85: Talk to this Cylinder


00:00:00   (beep)

00:00:00   (upbeat music)

00:00:03   From Relay FM, this is Upgrade.

00:00:16   Episode number 85, Upgrade is brought to you

00:00:18   by PDF Pen Pro from Smile, Mail Route, and ITProTV.

00:00:22   I'm Jason Snell, and once again,

00:00:25   my co-host, Myke Hurley, is on assignment.

00:00:27   He went to the Atlanta Pen Show

00:00:28   where they clicked pens.

00:00:32   I don't understand how pens work.

00:00:34   Anyway, so joining me, it takes two people

00:00:36   to fill Myke's shoes.

00:00:39   Each of you gets a shoe.

00:00:40   My guests this week are Scott McNulty.

00:00:43   Hi, Scott.

00:00:44   I'm the right shoe.

00:00:45   And in the left shoe, it's Dan Morin.

00:00:48   Hi, left shoe.

00:00:49   Hi, this is the worst version of Hollywood Squares ever.

00:00:54   You guys are my special guest nemeses,

00:00:57   because you're often pitted against each other in games of chance or skill.

00:01:00   I don't really know what that means.

00:01:02   Although the history of that is lost into time, I believe.

00:01:06   The origin of our nemesis.

00:01:07   Nematude?

00:01:08   Nemesis?

00:01:09   You've always just been at odds.

00:01:10   That's right.

00:01:11   That's just how it works.

00:01:12   As long as the universe has been around, I have despised you, Morin.

00:01:16   So I invited you both for particular reasons, and also we do talk a lot on the Incomparable

00:01:22   podcast which which I host every week as well but I thought it would be fun for us to talk

00:01:27   about computer things and technology things. So thank you for filling Myke's shoes left

00:01:34   and right.

00:01:35   Very comfortable Myke. Thank you.

00:01:36   Here's how this show usually starts is we have some follow up. So I'm going to do some

00:01:40   follow up now. Listener Jeremy wrote in. We were talking about me recording last week

00:01:47   from Arizona where I was on assignment with my family and he was asking if I could use

00:01:55   in this two iOS device method that I used to record the podcast where I was recording

00:01:59   on my iPhone while talking on Skype and also looking at the show notes and things on my

00:02:03   iPad. And listener Jeremy said, "Couldn't you use a USB interface and a splitter to

00:02:10   push audio between the devices for a fairly seamless recording?" And I thought this

00:02:15   was a good point. You could probably bodge something together that would

00:02:19   allow the mic input from the iPad to be, or from the, what, from Skype to split and

00:02:26   go into a different mixer and then have the... and this is my point is you could

00:02:32   probably figure it out but I kind of don't want to do that. It worked fine.

00:02:35   Anybody who's used like a Blue Snowball or something like that, it was the same

00:02:39   experience. You can't hear, your own voice isn't kind of fed back to you, which is a

00:02:43   more pleasant thing when you are podcasting you can tell when you're too

00:02:46   loud or too soft or your peas are popping or anything like that but it was

00:02:51   fine and that's going to be my go-to remote recording thing now is to you

00:02:57   know my iPhone and my iPad if I don't have a mac around because I usually if I

00:03:01   don't have a mac around I've got both of those around but it's not yet the dream

00:03:03   which is that I could like Dan you you did the our Star Wars Rogue One podcast

00:03:09   for the incomparable in a conference convention center

00:03:13   - Yeah, that was a good experience.

00:03:16   - At the Seattle Comic-Con, and it was one of those things

00:03:17   where it turned out fine, but I had to kind of patch you in

00:03:21   from my recording of your voice, and the dream would be,

00:03:24   in the future, maybe iOS 10, iOS 11, who knows when,

00:03:27   but the dream would be that we would be able to do that,

00:03:30   and you would still have a local high-quality audio file

00:03:35   to send me when you were done,

00:03:37   but we just aren't there yet,

00:03:39   you weren't juggling multiple iOS devices while walking through a convention center.

00:03:44   Right. Yeah, I didn't have most of them on me. I mean, the problem with bringing an interface,

00:03:47   too, is at that point, have you really saved anything over bringing a Mac?

00:03:51   Yeah, well…

00:03:52   I mean, like, especially like an 11-inch error or something, which I know you've had in

00:03:55   the past.

00:03:56   I do?

00:03:57   Yeah, that's not that much bigger, and in theory, then lets you do all those things.

00:04:00   So like, if your goal is just to have, you know, less stuff to carry around, I feel like

00:04:05   adding an interface into the mix means like, well, should I do that or just throw a laptop

00:04:09   in my bag?

00:04:10   I'm always bringing my little USB box with me, but this would be a second one, right?

00:04:14   It's like, yeah.

00:04:15   That's a lot of boxes.

00:04:16   That's probably, it's probably too many.

00:04:18   But anyway, the dream is alive.

00:04:21   We'll keep watching it.

00:04:22   You know we will.

00:04:23   Another one, this is in the category of I love things that come in when Myke is not

00:04:28   around that I get to talk about.

00:04:30   Listener Read sent in a link.

00:04:32   There were a bunch of these going around.

00:04:34   was a link to a Verge article about some items that Apple has been dropping in frameworks

00:04:42   and in documents on its website referring to Mac OS instead of OS X, and this was a

00:04:48   Mac OS in a technical document with a capital M for Mac, but closed up. And there's much

00:04:56   speculation that we've had, and I've been talking about it for like a year now, and

00:04:59   Phil Schiller lent a lot of credence to it when he talked to John Gruber and said that

00:05:03   there was sort of a method to Apple's madness with iOS and tvOS and watchOS. So as listener

00:05:11   reads says, could it be that #JasonWasRight about Mac OS changing. What do you guys think

00:05:18   about about having OS X and the big X kind of fade away and go back actually to calling

00:05:25   a Mac OS?

00:05:26   Steven: I think we can all agree Myke was wrong.

00:05:28   Jared. Well, sure, we should do that because he can't defend himself. So absolutely. Although

00:05:32   Although I do think the X, so the X stood for 10, right?

00:05:36   Because OS 9 was before OS 10.

00:05:39   People love Roman numerals.

00:05:41   It's true, and it's been stuck at 10 for a long time.

00:05:43   Yeah.

00:05:44   So I feel like there is a chance for Apple, if I were working in Apple marketing, I probably

00:05:49   wouldn't be on this podcast, but I would also be chomping at the bit to have something new

00:05:56   to brand around, because OS 10 is kind of, it's getting a little long in the tooth from

00:06:01   a branding perspective, I imagine.

00:06:02   My daughter is a freshman in high school and the X predates her existence.

00:06:08   So it's been a long time now.

00:06:10   Well, in fact, it's been almost as long.

00:06:12   I mean, the original Mac OS, so 1984 to 2001 when OS X came out.

00:06:17   It depends on-- OS 9 died.

00:06:18   Because there's the public beta and OS 9 was still there.

00:06:21   They had the funeral at what point, like 2002 maybe?

00:06:24   Yeah.

00:06:25   At 2003, somewhere in there.

00:06:26   And so, I mean, we're approaching that plan.

00:06:28   I mean, it's 15--

00:06:29   It's 2002.

00:06:30   --15 years.

00:06:31   So that was what 18 years I guess and we're at 15 years with OS X. That's pretty close very close point

00:06:37   X was a big thing to like just the iconography of an X

00:06:41   I feel like that was back when like

00:06:43   You know when the E prefix and the I prefix that we have now used so often it was like hip and extreme

00:06:48   And now yeah, and now it's been it's kind of old now

00:06:52   So and I think what's interesting to me about it is you know a lot of people were sort of saying

00:06:57   Well if they want to keep things consistent. We've got lowercase TV OS lowercase iOS lowercase watch OS

00:07:02   Maybe it'll be lowercase Mac OS and I was on that train too

00:07:05   But when it seems like every time they put it in print it's with capital M

00:07:08   Which I think is probably because unlike TV watch and the letter I those are all generic

00:07:13   Whereas Mac is actually like a trademark and like a specific thing so maybe that's rationale for making that

00:07:19   capitalizes

00:07:20   It's not generic like TV or watch and none of us think that they're gonna like turn all of the Mac

00:07:26   products into lowercase, like, get your iMac and it's a lowercase i, lowercase m. And it's

00:07:30   like, that's not gonna happen.

00:07:32   That's your iMac.

00:07:33   That's your iMac.

00:07:34   Yeah.

00:07:35   The e-Cummings computer company.

00:07:36   It's like a iMac, but it's a computer.

00:07:37   That's true.

00:07:38   And wouldn't they be—I'm not a trademark lawyer.

00:07:41   I should point to that.

00:07:43   What?

00:07:44   You're fired again.

00:07:45   Darn it.

00:07:46   Why'd you get on this podcast?

00:07:47   I just opened Skype and here I am.

00:07:49   That's a have-to.

00:07:51   But if they start referring to it as lowercase m, I feel like that then they could lose their

00:07:55   trademark right and it could become like Kleenex has this problem where they are like, "No,

00:07:59   we're not a generic brand. We are a brand and it means a lot of stuff and it's our,

00:08:04   we own it." And Xerox famously also has this problem. So I'm sure Apple does not want to

00:08:08   go down that route.

00:08:09   Tim Cynova The Mac is capital M and they should stick

00:08:13   with it.

00:08:14   Jared Polin Yeah, but that's good.

00:08:15   Tim Cynova People don't talk about it. They also, like

00:08:16   Macintosh as a word was pushed out of the branding sphere, which is fine, but that was

00:08:22   a part of this same Mac OS branding is that like they finally were like look we're not

00:08:26   going to call it a power Macintosh we're not referring to as a Macintosh computer with

00:08:30   Mac as the cute name Mac is the name Mac OS is what it runs it all it's all like there

00:08:36   for the taking and it gets the X out of the way.

00:08:38   Yeah iPhones and iPads running iOS makes sense TV Apple TV is running TV OS makes sense Apple

00:08:45   Watch is running watch with Macs running OS 10 has always been a little bit of an out

00:08:49   I mean it was a little easier back in the day, but now it seems like a total outlier.

00:08:53   I think it's a good thing if they're going to go back to Mac OS.

00:08:55   And hey, I love the classic Mac OS.

00:08:57   I feel like it's bringing a little bit of that back.

00:09:00   >> Yeah.

00:09:01   >> Yeah.

00:09:02   >> All right.

00:09:03   >> Get rid of this multitasking.

00:09:04   >> That's right.

00:09:05   I want to set my memory partitions app by app.

00:09:07   >> Oh, RAM disks, everybody.

00:09:09   >> Here's how you do it.

00:09:10   You get info, and then you edit the number in the bottom of the get info box to how much

00:09:14   memory you think the app will need.

00:09:17   And then you close the window and you open the app and hope that it's okay.

00:09:21   That is...

00:09:22   It was a better time.

00:09:23   Yeah.

00:09:24   Simpler in its complexity.

00:09:25   How do you guys feel about managing startup items?

00:09:28   Oh, that's the best.

00:09:29   Conflict catcher.

00:09:30   Let's bring that back too.

00:09:31   Okay.

00:09:32   So basically what we're saying is if you don't remember any of that time, don't worry about

00:09:36   it.

00:09:37   Jason was right.

00:09:38   Sorry, Myke.

00:09:39   You're not here.

00:09:40   So next, I get to defend something Myke said, so that's fun.

00:09:45   whose name I didn't put down, oh well, said, "Did Myke really say that there are

00:09:49   more devices with the Force Touch trackpad than with 3D Touch, because you can do the

00:09:54   math of iPhone sales versus Mac sales?" And while I can't speak for Myke, he's not

00:09:59   here, so I will speak for Myke, I think he meant percentage of the install base. So when

00:10:03   we're talking about that, I think that there are more Macs with Force Touch percentage-wise

00:10:10   or capable, especially since you can just buy an accessory and give yourself Force Touch,

00:10:14   than the percentage of existing iPhones that are out there that have 3D touch.

00:10:21   That's not how the Force Touch works.

00:10:23   Yeah, I knew it was happening. That's a Star Trek reference, right Dan?

00:10:28   You can't just troll me because Scott is here. That's just not cool.

00:10:32   That's exactly why I control you. And one more bit of follow-up. Lister Morgan wrote in and said,

00:10:37   we were complaining about so many iPad Pro apps in the App Store show iPhone

00:10:42   preview screenshots, which is dumb, and we had no answer. It was a question that

00:10:46   somebody asked, and we were like, "Boy, the answer is it's a bug and it's dumb."

00:10:50   But Lister Morgan points out that

00:10:53   Lister Morgan's app has Pro screenshots that you see. So it sounds like what's

00:10:58   happening is

00:10:58   if the developer doesn't submit iPad Pro screenshots,

00:11:02   the App Store is showing iPhone screenshots, which is still a bug

00:11:06   because if there are iPad screenshots to be had even of the non-pro version, the non-big pro version,

00:11:13   that would probably be worth seeing. But it will display them apparently if they've been submitted

00:11:18   by the developer. So it says listen more. Now I'm picturing, I'm picturing, remember when the iPad

00:11:22   came out and it would run iPhone apps but in like either in 2x or like in native size but really

00:11:27   small? I'm picturing a native size iPhone app running on an iPad Pro. It's like just giant black

00:11:33   bezel everywhere. Pretty much. Or just run it in one-to-one, right? So it's just giant

00:11:40   black and then you can't touch any of the little touch targets because they're way

00:11:44   too small. I wonder if that's just, you know, the App Store by default just shows

00:11:48   iPhone. Yeah, it could be. That's the most prevalent iOS device so it's like, well,

00:11:53   if we have to pick one, iPhone. Well, probably, and the logic was probably if I don't have

00:11:57   the iPad screenshots, the screenshots from this class of device, I'm going to just

00:12:01   default to iPhone because there were only sort of two size classes of device. I guess

00:12:05   I don't know what the behavior is in terms of like if you've got a you know the five

00:12:09   that like a six and are the screenshots for five size screens and do they is there like

00:12:15   a cascade there that happens I don't know I'm sure developers know all about it because

00:12:19   I imagine if you're an app developer you're probably nodding along and saying yes I have

00:12:23   to take screenshots on like five different devices upload them.

00:12:27   Alright, that's the end of the follow-up. So we've got very exciting topics to talk

00:12:34   about with our special guest, but I want to stop for a moment and tell you about one of

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00:14:33   to smile for sponsoring this show and all of relay FM I know what those people

00:14:39   they just demand those office file formats it's just the world we live in

00:14:42   So, Scott, the impetus for me inviting you on was because there is a new Kindle on the

00:14:54   way.

00:14:55   What?

00:14:56   Have you not heard?

00:14:57   No.

00:14:58   I'm sure that you've already ordered it, even though you haven't heard of it.

00:15:01   If they put up a button that was like, "There's going to be a new Kindle," we could tell you

00:15:05   about it in a week or so, but if you'd just like to order it now, click this button, you'd

00:15:09   click the button, right?

00:15:10   I would click the button.

00:15:11   And I've often thought that Amazon should just give me a subscription to whatever Kindle

00:15:16   comes out.

00:15:17   I'll just – Kindle Prime or something, and I'll just – I'll sign up for it, and

00:15:20   they come and I won't question it.

00:15:22   That's actually kind of a great idea.

00:15:23   Like a phone – like a phone contract kind of thing.

00:15:28   Like every two years, you get the new Kindle.

00:15:30   Or every year, whatever.

00:15:31   One of the listeners has suggested an Amazon Dash button for Kindle in the chat room, which

00:15:35   I think is – that's a niche product, but I think one that Scott will use.

00:15:39   Yeah.

00:15:40   It's true.

00:15:41   dash buttons. I've been tempted, but…

00:15:43   I don't have any products. I don't buy any products. For people who don't know,

00:15:46   the dash button is this weird Amazon thing where you get a button that's got the name

00:15:53   of a brand on it, like All Detergent or Tide or whatever else. And when you are out of

00:16:00   that thing, you press the button and it automatically connects to your Wi-Fi and places an order

00:16:04   for that thing at Amazon. So it's literally just you stick it where you store your paper

00:16:10   towels and when you run out of paper towels you press the button and paper

00:16:15   towels appear in the next couple of days at your door. It's pretty weird. I don't

00:16:20   want to buy anything sold or processed or process anything sold or bought or any

00:16:25   of that so I'm not a dash-button guy unless it brings me burritos. Alright I'll

00:16:30   refer everybody to our Say Anything episode of Myke at the Movies for that.

00:16:34   Yeah so the new Kindle it's the Kindle Oasis and it's interesting because it's

00:16:40   It's like a $290 product, it comes with a case.

00:16:45   It is like the ultra premium luxury Kindle,

00:16:48   if there could be such a thing.

00:16:50   - With leather.

00:16:51   - With leather, of course,

00:16:52   because that makes it ultra premium.

00:16:54   - Rich Corinthian leather.

00:16:56   - Now we should start by explaining

00:16:58   our Kindle backgrounds here.

00:16:59   I have bought, I think, essentially one model

00:17:03   from every generation of Kindle.

00:17:04   I haven't bought, like, when they upgraded

00:17:06   the kind of base model of the Kindle

00:17:09   and they already had the paper white out.

00:17:10   I didn't go back and also buy the base model of the Kindle.

00:17:13   But I feel like in every generation,

00:17:15   a slayer is born, and also I bought a Kindle.

00:17:19   So I returned the first generation one

00:17:23   'cause I didn't think it was good enough.

00:17:24   But the second one I kept,

00:17:25   and I gave the second and third generation Kindles

00:17:29   to my parents at one point,

00:17:31   and then my mom gave them back to me

00:17:32   when she switched to the iPad

00:17:34   'cause she said she wasn't using her Kindle.

00:17:35   Then I gave them to my in-laws,

00:17:36   and they liked them so much that after about a year,

00:17:38   went and bought Paperwhites. And Scott, my understanding is that you have literally bought

00:17:45   like every e-reader ever released. Is that accurate?

00:17:49   That is inaccurate.

00:17:50   Oh, come on.

00:17:52   I'm sorry. I have bought... So my Kindle journey starts because I saw a show that was

00:17:59   talking about e-ink and I thought, "Oh my God, that's crazy." And then Sony at that

00:18:04   time was the only big player in ebook readers. So I bought one of Sony's e-readers a PRS-505.

00:18:12   If people--

00:18:13   Catchy!

00:18:14   The Sony people. I know, Sony, they're so great with branding. The hardware, fantastic.

00:18:19   It was nearly impossible to get a book onto this thing, though, which made it a little

00:18:25   less useful. And then about a week later, Amazon announced the Kindle at the time. I

00:18:30   they cost like $400 and the reader, the Sony reader also costs $400. So I bought the Kindle

00:18:37   and it was vastly superior in that I could actually get a book onto it easily, which

00:18:44   was, you know, mind blowing.

00:18:45   That's what you'd sort of expect from a company that's trying to sell you books

00:18:50   instead of the company that Sony, that's just trying to sell you the e-reader.

00:18:52   That's right.

00:18:53   Then walk away.

00:18:54   And that's what they did.

00:18:56   And I was like, I can't use this thing.

00:18:59   So the Kindle, the first Kindle had a weird design,

00:19:03   which I kind of like.

00:19:04   And the Oasis has some echoes of that same design, actually.

00:19:10   And then I've bought a bunch of Kindle since then.

00:19:12   I wrote a book about the Kindle that

00:19:13   was available only on the Kindle, which

00:19:14   seemed like an error on my publisher's part

00:19:17   that they wanted to try it.

00:19:18   So we did it.

00:19:19   Nobody bought it.

00:19:22   I wrote a follow-up book about the Kindle

00:19:24   about the Kindle that actually came out in print that sold a little bit better.

00:19:26   I have a Kobo, I have some Kobos, I have a couple of Nooks. I like e-readers is what I'm saying.

00:19:33   Yes, so you don't necessarily have all of them. Did you ever, you bought a Kindle DX, didn't you?

00:19:37   I have two Kindle DX. Someone tweeted me and said, "Hey Scott, do you have a Kindle DX?" And I said,

00:19:42   "No, I have two Kindle DXs," because they came out with two versions. So much like you, Jason,

00:19:47   I buy kind of the whatever the newest Kindle is of the generation.

00:19:52   So I don't have like the $50 or $40 entry level Kindle or $80.

00:19:59   I don't even know how much it costs.

00:20:01   But it's crap because I've used it.

00:20:03   Don't buy it.

00:20:05   So I have usually the top of the line one.

00:20:08   I had the first of those sort of keyboardless Kindles that they made with the page turn buttons.

00:20:14   and that's essentially, I think, what that low-end Kindle is now, is that. But it's not...

00:20:21   No, I don't. Lauren left it in the seatback pocket of an airplane once, so I was like,

00:20:27   "That's fine. It's fine."

00:20:29   Yeah, but the low-end Kindle does not actually have buttons, so...

00:20:32   Not anymore. It's worse now.

00:20:35   It is worse. They got rid of the buttons. Yeah, for a long time. It's interesting, because

00:20:39   stacking up my Kindles in preparation and looking at how they have evolved throughout time.

00:20:44   And so the first Kindle had lots of buttons, and it had this weird silver

00:20:49   rolly thing and big flappy buttons, turn buttons, and then the next one had,

00:20:54   you know, slightly fewer buttons. They just kept progressing to less and less buttons, and now

00:20:58   the latest premium Kindle, the buttons are back.

00:21:02   >> The buttons are back.

00:21:04   >> It's crazy.

00:21:04   >> It is.

00:21:05   >> Well, there are only two of them, but.

00:21:05   >> It's better than none.

00:21:08   It's the only Kindle, so the Voyage has those page press things, which are kind of like buttons, but they're not really buttons, which are an improvement, I think. But I think I'd like a button.

00:21:20   Yeah, actual physical button, not an area on the screen where if you press hard enough, it slightly vibrates and the page turns. It's not quite a button.

00:21:29   Like, they're like, "What if we gave you something that wasn't a button but acted like a button?" Nope. Nope, that's not it.

00:21:35   not it. I can see what you're going for, but... Dan, what's your history with Kindles?

00:21:40   You just bought a Paperwhite. Is that your first Kindle? No, that's my second Kindle.

00:21:45   Up until that point, I've had for many years the... I don't know, remember what generation

00:21:50   it is, maybe Scott will know. It's the one that has the little D-pad on the bottom. It

00:21:54   was the low-end Kindle at one point. I think prior to this most recent incarnation, it

00:21:58   has physical Patreon buttons. Does it have the keyboard? It doesn't have an actual keyboard.

00:22:02   has a version of a keyboard.

00:22:03   >> The Kindle 4, does it have the little keypad and like four buttons, two on each side?

00:22:08   >> Yeah, yeah, like a back button, a home button, a keyboard button.

00:22:10   >> That's the one that Lauren left in the seatback pocket.

00:22:13   >> Yeah.

00:22:14   >> Did you, were you on my flight, Dan?

00:22:16   Did you get that from the seatback pocket?

00:22:18   >> I, it was a free Kindle.

00:22:19   I don't know, I don't ask where it came from.

00:22:21   No, I bought it a few years ago and just when, at that point when I think it was so cheap,

00:22:25   I was like, oh, you know what, I've kind of been interesting in checking out a Kindle.

00:22:28   I'll just buy this one because it's really very affordable.

00:22:32   And I really liked it.

00:22:32   I've read many books on it.

00:22:34   I have a nice case for it.

00:22:36   And it served me pretty well,

00:22:39   but I think the other day,

00:22:42   what, a week or two ago,

00:22:43   the Paperwhite and a bunch of the other Kindles

00:22:45   were on sale right before they announced

00:22:47   the Oasis for real.

00:22:49   And I thought, well, everybody raves about the Paperwhite.

00:22:51   I know it's the wire cutter's recommendation

00:22:53   and everybody seems to really like it.

00:22:55   So it was like under a hundred bucks.

00:22:57   So I was like, you know what?

00:22:58   It's time to upgrade.

00:22:58   It's time to upgrade.

00:22:59   So I bought the Paperwhite.

00:23:01   I really enjoyed it so far.

00:23:03   I'm currently in the market for a case for it,

00:23:05   but it's my second Kindle.

00:23:06   I really appreciate, I think the biggest thing for me is,

00:23:09   I really enjoy reading on the E Ink screen,

00:23:11   as I think Scott was alluding to.

00:23:13   I find it more pleasurable than reading on the iPad,

00:23:16   at least for books, and I think the big advantage

00:23:19   of the Paperwhite for me is that really

00:23:21   that higher quality screen, I don't know what the resolution

00:23:24   of the older Kindle is, but it is clearly not as good

00:23:28   as the 300 DPI screen on the Paperwhite.

00:23:31   So I've been very pleased with that

00:23:33   because I find that text very sharp

00:23:35   and very, you know, much more close to a printed book page.

00:23:39   So I've really been enjoying that.

00:23:41   I like how simple it is.

00:23:42   I mean, I know there are some people go back and forth

00:23:45   on whether they like the touchscreen

00:23:46   versus the physical buttons,

00:23:47   and I can see the appeal of the physical buttons,

00:23:49   but the touchscreen on that is totally fine for me.

00:23:52   And the software is miles better

00:23:56   than on the fourth generation Kindle,

00:23:57   That's the one where they just recently I think said like you have to upgrade to this version of the software

00:24:02   Otherwise, you know, you'll never get upgrade when you die. Yeah, if you die in the Kindle you die in real life

00:24:07   And that's so good. So, you know having the the latest version of the software is definitely a lot more modern

00:24:15   Hey look pictures of the books that I'm reading rather than just like a an itemized list of books on my Kindle

00:24:21   But that old one I think is gonna go to my mom who has never really used a Kindle

00:24:26   She has an iPad, but she doesn't really read ebooks at all.

00:24:29   I mean, granted, she's also a former librarian, so she tends to get a lot of stuff out of libraries,

00:24:33   which, like, you can do, obviously, with the Kindle, but they go to the library a lot.

00:24:38   So I asked her if she wanted it, and she kind of waffled about it and said, "Yeah, I guess I should check it out."

00:24:42   So I'm going to get her that one, and if she enjoys it and uses it enough, then we'll bump her up to something nicer.

00:24:48   So let's talk about the Oasis. It's an interesting product.

00:24:53   It is the the Paperwhite is remaining around the voyage which was the high-end model before which I've got here

00:25:01   Is and Scott we talked about that the last time I think you were on upgrade

00:25:06   We talked about the voyage because it had just come out

00:25:08   It's it's I I so I have the Paperwhite and and the voyage here and I'm reminded

00:25:14   That the voyage is nicer than the Paperwhite and I think the story is not that the voyages is is is bad in any way

00:25:21   it's just

00:25:22   While it's nicer than the Paperwhite, it is hard for me to recommend it to people over the Paperwhite because

00:25:27   the Paperwhite's a lot cheaper, and it's, you know, you're paying--what are you paying for? Those funny, like, squeeze--

00:25:33   the squeeze the bezel feature and the fact that it's--that the screen is a little bit recessed on the Paperwhite and it's totally flat

00:25:39   on the Voyage. I mean, and the Voyage is a little smaller. There are things about it that are a little bit nicer,

00:25:43   but I can never, in good conscience,

00:25:45   recommend it over the Paperwhite for most people because it's just, you know, it's a--it's--it's

00:25:52   mostly the same and the refinements for most people I doubt are worth the extra money.

00:25:57   But here comes the Oasis which is doing it again, right? It's like even higher up there at $290.

00:26:04   Granted you get the case with it and the case has a battery in it so it can charge the, you know,

00:26:10   charge the Kindle and give it a very, very long battery life and instead of having it be a

00:26:14   separate purchase so that the case price is kind of rolled into there. But it's super thin, it's

00:26:19   It's got physical buttons.

00:26:21   The screen appears to be basically this 300 dpi screen that has not evolved in the last

00:26:26   couple of years.

00:26:27   They say the backlighting is better, or the sidelighting, whatever it is.

00:26:31   It's different technology from a backlight because it's a reflective screen.

00:26:35   So Scott, what do you think about the Oasis?

00:26:38   Where does it fit and why does it exist?

00:26:41   Well, I saw you maybe in Slack or on Twitter talking about how you were disappointed that

00:26:47   it's the same screen as the the voyage you were hoping I imagine as everyone

00:26:51   was hoping that it would be higher resolution but if Kindle Apple Amazon

00:26:56   uses I just named a bunch of brands Amazon uses the e-ink which is the name

00:27:03   of a company yes plays right and so this is I think it's the pearl maybe this is

00:27:06   their highest end screen that they make so it's not too surprising that they

00:27:11   haven't they haven't come out with a 600 dpi e-ink not yet and I imagine I'm sure

00:27:17   I'm sure they're feverishly working on it.

00:27:19   There are some people on the Kindle web,

00:27:22   which I don't know if that's a thing or not, but now it is.

00:27:24   We're hoping that it would be a color screen

00:27:29   because Amazon a couple years ago bought a company

00:27:31   called Liqua Vista, which makes this color screen

00:27:36   that is low power consumption, it's reflective,

00:27:38   it uses a different technology than e-ink,

00:27:40   it uses electro-wetting, which sounds dirty, but it isn't.

00:27:44   (laughing)

00:27:45   been to a few electro weddings, they're usually quite fun affairs.

00:27:47   >> It's true. Just bring your wetsuit. And so, people were, there was a lot of,

00:27:54   as with all these things, Jeff Bezos tweeted this thing that said, "Hey, we're going to have a new

00:27:59   Kindle next week." And everybody suddenly had their dream Kindle in their mind that they were hoping

00:28:04   would come out. The biggest one I think is waterproof. Everybody wants a waterproof

00:28:08   Kindle. Even just Jeff Bezos, right, famously reads his Kindle in his bathtub in a Ziploc bag,

00:28:13   which seems weird, but hey, I've done it.

00:28:17   - It works, he's a supervillain, guys, it's okay.

00:28:20   - It's true, he is on a rocket as he's doing it, so.

00:28:23   So I think that Amazon is just doing this thing

00:28:27   where they create a high-end product

00:28:29   that will then trickle down the technology

00:28:31   into other lower-end products,

00:28:34   and this is made for people who, like you and I, Jason,

00:28:38   just buy whatever the latest Kindle is

00:28:40   because we're excited about the technology

00:28:42   we really use our Kindles a lot, and so any slight improvement is welcome because I use,

00:28:47   probably of all my devices, I use my phone the most and then probably my Kindle second to most

00:28:53   because I'm staring at it as I'm reading a book. And anything that makes it a more pleasant

00:28:58   experience and basically makes the Kindle go away because you just want to be lost in a book is worth

00:29:04   it, in my opinion, but I am not a normal consumer. So, much like you, Jason, I wouldn't recommend

00:29:09   the oasis to someone who is just kind of a casual ebook reader.

00:29:13   It's for weirdos like us, basically.

00:29:16   It is for weirdos like us. And for a way for Amazon to fiddle around with stuff and see what

00:29:22   is working and what isn't. It was interesting, they had this press event and they kind of

00:29:27   outlined what their goal was, and their goal with the Kindle is to create a piece of paper

00:29:32   on which you can read any book ever written. And so if you're thinking in that term,

00:29:39   then the Oasis makes a lot of sense because they're just trying to get rid of everything

00:29:42   other than the screen. And they also did some research about how long it takes to turn a page,

00:29:47   and when you're moving your thumb, it takes a little longer than if it's just

00:29:50   right by the page turn button, so they brought the buttons back to make it just kind of—they

00:29:54   want the device to disappear and you to just read, you know, see the story and whatever you're

00:29:59   reading. And so, I think that's what the Oasis is kind of a distillation of this philosophy of

00:30:05   of theirs. And they're charging a lot of money because I think weirdos like us are

00:30:08   going to pay for it.

00:30:09   Jared: Yeah. Well, and there's a market, and I do think that tech nerds also like us

00:30:16   often will roll their eyes at the Kindle. They're not listening now. They forwarded

00:30:20   to the next chapter already.

00:30:21   Steven, because I'm editing this episode, there'll be chapter markers in it. Pro tip,

00:30:27   I add chapters, Myke doesn't. That's how you can tell who edited the episode of anything.

00:30:30   So the—

00:30:31   the... Right, because it's a single-use device, right? And everyone's like, "Pfft!" Yeah, but I just use your iPad.

00:30:36   Or your iPhone. And the answer is that the

00:30:39   LCDs, even now... I took the new,

00:30:44   you know, less reflecty iPad Pro 9.7 inch outside in the

00:30:48   in the sunlight and, you know, even in like the shade of the tree in my

00:30:51   backyard. And it's like, it's not as good because there's

00:30:53   it's a lot less contrast because it's having to shine a bright light through

00:30:57   the screen in order to get

00:30:59   the images to hit your eye and it's different when it's the ambient light just reflecting

00:31:04   off of essentially, you know, the equivalent of a piece of paper. And also it doesn't send

00:31:09   me push notifications about things that are going on.

00:31:12   **Matt Stauffer** That's the thing. And it sounds crazy because we're all used to having

00:31:15   devices that do all these things. But when I'm reading a book on my Kindle, I am not tempted to,

00:31:20   oh, I should check Twitter or check my email. I feel like I do. It does let me zone into like

00:31:24   what I'm doing on the Kindle, which is reading a book, and I want to be immersed and engaged

00:31:29   in that. And so I'm not jilted out every 30 seconds when a new tweet comes in or something

00:31:34   like that. So I think there's a virtue to that. I mean, I think a lot of people pattern

00:31:38   this thinking like, "Well, the iPod was like a single-use device, and we all saw what ended

00:31:43   up with the iPod." But I don't think the, you know, the iPod, it's hard to argue that

00:31:49   the iPhone has not been, and smartphones in general, haven't been just, you know, innately

00:31:54   superior in 99% of the ways to the iPod. You know, there are some advantages to having a single-use

00:31:59   music player, but they're pretty slim. I think the iPad and such have not reached the same level of

00:32:07   superseding, essentially, with Kindles and eBook readers. They don't have all of the advantages,

00:32:13   or at least the things that they have as advantages, you know, they lack sort of those

00:32:17   killer advantages, like the ability to read in sunlight and super, you know, the screens, the

00:32:22   the ink screen etc so yeah I don't think this follows necessarily the pattern of

00:32:26   the iPod but I can understand why a lot of people feel like oh it must be it

00:32:32   must be superior to have a multi-function devices but in this case

00:32:36   might be more of a toaster fridge.

00:32:37   Yeah that's true and I mean I think Kindle is obviously for people who read

00:32:42   pretty frequently right if you read a book or two a year and there's nothing

00:32:45   wrong with that but you shouldn't be wasting your money on a Kindle.

00:32:48   Just buy those two bucks or go to the library and be done with it and be happy

00:32:51   with your iPad or read them on your iPad. That's fine. The Kindle isn't for you. Every

00:32:55   product doesn't need to be for everybody.

00:32:57   Right, and I do think that in the rubric of analysis of tech nerds, there is always the

00:33:03   single use devices are silly, and there's also this idea that, and it's a black and

00:33:08   white device, like why do we care? And I'm not sure a lot of those people are in the

00:33:13   target demographic of something like a Kindle, which is, you know, when I've talked to people

00:33:18   about Kindle use, the demographic is very different. This is, on some level, a cutting-edge

00:33:25   technology product that is used by way more women than men, I believe, and it's a much

00:33:32   older skewing audience than, especially your average iPad or smartphone. It's hitting

00:33:39   the reader market, which is traditionally older and more female, and that market loves

00:33:46   it, right? I mean, it's not a tech nerd product necessarily. It's a tech product,

00:33:51   and so it's easy for tech nerds to disparage it and be like, "Eh, whatever. It's a

00:33:54   Kindle. It's irrelevant." It's really not. And every time I go on a trip somewhere

00:34:00   and I'm out by the pool or walking along a beach or something like that, there are

00:34:04   Kindles everywhere. So it's one of these things that I think we get too deep down in

00:34:11   tech talk and lose track of the fact that there are a lot of people who are not in the

00:34:17   tech conversation who love these products because they are avid readers and it's a product

00:34:23   for avid readers.

00:34:25   So I still kind of would like to see a color ink display.

00:34:28   I mean they've worked on those for years and they're very hard to do.

00:34:32   I don't want color on my...

00:34:34   I mean if it was literally perfect and no worse and ideally better in every other way

00:34:41   and it had color, I guess I'd be okay with it,

00:34:43   but my concern is it's gonna be a step back

00:34:45   in order to give us color.

00:34:46   - Yes. - And I don't need color

00:34:48   in my plain text on a page,

00:34:51   which is mostly what I'm reading on a Kindle.

00:34:53   - Sure. - And if I were a betting man,

00:34:55   I think we would see the color e-ink display

00:34:57   on a Kindle Fire-like devices,

00:34:59   and they would keep the Kindle,

00:35:01   the black and white e-ink for a while

00:35:03   until it got to parity, or better actually, right?

00:35:06   'Cause to Jason's point,

00:35:07   I think color needs to be better.

00:35:09   - And not as it needs to be better.

00:35:10   I mean I don't think it would work very well even on the Fire because all the other stuff

00:35:13   you want to do on that probably wouldn't be good enough to do say video, right?

00:35:16   Certainly not.

00:35:17   But it might be good enough to render say graphic novels.

00:35:19   Actually the Liquavista display is all about playing video.

00:35:24   That's what they designed it for.

00:35:25   That's weird.

00:35:26   I mean it's still not good enough to be in production, but that's what their goal is

00:35:30   to make it a perfect low-power consumption video playing screen.

00:35:36   Strange.

00:35:37   Well…

00:35:38   Technology is weird.

00:35:39   So I also wanted to talk about, and this is for people who are still with us and want

00:35:45   to hear us talk about Apple a little bit. I got a little, when Scott was describing

00:35:50   the march of the buttons off of the Kindle, I had a Steve Jobs moment because famously,

00:35:56   you know, this is why Steve Jobs wore pullovers, is he hates buttons. There was that iPod shuffle

00:36:03   that had no buttons. The war on buttons is real, people. And Amazon was fighting it too.

00:36:09   had the power button and then they dropped all of the other buttons that used to be page

00:36:13   turn buttons and a home button that were physical buttons. And with the paper wipe, there are

00:36:17   no buttons. So on Dan's screen, if Dan wants to turn the page, he needs to tap or swipe

00:36:24   to do that. And on the Voyage, you can, like I said, squeeze the bezel in the designated

00:36:30   places to go forward or back, and it gives you a little haptic buzz and it turns the

00:36:36   page. But with the Oasis, they are not only bringing back physical buttons, but they've

00:36:45   expanded the bezel on one side. It's this kind of asymmetric thing where the bezel is

00:36:50   wider on one side. But I actually kind of love it, in theory, because I haven't actually

00:36:56   played with it yet, because one of the problems with the way that the Voyage is set up is

00:37:03   the bezel is so narrow that when you squeeze the little button,

00:37:07   you risk tapping the touchscreen next to the little button,

00:37:11   which I can't tell you how many times I've squeezed the page back button,

00:37:15   but my thumb has grazed and I've gone like two pages

00:37:18   back or two pages forward, or just by resting my thumb

00:37:23   on the button but not squeezing it yet, my thumb makes contact with the edge of

00:37:27   the screen and it turns the page when I don't want to.

00:37:29   It's just that there's a hardware usability problem

00:37:33   that it looks like they're recognizing when they made the expanded bezel on one side of the Oasis.

00:37:40   So it feels like they're actually paying attention to how people use their product, which is good,

00:37:43   and that they realize that physical buttons provide a level of feedback that no little haptic embedded in the Kindle can do.

00:37:52   I feel like they got so much grief for the original industrial design of the Kindle that they were like,

00:37:59   fine, we're going to make it look better. Who cares how it works? It'll look like every other

00:38:05   black slab in your life and you'll be happy." And then we realized, actually, for a Kindle,

00:38:12   maybe it shouldn't be like every other black slab in your life and it should maybe have a

00:38:17   weird shape because you're holding this thing in one hand generally and having a larger bezel so

00:38:23   that your thumb doesn't graze the screen, that happens to me all the time as well, Jason, is

00:38:27   actually a good thing. It may look kind of weird in product shots, but that's why in

00:38:32   almost every one of their product shots somebody's holding the darn thing because they want you

00:38:36   to see that yes, it may look weird because it's got kind of this big bulbous battery

00:38:41   thing and thin on one side and thick on the other, but that's because you're going to

00:38:47   hold this in your hand, dummy, and that's the way you should use it.

00:38:51   >> Yeah, as if we haven't spent all these years trying to design books to be held and

00:38:56   right? Like, you know, "Hey, books! Turns out there's a spine on only one side."

00:39:00   Weird. Like, we should make it some of the original kindles.

00:39:03   The original Kindle was just like that. People were like, "This is stupid and I hate it!"

00:39:07   Yeah, there were baffling things about the original Kindle's line. The one that always

00:39:10   got me was that it was white. And when you're using early generations of e-ink, where it

00:39:18   essentially—if you can think back to this, Scott, and you've got one in front of you right now,

00:39:21   now so I know you can't. It was a sort of dark grey text on a medium grey background.

00:39:29   The contrast of the screen was not great. And then you have the bright white plastic

00:39:33   bezel around it saying, "This is how white it should be, but it's not!" And it was just,

00:39:38   I don't know why they did that. It took them so long to get to grey or black for the bezel

00:39:43   where it made your eye think that that gray background was actually white. So there were

00:39:52   lots of weird things about it. But yeah, I agree. I think they pushed it too far. Maybe

00:39:56   they felt shame that they weren't fancy like so many other tech products were. And

00:40:02   I think the physical buttons should be on every Kindle, not just the highest of the

00:40:05   high-end ones. But yeah, what do you make of including the case with that? Is that just

00:40:12   a way to force everybody to buy a case or is there more to that? And then the fact that

00:40:18   it's got a second battery in it, so you have weeks and weeks of use.

00:40:22   Well, I think this is another, you know, obviously Amazon has a whole lot more data about how

00:40:27   people use their Kindles than we do, so I can only talk about how I use my Kindle. But

00:40:32   when I'm traveling, it is nice. I love my Kindle for the fact that I don't have to charge

00:40:37   it very often, right? I also hate my Kindle because I don't have to charge it very often

00:40:40   I never think about charging.

00:40:41   Yeah.

00:40:42   When I'm in the middle of a book, it says, "Hey, you need to charge your kindlers because

00:40:45   shut off."

00:40:46   And I'm like, "Ah, where's the cable?

00:40:47   I need to quickly get it."

00:40:48   Scott, don't you just switch to another Kindle at that point?

00:40:51   Well, I could do that as well.

00:40:53   Always have three Kindles at the ready for this.

00:40:55   If you have one Kindle, you have no Kindles.

00:40:59   If you have two Kindles, you have one Kindle.

00:41:01   That's the rule.

00:41:03   Exactly.

00:41:04   So I love the fact that, so e-ig, super low power consumption, you never have to charge

00:41:08   these things until you have to charge them, I guess, which is true of everything that you have

00:41:11   to charge. But it is. So the Kindle Oasis changes this. The actual device itself has a couple of

00:41:20   weeks charge, which is still a long time and long enough to forget to charge it. But when you have

00:41:25   the case, which you have to buy, it has a battery in it. And so they say that it lasts for months,

00:41:31   which is great because when you're traveling on your world, going around the world, because

00:41:37   people still do that, right? For months on end, you don't have to charge your gear.

00:41:40   Jared "Seth" Kuznicki Or you're hiking in the back country where there's no power.

00:41:43   Brian "Brent" Kuznicki Exactly. And so, I think of it less as a cover, because I think,

00:41:48   and I haven't used one either, but I think what's going to happen is you'll have it in the cover as

00:41:53   it's just kind of hanging out, and then you're going to take the cover off when you're going

00:41:56   to read because it makes it heavier and it's easy to take the cover off because it's magnets,

00:42:00   right? So, how do they work? So, you pull it apart, it's a light Kindle, you drop the cover

00:42:04   off and then when you're done put the cover back on and it's charging.

00:42:08   That's how I imagine how they envision people using it and I think that's how I'll use it

00:42:12   as well.

00:42:13   So I think it's actually a really clever idea.

00:42:15   I'm not sure there are some people who are like, "Oh, maybe there'll be a whole bunch

00:42:18   of other accessories that'll use this," because it has like a much like the smart whatever

00:42:23   the heck Apple calls the...

00:42:25   Smart connector.

00:42:26   Smart connector.

00:42:27   There you go.

00:42:28   Thank you, Dan.

00:42:29   It has the same kind of dealio, so perhaps there'll be more accessories for it.

00:42:33   I don't know if that's true or not because Amazon changes the Kindle form factor radically

00:42:36   every time.

00:42:37   So, it seems like it is not long for the world, but maybe that will show up on the Fire and

00:42:43   more stuff will be there for the Fire.

00:42:44   I don't know.

00:42:45   But I think it's a clever idea.

00:42:46   The one thing I don't like about the cover I have for my Kindle voyage, I have the origami

00:42:51   cover, which I love, which turns the cover, it's a cover and a little stand, so I can

00:42:55   just put it on a table or whatever.

00:42:57   And they have a leather version of it.

00:42:59   And I was kind of hoping that the Kindle battery cover Oasis thing, whatever they call it,

00:43:04   would have the origami feature, but it does not.

00:43:06   So that was kind of a bummer.

00:43:07   >> Wow.

00:43:08   >> Scott, well, here's a question for you, Scott.

00:43:10   You have, since you have so many Kindles, what is your daily reader Kindle?

00:43:13   Which one do you carry with you?

00:43:14   Which one do you travel with?

00:43:15   Do you switch or do you have just one that's sort of like your default use?

00:43:20   >> Well, I enjoy Kindles, but the previous generation Kindles have no worth for me.

00:43:23   So it's a Kindle voyage or nothing, right?

00:43:26   why would I want to use a crappier Kindle? I like them as a historic oddity, but I'm

00:43:32   never going to use my first generation Kindle to actually read anything.

00:43:35   No, I don't advise it. I don't advise it. And that's what I do, too. Lauren's got the

00:43:39   old Paperwhite and I've got the Voyage, and that's absolutely what I would use. You know,

00:43:45   the thing that really bugs me is that they still do, even on this high-end one, they

00:43:49   still do the special offers thing, and then you have to pay like 20 bucks to remove the

00:43:53   ads from the, and sometimes the offers are good, but it's just like you turn off your

00:43:57   Kindle and there's like an ad there. But what really bugs me is even if I pay, I don't get

00:44:03   to choose the screensaver. I have to use Amazon stock images on the screen. I still am baffled

00:44:09   about why they haven't made it so that you could like put your own images on there or

00:44:14   have it show the cover of the book that you're currently reading.

00:44:16   Yeah, the Kobo does that.

00:44:18   Yeah, well there are hacks for the older models that will do that too, although I'm not sure

00:44:23   whether the Jailbreak has brought it up to date with the Voyageette, it probably has.

00:44:29   They're always jailbreaking Kindles, believe it or not.

00:44:32   And I had that for a while and it was a lot of fun, but it's annoying that not only does

00:44:39   their base price include Kindle ads, Amazon ads, but when you pay to get it off you still

00:44:45   can't like customize it and personalize it in a way that you probably should but

00:44:48   I don't know. And they're bundling a cover with it so you're not gonna see

00:44:52   I can understand the ads with you know other kiddos that don't come with covers

00:44:56   because it's the screen saver thing right so you're gonna see the ad but we

00:45:00   have the cover if a cover comes with the thing the ad is gonna be covered up most

00:45:04   of the time. Yeah but when you open it up instead of auto unlocking and taking you

00:45:08   where you want to be it instead shows you the ad and you have to swipe which

00:45:12   is terrible. So I wanted to mention my... It's the worst thing in life. It's the worst

00:45:18   thing ever. My Kindle case has worked with all of my preceding Kindle models because

00:45:25   I don't have a case. I have a slipcover. Like a fancy armchair. It's like a Kindle sock.

00:45:34   And it works great. It's a neoprene case that I bought for my Kindle 2 and I still use it

00:45:38   because kindles are all roughly the same shape and size and it's worked so far

00:45:42   but I'm getting this new one and it comes with a case so I guess I'm using

00:45:46   that now you don't have to yeah just throw it away stupid battery case get

00:45:50   out of my life I want to mention one other thing which is a weird a weird

00:45:56   thing that I did is I bought the the this this crazy thing the pop slate - oh

00:46:03   Oh, for your iPhone.

00:46:05   Which I wanted to try, yeah, which is it's an e-ink screen

00:46:08   in an iPhone case.

00:46:10   And so you put it on the back.

00:46:11   And it's also like a battery case, too.

00:46:13   But the idea is that your iPhone pairs with it

00:46:18   and sends it data.

00:46:20   And you have e-ink, like always on e-ink display

00:46:25   on the back side of your iPhone.

00:46:27   And it seems totally impractical.

00:46:29   And it has no e-book solution, which basically means,

00:46:32   like I think that I will need to you know convert e-book files and load them

00:46:38   on there for it to possibly work but I still think it's a cool it's a it's a

00:46:43   cool fun idea until we get to the point where phones you know can can be on all

00:46:49   the time their screens and I know there's some some phones on in Android

00:46:52   phones that will show you they'll show you like the clock all the time but

00:46:57   aren't there some Android phones that have the ink second screen - I feel like

00:47:01   There's one. I think there's one currently that has a second screen on the back that

00:47:06   is just E Ink. And I always thought that was very clever, so I decided that I would, for

00:47:10   $89, I would try this ridiculous E Ink display thing for my iPhone. So I'll report back

00:47:18   to upgrade about that at some point. But we should probably move on. Any final thoughts

00:47:23   about Kindles before we go to the next topic?

00:47:26   I love them so much.

00:47:29   I know. I'll put Scott's picture of his collection of Kindles in the show notes from his upgrade

00:47:35   prep. And you can see the first generation Kindle, it's right there. Just look for the

00:47:38   weird wedge-shaped button and you will know.

00:47:42   Yes. There were many problems with the first generation Kindle. I don't want to overstate

00:47:46   how good it was, but there were some good ideas there.

00:47:50   Yeah. I mean, seriously, that's one of the very few products that I've ever bought and

00:47:54   used for the whatever the 20-day the 30-day return policy in about 20 days and I'm like

00:47:58   nope it's not it's got to go back I was so wanted to keep it and I just couldn't anyway

00:48:03   so this episode of upgrade also brought to you by the good people at ITProTV if you've

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00:50:25   for sponsoring Upgrade. That's ITPro.TV/upgrade. Alright our next topic

00:50:32   and and the reason that I invited Dan on the show today.

00:50:37   See, I, yeah, I know we have to move on to Dan now.

00:50:40   Nemesis we're moving to the left.

00:50:42   We're moving to the left shoe now.

00:50:43   Right.

00:50:44   Left shoe.

00:50:44   Wow.

00:50:45   Wow.

00:50:46   Yes.

00:50:46   Looks like the shoes on the other hosts.

00:50:49   Um, I don't understand what you're talking about.

00:50:52   So Dan is famously a fan of the Amazon echo.

00:50:55   I once added marshmallows to a shopping list while he was

00:50:57   listening to an episode of upgrade.

00:50:59   At least once.

00:51:00   At least I've done, I've turned off his light at one point with

00:51:04   just remotely by our podcast.

00:51:06   This is like its own show, Jason.

00:51:08   Yeah, I know.

00:51:10   And I just bought an Amazon Echo.

00:51:12   And I just thought, since we're talking about Amazon Kindles

00:51:15   and things like that, we should also probably talk

00:51:17   about another-- you know, we give

00:51:18   Amazon a lot of grief for the Fire Phone, which

00:51:21   was a complete flop.

00:51:23   Scott wrote a book about the Fire Phone too, by the way.

00:51:25   I do.

00:51:25   I have one of them on my desk right now.

00:51:26   Look at that.

00:51:28   How do you feel about the Fire Phone?

00:51:30   I think that it was not as bad as people said it was,

00:51:34   although it is a perplexing product.

00:51:36   Yeah, fair enough. I mean, just because people didn't buy it doesn't mean innately that it

00:51:40   was bad. It was, I think there are lots of reasons people didn't buy it, but...

00:51:44   There are lots of reasons it's bad.

00:51:46   Yeah, but they're not necessarily all the same. It has some interesting ideas. But we

00:51:52   give them a hard time for products like that, but you know, we've just been talking about

00:51:55   Kindles and then the Amazon Echo was greeted initially with raised eyebrows, I think, by

00:52:01   but has really gained a lot of momentum in people are talking about it and a lot

00:52:05   of tech people who poo-pooed it originally have heard their friends who've had it,

00:52:11   have loved it, and they've come around and that's really what happened with me,

00:52:14   where Dan kept praising it and I finally just kind of gave in and I got one.

00:52:19   I just do what Dan says, that's basically it.

00:52:24   I should point out, I also have an Amazon Echo. I was going to ask, you've got two

00:52:30   I do. I think Dan also has two. I also have two. I'm behind the curve.

00:52:36   There you are. As soon as it came out, I ordered it, and then it came, and my wife was like,

00:52:40   "What have you done? Why do we need this?" Yeah, well, I mean, that's the question we all asked, right?

00:52:45   What have we done? Why do we need this? Do we need this? Where am I? Why am I in this handbasket?

00:52:50   So why is the echo so appealing when it seemed like it was potentially pointless early on?

00:52:59   Well, I think that part of it is that it did seem pointless early on because it seemed

00:53:03   like, okay, this is a thing that we can already do with our phones and our iPads.

00:53:06   We've got Siri on all those, voice activated assistance on the newer iPhones.

00:53:10   You can even summon it without having to use the buttons.

00:53:12   And I think, why would you need a thing that's stationary and lives in one room?

00:53:16   And the answer is in part, A, because Amazon's implementation was very good, especially on

00:53:21   the hardware side, where even though, and I live in a small apartment, but as Jason

00:53:26   just sort of intimated by the fact that he mentioned he can add stuff to my shopping

00:53:30   list when I was listening to this podcast with my speakers on. The Echo is very good

00:53:34   at hearing things even multiple rooms away and that's because of its microphone setup.

00:53:38   Amazon's done a really good job making a device that lives up to its sort of usefulness, right?

00:53:43   We could all have imagined there was a device of this sort that just didn't work very well

00:53:48   but their execution was excellent. And I think comparative especially to if you spent some

00:53:54   time using Siri, especially on the Apple watch, it sometimes feels like the implementation

00:53:59   there is less than excellent.

00:54:01   And I think it is.

00:54:04   So yeah, I think part of it was that Amazon did the did a really good job with this product

00:54:10   and that it ended up being more useful and more to the point they've ended up continually

00:54:14   building in more and more new functionality along the way.

00:54:19   So I think that they-- it's weird because it doesn't fit into any convenient category,

00:54:24   right?

00:54:25   Like, we all saw this device and we were like, what is this?

00:54:27   It's like a standalone Siri and a Bluetooth speaker?

00:54:30   That sounds insane.

00:54:32   And it turns out that this is a product category that we didn't know that we wanted or needed.

00:54:39   And I think more of the sort of big factor here is that it feels very much like a computer

00:54:45   that is sort of in the air around you at all times.

00:54:49   And there are times where that's exceptionally useful to have.

00:54:52   You know, we, I, Scott over there, a big Star Trek fan, we are all used to the computer

00:54:58   activated voice interface star, you know, computer from Star Trek.

00:55:02   And something about that sort of translates, I think, to the Echo, which is kind of neat,

00:55:05   which is the idea that I, if my hands are full or I'm not near my phone or whatever,

00:55:10   I can ask for some information and I can have it delivered to me and usually pretty accurately.

00:55:15   And so that combined with some of the functionality Amazon's built in, the fact that they let

00:55:20   you hook into outside third-party services, has made it surprisingly compelling.

00:55:27   And I really, I found mine really useful.

00:55:30   That's why I went out and bought a second one to play around with.

00:55:32   My girlfriend, you know, when she was here actually got really used to having it and

00:55:36   playing the radio stations on that when we were cooking.

00:55:39   And so she bought one for her own apartment.

00:55:41   So there's something very compelling about it.

00:55:44   And as Jason said, many of the people that we know in different tech circles have sort

00:55:47   of bought into it.

00:55:48   And I think I've heard from very few of them who haven't really enjoyed it in some

00:55:53   way.

00:55:54   It doesn't seem like a lot of people have been like, "Oh, I bought this thing and

00:55:55   it was totally useless."

00:55:56   A lot of them are like, "Yeah, kind of coming around on this being a really useful product."

00:56:00   So I think voice is a very natural way to interact with technology, and we're only

00:56:05   going to see more of that.

00:56:06   Yeah.

00:56:07   Scott, what about you?

00:56:10   Have you been happy with your Echo?

00:56:13   I have been very happy with my Echo, happier than I thought I would be.

00:56:17   I bought it mostly because I buy gadgets.

00:56:20   Yeah.

00:56:21   And it was there, and I was like, "It's kind of a cool idea.

00:56:24   I don't know why I would need it, but I'll buy it."

00:56:26   And so I did it on Amazon.

00:56:27   You know, they sent you these things, and they're like, "Ooh, you're a special person

00:56:30   here.

00:56:31   You get early access to pre-ordering the Echo."

00:56:33   And I'm like, "I don't even know what an Echo is, but I'll order it."

00:56:36   So I ordered it, and it showed up.

00:56:38   And for a while, it wasn't really doing much for me.

00:56:41   was just kind of sitting there. But then I got, to Dan's point, about one of the things that I

00:56:47   think is great about it is that it just, you know, suddenly it knows how to do more stuff,

00:56:51   which is kind of frightening when you think about it, but very cool in practice. And so,

00:56:56   before that, the other purchase that I had made was I decided that we needed Wi-Fi light bulbs

00:57:01   in my house without asking my wife. So, I got a whole bunch of Wi-Fi light bulbs, and my wife was

00:57:07   like, and I said, "Okay, Marisa, when you want to turn on the light, you can't use the

00:57:12   switch anymore. You have to get your phone out and use this app and be on Wi-Fi, and

00:57:19   it's super cool." And she looked at me like I was crazy, and she almost made me return

00:57:23   them.

00:57:24   Because they're also slightly dimmer than our other lights, which she didn't like. But

00:57:27   anyway, but long story short, the Echo learned how to turn on our lights, and this has been

00:57:34   a wonderful thing in our life. Now, Marisa will talk to me again because she really likes

00:57:40   that we can say, "Alexa, turn on the living room," and the lights come on. And it's pretty cool.

00:57:47   Also, one of the things that I like to do with Alexa is, and if people who have one,

00:57:52   I'm going to ask about how the weather is in your area. So, "Alexa, what's the temperature today?"

00:57:56   And then Alexa tells you what the temperature is and what the little forecast is. It's very helpful.

00:58:01   You can also ask her how old celebrities are.

00:58:03   That's just one of my favorite things to do.

00:58:06   Yeah, I actually really enjoy that it hooks in with TuneIn, which is a service that essentially streams radio stations.

00:58:12   So I frequently will be washing the dishes or cooking something and I can just tell it to start playing our local NPR station.

00:58:19   And it will just do that without any questions.

00:58:21   Whereas it's a little trickier in Siri and it doesn't work as well.

00:58:26   I also like, and I've mentioned this before in several places, the Echo has one of the

00:58:30   best Bluetooth implementations because once you've sort of paired your device and set

00:58:34   it up, you can just say, "Connect my phone," and it will connect your phone.

00:58:39   And for anybody who's turned devices on and off and worried about pairing Bluetooth devices,

00:58:42   it's so much easier to just be able to say, "Do this," and it's done, at which point you

00:58:48   can start playing your podcast or whatever.

00:58:50   I also like the hook-in with Prime Music, which may not have quite the breadth of catalog

00:58:55   that say Apple Music does, but for something that I got basically for free for already being a Prime subscriber, it's pretty darn good.

00:59:00   Yeah, and we have pretty good luck with saying, you know, play this song or play this artist and sure enough there

00:59:06   it goes, goes off playing some, you know, Johnny Cash or what have you.

00:59:09   And so I think all of that is, it's super cool to not have to like navigate through multiple layers of like an interface

00:59:16   to be like, alright, I'm gonna open Apple Music, I'm gonna search for Johnny Cash, I'll find the album I want,

00:59:20   I guess I'll shuffle everything.

00:59:21   Like, you know, as easy as that all is,

00:59:24   it's funny that we're making fun of a snort phone interface

00:59:26   for being super complex, because the answer is, well,

00:59:29   that's super advanced technology that actually makes things

00:59:31   much easier than they used to be.

00:59:32   But what's easier still is just telling your voice-activated

00:59:36   robot to do this thing.

00:59:38   And--

00:59:39   I have a bunch of Sonos speakers in my house, which I love.

00:59:43   I love Sonos.

00:59:43   It's fantastic.

00:59:44   It works very well.

00:59:45   Easy to set up, easy to use.

00:59:47   it is not as easy as saying to your Echo, "Play NPR."

00:59:50   - Yeah.

00:59:51   - And so when I came in to my house

00:59:53   and Marisa was listening to NPR, she was in the kitchen.

00:59:56   Our Echo is in the living room

00:59:59   and we have a Sonos in the kitchen,

01:00:01   but she was listening to NPR on the Echo

01:00:03   because it's just so much easier to say, "Play NPR,"

01:00:06   than open the Sonos app and then click, you know.

01:00:08   - I actually wish that-- - Even Sonos

01:00:10   sounds much better.

01:00:10   - I wrote a piece about this.

01:00:12   I want Sonos, and they had a perplexing press release

01:00:15   where they sort of said that they realized that voice and streaming are where things

01:00:19   are going, that I want Sonos to make a deal with Amazon so that if I've got Sonos speakers

01:00:26   in my house, that I can tell them what to play from the Echo, like just have the Echo

01:00:31   and Sonos kind of all work together.

01:00:33   The Sonos speakers are vastly superior to the Echo speakers.

01:00:36   Even the Play One, the little one that's roughly the same size as the Echo, is so much

01:00:41   better as a speaker.

01:00:43   you know, you've got the one Echo. It would make sense for them to do some integration there,

01:00:48   and Sonos has sort of Apple Music support. There are ways that this could really work well together.

01:00:53   And right now, you know, you can attach an Echo, the little Echo, the Echo Dot to a Sonos

01:01:01   speaker that like the Play 5 that's got the audio in. But in the end, you know, you now have a

01:01:06   better speaker, but you're not using any of the Sonos features anymore. You've just turned your

01:01:10   expensive Sonos speaker into a dumb speaker, which is kind of not the point.

01:01:15   DUMB SPEAKERS! Stupid speakers!

01:01:18   So it's like, I think this is the problem with a lot of this home tech, because I also

01:01:22   love those features and just having that echo in the air of your house, that from anywhere

01:01:30   you can just say a thing and it knows what you're doing. And it has to be good at telling

01:01:34   you in words because, unlike Siri, which often punts to the screen, it's like, "I looked

01:01:39   this up for you." I'm like, "I don't want to see that right now." Alexa can't do that.

01:01:44   Alexa has to tell you an answer. And sometimes it fails because this is still really early

01:01:49   days of this stuff. But the frustration with a lot of this stuff is the lack of connectivity.

01:01:54   Now I've noticed Amazon is making a real effort to add more stuff to Echo all the time. And

01:02:03   there's this whole trigger system where you basically, people, third parties can write

01:02:07   their own things and they're not deeply integrated you have to say "hey lady in

01:02:11   the box trigger this thing" but that means that Amazon doesn't have to do

01:02:16   all the heavy lifting that's their third-party app platform basically and

01:02:20   on Dan's advice I got a Logitech Harmony hub which talks via one of these

01:02:30   triggers through if this then that to the Echo so now I can like turn on my

01:02:34   TV on and off and control other devices using that which is pretty awesome

01:02:41   yeah but as to your point the problem then is like once you started using that

01:02:45   you got used to that it's super confusing to now think oh man you know

01:02:48   what's cool is that you know my fire TV or Siri on my Apple TV lets me search

01:02:52   for things by voice

01:02:54   why can't I do that with my echo or why can't I give those like set top boxes

01:02:58   more specific commands because it's kind of limited and I think that's the most

01:03:03   damning thing is like once you started using this and sort of dip your toe in the water

01:03:07   and you realize where the limitations are you're like oh there's so much more room to

01:03:10   do super cool stuff here I wish they would integrate as it's your point I wish they would

01:03:15   integrate better and the there's also the the problem that we're retrofitting this is

01:03:20   so early days that we're retrofitting our our homes and our lives to this stuff and

01:03:26   Scott's example is is the one that I use a lot too which is we too have a light switch

01:03:32   that must remain permanently on, unless one of the-- last night, one of our bulbs dropped

01:03:38   off the Wi-Fi network, I think because I rebooted my router.

01:03:42   What a weird world we live in.

01:03:43   And it could-- well, you haven't lived until you've updated your light bulb's firmware,

01:03:47   let me tell you. And so I used it for that. But other than that, it just stays on. And

01:03:52   of course, logically, if you've got smart bulbs, what you want is a light switch that's

01:03:56   a smart switch that is always feeding them energy but is just sending essentially a Wi-Fi

01:04:02   command to them when you flip it off to turn them off, but they're not really off in the

01:04:08   old school version of off. But that requires different wiring and replacing your switches,

01:04:13   and if you're renting you can't do that. But that's because it is dumb. You can be like,

01:04:19   "Yay! I put all new bulbs in everywhere and they're all smart." Now, never touch the light

01:04:23   switches, not even by accident, and if you want to turn a light off, we've got this

01:04:28   handy switch here, you can't touch it, you have to find your phone and unlock it and

01:04:32   launch this app and then press the button to turn the light switch off. Or tell the

01:04:36   lady who's listening all the time, perhaps. But it's just not quite there, but it's

01:04:42   close. I just had that same moment that I need to replace the rocker switch that I've

01:04:46   got that controls my outside lights. Ideally I would replace that with something that was

01:04:50   smart and acted like the current switch but wasn't actually cutting the power it was just

01:04:55   talking to it over over Wi-Fi and we're just not there yet.

01:04:58   So once again we can have the technological innovation of being able to turn a light on

01:05:02   or off from a switch in a wall not directly connected to it via the internet.

01:05:07   It's amazing.

01:05:08   Well the Hue, Philips Hue, those are the bulbs I got they have a little switch that you can

01:05:12   buy I don't know it's the light switch it's a button I think that you can.

01:05:15   Yeah because it is confusing when I have guests mostly it's confusing because they're like

01:05:18   like how I turn the lights on, and I'm like,

01:05:19   well, you have to talk to the cylinder, or you can--

01:05:23   - Talk to the cylinder. - You can use your phone.

01:05:26   And it's very confusing to people.

01:05:27   - Yeah, yeah, exactly.

01:05:30   I have not gone down, fully down that road yet.

01:05:32   I have a switch, I have a Wemo, Belkin Wemo Smart Switch,

01:05:37   which is connected to a standing lamp.

01:05:40   Therefore, it doesn't require a switch in the wall,

01:05:42   but that lamp basically is on all the time,

01:05:45   and then the switch turns it on

01:05:46   not enough specific times of day,

01:05:47   but I can also override that using either the Echo or a Wi-Fi

01:05:50   app.

01:05:51   I remember showing that to my girlfriend very early on.

01:05:53   And she was like, oh, I pulled out the phone,

01:05:55   like turned off the light using the phone.

01:05:57   And just to your point, exactly where you were, Scott,

01:05:59   basically like, uh-huh, that's great.

01:06:02   What if I just want to turn the light on

01:06:04   and I don't have your phone?

01:06:07   Don't do that.

01:06:08   Go into another room, maybe.

01:06:10   That's right.

01:06:10   Here's a flashlight.

01:06:13   One step forward, two steps back.

01:06:15   Well, that's why I was complaining about tech nerds poo-pooing the Kindle earlier, but I'll

01:06:21   say this is why tech nerds exist, is for us to try this stuff out and step in all of these

01:06:25   holes and point out that all of these things are bad.

01:06:29   And by the time regular people get to them, hopefully some of these holes will be filled

01:06:32   in.

01:06:33   But we get to be on the cutting edge where we can't touch any of our light switches.

01:06:39   Maybe this is a product idea, like a little tape that you can put over your light switches

01:06:42   saying, "Do not touch. Smart." These have been smartened. Don't touch them anymore.

01:06:49   Pete: That's right.

01:06:49   Jared. That was, they will be angry if you touch them.

01:06:52   Brian. Yeah.

01:06:52   Pete. I do love my Wi-Fi lightbulbs, I will say, though, because I like the fact that they will

01:06:57   just turn on around sunset. You don't have to do anything, it just happens. It's fantastic.

01:07:01   Brian. So, my outdoor lights are like that, where they are, they come on in the morning and in the

01:07:06   evening and they come on around sunset in the evening and then stay on until like 1130.

01:07:12   or 11 and in the morning it's the same thing they come on at like 6 and then go off at sunrise and

01:07:18   That as the as the seasons change it just takes care of itself. It's pretty great

01:07:23   Yeah, I have the same thing with my we most which and I'm thinking about expanding that because it's a little more

01:07:29   Versatile than the light bulb situation for me

01:07:32   Just in terms of like if I burn out a light bulb I can still you know replace that light bulb. Yes. Yeah

01:07:41   Alright, well I'm gonna move on to Ask Upgrade, I think. This has been a good conversation.

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01:09:42   All right, you guys ready to do some Ask Upgrade?

01:09:46   - Yeah. - I am ready.

01:09:47   - All right. Some of these questions might be for you, you see.

01:09:49   Lister David wants to know, "Why does everybody want to kill the MacBook Air now?"

01:09:55   We were talking about this last week.

01:09:56   It's cheaper and faster than MacBooks.

01:09:59   It's more ports than MacBooks and it's cheaper and lighter than the MacBook Pro.

01:10:02   I think the answer is nobody wants to kill the MacBook Air except Apple.

01:10:07   David, the MacBook Air knows what it did.

01:10:11   Ever since it went on that murderous rampage, I feel like it should die.

01:10:15   The Gs are numbered.

01:10:17   You're for the laptop death penalty is what you people are saying. You are monsters, but so is the MacBook Air apparently.

01:10:22   No, seriously, I love the MacBook Air.

01:10:24   I think a lot of people would really like the MacBook Air to be updated with new processors and a retina display,

01:10:28   a display but it's very clear that the MacBook is the MacBook Air successor. Apple has made

01:10:34   it that way. So we're not trying to kill it. I think we're trying to acknowledge the fact

01:10:38   that it's over because Apple would have probably called it the MacBook Air if they wanted to

01:10:43   keep that name around. It seems like the Air name is being phased out. I think the iPad

01:10:48   Airs will be renamed at some point to probably just iPad since there's iPad Pro and the MacBook

01:10:55   Air likewise the the MacBook is the MacBook Air successor so I will I plan on running my 11-inch

01:11:03   MacBook Air like into the ground basically until the MacBook One is you know sufficiently improved

01:11:10   has to replace it it's gonna be a few years before it's even as fast as my MacBook Air right so

01:11:15   you know maybe the MacBook Pros will be as thin and light as a MacBook Air by then and that will

01:11:19   be the difference I don't know and that's that's the the air signifies right that it's lighter and

01:11:24   thinner and I feel like that's just what they're going for across their product line anyway,

01:11:27   so why have a special model that is all about that when they just want it for all of their

01:11:32   laptops and iPads to be light and thin.

01:11:35   Yeah, they're over it now and the MacBook is going to do that from now on anyway.

01:11:41   That's your fewer ports, cheaper, faster, lighter thing in the long run as the MacBook

01:11:48   Air is allowed to sort of age away.

01:11:49   I doubt it will ever be updated.

01:11:51   I think it's just going to fade away.

01:11:52   It would be nice if they gave it another update.

01:11:54   But probably just price drops.

01:11:56   It exists.

01:11:57   Price drops.

01:11:58   It exists to be a sub thousand Apple laptop right now.

01:12:01   That's that's the reason that it's still around.

01:12:03   Something else will fill that slot eventually.

01:12:06   So that was listener David.

01:12:07   This is a different listener David, but I assure you the name is David, but it's not

01:12:11   the same one.

01:12:12   I just bought a new Mac Mini for my 16 year old and was very surprised.

01:12:14   It's a November 2014 build.

01:12:17   When will Apple update them next?

01:12:19   Wow.

01:12:20   The Mac Mini.

01:12:21   Mac Mini knows what it did again. Yeah, there's one on that murderous man

01:12:25   It's really there are some see there's some kinks to work out

01:12:29   It's the the Apple goes usually pretty long without updating the Mac mini

01:12:35   I feel like that is a every once in a while when they think of it. They're like oh, yeah

01:12:38   Yeah, we added this thing the Mac mini. Here's a press release about it. We don't talk about it otherwise. Bye. Bye, so this is

01:12:44   2014 - it's only or the early 2016 yeah, it's not surprised me at all

01:12:49   priorities. It's a low priority. This, you know, there'll be at some point a chip generation

01:12:54   change that Apple will be like, "Yeah, okay, that'll fit in there," and they'll do an update.

01:12:59   The disappointing thing of the 2014 models is that the chips that they used didn't support

01:13:04   the like four core model, so it's all just like two core models. There used to be a Mac

01:13:11   Mini that was sold that was actually faster than the fastest of the next generation Mac

01:13:15   Mini because it had more cores and I don't know whether that will change or what. It's

01:13:22   a low priority for Apple so I'm sure they'll update them. My guess would be, you know,

01:13:26   I'd say end of this year because I feel like a two-year cycle is fair but it could

01:13:30   not be depending on what else they got going on.

01:13:33   I either think it probably WWDC or this fall. Yeah. One of those. Yeah. Lister Chris asks,

01:13:40   Do you guys think Apple Watch 2 will offer a configuration to buy just the watch and

01:13:45   skip the band at a lower price?

01:13:47   This is the opposite of what Amazon did with the Kindle.

01:13:50   I don't think it's happening.

01:13:51   No, I don't think so.

01:13:52   No, no.

01:13:53   First off, a bandless watch is not a good look, and you're basically saying, "We're

01:14:00   going to go buy some band from someone else that isn't Apple."

01:14:03   No, Apple's going to make you have a band.

01:14:05   essentially with the new nylon straps you have

01:14:09   you have an option of a nylon band or a sport band at the lowest price of the

01:14:13   Apple Watch Sport which I think is a good

01:14:14   Myke noticed that and mentioned it to me and I was struck by that it's like yeah

01:14:18   basically now you've got a different option for the default

01:14:22   but you need to pick a band and that's gonna be baked into the price

01:14:25   pick a side people yep it's just gonna happen that way

01:14:29   listener John wrote in to say and this is a great one Barnes and Noble

01:14:34   lost the ebook war I want to switch to the Amazon ecosystem while I can do the

01:14:39   better e-readers and more books I listen to the six colors podcast and I do a

01:14:42   secret podcast for six color subscribers and I'd like to buy a

01:14:46   secret podcast which you do not know yes and I'd like to buy a Kindle paperwhite

01:14:51   are there are there any easy ways to transfer books from the nook to the

01:14:57   Kindle. Easy yes, legal question mark. I think you must find a Barnes & Noble representative

01:15:08   and sacrifice them by wearing a full moon. Boy, you guys are killing everybody in the

01:15:13   Ask upgrade. This is dangerous.

01:15:15   Well, Barnes & Noble's nose would have been.

01:15:18   That's true. I think ethically yes, legally questionable, but I'll put a link in the

01:15:23   show notes. Although if you Google search "remove DRM from Nook" you will probably find

01:15:32   this link. It's a link to the digital reader that links to a couple of things. Basically

01:15:36   the, I wrote about this on Six Colors too, there's a tool called Calibre that is an ebook

01:15:40   conversion utility and one of the things that they offer is a plugin architecture and then

01:15:45   somebody has written a plugin that will remove various kinds of ebook DRM from books. It

01:15:50   doesn't work with Apple's iBooks because that uses the Fairplay DRM, you need a

01:15:54   different DRM stripper to do that, but for Kindle and Nook, I believe it will

01:16:00   work. So what you do is, the digital reader article that we'll link in the

01:16:03   show notes says you basically have to download the Nook app on your computer

01:16:07   and you download your books and then you open them in Caliber and you

01:16:11   you've installed this DDRM plugin and you can basically convert them and take

01:16:16   the DRM off of them and then if you want you can convert them to a format that

01:16:19   the kindle will play and then you can put them on your kindle. You can copy them onto

01:16:24   your kindle and that will work.

01:16:26   I realize it's sort of a gray area but I also feel like at this point if that platform

01:16:30   is abandoned you should not feel bad about this.

01:16:32   I agree.

01:16:33   Otherwise that's just like that's just extortion.

01:16:37   I don't think you should feel bad about it even if it were if you just wanted to switch

01:16:40   from the nook to the kindle you shouldn't feel bad about it either. Although I mean

01:16:44   you should not buy a nook if you're listening now because Barnes and Noble doesn't care

01:16:49   about it all that much.

01:16:51   And you can also, I mean, one of the other things I really like about the Kindle is Amazon

01:16:55   makes it easy to put stuff onto it, and they have a variety of what you can email to a

01:17:00   special address, you can download a little app, you can upload a Kindle printer onto

01:17:08   your computer so you can print to your Kindle.

01:17:11   You can plug it in in drag and drop too, right?

01:17:13   Yeah, you can do that as well if you're a caveman.

01:17:18   And I am.

01:17:19   And Dan is, yes.

01:17:21   Yes.

01:17:22   "Lady in the cylinder, turn off the lights in the cave."

01:17:24   Exactly.

01:17:25   I'm on headphones.

01:17:27   Listener Lucas wrote in to say, "Is there any way to make a screenshot on the new Apple

01:17:31   TV that does not require Xcode?"

01:17:33   And I answered him.

01:17:34   Yes.

01:17:35   And I disappointed him.

01:17:36   Sort of.

01:17:37   Yeah, you can take a picture of your TV set.

01:17:38   Great.

01:17:39   You can use...

01:17:40   Or use a capture box, which is what I have.

01:17:41   Yeah, so you can use something like, I think mine is an Elgato capture box.

01:17:46   You can even do better than that.

01:17:47   My understanding is if you have a USB-C to USB cable and you attach it to your Mac, to

01:17:54   a Mac, you can do the QuickTime screen capture.

01:17:57   Oh, like on a, like doing that with your phone.

01:18:00   As with a phone or an iPad.

01:18:02   And then, so you could do that and then, and then just take a frame and you would have

01:18:06   a screenshot if you want to take a—

01:18:07   But there's no way to like reverse AirPlay, which is I kind of think what he's looking

01:18:10   for.

01:18:11   Yeah, and I don't think, I don't think you can.

01:18:12   So, so basically you're going to need that special cable or just a dark room and a very

01:18:17   study hand and take a picture of your TV set which is not the best but we used to

01:18:20   have to do that in Macworld for a while.

01:18:22   Yeah. Lister Benjamin wrote in saying sweatshirts and t-shirts are nice but

01:18:26   what you really need is baseball caps next time for upgrade. I will

01:18:31   take that under advisement. Myke may not know what a baseball cap is because they

01:18:35   don't have baseball in England. It's like a cricket cap.

01:18:37   Yeah, a cricket cap. That's exactly it. It's a crumpet cap. But we'll have a...

01:18:41   yeah, is it a muffin, English muffin cap or a crumpet cap? I saw crumpets in the

01:18:45   in the supermarket the other day. Crumpets are excellent. I thought I would recommend.

01:18:50   Yeah, go go to Crumpets. We'll put a bit of crumpet. Anyway, we'll have an orange brain

01:18:56   baseball hat at some point maybe that would be fun. And finally listener Paul wrote in and said,

01:19:03   "If given the opportunity, which episode of Star Trek would Scott forcibly subject Dan to?" Wait a

01:19:09   second, I want to I want to object to the premise of this question that you need to forcibly subject

01:19:13   me to a Star Trek episode as though I have not seen most Star Trek episodes.

01:19:18   Everybody knows that you're a Star Wars fan and that you can't like two things with stars

01:19:24   in the title.

01:19:26   It's clear.

01:19:27   Actually I have forced Dan to watch an episode of Star Trek for my podcast, Random Trek.

01:19:33   Dan was my second guest, Jason was my first guest.

01:19:35   This is like a Random Trek reunion.

01:19:37   We all watched the same Random Episode Trek for today, right?

01:19:42   We did.

01:19:43   No. And it was the episode I forced Ed to watch was By Any Other Name, an original series

01:19:49   episode that includes some people being turned into dice, which was exciting.

01:19:54   Well, they're like styrofoam dice. Large styrofoam dice.

01:19:58   Yeah, they get crushed. But I don't...

01:20:01   Scotty gets an alien drunk in that one. That's my favorite part of that episode.

01:20:04   That's true.

01:20:05   He does. But I reject the premise of the question as well. I don't think that anyone should

01:20:10   be forced to watch Star Trek. If you like Star Trek, watch it. If you don't, don't.

01:20:14   I happen to know Dan likes Star Trek, so if I had to, if there was some weird situation

01:20:18   in which I had to force Dan to watch an episode of Star Trek or else bad things would happen,

01:20:23   I would force him to watch In the Pale Moonlight, a Deep Space Nine episode that I know he likes.

01:20:28   And great choice. Well, thanks to both of you for being on upgrade and filling in Myke's

01:20:33   shoes, one shoe each, which means you've got also a barefoot there, a sock or something.

01:20:38   Shoe only. Yeah, something like that. It was great having you both on. Scott, it's great

01:20:43   to have you back on Upgrade. And Dan, I believe this was your first time on this side of the

01:20:47   microphone, right? For Upgrade. So nice to be here. Is there another side to the microphone?

01:20:52   Yeah, the side where I put marshmallows in your to-do list. This is a better side than

01:20:59   that. To-do marshmallows. Yeah, that's right. What do you do with those marshmallows, Dan?

01:21:04   Dan can decide what he does for them.

01:21:07   Thank you to our sponsors, Smile, MailRoute, and ITProTV.

01:21:12   And thanks to Myke, wherever he is.

01:21:13   He'll be back next week from his assignment in Atlanta, clicking pens.

01:21:18   And here's where you can find us.

01:21:20   Of course, show notes are in your podcast, F of Choice, or you can go to relay.fm/upgrade/85.

01:21:27   And you can find Scott on Twitter @blankbaby, and he is the host of the Random Trek podcast

01:21:32   on the Incomparable.

01:21:33   can find Dan at D Morin he is the host and co-host of so many podcasts

01:21:38   including clockwise on this very network and of course the rebound which he hosts

01:21:43   with with John moltz and Lex Friedman that's a tech podcast you should check

01:21:47   out thanks you both thanks to you Jason and thanks everybody out there for

01:21:51   listening we'll be back next week see you then

01:21:55   [Music]