101: It Works Great in California


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00:00:08   Relay FM Music ]

00:00:09   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode number 101. Today's show is brought to you by Hover,

00:00:16   Mack Weldon, and Eero. My name is Myke Hurley. I'm joined by Jason Snell.

00:00:21   It's a binary episode. One zero one. Computers can understand us. Robots will understand

00:00:27   this episode.

00:00:28   have any idea what that means for a computer 101, what that sequence means?

00:00:32   >> I don't know, I don't speak binary. >> You don't speak computer?

00:00:37   >> Yeah. >> I'm looking it up now, I'm googling binary

00:00:41   now. >> Well it depends on what the thing is, I

00:00:42   mean, you know, it's a one and a zero and a one. I don't know, it depends on what you

00:00:48   translate that into, yeah. >> I don't understand these things. John

00:00:51   Siracusa, if he's out there, is very upset at me right now, I'm sure.

00:00:55   hexadecimal, and no, it's just binary. Anyway, 101, it's also an introductory class at your

00:01:01   undergraduate college or university. It's Upgrade 101. Welcome. This is the first in

00:01:07   a series, of course, it's about upgrading. Next semester, we upgrade 102, where we will

00:01:11   get more upgrading. Interesting. Well, spoilers for Upgrade 102. And it's also, you were pointing

00:01:20   out right before we started, it's also George Orwell reminds us, "This is where you put

00:01:24   the bad things in Room 101."

00:01:27   So you can make up your own mind, dear listeners, whether this is an introductory or a course,

00:01:32   or where we put all the bad things for the week.

00:01:35   Or if you're a robot, beep boop beep boop beep.

00:01:39   I want to start off today's episode with a little bit of follow-up and a clarification

00:01:43   on something that I spoke about last week when we were talking about TV stuff. I referenced

00:01:49   an article that I'd seen, some headlines that I'd seen about Dr. Dre that he was arrested.

00:01:53   A few years listeners wrote in to me to let me know that the headlines that I'd seen and

00:01:58   the articles that I had seen were kind of widely misreported and I've been sent in some

00:02:02   other stuff. I'm going to include a link in the show notes to the New York Daily News.

00:02:07   And basically I want to give a quick rundown as to what happened. So there was some stories

00:02:11   that have been put out from the Hollywood Reporter and stuff that said that Dre had

00:02:15   been arrested for having a gun outside. But it turns out that this all was kind of false

00:02:21   and it was all of these stories were predicated on the account that the accuser gave as opposed

00:02:26   to using any of the facts from the police reports. So this guy who made these accusations

00:02:31   against Dre had blocked his car, his driveway with his car and Dre asked him to move the

00:02:36   car and then called the police after the guy started acting aggressively. This guy then

00:02:41   started shouting that Dre was reaching for a gun when he was taking his phone out of

00:02:44   his pocket and then was videoing the guy as he was kind of acting quite

00:02:48   aggressively. The police came, they coughed Dre because it was accused of

00:02:52   having a gun. They spoke to him, they searched him, everything was fine. He

00:02:55   wasn't arrested, he was let on his way. The story was totally bogus and I was

00:02:58   suckered in and I've learned a lesson about repeating headlines. There you go.

00:03:03   Okay. I just wanted to follow up because it was so wrong and it was so bad for me

00:03:08   to just say it that I wanted to follow up because it was just flatly

00:03:13   the

00:03:33   images from messages on iOS. Eddie wrote in in Ask Upgrade last week to find out if we

00:03:39   knew any way to export the messages for the images and the media from inside the messages

00:03:45   app without doing it one at a time, so opening it and saving it to the camera roll.

00:03:49   I have a bunch of solutions here, Jason, so buckle up. Tobias was one of the many people

00:03:55   who recommended that on iOS you can tap and hold on a picture when you're in the details

00:04:00   screen of a message when you click into the contact and it shows you all of the media

00:04:04   in that view. If you tap and hold on that it gives you the ability to select multiple

00:04:11   ones you can click more and it lets you select multiple and then export them all but this

00:04:15   is still a little manual right you're still tapping everything to get them out. Ryan wrote

00:04:21   in and he has written a terminal command to let you get these images from messages on

00:04:27   the Mac. So you can throw this terminal command in and it will make a folder on your desktop

00:04:32   and you can do that. Ryan is a good guy but hey terminal commands I don't know what I'm

00:04:37   doing so I wouldn't do this one but it's there it's going to be in the show notes if you

00:04:43   want to get it it's in there. So that's one option. We have another one from Scott and

00:04:48   Scott I like this one Scott recommends go into your home directory in finder click view

00:04:54   options and click "Show Library" so you see the library folder. Then you can create

00:04:58   a new smart folder and point it at "Home directory/Library/Messages/Attachments." Oh

00:05:05   my god, Jason. Can you just do this one? Because you obviously understand it inherently more

00:05:10   than I do.

00:05:11   Okay. This is the Mac. You've got to be logged into your Mac and have these things. That's

00:05:17   the challenge though. Because this is stuff that's on your Mac. But you can make a new

00:05:21   Smart folder, right? So I would say the best thing to do this is to do go from the Go menu,

00:05:29   you go to folder or that's Command+Shift+G, and then you type the little tilde symbol,

00:05:35   which is for the home directory, slash library, slash messages, slash attachments, and then

00:05:39   boom, you've got the attachments folder open there. So then you do File, New Smart folder.

00:05:46   it says search and it's got this Mac highlighted, you click on attachments instead, and then

00:05:51   you do, you click the plus icon that's in the right corner. This is why we do screenshots,

00:05:55   Myke. You click the plus, this is, screenshot via podcast, not the most efficient format.

00:06:01   You click the plus icon and it gives you a little filter dropdown that by default is

00:06:05   like name matches something, but you can change that to be kind. And then once you change

00:06:09   it to kind, it changes to kind is, and there's a bunch of kind options, one of which is image.

00:06:16   And then at that point you've got "Kind as Image All" is what comes up.

00:06:20   You now have a smart folder that is all of the images in your attachments folder and

00:06:24   all its subfolders.

00:06:25   And if you save that as a new smart folder called, let's say, "Message Attachments,"

00:06:34   then it'll show up in the sidebar of your doc.

00:06:36   And now you've got a folder with, in my case, 835 different media items that are all images

00:06:42   saved by messages out into this subfolder. So it works.

00:06:47   And in theory, that would be everything, right? Because it downloads the whole thing. So that's

00:06:52   a way to do it on the Mac.

00:06:53   In theory!

00:06:54   In theory.

00:06:55   The Mac, anybody who uses a Mac and an iOS device has had that situation where some of

00:06:59   the stuff just doesn't come to some of the devices and it's a little bit inexplicable.

00:07:04   Still happens. My wife had one the other day that was amazing because she got text on her

00:07:10   Apple Watch that didn't come to her iPhone.

00:07:13   Yeah, I've heard that.

00:07:14   How, and how is that possible?

00:07:15   I don't know.

00:07:16   Because they come from the iPhone to the Apple Watch.

00:07:19   And yeah, the iPhone's like, "Look, I know I showed you a picture on the Apple Watch,

00:07:22   but I have no idea what you're talking about."

00:07:24   And it just doesn't, yeah, it's baffling.

00:07:26   So anyway, theoretically, if you've got a Mac and you leave it on enough that it is

00:07:31   syncing with the iMessage service, you could pull all your images out that way.

00:07:37   So there you go, there's some insane instructions to follow on a podcast but we did it anyway.

00:07:43   And finally, Ken recommends iExplorer. Apparently it can back up all your messages to text,

00:07:49   HTML and PDF like phone view can, but it can also back up attachments or photos only. And

00:07:55   I'll put a link to iExplorer in the chat room. Thank you so much to everybody who sent in

00:08:00   some suggestions for this and made for some just slightly peculiar follow-up for this

00:08:06   week's show. Mark had some follow-up about Star Trek The Wrath of Khan.

00:08:13   KAAAAAN!

00:08:15   That one. Apparently Montalban's chest was real. He was just built strongly.

00:08:21   That's what they say. I've always assumed that but you made me question myself when

00:08:25   you said "Come on." That's not...

00:08:28   But yeah, never question the Montalban.

00:08:30   No, never doubt him.

00:08:31   We were talking about the computer graphics for Genesis, the Genesis program, and they

00:08:36   were showing the computer imagery.

00:08:38   Pixar created these, and as soon as Mark said this, I remember this from Creativity Inc.

00:08:43   I'm pretty sure K

00:08:43   I'm pretty sure Kappel mentions this in Creativity Inc.

00:08:46   But I just hadn't put two and two together.

00:08:48   Yeah, and that is, like I said, that was the first lengthy, entirely computer-generated

00:08:58   sequence in a movie.

00:09:00   I think that was not even Pixar at that point.

00:09:02   They may still have just been the graphics group at Lucasfilm when they made it, but

00:09:06   it is that group.

00:09:08   It is what became Pixar when it spun out.

00:09:11   Yeah, for all intents and purposes, it's Pixar.

00:09:14   Yeah.

00:09:14   Now, this isn't really follow up as such,

00:09:16   but it's something that--

00:09:18   I mean, I at least don't have very much

00:09:19   to say about this at all, but I feel like it must be mentioned.

00:09:22   This morning, as we record this, which is the 8th of August,

00:09:25   2016, Fast Company published two articles/interviews

00:09:32   with Apple personnel and executives.

00:09:36   There's the first one, and they're written by Rick Tzeltzele.

00:09:41   who I believe was one of the people responsible for the Becoming Steve Jobs book.

00:09:45   Yep.

00:09:46   The first one kind of focuses on Tim Cook's Apple and talking about kind of where they've been

00:09:53   and how successful they are and talking about the dips and what could cause that

00:09:57   and how amazing services is going to be.

00:09:59   But there's kind of, at least for me, absolutely zero information in this article.

00:10:05   It just reads like an afterword of the Steve Jobs book than anything else.

00:10:11   and as soon as I saw him mention that he wrote that book, I was like,

00:10:14   "That's why it sounds like this. It's just a story, and it doesn't really...

00:10:18   All it's doing is just summing things up. There's no information."

00:10:21   The Apple executives were not needed in this story.

00:10:24   I don't know how you feel about it, but for me, the second article,

00:10:28   the interview with Bazoma St. John, who was the lady who did the fantastic presentation

00:10:33   of Apple Music at WWDC, her article is more interesting to me.

00:10:38   It equally doesn't really reveal anything, but it's got more flair to it because it's

00:10:42   an interview, and I love the way she talks.

00:10:44   It really puts a smile on my face.

00:10:46   I found that more enjoyable.

00:10:47   I don't know what you think.

00:10:49   I just feel like, great, these exist, but there's not really any substance to them.

00:10:54   Yeah, it's, who knows?

00:10:57   I'm not privy to all the background here, but it definitely reads like Fast Company

00:11:02   pitched a cover story about Apple, and they were given some access, including what a piece

00:11:08   here's like a fairly brief chat with Tim Cook and some conversation with Eddie Q and a conversation

00:11:15   with it looks like a conversation with Eddie Q and Craig Federighi. The way it's portrayed

00:11:20   in the story is sort of like they talk they're talking to Eddie and then Craig walks up and

00:11:23   joins them. And so you've got as a reporter I think about it as you've got this limited

00:11:30   amount of access but it's very special access and you got to go to Apple for the day and

00:11:37   you use that and kind of weave that all together into a story that is also about people doubting

00:11:42   Apple and people not doubting Apple. And there's some context in it that I appreciated. I really

00:11:49   liked the fact that when they said, you know, people were complaining about Apple not being

00:11:56   as great as they were during that during that run of the iPod, iPhone and iPad, that the

00:12:02   that he phrased it was the perception of that time, and then later he talked about how people

00:12:09   tend to forget the failures and the G4 Cube comes up, the circular mouse comes up, the

00:12:17   rocker comes up, right? And so I appreciated that because a lot of these stories are written

00:12:23   by people who don't understand the history of Apple and fall into those same old traps

00:12:28   of, you know, saying, it's the litany, we can read it all, right? It's the Steve Jobs

00:12:34   was great, this would never have happened if Steve Jobs were still alive, that always

00:12:38   comes up. He had a perfect record, now everything is terrible. And when you take a step back,

00:12:43   you're like, no, actually, he didn't have a perfect record, everything is not terrible,

00:12:47   Apple's doing really well. The performance in 2015 was an outlier and Apple is paying

00:12:52   for that now, but their fundamentals seem pretty good because they're up from 2014,

00:12:59   which means the overall track is still upward, they just had a really really great year that

00:13:05   they couldn't match, and that's not proof that they're on the way down, in fact they

00:13:09   seem to not be on the way down. And he makes a lot of those points.

00:13:14   I just feel like a lot of this could be written without the need to include the executives.

00:13:20   the power of access, right? Is they got special access to Tim Cook and Eddie Q and Craig Federighi

00:13:27   and you want to show it off. And you've got photo and you got you got Basima and you got

00:13:32   a photo shoot with her and you've got so you've got pictures and you've got access and you

00:13:37   want to do the other thing is you want to do a cover story and you don't know what you're

00:13:41   going to get but whatever you get you're going to make it into a cover story.

00:13:44   Also, the very best photo of Craig Federighi ever taken exists in this article, where he

00:13:50   is completely blue stealing it.

00:13:53   Yeah, oh yeah, yeah. You can see it in the storytelling too, that there's a lot of context

00:14:00   that's not, like you said, it's not actually incumbent on any of the interviews, it's just

00:14:04   context being added by the writer who knows about the subject matter. And they weave the

00:14:09   quotes in from the executives, but they don't say a lot, they say some things, there's some

00:14:13   nice bits in there. But I definitely got the sense from a trade perspective as a journalist,

00:14:19   I look at it and think, you know, I see what you're doing here. You are trying very hard

00:14:23   to build this whole structure around not a lot of great original stuff, but you got a

00:14:30   little nugget of access and some direct quotes from people who don't always give direct quotes

00:14:35   to the press. And so, you know, but it's always a bit of a red flag when a story starts out

00:14:42   and it gives you detail about the atmosphere and what people are wearing and the smell

00:14:49   of the food. Not that that can't be evocative, but it also can be a red flag that that's

00:14:57   all that they've got. And so it's like, well, we don't have because if it was like, Tim

00:15:01   Cook opens his heart about how difficult it's been to follow Steve Jobs and how he questions

00:15:05   every day whether he's making the right decisions. And then Eddie Q says, and he says a little

00:15:11   bit of this. It's like, I believe in Tim, I have the same sort of thing from Tim that

00:15:15   I got from Steve. I mean, if they got stuff like that, you know how this story would go.

00:15:19   But they didn't really get that. So instead it's like, "Eddie Q wears wacky clothing,

00:15:24   and we're outside in the sun in California smelling the food from Cafe Mac."

00:15:29   And he has some stuff to say about sports teams.

00:15:31   Yeah, oh yeah, and they talk about the Warriors a lot, which I also found weird because it

00:15:35   dates the story, that these interviews are not like interviews done in the last couple

00:15:38   of weeks, there are interviews that were done when the NBA playoffs had ended, so that's

00:15:42   like, what is that? That's like a month ago now, I think. So, you know, it's fine. I think,

00:15:50   kudos to them. You know, I interviewed Steve Jobs for Macworld one time, and it took us

00:15:56   a year to get him on the phone for five minutes, so I appreciate the fact that they got this

00:16:00   access and that they, and that I kind of like the EdiQ thing was kind of interesting when

00:16:06   he talked about Tim and that, you know, that he feels like, although Tim is a different,

00:16:10   very different person from Steve, he still feels like that same kind of, you know, expectation

00:16:15   that uh, that was Eddie, right? That is like…

00:16:18   Yeah, yeah. He also said about he's not basically not as scared, which was a weird

00:16:23   line that they included.

00:16:24   Yeah, yeah, I don't know. It's uh, it's interesting. And Craig Federighi drops in,

00:16:30   um, they mentioned Scott Forstall, they mentioned maps, actually that's the thing that I wanted

00:16:34   to mention about this article that I thought was really good.

00:16:37   Yeah, the maps thing is good. It's a piece of information.

00:16:40   Because that's a good example of like, we screwed this up and why we screwed it up.

00:16:46   And it's what we've all thought. And what I still tell people to this day, which is

00:16:51   one of the great problems with maps and judging maps, is you have to judge it about the information

00:16:56   where you live. And I live in California. I live in the Bay Area. The Apple Maps, because

00:17:02   will say, "Why? You still use Apple Maps? I can't believe that. Why would you do that?"

00:17:06   And it's like, well, it's good to live very close to Apple because the maps here are really

00:17:11   good. The flip side of that is, and Eddy Cue said that, is driving around Cupertino, everything

00:17:17   looks great. All the map data looks great. There's no problem there. And then they realized

00:17:22   too late that the rest of the world, the map data was terrible, but they didn't know it.

00:17:28   was this implication there too that... and they blame a lot of it on Scott Forrestal,

00:17:35   but I think it was more than that. I think it's also something that's inside Apple, that

00:17:40   Apple is so used to having these small teams. They mentioned that Apple has like double

00:17:44   the employees it had when Steve Jobs was the CEO, since Tim Cook has been there. And I

00:17:49   think the maps was a good example of that, where Apple tried to do maps with what they

00:17:53   said was like a couple dozen people. They tried to redo maps with a very small group.

00:17:59   And what they say anyway is, "Huh, you can't do that." Like, they don't say that doing

00:18:06   maps on their own and not using Google was a mistake because they felt like, and I think

00:18:10   it's been proven, it's a key part of what they do. They want that technology. They want

00:18:13   to be able to control it. The problem was they launched it too soon and they thought

00:18:17   they could get away with a very small effort to do it. And it turns out it actually is

00:18:22   an enormous effort because you're mapping the entire world and everything in it. And

00:18:25   now they apparently have a huge group of people, like they said more than a thousand people

00:18:30   now work on maps. So that's an interesting little tidbit that they thought they could

00:18:34   get away with 50 people or whatever. And it turned out that they were way, way off on

00:18:41   the level of the job that was going to be required. And then they learned their lesson.

00:18:45   But what was really interesting about it is that Eddy Cue then turned it around and said,

00:18:49   That's why we do public betas now.

00:18:52   And I thought that was an interesting bit of insight that I hadn't really thought

00:18:54   of before, which is Apple getting burned by having two Insular community testing their

00:19:01   stuff, which was Inside Apple and then developers.

00:19:07   And they felt like this, somebody made the argument that, you know, how we get around

00:19:10   this is we open the doors.

00:19:12   And they're not opening the doors before they announce publicly things because they

00:19:16   can't do that.

00:19:17   certainly in this beta period let it out there to people who want to try it. So that if somebody

00:19:22   in let's say Slovenia, hi Anje, Tomić, tries out iOS beta and goes, "Oh, this thing in

00:19:31   Slovenia is totally broken now." Somebody at Apple can actually hear that instead of

00:19:36   them shipping it saying, "It works great in California," and then the entire nation of

00:19:40   Slovenia saying, "No, it's destroyed us." So that's good. That's a good thing.

00:19:46   So, some of St. Joan's article was interesting as well. The big kind of crux of it was algorithm

00:19:51   versus human curation. Yeah.

00:19:53   She really put a lot of emphasis on the way that Apple uses the human curation, how important

00:19:58   it was. But I wanted to see if you could clarify something for me. Aren't Apple bringing algorithmic

00:20:03   mixes to Apple Music with iOS 10? They spoke about doing daily mixes and stuff like that,

00:20:09   and they're surely not picked by humans. Right. I would imagine that it's a mixture of them.

00:20:13   I don't know that for sure, but they could.

00:20:18   It seems like you would want a mixture of algorithm and people.

00:20:22   And that if you want to personalize things...

00:20:24   They're really doubling down on the human thing, especially in its art school, right?

00:20:27   And she's the head of marketing, so that's their thing.

00:20:30   And kind of a lot of it is, you know, she's talking about how much people love the human

00:20:34   curation, which I get, and I understand it, but...

00:20:37   I love it.

00:20:38   I mean, you can't fight against Spotify, though, right?

00:20:41   saying that people love what Spotify does, people love Spotify's Discover Weekly, and

00:20:46   none of that is human curated.

00:20:48   So yeah, how do you differentiate yourself when you're behind your competition is you

00:20:51   point out what's different, which is we've got the human curation and that's great, which

00:20:54   is great. They probably, right, it would be wise for them to also be pushing hard on algorithms,

00:21:00   but they're not ahead on algorithms now or even close, so they're going to push on where

00:21:04   they feel they are ahead, which is the human curation, which is fine. That was a nice interview.

00:21:10   That's Mark Sullivan who used to be my colleague at, he was a PC World editor for a long time

00:21:15   and it was nice. She's an interesting character and he asked her like, "Why haven't we seen

00:21:22   you before?" And she's like, "You know, I've only been here a couple of years, give it

00:21:24   time." And it was really funny, it was almost like, "I will take over the world, but patience,

00:21:28   patience."

00:21:29   I loved it. It was a perfect answer and I can imagine it came so quickly, right? Like

00:21:34   just immediately, "Well, I've only been here for two years. I'm going to be the CEO, what's

00:21:38   your problem?"

00:21:39   I think she's fantastic.

00:21:40   I'm pleased they're giving her more spotlight.

00:21:42   And I think this is an example of a change in Apple,

00:21:46   which I think is good.

00:21:47   They knew this interview was gonna go out there.

00:21:49   They knew it was gonna be focused

00:21:50   on the three white main guys.

00:21:52   So they asked or kind of said,

00:21:55   "We also want you to interview St. John as well."

00:21:58   And I think this is something that we're starting

00:22:00   to see a little bit more of, which I like.

00:22:02   They're trying to balance it out.

00:22:04   That's my perception of it,

00:22:05   is that they're aware of what they're doing

00:22:08   and they're trying to balance it,

00:22:09   which is the right thing to do.

00:22:10   They're trying. I mean, I'm not quite sure how an interview centered on three white guys,

00:22:19   two of whom with gray hair, I say that as a white guy with gray hair, is balanced out

00:22:25   by a little interview sidebar with a black woman.

00:22:27   It's not completely equal, but it's better than nothing.

00:22:30   Yeah, well, I think what it shows is that Apple understands that this is an issue that

00:22:36   they need to deal with and a perception that they need to approach. And they're aware of

00:22:42   that in a way that they weren't before. There's more they probably have to do on that front,

00:22:47   but they're aware of the perception and trying to, and being a PR person, right, is all about

00:22:54   how you manage that perception. And so now she's more visible and she's in this article

00:22:58   and that's good because I think everybody's reaction to her has been really positive.

00:23:04   So it's smart for them to get her out there more and talk about Apple Music, which is

00:23:08   also a key thing, right?

00:23:10   I think a little more of her, and I should say, I should also specify, Eddie Q is Cuban,

00:23:17   so he's not just a totally generic white Anglo guy, but still, more diversity inside Apple

00:23:27   is important.

00:23:28   They have their diversity ratings, which came out lately, which shows again, they show progress,

00:23:32   but it's not particularly fast progress.

00:23:34   but it's progress. So this is all part of, you know, first step is actually being aware

00:23:39   that there's something that you need to care about. And they seem to be at that point and

00:23:44   are trying to make change. And then people can criticize the pace of that change, I think,

00:23:50   fairly.

00:23:51   So next week it is Relay FM's second third? How many years? Second?

00:23:57   Second.

00:23:58   Second, thank you.

00:23:59   I know, it seems like five, but it's two.

00:24:01   3IFM's second birthday next week. So I'm going to Memphis and you're going to come to Memphis

00:24:07   for a couple of days. So we're going to record the show in person in Memphis. And if you

00:24:11   are in that area, we're going to be having a meet up on Tuesday, August the 16th. I'm

00:24:17   going to put a link in the show notes to a Facebook event page if you want to come. Please

00:24:22   kind of RSVP at that page. It is at a brewery so it will be 21 plus I'm afraid. So we're

00:24:30   gonna be hanging out? We've heard from some of our younger people that are sad that it's

00:24:35   there but we had to do it somewhere and that's what we chose and there will be beer. But

00:24:40   yeah we'll be recording live and in person next Tuesday as well. I'm looking forward

00:24:44   to so yes if you're expecting our episodes to be released on the Monday as they usually

00:24:48   are it will be delayed a little bit because I'm traveling yeah we are both flying in and

00:24:54   get in sort of we're both in the air in fact when we're when we're normally recording this

00:24:58   but we will catch up and do it on Tuesday in person with Mr. Steven Hackett.

00:25:03   Yep. And that should be a lot of fun. Now, you are also not... you're traveling home

00:25:09   and will not be available the following week. That's true. So we'll have a very special

00:25:14   guest for that episode too, which is... it's all scheduled with me and Merlin Mann. So

00:25:20   hopefully Merlin will be back to chat some more. I'm excited. I really enjoyed the last

00:25:25   one that you guys did when I was in New York. I'm actually going to be in New York again.

00:25:29   Every time I go to New York you have Merlin on the show.

00:25:31   Yeah, that's all part of the grand plan. It's how the universe keeps in balance.

00:25:36   This week's episode is brought to you by a new sponsor, an upgrade, and that is Eero.

00:25:42   Now you may have heard of Eero, but let me paint a picture for you, dear listener. If

00:25:46   you think about everything in your home these days, it basically all requires an internet

00:25:50   connection and that is only growing. You know, we have our phones and our iPads and our computers

00:25:55   in our games consoles. But now speakers, thermostats, light bulbs, front door locks, security cameras,

00:26:01   everything needs an internet connection as we move further and further towards this connected

00:26:06   home idea. We are increasingly as well using streaming services. Netflix, Hulu, Spotify,

00:26:11   these are all used for our home entertainment. The foundation of all of this technology is

00:26:16   Wi-Fi. We are completely dependent on it, but for many people it is broken. So I want

00:26:21   to paint a picture for you to try and highlight the importance of good Wi-Fi coverage. Imagine

00:26:25   if you went upstairs and you went to your bedroom and you plugged your iPhone charger

00:26:30   into a wall socket and you plugged your phone in and you got a little pop-up on your phone

00:26:34   and it said no the electricity connection is bad in this part of the house so we cannot

00:26:40   charge your phone. This is a ridiculous sounding thing but this is what Wi-Fi is like. There

00:26:45   are those corners of our homes that are dead zones or have terrible connection, have terrible

00:26:50   coverage. We don't want to deal with this. This is why you need Eero. To get the best

00:26:55   connection these days, you need a distributed system that can provide you with connection

00:26:59   all over your home. This has previously been super expensive to do, but this is what Eero

00:27:04   is all about. You can install an enterprise-grade Wi-Fi system in your home in just a few minutes.

00:27:09   It isn't just an extender. Each Eero has two radios inside. It keeps your connection fast,

00:27:14   it's chaining them all together, and keeps everything in sync, all on one network name.

00:27:18   You don't have multiple networks in your home that you have to connect to, which is one

00:27:21   name.

00:27:22   You simply download the Eero app on your iOS or Android device.

00:27:25   It will walk you through each step of the process.

00:27:27   It's quick, easy, and painless.

00:27:28   You then have the ability to manage your network from the palm of your hand.

00:27:32   You'll know how many devices are connected.

00:27:34   You can give priorities to stuff.

00:27:35   You know your internet speeds, all of the points.

00:27:38   It's absolutely awesome.

00:27:39   Now, Jason, I know that you have an Eero.

00:27:42   How easy was it for you to set up?

00:27:43   I set it up last week.

00:27:45   And it was, my house isn't particularly large, but we have some connection issues where I've

00:27:51   had challenges finding the right setup in order to get Wi-Fi coverage in the whole house

00:27:57   through walls and in the backyard and things like that.

00:28:00   And the package I got was the three-pack, although if you have a small house like mine,

00:28:05   I probably could have just done with the two-pack, but I did set up the three-pack.

00:28:08   And it was super easy.

00:28:10   As you described it, you know, you really, you go to the app and you set it up and then

00:28:15   you plug in the first device and it gets on the internet and it walks you through it very

00:28:21   easily. And that's a pretty standard Wi-Fi experience on that first device, although

00:28:27   it was easy. There were no complications and I think that if you're using Apple hardware,

00:28:31   you get spoiled. If you use non-Apple hardware, it's not that easy to get it set up. But this

00:28:35   was like an Apple level, I would say. Very, very simple to set up. And then the second

00:28:40   you know, you plug it in and say, "Okay, here's another one," and it says, "Okay, let me check.

00:28:47   Okay, it looks good. All right, we're set up." And at that point, and then the third one was the

00:28:53   same. And I actually, it's flexible enough, and the system is smart enough that I actually had

00:28:57   one place where I wanted to put one where there was an Ethernet plug. So I plugged it into Ethernet

00:29:01   there. And so it knows that it's on Ethernet and that it doesn't need to extend using its own

00:29:07   wireless mesh network at that point, it could actually just use the Ethernet to get even

00:29:11   more stability. But the third one I had has no Ethernet and it's just floating around

00:29:17   and the same deal, right? It looks around, it finds the other Eros, it goes, "Alright,

00:29:23   I'm connected." And at that point, I just have one network, I've already set up with

00:29:26   the SSID, when I change the SSID, it changes it everywhere automatically. It all just sort

00:29:31   of happens. And I've tried to have multiple base stations in various places in all sorts

00:29:38   of different combinations, and it was complicated and felt unreliable. And that's the thing

00:29:43   that I think that the Eero system is doing really well is it's kind of hiding all of

00:29:48   that. It's designed to have multiple stations that's built in. It's not like a weird afterthought.

00:29:54   And yeah, and so the result was incredibly simple, and now I have this solid Wi-Fi signal

00:30:00   throughout my home, all the way up here into the garage, all the way into the back bedroom,

00:30:05   and out into the, if I'm laying on the hammock, reading off my iPad, it's clear there too.

00:30:11   So you mentioned like it just being easy and that stuff. One of the other things that Eero

00:30:14   does is they have their updates to the system. It happens overnight, like when you're not

00:30:19   using it, it detects when you're not using it. And you get stuff like their new parental

00:30:22   control feature, which lets you create profiles for your family members and manage all of

00:30:27   their internet access and they do security updates. This is not your normal router. As

00:30:32   Jason mentioned, he has a 3 pack. This is a good starting point for most homes. Most

00:30:37   homes can be covered between 2 or 3 Eros in the US. But they suggest get 3 and they have

00:30:43   a 30 day money back guarantee. You can always just send one of them back and get your money

00:30:47   back for that one as well. You can add up to 10 in total if you live in some kind of

00:30:51   mansion house I guess. If you want to find out more about the Ero and get one for yourself,

00:30:56   just go to ero.com that's E E R O dot com and I know that as you're listening to this

00:31:01   you want it straight away well as a listener of this show you can get free overnight shipping

00:31:05   just select the overnight shipping option when you get to check out enter the code upgrade

00:31:10   and you will get free overnight shipping at ero.com thank you so much to ero for supporting

00:31:14   this show and relay FM it's a cool company cool product yeah talking about something

00:31:21   cool I wanted to very briefly give a mini review of Pocket Cast 6. I've been playing

00:31:28   around with it a little bit, it came out a week or so ago and I thought that it would

00:31:33   be good to mention it because Pocket Cast is 6 revision now and they've added quite

00:31:37   a few new features which I like and I wanted to give a little bit of love to that. So they

00:31:43   have a dark mode now as well as an overall design refresh of the application and I absolutely

00:31:49   love the way the PocketCast looks. One of my favourite places for this application,

00:31:55   like from a design perspective, is their directory screen. They have a really great kind of featured

00:32:01   page and stuff like that that I like. Jason, have you seen this at all? It's a really,

00:32:05   really good looking page and they feature a few different shows, they have trending

00:32:09   and most popular lists and they do a really good job of highlighting that stuff and I

00:32:13   think it's really good. And I like to see Relay FM right there on the networks page,

00:32:18   it makes me happy to.

00:32:19   I like to see the incomparable right there as well.

00:32:21   Yep.

00:32:22   That makes me very happy to see that stuff.

00:32:23   I think it looks really good, and when I say about added stuff, they've added trim, silence,

00:32:29   and volume boost, they call it.

00:32:31   So it's like the stuff that we have in Overcast and has existed in other applications as well,

00:32:35   but I think it's been popularized by Marco, right?

00:32:39   Like the silence skimming and trimming and different kind of effects to make shows louder

00:32:45   and to make them sound better on speakers and stuff.

00:32:47   Yeah, and they did a good--Shifty Jelly did a good job with it too.

00:32:50   Yeah, they did do a good job.

00:32:52   They sound good. I'm skeptical of speed-up algorithms because speed-up algorithms in general,

00:32:57   I have been unable to stomach. They are--generally, I find them unlistenable because it's sort of tick

00:33:04   tick tick tick tick. There's weird artifacts. And Overcast was the first app that really did

00:33:09   time compression stuff where I felt it was transparent and I was willing to use it.

00:33:14   And the, yeah, the, uh, the, the, um, the PocketCast stuff is, is like that.

00:33:21   It's, it's much better.

00:33:22   It sounds very good.

00:33:23   So I have been playing around with it.

00:33:25   I remember in like the early betas and stuff and, uh, on the Android app, and

00:33:30   I've seen the progression that PocketCasts have gone through with theirs and theirs

00:33:33   sounds excellent as well.

00:33:34   And you should have seen me the other night.

00:33:36   I was playing two devices side by side, the same show to try and see

00:33:40   if I could hear any differences.

00:33:41   And to me, the differences are small and I think they're there the way that I perceive them.

00:33:47   And it's so difficult with this sort of stuff because you're just trying to play on what you're hearing.

00:33:50   It's not like a scientific test.

00:33:52   But to my ears, it sounds like Overcast is still preserving more silence than Pocketcast is.

00:34:00   And one of the reasons I like that is silence removal is a good thing.

00:34:07   but having there be no silence when people are talking, I think that sounds a little unnatural.

00:34:13   And I know that Overcast, the way I've heard Marco talk about it, is he doesn't just delete the silence.

00:34:18   It is just shorten down and there's still some left in there.

00:34:21   He scales it, basically.

00:34:22   Exactly.

00:34:23   Which is very clever.

00:34:24   So you're keeping a pause, a longer pause or a shorter pause will still be longer or shorter,

00:34:29   it will just be less, but it's sort of proportionally less, I think.

00:34:33   And it totally sounds like that sort of starts happening in pocket casts too, but to me, just to my ears

00:34:38   I preferred the way that overcast sounds and one of the things that I noticed is I was

00:34:42   with my show The Ring Post and The Incomparable, there's some music that I use in it and

00:34:46   The music sounded more closer to the original in overcast than it did in pocket casts

00:34:52   That was that was the main thing that I could hear. It's a very small thing because honestly it does a great job

00:34:57   I think it's just a case of what you prefer when you listen to them

00:35:00   And I think a lot of it is just the perception and I think there's some stuff going on there

00:35:04   that's like deep subconscious stuff, right?

00:35:06   But I just feel like the Overcast one works better for me.

00:35:09   One thing that PocketCasts does really well that not a lot of podcast apps do really well anymore is video podcasts.

00:35:16   Like the Apple podcast app doesn't do a very good job, Overcast doesn't support them at all,

00:35:21   and they just add a picture-in-picture and split-screen multitasking. So there are still some video podcasts that I watch. I subscribe to Grey's

00:35:30   Videos via an RSS feed as well. So if there's ever video podcasts like at the Apple events and stuff like that

00:35:36   Pocket cast is where I play them and now with picture in picture even better

00:35:41   They also added just perfectly in time for me mp3 chapters and custom artwork

00:35:47   It was like the day after we published cortex where we had like seven chapters and seven custom-made artworks. I kind of went a bit crazy

00:35:54   uh-huh, and

00:35:57   It came out and it had all of those in there and also last week. I don't know if you notice this

00:36:02   I put some special artwork in this show. I put the 100 emoji on the artwork. Very nice

00:36:07   I didn't notice that there you go. So you could see that in the in pocket cause I've been doing that

00:36:12   I did it with

00:36:13   Analog as well because we were talking about engagement and how stuff and for the chapters that I used I put little

00:36:19   Emoji like a ring emoji in a house emoji, which I should probably take a very quick diversion to talk about my chapters mentality

00:36:27   I do use them every now and then. I use them when I feel it's necessary to include them for some reason.

00:36:34   So last week's episode had it because we had a mic at the movie segment.

00:36:37   But just like for me, regular episodes, I don't think that this show necessarily needs the chapters so much.

00:36:43   You just listen to it, we talk about some stuff.

00:36:45   There are some shows where I always put chapters in them when they're a little bit more timeless and topic-based.

00:36:50   I kind of just play around with it. My feeling is I don't think every episode of every podcast should have chapters in it.

00:36:55   chapters in it. I do it when I feel it's right. I know that you use them more than me, but

00:36:58   that's kind of just my feeling about it right now.

00:37:00   Yeah, and I don't use them. So, like, if you look at our accidental tech podcast, Marco

00:37:05   basically chapterizes that whole thing now. And I, it's nice that they're there, but I

00:37:11   don't really use those. I feel like in most cases that's overkill. Although it's great

00:37:16   if he's, he wants to do it. I'm sure there are listeners out there who really appreciate

00:37:19   For me, it varies by the podcast, but like, incomparable, I'll do it when there's a clear

00:37:26   line of demarcation I want to make. So if we fire off the spoiler horn, or if we talk

00:37:31   about two movies, or two books, or four books, or something like that, I will absolutely

00:37:37   chapterize those episodes. And Clockwise, I—Clockwise is so rigorously formatted that

00:37:43   I feel like it's perfect for that structure. Like, I put them in there—even though I'm

00:37:49   I'm not sure anybody is skipping to the next topic, but if they want to, I just feel like

00:37:53   it's a good show for that, because it is split into four segments plus the goodbyes.

00:37:59   So it's a good place for it.

00:38:00   And there's fixed segments as well.

00:38:01   There's not like five one week, seven another week.

00:38:03   It doesn't work like that.

00:38:04   Exactly.

00:38:05   So the same way, I release lots of episodes that have no chapter marks in them because

00:38:09   I feel like it's just an episode.

00:38:12   I'm not going to go through and say, "Well, this is the part where we talked about how

00:38:18   the movie made us feel, and it's just, "No, I'm not going to do that. That's a bridge

00:38:23   too far. People want to do that, that's great." And we could do it on this, but I feel like

00:38:27   you're probably making the right approach, which is, there's a line, and when we cross

00:38:32   it, that's the moment when we chapterize.

00:38:34   So, also, whilst we're down in this rabbit hole, for Upgrading Connected, I believe in

00:38:40   speed. These are news-based shows, news is breaking all the time. I want them out as

00:38:45   as soon as possible. To get chapters right, a lot of the time you have to listen back

00:38:50   to the show to edit, and I don't do listen-through edits for those two shows. I have my whole

00:38:56   weird system of writing down time codes to take out crosstalk, and I spend a lot of time

00:39:00   doing that. But if I do a full listen-through edit, I wouldn't be able to get these shows

00:39:05   out for maybe a couple of days, because that takes an incredible amount of time to go through

00:39:09   and edit that way. So I have my own system, which means that I can get this show out in

00:39:13   30 minutes and honestly I think it sounds great. Like if you listen to the difference

00:39:17   between the live show and the release show, you know me and Jason are talking over each

00:39:22   other all the time, there are things that we repeat, there are things that we change

00:39:24   and I edit all of those and clean up the show, but I do that with my own way.

00:39:29   Tim Cynova Not clean. I did that on purpose. I just

00:39:32   over talk for an example for the… leave that one in.

00:39:34   Tim Cynova Yeah, I'm gonna see that. That's how it

00:39:36   would sound. Do you want that? Do you want that to listen? No, you don't. So I take

00:39:41   my time to do it but if I was to really add chapters probably I'd have to listen to the

00:39:45   whole show and it would mean upgrade would be posted maybe two days later because that's

00:39:49   a lot of work to put into my schedule.

00:39:51   So right I do a listen through for the incomparable because I do a lot of editing on that usually

00:39:57   and yeah that's a multi-hours process so not only is that more a lot more time to be put

00:40:03   in but it also requires that those shows are not instantly posted and the ones that I post

00:40:08   instantly don't get that.

00:40:11   If you see a show that has chapters in it from me, typically on like a regular basis,

00:40:16   it's one that I post weirdly. Like so for example, Cortex always has chapters in it

00:40:21   because I edit it over the space of a week, basically, so I have the time for it. I put

00:40:27   chapters in the ring post, but it's because we have big sections that are the same, and

00:40:33   I don't need to do anything with them because I recorded three different people so I can

00:40:35   just see it in the WAV file. So it's easy. It's easy for me to do.

00:40:39   And Martin in the chat room says there are no chapters in Robot or Not. That's not entirely

00:40:42   true. There are sometimes, like everything in Robot or Not, the podcast to do with John

00:40:46   Siracusa, chapters are used to frustrate the listener, and ironically, most of the time.

00:40:52   I have done it where there's been like a two-minute-long episode with three or four chapter markers

00:40:57   in it. Again, because that's what that show is all about, is driving you crazy.

00:41:03   We have gotten way too far into the weeds now.

00:41:06   So pulling it back out again to talk about Pocket Casts.

00:41:10   So yeah, I'm pleased that they've added the chapter support, MP3, I had AAC chapter support,

00:41:14   but AAC chapters have kind of died off.

00:41:16   I think most people are doing MP3 chapters now, and a lot of us are doing it because

00:41:21   we're on a beta for a tool that uses, makes them in MP3s.

00:41:25   I think it's really interesting that this application is now fully, basically all written

00:41:30   in Swift with a few parts that aren't.

00:41:32   I can't think of any other high profile third party applications that have been basically

00:41:37   completely ported to Swift right now.

00:41:39   I can't think of any.

00:41:41   This is one of the first that I'd heard of.

00:41:42   It doesn't really make any difference to me I don't think, but I just thought it was worthwhile

00:41:47   to note.

00:41:48   I was surprised when I saw that in their blog post about it.

00:41:51   I was like huh, okay that's an interesting thing that Russell did there was to move it

00:41:56   to Swift.

00:41:57   Because it feels like a lot of the developers that I follow, you know, and I'm thinking

00:42:02   about under the radar here, David and Marco, they're both a little bit hesitant at Swift

00:42:07   and they're both starting to dip their toe in the water, but Shifty Jelly have just moved

00:42:12   their biggest application on iOS to Swift. I thought, huh, that's a bold move.

00:42:19   Overall, Pocket Cast 6 I think is really good. It's fantastic. They've done an incredible

00:42:26   job with it. I think that PocketCast is basically the... it's hands-down the best

00:42:32   cross-platform podcast application. Their Android app is spectacular, their

00:42:38   web app is brilliant. Have you ever used the PocketCast web app? I don't know if I

00:42:42   have. It's really really good. So you know like I know that Marco's mentioned this

00:42:46   before like basically Overcast on the web it's just a list of shows you know

00:42:49   you can just go through and listen to them but the PocketCast web app is a

00:42:53   a web client of a podcast app. It has a list, it has playlists, like it's all there. So

00:42:58   that's really good. I've got to say, I am still going to continue to use Overcast and

00:43:02   there are a few reasons for that for me. I just prefer the way that Smart Speed sounds

00:43:07   and works. And also the trim silence in Pocket Cast right now is only for downloaded shows

00:43:14   and I basically stream everything now because I'm always at home when I'm listening to shows

00:43:17   for the majority of the time. So that not working there doesn't really work for me.

00:43:23   And also I love Marco's Inbox feature on Overcast, the ability to upload MP3 files of maybe shows

00:43:31   I'm working on or audiobooks that I've legally acquired and done some stuff to to get them

00:43:37   into Inbox.

00:43:40   And ultimately for me now, I've been using Overcast for so long it's just become the

00:43:45   way that I think about podcasts.

00:43:47   It's like Tweetbot is for me and Twittorific is for you.

00:43:50   It's just the app that is synonymous with the type of thing that it does.

00:43:55   But I do think it's worth noting that there are other great options, which is why I wanted

00:43:58   to talk about this today.

00:43:59   And Graham at Mac Stories posted a review of PocketCast 6 today, and he made a great

00:44:05   point, which was one of the reasons I wanted to bring this up in the first place, is I

00:44:09   think that it's really great to see that there is still great choice and interesting development

00:44:15   occurring on podcast applications.

00:44:19   it kind of feels like that is a market that should have matured by now and just be stagnating

00:44:25   but it's not. There's still lots of really interesting stuff happening and there's some

00:44:29   good stuff on the way as well. I know that the Castro team, Supertop, they are teasing

00:44:36   the Castro 2 and it looks really really interesting. So yeah, there's still some very cool stuff

00:44:43   going on out there and as somebody who makes their living on this stuff, I'm really happy

00:44:50   to see that the third party applications that are kind of where our audience is, that market

00:44:57   is still thriving. So I would recommend go check out PocketCasts. It's like $3.99 or

00:45:03   something. It's not expensive. Just go and see. You might like it. If not, if you use

00:45:07   PocketCasts, go check out Overcast. If you use Castro, go check them out and make sure

00:45:11   keep an eye out for Castro too. Just download them all is what I'm saying because they're

00:45:15   all great and they're made by great people so.

00:45:17   Very much a very much like how Twitter was before Twitter closed the API. You're right

00:45:22   there. It is the famously I think Gruber called it the UI playground and it is like that that

00:45:29   everybody is trying to advance the ball in different ways and then also catch up with

00:45:32   the competition. So Marco's audio stuff or I think really spurred Pocket Casts to to

00:45:39   improve the game on the audio side, but PuckerCast also does things that Overcast doesn't do.

00:45:44   Castro is trying some new things that are going to make that very interesting for people

00:45:49   that the other two aren't doing right now. I mean, there's a lot going on there. And

00:45:53   if you love podcasts, it's always good to, I think, to shop around. These are relatively,

00:46:00   again, if you can't afford $3 to try out another podcast app that you might love, then I guess

00:46:05   just don't buy it but it seems like a very small price to pay if you're somebody who

00:46:09   listens to a lot of podcasts because maybe you'll find another tool that fits your life

00:46:13   better. I don't know.

00:46:14   So yeah, that's that. All right.

00:46:17   Germin watch.

00:46:18   He's back. He's back at Bloomberg.

00:46:22   We spoke about Mark Germin when he moved to Bloomberg a few weeks ago and we were wondering

00:46:26   what that was going to look like for him. Well, now we know. Germin has done a few things

00:46:31   in the last couple of weeks and he's roll over at Bloomberg right now. One of them,

00:46:37   oh man, autoplay video, oosh. Ah, it's just Bloomberg, you're killing me. Welcome to my

00:46:43   world.

00:46:44   Yeah, welcome to my world.

00:46:45   Autoplay video, I just can't, I just can't. Anyway, so, uh, German is doing a few things.

00:46:49   He has been reporting on some just general news stuff, like the fact that Apple released

00:46:54   the iPhone app to control the Apple TV. So that sort of stuff's in there, he's doing

00:46:58   and Beat Reporting, but he's also breaking some stories. One of them was that Apple is

00:47:03   hiring a car person, a guy by the name of Dan Dodge, who's a former CEO and founder

00:47:10   of QNX, which was bought by Blackberry. Of course there's a guy named Dodge who's a car

00:47:16   person.

00:47:17   Yep, kind of perfect. And basically saying that Dodge is going to be working on some

00:47:21   automated software stuff for them, he's going to be joining Big Bob Mansfield, and he did

00:47:26   have some tidbits that I thought were interesting in this car story. Apparently Apple has hundreds

00:47:30   of engineers working on a car design and is targeting a release of 2020. Mansfield's division,

00:47:36   he's running the car division it seems, comprises of three pillars led by Apple veterans.

00:47:41   Software team under John Wright, a sensor group headed by Benjamin Lyon and a unit of hardware

00:47:51   engineers led by DJ Notevny. Mansfield apparently reports to Cook directly and Dan Dodge is

00:47:58   a part of John Wright's software group. There is stuff happening. I think at this point,

00:48:03   whilst we were, you know, there's a lot of dancing around like maybe they are, maybe

00:48:06   they aren't, Apple investigate everything, you know, that kind of discussion we were

00:48:09   having. I think at this point, it seems pretty sure that Apple is in some way investigating

00:48:15   working on a car. Or something car related. You think? Yeah, probably so. I think that's

00:48:21   obvious now so that's that but what I really wanted to talk about today was a

00:48:25   story that Mark broke this morning which was kind of rounding up and confirming

00:48:31   in the German way, "Confurman" or maybe we'll call it that, iPhone 7 design details.

00:48:39   So let me go through some of these of you, Jason. We've got a couple of different

00:48:44   pillars here of what the new iPhone is going to look like and they kind of are

00:48:49   wrapped under more advances to photography and the capabilities there and similar hardware

00:48:55   design. So let's start with the camera. There is apparently going to be camera improvements

00:49:01   throughout but on the larger phone, dual camera system. #mikewasright on that one, I guess.

00:49:10   I'm going to give this to you.

00:49:21   This is the sort of feature that would make me consider buying the big phone.

00:49:24   I think there's going to be many converts to the Plus Club come September.

00:49:30   Basically the information that we have is brighter photos, sharper photos, and will

00:49:35   allow users to zoom while retaining more clarity.

00:49:38   is what a dual lens system can do. There have been many rumors to varying

00:49:45   capabilities of what a dual lens camera can do. There are dual lens cameras out

00:49:49   there, you know, it seems like that there's ways to adjust like focus and

00:49:53   zoom and after the facts and software and some of them. I think that what we're

00:49:57   gonna see is a massive focus on the camera stuff and it is interesting that

00:50:03   it's only gonna be in the plus which will probably be renamed to the Pro

00:50:07   There are also rumors of there being three phones, right?

00:50:12   - Yeah, a Plus and a Pro.

00:50:13   That seems awfully complicated to have four current model

00:50:16   iPhone designs, but--

00:50:19   - But however they do it, there being an emphasis

00:50:22   on the naming to become the Pro,

00:50:24   which would make so much sense.

00:50:25   If they don't name it the iPhone whatever they call it,

00:50:29   7 and 7 Pro, I would be very surprised

00:50:32   because they have Pro everywhere now.

00:50:34   But anyway, and also one of the bigger things,

00:50:37   I think the thing that we'll be focusing on the most come September is similar hardware

00:50:41   design. Apparently there's going to be some noticeable tweaks, the antenna lines are going

00:50:46   to be different, maybe mimic a little bit more of the iPad design of the way the antennas

00:50:49   look, which I really like that style. Apparently Apple will be focusing on the fact that they

00:50:55   are moving away from the two year cycle of hardware design.

00:50:59   Of design, yeah. This is a, looking at the photos that have leaked that appear to be

00:51:04   real legitimate iPhone 7 builds. It looks like an iPhone 6 model with some changes.

00:51:13   It won't be like the model like the S where you have to look and see that it says S. That's

00:51:20   how you know, right? It'll look a little different. You'll be able to very quickly kind of look

00:51:23   at it and go, "Oh, this is a 7," but it's not going to be a dramatic difference. In

00:51:28   fact, I'm interested, I'm intrigued about whether it actually fits in the cases for

00:51:33   the 6th, I wonder if it might. It's going to be close, certainly it looks like. I wanted

00:51:39   to ask something, this is something that maybe I'll write a piece about this later, this

00:51:42   is how think pieces happen, by the way, is you just have that little spark where you're

00:51:46   like, "Oh, huh, I wonder." So I'll share it here and maybe I'll write something about

00:51:50   this, maybe I won't. I wonder, talking about the Plus or Pro or whatever, the big phone,

00:51:57   I wonder if the existence of the iPhone SE makes the iPhone 6 or 6s or 7

00:52:09   non-plus model a little less of an interesting product. Like if it

00:52:15   starts to kind of fade away a little bit and maybe it's still the mainstream

00:52:19   product and most people will buy it but at some point if you've got that SE

00:52:23   which does really well and fulfills people who want a smaller phone and how

00:52:27   many people had the 6 or the 6S because it was the smallest of the current model phones?

00:52:35   And it's just a thought that I'm feeling in myself, like, the more they put into the high-end

00:52:41   phone beyond just, like, you know, video image stabilization, but, like, the camera is way

00:52:46   better, I find myself looking at the smaller phone and thinking, "Eh, like, I could either

00:52:52   get an SE or I could get the big phone with the good camera, it takes the shine off of

00:52:58   the, essentially the middle size a little bit. I wonder about that.

00:53:03   Whether you think of it as a good or a bad thing, the fact that the SE will probably

00:53:07   remain with its current features is a factor, right?

00:53:12   It's true.

00:53:13   The SE would be, like for so many people, an absolute no-brainer if it got the same

00:53:17   features that the other ones were going to get, but it's going to be held back.

00:53:21   Yeah, we'll see. We'll see how dramatic the feature changes are on the 7.

00:53:27   I think that the way that the SE is sold should indicate to Apple that maybe they should be

00:53:31   refreshing that a little bit faster than they thought. I don't know, we'll see what they

00:53:35   do there.

00:53:36   I just had that thought of like, I wonder if in a year or two, the iPhone line, if it's

00:53:43   going to keep on having three sizes, or if at some point do they embrace the fact that

00:53:48   they should build a new modern design for that smaller size and have the big phone that

00:53:54   has all these amazing high-end features and that middle size, do people really want the

00:53:59   middle size or are they buying the middle size because of its price and because it's

00:54:03   the smaller of the two mainstream phones, if the SE is picking up, probably not, probably

00:54:08   that middle size is the sweet spot, but it just, it strikes me.

00:54:11   I think it is, honestly. I would be surprised if they got rid of that size because it will

00:54:16   fit so many more people and you know that there are many people with kind of

00:54:21   like average sized hands or whatever that prefer that size and but don't

00:54:27   maybe anywhere near the plus because it's plus is huge it is huge and I know

00:54:31   it is but that's what I like about it. There's more though I'm gonna actually put a link in the

00:54:37   show notes to a MacRumors photos of apparent iPhone 7 so you see the camera is

00:54:43   bigger, much bigger on the regular phone it looks like. It's like the regular phone here.

00:54:47   So there's going to be advancements probably across the two phones, but it is in the plus

00:54:52   where you're going to see significant change with the dual lens technology. There is going

00:54:57   to be a re-engineered home button that responds to pressure with haptic feedback. The mechanism

00:55:03   is similar to the force touch track pads Goemon reports. I don't know why we need this. Okay?

00:55:10   Okay?

00:55:11   Yeah, I don't know.

00:55:13   I mean, unless there is a complete change, like I see maybe that they, you know, there's

00:55:20   been a lot of rumors and I think it might have been started by John Gruber about the

00:55:23   next phone being this incredible edge-to-edge all glass, all screen thing.

00:55:28   Eliminating a moving part is probably the motivator, right?

00:55:31   That's what I would think.

00:55:32   It's like, let's start by eliminating moving parts.

00:55:34   So that they're kind of using this one as a way to move towards that, you know, and

00:55:39   this would be one of them.

00:55:40   - I mean, it's an engineering issue too.

00:55:42   It is, they have, it's a moving part, it breaks.

00:55:47   People's home buttons don't work right.

00:55:50   And sometimes some percentage of them

00:55:53   and you take that out and it's one less place

00:55:56   where there's stuff moving around.

00:55:57   There's a place for water to get in.

00:55:59   There's a place for junk to get in.

00:56:00   Just take it out, have it be a thing that you,

00:56:03   then again, haptic feedback.

00:56:05   You gotta make sure that that feedback is good enough

00:56:09   for people to feel like they've actually pressed the button.

00:56:11   - Yeah. - Because if not,

00:56:12   it can get really frustrating if you're like trying

00:56:15   to press it and nothing is happening

00:56:17   or you feel that nothing is happening.

00:56:18   So there's a challenge there.

00:56:21   They did a pretty good job with the Force Touch trackpad.

00:56:23   So maybe that's where they're going with it

00:56:25   is reduce the moving parts on the outside of the device.

00:56:30   I don't know.

00:56:32   It's an interesting idea that is the, like you said,

00:56:34   the thought of like,

00:56:35   ultimately will there be a home button-less device? I don't know.

00:56:42   And if we're taking that thinking a little bit further, when we spoke about the headphone

00:56:45   jack removal thing, we were saying, is it partly ready to get ready for the next one?

00:56:50   I know that we kind of poo-pooed that, but it seems like that the headphone--

00:56:55   It might be internally, but it's pointless from a consumer standpoint to say, "We're

00:57:01   removing this thing here because next year's gonna be great," is not something they can

00:57:03   say to anyone.

00:57:05   the removal of the headphone jack is happening and it is in favor of Bluetooth and lightning

00:57:10   as your audio method and it's going to be making room for a second speaker. Man, I cannot

00:57:17   see.

00:57:18   So that's going to be their story? That's going to be their story is now we have stereo

00:57:21   speakers on the bottom within an inch of each other and so it'll be really awesome.

00:57:26   I do not see how they spin this. This is going to be very, very interesting. Samsung had

00:57:32   an event where they introduced a new Note 7, I think it was last week or the week before,

00:57:38   and they were taking shots at Apple, which I thought was very funny. Kind of like hinting

00:57:42   at the fact that they still have a headphone jack.

00:57:44   See they should leave the headphone jack in the Plus. That would be another way that the

00:57:48   Plus gets people. It's like, we've got the room there, so we'll just leave it there,

00:57:51   but on the other phone we just don't have the room.

00:57:54   That would make me... You would not even believe the glee that I would have.

00:57:59   But that's not what he's reporting. He's reporting that they're both gonna lose the

00:58:02   headphone jack and everybody who likes wired headphones get ready to have a lightning dongle.

00:58:09   I don't know what the reason's gonna be from Apple for this. I'm still holding on to the

00:58:16   fact and I'll kind of, I was gonna lay my cards out on the table, what I think they're

00:58:19   gonna say, I think they're just gonna use the exact same reasoning they use for the

00:58:23   MacBook Air, we live a wireless life. Yep, I think, and I think, if I were to predict

00:58:27   it, I think they're gonna blow past it, it's not gonna be one of those things where it's

00:58:30   like, "We know this is controversial, but let me explain why." I think it's more likely

00:58:34   that what they're going to say is, "Look, everybody loves wireless headphones. The headphone

00:58:39   jack's 100 years old. We'll give you a dongle, but we don't think most people care about

00:58:43   this." And we got a second speaker in that space instead, which people really love because

00:58:49   so many people listen to their iPhone through the speaker that we want to--

00:58:52   You know they're going to throw a statistic at you there, right? They're going to give

00:58:55   you one of those statistics. And honestly--

00:58:57   And they'll move on.

00:58:58   You look at something like Overcast, right, like Mark has said that so many people listen on speakers.

00:59:03   I mean, I do constantly. I listen to it on the speakers way more than I listen to the headphone jack.

00:59:07   But it's... the convenience thing is interesting.

00:59:12   And it's going to be really weird how they explain it when they say,

00:59:15   "Well, I believe we have a wireless life, but we're also giving you wired lightning headphones in the box."

00:59:20   Like it's... this is going to take all of the best marketing power that Apple has to try and give this a reason.

00:59:27   it won't placate people. I'm not saying it should, but it's always interesting to hear

00:59:31   what reasons they give. Because they don't just say like, "This is it, deal with it."

00:59:35   There's always a story in it. And I'm- they should maybe try that to see what happens.

00:59:39   I'm interested to see where it goes. So some good stories from German there, I'm happy to see them back.

00:59:44   This week- this week's episode is brought to you by Mack Weldon. Jason, Mack Weldon.

00:59:53   Yes, Mack Weldon.

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00:59:55   We were talking before the show and I mentioned to Jason, "Oh, we've got Mack Weldon today.

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01:00:06   And it's because I was Mack Weldon for 15 years.

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01:02:45   Is it just the way I say it?

01:02:47   Yeah.

01:02:48   So, so you say it.

01:02:49   Mack Weldon!

01:02:50   You say Mack Weldon.

01:02:51   Mack Weldon.

01:02:52   Mack Weldon.

01:02:53   I'm putting the emphasis on the wrong syllables, right?

01:02:55   You say Mack Weldon.

01:02:56   Mack Weldon.

01:02:57   And because you don't pronounce your R's because you're English, it becomes Mack Weldon.

01:03:00   Because Mack Weldon and Mack Weldon are the same.

01:03:05   Okay.

01:03:06   Well, okay.

01:03:07   It's fine.

01:03:08   Jason, this is probably something you're very interested in, and you wrote a little piece

01:03:11   about this on Six Colors as well.

01:03:13   I did.

01:03:14   Peter Kafka, who is the media guy over at Recode. He always does great stuff like this.

01:03:21   Talking about Apple's plans to create a TV guide.

01:03:25   >> Yeah. Yeah, it's, I like it. I mean, there are TV guide apps out there. Yahoo has one.

01:03:32   People have tried this. The idea of what you want to do is, think of it this way. HBO only

01:03:40   cares about HBO stuff and Netflix only cares about Netflix stuff, but Apple as the box

01:03:47   owner plays above that level and with like the Siri search they've tried to do this where

01:03:52   they've got different providers and they're all indexed together and so when you say "show

01:03:58   me this show" it can say "oh well that shows on HBO and it's also on Netflix and it's on

01:04:03   iTunes" and then you can pick what you want to do. And so what Peter Kafka's report is

01:04:07   saying is that Applewood is talking about the idea of creating a digital TV

01:04:12   guide on Apple TV and elsewhere that would be even more expansive, that it

01:04:18   would show—and some of this is me extrapolating here from the Kafka's

01:04:22   report—but it would show things like the shows that you want to watch. You could

01:04:26   like keep track of your shows that you've watched and want to watch and

01:04:29   your watch lists and things like that, which would be really interesting

01:04:32   so that whenever you want to watch a video you can go, "Oh, let's

01:04:37   watch a video, what do I have?" and then kind of pick it, and that could be across services,

01:04:41   which I think is compelling and a place where Apple can add value even though they're not

01:04:44   a video provider themselves, more or less. And then I also was thinking that this would

01:04:50   also be a useful way to handle live streams, and I know that somebody made an announcement

01:04:56   about this, about, and I think Apple even has talked about this, the idea of what's

01:05:01   on right now, the idea that there are lots of live TV streams out there on the internet

01:05:06   some for pay and some not, and finding ways to organize that. Joe Steele wrote a nice

01:05:11   piece a while ago, I think he feels vindicated now, where he talked about, you know, people

01:05:16   do actually like to see what's on and flip around a little bit, and the internet has

01:05:21   kind of lost that, and that bringing that back might be a smart move. So it's not like

01:05:26   Apple's breaking new ground here, I think, in some ways, but I think this is a place

01:05:31   where Apple can differentiate itself and make the user experience of internet video on an

01:05:38   Apple TV or an iPhone or an iPad better. It's an interesting idea.

01:05:44   So I have some questions about this because I'm very confused about it. In the world

01:05:50   where our services are on demand, Netflix, HBO, Amazon, if they ever have an Apple TV

01:06:00   app, how do you make a TV guide out of on-demand content? Nothing is broadcasting on Netflix.

01:06:07   I think you end up, I think a wish list is the kind of thing, adding to favorites or

01:06:12   a wish list, the idea that if you're on your Apple TV or even in your iPad you have the

01:06:16   the ability to say, like, you know, I wanna,

01:06:19   most of these services, this is one of the reasons

01:06:20   why they're probably working with these services.

01:06:22   Most of these services have a way to mark things

01:06:25   as a favorite.

01:06:26   You also wanna get whatever is live,

01:06:28   or whatever is new or newly added,

01:06:31   'cause that happens on some of these platforms too.

01:06:33   But that idea, I have a to-do list in my Reminders app

01:06:36   of shows I want to watch, because I don't have a single,

01:06:40   you know, some of them are on HBO Go,

01:06:43   and some are on Netflix, and some are on Amazon,

01:06:45   and some are on Hulu.

01:06:46   And so I have a list in reminders, it's dumb.

01:06:51   And that would be a place where Apple could build

01:06:53   some nice UI to essentially give me something

01:06:57   that's sort of like my TiVo now playing list,

01:06:59   which is like, here are the shows that you've said

01:07:01   you wanna track, and here's what's new

01:07:04   if there are new episodes,

01:07:05   if you're on a service that's releasing new episodes.

01:07:08   - Because I've been thinking about this,

01:07:10   like what is the UI, how is this stuff provided?

01:07:13   because Netflix, HBO, I'm gonna keep saying it by the way,

01:07:18   'cause people love it or hate it.

01:07:20   These companies, they don't want Apple

01:07:25   to be their interface.

01:07:28   - Yeah, I had a back and forth with somebody on Twitter

01:07:30   about this that I, 'cause one of the things Kafka says

01:07:33   in his story is TV industry executives I've talked to,

01:07:37   Kafka, view this as a mixed bag.

01:07:39   They like the idea of making their individual shows

01:07:40   easier to find, but they worry that moving consumers focus

01:07:43   their individual apps to a universal guide will reduce their power to promote their other

01:07:47   shows. It's like, well, yeah, that's life. You want people to find your stuff, but you

01:07:54   actually want to control them so they can't find anybody else's stuff. Well, guess what?

01:07:58   This is one of those advantages that Apple has. Eddie Q. even talked about this in that

01:08:01   story for Fast Company. One of Apple's advantages is that Apple is thinking about, oh, it wasn't

01:08:07   Eddie Q. It was Tim Cook. He was talking about healthcare. And he said, everybody else in

01:08:10   in the health industry is worried about maximizing

01:08:13   insurance reimbursements and Apple isn't.

01:08:16   And so Apple has a perspective that's very different

01:08:17   and lets them do things that other people involved

01:08:21   in healthcare wouldn't do.

01:08:22   And I see it with the Apple TV here,

01:08:24   that this is a case where Apple really cares

01:08:26   about the user experience.

01:08:27   They're not a content provider who's trying

01:08:29   to protect their content pile.

01:08:31   And so I think I get the fear here,

01:08:36   but the way, the person who was engaging with me

01:08:39   on Twitter about this, I think his vision of this was a very different vision than my

01:08:43   vision of what this feature is. I don't view this as Apple taking over Netflix from you,

01:08:49   although they could do that. I don't, I mean, the way TiVo does it, you can save a show

01:08:55   that's on Netflix on your TiVo. But when you click on the show, you go to the Netflix app

01:09:03   see that show's page, it doesn't subsume the Netflix interface.

01:09:09   Sure, but it might stop people browsing the Netflix interface, right?

01:09:14   It might, although, I mean, again, like the story said, the pros are your shows are findable.

01:09:24   The cons are your interface that is only pushing your stuff is less visible.

01:09:31   invisible but less visible.

01:09:34   If you look at Netflix, every time they have a new original, they tell me it's something

01:09:38   I might like even if it's completely unrelated to anything I've ever seen before.

01:09:42   How are they going to continue to do that?

01:09:44   So I'm wondering like, do they just not get to do that anymore?

01:09:47   Or does the data for some of this recommended stuff come from the application?

01:09:51   So they're just going to push it on us anyway.

01:09:53   I would imagine that that is part of what they're talking about.

01:09:57   But I think that's not unreasonable to say that if Apple were to do a discovery thing

01:10:03   based on this, not just sort of what you put in your list, but like, here's some other

01:10:08   stuff, which is not guaranteed that they would, right? Apple's got their own TV stuff that

01:10:16   they promote in their TV app. And it could be as simple as like, you know, you use your

01:10:20   Netflix app to look through Netflix, but if you save something as a favorite, you can

01:10:23   browse that from our TV favorites app that we're doing. But if they did do recommendations,

01:10:29   yeah, it could be like, you know, you have a Netflix show here, so we're going to recommend

01:10:35   Netflix shows that are similar to it based on Netflix's own algorithm that they're providing.

01:10:40   I think--

01:10:41   >> Because in theory, the developers of the applications would need to provide that because

01:10:45   Apple's kind of way of doing things would not be by data collection. Like, they would

01:10:50   struggle to recommend to you.

01:10:52   Apple would have an API that they would say like, "Look, this is how this is going to work. We're going to talk to you. You're going to tell us this in this way."

01:10:58   Just like with the Siri search stuff. And they would put that together.

01:11:02   So I guess what I'm saying is, I can imagine a version of this that makes a lot of sense for customers, for people, for users, and is fine, I would say, reasonable for the content providers.

01:11:17   I can also see, yeah, I can see a version of it that the content providers would be

01:11:21   more chilly on. That said, I find it funny that a week after there was that piece about

01:11:28   how Apple is incredibly arrogant when it comes, in the Wall Street Journal, incredibly arrogant

01:11:32   when it comes to negotiating with entertainment companies and Eddie Q walks in without socks

01:11:37   and everybody else is wearing suits and everybody hates Apple because they're so arrogant. And

01:11:41   at the time, my comment about that article was, "Why is it that only Apple is being portrayed

01:11:45   it arrogant. Don't you think the TV executives or movie executives are also arrogant in a

01:11:50   different way? And that this is a clash of two people representing huge industries and

01:11:54   big businesses trying to negotiate with each other? But you know, that story was obviously

01:11:59   fed from one side.

01:12:01   And now this one is.

01:12:04   So this story, yes, this story I look at it and say, these are the people who were saying

01:12:09   Apple was arrogant. And I'm not saying Apple doesn't act arrogantly, they do. But this

01:12:14   is a case where Apple is saying, "Hey, we want to make this better for the users," and

01:12:20   the TV industry is like, "Oh, no, we don't want to make things more convenient. We want

01:12:23   to lock them into our platform and pretend like there's no other platforms out there."

01:12:27   And that's where you get bad user experience where all of these things are siloed and it's

01:12:33   very difficult to do anything to integrate them, even though users would like the services

01:12:38   they subscribe to to all be integrated together so that it was a simpler experience. And Apple

01:12:44   has gone a step with the Siri search on Apple TV. So I feel like they're headed down the

01:12:48   path. I don't know where this Peter Kafka story is originated. It seems to be Apple

01:12:54   itself. But this is a case, it's an interesting case where I would think there's a way for

01:13:01   this to make sense that TV providers would be happy about because in the end, they're

01:13:06   the ones charging for their content and the content without that content there, you know,

01:13:12   it doesn't show up if you don't pay for the content. So I don't know. It's an interesting

01:13:16   idea. What I like about it is it allows Apple to put its own spin on this for its users

01:13:21   to differentiate the Apple TV and the iPhone and the iPad without Apple having to get into

01:13:27   the, you know, we're launching our own streaming service business.

01:13:30   I wonder how this would look from a UI perspective. Would this be an application? Would this be

01:13:35   a brand new view in Apple TV that you see. One of the other things is it's funny to me

01:13:42   how Apple would potentially be creating a UI view or an application that kind of devalues

01:13:49   the other applications.

01:13:50   Yeah, it's a, well, I mean, it depends on how they do it. I imagine it would be more

01:13:55   like a launcher into those applications.

01:13:57   But that removes a lot of the other views, right? Like it just takes you straight to

01:14:02   play. So I'm wondering how that's gonna play out and how that will look and will this be

01:14:08   an app that Apple makes that you go and download or is this just like Apple TV view like you

01:14:15   see this first and then maybe you press the home button to go to the apps but this is

01:14:18   like your main view like when you turn on your television.

01:14:21   I'd imagine it would be integrated and not an app that you would download whether it

01:14:25   would be an app or something that you kick off from the UI in a different way or via

01:14:29   Siri or something like that? Is it just Siri show me what's on TV right now? Or show me

01:14:36   what's on my wish list? Or is there sort of like a to-do list kind of a guide, live guide

01:14:44   app thing? I don't know. It's an interesting idea.

01:14:47   Where does the data come from? Will I be shown what's happening in stuff that I don't subscribe

01:14:52   to? Will I then need to pay for every individual feed and application to get all of this stuff?

01:14:59   Like, I'm really wondering how this is gonna look, and also, if this was Apple's idea,

01:15:03   this is what the Apple TV should have always been.

01:15:07   Yeah, I think this is the...

01:15:10   Like I said, I think the Siri stuff shows that this is sort of the path they have wanted

01:15:15   to go down, the universal search in Siri, and this is another step down there.

01:15:20   And if I had to guess, the Recode story exists because Apple is meeting resistance and is

01:15:25   frustrated because this seems to make a lot of sense and be something that benefits everybody

01:15:31   and yet they are running into resistance from people who are like basically we don't want

01:15:35   to deal with Apple. Sometimes I wonder if the negotiations between the entertainment

01:15:40   industry and Apple are literally like Apple says here's a deal that's pretty good but

01:15:45   we expect you to counter offer and because that's a reasonable thing to do it's obviously

01:15:50   our first deal it's going to be weighted toward us but you're going to counter and it's going

01:15:53   to be fine." And then the other side says, "They're magicians, don't believe anything

01:15:57   they say! Whatever looks good is actually bad! Run away!" I kind of think that that

01:16:02   maybe is how Hollywood views Apple at this point. It's like they just don't believe that

01:16:06   they aren't going to screw it up if they agree to anything Apple wants, so just say no. But

01:16:11   Apple finds a way to do things here and there, the Universal Search. I think Universal Search

01:16:16   is really great for HBO, and it's great for Netflix, and it's great for Apple, but I think

01:16:21   it's great for everybody because if you want to find a movie or a show, it basically brings

01:16:25   in competition. That's the part that bugs me about that statement that they view it

01:16:31   as a mixed bag because what they're really saying there is we are afraid to compete with

01:16:37   the other services on a level platform. Our game plan is really predicated on the fact

01:16:45   you're going to stay in the HBO app and never leave it, which is delusional. But yes, I

01:16:53   can see why you would want to not have to compete with anybody and just live on your

01:16:56   own. I totally get it. It's just delusional. So we'll see what happens. But I do think

01:17:02   Apple's success with iTunes has made it difficult for them to make deals with the

01:17:06   entertainment industry, and not for rational reasons. Because I think what Apple, like

01:17:12   Like I said, I can see, if I was an entertainment company, which I am not, I am a person, I

01:17:17   would look at this...

01:17:18   Kind of an entertainment company though.

01:17:19   Yeah, sure.

01:17:20   Whatever.

01:17:21   I would look at this and say, "There's a deal to be made here.

01:17:24   This makes sense.

01:17:25   I see why we could make a deal here that would be good for us."

01:17:27   And yes, we would have to give some things up, but we would also gain in return this

01:17:32   even more of this universal access on their platform.

01:17:36   So let's talk about it.

01:17:37   Also, Apple TV is not the dominant video platform, nor is it likely to be.

01:17:41   And so why not try this out? Maybe we'll learn some things. Maybe this will give us a path

01:17:46   forward with other box providers or whatever. So I don't know. That's the thing that strikes

01:17:53   me as funny. At least they think of it as a mixed bag and not just completely like a

01:17:57   disaster. Because yeah, sure, it's a mixed bag. That's why you negotiate.

01:18:01   I want to just float madcap theory as I like to do. So when we look at this, we're like,

01:18:08   This seems like the way the Apple TV should be, right?

01:18:10   This seems like the natural thing that you would do,

01:18:12   you would have some kind of unified view, right?

01:18:15   Like you look at it like this should have been the Apple TV

01:18:18   and all the reports suggest it was supposed to be, right?

01:18:22   It was supposed to be a streaming service

01:18:23   but they didn't do it.

01:18:24   It reminds me of the watch.

01:18:26   WatchOS 3 is what we're saying the watch should have been.

01:18:31   So if you look at the way that the watch works

01:18:33   and how people use it,

01:18:34   WatchOS 3 seems to be what we wanted from one and two

01:18:37   but didn't get. So this says to me one of two potential things. Apple is either A) more

01:18:45   willing to change tack now when they're getting feedback or they're more willing to like completely

01:18:51   overhaul something or go in a completely different direction after it's been released or B) they're

01:18:56   releasing products too early before they've actually finished.

01:19:00   It's, uh, I feel like it's the first of those, which is--

01:19:05   I think it's a little accolomé, a little accolomé bean.

01:19:08   I think that they should have released the Apple TV when it was ready and not tried to

01:19:15   attach it to, like, a TV service or something that didn't happen.

01:19:18   Because flat out, that product was not ready when it shipped.

01:19:21   Well, that's true.

01:19:22   Right?

01:19:23   There was so much stuff it just didn't do.

01:19:24   Well, I was actually referring to the fact that they could have gotten it ready and shipped

01:19:28   it a year earlier, and instead they put it on the shelf while they tried to make and

01:19:31   failed to make the deals, and then they had to get it and dust it off, and then it wasn't

01:19:34   ready because they had to dust it off, it was too dusty, and they shipped a dusty product

01:19:38   and then had to fix it. But yeah, I think changing tack, in some ways that's just how

01:19:43   the world works these days is that they have to do it. I would imagine that a lot of this

01:19:47   discussion, the universal search and the stuff that they're talking about now is based on

01:19:52   the idea that Apple originally thought that they were going to be able to do a TV service,

01:19:55   right and get and do a bundle and all that and it turned out to be way too complicated

01:19:59   and so now it's almost like what Apple saying is okay tell you what you guys can figure this out

01:20:03   right you can you can sell everything a la carte you can work with services like sling you know or

01:20:10   whatever to bundle things together into fat bundles into skinny bundles whatever we're

01:20:16   obviously not going to be able to do that so what we're going to do is we're going to back up a step

01:20:20   and we're going to index the stuff that you've got for whoever is paying for whatever and be the way

01:20:25   for your users to get at your content and whatever else they're subscribing to.

01:20:30   And that's a good plan B, I think, the idea that Apple's not

01:20:35   providing that for them, so instead you're going to get it from, you know,

01:20:40   you're going to get a little over here and a little over there and we will be

01:20:42   the ones who put it together in one place. And that's a better

01:20:45   role for Apple. I hope so, but I'm pleased to see that there's more going on here

01:20:50   and I'm very interested to see how and if they pull this one off. This might be one

01:20:55   of those things where they're struggling so much with the deals that they're kind

01:20:59   of going public leaky with it to try and push people. We'll see. We'll see. Do you

01:21:04   want this though? You want this? The theory of it?

01:21:07   Yeah, I like this a lot. I think, I mean, I see Apple's benefit. For me, the big challenge

01:21:14   is I like some stuff that's on Amazon that's not on the platform because Amazon. But I

01:21:19   I like the idea of compiling a master list of the shows you want. Because this is a thing,

01:21:26   it's like as great as the disruption has been with streaming and things like that, it does

01:21:31   make it harder to keep track. Like I said, I make a to-do list. I don't have what I had

01:21:38   when I had just the DVR list of here's what was recorded, because I have things that I've

01:21:42   recorded and things on Netflix and things on Hulu and things on Amazon and things on

01:21:46   HBO Go, and it gets complicated. So I think ways of making it simple, and then to Joe

01:21:53   Steele's point in that piece that he wrote, things like "What's on? Show me what's live."

01:22:00   Linear TV is going away, and yet there is this sort of desire, I think, in people for

01:22:05   the idea of sort of surfing content to see what's out there, and TV services don't do

01:22:10   a great job of that now. And so I like doing more with that idea of "What's on right now?"

01:22:15   if it's literally like here's a YouTube, what's on a YouTube channel and here's what's on ESPN

01:22:21   3 and you know and just stuff like that I think that's all more ways of floating that

01:22:27   stuff out there rather than having to go to a you know a particular app a particular channel

01:22:32   in an app a particular list in that channel and then start to play it the the the easier

01:22:38   you can make all of that I think the better the video experience is.

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01:24:57   support of this show and Relay FM. Pepperoni Pineapple continues to sweep

01:25:04   the globe. It's true, we get more about it every day. I did see somebody this week who

01:25:09   was recommending that, I think, who was it, was it maybe Tiffany Armit, was recommending

01:25:14   that somebody try it with ham instead of pepperoni. And I was like, wait a second, you're just

01:25:17   going back to the Hawaiian? Yeah. That's where this all started. This is the better Hawaiian.

01:25:22   It's an upgraded Hawaiian, if you will. We don't go simple here. I mean, I've seen people

01:25:26   add bacon, that's fine, but don't take away the pepperoni. The point is the pepperoni

01:25:30   and the pineapple together. Somebody pointed out that they liked it with jalapeno on it.

01:25:35   I will say that that is an addition that I make sometimes. Sometimes. Very rarely. But

01:25:40   it adds a little spice. If you've got some pepperoni that's not—the turkey pepperoni

01:25:43   I use at home, because my wife doesn't eat pork, is not as spicy, so sometimes I'll

01:25:48   add a little jalapeno here and there, just to add some spice back in. Just a little option.

01:25:54   But the core—pepperoni pineapple is the core. Just, let's be clear. So spread the

01:25:59   word. It is time for Ask Upgrade. Yes. I was waiting for some lasers then and

01:26:04   the game the lasers misfired. Matthew asked in approximately two years I'd like

01:26:10   to switch to iPad Pro only what should I do now to ensure a smooth transition? The

01:26:14   thing that really kind of pricked my ears to this is why the specific timeline

01:26:19   Matthew? Why in approximately two years? Why not do it now? Why not do it in six

01:26:23   years? Who knows? But if I was gonna give you some tips as to starting this

01:26:28   transition. One I think two years is probably too long anyway so I would try

01:26:32   and maybe shorten that down a bit or maybe start this process a little bit

01:26:35   later but start using your iPad as much as you can right now. Find the apps that

01:26:40   you like, find the apps that you need to do the weird thing that you do on your

01:26:44   Mac which takes two applications on iOS but is perfectly fine and lovely to use

01:26:49   Casey List don't come at me I will fight you. Find where those tricky parts are

01:26:54   There are solutions for basically all of those problems I've found

01:26:58   barring some like crazy stuff, right, but I don't do a lot of insane

01:27:02   Tricky hacky Apple script II stuff for all of the main problems. I find ways around them. Sometimes they take longer

01:27:10   Sometimes they're faster. Sometimes they're more fun to solve those problems on iOS I find

01:27:15   Work with that and but the other thing is iOS will probably look quite different on the iPad in two years time

01:27:23   So just jump in now and see how far you can go. It might not be there for you yet

01:27:28   Maybe you do need to wait a little bit longer

01:27:30   Like I am not comfortable to record podcasts on my iPad and I'm perfectly okay with that

01:27:35   I have a dedicated work machine to record and edit shows everything else I do on my iPads and that makes me happy

01:27:42   I feel like I live the iPad life that way but you've got to just find where you want to be with these things and

01:27:49   Don't just go iPad Pro only for the sake of it.

01:27:51   Hopefully you have a really good reason

01:27:53   that you want to do that.

01:27:54   And honestly, that reason, if you feel this way now,

01:27:57   should be good enough to help you make the switch now.

01:28:00   So try it.

01:28:01   - Yeah, only thing I would add is, yes,

01:28:04   it's the idea of starting to use it for your work

01:28:06   and then over time finding that you like it

01:28:09   and then you want to use it more.

01:28:10   Use cloud services for your files.

01:28:12   So make sure if you're using an app

01:28:14   that you can open the files from that app on the iPad

01:28:17   and in that app's equivalent or something that's compatible

01:28:20   and try iCloud drive or Dropbox

01:28:23   or some other cloud service provider

01:28:26   and just start using it and see what the issues are

01:28:30   and you'll know.

01:28:31   I mean, it's not a forced march, right?

01:28:34   It's you kind of make the transition over time

01:28:37   and find your comfort level.

01:28:39   And I still use both platforms, I'm team both.

01:28:42   But I like this weekend, I've gone down this path enough

01:28:46   this weekend I was able to edit and post, and not for the first time, but this weekend I realized

01:28:52   that we were leaving for a long weekend before I had even edited the incomparable and so I just

01:28:56   took it with me on my iPad and it was fine. I edited it and posted it from the road and it was all good.

01:29:02   I'm not like for an argument here but whilst you say that you're a team both, I say you're team iPad

01:29:06   for that reason. It's just my distinction is like I consider myself team iPad but I use my Mac

01:29:13   all the time for this stuff. But you're even further down that road than me because you can

01:29:18   and will willingly edit your very popular show on your iPad, which is something I am still a little

01:29:25   bit too nervous to do. I have done it. I have played around with it. But you, I've seen you do

01:29:29   it. So I say you are Team iPad, my friend. I don't think so because, you know, there are

01:29:35   tools that I can't... depends on how you define it. But there are things that I don't want to do

01:29:40   on my iPad if I could choose.

01:29:43   - I'm the same though, right?

01:29:44   I'm the same, but I think people would class me

01:29:46   as Team iPad now.

01:29:47   So I think that we are simpatico here, my friend.

01:29:50   - All right, but if we are Team iPad,

01:29:52   we are Team iPad with a Mac that we use for some work,

01:29:54   and that is not iPad Pro only, right?

01:29:58   - What if we call it a Max-tirisk?

01:30:01   Team iPad with a Max-tirisk, right?

01:30:04   - I don't know what that is.

01:30:05   Okay, next question.

01:30:07   (laughing)

01:30:09   There was something else I wanted to say but oh if you are looking to try and jump onto

01:30:14   the iPad Pro and the iPad and the iOS lifestyle and you haven't yet subscribed to Canvas on

01:30:18   relay FM you should do that because they will help you. They help me every two weeks. I

01:30:24   learn things that I need to know and didn't know. So go check it out. Chris asks does

01:30:28   iOS 10 have music as a split screen app? Yes it does and it is a welcome addition by me.

01:30:34   I'm kind of crazy that it wasn't done until now, but they do have that.

01:30:39   I had an upload this weekend for the podcast that I was editing.

01:30:42   I had to upload it, and I actually used Dropbox as an intermediary to get it on.

01:30:46   It's a long—one of these days I'll detail my iPad production workflow, but Dropbox doesn't

01:30:54   do split screen.

01:30:57   And so I spent—and the hotel internet was slow, so it took me about ten minutes to upload

01:31:01   this file from Dropbox.

01:31:04   And so I was using SlideOver the entire time.

01:31:09   Oh my god, it's the worst.

01:31:11   It's great that it's there, but I've got this huge iPad screen and I'm using this little

01:31:16   narrow corner while Dropbox slowly uploads in the background.

01:31:20   But I did it.

01:31:21   I was in Slack, I was in Twitterific, I was in Safari, in SlideOver for about 10 minutes.

01:31:26   So Dropbox is one app which I mainly give a pass to with this because the majority of

01:31:35   the time I'm not in the Dropbox app when I'm using Dropbox, right? Like I'm using document

01:31:40   pickers or uploads and stuff so it kind of gets forgotten about. But yes, it's ridiculous

01:31:44   that it isn't split screen. But I forget that it isn't. Where like for something like Google

01:31:49   Docs there's nothing you can do. You can't even use Google Docs in a web browser on iOS,

01:31:53   right like it forces you to the app where Dropbox it has its view into so

01:31:57   many applications that I kind of do forget that it's not split screen yeah I

01:32:02   agree with you though that it definitely should be and I really hope that they're

01:32:06   working on that I've got this question comes from Dave and I'm gonna need your

01:32:10   help on this Jason because okay this is very different here I'm here to help the

01:32:15   move of carriers away from subsidies is rarely mentioned in iPhone sales

01:32:19   discussions? Is this not a big factor? Don't most people now see carriers paying them not

01:32:25   to upgrade their phone every two years?

01:32:28   So, I think we might have touched on this last week, but it's definitely something that

01:32:33   came up in the Apple analyst call. And what I would say is they asked about this and Tim

01:32:43   Cook said, "We don't know because there are replacement plans that a lot of people are

01:32:49   using, where they finance because people don't want to actually spend, you know, six, seven

01:32:53   hundred dollars on a phone, where they do financing over time. And at the end of that

01:32:58   time, yes, your phone bill goes down, but then you've also got an old phone. And so

01:33:02   Apple's got one where you get a new phone every year. And phone companies have them

01:33:07   at two years or at a year and a half or at three years or at two and a half years. There

01:33:12   are a lot of different ones out there. Plus, people who want to can just buy the phone

01:33:16   and see the lower price on their bill, and that's something that they can do too. So

01:33:20   this is the question, is what will that mean? My gut feeling is that I think it's going

01:33:28   to come out in the wash. I think it's not going to make a big difference in terms of

01:33:30   the buying cycle because for the people who say, "Oh, I can go, I'm going to keep my two-year-old

01:33:36   phone and hold out another year," for every one of those, how many people are saying,

01:33:43   saying, "Oh, this is awesome. I can just pay this monthly price to Apple and I get the

01:33:47   new iPhone every year," instead of having to wait on every other year. And I think you're

01:33:54   going to see a diversity of choices, people choosing a year and two years and three years.

01:33:59   There are always going to be people who, I think it's great for people who get to the

01:34:02   end of their two-year cycle and still are happy with their phone, that they don't feel

01:34:06   the pressure to upgrade because they might as well. They're paying essentially that subsidy.

01:34:11   in the old method, your bill doesn't go down after two years. So you better just get a

01:34:16   new phone because they're charging you anyway. You might as well get the latest phone. And

01:34:20   that's not true anymore. With this new system, your bill goes down because your subsidy is

01:34:24   not there. It's now a payment for a phone and has a term and it ends, which is way better.

01:34:31   So it's possible, and this is mostly in the US where subsidies have been a huge thing,

01:34:36   But I feel like in the long run, because these phones are fairly pricey when you're just

01:34:41   buying them, and so many people are used to not spending a big amount of money for a phone

01:34:48   because it has been subsidized, you're going to see people go on these plans, and the plans

01:34:52   are going to have different terms.

01:34:53   And I do think for something like the iPhone, where people really love the iPhone and always

01:34:56   want the new iPhone, I think that plan where you get a new iPhone every year is going to

01:35:00   have a lot of appeal.

01:35:02   So that's my take on it.

01:35:04   But we'll see.

01:35:05   It could change.

01:35:06   whether the average life of an iPhone in the buying cycle is going to be two years or three years or

01:35:13   You know one year

01:35:16   But my guess is that it won't be that much different than it is now

01:35:19   we had two questions this week on the idea of an Apple phone and

01:35:24   Lucas started off with if Apple were to have introduced the iPhone now imagine

01:35:30   There was no iPhone and now there was an iPhone

01:35:32   Do you think that they would have called it Apple phone instead of iPhone?

01:35:35   I think yes, because I think Apple's clearly moving away from the eye branding with all their new products.

01:35:40   So this goes on to Elon's question saying that rumors are saying that the iPhone 8

01:35:46   So the next iPhone will be a huge visual change

01:35:49   Could this be the time to change the name to Apple phone after also being 10 years?

01:35:54   I have my feelings about this. I think that the change to Apple phone is inevitable

01:36:00   But I don't know when I mean iPhone has such a

01:36:04   Big kind of brand recognition at this point

01:36:08   That's one thing. I think so many people know that the iPhone comes from Apple though that if they changed it to Apple phone

01:36:15   I think it would pick up that

01:36:17   Branding almost immediately. I think that honestly I don't think it would skip too much of a beat

01:36:23   But I think people will just accept it that some people will continue to call it the iPhone

01:36:28   regardless, like people still call it the iWatch.

01:36:31   And I think that they would just move along

01:36:33   and it would be Apple phone now and it would be done with.

01:36:35   I think people would just get that,

01:36:36   but that's just my view on it.

01:36:38   I know there'd be many people that disagree.

01:36:39   I think it's gonna happen at some point.

01:36:41   I think it's gonna happen at some point.

01:36:43   I think this would be a point to do it.

01:36:46   I don't think they will do it,

01:36:47   but this could be the point.

01:36:49   - Yeah, it's not gonna happen.

01:36:52   - I don't think ever.

01:36:54   - In the fullness of time, anything is possible,

01:36:56   but they have iOS, an iPhone, an iPad.

01:37:01   It has come to be this product category for them.

01:37:04   And they're essentially beating it out

01:37:07   of every other part of it.

01:37:09   I mean, iTunes still exists, right?

01:37:10   And I think it's got huge name recognition.

01:37:15   It's their most popular product.

01:37:17   There's no reason to get rid of it.

01:37:19   I think the idea, what Apple's really moving away from

01:37:22   isn't the letter I, it's the idea that every Apple product

01:37:25   is is badged with an eye because the feeling there is Apple is such a strong brand that

01:37:30   it's more powerful to call something Apple TV than ITV. And I think that they're right

01:37:34   about that. But I think the iPhone is the exception to that proves the rule. The iPhone

01:37:40   is what is at this point the the root of it because the iPad or the iPod is floating away

01:37:46   into history. So I think it's very unlikely that this will happen. Could it happen? Sure.

01:37:52   It could happen at any point. Apple's doing all sorts of things that change things up,

01:37:55   but I have a hard time seeing how all of their brand investment in iPhone and iPad and iOS

01:38:02   is benefited by being Apple phone and Apple pad and Apple OS. So, uh, I think not.

01:38:10   I mean, when I say this, like I think many people believe that I feel it's going to happen

01:38:16   almost imminently. I don't think that, like I'm saying that the change over after 10 years

01:38:21   could be a point where you would do it but I don't think they will do it. I think that

01:38:25   – I agree – when they do change this name, in my opinion, it won't be ApplePhone because

01:38:31   it will be the product that replaces it. And I don't think it will be called somethingphone

01:38:35   anymore. Like, I'm thinking this is a long time in the future.

01:38:38   Yeah. Right, like I don't think that just one day

01:38:40   they have the next iPhone and then that next iPhone is called ApplePhone. I just think

01:38:45   that like, that this name won't last forever. Okay, well we agree on that.

01:38:51   We agree on that. I would buy into that, which is, what you're saying is, the iPhone won't

01:38:57   ever change its name to Apple phone, but one day there will not be an iPhone.

01:39:00   Yeah, and I think it will be, I don't even think we'll call it a phone anymore. Like,

01:39:05   this is maybe five years away. But I think that I, the iPhone name, that name, the "I"

01:39:14   will die at some point. I, comma, will die. Not me, the I. Not you personally. No, I never

01:39:22   will. iPhone, iPad, iOS, that is going to go away and I think it will be replaced

01:39:29   with something, most likely Apple something. But who knows? I think, yeah, I think

01:39:36   that's in the distant future. And in an outline in the chatroom wants to know if

01:39:41   upgrade will still be running in the 2020s. I think we've got to, right? We've got to see the

01:39:44   car thing through. I have no reason of wanting to close the show now. I think about this

01:39:49   sometimes, like why would this show ever end? And I look at something like MacBreak Weekly,

01:39:53   which has been going for what, five years now? I'm never letting you go, Jason.

01:39:57   We'll see. I mean, it would be my--

01:40:00   We'll see.

01:40:01   We'll see. We'll see, Myke. The future has promised to know. No, I've said it before,

01:40:06   I would prefer to be doing what I'm doing now for the rest of my career. I think the

01:40:10   The only thing that would preclude this is if I ended up deciding to not be an independent

01:40:15   worker anymore and work for somebody who wanted all of my time and precluded me from doing

01:40:22   podcasting or tech podcasting or something like that.

01:40:25   That's not the plan.

01:40:27   That's not my intent at all.

01:40:28   I want to provide some very important follow up.

01:40:31   MacBreak Weekly is 10 years old now.

01:40:34   Like, this week?

01:40:37   honestly this Friday is MacBreak Weekly's 10th anniversary so I just want to say

01:40:42   congratulations to the host of MacBreak Weekly. One of my very first podcasts. Do you remember

01:40:49   when that guy Merlin Mann was on MacBreak Weekly? I do remember that. I remember we did some,

01:40:55   I was in some videos that were the MacBreak videos. I remember those fondly, the HD videos

01:41:02   which my computer could barely play.

01:41:05   - Yep, those are the ones.

01:41:06   - Beautiful times.

01:41:07   Congratulations to Leo and to the current hosts

01:41:12   of MacBreakWeekly.

01:41:13   I think Leo's probably the only one.

01:41:14   I know Andy came on relatively soon

01:41:17   and he's been there most of the time.

01:41:18   And now Renee has joined the ranks.

01:41:20   And I know you've been on the show a bunch of times.

01:41:22   I was so happy when I was on the show that time.

01:41:25   So yeah, congratulations to MacBreakWeekly.

01:41:28   And I look forward to in about eight years time

01:41:31   when people say that about us Jason. Ah very nice. When we'll be recording car casts every week.

01:41:38   Sure the Apple car will be a fantastic podcast studio. Which just sounds isolated. It'll have

01:41:46   yeah it'll have sound isolation and noise cancelling and there'll be a lecture input.

01:41:49   So they'll be really quiet anyway. Exactly and uh and a fast internet connection and we will just be

01:41:55   uh able to talk and and use our arms to gesticulate and things like that because

01:41:59   the cars driving itself anyway.

01:42:02   And we'll probably be broadcasting in VR then anyway, so.

01:42:06   Right, it'll be a mobile VR video studio as we travel

01:42:11   in our silk jackets and navy jumpsuits, which will be the fashion at the time.

01:42:19   Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of Upgrade.

01:42:22   If you'd like to find our show notes for this week, head on over to relay.fm/upgrade/101.

01:42:28   If you have any questions, follow up or anything like that for us.

01:42:31   Always remember to use the hashtag #askupgrade because we find it all, we collect it up and

01:42:36   we answer your questions every single week.

01:42:40   Thanks again to our sponsors, the great folk over at Hover, the lovely people at Mac, Weldon

01:42:47   and Eero.

01:42:48   Thank you so much for Jason, to you for joining me as you do every time.

01:42:53   And even when I'm not here, you're always here.

01:42:56   always here Jason and I appreciate that. Jason is also always at SixColors.com and he is

01:43:01   on Twitter @JSnell and he hosts many other shows at The Incomparable and a selection

01:43:06   at Relay FM as well including the newly launched Free Agents with David Sparks with Max Sparky.

01:43:12   Thank you for listening as always I am Matt Dyemike, I am YKE, we do record this show

01:43:16   live you should head over to relay.fm/live we have a schedule page there so you can come

01:43:21   and hang out in the chatroom if you so desire. We'll be back next week. We'll be live and

01:43:27   in person next week as we celebrate Relay FM's second anniversary.

01:43:31   Yes we will. But until then, goodbye everybody! Say goodbye Myke Hurley.

01:43:33   Goodbye Myke Hurley!

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