83: I Love Infuriating You


00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:08   From relay FM, this is Upgrade episode number 83. Today's show is brought to you by Squarespace,

00:00:15   MailRoute and Freshbooks. My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by Mr Jason Snell.

00:00:21   Welcome back Myke. Thank you. Good to have you back.

00:00:24   Yeah, I've got a crazy traveling schedule so far this year. You are doing a very good job of

00:00:31   getting some fantastic guest hosts to fill in. I very much enjoyed last week's episode,

00:00:37   except for the point where Ren was wrong about the iPhone 6 Plus size,

00:00:42   but we don't need to get into that too much today. I do say I enjoy listening to the show.

00:00:48   I love infuriating you when you're not here. It's the best.

00:00:53   Yeah, I know. I feel like when you said, I have to say, I wasn't gonna bring this up,

00:00:58   but I'm gonna bring it up now. There was a point in the show where you said about my name being

00:01:02   spelt incorrectly. Yes. Right. What I really liked about that moment is there was an ever

00:01:06   so slight editing error when you did that and that made me smile because it was bad karma for you.

00:01:11   Oh, I don't even know what that was. You faded in on yourself, which was very interesting.

00:01:18   Interesting. Yeah. So there's a little easter egg for people to go back and find.

00:01:22   and it put a big smile on my face. I have no idea what happened there. You mock me, sir.

00:01:27   Yeah. This is what you get. But I did really enjoy last week. All the pencil stuff was fantastic.

00:01:33   I'm hearing you talk about that. One of my favorite things was when you were kind of making

00:01:40   fun of her, like, "Oh, you didn't get to touch the device, huh? Didn't get to touch it?" That was,

00:01:45   that really made me smile. Well, yeah, because I mean, I assume, because Renee had one and she

00:01:48   she was in Cupertino. So I assumed that they felt like Apple was giving it to Renee to

00:01:53   review and that it would be bad form if she wrote about using the one that Renee had.

00:01:59   And so I imagine that she actually had hands-on experience with it and felt like she could

00:02:05   not discuss that. And that's fine. I mean, that may have those may have been the ground

00:02:09   rules that they got for getting one early was really this is just for you. Don't you

00:02:13   know this is not for your your team or your staff it's for you to review so you

00:02:19   know that was that was painful but she's got one now so it's all good so I wanted

00:02:27   to just mention something that I've been thinking about in regards to the two

00:02:31   different pros than 12.9 and a 9.7 because I've been listening to a few

00:02:36   things I listened to obviously last week's episode I listened to you and

00:02:39   John Gruber's very long but great episode of the talk show. So long. So very long. So I listened to all of that too.

00:02:46   And one of the things that I found quite interesting, people are talking a lot

00:02:49   about the differences between the 9 7 and the 12 9 and quite a lot of the

00:02:53   conversation is how like the 9 7 has extra additional good features over the

00:02:58   12 9 but one that I was thinking about is whilst the screen has a bunch of

00:03:02   great new technology in it that makes it great for color and stuff like that, one

00:03:06   One of the things that it lacks over the 12.9 is the resolution.

00:03:11   So obviously it's a lower resolution screen, which means that multitasking and software,

00:03:16   stuff like that, is actually worse on the 9.7.

00:03:20   Because on the 12.9 you get two iPad apps basically in portrait side by side, and you

00:03:24   don't get that on the Baby Pro.

00:03:27   And that's the, yeah, I mean, it's just there are more pixels. There are, whatever, a couple

00:03:33   million more pixels on the 12.9. And yeah, I mean, I think that kind of goes with the,

00:03:39   obviously it did go without saying because we didn't say it, but the idea there that

00:03:44   when you're using it, like with a computer screen, right, you can fit more stuff on the

00:03:49   screen. And then if you're not using the keyboard, it's even worse because then that keyboard

00:03:53   slides up and takes over a large percentage of the screen, which in split screen mode

00:03:57   is dumb.

00:03:58   Yeah, because the keyboard is higher, isn't it, than it would be on the 12.9, because

00:04:04   the 12.9 keyboard is wider, so you actually lose out quite a bit there, and I just thought

00:04:10   that that's an interesting distinction to make between the two of them.

00:04:15   It's the number one reason you would use the 12.9 over the 9.7 is the screen is bigger.

00:04:21   I mean, yeah, perhaps we didn't emphasize that enough, but it's a lot bigger screen.

00:04:27   That's like why you would go there.

00:04:28   Well, I think it's just nuance.

00:04:30   Everybody knows the screen is bigger, but the software doesn't scale screen-wise, right?

00:04:36   It's just different on 12.9.

00:04:38   Unlike the Mini and the Air, which are the same number of pixels just packed into a smaller

00:04:44   space on the Mini, the Pro has more pixels, unless it's an app that hasn't been updated

00:04:50   for the Pro, in which case it scales it up. But most apps, many apps, all the good apps

00:04:55   for the iPad Pro 12.9 are using that extra space and then when you use split screen or

00:05:01   all of that then you have apps that don't feel like they're hobbled by being in a

00:05:08   split screen because there's so much space on the screen.

00:05:12   >> Yeah, so I just thought that that was an interesting thing to think about. This is

00:05:15   just something I've been mulling over as I've been thinking about what that iPad

00:05:20   is for me. And I don't think it's necessarily something that people are like, "Oh, that

00:05:24   you're silly for not mentioning." I think it might just be one of those things that

00:05:28   comes with time to reflect and/or time to actually use one, right? Which I haven't.

00:05:35   I haven't actually seen one of these yet. I know they're out in stores, but I've been

00:05:40   kind of tied up this weekend, WrestleMania. So I haven't actually had the time to go and

00:05:45   look at these things, but I'm actually thinking about going to do that sometime this week.

00:05:50   Just to go in and take a look, I've been looking at a lot of pictures and stuff on the website.

00:05:54   I think one of my favorite little design flourishes on the 9.7 is the way that they integrate

00:06:00   the antennas on the Wi-Fi model. It looks way better than any iPad previously. You know,

00:06:06   it had like the little white line.

00:06:07   On the cellular model.

00:06:08   That's what I meant. Sorry, yes, on the cellular model.

00:06:10   Yeah, it's color-matched, it's got the little scoop for the cutout, but then it's color-matched

00:06:18   so it's just this line instead of being a whole black strip the whole way across the

00:06:24   top.

00:06:25   Yeah.

00:06:26   Yeah.

00:06:27   So, there you go, iPad stuff.

00:06:30   I've seen a couple of links flying around over the last few days about further strengthening

00:06:37   the idea that OS X will be renamed to Mac OS. Have you seen these?

00:06:42   I have.

00:06:43   So this came from AppleInsider, and there is some remnants in 10.11.4 which hints to

00:06:50   Mac OS naming.

00:06:53   Yeah, I don't know.

00:06:55   Do you think this could just be an error or something?

00:06:58   Yeah, I do. I think it could be evidence. It could be an error.

00:07:06   We also heard at some point, was it the event before last? Somebody on stage said Mac OS

00:07:12   at one point and everybody went, "Ahh!" And you know, it might be. I mean, I think

00:07:16   it's logical that they're heading there. The evidence is there. It's not just me

00:07:20   writing crazy articles on Macworld saying this is going to be, this is what they should

00:07:24   do. But it's like Phil Schiller said at the talk show live last year at WWDC, you

00:07:30   know, this is part of our strategy and there's more to come. And I do feel like that this

00:07:36   is the other shoe dropping. And you know, marketing is different, so it's not necessarily

00:07:43   evidence because they could continue to call it OS X internally, they could call it Mac

00:07:47   OS internally and still call it OS X externally. So it's not proof, but it is another little

00:07:56   addition to the pile of thought that's growing, that is that they're going to rebrand OS X

00:08:02   Mac OS which would free them to get off the number 10 at last at the same time that iOS

00:08:09   is probably going to number 10.

00:08:12   Yeah, I think that it's gonna happen. I'm just not… I don't know if it will happen

00:08:21   at WWDC. It feels like it could be a right time, right, because you get the 10 to go

00:08:26   over. They may not even call iOS iOS 10 if they do this, who knows, but…

00:08:30   Well, you know, we've talked about that idea of like what if they did an iOS release that

00:08:34   was not 10 but like 9.5 and said we're focusing on these important features and we're just

00:08:43   going to call it 9.5.

00:08:46   I do think that there's an argument to be made that they actually call this Mac OS 10.12

00:08:51   anyway only because next year they would be able to be completely in sync and then next

00:08:58   year they would have iOS 11 and Mac OS 11 and they would just move in lockstep from

00:09:02   that point. But I don't know. It's, you know, there's so many different paths they could

00:09:07   take, plenty of arguments in favor and against all of them. So it'll be interesting to see

00:09:13   what they actually do. But yeah, it's, you know, thumbs up to the people who look through

00:09:21   all the text strings in all the files of all the OS releases in order to try to find things,

00:09:28   Because sometimes things are revealed by looking at that stuff, so—because it's not always

00:09:34   stripped out.

00:09:35   This is actually, I think, one of the reasons—this goes to that same idea about why Apple is

00:09:39   open about so much of the beta stuff now is because they know it's going to be out there.

00:09:42   So you know, the one thing they can try to protect is stuff they haven't announced

00:09:47   yet, but that means that you need to not release things that are—that give it away, and sometimes

00:09:53   they release things that give it away.

00:09:55   - Yeah, more power to the people that go through that stuff.

00:09:59   - Yeah, yeah, that's a thankless task,

00:10:02   but every now and then you get somebody

00:10:05   who notices something.

00:10:06   - It's magical.

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00:13:20   So Mr Snell, on last week's episode with the lovely Serenity, you were talking about

00:13:28   the 9.7 inch keyboard and you basically just picked yours up from Apple at this point.

00:13:35   And I don't remember the exact words but I know the tone and your kind of feelings

00:13:39   at the time was "this keyboard is ridiculous."

00:13:42   I had not used the keyboard at that point other than in the demo room. It was still

00:13:46   the box because I drove back from Cupertino and then we did the show.

00:13:51   So to kind of reiterate on it, if I'm remembering correctly, your feelings were just everything

00:13:55   was too small, it was too cramped, the keys were too small, right? Like it was just a

00:14:00   nice try but wasn't going to work for you. That was kind of your feeling.

00:14:04   Well I mean it's a scale-down keyboard. Scale-down keyboards are bad. I've tried them before.

00:14:08   No, bad. Then what happened? You'll never believe

00:14:12   what happened next.

00:14:13   - Yeah, so I went, so one of the things I try to do with especially mobile products

00:14:20   is use them like in mobile situations. So for the iPad, and I did this with the iPad

00:14:27   Pro, one of the things I do, I mean, I can take it to my countertop in my house and things

00:14:32   like that, but I wanted to change a pace and I had to actually pick up my daughter after

00:14:39   school and take her to a doctor's appointment, and so I had about an hour and a half before

00:14:43   that. And I decided to drive over to buy the high school and go to the Starbucks over there

00:14:50   and be a mobile person, right? Working from a cafe with an iPad person.

00:14:56   Co-worker.

00:14:57   Yeah, so 9.7-inch iPad Pro with the smart keyboard cover. I got my hot chocolate, sat

00:15:07   down at a table and folded open the keyboard and started to type. What I was going to do

00:15:16   was type a section of my review about the smart keyboard and in the end I decided I

00:15:21   should just post this and I still haven't finished that review. I reviewed the iPhone

00:15:25   SE but the iPad, I still am halfway through that review, I have to do that early this

00:15:29   week. But I wrote about the keyboard as on the keyboard. And as I was writing, and I

00:15:37   was sort of doing the intro and giving some context about the describing that it's smaller

00:15:43   and so they scaled these keys down more and these keys down less and all that. And as

00:15:46   I'm typing I realize I'm typing at full speed on this keyboard. Which surprised me. And

00:15:53   when I was thinking about how I did it, and I think the key for me was I had to keep some

00:15:58   fingers on the keyboard. Like, one of the advantages of these little keyboards that

00:16:04   are made of fabric, basically, is it doesn't take much to depress the keys. You can feel

00:16:09   them depress, but it's just like almost no force to depress them. And so, if you don't

00:16:16   move your hands very much, so you're always sort of—because orientation is a lot of

00:16:20   the problem with scaled-down keyboards—is you lose your mental map of where the keys

00:16:24   are and then you have to like look down and so wait a second where was that key again

00:16:28   but if I left my my you know not every finger on the keyboard at all times but if I had

00:16:33   a couple fingers on the keyboard like knowing where they were so I could orient based on

00:16:38   that and then put the rest of my fingers down and then type some more almost like typing

00:16:43   while leaving my fingers it's hard to describe it almost like they were down the whole time

00:16:50   not quite, but close. They were rather than lifting them up and waving them around and

00:16:55   then putting them back down. I just sort of like left the fingers down. There are some

00:17:00   long-term probably RSI issues with that because you don't want to be like in super flex

00:17:05   position all the time. But at the same time with that fabric keyboard, it was, I could

00:17:10   almost relax with my fingers sitting on that keyboard. Anyway, as long as I stayed oriented

00:17:16   properly, then I could type and it, you know, it, I wasn't making mistakes and I was typing

00:17:25   at full speed and I was very impressed by that.

00:17:27   Now every time I had to type a key that was not quite in my comfort zone, so I had to

00:17:34   shift, then I lost context and then I slowed way down.

00:17:37   So like, I actually had to create a shortcut where I typed "baby pro" and it expanded

00:17:42   to 9.7-inch iPad Pro, because every time I would do the 9.7, I would have to move my

00:17:50   hands to hit the 9 and then hold down the shift key in order to make the period and

00:17:56   then reach the 7 and then reorient to get my hand, sort of my right hand back where

00:18:01   it needed to be on the keyboard to start typing letters again. And that was not good. So I

00:18:09   came away impressed with the fact that it did not feel like it was impossible to type,

00:18:15   even for me, and I'm finicky, at full speed on this keyboard. I felt like I could really

00:18:19   do it. And so that was surprising. And then the other thing is, the number one reason

00:18:25   I dislike the 12.9-inch iPad Pro Smart Keyboard is I feel like it's really bulky. It adds

00:18:33   It's a lot of weight.

00:18:34   It's big.

00:18:35   You know, it's big.

00:18:36   I mean, it's two-thirds of the weight of the 9.7-inch iPad Pro.

00:18:41   Yeah.

00:18:42   I will say on this point, I use that keyboard every day.

00:18:49   My iPad is constantly connected with that keyboard.

00:18:53   It is my cover as well as my keyboard.

00:18:55   You do get used to it.

00:18:57   I completely agree with you.

00:18:58   It adds weight, it's bulky, it's huge.

00:19:00   you unroll that entire thing, it's massive. But once you get used to it, it is more than

00:19:07   livable.

00:19:08   I just found like I always want to rip it off.

00:19:11   Yeah.

00:19:12   And so I just decided that I was not going to carry it with me all the time, and I replaced

00:19:18   it with a smart cover instead.

00:19:20   Yeah, when I got it, I decided to commit to it, right? And after about a week, it was

00:19:27   fine for me. I didn't really notice it, and I was happy with the benefit that it gave

00:19:31   me. But I can more than sympathize with why somebody may feel that that keyboard is kind

00:19:38   of cumbersome and crazy, because it is.

00:19:40   You gotta use it enough for it to be worth it.

00:19:43   Yeah, exactly.

00:19:44   To have that extra bulk. And I, so here's the thing, because, simply because of physics,

00:19:51   is a much smaller area that it has to cover. It's a much smaller product on the 9.7 inch,

00:19:58   and it's much lighter. And I don't think it's, you know, it's just not as bulky, it doesn't

00:20:04   seem to bother me as much. So carrying it around with the keyboard on it as a cover

00:20:13   feels much more reasonable to me on the 9.7 to the 12. Not only is the 9.7 iPad itself

00:20:18   lighter, but then the keyboard is proportionally lighter than the version that's on the 12.9

00:20:24   because it's covering a much smaller area in terms of the screen size. And so, you can

00:20:30   do the math, it's a lot lighter. And it's a really nice combination. So that also impressed

00:20:37   me that the idea that you would carry this iPad, which is itself much smaller and lighter

00:20:42   than the iPad that I've been using for the last few months, and then you have the keyboard

00:20:46   on there too, so you can walk with that, it's very light and then you sit down at your local

00:20:51   cafe and you pop it open and now you've got a keyboard and you're typing at full speed.

00:20:55   That was pretty cool.

00:20:56   So I was, I ended up coming all the way around on the smart keyboard.

00:21:01   I think it's, I think the smallness of it is not as big a problem as I thought and it's

00:21:06   actually an advantage because it's so much lighter.

00:21:09   So the funny thing is, you effectively are in getting all the benefits that I have and

00:21:16   all the things that I enjoy about it, like the convenience, just having this keyboard

00:21:20   there as part of the whole device, it's also a stand, all of the convenience that I enjoy,

00:21:27   but without the downsides of the physical size and weight of the thing.

00:21:33   Because what you're describing about why you like it is exactly why I like the Smart Cover

00:21:37   on my 12.9 inch iPad.

00:21:39   It's all of those reasons, but there aren't those downsides.

00:21:43   - Yeah, and for everybody it's different.

00:21:47   I mean, if you are, I think that's what I said

00:21:49   about the bigger smart keyboard is, if you use it,

00:21:53   if you need to be somebody who has,

00:21:56   always has a keyboard with you,

00:21:58   attached to the front of your iPad,

00:22:01   then yes, it's worth it for you.

00:22:04   For me, given the way that I use the iPad,

00:22:08   I always have just brought a Bluetooth keyboard with me because I can go into that context,

00:22:14   but a lot of times I'm not in that context and I don't want the extra weight when I'm

00:22:17   just moving around the house.

00:22:19   I sort of enter writing mode and power through on a hardware keyboard and then I leave it

00:22:25   and I go back to just using the software keyboard.

00:22:28   And so for me, that is...

00:22:32   It's not worth it to have that weight.

00:22:33   But if you're using it a lot, then it's totally worth it.

00:22:36   Yeah, it makes sense.

00:22:39   Let's spoil your iPad Pro 9.7 inch review a little bit by talking about the device.

00:22:44   It's a service we can provide.

00:22:46   Yeah, early access.

00:22:47   To upgrade-ions, yes.

00:22:48   So you've had a week with this device now.

00:22:51   Yes sir.

00:22:52   What are your overall feelings?

00:22:55   Do you like this product?

00:22:58   I do.

00:22:59   I think it's, I'm surprised at how much I like it.

00:23:04   It definitely took time for me to get used to the size again, because I had moved, you

00:23:11   know, I was an iPad mini user and then I moved to the iPad Air 2 last summer, and then this

00:23:17   fall I moved to the iPad Pro this winter.

00:23:21   So I have to remind myself, and you know, after having that big iPad Pro, the little

00:23:27   one feels so small.

00:23:31   Like an iPad mini basically.

00:23:33   Yeah, it's very strange.

00:23:34   It's a very strange feeling.

00:23:36   So it's taken some time to, but you know, it's, this is a classic iPad size.

00:23:44   I mean, I think that's the bottom line is that this is what we think of as an iPad is

00:23:48   this product.

00:23:50   And it's been upgraded with all of these other features.

00:23:52   So it is, I expect this will be the best selling iPad.

00:23:56   I think a lot of people who have older iPads will upgrade to this one because of all the

00:24:00   new features that it's got. This is a much—it feels like a much more mainstream product

00:24:05   than the 12.9-inch iPad Pro that I have. And I'm—you know, I like the 12.9-inch iPad

00:24:10   Pro, and I don't regret buying it at all. But I acknowledged—I would acknowledge even

00:24:17   at the time that it's not for everybody, right? Because it is—you gotta want all

00:24:23   the stuff that comes with it. And unfortunately, if you wanted to use the Apple Pencil, your

00:24:29   only option for a few months anyway was to buy that enormous iPad. And now you don't

00:24:35   have to. You only need to buy the enormous iPad if you want an enormous iPad. Otherwise,

00:24:39   you can just get the 9.7-inch classic size iPad. So I think it's going to be a hit because

00:24:46   it's what we've come to think of as an iPad, but it's got all of those features that were

00:24:52   previously only available in the large one, which is more of an outlier. It's more of

00:24:57   an edge case than this one. This is right in the heart of the—it's like the sweet

00:25:01   spot of the iPad product line.

00:25:03   So you mentioned about, you know, people that have used the iPad before would feel good

00:25:07   upgrading to this one. Who is this product for, do you think, and how does this kind

00:25:15   of perception of market differ to the 12.9?

00:25:19   Well I think pro—I understand why they use that term, and we've talked through it a

00:25:23   a lot. The idea here is you're paying more because you want more. Because if you don't

00:25:29   need all of these pro features, you can get the iPad Air 2 for what, $150 less. And it's

00:25:36   not as fast, and it doesn't do the pencil, and it doesn't have the true tone, but it's

00:25:41   got, and it doesn't have that camera, the high-quality camera, but it's cheaper. And

00:25:46   so I think the slot for this is you pay more to get more, it's going to be the top-down

00:25:53   It's going to be the top-of-the-line stuff, and then it's just a matter of what screen

00:26:00   size you want.

00:26:01   Do you want to have a heavier, bulkier, but beautiful giant screen iPad Pro, or do you

00:26:07   want one that doesn't fit as much stuff in split view, but is much lighter and smaller

00:26:15   and easier to carry around?

00:26:18   And those are the differentiators, I think.

00:26:20   Do you think that the type of tasks that people would do on these iPads would be

00:26:27   different? Do you think that there is, you know, say you've got the the crowd of

00:26:31   people now that are switching more to iPads for work like me and you're doing

00:26:38   more of it and we obviously just Federico and you know many people we know

00:26:41   are starting to transition more and more of their stuff like that is the current

00:26:44   meme whether you like it or not people are doing more of this stuff. Do you

00:26:49   think that that kind of transition is better served to the 12.9 than the 9.7?

00:26:57   I think it's a personal decision, right? I mean, I do think it has to do with… and

00:27:04   it's not just… I mean, we talk about this a lot, but with computers sometimes, there's

00:27:10   so many different variables that go into it, because what makes somebody select a MacBook,

00:27:15   Or what makes somebody select a MacBook Air versus a Retina MacBook Pro?

00:27:21   And then within those, what makes somebody select the 15 or the 13 or the 11?

00:27:28   That has to do with how they use it in terms of personal style, the tools they're using.

00:27:35   We were talking before we came on the air about the difference between you like to put

00:27:38   things in full screen mode and have some different spaces, and I just had everything in one space

00:27:44   so some personal style comes into some of these decisions, I think, and on the iPads

00:27:50   as well. And then physical issues, too. It's like, where are you using it, and how are

00:27:55   you carrying it around, and what's most comfortable for you? And all of that factors

00:28:00   into it. So I feel like it's good that we have choices because not everybody wants exactly

00:28:07   the same thing, but that the difference between the one and the other really is a personal

00:28:13   decision based on what your values are, what's more important to you and what's less important

00:28:19   to me. And for me, I've really, with the big one, I feel like by having all that extra

00:28:25   screen space, I don't mind the weight in bulk, although it's definitely noticeable,

00:28:31   and I like what I get in return. I like the fact that it's basically sidelined my MacBook

00:28:36   Air because of that. But I could see that for most people, it's probably the other

00:28:42   which is this, you know, I'm comfortable with that screen the size that it is. I don't

00:28:48   need the extra room for what I'm trying to do, whether it's sketching things or,

00:28:54   you know, writing emails or whatever they're doing.

00:28:57   I'll tell you why some of the reasons I'm asking this question is I'm trying to understand

00:29:01   something about myself that I haven't got an answer to right now, and it's did the

00:29:08   iPad Pro show me that I could do work on the iPad or is the iPad Pro the large one the

00:29:18   only iPad I can do my work on? Was it going to happen anyway? Would I have made this transition

00:29:26   eventually even with the Air 2 or was it only because of the screen size and the real estate

00:29:34   that makes me want to do that. That's what I can't understand. Like, was the advancements

00:29:40   made in iOS 9 and the way that that was starting to move, would that have always pushed me

00:29:44   in this direction or was it that product, the big product that made me make that decision?

00:29:51   And it's one of the reasons why I have my, I updated my, turned on basically my Air 2

00:29:57   a couple of days ago just to kind of, because I haven't touched it since I got the Pro.

00:30:02   And I was starting to move more stuff over to that.

00:30:05   I remember the split screen stuff when all of that started to hit.

00:30:08   It was making me like using the iPad more and more again.

00:30:12   But I'm not sure if I really would have taken the big leaps that I have now, my preference

00:30:17   being just that device.

00:30:20   When I went to Romania, it's the first time I've made a trip like that.

00:30:23   I didn't have a Mac with me.

00:30:25   I didn't take it and it was totally fine.

00:30:27   And I was working on that trip.

00:30:29   I'm trying to understand like would like say Apple released the 9.7 inch pro first would

00:30:37   I have felt the same about that device I don't know I don't know I it's yeah it's hard to

00:30:46   say I think the it all it all kind of got wrapped up it wrapped up together using the

00:30:52   9.7-inch iPad Pro now, I feel like a lot of the stuff that I'm doing on the bigger iPad

00:31:02   Pro I can do on it, and it's fine, but having had the experience on the larger screen, I

00:31:09   – you know, what was it?

00:31:11   I think I heard Marc Arment say on ATP the other week, you know, once you get the bigger

00:31:17   screen, you never go back to the smaller screen.

00:31:20   You're like, "Why would I do that?

00:31:22   screens are better. And that's not entirely true because if there's a reason enough, like

00:31:30   I went to the 11-inch MacBook Air, right, that was a smaller laptop than I had used

00:31:34   before. But I went to it because it was so small and light and portable and that was

00:31:40   all great. But my point is that using the 9.7 now after using the 12.9, I say to myself,

00:31:49   "Boy, this is really tight. There's not as much stuff on the screen." If I'm not using

00:31:56   the keyboard, that keyboard slides up and gets in the way. I also don't like the classic

00:32:02   iPad keyboard now that I've spent time with that iPad Pro keyboard that's full-sized and

00:32:06   has the number row and all of that.

00:32:08   It looks like a toy keyboard.

00:32:10   I know. It looks like my first keyboard. I think if we were in the context of the iPad

00:32:18   Air 2 and then the next thing that came out was the the iPad Pro 9.7 inch. I think it

00:32:24   would be a little bit of a step forward. I think would be a little less exciting for

00:32:28   those of us who don't use the Apple Pencil especially because I think that's a big part

00:32:32   of this. So I think it would not have been as big a step. I think the 12.9 was a big

00:32:39   step because it added all of the kind of pro features and that the screen size you know

00:32:46   Split View and Slide Over, although they're nice on the smaller models, Split View is

00:32:52   made for the 12.9. It is so powerful in there, and it's a compromised experience.

00:32:58   Probably why they did it, right, in the first place.

00:33:01   Yeah, I think that's exactly it. So what are we going to do with a huge iPad screen?

00:33:04   Well, if we're going to have a screen that big, we'd better be able to run more than

00:33:07   one app in it.

00:33:08   Yeah. It's like you really see, they had an idea for that product, they tried it out,

00:33:13   they were like, "No, this is silly. These apps are just huge now. We need to think about

00:33:19   this again."

00:33:20   Right. Right. So I guess I've come by wandering through this train of thought. I guess what

00:33:26   I would say is that I don't think the 9.7-inch iPad Pro would have been as impressive to

00:33:33   you or me if it was just the follow-up to the Air 2 and there had been no larger model

00:33:40   because the screen size is part of the story of the appeal of that product. Now, for a

00:33:46   lot of people, it's not a reason enough, I think, but you could also make an argument

00:33:51   that the 9.7 is a nice product that people are going to like, but having the 12.9 out

00:33:57   there hovering out there is going to, as time goes on, possibly appeal to some of those

00:34:02   people who think, "Boy, this is really all great, but what I really need is more screen

00:34:07   space for the stuff that I'm doing. And it's, you know, it's available for them once they

00:34:11   make that decision too.

00:34:12   And it is that line of thinking that gets John Suri's 25-inch iPad, right? You know,

00:34:19   that's the line of thinking.

00:34:20   Ultimately, I think that's probably true. Like, if there's a market for it, this is,

00:34:26   you know, we'll talk about the iPhone SE, I imagine, in a little bit, but this is the

00:34:30   same idea that there used to be a time when Apple made a product, right? And it was like

00:34:33   they would find the sweet spot, they'd be like, "Yeah, okay, this is the sweet spot,

00:34:38   here's the iPhone. This is the sweet spot, here's the iPad." And they don't do that

00:34:42   anymore. They have the freedom now to make more than one product in a product line, and

00:34:48   they get to hit more of those spots, because there are people who have interests outside

00:34:52   of the sweet spot, even if it's the sweetest of the spots, there are many other spots.

00:34:57   So that's the beauty of having this iPad line the way it is now, is that that 12.9

00:35:02   is out there. Just like, you know, 13-inch MacBook Pro may be the sweet spot, but 15

00:35:10   is there, and for some people it's a way better product. And I always felt that way about

00:35:15   being the 11-inch Air user, is that I never considered the 11-inch Air to be arguably

00:35:21   the most valid laptop that Apple makes for the most people. I never felt that way. It

00:35:27   was always an outlier. But I was happy that there were enough of us who wanted that product

00:35:33   that they made that product.

00:35:37   So does this have a place for you? Do you think that this is something you'd want

00:35:41   to have around?

00:35:45   The 9.7?

00:35:46   Yeah.

00:35:47   Well, nah.

00:35:48   No.

00:35:49   Nah.

00:35:50   No.

00:35:51   I would have to—if my life was different, my decisions might be different.

00:36:01   But for the way that I live my life now, the 12.9 makes the most sense for me, I think.

00:36:06   When I travel with it, I've got a bag and I'm taking it with me.

00:36:10   The lightness—if I was in something where I needed something that was as light as possible,

00:36:14   something I could just carry with me with a keyboard and do work if I was maybe commuting

00:36:19   on a bus or a train or something like that. I might be more inclined to do the 9.7 I suppose,

00:36:28   but I don't think I would want to go back from the 12.9.

00:36:34   Okay, one thing I've been looking at this, you know, just as you do, especially because

00:36:40   last time when this, well when we had the Pro come out originally, one of the big stories

00:36:47   that we were covering quite a lot, we're talking a lot about this, we gave it quite a lot of

00:36:50   time, was the constraints that Apple seemed to have over the whole product line.

00:36:57   The pencil and the keyboard were really, really badly backordered from the get go.

00:37:03   Now, the pencil seems pretty much fine now. They've been producing that for a while,

00:37:09   but the keyboard cover, the smart keyboard for the 9.7 inch is also multiple weeks backordered.

00:37:16   This seems like a very strange thing to happen again.

00:37:19   Well, it's a new product, right? So they're ramping it. So that seems to be the story,

00:37:24   which is not a new story for Apple. Apple has, throughout its recent history, had supply

00:37:32   constraint problems with new products.

00:37:35   And that feels like, and I wonder how much of that is,

00:37:38   they're doing a better job with iPhones and things now,

00:37:40   but I wonder how much of that too is also like

00:37:42   tied to secrecy, like there's certain stuff

00:37:44   they could probably do to make it ramp faster,

00:37:47   but they can't because they don't wanna give away things.

00:37:49   I don't know.

00:37:50   But like the pencil is a good example

00:37:52   where it seems to be flowing a lot more freely now

00:37:55   because they've been making them for a while.

00:37:56   And that doesn't just mean they have them in stock.

00:37:59   It also means that the production line is,

00:38:02   is not being stopped every two hours because there's a problem. They've kind of figured

00:38:06   out how to make these things at scale.

00:38:08   But the iPad itself doesn't seem to be having problems, and the original Pro did. And you'd

00:38:15   like to think that they have an idea of how to make, a better idea of how to make this

00:38:19   keyboard cover because they make the other one. It was just a peculiar thing for me to

00:38:24   see that this is a story again, or at least a thing again after last time. It just seems

00:38:30   like a strange thing to occur because even though you know these are all separate items

00:38:35   that go into this product line this product really is complete for many people when you

00:38:41   own all of the component pieces that the pencil and the keyboard.

00:38:45   I also wonder I mean that smart keyboard is a very strange product it's this you know

00:38:51   the fabric the ablated fabric and the all of the the way it's constructed I do wonder

00:38:59   it's complicated to produce that.

00:39:01   And if they've had some issues with that, keeping in mind that my guess is the volumes

00:39:10   for the 9.7 and all its accessories will be dramatically bigger than the volumes for the

00:39:16   12.9.

00:39:18   This is such a more popular product because it's the mainstream size iPad that even if

00:39:27   they're making a lot more of them, they could still hit shortages immediately because they're

00:39:30   probably selling a lot more of them. So I don't know. We didn't even mention, although

00:39:36   I mentioned in my story that we were talking about earlier, I asked again about these keyboards

00:39:44   because this does seem to be one of the defining, like with the pencil, these are the defining

00:39:49   aspects of this product. What makes an iPad an iPad Pro? It's the pencil and the keyboard.

00:39:56   And there have been no smart connector accessories released since the last iPad was released.

00:40:03   There are now three smart connector accessories, and it's the two smart keyboards and the Logitech

00:40:07   Create.

00:40:08   Those are the only ones that have been released, which is weird.

00:40:13   And I asked Apple, "Is there a program?"

00:40:16   Yes, there's a licensing program.

00:40:17   "Is there stuff in the works?"

00:40:18   Yeah, there's stuff in the works, but where are they?

00:40:23   So that may suggest that it's more difficult to make these products than, or expensive

00:40:29   to make them than we thought.

00:40:31   Perhaps there are issues with the smart connector format, or perhaps there are issues with what

00:40:36   you have to pay Apple to use it.

00:40:37   I don't know.

00:40:39   But that's an interesting part of it.

00:40:41   And then also, the last time I talked to Apple about this, when the iPad Pro came out, they

00:40:46   said that international keyboards would follow. And it happens.

00:40:54   They're still following, but who knows what they're following.

00:40:56   And I asked again, and they said, "Same story. They will follow." Like, they aren't

00:41:02   backing off of their idea that there will be international keyboard layouts. And the

00:41:06   funny thing is, they could do what they did on a software keyboard for the 12.9-inch iPad

00:41:11   Pro, which is they could label an international key set on the keys that are shaped for the

00:41:21   US key set.

00:41:22   I would prefer them to just not bother if that's what they're gonna do.

00:41:25   Well, they haven't bothered yet.

00:41:29   If they were just gonna change the glyphs, then there's no point doing it.

00:41:33   They might as well just leave it as it is.

00:41:35   Yeah, I think I agree with that.

00:41:37   Because the biggest problem we have is that the key shapes are different, right?

00:41:40   Right, the key shapes are different. So this is the, I bring that up to say that I think

00:41:46   that's a part of this too, which is obviously there are some production issues with this

00:41:49   keyboard because they have talked about doing an international layout and they haven't.

00:41:54   They went on record at the 12.9 launch about it.

00:41:58   Yes, they did and they restated it last week and yet, where is it?

00:42:04   Yeah, good point.

00:42:05   Where is that? And so I think that feeds into perhaps shortages of this stuff is that it

00:42:10   it's a complicated product, it's hard to ship it at volume, and they have been unable to

00:42:15   do a variation of it at this point for other markets. So, I don't know, it's a strange

00:42:22   thing to see.

00:42:24   >> Another quibble with the accessories is that the smart covers do not transfer over

00:42:34   from the airline. The magnets are different, which is a strange thing to do, I think, because

00:42:40   these covers are very expensive now, they're like $50.

00:42:43   - I would love to know if there's a real technical reason.

00:42:48   And my guess is that there is.

00:42:51   My guess is that there's a reason that it's different

00:42:53   and that Apple's not just breaking compatibility

00:42:55   because they wanna sell more accessories,

00:42:57   although that's possible.

00:42:58   I think, I feel like that's never the primary justification

00:43:02   for Apple to do something.

00:43:04   They may also be well aware

00:43:06   that they're gonna sell more accessories

00:43:07   if they make them incompatible,

00:43:09   but I would, I, having talked to those people a lot, I doubt it's ever the primary reason.

00:43:19   It's just sort of like a bonus that comes along with it that everybody has to spend

00:43:22   another $50. It could have something to do with the placement of the magnets on the edge

00:43:28   because of the smart connector, that the smart connector kind of makes the old style not

00:43:36   compatible because they had to move stuff around in order to make the smart

00:43:41   connector where it is. It's also possible that this has to do with a problem with

00:43:47   the existing smart cover design that they've been dying to fix for a while.

00:43:53   Like, because the new smart covers also come out further. There's more, they're a

00:43:59   little bit wider. There's actually more coverage which means that if you place

00:44:02   face down, you can see more cover sticking out the edge. It doesn't go right on the screen

00:44:09   top, it kind of sticks out a little bit. And some people are complaining about that, that

00:44:15   they think that looks ugly. But I look at that and I wonder if maybe this is the people

00:44:20   who make these accessories saying, "We had a lot of problems where they were coming open,

00:44:25   so we changed the magnet. We've been working on a better smart cover for a couple of years

00:44:29   now because we weren't satisfied with that. They never said anything like that, though,

00:44:33   so that may or may not be the case, but I wonder, because they said nothing. They literally

00:44:38   just announced that there are iPad Pro smart covers, and yes, I tried with the old iPad

00:44:44   Air smart covers, and it totally doesn't work. So the clasp is reversed, the polarity on

00:44:51   the clasp is reversed. I think intentionally to say, "This is not, do not eat. This is

00:44:56   not a product you can use. But yeah, so that's extra money for anybody who's upgrading. You

00:45:02   don't get to use your old case or unless it's, yeah, if it relies on the magnets at all,

00:45:08   it's not going to be compatible.

00:45:10   >> Let's talk about some other stuff. Maybe the iPhone. I have a watch band I want to

00:45:16   talk about. Do you have anything else you wanted to just to wrap up on the iPad? I guess

00:45:21   people should look out for your full review on Six Colors.

00:45:24   - Yeah, it will happen at some point if I can.

00:45:28   I'm looking at it now, but it's not done.

00:45:32   The True Tone, I just wanted to say it's a cool feature.

00:45:37   I'm not sure anybody would say that it's a must have feature

00:45:42   but it does do what it says.

00:45:45   It does dynamically change the color temperature

00:45:50   of the screen to try and match it,

00:45:53   to fit it more into your room.

00:45:55   I found it a much better feature

00:45:56   than the auto brightness feature,

00:45:58   which has always really bugged me

00:45:59   'cause I felt like it was adjusting the brightness

00:46:02   and my eyes had already adjusted to the screen brightness

00:46:05   and then it would pull the rug out from under me.

00:46:07   I don't feel that way about the True Tone.

00:46:09   The True Tone is, you know,

00:46:12   in my indoors with incandescent light,

00:46:15   it does a pretty good job of sort of yellowing everything up

00:46:19   but making it all feel much more natural.

00:46:20   and it's a fun feature.

00:46:22   - Does it do much to help reading outdoors?

00:46:26   - No. - Okay.

00:46:31   - No, and I think the reduction in glare is a little bit,

00:46:35   I mean, it's not overstated,

00:46:36   but I think we need to not make too big a deal

00:46:38   over the fact that it's got less glare.

00:46:39   It's the same glare coating as the last one.

00:46:42   The difference is just they've changed

00:46:43   some of the underlayers to be a little less glarey,

00:46:45   but I took it outside and still struggled

00:46:50   in the shade to read, and certainly in the sun struggled to read.

00:46:54   It's no Kindle, right? No, I mean, I cranked up the brightness all the way.

00:46:58   I said the volume, the light volume. I cranked up the brightness all the way, and it was still,

00:47:04   in bright sunlight it comes across as being black text on a kind of gray background.

00:47:15   it's the contrast. It's just, you know, it's not bright enough and there's still glare,

00:47:21   even though it's less glare-y. There's still glare and you compare that, it's still a backlit

00:47:27   screen competing against the sun and a Kindle is a reflective screen working with the sun.

00:47:32   So, you know, it's not, don't kid yourself. Can you read outside with an iPad Pro? Sure,

00:47:39   but I wouldn't choose to do it, especially in bright sunlight.

00:47:45   it. Anything else? Ah, that's, I mean, the camera is the camera you know from the iPad

00:47:52   or the iPhone and that's great that they did that. I just, that's what I would say. Oh,

00:47:59   and also because of geometry, if you lay it down, even though it's got a camera bump,

00:48:05   if you lay it down on a table, it doesn't rock or anything. I saw a tweet go by that

00:48:10   that somebody measured it and that the actual iPad itself is ever so slightly curved to

00:48:16   help balance that out.

00:48:18   It's possible.

00:48:19   I don't know if that's true, but if that is true, that's such an Apple thing to do, right?

00:48:24   I think the biggest thing is that it's got so much more surface area that the difference

00:48:29   in angles from the corners is not over distance.

00:48:36   It's not appreciable.

00:48:37   So it's built to sit on those four edges and not rock.

00:48:44   It doesn't.

00:48:45   Yeah, it treats the camera thing as the edge.

00:48:49   Which is also an interesting thing to me because I feel like you would so easily scratch that

00:48:52   camera but I like to think that they thought about that.

00:48:57   I just feel like putting the device up and down, up and down, hitting the table, hitting

00:49:02   the desk, hitting the concrete.

00:49:03   like it any other I feel like it maybe hasn't been so much of an issue on

00:49:08   previous models but I feel like it could be more here but we'll see what happens

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00:51:35   So I wanted to check out one of these woven nylon bands for the Apple Watch.

00:51:42   By the time that I could put my order in, there was very little available in stores.

00:51:47   I put on order the royal blue, as I figured that would be the color that I would like

00:51:52   the most.

00:51:54   But I went via my Apple store just a few days ago before the iPad Pros were there and they

00:52:03   had the gold and red version in stock in 42.

00:52:07   It was the only one that they had.

00:52:09   And I figured I'll give it a go.

00:52:11   I wasn't sure what I thought about the colour but I thought I'd give it a go.

00:52:16   So I've been wearing this thing for a few days and I really like it a lot actually.

00:52:21   I think I actually prefer it to sport bands. It looks a lot better than I expected. It's

00:52:27   actually quite a nice understated, classy look and the buckle, which is very much like

00:52:32   the leather buckle, the little metal buckle on it, is very classy. It does a great job.

00:52:39   I find the nylon to be very comfortable itself and it's solving a problem that I was having

00:52:47   with my sport bands in that I can wear it tighter, more comfortably. I've found recently

00:52:53   that my watch band is a little loose. I have been on a diet, I don't know if that's affected

00:52:59   it, maybe it's all in my head, but I've found that I really wanted to tighten my sport band

00:53:04   up a little bit, but in doing so it was either too tight or just a little too loose, in so

00:53:09   much that sometimes I was finding throughout the day that my watch was locking itself because

00:53:14   it wasn't in great contact with my skin. And whilst I do find the sport bands to still

00:53:20   be great, I love the way they look, I'm actually probably going to buy one of the yellow ones,

00:53:25   I think I'm going to be wearing the nylon band more. It's thinner, it feels less comfortable,

00:53:32   it's lighter, and it feels less comfortable? More, I meant less cumbersome. Okay. I'm mixing

00:53:40   up the words comfortable and cumbersome now. I almost got you there, I almost trapped you.

00:53:44   So close. So I will restate that it is less cumbersome because it's lighter and thinner

00:53:49   and I find it just the texture of the material to be more comfortable. I never really found

00:53:55   that I was sweaty or anything from sport bands, I never found them itchy in any way or anything

00:54:00   that I know that some people have, but I just think that overall this is a nicer feeling

00:54:06   band than the sport band. I'm a big fan of this actually, I think it sits better as well

00:54:13   because some of the sport bands, what they do is they kind of seem to take their own shape

00:54:19   right, so the edges where the lugs go, they kind of break out and then loop back around your wrist

00:54:26   if that makes sense, so it leaves some air gaps in the corners

00:54:30   the nylon band doesn't do that, it feels to wrap to my wrist a lot more

00:54:34   and Adina tried one on and she has tiny, tiny wrists and it really fit her a lot better as well

00:54:40   than the sport band does where you could put like a pencil in between the watch and her

00:54:45   arm around where the lugs go. So yeah, I think that this is a really great product and in

00:54:52   all honesty I can see why the sport now seems to by default come with one of these. I think

00:54:57   it's actually a better starting band than the sport band and now I really feel that

00:55:03   the sport band is fulfilling its original goal in that it is for sport.

00:55:09   I've been surprised at how much I like the sport band.

00:55:16   I love the sport bands, don't get me wrong, like I really do and I will continue to wear

00:55:19   them, but the nylon band I actually think is a better band.

00:55:25   Interesting. I will have to try one at some point.

00:55:28   You should. Yeah, fine, maybe grab the black one or something, right, because some of the

00:55:31   colors are strange. There's a really kind of, I think a little bit cheeky thing that

00:55:37   Apple have done, there are a couple of colours where in the reverse they're different models.

00:55:44   So you can kind of see this if you look at the store and I want to bring it up so I can

00:55:49   tell you the actual colours where I've seemed to have noticed this from. And I've seen people

00:55:55   like asking in the FAQs if these are reversible, they're not reversible, the lugs don't work

00:56:02   in the opposite and the band won't clasp together.

00:56:06   But so if you take a look at maybe the gold and red and the gold and royal blue, if you

00:56:14   look at the images, the colours reverse.

00:56:18   So the red is on the outside and the gold red and the blue is on the inside.

00:56:24   And then when you select the other one, it's the opposite.

00:56:27   And I think that's really interesting because that's Apple, they're making one strap and

00:56:30   just putting the buckles on differently. That's interesting right? Like that is a supply chain

00:56:37   thing that is maximising production.

00:56:40   Fascinating.

00:56:41   Yeah, it was, you know, I don't really feel too strongly about this but I just think that

00:56:48   it's an interesting thing that they're doing at least. But yeah I've got a royal blue one

00:56:52   on the way too because that's my favourite looking of all the colours on the site so

00:56:57   I'm excited to try out more of these because I'm obsessed with blind watch bands.

00:57:02   Yeah, clearly. Thank you. Well, I'm glad somebody is out there trying all the watch bands.

00:57:08   I'm on the beat.

00:57:09   And I'm glad it's not me.

00:57:11   I'm on the watch band beat.

00:57:13   Yep.

00:57:14   iPhone SE.

00:57:15   Yeah.

00:57:16   This is a, you know, as with many of the reviews that I've read of this product, they kind

00:57:23   write themselves in a lot of ways, right? Like, if you know what the 5S is, you know

00:57:29   what this is. But I enjoyed reading your review as I did others, mainly just for the thinking

00:57:40   that goes into the product. And one of my favourite parts about your review is kind

00:57:45   of breaking down the "should you make this decision?" and the ramifications of making

00:57:50   the decision of going back to the SE, right? Like, yeah, this feels great and would fit

00:57:56   in with the product that you have now, but in about six months' time, you're gonna feel

00:58:01   bad again.

00:58:02   Yeah, that's, I think that's the key. I think what I said in my review was this is the product

00:58:10   for people who are committed to the 4-inch phone lifestyle. Because if you like the 4-inch

00:58:18   phone, but the most important thing is to be on the cutting edge. You will not be on

00:58:24   the cutting edge for very long with this phone, for the first six months of its life, maybe,

00:58:28   and then not again. And for, I think, a lot of people, the people who are going to be

00:58:34   buying this phone, that's fine, right? Either they don't care, and this is the cheapest

00:58:39   iPhone and it works for them, or they don't care because they want the 4-inch phone, and

00:58:45   It's way better than the 5S, and so, yay, they win.

00:58:51   But if you're somebody like John Gruber, who really loves the 4-inch size and design, but,

00:58:57   let's be serious, is a giant tech nerd and is going to get the iPhone 7 when it comes

00:59:01   out because it's going to have some must-have features that he's going to have to have,

00:59:05   and that'll be, that's fine for Gruber, as they say, because he's going to get them all,

00:59:13   he's a very, you know, into this sort of thing. This is his thing. This is what he does. So

00:59:19   of course he's going to try all those things out. But if you're just a regular person who

00:59:24   gets a phone every couple of years, that's a bad direction to go. Because if you get

00:59:29   this phone now, you know, it's currently at the cutting edge, but that cut was made last

00:59:36   fall. So it's already, it's not, I had a couple of people quibble when I said that this is

00:59:41   is sort of 2012 design and 2015 technology. They're like, "Well, no, it's 2016 technology."

00:59:47   It's like, "Well, no, it's 2015 technology. 2016 technology will be out this fall. This

00:59:53   is last fall's model. It's already aging tech."

00:59:57   - 2016 technology includes True Tone, right? That's 2016 technology.

01:00:01   - Right. I suppose so. Maybe not on an iPhone, maybe, we'll see. But whatever comes out

01:00:06   this fall, that'll be the cutting edge. So this is a phone that is not for people who

01:00:11   are obsessed with the cutting edge latest features of Apple's products, but are more

01:00:14   concerned with having a phone that they like that is the design and a size that they like,

01:00:22   or a price that they like. And there will never be a better time to buy the iPhone SE

01:00:29   because they'll probably be selling it in a year and a half, too, and it'll be way behind

01:00:33   designed then, and I hope that they will update this, I don't think every year, but maybe

01:00:38   every other year. We'll just sort of put some new internals or they'll replace it with

01:00:42   a new design, but it remains a four. By the way, I feel like we haven't sufficiently gloated

01:00:47   enough given how much we talked about the merits of a four-inch iPhone like a year ago.

01:00:54   Like to the point where I think people started to say, "Stop talking about the four-inch

01:00:58   iPhone. It's never going to happen." But it happened.

01:01:01   You were right on that one. You have been saying it.

01:01:03   #JasonWasRight.

01:01:04   Jason was right. Yeah, you did it.

01:01:08   So let's, there, we took the moment. So yeah, that's the SE. It's a great phone and you

01:01:13   just need to know like if this is going to be the phone you're committing to use for

01:01:18   the next few years, not because it's necessarily even on a contract, but it's, you know, it

01:01:23   costs, it has a pretty decent price tag. You want to buy a phone and then use it for a

01:01:28   while. Be aware that if you're the kind of person who gets lured by the siren song

01:01:34   of the latest Apple features that come every fall, this is not the phone for you.

01:01:38   If you've been totally fine on the 5S for a long time and you wanted that because you

01:01:43   loved it, you probably shouldn't hesitate too much to get this because it's perfect.

01:01:48   You are already somebody who is okay with waiting a few years because you've waited

01:01:51   a few years. So, take a look at this. I think this should be a serious consideration for

01:01:56   people unless you like shiny and new. If you like shiny and new, it doesn't look shiny

01:02:01   and new, right?

01:02:02   [Music ends]

01:02:03   Everyone who bought, everyone who has a 5S or a 5 that they're still using, this is the

01:02:07   phone for them. I think. Because otherwise, unless they've, you know, really just been,

01:02:14   they've got other reasons, let's say, to wait to buy a new phone. Like, presumably, they've

01:02:20   held on because they're comfortable with this phone and they have not liked the look of

01:02:24   the new phones. So, you know, I think for those people, this is it. You get your same

01:02:29   phone that you're comfortable with, but now it's got almost all of the top of the line

01:02:34   features of these other phones. So you'll get Apple Pay now, and you'll get the faster

01:02:40   processor and you'll get the way better camera. But it'll still feel like your phone. It'll

01:02:46   fit in your case. Unlike the iPad Pro, which broke all those accessories, our friends at

01:02:52   Studio Neat made the point of pointing out that they've got the glyph is now available

01:02:57   for the iPhone SE because it's just an iPhone 5. All iPhone 5 cases now have more value.

01:03:06   It's amazing.

01:03:07   I don't really know what else to say about this.

01:03:11   No, no. It's, um, I think that's it. I think, I think that's the story. As I said to Ren

01:03:17   last week, writing reviews of these things is a challenge. And I mentioned that on the

01:03:23   Six Colors podcast too last week. And I think I said on the Six Colors podcast, my reviews

01:03:29   are going to be kind of weird because there's nothing new. Mostly what's new is just the

01:03:36   mixing around and the strategy.

01:03:38   - The marketing.

01:03:39   - Yeah. And so we covered that here, which is, I think, in the end, it's like, who should

01:03:43   buy this and you know should I consider it and I feel like there's a fairly clear dividing

01:03:47   line which like does it matter that you're on the cutting edge because this is never

01:03:51   going to be the cutting edge phone or does the do the intangibles of this product matter

01:03:55   more and like we were saying about iPads and laptops and things like that Apple is now

01:03:59   free to sell phones in three different sizes that are using their current tech and you

01:04:05   get to pick based on some other issues of you know do you want the really large phone

01:04:11   like you do, Myke, right? Or do you want the really small phone? You have choices. And

01:04:18   for the people who want this because it is a four-inch phone, because they're comfortable

01:04:22   with that size and that design, they're going to be really happy. And that's what it's there

01:04:27   for.

01:04:28   >> Yeah. That's the product, right? That's why it's here now. That's why it's announced

01:04:34   now. It's simple. They're adding something to the line. There's not going to be another

01:04:39   one in September.

01:04:40   They didn't compromise and make it like an iPhone 6 that it's it's the processor from the 6s

01:04:46   So it's it's not already a year and a half old tech

01:04:50   It's the current top of the line model tech for a much lower price

01:04:55   With you know with a couple of it doesn't do 3d touch, right?

01:04:58   but you know, it's in the front facing camera is not very good, but

01:05:01   But yeah, it's it's a it's pretty great for what for what it is and at a pretty great price the lowest

01:05:09   brand new iPhone price ever so

01:05:12   There's a lot going for it. But yeah, that's about it. That's how it works

01:05:16   aloha

01:05:18   Hello, this week's episode is brought to you by

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01:07:14   It's Ask Upgrade time.

01:07:16   Yeah, Ask Upgrade. All right. We had fun last week. It was... All right. We had fun last

01:07:23   week with the, uh, the, I was doing some Bob's burgers there. Um, the, uh, we had fun last

01:07:29   week. It was kind of cool to be able to curate the questions and some of the Ask Upgrade

01:07:33   questions for, for Serenity. It was a lot of fun, but it's good. It's good that you're

01:07:36   back. It's classic Ask Upgrade now.

01:07:38   Yeah, it was nice and extended. I think that was a good way of doing it because there were

01:07:41   very specific questions that people may have pent up demand to ask that we can't usually

01:07:46   answer because we don't have the skills that Ren has. Start off with a question from Harlequin

01:07:51   I was wondering what happened to the Google Play podcast initiative if I remember correctly you guys spoke about it a while back

01:07:57   I would love to know

01:07:59   Nothing so far. I don't think it's difficult for me to know because

01:08:03   It's not available at all

01:08:06   in the UK

01:08:09   Right now I believe that Google Play podcast is available for some people in the US

01:08:15   But as of right now

01:08:18   If there is anything going on Google will not making a massive fanfare about it

01:08:22   Yeah, I haven't even looked yet. I should do that in in my I have my little my test Android phone here

01:08:30   Yep, we've checked it out and we're looking at it for relay FM, but in regards to a big launch

01:08:37   I don't actually think that's happened yet

01:08:39   No, it seems like they're testing it

01:08:42   Yeah, I think they've got a small group of people in but like I can't do anything

01:08:46   I can't even if I log on in the UK, I can't even get any information

01:08:49   So I believe I trust that it is still happening and still coming

01:08:54   But I think Google was still trying to iron out some of the kinks on their end

01:08:58   But yeah, we're looking into it and I'm excited about it. I am actually genuinely excited about it

01:09:03   It's there's a lot of movement right now in the podcast world directory wise we have iTunes

01:09:10   We've had iTunes forever

01:09:11   forever, but I feel like there's going to be another one, whether it will be Google

01:09:16   or Spotify or someone. There's going to be another big player at some point, and I'm

01:09:21   very interested to see where that ends up shaking out.

01:09:24   Yeah, because essentially there's been no major directory player in podcasting since

01:09:30   Apple launched its directory in like 2005.

01:09:33   Yep.

01:09:34   It's all this, all this growth has sort of flowered with, I mean, that's the beauty of

01:09:37   decentralization of it, but at the same time, it makes discovery problematic if you talk to,

01:09:42   like, the way we know that Overcast works, like, Overcast does a lot of checking against the

01:09:48   iTunes directory. You know, just to make sure something is public, for example, that's one of

01:09:55   the things it will do. And that's just, it's fascinating that, you know, there's no, you know,

01:10:02   know the truth is in the cloud right? What's the truth of whether a podcast exists and

01:10:08   how you search it? Right now the truth is iTunes for podcasts and that's fine because

01:10:15   that's been a fairly open system unlike the App Store you know basically you can get your

01:10:20   podcast into iTunes quite easily and the Apple's just added some new tools for podcasters to

01:10:25   control that used to all be kind of totally opaque except for a few partners and now there's

01:10:30   more based on iTunes Connect now which is fantastic.

01:10:33   Yeah, so it's a better system, but it's the only one and the only one is never, that's

01:10:39   never good that you only have the one and it's controlled by this one company. So I

01:10:45   think it'll be more of a pain for all of us, I suppose, as podcasters, but I think for

01:10:50   podcast listeners it'll be good to have a little more, you know, more diversity in the

01:10:57   places that you can look for podcasts than right now.

01:11:00   >> Yeah, I'm just excited about the idea of there being something that can play podcasts

01:11:06   on basically every Android phone right out of the box.

01:11:11   >> Yeah, well, let's see how they do it, right? I worry that they're going to screw it up

01:11:16   because they've just fundamentally, we talked about this a while ago, putting it inside

01:11:20   Google Music. It's not music, so that's a bad place to put it, but that's where it is.

01:11:26   That's where Apple started.

01:11:27   That's where Apple started.

01:11:28   Yeah, there you go.

01:11:29   Jinx.

01:11:30   Yeah.

01:11:31   But it's, you know, there may be eventually if it gets traction they'll split it out again,

01:11:36   but time will tell.

01:11:37   That would be nice.

01:11:38   That would be nice, yes.

01:11:39   That would be the sweetest thing is if every Android phone came with a dedicated Google

01:11:42   podcast app.

01:11:44   That would be awesome.

01:11:45   Good for podcasts.

01:11:47   Eric asked, "What are your favorite non-drawing apps for use with the Apple Pencil?

01:11:51   I've been playing Supergiant Games Transistor and it's great."

01:11:54   In the same vein, Transistor is like a point and click game.

01:11:58   I would recommend Crashlands as a similar kind of thing.

01:12:02   Games where it's like point and click, you tap to go here, tap to interact, the Apple

01:12:06   Pencil is amazing for that because you are tapping directly onto the screen.

01:12:11   It feels real good.

01:12:13   I think these types of games where you typically are putting multiple hours of work into, it's

01:12:17   better on your hands and actually feels more comfortable to use the Apple Pencil or something

01:12:21   like that.

01:12:22   I recommend that kind of thing. But as I've mentioned before, all apps in my opinion are

01:12:27   improved when navigating with the Apple Pencil. And thank you to Apple for allowing me to

01:12:34   continue doing that.

01:12:35   Rob wrote in, "This is an Inside Baseball question, but how often do you guys re-evaluate

01:12:41   or tweak your editing or effects settings for your podcasts? I make small tweaks to

01:12:48   EQs and levels and compression frequently and there can be many different things that

01:12:54   might do that. You know I'm like listening to maybe this episode and I hear it and as

01:12:58   I'm listening back I'm like "ahh, Jason sounds a little bit different to me here, I'll change

01:13:03   that" you know like today my voice is a little hoarser than usual so I might make some slight

01:13:08   changes there, I might need to increase my volume more than usual, I make little tweaks

01:13:12   like that quite frequently, but in regards to re-evaluating something on a bigger level,

01:13:19   I only really tend to do that kind of thing when there's a big change. An environment

01:13:24   change, an equipment change, or a software change on either my side or a guest or host's

01:13:29   side before I sit down and really will spend hours working on new EQs or something. Which

01:13:35   is only something I very basically understand and my kind of gauge for this stuff is how

01:13:40   does it sound to me?" And that's how I make the change. If I think it sounds good,

01:13:44   then that's what I do. It's just a personal preference thing. I think for a lot of people,

01:13:49   I think, do it that way. Whether they understand it or not, it's how it sounds to the area.

01:13:53   Like me and you master the show differently because it's just the way it sounds to us.

01:13:56   Yeah, and I've got different presets. I also have presets. I do adjust them basically

01:14:01   per show most of the time to try to get the levels to be in so that there's not like

01:14:07   a loud person and a quiet person. And I've got presets for EQ and compression, although

01:14:14   I always change the compression. I think my default compression should probably be changed,

01:14:18   and I'll do that. But there's some inertia there. And then, yeah, we do have different

01:14:23   presets, which is interesting. In fact, for a while we were talking about how I had a

01:14:27   bunch of presets in Logic and you didn't. You've sort of slowly added some more effects

01:14:32   over time.

01:14:33   Yeah, I was a little bit intimidated.

01:14:34   Yeah, well it is intimidating. It's not made for people who are not sort of audio

01:14:41   engineers to understand. And likewise, I don't have a listening party for every podcast I

01:14:48   put out. It's what goes into my ears. I usually edit on the speakers and not on my

01:14:55   in-ear headphones.

01:14:56   I always edit on headphones.

01:15:00   I decided, I do some, I mean, I'm also in a space by myself.

01:15:05   I can turn it up pretty loud when I'm looking for noises

01:15:08   and all of that, but I think I found that I obsessed

01:15:12   a little too much on the headphones,

01:15:14   but I sometimes do edit on headphones.

01:15:15   - What I'll do sometimes is if it's a long show

01:15:18   and I'm doing like a full listen through,

01:15:20   I will get the audio sounding right on headphones,

01:15:24   then I will switch to speakers

01:15:26   because it's more comfortable if you're sitting down

01:15:29   editing something for three or four hours. I will just make sure I've got the audio levels

01:15:33   correct, I've got the EQ correct, and then I'll switch over to my speakers. Sometimes

01:15:38   I might play a video game or something whilst I'm editing and if I'm just listening for

01:15:41   something and that would do me well.

01:15:46   Okay.

01:15:47   Danny wanted to know, will the USB keyboard or Apple USB keyboard work on iPad Pros using

01:15:54   the powered lightning USB dongle. Jason, do you know? Do USB keyboards, are they even

01:16:00   noticed by this dongle?

01:16:02   Yeah, USB keyboards will work with the old one that isn't powered.

01:16:05   Okay, there you go.

01:16:07   So most keyboards don't require that much power, and so they just work. I used my crazy

01:16:13   clicky mechanical keyboard on the iPad Pro with the old USB dongle, and it worked fine.

01:16:22   So I'm sure you can. I didn't try it again, but it worked on the old one. I'm sure it

01:16:27   works on the new one.

01:16:28   I haven't been able to get my hands on one of those yet either. That was one of those

01:16:31   powered USB thingamajigs. I just want to play around with that. I think there's a lot of

01:16:37   interesting stuff going on there.

01:16:39   And Rob wanted to know, "Does the 29 watt USB-C to lightning charger not charge things

01:16:45   other than the iPad Pro or just not as fast?"

01:16:48   I have one of those now.

01:16:49   Oh, nice.

01:16:50   I bought one. It charges everything. But it's the iPad Pro that it charges and only the

01:16:56   big one that it charges quickly.

01:16:57   The 12.9-inch iPad Pro has in its lightning connector circuitry support for a higher amount

01:17:05   of power intake. And it is glorious. And so if you want, it's that model. And it's not

01:17:14   a new charger because it's the charger that they use on the MacBook. But now there's the

01:17:18   USB to lightning cable that works and it'll charge, this is true with all the lightning

01:17:24   stuff, it'll charge on anything but if the device can accept more power it will charge

01:17:29   faster and in that case you're getting a super fast charge.

01:17:32   I've seen quite a few people complain and say that this should have been the charger

01:17:36   that came in the box with the iPad Pro. I actually disagree with that simply because

01:17:45   It would have been more difficult in my setup to then have another cable with a different

01:17:50   connector as the standard one.

01:17:53   Because now I have, which I'm very happy I have, a two meter lightning cable.

01:17:59   So I can keep that in my bag for when I travel because I have one of those Anker 5 USB hub

01:18:06   things.

01:18:07   So when I go into a hotel I have more than enough USBs for me and a companion, you know

01:18:12   whoever's staying in the hotel room with me.

01:18:15   I wouldn't have wanted to then have to also bring the USB-C adapter for my iPad Pro.

01:18:21   So I now have a lovely long cable which I'm very happy that I have.

01:18:24   It works with any lightning cable but I like the long one because it is great to have that.

01:18:30   I think having to then have to worry about this USB-C one as well would have been just

01:18:35   an extra frustration.

01:18:37   So I think they made the right choice with the way that they did it.

01:18:41   But I'm now happy that this thing exists and it works and I get this super fast charger

01:18:44   me a bit. That's great stuff. So there we go. That's it.

01:18:51   That's it. We did it. We did it. We did it again. We're so great at doing this show.

01:18:57   And you're back next week? You're not traveling anywhere next week?

01:18:59   Not next week, no. All right. I'm traveling somewhere next week,

01:19:03   but I'll be here anyway. I'll be on the podcast next Monday from the desert. Back in the desert.

01:19:08   I'll be back in the desert again. Yeah. Yeah. So get ready for some air conditioning

01:19:12   and some heating up out there in the desert.

01:19:16   You see that's when I'll tweak your audio.

01:19:18   Yes you will, it's a great example where the conditions there, even if I bring my microphone

01:19:23   and mixer and everything, the room is very different and so it'll be a different, and

01:19:29   I usually talk quieter because I'm trying not to echo in an echoey room.

01:19:34   So there you go.

01:19:35   If you want to find out show notes for this week, you can find them in your app of choice

01:19:38   or you can go to relay.fm/upgrades/83.

01:19:42   Thanks again to our great sponsors, the people over at MailRoute, Squarespace and FreshBooks

01:19:48   for helping support this week's show.

01:19:52   We'll be back next time as we said.

01:19:54   If you want to find Jason's work, including his iPad Pro review which will be going up

01:19:58   shortly I expect before the next episode, yes, head on over to SixColors.com and you'll

01:20:04   find that there.

01:20:05   If you would like to find me online, head on over to Twitter.

01:20:09   I am @imike.

01:20:10   I M Y K E.

01:20:11   Jason is at JSNL, JSN-E-double-L.

01:20:15   Thank you so much for listening.

01:20:16   We'll be back next time.

01:20:17   Until then, say goodbye, Jason.

01:20:19   Aloha.

01:20:20   That's how it went.

01:20:21   (upbeat music)

01:20:24   [ Music ]