94: Users Use Computers


00:00:00   (upbeat music)

00:00:02   - From Relay FM, this is Upgrade, episode number 94.

00:00:12   Today's show is brought to you by PDF/PEM

00:00:15   from Smile, Pingdom, and Ministry of Supply.

00:00:18   My name is Myke Hurley, and I am joined now

00:00:20   with an ocean separating us by Jason Snell.

00:00:23   - Oh, it's so sad when you put it that way.

00:00:25   We were just across the table from one another last week,

00:00:29   And now here we are back in our places.

00:00:32   I'm back in my garage office

00:00:34   and you are back in your office in London.

00:00:36   - Yeah, I spent time in the garage office as well,

00:00:38   didn't I?

00:00:39   - You did.

00:00:40   Did you leave something?

00:00:41   Is there something taped under my chair?

00:00:43   - Don't look.

00:00:44   - Is there a mouse under there?

00:00:45   - Don't look.

00:00:45   - Okay.

00:00:46   - That's a present from me.

00:00:47   - All right.

00:00:48   - Wow, what a week, huh?

00:00:49   So it's been a week since the keynote.

00:00:52   - Big week.

00:00:53   - Where me and you are running around San Francisco

00:00:55   finding an Airbnb to record in.

00:00:58   Mm-hmm.

00:00:59   But what, yeah, then since then, I guess we should maybe catch up, right, about some of

00:01:03   the stuff that's happened in between last week's episode of Upgrade and this week.

00:01:07   'Cause as we say on the show, we like to be first, you know, so...

00:01:10   Yes.

00:01:11   That episode was recorded as soon as we could.

00:01:14   I've had, throughout the week, I've had many people questioning our scoring methods for

00:01:19   the draft.

00:01:21   But it doesn't matter how it's scored, I always win.

00:01:24   Exactly.

00:01:25   That's exactly, you made the point that I was going to make, which is we can discuss

00:01:29   scoring and perhaps if we do this again, uh, we should determine what the scoring system

00:01:34   is in case there's a controversy.

00:01:36   We will learn from our previous draft, right?

00:01:39   But it was not a problem this time.

00:01:42   It wasn't close, so, you know, so there we go.

00:01:46   One thing that we both participated in was the very first RelayCon WWDC.

00:01:52   That was a fun evening.

00:01:53   So if you want to go and hear that, we had some surprises in store, which they're not

00:01:58   really secret anymore.

00:02:00   So there was, we set out a few panels.

00:02:03   We had myself, Federico and Steven, who connected at the beginning.

00:02:08   Then we did a live robot or not, which was an incredible amount of fun to be sitting

00:02:14   in between the two of you, throwing in my thoughts, which nobody wanted.

00:02:20   That led to a great moment though where you're like, "This is the point where I get to interject

00:02:25   into this conversation with questions and skepticism."

00:02:28   That was really funny.

00:02:29   Yeah, that was amusing.

00:02:30   I like that.

00:02:31   I got to do what everybody wants to do, which is to shout at Jon for being crazy.

00:02:37   I got to do it.

00:02:40   So you can go through that.

00:02:41   And then Serenity joined us and we had more chats about iOS and watchOS.

00:02:46   And then kind of my big surprise, my one more thing is I convinced our good friend Mr. CGP

00:02:52   Grey to come to San Francisco to participate in RelayCon.

00:02:56   That was so much fun for me to do that.

00:02:57   And he did, and in person he does not look like a robot.

00:03:01   No he doesn't.

00:03:02   Well, unless he was wearing his person skin that day.

00:03:06   Ah, I see, I see.

00:03:07   Yeah, so it's all just a facade.

00:03:10   So it's like four podcast episodes in about 70 minutes.

00:03:16   That's an episode.

00:03:18   It's packed.

00:03:19   It is action packed.

00:03:21   And I enjoyed it a lot and I think everybody else did.

00:03:24   We've had great response from the episode so far.

00:03:26   So this is just the first.

00:03:28   We will be doing RelayCon WWDC next year and we're hoping to have a much larger audience

00:03:35   as well.

00:03:36   So that's something to look out for.

00:03:39   Wow.

00:03:40   venue is always tricky for that because it's very expensive and it's hard to find a place

00:03:44   to have it. And this was a small one and you guys took the risk when you were putting it

00:03:49   together because you had to put down a deposit, right? Before we even knew for sure that that

00:03:53   was the week, you had to put down a deposit. And there was a question of like, are people

00:03:58   going to show up? Will people want to come? And it turns out, of course, that it sold

00:04:03   out almost immediately and there were a lot of people who were wanting to come and couldn't

00:04:07   and that's great so hopefully that will inform next year.

00:04:10   - Yep, it will be more big San Francisco deposits

00:04:14   made in a year's time.

00:04:15   - Oh boy.

00:04:16   - They are big deposits, let me tell you.

00:04:19   - They are, they are.

00:04:20   That's how we do it here.

00:04:21   - Thanks to our sponsors as well.

00:04:23   - Yeah, yeah, seriously.

00:04:26   - Me and Steven also participated in the new tradition

00:04:29   of WWDC keynote clockwise.

00:04:34   So we've done this like three or four years in a row now,

00:04:37   I think me and Steven have been your guests

00:04:39   during WWDC week.

00:04:40   - Yeah, I mean, it's fun when a relay podcast

00:04:45   can have the found that has two guests,

00:04:47   lots to fill can have the founders of the network on.

00:04:49   And when we're all together at an event,

00:04:52   it's kind of a fun thing to do.

00:04:53   And you guys know how the format works and all of that.

00:04:56   So that's useful.

00:04:57   - We're good at watching the clock, me and Steven.

00:04:59   We're very good at that.

00:05:00   - We were doing a lot of watching the clock last week.

00:05:04   sometimes on clockwise and sometimes not.

00:05:07   - Clock is always watched.

00:05:09   - Yeah, sure, exactly.

00:05:10   And this extends your lead in the relay era of clockwise

00:05:15   as the most frequent guest.

00:05:18   - I'm never gonna give it up.

00:05:20   - But you're not quite at the level of the all time lead.

00:05:23   So you've still got some work to do there.

00:05:25   - Okay, well, I'll take that.

00:05:27   I'll take that half of a--

00:05:29   - But 11 appearances for you.

00:05:31   So good job.

00:05:32   is is basically because whenever you do a live clockwise i tend to be in

00:05:36   attendance but i think

00:05:37   i just had to be there all the time so i just you just like right you

00:05:41   come with me

00:05:42   look was that's like you and i got you in a rich year they are my go-to

00:05:45   clockwise uh...

00:05:46   road people

00:05:48   and we also attended the talk show

00:05:51   uh... the last summer

00:05:52   social we actually sat next to each other which was nice

00:05:55   uh... and we were laughing and uh... making little snarky comments throughout

00:06:00   the episode, which I think many people want to do. That was a lot of fun. We learned some

00:06:05   interesting things, I think, here.

00:06:07   We really did, yeah.

00:06:08   And we're going to get into probably, I think, the most interesting a little later on.

00:06:12   And it's good that now the video is posted and I more did a transcript of the conversation.

00:06:18   So there are ways for people who weren't there to dig in and see what was, you know, what

00:06:23   these little tidbits were, where especially like Craig Federighi, you know, not being

00:06:29   a technical guy and not a marketing guy, he said some stuff that probably, you know, Apple's

00:06:33   marketing group as represented by Phil Schiller sitting right next to him might have said,

00:06:38   why give that level of detail? But speaking to a developer audience, I think he felt like

00:06:43   comfortable going into a little more detail and it was really great stuff, great little

00:06:48   tidbits.

00:06:50   This actually further enforces my belief that Federighi is not trusted to be on his own

00:06:58   in these things?

00:07:00   Maybe not, maybe not. I mean, that may be the reason it's like, well, could we have

00:07:04   Craig this year? And Apple's response perhaps to Gruber was,

00:07:08   "You can have Craig AND Phil."

00:07:11   Because if you think about it,

00:07:12   every time Federighi has been on the talk show, somebody else is with him,

00:07:17   right? So Q is with him. I think when they did the Swift thing, they had somebody else

00:07:21   there as well.

00:07:22   I think that they don't trust Federighi because he seems like a bit of a wildcard,

00:07:27   that guy.

00:07:27   Well, I think also, and we'll talk about the content later, but just in terms of the presentation,

00:07:32   I think Federighi is interesting because we see him, our relationship with him as people

00:07:37   who observe this from the outside is that Craig Federighi is the guy on stage and he

00:07:43   started out nervous and now he's actually pretty good and his presentations are funny.

00:07:48   And you can see his personality come through. At the talk show, what I noticed was, you

00:07:53   know he's a giant giant computer nerd. He is right and I feel like

00:07:58   actually I think I might even mention this to you I kind of think that Apple

00:08:04   does him a disservice and does itself a disservice when they only put Federighi

00:08:09   out there in these controlled situations and I get exactly what you're saying

00:08:13   which is that that Craig Federighi is a little bit of a loose cannon maybe and

00:08:17   they want to watch him because he might he might say stuff that they don't want

00:08:20   to talk about but he brought a level of technical credibility just in some of

00:08:26   the detail that he threw out on stage to that developer audience that I think

00:08:30   I think is actually pretty good because it shows you another side of him that

00:08:33   he's not just this pitch man with with big hair he's the guy who runs the

00:08:38   software development effort at Apple and that he knows his stuff and that he can

00:08:42   speak about technical decisions Apple makes and that goes against something

00:08:47   that Steve Jobs really believed in which is the idea that Apple's almost a

00:08:50   black box and you know you don't reveal to the public you don't tell them the

00:08:55   secrets of your magic tricks but I think I think there's some value in having

00:09:00   somebody especially who's as good at this as Craig Federighi open up a little

00:09:06   bit more about like the it's not even huge detail but like the fact that Apple

00:09:10   of course Apple sweats the details of course Apple works really hard and

00:09:15   thinks about its options before it makes decisions and we can agree or disagree

00:09:18   disagree with the end result of those decisions, but I like that he dove in and said some things

00:09:24   that were like extra technical. I think that actually is to the benefit of him and Apple.

00:09:28   So I'd like them to put him in more positions like that, but I also get why they have a

00:09:34   minder for him, which is that it is not what they're used to.

00:09:38   He wants to get into detail that Apple tends to be not comfortable to share.

00:09:42   He wants to nerd out.

00:09:43   I think that's where it ends up being this way. Yeah, exactly. He wants to nerd out and

00:09:47   they just won't let him do that, right?

00:09:50   And there was also a moment,

00:09:51   I can't remember exactly what it was you said,

00:09:53   but he was kind of beating up the Mac OS name a little bit,

00:09:57   which was very funny, which we all appreciated.

00:09:59   And he was talking about like rehearsals

00:10:02   of the keynote and stuff, you know,

00:10:04   like things that Apple liked to kind of keep

00:10:06   a bit more Christmas magic.

00:10:08   - Yeah, it's the same thing, right?

00:10:09   It's like, no, no, no, it's just,

00:10:10   the keynote just happens like that.

00:10:12   It's totally natural.

00:10:12   We don't spend hours and hours and hours rehearsing it

00:10:15   and getting it exactly right.

00:10:16   that's the magic trick part of it and and he you know but again I I see this

00:10:21   as being Apple

00:10:23   Apple doesn't often speak openly

00:10:26   to a a technical audience like developers at WWDC they

00:10:30   they generally they're so big now that they speak to this broad audience and

00:10:34   they think about

00:10:35   their PR and their marketing in terms of this broad lens

00:10:38   of everybody and that's the other thing I liked about this in general and

00:10:43   Federighi in particular is

00:10:45   And what I liked about Phil Schiller with Gruber last year is he was able to acknowledge

00:10:52   the elephant in the room. No, literally he got to acknowledge the fact that Marco wrote

00:10:56   a blog post on stage last year about Apple's software quality. They get to...because that's

00:11:03   the thing is it seems like they don't care or notice stuff that happens in our little

00:11:08   nerdier group because they're so focused on the big picture, which from a discipline standpoint

00:11:13   of PR is the right thing to do. Apple's a huge company. The people in our sphere are

00:11:17   a very tiny, very focused, but very tiny part of the much larger world around us. But in

00:11:23   a venue like this, you get to see that. You get to see like, "Oh, they're paying attention."

00:11:27   They just don't want to have that be the message, the PR message. They want to stay more disciplined

00:11:33   and speak to their target for this. But a little of that comes through in these talk show things,

00:11:38   things which is why I'm so glad they're doing them and that that that uh that

00:11:42   you have Apple executives on stage at a essentially a talk show for developers

00:11:46   that's great yeah I like it a lot um I also took my first trip to one infinite

00:11:53   loop never been there before ah did you power slide you know what we are looking

00:12:00   for a parking space ah oh yeah it's it's it's actually parking is really bad

00:12:05   there these days they have they are full and they they have like a valet parking

00:12:10   service now for although there's some guest parking there's usually you can

00:12:13   get some guest parking yeah they had a they had a kind of a guest car park but

00:12:18   it was it was full we were in there for a while so it is WWDC week right so

00:12:23   probably they have a lot of visitors that week but often often it's not I

00:12:26   that's where I want I bought you see I bought you that pen and then you ended

00:12:30   up going to one infinite loop I didn't even need to buy you that it's like four

00:12:33   colors so it helped me. One thing that really shocked me was that people can just drive

00:12:41   in. Like that's so interesting to me, like this is like the most secretive company in

00:12:47   the world but you could just drive in. I expected more security on the door or something.

00:12:54   Well, Infinite Loop, I think this goes back to just when it was constructed, that's

00:12:58   a public street.

00:13:00   Ah, okay. I didn't notice that.

00:13:03   Because it definitely looked like I was just driving into a company.

00:13:06   I mean Apple has the infinite loop that goes around the central complex there.

00:13:11   I mean there are parking lots on the outside and buildings on the inside.

00:13:14   But I think it's probably a public street. It's got the public street signs

00:13:18   and all of that. And that probably goes just back to when they

00:13:21   decided to build it and the decisions they made, the land use decisions.

00:13:24   The other funny thing is that in that parking lot there's a

00:13:27   There's a restaurant and an office building that are on that block that just sort of like never,

00:13:33   you know, they never got consumed by Apple.

00:13:36   And so there's, when you turn in, when you make the left to go into Mariani Avenue and then to Infinite Loop,

00:13:45   there's like a foundation headquarters on the corner and there's a BJ's pizza place that's in that block too,

00:13:52   which Apple employees will go to and have a beer.

00:13:54   and why are they there? Why is that not just all Apple for that entire square?

00:14:00   And you know it just isn't. That's just quirks

00:14:03   of when they got the land to build that complex. So

00:14:07   I would imagine that the new Apple campus

00:14:11   has, well in fact I think we know this now, that they have the way the access

00:14:16   works there is that there's like an entry point

00:14:18   and where they are gonna have their like store

00:14:22   museum thing and parking and like a visitor access and you know all other access is employee

00:14:32   access and is different but yeah you can just drive around Infinite Loop, park wherever,

00:14:38   walk right into the store which also I mean has always been there basically for a long

00:14:43   time also kind of un-Apple like in a way that Apple's like yeah we have a retail store that

00:14:50   predates our other retail stores where you can buy like merch and here it is on our campus.

00:14:55   It's really funny but it's been a thing and it's still a thing. So yeah. So it was good?

00:15:01   It was a good trip?

00:15:02   Yeah, I mean the biggest part of that trip was we went and had a great day at Facebook

00:15:05   too but going out to see One Infinite Loop we just went to the company store, we bought

00:15:10   the obligatory merchandise, took some pictures and then went on our way.

00:15:14   I mean that's the only place you can get like Apple branded t-shirts and pens and things

00:15:19   that are not. It's an Apple store now, which it, well I guess it was always, it always

00:15:23   sold products and if you're an employee you can go there and use your discount and they

00:15:28   ask you if you're an employee, in fact, did they do that with you?

00:15:31   No. No? Oh, okay. I get that. I get that from them, where they're like, "Do you have the

00:15:35   employee discount?" and I'm like, "No, I'm just a regular person." And they're like,

00:15:39   "They're a full price." There are probably so many people there that

00:15:41   week that they just assume that everybody is it.

00:15:43   So they used to have some hardware available, but now it looks like an Apple store. They

00:15:49   rebuilt it and now it looks like an Apple store. But in the corners you'll find the

00:15:54   oddities, you'll find the things that are essentially one-offs, which I'm a little...

00:16:01   I mean it makes it special. At the same time I feel like, you know, could Apple not have

00:16:06   t-shirts in every Apple store? But they don't. It's at the company store. That's it. The

00:16:11   infinite loop store.

00:16:12   >> I want to talk a little bit about some of the other stuff that's happened in the

00:16:17   past week, you know, from talking to developers and spending time in San Francisco.

00:16:20   >> Yeah.

00:16:21   >> Before we do, let's take our first break and thank Smile for sponsoring this week's

00:16:25   episode.

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00:17:48   Thank you so much to Smile for their support of this show.

00:17:52   Alright, they've missed us now. So, over the week, you know, talking to developers and

00:17:57   stuff you kind of start to get a feel for what people are excited about and what they're

00:18:01   And one of the things that I think I was seeing a lot of excitement about from a user perspective

00:18:06   and also a developer perspective was sticker packs in messages.

00:18:10   Yep, I guess stickers are a thing.

00:18:14   I mean, you know, I was excited about them as a user, right, because I like them, I want

00:18:18   to be able to send silly things to people.

00:18:20   But what was interesting as the week went on is we found out that it's incredibly easy

00:18:25   to add stickers into messages with your current application.

00:18:28   super simple to make one like a make a brand new app or super simple to add

00:18:33   messages and stickers to your existing app and basically what it seemed like is

00:18:38   all you need to do is put images in a folder in your xcode file and you're

00:18:43   done

00:18:43   yeah exactly and I think that's interesting because part of the interest

00:18:48   here is the people who don't develop software can now have a product and on

00:18:54   the App Store, which is selling the artwork essentially for stickers and messages.

00:19:01   And this is going to be my repeated refrain, I think we talked about it last week a little

00:19:06   bit, but people are going to roll their eyes at all the silly things that are in messages

00:19:09   because I don't know, phones are serious, computers are serious, and we should take

00:19:13   them more seriously.

00:19:14   But the fact is, stickers are one of the wildly popular things in messaging services, where

00:19:20   apps like Line have made huge businesses at selling sticker packs as well as

00:19:26   giving away free stuff and so it's great that Apple is doing this and it's

00:19:31   great because like for example a podcast network like Relay that has made

00:19:36   stickers over the years, over the two years that Relay has been around

00:19:41   you know you can and I know somebody did somebody actually somebody at RelayCon

00:19:47   the event on Monday night took pictures of the stickers that we handed out there and

00:19:54   made a sticker pack with the pictures of the stickers. Just amazing.

00:19:59   Kind of amazing. Yeah, I'll find that, I'll put it in the show notes. I believe it was

00:20:02   a guy called Kim and he made an incredible, like, incredibly quickly put it together and

00:20:09   presented an iMessage sticker pack of the stickers that we gave out. It was, this is

00:20:14   showing like that how if you know what you're doing and even if you don't

00:20:19   really it's easy to get these things done and it makes me excited you know

00:20:23   like we're looking at how we could do more of that and put them into the relay

00:20:27   app so they can be using messages and and I loved an article that you wrote

00:20:31   actually on Macworld because it it kind of put into perspective and expanded on

00:20:39   something that I've been thinking about which is that sticker packs are a way

00:20:44   that Apple is demonstrating that they are moving with market forces. Right you

00:20:51   you saw me get the idea for this story. Did I? Yes at at the talk show I opened

00:20:59   up reminders and put in a note that said what how messages is like notes. I

00:21:05   remember that I remember that. And that's this that's this article because the

00:21:10   Well, the whole premise of the article is that, okay, we can all say why messages?

00:21:15   Why so much effort into messages?

00:21:17   And one of the reasons is, look back to Notes last year.

00:21:23   Notes, Apple said, some huge percentage of iPhone users use Notes.

00:21:28   And they basically had it, and they didn't say this on stage, but it was very clear.

00:21:31   They had a realization like, wow, if people are going to use this, we better make it good.

00:21:35   And they said on stage this year, "Messages is the most frequently used iOS app."

00:21:40   Like period.

00:21:41   Full stop, as you would say.

00:21:45   And well, geez, I guess we should put more effort into it if it's the number one app,

00:21:50   right?

00:21:51   And so, and look at, in a huge growing category where these other apps have great success

00:21:56   with a lot of these fun features that aren't in Messages.

00:22:00   And so that's the way they went.

00:22:02   That's where they decided to go.

00:22:04   And you can see they're following market trends, they're listening to how the users are using

00:22:08   their products. And if the users use, you know, no tech, it's like no battle plan survives

00:22:14   an encounter with the enemy, no technology survives an encounter unscathed with the users.

00:22:19   The users do, we've known this for decades. Users use computers and software for all sorts

00:22:24   of things that are not why it was made, right? And rather than going, "No, no, no, that's

00:22:28   not supported. Don't do that." What Apple's doing here is going like, "Oh, I guess people

00:22:32   really do want a good camera and the iPad, who knew? Or, oh I guess selfies are a thing,

00:22:36   maybe we should make that camera better. And upgrading notes fits in there and this year

00:22:41   upgrading messages fits right in there.

00:22:44   Like if you look at the App Store right now, it's kind of dominated by apps that are pretending

00:22:49   to be emoji, which are really just custom keyboards that are basically stickers. You

00:22:54   copy and paste an image into messages. There is, you know, and I assume Apple probably

00:23:00   would like those to be better supported better implemented and out of the top charts of the

00:23:06   App Store. Right. So they're creating a place now in that this is honestly why I believe

00:23:12   they created an iMessage store as well. So stuff like this doesn't like fill up the App

00:23:17   Store because it's like celebrity emoji and celebrity stickers. They're always going to

00:23:21   go straight to the top. You know Justin Bieber releases his pseudo emoji pack and it's like

00:23:25   straight up at number one. I think they would maybe like that to be away from there and

00:23:29   kind of because right now it's highlighting some weird implementation stuff that Apple

00:23:34   has right? Like the custom keyboards can't really, they can't paste images and stuff

00:23:39   like that so it looks a bit weird. So I think they're just trying to like "hey guys come

00:23:42   over here, like it's real nice over here, it's in the messages app, you can put your

00:23:46   stickers there". But I wanted to read a little quote there from your article which I thought

00:23:51   was quite poignant. You said "Technology has been repurposed by users for purposes far

00:23:55   beyond those intended by its creators from the very beginning. In the early days of the

00:23:59   the web I built pages inside of an email client. Today I edit podcasts using a tool designed

00:24:04   for music production." And I just thought, so true. It's like people find the things

00:24:10   they want to do and they bend the rules and they twist them and push them and take it

00:24:14   to their extremes and then the best thing for a company that makes this stuff to do

00:24:18   is to listen to those people, look at what they're doing and give them something that

00:24:22   allows them to create this stuff easier so they continue to push and bend and break in

00:24:27   of always. Yeah, yeah exactly right. I mean it's not always the case, there are always

00:24:31   examples where it's like well I don't want to break what this app is for in order to

00:24:35   use it in this other way. I understand that but I think there's just so much, in most

00:24:40   cases there's so much you can learn as the maker of any product about oh they're using

00:24:44   it that way, that's interesting, what does that tell me about my product? Can I do things

00:24:47   to make that better? And software is so flexible compared to like a tool you get at the hardware

00:24:53   store or something like that where you'll be like oh I didn't know you could use a hammer

00:24:56   for that. But it's still a hammer, it's just, it's gonna stay a hammer. With software you

00:25:02   can think differently about that and change what the product is or make a different version

00:25:09   of the product that does something a little bit different and I see Apple doing that right

00:25:14   now.

00:25:15   Geoff - Yep, 100%. One of the other things that I got from talking to people over the

00:25:20   week, it felt like overall it's been a pretty good year for enhancements for developers

00:25:26   without anything that has completely undermined them, you know.

00:25:29   There wasn't a feeling of like, oh no, Apple's given me six months of really hard work, you

00:25:33   know, like when they did like iOS 7 and stuff like that, which I thought we were going to

00:25:38   see something like that with a dark mode, but that hasn't happened.

00:25:43   What's quite funny in a turn of events, every piece of dark UI in iOS has turned white,

00:25:48   which I find kind of hilarious when I was expecting a dark mode and they just turned

00:25:51   it into lighter mode.

00:25:52   You could argue that maybe that was a sign that they were thinking about doing a darker mode so they lightened everything in the standard interface

00:25:58   So that's my hope. That is honestly that is my hope like it said we get it now and then later we get a dark mode

00:26:05   I don't think it will happen now until next year with this we have a potential OLED phone or yeah

00:26:12   That's that well

00:26:12   That would be the reason to do it right or or I mean you could see it in a 10.1 or a 10.2

00:26:17   Because I think we're all figuring that they're that they're gonna probably

00:26:20   do an update, at least we're all hoping, with some more especially iPad-y features midstream.

00:26:28   But yeah, yeah. Oh, I have one more thing. I had dinner with, it was Chinese food, right

00:26:35   after RelayCon, and you guys missed it, they closed, they locked the doors and turned off

00:26:38   the lights after we went in there.

00:26:39   Yeah, nice work.

00:26:40   Which is too bad. We didn't realize that they closed at 9 and we walked in at 8.59 and they

00:26:44   served us, but they closed and locked the doors. Anyway, one of the people at that table

00:26:48   was Craig Hockenberry and back to your point about developers feeling like this was good

00:26:54   and they weren't going to ruin their summer, I mean that's what Craig told me, Craig from

00:26:57   the Icon Factor, he was like, "I don't feel like my summer was ruined." I mean he said

00:27:02   it that way. And that is some years developers look at this and are like, "Oh man, we gotta

00:27:07   do so much and adopt all these things by the time the OS ships." And this time it's more

00:27:14   like a whole bunch of little things scattered throughout. I'm surprised that nobody has

00:27:18   made this, or I haven't seen a groundswell of support for the idea that this is what

00:27:24   we asked for in terms of OS updates, which is a whole bunch of little things pushing

00:27:28   the platform forward and not some giant new thing that breaks a lot of stuff.

00:27:34   I think we need to see how the rest of the year goes, you know, because I know that's

00:27:37   what we were asking for and what we believe that 9.3 was going to give us. I think after

00:27:42   maybe we see what 10.1, 10.2, 10.3, 10.4 could be, then I think we can make that claim. It

00:27:48   does feel like this is the start of that, right, because it's like super focused on

00:27:52   one app. I mean, I know they said there were 10 features in iOS, but really it was messages,

00:27:58   right? Like that was a real big one.

00:28:00   And the interface changes with the notifications. I mean, those are the big things that happened

00:28:04   in this. But it's good for developers. Developers like the fact that they, you know, Apple isn't

00:28:10   shipping something in a developer beta that is going to require them to completely re-implement

00:28:15   and overhaul their apps in order to get something out on chip day. It's not that kind of an

00:28:20   update and if you're a developer, you know, Apple can eat your summertime.

00:28:25   Oh yes.

00:28:26   So they were, I think there was a lot of relief from developers that this was cool stuff that

00:28:30   they liked and that they wanted to play with but that they didn't feel it was one of these

00:28:33   things where if they weren't there with a new app on day one they were going to be out

00:28:37   of luck.

00:28:39   One thing that's annoyed me is thinking about the Siri API and realizing that there's

00:28:43   no audio intent.

00:28:44   Yeah, yeah, I'm sure Marco thinks that way too.

00:28:48   Yeah, I bet.

00:28:49   This is such an obvious one to do.

00:28:53   I can't work out why it's not here.

00:28:55   You know, like, so basically in case you're not familiar, the intents are the things that

00:28:59   you can do with what they're calling SiriKit, which I don't think they mentioned that

00:29:05   name on stage.

00:29:06   I think they called it the Siri API or did they call it SiriKit?

00:29:10   I don't think they called it SiriKit in the keynote.

00:29:12   No, I don't remember that either, but that is what it's called.

00:29:17   And there are things that you're able to do like VoIP calling, photo search, payments,

00:29:23   messaging, ride booking, workouts, and climate and radio, which is specifically designed

00:29:28   for CarPlay.

00:29:29   Also, something I didn't hear them mention, I just saw that on the documentation page.

00:29:33   So these are intent, these intents are, they remind me of the multitasking that came of

00:29:38   iOS 4.

00:29:39   It's like here are a bunch of things that we can do.

00:29:42   You can't do everything.

00:29:43   You have to be one of these types of applications.

00:29:45   And I think that audio is such an obvious one.

00:29:48   Like Siri play connected on overcast or Siri play Taylor Swift on Spotify.

00:29:57   It feels like an obvious one for audio but they haven't done it.

00:30:00   Which leads me to ask questions of why, which takes me down rabbit holes of like questioning

00:30:07   Apple as in like "did you do this because you don't want people to say play Taylor Swift

00:30:11   on Spotify?

00:30:12   Like why didn't you do this?"

00:30:13   I don't think so.

00:30:16   My guess is that they made a list of different categories that they wanted to support with

00:30:22   the Siri API and that the audio one just was below the list.

00:30:28   Like because they can't do it they can't do that.

00:30:29   I mean that's what I would assume. They can't do everything, you know, but it--

00:30:33   But they may also, there may be some sort of like internal bias of like, "Well we've

00:30:39   got Apple Music and Podcasts app and that's all anybody ever needs, so let's not worry

00:30:43   about it." But unfortunately, that's not true. You have people using Spotify and people using

00:30:50   Overcast, and wouldn't it be great if I could say, "Ahoy telephone, play the latest episode

00:30:54   of The Flop House in Overcast." And I can't.

00:30:57   Yeah, and I honestly think this is a big miss, and I hope that the next version of SiriKit gets this,

00:31:03   because this feels like the one that would really be useful to me for what I use my phone for,

00:31:09   in all honesty. I would like to be able to shout out.

00:31:13   I'm a little disappointed with how Siri has handled audio. I mean, you can get it to play

00:31:20   things if you are lucky using the existing stuff, but it's not... I would say it's not actually a lot

00:31:27   better than voice control which is the old, before there was Siri there was voice control

00:31:33   where with no internet connection you could do basic voice commands largely to just control

00:31:39   your audio and I feel like it hasn't really evolved a whole lot past that and I want it

00:31:44   to be more flexible and understand my playlist better or make guesses about what I want and

00:31:48   ask me if this is what I want and I still don't feel like it's great so I wonder if

00:31:56   feels like, I don't know, like this is, it's good enough now and they're not going to worry

00:32:00   about it, but it's ripe for this, I agree. Voice control, by the way, made a cameo on

00:32:04   stage during the keynote, and people have forgotten what it was and they're like, "Oh,

00:32:08   is that a new feature?" When, I think Craig held the button down too long, and it was

00:32:15   on a phone where Siri was disabled, and so, because it was a beta and a demo, and voice

00:32:20   control came up for a minute, and the guy behind me was like, "Voice control?" and I'm

00:32:24   thinking, yeah that's because it's, yeah, anyway, it's, it's not a new feature, it's

00:32:28   a very old feature. It's still there.

00:32:30   Good spot, I didn't notice that.

00:32:31   Yeah.

00:32:32   I really do have to look at ride booking, and I'm like, ride booking? Ride booking made

00:32:36   the list? Like, does anyone want to book a ride without seeing the UI of where they think

00:32:42   you're being picked up from and where you're going?

00:32:45   Yeah.

00:32:46   I look at that one and I'm like, that made it in over audio? I just don't get it.

00:32:50   I can come up with some theories about it, about what their priorities are, but what's

00:32:55   the use case of that? That you're somewhere where you can talk to your phone, but you

00:32:59   want to ride? You know, maybe it's related to map-related stuff. I don't know. Maybe

00:33:08   it does come down to that, Myke, which is that Apple doesn't do ride booking, and Apple

00:33:13   does do music, and so they feel like the need is less, because we have these great Apple

00:33:17   music and podcast app solutions for you but that's the first thing I thought of obviously

00:33:22   as a not as just as a podcast maker but as a podcast and music listener that having the

00:33:27   ability to I was thinking specifically of Overcast being able to control that when I'm

00:33:31   in the car and tell the lady to play a different podcast or whatever and you know and ultimately

00:33:38   tell my Apple watch to do that too that would be great but it's not not yet not yet they've

00:33:43   said, it's very clear this is going to be like multitasking where they start with a

00:33:46   very narrow range and then they expand from there because they're building out these intents

00:33:50   where the developer doesn't have to parse any of the language. That's all good, that's

00:33:56   all good, it's just that these are the ones they chose to start with and I think it's

00:33:59   fair to say "huh?" to a few of the decisions about which ones to support.

00:34:05   So I think we didn't see any of at WWDC, I think the surprise from some was hardware.

00:34:11   No hardware announced at all. I was expecting at least something irrespective of what was

00:34:17   being said.

00:34:18   Yeah, I think in the end, I mean we've said it before, hardware is not mandatory at WWDC,

00:34:24   it's not like they don't do it, but they don't have to do it because it really is about the

00:34:28   software and they made the point, we've got four platforms at this point, it was so packed

00:34:34   that they moved the developer announcements out.

00:34:37   There was a bunch of other stuff

00:34:38   that kind of was below the radar

00:34:40   because it's just not, you know, it didn't fit.

00:34:45   It was a packed two hours and Apple is firm at two hours.

00:34:49   Like they don't wanna go over two hours.

00:34:51   And so I'm sure at some point,

00:34:54   based on the rumors, I think there's some hardware

00:34:57   that's basically ready that they could have announced

00:35:01   and that they would have announced

00:35:03   they didn't have a lot of other things to say, but they did. They filled the keynote,

00:35:07   so just save it and announce it. Who knows, maybe they'll announce it this week or next

00:35:13   week. It might be soon if they've got hardware that is in production that might be ready

00:35:18   to go and ship in July or something like that. They could do that later and then make another

00:35:23   little splash. But I think bottom line, it felt to me like that keynote was completely

00:35:29   packed and Federighi said as much at the talk show and I believe them that it's just like

00:35:35   if you've got so much OS stuff to tell developers at WWDC save your hardware for another time.

00:35:42   So I would like you to look into your crystal brain ball and predict. You touched the brain

00:35:48   ball again. Every year I need to hold it to drain my power you know I can need it for

00:35:55   the rest of the year.

00:35:56   >> Well, I also stole your power because we did a Bono Tim Cook finger touch.

00:36:01   >> We did.

00:36:02   >> I made you do that.

00:36:03   And everybody around went, "No, don't do it!"

00:36:04   And you did it.

00:36:05   And it's like, "Nah, I stole your soul."

00:36:06   All right, I got the brain ball here.

00:36:08   >> All right, so I want to get from you, I have four items here, and I want you to tell

00:36:12   me when you think they're going to be out.

00:36:15   Watch 2.

00:36:18   >> Announced September, arriving October.

00:36:22   >> And you think that will be announced with the next iPhone, I assume?

00:36:25   Yeah, when when we see the new MacBook Pro with the OLED sensor bar touch display thing

00:36:31   July new Mac Pro

00:36:35   Sounds a little bit more difficult

00:36:40   summer

00:36:42   How do we keep score on these?

00:36:44   Someone will somebody out there keep score

00:36:47   cinema display

00:36:50   Same time as the Mac Pro, so they'll come together in the summer

00:36:53   So, basically we're looking at new MacBook Pro in July, the Watch 2 in September, and

00:37:01   sometime in between new Mac Pro with the cinema display.

00:37:05   Or at the same time as the MacBook Pro, but that might be later.

00:37:08   Those are my guesses.

00:37:09   I have no information here.

00:37:10   If I had information I would be cagey about it, but I have no information.

00:37:12   I'm going on seeing the rumor reports and making some guesses, but that would be my

00:37:16   guess is that the rumor about the MacBook Pro especially is that it's coming, and if

00:37:21   If that's true, it's probably going to be announced soon.

00:37:24   Like I said, I wouldn't be shocked if they announce it in the next few weeks and say

00:37:27   it's shipping immediately or shipping in a few weeks after that.

00:37:31   The Mac Pro, you know, I don't know the vagaries of Intel chip availability and the way they're

00:37:37   going to turn it around, but there seems to be a lot of conversation about the Mac Pro

00:37:40   and the cinema display.

00:37:41   That could slip, it could be anywhere until like December before they do it, but I hope

00:37:47   it's sooner than that.

00:37:48   to wish cast a little bit and say summer whether it's at the same time as the

00:37:52   MacBook Pro or maybe it's just something that happens in August when there's not

00:37:55   a lot going on and they drop a new Mac Pro because that's not... Mac Pros aren't

00:38:00   really tied to buying cycles in some ways as much it's not a consumer product

00:38:06   at the same time it's so old the version that's out there now that they've got to

00:38:10   feel some pressure to turn it over with a new one but if it's doing Thunderbolt

00:38:17   3 and if there's a display that's coming that is based on

00:38:22   Thunderbolt 3 and they're going to roll out Thunderbolt 3 with the MacBook

00:38:26   Pros, perhaps what's happening here is that there are some constraints like

00:38:30   they want everything they want to be able to tell this story and have

00:38:34   confidence that the products will ship and it may be that that that's just not

00:38:37   happening yet and so some of the stuff has been delayed because they can't be

00:38:43   sure that they're going to be able to ship them in or in ship them in

00:38:46   quantity but those are my guesses.

00:38:49   Somebody keep score.

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00:40:58   their support of this very program. Out of the four platforms that were announced last week,

00:41:05   I think that me and you are both the most excited about watch OS 3. I

00:41:10   Know I am that's the one I want to try the most. Yeah, I have to install iOS 10 to do it. So

00:41:16   I don't know how I feel about that. I don't think I want to put out my phone yet

00:41:19   That's the killer is I don't want to put iOS 10 beta 1 on my phone and that's what's required for me to get I mean

00:41:26   I could install it on another device and have and and pair it there

00:41:31   But then the data is coming from that one

00:41:33   I leave the house without the other phone and then it doesn't

00:41:36   Yeah, yeah because I am excited about it I ended up writing actually it's funny

00:41:42   I wrote there's a in fact somebody somebody took a panorama of the new Apple Store at Union Square

00:41:47   And then and then said oh I got Jason writing an article at the new Apple Store at Union Square in my panorama

00:41:54   And he he tweeted it to me. It's very funny, and he it was me. I was there. I I had some time between

00:42:01   I was in in the morning and I had a lunch, but I had like a couple of hours and I worked and I wrote, I think that Macworld column that we referenced earlier, I wrote at a Starbucks south of Market and then I was done with that and I still had time. I still had like an hour and a half before my lunch.

00:42:22   and it's morning, people who are out late the night before,

00:42:26   they're all asleep.

00:42:27   So I went to the Apple store, I thought,

00:42:29   "Oh, well I haven't been to the new Apple store,

00:42:31   "I'll go to the new Apple store."

00:42:32   So I did that and I was walking around

00:42:33   and I saw the Genius Grove and had a chuckle at the--

00:42:36   - Isn't it beautiful though?

00:42:37   - The trees, it is, it is, it's amazing.

00:42:38   It was a windy day so they didn't have the big doors open,

00:42:41   but just a, it's beautiful.

00:42:43   - I actually met, it's so funny,

00:42:45   like we were joking, Gray was joking a bunch

00:42:49   about like meat and apple, right?

00:42:50   You know like Angelina Arons was saying

00:42:52   that she believes people will meet at Apple.

00:42:54   We met Gray at Apple, me, Steven,

00:42:57   and we hung out there for a while.

00:42:59   And then we met a few other people there,

00:43:01   Kyle's the Gray and Spencer came

00:43:04   and we were all hanging out for a bit.

00:43:06   And it was like, oh, we are meeting at Apple

00:43:08   because that store is just so perfect to hang out in.

00:43:13   - And it's huge and it overlooks the center,

00:43:16   you know, Union Square, which is pretty.

00:43:20   And yeah, I was impressed.

00:43:22   It definitely is, and it feels like an evolution

00:43:25   of the Apple store we know, but it was,

00:43:27   and especially WWDC Week,

00:43:29   'cause I ran into Manton Reese there.

00:43:32   I ran into so many people because everybody,

00:43:34   all the nerds were coming up, including me, to see it

00:43:38   at some point during the week.

00:43:40   - So I'm very excited because the Regent Street Store

00:43:43   for many, many months, nearly a year now,

00:43:47   has had just the basement open.

00:43:50   So they closed the rest of the store

00:43:52   and turned the basement into a small store.

00:43:54   Last week, they closed the Regent Street store completely

00:43:59   for the renovations.

00:44:00   So they must be close now to reopening it

00:44:04   with the new design.

00:44:06   And I can only imagine that this one

00:44:08   is going to be stupendous.

00:44:10   If my facts are correct,

00:44:12   the Regent Street store is still the Apple store

00:44:15   that earns the most by square foot.

00:44:17   And it's always been, I think, one of the jewels

00:44:21   in the crown that Apple have, it's so beautiful.

00:44:24   And I cannot wait to see it.

00:44:26   I've actually heard and seen things online

00:44:28   that they're removing the Apple logos

00:44:30   from the front of the store.

00:44:32   - Interesting.

00:44:33   - I wonder how they're gonna play it

00:44:34   because they haven't got a big sheet of metal

00:44:36   to stamp the foil, you know, you get the mirrored one

00:44:39   that they have on the Union Square one.

00:44:41   So I'm really excited to see it.

00:44:42   And as soon as I see it reopening,

00:44:44   I'm gonna head down there and take a look because I think it's gonna be pretty incredible.

00:44:49   Yeah, the Union Square store because it's got the aluminum panels on the side with the

00:44:53   shiny apple logo, it looks like the store looks like a big apple product, which is funny,

00:45:01   and it's just a whole big glass front and it's good. Anyway, my point is, because we

00:45:05   kind of we veered over into new Apple stores for a minute there, is that I wrote this piece

00:45:10   about being excited about watchOS 3 at Apple, so to speak, at the Apple Store. I just sat

00:45:18   down because I wandered around and I saw everything and then I thought, well I've got a little

00:45:22   time and I have this idea for a story that maybe I can, you know, I usually sit at my

00:45:28   desk and write things but I was roaming around San Francisco and I thought, okay, can I do

00:45:32   this? So I sat down with my iPad at a table at the Apple Store and I wrote this piece

00:45:37   which is, you know, the idea that Apple Watch is like a do-over for WatchOS. This is the

00:45:46   real opportunity for Apple to reinvent. Like we said last week, and like I've been saying

00:45:52   all along, it's like, will Apple take the opportunity to basically say, "Okay, do-over,

00:45:58   we got some things wrong, we're gonna make it better, we've rethought how we approach

00:46:03   Apple Watch essentially for the first time because watchOS 2 was really an incremental

00:46:09   update to the original software that was on the watch. And they did, they took that opportunity

00:46:15   and boy I do wish I could install it today on my watch, I just don't want to install

00:46:19   iOS 10 beta 1 on my iPhone.

00:46:22   Yeah I don't want to do that either. And I recommend that most people don't unless they

00:46:27   have a device that it's good for, you know. I wouldn't put it on my main phone right now.

00:46:33   I have an old Air 2, which I'm going to put 10 on to.

00:46:37   And then maybe I usually jump on around Beta 3 or Beta 4, or the public Beta.

00:46:44   So I haven't decided what we're going to go yet.

00:46:46   The public Beta, is that July or August?

00:46:49   I think it's July.

00:46:50   July, okay.

00:46:51   So look, maybe after Beta 2, right?

00:46:53   They've thrown the public Beta out there.

00:46:55   I think, as you mentioned, this is a complete do-over.

00:46:58   and I think it's so clear that Apple have shown

00:47:02   not only that they are paying attention

00:47:03   to how people use the device,

00:47:05   but also they've had more time with it.

00:47:07   You know, I'm sure that the original WatchOS

00:47:10   was maybe mostly developed

00:47:12   without people having the watch, right?

00:47:15   Like there wasn't a product for them to use,

00:47:18   so they developed it in a way

00:47:20   that they believed it would be good.

00:47:21   And they got a lot of it right, but a lot of it wrong.

00:47:24   And honestly, WatchOS 3 fixes so many

00:47:28   those things. Like the friends button and not having to use the honeycomb and the fact

00:47:34   that glances and notifications and apps kind of felt like a mess when you put all three

00:47:37   of them together, you don't need them all. And fixing all of that stuff, it really shows

00:47:43   a company that luckily and has gone against what I think we're all worried about, is

00:47:48   not going to just double down on the things that they didn't get right and that they're

00:47:53   able to move on from it. And it seems like that battery life was the thing that was originally

00:47:58   holding them back. And Federighi basically said as much during the talk show.

00:48:02   I think he even said, like, we were afraid or to the point of panic that we were gonna

00:48:08   not have enough battery on this thing. And so they obviously made a priority, the battery

00:48:15   life. Like, do whatever you do, battery comes first. And as a result, we got a device that

00:48:21   for most people, I think, doesn't use remotely all of the battery in a day. I know there

00:48:27   are some exceptions to that I've heard people who say that but certainly the

00:48:30   you know the people that I I know and and in my personal experience my battery

00:48:36   life on the watch is spectacular like they overshot and I think that for an

00:48:41   average user they totally did overshot Federighi said that he said that there

00:48:44   was extra RAM too they were really worried about about memory and and and

00:48:49   they took their best shot because they were afraid you never know how people

00:48:52   are going to use a product again and then they've looked over the last you

00:48:56   know, year and a half and realized, "Oh, we overshot." And that means, that means,

00:49:03   here's the amazing thing about watchOS 3 and why. A lot of times, we were talking about

00:49:06   this when we were speculating about watchOS 3 and like, would they be able to do these

00:49:10   things on the existing hardware or would there need to be new hardware? And the assumption

00:49:15   you make is that there's only so much you can do with the existing hardware because

00:49:21   they you know you can't upgrade the hardware. It is what it is and you can write software

00:49:26   that's a little more efficient but there's only so much you can get out of that. This

00:49:30   watchOS 3 is like a hardware upgrade for existing Apple watches because they were writing in

00:49:36   an envelope that was way inside the actual capabilities of the hardware because they

00:49:41   didn't know how people would use it and whether they would really be inside that envelope

00:49:46   or not. So they gave themselves a lot of leeway and with watchOS 3 they're opening it up.

00:49:50   So essentially, the watchOS 3 is like everybody who has got an Apple watch suddenly got a

00:49:56   bigger battery and more memory on their device.

00:49:59   Yep.

00:50:00   Federighi actually said we had RAM to spare.

00:50:02   Yeah.

00:50:03   Right?

00:50:04   And it was like, that was one of those things like, "Oh, don't say it!

00:50:06   Like I'm pleased you did, but maybe you shouldn't have."

00:50:09   And it basically feels like they, as you say, they were just, you know like the 10% of the

00:50:14   brain thing?

00:50:15   You know, like you only use 10% of your brain?

00:50:17   That's how it felt like with the watch, right?

00:50:19   only using 10% of the watch and now they have the ability to like really stretch

00:50:23   out like I left San Francisco I woke up in San Francisco at like 8 a.m. 7 a.m.

00:50:29   something like that and I arrived home in London at 10 p.m. London time and my

00:50:34   watch was still going that's not needed I'm really happy that it was like that

00:50:39   but it doesn't need to last that long it's effectively two days yeah and the

00:50:44   only time that less battery life would ever hurt me is in that exact instance and even

00:50:50   then I'm like I can live with that. I have a battery pack with me at all times. I can

00:50:53   just charge my watch for five minutes like I do my phone. I'm totally cool in those scenarios.

00:50:59   And I think Apple has looked at the user profiles of battery life and has said look if you're

00:51:04   somebody who has the small watch and you use the fitness features a lot you may have a

00:51:08   battery problem with watchOS 3 but you're an outlier like way outside of the mainstream

00:51:14   and we've decided that from now on, like, if you're in that user profile, you're gonna

00:51:18   have to top it up. You're just, you're not gonna get through the day. But there are so

00:51:22   many people who will benefit from this that we're gonna make that decision. And they may

00:51:27   never even say that, but I think that's gonna be the case, is that there are gonna be some

00:51:30   people who are using, especially the smaller watch, and use the fitness features, and are

00:51:35   going to say, "Oh, now I can't get through a day." And those people will be sad and mad,

00:51:41   but their watch will be better, and including fitness features, will be better, and the

00:51:45   trade-off may be that for that small percentage of people, they do need to top it up or make

00:51:53   sure that they leave it on the charger a little bit longer before they leave in the morning

00:51:57   or whatever. But I think not seeing numbers, just looking at anecdotal evidence, there

00:52:04   are exceptions like that, but most of the people I talk to about it say they've got

00:52:09   battery to spare and Apple seems to say the same thing so they're gonna use it.

00:52:13   And learning how we use them and trying to make data more instantly available

00:52:17   you know learning about complications and glances and stuff like that. The

00:52:21   whole idea of the first-class apps is so smart and and and and I think has to be

00:52:26   informed by everybody using this for for you know a year and realizing I mean

00:52:32   they started on this work a year ago they said but still they had at least

00:52:34   three months of this product out in the field before they even set down this

00:52:38   path and I think it would have been clear to them fairly quickly like, "Oh, plus, like

00:52:44   you said, probably a lot of these decisions were made before they even had the hardware

00:52:48   and then they tweaked it as they go." It's hard, I would imagine it was hard to reverse,

00:52:52   completely reverse some decisions as they were moving towards ship, but now they have

00:52:57   the opportunity to do that. And so now you look at it and you say, "Okay, apps and

00:53:04   glances that's confusing there are too many apps being installed especially if

00:53:08   you if you have the auto install on things don't update on time how do we

00:53:11   solve this and the answer is we're going to create a tiered system of apps where

00:53:15   if an app if a user shows preference for an app by putting it in the dock or by

00:53:22   putting it on a on a watch face as a complication then it's a first-class app

00:53:27   it gets to remain in memory it gets to run in the background and update its

00:53:32   data, all these things that no apps basically got to do before. And then every other app

00:53:39   that's just sitting there on your watch in the honeycomb, it's like, it's there if you

00:53:42   want it and you're going to launch it and you'll have to wait for it to launch. But

00:53:46   those eight apps or five apps or whatever number, small number of apps that you actually

00:53:52   use, the ones that are on your watch face, like my weather complication that I looked

00:53:56   at the other day, or looked at yesterday and it was like 85 degrees and I looked at my

00:53:59   watch and it said 71 and I tapped on the complication and it spun for like 40

00:54:05   seconds and it finally loaded the app and then I switch back to the

00:54:08   complication and it said 85 degrees. In watchOS 3 that being on the

00:54:14   complication on my watch face is enough for the OS to say "oh, you app, stay

00:54:20   alive and periodically I'm going to ask you to update your data because this is

00:54:24   important" and that's that's going to be huge

00:54:26   it's a huge difference just doing that.

00:54:30   I'm really excited to use this. Yeah I think anybody with an Apple Watch, I

00:54:34   think this is gonna be a big win for for everybody

00:54:36   and yes it will drive me to install

00:54:41   an iOS 10 beta on my main iPhone

00:54:45   way sooner than I should because I want to use this

00:54:49   but not yet. Beta 1?

00:54:52   No, yeah maybe, I think maybe I'm gonna go public beta on my phone but you know, we'll

00:54:59   see if I can hold out that long because I really want to use this.

00:55:03   Is there a public beta of the watch?

00:55:04   Because you might not be able to do it.

00:55:07   No, no but I bet I could do the profile and install from the public beta tends to be the

00:55:12   same build as a developer beta and then if I use the developer build of the watch from

00:55:19   the public beta, I assume that'll work or I'll just use the developer equivalent of

00:55:24   the public beta if it comes to that, but let's see if I can hold out that long because just

00:55:27   talking about it now I'm just so excited about it. This is a rare example of, I mean it's

00:55:34   going to be a huge update for a product that as we've talked about before, I like it, you

00:55:39   like it, we use them every day, but this ticks all the right boxes, right? This is exactly

00:55:47   what they needed to do, it looks like. Sometimes you look at upgrades and lists of features

00:55:55   and you go, "Huh, why? Why these features?" And sometimes with things like messages you're

00:56:03   like, "Oh well, I see why it's the most popular and there's all these other categories. Got

00:56:06   it, got it." With a watchOS update, you look at it as a watch user and you're like, "Oh

00:56:11   they, yeah, they got it. They got exactly, exactly what they needed to do is what they're

00:56:17   doing. Like, they, obviously everybody involved has gone through everything that all the rest

00:56:23   of us have gone through and realized that what they need to do and, you know, that seems

00:56:28   obvious, except a lot of times that doesn't happen, right? A lot of times you're like,

00:56:32   "Why did you do this?" and not like, I heard somebody was talking quite rightly about messages

00:56:38   and they said, "Okay, all these stickers are great. Are you going to fix all of the sync

00:56:42   problems with messages?" That's a fair point, right? There are also complaints that should

00:56:48   probably be addressed, not just new features. But with watchOS 3, it's just like they nailed

00:56:51   it, at least in terms of what they announced. We'll see how it works in practice. But in

00:56:55   terms of what they announced, it's very clear that they understand exactly what was wrong

00:56:59   with the watch, and that's great.

00:57:01   Yep, can't wait. I'm very excited about it. So just to say I've got 82% battery life on

00:57:08   my watch right now. It's 4pm and I think I took my watch off the charging stand this

00:57:12   morning around 9 or 10am. So battery to spare for sure. As Tim's also says in the chat room,

00:57:18   similar results. Battery to spare. Alright so I think it's time for some Ask Upgrade.

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00:59:06   Woo.

00:59:07   Got quite a few questions this week

00:59:09   based upon last week's announcements.

00:59:11   Luke says, "What do you think the Apple's timetable

00:59:14   will be for adding new app categories to Siri?"

00:59:17   Maybe a slide during the September event.

00:59:19   So this is more stuff to Siri get.

00:59:21   When am I gonna get my audio API?

00:59:22   I think we're looking at next year, personally.

00:59:25   I think so. I think that's iOS 11.

00:59:29   Which is a real shame, but I can't see them putting anything more into this until then.

00:59:33   They want some time to see how it's used.

00:59:35   Yeah, outside shot at iOS 10.2 or something like that in the spring, but I think it's

00:59:40   more likely that they're going to want to sit on the ones that they've implemented and

00:59:44   see how they're used and learn from them and use that as the basis for deciding where they

00:59:48   go from there.

00:59:49   Yep, definitely. I completely agree with you. I think they would have it if it was ready

00:59:55   they're not going to do it now.

00:59:57   Kian asked, "Any thoughts on the removals of widgets

00:59:59   "from Notification Center?"

01:00:01   This is one of the interesting things you find out

01:00:03   as the week goes on.

01:00:04   Currently, in beta one of iOS 10,

01:00:08   the widgets that you have, so your,

01:00:11   the Today View widgets as they used to be called,

01:00:13   now I think they're just called widgets,

01:00:15   they will show on your lock screen when you swipe,

01:00:18   is it right, how would you call it?

01:00:19   When you want to get to the left panel.

01:00:21   - You want to get to the left, you swipe left to right

01:00:22   and you move over one to the left panel.

01:00:26   - Left to right, you get your widgets.

01:00:28   Currently, when you pull down notification center

01:00:30   when your iPhone is unlocked,

01:00:31   you cannot swipe left to get your widgets anymore.

01:00:34   I have heard, I don't know if this was official,

01:00:37   but I was hearing this all over the place during WWDC week

01:00:41   that these are gonna return in beta two.

01:00:43   Did you hear that?

01:00:45   - I haven't heard that, but that sort of makes sense

01:00:47   because if you wanna have access to them

01:00:50   from inside an app because you can also access them

01:00:54   from the first, they're the page to the left

01:00:57   of the first page of the home screen.

01:00:58   So the one place where they aren't is if you're in an app.

01:01:05   If you're in an app, you can't get to them.

01:01:08   So if they put it back, that makes sense

01:01:10   because that lets you access those widgets

01:01:12   from inside another app without leaving it

01:01:15   by swiping down, so that makes sense.

01:01:18   - Definitely does. - But I haven't heard that.

01:01:19   I was hearing it all over the place with people talking about it.

01:01:22   So I assume it's official or it's just a little rumour.

01:01:25   We'll find out.

01:01:26   Nathan wants to know, are there any minor features that came out during the week that

01:01:29   caught your eye?

01:01:30   So this is one of my favourite things about the days after a WWDC keynote.

01:01:35   People install the betas and they find out little tidbits that hadn't been previously

01:01:39   spoken about.

01:01:40   So I have a couple.

01:01:41   The new folder animation I like a lot.

01:01:44   It looks really nice when you use it, especially on an iPad.

01:01:48   the thing I like the most about it is that you still see your background when you open

01:01:53   a folder. It doesn't do the zooming in to the folder anymore, the folder zooms out from

01:01:57   the home screen. It's a slight change but for me it's a nice one as opposed to getting

01:02:03   a weirdly cropped view of your background. And also the animation looks great, it doesn't

01:02:08   do that thing anymore which I'm going to tell you this, if you haven't seen this, this is

01:02:12   going to be upsetting for you.

01:02:14   Spoilers. Spoilers for iOS.

01:02:17   for your eyes, if you look at the, if you open a folder and close a folder, you can

01:02:23   watch the corner radius's change.

01:02:24   Oh no.

01:02:25   They just flick for a second, and it is a horrifying thing if you catch it.

01:02:31   Doesn't happen always, but every now and then you'll see just the corner radius is

01:02:35   flicked just for a moment as the folder changes.

01:02:37   That doesn't happen anymore.

01:02:39   They'll figure that out.

01:02:40   I want to link, we'll put it in the show notes, to Serenity, our friend, Serenity Caldwell,

01:02:46   wrote a very nice piece on iMore about the design language changes in iOS 10 and we will

01:02:51   talk about this more over the summer I'm sure because it's one of my favorite things about

01:02:56   iOS 10 and your folder animation is a good example of it where one of the things that

01:03:00   they've decided to do is have this approach of items coming forward to you instead of

01:03:08   having this kind of zoom and fade down. They're one of the things that was a feature of their

01:03:15   iOS 8 and iOS 7? Which was the one that first ditched skeuomorphism?

01:03:21   7.

01:03:22   It was 7. One of the features about that that I always liked was this idea of the semi-translucent

01:03:29   sheet. So you would see things obscured, but it wouldn't dim, they would just become fuzzed

01:03:36   out in the background. And iOS 10 does a lot more of that, and I think in a good way, where

01:03:43   got stuff in the foreground and other stuff in the background. The folder

01:03:46   animation is an example of that where you know the background stays where it

01:03:50   is and the folder kind of comes forward in the background just kind of gets

01:03:53   fuzzed out and I think maybe it helps with your mental geography of the system

01:03:58   that the stuff is mostly staying where it is and this thing is just

01:04:03   moving up toward you and then it moves it recedes back but Serenity has a nice

01:04:07   piece about all of the design language changes that are happening in

01:04:11   iOS 10 that people should check out. Yeah that's a good piece and yeah there is a lot

01:04:17   of interesting stuff going on there. Yeah. I'm waiting for it to one settle in for me

01:04:22   and two settle into the betas. I want to see how beta two looks before I think about beta

01:04:26   one too much because history has shown that any UI changes get some tweaks. Yeah I think

01:04:33   once they're in production everybody looks at them and goes I don't know about this and

01:04:35   they do make some changes in the betas for sure. Anybody who's ever written anything

01:04:39   by the way, inside baseball here, about iOS or Mac OS or whatever. Yeah, you write your

01:04:47   book or whatever or your review and you take screenshots and you know that you have to

01:04:50   take all the screenshots again at the end of the process when the thing ships because

01:04:55   it changes during the betas. Like visual changes happen and you know, you may not notice if

01:05:01   you're using it day to day or if you're just reading about it, but if you write about it,

01:05:04   let me tell you, you absolutely notice. Any screenshots you take today while you're writing

01:05:09   up your book about iOS 10, you're gonna have to take them again in September. It's just

01:05:13   gonna happen because they will tweak it as they go, which is good. They should tweak

01:05:16   it. It's, you know, the design is as tweakable as the code is, really, if you're trying to

01:05:21   decide like, "Oh, that doesn't work. Let's make some changes there."

01:05:25   I also like that there is a new Spotlight UI on the iPad. So when you hit Command Space

01:05:31   on a keyboard now, it doesn't actually take you back to the home. It doesn't take you

01:05:37   back to the home anymore, it's the same for command tab, it just overlays, fantastic.

01:05:42   So great, yeah that was always kind of a bizarre thing where you'd hit command space and it

01:05:46   would move you to the home screen and then bring up search.

01:05:51   And that animation was timing you'd be typing.

01:05:54   Exactly.

01:05:55   You don't need to do that anymore, so I'm really excited about that.

01:05:58   It's very smart, it shows some consideration.

01:06:01   I'm going to throw out my favorite minor feature.

01:06:05   I think widgets in general, they talked about them, but I think they've got a lot of potential.

01:06:10   I'm excited about them.

01:06:11   But one of my pet features is getting addressed, which is if you have an external keyboard

01:06:18   attached to an iPad and you go to settings, keyboard, you will see a submenu for external

01:06:25   hardware keyboard.

01:06:26   I think it's called hardware keyboard.

01:06:29   it lets you turn autocorrect and autocapitalization on or off for the hardware keyboard.

01:06:37   That's great.

01:06:38   It's so great. It's so great because, you know, as I've said before, I love autocorrect

01:06:45   on software keyboards and hated on hardware keyboards because I know how to type words

01:06:50   correctly with a hardware keyboard. Turns out, not with a software keyboard though,

01:06:54   I don't know at all that. So, and that's in there. So that's a feature that I think is

01:06:59   going to be great. I'm very excited about it. And then the other thing I'd mention,

01:07:03   which again, I guess it doesn't count as one of Nathan's minor features, but I've gotten

01:07:07   a chance to play with Swift playgrounds. Another topic we'll probably talk about later this

01:07:12   summer as this goes along. But it's great. It's just, it's great. They're not kidding.

01:07:19   They built just with the tutorials that they built, you know, they're building educational

01:07:23   tools inside this development playground app that they built and I think it's going to

01:07:28   be very popular in various sorts of education programs. So it's exciting.

01:07:35   David: Julian asked, "Do you think that we'll get individual upgrades from the Apple-built

01:07:40   apps inside of iOS 10 now that they're featured in the App Store?" This was discussed on the

01:07:45   talk show as well. They went into a bit of detail here. So in case you don't know, you'll

01:07:50   be able to remove the Apple applications from your phone now so you can remove mail, you

01:07:54   can remove calendar, etc.

01:07:56   Well from your screen.

01:07:58   Exactly, because they're not actually App Store apps. Apple is using the App Store as

01:08:03   the obvious way for people to get these applications back to their devices. But even if you delete

01:08:08   an app, in air quotes, from your phone, the resources for these apps continue to be a

01:08:13   part of the OS, but you just disable the application from view and remove the user data attached

01:08:18   to it. They will still be updated of each iOS release.

01:08:21   Yeah, so they're part of the system bundle and they actually said one of the reasons

01:08:25   why this is the case is that cryptographically the OS is signed and if you make changes to

01:08:31   the OS binary including these stock apps, it breaks the signature, it breaks the verification

01:08:39   of it. You can't do that. So they would have to remove them all and then download them

01:08:44   all and they're integrated with the system so they can't do that. So somebody

01:08:48   said it's actually a lot like what Microsoft had to do with Internet Explorer

01:08:51   which it was so deeply embedded in the system but they could basically let you

01:08:55   delete the icon if you really didn't want it there and it's a little bit like

01:09:00   that and what's interesting is that, and Schiller talked about it, it's like

01:09:05   what's our UI for bringing them back and they just decided the App Store is the

01:09:11   the UI. So I think Schiller got a big laugh when he said if you go to restore mail and

01:09:16   you tap that download button it's going to be really fast because it's not actually downloading

01:09:21   anything it's just bringing the icon back.

01:09:25   Yeah so I think that's fine with me yeah it's fine with me I just want to do it right because

01:09:30   if you delete an application where would you go to get it back.

01:09:34   Yeah and I'm fine with this approach because I'm not concerned about the size of these

01:09:41   apps, I more like just want them to go away and not clutter up my app search and not get

01:09:47   in my way because if I don't use them I just want them to go away. And this will make them

01:09:52   out of sight. If the stocks app is still lurking there behind the scenes, whatever, I don't

01:09:57   care. I just don't want to see it.

01:09:58   >> Myke asked, "Does watchOS 3 replace the home screen, if so with what?" So this is

01:10:04   something that we weren't sure of last week so it's also a bit of follow up. The honeycomb

01:10:08   as we call it, I think Serenity called it the carousel, I don't even know what it's

01:10:12   called but the home screen with all the little circle icons still exists in watchOS 3, it's

01:10:20   just being de-emphasized now I think.

01:10:22   Yeah that's where you go if you want to launch an arbitrary app that's not in your

01:10:27   dock, it's not on a complication, you can go to the home screen or you can use Siri

01:10:32   to open it and those are ways of doing it.

01:10:34   Think of it as like your second screen on your iPhone.

01:10:37   >> I kind of wish they would give you at least the option of viewing it as a list instead

01:10:43   of just those icons. But yeah, so it's still there. It's just that's the, I mean the dock

01:10:49   metaphor is a good one which is you've got your Mac apps that you put in your dock and

01:10:54   then you've got your applications folder that has everything.

01:10:57   >> It's funny that they drew from Mac OS instead of iOS for naming conventions and the kind

01:11:04   of overall thinking.

01:11:05   Well I mean there is a dock on iOS too but it's not, I mean this seems very much more

01:11:11   like a Mac OS dock where it's down at the bottom and it kind of pops up and you can

01:11:17   cycle through them and it's, yeah, but that's the story. So it's still there but I think

01:11:23   what Apple would like is for you not to need it very often.

01:11:28   Craig wants to know, and I'm directing this 100% to you, do you know any of the specifics

01:11:34   about the new Apple File System? Well, there's a session that you can watch on the developer

01:11:41   site or in the WWDC app, and I believe anybody can watch those. It's dry. I asked John Siracusa

01:11:46   about that session, and he's like, "Eh, it's not that exciting," and he really cares about

01:11:51   the file system. But, you know, there's a bunch of cool stuff in there. There are, I

01:11:58   think it's going to dramatically improve Time Machine, because Time Machine is a hack. They

01:12:02   make all these hard links and it's just it's it's such a hack and they're going

01:12:07   to be able to throw that away on these new systems and do it in a completely

01:12:11   different way that should be a lot more efficient. It's got some new concepts in

01:12:15   terms of making duplicates of your files like making a copy of a file now when

01:12:20   you make a copy it's sort of like downloading the mail app from the App

01:12:24   Store it's instant because when you make a copy it actually just makes a new file

01:12:28   icon that's pointing at the same data on the drive and then as you modify those files they

01:12:34   will gradually diverge on the disk.

01:12:36   >>WES It sounds horrifying.

01:12:37   >>JEFF But it saves--well no, it's actually really clever. So if you've got like a package

01:12:43   with 300 files in it and you make a copy of it and you start to edit that, rather than

01:12:49   making a duplicate of the space on your hard drive somewhere else--

01:12:53   >>WES Excuse them.

01:12:54   Yeah, and then over time, like, as you make changes, those changes save to the disk, along

01:13:01   with the stuff that remains on the disk from the previous file, and it all just works.

01:13:06   And I mean, it sounds scary until you realize that, like, all your files are scattered around

01:13:11   on your disk and the file system is managing them anyway. So it's just, it's more of that.

01:13:15   But it's smarter, there's like file-level encryption that's happening, I think it's

01:13:19   going to allow better security between like different users on the disk. There's, it's

01:13:26   like timestamps down to the nanosecond, snapshots for like the ability to say take a snapshot

01:13:34   of the system and then restore it later which is going to be good I think especially in

01:13:37   like lab conditions when you need to wind the system back to a pristine state after

01:13:44   a kid has been messing around with it all day in a classroom. A bunch of other stuff,

01:13:49   the one thing that it does not have in this current version anyway, and John Syracuse

01:13:54   talked about this, is it doesn't seem to have data protection in the sense of checking files

01:14:00   to see if they have, if the bits have changed. This is John's famous thing about, like, my

01:14:08   photos, you know, as my photos get backed up and copied, have they been broken or do

01:14:13   do they still have integrity? Have there been errors introduced in my files that you can

01:14:17   have the silent error introduced and that one starts to get backed up and you lose the

01:14:22   original and he said this doesn't have that but it's not like they couldn't add it to

01:14:27   this. This is a thoroughly modern file system and although that presentation is dry and

01:14:32   not the most exciting, something I took out of it that I was very impressed by is the

01:14:38   scope of what they had to do here because what the file system people were asked to

01:14:42   build was a tool to scale from devices as small as the Apple Watch to as big and

01:14:48   powerful as the Mac Pro and they and all devices are going to run this file

01:14:53   system so yeah that that's quite a challenge but it's a I think it's it's

01:14:59   going to be good it's not going to really impact anybody until next year

01:15:02   because the version of it now is a test version that you basically can't do

01:15:05   anything with it and that's good because nobody should do things on a beta

01:15:10   file system but but in the end I think it will provide a lot more file system

01:15:15   integrity be more resilient across crashes like power outages and things

01:15:21   like that just all all of those things that a file system I meant to ask Phil

01:15:25   Schiller this but like I remember getting briefed about HFS+ in 1998 at MacWorld

01:15:30   probably by Phil Schiller and that was a long time ago and that was the last

01:15:37   major file system update for Apple. So they've come a long way. Time for a new

01:15:41   file system. So 2017 will be that time. And final question this week, John asked,

01:15:45   "What effect on battery are we expecting from all of this on-device processing of

01:15:50   photos? Are we looking at background tasks or on-demand?" And apparently the

01:15:55   bulk of this processing happens at night when your device is plugged in and

01:15:59   charging, and then for every photo that's taken it then does it automatically. Yeah,

01:16:04   just as you snap the photo it does all the processing and Federici said at the

01:16:08   talk show that you know the GPU is doing this and he said it sounds like a lot

01:16:14   it's an impressive number of calculations it does however many

01:16:17   million calculations it does but that's a fraction of a second for the GPU on an

01:16:21   iPhone fraction of a second so they do that on the fly they do all the data

01:16:25   analysis embedded in the metadata and then move along but yeah I upgraded our

01:16:30   a test phone to iOS 10 and left it plugged in and it sort of stayed warm overnight. But

01:16:37   it processed even with iCloud photo library where it didn t have all the images on the

01:16:42   device at full quality, it still processed everything and the next day I was able to

01:16:46   search for lakes or cats and find photos in my phone. Yeah, I looked for lakes and cats

01:16:53   because I'm different that way. Valleys and cows and it didn't find any cows. But anyway

01:17:01   it is going to do that when it's in a restful state. It's plugged in and on Wi-Fi and it

01:17:07   will churn but then it just happens every time you take a shot that shot is processed

01:17:14   and analyzed with all of Apple's machine learning deep thought API blah blah blah brain power

01:17:23   thing.

01:17:24   All right so that brings us to the end of our scope grade which brings us to the end

01:17:28   of this week's episode if you'd like to find our show notes head on over to relay.fm/upgrades/94

01:17:33   in fact to find Jason online he's over at sixcolors.com and the incomparable.com and

01:17:40   you can find Jason at Jason LJ s ne double L on Twitter I am at I Myke I am

01:17:45   y ke thanks again to our lovely sponsors for this week's episode ministry of

01:17:49   supply pingdom and PDF pen from smile thank you all for listening we will be

01:17:56   back next week until then say goodbye just so goodbye everybody

01:18:03   [ Music ]