphone adapter that goes the other way, plugging

01:08:53   lightning headphones into a 3.5mm jack?

01:08:56   I haven't seen one."

01:08:58   No.

01:08:59   I think because of the DAC situation I'm not even sure it would be possible.

01:09:03   Because I assume they're looking for a digital audio stream over lightning, which you would

01:09:11   need... yeah.

01:09:13   It seems unlikely, but that is a question that if such a thing doesn't exist, what it

01:09:18   means is that if you're the kind of person who likes to take your iPhone headphones and

01:09:22   plug them into your laptop, you can't.

01:09:24   What if you buy one of those really expensive lightning headphones, like the really nice

01:09:29   stuff, because you want to get the best sound when you're on your iOS devices, and then

01:09:33   and you wanna use them on your Mac, right?

01:09:35   And you can't do it.

01:09:36   I mean, I think that's the reason this,

01:09:37   I don't think Myke's wondering this question

01:09:39   because of these AirPods.

01:09:40   - A lot of the really expensive lightning headphones

01:09:43   have detachable cords.

01:09:46   - Right. - You can swap them out.

01:09:47   - Right. - I mean,

01:09:48   and it leads to the question of,

01:09:49   are we gonna see lightning ports on the side of new Macs

01:09:51   if they ever show up?

01:09:52   And that I really go back and forth on.

01:09:55   I think it could be confusing

01:09:57   because lightning is data in on iPhones and iPads

01:10:00   and you're using it just for audio out

01:10:02   or some other weird stuff on the Mac, but--

01:10:04   - And it's so similar to USB-C,

01:10:06   which we all think is coming to the Mac.

01:10:08   - You're gonna be jamming things in the wrong port.

01:10:11   It's all very messy, but I--

01:10:12   - This is Michael's question.

01:10:14   He wanted to know whether we think

01:10:15   that their new MacBooks and new MacBook Pros

01:10:18   will have headphone jacks on them.

01:10:19   - I think it has to be--

01:10:22   - I think they're gonna take away from the MacBook,

01:10:24   eventually, because the MacBook's whole premise is wireless.

01:10:28   - Well, and wouldn't you rather have a second USB-C port?

01:10:32   - I don't know if they would make that trade off.

01:10:34   They just cover it up with aluminum.

01:10:35   - No, I just think on the MacBook,

01:10:37   they would just literally take the headphone jack on,

01:10:39   and they'll put a lightning port on there.

01:10:40   They're just gonna take the headphone jack on.

01:10:41   - I think they would be consistent across the line.

01:10:43   I don't see them doing that on the MacBook,

01:10:45   and then leaving it anywhere else.

01:10:47   But-- - Why?

01:10:50   - Because it's--

01:10:51   - But the line is inconsistent,

01:10:53   because there's USB-C on one device,

01:10:56   and not on another device. - For now.

01:10:57   I mean I think we're going to see USB-C on these new Macs, but I think too...

01:10:59   You know what I said before, eventually the headphone jack will go away from everything.

01:11:03   Well I think too, I think the other side of this is that while two of the three of us

01:11:08   sitting at this table use iPads for audio work, the Mac is much more sort of in that

01:11:15   world.

01:11:16   I think the MacBook Pro is staying.

01:11:17   You've got a Pro system, you've got to have those extra AV things for your video editors

01:11:23   and audio editors and things like that.

01:11:24   I don't see them ripping it out of the MacBook and leaving it in other places though.

01:11:26   So I think that they will, I think I definitely keep it on the MacBook Pro.

01:11:30   I think it's less likely for the MacBook, but I agree with what you're saying.

01:11:33   It would be weird, but it could do it.

01:11:35   But anyway, I think maybe Michael's question is centered more around the MacBook Pros.

01:11:39   Uh, and I think that pro audio production is still a good use case for the MacBook Pro

01:11:46   existing and I think I'll take away the headphone jack from there for now.

01:11:49   I also hope they won't.

01:11:50   Also the iPhone is the one product that absolutely has space issues on the inside, right?

01:11:56   I mean the MacBook does too actually, but even then the MacBook has so much space compared to an iPhone, right?

01:12:01   Yeah

01:12:01   I don't think that the the space taken by the headphone jack is so if they get on stage and rev the the

01:12:07   27-inch iMac and they say without the headphone jack, we'd have more space to do things. I'm just gonna quit like yeah, we're done

01:12:13   We're all done

01:12:15   Eric wanted to know

01:12:17   He says he's not gonna be getting this new iPhone

01:12:20   But wondering in the future if Apple will still include the headphone adapter in the box

01:12:24   I think this is a one-time deal Eric, but the adapters are only nine dollars, so they're not too bad

01:12:31   Yeah, I totally agree. I think it's so I think it's a one time to ease the transition

01:12:34   Think it's just to shut up the press

01:12:38   Like that I like that it's nine bucks, you know

01:12:41   The only other thing close to is like the magsafe two to one adapter or whatever

01:12:46   Nine bucks is the right call. I think if this thing was

01:12:50   19 like it would be not great $9 feels feels nice at $9

01:12:55   You could buy like four of them and attach them to all existing headphones

01:12:58   Yeah, right. You just lead them on there and you're all good

01:13:01   You could dig up right Rajeev wants to know will the Apple watch eventually support night shift

01:13:06   This was a shocking and admission to me with true tone on the iPhone. I think both of those things

01:13:10   I think what should you not should have my shift especially the new one?

01:13:16   Even brighter. He's you know this yeah, he's like opening the Ark of the Covenant in the end Jones

01:13:20   It's now two times brighter, which is awesome. So my eyes will melt

01:13:23   And no true tone on the iPhone is also very very surprising to me

01:13:27   I'm surprised at that too because it's not like the iPhone doesn't have a light sensor and all the true tone is

01:13:32   You know, it's a multi

01:13:34   Multi sensor light sensor where it's it's not just sensing light. It's sensing the color temperature of the light

01:13:41   so it's doing an RGB sensor instead of a

01:13:44   Regular sensor Craig Hockenberry had a tweet. Maybe we can dig it up

01:13:47   He'd found where that sensor is on the the nine point seven inch iPad Pro and apparently the the surface area

01:13:54   Uses it's pretty large. Ah

01:13:56   so he had said that you know, this may be a

01:14:00   another space constraint issue right because you got it you've got a

01:14:05   be

01:14:07   You've got a sample the RGB to do that

01:14:10   Also, just thinking ahead, because we have done that from time to time in terms of conspiracy

01:14:15   theories and all of that, if an iPhone 8 next year is sort of wall-to-wall screen and the

01:14:23   home button goes away entirely and all of that, one of the challenges is going to be

01:14:29   having space for sensors like the front-facing camera, the selfie camera, and the light sensor,

01:14:37   they're gonna want to maximize the screen space there.

01:14:40   So I wonder too, if that's part of it is,

01:14:44   well, we could probably get it to fit this year,

01:14:46   but our plans for next year,

01:14:48   it's, I'm not sure we could get it to fit.

01:14:50   So maybe we should just leave it alone.

01:14:54   But I am surprised because that seemed like a feature

01:14:56   that was gonna be everywhere and it's not.

01:14:58   - I feel like there's a lot of that conversation right now

01:15:00   talking about, well, next year,

01:15:01   they're gonna do this and that.

01:15:02   And so far my expectations for next year's iPhone

01:15:06   is is ridiculous. The iPhone 7 has not even shipped yet and and people have been talking

01:15:13   about iPhone 8 a lot. So I expect whatever iPhone 10th anniversary edition special special

01:15:19   edition. I expect Apple to... iPhone 10. I think we will have some expectation setting

01:15:26   for us. Yeah we'll see we'll see but Craig finding that that's good because that that

01:15:33   shows that would make sense right there's really limited space and you know

01:15:37   I don't know what a RGB light sensor takes up in terms of space yeah but back

01:15:41   to the question I agree night shift on the Apple watch would be would be great

01:15:45   you know my only thought is that the watch the screen technology can't

01:15:51   support that sort of color shifting as well or maybe as smoothly as they wanted

01:15:54   that's where I kind of out of my depth knowing about how the screen actually

01:15:57   works or maybe how the graphics processor works because what you have to

01:16:01   do is shift all of the color you have to detect what all the colors are supposed

01:16:04   to be painted on the screen and shift them in real time. So maybe the

01:16:08   maybe the GPU maybe something like the the Series 2 might be capable of doing

01:16:14   that down the road in terms of software and maybe the Series 1 or Zero can't.

01:16:19   Yeah so I guess we'll see I would like to see it especially on the watch I mean

01:16:23   Lucas wants to know if the iPhone 7's water resistance means that

01:16:28   that you could take underwater photos and videos.

01:16:30   In theory, yes.

01:16:34   - In theory.

01:16:35   - Just don't have it under for too long?

01:16:38   - For too long and don't go too deep.

01:16:40   The challenge is going to be

01:16:41   that your touchscreen won't work.

01:16:43   - The volume up button.

01:16:44   - But you can press the volume up button to do the shutter.

01:16:48   So yes, it's quite possible.

01:16:52   The problem is Apple still saying,

01:16:53   watch out for water damage.

01:16:54   I think the idea here is you're supposed to,

01:16:58   not use this except when you accidentally put it in the water

01:17:02   uh... but if it's truly as water-resistant as the first apple watch

01:17:07   we know that speaking of craig hockenberry again

01:17:10   uh... that he takes it in the surf

01:17:12   like every day and it's basically apple is saying you can spill stuff on it or

01:17:16   splash stuff on it

01:17:18   so if you if it does work which it probably will but your iPhone breaks

01:17:22   you're on your own

01:17:23   because they're not saying this is the... they still say the water

01:17:27   damage is not covered under the warranty.

01:17:29   But like you know I think at least in my brain I keep getting the Apple Watch's water resistance

01:17:34   and the iPhone's water resistance mixed up.

01:17:36   The new iPhone's water resistance is the old Apple Watch's water resistance which is three

01:17:41   feet for 30 minutes and the new Apple Watch is you know yeah do whatever and this is that's

01:17:49   the point at which Apple says sure swim with it.

01:17:51   So even though it was basically water resistant enough for you to take a shower with it or

01:17:56   swim with it before, Apple didn't talk about it.

01:17:58   And that's where the iPhone is now.

01:18:00   So what I would say is, you could do it and you might even succeed doing it, taking underwater

01:18:05   photography with it.

01:18:07   That said, you're sort of taking the product into your own hands at that point.

01:18:11   It will probably work, but when I took a shower with the Apple Watch on day one, people were

01:18:17   like, "Oh wow, I can't believe you risked the Apple Watch there."

01:18:20   And it was like, "Yeah, well, I did."

01:18:22   - The thing I got very excited about the prospect of

01:18:24   is having the iPhone in the shower with me,

01:18:27   like on a shelf.

01:18:28   - Yeah.

01:18:28   - When I'm listening to podcasts.

01:18:30   - Yeah, you may be able to do that.

01:18:32   - Well, I'm gonna do it.

01:18:32   - Okay.

01:18:33   - I'm very excited about it.

01:18:34   I'm not gonna hold it, right?

01:18:35   - Right.

01:18:36   - But I could have it like on a shelf.

01:18:37   - On a shelf and if it splashes a little bit, it's okay.

01:18:40   - Doesn't matter, any steam, doesn't matter.

01:18:42   - Doesn't matter.

01:18:43   - I'm excited about that.

01:18:44   - Some shaving cream.

01:18:45   - Yeah, it's fine, it's all good.

01:18:47   Ryan wants to know, "Do you think Apple

01:18:48   "would ever license the W1 chip down the road

01:18:51   for third party headphone makers to make a better Bluetooth experience. So this W1 chip

01:18:56   is what is the special source I think. Is everybody keeps referring to it. Stephen what

01:19:01   do you think? I don't see them doing this. They have a headphone company. Yeah they own

01:19:06   Beats and there were what three Beats products that are going to be supporting this. Yeah.

01:19:10   I think Apple is going to keep it as a competitive advantage. Which they're well within their

01:19:15   rights to do. Of course. This is their technology why would they give it to other people? Right

01:19:19   - It's not, that was kind of part of the debate

01:19:22   about Bluetooth being an open standard

01:19:24   and this not being that.

01:19:26   And so my argument was, you know,

01:19:28   there's a difference there, there's a gradient of difference

01:19:31   and I don't see this showing up in other brands

01:19:35   that I can walk into a Best Buy and purchase.

01:19:37   - These things are Bluetooth headphones

01:19:39   and they work over Bluetooth, which is great,

01:19:41   but if you have an Apple device, they work even better.

01:19:44   Synergy, everybody.

01:19:45   I think there's a chance that this could be part of a made for iPhone kind of program.

01:19:56   A chance, but it seems unlikely.

01:19:59   It seems to me like this is Apple proprietary, they did the work, they're going to reap the

01:20:04   benefits and you know, you said it, Apple owns a headphone company.

01:20:09   Why would it not?

01:20:11   And here we see it.

01:20:12   These aren't just the first time AirPods.

01:20:15   AirPods technology is in those three lines of Beats headphones so why share?

01:20:20   I'm not very clear on what they get though, those Beats headphones. I think they get the instant pairing.

01:20:24   And the better audio quality they say. Yeah because it's doing an AAC

01:20:29   whatever stream it's doing is a better audio quality I think. So and

01:20:34   maybe battery life as well is better. Yeah I don't know. Because it's more efficient. And I don't know if they're using the sensors and things too or not.

01:20:42   - I think the sensors are not necessarily the W1 chip.

01:20:45   - No, they're--

01:20:46   - They're ear pods.

01:20:47   - So that's, it may just be that this is the thing

01:20:49   that drives all of their, this is their custom Bluetooth--

01:20:52   - It's the brains.

01:20:53   - Thing that does the special pairing and all of that.

01:20:57   - And I think if they're gonna do it,

01:20:58   it could, that could have been,

01:20:59   that would have fit into the pitch of,

01:21:02   we are in a wireless world and we've made this great thing

01:21:04   and we're gonna have it in MFI

01:21:06   so you can get any headphones you want.

01:21:08   - And nope.

01:21:09   - And that would have strengthened the argument

01:21:10   that we're now in a wireless world.

01:21:12   They didn't say it at launch,

01:21:13   I don't think it's gonna happen.

01:21:15   - No, because it's not up to Apple

01:21:18   to make everybody else's technology better.

01:21:20   That's not what a company does, right?

01:21:24   You're competing.

01:21:26   They're competing with Bose.

01:21:27   - Yeah, absolutely.

01:21:28   - Right, so why would they give their chips away to Bose?

01:21:31   That they're taking 10 years of development away from Bose.

01:21:34   Like, you're just a leapfrog.

01:21:35   They're not gonna do that.

01:21:36   - The last kind of thing on AirPods that comes to mind,

01:21:38   Tim Cook said a couple of years ago,

01:21:40   maybe all things DE or some interview,

01:21:43   that Apple is really looking at sensor technology.

01:21:46   These AirPods have so much stuff,

01:21:47   they know when they're in your ear,

01:21:48   they know when you're touching them.

01:21:51   I think that is potentially something he had in mind

01:21:54   in saying that because the watch does have some sensors,

01:21:57   but it's not really all that complicated.

01:22:00   - The watch sensors do basic things.

01:22:03   - And very specific things, where the AirPods seem like

01:22:06   they have an intelligence about them.

01:22:07   And Myke, to your point, maybe it doesn't look

01:22:09   far enough but they seem to be really aware of their surroundings in a way

01:22:13   that we haven't really seen from Apple hardware before. No I think it's that's

01:22:16   what excites me about the earplugs this idea of like put one in get them on oh

01:22:21   like put them both in take them out and like everything just reacts to it right

01:22:25   and like oh how to speak their language you know how to use it their gestures

01:22:29   then it becomes kind of second nature so wait and see we are in the wait and see

01:22:32   period we are but not for long I'm sure next Monday we'll see how the setup

01:22:38   process goes, it's that time of year again. How angry will Myke be when he tries to sell

01:22:43   his iPhone?

01:22:43   We really went to town last year on this.

01:22:46   It was a disaster, so I'm excited to see how iOS 10 fares the setup. I mean, I know we're

01:22:51   going to get another screen where I have to customize my home button strength.

01:22:55   Yeah, that'll be exciting.

01:22:57   But I'm interested to see.

01:22:58   That'll be the new question, is how strong is your home button? We'll all be asking next

01:23:03   week.

01:23:03   I will go weakest, to the weakest possible touch, because I have a 3D touch as well,

01:23:07   I worry about RSI stuff and I've had concerns and I was having concerns at the exact time that I haven't came out last year

01:23:14   So I've always set mine to be the weakest possible and I haven't had any problems of it by no problem

01:23:18   I know people that have

01:23:20   So I think you know cuz you're pressing more and doing some weird stuff. Yeah smooshing your finger against a flat surface

01:23:26   One last thing on this, okay, but it's home button I forgot to mention last week

01:23:32   Why did they make it look like a home button if it doesn't click?

01:23:34   Why did it need to be like that?

01:23:36   Gives you a target?

01:23:37   Yeah, but it could have just been a flat surface with the fingerprint sensor on it.

01:23:41   My only thought is the Touch ID, the stainless steel ring activates Touch ID and that needs

01:23:47   to be elevated enough where you can touch it and read on both sides.

01:23:52   So my thought is it's a depth issue and let's put the hat on for next year if this new magic

01:23:57   unicorn iPhone is great and the home button goes away, why spend a bunch of R&D time and

01:24:02   engineering time we can basically reuse the same

01:24:06   components and replace the underside.

01:24:10   My theory for this next phone, the reason we're talking about this phone is because the

01:24:14   current one looks exactly the same

01:24:15   and there's been rumors like I think John Gruber started them about like

01:24:19   don't worry the next one's gonna be all glass and it's gonna be the most amazing thing

01:24:22   I've seen. I think they're gonna put the fingerprint sensor on the back

01:24:26   because where would you put the fingerprint sensor on an all glass front?

01:24:28   It's possible. I mean, we see that I've got that in my Nexus 5X.

01:24:32   I love it on the back.

01:24:33   Same.

01:24:33   And it's not bad. The only problem with it is you can't put it in the case.

01:24:37   Or if you do, they've got to do a fingerprint cutout.

01:24:38   The cases have holes in them.

01:24:39   Yeah.

01:24:40   Which is whatever.

01:24:41   Like, I-

01:24:41   Apple workshopped that a few years ago with the 5C.

01:24:44   I already have a hole for my camera.

01:24:46   Yeah.

01:24:47   So does that.

01:24:47   So you'd have a thumb or a finger scanner cutout.

01:24:51   But it does, you hold it for those who haven't done it.

01:24:54   The idea of a fingerprint scanner on the back of the phone sounds kind of ridiculous.

01:24:57   But you know what you pick up the phone and your hand is holding the phone and your for me

01:25:02   It's my index finger is resting right on that scanner on the back and the phone opens

01:25:07   And I'm looking at my phone and I've seen some really cool stuff that some make some

01:25:10   Android makers are doing like I can't remember who it is

01:25:14   It's doing it but you can swipe on the fingerprint sensor and it will bring down your notification shade

01:25:19   How cool is that? Yeah, so you got your hand on the back you just swipe it down and the notifications pop up

01:25:23   So it could be also, you know, Apple's happy to make the lives of case

01:25:28   makers more difficult, especially after.

01:25:31   That was the other thing, by the way, you know,

01:25:33   as we were talking last week about the Twitter stuff popping out

01:25:35   just as the event started, Amazon had a page go up with all of the iPhone 7 cases.

01:25:40   So it was it was a yeah.

01:25:43   All right. Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of Upgrade.

01:25:45   If you want to find our show notes, go to relay.fm/upgrade/106.

01:25:50   Stephen Hackett, thank you for joining us. Yes.

01:25:53   You can find Stephen online at 512pixels.net and he is @ismh on Twitter.

01:25:58   Jason is at sixcolors.com and he is @jsnell, J S N E double L.

01:26:04   I am @imike, I M Y K E.

01:26:07   Thanks again to our lovely sponsors of this week's episode.

01:26:11   There's Hover, Mac, Weldon and Ring.

01:26:14   We'll be back next week with new iPhones in hand.

01:26:17   Until then, I hope that you get the ones that you're looking for.

01:26:20   Say goodbye, gentlemen.

01:26:22   Goodbye gentlemen.

01:26:23   Adios.

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